All language subtitles for We Steal Secrets The Story of WikiLeaks, 2013-EngL

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranî)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil)
pt-PT Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish Download
es-419 Spanish (Latin American)
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:01:03,000 {\an8}WE STEAL SECRETS- THE STORY OF WIKILEAKS, 2013 3 00:00:42,626 --> 00:00:44,799 Anti-nuclear groups go to court to try to 4 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,843 block Thursday's scheduled lift-off 5 00:00:46,964 --> 00:00:50,719 of the shuttle Atlantis with its payload of radioactive plutonium. 6 00:00:50,801 --> 00:00:52,769 The shuttle and legal challenges. 7 00:00:52,844 --> 00:00:54,517 NASA lawyers must go to court tomorrow 8 00:00:54,638 --> 00:00:57,812 to help the shuttle Atlantis and its Galileo spacecraft 9 00:00:57,891 --> 00:00:59,143 escape from a unique environmental challenge. 10 00:00:59,268 --> 00:01:01,145 The mission could be stalled on the launch pad. 11 00:01:01,228 --> 00:01:03,481 At the center of the controversy is Galileo, 12 00:01:03,564 --> 00:01:05,066 a plutonium-powered space probe 13 00:01:05,148 --> 00:01:06,991 scheduled to be launched from the shuttle's payload. 14 00:01:07,067 --> 00:01:09,661 The argument's being made that in the event of an accident, 15 00:01:09,736 --> 00:01:12,489 cancer-causing plutonium particles might be spread 16 00:01:12,573 --> 00:01:14,951 over a wide area of Florida. 17 00:01:15,492 --> 00:01:16,835 October 1989 18 00:01:16,910 --> 00:01:21,256 JOHN McMAHON: It was a Monday morning, a few days before launching Galileo. 19 00:01:21,415 --> 00:01:24,419 My management grabbed me as soon as I came in. 20 00:01:25,669 --> 00:01:28,639 And they said that there was a worm that had been detected 21 00:01:28,714 --> 00:01:30,341 somewhere out on the network. 22 00:01:31,842 --> 00:01:34,721 A worm is a self-replicating program. 23 00:01:34,803 --> 00:01:38,808 It actually breaks into a computer and jumps from system to system. 24 00:01:39,516 --> 00:01:41,894 At the time, they still were very uncommon. 25 00:01:42,728 --> 00:01:44,196 We didn't know what it would do. 26 00:01:44,271 --> 00:01:45,864 We knew it was malicious. 27 00:01:46,940 --> 00:01:48,487 If the worm got into a machine, 28 00:01:48,567 --> 00:01:52,197 it would change the announcement message and spelled out, 29 00:01:52,279 --> 00:01:54,953 in little lines and little characters, 30 00:01:55,699 --> 00:01:58,953 W-A-N-K, 31 00:01:59,036 --> 00:02:02,586 WANK, Worms Against Nuclear Killers. 32 00:02:02,664 --> 00:02:05,884 And below that, "You talk of times of peace for all, 33 00:02:05,959 --> 00:02:07,961 "and then prepare for war." 34 00:02:08,920 --> 00:02:10,513 Oh, my God, what the hell is this? 35 00:02:10,589 --> 00:02:12,432 Most people didn't know what the word "WANK" meant. 36 00:02:14,217 --> 00:02:15,639 The worm made a panic. 37 00:02:16,094 --> 00:02:19,348 You would be logged into your machine and you'd get a message, 38 00:02:19,431 --> 00:02:22,310 "Someone is watching you... Vote anarchist!" 39 00:02:22,392 --> 00:02:23,769 And suddenly they'd see, 40 00:02:23,852 --> 00:02:26,947 "Deleted file-1, deleted file-2, deleted file-3, " 41 00:02:27,022 --> 00:02:29,445 and just keep going and going and going. 42 00:02:29,566 --> 00:02:33,070 And it would change the passwords, so you couldn't get in to stop it. 43 00:02:34,237 --> 00:02:35,739 It scared the hell out of a lot of people. 44 00:02:36,573 --> 00:02:39,873 They were afraid that WANK would cause a launch failure, 45 00:02:39,951 --> 00:02:43,000 where this nuclear battery was suddenly 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,082 flying away from an exploding spacecraft. 47 00:02:45,624 --> 00:02:47,126 All systems are go. 48 00:02:47,250 --> 00:02:49,628 Eleven, ten, nine... 49 00:02:49,753 --> 00:02:51,300 McMAHON: How in the name of hell are we going to stop it? 50 00:02:51,421 --> 00:02:53,344 And how far has it gone already? 51 00:02:53,423 --> 00:02:55,517 We have a go for main engine start. 52 00:02:55,592 --> 00:02:58,436 Six, five, four, 53 00:02:58,553 --> 00:03:01,432 three, two, one. 54 00:03:01,765 --> 00:03:04,439 We have ignition and lift-off of Atlantis, 55 00:03:04,559 --> 00:03:07,654 and the Galileo spacecraft bound for Jupiter! 56 00:03:11,608 --> 00:03:13,531 The shuttle launched without incident. 57 00:03:13,610 --> 00:03:15,612 But the WANK worm continued to spread, 58 00:03:15,737 --> 00:03:19,617 affecting over 300, 000 computer terminals around the world. 59 00:03:20,450 --> 00:03:25,331 Its purpose, as a warning, weapon, or political prank, was never discovered. 60 00:03:25,997 --> 00:03:29,877 Investigators traced the origins of the WANK worm to Australia. 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,554 National police suspected a small group of hackers 62 00:03:32,629 --> 00:03:35,883 in the city of Melbourne, and then the trail went cold. 63 00:03:36,550 --> 00:03:39,804 But a key clue turned out to be in the message itself. 64 00:03:39,886 --> 00:03:43,436 There was a lyric from the Australian band, Midnight Oil, 65 00:03:43,974 --> 00:03:45,226 a favorite of the man 66 00:03:45,308 --> 00:03:48,152 who would become the country's most infamous hacker. 67 00:03:51,732 --> 00:03:52,779 Yeah. 68 00:04:14,171 --> 00:04:16,344 There's never been anything quite like it. 69 00:04:16,423 --> 00:04:20,599 A mountain of secrets dumped into the public domain by a website... 70 00:04:20,677 --> 00:04:23,271 Julian Assange. Is he a hero to freedom 71 00:04:23,346 --> 00:04:25,144 or is he a terrorist who should be prosecuted? 72 00:04:25,223 --> 00:04:26,691 He's an active enemy combatant 73 00:04:26,767 --> 00:04:29,611 who's engaged in information warfare against the United States... 74 00:04:29,686 --> 00:04:32,109 Was it not once considered patriotic 75 00:04:32,189 --> 00:04:35,534 to stand up to our government when it's wrong? 76 00:04:45,452 --> 00:04:47,921 Should the United States do something to stop Mr. Assange? 77 00:04:47,996 --> 00:04:50,090 I think Assange should be assassinated, actually... 78 00:04:50,165 --> 00:04:51,212 No, he's a hero... 79 00:04:51,291 --> 00:04:53,885 What he did was extremely devastating... 80 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,712 This guy's going to strike again. 81 00:04:56,338 --> 00:05:00,718 Free Julian Assange! Free Julian Assange! 82 00:05:12,896 --> 00:05:14,239 What drives you? 83 00:05:16,775 --> 00:05:19,153 Well, I like being creative. 84 00:05:19,236 --> 00:05:21,614 I mean, I've been an inventor, 85 00:05:21,738 --> 00:05:23,957 designing systems and processes for a long time. 86 00:05:25,242 --> 00:05:28,291 I also like defending victims. 87 00:05:29,746 --> 00:05:33,751 And I'm a combative person, so I like crushing bastards. 88 00:05:35,043 --> 00:05:40,265 And so this sort of profession combines all those three things. 89 00:05:40,382 --> 00:05:45,730 So it is personally deeply satisfying to me. 90 00:05:46,137 --> 00:05:51,268 But is crushing bastards, in its own right, a just cause? 91 00:05:52,644 --> 00:05:54,612 Depends on the bastard. 92 00:05:55,772 --> 00:05:59,117 I see the story entirely as one man against the world. 93 00:05:59,526 --> 00:06:00,618 One man against the world. 94 00:06:00,861 --> 00:06:03,205 Julian is this very radical visionary. 95 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:05,123 Julian was onto something really extraordinary. 96 00:06:05,198 --> 00:06:08,623 He's an extremely clever, brave, dedicated, hard-working guy 97 00:06:08,702 --> 00:06:11,376 with a brilliant idea that he managed to execute. 98 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,554 Julian Assange was obsessed with secrets, 99 00:06:19,629 --> 00:06:23,634 keeping his own and unlocking those of governments and corporations. 100 00:06:25,302 --> 00:06:27,976 The Internet is not a good place for secrets. 101 00:06:30,348 --> 00:06:33,318 Cyberspace is like a galaxy of passageways, 102 00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:35,771 constantly moving streams of data. 103 00:06:35,854 --> 00:06:38,903 With a simple computer, anyone can enter and explore. 104 00:06:39,733 --> 00:06:42,862 That's what Julian Assange liked to do, explore. 105 00:06:43,194 --> 00:06:46,915 He liked to use trap doors to enter where he wasn't supposed to go, 106 00:06:46,990 --> 00:06:49,618 to find secrets and expose them. 107 00:06:49,701 --> 00:06:53,422 He built a machine for leaking secrets and called it "WikiLeaks." 108 00:06:53,496 --> 00:06:56,340 The website boasted an electronic drop box 109 00:06:56,416 --> 00:06:58,589 that could receive secrets sent by people 110 00:06:58,668 --> 00:07:00,887 who didn't want to reveal who they were. 111 00:07:01,504 --> 00:07:03,598 Once WikiLeaks had the secrets, 112 00:07:03,673 --> 00:07:06,973 it would publish them across servers, domain names, and networks 113 00:07:07,052 --> 00:07:11,057 so numerous that the information could never be taken down. 114 00:07:14,351 --> 00:07:17,651 So this is what you'll see if you go to the front page of the website- 115 00:07:17,729 --> 00:07:20,608 This is WikiLeaks, we help you get the truth out. 116 00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:25,112 We want to enable information to go out to the public 117 00:07:25,195 --> 00:07:28,324 that has the greatest chance of achieving 118 00:07:28,406 --> 00:07:31,956 positive political reform in the world. 119 00:07:32,035 --> 00:07:35,039 To get things to the public you need to protect sources 120 00:07:35,121 --> 00:07:36,293 who want to disclose, 121 00:07:36,373 --> 00:07:42,380 and you also need to protect your ability to publish in the face of attack. 122 00:07:52,097 --> 00:07:55,852 His thinking is, how can we destroy corruption? 123 00:07:55,934 --> 00:07:57,652 It's the whistle-blower. 124 00:07:58,979 --> 00:08:03,701 Julian Assange is neither a right-wing libertarian nor a standard leftist. 125 00:08:04,192 --> 00:08:06,866 I think he's a humanitarian anarchist. 126 00:08:06,945 --> 00:08:09,664 A kind of John Lennon-like revolutionary, 127 00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:11,036 dreaming of a better world. 128 00:08:11,282 --> 00:08:16,630 If we are to produce a more civilized society, a more just society, 129 00:08:16,913 --> 00:08:19,587 it has to be based upon the truth... 130 00:08:19,958 --> 00:08:21,960 When I heard Julian speak, 131 00:08:22,085 --> 00:08:25,635 I was struck by his vaulting idealism 132 00:08:25,755 --> 00:08:28,474 and forthrightness about what he believed in. 133 00:08:29,676 --> 00:08:32,850 Totally uncompromising about freedom of speech. 134 00:08:33,096 --> 00:08:36,441 I agreed almost entirely with everything he said, 135 00:08:36,599 --> 00:08:39,944 and I'd never experienced that before. 136 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,193 So I thought he was amazing. 137 00:08:42,272 --> 00:08:45,867 Every week we achieve major victories 138 00:08:46,026 --> 00:08:51,123 in bringing the unjust to account and helping the just. 139 00:09:00,165 --> 00:09:02,509 Before WikiLeaks was front page news, 140 00:09:02,667 --> 00:09:04,669 there were some smaller successes. 141 00:09:05,003 --> 00:09:08,382 The website published evidence of a tax-evading Swiss bank, 142 00:09:08,673 --> 00:09:10,721 government corruption and murder in Kenya, 143 00:09:11,342 --> 00:09:14,642 and a secret company report on illegal toxic waste dumping. 144 00:09:17,265 --> 00:09:20,735 One early leak was from the National Security Agency. 145 00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:23,438 Frantic text messages from desperate workers 146 00:09:23,521 --> 00:09:26,320 trying to save lives on 9/11. 147 00:09:31,738 --> 00:09:35,493 9/11 turned out to be a watershed moment for the world of secrets, 148 00:09:35,992 --> 00:09:38,666 both for the leakers and the secret keepers. 149 00:09:44,751 --> 00:09:49,006 After 9/11 we were accused of not being willing to share information 150 00:09:49,172 --> 00:09:51,015 rapidly and facilely enough, 151 00:09:51,174 --> 00:09:53,677 and we've pushed that very far forward. 152 00:09:54,177 --> 00:09:57,056 Michael Hayden is an expert on secrets. 153 00:09:57,263 --> 00:10:00,984 He's been the director of the National Security Agency and the CIA. 154 00:10:01,059 --> 00:10:02,561 In terms of our focus, 155 00:10:02,727 --> 00:10:06,277 the default option, in a practical sense, has been to sharing 156 00:10:06,356 --> 00:10:10,907 rather than caging information and making it more difficult to flow. 157 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:17,125 In the years after 9/11, facing enemies it didn't understand, 158 00:10:17,367 --> 00:10:20,086 the U.S. government started sharing more information 159 00:10:20,286 --> 00:10:21,879 between different agencies. 160 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:27,132 At the same time, the U.S. also started to keep more secrets from its citizens. 161 00:10:27,418 --> 00:10:28,886 In data centers that sprang up all over the country, 162 00:10:28,962 --> 00:10:31,056 NSA/CSS Cryptologic Center 163 00:10:31,172 --> 00:10:32,173 the U.S. launched a massive expansion 164 00:10:32,257 --> 00:10:34,510 of its operations to gather secrets. 165 00:10:34,843 --> 00:10:37,346 The amount of classified documents per year increased from eight million 166 00:10:37,428 --> 00:10:38,645 Office of the Director of National Intelligence 167 00:10:38,721 --> 00:10:40,223 to 76 million. 168 00:10:40,390 --> 00:10:42,142 The number of people with access to classified information 169 00:10:42,225 --> 00:10:43,727 NSA National Business Park 170 00:10:43,852 --> 00:10:45,695 soared to more than four million. 171 00:10:45,770 --> 00:10:48,899 And the government began to intercept phone calls and emails 172 00:10:49,023 --> 00:10:51,276 at a rate of 60, 000 per second. 173 00:10:52,402 --> 00:10:55,246 Nobody knows how much money is involved, 174 00:10:55,572 --> 00:10:56,789 it's a secret. 175 00:10:56,906 --> 00:10:59,284 Not even Congress knows the entire budget. 176 00:11:00,827 --> 00:11:05,674 The classification system can be a very effective national security tool 177 00:11:05,832 --> 00:11:09,382 when it's used as intended, when it's used with precision. 178 00:11:10,003 --> 00:11:11,425 During the Bush Administration, 179 00:11:11,546 --> 00:11:14,015 Bill Leonard was the classification czar, 180 00:11:14,424 --> 00:11:17,928 the man charged with overseeing what information should be secret. 181 00:11:18,261 --> 00:11:21,515 The whole information environment has radically changed. 182 00:11:21,681 --> 00:11:22,933 Just like we produce more information 183 00:11:23,057 --> 00:11:25,526 than we ever produced in the history of mankind, 184 00:11:25,602 --> 00:11:29,357 we produce more secrets than we've ever produced in the history of mankind, 185 00:11:29,439 --> 00:11:31,988 and yet we never fundamentally reassessed 186 00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:35,324 our ability to control secrets. 187 00:11:36,654 --> 00:11:39,328 In this environment of expanding secrecy, 188 00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:42,164 Assange went fishing for secrets to publish. 189 00:11:42,452 --> 00:11:46,173 To bait whistle-blowers, he published a list of the most wanted leaks. 190 00:11:48,041 --> 00:11:50,669 Those of us who have been in the business a long time 191 00:11:50,835 --> 00:11:52,553 knew that this day would come, 192 00:11:52,795 --> 00:11:56,800 knew that because we'd removed all the watertight doors on the ship, 193 00:11:56,966 --> 00:12:00,345 once it started taking on water, it would really be in trouble. 194 00:13:01,781 --> 00:13:04,284 In Iceland, winter is never easy, 195 00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:07,249 but this year much of the pain is manmade. 196 00:13:08,621 --> 00:13:11,545 Last October, all three of Iceland's banks failed. 197 00:13:11,874 --> 00:13:16,095 Normally stoic and proper Icelanders have started protesting. 198 00:13:17,922 --> 00:13:22,268 In July 2009, WikiLeaks fueled a growing popular rage 199 00:13:22,427 --> 00:13:25,727 when it published a confidential internal memo from Kaupthing, 200 00:13:25,888 --> 00:13:28,607 the largest failed bank in the country. 201 00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:31,729 WikiLeaks had got hold of the Kaupthing loan book, 202 00:13:31,894 --> 00:13:34,989 which showed what was going on in a lot of those Icelandic banks. 203 00:13:35,064 --> 00:13:38,284 They had credit ratings which were completely at odds 204 00:13:38,443 --> 00:13:40,616 with their actual credit worthiness. 205 00:13:40,778 --> 00:13:42,576 It was all insiders, 206 00:13:42,739 --> 00:13:45,618 they took out billions of dollars out of this bank 207 00:13:45,783 --> 00:13:49,629 and bankrupted the thing shortly before it went bankrupt anyways. 208 00:13:50,747 --> 00:13:53,626 A German IT technician, Daniel Domscheit-Berg, 209 00:13:53,916 --> 00:13:56,795 became the second full-time member of WikiLeaks. 210 00:13:57,420 --> 00:14:02,426 We met online first, and then we met personally in December 2007 211 00:14:02,633 --> 00:14:05,807 at the Chaos Communication Congress in Berlin. 212 00:14:05,970 --> 00:14:09,816 He was not the stereotypical hacker you would expect, 213 00:14:09,974 --> 00:14:11,066 looked completely differently, 214 00:14:11,142 --> 00:14:14,692 he was interested in completely different topics. 215 00:14:15,938 --> 00:14:19,943 For Daniel and Julian, the Kaupthing leak was their biggest success to date. 216 00:14:20,109 --> 00:14:23,283 The loan book came out and took the country by storm. 217 00:14:23,529 --> 00:14:27,454 RUV, the national broadcaster, was going to do a big segment on it. 218 00:14:27,784 --> 00:14:30,207 And they got slapped with an injunction. 219 00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:33,127 This evening, we had intended on releasing a full report 220 00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:35,629 regarding the enormous credit facilities made available by Kaupthing 221 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:37,969 to the various companies of its shareholders. 222 00:14:38,044 --> 00:14:39,637 However, we are prevented from doing so this evening... 223 00:14:39,754 --> 00:14:41,802 It was the first time in our history 224 00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:45,806 that a gag order was placed on the state TV not to produce that news 225 00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:47,887 just before they were supposed to produce it. 226 00:14:48,012 --> 00:14:50,982 So instead of doing nothing they decided to put the website up. 227 00:14:53,309 --> 00:14:55,107 Up pops WikiLeaks- org 228 00:14:55,186 --> 00:14:57,985 with this Kaupthing loan book front and center, 229 00:14:58,314 --> 00:15:00,737 and everybody goes online and checks it out. 230 00:15:01,526 --> 00:15:05,531 The guys at WikiLeaks definitely get massive props for that. 231 00:15:08,116 --> 00:15:11,416 Later that year, a group of young cyber-activists from Iceland 232 00:15:11,577 --> 00:15:14,501 invited representatives of the WikiLeaks organization 233 00:15:14,705 --> 00:15:17,049 to come speak at a conference in Reykjavik. 234 00:15:17,208 --> 00:15:19,210 Iceland and WikiLeaks really fit. 235 00:15:19,419 --> 00:15:22,719 This is something we really need in our society, the media failed us. 236 00:15:22,922 --> 00:15:24,924 So I was excited to meet them. 237 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:28,644 Up until the day before the conference, 238 00:15:28,803 --> 00:15:30,055 we didn't know who was going to come. 239 00:15:30,304 --> 00:15:33,399 It could be a massive organization or it could be a tiny organization. 240 00:15:33,558 --> 00:15:35,105 Hello? Um... 241 00:15:35,518 --> 00:15:36,815 Does that work? Okay. 242 00:15:37,145 --> 00:15:39,568 In the beginning we had no funding at all, 243 00:15:39,772 --> 00:15:44,027 we were not set up with manpower nor organizationally, 244 00:15:44,193 --> 00:15:45,866 so there was a lot to improvise. 245 00:15:46,195 --> 00:15:48,869 WikiLeaks, we haven't mentioned that what we are doing right now 246 00:15:49,031 --> 00:15:50,248 is still a proof of concept. 247 00:15:50,408 --> 00:15:53,912 So in technical terms, we are in a beta stage, so it's just... 248 00:15:54,871 --> 00:15:56,589 We're not in a beta stage. Well... 249 00:15:57,915 --> 00:16:01,510 We're not in a beta stage as far as... We're in a Gmail beta stage. 250 00:16:03,045 --> 00:16:07,551 So we 're not in a beta stage in terms of our ability to protect people. 251 00:16:07,717 --> 00:16:09,469 In terms of... 252 00:16:09,552 --> 00:16:10,724 Um... 253 00:16:12,555 --> 00:16:14,182 You could let me finish my sentence. 254 00:16:14,265 --> 00:16:15,357 Okay. 255 00:16:15,433 --> 00:16:17,777 It was a really awkward experience in some way 256 00:16:17,935 --> 00:16:21,565 because we were just so famous over there. 257 00:16:21,898 --> 00:16:24,071 You work for WikiLeaks. 258 00:16:24,233 --> 00:16:26,076 WikiLeaks is now very famous in Iceland 259 00:16:26,235 --> 00:16:29,785 because of the big Kaupthing leak. 260 00:16:30,114 --> 00:16:32,913 We got this letter from the Kaupthing lawyers, 261 00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:37,585 telling us that under Icelandic banking secrecy law 262 00:16:37,747 --> 00:16:39,590 we deserved one year in prison. 