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Almost all of the things that happened

to one of us happened to all of us.

- When I was young, my idea of making it was you know,

to find a husband, get married and have kids

and have a house.

- It's a little bit a combination of, talent, charisma,

knowing how to put up a show.

Knowing how to handle your instrument and being unique.

- Music is energy.

Whatever you give comes back to you, in life,

but also in music and on stage.

It's true.

- I've had to work for many years just to not be seen

as something that should be naked by now.

- I have sold my heart to metal a very long time ago,

and I will, I will defend it forever.

- I think it's as hard for a man as it is for a woman

to survive in this business.

- Is this a metal show or what, you know?

- I never cared about the opinions of others,

as soon as I climb on a stage I'm someone else.

When I was a kid I didn't think about music.

I wanted to become a biologist.

I didn't know exactly what it was, but I loved nature

and I loved animals.

I learned all the solentific names for animals

and rescued animals and cleaned out the environment

from trash, and I was a kid like that,

and singing and performing was far, far away from me,

'cause I was super shy, the teased kid.

Just the thought of, you know, being in the spotlight

was back in the days really something I didn't want.

It's very common here in the Netherlands

that the children learn to play an instrument.

And you all start with the same flute,

like a wooden little flute, just to learn

the basics of music and learn how to read the notes.

- I played, like the normal flute, the blokfluit,

and the querflote it's also the flute.

Like this and this.

- I changed from this position to this position

and did that about seven or eight years.

- But I actually studied classical flute back then.

I do nothing with it anymore.

- I was actually studying like the coolest

metal instrument ever, the clarinet when I was a kid.

- I mean I grew up just like singing along with

like Disney movies and stuff,

so I mean I could sing like a Princess I guess.

- I had a old, crooked guitar from my uncle, my uncle Harry,

and I learned some chords on the guitar,

so I started writing songs.

- Then I discovered my old, the old guitar of my father,

old acoustic guitar, and put new strings on it

and learned to play some chords with him.

And I think after I learned to play the first three chords

I tried to write a song.

- In school I was always like immediately in school chorr,

and the school bands, and I did all those shows

where you could win prizes, and you know.

So I was on stage when I was like about 11 or 12

andllovedit

- in the last year we always have a school musical,

and unfortunately only the popular kids got the main,

you know, bigger parts in it, the bigger roles.

And I was, I loved it from the beginning,

but I was not a popular kid, so I just got, you know,

put away in the back a little bit.

Nevertheless I loved it so much.

And then high school came and there was this

high school musical that they were going to do.

So I signed up for that and this one actually had auditions.

- I auditioned to sing a part for Marilyn Monroe, and

there was another girl and she was following acting classes.

So she put up this great act, couldn't really sing,

but she was very entertaining to watch, and I was standing

there like a fridge, super nervous singing this song.

- I did the audition, and I got one of the bigger roles

as narrator in the story of Joseph and the amazing

technicolor dreamcoat from Andrew Lloyd weber.

- And she liked my voice so much they wrote a extra part

for the musical just so that I could sing a song,

and that was “all at once” from Whitney Houston.

And I sang it horribly.

I don't wanna ever see that again.

- I really enjoyed the singing,

and when finally the show came I was hooked.

And after that I joined the school band.

And after we moved I found a new band in the place where

I lived back then and that was after forever.

- But she sparked a flame in me.

She told me, you should get singing lessons.

So at the age of 14 I got like jazz, pop singing lessons.

- I never thought of becoming a professional singer

until I visited the conservatory.

That was during my high school days.

A lot of students make trips to, you know,

educations to see if I would fit or not.

- I didn't go to a conservatory,

but I did have like six years of private singing lessons.

- Then, the rock academie came,

which started in '99 here in the Netherlands.

It was a whole new education sort of like the conservatory

but then for pop and rock musicians

and that was perfect for me.

- I had my first records out.

And after the third record, people said,

well, are you a trained singer?

Did you study it?

And I said no.

Got on my nerves and I thought, man, you know,

I don't like when people you know look down on me

because I didn't study it.

So I took vocal lessons.

- I had 2 years of singing lessons as a kid.

- Yeah, I started when I was eight,

and I loved it and I did it until I was about 15.

- I was a student who really wanted to learn a lot.

Every time I learned something I saw how much more

there was to learn and I didn't find a teacher

on the rock academie that could trigger me into wanting

even more, I just ran into their boundaries all the time.

- I would get a lot of comments from my teachers saying,

I would quit that band of yours and you know, go search for

a choir because who wouldn't like a nice soprano like you?

- Then after a couple of years the same people said,

hey doro, can't you sing like you sang before?

- It started really dwindling you know,

as I was starting to turn into a young adult.

- So I ended up with a teacher on the conservatory,

with whom I've later continued my studies in music theatre

and opera after my graduation from rock academie

just because he could trigger me

into doing new things, different things.

- When I was 14 I think I started singing,

did that for 14 years I think and I did everything

from classical to jazz to pop to anything.

And I find out that the technical side was, I like that,

you know to develop technically.

- I had very short training and I actually quit because

I didn't like this element of it which really it wasn't

all about teaching technique

but it was also about teaching aesthetics.

And I always felt rather,

I like to kind of decide on my own aesthetics.

- Yeah, then heavy metal made its way into my life

and changed everything.

- I was mainly listening to bands like pantera

nr ll

- within temptation and after forever.

- After forever.

- Within temptation, after forever.

- Slayer, metallica

- mystic circle, dimmu borgir,

cradle of filth, old mans child.

- Moonspell or amorphis.

- In flames.

- Some nightwish.

- Celestial season.

- Tristania.

- System of a down.

- Saxon and maiden and priest and motorhead.

- My dying bride.

- Lacuna coil.

- Yeah, then radiohead's my favorite band ever.

- But the guys were listening to in flames,

and to bands like dimmu borgir.

- Another important one was orphanage,

- the gathering

- the gathering

- the gathering

- yeah, the combination of a powerful female voice

with metal was for me in the gathering the first time.

I would go this is really, really cool.

Fl the frost hits me in the eye

d and wakes me up fl

I also met them backstage.

I was one of those, you know, really scared 16 year olds,

like oh, I'm gonna meet the band backstage.

D and wakes me up fl

that's so funny, I can't even remember.

Especially because I became friends with anneke,

with the singer, because, you know,

the world is such a small place.

Fl when the sun comes

fl I break it with my shadow

fl which tells me where I go fl

Yeah, there were some weird bands

I never really got to follow.

I just bought some cds that looked cool,

because you're 15 and you have no idea.

Yeah, different perspective, it's good to remember.

- My first encounters with metal

were with doom metal for instance.

And that's very emotional, very melancholic,

very dramatic, and that really spoke to me.

And when I figured out that there were women

who were involved in this kind of music, I was like,

okay, you're allowed to do this as a woman.

You know there is a possibility to make heavy music.

- I guess I became interested in women,

you know, singing metal as well.

I listened to theater of tragedy and sins of thy beloved

to figure out that was not my type of singing

since I've always loved power voices.

And anneke Van giersbergen the singer of the gathering

has a more powerful voice.

