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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:02:28,742 --> 00:02:30,326 This is an illegal gathering. 2 00:02:31,159 --> 00:02:33,661 You must disperse immediately. 3 00:03:23,927 --> 00:03:24,969 Stay down. 4 00:03:34,472 --> 00:03:35,222 Pass. 5 00:03:40,683 --> 00:03:41,896 You're in Soweto. 6 00:03:43,197 --> 00:03:44,108 Why? 7 00:03:44,392 --> 00:03:46,309 My sister lives in District Three. 8 00:03:49,644 --> 00:03:50,769 What's in the back? 9 00:03:51,936 --> 00:03:52,894 Furniture. 10 00:04:29,032 --> 00:04:29,949 Wait. 11 00:04:36,701 --> 00:04:37,867 Okay, it's fine. 12 00:05:21,133 --> 00:05:24,301 He was out collecting wood with his father and his sister. 13 00:05:31,969 --> 00:05:35,846 The Police came out of nowhere and grabbed us and took us to the bridge. 14 00:05:41,139 --> 00:05:43,972 They took my dad and tied him in a canvas bag... 15 00:05:43,973 --> 00:05:45,265 and dropped him into the river. 16 00:05:49,017 --> 00:05:51,517 They made us watch him drown. 17 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,480 They told us to go home and tell the others the price for being ANC. 18 00:06:04,272 --> 00:06:05,606 We have a word... 19 00:06:06,648 --> 00:06:07,773 'Ubuntu'. 20 00:06:09,149 --> 00:06:10,774 It means a person's humanity... 21 00:06:10,816 --> 00:06:13,650 is measured according to their relationship with others. 22 00:06:14,775 --> 00:06:19,235 We tell the children that these people, who commit these crimes... 23 00:06:21,069 --> 00:06:22,695 have lost their humanity... 24 00:06:23,695 --> 00:06:26,821 and are as much victims of Apartheid as we are. 25 00:06:45,740 --> 00:06:46,643 Michael Young. 26 00:06:57,998 --> 00:06:58,707 Sir? 27 00:07:00,749 --> 00:07:02,333 Go, go, go! 28 00:07:08,794 --> 00:07:11,544 - It's Michael Young. - What progress? 29 00:07:15,420 --> 00:07:19,631 This isn't going to work for us. We need to aim higher. 30 00:07:20,088 --> 00:07:22,839 Safer to stay in the foothills. 31 00:07:23,089 --> 00:07:26,216 The more visible, the more vulnerable we are. 32 00:07:34,676 --> 00:07:36,803 Yes, it's much safer. Yes. 33 00:08:06,313 --> 00:08:07,896 A bit of hush. 34 00:08:09,189 --> 00:08:12,856 It is my pleasure to present Thabo Mbeki. 35 00:08:12,898 --> 00:08:16,066 The African National Congress' Head of Information... 36 00:08:16,108 --> 00:08:19,982 who is here representing the ANC president, Oliver Tambo. 37 00:08:19,983 --> 00:08:23,026 I know that you'll make Mr Mbeki feel most welcome. 38 00:08:34,905 --> 00:08:36,864 My name is Thabo Mbeki... 39 00:08:38,156 --> 00:08:39,989 and I am a terrorist. 40 00:08:42,659 --> 00:08:45,535 No doubt, that is what you have been told. 41 00:08:47,660 --> 00:08:50,411 No incendiary devices. 42 00:08:50,828 --> 00:08:53,954 No concealed weapons. 43 00:08:55,079 --> 00:08:58,455 I am just a man, as you are. 44 00:09:00,123 --> 00:09:04,165 Every day the President of South Africa... 45 00:09:04,957 --> 00:09:07,333 under the mantle of his State of Emergency... 46 00:09:07,375 --> 00:09:10,333 deploys thousands more of his troops in the townships... 47 00:09:10,334 --> 00:09:15,460 brutally crushing the rising resistance to his oppressive regime. 48 00:09:15,502 --> 00:09:20,587 Yet, the UK, is still one of South Africa's leading trading partners. 49 00:09:20,629 --> 00:09:22,087 Every company... 50 00:09:22,088 --> 00:09:26,214 every financial institution which continues to invest there... 51 00:09:26,256 --> 00:09:30,340 is a source of political and economic strength to P.W. Botha. 52 00:09:32,465 --> 00:09:37,092 If it is true that money talks, then let it speak, clearly. 53 00:09:37,927 --> 00:09:43,554 Let your voice join ours when we say the bloodshed of our people must end. 54 00:09:44,804 --> 00:09:47,680 The time to shout 'enough' has come. 55 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:52,390 The time for you to act is here. 56 00:10:14,647 --> 00:10:16,605 Mr Mbeki? 57 00:10:17,356 --> 00:10:18,231 Michael Young. 58 00:10:18,273 --> 00:10:21,733 Public Affairs Director, Consolidated Goldfields. 59 00:10:22,816 --> 00:10:24,817 Tell me how we can help. 60 00:10:27,693 --> 00:10:31,986 It's not an offer to make lightly, Mr Young. We might take you up on it. 61 00:10:32,028 --> 00:10:33,695 It wasn't made lightly. 62 00:10:34,696 --> 00:10:39,031 As you say, we too have an incentive to ensure your country's survival. 63 00:10:44,490 --> 00:10:47,074 We have this recurring nightmare, Mr Young... 64 00:10:47,908 --> 00:10:50,867 that one day the South African Government will send us a message... 65 00:10:50,868 --> 00:10:54,077 indicating that it is ready to talk to us about ending apartheid. 66 00:10:54,744 --> 00:10:58,911 Because of our antagonism and mistrust, we fail to hear the message. We... 67 00:10:59,370 --> 00:11:00,404 fail to respond. 68 00:11:02,413 --> 00:11:03,788 We miss the moment. 69 00:11:08,248 --> 00:11:09,540 Thank you. 70 00:11:17,335 --> 00:11:20,584 An apparatchik working for a reactionary outfit like Goldfields? 71 00:11:20,585 --> 00:11:21,877 Is that what it's come to? 72 00:11:21,878 --> 00:11:25,170 The fact that he works for Goldfields means he'll be listened to. 73 00:11:26,462 --> 00:11:28,297 You know a better entry card? 74 00:11:28,339 --> 00:11:30,589 And if the Public Affairs thing is just a front? 75 00:11:30,631 --> 00:11:32,214 I doubt he's Ml6. 76 00:11:38,383 --> 00:11:39,550 I need a word. 77 00:11:46,886 --> 00:11:47,887 He's expecting you. 78 00:11:51,095 --> 00:11:51,888 Come in. 79 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,474 I think I have a way forward on our problem. 80 00:11:59,973 --> 00:12:01,058 I'm listening. 81 00:12:26,483 --> 00:12:27,524 Mr Vijoan? 82 00:12:28,192 --> 00:12:31,275 It's Michael Young. I called last week about the meetings... 83 00:12:31,276 --> 00:12:35,277 I'm trying to set up between the ANC and leading Afrikaners. 84 00:12:35,319 --> 00:12:37,319 The risk is too great. 85 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,820 I have a young family to think of. 86 00:12:39,862 --> 00:12:41,696 Please don't call me again. 87 00:12:48,907 --> 00:12:51,115 They're just exploratory meetings... 88 00:12:51,199 --> 00:12:54,533 and someone representing the Dutch Reform Church... 89 00:12:54,575 --> 00:12:57,826 who better to act as a mediator between the two sides? 90 00:12:57,868 --> 00:13:02,994 It's not the policy of our church to involve ourselves in politics. 91 00:13:03,036 --> 00:13:05,162 I can't help you. I am sorry. 92 00:13:55,595 --> 00:13:59,847 There are those on both sides who favour force over dialogue. 93 00:13:59,888 --> 00:14:04,097 To maintain secrecy, it's best if we hold the talks in the U.K. 94 00:14:04,098 --> 00:14:06,722 In South Africa secrets are a way of life. 95 00:14:06,723 --> 00:14:09,807 They also have a habit of exploding in your face. 96 00:14:09,808 --> 00:14:11,767 I can't be bothered. I'm sorry. 97 00:14:31,233 --> 00:14:34,234 - Can I use your toilet? - Yeah, it's around the back. 98 00:15:51,468 --> 00:15:55,427 Love has a habit of pushing us into the arms of philosophy. 99 00:15:55,969 --> 00:15:58,428 An earthquake claims a thousand lives. 100 00:15:59,094 --> 00:16:01,512 Families bludgeoned to death by intruders. 101 00:16:02,137 --> 00:16:03,888 The death of a much loved child. 102 00:16:04,347 --> 00:16:08,015 Such events prompt us to ask how a benign deity can allow... 103 00:16:08,849 --> 00:16:10,682 such tragedies to happen. 104 00:16:17,185 --> 00:16:23,687 The task of Philosophy is to rise above the futility and chaos of daily life... 105 00:16:23,728 --> 00:16:26,438 to seek a deeper truth to our existence. 