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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,280 Ladies, gentlemen and those of us smart enough to have 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:05,880 transcended gender. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,440 CHEERING 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,440 I know, I know, I know. 5 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm fabulous. 6 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:16,640 My pronouns are bad, bitch. 7 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,360 CHEERING 8 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:19,720 For me! 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,200 This place is wild. 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,560 It's rule-breaking, gender-bending, 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,680 and it's at the forefront of what I see as a gender revolution. 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,960 Gender - it's not about what sex you are. 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,960 It's about whether you feel like a woman, a man, both or neither. 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,920 What are your pronouns? They, them, she, her. 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,440 They, them, she, her. He, him, they, them. 16 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,200 It's a subject that gets some people very worked up. 17 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,920 People get so upset when they see someone like me in a dress. 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,240 And often very confused. 19 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,680 Bender gender, system offender. 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,120 Will exploring different gender identities across the world... 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,840 ..help me understand gender and myself better? 22 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,080 Is this actually meant to be serious? No. Quite. 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,000 Half? OFF-CAMERA: Halfsies. 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,200 For me, I think that gender is probably 25 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,880 the most interesting 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,760 thing that runs through all of humanity and society, 27 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,800 but it is the conversation that people have the least. 28 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,800 This is probably the first time I've spoken about gender like this 29 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,240 ever in my life. 30 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,960 And it's been 29 years too late. 31 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,280 SHE LAUGHS 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,800 When I was younger, I was a little girl who liked dressing 33 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:00,600 up in boys' clothes. 34 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,640 I didn't like Barbies, I liked Action Men, I liked cars. 35 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,280 But then, if someone ever mistook me for a guy, I'd be like, 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,760 "No, I'm a girl! Can't you see that?" 37 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:15,240 I think I started having these gender identity crises 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,280 when I was a teenager. 39 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,320 I felt very alone. 40 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,240 Completely. There was no-one I could talk to. 41 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,360 But that's why even admitting it to myself was 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,640 so difficult. I just thought I... 43 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:27,880 There was something very wrong with me. I don't know. 44 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,120 The whole thing is very odd. 45 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,400 I'm still figuring it out for myself. 46 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,840 I know I'm not alone in feeling confused about gender. 47 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,400 So, to understand more about myself, I'm going 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,400 to meet some fabulous genderqueer folk. 49 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,200 There's no better person to start with than one of my favourite 50 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,840 friends. This is Mik. 51 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,200 Mik's glamorous alter ego is drag queen Gottmik, 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,520 who you might recognise from RuPaul's Drag Race. 53 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,640 All right, this is the angel of my life. 54 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:07,800 This is William's studios. Oh, my God. 55 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,200 A lot of artistry happens here. I got ready for Drag Race here. 56 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,000 Literally covered this whole place with all my stuff. 57 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,000 THEY LAUGH 58 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,280 This is iconic. This is iconic. 59 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,840 Traditionally, it's males that perform as drag queens, 60 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,640 but what makes Mik so unique is that he didn't start life as a boy. 61 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:32,640 So I'm a trans man, which means I was assigned female at birth 62 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:36,600 and then transitioned into a man. 63 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,880 But I definitely love playing with femininity. 64 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,960 And that's why I love drag so much because it just allows you to do that. 65 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,960 So I'd utilise it to kind of explore my boundaries. 66 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,240 I wake up as a guy, I go to sleep as a guy and Gottmik, 67 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,920 that female-ish persona, is 1,000% 68 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:56,720 just my art form. 69 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,600 When did you first, like, discover people can transition? 70 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,080 Well, I'm from Arizona, where it's very, like, conservative. 71 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,560 When I was, like, 18 years old, and I met, like, a bunch of trans 72 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,080 women that, like, taught me what trans was, and it just clicked. 73 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,640 I didn't transition for so long because I was very feminine 74 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:21,280 and all the trans guys I ever saw were just very masculine. 75 00:04:21,280 --> 00:04:25,320 So I used drag as a way to kind of see what I was comfortable with, 76 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:30,880 and it kind of helped me find my gender and realise that I'm 77 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,760 1,000% not a girl, I'm 1,000% a guy. 78 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,440 It's amazing. 79 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,840 I started hormones, and it was just like everything fell into place 80 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,480 and I like... It was almost like every issue 81 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,160 I had was just, like, solved in one second. 82 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,280 Born a female, now a man with a glittery drag persona, 83 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:57,320 Mik's proud of his complex identity and his journey has got me 84 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,280 thinking about my own path. 85 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:05,600 If someone had asked me as a kid if I wanted to be a boy, um, 86 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,920 I do wonder about this a lot. 87 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,960 Like, if I hadn't have become famous, would it be different? 88 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,800 If I wasn't a model, would it have been different? 89 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,080 Yeah. I mean, it is scary. 90 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,240 When I started transitioning, I was a celebrity make-up artist and 91 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,320 it was just scary, because I was like, "Oh, my God, like what am I going to do? 92 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,200 "Go to my celebrity clients and just like, 'Hi, I'm a man today.'" 