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AMBIENT MUSIC PLAYS
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Hidden away in a corner of Mexico
City, a reclusive artist lived and
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worked for more than half a century.
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She was revered by the Mexican art
world, but never courted publicity,
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and was little-known overseas.
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Surprisingly, she was English, and
her name was Leonora Carrington.
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Now, 100 years since her birth, the
spotlight is at last upon her...
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..and her work is being celebrated
worldwide by museums
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and high-profile admirers.
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Collectors are starting
to take note.
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But what story lay behind this
forgotten artist
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who is inspiring a new generation?
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Leonora had once been at the
epicentre of Surrealism,
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Europe's most
revolutionary art scene...
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and had rubbed shoulders with the
greats of 20th-century art.
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What led this woman, who conquered
Paris in the 1930s,
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to a life in exile so far from home?
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As it turned out,
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hers was a very strange and
extraordinary story indeed.
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Well, I think it's never too late
to mend...
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to mend the fact that
I'm ignored in my own country.
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AMBIENT MUSIC PLAYS
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My mother had imaginary
and real worlds,
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sort of juxtaposed.
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She didn't feel that one was as
alien to the other.
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And my mother felt that there was
always fantastic in the real
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and the other way round...
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..and the mysterious was always
around the corner.
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I was never entirely sure which side
of the canvas she was on.
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She seemed, in her mind, to inhabit
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the places that she painted and the
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creatures that she drew, they were
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just like extensions of her life.
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Everything came from dreams
she had had,
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in some way interpreted into the
canvas.
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We can look at those pictures of
hers and walk around inside them and
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meet these strange creatures
that are there.
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They're usually quite benign, some
of them are a bit scary.
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00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,480
But it's the sort of creatures that
I would be very glad to meet in my
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own dreams.
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I always had access to other
worlds, like we all do.
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We all sleep, we all dream.
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That kind of feeling that you have
in childhood,
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of things being very mysterious.
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PIANO MUSIC PLAYS
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Do you think anybody escapes their
childhood?
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I don't think we do.
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00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:49,960
Well, what my mother told me about
growing up in England was how she
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would create a whole world
of her own,
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00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,640
because she was a pretty solitary
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little girl.
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00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,720
She grew up as the only girl in a
family with three brothers.
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They played together, but they
didn't include her much.
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00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:18,240
So, she had to build her own
universe, let's say.
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CHILD'S VOICE: Now you must know,
Moskoski is not on Earth.
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It is on a little planet called
Starvinski.
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Dragons Of Moskoski,
chapter one.
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CHIRPING AND CHATTERING
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EERIE MINIMAL MUSIC
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Horiptus is found on the north-west
coast of Java.
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Feeds on millet oil seed.
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INSECTS BUZZ
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Her father was a very, very wealthy
owner of a textile mill,
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called Harold Carrington,
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00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,880
and her mother was the daughter of
an Irish doctor.
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00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:09,400
When Leonora was three, they rented
this really stupendous house,
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called Crookhey Hall.
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CAWING
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It was a kind of dark,
rather exciting place.
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EERIE BIRDCALLS
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There was a lake. We had a myth that
it was bottomless,
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and we weren't allowed
to go there alone.
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DOG BARKS
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We did think that there was a ghost
in the tower.
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EERIE WAILING
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Her brothers went to boarding school
when they were quite young.
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Leonora stayed at home until she was
about 11 or 12.
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And, of course, she was isolated,
as she didn't have any sisters.
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She was all alone in the nursery
with the French governess.
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She was called
Mademoiselle Coutable.
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She never liked me.
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I had temper tantrums.
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CHILD'S VOICE: Seen standing
in space,
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soft blue and green feathers around
its neck.
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Peacock.
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Notes: birds, etc.
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Seen while asleep.
Seen alive on a plate.
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Like salad. Coloured green and blue.
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Wet like a frog, and wriggly.
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When she got to, I think, 11, she
did go away to school.
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She went to two Catholic
boarding schools.
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I was expelled from two schools.
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Both convents.
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I think I was mainly expelled for
not collaborating.
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I had a kind of allergy to
collaboration.
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The Mother Superior wrote a letter
saying,
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"This child is neither capable of
study or play,
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"and hence we are returning her
to you."
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00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,960
My grandmother got us some
watercolours at first,
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and apparently it was a rather
complex set of colours.
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It wasn't just a cheap set.
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My grandmother was probably the most
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instrumental person in that stage,
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because my grandfather was not very
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enthusiastic about her activities,
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and her imagery.
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But my grandmother was a Celt,
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so she thought this was perfectly
natural.