106 00:16:29,355 --> 00:16:32,731 I'll finish with the words of Pascal. 107 00:16:33,774 --> 00:16:36,899 'If man's dignity lies in thought... 108 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:41,942 then let us all strive to think well.' 109 00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:45,235 Good day. 110 00:16:48,361 --> 00:16:49,403 Be warned! 111 00:16:49,487 --> 00:16:52,821 Those who have not yet handed in their assignment on Freedom and the State... 112 00:16:52,863 --> 00:16:55,739 will find their own freedom curtailed. 113 00:16:58,156 --> 00:17:00,783 Mr Gruber, make my day. 114 00:17:01,241 --> 00:17:04,242 Treat yourself to a new typewriter ribbon. 115 00:17:15,746 --> 00:17:17,455 Mr Young, I assume? 116 00:17:26,582 --> 00:17:28,875 An audacious mission you've undertaken. 117 00:17:30,958 --> 00:17:33,501 A mission impossible, might be more apt. 118 00:17:33,502 --> 00:17:35,169 What you are asking is impossible. 119 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,420 No sane man would put his livelihood, not to mention his life... 120 00:17:41,253 --> 00:17:43,671 on the line to break bread with the devil. 121 00:17:43,922 --> 00:17:46,631 In this country, those who go public against Apartheid... 122 00:17:46,714 --> 00:17:49,131 acquire the status of a pariah. 123 00:17:49,507 --> 00:17:52,341 Yet, you still agreed to meet with me? 124 00:17:53,591 --> 00:17:58,511 You say Consolidated Goldfields have agreed to fund these meetings? 125 00:18:00,135 --> 00:18:03,178 Your founder would turn in his grave. 126 00:18:04,553 --> 00:18:08,430 Rhodes knew that market forces can succeed where politicians fail. 127 00:18:08,472 --> 00:18:10,806 You are being disingenuous. 128 00:18:10,847 --> 00:18:14,932 This is about your company protecting it's investments here, is it not? 129 00:18:14,973 --> 00:18:19,308 They know apartheid is an anathema morally and economically. 130 00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:21,476 They've colluded with it long enough. 131 00:18:29,311 --> 00:18:35,605 It's an open secret that a silent coup has taken place in our country. 132 00:18:36,147 --> 00:18:40,774 Botha no longer consults Parliament or the cabinet... 133 00:18:41,357 --> 00:18:44,692 but rules in the manner of a medieval monarch. 134 00:18:45,316 --> 00:18:49,318 Only his inner sanctum of security advisors have his ear. 135 00:18:50,194 --> 00:18:53,570 It's they who wield the power, and they are not interested... 136 00:18:54,362 --> 00:18:56,488 in a political solution. 137 00:19:09,492 --> 00:19:12,367 Like most Afrikaners, I find... 138 00:19:12,368 --> 00:19:16,369 the murderous methodology of the ANC morally repugnant... 139 00:19:16,411 --> 00:19:20,828 and the idea of cosying up to them is abhorrent... 140 00:19:20,829 --> 00:19:22,830 even the thought makes me retch. 141 00:19:37,501 --> 00:19:41,669 I'm sorry that you had a wasted journey. 142 00:19:43,211 --> 00:19:45,713 I am not the man for your mission. 143 00:20:04,552 --> 00:20:06,094 Get on the move. 144 00:21:15,326 --> 00:21:18,117 If you are not otherwise engaged, Mr Mandela... 145 00:21:18,118 --> 00:21:21,161 the Minister of Justice invites you to join him for tea. 146 00:21:22,036 --> 00:21:25,661 I'm told it's cucumber sandwiches this time. 147 00:21:30,288 --> 00:21:32,747 It seems you have another visitor, too. 148 00:21:32,748 --> 00:21:34,915 The Head of National Intelligence, no less. 149 00:21:36,124 --> 00:21:38,125 Doctor Barnard is here? 150 00:21:42,084 --> 00:21:44,960 A moment if you please, Mr Brand. 151 00:22:46,064 --> 00:22:47,648 Copy, control. 152 00:22:55,108 --> 00:22:56,067 Thank you. 153 00:22:56,692 --> 00:22:59,693 Control. Confirm subject's arrival. 154 00:23:09,488 --> 00:23:12,614 Mr Coatsee. Good to see you again. 155 00:23:12,656 --> 00:23:15,782 Good to see you too, Mr Mandela. 156 00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:20,075 Doctor Neil Barnard is here, Head of National Intelligence. 157 00:23:20,116 --> 00:23:22,592 He's asked to sit in on our discussions. 158 00:23:22,637 --> 00:23:25,348 Mr Nelson Mandela. Doctor Neil Barnard. 159 00:24:16,984 --> 00:24:19,569 ...used tear gas to disperse the crowd... 160 00:24:19,570 --> 00:24:21,030 in what a security forces spokesperson described as... 161 00:24:21,072 --> 00:24:24,368 'necessary measures to contain the violence'. 162 00:24:24,409 --> 00:24:28,120 And, there were further arrests when Eug�ne Terre'Blanche's AWB party... 163 00:24:28,121 --> 00:24:32,125 held a recruitment rally, four people were detained. 164 00:24:32,167 --> 00:24:36,588 If they want to take this country by force and violence... 165 00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:41,426 they'll meet us over the barrel of a gun. 166 00:24:41,468 --> 00:24:43,387 A! W! B! 167 00:25:13,333 --> 00:25:14,292 Michael Young. 168 00:25:15,585 --> 00:25:20,550 I cannot stand by and do nothing while my country is reduced to ashes. 169 00:25:21,175 --> 00:25:22,635 I'll come to your meeting. 170 00:25:23,761 --> 00:25:25,430 Let me know where and when. 171 00:25:47,327 --> 00:25:49,287 Doctor Barnard, Mr President. 172 00:25:51,539 --> 00:25:55,168 - Did he take the bait? - And deny his moment of destiny? 173 00:25:57,086 --> 00:26:00,840 - He took it alright. - Vanity... vanity. 174 00:26:25,741 --> 00:26:27,076 Tambo's waiting to see you. 175 00:26:29,662 --> 00:26:33,123 Oliver, maybe these talks are the opportunity we've been waiting for. 176 00:26:33,165 --> 00:26:35,334 Yes, but not everyone is going to like it. 177 00:26:35,584 --> 00:26:37,586 Many will see this as a betrayal. 178 00:26:37,670 --> 00:26:42,131 So, we need to keep this between us, and report back only to me. 179 00:26:42,132 --> 00:26:43,550 Be careful, Thabo. 180 00:27:05,656 --> 00:27:06,532 We're in. 181 00:27:07,617 --> 00:27:09,536 Some housekeeping notes. 182 00:27:09,995 --> 00:27:12,414 No telephone communication with the ANC either... 183 00:27:12,415 --> 00:27:14,582 in Lusaka or here in London. 184 00:27:15,417 --> 00:27:19,504 South African Intelligence have our phones tapped. Yours too, by now. 185 00:27:20,130 --> 00:27:23,174 Don't think because you're back in London you're not vulnerable. 186 00:27:23,383 --> 00:27:27,554 Car and letter bombs are the weapons of choice of the security agents. 187 00:27:27,595 --> 00:27:28,805 Welcome to our world. 188 00:27:37,397 --> 00:27:39,357 The board get wind we're jumping into bed... 189 00:27:39,399 --> 00:27:42,193 with a bunch of Kalashnikov carrying terrorists... 190 00:27:43,278 --> 00:27:46,405 we'll both be out on our ears. You realise that? 191 00:27:46,406 --> 00:27:48,158 They can't ignore reality. 192 00:27:48,783 --> 00:27:52,328 Every day Botha gets more isolated, the country more ungovernable. 193 00:27:52,329 --> 00:27:55,832 Something doesn't give, and soon the company will go down with it. 194 00:27:57,792 --> 00:28:00,836 You see your role in this as what? 195 00:28:00,837 --> 00:28:03,591 To create a neutral arena and step aside. 196 00:28:04,008 --> 00:28:07,469 Hope that they can see each other as men, rather than as enemies. 197 00:28:07,470 --> 00:28:09,263 A risky strategy. 198 00:28:09,305 --> 00:28:11,265 Others are risking more than that. 199 00:28:13,351 --> 00:28:16,437 Heroics don't cut much ice with shareholders. 200 00:28:22,818 --> 00:28:27,948 A 'need to know' basis. Only. Trust no-one. Confide in no-one. 201 00:28:28,616 --> 00:28:33,204 I'll bury the costs under Research and Development, or some such. 202 00:28:35,498 --> 00:28:40,252 Arrangements for my personal affairs should anything happen to me. 203 00:28:40,544 --> 00:28:43,089 - You think that's likely? - A precaution. 