All language subtitles for Elon Musk on The Don Lemon Show - Full Interview (720p_30fps_H264-192kbit_AAC).eng

[Music]

welcome to the Don Lemon show everyone

we're still here in a minute I'm going

to bring you my conversation with Elon

Musk the one that everyone is talking

about but first let me tell you a bit

about the show contrary to what you

might have heard we weren't cancelled by

X yes after months of begging me wooing

me to offer some exclusive content on

his platform Elon Musk decided to scrap

the deal but our plan is and always has

has been to release this show everywhere

on YouTube on Spotify on iHeart radio

just about any place you stream content

now for my conversation with Elon as

with all my interviews no restrictions

no ground rules nothing off limits or

out of bounds that is until the

interview ended so what went

wrong I don't know but my hope is that

you learned something about both Elon

and me two people who come from

completely different Vantage points on

almost every single issue and I

challenge you Elon to watch the whole

interview and tell the world why this

isn't what you claim you want on

X thank you for inviting us here you're

welcome Tesla headquarters I it's I'm

surprised how big it is I've never seen

it yeah it's about three times the size

of the Pentagon yeah we built it in 16

months it's the fastest construction

project in the United States since uh

World War II so I'm here you know as you

know I'm on the platform because you are

you say you're a free speech absolutist

right and there no conditions uh

yeah free speech is as as much as

possible within the bounds the law yeah

so the reason I'm saying that is because

there are no conditions on this

interview you said that you know we

speak to you for an hour I don't like

sound bite so I welcome that so let's

get into it so we're here in Austin

South by Southwest is going on we're at

the Tesla headquarters you are in the

process of moving SpaceX here I

understand no uh so uh space has a a

massive uh facility in south Texas where

we build and launch Starship and then we

we have um an bash near Austin we uh are

about to start production at a a

stalling uh a large Starling Factory for

stalling terminals but it's uh but we're

not shutting down any facilities in

California um listen we are here as part

of a launch of a news interview show

that is going to be on x.com uh it's

coming as a media industry as you know

is going through a whole lot of changes

X has also been affected by that where

do you see xcom's role in the future of

news and journalism

Elon well I I think the I see the the X

as uh it's it's already the number one

source of news uh in the world so it is

number one uh the number one way that

people actually are informed about any

kind of news meaning realtime events is

uh on the X platform forly Twitter um

there's there's nothing even close for

realtime news

so um we also want to expand upon that

um and we've we have done so with the

long form content so instead of just

doing what used to call tweets you canot

do long form posts you can post an

entire essay in fact you can now uh put

an entire book post an entire book to

the platform um you can do long form

video content uh so you can do uh up to

4-Hour video segments um we really want

news in whatever form it is or

information I should say in whatever

form it is to be available on our

platform whether it's short long text

pictures video whatever the case may be

yeah and some of the stuff that we do

long Fromm video interview shows what

have you you um you reached out over the

summer and you said it would be great to

have matto Don Lemon others on the left

put on this uh platform you receive full

support the digital Town Square is for

all what do you mean by that well just

mean that uh we want to make sure that

there are a wide variety of viewpoints

that it's uh you know we obviously have

for example tug cson who uh most people

will view as being on the right um and

uh you know that's that's a quite quite

a prominent name on the right we want to

have uh prominent names on the left as

well uh to provide uh different views of

points of view uh as well as Centrist

just basically a wide range of

viewpoints on the platforms so users can

uh hear different opinions uh you they

can hear you know what is what's your

point of view what's s's point of view

and make and you know and people can

make their own decision about what they

what they believe you didn't mean that

I'm on the left did you think that I

thought you were on the left but I don't

know I used well let's just say I don't

know what the left is or the right is

frankly these days because things can be

quite polarized but you seem my

impression was that you're you're you're

be more likely to be described as on the

left than the right

uh I might I might sense as you're sort

of Center left I don't know you tell me

well did you ever watch me on CNN or did

you watch I saw I saw say yeah yeah not

I I've saw segments yeah me CNN is

generally considered left yeah why do

you say

that why do I say CNN is generally

considered

left uh I think if if you look at any

sort of media survey of what is on the

left or right I think they would say

like for example Fox is is on the right

and CNN is on the left

yeah so that's what is it am I missing

something here okay are you missing

something I don't know I I think that

what you when I read that I said like

many uh of my critics or detractors they

never really watched me on CNN they just

saw the clips of me either on social

media or maybe on Fox news or

conservative media where it's sort of a

where I become a character or a

caricature of what I actually am and

it's taken out of context uh sure well

how would you describe yourself yourself

um I would describe myself as someone

who is I I I am independent in my

thinking and I vote for People based on

the issues and how I feel about it not

necessarily because uh of political

leaning of some sort well I agree with

that approach I think that's generally

how yeah how people should uh you know

take things which is I mean there there

are a whole sort of set of issues which

are sort of somewhat arbitrarily

bucketed into right or left um but I

think most I think most citizens

uh would think that they would agree

with some things on the left but not

everything or agree on some things on

the right but not everything um so uh

that's that's what um I think most

people will feel I guess how much longer

maybe maybe the answer is forever how

much longer are we going to have to call

it the formally known as Twitter I mean

even Prince went back to prince instead

of is it always going to be X it's

definitely always going to be X so X is

going through some changes is said a lot

um of media companies are going through

some changes it's it you're in charge of

an incredible platform Elon how do you

feel that's

going I think it's going pretty well so

far um we're seeing record usage um

we've added a tremendous amount of

functionality I mentioned the uh that

you know it used be that you can only do

short you know text and maybe a a

picture or something like that short

video um but now you can do long form

text long form video uh We've added

audio video calling uh so you can not

not just just do text DMS you do order

video calling um we've improved the

algorithm I think significantly um and

um made the system faster and better and

best reflected in the increased usage so

let's talk about that because you said

you wanted all points of view right it's

it's a digital Town Square for all yeah

it's the the the platform has kind of

picked up where conservative media some

conservative media has left off um that

moving to the right increasingly

becoming part of a conservative dialogue

and sometimes even conspiracy theories

right there was an article recently

written about you saying that you Donald

Trump and X were the most important um

people uh or places or whatever icons

when it comes to the magga movement do

you agree with that how do you feel

about that uh well I mean there are

nonsense articles written all the time

and I certainly wouldn't agree with that

one I put in the nonsense category so uh

the the the objective fact of the matter

in my opinion was that um uh old Twitter

was fundamentally a of the the farle As

and that was really I think a lot of it

was due to being located in San

Francisco Bley um and so uh it wanted to

essentially project the SF Bley uh

political Dogma worldwide you think it

was far left yes I do I I used to get I

actually got off the platform because I

would get so much hate tweets when it it

was called in so much hate tweets and

and just Guff from right-wing conspiracy

theorists being called everything from

you know [ __ ] to sure it's the internet

you know people will do I I've been

called every name times a thousand yeah

do you agree that it's right now and

that even it's moved into sort of magal

land conspiracy theory I don't I

certainly don't think it's right um the

the old school Twitter uh suspended and

suppressed uh accounts that you'd call

on the right 10 times more they did An

accounts on the left and even when they

did suspend an account on the left uh it

was because of arguments between two

people on the left

uh the political donations of old

Twitter were 99% Democrat does that

sound left red leftwing or rightwing to

you the Twitter donations yes you know

when they look at donations by from a

company if a company donates n literally

99% of all donations are to Democrats

does that strike you as a left leaning

or a right leaning you mean the company

donated I understand what you're saying

what I'm trying to tell you is that uh

Twitter employees people at Twitter

their political donations were 99%

literally

99% uh to Democrats that's obviously an

extremely left-leaning group my question

to leading into this is about magga you

and speaking of magga you recently met

with Donald Trump in Florida what did

you guys talk about uh I was at a dinner

I not dinner I was at a breakfast at a

friend's place and Donald Trump came by

that's

it so you didn't go there to meet him I

no I went to a a a friend of mine's

house

uh and said Donald Trump's coming by for

breakfast is that uh just so you know

like okay fine what did you discuss i'

