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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,001 --> 00:00:02,602 In all my time as an arson investigator, 2 00:00:02,636 --> 00:00:05,137 I'd never worked on anything like the Empress fire. 3 00:00:09,142 --> 00:00:11,511 Rescue captain 325 has issued a Mayday. 4 00:00:11,545 --> 00:00:13,613 He has fallen through the roof of 335 Yonge street. 5 00:00:13,647 --> 00:00:17,483 When I heard that Mayday call, my stomach dropped. 6 00:00:24,024 --> 00:00:25,858 One of the captains had fallen in through 7 00:00:25,893 --> 00:00:26,993 the roof of the building. 8 00:00:29,663 --> 00:00:33,499 I could hear the fear in that captain's voice. 9 00:00:33,534 --> 00:00:35,368 Can you confirm when you see my position? 10 00:00:35,402 --> 00:00:37,803 Are they gonna get me out in time? 11 00:00:37,838 --> 00:00:39,639 What are they going to say to my family? 12 00:00:39,673 --> 00:00:41,474 Who's gonna be the one knocking on the door? 13 00:00:45,245 --> 00:00:48,381 Someone out there had set this building on fire. 14 00:00:48,415 --> 00:00:51,384 This is someone who had gone leaps and bounds 15 00:00:51,418 --> 00:00:53,886 beyond that typical arsonist. 16 00:00:58,926 --> 00:01:01,928 There was an evil side of him 17 00:01:01,962 --> 00:01:05,097 who wanted to watch people burn... 18 00:01:05,132 --> 00:01:07,266 watch people die... 19 00:01:07,301 --> 00:01:09,235 because he got a thrill out of it. 20 00:01:10,704 --> 00:01:17,468 - Sync and corrections by ByDem - - www.addic7ed.com - 21 00:01:27,487 --> 00:01:29,622 I was a detective at the time within the 22 00:01:29,656 --> 00:01:31,190 Criminal Investigative Bureau. 23 00:01:33,794 --> 00:01:38,230 Part of my job description was to be the arson investigator 24 00:01:38,265 --> 00:01:39,966 within the division. 25 00:01:43,070 --> 00:01:45,905 The Empress was a huge fire that threatened 26 00:01:45,939 --> 00:01:48,140 the entire downtown core. 27 00:01:48,175 --> 00:01:51,310 Three blocks away I could see flames. 28 00:01:53,847 --> 00:01:57,149 This was on a corner with buildings on either side 29 00:01:57,184 --> 00:02:00,319 in the heart of Toronto, a six-alarm fire. 30 00:02:01,989 --> 00:02:05,057 I'm looking at the sheer magnitude of the fire. 31 00:02:05,092 --> 00:02:08,928 I'm hoping in my heart that this wasn't someone 32 00:02:08,962 --> 00:02:10,529 who's intentionally set this. 33 00:02:15,135 --> 00:02:17,169 The captain was now out. 34 00:02:17,204 --> 00:02:22,241 Seeing him like that and what he went through, it shook me. 35 00:02:22,275 --> 00:02:23,576 Mike. 36 00:02:23,610 --> 00:02:25,811 Anyone else inside? 37 00:02:25,846 --> 00:02:27,246 We don't know yet. 38 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:28,748 The building's in really bad shape. 39 00:02:28,782 --> 00:02:30,282 About a year ago, a wall collapsed, 40 00:02:30,317 --> 00:02:32,151 and it's been sitting empty ever since. 41 00:02:32,185 --> 00:02:34,053 We're not gonna know until we get in there. 42 00:02:35,122 --> 00:02:36,789 Mike Ross was an investigator 43 00:02:36,823 --> 00:02:38,958 with the office of the Fire Marshall. 44 00:02:38,992 --> 00:02:42,662 It was his job to find out how the fire started. 45 00:02:42,696 --> 00:02:43,896 This could be bad, Debbie. 46 00:02:45,699 --> 00:02:47,500 What do we know so far? 47 00:02:47,534 --> 00:02:50,436 Call came in at 4 AM. Spread quickly. 48 00:02:50,470 --> 00:02:52,772 120 firefighters. 30 trucks. 49 00:02:52,806 --> 00:02:54,540 And they still don't know 50 00:02:54,574 --> 00:02:56,375 if they've got it under control yet. 51 00:02:56,410 --> 00:02:57,810 Any word on how it started? 52 00:02:57,844 --> 00:02:59,845 Nah, it looks like it started on the third floor. 53 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:01,347 But there's no utilities running up there. 54 00:03:01,381 --> 00:03:03,282 No gas, no electricity. 55 00:03:03,316 --> 00:03:05,251 Anyway, give me two, all right? 56 00:03:08,255 --> 00:03:11,223 Often, fires are started by electrical, 57 00:03:11,258 --> 00:03:15,194 but there were no utilities within this building. 58 00:03:15,228 --> 00:03:18,698 In my mind, it had to be someone who did it. 59 00:03:18,732 --> 00:03:19,665 Debbie! 60 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:22,301 We had to hit the ground running. 61 00:03:22,335 --> 00:03:24,503 You guys just get here? 62 00:03:24,538 --> 00:03:26,205 If this thing gets out of control, 63 00:03:26,239 --> 00:03:28,574 we're looking at a disaster. 64 00:03:28,608 --> 00:03:30,476 You and I are going to look to see 65 00:03:30,510 --> 00:03:31,877 if we can find any security footage. 66 00:03:31,912 --> 00:03:33,713 One of the businesses around here's gotta have cameras 67 00:03:33,747 --> 00:03:35,014 that cover the Empress. 68 00:03:35,048 --> 00:03:37,216 Mark? I want you to check to see if there's been 69 00:03:37,250 --> 00:03:38,718 any unusual fire activity lately. 70 00:03:38,752 --> 00:03:40,086 Anything. Nothing's too small. 71 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:41,876 Go right to the fire department if you have to. 72 00:03:41,877 --> 00:03:43,089 Got it. 73 00:03:43,090 --> 00:03:44,490 Oh, and check the call log, 74 00:03:44,524 --> 00:03:46,192 every number that reported the fire. 75 00:03:47,561 --> 00:03:50,763 I wanted Mark to start looking into fires in that area, 76 00:03:50,797 --> 00:03:53,065 see if he could find any patterns. 77 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:55,234 I needed to get the investigation going 78 00:03:55,268 --> 00:03:56,635 as quickly as possible. 79 00:03:58,371 --> 00:04:00,439 I walked around the back of the building, 80 00:04:00,474 --> 00:04:01,841 and I was looking to see 81 00:04:01,875 --> 00:04:04,076 if there was any surveillance cameras. 82 00:04:04,111 --> 00:04:06,345 I knew there was only certain areas that you could get 83 00:04:06,379 --> 00:04:08,414 into the building, so those were the primary areas 84 00:04:08,448 --> 00:04:10,616 that I was focussing on. 85 00:04:10,650 --> 00:04:13,586 In the back alley behind this place, 86 00:04:13,620 --> 00:04:15,588 I found what I was looking for. 87 00:04:17,390 --> 00:04:19,291 I could see whether or not someone gained entry 88 00:04:19,326 --> 00:04:21,427 into that building. 89 00:04:21,461 --> 00:04:23,095 Is that the laneway behind the Empress? 90 00:04:23,130 --> 00:04:24,830 Best view we've got. 91 00:04:28,635 --> 00:04:29,969 Wait. Stop. 92 00:04:31,438 --> 00:04:32,505 Play it forward. 93 00:04:36,309 --> 00:04:37,977 Time code says it's about 14 minutes 94 00:04:38,011 --> 00:04:39,812 before the first reports of the fire came in. 95 00:04:39,846 --> 00:04:42,248 I'll let the officers on site know to be on the lookout 96 00:04:42,282 --> 00:04:44,283 for this guy if he comes back to the scene. 97 00:04:45,852 --> 00:04:47,553 What's in that alcove? 98 00:04:47,587 --> 00:04:49,555 It's a gate, it leads you to a stairwell 99 00:04:49,589 --> 00:04:51,590 that goes up to the Empress. 