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Narrator: Dover.
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The most dangerous man
in Europe
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is about to arrive
on Britain's shores.
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His preachings
are so incendiary,
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he's been forced out
of his native country.
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Only liberal Britain
will tolerate his presence
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on her soil.
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He heads to London,
to live in exile.
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The year is 1849.
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And the man is Karl Marx.
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Incredibly, this most dangerous
of thinkers might offer the key
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to understanding the mess
we're in today.
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Most people know Marx
as the father of communism.
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You might be surprised to hear
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that most of what he wrote
was about capitalism.
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And today, his ideas about that
are being taken seriously
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right at the heart
of global business.
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[indistinct clamouring]
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- His analysis
was pretty on the button
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and explains a lot,
I think,
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about some of the things
that we see going on
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around in our economy today.
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Narrator: For Marx,
the best argument
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against capitalism was that
it was inherently unfair.
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His ideas on inequality
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have more resonance than ever,
today.
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- What Marx did do
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is to install
this sense of urgency -
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things cannot go on forever
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the way they are.
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Narrator: In this series,
we'll explore the lives
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and revolutionary thinking
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of three extraordinary men,
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John Maynard Keynes,
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Friedrich Hayek
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and Karl Marx.
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Their worlds were changing
as never before.
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They saw
that the fate of nations
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would hang
on the power of money.
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And they had
radically different ideas
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about how to control it.
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Today, the stakes
could hardly be higher.
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Of all the great thinkers
who analysed capitalism,
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Marx had the most radical advice
of all.
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Get rid of it.
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Narrator: In 1989,
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Karl Marx's reputation
lay in ruins.
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For most of us,
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the fall of the Berlin Wall
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meant the end of Marx.
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Millions rejected the horrors
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of a violent and repressive
police state.
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And because
the communist countries
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claimed Marx
as their inspiration,
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his ideas were cast aside,
as well.
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Marx became associated
with communism.
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Indelibly associated
with communism.
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And indelibly associated
with communist regimes,
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because these regimes
did their work
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in the name of Marx.
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So the association
was very, very powerful.
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In fact,
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it was they
who were claiming Marx
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rather than Marx,
as it were, claiming them.
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Narrator:
But in the last few years,
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something strange has happened.
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It's like
the global financial crisis
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has brought Karl Marx
back from the dead.
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Now, we still don't care
what he said about communism,
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but people are going back to see
what he said about capitalism.
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All its deep-seated flaws,
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with a nagging doubt.
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Is it all, now, coming true?
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When times were good,
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Marx was nowhere.
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But now the Western economies
are in crisis,
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he's attracting new interest,
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right at the heart
of the economic establishment.
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From a former IMF
chief economist...
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- Marx is right
on a number of dimensions.
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He certainly is right
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that income inequality
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can be a source
of tremendous tension.
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Narrator: ..to the man who saw
the 2008 crisis coming...
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- He understood
that there are situations
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in which capitalism
and globalisation
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can lead to economic crisis.
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Narrator: ..and an economist
at one
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of the world's leading banks.
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- It's quite hard
to convince people
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who live in Chelsea
or Chelmsford
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that this is
of great relevance to them,
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but, actually,
it's worth a bash.
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Narrator: Marx's key insight
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was that capitalism
was inherently unstable.
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He said we'd lurch
from crisis to crisis,
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and that society would become
increasingly unequal.
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Marx divided the world
into bosses and workers.
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For him, they would always
be at odds,
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and that battle
was a recipe for crises.
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To make profit, bosses squeeze
what they pay workers.
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The crisis comes
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when workers
then don't have enough money
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to buy what bosses
are trying to sell them.
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For decades after World War II,
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all of that
looked completely wrong.
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We'd had years of stable growth,
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and workers were taking
a larger share of the pie.
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But not anymore.
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- Marx would explain this crisis
in terms of the fact
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that ordinary people
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haven't got enough money
to spend.
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Why have they got enough money
to spend?
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Because there's been
a big redistribution,
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over the last few decades,
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away from ordinary people
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towards capital, towards wealth.
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Narrator: And for Marx,
there's no turning back.
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Capitalism would produce
bigger and bigger crises
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and then, it would collapse.
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- Marx had
a very simple formulation
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about crises,
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which is
that they are manifestations
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of the fundamental flaws,
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or contradictions,
as he called them,
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of capitalism.
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How would Marx have suggested
solving the crisis
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is, of course,
by abolishing capitalism.
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Narrator:
To understand the Marxist view
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of the mess we're in,
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we first have to see
the world today
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as Marx might have seen it.
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Capitalism's
most implacable critic was born
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in the picture-postcard town
of Trier,
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in what is now
Southwest Germany.
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- Marx comes across
as a young man,
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as this, sort of, energetic,
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fiery, hairy figure.
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He was known as 'The Wild Boar'
or 'The Maw',
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which sort of points to
his sort of Levantine complex.
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He was full of ideas,
he was full of debate.
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He liked big drinking sessions
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and then
deep philosophical debate
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about the nature of Christ
and German Romanticism
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and politics.
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Narrator: As he studied,
Marx came to believe
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the world was sharply divided
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into those who own
the means of production,
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the capitalists,
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and those who owned nothing,
the workers.
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The conflict
between these two groups,
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for Marx,
shapes how society works.
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- The foundations
of Marx's thinking
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was materialism.
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That when you cut away religion,
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ideology, politics,
at its root
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were the material relations
between man.
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The need for food,
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the need to have a roof
over your head,
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this is what ultimately drives
so much of human interaction.
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- What was unique in Marx,
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he didn't see economy
just as a special sphere.
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He saw economy
as the structuring principle
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of the entire social totality.
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And, so that what happens
in economy,
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the way it structures
our ideologies and so on,
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this, again,
is another lesson today.
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Maybe even more pertinent
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than in the time of,
times of Marx.
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Narrator: We might see
a complex modern economy,
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which all of us have a stake in,
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but Marxists would say
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the same old rules still apply.
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For them, the divided society
Marx saw
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is still, broadly, here today.
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They see workers
still slaving away.
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And capitalists,
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or bourgeoisie,
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still exploiting them,
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always striving
to make more profit.
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In Marx's world,
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any capitalist that doesn't seek
maximum profit
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is soon replaced
by one who does.
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So, the system follows
a completely predictable course,
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he would say,
to its own destruction.
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It's not an idea
that many people accept.
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- He was completely wrong.
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Including the idea
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that capitalism
was merely a phase,
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and contained within it
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the seeds
of its own destruction.
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That's not the case.
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Well, everything
is bound to collapse
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if you wait long enough.
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I mean, the Earth's going to,
you know,
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be sucked into the sun, someday.
[chuckles]
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And, of course,
what we're really talking about
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when we talk about capitalism,
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is individual liberty
and property rights.
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Could those come to an end?
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Well, they have in places.
It's possible,
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but I'm not seeing
any signs of it.
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Narrator: You'd be forgiven
for thinking
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the total collapse
of capitalism
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sounds a little implausible.
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How could seeking profit
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be so disastrous,
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when it's done
such amazing things?
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Just look at how we eat,
under capitalism.
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We get fresh fruit flown in
from all over the world.
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We can choose from 700 types
of breakfast cereal.
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We have enough of it,
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and it's all safe to eat.
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This incredible plenty,
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and the technology
it depends on,
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didn't come from the state.
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It's what happens
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when you let capitalists
compete for profit.
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They didn't do it
for our benefit,
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they did it
because it made them rich.
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So, at first glance,
Marx's idea
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that capitalism's search
for profit
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would be its downfall,
sounds absurd.
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- Profit may often sound venal,
it may often sound wrong,
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but it is
what pushes progress ahead.
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Profit is actually what
drives the world forward.
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And that's what Marx
could never quite handle.
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The profit motive is essential.
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I mean, after all,
what is the profit motive
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if it's just a way of achieving
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a better society,
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by people wanting to better
their own individual lot?
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In terms of economics,
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Marxism is not
very much used today,
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and that's because he was wrong
on several of the fundamentals.
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And if you erect a building
on cracked foundations,
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the building, itself,
is cracked.
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Narrator: When you think of how,
fundamentally,
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the profit motive has shaped
and enriched our world,
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it's no wonder
Marx fell out of favour.