93 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,960 And so I can't even imagine even, like, playing with gender 94 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,600 and trying to figure out shit in front of the world like that. 95 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,800 Like, I think gender's so stupid. 96 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,000 Masculinity and femininity doesn't define your gender 97 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,000 and it doesn't define anything except for just, like, how you 98 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,400 want to present to the world, you know? 99 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,840 All right. So, where do you think you're headed with this? 100 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:52,360 I honestly don't know. 101 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:53,600 MIK SIGHS 102 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,600 The older I've gotten, the less I'm just trying to get 103 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,600 approval from my family. 104 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,760 I wonder if I said, "Guys, I want to transition into being a man," 105 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,080 what they would do. 106 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,200 And by the way, I would never say that to them. 107 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,280 And this is the thing, it's nothing against them. 108 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:16,560 They love me. It's just some people don't understand what that is, 109 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,160 and it's like they look at you like they don't know you suddenly. 110 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,520 I love you so much. I love you more. 111 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,600 No, but I mean, that's the fun... It's like I want to be a daddy. 112 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,280 Yeah, you are a daddy, no matter what. 113 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,320 I'm feeling really inspired. 114 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,960 Maybe I can use drag to explore my gender. 115 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,680 So, Gottmik's put me in the make-up chair. 116 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,880 I love that I'm thickening your brows. 117 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,720 Yeah, you are. 118 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,120 What we're trying to build right now, like a gender... 119 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,000 Bender. Bender. System offender. Yeah. 120 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,600 Bender gender, system offender. 121 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:00,960 MIK LAUGHS 122 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,600 I used to think that moustaches were nose hair. 123 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,000 I used to get, like, the foam shaving cream, 124 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,960 I used to put it on my face and pretend to shave 125 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,000 with, like, the end of a moisturiser bit because it's hard. 126 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,480 Non-transferrable. OK. 127 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:20,760 Ven-gen, Gen-ben, 128 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,720 welcome to the world. 129 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,880 It's scary. WHISPERS: In a good way. 130 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,840 Oh, my God, you literally look like Zac Efron. 131 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,920 This absolutely matches my eyebrows, like, kind of perfectly. 132 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,600 I mean, it's not, not... 133 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,160 You honestly look hot as all hell. 134 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:40,880 Ah! 135 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,120 MIK LAUGHS 136 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,720 And after a bit of that Gottmik magic, I'm really feeling it. 137 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,200 Wow. Wow. What gender's happening here, ladies? 138 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,520 Yeah. Gentleman. You look cool. 139 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,640 I've been obsessed with drag queens for, like, the last couple of years. 140 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,560 I hadn't really ever done it, though, in practice, dressed 141 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,000 in male drag. 142 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,400 Apart from when I was, like, nine years old, when I would 143 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,440 go down the street dressed as a boy to try and see if people believed 144 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,560 me, or if I would get away with it, or what people would treat me like. 145 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,800 For me, drag is an outward expression of how 146 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,800 I feel inside in some way, shape, or form. 147 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,920 My gender is this kind of like multicoloured 148 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,800 sea, sometimes it's wavy and sometimes it's completely still 149 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,960 and sometimes there are these massive tidal waves. 150 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,080 But it just, it's... For me, it never feels fixed. 151 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,720 I know, from my own experiences, thinking about gender can 152 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,080 really make your head spin. 153 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,960 So, let's back it up a bit and get to the bottom of what gender 154 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,800 actually is and how it differs from sex. 155 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,840 Let's talk about gender, baby! Gender. 156 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,640 It can be controversial. 157 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,760 So I've called in my fellow Brit 158 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,400 and medical expert Dr Ronx to give their perspective. 159 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,000 We're going to do cue cards. 160 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:10,320 I'm a bit nervous. 161 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:11,360 Gender. 162 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,840 Gender is essentially how somebody feels inside. 163 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,480 It's an innate feeling, and it's not, um, 164 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,440 necessarily related to somebody's sex assigned at birth. 165 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,360 I mean, should we talk about what sex is? 166 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,400 Because I think people can, um, uh, confuse sex and gender. 167 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,200 Yes, exactly. Sex. 168 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,000 OK. Sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex. 169 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,800 Medical term used to divide people into two binary categories 170 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,960 based on their, usually external, sex organs. 171 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,800 So, male, female. 172 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,400 Wah! Trans/transgender. 173 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,400 So, society assumes that if you have a vagina, 174 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,640 then you are going to feel that you are a woman. 175 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,240 And if you have a penis that you are going to feel that you are a man. 176 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,880 So, trans people feel that their gender isn't aligned to the 177 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,720 sex they were assigned to at birth. 178 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,600 So, if we think about a female child 179 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,400 may not grow into a woman, 180 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,560 they might identify as a man. 181 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:13,840 Yeah, yeah, of course. But the thing that we need to be 182 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,400 very, very clear about is 183 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,360 that the trans experience is different for absolutely everybody. 184 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:24,360 Not everybody wants to evolve into a binary gender. 