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In 1963 World in Action made a film
about these seven year old children
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they talked about their homes, their
schools and what they wanted to be
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they were filmed again
when they were fourteen
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we've brought them all
together to watch the films
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because this year
they are twenty-one
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what are they doing now?
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How have they changed?
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What sort of people are they?
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Stop it at once!
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Give me a child until he is seven
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and I will give you the man
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When I leave the
school I'm going to..
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Colet Court
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and then I will be going to
Rossminster Boarding School
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if I pass the exam
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and then we think I'm going to
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Cambridge and Trinity Hall
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Well...
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before I'm old and that,
enough to get a job
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I'll just walk around and
see what I can find
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I want to be a jockey
when I grow up yeah
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When I leave school
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I'm going to The
Dragon School, I might
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and after I might go to
Charterhouse Marlborough
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What about university Charlie?
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I might go to Oxford
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What does university mean?
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Well...
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Well I don't think I
need to go to university
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'cause I'm not going
to be a teacher
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I don't think you have
to go to university
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if you want to be an astronaut
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00:02:00,922 --> 00:02:02,581
When I leave this school
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I'm down for Heathfield
and Fairfield Manor
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00:02:06,921 --> 00:02:11,211
and then maybe I may
want to go to university
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00:02:11,411 --> 00:02:12,798
but I don't know which one yet
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I will buy myself a nice
new made house, you know
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One that's all nice and comfy
39
00:02:19,987 --> 00:02:22,337
I'm going to work in Woolworths
40
00:02:22,537 --> 00:02:25,242
Well, going to Africa
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00:02:25,442 --> 00:02:29,719
and try and teach people
who are not civilised
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to be, more or less good
43
00:02:32,871 --> 00:02:35,524
When I grow up I'd like to
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00:02:35,724 --> 00:02:39,080
find out all about
the moon and all that
45
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,732
It's just that the limitations
of such things as:
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What the audience
require and the time
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don't allow it to
be a real study
48
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I mean if we accept this
49
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then it...
50
00:02:53,145 --> 00:02:55,230
Okay I think it's probably
good entertainment
51
00:02:55,430 --> 00:02:57,285
I don't think we've
changed that much
52
00:02:57,485 --> 00:02:59,846
I think we talk,
no I don't mean looks
53
00:03:00,046 --> 00:03:02,735
I mean the way we talk I don't
think we've changed that much
54
00:03:02,935 --> 00:03:04,969
Well you never lose an
Eastend accent do you
55
00:03:05,169 --> 00:03:07,760
I tell you what, as it goes
you've definitely changed
56
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:08,961
- You think so yeah?
- In facial
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00:03:09,161 --> 00:03:10,986
You haven't changed
a bit have you?
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00:03:11,186 --> 00:03:12,574
Don't you think so?
I thought I'd got bigger
59
00:03:12,774 --> 00:03:14,424
You might be about
an inch bigger yeah
60
00:03:14,624 --> 00:03:16,286
- An inch?
- I know it's unbelievable
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00:03:16,486 --> 00:03:19,965
That's something I did notice,
the way our teeth have changed
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Teeth?
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00:03:21,167 --> 00:03:22,167
Yes
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00:03:22,168 --> 00:03:24,383
- Mine were out like that and I had them
shoved back - Well I noticed the ears actually
65
00:03:24,583 --> 00:03:28,606
Have you not noticed that a lot of people...
your ears have been made real fun about them
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00:03:28,806 --> 00:03:33,107
They've got they're
conclusions settled already
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They must
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met here today
and we've seen the films
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00:03:38,287 --> 00:03:41,056
and we feel as if we know
everybody who is in the films now
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00:03:41,256 --> 00:03:43,602
has broken any class barriers
that could previously existed
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00:03:43,802 --> 00:03:46,420
and therefore the film itself has
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possibly defeated its own object
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00:03:48,183 --> 00:03:50,044
- They do lead me on a bit don't they
- That's what I mean
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00:03:50,244 --> 00:03:52,503
and they hype the
program up too much
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00:03:52,703 --> 00:03:53,704
Yeah
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00:03:53,705 --> 00:03:57,073
and make that
you're good and I'm bad
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00:03:57,273 --> 00:03:58,960
- Or
- Well Vice-versa I think
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00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,998
- No don't be silly
- No I really do, especially the "7" one
79
00:04:02,198 --> 00:04:04,697
People tend to read significance
into it that I don't think exists
80
00:04:04,897 --> 00:04:07,724
One of my friends for instance,
had me pointed out to him as...
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00:04:07,924 --> 00:04:09,657
being destined to run the farm
82
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and being educationally pretty inept,
this is obvious from the film
83
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,036
At seven Nicholas was at a one room
village school in the Yorkshire Dales
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00:04:19,236 --> 00:04:22,483
Do you have a girlfriend?
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I don't want to answer that
86
00:04:26,766 --> 00:04:32,033
I don't want answer
those kind of questions
87
00:04:32,233 --> 00:04:36,083
I thought that one would
come up because when I was
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00:04:36,283 --> 00:04:38,196
When I was doing the
other one somebody said
89
00:04:38,396 --> 00:04:41,407
"what do you think about girls?" and I
said "I don't answer questions like that"
90
00:04:41,607 --> 00:04:43,086
is that the reason
you're asking it?
91
00:04:43,286 --> 00:04:44,994
- Yeah
- thought so
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00:04:48,737 --> 00:04:50,275
The best answer would be
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00:04:50,475 --> 00:04:53,354
to say that I don't answer
questions like that but I mean..
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00:04:53,554 --> 00:04:56,012
You know it was what I
said when I was seven
95
00:04:56,212 --> 00:05:00,786
and it's still the most sensible
but I mean, what about them?
96
00:05:01,070 --> 00:05:02,903
Well you seemed at fourteen
97
00:05:03,103 --> 00:05:06,501
very shy of the whole
98
00:05:06,701 --> 00:05:09,322
sexual life, has that changed?
99
00:05:09,522 --> 00:05:11,701
I've tried to make a change yes
100
00:05:11,901 --> 00:05:16,300
a very definite conscious
effort not to be shy
101
00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:18,784
to be more outgoing
102
00:05:18,785 --> 00:05:24,818
and this is actually something I
can put a point to in my own past
103
00:05:25,018 --> 00:05:28,096
and think yes I did make my
mind up here, here and here
104
00:05:28,296 --> 00:05:31,101
that I was going to try and
change this, this and this
105
00:05:31,301 --> 00:05:33,694
"this" being basically
my confidence
106
00:05:33,894 --> 00:05:34,742
and my
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00:05:34,743 --> 00:05:36,816
my sort of approach to
108
00:05:37,016 --> 00:05:38,721
well this is to
people in general
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00:05:38,921 --> 00:05:41,472
When I grow up I'd like to
110
00:05:41,672 --> 00:05:44,713
find out all about the
moon and all that
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00:05:44,913 --> 00:05:45,902
I mean
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00:05:45,903 --> 00:05:46,703
I'm not
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00:05:46,704 --> 00:05:51,943
when I said that I was interested in physics and
chemistry well I'm not going to do that here
114
00:05:52,143 --> 00:05:53,979
You might be able to
get... somebody to ex...
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00:05:54,179 --> 00:05:56,725
will you explain
this to me again
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00:05:56,925 --> 00:06:00,442
Nicholas is now in his
2nd year at Oxford University
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00:06:00,642 --> 00:06:03,755
Well I'm trying
to be a physicist
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00:06:03,955 --> 00:06:06,385
to fill in the detail of
119
00:06:06,585 --> 00:06:08,847
whenever you meet
somebody at university that
120
00:06:09,047 --> 00:06:10,570
the standard question is,
121
00:06:10,770 --> 00:06:12,326
where are you and
what are you doing?
122
00:06:12,526 --> 00:06:15,446
And my answer is I'm at Merton
College and I'm doing Physics
123
00:06:15,646 --> 00:06:17,937
so it doesn't move up and
down and just rotates
124
00:06:18,137 --> 00:06:19,788
- OK
- Then you put it in
125
00:06:19,988 --> 00:06:20,827
We'll give it a whirl
126
00:06:21,027 --> 00:06:23,464
So what career are
you going to pursue?
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00:06:23,664 --> 00:06:28,244
It depends whether I'll be good
enough to do what I want to really do
128
00:06:28,444 --> 00:06:34,203
I would like if I can
to do research
129
00:06:34,403 --> 00:06:37,206
Are there any disadvantages in
coming from a small place like this
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00:06:37,406 --> 00:06:39,250
and preparing
yourself for Oxford?
131
00:06:39,450 --> 00:06:42,977
Well it's a rather
different background
132
00:06:43,177 --> 00:06:48,419
to go any where,
Oxford perhaps especially
133
00:06:48,619 --> 00:06:53,311
it is a rather more firm
foundation I would've thought
134
00:06:53,511 --> 00:06:55,119
as to your
135
00:06:55,804 --> 00:06:58,102
character? I don't?
Perhaps character
136
00:06:58,302 --> 00:07:00,990
than being brought
up in the city
137
00:07:01,190 --> 00:07:03,503
It's a fixed reference
point in a sense
138
00:07:03,703 --> 00:07:07,782
that sort of earthy life
and death cycle that you get
139
00:07:07,982 --> 00:07:09,650
living on a farm
140
00:07:09,651 --> 00:07:13,876
so when something dies it rots
and feeds back into the earth
141
00:07:14,076 --> 00:07:16,615
Sometimes it's helpful
142
00:07:16,815 --> 00:07:23,052
in a city where things that some people are
very concerned about seem quite irrelevant
143
00:07:23,252 --> 00:07:26,239
Is there a new strength
of your father as a farmer
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00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:28,691
that you think he's
trying to teach you
145
00:07:28,891 --> 00:07:33,475
Well you get a certain sort of
calmness in some situations
146
00:07:33,675 --> 00:07:37,568
take things as they come
you become resigned to things
147
00:07:37,768 --> 00:07:41,556
if the dog's chasing animals in the wrong
direction then you just have to put up with it
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if it won't do as it's told you
become resigned to these things
149
00:07:46,321 --> 00:07:51,751
I suppose yes that's
one possibility
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00:07:52,254 --> 00:07:53,254
come on
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00:07:59,977 --> 00:08:01,094
come on lad
152
00:08:01,095 --> 00:08:03,192
I suppose of all the
seven year olds
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00:08:03,392 --> 00:08:06,307
the original ones,
you are the big success
154
00:08:06,507 --> 00:08:08,575
I am not inclined to accept that
155
00:08:08,775 --> 00:08:10,717
Why? You wouldn't
agree with that?
156
00:08:10,917 --> 00:08:12,564
Well what have I achieved?
157
00:08:12,764 --> 00:08:18,527
I'm not really prepared to accept that
I've done anything very special yet
158
00:08:18,727 --> 00:08:21,249
I'd like to think that...I mean I'm
hoping that I might do at some stage
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00:08:21,449 --> 00:08:26,675
but I don't really think I've done anything
that you can call a great success
160
00:08:27,610 --> 00:08:31,476
It would seem really ridiculous to any
of my friends who watch this if I said
161
00:08:31,676 --> 00:08:34,445
"Christ aren't I a great
success, look at me"
162
00:08:34,645 --> 00:08:37,944
Well what? You know,
what success?
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00:08:38,144 --> 00:08:40,326
I can't think of it
in those terms
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00:08:40,526 --> 00:08:43,943
I haven't done anything
that can be called success
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00:08:44,143 --> 00:08:47,925
nothing out of
the ordinary really
166
00:08:55,932 --> 00:08:57,912
Singing Waltzing
Matilda in Latin
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00:08:58,112 --> 00:09:00,690
at an exclusive pre-preparatory
school in London
168
00:09:00,890 --> 00:09:02,267
Charles
169
00:09:03,617 --> 00:09:04,757
Andrew
170
00:09:04,758 --> 00:09:06,051
and John
171
00:09:06,052 --> 00:09:08,976
I think it's not a bad
idea to pay for schools
172
00:09:09,176 --> 00:09:10,920
because if we didn't
173
00:09:10,921 --> 00:09:13,948
schools would be so
nasty and crowded
174
00:09:14,148 --> 00:09:15,982
Yes, so do I think so
175
00:09:16,182 --> 00:09:21,153
The poor people would come rushing in and
the man in charge of the school would...
176
00:09:21,353 --> 00:09:24,644
Would you think there's any truth
in the ideas behind the program that
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00:09:24,844 --> 00:09:28,954
certain people have more options
than others and this is undesirable?
178
00:09:29,154 --> 00:09:34,406
It's certainly true that more people know
they have more options or imagine they have
179
00:09:34,606 --> 00:09:38,004
I think in practical terms
180
00:09:38,204 --> 00:09:43,836
the difference in numerical
number of options isn't that great
181
00:09:44,036 --> 00:09:48,304
the fact is that the three of us know that
there's a whole range of things we can do
182
00:09:48,504 --> 00:09:52,767
But the mere knowledge creates an option in
itself, so I think we do have more options
183
00:09:52,967 --> 00:09:56,889
and it is undesirable but it's
very difficult to correct
184
00:09:57,089 --> 00:09:59,656
I don't think it is
undesirable at all
185
00:09:59,856 --> 00:10:02,225
I think what's undesirable is
people who have had options
186
00:10:02,425 --> 00:10:05,168
don't make advantage of them,
take best advantage of them
187
00:10:05,368 --> 00:10:07,657
but I can't see there's
anything wrong
188
00:10:07,857 --> 00:10:12,825
as long as people don't abuse the
opportunities and privileges they've had
189
00:10:13,025 --> 00:10:18,876
If people behave responsibly
I think it's very good
190
00:10:19,076 --> 00:10:21,595
they're the sort of stability
and structure in society
191
00:10:21,795 --> 00:10:23,383
We've been taught to expect more
192
00:10:23,583 --> 00:10:26,470
it's not that because we've
been to private schools
193
00:10:26,670 --> 00:10:29,004
we're not better
qualified necessarily
194
00:10:29,204 --> 00:10:30,875
- No
- Yes I agree with that
195
00:10:31,075 --> 00:10:32,765
It's a matter of expectations
196
00:10:32,965 --> 00:10:34,996
Yes I must say, all this
talk about opportunities
197
00:10:35,196 --> 00:10:38,843
something I did slightly
object to in the program was
198
00:10:39,043 --> 00:10:40,769
we were shown at
the age of seven
199
00:10:40,969 --> 00:10:46,660
outlining the academic career that
most of us did in fact pursue
200
00:10:46,860 --> 00:10:49,716
each sentence ended up
"John is at Westminster"
201
00:10:49,916 --> 00:10:51,503
Andrew is at Charterhouse
and everything
202
00:10:51,703 --> 00:10:55,646
implied that we just sailed through, merely
manifesting an intention at the age of seven
203
00:10:55,846 --> 00:10:59,104
we didn't show the sleepless nights,
the pouring over our books
204
00:10:59,304 --> 00:11:00,693
sort of, you know
205
00:11:00,694 --> 00:11:04,357
all the sweat and toil that
got us through to university
206
00:11:04,557 --> 00:11:07,589
it was presented as if it
was just part of some
207
00:11:07,789 --> 00:11:10,128
indestructible birth right that
we went to all these places
208
00:11:10,328 --> 00:11:14,605
and I thought that was unfair, they didn't show
us having to do beastly jobs in the holidays
209
00:11:14,805 --> 00:11:18,196
y'know, to make
ends meet and things
210
00:11:18,396 --> 00:11:22,351
it didn't give a very
real sort of...impression
211
00:11:22,551 --> 00:11:25,055
The three girls are earning
212
00:11:25,255 --> 00:11:30,741
income wise they're far better off than I
imagine all three of us are, certainly I am
213
00:11:30,941 --> 00:11:33,681
and background wise
214
00:11:33,682 --> 00:11:37,840
in terms of qualifications or the
means of achieving their ends
215
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,648
they probably have just
as many options as we do
216
00:11:40,848 --> 00:11:42,098
Jaqueline
217
00:11:42,099 --> 00:11:44,401
how do you think about
coloured people?
218
00:11:44,601 --> 00:11:48,715
Well they're nice, they're
just the same as us really
219
00:11:48,915 --> 00:11:51,114
but, one thing
220
00:11:51,115 --> 00:11:54,728
it's only 'cause their
skin's brown and we're white
221
00:11:54,928 --> 00:11:58,528
sort of pinkish we are
222
00:11:58,728 --> 00:12:01,054
Jackie, Lynn and Susan
223
00:12:01,254 --> 00:12:03,930
they went to primary school
together in the Eastend of London
224
00:12:04,130 --> 00:12:06,118
Lynn chose to go on
to a grammar school
225
00:12:06,318 --> 00:12:08,788
and Jackie and Susan
to a comprehensive
226
00:12:08,988 --> 00:12:12,307
There is a danger that you would
get married at early twenties and
227
00:12:12,507 --> 00:12:16,294
have children quickly and
then be stuck at home
228
00:12:16,494 --> 00:12:18,127
have you any thoughts on that?
229
00:12:18,327 --> 00:12:21,314
- I don't really think about it much
- No
230
00:12:21,514 --> 00:12:24,507
I don't think I'd eh...
231
00:12:24,707 --> 00:12:26,660
get married to early
232
00:12:26,661 --> 00:12:28,494
I'd like to have
a full life first and
233
00:12:28,694 --> 00:12:30,861
- I'd like to enjoy myself before I...
- Meet people and...yeah
234
00:12:31,061 --> 00:12:33,675
Before you can commit
yourself to a family
235
00:12:33,875 --> 00:12:38,209
What would you do if you had
lots of money? about two pounds
236
00:12:38,409 --> 00:12:42,063
I would buy myself a nice new
made house you know
237
00:12:42,263 --> 00:12:45,319
one that's all nice and comfy
238
00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:49,829
Jackie was married last year and
now lives on a new estate in Essex
239
00:12:50,029 --> 00:12:53,145
- It's a nice estate
- Yeah - Yeah not bad at all
240
00:12:53,345 --> 00:12:55,649
What are they like the neighbours?
Have you seen a lot of them or what?
241
00:12:55,849 --> 00:12:59,482
Well you know, to say hello
to more than anything, I mean
242
00:12:59,682 --> 00:13:02,239
we borrow things off of her,
which is just as well
243
00:13:02,439 --> 00:13:06,268
- That's what neighbours are for isn't it?
