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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,440 Wonder what we'll get. 2 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,641 I'd like a nice juicy murder, lashings of blood. 3 00:01:16,641 --> 00:01:18,361 Oh, don't say that. 4 00:01:18,361 --> 00:01:21,121 I don't even like going in the butcher's. 5 00:01:21,121 --> 00:01:25,442 - D'you know how long a trial goes on? - As long as it takes, I imagine. 6 00:01:25,442 --> 00:01:29,682 No, but, I mean, do they have breaks, like if someone wanted the toilet? 7 00:01:29,682 --> 00:01:31,963 Yes, I was wondering that. 8 00:01:31,963 --> 00:01:37,123 The jury system has been going for 800 years, so I should think they would have thought of that by now. 9 00:01:37,123 --> 00:01:39,643 I should cocoa! Oh, right. 10 00:01:39,643 --> 00:01:41,084 Thank you. 11 00:01:44,124 --> 00:01:46,284 Follow me, please. 12 00:02:07,487 --> 00:02:11,327 Members of the jury, as your name is called, you will stand, 13 00:02:11,327 --> 00:02:15,408 take the book in your right hand, and read the words on the card. 14 00:02:15,408 --> 00:02:18,208 Raymond Charles Topping. 15 00:02:19,848 --> 00:02:21,889 I swear by Almighty God... 16 00:02:43,531 --> 00:02:46,332 ...I will well and truly try the several issues joined... 17 00:02:46,332 --> 00:02:48,292 Keith Ernest Gray. 18 00:02:48,292 --> 00:02:51,172 ...and a true verdict give according to the evidence. 19 00:02:54,613 --> 00:02:58,493 'I don't mind telling you, I was terrified.' 20 00:02:58,493 --> 00:03:02,133 I'd never been in a court before, or even been stopped by a policeman, 21 00:03:02,133 --> 00:03:06,174 so when the summons came, I thought, "This is it, they got me now!" 22 00:03:08,814 --> 00:03:11,815 'I was actually quite pleased to get the summons.' 23 00:03:11,815 --> 00:03:17,175 I thought it might be quite a diversion, for while I was waiting for what happened next. 24 00:03:17,175 --> 00:03:21,016 'My life was at a bit of a standstill, to be quite frank with you.' 25 00:03:21,016 --> 00:03:26,336 Members of the jury, the prisoner at the Bar, Penguin Books Limited, 26 00:03:26,336 --> 00:03:32,817 is charged with publishing an obscene article, to wit, a book entitled Lady Chatterley's Lover. 27 00:03:32,817 --> 00:03:37,018 To this indictment it has pleaded not guilty and it is your charge 28 00:03:37,018 --> 00:03:42,258 to say, having heard the evidence, whether it be guilty or not. 29 00:03:42,258 --> 00:03:49,659 If Your Lordship pleases, I appear, with my learned friend Mr Morton, to prosecute in this case. 30 00:03:49,659 --> 00:03:54,740 Members of the jury, it was learnt earlier this year that Penguin Books 31 00:03:54,740 --> 00:03:59,460 proposed to publish this book, Lady Chatterley's Lover. 32 00:03:59,460 --> 00:04:05,381 As a result of that, the company were seen by the police, and so it comes about 33 00:04:05,381 --> 00:04:10,782 that you find yourselves in the jury box to give your judgement on Lady Chatterley's Lover. 34 00:04:10,782 --> 00:04:15,662 I quote from the Obscene Publications Act of 1959. 35 00:04:15,662 --> 00:04:20,583 "A book is to be deemed to be obscene if its effect, taken as a whole, 36 00:04:20,583 --> 00:04:26,224 "is such as to tend to deprave and corrupt persons who are likely to read it." 37 00:04:26,224 --> 00:04:33,344 So, does this book, might this book, deprave and corrupt anyone who might be likely to read it? 38 00:04:33,344 --> 00:04:39,265 And my learned friend will doubtless argue that the book is not obscene, and that even if it were, 39 00:04:39,265 --> 00:04:44,186 its literary merit would warrant its publication as being for the public good. 40 00:04:44,186 --> 00:04:47,986 The prosecution will invite you to say that this book does tend 41 00:04:47,986 --> 00:04:51,627 to introduce lustful thoughts in the minds of those who read it. 42 00:04:51,627 --> 00:04:53,467 It goes further, you may think. 43 00:04:53,467 --> 00:04:57,067 It sets upon a pedestal promiscuous and adulterous intercourse. 44 00:04:57,067 --> 00:05:03,028 It commends, indeed, it even sets out to commend sensuality almost as a virtue. 45 00:05:03,028 --> 00:05:08,709 It encourages, and indeed advocates coarseness and vulgarity of thought and language. 46 00:05:08,709 --> 00:05:14,389 You may think that it must tend to deprave the minds, certainly of some, and you may think of many 47 00:05:14,389 --> 00:05:20,270 of those persons who are likely to purchase it at the price of three shillings and sixpence. 48 00:05:20,270 --> 00:05:24,111 You may think that one of the ways in which you can test the book 49 00:05:24,111 --> 00:05:27,671 is to ask yourselves, once you have read it, this question - 50 00:05:27,671 --> 00:05:32,592 would you approve of your young sons, your young daughters - 51 00:05:32,592 --> 00:05:36,912 because girls can read as well as boys - reading this book? 52 00:05:36,912 --> 00:05:42,753 Is it a book that you would even wish your wife or servants to read? 53 00:05:48,194 --> 00:05:52,674 Well, let us turn now to the book itself. 54 00:05:52,674 --> 00:05:56,515 I'd actually read the book years ago, well, glanced through it. 55 00:05:56,515 --> 00:06:01,195 Ray, my first husband, had picked a copy up in Paris. 56 00:06:01,195 --> 00:06:04,035 To tell the truth, I wasn't really interested then, 57 00:06:04,035 --> 00:06:06,916 not that interested in other people's sex lives. 58 00:06:06,916 --> 00:06:09,556 I was too involved in our own, 59 00:06:09,556 --> 00:06:13,557 Ray's and mine. Then. 60 00:06:13,557 --> 00:06:18,957 It is, if I may summarise, the story of Lady Chatterley, 61 00:06:18,957 --> 00:06:22,838 a young woman whose husband is wounded in the First World War, 62 00:06:22,838 --> 00:06:28,758 paralysed from the waist downwards so that he is unable to have any sexual intercourse. 63 00:06:28,758 --> 00:06:35,559 It describes how this woman, deprived of sex from her husband, satisfies her sexual desires - 64 00:06:35,559 --> 00:06:40,080 a sex-starved girl - how she satisfies that starvation 65 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:45,400 with a particularly sensual man who happens to be her husband's gamekeeper. 66 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:51,841 There are, I think, 13 episodes of sexual intercourse described in the greatest detail. 67 00:06:51,841 --> 00:06:54,122 The curtains are never drawn. 68 00:06:54,122 --> 00:06:58,202 One follows them not only into the bedroom but into bed. 69 00:06:58,202 --> 00:07:01,202 But that is not strictly accurate, members of the jury, 70 00:07:01,202 --> 00:07:03,323 because one starts in my lady's boudoir, 71 00:07:03,323 --> 00:07:06,883 then one goes to the floor of a hut in the forest, 72 00:07:06,883 --> 00:07:12,044 then we see them again in the forest, in the undergrowth, in the pouring rain, 73 00:07:12,044 --> 00:07:16,564 both of them stark naked and dripping with raindrops. 74 00:07:16,564 --> 00:07:22,525 Then in the keeper's cottage, first in the evening on the hearthrug, then in the morning in bed. 75 00:07:22,525 --> 00:07:26,365 And then we move to Bloomsbury and we have it all over again 76 00:07:26,365 --> 00:07:29,446 in the attic of a Bloomsbury boarding house! 77 00:07:29,446 --> 00:07:34,166 When you read these passages you may well think that sex is dragged in 78 00:07:34,166 --> 00:07:39,167 at every conceivable opportunity and you may think that the story is little more than padding. 79 00:07:39,167 --> 00:07:44,288 Hmm. Now we come to the language. 80 00:07:44,288 --> 00:07:48,608 The book abounds in bawdy conversation. 81 00:07:48,608 --> 00:07:51,608 These matters are not normally voiced in this court, 82 00:07:51,608 --> 00:07:57,089 but when it forms the whole subject matter of the prosecution, then we cannot avoid voicing them. 83 00:07:57,089 --> 00:08:03,570 The word fuck or fucking occurs no less than 30 times. 84 00:08:03,570 --> 00:08:06,210 Cunt...14 times. 85 00:08:06,210 --> 00:08:11,131 Balls...13 times. 86 00:08:11,131 --> 00:08:14,531 Shit and arse, six times apiece. 87 00:08:14,531 --> 00:08:16,531 Cock, four times. 88 00:08:16,531 --> 00:08:21,132 Piss, three times. And...so on. 89 00:08:21,132 --> 00:08:25,933 Lady Chatterley and the gamekeeper are, you may think, little more than bodies, 90 00:08:25,933 --> 00:08:29,813 bodies which continuously have sexual intercourse with each other. 91 00:08:29,813 --> 00:08:32,373 You will see, for example, on page seven... 92 00:08:32,373 --> 00:08:37,454 My Lord, I object! The Act says the book must be judged as a whole. 93 00:08:37,454 --> 00:08:42,775 To consider particular passages without having read the whole book would be to prejudge the issue. 94 00:08:42,775 --> 00:08:49,255 It was not my intention to prejudice or inflame the jury's minds before they read the book. 95 00:08:49,255 --> 00:08:51,856 No-one is suggesting that, Mr Griffith-Jones. 96 00:08:51,856 --> 00:08:58,857 But the book is charged as a whole, and perhaps the better course is for the jury to read the book first, 97 00:08:58,857 --> 00:09:04,297 before hearing evidence about the whole book or any particular passages in it. 98 00:09:04,297 --> 00:09:06,418 As Your Lordship pleases. 99 00:09:06,418 --> 00:09:12,538 Well, the question now, then, is the reading of the book, is it not? 100 00:09:12,538 --> 00:09:14,298 How shall that be done? 101 00:09:14,298 --> 00:09:17,299 Perhaps the jury should take the book home, my Lord? 102 00:09:17,299 --> 00:09:19,139 I think not. 103 00:09:19,139 --> 00:09:21,099 I think they should read it here. 104 00:09:21,099 --> 00:09:27,700 I am sorry, members of the jury, I don't want to condemn you to any kind of discomfort, 105 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:31,821 but if you were to take the book home, there might be distractions. 106 00:09:31,821 --> 00:09:36,821 You should read the book through in the jury room, taking as much time as you need. 107 00:09:36,821 --> 00:09:38,821 I suppose it might take a day or two. 108 00:09:38,821 --> 00:09:42,542 Then we will all come back here and proceed with the case. 109 00:09:42,542 --> 00:09:44,502 All rise! 110 00:09:48,023 --> 00:09:51,583 Help yourselves to copies and make yourselves comfortable. 111 00:09:51,583 --> 00:09:54,423 The lunch break will be at 12.30. 112 00:09:54,423 --> 00:09:57,064 - This is a bit of all right. - Beats working, eh? 113 00:09:57,064 --> 00:10:01,464 There's to be no discussion until after you've completed your reading. 114 00:10:11,985 --> 00:10:17,946 "Ours is essentially a tragic age, so we refuse to take it tragically. 115 00:10:17,946 --> 00:10:20,066 "The cataclysm has happened..." 116 00:10:20,066 --> 00:10:22,787 "This was Constance Chatterley's position. 117 00:10:22,787 --> 00:10:25,187 "The war had brought the roof down over her head. 118 00:10:25,187 --> 00:10:28,067 "She had married Clifford Chatterley when he was home on leave. 119 00:10:28,067 --> 00:10:30,788 "They had a month's honeymoon, then he went back to Flanders 120 00:10:30,788 --> 00:10:34,948 "to be shipped over to England again, six months later, more or less in bits..." 121 00:10:34,948 --> 00:10:36,788 "He was not really downcast. 122 00:10:36,788 --> 00:10:41,069 "He had a bath-chair with a small motor attachment..." 123 00:10:41,069 --> 00:10:43,669 "I'm sorry we can't have a son, she said..." 124 00:10:43,669 --> 00:10:47,310 "It would be almost a good thing if you had a child by another man..." 125 00:10:47,310 --> 00:10:49,670 "This is the new gamekeeper, Mellors..." 126 00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:54,831 "The keeper's cottage looked uninhabited, it was so silent and alone. 127 00:10:54,831 --> 00:10:58,831 "She went round the side of the house, turned the corner and stopped. 128 00:10:58,831 --> 00:11:06,112 "In the little yard, two paces beyond her, the man was washing himself, utterly unaware. 129 00:11:06,112 --> 00:11:12,313 "He was naked to the hips, his velveteen breeches slipping down over his slender loins..." 130 00:11:27,875 --> 00:11:32,075 I didn't know where to look, when he was saying those words. 131 00:11:32,075 --> 00:11:35,756 Some people thought it was funny. I did laugh, I couldn't help it. 132 00:11:35,756 --> 00:11:40,556 It was just, I dunno, I'd never heard anyone say words like that in a posh voice. 133 00:11:40,556 --> 00:11:46,037 It was the absurdity of it. Yeah. Exactly. The place for words like that is the gutter, not in court. 