263 00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:41,592 So we thought we'd come to Iceland... 264 00:16:41,834 --> 00:16:42,926 And see for ourselves. 265 00:16:43,044 --> 00:16:44,762 ...and see for ourselves. 266 00:16:49,717 --> 00:16:51,344 The banksters need to be put on public trial 267 00:16:51,427 --> 00:16:53,225 and given the justice they deserve. 268 00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:56,023 More power to you, Iceland! 269 00:16:57,183 --> 00:16:59,686 Julian teamed up with Birgitta Jonsdottir, 270 00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:01,399 a poet turned politician, 271 00:17:01,562 --> 00:17:05,612 to hatch a plan to turn Iceland into a haven for freedom of information. 272 00:17:06,108 --> 00:17:09,453 But Julian was also preoccupied with a new source, 273 00:17:09,779 --> 00:17:13,374 one with access to classified U.S. government materials, 274 00:17:13,616 --> 00:17:15,368 and a willingness to leak them. 275 00:17:24,043 --> 00:17:25,090 See all those people standing down there... 276 00:17:25,169 --> 00:17:27,797 There's more that keep walking by and one of them has a weapon. 277 00:17:35,054 --> 00:17:37,056 We have five to six individuals with AK-47s. 278 00:17:37,306 --> 00:17:39,024 Request permission to engage. 279 00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:43,480 It was an on board video of an Apache helicopter gunship on patrol in Iraq. 280 00:17:45,022 --> 00:17:46,774 I can't get 'em now because they're behind that building. 281 00:17:46,857 --> 00:17:49,861 A half-mile above the ground, it was invisible to the people down below. 282 00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:52,196 That's a weapon. 283 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,497 He's got an RPG. 284 00:17:53,573 --> 00:17:54,825 We got a guy with an RPG. 285 00:17:54,907 --> 00:17:55,954 I'm gonna fire. 286 00:17:56,617 --> 00:17:58,164 You are free to engage, over. 287 00:17:59,370 --> 00:18:00,417 Light 'em all up. 288 00:18:03,624 --> 00:18:05,092 Keep shooting. 289 00:18:06,711 --> 00:18:07,758 Keep shooting. 290 00:18:09,338 --> 00:18:10,840 Keep shooting. 291 00:18:13,843 --> 00:18:15,060 Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards. 292 00:18:15,261 --> 00:18:17,684 Two of the men killed worked for the Reuters news agency. 293 00:18:18,889 --> 00:18:19,936 Nice. 294 00:18:20,016 --> 00:18:22,189 What had looked like a weapon from the sky, 295 00:18:22,351 --> 00:18:24,445 turned out to be the long lens of a camera. 296 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:25,567 Bushmaster. 297 00:18:25,688 --> 00:18:28,407 We have a van that's approaching and picking up the bodies. 298 00:18:29,609 --> 00:18:30,701 Yeah, we're trying to get permission to engage. 299 00:18:30,776 --> 00:18:31,823 This is Bushmaster-Seven. 300 00:18:31,902 --> 00:18:32,949 Roger, engage! 301 00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:34,747 One-Eight. Engage. Clear. 302 00:18:35,197 --> 00:18:36,540 Come on. 303 00:18:39,035 --> 00:18:40,332 Clear. 304 00:18:42,246 --> 00:18:43,338 Clear. 305 00:18:43,414 --> 00:18:45,007 We're engaging... 306 00:18:45,833 --> 00:18:46,834 Oh, yeah, look at that. 307 00:18:46,917 --> 00:18:48,009 Right through the windshield! 308 00:18:49,253 --> 00:18:51,051 Inside the van were two children, 309 00:18:51,255 --> 00:18:53,053 who were wounded in the hail of cannon fire. 310 00:18:54,550 --> 00:18:55,972 It's their fault for bringing their kids to a battle. 311 00:18:56,052 --> 00:18:57,099 That's right. 312 00:19:13,819 --> 00:19:17,915 In March 2010, Assange and a team of Icelandic activists 313 00:19:18,074 --> 00:19:20,042 holed up in a rented house in Reykjavik 314 00:19:20,242 --> 00:19:22,586 to edit and prepare the video for publication. 315 00:19:26,582 --> 00:19:28,755 We did most of our work here. 316 00:19:29,168 --> 00:19:31,591 This was the operational table. 317 00:19:37,259 --> 00:19:41,981 McCARTHY: It was chaotic and hectic and all sorts of varyingly frayed nerves. 318 00:19:42,556 --> 00:19:45,150 Eventually I went out and bought a bunch of Post-its 319 00:19:45,309 --> 00:19:49,530 and kind of tried to figure out what it was we needed to do. 320 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:55,195 My horrific task was to go through the entire movie 321 00:19:55,403 --> 00:19:57,747 and pull out the stills to put on the website. 322 00:19:57,947 --> 00:20:00,996 And at the same time I was learning who these people were 323 00:20:01,158 --> 00:20:04,708 that I could see their flesh being torn off their bodies. 324 00:20:06,539 --> 00:20:07,631 Photographs taken by US soldier 325 00:20:07,707 --> 00:20:09,209 The Army claimed it was engaged in 326 00:20:09,291 --> 00:20:12,295 "combat operations against a hostile force." 327 00:20:12,545 --> 00:20:15,048 But it also began a criminal investigation. 328 00:20:15,297 --> 00:20:17,720 It turned out that the driver of the van 329 00:20:17,925 --> 00:20:20,724 had been a father taking his children to school. 330 00:20:21,137 --> 00:20:22,980 I think I just drove over a body. 331 00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:24,648 - Really? - Yeah. 332 00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:33,149 The curtains were drawn. 333 00:20:34,567 --> 00:20:39,414 But I never had any sense that we were being watched, not physically. 334 00:20:40,531 --> 00:20:42,374 But we joked a lot about it. 335 00:20:42,533 --> 00:20:45,207 We were becoming super paranoid. 336 00:20:45,870 --> 00:20:47,247 It wasn't really cloak-and-dagger stuff, 337 00:20:47,496 --> 00:20:50,170 it was just yet another cool project. 338 00:20:50,374 --> 00:20:53,719 Everybody thinks that we were sort of huddled over the computers 339 00:20:53,878 --> 00:20:55,880 and it was all very serious. 340 00:20:56,505 --> 00:20:58,724 We actually had an incredible time. 341 00:20:58,883 --> 00:21:01,887 The second last night we all went out 342 00:21:02,052 --> 00:21:05,602 and we were all wearing the same silver snowsuits. 343 00:21:06,348 --> 00:21:09,192 WikiLeaks! 344 00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:11,483 Lava-leaks! 345 00:21:15,149 --> 00:21:17,368 It was an incredibly intimate time, 346 00:21:17,526 --> 00:21:19,574 because we were all working closely, we were working on something 347 00:21:19,737 --> 00:21:23,082 that we knew that could get us all in very serious trouble. 348 00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:27,169 And we were all willing to take that consequence. 349 00:21:30,873 --> 00:21:33,171 So my name is Julian Assange. 350 00:21:33,334 --> 00:21:35,336 I am the editor of WikiLeaks. 351 00:21:35,878 --> 00:21:37,130 Could you spell your name? 352 00:21:37,213 --> 00:21:38,886 Julian, with an A. 353 00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:41,217 Assange. 354 00:21:41,509 --> 00:21:44,012 What's clear about him is he became a public figure 355 00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:45,813 extraordinarily quickly. 356 00:21:46,514 --> 00:21:49,063 It was really April 2010 357 00:21:49,225 --> 00:21:51,478 where he went from relative obscurity 358 00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:53,817 into an absolutely central world figure. 359 00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:56,653 And he did it deliberately. He knew what he was doing. 360 00:21:56,857 --> 00:22:00,907 He decides to take on the American state, in public. 361 00:22:02,238 --> 00:22:05,959 The team posted the unedited video on the WikiLeaks website. 362 00:22:06,033 --> 00:22:07,660 They also posted a shorter version 363 00:22:07,827 --> 00:22:10,046 edited for maximum impact. 364 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,589 Julian titled it "Collateral Murder. " 365 00:22:13,582 --> 00:22:17,212 And no surprise, it's getting reaction in Washington. 366 00:22:17,336 --> 00:22:21,386 Our military will take every precaution necessary 367 00:22:21,465 --> 00:22:25,015 to ensure the safety and security of civilians. 368 00:22:25,219 --> 00:22:29,224 The behavior of the pilots is like they are playing a computer game. 369 00:22:29,974 --> 00:22:31,942 Their desire was simply to kill. 370 00:22:32,309 --> 00:22:35,609 The Pentagon says that it sees no reason to investigate this any further. 371 00:22:35,771 --> 00:22:38,274 Its own inquiry found that the journalists' cameras 372 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,363 were mistaken for weapons. 373 00:22:40,526 --> 00:22:43,120 But the rules of engagement were followed. 374 00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:46,579 If those killings were lawful under the rules of engagement, 375 00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:49,368 then the rules of engagement are wrong. 376 00:22:49,869 --> 00:22:51,371 Deeply wrong. 377 00:22:52,288 --> 00:22:53,505 You've got this scene. 378 00:22:53,581 --> 00:22:56,050 Some may be ethically troubled by the scene. 379 00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:57,843 Frankly, I'm not. 380 00:22:58,002 --> 00:23:00,004 But I can understand someone who's troubled by that 381 00:23:00,170 --> 00:23:03,720 and someone who wants the American people to know that, 382 00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:05,681 because the American people need to know 383 00:23:05,843 --> 00:23:09,143 what it is their government is doing for them. I actually share that view. 384 00:23:09,221 --> 00:23:11,724 When I was director of CIA, there was some stuff we were doing 385 00:23:11,849 --> 00:23:14,728 I wanted all 300 million Americans to know. 386 00:23:15,728 --> 00:23:17,480 But I never figured out a way 387 00:23:17,688 --> 00:23:20,407 without informing a whole bunch of other people 388 00:23:20,566 --> 00:23:22,568 who didn't have a right to that information, 389 00:23:22,818 --> 00:23:25,321 and who may actually use that image or that fact 390 00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:29,204 or that data or that message to harm my countrymen. 391 00:23:30,701 --> 00:23:32,920 From a national security point of view, 392 00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:37,549 there was absolutely no justification for withholding that videotape. 393 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,379 Number one, gunship video is like trading carols 394 00:23:41,629 --> 00:23:44,473 amongst soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. 395 00:23:44,632 --> 00:23:46,851 It's freely exchanged back and forth. 396 00:24:12,534 --> 00:24:14,878 What's even more disturbing is that 397 00:24:14,995 --> 00:24:18,124 it was one in a series of efforts 398 00:24:18,207 --> 00:24:23,213 to withhold images of facts that were known. 399 00:24:24,672 --> 00:24:27,175 Reuters knew its employees had been killed. 400 00:24:27,341 --> 00:24:31,016 The news agency requested the video, but the Army refused, 401 00:24:31,178 --> 00:24:33,180 claiming the video was classified. 402 00:24:33,597 --> 00:24:38,774 The fact that innocent people were killed in that helicopter attack, 403 00:24:38,936 --> 00:24:41,610 that was a known fact that was not classified. 404 00:24:42,147 --> 00:24:43,319 A record of the incident 405 00:24:43,482 --> 00:24:46,486 and a word-for-word transcript of the pilots' conversation 406 00:24:46,694 --> 00:24:50,244 had already been published in a book called The Good Soldiers 407 00:24:50,447 --> 00:24:51,994 by a writer embedded with the Army. 408 00:24:52,783 --> 00:24:56,833 The Army later confirmed that the information was not classified. 409 00:24:56,912 --> 00:24:58,630 Yet the Army would prosecute the man 410 00:24:58,789 --> 00:25:00,791 who leaked the video to WikiLeaks. 411 00:25:01,542 --> 00:25:03,965 What kind of games was the Army playing? 412 00:25:04,378 --> 00:25:07,052 Why was a transcript less secret than a moving image? 413 00:25:07,256 --> 00:25:09,008 We won't shoot anymore. 414 00:25:09,591 --> 00:25:13,141 Clearly the government recognizes the power of images. 415 00:25:14,096 --> 00:25:18,693 But the ultimate power of image is it helps people understand 416 00:25:18,851 --> 00:25:21,274 what it is this fact is that we all know. 417 00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:24,774 Flag-draped coffins help us understand 418 00:25:24,982 --> 00:25:28,031 the consequences of sending our children off to war. 419 00:25:28,610 --> 00:25:32,615 Pictures of detainee abuse in Abu Ghraib 420 00:25:32,823 --> 00:25:36,373 help us understand exactly what was taking place. 421 00:25:37,828 --> 00:25:42,334 Video of that unfortunate occurrence where innocent people were killed, 422 00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:48,389 helps us understand that this is an inevitable consequence of war. 423 00:25:57,973 --> 00:25:59,020 How was the video obtained? 424 00:26:00,059 --> 00:26:03,859 We can't discuss our sourcing of the video. 425 00:26:32,841 --> 00:26:36,186 Adrian Lamo was known as "the homeless hacker," 426 00:26:36,345 --> 00:26:38,518 a couch-surfing computer infiltrator 427 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,524 who had been convicted of hacking into The New York Times. 428 00:26:42,935 --> 00:26:47,156 In 2010, not long after the release of the Collateral Murder video, 429 00:26:47,314 --> 00:26:50,989 Lamo used Twitter to urge his followers to donate to WikiLeaks. 430 00:26:51,443 --> 00:26:55,118 Only one day later he was contacted by someone with the screen name 431 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,157 "bradass87." 432 00:27:01,495 --> 00:27:05,045 Frankly, I just didn't find what he had to say all that interesting at first, 433 00:27:05,207 --> 00:27:10,805 until he started making references to spilling secrets. 434 00:27:52,087 --> 00:27:57,093 At that point, I knew that this wasn't some kind of game. 435 00:27:57,426 --> 00:28:01,101 It was for real and that I was going to have to make some very hard choices. 436 00:28:02,472 --> 00:28:07,569 In Star Trek, every prospective commanding officer 437 00:28:07,728 --> 00:28:12,234 is expected to pass a test called the "Kobayashi Maru." 438 00:28:12,816 --> 00:28:14,910 Starship Enterprise on training mission 439 00:28:14,985 --> 00:28:16,237 to Gamma Hydra. 440 00:28:16,403 --> 00:28:19,122 Alert. Klingon torpedoes activated. Alert. 441 00:28:19,198 --> 00:28:20,541 Evasive action! 442 00:28:23,327 --> 00:28:24,374 Ah! 443 00:28:27,998 --> 00:28:30,126 The test cannot be passed. 444 00:28:30,292 --> 00:28:34,297 It is there to see how they deal with a no-win situation. 445 00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:37,390 A no-win situation's a possibility every commander may face. 446 00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:39,051 Has that never occurred to you? 447 00:28:39,218 --> 00:28:40,970 No, sir, it has not. 448 00:28:41,887 --> 00:28:45,892 In this case, it was a no-win situation, 449 00:28:46,433 --> 00:28:51,610 deciding what you're going to do when no matter what you do, 450 00:28:51,772 --> 00:28:54,446 you're going to screw somebody over. 451 00:28:55,484 --> 00:28:58,988 Unsure what to do, Adrian contacted Tim Webster, 452 00:28:59,238 --> 00:29:02,333 a friend and former Army counterintelligence agent 453 00:29:02,491 --> 00:29:03,834 Adrian called me and said, 454 00:29:03,992 --> 00:29:06,415 "Hey, Tim, what would you do if somebody had approached you 455 00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:08,338 "and said, 'Hey, I'm leaking secrets. "' 456 00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:10,457 I thought it was a pretty stupid question, 457 00:29:10,540 --> 00:29:14,795 because of course Adrian knows exactly what I would have done in that situation. 458 00:29:15,212 --> 00:29:16,304 What would you have done? 459 00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:18,599 Well, of course, turned them in. 460 00:29:19,216 --> 00:29:22,186 There's no... There's nothing else you can do in that situation. 461 00:29:23,512 --> 00:29:26,356 But Adrian was on the fence about it ethically. 462 00:29:27,349 --> 00:29:30,694 On one hand, here was this kid leaking all this classified information, 463 00:29:30,894 --> 00:29:32,896 could potentially cost lives. 464 00:29:33,355 --> 00:29:36,905 On the other hand, here was this kid who had reached out to Adrian 465 00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:40,454 in confidence and trusted him. 466 00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:43,623 And Adrian took that pretty seriously. 467 00:29:45,367 --> 00:29:47,586 He indicated he didn't know who this person was, 468 00:29:47,744 --> 00:29:49,291 they were just a screen name. 469 00:29:49,454 --> 00:29:51,798 So, very quickly, of course, the first thing that 470 00:29:51,999 --> 00:29:54,593 anybody would be interested in is, who is this guy? 471 00:31:49,699 --> 00:31:53,249 I first met Bradley Manning at a New Year's Eve party. 472 00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:56,965 It was a 1930s theme party. 473 00:31:57,249 --> 00:31:59,343 I was the Prince of Wales. 474 00:31:59,543 --> 00:32:03,468 And Brad showed up without any kind of 475 00:32:03,547 --> 00:32:06,972 costume or persona. 476 00:32:07,092 --> 00:32:09,720 I looked at him and he was small 477 00:32:09,886 --> 00:32:13,811 and had this kind of ingénue expression on his face. 478 00:32:14,141 --> 00:32:17,816 This bright blond hair. And so I said, "Oh, Jean Harlow. " 479 00:32:23,108 --> 00:32:25,952 Wrote that on a name tag, slapped it on his chest, 480 00:32:26,153 --> 00:32:28,201 then we went on with the rest of the evening. 481 00:32:31,199 --> 00:32:32,746 When I met him at the party, 482 00:32:32,951 --> 00:32:36,046 he made no mention to me that he was in the Army. 483 00:32:36,413 --> 00:32:37,790 This came as a surprise to me. 484 00:32:44,629 --> 00:32:46,472 To get government money for college, 485 00:32:46,715 --> 00:32:48,968 Bradley Manning enlisted in the Army. 486 00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:51,978 In 2007, Manning began basic training. 487 00:32:52,262 --> 00:32:53,809 He was 19 years old. 488 00:32:54,973 --> 00:32:58,352 Just weeks after he started, he was sent to a discharge unit 489 00:32:58,685 --> 00:33:01,108 to determine if he should stay in the Army. 490 00:33:01,605 --> 00:33:05,280 My locker was next to his and that's when I met him. 491 00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:10,577 Nobody puts their sister's picture with him posing next to his sister. 492 00:33:10,947 --> 00:33:14,121 It was kind of weird, but... Oh, well. 493 00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:19,711 But we knew right away he was gay. It was so obvious. But, so... 494 00:33:21,249 --> 00:33:23,126 Not that I have a problem with it. 495 00:33:24,085 --> 00:33:27,259 He was small, a little bit effeminate and that made him 496 00:33:27,422 --> 00:33:30,676 public enemy number one for drill sergeants to beat the macho into him. 497 00:33:31,426 --> 00:33:34,396 We're talking professional Army, 30-40-year-old people 498 00:33:34,596 --> 00:33:37,270 that would pick on him just to torment him. 499 00:33:38,058 --> 00:33:40,402 And what happened? Did he get discharged? 500 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,235 No, the funny thing is, he was the least Army material of anybody there. 501 00:33:44,439 --> 00:33:47,113 And they all got discharged and he didn't. 502 00:33:48,902 --> 00:33:50,449 Instead of discharging Manning, 503 00:33:50,612 --> 00:33:54,207 the Army decided to make him an intelligence analyst. 504 00:33:54,533 --> 00:33:55,625 There's a lot of components 505 00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:56,747 that go with Intel analyst. 506 00:33:56,826 --> 00:33:58,328 US Army Intelligence Recruitment Video 507 00:33:58,411 --> 00:34:00,584 I'm in charge of the security, document security, 508 00:34:00,664 --> 00:34:03,338 physical security, personal security, like people's clearances. 509 00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:05,252 Does it make me feel like James Bond a little bit? 510 00:34:05,377 --> 00:34:06,424 Yeah, to some degree. 511 00:34:06,628 --> 00:34:08,676 What would I like the public to know about the Army'? 512 00:34:09,172 --> 00:34:11,174 We love what we do. 513 00:34:13,718 --> 00:34:15,937 He was definitely what society 514 00:34:16,012 --> 00:34:18,390 would label as a computer nerd. 515 00:34:19,015 --> 00:34:23,236 He was constantly up all night building specific computer programs. 516 00:34:23,395 --> 00:34:25,614 So he was unusually adept at computers? 517 00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:30,573 He's probably the first person in the military that I had met 518 00:34:30,652 --> 00:34:36,330 that is as talented as he was with computers. 519 00:34:37,450 --> 00:34:41,205 But I had to pull him aside several times for his lack of sleep. 520 00:34:41,705 --> 00:34:45,050 He was desperately addicted to soda. 521 00:34:45,792 --> 00:34:49,672 He drank approximately a liter to two liters every night. 522 00:34:51,047 --> 00:34:54,642 So he literally did not sleep, ever. 523 00:34:56,678 --> 00:34:58,772 One time he was late for a formation 524 00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:02,730 and he had a very public display, physically. 