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{\an8}WE STEAL SECRETS- THE STORY OF WIKILEAKS, 2013
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Anti-nuclear
groups go to court to try to
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00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,843
block Thursday's
scheduled lift-off
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00:00:46,964 --> 00:00:50,719
of the shuttle Atlantis with its
payload of radioactive plutonium.
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00:00:50,801 --> 00:00:52,769
The shuttle
and legal challenges.
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00:00:52,844 --> 00:00:54,517
NASA lawyers must
go to court tomorrow
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to help the shuttle Atlantis
and its Galileo spacecraft
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escape from a unique
environmental challenge.
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The mission could be
stalled on the launch pad.
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At the center of the
controversy is Galileo,
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a plutonium-powered
space probe
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scheduled to be launched
from the shuttle's payload.
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The argument's being made that
in the event of an accident,
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cancer-causing plutonium
particles might be spread
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over a wide area of Florida.
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October 1989
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JOHN McMAHON: It was a Monday morning,
a few days before launching Galileo.
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My management grabbed me
as soon as I came in.
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And they said that there was a
worm that had been detected
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somewhere out
on the network.
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A worm is
a self-replicating program.
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It actually breaks into a computer
and jumps from system to system.
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At the time, they still
were very uncommon.
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We didn't know
what it would do.
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We knew it was malicious.
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If the worm got
into a machine,
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it would change the announcement
message and spelled out,
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in little lines
and little characters,
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W-A-N-K,
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WANK, Worms Against
Nuclear Killers.
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And below that, "You talk
of times of peace for all,
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"and then prepare for war."
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Oh, my God,
what the hell is this?
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Most people didn't know
what the word "WANK" meant.
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The worm made a panic.
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You would be logged into your
machine and you'd get a message,
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"Someone is watching you...
Vote anarchist!"
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And suddenly they'd see,
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"Deleted file-1, deleted
file-2, deleted file-3, "
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and just keep going
and going and going.
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And it would change the passwords,
so you couldn't get in to stop it.
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It scared the hell out
of a lot of people.
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They were afraid that WANK
would cause a launch failure,
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where this nuclear
battery was suddenly
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flying away from
an exploding spacecraft.
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All systems are go.
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Eleven, ten, nine...
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McMAHON: How in the name of
hell are we going to stop it?
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And how far has
it gone already?
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We have a
go for main engine start.
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Six, five, four,
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three, two, one.
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We have ignition
and lift-off of Atlantis,
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and the Galileo spacecraft
bound for Jupiter!
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The shuttle
launched without incident.
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But the WANK worm
continued to spread,
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affecting over 300, 000 computer
terminals around the world.
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Its purpose, as a warning, weapon, or
political prank, was never discovered.
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Investigators traced the origins
of the WANK worm to Australia.
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National police suspected
a small group of hackers
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in the city of Melbourne,
and then the trail went cold.
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But a key clue turned out
to be in the message itself.
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There was a lyric from the
Australian band, Midnight Oil,
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a favorite of the man
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who would become the country's
most infamous hacker.
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Yeah.
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There's never been
anything quite like it.
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A mountain of secrets dumped into
the public domain by a website...
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Julian Assange.
Is he a hero to freedom
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or is he a terrorist
who should be prosecuted?
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He's
an active enemy combatant
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who's engaged in information warfare
against the United States...
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Was it not once
considered patriotic
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to stand up to our government
when it's wrong?
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Should the United States
do something to stop Mr. Assange?
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I think Assange
should be assassinated, actually...
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No, he's a hero...
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What he did
was extremely devastating...
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This guy's
going to strike again.
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Free Julian Assange!
Free Julian Assange!
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What drives you?
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Well, I like being creative.
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I mean, I've been an inventor,
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designing systems and
processes for a long time.
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I also like
defending victims.
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And I'm a combative person,
so I like crushing bastards.
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And so this sort of profession
combines all those three things.
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So it is personally
deeply satisfying to me.
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But is crushing bastards,
in its own right, a just cause?
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Depends on the bastard.
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I see the story entirely
as one man against the world.
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One man against the world.
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Julian is this very
radical visionary.
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Julian was onto something
really extraordinary.
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He's an extremely clever, brave,
dedicated, hard-working guy
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with a brilliant idea
that he managed to execute.
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Julian Assange
was obsessed with secrets,
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keeping his own and unlocking those
of governments and corporations.
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The Internet is not
a good place for secrets.
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Cyberspace is like
a galaxy of passageways,
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constantly moving
streams of data.
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With a simple computer,
anyone can enter and explore.
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That's what Julian Assange
liked to do, explore.
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He liked to use trap doors to enter
where he wasn't supposed to go,
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to find secrets
and expose them.
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He built a machine for leaking
secrets and called it "WikiLeaks."
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The website boasted
an electronic drop box
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that could receive
secrets sent by people
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who didn't want to
reveal who they were.
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Once WikiLeaks
had the secrets,
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it would publish them across
servers, domain names, and networks
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so numerous that the information
could never be taken down.
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So this is what you'll see if you go
to the front page of the website-
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This is WikiLeaks, we help
you get the truth out.
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We want to enable information
to go out to the public
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that has the greatest
chance of achieving
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positive political reform
in the world.
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To get things to the public
you need to protect sources
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who want to disclose,
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and you also need to protect your ability
to publish in the face of attack.
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His thinking is,
how can we destroy corruption?
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It's the whistle-blower.
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Julian Assange is neither a right-wing
libertarian nor a standard leftist.
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00:08:04,192 --> 00:08:06,866
I think he's
a humanitarian anarchist.
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00:08:06,945 --> 00:08:09,664
A kind of John Lennon-like
revolutionary,
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00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:11,036
dreaming of a better world.
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00:08:11,282 --> 00:08:16,630
If we are to produce a more civilized
society, a more just society,
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it has to be based
upon the truth...
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00:08:19,958 --> 00:08:21,960
When
I heard Julian speak,
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I was struck by
his vaulting idealism
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and forthrightness
about what he believed in.
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Totally uncompromising
about freedom of speech.
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I agreed almost entirely
with everything he said,
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and I'd never experienced
that before.
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So I thought he was amazing.
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Every week
we achieve major victories
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in bringing the unjust to
account and helping the just.
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00:09:00,165 --> 00:09:02,509
Before WikiLeaks
was front page news,
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00:09:02,667 --> 00:09:04,669
there were some
smaller successes.
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00:09:05,003 --> 00:09:08,382
The website published evidence
of a tax-evading Swiss bank,
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00:09:08,673 --> 00:09:10,721
government corruption
and murder in Kenya,
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00:09:11,342 --> 00:09:14,642
and a secret company report on
illegal toxic waste dumping.
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00:09:17,265 --> 00:09:20,735
One early leak was from the
National Security Agency.
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00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:23,438
Frantic text messages
from desperate workers
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00:09:23,521 --> 00:09:26,320
trying to save lives
on 9/11.
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00:09:31,738 --> 00:09:35,493
9/11 turned out to be a watershed
moment for the world of secrets,
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both for the leakers
and the secret keepers.
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00:09:44,751 --> 00:09:49,006
After 9/11 we were accused of not
being willing to share information
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rapidly and facilely enough,
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and we've pushed that
very far forward.
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00:09:54,177 --> 00:09:57,056
Michael Hayden
is an expert on secrets.
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He's been the director of the
National Security Agency and the CIA.
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00:10:01,059 --> 00:10:02,561
In terms
of our focus,
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the default option, in a practical
sense, has been to sharing
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00:10:06,356 --> 00:10:10,907
rather than caging information and
making it more difficult to flow.
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00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:17,125
In the years after 9/11,
facing enemies it didn't understand,
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the U.S. government started
sharing more information
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00:10:20,286 --> 00:10:21,879
between different agencies.
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00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:27,132
At the same time, the U.S. also started
to keep more secrets from its citizens.
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00:10:27,418 --> 00:10:28,886
In data centers that sprang
up all over the country,
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NSA/CSS Cryptologic Center
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00:10:31,172 --> 00:10:32,173
the U.S. launched
a massive expansion
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00:10:32,257 --> 00:10:34,510
of its operations
to gather secrets.
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00:10:34,843 --> 00:10:37,346
The amount of classified documents per
year increased from eight million
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00:10:37,428 --> 00:10:38,645
Office of the Director of
National Intelligence
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00:10:38,721 --> 00:10:40,223
to 76 million.
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00:10:40,390 --> 00:10:42,142
The number of people with access
to classified information
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00:10:42,225 --> 00:10:43,727
NSA National Business Park
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soared to more
than four million.
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00:10:45,770 --> 00:10:48,899
And the government began to
intercept phone calls and emails
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at a rate of
60, 000 per second.
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00:10:52,402 --> 00:10:55,246
Nobody knows how
much money is involved,
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00:10:55,572 --> 00:10:56,789
it's a secret.
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00:10:56,906 --> 00:10:59,284
Not even Congress
knows the entire budget.
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00:11:00,827 --> 00:11:05,674
The classification system can be a
very effective national security tool
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when it's used as intended,
when it's used with precision.
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00:11:10,003 --> 00:11:11,425
During
the Bush Administration,
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00:11:11,546 --> 00:11:14,015
Bill Leonard was
the classification czar,
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the man charged with overseeing
what information should be secret.
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00:11:18,261 --> 00:11:21,515
The whole information environment
has radically changed.
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Just like we produce
more information
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00:11:23,057 --> 00:11:25,526
than we ever produced
in the history of mankind,
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00:11:25,602 --> 00:11:29,357
we produce more secrets than we've ever
produced in the history of mankind,
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00:11:29,439 --> 00:11:31,988
and yet we never
fundamentally reassessed
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00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:35,324
our ability to
control secrets.
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00:11:36,654 --> 00:11:39,328
In this environment
of expanding secrecy,
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00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:42,164
Assange went fishing
for secrets to publish.
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00:11:42,452 --> 00:11:46,173
To bait whistle-blowers, he published
a list of the most wanted leaks.
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00:11:48,041 --> 00:11:50,669
Those of us who have been
in the business a long time
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00:11:50,835 --> 00:11:52,553
knew that this day
would come,
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00:11:52,795 --> 00:11:56,800
knew that because we'd removed all
the watertight doors on the ship,
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00:11:56,966 --> 00:12:00,345
once it started taking on water,
it would really be in trouble.
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00:13:01,781 --> 00:13:04,284
In Iceland,
winter is never easy,
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00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:07,249
but this year much
of the pain is manmade.
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00:13:08,621 --> 00:13:11,545
Last October, all three of
Iceland's banks failed.
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00:13:11,874 --> 00:13:16,095
Normally stoic and proper
Icelanders have started protesting.
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00:13:17,922 --> 00:13:22,268
In July 2009, WikiLeaks
fueled a growing popular rage
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00:13:22,427 --> 00:13:25,727
when it published a confidential
internal memo from Kaupthing,
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00:13:25,888 --> 00:13:28,607
the largest failed
bank in the country.
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00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:31,729
WikiLeaks had got hold
of the Kaupthing loan book,
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00:13:31,894 --> 00:13:34,989
which showed what was going on in
a lot of those Icelandic banks.
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00:13:35,064 --> 00:13:38,284
They had credit ratings
which were completely at odds
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00:13:38,443 --> 00:13:40,616
with their actual
credit worthiness.
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00:13:40,778 --> 00:13:42,576
It was all insiders,
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00:13:42,739 --> 00:13:45,618
they took out billions
of dollars out of this bank
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00:13:45,783 --> 00:13:49,629
and bankrupted the thing shortly
before it went bankrupt anyways.
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00:13:50,747 --> 00:13:53,626
A German IT technician,
Daniel Domscheit-Berg,
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00:13:53,916 --> 00:13:56,795
became the second full-time
member of WikiLeaks.
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00:13:57,420 --> 00:14:02,426
We met online first, and
then we met personally in December 2007
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00:14:02,633 --> 00:14:05,807
at the Chaos Communication
Congress in Berlin.
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00:14:05,970 --> 00:14:09,816
He was not the stereotypical
hacker you would expect,
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00:14:09,974 --> 00:14:11,066
looked completely
differently,
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00:14:11,142 --> 00:14:14,692
he was interested in
completely different topics.
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00:14:15,938 --> 00:14:19,943
For Daniel and Julian, the Kaupthing
leak was their biggest success to date.
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00:14:20,109 --> 00:14:23,283
The loan book came
out and took the country by storm.
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00:14:23,529 --> 00:14:27,454
RUV, the national broadcaster, was
going to do a big segment on it.
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00:14:27,784 --> 00:14:30,207
And they got slapped
with an injunction.
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00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:33,127
This evening, we had intended
on releasing a full report
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00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:35,629
regarding the enormous credit
facilities made available by Kaupthing
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00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:37,969
to the various companies of its shareholders.
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00:14:38,044 --> 00:14:39,637
However, we are prevented from
doing so this evening...
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00:14:39,754 --> 00:14:41,802
It was
the first time in our history
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00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:45,806
that a gag order was placed on the
state TV not to produce that news
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00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:47,887
just before they were
supposed to produce it.
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00:14:48,012 --> 00:14:50,982
So instead of doing nothing they
decided to put the website up.
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00:14:53,309 --> 00:14:55,107
Up pops WikiLeaks- org
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00:14:55,186 --> 00:14:57,985
with this Kaupthing
loan book front and center,
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00:14:58,314 --> 00:15:00,737
and everybody goes online
and checks it out.
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00:15:01,526 --> 00:15:05,531
The guys at WikiLeaks definitely get
massive props for that.
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00:15:08,116 --> 00:15:11,416
Later that year, a group of
young cyber-activists from Iceland
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00:15:11,577 --> 00:15:14,501
invited representatives
of the WikiLeaks organization
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00:15:14,705 --> 00:15:17,049
to come speak at
a conference in Reykjavik.
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00:15:17,208 --> 00:15:19,210
Iceland and
WikiLeaks really fit.
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00:15:19,419 --> 00:15:22,719
This is something we really need in
our society, the media failed us.
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00:15:22,922 --> 00:15:24,924
So I was excited
to meet them.
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00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:28,644
Up until the day
before the conference,
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00:15:28,803 --> 00:15:30,055
we didn't know
who was going to come.
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00:15:30,304 --> 00:15:33,399
It could be a massive organization
or it could be a tiny organization.
240
00:15:33,558 --> 00:15:35,105
Hello? Um...
241
00:15:35,518 --> 00:15:36,815
Does that work? Okay.
242
00:15:37,145 --> 00:15:39,568
In the beginning
we had no funding at all,
243
00:15:39,772 --> 00:15:44,027
we were not set up with
manpower nor organizationally,
244
00:15:44,193 --> 00:15:45,866
so there was
a lot to improvise.
245
00:15:46,195 --> 00:15:48,869
WikiLeaks, we haven't mentioned
that what we are doing right now
246
00:15:49,031 --> 00:15:50,248
is still a proof of concept.
247
00:15:50,408 --> 00:15:53,912
So in technical terms, we are in
a beta stage, so it's just...
248
00:15:54,871 --> 00:15:56,589
We're not in a beta stage.
Well...
249
00:15:57,915 --> 00:16:01,510
We're not in a beta stage as far as...
We're in a Gmail beta stage.
250
00:16:03,045 --> 00:16:07,551
So we 're not in a beta stage in terms
of our ability to protect people.
251
00:16:07,717 --> 00:16:09,469
In terms of...
252
00:16:09,552 --> 00:16:10,724
Um...
253
00:16:12,555 --> 00:16:14,182
You could let me
finish my sentence.
254
00:16:14,265 --> 00:16:15,357
Okay.
255
00:16:15,433 --> 00:16:17,777
It was a really awkward
experience in some way
256
00:16:17,935 --> 00:16:21,565
because we were just
so famous over there.
257
00:16:21,898 --> 00:16:24,071
You work
for WikiLeaks.
258
00:16:24,233 --> 00:16:26,076
WikiLeaks is now
very famous in Iceland
259
00:16:26,235 --> 00:16:29,785
because of the big
Kaupthing leak.
260
00:16:30,114 --> 00:16:32,913
We got this letter
from the Kaupthing lawyers,
261
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:37,585
telling us that under
Icelandic banking secrecy law
262
00:16:37,747 --> 00:16:39,590
we deserved one year
in prison.
263
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:41,592
So we thought we'd
come to Iceland...
264
00:16:41,834 --> 00:16:42,926
And see for ourselves.
265
00:16:43,044 --> 00:16:44,762
...and see for ourselves.
266
00:16:49,717 --> 00:16:51,344
The banksters need to be
put on public trial
267
00:16:51,427 --> 00:16:53,225
and given the justice
they deserve.
268
00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:56,023
More power to you, Iceland!
269
00:16:57,183 --> 00:16:59,686
Julian teamed up
with Birgitta Jonsdottir,
270
00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:01,399
a poet turned politician,
271
00:17:01,562 --> 00:17:05,612
to hatch a plan to turn Iceland into
a haven for freedom of information.
272
00:17:06,108 --> 00:17:09,453
But Julian was also preoccupied
with a new source,
273
00:17:09,779 --> 00:17:13,374
one with access to classified
U.S. government materials,
274
00:17:13,616 --> 00:17:15,368
and a willingness
to leak them.
275
00:17:24,043 --> 00:17:25,090
See all those people
standing down there...
276
00:17:25,169 --> 00:17:27,797
There's more that keep walking
by and one of them has a weapon.
277
00:17:35,054 --> 00:17:37,056
We have five to six
individuals with AK-47s.
278
00:17:37,306 --> 00:17:39,024
Request permission to engage.
279
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:43,480
It was an on board video of an
Apache helicopter gunship on patrol in Iraq.
280
00:17:45,022 --> 00:17:46,774
I can't get 'em now because
they're behind that building.
281
00:17:46,857 --> 00:17:49,861
A half-mile above the ground, it
was invisible to the people down below.
282
00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:52,196
That's a weapon.
283
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,497
He's got an RPG.
284
00:17:53,573 --> 00:17:54,825
We got a guy with an RPG.
285
00:17:54,907 --> 00:17:55,954
I'm gonna fire.
286
00:17:56,617 --> 00:17:58,164
You are free to engage, over.
287
00:17:59,370 --> 00:18:00,417
Light 'em all up.
288
00:18:03,624 --> 00:18:05,092
Keep shooting.
289
00:18:06,711 --> 00:18:07,758
Keep shooting.
290
00:18:09,338 --> 00:18:10,840
Keep shooting.
291
00:18:13,843 --> 00:18:15,060
Oh yeah, look at those
dead bastards.
292
00:18:15,261 --> 00:18:17,684
Two of the men killed
worked for the Reuters news agency.
293
00:18:18,889 --> 00:18:19,936
Nice.
294
00:18:20,016 --> 00:18:22,189
What had looked
like a weapon from the sky,
295
00:18:22,351 --> 00:18:24,445
turned out to be
the long lens of a camera.
296
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:25,567
Bushmaster.
297
00:18:25,688 --> 00:18:28,407
We have a van that's approaching
and picking up the bodies.
298
00:18:29,609 --> 00:18:30,701
Yeah, we're trying to get
permission to engage.
299
00:18:30,776 --> 00:18:31,823
This is Bushmaster-Seven.
300
00:18:31,902 --> 00:18:32,949
Roger, engage!
301
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:34,747
One-Eight.
Engage. Clear.
302
00:18:35,197 --> 00:18:36,540
Come on.
303
00:18:39,035 --> 00:18:40,332
Clear.
304
00:18:42,246 --> 00:18:43,338
Clear.
305
00:18:43,414 --> 00:18:45,007
We're engaging...
306
00:18:45,833 --> 00:18:46,834
Oh, yeah, look at that.
307
00:18:46,917 --> 00:18:48,009
Right through
the windshield!
308
00:18:49,253 --> 00:18:51,051
Inside the van
were two children,
309
00:18:51,255 --> 00:18:53,053
who were wounded in
the hail of cannon fire.
310
00:18:54,550 --> 00:18:55,972
It's their fault for bringing
their kids to a battle.
311
00:18:56,052 --> 00:18:57,099
That's right.
312
00:19:13,819 --> 00:19:17,915
In March 2010, Assange
and a team of Icelandic activists
313
00:19:18,074 --> 00:19:20,042
holed up in a rented
house in Reykjavik
314
00:19:20,242 --> 00:19:22,586
to edit and prepare
the video for publication.
315
00:19:26,582 --> 00:19:28,755
We did most
of our work here.
316
00:19:29,168 --> 00:19:31,591
This was
the operational table.
317
00:19:37,259 --> 00:19:41,981
McCARTHY: It was chaotic and hectic and
all sorts of varyingly frayed nerves.
318
00:19:42,556 --> 00:19:45,150
Eventually I went out and
bought a bunch of Post-its
319
00:19:45,309 --> 00:19:49,530
and kind of tried to figure
out what it was we needed to do.
320
00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:55,195
My horrific task was to go
through the entire movie
321
00:19:55,403 --> 00:19:57,747
and pull out the stills
to put on the website.
322
00:19:57,947 --> 00:20:00,996
And at the same time I was
learning who these people were
323
00:20:01,158 --> 00:20:04,708
that I could see their flesh
being torn off their bodies.
324
00:20:06,539 --> 00:20:07,631
Photographs taken by US soldier
325
00:20:07,707 --> 00:20:09,209
The Army
claimed it was engaged in
326
00:20:09,291 --> 00:20:12,295
"combat operations
against a hostile force."
327
00:20:12,545 --> 00:20:15,048
But it also began
a criminal investigation.
328
00:20:15,297 --> 00:20:17,720
It turned out
that the driver of the van
329
00:20:17,925 --> 00:20:20,724
had been a father taking
his children to school.
330
00:20:21,137 --> 00:20:22,980
I think I just
drove over a body.
331
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:24,648
- Really?
- Yeah.
332
00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:33,149
The curtains
were drawn.
333
00:20:34,567 --> 00:20:39,414
But I never had any sense that we
were being watched, not physically.
334
00:20:40,531 --> 00:20:42,374
But we joked a lot about it.
335
00:20:42,533 --> 00:20:45,207
We were becoming
super paranoid.
336
00:20:45,870 --> 00:20:47,247
It wasn't really
cloak-and-dagger stuff,
337
00:20:47,496 --> 00:20:50,170
it was just yet
another cool project.
338
00:20:50,374 --> 00:20:53,719
Everybody thinks that we were sort
of huddled over the computers
339
00:20:53,878 --> 00:20:55,880
and it was all very serious.
340
00:20:56,505 --> 00:20:58,724
We actually had
an incredible time.
341
00:20:58,883 --> 00:21:01,887
The second last night
we all went out
342
00:21:02,052 --> 00:21:05,602
and we were all wearing the same
silver snowsuits.
343
00:21:06,348 --> 00:21:09,192
WikiLeaks!
344
00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:11,483
Lava-leaks!
345
00:21:15,149 --> 00:21:17,368
It was
an incredibly intimate time,
346
00:21:17,526 --> 00:21:19,574
because we were all working closely,
we were working on something
347
00:21:19,737 --> 00:21:23,082
that we knew that could get us
all in very serious trouble.