100 00:04:51,625 --> 00:04:54,126 It's usually chained up. 101 00:04:54,161 --> 00:04:58,164 Except a couple of days ago, it was open. 102 00:04:58,198 --> 00:05:00,666 Open like the chain was broken, or... 103 00:05:00,700 --> 00:05:02,368 It was unlocked. 104 00:05:04,604 --> 00:05:09,108 Someone had come and unlocked that gate prior to the fire. 105 00:05:11,678 --> 00:05:14,580 Whoever it was had knowledge of where that gate was, 106 00:05:14,614 --> 00:05:18,117 and had a key to unlock it, because the bolt wasn't cut. 107 00:05:20,353 --> 00:05:24,757 That's when I went from possibly accidental 108 00:05:24,791 --> 00:05:26,826 to more than likely intentional. 109 00:05:38,872 --> 00:05:43,309 In arson, the first thing we do is look for motive. 110 00:05:43,343 --> 00:05:46,512 There are two general categories of suspects: 111 00:05:46,546 --> 00:05:49,782 fire for gain, or fire for thrill. 112 00:05:49,816 --> 00:05:52,351 I had to determine which one it was. 113 00:05:52,385 --> 00:05:55,287 Piece-by-piece, demolition crews are tearing down what's left of 114 00:05:55,322 --> 00:05:57,690 the burned heritage building at Yonge and Gould. 115 00:05:57,724 --> 00:05:59,825 The area is now a crime scene. 116 00:05:59,860 --> 00:06:02,561 We're now in the process again of removing debris 117 00:06:02,596 --> 00:06:05,064 and the four investigators that are here uh, 118 00:06:05,098 --> 00:06:07,399 are sifting through the debris to look for evidence. 119 00:06:07,434 --> 00:06:09,134 The building has been a mainstay 120 00:06:09,169 --> 00:06:12,371 on Toronto's busiest street since 1888. 121 00:06:12,405 --> 00:06:15,341 Last year, the owners of the property, the Lalani Group, 122 00:06:15,375 --> 00:06:18,544 had refused money from the city to help restore the building. 123 00:06:18,578 --> 00:06:21,814 The group wanted to develop an office tower instead, 124 00:06:21,848 --> 00:06:26,051 but the city refused permission, citing its heritage status. 125 00:06:26,086 --> 00:06:28,821 Then, under the cover of darkness Monday morning, 126 00:06:28,855 --> 00:06:32,591 it went up in flames and three firefighters were hurt. 127 00:06:32,626 --> 00:06:34,326 We're just happy that nobody was killed. 128 00:06:34,361 --> 00:06:35,995 And are the firefighters OK? 129 00:06:36,029 --> 00:06:37,496 They're alive. 130 00:06:37,530 --> 00:06:40,499 But... what they went through. 131 00:06:40,533 --> 00:06:42,868 When did your family buy the building? 132 00:06:42,903 --> 00:06:45,004 Uh, about 25 years ago. 133 00:06:45,038 --> 00:06:46,605 We leased it before that. 134 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,274 And I understand it was unoccupied. 135 00:06:48,308 --> 00:06:49,408 Is that correct? 136 00:06:49,442 --> 00:06:50,442 Uh, just recently. 137 00:06:50,477 --> 00:06:52,077 There was an accident a few months ago. 138 00:06:52,112 --> 00:06:53,491 The wall that collapsed. 139 00:06:54,581 --> 00:06:56,248 Had you started any repairs? 140 00:06:56,283 --> 00:06:58,117 Was there any construction equipment inside? 141 00:06:58,151 --> 00:06:59,952 Anything like that? 142 00:06:59,986 --> 00:07:03,255 No. We were having some problems with the contractors. 143 00:07:03,290 --> 00:07:05,925 So with no work being done, we kept it sealed up. 144 00:07:05,959 --> 00:07:07,726 How many ways in and out? 145 00:07:07,761 --> 00:07:10,195 Just one. You know, around the back through the alley. 146 00:07:10,230 --> 00:07:11,597 We kept it locked. 147 00:07:11,631 --> 00:07:13,933 And would you have any idea why it might be unlocked? 148 00:07:15,502 --> 00:07:16,969 N-No. No idea. 149 00:07:19,272 --> 00:07:23,642 You know, we had big plans for the building. 150 00:07:23,677 --> 00:07:26,045 We wanted to revitalize the whole thing. 151 00:07:26,079 --> 00:07:29,048 Preserve the history, but also give downtown Toronto 152 00:07:29,082 --> 00:07:32,084 something special. A major facelift. 153 00:07:32,118 --> 00:07:34,586 I understand that you wanted to tear the building down 154 00:07:34,621 --> 00:07:37,423 after the wall collapsed. Start fresh. 155 00:07:37,457 --> 00:07:39,725 But the city wasn't very happy about that, were they? 156 00:07:39,759 --> 00:07:42,828 Considering the historical significance of the Empress. 157 00:07:42,862 --> 00:07:44,897 There were many things going through my mind. 158 00:07:44,931 --> 00:07:47,066 The building had collapsed months earlier. 159 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:48,834 It had been deemed a heritage site, 160 00:07:48,868 --> 00:07:50,569 so they couldn't demolish the building, 161 00:07:50,603 --> 00:07:53,138 even though they'd applied for demolition permits. 162 00:07:53,173 --> 00:07:56,976 They owed people money, and I know that they wanted the 163 00:07:57,010 --> 00:07:58,677 building demolished. 164 00:07:58,712 --> 00:08:00,646 Was this their way of doing it? 165 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,450 So, what's next, now that the building is destroyed? 166 00:08:04,484 --> 00:08:07,920 I have no idea. 167 00:08:07,954 --> 00:08:10,589 A-and the clean-up costs will be immense. 168 00:08:10,623 --> 00:08:13,425 A-a building for which we paid millions is just gone. 169 00:08:13,460 --> 00:08:16,195 We haven't received the money from the insurance company. 170 00:08:16,229 --> 00:08:17,963 And we feel terrible about what happened. 171 00:08:17,998 --> 00:08:20,199 But we're victims too here. 172 00:08:20,233 --> 00:08:22,801 When I'm sitting across the table from Al, 173 00:08:22,836 --> 00:08:25,938 I'm thinking people could have died in that fire. 174 00:08:25,972 --> 00:08:28,140 If they're involved, does he actually think that we're not 175 00:08:28,174 --> 00:08:29,675 going to find out? 176 00:08:34,742 --> 00:08:36,610 It was built in 1893 177 00:08:36,644 --> 00:08:38,445 at the corner of Yonge and Gould, 178 00:08:38,479 --> 00:08:40,514 and opened as the Empress Hotel. 179 00:08:40,548 --> 00:08:42,683 Later, the Edison Hotel. 180 00:08:42,717 --> 00:08:45,352 And until last April when a wall collapsed, 181 00:08:45,386 --> 00:08:47,154 a popular restaurant for students 182 00:08:47,188 --> 00:08:49,323 at neighbouring Ryerson University. 183 00:08:49,357 --> 00:08:52,559 The cause, arson, suspect Toronto fire officials. 184 00:08:52,594 --> 00:08:54,361 The local Councillor agrees. 185 00:08:54,395 --> 00:08:56,897 The building was rather secured, umm, 186 00:08:56,931 --> 00:08:58,465 it-it does look a little suspect. 187 00:08:58,499 --> 00:09:02,402 The first few days of the investigation were intense. 188 00:09:05,607 --> 00:09:07,674 Any word on the firefighters? 189 00:09:07,709 --> 00:09:09,743 They're out of hospital. 190 00:09:09,777 --> 00:09:11,011 Physically they're fine. 191 00:09:11,045 --> 00:09:13,814 But... it's gonna be a little while 192 00:09:13,848 --> 00:09:16,416 before they're ready to come back. 193 00:09:16,451 --> 00:09:18,185 OK, what do we know so far? 194 00:09:18,219 --> 00:09:20,220 Now, from all the evidence we've collected, 195 00:09:20,255 --> 00:09:22,689 it looks like the fire broke out on the third floor here, 196 00:09:22,724 --> 00:09:24,157 southwest quadrant. 197 00:09:24,192 --> 00:09:27,327 Along with the collapsed wall, there was a hole in the roof 198 00:09:27,362 --> 00:09:28,895 that helped ventilate the flames. 