All language subtitles for The Curious Case of Natalia Grace s02e05

Today, Michael and Natalia
get back together
to have a chat.

This is round two.

Michael's lawyer,
Terrance Kinnard,

and Natalia's father,
Antwon Mans, cannot be there.

So, the two who were arguing
the month earlier,

they're gone, and now it is
just Natalia and Michael.

I do want
to hear Michael out,

but, like,
I'm kind of expecting
the unexpected here.

I think I'm just
really nervous
about what he says

and how it will affect me.

I have a lot of questions

and all I'm asking is
that just... just answer them.

So, I'm just...

I'm... legit,
like, nervous right now.

Michael really wants
some resolution here.

He wants some peace of mind.
He needs to put this to rest.

Meeting Natalia,

I'm looking for all
these different pieces

of... of warning signs,

like an early
warning system, right?

You know,
for people like my mother

who grew up
in the '50s and '60s

and they had to deal
with things
like nuclear bomb sirens,

they're waiting for any sound
to tell you
something's falling.

If I'm talking to Natalia,

and I hear...

Is that the wind?

Ha, it's not falling.

I am on edge
and on nerve.

Then we have Natalia,
who really needs some answers.

She was very unfulfilled
after the trial

and she's gonna ask
some hard questions of Michael

and she needs to know

why she was treated
the way she was.

There's a lot of stuff
that I want to ask Michael.

Why did they adopt me
in the first place?

What made them
change their mind?

Why didn't he step in
when I was fighting
with Kristine?

Like, why didn't Michael
defend me?

Why didn't Michael even
just take me out of there?

Of course
Natalia wants answers, but...

she's running a risk here,
because Michael has triggers.

I tried, I tried, I tried!

- You know, I wanted to talk with you.
- -No!

Let me--

-Let's--
-Leave me alone!

Is she running the risk
that he's gonna get up
and walk out again?

But you have to fight
to get to the truth.

I'm hopeful
that something is gonna
really uncover the truth

and that we're one step closer
to getting justice done.

I don't view
Natalia as a devil,

but I also don't view her
as an angel.

There's something sinister
about her.

Everywhere Natalia has been,

drama follows.

Everywhere Natalia has been,

families have been
in upheaval.

My opinion, Natalia is
a very damaged person,

who will hurt others

before the proverbial
"they hurt me."

This is
an opportunity for Natalia
that she's never had,

to sit down as an adult
and ask questions of Michael

and she gets to try
to hold him accountable

for what happened to her
years ago.

Michael,
whatever you got to say,
go ahead and say it.

I'm just praying
that it's actually the truth.

Given what happened
the first time

Michael and Natalia
got together
and he stormed out,

anything could happen
this time.

Hi.

Hi.

Ah!

Oy vey.
So, where were we?

Where do you want to start?

We could start
from where you left off.

I believe the question
we were on... was
why didn't I leave Kristine.

It's difficult
to understand.

But, after...

15 plus years of...

being put down,
and degraded, and controlled,
and threatened,

I didn't have
any strength at all
to stand up to her.

I... I wish I did.

Wish I did.

I didn't.

-You ever seen
the movie Monsters, Inc.?
-Yes.

You know, the same monster
goes through bunches
of doors and...

-Yeah.
-...all these kids
around the world

have the same monster,
but they don't know it?

Mmm-hmm.

We had the same monster

and we didn't know it.

For... years.

Everybody that knows me...

we... don't call her
by "Kristine."

Matter of fact,
I hate the word.

I don't like the word.
I don't like hearing the word.

Um... her name is "Evil."

Um, every now and then
I'll call her

"The Wicked Witch
of the South," but--

Sorry.

No, it's okay,
a little levity is all right.

But... she's earned it.

We had
the same monster

and we didn't know it.

For... years.

From the second interview
Michael gave us,

he was blaming Kristine
for a lot of the dysfunction
in the household.

Kristine was the purveyor
of the word "abuse."

Controlling, manipulating,
brainwashing.

Her nickname is "Evil"
and she's earned every letter.

And he's continuing to do that
in this conversation.

And Natalia's bonding with him
a little bit,

you know, they're having
their little trauma bonding,

that they were both abused
by Kristine

in different ways,
but they were both
victims of Kristine.

So, you can...
you can see that,

you can see her warming up
a little bit to him.

What do you know
that Kristine did to me?

I know some things.

Other things
I just learned.

And then this
is gonna sound silly...

I'm afraid of
what I don't know.

Like...

I know a little.