348
00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:27,169
And we were all willing
to take that consequence.
349
00:21:30,873 --> 00:21:33,171
So my name
is Julian Assange.
350
00:21:33,334 --> 00:21:35,336
I am the editor of WikiLeaks.
351
00:21:35,878 --> 00:21:37,130
Could you spell your name?
352
00:21:37,213 --> 00:21:38,886
Julian, with an A.
353
00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:41,217
Assange.
354
00:21:41,509 --> 00:21:44,012
What's clear about him
is he became a public figure
355
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:45,813
extraordinarily quickly.
356
00:21:46,514 --> 00:21:49,063
It was really April 2010
357
00:21:49,225 --> 00:21:51,478
where he went from
relative obscurity
358
00:21:51,644 --> 00:21:53,817
into an absolutely
central world figure.
359
00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:56,653
And he did it deliberately.
He knew what he was doing.
360
00:21:56,857 --> 00:22:00,907
He decides to take on the
American state, in public.
361
00:22:02,238 --> 00:22:05,959
The team posted the unedited
video on the WikiLeaks website.
362
00:22:06,033 --> 00:22:07,660
They also posted
a shorter version
363
00:22:07,827 --> 00:22:10,046
edited for maximum impact.
364
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,589
Julian titled it
"Collateral Murder. "
365
00:22:13,582 --> 00:22:17,212
And no surprise, it's getting
reaction in Washington.
366
00:22:17,336 --> 00:22:21,386
Our military will take
every precaution necessary
367
00:22:21,465 --> 00:22:25,015
to ensure the safety
and security of civilians.
368
00:22:25,219 --> 00:22:29,224
The behavior of the pilots is
like they are playing a computer game.
369
00:22:29,974 --> 00:22:31,942
Their desire
was simply to kill.
370
00:22:32,309 --> 00:22:35,609
The Pentagon says that it sees no
reason to investigate this any further.
371
00:22:35,771 --> 00:22:38,274
Its own inquiry found that
the journalists' cameras
372
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,363
were mistaken for weapons.
373
00:22:40,526 --> 00:22:43,120
But the rules of engagement
were followed.
374
00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:46,579
If those killings were lawful
under the rules of engagement,
375
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:49,368
then the rules of
engagement are wrong.
376
00:22:49,869 --> 00:22:51,371
Deeply wrong.
377
00:22:52,288 --> 00:22:53,505
You've
got this scene.
378
00:22:53,581 --> 00:22:56,050
Some may be ethically
troubled by the scene.
379
00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:57,843
Frankly, I'm not.
380
00:22:58,002 --> 00:23:00,004
But I can understand someone
who's troubled by that
381
00:23:00,170 --> 00:23:03,720
and someone who wants the
American people to know that,
382
00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:05,681
because the American
people need to know
383
00:23:05,843 --> 00:23:09,143
what it is their government is doing for them.
I actually share that view.
384
00:23:09,221 --> 00:23:11,724
When I was director of CIA, there
was some stuff we were doing
385
00:23:11,849 --> 00:23:14,728
I wanted all 300 million
Americans to know.
386
00:23:15,728 --> 00:23:17,480
But I never
figured out a way
387
00:23:17,688 --> 00:23:20,407
without informing a whole
bunch of other people
388
00:23:20,566 --> 00:23:22,568
who didn't have a right
to that information,
389
00:23:22,818 --> 00:23:25,321
and who may actually
use that image or that fact
390
00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:29,204
or that data or that message
to harm my countrymen.
391
00:23:30,701 --> 00:23:32,920
From a national
security point of view,
392
00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:37,549
there was absolutely no justification
for withholding that videotape.
393
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,379
Number one, gunship video
is like trading carols
394
00:23:41,629 --> 00:23:44,473
amongst soldiers in
Iraq and Afghanistan.
395
00:23:44,632 --> 00:23:46,851
It's freely exchanged
back and forth.
396
00:24:12,534 --> 00:24:14,878
What's even
more disturbing is that
397
00:24:14,995 --> 00:24:18,124
it was one in
a series of efforts
398
00:24:18,207 --> 00:24:23,213
to withhold images
of facts that were known.
399
00:24:24,672 --> 00:24:27,175
Reuters knew
its employees had been killed.
400
00:24:27,341 --> 00:24:31,016
The news agency requested the
video, but the Army refused,
401
00:24:31,178 --> 00:24:33,180
claiming the video
was classified.
402
00:24:33,597 --> 00:24:38,774
The fact that innocent people were
killed in that helicopter attack,
403
00:24:38,936 --> 00:24:41,610
that was a known fact
that was not classified.
404
00:24:42,147 --> 00:24:43,319
A record
of the incident
405
00:24:43,482 --> 00:24:46,486
and a word-for-word transcript
of the pilots' conversation
406
00:24:46,694 --> 00:24:50,244
had already been published in a
book called The Good Soldiers
407
00:24:50,447 --> 00:24:51,994
by a writer embedded
with the Army.
408
00:24:52,783 --> 00:24:56,833
The Army later confirmed that the
information was not classified.
409
00:24:56,912 --> 00:24:58,630
Yet the Army would
prosecute the man
410
00:24:58,789 --> 00:25:00,791
who leaked the video
to WikiLeaks.
411
00:25:01,542 --> 00:25:03,965
What kind of games
was the Army playing?
412
00:25:04,378 --> 00:25:07,052
Why was a transcript less
secret than a moving image?
413
00:25:07,256 --> 00:25:09,008
We won't shoot anymore.
414
00:25:09,591 --> 00:25:13,141
Clearly the government
recognizes the power of images.
415
00:25:14,096 --> 00:25:18,693
But the ultimate power of image
is it helps people understand
416
00:25:18,851 --> 00:25:21,274
what it is this fact
is that we all know.
417
00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:24,774
Flag-draped coffins
help us understand
418
00:25:24,982 --> 00:25:28,031
the consequences of sending
our children off to war.
419
00:25:28,610 --> 00:25:32,615
Pictures of detainee
abuse in Abu Ghraib
420
00:25:32,823 --> 00:25:36,373
help us understand exactly
what was taking place.
421
00:25:37,828 --> 00:25:42,334
Video of that unfortunate occurrence
where innocent people were killed,
422
00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:48,389
helps us understand that this is
an inevitable consequence of war.
423
00:25:57,973 --> 00:25:59,020
How was the video obtained?
424
00:26:00,059 --> 00:26:03,859
We can't discuss
our sourcing of the video.
425
00:26:32,841 --> 00:26:36,186
Adrian Lamo was known
as "the homeless hacker,"
426
00:26:36,345 --> 00:26:38,518
a couch-surfing
computer infiltrator
427
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,524
who had been convicted of hacking
into The New York Times.
428
00:26:42,935 --> 00:26:47,156
In 2010, not long after the release
of the Collateral Murder video,
429
00:26:47,314 --> 00:26:50,989
Lamo used Twitter to urge his
followers to donate to WikiLeaks.
430
00:26:51,443 --> 00:26:55,118
Only one day later he was contacted
by someone with the screen name
431
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,157
"bradass87."
432
00:27:01,495 --> 00:27:05,045
Frankly, I just didn't find what he
had to say all that interesting at first,
433
00:27:05,207 --> 00:27:10,805
until he started making
references to spilling secrets.
434
00:27:52,087 --> 00:27:57,093
At that point, I knew that
this wasn't some kind of game.
435
00:27:57,426 --> 00:28:01,101
It was for real and that I was going to
have to make some very hard choices.
436
00:28:02,472 --> 00:28:07,569
In Star Trek, every prospective
commanding officer
437
00:28:07,728 --> 00:28:12,234
is expected to pass a test
called the "Kobayashi Maru."
438
00:28:12,816 --> 00:28:14,910
Starship Enterprise
on training mission
439
00:28:14,985 --> 00:28:16,237
to Gamma Hydra.
440
00:28:16,403 --> 00:28:19,122
Alert. Klingon
torpedoes activated. Alert.
441
00:28:19,198 --> 00:28:20,541
Evasive action!
442
00:28:23,327 --> 00:28:24,374
Ah!
443
00:28:27,998 --> 00:28:30,126
The test
cannot be passed.
444
00:28:30,292 --> 00:28:34,297
It is there to see how they
deal with a no-win situation.
445
00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:37,390
A no-win situation's a possibility
every commander may face.
446
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:39,051
Has that never
occurred to you?
447
00:28:39,218 --> 00:28:40,970
No, sir, it has not.
448
00:28:41,887 --> 00:28:45,892
In this case,
it was a no-win situation,
449
00:28:46,433 --> 00:28:51,610
deciding what you're going to
do when no matter what you do,
450
00:28:51,772 --> 00:28:54,446
you're going to screw
somebody over.
451
00:28:55,484 --> 00:28:58,988
Unsure what to do,
Adrian contacted Tim Webster,
452
00:28:59,238 --> 00:29:02,333
a friend and former Army
counterintelligence agent
453
00:29:02,491 --> 00:29:03,834
Adrian
called me and said,
454
00:29:03,992 --> 00:29:06,415
"Hey, Tim, what would you do
if somebody had approached you
455
00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:08,338
"and said, 'Hey,
I'm leaking secrets. "'
456
00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:10,457
I thought it was
a pretty stupid question,
457
00:29:10,540 --> 00:29:14,795
because of course Adrian knows exactly
what I would have done in that situation.
458
00:29:15,212 --> 00:29:16,304
What
would you have done?
459
00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:18,599
Well, of course,
turned them in.
460
00:29:19,216 --> 00:29:22,186
There's no... There's nothing else
you can do in that situation.
461
00:29:23,512 --> 00:29:26,356
But Adrian was on the
fence about it ethically.
462
00:29:27,349 --> 00:29:30,694
On one hand, here was this kid leaking
all this classified information,
463
00:29:30,894 --> 00:29:32,896
could potentially cost lives.
464
00:29:33,355 --> 00:29:36,905
On the other hand, here was this
kid who had reached out to Adrian
465
00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:40,454
in confidence
and trusted him.
466
00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:43,623
And Adrian took
that pretty seriously.
467
00:29:45,367 --> 00:29:47,586
He indicated he didn't know
who this person was,
468
00:29:47,744 --> 00:29:49,291
they were just a screen name.
469
00:29:49,454 --> 00:29:51,798
So, very quickly, of course,
the first thing that
470
00:29:51,999 --> 00:29:54,593
anybody would be interested
in is, who is this guy?
471
00:31:49,699 --> 00:31:53,249
I first met Bradley
Manning at a New Year's Eve party.
472
00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:56,965
It was a 1930s theme party.
473
00:31:57,249 --> 00:31:59,343
I was the Prince of Wales.
474
00:31:59,543 --> 00:32:03,468
And Brad showed up
without any kind of
475
00:32:03,547 --> 00:32:06,972
costume or persona.
476
00:32:07,092 --> 00:32:09,720
I looked at him
and he was small
477
00:32:09,886 --> 00:32:13,811
and had this kind of ingénue
expression on his face.
478
00:32:14,141 --> 00:32:17,816
This bright blond hair. And so
I said, "Oh, Jean Harlow. "
479
00:32:23,108 --> 00:32:25,952
Wrote that on a name tag,
slapped it on his chest,
480
00:32:26,153 --> 00:32:28,201
then we went on with
the rest of the evening.
481
00:32:31,199 --> 00:32:32,746
When I met him at the party,
482
00:32:32,951 --> 00:32:36,046
he made no mention to me
that he was in the Army.
483
00:32:36,413 --> 00:32:37,790
This came as a surprise to me.
484
00:32:44,629 --> 00:32:46,472
To get
government money for college,
485
00:32:46,715 --> 00:32:48,968
Bradley Manning
enlisted in the Army.
486
00:32:49,134 --> 00:32:51,978
In 2007, Manning
began basic training.
487
00:32:52,262 --> 00:32:53,809
He was 19 years old.
488
00:32:54,973 --> 00:32:58,352
Just weeks after he started, he
was sent to a discharge unit
489
00:32:58,685 --> 00:33:01,108
to determine if he
should stay in the Army.
490
00:33:01,605 --> 00:33:05,280
My locker was next to his
and that's when I met him.
491
00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:10,577
Nobody puts their sister's picture
with him posing next to his sister.
492
00:33:10,947 --> 00:33:14,121
It was kind of weird,
but... Oh, well.
493
00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:19,711
But we knew right away he was gay.
It was so obvious. But, so...
494
00:33:21,249 --> 00:33:23,126
Not that I have
a problem with it.
495
00:33:24,085 --> 00:33:27,259
He was small, a little bit
effeminate and that made him
496
00:33:27,422 --> 00:33:30,676
public enemy number one for drill
sergeants to beat the macho into him.
497
00:33:31,426 --> 00:33:34,396
We're talking professional
Army, 30-40-year-old people
498
00:33:34,596 --> 00:33:37,270
that would pick on him
just to torment him.
499
00:33:38,058 --> 00:33:40,402
And what happened?
Did he get discharged?
500
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,235
No, the funny thing is, he was the
least Army material of anybody there.
501
00:33:44,439 --> 00:33:47,113
And they all got
discharged and he didn't.
502
00:33:48,902 --> 00:33:50,449
Instead
of discharging Manning,
503
00:33:50,612 --> 00:33:54,207
the Army decided to make him
an intelligence analyst.
504
00:33:54,533 --> 00:33:55,625
There's
a lot of components
505
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:56,747
that go with Intel analyst.
506
00:33:56,826 --> 00:33:58,328
US Army Intelligence
Recruitment Video
507
00:33:58,411 --> 00:34:00,584
I'm in charge of the security,
document security,
508
00:34:00,664 --> 00:34:03,338
physical security, personal
security, like people's clearances.
509
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:05,252
Does it make me feel like
James Bond a little bit?
510
00:34:05,377 --> 00:34:06,424
Yeah, to some degree.
511
00:34:06,628 --> 00:34:08,676
What would I like the public
to know about the Army'?
512
00:34:09,172 --> 00:34:11,174
We love what we do.
513
00:34:13,718 --> 00:34:15,937
He was
definitely what society
514
00:34:16,012 --> 00:34:18,390
would label as
a computer nerd.
515
00:34:19,015 --> 00:34:23,236
He was constantly up all night
building specific computer programs.
516
00:34:23,395 --> 00:34:25,614
So he was
unusually adept at computers?
517
00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:30,573
He's probably the first person
in the military that I had met
518
00:34:30,652 --> 00:34:36,330
that is as talented as
he was with computers.
519
00:34:37,450 --> 00:34:41,205
But I had to pull him aside several
times for his lack of sleep.
520
00:34:41,705 --> 00:34:45,050
He was desperately
addicted to soda.
521
00:34:45,792 --> 00:34:49,672
He drank approximately a liter
to two liters every night.
522
00:34:51,047 --> 00:34:54,642
So he literally did
not sleep, ever.
523
00:34:56,678 --> 00:34:58,772
One time he was
late for a formation
524
00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:02,730
and he had a very public
display, physically.
525
00:35:03,602 --> 00:35:05,946
He was jumping up and down,
flailing his arms,
526
00:35:06,187 --> 00:35:08,030
screaming at the top
of his lungs.
527
00:35:08,189 --> 00:35:11,284
And to me, I had never
seen a soldier do that before.
528
00:35:11,443 --> 00:35:13,116
It had to be something else.
529
00:35:13,445 --> 00:35:14,867
A seizure or
something like that
530
00:35:15,071 --> 00:35:17,950
because it was very
radical body movement.
531
00:35:19,075 --> 00:35:22,124
But it wasn't something else.
He didn't like messing up.
532
00:35:22,370 --> 00:35:24,372
He had to have
everything perfect.
533
00:35:25,874 --> 00:35:29,219
I actually recommended three
times that he not deploy.
534
00:35:32,547 --> 00:35:35,221
Hi, you've reached Brad Manning
at my deployment phone number.
535
00:35:35,383 --> 00:35:38,011
Please leave a message or call
me back later. Thank you.
536
00:35:43,099 --> 00:35:46,444
In October 2009, Bradley
Manning was sent to Iraq,
537
00:35:46,728 --> 00:35:50,528
posted at Forward Operating Base
Hammer, just outside of Baghdad.
538
00:36:01,076 --> 00:36:02,168
Baghdad
539
00:36:02,243 --> 00:36:05,338
We were the furthest FOB east
that you could go around the Baghdad area.
540
00:36:05,413 --> 00:36:06,665
FOB Hammer
541
00:36:06,748 --> 00:36:09,752
It was definitely the best,
most uneventful place
542
00:36:09,918 --> 00:36:11,386
you could have
been deployed to.
543
00:36:12,087 --> 00:36:14,340
We never had any enemy fire.
544
00:36:14,506 --> 00:36:16,429
We could walk around
without battle gear.
545
00:36:17,384 --> 00:36:21,764
We had a full gym. There was pool tables.
There was a basketball court.
546
00:36:22,097 --> 00:36:23,519
We had a little movie theater.
547
00:36:23,682 --> 00:36:25,855
We had a Pizza Hut,
a Burger King.
548
00:36:26,142 --> 00:36:29,487
A place to get your hair cut.
A place to get a massage.
549
00:36:30,271 --> 00:36:32,273
We had air-conditioned
living quarters.
550
00:36:32,482 --> 00:36:35,577
You could actually get cable
and Internet in your room.
551
00:36:36,236 --> 00:36:39,115
It was literally just
a home away from home.
552
00:37:43,511 --> 00:37:46,355
When you receive intel in,
it's extremely raw.
553
00:37:46,514 --> 00:37:48,516
A lot of the times
it's even in Iraqi,
554
00:37:48,683 --> 00:37:51,527
so we have to actually get it
translated and build a product
555
00:37:51,686 --> 00:37:55,407
so that the commander can
actually make military decisions.
556
00:37:56,065 --> 00:37:59,239
But much of the information
available to Manning's intelligence unit
557
00:37:59,402 --> 00:38:02,201
had nothing to do with
day-to-day combat operations.
558
00:38:02,405 --> 00:38:05,534
All of the analysts had access
to central computer networks
559
00:38:05,742 --> 00:38:08,416
for the Armed Forces
and the State Department.
560
00:38:08,703 --> 00:38:12,048
With a few key strokes, a
skilled user could gain access
561
00:38:12,373 --> 00:38:15,047
to vast streams of
classified emails, memos
562
00:38:15,210 --> 00:38:17,383
and reports from
around the world.
563
00:38:19,214 --> 00:38:23,060
Why was it that Private Manning
had access to all that information?
564
00:38:23,218 --> 00:38:26,722
9/11. Very simple.
565
00:38:26,888 --> 00:38:30,734
The mindset changed after 9/11 from
a need-to-know to a need-to-share.
566
00:38:30,892 --> 00:38:34,396
And the database
that he had access to
567
00:38:34,729 --> 00:38:38,654
was a representation of the need
for one entity of government
568
00:38:38,817 --> 00:38:42,242
to share broadly information
about its activities
569
00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:43,655
with another agency
of government.
570
00:38:43,905 --> 00:38:45,578
How many people
had access?
571
00:38:46,491 --> 00:38:48,084
It's a hard question
to answer.
572
00:38:50,954 --> 00:38:53,002
Manning was regarded
as one of the smartest
573
00:38:53,081 --> 00:38:54,924
intelligence analysts
in the unit.
574
00:38:55,083 --> 00:38:56,209
But more than others,
575
00:38:56,376 --> 00:38:59,755
he became increasingly distressed
by the reports he was seeing.
576
00:39:54,726 --> 00:39:58,071
He back-talked a lot.
He constantly wanted to debate.
577
00:39:58,146 --> 00:40:00,899
He wanted to be the person
that disagreed with everybody.
578
00:40:03,359 --> 00:40:05,361
We had a separate
little conference room.
579
00:40:05,528 --> 00:40:08,657
It had a doorway but it didn't
have a door that you could close.
580
00:40:08,823 --> 00:40:12,578
He'd go in there
and just scream.
581
00:40:58,122 --> 00:40:59,123
Testing 1, 2, 3...
582
00:40:59,207 --> 00:41:00,459
this is, uh...
583
00:41:00,541 --> 00:41:02,794
reverse shot, audio only...
584
00:41:03,294 --> 00:41:04,716
for Assange.
585
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,508
I was trying to chase him
after the Collateral Murder video,
586
00:41:08,675 --> 00:41:10,677
but he's
a pretty evasive guy.
587
00:41:10,885 --> 00:41:14,890
He doesn't have a home, doesn't have
an office, so it was no easy task.
588
00:41:15,848 --> 00:41:19,443
I'd been chasing him for weeks and
had one phone contact with him.
589
00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:22,238
But I heard he was speaking in
Norway, so I jumped on a plane.
590
00:41:30,029 --> 00:41:32,077
Turned up in Oslo
and sort of
591
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:35,790
shadowed him for a few days
until things started to click.
592
00:41:37,412 --> 00:41:40,757
This is not the liberal democracy
that we had all dreamed of.
593
00:41:40,832 --> 00:41:46,714
This is an encroaching,
privatized censorship regime.
594
00:42:00,226 --> 00:42:01,318
So embarrassing.
595
00:42:01,394 --> 00:42:02,987
- What's that?
- Goddamn camera in my face.
596
00:42:04,188 --> 00:42:07,237
Congratulations. Thank you.
Very, great chat, great speech.
597
00:42:09,068 --> 00:42:11,912
At that time, he had an underground
following, of which I was aware.
598
00:42:12,071 --> 00:42:14,199
He's Australian,
he's from Melbourne.
599
00:42:14,615 --> 00:42:16,617
But he had no
public profile really.
600
00:42:23,541 --> 00:42:24,588
WikiLeaks is not
the first time
601
00:42:24,667 --> 00:42:26,544
you've come to the attention
of the Australian public.
602
00:42:26,627 --> 00:42:28,379
You had another
controversial period
603
00:42:28,463 --> 00:42:31,433
when you were involved with
a group that was essentially
604
00:42:31,507 --> 00:42:32,850
trying to penetrate
605
00:42:32,967 --> 00:42:34,310
military computer systems.
606
00:42:34,385 --> 00:42:36,353
What was the motivation there?
607
00:42:36,637 --> 00:42:37,934
Well, it was two motivations.
608
00:42:38,014 --> 00:42:41,359
One was just
intellectual exploration,
609
00:42:41,726 --> 00:42:44,650
and the challenge to do this.
610
00:42:44,979 --> 00:42:49,826
So if you're a teenager at this
time in a suburb of Melbourne,
611
00:42:52,278 --> 00:42:55,703
and this was before there was
public access to the Internet,
612
00:42:56,699 --> 00:43:00,044
this was an incredibly
intellectually liberating thing
613
00:43:00,161 --> 00:43:03,381
to go out and explore
the world with your mind.
614
00:43:06,709 --> 00:43:08,052
G'day, mate!