- And, but I also listened to a lot of black music,

like aretha Franklin, and Michael Jackson, and Diana Ross,

Marvin gaye, mahalia Jackson, my mother had a record of her.

I love Ella Fitzgerald.

I love that.

And so what all these guys have in common,

is that they are like, proper singers.

Like they're very technical skilled singers,

they make like long notes and they have lots of energy

in their performance, in their voice,

and the power of their voice.

I always loved that, I always loved it.

- All the, let's say the instrumental parts of metal

all bring every song to a certain climax

or it's just one big climax

You know heavy stuff.

- I love 'cause it has like a very, it has a very

like romantic atmosphere almost,

because of the darkness in it.

Not like romantic candlelight dinner.

But you know?

Like, they have something you want to be there.

When they play, you get sucked into the mood.

- It allows for everything like including emotions

and sounds to be kind of larger than life.

- I like the extra drama that is permitted in metal.

- Not necessarily drama as bombastic, symphonic something,

but more like that passion, that melancholy.

- That also the singers bring in power.

Nice interpretation, powerful feelings, and also power

in their sound to emphasize the power

and the heaviness of the music.

- So it's more that quality of you know of the dramatic

and the larger than life and of the even the aggressive

sometimes that really, really spoke to me.

- For me I just really loved the aggressiveness of metal.

It's sorta like I mean, if you take the aggression of punk

and then you make it like a thousand times angrier

and darker but then you're also allowed to have like

beautiful melody in there, you know, like metal is so open

in a way that you can kind of do anything you want

and it's acceptable and I can't really think of many other

genres of music where you have that much freedom.

- It's a bit more intricate than the stuff you hear

on the top 40 and so, and that appealed to me.

I could dive in, properly dive into a song or in a band,

you know, 'cause they all have stories and they,

you know, and they had something to say also,

about politics about themselves, about their feelings,

about social issues so, yeah.

- The most important thing for me has always been the music,

and in metal I can just do what I like most.

- When I started out, I didn't really have any major goals

in music, I was like, well this is cool,

let's just see how this goes.

Then once I you know, got signed to a label and started

having my cd's being recognized and people coming

to the shows and knowing the name of my band,

it sort of started becoming, okay I want everybody

to know the name of my band so that I can keep doing this

and make more music.

And I was satisfied with just like, if I can just like work

a job to be able to survive and do my band that's fine.

- This is what we like.

We never make the music just to become

as big as Michael Jackson.

- You can become a very big metal artist and tour

the world and tour it again, and that's big enough for me.

I don't need to become the next pink, or Madonna,

or you know, Skunk Anansie.

- But now it's getting to the point where, well okay,

I don't have another job so I need to do my band

to be able to survive.

And honestly, I think that my goal or like the peak for me

is just I wanna be able to live a happy life

doing something that makes me happy.

- Yeah, big like pantera or big like metallica.

Why not?

I mean, that's the limits I guess, within metal.

But that's huge.

That's fine.

I wouldn't be unhappy if I wouldn't,

you know, reach that level.

- I don't have to be rich.

Like I said, I have my cats, I have a roof over my head,

I'm fine, but no, yeah.

- Making music with arch enemy makes me happy and playing

shows and writing songs and recording albums makes me happy.

So, if I can live comfortably doing that,

then that's good enough for me.

You know I don't need to live in a big house

or drive a fancy car or have a car at all.

You know, I don't need you know, expensive clothing.

Like I'm actually, I actually hate materialistic things,

I have no interest in it whatsoever.

- The music and making the music you like is the biggest

ambition to be privileged, I'd be privileged,

feel privileged to be able to do that.

That is more important than becoming super famous.

- We make this music because we want to do it

or our heart tells us to do it and we're good in it.

Fl so mirror what is it you see today

d a reflection yes, magically looking like mine fl

so there's no reason to change to a more commercial style.

Fl the chameleon fl

- metal, is technical and musical music.

It's well written, you have to be a good player

to be playing in a good metal band.

If there's one thing I've seen a lot of people that don't

listen to metal regularly but do like music or are musicians

but not familiar with the genre, what they've been noticing

is that very often you have to be a very good musician

to do this well.

You have to be technically good and it's not just fast.

And to write a good metal song

you need to be a good songwriter.

It's not just violence and noise.

Some people just assume, oh, metal is just noise.

Really?

Try to make it.

- Metal is the new opera.

When opera came out most people said it was horrible,

this new technique of the voice, it was terrible.

And nowadays everybody loves it, like oh yeah, beautiful.

But I think the same is with metal, if you don't know

it really well and you just hear the noise then of course

people say oh it's awful, it's no music,

it's just some shit.

But the people who do know it and do like it

they know it is technically very advanced and really good.

Fl no time should ever go to waste

fl it's not that complicated

fl you're free to live your life at ease

d no more restraints fl

- classical music in general correlates amazingly well with

metal, especially because of the intricacies

and how melodic it is and how it tells a story.

The way it comes back to sections.

I think it's like, the beginning of heavy metal.

Fl you'll never give up hope

fl when all we do is run around in circles fl

- I used to write acoustic songs,

little singer songwriting kind of thing.

Take my guitar with me to parties and sing.

People would always ask me to.

There was this one particular birthday party of a friend,

and this guy came to me and said hey,

I know this metal band, I heard you like metal as well,

and they're looking for this background singer.

- We had a grunter, a front man that was a guy,

he later on he left the band.

And when she showed up we heard she was so good that,

that wasn't just a background singer.

D I feel more pain fl

- so just by saying I like metal and, you know,

how would it be to sing in one,

it kind of came together like that.

- I remember that I did a performance in school

and I sang one Aria, and that was it.

The next day I had two texts from numbers

that I didn't know.

Thank you anaheim!

One was from a project in town,

and one was from to elysium.

And they said our singer quit, can you fill in for her?

So it basically took one performance

of singing really high-pitched and I was in those bands.

D a world beyond your sleep

fl beyond what's real

d and in safety hidden sphere

fl away from our daily reality

fl truth lies out there fl

- but I didn't particularly search for a woman.

If she would have had a good voice, and she felt the music

and if she would not have been able to write the lyrics

for it, we would not have been a female fronted band.

- Some things have to be the way they are.

- If there's one thing I'm really happy about

is that no one had cell phones yet

during the first after forever show with me.

I was listening to death metal at the time

and I had a t-shirt from vader, it's this Polish metal band,

and it was slightly too small for me, and I painted my hair

black, pitch black, made me look I look like I just died.

I didn't know what to do with makeup all that well yet,

and I for sure didn't know what to do on stage.

I think that was still in my background position that

you know, we still had the grunting singer as the main man.

And so I would get up every time I had to sing,

and when I was done with singing I would sit down

on a speaker or something and waited until I could,

you know, get back on my feet.

- My first show with arch enemy.

So this is a big deal for me right?

This is my first time I'm gonna be

playing the songs that I wrote for arch enemy

and the old songs that I've loved for years.

So, our bus breaks down on the way to that show, twice.

The second time, the air conditioning breaks down

and we're in like Turkey, we're going like through

Turkey and like in Romania, and so it's boiling hot.

