All language subtitles for Terrors.Advocate.2007.FRENCH.1080p.WEBRip.x264.AAC-[YTS.MX]

Downloaded from
YTS.MX

Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

In this film, the director creates a
personal image of Jacques Vergès, which

of course is not identical to the views
of the people who have their say in it.

Jacques Vergès wrote...

that he knew me for 20 or 30 years...

Brother No. 1 of
the Khmer Rouge

as someone polite, discreet...

and smiling.

House of Khieu Samphan

Brother No. 4 of
the Khmer Rouge

Some say the genocide
was wholly intentional.

I say it wasn't.

There were deaths and famine,
but it was unintentional.

Lawyer

There was reprehensible
repression and torture.

But not on millions of people.

About the number of deaths:
The mass graves found don't tally

with the number of alleged victims.

Torture and crimes were committed,
but it was lumped together.

The U.S. Bombardments
weren't considered,

or the famine from the U.S. Embargo
and blockade.

It became a package, and it was
all blamed on the Khmers Rouges.

JAQUES VERGES
TERROR ADVOCATE

Paul and Jacques Vergès
report to the Front at 17.

Fighting in a war seemed

risky to me,
but an adventure worth having.

And under De Gaulle,
a general sentenced to death.

It felt like total happiness.

To me, France isn't the settlers,

it's Montaigne, it's Diderot,

the French Revolution.

For France to disappear
was intolerable to me.

That's why I enlisted.

The Liberation

I could've stepped on a mine
and been castrated.

It was one of my big fears.

Or be disfigured,
another of my frivolous fears.

It didn't happen.

I'd have lost my nose,
but become a hero.

My opinions
would have been valued,

even though I'd have been bitter.

This is my only war wound:

Eating oysters in Tremblade,

before disembarking at Oléron.

I was so greedy

that my British Army knife
snapped back on my finger.

Call it luck, or grace!

While in France
they rejoiced over the victory,

Former Algerian President

here in Algeria on May 8, 1945,

it was more like a day of mourning.

The Sétif massacres
were on Armistice Day,

that's what's so appalling.

The day Germany surrendered,

Frenchmen slaughtered Algerians.

Numbers always vary
in cases like that.

The minimum number is 10,000.

The United States consulate
estimated it at 45,000.

May 8, 1945, was the day
of the Allies' victory celebration,

and we felt we'd been
part of that war.

We called
for a peaceful demonstration,

with our slogans, and our flag.

To carry a flag

was a crime, an insult to France

for the French settlers.

The orders were: If you see
the Algerian flag, shoot at them.

So the massacre took place.

The only surviving film
of the Demonstration

The place where I was born
and grew up, Kherrata,

is known to all Algerians

for the repressive terror
that took place there.

May 8, 1945 stands
for Sétif, Guelma

and Kherrata. I'm from Kherrata.

This massacre took place in 1945,

and in 1954 the revolution broke out.

The two events are connected.

It was General Duval who said:

"It got us peace for ten years."

In a lawsuit in France,

one of my clients, a friend, said:

"I was ten years old,

"my parents drove me
to a mass grave

"and said: Never forget that!"

So those massacres heralded
the Algerian revolution.

I was a colonel,

in charge of military operations
in the autonomous zone

...of greater Algiers
and became the political-military boss

of the autonomous zone
which is called "autonomous",

because it depended on no one,
on no willaya.

Extremist French settlers
made a bomb...

a powerful one...

it killed dozens.

10th August 1956
75 Dead

I went there at the time

and I helped pull out
bodies from the rubble...

The local people wanted to rush
into the European quarter,

kill them, start a civil war.

We stopped them...

and said:
"Keep cool, don't do anything.

"We, the FLN army will avenge you."

For the Milk-Bar.

Stop!

Go on...

Excuse me...

May I pass, sir?

"The Battle of Algiers"
G. Pontecorvo

We needed
good-looking girls and boys

to infiltrate
that world and plant bombs.

That's how...

we started recruiting.
First, Djamila Bouhired

who lived in the casbah.

I recruited her

saying: "Do you agree to do it...

"to plant bombs?"

She agreed absolutely.

Then she started to recruit,
and so did I.

That's how I assembled

a team of girls,

and only I decided

where bombs would be placed.

7th January 1957
5,000 French paratroopers land in Algiers

It was early in the morning.
I said we're changing hideouts.

We disguised ourselves as women...
There was Ali La Pointe,

the whole group...

Zohra Drif, was one of us.

As we crossed the casbah
to reach our new hideout,

suddenly there were patrols.

"Stop!"

I was 15 meters ahead of the rest,

I turned around
with my submachine-gun

and I fired...

Djamila Bouhired was coming,

she was the last,
carrying the documents...

She was hit, and they captured her.

The moment she was arrested,
we needed a lawyer.

I sent Zohra Drif,

who knew Djamila well,
we were living together,

to find a lawyer.

I took law in Paris after literature
and Far-Eastern languages.

I was admitted to the bar in 1955.

I was 30, so I wasn't a kid

but also not very old.

I get to Algiers,

and at the time I stayed

at the Hotel Aleti
where Paris lawyers stayed,

when an emissary
from the Algiers FLN,

of the autonomous zone

came to see me:

It was Zohra Drif.

I ask for the lawyer from Paris.

I'm told: "Wait, we'll call him."

Vice-president of
the Algerian Senate

Then I see Attorney Vergès.

Big surprise.

First, Vergès, is a very French name,

and I see someone
who's more like us,

by his complexion, his eyes...

I was wearing a hijab

because I was a wanted person,

so all you could see was my eyes.

Right away I knew...

there was a feeling of mutual trust...

I let her know that I...

who had a Vietnamese mother,

a father from Réunion Island,

I sympathized
with the Algerian struggle,

and didn't condemn their violence.