615
00:43:09,504 --> 00:43:11,882
No, a hacker's not someone
that kills their victim,
616
00:43:12,006 --> 00:43:14,680
dismembers them, and cuts
them into small pieces.
617
00:43:14,842 --> 00:43:16,469
Hackers do far more
damage than that.
618
00:43:16,677 --> 00:43:19,851
Hackers, the mystery
operators of the Internet.
619
00:43:20,431 --> 00:43:22,684
In the eyes of the law,
they're criminal.
620
00:43:23,017 --> 00:43:24,189
But who are they?
621
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:27,363
It was a really interesting period
in Melbourne in the early '90s.
622
00:43:27,522 --> 00:43:29,115
There was a few places
on earth
623
00:43:29,273 --> 00:43:32,447
that really clicked into
the Internet, pre-internet.
624
00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:34,362
There was also a sense
of rebelliousness,
625
00:43:34,529 --> 00:43:37,157
sort of an alternative political
culture in Melbourne.
626
00:43:37,281 --> 00:43:38,373
All those things converged.
627
00:43:38,533 --> 00:43:41,377
And Julian was absolutely
the core part of...
628
00:43:41,536 --> 00:43:43,379
It was almost the cliché,
the teen hacker.
629
00:43:43,871 --> 00:43:46,124
Seventy-two million
people dead'?
630
00:43:46,374 --> 00:43:49,218
Is this a game
631
00:43:49,961 --> 00:43:51,383
or is it real?
632
00:43:53,714 --> 00:43:54,761
Oh, wow.
633
00:43:54,841 --> 00:43:56,889
Their struggle
was against the state.
634
00:43:57,468 --> 00:44:01,723
And they thought that triumph
of intelligent individuals
635
00:44:01,931 --> 00:44:05,185
over the possibility
of state surveillance,
636
00:44:05,268 --> 00:44:06,895
that's the heart of
what they were doing.
637
00:44:07,728 --> 00:44:10,072
And Julian Assange, who at
that point was a young hacker,
638
00:44:10,189 --> 00:44:11,236
got into that world.
639
00:44:11,357 --> 00:44:12,574
We're going to
show 'em, baby.
640
00:44:12,817 --> 00:44:15,161
And he became
a central figure.
641
00:44:16,654 --> 00:44:19,328
The group was called
the International Subversives.
642
00:44:19,657 --> 00:44:21,500
Among them was
Julian Assange,
643
00:44:21,659 --> 00:44:23,912
known by the online
name of Mendax,
644
00:44:24,078 --> 00:44:26,957
short for a Latin phrase
meaning "noble liar. "
645
00:44:28,374 --> 00:44:32,129
Hackers in Melbourne were also
suspects in the WANK worm attack,
646
00:44:32,295 --> 00:44:33,968
though their involvement
was never proven.
647
00:44:35,214 --> 00:44:36,887
Two years after
the WANK worm,
648
00:44:37,091 --> 00:44:39,344
Assange was implicated
in another hack.
649
00:44:40,261 --> 00:44:44,437
Julian Assange allegedly
accessed computer systems around the world
650
00:44:44,599 --> 00:44:47,022
through weak links
in the Internet system,
651
00:44:47,435 --> 00:44:50,109
meaning, "The whole computer
opened up to him
652
00:44:50,313 --> 00:44:53,317
"and he could walk around
like God Almighty."
653
00:44:53,441 --> 00:44:57,196
Hackers have this belief that
we are getting a police state,
654
00:44:57,361 --> 00:45:00,786
that information is being hidden
from the broad community...
655
00:45:01,032 --> 00:45:03,160
Ken Day was an
Australian expert on hackers
656
00:45:03,784 --> 00:45:06,378
and the first person to
investigate Julian Assange
657
00:45:06,537 --> 00:45:09,882
as part of an undercover sting
called Operation Weather.
658
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,502
It was
a very difficult case
659
00:45:12,668 --> 00:45:14,511
because it was only
the second time we'd done
660
00:45:14,670 --> 00:45:18,345
an investigation in this particular
style, so we were still learning.
661
00:45:20,009 --> 00:45:24,310
What we did was capture the sound
going across the telephone line,
662
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,685
so we could see what was typed
and the signal coming back.
663
00:45:29,185 --> 00:45:32,359
The hackers had broken into the
U.S. Air Force, the Navy,
664
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:33,857
and the U.S. defense network
665
00:45:33,981 --> 00:45:37,030
that had the power to block entire
countries from the Internet.
666
00:45:37,485 --> 00:45:41,490
We had a back door in U.S. military
security coordination center.
667
00:45:41,822 --> 00:45:44,666
This is the peak security...
668
00:45:45,326 --> 00:45:49,331
It's for controlling the security of
MILNET, the U.S. military Internet.
669
00:45:49,664 --> 00:45:52,338
We had total control
over this for two years.
670
00:45:53,334 --> 00:45:56,964
The Internet was a new frontier for
people to go out and express themselves
671
00:45:57,338 --> 00:45:59,841
that "I am there, I am the
first, lam the all-powerful."
672
00:46:00,091 --> 00:46:03,516
This is the common theme
with people that are hackers.
673
00:46:04,011 --> 00:46:06,981
It was all ego-driven,
"I am the best."
674
00:46:11,519 --> 00:46:15,069
Julian was charged with
29 counts of penetrating, altering,
675
00:46:15,231 --> 00:46:17,233
and destroying
government data.
676
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:19,902
The defense asked
the court to be lenient
677
00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:22,242
because Assange had
lived a difficult childhood,
678
00:46:22,405 --> 00:46:24,407
continually moving
from city to city
679
00:46:24,740 --> 00:46:26,993
with no lasting
relationships.
680
00:46:27,201 --> 00:46:30,796
His only constant connection with
the outside world was the Internet.
681
00:46:32,248 --> 00:46:34,751
After a five year
investigation and trial,
682
00:46:34,917 --> 00:46:37,636
Julian pied guilty
to 24 hacking offenses.
683
00:46:38,296 --> 00:46:40,719
He was sentenced
to three years of probation.
684
00:46:41,173 --> 00:46:43,426
He believes that what
he was doing was not wrong,
685
00:46:43,592 --> 00:46:46,061
and probably rues the day
that he pied guilty-
686
00:46:46,887 --> 00:46:49,356
Julian does not
like being judged.
687
00:46:49,515 --> 00:46:53,361
His rationalization is, "Yeah, I've
been convicted, but it was unjust.
688
00:46:53,561 --> 00:46:55,359
"It's unfair. I'm a martyr."
689
00:46:55,855 --> 00:46:56,902
He didn't accept it.
690
00:46:58,024 --> 00:47:00,777
Julian always had
quite a rigid political view.
691
00:47:01,027 --> 00:47:04,907
He's always believed that there's these
secrets that need to be discovered.
692
00:47:05,906 --> 00:47:09,956
At 17, 18, Julian was looking at stuff
that he couldn't quite understand.
693
00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:13,248
It's all in acronyms, it's descriptions
of movements here and there,
694
00:47:13,414 --> 00:47:14,586
of weapons or of troops.
695
00:47:14,790 --> 00:47:16,633
He wasn't ready to
do anything with it.
696
00:47:17,251 --> 00:47:19,925
Indeed, he waited
20 years to see it again.
697
00:47:20,463 --> 00:47:22,136
And when he saw it again,
698
00:47:22,757 --> 00:47:23,974
he knew what to do
with it this time.
699
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,309
Months before he
received the helicopter video,
700
00:47:28,471 --> 00:47:31,975
Assange was trolling through hacker
conferences, looking for leaks.
701
00:47:32,141 --> 00:47:34,109
Why am I talking
to you guys at all?
702
00:47:34,185 --> 00:47:35,903
Um... Well,
703
00:47:35,978 --> 00:47:39,983
you have a "capture the
flag" contest here.
704
00:47:40,649 --> 00:47:42,492
We have our own
list of flags,
705
00:47:42,818 --> 00:47:44,320
and we want you
to capture them.
706
00:47:45,154 --> 00:47:49,159
And so if you Google for
"WikiLeaks Most Wanted 2009, "
707
00:47:49,658 --> 00:47:52,127
you'll see a list
of documents.
708
00:47:52,953 --> 00:47:56,833
If you are in a position or you
know someone who's in a position
709
00:47:57,291 --> 00:48:01,137
to get this material, and get it,
give it to us, no questions asked,
710
00:48:01,504 --> 00:48:03,506
you will help
change history.
711
00:48:05,674 --> 00:48:07,642
One month
into Manning's deployment,
712
00:48:07,802 --> 00:48:10,305
WikiLeaks published
the 9/11 pager messages.
713
00:48:10,721 --> 00:48:11,768
Manning took notice.
714
00:48:19,605 --> 00:48:20,652
Only days later,
715
00:48:20,731 --> 00:48:24,281
he saved Julian Assange's contact
information to his computer.
716
00:48:25,152 --> 00:48:28,782
Then taking a cue from the
WikiLeaks Most Wanted List,
717
00:48:28,906 --> 00:48:32,501
Manning began searching for CIA
detainee interrogation videos
718
00:48:32,660 --> 00:48:35,664
on the classified networks
that were cleared for his use.
719
00:48:38,332 --> 00:48:40,585
Like other potential
whistle-blowers,
720
00:48:40,751 --> 00:48:43,504
he began to wonder if he had
access to secret information
721
00:48:43,587 --> 00:48:45,510
the public should know.
722
00:48:45,881 --> 00:48:47,508
In the course of his work
723
00:48:47,591 --> 00:48:50,390
he had already downloaded
thousands of military reports
724
00:48:50,553 --> 00:48:52,555
from Iraq and Afghanistan.
725
00:48:53,264 --> 00:48:55,358
It was there that
he captured his flags.
726
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:57,647
A lot of flags.
727
00:49:33,095 --> 00:49:35,097
While Manning was
playing with a new identity,
728
00:49:35,264 --> 00:49:38,017
he was also imagining
a new role for himself.
729
00:49:38,684 --> 00:49:40,527
He visited his
boyfriend in Boston
730
00:49:40,853 --> 00:49:43,276
and went to a party at
a college hackerspace,
731
00:49:43,564 --> 00:49:45,817
where he was
caught on camera.
732
00:49:46,984 --> 00:49:49,453
During this period,
maybe even at this moment,
733
00:49:49,820 --> 00:49:53,916
Manning had in his possession nearly
500, 000 classified documents
734
00:49:54,158 --> 00:49:56,252
about the wars in Iraq
and Afghanistan.
735
00:49:56,994 --> 00:49:59,417
While on leave, he contacted
The Washington Post
736
00:49:59,580 --> 00:50:01,082
and The New York Times.
737
00:50:01,248 --> 00:50:02,750
When neither showed interest
738
00:50:02,917 --> 00:50:06,137
Manning sent the so-called
"war logs" to WikiLeaks.
739
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:36,288
Good morning. Him?
740
00:50:36,450 --> 00:50:38,828
How would an Army private
allegedly gain access
741
00:50:38,953 --> 00:50:40,170
to top secret information?
742
00:50:40,329 --> 00:50:42,331
The Army has detained
a U.S. soldier
743
00:50:42,623 --> 00:50:45,342
in connection with the leak
of this classified video.
744
00:50:45,459 --> 00:50:49,965
The prime suspect is 22-year-old
Army Private First Class Bradley Manning.
745
00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:53,304
For allegedly leaking this
classified gun camera video
746
00:50:53,509 --> 00:50:55,807
of an Apache helicopter
attacking civilians.
747
00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:58,223
Really in the
first few days after we heard
748
00:50:58,305 --> 00:51:00,478
about this problem
with Private Manning,
749
00:51:00,641 --> 00:51:03,645
it felt like the worst
possible scenario.
750
00:51:03,811 --> 00:51:07,315
At that time not really
understanding what it means for us,
751
00:51:07,565 --> 00:51:09,988
and what the hell
was actually going on.
752
00:51:10,317 --> 00:51:11,910
Private First
Class Bradley Manning,
753
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:15,414
he found a former computer
hacker in Sacramento, California
754
00:51:15,573 --> 00:51:18,668
and that former computer hacker
was growing increasingly alarmed,
755
00:51:18,826 --> 00:51:20,828
eventually turning him in.
756
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:26,505
He needed a friend, and I wish
that I could have been that friend.
757
00:51:27,501 --> 00:51:32,257
There was a responsibility
to the needs of the many
758
00:51:32,506 --> 00:51:35,635
rather than simply
the needs of Bradley Manning.
759
00:51:36,510 --> 00:51:38,103
Lamo
met with federal agents
760
00:51:38,262 --> 00:51:41,106
and gave them a copy of his
chats with Bradley Manning.
761
00:51:41,265 --> 00:51:42,983
He also gave a copy
to Kevin Poulsen,
762
00:51:43,350 --> 00:51:45,273
a friend and former
convicted hacker,
763
00:51:45,477 --> 00:51:47,900
who is now an editor
at Wired. com.
764
00:51:48,314 --> 00:51:52,694
I had just done a story
about Adrian being institutionalized.
765
00:51:52,776 --> 00:51:56,451
While he was institutionalized,
they had adjusted his medications.
766
00:51:56,989 --> 00:51:59,083
I almost had kind
of a suspicion that
767
00:51:59,158 --> 00:52:02,002
maybe his new medications
weren't agreeing with him
768
00:52:02,077 --> 00:52:06,207
and this was A Beautiful Mind situation,
and he was imagining all this.
769
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:10,424
Lamo gave Poulsen the
okay to publish the story,
770
00:52:10,586 --> 00:52:15,057
and days later, Wired.com broke
the news of Manning's arrest.
771
00:52:15,215 --> 00:52:16,888
Nobody wanted
Adrian to go to the media,
772
00:52:17,009 --> 00:52:18,761
but apparently
it was already done.
773
00:52:18,927 --> 00:52:22,306
And, well, he ended up approaching
a lot of media after that.
774
00:52:22,389 --> 00:52:23,686
It just sort of exploded.
775
00:52:23,807 --> 00:52:27,311
Did it make you feel patriotic
when you turned Manning in?
776
00:52:27,436 --> 00:52:30,940
It made me feel very sad
777
00:52:31,023 --> 00:52:35,244
that I could not have
interdicted this leak...
778
00:52:35,402 --> 00:52:39,908
I believed that his actions
were endangering lives...
779
00:52:40,908 --> 00:52:43,912
Adrian lives his life as
though he's writing it like a novel.
780
00:52:44,078 --> 00:52:46,080
And every novelist
wants to be read.
781
00:52:47,414 --> 00:52:52,762
It's my job to play the role that I'm
cast in to the very best of my ability,
782
00:52:52,961 --> 00:52:55,635
the same as any other actor.
783
00:52:55,923 --> 00:53:00,144
You can't possibly be
yourself in the public eye.
784
00:53:00,594 --> 00:53:02,972
All of the little things
that make us human
785
00:53:03,138 --> 00:53:06,813
don't stand up under the
scrutiny of the camera.
786
00:53:07,101 --> 00:53:12,449
I'd like to also point out that
I think that this marks the end
787
00:53:12,606 --> 00:53:16,782
of WikiLeaks's ability to say that
they have never had a source be outed.
788
00:53:19,279 --> 00:53:20,656
So what's been the update
on Manning?
789
00:53:20,781 --> 00:53:22,624
Gimme the news,
it's only two days old.
790
00:53:22,741 --> 00:53:25,415
So he has been
charged with espionage.
791
00:53:25,786 --> 00:53:28,130
The allegation being
that he has transferred
792
00:53:28,288 --> 00:53:32,794
at least 50 classified
cables to another party.
793
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,633
The other party is not named.
794
00:53:34,795 --> 00:53:37,469
After Bradley Manning
was arrested,
795
00:53:37,631 --> 00:53:41,636
attention shifted very much to
Julian, it was no longer a secret.
796
00:53:42,636 --> 00:53:45,606
The pressure through
this period was intense.
797
00:53:46,974 --> 00:53:49,818
Julian won't say where
he got that material,
798
00:53:50,144 --> 00:53:52,567
but he had the material, there
was no question about that.
799
00:53:53,564 --> 00:53:56,738
We try extremely hard to
never know who our sources are.
800
00:53:56,984 --> 00:54:00,158
So, all our encryption
technology is designed
801
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,493
to prevent us knowing
who our sources are.
802
00:54:03,073 --> 00:54:04,245
Was it
really possible
803
00:54:04,366 --> 00:54:07,961
that Julian didn't know that
Bradley Manning was his source?
804
00:54:08,203 --> 00:54:10,956
Or was saying so
an old Mendax tactic,
805
00:54:11,165 --> 00:54:13,509
telling a lie for
a noble cause?
806
00:54:14,126 --> 00:54:16,003
Private First
Class Bradley Manning
807
00:54:16,211 --> 00:54:17,383
is now said to
have confessed
808
00:54:17,463 --> 00:54:21,639
to passing more than 260,000
documents to WikiLeaks.
809
00:54:22,468 --> 00:54:23,685
That's not true.
810
00:54:23,761 --> 00:54:27,265
If he's the one, then that implies
there's much more to be released.
811
00:54:27,473 --> 00:54:28,975
Stephen Grey for
Channel 4 News.
812
00:54:29,099 --> 00:54:30,646
Thanks, Stephen, thanks...
813
00:54:30,726 --> 00:54:33,479
now I have every fucking gun
pointed at me.
814
00:54:33,937 --> 00:54:36,611
Julian knew
how much more there was.
815
00:54:36,857 --> 00:54:39,952
But now that Manning was
arrested, the question became,
816
00:54:40,068 --> 00:54:42,742
would WikiLeaks put Manning
in greater jeopardy
817
00:54:42,905 --> 00:54:45,533
by continuing to
release his materials?
818
00:54:45,699 --> 00:54:48,202
It's certainly
a very problematic situation.
819
00:54:48,786 --> 00:54:51,039
This is about as
serious as it can get.
820
00:54:52,372 --> 00:54:55,546
We have a situation where
there's a young man, Bradley Manning,
821
00:54:55,709 --> 00:54:58,758
who's alleged to be a source for
the Collateral Murder video.
822
00:54:59,296 --> 00:55:02,391
We do not know whether Mr. Manning
is our source or not.
823
00:55:02,591 --> 00:55:07,097
But what we do know is that
we promised the source
824
00:55:07,262 --> 00:55:10,607
that we would publish everything
that they gave to us.
825
00:55:16,188 --> 00:55:18,407
Even though his potential
source had been arrested,
826
00:55:18,607 --> 00:55:21,531
Assange was undeterred
from the WikiLeaks mission.
827
00:55:21,693 --> 00:55:25,368
And the hundreds of thousands of leaked
U.S. government secrets he possessed
828
00:55:25,572 --> 00:55:27,700
were burning a hole
in his pocket.
829
00:55:30,369 --> 00:55:33,418
Julian traveled around Europe
plotting his next move,
830
00:55:33,580 --> 00:55:37,585
and in Brussels he was tracked down by
investigative journalist Nick Davies.
831
00:55:37,751 --> 00:55:39,424
My pitch
to Julian was,
832
00:55:39,586 --> 00:55:42,760
instead of posting this secret
material on the WikiLeaks website,
833
00:55:43,006 --> 00:55:47,182
he shared it with an alliance of The
Guardian and other media groups,
834
00:55:47,344 --> 00:55:48,766
including The New York Times.
835
00:55:48,929 --> 00:55:53,275
Who, A, have the impact of reaching
millions of people instantly
836
00:55:53,392 --> 00:55:57,192
and also have natural political
connections in their own jurisdictions.
837
00:55:57,271 --> 00:56:00,616
So we were trying to give him
a kind of political immunity
838
00:56:00,858 --> 00:56:03,532
so that he could do
this clearly provocative
839
00:56:03,735 --> 00:56:05,612
and somewhat dangerous thing
840
00:56:05,779 --> 00:56:09,033
in relative safety and with
an assurance of success.
841
00:56:13,078 --> 00:56:16,799
Recognizing that WikiLeaks
could benefit from a louder megaphone,
842
00:56:17,124 --> 00:56:19,092
Julian agreed to
Nick's proposal.
843
00:56:19,293 --> 00:56:21,967
So, how am I going to get
the documents back to London?
844
00:56:22,212 --> 00:56:23,259
There was a little
bit of a risk
845
00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:25,883
that if the authorities were
monitoring his communications,
846
00:56:26,049 --> 00:56:27,096
as they might well have been,
847
00:56:27,259 --> 00:56:29,557
they would be aware
of my involvement with him,
848
00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:31,722
they would arrest me as I came
back into the United Kingdom,
849
00:56:31,847 --> 00:56:33,941
and take the material
if I had it on a laptop.
850
00:56:34,016 --> 00:56:35,893
We thought about a memory stick,
maybe they won't spot that?
851
00:56:35,976 --> 00:56:37,273
He came up with
a much better solution.
852
00:56:37,394 --> 00:56:40,273
He said that
he would create a website.
853
00:56:46,695 --> 00:56:49,494
In order to access the website,
I would need a password.
854
00:56:49,656 --> 00:56:52,409
So he took a paper napkin that
was on the table in this café
855
00:56:52,576 --> 00:56:54,249
where we were talking
in Brussels
856
00:56:54,411 --> 00:56:58,416
and he hooked together several of
the words in the commercial logo
857
00:56:58,665 --> 00:57:00,667
and wrote,
"No capital letters. "
858
00:57:02,210 --> 00:57:03,257
I stuffed it in my pocket.
859
00:57:03,337 --> 00:57:05,089
In the event that I was
arrested, people would assume
860
00:57:05,255 --> 00:57:07,053
that it was something I was
going to blow my nose on.
861
00:57:07,174 --> 00:57:09,097
And so it was I traveled
back to the United Kingdom,
862
00:57:09,259 --> 00:57:11,432
and, as it happened, nobody
stopped me so itwas all cool.
863
00:57:12,846 --> 00:57:13,938
Julian
would also team up
864
00:57:14,097 --> 00:57:17,397
with the London-based Bureau
for Investigative Journalism.
865
00:57:17,601 --> 00:57:19,945
In a prearranged drop point
in Central London,
866
00:57:20,103 --> 00:57:21,855
Julian met lain Overton.
867
00:57:22,105 --> 00:57:23,903
We turned up
and Julian was there
868
00:57:24,066 --> 00:57:25,739
wearing a bullet-proof vest
869
00:57:25,901 --> 00:57:27,528
and we had
a Middle Eastern meal.
870
00:57:31,031 --> 00:57:32,533
And he revealed
that he had
871
00:57:32,699 --> 00:57:36,954
the largest-ever military leak of
documents in the history of leaks.
872
00:57:38,413 --> 00:57:42,168
In the midst of this spy story
was thrust Iain's young colleague,
873
00:57:42,376 --> 00:57:44,879
a computer whiz
named James Ball.
874
00:57:45,087 --> 00:57:49,388
About 1:00 in the morning
I took delivery on a USB stick
875
00:57:49,508 --> 00:57:52,603
of 390,000 secret
U.S. military records.