So we're just drenched in sweat,

like we can't even move, it's super hot.

Plus the drive to get there was 24 straight hours.

So we're in this boiling sauna for 24 hours.

So then we get there, but because the driver was crazy,

we got there about six hours late and so we got there

like half an hour before I had to get onstage.

So I went from being like, in this enclosed vehicle

with no air, boiling hot, for 24 hours straight

to half an hour to get on stage and do like,

probably the most important show of your life.

- In my recollection there was no show between that show

and another show at exactly the same place,

maybe a year later.

I changed from background position, or at least oh my god

this is scary position to okay, now I'm the front lady

I should wear something nice and now you know.

I still didn't know exactly what to do of course,

but I got my, I got a dress from my mom.

I was so proud of it, she used to wear it.

I wore it at that show.

I didn't know it showed through a little bit

so you could see my underwear.

But at that time I didn't know fortunately,

I just thought I looked really pretty, and I had a little

more, yeah, feeling of security there,

and that was my first front a metal band kind of thing.

I already did a lot of headbanging,

which is funny 'cause now I know a lot of people know me

because of the windmill stuff that I do with my head.

I still love to do it.

It's still part of the whole metal

vibe or something, but yeah.

First show I absolutely was way too shy for all of that.

Makeup is the best part.

Trust me.

Nothing is as fun as putting on makeup before a show.

It didn't grow on me very natural what to wear,

what kind of makeup to use, how to use it.

I really had to grow into that role

and really had to learn from other people.

- This goes for men and women but I think this

is a certain challenge which is yeah,

which is a serious challenge for women.

I think women have to put a lot more thought into okay,

so what is my image going to be, what is going to be

the unspoken messages behind the way that I dress,

behind the way that I do my face.

- What do you want to show with your clothes.

The metal and the female side.

The big gothic thing that's been going on for so many years

that I try to kind of push away, like no,

it's not gothic it's metal, you know.

What is the difference, how do you visualize that.

So I really learned there.

I have to thank Simone from epica

for that she really helped me there.

- You listen to the music, you're listening

to emotions, thoughts, experiences.

And you feel with your, you're like looking with your ears.

But when you are on stage, I find it important to dress up

yourself as much as the stage with decoration,

with backdrops, with nice lighting.

It's part of the visual.

- Yeah, but it is always a balance.

With some of the real hard stuff and I'm standing there

in my short dress or if I wear a shorter skirt I'm like,

does this fit, you know, is this not a bit weird.

At the same time I love, actually love jeans

or good leather pants on stage.

Fl leisurely we decline fl

but if you do a ballad or something more melodic

it doesn't fit.

So you need to find a balance indeed between the metal

and the, you know, looking cool part and the feminine more,

yeah, rounder, melodic nicer element.

Fl try to learn from yesterday fl

I know that from other colleagues in this genre,

female colleagues, that it's always been

a bigger challenge for us than for male colleagues.

Male colleagues also look for the good looks,

but somehow it's easier for them.

- There are some men that do have to take care to you know,

present themselves for stage

and then there are some women that don't care.

So for example, Doyle, he has a look that's very

recognizable and iconic and so, if he was to go on stage

without that look, it wouldn't be the same show

for a lot of people and it might seem silly because

it's just like, hairstyle and makeup and working out every

fuckin' day but it's actually important

and that's what makes a good show.

- Luckily our guys also have all a good face,

even though we've all aged.

So we've become older

and you present yourself in a different way.

You see things in a different light, but I find it important

to make the visual as nice also as the music.

- The objectification in general

goes for men as well as women.

I mean, in Dutch we say the eye also wants something.

So you can be a good musician, but you know.

- There is a certain amount of bullshit that women

do have to take just because we're women.

- I have found myself in serious fights over things

that might seem trivial to other people you know,

like the few inches that they photoshopped off my thighs.

I would get infuriated because this for me

is playing along with that circus.

That circus that teaches people that they should look

a certain way and not differently.

And I think will my music sound any different

if my thighs are.

- I've never felt exceptional because I'm a woman.

I've never felt I'm getting more privileges because of it.

I've never used my sexualism to get any benefits.

And I actually find it very annoying that a lot of people

try to emphasize the difference between females in metal,

you know, towards men.

Yeah sure there are differences yeah, yeah, yeah, plenty.

But by emphasizing it you'll never get to this level

and especially, I think ladies do it just as much as men do.

Hey, I've been in a metal band for 14 years.

Doro is celebrating her 35th anniversary.

Women in metal is not a new concept.

And we learned how to be ourselves in a group of men,

like maybe girls do in the army,

or other types of work where there are more men than women.

- The fact of the matter is, you're still female

to the rest of the world, you know, and that means that

you're a target for certain things to the rest of the world.

Even if you're wearing a snow suit, not showing any skin

with no makeup, shave your head,

you're still gonna be told to take off your clothes

because you're a girl.

- I do say that if you are one to know, to you know follow

whatever your higher manager or your a&r person or your,

and once again, this is not name-calling this is just

from experience from working with a lot of different people.

If you're going to do what those people want you to do

you'll probably be wearing push-up bras your entire life.

And not much more might I add.

- My roommate is a great example.

Justine from blackguard, okay, she seriously

works harder than most men I know in the scene.

She plays drums better than, I think 99°/o

of any drummer I've seen in any band.

She loads all her own stuff, she takes apart her kit,

she puts it back together, she helps the other bands

put their kits together.

But then she'll still get, oh are you the merch girl?

Or oh, who's girlfriend are you?

- There was this cover some time ago of a magazme,

a French magazine I don't know what exactly it was

but there were singers of, female singers of metal bands

on the cover and they were together

and they were painted as the last supper.

But we all got accessories.

And you know some of us were undressed painted

and you know, we got pasties on our boobs.

I was, I had the pleasure of being completely naked

with a pile of cocaine in front of me.

And there were a lot of girls who were outraged about that.

And there were some girls who said,

you girls don't have a sense of humor.

And these girls who said, you don't have a sense of humor

these are the girls that also made the statements like,

I'm just one of the guys, and it's kind of like

don't make an issue out of this gender thing.

And I was really stuck in between.

Because I do have a sense of humor, then again I would have

appreciated the guy asking whether he could paint me

naked in front of a mountain of cocaine

to be on the cover of a magazine.

You know?

- In the 80s, it was like you had to be careful

about not showing too much skin.

Otherwise you would be in that corner,

it was my first show on the Judas priest tour

back in the day, and I had brand new stage clothes on,

and they were done like especially for me,

like really nice and tight and stuff.

So I had a beautiful top on and then I was headbanging

and jumping up and down

and then I was pushing my fist in the air.

Then my bass player, he came up,

he said, doro look at yourself.

And then I said what?

And then I look down and my top, it broke.

It was just like just like yeah!

And I thought, oh my god.

It was just like a couple of seconds and then I turned

around in maybe 10 seconds and you know I just like

I tried to you know put it back together.

I came to america, my first trip there,

I walked into a record store and they said,

oh can you sign that nice poster?

And I said sure, sure.

