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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:02,829 --> 00:01:06,061 What would happen if the Orcs captured Frodo and got the ring? 2 00:01:06,667 --> 00:01:08,863 - Felix. - They'd have done bad things with it. 3 00:01:08,969 --> 00:01:10,747 And what sort of bad things would they have done? 4 00:01:10,771 --> 00:01:13,605 - They'd have killed Gandalf. - They'd have thrown him in the fire. 5 00:01:13,674 --> 00:01:16,269 He can survive fire. Fire can't get him. 6 00:01:16,343 --> 00:01:19,745 Sir, sir. They'd have captured the world and made everyone their slave. 7 00:01:19,846 --> 00:01:21,958 Now, would it be a good thing to be a slave of the Orcs? 8 00:01:21,982 --> 00:01:24,679 - No. - Why is being made a slave a bad thing? 9 00:01:24,785 --> 00:01:27,425 Because you don't get no money and slaves have to work all the time 10 00:01:27,521 --> 00:01:28,921 and don't get no holidays. 11 00:01:28,989 --> 00:01:31,549 That's right. Now, what happens if you have to work all the time 12 00:01:31,625 --> 00:01:33,685 and don't get any holidays? Molly. 13 00:01:34,027 --> 00:01:35,962 - You get tired out. - You certainly do. 14 00:01:36,029 --> 00:01:37,998 It means you don't have any freedom. 15 00:01:38,532 --> 00:01:41,229 Now, what is freedom? Freya. 16 00:01:41,301 --> 00:01:43,146 When you can go out to shops to buy what you want 17 00:01:43,170 --> 00:01:44,490 and go out to play when you want. 18 00:01:44,571 --> 00:01:47,632 That's right. Freedom is when we can decide what to do or buy, 19 00:01:47,708 --> 00:01:48,835 where to go and when. 20 00:01:48,909 --> 00:01:51,845 Freedom is the right to choose for yourself. Molly. 21 00:01:52,112 --> 00:01:53,740 Are there slaves now? 22 00:01:53,847 --> 00:01:56,007 Well, there are different sorts of slaves in the world. 23 00:01:56,149 --> 00:01:59,517 You can be a slave to television, or to work, or to food. 24 00:02:01,688 --> 00:02:03,316 Are they Orcs, sir? 25 00:02:03,490 --> 00:02:05,891 Well, they wouldn't like to be called that, Felix. 26 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,329 But they can take away your freedom. 27 00:02:09,062 --> 00:02:12,794 You be looking at your worksheets, questions one to five, 28 00:02:12,866 --> 00:02:15,301 and be going on with the section about Roman slaves. 29 00:02:35,889 --> 00:02:36,913 Cuffs on. 30 00:02:37,224 --> 00:02:38,988 Come on. Your head up. 31 00:02:52,973 --> 00:02:56,137 Sir Ian, we're about to see Sir Monty. 32 00:02:56,810 --> 00:02:57,834 Mmm. 33 00:02:58,345 --> 00:03:02,749 We'd prefer not to have to remind him about the criminal court reporter, sir. 34 00:03:03,917 --> 00:03:04,941 Yes. 35 00:03:05,786 --> 00:03:07,982 Of course, sir. If I have to, I will. 36 00:03:08,555 --> 00:03:09,555 Ok, bye-bye. 37 00:03:11,358 --> 00:03:13,486 You can tell Sir Ian that I appreciate 38 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,552 the court reporter being posted to Cardiff, 39 00:03:15,629 --> 00:03:19,066 but I don't want Deed on my circuit. Not again. 40 00:03:19,166 --> 00:03:21,965 But we thought you and Mr Justice Deed were reconciled, sir. 41 00:03:22,035 --> 00:03:24,402 Oh, there's a rapprochement. We are brethren, after all. 42 00:03:24,471 --> 00:03:25,632 But that's as far as it goes. 43 00:03:25,806 --> 00:03:27,866 Unfortunately, neither the presider on the northern, 44 00:03:27,974 --> 00:03:29,334 nor the one on the western circuit 45 00:03:29,409 --> 00:03:31,037 wants Sir John Deed sitting there. 46 00:03:31,111 --> 00:03:33,410 Well, that's hardly my problem, Mr James. 47 00:03:33,613 --> 00:03:37,550 Mr Justice Deed has many fine qualities, Sir Monty. 48 00:03:37,651 --> 00:03:40,917 Oh, then I'm surprised you're having such difficulties placing him. 49 00:03:40,987 --> 00:03:43,320 Are all the presiders resisting him? 50 00:03:43,390 --> 00:03:46,019 Sir Ian thought he'd be best off back in Sussex 51 00:03:46,126 --> 00:03:49,153 because of the problems with one of the circuit judges there. 52 00:03:49,496 --> 00:03:50,623 Judge Bromford. 53 00:03:51,531 --> 00:03:54,831 He's had 37 judgements appealed in the last two years. 54 00:03:55,068 --> 00:03:58,061 - His cases are piling up. - Yes. 55 00:03:58,572 --> 00:04:02,634 Yes, I suppose we could have the lower judge's cases 56 00:04:02,709 --> 00:04:03,802 heard by Deed. 57 00:04:04,277 --> 00:04:05,609 That will put him in his place. 58 00:04:05,679 --> 00:04:09,047 He could hardly get into trouble with such uncontroversial cases, 59 00:04:09,116 --> 00:04:10,116 Sir Monty. 60 00:04:19,526 --> 00:04:21,893 Look who I found skulking outside. 61 00:04:21,962 --> 00:04:24,158 I wasn't skulking, Vera. I never skulk. 62 00:04:26,633 --> 00:04:29,398 John. You're coming back to Sussex. 63 00:04:29,970 --> 00:04:32,565 Well, I daresay neither of us is pleased about that, Monty. 64 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:35,074 No, perhaps we should try to put the past behind us. 65 00:04:35,175 --> 00:04:36,175 Is that possible? 66 00:04:36,476 --> 00:04:38,308 I've just been looking through the list. 67 00:04:38,945 --> 00:04:42,040 I can't see anything that could be seriously contentious. 68 00:04:42,249 --> 00:04:44,912 I don't exactly court contention, you know. 69 00:04:44,985 --> 00:04:47,477 It seems to find you nonetheless. 70 00:04:47,654 --> 00:04:50,681 You know, there are a number of burglaries you could hear. 71 00:04:50,757 --> 00:04:53,090 Possession of class-A drugs. 72 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,688 Domestic violence. There are a number of those. 73 00:04:56,763 --> 00:04:58,857 A purple judge could hear those equally well. 74 00:04:58,965 --> 00:05:01,662 Yes, but they're coming your way. 75 00:05:03,470 --> 00:05:04,995 What are you hearing? 76 00:05:05,105 --> 00:05:09,065 Oh, attempted murder and robbery. 77 00:05:09,242 --> 00:05:12,406 Man's been on the run for years. Police have only just caught him. 78 00:05:12,479 --> 00:05:15,039 What about the schoolboy who raped his teacher? 79 00:05:15,115 --> 00:05:18,483 - Well... - Oh, Monty. We're hearing the rape. 80 00:05:18,552 --> 00:05:21,954 Yes. No, it's not ready yet, John. 81 00:05:22,055 --> 00:05:24,991 Well, I have a judicial review to get out of the way first. 82 00:05:25,826 --> 00:05:28,193 Unless Vera wants to hear it. 83 00:05:46,446 --> 00:05:48,278 Anything improved with the list? 84 00:05:48,348 --> 00:05:51,284 Not unless you think embezzlement's an improvement, Judge. 85 00:05:51,451 --> 00:05:52,475 I don't. 86 00:05:53,787 --> 00:05:55,756 See what you can come up with, Coop. 87 00:05:56,690 --> 00:05:58,488 Or I might go back to London. 88 00:06:01,528 --> 00:06:04,794 - Mrs Mills return my call yet? - No, not on this phone. 89 00:06:12,572 --> 00:06:16,202 Hello, this is Jo Mills. Please leave a message and I'll call you back. 90 00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:20,502 Jo, this is John. I'm back in Sussex, and, um... 91 00:06:22,716 --> 00:06:25,652 It seems rather lonely without Charlie down here. 92 00:06:26,119 --> 00:06:29,180 Um, wondering how the appeal's going. 93 00:06:30,156 --> 00:06:32,352 I'll talk to you later. 94 00:06:39,432 --> 00:06:41,731 Denny, I think it went well for us in there. 95 00:06:41,801 --> 00:06:44,600 I didn't hear them say, "The conviction's unsafe, Mr McDowell. 96 00:06:44,671 --> 00:06:46,367 - "You're free to go." - Yet. 97 00:06:46,573 --> 00:06:49,065 Denny, they now know how corrupt those policemen were. 98 00:06:57,117 --> 00:07:00,178 Mrs Mills? I'm Kerry Ramsay. I'm a solicitor. 99 00:07:00,287 --> 00:07:02,381 Yes. I won't be taking on Terry Rogers' defence. 100 00:07:02,489 --> 00:07:04,289 I think your clerk was hoping to persuade you. 101 00:07:04,357 --> 00:07:05,768 I told him I'm thinking of taking a sabbatical. 102 00:07:05,792 --> 00:07:08,193 Well, yeah, he told me, to spend some time with 103 00:07:08,295 --> 00:07:09,422 your adopted son. 104 00:07:09,562 --> 00:07:10,642 It hasn't got that far yet. 105 00:07:10,730 --> 00:07:12,926 Well, would you at least read the papers? 106 00:07:12,999 --> 00:07:15,764 There hardly seems any point, as I won't be taking it on. 107 00:07:15,835 --> 00:07:17,394 The case involves two detectives 108 00:07:17,470 --> 00:07:19,510 at the heart of the case you're currently appealing, 109 00:07:19,539 --> 00:07:21,565 Matthew Stone and Troy Romano. 110 00:07:21,675 --> 00:07:23,906 It can't. They're retired. Romano went to prison. 111 00:07:24,010 --> 00:07:26,912 Yes. Terry Rogers was arrested 16 years ago. 112 00:07:27,013 --> 00:07:29,539 He escaped. He'd been on the run until his arrest at school. 113 00:07:31,451 --> 00:07:32,451 I'll have a look. 114 00:07:33,219 --> 00:07:34,219 Okay. 115 00:07:57,010 --> 00:08:00,310 Michael was a bit upset earlier. He thought you weren't coming. 116 00:08:00,613 --> 00:08:02,878 I'm sorry. Something unexpected came up. 117 00:08:03,283 --> 00:08:05,275 He's having difficulty settling down. 118 00:08:05,652 --> 00:08:07,730 We thought the foster mother he went to would settle him. 119 00:08:07,754 --> 00:08:10,588 Yeah. I blame myself. I shouldn't have tried walking away. 120 00:08:10,724 --> 00:08:12,989 He'll be troublesome if you do take him on. 121 00:08:13,693 --> 00:08:15,127 I'll get him. 122 00:08:27,774 --> 00:08:30,642 Hello, Michael. Sorry I'm late. I had some urgent work. 123 00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:33,236 I always take on far too much. Bet you don't. 124 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,091 I'll bet you do everything that you plan to do. 125 00:08:35,115 --> 00:08:37,141 Adults are so stupid. We always try... 126 00:08:37,250 --> 00:08:38,250 It's all right. 127 00:08:40,153 --> 00:08:41,951 Would you like to go out for some tea? 128 00:08:42,055 --> 00:08:43,899 We could go out. Your house mother said that we... 129 00:08:43,923 --> 00:08:46,859 Look, she's not my mother! My mum's dead! 130 00:08:49,929 --> 00:08:51,929 No, it's all right, it's all right, it's all right. 131 00:08:52,098 --> 00:08:54,590 It's all right. It's all right. It's all right. 132 00:09:11,484 --> 00:09:13,476 If you take Michael on, it won't be easy. 133 00:09:14,254 --> 00:09:16,587 He's got some serious emotional problems. 134 00:09:16,723 --> 00:09:19,955 Yes. The biggest of them seems to be his not having a mother. 135 00:09:20,060 --> 00:09:24,191 Mrs Tredaway, can you even imagine what that must be like for an 8-year-old? 136 00:09:24,597 --> 00:09:26,725 I lost my mother at nine. 137 00:09:28,535 --> 00:09:29,535 I'm sorry. 138 00:09:30,970 --> 00:09:33,235 - Did you have a father? - Yeah. 139 00:09:33,673 --> 00:09:36,165 Yeah, that was some compensation, of course. 140 00:09:37,377 --> 00:09:39,505 Sometimes people come in and think all they have to do 141 00:09:39,612 --> 00:09:40,773 is offer the child love. 142 00:09:41,014 --> 00:09:44,109 It is a big move in the right direction, Mrs Tredaway. 143 00:09:44,918 --> 00:09:48,355 Michael was put with two very nice foster parents. 144 00:09:48,922 --> 00:09:50,652 What if he gets equally upset with you 145 00:09:50,723 --> 00:09:54,251 and starts to smash up your lovely home or starts to steal your things? 146 00:09:54,327 --> 00:09:57,161 You talk as though you don't want people adopting children. 147 00:09:57,230 --> 00:09:59,699 You didn't answer the question, Mrs Mills. 148 00:10:02,735 --> 00:10:05,398 - Perhaps they didn't handle him right. - No. 149 00:10:06,172 --> 00:10:07,834 No, they're very experienced. 150 00:10:08,808 --> 00:10:12,040 What we'd prefer not to have happen is you coming back two week later 151 00:10:12,112 --> 00:10:13,637 to say you can't cope. 152 00:10:13,713 --> 00:10:15,682 Well, I might give it three weeks. 153 00:10:17,083 --> 00:10:18,083 Hmm. 154 00:10:19,853 --> 00:10:22,254 I did bring up two sons without their father. 155 00:10:23,556 --> 00:10:25,354 Well, he will need a lot of input. 156 00:10:26,159 --> 00:10:27,991 How's that gonna stack up with your career? 157 00:10:28,094 --> 00:10:30,825 I'm prepared to give up work to take care of Michael. 158 00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:33,092 - Is that gonna be a problem? - What, financially? 159 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:36,233 No. I can still write articles, 160 00:10:36,336 --> 00:10:37,429 be a consultant. 161 00:10:37,770 --> 00:10:39,570 Well, sometimes stepping off the career ladder 162 00:10:39,606 --> 00:10:40,938 can cause enormous resentment. 163 00:10:41,007 --> 00:10:42,976 I have thought about this. 164 00:10:44,811 --> 00:10:48,407 Michael is obviously suffering and I believe that I can help change that. 165 00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:52,412 Well, what I have to advise the selection committee on 166 00:10:52,485 --> 00:10:54,249 and what I want to be quite sure of 167 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,755 is your reason for wanting to adopt. 168 00:10:56,856 --> 00:10:58,449 Especially as you're on your own. 169 00:10:59,659 --> 00:11:02,238 We have to be certain you're not trying to replace something missing 170 00:11:02,262 --> 00:11:04,356 from your own life 171 00:11:04,430 --> 00:11:06,695 such as your children going off to university. 172 00:11:25,251 --> 00:11:26,310 Oh, gosh. 173 00:11:26,619 --> 00:11:27,619 You okay? 174 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,760 Need to talk to you about the Denny McDowell appeal. 175 00:11:31,925 --> 00:11:34,053 I've only left you about 93 messages. 176 00:11:34,761 --> 00:11:36,071 Do you want some food? It's takeaway. 177 00:11:36,095 --> 00:11:37,173 If you've got some to spare. 178 00:11:37,197 --> 00:11:39,393 Yeah, sure. Go in. I'll get you a plate. 179 00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:44,136 I'm not convinced I'm making our case for Denny. 180 00:11:44,637 --> 00:11:47,149 If you're not convinced, how are you gonna convince the Appeal Court? 