134 00:11:46,037 --> 00:11:50,757 I don't see why he felt he had to say them out loud, we all know what they all are, after all. 135 00:11:50,757 --> 00:11:52,558 I call it rank bad taste. 136 00:11:52,558 --> 00:11:55,558 I suppose he felt he was doing his duty, like. 137 00:11:55,558 --> 00:12:00,479 I think he was enjoying himself no end. Like a little boy saying, "Pee-po belly bum drawers"! 138 00:12:05,359 --> 00:12:07,759 So what do we all think of the book so far? 139 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:10,960 We're not supposed to discuss it until we've finished it. 140 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,040 Come on, of course they know we're going to talk about it. 141 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,721 Well, she certainly puts herself about a bit, don't she? Lady C. 142 00:12:17,721 --> 00:12:23,881 Two Germans, that Michaels bloke, and we haven't even got to the gamekeeper yet. 143 00:12:23,881 --> 00:12:27,722 - Is that what the aristocracy's like? - In my experience, yes. 144 00:12:27,722 --> 00:12:31,482 -I suppose they've got the leisure time for it. - Exactly. 145 00:12:31,482 --> 00:12:33,603 What do you think of it? 146 00:12:33,603 --> 00:12:36,603 I'm rather enjoying it, so far. 147 00:12:36,603 --> 00:12:40,163 Although he does make an awful song and dance about it. 148 00:12:40,163 --> 00:12:42,364 It's only sex, after all, isn't it? 149 00:12:50,805 --> 00:12:53,085 "One evening she escaped after tea. 150 00:12:53,085 --> 00:12:57,325 "It was late, and she fled across the park like one who fears to be called back. 151 00:12:57,325 --> 00:13:03,246 " 'I'd love to see the chicks!' she said, panting, glancing shyly at the keeper, almost unaware of him." 152 00:13:03,246 --> 00:13:06,247 "The man standing above her laughed, and crouched down, 153 00:13:06,247 --> 00:13:09,687 "and put his hand with quiet confidence slowly into the coop. 154 00:13:09,687 --> 00:13:13,767 "And slowly, softly, with sure, gentle fingers, 155 00:13:13,767 --> 00:13:20,248 "he felt among the bird's feathers and drew out a faintly-peeping chick in his closed hand..." 156 00:13:20,248 --> 00:13:22,929 "She took the drab little thing between her hands, 157 00:13:22,929 --> 00:13:26,409 "and there it stood, on its impossible little stalks of legs, 158 00:13:26,409 --> 00:13:30,649 "its atom of life trembling through its almost weightless feet into Connie's hands..." 159 00:13:30,649 --> 00:13:33,050 "Suddenly he saw a tear fall on her wrist. 160 00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:36,690 "Her face was averted, and she was crying blindly. 161 00:13:36,690 --> 00:13:42,211 "His heart melted suddenly, and he put out his hand and laid his fingers on her knee. 162 00:13:42,211 --> 00:13:45,211 " 'You shouldn't cry,' he said softly. 163 00:13:45,211 --> 00:13:52,932 "He laid his hand on her shoulder, and softly, gently, it began to travel down the curve of her back, 164 00:13:52,932 --> 00:13:58,893 "blindly, with a blind stroking motion, to the curve of her loins, 165 00:13:58,893 --> 00:14:03,814 "and there his hand, softly, softly, stroked the curve of her flank, 166 00:14:03,814 --> 00:14:06,534 "in the blind instinctive caress." 167 00:14:12,295 --> 00:14:15,535 - Funny old way to spend a day. - Yeah, I'll say. 168 00:14:15,535 --> 00:14:17,375 Better than work, though. 169 00:14:17,375 --> 00:14:20,175 - I'm Helena, by the way. - Keith. 170 00:14:20,175 --> 00:14:23,216 Pleased to meet you, Keith. 171 00:14:23,216 --> 00:14:26,976 - So, what's the work you're not doing today? - Invoice clerk. 172 00:14:26,976 --> 00:14:28,496 For a wholesale grocers. 173 00:14:28,496 --> 00:14:31,177 - Don't you like it? - I hate it. 174 00:14:31,177 --> 00:14:34,657 Same thing over and over again; adding up, adding up, adding up, 175 00:14:34,657 --> 00:14:38,698 then the supervisor checks 'em all on an adding machine. It's all pointless. 176 00:14:38,698 --> 00:14:40,858 They'll replace us all with machines. 177 00:14:40,858 --> 00:14:43,578 - I can't wait. - What'll you do then? 178 00:14:43,578 --> 00:14:45,699 Dunno. 179 00:14:45,699 --> 00:14:48,259 Maybe I'll retrain as a gamekeeper! 180 00:14:48,259 --> 00:14:51,619 Well, it does sound like rather a good job. 181 00:14:51,619 --> 00:14:54,020 Are you married, Keith? 182 00:14:54,020 --> 00:14:57,780 I am, as it happens, yeah. Are you? 183 00:14:57,780 --> 00:15:02,861 Yes and no. In the process of divorcing, just waiting for my papers to come through. 184 00:15:02,861 --> 00:15:06,221 - Oh, right. - My life's in a sort of limbo at the moment... 185 00:15:06,221 --> 00:15:12,662 - No proper home. I'm living in a little flat over a shop, just round the corner actually. - Oh, yeah? 186 00:15:12,662 --> 00:15:14,422 I, er, I turn off here. 187 00:15:16,422 --> 00:15:19,063 Are you in a hurry, Keith? 188 00:15:19,063 --> 00:15:24,343 - No, not especially. - There's something I'd like to show you ... something I saw this morning. 189 00:15:24,343 --> 00:15:27,144 It's just down here. 190 00:15:27,144 --> 00:15:28,624 All right, then. 191 00:15:36,665 --> 00:15:39,185 Look. Chicks. 192 00:15:45,106 --> 00:15:47,346 Open your hands. 193 00:15:51,266 --> 00:15:53,987 - Don't you like it? - I dunno. 194 00:15:55,507 --> 00:15:59,748 - I don't wanna hurt it. - You won't hurt it. 195 00:15:59,748 --> 00:16:01,348 There. 196 00:16:03,988 --> 00:16:06,388 Look, what is this? 197 00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:13,109 - You know what it is. - Look, I'd better get going. 198 00:16:15,789 --> 00:16:18,790 I thought we might have a cup of tea. You haven't got time? 199 00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:21,310 No, I think I'd...you know, 200 00:16:21,310 --> 00:16:24,310 better get going. - OK, then. 201 00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:26,751 - See you in court tomorrow. - Yeah. 202 00:16:26,751 --> 00:16:29,271 See you tomorrow. 203 00:16:46,873 --> 00:16:49,073 So what was it like, then? 204 00:16:49,073 --> 00:16:52,154 - It was all right. - Did you get your dinner? -Yeah. 205 00:16:52,154 --> 00:16:54,914 - What was it like? - It was all right. Not bad. 206 00:16:57,234 --> 00:17:01,075 - So did you get on a case? - Yeah. - Was it a murder? 207 00:17:01,075 --> 00:17:02,795 No, nothing like that. 208 00:17:02,795 --> 00:17:05,275 What, then? 209 00:17:05,275 --> 00:17:09,796 - We're not supposed to discuss it. - Come on, you can tell me. 210 00:17:10,876 --> 00:17:14,397 It's about a book. Lady Chatterley's Lover. 211 00:17:14,397 --> 00:17:17,517 We've got to read it and decide if it should be banned. 212 00:17:17,517 --> 00:17:20,757 That's supposed to be the most disgusting book out! 213 00:17:20,757 --> 00:17:22,638 - And you're reading it! - Yeah. 214 00:17:22,638 --> 00:17:25,358 The judge won't let the case start till we've read it. 215 00:17:25,358 --> 00:17:29,038 So I've been hard at work all day, you've been reading a dirty book! 216 00:17:29,038 --> 00:17:31,319 Yeah, that's right. 217 00:17:31,319 --> 00:17:32,919 What's it like? 218 00:17:32,919 --> 00:17:35,479 It's all right. 219 00:17:35,479 --> 00:17:37,879 - I like it, as it happens. - Dirty bugger. 220 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:42,920 What? 221 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,201 - What's the matter? - I dunno. Nothing. 222 00:18:05,123 --> 00:18:06,923 You know what it is. 223 00:18:32,246 --> 00:18:34,886 "He held her fast and she felt his urgency... 224 00:18:34,886 --> 00:18:39,167 "She saw his eyes, tense and brilliant, fierce, not loving... 225 00:18:39,167 --> 00:18:40,847 "But her will had left her... 226 00:18:40,847 --> 00:18:45,168 "For a moment he was still inside her, turgid there and quivering. 227 00:18:45,168 --> 00:18:48,568 "Then as he began to move, in the sudden, helpless orgasm, 228 00:18:48,568 --> 00:18:52,248 "there awoke in her new strange thrills rippling inside her. 229 00:18:52,248 --> 00:18:56,529 "Rippling, rippling, rippling, 230 00:18:56,529 --> 00:19:02,330 "like a flapping overlapping of soft flames, soft as feathers, 231 00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:07,290 "running to points of brilliance, exquisite, exquisite, 232 00:19:07,290 --> 00:19:10,211 "and melting her all molten inside... 233 00:19:10,211 --> 00:19:13,891 "And as it subsided, he subsided too and lay utterly still, unknowing, 234 00:19:13,891 --> 00:19:16,811 "while her grip on him slowly relaxed, and she lay inert. 235 00:19:16,811 --> 00:19:20,452 "And they lay, and knew nothing, not even of each other, both lost. 236 00:19:20,452 --> 00:19:22,932 " 'It's good when it's like that,' he said. 237 00:19:22,932 --> 00:19:27,053 " 'Most folks live their whole life through and they never know it.' " 238 00:19:45,815 --> 00:19:47,255 I thought I'd missed you. 239 00:19:49,135 --> 00:19:50,815 Well, now you've caught me. 240 00:19:50,815 --> 00:19:53,576 We could have that cup of tea today if you wanted to. 241 00:19:54,896 --> 00:19:56,856 Sure you're not wanted at home? 242 00:19:56,856 --> 00:20:00,857 No, Sylvia doesn't get home from work till half-past-six. 243 00:20:03,297 --> 00:20:04,777 OK, then. 244 00:20:36,821 --> 00:20:38,301 Now what? 245 00:20:45,342 --> 00:20:48,142 'Members of the jury,' 246 00:20:48,142 --> 00:20:52,943 you have heard from my learned friend the nature of the case for the prosecution. 247 00:20:52,943 --> 00:20:56,863 He has told you in general terms what the book is about, 248 00:20:56,863 --> 00:21:04,584 he has told you that it is full of repeated descriptions of sexual intercourse, and so it is. 249 00:21:05,545 --> 00:21:10,225 He has told you it contains many four-letter words, and so it does. 250 00:21:10,225 --> 00:21:12,265 Sorry, too many things. 251 00:21:12,265 --> 00:21:17,026 You may be asking yourselves, why should any publisher want to publish such a book? 252 00:21:17,946 --> 00:21:23,067 Well, Allen Lane, Sir Allen Lane as he is now, 253 00:21:23,067 --> 00:21:25,227 founded Penguin Books 254 00:21:25,227 --> 00:21:30,748 so that ordinary people could buy all the great books in our literature 255 00:21:30,748 --> 00:21:33,828 at a reasonable cost. 256 00:21:33,828 --> 00:21:36,148 The whole of Shakespeare, 257 00:21:36,148 --> 00:21:40,589 the whole of Shaw, and now the whole of Lawrence. 258 00:21:40,589 --> 00:21:46,069 Few people will disagree that Lawrence is one of the greatest writers of this century, 259 00:21:46,069 --> 00:21:49,550 and Lady Chatterley's Lover is an essential novel 260 00:21:49,550 --> 00:21:55,071 if we are to properly understand what Lawrence had to say, 261 00:21:55,071 --> 00:21:58,591 and to properly understand Lady Chatterley's Lover, 262 00:21:58,591 --> 00:22:01,231 we must be able to read it... 263 00:22:01,231 --> 00:22:06,832 unexpurgated - to read the book Lawrence actually wrote. 264 00:22:06,832 --> 00:22:10,792 It is a book about England, 265 00:22:10,792 --> 00:22:12,473 about our society. 266 00:22:14,033 --> 00:22:18,633 Lawrence wanted to say something about our society in this book. 267 00:22:18,633 --> 00:22:23,994 He thought the ills in our society would not be cured by political action, 268 00:22:23,994 --> 00:22:30,315 that the remedy lay in the restoration of right relations between human beings, 269 00:22:30,315 --> 00:22:33,435 particularly in the union, 270 00:22:33,435 --> 00:22:36,155 the physical union, 271 00:22:36,155 --> 00:22:39,316 between man and woman. 272 00:23:00,638 --> 00:23:03,079 Are you all right, Keith? 273 00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:05,559 Not regretting it, I hope? No. 274 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:08,559 I'm just... 275 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,160 I've never done anything like this before. 276 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,241 Oh, dear. 277 00:23:18,241 --> 00:23:20,361 - Have I corrupted you? - No. 278 00:23:22,081 --> 00:23:23,601 I didn't mean that. 279 00:23:27,242 --> 00:23:29,282 I thought about doing it with you, 280 00:23:29,282 --> 00:23:31,282 yesterday and today. - Did you? 281 00:23:31,282 --> 00:23:33,482 Of course I did. Couldn't you tell? 282 00:23:33,482 --> 00:23:35,483 - I thought it was just me. - Oh, no. 283 00:23:35,483 --> 00:23:37,483 I've never met anyone like you before. 284 00:23:39,963 --> 00:23:42,283 You don't know me yet, Keith. 