199 00:09:28,930 --> 00:09:30,397 Source? 200 00:09:30,431 --> 00:09:33,767 Probably a large pile of discarded construction material, 201 00:09:33,801 --> 00:09:36,903 possibly from an attempted renovation. 202 00:09:36,938 --> 00:09:39,573 There may have been clothes and fabric there as well. 203 00:09:39,607 --> 00:09:42,009 We found a lot of zippers and, and fasteners, 204 00:09:42,043 --> 00:09:43,343 that kind of thing. 205 00:09:43,378 --> 00:09:45,379 So you think it's an arson? 206 00:09:45,413 --> 00:09:48,048 It's unlikely that a fire would spread that quickly 207 00:09:48,082 --> 00:09:49,883 without an accelerant. 208 00:09:49,917 --> 00:09:52,552 What level of expertise are we looking at? 209 00:09:52,587 --> 00:09:55,255 Accelerants like gasoline vaporize quickly. 210 00:09:55,290 --> 00:09:58,191 The fumes lay low to the ground, you end up with a fireball 211 00:09:58,226 --> 00:10:00,394 that'll burn your legs. 212 00:10:00,428 --> 00:10:02,129 If they didn't have a lot of experience, 213 00:10:02,163 --> 00:10:03,730 they could have easily gotten caught inside 214 00:10:03,765 --> 00:10:05,732 without a chance to escape. 215 00:10:05,767 --> 00:10:09,169 I'm thinking we're looking for somebody who's done this before. 216 00:10:11,839 --> 00:10:16,143 Mike Ross determined that this fire wasn't an accident. 217 00:10:16,177 --> 00:10:20,247 It's up to me at that point to find out who it was 218 00:10:20,281 --> 00:10:22,582 who set that fire. 219 00:10:22,617 --> 00:10:25,719 But what makes arson investigation so difficult, 220 00:10:25,753 --> 00:10:28,789 is that most of the evidence gets destroyed. 221 00:10:28,823 --> 00:10:32,926 So any evidence that I find gets me very excited. 222 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,728 Hope you've been taking breaks. 223 00:10:34,762 --> 00:10:36,063 Oh, thank you. 224 00:10:36,097 --> 00:10:39,333 Yeah, there's some things you're going to want to see. 225 00:10:39,367 --> 00:10:42,135 I pulled some more footage... 226 00:10:42,170 --> 00:10:44,805 Got a figure walking in at 1:29 A.M. 227 00:10:44,839 --> 00:10:47,607 Leaves at 3:50. 228 00:10:47,642 --> 00:10:50,010 First fire alarm goes off 14 minutes later. 229 00:10:50,044 --> 00:10:51,812 His backpack looks bigger when he arrives, 230 00:10:51,846 --> 00:10:53,246 and smaller when he leaves. 231 00:10:53,281 --> 00:10:54,581 Noticed that. 232 00:10:54,615 --> 00:10:57,851 Could be he had a gas tank or something like that inside. 233 00:10:57,885 --> 00:11:02,089 And here, we have him leaving outside on the street. 234 00:11:02,123 --> 00:11:05,158 Can't see his face in any of the footage. 235 00:11:05,193 --> 00:11:06,793 Could be he knew where the cameras were, 236 00:11:06,828 --> 00:11:07,928 and he was avoiding them. 237 00:11:07,962 --> 00:11:09,262 Planning ahead. 238 00:11:09,297 --> 00:11:10,931 Way ahead. 239 00:11:10,965 --> 00:11:13,266 This is from the night before the fire. 240 00:11:13,301 --> 00:11:15,535 12:21 AM... 241 00:11:15,570 --> 00:11:18,672 leaves at 1:16 AM. 242 00:11:18,706 --> 00:11:20,941 Casing the place. 243 00:11:20,975 --> 00:11:24,845 Did any of the officers on scene report seeing anybody like this 244 00:11:24,879 --> 00:11:26,380 after the fire broke out? 245 00:11:26,414 --> 00:11:28,148 Nuh-uh. 246 00:11:28,182 --> 00:11:30,951 Do we have any footage of the crowd? 247 00:11:30,985 --> 00:11:33,320 Some video from the news. 248 00:11:33,354 --> 00:11:34,888 Not much else really. 249 00:11:34,922 --> 00:11:36,990 Any of our cars' dash cams on? 250 00:11:37,024 --> 00:11:40,527 No. That would have been useful. 251 00:11:40,561 --> 00:11:43,530 OK. Well, we'll deal with what we've got. 252 00:11:43,564 --> 00:11:44,898 Get this footage to the analysts 253 00:11:44,932 --> 00:11:46,566 and we'll get a height and weight estimate. 254 00:11:46,601 --> 00:11:47,801 You got it. 255 00:11:47,835 --> 00:11:49,469 Thanks. 256 00:11:49,504 --> 00:11:50,537 Great work. 257 00:11:58,246 --> 00:12:00,747 We have an unlocked gate. 258 00:12:00,782 --> 00:12:04,885 And we have someone who would've known where the cameras are. 259 00:12:08,122 --> 00:12:09,689 When I was looking at the Lalanis, 260 00:12:09,724 --> 00:12:11,725 there were many things going through my mind. 261 00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:16,229 They owed people money, they're embattled in lawsuits. 262 00:12:20,435 --> 00:12:23,170 At this time in my mind, they're thinking, 263 00:12:23,204 --> 00:12:27,107 cut the losses. Set the fire. Move on. 264 00:12:31,779 --> 00:12:33,213 Well, it looks like your company 265 00:12:33,247 --> 00:12:35,949 is having a bit of trouble, financially. 266 00:12:35,983 --> 00:12:37,784 No, I wouldn't say that. 267 00:12:37,819 --> 00:12:40,020 We make a lot of deals, have a number of properties. 268 00:12:40,054 --> 00:12:41,755 Some work out. Some don't. 269 00:12:41,789 --> 00:12:43,623 Well, I see some missed mortgage payments 270 00:12:43,658 --> 00:12:45,759 from a property in Florida. 271 00:12:45,793 --> 00:12:48,728 Lawsuits from several businesses after the wall collapse 272 00:12:48,763 --> 00:12:50,397 at the Empress. 273 00:12:50,431 --> 00:12:51,952 - Yes, but... - And the construction company 274 00:12:51,953 --> 00:12:54,167 that you hired to fix the wall claim they haven't been paid. 275 00:12:55,903 --> 00:12:57,471 Detective Harris, I hope you're not suggesting 276 00:12:57,505 --> 00:12:59,039 we're involved in this. 277 00:12:59,073 --> 00:13:01,942 I'm just trying to figure out what happened. 278 00:13:01,976 --> 00:13:04,277 What happened was that a very valuable property of ours 279 00:13:04,312 --> 00:13:05,645 has been destroyed. 280 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:08,114 You said it yourself, there are people who are suing us, 281 00:13:08,149 --> 00:13:09,282 unhappy with us. 282 00:13:09,317 --> 00:13:10,717 Maybe somebody's trying to hurt our business. 283 00:13:10,751 --> 00:13:12,319 Perhaps you could look into that. 284 00:13:15,323 --> 00:13:17,257 I'll reach out if there's anything further. 285 00:13:17,291 --> 00:13:19,493 Let us know if there's anything we can do to help. 286 00:13:19,527 --> 00:13:20,927 Thank you. 287 00:13:25,132 --> 00:13:27,634 I don't think he appreciated my tone at that point, 288 00:13:27,668 --> 00:13:30,837 because I was being accusatory towards them. 289 00:13:33,708 --> 00:13:39,012 But just like investigating a homicide, you need hard proof. 290 00:13:39,046 --> 00:13:42,082 And after I had investigated everything to the point 291 00:13:42,116 --> 00:13:43,850 that I could with the Lalanis, 292 00:13:43,885 --> 00:13:47,521 the evidence wasn't leading me that way anymore. 293 00:13:47,555 --> 00:13:49,523 I had to move on. 294 00:13:52,493 --> 00:13:53,513 Gotcha. 295 00:13:54,295 --> 00:13:55,662 Yeah, OK. Thanks. 296 00:14:01,802 --> 00:14:02,836 You all right? 297 00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:04,137 Yeah. 298 00:14:04,171 --> 00:14:05,605 Just... 299 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,541 frustrated. 