I um let's just say uh he did most of

the talking

what the normal things he says there was

nothing particularly groundbreaking on

you but uh he you know

uh president Trump likes to talk

and so he

talked I I don't call him saying

anything that he hasn't said publicly uh

and that was it was just a breakfast did

he ask you for money he didn't did he

ask you for a donation no he didn't you

said you're not going to donate to any

candidate that's correct why

not I think

uh while I I'll voice my opinion um I

think uh I don't want to I don't want to

put a thumb on the scale monetarily that

is you know significant are you going to

loan him money to help pay his bills no

not at all pay his legal bills I'm not

I'm not paying paying his legal bills in

any way shape or form and he did not ask

you for money and he did not ask me for

money are you going to so you're not

going to endorse a candidate I may in

the final stretch endorse the candidate

uh but I don't know yet uh I want

to make make a considered decision uh

before the election uh and if I do

decide to endorse a candidate then I

will explain exactly why are you leaning

towards anyone no you're not leaning

towards anyone because you've been I'm

leaning leaning away from Biden you're

leaning I've made no secret of that are

you concerned about losing your security

clar Clarance if Biden is reelected does

that have anything to do with it

no you are leaning away from Biden but

you're not going to endorse anyone it

seems like an endorsement of President

Trump because there are only two people

who are running now Nikki Haley is out I

mean a lot can happen between now and

the election so we'll see who in their

final analysis uh are the choices for

president um and at that point I may or

may not endorse uh one of the candidates

if I do I will provide a very uh detel

explanation of why I endorsing one or

the other at that point might you

contribute or

donate uh I I think it's unlikely so you

have been posting up a storm as you

always do in the past couple weeks about

the redesign of the Tesla uh roster

coming at the end of this year are there

any kind of updates that you can talk

about that to expect from Flagship EV I

mean Tesla's stock is down the last 6

months what's next for the

company you know the stocks go up and

down but what really matters is are we

making and delivering uh uh great

products the Tesla products are um

outstanding uh last year the model Tesla

Model y was the best selling uh car of

any kind in the world so it was about 1

1.2 million units it was the best

selling car despite being I think around

50% more expensive than the next

bestselling vehicle um of any kind not

just electric so um I think that's a

testament to the incredible work of the

Tesla team um and uh we launch the Cyber

truck obviously that's uh being very

well received um we have uh I think over

a million orders for the Cyber truck um

so

uh it's it's a really special product

that is that I think the Cyber truck is

one of those part that Products that

come comes along really once

in several years maybe once a decade

cyber Tru is a once a decade product it

is so uh special and and I think it's

our best product um so but everyone

improves over time I mean Apple I

thought my phone was here but Apple you

know the phone got better over time that

I'm sure the your your cars will get

better over time you have been tweeting

about the the updates in in the roosters

there something that we should you did

mention the roaders so um like I don't

want to give

away you know much more than what I've

said uh publicly except that the

Roadster will be uh a collaboration

between SpaceX and Tesla so you know you

can expect some rockety stuff there a

flying

car

maybe it's not out of the question go on

no I I got to I got to reserve the cool

stuff for the you know when we actually

Avail it but it's it's it's going to

it's going to be really cool it's going

to have um it's going to have some

rocket technology in it um I think the

really the only way to do something

that's cooler than the Cyber truck is is

to combine the

SpaceX and and and and Tesla technology

to create something that's not even

really a

car then what would it be something

that's never existed before I'm getting

Jetson's Vibes totally Jetson's Vibes

it'll and the W may not be aware like

some things that I have said publicly is

that it'll do 0 to 60 in under 1 second

so um that's by far faster than any uh

you know sports car that that exists um

and um and that's not even the most

exciting thing about it does it have

wings no it does it does not have big

wings cuz big wings would be on wheel on

the road does it have propellers it does

not have propellers it has wheels does

have wheels

okay Road for 20 questions it has it

does it have a steering

wheel not exactly what is

it well it'll have it'll have a drive by

wire

uh yoke essentially like

a kind of like the way aircraft are

modern jets are controlled and do you

think it's the way of the future that

everyone will follow your lead on this I

don't think anyone will ever make

anything like the uh the the road

through that that we're going to make

let's talk now about um SpaceX Tesla you

got a lot of lawsuits you've got x.com

you got a lot going on how do you relax

well um my I relax I spend time with my

kids my friend friends and I you know

make somewhat of a l technologist I like

playing video games so uh I'll play

video games with with with friends

online which one I me lately I've been

playing Diablo um and um but I've played

almost all the games over the years uh a

long time ago I was like Semi-Pro good

at Quake this is really dating me uh