241
00:11:35,206 --> 00:11:38,241
But we shouldn't dismiss Dr Marx
quite yet.
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It's true, he talked quite a lot
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about class exploitation,
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misery, chaos.
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But he didn't think capitalism
was all bad.
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Far from it.
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This cocktail bar
in London's Soho
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hides a revolutionary past.
249
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It used to be The Red Lion Pub,
250
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site of a clandestine meeting
of communists in 1847
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that would echo down the ages.
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It was at that meeting
that they commissioned
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00:12:13,862 --> 00:12:16,620
Karl Marx and his sidekick,
Friedrich Engels,
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00:12:16,724 --> 00:12:18,689
to write one
of the most incendiary pamphlets
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00:12:18,793 --> 00:12:19,965
of all time,
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00:12:20,068 --> 00:12:22,758
'The Communist Manifesto'.
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It goes through
a number of drafts.
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Engels is the key drafter
on the texts,
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but then Marx takes it away,
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and in a sort of, you know,
261
00:12:32,620 --> 00:12:34,379
massive essay crisis style,
262
00:12:34,482 --> 00:12:37,137
just sits down
and writes the thing.
263
00:12:37,241 --> 00:12:38,689
And that's the beauty of it.
264
00:12:38,793 --> 00:12:41,586
Because it might have been
organised by a committee,
265
00:12:41,689 --> 00:12:43,379
but it's written by one man.
266
00:12:43,482 --> 00:12:45,965
And that energy, that brio,
that passion
267
00:12:46,068 --> 00:12:48,034
which is in the manifesto,
comes from the fact
268
00:12:48,137 --> 00:12:50,655
it has a single author
in the final stages,
269
00:12:50,758 --> 00:12:51,862
which is Marx.
270
00:12:56,793 --> 00:12:58,655
Narrator: You may know it
for its revolutionary calls
271
00:12:58,758 --> 00:13:00,724
for a new age.
272
00:13:00,827 --> 00:13:03,172
What might surprise you
is that it also contains
273
00:13:03,275 --> 00:13:07,103
very perceptive and admiring
writing about capitalism.
274
00:13:09,172 --> 00:13:11,448
I think what's surprising
of a lot of Marx's writing
275
00:13:11,551 --> 00:13:13,896
is that you find,
in amongst the communism,
276
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,620
a lot of good analysis
of capitalism.
277
00:13:16,724 --> 00:13:19,275
And, actually,
you also find within it
278
00:13:19,379 --> 00:13:21,724
quite a lot of praise
for capitalism.
279
00:13:21,827 --> 00:13:24,413
Marx's attitude
towards capitalism
280
00:13:24,517 --> 00:13:27,482
is basically ambiguous.
281
00:13:27,586 --> 00:13:30,137
At the same time,
he was honest here, Marx.
282
00:13:30,241 --> 00:13:31,482
Ultra-fascinated.
283
00:13:31,586 --> 00:13:32,862
He was fully aware that this
284
00:13:32,965 --> 00:13:36,310
is the most productive,
dynamic system
285
00:13:36,413 --> 00:13:38,241
in the history of humanity,
and so on.
286
00:13:38,344 --> 00:13:42,000
He praises it
for its huge force,
287
00:13:42,103 --> 00:13:44,931
for, as far as he can see it,
for progress.
288
00:13:45,034 --> 00:13:48,172
For tossing aside the traditions
and the customs of the old world
289
00:13:48,275 --> 00:13:50,413
and making way for a new one.
290
00:13:50,517 --> 00:13:52,758
And I think
it's quite interesting
291
00:13:52,862 --> 00:13:54,448
the more intelligent
modern Marxists
292
00:13:54,551 --> 00:13:56,000
feel much the same way.
293
00:13:58,172 --> 00:14:00,172
Narrator: The truth is,
Marx did understand
294
00:14:00,275 --> 00:14:01,724
that the drive for profit
295
00:14:01,827 --> 00:14:04,068
would achieve incredible things.
296
00:14:07,068 --> 00:14:08,275
It's been the first to show
297
00:14:08,379 --> 00:14:10,793
what man's activity
can bring about.
298
00:14:10,896 --> 00:14:13,172
It has accomplished wonders
far surpassing
299
00:14:13,275 --> 00:14:14,517
Egyptian pyramids,
300
00:14:14,620 --> 00:14:15,620
Roman aqueducts
301
00:14:15,724 --> 00:14:17,655
and Gothic cathedrals.
302
00:14:24,103 --> 00:14:26,137
- He did really get
the kind of global aspect.
303
00:14:26,241 --> 00:14:27,827
He got the idea that
304
00:14:27,931 --> 00:14:29,655
people were suddenly being able
to get things
305
00:14:29,758 --> 00:14:30,862
from all the way
around the world,
306
00:14:30,965 --> 00:14:34,241
in a completely new way,
and the impact of that.
307
00:14:34,344 --> 00:14:36,034
Narrator: The need
of a constantly expanding market
308
00:14:36,137 --> 00:14:37,034
for its products
309
00:14:37,137 --> 00:14:38,413
chases the bourgeoisie
310
00:14:38,517 --> 00:14:40,896
over the entire surface
of the globe.
311
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,275
It must nestle everywhere,
312
00:14:42,379 --> 00:14:43,482
settle everywhere,
313
00:14:43,586 --> 00:14:46,034
establish connections
everywhere.
314
00:14:47,827 --> 00:14:51,517
It creates a world
after its own image.
315
00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:54,103
But you know,
there's got to be a downside
316
00:14:54,206 --> 00:14:55,620
for the bourgeoisie.
317
00:14:55,724 --> 00:14:58,310
Modern bourgeois society
is like the sorcerer,
318
00:14:58,413 --> 00:15:01,793
who is no longer able to control
the powers of the netherworld,
319
00:15:01,896 --> 00:15:04,724
whom he has called up
by his spells.
320
00:15:04,827 --> 00:15:07,931
What the bourgeoisie
therefore produces, above all,
321
00:15:08,034 --> 00:15:09,827
is its own gravediggers.
322
00:15:11,965 --> 00:15:13,137
Its fall,
323
00:15:13,241 --> 00:15:14,758
and the victory
of the proletariat,
324
00:15:14,862 --> 00:15:17,275
are equally inevitable.
325
00:15:17,379 --> 00:15:19,758
How can Marx think
capitalism is so brilliant,
326
00:15:19,862 --> 00:15:22,068
and, also, so doomed?
327
00:15:22,172 --> 00:15:24,862
Well, the answer lies
in how it treats the workers.
328
00:15:34,034 --> 00:15:36,827
To understand
Marx's analysis of crises,
329
00:15:36,931 --> 00:15:38,275
we have to first understand
330
00:15:38,379 --> 00:15:40,655
the capitalism that he knew.
331
00:15:40,758 --> 00:15:42,344
19th century capitalists
332
00:15:42,448 --> 00:15:46,000
might have built wonders
surpassing Egyptian pyramids,
333
00:15:46,103 --> 00:15:48,448
but they also
forced their workers
334
00:15:48,551 --> 00:15:51,000
to endure
terrible conditions and pay.
335
00:15:52,275 --> 00:15:55,344
- It is difficult
to overstate the horror
336
00:15:55,448 --> 00:15:58,241
of industrialisation in Europe.
337
00:15:58,344 --> 00:16:00,310
In 1829,
338
00:16:00,413 --> 00:16:02,103
Liverpool, for example,
339
00:16:02,206 --> 00:16:05,172
the life expectancy at birth
was about 28 years.
340
00:16:05,275 --> 00:16:08,758
And that was the lowest age
since the Black Death.
341
00:16:08,862 --> 00:16:11,689
So, the impact
of the Industrial Revolution
342
00:16:11,793 --> 00:16:13,724
on life chances,
on life expectancy,
343
00:16:13,827 --> 00:16:16,448
in the great cities of Europe,
344
00:16:16,551 --> 00:16:20,931
in Hamburg, in Berlin,
345
00:16:21,034 --> 00:16:23,724
in Manchester, in Liverpool,
in Birmingham, in London,
346
00:16:23,827 --> 00:16:26,275
was absolutely terrifying.