181 00:11:47,173 --> 00:11:48,973 You could give me a little encouragement here. 182 00:11:49,042 --> 00:11:50,042 I did. 183 00:11:50,143 --> 00:11:52,183 I told you I thought the man was a liar and a thief, 184 00:11:52,212 --> 00:11:55,182 but that I thought he was innocent of this particular crime. 185 00:11:57,183 --> 00:11:58,947 What are you arguing? 186 00:11:59,919 --> 00:12:03,856 That the conviction is unsafe both because of the DNA reprofiling, 187 00:12:03,923 --> 00:12:06,324 the known corrupt record of two of the detectives involved 188 00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:09,692 and the fact that the informant they used was a professional. 189 00:12:10,196 --> 00:12:13,166 It sounds like you've got a pretty good fresh evidence case. 190 00:12:14,434 --> 00:12:18,565 Have you looked at Their Lordships' opinion in Pendleton 2002? 191 00:12:19,205 --> 00:12:21,265 I wish you were doing this one. 192 00:12:23,243 --> 00:12:24,609 What's wrong, Jo? 193 00:12:27,180 --> 00:12:28,180 Don't know. 194 00:12:29,616 --> 00:12:30,616 Jo. 195 00:12:31,584 --> 00:12:32,677 Doesn't matter. 196 00:12:41,094 --> 00:12:43,063 How's Charlie doing in your chambers? 197 00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:44,688 She works hard. 198 00:12:48,401 --> 00:12:50,768 The fact is, I've made up my mind to take on Michael Hulsey, 199 00:12:50,837 --> 00:12:52,499 if they'll have me. 200 00:12:52,905 --> 00:12:54,874 What happened to the decent foster parents? 201 00:12:54,974 --> 00:12:57,239 Why is it that no one wants me to do this? 202 00:12:57,777 --> 00:13:00,679 I'm just asking. Are you going to give up a brilliant career? 203 00:13:00,780 --> 00:13:03,158 - It's a sabbatical. - 'Cause you could be a judge next year. 204 00:13:03,182 --> 00:13:04,293 I thought that was all you wanted. 205 00:13:04,317 --> 00:13:06,262 That seems to be what you want. I don't know any more. 206 00:13:06,286 --> 00:13:08,050 Jo, anybody can be a mother. 207 00:13:08,121 --> 00:13:09,885 So speaks the perfect father? 208 00:13:10,957 --> 00:13:12,858 It's stupid to give away what you've got. 209 00:13:12,925 --> 00:13:13,925 Yes, isn't it? 210 00:13:14,327 --> 00:13:16,922 To guide a damaged little life into some 211 00:13:16,996 --> 00:13:19,158 harbour of warmth and affection. 212 00:13:19,265 --> 00:13:21,105 I've got no problem with what you've described. 213 00:13:21,167 --> 00:13:22,795 Just let somebody else do it. 214 00:13:35,281 --> 00:13:36,361 Jo, you all right? 215 00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:39,876 You look like you've seen a ghost. 216 00:13:39,986 --> 00:13:41,420 Yes, I think I have. 217 00:13:42,689 --> 00:13:43,918 Who are they? 218 00:13:45,224 --> 00:13:47,716 The one on the right is a very corrupt ex-Detective Sergeant 219 00:13:47,794 --> 00:13:49,558 named Troy Romano. 220 00:13:49,662 --> 00:13:50,873 The other one's probably just as corrupt. 221 00:13:50,897 --> 00:13:53,765 They're the ones who arrested Denny McDowell. 222 00:13:53,866 --> 00:13:55,835 Well, what are they doing here? 223 00:13:56,369 --> 00:13:59,430 Checking their corrupt efforts aren't overturned, I expect. 224 00:14:07,447 --> 00:14:10,576 I would urge Your Lordships to give particular weight in this appeal 225 00:14:10,650 --> 00:14:13,916 to the new evidence revealed by subsequent DNA profiling. 226 00:14:14,420 --> 00:14:17,083 It strongly suggests that the appellant, Mr McDowell, 227 00:14:17,156 --> 00:14:20,354 was not at the scene of the crime as the spent cigarette 228 00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:23,953 had previously and erroneously indicated. 229 00:14:24,063 --> 00:14:26,259 Whilst there's no doubt that the cigarette was there. 230 00:14:26,332 --> 00:14:28,563 The new DNA profiling clearly shows 231 00:14:28,634 --> 00:14:31,433 that it wasn't, in fact, smoked by him. 232 00:14:32,839 --> 00:14:36,332 In the Queen and Pendleton, 2002, Their Lordships held, 233 00:14:36,676 --> 00:14:38,975 "Where fresh evidence is admitted, 234 00:14:39,078 --> 00:14:41,980 "the Court of Appeal has to make a judgement 235 00:14:42,081 --> 00:14:44,778 "whether the conviction is unsafe." 236 00:14:44,851 --> 00:14:48,049 I would further remind Your Lordships, should you need reminding, 237 00:14:48,321 --> 00:14:50,199 that the proven dishonesty of the arresting officers 238 00:14:50,223 --> 00:14:53,557 undermines their credibility as key witnesses in the original trial. 239 00:14:54,093 --> 00:14:55,891 Detective Sergeant Troy Romano 240 00:14:55,962 --> 00:14:59,524 had subsequently been arrested and successfully prosecuted 241 00:14:59,599 --> 00:15:01,795 for perverting the course of justice. 242 00:15:02,335 --> 00:15:04,429 He was sent to prison for five years. 243 00:15:04,537 --> 00:15:07,996 Are we to assume all Mr Romano's arrests 244 00:15:08,107 --> 00:15:10,941 to be tainted because of one black mark, Mrs Mills? 245 00:15:12,612 --> 00:15:13,944 I would point Your Lordships 246 00:15:14,013 --> 00:15:17,211 to the most recent European human rights jurisprudence. 247 00:15:17,784 --> 00:15:20,049 It urges that all convictions 248 00:15:20,119 --> 00:15:23,612 where policemen have subsequently been prosecuted 249 00:15:23,689 --> 00:15:25,157 should be re-examined. 250 00:15:26,726 --> 00:15:29,161 Pendleton suggests, "It's wise to test 251 00:15:29,262 --> 00:15:32,255 "whether the new evidence, if given at trial, 252 00:15:32,698 --> 00:15:36,965 "might reasonably have affected the decision of the jury to convict." 253 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:41,703 Thank you. Thank you, Mrs Mills. 254 00:15:41,774 --> 00:15:44,767 There's quite a lot of law involved here. 255 00:15:45,778 --> 00:15:50,273 For that reason, we will retire to consider our finding. 256 00:15:50,383 --> 00:15:51,383 All rise. 257 00:15:55,588 --> 00:15:57,955 - What do you think, Jo? - I haven't a clue. 258 00:15:58,057 --> 00:15:59,355 He's your granddad. 259 00:15:59,459 --> 00:16:01,979 Sometimes it's hard to remember that when he's sitting up there. 260 00:16:05,164 --> 00:16:08,464 I'm not minded to say that the conviction is unsafe. 261 00:16:08,534 --> 00:16:10,332 If we are satisfied, 262 00:16:10,403 --> 00:16:13,999 despite any irregularities in the trial 263 00:16:14,106 --> 00:16:16,837 or any new evidence appearing subsequently, 264 00:16:16,943 --> 00:16:19,412 that the conviction is still safe, 265 00:16:19,979 --> 00:16:22,039 then we should dismiss the appeal. 266 00:16:23,416 --> 00:16:26,875 Where I hesitate over the safety of the conviction 267 00:16:26,986 --> 00:16:30,514 is on considering the records of the police officers who were involved. 268 00:16:30,656 --> 00:16:32,488 Only one of them behaved incorrectly, Monty. 269 00:16:32,558 --> 00:16:35,426 We might assume that the others were also tainted. 270 00:16:35,495 --> 00:16:38,954 Oh, it was one incident in an otherwise exemplary career. 271 00:16:39,065 --> 00:16:40,590 Why should we assume otherwise? 272 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,397 One has to look at the law of probability, Joe. 273 00:16:43,503 --> 00:16:46,496 Yet so many get away with it and then sue the police. 274 00:16:46,806 --> 00:16:49,935 I'm beginning to feel like that Dutch boy with this finger in the dike. 275 00:16:51,177 --> 00:16:53,169 Well, what do you think, Michael? 276 00:16:54,347 --> 00:16:56,475 Well, I wasn't convinced by the new evidence 277 00:16:56,983 --> 00:16:58,451 or the argument, Monty. 278 00:16:58,518 --> 00:17:01,818 We can't possibly declare open season on the police service. 279 00:17:02,088 --> 00:17:05,547 Convicted criminals will be queuing up to draw on the public purse 280 00:17:05,658 --> 00:17:08,526 and further stretch the resources of the courts. 281 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:16,326 I'll make a call about it. 282 00:17:19,038 --> 00:17:21,166 I suppose you think that's a wonderful result. 283 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,985 - What are you talking about? - You know very well. 284 00:17:23,009 --> 00:17:24,620 I'm gonna go on working on the McDowell appeal 285 00:17:24,644 --> 00:17:26,806 and I will prove that you fabricated the evidence. 286 00:17:26,879 --> 00:17:28,814 Well, good luck. 287 00:17:28,881 --> 00:17:30,816 - Why don't you let it go, Mrs Mills? - No. 288 00:17:30,883 --> 00:17:32,681 You will not get away with your corruption. 289 00:17:32,785 --> 00:17:35,516 - Well, we just did, didn't we? - Troy! 290 00:17:36,455 --> 00:17:37,889 Look at her. 291 00:17:39,725 --> 00:17:41,921 She'd like me to take a pop at her, wouldn't she? 292 00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:50,365 Wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of him. 293 00:17:50,469 --> 00:17:52,438 I will find a way of potting him. 294 00:17:59,412 --> 00:18:00,539 Mrs Mills. 295 00:18:01,180 --> 00:18:02,273 Thanks, Coop. 296 00:18:02,381 --> 00:18:04,816 Your directions hearing is still waiting. 297 00:18:04,884 --> 00:18:06,876 Yes, I know. Thank you. 298 00:18:10,222 --> 00:18:12,123 Is she cross about something? 299 00:18:12,758 --> 00:18:15,819 - You should be elsewhere. - I won't take up much of your time. 300 00:18:16,896 --> 00:18:19,058 I read the papers in the Terry Rogers defence. 301 00:18:19,131 --> 00:18:22,124 DS Romano and his colleagues were deeply implicated in corruption. 302 00:18:22,201 --> 00:18:23,726 Only according to the defendant. 303 00:18:23,803 --> 00:18:26,170 No, I believe it. It all makes such sense. 304 00:18:26,238 --> 00:18:28,707 You know what they were like when the arrested Denny McDowell. 305 00:18:28,774 --> 00:18:30,743 The Rogers arrest is exactly similar. 306 00:18:31,377 --> 00:18:33,744 Does this mean you're not taking a sabbatical, Jo? 307 00:18:35,982 --> 00:18:38,160 I'm not giving up adopting Michael, if that's what you mean. 308 00:18:38,184 --> 00:18:39,914 I know it's the right thing to do. 309 00:18:40,653 --> 00:18:41,653 I do, John. 310 00:18:41,721 --> 00:18:43,999 How do you think you're gonna manage to look after this boy 311 00:18:44,023 --> 00:18:46,652 and still run a case you think reeks of injustice? 312 00:18:46,726 --> 00:18:49,218 - You managed all right with Charlie. - It's different. 313 00:18:49,295 --> 00:18:51,340 Michael will need a lot of attention, a lot of support. 314 00:18:51,364 --> 00:18:52,559 And Charlie didn't? 315 00:19:11,951 --> 00:19:12,951 Mrs Mills. 316 00:19:29,201 --> 00:19:30,201 Jo Mills. 317 00:19:30,302 --> 00:19:32,328 This is Sue Bush, Michael's house mother. 318 00:19:32,405 --> 00:19:33,405 Hello. 319 00:19:33,506 --> 00:19:36,567 Michael was asking if you're coming to see him after school today. 320 00:19:36,642 --> 00:19:37,905 Yes, I'm gonna try. 321 00:19:38,911 --> 00:19:41,142 Mrs Mills... Jo, 322 00:19:41,213 --> 00:19:44,775 I don't wanna be pushy, but you have to say one way or the other. 323 00:19:45,017 --> 00:19:47,851 These children have enough uncertainty in their lives. 324 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,287 I'm sorry. Of course I'll be there. 325 00:19:50,389 --> 00:19:51,482 I have to go. 326 00:19:57,096 --> 00:19:59,224 How'd you come to be teaching? 327 00:19:59,298 --> 00:20:00,527 Did you qualify? 328 00:20:02,068 --> 00:20:04,094 No, it was purely by accident. 329 00:20:06,205 --> 00:20:09,175 After I went on the run, I fetched up in Devon. 330 00:20:09,241 --> 00:20:11,176 Did a bit of casual work on the boats. 331 00:20:12,445 --> 00:20:14,175 I was always quite good on water. 332 00:20:16,215 --> 00:20:18,184 Someone I was working with 333 00:20:18,250 --> 00:20:21,846 asked if I wanted to help at a canoeing club on the Dart. 334 00:20:22,088 --> 00:20:25,923 It wasn't paid work, but they were nice people. 335 00:20:29,028 --> 00:20:32,556 I suppose if it had been paid, I might have just drifted back onto the drugs. 336 00:20:32,665 --> 00:20:34,258 Had you been clean all the while? 337 00:20:36,001 --> 00:20:37,001 Yeah. 338 00:20:38,204 --> 00:20:39,934 Since being in police custody. 339 00:20:42,174 --> 00:20:43,574 A very sobering experience, 340 00:20:43,642 --> 00:20:46,043 being arrested for robbery and attempted murder. 341 00:20:50,216 --> 00:20:52,082 I was good with canoes. 342 00:20:53,185 --> 00:20:55,664 Then one of the organisers said he was starting up a club at the school 343 00:20:55,688 --> 00:20:57,316 and asked if I wanted to help out. 344 00:20:57,423 --> 00:20:59,483 That led to some paid work there. 345 00:21:00,626 --> 00:21:02,720 There were no cheques back in those days. 346 00:21:03,863 --> 00:21:05,729 Working with decent people made me realise 347 00:21:05,831 --> 00:21:07,891 what a waste all that other scene had been. 348 00:21:08,734 --> 00:21:12,136 - Where had you been living? - In hostels. 349 00:21:13,339 --> 00:21:14,773 Sometimes I slept rough. 350 00:21:15,741 --> 00:21:17,953 I was making hardly anything when I worked on the canoeing. 351 00:21:17,977 --> 00:21:19,309 Wasn't that a problem, 352 00:21:19,779 --> 00:21:22,943 mixing with normal people at the club and the school? 353 00:21:23,949 --> 00:21:24,949 Yeah. 354 00:21:26,786 --> 00:21:28,880 I tried to keep myself clean and tidy. 355 00:21:30,089 --> 00:21:32,854 I used to go to the washroom in the station. 356 00:21:33,292 --> 00:21:37,457 Then one of the older teachers cottoned on when she caught me 357 00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:39,074 washing my clothes in the school cloak room 358 00:21:39,098 --> 00:21:41,124 and drying them on the radiator. 359 00:21:41,734 --> 00:21:43,293 I said I got wet in the river. 360 00:21:43,369 --> 00:21:46,066 She said, "You must have had a lot of clothes on then." 361 00:21:50,976 --> 00:21:52,808 She gave me a room in her place. 362 00:21:56,949 --> 00:21:59,783 Even gave me a key so I could come and go when I liked. 363 00:22:06,325 --> 00:22:09,318 I'd been on the run two-and-a-half years then. 364 00:22:13,933 --> 00:22:16,801 You have no idea what it's like, Mrs Mills, to be finally 365 00:22:18,204 --> 00:22:19,968 treated decently, like you're 366 00:22:21,874 --> 00:22:24,002 a human being that has some worth. 