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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,415 NARRATOR: They are the murders that shook the nation... 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,335 REPORTER: The savagery of this murder 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,335 has shocked even the most hardened detectives. 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,895 REPORTER: He was attacked by this bus stop by a racist mob. 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,975 REPORTER: This flat was the scene of a horrific killing. 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:21,095 For decades, the truth lay hidden, and the killers evaded justice. 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,975 Until one woman took up the hunt. 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,415 Angela has solved some of the biggest cases in British history. 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,215 Dr Angela Gallop is a world-leading forensic scientist. 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,895 I've clone a lot of work with forensic scientists, 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,055 but she's the best. 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,815 She led the team and set the standard. 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,415 She put the bar where it was. 14 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,335 She's helped solve hundreds of high-profile cold cases, 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,375 finding clues where others have failed. 16 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,375 Without the forensic input, 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,255 the murder would never have been solved. 18 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,575 Now Dr Gallop is opening her extraordinary casebook 19 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,975 to reveal the forensic secrets 20 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,375 behind some of the country's most infamous crimes 21 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,855 and how they caught the killers 22 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,135 who thought they'd got away with murder. 23 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,735 It's a puzzle that you have to solve. 24 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,335 Every contact leaves a trace. 25 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,295 It's just whether or not we are clever enough to find it. 26 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,455 NARRATOR: Tonight, the racist murderers of a teenager 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,135 had remained free for well over a decade. 28 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,615 Stephen Lawrence was brutally killed. 29 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,615 It must be the most high-profile criminal case 30 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,775 in recent criminal justice history. 31 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,175 It's a despicable attack. 32 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:39,975 NARRATOR: Could forensic science 33 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,615 finally find the clues to bring the killers to justice? 34 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,935 We were going to give it our very best shot. 35 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:49,135 In all murder cases, 36 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,255 the one that nails you in the end is the forensics. 37 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,815 It was a sort of murder you'd expect 38 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:24,495 in the Deep South in the States in the '50s or '60s, 39 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,615 not in 1990s South London. 40 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,095 Stephen Lawrence was brutally killed 41 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,695 by a group of racist thugs. 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,575 They came in to attack any Black youngsters 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,535 for no reason other than clue to the colour of the person's skin. 44 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,295 It was like an old-fashioned lynching. 45 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:01,135 Stephen Lawrence, a teenager at the time, 46 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,295 was with his friend Duwayne Brooks, 47 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,335 and they were waiting at a bus stop 48 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,775 in Well Hall Road in South East London. 49 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,575 They'd just missed a bus to get home... 50 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,255 ...and it was a "wrong place at the wrong time," 51 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:25,175 where they went on the turf of a racist gang. 52 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:31,535 And they were subjected to an unprovoked racist attack... 53 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,495 ...by a number of young white men. 54 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:41,175 Er, and he wasn't able to be saved, you know? 55 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,575 Dead, really, when he got to hospital. 56 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:55,135 A mother goes to the hospital and finds a dead body of her son. 57 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,375 How painful can that be? 58 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,335 NARRATOR: Stephen Lawrence's murder 59 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,455 was a despicable crime which shocked the nation. 60 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,015 But the investigation which followed 61 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,175 was to cause more pain for the family 62 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,855 and bring shame on Britain's largest police force. 63 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,375 Stephen's suspected killers remained free. 64 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,615 Thirteen years after the murder, 65 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,775 the evidence to catch the racist gang still eluded the police. 66 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,615 A new team of detectives was brought in, 67 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,815 and they turned to Dr Angela Gallop 68 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:43,175 to carry out a detailed review of the forensics. 69 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:44,615 So, it all came down to science. 70 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,375 It was gonna come down to science. 71 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,415 NARRATOR: Angela Gallop is one of Britain's top forensic scientists. 72 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:59,055 She has helped solve hundreds of cases since the 1970s. 73 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,815 Although concentrating on the science of crime detection, 74 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:06,975 she has always been driven by a keen sense of justice. 75 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,535 I think at a fairly early stage, 76 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:17,135 I got absolutely gripped by forensic science and by what it could do. 77 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:22,575 Ancl it's partly about fairness, and that matters very much to me. 78 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,535 I think a lot of this sense of justice 79 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,415 probably came from our mother. 80 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,495 She was a very thoughtful person, 81 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,695 and we were kind of brought up with this notion 82 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,855 that that is fair, and that is not fair. 83 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,855 You could see very strongly in Angela that she is, I think, 84 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,535 driven very much by this sense that justice should be clone. 85 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,735 You know, bad people should be punished, 86 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,655 and good people should not be punished. 87 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,935 Ancl that takes her, interestingly, to forensic science, 88 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,775 which is exactly what forensic science does. 89 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,055 Society gets better justice. 90 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,055 NARRATOR: Now Angela needed to help solve a case 91 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,575 which had shocked a nation. 92 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,255 A case which continued to highlight racial injustice in society 93 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:13,455 and in law enforcement. 94 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,695 It must be the most high-profile criminal case 95 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,415 in recent criminal justice history, I would think. 96 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,495 Ancl of course we were delighted 97 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,575 to accept what was a great challenge, actually, 98 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,815 cos so much had been talked about and thought about this case. 99 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:30,095 In a way, it was quite unlike any of the others. 