347
00:16:26,379 --> 00:16:30,551
This was a revolutionary epoch
of change,
348
00:16:30,655 --> 00:16:32,758
which, for the working classes,
349
00:16:32,862 --> 00:16:36,275
which, for the proletariat,
in the 1820s and 1830s,
350
00:16:36,379 --> 00:16:39,344
had devastating consequences
for their standards of living.
351
00:16:39,448 --> 00:16:43,241
Marx is certainly revered
amongst historians
352
00:16:43,344 --> 00:16:47,206
as the pre-eminent analyst
of mid-19th-century capitalism.
353
00:16:48,379 --> 00:16:51,517
No-one before Marx,
or possibly since,
354
00:16:51,620 --> 00:16:53,655
had really,
has really been able
355
00:16:53,758 --> 00:16:56,034
to get into that system
356
00:16:56,137 --> 00:17:00,551
of mid-19th-century
Western-European capitalism,
357
00:17:00,655 --> 00:17:02,034
based on a, kind of,
358
00:17:02,137 --> 00:17:06,379
urban manufacturing set
of relationships.
359
00:17:06,482 --> 00:17:11,000
Whether that's relevant today
is a very interesting question.
360
00:17:11,103 --> 00:17:12,862
Narrator: The horrors
of Victorian working conditions
361
00:17:12,965 --> 00:17:15,517
clearly shaped Marx's economics.
362
00:17:18,034 --> 00:17:20,206
In his time,
minimum pay for proles
363
00:17:20,310 --> 00:17:22,896
meant maximum profits
for bosses.
364
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,689
And any bosses
who did choose to pay more
365
00:17:25,793 --> 00:17:27,172
usually went bust.
366
00:17:31,620 --> 00:17:34,206
Subsistence wages
will always be paid
367
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:36,379
in the Marxian system.
368
00:17:36,482 --> 00:17:38,724
So, now, subsistence wages,
of course,
369
00:17:38,827 --> 00:17:41,965
is a little bit
of a flexible object, right?
370
00:17:42,068 --> 00:17:44,000
What we think of
as the subsistence wage now
371
00:17:44,103 --> 00:17:46,448
might not be the same
as Marx thought it was
372
00:17:46,551 --> 00:17:47,689
in the mid-19th century.
373
00:17:47,793 --> 00:17:50,862
But still,
there's no obvious way
374
00:17:50,965 --> 00:17:53,586
that wages will arrive
above a subsistence level.
375
00:17:53,689 --> 00:17:55,551
He thought there'd always be
downward pressure on wages,
376
00:17:55,655 --> 00:17:58,034
and that wages would come down
to the minimum
377
00:17:58,137 --> 00:17:59,689
that enabled bare survival.
378
00:17:59,793 --> 00:18:01,068
They couldn't go lower
than that,
379
00:18:01,172 --> 00:18:02,448
otherwise the workers would die.
380
00:18:02,551 --> 00:18:03,758
But he thought
they'd be depressed
381
00:18:03,862 --> 00:18:04,793
down to that minimum.
382
00:18:04,896 --> 00:18:06,758
The reality, of course,
has been the opposite.
383
00:18:06,862 --> 00:18:09,034
It has been
a continual advancement
384
00:18:09,137 --> 00:18:12,310
in wages - year in, year out,
decade in, decade out.
385
00:18:16,172 --> 00:18:17,482
Narrator: Marx was wrong.
386
00:18:17,586 --> 00:18:19,517
He thought
it would all get so bad,
387
00:18:19,620 --> 00:18:21,931
the workers
would overthrow the system.
388
00:18:24,413 --> 00:18:25,724
Yet, even as he was writing,
389
00:18:25,827 --> 00:18:27,517
reformers were beginning
to get rid
390
00:18:27,620 --> 00:18:29,620
of the worst
employment practises.
391
00:18:31,344 --> 00:18:34,310
Capitalism got kinder,
not nastier.
392
00:18:34,413 --> 00:18:36,793
But the idea
that the competing interests
393
00:18:36,896 --> 00:18:39,689
of bosses and workers
would cause crises,
394
00:18:39,793 --> 00:18:41,896
well, that does seem relevant
today.
395
00:18:45,103 --> 00:18:46,724
Marx wrote
that the ultimate cause
396
00:18:46,827 --> 00:18:48,206
of all real crises
397
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:50,137
always remained the poverty
398
00:18:50,241 --> 00:18:52,620
and restricted consumption
of the masses.
399
00:18:52,724 --> 00:18:55,379
Put simply,
if workers aren't paid enough,
400
00:18:55,482 --> 00:18:57,482
they don't have enough money
to spend in shops,
401
00:18:57,586 --> 00:18:59,758
and the economy
doesn't stay afloat.
402
00:19:01,206 --> 00:19:02,172
Some believe this idea
403
00:19:02,275 --> 00:19:04,724
is very useful
in understanding the crisis
404
00:19:04,827 --> 00:19:06,068
we're living through today.
405
00:19:19,448 --> 00:19:22,068
Let's take a look
at the last 40 years of history
406
00:19:22,172 --> 00:19:25,000
through the prism
of Marx's theories,
407
00:19:25,103 --> 00:19:27,310
to show how they might explain
the mess we're in.
408
00:19:29,137 --> 00:19:32,206
An imaginary 'Marxist
Broadcasting Corporation'
409
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:35,172
would see it all
as a good old 1970s-style
410
00:19:35,275 --> 00:19:36,586
class struggle.
411
00:19:39,551 --> 00:19:40,896
The fight is over wages.
412
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,172
Capitalists want to pay less,
the workers want to get more.
413
00:19:44,275 --> 00:19:46,000
Man: [over megaphone]
All those in favour,
414
00:19:46,103 --> 00:19:47,310
please show!
415
00:19:49,551 --> 00:19:51,620
Narrator: In the '70s,
powerful trade unions
416
00:19:51,724 --> 00:19:53,896
battled to keep wages high.
417
00:19:54,931 --> 00:19:56,344
But then, we come to the '80s.
418
00:19:56,448 --> 00:19:58,793
Fightback time
for the capitalists.
419
00:20:00,586 --> 00:20:02,862
There she is, look,
can't you see her now? Look.
420
00:20:02,965 --> 00:20:04,068
Narrator: Marx would have seen
421
00:20:04,172 --> 00:20:05,758
Margaret Thatcher
and Ronald Reagan
422
00:20:05,862 --> 00:20:07,482
as acting purely
in the interests
423
00:20:07,586 --> 00:20:09,310
of the capitalist bosses.
424
00:20:11,310 --> 00:20:13,448
It was their governments
that helped business,
425
00:20:13,551 --> 00:20:14,724
by getting rid of the obstacles
426
00:20:14,827 --> 00:20:18,172
that made it hard to cut wages.
427
00:20:18,275 --> 00:20:20,896
- The vilest intimidation
we have seen
428
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,482
should never have happened.
429
00:20:22,586 --> 00:20:24,724
It is the work of extremists.
430
00:20:24,827 --> 00:20:26,413
It is the enemy within.
431
00:20:26,517 --> 00:20:29,551
..and if they do not report
for work within 48 hours,
432
00:20:29,655 --> 00:20:33,310
they have forfeited their jobs
and will be terminated.
433
00:20:35,551 --> 00:20:38,034
Narrator: So, for the 'Marxist
Broadcasting Corporation',
434
00:20:38,137 --> 00:20:40,068
the capitalists won
in the 1980s,
435
00:20:40,172 --> 00:20:42,724
and they kept on winning.
436
00:20:42,827 --> 00:20:45,448
The guaranteed high wages
and job security
437
00:20:45,551 --> 00:20:49,034
that workers had enjoyed
until the '70s had gone.
438
00:20:49,137 --> 00:20:52,551
And downward pressure on wages
started to lay the seeds
439
00:20:52,655 --> 00:20:54,448
of the crisis we see today.
440
00:20:56,931 --> 00:20:58,931
It's an appealingly
simple story,
441
00:20:59,034 --> 00:21:02,172
but how much truth is there
in it?
442
00:21:02,275 --> 00:21:03,862
Well, we know the Marxist view
of history
443
00:21:03,965 --> 00:21:05,000
is right about one thing,
444
00:21:05,103 --> 00:21:06,620
at least in Britain and America.