I don't know a lot.

Um...

What do you know?

It's a very long answer.

-I mean, that could...
that could take us a week.
-Just...

...the highlights.

Golly, I just...

Um...

Michael is being very careful,
whether he's worried
about a court of law,

civil or criminal,

or... just, you know,
the court of public opinion,
to use a cliche.

It just seems like
he's been advised

by his attorney
to steer clear,

or not admit
any kind of liability,

or incriminate you
in any way.

I'm so afraid of the things
I don't know about.

And I don't wanna know
the things I don't know about.

Because I know
they're all terrible.

And I'd rather
just not know

that there's
such horrible things
in the world.

But life doesn't give us
those opportunities.

The only chance

I have...

at an okay future,
and maybe you've got
a little of this in there too,

if all of us...

if every...

if everyone...

just stands up and says,

"This is what happens,
what she did."

If we do it all
at the same time,

she can't scream
and lie her way out of it.

He's continuing
to deflect.

You gotta wonder,

'cause his lawyers were
always present
at all the interviews,

including that first sit-down
with Natalia
that lasted only minutes.

His lawyer,
Terrance, is smart.

He may have
advised Michael

how to pivot away
from an answer and...

you know, deflect it
to Kristine.

- You got this.
- I know.

It's a brilliant deflection.

But that's not
being evasive.

My experience
with Michael,

I absolutely think
he suffers from PTSD
as a result of his marriage.

I think he still has
a lot of mental trauma

as a result of the loss
of his marriage.

And I know he believes
that Kristine is
the reason for that.

She has screamed
and screamed and screamed

horrific, horrific,
horrific lies.

I'm just like...

I think he's just trying
to get the criticism
of the public off of him

and trying to use the sympathy
to be like,

"I was victimized, too," like,
"Please don't come after me."

Like, "I was
a victim too in this."

But the thing is, for me,

yes, you were a victim,

but you also...

was the perpetrator.

You were an accomplice
of it all, too.

If Kristine was
this so-called monster,

he could have fought her.

I couldn't.

What was the conversation

about dropping me off
in the apartment?

What was that conversation?

Um, Westfield or Lafayette?

We'll start with Westfield.

Um...

Again, conversation...

Just what happened.

You have to understand there's
not a lot of conversation,
there's a lot of dictating.

Did you know
that she was...

getting me an ID?

Yes, I did.

At that point of time,

legally your age
had been altered by the state.

You, like anybody else,
need to have an ID.

Okay. Let's step back and...

What... Whose idea was it?

Was what?

With the age change.

I did tell all these guys
we're not getting
into that subject.

Why can't you say it?

Did you guys not...

- Yes.
- ...cover these parameters?

- I thought...
-I... I...
You know me.

- Not a... not a good idea.
-I understand.
I understand.

-I need to step outside
for a minute.
-Come outside.

It's not like
you guys are fighting.

- And I know that...
- Hey.

- Hi.
- Okay.

Michael doesn't want to talk
about changing my age.

Michael just left.
He was running away again.

You don't care.

Like, that's what I feel like.

They didn't care that they...

left a little girl
in an apartment
at eight years old,

changed her whole age
from 8 to 22.

That's, like,
a 15-year stretch.

Like, just admit it.

A lot of things
would have been different,

if they would have...
maybe just sent me back.

There were some ground rules
going into this,

and one of them was that

the re-aging is off-topic.

That is off the table,
not to be discussed.

I just... I wanna stay away
from things

that might be
too emotionally... touchy,
that's all.

Okay. We can step away
from that, 'cause I got
a lot of questions.

Okay.

Why not just put me
up for adoption again?

Unfortunately, the real answer
for that lies in Evil's head.

I can make
a couple assumptions
that are pretty good ones.

You're in that time

after Florida

and before the Ciccones
released you,
that six-month period,

where things just...

Something was wrong.

Something was off.

During that time,

I had...

the conversation
with the monster

about, "Look.
Things aren't working right.

Maybe this is
no harm, no foul.

We don't have to do anything,
'cause you legally were
still theirs.

Maybe we just walk
away from this
and... cool our jets."

And that was met with a very,
very, very, very, very, very,
very, very, very stern "No."

Why?

The deeper "why"

and this is all assumption
and allegedly,

so make sure you guys are
putting the word "allegedly"
over this,

like, in flashing letters,
right?

She saw... the adoption,

especially the adoption
of somebody
with special needs,

as...

a societal thing.

The one thing
we can always count on,

is Evil sure does love her
some attention.