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In a way, Leonora's whole world
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started to grow when
she was very little.
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00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:06,120
All this magical Celtic world
that her mother told her about.
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00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:11,240
And she had these little paintings
of fairy tales in her room, that she
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kept all her life.
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With my grandfather, the
relationship was not as close.
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00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:26,320
He felt that he had to represent
discipline and
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00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,640
all those things.
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I felt him to be a
very powerful presence.
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00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,400
I remember how frightened
I was of him.
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00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,320
My mother, I think,
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00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,840
had a sort of love-hate relationship
with my grandfather.
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00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,120
He was strict, but he was fair.
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00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,840
I think he provided a sort of
counterbalance to my grandmother,
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00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,400
in terms of Leonora.
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00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,520
But she later came into conflict
with him.
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FOOTSTEPS
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He wanted for her
to be a certain way,
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a certain upbringing,
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a certain social behaviour
and so on.
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REMOTE LAUGHTER AND VOICES
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Certainly, after maybe 16 or 17,
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she was reluctant to be a model of
what he wanted.
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Leonora's father was in the process
of becoming very wealthy, very fast.
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They were nouveau riche,
and they knew it.
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They wanted all the trappings of
wealth.
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00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,840
In a family like that,
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everything rests on who the daughter
of the family marries.
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00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,520
In this family, there was only one
daughter,
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so who she married could have
carried that family up into the
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00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,200
higher social echelons, as it were.
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00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:23,800
Well, they wanted me to conform to
the life of horses and hunt balls
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00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,560
and being well considered by the
local gentry, I suppose.
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That sort of thing.
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So, Leonora went to live in London,
to be launched into society,
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to come out as a debutante.
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00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,920
This was one of my grandfather's
plans, to present her to the King.
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So they gussied her up and dressed
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her in these silk garments
and so on.
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I wrote.
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There are lots of stories there.
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00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:02,080
The Debutante was a book that I
wrote afterwards
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about my experiences.
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"When I was a debutante,
I often went to the zoo.
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00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,400
"The animal I got to know best was a
young hyena.
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00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,480
" 'What a bloody nuisance,'
I said to her.
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00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,840
" 'I've got to go to my ball
tonight.'
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00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,520
" 'You're lucky,' she said,
'I'd love to go.'
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00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,520
" 'Ring for your maid,
and when she comes in,
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" 'we'll pounce upon her
and tear off her face.
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00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,840
" 'I'll wear her face tonight,
instead of mine.'
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00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,320
" 'It's not practical,' I said.
'She'll probably die.'
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" 'Somebody will certainly find the
corpse, and we'll be put in prison.'
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00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:47,520
" 'I'm hungry enough to eat her,'
the hyena replied.
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00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,640
" 'And the bones?'
'As well,' she said.
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00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,880
"My mother entered, pale with rage.
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00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,280
" 'We'd just sat down at table,' she
said, 'when that thing,
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00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,120
'sitting in your place,
got up and shouted,
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00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,240
" 'So, I smell a bit strong, what?
Well, I don't eat cakes.'
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00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,120
" 'Whereupon it tore off
its face and ate it,
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00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,800
" 'and, with one great bound,
disappeared through the window.' "
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00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,760
She said it was torture.
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00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,240
That was maybe the last time Leonora
ever did as she was told.
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CRUNCHING AND CHATTER OF DINERS
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Her family have been seen as this
upper-class family,
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but they were not
an upper-class family.
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They were a family
who didn't fit in.
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I think that's key
to understanding Leonora.
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Leonora, from her earliest times,
didn't fit in.
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The thing about Harold Carrington
was that he came from a family
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where women would have known their
place.
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Men were the workers, they went out,
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women stayed at home and did as they
were told.
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He wasn't used to anybody answering
him back,
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00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,320
and the one person who did answer
him back was the person he least
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would have expected -
his only daughter.
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And I think that was a big shock for
Harold.
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00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,960
And I think that led to the very big
clash between them.
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She used to say that her father was
very stern and very severe,
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00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,040
but I think she cared very much
about her father.
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00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:02,480
She said that her father was very
narrow-minded and very difficult,
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00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,040
but she spoke more about her father
than about her mother.
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00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,880
There were no marriage proposals,
unsurprisingly.
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00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,600
And I think her parents were
probably at a bit of a loose end as
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to what to do with her next,
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and I think that she came up with
this idea of going to art school.
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I was planning of going to London to
study painting.
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I already knew that.
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For Leonora, this was the beginning
of freedom for her.