445
00:21:06,724 --> 00:21:08,413
Earnings at the very top
have soared
446
00:21:08,517 --> 00:21:09,655
in the last few years,
447
00:21:09,758 --> 00:21:12,000
and everyone else
has been squeezed.
448
00:21:13,206 --> 00:21:14,896
In Britain,
real earnings have been flat
449
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,827
or falling
for the best part of ten years,
450
00:21:16,931 --> 00:21:18,724
since before the crisis.
451
00:21:18,827 --> 00:21:20,275
In America,
452
00:21:20,379 --> 00:21:22,448
that's been happening
since the 1970s.
453
00:21:26,620 --> 00:21:29,413
- In the United States,
454
00:21:29,517 --> 00:21:31,482
a full-time male worker,
455
00:21:31,586 --> 00:21:33,758
median income has stagnated
456
00:21:33,862 --> 00:21:35,137
for a third of a century.
457
00:21:36,034 --> 00:21:36,965
No increase.
458
00:21:37,068 --> 00:21:38,758
Household income today
459
00:21:38,862 --> 00:21:41,344
is the same as it was
460
00:21:41,448 --> 00:21:42,758
15 years ago.
461
00:21:42,862 --> 00:21:45,862
All the increase to the income
has gone to the top.
462
00:21:45,965 --> 00:21:48,206
The share of income
463
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:49,896
in the United States,
464
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,965
that was going to the top 1%
of the households,
465
00:21:54,068 --> 00:21:55,482
20 years ago,
466
00:21:55,586 --> 00:21:59,448
was around 12%.
467
00:21:59,551 --> 00:22:04,620
Today, that share
is closer to 23%.
468
00:22:10,137 --> 00:22:12,172
Narrator: Things haven't gone
that far in the UK,
469
00:22:12,275 --> 00:22:15,586
but inequality's certainly
creeping up the agenda.
470
00:22:17,931 --> 00:22:19,965
But rather than see it
as a deliberate strategy
471
00:22:20,068 --> 00:22:22,206
on the part
of greedy capitalists,
472
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:24,965
we have to recognise
there are bigger forces at work.
473
00:22:31,413 --> 00:22:33,965
A lot of it's down
to new technology.
474
00:22:39,413 --> 00:22:41,137
Work previously done by hand
475
00:22:41,241 --> 00:22:42,862
is now done by machines.
476
00:22:45,689 --> 00:22:47,137
With fewer workers needed,
477
00:22:47,241 --> 00:22:48,793
there are more competing
for every job,
478
00:22:48,896 --> 00:22:51,068
meaning bosses
can pay them less.
479
00:22:53,896 --> 00:22:56,275
But perhaps
the most significant factor
480
00:22:56,379 --> 00:22:57,793
is globalisation.
481
00:22:59,931 --> 00:23:02,517
With falling barriers to trade
around the world,
482
00:23:02,620 --> 00:23:04,206
global business
has gained access
483
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:08,172
to a giant new pool
of cheaper labour.
484
00:23:08,275 --> 00:23:11,241
- You have brought
into the market, now,
485
00:23:11,344 --> 00:23:13,862
millions and millions
of new workers.
486
00:23:13,965 --> 00:23:18,620
In China, in India,
in other parts of Asia,
487
00:23:18,724 --> 00:23:21,793
in parts of South America,
Brazil, for instance.
488
00:23:21,896 --> 00:23:25,793
So, that process has transformed
489
00:23:25,896 --> 00:23:29,310
the capital labour ratio
on a global scale.
490
00:23:30,724 --> 00:23:32,896
- Clearly,
competition from countries
491
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,310
around the world
492
00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:37,793
has put pressure
on certain jobs,
493
00:23:37,896 --> 00:23:40,482
typically jobs that can be done
at a distance.
494
00:23:40,586 --> 00:23:43,482
So for example, an analyst,
495
00:23:43,586 --> 00:23:45,379
can, as well, be sitting
496
00:23:45,482 --> 00:23:49,000
in the Philippines
or in Mumbai,
497
00:23:49,103 --> 00:23:50,793
to do the job that is done
498
00:23:50,896 --> 00:23:53,482
at a much higher price
in New York.
499
00:23:57,517 --> 00:24:00,034
Narrator: Many workers
in the rich countries
500
00:24:00,137 --> 00:24:03,448
are now competing
with an industrial reserve army,
501
00:24:03,551 --> 00:24:05,241
running into the billions.
502
00:24:05,344 --> 00:24:07,655
- I think,
in emerging market economies,
503
00:24:07,758 --> 00:24:09,724
there'd be an overwhelming vote
504
00:24:09,827 --> 00:24:11,413
in favour of what has happened
505
00:24:11,517 --> 00:24:12,689
because almost everyone
506
00:24:12,793 --> 00:24:16,034
is better off than they were,
and would've been.
507
00:24:16,137 --> 00:24:18,344
But that's less evident
in the industrialised world,
508
00:24:18,448 --> 00:24:21,793
and many lower-paid people
have become even lower paid,
509
00:24:21,896 --> 00:24:24,000
relative to those
who've prospered.
510
00:24:24,103 --> 00:24:25,172
And that is a concern.
511
00:24:29,517 --> 00:24:31,068
Narrator: It's an analysis
that rings true,
512
00:24:31,172 --> 00:24:33,965
even for the leader
of the world's biggest economy.
513
00:24:34,068 --> 00:24:36,931
[applause]
514
00:24:37,034 --> 00:24:38,517
- Long before the recession,
515
00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:41,000
jobs and manufacturing
began leaving our shores.
516
00:24:42,241 --> 00:24:44,689
Technology made businesses
more efficient,
517
00:24:44,793 --> 00:24:46,620
but also made some jobs
obsolete.
518
00:24:48,448 --> 00:24:50,103
Folks at the top
saw their incomes rise
519
00:24:50,206 --> 00:24:51,379
like never before.
520
00:24:52,517 --> 00:24:53,724
But most hard-working Americans
521
00:24:53,827 --> 00:24:55,931
struggled with costs
that were growing,
522
00:24:56,034 --> 00:24:57,137
pay cheques that weren't,
523
00:24:58,482 --> 00:25:00,758
and personal debt
that kept piling up.
524
00:25:00,862 --> 00:25:01,724
Narrator: So, for Marx,
525
00:25:01,827 --> 00:25:03,517
low wages
would be the root cause
526
00:25:03,620 --> 00:25:05,517
of the crisis
we're living through today.
527
00:25:06,758 --> 00:25:08,758
- Even leaving aside
528
00:25:08,862 --> 00:25:12,068
the morality question
of whether it's fair
529
00:25:12,172 --> 00:25:16,206
to have a highly unequal
distribution
530
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:18,379
of income and wealth,
531
00:25:18,482 --> 00:25:23,034
even purely in terms
of economic efficiency,
532
00:25:23,137 --> 00:25:27,103
having that redistribution
of income from labour capital,
533
00:25:27,206 --> 00:25:28,931
from wages to profit,
534
00:25:29,034 --> 00:25:31,206
there's a negative
economic effect.
535
00:25:31,310 --> 00:25:34,000
Because it tends to reduce
aggregate demand,
536
00:25:34,103 --> 00:25:37,620
because it reduces the income
of those who tend to spend more.
537
00:25:39,482 --> 00:25:40,862
Narrator: Of course,
in the late 20th century,
538
00:25:40,965 --> 00:25:44,241
that problem could be solved -
temporarily, of course.
539
00:25:44,344 --> 00:25:46,586
Step forward, the credit card.
540
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,655
You had more inequality,
541
00:25:50,758 --> 00:25:53,103
you had more concern
amongst the public,
542
00:25:53,206 --> 00:25:56,310
and I think that put pressure
to do something.
543
00:25:56,413 --> 00:25:58,517
Democracies work well
with pressure,
544
00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:01,206
put pressure for the politicians
to do something
545
00:26:01,310 --> 00:26:03,379
for the people
being left behind.
546
00:26:03,482 --> 00:26:04,724
The right thing to do,
in my view,
547
00:26:04,827 --> 00:26:06,620
would've been focus much more
on education,
548
00:26:06,724 --> 00:26:08,862
on skill building.