And then I opened it up I think it was kerrang magazine

or something and it was the big poster

of me with nothing on, just the breast.

I thought oh, and I thought no way man.

I wanted to be taken seriously for our nice metal

and not for that.

- I can imagine you use your sexuality.

But to sell sex just to get famous,

it happens on all levels and maybe you're just

compromising for a lack of other talents.

That's always what I think when I see it.

- If a woman feels like I wanna be naked and fuck you

because I'm doing this for me, cool, do it.

But then, on the other side, it's like well, I've had to

work for like, many years just to not be seen as something

that should be naked by now, you know.

And when I see other women sort of really pushing their

bodies, it's sort of honestly, it usually bothers me

at first because I'm like,

no, we're fighting against that.

Like, make them listen instead of look.

- I think it's demeaning.

But like I say, it's only my opinion it doesn't mean

it's true maybe it's a very, very good singer who just likes

to do that or says, hey for the heck of it

I do want to get famous and I don't care how.

Fair enough.

I don't want to judge it.

But at least as far as I'm concerned

looking good, looking appealing, sure.

But selling sex just to get there, I don't know.

Whether it's metal or not, it's demeaning for women.

We don't need that, come on.

- Although that is a tool you can use to control people,

because you can basically just be like,

boobs, buy this magazine.

Oh, okay, whoa, I have this magazine in my hand,

how'd that happen?

You know.

As much as that's cool, because you're actually using

your sexuality to control others, just be careful because

that sexuality that you put out there

is something that's always going to be identified with you.

- For a lot of people, needless to say,

music is a really personal thing.

And you make a very personal thing a product,

because, you know, it's a cd people can buy it,

it's a product.

If you make that very personal thing a product

it's very easy to, and of course then

you sell images of yourself as well.

Then it's very hard to even keep from objectifying yourself.

This is, actually I just recently like three weeks ago

I got this tattoo, and it's my first tattoo.

Congratulations.

- Thank you.

And I was very, very proud of it.

And I thought, shall I put it on the Internet?

Shall I put a photo on it, on you know, my Facebook page?

And I think for the first time, I thought,

this is something that is for me, and I know that with,

you know, whatever, the people are probably just going

to judge it as if I was putting out a song,

or whatever, you know.

And I thought, no, this is not,

this is something which is for me.

And it's, sometimes it's actually hard to make this

distinction when, yeah, when people are buying not only

into the music, but into the band itself so much.

You know, at one point people are

not judging your music anymore.

They're not judging your photo anymore.

They're not judging your ass anymore.

They're judging you.

And this is something that within the whole process

sometimes is tricky shit, yeah.

- Ten to 15 years ago it was a relatively new phenomena,

late 90's more ladies fronting metal bands.

Of course it's not an entirely new thing.

But there was a different type of music attached to it,

a different vibe to it like compared to the earlier

and more of the heavy metal genre.

And more and more bands came and maybe had a bit

of the same sound in the beginning.

First it was called gothic metal,

a name I didn't understand either.

- I like female fronted metal a lot more than gothic metal

for, to start.

I don't know if that's something that's very used

in america, but in Europe you hear that a lot.

And that I think, doesn't say anything

about the music at all.

- That's outdated.

Female fronted metal nowadays there are so many metal bands

with female singers that it sounds weird saying

you don't say that when a guy is singing.

- Yeah a lot of people like this kind of typecasting

where everything is about gender and everything is about,

how super special that is.

- So why a male fronted band can be called

symphonic metal, death metal, black metal.

But a band with a female singer

is always female fronted metal.

- For instance, when you want to, when you want to try

to get booked on a festival, and they say like,

oh but we've already got a female fronted metal band.

I'm like, yeah okay, well you have a lot of male

fronted metal bands so that shouldn't be really a problem.

I think if we would focus more on the music itself

than on the gender of people on stage,

that would be the best thing to do.

- Like, I don't regard my gender my identity.

Like, there's a whole lot more to it.

- Yeah, epica's a metal band,

we're not a female-fronted metal band.

We got Mark who's also singing.

And like I said, I can burp like a man so.

- Maybe the origins of metal is a bit more male dominated

than it is today and that means that it still is

I don't think that's a bad thing.

But it's not that special anymore that there are ladies

in bands, and to call the entire band a female fronted band

or the music they make female fronted music,

that I think has nothing to do with how it sounds

and that would not happen in other genres.

Fl true hearts

fl true pain fl

- you know, girls generally don't wanna be gross and dirty

and sometimes guys are okay with that you know.

Like, we kinda wanna take showers, we kinda have to like

put on makeup sometimes and we wanna like, have some privacy

to change our clothes and you know, little things like that

that you don't necessarily think about.

But they are an issue because you're in a band of people

together all the time, in a Van or in a backstage

or in a bus or wherever.

Like it's different you know.

We're a different species almost.

We need different things.

Fl fair minds, fair thoughts fl

- in a certain way I do feel very connected and very similar

to the guys, but at the same time I recognize our

differences, and I don't find it necessary

to emphasize it any more.

Like in a normal relationship between men and women,

there is always a little tension, a little game of you know,

there's always a difference, but that's fine

and you just learn how to deal with that.

- I was always one of the guys and no big deal.

When people want to degrade you to just being a woman,

that sometimes makes me you know like,

makes me laugh actually.

On the other hand, now we're touring all over the world

and we tour in many, many different countries

where you can definitely feel, man there's a lot of stuff

going on that women are totally not equal to men.

In some countries, you can really see that

and in some countries I couldn't even go and perform.

I hope, I hope that would change, but yes.

Fl you breath in loudly

fl the ceiling dances

fl your hands are moving

fl numb all my senses

fl I cannot sleep

fl I cannot sleep

fl I cannot sleep fl

- I myself started as a teenager in metal.

It was not necessarily to rebel against my parents but

at the same time I can't imagine at that time

it was not exactly something they said,

yay my daughter is singing in a metal band.

- I don't think that they mind that it's metal.

My parents, I mean, they didn't listen to metal,

but at least they listened to, you know, pink Floyd,

you know, music that you actually have to listen to,

as is metal.

- They've always helped me whenever they can,

and they've supported me and my sister

who is also in the entertainment business.

- To have them support me and believe in me and let me be

who I am has made a huge difference and impact.

- I think it's also a bit up to yourself as a musician

to involve people into your world.

Once they see that it's not just noise

and satanic dramas and backstages.

- I mean, they come to the gigs

when we have gigs near them and yeah.

Yeah I think they're as cool as you can be as parents

about you know, your kids pursumg a career in music.

- Sure not every parent has been or is equally supportive,

I'm very fortunate with mine.

They gave me the freedom to make my own choices

and to make my own mistakes for that matter.

- I remember my parents they came to one concert

when we played with Judas priest,

and they were like you know, dressed like you know

all conservative, like mom and dad.

And then all these headbangers with long hair

and their jeans, denim vests with all the patches

and then they said, hey what are you guys doing here?

And then my dad said, that's my daughter.

And all the fans are like, oh really?

And then you know, and then they had the best time.

- I wonder how dads look at their daughters

when they do that stuff.

Like, yeah, my daughter growls now, you know.