I was obsessed by this case

as I'd been told
she was in a hospital,

was tortured on her hospital bed.

Then was handed over
to a paratroop regiment.

I went every day to the Law Courts
to get news.

Every day I saw the DA.

One morning, I asked him:
"Any news of my client?"

He said:
"She's being interrogated now."

I said: "By which prosecutor?"

He gave me the name
and I sped off.

The prosecutor, a bully,
asked me why I was there,

I said Djamila's parents
hired me to defend her.

I showed my letter of empowerment.

I gave Djamila
my most meaningful look,

so she'd realize
I knew her parents and friends.

The DA tried to make her talk.

I signaled to her
she needn't answer.

She refused to answer him.

Muslim terrorists,
Djamila Bouhired and Djamila Bouazza

to be tried by a military court.

We're in front of what was once
the military courthouse,

the permanent military tribunal.

This tiny street

was filled
during the trials by a crowd,

a mixed crowd of fascist thugs
and paratroopers,

who were in this street
and in the courtroom.

We pleaded,
with these people behind us,

who threatened and growled,

and all around

were reporters who did this
for our clients.

The trial took place
in this lynch mob mood,

to the point that one day

when the spectators interrupted me,

I asked Judge Rouanar:

"Your Honor, am I in a court of law

"or a murder plot?"

We were dealing with idiots.

They had a very limited
view of the world:

I was just a mercenary and a traitor.

My clients and friends
were assassins or apes,

as they called them.

So they couldn't understand us.

But we could understand them,

and how their tiny brains worked.

So it was easy for me,

when I felt the mood
was getting too calm,

to turn around arrogantly,

then I'd hear these growls
in the courtroom,

and I'd ask the Judge:
"Your Honor,

"is this a normal trial
or a murder plot?"

Or when people shouted
"the Chinaman", to say:

"Your Honor,
must I remind them that

"when their ancestors ate a coms
in the forest,

"mine were building palaces."

The problem
wasn't to play for sympathy,

as left wing lawyers advised us to do,

from the murderous fools
who judged us,

but to taunt them,
to provoke incidents

that would reach Paris,
London, Brussels or Cairo.

What's nice about
the Djamila Bouhired affair,

is that Vergès, who told
French lawyers to go to hell,

who was outspoken,
and insulted judges,

Journalist and Writer

suddenly...

meeting Djamila Bouhired,
a prisoner who'd just been tortured,

he broke down sobbing

and was deeply upset.

I don't know if he fell in love
with Djamila Bouhired herself,

he fell in love with a young woman
who shattered him

because she'd just been tortured
by French officers,

and she was totally dignified.

Djamila now appeared
as the embodiment of Algeria.

Indeed, at the time of the trial,

it was obvious

that now the revolution
was present in the courtroom

and had Djamila's face,

and the revolution had hers.

For us,
Djamila was a great militant.

She symbolized the struggle

for national liberation in Algiers,
and all Algeria,

and especially for women.

Formerly sentenced to death

She was an example
to all the women

who desperately wanted
to militate and plant bombs,

and take part in armed actions

and be present.

At the time we noticed something:

After her arrest,

in many homes
where girls were born,

they were given the name "Djamila".

She favored
the most offensive defense,

she didn't want to yield.

She had said in court:
"You know nothing about me,

"but you must know
that if I'm ordered to place a bomb,

"I'll do it."

Which is worse for them than saying:

"I placed a bomb and I'm sorry."

So he was defending soldiers.

Who, from his point of view,

were all committed to that war.

He wasn't trying to get
a 6-months shorter sentence

from a judge,
as is done today in France,

by appealing for mercy
and all that...

You can see why he was furious

at lawyers who came
from Paris and tried that tactic.

That's when was born
the idea of using a "rupture defense".

So that when the judge says:
"You're French",

the prisoner says: "I'm Algerian."

The judge says:
"You're in a criminal conspiracy."

The prisoner says:
"I'm in the resistance."

The judge says:
"You committed murder",

he says: "I executed a traitor."

From then on,
no dialogue is possible.

5 death sentences
in trial of "two Djamilas"

Violent incidents:
Vergès put on notice.

Djamila Bouhired and 5 others
were sentenced to death.

When Djamila heard
the death sentence, she laughed.

What the Judge said
is worthy of an anthology:

What made Djamila
Bouhired laugh?

"Don't laugh, Miss, it's serious."

I found out
from a local right wing lawyer

that the prisoners
were going to be executed.

A lawyer said to me:

"Do you care
about your client's life?"

I answered: "More than my own."

"Then don't waste another minute.

"Mr Lacoste promised us her head."

So I told my colleagues:

The only way now
to save the prisoners,

is to activate French

and international public opinion.

Djamila is Algeria's Joan of Arc

Film made of her life

Young socialist goes on hunger strike

Jordan wants her pardoned

Nehru opposes Algeria executions

For Djamila

76 British MPs for her pardon

Ho Chi Minh asks for her pardon

French President urged to spare her

Letters, telegrams
from all over plead for her

Pardon for Djamila!

Germans ask for her pardon

Death row was in this block.

This was death row?

Formerly sentenced to death

It was quite plush...

Look at this faucet,
discreetly hidden.

Those were the toilets.

We did our...

We washed there and did our...

You realize...

- Night and day...
- We were shackled.

Hand and foot...

Our feet were shackled...

Those sentenced to death
aren't another species,

they're militants who raised
themselves to higher spheres,

who transcended the problems

and the delicate situations

that each of them faced.

They were a model
for other inmates

who emulated

their behavior,
and based their attitude

on those sentenced to death.

When there was a struggle
against the Department of Prisons,

when those sentenced to death
sided with the other inmates,

it always worked.

A strike by inmates on death row
isn't like an ordinary inmate strike.