185 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,080 Also, not everybody will take hormones or have a change 186 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:33,000 to their physical appearance or, in society, behave in a gendered way. 187 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,120 Me! Non-binary. My gender identity is nonbinary. 188 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,560 So I use the pronouns "they", "them", 189 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:43,800 and I do not identify as a man or woman. 190 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,120 I have a vagina and therefore I'm socialised by my 191 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,600 family and by society into womanhood. 192 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:56,320 But that doesn't mean that I have to walk around the world 193 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,720 as a woman. 194 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,480 So I also call myself trans. 195 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,720 So, what... What is your sex? 196 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,080 Um, I mean, my sex is... I was... I have a vagina. 197 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,200 I, personally, 198 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,240 I've always grown-up without feeling like I have a gender. Yeah. 199 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,960 But it's more that I didn't belong in any of the gender stereotypes. 200 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,000 For me, the whole feminine identity was so annoying 201 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,920 because I was like, "I am a person that likes to play outside, 202 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,640 "to build, to climb, to do crazy things." 203 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,200 And in a dress that my mother used to try 204 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,400 and put me in all the time, and with really long hair, 205 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,560 I was like, "I can't do any of those things." Yeah. So it was really confusing. 206 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:31,600 I think more people would be comfortable with the gender 207 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,360 that's been assigned to them if we didn't have all of these 208 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,240 societal pressures that come with it. 209 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,080 Wow. It's so true. 210 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,960 Some estimate that for around 98% of folk, their sex 211 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,400 and their gender match up. 212 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,160 But about 2% feel differently. 213 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,240 In the West, we've now got a set of words for gender identities. 214 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,320 But around the world, other cultures often see 215 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,280 and name gender diversity differently. 216 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:10,240 300 miles south of Mexico City lives the indigenous Zapotec people. 217 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,960 And for more than 500 years, they've recognised not two, 218 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,760 but three distinct genders - 219 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,040 men, women, and muxe. 220 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,760 Felina, like most muxe people, was recorded male at birth. 221 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,560 I love that. 222 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:15,160 Muxe make up about 6% of people in Felina's hometown. 223 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,320 Most work in stereotypically feminine trades such as cooking, 224 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,880 hairdressing or embroidering traditional dresses, 225 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,200 worn as a symbol of muxe pride. 226 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,560 Muxe people rarely marry. 227 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,040 Despite romantic relationships with men, 228 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,760 they're expected to stay home and take on caring responsibilities. 229 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,600 Today, Felina is bringing together muxes from all over the state for 230 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:02,440 an annual festival celebrating muxe culture, visibility and bravery. 231 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,400 The Catholic church is not exactly known for supporting gender 232 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,560 diversity. But here in Oaxaca, it's a big part of the muxe festivities. 233 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,640 HE SINGS SCRIPTURE 234 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,840 It's the start of a three-day celebration of all things muxe. 235 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,120 It turns out it's not just Oaxaca that has more than two genders. 236 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,280 India has the hijra. 237 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,600 In Naples, Italy, there are the femminielli. 238 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,760 Many indigenous Americans recognise two-spirit people, 239 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:58,160 whilst Samoa has four genders - men, women, fa'afafine, and fa'afatama. 240 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,560 And the Bugis people of Sulawesi have five genders, 241 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,640 similar to Western concepts of man, women, trans man, 242 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,840 trans women, and nonbinary. 243 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,120 No, don't eat the bird. 244 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,600 I think the Western culture that I grew up in, with just two 245 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,400 genders, men and women, is far too restrictive. 246 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,000 No wonder some people are showing the world options beyond this 247 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,760 binary, like writer, performance artist and activist Alok. 248 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,040 What do you want from me?! CAR BEEPS HORN 249 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,680 SHE LAUGHS 250 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,880 CAR BEEPS HORN 251 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,760 Alok's taking me to a tailor in the West Village whose family has been 252 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,680 dressing the gender-nonconforming community for 35 years. 253 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,280 Hi, how are you? Oh, my gosh. 254 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,720 Yeah, your dress is ready, I think. 255 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,800 But I want you to try it on. Oh! OK. 256 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,920 How do you like it? It's really great. 257 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,600 The length is good. And it looks great. 258 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,800 Can we get more room up here? 259 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,800 More room here? Yeah. 260 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,240 My shoulders are kind of wide. 261 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,040 We can do that. Thank you. 262 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,960 People get so upset when they see someone like me in a dress. 263 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,160 They'll be like, "That's a man in a dress!" 264 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,040 Like, so what? 265 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,960 What about just looking like yourself? 266 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,640 Mm. Exactly. 267 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,720 And how do you define your gender? 268 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,920 I don't like defining my gender because I'm fluid, which 269 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,680 means on a given day, I could look like something completely different. 270 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,840 I don't see it as necessarily being my gender 271 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,720 when I wear what society calls "girls clothes", 272 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,720 because my gender is internal, it's not external. Mm. 273 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,200 Do you think the binary has really affected us badly? Yes. 274 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,600 Is that kind of more along the lines...? 