And some cameras,
and some eyes on her,

and people worshipping her.

She wrote out a full
one-page piece of paper once

explaining to me
why she qualifies
for sainthood,

based on the two miracles
she's performed.

That's who
we're dealing with.

So, when you're dealing
with that level
of narcissist,

it's vaguely possible

that she saw the adoption

as a
"Aren't I a great person,
everyone?

Look at me.
Hey, neighbors! Look.

I'm... I'm so wonderful.
I'm so wonderful.
I'm so charitable."

She compared herself
to Oprah regularly.

She was gonna be the Oprah
for autistic kids.

I've heard this
so many times.

So, my assumption is,

the reason that
she wouldn't undo
where we were,

all those people that were,
"Hey, look at me. Look at me.
Look at me.

Aren't I great?
Aren't I great?
Aren't I great?

Wait, what do you mean
where's my newly
adopted daughter?

Oh, hell, I've got
to explain this."

Did she tell you
why she took me
out of school?

Um... she did.

I was told...
that you were a danger
to the other students,

that you were ramming
your wheelchair into them
on purpose,

that you had taken
your parking brake
off the wheelchair and hid it,

blah, blah... We don't need
to get into this, this is...

This is rough stuff.

She told me
that she was protecting
other first grade children

by removing you
from the class.

What I remember is
Kristine telling me that

she was getting a phone call
at 9 o'clock every single day.

I couldn't say whether she was
or wasn't getting a phone call
every day.

From my end of things,

she never told me
she was getting a phone call
every day.

According to Kristine,

she was getting complaints
from the school

that Natalia was intentionally
ramming her wheelchair
into the students.

Yes, the teacher stated
that Natalia had hit children
with the wheelchair.

He behavior was nothing
but extraordinary.

Did she ever
cause you any problems?

Oh, my gosh, no.
She was a delight.

My teacher said I...
that she never had
to call Kristine.

That I didn't do
what Kristine was claiming
that I did. Nothing.

Nobody did any of the things
she accused everyone of doing.

Yes. Natalia stated,
"I want to hurt
the other kids."

Yes.

"I don't like them."

Listen.

Michael and Kristine took
Natalia out of school

simply because
she did not belong there.

Even when she's not
with the Barnetts,

we have to remember

when Natalia lived
with the Ciccones
she was home-schooled.

So, at every stop
that Natalia's been,

there are all these reports
about her abhorrent behavior.

The story Natalia wants
to push forward now is,

"I was a victim
and I was victimized
by the Barnetts."

Natalia is
a broken young lady

that's being fixed
every day,

but Natalia is the sweetest,
the happiest little girl

that I've ever met
in my life.

Like, for everything
she's been through
I just can't say it enough

how... bright she is,
how smart she is,

how happy she is,
how thankful she is,

how much she loves God.

I would say
she has been, uh...

violent in a typical way,
like most kids do.

You know, most kids fight,
most kids argue.

But nothing unusual
to where there was just,

um, crazy unrest
in that sort of way.

There's nothing dangerous
about Natalia at all.

Absolutely not.

And then,
here's the big butthead
of everybody's lives.

See, there she goes,
being a butthead,
not even listening.

Okay, there's something
I don't wanna say,

'cause I think it will...
it might make her feel bad

and she's already felt bad
about it, but...
and then, it's like...

Okay, I will only say it
if you don't tell her.

She beat me
when I was a baby.

But the thing is,
she didn't know any better.

I mean, she did, but she said
it was, like, when she was 10.

And...

she didn't really know.

Bye-bye!

The Mans took her
to the hospital.

St. Franciscan.

And, you know, the report was,
she had harmed
one of their children.

And that she had been
disruptive in the house,
she had been violent.

And they wanted
to leave her there

and she wasn't welcome
back in their home.

And there was also
additional parts
of that report

where Natalia wanted
to take a taxi to go back
to the Mans

and, allegedly,
when the hospital reaches out
to the Mans,

they're told,
"She can't come back.
She's not welcome.

We don't want her
calling us anymore."

These reports were written
by medical staff.

Psychologists, psychiatrists,
MDs, counselors,
nursing staff.

When you look at
all the families

that she's been connected to
that we are aware of,

From the Ciccones,
to the Barnetts, to the Mans.

All of these families
are reporting similar
instances

where Natalias
has inflicted harm
on a family member.

Are we all saying
that all of these folks
are wrong and are liars

and that Natalia is simply
this innocent bystander?

She's this innocent wallflower
who's just been victimized
by all these families?