100 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,215 NARRATOR: Angela went back to the case files 101 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,575 to get an initial understanding of the attack. 102 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:39,775 Stephen and Duwayne Brooks 103 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,495 had been minding their own business at the bus stop 104 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,975 when they'd caught the eyes of a gang of five white youths, 105 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,775 evidently racist in the language they were using. 106 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,255 Ancl Stephen got surrounded by this gang, 107 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:55,735 kicked, punched and knifed twice. 108 00:06:56,840 --> 00:07:00,255 Stephen was fatally injured in that attack 109 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:05,175 while him and Duwayne Brooks were trying to escape their attackers. 110 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,495 NARRATOR: Angela brought together a team to review the evidence. 111 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:21,335 Forensic examiner April Robson, hair evidence expert Deb Hopwood... 112 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,655 ...and fibre and particle examiner Roger Robson. 113 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,895 The scientists knew this was probably gonna be the last time, 114 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,215 erm, we were gonna get to try and find the evidence. 115 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,975 Everybody else had failed, 116 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:43,015 and it just takes that little bit of extra perseverance, really. 117 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,215 If the evidence is there, we should be able to find it. 118 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,775 We were aware that there was an enormous amount of additional trauma 119 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,575 that the family had been through 120 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,815 because of all the various legal stages and enquiries and so on. 121 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,495 So we were going to give it our very best shot. 122 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,935 NARRATOR: Four years before Angela had joined the cold case team, 123 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,095 a judge had led a public inquiry into the original investigation. 124 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,775 REPORTER: This was supposed to be the final word 125 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,415 on a disastrously incompetent police inquiry. 126 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,815 NARRATOR: After hearing extensive evidence, 127 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,415 Lord MacPherson had reported 128 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,495 that the Metropolitan Police's search for Stephen's killers 129 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,575 had been marred by "professional incompetence" 130 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,735 and "institutional racism." 131 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,735 Key, now, to getting justice for Stephen 132 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,455 would be Angela's partnership with the experienced detective 133 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,175 in charge of the new inquiry, Clive Driscoll. 134 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,655 Investigating a murder is like a thousand piece jigsaw, 135 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:52,295 but the jigsaw's been thrown here, there and everywhere, 136 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,255 so the scientists have some of the pieces, 137 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:55,935 the police have some of the pieces, 138 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,935 the witnesses have some of the pieces, 139 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,335 some of the pieces are exhibits. 140 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,095 Ancl that's exactly what happens. 141 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,935 You're just putting it all together so the jury can see the picture. 142 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,335 NARRATOR: For both Clive and Angela, 143 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,375 the first piece of the jigsaw was the crime scene. 144 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,655 Nearly 20 years on, 145 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:18,095 they are meeting up again at the spot where Stephen was attacked. 146 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,655 I always feel quite sad when I come back here, funnily enough, 147 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:22,855 because it's almost like a memory. 148 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,295 Even when I drive through here occasionally, 149 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,215 I always get a bit of a sad feeling, really. Yeah. 150 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,375 Young Stephen lost his life here, and... 151 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:31,735 It's the normality of it 152 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,495 which makes it even more horrific in a way, isn't it? 153 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:35,855 A nice suburban street 154 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:40,295 and that sort of awful sort of thing that can happen. 155 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,535 If we look over there, that's Dickson Road. 156 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:45,095 That's where the attack took place, 157 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,815 and if you look down the road to the zebra crossing, 158 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,735 that's where the five or six lads ran across the road. 159 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,215 Ancl once the attack took place, they then ran, crossing over, 160 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,535 and Stephen got just a bit further down the road there, 161 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:03,655 where, in fact, his injuries caused him to lose his life. 162 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,415 Stephen wouldn't have known what was about to happen to him. 163 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:09,655 He had headphones on. 164 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,495 They were running across the road, 165 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,735 and they all actually just descended like a pack of wolves. 166 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,455 Stephen was stabbed twice. 167 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,455 The first injury actually went down here by the clavicle 168 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,135 and severed the artery there. 169 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:29,335 The next injury came up there and actually severed another artery. 170 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:34,775 He had lots of bruising, he had lots of other marks on him, 171 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,495 and you've got someone who's obviously, 172 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,655 as we all would be if we were attacked, 173 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:41,855 your heart goes faster. 174 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,135 Then he did the most normal, natural thing you could ever do. 175 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:49,055 He's running away from danger which made his heart pump faster. 176 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,255 The worst thing he could have clone 177 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,055 but so understandable why he'd clone it. 178 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,695 So understandable. Absolutely. 179 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:01,175 NARRATOR: But in 2006, when taking on the forensics for the cold case, 180 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,935 Angela was aware that there was a problem. 181 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,575 In the 1990s, there had been no effective scientific evidence 182 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,175 leading to Stephen's killers. 183 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,975 Angela knew this because she had already investigated 184 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,535 and found nothing. 185 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,695 Stephen's parents, Neville and Doreen Lawrence, 186 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:25,815 had had their doubts 187 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,535 about the competence of the police investigation 188 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:31,095 from the very beginning. 189 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,175 You've got to remember there were stereotypes of young Black men. 190 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,015 He didn't fit the stereotype, 191 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,855 and it's not a stereotype that I was aware of. 192 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,095 I knew that police and the community and society 193 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,335 suggest a stereotype of young Black men. 194 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,415 Ancl he didn't fit that at all. 195 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,895 Stephen was a high achiever, he was gonna be an architect. 