There was a great deal of anxiety,

and also fear,

but we accepted it,

because we knew
why we were there.

We were convinced we'd done right.

Someone sentenced to death

knows he has 45 days before him

to be pardoned or not

by the French President.

And once someone on death row

hasn't been pardoned,
he awaits death every day.

We even prepared the statement

we'd make in front of the guillotine.

"Long live free Algeria, Inch'Allah!"

We couldn't sleep at night.

There were 5 of us:

Djamila Bouhired,
Bouazza, Guerroudj and Netter.

In two cells. So we couldn't sleep.

In the morning,
we heard the keys in the doors,

we heard the guillotine being set up

and wondered: "Will it be us today?"

God is great!

We heard them
climbing the guillotine steps.

They said "Allah Akbar"

and we answered "Allah Akbar"

and sang a patriotic song,

and did our traditional wails,

and from the casbah
the women answered.

We climbed
on each other's shoulders

knowing that the brothers
who'd be executed

were behind that wall.

Then we sang patriotic songs,

did our traditional wails...

And the whole city

woke up at 4 AM
out of solidarity for one of them.

The day following an execution

was a day of fasting.
All the inmates fasted.

No coffee in the morning,

no soup at noon,
no soup in the evening.

It was total silence,
everyone prayed,

and the people were...

they were in a state

of extraordinary spirituality.

I've had clients, friends,
who were sentenced to death.

Several dozen.

- None was executed.
- I wanted to ask you...

I no longer slept.

If any of them had been killed,
I'd have shot...

The writer Georges Arnaud
said to me:

"What if she's executed?"

I said: "I'll shoot someone."

I can get an appointment
with Mr Lacoste or General Massu,

and I'll shoot him.

Then I'll be at peace with myself.

Luckily, Almighty God didn't want it.

Djamila Bouhired
and Jacqueline Guerroudj pardoned

Their sentences commuted
to life at hard labor

I'd lived in a colonized country,

son of a Réunion Island father

and a Vietnamese mother.

My childhood memories
are of a country

where colored people
had to step aside

to let the Europeans go by.

It was a sight,

an unacceptable feeling

to young kids like us.

I think he was born at war,

born angry,

born colonized.

Once you've been colonized,

the only attitude
for a man or a woman,

is to be against things.

You can't go along with them,
make compromises.

So you're against things.

I think he became a lawyer
by accident.

It was the only place
where he had a venue.

If you took up arms,
you'd just be another soldier.

Being an angry lawyer,
in a colonized country,

you have the best venue there is.

Better than journalism,
or anything else.

All eyes are focused on
a duel between two people,

one a judge, the other a "terrorist",

in quotation marks,

and the trial
can become memorable,

as no one can stop you
from talking.

Jacques Vergès calls
for peace in Indochina.

After World War II, colonial
student associations regrouped,

and new ones were formed.

Like that of the Khmer students,

headed by a certain Saloth Sar

who later became Comrade Pol Pot,

those groups were formed then.

Like the Union of Algerian
Muslim Students, the UGEMA.

These groups, like the Réunion
Students Group which I headed,

had liaison committees,

our paper was called
"Anti colonialist Students",

and we constantly organized
demonstrations

in the Latin Quarter.

When I turned 29,

it was time to quit
being a perennial student:

I'd done 2 years of Law,
I'd do a 3rd year,

pass my exams, and be lawyer.

It's not an odious profession,

that's all one can say.

On my first case
as a public defender,

as I sat facing
my small-time hoodlum client,

I said to myself: "That guy is me."

"I could've done what he did,

"if I'd been in his shoes."

Then I knew it was my calling.

Lawyers were remarkable
go-betweens.

We had no telephones
to communicate

from one jail to another.

How did everyone, overnight,
go on strike in every French prison?

Sentate Member

Lawyers were very important links.

That's how I met Jacques Vergès

and kept on seeing him.

In jail he was my lawyer,
he came to see me.

Here's a story...

We were 1,200 inmates
in Fresnes prison,

200 could read and write,
1,000 couldn't.

After the hunger strikes,
we got the right

to teach courses.

A year later,
all 1,200 could read and write,

and in 2 languages,
Arabic and French.

We even gave music courses.

We had LPs...

That's revolutionary, too.

Because a revolution isn't a beast

that devours its best children,
it also saves them.

Bomb blast at Corniche casino
7 dead on dance floor

I cried one day

after the bomb blast at La Corniche,

because I'd sworn

to stop planting bombs.

Enough of that!

Why?
Because they mutilate people.

The deaths I didn't mind,

we all have to die.

But people losing
their arms and legs,

that makes me sick.

So I said, no more bombs.

Enough of that!

And I fell back into it...

Once they start executing,

I go back to doing it.

The real question to me is,

who does one do it for?

The difference between
the FLN and some groups in France,

that carried out bomb attacks,

like some local groups,

is that Algerians
were for their terrorists.

The French weren't for theirs.

Algerian public opinion
was pro-terrorist.

Once the battle of Algiers started,

all the Algerian lawyers
were arrested.

Which meant we had a huge task.

The P.M., Michel Debré, said:

"These lawyers harm us more
than a whole division."

It's true: Morally, the use of torture
was a terrifying defeat.

French soldiers aren't torturers!

In every trial,
we'd say torture was used,

humanists reproached us for that.

Every case involved torture.

In every case that came up,

the Algerian people
brought up the use of torture.

Hence the murder of one of us,
Ould Aoudia.

Parisian Lawer Ould Aoudia murdered

We were told to kill them,
starting with Attorney Aoudia.

French Secret Service

You say you were told.

Who told you?

Mr Debré, the Prime Minister.

Former Prime Minister

The order was given to shoot
the four people defending the group,

the four lawyers:

Ben Abdallah, Oussedik,

Attorney, Died 2005

Ould Aoudia and me.