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She was at art school,
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00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,160
and she was mixing with a different
sort of person.
200
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,840
She found that she was an artist.
201
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She found that she
wanted to study art.
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And she found Surrealism,
203
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and Surrealism was something that
surprised her,
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because it was so familiar.
205
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,560
My mother gave me Herbert Read's
book on Surrealism,
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00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,360
and I had an affinity with it.
207
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,800
She opened that book,
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00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,960
and she connected with Surrealism,
and in particular
209
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,360
she connected with the pictures she
saw in there
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by an artist called Max Ernst.
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00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:46,560
Deux Enfants Sont Menacs Par Un
Rossignol.
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00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,400
Two Children Being Frightened Of...
213
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,200
Rossignol is for the nightingale,
isn't it?
214
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,680
I felt, "Ah, yes, this is familiar.
215
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,360
"I know what this is about."
216
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,920
A kind of world which would move
between worlds.
217
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,800
The world of our dreaming and
imagination.
218
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,240
It was a seismic moment
in the art world.
219
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,160
The public of Britain was just
struggling to
220
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,960
cope with the Post-Impressionists,
221
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,640
and suddenly here were all these
people who were regarded as madmen.
222
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,560
Critics recommended they should be
locked up, to protect the public.
223
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,280
My mother saw these paintings, and
224
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,600
she was really fascinated with them,
225
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,280
and she confessed to me,
"I want to be there...
226
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,240
"I want to be recognised in this
group."
227
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,320
One evening,
228
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,360
she's invited for dinner to the home
of a friend of hers from art school,
229
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:36,000
and they had invited an artist who
was in London because he had a show
230
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,960
on at the time,
and that was Max Ernst.
231
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,280
They both met, and something really
must have clicked very significantly
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00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,000
for her.
233
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,960
I knew his work and admired it.
234
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,120
I thought he was a very
extraordinary person.
235
00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:59,400
He was very intelligent.
236
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,880
He was also very attractive.
237
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,280
She said it didn't take very long
before they were lovers.
238
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,280
Her father, having heard about this
relationship,
239
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,440
and obviously incandescent at the
turn of events,
240
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,920
decided to try and get Max arrested
for the content of the show.
241
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,840
So he called someone at the
Metropolitan Police and said that he
242
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,640
thought they needed to investigate
this man, Max Ernst,
243
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,880
because his images were
pornographic.
244
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,720
Max, at that time, was married,
and this did not help things.
245
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,800
But Max's friends, I think,
246
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,440
rather liked Leonora,
247
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,880
and were kind of encouraging and
supporting of her.
248
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,480
And among those friends, of course,
were my parents,
249
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,840
Lee Miller and Roland Penrose, who
took to her right from the start.
250
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:12,080
Fortunately, Max's friend Roland
Penrose got to hear of this threat
251
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:17,400
and warned Max to go to Cornwall,
where Roland's brother had a house.
252
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,840
Max and Leonora came down,
253
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,840
and there was also
Man Ray and Ady Fidelin
254
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,600
and Eileen Agar and Joseph Bard,
and Henry Moore showed up.
255
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,920
And it was just this amazing,
256
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,080
wonderful 'Surrealism in Cornwall'
moment.
257
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,680
They basically laid low for three or
four weeks,
258
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,160
until the danger had passed.
259
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,600
Max went to Paris,
260
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,120
and Leonora went to find her
parents, to tell them that she had
261
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,280
made a decision on her future.
262
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,720
I suppose it was the culmination of
everything he'd had to put up with
263
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:05,040
from Leonora. Of all her rebellion
over so many years,
264
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,080
and now she was coming to say that
she was going off to live in Paris
265
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,480
with a married man,
a penniless artist.
266
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,280
He was absolutely furious.
267
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,520
And he said to her, "Never obscure
the threshold of my house again!"
268
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,120
And that's the last she saw him.
269
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,120
I just left.
270
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,120
I just left!
271
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,920
Paris was very exciting at that
time.
272
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,840
I was in love.
273
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,440
I was with someone who was also an
extremely interesting person.
274
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,800
I was working and seeing new places.
275
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,680
I knew it was better than being
in a convent.
276
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,120
Paris must have been a wonderful
moment for Leonora,
277
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:06,720
like emerging into the sunlight of
really what the rest of her life
278
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,400
would be about.
279
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:18,400
It was a very, very, very exciting
moment in Paris,
280
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,640
because the Surrealist movement was
at its height.
281
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,520
When I was with the Surrealists, I
didn't have to fit in to anything.
282
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,600
Well, Surrealism was much more than
just an art movement.