196 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,775 He hadn't been in any sort of trouble, 197 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,695 he was incredibly well-loved 198 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,215 and liked by his immediate family and those around him. 199 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:04,175 So it wasn't long before the family started to become a bit cynical 200 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,495 about the police response and what they were doing, 201 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,295 and then they came to the conclusion 202 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,815 that perhaps it was because it was a Black man who had been killed, 203 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,295 and they were a Black family, 204 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,935 that somehow they were not getting the treatment 205 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,935 that others in the community got. 206 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,015 If it had been a white boy, 207 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,615 they would have surrounded the Black community, 208 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,175 they would have arrested as many Black boys as they could, 209 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,855 and they would not stop until they get the killer. 210 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,015 NARRATOR: Although arrests were made about two weeks after the murder... 211 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,775 ...the suspects were soon released. 212 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,975 Well, I believe in fairness, 213 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:47,455 and I don't think what happened today is fair at all. 214 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,015 When it became clear 215 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,735 that the CPS were not going to progress with a prosecution, 216 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,975 the Lawrence family decided 217 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,455 that they were going to take out a private prosecution, 218 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:03,175 and that was when I was contacted in 1995 by lmran Khan, their solicitor. 219 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,095 In all murder cases, the key bits of evidence, 220 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,815 the one that nails you in the end, is the forensics. 221 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,295 If you get the forensics right, 222 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,655 all of the other stuff is icing on the cake. 223 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,535 Ancl so we had to look at the forensic evidence 224 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:20,855 to see what could be found. 225 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,215 I was asked to go and check the work 226 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,415 that had been clone at the police laboratory, 227 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:31,375 just to see whether everything had been clone that could've been clone. 228 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,295 Ancl the searches at that time 229 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,895 focused very much on tiny textile fibre fragments 230 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,095 that could have been transferred from the suspects' clothing 231 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,455 to Stephen's clothing. 232 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,415 It was reason that, in the time that he ran down the road, 233 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,695 not many of any fibre fragments, 234 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,415 which would have been transferred to him immediately beforehand, 235 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,615 would have had time to drop off and be lost, 236 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,935 whereas because the clothing from the suspects hadn't been seized 237 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,295 for about two weeks after the attack, 238 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,855 anything that might've been transferred to them 239 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,255 on the night in question could easily have been lost. 240 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,975 Ancl so the focus was very much on looking for suspect fibres 241 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,455 on Stephen's clothing. 242 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,015 Ancl so I checked those, but in the end of the clay, 243 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,295 didn't really come up with any more evidence 244 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,415 than the original scientists had found. 245 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,135 NARRATOR: This lack of forensic evidence 246 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,455 had dealt a massive blow to the family's hopes 247 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,135 of bringing a prosecution against the suspects. 248 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:39,975 And when the judge ruled 249 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,615 that evidence from Stephen's friend Duwayne, 250 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,295 identifying the suspects, 251 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,375 was inadmissible, the case collapsed. 252 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:55,455 We knew then that was it. We couldn't prosecute ever again. 253 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,535 NARRATOR: The three men acquitted in the private prosecution 254 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,175 were now protected by law from ever being tried for the murder again. 255 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,855 And there appeared to be no forensic evidence to catch the murderers. 256 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,255 Many now believed that the killers of Stephen Lawrence 257 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,695 would never be brought to justice. 258 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,015 But the one thing 259 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,375 that I've learnt about forensic science over the years 260 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,575 is that you never say never. 261 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,855 NARRATOR I It was 2006. 262 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,695 Forensic expert Dr Angela Gallop had been called in to find evidence 263 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,295 in one of the most notorious cold cases in British history. 264 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,295 The racist murder of Stephen Lawrence. 265 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,455 Stephen had been stabbed to death 266 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,815 while waiting for a bus in South London 267 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,135 in April 1993. 268 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,975 Angela found that the senior cold case detective, Clive Driscoll, 269 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,895 believed his new research at the crime scene 270 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,295 had given him a fresh insight into the murder. 271 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,895 I used to come down here a lot. 272 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,815 I spent loads of time walking up and down 273 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,655 and trying to work out where we were and what had happened. 274 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,255 Ancl one of the things that I quickly worked out was there were... 275 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,455 If you took the longest time, someone said it was a minute, 276 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:25,735 if you took the shortest time, 277 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,215 someone said it was over and clone with in a couple of seconds. 278 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,175 And, erm... we re-enacted it, and we formed the opin... 279 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,375 Ancl I still believe this to this clay, 280 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,615 that it was about between 15 and 23 seconds, 281 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,975 which is, for your world, transference... 282 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,095 Yeah. ..and people... 283 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,215 It's a long time! It's a long time, yeah. 284 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:47,775 Ancl I felt that, 285 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,135 you know, certainly, from what I'd read from, 286 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,575 you know, the previous scientists... 287 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,975 that they'd... that they'd always felt it was a brief attack. 288 00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,015 Well, I didn't. 289 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,295 And, in fact, Professor Gallop immediately said, 290 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,295 "Yeah, this isn't a brief attack. 