367 00:22:28,848 --> 00:22:31,841 I knew then that nothing would drag me back to my former life. 368 00:22:32,618 --> 00:22:34,746 How did you come to be caught by the police? 369 00:22:38,791 --> 00:22:39,791 I had... 370 00:22:42,494 --> 00:22:44,895 I'd been thinking a lot about my daughter. 371 00:22:49,335 --> 00:22:51,497 It was her 18th birthday. I, uh... 372 00:22:52,738 --> 00:22:55,207 I tried to contact her. I knew it was risky, 373 00:22:56,609 --> 00:22:57,609 but I had to. 374 00:23:03,182 --> 00:23:07,142 I felt really bad about what I'd done to her and her mum. 375 00:23:18,864 --> 00:23:23,234 It was a real shock when I turned up. 376 00:23:27,706 --> 00:23:31,143 Katie couldn't talk to me. She just went off to her room. 377 00:23:34,013 --> 00:23:36,005 Must have been the shock. 378 00:23:37,149 --> 00:23:40,347 Cheryl had done a great job of bringing her up. 379 00:23:40,419 --> 00:23:43,014 Your wife had divorced you while you were on the run? 380 00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:45,250 Yeah, she should have done it before then. 381 00:23:46,859 --> 00:23:49,090 I was just dragging her through all my rubbish. 382 00:23:52,464 --> 00:23:53,830 Seeing them, I, um... 383 00:23:54,733 --> 00:23:58,170 I thought I could somehow be reconciled with my daughter. 384 00:23:58,270 --> 00:24:01,798 I even imagined I could get back together with Cheryl. 385 00:24:01,907 --> 00:24:03,876 So I thought about giving myself up. 386 00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:07,338 I'd read somewhere that 387 00:24:07,413 --> 00:24:10,315 you could approach the Director of Public Prosecutions 388 00:24:10,382 --> 00:24:13,181 and, based on the new life you'd been leading, negotiate your return. 389 00:24:14,687 --> 00:24:16,417 Did you do that? I didn't read it here. 390 00:24:16,488 --> 00:24:18,081 I did approach them. 391 00:24:19,124 --> 00:24:21,650 I just wanted so badly to be normal. 392 00:24:23,095 --> 00:24:26,293 They said that they would be interested in meeting with me 393 00:24:26,365 --> 00:24:28,163 to try and clear this case up. 394 00:24:29,635 --> 00:24:33,572 The next thing I knew, the police showed up. 395 00:24:38,811 --> 00:24:39,811 Why did you run? 396 00:24:41,981 --> 00:24:44,780 I don't know. I got scared. 397 00:24:47,052 --> 00:24:48,782 The DPP sent the police? 398 00:24:49,621 --> 00:24:50,680 I suppose. 399 00:24:51,690 --> 00:24:54,319 Doesn't make sense if they were negotiating with you. 400 00:24:56,829 --> 00:25:00,163 Or maybe the police were watching Cheryl's house and followed me. 401 00:25:00,265 --> 00:25:02,860 I doubt it. Not after 16 years. 402 00:25:02,935 --> 00:25:05,336 Possibly someone from the DPP betrayed you. 403 00:25:06,071 --> 00:25:07,164 Why was that, do you think? 404 00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:12,337 I don't know. 405 00:25:12,411 --> 00:25:14,011 Is there something you're not telling me? 406 00:25:15,647 --> 00:25:16,647 No. 407 00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:37,069 I am going to take on your case, Mr Rogers. 408 00:25:39,905 --> 00:25:41,516 I can't tell you what it means to him, Mrs Mills, 409 00:25:41,540 --> 00:25:43,270 having someone like you believe in him. 410 00:25:43,342 --> 00:25:46,176 There are holes in his case. Questions that need answering. 411 00:25:46,278 --> 00:25:49,442 He doesn't seem to have any evidence to corroborate his claims. 412 00:25:50,115 --> 00:25:52,380 We need someone to find the answers. 413 00:25:52,451 --> 00:25:54,195 There's an ex-policeman that we sometimes use, 414 00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:55,864 but I'm not sure he'd be right for something like this. 415 00:25:55,888 --> 00:25:58,483 There's a junior we can use in chambers, Charlie Deed. 416 00:25:58,590 --> 00:26:01,116 With luck, I'll knock this out at the pre-trial hearing. 417 00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:02,819 It'll mean a lot of work. 418 00:26:27,252 --> 00:26:30,017 Jo, this might do it. 419 00:26:31,390 --> 00:26:33,882 Since the Gladstone report in 1895, 420 00:26:33,992 --> 00:26:36,461 the aim of the prison system has been to encourage 421 00:26:36,528 --> 00:26:39,987 and assist prisoners to lead a good and useful life. 422 00:26:40,432 --> 00:26:44,096 Well, Terry Rogers has achieved that without the need for custody. 423 00:26:44,169 --> 00:26:45,169 Brilliant. 424 00:26:55,647 --> 00:26:57,445 You're going to be busy, Judge. 425 00:26:57,583 --> 00:27:01,350 Mr Justice Everard is going into hospital the day after tomorrow. 426 00:27:01,420 --> 00:27:03,480 Ooh. Anything serious? 427 00:27:03,589 --> 00:27:08,152 Well, word along the corridor is that it's a vasectomy. 428 00:27:08,227 --> 00:27:10,856 But his clerk said it was a hernia. 429 00:27:10,929 --> 00:27:11,929 Uh-huh. 430 00:27:12,297 --> 00:27:14,459 Anyway, he gave me this case. 431 00:27:14,733 --> 00:27:17,464 The 13-year-old who raped his teacher. 432 00:27:17,536 --> 00:27:18,731 It is ready? 433 00:27:18,837 --> 00:27:21,170 Not yet, Judge. They're awaiting reports. 434 00:27:22,741 --> 00:27:25,870 To stay at large and functioning for 16 years is, 435 00:27:25,944 --> 00:27:28,937 I hope you'll agree, my Lord, a remarkable achievement. 436 00:27:29,014 --> 00:27:32,178 Especially when this is done without resorting to crime. 437 00:27:32,584 --> 00:27:36,544 In addition, Mr Rogers has led an exemplary life. 438 00:27:36,855 --> 00:27:40,656 One to which many of us might aspire, much less those outside the law. 439 00:27:41,593 --> 00:27:43,255 It is for these reasons I argue 440 00:27:43,328 --> 00:27:46,196 that Terry Rogers should not now be on trial. 441 00:27:46,999 --> 00:27:50,458 He is a very different man from the one whom, it's alleged, 442 00:27:50,536 --> 00:27:52,505 committed this crime all those years ago. 443 00:27:52,571 --> 00:27:56,804 My Lord, I cannot emphasise "alleged" too strongly. 444 00:27:58,277 --> 00:28:01,145 One of the arresting officers in this case was a thoroughly bad lot 445 00:28:01,213 --> 00:28:04,308 and went to prison for corruption and perverting the course of justice. 446 00:28:04,383 --> 00:28:08,616 But the other three detectives involved have hitherto impeccable records, 447 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:09,779 do they not? 448 00:28:09,855 --> 00:28:12,586 The principle which underpins criminal justice 449 00:28:12,658 --> 00:28:15,560 is that everyone and anyone is capable of reforming, 450 00:28:15,627 --> 00:28:18,290 and having reformed, deserves a second chance. 451 00:28:18,397 --> 00:28:21,265 We would argue that Mr Rogers is a changed man 452 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,494 and deserves a second chance. 453 00:28:23,569 --> 00:28:26,300 The principle can only be adopted subsequent to dealing 454 00:28:26,371 --> 00:28:28,840 with the original index crime. 455 00:28:28,907 --> 00:28:31,376 Mr Rogers does not absolve himself of the crime 456 00:28:31,476 --> 00:28:34,002 simply by absconding for 16 years, 457 00:28:34,112 --> 00:28:37,105 however virtuous his behaviour during his flight from justice. 458 00:28:37,616 --> 00:28:41,178 Mr Rogers alleges that the detective who was convicted for corruption 459 00:28:41,253 --> 00:28:45,213 put a plastic bag over his head in order to force him to confess. 460 00:28:45,657 --> 00:28:49,617 This is exactly similar to the case where the detective was convicted. 461 00:28:49,761 --> 00:28:52,526 Well, then, doubtless you will bring that forward as evidence 462 00:28:52,631 --> 00:28:56,033 and argue it at Mr Rogers' trial. 463 00:28:56,101 --> 00:28:59,538 Now, are you ready for this case to be given a fixed date for trial? 464 00:28:59,938 --> 00:29:01,770 Would you hear an argument on public policy 465 00:29:01,873 --> 00:29:03,899 in the interests of justice for Mr Rogers? 466 00:29:03,976 --> 00:29:07,708 Not if it avoids taking responsibility for the original crime. 467 00:29:08,146 --> 00:29:10,115 Are you ready for trial? 468 00:29:10,215 --> 00:29:14,619 We are, my Lord. However, I would ask that you hear an application for bail. 469 00:29:14,786 --> 00:29:18,553 Mr Rogers has proved a reliable and trustworthy citizen. 470 00:29:18,657 --> 00:29:22,617 Further, he did approach the DPP to negotiate his return. 471 00:29:22,694 --> 00:29:26,028 Well, that would be to risk waiting another 16 years 472 00:29:26,098 --> 00:29:29,591 for this matter to be dealt with. No, I don't think that bail is appropriate, 473 00:29:29,668 --> 00:29:30,668 Mrs Mills. 474 00:29:31,670 --> 00:29:34,139 Sir Maurice, is your case ready? 475 00:29:34,239 --> 00:29:36,572 Aside from one matter, my Lord. 476 00:29:36,675 --> 00:29:39,804 The Crown will require an ex parte hearing 477 00:29:39,911 --> 00:29:44,281 to raise an issue relating to an informant and the public interest. 478 00:29:44,349 --> 00:29:46,716 I will not be hearing the case personally 479 00:29:46,785 --> 00:29:49,414 due to a prior commitment. 480 00:29:49,755 --> 00:29:51,951 It is being passed to Mr Justice Deed, 481 00:29:52,090 --> 00:29:55,754 whose clerk will notify you when he's available to hear it. 482 00:29:55,827 --> 00:29:57,420 Approach him. 483 00:30:01,099 --> 00:30:02,777 Did you know they had an informant in this case? 484 00:30:02,801 --> 00:30:05,134 Terry didn't say that's how he was caught originally, no. 485 00:30:05,237 --> 00:30:06,347 Well, it's obviously what happened. 486 00:30:06,371 --> 00:30:08,101 What's the prosecution after with the judge? 487 00:30:08,173 --> 00:30:10,151 To make sure the name of the informant doesn't get out. 488 00:30:10,175 --> 00:30:12,542 - Can they do that? - Of course, if the judge lets them. 489 00:30:12,611 --> 00:30:14,170 Sir Maurice is so paranoid about it, 490 00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:17,010 he won't even risk me being at the hearing with the judge. 491 00:30:17,115 --> 00:30:19,050 We badly need to find someone who can corroborate 492 00:30:19,151 --> 00:30:21,017 what Terry Rogers said the police did. 493 00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:23,347 I've got to dash. 494 00:30:28,427 --> 00:30:30,191 To be honest, Mrs Mills, 495 00:30:30,429 --> 00:30:32,206 I think it would be best for Michael long-term 496 00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:34,426 if you were to abandon the idea of adoption. 497 00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:41,529 No. No! I want to give Michael a home, but I have to do this case first. 498 00:30:41,907 --> 00:30:44,706 It seems to me his life with you would be a perpetual seesaw. 499 00:30:44,776 --> 00:30:46,768 It'll be different when Michael's here. 500 00:30:49,948 --> 00:30:52,782 I understand you need this operation, Monty. 501 00:30:52,851 --> 00:30:56,049 But all being well, you'll be back in a couple of weeks or so. 502 00:30:56,521 --> 00:30:59,355 I'd really rather not take on this Terry Rogers case. 503 00:30:59,558 --> 00:31:02,426 One of the detectives in that case was also involved in a case 504 00:31:02,494 --> 00:31:05,157 that I defended, and I know him to be corrupt. 505 00:31:05,230 --> 00:31:09,827 Oh, I'm sure we can rely upon you not to be biased, John, 506 00:31:09,901 --> 00:31:12,461 even if it is Mrs Mills defending. 507 00:31:12,537 --> 00:31:13,537 Oh, Monty. 508 00:31:14,139 --> 00:31:16,472 There is nothing between us. 509 00:31:16,842 --> 00:31:20,176 Unless you include her asking my advice about this boy she wants to adopt. 510 00:31:20,278 --> 00:31:23,112 She ought to have more sense at her age. 511 00:31:23,181 --> 00:31:27,243 I can see no serious conflict of interest in either aspect. 512 00:31:27,753 --> 00:31:29,779 I mean, we've all had policemen before us 513 00:31:29,855 --> 00:31:33,348 who've been involved in cases we've previously defended. 514 00:31:36,261 --> 00:31:40,790 The crime that the defendant, Terry Rogers, is charged with 515 00:31:40,866 --> 00:31:43,859 took place many years ago, members of the jury. 516 00:31:44,703 --> 00:31:48,333 But that does not lessen its importance to the law. 517 00:31:49,341 --> 00:31:52,505 The defence may try to make much of this gap, 518 00:31:52,577 --> 00:31:55,376 and to query witnesses as to their memories, 519 00:31:55,747 --> 00:32:00,583 but to the man who was stabbed during this violent robbery 520 00:32:00,652 --> 00:32:02,348 and who subsequently lost a kidney, 521 00:32:02,788 --> 00:32:07,158 the memory is as clear and terrifying as yesterday. 522 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,426 The defence may try to highlight 523 00:32:10,495 --> 00:32:13,863 Terry Rogers' alleged current good character. 524 00:32:14,666 --> 00:32:17,534 But justice must punish crimes, 525 00:32:18,036 --> 00:32:20,631 even those buried deep in dust. 526 00:32:21,673 --> 00:32:24,734 Before you in the dock, you see a man 527 00:32:24,843 --> 00:32:29,304 who was a violent, self-abusing, wife-abusing drug addict, 528 00:32:31,149 --> 00:32:35,314 who indulged in crime to feed that wretched habit. 529 00:32:36,521 --> 00:32:40,583 One who often associated with others far out of his league in criminal terms, 530 00:32:40,659 --> 00:32:45,188 but who he respected enough never to betray. 531 00:32:46,698 --> 00:32:50,635 Four armed men carried out the robbery on the supermarket, 532 00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:54,467 wounding the manager, Simon Estevez, with a knife, 533 00:32:55,273 --> 00:32:59,643 and making off with £13,000, none of which was recovered. 534 00:33:01,646 --> 00:33:04,115 Following a heroin binge, 535 00:33:04,683 --> 00:33:06,709 the defendant was arrested 536 00:33:06,918 --> 00:33:12,323 and eventually signed a statement confessing to his part in the crime. 537 00:33:13,959 --> 00:33:17,987 Soon after this, he managed to escape from police custody. 538 00:33:18,063 --> 00:33:21,033 Then, without a single qualification, 539 00:33:21,266 --> 00:33:24,327 he got a job teaching children, 540 00:33:25,103 --> 00:33:29,268 living with false papers under the name of Hayden Russell. 