- My parents weren't so happy with my decision

of quitting high school, because they thought singing

in a band would be a phase, like many teens go through

different phases and they thought oh, she might

not be happy with her decision one day,

and parents like to guide you.

And yeah, they were shocked at first, but supportive.

They came to the shows.

And then through the years they saw epica became successful,

and that you can make a living with being in a band

and it's not just something you do for fun,

but that it's a real profession, and that there is a way

to sup, yeah support yourself in,

while being a musician in the metal scene.

Fl the steel may Pierce my arm

fl the battle rages on

fl through my veins rushes insidious conflict

d if I survive my fate an emptiness awaits

fl leading me hollow and tempted by death

fl oh I will find a way

fl to live another day

fl woah, pray for the sunrise

fl battle of souls burning the sky

fl woah, angel of mercy

fl breathe in the gloom that clouds my eyes fl

- After forever just stopped and at the same time

the first economical crisis started.

There was no work for me as a singer where I had tons

of projects in the summer before,

there was nothing going to happen.

And, um.

Yeah, so I had a lot of time and I was just you know,

using money I made before while I had time to work.

Not as a musician but I didn't want to spend my money

on doing nothing and feeling sorry for myself.

So I did start revamp, but I also started working

in a lingerie store for a couple of months.

- I have done dishes, but I have done dishes

in the most fancy restaurant of the Netherlands.

I have done data entry for a year.

- I had a real job up until like, less than a year ago.

I worked, I started working when I was like 11 years old

actually, but not at like a nine to five.

I started working doing art.

So, I would do commissioned artwork.

Paintings, big murals, stuff like that.

- I was basically pressing enter and falling asleep.

- I have a job as an it specialist.

I do that four days a week, and I think it would take

a lot of good luck to earn that salary from the metal music.

But it's, I've seen different approaches

from musician friends that I have.

You either, you know, get another kind of job,

or do some other kind of thing, and you make your money

with it and then you do exactly what you want with music.

This is what I do.

And you have people that only want to do music,

so they do what they want, and they teach,

and they maybe do some other kind of session work and stuff

that is not necessarily exactly what you want to do.

But then you get your week full, you pay your bills,

it's all great.

- I started working as a teacher in two different schools.

It wasn't bad to do I actually enjoyed it and it was funny

to see during my works there I started to get some more

work, I got some more students and was writing

for the first revamp album so I was busy enough.

It makes you humble, if you always have just peaks

you might just take things for granted faster.

I've always seen it that way.

If things go bad for a while well then, that's just it,

it's just a matter of how you deal with it

and if you work hard you'll get back on your feet.

- There's lucky ones that have reached that level

where they can make money out of exactly the music

that they want to make, and that's great.

This is something I would like to do.

Fl pull me through this endless night

Fl there's a ghost by the door

fl there's a memory that won't let me go

fl will you please set me free

d from the burden that won't let me sleep fl

hey everyone, this is marcela from stream of passion.

I'm doing this video actually on request of my friend

grace meridan, who wanted to learn more about

the lax vox technique.

A technique that helps you relax your vocal chords

and help you sing in a more open way.

And since I thought maybe some singers out there

could be interested in it, then I'm just going to

put it on YouTube, and you can all take a look

and maybe work with this technique because it's amazing.

I'm a bit of a vocal nerd.

And I really enjoy knowing how everything works.

And it gives me a lot of pleasure to have that moment

where you think, like, right.

So when they're, 'cause singing lessons

can be very abstract you know.

They can tell you like, sing more like to the front

of you know, like sing more towards your face.

Basically you blow into the tube,

as if you were making an oh sound.

And you blow like this, and you make bubbles.

When it clicks, when you figure out how something works

and clicks, and then you understand it and then you master

it and then you can use it however you want,

that's such an incredibly nice feeling.

- By teaching others you stay in touch with vocal technique.

You're very aware of what you are doing

because you want to explain it to someone else.

I'll do a little example, just a little singing.

We are perfectly good in that mic.

- Alright.

You stay in touch with vocal techniques

as they evolve, rapidly.

The difference between when I started to study

and now is quite big, and that's good

so I'd like to stay in touch with that.

And teaching other people things I know a lot about,

technique geek as I am, has always, you know, satisfied me.

If you always sing very nice and sweet and light,

this is like a head voice sound.

It has a bit of a sweet sound.

So if you want to have a rocky vibe,

you're not going to go for this voice.

Fl you go for that one fl

there's a lot of different sounds you know,

you can use as an effect, within the rock sound as well,

or the lighter poppy sound.

You'll hear the R&B singers do a lot of those things.

You can, you can make every vocal type really raw

by the way, but you do need to know what you're doing.

With grunts, you're actually not using your vocal chords,

or barely, you're using your false vocal chords.

But just the false vocal chords.

Fl will sound like this fl

a bit raw, rough.

They're bigger, and less coordinate, coordinated

as the actual vocal chords.

And when they vibrate.

That's how it sounds.

I've always focused on singing as clean as possible.

High, low, lower, even higher, you know, very soft,

very high but everything always clean

Fl but what's the truth

fl I don't seem angelic

fl seduction's a mind trick

fl and I'm quite a player fl

then I tried to use it in different genres.

And then I discovered especially during the live shows,

that this little raw edge was coming off.

Not because I was doing something wrong,

but just because it grew that way and it felt right.

So I tried to figure out how do I actually do that.

- I think every musician, if you're able to do something,

then you kind of want to demonstrate it.

But it doesn't really fit the music that I make

if I'm gonna sound like.

- Grunts are not an unfamiliar element

in this type of music.

I just figured it would be cool to do it myself,

indeed to emphasize the versatility that I hope makes me

a little different from you know,

the other singers, female and male.

- I will never be such a great grunter as I am

a more melodic singer, because that's what I, that's how

I can, you know, tell my, share my message the best.

- My vocals are pretty much just pure emotion.

They're, I mean growling is like very much like

this is the word that I'm saying to you

and this is how I'm saying it to you.

And it's a very very complex

form of vocalization as well, you know.

It's not easier or harder or whatever than clean singing.

To me they're the same.

Fl as smoke fills the room soon to pass, heavy gloom

d the wind will whisk away the past

fl a blank page stares at you

fl nothing left

fl where to start

fl a second chance carries expectation fl

I'm having a lot more fun actually just, just doing growls

because I feel like as a performer, I'm you know,

able to grow and I'm just starting.

It's so aggressive, it's so physical, you know.

I get off stage and I feel like I just sprinted for an hour

and it never really felt like that before.

Like, it always felt like I was doing a hard workout

and I was really, you know, involved,

but now the intensity and the range of emotions.

If you scream without feeling it you can hear it.

Fl solved by fire

fl as the pages burn fl

- every type of singing whether it's high or low,

soft, loud, clean or distorted I understand

what I need to do to make the sounds.

Fl make up my mind

fl fight the demon inside

fl be the light or the dark or the safe grey

fl choose a side fl

more importantly, I know how it feels to do it.

And then of course it's a big challenge to shift

Fl but what's the truth

fl I don't seem angelic fl

I'm happy it looks effortless on stage,

that's good to hear because it doesn't feel that way.