291 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,255 "There's greater opportunities 292 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,695 "for transference of all types of material." 293 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,375 You could begin to see that, actually, the attack 294 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,095 would have taken place over a bit of a period of time, 295 00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:23,895 and there would have been plenty of opportunity for, 296 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,495 particularly, contact between clothing of the assailants 297 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,375 and... and Stephen's clothing. 298 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,175 And... And so, that was ream], for us, 299 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,455 the start of being able to look at this 300 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,495 in a different way with Professor Gallop's team. 301 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,775 NARRATOR: Angela and her team now had to explore the idea 302 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,775 that there had been greater contact between the attackers and Stephen 303 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,895 than first assumed. 304 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,375 She decided to focus on the possible transfer 305 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,055 of textile fibres from clothing. 306 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,695 Textile fibres are an incredibly important source 307 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,095 of forensic evidence, much underrated, I always think. 308 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:12,335 Because all the time, most of our clothing 309 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:15,615 is shedding these tiny fragments as we move about, 310 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,215 as we come into contact with other surfaces. 311 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,255 They can be a fantastic way of showing a connection 312 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,255 between clothing of one person, clothing of another. 313 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,015 Some fibres you can see, 314 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,695 but the vast majority are so small and microscopic, 315 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,295 you just wouldn't know what's sat on the surface of your own garments, 316 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:44,095 and what then has potential to transfer to somebody else's. 317 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:48,415 Which is a nightmare for a criminal, it's great for a forensic scientist. 318 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,215 We were aware that the defendant's clothing hadn't been seized 319 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,135 for at least two weeks after the of fence. 320 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,775 So arguably, you would expect most of the evidence to have been lost. 321 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,855 However, Stephen's clothing had been seized and packaged immediately, 322 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,455 so hopefully they were a good source of potential evidence, 323 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,015 even though we were aware 324 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,495 that they had already been previously examined. 325 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,335 My role was to re-examine all the exhibits. 326 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,895 We started off with Stephen's exhibits. 327 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,895 So, again, we taped the exhibits, 328 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:33,095 and then we looked at his exhibits for blood. 329 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,375 Ancl it was only then, 330 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,375 when I started looking at the tapings from Stephen's clothing, 331 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,215 that I realised that what I was identifying 332 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:46,295 was a lot of red fibres, red cottons, and red synthetics. 333 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,295 Ancl at the time, it wasn't obvious where they were from, 334 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,735 but then we realised that Stephen's polo shirt, 335 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,015 that he was wearing three or four layers down, were shedding fibres. 336 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,375 What it told us was that these red fibres 337 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,335 might be worth looking for on the suspects' clothing. 338 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,175 Because they were on the outside of his outer clothing, 339 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,055 erm... and therefore, available for transfer to anybody 340 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,895 who came into contact with him. 341 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,415 NARRATOR: This was the initial breakthrough 342 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,815 that Clive Driscoll needed. 343 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,535 I can remember the phone call because she... she actually said, 344 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,775 "We found thousands," was her words, "of red fibres." 345 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,015 Ancl I said, "Oh, it's probably the ambulance blanket." 346 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,095 Ancl she said, "No, it ain't." She said, "It's a different colour." 347 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:39,935 That was his third shirt... was shedding all over. 348 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,735 So, if it shed from the third shirt outwards, 349 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,335 the chances of it going further on other people's clothing 350 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:49,455 must be an opportunity. 351 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,855 In one way or another, the fibres from the polo shirt 352 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,135 were transferring to other garments that he was wearing, 353 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,695 and therefore they were sitting on the surface of his jacket, 354 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,695 giving us the potential 355 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,055 to then look for those red cotton and red polyester fibres 356 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,935 on the assailants. 357 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,175 NARRATOR: But the team would need to analyse the suspects' clothes... 358 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,655 thread by thread. 359 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,255 We take an exhibit, 360 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,095 and in a controlled laboratory environment, 361 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:28,095 the item of clothing comes out of the bag. 362 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:32,935 We usually have it laid on a piece of brown paper 363 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,695 just to collect anything that might fall off. 364 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,335 And then we meticulously work our way across the garment 365 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,375 with pieces of tape, 366 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,775 and each piece of tape is then sealed 367 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,495 under an acetate sheet. 368 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,975 From there, we then used low power microscopy 369 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,535 to look at each of those pieces of tape, 370 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,015 mark up fibres that may be of interest, 371 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,735 and then individually remove them one by one. 372 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,975 NARRATOR: Among the clothes 373 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,535 were items belonging to two of the original suspects, 374 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,775 David Norris, and his friend, Gary Dobson. 375 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,015 But Dobson had already been acquitted of the murder 376 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,175 in the trial which followed the private prosecution 377 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,215 brought by Stephen's family. 378 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:29,935 I started looking at Dobson's jacket for these red fibres, 379 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,935 and I found 11 fibres that were very similar 380 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,055 to Stephen's polo shirt. 381 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,775 They were then sent for additional analysis. 382 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,735 So I then looked at the sweatshirt of David Norris 383 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,815 and found one red fibre that was similar, 384 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,255 and again, that was sent off for analysis. 