That defies logic.
Where there's smoke,
there's fire.

I never even spoke
with the hospital people
because she was an adult.

So they would not
let me in with her.

I feel like, Kristine
definitely must have
called the hospital

and told them
that this is what happened

and all of these things
because those are not
my words.

I don't know who drew that up,
who wrote that.

Because that was not
what's said.

Can we go back a little bit?

Go wherever you want.

Do you remember
the first time meeting me?

Yep, sure do.

Do you remember

meeting the family
I was with before?

Never met them.

They were in the room
across the hall from ours.

So we were each
in this two little--

I consider them like,
"bedroom-esque thing"
but little offices.

There was uh,
there was a hallway.

We got there before you did.

So we, Kristine,
I, the boys,
are in this room.

We can hear
the front door open.

We can hear voices,
we hear people
walking down the hall.

And we hear people
go into that room,
and we hear a voice

saying, "Well, just stay there
until you're ready."

The entire time,
Jacob, Wesley, Ethan, and I,

are at this door

with our ears pressed up
against it, like this,

trying to hear
everything we can.

"That's your new sister.
That's our new daughter."
What does she sound like?

"Hey, we heard her voice!"

"What... What did she do?"
"Hey, I think she said hi!"
I just...

We're doing that.
Ethan goes and gets a glass.

Puts the glass
against the wall.

We start looking
though the peep hole

to try to see
if we can see anything.

The boys spent the night
making shirts.

"We love you, Natalia.
Welcome home, sister."
They were so excited.

I remember everything
about the first day.

I remember that day too.

Um, I remember
sitting in a chair,

right across
from where you guys were.

But I also remembered
Diane and Gary
coming in the room.

I never met them.

They never came out
of the room.
They kept us totally separate.

The Adoption by Shepherd Care
people told us,

it was a closed adoption
and the surrendering family

did not want to share
any information with us
and did not want to meet us.

We've never met.
I have never met
Gary or Diane.

Well, I don't know
what that's about then.

I didn't know their names
until like a month later.

Um...

I remember...

Diane and Gary came out
and they told me that you guys
wanted to see me.

But they never came out
of the room and talked to us.
They just--

They came in, dropped you off.

Came back out, talked to other people and...
gone.

Natalia's six.
Does she really remember?

It's an event though,
that, you know,
she's meeting "new parents"

that she really
might remember.

She's leaving the old,
and meeting the new.

But what lends
a little credence

to Natalia's version,
is that she remembers

running into them
or seeing them
at Disney World

while they were in Florida.

And saying,
"Oh, you know, there's Mommy."

And Kristine saying, "No..."

I'm your mommy now.

That's really important.

Like that is a kind
of little fact,

like, why would
she make that up?

I mean, that, to me,
has a ring of truth.

Michael's adamant
that he didn't even know
the Ciccones' name

for a month, that this was
a closed adoption,
but we know

he and Kristine
had Natalia's medical records

and the Ciccones' names
were in the medical records

from the time
they adopted her.

And we know that
because the prosecutor
told us that.

Jackie Starbuck
told us that.

So, I don't know why
he insists upon continuing

to say it was
a closed adoption.

So, somebody is mistaken
or lying.

-I got a question for you.
-Yeah, I got lots
of answers for you.

You might not like
all of them,
but I got them.

I mean, look,
what you got to say,
I'm gonna hear it, okay?

Do you remember
putting a lock
on my door?

Yes.

The latch. Um, we were
actually told to do that by,
uh, the doctors.

Do you remember what happened
while you were putting
the lock on the door?

Nope.

So, you didn't realize
that Kristine
was hitting me or...

-At that moment?
-Hitting me with a belt

and letting the boys hit me
and letting Jacob drop me?

You didn't?

No.

Things relating
to Jacob...

I didn't learn
until two years ago
when Jacob came back.

And I just started
to learn those things.

He and I have been...

trying to figure out
how to mentally
come to terms with

things that

she forced them to do.

He is so, so sorry.

He is so sorry.

And I have to keep
reminding him

over and over and over
when we talk about this.

He was...

A child who was
being forced to do it.

And it wasn't him. It...

In the last three years,
Jacob and I have probably
cried together

over a hundred times
regarding...

this incident,
or that incident,
or this incident.

There are...

I wish I could tell you
a couple other things,
but I'm not allowed

to tell you while on camera
and on a microphone.

Some people took issue
with the airing of this
off-camera conversation

that Michael and Jacob
were having,
seemingly private

until they realized
it's a hot mic.