285 00:23:42,283 --> 00:23:44,804 Yeah, I do. 286 00:23:44,804 --> 00:23:46,684 In one way, I do. 287 00:23:48,644 --> 00:23:50,764 Yes. 288 00:23:50,764 --> 00:23:52,245 Yes, you do. 289 00:23:58,485 --> 00:24:01,446 Could I see you? 290 00:24:01,446 --> 00:24:02,966 All of you? 291 00:24:04,446 --> 00:24:06,286 Yes, of course. 292 00:24:06,286 --> 00:24:10,327 You could have before, it was just we seemed to be in rather a hurry. 293 00:24:10,327 --> 00:24:12,527 Help me. 294 00:24:28,729 --> 00:24:30,729 Now I feel shy. 295 00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:38,170 Now you. 296 00:24:48,251 --> 00:24:50,332 You're beautiful. 297 00:25:13,414 --> 00:25:16,255 - Keith? - In here! 298 00:25:16,255 --> 00:25:19,135 What you doing in there with the door locked? - Nothing. 299 00:25:19,135 --> 00:25:23,016 - Just having a wash. - Having a wash? What's that all about? 300 00:25:26,536 --> 00:25:29,416 Just felt like it. It's stuffy in that jury room. 301 00:25:29,416 --> 00:25:31,577 Stuffy, sweaty. Everyone smoking. 302 00:25:31,577 --> 00:25:34,657 - And reading that dirty book. - You feel dirty. 303 00:25:34,657 --> 00:25:37,697 - You've got very particular. - I've always been particular. 304 00:25:37,697 --> 00:25:39,458 I'm not complaining. Kiss? 305 00:25:41,018 --> 00:25:45,698 # Old Keith Gray, he's a funny 'un Got a face like a pickled onion 306 00:25:45,698 --> 00:25:48,979 # Got a nose like a squashed tomato and legs like matchsticks! # 307 00:25:48,979 --> 00:25:50,459 Oi! 308 00:25:53,099 --> 00:25:55,380 You do smell lovely and clean. 309 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:02,580 - I'm doing your favourite tonight. - Yeah? 310 00:26:04,901 --> 00:26:07,861 'I call Sir Allen Lane.' 311 00:26:07,861 --> 00:26:13,302 Sir Allen, when you founded Penguin Books, what was the idea you had in mind? 312 00:26:13,302 --> 00:26:18,462 My idea was to produce a book which would sell for the price of ten cigarettes, 313 00:26:18,462 --> 00:26:22,143 For people like myself, who left school at 16 or earlier, 314 00:26:22,143 --> 00:26:25,983 my idea was it would be another form of education. 315 00:26:25,983 --> 00:26:28,384 And what about this particular book? 316 00:26:28,384 --> 00:26:31,384 We wanted to round off our DH Lawrence collection. 317 00:26:31,384 --> 00:26:34,344 Very important writer, very important book. 318 00:26:34,344 --> 00:26:36,185 I felt it had to be done. 319 00:26:36,185 --> 00:26:39,065 Did you consider publishing an expurgated version? 320 00:26:39,065 --> 00:26:42,105 No. All our books are published as the author wrote them. 321 00:26:42,105 --> 00:26:45,906 I wouldn't consider doing it any other way. Thank you, Sir Allen. 322 00:26:49,826 --> 00:26:53,907 Sir Allen, I have read a newspaper report, in the Manchester Guardian, 323 00:26:53,907 --> 00:26:58,227 in which you expressed an opinion that Lady Chatterley's Lover is no great novel. 324 00:26:58,227 --> 00:26:59,987 Was that your view? 325 00:26:59,987 --> 00:27:04,228 No, it was not. As I said, I think it is a very important novel. 326 00:27:04,228 --> 00:27:07,668 And you don't recall ever expressing any other view? 327 00:27:07,668 --> 00:27:09,269 No, I do not. 328 00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:12,789 I do remember saying I might go to prison for publishing it, 329 00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:16,709 and I am prepared to go to prison if the case goes against us, 330 00:27:16,709 --> 00:27:20,190 because I am sure it is quite right to publish it. 331 00:27:20,190 --> 00:27:21,870 No further questions. 332 00:27:24,750 --> 00:27:27,751 My Lord, I want to make clear that calling witnesses 333 00:27:27,751 --> 00:27:34,072 to the literary merit of this book is not in any sense an admission that the book is obscene. 334 00:27:34,072 --> 00:27:36,192 That is understood. 335 00:27:36,192 --> 00:27:38,232 I call Mr Graham Hough. 336 00:27:45,073 --> 00:27:49,753 You are lecturer in English and Fellow of Christ's College, Cambridge? 337 00:27:49,753 --> 00:27:53,674 And you are the author of The Dark Sun, a study of DH Lawrence? 338 00:27:53,674 --> 00:27:58,274 - That's right. - Will you tell us something of Lawrence's place in English literature? 339 00:27:58,274 --> 00:28:02,755 He's the most important novelist of this century and one of the greatest novelists of any century. 340 00:28:02,755 --> 00:28:06,595 I don't think that's disputed. And where would you place this book? 341 00:28:06,595 --> 00:28:10,516 I don't think it's the best of his novels, nor the least good, either. 342 00:28:10,516 --> 00:28:14,356 It has been said by my learned friend that, "Sex is dragged in 343 00:28:14,356 --> 00:28:17,997 "at every opportunity, and that the plot is little more than padding." 344 00:28:17,997 --> 00:28:21,837 If that were true, would it be a serious criticism of the book? 345 00:28:21,837 --> 00:28:25,398 If it were true, it would be, but in my view it's utterly false. 346 00:28:25,398 --> 00:28:30,798 The sexual passages may be the heart of the book, but they only occupy some 30 pages in a book of 300. 347 00:28:30,798 --> 00:28:34,399 The book is about much more than a series of sexual acts. 348 00:28:34,399 --> 00:28:36,359 What about the four-letter words? 349 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:41,680 In Lawrence's view there is no proper language to speak of sexual matters. He is trying to redeem 350 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,720 the traditional words, now considered obscene, and to use them in an entirely serious context. 351 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:52,481 - I don't think he is successful, but that's what Lawrence was trying to do. - Thank you. 352 00:28:52,481 --> 00:28:57,762 You have told us, Mr Hough, that this is not Lawrence's best book. 353 00:28:57,762 --> 00:29:02,042 Do you know of the writer Katherine Anne Porter? 354 00:29:02,042 --> 00:29:05,083 She's a distinguished American short-story writer. 355 00:29:05,083 --> 00:29:09,723 Just so. This is what she wrote about Lady Chatterley's Lover. 356 00:29:09,723 --> 00:29:15,324 "A dreary, sad performance, with some passages of unintentional hilarious low comedy, 357 00:29:15,324 --> 00:29:21,805 "one scene at least simply beyond belief in a book written with such inflamed apostolic solemnity." 358 00:29:21,805 --> 00:29:26,085 - What do you think of that judgement? - Obviously, I disagree with it. 359 00:29:26,085 --> 00:29:30,566 She goes on to say, "This is the fevered daydream of a dying man, 360 00:29:30,566 --> 00:29:36,486 "sitting under his umbrella pines in Italy, indulging his sexual fantasies." 361 00:29:36,486 --> 00:29:41,487 Might this not be, in fact, the fevered daydream of a dying man? 362 00:29:41,487 --> 00:29:45,727 Lawrence wasn't dying when he wrote this book. He died some two years later. 363 00:29:45,727 --> 00:29:48,008 He was ill when he wrote the book. 364 00:29:48,008 --> 00:29:49,968 Thank you. 365 00:29:49,968 --> 00:29:54,568 Now, would you agree that a good book by a good writer, 366 00:29:54,568 --> 00:29:58,169 generally speaking, should not repeat things again and again? 367 00:29:58,169 --> 00:30:00,169 It's a tiresome habit, is it not? 368 00:30:00,169 --> 00:30:05,490 Not necessarily. Repetition can be used to great literary and emotional effect. 369 00:30:05,490 --> 00:30:07,690 There is a great deal of it in the Bible. 370 00:30:07,690 --> 00:30:12,011 - I am talking about this book at the moment. Have you a copy of it? - Yes. 371 00:30:12,011 --> 00:30:15,891 Could you look at page 177? 372 00:30:15,891 --> 00:30:19,051 I will read it to you, if the court will forgive 373 00:30:19,051 --> 00:30:22,692 my miserable attempt to pronounce the local dialect. 374 00:30:22,692 --> 00:30:26,172 " 'Th'art good cunt, though, aren't ter? 375 00:30:26,172 --> 00:30:31,013 " 'Best bit o' cunt left on earth. When ter likes! When tha'rt willin!' 376 00:30:31,413 --> 00:30:33,413 " 'What is cunt?' she said. 377 00:30:33,413 --> 00:30:36,174 " 'An' doesn't ter know? Cunt!' " 378 00:30:36,174 --> 00:30:39,094 I need not go on reading. Just glance down the page. 379 00:30:39,094 --> 00:30:45,895 Cunt appears, fuck appears, cunt appears, fuck appears, all in the space of about 12 lines. 380 00:30:45,895 --> 00:30:50,335 Is that a realistic conversation, even between the gamekeeper and the baronet's wife? 381 00:30:50,335 --> 00:30:52,456 Is this a good piece of writing? 382 00:30:52,456 --> 00:30:55,936 I don't think it's successful, but I can see what he's trying to do. 383 00:30:55,936 --> 00:30:59,736 I am not asking you what he is trying to do! Is it a good piece of writing? 384 00:30:59,736 --> 00:31:02,497 Er, well, I think it's a failure. 385 00:31:02,497 --> 00:31:05,977 You agree with me in this, that in this book of such high merit, 386 00:31:05,977 --> 00:31:09,458 there is at least one passage of very low merit? 387 00:31:09,458 --> 00:31:11,538 - Yes... - Thank you, Mr Hough. 388 00:31:13,938 --> 00:31:16,978 Well, he made mincemeat out of him. 389 00:31:16,978 --> 00:31:19,779 Mr Hough did seem to be on the defensive, rather. 390 00:31:19,779 --> 00:31:22,419 He left him in tatters, no contest. 391 00:31:22,419 --> 00:31:25,099 I think he should have stood up for that passage. 392 00:31:25,099 --> 00:31:27,100 It's a playful sort of conversation, 393 00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:29,700 between two lovers who know each other very well? 394 00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:35,061 He's teasing her, making a thing about the class difference, and she's playing up to it. 395 00:31:35,061 --> 00:31:42,862 When she says, "What is...?" You know - she's playing a game. Of course she knows what it is, really. 396 00:31:42,862 --> 00:31:46,462 - But a lady would never say that word. - I think she might. 397 00:31:46,462 --> 00:31:50,062 It's the middle classes that are prudish about four-letter words. 398 00:31:50,062 --> 00:31:54,823 - The aristocracy use them just as freely as the lower classes. - There you are. 399 00:31:54,823 --> 00:31:58,143 Well, I don't like having my nose rubbed in it. 400 00:31:59,704 --> 00:32:02,224 What a curious thing to say. 401 00:32:02,224 --> 00:32:04,184 It's only a book, after all. 402 00:32:04,184 --> 00:32:06,184 Books can't harm you, can they? 403 00:32:06,184 --> 00:32:08,505 I think that's what we're here to decide. 404 00:32:08,505 --> 00:32:10,545 About this particular book, I mean. 405 00:32:10,545 --> 00:32:13,785 Yes, I suppose we are. 406 00:32:13,785 --> 00:32:19,066 Miss Gardner, you are Reader in Renaissance Literature at Oxford University. 407 00:32:19,066 --> 00:32:21,066 What do you think of DH Lawrence? 408 00:32:21,066 --> 00:32:23,787 He is one of the greatest writers of the 20th century. 409 00:32:23,787 --> 00:32:27,667 You are not, I think, an admirer of this particular book? 410 00:32:27,667 --> 00:32:29,627 I think it's a remarkable book. 411 00:32:29,627 --> 00:32:31,828 I don't think it's a wholly successful novel, 412 00:32:31,828 --> 00:32:36,388 although I think certain passages are amongst the greatest things that he ever wrote. 413 00:32:36,388 --> 00:32:43,829 It has been said in court that the four-letter words form the whole subject matter for the prosecution, 414 00:32:43,829 --> 00:32:48,430 and that the words fuck or fucking occur not less than 30 times. 415 00:32:48,430 --> 00:32:56,110 Now, what, in your view, is the relation of the four-letter words in this book to its literary merit? 416 00:32:56,110 --> 00:33:01,191 I don't think any words are disgusting or obscene in themselves. 417 00:33:01,191 --> 00:33:06,912 It depends on the context, and I would say that by the end of the book Lawrence goes very far 418 00:33:06,912 --> 00:33:12,752 to redeem this word and make one feel that it is the only word that the character could use. 419 00:33:12,752 --> 00:33:18,833 By the time one gets to the last page, one feels that this word has taken on a great depth of meaning. 420 00:33:18,833 --> 00:33:23,674 You said that certain passages are some of the greatest things that Lawrence wrote. 421 00:33:23,674 --> 00:33:25,954 Which passages did you have in mind? 422 00:33:25,954 --> 00:33:28,674 Some of the passages which describe the sexual act 423 00:33:28,674 --> 00:33:36,075 and some of the passages in which the characters talk about sexual relations between men and women. 