541 00:33:30,542 --> 00:33:35,139 I don't know how to get false papers, members of the jury, 542 00:33:35,247 --> 00:33:37,580 and I suspect that none of you do either. 543 00:33:38,517 --> 00:33:43,046 Only someone with the right connections, such as Terry Rogers, 544 00:33:43,154 --> 00:33:44,850 knows these things. 545 00:33:46,725 --> 00:33:48,819 Superintendent Craddock. 546 00:33:49,794 --> 00:33:53,424 Could you tell the court how long you were with the crime squad? 547 00:33:53,498 --> 00:33:54,830 Seven years, sir. 548 00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:57,096 And what was the nature of the work you did? 549 00:33:57,202 --> 00:33:58,830 We pursued armed robbers, sir. 550 00:33:59,871 --> 00:34:02,636 Was that dangerous work, Superintendent? 551 00:34:02,707 --> 00:34:04,938 It could be quite dangerous. 552 00:34:05,043 --> 00:34:07,512 I was shot on two different occasions. 553 00:34:07,746 --> 00:34:11,376 Are you being modest when you say, "Quite dangerous"? 554 00:34:12,183 --> 00:34:14,550 You don't have to answer that, Superintendent. 555 00:34:16,655 --> 00:34:19,819 Why did you go on with such dangerous work? 556 00:34:19,925 --> 00:34:21,450 Stop it, Maurice. 557 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,206 We didn't think about it. There were lots of armed robbers in those days. 558 00:34:25,230 --> 00:34:27,358 It was part of the job. 559 00:34:27,499 --> 00:34:30,833 Was the supermarket robbery in which the manager, 560 00:34:30,902 --> 00:34:34,236 Mr Simon Estevez, was stabbed, one such job? 561 00:34:34,306 --> 00:34:37,105 It was. There were 37 robberies that year, 562 00:34:37,175 --> 00:34:39,110 all involving knives or firearms. 563 00:34:40,478 --> 00:34:44,313 Then I would say you're being very modest indeed, Superintendent. 564 00:34:49,721 --> 00:34:52,987 How did you come to arrest the defendant for the robbery 16 years ago? 565 00:34:53,058 --> 00:34:54,058 My Lord... 566 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:56,151 You can't prevent defence counsel asking. 567 00:34:59,097 --> 00:35:00,827 Superintendent. 568 00:35:00,899 --> 00:35:02,868 A tip-off from an informant. 569 00:35:02,968 --> 00:35:05,699 You seem very sure about that. It was 16 years ago. 570 00:35:05,804 --> 00:35:07,796 He was a reliable informant. 571 00:35:07,872 --> 00:35:09,397 One that you had used before? 572 00:35:09,474 --> 00:35:12,069 He'd been used by squad members on a number of occasions. 573 00:35:12,143 --> 00:35:13,543 What's the name of this informant? 574 00:35:13,645 --> 00:35:16,376 Mrs Mills, I have agreed to the prosecution's request 575 00:35:16,481 --> 00:35:18,814 that this person's name is not revealed in court. 576 00:35:18,917 --> 00:35:21,944 Then it's possible my client won't get a fair trial. 577 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,154 If you can demonstrate that, I'll reconsider my ruling. 578 00:35:27,125 --> 00:35:30,220 There can be a number of reasons why a name such as this 579 00:35:30,328 --> 00:35:31,455 is not revealed. 580 00:35:32,397 --> 00:35:35,697 Because he or she is continuing to help the police, 581 00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:39,701 or because revealing it would put this person in danger, for example. 582 00:35:40,205 --> 00:35:43,835 It's called public interest immunity, or PII. 583 00:35:46,978 --> 00:35:49,379 Ah, Jo. Good, I've caught you. 584 00:35:49,481 --> 00:35:51,359 How far have you got with the backgrounds of the police? 585 00:35:51,383 --> 00:35:52,874 The prosecution have been smart 586 00:35:52,951 --> 00:35:55,546 in calling only two of the four who were involved. 587 00:35:55,620 --> 00:35:57,316 They both have straightforward records. 588 00:35:57,389 --> 00:35:59,722 Craddock has two commendations for bravery. 589 00:35:59,791 --> 00:36:01,589 He's obviously a changed man. 590 00:36:01,660 --> 00:36:03,219 If he was ever involved. 591 00:36:03,328 --> 00:36:04,728 We know that Romano went to prison. 592 00:36:04,796 --> 00:36:07,231 The other arresting officer, Matthew Stone, 593 00:36:07,298 --> 00:36:09,563 he was allowed to take early retirement. 594 00:36:09,634 --> 00:36:13,127 I can get them into the witness box, but I doubt if they'll help us. 595 00:36:13,238 --> 00:36:16,299 We still haven't got anyone who can corroborate Rogers' story. 596 00:36:16,408 --> 00:36:18,434 He hasn't got anyone. I can't find anyone. 597 00:36:20,378 --> 00:36:22,472 Try our man in Parkhurst Prison. 598 00:36:22,547 --> 00:36:24,516 Denny McDowell. I'm sure he can give us a start. 599 00:36:24,582 --> 00:36:26,778 Romano used the plastic-bag trick on him. 600 00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:29,143 Go and talk to him. 601 00:36:34,159 --> 00:36:35,627 Excuse me. Mrs Mills? 602 00:36:36,127 --> 00:36:38,426 I'm Kate Rogers, Terry Rogers's daughter. 603 00:36:38,530 --> 00:36:40,089 - Hello. - My mum said he did it. 604 00:36:40,699 --> 00:36:42,167 He robbed that supermarket. 605 00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:45,693 How does she know? Was she there? 606 00:36:45,804 --> 00:36:48,137 He might seem perfect to you, but you don't even know him. 607 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,538 He is such a liar. It's stupid to believe him 608 00:36:50,642 --> 00:36:52,543 after everything he's done to us. 609 00:36:57,315 --> 00:37:00,808 Two commendations for bravery and promotion to superintendent 610 00:37:00,919 --> 00:37:02,410 by the age of 40 611 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,888 would indicate an exemplary career, Superintendent. 612 00:37:06,324 --> 00:37:08,020 Is yours an exemplary career? 613 00:37:08,259 --> 00:37:09,259 I do my best. 614 00:37:09,828 --> 00:37:12,821 How often has that best fallen short of what is required? 615 00:37:12,931 --> 00:37:16,390 - That's not for me to say, miss. - Well, you must have some idea. 616 00:37:16,468 --> 00:37:19,302 For instance, have you ever been investigated for corruption, 617 00:37:19,404 --> 00:37:21,236 or wrongdoing? 618 00:37:21,306 --> 00:37:24,538 Once for expenses irregularities, once for alleged racism. 619 00:37:24,876 --> 00:37:26,504 Both were proven unfounded. 620 00:37:26,578 --> 00:37:29,980 So neither of them impeded your rapid promotion? 621 00:37:30,081 --> 00:37:31,081 It would seem not, miss. 622 00:37:31,549 --> 00:37:34,576 Was that promotion as a result of your work with the crime squad? 623 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,779 I suppose that could have been part of it. 624 00:37:37,322 --> 00:37:39,814 Were you a part of the crime squad when it was disbanded 625 00:37:39,924 --> 00:37:41,702 because it was felt that too many of the detectives 626 00:37:41,726 --> 00:37:44,560 were out of control or too corrupt? 627 00:37:45,063 --> 00:37:49,262 Was it disbanded because it was corrupt and out of control, Superintendent? 628 00:37:49,367 --> 00:37:50,960 I believe it was a political decision. 629 00:37:51,035 --> 00:37:54,062 It was becoming too much like a national police force. 630 00:37:54,139 --> 00:37:56,836 Corruption was the reason given for disbanding it. 631 00:37:57,308 --> 00:37:59,539 - You didn't think that was the case? - No. 632 00:38:00,345 --> 00:38:03,247 Yet haven't no fewer than 28 former squad officers 633 00:38:03,314 --> 00:38:05,749 up and down the country been prosecuted? 634 00:38:05,884 --> 00:38:07,324 Not all of them have been convicted. 635 00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:09,511 How many were, Superintendent? 636 00:38:10,321 --> 00:38:11,321 I'm not sure, sir. 637 00:38:14,826 --> 00:38:17,796 But weren't detectives as a matter of routine 638 00:38:17,862 --> 00:38:19,353 perverting the course of justice? 639 00:38:19,964 --> 00:38:24,402 Planting evidence to fit suspects up, to use the popular jargon. 640 00:38:24,803 --> 00:38:27,671 - No. Some of that was cited. - There was corruption. 641 00:38:27,739 --> 00:38:29,071 Not that I was aware of. 642 00:38:29,140 --> 00:38:31,268 - Weren't you part of that corruption? - My Lord. 643 00:38:31,409 --> 00:38:33,469 This is rather flogging a dead horse. 644 00:38:34,012 --> 00:38:36,106 Mrs Mills, you know the risk you're running. 645 00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:42,599 Superintendent, who was the informant 646 00:38:42,687 --> 00:38:45,088 who alerted you to Terry Rogers' involvement? 647 00:38:45,156 --> 00:38:46,624 I can't tell you that, miss. 648 00:38:46,724 --> 00:38:48,784 Why? Was he anonymous? 649 00:38:48,860 --> 00:38:50,795 Mrs Mills, I have ruled on this. 650 00:38:51,529 --> 00:38:54,021 My Lord, may I address you in the absence of the jury? 651 00:38:54,132 --> 00:38:56,260 I'm surprised you hadn't got there sooner. 652 00:38:56,367 --> 00:38:59,030 Members of the jury, would you mind going out, please? 653 00:39:07,712 --> 00:39:11,274 I agree with you, Mrs Mills. PII can be a loathsome device. 654 00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:14,114 But unless you can give me a compelling argument 655 00:39:14,185 --> 00:39:16,381 for revealing this informant's identity, 656 00:39:16,487 --> 00:39:19,082 I won't ask the prosecution to reveal it to you. 657 00:39:19,224 --> 00:39:22,251 My client is being unfairly deprived of his liberty. 658 00:39:22,427 --> 00:39:24,362 I haven't heard anything that indicates that. 659 00:39:24,529 --> 00:39:28,967 What about the liberty of this person who has helped the police so often? 660 00:39:30,668 --> 00:39:32,296 I will go on trying. 661 00:39:33,805 --> 00:39:35,273 Let's have the jury back. 662 00:39:37,041 --> 00:39:39,943 Superintendent, were you one of four detectives 663 00:39:40,044 --> 00:39:42,104 who obtained a confession from the defendant 664 00:39:42,213 --> 00:39:44,375 by placing a plastic bag over his head? 665 00:39:44,482 --> 00:39:47,680 My Lord, even if my learned friend acknowledges the risk, 666 00:39:47,752 --> 00:39:49,778 this is an outrageous assertion. 667 00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:52,281 More coffee, members of the jury, 668 00:39:52,690 --> 00:39:54,955 whilst I have a word with counsel. 669 00:40:08,306 --> 00:40:11,208 Mrs Mills, you're an experienced Queen's Counsel. 670 00:40:11,276 --> 00:40:14,212 If you take this line, the prosecution will be at liberty 671 00:40:14,279 --> 00:40:16,839 to bring in the defendant's criminal history. 672 00:40:21,352 --> 00:40:24,151 Might I have a short adjournment to consult my client? 673 00:40:24,222 --> 00:40:25,222 Ten minutes. 674 00:40:26,291 --> 00:40:27,350 All rise. 675 00:40:32,363 --> 00:40:34,308 I think I can get to the identity of the informant 676 00:40:34,332 --> 00:40:36,961 by attacking these policemen, but the risk is 677 00:40:37,835 --> 00:40:40,828 the prosecution can reveal facts about your past. 678 00:40:42,206 --> 00:40:45,233 It's a gamble. It won't paint a pretty picture. 679 00:40:45,310 --> 00:40:46,642 What choice do we have? 680 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,647 - Is there anything you haven't told me? - No. 681 00:40:52,317 --> 00:40:54,047 - All that is behind me. - Are you sure? 682 00:40:54,118 --> 00:40:55,296 - Yes! - Your daughter approached... 683 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:56,788 I know. I saw her in court. 684 00:40:58,022 --> 00:41:00,389 She's very angry with me. So is her mother. 685 00:41:00,892 --> 00:41:03,794 Nothing that comes out in court can make them more angry. 686 00:41:05,229 --> 00:41:06,925 There is nothing! 687 00:41:14,439 --> 00:41:15,600 Come. 688 00:41:15,673 --> 00:41:17,869 It was a complete waste of time going to Parkhurst. 689 00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:21,279 Denny McDowell wouldn't talk to me. He'll only talk to you. 690 00:41:21,346 --> 00:41:22,690 Did you tell him what I'm in court with? 691 00:41:22,714 --> 00:41:24,342 I couldn't get anywhere with him. 692 00:41:24,515 --> 00:41:25,515 He's really angry. 693 00:41:26,184 --> 00:41:28,915 Well, I suppose if you spend a third of your life in prison 694 00:41:28,987 --> 00:41:31,684 for something you didn't do, it would make you a little tetchy. 695 00:41:33,291 --> 00:41:34,816 I'll go and see him tomorrow. 696 00:41:34,926 --> 00:41:36,155 What about the trial? 697 00:41:37,862 --> 00:41:38,862 You'll be here. 698 00:41:40,431 --> 00:41:43,060 I'll go overnight and see him first thing in the morning. 699 00:41:44,235 --> 00:41:47,763 It's the examination of chief of Detective Sergeant Massey tomorrow. 700 00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:50,240 You need only take notes of his answers to guide my cross, 701 00:41:50,308 --> 00:41:51,901 not Sir Maurice's questions. 702 00:41:54,078 --> 00:41:55,078 Jo! 703 00:42:20,004 --> 00:42:21,973 Mrs Tredaway, did we have a meeting? 704 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,407 No. You had a meeting arranged with Michael. 705 00:42:24,475 --> 00:42:26,467 Oh, God, I did. I'm sorry. 706 00:42:26,544 --> 00:42:28,240 Right after court, something came up. 707 00:42:28,312 --> 00:42:30,406 I got a call from his house mother. 708 00:42:30,548 --> 00:42:32,847 - He doesn't want to see you anymore. - What? 709 00:42:33,985 --> 00:42:35,954 No. He must. 710 00:42:36,454 --> 00:42:37,454 I want him. 711 00:42:38,656 --> 00:42:39,783 I'll go there right now. 712 00:42:39,891 --> 00:42:42,069 You won't, Mrs Mills. Not unless Michael asks to see you. 713 00:42:42,093 --> 00:42:43,404 But I can't see that he would, can you? 714 00:42:43,428 --> 00:42:45,488 Please don't make me feel worse than I already do. 715 00:42:45,563 --> 00:42:46,563 I want to go and see him. 716 00:42:46,631 --> 00:42:48,542 - You weren't gonna take any more cases. - I didn't say that. 717 00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:50,544 I have to do this. This is about an innocent man's liberty. 