300 00:14:07,575 --> 00:14:10,277 The idea that someone could burn down this building 301 00:14:10,311 --> 00:14:12,379 in the middle of the city. 302 00:14:12,413 --> 00:14:13,446 People could have died. 303 00:14:13,481 --> 00:14:16,016 People almost did die. 304 00:14:16,050 --> 00:14:17,817 And we've got nothing to go on. 305 00:14:17,852 --> 00:14:20,120 We might have something. A fire at a rooming house. 306 00:14:20,154 --> 00:14:21,354 Sounds like a pipe bomb. 307 00:14:21,389 --> 00:14:23,857 We're bringing the guy in. Stewart Poirier? 308 00:14:23,891 --> 00:14:26,993 It raised some concerns, because it seemed like the fire 309 00:14:27,028 --> 00:14:29,229 was intended to hurt someone. 310 00:14:29,263 --> 00:14:33,567 Something caused him to set a fire in the closet of his room. 311 00:14:33,601 --> 00:14:37,637 He uh, he lit his clothing on fire and then took off. 312 00:14:37,672 --> 00:14:39,205 He needs to be off the street. 313 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,541 This person was building a pipe bomb. 314 00:14:41,576 --> 00:14:45,045 They'd put it in their closet and they'd lit it on fire. 315 00:14:45,079 --> 00:14:47,647 Had it worked the way that it was supposed to work? 316 00:14:48,883 --> 00:14:50,750 People would have died. 317 00:14:57,113 --> 00:14:59,848 When I was investigating the Empress Hotel fire, 318 00:14:59,882 --> 00:15:03,918 I was focussed more on who had something financially to gain 319 00:15:03,953 --> 00:15:06,754 from that building coming down. 320 00:15:06,789 --> 00:15:08,756 Then a call came in for another fire. 321 00:15:08,791 --> 00:15:10,525 It was at the Inglewood Arms. 322 00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:11,993 So how long have you been staying 323 00:15:12,027 --> 00:15:12,861 at the Inglewood, Stewart? 324 00:15:14,296 --> 00:15:16,531 For a while now, on and off. 325 00:15:16,565 --> 00:15:19,267 Whenever I can get the money together. 326 00:15:19,301 --> 00:15:22,103 And you'd been having trouble with the management? 327 00:15:22,138 --> 00:15:24,506 Friggin' sink didn't work. I kept tellin' 'em. 328 00:15:24,540 --> 00:15:26,774 But they wouldn't do anything about it. 329 00:15:26,809 --> 00:15:28,476 I kept tellin' 'em. 330 00:15:28,511 --> 00:15:29,878 So you built a bomb? 331 00:15:30,813 --> 00:15:33,281 Bomb? 332 00:15:33,315 --> 00:15:36,017 No, I didn't make no bomb. 333 00:15:36,051 --> 00:15:39,020 I just put some newspaper and stuff i-in the closet. 334 00:15:39,054 --> 00:15:42,557 Sprayed it with Lysol and and lit up a match. 335 00:15:42,591 --> 00:15:45,960 OK. I see. 336 00:15:45,995 --> 00:15:48,663 So, you thought you'd get back at maintenance? 337 00:15:52,201 --> 00:15:54,869 I just wanted a new room. 338 00:15:54,904 --> 00:15:58,173 I could tell Stewart Poirier had some mental health issues. 339 00:15:58,207 --> 00:16:01,509 He had a low-grade education. 340 00:16:01,544 --> 00:16:03,978 I kind of felt sad for him. 341 00:16:04,013 --> 00:16:06,447 You do know that what you did was wrong, right? 342 00:16:09,285 --> 00:16:11,753 People could have been hurt. 343 00:16:11,787 --> 00:16:14,289 And you do know that you're going to jail, right? 344 00:16:15,891 --> 00:16:18,560 Yeah. I know. 345 00:16:18,594 --> 00:16:22,263 I ju-I just wanted a new room. 346 00:16:22,298 --> 00:16:26,734 I wasn't looking at him as the type of person 347 00:16:26,769 --> 00:16:29,037 who would have had the thought process or the ability 348 00:16:29,071 --> 00:16:32,040 to take down the Empress Hotel. 349 00:16:32,074 --> 00:16:36,077 The Empress Hotel fire was pre-planned. 350 00:16:36,111 --> 00:16:38,613 It was sophisticated. 351 00:16:38,647 --> 00:16:41,015 The person had to have the knowledge to know 352 00:16:41,050 --> 00:16:42,951 how to bring that building down. 353 00:16:47,389 --> 00:16:48,590 Turn out to be anything? 354 00:16:48,624 --> 00:16:50,191 A spray can and some newspapers. 355 00:16:50,226 --> 00:16:53,895 No history of fire setting, vandalism, assault, no arson. 356 00:16:53,929 --> 00:16:56,531 Guy's dealing with a lot of issues. 357 00:16:56,565 --> 00:16:58,633 So, I've been looking into local fires, like you asked. 358 00:16:58,667 --> 00:17:00,134 Nothing like the Empress, obviously, 359 00:17:00,169 --> 00:17:02,070 but from what I can tell, it looks like 360 00:17:02,104 --> 00:17:04,239 we've got a serious increase in fires lately. 361 00:17:04,273 --> 00:17:08,276 We've got dumpster fires, garbage cans, trash in alleys. 362 00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:10,612 And none of these were reported to us? 363 00:17:10,646 --> 00:17:12,213 Well, they didn't seem suspicious. 364 00:17:12,248 --> 00:17:14,649 Some of the smaller fires were flying under our radar 365 00:17:14,683 --> 00:17:18,253 because they were dumpster fires, garbage can fires, 366 00:17:18,287 --> 00:17:20,655 that could have been caused accidentally. 367 00:17:20,689 --> 00:17:22,290 That's something that the fire departments 368 00:17:22,324 --> 00:17:24,659 wouldn't normally call us on. 369 00:17:24,693 --> 00:17:27,161 But there were so many fires in that area, 370 00:17:27,196 --> 00:17:30,898 I knew that they were more than likely intentional. 371 00:17:30,933 --> 00:17:32,734 Do you think we're looking at just one person 372 00:17:32,768 --> 00:17:34,302 behind all these fires? 373 00:17:34,336 --> 00:17:36,738 I'm not sure. 374 00:17:36,772 --> 00:17:38,640 Could it be a pyromaniac? 375 00:17:40,609 --> 00:17:42,010 A pyromaniac... 376 00:17:42,044 --> 00:17:46,247 is someone who has no control over his impulses. 377 00:17:46,282 --> 00:17:50,285 Vengeance, anger, sexual frustration. 378 00:17:50,319 --> 00:17:54,155 And that makes them especially dangerous and hard to predict. 379 00:17:57,293 --> 00:18:01,496 Maybe it was one person setting larger fires and larger fires. 380 00:18:01,530 --> 00:18:04,599 Someone who started off just by setting some small fires 381 00:18:04,633 --> 00:18:06,200 in some garbage dumpsters, 382 00:18:06,235 --> 00:18:08,870 and then those weren't satisfying his need anymore 383 00:18:08,904 --> 00:18:10,638 and he needed to keep escalating. 384 00:18:10,673 --> 00:18:13,941 He needed a bigger fire to make him feel even better. 385 00:18:13,976 --> 00:18:17,679 He's watching and he's learning every time he sets a fire. 386 00:18:17,713 --> 00:18:20,281 He's practicing his skill. 387 00:18:20,316 --> 00:18:22,350 Could it have been possible that he was escalating 388 00:18:22,384 --> 00:18:26,454 to the Empress hotel fire and thought he would try that? 389 00:18:26,488 --> 00:18:27,722 Absolutely. 390 00:18:27,756 --> 00:18:30,725 OK. I've got five local fire setters that I know of 391 00:18:30,759 --> 00:18:32,393 active at the moment. 392 00:18:32,428 --> 00:18:34,028 Most of mine are already in jail. 393 00:18:34,063 --> 00:18:37,065 Good. Means we're doing our job. 394 00:18:37,099 --> 00:18:38,466 I like Tommy Youth... 395 00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:40,702 He's been in jail recently for a couple of dumpster fires, 396 00:18:40,736 --> 00:18:42,203 but he's out now. 397 00:18:42,237 --> 00:18:44,505 Maybe looking for bigger and bigger thrills? 