424 00:33:36,075 --> 00:33:38,356 Including four-letter words? 425 00:33:38,356 --> 00:33:46,117 Yes. I think Lawrence succeeds, far beyond expectation, in communicating an experience of great importance 426 00:33:46,117 --> 00:33:53,157 and great value, which very few other writers have really attempted with such courage and devotion. 427 00:33:53,157 --> 00:33:55,158 Thank you. 428 00:33:55,758 --> 00:33:58,278 Mr Griffith-Jones? 429 00:34:08,359 --> 00:34:09,799 No questions, Your Honour. 430 00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:17,120 So...she liked the dirty bits best! 431 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,081 Miss Helen Gardner, eh? Wonder what she knows about it! 432 00:34:21,081 --> 00:34:26,441 - Must be more to her than meets the eye! - Your friend Mr Griffith-Jones was rendered speechless. 433 00:34:26,441 --> 00:34:30,402 Well, I'm not surprised, old bird like that sticking up for the dirty bits. 434 00:34:30,402 --> 00:34:32,442 They're not dirty bits. 435 00:34:32,442 --> 00:34:35,482 Oh, I beg your pardon. What would you call them, then? 436 00:34:35,482 --> 00:34:37,283 I can't remember how she put it. 437 00:34:37,283 --> 00:34:42,723 She said those passages communicate an experience of great importance, 438 00:34:42,723 --> 00:34:45,484 and very few writers have even attempted it. 439 00:34:45,484 --> 00:34:48,004 And what's the point of that? 440 00:34:48,004 --> 00:34:51,084 We all know...what it's like. 441 00:34:51,084 --> 00:34:56,325 What's the point in going on about it, except to get people feeling fruity. Excuse me. 442 00:34:56,325 --> 00:34:59,005 I call 'em dirty bits cos that's what they are. 443 00:34:59,005 --> 00:35:01,966 - Sex doesn't have to be dirty. - Oh, pardon me, Vicar! 444 00:35:01,966 --> 00:35:06,046 - That's the whole thing what he's on about in the book. - I stand corrected! 445 00:35:08,526 --> 00:35:11,127 D'you fancy a breath of fresh air? 446 00:35:12,327 --> 00:35:13,767 All right. 447 00:35:25,048 --> 00:35:26,489 Well. 448 00:35:30,809 --> 00:35:32,689 Horrible man. 449 00:35:32,689 --> 00:35:35,370 I liked it, when you told him off. 450 00:35:35,370 --> 00:35:38,050 I didn't have the words to do it properly. 451 00:35:38,050 --> 00:35:40,290 I felt like smacking him one on the nose. 452 00:35:40,290 --> 00:35:42,611 I think people knew what you meant. 453 00:35:42,611 --> 00:35:44,851 She was good, that woman. 454 00:35:44,851 --> 00:35:47,691 - Miss Helen Gardner. - It was brave of her. 455 00:35:47,691 --> 00:35:52,172 Of course people are going to say, "What does she know about it, an old spinster like that?" 456 00:35:52,172 --> 00:35:54,012 Yeah. I thought that too. 457 00:35:54,012 --> 00:35:56,452 I liked what you said. 458 00:35:58,132 --> 00:36:02,133 - Were you thinking about you and me? - Yeah. 459 00:36:04,053 --> 00:36:05,973 And them in the book. 460 00:36:10,174 --> 00:36:15,015 The first time me and you talked, and you said, "It's only just sex, isn't it?" 461 00:36:15,015 --> 00:36:17,175 I thought that sounded so sophisticated. 462 00:36:17,175 --> 00:36:18,695 I was just trying to be smart. 463 00:36:18,695 --> 00:36:22,255 Cos it's never only sex, though, is it? I mean, 464 00:36:22,255 --> 00:36:25,256 it's not really something you can say "it's only" about. 465 00:36:25,256 --> 00:36:27,376 There's always more to it than that. 466 00:36:29,416 --> 00:36:32,377 It shakes you up. 467 00:36:32,377 --> 00:36:36,937 Turns you inside out...sometimes. 468 00:36:38,697 --> 00:36:40,978 Yes. 469 00:36:58,820 --> 00:37:01,340 Mrs Bennett, you're a Fellow of Girton College, 470 00:37:01,340 --> 00:37:04,340 you teach young people, you have children of your own. 471 00:37:04,340 --> 00:37:08,381 What view do you think this book puts forward about marriage? 472 00:37:08,381 --> 00:37:12,461 That it should be a complete relationship, including the physical. 473 00:37:12,461 --> 00:37:15,662 And that one party in the marriage can go off and have affairs? 474 00:37:15,662 --> 00:37:20,422 Lawrence believed that if it was a complete sham, then the marriage vows could be broken. 475 00:37:20,422 --> 00:37:22,423 Oh, I see. 476 00:37:22,423 --> 00:37:27,343 But in fact he shows the woman breaking her marriage vows without any compunction at all, 477 00:37:27,343 --> 00:37:29,344 without even telling her husband. 478 00:37:29,344 --> 00:37:33,144 And isn't that indeed what Lawrence himself did? 479 00:37:33,144 --> 00:37:37,024 - He ran off with his friend's wife, didn't he? - Yes, he did, but... 480 00:37:37,024 --> 00:37:40,505 And it's just this type of behaviour that's depicted in this book? 481 00:37:40,505 --> 00:37:44,105 A woman is shown... A man running off with another man's wife! 482 00:37:44,105 --> 00:37:47,026 The whole book is about that subject, is it not? Adultery! 483 00:37:47,026 --> 00:37:52,106 Infidelity! Without a hint that there might be something wrong in the act of adultery. 484 00:37:52,106 --> 00:37:57,427 Without a hint that there might be something dishonest, something cruel about infidelity. 485 00:37:57,427 --> 00:37:59,507 - If you put it like that... - Thank you. 486 00:38:00,387 --> 00:38:07,668 Mrs Bennett, it is clear from the book that the husband told her to go and have a child by another man. 487 00:38:07,668 --> 00:38:09,668 Yes. 488 00:38:09,668 --> 00:38:14,589 And I would like to add, respecting Lawrence's own conduct, 489 00:38:14,589 --> 00:38:18,069 that his own marriage lasted the whole of his life. 490 00:38:31,831 --> 00:38:33,511 What's the matter? 491 00:38:33,511 --> 00:38:36,432 - Nothing. - I thought you liked rissoles. 492 00:38:36,432 --> 00:38:39,792 I do like rissoles. I was just thinking. 493 00:38:39,792 --> 00:38:41,872 - Thinking what? Nah... - No, go on. 494 00:38:41,872 --> 00:38:44,993 I like to know what thoughts are going on in the great brain. 495 00:38:44,993 --> 00:38:46,713 I haven't got a great brain. 496 00:38:46,713 --> 00:38:49,753 Sometimes I think I haven't got a brain at all. 497 00:38:49,753 --> 00:38:52,554 Well, that proves it, doesn't it, thinking that? 498 00:38:52,554 --> 00:38:54,754 That's a deep thought. 499 00:38:54,754 --> 00:38:59,914 I don't think thoughts like that. I just think thoughts like, "What are we going to have for supper?" 500 00:38:59,914 --> 00:39:05,555 - What were you thinking about? - I was thinking...you know, DH Lawrence? 501 00:39:05,555 --> 00:39:07,595 He ran off with his friend's wife. 502 00:39:07,595 --> 00:39:10,036 I'm not surprised, what I've heard about him. 503 00:39:10,036 --> 00:39:12,876 They got married, and they stayed married till he died. 504 00:39:12,876 --> 00:39:14,716 I'm glad to hear it. 505 00:39:19,997 --> 00:39:22,917 'Call the Bishop of Woolwich.' 506 00:39:22,917 --> 00:39:29,878 Bishop, what, if any, would you say, are the moral or ethical values of this book? 507 00:39:29,878 --> 00:39:32,518 Lawrence didn't have a Christian view of sex, 508 00:39:32,518 --> 00:39:36,919 and the sexual relationship depicted in the book is not one that I would regard as ideal, 509 00:39:36,919 --> 00:39:43,200 but what I think Lawrence is trying to do is to portray the sex act as something essentially sacred. 510 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,280 Archbishop William Temple once... 511 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,280 Just a moment, Bishop, I just want to get this right. 512 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,281 He was trying to portray the sex relation...? 513 00:39:52,281 --> 00:39:57,601 - As something essentially sacred. - Yes, I thought that was it. 514 00:39:59,202 --> 00:40:03,642 Go on. I was about to quote Archbishop William Temple. 515 00:40:03,642 --> 00:40:07,283 He once said that Christians didn't make jokes about sex 516 00:40:07,283 --> 00:40:11,243 for the same reason as they didn't make jokes about Holy Communion - 517 00:40:11,243 --> 00:40:14,884 not that it is sordid, but because it is sacred. 518 00:40:14,884 --> 00:40:17,484 And I think that is how Lawrence saw it. 519 00:40:17,484 --> 00:40:19,444 I see. 520 00:40:19,444 --> 00:40:26,845 It has been suggested that Lawrence places upon a pedestal promiscuous and adulterous intercourse. 521 00:40:26,845 --> 00:40:29,045 That seems a distorted way of looking at it. 522 00:40:29,045 --> 00:40:35,206 If the jury read the last two pages, for example, there is a most moving advocacy of chastity, 523 00:40:35,206 --> 00:40:41,047 and I think the effect of the book as a whole is against, rather than for, promiscuity. 524 00:40:43,607 --> 00:40:50,768 Bishop, are you asking the jury to accept that this book is a valuable work on ethics? 525 00:40:50,768 --> 00:40:57,609 It doesn't set out to be a work on ethics, but it does have ethical values. 526 00:40:57,609 --> 00:41:01,609 Is it, in your view, a book which Christians ought to read? 527 00:41:01,609 --> 00:41:03,369 Yes, I think it is. 528 00:41:10,170 --> 00:41:11,530 No further questions. 529 00:41:17,531 --> 00:41:20,932 Well, I don't call him much of a bishop. 530 00:41:20,932 --> 00:41:23,252 Never heard anything like it in my life. 531 00:41:23,252 --> 00:41:28,252 The man's obviously some cranky fellow-travelling toady to the intelligentsia. 532 00:41:28,252 --> 00:41:30,453 I don't know where they found him. 533 00:41:30,453 --> 00:41:34,733 There must be at least two dozen bishops who wouldn't give that book house-room. 534 00:41:34,733 --> 00:41:39,414 I don't mind telling you, I'm getting sick of it, this parade of know-alls who, 535 00:41:39,414 --> 00:41:45,414 one after another tie themselves in knots trying to tell us that what is obviously a dirty book 536 00:41:45,414 --> 00:41:48,695 is something every boy and girl should read. 537 00:42:01,256 --> 00:42:02,817 What are you thinking? 538 00:42:04,977 --> 00:42:06,417 I dunno. 539 00:42:08,817 --> 00:42:11,338 I think maybe we should stop doing this. 540 00:42:13,898 --> 00:42:15,978 You're not tired of me already? 541 00:42:15,978 --> 00:42:17,738 No. 542 00:42:17,738 --> 00:42:20,379 Christ, no. 543 00:42:20,379 --> 00:42:23,379 But, you know - Sylvia. I don't want to hurt her. 544 00:42:23,379 --> 00:42:25,099 You don't have to. 545 00:42:25,099 --> 00:42:29,060 - What she doesn't know can't hurt her, can it? - Suppose not. 546 00:42:31,980 --> 00:42:34,540 What's she like - Sylvia? 547 00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:37,381 I've known her so long, it's hard for me to say. 548 00:42:38,341 --> 00:42:40,101 She's pretty. 549 00:42:40,101 --> 00:42:45,422 - Year younger than me. We were going out together when she was 14 and I was 15. - Childhood sweethearts. 550 00:42:45,422 --> 00:42:47,222 Yeah, if you like. 551 00:42:49,742 --> 00:42:52,383 D'you have good sex with her? 552 00:42:52,383 --> 00:42:54,383 Yeah. You know, it's all right. 553 00:42:54,383 --> 00:42:57,423 You don't have to answer me, it's none of my business. 554 00:42:57,423 --> 00:43:00,064 Yeah...it's fine, but, you know, 555 00:43:00,064 --> 00:43:04,864 I think we had our best moments a long time ago, maybe even before we did it properly. 556 00:43:04,864 --> 00:43:07,544 It was so exciting, getting to know each other, 557 00:43:07,544 --> 00:43:11,265 all that wrestling, getting to first base, second base, third base. 558 00:43:11,265 --> 00:43:13,025 She made me struggle for it, 559 00:43:13,025 --> 00:43:19,706 but it was like, I dunno, discovering hidden treasure, all bit by bit, each bit better than the last bit. 560 00:43:19,706 --> 00:43:22,746 All that went on for months, years. 561 00:43:22,746 --> 00:43:24,626 It sounds nice. 562 00:43:24,626 --> 00:43:27,627 - An old-fashioned courtship. - Yeah... 563 00:43:27,627 --> 00:43:29,667 Yeah, it was, I suppose. 564 00:43:29,667 --> 00:43:32,907 - Not like him and her in the book. - Or you and me. - No? 565 00:43:34,388 --> 00:43:37,188 What about you? What was he like, your husband? 566 00:43:37,188 --> 00:43:41,829 Ray? I suppose you'd have to call him a charming bastard. 567 00:43:42,629 --> 00:43:47,269 He was married to someone else when I met him. Couldn't resist him. 568 00:43:47,269 --> 00:43:51,830 He was very good at all that, very good at sex as well. 569 00:43:51,830 --> 00:43:55,790 Not very good at paying the bills, not very good at telling the truth. 