We got a letter,
anonymous of course,

that said: "You too",

and below there was a number.

It was very clear.

Vergès was N° 2,
so he took it seriously.

He'd sleep at my home,
to keep a low profile.

I had a lot of novelty items:

He loved to take my water-pistol,

we'd go out in my car,
I drove, he sat beside me,

and as soon as he spotted someone
at a red light,

he'd fire a jet of water
and we laughed like kids.

He had such joie de vivre...

Probably, to relax
from the tension of the trials,

because he really took risks
in the trials.

He insulted the judges,
refused to rise for them,

sang the Kassamen,
the Algerian anthem

with the patriots who were on trial,

he waved FLN flags
in the middle of his pleading,

I mean it was really...

He could have been arrested
at once and jailed.

Algeria becomes independent

Once Algeria became independent,

I founded a newspaper
with Djamila and Zohra

called "African Revolution".

He put out a call
to his old pals in Paris,

so I and others went over there,
I did the layout.

But I didn't have the freedom
I had at L'Express,

Algeria became a drag,
more restrictive than France.

I couldn't talk

about girls, or booze...

Ben Bella who ran things there
was a bit shocked:

"Don't print that drawing"

or "You'll shock
real Algerian militants".

I said: "I've had it" and I quit.

"African Revolution"
is what took me to China.

Chinese Spring",
by D. Bouhired & J. Vergès

I realized it was a big moment,
I'd make important life-long contacts.

You sense that the Chinese

don't agree with the Russians
about "peaceful co-existence."

They're more committed
to the struggle in colonial countries.

On that point, I side with them.

Very soon I got to meet
Chairman Mao.

I filled him in about the activities

of pro-Chinese groups in Africa.

He listened very attentively,

maybe out of courtesy.

As we were leaving, he asked me,

indicating Djamila:
"Will you two get married?"

I was very surprised by the question,

and said: "We're thinking of it."

If anything
was going on between us,

we tactfully hid it

until she was freed.

In Barberousse,
we met in the visiting room.

In the women's wing
of Maison Carrée prison,

in summer,

sometimes we met our clients
in the yard.

Then the prisoners
were transferred to France,

first to Pau prison,

then to Rennes.

I always went to visit her,

except that...

in early 1961,

I was suspended for a year.

They tried to get rid of us
by various means,

so I used this 1-year ban
to go to Morocco,

where I counseled the government
on African affairs.

And when Djamila was freed,
she and other prisoners

went back to Algeria via Morocco.

That's where you got married?

No.

Jacques is sentimental,
much more than I am.

He's desperately sentimental.

Friend of Jacques Vergès

I promise you that,
I've seen him in certain situations...

Jacques, is really sentimental.

I'd gone to visit Djamila,

her mother didn't approve
of her daughter marrying a non-Muslim.

I always said, Jacques:
"You mustn't convert,

"You'll have to be circumcised,
you're nuts,

"and you'll have to give up pork!"

I reminded him of all the pork
we ate, and the wines,

he adored vintage Bordeaux,

now suddenly he only drank water,

he set his alarm at 5.30 AM.

And ate dates before breakfast.

We had rows, amicable ones.

I said: "You've really
gone down in my book!"

Some say, but I don't think it's true,

that Ben Bella
wanted to marry Djamila,

not because of her beauty...
Have you met her?

Yes.

- Is she still as pretty?
- Magnificent.

She's a superb woman.

But she was also a national heroine,

and Ben Bella... was ambitious.

I don't think Vergès
liked Ben Bella's Algeria.

To him,
it lacked a sense of direction.

He wanted to steer it closer
to the Chinese model.

The ideas in "African Revolution"
didn't agree

with those of President Ben Bella
at the time,

and I was soon
dismissed from my job.

Then, I opened my law office.

It soon had a political slant
when Bouteflika said to me:

"Our Palestinian friends
want a lawyer from here

"to go defend a Palestinian

"in the occupied territories,

"in Israel.

"I thought of you
because you can travel."

So I went to Israel then

in 1965,

just after my marriage.

A Palestinian

is yesterday's Algerian.

To us Israel

is basically a colonial phenomenon.

I flew to Israel,
and was met at the airport

by the Police Chief who said:

"You're persona non grata.

"You'll spend the night here
and fly out tomorrow."

They put me in a small room,

it was on the first floor,

suddenly the window opened

and a reporter said:
"Can we have a statement?"

I'm a perfectionist,
I hate improvisation,

I had a written statement,
rolled in a ball.

I threw it to him,
he caught it and left.

The next morning, I flew to Zürich.

The airline stewardesses
were very kind,

because the "Jerusalem Post"

told of my misadventures.

It had published

a photocopy of my declaration:

"You have no right to judge me.
You're occupiers. I'm a patriot."

And I knew

that my client would read

that newspaper
that the guards also read,

and would know
what position to take.

He was sentenced,
I think, to 15 years.

I don't know where he is now.

Then, I was appointed

to defend the Palestinians
arrested in Athens,

for attacking an El Al plane.

This is the first attack.

First, my friend shot
and I put the bombs in the turbines.

And after, we changed, uh, I took the gun...

El Al jet machine-gunned

But the problem we find before shooting...

Some 40 Greek children

got into the airplane.

So that's why
we didn't destroy it completely.

We only killed one Major-General.

The PFLP claims responsibility
for the attack on the Israeli plane

When they captured
us and put us in jail

we needed a lawyer.

Jacques Vergès, he was in Algeria...

He fought for benefit of Djamila

and Djamila in our mind is something

mysterious and we tried to be like her.

I'd gone to Athens,
with Bar President Bentoumi,

we'd been hired to defend them.