It's definitely, you know a lot of okay, now I'm doing this,

now I'm doing that, my body needs to do this,

my body needs to do that.

Because my body is my machine you know.

I need to push the right buttons there.

I wouldn't call it a trick, but it's a technique, you know,

yeah you just need to learn how to master it.

- It's very very refreshing and very very cool to be able

to do a lot of this stuff, but it's also very important

to find your own voice and your own thing,

and I know what my thing is.

- This is actually sad, but initially I thought because I

was a woman, there's no way I'm tough enough for this genre.

I thought that I really needed to be more than I was

and so I created a voice, a vocal sound for myself.

And it actually hurt my voice,

it wasn't a good thing for me at all.

- With every type of singing it really depends on how you're

built, in here, what type of singing fits with you most.

- When I started to play every night, I couldn't actually

keep it up, because first of all,

physically it wasn't possible.

And then, and then also I was realizing how the response

was from people, and I was really noticing

that being genuine was the best way to go.

And I learned a lot.

- Everything that comes easy will become, you know,

the voice that you know, is most natural on you.

Whether that is singing in a very high pitched voice

or growling.

For me personally, the raw singing didn't come natural.

I really had to search for it,

while the clean singing was easy.

I just woke up in this nice little neighborhood

and now, it's always a fun thing to find the venue.

And, the entrance to the venue.

I think I'll just follow Robert.

Box, box.

- Good show.

Good show

- there are some bands that just want to like, you know,

party all night, stay up all night doing drugs,

alcohol, people, whatever.

But there are a lot of bands that you know,

really take it very seriously and they understand

that if they damage themselves they can't work.

- The sex, drugs, and rock and roll kind of life.

For real professional bands, it's impossible.

It'll kill you in the end.

What have you been doing, drooling on the thing?

- Bleeding!

- They think that we are using drugs all day long

and that we're all on stage drunk and do our show

and then go to bed with all the females of the crowd.

And that's a thing you cannot get talked

out of the heads of people.

- Feeding the fishies, with revamp.

There you go

nom nom nom nom.

Nom nom nom nom nom nom.

Nom nom nom nom nom.

- I know for myself I've never ever used any of it, so.

Well, alcohol, sure, but never any of the hard drugs

or any of that shit.

And to really stay in shape and do this work, you can't.

- If I get hurt or I get sick, I can't work,

I can't play my show and that's what I need to do.

And like, missing a day of work as a touring musician

doesn't mean you're gonna have like one angry boss.

It means you're gonna have like 2000 angry fans.

- My drug was always music, always, always.

I would do anything for that, and it's my ultimate high.

- In the band we have a rule, no drinking before the show.

Some discipline is in order as well if you have ambition

you want to be very aware of what you're doing on stage.

- I don't use any drugs.

The only thing I do is sometimes drink a beer.

- I personally don't drink at all, you know, and that's

and for me having fun is hanging out with my friends

in that city, wherever I am and you know,

maybe going to like a cool, vegan restaurant

or like going to a gym, working out.

That's what's cool for me on tour.

That's like how I have fun on tour.

- What I learned is definitely that it's not a good idea

to have too many substances.

All my friends who are in other bands are people

who had too much drugs or alcohol.

Now years later it's definitely catching up.

You know do what you love to do but, you know,

but don't turn into, you know,

don't get dependent on some stupid stuff.

- Amphitheater workout challenge accepted.

- I've always been a bit of a sporty person.

But the older I get, the more I feel it's really important.

Not just because of aging but also because of experience.

Being in a good shape is making your condition better

so you'll fight off all kinds of viruses and, you know,

easier 'cause you don't want to pick up every cold

that's hanging around you.

When your energy's down and when your condition's bad

you'll be more receptive for all kinds of diseases.

- So I've been burned out.

Not as bad as floor has it, cause I know her and she had,

like, a bad bad case, and she had to also learn from scratch

again, how it, you know, how to take care of yourself.

- Hi, this is floor from revamp.

I wanted to leave you a, a bit of a more personal message.

Looking back, the first symptoms

were a lot of throat infections.

Of course, a singer gets a throat infection.

I could've had anything else, but it was always my throat.

I didn't feel it ever had anything to do with how I sang

or with, you know, the fact that I use my voice a lot.

That was just, for some reason, a weak spot.

Some people say it's because you keep emotions here.

When you have too many emotions you don't deal with,

this becomes a weak spot.

Whatever the truth was,

I kept needing all kinds of shit to get rid of it again.

Because, of course, just the thought of taking it easy

and heal naturally never occurred to me.

So that happened but then I had a, quite a long holiday.

It was the summertime and I got back to my

almost normal energy level I thought.

And we went on tour.

Everything went well.

And I think November 2011, no,

yeah, 2011, I went to the doctor saying I'm so tired

all the time and every time I do a bit too much

my temperature rises and I become feverish.

They checked my blood.

It was all good.

That was beginning of November.

Late November, same thing.

It kept, it became worse.

I went back to the doctor, they did another check,

couldn't find anything, went back to work.

Then it was the holidays.

I had two weeks off in the beginning of January,

I felt pretty good again.

But then I started to work, and after a little bit,

I got the symptoms back.

Super tired.

High temperature and I started to get less and less air.

I had the feeling I was just not breathing normally.

And I remember going on a short little tour with revamp,

with epica, and I was in england for the first time

with them and realized, I sort of panicked,

I started to panic about things,

I couldn't control things anymore.

Shit, sorry.

Hell I never talk about it anymore.

Do you need a minute?

No, it's okay.

I'm so angry about it.

The temperatures kept rising so every time

I would do something I would just get a fever.

But they couldn't find, you know, anything that could,

yeah, give a reason, any physical reason anyway,

even though all these symptoms are very physical.

Looking back, my doctor should've noticed

all those symptoms.

He could've done a better job on me if he would have said

in November, floor, if I put one and one together

and it's two, you've got a burnout.

So, he just let me kept on going for a little while longer.

Which I truly feel caused more time, more recovery time

because by the time I stopped working I was so tired,

I couldn't think anymore.

I couldn't like anything anymore.

I couldn't breathe anymore.

And I had a constant fever which makes you dizzy and tired

and terrible feeling, terrible state you get used to.

You get used to feeling so miserable.

- I went to an emergency room in Italy and got x-rays and

blood tests done to make sure I wasn't, like, going to die.

Due to many years of taking antibiotics.

- I've been singing just when I was feverish,

and while I should have rested.

- I learned now that every little symptom

you might have is one.

If you've got pain, there's something wrong.

If you get sick, there's something wrong.

And you need to stop doing work, you know,

you need to give yourself some time to recover.

But we live in an industry,

we live in a world where we have to keep on going.

You know, you'll get praised by your colleagues.

Yeah, I'm sick but I'm still here.

Wow, good work ethics.

Really?

No, go home before you infect anyone else and get better.

- In the past when I was on tour, I got sick,

I just got antibiotics from wherever I was

from whichever doctor and I wanted to get better faster

and in a way it kind of broke down my immune system.