- Yeah right!
244
00:13:06,468 --> 00:13:09,645
Here, It's a similar colour scheme
down here moving up stairs isn't it?
245
00:13:09,845 --> 00:13:13,544
Yeah but this was more by
luck than judgement really
246
00:13:13,744 --> 00:13:16,114
- Was it like this when you came?
- No it was all white
247
00:13:16,314 --> 00:13:18,851
but you can imagine
the state it was in
248
00:13:19,051 --> 00:13:24,060
friends had some paint handy so Dad and Mick
just used the rollers and in a day it was done
249
00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:25,581
two coats, wallop!
That was it
250
00:13:25,781 --> 00:13:27,179
Susan is still single
251
00:13:27,379 --> 00:13:30,116
I work for a travel company
252
00:13:30,316 --> 00:13:34,987
they don't deal with the public, they
deal with groups and company groups
253
00:13:35,187 --> 00:13:39,936
it's sort of incentive, holidays abroad
and conferences, that sort of thing
254
00:13:40,136 --> 00:13:44,329
which I like because
I like foreign places
255
00:13:44,529 --> 00:13:46,070
and I have to do eh...
256
00:13:46,270 --> 00:13:47,852
I do quite a bit of typing
257
00:13:48,052 --> 00:13:50,686
but a lot of my work is
involved in making bookings
258
00:13:50,886 --> 00:13:53,459
and dealing with hotels abroad
259
00:13:53,659 --> 00:13:57,041
I left school and started work...
260
00:13:57,241 --> 00:14:00,701
for an Australian bank
and I'm still there
261
00:14:00,901 --> 00:14:04,485
and I've been there what?
Three and a half years now
262
00:14:04,685 --> 00:14:08,922
I've done various
jobs within the bank
263
00:14:09,537 --> 00:14:13,026
I started off as a
telephonist-typist
264
00:14:13,226 --> 00:14:18,060
which was very interesting actually, you'd
be surprised the sort of calls you get
265
00:14:19,433 --> 00:14:22,794
Then I went on to work
the NCR machine
266
00:14:22,994 --> 00:14:26,137
which is the actual machine
that processes the accounts
267
00:14:26,337 --> 00:14:30,540
and counter work dealing with
clients money and things like that
268
00:14:30,740 --> 00:14:32,807
I'm going to work in Woolworths
269
00:14:33,007 --> 00:14:38,993
Well I'm a school mobile librarian
and assistant to the young peoples office
270
00:14:39,193 --> 00:14:41,109
Which is where we are now
271
00:14:41,309 --> 00:14:47,108
and I've been here
since August last year
272
00:14:48,278 --> 00:14:51,293
Lynn is now married but still
lives and works in the Eastend
273
00:14:51,493 --> 00:14:54,883
I visit schools with the van
274
00:14:55,083 --> 00:14:59,761
where they've not got position to
get into a local library for class visits
275
00:14:59,961 --> 00:15:01,603
I love working with children
276
00:15:01,803 --> 00:15:04,633
do you remember on the
last one I wanted to teach?
277
00:15:04,833 --> 00:15:06,722
Well I didn't get to that
278
00:15:06,922 --> 00:15:10,306
and seeing how it is
today I'm glad I didn't
279
00:15:10,506 --> 00:15:13,724
the job situation for
all teachers as it is
280
00:15:13,924 --> 00:15:17,411
and I think it takes a lot more
patience than I've actually got
281
00:15:17,611 --> 00:15:19,477
I'm much more at home here
282
00:15:19,677 --> 00:15:21,355
- Have I stamped yours?
- Yes
283
00:15:21,555 --> 00:15:23,177
I've not stamped yours
284
00:15:23,377 --> 00:15:25,005
Sleeping Beauty
285
00:15:26,703 --> 00:15:28,507
I've lost the stamp!
286
00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:33,407
Do you sleep like a beauty?
287
00:15:33,607 --> 00:15:34,826
What do you say?
288
00:15:34,839 --> 00:15:36,321
Thank you
289
00:15:36,507 --> 00:15:41,605
I definitely make a point in
reading all my new books I get in
290
00:15:41,805 --> 00:15:44,197
It's quite funny, I
take loads of books home
291
00:15:44,397 --> 00:15:47,607
and people come and say "who
are these kids books on the table?"
292
00:15:47,807 --> 00:15:50,375
- "They're mine"
- "Oh"
293
00:15:50,575 --> 00:15:52,202
Then they sort of shut up
294
00:15:52,402 --> 00:15:57,759
At the moment a career's probably
about the furthest thing from my mind
295
00:15:57,959 --> 00:16:01,703
and I don't really know what I'm aiming
for except to get the house together
296
00:16:01,903 --> 00:16:07,932
and that can take years, as fast as you replace
one thing something else needs replacing, so...
297
00:16:08,132 --> 00:16:09,951
it could just go on like
that, I don't know
298
00:16:10,151 --> 00:16:13,065
Well admitting that
you're not a career girl
299
00:16:13,265 --> 00:16:15,606
does it mean that you're
therefore looking for a family?
300
00:16:15,806 --> 00:16:17,930
Oh I don't know, I suppose I am
301
00:16:18,130 --> 00:16:20,468
But erm..
302
00:16:20,469 --> 00:16:22,623
Every thing's not
that cut and dried
303
00:16:22,823 --> 00:16:25,243
it's not either
career or family or...
304
00:16:25,443 --> 00:16:28,916
but is what's in the middle, am I
just going to carry on as I am now? for?
305
00:16:29,116 --> 00:16:31,683
And end up ...on the shelf?
306
00:16:31,883 --> 00:16:34,786
Or am I just going to get
married? could be any day, but
307
00:16:34,986 --> 00:16:37,321
I suppose Lynn is a career
girl in a way isn't she?
308
00:16:37,521 --> 00:16:41,946
Yeah she's more wrapped
up in her job than I think we are
309
00:16:42,146 --> 00:16:47,012
and you all three were sat there at seven and
she's gone that way and you've gone this way
310
00:16:47,212 --> 00:16:49,367
is there? can you?
311
00:16:49,368 --> 00:16:51,305
Think of any reasons
why that should be?
312
00:16:51,505 --> 00:16:57,079
I think just basic personality, Lynn's always
been that little bit different from us
313
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:00,642
She's always been more serious
as far as studies are concerned
314
00:17:00,842 --> 00:17:04,034
I didn't feel like going to a
grammar school, I just er...
315
00:17:04,234 --> 00:17:07,543
you know, comprehensive school
it just seemed more friendly
316
00:17:07,743 --> 00:17:11,207
At that time that is, but
now a little bit different
317
00:17:11,407 --> 00:17:15,067
- Grammar school's fantastic
- If you say so!
318
00:17:15,267 --> 00:17:16,965
When I leave this school
319
00:17:17,165 --> 00:17:21,326
I'm down for Heathfield
and Fairfield Manor
320
00:17:21,526 --> 00:17:28,757
and then maybe I may want to go to
university but I don't know which one yet
321
00:17:32,554 --> 00:17:34,040
This is Susie
322
00:17:34,041 --> 00:17:38,941
the product of a private
education and wealthy parents
323
00:17:44,346 --> 00:17:48,523
What do you think about
making this program?
324
00:17:50,758 --> 00:17:54,480
I just think it's ridiculous, I
don't see any point in doing it
325
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,057
Why not?
326
00:17:56,927 --> 00:18:00,220
What's the point of people going
into peoples lives and saying:
327
00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:03,261
"Why do you like this and why
don't you?" I don't see any point in it
328
00:18:03,461 --> 00:18:07,246
Well I didn't want to
do it when I was fourteen
329
00:18:07,446 --> 00:18:10,634
I know I was very difficult
because I was very anti doing it
330
00:18:10,834 --> 00:18:15,517
because I was pressurised
into doing it by my parents
331
00:18:16,202 --> 00:18:18,043
and I hated it
332
00:18:18,044 --> 00:18:20,986
and I vowed I'd never do it now
333
00:18:21,186 --> 00:18:22,933
but here I am
334
00:18:23,374 --> 00:18:25,567
I'd like to do...
335
00:18:25,568 --> 00:18:28,089
short hand typing
or something like that
336
00:18:28,289 --> 00:18:32,377
I left school when I was
sixteen, went to Paris
337
00:18:33,369 --> 00:18:36,402
went to secretarial
college and got a job
338
00:18:36,602 --> 00:18:40,819
What made you decide to
leave school and go to Paris?
339
00:18:41,019 --> 00:18:46,082
I just wasn't interested in school
and just wanted to get away
340
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,858
and why did you choose Paris?
341
00:18:50,058 --> 00:18:53,358
I don't know, it was
my parents really
342
00:18:53,558 --> 00:19:00,584
Did you sort of feel the
need to get away? and why?
343
00:19:00,784 --> 00:19:03,028
Well I'd lived in
London or Scotland
344
00:19:03,228 --> 00:19:06,541
and I knew people who were going out
to Paris and so I thought I'd go as well
345
00:19:06,741 --> 00:19:09,024
Comparing yourselves to Susie
346
00:19:09,224 --> 00:19:11,212
who stands at the other
end of the social scale
347
00:19:11,412 --> 00:19:15,001
do you think you've had the
same opportunities as her?
348
00:19:15,201 --> 00:19:17,989
I've had the opportunities
in life that I've wanted
349
00:19:18,189 --> 00:19:22,196
I'd say I've had more
opportunities than Susie
350
00:19:22,396 --> 00:19:24,687
I'd say I've had more
opportunities than her
351
00:19:24,887 --> 00:19:27,948
in a different aspect to
what she's had them
352
00:19:28,148 --> 00:19:33,817
But eh, my life, I've been able to
do more or less what I wanted to do
353
00:19:34,017 --> 00:19:37,299
I'm not going to say it on
film, what I feel for her
354
00:19:37,499 --> 00:19:43,181
But I think she's been so conditioned into
what she should do and what she shouldn't do
355
00:19:43,381 --> 00:19:44,963
Yeah but I mean
356
00:19:44,964 --> 00:19:48,601
The whole thing is you're saying
"do we envy anything Susie's had?"
357
00:19:48,801 --> 00:19:49,501
No
358
00:19:49,502 --> 00:19:50,860
I mean I don't know
359
00:19:50,861 --> 00:19:54,447
I don't know what Susie's had,
what's Susie had that I haven't had?
360
00:19:54,647 --> 00:19:57,837
I mean, until I know that I can't
honestly say whether I envy her
361
00:19:58,037 --> 00:20:01,121
- She's had money and she's travelled
- I've got money!
362
00:20:01,321 --> 00:20:03,500
Maybe not enough but I've got it!
363
00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:07,946
I have been to Honolulu with
my father about two years ago
364
00:20:08,146 --> 00:20:11,534
for a couple of months
365
00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:14,677
which I didn't really enjoy
366
00:20:14,877 --> 00:20:20,001
there's nothing much out there, there's
no meet people my own age out there
367
00:20:20,201 --> 00:20:24,293
and I hated it and I
was glad to come home
368
00:20:25,406 --> 00:20:29,264
apart from that I've
been to France on holidays
369
00:20:29,464 --> 00:20:33,680
I'm going to Australia
in the summer
370
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,588
for about two months
371
00:20:35,589 --> 00:20:40,777
otherwise I don't know where I'm going
to go and I'd like to go and travel more
372
00:20:40,977 --> 00:20:42,325
Why?
373
00:20:42,581 --> 00:20:45,297
Well I don't think there's any
point in sitting in your own country
374
00:20:45,497 --> 00:20:50,382
I'd like to see how people live
on the other side of the world
375
00:20:50,582 --> 00:20:54,249
Tell me about the
Australian trip
376
00:20:54,449 --> 00:20:58,446
Well I'm going in July for about
two months with my cousin
377
00:20:58,646 --> 00:21:01,224
her elder sister's
married out there
378
00:21:01,424 --> 00:21:04,971
and we're just going out to...
379
00:21:05,171 --> 00:21:07,545
see what it's like
380
00:21:07,563 --> 00:21:12,467
we're going to not work out there,
we're only going for two months
381
00:21:13,413 --> 00:21:16,274
We just feel if we don't
go now we never will
382
00:21:16,474 --> 00:21:20,354
We've got the opportunity and
the time to go now so we're going
383
00:21:20,554 --> 00:21:23,081
How are you going to pay for it?
384
00:21:23,281 --> 00:21:25,106
Save up and go
385
00:21:26,002 --> 00:21:29,157
Do you get depressed
by money problems?
386
00:21:29,357 --> 00:21:32,044
No, why?
Why should you?
387
00:21:32,244 --> 00:21:34,400
- If you can manage on what you've got
- I refuse to get depressed over money
388
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,549
- It's so easy to but why should you?
- I do, I do
389
00:21:37,749 --> 00:21:39,131
Why worry about it?
390
00:21:39,132 --> 00:21:41,514
When I reach the 18th day of the month
and my mortgage is due on the 20th
391
00:21:41,714 --> 00:21:45,977
and there's nowhere near enough money in
there, I get depressed about it obviously
392
00:21:46,177 --> 00:21:48,299
Suddenly thinking, oh my god what's
going to happen, you know
393
00:21:48,499 --> 00:21:51,661
But it gets there, don't
ask me how but you get it
394
00:21:51,861 --> 00:21:54,073
Do you think you've
settled down to young?
395
00:21:54,273 --> 00:21:54,866
No
396
00:21:54,867 --> 00:21:58,879
I've married and we do
things together, or...
397
00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:02,658
I go out on my own sometimes
with friends from work
398
00:22:02,858 --> 00:22:07,829
he does the same, what do
you mean by settled down?
399
00:22:08,029 --> 00:22:11,574
If you think that getting married
as far as we're concerned is a case of
400
00:22:11,774 --> 00:22:15,514
going to work, come home, cook tea for hubby,
going to bed, getting up, going to work
401
00:22:15,714 --> 00:22:17,338
you're totally mistaken
402
00:22:17,538 --> 00:22:20,286
Did you meet enough men
before you decided who to marry?
403
00:22:20,486 --> 00:22:22,992
I've been married a year and...
404
00:22:23,192 --> 00:22:24,601
a couple of months
405
00:22:25,596 --> 00:22:29,712
you do think "christ,
what have I done?"
406
00:22:29,986 --> 00:22:33,614
- See I've still got my ideals
- and I'm being honest about it!
407
00:22:33,814 --> 00:22:39,488
And my husband thinks the same, at
times you think "christ, what have I done?"
408
00:22:39,688 --> 00:22:40,892
- But then if...
- But marriage...
409
00:22:41,092 --> 00:22:42,189
Marriage means a
different thing to me
410
00:22:42,389 --> 00:22:45,838
I've still got my ideals about marriage, I
don't know what it's all about, obviously
411
00:22:46,038 --> 00:22:47,934
So I've still got pictures of
412
00:22:48,134 --> 00:22:50,303
- Cosy evenings indoors...yeah
- With roses!
413
00:22:50,503 --> 00:22:54,108
She'd have cosy evenings
indoors with the central heating!
414
00:22:54,308 --> 00:22:55,571
Or lack of it!
415
00:22:55,572 --> 00:22:57,966
- Yeah, I've got a lot to learn
about... getting married
416
00:22:58,166 --> 00:23:03,747
I mean, your parents split up
soon after you were fourteen
417
00:23:03,947 --> 00:23:08,032
What sort of influence,
effect did that have on you?
418
00:23:08,415 --> 00:23:12,421
Well I was the only child going through
their parents splitting up aged 14
419
00:23:12,621 --> 00:23:17,627
at a very vulnerable age
and it does touch you up, but...
420
00:23:17,827 --> 00:23:20,580
You know, you get over it
421
00:23:20,780 --> 00:23:23,063
There was no point in
them staying together for me
422
00:23:23,263 --> 00:23:25,460
if it was worse,
I mean the rows and...
423
00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:27,730
and it's worse
424
00:23:27,731 --> 00:23:30,516
so if two people can't live together
there's no point in making yourself
425
00:23:30,716 --> 00:23:34,443
even for the sake of children
426
00:23:34,953 --> 00:23:40,615
What is your attitude towards
marriage? for yourself?
427
00:23:43,257 --> 00:23:48,682
Well I don't know, I haven't given it a
lot of thought as I'm very cynical about it
428
00:23:50,629 --> 00:23:53,501
But then you get a certain
amount of faith restored in it
429
00:23:53,701 --> 00:23:57,842
I mean I've got friends and their
parents are happily married
430
00:23:58,042 --> 00:24:02,549
and it does put faith back into you
but me myself I'm very cynical about it
431
00:24:02,749 --> 00:24:03,948
Why?
432
00:24:04,484 --> 00:24:09,120
Because I think it kills
whatever love is
433
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,980
it just seems to go wrong
434
00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:15,616
What do you base that on?
435
00:24:15,816 --> 00:24:19,791
Well, people I've seen,
people around me
436
00:24:19,991 --> 00:24:25,737
I mean I've got...not a lot of
my friends are married
437
00:24:26,951 --> 00:24:33,381
a lot of people who are 20,30 all seem to
be getting divorced and can't stay together
438
00:24:33,581 --> 00:24:37,159
and at the moment I just
don't really believe in it
439
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,504
Why do you think people
can't hold marriages together?
440
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:44,261
I don't know, I
really don't know
441
00:24:44,461 --> 00:24:47,850
I don't sort of sit down and
think "ooh ...analyse marriage"
442
00:24:48,050 --> 00:24:52,315
It's not something I've had to think
about whether I was going to get married
443
00:24:52,515 --> 00:24:58,042
and I've got no desire to at the
moment, I think twenty is far too young
444
00:24:58,242 --> 00:24:59,728
What was the wedding like?
445
00:24:59,928 --> 00:25:04,300
Our wedding?
A laugh!