549
00:26:08,965 --> 00:26:12,655
What happened was
a more shorter-term solution,
550
00:26:12,758 --> 00:26:15,689
which was, give them credit.
551
00:26:15,793 --> 00:26:18,517
Narrator: With consumer credit,
people can carry on spending,
552
00:26:18,620 --> 00:26:20,448
even if
they haven't got the money.
553
00:26:22,862 --> 00:26:24,724
The economy stays afloat,
554
00:26:24,827 --> 00:26:29,034
and the capitalists
still make their profit.
555
00:26:29,137 --> 00:26:33,103
As we know, it went well beyond
credit cards.
556
00:26:33,206 --> 00:26:35,172
What ultimately
brought the crisis to a head
557
00:26:35,275 --> 00:26:37,827
was the billions borrowed
on mortgages.
558
00:26:37,931 --> 00:26:39,931
People thought
the value of their house
559
00:26:40,034 --> 00:26:41,344
would keep going up forever.
560
00:26:42,517 --> 00:26:45,068
- Housing credit is beautiful.
561
00:26:45,172 --> 00:26:47,275
Because if your house price
is increasing,
562
00:26:47,379 --> 00:26:48,758
and you're borrowing
563
00:26:48,862 --> 00:26:51,655
against the increasing value
of your house,
564
00:26:51,758 --> 00:26:54,103
you don't feel you're borrowing
your way into debt.
565
00:26:55,206 --> 00:26:57,965
Narrator: But, of course,
you are.
566
00:26:58,068 --> 00:27:00,448
In America,
it happened on a massive scale.
567
00:27:01,965 --> 00:27:02,965
There, as we know,
568
00:27:03,068 --> 00:27:06,551
the capitalists
were getting richer and richer.
569
00:27:08,931 --> 00:27:11,310
They couldn't spend
all of their extra money.
570
00:27:11,413 --> 00:27:12,689
Driven, as ever,
571
00:27:12,793 --> 00:27:15,275
by the desire
to make more profit,
572
00:27:15,379 --> 00:27:19,000
they lent it out,
in riskier and riskier ways.
573
00:27:20,034 --> 00:27:22,103
The name given to this lending
574
00:27:22,206 --> 00:27:23,862
might well be familiar -
575
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,275
subprime.
576
00:27:32,379 --> 00:27:35,896
- What we did is,
as the incomes of most Americans
577
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,172
were stagnating
578
00:27:37,275 --> 00:27:39,827
or even declining, we said,
579
00:27:39,931 --> 00:27:41,344
"Don't let it bother you.
580
00:27:42,655 --> 00:27:45,275
"Keep spending
as if your income was going up."
581
00:27:45,379 --> 00:27:47,551
And they did that very well.
582
00:27:47,655 --> 00:27:49,000
I mean, who would oppose it?
583
00:27:49,103 --> 00:27:51,034
The banks were making money,
584
00:27:51,137 --> 00:27:53,827
the households
were getting their house,
585
00:27:53,931 --> 00:27:55,862
the politicians
will have happy constituents.
586
00:27:55,965 --> 00:27:58,689
I mean, there is nobody
who's going to be unhappy
587
00:27:58,793 --> 00:28:01,275
in this process
until it collapses.
588
00:28:01,379 --> 00:28:04,448
Subprime is the endgame,
if you like, of...
589
00:28:06,862 --> 00:28:11,068
..the debt solution
to the lack of a market.
590
00:28:13,655 --> 00:28:19,000
And it's the culmination
of trying to evade crises
591
00:28:19,103 --> 00:28:21,586
which arise out of lack
of effective demand
592
00:28:21,689 --> 00:28:23,758
in the market.
593
00:28:23,862 --> 00:28:25,655
And then what you do
is you end up
594
00:28:25,758 --> 00:28:28,310
creating a credit crisis,
instead.
595
00:28:28,413 --> 00:28:31,379
So subprime is the end
of that process.
596
00:28:34,793 --> 00:28:36,482
Narrator: And we all know
how it ended.
597
00:28:37,724 --> 00:28:39,931
In retrospect,
it seems obvious,
598
00:28:40,034 --> 00:28:41,931
lending to people
who couldn't afford it
599
00:28:42,034 --> 00:28:44,827
wasn't a lasting solution
to anything.
600
00:28:44,931 --> 00:28:47,620
It led to a housing bubble,
which burst,
601
00:28:47,724 --> 00:28:50,275
threatening some of the world's
biggest banks.
602
00:28:51,482 --> 00:28:52,862
And thanks
to our integrated world,
603
00:28:52,965 --> 00:28:55,965
what started
in the United States spread
604
00:28:56,068 --> 00:28:58,172
and infected the entire system,
605
00:28:58,275 --> 00:28:59,724
causing a global recession.
606
00:29:07,482 --> 00:29:09,689
Capital, when it's faced
with a problem,
607
00:29:09,793 --> 00:29:12,931
usually seeks to move it around.
608
00:29:13,034 --> 00:29:16,068
It moves it from one sector
to another,
609
00:29:16,172 --> 00:29:18,551
or from one geographical region
from another.
610
00:29:19,896 --> 00:29:22,655
Any part of the world
that's in economic difficulties
611
00:29:22,758 --> 00:29:24,482
will seek to unload
those difficulties
612
00:29:24,586 --> 00:29:26,103
on another part of the world.
613
00:29:27,724 --> 00:29:30,137
What will also happen is that,
614
00:29:30,241 --> 00:29:32,206
if there's a problem
in the banking system,
615
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:35,137
they will seek to move it
into the state system,
616
00:29:35,241 --> 00:29:36,965
and if it's a problem
in the state system,
617
00:29:37,068 --> 00:29:38,068
they'll try and move it
618
00:29:38,172 --> 00:29:40,620
onto the taxation
and austerity of the people
619
00:29:40,724 --> 00:29:42,586
to extract the wealth
620
00:29:42,689 --> 00:29:44,482
from a population.
621
00:29:46,448 --> 00:29:48,793
Narrator:
It's an extraordinary tale.
622
00:29:48,896 --> 00:29:51,896
And a lot of people would say
it's completely wrong.
623
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,517
Marxism doesn't actually work,
624
00:29:53,620 --> 00:29:54,620
but it keeps coming back,
625
00:29:54,724 --> 00:29:56,586
'cause it makes
for a good story.
626
00:29:56,689 --> 00:29:58,724
I don't think low wages
played any role at all
627
00:29:58,827 --> 00:30:00,137
in causing the crisis.
628
00:30:00,241 --> 00:30:01,172
The crisis was caused
629
00:30:01,275 --> 00:30:03,862
by governments and central banks
flooding the market
630
00:30:03,965 --> 00:30:05,620
with cheap credit
and cheap money,
631
00:30:05,724 --> 00:30:07,965
because politicians
don't like the downturn
632
00:30:08,068 --> 00:30:10,000
in an economy
that throws people out of work.
633
00:30:10,103 --> 00:30:13,068
I think it may have,
to some degree,
634
00:30:13,172 --> 00:30:15,034
increased the level
of indebtedness
635
00:30:15,137 --> 00:30:17,379
that people went into
the crisis with,
636
00:30:17,482 --> 00:30:21,482
which I think intensifies
how deep the crisis became.
637
00:30:21,586 --> 00:30:23,000
But it wasn't
the underlying cause,
638
00:30:23,103 --> 00:30:25,758
it was a contextual factor,
which made it a bit worse.
639
00:30:25,862 --> 00:30:27,689
Narrator:
But the idea that low wages
640
00:30:27,793 --> 00:30:30,586
may have contributed
to the crisis is gaining ground,
641
00:30:30,689 --> 00:30:32,965
in some surprising places.
642
00:30:34,896 --> 00:30:37,482
- It was on this trading floor.
643
00:30:37,586 --> 00:30:40,620
It was probably the weekend
before Lehman's went bust
644
00:30:40,724 --> 00:30:44,413
and it's, normally,
a little bit noisy.
645
00:30:44,517 --> 00:30:46,655
But at the time,
you could hear a pin drop.
646
00:30:46,758 --> 00:30:48,413
It was that deathly quiet.