525 00:35:03,602 --> 00:35:05,946 He was jumping up and down, flailing his arms, 526 00:35:06,187 --> 00:35:08,030 screaming at the top of his lungs. 527 00:35:08,189 --> 00:35:11,284 And to me, I had never seen a soldier do that before. 528 00:35:11,443 --> 00:35:13,116 It had to be something else. 529 00:35:13,445 --> 00:35:14,867 A seizure or something like that 530 00:35:15,071 --> 00:35:17,950 because it was very radical body movement. 531 00:35:19,075 --> 00:35:22,124 But it wasn't something else. He didn't like messing up. 532 00:35:22,370 --> 00:35:24,372 He had to have everything perfect. 533 00:35:25,874 --> 00:35:29,219 I actually recommended three times that he not deploy. 534 00:35:32,547 --> 00:35:35,221 Hi, you've reached Brad Manning at my deployment phone number. 535 00:35:35,383 --> 00:35:38,011 Please leave a message or call me back later. Thank you. 536 00:35:43,099 --> 00:35:46,444 In October 2009, Bradley Manning was sent to Iraq, 537 00:35:46,728 --> 00:35:50,528 posted at Forward Operating Base Hammer, just outside of Baghdad. 538 00:36:01,076 --> 00:36:02,168 Baghdad 539 00:36:02,243 --> 00:36:05,338 We were the furthest FOB east that you could go around the Baghdad area. 540 00:36:05,413 --> 00:36:06,665 FOB Hammer 541 00:36:06,748 --> 00:36:09,752 It was definitely the best, most uneventful place 542 00:36:09,918 --> 00:36:11,386 you could have been deployed to. 543 00:36:12,087 --> 00:36:14,340 We never had any enemy fire. 544 00:36:14,506 --> 00:36:16,429 We could walk around without battle gear. 545 00:36:17,384 --> 00:36:21,764 We had a full gym. There was pool tables. There was a basketball court. 546 00:36:22,097 --> 00:36:23,519 We had a little movie theater. 547 00:36:23,682 --> 00:36:25,855 We had a Pizza Hut, a Burger King. 548 00:36:26,142 --> 00:36:29,487 A place to get your hair cut. A place to get a massage. 549 00:36:30,271 --> 00:36:32,273 We had air-conditioned living quarters. 550 00:36:32,482 --> 00:36:35,577 You could actually get cable and Internet in your room. 551 00:36:36,236 --> 00:36:39,115 It was literally just a home away from home. 552 00:37:43,511 --> 00:37:46,355 When you receive intel in, it's extremely raw. 553 00:37:46,514 --> 00:37:48,516 A lot of the times it's even in Iraqi, 554 00:37:48,683 --> 00:37:51,527 so we have to actually get it translated and build a product 555 00:37:51,686 --> 00:37:55,407 so that the commander can actually make military decisions. 556 00:37:56,065 --> 00:37:59,239 But much of the information available to Manning's intelligence unit 557 00:37:59,402 --> 00:38:02,201 had nothing to do with day-to-day combat operations. 558 00:38:02,405 --> 00:38:05,534 All of the analysts had access to central computer networks 559 00:38:05,742 --> 00:38:08,416 for the Armed Forces and the State Department. 560 00:38:08,703 --> 00:38:12,048 With a few key strokes, a skilled user could gain access 561 00:38:12,373 --> 00:38:15,047 to vast streams of classified emails, memos 562 00:38:15,210 --> 00:38:17,383 and reports from around the world. 563 00:38:19,214 --> 00:38:23,060 Why was it that Private Manning had access to all that information? 564 00:38:23,218 --> 00:38:26,722 9/11. Very simple. 565 00:38:26,888 --> 00:38:30,734 The mindset changed after 9/11 from a need-to-know to a need-to-share. 566 00:38:30,892 --> 00:38:34,396 And the database that he had access to 567 00:38:34,729 --> 00:38:38,654 was a representation of the need for one entity of government 568 00:38:38,817 --> 00:38:42,242 to share broadly information about its activities 569 00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:43,655 with another agency of government. 570 00:38:43,905 --> 00:38:45,578 How many people had access? 571 00:38:46,491 --> 00:38:48,084 It's a hard question to answer. 572 00:38:50,954 --> 00:38:53,002 Manning was regarded as one of the smartest 573 00:38:53,081 --> 00:38:54,924 intelligence analysts in the unit. 574 00:38:55,083 --> 00:38:56,209 But more than others, 575 00:38:56,376 --> 00:38:59,755 he became increasingly distressed by the reports he was seeing. 576 00:39:54,726 --> 00:39:58,071 He back-talked a lot. He constantly wanted to debate. 577 00:39:58,146 --> 00:40:00,899 He wanted to be the person that disagreed with everybody. 578 00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:05,361 We had a separate little conference room. 579 00:40:05,528 --> 00:40:08,657 It had a doorway but it didn't have a door that you could close. 580 00:40:08,823 --> 00:40:12,578 He'd go in there and just scream. 581 00:40:58,122 --> 00:40:59,123 Testing 1, 2, 3... 582 00:40:59,207 --> 00:41:00,459 this is, uh... 583 00:41:00,541 --> 00:41:02,794 reverse shot, audio only... 584 00:41:03,294 --> 00:41:04,716 for Assange. 585 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,508 I was trying to chase him after the Collateral Murder video, 586 00:41:08,675 --> 00:41:10,677 but he's a pretty evasive guy. 587 00:41:10,885 --> 00:41:14,890 He doesn't have a home, doesn't have an office, so it was no easy task. 588 00:41:15,848 --> 00:41:19,443 I'd been chasing him for weeks and had one phone contact with him. 589 00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:22,238 But I heard he was speaking in Norway, so I jumped on a plane. 590 00:41:30,029 --> 00:41:32,077 Turned up in Oslo and sort of 591 00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:35,790 shadowed him for a few days until things started to click. 592 00:41:37,412 --> 00:41:40,757 This is not the liberal democracy that we had all dreamed of. 593 00:41:40,832 --> 00:41:46,714 This is an encroaching, privatized censorship regime. 594 00:42:00,226 --> 00:42:01,318 So embarrassing. 595 00:42:01,394 --> 00:42:02,987 - What's that? - Goddamn camera in my face. 596 00:42:04,188 --> 00:42:07,237 Congratulations. Thank you. Very, great chat, great speech. 597 00:42:09,068 --> 00:42:11,912 At that time, he had an underground following, of which I was aware. 598 00:42:12,071 --> 00:42:14,199 He's Australian, he's from Melbourne. 599 00:42:14,615 --> 00:42:16,617 But he had no public profile really. 600 00:42:23,541 --> 00:42:24,588 WikiLeaks is not the first time 601 00:42:24,667 --> 00:42:26,544 you've come to the attention of the Australian public. 602 00:42:26,627 --> 00:42:28,379 You had another controversial period 603 00:42:28,463 --> 00:42:31,433 when you were involved with a group that was essentially 604 00:42:31,507 --> 00:42:32,850 trying to penetrate 605 00:42:32,967 --> 00:42:34,310 military computer systems. 606 00:42:34,385 --> 00:42:36,353 What was the motivation there? 607 00:42:36,637 --> 00:42:37,934 Well, it was two motivations. 608 00:42:38,014 --> 00:42:41,359 One was just intellectual exploration, 609 00:42:41,726 --> 00:42:44,650 and the challenge to do this. 610 00:42:44,979 --> 00:42:49,826 So if you're a teenager at this time in a suburb of Melbourne, 611 00:42:52,278 --> 00:42:55,703 and this was before there was public access to the Internet, 612 00:42:56,699 --> 00:43:00,044 this was an incredibly intellectually liberating thing 613 00:43:00,161 --> 00:43:03,381 to go out and explore the world with your mind. 614 00:43:06,709 --> 00:43:08,052 G'day, mate! 615 00:43:09,504 --> 00:43:11,882 No, a hacker's not someone that kills their victim, 616 00:43:12,006 --> 00:43:14,680 dismembers them, and cuts them into small pieces. 617 00:43:14,842 --> 00:43:16,469 Hackers do far more damage than that. 618 00:43:16,677 --> 00:43:19,851 Hackers, the mystery operators of the Internet. 619 00:43:20,431 --> 00:43:22,684 In the eyes of the law, they're criminal. 620 00:43:23,017 --> 00:43:24,189 But who are they? 621 00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:27,363 It was a really interesting period in Melbourne in the early '90s. 622 00:43:27,522 --> 00:43:29,115 There was a few places on earth 623 00:43:29,273 --> 00:43:32,447 that really clicked into the Internet, pre-internet. 624 00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:34,362 There was also a sense of rebelliousness, 625 00:43:34,529 --> 00:43:37,157 sort of an alternative political culture in Melbourne. 626 00:43:37,281 --> 00:43:38,373 All those things converged. 627 00:43:38,533 --> 00:43:41,377 And Julian was absolutely the core part of... 628 00:43:41,536 --> 00:43:43,379 It was almost the cliché, the teen hacker. 629 00:43:43,871 --> 00:43:46,124 Seventy-two million people dead'? 630 00:43:46,374 --> 00:43:49,218 Is this a game 631 00:43:49,961 --> 00:43:51,383 or is it real? 632 00:43:53,714 --> 00:43:54,761 Oh, wow. 633 00:43:54,841 --> 00:43:56,889 Their struggle was against the state. 634 00:43:57,468 --> 00:44:01,723 And they thought that triumph of intelligent individuals 635 00:44:01,931 --> 00:44:05,185 over the possibility of state surveillance, 636 00:44:05,268 --> 00:44:06,895 that's the heart of what they were doing. 637 00:44:07,728 --> 00:44:10,072 And Julian Assange, who at that point was a young hacker, 638 00:44:10,189 --> 00:44:11,236 got into that world. 639 00:44:11,357 --> 00:44:12,574 We're going to show 'em, baby. 640 00:44:12,817 --> 00:44:15,161 And he became a central figure. 641 00:44:16,654 --> 00:44:19,328 The group was called the International Subversives. 642 00:44:19,657 --> 00:44:21,500 Among them was Julian Assange, 643 00:44:21,659 --> 00:44:23,912 known by the online name of Mendax, 644 00:44:24,078 --> 00:44:26,957 short for a Latin phrase meaning "noble liar. " 645 00:44:28,374 --> 00:44:32,129 Hackers in Melbourne were also suspects in the WANK worm attack, 646 00:44:32,295 --> 00:44:33,968 though their involvement was never proven. 647 00:44:35,214 --> 00:44:36,887 Two years after the WANK worm, 648 00:44:37,091 --> 00:44:39,344 Assange was implicated in another hack. 649 00:44:40,261 --> 00:44:44,437 Julian Assange allegedly accessed computer systems around the world 650 00:44:44,599 --> 00:44:47,022 through weak links in the Internet system, 651 00:44:47,435 --> 00:44:50,109 meaning, "The whole computer opened up to him 652 00:44:50,313 --> 00:44:53,317 "and he could walk around like God Almighty." 653 00:44:53,441 --> 00:44:57,196 Hackers have this belief that we are getting a police state, 654 00:44:57,361 --> 00:45:00,786 that information is being hidden from the broad community... 655 00:45:01,032 --> 00:45:03,160 Ken Day was an Australian expert on hackers 656 00:45:03,784 --> 00:45:06,378 and the first person to investigate Julian Assange 657 00:45:06,537 --> 00:45:09,882 as part of an undercover sting called Operation Weather. 658 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,502 It was a very difficult case 659 00:45:12,668 --> 00:45:14,511 because it was only the second time we'd done 660 00:45:14,670 --> 00:45:18,345 an investigation in this particular style, so we were still learning. 661 00:45:20,009 --> 00:45:24,310 What we did was capture the sound going across the telephone line, 662 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,685 so we could see what was typed and the signal coming back. 663 00:45:29,185 --> 00:45:32,359 The hackers had broken into the U.S. Air Force, the Navy, 664 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:33,857 and the U.S. defense network 665 00:45:33,981 --> 00:45:37,030 that had the power to block entire countries from the Internet. 666 00:45:37,485 --> 00:45:41,490 We had a back door in U.S. military security coordination center. 667 00:45:41,822 --> 00:45:44,666 This is the peak security... 668 00:45:45,326 --> 00:45:49,331 It's for controlling the security of MILNET, the U.S. military Internet. 669 00:45:49,664 --> 00:45:52,338 We had total control over this for two years. 670 00:45:53,334 --> 00:45:56,964 The Internet was a new frontier for people to go out and express themselves 671 00:45:57,338 --> 00:45:59,841 that "I am there, I am the first, lam the all-powerful." 672 00:46:00,091 --> 00:46:03,516 This is the common theme with people that are hackers. 673 00:46:04,011 --> 00:46:06,981 It was all ego-driven, "I am the best." 674 00:46:11,519 --> 00:46:15,069 Julian was charged with 29 counts of penetrating, altering, 675 00:46:15,231 --> 00:46:17,233 and destroying government data. 676 00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:19,902 The defense asked the court to be lenient 677 00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:22,242 because Assange had lived a difficult childhood, 678 00:46:22,405 --> 00:46:24,407 continually moving from city to city 679 00:46:24,740 --> 00:46:26,993 with no lasting relationships. 680 00:46:27,201 --> 00:46:30,796 His only constant connection with the outside world was the Internet. 681 00:46:32,248 --> 00:46:34,751 After a five year investigation and trial, 682 00:46:34,917 --> 00:46:37,636 Julian pied guilty to 24 hacking offenses. 683 00:46:38,296 --> 00:46:40,719 He was sentenced to three years of probation. 684 00:46:41,173 --> 00:46:43,426 He believes that what he was doing was not wrong, 685 00:46:43,592 --> 00:46:46,061 and probably rues the day that he pied guilty- 686 00:46:46,887 --> 00:46:49,356 Julian does not like being judged. 687 00:46:49,515 --> 00:46:53,361 His rationalization is, "Yeah, I've been convicted, but it was unjust. 688 00:46:53,561 --> 00:46:55,359 "It's unfair. I'm a martyr." 689 00:46:55,855 --> 00:46:56,902 He didn't accept it. 690 00:46:58,024 --> 00:47:00,777 Julian always had quite a rigid political view. 691 00:47:01,027 --> 00:47:04,907 He's always believed that there's these secrets that need to be discovered. 692 00:47:05,906 --> 00:47:09,956 At 17, 18, Julian was looking at stuff that he couldn't quite understand. 693 00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:13,248 It's all in acronyms, it's descriptions of movements here and there, 694 00:47:13,414 --> 00:47:14,586 of weapons or of troops. 695 00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:16,633 He wasn't ready to do anything with it. 696 00:47:17,251 --> 00:47:19,925 Indeed, he waited 20 years to see it again. 697 00:47:20,463 --> 00:47:22,136 And when he saw it again, 698 00:47:22,757 --> 00:47:23,974 he knew what to do with it this time. 699 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,309 Months before he received the helicopter video, 700 00:47:28,471 --> 00:47:31,975 Assange was trolling through hacker conferences, looking for leaks. 701 00:47:32,141 --> 00:47:34,109 Why am I talking to you guys at all? 702 00:47:34,185 --> 00:47:35,903 Um... Well, 703 00:47:35,978 --> 00:47:39,983 you have a "capture the flag" contest here. 704 00:47:40,649 --> 00:47:42,492 We have our own list of flags, 705 00:47:42,818 --> 00:47:44,320 and we want you to capture them. 706 00:47:45,154 --> 00:47:49,159 And so if you Google for "WikiLeaks Most Wanted 2009, " 707 00:47:49,658 --> 00:47:52,127 you'll see a list of documents. 708 00:47:52,953 --> 00:47:56,833 If you are in a position or you know someone who's in a position 709 00:47:57,291 --> 00:48:01,137 to get this material, and get it, give it to us, no questions asked, 710 00:48:01,504 --> 00:48:03,506 you will help change history. 711 00:48:05,674 --> 00:48:07,642 One month into Manning's deployment, 712 00:48:07,802 --> 00:48:10,305 WikiLeaks published the 9/11 pager messages. 713 00:48:10,721 --> 00:48:11,768 Manning took notice. 714 00:48:19,605 --> 00:48:20,652 Only days later, 715 00:48:20,731 --> 00:48:24,281 he saved Julian Assange's contact information to his computer. 716 00:48:25,152 --> 00:48:28,782 Then taking a cue from the WikiLeaks Most Wanted List, 717 00:48:28,906 --> 00:48:32,501 Manning began searching for CIA detainee interrogation videos 718 00:48:32,660 --> 00:48:35,664 on the classified networks that were cleared for his use. 719 00:48:38,332 --> 00:48:40,585 Like other potential whistle-blowers, 720 00:48:40,751 --> 00:48:43,504 he began to wonder if he had access to secret information 721 00:48:43,587 --> 00:48:45,510 the public should know. 722 00:48:45,881 --> 00:48:47,508 In the course of his work 723 00:48:47,591 --> 00:48:50,390 he had already downloaded thousands of military reports 724 00:48:50,553 --> 00:48:52,555 from Iraq and Afghanistan. 725 00:48:53,264 --> 00:48:55,358 It was there that he captured his flags. 726 00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:57,647 A lot of flags. 727 00:49:33,095 --> 00:49:35,097 While Manning was playing with a new identity, 728 00:49:35,264 --> 00:49:38,017 he was also imagining a new role for himself. 729 00:49:38,684 --> 00:49:40,527 He visited his boyfriend in Boston 730 00:49:40,853 --> 00:49:43,276 and went to a party at a college hackerspace, 731 00:49:43,564 --> 00:49:45,817 where he was caught on camera. 732 00:49:46,984 --> 00:49:49,453 During this period, maybe even at this moment, 733 00:49:49,820 --> 00:49:53,916 Manning had in his possession nearly 500, 000 classified documents 734 00:49:54,158 --> 00:49:56,252 about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. 735 00:49:56,994 --> 00:49:59,417 While on leave, he contacted The Washington Post 736 00:49:59,580 --> 00:50:01,082 and The New York Times. 737 00:50:01,248 --> 00:50:02,750 When neither showed interest 738 00:50:02,917 --> 00:50:06,137 Manning sent the so-called "war logs" to WikiLeaks. 739 00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:36,288 Good morning. Him? 740 00:50:36,450 --> 00:50:38,828 How would an Army private allegedly gain access 741 00:50:38,953 --> 00:50:40,170 to top secret information? 742 00:50:40,329 --> 00:50:42,331 The Army has detained a U.S. soldier 743 00:50:42,623 --> 00:50:45,342 in connection with the leak of this classified video. 744 00:50:45,459 --> 00:50:49,965 The prime suspect is 22-year-old Army Private First Class Bradley Manning. 745 00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:53,304 For allegedly leaking this classified gun camera video 746 00:50:53,509 --> 00:50:55,807 of an Apache helicopter attacking civilians. 747 00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:58,223 Really in the first few days after we heard 748 00:50:58,305 --> 00:51:00,478 about this problem with Private Manning, 749 00:51:00,641 --> 00:51:03,645 it felt like the worst possible scenario. 750 00:51:03,811 --> 00:51:07,315 At that time not really understanding what it means for us, 751 00:51:07,565 --> 00:51:09,988 and what the hell was actually going on. 752 00:51:10,317 --> 00:51:11,910 Private First Class Bradley Manning, 753 00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:15,414 he found a former computer hacker in Sacramento, California 754 00:51:15,573 --> 00:51:18,668 and that former computer hacker was growing increasingly alarmed, 755 00:51:18,826 --> 00:51:20,828 eventually turning him in. 756 00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:26,505 He needed a friend, and I wish that I could have been that friend. 757 00:51:27,501 --> 00:51:32,257 There was a responsibility to the needs of the many 758 00:51:32,506 --> 00:51:35,635 rather than simply the needs of Bradley Manning. 759 00:51:36,510 --> 00:51:38,103 Lamo met with federal agents 760 00:51:38,262 --> 00:51:41,106 and gave them a copy of his chats with Bradley Manning. 761 00:51:41,265 --> 00:51:42,983 He also gave a copy to Kevin Poulsen, 762 00:51:43,350 --> 00:51:45,273 a friend and former convicted hacker, 763 00:51:45,477 --> 00:51:47,900 who is now an editor at Wired. com. 764 00:51:48,314 --> 00:51:52,694 I had just done a story about Adrian being institutionalized. 765 00:51:52,776 --> 00:51:56,451 While he was institutionalized, they had adjusted his medications. 766 00:51:56,989 --> 00:51:59,083 I almost had kind of a suspicion that 767 00:51:59,158 --> 00:52:02,002 maybe his new medications weren't agreeing with him 768 00:52:02,077 --> 00:52:06,207 and this was A Beautiful Mind situation, and he was imagining all this. 769 00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:10,424 Lamo gave Poulsen the okay to publish the story, 770 00:52:10,586 --> 00:52:15,057 and days later, Wired.com broke the news of Manning's arrest. 771 00:52:15,215 --> 00:52:16,888 Nobody wanted Adrian to go to the media, 772 00:52:17,009 --> 00:52:18,761 but apparently it was already done. 773 00:52:18,927 --> 00:52:22,306 And, well, he ended up approaching a lot of media after that. 774 00:52:22,389 --> 00:52:23,686 It just sort of exploded. 775 00:52:23,807 --> 00:52:27,311 Did it make you feel patriotic when you turned Manning in? 776 00:52:27,436 --> 00:52:30,940 It made me feel very sad 777 00:52:31,023 --> 00:52:35,244 that I could not have interdicted this leak... 778 00:52:35,402 --> 00:52:39,908 I believed that his actions were endangering lives... 779 00:52:40,908 --> 00:52:43,912 Adrian lives his life as though he's writing it like a novel. 780 00:52:44,078 --> 00:52:46,080 And every novelist wants to be read. 781 00:52:47,414 --> 00:52:52,762 It's my job to play the role that I'm cast in to the very best of my ability, 782 00:52:52,961 --> 00:52:55,635 the same as any other actor. 783 00:52:55,923 --> 00:53:00,144 You can't possibly be yourself in the public eye. 784 00:53:00,594 --> 00:53:02,972 All of the little things that make us human 785 00:53:03,138 --> 00:53:06,813 don't stand up under the scrutiny of the camera. 786 00:53:07,101 --> 00:53:12,449 I'd like to also point out that I think that this marks the end 787 00:53:12,606 --> 00:53:16,782 of WikiLeaks's ability to say that they have never had a source be outed. 788 00:53:19,279 --> 00:53:20,656 So what's been the update on Manning? 