204 00:28:47,551 --> 00:28:48,511 Michael? 205 00:28:49,929 --> 00:28:51,222 If this ever gets out... 206 00:28:51,263 --> 00:28:54,975 I shall have to deny all knowledge of it and, disown you. 207 00:28:57,019 --> 00:28:59,941 And, I'll be nothing, if not convincing. 208 00:29:27,689 --> 00:29:29,106 Passport? Ticket? 209 00:29:30,898 --> 00:29:31,857 Taxi. 210 00:29:42,445 --> 00:29:43,570 It's okay. 211 00:29:50,364 --> 00:29:51,531 Professor. 212 00:29:56,617 --> 00:29:58,035 In the nick of time. 213 00:30:03,536 --> 00:30:05,037 May I come in? 214 00:30:22,043 --> 00:30:25,127 In public, Botha's still holding the party line... 215 00:30:25,169 --> 00:30:28,587 that you must defeat terrorists before you can negotiate with them. 216 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,589 Privately, he wants you to continue the dialogue for as long as possible. 217 00:30:34,213 --> 00:30:37,798 The more we know about the ANC's fault lines in their power structure... 218 00:30:38,674 --> 00:30:41,675 the better we are equipped to control the end game. 219 00:30:41,717 --> 00:30:44,593 So, I am to act as your spy? 220 00:30:48,302 --> 00:30:51,221 A go between is more what we had in mind. 221 00:30:53,889 --> 00:30:58,432 Have you thought why you were chosen to lead these talks, Professor? 222 00:31:00,475 --> 00:31:02,390 You're a soft target. 223 00:31:02,391 --> 00:31:05,768 They think your reputation as an advocate for social justice... 224 00:31:05,809 --> 00:31:07,685 gives them a way in. 225 00:31:10,227 --> 00:31:11,811 Play along. 226 00:31:13,104 --> 00:31:15,480 Mbeki must think you are just a... 227 00:31:16,813 --> 00:31:19,981 respected academic on a fact-finding mission. 228 00:31:20,482 --> 00:31:23,607 A soft target is not a soft touch, Doctor. 229 00:31:23,608 --> 00:31:26,609 I'm going to that meeting to hear what they have to say. 230 00:31:27,026 --> 00:31:30,110 As importantly for them to hear what I have to say. 231 00:31:31,069 --> 00:31:33,570 The whole process is futile otherwise. 232 00:31:33,903 --> 00:31:36,613 Ja, but the thing is, you see, Professor. 233 00:31:37,071 --> 00:31:38,529 You don't co-operate... 234 00:31:39,781 --> 00:31:42,949 your participation in the process will be terminated. 235 00:31:50,369 --> 00:31:53,370 My direct line. Call me. 236 00:31:56,746 --> 00:32:00,747 You need to be vigilant about incendiary devices now. 237 00:32:01,872 --> 00:32:04,457 Always check under your car before using it. 238 00:32:06,208 --> 00:32:08,875 I'll send my people over to show you how. 239 00:32:42,763 --> 00:32:44,389 And your ticket? 240 00:32:44,430 --> 00:32:46,348 Don't forget to ring Albi Sachs. 241 00:32:55,476 --> 00:32:56,269 Hello? 242 00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:58,061 This is Thabo Mbeki. I need a quick word. 243 00:32:58,102 --> 00:33:02,229 He's just left for the airport. I'll try and catch him, hold on. 244 00:33:04,313 --> 00:33:05,272 Albi! 245 00:33:12,691 --> 00:33:13,650 Albi! 246 00:33:23,820 --> 00:33:25,612 - Get another line. - Another line, please! 247 00:34:06,336 --> 00:34:10,005 Background checks on staff. And they know that security is an issue? 248 00:34:10,045 --> 00:34:11,505 I briefed them this morning. 249 00:34:11,547 --> 00:34:14,506 Brief them every morning. Just keep hammering it home. 250 00:34:19,799 --> 00:34:22,884 - This is Mr Mambenki's room. - Mbeki. 251 00:34:25,926 --> 00:34:28,886 - All the rooms are ensuite. - It's nice. 252 00:34:31,472 --> 00:34:35,181 - And, next door? - His colleague. Mr... Pahad. 253 00:34:35,723 --> 00:34:39,391 Put Professor Esterhuyse next to Mbeki. 254 00:34:39,433 --> 00:34:43,100 We need to mix them up. Maximise the opportunity for chance meetings. 255 00:34:43,142 --> 00:34:46,018 - Right. - Good. Thank you. 256 00:35:39,663 --> 00:35:43,749 'Welcome' seems a meagre word for such an occasion. 257 00:35:44,499 --> 00:35:48,167 But, it is no less sincere, all the same. 258 00:35:49,459 --> 00:35:52,627 Now, as you can see from the agenda I drew up... 259 00:35:53,169 --> 00:35:55,419 we have a lot of ground to cover. 260 00:35:55,795 --> 00:36:00,463 So, if we're to get through it I think it is essential that... 261 00:36:00,505 --> 00:36:02,005 With respect, Mr Young. 262 00:36:02,089 --> 00:36:05,131 Since you are not South African, it's not your agenda. 263 00:36:05,715 --> 00:36:07,049 It's ours. 264 00:36:10,758 --> 00:36:12,884 And, with respect, Mr Mbeki... 265 00:36:12,926 --> 00:36:17,469 I must remind you that the agenda was agreed by both sides in advance. 266 00:36:26,473 --> 00:36:30,974 Item one. The ANC perspective. 267 00:36:34,434 --> 00:36:40,228 We know that you Afrikaners have paid in blood for your country. 268 00:36:40,728 --> 00:36:42,145 As, we have. 269 00:36:43,188 --> 00:36:45,522 We know too, that it was from your suffering... 270 00:36:45,563 --> 00:36:48,314 that a system of apartheid was incubated. 271 00:36:49,606 --> 00:36:53,566 The need to dominate is often a consequence of survival. 272 00:36:53,608 --> 00:36:55,775 Our problem is, as exiles, we are... 273 00:36:55,776 --> 00:36:59,276 outside the political system. 274 00:36:59,318 --> 00:37:01,860 So, we are not in a position to offer any concessions or compromises... 275 00:37:01,861 --> 00:37:05,904 in any potential negotiations with the government. 276 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,322 If you can't offer concessions, what can you offer? 277 00:37:12,323 --> 00:37:14,949 All we can do is set out our stall of demands. 278 00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:18,868 The release of Nelson Mandela and all political prisoners. 279 00:37:18,910 --> 00:37:21,952 The unbanning of all proscribed political organisations. 280 00:37:21,953 --> 00:37:27,371 Only then can a negotiated transition to majority rule take place. 281 00:37:27,413 --> 00:37:32,831 So, then, we can take it that there is no truth in the rumour... 282 00:37:32,832 --> 00:37:35,833 that the ANC hopes Mandela will die in prison? 283 00:37:35,874 --> 00:37:38,834 Thus elevating him to the status of martyr. 284 00:37:38,875 --> 00:37:41,334 You don't think he's achieved that status already? 285 00:37:41,376 --> 00:37:44,460 That rumour, along with most information about us... 286 00:37:44,502 --> 00:37:46,503 is based on disinformation. 287 00:37:46,545 --> 00:37:50,296 And, the riots and bloodshed if he does get released? 288 00:37:50,338 --> 00:37:53,588 Can you guarantee you can control your guerrilla extremists? 289 00:37:53,589 --> 00:37:56,464 Controlling Mrs Mandela and her necklacing would be a start. 290 00:37:56,465 --> 00:38:00,466 As would controlling the brutality of your security police. 291 00:38:02,092 --> 00:38:03,801 Can you guarantee that? 292 00:38:06,094 --> 00:38:09,970 There's talk in Pretoria that Botha is considering... 293 00:38:10,012 --> 00:38:13,847 forming a new body to be affiliated to Parliament... 294 00:38:13,848 --> 00:38:19,307 where black representatives can join the coloured and Indian delegates... 295 00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:21,641 as a prelude to power sharing. 296 00:38:21,642 --> 00:38:23,892 Can we ask your opinion on such a proposal? 297 00:38:23,934 --> 00:38:25,184 What is yours? 298 00:38:27,519 --> 00:38:30,603 I'm just here on a fact-finding mission, Mr Mbeki. 299 00:38:31,937 --> 00:38:33,604 Your opinion is the issue. 300 00:38:33,646 --> 00:38:36,938 My understanding is we are not here to discuss reforming Apartheid. 