385 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,335 NARRATOR: The analysis found that these fibres 386 00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:58,615 matched Stephen's red polo shirt. 387 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:00,855 Ancl that led us to think, 388 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,575 "Well, if we're finding these fibres, 389 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,975 "you know, from Stephen's clothing on the suspect, 390 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,335 "well, let's look for some other types of fibres 391 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:10,455 "from his clothing on them." 392 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,375 NARRATOR: The team then found fibres from Stephen's jacket 393 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,855 on Gary Dobson's clothing. 394 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,255 And green fibres from Stephen's corduroy trousers 395 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,295 on the sweatshirt that David Norris had been wearing 396 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:26,935 on the night of the attack. 397 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:32,415 Now we were beginning to amass quite an amount of textile fibre evidence. 398 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,775 NARRATOR: But textile fibre evidence alone 399 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,215 would not be enough to prove murder. 400 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,335 And despite many more days and weeks hunched over a microscope, 401 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:47,455 the team could find nothing more on the tapings 402 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,775 from Dobson's jacket or Norris' sweatshirt. 403 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,975 So if they wanted to pursue this lead further, 404 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,295 they needed a moment of inspiration. 405 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,495 These items of clothing have been in packaging, 406 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,695 and they've been taken out of packaging, put back into it, 407 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,655 lots of times over the years. 408 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,375 And, so, maybe, what we should be doing 409 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,175 is having a look at the original packaging itself. 410 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,735 NARRATOR: The team began to carefully remove 411 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,815 tiny pieces of debris from corners of the packaging 412 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,215 in which the suspects' clothes had been stored. 413 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,375 They were searching for more red fibres from Stephen's top. 414 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,975 But they found something which appeared to be even more crucial. 415 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,215 So, we went into every nook and crevice 416 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,375 just to make sure we got everything out of there. 417 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,135 Ancl we were pretty surprised to find a flake of blood. 418 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,335 NARRATOR: The blood in the bag was attached to tiny blue fibres 419 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,375 which didn't match the clothes that had been stored there. 420 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,775 Finding that tiny fragment of blood joined to a fibre of interest 421 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:02,855 was huge. 422 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,895 Almost something that you couldn't imagine would happen 423 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,295 other than in a drama. 424 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,335 Blood had never been found before, so it was a great eureka moment. 425 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:20,575 NARRATOR: It was the first blood evidence to be found in the case. 426 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,015 And it had been found in a bag... 427 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,855 containing the jacket from the suspect... 428 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,815 Gary Dobson. 429 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,455 NARRATOR: Forensic expert Dr Angela Gallop and her team 430 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,935 were working on the re-investigation 431 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,775 into the 1993 murder of teenager Stephen Lawrence. 432 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:54,095 Painstaking searches of two of the suspects' clothes 433 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,695 had found fibres from one of Stephen's tops, 434 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,055 suggesting the men may have been present at the attack. 435 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,615 Then, while searching for more fibres 436 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,095 in packaging containing evidence, 437 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:11,135 the scientists found something even more intriguing. 438 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,935 We came across a flake of blood, 439 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,415 running through which were two textile fibres. 440 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,935 Ancl looking at these two fibres, they were both of blue acrylic. 441 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,695 We immediately went and compared them with Stephen's clothing 442 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,375 and discovered that they matched the fibres constituting his cardigan, 443 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,495 he was wearing a blue acrylic cardigan at the time. 444 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,495 Ancl this flake of blood, 445 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,495 the packaging this had come from was from Gary Dobson's jacket. 446 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,335 NARRATOR: The blood flake was sent for a DNA test. 447 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:49,975 While waiting for the result, 448 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,295 the team continued its search of the clothes. 449 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,895 Finding a flake of blood like that in packaging, 450 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,495 we would expect to find the blood stain from which it originated 451 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,015 on the jacket itself. 452 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,775 Ancl so we went back to the jacket, 453 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,775 which had already been examined several times 454 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,495 by the original scientists, by us, probably more than once. 455 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,455 So we knew whatever the remains of this blood flake looked like, 456 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,575 it would be tiny. 457 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,895 So, I started to examine Dobson's jacket 458 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,055 in much more detail under the microscope. 459 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,735 And the tayimgs that we'd taken 460 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,855 gave us the areas to target very specifically. 461 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,535 Ancl so this was a bit of job to do, and particularly, in this case, 462 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,055 because this jacket was grey coloured, and the grey came about 463 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,375 because there were sort of two individual constituent fibres. 464 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,095 There were black fibres and white fibres, 465 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,295 and so together, to the naked eye, they looked grey, 466 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,255 but actually, under the microscope, they looked black or white. 467 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,295 Ancl so searching this jacket 468 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,535 was an absolute nightmare under the microscope 469 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,495 because your eyes were constantly adjusting 470 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,855 between the black fibres and the white fibres. 471 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,575 And so, it was... quite a tiring process to do. 472 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,535 This is painstaking, this is new, 473 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,775 they were not going to leave any fibre unlooked at. 474 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,135 And so, it was described to me as a process that would take weeks 475 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,375 going through every single stitch of a jacket 476 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,575 to see whether there was any blood on it. 477 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,535 It showed the thoroughness with which the forensic team worked. 478 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,935 NARRATOR: But the team's patience... 