283
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,160
It was a way of life.
284
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,480
They were trying to live in that
world of imagination that Leonora
285
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,240
was living in since
she was a little child.
286
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,640
So I think she fit in perfectly.
287
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,800
This was a group of radicals.
288
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,760
They were against every single
institution.
289
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,480
Society, the government, the Church.
290
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,320
They wanted to break
with every rule.
291
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,440
It was anti-bourgeois.
292
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,960
It was anti the very thing that
Leonora had just herself
293
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,800
escaped from.
294
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,800
So she couldn't have been in a more
marvellous and exciting setting than
295
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,600
she found herself there in Paris.
296
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,600
Leonora was a now 20-year-old woman,
297
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,960
and because she was
the lover of Max Ernst,
298
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,560
she was kind of parachuted into the
very centre of that circle.
299
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,080
I saw a lot of the Surrealists,
including Breton.
300
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,320
He had a way of talking...
301
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,320
SHE SPEAKS FRENCH
302
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,720
He seemed pompous, but he wasn't
really pompous.
303
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,560
I'd take the mickey out of him now
and again.
304
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,760
I liked Picasso.
305
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,920
I also admired him.
306
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,760
I didn't go overboard, but I thought
that he was very talented.
307
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,440
People like Picasso
lived down the road,
308
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,320
and she said that finally
she'd discovered...
309
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,120
..kin people, kin minds,
310
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:18,000
people who thought the way she did.
311
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,600
I think being around Max showed
Leonora, in a way,
312
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,040
what was possible,
313
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,000
but of course, being a woman,
she had a lot to push against.
314
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,840
Because, although the Surrealists
were these fantastic avant-garde,
315
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,960
modern, freethinking people,
316
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,920
they still had a long way to go
before they reconstructed their
317
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,680
ideas about women.
318
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:56,240
And for many of them, women were
sort of like muses,
319
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,120
beautiful creatures that were there
to give inspiration,
320
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,880
sex and a jolly time.
321
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,640
They didn't take them seriously as
artists.
322
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,880
Well, the concept of female
323
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,160
in the group was the "femme-enfant",
324
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,600
which is cute, but derogatory.
325
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,760
And women were not really considered
to be contributors
326
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,960
in terms of art.
327
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,320
But my mother ignored all that and
scoffed, scoffed at it.
328
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,760
It was very clear that she did not
share those beliefs,
329
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,880
and she was very much a feminist.
330
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,400
Very much.
331
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,920
She refused to be a muse.
332
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,360
She refused to fit into their idea
of what she was.
333
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,320
And of course, she had plenty of
experience of refusing to fit in,
334
00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:59,920
it's what she'd done all her life.
335
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,880
She wasn't going to fit into the
Surrealists' idea of how she should
336
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,600
behave any more than she had ever
fitted into anything else.
337
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:31,040
She always had to remind people that
she was an artist,
338
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,960
and that she was a woman, and she
had her own ideas about her art,
339
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,640
and she was not a muse
340
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,440
for either Max Ernst or for
Breton or anybody else.
341
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,360
Leonora and Max were stayed in Paris
for a few months over, I think,
342
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,920
the winter of 1937-8.
343
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,920
They then went to live in the
south of France,
344
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,640
in a town called
Saint-Martin-d'Ardeche.
345
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,400
Well, Max, you see, it was almost
like a learning process,
346
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,600
because he knew all sorts of things
I'd never heard of,
347
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,480
so it was a revelation, no?
348
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,960
And it was a love affair, also.
349
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,040
I felt that we would be all right
if it went on forever.
350
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,160
She was extremely happy.
351
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,800
This is, in her own words, her
happiest time in her life.
352
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,880
She told me this,
353
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,800
and that Max had been the greatest
354
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,680
love in her life,
355
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,280
at the exclusion of anybody else.
356
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,120
They'd had this idyllic year or so
in the south of France,
357
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,520
and then the War crashed into their
world and changed everything.
358
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,080
All of a sudden, the French start
rounding up people
359
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,240
of German extraction, and putting
them in prison.
360
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,600
Max was put by the French
in a concentration camp.
361
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,600
I eventually...
362
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,360
I eventually went mad.
363
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,680
My mother was destroyed by this.
364
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,600
It was too much for her.
365
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,840
She had a breakdown, and at that
precise moment she was visited by a
366
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:07,240
friend from England who was
obviously very worried by her state,
367
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,000
and persuaded her to leave
Saint-Martin with her in her car,
368
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,600
and to go with her to Spain.
369
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,360
She found her in a terrible state.