446
00:25:07,366 --> 00:25:12,375
I wanted, white
wedding, all trimmings
447
00:25:12,893 --> 00:25:16,447
My husband would've been
satisfied with very little
448
00:25:16,647 --> 00:25:19,908
but being as we were
going into it as a full thing
449
00:25:20,108 --> 00:25:21,752
we went into it
450
00:25:21,971 --> 00:25:24,605
I had an all white
wedding, all white
451
00:25:24,805 --> 00:25:29,353
We were both in white and
my bridesmaid was in white
452
00:25:29,668 --> 00:25:33,060
It's a funny day actually
453
00:25:33,260 --> 00:25:37,173
because I suppose I was up somewhere
around the five o'clock mark
454
00:25:37,373 --> 00:25:39,398
and I spent all day preparing
455
00:25:39,598 --> 00:25:41,925
well all morning I should say
456
00:25:42,125 --> 00:25:44,546
and then sitting around
for about three hours
457
00:25:44,746 --> 00:25:48,388
just waiting for something to happen
then when it did happen I don't remember it
458
00:25:48,588 --> 00:25:49,617
So
459
00:25:49,618 --> 00:25:52,765
It was just complete
confusion really
460
00:25:52,965 --> 00:25:54,859
- It was a nice day though
- Oh yeah
461
00:25:55,059 --> 00:25:59,819
It was funny actually, you can
imagine some of the comments
462
00:26:00,019 --> 00:26:04,647
I was pleased I was there, it
seemed the right place to be
463
00:26:04,847 --> 00:26:09,124
I mean I was glad I was at her
wedding, I've known her a long while
464
00:26:09,324 --> 00:26:12,921
Did anything happen?
Anything funny?
465
00:26:13,121 --> 00:26:16,458
I can't forget the cake
466
00:26:16,658 --> 00:26:21,286
It was horrific really, the cake
what happened to the wedding cake
467
00:26:21,486 --> 00:26:25,810
it was sitting right
in between Mick and myself
468
00:26:26,010 --> 00:26:30,794
suddenly the columns just completely
gave way and it just all fell into one
469
00:26:30,994 --> 00:26:34,128
- It was a nice cake though!
- Yeah it wasn't bad!
470
00:26:34,328 --> 00:26:36,937
I read the Financial Times
471
00:26:37,137 --> 00:26:39,841
I read the Observer and the Times
472
00:26:40,041 --> 00:26:41,682
What do you like about it?
473
00:26:41,882 --> 00:26:43,580
Well I like...
474
00:26:43,581 --> 00:26:48,702
I usually look at the headlines
then read about them
475
00:26:48,902 --> 00:26:50,094
about it
476
00:26:50,709 --> 00:26:54,418
I like my newspaper because
I've got shares in it
477
00:26:54,618 --> 00:26:59,330
- and I know every day what the shares are
- The stuff that misers like you like!
478
00:26:59,530 --> 00:27:03,765
But on Monday's they don't
move up so I don't look at it
479
00:27:03,965 --> 00:27:08,649
That's one of the troubles with this sort of
program, I don't really think that people like us
480
00:27:08,849 --> 00:27:12,007
Unless we're seven and being rather
funny, have very much to say that's...
481
00:27:12,207 --> 00:27:14,558
very interesting,
because I mean...
482
00:27:14,758 --> 00:27:16,381
we don't know very much
483
00:27:16,581 --> 00:27:18,568
Well we didn't know very
much when we were seven
484
00:27:18,768 --> 00:27:20,086
- But we were still quite funny
- We were at least funny!
485
00:27:20,286 --> 00:27:22,060
- Yes! - Yes!
- In ourselves!
486
00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:24,895
I agree with John, all we
can say is what we think
487
00:27:25,095 --> 00:27:26,841
and if that's of interest to
people, good luck to them
488
00:27:27,041 --> 00:27:29,851
Yes and I can't believe it is
489
00:27:30,051 --> 00:27:31,594
More fool them!
490
00:27:31,596 --> 00:27:38,253
When I leave this school
I'm going to College Court
491
00:27:39,666 --> 00:27:44,852
then I would be going to Westminster
Boarding School if I pass the exam
492
00:27:45,052 --> 00:27:48,009
and then we think I'm going to
493
00:27:48,209 --> 00:27:50,641
Cambridge and Trinity Hall
494
00:27:50,841 --> 00:27:54,189
John is in his final year at
Christchurch Oxford, reading Law
495
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:59,273
I do believe parents have a right to
educate their children as they think fit
496
00:27:59,473 --> 00:28:05,502
I think someone who works on an assembly
line in a car factory, earning a huge wage
497
00:28:05,702 --> 00:28:08,981
could well afford to send their children
to private school if they wanted to
498
00:28:09,181 --> 00:28:11,669
Just because..
499
00:28:11,670 --> 00:28:15,485
Some sort of people perhaps don't
put that as high on their priorities as...
500
00:28:15,685 --> 00:28:17,997
having a smart car or something
501
00:28:18,197 --> 00:28:22,431
I don't think that's any reason
for abolishing public school
502
00:28:22,631 --> 00:28:26,416
I think an awful lot more people
could afford to send their sons to school
503
00:28:26,616 --> 00:28:28,726
You know, to fee paying school
504
00:28:28,926 --> 00:28:32,759
But they don't choose to,
and that's their choice
505
00:28:32,959 --> 00:28:35,733
I'm going to Charterhouse
506
00:28:35,933 --> 00:28:41,079
and after that,
Trinity Hall Cambridge
507
00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:44,436
Andrew is in his last year at Trinity
College Cambridge, reading Law
508
00:28:44,636 --> 00:28:49,639
I think if people earn their money
they should have a right to spend it
509
00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:52,351
an education is very important
510
00:28:52,551 --> 00:28:58,074
and you can never be sure of leaving
your children any worldly goods but
511
00:28:58,274 --> 00:29:01,457
at least you can be sure that once
you've given them a good education
512
00:29:01,657 --> 00:29:04,202
that's something that
no one can take away
513
00:29:04,402 --> 00:29:06,188
What about university Charlie?
514
00:29:06,388 --> 00:29:08,750
I might go to Oxford
515
00:29:09,173 --> 00:29:12,548
You're reading history at Durham
University, you didn't make Oxford
516
00:29:12,748 --> 00:29:14,490
What are your feelings about that?
517
00:29:14,690 --> 00:29:16,510
I don't mind at all
518
00:29:16,921 --> 00:29:18,648
In fact
519
00:29:20,331 --> 00:29:22,285
I'd say I'm pleased I didn't
520
00:29:22,485 --> 00:29:26,709
because it was very much a sort of
521
00:29:26,909 --> 00:29:30,564
sort of set of
Marlborough Prep School
522
00:29:30,764 --> 00:29:34,868
Marlborough, Oxbridge,
conveyor belt
523
00:29:35,068 --> 00:29:37,529
you get shoved out at the end
524
00:29:37,729 --> 00:29:39,287
and you...
525
00:29:39,583 --> 00:29:43,374
when you go to Oxbridge and it's
obviously not true in all cases but
526
00:29:43,574 --> 00:29:44,929
I think for the majority
527
00:29:45,129 --> 00:29:50,110
they mix with the same people
they were at school with
528
00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:52,112
So what attracts you to Oxford?
529
00:29:52,312 --> 00:29:54,967
Well first of all it's such
a beautiful place
530
00:29:55,167 --> 00:29:58,624
there's more to it than just
studying away at one's books
531
00:29:58,824 --> 00:30:00,986
I think it's very difficult
not to get something out of it
532
00:30:01,186 --> 00:30:02,641
there's such a sort of...
533
00:30:02,841 --> 00:30:06,161
atmosphere of culture and...
534
00:30:06,361 --> 00:30:12,918
and timelessness about the place that
I think you do sort of mature an awful lot
535
00:30:14,129 --> 00:30:15,331
So what is Beagling?
536
00:30:15,332 --> 00:30:18,960
Beagling is the
hunting of the hare
537
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,756
with a pack of hounds,
done on foot
538
00:30:21,956 --> 00:30:24,834
I mean a lot of people
seem to imagine
539
00:30:25,034 --> 00:30:29,413
a days hunting with either
fox to hunt or beagles
540
00:30:29,613 --> 00:30:33,002
unadulterated butchery.
I mean this just isn't true, I think
541
00:30:33,202 --> 00:30:37,568
I wish people had a more
realistic idea of what it's about
542
00:30:40,966 --> 00:30:43,796
The hounds are over there I think
543
00:30:43,996 --> 00:30:48,373
I saw them last streaming
along that hedge there
544
00:30:53,734 --> 00:30:57,172
- Frustrating isn't it?
- Yes
545
00:31:00,467 --> 00:31:03,039
I'm reasonably old fashioned about
some things but I mean
546
00:31:03,239 --> 00:31:06,833
I mean people who go on a lot about the
permissive society are missing the point
547
00:31:07,033 --> 00:31:10,325
if they think the only
thing that's wrong is sex
548
00:31:10,525 --> 00:31:18,107
I think you know, decreasing
respect for the family as a unit
549
00:31:18,307 --> 00:31:22,188
increasing dishonesty,
both in business...
550
00:31:22,388 --> 00:31:27,154
there used to be much more much stronger
developed ideas of commercial integrity
551
00:31:27,354 --> 00:31:33,632
than seem to be going around nowadays,
nowadays people seem to be out for themselves
552
00:31:35,161 --> 00:31:39,870
I really do think I suppose there is
an invasion by the American way of life
553
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:44,618
which I think is a very sad thing
554
00:31:44,818 --> 00:31:47,724
Is that unstoppable?
That trend do you think?
555
00:31:47,924 --> 00:31:51,905
I think it really is
unfortunately, yes
556
00:31:52,524 --> 00:31:56,258
So where does that
leave your values?
557
00:31:56,458 --> 00:31:58,827
Well it leaves them with me
558
00:31:59,027 --> 00:32:05,426
and my future children whom
I shall implicate them in
559
00:32:05,626 --> 00:32:09,271
But do you not find
yourself isolated?
560
00:32:09,471 --> 00:32:10,671
That really doesn't matter
561
00:32:10,871 --> 00:32:14,451
If I believe my
principals are right
562
00:32:14,651 --> 00:32:17,028
and I'm doing the right thing
to bring my children up by them
563
00:32:17,228 --> 00:32:21,022
it won't matter to me whether
I'm living in the middle-ages mentally
564
00:32:21,222 --> 00:32:24,663
I shall do what's right
565
00:32:24,863 --> 00:32:28,281
Well when I was very small my
father always used to go ski-ing
566
00:32:28,481 --> 00:32:30,476
and he took me with him
567
00:32:30,676 --> 00:32:33,067
and we've been ever since really
568
00:32:33,267 --> 00:32:35,556
and how old or young were
you when you started?
569
00:32:35,756 --> 00:32:39,910
Oh about five, on tiny little ski's
570
00:32:40,110 --> 00:32:41,800
it was quite frightening then
571
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,241
what is the appeal of it?
572
00:32:43,441 --> 00:32:48,453
Well the sort of freedom and
going in the snow and the mountains
573
00:32:48,653 --> 00:32:50,761
and the feeling of speed
574
00:32:50,961 --> 00:32:53,663
and getting away
from people if you can
575
00:32:53,863 --> 00:32:55,903
Do you save up to
come ski-ing or...?
576
00:32:56,103 --> 00:32:58,828
I don't but my father does
577
00:32:59,028 --> 00:33:00,886
as he pays for me
578
00:33:01,150 --> 00:33:05,602
Your parents have been
divorced since fourteen
579
00:33:05,802 --> 00:33:08,118
- Since you were fourteen
- That's right, quite recently yes
580
00:33:08,318 --> 00:33:11,051
Tell me about that and
the influence it's had on you
581
00:33:11,251 --> 00:33:13,153
Well not much influence in fact
582
00:33:13,353 --> 00:33:15,854
because it's happened
when I'm quite old
583
00:33:16,054 --> 00:33:18,312
and I'm away from
home a lot anyway
584
00:33:18,512 --> 00:33:21,427
it's very sad of course
585
00:33:21,627 --> 00:33:23,902
but I don't think it has had
a great deal of influence
586
00:33:24,102 --> 00:33:26,931
if it had happened
when I was much younger
587
00:33:27,131 --> 00:33:29,071
it would've had much
more influence
588
00:33:29,271 --> 00:33:31,702
an adverse influence
I would've thought
589
00:33:31,902 --> 00:33:37,239
Did your parents divorce
leave any lasting mark on you?
590
00:33:37,439 --> 00:33:38,796
I don't know, I mean
591
00:33:38,797 --> 00:33:41,631
seen the film at fourteen so
592
00:33:41,831 --> 00:33:46,209
and that's of our closest time,
I would've thought it did but...
593
00:33:46,409 --> 00:33:48,468
don't talk about that anyway so...
594
00:33:48,668 --> 00:33:49,668
Why?
595
00:33:51,097 --> 00:33:54,645
I think it's unfair on them
596
00:33:56,016 --> 00:33:59,824
Very few parents I think,
bring up their children...
597
00:34:00,024 --> 00:34:04,475
with the intention of belittling them
or doing as little for them as possible
598
00:34:04,675 --> 00:34:05,513
I think
599
00:34:05,548 --> 00:34:08,021
you have to assume that most
parents do as much as they can
600
00:34:08,221 --> 00:34:10,899
given the circumstances
of the children
601
00:34:11,099 --> 00:34:14,581
and obviously things
could've been far worse
602
00:34:14,781 --> 00:34:18,583
Do you think it's changed your
attitude to marriage? or...
603
00:34:18,783 --> 00:34:21,212
It just means that
604
00:34:21,213 --> 00:34:24,780
because I was faced with that situation I
have an attitude which is a positive attitude
605
00:34:24,980 --> 00:34:30,177
rather than "well everybody else gets
married therefore I shall get married"
606
00:34:33,257 --> 00:34:37,749
My attitude would be that if
one is going to have children
607
00:34:37,949 --> 00:34:42,969
if you want to have children then that's
a very real reason for getting married
608
00:34:43,169 --> 00:34:44,889
but if you get married...
609
00:34:45,089 --> 00:34:48,015
it's an agreement to make the
thing work for eighteen years
610
00:34:48,215 --> 00:34:52,442
or however long it is until
the children have grown up
611
00:34:52,642 --> 00:34:57,215
no there's no point in just
sitting it out for eighteen years
612
00:34:57,415 --> 00:35:00,695
there's nothing worse than that, it would
be better for the parents to get a divorce
613
00:35:00,895 --> 00:35:02,823
I think people
614
00:35:03,827 --> 00:35:06,546
perhaps don't make
as much effort
615
00:35:06,746 --> 00:35:09,503
as they should have, or should
do to make marriages work
616
00:35:09,703 --> 00:35:13,056
it's very easy for me to say so as
I've never been in the position
617
00:35:13,256 --> 00:35:17,784
In what way should
people make more effort?
618
00:35:18,794 --> 00:35:21,923
I think people just take too much
for granted when they get married
619
00:35:22,123 --> 00:35:24,050
or used to, not now perhaps
620
00:35:24,250 --> 00:35:26,494
I mean, I don't know
about you for instance
621
00:35:26,694 --> 00:35:30,250
I know my mother,
she's said that
622
00:35:30,450 --> 00:35:32,902
she's spoilt really
623
00:35:32,903 --> 00:35:36,423
and she never realised how lucky
she'd been until she'd been divorced
624
00:35:36,623 --> 00:35:38,622
Up to about twelve
625
00:35:39,413 --> 00:35:41,005
maybe it's different with
other people, but
626
00:35:41,205 --> 00:35:44,884
I found that you're much
more attached to your parents
627
00:35:45,084 --> 00:35:49,014
once you come to about
thirteen, fourteen
628
00:35:49,214 --> 00:35:51,286
you're not quite so
attached to them
629
00:35:51,486 --> 00:35:55,276
I think the system of
having house captains
630
00:35:55,476 --> 00:35:56,594
is rather good
631
00:35:56,595 --> 00:35:58,845
because when somebody is naughty
632
00:35:59,045 --> 00:36:03,900
the house captain asks him and...
633
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:06,095
and has a talk to him
634
00:36:06,295 --> 00:36:11,006
once I had a talk to Grevil,
he was in my house
635
00:36:11,206 --> 00:36:12,407
and
636
00:36:12,698 --> 00:36:19,386
I asked Sir if he could put him out of my
house because he was always getting minuses
637
00:36:19,586 --> 00:36:21,188
What did Sir say?
638
00:36:21,189 --> 00:36:24,820
Sir said that he would...
639
00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:26,973
we would see about it this term
640
00:36:27,173 --> 00:36:30,099
Well I think it's a
very good system
641
00:36:30,299 --> 00:36:31,911
Have you had to speak to anyone?
642
00:36:32,111 --> 00:36:35,787
- Just because you are one I suppose?
- No, no I haven't!
643
00:36:35,987 --> 00:36:37,653
- You're not are you?
- But I am!
644
00:36:37,853 --> 00:36:42,680
Straw, Mac and Nessie got
three minuses in a day
645
00:36:43,648 --> 00:36:46,526
If I work in Law I should like
a reasonable amount of success
646
00:36:46,726 --> 00:36:49,469
I shouldn't like to be on the
bread-line which is all to common
647
00:36:49,669 --> 00:36:51,791
I'd like to be a Solicitor
648
00:36:51,991 --> 00:36:54,267
and, also fairly successful
649
00:36:54,467 --> 00:36:55,935
I only know what I
don't want and that's
650
00:36:56,135 --> 00:36:59,691
a nuclear family in a
semi-detached in Brentford
651
00:36:59,891 --> 00:37:01,365
Do you three see yourselves...
652
00:37:01,565 --> 00:37:05,658
staying in England, living in England,
making your careers in England?
653
00:37:05,858 --> 00:37:06,959
Yes
654
00:37:07,315 --> 00:37:11,198
Well the trouble is Law
is not really very exportable
655
00:37:11,398 --> 00:37:12,905
From my point of view anyway
656
00:37:13,105 --> 00:37:14,305
I quite like England
657
00:37:14,306 --> 00:37:18,468
'cause I can't say I really approve very
much of the sort people who emigrate
658
00:37:18,668 --> 00:37:20,385
I mean it's too
easy for people who...
659
00:37:20,585 --> 00:37:24,373
this is where I would agree with you
about people who have had opportunities
660
00:37:24,573 --> 00:37:28,128
I do think they've got a corresponding
duty to sort of put back...
661
00:37:28,328 --> 00:37:32,126
you know, people who have had
things going well for them
662
00:37:32,326 --> 00:37:37,649
really ought to stay and help the country
out when things aren't going very well
663
00:37:37,849 --> 00:37:39,955
I don't believe in all
this pulling one's money out
664
00:37:40,155 --> 00:37:43,248
but that's a moral point of view, I do believe
people have the right to live where they like
665
00:37:43,448 --> 00:37:44,888
and also to move
their assets around
666
00:37:45,088 --> 00:37:50,520
but on a moral level I do feel very
strongly that people shouldn't quit
667
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,621
- Is that why you don't want to leave?