570 00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:58,831 I had a lot of fun with him. 571 00:43:58,831 --> 00:44:01,031 Actually, I adored him. 572 00:44:01,031 --> 00:44:04,751 It took me years to realise he was a cold-hearted bastard 573 00:44:04,751 --> 00:44:08,152 who didn't really give a damn about anyone but himself. 574 00:44:08,152 --> 00:44:10,312 Thank God we never had a child. 575 00:44:10,312 --> 00:44:13,152 Did he go with other women? 576 00:44:13,152 --> 00:44:14,993 I should say so. 577 00:44:14,993 --> 00:44:17,273 Mind you, I had affairs too. 578 00:44:17,273 --> 00:44:20,913 He didn't mind, because he didn't care. 579 00:44:20,913 --> 00:44:24,754 I pretended to be happy, even to myself, I think. 580 00:44:24,754 --> 00:44:26,834 And then I stopped pretending. 581 00:44:28,234 --> 00:44:29,954 So you're not happy? 582 00:44:31,595 --> 00:44:34,395 Oh, I've got nothing to complain about. 583 00:44:34,395 --> 00:44:37,195 I'm over him now. Much better off without him. 584 00:44:37,195 --> 00:44:39,236 I don't even hate him any more. 585 00:44:44,916 --> 00:44:49,517 - Am I the first since you split up with him? - No. 586 00:44:51,677 --> 00:44:54,037 The best, though. 587 00:44:55,157 --> 00:44:59,038 We're not going to stop this, are we? Not yet, anyway? 588 00:44:59,038 --> 00:45:01,598 No. 589 00:45:01,598 --> 00:45:04,359 I don't think I could. 590 00:45:04,359 --> 00:45:06,159 Nor me. 591 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,401 Call Richard Hoggart. 592 00:45:32,482 --> 00:45:36,402 Mr Hoggart, would you tell us a little about yourself? 593 00:45:36,402 --> 00:45:39,403 I was born into the working class, in Leeds. 594 00:45:39,403 --> 00:45:43,003 I went to the local elementary school, and won a scholarship to grammar school, 595 00:45:43,003 --> 00:45:45,804 and then went on to university where I took an English degree. 596 00:45:45,804 --> 00:45:49,124 A background rather like Lawrence's own, then. 597 00:45:49,124 --> 00:45:53,124 Lawrence didn't go to university, he went to a teacher's training college. 598 00:45:53,124 --> 00:45:58,205 And perhaps there's something particular about a Nottinghamshire mining village upbringing. 599 00:45:58,205 --> 00:46:02,486 - We're not all the same, us working class lads, you know. - No, indeed. 600 00:46:02,486 --> 00:46:06,446 And you are now a Senior Lecturer in English at Leicester University, 601 00:46:06,446 --> 00:46:10,847 and you lecture on Lawrence to the young people under your care. - Yes, I do. 602 00:46:10,847 --> 00:46:15,407 This book, Lady Chatterley's Lover, has been described in Court 603 00:46:15,407 --> 00:46:20,648 as little more than vicious indulgence in sex and sensuality. 604 00:46:20,648 --> 00:46:22,728 Is that a valid description of the book? 605 00:46:22,728 --> 00:46:24,808 Not at all. It is not vicious. 606 00:46:24,808 --> 00:46:28,569 It is highly virtuous, and if anything puritanical. 607 00:46:28,569 --> 00:46:30,889 Did you say... 608 00:46:30,889 --> 00:46:33,969 virtuous and puritanical? - Yes, sir. 609 00:46:33,969 --> 00:46:36,250 I believe it's a very moral book. 610 00:46:36,250 --> 00:46:41,890 In fact, you could say that the physical, sexual side is not that important to Lawrence. 611 00:46:41,890 --> 00:46:43,571 I know that sounds paradoxical. 612 00:46:43,571 --> 00:46:48,811 What Lawrence is interested in is a relationship which is, in the deepest sense, spiritual. 613 00:46:48,811 --> 00:46:50,731 It's a kind of sacrament for him. 614 00:46:50,731 --> 00:46:55,332 So what exactly do you mean by saying that this is a moral book? 615 00:46:55,332 --> 00:47:00,373 I mean that the overwhelming impression I get, as a careful reader, 616 00:47:00,373 --> 00:47:06,853 is of the enormous reverence which must be paid by one human being to another in a physical relationship. 617 00:47:06,853 --> 00:47:11,334 These relationships are not matters in which we use each other like animals. 618 00:47:11,334 --> 00:47:14,894 This spirit seems to me to pervade the book throughout, 619 00:47:14,894 --> 00:47:19,575 and so I would call the book highly moral and not at all degrading of sex. 620 00:47:19,575 --> 00:47:23,495 And the four-letter words have been referred to. What is your view on them? 621 00:47:23,495 --> 00:47:29,496 They are part of the normal discourse of many people, and not only working class people. 622 00:47:29,496 --> 00:47:33,457 They are used very freely indeed in everyday life. 623 00:47:33,457 --> 00:47:38,337 50 yards from the court this morning I heard a man say "fuck" three times as he passed me. 624 00:47:38,337 --> 00:47:41,738 He said, "Fuck it, fuck it, fuck it!" as he went past. 625 00:47:41,738 --> 00:47:46,538 If you have worked on a building site, as I have, you will hear it over and over again. 626 00:47:46,538 --> 00:47:50,419 The word is used in contempt, of course, as a term of abuse. 627 00:47:50,419 --> 00:47:54,779 - Lawrence wanted to re-establish its proper use. - Which is? 628 00:47:54,779 --> 00:47:57,700 As the word for the sexual act. 629 00:47:57,700 --> 00:48:02,660 We have no word in English for it that isn't either a long abstraction, 630 00:48:02,660 --> 00:48:09,821 or a euphemism, and we're constantly running away from it, or dissolving into dots, in a passage like this. 631 00:48:09,821 --> 00:48:12,501 Lawrence wanted us to say, "This is what one does." 632 00:48:12,501 --> 00:48:17,702 In a simple, ordinary way, one fucks, with no sniggering or dirt. 633 00:48:17,702 --> 00:48:20,302 One fucks. 634 00:48:24,383 --> 00:48:30,543 I wonder, Mr Hoggart, do you belong to that body of people who oppose all prosecutions for obscenity? 635 00:48:30,543 --> 00:48:36,624 Not at all. But I do resent the fact that ordinary men and women should be prevented 636 00:48:36,624 --> 00:48:41,065 from reading a serious book by a great writer who has something of importance to say. 637 00:48:41,065 --> 00:48:42,745 I see. 638 00:48:42,745 --> 00:48:49,266 Now, you described this book as "highly virtuous, if not puritanical". 639 00:48:49,266 --> 00:48:53,986 - That is your genuine and considered view, is it? - Yes, it is. 640 00:48:53,986 --> 00:48:59,627 Well, perhaps I've spent my whole life under a misapprehension of the meaning of the word "puritanical". 641 00:48:59,627 --> 00:49:02,187 Can you enlighten me? 642 00:49:02,187 --> 00:49:05,548 Yes. Many people live their lives under the same misapprehension. 643 00:49:05,548 --> 00:49:07,788 This is the way that language decays. 644 00:49:07,788 --> 00:49:14,589 Today, the word has been extended to mean someone who's against anything pleasurable, particularly sex. 645 00:49:14,589 --> 00:49:19,549 Its true meaning is somebody who belongs to the tradition of British Puritanism, 646 00:49:19,549 --> 00:49:25,710 and the defining feature of that is an intense sense of responsibility for one's conscience. 647 00:49:25,710 --> 00:49:29,231 In this sense, the book is puritanical. 648 00:49:29,231 --> 00:49:31,831 I am obliged to you for that lecture. 649 00:49:31,831 --> 00:49:33,751 In fact, one could say... 650 00:49:33,751 --> 00:49:37,392 Mr Hoggart, I don't want to stop you if you have something further to say, 651 00:49:37,392 --> 00:49:43,072 but the question I want to ask you is quite a simple one to answer without another lecture. 652 00:49:43,072 --> 00:49:45,993 We are not at Leicester University at the moment. 653 00:49:45,993 --> 00:49:52,353 Now I want to see more precisely what you describe as "puritanical". 654 00:49:52,353 --> 00:49:56,554 Would you look at page 222 of the book? 655 00:49:56,554 --> 00:50:02,355 Lady Chatterley is drying her hair in front of the fire, after one of their bouts, 656 00:50:02,355 --> 00:50:05,555 when he took her, and I quote, "like an animal. 657 00:50:05,555 --> 00:50:08,595 "He stroked her tail with his hand, 658 00:50:08,595 --> 00:50:13,796 "long and subtly taking in the curves and the globefulness. 659 00:50:13,796 --> 00:50:16,636 " 'Tha's got such a nice tail on thee. 660 00:50:16,636 --> 00:50:20,597 " 'It's the nicest, nicest woman's arse as is. 661 00:50:20,597 --> 00:50:23,917 " 'An' ivery bit of it is woman, woman, sure as nuts. 662 00:50:23,917 --> 00:50:29,558 " 'Thart not one of them button arsed lasses as should be lads, are ter! 663 00:50:29,558 --> 00:50:35,079 " 'Tha's got a real soft sloping bottom on thee, as a man loves in 'is guts.' " 664 00:50:35,079 --> 00:50:39,199 Is that a passage you would describe as "puritanical"? 665 00:50:39,199 --> 00:50:42,279 Yes, puritanical, and poignant, and tender. 666 00:50:42,279 --> 00:50:45,640 "All the while he spoke he exquisitely stroked the rounded tail, 667 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:51,721 "till it seemed as if a slippery sort of fire came from it into his hand. 668 00:50:51,721 --> 00:50:57,281 "And his fingertips touched the two secret openings to her body, 669 00:50:57,281 --> 00:51:03,202 "time after time, with a soft little brush of fire." Is that puritanical? 670 00:51:03,202 --> 00:51:04,922 Yes, indeed it is. 671 00:51:04,922 --> 00:51:09,803 I see. " 'An' if tha shits an' if tha pisses, I'm glad. 672 00:51:09,803 --> 00:51:16,164 - " 'I don't want a woman as couldna shit nor piss.' " Is that puritanical? - Yes, it is. 673 00:51:16,164 --> 00:51:20,804 " 'Here tha shits and here tha pisses an' I lay my hand on 'em both and I like thee for it. 674 00:51:20,804 --> 00:51:24,885 " 'I like thee for it. Tha's got a proper woman's arse, proud of itself. 675 00:51:24,885 --> 00:51:27,685 " 'It's none ashamed of itself, this isna." 676 00:51:27,685 --> 00:51:34,366 "He laid his hand close and firm over her secret places, in a kind of close greeting." 677 00:51:34,366 --> 00:51:37,086 And that is puritanical, is it? 678 00:51:37,086 --> 00:51:42,047 In my view, it is puritanical, and poignant, and tender. 679 00:51:51,088 --> 00:51:53,488 Do you feel puritanical? 680 00:51:53,488 --> 00:51:57,929 Not really. Tell you the truth, I didn't have the faintest idea what he was talking about, that man. 681 00:51:57,929 --> 00:52:01,489 He was saying that sex is like a sacrament, or it was for Lawrence 682 00:52:01,489 --> 00:52:03,489 and for Mellors and Lady Chatterley. 683 00:52:03,489 --> 00:52:05,650 What's that got to do with Lawrence? 684 00:52:05,650 --> 00:52:08,690 That Bishop said that Lawrence wasn't even a Christian. 685 00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:11,250 I think he worshipped his penis. I think most men do, actually. 686 00:52:11,250 --> 00:52:13,370 The stuff you come out with. 687 00:52:13,370 --> 00:52:16,691 - Well, it's true, isn't it? - I don't worship my...penis. 688 00:52:16,691 --> 00:52:20,131 No, but you follow it where it leads, don't you? 689 00:52:20,131 --> 00:52:21,851 Is that what happened with me and you? 690 00:52:21,851 --> 00:52:23,492 Isn't it? 691 00:52:25,412 --> 00:52:29,172 Look, it's stirring, I think it overheard us. 692 00:52:29,172 --> 00:52:31,653 John Thomas. 693 00:52:31,653 --> 00:52:33,733 That chap was wrong, wasn't he? 694 00:52:33,733 --> 00:52:36,533 Lawrence wasn't all for plain speaking, not altogether. 695 00:52:36,533 --> 00:52:41,094 Mellors has a pet name for it; his penis is John Thomas and her vagina's Lady Jane. 696 00:52:41,094 --> 00:52:48,015 When he's weaves flowers through her pubic hair, and she winds creeping Jenny round his penis. 697 00:52:48,015 --> 00:52:49,975 Would you like me to do that for you? 698 00:52:49,975 --> 00:52:52,735 If you like. 699 00:52:52,735 --> 00:52:57,096 I think we should try out everything they try out, don't you? - All right. 700 00:52:57,096 --> 00:52:58,776 Not many forests round here, though. 701 00:52:58,776 --> 00:53:01,336 We'll have to improvise. 702 00:53:01,336 --> 00:53:03,737 Meanwhile... 703 00:53:11,938 --> 00:53:14,978 D'you like this? 704 00:53:14,978 --> 00:53:16,418 Yeah. 705 00:53:18,058 --> 00:53:22,259 Sylvia won't do anything like this. She says it's dirty. 706 00:53:22,259 --> 00:53:23,859 Poor Sylvia. 707 00:53:23,859 --> 00:53:26,059 I'll have to write her a little note, 708 00:53:26,059 --> 00:53:27,819 tell her what she's missing. 709 00:53:42,661 --> 00:53:44,301 I wish... 710 00:53:44,301 --> 00:53:45,982 What? 711 00:53:45,982 --> 00:53:48,662 It could be just you and me. 712 00:53:48,662 --> 00:53:50,982 That's what he said in the book. 713 00:53:52,262 --> 00:53:55,103 But the world's so full of other people. 714 00:54:03,104 --> 00:54:07,304 - Old Parker was in a right mood today. - Was he? 715 00:54:07,304 --> 00:54:09,424 Yeah. Taking it out on everyone. 