479 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,335 paid off. 480 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,775 I found a very tiny... What looked like a bloodstain 481 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,095 on the back of the collar of Dobson's jacket. 482 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:40,175 That spot of blood was miniscule, 483 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,895 and it could easily have been missed. 484 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,815 But the fact that the forensic team put that amount of time, 485 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,375 and the resources were put in, 486 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,855 indicates the strength and depth of that team and their commitment 487 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,055 in making sure that that evidence saw the light of day. 488 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,335 NARRATOR: If it was a bloodstain from the murder, 489 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,775 why was it on the inside back collar of the suspect's jacket? 490 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,895 It seemed an unusual place. 491 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,375 But Angela had studied the way blood is transferred 492 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,895 during a violent assault with a knife. 493 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,175 Being inside the back of the neck of the jacket 494 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,135 was not particularly surprising, 495 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,215 because that is the sort of place 496 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,655 that if you're going to get blood or tiny blood droplets 497 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,975 flicked off a knife that's been used to stab someone, 498 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,655 it may very often go down the back of clothing 499 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,935 because as the hand comes back from the first injury, 500 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,295 and it reaches the end of its trajectory, 501 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,055 there can be a little judder before it's brought forward again 502 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,255 for another... another blow. 503 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,935 Ancl that's the point at which tiny droplets of blood 504 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,575 can come off the knife blade 505 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,455 and then go onto the back of the perpetrators' clothing. 506 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,975 NARRATOR: As April and Angela waited for the DNA result on the blood, 507 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,255 their colleague, forensic hair expert Deb Hopwood, 508 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,735 was hard at work in another laboratory. 509 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,495 I was presented with what we call the retained material, 510 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,375 and these were in the form of tape lifts 511 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,895 that were taken during the original examination of the items. 512 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,135 Tape lifts taken during the re-examination 513 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,855 and also debris that had been collected along the way 514 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,135 from these examinations. 515 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,975 We examined over 600 hairs 516 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,815 in relation to the retained material from Stephen's clothing. 517 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,415 On the Norris and Dobson, 518 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,495 we were looking at about 1,500 hairs, 519 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,335 so it was a massive undertaking. 520 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,295 We noticed on Stephen's clothing 521 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,895 that there were quite a lot of short, cut hairs 522 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,175 of the type that you get when you've had a recent haircut. 523 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,815 Ancl so we were quite interested to see 524 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,735 whether any of these could have been transferred to the suspects. 525 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,375 When I looked at the retained materials from David Norris, 526 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:12,615 there were two short fragments of very deeply pigmented hair 527 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,575 that appeared to me 528 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:21,975 to be more like they could be Asian or Afro-Caribbean in origin. 529 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,255 Here, we potentially had some very significant evidence. 530 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,455 NARRATOR: Although tiny, one of these two hair fragments 531 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,735 appeared to hold a forensic secret. 532 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,975 One of them was approximately 2mm in length, 533 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,495 and the other was 1 mm. 534 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,415 And when I examined the 1 mm fragment 535 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,015 under high power microscopy 536 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,495 it appeared to have a tiny amount of blood 537 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,815 on the cut end. 538 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,415 But the blood and the hair fragment were just too tiny 539 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,215 to do anything further with. 540 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,335 NARRATOR: So Deb concentrated on the 2mm fragment of hair. 541 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:13,055 It could be large enough to identify who it belonged to. 542 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,495 But the fact that it was a piece of hair left over after a haircut, 543 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,455 meant there was a problem. 544 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,535 Because these hairs had been cut, 545 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,895 there was no root or any additional root material 546 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,735 that we might generate a DNA profile from. 547 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,775 And our only realistic hope 548 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,055 of getting any further information out of these hairs 549 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,095 was to forward them for mitochondrial sequencing. 550 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,375 NARRATOR: Mitochondrial DNA links only to a person's mother's side 551 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,575 but would still be important evidence. 552 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,415 The hair was sent to the United States 553 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,935 to be analysed in a specialist laboratory. 554 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,615 While the team waited for the result, 555 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,615 April Robson received a message. 556 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,815 The blood she had found on Gary Dobson's collar 557 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,615 had been tested... 558 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,775 and the result was back. 559 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,295 I remember quite vividly 560 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,975 when the reporting scientist came into the room 561 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,215 and asked me to follow him into a quiet room, 562 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,575 and he told me at that stage 563 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,095 that the DNA profile had come back as Stephen's. 564 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,135 I just remember quite a chilling feeling, 565 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,975 erm... because, although we thought it could have been from Stephen, 566 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,375 actually getting that, obtaining that DNA result 567 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:35,975 was extremely powerful. 568 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,935 I remember we had to check it, double-check it, 569 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,895 and probably triple-checked it 570 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,495 before we actually told the Senior Investigating Officer 571 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,095 about the result. 572 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,735 We passed on the message about the blood 573 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,255 to the Metropolitan Police, and in particular, to Clive Driscoll 574 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,175 who was the Senior Investigator. 