370
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,600
She hadn't eaten in days,
371
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,640
and she was eating roots or
something like that from the garden,
372
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,480
and in a very bad emotional state.
373
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,360
They put her in a car
and took her away.
374
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,040
"No, no, no!
I have to wait for Max!"
375
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,040
"I'm sorry, I'm sorry but the
Germans are coming."
376
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,760
And they were, like, 13 miles away,
or something like that,
377
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,960
and they just got
in the car and left.
378
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,840
She was completely destroyed.
379
00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,120
So, I think it was my grandfather
that decided that it would be best
380
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,960
to put her in a mental institution.
381
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,640
Best for whom, I don't know,
but that...
382
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,200
that was a "family decision".
383
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,640
The solution that was found was that
she should be taken to a sanatorium
384
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,000
for people who had mental illness,
in the north of Spain.
385
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,600
She was tricked into going there,
basically.
386
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,240
She was told that she was going for
a day out to the seaside.
387
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,920
The doctor went with her,
she was drugged on the way there,
388
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,920
and she woke up in this place that
she, all her life,
389
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,440
called "the asylum".
390
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,440
That was the beginning of the
darkest chapter, really,
391
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,840
in her life.
392
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,200
"My first awakening to consciousness
was painful.
393
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,160
"I thought myself the victim of an
automobile accident.
394
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,280
"The place was suggestive of a
hospital,
395
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,280
"and I was being watched by a
repulsive-looking nurse
396
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,240
"who looked like an enormous bottle
of Lysol.
397
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,840
"I was in pain, and I realised that
my hands and feet
398
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,720
"were bound by leather straps.
399
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,000
"I learned later that I had entered
the place, fighting like a tigress."
400
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,280
It was the treatment she received
there that was so terrible.
401
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,720
She was treated by being given a
drug called Cardiosol,
402
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,800
which induced an epileptic fit.
403
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,640
"I don't know how long
I remained bound and naked.
404
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,480
"Several days and nights lying in my
own excrement, urine and sweat,
405
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,800
"tortured by mosquitoes whose stings
made my body hideous.
406
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,080
"A new era began with the most
terrible, blackest day of my life.
407
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,720
"How can I write this when I'm
afraid to think about it?
408
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,320
"I'm in terrible anguish,
409
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,240
"yet I cannot continue living alone
with such a memory.
410
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,800
"I know that once I've written it
down, I shall be delivered.
411
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,800
"But shall I be able to express with
mere words the horror of that day?
412
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,960
"A stranger entered my room.
413
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,600
"He carried in his hand a
physician's bag of black leather.
414
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,200
"Each of them got hold of a portion
of my body,
415
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,560
"and I saw the centre of all their
eyes were fixed upon me in a ghastly
416
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,120
"stare. Don Luis's eyes were tearing
my brain apart,
417
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,960
"and I was sinking down into a well,
very far.
418
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,520
"The bottom of that well was the
stopping of my mind for all eternity
419
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,840
"in the essence of utter anguish.
420
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,160
"With a convulsion of my vital
centre,
421
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,000
"I came up to the surface so
quickly, I had vertigo.
422
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,960
"When I came to, I was lying naked
on the floor.
423
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,880
"I went back to my bed
and tasted despair."
424
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,440
I think that experience sealed her.
425
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,120
Sealed her life,
the rest of her life, no?
426
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:40,960
And the fact that it was in some way
an order of her father, no?
427
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:48,080
So, you see there, families worked
in a very peculiar way, there, and
428
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:53,080
I don't think Leonora ever really
forgave that.
429
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,720
I came out...different.
430
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:07,760
Much more frightened.
431
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,680
What it mainly did for me,
in a conscious way,
432
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,680
was to have suddenly become aware
that I was both mortal
433
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,160
and touchable,
and I could be destroyed.
434
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,560
I didn't think so before.
435
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:38,560
She was still only in her early 20s.
436
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,640
She was really completely alone.
437
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,520
I was frightened, so frightened all
the time.
438
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,120
My family wanted me to go back to
England,
439
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,000
so it was, you know...
440
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,480
I didn't want to go back then.
441
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,720
Leonora ended up
meeting Renato Leduc.
442
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,800
Renato must have been a terribly
nice man who undoubtedly took a
443
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,480
great deal of interest in trying to
save Leonora,
444
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,120
because he realised that she was a
very special person.
445
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:30,000
He married her,
to get her a Mexican passport,
446
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,880
just simply to save her life.
447
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,000
He actually got me out of Europe,
Renato.
448
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,800
I met him in Madrid.