876
00:57:53,595 --> 00:57:56,724
I make to leave and Julian
asks me where I'm going.
877
00:57:56,890 --> 00:57:58,892
I said, "Well, I was
going to go home. "
878
00:57:59,184 --> 00:58:01,607
He sort of pauses
and goes, "No, don't do that.
879
00:58:01,770 --> 00:58:04,114
"I don't want your address
linked to this address-
880
00:58:04,523 --> 00:58:08,323
"Can you find somewhere else to go
at least for four or five hours?"
881
00:58:08,402 --> 00:58:10,575
I don't really think
I can go and hit a club.
882
00:58:10,737 --> 00:58:12,580
I'd really hate having
to try and explain
883
00:58:12,739 --> 00:58:16,744
losing 400,000 secret documents
because I got a bit drunk.
884
00:58:39,766 --> 00:58:41,268
GAVIN MacFADYEN: Nobody had
ever done this before.
885
00:58:41,518 --> 00:58:45,068
How do you have teams of intelligent
people to go through this stuff?
886
00:58:45,230 --> 00:58:46,698
Nobody in my experience
as a journalist
887
00:58:46,773 --> 00:58:50,778
had ever been confronted with a tenth
of the mass of material he was.
888
00:58:50,902 --> 00:58:53,280
We're talking in a half
a million lines of data.
889
00:58:53,447 --> 00:58:56,621
If in the old days you had to take
half a million lines of data out,
890
00:58:56,742 --> 00:58:59,791
you'd have had 16 wheelbarrows out
of the front door of the Pentagon.
891
00:58:59,953 --> 00:59:03,082
This was the biggest leak
of secret material
892
00:59:03,248 --> 00:59:05,125
in the history of
this particular planet.
893
00:59:07,878 --> 00:59:10,427
Julian decided that
the first release of material
894
00:59:10,589 --> 00:59:12,262
would be
the Afghan War Logs.
895
00:59:12,424 --> 00:59:14,142
But he had to
understand them first.
896
00:59:15,218 --> 00:59:18,313
In London, The Guardian
set up a secret operation
897
00:59:18,388 --> 00:59:20,140
with key military reporters
898
00:59:20,307 --> 00:59:23,311
from The New York Times and the
German magazine Der Spiegel,
899
00:59:23,435 --> 00:59:25,278
veteran journalists
who could penetrate
900
00:59:25,353 --> 00:59:28,106
the arcane language
of the military.
901
00:59:28,190 --> 00:59:30,192
You've got much more
information than you have in this.
902
00:59:30,275 --> 00:59:32,027
But here's the key part...
903
00:59:32,402 --> 00:59:33,654
During the four
or five weeks
904
00:59:33,779 --> 00:59:36,123
when the reporters were working
on the Afghan War Logs,
905
00:59:36,323 --> 00:59:39,827
all of us became concerned that
there was material in there
906
00:59:39,993 --> 00:59:43,918
which, if published, could get people
hurt on the ground in Afghanistan.
907
00:59:44,122 --> 00:59:46,966
This huge attack goes
for 22 hours or something.
908
00:59:47,959 --> 00:59:49,131
Starts here.
909
00:59:49,336 --> 00:59:52,010
This particularly related
to ordinary Afghan civilians
910
00:59:52,214 --> 00:59:54,717
who in one operation
or incident or another
911
00:59:54,883 --> 00:59:57,102
had given information
to Coalition forces
912
00:59:57,427 --> 01:00:01,728
and that was recorded in there in such a way
that those civilians were identifiable.
913
01:00:09,397 --> 01:00:12,276
I raised this with Julian
and he said,
914
01:00:12,526 --> 01:00:16,201
"if an Afghan civilian helps Coalition
forces, he deserves to die,"
915
01:00:16,363 --> 01:00:19,788
and he went on to explain that they have the
status of a collaborator or an informer.
916
01:00:19,866 --> 01:00:20,958
Now...
917
01:00:21,034 --> 01:00:23,287
Are you sure about that?
That's definitely what he said?
918
01:00:23,370 --> 01:00:24,622
I have absolutely
no doubt about it at all.
919
01:00:24,704 --> 01:00:27,207
This was just me and him talking through
the detail of how we handle this.
920
01:00:27,290 --> 01:00:30,260
And this problem, potential
problem, had already come up.
921
01:00:30,460 --> 01:00:31,712
A, it's a moral problem,
922
01:00:31,878 --> 01:00:34,882
we are not here to publish
material that gets people killed.
923
01:00:35,048 --> 01:00:39,053
B, if you publish information which
really does get people hurt,
924
01:00:39,219 --> 01:00:41,267
or could conceivably
get people hurt,
925
01:00:41,429 --> 01:00:43,397
you lose your
political immunity,
926
01:00:43,557 --> 01:00:48,028
you're terribly vulnerable to the
most obvious propaganda attack
927
01:00:48,186 --> 01:00:49,904
which is waiting for us
in the wings
928
01:00:50,063 --> 01:00:51,861
that you are helping
the bad guys.
929
01:00:54,568 --> 01:00:56,070
Julian's a computer hacker,
930
01:00:56,236 --> 01:00:59,740
he comes from that ideology
that all information is good,
931
01:00:59,906 --> 01:01:01,908
and everything
should be published.
932
01:01:02,576 --> 01:01:04,999
I asked Julian if he would publish
information sent to his website
933
01:01:05,078 --> 01:01:06,170
WNYC - "On The Media"
March 2009
934
01:01:06,246 --> 01:01:08,340
that could lead to
the deaths of innocents,
935
01:01:08,415 --> 01:01:12,090
such as how to release anthrax
into a town's water supply.
936
01:01:18,925 --> 01:01:22,896
This is a man whose primary
way of interacting with the world
937
01:01:23,054 --> 01:01:24,397
is a digital one.
938
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:30,397
It is to some degree unsullied by
the limitations of human nature.
939
01:01:30,562 --> 01:01:34,988
He does sometimes reduce human
activity to something formulaic,
940
01:01:35,233 --> 01:01:37,235
and he doesn't see the human
heart beating in there.
941
01:01:37,736 --> 01:01:40,535
He just reduced it to that
very, very simple formula.
942
01:01:40,614 --> 01:01:43,037
"They speak to an occupying
force, they must be bad,
943
01:01:43,116 --> 01:01:44,242
"the informer
deserves to die."
944
01:01:47,287 --> 01:01:48,413
The coalition
of journalists
945
01:01:48,580 --> 01:01:51,880
weren't used to working with a
transparency radical like Assange,
946
01:01:52,083 --> 01:01:55,212
and Assange was still learning
the ethics of journalism.
947
01:01:55,420 --> 01:01:57,639
They could only agree
on one thing,
948
01:01:57,714 --> 01:02:00,388
they were going to
release the documents.
949
01:02:05,889 --> 01:02:08,517
In London, a deadline was
set for all the partners
950
01:02:08,683 --> 01:02:10,151
to publish at the same time.
951
01:02:10,977 --> 01:02:14,607
Julian finally agreed to redactions,
the blacking out of names,
952
01:02:14,773 --> 01:02:17,117
and told his partners
he had a special process
953
01:02:17,275 --> 01:02:20,620
which would eliminate the identity
of sources from the documents.
954
01:02:21,112 --> 01:02:23,285
But with less than a week
before publication,
955
01:02:23,448 --> 01:02:26,793
Assange had neglected to tell
Domscheit-Berg in Berlin.
956
01:02:27,661 --> 01:02:29,163
So, there we were,
957
01:02:29,329 --> 01:02:32,333
four days before releasing
90,000 documents
958
01:02:32,916 --> 01:02:35,044
and no redactions made.
959
01:02:35,877 --> 01:02:38,005
It is
effectively impossible for us
960
01:02:38,838 --> 01:02:42,843
to notify some of these Afghanis in
their villages about this material.
961
01:02:44,094 --> 01:02:47,143
It looks like we will have to
do a redaction of some of them.
962
01:02:47,222 --> 01:02:48,314
Is that new for you?
963
01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:50,893
You're effectively doing a
bit of censorship yourself.
964
01:02:51,017 --> 01:02:52,860
Yeah, that would be new
for us, but remember...
965
01:02:53,019 --> 01:02:54,362
Time
was running out.
966
01:02:54,521 --> 01:02:55,693
Just before the release,
967
01:02:55,814 --> 01:02:58,863
Assange focused on a section
of 15,000 documents
968
01:02:59,025 --> 01:03:01,027
that contained
the most names.
969
01:03:01,695 --> 01:03:05,495
In desperation, he turned to
an unlikely source for help.
970
01:03:06,199 --> 01:03:09,669
It was reported that WikiLeaks has
asked the Department of Defense
971
01:03:09,744 --> 01:03:14,375
for help in reviewing approximately
15,000 classified documents
972
01:03:14,499 --> 01:03:16,547
that WikiLeaks obtained
973
01:03:16,668 --> 01:03:19,387
in an unauthorized
and inappropriate manner
974
01:03:19,546 --> 01:03:23,050
before WikiLeaks releases those
classified documents to the public.
975
01:03:23,717 --> 01:03:26,971
Julian urged The New York
Times to send a letter to the Pentagon
976
01:03:27,053 --> 01:03:29,306
asking if they want to
help with redactions,
977
01:03:29,514 --> 01:03:30,811
and they refused,
978
01:03:31,141 --> 01:03:33,564
and that was 24 hours
before the release.
979
01:03:33,727 --> 01:03:36,196
...classified
and sensitive information...
980
01:03:36,896 --> 01:03:41,572
This notion that he didn't care about
what was in that material is not true.
981
01:03:41,693 --> 01:03:45,243
He was actually quite
tortured by this material
982
01:03:45,363 --> 01:03:47,832
and with very few resources.
983
01:03:48,742 --> 01:03:51,370
By himself, day and night,
he was consumed
984
01:03:51,536 --> 01:03:55,131
with working out what to release
and what not to release.
985
01:03:55,206 --> 01:03:59,677
WikiLeaks is a tiny organization
working on this huge scale.
986
01:03:59,878 --> 01:04:02,051
It's going to make
some mistakes.
987
01:04:03,757 --> 01:04:05,759
Is Spiegel "I-E"
or "E-l"?
988
01:04:06,051 --> 01:04:07,348
I-E.
989
01:04:07,510 --> 01:04:10,059
All right. Fuck that end
of the press release.
990
01:04:10,221 --> 01:04:12,690
He was without
any support structure,
991
01:04:12,891 --> 01:04:14,859
and he was about to
do a press conference.
992
01:04:15,018 --> 01:04:19,023
So, I'd say to him, "Julian,
you need someone there.
993
01:04:19,189 --> 01:04:21,237
"I mean, someone's got to
write a press release
994
01:04:21,399 --> 01:04:22,696
"or at least answer
the phone."
995
01:04:24,527 --> 01:04:27,531
So it was just in the
couple of days before that launch
996
01:04:27,697 --> 01:04:30,120
that a couple of volunteer
students came in.
997
01:04:30,241 --> 01:04:31,288
I'm going to go now,
998
01:04:31,368 --> 01:04:33,791
but I just want to give you
something to think about, which is,
999
01:04:33,953 --> 01:04:37,048
we've got this press
conference on, tomorrow.
1000
01:04:37,624 --> 01:04:43,176
We're going to be
totally inundated.
1001
01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:46,098
Completely
totally inundated.
1002
01:04:46,174 --> 01:04:47,972
Let's talk about
WikiLeaks as an organization.
1003
01:04:48,134 --> 01:04:50,637
Mmm-hmm. Is this Apple
or IBM, or is this...
1004
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,018
It's
a corner gas station,
1005
01:04:53,139 --> 01:04:55,141
with some extremely
bright attendants.
1006
01:04:57,060 --> 01:04:59,529
it was true that he tried
to create an impression
1007
01:04:59,687 --> 01:05:01,234
that it was this very
large organization.
1008
01:05:01,398 --> 01:05:05,448
It was Julian Assange,
his $300 laptop,
1009
01:05:06,611 --> 01:05:07,703
10 SIM cards,
1010
01:05:07,862 --> 01:05:10,536
and a very cheap jacket
1011
01:05:10,824 --> 01:05:12,371
that he'd put on if he
had to do an interview.
1012
01:05:18,331 --> 01:05:20,333
He woke up late,
of course.
1013
01:05:20,625 --> 01:05:22,798
I'm knocking on the door.
"Julian, come on, man."
1014
01:05:23,503 --> 01:05:25,972
He gets up.
Just his normal thing.
1015
01:05:29,134 --> 01:05:30,351
What's the time?
What's the time?
1016
01:05:30,969 --> 01:05:32,312
Twenty-five to.
1017
01:05:32,512 --> 01:05:34,606
I also need to prepare a little
list of things. All right.
1018
01:05:35,849 --> 01:05:36,850
I'll be two minutes.
How are you feeling?
1019
01:05:37,517 --> 01:05:38,860
Tired.
I haven't been to sleep.
1020
01:05:38,935 --> 01:05:40,357
But, good.
1021
01:05:40,854 --> 01:05:42,697
Fourteen pages in The
Guardian this morning.
1022
01:05:43,106 --> 01:05:46,201
"Massive leak of secret files
exposes true Afghan war."
1023
01:05:46,359 --> 01:05:48,361
We tell our sources
maximum political impact,
1024
01:05:48,528 --> 01:05:50,121
and I think
we got pretty close.
1025
01:05:50,321 --> 01:05:51,994
There's
10 trucks out there,
1026
01:05:52,198 --> 01:05:54,200
10 media trucks,
10 media trucks.
1027
01:05:54,534 --> 01:05:55,535
Yep.
1028
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:58,542
It'll be a good outcome.
1029
01:06:06,463 --> 01:06:11,139
He walked out that door as
the sort of aging student hobo.
1030
01:06:11,968 --> 01:06:14,972
By the time he had made
this 50-yard walk,
1031
01:06:15,180 --> 01:06:17,182
he was a rock star.
1032
01:06:17,348 --> 01:06:19,692
He was one of the most
famous guys on the planet.
1033
01:06:30,695 --> 01:06:32,038
Holy fuck.
1034
01:06:33,156 --> 01:06:36,706
Most of you have read
some of the morning papers.
1035
01:06:36,868 --> 01:06:39,542
So, this is The Guardian
from this morning.
1036
01:06:40,288 --> 01:06:43,212
Fourteen pages
about this topic.
1037
01:06:43,291 --> 01:06:47,171
It's clear that it will
shape an understanding
1038
01:06:47,253 --> 01:06:50,257
of what the past six years
of war has been like,
1039
01:06:50,423 --> 01:06:55,429
and that the course of
the war needs to change.
1040
01:06:56,346 --> 01:06:58,940
The war logs revealed a
conflict that was very different
1041
01:06:59,098 --> 01:07:01,226
from what citizens
had been told.
1042
01:07:01,392 --> 01:07:04,646
Civilian casualties were
much higher than reported.
1043
01:07:04,812 --> 01:07:08,817
America's supposed ally, Pakistan,
was playing a double game,
1044
01:07:08,983 --> 01:07:10,906
taking military aid
from the U.S.,
1045
01:07:11,069 --> 01:07:14,619
even while working with the Taliban
to plan attacks in Afghanistan.
1046
01:07:15,532 --> 01:07:20,459
The war logs also revealed the existence
of a secret American assassination squad,
1047
01:07:20,620 --> 01:07:24,796
with a terrible record of wounding
and killing women and children.
1048
01:07:28,461 --> 01:07:32,261
There is nothing that will have
greater consequences for our nation
1049
01:07:32,423 --> 01:07:35,393
than the unleashing
of the brutality of war.
1050
01:07:35,552 --> 01:07:38,101
To have those types
of decisions,
1051
01:07:38,179 --> 01:07:41,649
those types of deliberations,
done in secrecy
1052
01:07:42,475 --> 01:07:44,819
is a tremendous disservice
to the American people,
1053
01:07:44,894 --> 01:07:46,862
because these are things that
are being done in their names.
1054
01:07:46,980 --> 01:07:49,324
And whether you agree
with it or not,
1055
01:07:49,482 --> 01:07:52,986
to have a free back-and-forth
airing of these is essential.
1056
01:07:53,820 --> 01:07:56,573
All the material is
over seven months old,
1057
01:07:56,823 --> 01:07:59,827
so it's of no current
operational consequence.
1058
01:08:00,410 --> 01:08:03,664
Now, in what circumstances
wouldn't you publish information,
1059
01:08:03,830 --> 01:08:06,174
or are there any circumstances in
which you wouldn't publish it?
1060
01:08:06,332 --> 01:08:08,676
We have a harm
minimization process.
1061
01:08:08,835 --> 01:08:13,136
Our goal is just reform,
our method is transparency.
1062
01:08:13,339 --> 01:08:15,842
But we do not put
the method before the goal.
1063
01:08:17,927 --> 01:08:19,019
Sorry.
1064
01:08:19,095 --> 01:08:21,598
To my amazement,
Julian announced to the world,
1065
01:08:21,723 --> 01:08:25,694
"WikiLeaks always conducts
a harm minimization process."
1066
01:08:25,852 --> 01:08:28,947
Julian had no harm minimization
process in place at all.
1067
01:08:29,188 --> 01:08:32,533
So, on the WikiLeaks
side, were the redactions made?
1068
01:08:32,900 --> 01:08:34,026
No.
1069
01:08:34,193 --> 01:08:38,039
There were 15,000 documents
in the end got held back.
1070
01:08:38,531 --> 01:08:41,034
But 75,000 documents
were published,
1071
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,202
and they contained
about 100 names.
1072
01:08:43,703 --> 01:08:45,501
The newspapers
published articles,
1073
01:08:45,663 --> 01:08:48,837
accompanied by only a few
hundred redacted documents.
1074
01:08:48,916 --> 01:08:52,420
But even after the holdbacks,
and despite Julian's promises,
1075
01:08:52,587 --> 01:08:56,262
WikiLeaks published 75,000
documents on its website
1076
01:08:56,507 --> 01:08:57,554
without redactions.
1077
01:08:58,343 --> 01:09:01,847
The battlefield consequences
of the release of these documents
1078
01:09:02,013 --> 01:09:04,732
are potentially
severe and dangerous
1079
01:09:04,849 --> 01:09:07,068
for our troops, our allies
1080
01:09:07,518 --> 01:09:08,735
and Afghan partners.
1081
01:09:10,730 --> 01:09:13,859
I do not know whether
anybody subsequently did get hurt-
1082
01:09:14,067 --> 01:09:16,069
The fact that
the material was there
1083
01:09:16,235 --> 01:09:18,579
and identifiable as
potentially dangerous
1084
01:09:18,821 --> 01:09:20,198
did the political damage.
1085
01:09:20,490 --> 01:09:22,163
When the material
was first published,
1086
01:09:22,241 --> 01:09:26,667
the world was indeed talking about
civilian casualties in Afghanistan,
1087
01:09:26,746 --> 01:09:30,421
and about the existence of a squad that
was going out and killing Taliban.
1088
01:09:30,500 --> 01:09:33,003
But the White House
managed the news,
1089
01:09:33,086 --> 01:09:36,511
and the story became "WikiLeaks
has got blood on their hands."
1090
01:09:36,589 --> 01:09:38,808
Mr. Assange
can say whatever he likes
1091
01:09:38,883 --> 01:09:40,009
about the greater good
1092
01:09:40,093 --> 01:09:43,814
he thinks he and
his source are doing,
1093
01:09:43,888 --> 01:09:46,391
but the truth is they might
already have on their hands
1094
01:09:47,016 --> 01:09:51,317
the blood of some young solider
or that of an Afghan family.
1095
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,904
The people at WikiLeaks could
have blood on their hands.
1096
01:09:55,024 --> 01:09:57,243
He does clearly have
blood on his hands.
1097
01:09:57,402 --> 01:09:58,449
The blood is on their hands.
1098
01:09:59,821 --> 01:10:02,244
This is where we get
into the information war.
1099
01:10:02,365 --> 01:10:06,836
That speculative blood became more
important than the actual blood.
1100
01:10:07,161 --> 01:10:08,253
OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM
1101
01:10:08,329 --> 01:10:10,707
Coalition troop deaths: 3,936 Afghan
civilian deaths: 15,500 - 17,400
1102
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:11,837
Taliban deaths:
15,000 - 25,000
1103
01:10:11,916 --> 01:10:14,010
We already can see
all that terrible stuff.
1104
01:10:14,168 --> 01:10:15,420
We know about that.
1105
01:10:15,545 --> 01:10:17,968
Let's focus on
your nightmares.
1106
01:10:19,632 --> 01:10:20,804
How all these people
might die
1107
01:10:20,883 --> 01:10:24,433
because the government's
secrets have been unleashed.
1108
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:26,522
As soon as
they pick up this line
1109
01:10:26,597 --> 01:10:28,190
about who's got
blood on their hands,
1110
01:10:28,266 --> 01:10:29,609
it's WikiLeaks
being isolated,
1111
01:10:29,726 --> 01:10:31,399
and that, from
a political point of view,
1112
01:10:31,477 --> 01:10:33,070
was a clever move
by the White House.
1113
01:10:33,146 --> 01:10:34,819
They stepped all around
any kind of argument
1114
01:10:34,981 --> 01:10:36,233
with these big news
organizations
1115
01:10:36,399 --> 01:10:37,571
and isolated Julian.
1116
01:10:38,860 --> 01:10:41,830
By creating a distinction
between Assange and the newspapers,
1117
01:10:41,904 --> 01:10:44,532
the government avoided a war
with the mainstream media
1118
01:10:44,657 --> 01:10:46,409
and invented a perfect enemy,
1119
01:10:46,826 --> 01:10:48,669
the guy Bradley Manning called
1120
01:10:48,828 --> 01:10:50,830
"the crazy,
white-haired Aussie. "
1121
01:10:52,081 --> 01:10:53,754
What was your name?
1122
01:10:55,042 --> 01:10:56,840
I don't know what it was,
I know what it is.
1123
01:10:57,003 --> 01:10:58,380
What is your name?
1124
01:10:58,671 --> 01:11:00,014
Julian.
1125
01:11:00,465 --> 01:11:01,967
Is this taking
some getting used to?
1126
01:11:02,049 --> 01:11:03,722
You've been pretty
much in the shadows
1127
01:11:03,968 --> 01:11:07,188
as far as the media's
concerned until recently.
1128
01:11:07,472 --> 01:11:12,353
We've grown a bit, so this is
now a time for me to do it.
1129
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,813
WikiLeaks needs a face?
1130
01:11:15,688 --> 01:11:18,032
Yeah, the public demands
that it has a face.
1131
01:11:18,191 --> 01:11:20,034
And actually we'd much
sort of prefer,
1132
01:11:20,193 --> 01:11:21,661
I'd prefer, if it didn't
have to have a face.
1133
01:11:21,819 --> 01:11:23,947
And we tried to do
that for a while.
1134
01:11:24,030 --> 01:11:25,407
Urn...
1135
01:11:25,531 --> 01:11:27,033
And people...