275 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,960 We're constantly saying, "You're not masculine enough, 276 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,320 "you're not feminine enough." 277 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,520 We're constantly made to feel like we're not enough. 278 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,920 Being a man has to be opposite with being a woman. 279 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,520 And it only gives us two options. Yeah, put in a box. 280 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,480 Black and white, this or that. Like, all of us have 281 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,440 fluidity in us, but we're constantly trying 282 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,800 to put people into these binary boxes because it's easier. 283 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,440 Meeting you, you're so outside of gender, 284 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,560 and you have such a confidence in your masculinity 285 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:31,520 and it, for me, was a wake-up call that all of us 286 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,920 are in this journey of trying to figure out who we are outside 287 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,720 of what we've been told. 288 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,800 And that, actually, in a world without that pressure, 289 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,040 that societal pressure, who would we be? You know? 290 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,360 But these things have just been so ingrained into us. 291 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:50,760 I realise how much internalised shade I have against myself and not to anyone else. 292 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,520 But it's still, you know, especially with whatever your parents' 293 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,880 beliefs were or your grandparents' beliefs were. 294 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,520 I mean, it just... It does take a long time to change, 295 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,880 but the quicker it happens, the more that people will find freedom. 296 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,720 What I often say is they will try their best to destroy you 297 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,200 and call it love. Yeah. 298 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,160 That it was often that people who said that they loved me 299 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,440 first who were policing my gender. 300 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:17,200 I had to deny myself, erase myself, "invisibilise" myself. 301 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,360 So I didn't allow any video recordings of me. 302 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:20,440 I didn't want any photos. 303 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,320 I didn't want audio recordings because I felt like I was too feminine. 304 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,800 My voice was too girlie and my gestures were too girlie. 305 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,160 And so I just literally became in a straitjacket. 306 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,800 I wouldn't express myself at all. 307 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,280 Can I ask how your relationship is with your family now? 308 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:35,800 It's so much better now. 309 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,600 I think because they saw how this is what happiness is. 310 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,240 Yeah. It's so important. 311 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,920 And one of the things I wanted to ask you is modelling, do you 312 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,240 feel like it's difficult for you to figure out what your own image is? 313 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,200 Yeah. Really. Um, I... 314 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,640 Like, my identity as a person, I don't... 315 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,120 I don't really know what that is. 316 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:03,600 In a way of like, I went from being a suicidal, depressed 317 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,800 teenager to going straight out of school and becoming a famous model. 318 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,280 I don't know who I am. 319 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,880 Like, a lot of people don't know who they are, right. Right. 320 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,800 You know, I'm nearly 30, and I still feel like I'm 16. 321 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,760 Both Alok's experiences and my own show how harmful rigid 322 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,600 ideas about masculinity and femininity can be. 323 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,960 For what it's worth, if I'd grown up in a world that understood 324 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,960 the complexities of gender a bit better, I think 325 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,600 my childhood would've been a lot easier and happier. 326 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:40,400 When I was a teenager, I mean, I had a lot of mental stuff going on. 327 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,760 Pretty heavy depression, suicidal thoughts, like, you know, 328 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,680 I had a mental breakdown. It was all, I think, to do with finding 329 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,800 identity and sexuality 330 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,360 and gender and, um, yeah, I think a lot of that was... 331 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:56,040 It was pretty rough, yeah. 332 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,000 Because I wasn't like everyone else. 333 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,720 But actually, I was wrong. 334 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,760 Like me, a lot of people growing up feel unsure about their gender. 335 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,400 The big question is - why? 336 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,880 One theory is that it's to do with how you develop in the womb. 337 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,600 It starts with the chromosomes you inherit, which set 338 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,600 you off on the path to being male or female. 339 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,040 Then, around week eight of development, sex hormones 340 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,280 like testosterone or oestrogen kick in to shape your body. 341 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,800 But sex hormones may also influence whether connections 342 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,200 in the brain develop in more male or more female ways. 343 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:45,840 One DNA study of 30 trans men 344 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,960 and trans women identified gene variants that affect 345 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,640 the amount of sex hormones produced just before and just after birth. 346 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,080 These variants could cause you to have a body that's one sex 347 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:04,000 and a mind that feels and acts quite differently. 348 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,920 It's one possible reason why gender is more diverse than just men 349 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,520 and women. 350 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,640 But perhaps surprisingly, so is your body. 351 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,200 Because when it comes to our sexual anatomy, 352 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,320 there can be dozens of biological variations. 353 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,400 Meet River Gallo - they're intersex. 354 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,760 That means they were born with reproductive or sexual 355 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,280 anatomy that didn't medically tick the boxes of male or female. 356 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,080 I used to religiously not step on cracks. 357 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,520 Oh, of course, me, too. Yeah. 358 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,120 If you do two in a row, it's good luck. Three in a row, it's bad luck. 359 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,880 Then you have to spin around ten times, kick a lamppost, spit on the 360 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,800 floor and go, "Aye, aye sailor." Ow, Ow. 361 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,280 THEY LAUGH 362 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,960 That's what happens when you don't do the luck thing. 