- Yes
668
00:37:53,821 --> 00:37:59,005
and also I can't imagine
anywhere so nice as England
669
00:37:59,205 --> 00:38:03,310
Probably stay in England for the reasons that
John put forward, I think one has a moral duty
670
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:06,043
It sounds terrible
but, you know...if...
671
00:38:06,243 --> 00:38:09,158
It's up to one certainly
to make an attempt
672
00:38:09,358 --> 00:38:14,550
to put something back in to whatever
it is that you're doing in England
673
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:18,442
Having used the various facilities that
are put out for you by the state
674
00:38:18,642 --> 00:38:22,296
I think the more you've
had out of the country
675
00:38:22,496 --> 00:38:24,442
the more privileges
you're born with
676
00:38:24,642 --> 00:38:28,453
the greater your duty is
677
00:38:28,653 --> 00:38:31,842
We chose two boys from a
children's home in Middlesex
678
00:38:32,042 --> 00:38:33,126
Paul
679
00:38:33,127 --> 00:38:35,783
Say you had a wife
680
00:38:37,697 --> 00:38:41,606
say you had to eat
what they cooked you
681
00:38:41,806 --> 00:38:46,114
and say I don't like
vegetables, well I don't
682
00:38:46,314 --> 00:38:51,000
and say she said "you have
to eat what you get"
683
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:57,134
So I don't like vegetables so say she
gives me vegetables then that's it
684
00:38:57,334 --> 00:38:59,410
Well as far as I know my
mother and father got...
685
00:38:59,610 --> 00:39:03,574
well they separated
originally I think
686
00:39:03,798 --> 00:39:05,723
they eventually got divorced
687
00:39:05,923 --> 00:39:10,728
I went to the boarding school for one
year then we emigrated to Australia
688
00:39:10,928 --> 00:39:14,657
my father got remarried
689
00:39:14,885 --> 00:39:17,519
and how do you get on
with your step-mum?
690
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,554
Pretty well but like I said
before I'm just not close enough
691
00:39:21,754 --> 00:39:24,852
I'm not really close
to my father either
692
00:39:25,052 --> 00:39:27,682
Paul left the children's home
when he was eight
693
00:39:27,882 --> 00:39:30,323
Our other boy stayed
until he was thirteen
694
00:39:30,523 --> 00:39:31,873
Symon
695
00:39:32,637 --> 00:39:35,718
Was it difficult moving from the
home back to live with your mother?
696
00:39:35,918 --> 00:39:39,478
- You're still here after, eight years now?
- Yeah yeah
697
00:39:39,678 --> 00:39:42,822
Well I find it's comfortable
698
00:39:43,022 --> 00:39:47,356
See I can get on well with
my mother sometimes
699
00:39:47,556 --> 00:39:49,631
well that's good
because a lot of...
700
00:39:49,831 --> 00:39:54,717
young children can't get on with their parents
at all at this time of the year, their life
701
00:39:54,917 --> 00:39:58,843
but I get on pretty
well with my mum now
702
00:39:59,043 --> 00:40:01,020
we talk very well with each other
703
00:40:01,220 --> 00:40:02,473
but it's..
704
00:40:02,474 --> 00:40:05,149
Sometimes not quite
as mother and son
705
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:07,009
sort of more like friends
706
00:40:07,209 --> 00:40:09,304
What sort of life does
your mother have?
707
00:40:09,504 --> 00:40:13,602
Well it seems hard, I mean
she's always been...
708
00:40:13,802 --> 00:40:15,304
nervous
709
00:40:15,305 --> 00:40:16,802
not all the time, but...
710
00:40:17,002 --> 00:40:22,141
she has periods of depression or deep
depression or whatever you want to call it
711
00:40:22,341 --> 00:40:25,594
that sort of makes me think
"well what happened there?"
712
00:40:25,794 --> 00:40:27,992
What effect has that
had on you do you think?
713
00:40:28,192 --> 00:40:32,097
Well it's made me very sort
of protective towards her
714
00:40:32,297 --> 00:40:35,350
I feel I've got to
help her all the time
715
00:40:35,550 --> 00:40:37,778
They say "Where's your
father then?"
716
00:40:37,978 --> 00:40:41,193
You know when your mums out at
work "Where's your father?"
717
00:40:41,393 --> 00:40:45,713
and I just tell them
I ain't got one
718
00:40:49,233 --> 00:40:52,759
What effect has that had on you?
719
00:40:52,959 --> 00:40:57,997
Well I don't think it's had
any effect on me, 'cause...
720
00:40:58,227 --> 00:41:00,783
what you don't have
you don't miss
721
00:41:00,983 --> 00:41:03,464
Twenty years ago
722
00:41:04,602 --> 00:41:06,082
when I was born
723
00:41:06,538 --> 00:41:08,209
an illegitimate child, you know
724
00:41:08,409 --> 00:41:11,668
that's something that's
only whispered about
725
00:41:11,868 --> 00:41:15,791
people feel strongly
about it in those days
726
00:41:15,991 --> 00:41:18,827
but nowadays it's..
727
00:41:20,062 --> 00:41:21,155
It's not a serious matter
728
00:41:21,355 --> 00:41:24,833
the serious point is whether you
stay with someone or you leave them
729
00:41:25,033 --> 00:41:28,635
We took Paul and Symon round the buildings
which were once the children's home
730
00:41:28,835 --> 00:41:32,199
I remember this path but I've
never walked on it was out of bounds
731
00:41:32,399 --> 00:41:35,522
the only place I saw this was
from out the windows and that
732
00:41:35,722 --> 00:41:38,095
- What was that there?
- That? That was eh...
733
00:41:38,295 --> 00:41:40,765
That was hospital juniors,
that's where we used to be
734
00:41:40,965 --> 00:41:42,473
- Really?
- Yeah
735
00:41:42,474 --> 00:41:44,685
I don't like the big boys
736
00:41:44,885 --> 00:41:46,609
Hitting us and...
737
00:41:46,610 --> 00:41:48,815
and the staff is up
in the washroom
738
00:41:49,015 --> 00:41:52,013
sends the nurse out,
"well there's no talking"
739
00:41:52,213 --> 00:41:54,068
"No I wasn't talking today"
740
00:41:54,268 --> 00:41:58,496
Then Brown sent
me out for nothing
741
00:42:02,754 --> 00:42:04,257
Remember the tiles?
742
00:42:04,258 --> 00:42:06,761
- No not really - Yeah I remember
them when they were cleaner
743
00:42:06,961 --> 00:42:11,359
- I remember the two offices
- Yeah the doctors and the nurses
744
00:42:11,559 --> 00:42:13,243
Some things gone
745
00:42:13,244 --> 00:42:15,404
- The seats
- Yeah the seats
746
00:42:15,604 --> 00:42:18,821
The smell, the smells gone
747
00:42:19,021 --> 00:42:20,710
- Remember Midgely
- Yeah
748
00:42:20,910 --> 00:42:23,008
He was a real bastard
749
00:42:23,208 --> 00:42:25,609
I remember one night,
I forget what I actually did
750
00:42:25,809 --> 00:42:28,378
But he made me clean
all the shoes in the house
751
00:42:28,578 --> 00:42:32,109
there was about fifty pair of shoes
and took about two hours or something
752
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:38,504
Well I feel like joining in
when there's already a fight
753
00:42:38,704 --> 00:42:40,334
Ah do you remember Froggy Page?
754
00:42:40,534 --> 00:42:41,539
No
755
00:42:42,336 --> 00:42:44,250
He was the tailor
756
00:42:44,251 --> 00:42:45,798
- I remember him
- Tailor?
757
00:42:45,998 --> 00:42:48,191
Yeah he was here for thirty-seven
years or something
758
00:42:48,391 --> 00:42:51,814
bent over backwards or bent
over forwards or something
759
00:42:52,014 --> 00:42:53,562
- The golf course
- Yeah
760
00:42:53,762 --> 00:42:56,825
Used to think about running away
over that when you'd get scared
761
00:42:57,025 --> 00:43:00,586
That's where the headmaster's son used to shoot
the squirrel's off the trees isn't it - yeah
762
00:43:00,786 --> 00:43:02,400
Do you remember the boy that
763
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,986
in the senior part
764
00:43:04,987 --> 00:43:06,434
where my brother was, he
765
00:43:06,634 --> 00:43:10,238
he was sleeping one time and he
went out the second story window
766
00:43:10,438 --> 00:43:13,022
Oh the sleep walker,
Weaver, Robert Weaver
767
00:43:13,222 --> 00:43:16,613
- We all had to pray for him
- Yeah
768
00:43:16,813 --> 00:43:19,111
- Everybody said he had a steel
plate in his head - Yeah
769
00:43:19,311 --> 00:43:24,481
How have you got on with Symon? after
you haven't seen him for fourteen years
770
00:43:24,681 --> 00:43:28,612
Well I didn't recognise him at all
771
00:43:28,812 --> 00:43:33,200
I think we got along really well, I
don't know what he'd say to that but
772
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,705
I found him very likeable
773
00:43:38,706 --> 00:43:43,477
He's just the sort of person who if I
could I'd like to do something for them
774
00:43:43,677 --> 00:43:48,007
Because I feel I've got, no offence to
him, but I feel I've got more than him
775
00:43:48,207 --> 00:43:50,549
It's just that it
seems to me that
776
00:43:50,749 --> 00:43:54,128
things have fallen
into line now for me
777
00:43:54,328 --> 00:43:58,467
Every thing's started to come
good, I've started to enjoy life
778
00:43:58,667 --> 00:44:02,229
and I've started to think
"well I'm not a no hoper"
779
00:44:02,429 --> 00:44:06,230
Because I think that's what
I've always thought about myself
780
00:44:06,430 --> 00:44:09,338
I know I didn't have
any confidence in myself
781
00:44:09,538 --> 00:44:12,173
despite what I said
when I was fourteen
782
00:44:12,373 --> 00:44:14,155
I've always lacked confidence
783
00:44:14,355 --> 00:44:17,246
I still do to a certain
extent but nothing
784
00:44:17,446 --> 00:44:21,921
nothing like I did say
when I was fourteen
785
00:44:22,121 --> 00:44:25,537
The job I'm in, I
mean, brick laying
786
00:44:25,737 --> 00:44:29,795
I mean I enjoy it,
it interests me
787
00:44:29,995 --> 00:44:33,583
and I'm very content at work
788
00:44:34,354 --> 00:44:39,004
in June last year I was
made a junior partner
789
00:44:39,204 --> 00:44:42,172
though that was
through circumstances
790
00:44:42,372 --> 00:44:44,545
but I look at it this way
791
00:44:44,745 --> 00:44:46,494
I'm not great with my life
792
00:44:46,694 --> 00:44:49,701
but if I wasn't good enough and
my boss didn't think I was good enough
793
00:44:49,901 --> 00:44:51,995
he would've never made
me a junior partner
794
00:44:52,195 --> 00:44:53,856
as for the job
795
00:44:53,857 --> 00:44:55,258
you know, you build a house
796
00:44:55,458 --> 00:44:57,730
then you turn around and look
at it and say "well I did that"
797
00:44:57,930 --> 00:45:00,677
it's better than having
a whole row of figures
798
00:45:00,877 --> 00:45:04,695
it's substance you know,
there's something there
799
00:45:05,390 --> 00:45:10,614
Symon works in the freezer room of a
meat company near his home in Middlesex
800
00:45:10,814 --> 00:45:14,395
My job's running away from me
801
00:45:15,590 --> 00:45:19,360
You do jobs which I suppose
are fairly routine and dull
802
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,545
- Yeah
- What keeps you going during them?
803
00:45:23,745 --> 00:45:26,745
Oh it's definitely
the people there
804
00:45:26,945 --> 00:45:30,536
You work up a kind of team
spirit there, y'know what I mean
805
00:45:30,736 --> 00:45:32,595
You can...
806
00:45:33,876 --> 00:45:36,284
think about all the work
you've got to do in the morning
807
00:45:36,484 --> 00:45:38,008
and you just don't want to go
808
00:45:38,208 --> 00:45:41,032
but once you get there
just sort of generally...
809
00:45:41,232 --> 00:45:43,627
I was going to say messing around
there, I won't say that
810
00:45:43,827 --> 00:45:45,190
the managers might see it
811
00:45:45,390 --> 00:45:46,966
sort of joking about
812
00:45:46,967 --> 00:45:50,128
they make you feel you
want to get the work done
813
00:45:50,328 --> 00:45:51,500
Go out and get some
814
00:45:52,897 --> 00:45:54,081
just ask for them
815
00:45:54,082 --> 00:45:57,473
and we always say
816
00:45:57,992 --> 00:46:00,897
when we come out of the chiller
we don't want to go back in
817
00:46:01,097 --> 00:46:05,490
but when we get
back in we get on with it
818
00:46:06,136 --> 00:46:08,171
So are you a good time keeper?
819
00:46:08,371 --> 00:46:09,936
Ah it depends
820
00:46:10,118 --> 00:46:11,770
Usually I try to get
to work early
821
00:46:11,970 --> 00:46:15,952
but I have periods of
where I just say "sod it"
822
00:46:16,152 --> 00:46:19,330
if I get there I get there
823
00:46:19,530 --> 00:46:22,014
I think the hardest thing
is to get up in the morning
824
00:46:22,214 --> 00:46:24,089
for me it takes a great
deal out of me now
825
00:46:24,289 --> 00:46:27,386
Do you never feel you should
be doing better jobs than these?
826
00:46:27,586 --> 00:46:31,127
Aren't you worth more than this?
827
00:46:33,392 --> 00:46:35,667
No I haven't really
828
00:46:35,668 --> 00:46:37,947
I suppose I just like hard
work, I don't know
829
00:46:38,147 --> 00:46:39,753
But eh...
830
00:46:40,727 --> 00:46:43,576
It's never really
sort of worried me
831
00:46:43,776 --> 00:46:47,933
I suppose it should
but it just hasn't
832
00:46:48,133 --> 00:46:52,364
and how do you see the
future as far as work goes?
833
00:46:54,093 --> 00:46:57,979
Well I know I can't stay at Walls
forever, I mean it's just not me
834
00:46:58,179 --> 00:47:02,588
I couldn't stay there for that
long, my mind would go dead
835
00:47:02,788 --> 00:47:04,244
But eh...
836
00:47:07,226 --> 00:47:11,647
I think if I really wanted to
I could learn a trade, even now
837
00:47:11,847 --> 00:47:18,019
Y'know if I really felt that I ought
to get out and do something different
838
00:47:18,219 --> 00:47:21,085
I could learn a
trade if I wanted to
839
00:47:21,285 --> 00:47:26,493
and what would you like to
be doing say in seven years?
840
00:47:29,485 --> 00:47:34,195
Well I couldn't really say I haven't
thought one year ahead yet
841
00:47:34,395 --> 00:47:36,863
I think I'm still sort
of young in my head
842
00:47:37,063 --> 00:47:39,463
I don't really sort of
take things seriously
843
00:47:39,663 --> 00:47:41,686
All I want out of
life is to be happy
844
00:47:41,886 --> 00:47:45,265
and when I say happy I want
to be happily married as well
845
00:47:45,465 --> 00:47:49,766
because I can't say I
don't want to get married
846
00:47:49,966 --> 00:47:51,613
because I think I do
847
00:47:51,614 --> 00:47:53,296
but I want to be
happily married y'know
848
00:47:53,496 --> 00:47:55,678
therefore I want to
make sure I think
849
00:47:55,878 --> 00:48:00,146
How would you define
happiness? What is it?
850
00:48:01,784 --> 00:48:06,484
Basically to me it's
the will to live
851
00:48:06,708 --> 00:48:10,094
I mean, me I literally
love life, I love people
852
00:48:10,294 --> 00:48:12,343
I mean I think before I didn't
853
00:48:12,543 --> 00:48:15,190
I mean, when I
was fourteen I said
854
00:48:15,390 --> 00:48:18,580
I've forgotten what the
question was but I said
855
00:48:18,780 --> 00:48:20,263
something about I
want to be alone
856
00:48:20,463 --> 00:48:24,154
and when I said that I know
even now I meant that
857
00:48:24,354 --> 00:48:27,404
if someone had dropped
me out in the Sahara Desert
858
00:48:27,604 --> 00:48:31,374
I probably would've been happy
more or less if you get the point
859
00:48:31,574 --> 00:48:33,735
Whereas I'm not like that now,
I'd sooner be around people
860
00:48:33,935 --> 00:48:38,355
I don't like doing
things by myself
861
00:48:38,693 --> 00:48:45,495
and happiness to me is a love
for life and a love for people
862
00:48:45,695 --> 00:48:49,071
I think I admire people
with great determination
863
00:48:49,271 --> 00:48:52,217
y'know like people who just
come up from nothing
864
00:48:52,417 --> 00:48:56,571
they build up their life
from absolutely nothing
865
00:48:59,635 --> 00:49:01,693
I could say Muhammad Ali
866
00:49:01,893 --> 00:49:05,916
because he absolutely
came from nothing
867
00:49:06,116 --> 00:49:10,591
I mean you can't agree with everything
he says but his word goes down now
868
00:49:10,791 --> 00:49:16,834
he's the biggest thing in sport
he's one of the biggest things in life
869
00:49:17,572 --> 00:49:20,600
I mean people like him
870
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:29,274
What when you look at yourself do you
think your weaknesses and strengths are?
871
00:49:36,838 --> 00:49:40,254
I think my main weakness is
I don't really take a grip of life
872
00:49:40,454 --> 00:49:43,262
I don't really look...
873
00:49:43,462 --> 00:49:47,753
I always look deeply into
it but it just seems to be...
874
00:49:47,953 --> 00:49:52,174
just a sort of hobby with me, I
look at everything and I criticise it
875
00:49:52,374 --> 00:49:56,485
and I work everything out but
after that I just sort of leave it
876
00:49:56,685 --> 00:49:59,614
I find it hard to express
emotion most of the time
877
00:49:59,814 --> 00:50:02,182
although I'm getting
on top of that
878
00:50:02,382 --> 00:50:04,249
more happy now?