789 00:53:20,781 --> 00:53:22,624 Gimme the news, it's only two days old. 790 00:53:22,741 --> 00:53:25,415 So he has been charged with espionage. 791 00:53:25,786 --> 00:53:28,130 The allegation being that he has transferred 792 00:53:28,288 --> 00:53:32,794 at least 50 classified cables to another party. 793 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,633 The other party is not named. 794 00:53:34,795 --> 00:53:37,469 After Bradley Manning was arrested, 795 00:53:37,631 --> 00:53:41,636 attention shifted very much to Julian, it was no longer a secret. 796 00:53:42,636 --> 00:53:45,606 The pressure through this period was intense. 797 00:53:46,974 --> 00:53:49,818 Julian won't say where he got that material, 798 00:53:50,144 --> 00:53:52,567 but he had the material, there was no question about that. 799 00:53:53,564 --> 00:53:56,738 We try extremely hard to never know who our sources are. 800 00:53:56,984 --> 00:54:00,158 So, all our encryption technology is designed 801 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,493 to prevent us knowing who our sources are. 802 00:54:03,073 --> 00:54:04,245 Was it really possible 803 00:54:04,366 --> 00:54:07,961 that Julian didn't know that Bradley Manning was his source? 804 00:54:08,203 --> 00:54:10,956 Or was saying so an old Mendax tactic, 805 00:54:11,165 --> 00:54:13,509 telling a lie for a noble cause? 806 00:54:14,126 --> 00:54:16,003 Private First Class Bradley Manning 807 00:54:16,211 --> 00:54:17,383 is now said to have confessed 808 00:54:17,463 --> 00:54:21,639 to passing more than 260,000 documents to WikiLeaks. 809 00:54:22,468 --> 00:54:23,685 That's not true. 810 00:54:23,761 --> 00:54:27,265 If he's the one, then that implies there's much more to be released. 811 00:54:27,473 --> 00:54:28,975 Stephen Grey for Channel 4 News. 812 00:54:29,099 --> 00:54:30,646 Thanks, Stephen, thanks... 813 00:54:30,726 --> 00:54:33,479 now I have every fucking gun pointed at me. 814 00:54:33,937 --> 00:54:36,611 Julian knew how much more there was. 815 00:54:36,857 --> 00:54:39,952 But now that Manning was arrested, the question became, 816 00:54:40,068 --> 00:54:42,742 would WikiLeaks put Manning in greater jeopardy 817 00:54:42,905 --> 00:54:45,533 by continuing to release his materials? 818 00:54:45,699 --> 00:54:48,202 It's certainly a very problematic situation. 819 00:54:48,786 --> 00:54:51,039 This is about as serious as it can get. 820 00:54:52,372 --> 00:54:55,546 We have a situation where there's a young man, Bradley Manning, 821 00:54:55,709 --> 00:54:58,758 who's alleged to be a source for the Collateral Murder video. 822 00:54:59,296 --> 00:55:02,391 We do not know whether Mr. Manning is our source or not. 823 00:55:02,591 --> 00:55:07,097 But what we do know is that we promised the source 824 00:55:07,262 --> 00:55:10,607 that we would publish everything that they gave to us. 825 00:55:16,188 --> 00:55:18,407 Even though his potential source had been arrested, 826 00:55:18,607 --> 00:55:21,531 Assange was undeterred from the WikiLeaks mission. 827 00:55:21,693 --> 00:55:25,368 And the hundreds of thousands of leaked U.S. government secrets he possessed 828 00:55:25,572 --> 00:55:27,700 were burning a hole in his pocket. 829 00:55:30,369 --> 00:55:33,418 Julian traveled around Europe plotting his next move, 830 00:55:33,580 --> 00:55:37,585 and in Brussels he was tracked down by investigative journalist Nick Davies. 831 00:55:37,751 --> 00:55:39,424 My pitch to Julian was, 832 00:55:39,586 --> 00:55:42,760 instead of posting this secret material on the WikiLeaks website, 833 00:55:43,006 --> 00:55:47,182 he shared it with an alliance of The Guardian and other media groups, 834 00:55:47,344 --> 00:55:48,766 including The New York Times. 835 00:55:48,929 --> 00:55:53,275 Who, A, have the impact of reaching millions of people instantly 836 00:55:53,392 --> 00:55:57,192 and also have natural political connections in their own jurisdictions. 837 00:55:57,271 --> 00:56:00,616 So we were trying to give him a kind of political immunity 838 00:56:00,858 --> 00:56:03,532 so that he could do this clearly provocative 839 00:56:03,735 --> 00:56:05,612 and somewhat dangerous thing 840 00:56:05,779 --> 00:56:09,033 in relative safety and with an assurance of success. 841 00:56:13,078 --> 00:56:16,799 Recognizing that WikiLeaks could benefit from a louder megaphone, 842 00:56:17,124 --> 00:56:19,092 Julian agreed to Nick's proposal. 843 00:56:19,293 --> 00:56:21,967 So, how am I going to get the documents back to London? 844 00:56:22,212 --> 00:56:23,259 There was a little bit of a risk 845 00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:25,883 that if the authorities were monitoring his communications, 846 00:56:26,049 --> 00:56:27,096 as they might well have been, 847 00:56:27,259 --> 00:56:29,557 they would be aware of my involvement with him, 848 00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:31,722 they would arrest me as I came back into the United Kingdom, 849 00:56:31,847 --> 00:56:33,941 and take the material if I had it on a laptop. 850 00:56:34,016 --> 00:56:35,893 We thought about a memory stick, maybe they won't spot that? 851 00:56:35,976 --> 00:56:37,273 He came up with a much better solution. 852 00:56:37,394 --> 00:56:40,273 He said that he would create a website. 853 00:56:46,695 --> 00:56:49,494 In order to access the website, I would need a password. 854 00:56:49,656 --> 00:56:52,409 So he took a paper napkin that was on the table in this café 855 00:56:52,576 --> 00:56:54,249 where we were talking in Brussels 856 00:56:54,411 --> 00:56:58,416 and he hooked together several of the words in the commercial logo 857 00:56:58,665 --> 00:57:00,667 and wrote, "No capital letters. " 858 00:57:02,210 --> 00:57:03,257 I stuffed it in my pocket. 859 00:57:03,337 --> 00:57:05,089 In the event that I was arrested, people would assume 860 00:57:05,255 --> 00:57:07,053 that it was something I was going to blow my nose on. 861 00:57:07,174 --> 00:57:09,097 And so it was I traveled back to the United Kingdom, 862 00:57:09,259 --> 00:57:11,432 and, as it happened, nobody stopped me so itwas all cool. 863 00:57:12,846 --> 00:57:13,938 Julian would also team up 864 00:57:14,097 --> 00:57:17,397 with the London-based Bureau for Investigative Journalism. 865 00:57:17,601 --> 00:57:19,945 In a prearranged drop point in Central London, 866 00:57:20,103 --> 00:57:21,855 Julian met lain Overton. 867 00:57:22,105 --> 00:57:23,903 We turned up and Julian was there 868 00:57:24,066 --> 00:57:25,739 wearing a bullet-proof vest 869 00:57:25,901 --> 00:57:27,528 and we had a Middle Eastern meal. 870 00:57:31,031 --> 00:57:32,533 And he revealed that he had 871 00:57:32,699 --> 00:57:36,954 the largest-ever military leak of documents in the history of leaks. 872 00:57:38,413 --> 00:57:42,168 In the midst of this spy story was thrust Iain's young colleague, 873 00:57:42,376 --> 00:57:44,879 a computer whiz named James Ball. 874 00:57:45,087 --> 00:57:49,388 About 1:00 in the morning I took delivery on a USB stick 875 00:57:49,508 --> 00:57:52,603 of 390,000 secret U.S. military records. 876 00:57:53,595 --> 00:57:56,724 I make to leave and Julian asks me where I'm going. 877 00:57:56,890 --> 00:57:58,892 I said, "Well, I was going to go home. " 878 00:57:59,184 --> 00:58:01,607 He sort of pauses and goes, "No, don't do that. 879 00:58:01,770 --> 00:58:04,114 "I don't want your address linked to this address- 880 00:58:04,523 --> 00:58:08,323 "Can you find somewhere else to go at least for four or five hours?" 881 00:58:08,402 --> 00:58:10,575 I don't really think I can go and hit a club. 882 00:58:10,737 --> 00:58:12,580 I'd really hate having to try and explain 883 00:58:12,739 --> 00:58:16,744 losing 400,000 secret documents because I got a bit drunk. 884 00:58:39,766 --> 00:58:41,268 GAVIN MacFADYEN: Nobody had ever done this before. 885 00:58:41,518 --> 00:58:45,068 How do you have teams of intelligent people to go through this stuff? 886 00:58:45,230 --> 00:58:46,698 Nobody in my experience as a journalist 887 00:58:46,773 --> 00:58:50,778 had ever been confronted with a tenth of the mass of material he was. 888 00:58:50,902 --> 00:58:53,280 We're talking in a half a million lines of data. 889 00:58:53,447 --> 00:58:56,621 If in the old days you had to take half a million lines of data out, 890 00:58:56,742 --> 00:58:59,791 you'd have had 16 wheelbarrows out of the front door of the Pentagon. 891 00:58:59,953 --> 00:59:03,082 This was the biggest leak of secret material 892 00:59:03,248 --> 00:59:05,125 in the history of this particular planet. 893 00:59:07,878 --> 00:59:10,427 Julian decided that the first release of material 894 00:59:10,589 --> 00:59:12,262 would be the Afghan War Logs. 895 00:59:12,424 --> 00:59:14,142 But he had to understand them first. 896 00:59:15,218 --> 00:59:18,313 In London, The Guardian set up a secret operation 897 00:59:18,388 --> 00:59:20,140 with key military reporters 898 00:59:20,307 --> 00:59:23,311 from The New York Times and the German magazine Der Spiegel, 899 00:59:23,435 --> 00:59:25,278 veteran journalists who could penetrate 900 00:59:25,353 --> 00:59:28,106 the arcane language of the military. 901 00:59:28,190 --> 00:59:30,192 You've got much more information than you have in this. 902 00:59:30,275 --> 00:59:32,027 But here's the key part... 903 00:59:32,402 --> 00:59:33,654 During the four or five weeks 904 00:59:33,779 --> 00:59:36,123 when the reporters were working on the Afghan War Logs, 905 00:59:36,323 --> 00:59:39,827 all of us became concerned that there was material in there 906 00:59:39,993 --> 00:59:43,918 which, if published, could get people hurt on the ground in Afghanistan. 907 00:59:44,122 --> 00:59:46,966 This huge attack goes for 22 hours or something. 908 00:59:47,959 --> 00:59:49,131 Starts here. 909 00:59:49,336 --> 00:59:52,010 This particularly related to ordinary Afghan civilians 910 00:59:52,214 --> 00:59:54,717 who in one operation or incident or another 911 00:59:54,883 --> 00:59:57,102 had given information to Coalition forces 912 00:59:57,427 --> 01:00:01,728 and that was recorded in there in such a way that those civilians were identifiable. 913 01:00:09,397 --> 01:00:12,276 I raised this with Julian and he said, 914 01:00:12,526 --> 01:00:16,201 "if an Afghan civilian helps Coalition forces, he deserves to die," 915 01:00:16,363 --> 01:00:19,788 and he went on to explain that they have the status of a collaborator or an informer. 916 01:00:19,866 --> 01:00:20,958 Now... 917 01:00:21,034 --> 01:00:23,287 Are you sure about that? That's definitely what he said? 918 01:00:23,370 --> 01:00:24,622 I have absolutely no doubt about it at all. 919 01:00:24,704 --> 01:00:27,207 This was just me and him talking through the detail of how we handle this. 920 01:00:27,290 --> 01:00:30,260 And this problem, potential problem, had already come up. 921 01:00:30,460 --> 01:00:31,712 A, it's a moral problem, 922 01:00:31,878 --> 01:00:34,882 we are not here to publish material that gets people killed. 923 01:00:35,048 --> 01:00:39,053 B, if you publish information which really does get people hurt, 924 01:00:39,219 --> 01:00:41,267 or could conceivably get people hurt, 925 01:00:41,429 --> 01:00:43,397 you lose your political immunity, 926 01:00:43,557 --> 01:00:48,028 you're terribly vulnerable to the most obvious propaganda attack 927 01:00:48,186 --> 01:00:49,904 which is waiting for us in the wings 928 01:00:50,063 --> 01:00:51,861 that you are helping the bad guys. 929 01:00:54,568 --> 01:00:56,070 Julian's a computer hacker, 930 01:00:56,236 --> 01:00:59,740 he comes from that ideology that all information is good, 931 01:00:59,906 --> 01:01:01,908 and everything should be published. 932 01:01:02,576 --> 01:01:04,999 I asked Julian if he would publish information sent to his website 933 01:01:05,078 --> 01:01:06,170 WNYC - "On The Media" March 2009 934 01:01:06,246 --> 01:01:08,340 that could lead to the deaths of innocents, 935 01:01:08,415 --> 01:01:12,090 such as how to release anthrax into a town's water supply. 936 01:01:18,925 --> 01:01:22,896 This is a man whose primary way of interacting with the world 937 01:01:23,054 --> 01:01:24,397 is a digital one. 938 01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:30,397 It is to some degree unsullied by the limitations of human nature. 939 01:01:30,562 --> 01:01:34,988 He does sometimes reduce human activity to something formulaic, 940 01:01:35,233 --> 01:01:37,235 and he doesn't see the human heart beating in there. 941 01:01:37,736 --> 01:01:40,535 He just reduced it to that very, very simple formula. 942 01:01:40,614 --> 01:01:43,037 "They speak to an occupying force, they must be bad, 943 01:01:43,116 --> 01:01:44,242 "the informer deserves to die." 944 01:01:47,287 --> 01:01:48,413 The coalition of journalists 945 01:01:48,580 --> 01:01:51,880 weren't used to working with a transparency radical like Assange, 946 01:01:52,083 --> 01:01:55,212 and Assange was still learning the ethics of journalism. 947 01:01:55,420 --> 01:01:57,639 They could only agree on one thing, 948 01:01:57,714 --> 01:02:00,388 they were going to release the documents. 949 01:02:05,889 --> 01:02:08,517 In London, a deadline was set for all the partners 950 01:02:08,683 --> 01:02:10,151 to publish at the same time. 951 01:02:10,977 --> 01:02:14,607 Julian finally agreed to redactions, the blacking out of names, 952 01:02:14,773 --> 01:02:17,117 and told his partners he had a special process 953 01:02:17,275 --> 01:02:20,620 which would eliminate the identity of sources from the documents. 954 01:02:21,112 --> 01:02:23,285 But with less than a week before publication, 955 01:02:23,448 --> 01:02:26,793 Assange had neglected to tell Domscheit-Berg in Berlin. 956 01:02:27,661 --> 01:02:29,163 So, there we were, 957 01:02:29,329 --> 01:02:32,333 four days before releasing 90,000 documents 958 01:02:32,916 --> 01:02:35,044 and no redactions made. 959 01:02:35,877 --> 01:02:38,005 It is effectively impossible for us 960 01:02:38,838 --> 01:02:42,843 to notify some of these Afghanis in their villages about this material. 961 01:02:44,094 --> 01:02:47,143 It looks like we will have to do a redaction of some of them. 962 01:02:47,222 --> 01:02:48,314 Is that new for you? 963 01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:50,893 You're effectively doing a bit of censorship yourself. 964 01:02:51,017 --> 01:02:52,860 Yeah, that would be new for us, but remember... 965 01:02:53,019 --> 01:02:54,362 Time was running out. 966 01:02:54,521 --> 01:02:55,693 Just before the release, 967 01:02:55,814 --> 01:02:58,863 Assange focused on a section of 15,000 documents 968 01:02:59,025 --> 01:03:01,027 that contained the most names. 969 01:03:01,695 --> 01:03:05,495 In desperation, he turned to an unlikely source for help. 970 01:03:06,199 --> 01:03:09,669 It was reported that WikiLeaks has asked the Department of Defense 971 01:03:09,744 --> 01:03:14,375 for help in reviewing approximately 15,000 classified documents 972 01:03:14,499 --> 01:03:16,547 that WikiLeaks obtained 973 01:03:16,668 --> 01:03:19,387 in an unauthorized and inappropriate manner 974 01:03:19,546 --> 01:03:23,050 before WikiLeaks releases those classified documents to the public. 975 01:03:23,717 --> 01:03:26,971 Julian urged The New York Times to send a letter to the Pentagon 976 01:03:27,053 --> 01:03:29,306 asking if they want to help with redactions, 977 01:03:29,514 --> 01:03:30,811 and they refused, 978 01:03:31,141 --> 01:03:33,564 and that was 24 hours before the release. 979 01:03:33,727 --> 01:03:36,196 ...classified and sensitive information... 980 01:03:36,896 --> 01:03:41,572 This notion that he didn't care about what was in that material is not true. 981 01:03:41,693 --> 01:03:45,243 He was actually quite tortured by this material 982 01:03:45,363 --> 01:03:47,832 and with very few resources. 983 01:03:48,742 --> 01:03:51,370 By himself, day and night, he was consumed 984 01:03:51,536 --> 01:03:55,131 with working out what to release and what not to release. 985 01:03:55,206 --> 01:03:59,677 WikiLeaks is a tiny organization working on this huge scale. 986 01:03:59,878 --> 01:04:02,051 It's going to make some mistakes. 987 01:04:03,757 --> 01:04:05,759 Is Spiegel "I-E" or "E-l"? 988 01:04:06,051 --> 01:04:07,348 I-E. 989 01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:10,059 All right. Fuck that end of the press release. 990 01:04:10,221 --> 01:04:12,690 He was without any support structure, 991 01:04:12,891 --> 01:04:14,859 and he was about to do a press conference. 992 01:04:15,018 --> 01:04:19,023 So, I'd say to him, "Julian, you need someone there. 993 01:04:19,189 --> 01:04:21,237 "I mean, someone's got to write a press release 994 01:04:21,399 --> 01:04:22,696 "or at least answer the phone." 995 01:04:24,527 --> 01:04:27,531 So it was just in the couple of days before that launch 996 01:04:27,697 --> 01:04:30,120 that a couple of volunteer students came in. 997 01:04:30,241 --> 01:04:31,288 I'm going to go now, 998 01:04:31,368 --> 01:04:33,791 but I just want to give you something to think about, which is, 999 01:04:33,953 --> 01:04:37,048 we've got this press conference on, tomorrow. 1000 01:04:37,624 --> 01:04:43,176 We're going to be totally inundated. 1001 01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:46,098 Completely totally inundated. 1002 01:04:46,174 --> 01:04:47,972 Let's talk about WikiLeaks as an organization. 1003 01:04:48,134 --> 01:04:50,637 Mmm-hmm. Is this Apple or IBM, or is this... 1004 01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,018 It's a corner gas station, 1005 01:04:53,139 --> 01:04:55,141 with some extremely bright attendants. 1006 01:04:57,060 --> 01:04:59,529 it was true that he tried to create an impression 1007 01:04:59,687 --> 01:05:01,234 that it was this very large organization. 1008 01:05:01,398 --> 01:05:05,448 It was Julian Assange, his $300 laptop, 1009 01:05:06,611 --> 01:05:07,703 10 SIM cards, 1010 01:05:07,862 --> 01:05:10,536 and a very cheap jacket 1011 01:05:10,824 --> 01:05:12,371 that he'd put on if he had to do an interview. 1012 01:05:18,331 --> 01:05:20,333 He woke up late, of course. 1013 01:05:20,625 --> 01:05:22,798 I'm knocking on the door. "Julian, come on, man." 1014 01:05:23,503 --> 01:05:25,972 He gets up. Just his normal thing. 1015 01:05:29,134 --> 01:05:30,351 What's the time? What's the time? 1016 01:05:30,969 --> 01:05:32,312 Twenty-five to. 1017 01:05:32,512 --> 01:05:34,606 I also need to prepare a little list of things. All right. 1018 01:05:35,849 --> 01:05:36,850 I'll be two minutes. How are you feeling? 1019 01:05:37,517 --> 01:05:38,860 Tired. I haven't been to sleep. 1020 01:05:38,935 --> 01:05:40,357 But, good. 1021 01:05:40,854 --> 01:05:42,697 Fourteen pages in The Guardian this morning. 1022 01:05:43,106 --> 01:05:46,201 "Massive leak of secret files exposes true Afghan war." 1023 01:05:46,359 --> 01:05:48,361 We tell our sources maximum political impact, 1024 01:05:48,528 --> 01:05:50,121 and I think we got pretty close. 1025 01:05:50,321 --> 01:05:51,994 There's 10 trucks out there, 1026 01:05:52,198 --> 01:05:54,200 10 media trucks, 10 media trucks. 1027 01:05:54,534 --> 01:05:55,535 Yep. 1028 01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:58,542 It'll be a good outcome. 1029 01:06:06,463 --> 01:06:11,139 He walked out that door as the sort of aging student hobo. 1030 01:06:11,968 --> 01:06:14,972 By the time he had made this 50-yard walk, 1031 01:06:15,180 --> 01:06:17,182 he was a rock star. 1032 01:06:17,348 --> 01:06:19,692 He was one of the most famous guys on the planet. 1033 01:06:30,695 --> 01:06:32,038 Holy fuck. 1034 01:06:33,156 --> 01:06:36,706 Most of you have read some of the morning papers. 1035 01:06:36,868 --> 01:06:39,542 So, this is The Guardian from this morning. 1036 01:06:40,288 --> 01:06:43,212 Fourteen pages about this topic. 1037 01:06:43,291 --> 01:06:47,171 It's clear that it will shape an understanding 1038 01:06:47,253 --> 01:06:50,257 of what the past six years of war has been like, 1039 01:06:50,423 --> 01:06:55,429 and that the course of the war needs to change. 1040 01:06:56,346 --> 01:06:58,940 The war logs revealed a conflict that was very different 1041 01:06:59,098 --> 01:07:01,226 from what citizens had been told. 1042 01:07:01,392 --> 01:07:04,646 Civilian casualties were much higher than reported. 1043 01:07:04,812 --> 01:07:08,817 America's supposed ally, Pakistan, was playing a double game, 1044 01:07:08,983 --> 01:07:10,906 taking military aid from the U.S., 1045 01:07:11,069 --> 01:07:14,619 even while working with the Taliban to plan attacks in Afghanistan. 1046 01:07:15,532 --> 01:07:20,459 The war logs also revealed the existence of a secret American assassination squad, 1047 01:07:20,620 --> 01:07:24,796 with a terrible record of wounding and killing women and children. 1048 01:07:28,461 --> 01:07:32,261 There is nothing that will have greater consequences for our nation 1049 01:07:32,423 --> 01:07:35,393 than the unleashing of the brutality of war. 1050 01:07:35,552 --> 01:07:38,101 To have those types of decisions, 1051 01:07:38,179 --> 01:07:41,649 those types of deliberations, done in secrecy 1052 01:07:42,475 --> 01:07:44,819 is a tremendous disservice to the American people, 1053 01:07:44,894 --> 01:07:46,862 because these are things that are being done in their names. 1054 01:07:46,980 --> 01:07:49,324 And whether you agree with it or not, 1055 01:07:49,482 --> 01:07:52,986 to have a free back-and-forth airing of these is essential. 