718 00:42:50,568 --> 00:42:52,312 Yes, and Michael is about the rest of his life. 719 00:42:52,336 --> 00:42:54,862 I'll go there. I'll explain, tell him how sorry I am. 720 00:42:54,972 --> 00:42:57,203 - Please, let me explain. - He doesn't want you. 721 00:43:21,666 --> 00:43:22,666 Come on. 722 00:43:25,369 --> 00:43:26,837 - I have to see Michael. - You can't. 723 00:43:26,904 --> 00:43:28,702 No, you don't understand. I have to explain. 724 00:43:28,806 --> 00:43:30,798 - You must let me see him. - I was told you can't. 725 00:43:30,875 --> 00:43:33,087 Why are you punishing me? If you punish me, you punish Michael. 726 00:43:33,111 --> 00:43:34,875 Michael. Michael! 727 00:43:34,946 --> 00:43:37,609 You're not doing your cause any good, or his. I mean... 728 00:43:38,015 --> 00:43:40,075 Please, Michael. Let me explain. 729 00:43:40,151 --> 00:43:42,780 I'm sorry I'm late. You're much more important than my work. 730 00:43:42,887 --> 00:43:44,378 You're more important than anything. 731 00:43:44,689 --> 00:43:46,715 I just... I got tied up. 732 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:56,600 I'm sorry. 733 00:44:05,243 --> 00:44:06,609 Sergeant Massey, 734 00:44:07,311 --> 00:44:11,646 how many arrests have you made in your long and distinguished career? 735 00:44:13,251 --> 00:44:15,584 I don't exactly know, sir, I don't keep score. 736 00:44:15,686 --> 00:44:20,056 Would it be dozens, hundreds, thousands? 737 00:44:20,124 --> 00:44:22,355 Upper hundreds, lower thousands, probably. 738 00:44:22,426 --> 00:44:25,362 So, without being immodest, it would be fair to say 739 00:44:25,429 --> 00:44:29,389 that you have an impeccable record as a police officer. 740 00:44:29,467 --> 00:44:32,437 - Yes, sir. - A record I'm sure you wouldn't want 741 00:44:32,537 --> 00:44:36,304 - to sully by ever behaving corruptly? - Miss Deed? 742 00:44:38,910 --> 00:44:40,435 Is your leader not in court? 743 00:44:40,511 --> 00:44:43,811 No, she's investigating some new evidence, my Lord. 744 00:44:43,881 --> 00:44:46,112 Left you to hold the fort, eh? 745 00:44:46,651 --> 00:44:49,917 Are you challenging Sir Maurice's line of questioning? 746 00:44:52,456 --> 00:44:54,288 Should I, my Lord? 747 00:44:54,358 --> 00:44:57,556 Yes, I'd say he was leading the witness, wouldn't you? 748 00:44:57,628 --> 00:44:59,119 Yes, he was. 749 00:45:00,565 --> 00:45:02,727 - He was leading the witness, my Lord. - Ah. 750 00:45:04,035 --> 00:45:07,199 Well, I think you ought to know better, Sir Maurice. 751 00:45:07,271 --> 00:45:08,815 It might almost appear that you were trying 752 00:45:08,839 --> 00:45:10,899 to take advantage of counsel's lack of experience. 753 00:45:11,008 --> 00:45:13,443 I had no such intention. 754 00:45:13,511 --> 00:45:15,946 I believe I am experienced enough to know that 755 00:45:16,047 --> 00:45:19,415 I couldn't pull the wool over your eyes, my Lord. 756 00:45:19,483 --> 00:45:22,180 I have no further questions. Thank you, Sergeant. 757 00:45:23,187 --> 00:45:24,519 Miss Deed. 758 00:45:30,695 --> 00:45:32,823 You want to cross-examine the witness? 759 00:45:33,564 --> 00:45:37,001 No. I mean, 760 00:45:38,202 --> 00:45:41,195 could we have a short adjournment until my leader returns, my Lord? 761 00:45:43,307 --> 00:45:47,005 Well, as much as I think we would all appreciate the rest of the day off, 762 00:45:47,078 --> 00:45:50,810 I don't think we can be quite so cavalier with the Court's time. 763 00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:53,318 You are across all of the arguments, are you? 764 00:45:53,417 --> 00:45:55,352 Yes, I think so, my Lord. 765 00:45:56,153 --> 00:45:58,054 'Cause I think you should be. 766 00:45:58,756 --> 00:46:00,748 I am prepared to give you a 10-minute adjournment 767 00:46:00,858 --> 00:46:04,795 so you can consult your leader or your instructing solicitor. 768 00:46:09,367 --> 00:46:13,737 Jo, this is Charlie. Sir Maurice has finished his examination early, 769 00:46:13,804 --> 00:46:15,966 what do I do? 770 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,565 Call me as soon as you can. 771 00:46:17,642 --> 00:46:19,653 Charlie, you don't have to cross-examine this witness. 772 00:46:19,677 --> 00:46:24,843 My dad... The judge, expects me to. I'll talk to him. 773 00:46:33,891 --> 00:46:36,486 Judge? Charlie would like to you see. 774 00:46:37,428 --> 00:46:39,090 Charlie who? 775 00:46:39,163 --> 00:46:41,997 Well, do we know another Charlie, apart from your daughter? 776 00:46:43,334 --> 00:46:45,963 - Is Sir Maurice with her? - I don't think so. 777 00:46:46,871 --> 00:46:49,636 Well, then I can't see her. You know the rules as well as I do. 778 00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:53,006 - You do break them occasionally. - Well, not for my daughter. 779 00:46:53,077 --> 00:46:54,807 Not when she's before me. 780 00:47:02,620 --> 00:47:05,146 Charlie, he won't see you unless Sir Maurice is there, too. 781 00:47:05,256 --> 00:47:08,385 This is stupid. I can't ask his advice in front of the prosecution. 782 00:47:08,492 --> 00:47:09,670 Yeah, but it's the rules, Charlie. 783 00:47:09,694 --> 00:47:13,893 Since when has he ever taken notice of those? He's my dad. I will see him. 784 00:47:13,964 --> 00:47:15,227 Charlie! 785 00:47:18,169 --> 00:47:21,264 - Why can't you see me? This is stupid! - Get real, Charlie. 786 00:47:21,372 --> 00:47:23,932 You are appearing before me in the grown-up world of Crown Court. 787 00:47:24,008 --> 00:47:27,035 You have to understand that you can't see me on your own. 788 00:47:27,111 --> 00:47:29,171 Our relationship in these circumstances is changed. 789 00:47:29,246 --> 00:47:30,874 I just wanted to ask you one thing. 790 00:47:30,948 --> 00:47:32,948 Well, you can't, unless you want to risk a retrial. 791 00:47:33,050 --> 00:47:37,181 - Well, you see Jo alone all the time. - Charlie, this is not up for debate. 792 00:47:37,288 --> 00:47:40,588 Now you have to change now you're in this world. Go on, hop it. 793 00:47:49,934 --> 00:47:51,664 What do I do, Granddad? 794 00:47:51,769 --> 00:47:54,603 Well, remember he's not your father when you're appearing before him. 795 00:47:54,672 --> 00:47:57,073 He could have just told me anyway. 796 00:47:57,174 --> 00:47:59,302 Yes, well, I wish I was there, my darling. 797 00:47:59,410 --> 00:48:04,508 I may not have Solomonic wisdom, but I'm a very good oracle on evidence. 798 00:48:04,615 --> 00:48:08,518 If I could only be sitting within whispering distance. 799 00:48:08,619 --> 00:48:11,521 You could always report sick, Charlie. 800 00:48:11,589 --> 00:48:13,285 He'd demand a medical certificate. 801 00:48:13,758 --> 00:48:16,694 Yes. What tack is Mrs Mills taking? 802 00:48:16,761 --> 00:48:18,821 To attack the credibility of the police. 803 00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:23,895 Yes, I suppose she would. Look, play for time. 804 00:48:24,368 --> 00:48:26,428 Take the policeman through his every 805 00:48:26,537 --> 00:48:28,597 action since he joined the police force. 806 00:48:28,672 --> 00:48:31,665 That'll teach your father not to grant a proper adjournment. 807 00:48:33,177 --> 00:48:34,440 Thanks, Granddad. 808 00:48:49,493 --> 00:48:52,486 I still can't believe they knocked me back on my appeal. 809 00:48:53,297 --> 00:48:54,560 I thought I'd got it for sure, 810 00:48:54,632 --> 00:48:57,329 what with Romano being done for corruption. 811 00:48:57,401 --> 00:48:59,597 So did I and John Deed. 812 00:48:59,670 --> 00:49:01,990 Yeah, well, it's all right for him, he's not stuck in here. 813 00:49:02,740 --> 00:49:04,732 The irony is if you would have pleaded guilty, 814 00:49:04,809 --> 00:49:06,778 you would have been paroled long before now. 815 00:49:06,844 --> 00:49:09,370 I'll never do that. I'll die in here first. 816 00:49:11,515 --> 00:49:15,509 I won't give up on you, Denny. I'll find a way, I promise you. 817 00:49:17,421 --> 00:49:18,498 I think there's something in the case 818 00:49:18,522 --> 00:49:19,966 I'm currently working on that could help you. 819 00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:22,550 The same two detectives were involved. 820 00:49:22,660 --> 00:49:27,325 Why did you send that girl down here? Why did you think I'd talk to her? 821 00:49:28,833 --> 00:49:31,428 I can't be in two places at once. I'm in court. 822 00:49:33,204 --> 00:49:35,469 I need someone to corroborate what Terry Rogers is saying 823 00:49:35,573 --> 00:49:38,634 about those detectives putting a plastic bag over his head. 824 00:49:38,742 --> 00:49:41,268 It's what they did to me. On the say so of an informant. 825 00:49:41,378 --> 00:49:43,506 Do you know who that was? 826 00:49:44,181 --> 00:49:47,310 There was no way I could get his name. He was well protected. 827 00:49:50,254 --> 00:49:53,747 What about the policeman who gave you the information on the detectives? 828 00:49:53,858 --> 00:49:56,760 Could he help with a name, or corroboration? 829 00:49:56,861 --> 00:49:59,072 He wouldn't step out of the shadows for me. Why would he for you? 830 00:49:59,096 --> 00:50:01,190 Give me his name, let me talk to him. 831 00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:06,762 He won't do it. He's about to retire. He's scared. 832 00:50:06,837 --> 00:50:09,363 He was on the squad with the other detectives, wasn't he? 833 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,534 He asked to go out because of what they were doing. 834 00:50:11,609 --> 00:50:13,578 Denny, this could help your case. 835 00:50:13,644 --> 00:50:17,513 Yeah, but if he clams up, I'll never get anything out of him. 836 00:50:18,315 --> 00:50:21,843 You've got to trust me with this. Just trust me. 837 00:50:26,891 --> 00:50:31,192 And for what precisely did you make your first arrest? 838 00:50:35,099 --> 00:50:39,696 - Widespread cheque-card fraud. - How much money was involved? 839 00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:43,172 Miss Deed, do you think we should ask the jury 840 00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:46,074 if they'd like some more coffee to keep them awake? 841 00:50:46,176 --> 00:50:48,907 - This is all relevant, my Lord. - Oh, yeah, I'm sure it is. 842 00:50:49,847 --> 00:50:51,372 I just wish you'd go a bit faster. 843 00:50:59,223 --> 00:51:00,851 Sergeant Hill? 844 00:51:02,092 --> 00:51:04,391 - I'm Jo Mills. - Think I couldn't guess? 845 00:51:04,495 --> 00:51:07,397 I told you on the phone, I don't know Denny McDowell or Terry Rogers 846 00:51:07,498 --> 00:51:08,909 other than what I've read in the newspapers. 847 00:51:08,933 --> 00:51:11,411 I never referred to him as Denny. I'm sure the papers never did. 848 00:51:11,435 --> 00:51:14,166 Denny, Dennis, what's it matter? I can't help you. 849 00:51:14,238 --> 00:51:15,968 I'm just going on duty. 850 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:17,551 You're obviously a man with a conscience 851 00:51:17,575 --> 00:51:20,020 or you wouldn't have contacted Denny McDowell in the first place. 852 00:51:20,044 --> 00:51:22,240 How many more innocent men are languishing in jail, 853 00:51:22,313 --> 00:51:24,839 men you might be able to help get out? 854 00:51:28,218 --> 00:51:29,743 In case you change your mind. 855 00:51:33,457 --> 00:51:35,722 That's very interesting, Sergeant. 856 00:51:38,162 --> 00:51:39,439 What was the first thing that you did 857 00:51:39,463 --> 00:51:41,796 when you got to the squad office each morning? 858 00:51:43,233 --> 00:51:46,692 I'd get a cup of coffee, then check my post. 859 00:51:55,245 --> 00:51:58,409 When did you first use a plastic bag placed over a suspect's head 860 00:51:58,482 --> 00:52:00,280 in order to get a confession? 861 00:52:00,384 --> 00:52:03,877 - What? - My Lord, this outrageous assertion 862 00:52:03,954 --> 00:52:08,551 raises its ugly head once again. I wager with nothing to substantiate it. 863 00:52:09,660 --> 00:52:12,562 Have you got anything to substantiate it, Miss Deed? 864 00:52:18,102 --> 00:52:21,038 - Yes. - Perhaps my learned friend has something 865 00:52:21,138 --> 00:52:23,334 she wishes to share with the Court. 866 00:52:25,943 --> 00:52:28,970 - Do you, Miss Deed? - In the fullness of time. 867 00:52:30,214 --> 00:52:34,481 - Well, Sergeant? - No, I've never strong-armed suspects. 868 00:52:35,252 --> 00:52:38,154 Not even when my team arrested a child murderer. 869 00:52:39,223 --> 00:52:41,454 You mean a suspected child murderer, surely? 870 00:52:41,525 --> 00:52:45,326 It's up to the Court to decide whether your suspect is in fact guilty. 871 00:52:45,396 --> 00:52:47,695 Yes, miss. But he was convicted. 872 00:52:49,033 --> 00:52:52,367 So you've never once used force to get a prisoner to confess? 873 00:52:52,436 --> 00:52:54,530 No. Never. 874 00:52:54,605 --> 00:52:56,205 So you're saying that you have never used 875 00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:58,800 a plastic bad to get a suspect to confess? 876 00:52:58,876 --> 00:53:04,508 - No, I haven't. On my baby's eyesight. - A simple no would suffice. 877 00:53:06,717 --> 00:53:10,313 Well, that woke everybody up, Mrs Mills, just as it's time to go home. 878 00:53:11,488 --> 00:53:12,751 All rise. 879 00:53:22,099 --> 00:53:23,328 Hang on. 880 00:53:24,635 --> 00:53:30,575 Jo Mills. I understand your hesitation, Sergeant. Where do you want to meet? 881 00:53:32,409 --> 00:53:33,638 Half an hour? 882 00:53:39,583 --> 00:53:44,146 Troy Romano and Matthew Stone were by-words for corruption. 883 00:53:46,156 --> 00:53:49,888 I was so proud when I was selected to the squad. 884 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,158 Then I discovered what was going on. 885 00:53:53,263 --> 00:53:54,925 It turned my stomach. 886 00:53:56,734 --> 00:53:58,498 I'm as bad, I suppose. 887 00:53:59,636 --> 00:54:01,314 Instead of getting out, I should have stayed 888 00:54:01,338 --> 00:54:02,966 and blown the whistle. 889 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,008 All these years, I've lived with it, marking time. 890 00:54:07,778 --> 00:54:09,474 Waiting to collect me pension. 891 00:54:11,315 --> 00:54:12,647 It's shameful. 892 00:54:12,716 --> 00:54:16,346 It takes a lot of courage to step forward and be singled out. 893 00:54:20,357 --> 00:54:23,293 After they nicked Troy Romano, Matt Stone got out. 894 00:54:24,661 --> 00:54:28,393 I think Superintendent Craddock helped him pull clear. 