because we're talking about

like one than 25 years ago I don't know

video games I just know that my uh my

great nephew loves fortnite and some

other stuff he's always with the

headphones and and doing the thing so

that helps you relax right so yeah and

you the nice thing is You' got if you've

got friends in different cities and

they're playing the same game you can

both go online at the same time and uh

play the game together even though

you're in different cities listen I'm

not asking you anything that anyone else

hasn't asked you about um your

controversial stuff that you tweet you

post a lot of controversial stuff is

that considered blowing off

steam

um well I I guess I do en enjoy using

the platform I mean I do call um the

xplatform the the PVP or player versus

player uh platform um so in video games

there's uh player versus like

environment um where you're not playing

against other people people um and then

there's PVP which is like hardcore

you're actually playing against other

people and uh but that's blowing off

steene for

you yeah yes it is to some degree not

always I mean obviously I use it for uh

to post jokes to post uh you

know sometimes trivia uh sometimes

things that are of great importance uh

so you do a lot of it at night like late

at night so when you're doing this are

you are you sober when you do it almost

always you under the influence of

anything uh no I don't I don't drink I

don't really no I no so you not no drink

no smoke no nothing I mean you smoke pot

with Rogan I had one puff yeah I think

anyone who smokes pot can tell I don't

know how to how to smoke PLT but you've

admitted that you've had you have a kety

prescription yeah yeah yeah what's that

for well I mean it's pretty private to

ask somebody about a medical

prescription you know um but uh it's I

think it's something I'd say like uh

there are times when I have

um sort of

uh I don't know like negative chemical

state in my in my brain uh like

depression I guess you know is or or or

like depression that's not linked to any

negative views um and and and then uh

kemy is helpful for uh getting you

getting one outs out of a negative frame

of

mind well listen I I in fact I generally

obviously I'm not a doctor but I would

say uh if someone has depression issues

they should consider talking to the

doctor about camine instead of ssris

listen I I think that um ketamine uh and

drug therapy is uh increasingly becoming

more in the mainstream yeah do you think

that you're doing it under a doctor's

care right yeah yeah literally

prescription from an actual a real

doctor not like you know yeah but do you

do you feel like you ever abuse it I

don't think so if use too much Academy

and you can't really get work done so I

have a lot of work

so I'm I'm typically putting in like you

know 16 hour days that's normal for me

and it's it's it's rare for me to even

take off a weekend day so I don't really

have like you know a situation where I

can be not mentally acute for an an

extented period of time like I can't I

can't really get wasted with when CU I

can't get my work done so how often do

you take it

um well it'd be like a small amount once

every other week or something like that

but there's I mean there's not on the

bottle where it says take this dose this

many times a week or whatever if it's

dose I there are several weeks to go by

where I don't use it you don't use it

yeah I think it's like I said I think

the the what I find K is if you if you

like literally like a chemical state in

your brain that you can't you can't just

think yourself out of then uh ketamine

can is helpful for getting you out of a

depressive mind State you suffer from

depression or you have a depressive mind

State and I asked is someone who has

suffered from ref first I wouldn't say

that I

I I wouldn't say that I have like a a

case of like extended depression um it's

just once in a while I get into a a

negative sort of chemical mind State

once in a while it's not a not a common

thing um but once in a while it this

happen where do you think that comes

from I think it's just genetic basically

you think it's just genetic history I

think so

um yeah I mean some people like just

wired wired to be happy all the time uh

some are unfortunately wired to be sad a

lot of the time um and in my case uh I'm

you know I'm generally pretty pretty

positive and optimistic uh but once in a

while uh I don't know what happens there

some uh like I said I think chemical

ties to your brain once in a while it's

like a brain

storm yeah do you ever worry that this

may get in the way of your government

contracts and clear es and also and Wall

Street as

well well from a standpoint of Wall

Street uh what matters is uh

execution you know uh are you building

value for investors um Tesla is worth

about as much as the rest of the car

industry combined from nothing so I you

know that's pretty good um as I

mentioned we we had the best selling car

on Earth last year um so for for

investors point if there is something

I'm taking I should keep taking

it have you you talk about your ketamine

use and depression have you you also

have said and the reason I I should say

like like the reason I mentioned uh the

cemy prescription on the xplatform was

because I thought maybe this is

something that could help other people

that's why I mentioned it yeah can we

talk about the great replacement Theory

now um some of the things that you post

a great replacement Theory you claim

that Democrats President Biden's

immigration plan to open up the Border

you said that there the president is

getting and Democrats are doing it to

get more votes

[Music]