301 00:38:36,939 --> 00:38:41,065 Or, disguising it under some new administrative structure. 302 00:38:41,107 --> 00:38:43,233 We're here to talk about how to abolish it. 303 00:38:44,275 --> 00:38:49,235 What we are seeking, is a prelude to majority rule. 304 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,195 Power sharing, is not an option. 305 00:39:25,082 --> 00:39:26,166 Ah, Professor. 306 00:39:46,757 --> 00:39:49,300 Okay. Good, good. Gentlemen, please. Good. 307 00:39:50,258 --> 00:39:53,009 Perhaps, if you outline the specific nature of your fears... 308 00:39:53,051 --> 00:39:54,885 relating to majority rule. 309 00:39:56,636 --> 00:39:59,261 It's not bloody rocket science. 310 00:40:00,845 --> 00:40:03,056 The blacks come after our blood, 311 00:40:03,139 --> 00:40:06,473 and our children get slaughtered in their beds. That, is the reality. 312 00:40:06,474 --> 00:40:11,142 A communist leaning administration will destroy our economic stability. 313 00:40:11,184 --> 00:40:13,934 They'll end up in the same post colonial chaos... 314 00:40:13,935 --> 00:40:16,226 as the other African states. 315 00:40:16,268 --> 00:40:17,269 Professor? 316 00:40:17,561 --> 00:40:21,520 You'll obliterate not only our language and our culture, but our human rights. 317 00:40:21,896 --> 00:40:25,272 Fear is the first weapon of the oppressor. 318 00:40:25,314 --> 00:40:29,648 It blinds us all from seeing the humanity of the other. 319 00:40:29,649 --> 00:40:32,107 Your hands are not so clean either, Mr Mbeki. 320 00:40:33,025 --> 00:40:36,234 What is your campaign of terror based on if not fear? 321 00:40:36,276 --> 00:40:39,443 The culture of fear is not of our making, Professor. 322 00:40:39,444 --> 00:40:42,362 We learnt it at the feet of our masters. 323 00:40:50,447 --> 00:40:54,074 You're looking tired, Mr Mandela. We've kept you talking too late again. 324 00:40:54,449 --> 00:40:58,326 Fortunately, I had no other plans tonight. 325 00:41:00,744 --> 00:41:03,995 I look forward to our next conversation, Doctor. 326 00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:07,580 For a moment I thought you said, 'negotiation'. 327 00:41:08,372 --> 00:41:11,289 My ear's playing tricks on me. 328 00:41:12,706 --> 00:41:14,165 Good night, Doctor. 329 00:41:15,916 --> 00:41:18,292 - Mr. Coatsee. - Good night. 330 00:41:23,293 --> 00:41:25,878 Stop all contact with the other Robben Islanders. 331 00:41:27,504 --> 00:41:30,504 We don't need their Greek Chorus in his ear. 332 00:41:30,505 --> 00:41:31,380 Alright. 333 00:41:33,339 --> 00:41:35,464 And get him a suit for next time. 334 00:41:35,465 --> 00:41:38,215 We'll get more out of him if he thinks he's an equal. 335 00:41:38,216 --> 00:41:39,800 Okay. It's a good idea. 336 00:42:23,233 --> 00:42:24,483 I'll leave you to it. 337 00:42:24,525 --> 00:42:28,902 I just think things might free up a bit without an outsider present. 338 00:42:33,903 --> 00:42:35,612 Bored with us already? 339 00:42:37,572 --> 00:42:39,733 It's a tactical withdrawal. 340 00:42:57,318 --> 00:42:58,318 So, Professor. 341 00:43:01,152 --> 00:43:03,362 When you first saw me, did you think... 342 00:43:03,402 --> 00:43:07,904 'Ah, so that's what a fucking, communist terrorist looks like'? 343 00:43:11,155 --> 00:43:14,739 And, you? Did you think... 344 00:43:14,781 --> 00:43:19,074 'Ah, so that's what a fucking racist Boer looks like'? 345 00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:23,450 No doubt, you assume our claim to be non-racial... 346 00:43:23,492 --> 00:43:27,867 is just a rhetoric of political convenience, but you are mistaken. 347 00:43:29,326 --> 00:43:30,952 It's what defines us. 348 00:43:34,828 --> 00:43:39,329 And you are mistaken in your assumptions about us, Mr Mbeki. 349 00:43:41,246 --> 00:43:44,873 Our fear doesn't stem from propaganda... 350 00:43:46,082 --> 00:43:49,666 but from the deep rooted knowledge that one day we will be punished... 351 00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:54,667 for all the terrible wrongs we have inflicted. 352 00:44:11,755 --> 00:44:13,672 Good night, Professor. 353 00:44:15,005 --> 00:44:16,214 Goodnight. 354 00:45:57,868 --> 00:45:58,743 Hello? 355 00:46:01,077 --> 00:46:02,494 Professor? 356 00:46:07,078 --> 00:46:09,038 Can I help you? 357 00:46:41,963 --> 00:46:45,756 Young gave his assurance the place was clean of bugs. 358 00:46:45,757 --> 00:46:47,548 I couldn't take the chance. 359 00:46:51,258 --> 00:46:56,301 I hope to God, you don't make me regret what I'm about to do. 360 00:46:57,509 --> 00:47:01,719 To the press and parliament, Botha's still on message that... 361 00:47:01,761 --> 00:47:06,511 you must abandon your weapons before he'll conduct a dialogue with you. 362 00:47:10,763 --> 00:47:15,389 But, my presence here suggests otherwise. 363 00:47:21,098 --> 00:47:23,351 Botha knows about these talks? 364 00:47:25,434 --> 00:47:29,352 I'm instructed to report back to him via Doctor Barnard... 365 00:47:29,393 --> 00:47:31,019 in National Intelligence. 366 00:47:35,354 --> 00:47:37,938 I'm to be their Trojan horse. 367 00:47:44,731 --> 00:47:47,273 You take a risk telling me this, Professor. 368 00:47:49,149 --> 00:47:50,857 It would be a risk not telling you. 369 00:47:55,108 --> 00:47:57,235 Without trust, we'll achieve nothing. 370 00:47:58,276 --> 00:47:59,735 Tambo says if we are to... 371 00:48:01,610 --> 00:48:03,736 win our freedom we must first... 372 00:48:05,028 --> 00:48:07,153 banish bitterness. 373 00:48:09,946 --> 00:48:11,571 This will be the test of it. 374 00:48:13,072 --> 00:48:14,113 For all of us. 375 00:48:34,370 --> 00:48:35,453 Get him ready. 376 00:48:36,578 --> 00:48:39,496 Let's give him a taste of what he's been missing. 377 00:48:40,413 --> 00:48:42,497 If you could just turn around. 378 00:48:48,290 --> 00:48:50,082 - Okay. It's good? - Ja. 379 00:48:53,333 --> 00:48:57,459 I've lost the knack of tying them over the years. 380 00:49:00,043 --> 00:49:00,812 Well, shall we? 381 00:50:56,137 --> 00:50:57,931 Got it. I've got it. 382 00:51:07,737 --> 00:51:08,696 Barnard. 383 00:51:08,988 --> 00:51:11,241 Did he enjoy his day of freedom? 384 00:51:11,283 --> 00:51:13,036 Enough to get a taste for it, let's hope. 385 00:51:14,955 --> 00:51:17,791 - And the UK talks? - Work in progress. 386 00:51:17,834 --> 00:51:20,837 I need more than that to placate the bloody doves in Cabinet. 387 00:51:20,838 --> 00:51:23,466 Sir, the Cabinet must know absolutely nothing about this. 388 00:51:23,507 --> 00:51:26,803 If some loose lips blabs to CNN the whole process could implode on us. 389 00:51:26,804 --> 00:51:31,018 You sold me these talks to get the inside track on the ANC. 390 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,604 To give us leverage over Mandela. 391 00:51:33,605 --> 00:51:36,275 If you're not going to deliver. What's the damn point? 392 00:51:44,536 --> 00:51:47,540 I have his exact words here somewhere. 393 00:51:55,175 --> 00:51:56,636 Leave us. 394 00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:07,860 I do have a home to go to, Doctor. 395 00:52:13,368 --> 00:52:18,207 At the risk of invoking more accusations that I'm gullible and naive, I repeat... 396 00:52:19,793 --> 00:52:23,965 In my view, Mbeki, is a man the government can do business with. 397 00:52:24,383 --> 00:52:26,427 A view based on what? 398 00:52:30,641 --> 00:52:33,145 Your cosy fireside chats? 399 00:52:33,186 --> 00:52:37,400 His existential ramblings about universal suffrage? 400 00:52:39,903 --> 00:52:42,782 One can respect a man's commitment to his ideals... 