895 00:54:28,499 --> 00:54:30,695 Do you know that or are you speculating? 896 00:54:30,768 --> 00:54:33,169 Look, I want to keep my pension, Mrs Mills. 897 00:54:34,238 --> 00:54:36,605 Now, Dave Craddock was a strange man in those days. 898 00:54:36,673 --> 00:54:39,939 I think he was a decent bloke, but weak. 899 00:54:41,845 --> 00:54:44,576 It was probably him who helped Rogers escape. 900 00:54:45,249 --> 00:54:46,444 Are you serious? 901 00:54:46,517 --> 00:54:50,284 You just can't walk out of police stations once you're in custody. 902 00:54:52,723 --> 00:54:56,251 Romano and Stone would help out robbers they should have nicked. 903 00:54:56,927 --> 00:54:58,657 To do that, they'd find a body. 904 00:54:59,329 --> 00:55:01,389 Some worthless criminal they'd put in the frame. 905 00:55:01,498 --> 00:55:03,626 Terry Rogers was the body. 906 00:55:03,734 --> 00:55:07,227 Then they'd get a professional informant they had to grass him. 907 00:55:07,337 --> 00:55:09,636 Yes, who was that informant, what was his name? 908 00:55:09,740 --> 00:55:13,177 - I can't tell you. - You don't know, or you won't tell me? 909 00:55:13,944 --> 00:55:15,378 I don't know. 910 00:55:15,946 --> 00:55:17,546 Even if I did, I couldn't give it to you. 911 00:55:17,581 --> 00:55:19,675 He's covered by public interest immunity. 912 00:55:20,617 --> 00:55:23,314 Was it the same informant that named Denny McDowell? 913 00:55:24,121 --> 00:55:25,953 I think it was, yeah. 914 00:55:26,423 --> 00:55:29,052 How many cases has this informant been involved in? 915 00:55:30,861 --> 00:55:32,762 I know of eight convictions. 916 00:55:32,863 --> 00:55:36,493 One, Laurence Ray, got overturned on appeal. 917 00:55:38,101 --> 00:55:41,094 Did they ever put any robbers away on real evidence? 918 00:55:41,638 --> 00:55:43,436 There were some really dangerous robbers 919 00:55:43,540 --> 00:55:46,408 put away as a result of some real coppering. 920 00:55:46,777 --> 00:55:50,839 But there was that much pressure on us, no one much minded how we did our job. 921 00:55:52,316 --> 00:55:56,412 Well, if I don't get the name of the informant, we're no further forward. 922 00:55:56,820 --> 00:55:59,346 I'm sorry. I've gotta go. 923 00:56:04,661 --> 00:56:08,393 Do you think Superintendent Craddock really helped Terry Rogers escape? 924 00:56:08,498 --> 00:56:10,729 If he did, I want to know why. 925 00:56:16,773 --> 00:56:18,935 Of course he didn't, Mrs Mills. Why would he let me go? 926 00:56:19,009 --> 00:56:20,053 That's what I'm asking you. 927 00:56:20,077 --> 00:56:22,774 He didn't! I just saw my opportunity and I ran! 928 00:56:28,685 --> 00:56:30,813 Let's go back, if we may, 929 00:56:30,888 --> 00:56:35,223 to your involvement with ex-Detective Sergeants Romano and Stone. 930 00:56:35,292 --> 00:56:37,955 They were by-words for corruption on the squad, were they not? 931 00:56:38,061 --> 00:56:40,530 - I haven't heard that. - Oh, really? 932 00:56:40,597 --> 00:56:42,691 Even though Romano was sent to prison 933 00:56:42,766 --> 00:56:44,667 and Stone squeaked out 934 00:56:44,735 --> 00:56:46,761 with the help of Superintendent Craddock? 935 00:56:48,005 --> 00:56:50,634 Tell us the last case you were on with Romano and Stone. 936 00:56:51,608 --> 00:56:54,635 - I can't remember. - Well, let me refresh your memory. 937 00:56:56,380 --> 00:56:59,839 Wasn't it the conviction of Laurence Ray for robbery? 938 00:56:59,917 --> 00:57:01,283 I think so. 939 00:57:02,452 --> 00:57:06,321 Did you use a professional informant to help convict Laurence Ray? 940 00:57:06,423 --> 00:57:07,914 I really don't remember. 941 00:57:08,025 --> 00:57:10,722 Then I suggest you'd better try harder, Sergeant. 942 00:57:10,827 --> 00:57:13,490 My Lord, your intervention is hardly fair to this witness. 943 00:57:13,563 --> 00:57:17,557 He is having to recall events that occurred some 16 or more years ago. 944 00:57:17,668 --> 00:57:19,899 Yes, and I'm reminding him of his duty. 945 00:57:19,970 --> 00:57:23,998 You are forcing him to give answers that may not be direct memory. 946 00:57:24,107 --> 00:57:26,372 No, no, no. Sit down. Well, Sergeant? 947 00:57:29,012 --> 00:57:31,880 My Lord, I think we may be referring to the informant 948 00:57:31,982 --> 00:57:34,577 who is covered by the public interest immunity. 949 00:57:34,651 --> 00:57:38,679 - Are we? - Yes, my Lord. 950 00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:40,629 Then you can't have the information, Mrs Mills. 951 00:57:40,657 --> 00:57:42,558 This is wholly unfair, my Lord. 952 00:57:42,659 --> 00:57:44,753 Yes, so you keep saying. 953 00:57:50,334 --> 00:57:54,328 Can you tell the Court what happened subsequent to Mr Ray's conviction? 954 00:57:54,404 --> 00:57:56,305 - I don't know. - Oh, really? 955 00:57:56,373 --> 00:57:58,151 Not that his conviction was found to be unsafe 956 00:57:58,175 --> 00:58:01,441 and he was freed by the Court of Appeal after serving nine years? 957 00:58:02,346 --> 00:58:04,611 What happened to your secret supergrass? 958 00:58:04,681 --> 00:58:07,082 - My Lord... - Mrs Mills, just be careful. 959 00:58:08,785 --> 00:58:10,481 - I don't know. - Come on! 960 00:58:11,288 --> 00:58:13,689 Did he get a knighthood? Retire to the Bahamas? 961 00:58:13,757 --> 00:58:14,850 He wasn't my informant. 962 00:58:14,925 --> 00:58:17,417 But one you had plenty of contact with, did you not? 963 00:58:17,494 --> 00:58:19,690 My Lord, if you allow the defence to persist 964 00:58:19,763 --> 00:58:21,356 with this line of questioning, 965 00:58:21,465 --> 00:58:24,492 this person might accidentally be identified in open court. 966 00:58:24,568 --> 00:58:26,537 I'll see you both in chambers now. 967 00:58:27,404 --> 00:58:28,702 All rise. 968 00:58:32,442 --> 00:58:34,468 What's going on here, Maurice? 969 00:58:34,578 --> 00:58:36,376 Is there evidence to convict this man 970 00:58:36,446 --> 00:58:38,574 without revealing the informant's identity? 971 00:58:38,648 --> 00:58:41,880 The CPS thinks there is and I am of that opinion as well. 972 00:58:41,985 --> 00:58:44,079 Rogers did sign a confession. 973 00:58:44,187 --> 00:58:45,485 He didn't write it though! 974 00:58:45,589 --> 00:58:47,649 The informant simply put his name in the frame. 975 00:58:47,724 --> 00:58:50,421 That is partly how the police function. 976 00:58:50,494 --> 00:58:53,225 Without informants, there would be no crime watch. 977 00:58:53,296 --> 00:58:55,925 Come on, Maurice. This is no longer the '80s. 978 00:58:55,999 --> 00:58:58,935 We take a dim view of professional informants nowadays. 979 00:58:59,002 --> 00:59:01,369 That makes his information no less valid, my Lord. 980 00:59:01,438 --> 00:59:04,602 Any information that can't be tested in court is less than reliable. 981 00:59:06,410 --> 00:59:08,845 - Can you proceed? - I don't think I can guarantee 982 00:59:08,945 --> 00:59:11,608 my client justice if I cannot examine the informant. 983 00:59:11,681 --> 00:59:14,412 Bring me evidence of that Jo and I'll reconsider my decision. 984 00:59:14,484 --> 00:59:16,851 - Judge... - No, the burden is still on the defence 985 00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:18,831 to show that her client can only get a fair trial 986 00:59:18,855 --> 00:59:20,881 if this person's name is revealed. 987 00:59:20,957 --> 00:59:24,826 We have to keep this under constant review, Maurice, and you know it. 988 00:59:27,898 --> 00:59:30,527 I don't know how you're going to prove that, Mrs Mills. 989 00:59:32,469 --> 00:59:35,962 Have any of the other convictions that the informant was responsible for 990 00:59:36,039 --> 00:59:38,338 been overturned? Besides Laurence Ray's? 991 00:59:38,408 --> 00:59:39,501 That would do it. 992 00:59:39,576 --> 00:59:42,341 It would show that the informant is not reliable and therefore 993 00:59:42,412 --> 00:59:44,677 the public interest has changed. 994 00:59:44,781 --> 00:59:46,477 There's the one that got Romano nicked. 995 00:59:46,583 --> 00:59:47,881 How is that? 996 00:59:47,984 --> 00:59:49,418 Sonny McQueen was the police plant. 997 00:59:49,486 --> 00:59:51,682 He was approaching Romano to do corrupt deals. 998 00:59:51,788 --> 00:59:54,849 Romano double-crossed him on the deal and fitted him up for robbery. 999 00:59:54,925 --> 00:59:57,121 Using the informant? Great. 1000 01:00:11,741 --> 01:00:13,403 What do you think? 1001 01:00:24,454 --> 01:00:25,820 What do you think of this? 1002 01:00:27,324 --> 01:00:28,849 It's Harry Potter. 1003 01:00:29,893 --> 01:00:31,828 You liked the Harry Potter books, didn't you? 1004 01:00:31,895 --> 01:00:33,227 They were okay. 1005 01:00:37,968 --> 01:00:41,063 Michael, I'm really sorry I couldn't come when I said I would. 1006 01:00:41,138 --> 01:00:42,936 I was terribly busy. 1007 01:00:47,310 --> 01:00:50,644 I've asked the social worker if you could come to my home soon. 1008 01:00:52,382 --> 01:00:54,010 If you'd like to. 1009 01:00:56,853 --> 01:00:58,845 I'm sure it'd be nicer than here. 1010 01:01:00,624 --> 01:01:02,559 Gonna give him all of them? 1011 01:01:04,461 --> 01:01:07,863 Well, I expect you can play with them, too. What is your name? 1012 01:01:07,931 --> 01:01:10,059 I think it's Hero, I think. 1013 01:01:10,133 --> 01:01:13,126 Well, that's interesting. He was a Greek, wasn't he? 1014 01:01:18,241 --> 01:01:23,043 It was a girl. She was in love with Leander who drowned. 1015 01:01:23,146 --> 01:01:25,945 - She committed suicide. - How do you know that? 1016 01:01:26,016 --> 01:01:27,985 I've got a book on Greek mythology. 1017 01:01:30,687 --> 01:01:33,851 Perhaps that's why he doesn't like to remember his name. 1018 01:01:34,891 --> 01:01:37,258 Do you want to go and see The Wizard of Oz? 1019 01:01:44,935 --> 01:01:47,734 I'll pack these things up. You can have them later. 1020 01:02:03,286 --> 01:02:05,118 Having looked at the papers 1021 01:02:05,222 --> 01:02:07,851 in the case against ex-Detectives Romano and Stone... 1022 01:02:08,725 --> 01:02:10,125 Mrs Mills? 1023 01:02:12,662 --> 01:02:13,662 Jo? 1024 01:02:16,499 --> 01:02:18,934 Having looked at papers, I am going to order that 1025 01:02:19,002 --> 01:02:21,995 the Crown discloses the name of the informant 1026 01:02:22,105 --> 01:02:24,631 previously protected under public interest immunity. 1027 01:02:24,741 --> 01:02:28,109 My Lord, I would urge you most strongly not to do that. 1028 01:02:28,178 --> 01:02:29,703 The man's life may be at stake. 1029 01:02:29,779 --> 01:02:33,580 As the informant seems to have conspired with at least one corrupt detective, 1030 01:02:33,650 --> 01:02:35,228 it can no longer be in the public interest 1031 01:02:35,252 --> 01:02:37,483 to keep his name secret, can it? 1032 01:02:37,587 --> 01:02:39,613 What is his name? 1033 01:02:39,689 --> 01:02:43,717 I don't have that information, only his pseudonym, The Cat. 1034 01:02:45,528 --> 01:02:49,021 Then are either of the two detectives at court, Mrs Mills? 1035 01:02:49,099 --> 01:02:54,060 - No, neither answered their summons. - All right, then I'll issue a summons. 1036 01:02:54,137 --> 01:02:57,505 Mr Clerk, I want them both brought here so I can question them on this matter. 1037 01:02:57,574 --> 01:02:59,907 In the meantime, is Superintendent Craddock here? 1038 01:02:59,976 --> 01:03:03,003 I want to talk to him as well. And let's have the jury back. 1039 01:03:07,550 --> 01:03:09,018 Superintendent Craddock, 1040 01:03:09,085 --> 01:03:11,179 I'd like to ask you some questions, please. 1041 01:03:14,291 --> 01:03:17,159 I would like my objection to this procedure noted. 1042 01:03:17,260 --> 01:03:18,523 It's noted. 1043 01:03:20,363 --> 01:03:23,356 Superintendent Craddock, a specific allegation 1044 01:03:23,466 --> 01:03:26,903 has been laid against officers of the crime squad 1045 01:03:26,970 --> 01:03:30,498 to do with actions whilst questioning the defendant. 1046 01:03:30,573 --> 01:03:34,772 It's alleged that a plastic bag was placed over his head 1047 01:03:34,844 --> 01:03:36,972 to obtain a confession. 1048 01:03:37,580 --> 01:03:38,673 Did you take part in that? 1049 01:03:38,782 --> 01:03:41,274 - No, my Lord... - Do sit down, Sir Maurice. 1050 01:03:43,453 --> 01:03:45,513 No, sir. Police officers don't behave like that. 1051 01:03:45,622 --> 01:03:49,923 Are you saying officers on the squad never did that? 1052 01:03:50,026 --> 01:03:52,257 Not to my knowledge, sir. No. 1053 01:03:52,329 --> 01:03:54,355 - You're sure? - Yes, sir. 1054 01:03:54,464 --> 01:03:56,023 Is it your evidence then 1055 01:03:56,099 --> 01:03:58,534 that Terry Rogers willingly confessed to this crime? 1056 01:03:58,601 --> 01:04:02,538 - My Lord, he signed a statement. - That's not what I asked him. 1057 01:04:03,540 --> 01:04:06,908 - Superintendent? - He did willingly confess, sir. 1058 01:04:06,976 --> 01:04:12,677 Then, how did Mr Rogers sustain injuries to his wrists and chest? 1059 01:04:12,782 --> 01:04:15,274 He had to be cuffed, he attacked DS Romano. 1060 01:04:15,385 --> 01:04:17,149 It's in the medical report. 1061 01:04:17,220 --> 01:04:22,454 The independent medical report submitted by the defence suggests 1062 01:04:22,525 --> 01:04:27,088 that his injuries are consistent 1063 01:04:27,163 --> 01:04:31,601 with having had a plastic bag placed over his head. 1064 01:04:31,701 --> 01:04:33,101 We didn't do that, sir. 1065 01:04:34,704 --> 01:04:36,798 How did you come to arrest Mr Rogers? 1066 01:04:38,141 --> 01:04:40,804 From information supplied to us by an informant. 1067 01:04:40,910 --> 01:04:42,378 Ah. Now... 1068 01:04:43,813 --> 01:04:48,683 Did the police ever feed information to the informant? 1069 01:04:49,185 --> 01:04:50,813 Not to my knowledge, no. 1070 01:04:50,887 --> 01:04:54,221 Then we better ask him. What is the name of this informant? 