879
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,258
Just the simple things to say to Susan,
y'know "I love you" or something like that
880
00:50:09,458 --> 00:50:12,305
I mean I can tell
you about it but
881
00:50:12,505 --> 00:50:16,946
I really haven't been able
to say it freely to Susan
882
00:50:17,146 --> 00:50:19,381
I suppose that's a weakness
883
00:50:19,581 --> 00:50:21,076
Do you have a dream?
884
00:50:22,103 --> 00:50:23,197
A dream? not...
885
00:50:23,198 --> 00:50:29,490
Not so much a dream but I know
if I ever wanted to get on I could do it
886
00:50:29,690 --> 00:50:35,183
I mean I always feel that I've got something
inside me that would make me move
887
00:50:35,383 --> 00:50:37,272
But eh...
888
00:50:38,372 --> 00:50:41,373
I think what it is really is I'm just
waiting for an excuse to use it
889
00:50:41,573 --> 00:50:46,864
Y'know at the moment I feel
ok just getting on with my life
890
00:50:47,064 --> 00:50:49,315
just sort of keeping up
891
00:50:49,515 --> 00:50:52,841
but I know if I really
wanted to I could get on
892
00:50:53,041 --> 00:50:57,438
It'll only take a little
spark with me to do it
893
00:51:00,498 --> 00:51:05,115
Is it important to fight? Yes
894
00:51:14,629 --> 00:51:17,854
Would everybody please sit round
now and get on with their work
895
00:51:18,054 --> 00:51:21,419
I don't want to see
any backs to me
896
00:51:21,619 --> 00:51:26,297
Shouldn't be anybody turning
round, Tony do you hear aswell?
897
00:51:26,497 --> 00:51:29,333
Get on with your work in front
898
00:51:29,533 --> 00:51:31,083
Tony!
899
00:51:31,464 --> 00:51:33,668
Don't turn round again
900
00:51:33,868 --> 00:51:38,576
I want to be a jockey when I grow up
yeah I want to be a jockey when I grow up
901
00:51:43,801 --> 00:51:46,854
Tony left his Eastend secondary
modern school at fifteen
902
00:51:47,054 --> 00:51:52,408
and became an apprentice at
Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom
903
00:51:56,566 --> 00:52:01,094
This is a photo finish of
when I rode at Newberry
904
00:52:01,657 --> 00:52:02,907
I'm the one with the white cap
905
00:52:03,107 --> 00:52:07,092
I was beaten a length and a half
for third and had a photo finish
906
00:52:07,292 --> 00:52:09,756
so I took it out the box and
kept it as a souvenir
907
00:52:09,956 --> 00:52:11,797
Have you any other pictures
of you as a jockey?
908
00:52:11,997 --> 00:52:14,798
Yeah I've got a lot of them
909
00:52:14,998 --> 00:52:16,149
Show me that one
910
00:52:17,293 --> 00:52:19,800
That one when I was at Windsor
911
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,222
that was my last ride on the old
horse, Sharrod Heath that was
912
00:52:23,422 --> 00:52:25,688
he was a lovely old horse,
I'll never forget him
913
00:52:25,888 --> 00:52:27,734
How many rides did you have?
914
00:52:27,934 --> 00:52:29,119
Only three
915
00:52:29,635 --> 00:52:30,970
Why was that?
916
00:52:31,202 --> 00:52:33,708
Well obviously if I was good
enough I would've had more
917
00:52:33,908 --> 00:52:38,043
that was the first day I ever
put myself in jockey silks
918
00:52:38,243 --> 00:52:40,045
that was my first ride ever
919
00:52:40,245 --> 00:52:41,805
How did it feel like?
920
00:52:42,005 --> 00:52:45,565
It feel like there's no words
that can explain how it felt
921
00:52:45,765 --> 00:52:49,362
that one was when I
was going to the parade ring
922
00:52:49,562 --> 00:52:51,518
They're not very good
923
00:52:51,718 --> 00:52:54,675
my brother, I mean he's not
no good at taking photos
924
00:52:54,875 --> 00:52:56,680
He's no Lord Snowdon
925
00:52:56,681 --> 00:52:58,331
But describe the feeling, go on
926
00:52:58,531 --> 00:53:00,298
Describe, well...I mean I..
927
00:53:00,498 --> 00:53:03,331
Frankie Durr right, he was
told to look after me
928
00:53:03,531 --> 00:53:06,039
so I went in there I said "I
don't know my first ride"
929
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,742
and he said "alright don't worry, your
boss has told me to look after you"
930
00:53:10,942 --> 00:53:11,888
and so
931
00:53:11,889 --> 00:53:13,796
I was changing into my silks
932
00:53:13,996 --> 00:53:17,083
and I felt good y'know, I could
see all the faces that I think
933
00:53:17,283 --> 00:53:20,669
and when I look at the newspaper I
think, Jeff Lewis, Frankie Durr and...
934
00:53:20,869 --> 00:53:24,199
I thought to myself all of a sudden I'm
in the same room getting changed
935
00:53:24,399 --> 00:53:25,796
Then I walked in the parade room
936
00:53:25,996 --> 00:53:27,489
the parade ring and eh...
937
00:53:27,689 --> 00:53:30,958
and all my family's there and
they're all going "Go on Tone!"
938
00:53:31,158 --> 00:53:32,591
and the boss came over and he said
939
00:53:32,791 --> 00:53:35,500
you've got to do this to the horse,
you hold him back, you go half pace
940
00:53:35,700 --> 00:53:37,782
keep your hands down,
keep him in the rails
941
00:53:37,982 --> 00:53:39,769
and I'm going "yeah
yeah" like, nod
942
00:53:39,969 --> 00:53:42,945
and all of a sudden when he
said "Jockeys please mount"
943
00:53:43,145 --> 00:53:44,644
and the bell went "Ding ding"
944
00:53:44,844 --> 00:53:47,638
and my heart just sunk
because I thought to myself
945
00:53:47,838 --> 00:53:50,108
Here I was yesterday
a sort of nobody
946
00:53:50,308 --> 00:53:53,159
and here I am today, I'm king like
947
00:53:53,359 --> 00:53:55,973
I felt king for one day,
well for ten minutes
948
00:53:56,173 --> 00:53:57,825
Do you regret not making it?
949
00:53:58,025 --> 00:54:02,005
Well I would've given my right
arm at the time to become a jockey
950
00:54:02,205 --> 00:54:03,991
But now...
951
00:54:03,992 --> 00:54:07,000
well I wasn't good enough,
it's as easy as that
952
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,824
What will you do if you
don't make it as a jockey?
953
00:54:10,024 --> 00:54:11,635
I don't know
954
00:54:11,636 --> 00:54:15,700
If I knew I couldn't be
one I'd get out of the game
955
00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:17,509
wouldn't bother
956
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:20,112
and what do you think
you would do then?
957
00:54:20,312 --> 00:54:21,927
Learn taxi's
958
00:54:22,503 --> 00:54:24,468
Taxi driver
959
00:54:30,683 --> 00:54:33,261
I will be a cab driver
right, how can I fail?
960
00:54:33,461 --> 00:54:35,552
I got one brother
taxi driver pulling me
961
00:54:35,752 --> 00:54:39,137
and the other brother pushing
me so I got to make it
962
00:54:39,337 --> 00:54:41,466
I will be a cab driver
and I know I will
963
00:54:41,666 --> 00:54:45,253
and I'm going to prove every person
who thinks I can't be a cab driver wrong
964
00:54:45,453 --> 00:54:48,823
and I'm going to get that
badge and put it right in their face
965
00:54:49,023 --> 00:54:53,890
just to tell them how wrong they
can be and how under estimated I am
966
00:54:54,090 --> 00:54:57,858
Doing the taxi knowledge means Tony
going out on his motorbike every day
967
00:54:58,058 --> 00:55:00,665
and learning the hundreds of
routes round the streets of London
968
00:55:00,865 --> 00:55:04,101
Well I can just get up, go on my
bike, do two runs, come home
969
00:55:04,301 --> 00:55:10,359
call them over then boom, I've done my days
work then I go
out here and earn my money
970
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:12,891
Hackney Wick it's
my sort of living
971
00:55:13,091 --> 00:55:15,397
I can say until the time
I am a cab driver
972
00:55:15,597 --> 00:55:18,550
But mean my freedom's here and
that is the main thing what I want
973
00:55:18,750 --> 00:55:23,200
Tony spends his spare time at Hackney Wick
Greyhound Stadium placing bets for the punters
974
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,939
Fifty-five to twenty Boris
975
00:55:36,614 --> 00:55:39,436
Five to one Cooladine
976
00:55:39,636 --> 00:55:43,095
Four and a half fifty's,
four and a half fifty's
977
00:55:43,511 --> 00:55:45,557
Poor-Sunshine fourteen to one
978
00:55:45,757 --> 00:55:47,454
Take it, take it!
979
00:55:48,008 --> 00:55:50,861
If your father gambles you always
looked upon how he gambles
980
00:55:51,061 --> 00:55:53,503
I tried my luck and
see what he does
981
00:55:53,703 --> 00:55:56,000
and I took it from there,
it's sort of in you
982
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,248
some people drink and they can't get out of
drinking, some people smoke and can't stop smoking
983
00:56:00,448 --> 00:56:03,585
well I think I'm firmly on
the ground as a gambler
984
00:56:03,785 --> 00:56:07,265
I know you can't win gambling, putting
money on the dogs and horses, I know that
985
00:56:07,465 --> 00:56:10,882
But when you put other
peoples money on you can't lose
986
00:56:11,082 --> 00:56:12,375
What do they call you here?
987
00:56:12,575 --> 00:56:14,958
I reckon a pest, or
something like that
988
00:56:15,158 --> 00:56:19,396
'cause I'm always running and doing
everything that I shouldn't be doing
989
00:56:19,596 --> 00:56:22,465
I thought I was going to get
barred one day 'cause I used to...
990
00:56:22,665 --> 00:56:24,663
Well I don't mean to make
a nuisance of myself
991
00:56:24,863 --> 00:56:28,148
I mean if the other
patrons of the place
992
00:56:28,348 --> 00:56:30,981
they don't want to see a little
boy nipping between their feet
993
00:56:31,181 --> 00:56:33,449
running, putting a
bet on for a person
994
00:56:33,649 --> 00:56:36,075
You understand? they think "cor
what's he doing is he mad?"
995
00:56:36,275 --> 00:56:39,114
I mean I walk up there
I order the teas
996
00:56:39,314 --> 00:56:41,459
There could be eight people
in front of me, I just go...
997
00:56:41,659 --> 00:56:43,586
Can I have a tea please,
tea please, five times
998
00:56:43,786 --> 00:56:44,757
tea please tea please
999
00:56:44,957 --> 00:56:48,606
and they've got to serve me before them
to get rid of me, do you understand?
1000
00:56:48,806 --> 00:56:50,580
So that's how you've got to do it
1001
00:56:50,780 --> 00:56:53,096
Just keep on and on
and on and they go
1002
00:56:53,296 --> 00:56:56,613
"oh driving me mad, here you are,
get rid of him" it's as easy as that
1003
00:56:56,813 --> 00:57:00,157
That's the way to get on in
life, just be a noise, annoyed
1004
00:57:00,357 --> 00:57:04,913
annoyance all the time to a person and they go
"oh he's driving me mad, get him away from me
1005
00:57:05,113 --> 00:57:07,456
and more or less they
give you the first option
1006
00:57:07,656 --> 00:57:09,441
sort of find that
1007
00:57:09,677 --> 00:57:12,905
You're very short, has
that had much trouble?
1008
00:57:13,105 --> 00:57:15,218
Well a bird said
to me the other day
1009
00:57:15,418 --> 00:57:16,799
She said "ain't you small"
1010
00:57:16,999 --> 00:57:19,490
So I said "but you're ugly
at least I can grow"
1011
00:57:19,690 --> 00:57:22,731
What can they say to that? they
can't say nothing can they?
1012
00:57:22,931 --> 00:57:24,403
To a thing like that, or...
1013
00:57:24,603 --> 00:57:25,782
or example...
1014
00:57:25,783 --> 00:57:29,126
She said to me "Ain't you small" so I looked
at her tits and she was only about a thirty
1015
00:57:29,326 --> 00:57:32,521
I said "But you're not too big
either so we're both in the same way"
1016
00:57:32,721 --> 00:57:34,758
- Have you got a girlfriend?
- No
1017
00:57:34,958 --> 00:57:37,512
Would you like to
have a girlfriend?
1018
00:57:37,712 --> 00:57:38,538
No
1019
00:57:38,539 --> 00:57:40,037
Do you understand "The Four F's?"
1020
00:57:40,237 --> 00:57:42,216
Find the, feed them, forget them
1021
00:57:42,416 --> 00:57:45,279
for the other F I'll let you
use your own discrimination
1022
00:57:45,479 --> 00:57:46,297
I mean...
1023
00:57:46,298 --> 00:57:47,758
this one
1024
00:57:47,759 --> 00:57:49,813
I tried to do the three F's
1025
00:57:50,013 --> 00:57:52,038
but I couldn't forget her
1026
00:57:52,238 --> 00:57:54,606
I'd done the three F's
but I couldn't forget her
1027
00:57:54,806 --> 00:57:57,238
It sounds silly but that's
the only way I can put it
1028
00:57:57,438 --> 00:58:00,373
Tell me about the family,
are you fairly closely knit?
1029
00:58:00,573 --> 00:58:02,094
Well I love them all
1030
00:58:02,095 --> 00:58:05,186
There's not one I don't love more than
the other, other than my mum obviously
1031
00:58:05,386 --> 00:58:09,676
but your mum is the root of the
tree, you love your mum best
1032
00:58:09,876 --> 00:58:12,090
So what do you like about
living in the Eastend?
1033
00:58:12,290 --> 00:58:15,444
It's very sort of real,
there's nothing false
1034
00:58:15,644 --> 00:58:17,516
only the police!
1035
00:58:17,877 --> 00:58:21,787
I'm firmly placed and there's no way I can see
getting out, I wouldn't want to get out really
1036
00:58:21,987 --> 00:58:27,150
It's very hard to make it in the Eastend because
the roots are firmly stuck in the ground
1037
00:58:27,350 --> 00:58:29,401
and you've got to have a
big hard pull to get them out
1038
00:58:29,601 --> 00:58:32,265
So are there many
villains in the Eastend?
1039
00:58:32,465 --> 00:58:34,412
There has been in
the time I suppose
1040
00:58:34,612 --> 00:58:37,122
the originals were
the Kray twins
1041
00:58:37,322 --> 00:58:39,714
We're in Vallance Rd now, as
it goes they used to live here
1042
00:58:39,914 --> 00:58:42,909
in a house they used
to call Fort Vallance
1043
00:58:43,109 --> 00:58:45,609
'cause it was that hard
to get into I expect
1044
00:58:45,809 --> 00:58:47,567
Do you have much
to do with villains?
1045
00:58:47,767 --> 00:58:51,151
I can't say I have much to do,
I wouldn't say I'm a villain myself
1046
00:58:51,351 --> 00:58:54,288
I don't go thieving and don't do
anybody any harm fighting wise
1047
00:58:54,488 --> 00:58:56,091
I'm trying to say that
1048
00:58:56,291 --> 00:59:01,236
Wherever you go there's villains and whether
you mix with them or not it's up to you
1049
00:59:01,436 --> 00:59:04,423
Does it worry you the possibility
of becoming one of them?
1050
00:59:04,623 --> 00:59:06,546
How can I become a villain?
1051
00:59:06,746 --> 00:59:09,449
If it's not in there, it's not born
in there you won't become one
1052
00:59:09,649 --> 00:59:12,582
Don't you think you're going to
regret not having an education?
1053
00:59:12,782 --> 00:59:15,399
Where does that come into it?
It doesn't come into it in my mind?
1054
00:59:15,599 --> 00:59:19,471
Education is just a thing to say
"my son is higher than him"
1055
00:59:19,671 --> 00:59:21,788
or "my son had a better
background than him"
1056
00:59:21,988 --> 00:59:23,528
I mean
1057
00:59:23,529 --> 00:59:26,688
I'm as good or even better
than most of them people
1058
00:59:26,888 --> 00:59:29,095
especially on this program
1059
00:59:29,295 --> 00:59:30,295
I mean
1060
00:59:30,507 --> 00:59:32,102
On one of the trailers
you'll think
1061
00:59:32,302 --> 00:59:35,044
oh the Eastend boy and he
ain't got a no good education
1062
00:59:35,244 --> 00:59:38,900
but all of a sudden the Eastend boy's got a car
and a motorbike and he goes to Spain every year
1063
00:59:39,100 --> 00:59:40,415
and whatever
1064
00:59:40,749 --> 00:59:42,218
and have I worked for it?
1065
00:59:42,418 --> 00:59:43,871
No I'm here putting bets on
1066
00:59:44,071 --> 00:59:45,697
and you think "how
does he do it?"
1067
00:59:45,897 --> 00:59:47,963
and there's a boy,
who's he? and whatever
1068
00:59:48,163 --> 00:59:51,858
he's studying to be a
professor, he's making up things
1069
00:59:52,058 --> 00:59:54,515
They're mainly education, there's
no education in this world
1070
00:59:54,715 --> 00:59:56,684
Just one big rat
race and you've got to
1071
00:59:56,884 --> 00:59:59,722
kill your man next to you
to get in front of him
1072
00:59:59,922 --> 01:00:03,165
What do you think about trade
unions and things like that?
1073
01:00:03,365 --> 01:00:05,711
I don't under know I don't
1074
01:00:05,911 --> 01:00:08,776
I don't know enough to know about
them if you understand me
1075
01:00:08,976 --> 01:00:10,206
I mean
1076
01:00:10,207 --> 01:00:14,598
I'm not a politician so let them worry
about what's coming for the next day
1077
01:00:14,798 --> 01:00:16,115
all I understand is
1078
01:00:16,116 --> 01:00:21,653
dogs, prices, girls, knowledge, roads,
streets, squares and mum and dad and love
1079
01:00:21,853 --> 01:00:26,277
that's all I understand that's
all I want to understand
1080
01:00:32,069 --> 01:00:33,401
Here you are
1081
01:00:36,584 --> 01:00:38,826
Come on three chase it
1082
01:00:39,026 --> 01:00:40,652
Come on boy
1083
01:00:41,153 --> 01:00:43,163
Go on three inside
1084
01:00:45,417 --> 01:00:47,363
Come on three???