But it was very revealing.

And it's important
to get to the truth.

It shows Michael
is aware of the statute
of limitations.

And this
corroborates Natalia

when she says
she was beaten.

But what's really revealing
about it to me is that,

they chose incidents
to talk about.

And left things out.

Michael's in control.

There's a lot
of cross blinds of

who did

what and when.

Everything that Kristine
has ever said or claimed,
just assume is a lie.

The way Michael
is talking,

is just like last time.

He made it about himself.

And pretty much
blaming everything
on Kristine.

I'm here
to hear Michael out.

But, like, I want Michael
to know how I feel about this.

I want everybody to know
exactly how this affected me.

I want him to know what he did
was completely wrong.

How did you even feel

when Kristine
was beating me?

-Or--
-I will tell you
specifically how I felt.

One day, I come home
from work and...

You know already what...

the air at home was.

And I came in,

you were... Your nose
is on the wall in the kitchen.

And Kristine got up,

and she just looked at me,

"Back your wife up!"

And she went, grabbed you
off the wall.

She yanked you pretty good.

You're over there
and she gets you to here.

"Stay out of my way
or you'll never see
your sons again."

And she launches you
on the ground.

And the usual.

"Who are you?
Where have you been?"

And she's wailing.

I'm stunned
from what's going on.
I'm just... I'm shocked.

I'm frozen in fear.

And I know for a fact,
if I do anything,

I never see Wesley, Ethan,
or Jacob ever again.

And I hate to put it to you
in that fashion,

but I just wanted to have
my family all together.

So I start recording it.

And the only thing
I can think is, if I could
just show her,

"Look at this.
This is abhorrent."

I'm just thinking maybe
I could just show it to her
and she'll see how...

bad she is
and she'll stop.

She'll realize
she's gone too far
and she'll stop.

Except, she's crazy.

And logic's not gonna work.

So, when she's done,
she takes you up
to your room,

while she's up there, I get
my phone and I hit play on it
so I could look at it and...

it's just...

disgusting.

Unfortunately,
while I'm looking at it,

she showed up
right behind me

and if I ever want
to see my kids again,

I have to reset my phone
right now in front of her
and delete everything.

Michael, again,
was making up excuses.

That really hurts.

Instead of being a dad,
he was a coward.

To me, Michael is guilty.

Because he let it happen.

Kristine's not my mom.

High five. Up top.
There you go.

I stopped calling her
my mother the moment that she
just started doing everything,

-started saying everything.
She was never my mom!
-She's evil.

One time, when she was mad,

Kristine put me
in a pink dress

and she literally told me
to stand still like a gnome.

I think I was actually doing
a little bit of schoolwork.

I didn't get a question right
or something like that.

And then, she moved the chair
into like, the front of the
window, like there was like,

big window, that was in the,
um, in the dining room.

She literally made me
a cone hat,

gave me an apple,
put me in a pink dress,

and told me I had
to stand still like a gnome.

Just stand there. I can't lean
on the back of the chair,

nothing. I just had
to stand there like a gnome.

Like, literally,
I had to be like this.

Apple was in my hand,
just stand right here.

Just like a garden gnome.
Like, she literally told me
I couldn't move, nothing.

And I was there until Michael
got home from work.

Which was,
it was starting to get dark.

Neighbors were driving by,
nobody stopped
and said anything.

Put me in a pink
dress and told me I had to
stand still like a gnome.

I've read an exchange

that was in the court file
part of discovery.

This person close to Kristine,

asks her,
"How's the midget?"

And Kristine says,
"Still weird."

Think about that.

What does that tell you
about Kristine and like,
where her head is at?

It's really unbelievable
that she had this organization

that was dedicated to

helping raise awareness
about disabled people,

who were experiencing physical
and verbal abuse

and here she is,
I... I read it!
She's engaging in this.

In the same conversation,
they're talking about
little people as gnomes.

Keep them away.

Like, what are you
talking about?

Did Kristine hate me
because of my dwarfism?

That's how crazy it is.
Like, you wouldn't
think about that.

You would not think,
"Oh, I'm gonna dress
this person up as a gnome."

What?

I think Natalia
had a very rough upbringing.

However, at some level,

Natalia has to be aware
and accountable
for her own behavior.

When we look at the reports
from the Larue Carter
Hospital,

there's a central theme
to all of this.

And that theme has to do
with sexual promiscuity.

There are third party accounts
of these reports.