1071 01:04:54,290 --> 01:04:56,885 I don't know, sir. I didn't run him. 1072 01:04:57,327 --> 01:05:01,287 I see, it might almost appear to be a conspiracy 1073 01:05:01,364 --> 01:05:03,856 to prevent this informant's name from coming out. 1074 01:05:03,933 --> 01:05:07,961 But I will have it. One way or another, I will have it. 1075 01:05:10,306 --> 01:05:14,641 My Lord, we cannot, we must not pursue this informant in this way. 1076 01:05:14,744 --> 01:05:16,770 To do so is not in the public interest. 1077 01:05:16,846 --> 01:05:19,543 No, Mr James, as Lord Bingham says, 1078 01:05:19,616 --> 01:05:22,176 "We cannot withhold anything under PII 1079 01:05:22,252 --> 01:05:25,017 "if to do so is to deny a defendant justice." 1080 01:05:25,088 --> 01:05:27,284 The informant could still be at risk from criminals. 1081 01:05:27,390 --> 01:05:29,325 It's still not worth risking a man's liberty. 1082 01:05:29,426 --> 01:05:32,089 The man in question may not deserve his liberty, Sir John. 1083 01:05:32,195 --> 01:05:37,327 That's what I want to test in court. I will do this. 1084 01:05:37,434 --> 01:05:39,044 If I have to approach the Attorney General, 1085 01:05:39,068 --> 01:05:41,765 the Home Secretary and the Lord Chancellor. 1086 01:05:41,871 --> 01:05:43,737 Not necessarily in that order. 1087 01:05:47,710 --> 01:05:52,944 My earnest advice to you, John, is not to pursue this matter. 1088 01:05:53,016 --> 01:05:55,076 The PII has always prevailed. 1089 01:05:55,185 --> 01:05:57,051 This wretched informant has blighted 1090 01:05:57,153 --> 01:05:59,054 several lives, Joe, and he should be outted. 1091 01:05:59,355 --> 01:06:01,256 Anyway, it's my decision. 1092 01:06:01,324 --> 01:06:02,917 The powers that be seem to think 1093 01:06:03,026 --> 01:06:06,724 that a lot of his information is highly sensitive. 1094 01:06:07,464 --> 01:06:09,490 You could put the Home Secretary on the rack 1095 01:06:09,566 --> 01:06:11,467 and still not squeeze the name out of him. 1096 01:06:11,534 --> 01:06:14,299 This isn't about protecting public interest, 1097 01:06:14,370 --> 01:06:18,102 it's about protecting corrupt policemen and I'm not going to do it. 1098 01:06:20,944 --> 01:06:22,503 Bloody fool. 1099 01:06:26,749 --> 01:06:29,844 It's not fair, Jo, the judge said we could have his name. 1100 01:06:29,953 --> 01:06:33,651 Maybe we can get it from Romano, if the summons server can find him. 1101 01:06:35,291 --> 01:06:38,853 What about Sergeant Hill? Perhaps he knows where he is. 1102 01:06:42,365 --> 01:06:44,459 You must be able to help, Granddad. 1103 01:06:44,567 --> 01:06:48,902 Yeah, but I'm just on my way to see the Lord Chancellor, to talk, I hope, 1104 01:06:49,606 --> 01:06:53,600 - about my elevation. - This is important. 1105 01:06:53,710 --> 01:06:56,942 Was the informant's name disclosed to the trial judge? 1106 01:06:57,013 --> 01:06:59,312 It was Sir Nicholas Jones in the McDowell trial. 1107 01:06:59,382 --> 01:07:01,283 You know him, can't you ask him? 1108 01:07:01,384 --> 01:07:03,478 Even if I got the man's name for you, my darling, 1109 01:07:03,586 --> 01:07:06,454 I'm not sure that you, as the junior on the case, should have it. 1110 01:07:06,556 --> 01:07:07,854 Dad said we could. 1111 01:07:11,194 --> 01:07:12,856 Look, I've got to go. 1112 01:07:22,572 --> 01:07:25,701 - Wow, it looks like my luck's changed. - Hello, Troy. 1113 01:07:26,976 --> 01:07:28,035 Sam. 1114 01:07:29,012 --> 01:07:31,607 - You want a drink? - You didn't answer your witness summons. 1115 01:07:32,315 --> 01:07:33,749 I wonder why. 1116 01:07:34,784 --> 01:07:36,548 Here's one straight from the judge. 1117 01:07:39,389 --> 01:07:40,466 You've got to be kidding me. 1118 01:07:40,490 --> 01:07:44,393 If you don't appear forthwith, you'll find yourself back in jail. 1119 01:07:44,460 --> 01:07:46,540 And you'll find yourself without your teeth, darling. 1120 01:07:46,596 --> 01:07:50,089 Don't, Troy, or you'll find yourself in prison forever. 1121 01:07:50,166 --> 01:07:52,158 Her dad's Mr Justice Deed. 1122 01:08:03,780 --> 01:08:05,146 Why are you doing this? 1123 01:08:06,916 --> 01:08:09,078 I'm trying to keep my pension. 1124 01:08:10,653 --> 01:08:11,780 Yeah. 1125 01:08:15,658 --> 01:08:17,923 You're going about it the wrong way, pal. 1126 01:08:29,205 --> 01:08:32,300 I hope this is a social call, Joe. And not a rap over the knuckles. 1127 01:08:32,375 --> 01:08:34,867 It's always been in my nature to keep quiet. 1128 01:08:34,944 --> 01:08:37,846 Hold my opinion. But I can't do it any longer. 1129 01:08:38,314 --> 01:08:41,307 I shan't! Wretched weasels! 1130 01:08:43,152 --> 01:08:47,146 Reptiles. Oleaginous reptiles. 1131 01:08:49,025 --> 01:08:50,391 They passed me over. 1132 01:08:50,460 --> 01:08:55,524 I've just heard that they're making Oliver Caldicott 1133 01:08:55,632 --> 01:08:58,500 a Law Lord, instead of me. 1134 01:08:58,568 --> 01:09:03,097 Oh, I see. Well, I dare say there'll be 1135 01:09:03,172 --> 01:09:05,971 - other opportunities. - Don't be absurd. 1136 01:09:06,743 --> 01:09:10,373 Caldicott is six years younger than I am. Reptiles! 1137 01:09:13,416 --> 01:09:14,416 May I? 1138 01:09:14,517 --> 01:09:15,576 Yeah. 1139 01:09:16,586 --> 01:09:18,817 It seems to me, Joe, that the less you accommodate them, 1140 01:09:18,888 --> 01:09:20,015 the more they respect you. 1141 01:09:20,089 --> 01:09:23,025 - I've been altogether too compliant. - Well. 1142 01:09:24,927 --> 01:09:28,659 You do your best to keep their whole shoddy system functioning 1143 01:09:28,731 --> 01:09:32,930 and they slap you in the teeth. 1144 01:09:33,036 --> 01:09:36,598 Charlie, your Charlie said as much to me a year ago. 1145 01:09:37,006 --> 01:09:39,202 I couldn't see it, of course. 1146 01:09:40,109 --> 01:09:42,704 I gather you're still having difficulty 1147 01:09:42,779 --> 01:09:45,374 identifying that wretched informant. 1148 01:09:45,448 --> 01:09:48,316 Yes, there might almost be a conspiracy to protect him. 1149 01:09:49,652 --> 01:09:56,286 He's deeply implicated in police corruption. 1150 01:09:58,261 --> 01:10:01,459 His name is Killick. David Killick. 1151 01:10:01,531 --> 01:10:05,093 Joe, how did you get that name? 1152 01:10:06,903 --> 01:10:11,705 I had to buy one of our brethren several single malts. 1153 01:10:14,744 --> 01:10:17,714 Jo! Jo, is it true, Dad's outted the informant? 1154 01:10:17,780 --> 01:10:20,140 His name is David Killick, I've asked the judge to call him. 1155 01:10:20,183 --> 01:10:23,347 I hope you'll accept that the possible death of this informant 1156 01:10:23,419 --> 01:10:25,581 will be on your conscience, not mine. 1157 01:10:34,230 --> 01:10:35,823 A regular stroke the squad pulled 1158 01:10:35,898 --> 01:10:38,367 was to stick it on someone on the fringes of crime. 1159 01:10:40,036 --> 01:10:42,699 Often it was someone who was causing them too much ache. 1160 01:10:44,140 --> 01:10:45,540 They did that all the time. 1161 01:10:46,542 --> 01:10:50,638 That's how Troy Romano came unstuck when he give me Sonny McQueen to put up. 1162 01:10:50,747 --> 01:10:53,808 Sonny McQueen being the person planted 1163 01:10:53,916 --> 01:10:55,976 to entrap Detective Sergeant Romano? 1164 01:10:56,052 --> 01:10:59,420 Yes, sir. The trap banged tight shut on him. 1165 01:11:00,189 --> 01:11:01,748 Tell me about Terry Rogers. 1166 01:11:02,458 --> 01:11:04,927 Troy Romano knew him all right. 1167 01:11:06,262 --> 01:11:10,029 Said he was just a life-wasting smackhead. Not worth snot. 1168 01:11:10,833 --> 01:11:13,860 Always giving everyone ache, trying to score all the time. 1169 01:11:15,037 --> 01:11:17,597 But, no, the police didn't give me his details. 1170 01:11:19,175 --> 01:11:22,543 I put him in on information I got about that robbery independently. 1171 01:11:22,612 --> 01:11:24,342 No, you can't. You can't have. 1172 01:11:24,413 --> 01:11:26,245 Silence in the court, please. 1173 01:11:26,349 --> 01:11:29,410 You really can't do that. Sit down, please. 1174 01:11:31,087 --> 01:11:33,022 - I won't tolerate... - What now, Jo? 1175 01:11:33,089 --> 01:11:34,455 Well, if you've got a plastic bag, 1176 01:11:34,557 --> 01:11:36,992 I might be able to get Romano to confess. 1177 01:11:37,059 --> 01:11:38,891 If I don't nail him, we're sunk. 1178 01:11:41,697 --> 01:11:44,633 David Killick gave us Terry Rogers good as gold. 1179 01:11:45,768 --> 01:11:48,088 Everything else just added up. That's how we ran the squad. 1180 01:11:48,137 --> 01:11:51,733 As efficient as Swiss time. They were villains, we put them away. 1181 01:11:51,808 --> 01:11:56,212 Grassers gave us the body, we made sure the evidence was there. 1182 01:11:56,312 --> 01:11:58,178 Had you had many dealings with Mr Killick? 1183 01:11:58,247 --> 01:12:00,739 Oh, yeah. All the while. 1184 01:12:01,784 --> 01:12:02,928 At the start, he was a diamond, 1185 01:12:02,952 --> 01:12:06,013 his information helped us hold back the swill of criminals. 1186 01:12:06,088 --> 01:12:08,148 Then why'd you fire him as your informant? 1187 01:12:10,893 --> 01:12:13,089 It got so as he was too keen to please us. 1188 01:12:14,730 --> 01:12:16,631 We noticed he started naming villains 1189 01:12:16,732 --> 01:12:18,963 who he claimed were into stuff big time. 1190 01:12:20,770 --> 01:12:22,102 It just wasn't adding up. 1191 01:12:23,873 --> 01:12:26,138 Did Mr Killick invent Sonny McQueen? 1192 01:12:27,009 --> 01:12:31,003 The man you tried to convict for a crime you knew he didn't commit, 1193 01:12:31,113 --> 01:12:33,173 one that resulted in you going to prison. 1194 01:12:33,249 --> 01:12:35,809 I'm ashamed to say that I did try and put it on Sonny. 1195 01:12:38,487 --> 01:12:40,786 He was an out-and-out villain 1196 01:12:40,857 --> 01:12:43,622 who tried to corrupt me and other policemen. 1197 01:12:43,693 --> 01:12:46,424 I did overstep the mark when I tired to put him away. 1198 01:12:49,098 --> 01:12:52,034 I did wrong when I tried to see he got his just desserts. 1199 01:12:52,101 --> 01:12:55,560 According to the police file, Sonny McQueen had no criminal record 1200 01:12:55,671 --> 01:12:58,607 and no connection with criminal circles. 1201 01:12:58,708 --> 01:13:00,574 He was brought in by the police 1202 01:13:00,676 --> 01:13:04,010 who were investigating corruption within your squad. 1203 01:13:04,113 --> 01:13:07,242 No. No, no. 1204 01:13:08,818 --> 01:13:13,256 Sonny's sheet was pulled by corrupt detectives who were protecting him. 1205 01:13:13,689 --> 01:13:16,215 They wanted to put me away because I was too efficient. 1206 01:13:16,292 --> 01:13:20,195 Other policemen wanted to stop you doing your job well? 1207 01:13:20,263 --> 01:13:22,255 Too right, they did. 1208 01:13:22,331 --> 01:13:24,493 I was fitted up for no other reason. 1209 01:13:27,270 --> 01:13:28,829 I'm an honest man 1210 01:13:30,339 --> 01:13:32,808 who made one mistake that ended his career. 1211 01:13:32,909 --> 01:13:35,902 You ask anyone about my career. It was exemplary. 1212 01:13:36,779 --> 01:13:39,010 So, all of your other dealings with criminals 1213 01:13:39,115 --> 01:13:41,346 have been above board, have they, Mr Romano? 1214 01:13:41,417 --> 01:13:42,441 You may sneer. 1215 01:13:44,620 --> 01:13:46,179 But I was a hard-working policeman 1216 01:13:46,255 --> 01:13:48,451 who put a lot of dangerous villains away. 1217 01:13:48,557 --> 01:13:52,085 - You'd do anything to stop them. - You might not like what we did. 1218 01:13:53,863 --> 01:13:56,992 But that's how the likes of you get to sleep easy. 1219 01:13:57,066 --> 01:14:00,366 By putting plastic bags over the heads of innocent men? 1220 01:14:00,703 --> 01:14:04,037 Innocent? You pulling my chain? 1221 01:14:04,974 --> 01:14:07,739 So, when did you decide that the defendant was guilty? 1222 01:14:08,377 --> 01:14:11,279 Was it before or after he confessed? 1223 01:14:12,815 --> 01:14:15,444 - I knew from day one. - What, you knew he was guilty 1224 01:14:15,551 --> 01:14:18,988 before you arrested him, before you got him into that interrogation room? 1225 01:14:19,055 --> 01:14:20,751 Of course. 1226 01:14:20,823 --> 01:14:22,621 All I needed was his confession. 1227 01:14:22,692 --> 01:14:24,627 And it didn't matter how you got it. 1228 01:14:24,694 --> 01:14:28,187 You try keeping the streets safe from scum like him, 1229 01:14:28,264 --> 01:14:30,665 who'd do anything to feed their vile habits. 1230 01:14:31,834 --> 01:14:34,246 And all the while, you've got civil liberties' lawyers bleating, 1231 01:14:34,270 --> 01:14:36,671 "Unfair, unfair, unfair." 1232 01:14:36,739 --> 01:14:41,404 You want to save society? There's a price to pay. 1233 01:14:41,510 --> 01:14:45,311 Only the likes of you, the nice people with their clean hands, 1234 01:14:45,381 --> 01:14:46,849 they don't like the price. 1235 01:14:47,984 --> 01:14:50,715 You either have an efficient police force left alone to do its job, 1236 01:14:50,786 --> 01:14:54,882 or a deteriorating, crime-infested society. 1237 01:14:56,759 --> 01:14:59,251 Do you have any doubt about that statement, Mr Romano? 1238 01:14:59,362 --> 01:15:00,362 None at all. 1239 01:15:03,499 --> 01:15:04,728 Thank you, my Lord. 1240 01:15:08,437 --> 01:15:12,670 Did David Killick give you information that led you to arrest Denny McDowell? 1241 01:15:15,144 --> 01:15:16,144 Denny? 1242 01:15:18,147 --> 01:15:19,911 Yeah, he did. 1243 01:15:19,982 --> 01:15:22,952 Was he also someone you needed to put away at any price 1244 01:15:23,019 --> 01:15:25,750 - to make the streets safe? - Yeah. 1245 01:15:25,821 --> 01:15:29,952 By putting a plastic bag over his head to make him confess? 1246 01:15:31,894 --> 01:15:34,022 It was all within the rules, Judge. 1247 01:15:34,096 --> 01:15:37,931 Mr Romano, I'm not sure you're someone capable of understanding the rules. 1248 01:15:38,934 --> 01:15:40,232 That's what I did. 1249 01:15:43,739 --> 01:15:47,506 I am going to make one last attempt to get at the truth here. 1250 01:15:47,576 --> 01:15:50,740 I wouldn't lie. I'm an honest man, Judge. 1251 01:15:50,813 --> 01:15:53,078 Perhaps at some point you did want to be. 1252 01:15:53,149 --> 01:15:55,050 I can even believe that deep down inside of you, 1253 01:15:55,151 --> 01:15:57,177 you still have that yearning. 1254 01:15:57,253 --> 01:15:59,654 I can't absolve you for your crimes. 