449
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,560
He worked in the Mexican Embassy,
450
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,520
and the whole Mexican Embassy left
to come back to Mexico.
451
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:56,360
She decided to go to Mexico, and she
didn't know a word of Spanish.
452
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,120
She had no idea how she would live,
453
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,080
and she went on this great adventure
of going to a country she had
454
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,760
never...she didn't even imagine
what it could be like.
455
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,120
Once you cross the border and you
arrive in Mexico,
456
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,080
you will feel that you are coming to
a place that's haunted.
457
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,720
Spirits, the presence of spirits.
458
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,120
Whatever spirits are.
459
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,880
It was like going to the other end
of the earth.
460
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,200
It is very extraordinary,
and very...very exotic.
461
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:49,240
Sometimes I found it marvellous,
sometimes I found it horrifying.
462
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,600
There's a lot of similarities
between the ancient Mexican
463
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,480
civilisations and
the Celtic cultures.
464
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,400
There's this concept of Surrealism
we have, of imagination, freedom,
465
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,000
magic as a way of life,
466
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,840
and I think that resonated with her
own culture.
467
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,320
Mexico became a refuge.
468
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,160
She found it painful
469
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,800
to leave Europe,
and she was always
470
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,360
nostalgic about Europe.
471
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,680
But then she made a life in Mexico.
472
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,600
But Leonora didn't know anybody,
clearly, in Mexico City,
473
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,800
and suddenly found herself
all alone there.
474
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,400
Renato seems like he was probably
quite a man's man,
475
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,480
liked going out to bars,
the cantinas,
476
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,000
and understandably,
she wasn't very happy.
477
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,080
PIANO MUSIC PLAYS
478
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:20,600
Renato was a nice man,
but he had an attitude
479
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,160
which was that it didn't matter if I
was alone, you know,
480
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,440
most days of the week,
without speaking Spanish...
481
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,920
..and not knowing anybody.
482
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,440
I think it was more than just a
marriage of convenience,
483
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,320
but it didn't have the deep roots
that a relationship needs, to go
484
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,000
through many, many years.
485
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,920
I asked Renato,
486
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,840
"Why did you separate such an
extraordinary woman?" and he said,
487
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,800
"Because she would talk to the dog
more than she did to me."
488
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,760
Leonora settled into Mexico,
489
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,880
into a Mexico where a great number
of intellectuals
490
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,200
were coming to Mexico
at the time,
491
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,800
of all nationalities and all races,
492
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,520
and Leonora undoubtedly found a
very interesting life
493
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,320
in which to live.
494
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,240
Now, did that make her happy?
495
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:23,120
God only knows.
496
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,680
She made new friends there, and they
were, crucially,
497
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,360
other people like her, who had fled
from wartime Europe and who had no
498
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,080
family, and most of those people,
499
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,760
who became her closest friends in
Mexico City,
500
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,200
would never see their families
again, any of them.
501
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,400
At one of the parties,
she met my father...
502
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,080
and the way she describes it,
she says,
503
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,160
"I decided this man would be a good
father for my children."
504
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,480
That's how she described him.
505
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,520
Nothing more, just that.
506
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:10,320
Chiki was a Hungarian photographer
507
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,280
who had fled Hungary and made
508
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,000
his way to Paris on foot after
509
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,280
witnessing from the window
of his apartment,
510
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,960
with his mother, a parade of Nazis
going by, saying...
511
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,520
you know, flourishing knives and
saying they were after Jewish blood.
512
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,360
Leonora and Chiki were both people
who'd ended up in Mexico from
513
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,840
war-torn Europe. They were both
people who'd left their families
514
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,040
behind. Chiki's family were mostly
dead.
515
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,640
They were at an exciting moment, in
a way, in their lives,
516
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:52,120
because they were there in this new
country and they were young people,
517
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:57,280
and Chiki, unlike Leonora's previous
lovers, was a younger man.
518
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,840
I think she liked Chiki, no?
At the beginning.
519
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,600
He was good-looking, and Chiki was
always a very,
520
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,440
very good man, but he was very shy.
521
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:17,360
And so they got together and married
after a little while,
522
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,480
and then my brother appeared,
and I appeared.
523
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,480
I believe motherhood was the most
amazing experience she ever had.
524
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,960
She told me once that having
children was, for her, so important,
525
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,800
because it's the only unconditional
love you can have in your life.
526
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,800
She said, "They are the only ones
that will never leave you."
527
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,560
When she was pregnant,
she was scared,
528
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,840
but she was painting like crazy.
529
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:08,280
This creative instinct came to her
at the same time of being able to
530
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:09,960
create life.