363 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,160 Fuck you, tree. Ow. 364 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,560 River's family runs an El Salvadorian restaurant. 365 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,320 And I cannot wait to find out more about their extraordinary story... 366 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,000 This is my mum. Thank you so much for having me. I'm Cara. 367 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,800 Hi, nice to meet you. Baby! Hi, Mum. 368 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,560 ..and to try their famous pupusas. 369 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,520 Cheese and meat. Cheese and meat. Yes, pupusa. 370 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,480 I always say the pupusas paid for my college. 371 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,200 THEY LAUGH 372 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,200 Tell me a little bit about you growing up. 373 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,480 I knew there was something different about me 374 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,400 since I was 12, you know, which is when, um, my doctors told me 375 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,640 that I was born without testicles. 376 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,600 I was put on testosterone to start going through puberty. 377 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,200 And then, when I was 16, 378 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,480 had a surgery to implant prosthetic testicles into my scrotum. 379 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,720 Those prosthetic testicles actually give me gender dysphoria. 380 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,160 River, like many intersex people, felt their sex 381 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,280 and gender was decided for them by doctors. 382 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,040 It wasn't until I, like, I really wanted to make a film out of it, 383 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,360 that I realised that my condition was intersex. 384 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:07,400 Mm. 385 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,040 River's ground-breaking short film, Ponyboi, 386 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,040 follows a young intersex runaway 387 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,040 navigating love and seeking self-acceptance. 388 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,200 It's one of the few films ever to star an intersex person 389 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,840 as an intersex lead, 390 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,480 and opened up a whole new world for River. 391 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,280 While I was writing the screenplay, 392 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,440 I discovered my condition is part of the larger intersex umbrella, 393 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,960 and found that there is like these intersex activists, 394 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,840 who were really vocal about their experiences. 395 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,960 Was it something you were quite scared of, 396 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,760 or were you just so happy to find out? 397 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,480 Like, like surely both, right or something? Yeah. 398 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,280 Definitely both. 399 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,880 It was like a relief, because I was just like, "Oh, my God, 400 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,720 "community, people, support." 401 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,920 Like, and then at the same time it was like, 402 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,760 "What the fuck?" How - why did it take this long? 403 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,160 Why did no doctor in these last, like, 404 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,880 ten, 12 years tell me anything? 405 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,000 I recently looked at my journals from that time, 406 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,040 and it was heart-breaking, 407 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,000 cause it was like, you know, 408 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,800 there was a lot of talk of like not wanting to live. 409 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,240 There was a lot of just like, just confusion. 410 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,200 Are you going to cry? Mm-mm. OK. 411 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,320 Just checking. 412 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,120 Slightly, but shut up, God, you're annoying! 413 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:26,520 That breaks my heart. 414 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,040 How can you not be pissed off? 415 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,560 Yeah, I turned that anger into activism. 416 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,840 Is it still normal for someone who's born intersex 417 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,480 to be assigned their gender? Pretty much, yeah. 418 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,520 Most doctors will just say, like, 419 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,520 this is just kind of, like, what has to happen. 420 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,120 Leave the kid alone! 421 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:46,720 And it's also doctors preparing children to have heterosexual sex. 422 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:47,960 Because that's what it is. 423 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,040 That's why it's, like, you know, a hetero patriarchal agenda. 424 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,360 And I think that's part of the reason why this, like, 425 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,640 what I like to call, like the intersex tipping point 426 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,760 is now happening. 427 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,640 Now we're finally realising our shared experience is 428 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,360 collective power to get these laws made, 429 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:08,080 so that no intersex child 430 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,760 has to go through what we, what we've been through. 431 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,960 What, what laws do you want to be put into place? 432 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,480 To just ask people to delay surgeries. 433 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,400 So, saying that, like, OK, 434 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,120 any medically unnecessary surgeries or cosmetic surgeries should be 435 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:26,480 delayed until the child can decide at age of consent. 436 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:27,520 Yes, exactly. 437 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,920 Within the realm of discovering who you are, 438 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,520 is it something you'll still figuring out? 439 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,040 Since I came out as intersex, 440 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,080 and then like, you know, now being nonbinary and trans, 441 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,720 I definitely feel like I have more confidence to just like be myself. 442 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,840 I'm still kind of figuring out what my identity is, 443 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,880 in terms of being trans, and if I want to transition or not. 444 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,400 Because at the same time I, I also feel really comfortable and happy, 445 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,040 inhabiting this non-binary body 446 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,480 and just kind of, like, rocking with it. 447 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,120 It was really, really nice to meet River, 448 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,120 but there was a sadness, you know, about like... 449 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,840 ..being kind of emotionally unsupported 450 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,960 and going through all of the stuff medically alone. 