1056 01:07:53,820 --> 01:07:56,573 All the material is over seven months old, 1057 01:07:56,823 --> 01:07:59,827 so it's of no current operational consequence. 1058 01:08:00,410 --> 01:08:03,664 Now, in what circumstances wouldn't you publish information, 1059 01:08:03,830 --> 01:08:06,174 or are there any circumstances in which you wouldn't publish it? 1060 01:08:06,332 --> 01:08:08,676 We have a harm minimization process. 1061 01:08:08,835 --> 01:08:13,136 Our goal is just reform, our method is transparency. 1062 01:08:13,339 --> 01:08:15,842 But we do not put the method before the goal. 1063 01:08:17,927 --> 01:08:19,019 Sorry. 1064 01:08:19,095 --> 01:08:21,598 To my amazement, Julian announced to the world, 1065 01:08:21,723 --> 01:08:25,694 "WikiLeaks always conducts a harm minimization process." 1066 01:08:25,852 --> 01:08:28,947 Julian had no harm minimization process in place at all. 1067 01:08:29,188 --> 01:08:32,533 So, on the WikiLeaks side, were the redactions made? 1068 01:08:32,900 --> 01:08:34,026 No. 1069 01:08:34,193 --> 01:08:38,039 There were 15,000 documents in the end got held back. 1070 01:08:38,531 --> 01:08:41,034 But 75,000 documents were published, 1071 01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,202 and they contained about 100 names. 1072 01:08:43,703 --> 01:08:45,501 The newspapers published articles, 1073 01:08:45,663 --> 01:08:48,837 accompanied by only a few hundred redacted documents. 1074 01:08:48,916 --> 01:08:52,420 But even after the holdbacks, and despite Julian's promises, 1075 01:08:52,587 --> 01:08:56,262 WikiLeaks published 75,000 documents on its website 1076 01:08:56,507 --> 01:08:57,554 without redactions. 1077 01:08:58,343 --> 01:09:01,847 The battlefield consequences of the release of these documents 1078 01:09:02,013 --> 01:09:04,732 are potentially severe and dangerous 1079 01:09:04,849 --> 01:09:07,068 for our troops, our allies 1080 01:09:07,518 --> 01:09:08,735 and Afghan partners. 1081 01:09:10,730 --> 01:09:13,859 I do not know whether anybody subsequently did get hurt- 1082 01:09:14,067 --> 01:09:16,069 The fact that the material was there 1083 01:09:16,235 --> 01:09:18,579 and identifiable as potentially dangerous 1084 01:09:18,821 --> 01:09:20,198 did the political damage. 1085 01:09:20,490 --> 01:09:22,163 When the material was first published, 1086 01:09:22,241 --> 01:09:26,667 the world was indeed talking about civilian casualties in Afghanistan, 1087 01:09:26,746 --> 01:09:30,421 and about the existence of a squad that was going out and killing Taliban. 1088 01:09:30,500 --> 01:09:33,003 But the White House managed the news, 1089 01:09:33,086 --> 01:09:36,511 and the story became "WikiLeaks has got blood on their hands." 1090 01:09:36,589 --> 01:09:38,808 Mr. Assange can say whatever he likes 1091 01:09:38,883 --> 01:09:40,009 about the greater good 1092 01:09:40,093 --> 01:09:43,814 he thinks he and his source are doing, 1093 01:09:43,888 --> 01:09:46,391 but the truth is they might already have on their hands 1094 01:09:47,016 --> 01:09:51,317 the blood of some young solider or that of an Afghan family. 1095 01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,904 The people at WikiLeaks could have blood on their hands. 1096 01:09:55,024 --> 01:09:57,243 He does clearly have blood on his hands. 1097 01:09:57,402 --> 01:09:58,449 The blood is on their hands. 1098 01:09:59,821 --> 01:10:02,244 This is where we get into the information war. 1099 01:10:02,365 --> 01:10:06,836 That speculative blood became more important than the actual blood. 1100 01:10:07,161 --> 01:10:08,253 OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM 1101 01:10:08,329 --> 01:10:10,707 Coalition troop deaths: 3,936 Afghan civilian deaths: 15,500 - 17,400 1102 01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:11,837 Taliban deaths: 15,000 - 25,000 1103 01:10:11,916 --> 01:10:14,010 We already can see all that terrible stuff. 1104 01:10:14,168 --> 01:10:15,420 We know about that. 1105 01:10:15,545 --> 01:10:17,968 Let's focus on your nightmares. 1106 01:10:19,632 --> 01:10:20,804 How all these people might die 1107 01:10:20,883 --> 01:10:24,433 because the government's secrets have been unleashed. 1108 01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:26,522 As soon as they pick up this line 1109 01:10:26,597 --> 01:10:28,190 about who's got blood on their hands, 1110 01:10:28,266 --> 01:10:29,609 it's WikiLeaks being isolated, 1111 01:10:29,726 --> 01:10:31,399 and that, from a political point of view, 1112 01:10:31,477 --> 01:10:33,070 was a clever move by the White House. 1113 01:10:33,146 --> 01:10:34,819 They stepped all around any kind of argument 1114 01:10:34,981 --> 01:10:36,233 with these big news organizations 1115 01:10:36,399 --> 01:10:37,571 and isolated Julian. 1116 01:10:38,860 --> 01:10:41,830 By creating a distinction between Assange and the newspapers, 1117 01:10:41,904 --> 01:10:44,532 the government avoided a war with the mainstream media 1118 01:10:44,657 --> 01:10:46,409 and invented a perfect enemy, 1119 01:10:46,826 --> 01:10:48,669 the guy Bradley Manning called 1120 01:10:48,828 --> 01:10:50,830 "the crazy, white-haired Aussie. " 1121 01:10:52,081 --> 01:10:53,754 What was your name? 1122 01:10:55,042 --> 01:10:56,840 I don't know what it was, I know what it is. 1123 01:10:57,003 --> 01:10:58,380 What is your name? 1124 01:10:58,671 --> 01:11:00,014 Julian. 1125 01:11:00,465 --> 01:11:01,967 Is this taking some getting used to? 1126 01:11:02,049 --> 01:11:03,722 You've been pretty much in the shadows 1127 01:11:03,968 --> 01:11:07,188 as far as the media's concerned until recently. 1128 01:11:07,472 --> 01:11:12,353 We've grown a bit, so this is now a time for me to do it. 1129 01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,813 WikiLeaks needs a face? 1130 01:11:15,688 --> 01:11:18,032 Yeah, the public demands that it has a face. 1131 01:11:18,191 --> 01:11:20,034 And actually we'd much sort of prefer, 1132 01:11:20,193 --> 01:11:21,661 I'd prefer, if it didn't have to have a face. 1133 01:11:21,819 --> 01:11:23,947 And we tried to do that for a while. 1134 01:11:24,030 --> 01:11:25,407 Urn... 1135 01:11:25,531 --> 01:11:27,033 And people... 1136 01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:30,878 Just the demand was sort of so great, people just started inventing faces. 1137 01:11:31,996 --> 01:11:33,498 Some call him a hero, 1138 01:11:33,664 --> 01:11:36,213 some see him as a threat to national security. 1139 01:11:36,459 --> 01:11:37,802 Julian, thank you for joining us... 1140 01:11:37,877 --> 01:11:39,800 This afternoon I talked to the man behind the leaks... 1141 01:11:40,004 --> 01:11:41,722 - Julian Assange. - Julian Assange. 1142 01:11:41,881 --> 01:11:43,554 Mr. Assange, good morning to you. 1143 01:11:43,674 --> 01:11:45,347 What have the leaks achieved? 1144 01:11:45,551 --> 01:11:48,555 We have published more classified documents 1145 01:11:48,846 --> 01:11:50,723 than the rest of the world press combined. 1146 01:11:50,848 --> 01:11:52,065 So it's journalistic. 1147 01:11:52,225 --> 01:11:54,853 I'm fond of the phrase, 1148 01:11:55,019 --> 01:11:56,566 "Lights on, rats out." 1149 01:11:57,230 --> 01:12:01,576 Do you feel you have accomplished what you wanted to 1150 01:12:01,734 --> 01:12:03,532 with the release of these documents? 1151 01:12:03,861 --> 01:12:05,204 Not yet. 1152 01:12:16,916 --> 01:12:18,634 You. What? 1153 01:12:18,793 --> 01:12:20,045 Jesus Christ. 1154 01:12:20,795 --> 01:12:23,218 So, two with you on the front. 1155 01:12:24,465 --> 01:12:25,933 My God, look... 1156 01:12:26,050 --> 01:12:27,393 Another double page spread. 1157 01:12:27,552 --> 01:12:29,054 I think that's the best photo. 1158 01:12:29,262 --> 01:12:30,559 That's not a bad photo. 1159 01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:31,852 I think it's really good. 1160 01:12:31,931 --> 01:12:33,979 And then you've got... You've got your own banner 1161 01:12:34,100 --> 01:12:37,400 at the top here for three pages, in The Times. 1162 01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:40,607 I'm untouchable now in this country. 1163 01:12:44,443 --> 01:12:46,036 - Untouchable? - Untouchable. 1164 01:12:46,112 --> 01:12:47,614 That's a bit of hubris. 1165 01:12:47,697 --> 01:12:48,744 Huh? 1166 01:12:48,823 --> 01:12:49,995 That's a bit of hubris. 1167 01:12:50,324 --> 01:12:52,201 Well, for a couple of days. 1168 01:12:52,326 --> 01:12:55,000 It can wear off. But the next few days, untouchable. 1169 01:13:00,293 --> 01:13:04,173 The founder of WikiLeaks found himself making news again today. 1170 01:13:04,297 --> 01:13:07,221 Sweden issued a warrant for the arrest of Julian Assange. 1171 01:13:07,300 --> 01:13:08,768 Right now Swedish authorities are 1172 01:13:08,843 --> 01:13:10,311 looking to question WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. 1173 01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:12,480 Swedish authorities have issued a warrant for his arrest 1174 01:13:12,638 --> 01:13:16,484 on suspicion of molestation and rape in two separate cases. 1175 01:13:20,938 --> 01:13:22,360 Saturday, August the 21st, I woke up. 1176 01:13:22,523 --> 01:13:24,366 Another journalist had sent an email 1177 01:13:24,525 --> 01:13:28,120 with a link to the website of the Swedish newspaper Expressen. 1178 01:13:28,195 --> 01:13:30,118 I went to this website and I thought, "Well, this is a joke, 1179 01:13:30,197 --> 01:13:31,289 "this is like a spoof newspaper." 1180 01:13:31,365 --> 01:13:33,242 These huge headlines, including one which claims 1181 01:13:33,326 --> 01:13:36,000 that Julian Assange has sexually assaulted two women. 1182 01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:37,121 "What is this about?" 1183 01:13:37,204 --> 01:13:40,208 So, I phoned a guy in Stockholm 1184 01:13:40,333 --> 01:13:43,382 who is the main coordinator for WikiLeaks in that city. 1185 01:13:43,794 --> 01:13:45,967 So I came up to this guy and I said, "What on earth is going on?" 1186 01:13:46,464 --> 01:13:48,512 The man in Sweden was Donald Bostrom, 1187 01:13:49,842 --> 01:13:51,264 an investigative journalist 1188 01:13:51,344 --> 01:13:54,848 who had agreed to help Julian Assange while he was in the country. 1189 01:13:54,972 --> 01:13:56,019 It was... 1190 01:13:56,098 --> 01:13:58,442 kind of the new Mick Jagger. 1191 01:13:59,018 --> 01:14:00,861 Yeah. I mean, really, really. 1192 01:14:01,771 --> 01:14:04,115 Groupies, stalkers, media... 1193 01:14:04,190 --> 01:14:07,694 everyone had a big interest in Julian at the time. 1194 01:14:08,527 --> 01:14:09,528 And he liked it. 1195 01:14:09,654 --> 01:14:11,372 He liked it? Mmm-hmm. Of course. 1196 01:14:20,957 --> 01:14:23,301 Assange had thought of moving his base to Sweden, 1197 01:14:23,459 --> 01:14:25,132 where WikiLeaks kept its servers. 1198 01:14:25,336 --> 01:14:27,430 Laws were more favorable to press freedoms 1199 01:14:27,630 --> 01:14:30,759 and Assange had a growing fan base. 1200 01:14:30,841 --> 01:14:32,935 Fame offered Assange a platform, 1201 01:14:33,094 --> 01:14:35,313 but it also made him a visible target. 1202 01:14:36,514 --> 01:14:38,061 I said to Julian, "I think you are on the list..." 1203 01:14:38,140 --> 01:14:40,359 "of undesirable people for some governments." 1204 01:14:41,852 --> 01:14:43,399 "Recently, in Russia" 1205 01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,322 "some journalists were compromised" 1206 01:14:45,398 --> 01:14:46,820 "by girls in short skirts." 1207 01:14:47,066 --> 01:14:48,192 "it's a very easy trick." 1208 01:14:48,567 --> 01:14:50,410 "So please, take it easy." 1209 01:14:50,945 --> 01:14:54,040 That was exactly one week before everything happened. 1210 01:14:54,156 --> 01:14:56,534 Breaking news... REPORTER Internet platform WikiLeaks... 1211 01:14:56,617 --> 01:14:58,085 The Australian has denied the allegations 1212 01:14:58,160 --> 01:14:59,457 saying that they are without basis... 1213 01:15:00,663 --> 01:15:02,336 Julian Assange denied having had non-consensual relations 1214 01:15:02,415 --> 01:15:04,838 with the two women of 35 and 25 years of age. 1215 01:15:06,043 --> 01:15:07,545 She described Assange as violent 1216 01:15:07,628 --> 01:15:09,801 and said she tried to refuse his advances. 1217 01:15:09,922 --> 01:15:11,924 She only consented to having sex 1218 01:15:12,008 --> 01:15:14,852 after he agreed to wear a condom. 1219 01:15:15,678 --> 01:15:19,273 But the condom somehow broke. 1220 01:15:19,974 --> 01:15:23,353 An unknown source leaked the police report to the press. 1221 01:15:23,477 --> 01:15:25,525 It included the testimony of Assange, 1222 01:15:25,771 --> 01:15:27,865 the two women, and, surprisingly, 1223 01:15:28,024 --> 01:15:30,197 a picture of a torn condom. 1224 01:15:30,443 --> 01:15:32,821 There were other peculiar things going on. 1225 01:15:32,945 --> 01:15:36,040 The case of one woman was dropped, and then reopened. 1226 01:15:36,115 --> 01:15:40,712 The general sense was, it's awful curious that these charges would emerge 1227 01:15:40,786 --> 01:15:45,007 just after a very embarrassing and damaging leak. 1228 01:15:45,124 --> 01:15:46,501 There were various possibilities here. 1229 01:15:46,625 --> 01:15:49,629 One was that some women who wanted to sell a story 1230 01:15:49,795 --> 01:15:51,138 to the newspapers had set him up. 1231 01:15:51,297 --> 01:15:55,177 Another was that a really nasty right-wing group in Sweden 1232 01:15:55,342 --> 01:15:57,015 had conspired to set him up. 1233 01:15:57,178 --> 01:16:00,398 Maybe some dark agency from the United States has done this. 1234 01:16:00,473 --> 01:16:03,317 And way out on the extreme ranges of possibility, 1235 01:16:03,434 --> 01:16:04,651 well, maybe he did it, I don't know! 1236 01:16:04,810 --> 01:16:06,904 Did anything happen between you and these two women 1237 01:16:07,104 --> 01:16:10,654 that could be construed as sexual coercion or rape? 1238 01:16:10,816 --> 01:16:13,160 No words, no actions, no violence. 1239 01:16:13,319 --> 01:16:18,166 There is nothing that could be construed as rape. 1240 01:16:18,324 --> 01:16:19,917 Nothing at all. 1241 01:16:20,785 --> 01:16:22,503 Or sexual coercion? 1242 01:16:22,828 --> 01:16:24,296 Well, I don't know what the hell that means. 1243 01:16:28,167 --> 01:16:30,420 There's no doubt that this organization is under siege... 1244 01:16:30,628 --> 01:16:32,596 It was clearly a smear campaign... 1245 01:16:36,634 --> 01:16:38,602 We were warned by Australian intelligence 1246 01:16:38,677 --> 01:16:40,975 we would receive such an attack. 1247 01:16:41,055 --> 01:16:44,400 WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is calling it a "smear campaign." 1248 01:16:44,517 --> 01:16:47,020 His supporters claim that the warrant is a way of silencing him. 1249 01:16:47,144 --> 01:16:51,024 You're telling me this isn't a witch hunt, this isn't a smear job? Come on. 1250 01:16:51,107 --> 01:16:54,202 One accuser apparently worked with Cuban exiles 1251 01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,660 and there's a story around that she's a CIA operative? 1252 01:16:57,738 --> 01:17:00,412 This whole thing stinks to the high heavens, I gotta tell ya. 1253 01:17:00,491 --> 01:17:01,743 I've seen this enough times, 1254 01:17:01,826 --> 01:17:03,499 where governments and corporations, 1255 01:17:03,661 --> 01:17:07,461 they go after people with this kind of lie and smear. 1256 01:17:07,623 --> 01:17:09,717 This is all a bunch of hooey as far as I'm concerned. 1257 01:17:09,834 --> 01:17:12,838 Well, it's certainly a surreal Swedish fairy tale. 1258 01:17:13,087 --> 01:17:16,307 The only thing that hasn't walked onto stage yet are the trolls. 1259 01:17:16,465 --> 01:17:18,593 And I'm waiting for them to arrive. 1260 01:17:25,182 --> 01:17:28,482 It is my role to be the lightning rod, 1261 01:17:28,644 --> 01:17:32,239 to attract the attacks against the organization for our work. 1262 01:17:32,898 --> 01:17:37,654 One aspect of that has been the legal situation for yourself in Sweden. 1263 01:17:37,820 --> 01:17:40,915 I'm not going to talk about that in relation to this. 1264 01:17:42,324 --> 01:17:44,167 But it does affect WikiLeaks. 1265 01:17:44,410 --> 01:17:46,583 I will have to walk if you're... 1266 01:17:46,662 --> 01:17:48,335 Do you still... You had once talked... 1267 01:17:48,497 --> 01:17:52,297 If you're going to contaminate this extremely serious interview 1268 01:17:52,459 --> 01:17:53,802 with questions about my personal life... 1269 01:17:53,961 --> 01:17:55,804 I'm not, what I'm asking is, 1270 01:17:55,921 --> 01:17:57,969 if you feel that it's an attack on WikiLeaks. 1271 01:18:00,050 --> 01:18:01,393 Okay, sorry. 1272 01:18:02,303 --> 01:18:04,772 Julian, I'm happy to go onto the next question. 1273 01:18:04,972 --> 01:18:06,224 All I'm asking is... 1274 01:18:06,307 --> 01:18:07,354 Sorry. 1275 01:18:07,433 --> 01:18:08,480 You blew it. 1276 01:18:17,610 --> 01:18:20,284 The case in Sweden was still unresolved. 1277 01:18:20,404 --> 01:18:22,077 While the investigation continued, 1278 01:18:22,156 --> 01:18:24,784 prosecutors permitted Assange to leave Sweden 1279 01:18:24,909 --> 01:18:27,458 with the understanding that he would reappear. 1280 01:18:27,620 --> 01:18:29,622 But Assange never went back. 1281 01:18:29,705 --> 01:18:33,585 Convinced Sweden was a trap, he went underground in London. 1282 01:18:33,709 --> 01:18:35,803 Julian has a certain paranoia, 1283 01:18:35,961 --> 01:18:37,463 but in the time I was with him 1284 01:18:37,588 --> 01:18:41,468 I think that high security awareness was actually relevant, 1285 01:18:41,592 --> 01:18:42,889 it was appropriate. 1286 01:18:42,968 --> 01:18:45,642 Mind you, he'd been living like that 1287 01:18:45,804 --> 01:18:47,556 for the past, you know, five or ten years 1288 01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:49,483 when it probably wasn't appropriate. 1289 01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:51,523 Will there be anything more coming from WikiLeaks 1290 01:18:51,644 --> 01:18:53,066 in the next two or three weeks? 1291 01:18:53,145 --> 01:18:54,818 You never have a good reason to be paranoid. 1292 01:18:54,939 --> 01:18:56,816 You have good reason to be careful. 1293 01:18:56,899 --> 01:19:00,449 Stakes are high so you need to be meticulously careful every day. 1294 01:19:01,111 --> 01:19:03,739 He'd been trained for this moment, in evasive tactics, 1295 01:19:03,822 --> 01:19:06,996 and changing phones and taking out batteries and changing computers. 1296 01:19:07,785 --> 01:19:09,913 May have been a fantasy before, 1297 01:19:09,995 --> 01:19:12,248 but it served him well because it became real. 1298 01:19:13,123 --> 01:19:16,468 He was the focus of intense enemies. 1299 01:19:16,794 --> 01:19:20,264 Right now the Pentagon reportedly searching for Julian Assange, 1300 01:19:20,381 --> 01:19:21,803 potentially on the verge of releasing 1301 01:19:21,966 --> 01:19:24,890 a huge new stash of confidential documents. 1302 01:19:25,052 --> 01:19:26,645 He was putting his head above the parapet. 1303 01:19:26,762 --> 01:19:28,730 He was putting himself in a dangerous position. 1304 01:19:28,806 --> 01:19:31,810 And I think, on the whole, he handled the dangers pretty well. 1305 01:19:32,726 --> 01:19:34,820 There is a side to this guy which is great, 1306 01:19:34,895 --> 01:19:38,240 and then there's this hidden side which has been so destructive. 1307 01:19:38,816 --> 01:19:41,695 He's a natural fabulist and storyteller 1308 01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:44,826 and lives intensely in his imagination, 1309 01:19:44,905 --> 01:19:47,579 and to some extent that imaginary world that he inhabits 1310 01:19:47,700 --> 01:19:52,046 becomes more real than the, as it were, often mundane reality that we all live in. 1311 01:19:52,371 --> 01:19:53,463 Yes. 1312 01:19:54,707 --> 01:19:56,175 You talked about an aggressive surveillance operation 1313 01:19:56,250 --> 01:19:58,423 against you and some WikiLeaks employees? 1314 01:19:58,544 --> 01:20:01,423 We certainly were under surveillance in Iceland. 1315 01:20:01,547 --> 01:20:04,892 I, personally, had chased people 1316 01:20:04,967 --> 01:20:07,390 who were surveilling me with video cameras. 1317 01:20:07,970 --> 01:20:09,722 He traveled to a conference in Oslo 1318 01:20:09,888 --> 01:20:11,686 and then made these allegations that 1319 01:20:11,765 --> 01:20:15,770 two State Department officials had been on the airplane to follow him, 1320 01:20:15,894 --> 01:20:17,111 but there is no proof. 1321 01:20:17,521 --> 01:20:20,946 And this is what got tiring to a lot of us over time. 1322 01:20:21,066 --> 01:20:25,321 Julian was constantly propagating how much we're in danger 1323 01:20:25,404 --> 01:20:26,530 and all of these things. 1324 01:20:26,613 --> 01:20:30,959 And this was just lies and propaganda. 1325 01:20:31,076 --> 01:20:33,329 Maybe it's the fame, maybe it's the attention, 1326 01:20:33,412 --> 01:20:37,007 maybe it's the pressures of working in this kind of environment, 1327 01:20:37,082 --> 01:20:41,132 but somehow this idealist that I met 1328 01:20:42,087 --> 01:20:46,217 became something else somewhere through the story. 1329 01:20:50,763 --> 01:20:54,267 This whole topic just headed into a really bad direction. 1330 01:20:57,603 --> 01:21:00,106 There was this article in Newsweek. 