401 00:52:42,824 --> 00:52:45,411 without sharing his methods of achieving them. 402 00:52:47,914 --> 00:52:52,462 Forgive me, if I don't also genuflect at his altar of self government. 403 00:52:52,503 --> 00:52:54,214 Talk is cheap, Professor. 404 00:52:55,382 --> 00:52:58,054 He made no concessions, did he? Not one. 405 00:52:59,389 --> 00:53:03,728 His so called conversion to moderation is a ploy, orchestrated by Tambo. 406 00:53:03,770 --> 00:53:04,645 And you... 407 00:53:05,689 --> 00:53:07,232 you fell for it. 408 00:53:15,660 --> 00:53:19,040 - Can I go home? - Not yet. 409 00:53:41,946 --> 00:53:45,200 Mandela sent his lawyer with a message for me. 410 00:53:45,451 --> 00:53:49,456 They've isolated him from Sisulu and the other Robben Islanders. 411 00:53:52,168 --> 00:53:56,383 He's been holding secret talks with Doctor Barnard from the N.I. S... 412 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,511 who reports back to Botha. 413 00:53:59,012 --> 00:54:02,182 I pressed Bizoz on the content of the meetings. 414 00:54:02,224 --> 00:54:04,060 He claims Nelson said nothing. 415 00:54:04,561 --> 00:54:07,481 He wanted to assure me he's acting in good faith. 416 00:54:07,523 --> 00:54:09,443 He's walking into a trap. 417 00:54:11,028 --> 00:54:14,491 Botha knows about the U.K. talks. 418 00:54:14,533 --> 00:54:18,203 Barnard recruited Esterhuyse to act as his informer. 419 00:54:18,204 --> 00:54:21,125 They're playing 'divide and rule' with us. 420 00:54:22,209 --> 00:54:25,422 Pretoria will claim that South Africa's most famous prisoner... 421 00:54:25,464 --> 00:54:29,219 wanted a peaceful settlement but the ANC terrorists... 422 00:54:29,261 --> 00:54:32,181 rejected it to pursue their doctrine of violence. 423 00:54:32,182 --> 00:54:34,477 Madiba would never fall for such a trick. 424 00:54:34,518 --> 00:54:36,771 How do we know what his mental state is? 425 00:54:36,812 --> 00:54:38,815 The pressure he's under? 426 00:54:39,524 --> 00:54:42,820 What concessions he'll make in return for his freedom? 427 00:54:45,407 --> 00:54:50,540 If he's so solid with us why not tell us what he's doing? 428 00:54:52,085 --> 00:54:55,255 Why exclude you, of all people. 429 00:54:57,926 --> 00:55:00,721 This Esterhuyse, do you trust him? 430 00:55:04,976 --> 00:55:05,685 Yes. 431 00:55:05,769 --> 00:55:08,815 A man you've barely known a few hours? 432 00:55:08,856 --> 00:55:11,984 Yet, I'm supposed to doubt a man I've known a lifetime. 433 00:55:11,985 --> 00:55:13,947 Who sacrificed everything for us. 434 00:55:13,988 --> 00:55:15,741 If trust is the issue... 435 00:55:17,660 --> 00:55:20,287 perhaps it is my judgement which is in doubt. 436 00:55:20,288 --> 00:55:23,711 If we let ourselves be tainted by distrust... 437 00:55:23,752 --> 00:55:29,134 Botha's tactics will succeed. We play into his hands. 438 00:56:06,435 --> 00:56:10,441 The bombing came less than 24 hours after President Botha told parliament... 439 00:56:10,483 --> 00:56:13,987 that security forces had uncovered a terrorist cell in Natal... 440 00:56:14,029 --> 00:56:16,699 and arrested 23 suspected insurgents. 441 00:56:16,741 --> 00:56:20,245 We understand that two of the terrorists evaded capture. 442 00:56:20,287 --> 00:56:24,042 Security Forces have stepped up their search in the Soweto area. 443 00:56:32,845 --> 00:56:34,056 Get in here. 444 00:56:44,237 --> 00:56:47,909 I'm home, Marie. Anyone home? 445 00:58:04,095 --> 00:58:07,098 Target is confirmed. Tomorrow at twelve p.m. 446 00:58:07,099 --> 00:58:07,850 Sure. 447 01:00:18,236 --> 01:00:20,157 And the bloodshed in South Africa today... 448 01:00:20,198 --> 01:00:22,410 after a bomb exploded outside a shopping centre... 449 01:00:22,451 --> 01:00:24,496 in Roodeport, near Johannesburg. 450 01:00:25,122 --> 01:00:27,709 Four civilians were killed and 18 others injured. 451 01:00:28,251 --> 01:00:31,129 A spokesman claimed that the target was a nearby bank. 452 01:00:31,130 --> 01:00:33,842 He declined to give details on the operational difficulties... 453 01:00:33,884 --> 01:00:35,468 which caused the explosion. 454 01:00:38,347 --> 01:00:43,354 Is that how you justify your campaign of indiscriminate bombings... 455 01:00:43,396 --> 01:00:45,482 the killing of innocent civilians? 456 01:00:45,608 --> 01:00:48,236 We have never supported the killing of civilians. 457 01:00:48,278 --> 01:00:50,906 Tell that to the women and children that you maim and kill... 458 01:00:50,907 --> 01:00:53,993 with your limpet bombs and your pipe bombs. 459 01:00:53,994 --> 01:00:57,415 Or are dead children legitimate collateral damage... 460 01:00:57,457 --> 01:00:59,334 to promote your cycle of terror? 461 01:00:59,335 --> 01:01:02,964 I can quote you chapter and verse on dead children, Professor. 462 01:01:03,006 --> 01:01:06,010 Names, ages and dates, my son included. 463 01:01:09,097 --> 01:01:12,567 I think a break is in order, gentlemen. 464 01:01:12,820 --> 01:01:17,449 ANC policy is, and always has been... 465 01:01:17,450 --> 01:01:21,870 that only military and economic targets are legitimate. 466 01:01:21,912 --> 01:01:24,121 If it smells like crap and it sounds like crap... 467 01:01:24,205 --> 01:01:26,539 chances are, it is crap. 468 01:01:28,625 --> 01:01:31,043 Not once have I tried to justify... 469 01:01:31,085 --> 01:01:34,336 the excesses of the South African Security Forces. 470 01:01:34,337 --> 01:01:40,133 Yet, you persist in spouting this pre-digested dogma at me. 471 01:01:40,175 --> 01:01:45,928 Maybe they think if they say it enough times, we'll buy it. 472 01:01:45,929 --> 01:01:50,516 This really is not productive, so either we move on... 473 01:01:50,557 --> 01:01:55,060 The timing, of the Roodeport bomb isn't coincidental. 474 01:01:55,644 --> 01:01:57,396 Lusaka authorised it... 475 01:01:58,522 --> 01:02:01,524 in the full knowledge of our meetings. 476 01:02:03,149 --> 01:02:05,651 It's the old terror tactic... 477 01:02:05,652 --> 01:02:09,862 once the talking starts, step up the violence. 478 01:02:10,906 --> 01:02:13,574 If you think that's going to strengthen your hand... 479 01:02:13,616 --> 01:02:16,326 in any negotiations with the Government... 480 01:02:16,327 --> 01:02:20,664 you've seen to it that all chance of that is off the table. 481 01:02:23,457 --> 01:02:24,958 Frankly... 482 01:02:31,505 --> 01:02:33,631 so are these talks. 483 01:02:58,399 --> 01:03:01,109 - Time to turn up the heat. - Alright. 484 01:03:05,322 --> 01:03:07,532 Hello, Mr Mandela. Please. 485 01:03:14,996 --> 01:03:17,414 Let's talk about Roodeport. 486 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:25,795 It needed saying. 487 01:03:29,423 --> 01:03:31,466 There was no getting round it. 488 01:03:33,092 --> 01:03:34,384 Perhaps. 489 01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,805 But, box a man into a corner and... 490 01:03:40,932 --> 01:03:43,767 The President is running out of patience, Mr Mandela. 491 01:03:43,808 --> 01:03:46,601 Either, you denounce the communist links with the ANC... 492 01:03:46,602 --> 01:03:48,020 condemn the violence... 493 01:03:49,687 --> 01:03:55,025 or, frankly, you and I? We have nothing further to discuss. 494 01:03:55,067 --> 01:03:59,278 When political movements are forced underground... 495 01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,697 they inevitably are thrown together... 496 01:04:04,366 --> 01:04:08,994 and, no man of honour would desert a lifelong friend... 497 01:04:09,036 --> 01:04:11,871 at the request of a common enemy. 498 01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,168 Gentlemen, excuse us. 499 01:04:29,467 --> 01:04:32,303 You're not the only game in town, Mr Mandela. 