While Natalia
was at the state
mental hospital,

Kristine and I had gotten
phone calls from Larue Carter
after a while.

She is propositioning men
who are mental patients

for sexual activity,

and it's disturbing them
and she can't be here.

Those are the exact words.

What?

I don't even remember
none of that.

Like, I was a kid in an adult
section of a hospital.

And...

Like, I, I don't even remember
really being around
guys like that.

So I don't know
where all of this
is coming from.

I don't ever remember talking
about having a boyfriend
or wanting a boyfriend.

Natalia told me
that she was
in a mental hospital.

And they told her
after a full evaluation,

the doctors came and said
they couldn't find
nothing wrong with her.

She was a normal child.

But as far as
acting out in other ways?

She could have been acting out
for attention.

I mean, she was a child.

She probably wanted
to get attention
however she could.

You know, she could have been
acting out to make friends.

She could have been acting out
to gets some adults
that seen her

to realize, "Hey,
I'm struggling here.

Like, I don't know
what to do on my own."

It's like, if there is
a possibility that I did say
sexual comments,

I probably heard that
from somebody.

'Cause I was really little
and, like, I was
at that stage where, like,

not understanding what it is,
but I wanna say it

because I heard somebody else
say it so I'm thinking,
it's okay to say it.

The truth is that,

I feel like I got exposed
to sexual stuff
at a really young age.

In fact, like, Kristine tried
to set me up on a date

at seven years old
with a grown man.

Who knows what
could have happened?

Stuff happened while I was
in that Westfield apartment.

I got exposed
to sexual stuff.

I...

Kristine never taught me
how to take care of myself.

Kristine never taught me
anything about
stranger danger or...

She told me she did.

Did you know that she was
putting make-up on me?

One day,
I was playing in my room.

Kristine came in and she just
sat me down on the floor
in the kitchen

and she cut my hair.

She cut it off all the way
to, like, right here.

Like, shoulder-length.

And then, I remember
Kristine did my make-up.

Did you know that she
was trying to make me
look like an adult?

She can create drama
out of the most innocent
or benign situation.

Such as a mother
dressing up her daughter.

You have Kristine Barnett
doting over her only
female child.

If I factor in
the personality of Natalia,

It's easy for me to see
how she can turn
something so innocent

into something
more nefarious.

That's crazy.

Just seeing this?

This is crazy. This is,
like, too much.

I'm seven
years old, I shouldn't even
have make-up on.

When she did the make-up,

she literally told me,

"This is what an adult
looks like.

When a kid does their make-up,
they look like a clown."

Did you know that she was
sending them to a guy, trying
to get me put me on a date?

No.

I just found that out
three or four weeks ago.

It sounds like Kristine maybe,
you know, wanting to take
pictures of her to send

to Freddie Gill or whoever
she was trying to

set up Natalia
on a date with.

Thank God
Freddie told Kristine,
"Absolutely, no way!"

Kristine tried to set me up
with a guy when I was
seven years old.

With a grown man.

What if the guy
raped me?

Like, he could have did
anything. He could have
kidnapped me.

He could have
murdered me.

And, when she did that,

you were in the Westfield
apartment, right?

No, I was still
in the house.

You were still in the house?
Holy!

No, I didn't know that.

Did you ever have to speak
to any of these people or meet
any of these people?

No. I don't remember
talking to anybody.

I didn't even know she was
doing that until I found out
when I was...

2019 maybe?

Michael doesn't know
anything about this,
apparently.

That may be true.

I do believe that
there are things that
went on in that house

between Kristine and Natalia
that Michael's unaware of.

I'm sorry
that was your experience.

So it's possible
he didn't know,

and that he's hearing it
for the first time

'cause he seems
pretty sincere and apologetic.

I'm sorry that they
didn't have the wherewithal

to press the right charges
in the right place.

Like, they could still get her
right now if they wanted to.

Then again,
he is a good salesman.

Michael is an accomplice
to the monster.

Because he went along
with everything
that Kristine said.

I've had nightmares.

I've cried myself to sleep.

For years after.

You know what you
did was wrong,

but you're trying to keep it
under wraps.

He still let me be alone
with Kristine.

Everything that Kristine
told him, he told the world
like he was there.

She'd been diagnosed
a sociopath.

Con artist, grown up.

She was gonna
kill everybody.

But now he's
switching up, saying,

"I don't even remember what...
I don't know what happened."

I have a lot of suspicions
that I can't prove,
but I'm sure are there.

I lived through it.

Every time I talk about it,
I live through it.

You sound guilty with that.