1331 01:21:01,106 --> 01:21:06,283 That's what Julian took as a proof that I had been speaking to the press. 1332 01:21:07,780 --> 01:21:10,454 From that day on I was a traitor, 1333 01:21:10,949 --> 01:21:13,577 I was trying to stab him in the back. 1334 01:21:14,620 --> 01:21:18,716 It boiled down to me being suspended for, as Julian put it, 1335 01:21:20,292 --> 01:21:25,014 "disloyalty, insubordination and destabilization in times of crisis." 1336 01:21:26,507 --> 01:21:28,430 Where did that language come from? 1337 01:21:28,509 --> 01:21:32,389 I think, as much as I can tell, that's from the Espionage Act of 1917. 1338 01:21:34,098 --> 01:21:35,941 That was a cruel irony. 1339 01:21:36,016 --> 01:21:39,020 Across the Atlantic, the United States Department of Justice 1340 01:21:39,144 --> 01:21:42,148 was investigating whether it could use the Espionage Act 1341 01:21:42,731 --> 01:21:44,950 to put Julian Assange in jail. 1342 01:21:45,442 --> 01:21:49,072 The Espionage Act is primarily intended to address situations 1343 01:21:49,196 --> 01:21:53,417 where individuals pass national defense information over to the enemy 1344 01:21:53,534 --> 01:21:55,411 in order to allow the enemy to harm us. 1345 01:21:56,203 --> 01:21:59,924 It would be unprecedented if the Espionage Act was being used 1346 01:21:59,998 --> 01:22:02,592 to attack individuals who did not do anything more 1347 01:22:02,709 --> 01:22:06,555 than The New York Times or The Washington Post does every day. 1348 01:22:14,012 --> 01:22:16,265 Do you want to let them in first? 1349 01:22:19,184 --> 01:22:22,188 The next big releases were the Iraq War Logs. 1350 01:22:22,354 --> 01:22:24,527 This time WikiLeaks had worked with volunteers 1351 01:22:24,690 --> 01:22:28,240 to devise a computer program to solve the redaction problems. 1352 01:22:28,402 --> 01:22:30,905 There were almost 400,000 documents 1353 01:22:31,029 --> 01:22:34,249 detailing that the U.S. military had purposefully hidden information 1354 01:22:34,366 --> 01:22:38,416 about civilian casualties and systematic torture. 1355 01:22:40,247 --> 01:22:43,342 President Obama sanctioned the mass handover 1356 01:22:43,417 --> 01:22:46,216 of Iraqi prisoners of war 1357 01:22:46,336 --> 01:22:50,011 from the American troops over to the Iraqi authorities. 1358 01:22:50,674 --> 01:22:53,427 And one of the things that is against the Geneva Conventions 1359 01:22:53,552 --> 01:22:55,975 is you cannot hand over a prisoner of war 1360 01:22:56,054 --> 01:22:59,149 to another authority who you know commits torture. 1361 01:22:59,224 --> 01:23:01,272 But let me just say with regards to the allegations 1362 01:23:01,393 --> 01:23:05,068 of not intervening when coming across detainee abuse, 1363 01:23:05,147 --> 01:23:06,148 not true. 1364 01:23:06,231 --> 01:23:09,735 They had 1,300 allegations, 1365 01:23:09,818 --> 01:23:13,322 with medical evidence, of quite horrific torture 1366 01:23:13,489 --> 01:23:17,084 by Iraqi army and police against detainees. 1367 01:23:18,035 --> 01:23:19,412 We're talking about sodomy, 1368 01:23:19,536 --> 01:23:21,914 we're talking about abuse using rubber hoses 1369 01:23:21,997 --> 01:23:24,216 and beating people, we're talking about murder. 1370 01:23:24,583 --> 01:23:28,588 The sort of torture that supposedly we were "liberating" Iraq from. 1371 01:23:28,754 --> 01:23:32,475 The U.S. Administration under Bush and under Obama 1372 01:23:33,217 --> 01:23:37,688 continued turning over prisoners despite knowing this. 1373 01:23:38,639 --> 01:23:40,641 That is against the Geneva Convention. 1374 01:23:41,141 --> 01:23:44,236 The Obama administration appears to have committed war crimes. 1375 01:23:45,020 --> 01:23:46,818 Who knew that before? 1376 01:24:01,578 --> 01:24:03,296 - Bradley Manning's letter to WikiLeaks 1377 01:24:03,372 --> 01:24:04,965 What had Manning done? 1378 01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,965 Was his leak, as the Army had said, a reckless data dump? 1379 01:24:09,044 --> 01:24:10,421 Or was this the act of a man 1380 01:24:10,671 --> 01:24:12,969 who had peeked behind the curtain of a superpower 1381 01:24:13,048 --> 01:24:15,972 and decided that what it was doing was wrong? 1382 01:24:18,011 --> 01:24:20,935 After the leaks, and just before he was arrested, 1383 01:24:21,014 --> 01:24:22,357 Manning was trying to reckon 1384 01:24:22,474 --> 01:24:24,476 with what he had done and where he was going. 1385 01:24:42,995 --> 01:24:44,872 There was never even a possibility 1386 01:24:44,997 --> 01:24:49,173 that anyone could assume that he had a female personality. 1387 01:24:49,835 --> 01:24:51,758 You mean that he wanted to become a woman? 1388 01:24:51,837 --> 01:24:58,516 Well, we knew that he was at least considering hormone therapy, 1389 01:24:59,344 --> 01:25:00,846 but no one cared. 1390 01:25:00,971 --> 01:25:02,018 It wasn't like, 1391 01:25:02,097 --> 01:25:04,316 "Okay, he's going to have to start showering with the females." 1392 01:25:05,017 --> 01:25:07,019 Literally, nobody cared. 1393 01:25:09,688 --> 01:25:11,941 He would call me and cry. 1394 01:25:12,357 --> 01:25:13,950 Very loud sobbing 1395 01:25:14,026 --> 01:25:19,374 like a child just in a state of just utter loss, 1396 01:25:19,448 --> 01:25:22,076 and he kept saying, "I won't make it, 1397 01:25:22,159 --> 01:25:24,002 "I can't make it, I can't do this." 1398 01:25:31,251 --> 01:25:34,505 I constantly asked him, "Do you have someone? 1399 01:25:34,588 --> 01:25:37,011 "Do you have anyone to talk to, 1400 01:25:37,090 --> 01:25:39,843 "that's there, that you can see on a daily basis?" 1401 01:25:39,926 --> 01:25:41,769 And he assured me that he did not. 1402 01:25:43,764 --> 01:25:46,187 Manning did reach out for help at least once, 1403 01:25:46,266 --> 01:25:49,520 in an email to his master sergeant. 1404 01:25:49,603 --> 01:25:54,325 Manning attached to the email a picture of himself dressed as a woman. 1405 01:26:10,916 --> 01:26:13,260 Several weeks later, around dinnertime, 1406 01:26:13,335 --> 01:26:15,588 Manning was discovered lying on the ground. 1407 01:26:15,671 --> 01:26:18,550 With a knife, he had scrawled on a chair the words, 1408 01:26:18,632 --> 01:26:19,929 "I want. " 1409 01:26:21,635 --> 01:26:24,980 Later that same evening, Manning tried to go back to work. 1410 01:26:25,764 --> 01:26:26,890 I was off-shift, 1411 01:26:26,973 --> 01:26:28,725 and I had to come in to find something 1412 01:26:28,809 --> 01:26:30,402 that he should have been able to find. 1413 01:26:30,477 --> 01:26:33,651 And he was pacing back and forth saying smart comments to me. 1414 01:26:33,814 --> 01:26:35,987 And I blatantly said, 1415 01:26:36,108 --> 01:26:40,158 "Manning, how 'bout you fix your shit before you try to fix mine?" 1416 01:26:40,487 --> 01:26:44,162 And he screamed and punched me in the face 1417 01:26:44,282 --> 01:26:46,080 while I was sitting down. 1418 01:26:46,159 --> 01:26:48,833 My adrenaline immediately hit overload. 1419 01:26:48,954 --> 01:26:50,627 I stood up, pushed my chair back. 1420 01:26:50,789 --> 01:26:52,757 He continued to try to fight me, 1421 01:26:52,833 --> 01:26:56,883 but I put him in, you know, what UFC would call a"guillotine" 1422 01:26:56,962 --> 01:26:58,964 and pulled him on the floor, 1423 01:26:59,131 --> 01:27:02,351 and laid on top of him and pinned his arms beside his head. 1424 01:27:02,509 --> 01:27:04,477 At that time, I can't believe he messed with me, 1425 01:27:04,636 --> 01:27:06,638 I literally had 15-inch biceps. 1426 01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,484 I was the last person he probably should have punched. 1427 01:27:14,938 --> 01:27:17,111 My superiors decided that 1428 01:27:17,274 --> 01:27:20,824 it was just escalating too much and he had to be removed 1429 01:27:20,944 --> 01:27:23,322 and have his weapon taken away from him. 1430 01:27:29,494 --> 01:27:32,247 At that point he never came back in the office. 1431 01:27:32,330 --> 01:27:35,334 He had to go work with the first sergeant in the mailroom. 1432 01:27:41,214 --> 01:27:44,184 In the mailroom, Manning still had an Internet connection 1433 01:27:44,259 --> 01:27:45,476 to military networks. 1434 01:27:45,552 --> 01:27:47,304 His gun had been taken away, 1435 01:27:47,387 --> 01:27:50,482 but he still had access to millions of classified documents. 1436 01:27:52,142 --> 01:27:53,985 We have personnel security programs. 1437 01:27:54,060 --> 01:27:57,314 We try to take a look at the folks to whom we give security clearances. 1438 01:27:57,397 --> 01:27:59,570 Should this young man have been given that clearance? 1439 01:27:59,649 --> 01:28:02,744 In retrospect, certainly not. In prospect, who knows'? 1440 01:28:02,819 --> 01:28:05,868 These are the kinds of decisions that are difficult to make. 1441 01:28:05,947 --> 01:28:07,415 But let me put it to you this way, 1442 01:28:07,491 --> 01:28:10,665 the American Army has had incredibly stupid PFCs 1443 01:28:10,744 --> 01:28:11,961 for more than two centuries, 1444 01:28:13,663 --> 01:28:16,758 and PFCs occasionally do incredibly stupid things. 1445 01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:33,438 I didn't see him get arrested. 1446 01:28:33,558 --> 01:28:36,061 But I saw him walk down the hall 1447 01:28:36,311 --> 01:28:38,780 with about four MPs. 1448 01:28:39,606 --> 01:28:41,654 He had a grin on his face, 1449 01:28:42,150 --> 01:28:45,074 like, "I'm on top of the world." 1450 01:28:46,988 --> 01:28:50,492 The last communication I received from him 1451 01:28:50,659 --> 01:28:54,835 was that I was going to hear something that would shock the world. 1452 01:29:27,112 --> 01:29:28,864 It was a pretty simple process, 1453 01:29:28,947 --> 01:29:30,790 dropping CDs into your tower 1454 01:29:30,866 --> 01:29:32,789 and downloading large volumes of information. 1455 01:29:32,909 --> 01:29:36,288 It wasn't incredibly sophisticated. 1456 01:29:36,913 --> 01:29:38,540 That's not quite true. 1457 01:29:38,623 --> 01:29:42,469 Manning turned his computers into efficient exfiltration machines. 1458 01:29:42,586 --> 01:29:46,887 Over several months, Manning made over 794,000 connections 1459 01:29:46,965 --> 01:29:48,808 with the State Department's server. 1460 01:29:48,925 --> 01:29:51,474 He downloaded hundreds of thousands of documents 1461 01:29:51,595 --> 01:29:53,518 without anyone noticing. 1462 01:29:55,849 --> 01:29:57,066 When he hit a snag, 1463 01:29:57,142 --> 01:30:00,316 he reached out to another hacker for advice on how to crack passwords. 1464 01:30:06,902 --> 01:30:10,497 Later, Manning talked to him about the progress of the uploads. 1465 01:30:10,572 --> 01:30:14,622 In Manning's buddy list, the address was listed under a familiar name, 1466 01:30:14,701 --> 01:30:15,953 Julian Assange. 1467 01:30:58,578 --> 01:31:00,831 On November 28th, 2010, 1468 01:31:00,914 --> 01:31:02,916 WikiLeaks and its media partners 1469 01:31:03,041 --> 01:31:06,636 began to publish a small fraction, carefully redacted, 1470 01:31:06,711 --> 01:31:10,090 of the State Department cables supplied by Bradley Manning. 1471 01:31:10,548 --> 01:31:12,892 The day-to-day memos of American diplomats 1472 01:31:13,009 --> 01:31:16,889 revealed a surprising honesty about how the world really worked. 1473 01:31:17,389 --> 01:31:19,312 It was that whole Wizard of Oz moment. 1474 01:31:19,391 --> 01:31:22,440 We all look at these politicians, "Oh, wow, they're so powerful!" 1475 01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,609 And then it was the little dog pulling the curtain away. 1476 01:31:26,606 --> 01:31:29,405 The cables exposed criminal behavior and corruption 1477 01:31:29,526 --> 01:31:32,496 by tyrants in Egypt, Tunisia, and Libya. 1478 01:31:32,570 --> 01:31:33,822 That in turn helped to fuel 1479 01:31:33,905 --> 01:31:36,249 an exploding popular anger against repression, 1480 01:31:36,741 --> 01:31:38,994 the so-called Arab Spring. 1481 01:31:41,246 --> 01:31:42,498 They also told the truth 1482 01:31:42,580 --> 01:31:45,003 about the faults of America's so-called allies 1483 01:31:45,083 --> 01:31:46,926 in ways that were bound to reveal 1484 01:31:47,043 --> 01:31:49,762 that their power and legitimacy were a kind of fraud. 1485 01:31:51,715 --> 01:31:55,060 This leak is industrial scale. 1486 01:31:56,136 --> 01:31:58,764 It touches every relationship the United States has 1487 01:31:58,847 --> 01:32:00,849 with other countries around the world. 1488 01:32:01,516 --> 01:32:05,612 Even as the United States and others try to manage the impact of this, 1489 01:32:05,729 --> 01:32:10,701 it will be a wound that just keeps opening up on a recurring basis. 1490 01:32:12,152 --> 01:32:15,122 The behavior of the United States was also exposed, 1491 01:32:15,196 --> 01:32:17,369 as the cables revealed criminal cover-ups 1492 01:32:17,490 --> 01:32:21,745 and a systematic policy of using diplomats to spy on foreign governments. 1493 01:32:23,538 --> 01:32:25,290 Look, everyone has secrets. 1494 01:32:25,415 --> 01:32:28,589 Some of the activities that nation-states conduct 1495 01:32:28,668 --> 01:32:31,012 in order to keep their people safe and free 1496 01:32:31,087 --> 01:32:33,681 need to be secret in order to be successful. 1497 01:32:33,757 --> 01:32:35,759 If they are broadly known, 1498 01:32:36,384 --> 01:32:38,182 you cannot accomplish your work. 1499 01:32:38,261 --> 01:32:40,059 Now look, let me be very candid, all right. 1500 01:32:40,263 --> 01:32:42,140 We steal secrets. 1501 01:32:42,223 --> 01:32:44,442 We steal other nation's secrets. 1502 01:32:44,559 --> 01:32:46,357 One cannot do that aboveboard 1503 01:32:46,436 --> 01:32:49,360 and be very successful for a very long period of time. 1504 01:32:50,815 --> 01:32:53,568 Disclosures like these tear at the fabric 1505 01:32:53,693 --> 01:32:57,038 of the proper function of responsible government. 1506 01:32:57,864 --> 01:32:59,286 People of good faith 1507 01:32:59,365 --> 01:33:03,541 understand the need for sensitive diplomatic communications, 1508 01:33:04,079 --> 01:33:06,628 both to protect the national interest 1509 01:33:06,706 --> 01:33:08,424 and the global common interest. 1510 01:33:09,042 --> 01:33:10,794 For the previous leaks, the American government, 1511 01:33:10,877 --> 01:33:12,345 they were obviously angry, 1512 01:33:12,420 --> 01:33:14,468 but they suddenly decided, 1513 01:33:14,547 --> 01:33:18,097 "Right, now it's time to get Draconian on their ass." 1514 01:33:18,259 --> 01:33:21,729 It's time that the Obama administration treats WikiLeaks for what it is, 1515 01:33:21,888 --> 01:33:23,140 a terrorist organization. 1516 01:33:23,306 --> 01:33:26,685 What we should do is treat Assange as an enemy combatant, 1517 01:33:26,851 --> 01:33:29,695 who's engaged in information warfare against the United States. 1518 01:33:29,854 --> 01:33:32,232 He's a blackmail, extortionist, terrorist. 1519 01:33:32,357 --> 01:33:34,155 ...crackpot, alleged sex offender... 1520 01:33:34,234 --> 01:33:36,157 He's a criminal and he ought to be hunted down, 1521 01:33:36,236 --> 01:33:37,704 and grabbed, and put on trial. 1522 01:33:37,904 --> 01:33:42,034 We have a very serious criminal investigation that's underway 1523 01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:44,202 and we're looking at all of the things that we can do 1524 01:33:44,369 --> 01:33:45,871 to stern the flow of this information. 1525 01:33:45,995 --> 01:33:48,544 He needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, 1526 01:33:48,665 --> 01:33:50,963 and if that becomes a problem, we need to change the law. 1527 01:33:51,042 --> 01:33:52,669 We've got special ops forces. 1528 01:33:52,794 --> 01:33:54,637 A dead man can't leak stuff... 1529 01:33:54,712 --> 01:33:56,214 ...illegally shoot the son of a... 1530 01:33:56,339 --> 01:33:58,558 This little punk... Now I stand up for Obama. 1531 01:33:58,716 --> 01:34:01,845 Obama, if you're listening today, you should take this guy out. 1532 01:34:02,220 --> 01:34:05,724 I think Obama should put out a contract and maybe use a drone or something. 1533 01:34:05,849 --> 01:34:08,398 That's what I'd like to see, a little drone hit Assange, right. 1534 01:34:10,979 --> 01:34:13,073 All the threats were aimed at Assange. 1535 01:34:13,231 --> 01:34:16,576 No one called for attacks on The Guardian or The New York Times. 1536 01:34:17,527 --> 01:34:19,370 I found that astounding. 1537 01:34:19,529 --> 01:34:21,873 If Julian Assange should be charged 1538 01:34:22,031 --> 01:34:24,750 with some offense under American law, 1539 01:34:24,909 --> 01:34:27,458 then absolutely The New York Times editor 1540 01:34:27,537 --> 01:34:28,880 should be in the slammer with him. 1541 01:34:29,873 --> 01:34:32,171 Suddenly, only two days after the release 1542 01:34:32,333 --> 01:34:34,335 of the first batch of State Department cables, 1543 01:34:34,502 --> 01:34:36,880 Interpol issued a demand for Assange's arrest, 1544 01:34:37,046 --> 01:34:38,844 for his failure to return to Sweden 1545 01:34:39,048 --> 01:34:41,517 to answer questions about sex charges. 1546 01:34:42,886 --> 01:34:45,605 I'm really rather worried by the political motivations 1547 01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:47,023 that appear to be behind this. 1548 01:34:47,140 --> 01:34:49,438 Sweden was one of those lickspittle states 1549 01:34:49,517 --> 01:34:52,987 which used its resources and its facilities 1550 01:34:53,062 --> 01:34:55,030 for rendition flights and torture. 1551 01:34:55,106 --> 01:34:57,780 You think if he goes to Sweden, he may be sent to the States? 1552 01:34:57,859 --> 01:34:59,532 Certainly my mind is very open about that. 1553 01:34:59,611 --> 01:35:01,534 And you may fight it on that basis? Certainly. 1554 01:35:02,197 --> 01:35:05,371 There were rumors of a sealed indictment against Assange. 1555 01:35:05,533 --> 01:35:10,414 In secret, a U.S. grand jury served subpoenas targeting WikiLeaks supporters. 1556 01:35:10,496 --> 01:35:11,839 Under political pressure, 1557 01:35:11,956 --> 01:35:16,052 VISA and MasterCard stopped processing donations to the website. 1558 01:35:16,211 --> 01:35:18,680 VISA and MasterCard will happily process payments 1559 01:35:18,838 --> 01:35:20,511 for the Ku Klux Klan, 1560 01:35:20,715 --> 01:35:24,219 for all kinds of organizations around the world, 1561 01:35:24,385 --> 01:35:26,137 and yet this one, 1562 01:35:26,304 --> 01:35:28,727 with no charges, no warrants, no nothing, 1563 01:35:28,973 --> 01:35:32,819 they've not only blocked it themselves, they won't let any intermediaries do it. 1564 01:35:32,977 --> 01:35:36,823 Meanwhile, WikiLeaks' founder is still hiding from the police, 1565 01:35:36,898 --> 01:35:39,321 but today he did speak out, online. 1566 01:35:44,364 --> 01:35:48,210 What happens to WikiLeaks if Julian Assange is arrested? 1567 01:35:48,326 --> 01:35:51,956 This is carrying on, this is huge material that is really important, 1568 01:35:52,121 --> 01:35:54,795 and everyone working on it is getting it out there. 1569 01:35:55,708 --> 01:35:58,837 WikiLeaks' principal spokesman always has been Julian, 1570 01:35:59,003 --> 01:36:01,005 but with Julian being in hiding, 1571 01:36:01,172 --> 01:36:02,719 I essentially filled in the gap. 1572 01:36:02,966 --> 01:36:05,845 Where is Julian Assange, this mythic character'? 1573 01:36:06,344 --> 01:36:08,187 Honestly can't remember where I last saw him. 1574 01:36:08,805 --> 01:36:10,773 I ended up doing a lot of their television, 1575 01:36:10,932 --> 01:36:13,105 looking pretty much about 16. 1576 01:36:13,810 --> 01:36:17,189 You really did feel a David and Goliath moment. 1577 01:36:17,605 --> 01:36:22,361 Do you consider your organization and your website to be under attack? 1578 01:36:22,527 --> 01:36:24,200 Yes, all week it's been under attack. 1579 01:36:25,029 --> 01:36:27,327 The WikiLeaks website came under cyber attack 1580 01:36:27,490 --> 01:36:29,208 and kept falling offline. 1581 01:36:29,450 --> 01:36:32,294 In response, WikiLeaks supporters began to mirror the site 1582 01:36:32,453 --> 01:36:35,127 on over 1,000 servers around the globe. 1583 01:36:35,331 --> 01:36:38,210 It was impossible to remove WikiLeaks from the Internet. 1584 01:36:39,085 --> 01:36:40,462 The Internet in a digital era 1585 01:36:40,586 --> 01:36:44,056 lets governments get more information and more power 1586 01:36:44,173 --> 01:36:48,053 and more communication than they've ever had before. 1587 01:36:48,136 --> 01:36:51,015 But, it lets citizens do the same. 1588 01:36:51,681 --> 01:36:54,025 Governments are more powerful and more vulnerable 1589 01:36:54,183 --> 01:36:55,730 at exactly the same time. 1590 01:36:56,185 --> 01:36:57,482 The fight on our hands is 1591 01:36:57,562 --> 01:37:00,941 who gets to control the Internet, who gets to control information. 1592 01:37:02,275 --> 01:37:05,620 Hello. This is a classified message from Anonymous. 1593 01:37:05,903 --> 01:37:08,622 After numerous attacks on the truth-spilling platform of WikiLeaks, 1594 01:37:08,698 --> 01:37:10,700 ANONYMOUS hacker collective video 1595 01:37:10,783 --> 01:37:12,501 including the shutdown of its financing, 1596 01:37:12,577 --> 01:37:14,295 we have already made it very clear 1597 01:37:14,370 --> 01:37:17,044 that we will fight for freedom of speech and the free press. 1598 01:37:17,457 --> 01:37:18,754 We are Anonymous. 1599 01:37:18,833 --> 01:37:19,959 We are legion. 1600 01:37:20,043 --> 01:37:21,386 We do not forgive. 1601 01:37:21,461 --> 01:37:23,008 We do not forget. 