500 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:35,806 Don't you see? 501 01:04:37,181 --> 01:04:40,684 This is your chance to seize the initiative. 502 01:04:41,393 --> 01:04:44,853 The ANC think they can bomb their way into power... 503 01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:50,525 but a few words from you, condemning the violence... 504 01:04:52,401 --> 01:04:54,986 will not only secure your freedom... 505 01:04:56,572 --> 01:05:02,617 but will ensure that you alone... 506 01:05:02,659 --> 01:05:05,036 will be the man the Government deals with. 507 01:05:07,454 --> 01:05:12,500 You, alone, can lead us all out of this impasse. 508 01:05:19,130 --> 01:05:23,174 Haven't your years of sacrifice earned you that right? 509 01:06:12,878 --> 01:06:14,796 This is the situation. 510 01:06:16,839 --> 01:06:18,965 All ANC bombing operations... 511 01:06:18,966 --> 01:06:22,427 fall under the command and control structure in Lusaka. 512 01:06:22,469 --> 01:06:26,804 But, some of our cadres, believing force to be the only way... 513 01:06:26,846 --> 01:06:29,432 sometimes act without authority. 514 01:06:31,475 --> 01:06:33,519 Operations can get bungled. 515 01:06:35,311 --> 01:06:36,646 Innocent people... 516 01:06:38,021 --> 01:06:39,064 get killed. 517 01:06:41,857 --> 01:06:43,609 But, you have my word... 518 01:06:44,401 --> 01:06:47,071 that I will do everything in my power... 519 01:06:47,112 --> 01:06:51,824 to ensure that civilians no longer suffer from our inadequacies. 520 01:06:53,033 --> 01:06:56,911 Are you telling us that you are unable to control some of your... 521 01:06:57,954 --> 01:07:01,665 renegade cadres, Mr Mbeki? 522 01:07:02,457 --> 01:07:05,084 If you know the truth of our situation, Professor... 523 01:07:06,460 --> 01:07:10,463 you will see that the issue of violence... 524 01:07:10,505 --> 01:07:14,257 is irrevocably connected to the other issues we wrestle with. 525 01:07:14,924 --> 01:07:18,468 Only when we can participate in a truly democratic process... 526 01:07:18,510 --> 01:07:23,722 will our armed struggle become obsolete. 527 01:07:23,764 --> 01:07:28,934 Only then will the conflict between us end. 528 01:07:41,443 --> 01:07:44,697 - How did you sleep? - Not too bad. You? 529 01:07:45,531 --> 01:07:48,532 Alright, except for terrible dreams about lawyers. 530 01:07:48,533 --> 01:07:49,951 Oh, yes. That is a nightmare. 531 01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:55,245 So, anyway, Thatcher is in Moscow... 532 01:07:55,246 --> 01:07:57,081 the crowds in Red Square are all over her, mobbing her... 533 01:07:57,123 --> 01:08:00,500 She's getting quite queasy with all this adulation... 534 01:08:00,542 --> 01:08:04,211 so, she says to her interpreter, 'I'm not a communist, you know? ' 535 01:08:05,171 --> 01:08:08,339 And, they shout back, 'Neither are we! ' 536 01:08:18,555 --> 01:08:23,517 I came here believing what happened at Roodeport had derailed everything... 537 01:08:24,100 --> 01:08:26,186 you changed that. 538 01:08:27,061 --> 01:08:30,856 What you said in that room will go no further. 539 01:08:37,695 --> 01:08:40,155 - Safe home, Willie. - May I tell you... 540 01:08:44,074 --> 01:08:47,074 how truly sorry I am about your son. 541 01:08:51,949 --> 01:08:52,657 Thank you. 542 01:09:38,281 --> 01:09:39,239 Thabo? 543 01:10:15,612 --> 01:10:17,237 Come off the road. 544 01:12:38,274 --> 01:12:41,401 There was an incident on the way from the airport. 545 01:12:45,613 --> 01:12:48,531 They were not security agents. 546 01:12:54,202 --> 01:12:57,079 Word is out about your talks. 547 01:12:57,287 --> 01:13:00,957 Some of the militants will use any tactics to halt them. 548 01:13:01,916 --> 01:13:05,834 For two decades we've said only force will crush the enemy. 549 01:13:06,126 --> 01:13:08,836 Instead of force, we now preach talks. 550 01:13:10,004 --> 01:13:12,673 They see that as a betrayal. 551 01:13:12,714 --> 01:13:15,508 And when you pressed him on the violence issue... 552 01:13:15,509 --> 01:13:19,553 did he admit the ANC high command now sanction civilian targets? 553 01:13:19,595 --> 01:13:22,221 He made the same point he has made from the beginning... 554 01:13:22,222 --> 01:13:23,974 cessation of violence... 555 01:13:24,015 --> 01:13:28,518 is contingent on the Government committing to a democratic process. 556 01:13:37,483 --> 01:13:41,485 You told him there can be no question of that while the violence continues? 557 01:13:41,527 --> 01:13:44,696 Tell me, Doctor, should they agree to... 558 01:13:45,780 --> 01:13:50,033 give up the armed struggle and negotiate with the government... 559 01:13:50,075 --> 01:13:52,285 what would you give them in return? 560 01:13:52,702 --> 01:13:56,496 You cannot go into negotiation without bringing something to the table. 561 01:13:56,538 --> 01:13:58,330 Yet you send me in empty handed. 562 01:13:58,372 --> 01:14:01,248 Don't be surprised if I come back empty handed. 563 01:14:01,249 --> 01:14:04,251 You are not empowered to negotiate, Professor. 564 01:14:06,627 --> 01:14:10,047 You're wrong. Doctor. Talk is not cheap. 565 01:14:18,846 --> 01:14:20,763 It's all we have left. 566 01:14:47,908 --> 01:14:50,492 Mr Esterhuyse takes the view that... 567 01:14:50,534 --> 01:14:52,994 before formal negotiations can take place... 568 01:14:53,036 --> 01:14:55,495 concessions, must be made on both sides. 569 01:14:56,246 --> 01:15:00,166 If we make a gesture by releasing Mandela... 570 01:15:00,208 --> 01:15:03,585 I said nothing about making concessions to Mandela's freedom. 571 01:15:03,586 --> 01:15:06,463 This is no longer a matter of political survival, sir. 572 01:15:06,963 --> 01:15:09,340 Your policy of buying us time has created a... 573 01:15:11,216 --> 01:15:14,593 a vacuum of uncertainty that is only fuelling the violence. 574 01:15:14,635 --> 01:15:16,136 You know what I think? 575 01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:21,890 This is about your own survival, covering your own sorry arse. 576 01:15:23,682 --> 01:15:26,768 If you are seen to take the initiative with the ANC... 577 01:15:27,852 --> 01:15:30,728 history will always acknowledge it was you who had the statesmanship... 578 01:15:30,729 --> 01:15:35,316 and vision to pull this country back, from the brink of civil war. 579 01:15:35,358 --> 01:15:37,858 You alone averted that catastrophe. 580 01:15:37,859 --> 01:15:41,487 History might also say I took my hand off the tiller too soon. 581 01:15:45,073 --> 01:15:49,200 I give way on Mandela's freedom now, I give away our trump card. 582 01:15:49,575 --> 01:15:51,661 He's a man like any other. 583 01:15:51,702 --> 01:15:53,703 The more he gets of it, the more he'll want it. 584 01:15:56,038 --> 01:15:57,831 Mandela is the key. 585 01:16:14,636 --> 01:16:17,763 - Where to today? - A surprise. 586 01:16:57,624 --> 01:17:00,168 Control, confirm subject arrival. 587 01:17:11,968 --> 01:17:13,719 Everything is alright, no problems. 588 01:18:17,639 --> 01:18:20,808 I hope you like your new quarters, Mr Mandela? 589 01:18:22,643 --> 01:18:24,602 This is Warrant Officer Swart. 590 01:18:25,561 --> 01:18:27,854 He'll look after you. Do your cooking and so on. 591 01:18:30,940 --> 01:18:33,358 We've met before, at Robben Island. 592 01:18:33,942 --> 01:18:35,944 I used to drive you to the quarry. 593 01:18:36,235 --> 01:18:39,821 I hope you are a better cook than you were a driver. 594 01:18:43,657 --> 01:18:47,953 Give him the tour. I'll leave you to settle in. 595 01:18:49,620 --> 01:18:52,872 There's three bedrooms. This is the largest. 