1085
01:00:47,988 --> 01:00:49,979
He's checking everywhere...
1086
01:00:50,179 --> 01:00:52,735
Well going to Africa
1087
01:00:52,736 --> 01:00:57,208
and try and teach people
who are not civilised
1088
01:00:57,408 --> 01:01:00,470
to be more or less good
1089
01:01:00,670 --> 01:01:05,570
No I don't want to be a missionary because
I just can't talk about it to people
1090
01:01:05,770 --> 01:01:11,580
Y'know, I am interested in it myself
but I wouldn't be very good at it at all
1091
01:01:11,780 --> 01:01:14,151
and I wouldn't enjoy it
1092
01:01:14,351 --> 01:01:17,742
Why wouldn't you be good at it
1093
01:01:17,942 --> 01:01:20,650
Well I'm just not
very good at...
1094
01:01:20,850 --> 01:01:25,798
at standing up in front of people and
making a speech or anything like that
1095
01:01:25,998 --> 01:01:28,442
I'd like to keep it
private, y'know
1096
01:01:28,642 --> 01:01:33,527
Is it possible you might ever
think of going to the church?
1097
01:01:34,014 --> 01:01:37,320
It is possible, I've
never said no definitely
1098
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:41,166
But I wouldn't be doing it
after I go to university
1099
01:01:41,366 --> 01:01:47,255
I mean it's just possible in
ten years time I suppose
1100
01:01:47,573 --> 01:01:51,411
What would draw
you to the church?
1101
01:01:52,347 --> 01:01:57,984
I don't know, it wouldn't be dissatisfaction
with whatever I'm doing at the moment
1102
01:01:58,184 --> 01:01:59,934
In a way
1103
01:02:00,201 --> 01:02:04,859
If whatever I was doing I
was doing very successfully
1104
01:02:05,059 --> 01:02:08,287
then that would be a better reason
for going into the church really
1105
01:02:08,487 --> 01:02:11,853
or at least if I did go into the church
it would meant I was giving something up
1106
01:02:12,053 --> 01:02:13,368
But
1107
01:02:14,862 --> 01:02:18,850
I think the wrong reasons are if you
are dissatisfied with what you're doing
1108
01:02:19,050 --> 01:02:23,949
in the general sense
of doing a job badly or
1109
01:02:24,149 --> 01:02:26,902
a failure in some sort of way
1110
01:02:27,102 --> 01:02:32,213
Bruce is in his final year at University
College Oxford, reading mathematics
1111
01:02:32,413 --> 01:02:37,933
and by Eisenstien you can
show that this is irreducible
1112
01:02:38,133 --> 01:02:43,069
then you do a transformation
on this???? x = to T+2
1113
01:02:43,269 --> 01:02:48,315
which you find is T cubed plus
17 squared plus 14 T plus 7
1114
01:02:48,515 --> 01:02:49,314
and
1115
01:02:49,315 --> 01:02:52,005
you observe that
seven which is a prime
1116
01:02:52,205 --> 01:02:54,551
divides the co-efficient
of T squared
1117
01:02:54,751 --> 01:02:57,491
T and the constant, not T cubed
1118
01:02:57,691 --> 01:03:01,927
and seven squared doesn't
divide the constant term
1119
01:03:02,127 --> 01:03:04,311
so by Eisenstien
1120
01:03:04,312 --> 01:03:06,108
this is irreducible
1121
01:03:06,656 --> 01:03:10,207
so therefore two cross, two
by seven is of degree three
1122
01:03:10,407 --> 01:03:13,397
and that length
isn't constructable
1123
01:03:13,597 --> 01:03:15,519
from the quarry of
our original theorem
1124
01:03:15,719 --> 01:03:17,463
so therefore the
septagon's not constructable
1125
01:03:17,663 --> 01:03:21,296
Well that's a nice way of doing it,
particularly using Eisenstien down here
1126
01:03:21,496 --> 01:03:24,779
his test is very popular, he
was an interesting mathematician
1127
01:03:24,979 --> 01:03:29,598
What sort of job are
you going to try for?
1128
01:03:30,367 --> 01:03:35,380
Well there was one job, I'd
like to make maps really
1129
01:03:35,580 --> 01:03:39,788
and it's nice sort
of outdoor life
1130
01:03:39,988 --> 01:03:42,598
you go to...I mean
you travel around
1131
01:03:42,798 --> 01:03:43,938
and eh...
1132
01:03:44,407 --> 01:03:46,656
but there are very
few jobs like that going
1133
01:03:46,856 --> 01:03:50,538
I'm sort of qualified, a general maths
or science degree would do
1134
01:03:50,738 --> 01:03:52,912
or geography degree
1135
01:03:53,293 --> 01:03:54,847
But eh...
1136
01:03:57,814 --> 01:04:01,244
I think I've probably
missed it this time round
1137
01:04:01,444 --> 01:04:03,146
and eh...but that's only...
1138
01:04:03,346 --> 01:04:08,104
perhaps I won't like making maps,
it's something that I think I would do
1139
01:04:16,312 --> 01:04:20,062
Millbrook probably had a
great influence on me in a way
1140
01:04:20,262 --> 01:04:23,389
I mean I was absolutely shocked
rigid when I went to my prep school
1141
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:26,197
and found people who
thought of doing things wrong
1142
01:04:26,397 --> 01:04:29,936
I never really upset anyone
or questioned authority
1143
01:04:30,136 --> 01:04:33,690
or misbehaved in any
of my two later schools
1144
01:04:33,890 --> 01:04:40,842
which may seem an ideal thing but it's probably
healthy to question why you have to do certain things
1145
01:04:41,042 --> 01:04:42,755
which I never did
1146
01:04:42,756 --> 01:04:47,997
Bruce was a border at this pre-preparatory
school from the age of five
1147
01:04:48,197 --> 01:04:51,870
Squad left foot in one place
1148
01:04:52,294 --> 01:04:53,892
squad breathe in
1149
01:04:53,893 --> 01:04:57,037
Well it is mainly this
lack of responsibility
1150
01:04:57,237 --> 01:04:58,637
for doing jobs given to me
1151
01:04:58,837 --> 01:05:01,864
people will say "why haven't you
done this? Look you've upset us"
1152
01:05:02,064 --> 01:05:08,249
I was secretary of bridge society,
chess society, cricket society
1153
01:05:08,449 --> 01:05:10,395
Scottish dancing society
1154
01:05:10,595 --> 01:05:14,474
and I didn't do anything for any
of them, they were all very angry
1155
01:05:14,674 --> 01:05:18,706
and I spent last summer
term in total seclusion
1156
01:05:18,906 --> 01:05:21,219
I saw maybe half a
dozen people all term
1157
01:05:21,419 --> 01:05:23,964
in my room, darting
across courts
1158
01:05:24,164 --> 01:05:29,192
people would say "I saw Balden
today" and they'd say "No? really?"
1159
01:05:29,392 --> 01:05:31,017
it was awful really
1160
01:05:31,018 --> 01:05:36,630
My hearts desire is to see my
daddy who is six thousand miles away
1161
01:05:36,830 --> 01:05:40,771
Y'know I've been getting
on well with my step-father
1162
01:05:40,971 --> 01:05:43,784
and I like seeing my
father occasionally
1163
01:05:43,984 --> 01:05:46,297
and he does come
over from Rhodesia
1164
01:05:46,497 --> 01:05:53,359
What effect has the fact that you've
seen very little of your father had on you?
1165
01:05:53,559 --> 01:05:56,426
Nothing really, I only
something I regret that...
1166
01:05:56,626 --> 01:06:01,614
I didn't really get to
know him better at all
1167
01:06:02,235 --> 01:06:06,580
We've written and we're both very
bad writers, I'm probably worse than him
1168
01:06:06,780 --> 01:06:07,841
and eh...
1169
01:06:08,243 --> 01:06:13,610
that's something I regret is not
having a just a regular correspondence
1170
01:06:13,810 --> 01:06:17,783
because I think he's an
interesting man actually
1171
01:06:17,983 --> 01:06:19,472
and eh...
1172
01:06:20,222 --> 01:06:21,936
he probably regrets it as well
1173
01:06:22,136 --> 01:06:24,317
What do you think about
your own upbringing?
1174
01:06:24,517 --> 01:06:28,938
What have been the strongest
influences on that?
1175
01:06:29,138 --> 01:06:33,205
Probably to not let
down my mother really
1176
01:06:33,405 --> 01:06:38,015
because she's worked awfully
hard to get me through school
1177
01:06:38,215 --> 01:06:39,215
and
1178
01:06:39,693 --> 01:06:43,307
I haven't let her down yet
1179
01:06:45,066 --> 01:06:46,110
then..
1180
01:06:46,111 --> 01:06:50,259
As far as...eh
not having...
1181
01:06:50,459 --> 01:06:53,008
my mothers divorce
1182
01:06:53,009 --> 01:06:56,997
I don't think that really has the
effect that people imagine it to have
1183
01:06:57,197 --> 01:07:01,695
I mean I always have got
on well with my stepfather
1184
01:07:01,895 --> 01:07:07,307
and with my half-sister, so in
that sense I've had a family life
1185
01:07:07,507 --> 01:07:11,803
I'd help people
if I had a chance
1186
01:07:12,543 --> 01:07:17,393
Y'know by say giving a little bit of
money to charity or sponsoring things
1187
01:07:17,593 --> 01:07:19,246
or things like that
1188
01:07:19,247 --> 01:07:22,617
Well I took nine months off
1189
01:07:22,817 --> 01:07:26,498
between school and university
1190
01:07:26,698 --> 01:07:32,727
and there I taught at a school and
worked in the Banbury sewage works
1191
01:07:32,927 --> 01:07:35,231
two months
1192
01:07:35,618 --> 01:07:37,767
What sort of school was it?
1193
01:07:37,967 --> 01:07:41,129
Well I never like admitting this
but it was a handicapped school
1194
01:07:41,329 --> 01:07:43,939
I mean
1195
01:07:43,940 --> 01:07:47,507
it seems to present me as
wanting to do these things
1196
01:07:47,707 --> 01:07:49,243
I suppose in a way I do, and
1197
01:07:49,443 --> 01:07:54,091
I do get some satisfaction
from doing it, but...
1198
01:07:54,291 --> 01:07:56,550
I could so easily have
done something else
1199
01:07:56,750 --> 01:08:02,597
it was just almost an accident that
I ended up at the spastic school
1200
01:08:02,797 --> 01:08:04,247
and eh...
1201
01:08:04,248 --> 01:08:06,089
I'm glad I did it
because I enjoyed it
1202
01:08:06,289 --> 01:08:08,551
not for its...
1203
01:08:10,041 --> 01:08:13,888
I suppose slightly charitable
nature of the work, but
1204
01:08:14,088 --> 01:08:17,717
the people I met, work,
it was quite good
1205
01:08:17,917 --> 01:08:23,406
Why are you frightened of
presenting this image of yourself
1206
01:08:26,835 --> 01:08:28,892
It's...
1207
01:08:30,367 --> 01:08:34,228
It's possibly because I
1208
01:08:34,428 --> 01:08:38,662
I don't know, I never
want to feel to proud really
1209
01:08:40,064 --> 01:08:44,379
I mean it's dangerous for
a start and it's so easy
1210
01:08:44,579 --> 01:08:45,579
and
1211
01:08:47,256 --> 01:08:51,114
it doesn't work in a way because I
can try and pretend to be humble
1212
01:08:51,314 --> 01:08:55,959
that's being proud in
just the same sort of way
1213
01:08:56,159 --> 01:08:58,838
I find it a very difficult
thing to avoid, pride
1214
01:08:59,038 --> 01:09:02,660
Tell me, are you interested
in politics at all?
1215
01:09:02,860 --> 01:09:06,185
Not as much as I was
1216
01:09:07,978 --> 01:09:12,707
I am about the only
socialist in my village
1217
01:09:12,907 --> 01:09:16,344
and I go into the pub
1218
01:09:16,932 --> 01:09:21,770
and sort of expect to stand up
and defend all socialist policies
1219
01:09:21,970 --> 01:09:24,208
sort of, this is
the village socialist
1220
01:09:24,408 --> 01:09:27,813
no, village idiot, sorry
1221
01:09:28,013 --> 01:09:30,889
you agree with all this immigration
so I stand up and defend it
1222
01:09:31,089 --> 01:09:36,208
and it's awfully hard work though
I think I'm going to give that up
1223
01:09:36,408 --> 01:09:41,251
So where do you stand
politically now then?
1224
01:09:41,451 --> 01:09:47,212
I'm still socialist but not as
energetically as I was I suppose
1225
01:09:48,336 --> 01:09:52,896
What do you think about the way
England's being run at the moment?
1226
01:09:56,107 --> 01:09:57,803
Well...
1227
01:10:01,664 --> 01:10:04,178
I'm glad the socialist's
are in power because
1228
01:10:04,378 --> 01:10:09,970
This illusive thing called freedom
is sort of rearing its head
1229
01:10:10,170 --> 01:10:12,903
and the conservatives
are pushing it forward
1230
01:10:13,103 --> 01:10:17,765
and I thought this
argument was smashed
1231
01:10:17,965 --> 01:10:20,716
at the early years of this century
but it seems to be coming back
1232
01:10:20,916 --> 01:10:23,280
and it really is exceptionally
dangerous because
1233
01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:26,344
the more you try
and defend freedom
1234
01:10:26,544 --> 01:10:30,587
you allow everybody to do
exactly what they like within limits
1235
01:10:30,787 --> 01:10:33,161
then the less you have
1236
01:10:33,361 --> 01:10:39,575
I mean there's no
freedom in living in a slum
1237
01:10:39,775 --> 01:10:41,569
It's alright you can say the
chap can do whatever he wants
1238
01:10:41,769 --> 01:10:44,381
he can get a better job or anything
but that's just not the case
1239
01:10:44,581 --> 01:10:46,781
the more you defend freedom
the less you have it
1240
01:10:46,981 --> 01:10:51,398
Well my girlfriend is in Africa
1241
01:10:51,598 --> 01:10:55,150
and I don't think I'll have
another chance of seeing her again
1242
01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:56,490
Have you got any girlfriends?
1243
01:10:56,690 --> 01:10:58,917
No, not yet
1244
01:10:59,294 --> 01:11:02,232
I'm sure it will come, but not yet
1245
01:11:02,432 --> 01:11:06,251
What is your attitude to sex?
1246
01:11:06,602 --> 01:11:13,638
Well it's not quite, normal
attitude to anti-sex
1247
01:11:19,685 --> 01:11:24,999
I mean I as it were
burnt my fingers a little
1248
01:11:25,788 --> 01:11:30,913
I don't feel as though I'm
missing anything now
1249
01:11:31,113 --> 01:11:34,846
I don't feel a need for it
1250
01:11:35,046 --> 01:11:40,645
and I'm quite happy at not
feeling a need for it really
1251
01:11:42,158 --> 01:11:47,535
I mean I do think a lot of people
think too much about it
1252
01:11:47,735 --> 01:11:51,234
What happened
when you burnt your fingers?
1253
01:11:55,430 --> 01:11:59,169
I'd rather not talk
about it really
1254
01:11:59,369 --> 01:12:01,154
well no in fact I don't
really mean that
1255
01:12:01,354 --> 01:12:03,894
I don't mean I don't
want to talk about it
1256
01:12:04,094 --> 01:12:07,700
it's just I'd need quite a long
time to think about it really
1257
01:12:07,900 --> 01:12:09,213
Why?
1258
01:12:13,861 --> 01:12:19,020
Well in the end I
decided the eh...
1259
01:12:19,763 --> 01:12:25,800
the effect, the pleasure, or...
1260
01:12:26,158 --> 01:12:28,312
just didn't seem worth it really
1261
01:12:28,512 --> 01:12:30,777
didn't seem worth...
1262
01:12:42,221 --> 01:12:43,719
See I think there's
two different sorts
1263
01:12:43,919 --> 01:12:48,440
there's casual sex then there's
sex in love and marriage
1264
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:50,253
and
1265
01:12:52,639 --> 01:12:54,902
casual seks is not...
1266
01:12:55,102 --> 01:12:57,686
I don't think it's quite as
widespread as people believed
1267
01:12:57,886 --> 01:12:59,732
because
1268
01:13:01,252 --> 01:13:06,431
if both the people treat it as
casual sex then I think it's alright
1269
01:13:06,631 --> 01:13:08,403
but
1270
01:13:10,246 --> 01:13:12,714
if you're sort of looking for
1271
01:13:12,914 --> 01:13:15,337
I don't know this may
seem awfully silly but
1272
01:13:15,537 --> 01:13:19,280
if you're looking for casual sex
but don't want to treat it as such
1273
01:13:19,480 --> 01:13:25,447
then it doesn't seem to be worth
the lies, I don't know the...
1274
01:13:25,647 --> 01:13:27,692
the sort of effort
1275
01:13:28,066 --> 01:13:31,920
- Is this what happened to you?
- I suppose in a way yes
1276
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:33,143
Have you been in love?
1277
01:13:33,343 --> 01:13:34,853
No, no
1278
01:13:36,170 --> 01:13:38,521
and eh...
1279
01:13:39,189 --> 01:13:41,423
I think I'll probably have
to wait for that really
1280
01:13:41,623 --> 01:13:43,599
Play international wrestling
1281
01:13:43,799 --> 01:13:46,019
Yeah that's only at
summertime though
1282
01:13:46,219 --> 01:13:49,811
Yeah summer we can
go on the grass
1283
01:13:55,219 --> 01:13:58,094
Neil went to a comprehensive
school in Liverpool
1284
01:13:58,294 --> 01:14:02,465
got four A-levels then walked out
of Aberdeen university after one term
1285
01:14:02,665 --> 01:14:05,427
and is now doing
casual labour in London
1286
01:14:05,627 --> 01:14:10,044
I came to London I think because
I wanted to start a new life really
1287
01:14:10,244 --> 01:14:13,628
I'd left the university
in Aberdeen
1288
01:14:13,828 --> 01:14:16,155
in the end of nineteen
seventy-five
1289
01:14:16,355 --> 01:14:20,251
and I became conscious of the
fact that I was drifting around
1290
01:14:20,451 --> 01:14:26,493
which I suppose I'm still doing here but at
least I took the decision to move myself
1291
01:14:26,693 --> 01:14:33,082
and I think possibly there's more challenge in
London than there ever could be in Aberdeen
1292
01:14:33,282 --> 01:14:35,474
Peter, Neil's school
friend from Liverpool
1293
01:14:35,674 --> 01:14:39,532
is now in his last year at
London university, reading history
1294
01:14:39,732 --> 01:14:42,991
It was obviously a big step
1295
01:14:43,191 --> 01:14:46,804
it was exciting more than anything,
I mean that sounds corny but it was
1296
01:14:47,004 --> 01:14:48,778
Do you remember the
day you left Liverpool?