398 00:18:44,540 --> 00:18:47,742 Hey, did we get that info back on the Empress CCTV video? 399 00:18:47,776 --> 00:18:49,410 The height estimate? 400 00:18:49,445 --> 00:18:53,147 Oh, uh, yeah, uh, here. 401 00:18:53,182 --> 00:18:54,582 It's uh... 402 00:18:54,616 --> 00:18:56,284 between five-eight and five-ten. 403 00:19:00,689 --> 00:19:02,223 Youth's five-ten. 404 00:19:06,428 --> 00:19:09,263 He fit the height, he fit the weight. 405 00:19:09,298 --> 00:19:11,332 He wasn't in custody. 406 00:19:11,367 --> 00:19:13,034 He was a fire setter. 407 00:19:28,884 --> 00:19:30,351 Tommy Youth. 408 00:19:30,386 --> 00:19:32,887 We went to his last known address. 409 00:19:32,921 --> 00:19:34,956 I was frustrated he wasn't home, 410 00:19:34,990 --> 00:19:37,892 so I decided he must be somewhere in the area. 411 00:19:37,926 --> 00:19:41,462 He doesn't work, he lives a transient lifestyle. 412 00:19:41,497 --> 00:19:44,599 So I went to all of his known hangouts... 413 00:19:44,633 --> 00:19:46,367 and I ran into him. 414 00:19:58,480 --> 00:19:59,914 Tommy Youth. 415 00:19:59,948 --> 00:20:01,382 Yeah? 416 00:20:01,417 --> 00:20:03,317 I've been looking for you. 417 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:06,454 So where you been, Tommy? 418 00:20:06,488 --> 00:20:08,156 I couldn't find you at home. 419 00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:09,991 I didn't know you were looking. 420 00:20:10,025 --> 00:20:12,226 Not up to your usual tricks, though, right? 421 00:20:12,261 --> 00:20:14,829 No. I've been behaving myself. 422 00:20:14,863 --> 00:20:16,798 I hope so. 423 00:20:16,832 --> 00:20:18,499 You hear anything about all the fires? 424 00:20:18,534 --> 00:20:20,768 Seems like there's been a lot of them lately. 425 00:20:20,803 --> 00:20:23,971 Uh... I don't know about that. 426 00:20:24,006 --> 00:20:25,673 You know anything about the Empress? 427 00:20:28,644 --> 00:20:30,478 Y-you think I had something to do with that? 428 00:20:35,451 --> 00:20:37,452 Come on. A place that big? 429 00:20:37,486 --> 00:20:39,854 Uh, I wouldn't know where to start. 430 00:20:39,888 --> 00:20:42,156 I don't know. You seem pretty creative. 431 00:20:42,191 --> 00:20:44,158 No. No, no way. 432 00:20:44,193 --> 00:20:45,960 Look, I-I saw that thing. 433 00:20:45,994 --> 00:20:47,495 You were there? 434 00:20:47,529 --> 00:20:52,633 Yeah. I-I was there. So-so was everybody else. 435 00:20:52,668 --> 00:20:55,203 Although Tommy fit the description of the person 436 00:20:55,237 --> 00:20:57,805 who was responsible for the Empress Hotel fire, 437 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,708 his body language was telling me something completely different 438 00:21:00,742 --> 00:21:02,977 than it had in all the past interviews. 439 00:21:03,011 --> 00:21:05,313 It said, "I'm not the one who did this fire... 440 00:21:05,347 --> 00:21:07,381 nor are you gonna pin this fire on me." 441 00:21:07,416 --> 00:21:08,983 I told you. 442 00:21:09,017 --> 00:21:10,785 I haven't heard anything. 443 00:21:10,819 --> 00:21:12,353 Come on. You must have heard something. 444 00:21:12,387 --> 00:21:13,554 I know you guys talk. 445 00:21:13,589 --> 00:21:15,656 No! No. Nothing. 446 00:21:15,691 --> 00:21:17,525 Not a word? 447 00:21:17,559 --> 00:21:18,659 No. 448 00:21:21,063 --> 00:21:23,998 Nobody wants to talk about that. 449 00:21:24,032 --> 00:21:24,999 Why not? 450 00:21:29,204 --> 00:21:32,173 Nobody was talking about the Empress Hotel fire. 451 00:21:32,207 --> 00:21:34,709 When you go to jail and you're known as a rat, 452 00:21:34,743 --> 00:21:37,345 some things could happen to you. 453 00:21:37,379 --> 00:21:39,080 You never want to be labelled a rat. 454 00:21:40,582 --> 00:21:42,183 How'd it go? 455 00:21:42,217 --> 00:21:45,052 We don't have anything to hold him on, I had to let him go. 456 00:21:45,087 --> 00:21:47,088 When I asked him about the Empress, I don't know, 457 00:21:47,122 --> 00:21:48,322 something was off. 458 00:21:48,357 --> 00:21:49,991 You think he's hiding something? 459 00:21:50,025 --> 00:21:51,893 I think he's scared. 460 00:21:51,927 --> 00:21:53,928 Of what? 461 00:21:53,962 --> 00:21:56,364 Maybe he knows who did it and he's scared of what'll happen 462 00:21:56,398 --> 00:21:58,900 if he talks. 463 00:21:58,934 --> 00:22:01,903 At that point, we had nothing else to go on. 464 00:22:01,937 --> 00:22:05,339 You feel like you owe the public the answers. 465 00:22:05,374 --> 00:22:07,275 and you're just not getting them. 466 00:22:07,309 --> 00:22:08,543 And it's crushing. 467 00:22:14,984 --> 00:22:18,187 A year had passed since the time of the Empress Hotel fire, 468 00:22:18,221 --> 00:22:20,956 and I was at a stalemate. 469 00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:22,791 I couldn't find a fire setter 470 00:22:22,826 --> 00:22:25,494 capable of setting the Empress Hotel fire. 471 00:22:25,528 --> 00:22:26,829 The trail had gotten cold. 472 00:22:30,934 --> 00:22:32,835 I always second guessed myself. 473 00:22:32,869 --> 00:22:35,070 Did I do everything I could have possibly done 474 00:22:35,105 --> 00:22:36,472 to solve this case? 475 00:22:36,506 --> 00:22:38,640 Have I missed something? 476 00:22:38,675 --> 00:22:42,511 I was having a hard time dealing with it. 477 00:22:42,545 --> 00:22:44,313 No new leads. 478 00:22:44,347 --> 00:22:47,816 I thought maybe the fire setter had left the area. 479 00:22:47,851 --> 00:22:50,018 And then I got a call about a new fire. 480 00:22:51,921 --> 00:22:54,323 One that looked like an attempted murder. 481 00:22:58,762 --> 00:23:01,930 Looks like at least two of the fire alarms were disconnected. 482 00:23:01,965 --> 00:23:04,333 Luckily, a third one went off before the fire 483 00:23:04,367 --> 00:23:05,934 got out of control. 484 00:23:13,777 --> 00:23:15,844 Looks like they tried to burn down the wall. 485 00:23:15,879 --> 00:23:17,246 Was anyone next door? 486 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,682 No. No. We're still trying to determine who lives there. 487 00:23:20,717 --> 00:23:23,352 And whose apartment is this? 488 00:23:23,386 --> 00:23:27,422 Uh, Stewart Poirier. 489 00:23:27,457 --> 00:23:28,891 Stewart Poirier. 490 00:23:28,925 --> 00:23:30,192 Yeah. 491 00:23:30,226 --> 00:23:32,060 I put him away last year. 492 00:23:32,095 --> 00:23:34,263 Well, he's lived here a couple of months. 493 00:23:34,297 --> 00:23:35,597 Looks like he's out. 494 00:23:35,632 --> 00:23:37,132 Mark. 495 00:23:37,167 --> 00:23:39,802 I need you to put a BOLO out for Stewart Poirier. 496 00:23:39,836 --> 00:23:42,037 Yeah, the guy we talked to right after the Empress, 497 00:23:42,071 --> 00:23:43,372 the guy with the pipe bomb. 498 00:23:43,406 --> 00:23:46,642 I told you guys! I told you guys this is gonna happen! 499 00:23:46,676 --> 00:23:47,643 I'll call you back. 500 00:23:47,677 --> 00:23:48,977 Sir? Do you live here? 501 00:23:49,012 --> 00:23:50,913 Yeah, I live here. What did Stewart do? 502 00:23:50,947 --> 00:23:52,481 We've had a fire in the apartment, 503 00:23:52,515 --> 00:23:54,917 and we have reason to believe it may have been set deliberately. 