596 01:18:53,665 --> 01:18:56,834 I'm sure you'll find the bed more comfortable than you're used to. 597 01:19:36,069 --> 01:19:39,029 The departmental conference is postponed, professor. 598 01:20:38,405 --> 01:20:40,574 This is Michael Young. Please leave a message. 599 01:20:40,616 --> 01:20:42,033 This is Esterhuyse. 600 01:20:43,201 --> 01:20:44,243 I suggest... 601 01:20:45,368 --> 01:20:48,829 that you make a date for the next meeting as soon as possible. 602 01:21:05,091 --> 01:21:07,258 - I missed you. - It's nice to see you back. 603 01:21:12,596 --> 01:21:15,807 Marigolds. Pansies. 604 01:21:17,766 --> 01:21:21,811 This one is in the wrong place. It needs more light. 605 01:21:22,394 --> 01:21:25,438 You pick a spot. I'll fetch a shovel. 606 01:22:48,998 --> 01:22:50,373 Mr President? 607 01:22:51,124 --> 01:22:53,041 Mr President, are you alright? 608 01:22:54,251 --> 01:22:56,335 We need an ambulance now. 609 01:22:58,087 --> 01:23:01,381 Hip, hip, hooray! 610 01:23:10,888 --> 01:23:12,638 Bye bye, Tata. 611 01:23:24,939 --> 01:23:26,524 My dear friend. 612 01:23:26,566 --> 01:23:33,404 At best, Botha regarded my gilded cage as a way to seduce me into submission. 613 01:23:35,072 --> 01:23:40,159 But I have had twenty years to prepare me for this moment. 614 01:23:42,535 --> 01:23:46,037 Talking to Barnard was a high risk strategy... 615 01:23:46,038 --> 01:23:48,331 but you can trust in one thing. 616 01:23:49,248 --> 01:23:53,085 That I am not negotiating terms with the government... 617 01:23:53,126 --> 01:23:56,920 but facilitating the process for the ANC to do so. 618 01:23:59,381 --> 01:24:05,635 Surely, you and I have come too far to let them divide us now. 619 01:24:09,388 --> 01:24:12,055 The election of the new State President F. W. De Klerk... 620 01:24:12,056 --> 01:24:14,641 has sparked a wave of violence across the country. 621 01:24:16,059 --> 01:24:18,561 And sensitivity about his commitment to reform... 622 01:24:18,603 --> 01:24:20,437 seems to be fuelling the violence. 623 01:24:21,146 --> 01:24:23,648 Mr De Klerk's position to the right of the National Party... 624 01:24:23,689 --> 01:24:27,776 have left some observers to question his appetite for change. 625 01:24:28,943 --> 01:24:32,737 Botha's mistake was his reliance on his security apparatus... 626 01:24:32,779 --> 01:24:36,198 at the expense of protecting his power base in Parliament. 627 01:24:37,157 --> 01:24:41,119 I must tell you, that is a mistake I do not intend to repeat. 628 01:24:44,496 --> 01:24:47,580 My mistake was accommodating his plan to try and divide Mandela... 629 01:24:47,581 --> 01:24:50,792 from the ANC in a futile attempt to cling on to power. 630 01:24:51,209 --> 01:24:54,461 My discussions with Mr Mandela have convinced me that the only way... 631 01:24:54,503 --> 01:24:57,422 of doing that now is to give some of it away and negotiate. 632 01:24:57,838 --> 01:25:00,465 Before it's taken from us. 633 01:25:01,799 --> 01:25:04,384 You've been detained long enough, Doctor. 634 01:25:05,969 --> 01:25:07,720 Gentlemen, shall we? 635 01:25:12,683 --> 01:25:18,270 Help us end Apartheid now! 636 01:25:18,812 --> 01:25:21,397 I doubt we're looking at the Messiah of change. 637 01:25:22,732 --> 01:25:25,025 De Klerk is a life long apologist for apartheid. 638 01:25:25,066 --> 01:25:27,109 Presumably that's why his party chose him. 639 01:25:27,151 --> 01:25:30,820 Names for the next meeting. I've added a new one. 640 01:25:31,154 --> 01:25:34,363 - Mix things up a bit. - Willem De Klerk? 641 01:25:34,364 --> 01:25:37,491 - Yes, the President's brother. - How prescient of you. 642 01:25:42,579 --> 01:25:44,371 I'm hoping he's got his brother's ear. 643 01:25:44,455 --> 01:25:47,706 Unlike F.W., he's on record condemning apartheid. 644 01:25:47,707 --> 01:25:51,418 What if his brother vetoes his attendance? Along with Esterhuyse? 645 01:25:51,460 --> 01:25:54,754 Esterhuyse is committed now. Nothing will keep him away. 646 01:25:54,795 --> 01:25:57,464 Unless his passport is revoked. 647 01:26:10,307 --> 01:26:14,018 This is the Esterhuyse residence. We're not home right now. 648 01:26:14,060 --> 01:26:16,144 If you leave a message. We'll call you back. 649 01:26:18,228 --> 01:26:20,314 And you're sure that he's nowhere in the University? 650 01:26:22,148 --> 01:26:23,691 I've tried him at home. 651 01:26:33,156 --> 01:26:36,742 Thabo. Tony. Aziz. Good to see you again. 652 01:26:39,327 --> 01:26:42,371 - The others aren't here yet? - They will be. They will be. 653 01:26:44,955 --> 01:26:47,206 If he contacts you, or if you see him... 654 01:26:47,207 --> 01:26:50,458 tell him to call Michael Young as soon as possible. 655 01:26:50,459 --> 01:26:52,461 I'll be waiting by the phone. 656 01:27:39,327 --> 01:27:41,453 Tell him that I can't see him now. 657 01:27:48,083 --> 01:27:51,210 The President will be unable to see you today after all, Doctor. 658 01:27:51,752 --> 01:27:54,421 His diary secretary will be in touch, sir. 659 01:28:32,407 --> 01:28:35,700 Bloody highway pile-up. Stuck there for hours. 660 01:28:35,701 --> 01:28:36,409 Gentlemen. 661 01:28:36,784 --> 01:28:39,202 - Michael Young, Mr De Klerk. - How do you do? 662 01:28:39,244 --> 01:28:43,080 Willem De Klerk, Journalist and political commentator, Thabo Mbeki. 663 01:28:44,582 --> 01:28:46,333 - Pleased to meet you. - Pleasure, sir. 664 01:28:47,751 --> 01:28:48,959 Shall we? 665 01:28:56,049 --> 01:28:57,550 You had us worried there. 666 01:28:57,967 --> 01:29:00,552 You don't get rid of me that easily. 667 01:29:31,073 --> 01:29:33,200 My dear friend and comrade. 668 01:29:34,075 --> 01:29:38,370 I cannot tell you my relief to hear from you at last. 669 01:29:39,245 --> 01:29:43,040 Had you contacted me before, I could have warned you... 670 01:29:43,082 --> 01:29:47,125 that yours are not the only talks taking place with the Government. 671 01:29:47,459 --> 01:29:51,380 Your release is high on the agenda of those discussions. 672 01:29:51,755 --> 01:29:55,383 Given the hard line position of the new State President... 673 01:29:55,424 --> 01:29:59,010 the future of those talks must now hang in the balance. 674 01:30:00,135 --> 01:30:04,180 Call it what it is, Willie. Minority rights, equals white rights. 675 01:30:04,222 --> 01:30:05,847 In other words, you want us to ensure... 676 01:30:05,889 --> 01:30:08,516 the privileges whites enjoy are perpetuated. 677 01:30:08,517 --> 01:30:13,727 The idea of group rights is that no group has dominance over another. 678 01:30:13,728 --> 01:30:15,021 White or black. 679 01:30:15,729 --> 01:30:19,065 Isn't that what your non-racial credo is all about? 680 01:30:19,107 --> 01:30:20,984 But without assurance of that... 681 01:30:21,025 --> 01:30:24,820 the President will never come to the negotiating table. 682 01:30:26,070 --> 01:30:27,905 Is that not so, Willem? 683 01:30:33,867 --> 01:30:36,744 That's not for me to say, Professor. 684 01:30:41,414 --> 01:30:43,875 De Klerk's brother doesn't give much away. 685 01:30:44,375 --> 01:30:48,003 He frequently points out he's not his brother's keeper. 686 01:30:50,754 --> 01:30:53,590 He barely got his feet under the table, give him time. 687 01:30:53,591 --> 01:30:54,966 Time is the enemy. 688 01:30:55,008 --> 01:30:59,511 Every day he procrastinates, is one closer to bloody insurrection. 689 01:30:59,553 --> 01:31:01,095 What is Barnard's sense of him? 690 01:31:01,721 --> 01:31:06,182 Barnard's access to the President's office is not what it used to be. 691 01:31:07,266 --> 01:31:10,810 We must rely on his brother for that now. 692 01:31:13,854 --> 01:31:17,940 I thought we might discuss your impressions of the day, Willem? 