We met them at the jail,

we met the magistrates,

but we didn't get to plead,

it was settled... politically.

Somebody hijacked an airplane and...

They made a deal
and we were released after 13 days.

Zurich February 1969

Then we went to Zürich.

Zürich was similar:

An El Al plane
attacked by Palestinians.

This time, we got to plead.

It was the famous trial
of Winterthur

where we adopted Jacques Vergès'
strategy of "rupture defense":

We refused to be part of the trial.

Human Rights League

I think that's what saved him,

he felt grateful
to the Algerian government

for sending him
to defend Palestinians,

and he published a book,

"For The Fedayeens" at that time.

But it was the only thing

that stimulated him intellectually.

He'd returned to Algeria,
married Djamila Bouhired,

and instead of being
a major politico, a thinker,

he'd become
a small-time divorce lawyer:

That's all Algeria gave him.

It had let him be
the husband of Djamila Bouhired.

She wasn't Jacques Vergès' wife,

he was the husband of
Djamila Bouhired,

who's as famous there,
as Jean Moulin here.

He'd become a Muslim

and I think he was bored.

Those were terrible years for him.

He left to be done with it.

My last client...

was the son of a fisherman

from Dellys, a small Algerian port.

Or really his father:
The son had been run over by a car,

and I sued the insurance company.

Everybody was intrigued
by Jacques' disappearance.

His ex-wife,
who I knew well, Karine,

had no news either.

FLN lawyer missing for 3 months

He was last seen
on February 24, 1970,

at an anti-colonial rally in Paris.

He made a speech

and vanished.

After 3 months,

Djamila Bouhired and his friends,
were sure he was dead.

They put an ad in the papers,

asking if anyone had seen him.

7 years married, 2 children

They were very worried.

A new Ben Barka affair?

When you...

go underground,

of course you have to cut all ties.

Especially with people
to whom you're most attached.

When I went on "long vacation",

a pipe is very recognizable.

To pass unnoticed,

I threw my pipe away.

I removed the labels
from all my clothes.

I destroyed lots of documents,
photos, etc.

I heard what everyone said,
that he was with Pol Pot.

77% of people who knew
Jacques Vergès believed

that he spent his
"time off" in Cambodia

So we made a series of trips

to the Cambodian provinces, which

bordered Thailand.

Most of the surviving Khmer
Rouge live in these areas.

Legendary Private Detective
from San Francisco

And exercise political control.

And the first person we talked to there

was Teph Kunow.

He spent most of the
last 6 years of Pol Pot's life

almost constantly with Pol Pot.

And during that time they
discussed almost everything.

He said that together

The Brilliant Bastard

They had read "Le Salaud".

In that book
are two passages I remember.

It says...

that Jacques Vergès
could have been in Cambodia.

I remember that Pol Pot
wrote in the margin: "No".

Most people say he was in Cambodia

If Jacques Vergès
had entered Cambodia,

Pol Pot would have known.

He couldn't have not known it.

The next and in my view
the most definitive person

we talked to was Nuon Chea.

He was at the very least,
Pol Pot's partner.

They seemed to have
had a symbiotic relationship.

And who had almost been interchangeable.

Athough Pol Pot was
the more public face.

He lives in a peasant's shack.

As do many of these people.

Probably about 6 ft from the Thai border.

He's 83.

They say there are some things
only you know.

Brother No. 2

It's true, only I know.

After Pol Pot, only I know.
What you heard is true.

He was General-Secretary,
I was Under-Secretary.

But some things only I knew.

Pol Pot said: "We rule together,
but each has his area."

He said that he and pol
Pot made every decision

together, in a room, just the two of them.

That no-one else had decision making
power or autority.

That they shared everything.

That it was impossible that Pol Pot
would not have spoken to him about Vergès.

And that he could say with
100% certainty that Vergès

Was not in the Khmer Rouge, was
not in Cambodia in the missing year.

When he vanished from 1970-1978,
he wasn't being a lawyer.

He did something
that interested him,

and was a cure

for what he could no longer stand.

He rethought the world,

but he did his revolution all alone.

His strength is to have never turned
his struggle into something official.

I was drawn
to what seemed important to me.

It was in May 1973,

and a very tense period.

Leader of the Kataeb Party, Lebanon

We were several politicians,

of different tendencies.
I remember clearly

that the ambassador
of Kuwait was there,

and the head of the National Group,
Raymond Eddé.

We all were meeting

at Arafat's HQ.

Suddenly, there was a battle,
a gunfight

between the Lebanese army
and the Palestinian groups.

So we were surrounded
inside Arafat's HQ.

And we stayed there

from 5 PM

till 2 AM or 3 AM,

almost for 7 to 8 hours.

I was sitting

in Arafat's office.

He was calling people,
giving military orders

and also talking to the Arab leaders,

trying to stop what was going on.

When he calmed down,

Head of the 1972 attack in Munich.
Killed in 1979 by Mossad agents.

his security chief Abou Hassan...

Arafat suddenly looked at him
and asked:

"Who is this Vergès? What is he?"

Abou Hassan Salameh
answered literally:

"He's an important lawyer
who defends the Palestinian cause."

Arafat smiled and said:
"Keep working with him."

Vergès has the extra merit

of being committed,
and to other struggles.

My codename was "Pascal".

- And Vergès?
- "Mansour".

Underground from 1966-1980

Remember crossing a lake with him?

I crossed lakes several times.

- With him?
- I can't talk about that incident...

"I first crossed the lake with Bachir,
we were wanted."

I was in a lot of countries

but what mattered to me
was the Arab world:

Egypt,

Iraq,

Syria, Lebanon.

During this period of exile,
I had other activities,

always along the same lines,

to do with liberation movements,
the emancipation of peoples.

Including
the Palestinian movement,

especially that.