575 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,975 At a very poignant moment, he just happened to be 576 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,655 in a memorial service to Stephen at the time. 577 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,855 NARRATOR: The result was confirmed 578 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,135 as the family marked the 15th anniversary of Stephen's death 579 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,415 with a church memorial service. 580 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,895 Clive Driscoll was looking at a photo of Stephen on the altar 581 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,935 when his phone rang. 582 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,735 I was actually looking down the aisle at Stephen, 583 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,295 when I was told that we'd just found Stephen's blood 584 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,815 on Gary Dobson's jacket. 585 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,855 The evidence of blood DNA is the best evidence you can get, really. 586 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,895 The finding of the blood on Gary Dobson's jacket 587 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,175 was a really critical moment in the whole re-investigation 588 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,215 cos here, for the first time in all these years, 589 00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:42,055 we had got blood that could have come from Stephen. 590 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:47,015 So, Stephen injured and Gary Dobson there at the time. 591 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,055 NARRATOR: There was now fibre evidence 592 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,855 against Gary Dobson and David Norris... 593 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,055 and Stephen's blood on Dobson's jacket. 594 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,055 But there was more to come. 595 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,615 Hair expert Deb Hopwood received a phone call 596 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,455 from the laboratory in America 597 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,975 which had been investigating the tiny piece of cut hair 598 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,015 she had found on Norris' clothes. 599 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,495 The hair... 600 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,775 was a match for Stephen's DNA. 601 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,335 And I have to say that was quite a moment 602 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,415 after almost three years' work 603 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,455 to find such a crucial piece of evidence. 604 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,735 I think the team went home happy that day. 605 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,655 So, now we have textile fibres 606 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,895 linking both Dobson and Norris to the attack. 607 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,215 We've also got some blood on Dobson, 608 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,415 erm... which could have come from Stephen, 609 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,535 and we've got a hair on Norris 610 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,975 which could have come from Stephen as well. 611 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,215 That showed that they were there at the time Stephen was attacked, 612 00:35:58,240 --> 00:35:59,615 and Stephen was murdered. 613 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,415 NARRATOR: The arrests of Norris and Dobson 614 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,135 turned up the pressure on the forensic team 615 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,735 to ensure their evidence was watertight. 616 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,655 They also had a hurdle to overcome... 617 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,255 Gary Dobson had already been acquitted of the murder 618 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,655 back in 1996. 619 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,855 Unless they could persuade a court, 620 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,455 he would not be allowed to stand trial for the same of fence again. 621 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,855 NARRATOR: Dr Angela Gallop and her forensic team 622 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,735 had gathered evidence in the cold case investigation 623 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,095 into the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence, 624 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,015 and two men had been arrested. 625 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,295 Things are never as simple as you imagine. 626 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,535 You think that's the end of it, but it isn't quite. 627 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,015 NARRATOR: One of the men, Gary Dobson, 628 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,495 had already been acquitted of the murder back in 1996. 629 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,735 He was protected by the law of double jeopardy, 630 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,055 which had stood for centuries. 631 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,415 Double jeopardy is a legal principle 632 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,775 which says that once you've been acquitted of a charge 633 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,975 you can never be charged with it again. 634 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,775 So, the state gets one shot at it - 635 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,335 you get prosecuted, 636 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,455 if you're acquitted, that's the end of it. 637 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:29,375 NARRATOR: But over the years, the case had had an impact on society 638 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,455 and played a major role in changing the law. 639 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,695 In 1997, a national newspaper, the Daily Mail, 640 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:41,735 had taken the unprecedented step of using its front page 641 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:47,495 to accuse five men, including Dobson and Norris, of being the murderers. 642 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,735 It was already high profile, but the Daily Mail, I would argue, 643 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,975 running that front page took it onto a whole new level 644 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,895 in terms of the profile of the case. 645 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,175 NARRATOR: The MacPherson Inquiry found that the police 646 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,655 had been institutionally racist 647 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,615 at the time of the original murder investigation. 648 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,535 It also recommended a change in the law of double jeopardy. 649 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,935 Macpherson's report put forward that 650 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:23,735 in order for the court to allow prosecution to go ahead 651 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,575 it must be satisfied that there is new and compelling evidence, 652 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,695 ie, that it could lead to the conviction. 653 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,095 We were very aware of all that as we were amassing our evidence, 654 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,575 when it reached the point where I think the police and the lawyers 655 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,055 were also happy that it represented new and compelling evidence. 656 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,255 Then that was the time that they considered 657 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,655 that they would have to get the acquittal overturned 658 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,055 to prepare for this new trial. 659 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,135 NARRATOR: The new forensic evidence against Dobson 660 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,615 was put before the Court of Appeal and the judges agreed 661 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,215 that his acquittal should be overturned. 662 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:07,695 There WAS enough evidence for him to be tried again 663 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,255 for Stephen's murder. 664 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,335 Here's the law, a principle of law that's been around for centuries, 665 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,735 not decades and months, that's been completely overturned. 666 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,375 NARRATOR: But bringing David Norris and Gary Dobson to justice 667 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,695 would depend on the accuracy of the forensics. 668 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:29,695 REPORTER: 'The two men accused of killing Stephen Lawrence 669 00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:32,135 'were brought to the Old Bailey...' 670 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,895 NARRATOR: Angela's team faced a massive task 671 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,535 to ensure they were ready 672 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,175 for one of the highest-profile criminal trials in history. 