1602 01:37:23,087 --> 01:37:25,931 In response to the financial blockade on WikiLeaks, 1603 01:37:26,007 --> 01:37:29,602 the hacker collective Anonymous launched cyber attacks, 1604 01:37:29,677 --> 01:37:32,931 taking down the websites of VISA, MasterCard, and PayPal. 1605 01:37:34,599 --> 01:37:36,272 Free Julian Assange! 1606 01:37:36,476 --> 01:37:37,773 Free Bradley Manning! 1607 01:37:37,935 --> 01:37:39,278 End the war. 1608 01:37:40,688 --> 01:37:42,281 Off the road, please! 1609 01:37:42,815 --> 01:37:44,112 Off the road. 1610 01:37:47,028 --> 01:37:48,075 Political prisoner! 1611 01:37:48,154 --> 01:37:49,201 You've been warned already! 1612 01:37:50,448 --> 01:37:51,449 We love you! 1613 01:37:53,701 --> 01:37:55,874 Free speech! 1614 01:37:56,287 --> 01:37:58,631 One week after the arrest warrant was issued, 1615 01:37:58,748 --> 01:38:01,092 Assange surrendered to police in London. 1616 01:38:01,167 --> 01:38:02,339 Deemed a flight risk, 1617 01:38:02,460 --> 01:38:05,304 he was ordered held in jail, pending a bail hearing. 1618 01:38:05,963 --> 01:38:08,682 Many people believe Mr. Assange to be innocent, 1619 01:38:08,925 --> 01:38:13,806 and many people believe that this prosecution is politically motivated. 1620 01:38:16,516 --> 01:38:18,985 Assange's arrest had become a mythic moment, 1621 01:38:19,185 --> 01:38:20,812 but what was really going on? 1622 01:38:22,855 --> 01:38:25,950 Was Sweden acting as an agent of the United States? 1623 01:38:26,776 --> 01:38:30,497 Would extradition to Sweden mean a one-way ticket to Guantanamo? 1624 01:38:31,239 --> 01:38:33,958 Or had the mission of WikiLeaks become confused 1625 01:38:34,158 --> 01:38:37,287 with a private matter between one man and two women? 1626 01:38:43,167 --> 01:38:45,135 Talk about why we're altering your appearance 1627 01:38:45,294 --> 01:38:47,342 and filming you in this way. 1628 01:38:47,505 --> 01:38:49,928 The reason I felt it was important to be obscured 1629 01:38:50,007 --> 01:38:54,353 is mainly because of all the threats I've received. 1630 01:38:55,263 --> 01:38:58,688 And I know that different media have published my face 1631 01:38:58,850 --> 01:39:00,102 without my consent. 1632 01:39:00,268 --> 01:39:01,770 And a lot of online communities 1633 01:39:01,936 --> 01:39:05,031 started to have wild speculations about who I was 1634 01:39:05,106 --> 01:39:06,858 and who the other girl was. 1635 01:39:08,526 --> 01:39:10,904 I feel that the less my face is shown 1636 01:39:11,028 --> 01:39:13,372 and the less people can recognize me, 1637 01:39:13,448 --> 01:39:14,540 the safer I will be. 1638 01:39:15,658 --> 01:39:17,331 Anna has been advised not to talk 1639 01:39:17,493 --> 01:39:20,542 about any of the details of her sexual encounter with Assange 1640 01:39:20,705 --> 01:39:22,924 until the legal case has been resolved. 1641 01:39:23,207 --> 01:39:26,336 But there are a few facts on which everyone agrees. 1642 01:39:27,086 --> 01:39:30,090 An organizer for a WikiLeaks seminar in Stockholm, 1643 01:39:30,214 --> 01:39:34,344 Anna invited Julian to stay at her apartment while she was out of town. 1644 01:39:34,510 --> 01:39:36,888 Then she decided to come back early. 1645 01:39:39,223 --> 01:39:40,600 The following day at the seminar, 1646 01:39:40,766 --> 01:39:43,485 Julian was approached by another WikiLeaks volunteer. 1647 01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:46,522 Her name was Sofia. 1648 01:39:48,524 --> 01:39:50,572 Sofia wanted to see Julian, wanted to touch Julian 1649 01:39:50,693 --> 01:39:52,161 wanted to be close to Julian. 1650 01:39:53,237 --> 01:39:54,830 Honestly, I think 1651 01:39:55,907 --> 01:39:57,204 he was a rock star 1652 01:39:57,575 --> 01:39:59,873 and he was picking the fruit. 1653 01:40:00,244 --> 01:40:02,918 The truth is the first casualty of war. 1654 01:40:03,247 --> 01:40:04,749 One week after the seminar 1655 01:40:04,874 --> 01:40:06,751 Anna called me and said, "Donald..." 1656 01:40:06,876 --> 01:40:09,095 "I was very proud to have the hottest man on the planet" 1657 01:40:09,212 --> 01:40:11,590 "in my apartment, in my bed even." 1658 01:40:11,672 --> 01:40:13,674 "But then something happened I didn't like." 1659 01:40:13,758 --> 01:40:15,635 "He tore the condom." 1660 01:40:16,302 --> 01:40:17,929 "I feel very uncomfortable about it." 1661 01:40:18,846 --> 01:40:21,725 And then she told me Sofia called her 1662 01:40:21,807 --> 01:40:23,525 about the same thing. 1663 01:40:23,601 --> 01:40:27,481 She was very concerned she's pregnant or catch HIV 1664 01:40:27,563 --> 01:40:30,157 because Julian had sex with her without a condom. 1665 01:40:30,650 --> 01:40:33,073 They said if Julian takes an HIV test 1666 01:40:33,528 --> 01:40:34,780 we won't go to the police. 1667 01:40:35,238 --> 01:40:37,616 I tried actually to tell his friends 1668 01:40:37,782 --> 01:40:41,787 that we can get this over with fast and with no fuss 1669 01:40:42,078 --> 01:40:45,503 because I really didn't want this to be in the papers. 1670 01:40:46,082 --> 01:40:49,427 But he chose to make a big deal out of it. 1671 01:40:50,545 --> 01:40:53,219 Julian had repeatedly refused to have the test. 1672 01:40:53,381 --> 01:40:56,260 When he had finally changed his mind and agreed to, it was too late. 1673 01:40:56,342 --> 01:40:58,344 By that time, the women had already got too frustrated 1674 01:40:58,427 --> 01:41:00,350 and too angry with Julian's refusals, 1675 01:41:00,429 --> 01:41:01,772 and they'd gone to the police. 1676 01:41:04,100 --> 01:41:07,070 They found out that they were mutual lovers of mine, 1677 01:41:07,228 --> 01:41:09,981 they had had unprotected sex, and they got into a tizzy 1678 01:41:10,147 --> 01:41:14,823 about whether there was possibility of sexually transmitted diseases. 1679 01:41:15,152 --> 01:41:17,154 Ridiculous thing to go to the police about. 1680 01:41:18,489 --> 01:41:22,585 When the women went to the police to try to force Assange to take an HIV test, 1681 01:41:22,827 --> 01:41:26,081 their testimony raised questions about possible criminal charges. 1682 01:41:26,914 --> 01:41:30,418 The police, on their own, decided to investigate further. 1683 01:41:31,335 --> 01:41:34,214 The refusal to use a condom took center stage. 1684 01:41:34,338 --> 01:41:38,343 If Assange had HIV and knew it, it could be a case for assault. 1685 01:41:39,510 --> 01:41:42,229 “...Assange... firmly holding arms and prying her legs open...” 1686 01:41:42,305 --> 01:41:44,399 “Anna is convinced that Assange... broke the condom...” 1687 01:41:44,473 --> 01:41:47,693 “...and...continued having sex with a subsequent ejaculation.” 1688 01:41:47,852 --> 01:41:50,526 The testimony of the women raised another issue. 1689 01:41:51,022 --> 01:41:53,024 Did Assange refuse to use a condom 1690 01:41:53,149 --> 01:41:55,322 because he wanted to make the women pregnant? 1691 01:41:55,401 --> 01:41:58,826 Some pointed to the fact that he had already fathered four children 1692 01:41:58,904 --> 01:42:01,373 with four different women around the world. 1693 01:42:02,533 --> 01:42:03,830 This is a man who's elusive, 1694 01:42:03,993 --> 01:42:07,497 he's always flying around the place, he doesn't have any roots. 1695 01:42:07,663 --> 01:42:08,835 And he's got a number of kids. 1696 01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:11,042 There might be some sort of primary impulse in him 1697 01:42:11,167 --> 01:42:14,216 to want to just reproduce, 1698 01:42:14,378 --> 01:42:16,972 to want to have some sort of bedrock in his life. 1699 01:42:17,048 --> 01:42:19,392 This is the ultimate digital man, 1700 01:42:19,508 --> 01:42:21,476 and actually you can't just live in a digital world. 1701 01:42:23,054 --> 01:42:26,149 "...was woken by the feeling of penetrating her." 1702 01:42:26,223 --> 01:42:29,102 "He was already inside of her and she let him continue." 1703 01:42:29,185 --> 01:42:32,189 "She immediately asked 'Are you wearing anything' and he replied 'You."' 1704 01:42:32,271 --> 01:42:35,366 I have never said that this is a honey trap. 1705 01:42:35,733 --> 01:42:38,703 I have never said that it is not a honey trap. 1706 01:42:40,988 --> 01:42:45,994 He was claiming that he didn't know who we were, 1707 01:42:46,077 --> 01:42:48,671 and that's not true. 1708 01:42:48,829 --> 01:42:50,672 He knew very well who we were, 1709 01:42:51,248 --> 01:42:54,343 and he knew we were going to the police before we went. 1710 01:42:55,336 --> 01:42:57,259 There are powerful interests 1711 01:42:57,421 --> 01:43:01,847 that have incentives to promote these smears. 1712 01:43:05,388 --> 01:43:08,733 What Julian did was to start the little snowball rolling downhill, 1713 01:43:08,891 --> 01:43:10,484 that this was some kind of a conspiracy. 1714 01:43:10,643 --> 01:43:12,190 And that was all he had to do at that stage. 1715 01:43:12,269 --> 01:43:14,647 It rolled and it picked up speed. 1716 01:43:14,730 --> 01:43:19,987 A lot of rumors were made up and pure fantasies. 1717 01:43:20,069 --> 01:43:24,074 The wildest story of all was that I was a CIA agent. 1718 01:43:25,199 --> 01:43:27,122 And I was like, I couldn't really believe 1719 01:43:27,284 --> 01:43:30,128 that anyone would believe such a weird story. 1720 01:43:32,665 --> 01:43:33,712 From outside I can understand 1721 01:43:33,791 --> 01:43:35,134 it must be a conspiracy. 1722 01:43:35,292 --> 01:43:37,386 But, I was in the middle of it. 1723 01:43:37,461 --> 01:43:38,929 Sorry to say it was not 1724 01:43:39,004 --> 01:43:41,348 two girls in short skirts 1725 01:43:41,465 --> 01:43:43,718 sent in from the CIA or whatever. 1726 01:43:44,176 --> 01:43:47,305 They were just ordinary, nice girls 1727 01:43:48,472 --> 01:43:51,191 admiring Julian and WikiLeaks. 1728 01:43:51,726 --> 01:43:54,946 You've been very careful not to say anything. 1729 01:43:55,146 --> 01:43:56,489 Why? 1730 01:43:57,148 --> 01:44:01,324 Because this is a legal case, and not a public debate. 1731 01:44:01,527 --> 01:44:03,029 Sweden! Shame on you! 1732 01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:06,540 Sweden! Shame on you! 1733 01:44:06,866 --> 01:44:11,121 The way Julian's private affairs have been conflated with WikiLeaks, 1734 01:44:11,328 --> 01:44:12,830 I find quite troubling. 1735 01:44:13,122 --> 01:44:17,468 There was at one point an effort to try and separate the two issues. 1736 01:44:17,626 --> 01:44:18,798 That was reversed 1737 01:44:18,961 --> 01:44:22,090 and the decision was made to push the two causes together. 1738 01:44:22,757 --> 01:44:24,430 And so it just... 1739 01:44:24,633 --> 01:44:26,510 How was that reversed? Was there a meeting? 1740 01:44:26,677 --> 01:44:29,601 Was there... Or it just slid into that direction? 1741 01:44:29,847 --> 01:44:31,190 Julian reversed it. 1742 01:44:31,307 --> 01:44:32,354 Explicitly. 1743 01:44:32,516 --> 01:44:36,316 He very much wanted what happened in Sweden 1744 01:44:36,479 --> 01:44:38,857 to be seen as part of the transparency agenda. 1745 01:44:39,523 --> 01:44:40,524 And it worked. 1746 01:44:40,983 --> 01:44:45,614 I'm here because the U.S. government and the Swedish authorities 1747 01:44:45,696 --> 01:44:47,698 are trying to gag the truth. 1748 01:44:47,865 --> 01:44:50,994 These charges are completely politically motivated 1749 01:44:51,118 --> 01:44:54,213 and have nothing whatsoever to do with the prosecution. 1750 01:44:54,330 --> 01:44:56,753 It's a persecution, not a prosecution. 1751 01:44:58,793 --> 01:45:01,262 What is so extraordinary is the way in which the two women 1752 01:45:01,420 --> 01:45:03,263 have been either completely forgotten, 1753 01:45:03,422 --> 01:45:05,766 as though they had no rights here at all, 1754 01:45:05,841 --> 01:45:09,345 or caricatured, vilified. 1755 01:45:09,428 --> 01:45:11,726 Web post by Assange supporter 1756 01:45:11,806 --> 01:45:13,149 I've been through two years 1757 01:45:13,224 --> 01:45:15,977 of different kinds of abuses. 1758 01:45:16,143 --> 01:45:17,690 People coming to my house, 1759 01:45:17,895 --> 01:45:21,149 people threatening, or questioning 1760 01:45:21,357 --> 01:45:23,985 or following my friends and family. 1761 01:45:24,360 --> 01:45:25,532 Some death threats, 1762 01:45:25,694 --> 01:45:31,167 but mostly sexual threats that I deserve to get raped. 1763 01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:37,248 A lot of Twitter accounts and blogs 1764 01:45:37,331 --> 01:45:39,754 that are very close to WikiLeaks 1765 01:45:39,834 --> 01:45:44,260 have been publishing things that I know Julian knows is not true. 1766 01:45:46,799 --> 01:45:50,520 They admire him very much, and he could have easily stopped that. 1767 01:45:52,096 --> 01:45:55,100 There was an enormous amount of hype and misinformation 1768 01:45:55,182 --> 01:45:58,436 and bullshit that came out of Julian Assange's supporters. 1769 01:45:58,602 --> 01:46:00,650 And the more that people realize 1770 01:46:00,813 --> 01:46:02,941 that they were lied to by Julian, 1771 01:46:03,190 --> 01:46:06,444 the less moral and political authority he has. 1772 01:46:06,610 --> 01:46:08,362 He's supposed to be about truth. 1773 01:46:08,487 --> 01:46:09,989 Information should be free! 1774 01:46:10,114 --> 01:46:11,707 This is not democracy! 1775 01:46:11,866 --> 01:46:13,243 We want free speech! 1776 01:46:13,409 --> 01:46:14,661 Hands off WikiLeaks! 1777 01:46:14,827 --> 01:46:16,170 We want free speech! 1778 01:46:16,328 --> 01:46:17,796 Hands off WikiLeaks! 1779 01:46:17,955 --> 01:46:19,628 What do we want? Free speech! 1780 01:46:19,790 --> 01:46:21,508 When do we want it? Now! 1781 01:46:23,252 --> 01:46:25,004 Free Julian Assange! 1782 01:46:25,296 --> 01:46:29,267 Free Julian Assange! 1783 01:46:40,728 --> 01:46:43,481 Good evening, and welcome to this fundraising dinner 1784 01:46:43,647 --> 01:46:44,990 for freedom of speech. 1785 01:46:46,442 --> 01:46:49,321 While I cannot be with you in person this evening 1786 01:46:49,403 --> 01:46:51,405 because I am under house arrest, 1787 01:46:52,072 --> 01:46:54,996 I can at least be with you in spirit. 1788 01:46:59,622 --> 01:47:02,421 After nine days, Assange was released from prison, 1789 01:47:02,499 --> 01:47:06,094 his supporters putting up over $300, 000 in bail. 1790 01:47:06,503 --> 01:47:09,052 While Julian appealed his extradition to Sweden, 1791 01:47:09,131 --> 01:47:12,886 a local journalist named Vaughan Smith offered Julian a place to stay. 1792 01:47:13,928 --> 01:47:17,933 Ellingham Hall is 125 miles northeast of London. 1793 01:47:18,515 --> 01:47:21,985 It's a house that's been in my family for 250 years or so. 1794 01:47:22,686 --> 01:47:25,109 We've got livestock, we've got cattle, we've got sheep. 1795 01:47:25,648 --> 01:47:27,650 We've got game, obviously, pheasant, partridge. 1796 01:47:27,733 --> 01:47:29,280 We shoot them and eat them. 1797 01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:39,958 Ellingham Hall is a lovely place, 1798 01:47:40,037 --> 01:47:42,131 but it's right in the middle of nowhere, 1799 01:47:42,247 --> 01:47:45,751 and we'd packed it with about 15-20 people. 1800 01:47:47,002 --> 01:47:50,347 It's a sort of cross between Big Brother and a spy thriller. 1801 01:47:56,929 --> 01:47:59,432 Part of Vaughan's plan to keep the thing civilized 1802 01:47:59,515 --> 01:48:01,768 was setting strict rules around meals, 1803 01:48:02,142 --> 01:48:06,989 and so Vaughan's very lovely housekeeper would cook for us three times a day. 1804 01:48:07,272 --> 01:48:09,115 Even port served at dinner, 1805 01:48:09,316 --> 01:48:12,069 which was passed to the left, of course. 1806 01:48:12,653 --> 01:48:14,121 And now we are in a position 1807 01:48:14,238 --> 01:48:15,740 WikiLeaks fundraising video 1808 01:48:15,823 --> 01:48:18,417 where we are being most aggressively censored 1809 01:48:18,575 --> 01:48:22,000 by the Washington establishment of the United States. 1810 01:48:22,121 --> 01:48:23,839 To raise money for his legal defense, 1811 01:48:24,123 --> 01:48:26,842 Assange began selling a compelling package: 1812 01:48:26,959 --> 01:48:28,427 Dinner with Julian. 1813 01:48:29,294 --> 01:48:30,921 In exchange for a donation, 1814 01:48:31,005 --> 01:48:33,474 WikiLeaks would provide a link to a video of Julian 1815 01:48:33,590 --> 01:48:35,388 to be played at home on a laptop, 1816 01:48:35,467 --> 01:48:37,970 placed on a tablemat set for the absent hacker. 1817 01:48:38,095 --> 01:48:43,443 And together, we make the world into a place where all our dreams can play. 1818 01:48:43,934 --> 01:48:46,107 This Dinner for Free Speech 1819 01:48:46,270 --> 01:48:49,945 was in fact dinner for Julian's sex offense defense fund. 1820 01:48:50,649 --> 01:48:54,074 No one knows now whether money given to WikiLeaks 1821 01:48:54,153 --> 01:48:56,326 is going to Julian or elsewhere. 1822 01:49:00,451 --> 01:49:02,954 Julian's legal troubles made him more famous than ever, 1823 01:49:03,620 --> 01:49:07,966 but they also intensified his differences with his former media partners. 1824 01:49:08,125 --> 01:49:09,877 They defended his right to publish 1825 01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:12,463 but began to turn on Assange himself. 1826 01:49:13,297 --> 01:49:15,800 I've been close enough to see the 1827 01:49:16,300 --> 01:49:17,973 wasps around the jam here. 1828 01:49:18,302 --> 01:49:19,554 He stirred the nest 1829 01:49:19,636 --> 01:49:22,230 and they've come to sting him rather more than perhaps he expected. 1830 01:49:22,806 --> 01:49:25,434 In a January piece, you described Assange as 1831 01:49:25,517 --> 01:49:28,191 "eccentric, " "elusive, " "manipulative, " "volatile, " 1832 01:49:28,353 --> 01:49:30,902 "openly hostile, " "coy, " an "office geek," 1833 01:49:31,065 --> 01:49:34,194 a "derelict, " "arrogant," "thin-skinned, " "conspiratorial, " 1834 01:49:34,359 --> 01:49:35,576 and "oddly credulous. " 1835 01:49:35,736 --> 01:49:39,240 Um, is that any way for a journalist to talk about his sources? 1836 01:49:39,323 --> 01:49:40,996 He looked like a bag lady coming in. 1837 01:49:41,075 --> 01:49:43,669 He was wearing kind of a dingy khaki sports coat, 1838 01:49:43,827 --> 01:49:44,953 old tennis shoes, 1839 01:49:45,079 --> 01:49:47,377 with socks that were kind of collapsing around his ankles. 1840 01:49:47,498 --> 01:49:49,671 And he clearly hadn't bathed in several days. 1841 01:49:50,375 --> 01:49:53,504 The New York Times... The hypocrisy of this act. 1842 01:49:53,670 --> 01:49:54,762 They wanted the material. 1843 01:49:54,838 --> 01:49:58,183 They were fully complicit in the publication of the material. 1844 01:49:58,258 --> 01:50:01,558 But as soon as the heat came on, they wanted to wash their hands. 1845 01:50:05,057 --> 01:50:08,812 I tried over many months to get an on-camera interview with Assange. 1846 01:50:09,561 --> 01:50:11,313 After meetings and emails, 1847 01:50:11,396 --> 01:50:13,194 I was finally summoned to the Norfolk mansion 1848 01:50:13,273 --> 01:50:15,526 for a six-hour negotiation. 1849 01:50:16,068 --> 01:50:17,536 Julian wanted money. 1850 01:50:17,611 --> 01:50:20,080 He said that the market rate for an interview with him 1851 01:50:20,197 --> 01:50:21,915 was one million dollars. 1852 01:50:22,032 --> 01:50:24,535 When I declined, he offered an alternative, 1853 01:50:24,618 --> 01:50:28,248 perhaps I would spy on my other interviews and report back to him. 1854 01:50:28,372 --> 01:50:30,374 I couldn't do that either. 1855 01:50:30,457 --> 01:50:34,553 During his time under house arrest, he had become more secretive and paranoid. 1856 01:50:35,045 --> 01:50:36,718 He railed against his enemies, 1857 01:50:36,880 --> 01:50:39,053 and I knew that he had tried to get all his followers 1858 01:50:39,133 --> 01:50:41,135 to sign a non-disclosure agreement. 1859 01:50:41,260 --> 01:50:42,978 The penalty for leaking, 1860 01:50:43,053 --> 01:50:44,805 $ 19 million. 1861 01:50:45,848 --> 01:50:47,771 I'd found this a little bit awkward, 1862 01:50:48,058 --> 01:50:51,062 being asked by a transparency organization 1863 01:50:51,228 --> 01:50:53,151 to sign exactly the kind of document 1864 01:50:53,230 --> 01:50:56,279 used to silence whistle-blowers around the world. 1865 01:50:57,234 --> 01:50:59,953 Seemed pretty troubling. And so I refused. 1866 01:51:01,613 --> 01:51:05,413 All organizations face two possible paths. 1867 01:51:05,617 --> 01:51:09,417 They can be open, honest, just, 1868 01:51:09,788 --> 01:51:13,588 or they can be closed, unjust, 1869 01:51:14,001 --> 01:51:16,003 and therefore not successful. 1870 01:51:18,172 --> 01:51:21,096 Had the secret-leaker become the secret-keeper? 1871 01:51:21,175 --> 01:51:23,553 More and more fond of mysteries. 1872 01:51:23,677 --> 01:51:27,181 The biggest mystery of all was the role of the United States. 1873 01:51:27,264 --> 01:51:29,687 Over two years after the first leak, 1874 01:51:29,766 --> 01:51:32,394 no charges have been filed by the U.S. 1875 01:51:34,188 --> 01:51:37,032 Assange claimed that the U. S. was biding its time, 1876 01:51:37,107 --> 01:51:39,155 waiting for him to go to Sweden. 1877 01:51:39,568 --> 01:51:41,070 But there was no proof. 1878 01:51:41,153 --> 01:51:43,827 In fact, members of Assange's legal team 1879 01:51:43,989 --> 01:51:45,332 admitted that it would be easier 1880 01:51:45,449 --> 01:51:48,578 for the U.S. to extradite Assange from Britain. 1881 01:51:48,911 --> 01:51:51,130 Britain is the one that's done this special deal 1882 01:51:51,205 --> 01:51:52,707 with the United States on extradition. 