451 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,120 And I think how crazy it would've been to have someone medically 452 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,960 make decisions that I couldn't even have control over, I suppose. 453 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,440 River's story shows our sexual biology is actually this 454 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,680 kaleidoscope of diversity. 455 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,080 It's estimated that up to 1.7% of us humans are intersex, 456 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,920 which could mean there are many hundreds of thousands 457 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,040 of intersex people in the UK alone. 458 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,360 Our bodies clearly don't always fit neatly into two categories. 459 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:43,280 So is this the same for our minds? 460 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,440 The University of Cambridge, 461 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,800 where scientist Dr Christelle Langley has been investigating 462 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,120 if gender shows up in the brain. 463 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,040 What we tried to do in our study was to look at whether we could 464 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,200 identify typically male or typically female brains. 465 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,760 So, do brains from males and females look different? 466 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,160 Well, no. 467 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,120 One grey blob is much like another. 468 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,840 But Christelle wanted to know if brain activity patterns 469 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,200 could tell you which was which. 470 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,480 Interesting! 471 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,200 But why are we looking at a cake? 472 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,960 So the brain is made up of a number of different areas and regions. 473 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,000 So things like synapses, networks, cortices, 474 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,720 they all function together, much like the ingredients of a cake. 475 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,000 Dr Christelle used AI to analyse 10,000 brains, 476 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,000 half from biological males, half from females. 477 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,680 Previous studies have identified different patterns of connectivity 478 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,600 in each sex. 479 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,360 The AI was tasked with identifying which of Christelle's brains 480 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,040 were male, and which female, based on those patterns. 481 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,120 And the results were plotted onto a brain sex continuum. 482 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,040 You'd expect the brains to divide neatly into two sexes. 483 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,040 But what Dr Christelle discovered was that many of us 484 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,120 don't have very gendered brains at all. 485 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,040 So in our study, what we managed to show was that 486 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,960 approximately 25% 487 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,000 mapped on to the male end of the continuum. 488 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,040 And approximately 25% 489 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,720 mapped on to the female end of the continuum. 490 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,080 And the really interesting finding was that actually 491 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,880 50% of people had what we call an androgynous brain, 492 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,320 and didn't show any of these very stereotypical 493 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,360 male and female traits. 494 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,480 If you just looked at the connection patterns of an androgynous brain, 495 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,280 you wouldn't be able to tell if it belonged to a male or a female. 496 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,240 They share qualities from both, and it turns out that's healthy. 497 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,960 Androgyny is related to things like higher cognitive flexibility, 498 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,320 better creativity, 499 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,040 and actually these allow you to better adapt in society, 500 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,080 and you're more likely to flourish in social situations. 501 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,240 But a more gendered brain leads to more rigid, insular thinking, 502 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,720 higher depression, social anxiety and isolation. 503 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,040 Both the female and the male ends of the spectrum 504 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,280 had worse mental health. 505 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,000 More research is needed to understand what this means 506 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,480 for trans and nonbinary people, 507 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,320 as none were knowingly included in Dr Christelle's study. 508 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,400 But we do know that all that toxic "boys should be boys" crap 509 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,080 makes for less happy lives. 510 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:45,560 All things considered, 511 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,080 I think I would choose a slice from this cake. 512 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,040 Ah, it's dropping. Sorry! 513 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,080 LAUGHTER 514 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,480 BIKE BELL RINGS 515 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,240 Gender is way too easily seen for most 516 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,000 as black and white, male/female, 517 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,000 because it's so much more dynamic 518 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,280 and interesting and fascinating. 519 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,400 It's like the whole thing is just so, so archaic in so many ways. 520 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,040 OK. Story so far. 521 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,000 Rather than being strictly male or female, our bodies and our minds 522 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,720 are more fluid and varied than I ever thought possible. 523 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,240 A massive mix of circumstances creates millions of unique people, 524 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,400 with their own gender identities, 525 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,280 and that's generating lots of revolutionary ideas 526 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,840 about who you can be in the world. 527 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,760 In Japan, there's a gender phenomenon 528 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,040 that's grown over the last 15 years. 529 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,720 Danso, people assigned female at birth, 530 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,320 working and often living as men. 531 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,880 This is a gender totally unique to Japan. 532 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,560 There are danso boybands, 533 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,080 danso bars 534 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,480 and danso heart-throbs. 535 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,360 But behind the showbiz glitz of danso's entertainment 536 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,320 lies a really authentic way of life. 537 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,040 Meet Jin, who lives as a danso full time. 538 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,160 Like many danso, Jin works as an escort, 539 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,840 a strictly non-sexual one. 540 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,600 He's got an escort date tonight. 541 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,120 Jin, like most danso, 542 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,240 doesn't identify as what we in the West would call trans, 543 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,560 or non-binary. 