647
00:30:48,517 --> 00:30:50,551
And I could almost feel,
you know,
648
00:30:50,655 --> 00:30:53,517
that the global system
was frozen.
649
00:30:54,448 --> 00:30:56,103
And it was quite
a scary thought.
650
00:30:56,206 --> 00:30:58,448
It took me back
to a lot of the things
651
00:30:58,551 --> 00:31:00,034
that I used to read about
and study
652
00:31:00,137 --> 00:31:01,793
when I was much younger,
653
00:31:01,896 --> 00:31:05,034
the days when
I actually read Marx for fun.
654
00:31:05,137 --> 00:31:08,586
It was a comment
that I posted up on a newswire,
655
00:31:08,689 --> 00:31:12,482
and it was one of the most
commented-upon pieces
656
00:31:12,586 --> 00:31:13,896
for quite a few weeks.
657
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,758
But there are a lot of people
658
00:31:15,862 --> 00:31:18,275
who were quite opposed
to the idea
659
00:31:18,379 --> 00:31:21,827
that anything
that was socialistic or Marxist
660
00:31:21,931 --> 00:31:23,172
you know, could be a tool
661
00:31:23,275 --> 00:31:25,862
considered serious
in the mainstream.
662
00:31:25,965 --> 00:31:27,379
A lot of this hate mail,
I have to say,
663
00:31:27,482 --> 00:31:28,689
came from the United States
664
00:31:28,793 --> 00:31:32,344
and I was accused of being,
you know, an Obama clone.
665
00:31:32,448 --> 00:31:34,413
So there was a lot
of negative reaction
666
00:31:34,517 --> 00:31:36,241
from, I think,
people that probably,
667
00:31:36,344 --> 00:31:38,310
predictably, you know,
668
00:31:38,413 --> 00:31:40,896
had already tied
their own ideological colours
669
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,344
to the mast.
670
00:31:42,448 --> 00:31:44,862
Narrator: But the people
who do find value in Marx
671
00:31:44,965 --> 00:31:47,413
aren't necessarily
going to follow him all the way.
672
00:31:47,517 --> 00:31:50,482
- I don't think
anybody seriously believes
673
00:31:50,586 --> 00:31:52,275
that, you know,
this is all about,
674
00:31:52,379 --> 00:31:53,689
the, you know,
675
00:31:53,793 --> 00:31:55,517
dawn of the dictatorship
of the proletariat,
676
00:31:55,620 --> 00:31:56,689
or anything like this.
677
00:31:56,793 --> 00:31:59,551
I think Marx helps
in framing the problem,
678
00:31:59,655 --> 00:32:02,793
but I think the solutions
have to be different,
679
00:32:02,896 --> 00:32:04,689
given the different environment
we are in.
680
00:32:06,827 --> 00:32:08,551
Narrator:
Except, Marx would insist
681
00:32:08,655 --> 00:32:11,344
the trap is inescapable.
682
00:32:11,448 --> 00:32:14,000
Capitalists must seek profit
above all else,
683
00:32:14,103 --> 00:32:16,000
or they'll go out of business.
684
00:32:16,103 --> 00:32:17,379
So why would they ever choose
685
00:32:17,482 --> 00:32:19,586
to give workers
a bigger share of the pie?
686
00:32:20,931 --> 00:32:23,551
- What Marx would say is that
687
00:32:23,655 --> 00:32:26,724
we have to look for ways
out of this crisis
688
00:32:26,827 --> 00:32:29,482
which look beyond
the restoration
689
00:32:29,586 --> 00:32:31,000
of capitalist-class power.
690
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,068
And I think this is a time
691
00:32:33,172 --> 00:32:34,517
when we actually need
to start thinking
692
00:32:34,620 --> 00:32:36,689
about the revolutionary solution
again.
693
00:32:40,517 --> 00:32:43,448
Narrator: But who exactly
is revolting against whom?
694
00:32:43,551 --> 00:32:46,758
Marx divided the world neatly
into workers and capitalists,
695
00:32:46,862 --> 00:32:50,482
but today, his stark distinction
is incredibly blurred.
696
00:32:50,586 --> 00:32:53,586
Bosses work for themselves,
and workers own shares.
697
00:32:55,103 --> 00:32:57,103
In our modern world,
698
00:32:57,206 --> 00:32:59,275
enough of us do have a stake
in the system,
699
00:32:59,379 --> 00:33:01,586
whether mobile phones
or pension plans,
700
00:33:01,689 --> 00:33:04,551
to stave off talk
of armed revolt.
701
00:33:04,655 --> 00:33:10,137
I think capitalism survives
because, at its core, it works.
702
00:33:10,241 --> 00:33:13,793
It pushes progress.
It pushes people forward,
703
00:33:13,896 --> 00:33:16,620
it appeals to a basic thing
in people's lives,
704
00:33:16,724 --> 00:33:18,241
which is to try and get ahead,
705
00:33:18,344 --> 00:33:20,241
to try and improve things
for their children.
706
00:33:20,344 --> 00:33:23,827
The fact that more people
win from it than lose from it
707
00:33:23,931 --> 00:33:26,172
is the thing
which keeps on pushing it ahead.
708
00:33:26,275 --> 00:33:27,482
Narrator:
But what about the people
709
00:33:27,586 --> 00:33:29,000
capitalism's failing?
710
00:33:29,103 --> 00:33:31,551
What does Marx have to say
to them?
711
00:33:31,655 --> 00:33:34,655
Incredibly, for all
his criticism of capitalism,
712
00:33:34,758 --> 00:33:37,034
he offers us next to no idea
713
00:33:37,137 --> 00:33:39,793
of what a fairer alternative
might look like.
714
00:33:46,206 --> 00:33:48,172
As Marx entered his final years,
715
00:33:48,275 --> 00:33:50,862
he seemed quite content
with the way things were.
716
00:33:52,482 --> 00:33:54,758
He'd been poor
for a lot of his life,
717
00:33:54,862 --> 00:33:59,034
but by 1856, he had enough money
to move to London's suburbs.
718
00:34:02,827 --> 00:34:04,551
The young firebrand
719
00:34:04,655 --> 00:34:07,379
now looked like
part of the establishment.
720
00:34:07,482 --> 00:34:11,137
- He would spend his day
walking around Hampstead Heath.
721
00:34:11,241 --> 00:34:14,344
He would spend his day
in correspondence.
722
00:34:14,448 --> 00:34:17,448
He would spend his day,
you know, reading 'The Times'.
723
00:34:17,551 --> 00:34:19,620
He would worry
about personal finances,
724
00:34:19,724 --> 00:34:21,551
he would worry
about his daughters
725
00:34:21,655 --> 00:34:23,586
and the expense
of their piano lessons.
726
00:34:23,689 --> 00:34:27,448
I mean, he lived
a remarkably bourgeois life,
727
00:34:27,551 --> 00:34:29,689
in many ways.
728
00:34:29,793 --> 00:34:32,448
Narrator: Marx didn't want
to rush revolution.
729
00:34:32,551 --> 00:34:33,620
To understand why,
730
00:34:33,724 --> 00:34:37,137
we need to understand
his analysis of world history.
731
00:34:41,448 --> 00:34:44,172
He saw the great sweep
of humanity's endeavours,
732
00:34:44,275 --> 00:34:46,241
from the caveman
733
00:34:46,344 --> 00:34:49,862
to the slave societies
of Greece and Rome,
734
00:34:49,965 --> 00:34:52,689
to the feudalism
of kings and castles.
735
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:56,103
All of which was replaced,
in turn,
736
00:34:56,206 --> 00:34:57,931
by our own capitalist system
737
00:34:58,034 --> 00:35:00,172
of bosses and workers.
738
00:35:00,275 --> 00:35:01,413
- Heave, ho!
[whip crack]
739
00:35:01,517 --> 00:35:03,517
Narrator: Incredibly unfair,
740
00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:06,034
but also, incredibly productive.
741
00:35:09,275 --> 00:35:11,482
Marx said only when we'd got
everything we could
742
00:35:11,586 --> 00:35:12,862
out of capitalism,
743
00:35:12,965 --> 00:35:15,068
could we afford
to have a revolution.
744
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,206
In his words,
745
00:35:21,310 --> 00:35:25,000
"The knell of capitalist
private property sounds.