1136
01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:30,878
Just the demand was sort of so great,
people just started inventing faces.
1137
01:11:31,996 --> 01:11:33,498
Some call him a hero,
1138
01:11:33,664 --> 01:11:36,213
some see him as a threat
to national security.
1139
01:11:36,459 --> 01:11:37,802
Julian, thank you
for joining us...
1140
01:11:37,877 --> 01:11:39,800
This afternoon I talked to
the man behind the leaks...
1141
01:11:40,004 --> 01:11:41,722
- Julian Assange.
- Julian Assange.
1142
01:11:41,881 --> 01:11:43,554
Mr. Assange,
good morning to you.
1143
01:11:43,674 --> 01:11:45,347
What
have the leaks achieved?
1144
01:11:45,551 --> 01:11:48,555
We have published
more classified documents
1145
01:11:48,846 --> 01:11:50,723
than the rest of the
world press combined.
1146
01:11:50,848 --> 01:11:52,065
So it's journalistic.
1147
01:11:52,225 --> 01:11:54,853
I'm fond of the phrase,
1148
01:11:55,019 --> 01:11:56,566
"Lights on, rats out."
1149
01:11:57,230 --> 01:12:01,576
Do you feel you have
accomplished what you wanted to
1150
01:12:01,734 --> 01:12:03,532
with the release
of these documents?
1151
01:12:03,861 --> 01:12:05,204
Not yet.
1152
01:12:16,916 --> 01:12:18,634
You.
What?
1153
01:12:18,793 --> 01:12:20,045
Jesus Christ.
1154
01:12:20,795 --> 01:12:23,218
So, two with you
on the front.
1155
01:12:24,465 --> 01:12:25,933
My God, look...
1156
01:12:26,050 --> 01:12:27,393
Another double
page spread.
1157
01:12:27,552 --> 01:12:29,054
I think
that's the best photo.
1158
01:12:29,262 --> 01:12:30,559
That's not a bad photo.
1159
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:31,852
I think
it's really good.
1160
01:12:31,931 --> 01:12:33,979
And then you've got...
You've got your own banner
1161
01:12:34,100 --> 01:12:37,400
at the top here for three
pages, in The Times.
1162
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:40,607
I'm untouchable now
in this country.
1163
01:12:44,443 --> 01:12:46,036
- Untouchable?
- Untouchable.
1164
01:12:46,112 --> 01:12:47,614
That's
a bit of hubris.
1165
01:12:47,697 --> 01:12:48,744
Huh?
1166
01:12:48,823 --> 01:12:49,995
That's a bit of hubris.
1167
01:12:50,324 --> 01:12:52,201
Well, for a couple of days.
1168
01:12:52,326 --> 01:12:55,000
It can wear off. But the
next few days, untouchable.
1169
01:13:00,293 --> 01:13:04,173
The founder of WikiLeaks found
himself making news again today.
1170
01:13:04,297 --> 01:13:07,221
Sweden issued a warrant for
the arrest of Julian Assange.
1171
01:13:07,300 --> 01:13:08,768
Right now
Swedish authorities are
1172
01:13:08,843 --> 01:13:10,311
looking to question WikiLeaks
founder Julian Assange.
1173
01:13:10,386 --> 01:13:12,480
Swedish authorities have issued
a warrant for his arrest
1174
01:13:12,638 --> 01:13:16,484
on suspicion of molestation and
rape in two separate cases.
1175
01:13:20,938 --> 01:13:22,360
Saturday,
August the 21st, I woke up.
1176
01:13:22,523 --> 01:13:24,366
Another journalist
had sent an email
1177
01:13:24,525 --> 01:13:28,120
with a link to the website of the
Swedish newspaper Expressen.
1178
01:13:28,195 --> 01:13:30,118
I went to this website and I
thought, "Well, this is a joke,
1179
01:13:30,197 --> 01:13:31,289
"this is like
a spoof newspaper."
1180
01:13:31,365 --> 01:13:33,242
These huge headlines,
including one which claims
1181
01:13:33,326 --> 01:13:36,000
that Julian Assange has
sexually assaulted two women.
1182
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:37,121
"What is this about?"
1183
01:13:37,204 --> 01:13:40,208
So, I phoned a guy
in Stockholm
1184
01:13:40,333 --> 01:13:43,382
who is the main coordinator
for WikiLeaks in that city.
1185
01:13:43,794 --> 01:13:45,967
So I came up to this guy and I
said, "What on earth is going on?"
1186
01:13:46,464 --> 01:13:48,512
The man in
Sweden was Donald Bostrom,
1187
01:13:49,842 --> 01:13:51,264
an investigative
journalist
1188
01:13:51,344 --> 01:13:54,848
who had agreed to help Julian Assange
while he was in the country.
1189
01:13:54,972 --> 01:13:56,019
It was...
1190
01:13:56,098 --> 01:13:58,442
kind of the new Mick Jagger.
1191
01:13:59,018 --> 01:14:00,861
Yeah. I mean,
really, really.
1192
01:14:01,771 --> 01:14:04,115
Groupies, stalkers, media...
1193
01:14:04,190 --> 01:14:07,694
everyone had a big interest
in Julian at the time.
1194
01:14:08,527 --> 01:14:09,528
And he liked it.
1195
01:14:09,654 --> 01:14:11,372
He liked it?
Mmm-hmm. Of course.
1196
01:14:20,957 --> 01:14:23,301
Assange had thought
of moving his base to Sweden,
1197
01:14:23,459 --> 01:14:25,132
where WikiLeaks
kept its servers.
1198
01:14:25,336 --> 01:14:27,430
Laws were more favorable
to press freedoms
1199
01:14:27,630 --> 01:14:30,759
and Assange had
a growing fan base.
1200
01:14:30,841 --> 01:14:32,935
Fame offered Assange
a platform,
1201
01:14:33,094 --> 01:14:35,313
but it also made him
a visible target.
1202
01:14:36,514 --> 01:14:38,061
I said to Julian, "I think
you are on the list..."
1203
01:14:38,140 --> 01:14:40,359
"of undesirable people
for some governments."
1204
01:14:41,852 --> 01:14:43,399
"Recently, in Russia"
1205
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,322
"some journalists
were compromised"
1206
01:14:45,398 --> 01:14:46,820
"by girls in short skirts."
1207
01:14:47,066 --> 01:14:48,192
"it's a very easy trick."
1208
01:14:48,567 --> 01:14:50,410
"So please, take it easy."
1209
01:14:50,945 --> 01:14:54,040
That was exactly one week
before everything happened.
1210
01:14:54,156 --> 01:14:56,534
Breaking news... REPORTER
Internet platform WikiLeaks...
1211
01:14:56,617 --> 01:14:58,085
The Australian
has denied the allegations
1212
01:14:58,160 --> 01:14:59,457
saying that
they are without basis...
1213
01:15:00,663 --> 01:15:02,336
Julian Assange denied having
had non-consensual relations
1214
01:15:02,415 --> 01:15:04,838
with the two women of
35 and 25 years of age.
1215
01:15:06,043 --> 01:15:07,545
She described Assange
as violent
1216
01:15:07,628 --> 01:15:09,801
and said she tried to
refuse his advances.
1217
01:15:09,922 --> 01:15:11,924
She only consented
to having sex
1218
01:15:12,008 --> 01:15:14,852
after he agreed to
wear a condom.
1219
01:15:15,678 --> 01:15:19,273
But the condom somehow broke.
1220
01:15:19,974 --> 01:15:23,353
An unknown source leaked
the police report to the press.
1221
01:15:23,477 --> 01:15:25,525
It included the
testimony of Assange,
1222
01:15:25,771 --> 01:15:27,865
the two women,
and, surprisingly,
1223
01:15:28,024 --> 01:15:30,197
a picture of a torn condom.
1224
01:15:30,443 --> 01:15:32,821
There were other
peculiar things going on.
1225
01:15:32,945 --> 01:15:36,040
The case of one woman was
dropped, and then reopened.
1226
01:15:36,115 --> 01:15:40,712
The general sense was, it's awful
curious that these charges would emerge
1227
01:15:40,786 --> 01:15:45,007
just after a very embarrassing
and damaging leak.
1228
01:15:45,124 --> 01:15:46,501
There were various
possibilities here.
1229
01:15:46,625 --> 01:15:49,629
One was that some women
who wanted to sell a story
1230
01:15:49,795 --> 01:15:51,138
to the newspapers
had set him up.
1231
01:15:51,297 --> 01:15:55,177
Another was that a really nasty
right-wing group in Sweden
1232
01:15:55,342 --> 01:15:57,015
had conspired to set him up.
1233
01:15:57,178 --> 01:16:00,398
Maybe some dark agency from the
United States has done this.
1234
01:16:00,473 --> 01:16:03,317
And way out on the extreme
ranges of possibility,
1235
01:16:03,434 --> 01:16:04,651
well, maybe he did it,
I don't know!
1236
01:16:04,810 --> 01:16:06,904
Did anything happen between
you and these two women
1237
01:16:07,104 --> 01:16:10,654
that could be construed
as sexual coercion or rape?
1238
01:16:10,816 --> 01:16:13,160
No words, no actions,
no violence.
1239
01:16:13,319 --> 01:16:18,166
There is nothing that could
be construed as rape.
1240
01:16:18,324 --> 01:16:19,917
Nothing at all.
1241
01:16:20,785 --> 01:16:22,503
Or sexual coercion?
1242
01:16:22,828 --> 01:16:24,296
Well, I don't know
what the hell that means.
1243
01:16:28,167 --> 01:16:30,420
There's no doubt that this
organization is under siege...
1244
01:16:30,628 --> 01:16:32,596
It was clearly
a smear campaign...
1245
01:16:36,634 --> 01:16:38,602
We were warned
by Australian intelligence
1246
01:16:38,677 --> 01:16:40,975
we would receive
such an attack.
1247
01:16:41,055 --> 01:16:44,400
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange
is calling it a "smear campaign."
1248
01:16:44,517 --> 01:16:47,020
His supporters claim that the
warrant is a way of silencing him.
1249
01:16:47,144 --> 01:16:51,024
You're telling me this isn't a witch
hunt, this isn't a smear job? Come on.
1250
01:16:51,107 --> 01:16:54,202
One accuser apparently
worked with Cuban exiles
1251
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,660
and there's a story around
that she's a CIA operative?
1252
01:16:57,738 --> 01:17:00,412
This whole thing stinks
to the high heavens, I gotta tell ya.
1253
01:17:00,491 --> 01:17:01,743
I've seen this
enough times,
1254
01:17:01,826 --> 01:17:03,499
where governments
and corporations,
1255
01:17:03,661 --> 01:17:07,461
they go after people with
this kind of lie and smear.
1256
01:17:07,623 --> 01:17:09,717
This is all a bunch of hooey
as far as I'm concerned.
1257
01:17:09,834 --> 01:17:12,838
Well, it's certainly a
surreal Swedish fairy tale.
1258
01:17:13,087 --> 01:17:16,307
The only thing that hasn't walked
onto stage yet are the trolls.
1259
01:17:16,465 --> 01:17:18,593
And I'm waiting
for them to arrive.
1260
01:17:25,182 --> 01:17:28,482
It is my role
to be the lightning rod,
1261
01:17:28,644 --> 01:17:32,239
to attract the attacks against
the organization for our work.
1262
01:17:32,898 --> 01:17:37,654
One aspect of that has been the legal
situation for yourself in Sweden.
1263
01:17:37,820 --> 01:17:40,915
I'm not going to talk about
that in relation to this.
1264
01:17:42,324 --> 01:17:44,167
But it does
affect WikiLeaks.
1265
01:17:44,410 --> 01:17:46,583
I will have to
walk if you're...
1266
01:17:46,662 --> 01:17:48,335
Do you still...
You had once talked...
1267
01:17:48,497 --> 01:17:52,297
If you're going to contaminate
this extremely serious interview
1268
01:17:52,459 --> 01:17:53,802
with questions about
my personal life...
1269
01:17:53,961 --> 01:17:55,804
I'm not, what I'm asking is,
1270
01:17:55,921 --> 01:17:57,969
if you feel that it's
an attack on WikiLeaks.
1271
01:18:00,050 --> 01:18:01,393
Okay, sorry.
1272
01:18:02,303 --> 01:18:04,772
Julian, I'm happy to go
onto the next question.
1273
01:18:04,972 --> 01:18:06,224
All I'm asking is...
1274
01:18:06,307 --> 01:18:07,354
Sorry.
1275
01:18:07,433 --> 01:18:08,480
You blew it.
1276
01:18:17,610 --> 01:18:20,284
The case in Sweden
was still unresolved.
1277
01:18:20,404 --> 01:18:22,077
While the investigation
continued,
1278
01:18:22,156 --> 01:18:24,784
prosecutors permitted Assange
to leave Sweden
1279
01:18:24,909 --> 01:18:27,458
with the understanding
that he would reappear.
1280
01:18:27,620 --> 01:18:29,622
But Assange never went back.
1281
01:18:29,705 --> 01:18:33,585
Convinced Sweden was a trap,
he went underground in London.
1282
01:18:33,709 --> 01:18:35,803
Julian has
a certain paranoia,
1283
01:18:35,961 --> 01:18:37,463
but in the time
I was with him
1284
01:18:37,588 --> 01:18:41,468
I think that high security
awareness was actually relevant,
1285
01:18:41,592 --> 01:18:42,889
it was appropriate.
1286
01:18:42,968 --> 01:18:45,642
Mind you, he'd been
living like that
1287
01:18:45,804 --> 01:18:47,556
for the past, you know,
five or ten years
1288
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:49,483
when it probably
wasn't appropriate.
1289
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:51,523
Will there be anything
more coming from WikiLeaks
1290
01:18:51,644 --> 01:18:53,066
in the next two
or three weeks?
1291
01:18:53,145 --> 01:18:54,818
You never have a
good reason to be paranoid.
1292
01:18:54,939 --> 01:18:56,816
You have good reason
to be careful.
1293
01:18:56,899 --> 01:19:00,449
Stakes are high so you need to be
meticulously careful every day.
1294
01:19:01,111 --> 01:19:03,739
He'd been trained for
this moment, in evasive tactics,
1295
01:19:03,822 --> 01:19:06,996
and changing phones and taking out
batteries and changing computers.
1296
01:19:07,785 --> 01:19:09,913
May have been
a fantasy before,
1297
01:19:09,995 --> 01:19:12,248
but it served him well
because it became real.
1298
01:19:13,123 --> 01:19:16,468
He was the focus
of intense enemies.
1299
01:19:16,794 --> 01:19:20,264
Right now the Pentagon
reportedly searching for Julian Assange,
1300
01:19:20,381 --> 01:19:21,803
potentially on the verge
of releasing
1301
01:19:21,966 --> 01:19:24,890
a huge new stash
of confidential documents.
1302
01:19:25,052 --> 01:19:26,645
He was putting his head
above the parapet.
1303
01:19:26,762 --> 01:19:28,730
He was putting himself
in a dangerous position.
1304
01:19:28,806 --> 01:19:31,810
And I think, on the whole, he
handled the dangers pretty well.
1305
01:19:32,726 --> 01:19:34,820
There is a side to
this guy which is great,
1306
01:19:34,895 --> 01:19:38,240
and then there's this hidden side
which has been so destructive.
1307
01:19:38,816 --> 01:19:41,695
He's a natural
fabulist and storyteller
1308
01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:44,826
and lives intensely
in his imagination,
1309
01:19:44,905 --> 01:19:47,579
and to some extent that imaginary
world that he inhabits
1310
01:19:47,700 --> 01:19:52,046
becomes more real than the, as it were,
often mundane reality that we all live in.
1311
01:19:52,371 --> 01:19:53,463
Yes.
1312
01:19:54,707 --> 01:19:56,175
You talked about an aggressive
surveillance operation
1313
01:19:56,250 --> 01:19:58,423
against you and some
WikiLeaks employees?
1314
01:19:58,544 --> 01:20:01,423
We certainly were under
surveillance in Iceland.
1315
01:20:01,547 --> 01:20:04,892
I, personally,
had chased people
1316
01:20:04,967 --> 01:20:07,390
who were surveilling me
with video cameras.
1317
01:20:07,970 --> 01:20:09,722
He traveled
to a conference in Oslo
1318
01:20:09,888 --> 01:20:11,686
and then made
these allegations that
1319
01:20:11,765 --> 01:20:15,770
two State Department officials had
been on the airplane to follow him,
1320
01:20:15,894 --> 01:20:17,111
but there is no proof.
1321
01:20:17,521 --> 01:20:20,946
And this is what got tiring
to a lot of us over time.
1322
01:20:21,066 --> 01:20:25,321
Julian was constantly propagating
how much we're in danger
1323
01:20:25,404 --> 01:20:26,530
and all of these things.
1324
01:20:26,613 --> 01:20:30,959
And this was just lies
and propaganda.
1325
01:20:31,076 --> 01:20:33,329
Maybe it's the fame,
maybe it's the attention,
1326
01:20:33,412 --> 01:20:37,007
maybe it's the pressures of working
in this kind of environment,
1327
01:20:37,082 --> 01:20:41,132
but somehow this
idealist that I met
1328
01:20:42,087 --> 01:20:46,217
became something else
somewhere through the story.
1329
01:20:50,763 --> 01:20:54,267
This whole topic just
headed into a really bad direction.
1330
01:20:57,603 --> 01:21:00,106
There was this
article in Newsweek.
1331
01:21:01,106 --> 01:21:06,283
That's what Julian took as a proof
that I had been speaking to the press.
1332
01:21:07,780 --> 01:21:10,454
From that day on
I was a traitor,
1333
01:21:10,949 --> 01:21:13,577
I was trying to
stab him in the back.
1334
01:21:14,620 --> 01:21:18,716
It boiled down to me being
suspended for, as Julian put it,
1335
01:21:20,292 --> 01:21:25,014
"disloyalty, insubordination and
destabilization in times of crisis."
1336
01:21:26,507 --> 01:21:28,430
Where did that
language come from?
1337
01:21:28,509 --> 01:21:32,389
I think, as much as I can tell, that's
from the Espionage Act of 1917.
1338
01:21:34,098 --> 01:21:35,941
That was
a cruel irony.
1339
01:21:36,016 --> 01:21:39,020
Across the Atlantic, the United
States Department of Justice
1340
01:21:39,144 --> 01:21:42,148
was investigating whether it
could use the Espionage Act
1341
01:21:42,731 --> 01:21:44,950
to put Julian Assange in jail.
1342
01:21:45,442 --> 01:21:49,072
The Espionage Act is primarily
intended to address situations
1343
01:21:49,196 --> 01:21:53,417
where individuals pass national
defense information over to the enemy
1344
01:21:53,534 --> 01:21:55,411
in order to allow
the enemy to harm us.
1345
01:21:56,203 --> 01:21:59,924
It would be unprecedented if the
Espionage Act was being used
1346
01:21:59,998 --> 01:22:02,592
to attack individuals
who did not do anything more
1347
01:22:02,709 --> 01:22:06,555
than The New York Times or The
Washington Post does every day.
1348
01:22:14,012 --> 01:22:16,265
Do you want
to let them in first?
1349
01:22:19,184 --> 01:22:22,188
The next big releases
were the Iraq War Logs.
1350
01:22:22,354 --> 01:22:24,527
This time WikiLeaks had
worked with volunteers
1351
01:22:24,690 --> 01:22:28,240
to devise a computer program to
solve the redaction problems.
1352
01:22:28,402 --> 01:22:30,905
There were almost
400,000 documents
1353
01:22:31,029 --> 01:22:34,249
detailing that the U.S. military
had purposefully hidden information
1354
01:22:34,366 --> 01:22:38,416
about civilian casualties
and systematic torture.
1355
01:22:40,247 --> 01:22:43,342
President Obama sanctioned
the mass handover
1356
01:22:43,417 --> 01:22:46,216
of Iraqi prisoners of war
1357
01:22:46,336 --> 01:22:50,011
from the American troops over
to the Iraqi authorities.
1358
01:22:50,674 --> 01:22:53,427
And one of the things that is
against the Geneva Conventions
1359
01:22:53,552 --> 01:22:55,975
is you cannot hand over
a prisoner of war
1360
01:22:56,054 --> 01:22:59,149
to another authority who
you know commits torture.
1361
01:22:59,224 --> 01:23:01,272
But let me just say with
regards to the allegations
1362
01:23:01,393 --> 01:23:05,068
of not intervening when
coming across detainee abuse,
1363
01:23:05,147 --> 01:23:06,148
not true.
1364
01:23:06,231 --> 01:23:09,735
They had 1,300 allegations,
1365
01:23:09,818 --> 01:23:13,322
with medical evidence,
of quite horrific torture
1366
01:23:13,489 --> 01:23:17,084
by Iraqi army and police
against detainees.
1367
01:23:18,035 --> 01:23:19,412
We're talking
about sodomy,
1368
01:23:19,536 --> 01:23:21,914
we're talking about abuse
using rubber hoses
1369
01:23:21,997 --> 01:23:24,216
and beating people,
we're talking about murder.
1370
01:23:24,583 --> 01:23:28,588
The sort of torture that supposedly
we were "liberating" Iraq from.
1371
01:23:28,754 --> 01:23:32,475
The U.S. Administration
under Bush and under Obama
1372
01:23:33,217 --> 01:23:37,688
continued turning over prisoners
despite knowing this.
1373
01:23:38,639 --> 01:23:40,641
That is against
the Geneva Convention.
1374
01:23:41,141 --> 01:23:44,236
The Obama administration appears
to have committed war crimes.
1375
01:23:45,020 --> 01:23:46,818
Who knew that before?
1376
01:24:01,578 --> 01:24:03,296
- Bradley Manning's
letter to WikiLeaks
1377
01:24:03,372 --> 01:24:04,965
What
had Manning done?
1378
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,965
Was his leak, as the Army had
said, a reckless data dump?
1379
01:24:09,044 --> 01:24:10,421
Or was this
the act of a man
1380
01:24:10,671 --> 01:24:12,969
who had peeked behind the
curtain of a superpower
1381
01:24:13,048 --> 01:24:15,972
and decided that
what it was doing was wrong?
1382
01:24:18,011 --> 01:24:20,935
After the leaks, and just
before he was arrested,
1383
01:24:21,014 --> 01:24:22,357
Manning was trying to reckon
1384
01:24:22,474 --> 01:24:24,476
with what he had done
and where he was going.
1385
01:24:42,995 --> 01:24:44,872
There was never
even a possibility
1386
01:24:44,997 --> 01:24:49,173
that anyone could assume that
he had a female personality.
1387
01:24:49,835 --> 01:24:51,758
You mean that he
wanted to become a woman?
1388
01:24:51,837 --> 01:24:58,516
Well, we knew that he was at least
considering hormone therapy,
1389
01:24:59,344 --> 01:25:00,846
but no one cared.
1390
01:25:00,971 --> 01:25:02,018
It wasn't like,
1391
01:25:02,097 --> 01:25:04,316
"Okay, he's going to have to start
showering with the females."