um but undocumented immigrants cannot

vote in federal elections so how is that

possible right um well you're conflating

two things one is great replacement

Theory uh the other is which I I don't

subscribe to that I'm simply saying that

there is an incentive here uh if uh

legal immigrants wish I think have a a

very strong bias to at least everything

I've read it's very strong wise to vot

Democrat um the more more that come into

the country the more they're likely to

vote in that direction but it is in my

view uh a simple incentive to increase

uh voters to Democrat voters um and yeah

so question is like how so there's

there's a few there's a few ways that

this works one is that when the census

is done uh the census is based on all

all people in an area whether they are

CI citizens or not

so uh if there are a concentration of

uh people who came here illegally in in

a in a particular state or uh any

particular state that state will

actually then get uh an increased number

of House

Seats so the the house seat

apportionment is proportionate to the

number of people not the number of

citizens so the the the legals

overwhelmingly go to places like

California New York um and the

if you just look at the the math if if

if you look at the apportionment with

and without illegals I believe

California would lose I believe I

believe the blue State there would be a

net loss of blue states of approximately

20 seats in the

house now this also applies to the the

Electoral College so you say like well

this also applies to to electing the

president because the the same the

electoral votes are also done by by

apportionment the same way that house

seats are done but the reason Elan the

electoral college is in place is to to

balance that so that that doesn't happen

so what you're saying about it is the

exact opposite of the reason why the the

Electoral College is there the Electoral

College at this

point at this point in in our history

gives people who are in smaller States

and red States much more of an influence

over our elections than people who are

in blue States and the majority of the

people in this country that's what the

Electoral College does it actually does

the exact opposite of what you're saying

it protects people who are smaller

States and protects people who are in

red States well um red States because

they tend to be smaller and less

populous I think that that's that's

statement is is uh what you said is is

true but what I said is also true uh

which is that uh if if as is the case a

disproportionate number of legal

immigrants go to Blue States they

amplify the effect of a of a blue state

boat and the math as I understand it you

can research this obviously very easily

on the it's like it's pretty straight

for to to research this but my

understanding is that there would be uh

that that the the Democrats would lose

approximately 20 seats in the house uh

if illegals were not counted in census

and that's also 20 less electoral votes

for president so legals absolutely do

affect the uh who controls uh the house

of the house and who controls uh the

presidency it does not affect uh the

Senate yeah in blue States you're

talking about I don't believe that your

information on on on uh that is right um

so listen let's talk more about the

great replacement because the first time

you did you posted on exit about this

Jewish conspiracy you ended up

apologizing I didn't call it a conspir I

just said that there's a simple matter

of incentives you don't need a

conspiracy when you have basic

incentives in my view there's a basic

incentive there is fundamental uh that

uh for the Democrat Democratic party to

Foster and Usher in a large number of

legals and they and and and you don't

need a conspiracy in that case because

you have a very basic incentive you

could say I'm wrong about that incentive

but that's my view I I'm not buying to I

don't buying some great replacement

Theory I'm simply saying there appears

to be a very clear incentive for uh

Democrats to have to maximize number of

illegals um because it helps them Inn

election I'm talking about the great

replacement theory is also part of a

Jewish conspiracy theory and when you

did the Tweet or you responded to the

Tweet about that you ended up a oling

and which I think is you know it's good

that you end up apologizing you went to

awit with Ben Shapiro yeah so you said

you learned your lesson what did you

learn I said I learned my lesson you

said you learned your lesson when it

when you apologized and you said you

went to alth you saw what what no I was

already already aware of of of of these

things and the nature of my comment that

that really inflamed people um what I

was what I was trying to say and I did

very quickly clarify this what I'm

saying is that uh um a number of uh

prominent uh Jewish philanthropists fund

uh groups that they should really take a

closer look at funding because some of

the some of the groups they fund um I

think are anti-semitic yeah do you

understand the connection between the

two there one there's a connection

between you said Democrats a great

replacement Theory but when it comes to

the actual great replacement Theory

originally was started about Jewish

people as you said flooding in the

country and then now people are using

for Democrats saying the same thing

about Democrats flooding my view it's a

simple matter of incentives I I I'm I'm

I don't actually don't see an incentive

for uh Jewish people to want to have

that get legal immigration I don't I

don't think there is such an

incentive the great replacement theory

is a a Neo-Nazi Trope it's in the

Neo-Nazi Manifesto It's in the Turner

diary it's referenced by the Buffalo

Mass shooter uh and his Manifesto where

10 people um black people were murdered

in Buffalo his actual title of the

Christ Church Shooters Manifesto 51

people in the Muslim Mosque were

murdered 23 people uh murdered in El

Paso by a shooter who used the same

language that you use in that Manifesto

when you say Hispanic invasion is that

not I didn't say an Hispanic Invasion

and you tweeted you quoted a tweet that

said that called it a Hispanic

Invasion if I quote something it doesn't

mean I agree with anything ever the end

it it's is something that I want I think

this is something wor people should

consider why would you quote something

that you didn't believe because anything

I quote is going to have a whole range

of statements doesn't mean I agree with

everything in it do you think if there

if if

you moderated yourself more if there was

better content moderation on the

platform that you wouldn't have to

answer these questions from reporters

about the great great replacement Theory

as it relates I have to question great

replacement Theory as it relates to

Jewish people do you think that I don't

have to answer questions from reporters

Don the only reason I've beening this is

because you're on the xplatform and you

asked for it m otherwise I would not do

inter with this interview so you don't

think you do you think that you wouldn't

get in trouble or you wouldn't be

criticized for these things criz

possibly I could care less it you don't

you don't care no I don't care why not I

don't think people should care what the

media thinks about them they're terrible

judges of

character even someone who has one of

the biggest social media and biggest

information Platforms in the world you

don't think you don't care you don't

think that there's you have any x.com or

you have any responsibility to the truth

or

moderating the platform you're

conflating the truth with the with the

media and I think the media is uh not

truthful well not with just the the

media I mean just the truth in general I

care about the truth very much that's

why we have for example commun Community

notes on the gek system um where uh in

order for Community note to surface and

uh provide corrective information about

what somebody posts and and my f s

equally subject to this my I've been

been a community noted many times um the

in order for before Community notes a

surface uh people who have historically

disagreed must agree in order for a

community note to surface and all of the

code for Community notes is open source

all of the data is open source so you

can completely recreate it from scratch

the way to build trust is transparency I

have noticed Community notes I think

that you are right about that I do think