504 00:23:54,951 --> 00:23:57,052 Of course, it was! The guy wanted to kill me! 505 00:23:57,086 --> 00:23:58,287 OK, what happened? 506 00:23:58,321 --> 00:23:59,621 He's crazy! 507 00:23:59,656 --> 00:24:02,891 He's always fighting, arguing, playing with matches. 508 00:24:02,926 --> 00:24:07,729 Moping around and mumbling, till he gets pissed or mad or drunk. 509 00:24:07,764 --> 00:24:09,731 When was the last time that you saw him? 510 00:24:09,766 --> 00:24:12,134 When he came back to the apartment this morning. 511 00:24:12,168 --> 00:24:14,269 I told him if he kept playing with fire, 512 00:24:14,304 --> 00:24:16,338 he was going to kill someone. 513 00:24:16,372 --> 00:24:17,639 Then he looked right at me 514 00:24:17,674 --> 00:24:19,942 and said he was gonna burn me to death. 515 00:24:19,976 --> 00:24:22,644 Do you have any idea where I might be able to find him? 516 00:24:22,679 --> 00:24:23,846 I don't know. 517 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,081 Maybe the Good Shepherd Ministries. 518 00:24:26,115 --> 00:24:27,983 I've seen him down there a couple of times. 519 00:24:28,017 --> 00:24:29,618 Ask for Father Ed. 520 00:24:29,652 --> 00:24:31,520 OK. Thank you. 521 00:24:34,457 --> 00:24:37,159 Not only am I concerned that I don't know where Poirier is, 522 00:24:37,193 --> 00:24:40,762 he is much more sophisticated than I initially thought. 523 00:24:40,797 --> 00:24:43,765 The smoke alarm systems were dismantled, 524 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,934 door knobs were dismantled 525 00:24:45,969 --> 00:24:49,638 so that people wouldn't be able to get out of their apartments. 526 00:24:49,672 --> 00:24:52,374 This was concerning to me, because this wasn't someone 527 00:24:52,408 --> 00:24:54,309 who was just randomly starting a fire 528 00:24:54,344 --> 00:24:56,044 because he had a fight with a neighbour. 529 00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:57,713 He actually put thought into this. 530 00:24:57,747 --> 00:25:00,048 He was very methodical about the way he did it, 531 00:25:00,083 --> 00:25:02,317 what time of night he was doing it at. 532 00:25:02,352 --> 00:25:04,620 And, tried to set the fires in the areas 533 00:25:04,654 --> 00:25:08,457 that were the only way out for the tenants of the building. 534 00:25:08,491 --> 00:25:11,360 I've only come across him once before, 535 00:25:11,394 --> 00:25:13,228 and did I ever underestimate him. 536 00:25:14,864 --> 00:25:16,999 And so how did you know Stewart? 537 00:25:17,033 --> 00:25:19,201 I met him when he first came to Toronto, years ago, 538 00:25:19,235 --> 00:25:21,036 through the Ministry. 539 00:25:21,070 --> 00:25:23,238 We tried to be there for him when he needed us. 540 00:25:23,273 --> 00:25:26,675 Uh, money, medicine, housing. 541 00:25:26,709 --> 00:25:28,477 He wasn't always easy to help. 542 00:25:28,511 --> 00:25:29,511 Thank you. 543 00:25:31,447 --> 00:25:34,917 We have reason to believe that he's been setting fires. 544 00:25:34,951 --> 00:25:38,153 He may have tried to kill someone. 545 00:25:38,187 --> 00:25:42,424 Does that seem like Stewart, Father Ed? 546 00:25:42,458 --> 00:25:47,396 You have to understand, he's been hurt his entire life. 547 00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:50,766 He doesn't know how to process it. 548 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,435 When he gets angry, when he feels threatened, 549 00:25:53,469 --> 00:25:55,370 he can lash out. 550 00:25:58,808 --> 00:26:02,544 When I talked to him, he seemed very calm. 551 00:26:02,578 --> 00:26:04,446 Almost childlike. 552 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,883 Well, he struggles to control his impulses. 553 00:26:07,917 --> 00:26:10,285 A few years ago, he started getting more aggressive. 554 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,020 His behaviour deteriorated. 555 00:26:12,055 --> 00:26:16,058 Fighting, vandalism. 556 00:26:16,092 --> 00:26:18,694 We gave him several bans from the Ministry, 557 00:26:18,728 --> 00:26:20,896 often for months at a time. 558 00:26:20,930 --> 00:26:22,364 Did you stay connected? 559 00:26:22,398 --> 00:26:25,534 Yes. As I've done with others in similar situations, 560 00:26:25,568 --> 00:26:29,638 he'd call me, I'd meet him outside, bring him food. 561 00:26:29,672 --> 00:26:34,109 Money on occasion, so he could get a place to sleep. 562 00:26:34,143 --> 00:26:35,410 But then... 563 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,114 there was another incident. 564 00:26:39,148 --> 00:26:44,152 He uh, he attacked several staff members, made threats. 565 00:26:44,187 --> 00:26:47,422 We were forced to give him a two-year ban. 566 00:26:47,457 --> 00:26:49,825 But you continued to help him? 567 00:26:49,859 --> 00:26:52,494 Well, what kind of a person would I be if I didn't? 568 00:26:52,528 --> 00:26:55,764 But I can only do what I believe is right. 569 00:26:55,798 --> 00:26:58,567 Do you know where I can find him? 570 00:26:58,601 --> 00:27:01,970 I don't know where he is. 571 00:27:02,005 --> 00:27:04,706 But if he comes to me for help, I'll let you know. 572 00:27:05,975 --> 00:27:09,011 Stewart's in the area, he's out of custody, 573 00:27:09,045 --> 00:27:10,579 and he's lighting fires. 574 00:27:10,613 --> 00:27:12,347 Father Ed, my father's dead. 575 00:27:12,382 --> 00:27:13,815 Fuck, fuck. 576 00:27:13,850 --> 00:27:16,818 Get away! 577 00:27:16,853 --> 00:27:20,789 Detective Harris, Stewart was here, asking for money. 578 00:27:20,823 --> 00:27:23,191 I refused him and tried to get him to stay, but... 579 00:27:23,226 --> 00:27:24,626 Do you know where he is? 580 00:27:24,660 --> 00:27:25,761 He's still outside. 581 00:27:25,795 --> 00:27:27,329 He's agitated. 582 00:27:27,363 --> 00:27:30,699 He said if he sees any police, he's going to kill them. 583 00:27:30,733 --> 00:27:33,301 He has a knife. 584 00:27:33,336 --> 00:27:34,669 We found Poirier, and he's armed. 585 00:27:34,704 --> 00:27:37,105 Let's get uni's over there right now and bring him in safe. 586 00:27:37,140 --> 00:27:39,027 You got it. 587 00:27:40,877 --> 00:27:43,779 Don't you come near me! 588 00:27:50,653 --> 00:27:56,691 No. No. No. No. No. No! No! No! 589 00:27:56,726 --> 00:27:58,527 Don't get out of the car! 590 00:27:58,561 --> 00:28:00,629 No-no-no-no! 591 00:28:00,663 --> 00:28:03,665 No! 592 00:28:05,101 --> 00:28:07,069 Stewart? 593 00:28:07,103 --> 00:28:08,737 Stewart Poirier. 594 00:28:08,771 --> 00:28:10,372 Stewart? 595 00:28:10,406 --> 00:28:12,574 We're gonna have to bring you in, OK? 596 00:28:12,608 --> 00:28:14,376 You all right? 597 00:28:14,410 --> 00:28:16,778 You have anything on you we should know about? 598 00:28:18,948 --> 00:28:20,882 Don't do that, Stewart. 599 00:28:20,917 --> 00:28:22,884 I-I'm not coming with you. 600 00:28:22,919 --> 00:28:24,319 We just want to talk to you. 601 00:28:24,353 --> 00:28:27,022 I'm -I'm gonna, I'm gonna kill you. 602 00:28:27,056 --> 00:28:29,024 I'm gonna kill myself. 