We are againt Zionism

and we are against the
Israeli State as it is now.

Why? Because it is
the throat of Zionism.

It is a racist state.

And it is a state based on conquer, and
based on aggression.

Palestine in the 1970s

There were several radical
Palestinian movements,

and he may have been there
at that time.

In that era,

when many believed
in the internationalist myth

that what would happen in Palestine

was the spark that would set fire
to the whole Middle East.

2 people headed this organization,

Georges Habbache
and Dr Waddi Haddad.

They're both physicians...

and share similar characteristics,

Historian

and both of them are from
the Christian-Palestinian bourgeoisie

and are Marxists.

Haddad and Habbache
are Internationalists.

Haddad had a brilliant idea.

This was in the late 1960s,
early 1970s.

In Europe and all over the world,
even Japan,

there were student demonstrations
and unrest.

Many new
revolutionary organizations

were born of this unrest,

or saw their ranks swell enormously,

and many of them
were hungry for action.

Waddi Haddad
and the Palestinians realized

that if they could enlist terrorists
who weren't Palestinians,

it would multiply

their capacity for action.

Founding Father of
International Terrorism

He was the boss,
without him, no one got through.

No-one could get passed him, for example...

It was very easy to enter...

Pol Pot's City,

Somalia, or Mogadishu,

to get into Yemen, or Aden,

at the time there were 2 Yemens,

and I mean South Yemen.

It was easy to get into Iraq,
or Baghdad,

all you needed to get in
was a password.

But to get out you needed
Waddi Haddad's OK.

Perpetrated 1968 attack
on El-al Maschine in athens

You train evil from other countries here don't you?

- Yeah.
- Who have you trained?

You see, according to our strategy

all the liberation movements in all of
the world who fought against imperialism

they are from our allies.

From Iran, from Germany and Japan.

Do you feel like a terrorist?

No we are freedom fighters.

Vergès could
or should have been a terrorist.

At one point
he was very pro-Palestinian,

and his anger against the Jews

could have made a terrorist of him.

But he couldn't be the kind of fighter

who sleeps in cellars
and eats tinned food.

He's too fond of the good life.

He likes fine cuisine,

and reading books,
he's an egghead.

I don't see him as a karate man.

But pressing a button
to blow things up,

if that's all it takes,
would be no problem to him.

I wasn't on the moon.

I was among people.

Who are as discreet as I am.

Maybe for serious reasons.

That's why I can't talk about them.

It's all very simple.

I met Vergès
at François Genoud's.

Swiss Nazi

I met a lot

of François Genoud's friends:
Arabs, Africans,

Germans, who came to his home.

It was always on Thursdays,

from 3 PM to 7 PM,

we drank tea or coffee
at his home, and talked.

François Genoud is a Swiss Nazi,

not a neo-Nazi:
He was pro-Nazi in the Nazi era,

an early fan
of National Socialist ideology.

He also managed

the book-royalties of Nazi leaders.

Genoud also financed
the FLN and Palestinian groups

via financial deals

that went through a bank he set up

in Switzerland.

There were close relationships
between Nazism

and some revolutionary
or independentist groups

in the Middle East.

Like Husseini...

Genoud's Mentor in 1936

Grand Mufti of Jerusalem,

who wanted a Holy War
against the British,

and was financed by the Germans

to make trouble
in the British colonies.

Palestine was then
under British mandate.

The fact is,
that's how Genoud got going,

in an explosive Middle East.

So he was influenced by all that...

But regarding François Genoud,

many people try to link him
to Vergès and to me...

Because of our relationship...

we agreed on certain things...

To me,
Genoud was always a mystery.

As to the notorious François Genoud,

they met during the Algerian war,

at the start of independence,

when both were close to Ben Bella.

They met for the first time

over the case of the Palestinians
in Zurich,

who had hijacked an El Al plane.

Genoud was everywhere and nowhere.

He was in contact with the families

of the men imprisoned
in Switzerland,

in contact with Vergès,
with me, with Bentoumi.

In contact
with the Palestinian leaders.

Everyone knows
he had a privileged relationship

with the top Palestinian leader.

François was a worthy man

who took part in the discussions

and I'm sure gave

A strategic dimension

on an operational level
to Waddi Haddad.

Waddi Haddad's right
hand man in recruiting Carlos

Which is why
he was given the title of Sheik.

Sheik means "chief" or "elder".

François Genoud and Waddi Haddad

had a very close
and warm relationship.

We liked him a lot.

Survived a Mossad parcel bomb in 1972

I know that they were close,

Vergès, Boumaza and Genoud.

Lawyer and associate
of FNL-Lawyer Oussedik

All during the struggle,
they were pro-Palestinian,

and active in Palestinian affairs,

but that's all I can tell you.

With Waddi Haddad?

Yes...

He was the brains, the thinker.

Everybody admired
and respected him.

Only existing photos
of Waddi Haddad

We tried, for example,

to unite the Palestinian movement.

To tell them of the mistakes we made,

Messali Hadj and the FLN
slaughtered each other,

how they'll try to divide you,
make Palestinians fight each other.

We even gave lectures...

If you read the newspapers...

One of my collaborators...

was Mohammed Boudia,

killed by the Israeli secret service
in Paris,

blown up by a bomb.

Killed on June 28, 1973 in Paris,
involved in the 1972 attack in Munich

He was part of our group

the RUR, that fostered
revolutionary solidarity.

I'd lost sight of Boudia:

Now he was
a lump of flesh and bones.

One evening, I was in Paris,
I went for a walk.

I remember it very clearly,

it was on Rue Tronchet,
behind the Madeleine.

There's a café
on a corner of the square.

Walking by,

I saw Boudia,
who had disappeared,

at a table.

I came in to shake his hand,

and I said: "You're here?"
He said: "You, too!"