716 00:54:09,424 --> 00:54:13,945 Just because he's the boss, he thinks he can carry on like a two year old in a tantrum. 717 00:54:13,945 --> 00:54:17,425 - Nasty old bugger. - Yeah. What can you do, though? 718 00:54:17,425 --> 00:54:19,146 I tell you what I do. 719 00:54:19,146 --> 00:54:22,386 I look at the clock, and I think, in two hours' time, or whatever it is, 720 00:54:22,386 --> 00:54:27,187 I'll be home, with somebody who's so much nicer than you, you old bugger. 721 00:54:27,187 --> 00:54:31,347 Well, look at you. I was only paying you a compliment! 722 00:54:53,870 --> 00:54:57,030 - Well, who'd have thought it? - What? 723 00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:58,990 You and I together in bed, like this. 724 00:54:58,990 --> 00:55:00,831 And all thanks to DH Lawrence. 725 00:55:00,831 --> 00:55:05,551 Actually, I've decided I'm not that keen on DH Lawrence or his gamekeeper. 726 00:55:05,551 --> 00:55:09,112 Why's that, then? He's always telling her things, going on at her. 727 00:55:09,112 --> 00:55:11,912 This is how life ought to be, this is what's wrong with women, 728 00:55:11,912 --> 00:55:13,792 this is what I like and don't like. 729 00:55:13,792 --> 00:55:16,433 And when they make love, it's always him in charge. 730 00:55:16,433 --> 00:55:21,113 - I thought that's what you all like. - Well, you're wrong. Anyway, you're not like that. 731 00:55:21,113 --> 00:55:23,353 I might be, given the chance. 732 00:55:23,353 --> 00:55:26,274 I don't think so. And you've got a sense of humour. 733 00:55:26,274 --> 00:55:29,634 When you really think about it, it's not a great book at all, 734 00:55:29,634 --> 00:55:32,595 it's a lot of preaching and bullying and wishful thinking. 735 00:55:32,595 --> 00:55:36,595 - It got you going, though. - Yes, I know, and I'm so ashamed. 736 00:55:39,715 --> 00:55:42,596 Anyway, it wasn't the book that got me going, 737 00:55:42,596 --> 00:55:45,676 it was you, with your bedroom eyes. 738 00:55:45,676 --> 00:55:49,317 I'd never have thought those wicked thoughts about any of those other men. 739 00:55:49,317 --> 00:55:51,357 What's so special about me? 740 00:55:51,357 --> 00:55:53,957 Oh, now he's fishing for compliments! 741 00:55:53,957 --> 00:55:58,038 - But I'll tell you. It's your innocence. - I'm not that innocent. 742 00:55:58,038 --> 00:56:00,758 Yes, you are, you're innocent, like an animal. 743 00:56:00,758 --> 00:56:03,758 There's no guile about you. 744 00:56:03,758 --> 00:56:07,879 And from the first look, I could tell you really want it, 745 00:56:07,879 --> 00:56:10,119 all of it. 746 00:56:10,119 --> 00:56:12,879 I don't think most men do, 747 00:56:12,879 --> 00:56:15,120 they just pretend they do, 748 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,520 or they really want something else - 749 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,160 power usually... 750 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,520 to get you where they want you. 751 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,961 So I'm different, am I? 752 00:56:23,961 --> 00:56:25,481 Yes, you are. 753 00:56:27,361 --> 00:56:29,761 You make me happy. 754 00:56:36,442 --> 00:56:39,323 I call Mr Francis Cammaerts. 755 00:56:41,163 --> 00:56:42,923 Call Mr John Connell. 756 00:56:42,923 --> 00:56:45,563 Miss Sarah Beryl Jones. 757 00:56:45,563 --> 00:56:48,644 Mr Norman St John Stevas. 758 00:56:50,084 --> 00:56:51,964 I call Dr James Hemming. 759 00:56:51,964 --> 00:56:53,604 Mr Francis Williams. 760 00:56:56,565 --> 00:56:58,565 Call Anne Scott-James 761 00:57:00,445 --> 00:57:02,525 Mr Raymond Williams. 762 00:57:02,525 --> 00:57:04,446 Call Mr CK Young. 763 00:57:04,446 --> 00:57:06,126 Call Mr Iain Foster. 764 00:57:06,126 --> 00:57:08,046 Dr CV Wedgwood. 765 00:57:09,126 --> 00:57:11,647 I call Sir Stanley Unwin. 766 00:57:11,647 --> 00:57:13,807 Professor Kenneth Muir. 767 00:57:13,807 --> 00:57:15,367 Mr Cecil Day-Lewis. 768 00:57:15,367 --> 00:57:17,487 Call Miss Dilys Powell. 769 00:57:17,487 --> 00:57:19,367 Mr Walter Allen. 770 00:57:19,367 --> 00:57:20,968 Call Mr Roy Jenkins. 771 00:57:20,968 --> 00:57:23,128 Mr Stephen Potter. 772 00:57:23,128 --> 00:57:26,208 Call Miss Janet Adam-Smith. 773 00:57:26,208 --> 00:57:28,089 Mr Noel Annan. 774 00:57:29,649 --> 00:57:32,609 Mr Hector Hetherington. 775 00:57:32,609 --> 00:57:36,370 Mr Hetherington, you are editor of the Manchester Guardian, 776 00:57:36,370 --> 00:57:38,970 and a member of the Royal Commission on the Police. 777 00:57:38,970 --> 00:57:44,010 Would you tell us what you would say is the theme or meaning of Lady Chatterley's Lover? 778 00:57:44,010 --> 00:57:47,051 Well, the importance of the book to me 779 00:57:47,051 --> 00:57:51,611 was as an exposition of the beauty and goodness of physical love at its best... 780 00:57:53,092 --> 00:57:57,732 ...of the redeeming power of sex, and the importance of tenderness. 781 00:57:57,732 --> 00:57:59,212 Thank you. 782 00:58:01,693 --> 00:58:03,333 No questions. 783 00:58:08,453 --> 00:58:15,014 Mr Gardener, it is in my mind that the jury may be wondering how much longer this is going to go on. 784 00:58:15,014 --> 00:58:17,534 How many more witnesses may we expect? 785 00:58:17,534 --> 00:58:21,495 My Lord, I intend to call no witnesses. 786 00:58:21,495 --> 00:58:28,616 Mr Gardiner? My Lord, I have another 36 witnesses waiting to testify to the merit of Lady Chatterley's Lover, 787 00:58:28,616 --> 00:58:35,297 but in view of my learned friend's indication that there will be no witnesses for the prosecution, 788 00:58:35,297 --> 00:58:40,017 I propose to call only one more witness. 789 00:58:40,017 --> 00:58:41,977 Call Miss Bernadine Wall. 790 00:58:53,219 --> 00:58:57,459 - Miss Wall, you've just come down from Cambridge? - That's right. 791 00:58:57,459 --> 00:58:59,780 And you're writing a novel yourself, I gather. 792 00:58:59,780 --> 00:59:02,380 - Yes. - And you have read Lady Chatterley's Lover? 793 00:59:02,380 --> 00:59:06,900 Yes. I read it first in an expurgated edition, then more recently as Lawrence wrote it. 794 00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:09,821 And what's your opinion of the unexpurgated version? 795 00:59:09,821 --> 00:59:13,301 It was much better. It gave a positive contrast. 796 00:59:13,301 --> 00:59:17,382 The love affair contrasted with the deadness of the industrial society he was describing. 797 00:59:17,382 --> 00:59:24,463 It held out a hope that this was not all, that there was some way out of this drab, daily existence. 798 00:59:24,463 --> 00:59:26,263 Thank you. 799 00:59:30,743 --> 00:59:37,904 - Now, as to the four-letter words in the book, had you known them before you read the book? - Yes, of course. 800 00:59:37,904 --> 00:59:42,905 - From what sort of age? - My Lord, what has this to do with the literary merit of the book? 801 00:59:42,905 --> 00:59:44,945 Very little, I should think. 802 00:59:44,945 --> 00:59:46,665 My Lord, I'll withdraw the question. 803 00:59:46,665 --> 00:59:49,186 And while I am on my feet, my Lord, 804 00:59:49,186 --> 00:59:55,106 might I ask whether anybody who has just come down from Cambridge can be tendered as a literary expert? 805 00:59:55,106 --> 00:59:58,227 She has started to write a novel. 806 00:59:58,227 --> 01:00:02,427 So she has, my Lord. I suppose we must all start somewhere. 807 01:00:02,427 --> 01:00:08,148 Carry on, Mr Gardiner. From the point of view of literary merit, 808 01:00:08,148 --> 01:00:11,388 how does this book compare with others you have read, 809 01:00:11,388 --> 01:00:15,429 in its treatment of human relations, including sexual relations? 810 01:00:15,429 --> 01:00:18,109 It treats that relationship with great dignity. 811 01:00:18,109 --> 01:00:21,910 More so, I think, than any novel I have ever read. 812 01:00:21,910 --> 01:00:23,510 Thank you, Miss Wall. 813 01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:27,790 No questions. 814 01:00:30,831 --> 01:00:34,791 Fuck. Fucking. 815 01:00:34,791 --> 01:00:38,712 That was a lovely fuck. 816 01:00:40,312 --> 01:00:43,632 I love your cock in my cunt. 817 01:00:45,872 --> 01:00:47,713 Go on. 818 01:00:47,713 --> 01:00:49,353 Now you say something. 819 01:00:50,913 --> 01:00:53,753 I love the feel of your... 820 01:00:53,753 --> 01:00:55,874 Go on. 821 01:00:55,874 --> 01:00:58,074 Cunt round my cock. No, I don't like it. 822 01:00:58,074 --> 01:01:02,034 I mean, I like it, but I don't like saying it out loud like that, it's like talking dirty. 823 01:01:02,034 --> 01:01:03,635 And what's wrong with talking dirty? 824 01:01:03,635 --> 01:01:05,875 I bet you don't normally use words like that. 825 01:01:05,875 --> 01:01:07,635 Yes, you're right. 826 01:01:07,635 --> 01:01:09,275 But I can with you. 827 01:01:09,275 --> 01:01:11,316 Why's that then? Because I'm a bit of rough? 828 01:01:11,316 --> 01:01:13,556 You're not a bit of rough, Keith. 829 01:01:13,556 --> 01:01:17,196 I think you're rather more respectable than me. 830 01:01:17,196 --> 01:01:18,836 What I meant was... 831 01:01:20,437 --> 01:01:23,357 ...this is our own little world here, 832 01:01:23,357 --> 01:01:26,717 we can say what we like. Yeah. 833 01:01:26,717 --> 01:01:28,198 Suppose so. 834 01:01:30,518 --> 01:01:33,718 I know it's not easy to say those words, 835 01:01:33,718 --> 01:01:36,078 but it felt all right just then. 836 01:01:36,078 --> 01:01:37,599 It felt truthful. 837 01:01:39,439 --> 01:01:43,639 And I think DH Lawrence would have thoroughly approved of me. 838 01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:46,240 And you must have liked it. 839 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:47,800 Tell you the truth... 840 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:51,840 ...I was a bit shocked to hear that from a woman. 841 01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:53,561 You were, weren't you? 842 01:01:55,561 --> 01:01:57,161 You're so sweet. 843 01:02:02,082 --> 01:02:03,082 What? 844 01:02:03,082 --> 01:02:04,762 What's the matter? 845 01:02:04,762 --> 01:02:07,802 I don't like being patronised, that's what's. I wasn't. Truly. 846 01:02:07,802 --> 01:02:12,283 - You don't think of me as equal, that's why it's all so easy for you. - Well, if you're going to sulk... 847 01:02:12,283 --> 01:02:14,843 I'm not sulking, I'm just saying what's true. 848 01:02:15,923 --> 01:02:20,124 This is all a game for you. I'm just ... an amusement to you, 849 01:02:20,124 --> 01:02:23,644 and when jury service is over, that's it, off you'll go, never a backward look. 850 01:02:23,644 --> 01:02:27,445 What was your plan? To dedicate the rest of your life to me? 851 01:02:27,445 --> 01:02:30,445 You're the one who's married, after all. 852 01:02:30,445 --> 01:02:32,605 Do you want to stop this now? Because you can if you like. 853 01:02:32,605 --> 01:02:36,566 - No. I don't want to stop. - Then let me say what I was going to just now. 854 01:02:36,566 --> 01:02:39,246 These times with you, 855 01:02:39,246 --> 01:02:41,606 they've been the best times I've had since... 856 01:02:43,127 --> 01:02:46,167 ...I don't know when. 857 01:02:46,167 --> 01:02:48,647 You make me happy. 858 01:02:48,647 --> 01:02:50,608 I love... 859 01:02:54,968 --> 01:02:57,408 I love making love with you. 860 01:02:57,408 --> 01:02:59,169 Fucking. 861 01:02:59,169 --> 01:03:01,569 Yes. Fucking. 862 01:03:01,569 --> 01:03:03,449 Yeah, you're right. 863 01:03:03,449 --> 01:03:05,049 That's what it is. 864 01:03:05,049 --> 01:03:07,930 Why call it anything else? 865 01:03:07,930 --> 01:03:10,530 Fucking. 866 01:03:10,530 --> 01:03:12,770 Cock. Cunt. 867 01:03:15,090 --> 01:03:18,291 You know what? You've got a wonderful cunt. 868 01:03:21,091 --> 01:03:24,852 Well, I think it's probably quite an ordinary cunt, 869 01:03:24,852 --> 01:03:27,492 but it's all for you. This week. 870 01:03:27,492 --> 01:03:30,012 This week for certain, 871 01:03:30,012 --> 01:03:32,893 after that, who knows? 872 01:03:32,893 --> 01:03:36,693 I think we should make the most of it. Don't you? 873 01:03:44,694 --> 01:03:48,975 She made me feel like ... a God or something. 874 01:03:48,975 --> 01:03:50,975 When we were in her little flat, 875 01:03:50,975 --> 01:03:55,735 it felt like we had the whole world in there. 876 01:03:57,256 --> 01:03:59,256 The funny thing was... 877 01:04:01,536 --> 01:04:04,376 ...it didn't make me go off Sylvia or nothing. 