603 00:28:29,058 --> 00:28:30,525 Stewart, we don't want that. 604 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,328 We just want to talk. OK? Just talk. 605 00:28:33,362 --> 00:28:36,031 Don't you want to talk? 606 00:28:36,065 --> 00:28:37,899 Stewart knew he was cornered. 607 00:28:37,934 --> 00:28:39,835 He had set a fire to his own apartment. 608 00:28:39,869 --> 00:28:42,904 He'd tried to kill some of the occupants of that building. 609 00:28:42,939 --> 00:28:46,441 He knew he was going away for a long time. 610 00:28:46,476 --> 00:28:48,009 Look at this. 611 00:28:48,044 --> 00:28:49,277 Alcoholic father. 612 00:28:49,312 --> 00:28:50,779 Can't read or write. 613 00:28:50,813 --> 00:28:52,781 Twelve years in a mental institution, 614 00:28:52,815 --> 00:28:54,950 starting at seven years of age. 615 00:28:54,984 --> 00:28:56,785 Said he was abused there, too. 616 00:28:58,054 --> 00:28:59,688 He's been hurt by almost everybody 617 00:28:59,722 --> 00:29:01,156 who's ever been close to him. 618 00:29:04,127 --> 00:29:06,261 I feel sorry for him. 619 00:29:06,295 --> 00:29:10,632 He's not taking care of himself, he has mental health challenges. 620 00:29:10,666 --> 00:29:14,102 He never had much of a chance, did he? 621 00:29:14,137 --> 00:29:19,608 I'm surprised that he could be that same monster... 622 00:29:19,642 --> 00:29:21,910 that's trying to kill people in a fire. 623 00:29:24,747 --> 00:29:26,748 I know that there's another side to him 624 00:29:26,782 --> 00:29:31,086 that I myself haven't seen yet, but it's there. 625 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,921 Would you like something to drink, Stewart? 626 00:29:32,955 --> 00:29:34,322 Water? Coffee? 627 00:29:37,793 --> 00:29:39,928 Juice? 628 00:29:39,962 --> 00:29:41,630 C-can I get some juice? 629 00:29:41,664 --> 00:29:42,931 Sure. 630 00:29:57,013 --> 00:30:00,048 How did you set that fire in your apartment? 631 00:30:03,686 --> 00:30:06,521 Lighter fluid. 632 00:30:06,556 --> 00:30:10,091 The cheap stuff. 633 00:30:10,126 --> 00:30:13,929 Two dollars and forty-nine cents. 634 00:30:13,963 --> 00:30:16,965 And Lysol. 635 00:30:16,999 --> 00:30:20,969 I put it on the bed frame, the mattress. 636 00:30:21,003 --> 00:30:23,972 Then I set everything up against the wall. 637 00:30:24,006 --> 00:30:26,174 Why? 638 00:30:30,179 --> 00:30:33,148 I was mad. 639 00:30:33,182 --> 00:30:34,916 At a guy in my building. 640 00:30:37,587 --> 00:30:40,488 Did you want to scare him? 641 00:30:40,523 --> 00:30:42,824 Can I... can we pass on that question? 642 00:30:42,858 --> 00:30:44,125 Sure. 643 00:30:52,902 --> 00:30:57,606 So, you set the fire, and then what? 644 00:31:02,178 --> 00:31:04,713 I watched... 645 00:31:04,747 --> 00:31:06,281 to see it burn. 646 00:31:09,218 --> 00:31:13,255 The firefighters, they got there too fast. 647 00:31:13,289 --> 00:31:15,023 So I took off. 648 00:31:22,131 --> 00:31:26,067 I set my dad's house on, on fire. 649 00:31:26,102 --> 00:31:27,636 A long time ago. 650 00:31:30,473 --> 00:31:33,541 Why? 651 00:31:33,576 --> 00:31:40,048 Because of the way he hurt me when I was a kid. 652 00:31:40,082 --> 00:31:43,118 I'm sorry about that, Stewart. 653 00:31:43,152 --> 00:31:47,122 I truly am. 654 00:31:47,156 --> 00:31:48,556 Anything else? 655 00:31:48,591 --> 00:31:51,092 Any fires you never told anyone about? 656 00:31:54,497 --> 00:31:57,732 There... there was that wood chipper. 657 00:31:57,767 --> 00:32:01,202 Down by the Don River. 658 00:32:01,237 --> 00:32:04,873 I-I tried to cut the gas line. 659 00:32:04,907 --> 00:32:06,841 I couldn't get through it. 660 00:32:09,745 --> 00:32:12,414 I watched it go up, though. 661 00:32:12,448 --> 00:32:14,549 I watched it for quite a while. 662 00:32:16,352 --> 00:32:17,786 That was a big one. 663 00:32:26,529 --> 00:32:28,296 Can we turn that thing off? 664 00:32:35,004 --> 00:32:38,606 I want to tell you something. 665 00:32:38,641 --> 00:32:40,275 I'm sorry, we can't, Stewart. 666 00:32:40,309 --> 00:32:41,910 It has to stay on. 667 00:32:41,944 --> 00:32:45,180 It's to protect you so that we don't say 668 00:32:45,214 --> 00:32:47,649 you said something you didn't. Right? 669 00:32:52,288 --> 00:32:54,989 You remember that... 670 00:32:55,024 --> 00:32:56,658 that big... 671 00:32:56,692 --> 00:32:59,194 big, big, big building? 672 00:32:59,228 --> 00:33:00,795 Down by the mall? 673 00:33:00,830 --> 00:33:04,499 The one right beside the record shop? 674 00:33:04,533 --> 00:33:06,368 Yes. I think so. 675 00:33:08,337 --> 00:33:09,804 I did that one, too. 676 00:33:18,347 --> 00:33:21,015 Stewart? 677 00:33:21,050 --> 00:33:24,152 Can we stop? 678 00:33:24,186 --> 00:33:27,155 Stewart? Did you set the Empress Hotel on fire? 679 00:33:27,189 --> 00:33:30,325 Can, can we stop... now? 680 00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:34,295 I wa-I want to stop right here. 681 00:33:34,330 --> 00:33:38,600 OK. OK. We'll take a break. 682 00:33:43,606 --> 00:33:46,674 He's confessing to all kinds of fires. 683 00:33:46,709 --> 00:33:51,379 We had no records of this, nothing in his file. 684 00:33:51,414 --> 00:33:54,082 But even after finding out about this long history of 685 00:33:54,116 --> 00:33:58,720 fire setting, the Empress Hotel seemed like an outlier. 686 00:34:04,019 --> 00:34:07,421 Stewart was shutting down on us and I needed something that 687 00:34:07,456 --> 00:34:11,158 would make me believe that he set the Empress Hotel fire. 688 00:34:11,193 --> 00:34:12,927 I wasn't sure. 689 00:34:12,961 --> 00:34:15,496 I need to protect the public from him, 690 00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:18,199 and how am I gonna do that? 691 00:34:18,233 --> 00:34:21,102 You think he's telling the truth? 692 00:34:21,136 --> 00:34:22,536 About the Empress? 693 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,042 It doesn't seem like it fits his pattern. 694 00:34:28,076 --> 00:34:29,410 He's impulsive, you know? 695 00:34:29,444 --> 00:34:32,113 If he gets mad at somebody, somebody, he lights a match. 696 00:34:32,147 --> 00:34:35,216 The Empress seems too well planned. 697 00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:38,252 Could be he's just taking credit. 698 00:34:38,286 --> 00:34:41,589 Big fire might make him feel important. 699 00:34:41,623 --> 00:34:43,924 Either way, we've got to get him talking, get details, 700 00:34:43,959 --> 00:34:45,793 see if they match up. 701 00:34:45,827 --> 00:34:46,861 He's shutting down in there. 702 00:34:46,895 --> 00:34:48,029 He doesn't trust us. 703 00:34:48,063 --> 00:34:50,197 Not yet. 704 00:34:50,232 --> 00:34:54,402 We're going back in there, I want you to take the lead. 705 00:34:57,739 --> 00:35:00,641 Mark and I decided we'd have a different tactic. 706 00:35:00,676 --> 00:35:05,112 We'd go back into the room and change it up a little bit. 707 00:35:05,147 --> 00:35:08,649 I'd go hard on Poirier to push him towards Mark. 708 00:35:12,954 --> 00:35:16,957 It wasn't something I was looking forward to. 709 00:35:16,992 --> 00:35:20,594 You can't charge me with that big fire, can you? 710 00:35:20,629 --> 00:35:23,964 I could. If I believed you. 711 00:35:23,999 --> 00:35:27,168 But... I think you're lying. 