Community notes are helpful I think any

type of content moderation I do think

that's helpful you recently called

content moderation though a digital

chastity belt do you think that you you

believe that X and you have some

responsibility to moderate hate speech

on the

platform I think we have a

responsibility to adhere to the law and

we have a responsibility to be

transparent uh about when things are

shown why they're shown uh so we that's

why we uh open source our algorithm um

the I think once you start getting going

beyond the law now you're putting your

thumb on the scale and we don't want to

put out that on the scale it doesn't

concern you that hate speech is gone

research shows that it's gone up on the

platform since you took over that's not

concerning to you I believe that is

false in fact the research that I've

seen it says it it went down the study

from The Institute of strategic dialogue

found that anti-semitic tweets doubled

from June 22 to February 2023 one study

reported that as many as 86% of the

posts reported for hateful content

remained up after being reported hate

speech on the platform is up uh so what

what they will typically do is they will

count the number of posts but not count

the number of views so what matters is

was that uh post given high visibility

or what did like one person see it uh

and if you look at the number of views

of how how many how many times was ha

content viewed on our platform it is

down substantially yeah well that's not

was what the study shows and you said

you like transparency I'm going to show

you this and and you can get a study

that will tell you whatever you want but

this is these are just a handful of

extremely you look at those anti-Semitic

and racist tropes and tweets and as of

this morning they're still on

X and from your own content policy these

posts should have been deleted so why

haven't they been deleted why are they

still there did

you uh we delete things if they are

illegal but these have been up there for

a while are they illegal they're not

illegal but they're hateful and they can

they can lead to

violence as I just read to you the

shooters

you know in all of these mass shootings

attributed social media to radicalizing

so don you love censorship is what

you're saying no I don't love censorship

then why why you ask I believe in

moderation but I I don't believe in

censorship is a moderation is a

propaganda word for censorship but don't

you think free speech is one thing right

or not you know look if something's

illegal we're going to take it down if

it's not illegal then we're putting out

them on the scale and we're beinging

censors you're putting your thumb on the

scale for moderating hate speech I mean

you don't put out child porn pornography

that's not it's illegal that some people

would say that's considered censorship

I'm just saying you no I literally D you

I literally said if if something is

legal okay we will obviously remove it

okay but if it is not

legal if the laws of this country were

are put forward by the citizens we a

democracy if those laws put in place uh

by the by the people we adhere to those

laws laws of others if you go beyond the

law you're actually going beyond the

will of the people okay agreed with the

law but if you are doing something that

promotes hate and violence and

ultimately leads to killing you don't

feel there's you have any responsibility

not to do that uh when when when the

people who are doing it admittedly are

saying articles all the time that lead

to to violence and killing um don't they

shouldn't they

like you're applying a differential

standard to but that would never that

would never be in mainstream media these

types of images that type of language

those things would never be we'd never

in M when I was in mainstream media we'd

never promote things that um would would

be anti-semitic we would never promote

things antic

either did you you did you not see those

you said promote if if content is on the

platform that doesn't mean we promote it

but that wouldn't be on on a platform

for mainstream media at all no but you

can think of that that's because the

mainstream media is has like whatever 20

articles a day uh we have 500 million

posts today million does it bother you

how do you feel about that when you see

it I obviously disagree with

that I think it's it's not good at all

it's terrible but you don't want

to get rid of it on the platform or at

least moderate it the lules you're your

what you're suggesting is censorship

that goes beyond the law and what I'm

saying is Uh I that we I guess have a

disagreement because I do not believe in

censorship that goes beyond the law and

you do we have a difference of opinion

in that regard I understand that but

these are your own rules on your own

platform the these go against the rules

on your platform that's why I'm asking

you if you had if you said listen we

allow everything but that's not what

your content rules say and that's why

I'm asking you why are they still

there the your own content policy that's

why I'm asking you that not because

which part of our content policy says

that we have we should delete these the

these things your content policy talks

about hate speech Yes we don't promote

hate spe hate speech and so you don't

consider that hate

speech I guess you're understanding what

I'm saying there's there's there's if if

if there's you can find like you can

sign up right now and and and do a

hundred things that are hateful um but

if nobody reads it it doesn't

matter so you you can think of X as

being it's much like the Internet it's

not some some tiny publication with like

20 articles it's 500 million uh but

everyone has the opportunity to read a

Elon theity to read the internet are you

said it suggesting we should shut down

the internet no but but you don't own

the internet I'm asking you about you

and your responsibility and your

platform and I I so I see how you feel

now you don't agree we don't agree on

this yes you want censorship and I don't

no I don't want censorship at all yes

you do no I want responsibility I think

there's I think there you desperately

want censorship no if I want to

censorship you want censorship so bad

you can taste it no that's not true it's

not true I think that there's right and

wrong what and I and I think that when

you have a platform that's as big as

yours and as powerful as yours and as

inferential as yours and you are a

person of consequence to the world with

what you do that there is a certain

responsibility that goes along with what

you have on your platform and what you

put out to the world and I I think

that's important you don't see that

responsibility

um I think the we have a responsibility

to uh adhere to the law um and if people

want the law changed they should talk to

elect talk to their elected

representative and get the law changed

and then we will adhere to the law okay

but if you want us to go beyond the law

that is that is uh us deciding to be

censors so and I'm against censorship

I'm I'm in favor of freedom of speech

and freedom of speech only is relevant

when people you don't like say things

you don't like otherwise it has no

meaning but I I do think that there are

there should be guard

rails and I believe in free speech as

much as you I would fight I don't I

don't disagree I don't agree with um a

lot of what you put out on social media

but I will fight for your right to be

able to say it great yeah okay so listen

let's talk about diversity equity and

inclusion all right that's been a target

of yours lately on X you uh on there was

a repost of Ben Bureau that you claim

that Dei is killing people specifically

you point to medicine you claim that Dei

programs are putting people at risk do

you really believe this to be true and

what evidence do you have to support it

um what I was referring to there was

that if uh if we lower the standards for

doctors uh such so that they you know if

if the test for a doctor is lowered uh

then the probability of them making a

mistake and killing someone is obviously

going to be higher wait say that again I

I'm not sure I understand what you said

I want to make sure I understand what

you're saying actually yes if if these

if the stands for passing medical exams

and becoming a doctor or especially

something like a surgeon if the standat

are

lowered uh uh then the probability that

the S will make mistake is higher