673 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,095 You might think that in this particular case 674 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,215 that we just had a few items of clothing from the suspect 675 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:50,055 and the clothing that Stephen was wearing on the night in question 676 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,615 and that was what we had to look at. 677 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:56,815 But actually, there was an enormous amount of material to look at. 678 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:01,215 We had 500 tubes of DNA extract. 679 00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:06,455 There were 250 pots of debris that we'd brushed off 680 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,095 or picked off, or in some way collected from all of the items 681 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,735 that we maker! at. And we transferred those 682 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,015 onto 700 tapings. 683 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,495 So an enormous amount of work was clone in this particular case. 684 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,935 I had to go in on a daily basis for many months 685 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,735 to check all 4,500 fibres. 686 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,495 It can take at least an hour to ensure that each fibre matches 687 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,055 or it doesn't match. 688 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,015 It's a long slog. 689 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,575 This one was probably 690 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,655 the highest-profile case in the country at the time, 691 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,655 so naturally you want to do a good job 692 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:57,055 and you want to make sure you've covered every avenue. 693 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,215 NARRATOR: It was hard work, but it paid off. 694 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,615 The forensic evidence was at the heart of the six-week trial. 695 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,215 And in January 2012, 696 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:20,535 a jury found Dobson and Norris guilty of Stephen's murder. 697 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,495 My memory is turning round and seeing two lovely people, 698 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,615 Baroness Lawrence now and Dr Lawrence, crying. 699 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,655 Ancl I can remember just feeling for them, 700 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:37,295 because this had been years, hadn't it? You know, for them. 701 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,575 It's the beginning, I think, of starting a new life, 702 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,775 because we've been in limbo for so long. 703 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,575 So today is where we can look to start moving on 704 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:51,895 and just, I don't know, try and get, take control of my life once more. 705 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,455 I can't ever feel elation 706 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,975 because I haven't brought Stephen back, have I? 707 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,655 I haven't brought Stephen back, that's what they would want. 708 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,935 You know, it was a feeling more of sadness 709 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,175 for Baroness Lawrence and Neville Lawrence 710 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,055 because how much they'd suffered. 711 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,695 NARRATOR: David Norris and Gary Dobson received life sentences 712 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:21,975 for the murder of Stephen Lawrence. 713 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,615 But the other members of the gang who set upon Stephen that night... 714 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,055 remain free. 715 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,615 Yes, there was a sense of, well, what about the others? 716 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,015 But none of us were, certainly Doreen wasn't, 717 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,495 complaining about that. 718 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,775 Ancl I think the way that Clive Driscoll put it, 719 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,975 "Two down, the rest to go." 720 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,095 So it wasn't about just leaving it. 721 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,815 In terms of getting justice for Stephen and his family, 722 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,015 this forensic evidence was absolutely crucial, 723 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,135 absolutely crucial. 724 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,175 Without the forensic evidence, 725 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,935 there would not have been a prosecution in this case, 726 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,375 a conviction in this case. 727 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,095 You can't put too much emphasis on that. 728 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,335 Ancl so what Angela did in getting that material, 729 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,015 putting it in a way that was presentable to the jury, 730 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,815 finding it in the first place, 731 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,495 using the new techniques to obtain it, 732 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,375 that's what led to the prosecution. That's what gave Doreen justice. 733 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,695 The hope I take forward from this case is that 734 00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:33,015 we're just treated equally 735 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,455 and equal resources are given to each case 736 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,855 and they're all investigated on their merits. 737 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:49,735 Angela Gallop and Clive Driscoll were quite a dynamic duo, 738 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,815 pretty unique, to be honest. 739 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,015 Ancl to be fair, I think Angela had a pretty damn good team 740 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:57,735 of scientists around her. 741 00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,055 Here's Young Stephen. 742 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,295 1974. 743 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,015 I always refer to him as "Young Stephen". 744 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,415 And they say, "Well, he'd be 40-odd now, wouldn't he?" 745 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,055 I suppose he would be now, yeah. 746 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,415 That's how much life he's actually lost. 747 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,775 We didn't give up. 748 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:21,255 We kept looking even if everybody else had failed. 749 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,655 We had to work to our highest ability 750 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:30,895 to try to bring some justice for this bereaved family 751 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:37,375 and to be a part of the team that was able to do that 752 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,095 was just quite incredible. 753 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,175 We lost a nice young man from our society and for me, 754 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,695 I thank the Lawrence family ancl thank Stephen's name 755 00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:55,575 for the advancements and how we've become better. 756 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,535 Ancl we could be better still, but I think that his legacy 757 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,655 will be that we became better. 758 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,735 Over the years, I have been very impressed by the Lawrence family 759 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,895 and how they've made every single effort 760 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,375 to persuade and cajole and basically do everything they could, 761 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,415 everything in their power to make sure that the case 762 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,335 was properly investigated, at the end of the clay. 763 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,575 Ancl so it was a lot of work, but then in the end, 764 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,095 a lot of evidence and most importantly, 765 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:36,415 it resulted in at least some sort of closure for Stephen's family 766 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,975 and some justice for Stephen himself. 767 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,055 So I think it was a really important piece of work we did. 768 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:47,175 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 65452

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