878 01:04:05,897 --> 01:04:07,497 I felt so... 879 01:04:07,497 --> 01:04:09,257 happy, strong... 880 01:04:10,297 --> 01:04:12,937 ...confident. 881 01:04:12,937 --> 01:04:15,138 I thought, 882 01:04:15,138 --> 01:04:18,658 "What's wrong with a man having two women?" 883 01:04:20,258 --> 01:04:22,619 Well, we really do have a mixed jury tonight. 884 01:04:22,619 --> 01:04:24,339 Let's have the first record. 885 01:04:48,302 --> 01:04:53,542 What you looking at? See anything you like? 886 01:04:53,542 --> 01:04:57,743 Yeah. Want to do anything about it? 887 01:04:57,743 --> 01:04:59,463 Yeah. 888 01:04:59,463 --> 01:05:01,903 Don't mind if I do. 889 01:05:04,104 --> 01:05:06,784 It's not nine o'clock yet. 890 01:05:06,784 --> 01:05:10,224 I don't care. Neither do I, then. 891 01:05:35,387 --> 01:05:39,028 Come on. Let's get this off. No, I'll be cold. No, you won't. 892 01:05:50,829 --> 01:05:52,830 That's it. 893 01:05:52,830 --> 01:05:54,750 That's nice, that is. 894 01:06:07,551 --> 01:06:10,192 And this is nice. 895 01:06:10,192 --> 01:06:12,112 And this is. 896 01:06:12,112 --> 01:06:15,632 - Hey, I don't like that. - Shush. You will. 897 01:06:15,632 --> 01:06:17,833 I promise. Let me. 898 01:06:19,433 --> 01:06:21,993 No, leave off. Keith! 899 01:06:51,957 --> 01:06:53,477 What's the matter? 900 01:06:55,437 --> 01:06:57,837 What is it? Come on, Sylve. Turn round. 901 01:06:57,837 --> 01:07:03,158 - Don't touch me, you bastard! - Come on, Sylve. What's the matter? - You know what's the matter! 902 01:07:03,158 --> 01:07:06,198 - You've got another woman, haven't you? - How could I have another woman? 903 01:07:06,198 --> 01:07:08,999 I don't know, but you have, haven't you? 904 01:07:08,999 --> 01:07:11,319 You've got another woman and you do that with her! 905 01:07:11,319 --> 01:07:15,600 - Oh, come on, Sylve, don't cry. - Get off me! It's true, isn't it? 906 01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:19,480 It's true! 907 01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,680 Yes, it's true. 908 01:07:23,841 --> 01:07:26,481 - Oh, Christ. Look... - I don't want to know anything about it! 909 01:07:26,481 --> 01:07:28,521 I don't want to know anything about her! 910 01:07:30,561 --> 01:07:32,802 You can go to her if you like! 911 01:07:33,842 --> 01:07:35,962 Just leave me alone, that's all! 912 01:07:44,763 --> 01:07:47,003 Members of the jury, 913 01:07:47,003 --> 01:07:49,604 this case has lasted several days, 914 01:07:49,604 --> 01:07:57,045 and you have listened to a great deal of evidence and argument with great patience and close attention. 915 01:07:57,045 --> 01:08:02,045 You have heard a great number of witnesses testify to the merit of this book, 916 01:08:02,045 --> 01:08:04,205 and not one of them 917 01:08:04,205 --> 01:08:07,726 thought it liable to deprave or corrupt. 918 01:08:09,286 --> 01:08:12,566 And what has the prosecution produced? 919 01:08:12,566 --> 01:08:15,847 Not one single witness has been found 920 01:08:15,847 --> 01:08:22,648 to come to court to say anything against Lawrence, or his book. 921 01:08:22,648 --> 01:08:28,008 The prosecution has made a point of reminding you that this is a book published at three and sixpence, 922 01:08:28,008 --> 01:08:31,369 and thus affordable to anybody. 923 01:08:31,369 --> 01:08:38,090 There is a suggestion that it might be all right if it were published as an expensive limited edition, 924 01:08:38,090 --> 01:08:41,530 not for the common man or woman. 925 01:08:41,530 --> 01:08:48,811 My learned friend asks, "Is it a book you would even wish your wife or your servants to read?" 926 01:08:48,811 --> 01:08:53,171 Now, I don't want to upset the prosecution by suggesting 927 01:08:53,171 --> 01:08:56,692 that there are nowadays some people who don't have servants. 928 01:08:57,732 --> 01:09:04,053 But isn't everybody, whether earning �10 a week, or �20 a week, 929 01:09:04,053 --> 01:09:08,333 equally interested in the society in which we live... 930 01:09:09,973 --> 01:09:14,334 ...and equally involved in the problems of relationships, 931 01:09:14,334 --> 01:09:18,414 including sexual relationships? 932 01:09:18,414 --> 01:09:24,575 And shouldn't wives be allowed to read about these things, as well as their husbands? 933 01:09:24,575 --> 01:09:27,376 And isn't it time 934 01:09:27,376 --> 01:09:31,096 we rescued Lawrence's name 935 01:09:31,096 --> 01:09:34,976 from the quite unfair reputation it has had, 936 01:09:34,976 --> 01:09:37,857 and allow our people... 937 01:09:39,577 --> 01:09:42,137 ...his people - 938 01:09:42,137 --> 01:09:44,538 to judge for themselves? 939 01:09:47,818 --> 01:09:49,698 Members of the jury... 940 01:09:51,338 --> 01:09:54,699 ...I leave Lawrence's reputation, 941 01:09:54,699 --> 01:09:57,419 and the reputation of Penguin Books... 942 01:09:59,059 --> 01:10:01,260 ...in your hands. 943 01:10:12,141 --> 01:10:15,261 Members of the jury, as you will now know, 944 01:10:15,261 --> 01:10:20,342 this case is one of immense importance, with huge and far-reaching consequences. 945 01:10:20,342 --> 01:10:25,303 In a matter of such gravity, I do not propose to waste your time by answering debating points. 946 01:10:25,303 --> 01:10:30,183 It is easy enough to poke fun at the prosecution, especially in a case of this kind, 947 01:10:30,183 --> 01:10:33,063 but I am not going to refer to any such matters. 948 01:10:34,104 --> 01:10:40,064 Now, my learned friend has examined a number of witnesses in support of the book. 949 01:10:40,064 --> 01:10:44,225 Who have we had? Bishops, prebendaries, other clergymen, 950 01:10:44,225 --> 01:10:50,706 school teachers, a fashion editor, even a young girl who has just started her first novel. 951 01:10:50,706 --> 01:10:53,946 All under the guise of literary experts. 952 01:10:53,946 --> 01:10:58,266 I know that you will not be browbeaten by evidence given by these people. 953 01:10:58,266 --> 01:11:00,987 You will judge this as ordinary people, 954 01:11:00,987 --> 01:11:07,348 your feet on the ground, reading this book and judging it according to your own moral standards. 955 01:11:07,348 --> 01:11:09,828 And there must be standards, must there not? 956 01:11:09,828 --> 01:11:13,828 There must be some restraint, or the floodgates will open. 957 01:11:13,828 --> 01:11:18,629 "A book of moral purpose," one witness called it. 958 01:11:18,629 --> 01:11:20,789 What moral purpose? 959 01:11:20,789 --> 01:11:25,430 If your husband can't satisfy you, go and copulate with other men until you find someone who can. 960 01:11:25,430 --> 01:11:29,470 Isn't that what a young person reading the book would take from it? 961 01:11:29,470 --> 01:11:36,671 Remember that you, and you alone, are the sole judge of the facts in this case. 962 01:11:36,671 --> 01:11:38,791 And in this context, 963 01:11:38,791 --> 01:11:44,712 I would ask your forgiveness for referring you to a passage on page 246. 964 01:11:44,712 --> 01:11:49,433 It is a passage that has not previously been referred to during this trial. 965 01:11:49,433 --> 01:11:56,474 It is that passage which describes what is called "the night of sensual passion". 966 01:11:56,474 --> 01:12:02,594 "It was a night of sensual passion, in which she was a little startled and almost unwilling. 967 01:12:02,594 --> 01:12:05,835 "Though a little frightened, she let him have his way." 968 01:12:05,835 --> 01:12:11,195 Not very easy, you know, to know what he is driving at in that passage. 969 01:12:11,195 --> 01:12:14,196 "And the reckless, shameless sensuality 970 01:12:14,196 --> 01:12:20,997 "shook her to her foundations, stripped her to the very last, and made a different woman of her. 971 01:12:20,997 --> 01:12:26,597 "Burning out the shames, the deepest, oldest shames, in the most secret places. 972 01:12:26,597 --> 01:12:31,918 "It cost her an effort to let him have his way and his will of her." 973 01:12:31,918 --> 01:12:37,078 One wonders why, with all the experiences that had gone before. 974 01:12:37,078 --> 01:12:44,239 "It took some getting at, the core of the physical jungle, the last and deepest recess of organic shame." 975 01:12:44,239 --> 01:12:48,920 I don't know. Is this stuff having a good influence on the young reader? 976 01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:53,440 Members of the jury, do you not think this book has a false conception 977 01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:56,641 of what proper thought and conduct ought to be? 978 01:12:56,641 --> 01:13:00,481 In a time when some proper conception is so badly needed? 979 01:13:00,481 --> 01:13:03,442 I submit to you that there can be but one answer. 980 01:13:07,082 --> 01:13:11,603 Members of the jury, we are approaching the end of this case, 981 01:13:11,603 --> 01:13:14,923 to which you have listened with the greatest care and attention. 982 01:13:14,923 --> 01:13:19,324 I propose that we adjourn until tomorrow, when I will sum up the evidence, 983 01:13:19,324 --> 01:13:23,724 and you will retire to consider your verdict. 984 01:13:23,724 --> 01:13:25,324 All rise! 985 01:13:27,285 --> 01:13:29,365 Let off a bit early today, then! 986 01:13:29,365 --> 01:13:31,285 Time off for good behaviour! 987 01:13:31,285 --> 01:13:33,365 See you in the morning. Right-O. 988 01:13:33,365 --> 01:13:34,885 Evening. 989 01:13:36,846 --> 01:13:38,846 What's the matter? 990 01:13:45,927 --> 01:13:49,607 See that? All right for some, eh? 991 01:13:58,288 --> 01:14:01,329 Well, I was quite surprised at Griffith-Jones today. 992 01:14:01,329 --> 01:14:04,049 "The night of sensual passion!" 993 01:14:04,049 --> 01:14:06,489 I didn't get what he was on about. 994 01:14:06,489 --> 01:14:09,810 Really? Didn't you? I didn't get it. 995 01:14:09,810 --> 01:14:12,730 He was talking about buggery, Keith. 996 01:14:12,730 --> 01:14:15,450 Was he? 997 01:14:15,450 --> 01:14:20,731 That's what homos do, isn't it? Well, not just homos, actually. 998 01:14:20,731 --> 01:14:22,211 Bloody hell. 999 01:14:24,211 --> 01:14:25,692 You mean, you? 1000 01:14:27,612 --> 01:14:30,132 It was something Ray was rather keen on. 1001 01:14:30,132 --> 01:14:32,132 I didn't actually care for it very much. 1002 01:14:32,132 --> 01:14:35,133 Bloody hell. 1003 01:14:35,133 --> 01:14:37,293 Ain't it against the law? 1004 01:14:56,055 --> 01:14:59,376 - What's wrong? - Sylvia knows. 1005 01:14:59,376 --> 01:15:03,656 -You told her? - She just sort of knew. I couldn't deny it. I've never been any good at telling lies. 1006 01:15:03,656 --> 01:15:05,816 No. 1007 01:15:05,816 --> 01:15:10,017 - What did you tell her about me? - Nothing. She didn't want to know. 1008 01:15:10,017 --> 01:15:12,017 She's all upset. 1009 01:15:12,017 --> 01:15:15,338 - That's why you nearly didn't come today. - Yeah. 1010 01:15:16,338 --> 01:15:18,578 But you did come. 1011 01:15:18,578 --> 01:15:20,618 I couldn't help myself. 1012 01:15:24,819 --> 01:15:26,619 Well, since you are here... 1013 01:15:55,062 --> 01:15:57,583 You don't have to. 1014 01:15:57,583 --> 01:15:59,023 I want you to. 1015 01:16:00,663 --> 01:16:02,743 I want us to do everything they did. 1016 01:16:04,864 --> 01:16:08,984 I want to give you everything she gave him. 1017 01:16:08,984 --> 01:16:11,624 I want you to give me everything he gave her. 1018 01:16:20,585 --> 01:16:26,786 "She had to be a passive, consenting thing, like a slave, a physical slave. 1019 01:16:29,187 --> 01:16:32,387 "Yet the passion licked round her, consuming, 1020 01:16:32,387 --> 01:16:38,548 "and when the sensual flame of it pressed through her bowels and breast, she thought she was dying. 1021 01:16:38,548 --> 01:16:42,348 "She often wondered what Abelard meant, when he said that in their year of love, 1022 01:16:42,348 --> 01:16:47,029 "he and Heloise had passed through all the stages and refinements of passion. 1023 01:16:47,029 --> 01:16:52,469 "She felt, now, she had come to the real bed-rock of her nature, 1024 01:16:52,469 --> 01:16:55,670 "and was essentially shameless." 1025 01:17:05,071 --> 01:17:08,191 Stay with me. 1026 01:17:08,191 --> 01:17:09,751 Please? 1027 01:17:27,834 --> 01:17:30,474 In a bleak warehouse near London Airport, 1028 01:17:30,474 --> 01:17:36,075 tens of thousands of copies of Lady Chatterley's Lover are being packaged up and made ready for delivery. 1029 01:17:36,075 --> 01:17:38,315 It's in the hands of the jury. 1030 01:17:38,315 --> 01:17:41,155 Will they go on sale or be pulped? 