1297
01:14:48,978 --> 01:14:50,544
Yeah very well
1298
01:14:50,851 --> 01:14:53,542
It was pouring down with
rain, I remember that
1299
01:14:53,742 --> 01:14:57,946
just had the traditional send of from the
train station, my mum and dad were there
1300
01:14:58,146 --> 01:15:02,383
a couple of mates turned up at the
last minute, from the school to see me
1301
01:15:02,583 --> 01:15:05,417
- Catch a girl and kiss a girl
- Yeah
1302
01:15:05,617 --> 01:15:06,818
and what happens then?
1303
01:15:07,018 --> 01:15:10,477
- Well the girls are all screaming
- Yeah
1304
01:15:10,677 --> 01:15:14,115
and then we catch
them we kiss them
1305
01:15:14,315 --> 01:15:16,861
We're interested in
contrast with you and Neil
1306
01:15:17,061 --> 01:15:22,141
were you aware of differences
in home background at the time?
1307
01:15:22,341 --> 01:15:26,977
Oh sure yeah, I mean both Neil's
parents are teachers as you know
1308
01:15:27,177 --> 01:15:30,000
that's got to be a hell of
a difference for a start
1309
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:33,284
I mean, I'm not knocking them
for a minute, they're very nice people
1310
01:15:33,484 --> 01:15:34,750
but eh...
1311
01:15:34,751 --> 01:15:40,610
there's obviously going to be some sort
of academic type atmosphere in the house
1312
01:15:40,810 --> 01:15:44,966
which I did notice
one or two times
1313
01:15:45,166 --> 01:15:46,671
but I think Neil
1314
01:15:46,968 --> 01:15:51,155
whether by design or just
by the situation he was in
1315
01:15:51,355 --> 01:15:54,234
was obviously going to
be under more pressure
1316
01:15:54,434 --> 01:16:00,116
I came to London and I
contacted an agency for squatters
1317
01:16:00,316 --> 01:16:04,199
and they were able to give
me the address of somebody
1318
01:16:04,399 --> 01:16:09,641
who was able to help people who were looking
for accommodation in the London area
1319
01:16:09,841 --> 01:16:12,512
and by a process of
chasing people around
1320
01:16:12,712 --> 01:16:16,511
I eventually managed to
find this place here
1321
01:16:16,711 --> 01:16:22,371
I wouldn't squat in a place which
I knew to be owned by somebody else
1322
01:16:22,571 --> 01:16:26,383
I wouldn't, certainly because
I knew if I had a place of my own
1323
01:16:26,583 --> 01:16:28,735
and found somebody
squatting in it I'd be disgusted
1324
01:16:28,935 --> 01:16:31,277
But this place was empty
1325
01:16:31,477 --> 01:16:35,317
and I was simply offered a place to
live here and was very grateful for it
1326
01:16:35,517 --> 01:16:38,608
and I think in
questions of squatting
1327
01:16:38,808 --> 01:16:46,294
a bit of humanity is more important that
vain rules about who can live where
1328
01:16:52,747 --> 01:16:55,291
In contrast, Peter lives
in a flat in North London
1329
01:16:55,491 --> 01:16:56,998
sharing with three
other students
1330
01:16:57,198 --> 01:16:59,979
there have been three
guys living here originally
1331
01:17:00,179 --> 01:17:01,828
and one of them left
1332
01:17:02,068 --> 01:17:05,100
to get engaged,
virtually married
1333
01:17:05,300 --> 01:17:09,047
and the flat was meant
for four in the first place
1334
01:17:09,247 --> 01:17:12,050
so Dave and Trev asked Ian
and I if we'd like to move in
1335
01:17:12,250 --> 01:17:15,806
because we did 'cause we'd been
searching for a flat for some months
1336
01:17:16,006 --> 01:17:19,870
so we jumped at the
opportunity really
1337
01:17:20,234 --> 01:17:23,965
I've got my own room, I
can cook whenever I like
1338
01:17:24,165 --> 01:17:26,852
I haven't got a landlady to
tell me what time to come in
1339
01:17:27,052 --> 01:17:30,499
I've got my own front door key
1340
01:17:31,405 --> 01:17:34,347
and to tell the truth it's a lot better
than a lot of the accommodation I've had
1341
01:17:34,547 --> 01:17:37,183
over the last eighteen
months or so
1342
01:17:37,383 --> 01:17:40,190
it could be a bit warmer,
it's a bit chilly
1343
01:17:40,390 --> 01:17:42,021
but eh...
1344
01:17:43,425 --> 01:17:47,908
it's perfectly satisfactory
for the time being
1345
01:18:00,402 --> 01:18:02,380
These are obvious
restrictions, y'know
1346
01:18:02,580 --> 01:18:04,089
not able to cook for yourself
1347
01:18:04,289 --> 01:18:05,905
you've got to think
for yourself a lot more
1348
01:18:06,105 --> 01:18:08,243
but it's eh...
1349
01:18:08,908 --> 01:18:12,149
certainly not as exhausting or
wearing as I thought it would be
1350
01:18:12,349 --> 01:18:13,718
I mean, y'know...
1351
01:18:13,719 --> 01:18:15,933
coming up myself is a
challenge of some sort
1352
01:18:16,133 --> 01:18:18,990
we're going to have to split
two sausages into three now
1353
01:18:19,190 --> 01:18:25,875
Well once Caroline Tetford
said she loved me
1354
01:18:26,705 --> 01:18:30,623
and I'm going to marry
her when I grow up
1355
01:18:30,823 --> 01:18:34,710
I hate her, she's always getting
bad tempered and cross with me
1356
01:18:34,910 --> 01:18:35,815
- Does she?
- Yeah
1357
01:18:35,816 --> 01:18:38,673
She says "Neil Hughes, move
your desk forward"
1358
01:18:38,873 --> 01:18:42,373
and when I put it back she says
"Neil Hughes put your chair forward"
1359
01:18:42,573 --> 01:18:45,980
and she just gets into a
girly mood with me like that
1360
01:18:46,180 --> 01:18:50,577
Tell me about the period in your life when
you went to university and what happened
1361
01:18:50,777 --> 01:18:51,846
It was a very short period
1362
01:18:52,046 --> 01:18:52,787
I was only at university...
1363
01:18:52,987 --> 01:18:58,976
well I was only taking university seriously
for a matter of two or three months
1364
01:18:59,234 --> 01:19:03,531
maybe I went to the wrong university
or maybe university life didn't suit me
1365
01:19:03,731 --> 01:19:04,771
either way
1366
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:09,867
I felt a very great need
to get out of the system
1367
01:19:10,067 --> 01:19:13,594
Well this is my final year so
I'm not in college that much
1368
01:19:13,794 --> 01:19:15,165
I don't have to be
1369
01:19:15,361 --> 01:19:18,343
so what I'm expected
to do is to be...
1370
01:19:18,543 --> 01:19:21,472
laying out revision
timetables at home and..
1371
01:19:21,672 --> 01:19:23,102
Working like a slave
1372
01:19:23,353 --> 01:19:25,849
which I'm not at the
moment, but I will be soon
1373
01:19:26,049 --> 01:19:28,341
I did make an
application to Oxford
1374
01:19:28,541 --> 01:19:29,859
but I didn't get in
1375
01:19:29,860 --> 01:19:30,844
and eh
1376
01:19:30,845 --> 01:19:33,316
well I think that's in the
past now and that's...
1377
01:19:33,516 --> 01:19:38,158
I don't know whether I would've
been any happier at Oxford
1378
01:19:38,392 --> 01:19:40,408
it always had been a
dream to get into Oxford
1379
01:19:40,608 --> 01:19:42,535
I think being as people
had encouraged me
1380
01:19:42,735 --> 01:19:46,901
because I knew famous
people having been to Oxford
1381
01:19:47,101 --> 01:19:49,564
I'd read memoirs written
by famous people
1382
01:19:49,764 --> 01:19:55,812
things such as Brideshead's Revisited
which was a great favourite
1383
01:19:56,012 --> 01:19:58,410
but these I suppose are
1384
01:19:58,610 --> 01:20:03,458
well they were dreams which
I had while I was at school and
1385
01:20:03,658 --> 01:20:06,794
I have to just get over the
fact that I didn't get into Oxford
1386
01:20:06,994 --> 01:20:10,755
probably because I didn't
approach the thing in the right way
1387
01:20:10,955 --> 01:20:12,166
Are you bitter about it?
1388
01:20:12,366 --> 01:20:14,608
I was very bitter at the time
1389
01:20:14,808 --> 01:20:18,311
maybe I still am but
I try to get over it
1390
01:20:18,511 --> 01:20:23,683
I think once I can get myself
going I can work solid, yeah
1391
01:20:23,883 --> 01:20:25,398
but it's the motive
1392
01:20:25,399 --> 01:20:30,293
which is very hard to acquire when
you're in the flat most of the time
1393
01:20:30,518 --> 01:20:34,638
it's hard to sort of look ahead to
next June and think of those exams
1394
01:20:34,838 --> 01:20:37,942
but I dare say I'll do it, get the
average type degree and...
1395
01:20:38,142 --> 01:20:39,815
I'm not worried
1396
01:20:40,505 --> 01:20:44,712
Is it a problem to you
motivating yourself generally?
1397
01:20:44,912 --> 01:20:46,586
Yeah it can be
1398
01:20:46,587 --> 01:20:50,130
I can look back on the day
and think "how I wasted that"
1399
01:20:50,330 --> 01:20:52,435
although I must've
enjoyed it at the time
1400
01:20:52,635 --> 01:20:56,342
What sort of influence did
your parents have on you?
1401
01:20:56,542 --> 01:20:59,386
Well they made me believe
in god from the start
1402
01:20:59,586 --> 01:21:01,977
which I certainly wouldn't
1403
01:21:02,177 --> 01:21:05,005
or I don't know even now
whether I believe in god or not
1404
01:21:05,205 --> 01:21:07,578
I've thought an awful
lot about it actually and
1405
01:21:07,778 --> 01:21:09,336
I still don't know
1406
01:21:09,625 --> 01:21:11,199
but still this was the
absolutely certain one
1407
01:21:11,399 --> 01:21:14,214
if one was to survive in the
world one had to believe in god
1408
01:21:14,414 --> 01:21:17,823
this was something
which was taught to me
1409
01:21:18,023 --> 01:21:20,860
always think of other
people first before yourself
1410
01:21:21,060 --> 01:21:24,021
to a ridiculous neurotic degree
1411
01:21:24,221 --> 01:21:27,805
which I think affected me
1412
01:21:28,466 --> 01:21:30,009
What do you mean by that?
1413
01:21:30,209 --> 01:21:34,097
Well this I suppose
is basic christianity
1414
01:21:34,297 --> 01:21:35,481
it's sort of...
1415
01:21:36,772 --> 01:21:39,841
if somebody slaps you on one cheek
let them do it on the other
1416
01:21:40,041 --> 01:21:43,502
almost literally taken
1417
01:21:43,702 --> 01:21:48,134
which gave me a few shocks
when I tried to put it into practise
1418
01:21:48,334 --> 01:21:50,002
- In what way?
- I don't think to be honest
1419
01:21:50,202 --> 01:21:52,087
to go back to that
question I don't think
1420
01:21:52,287 --> 01:21:56,028
I was really taught any sort of
policy of living at all by my parents
1421
01:21:56,228 --> 01:21:57,933
this was probably
their biggest mistake
1422
01:21:58,133 --> 01:22:00,022
that I was just left
to fend for myself
1423
01:22:00,222 --> 01:22:03,256
in a world which they seemed
completely oblivious of
1424
01:22:03,456 --> 01:22:08,390
and I found even when I tried to discuss
problems which were facing me in school
1425
01:22:08,590 --> 01:22:11,688
my parents didn't seem to be
aware of the nature of the problem
1426
01:22:11,888 --> 01:22:15,139
Were they ambitious for you?
1427
01:22:15,725 --> 01:22:18,448
Yeah but along set lines
which they had planned
1428
01:22:18,648 --> 01:22:20,943
I think they have often
said to me that they
1429
01:22:21,143 --> 01:22:24,663
they had seen me even from when I was
very young in a certain type of career
1430
01:22:24,863 --> 01:22:31,016
and possibly they'd never even thought
that anything else was vaguely possible
1431
01:22:31,216 --> 01:22:33,689
they probably imagined I would be
1432
01:22:33,889 --> 01:22:37,738
maybe a university lecturer or
1433
01:22:37,938 --> 01:22:41,356
a bank manager or
something like this
1434
01:22:41,556 --> 01:22:43,713
some kind of indoor work
1435
01:22:43,913 --> 01:22:48,161
which involved writing and
reading and this sort of thing
1436
01:22:48,361 --> 01:22:52,447
because they didn't take account
of the other side of my personality
1437
01:22:52,647 --> 01:22:54,007
but
1438
01:22:58,906 --> 01:23:05,095
I wonder how many parents really think of
their children as individual human beings
1439
01:23:05,295 --> 01:23:09,785
What are your feelings about
them now? Your parents
1440
01:23:09,985 --> 01:23:12,264
I'm glad they're there because
if I ever become homeless again
1441
01:23:12,464 --> 01:23:13,934
I will be able to go
back and live with them
1442
01:23:14,134 --> 01:23:17,422
they wouldn't object to this
1443
01:23:18,519 --> 01:23:21,858
I'm capable of getting on with
my parents perfectly well
1444
01:23:22,058 --> 01:23:30,214
If they are willing to let me live
as another adult in their house
1445
01:23:30,414 --> 01:23:33,261
and appreciate that I'm
living my own way of life
1446
01:23:33,461 --> 01:23:38,540
and that I am living there because I can't
think of anything else to do with myself
1447
01:23:40,162 --> 01:23:44,235
What do they think of
what you're doing now?
1448
01:23:44,435 --> 01:23:49,275
They accept it, I think now they
do accept that I'm the person I am
1449
01:23:49,507 --> 01:23:57,177
they see this as simply my attempting
to add more experience to my life
1450
01:23:57,377 --> 01:24:00,189
which satisfies me
1451
01:24:00,190 --> 01:24:02,996
Are they worried about you?
1452
01:24:03,196 --> 01:24:04,920
Probably yes
1453
01:24:08,755 --> 01:24:13,393
but no more worried now than they
were when I first left for university
1454
01:24:13,593 --> 01:24:17,520
that was probably the time at
which they were most worried
1455
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:23,092
and we have in fact managed to
discuss a lot of personal things
1456
01:24:23,292 --> 01:24:26,826
which I felt at one time I'd
never be able to discuss
1457
01:24:27,026 --> 01:24:28,665
and therefore, as I say
1458
01:24:28,865 --> 01:24:32,489
it is possible for me to live for a
few weeks even a month or so at home
1459
01:24:32,689 --> 01:24:37,637
without there being
to much friction
1460
01:24:37,837 --> 01:24:41,229
So are you under
pressure to get a job
1461
01:24:41,429 --> 01:24:44,568
to think of what you're going
to do when you leave in June
1462
01:24:44,768 --> 01:24:48,173
Yeah I suspect I am from my
parents, they keep dropping hints
1463
01:24:48,373 --> 01:24:50,846
which is only fair I can
understand their feelings
1464
01:24:51,046 --> 01:24:52,322
obviously I've got to get a job
1465
01:24:52,522 --> 01:24:54,892
I don't want to laze around on
the dole for months and months
1466
01:24:55,092 --> 01:24:56,690
you'd go mad
1467
01:24:57,815 --> 01:25:02,451
I just can't see what I'll be
doing in nine, ten months time though
1468
01:25:02,651 --> 01:25:05,227
Does that depress you
or does that excite you?
1469
01:25:05,427 --> 01:25:08,481
No it certainly
doesn't depress me
1470
01:25:08,681 --> 01:25:11,788
perhaps it does excite
me in a way yes
1471
01:25:11,988 --> 01:25:15,564
something will turn up, something
of that nature y'know
1472
01:25:15,764 --> 01:25:21,398
but obviously you've got to think
realistically about doing something
1473
01:25:21,598 --> 01:25:26,119
I mean I might be living in
cloud cuckoo land y'know
1474
01:25:26,319 --> 01:25:29,448
my mum and dad
might say "no son"
1475
01:25:29,648 --> 01:25:32,245
"you don't get a job you like"
1476
01:25:32,445 --> 01:25:33,606
I'd like to think I could
1477
01:25:33,806 --> 01:25:36,979
Well, we pretend we've got swords
1478
01:25:37,179 --> 01:25:39,701
we make the noises of
the swords fighting
1479
01:25:39,901 --> 01:25:42,695
and when somebody stabs
us we go "Arrrrrgghhh!"
1480
01:25:42,895 --> 01:25:46,679
What goes through your mind
when you saw those two films
1481
01:25:46,879 --> 01:25:50,709
when you were at
seven, bright and perky?