544 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,360 I totally get why the danso want to live and dress like men. 545 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,200 So far, I've only expressed my more masculine side through what I wear. 546 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:47,920 But I've never quite worked out 547 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,120 whether I should go further than that. 548 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,000 I'm going on a date on Wednesday night. 549 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,240 So what are we doing on Thursday? Oh, my gosh. 550 00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:55,440 She will never escape. 551 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,080 When I first started learning about trans people, 552 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,240 I was like, wait, but I felt that. 553 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:06,320 Or like, I kind of went through that when I was young 554 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:07,840 or that's kind of crazy, 555 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,400 and then thinking, "Oh, am I living a lie? 556 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,640 Like, is this this giant secret that maybe I should be a man, or...? 557 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,440 And then like, but also no. 558 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,720 Alfie. Alfie. 559 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,040 I love him so much. 560 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,040 So what would it be like to have a man's body? 561 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,480 And is that me? 562 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,800 Well, science shows our sense of gender can be tweaked 563 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,520 if we perceive our bodies differently. 564 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:43,160 And someone in Spain can give me a taste of what that might feel like. 565 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,320 This lushly coiffed cognitive neuroscientist, Dr Marte Roel Lesur, 566 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,920 is the brains at a cutting edge laboratory, 567 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,080 packed with very cool tech. 568 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,080 Welcome to the gender swap. 569 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,200 Yeah. What? This is so cool. 570 00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,360 Sit down here. 571 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,800 Here comes the curtain. Say goodbye to yourselves 572 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,040 In a cognitive experiment called the full body ownership illusion, 573 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,480 I'm going to swap bodies with this guy, Carlos. 574 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,640 And once... I don't know why I'm a little scared. 575 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,000 My VR headset is not showing my body, it's showing his on me. 576 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,320 Can it trick my mind into feeling a different gender identity? 577 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,080 They'll have a camera in front, so that they can see their full bodies. 578 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,440 And what we do is that we swap the cameras. 579 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,000 We mirror each other's movements. 580 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:39,200 Oh! 581 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,840 And before long, my head is actually starting to get in sync 582 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,760 with my masculine body. 583 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,240 Oh, my gosh, this is so weird. 584 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,640 It's a completely multisensory experience. 585 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,160 By providing these tactile and visual interactions, 586 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,080 they not only feel that they're located in this space, 587 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,400 but also that this body is their own body. 588 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,760 Three, two, one, touch. 589 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,480 Three, two, one. It's wild. 590 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,520 It is definitely tricking the mind. 591 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,600 There are certain brain areas that are activated 592 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,440 when people see themselves from a different perspective. 593 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,560 Brain areas related to the body, 594 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,200 body perception to planning of movement, 595 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,040 to perspective, to spatial cognition. 596 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,440 This combination of sight and touch 597 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,240 really makes me feel like I've got the body of a man. 598 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,720 Whoa! 599 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:35,240 Argh, I've got man hands! 600 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,200 Oh, no way. 601 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,080 That is crazy, guys. 602 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,920 We open a curtain that is separating the space between the two people, 603 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,720 and they face themselves as another person. 604 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,080 This is your hand. 605 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,240 This one right here. No, so confusing. Not happy. 606 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,040 This one. What? 607 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,240 I feel like I've become Carlos. 608 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:06,440 Whoa! 609 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,520 Dude, this is crazy. 610 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,200 Our self-identity, 611 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,600 the way we perceive ourselves is very grounded on our bodies. 612 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,880 The fact that I can see myself and, and know that it's me, 613 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,520 for example, when I see a mirror, 614 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,000 is very crucial to our human experience. 615 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,480 However, it's possible to shift this, 616 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,880 to feel that we are somebody else. 617 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,160 It tells us that gender is much more fluid, 618 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,320 and it shows that our identities are more malleable than we thought of. 619 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,480 When the brain's tricked like this, 620 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,480 experiments show a rapid impact on our own sense of gender. 621 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,440 Women can feel less feminine and men less masculine. 622 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,960 I'm so confused. 623 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:50,120 Wow! 624 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,160 That is so weird. 625 00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:57,360 It's the coolest thing in the world. 626 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:58,600 Oh, my God! Whoa. 627 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:00,680 Ooh! 628 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,400 Illusion experiments like this suggest that our sense of gender 629 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,240 isn't entirely fixed, 630 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:08,680 and can change. 631 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,040 That was so crazy. 632 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,800 I, I knew it was going to be amazing, 633 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,880 I just didn't understand exactly how crazy that was. 634 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,320 Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, it's really like we're... 635 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,080 There is one moment that you lose your perspective as your body, 636 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,920 you know, and then you are fully introduced in that body. 637 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,000 Once you're in it for a while, it's like wow, 638 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,840 you just get so used to it, I suppose. 