- I got into the hospital, and I got cortisone shots

in my ass, and it, it's was.

- It's not bad to be sick.

It happens and you need to get better.

You're not gonna get better by avoiding

or ignoring the fact that you're sick,

or that they're, you know, minor things.

And I think if there's one thing I learned

it's definitely that.

- When you are the only one who can't really perform,

you have to anyway, because there's money,

there's people who bought tickets, there's people already

in the car, on the way to the concert, you know.

- As a headliner, you have other bands with you

who are depending on you,

and so that puts kind of a lot of pressure on you.

- You have to go on, or not, I don't know.

You know?

It's a big thing for vocalists.

- During the American, North America tour

I was in five different hospitals who had to take care

of me, and I didn't know what was wrong.

It took a while before we found that out.

So I did another European tour with sonata arctica.

I had to go to the hospital again, and they even did

one show without me, it was the last show of the tour.

I just woke up after being in the hospital

with no voice and no energy.

It was in Amsterdam so they did the show without me.

I think Tony even sang the vocals on one song

as a tour joke, and I was sick in bed and um.

- It sucked.

It was the one time that our tour manager came into the bus

and say, delain has just start playing.

And I was like, no because I am right here!

- Why did I get my burn out now?

Why did I not get overworked anytime before

because I've been working really hard for many years

and always loving that by the way?

I even need a certain amount

of pressure and stress and work.

- It's all or nothing.

And when you give it all, then you're going to have

to keep giving it all, and it's going to go faster

and faster and harder and harder, and that's what it is.

And every time I'm like, I'm going to burn out,

I'm exhausted, then a million more things pile up

that I have to do.

There's no top to this mountain, you just keep climbing up.

- What was different in the period before the burn out

was that I started to do a lot of different kind of jobs.

I did the management and I did this and I did that and I

became a teacher and I wanted to become a very good teacher.

And I wanted to be a very good manager and I wanted to

understand everything about the finances and do the invoices

and do everything.

I wanted to do a lot of things I'm not good at either,

but just because I felt that I had to do it,

no one else could do it better than me.

I had to do it.

And I'm a huge perfectionist.

So, all those things that I was doing

needed to be done perfect.

And I'm a good singer, I'm a good song writer,

I'm a good performer.

But I'm not a good manager.

And I'm a good teacher, but I'm not there to organize

an entire school, but I started doing that too.

I wanted to be involved.

I wanted to know everything, understand everything,

and take over where I thought it was necessary.

With so much you know, grrr, it's not good.

So if there's one thing I learned is that

there are a couple of things I'm really good at

and there are a couple of things I'm not good at.

And I'll focus on the things I'm good at

and try to let other people do the things

I'm not good at because they'll do it better.

And I'll feel much better.

It's just a different perspective and a different way

of saying like, okay, this I can do, this I can't.

That doesn't mean that I don't do anything I don't like

or I'm not so good at, but there's a healthier balance now.

- If you don't take proper care of your body,

and your health in general,

then stuff like that does happen more often.

- Very often it's a character thing.

It's not necessarily what you do.

It's definitely how you do it.

And then the amount of things that you do plus the character

that comes in that says, yeah but I want to do it perfect.

And I'm super loyal to the things I'll do,

I always finish something.

There's no such thing as saying

I'll stop when my body tells me to stop.

No, I'll stop when it's finished.

- I don't know if I would be able to continue at this pace,

physically for very long

because it's really intense right now.

You know, I'm definitely going to need to slow down

at some point, probably right before recording

the next album, you know, I'll take a little breather

- these character things, they're good, you know.

It's good to be loyal.

It's good to be a perfectionist and to be ambitious.

It's just you need to learn where your boundaries are.

And how to stop in time and just say,

okay, maybe it's not perfect but it's good so it's good.

And then I'm satisfied.

I can be happy now.

I can get my energy off of it now.

And the things I can't do myself,

I need to do, give it away to someone else.

And if the other person screws up,

then the other person screws up.

He'll do better next time.

You can't control it.

And I make it sound really easy

but I don't master it at all.

When something needs to be done

I'll be the first one to do it.

It's really annoying and I really have to let it go.

- What I do to maintain my health is first of all,

also a state of mind, because being afraid of getting sick

can make you sick.

- After the losing my voice incident, I was extremely

disciplined and I wouldn't even have a sip of alcohol.

But this was only bad for me,

because I got totally stressed out.

- Stress level is a big part of it.

So I find that if I'm happy, if I'm relaxed,

I can conquer the world.

And if I'm not, everything else will fall apart.

- It is kind of strange because you want to be rock and roll

and you want to just go with the flow and everything, but.

- I think it's a vocalist thing, because our instrument

is in our body, so if we don't maintain that,

then you don't, 'cause you know, you Polish the guitar,

you put it in the case, and it's in the bus.

You don't, you know, you don't look at it

anymore until the next show.

But we do the interviews we do the talking, and we have

to sleep, and eat right, and um.

- This fall, we had a tour in america with kamelot.

It was very good that we had Alissa white gluz with us,

because she is vegan and she was you know,

able to direct me to all the good places,

you know around the venues.

- I'm always concerned with my health

because my instrument is my body.

So, I have to make sure that I'm sleeping enough,

eating the right things, not eating the wrong things,

staying away from drugs and smoke.

- This is actually the first time

where I was very disciplined about what I ate.

And also, every time that we were near a hotel,

just go to whatever kind of closet that

they put the gym in you know and spend some time there.

And it made a huge, huge difference for yeah, how I felt,

and also I feel for how I was singing and.

- Singing is using your breath in a very controlled way.

The breath makes your vocal cords vibrate in that sound.

So, you need control of your breath.

If you're out of shape, you'll be out of breath.

You know, you'll sound like a dog

that's just been running all the time.

And that's not nice.

And it also loses the, you know,

the fine tuning on the singing.

You can't sing the long notes.

The really high notes become huh huh.

You'll need the control.

- And that's really really important.

But I'm not super concerned with losing my voice

or blowing it out just because for basically

the past 10 years, I've been doing you know,

many different kinds of growls like black metal screams

and death growls and like, power metal kinda singing

and operatic singing

and I haven't lost any range in the clean v0lce.

- Yeah, I mean, I go to the gym.

I run three times a week.

I do try to take care of my body and maybe more so than

if I hadn't been a singer, especially on tour.

I, I'm starting to realize

how much of a difference it makes.

- On the road it's difficult, more difficult

especially when you travel by night liner.

When you fly a lot and you have irregular days you know,

and times, the only thing you want is to sleep,

and then, you know, working out becomes a real, real,

pain in the ass almost because you know you have to.

You'll feel better but you need to find the balance there.

- And I think that this line between being relaxed

and being kind of, you know having some discipline,

it might lie somewhere else for everybody.

- And don't let your bandmates tell you you're just

another instrumentalist, like, vocalists are special breeds.

They need more care.

It's true.

I would like it to be different, I would like to be,

you know, party all night,

and then the day after, sing like an angel.

But I, you know, you can't, so you have to, you have to,

that life maintenance and that,

I think 50 0/0 of being a singer is that.