746
00:35:25,103 --> 00:35:29,034
"The expropriators
are expropriated."
747
00:35:29,137 --> 00:35:31,103
All to be replaced by...
748
00:35:32,586 --> 00:35:34,758
..more or less, nothing.
749
00:35:34,862 --> 00:35:35,862
Irritatingly,
750
00:35:35,965 --> 00:35:39,034
there's next to no alternative
laid out.
751
00:35:39,137 --> 00:35:40,931
- Marx, basically,
752
00:35:41,034 --> 00:35:43,965
was not the one
who simply gave us a blueprint,
753
00:35:44,068 --> 00:35:47,310
you know, five stages
after capitalism, communism,
754
00:35:47,413 --> 00:35:49,103
here you have
the basic guidelines,
755
00:35:49,206 --> 00:35:51,379
what to do and so on. No, no!
756
00:35:51,482 --> 00:35:54,689
It's up to us.
He just opened up the field.
757
00:35:55,862 --> 00:35:57,724
- Is there an alternative
to capitalism?
758
00:35:57,827 --> 00:35:59,758
I've no idea.
759
00:35:59,862 --> 00:36:01,655
Well, I suppose there could be
all kinds of alternatives,
760
00:36:01,758 --> 00:36:03,172
dead-silence, starvation...
761
00:36:05,103 --> 00:36:07,103
..or the end of the world
or anything.
762
00:36:07,206 --> 00:36:09,482
But I simply have no idea
if there is an alternative.
763
00:36:09,586 --> 00:36:10,689
It doesn't occur to me.
764
00:36:10,793 --> 00:36:12,206
It doesn't seem, to me,
to be of importance.
765
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:14,931
It's like saying, is there
an alternative to weather?
766
00:36:15,034 --> 00:36:17,655
I think he would have written
a lot more,
767
00:36:17,758 --> 00:36:19,551
had he lived ten years more,
768
00:36:19,655 --> 00:36:24,482
on what a socialist republic
would look like.
769
00:36:24,586 --> 00:36:26,068
And, who knows?
770
00:36:26,172 --> 00:36:29,379
But that might have saved
the world a lot of bother.
771
00:36:29,482 --> 00:36:32,482
[Soviet Russia anthem plays]
772
00:36:35,068 --> 00:36:37,793
Narrator: Without his blueprint,
we all know what happened next.
773
00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:42,275
There weren't any revolutions
774
00:36:42,379 --> 00:36:44,068
in the rich,
developed countries,
775
00:36:44,172 --> 00:36:45,724
as Marx predicted.
776
00:36:45,827 --> 00:36:49,793
Instead, it happened in one
of the world's poorest nations.
777
00:36:52,172 --> 00:36:55,275
Soviet Russia
may have left Marx far behind,
778
00:36:55,379 --> 00:36:58,275
but it was an attempt
to try something else.
779
00:36:58,379 --> 00:37:01,034
And many have drawn lessons
from its failure.
780
00:37:02,862 --> 00:37:03,862
- The truth is, at the moment,
781
00:37:03,965 --> 00:37:05,551
there are different forms
of capitalism.
782
00:37:05,655 --> 00:37:07,862
Some have
slightly more social democracy,
783
00:37:07,965 --> 00:37:10,310
some are closer
to laissez-faire,
784
00:37:10,413 --> 00:37:12,275
and there's a continuum
between them.
785
00:37:12,379 --> 00:37:15,034
But on the big argument,
about whether you really want
786
00:37:15,137 --> 00:37:17,724
to have a communist system
or a capitalist one,
787
00:37:17,827 --> 00:37:20,517
that is pretty much won
everywhere, I think.
788
00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:23,241
There are more humane versions
of capitalism,
789
00:37:23,344 --> 00:37:27,034
or more barbaric forms
of capitalism.
790
00:37:27,137 --> 00:37:29,310
But I don't think
there's a systemic alternative
791
00:37:29,413 --> 00:37:30,482
to capitalism.
792
00:37:30,586 --> 00:37:32,896
Will there ever be?
Yes, I would think so.
793
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,206
I mean, you know,
nothing is forever.
794
00:37:35,310 --> 00:37:36,551
Absolutely nothing.
795
00:37:36,655 --> 00:37:39,827
And capitalism is not forever.
796
00:37:43,241 --> 00:37:45,724
Narrator: But anyone looking
for a fairer alternative
797
00:37:45,827 --> 00:37:47,655
knows they can't ever repeat
798
00:37:47,758 --> 00:37:50,586
what happened east
of the Berlin Wall.
799
00:37:50,689 --> 00:37:53,310
Dictatorship,
political oppression,
800
00:37:53,413 --> 00:37:55,758
and millions of ruined lives.
801
00:38:03,241 --> 00:38:06,172
From 1945 till 1989,
802
00:38:06,275 --> 00:38:09,137
this was the main remand centre
for political prisoners
803
00:38:09,241 --> 00:38:10,896
in communist East Germany.
804
00:38:12,655 --> 00:38:15,000
Today, it's been turned
into a memorial.
805
00:38:26,931 --> 00:38:28,689
It's possible
that places like this
806
00:38:28,793 --> 00:38:32,482
explain why even capitalism's
toughest critics today
807
00:38:32,586 --> 00:38:35,896
seldom talk seriously
about replacing it.
808
00:38:41,206 --> 00:38:43,034
- You can see,
with all of this protest
809
00:38:43,137 --> 00:38:46,000
in Europe, Greece
and so on...
810
00:38:46,103 --> 00:38:47,931
I was in Spain, in Greece,
811
00:38:48,034 --> 00:38:49,931
asking, always,
the same question.
812
00:38:50,034 --> 00:38:52,827
OK, what do you want?
813
00:38:52,931 --> 00:38:55,965
Apart from
some purely moralistic answers,
814
00:38:56,068 --> 00:38:59,413
I didn't get any good,
concrete proposals.
815
00:38:59,517 --> 00:39:03,275
You know, answers like,
"Oh, money should serve people,
816
00:39:03,379 --> 00:39:05,586
"not people serving money."
817
00:39:05,689 --> 00:39:07,275
My god, Hitler and everyone
818
00:39:07,379 --> 00:39:08,931
would have agreed with this,
I'm sure.
819
00:39:09,034 --> 00:39:10,620
You would've thought,
820
00:39:10,724 --> 00:39:13,310
that with this implosion
of the banking system
821
00:39:13,413 --> 00:39:16,206
at the heart of the capitalism
in the United States,
822
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:18,379
versus the United Kingdom
and so on,
823
00:39:18,482 --> 00:39:22,517
there would be a huge rush
824
00:39:22,620 --> 00:39:25,793
to Marxism
and extreme socialism.
825
00:39:25,896 --> 00:39:27,137
That hasn't really happened.
826
00:39:28,586 --> 00:39:32,620
It is quite surprising,
and I'm very pleased.
827
00:39:37,103 --> 00:39:39,689
Narrator: But if memories
of this place do fade,
828
00:39:39,793 --> 00:39:43,344
could there ever be
an alternative to capitalism?
829
00:39:43,448 --> 00:39:47,206
Or should what happened here
be a lesson for all time?
830
00:39:47,310 --> 00:39:49,172
- I think, if you remove
the free market,
831
00:39:49,275 --> 00:39:51,241
you're removing
people's ability, freely,
832
00:39:51,344 --> 00:39:52,793
to trade with each other.
833
00:39:52,896 --> 00:39:55,206
To acquire the things they want,
834
00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:58,586
and sacrifice for them,
the things that they value less.
835
00:39:58,689 --> 00:40:00,551
You're removing people's ability
836
00:40:00,655 --> 00:40:02,482
to enrich and improve
their lives.
837
00:40:02,586 --> 00:40:05,379
It is a perfectly natural part
of the human condition.
838
00:40:05,482 --> 00:40:07,310
Adam Smith said, the effort
of every person
839
00:40:07,413 --> 00:40:08,758
to improve their condition.
840
00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:10,206
You know,
he thought it was so basic.
841
00:40:10,310 --> 00:40:13,034
If you deny people
the opportunity to do that,
842
00:40:13,137 --> 00:40:16,137
then you'll have to build
some kind of compulsion into it.