1482
01:25:50,909 --> 01:25:55,001
I find it hard to believe that I was ever
like that but there's the evidence
1483
01:25:55,201 --> 01:25:56,650
I wonder why I was like that
1484
01:25:56,850 --> 01:26:01,868
I wonder what it was inside
me that made me like that
1485
01:26:02,295 --> 01:26:05,601
and I can see even at fourteen and
I was beginning to get more subdued
1486
01:26:05,801 --> 01:26:08,037
and I was putting a lot more
thought into what I was saying
1487
01:26:08,237 --> 01:26:12,016
too a ridiculous degree
1488
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:16,430
and probably when I was
seven I just... I don't know
1489
01:26:16,630 --> 01:26:20,249
I lived in a wonderful world where
everything was sensation dumb
1490
01:26:20,449 --> 01:26:22,622
I could be happy like this I could
be miserable the next minute
1491
01:26:22,822 --> 01:26:24,469
and I didn't have
to plan for the future
1492
01:26:24,669 --> 01:26:27,642
I didn't have to worry about
having friends and all this money
1493
01:26:27,842 --> 01:26:31,717
because everything was
so mapped out for me
1494
01:26:31,917 --> 01:26:36,396
I don't know what sort of stumbling
blocks should be put in a child's way
1495
01:26:36,596 --> 01:26:40,903
to get him used to living
in the outside world
1496
01:26:41,103 --> 01:26:44,598
because I think maybe this is something
that was wrong in my upbringing
1497
01:26:44,798 --> 01:26:50,049
I didn't have enough obstacles to
get over, to toughen myself up against
1498
01:26:50,249 --> 01:26:52,496
I was unprepared for
things as they were
1499
01:26:52,696 --> 01:26:56,840
but looking back now I couldn't
think of what might have been done
1500
01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:00,900
and I certainly wouldn't start
writing educational theory about this
1501
01:27:01,100 --> 01:27:02,719
because I know how
personal a thing it is
1502
01:27:02,919 --> 01:27:06,582
and it probably wouldn't
work in anybody else's case
1503
01:27:06,782 --> 01:27:09,535
Would you like to
be seven again?
1504
01:27:09,735 --> 01:27:12,448
No because I'd know that I
had to be twenty-one again
1505
01:27:12,648 --> 01:27:15,155
I moved up to a
comprehensive school
1506
01:27:15,355 --> 01:27:17,139
I found it much bigger of course
1507
01:27:17,339 --> 01:27:19,544
I found it hard to
settle into at first
1508
01:27:19,744 --> 01:27:23,226
but now I've been here a few
years I know my way around
1509
01:27:23,426 --> 01:27:25,882
I think it's a very good
idea to have competition
1510
01:27:26,082 --> 01:27:30,191
otherwise you might start
to relax and not try hard enough
1511
01:27:30,391 --> 01:27:35,522
Yes at that age I was very
conscious of having to struggle
1512
01:27:35,722 --> 01:27:37,941
because I suppose of what
parents and teachers were saying
1513
01:27:38,141 --> 01:27:39,069
they were saying
1514
01:27:39,070 --> 01:27:44,833
they said "you've got a brain you
must put all your effort into school work"
1515
01:27:46,177 --> 01:27:47,714
well what else could
they have said?
1516
01:27:47,914 --> 01:27:50,357
I would've probably been
just as angry, looking back
1517
01:27:50,557 --> 01:27:54,086
if they'd never encouraged
my intellectual efforts at all
1518
01:27:54,286 --> 01:27:58,218
When I get married I don't
want to have any children
1519
01:27:58,418 --> 01:27:59,491
because
1520
01:27:59,492 --> 01:28:02,071
they are always
doing naughty things
1521
01:28:02,271 --> 01:28:04,973
and making the
whole house untidy
1522
01:28:05,173 --> 01:28:09,534
Do you have any
great ambition, any dream?
1523
01:28:11,685 --> 01:28:13,111
I suppose I...
1524
01:28:13,405 --> 01:28:14,714
yes well...
1525
01:28:14,715 --> 01:28:19,726
I would like to be someone in a position
of importance and I've always thought this
1526
01:28:19,926 --> 01:28:23,549
but I don't think I'm the right sort of person
to carry the responsibility for whatever it is
1527
01:28:23,749 --> 01:28:27,094
I've always thought
well I'd love to be
1528
01:28:27,294 --> 01:28:30,405
possibly even love
to be in politics
1529
01:28:30,605 --> 01:28:31,874
Something like this
1530
01:28:31,875 --> 01:28:32,976
but eh...
1531
01:28:33,572 --> 01:28:39,717
I suppose that I'd probably find just as
tedious as all the other jobs I've done so...
1532
01:28:39,917 --> 01:28:43,963
What do you want out of life?
1533
01:28:47,344 --> 01:28:50,696
The satisfaction of knowing
1534
01:28:50,896 --> 01:28:54,729
that I've left some sort of imprint
1535
01:28:54,929 --> 01:28:58,886
rather than just
lived out my life
1536
01:28:59,086 --> 01:29:00,879
I don't know...
1537
01:29:01,511 --> 01:29:06,578
it's going to sound like an epitaph
I've left in memory of some people y'know
1538
01:29:06,778 --> 01:29:12,889
not that this guy worked, made a fair
bit of money, good house, died
1539
01:29:13,089 --> 01:29:15,387
I'd like to have done
something but...
1540
01:29:15,587 --> 01:29:18,290
then again it must be a
drop in the ocean I suppose
1541
01:29:18,490 --> 01:29:20,963
I mean who is going to remember
me in a hundred years time?
1542
01:29:21,163 --> 01:29:24,744
So is it that important,
how you live out your life?
1543
01:29:24,944 --> 01:29:27,883
But I would like to think
I'm going to do something with it
1544
01:29:28,083 --> 01:29:30,124
something positive
1545
01:29:30,125 --> 01:29:32,231
Do you and Peter have
the same values?
1546
01:29:32,431 --> 01:29:35,624
I think we both value
happiness and stability
1547
01:29:35,824 --> 01:29:39,124
I think most people do
1548
01:29:40,571 --> 01:29:43,782
But you've kicked against
the stability that's..
1549
01:29:43,982 --> 01:29:48,783
I don't think I ever had any
stability, to be quite honest
1550
01:29:48,983 --> 01:29:51,576
I can't think of any time
in my life when I ever did
1551
01:29:51,776 --> 01:29:53,763
I don't think I've been
kicking against anything
1552
01:29:53,963 --> 01:29:58,582
I think I've been kicking in
mid-air the whole of my life
1553
01:30:11,673 --> 01:30:13,249
It's only one more
1554
01:30:22,642 --> 01:30:24,947
What do they think
about each other?
1555
01:30:25,147 --> 01:30:27,292
And how would they act together?
1556
01:30:27,492 --> 01:30:31,930
To find out we invited them
all to one big party and joined in
1557
01:30:32,130 --> 01:30:34,462
♪If I say that I love you♪
1558
01:30:34,662 --> 01:30:36,909
♪And you know it's true♪
1559
01:30:37,109 --> 01:30:39,516
♪If you said that you'd leave me♪
1560
01:30:39,716 --> 01:30:43,297
♪What would I do?♪
1561
01:30:43,497 --> 01:30:47,844
♪I'll let you back if you let me♪
1562
01:30:48,044 --> 01:30:54,702
♪I'll change your mind...♪
1563
01:30:55,413 --> 01:30:58,736
Yes but they were a bit
too tough for my liking
1564
01:30:58,936 --> 01:31:02,948
so they hit me right in the back
and I've still got a pain there
1565
01:31:03,148 --> 01:31:07,577
The posh ones,
"Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes!"
1566
01:31:07,777 --> 01:31:09,922
they're nuts
1567
01:31:09,923 --> 01:31:12,558
you just have to touch them
1568
01:31:12,758 --> 01:31:17,428
Well some of them
were rather dirty
1569
01:31:17,628 --> 01:31:21,286
- What do you think about them?
- I played with them quite naturally
1570
01:31:21,486 --> 01:31:23,738
I think they were
rather nice really
1571
01:31:23,938 --> 01:31:26,143
What do you think
about rich people?
1572
01:31:26,343 --> 01:31:30,157
Well... not much
1573
01:31:30,962 --> 01:31:31,925
Tell me about them
1574
01:31:31,926 --> 01:31:35,901
Well they think they can do
everything without you doing it as well
1575
01:31:36,101 --> 01:31:43,935
and they think just because they're rich they
have to have people to do all their work
1576
01:31:44,135 --> 01:31:48,635
What would you do if you had
lots of money, about two pounds?
1577
01:31:48,835 --> 01:31:51,674
Me? I would help the poor
1578
01:31:51,874 --> 01:31:53,069
What for?
1579
01:31:53,070 --> 01:31:57,498
The poor, if you don't help
them they die soon wouldn't they
1580
01:31:57,698 --> 01:32:03,375
and every time we have a harvest
festival we send food to them
1581
01:32:03,575 --> 01:32:06,115
and once these two...no
1582
01:32:06,315 --> 01:32:10,539
Susan and Janet Simpson went
round giving it out with Mr Floyd
1583
01:32:10,739 --> 01:32:13,038
- I don't think much of the accents
- Neither do I
1584
01:32:13,238 --> 01:32:14,915
Neither do I
1585
01:32:15,086 --> 01:32:17,440
it won't prevent me liking them
1586
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:18,615
Don't you ever
think to yourself -
1587
01:32:18,815 --> 01:32:20,722
Jump out of that suit,
come to the Eastend
1588
01:32:20,922 --> 01:32:23,484
throw the books in the corner
and do what you have to do
1589
01:32:23,684 --> 01:32:26,023
- I'd certainly throw the books in the corner
- Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
1590
01:32:26,223 --> 01:32:26,872
Yeah
1591
01:32:26,873 --> 01:32:30,086
- What are you going to do in life?
- I've really no idea
1592
01:32:30,286 --> 01:32:35,258
The idea of just living somewhere and working
for a living is just horrifying really
1593
01:32:35,458 --> 01:32:37,834
I mean, being a
student is very easy
1594
01:32:38,034 --> 01:32:40,722
I just postponed the decision
by going to university
1595
01:32:40,922 --> 01:32:44,025
I wouldn't say being a student's
easy, that's why I left school
1596
01:32:44,225 --> 01:32:46,327
- It was too hard
- Really
1597
01:32:46,527 --> 01:32:50,004
Who is to say what a
seven year old child is?
1598
01:32:50,204 --> 01:32:54,061
I don't think there's anyway you can do it so a
seven year old child could seem to be one thing
1599
01:32:54,261 --> 01:32:59,485
and you could always argue that the end
product was produced by what he actually was
1600
01:32:59,685 --> 01:33:01,562
rather than what he seemed to be
1601
01:33:01,762 --> 01:33:04,820
- you'd normally use the total...
- Not a bookmaker but a...
1602
01:33:05,020 --> 01:33:07,373
- I'm always frightened they'd clear off
- What?
1603
01:33:07,573 --> 01:33:10,028
I'm always frightened they'd clear
off if they had a bad afternoon
1604
01:33:10,228 --> 01:33:12,157
No they're not like that,
they can always get hold of money
1605
01:33:12,357 --> 01:33:14,994
What fears do you
have for the future?
1606
01:33:15,194 --> 01:33:17,564
Well certainly the idea of,
as I was saying before
1607
01:33:17,764 --> 01:33:21,489
getting into a job and simply
getting stuck in it and that's it
1608
01:33:21,689 --> 01:33:24,500
without knowing
why you're doing it
1609
01:33:24,700 --> 01:33:29,569
but I would think now that this is the time
where I would think about something like that
1610
01:33:29,769 --> 01:33:31,130
and make sure it doesn't happen
1611
01:33:31,330 --> 01:33:34,181
I really don't see how
one's life can be a failure
1612
01:33:34,381 --> 01:33:35,481
in that...
1613
01:33:35,482 --> 01:33:39,017
if I became a journalist
and got sacked at thirty
1614
01:33:39,217 --> 01:33:42,347
probably because I had grown out of it or I
had changed so I was no longer suitable
1615
01:33:42,547 --> 01:33:48,141
therefore I'd find something
else which I enjoyed
1616
01:33:48,341 --> 01:33:49,825
and which my talents
were suited to
1617
01:33:50,025 --> 01:33:54,360
No I have never suffered at all
1618
01:33:54,560 --> 01:34:02,205
never been driven to
despair or tears or...
1619
01:34:03,380 --> 01:34:05,122
I don't know, have
any of the others?
1620
01:34:05,322 --> 01:34:08,325
My strength is being
able to keep going really
1621
01:34:08,525 --> 01:34:12,980
and my weakness is not being able
to take any positive course of action
1622
01:34:13,180 --> 01:34:18,327
I suppose I tend to behave in the
fashion of the people that I'm with
1623
01:34:18,527 --> 01:34:21,744
in some circumstances I think that
can be quite a weakness sometimes
1624
01:34:21,944 --> 01:34:24,500
sometimes wish I didn't
1625
01:34:24,700 --> 01:34:31,358
occasionally look at myself and think "christ
you're a bloody fool, what are you doing now?"
1626
01:34:31,558 --> 01:34:33,381
and that sometimes disturbs me
1627
01:34:33,581 --> 01:34:35,662
We had a teacher at school
1628
01:34:35,862 --> 01:34:39,144
that his favourite ploy was...
1629
01:34:39,344 --> 01:34:43,193
"All you girls want to do is walk
out, get married, have babies
1630
01:34:43,393 --> 01:34:48,309
and push a pram down the road with a cigarette
hanging out the side of your mouth"
1631
01:34:48,509 --> 01:34:52,097
god if there was ever a sentence
I'd resent it would be that one - yeah
1632
01:34:52,297 --> 01:34:55,183
There's only one ambition
really I want a baby son
1633
01:34:55,383 --> 01:34:58,065
if I see my baby son that'll
be my ambition fulfilled
1634
01:34:58,265 --> 01:35:00,597
no one knows that, only you now!
1635
01:35:00,797 --> 01:35:04,687
Well to me it is a dream
to be totally happy
1636
01:35:04,887 --> 01:35:09,325
I mean, I don't think
you can expect that but...
1637
01:35:10,294 --> 01:35:15,306
What happens if you don't make that? If you
don't ever find it? How will you cope?
1638
01:35:15,506 --> 01:35:19,258
I don't know, it
would be hard to say
1639
01:35:19,458 --> 01:35:23,850
the human minds very strong
and it can be very weak
1640
01:35:24,050 --> 01:35:27,812
and so you could crack up
from it and you could just
1641
01:35:28,012 --> 01:35:33,048
live your life out from day to day
and you could get over it I think
1642
01:35:33,248 --> 01:35:37,450
well not get over it but you'd
sort of cope with it I think
1643
01:35:37,650 --> 01:35:41,774
but what I'd do
I just don't know
1644
01:35:43,045 --> 01:35:47,783
I mean I want to be happy and
my dreams are all for happiness
1645
01:35:47,983 --> 01:35:49,974
but basically that's what
I want out of life
1646
01:35:50,174 --> 01:35:54,886
I always leave something inside
me, I always leave a bit behind
1647
01:35:55,086 --> 01:35:59,985
I always hold back a
bit with everything I do
1648
01:36:01,873 --> 01:36:05,223
just to sort of...something
to fall back on
1649
01:36:05,423 --> 01:36:10,663
I've always got something else to look
on if anything goes wrong anywhere
1650
01:36:10,863 --> 01:36:14,050
What is that something
you hold back?
1651
01:36:14,250 --> 01:36:16,450
I think it's a part of my heart
1652
01:36:16,650 --> 01:36:20,147
What do you want
most out of life?
1653
01:36:20,347 --> 01:36:23,782
To be happy and get on with life
1654
01:36:23,982 --> 01:36:29,866
you don't want to just sit
back and let it always pass
1655
01:36:30,066 --> 01:36:31,829
you could be run over
by a bus tomorrow
1656
01:36:32,029 --> 01:36:33,849
so you've got to make the
most of it while you've got it
1657
01:36:34,049 --> 01:36:37,821
Simply to be able to wake
up in the morning and feel that
1658
01:36:38,021 --> 01:36:41,950
this day was going
to be worthwhile
1659
01:36:42,812 --> 01:36:47,311
which is what I don't
feel at the moment
1660
01:36:58,596 --> 01:37:01,490
At the end of their very
special day in London
1661
01:37:01,690 --> 01:37:04,751
after their trip to
the zoo and the party
1662
01:37:04,951 --> 01:37:07,801
we took our children to
an adventure playground
1663
01:37:08,001 --> 01:37:11,770
where they could do
just what they liked
1664
01:37:12,607 --> 01:37:16,475
those from a children's home
set about building a house
1665
01:37:16,675 --> 01:37:20,821
The houses in Australia, the average
sort of living there will do me fine
1666
01:37:21,021 --> 01:37:22,318
I mean it's terrific
1667
01:37:22,319 --> 01:37:26,190
I often say I'm saving to
settle down with Yvonne
1668
01:37:26,390 --> 01:37:31,530
and then I think to myself "nah
I might buy a car instead"
1669
01:37:37,011 --> 01:37:38,636
There's Nicholas
1670
01:37:38,637 --> 01:37:41,538
You have to run fast
to stay where you are
1671
01:37:41,738 --> 01:37:46,393
to go forward you have to run very
fast indeed, or whatever the quote is
1672
01:37:46,593 --> 01:37:51,695
so I'll probably feel I'm
actually achieving nothing
1673
01:37:51,895 --> 01:37:53,474
and Tony
1674
01:37:56,393 --> 01:37:59,598
I don't want to change
because if I change
1675
01:37:59,798 --> 01:38:04,579
it proves the other Tony
Walker was all fake
1676
01:38:04,931 --> 01:38:05,993
Andrew
1677
01:38:06,552 --> 01:38:12,096
After I've qualified as a
Solicitor I'll have to rethink
1678
01:38:12,296 --> 01:38:14,531
I don't know at all what
will happen after that
1679
01:38:14,731 --> 01:38:16,120
and Bruce
1680
01:38:19,268 --> 01:38:23,398
It all springs from...
1681
01:38:23,598 --> 01:38:27,145
loving god and christ I suppose
1682
01:38:27,345 --> 01:38:33,199
you try and do that as best as possible
and that leads your actions in life
1683
01:38:33,792 --> 01:38:35,158
John
1684
01:38:35,181 --> 01:38:41,124
I'd quite like to go into politics but
that's easier said than done
1685
01:38:42,266 --> 01:38:43,433
Susie
1686
01:38:44,420 --> 01:38:47,112
When you're a child you always think
how nice it would be to be grown up
1687
01:38:47,312 --> 01:38:49,239
and independent and things
1688
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:52,742
but there are times when
I wish I was three again
1689
01:38:52,942 --> 01:38:57,045
Jackie and her friends
1690
01:39:01,130 --> 01:39:03,648
give me a child
until he is seven
1691
01:39:03,848 --> 01:39:08,042
and I will give you the man
1692
01:39:14,911 --> 01:39:20,095
this has been a glimpse
of Britain's future
143980
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