- I must admit I don't know what it's like

to have a regular job or a regular life.

So I can't compare it.

I can only tell that like in any other business,

nothing happens without a reason.

Nothing is just pure luck and coincidence.

So that means that everything that happens

is driven by some thing or by someone.

And you'll need a bit of luck and talent.

You need to be lucky enough to be there at the right moment,

at the right place like we were with after forever.

- With after forever it took like five years to be able to

make a living from it and there was enough income coming in.

And with epica it took like three or four years.

So what you need in the beginning it's a lot of investments,

you need to get all the equipment,

you need to get whatever it needs to start a band.

But once you have everything together

you can start getting out of the debt.

- This job, I consider it a job, some people don't consider

it a job, I do, I earn my money with it, so it's my job.

And you have to, yeah you have to be careful

and it's not a very structured workload you have,

it's like touring, it's like it's in blocks

where you are very busy and where it's not so busy.

Yeah, so you have to be aware of that and your situation

at home, you should accept that as well of course,

so that's very important.

- We can pay each other a monthly salary and so just like

everybody else who has a normal job, normal job,

even I say mention it like this now.

But I see this also of course as a normal job,

and so it's just like any other job but the only big

difference is we can really do what we really enjoy doing.

- What I always say to everybody, also when I ask I guest

musicians for example, money is one thing but you only

do it, only be a guest musician on my album

when you think it's fun.

If you don't think it's fun, then don't do it.

- There are so many people out there who have a job who

do not really enjoy their job.

And that's another point, I think when you really do what

you like to do in life, even though it's very hard in

the beginning, eventually there's a big chance

that it will succeed.

Because when your intuition tells you to do something,

I think for me especially it's, my intuition is

most of the time right and that's why I follow it

and that's why it brought me already

so many things that I wished for, so.

It happened with after forever and then people said yeah,

you were lucky, but it happened also with epica.

It cannot be luck, just luck anymore.

- For some reason, there was a little interest growing

in metal bands with female singers.

It was new and there was the gathering in the Netherlands,

then there was within temptation in the Netherlands.

Within this tiny little country here,

there was a platform for this music.

That was luck.

That had nothing to do with hard work or with talent.

But the reason that we did get it to that level was because

of hard work, was because of always being there,

was because of you know, the effort put into getting

the music out there without the use of Internet,

'cause you know it wasn't there yet.

It started to come.

Having your own website.

We had a first time with that you know.

There was MySpace at first, I don't know even if it still

exists or if it's big enough but then, hey, there's MySpace.

We need to be on MySpace.

I've never.

You know, I remember getting lessons on how to browse

on Internet when I was already do on the rock academie,

I never even had it in high school.

And then I'm sure, other older artists,

you know, the whole scene is so changing.

But before I go to that.

What do you do?

For me, I mean, you need to be good at the things

you're best in, or the other way around,

best at the things you're good at.

So, I trained my voice so much.

I sang so much.

I practiced so much.

And yeah, you have your little company so you need

you're one element in a big circus, big circle of people,

you need to understand where you are,

where you want to go to.

There's no such thing as a nine to five job.

There's no such things as weekends or organized holidays.

If you want to have a family life as an artist,

that's a big challenge.

When you don't work, there's no money.

When you get sick, too bad.

And yeah, sure, you have your glory moments of you know,

there are moment of you know great exposure

and you're on the stage, but if you consider a day

has 24 hours and you'll only be on stage one and a half hour

of it, the rest of the time you're doing other things,

and it's really not just laying around.

Metal is, not the genre with the biggest audiences compared

to a lot of other genres, so also financially,

it's not much of a guarantee there.

It's really more of a dream.

I mean you can set a dream for yourself,

I want to become a professlonal metal smger,

I think it sounds a bit like a dream

because it's a very tough industry.

There is a lot of competition.

- The scary thing is, is you can't disappear

in this industry, especially when you're growing,

it's a very vulnerable, it's a very vulnerable place to be.

You can't just take a break.

First you build up your reputation and your name.

And then, maybe when you're 30 or at least a decade

into your career, you start making enough to survlve.

Are you guys ready to rock to death?

- You need to stay and ride it

and work it as much as you can.

Fl rock me while I'm alive

fl rock till death, rock till death fl

the thing about it is that it's a labor of love because

first of all, this isn't a job, I absolutely love what I'm

doing, so you don't mind working all the time.

But the thing is you are working all the time.

- There is a lot of more hard work

involved than anyone would ever think.

And no one, no one is going to lift one finger for you

if you haven't done a massive amount of work on your own.

There are no free passes.

- I don't know if it's a profession at all,

professional metal singer.

That coming out of my mouth.

Becoming a musician, becoming a bigger band within the genre

and keep on doing that eventually

made me the professional metal singer.

- You know I've done metal always sort of by my own rules,

not that there are many rules in metal anyways.

But I've always sort of felt like okay, well,

I'm just gonna be me, because I can either be like a crappy

version of somebody else or I can be the best version of me.

So I'm gonna be the best version of me.

- You are putting yourself out there

as an example somewhat for people.

Mostly other girls and younger girls.

- I have been having a lot of reactions from mostly girls

that say wow, the way you've been singing and your

performance, and your style has been very inspiring.

After I heard you I really wanted to do something similar.

It's really amazing to see that happen.

Like, oh people have been really picking this up.

- If I get that kind of message you know, like

oh you've been an example for me, yeah, it's beautiful.

I mean it's very, very heartwarming and very rewarding

when I get messages like that from you know,

like people from Mexico.

I just hope that I can make those people realize

that nothing is given,

and that you have to work really hard for it.

- Having a good ass and a nice front is a plus

for the male fans, they like to look at it.

But for a true music fan, the music comes first.

So if your music sucks, the fans will go away after a while.

- I think that's what metal is all about too.

It's about sweat and work, and really give it your all,

and you know, go full out.

I love that, I love it, it makes you feel you're alive.

I have a good connection to all the female musicians

out there, or to most of them.

We are usually really great friends.

And I always feel I can call my best friends.

If there's something, or if there's a problem, you could

always call, and get some good support, good advice.

Yeah, we do that, actually, a lot.

- I love 'em all, I like 'em all.

I've never thought of competition,

like in the negative sense.

More like, inspiration or motivation.

What's the use of trying to compare yourself to others,

because you are unique, you're doing your thing.

- All the women in this scene support one another

and we're happy to see each other do well.

We're all friends, we back each other up,

we help each other out.

- We have room to flourish and to you know,

and to nurture new generations.

- Music can be something that if you feel a certain way,

and you listen to music that says exactly that

or maybe worse, it can be so good for the soul, you know.

- I really, again, see it as a privilege to be able

to make metal, and really be successful in it,

and also financially successful enough

to make a good living out of it.

I don't know if I'd still be headbanging in the leather

pants when I'm 65.

I mean, one can dream.

You'd make a terrible roadie.

If you were a woman, you would never ask it.

- Am I enlightened?

- Alright let's cut that out.

The name of the band is blackguard.

- I think, yeah we should probably not put it on the DVD

in case the authorities get it and yeah.

Can and will be used against you.

- Wow man, that's real metal.