1392
01:25:05,017 --> 01:25:07,019
Literally, nobody cared.
1393
01:25:09,688 --> 01:25:11,941
He would
call me and cry.
1394
01:25:12,357 --> 01:25:13,950
Very loud sobbing
1395
01:25:14,026 --> 01:25:19,374
like a child just in
a state of just utter loss,
1396
01:25:19,448 --> 01:25:22,076
and he kept saying,
"I won't make it,
1397
01:25:22,159 --> 01:25:24,002
"I can't make it,
I can't do this."
1398
01:25:31,251 --> 01:25:34,505
I constantly asked him,
"Do you have someone?
1399
01:25:34,588 --> 01:25:37,011
"Do you have
anyone to talk to,
1400
01:25:37,090 --> 01:25:39,843
"that's there, that you can
see on a daily basis?"
1401
01:25:39,926 --> 01:25:41,769
And he assured me
that he did not.
1402
01:25:43,764 --> 01:25:46,187
Manning did reach
out for help at least once,
1403
01:25:46,266 --> 01:25:49,520
in an email to
his master sergeant.
1404
01:25:49,603 --> 01:25:54,325
Manning attached to the email a picture
of himself dressed as a woman.
1405
01:26:10,916 --> 01:26:13,260
Several weeks later,
around dinnertime,
1406
01:26:13,335 --> 01:26:15,588
Manning was discovered
lying on the ground.
1407
01:26:15,671 --> 01:26:18,550
With a knife, he had scrawled
on a chair the words,
1408
01:26:18,632 --> 01:26:19,929
"I want. "
1409
01:26:21,635 --> 01:26:24,980
Later that same evening, Manning
tried to go back to work.
1410
01:26:25,764 --> 01:26:26,890
I was off-shift,
1411
01:26:26,973 --> 01:26:28,725
and I had to come in
to find something
1412
01:26:28,809 --> 01:26:30,402
that he should have
been able to find.
1413
01:26:30,477 --> 01:26:33,651
And he was pacing back and forth
saying smart comments to me.
1414
01:26:33,814 --> 01:26:35,987
And I blatantly said,
1415
01:26:36,108 --> 01:26:40,158
"Manning, how 'bout you fix your
shit before you try to fix mine?"
1416
01:26:40,487 --> 01:26:44,162
And he screamed and
punched me in the face
1417
01:26:44,282 --> 01:26:46,080
while I was sitting down.
1418
01:26:46,159 --> 01:26:48,833
My adrenaline immediately
hit overload.
1419
01:26:48,954 --> 01:26:50,627
I stood up,
pushed my chair back.
1420
01:26:50,789 --> 01:26:52,757
He continued to
try to fight me,
1421
01:26:52,833 --> 01:26:56,883
but I put him in, you know,
what UFC would call a"guillotine"
1422
01:26:56,962 --> 01:26:58,964
and pulled him on the floor,
1423
01:26:59,131 --> 01:27:02,351
and laid on top of him and
pinned his arms beside his head.
1424
01:27:02,509 --> 01:27:04,477
At that time, I can't
believe he messed with me,
1425
01:27:04,636 --> 01:27:06,638
I literally had
15-inch biceps.
1426
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,484
I was the last person he
probably should have punched.
1427
01:27:14,938 --> 01:27:17,111
My superiors decided that
1428
01:27:17,274 --> 01:27:20,824
it was just escalating too
much and he had to be removed
1429
01:27:20,944 --> 01:27:23,322
and have his weapon
taken away from him.
1430
01:27:29,494 --> 01:27:32,247
At that point he never
came back in the office.
1431
01:27:32,330 --> 01:27:35,334
He had to go work with the first
sergeant in the mailroom.
1432
01:27:41,214 --> 01:27:44,184
In the mailroom, Manning
still had an Internet connection
1433
01:27:44,259 --> 01:27:45,476
to military networks.
1434
01:27:45,552 --> 01:27:47,304
His gun had
been taken away,
1435
01:27:47,387 --> 01:27:50,482
but he still had access to
millions of classified documents.
1436
01:27:52,142 --> 01:27:53,985
We have personnel
security programs.
1437
01:27:54,060 --> 01:27:57,314
We try to take a look at the folks
to whom we give security clearances.
1438
01:27:57,397 --> 01:27:59,570
Should this young man have
been given that clearance?
1439
01:27:59,649 --> 01:28:02,744
In retrospect, certainly not.
In prospect, who knows'?
1440
01:28:02,819 --> 01:28:05,868
These are the kinds of decisions
that are difficult to make.
1441
01:28:05,947 --> 01:28:07,415
But let me put it
to you this way,
1442
01:28:07,491 --> 01:28:10,665
the American Army has had
incredibly stupid PFCs
1443
01:28:10,744 --> 01:28:11,961
for more than two centuries,
1444
01:28:13,663 --> 01:28:16,758
and PFCs occasionally
do incredibly stupid things.
1445
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:33,438
I didn't
see him get arrested.
1446
01:28:33,558 --> 01:28:36,061
But I saw him
walk down the hall
1447
01:28:36,311 --> 01:28:38,780
with about four MPs.
1448
01:28:39,606 --> 01:28:41,654
He had a grin on his face,
1449
01:28:42,150 --> 01:28:45,074
like, "I'm on top
of the world."
1450
01:28:46,988 --> 01:28:50,492
The last communication
I received from him
1451
01:28:50,659 --> 01:28:54,835
was that I was going to hear something
that would shock the world.
1452
01:29:27,112 --> 01:29:28,864
It was
a pretty simple process,
1453
01:29:28,947 --> 01:29:30,790
dropping CDs into your tower
1454
01:29:30,866 --> 01:29:32,789
and downloading large
volumes of information.
1455
01:29:32,909 --> 01:29:36,288
It wasn't incredibly
sophisticated.
1456
01:29:36,913 --> 01:29:38,540
That's
not quite true.
1457
01:29:38,623 --> 01:29:42,469
Manning turned his computers into
efficient exfiltration machines.
1458
01:29:42,586 --> 01:29:46,887
Over several months, Manning
made over 794,000 connections
1459
01:29:46,965 --> 01:29:48,808
with the State Department's
server.
1460
01:29:48,925 --> 01:29:51,474
He downloaded hundreds of
thousands of documents
1461
01:29:51,595 --> 01:29:53,518
without anyone noticing.
1462
01:29:55,849 --> 01:29:57,066
When he hit a snag,
1463
01:29:57,142 --> 01:30:00,316
he reached out to another hacker for
advice on how to crack passwords.
1464
01:30:06,902 --> 01:30:10,497
Later, Manning talked to him about
the progress of the uploads.
1465
01:30:10,572 --> 01:30:14,622
In Manning's buddy list, the address
was listed under a familiar name,
1466
01:30:14,701 --> 01:30:15,953
Julian Assange.
1467
01:30:58,578 --> 01:31:00,831
On November 28th, 2010,
1468
01:31:00,914 --> 01:31:02,916
WikiLeaks and
its media partners
1469
01:31:03,041 --> 01:31:06,636
began to publish a small
fraction, carefully redacted,
1470
01:31:06,711 --> 01:31:10,090
of the State Department cables
supplied by Bradley Manning.
1471
01:31:10,548 --> 01:31:12,892
The day-to-day memos
of American diplomats
1472
01:31:13,009 --> 01:31:16,889
revealed a surprising honesty about
how the world really worked.
1473
01:31:17,389 --> 01:31:19,312
It was that whole
Wizard of Oz moment.
1474
01:31:19,391 --> 01:31:22,440
We all look at these politicians,
"Oh, wow, they're so powerful!"
1475
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,609
And then it was the little dog
pulling the curtain away.
1476
01:31:26,606 --> 01:31:29,405
The cables exposed
criminal behavior and corruption
1477
01:31:29,526 --> 01:31:32,496
by tyrants in Egypt,
Tunisia, and Libya.
1478
01:31:32,570 --> 01:31:33,822
That in turn helped to fuel
1479
01:31:33,905 --> 01:31:36,249
an exploding popular anger
against repression,
1480
01:31:36,741 --> 01:31:38,994
the so-called Arab Spring.
1481
01:31:41,246 --> 01:31:42,498
They also told the truth
1482
01:31:42,580 --> 01:31:45,003
about the faults of
America's so-called allies
1483
01:31:45,083 --> 01:31:46,926
in ways that were
bound to reveal
1484
01:31:47,043 --> 01:31:49,762
that their power and legitimacy
were a kind of fraud.
1485
01:31:51,715 --> 01:31:55,060
This leak is
industrial scale.
1486
01:31:56,136 --> 01:31:58,764
It touches every relationship
the United States has
1487
01:31:58,847 --> 01:32:00,849
with other countries
around the world.
1488
01:32:01,516 --> 01:32:05,612
Even as the United States and others
try to manage the impact of this,
1489
01:32:05,729 --> 01:32:10,701
it will be a wound that just keeps
opening up on a recurring basis.
1490
01:32:12,152 --> 01:32:15,122
The behavior of the
United States was also exposed,
1491
01:32:15,196 --> 01:32:17,369
as the cables revealed
criminal cover-ups
1492
01:32:17,490 --> 01:32:21,745
and a systematic policy of using
diplomats to spy on foreign governments.
1493
01:32:23,538 --> 01:32:25,290
Look,
everyone has secrets.
1494
01:32:25,415 --> 01:32:28,589
Some of the activities
that nation-states conduct
1495
01:32:28,668 --> 01:32:31,012
in order to keep their
people safe and free
1496
01:32:31,087 --> 01:32:33,681
need to be secret
in order to be successful.
1497
01:32:33,757 --> 01:32:35,759
If they are broadly known,
1498
01:32:36,384 --> 01:32:38,182
you cannot accomplish
your work.
1499
01:32:38,261 --> 01:32:40,059
Now look, let me be
very candid, all right.
1500
01:32:40,263 --> 01:32:42,140
We steal secrets.
1501
01:32:42,223 --> 01:32:44,442
We steal other
nation's secrets.
1502
01:32:44,559 --> 01:32:46,357
One cannot do
that aboveboard
1503
01:32:46,436 --> 01:32:49,360
and be very successful for a
very long period of time.
1504
01:32:50,815 --> 01:32:53,568
Disclosures
like these tear at the fabric
1505
01:32:53,693 --> 01:32:57,038
of the proper function
of responsible government.
1506
01:32:57,864 --> 01:32:59,286
People of good faith
1507
01:32:59,365 --> 01:33:03,541
understand the need for sensitive
diplomatic communications,
1508
01:33:04,079 --> 01:33:06,628
both to protect
the national interest
1509
01:33:06,706 --> 01:33:08,424
and the global
common interest.
1510
01:33:09,042 --> 01:33:10,794
For the previous leaks,
the American government,
1511
01:33:10,877 --> 01:33:12,345
they were obviously angry,
1512
01:33:12,420 --> 01:33:14,468
but they suddenly decided,
1513
01:33:14,547 --> 01:33:18,097
"Right, now it's time to
get Draconian on their ass."
1514
01:33:18,259 --> 01:33:21,729
It's time that the Obama administration
treats WikiLeaks for what it is,
1515
01:33:21,888 --> 01:33:23,140
a terrorist organization.
1516
01:33:23,306 --> 01:33:26,685
What we should do is treat
Assange as an enemy combatant,
1517
01:33:26,851 --> 01:33:29,695
who's engaged in information
warfare against the United States.
1518
01:33:29,854 --> 01:33:32,232
He's a blackmail,
extortionist, terrorist.
1519
01:33:32,357 --> 01:33:34,155
...crackpot,
alleged sex offender...
1520
01:33:34,234 --> 01:33:36,157
He's a criminal and he
ought to be hunted down,
1521
01:33:36,236 --> 01:33:37,704
and grabbed,
and put on trial.
1522
01:33:37,904 --> 01:33:42,034
We have a very serious criminal
investigation that's underway
1523
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:44,202
and we're looking at all of
the things that we can do
1524
01:33:44,369 --> 01:33:45,871
to stern the flow
of this information.
1525
01:33:45,995 --> 01:33:48,544
He needs to be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law,
1526
01:33:48,665 --> 01:33:50,963
and if that becomes a problem,
we need to change the law.
1527
01:33:51,042 --> 01:33:52,669
We've got special ops forces.
1528
01:33:52,794 --> 01:33:54,637
A dead man can't leak stuff...
1529
01:33:54,712 --> 01:33:56,214
...illegally shoot
the son of a...
1530
01:33:56,339 --> 01:33:58,558
This little punk...
Now I stand up for Obama.
1531
01:33:58,716 --> 01:34:01,845
Obama, if you're listening today,
you should take this guy out.
1532
01:34:02,220 --> 01:34:05,724
I think Obama should put out a contract
and maybe use a drone or something.
1533
01:34:05,849 --> 01:34:08,398
That's what I'd like to see, a
little drone hit Assange, right.
1534
01:34:10,979 --> 01:34:13,073
All the threats
were aimed at Assange.
1535
01:34:13,231 --> 01:34:16,576
No one called for attacks on The
Guardian or The New York Times.
1536
01:34:17,527 --> 01:34:19,370
I found
that astounding.
1537
01:34:19,529 --> 01:34:21,873
If Julian Assange
should be charged
1538
01:34:22,031 --> 01:34:24,750
with some offense
under American law,
1539
01:34:24,909 --> 01:34:27,458
then absolutely
The New York Times editor
1540
01:34:27,537 --> 01:34:28,880
should be in
the slammer with him.
1541
01:34:29,873 --> 01:34:32,171
Suddenly, only
two days after the release
1542
01:34:32,333 --> 01:34:34,335
of the first batch of
State Department cables,
1543
01:34:34,502 --> 01:34:36,880
Interpol issued a demand
for Assange's arrest,
1544
01:34:37,046 --> 01:34:38,844
for his failure to
return to Sweden
1545
01:34:39,048 --> 01:34:41,517
to answer questions
about sex charges.
1546
01:34:42,886 --> 01:34:45,605
I'm really rather
worried by the political motivations
1547
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:47,023
that appear to
be behind this.
1548
01:34:47,140 --> 01:34:49,438
Sweden was one of
those lickspittle states
1549
01:34:49,517 --> 01:34:52,987
which used its resources
and its facilities
1550
01:34:53,062 --> 01:34:55,030
for rendition flights
and torture.
1551
01:34:55,106 --> 01:34:57,780
You think if he goes to
Sweden, he may be sent to the States?
1552
01:34:57,859 --> 01:34:59,532
Certainly my mind is
very open about that.
1553
01:34:59,611 --> 01:35:01,534
And you may fight it on that basis?
Certainly.
1554
01:35:02,197 --> 01:35:05,371
There were rumors of a
sealed indictment against Assange.
1555
01:35:05,533 --> 01:35:10,414
In secret, a U.S. grand jury served
subpoenas targeting WikiLeaks supporters.
1556
01:35:10,496 --> 01:35:11,839
Under political pressure,
1557
01:35:11,956 --> 01:35:16,052
VISA and MasterCard stopped
processing donations to the website.
1558
01:35:16,211 --> 01:35:18,680
VISA and MasterCard
will happily process payments
1559
01:35:18,838 --> 01:35:20,511
for the Ku Klux Klan,
1560
01:35:20,715 --> 01:35:24,219
for all kinds of organizations
around the world,
1561
01:35:24,385 --> 01:35:26,137
and yet this one,
1562
01:35:26,304 --> 01:35:28,727
with no charges,
no warrants, no nothing,
1563
01:35:28,973 --> 01:35:32,819
they've not only blocked it themselves,
they won't let any intermediaries do it.
1564
01:35:32,977 --> 01:35:36,823
Meanwhile, WikiLeaks' founder is
still hiding from the police,
1565
01:35:36,898 --> 01:35:39,321
but today he did
speak out, online.
1566
01:35:44,364 --> 01:35:48,210
What happens to WikiLeaks
if Julian Assange is arrested?
1567
01:35:48,326 --> 01:35:51,956
This is carrying on, this is huge
material that is really important,
1568
01:35:52,121 --> 01:35:54,795
and everyone working on it
is getting it out there.
1569
01:35:55,708 --> 01:35:58,837
WikiLeaks' principal
spokesman always has been Julian,
1570
01:35:59,003 --> 01:36:01,005
but with Julian
being in hiding,
1571
01:36:01,172 --> 01:36:02,719
I essentially filled
in the gap.
1572
01:36:02,966 --> 01:36:05,845
Where is Julian Assange,
this mythic character'?
1573
01:36:06,344 --> 01:36:08,187
Honestly can't remember
where I last saw him.
1574
01:36:08,805 --> 01:36:10,773
I ended up doing
a lot of their television,
1575
01:36:10,932 --> 01:36:13,105
looking pretty
much about 16.
1576
01:36:13,810 --> 01:36:17,189
You really did feel
a David and Goliath moment.
1577
01:36:17,605 --> 01:36:22,361
Do you consider your organization and
your website to be under attack?
1578
01:36:22,527 --> 01:36:24,200
Yes, all week it's
been under attack.
1579
01:36:25,029 --> 01:36:27,327
The WikiLeaks website
came under cyber attack
1580
01:36:27,490 --> 01:36:29,208
and kept falling offline.
1581
01:36:29,450 --> 01:36:32,294
In response, WikiLeaks supporters
began to mirror the site
1582
01:36:32,453 --> 01:36:35,127
on over 1,000 servers
around the globe.
1583
01:36:35,331 --> 01:36:38,210
It was impossible to remove
WikiLeaks from the Internet.
1584
01:36:39,085 --> 01:36:40,462
The Internet
in a digital era
1585
01:36:40,586 --> 01:36:44,056
lets governments get more
information and more power
1586
01:36:44,173 --> 01:36:48,053
and more communication
than they've ever had before.
1587
01:36:48,136 --> 01:36:51,015
But, it lets citizens
do the same.
1588
01:36:51,681 --> 01:36:54,025
Governments are more powerful
and more vulnerable
1589
01:36:54,183 --> 01:36:55,730
at exactly the same time.
1590
01:36:56,185 --> 01:36:57,482
The fight on our hands is
1591
01:36:57,562 --> 01:37:00,941
who gets to control the Internet,
who gets to control information.
1592
01:37:02,275 --> 01:37:05,620
Hello. This is a
classified message from Anonymous.
1593
01:37:05,903 --> 01:37:08,622
After numerous attacks on the
truth-spilling platform of WikiLeaks,
1594
01:37:08,698 --> 01:37:10,700
ANONYMOUS hacker
collective video
1595
01:37:10,783 --> 01:37:12,501
including the shutdown
of its financing,
1596
01:37:12,577 --> 01:37:14,295
we have already
made it very clear
1597
01:37:14,370 --> 01:37:17,044
that we will fight for freedom
of speech and the free press.
1598
01:37:17,457 --> 01:37:18,754
We are Anonymous.
1599
01:37:18,833 --> 01:37:19,959
We are legion.
1600
01:37:20,043 --> 01:37:21,386
We do not forgive.
1601
01:37:21,461 --> 01:37:23,008
We do not forget.
1602
01:37:23,087 --> 01:37:25,931
In response to the
financial blockade on WikiLeaks,
1603
01:37:26,007 --> 01:37:29,602
the hacker collective Anonymous
launched cyber attacks,
1604
01:37:29,677 --> 01:37:32,931
taking down the websites of
VISA, MasterCard, and PayPal.
1605
01:37:34,599 --> 01:37:36,272
Free Julian Assange!
1606
01:37:36,476 --> 01:37:37,773
Free Bradley Manning!
1607
01:37:37,935 --> 01:37:39,278
End the war.
1608
01:37:40,688 --> 01:37:42,281
Off the road, please!
1609
01:37:42,815 --> 01:37:44,112
Off the road.
1610
01:37:47,028 --> 01:37:48,075
Political prisoner!
1611
01:37:48,154 --> 01:37:49,201
You've been
warned already!
1612
01:37:50,448 --> 01:37:51,449
We love you!
1613
01:37:53,701 --> 01:37:55,874
Free speech!
1614
01:37:56,287 --> 01:37:58,631
One week after the
arrest warrant was issued,
1615
01:37:58,748 --> 01:38:01,092
Assange surrendered
to police in London.
1616
01:38:01,167 --> 01:38:02,339
Deemed a flight risk,
1617
01:38:02,460 --> 01:38:05,304
he was ordered held in jail,
pending a bail hearing.
1618
01:38:05,963 --> 01:38:08,682
Many people believe
Mr. Assange to be innocent,
1619
01:38:08,925 --> 01:38:13,806
and many people believe that this
prosecution is politically motivated.
1620
01:38:16,516 --> 01:38:18,985
Assange's arrest
had become a mythic moment,
1621
01:38:19,185 --> 01:38:20,812
but what was really going on?
1622
01:38:22,855 --> 01:38:25,950
Was Sweden acting as an
agent of the United States?
1623
01:38:26,776 --> 01:38:30,497
Would extradition to Sweden mean
a one-way ticket to Guantanamo?
1624
01:38:31,239 --> 01:38:33,958
Or had the mission of
WikiLeaks become confused
1625
01:38:34,158 --> 01:38:37,287
with a private matter
between one man and two women?
1626
01:38:43,167 --> 01:38:45,135
Talk about why
we're altering your appearance
1627
01:38:45,294 --> 01:38:47,342
and filming you in this way.
1628
01:38:47,505 --> 01:38:49,928
The reason I felt it
was important to be obscured
1629
01:38:50,007 --> 01:38:54,353
is mainly because of all
the threats I've received.
1630
01:38:55,263 --> 01:38:58,688
And I know that different
media have published my face
1631
01:38:58,850 --> 01:39:00,102
without my consent.
1632
01:39:00,268 --> 01:39:01,770
And a lot of online
communities
1633
01:39:01,936 --> 01:39:05,031
started to have wild
speculations about who I was
1634
01:39:05,106 --> 01:39:06,858
and who the other girl was.
1635
01:39:08,526 --> 01:39:10,904
I feel that the less
my face is shown
1636
01:39:11,028 --> 01:39:13,372
and the less people
can recognize me,
1637
01:39:13,448 --> 01:39:14,540
the safer I will be.
1638
01:39:15,658 --> 01:39:17,331
Anna has been
advised not to talk
1639
01:39:17,493 --> 01:39:20,542
about any of the details of her
sexual encounter with Assange
1640
01:39:20,705 --> 01:39:22,924
until the legal case
has been resolved.
1641
01:39:23,207 --> 01:39:26,336
But there are a few facts
on which everyone agrees.
1642
01:39:27,086 --> 01:39:30,090
An organizer for a WikiLeaks
seminar in Stockholm,
1643
01:39:30,214 --> 01:39:34,344
Anna invited Julian to stay at her
apartment while she was out of town.
1644
01:39:34,510 --> 01:39:36,888
Then she decided
to come back early.
1645
01:39:39,223 --> 01:39:40,600
The following day
at the seminar,
1646
01:39:40,766 --> 01:39:43,485
Julian was approached by
another WikiLeaks volunteer.