1883 01:51:52,789 --> 01:51:54,883 But Sweden is particularly strong 1884 01:51:54,958 --> 01:52:00,931 in seeing as sacrosanct that business about handing people over. 1885 01:52:01,006 --> 01:52:03,680 They would hold to that perhaps stronger than Britain would. 1886 01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:06,474 We think we've got a special relationship with the United States. 1887 01:52:07,721 --> 01:52:09,723 Despite that special relationship, 1888 01:52:09,890 --> 01:52:12,359 Assange desperately fought extradition to Sweden 1889 01:52:12,684 --> 01:52:13,981 and lost every appeal. 1890 01:52:14,061 --> 01:52:15,654 Julian, we are with you! 1891 01:52:16,230 --> 01:52:17,982 His legal battle drained his finances 1892 01:52:18,148 --> 01:52:20,992 and trapped him in a family farm for over a year. 1893 01:52:22,611 --> 01:52:26,832 Hoped for funding didn't come, and WikiLeaks suspended operations. 1894 01:52:26,949 --> 01:52:29,828 His international organization had blown apart. 1895 01:52:31,119 --> 01:52:34,339 In Berlin, Daniel Domscheit-Berg quit the organization. 1896 01:52:35,123 --> 01:52:38,673 So did the mysterious figure who had built the secret submission system. 1897 01:52:39,378 --> 01:52:42,473 Assange no longer had a drop box for new leaks. 1898 01:52:43,131 --> 01:52:47,432 In London, journalist Heather Brooke was leaked unredacted copies 1899 01:52:47,511 --> 01:52:50,515 of all of the State Department cables by a WikiLeaks insider. 1900 01:52:51,265 --> 01:52:54,360 There was the initial people that Julian gave the information to 1901 01:52:54,434 --> 01:52:56,528 and then, how many people did they give it to, 1902 01:52:56,603 --> 01:52:58,276 and then how many people did they give it to? 1903 01:52:58,939 --> 01:53:02,193 Some of the cables also leaked to a European dictator 1904 01:53:02,276 --> 01:53:06,031 who used them to target dissidents and suppress free speech. 1905 01:53:06,154 --> 01:53:08,828 This is at the core of where things went wrong, 1906 01:53:09,616 --> 01:53:12,870 and where ultimately WikiLeaks has lost control 1907 01:53:12,953 --> 01:53:15,581 over the spread of these documents. 1908 01:53:16,248 --> 01:53:19,548 In the end, all of the cables leaked across the Internet 1909 01:53:19,626 --> 01:53:22,300 on mirrored versions of WikiLeaks. org. 1910 01:53:25,924 --> 01:53:28,552 All Julian had left was his celebrity. 1911 01:53:30,637 --> 01:53:31,854 How you doing, Mr. Assange? 1912 01:53:31,930 --> 01:53:33,432 That's my personal information 1913 01:53:33,515 --> 01:53:35,483 and you have no right to know about it! 1914 01:53:36,310 --> 01:53:40,986 Julian extended his brand by hosting a chat show for Russian state television. 1915 01:53:41,189 --> 01:53:42,441 Where are you? In England? 1916 01:53:42,524 --> 01:53:46,779 lam in England, under house arrest now for 500 days. 1917 01:53:47,154 --> 01:53:48,497 Five hundred days. 1918 01:53:48,697 --> 01:53:52,793 One of his guests was Rafael Correa, the president of Ecuador. 1919 01:53:54,995 --> 01:53:56,338 Welcome to the club of the persecuted! 1920 01:53:56,455 --> 01:53:58,048 Thank you, President Correa. 1921 01:53:58,123 --> 01:54:00,000 A month after the program aired, 1922 01:54:00,083 --> 01:54:03,007 Assange sought asylum from his former TV guest. 1923 01:54:09,259 --> 01:54:12,559 This morning the sun came up on a different world, 1924 01:54:12,637 --> 01:54:15,311 and a courageous Latin American nation took a stand for justice. 1925 01:54:15,432 --> 01:54:17,685 Embassy of Ecuador London, England 1926 01:54:18,643 --> 01:54:20,395 It was an ironic choice. 1927 01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:23,153 Ecuador had a record of putting journalists in prison 1928 01:54:24,983 --> 01:54:28,487 and had been charged with corruption in a WikiLeaks cable. 1929 01:54:28,612 --> 01:54:33,118 The United States must renounce its witch hunt against WikiLeaks. 1930 01:54:34,951 --> 01:54:37,670 Despite no proof of a US-Sweden plot, 1931 01:54:37,788 --> 01:54:40,007 Ecuador granted him asylum. 1932 01:54:40,123 --> 01:54:44,253 The British government pledged to arrest him if he left the tight confines of the embassy, 1933 01:54:44,336 --> 01:54:46,964 so Assange prepared for a long stay. 1934 01:54:49,925 --> 01:54:51,302 I saw the signs 1935 01:54:51,426 --> 01:54:54,396 "Free Bradley Manning" and "Free Julian Assange, " 1936 01:54:54,471 --> 01:54:55,848 and I think it's ridiculous. 1937 01:54:56,264 --> 01:54:58,938 These two cases have nothing to do with each other. 1938 01:54:59,893 --> 01:55:01,611 Julian, he's not even imprisoned. 1939 01:55:01,895 --> 01:55:05,991 He has locked himself up to avoid coming to Sweden 1940 01:55:06,066 --> 01:55:10,162 to answer a few pretty simple questions. 1941 01:55:15,575 --> 01:55:19,296 There is a phenomenon called Noble Cause Corruption. 1942 01:55:19,996 --> 01:55:22,840 Essentially, you do things which 1943 01:55:23,041 --> 01:55:27,421 if anyone else did you would recognize aren't okay, aren't right. 1944 01:55:27,963 --> 01:55:30,557 But because you know you're a good guy, 1945 01:55:30,632 --> 01:55:31,758 it's different for you. 1946 01:55:33,301 --> 01:55:35,303 I suppose you can't accuse Julian 1947 01:55:35,387 --> 01:55:38,357 of not setting out from the beginning what he may do. 1948 01:55:38,432 --> 01:55:39,900 Mendax by name, 1949 01:55:39,975 --> 01:55:41,602 Mendax by nature. 1950 01:55:46,106 --> 01:55:48,484 The same extraordinary personality 1951 01:55:48,567 --> 01:55:52,197 which conceived of and created WikiLeaks 1952 01:55:52,279 --> 01:55:54,532 is also the same personality 1953 01:55:54,614 --> 01:55:57,584 that has effectively destroyed WikiLeaks. 1954 01:55:57,701 --> 01:56:00,875 WikiLeaks has become what it detests 1955 01:56:00,954 --> 01:56:05,380 and what it actually tried to rid the world of. 1956 01:56:07,461 --> 01:56:11,967 We must get away from this understanding that we see Julian as a savior, 1957 01:56:12,382 --> 01:56:15,761 as some new guru, some new hero, 1958 01:56:15,886 --> 01:56:17,980 some new pop star or whatever, 1959 01:56:18,054 --> 01:56:19,556 that's going to change all of it. 1960 01:56:21,266 --> 01:56:23,735 The credit is undue. 1961 01:56:23,810 --> 01:56:26,654 Everybody celebrating Julian as a whistle-blower. 1962 01:56:26,730 --> 01:56:28,107 He's not. 1963 01:56:28,231 --> 01:56:30,575 Bradley Manning might have been a whistle-blower, 1964 01:56:30,650 --> 01:56:33,574 and, if he was, he is the courageous guy. 1965 01:56:34,279 --> 01:56:36,247 He is the one that took all the risk 1966 01:56:36,323 --> 01:56:39,827 and in the end now has... ls suffering. 1967 01:56:44,039 --> 01:56:45,757 Free Bradley Manning! 1968 01:56:48,293 --> 01:56:50,921 After his arrest, Manning had been held for two months 1969 01:56:51,087 --> 01:56:53,761 in an eight-by-eight foot cage in Kuwait. 1970 01:56:54,716 --> 01:56:58,266 Then he was transferred to the Marine Corps brig in Quantico, Virginia. 1971 01:56:58,386 --> 01:57:00,855 Though Manning had not been tried for any crime, 1972 01:57:00,931 --> 01:57:04,105 he was kept in solitary confinement for nearly a year. 1973 01:57:04,226 --> 01:57:06,228 Shame! Sit yo' ass down! 1974 01:57:07,103 --> 01:57:10,198 Bradley Manning, the alleged leaker is currently sitting in prison 1975 01:57:10,273 --> 01:57:11,946 2010 Hackers on Planet Earth conference 1976 01:57:12,067 --> 01:57:13,364 and he could be locked up for the rest of his life. 1977 01:57:13,443 --> 01:57:14,615 How do you feel about that? 1978 01:57:15,862 --> 01:57:16,863 He could be tortured. 1979 01:57:16,947 --> 01:57:19,291 I think that it's a little bit ludicrous 1980 01:57:19,407 --> 01:57:22,286 to say that Bradley Manning's going to be tortured. 1981 01:57:22,369 --> 01:57:25,873 We don't do that to our citizens. 1982 01:57:27,415 --> 01:57:28,632 Free Bradley Manning! 1983 01:57:28,750 --> 01:57:29,797 A high-ranking general 1984 01:57:29,918 --> 01:57:34,640 authorized Manning's placement in solitary confinement on suicide watch 1985 01:57:34,714 --> 01:57:36,716 against the protest of prison doctors. 1986 01:57:37,551 --> 01:57:39,770 His clothes and blankets were taken from him. 1987 01:57:39,844 --> 01:57:42,142 Lights in his cell were always on. 1988 01:57:42,222 --> 01:57:45,442 When he questioned his treatment, guards took away his glasses 1989 01:57:45,517 --> 01:57:48,396 and forced him to stand naked during morning roll call. 1990 01:57:49,020 --> 01:57:52,024 At night, guards kept him cold and woke him frequently, 1991 01:57:52,107 --> 01:57:56,362 a practice that recalled the sleep deprivation program at Guantanamo. 1992 01:57:56,778 --> 01:57:58,496 Manning's supporters speculated 1993 01:57:58,572 --> 01:58:00,700 that the U.S. government was trying to push Manning 1994 01:58:00,782 --> 01:58:03,626 to turn on Assange and implicate him in a crime. 1995 01:58:05,161 --> 01:58:06,754 What was your reaction about 1996 01:58:06,830 --> 01:58:08,377 Bradley Manning's treatment at Quantico? 1997 01:58:08,456 --> 01:58:11,710 It seemed to me that sleep deprivation and nudity, 1998 01:58:11,835 --> 01:58:14,634 these were what I would call "enhanced interrogation techniques." 1999 01:58:14,754 --> 01:58:17,633 They were being practiced on an individual. No. 2000 01:58:17,716 --> 01:58:19,468 Look, I don't know the specifics. 2001 01:58:19,551 --> 01:58:22,020 I don't know the rules of confinement 2002 01:58:22,095 --> 01:58:23,768 for the Marine brig at Quantico. 2003 01:58:23,930 --> 01:58:26,809 But Bob Gates is an incredibly honorable man. 2004 01:58:26,891 --> 01:58:30,236 Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mike Mullen is an incredibly honorable man. 2005 01:58:30,353 --> 01:58:32,151 I defer very much to their judgment 2006 01:58:32,230 --> 01:58:34,904 that whatever was done was appropriate. 2007 01:58:39,696 --> 01:58:42,700 The treatment that he was receiving at Quantico, 2008 01:58:42,866 --> 01:58:45,039 the level of solitary confinement, 2009 01:58:45,201 --> 01:58:48,171 the fact that his clothes were taken away at night, 2010 01:58:48,246 --> 01:58:52,046 it was inconsistent with our values and our interests. 2011 01:58:52,167 --> 01:58:55,592 It was making Bradley Manning a far more sympathetic figure 2012 01:58:55,837 --> 01:58:56,884 than I see him. 2013 01:58:57,047 --> 01:59:00,847 When I was asked about it in a forum at MIT, 2014 01:59:01,843 --> 01:59:03,390 I gave a candid answer. 2015 01:59:03,553 --> 01:59:05,897 State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley 2016 01:59:06,014 --> 01:59:09,735 said the treatment of Bradley Manning by the Pentagon 2017 01:59:09,851 --> 01:59:12,980 is "ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid," 2018 01:59:13,063 --> 01:59:14,690 and I'm wondering if you agree with that. 2019 01:59:15,065 --> 01:59:16,237 Uh... 2020 01:59:16,358 --> 01:59:17,826 I have actually asked the Pentagon 2021 01:59:17,901 --> 01:59:22,247 whether or not the procedures that have been taken 2022 01:59:22,489 --> 01:59:26,494 in terms of his confinement are appropriate 2023 01:59:26,743 --> 01:59:29,667 and are meeting our basic standards. 2024 01:59:30,497 --> 01:59:32,499 They assure me that they are. 2025 01:59:32,874 --> 01:59:34,217 I was appalled at that. 2026 01:59:34,376 --> 01:59:38,381 I was appalled at that with respect to the President's responsibility 2027 01:59:38,546 --> 01:59:39,889 as Commander-in-Chief. 2028 01:59:40,173 --> 01:59:41,425 Any commander... 2029 01:59:41,508 --> 01:59:44,182 Any commander knows that first and foremost 2030 01:59:44,344 --> 01:59:47,018 he or she is responsible for the well-being 2031 01:59:47,222 --> 01:59:49,816 of each and every one of their soldiers, 2032 01:59:49,974 --> 01:59:52,397 to include the ones sitting in the brig. 2033 01:59:52,519 --> 01:59:55,489 I can't go into details about some of their concerns, 2034 01:59:55,647 --> 01:59:59,652 but some of this has to do with Private Manning's safety as well. 2035 02:00:01,277 --> 02:00:02,620 Do you disagree with P.J. Crowley? 2036 02:00:02,821 --> 02:00:05,870 I think I gave you an answer to the substantive issue. 2037 02:00:06,408 --> 02:00:09,503 Once my comments were brought to the President of the United States, 2038 02:00:09,703 --> 02:00:11,705 I felt the only thing I should do is resign. 2039 02:00:12,372 --> 02:00:13,919 I stand by what I said. 2040 02:00:15,125 --> 02:00:16,342 What was unsaid 2041 02:00:16,418 --> 02:00:20,048 was any consideration of holding Manning's supervisors accountable 2042 02:00:20,130 --> 02:00:23,475 for permitting the greatest security breach in American history. 2043 02:00:36,479 --> 02:00:40,154 Manning's commanding officer only received a minor demotion. 2044 02:00:41,151 --> 02:00:44,200 The Army brought 22 charges against Manning. 2045 02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:46,288 They included "aiding the enemy," 2046 02:00:46,364 --> 02:00:49,243 without naming just who the enemy was. 2047 02:00:49,325 --> 02:00:52,124 For these charges, Manning faced life in prison, 2048 02:00:52,203 --> 02:00:54,501 and a possible death sentence. 2049 02:00:58,334 --> 02:01:00,086 People who don't like the leak 2050 02:01:00,170 --> 02:01:03,049 try to say that it was damaging national security. 2051 02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:05,342 Have you ever seen any evidence 2052 02:01:05,467 --> 02:01:08,892 that American national security has been damaged in any way by this? 2053 02:01:10,346 --> 02:01:14,351 And if you look at what the whistle-blower is saying in that online chat, 2054 02:01:14,476 --> 02:01:15,648 and look at what he doesn't say. 2055 02:01:16,519 --> 02:01:18,692 He doesn't say, "I want money. " 2056 02:01:18,772 --> 02:01:21,116 He doesn't say, "I'm going to go to Russia or China. 2057 02:01:21,191 --> 02:01:23,364 "I'm going to go to al-Qaeda and give them this stuff." 2058 02:01:23,485 --> 02:01:24,532 It doesn't happen. 2059 02:01:24,611 --> 02:01:30,038 He says, "This is the material that the people of the world need to have." 2060 02:01:30,116 --> 02:01:32,539 And it was naive to dump the whole lot 2061 02:01:32,619 --> 02:01:35,042 without thinking ahead about how that was going to be handled. 2062 02:01:35,288 --> 02:01:37,962 But you don't have to lock this guy up for decades 2063 02:01:38,041 --> 02:01:40,214 and effectively put him through forms of torture. 2064 02:01:40,460 --> 02:01:43,555 That's a politically motivated act of vengeance 2065 02:01:43,630 --> 02:01:45,928 on somebody who hasn't damaged national security, 2066 02:01:46,007 --> 02:01:47,805 he's caused embarrassment. 2067 02:01:47,884 --> 02:01:48,976 Let's be clear. 2068 02:01:49,594 --> 02:01:55,601 This disclosure is not just an attack on America's foreign policy interests, 2069 02:01:56,142 --> 02:01:59,191 it is an attack on the international community. 2070 02:02:01,606 --> 02:02:03,700 The American government said, "You can't publish this. 2071 02:02:03,775 --> 02:02:08,201 "It's dangerous. It's going to damage world affairs, diplomacy, etc." 2072 02:02:08,279 --> 02:02:10,031 But then you publish it anyway, 2073 02:02:10,114 --> 02:02:11,536 and it's for the greater good, 2074 02:02:11,950 --> 02:02:14,123 telling people what they needed to know. 2075 02:02:15,829 --> 02:02:19,834 The question becomes, does it matter and what changes? 2076 02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:25,221 I think really we have to say that something has started, 2077 02:02:25,338 --> 02:02:28,012 and it's not going to be about WikiLeaks. 2078 02:02:28,091 --> 02:02:31,470 It's going to be about transparency and accountability, 2079 02:02:32,136 --> 02:02:34,059 and keeping power in check, 2080 02:02:34,138 --> 02:02:36,607 keeping governments responsible, 2081 02:02:36,683 --> 02:02:39,357 and who cares who does it as long as someone does. 2082 02:02:40,937 --> 02:02:44,032 Information by its very nature needs to flow. 2083 02:02:44,440 --> 02:02:48,991 In some regards, withholding information is trying to repeal the laws of gravity. 2084 02:02:49,195 --> 02:02:50,913 You may succeed for a short period of time, 2085 02:02:50,989 --> 02:02:53,993 but sooner or later it's going to break free. 2086 02:02:54,284 --> 02:02:56,537 Now you're talking just like a hacker. 2087 02:03:00,456 --> 02:03:01,582 I think Manning did the right thing 2088 02:03:01,666 --> 02:03:03,339 and what you did you have to live with! 2089 02:03:05,003 --> 02:03:06,095 I think you belong in Guantanamo! 2090 02:03:07,297 --> 02:03:08,799 Whoa! Okay. 2091 02:03:11,509 --> 02:03:15,764 I care more about Bradley than many of his supporters do. 2092 02:03:16,097 --> 02:03:19,476 We had a chance to be friends, however briefly, and... 2093 02:03:22,770 --> 02:03:26,775 He opened up in a lot of ways 2094 02:03:27,108 --> 02:03:29,952 about his life, his personal life, 2095 02:03:30,612 --> 02:03:31,955 and 2096 02:03:33,448 --> 02:03:37,169 he did it in a way that someone only would do 2097 02:03:37,327 --> 02:03:39,796 to someone they felt they could trust. 2098 02:03:41,122 --> 02:03:44,626 And I had to betray that trust 2099 02:03:44,792 --> 02:03:46,760 for the sake of 2100 02:03:50,131 --> 02:03:52,850 all of the people that he put in danger. 2101 02:03:54,761 --> 02:03:59,437 And I wish to hell that it had never happened. 2102 02:04:18,159 --> 02:04:20,457 It's going to be a question for the ages, 2103 02:04:20,536 --> 02:04:24,541 why Bradley Manning reached out to somebody he really didn't know 2104 02:04:25,333 --> 02:04:30,009 and entrusted him with such a life-altering secret. 2105 02:04:32,590 --> 02:04:36,845 The only thing I can come up with is that once he saw the results of the leak, 2106 02:04:36,928 --> 02:04:40,649 the need just to share that, just probably grew and grew. 2107 02:04:40,723 --> 02:04:41,849 He just needed to tell anybody, 2108 02:04:41,933 --> 02:04:44,903 and he thought Adrian was the right person to tell. 2109 02:04:45,061 --> 02:04:48,110 Whistle-blowing is a really isolating act. 2110 02:04:48,231 --> 02:04:51,781 It's a courageous and phenomenal thing to do, 2111 02:04:52,568 --> 02:04:54,912 but you are essentially doing something 2112 02:04:55,071 --> 02:04:58,826 that your colleagues and your friends 2113 02:04:58,908 --> 02:05:01,752 would not want you to do and not understand. 2114 02:05:01,911 --> 02:05:04,334 It alienates you further from them. 2115 02:05:04,414 --> 02:05:07,418 A source who needs to talk to someone 2116 02:05:07,583 --> 02:05:11,588 and explain what they've done and think through what they've done 2117 02:05:11,754 --> 02:05:13,631 needs someone safe to do that to. 2118 02:05:26,477 --> 02:05:29,481 In the logs, Manning says, he couldn't talk to WikiLeaks, 2119 02:05:29,605 --> 02:05:31,198 that's not how they work. 2120 02:05:31,274 --> 02:05:33,743 Does that protect whistle-blowers 2121 02:05:33,901 --> 02:05:35,619 or does it protect WikiLeaks? 2122 02:05:38,406 --> 02:05:40,625 In the end, everybody's just human. 2123 02:05:40,742 --> 02:05:43,291 If you're leaking material to someone, 2124 02:05:43,411 --> 02:05:46,711 if you're telling a reporter a good story, 2125 02:05:46,789 --> 02:05:48,541 something that really makes a difference, 2126 02:05:48,624 --> 02:05:52,800 then I think just from a human perspective, 2127 02:05:52,879 --> 02:05:56,304 it's really difficult not to get any credit for it. 2128 02:05:56,424 --> 02:05:59,143 Because no one can tap you on the shoulder and say, "Good job. 2129 02:05:59,260 --> 02:06:01,308 "Courageous thing you did." 2130 02:06:04,223 --> 02:06:07,443 And this is really the complicated part about it. 2131 02:06:07,518 --> 02:06:11,694 How do you make sure that your source doesn't compromise themselves? 2132 02:06:29,373 --> 02:06:33,128 In the chats, Manning sent a link to "Pale Blue Dot," 2133 02:06:33,878 --> 02:06:35,471 a famous photo of Earth he saw 2134 02:06:35,546 --> 02:06:39,050 while reading an essay by the astronomer Carl Sagan. 2135 02:06:40,384 --> 02:06:43,433 "That's home," said Sagan. "That's us. 2136 02:06:44,555 --> 02:06:48,401 "Every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there, 2137 02:06:48,476 --> 02:06:50,069 "on a mote of dust, 2138 02:06:50,144 --> 02:06:52,146 "suspended on a sunbeam. 2139 02:06:52,814 --> 02:06:55,943 "In our obscurity, in all this vastness, 2140 02:06:56,067 --> 02:06:58,866 "there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere 2141 02:06:59,028 --> 02:07:01,406 "to save us from ourselves. 2142 02:07:02,198 --> 02:07:03,871 "It is up to us." 2143 02:07:26,556 --> 02:07:28,900 After international outcry, 2144 02:07:29,016 --> 02:07:31,940 the US Army moved Bradley Manning out of solitary confinement. 2145 02:07:32,061 --> 02:07:35,531 In February 2013, Manning pled guilty to leaking documents to WikiLeaks. 2146 02:07:35,606 --> 02:07:38,906 The Army continued to prosecute him for "aiding the enemy." 2147 02:07:39,026 --> 02:07:42,701 Bradley Manning was held without trial for more than 3 years. 2148 02:07:43,865 --> 02:07:46,914 As of March 2013, Julian Assange remained confined to a small room 2149 02:07:47,034 --> 02:07:49,002 in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. 2150 02:07:49,078 --> 02:07:51,922 He promised to publish more documents 2151 02:07:52,039 --> 02:07:55,885 and announced his campaign to run for Senate in Australia.189383

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.