531
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:26,400
And I think that gave her a very
powerful sense.
532
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,600
I think her best work did come at
the time when she was painting with
533
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,920
the brush in one hand and the baby
in the other.
534
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,360
She probably adored her kids.
535
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,480
In fact, I would say, she did love
her kids,
536
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,400
but in Leonora's own way.
537
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,600
Certainly not in the traditional way
that a normal mother would have
538
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,000
loved her kids.
539
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,080
I think she was terrified that, if
540
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,600
she loved them the way her parents
541
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,960
loved her, they would be as unhappy
542
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,320
as she had become with her parents.
543
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:27,240
AMBIENT MUSIC PLAYS
544
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,760
She realised,
when she had Gaby and Pablo,
545
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,600
how important this new family was
546
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,880
going to be to her, because she was
547
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,560
somebody who'd left her
family behind.
548
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,520
She realised that she was going to
have a second chance at family,
549
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,600
and she was determined that that
second chance was going to go a lot
550
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,800
better than the first chance
had gone.
551
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,520
I don't think she could have loved
two children more than my brother
552
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,360
and myself.
553
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,720
I don't think that would have been
possible.
554
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,000
And my father was the same,
in a different way.
555
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,200
He was a little more realistic in
556
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,120
terms of getting us to get through
557
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,240
school without flunking and things.
558
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:41,120
He instilled a little discipline
into this marvellous world
559
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,600
that we were enjoying.
560
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,120
The boys were very near her.
561
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,800
The boys were always walking, one on
this side, one on this other side,
562
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,800
and always with her.
563
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,360
She shut herself in her studio,
564
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,440
but we used to open the door
and come in.
565
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,320
She would say, "I need to work,
so be very quiet.
566
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,640
"Here's a piece of paper. Draw."
567
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,360
And that's how I started drawing.
568
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,160
Sometimes it was dreadfully
difficult.
569
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,320
She was paralysed and desperate,
570
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,240
that no images came,
571
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,520
and it was barren,
572
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,720
and she was extremely depressed
sometimes.
573
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:38,680
But sometimes it
just flowed, like that,
574
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,080
and she was very excited, and she
wouldn't leave the studio, because
575
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,360
there were so many things coming.
576
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,240
Leonora was always very reluctant to
577
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:04,240
talk about her work, about her art.
578
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,320
She would never explain what
anything meant.
579
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,240
She just said,
"It just came that way."
580
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,680
She didn't do anything to promote
her career.
581
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,800
She was totally foreign to anything
582
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,560
resembling public relations.
583
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,680
She did the work and put it out, you
know, in public, and that was it.
584
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,560
It's difficult for me to put,
verbally.
585
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,240
I leave that to all the people who
do the writing.
586
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,920
It comes with a feeling
more than an image.
587
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,440
It's not that you actually see it.
588
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,800
There's a kind of sense that it's
quite right.
589
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,720
Let's say, that green was quite
right.
590
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:59,080
Or that green was, oh, no, no,
not quite right.
591
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,440
Then you don't stop to wonder where
that's coming from.
592
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,400
To be an artist, it was so natural
in her, no?
593
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,960
And to be famous,
she didn't like at all.
594
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,120
She didn't like journalism,
she didn't like...
595
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,960
She hated interviews.
She didn't like questions,
596
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,560
she never even answered them.
597
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:30,240
I don't think she was really that
much interested in the art market.
598
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:34,000
Of course, she wanted to sell the
paintings, because she needed money
599
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,440
to eat and to raise the kids
and to feed them,
600
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:42,520
but I don't think she was that
interested in the public recognition
601
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,160
of her work.
That was part of her life.
602
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,200
I don't think she could have
survived without painting.
603
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:13,280
She would use any kind of little
room for her painting.
604
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,440
It was not important to have a
studio, like many of the other
605
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,440
quote-unquote "great artists" had.
606
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,360
She had a little studio upstairs,
607
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:33,880
a very poor little studio with
electricity and things that were all
608
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,920
like this, you know?
Cords all the...
609
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,960
Very... Things...
You said, "My goodness!"
610
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,000
And the rain, it got in.
611
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,480
And she had a very
uncomfortable chair.
612
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,360
Everything was, sort of, very
difficult and uncomfortable,
613
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,280
and that's where she painted.
614
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,240
But it was very funny,
615
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:58,640
because you saw all these Mexican
painters, that weren't 10% as good
616
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,560
as she could be, that had all these
enormous studios,
617
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,960
horrible white studios full of
horrible paintings,
618
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:10,360
and she had this, and she was doing
all this marvellous painting, no?