1647
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:46,522
Her name was Sofia.
1648
01:39:48,524 --> 01:39:50,572
Sofia wanted to see Julian,
wanted to touch Julian
1649
01:39:50,693 --> 01:39:52,161
wanted to be close to Julian.
1650
01:39:53,237 --> 01:39:54,830
Honestly, I think
1651
01:39:55,907 --> 01:39:57,204
he was a rock star
1652
01:39:57,575 --> 01:39:59,873
and he was picking the fruit.
1653
01:40:00,244 --> 01:40:02,918
The truth is the
first casualty of war.
1654
01:40:03,247 --> 01:40:04,749
One week after the seminar
1655
01:40:04,874 --> 01:40:06,751
Anna called me
and said, "Donald..."
1656
01:40:06,876 --> 01:40:09,095
"I was very proud to have
the hottest man on the planet"
1657
01:40:09,212 --> 01:40:11,590
"in my apartment,
in my bed even."
1658
01:40:11,672 --> 01:40:13,674
"But then something happened
I didn't like."
1659
01:40:13,758 --> 01:40:15,635
"He tore the condom."
1660
01:40:16,302 --> 01:40:17,929
"I feel very uncomfortable
about it."
1661
01:40:18,846 --> 01:40:21,725
And then she told me
Sofia called her
1662
01:40:21,807 --> 01:40:23,525
about the same thing.
1663
01:40:23,601 --> 01:40:27,481
She was very concerned
she's pregnant or catch HIV
1664
01:40:27,563 --> 01:40:30,157
because Julian had sex
with her without a condom.
1665
01:40:30,650 --> 01:40:33,073
They said if Julian
takes an HIV test
1666
01:40:33,528 --> 01:40:34,780
we won't go to the police.
1667
01:40:35,238 --> 01:40:37,616
I tried actually
to tell his friends
1668
01:40:37,782 --> 01:40:41,787
that we can get this over
with fast and with no fuss
1669
01:40:42,078 --> 01:40:45,503
because I really didn't want
this to be in the papers.
1670
01:40:46,082 --> 01:40:49,427
But he chose to make
a big deal out of it.
1671
01:40:50,545 --> 01:40:53,219
Julian had repeatedly
refused to have the test.
1672
01:40:53,381 --> 01:40:56,260
When he had finally changed his mind
and agreed to, it was too late.
1673
01:40:56,342 --> 01:40:58,344
By that time, the women had
already got too frustrated
1674
01:40:58,427 --> 01:41:00,350
and too angry with
Julian's refusals,
1675
01:41:00,429 --> 01:41:01,772
and they'd gone
to the police.
1676
01:41:04,100 --> 01:41:07,070
They found out that
they were mutual lovers of mine,
1677
01:41:07,228 --> 01:41:09,981
they had had unprotected sex,
and they got into a tizzy
1678
01:41:10,147 --> 01:41:14,823
about whether there was possibility
of sexually transmitted diseases.
1679
01:41:15,152 --> 01:41:17,154
Ridiculous thing to go
to the police about.
1680
01:41:18,489 --> 01:41:22,585
When the women went to the police
to try to force Assange to take an HIV test,
1681
01:41:22,827 --> 01:41:26,081
their testimony raised questions
about possible criminal charges.
1682
01:41:26,914 --> 01:41:30,418
The police, on their own,
decided to investigate further.
1683
01:41:31,335 --> 01:41:34,214
The refusal to use a condom
took center stage.
1684
01:41:34,338 --> 01:41:38,343
If Assange had HIV and knew it,
it could be a case for assault.
1685
01:41:39,510 --> 01:41:42,229
“...Assange... firmly holding
arms and prying her legs open...”
1686
01:41:42,305 --> 01:41:44,399
“Anna is convinced that Assange...
broke the condom...”
1687
01:41:44,473 --> 01:41:47,693
“...and...continued having sex with
a subsequent ejaculation.”
1688
01:41:47,852 --> 01:41:50,526
The testimony of the women
raised another issue.
1689
01:41:51,022 --> 01:41:53,024
Did Assange refuse
to use a condom
1690
01:41:53,149 --> 01:41:55,322
because he wanted to
make the women pregnant?
1691
01:41:55,401 --> 01:41:58,826
Some pointed to the fact that he
had already fathered four children
1692
01:41:58,904 --> 01:42:01,373
with four different women
around the world.
1693
01:42:02,533 --> 01:42:03,830
This is a man
who's elusive,
1694
01:42:03,993 --> 01:42:07,497
he's always flying around the
place, he doesn't have any roots.
1695
01:42:07,663 --> 01:42:08,835
And he's got a number
of kids.
1696
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:11,042
There might be some sort
of primary impulse in him
1697
01:42:11,167 --> 01:42:14,216
to want to just reproduce,
1698
01:42:14,378 --> 01:42:16,972
to want to have some sort
of bedrock in his life.
1699
01:42:17,048 --> 01:42:19,392
This is the ultimate
digital man,
1700
01:42:19,508 --> 01:42:21,476
and actually you can't just
live in a digital world.
1701
01:42:23,054 --> 01:42:26,149
"...was woken by the feeling
of penetrating her."
1702
01:42:26,223 --> 01:42:29,102
"He was already inside of her
and she let him continue."
1703
01:42:29,185 --> 01:42:32,189
"She immediately asked 'Are you wearing
anything' and he replied 'You."'
1704
01:42:32,271 --> 01:42:35,366
I have never said
that this is a honey trap.
1705
01:42:35,733 --> 01:42:38,703
I have never said that
it is not a honey trap.
1706
01:42:40,988 --> 01:42:45,994
He was claiming that he
didn't know who we were,
1707
01:42:46,077 --> 01:42:48,671
and that's not true.
1708
01:42:48,829 --> 01:42:50,672
He knew very well
who we were,
1709
01:42:51,248 --> 01:42:54,343
and he knew we were going
to the police before we went.
1710
01:42:55,336 --> 01:42:57,259
There are
powerful interests
1711
01:42:57,421 --> 01:43:01,847
that have incentives
to promote these smears.
1712
01:43:05,388 --> 01:43:08,733
What Julian did was to start
the little snowball rolling downhill,
1713
01:43:08,891 --> 01:43:10,484
that this was some
kind of a conspiracy.
1714
01:43:10,643 --> 01:43:12,190
And that was all he
had to do at that stage.
1715
01:43:12,269 --> 01:43:14,647
It rolled and it
picked up speed.
1716
01:43:14,730 --> 01:43:19,987
A lot of rumors were
made up and pure fantasies.
1717
01:43:20,069 --> 01:43:24,074
The wildest story of all
was that I was a CIA agent.
1718
01:43:25,199 --> 01:43:27,122
And I was like,
I couldn't really believe
1719
01:43:27,284 --> 01:43:30,128
that anyone would believe
such a weird story.
1720
01:43:32,665 --> 01:43:33,712
From outside I can understand
1721
01:43:33,791 --> 01:43:35,134
it must be a conspiracy.
1722
01:43:35,292 --> 01:43:37,386
But, I was in
the middle of it.
1723
01:43:37,461 --> 01:43:38,929
Sorry to say it was not
1724
01:43:39,004 --> 01:43:41,348
two girls in short skirts
1725
01:43:41,465 --> 01:43:43,718
sent in from
the CIA or whatever.
1726
01:43:44,176 --> 01:43:47,305
They were just ordinary,
nice girls
1727
01:43:48,472 --> 01:43:51,191
admiring Julian and WikiLeaks.
1728
01:43:51,726 --> 01:43:54,946
You've been very
careful not to say anything.
1729
01:43:55,146 --> 01:43:56,489
Why?
1730
01:43:57,148 --> 01:44:01,324
Because this is a legal case,
and not a public debate.
1731
01:44:01,527 --> 01:44:03,029
Sweden!
Shame on you!
1732
01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:06,540
Sweden! Shame on you!
1733
01:44:06,866 --> 01:44:11,121
The way Julian's private affairs
have been conflated with WikiLeaks,
1734
01:44:11,328 --> 01:44:12,830
I find quite troubling.
1735
01:44:13,122 --> 01:44:17,468
There was at one point an effort to
try and separate the two issues.
1736
01:44:17,626 --> 01:44:18,798
That was reversed
1737
01:44:18,961 --> 01:44:22,090
and the decision was made to
push the two causes together.
1738
01:44:22,757 --> 01:44:24,430
And so it just...
1739
01:44:24,633 --> 01:44:26,510
How was that reversed?
Was there a meeting?
1740
01:44:26,677 --> 01:44:29,601
Was there... Or it just
slid into that direction?
1741
01:44:29,847 --> 01:44:31,190
Julian reversed it.
1742
01:44:31,307 --> 01:44:32,354
Explicitly.
1743
01:44:32,516 --> 01:44:36,316
He very much wanted
what happened in Sweden
1744
01:44:36,479 --> 01:44:38,857
to be seen as part of
the transparency agenda.
1745
01:44:39,523 --> 01:44:40,524
And it worked.
1746
01:44:40,983 --> 01:44:45,614
I'm here because the U.S. government
and the Swedish authorities
1747
01:44:45,696 --> 01:44:47,698
are trying to gag the truth.
1748
01:44:47,865 --> 01:44:50,994
These charges are completely
politically motivated
1749
01:44:51,118 --> 01:44:54,213
and have nothing whatsoever
to do with the prosecution.
1750
01:44:54,330 --> 01:44:56,753
It's a persecution,
not a prosecution.
1751
01:44:58,793 --> 01:45:01,262
What is so extraordinary
is the way in which the two women
1752
01:45:01,420 --> 01:45:03,263
have been either
completely forgotten,
1753
01:45:03,422 --> 01:45:05,766
as though they had
no rights here at all,
1754
01:45:05,841 --> 01:45:09,345
or caricatured, vilified.
1755
01:45:09,428 --> 01:45:11,726
Web post by Assange supporter
1756
01:45:11,806 --> 01:45:13,149
I've been through
two years
1757
01:45:13,224 --> 01:45:15,977
of different kinds
of abuses.
1758
01:45:16,143 --> 01:45:17,690
People coming to my house,
1759
01:45:17,895 --> 01:45:21,149
people threatening,
or questioning
1760
01:45:21,357 --> 01:45:23,985
or following my friends
and family.
1761
01:45:24,360 --> 01:45:25,532
Some death threats,
1762
01:45:25,694 --> 01:45:31,167
but mostly sexual threats
that I deserve to get raped.
1763
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:37,248
A lot of Twitter
accounts and blogs
1764
01:45:37,331 --> 01:45:39,754
that are very close
to WikiLeaks
1765
01:45:39,834 --> 01:45:44,260
have been publishing things that
I know Julian knows is not true.
1766
01:45:46,799 --> 01:45:50,520
They admire him very much, and he
could have easily stopped that.
1767
01:45:52,096 --> 01:45:55,100
There was an enormous
amount of hype and misinformation
1768
01:45:55,182 --> 01:45:58,436
and bullshit that came out of
Julian Assange's supporters.
1769
01:45:58,602 --> 01:46:00,650
And the more that
people realize
1770
01:46:00,813 --> 01:46:02,941
that they were lied
to by Julian,
1771
01:46:03,190 --> 01:46:06,444
the less moral and
political authority he has.
1772
01:46:06,610 --> 01:46:08,362
He's supposed to
be about truth.
1773
01:46:08,487 --> 01:46:09,989
Information should be free!
1774
01:46:10,114 --> 01:46:11,707
This
is not democracy!
1775
01:46:11,866 --> 01:46:13,243
We want free speech!
1776
01:46:13,409 --> 01:46:14,661
Hands off WikiLeaks!
1777
01:46:14,827 --> 01:46:16,170
We want free speech!
1778
01:46:16,328 --> 01:46:17,796
Hands off WikiLeaks!
1779
01:46:17,955 --> 01:46:19,628
What do we want?
Free speech!
1780
01:46:19,790 --> 01:46:21,508
When do we want it?
Now!
1781
01:46:23,252 --> 01:46:25,004
Free Julian Assange!
1782
01:46:25,296 --> 01:46:29,267
Free Julian Assange!
1783
01:46:40,728 --> 01:46:43,481
Good evening, and welcome
to this fundraising dinner
1784
01:46:43,647 --> 01:46:44,990
for freedom of speech.
1785
01:46:46,442 --> 01:46:49,321
While I cannot be with
you in person this evening
1786
01:46:49,403 --> 01:46:51,405
because I am under
house arrest,
1787
01:46:52,072 --> 01:46:54,996
I can at least be
with you in spirit.
1788
01:46:59,622 --> 01:47:02,421
After nine days, Assange
was released from prison,
1789
01:47:02,499 --> 01:47:06,094
his supporters putting up
over $300, 000 in bail.
1790
01:47:06,503 --> 01:47:09,052
While Julian appealed
his extradition to Sweden,
1791
01:47:09,131 --> 01:47:12,886
a local journalist named Vaughan Smith
offered Julian a place to stay.
1792
01:47:13,928 --> 01:47:17,933
Ellingham Hall is
125 miles northeast of London.
1793
01:47:18,515 --> 01:47:21,985
It's a house that's been in my
family for 250 years or so.
1794
01:47:22,686 --> 01:47:25,109
We've got livestock, we've
got cattle, we've got sheep.
1795
01:47:25,648 --> 01:47:27,650
We've got game, obviously,
pheasant, partridge.
1796
01:47:27,733 --> 01:47:29,280
We shoot them and eat them.
1797
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:39,958
Ellingham Hall
is a lovely place,
1798
01:47:40,037 --> 01:47:42,131
but it's right in
the middle of nowhere,
1799
01:47:42,247 --> 01:47:45,751
and we'd packed it with
about 15-20 people.
1800
01:47:47,002 --> 01:47:50,347
It's a sort of cross between Big
Brother and a spy thriller.
1801
01:47:56,929 --> 01:47:59,432
Part of Vaughan's plan
to keep the thing civilized
1802
01:47:59,515 --> 01:48:01,768
was setting strict rules
around meals,
1803
01:48:02,142 --> 01:48:06,989
and so Vaughan's very lovely housekeeper
would cook for us three times a day.
1804
01:48:07,272 --> 01:48:09,115
Even port served at dinner,
1805
01:48:09,316 --> 01:48:12,069
which was passed to the left, of course.
1806
01:48:12,653 --> 01:48:14,121
And now we are
in a position
1807
01:48:14,238 --> 01:48:15,740
WikiLeaks fundraising video
1808
01:48:15,823 --> 01:48:18,417
where we are being
most aggressively censored
1809
01:48:18,575 --> 01:48:22,000
by the Washington establishment
of the United States.
1810
01:48:22,121 --> 01:48:23,839
To raise money
for his legal defense,
1811
01:48:24,123 --> 01:48:26,842
Assange began selling
a compelling package:
1812
01:48:26,959 --> 01:48:28,427
Dinner with Julian.
1813
01:48:29,294 --> 01:48:30,921
In exchange for a donation,
1814
01:48:31,005 --> 01:48:33,474
WikiLeaks would provide a
link to a video of Julian
1815
01:48:33,590 --> 01:48:35,388
to be played at home
on a laptop,
1816
01:48:35,467 --> 01:48:37,970
placed on a tablemat set
for the absent hacker.
1817
01:48:38,095 --> 01:48:43,443
And together, we make the world into a
place where all our dreams can play.
1818
01:48:43,934 --> 01:48:46,107
This
Dinner for Free Speech
1819
01:48:46,270 --> 01:48:49,945
was in fact dinner for Julian's
sex offense defense fund.
1820
01:48:50,649 --> 01:48:54,074
No one knows now whether
money given to WikiLeaks
1821
01:48:54,153 --> 01:48:56,326
is going to Julian
or elsewhere.
1822
01:49:00,451 --> 01:49:02,954
Julian's legal troubles
made him more famous than ever,
1823
01:49:03,620 --> 01:49:07,966
but they also intensified his differences
with his former media partners.
1824
01:49:08,125 --> 01:49:09,877
They defended his
right to publish
1825
01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:12,463
but began to turn
on Assange himself.
1826
01:49:13,297 --> 01:49:15,800
I've been close enough
to see the
1827
01:49:16,300 --> 01:49:17,973
wasps around the jam here.
1828
01:49:18,302 --> 01:49:19,554
He stirred the nest
1829
01:49:19,636 --> 01:49:22,230
and they've come to sting him rather
more than perhaps he expected.
1830
01:49:22,806 --> 01:49:25,434
In a January
piece, you described Assange as
1831
01:49:25,517 --> 01:49:28,191
"eccentric, " "elusive, "
"manipulative, " "volatile, "
1832
01:49:28,353 --> 01:49:30,902
"openly hostile, " "coy, "
an "office geek,"
1833
01:49:31,065 --> 01:49:34,194
a "derelict, " "arrogant,"
"thin-skinned, " "conspiratorial, "
1834
01:49:34,359 --> 01:49:35,576
and "oddly credulous. "
1835
01:49:35,736 --> 01:49:39,240
Um, is that any way for a journalist
to talk about his sources?
1836
01:49:39,323 --> 01:49:40,996
He looked like
a bag lady coming in.
1837
01:49:41,075 --> 01:49:43,669
He was wearing kind of
a dingy khaki sports coat,
1838
01:49:43,827 --> 01:49:44,953
old tennis shoes,
1839
01:49:45,079 --> 01:49:47,377
with socks that were kind of
collapsing around his ankles.
1840
01:49:47,498 --> 01:49:49,671
And he clearly hadn't
bathed in several days.
1841
01:49:50,375 --> 01:49:53,504
The New York Times...
The hypocrisy of this act.
1842
01:49:53,670 --> 01:49:54,762
They wanted the material.
1843
01:49:54,838 --> 01:49:58,183
They were fully complicit in the
publication of the material.
1844
01:49:58,258 --> 01:50:01,558
But as soon as the heat came on,
they wanted to wash their hands.
1845
01:50:05,057 --> 01:50:08,812
I tried over many months to get
an on-camera interview with Assange.
1846
01:50:09,561 --> 01:50:11,313
After meetings and emails,
1847
01:50:11,396 --> 01:50:13,194
I was finally summoned
to the Norfolk mansion
1848
01:50:13,273 --> 01:50:15,526
for a six-hour negotiation.
1849
01:50:16,068 --> 01:50:17,536
Julian wanted money.
1850
01:50:17,611 --> 01:50:20,080
He said that the market rate
for an interview with him
1851
01:50:20,197 --> 01:50:21,915
was one million dollars.
1852
01:50:22,032 --> 01:50:24,535
When I declined,
he offered an alternative,
1853
01:50:24,618 --> 01:50:28,248
perhaps I would spy on my other
interviews and report back to him.
1854
01:50:28,372 --> 01:50:30,374
I couldn't do that either.
1855
01:50:30,457 --> 01:50:34,553
During his time under house arrest, he
had become more secretive and paranoid.
1856
01:50:35,045 --> 01:50:36,718
He railed against
his enemies,
1857
01:50:36,880 --> 01:50:39,053
and I knew that he had tried
to get all his followers
1858
01:50:39,133 --> 01:50:41,135
to sign a non-disclosure
agreement.
1859
01:50:41,260 --> 01:50:42,978
The penalty for leaking,
1860
01:50:43,053 --> 01:50:44,805
$ 19 million.
1861
01:50:45,848 --> 01:50:47,771
I'd found this
a little bit awkward,
1862
01:50:48,058 --> 01:50:51,062
being asked by
a transparency organization
1863
01:50:51,228 --> 01:50:53,151
to sign exactly
the kind of document
1864
01:50:53,230 --> 01:50:56,279
used to silence whistle-blowers
around the world.
1865
01:50:57,234 --> 01:50:59,953
Seemed pretty troubling.
And so I refused.
1866
01:51:01,613 --> 01:51:05,413
All organizations
face two possible paths.
1867
01:51:05,617 --> 01:51:09,417
They can be open,
honest, just,
1868
01:51:09,788 --> 01:51:13,588
or they can be closed, unjust,
1869
01:51:14,001 --> 01:51:16,003
and therefore not successful.
1870
01:51:18,172 --> 01:51:21,096
Had the secret-leaker
become the secret-keeper?
1871
01:51:21,175 --> 01:51:23,553
More and more fond
of mysteries.
1872
01:51:23,677 --> 01:51:27,181
The biggest mystery of all was
the role of the United States.
1873
01:51:27,264 --> 01:51:29,687
Over two years
after the first leak,
1874
01:51:29,766 --> 01:51:32,394
no charges have been
filed by the U.S.
1875
01:51:34,188 --> 01:51:37,032
Assange claimed that the U.
S. was biding its time,
1876
01:51:37,107 --> 01:51:39,155
waiting for him
to go to Sweden.
1877
01:51:39,568 --> 01:51:41,070
But there was no proof.
1878
01:51:41,153 --> 01:51:43,827
In fact, members of
Assange's legal team
1879
01:51:43,989 --> 01:51:45,332
admitted that
it would be easier
1880
01:51:45,449 --> 01:51:48,578
for the U.S. to extradite
Assange from Britain.
1881
01:51:48,911 --> 01:51:51,130
Britain is the
one that's done this special deal
1882
01:51:51,205 --> 01:51:52,707
with the United States
on extradition.
1883
01:51:52,789 --> 01:51:54,883
But Sweden is
particularly strong
1884
01:51:54,958 --> 01:52:00,931
in seeing as sacrosanct that
business about handing people over.
1885
01:52:01,006 --> 01:52:03,680
They would hold to that perhaps
stronger than Britain would.
1886
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:06,474
We think we've got a special
relationship with the United States.
1887
01:52:07,721 --> 01:52:09,723
Despite that
special relationship,
1888
01:52:09,890 --> 01:52:12,359
Assange desperately
fought extradition to Sweden
1889
01:52:12,684 --> 01:52:13,981
and lost every appeal.
1890
01:52:14,061 --> 01:52:15,654
Julian,
we are with you!
1891
01:52:16,230 --> 01:52:17,982
His legal battle
drained his finances
1892
01:52:18,148 --> 01:52:20,992
and trapped him in a family
farm for over a year.
1893
01:52:22,611 --> 01:52:26,832
Hoped for funding didn't come, and
WikiLeaks suspended operations.
1894
01:52:26,949 --> 01:52:29,828
His international organization
had blown apart.
1895
01:52:31,119 --> 01:52:34,339
In Berlin, Daniel Domscheit-Berg
quit the organization.
1896
01:52:35,123 --> 01:52:38,673
So did the mysterious figure who had
built the secret submission system.
1897
01:52:39,378 --> 01:52:42,473
Assange no longer had
a drop box for new leaks.
1898
01:52:43,131 --> 01:52:47,432
In London, journalist Heather
Brooke was leaked unredacted copies
1899
01:52:47,511 --> 01:52:50,515
of all of the State Department
cables by a WikiLeaks insider.