1031 01:17:42,875 --> 01:17:48,676 Members of the jury, you are the sole judges of the facts. 1032 01:17:48,676 --> 01:17:52,357 As we all know, these days the world seems to be full of experts. 1033 01:17:52,357 --> 01:17:56,757 But our criminal law is based on the view that the jury takes of the facts, 1034 01:17:56,757 --> 01:18:00,638 and not the view that experts say you should take. 1035 01:18:00,638 --> 01:18:07,238 You've got to look at the book as one you yourselves might have bought for three shillings and sixpence, 1036 01:18:07,238 --> 01:18:12,679 and then you must ask yourselves the question, "Does it tend to deprave and corrupt?" 1037 01:18:12,679 --> 01:18:17,200 Now, you have been told that it is a moral tract, 1038 01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,600 and a book that Christians should read. 1039 01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:22,880 But what do you think? 1040 01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:25,521 What is the story? 1041 01:18:25,521 --> 01:18:29,401 A woman has sexual intercourse before she is married, 1042 01:18:29,401 --> 01:18:35,242 and then, after she is married, commits adultery with someone called Michaelis, 1043 01:18:35,242 --> 01:18:39,922 and then proceeds to have adulterous intercourse with her husband's gamekeeper. 1044 01:18:39,922 --> 01:18:43,403 And that is described, you may think, 1045 01:18:43,403 --> 01:18:45,443 in the most lurid way. 1046 01:18:45,443 --> 01:18:50,764 If you have any reasonable doubt whether it has been proved to your satisfaction 1047 01:18:50,764 --> 01:18:56,364 that the tendency of this book is to deprave and corrupt morals, of course you will acquit. 1048 01:18:56,364 --> 01:19:00,285 On the other hand, if you are satisfied that the book 1049 01:19:00,285 --> 01:19:06,366 does have a tendency to deprave and corrupt, of course you will not hesitate to say so. 1050 01:19:06,366 --> 01:19:11,686 Now, a vast number of witnesses have been called. 1051 01:19:11,686 --> 01:19:16,367 But you are not governed by the opinions they have expressed. 1052 01:19:16,367 --> 01:19:19,447 You are the judges of the matter. 1053 01:19:19,447 --> 01:19:25,048 You might think that some of them proceeded on the basis, 1054 01:19:25,048 --> 01:19:29,168 this is a book by Lawrence, therefore this is a good book. 1055 01:19:29,168 --> 01:19:32,569 You must make up your own minds about that. 1056 01:19:32,569 --> 01:19:40,170 So, if you'd be kind enough to retire and consider your verdict and tell me how you find. 1057 01:19:42,290 --> 01:19:44,370 All rise! 1058 01:19:59,092 --> 01:20:01,492 Well, who'd like to start us off? 1059 01:20:01,492 --> 01:20:05,853 Well, I'd say guilty. If that's not a dirty book, I don't know what is. 1060 01:20:05,853 --> 01:20:11,853 I mean, a laugh's a laugh, but I don't mind saying I found it quite shocking in parts. 1061 01:20:11,853 --> 01:20:13,694 And as to literary merit? 1062 01:20:13,694 --> 01:20:17,494 I don't think it's clever sticking in those four-letter words in. 1063 01:20:17,494 --> 01:20:22,415 My dad used to say swearing was the sign of an impoverished vocabulary. 1064 01:20:22,415 --> 01:20:25,935 I agree with him. I think it should be banned. 1065 01:20:25,935 --> 01:20:30,856 The judge seemed to think we should return a guilty verdict. 1066 01:20:30,856 --> 01:20:33,376 He also said we didn't have to follow his opinion. 1067 01:20:33,376 --> 01:20:37,777 True. It's interesting that the prosecution didn't call any expert witnesses. 1068 01:20:37,777 --> 01:20:41,017 They didn't need any. It's like the judge said. 1069 01:20:41,017 --> 01:20:43,817 I think it's rather more likely that they couldn't find any. 1070 01:20:43,817 --> 01:20:46,018 You think it should be banned. 1071 01:20:46,018 --> 01:20:51,178 Do you really think it might deprave or corrupt anybody? 1072 01:20:51,178 --> 01:20:54,699 That's not the point. It should be banned on grounds of public decency. 1073 01:20:54,699 --> 01:20:56,699 It's exactly as the prosecution put it. 1074 01:20:56,699 --> 01:21:02,100 Publish this and you've opened the floodgates, you've opened the way for any kind of filthy rubbish. 1075 01:21:02,100 --> 01:21:06,180 We'll be poisoning the minds of our own children, and generations to follow. 1076 01:21:06,180 --> 01:21:10,060 Is this what we want the 1960s to be? 1077 01:21:10,060 --> 01:21:15,861 Is this what we fought two world wars for, the freedom to publish dirty books? 1078 01:21:15,861 --> 01:21:18,061 But this isn't a dirty book! 1079 01:21:18,061 --> 01:21:21,302 There's nothing dirty about sex. 1080 01:21:21,302 --> 01:21:23,542 It's natural, isn't it? 1081 01:21:23,542 --> 01:21:29,423 And I don't like the idea of anyone telling me what I'm allowed to read and not allowed to read. 1082 01:21:29,423 --> 01:21:33,823 And I don't want to be the one to tell anyone else, except my own kids, 1083 01:21:33,823 --> 01:21:39,904 and they're grown up now anyway, and they can choose for themselves. Cos that's what we're here for, isn't it, 1084 01:21:39,904 --> 01:21:43,185 to say if other people can read it? 1085 01:21:43,185 --> 01:21:45,705 Well, it hasn't done any of us any harm, has it? 1086 01:21:45,705 --> 01:21:48,305 I wonder if it has. 1087 01:21:58,466 --> 01:22:03,147 Do any of us think that we have been depraved or corrupted by reading Lady Chatterley's Lover? 1088 01:22:03,147 --> 01:22:06,427 Well, who'd answer yes to a question like that? 1089 01:22:06,427 --> 01:22:11,548 That is the question we are asked to answer. 1090 01:22:11,548 --> 01:22:19,109 And perhaps the best way to answer it is to ask ourselves, have I been depraved or corrupted by this book? 1091 01:22:19,109 --> 01:22:24,309 We've been picked at random, 12 ordinary men and women. 1092 01:22:25,310 --> 01:22:28,910 If the book has a tendency to deprave and corrupt, 1093 01:22:28,910 --> 01:22:33,991 then it's likely, isn't it, that it would have had that effect on us, 1094 01:22:33,991 --> 01:22:37,951 or at least some of us. So, has it? 1095 01:22:37,951 --> 01:22:45,832 Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I've been a bit...you know...shook up by it. 1096 01:22:45,832 --> 01:22:53,513 Reading this book, I feel like I might be missing out on things, you know...sex and that. 1097 01:22:53,513 --> 01:22:56,953 I don't mean to say I've never had it or anything, 1098 01:22:56,953 --> 01:23:00,114 but not like in the book. 1099 01:23:00,114 --> 01:23:02,794 And it sort of makes you think, 1100 01:23:02,794 --> 01:23:08,475 "Maybe I should," sort of thing, but I don't suppose I ever shall. 1101 01:23:08,475 --> 01:23:13,795 - Is that depraved and corrupted? I wouldn't have thought so. - Wouldn't you? 1102 01:23:13,795 --> 01:23:17,636 I think our friend here has put his finger on something. What it is is this, 1103 01:23:17,636 --> 01:23:21,116 the man who wrote this book is saying sex is everything, 1104 01:23:21,116 --> 01:23:26,517 and any kind of behaviour is justified in the search for sex, sex, and more sex! 1105 01:23:26,517 --> 01:23:32,918 He's saying it's perfectly fine for women to behave like whores before marriage and in marriage, 1106 01:23:32,918 --> 01:23:39,639 it's perfectly fine to hold your marriage vows with contempt, all for the sake of sex. 1107 01:23:39,639 --> 01:23:46,999 He's telling us that we should indulge and satisfy our appetites like farmyard animals! 1108 01:23:46,999 --> 01:23:50,440 If that's not depraving and corrupting, I don't know what is! 1109 01:23:50,440 --> 01:23:54,200 All he's doing is asking us to think about our lives. 1110 01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:57,361 And what result has that had in your case, may I ask? 1111 01:23:57,361 --> 01:24:00,201 Or perhaps I don't need to ask. 1112 01:24:02,401 --> 01:24:06,762 I wouldn't say I'd been depraved or corrupted by Lady Chatterley's Lover, 1113 01:24:06,762 --> 01:24:11,282 but I would say I've been affected by it. 1114 01:24:11,282 --> 01:24:14,123 But that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing, isn't it? 1115 01:24:14,123 --> 01:24:16,963 He's challenging us to look at our lives. 1116 01:24:16,963 --> 01:24:19,563 He's saying that some things are so... 1117 01:24:19,563 --> 01:24:22,404 special, 1118 01:24:22,404 --> 01:24:24,884 they're worth sacrificing anything for. 1119 01:24:24,884 --> 01:24:31,205 And sex...really good sex... is such a strong thing, 1120 01:24:31,205 --> 01:24:35,885 it just smashes up your whole life and puts it together in a different way. 1121 01:24:35,885 --> 01:24:41,926 If you find that passion and tenderness with someone... 1122 01:24:43,486 --> 01:24:45,967 ...you have to follow it. 1123 01:24:47,567 --> 01:24:49,367 That's what he's saying. 1124 01:24:49,367 --> 01:24:52,447 But you can't just live your whole life like that. 1125 01:24:52,447 --> 01:24:54,888 Maybe Lawrence could, but we can't. 1126 01:24:57,288 --> 01:25:00,368 I mean, you'd just burn yourself up... 1127 01:25:00,368 --> 01:25:02,289 ...wouldn't you? 1128 01:25:02,289 --> 01:25:04,849 Wouldn't it be worth it? 1129 01:25:14,730 --> 01:25:16,170 They're coming back. 1130 01:25:47,174 --> 01:25:52,175 Members of the jury, are you agreed upon your verdict? We are. 1131 01:25:52,175 --> 01:25:58,415 Do you find that Penguin Books are guilty or not guilty of publishing an obscene article? 1132 01:26:01,936 --> 01:26:03,536 Not guilty. 1133 01:26:08,257 --> 01:26:10,217 Silence in court! 1134 01:26:13,297 --> 01:26:15,417 Silence in court! 1135 01:26:16,898 --> 01:26:19,218 Silence in court! 1136 01:27:20,225 --> 01:27:24,186 I still don't know whether we done the right thing. 1137 01:27:24,186 --> 01:27:27,866 Not the verdict, I mean, me and Helena. 1138 01:27:27,866 --> 01:27:32,627 It was thinking about Sylvia and the baby coming, that and thinking, 1139 01:27:32,627 --> 01:27:37,107 Well, like Helena said, "Sex isn't everything." 1140 01:27:37,107 --> 01:27:39,108 Maybe I was wrong. 1141 01:27:39,108 --> 01:27:41,988 But in a funny sort of way, 1142 01:27:41,988 --> 01:27:45,948 I think it was good for us, me and Sylvia, I mean. 1143 01:27:45,948 --> 01:27:48,149 Not at first, of course. 1144 01:27:48,149 --> 01:27:50,389 A bit rough at first, 1145 01:27:50,389 --> 01:27:52,869 but we stayed together. 1146 01:27:55,189 --> 01:27:57,310 It seems funny now, 1147 01:27:57,310 --> 01:27:59,990 all that passion. 1148 01:27:59,990 --> 01:28:03,070 All such a long time ago. 1149 01:28:03,070 --> 01:28:07,191 Yes, I married again, to a very nice man indeed. 1150 01:28:07,191 --> 01:28:09,591 He died three years ago. We were very happy. 1151 01:28:09,591 --> 01:28:12,512 I was very lucky. 1152 01:28:12,512 --> 01:28:14,032 But the most intense, the most important experience of my life, I'd have to say, 1153 01:28:14,152 --> 01:28:18,712 But the most intense, the most important experience of my life, I'd have to say, 1154 01:28:18,712 --> 01:28:23,393 was that week of sex, that week of love I had with Keith. 1155 01:28:24,953 --> 01:28:27,033 My Chatterley affair. 1156 01:28:32,394 --> 01:28:39,675 The time now is five minutes to 12, to zero hour, because here in this bookshop in the heart of London, 1157 01:28:39,675 --> 01:28:43,475 Lady Chatterley goes on sale at 12 noon sharp. 1158 01:28:43,475 --> 01:28:47,796 So let's wait and see how the rush develops and see what happens. 1159 01:28:51,156 --> 01:28:53,797 One copy only. 1160 01:28:53,797 --> 01:28:55,637 Thank you. 1161 01:28:55,637 --> 01:28:58,917 - Two, please. - One only. Only one. 1162 01:28:58,917 --> 01:29:02,198 - Why are you buying a copy? - Just to see what it's about. 1163 01:29:02,198 --> 01:29:03,598 Why do you want a copy? 1164 01:29:03,598 --> 01:29:07,438 - We've heard so much about it, I just want to have a look. - How about you? 1165 01:29:07,438 --> 01:29:10,719 I shall be doing a course on the modern novel at university. 1166 01:29:10,719 --> 01:29:13,559 Why do you want a copy of Lady Chatterley? 1167 01:29:13,559 --> 01:29:16,999 - How about you? - Just to find out what it's all about. 1168 01:29:16,999 --> 01:29:20,200 - Why do you want a copy? - I'm buying it for somebody else. 1169 01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:22,000 You're buying it for somebody else? 1170 01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:25,360 - Why do you want a copy? - For my wife. For your wife? 104968

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