712 00:35:27,202 --> 00:35:30,071 No... No. 713 00:35:30,105 --> 00:35:33,841 Yeah. I don't think you could have set that fire. 714 00:35:33,875 --> 00:35:35,810 It's too big. 715 00:35:35,844 --> 00:35:38,646 It's too much for you. 716 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,681 My partner here, he thinks you did it, but... 717 00:35:40,716 --> 00:35:43,317 he's easily fooled. 718 00:35:43,351 --> 00:35:46,153 Me, not so much. 719 00:35:46,188 --> 00:35:48,089 I... I'm not lying. 720 00:35:48,123 --> 00:35:50,858 Hm. I don't know. 721 00:35:50,892 --> 00:35:52,493 Maybe you can talk to Mark about it, 722 00:35:52,527 --> 00:35:54,795 but I don't think I want to listen to this anymore. 723 00:36:03,071 --> 00:36:04,338 Man, she's tough. 724 00:36:06,641 --> 00:36:09,276 She's always... 725 00:36:09,311 --> 00:36:12,146 giving me a hard time. 726 00:36:12,180 --> 00:36:16,784 Look, Stewart, I-I know you did this thing. 727 00:36:16,818 --> 00:36:18,786 I'm impressed, I gotta tell you. 728 00:36:18,820 --> 00:36:20,554 I just... 729 00:36:20,589 --> 00:36:22,056 I just wish she believed you. 730 00:36:24,926 --> 00:36:27,962 You know, she might be impressed if you... 731 00:36:27,996 --> 00:36:30,464 told me a little more about it. 732 00:36:30,499 --> 00:36:34,235 Impressed by both of us. You know? 733 00:36:34,269 --> 00:36:36,303 I could get the real story out of you. 734 00:36:36,338 --> 00:36:39,073 It'd be a real win for me. She'd like that. 735 00:36:39,107 --> 00:36:41,008 And she'd see that... 736 00:36:41,042 --> 00:36:44,044 that you really did do it. 737 00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:45,813 What do you say? 738 00:36:45,847 --> 00:36:49,083 You want to tell me what really happened? 739 00:36:49,117 --> 00:36:52,219 How'd you manage it? 740 00:36:52,254 --> 00:36:53,621 Is she coming back? 741 00:36:55,891 --> 00:36:56,924 Who? 742 00:36:58,026 --> 00:37:00,528 Debbie. 743 00:37:00,562 --> 00:37:03,731 Is she coming back? 744 00:37:03,765 --> 00:37:05,099 Yeah. 745 00:37:05,133 --> 00:37:06,467 Yeah, she's coming back. 746 00:37:10,105 --> 00:37:12,039 Hey. 747 00:37:12,073 --> 00:37:14,441 You want to help me show her how dangerous you are? 748 00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:23,484 I get a kick out of it. 749 00:37:26,321 --> 00:37:28,689 Out of what? 750 00:37:28,723 --> 00:37:31,258 The flames. 751 00:37:31,293 --> 00:37:35,196 Fire. Burning people. 752 00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:39,099 That's why I burned my place. 753 00:37:39,134 --> 00:37:42,403 You wanted to hurt your neighbour? 754 00:37:42,437 --> 00:37:46,974 That's why I unhooked the fire alarms. 755 00:37:47,008 --> 00:37:49,276 So he couldn't get out. 756 00:37:52,247 --> 00:37:53,981 So he would burn. 757 00:37:55,851 --> 00:37:58,052 And die. 758 00:37:58,086 --> 00:38:01,956 He watched from behind a tree as the fire department pulled up. 759 00:38:01,990 --> 00:38:04,658 And he was actually sad. 760 00:38:04,693 --> 00:38:06,460 He was sad that they came. 761 00:38:06,494 --> 00:38:08,495 He was sad that they put out the fire, 762 00:38:08,530 --> 00:38:11,932 because he wanted those people to burn inside that building, 763 00:38:11,967 --> 00:38:13,968 and he wanted to watch it. 764 00:38:17,772 --> 00:38:22,109 Very seldom in one's career would you run into someone 765 00:38:22,143 --> 00:38:24,144 who would be a pyromaniac. 766 00:38:24,179 --> 00:38:28,315 And I knew I was staring at one right there at that moment. 767 00:38:33,889 --> 00:38:36,423 And what about the Empress? 768 00:38:36,458 --> 00:38:40,194 Were you trying to hurt people there, too? 769 00:38:40,228 --> 00:38:41,495 Stewart? 770 00:38:43,398 --> 00:38:46,433 How did you get inside? 771 00:38:46,468 --> 00:38:50,170 Through the back. 772 00:38:50,205 --> 00:38:54,041 Even knew that there's a door. 773 00:38:54,075 --> 00:38:56,710 It was open. 774 00:38:56,745 --> 00:38:59,346 Had you been there before? 775 00:38:59,381 --> 00:39:02,049 I had my eye on the place. 776 00:39:02,083 --> 00:39:04,785 I knew exactly where to go. 777 00:39:04,819 --> 00:39:08,989 As he's talking about the greatest fire that he's done, 778 00:39:09,024 --> 00:39:13,327 he's got details that we never released to the public. 779 00:39:13,361 --> 00:39:14,828 And he's given those details 780 00:39:14,863 --> 00:39:17,064 as part of his description of that fire. 781 00:39:17,098 --> 00:39:20,034 So I knew that Stewart was the one who went in 782 00:39:20,068 --> 00:39:22,002 and lit that Empress Hotel fire. 783 00:39:24,005 --> 00:39:26,974 There was wood everywhere. 784 00:39:27,008 --> 00:39:31,412 They didn't clean it up right, you know? 785 00:39:31,446 --> 00:39:34,915 It was completely messy. 786 00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:37,284 So uh, I made two piles... 787 00:39:39,220 --> 00:39:45,359 put gas on 'em, and made a path in between both. 788 00:39:45,393 --> 00:39:47,995 Then what? 789 00:39:48,029 --> 00:39:50,130 Then I made sure I could get out. 790 00:39:52,901 --> 00:39:55,235 I didn't want to get caught in the fire. 791 00:39:59,975 --> 00:40:01,775 I almost didn't make it. 792 00:40:04,312 --> 00:40:05,579 But I did. 793 00:40:10,885 --> 00:40:12,486 And it burned. 794 00:40:14,723 --> 00:40:17,591 And it burned like hell. 795 00:40:19,127 --> 00:40:20,928 It burned like hell. 796 00:40:20,962 --> 00:40:23,731 It burned like mother-fucking hell. 797 00:40:28,336 --> 00:40:29,770 Where's Debbie? 798 00:40:32,974 --> 00:40:35,075 Where's Debbie? 799 00:40:45,186 --> 00:40:47,454 53-year-old Stewart Poirier was arrested 800 00:40:47,489 --> 00:40:49,556 earlier this month when police linked him 801 00:40:49,591 --> 00:40:52,059 to the high-profile Yonge Street arson, 802 00:40:52,093 --> 00:40:54,128 but new paperwork filed in court today 803 00:40:54,162 --> 00:40:57,097 adds twenty-nine charges to the list. 804 00:40:57,132 --> 00:40:59,466 Between April 2010 and this month, 805 00:40:59,501 --> 00:41:02,669 Poirier is accused of setting 13 different fires. 806 00:41:02,704 --> 00:41:06,473 Six of those fires were set in one day alone. 807 00:41:06,508 --> 00:41:11,345 And I looked at Stewart in the courtroom 808 00:41:11,379 --> 00:41:13,647 and I was worried for his safety. 809 00:41:13,681 --> 00:41:17,151 I was worried for what other inmates would do to him. 810 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,923 But at the same time, I knew he was dangerous, 811 00:41:22,957 --> 00:41:25,492 and we had to put him away. 812 00:41:28,663 --> 00:41:30,864 He didn't last in jail. 813 00:41:30,899 --> 00:41:34,168 Within three months, Stewart died. 814 00:41:34,202 --> 00:41:37,771 We weren't aware that he had cancer. 815 00:41:37,806 --> 00:41:41,375 In an odd way, I felt relieved. 816 00:41:41,409 --> 00:41:43,610 I didn't want Stewart suffering. 817 00:41:50,151 --> 00:41:52,653 I went through his personal belongings, 818 00:41:57,258 --> 00:41:59,660 I don't know if they were ever claimed. 819 00:42:03,810 --> 00:42:11,061 - Sync and corrections by ByDem - - www.addic7ed.com - 60674

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