843
00:40:16,241 --> 00:40:18,586
You have to make people
behave in a way
844
00:40:18,689 --> 00:40:21,689
in which they would not
spontaneously behave.
845
00:40:21,793 --> 00:40:25,310
- If someone wants to seek
an alternative to capitalism,
846
00:40:25,413 --> 00:40:28,068
then they're saying,
by seeking that alternative,
847
00:40:28,172 --> 00:40:31,448
that capitalism is a system,
848
00:40:31,551 --> 00:40:33,931
rather then a fact of life.
849
00:40:34,034 --> 00:40:35,793
And they're saying that,
for instance,
850
00:40:35,896 --> 00:40:38,034
that human nature
can be altered.
851
00:40:38,137 --> 00:40:39,655
Fundamentally,
they're revealing themselves
852
00:40:39,758 --> 00:40:41,172
as utopian.
853
00:40:41,275 --> 00:40:42,448
And the problem with utopia
854
00:40:42,551 --> 00:40:44,275
is that it can only ever
be approached
855
00:40:44,379 --> 00:40:45,827
across a sea of blood,
856
00:40:45,931 --> 00:40:47,000
and you never arrive.
857
00:40:47,103 --> 00:40:48,896
- This is my big mantra,
858
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,482
when we leftists
are accused of utopians.
859
00:40:51,586 --> 00:40:53,517
Maybe, but the only real utopia
860
00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:57,068
is to think that,
with some cosmetic changes,
861
00:40:57,172 --> 00:41:01,413
things can go on, indefinitely,
the way they are now.
862
00:41:01,517 --> 00:41:02,620
[crowd sings
'The Internationale']
863
00:41:02,724 --> 00:41:07,034
♪ Arise ye starvelings
from your slumbers ♪
864
00:41:07,137 --> 00:41:11,034
♪ Arise ye criminals of want
865
00:41:11,137 --> 00:41:15,689
♪ For reason in revolt
now thunders ♪
866
00:41:15,793 --> 00:41:17,931
♪ And at last ends the age...
867
00:41:18,034 --> 00:41:20,793
Narrator: Marx died in 1883.
868
00:41:20,896 --> 00:41:22,344
In a speech at his grave,
869
00:41:22,448 --> 00:41:24,448
his long-time friend
and collaborator,
870
00:41:24,551 --> 00:41:25,896
Friedrich Engels, declared,
871
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,862
"His name and work will endure
through the ages."
872
00:41:28,965 --> 00:41:33,172
[singing of 'The Internationale'
continues]
873
00:41:33,275 --> 00:41:35,137
Narrator:
For most of the 20th century,
874
00:41:35,241 --> 00:41:37,172
his name did endure,
875
00:41:37,275 --> 00:41:39,551
though usually
for all the wrong reasons.
876
00:41:39,655 --> 00:41:41,724
Still, there are plenty
of people today
877
00:41:41,827 --> 00:41:43,551
who still believe
we should strive
878
00:41:43,655 --> 00:41:45,448
for an alternative
to capitalism.
879
00:41:47,068 --> 00:41:50,482
- Marx did bring together
880
00:41:50,586 --> 00:41:53,172
concrete economic analysis,
881
00:41:53,275 --> 00:41:56,448
with a certain
emancipatory hope.
882
00:41:56,551 --> 00:41:59,137
The message,
it's still a beautiful one -
883
00:41:59,241 --> 00:42:02,620
maybe you ordinary people
have a chance.
884
00:42:02,724 --> 00:42:04,965
I'm not a great eulogiser,
actually,
885
00:42:05,068 --> 00:42:07,000
of anyone,
to tell you the truth.
886
00:42:07,103 --> 00:42:10,517
But if one were to write
a tribute to him,
887
00:42:10,620 --> 00:42:13,000
one would go back,
888
00:42:13,103 --> 00:42:17,241
to Marx's favourite character
in Greek mythology,
889
00:42:17,344 --> 00:42:22,000
Prometheus,
who gave the earthlings fire.
890
00:42:25,310 --> 00:42:28,931
And that is what Marx
gave citizens
891
00:42:29,034 --> 00:42:30,482
all over the globe.
892
00:42:30,586 --> 00:42:32,344
The fire necessary
893
00:42:32,448 --> 00:42:34,965
to transform their lives,
forever.
894
00:42:35,068 --> 00:42:38,379
[singing of 'The Internationale'
continues]
895
00:42:44,068 --> 00:42:45,965
Narrator: But what value
does Marx have
896
00:42:46,068 --> 00:42:48,310
for those less inclined
to revolution?
897
00:42:50,689 --> 00:42:53,275
Fundamentally, Marx reminds us,
898
00:42:53,379 --> 00:42:55,655
if capitalism doesn't work
for everyone,
899
00:42:55,758 --> 00:42:57,103
it might not work at all.
900
00:43:00,310 --> 00:43:01,482
- There is no doubt
901
00:43:01,586 --> 00:43:04,206
that there have been
significant changes
902
00:43:04,310 --> 00:43:05,413
in inequality
903
00:43:05,517 --> 00:43:07,689
and in the distribution
of income,
904
00:43:07,793 --> 00:43:10,758
which make you pause
about the benefits
905
00:43:10,862 --> 00:43:14,793
of the developments of output
and prosperity that we've seen.
906
00:43:14,896 --> 00:43:18,413
And I don't think you can afford
to believe
907
00:43:18,517 --> 00:43:20,379
that the benefits
of a market economy
908
00:43:20,482 --> 00:43:22,586
in bringing prosperity
will be there,
909
00:43:22,689 --> 00:43:24,448
unless there is
a collective commitment
910
00:43:24,551 --> 00:43:25,655
to keep the system going.
911
00:43:25,758 --> 00:43:27,620
And that does require people
to believe
912
00:43:27,724 --> 00:43:29,620
that everyone will benefit
in the end.
913
00:43:29,724 --> 00:43:33,034
I think some of the ugliness
of capitalism
914
00:43:33,137 --> 00:43:36,862
that he saw in the 19th century
915
00:43:36,965 --> 00:43:40,965
seems to be reappearing
in the 20th and 21st.
916
00:43:41,068 --> 00:43:46,586
In a way, we have to keep
our perspective on this.
917
00:43:46,689 --> 00:43:48,655
Health conditions
are much better,
918
00:43:48,758 --> 00:43:52,241
living standards are starting
from a higher level,
919
00:43:52,344 --> 00:43:55,034
but it is still the case
920
00:43:55,137 --> 00:44:00,068
that things aren't the way
they ought to be,
921
00:44:00,172 --> 00:44:03,379
and they're not moving
in the way they should be.
922
00:44:03,482 --> 00:44:08,586
We have to find a way
of creating jobs
923
00:44:08,689 --> 00:44:10,586
which are broad-based,
924
00:44:10,689 --> 00:44:12,517
which pay reasonable amounts.
925
00:44:12,620 --> 00:44:15,000
But at the same time, you know,
926
00:44:15,103 --> 00:44:19,620
without sort of going against
the basic laws of competition.
927
00:44:19,724 --> 00:44:21,448
Narrator: Marx was right
to see capitalism
928
00:44:21,551 --> 00:44:23,655
as inherently unstable,
929
00:44:23,758 --> 00:44:25,655
and often unfair.
930
00:44:25,758 --> 00:44:27,724
Keynes and Hayek saw that, too,
931
00:44:27,827 --> 00:44:29,758
but Marx was the first.
932
00:44:29,862 --> 00:44:32,241
And, unlike them,
he didn't think
933
00:44:32,344 --> 00:44:34,862
we should find a way
to live with it.
934
00:44:34,965 --> 00:44:36,620
He said capitalism
would bounce back
935
00:44:36,724 --> 00:44:39,206
from crises and reinvent itself.
936
00:44:39,310 --> 00:44:41,551
But, in the end,
a compelling alternative
937
00:44:41,655 --> 00:44:44,586
would appear,
and capitalism would collapse.
938
00:44:46,206 --> 00:44:48,551
For all that rings true,
now, in Marx,
939
00:44:48,655 --> 00:44:51,758
on that, he seems to have been
dead wrong.
940
00:44:51,862 --> 00:44:53,896
Captioned by Ai-Media
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