1255 01:15:59,755 --> 01:16:03,157 But I can promise to talk to the Director of Public Prosecutions 1256 01:16:03,225 --> 01:16:05,694 about offering you immunity from prosecution... 1257 01:16:05,795 --> 01:16:06,956 - My Lord! - No, wait. 1258 01:16:08,664 --> 01:16:12,897 Immunity from prosecution in exchange for the truth now. 1259 01:16:13,002 --> 01:16:15,267 This is the last opportunity I'm gonna give you. 1260 01:16:17,073 --> 01:16:18,439 I told you the truth. 1261 01:16:18,507 --> 01:16:21,033 Then walk away, Mr Romano, and take your chances. 1262 01:16:41,497 --> 01:16:42,795 Will I get immunity? 1263 01:16:42,865 --> 01:16:45,130 I shouldn't think it would be a problem. 1264 01:16:47,837 --> 01:16:51,035 Did you put a plastic bag over Terry Rogers' head? 1265 01:16:55,377 --> 01:16:57,539 It was the only way to get him to talk. 1266 01:17:00,282 --> 01:17:02,842 He's about as worthless as a man can be. 1267 01:17:04,553 --> 01:17:06,598 What does it matter if a junkie like that goes to prison? 1268 01:17:06,622 --> 01:17:09,820 His very existence is an offence. Prison is the best place for him. 1269 01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,655 Look at him now. We straightened him out by nicking him. 1270 01:17:18,300 --> 01:17:20,098 Tell me about Denny McDowell. 1271 01:17:21,537 --> 01:17:24,097 Well, he wasn't up to much. 1272 01:17:24,173 --> 01:17:26,267 Why we tolerate such people... 1273 01:17:29,612 --> 01:17:32,275 Denny was a robber who got away with it too often. 1274 01:17:32,348 --> 01:17:34,283 He deserved to go down. 1275 01:17:34,350 --> 01:17:38,344 So, the main plank of evidence which Mr Killick provided 1276 01:17:38,420 --> 01:17:40,753 was an invention, wasn't it? 1277 01:17:40,823 --> 01:17:43,156 Back then, we were doing a terrific job. 1278 01:17:44,393 --> 01:17:47,852 Then, they disband us, they put me inside and now you got anarchy. 1279 01:17:49,598 --> 01:17:51,624 Cameras in the streets don't stop it. 1280 01:17:51,700 --> 01:17:54,829 Criminals mustn't go to prison for crimes they didn't commit. 1281 01:17:54,904 --> 01:17:56,429 But they were active, Judge! 1282 01:17:57,706 --> 01:18:00,039 We were fighting a war against robbers in those days. 1283 01:18:00,109 --> 01:18:02,977 Just as we are against terrorists nowadays. 1284 01:18:03,078 --> 01:18:06,810 And in war, you do what you have to do to win. 1285 01:18:06,916 --> 01:18:09,977 You get on top of them before they overwhelm you. 1286 01:18:10,052 --> 01:18:14,990 We have a system in this country where the police collect the evidence. 1287 01:18:15,057 --> 01:18:19,392 The CPS evaluates it, the barristers argue that evidence, 1288 01:18:19,461 --> 01:18:22,488 and then the jury determines what the truth is. 1289 01:18:22,598 --> 01:18:25,898 We would find ourselves in an increasingly dangerous situation 1290 01:18:26,001 --> 01:18:29,233 if we put all of those decisions into the hands of one authority, 1291 01:18:29,305 --> 01:18:32,241 whether it's the police or the Home Secretary. 1292 01:18:33,042 --> 01:18:36,501 Because that is the root of dictatorship and totalitarianism. 1293 01:18:37,379 --> 01:18:38,870 And I won't have it. 1294 01:18:40,749 --> 01:18:42,479 I'll see counsel in chambers. 1295 01:18:44,119 --> 01:18:45,417 All rise. 1296 01:18:57,833 --> 01:18:59,802 Please sit down if you want to. 1297 01:19:00,836 --> 01:19:03,135 I'm going to recommend to the Attorney General 1298 01:19:03,239 --> 01:19:06,539 that all cases involving Troy Romano, where there is doubt, of course, 1299 01:19:06,642 --> 01:19:07,974 be thoroughly reassessed. 1300 01:19:08,077 --> 01:19:10,979 Personally, I doubt if any of the convictions are safe. 1301 01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,948 Meanwhile, I'm stopping this trial. 1302 01:19:14,016 --> 01:19:17,282 I'm going to direct the jury to find Mr Rogers not guilty. 1303 01:19:17,353 --> 01:19:21,552 But the informant acquired incriminating evidence on Rogers independently. 1304 01:19:21,624 --> 01:19:23,957 His evidence is as tainted as the police evidence. 1305 01:19:24,026 --> 01:19:25,026 It's not worth the risk. 1306 01:19:28,631 --> 01:19:34,298 Will we be prosecuting each of the policemen concerned? 1307 01:19:34,403 --> 01:19:36,099 Apart from Troy Romano, yes. 1308 01:19:37,339 --> 01:19:41,333 I hope you will permit me to express before the jury how much we, 1309 01:19:41,443 --> 01:19:44,470 on behalf of the Crown, agree with your decision. 1310 01:19:46,582 --> 01:19:48,380 Wouldn't miss it for the world, Maurice. 1311 01:19:48,484 --> 01:19:51,784 Personally, I'd recommend Romano for psychiatric examination. 1312 01:20:04,266 --> 01:20:05,710 - Congratulations! - Well done! 1313 01:20:05,734 --> 01:20:07,225 That's wonderful news. 1314 01:20:07,736 --> 01:20:09,671 Well done, mate. We'll see you in the pub, bye. 1315 01:20:10,339 --> 01:20:12,217 I don't know how I can thank you enough, Mrs Mills. 1316 01:20:12,241 --> 01:20:13,732 You did, Mr Rogers. 1317 01:20:13,842 --> 01:20:16,073 Hang on one second. Kate! 1318 01:20:16,779 --> 01:20:21,149 - Thank you for staying for that. - I hoped you'd go to prison. 1319 01:20:21,216 --> 01:20:23,208 Well, I though I would for a moment. 1320 01:20:23,686 --> 01:20:26,121 But you didn't do anything wrong, did you? 1321 01:20:29,124 --> 01:20:32,583 I left you and your mum. That was about as wrong as anything I could do. 1322 01:20:34,963 --> 01:20:38,195 It was me who told the police about you. 1323 01:20:39,835 --> 01:20:41,827 Couldn't have been anyone else, could it? 1324 01:20:43,339 --> 01:20:45,274 Why aren't you mad at me? 1325 01:20:46,175 --> 01:20:48,371 Look, I want to get out of this place. 1326 01:20:48,477 --> 01:20:50,117 Do you want to go and get a cup of coffee? 1327 01:20:52,881 --> 01:20:53,881 Not now, Dad. 1328 01:21:01,924 --> 01:21:04,189 Sometimes it takes more than one conversation. 1329 01:21:12,401 --> 01:21:14,393 The Lord Chancellor and the Attorney General 1330 01:21:14,470 --> 01:21:16,871 are furious about the course you've embarked upon. 1331 01:21:16,939 --> 01:21:19,431 Are you going to try and turn me front it, Joe? 1332 01:21:19,508 --> 01:21:21,704 Not for a moment. 1333 01:21:22,311 --> 01:21:24,712 Maybe I am being a bit too critical of the police. 1334 01:21:25,247 --> 01:21:26,340 Yes, you are. 1335 01:21:27,316 --> 01:21:29,114 I believe that an effective police service 1336 01:21:29,184 --> 01:21:31,551 requires support and encouragement, 1337 01:21:31,620 --> 01:21:33,589 not constant criticism. 1338 01:21:34,456 --> 01:21:37,756 We're all in need of examples, not critics. 1339 01:21:38,761 --> 01:21:41,629 There's something else I called about, the Denny McDowell appeal. 1340 01:21:42,765 --> 01:21:44,631 Some new facts have come to light. 1341 01:21:51,740 --> 01:21:54,073 Mimi, come here, baby. Good dog. 1342 01:21:54,643 --> 01:21:56,077 Did you hear the news? 1343 01:21:56,145 --> 01:21:58,478 The Appeal Court ordered Denny McDowell's immediate release 1344 01:21:58,547 --> 01:22:00,539 saying that his conviction was unsafe. 1345 01:22:00,616 --> 01:22:03,745 - Calls for a celebration. - Coffee's good, thanks. 1346 01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:06,918 I've still got work to do tonight. 1347 01:22:07,656 --> 01:22:10,057 Back to TWOCs and shoplifting. 1348 01:22:10,192 --> 01:22:12,593 That's being a barrister, Chaz. 1349 01:22:12,661 --> 01:22:15,256 Don't know if I've got the stamina, Dad. 1350 01:22:15,364 --> 01:22:17,356 I went to bed at 2 a.m. and then had to schlep out 1351 01:22:17,433 --> 01:22:20,403 to Chelmsford Crown Court for a bail application. 1352 01:22:23,071 --> 01:22:25,097 Why didn't Jo call me about McDowell? 1353 01:22:27,709 --> 01:22:29,302 I saw her earlier with Michael. 1354 01:22:30,179 --> 01:22:33,172 - I don't think he's very happy. - Can you wonder, poor lad. 1355 01:22:34,149 --> 01:22:36,311 What's gonna happen to those corrupt policemen 1356 01:22:36,385 --> 01:22:38,411 - you said should be arrested? - Nothing, 1357 01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:40,648 unless I issue a warrant for their arrest. 1358 01:22:40,756 --> 01:22:43,783 Make myself even more unpopular with the government. 1359 01:22:43,859 --> 01:22:45,919 When have you let that stop you before? 1360 01:22:48,163 --> 01:22:49,163 I'll do it. 1361 01:22:50,265 --> 01:22:51,289 I'll do it. 1362 01:22:56,805 --> 01:23:00,242 Well, I'm not sure it's such a good idea, Mrs Mills. 1363 01:23:00,309 --> 01:23:03,939 Judge shouldn't really meet with a former defendant, you know that. 1364 01:23:04,046 --> 01:23:05,844 I can only ask, Mrs Cooper. 1365 01:23:08,183 --> 01:23:09,207 Come in. 1366 01:23:09,318 --> 01:23:11,981 - Mrs Mills and Michael, Judge. - Hello. 1367 01:23:13,722 --> 01:23:16,191 We are going to see The Wizard of Oz tonight. 1368 01:23:16,258 --> 01:23:18,318 We wondered if you'd like to join us? 1369 01:23:19,027 --> 01:23:21,292 I'd love to, but I'm afraid... Thanks, Coop. 1370 01:23:21,396 --> 01:23:23,160 I don't get on very well with musicals. 1371 01:23:23,232 --> 01:23:26,794 I got very scared in one when I was a kid and I had to leave. 1372 01:23:26,869 --> 01:23:30,636 I think you'd enjoy it. We could hold your hands. 1373 01:23:32,641 --> 01:23:34,439 There's another reason I'm here, John. 1374 01:23:34,510 --> 01:23:36,570 Terry Rogers wants to ask you a favour. 1375 01:23:36,678 --> 01:23:38,056 I don't think that's a very good idea. 1376 01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:39,080 It is important. 1377 01:23:39,781 --> 01:23:42,774 I can't see a defendant who's acquittal I've just directed. 1378 01:23:43,685 --> 01:23:46,018 - He's waiting in court. - Only for you. 1379 01:23:51,226 --> 01:23:54,219 All right, but only with Coop and the court stenographer present. 1380 01:24:02,905 --> 01:24:03,998 Mr Rogers. 1381 01:24:07,009 --> 01:24:08,944 You have something important you want to tell me? 1382 01:24:09,745 --> 01:24:10,745 Yes, sir. 1383 01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:15,879 I saw that you issued a warrant for the arrest of those two policemen 1384 01:24:15,951 --> 01:24:18,386 and the one that retired. 1385 01:24:19,388 --> 01:24:21,653 I want to plead with you not to go after them. 1386 01:24:22,658 --> 01:24:25,321 You'd have to give me a very good reason why not. 1387 01:24:26,762 --> 01:24:29,163 Well, I can't give you a reason in law, sir. 1388 01:24:31,433 --> 01:24:34,164 I know, in a sense, they took away 16 years of my life, 1389 01:24:34,770 --> 01:24:36,830 me having to be on the run all that time. 1390 01:24:37,873 --> 01:24:40,308 But, in another way, they gave me back my life. 1391 01:24:40,409 --> 01:24:41,741 That wasn't their intention. 1392 01:24:43,946 --> 01:24:45,642 It may have been, sir. 1393 01:24:46,348 --> 01:24:48,180 Mr Craddock's intention, at least. 1394 01:24:50,185 --> 01:24:52,017 It was him that helped me to escape. 1395 01:24:54,222 --> 01:24:56,555 And what happened as a result was that 1396 01:24:58,193 --> 01:24:59,320 I found myself. 1397 01:25:00,762 --> 01:25:03,698 I'm seeing Kate again, and my ex-wife. 1398 01:25:03,799 --> 01:25:07,167 She said that she's seen something in me she saw in the beginning. 1399 01:25:07,235 --> 01:25:11,036 They did put a plastic bag over your head and force you to confess. 1400 01:25:12,140 --> 01:25:13,140 Yeah. 1401 01:25:18,046 --> 01:25:19,046 Dad. 1402 01:25:23,619 --> 01:25:25,520 But not to something that I didn't do. 1403 01:25:26,521 --> 01:25:28,547 I was there on that robbery. 1404 01:25:31,326 --> 01:25:34,990 How I got there, I just don't know. I was completely off my head. 1405 01:25:35,530 --> 01:25:37,008 I thought I'd gone there to collect some drugs. 1406 01:25:37,032 --> 01:25:38,660 I know that's no excuse, 1407 01:25:41,903 --> 01:25:43,735 but I'm sorry I said I wasn't guilty. 1408 01:25:44,740 --> 01:25:46,317 Having met Kate again, I couldn't bear to wait 1409 01:25:46,341 --> 01:25:48,242 another 16 years to get to know her. 1410 01:25:49,578 --> 01:25:53,106 It was she that persuaded me to come and tell you. 1411 01:25:56,952 --> 01:25:58,511 Now you've been acquitted, Mr Rogers, 1412 01:25:58,587 --> 01:26:01,267 there's nothing that I or anybody else can do about your confession. 1413 01:26:02,791 --> 01:26:05,022 That doesn't absolve their behaviour, though. 1414 01:26:06,161 --> 01:26:08,062 I was a very different person then. 1415 01:26:08,163 --> 01:26:10,860 I'm sure they were very different men when they 1416 01:26:10,966 --> 01:26:12,958 forced a plastic bag over my head. 1417 01:26:14,703 --> 01:26:16,865 They were under pressure to get results. 1418 01:26:16,938 --> 01:26:19,737 It's what society wanted, after all, was to stop armed robberies. 1419 01:26:21,109 --> 01:26:22,873 Why did Craddock help you to escape? 1420 01:26:25,881 --> 01:26:27,873 I gave him 1421 01:26:27,949 --> 01:26:30,418 the names of about a dozen detectives 1422 01:26:30,519 --> 01:26:32,639 who were busting drug dealers, confiscating their gear 1423 01:26:32,721 --> 01:26:34,553 and selling it back to other dealers. 1424 01:26:36,758 --> 01:26:40,024 But I like to think it wasn't just that. 1425 01:26:41,363 --> 01:26:44,356 Maybe he saw something in me that, up to that point, I hadn't seen myself. 1426 01:26:44,433 --> 01:26:45,943 He must have had it in him or he wouldn't have 1427 01:26:45,967 --> 01:26:48,801 risked his life to save those two people like he did. 1428 01:26:49,905 --> 01:26:52,932 Someone gave me a chance when I was on the run. 1429 01:26:53,041 --> 01:26:54,509 That's all any of us need. 1430 01:26:55,510 --> 01:26:57,741 The right chance and a bit of compassion. 1431 01:26:59,481 --> 01:27:03,179 Well, there's only one way to put your theory to the test, Mr Rogers. 1432 01:27:03,285 --> 01:27:04,617 And that's to set them free. 1433 01:27:18,366 --> 01:27:20,326 You'd never get another ticket to The Wizard of Oz 1434 01:27:20,368 --> 01:27:22,462 at this short notice, anyway. 1435 01:27:25,841 --> 01:27:28,174 Time to face your fears, John.119469

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