they're making mistakes in their exam

they they may make mistakes with people

and that may result people dying what

evidence do you have though that they're

lowering the standards there's no

evidence of that belief there is there's

no evidence of that Elon what what is

the evidence I I believe they have

literally lowered the standards at at

Duke University and that is what the

article was referring to there's no they

have not lower the standards there's no

evidence about uh lowering standards and

I think that there is um leave that as a

false statement you're making okay well

we we'll figure it out yeah I think

inter thing is when this is posted on

the xplatform there will be a whole

bunch of things that reut what you said

and what what I said and so people can

then make their own decision based on

the replies and the rebuttal and the

community notes I think that's fair but

I do think that on this particular topic

I do think that you and Ben Shiro are

reaching in about this because there was

a what what Ben posted said that people

were he gave instances of people who

were deliberately uh harming people um

nowhere in the thread does Ben suggest

at all I should say that anyone is being

killed as a a result of Dei um that's

purely

speculative there's research on Dei and

medicine and there's no

no evidence that standards are being

lowered okay that Dei is affecting

medicine actually like only five% of

doctors are black and a small

percent yeah I think you'll find that

when this is posted to ex platform that

uh people will reply to it with evidence

Maybe I'm Wrong let's see okay so but

that's my whole thing about moderation

maybe you're wrong but you'll put it out

there you don't know if it's right do

you think that your responsibility to

make sure something is right before you

the person who owns it Elon Musk who's a

huge figure in the world that you should

know that it's true that some there are

people at X who can get research for you

before you put something out there like

that that's not necessarily true even in

other

examples um if I say something that uh

is inaccurate I'm immediately corrected

on the platform that's the advantage of

a real-time uh system like X so there

will be immediately in the replies corre

people correcting me there will be

Community note that will correct me um

which is attached to the actual post

itself do you think as many people read

the yes you think as many people read

that as it reads your Tweet yes in fact

and if if there's a community note that

happens uh later that or somebody didn't

see but they replied to that uh

interacted with that post we will notify

them that there is now a community note

correcting that post M just so you

whereas if you consider the conventional

media that doesn't happen conventional

media makes false statements all the

time with no and nobody ever hears the

correction when I was in conventional

media I can only speak for myself if I

got something wrong or if someone got

something wrong on the platform that

that I was on it was corrected and we

made sure that it was corrected now I

can't speak for anyone else that's I

think I don't think that's a universal

situation okay so I just want just the

research so when you talk do you believe

that people are dying because medical

standards Dei is causing medical

standards to be lowered do you actually

believe people are dying because of that

I I believe that uh if if we if we lower

the stats for what it takes to become a

doctor you're saying if we lower the

stands but do you believe people are

dying because the standards are being

lowered I I don't or have think that is

yes an issue but it could become an

issue okay but the actual evidence in

history shows the exact opposite if you

look at how minorities are treated by

the medical

system most doctors most doctors now are

white and there are lots of mistakes in

medicine so you're saying

that my doctors are have bad Medical

Care I'm trying to understand your logic

here when it comes to Dei because

there's no actual evidence of what

you're

saying no I I said so if the standards

like like let's say uh I think that

particular thing was referring to

surgeons let's say surgeon is is asked

to a a surgeon in training is asked to

do a series of operations under the

supervision of a senior surgeon and they

get a bunch of those operations

wrong if if if if that happens and if

they are still approved to be a surgeon

the probability that someone will die I

think at some point is high okay I

understand that but that's a

hypothetical that doesn't mean it's

happening I didn't say it's

happening you you didn't say it was

happening I said I said it will you but

I said if if if if we lower status

people people will

die but why respond to something or put

something out there that has not

happened because I could say you know I

don't want it to happen I think we don't

lowest lowest standards okay if you look

at the history of the medical industry

um especially when it comes to Black

Americans it shows the exact opposite if

you look at the Tuskegee experiment and

on and on only 5% of doctors are in

America are black all of them are white

so are you saying that if the majority

of doctors are white are you saying that

D and there are still these inequities

right and there's and people still

they're still mistakes are you blaming

Dei for that no I'm I'm very very basic

Al saying that if we lower standards uh

for what it takes to become uh a Bo

certified surgeon uh or you know an

oncologist or something where that where

the the kind of disease we're talking

about if you make a mistake causes

someone to die then there more people

will die than if we don't lower the

standards therefore we should not lower

the standards but why do you think

they're lowering the standards for

minority doctors or women doctors

or that's what the the that's what that

article suggested yes

at at Duke University okay the evidence

that I have shows that that's not true

so listen after the door blew off this

um mid-flight in this Alaskan Airlines

flight do you remember that um you

responded a post claiming that the

average H HBCU grad was less intelligent

than the average airline pilot uh and

stated that it will take an airline

crashing an airplane crashing and

killing hundreds of people for them to

change this crazy policy of diie I don't

know if you did you misspell it on

purpose which should be de EI do you

believe that women and minority Pilots

are inherently less intelligent and less

skilled than white male Pilots no I'm

just saying that we should not lower the

standards for

that

okay but there's no evidence that

standards are being lowered when it

comes to the airline industry you've

repeatedly said that there's no evidence

that standards being lowered and watch

the replies showing all the evidence

that it is replies though on social

media are are not necessarily fact and

evidence that's people they will site

all the the rep in the replies to this

you will see how often the this the the

information is cited showing that indeed

there are significant uh cases where uh

standards are lowered and I do hope that

happens I do hope that happens and and I

look forward to and as you said if

you're wrong then you're wrong and if

I'm wrong then I'm wrong yes okay so

let's so and I'm glad we're having this

conversation debate this is what you

should we should be doing debating the

issue so if I'm wrong then I'm wrong and

then they'll be proven in the thing and

you as well but I just want to tell you

that that pilot that you talked about in

fact was a woman pilot landed the plane

safe safely despite the major

malfunction with the equipment Boeing

has taken responsibility for that

incident saying that it was caused by a

faulty door panel so I'm not sure what

that had to do with lowering the

standards for Pilots when it was a FAL

not lowering standards for Pilots it's

it's the the inent of structure uh I I

believe at Boeing changed to uh include

Dei as as uh as as a fundamental

executive

incentive um so but in my view it should

be purely about passenger safety okay

but do you

understand how by saying just that

standards are being lowered that you're

implying that they're being lowered

because people are less skilled and less

intelligent and you're talking about

people of color and or

women

uh look I'm I'm saying we should not

lower standards but do you you don't