We never discussed future actions...

In those days, everyone was sure
Vergès had disappeared for 8 years.

But I ran into Jiri Pelikan

who'd known him
at the International Student Union,

and who was head
of Prague TV in 1968.

He said, and it came as a shock:

"During those 8 years,
I saw Jacques in Paris."

I said: "It's impossible.
He's disappeared."

He said: "He hasn't."

And I see Jacques cross the street.
Areal shock!

I went up to him,

took him by the shoulder
and said: "Jacques?"

Vergès answered:

"Hush! I'm not here.
Don't say I'm in Paris, I'm incognito."

One day a guy called Pelikan,

who was a good friend of his,
came into the restaurant

where I was dining
with Karine, and says:

"I just saw Vergès,
he hasn't changed."

Karine said: "What's this?"

He'd already been gone 3 years.

"I just saw him!"

I said: "It can't be, you're crazy!"

I'm in Paris, in a little hotel,

under an assumed name.

It's a Monday,

all the stores are closed,
I go to a caterer,

to buy country bread...

and cheese...

When I leave, I see standing in line,

a colleague's widow,

who stares at me.

I say to myself:

"She'll tell everyone
she saw me in Paris.

"How can I stop her?"

Sometimes the brain works
like a computer.

I don't know how I got the idea,
but I said to her:

"Hi, Fatso!

"How's tricks?"

She went: "Ohhhh!"

And I walked off.

I figured she'd tell that story,

all she'd get right is:
"Hi, Fatso! How's tricks?"

No one'll believe her.

They'll say: "Since her husband died,
she's flipped."

What interested me a lot

was meeting another lawyer,
Attorney Cain,

who was very close
to Jacques Vergès,

and who told me

that several times during those years,

Vergès visited him in Paris,

still incognito,

and slept there.

So for Cain,
his disappearance was a farce,

he knew
that Vergès was somewhere,

that he worked, hadn't disappeared,
and wasn't in jail.

So what Cain told me,
and he showed me the tickets,

was that Jacques Vergès had,

in the last years
of his "disappearance",

1977 and 1978,

made many trips on airlines
to the Far East.

One company claimed
he owed a fortune.

The last time

that Vergès came back
to France to stay,

he had a suitcase
full of small banknotes,

and said to Cain:
"Pay the airline with that."

Seems he had more money
than he owed the airline.

Cain asked him who it came from,
maybe he was kidding,

he answered:
"From Moise Tshombé."

He also repaid Jérôme Lindon
at the Editions de Minuit

with a suitcase full of money and said:
"It came from Tshombé."

Congolese politician
nicknamed "The Cash Register"

Yet Moise Tshombé is the presumed
assassin of Patrice Lumumba,

of whom Jacques Vergès
had a photo at home.

So defending Tshombé for him,

though it tarnished his ideals a bit,

was a way to make money.

I soon knew, after my little inquiry,

among those he saw at the time,

that he got money
from Tshombé's family

to get him out of jail.

He also got a loan
from the National Bank of Algiers,

of a hundred million francs
at the time.

The deal with Tshombé's family was,

according to Vergès,

"If I get your father out of jail,

"you repay this loan.

"If I don't, then I have to repay it."

But Moise Tshombé
died in jail in 1969.

He didn't get him out of jail.

So Vergès will have to repay it.

He has to repay that sum.

The amount equals 720,000 euro today

So the Tshombé family
were after him,

because they guaranteed the loan
at the BNA,

which still hadn't been repaid
in 1995.

I went to Algiers,

and met one of the heads
of legal dept. At the BNA:

Jacques Vergès
still owed them money.

He didn't leave for a cause,
he left for personal reasons.

I don't know why, and don't want to.
And if I did...

- Not for political reasons?
- No.

I'm sure of that.

I think Vergès was a secret agent.

Some said he worked
for East Germany.

Maybe he was also
an agent for the French.

Which is why he had no problem
getting back to France.

If Vergès was dead, we could talk.

Someone who knew, could talk.

SDECE, Home Service

Later they may tell historians:
"Yes, he worked for us."

Whereas now...

this person might fear

that Vergès would sue.

If that was the case...

I got back thin, with a tanned
and hardened complexion.

With a more distant perspective
on things.

Once he got back,

it was like he'd lost faith
in political models.

He expected nothing from politics.

So he settled in France,
became a lawyer,

and a multi-purpose lawyer,
as has been said.

So he was very happy to be in Paris.

As if a burden has
dropped off his back.

And he could pursue his life the way he wants.

Friend and Assistant

That's what I thought.

But Jacques is a good cook.

So he was cooking and he survived.

As I told you, he didn't even
have money to buy me a coffee.

When Jacques saw me:

"Hi, Bob! How are things?
Great to see you!",

as if we'd last met a week ago.

I invited him for the weekend:

I lived 25 miles from Paris then,
in a nice country house.

He came,
and my mother liked him a lot.

She knew him well,
as he'd lived at my home.

My mother said to him:
"Jacques, really!"

She spoke out,
called him a bastard.

She said: "It's insane!

"You dumped your wife and kids.

"You're a real scoundrel!"

Jacques was laughing:

"Don't worry.
They heard from me."

"You liar!"

That's when he said...

I asked: "How did Djamila react?"

I'd heard she said:

"If I ever see Jacques again,
I'll slice off his balls!"

He said: "I haven't been
in touch with her. Who knows?"

He had a very simple life.

That's how he continued living in Paris.

At the beginning, and then suddenly...

he bought a full house of furniture.

When he moved from Monmartre to
Notre Dame des Champs

It was a very big apartment,
huge, beautiful apartment.

One day I came it was full of furniture.

Big rugs, tapestry on the walls,
old antique furniture.

So I got back broke.

Then I was hired

by young German women
of the Red Army Faction,

who'd been arrested in France.