619
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,000
In this little room.
620
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:19,080
I think it's in Mexico that she
found her real way, artistically
621
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,880
speaking, because that's where she
had, I think,
622
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:28,320
enough time to dedicate herself
fully to what she was.
623
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:29,840
An artist.
624
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,400
She'd kind of run and run and run
and run and run,
625
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,320
and she got to the end of the line,
really.
626
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:36,920
There was nowhere else to run to.
627
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:43,440
She could have gone back, but she
was never going to do that.
628
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,360
And there was nowhere else to go.
629
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,360
Did she want to go back to England?
630
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:08,160
Well, she was terribly
homesick and nostalgic,
631
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,920
so her relationship to England was
always sort of a
632
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,960
lost home.
633
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,800
Well, a home is a kind of illusion a
lot of us have.
634
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,160
Being settled doesn't exist, really.
635
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:48,880
I need change.
636
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:56,160
Because I get sort of suffocated by
my own atmosphere...
637
00:51:57,960 --> 00:51:59,840
or things that become too familiar.
638
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,880
She never quite
639
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,920
fitted anywhere.
640
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,640
Not England, not Mexico.
641
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:18,080
I don't think she was comfortable
anywhere, that's the truth,
642
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:22,960
and if there was one country where
my mother was very comfortable,
643
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,840
was art. Hmm?
644
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:27,760
That was her country.
645
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:02,560
Even though she may have never
accepted this, I told her myself -
646
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:08,400
"Mexico has received you
with open arms,
647
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,920
which would never have happened
in Europe.
648
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,280
Never.
649
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,360
Well, Leonora is considered one of
the greatest Mexican painters.
650
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,920
She's always been considered a
Mexican artist.
651
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:31,080
Even though she was born in England,
for us, she is our artist.
652
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:36,200
She belongs to Mexico, and she has
always been recognised here.
653
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,280
She's always had a very good name.
654
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:47,600
Leonora's work is so unique, and I
think that's a legacy that,
655
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,640
even though she was surrounded by
all these big shots of Surrealism,
656
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:57,200
she was able to look inside of her
and create something that was really
657
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,320
unique and visionary.
658
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:09,080
Being tucked away in Mexico City
certainly did not help her achieve
659
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:13,080
recognition in the way that she
could have done, should have done,
660
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,320
but Leonora certainly did not
achieve the recognition in this
661
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,360
country that she so richly deserved.
662
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,840
Leonora, as an artist, may still be
in her infancy in terms of how
663
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,240
well-known she will one day be,
664
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:31,360
and I do think that Leonora's moment
is still ahead,
665
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,400
in terms of her being really
well-known and acknowledged as an
666
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,840
artist, because so many of her
themes were ahead of their time,
667
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,640
and are probably still ahead.
668
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,160
I think she was ahead of all of us.
669
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:46,320
She was so extraordinary, so...
670
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,880
so, anyone who's ahead of you,
you always...
671
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,000
they are always there.
672
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,440
The idea of saying that, as you
can't explain or you can't
673
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,760
understand, you say things that are
674
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,240
under...under the personality of
that person, no?
675
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:05,000
And Leonora was like that.
676
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,320
She walked in another world,
she lived in another world, no?
677
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:12,680
She was a little bit like...
678
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,080
..like a genius, but also like
a monk of the Middle Ages,
679
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:23,440
or like someone that doesn't exist
any more.
680
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,040
Lots of things died when she died.
681
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,480
A lot of my journeys
were running away.
682
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,960
But in old age, I feel that I'm
beginning a journey in a way.
683
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:54,520
Death is of course inevitable.
684
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,760
Somehow I have to go with it a bit,
685
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,960
as a way of discovering
or uncovering,
686
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,440
because, really, we know nothing
about death.
687
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,360
Nothing.
688
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,360
Yes, well, her son Gaby has said
689
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:18,600
that almost her final words before
she died was, she looked at the
690
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,920
wall, and he said,
"What are you looking at?"
691
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:23,920
And she said, "At the blackbirds.
692
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,000
"The wall is filled with wonderful
blackbirds."
693
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,280
You know, which seemed...
694
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,200
a marvellous thing to see at the
very end for her.
695
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,480
Yes, we were impressed, because it's
696
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,240
like the blackbirds coming for her.
697
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:45,400
To take her to the fantastic world
she was living in already.
698
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,400
BIRDSONG
699
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,080
GENTLE MUSIC PLAYS
700
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,640
PIANO PLAYS GENTLY
91236
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