that's

it I think everyone can agree that you

can't you shouldn't lower standards

right that's but you're implying that

they're lowering standards because of

people of color or women because someone

is not a white male you're saying that

they're less skilled and less

intelligent that's what you're say no

I'm not saying that I'm simply saying

that they are then why would they be

lowering the standards I don't know why

are they lowering the standards just so

you know 5% of Pilots are female 4% are

black so you're you know you're talking

about this widespread takeover

minorities and women when that's not

actually

true I'm not saying this why I take over

well you're saying that the standards

are being lowered because of certain

people um you how do you you don't

believe in Dei right do you not believe

divers in diversity equity and inclusion

I think we should be uh treat people uh

according to their

skills uh and their integrity and that's

it do you know that study show study

show yeah well we can look him up well

so your reaction to study show and

understand right because I always like

to say I always like to point to an

exact uh study right sure something that

is factual it's the same thing when you

talk about well let's see what the

replies are on Twitter or on X I so I

feel the same I feel the same way about

that but this is what studies have sh

and people will reply and they'll say

that companies with more diversity and

their leadership teams have reported

higher Innovation raceing those with a

lower um with lower diversity a low

diversity

and they they're better companies and

they make more money this whole idea

about Dei if you go woke or whatever you

go broke that's not necessarily true

people with diverse leadership teams and

diverse um workers make more money and

more

Innova um like I said my view is that

the the only basis for promoting

somebody should be uh their skills

talents and uh their integrity and

that's

I want to ask you about there's a

there's a federal government uh EEOC

they are also currently involved in a

lawsuit against Tesla that alleges that

there's a history of widespread racial

harassment against black Tesla employees

as well as a pattern of retaliation for

speaking

out what do you say to that uh well uh

there's I I don't believe that is that

is true um I think we've got a very good

uh uh like if if you walk around the the

te the Tesla Fremont plant I think it's

a very good atmosphere

um in fact I I practically lived there

for 3 years trying to make the

production work were you aware if you

live there were you aware of such

Behavior I never saw

it so you're saying that this is not

true it's not happening well I mean

there's over 20,000 people so you say

like if there's over 20,000 people in

one building um well is everyone going

to be behaved publicly no did I see any

any situations that I thought were uh

improper I did not uh let's talk about

trans rights and the woke mind virus

because youve talk about that a lot

you're right about that a lot on the

thing you have been deeply outspoken

about the issue of trans right you

posted trans writes you posted that

pronouns in bio mean the woke mind virus

ate your

brain do you know what the term woke

actually

means

um it's come to mean a lot of things but

what it actually what originally it was

meant to mean it's just being aware of

inequities in society and and being

aware of facts and and history yeah I

think it's come to

be I think I think being aware of

inequities in society is fine of course

um but uh trying to blame everything uh

on on trying to make everything a race

issue is uh I think a divisive and

corrosive to

society even as it relates to trans

isues which is what I'm yeah race or you

know gender or whatever you think

blaming you think that Society blames

everything on racism

now it blames a lot of things on it and

uh yeah you think that's unfair yeah why

I think I think we should we should uh

not not make this a constant uh subject

I think we need to move on I think we're

just you know um treat people like

people

you don't agree that there's this

country was founded on racism and

founded on slavery and and in many ways

inequities um that's still continue on

to the St I think every country uh at

that time and I think even today was

extremely racist um every country um and

um obviously a uh slavery was present in

uh by half this country um and no but

not was not present in the in the uh

North uh there was racism for sure uh

but you know the I I think we we we want

to look to the future rather than the

past um and uh instead of engaging in uh

constant rehashing of the past uh

because in fact if you look at history

if you study history broadly everyone

was a slate

everyone yes well not everyone was a

slave everyone was a slave okay but we

we are we are we are all descended from

slaves yeah all of us yeah um it's just

a question of when is a was it more

recent or less recent that's it right um

so the but what what Future do We want

is this something we want to make part

about constant dialogue forever or do do

we want to say like let's just move on

and treat everyone uh you know

uh according to just who they are as an

individual I agree with you with that

that's the ideal but what the evidence

shows is that that's not what's actually

in

practice I think we're do it better than

anywhere else that that's true I agree

with that but that doesn't mean anything

that doesn't mean a lot to a whole lot

of people who are able to take advantage

of the opportunities that you were able

to take advantage of simply because the

color of your

skin what advant what what advantage is

my color my skin give well there's a

certain there's an ease that you have in

society that you that many people of

color don't you were able to come to

this country voluntarily there are many

people who were not able to come to the

country voluntarily there people who

came here as slaves me to come here and

there is a legacy of slavery that still

continues on there's a legacy of racism

that still continues on in this country

that's and that's

undeniable well if if if we keep talking

about it non-stop it will never go

away if we keep making up the central

thing it will never go

away well why do you believe

that I think I'm just making a simple

statement of fact um

so I think I think we want to get away

from making everything a race or a

gender or whatever issue and just treat

people like

individuals do you have any desire to

understand what many people of color and

even trans people um how they feel about

this country and how they're treated in

this country if they if they say and

they believe that they are treated a

certain way in this country why don't

you believe them you you cannot have a

situation where where someone is a

self-described victim and and they and

they just get to be that because that's

how they feel I think that that does

happen in some cases but not all cases

and I think that not understanding the

history of the country I think is um is

a real shame look I've had we should

country and other countries I've had

incredible opportunities as a person of

color right but I've also been but I've

also been discriminated against and I

know that I have and I know that that's

real and for someone to say that that

isn't happened and I should not I should

just move forward and not think about

that and ignore the past is insulting

I'm not saying it D you keep putting

words in my mouth I'm not saying it's I

didn't say that you said I'm saying that

we want to we we as we as a country

should move Beyond questions of of of

race and gender and we should treat

people like individuals and and base our

opinions on them on the you know uh

their uh their their character and their

skills I don't think that anyone will

disagree with that exactly all I'm

saying is that that's not happening and

is not equal for everyone that those

opportunities don't happen for everyone

and I am a living example that they

don't I know that they don't because I

live

it you've been incredibly successful I

have been in spite of it all but I but I

am I know what I know I've experence

what I've experienced you haven't done

that and I cannot um I don't know what

it's like to be from South Africa I

don't know what it's like to be a white

man I don't know what it's like to be a

woman I don't know what it's like to be