693 01:31:17,982 --> 01:31:19,774 I've some excellent brandy in my room. 694 01:31:19,816 --> 01:31:21,401 Another night, perhaps. 695 01:31:29,656 --> 01:31:31,283 My dear friend... 696 01:31:31,867 --> 01:31:37,162 our struggle is now at a tipping point, as is our country. 697 01:31:37,621 --> 01:31:41,082 We must try and convince De Klerk and his government... 698 01:31:41,124 --> 01:31:43,792 that the whites have nothing to fear from us. 699 01:31:44,627 --> 01:31:49,546 It is not revenge that governs us, but reconciliation. 700 01:31:49,588 --> 01:31:54,800 We must use every method open to us to make him understand... 701 01:31:54,842 --> 01:31:58,677 that unless he acts soon, we cannot deliver. 702 01:31:58,719 --> 01:32:00,012 What is he waiting for? 703 01:32:00,054 --> 01:32:02,513 How many more weeks, how many more months until he acts? 704 01:32:02,555 --> 01:32:06,308 And where is he on Mandela? Can he not see the longer he keeps him in prison... 705 01:32:06,350 --> 01:32:08,601 the more time he is giving for mob rule to take hold? 706 01:32:08,643 --> 01:32:09,393 Exactly! 707 01:32:09,435 --> 01:32:12,854 I do not have the answers you're looking for, Mr Mbeki. 708 01:32:12,896 --> 01:32:16,774 My brother is not in the habit of confiding in me about Government policy. 709 01:32:16,815 --> 01:32:18,900 Or anyone else, it seems. 710 01:32:22,945 --> 01:32:23,654 Yes. 711 01:32:24,654 --> 01:32:27,364 Yes, I understand well. Are you absolutely sure? 712 01:32:30,282 --> 01:32:32,034 We can't put it like that. 713 01:32:34,078 --> 01:32:39,957 Yes, it's important, but it's a waste of time. 714 01:33:09,227 --> 01:33:13,730 I apologise. I lost track of... 715 01:33:18,025 --> 01:33:21,235 Shall we start by returning to the outstanding items from yesterday? 716 01:33:21,236 --> 01:33:23,654 I wonder... Do you mind, I'm sorry? 717 01:33:24,363 --> 01:33:28,532 On behalf of my brother, I have some issues for clarification. 718 01:33:29,325 --> 01:33:30,868 If you will bear with me. 719 01:33:36,330 --> 01:33:37,373 One... 720 01:33:39,207 --> 01:33:43,419 when would it be possible for the ANC to embark on talks... 721 01:33:43,460 --> 01:33:47,629 about how to progress formal negotiations with the Government? 722 01:33:47,671 --> 01:33:49,006 Two. 723 01:33:49,047 --> 01:33:53,217 What would your preconditions be to such talks... 724 01:33:54,467 --> 01:33:57,970 and, three... what agenda would be acceptable to you? 725 01:34:13,230 --> 01:34:16,858 You can... tell the President... 726 01:34:18,776 --> 01:34:23,863 there will be no preconditions on our side... 727 01:34:25,073 --> 01:34:31,328 and we leave it to him to determine the agenda. 728 01:34:33,495 --> 01:34:35,206 As for timing... 729 01:34:39,208 --> 01:34:41,335 we are ready when he is. 730 01:34:55,969 --> 01:35:00,556 And your position on the cease fire of violence? 731 01:35:01,473 --> 01:35:05,059 We would order that all violence be suspended... 732 01:35:05,100 --> 01:35:07,144 while negotiations take place. 733 01:35:08,811 --> 01:35:12,064 When a new constitution has been agreed... 734 01:35:12,981 --> 01:35:16,359 we will give the instruction that the armed struggle... 735 01:35:17,943 --> 01:35:20,154 is to be abandoned. 736 01:36:32,496 --> 01:36:33,539 Oliver. 737 01:36:36,708 --> 01:36:37,791 Thabo. 738 01:36:41,085 --> 01:36:43,962 Would you read this for me, please? 739 01:36:48,924 --> 01:36:51,676 "Although we have been apart all these years..." 740 01:36:52,385 --> 01:36:56,679 It's as if I've been conducting a lifelong conversation... 741 01:36:56,721 --> 01:36:58,431 with you in my head. 742 01:37:01,892 --> 01:37:07,020 All I pray now, is that you recover so, God willing... 743 01:37:07,061 --> 01:37:10,064 we can continue it face to face. 744 01:37:12,983 --> 01:37:15,152 As for my freedom... 745 01:37:15,943 --> 01:37:21,531 it is a secondary matter until you are strong again. 746 01:37:22,364 --> 01:37:27,452 And, until all those imprisoned have won theirs. 747 01:37:27,911 --> 01:37:32,580 I must be the last to gain his liberty. 748 01:37:37,459 --> 01:37:41,128 He wouldn't give a name, much less take no for an answer. 749 01:37:47,549 --> 01:37:48,925 Esterhuyse. 750 01:37:49,008 --> 01:37:51,676 I suppose the weather's the usual crap? 751 01:37:53,053 --> 01:37:55,137 Is that what you called to discuss? 752 01:37:58,765 --> 01:38:00,308 What time is it over there? 753 01:38:01,892 --> 01:38:05,479 - Noon. - Turn on your TV. 2 pm, your time. 754 01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:24,826 Now, as we wait for what's been billed as an historic address. 755 01:38:24,867 --> 01:38:28,411 Let's reflect on the momentous events of the past few months. 756 01:38:29,037 --> 01:38:32,789 The tearing down of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War. 757 01:38:33,206 --> 01:38:36,500 But, South Africa has had many false dawns. 758 01:38:36,542 --> 01:38:40,837 So many speeches which have promised so much, yet delivered so little. 759 01:38:42,004 --> 01:38:45,673 Here now is President De Klerk flanked by his cabinet. 760 01:38:47,216 --> 01:38:50,008 As he makes his way to the podium, all of South Africa... 761 01:38:50,009 --> 01:38:52,553 and indeed the world, holds it's breath. 762 01:38:53,762 --> 01:38:58,723 My Government has taken the decision to immediately and unconditionally... 763 01:38:58,765 --> 01:39:01,435 release Mr Nelson Mandela. 764 01:39:02,811 --> 01:39:05,145 I've also instructed that the prohibition... 765 01:39:05,146 --> 01:39:08,313 of the African National Congress the Pan African Congress... 766 01:39:08,314 --> 01:39:12,568 and the South African Communist Party be immediately lifted. 767 01:39:13,610 --> 01:39:16,154 The time has come to negotiate. 768 01:39:16,946 --> 01:39:19,488 The hopes of millions of South Africans... 769 01:39:19,489 --> 01:39:21,574 will be centred on that process. 770 01:39:22,616 --> 01:39:26,911 We must not falter. We dare not fail. 771 01:39:27,995 --> 01:39:29,121 Thank you. 772 01:39:33,624 --> 01:39:37,084 We go now to Victor Verster Prison, where Mr Mandela... 773 01:39:37,126 --> 01:39:40,503 the man who's been imprisoned for nearly three decades... 774 01:39:40,545 --> 01:39:44,214 72 years old, will be appearing in public... 775 01:39:44,256 --> 01:39:46,841 for the first time, any moment now. 776 01:39:48,301 --> 01:39:50,177 International media perched. 777 01:39:51,511 --> 01:39:53,220 The crowd getting excited. 778 01:39:54,138 --> 01:39:54,972 That's him. 779 01:39:56,016 --> 01:40:00,310 And there is Mister Mandela. Nelson Mandela. A free man. 780 01:40:00,810 --> 01:40:04,480 Taking his first steps into a new South Africa. 781 01:40:08,649 --> 01:40:11,902 Mrs Winnie Mandela next to him waving to the crowds. 782 01:40:12,610 --> 01:40:14,779 And a salute from Mr Nelson Mandela. 783 01:40:14,820 --> 01:40:19,281 His wife greeting the people who have been waiting for so long for this day. 784 01:40:23,284 --> 01:40:26,453 This is the man that the world's been waiting to see. 785 01:40:26,495 --> 01:40:29,997 His first public appearance in 27 years. 786 01:40:30,998 --> 01:40:34,958 The day for which he too, has waited so long. 787 01:41:00,602 --> 01:41:02,270 We owe you so much more. 788 01:41:03,562 --> 01:41:06,649 It takes a big man to make himself invisible. 789 01:41:09,192 --> 01:41:10,025 Thank you. 790 01:41:10,692 --> 01:41:13,945 Thank you. Michael. Thank you. 791 01:41:20,533 --> 01:41:21,492 Stay safe. 792 01:41:24,327 --> 01:41:25,412 And you... 793 01:41:27,579 --> 01:41:29,164 comrade.64833

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