1900
01:52:51,265 --> 01:52:54,360
There was the initial people
that Julian gave the information to
1901
01:52:54,434 --> 01:52:56,528
and then, how many people
did they give it to,
1902
01:52:56,603 --> 01:52:58,276
and then how many people
did they give it to?
1903
01:52:58,939 --> 01:53:02,193
Some of the cables also
leaked to a European dictator
1904
01:53:02,276 --> 01:53:06,031
who used them to target dissidents
and suppress free speech.
1905
01:53:06,154 --> 01:53:08,828
This is at the core
of where things went wrong,
1906
01:53:09,616 --> 01:53:12,870
and where ultimately
WikiLeaks has lost control
1907
01:53:12,953 --> 01:53:15,581
over the spread of
these documents.
1908
01:53:16,248 --> 01:53:19,548
In the end, all of the
cables leaked across the Internet
1909
01:53:19,626 --> 01:53:22,300
on mirrored versions
of WikiLeaks. org.
1910
01:53:25,924 --> 01:53:28,552
All Julian had left
was his celebrity.
1911
01:53:30,637 --> 01:53:31,854
How you doing,
Mr. Assange?
1912
01:53:31,930 --> 01:53:33,432
That's my personal
information
1913
01:53:33,515 --> 01:53:35,483
and you have no right
to know about it!
1914
01:53:36,310 --> 01:53:40,986
Julian extended his brand by hosting
a chat show for Russian state television.
1915
01:53:41,189 --> 01:53:42,441
Where are you?
In England?
1916
01:53:42,524 --> 01:53:46,779
lam in England, under house
arrest now for 500 days.
1917
01:53:47,154 --> 01:53:48,497
Five hundred days.
1918
01:53:48,697 --> 01:53:52,793
One of his guests was Rafael
Correa, the president of Ecuador.
1919
01:53:54,995 --> 01:53:56,338
Welcome to the club
of the persecuted!
1920
01:53:56,455 --> 01:53:58,048
Thank you, President Correa.
1921
01:53:58,123 --> 01:54:00,000
A month after
the program aired,
1922
01:54:00,083 --> 01:54:03,007
Assange sought asylum
from his former TV guest.
1923
01:54:09,259 --> 01:54:12,559
This morning the sun
came up on a different world,
1924
01:54:12,637 --> 01:54:15,311
and a courageous Latin American
nation took a stand for justice.
1925
01:54:15,432 --> 01:54:17,685
Embassy of Ecuador
London, England
1926
01:54:18,643 --> 01:54:20,395
It was
an ironic choice.
1927
01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:23,153
Ecuador had a record of
putting journalists in prison
1928
01:54:24,983 --> 01:54:28,487
and had been charged with
corruption in a WikiLeaks cable.
1929
01:54:28,612 --> 01:54:33,118
The United States must renounce
its witch hunt against WikiLeaks.
1930
01:54:34,951 --> 01:54:37,670
Despite no proof
of a US-Sweden plot,
1931
01:54:37,788 --> 01:54:40,007
Ecuador granted him asylum.
1932
01:54:40,123 --> 01:54:44,253
The British government pledged to arrest him
if he left the tight confines of the embassy,
1933
01:54:44,336 --> 01:54:46,964
so Assange prepared
for a long stay.
1934
01:54:49,925 --> 01:54:51,302
I saw the signs
1935
01:54:51,426 --> 01:54:54,396
"Free Bradley Manning"
and "Free Julian Assange, "
1936
01:54:54,471 --> 01:54:55,848
and I think it's ridiculous.
1937
01:54:56,264 --> 01:54:58,938
These two cases have nothing
to do with each other.
1938
01:54:59,893 --> 01:55:01,611
Julian, he's not
even imprisoned.
1939
01:55:01,895 --> 01:55:05,991
He has locked himself up
to avoid coming to Sweden
1940
01:55:06,066 --> 01:55:10,162
to answer a few pretty
simple questions.
1941
01:55:15,575 --> 01:55:19,296
There is a phenomenon
called Noble Cause Corruption.
1942
01:55:19,996 --> 01:55:22,840
Essentially,
you do things which
1943
01:55:23,041 --> 01:55:27,421
if anyone else did you would
recognize aren't okay, aren't right.
1944
01:55:27,963 --> 01:55:30,557
But because you know
you're a good guy,
1945
01:55:30,632 --> 01:55:31,758
it's different for you.
1946
01:55:33,301 --> 01:55:35,303
I suppose you can't
accuse Julian
1947
01:55:35,387 --> 01:55:38,357
of not setting out from
the beginning what he may do.
1948
01:55:38,432 --> 01:55:39,900
Mendax by name,
1949
01:55:39,975 --> 01:55:41,602
Mendax by nature.
1950
01:55:46,106 --> 01:55:48,484
The same
extraordinary personality
1951
01:55:48,567 --> 01:55:52,197
which conceived of
and created WikiLeaks
1952
01:55:52,279 --> 01:55:54,532
is also the same personality
1953
01:55:54,614 --> 01:55:57,584
that has effectively
destroyed WikiLeaks.
1954
01:55:57,701 --> 01:56:00,875
WikiLeaks has become
what it detests
1955
01:56:00,954 --> 01:56:05,380
and what it actually tried
to rid the world of.
1956
01:56:07,461 --> 01:56:11,967
We must get away from this understanding
that we see Julian as a savior,
1957
01:56:12,382 --> 01:56:15,761
as some new guru,
some new hero,
1958
01:56:15,886 --> 01:56:17,980
some new pop star
or whatever,
1959
01:56:18,054 --> 01:56:19,556
that's going to
change all of it.
1960
01:56:21,266 --> 01:56:23,735
The credit is undue.
1961
01:56:23,810 --> 01:56:26,654
Everybody celebrating Julian
as a whistle-blower.
1962
01:56:26,730 --> 01:56:28,107
He's not.
1963
01:56:28,231 --> 01:56:30,575
Bradley Manning might
have been a whistle-blower,
1964
01:56:30,650 --> 01:56:33,574
and, if he was,
he is the courageous guy.
1965
01:56:34,279 --> 01:56:36,247
He is the one
that took all the risk
1966
01:56:36,323 --> 01:56:39,827
and in the end now has...
ls suffering.
1967
01:56:44,039 --> 01:56:45,757
Free Bradley Manning!
1968
01:56:48,293 --> 01:56:50,921
After his arrest, Manning
had been held for two months
1969
01:56:51,087 --> 01:56:53,761
in an eight-by-eight
foot cage in Kuwait.
1970
01:56:54,716 --> 01:56:58,266
Then he was transferred to the Marine
Corps brig in Quantico, Virginia.
1971
01:56:58,386 --> 01:57:00,855
Though Manning had not been
tried for any crime,
1972
01:57:00,931 --> 01:57:04,105
he was kept in solitary
confinement for nearly a year.
1973
01:57:04,226 --> 01:57:06,228
Shame! Sit yo' ass down!
1974
01:57:07,103 --> 01:57:10,198
Bradley Manning, the alleged
leaker is currently sitting in prison
1975
01:57:10,273 --> 01:57:11,946
2010 Hackers on
Planet Earth conference
1976
01:57:12,067 --> 01:57:13,364
and he could be locked up
for the rest of his life.
1977
01:57:13,443 --> 01:57:14,615
How do you feel about that?
1978
01:57:15,862 --> 01:57:16,863
He could be tortured.
1979
01:57:16,947 --> 01:57:19,291
I think that it's
a little bit ludicrous
1980
01:57:19,407 --> 01:57:22,286
to say that Bradley Manning's
going to be tortured.
1981
01:57:22,369 --> 01:57:25,873
We don't do that
to our citizens.
1982
01:57:27,415 --> 01:57:28,632
Free Bradley Manning!
1983
01:57:28,750 --> 01:57:29,797
A high-ranking general
1984
01:57:29,918 --> 01:57:34,640
authorized Manning's placement in
solitary confinement on suicide watch
1985
01:57:34,714 --> 01:57:36,716
against the protest
of prison doctors.
1986
01:57:37,551 --> 01:57:39,770
His clothes and blankets
were taken from him.
1987
01:57:39,844 --> 01:57:42,142
Lights in his cell
were always on.
1988
01:57:42,222 --> 01:57:45,442
When he questioned his treatment,
guards took away his glasses
1989
01:57:45,517 --> 01:57:48,396
and forced him to stand naked
during morning roll call.
1990
01:57:49,020 --> 01:57:52,024
At night, guards kept him
cold and woke him frequently,
1991
01:57:52,107 --> 01:57:56,362
a practice that recalled the sleep
deprivation program at Guantanamo.
1992
01:57:56,778 --> 01:57:58,496
Manning's supporters
speculated
1993
01:57:58,572 --> 01:58:00,700
that the U.S. government
was trying to push Manning
1994
01:58:00,782 --> 01:58:03,626
to turn on Assange
and implicate him in a crime.
1995
01:58:05,161 --> 01:58:06,754
What was
your reaction about
1996
01:58:06,830 --> 01:58:08,377
Bradley Manning's
treatment at Quantico?
1997
01:58:08,456 --> 01:58:11,710
It seemed to me that
sleep deprivation and nudity,
1998
01:58:11,835 --> 01:58:14,634
these were what I would call
"enhanced interrogation techniques."
1999
01:58:14,754 --> 01:58:17,633
They were being practiced on an individual.
No.
2000
01:58:17,716 --> 01:58:19,468
Look, I don't know
the specifics.
2001
01:58:19,551 --> 01:58:22,020
I don't know the rules
of confinement
2002
01:58:22,095 --> 01:58:23,768
for the Marine brig
at Quantico.
2003
01:58:23,930 --> 01:58:26,809
But Bob Gates is an
incredibly honorable man.
2004
01:58:26,891 --> 01:58:30,236
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mike
Mullen is an incredibly honorable man.
2005
01:58:30,353 --> 01:58:32,151
I defer very much
to their judgment
2006
01:58:32,230 --> 01:58:34,904
that whatever was done
was appropriate.
2007
01:58:39,696 --> 01:58:42,700
The treatment that
he was receiving at Quantico,
2008
01:58:42,866 --> 01:58:45,039
the level of solitary
confinement,
2009
01:58:45,201 --> 01:58:48,171
the fact that his clothes
were taken away at night,
2010
01:58:48,246 --> 01:58:52,046
it was inconsistent with our
values and our interests.
2011
01:58:52,167 --> 01:58:55,592
It was making Bradley Manning
a far more sympathetic figure
2012
01:58:55,837 --> 01:58:56,884
than I see him.
2013
01:58:57,047 --> 01:59:00,847
When I was asked about it
in a forum at MIT,
2014
01:59:01,843 --> 01:59:03,390
I gave a candid answer.
2015
01:59:03,553 --> 01:59:05,897
State Department
spokesman P.J. Crowley
2016
01:59:06,014 --> 01:59:09,735
said the treatment of Bradley
Manning by the Pentagon
2017
01:59:09,851 --> 01:59:12,980
is "ridiculous and
counterproductive and stupid,"
2018
01:59:13,063 --> 01:59:14,690
and I'm wondering
if you agree with that.
2019
01:59:15,065 --> 01:59:16,237
Uh...
2020
01:59:16,358 --> 01:59:17,826
I have actually
asked the Pentagon
2021
01:59:17,901 --> 01:59:22,247
whether or not the procedures
that have been taken
2022
01:59:22,489 --> 01:59:26,494
in terms of his confinement
are appropriate
2023
01:59:26,743 --> 01:59:29,667
and are meeting
our basic standards.
2024
01:59:30,497 --> 01:59:32,499
They assure me
that they are.
2025
01:59:32,874 --> 01:59:34,217
I was appalled at that.
2026
01:59:34,376 --> 01:59:38,381
I was appalled at that with respect
to the President's responsibility
2027
01:59:38,546 --> 01:59:39,889
as Commander-in-Chief.
2028
01:59:40,173 --> 01:59:41,425
Any commander...
2029
01:59:41,508 --> 01:59:44,182
Any commander knows
that first and foremost
2030
01:59:44,344 --> 01:59:47,018
he or she is responsible
for the well-being
2031
01:59:47,222 --> 01:59:49,816
of each and every one
of their soldiers,
2032
01:59:49,974 --> 01:59:52,397
to include the ones
sitting in the brig.
2033
01:59:52,519 --> 01:59:55,489
I can't go into details
about some of their concerns,
2034
01:59:55,647 --> 01:59:59,652
but some of this has to do with
Private Manning's safety as well.
2035
02:00:01,277 --> 02:00:02,620
Do you disagree
with P.J. Crowley?
2036
02:00:02,821 --> 02:00:05,870
I think I gave you an answer
to the substantive issue.
2037
02:00:06,408 --> 02:00:09,503
Once my comments were brought
to the President of the United States,
2038
02:00:09,703 --> 02:00:11,705
I felt the only thing
I should do is resign.
2039
02:00:12,372 --> 02:00:13,919
I stand by what I said.
2040
02:00:15,125 --> 02:00:16,342
What was unsaid
2041
02:00:16,418 --> 02:00:20,048
was any consideration of holding
Manning's supervisors accountable
2042
02:00:20,130 --> 02:00:23,475
for permitting the greatest security
breach in American history.
2043
02:00:36,479 --> 02:00:40,154
Manning's commanding officer
only received a minor demotion.
2044
02:00:41,151 --> 02:00:44,200
The Army brought 22 charges
against Manning.
2045
02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:46,288
They included
"aiding the enemy,"
2046
02:00:46,364 --> 02:00:49,243
without naming just
who the enemy was.
2047
02:00:49,325 --> 02:00:52,124
For these charges,
Manning faced life in prison,
2048
02:00:52,203 --> 02:00:54,501
and a possible death sentence.
2049
02:00:58,334 --> 02:01:00,086
People who
don't like the leak
2050
02:01:00,170 --> 02:01:03,049
try to say that it was
damaging national security.
2051
02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:05,342
Have you ever seen
any evidence
2052
02:01:05,467 --> 02:01:08,892
that American national security has
been damaged in any way by this?
2053
02:01:10,346 --> 02:01:14,351
And if you look at what the whistle-blower
is saying in that online chat,
2054
02:01:14,476 --> 02:01:15,648
and look at what
he doesn't say.
2055
02:01:16,519 --> 02:01:18,692
He doesn't say,
"I want money. "
2056
02:01:18,772 --> 02:01:21,116
He doesn't say, "I'm going
to go to Russia or China.
2057
02:01:21,191 --> 02:01:23,364
"I'm going to go to al-Qaeda
and give them this stuff."
2058
02:01:23,485 --> 02:01:24,532
It doesn't happen.
2059
02:01:24,611 --> 02:01:30,038
He says, "This is the material that the
people of the world need to have."
2060
02:01:30,116 --> 02:01:32,539
And it was naive to
dump the whole lot
2061
02:01:32,619 --> 02:01:35,042
without thinking ahead about how
that was going to be handled.
2062
02:01:35,288 --> 02:01:37,962
But you don't have to
lock this guy up for decades
2063
02:01:38,041 --> 02:01:40,214
and effectively put him
through forms of torture.
2064
02:01:40,460 --> 02:01:43,555
That's a politically motivated
act of vengeance
2065
02:01:43,630 --> 02:01:45,928
on somebody who hasn't
damaged national security,
2066
02:01:46,007 --> 02:01:47,805
he's caused embarrassment.
2067
02:01:47,884 --> 02:01:48,976
Let's be clear.
2068
02:01:49,594 --> 02:01:55,601
This disclosure is not just an attack
on America's foreign policy interests,
2069
02:01:56,142 --> 02:01:59,191
it is an attack on the
international community.
2070
02:02:01,606 --> 02:02:03,700
The American government
said, "You can't publish this.
2071
02:02:03,775 --> 02:02:08,201
"It's dangerous. It's going to damage
world affairs, diplomacy, etc."
2072
02:02:08,279 --> 02:02:10,031
But then you
publish it anyway,
2073
02:02:10,114 --> 02:02:11,536
and it's for the greater good,
2074
02:02:11,950 --> 02:02:14,123
telling people
what they needed to know.
2075
02:02:15,829 --> 02:02:19,834
The question becomes, does
it matter and what changes?
2076
02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:25,221
I think really we have to say
that something has started,
2077
02:02:25,338 --> 02:02:28,012
and it's not going to be
about WikiLeaks.
2078
02:02:28,091 --> 02:02:31,470
It's going to be about
transparency and accountability,
2079
02:02:32,136 --> 02:02:34,059
and keeping power in check,
2080
02:02:34,138 --> 02:02:36,607
keeping governments
responsible,
2081
02:02:36,683 --> 02:02:39,357
and who cares who does it
as long as someone does.
2082
02:02:40,937 --> 02:02:44,032
Information by its
very nature needs to flow.
2083
02:02:44,440 --> 02:02:48,991
In some regards, withholding information
is trying to repeal the laws of gravity.
2084
02:02:49,195 --> 02:02:50,913
You may succeed for
a short period of time,
2085
02:02:50,989 --> 02:02:53,993
but sooner or later
it's going to break free.
2086
02:02:54,284 --> 02:02:56,537
Now you're
talking just like a hacker.
2087
02:03:00,456 --> 02:03:01,582
I think Manning did
the right thing
2088
02:03:01,666 --> 02:03:03,339
and what you did
you have to live with!
2089
02:03:05,003 --> 02:03:06,095
I think you belong
in Guantanamo!
2090
02:03:07,297 --> 02:03:08,799
Whoa! Okay.
2091
02:03:11,509 --> 02:03:15,764
I care more about Bradley
than many of his supporters do.
2092
02:03:16,097 --> 02:03:19,476
We had a chance to be friends,
however briefly, and...
2093
02:03:22,770 --> 02:03:26,775
He opened up
in a lot of ways
2094
02:03:27,108 --> 02:03:29,952
about his life,
his personal life,
2095
02:03:30,612 --> 02:03:31,955
and
2096
02:03:33,448 --> 02:03:37,169
he did it in a way
that someone only would do
2097
02:03:37,327 --> 02:03:39,796
to someone they
felt they could trust.
2098
02:03:41,122 --> 02:03:44,626
And I had to
betray that trust
2099
02:03:44,792 --> 02:03:46,760
for the sake of
2100
02:03:50,131 --> 02:03:52,850
all of the people
that he put in danger.
2101
02:03:54,761 --> 02:03:59,437
And I wish to hell
that it had never happened.
2102
02:04:18,159 --> 02:04:20,457
It's going to be
a question for the ages,
2103
02:04:20,536 --> 02:04:24,541
why Bradley Manning reached out
to somebody he really didn't know
2104
02:04:25,333 --> 02:04:30,009
and entrusted him with such
a life-altering secret.
2105
02:04:32,590 --> 02:04:36,845
The only thing I can come up with is that
once he saw the results of the leak,
2106
02:04:36,928 --> 02:04:40,649
the need just to share that,
just probably grew and grew.
2107
02:04:40,723 --> 02:04:41,849
He just needed
to tell anybody,
2108
02:04:41,933 --> 02:04:44,903
and he thought Adrian was
the right person to tell.
2109
02:04:45,061 --> 02:04:48,110
Whistle-blowing is
a really isolating act.
2110
02:04:48,231 --> 02:04:51,781
It's a courageous
and phenomenal thing to do,
2111
02:04:52,568 --> 02:04:54,912
but you are essentially
doing something
2112
02:04:55,071 --> 02:04:58,826
that your colleagues
and your friends
2113
02:04:58,908 --> 02:05:01,752
would not want you to do
and not understand.
2114
02:05:01,911 --> 02:05:04,334
It alienates you
further from them.
2115
02:05:04,414 --> 02:05:07,418
A source who needs
to talk to someone
2116
02:05:07,583 --> 02:05:11,588
and explain what they've done and
think through what they've done
2117
02:05:11,754 --> 02:05:13,631
needs someone safe
to do that to.
2118
02:05:26,477 --> 02:05:29,481
In the logs, Manning says,
he couldn't talk to WikiLeaks,
2119
02:05:29,605 --> 02:05:31,198
that's not how they work.
2120
02:05:31,274 --> 02:05:33,743
Does that protect
whistle-blowers
2121
02:05:33,901 --> 02:05:35,619
or does it protect WikiLeaks?
2122
02:05:38,406 --> 02:05:40,625
In the end,
everybody's just human.
2123
02:05:40,742 --> 02:05:43,291
If you're leaking
material to someone,
2124
02:05:43,411 --> 02:05:46,711
if you're telling
a reporter a good story,
2125
02:05:46,789 --> 02:05:48,541
something that really
makes a difference,
2126
02:05:48,624 --> 02:05:52,800
then I think just from
a human perspective,
2127
02:05:52,879 --> 02:05:56,304
it's really difficult not
to get any credit for it.
2128
02:05:56,424 --> 02:05:59,143
Because no one can tap you on the
shoulder and say, "Good job.
2129
02:05:59,260 --> 02:06:01,308
"Courageous thing you did."
2130
02:06:04,223 --> 02:06:07,443
And this is really the
complicated part about it.
2131
02:06:07,518 --> 02:06:11,694
How do you make sure that your source
doesn't compromise themselves?
2132
02:06:29,373 --> 02:06:33,128
In the chats, Manning
sent a link to "Pale Blue Dot,"
2133
02:06:33,878 --> 02:06:35,471
a famous photo
of Earth he saw
2134
02:06:35,546 --> 02:06:39,050
while reading an essay
by the astronomer Carl Sagan.
2135
02:06:40,384 --> 02:06:43,433
"That's home," said Sagan.
"That's us.
2136
02:06:44,555 --> 02:06:48,401
"Every saint and sinner in the
history of our species lived there,
2137
02:06:48,476 --> 02:06:50,069
"on a mote of dust,
2138
02:06:50,144 --> 02:06:52,146
"suspended on a sunbeam.
2139
02:06:52,814 --> 02:06:55,943
"In our obscurity,
in all this vastness,
2140
02:06:56,067 --> 02:06:58,866
"there is no hint that help
will come from elsewhere
2141
02:06:59,028 --> 02:07:01,406
"to save us from ourselves.
2142
02:07:02,198 --> 02:07:03,871
"It is up to us."
2143
02:07:26,556 --> 02:07:28,900
After international outcry,
2144
02:07:29,016 --> 02:07:31,940
the US Army moved Bradley Manning
out of solitary confinement.
2145
02:07:32,061 --> 02:07:35,531
In February 2013, Manning pled guilty
to leaking documents to WikiLeaks.
2146
02:07:35,606 --> 02:07:38,906
The Army continued to prosecute
him for "aiding the enemy."
2147
02:07:39,026 --> 02:07:42,701
Bradley Manning was held without
trial for more than 3 years.
2148
02:07:43,865 --> 02:07:46,914
As of March 2013, Julian Assange
remained confined to a small room
2149
02:07:47,034 --> 02:07:49,002
in the Ecuadorian Embassy
in London.
2150
02:07:49,078 --> 02:07:51,922
He promised to publish
more documents
2151
02:07:52,039 --> 02:07:55,885
and announced his campaign
to run for Senate in Australia.189383
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