Latino person I don't know that so I

wouldn't speak for them and just say you

need to move on that's not for me to say

I maybe I believe that the country it

would be great if the country could live

up to that ideal you think that everyone

has the same opportunities in America

regardless of their background and E

ethnicity do you agree you no I don't

think everyone has the same option AIDS

okay so um when you talk about let's

talking about trans right when you

decided to um to talk about the the

trans Rights Movement um you said that

it was a woke mind virus why do you

believe the trans Rights Movement is a

woke mind virus what do you mean by woke

mind

virus WWI viruses um when you you st

carry about uh

people's skills um and their integrity

and you start focusing instead on gender

and Brace and other things that are

different from that um I think uh the

worldwi virus is fundamentally racist

fundamentally sexist and fundamentally

evil okay and we've got a little bit

more time so you choose your question

okay so okay thank you for that but you

I would appreciate you answering these I

think it's important that doing this I

think it's important to the to world the

world to hear this especially what's

going on uh in our country the reason I

ask you listen there are a whole lot of

things that people may be uh have

questions about when it comes to

transgender people even people who are

part of the lgbtq plus Community have

questions about that but if you are a

free speech absolutist right um and that

is part of the First Amendment also the

freedom of expression falls under that

first amendment as well so why can't

people choose to identify with the

gender that they feel comfortable with

or with a use a pronoun isn't that part

of freedom of

expression uh I guess though they can

they can ask others to do whatever they

feel they they can ask others to do

anything what it it's a different

question where they whether they mandate

that others do that thing okay let's

let's talk more about free speech and

for advertisers right because all this

controversy I believe as you know has

made um X less appealing to advertisers

about half of them have left the

platform you call advertisers that left

x.com he said there were oppressors

you've even gone as far as saying it

publicly that they can go f themselves

or go [ __ ]

themselves ad if they're if they're

going to force censorship on on the

company uh before advertising then uh

obviously I find that unacceptable you

find it unacceptable why is that not a

form of of free speech they are free to

advertise where they want they're not

beholden to they're not obligated to

advertise next.com right so

how is that not free

speech they they that's whereas the

other platforms will censor on behalf of

of advertisers the xplatform will

not okay so but you think it's you don't

think it's okay for them not

to advertise with or have their content

or their advertisement next to something

that is anti-Semitic or that is a

different question uh

you you we there's there's you can

absolutely choose where next to which

content do you want your advertising to

appearer absolutely of course and we do

we have I think very good ad placement

controls in this regard yeah so you said

if they kill the company it's them but

doesn't the buck stop with you I

mean I have to

say choose your question carefully

there's five minutes left okay but so is

this the question you want to ask the

same question question is you said you

said that they are killing the company

but you're the head of the company the

buck doesn't stop with

you I acquired X in order to preserve

freedom of speech in America the First

Amendment and I'm going to stick to that

and if that means making less money so

be

it so I have to be listen I I'm just

being honest right I'm not trying to

like get you or anything I was just

surprised that you would blame other

people for killing the company I mean

you're the I mean when you say the buck

stops with the president of the United

States regardless of what happens right

so I why would the why would that

question upset you seem upset by it are

you I think you're and I'm not trying to

upset you the well you are upsetting me

because the way you're phrasing

questions I think is is not cogent um

it's not what not cogent cogent yes go

ahead uh so uh the

if if if if given a choice where an

Advertiser is saying like you have to

censor all this content on the platform

irrespective of where advertising

appears uh then our answer will be like

look you you you can choose where you

want your advertising what you want your

Advertiser to appear next to but you

can't insist on censorship of the entire

platform if you insist on censorship of

the entire platform even where your

advertising doesn't appear uh then uh

obviously we will we will not uh want

them as an Advertiser so what what would

you say to advertisers to who have left

the platform or who are considering

coming back or not coming back what

would you like to say to them well first

of all uh almost all of our advertisers

are coming back P so it's a very short

list of advertisers who are not coming

back to platform um and uh our

advertising revenue is rising

rapidly uh and our subscription revenue

is rising rapidly and I feel very

optimistic about the future of the X B

okay listen I'm not I'm honestly I'm not

meaning to offend you you're an intense

person where does that intensity come

from I was Bor that

way and had a tough

childhood you did so yeah how

so right wford isacson goes into it in

the book and and we only have a couple

minutes left so all right too long to

describe um so there one or two

questions I can do and then we'll to

call it I okay again I don't mean to

upset you why are you you

just no I have a whole room full of

people waiting to meet with me okay so

we're just going over time okay all

right I understand that um so you when

you talk about you said you were born

that way is that

um did you you think that the way that

you see the world has to do with your

relationship with anyone perhaps your

your father or someone in in your

family I think we're all affected by the

people we we grow up with um my

aspiration is to uh do whatever it takes

to extend the extend Consciousness into

the future that's my goal um to make

life multiplanetary as part of extending

con Consciousness is the Future Has This

has have the past few years and

considering everything that's gone on

has it been difficult for you in your

family

life it's been okay so then how do you

see your legacy Elon H how how do you

see how people see you in first of all I

say

the um if I died knowing that I that I

did what was right or or did my best to

do what was right and even if in the

history books they said I did did wrong

I would still feel okay about that I

care about the reality of goodness not

the perception of it um I think we

should view civilization uh as tenuous

as fragile um if you if you do study

history broadly you'll see the VIS right

and P civilizations they don't always go

up um so we should do everything we

possibly can to preserve uh and and

extend civilization as we know it yeah

um andove it um it's become more

enlightened over time and we uh

therefore want to address civilizational

risks uh we want to make sure that uh we

don't have for example demographic

collapse which is the case in a lot of

countries uh just very little birth rate

um we want to avoid obviously avoid

World War III anything that is a

civilizational risk that's what I care

about civilizational risks um how do we

extend Consciousness into the future

such that we are able

to better

understand the the nature of reality

that's what I care about that's my

motivation I know you have to go if

you'll just give me I'll do a rapid fire

thing here is if there is there anything

that you would change about um anything

that you've done in your life in the

past or recently um I've made vending

mistakes over the years if I had a time

machine i' go back and fix them uh but I

don't have a time machine thank you

thank you I appreciate it thank you so

much so that's it and as Elon would say

you be the judge let me tell you

something about this show the

conversation doesn't end just because

the camera

stops we'll see you next time thanks for

watching thanks for watching the Don

Lemon show click on the image on the top

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