639 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,920 It's like, oh, my God, I've got such muscly legs. 640 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,280 We get a lot of people interested in trying these 641 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,120 that are transitioning gender. 642 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,560 This is very interesting for trans communities. 643 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,760 Soon VR could allow trans people to experience their new bodies 644 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,280 in 3D before permanent procedures. 645 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,640 It was emotional at the end when you see yourself and, like, 646 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,480 hug yourself. I was, like, "Cool." 647 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,360 It's like quite, quite shocking, yeah. 648 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,040 That made me really want to be quite sad. 649 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:55,600 Like, "Oh, my God, that's adorable." 650 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,000 Yeah, it's, it's, so, so, so interesting. 651 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,880 Trying to be a man, I realise, like, I was a lot more feminine 652 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,440 in the way sometimes that I moved than I thought I was. 653 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,000 I don't know how much I liked it. 654 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,160 It was quite uncomfortable, the feeling, 655 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:14,880 the sensation of touching someone. 656 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,240 So that's when it became real. 657 00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,320 Then it was like, Oh, my God, I'm in a man's body. 658 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,560 It was really quite crazy. 659 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,400 It made me happy to be a woman, I suppose, in so many ways. 660 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,520 I was like, "Oh, I'm...weird." 661 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,040 Cos I usually was like, "Oh, God, 662 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,400 "would I want to look at my dick?" and I was like, "Not really." 663 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,120 I was like "Oh." Make me feel weird. 664 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,040 I'm in my hometown - London. 665 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,920 And ending this journey where I started, 666 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,480 with the fabulous folk at cabaret night, Bar Wotever. 667 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,120 A very, very special haven where, gender wise, 668 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,560 you can literally be whatever you want. 669 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,760 Tell me about tonight, I've never been here. 670 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,640 Bar Wotever is, I feel like the name kind of says it. 671 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,680 It literally is like a night that we put on and everything's welcome. 672 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,040 All you have to do is walk through the door, 673 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,480 and there is a room, a whole community of people right there. 674 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,240 It's so, so incredible. 675 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,000 How do you - what are your pronouns? Just so I know. 676 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,040 They, them, she, her. They, them, she, her. 677 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,960 He, him, they, their. 678 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,400 They, them. We did the thing. 679 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,240 She - she daddy. 680 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:26,080 She daddy, I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 681 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,160 I think that's going to make a lot of people happy. 682 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,560 Yeah. Yeah. 683 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:30,680 You'd like that. 684 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,200 There's just like no pressure, 685 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,080 like everything should be allowed to be fluid, do you know what I mean? 686 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,400 Like, you can try pronouns, try different names, 687 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,400 try different pronouns, different expressions. 688 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,000 There's just so much freedom within it. 689 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,960 Especially at a night like this. It's like - it's just freedom. 690 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,640 It's liberating to now feel able to talk about this tricky subject 691 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,520 that I used to just run away from. 692 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,440 This is THE place to see, both on and off stage, 693 00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,960 just how diverse gender can be. 694 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,240 Ladies, gentlemen, and those of us smart enough 695 00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:03,520 to transcend a gender. 696 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,080 CHEERING 697 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,200 HARD ROCK MUSIC 698 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,800 Come on. It's time for the world to open up its arms 699 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,640 to gender, in all its fantastic forms. 700 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,040 And what about your gender journey? 701 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,960 Um, my gender journey is still on one. 702 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,040 For me, talking about it has just been a really interesting thing. 703 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,800 I am a she right now, 704 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,040 but like, I like also dressing up like a man, and being a he. 705 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,000 You don't have to put so much pressure on yourself 706 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,040 to know what you are, who you are, 707 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,680 whether it's masculine or feminine, it's just who I am. 708 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,120 Now I feel like I dance in between the lines. 709 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,080 I'd, like, sway back and forward. 710 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,760 I'm a loose willow tree, blowing in the wind of gender. 711 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,200 I don't think there are actually words to express how freeing 712 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,720 and how just "right" I feel in myself now. 713 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:07,880 I've realised that gender has no signifier on how you look, 714 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,000 how you act, how you talk, what you do with your life. 715 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,920 I hope that in the future we can all exist in the same space together, 716 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,560 and every single gender expression is completely valid. 717 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,400 I'm just living off this energy. 718 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,080 It's, um, it's a beautiful place and beautiful people. 719 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,400 I've never really been out and seen this community in this way. 720 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,040 Um, it's a lot of emotion. 721 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,600 It's a lot of support, a lot of love. 722 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,360 People can feel very weighed down by a conversation about gender. 723 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,200 But it is fun. It should be fun. 724 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,520 It should be an experience, an experiment, 725 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,960 a way of expressing yourself and playing with it. 726 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,800 Can I go back in? Can I go back in? Can I come back in? 727 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,600 OK, here I go. 728 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,760 Planet Sex. 96937

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