And then by Carlos' friends.

So that's it.

Between "Action Directe",
separatists, squatters,

we were constantly at work,

defending victims of police brutality,

it was a lot of fun.

Carlos' current lawyer

We had lots of work

and I got along fine with Vergès.

2 1/2 years imprisonment for lawyer Klaus
Croissant for supporting a criminal organization

I went to Stammheim Prison
to see him,

and as luck had it,
the day I got there,

he was told he was free.

We created,

Jacques Vergès,
Klaus Croissant and I,

the "International Association
of Defenders of Political Prisoners".

But Klaus Croissant
and Jacques Vergès didn't get along.

So Klaus Croissant quit.

He was very active
for a while, worked hard

to create that outfit.

When he was freed he came to Paris,

then went back to East Germany.

You never worked together?

No.

I was Croissant's bodyguard.

So I was with him day and night,

I saw everything
that happened there.

Croissant's office was used

to recruit new members
for the Baader-Meinhof gang.

The story of Croissant's office,

all the young people who came to it

later became hardliners.

They all came via Croissant.

All the jailbreak plans

were hatched in the cells

on the 7th floor of Stannheim Prison.

Correctional Facility
Stuttgart-Stammheim

To get the ideas out,
you needed lawyers,

and they did it.

The weapons

were smuggled into the jails
by the lawyers.

Later with Sartre, I was the driver.

I'm for violence as a political weapon

where it is needed,

meaning where
there are mass confrontations,

or where they can be fostered.

Officially among leftists,
there's no hierarchy,

but that's crap.

The top dogs
were the Böse/Kuhlmann couple,

then came
Weinrich/Magdalena Kopp.

I knew she was Weinrich's girlfriend.

Haddad and Carlos planned
to kidnap an Arab ambassador.

He was a very rich guy,

we wanted a ransom
of 30 or 40 million dollars.

We were there for a month...
with Magdalena Kopp.

And this was the first time I met him.

Carlos' Ex-Wife

He was different from us.
Very different.

He had a tie, he had a jacket,
he had a suit.

And we were left-wing people,
we had long hair...

clogs.

The boss wasn't Carlos,
it was Michel Moukarbel.

Carlos killed him later in Paris.

Apolice Lt and two detectives

go to Carlos's house in Paris.

Carlos opens the door,
understands fast,

three Frenchmen with Moukarbel.

Pretending to get his papers,
he gets a gun,

fires, kills the 2 detectives,
severely wounds the Lt,

and "executes",
as he says, Moukarbel.

Anyway, Carlos...

He's not normal.

He's a psychopath.

Operation by Carlos on
the orders of Waddi Haddad

Carlos came into the boardroom

and he was like a kid,

he fired at the ceiling and yelled:

"I'm Carlos,
you must've heard of me."

But the operation got fouled up
from the start.

They started to shoot at once,

and it turned into a gunfight,

and they killed some policemen.

In the gunfight,

H.J. Klein got a bullet
in the stomach.

By the time they got me to Algeria,
I was clinically dead.

I was seriously wounded,
all smashed inside.

The operation in Vienna
against the OPEP

had several goals.

The first was to collect funds,
force Iran and Saudi Arabia

Involved in the attack on OPEC

to come up with money.

The other goal was to execute

Zaki Yamani, the Oil Minister.

Oil Minister
Saudi Arabia

This goal made no sense to us.

Why attack Zaki Yamani,
who wasn't against us,

who was for the Palestinian cause.

So I had a talk with Carlos,
who was in the operation,

to change the goals,

and not concentrate
on the execution,

because there'd be
huge dangers later.

Carlos put 42 hostages on a bus

Carlos congratulates
the released hostages

Fortunately, during the
Vienna operation, we got along fine.

At first, I was politically in charge,

and he was militarily in charge.

Later we decided to trade roles.

In the end,
they managed to land in Algeria

and freed all the hostages for money

which infuriated Waddi Haddad.

It meant 3 to 5 million dollars
for Carlos.

- To spare Yamani.
- Yes.

To me,
he's a figure at Algiers airport:

A man who was thin then,

wearing a Che Guevara beret,

and Bouteflika beside him.

We were in a huge government villa,

we were treated like kings.

The head of the Algerian
secret service came every day,

sometimes with
the Algiers Police Chief.

Then I started to have doubts:

The Police Chief
knew I was German and said:

"Hitler was a good man."

I said to myself: "Poor FLN."

They were put up in a villa

and the Police Chief,
I knew everyone...

Carlos had already seen
The Battle of Algiers.

They asked to see me,

I went there,
we saw the film again,

and we even played soccer...
There was a yard nearby,

we tried to have fun like that.
He told me his...

We exchanged phone numbers,

and passwords, etc.

We ate with Boumediène.

He was Foreign Minister then.

Later, Klein disappeared from sight
for 20 years.

He mailed his gun
to a big German newspaper

saying: "I'm H.J. Klein,
I did those things,

"now I've turned a page,

"and I'm renouncing violence."

When Waddi Haddad died,

his organization split up

into small groups
that became mercenaries.

Carlos created his own organization.

He saw that terrorism
meant big money.

The Carlos group
was watched day and night

while they were in East Europe.

In East Germany
the STASI watched them,

spied on their hotel rooms,

taped everything

and wrote reports.

Carlos now lived
behind the Iron Curtain,

in East Germany
and also in Hungary.

The East Germans
quietly expelled him there,

without advising
their Hungarian friends.

When the Hungarians found out
he was in Budapest,

they went to talk to him,

but never to hand him
to the West that wanted him.

Meeting of Carlos and Weinrich

Pictures from a secret
service hidden camera

Carlos on the phone about
Johannes Weinrich, his right hand

The only person who's purer
than me

is Johannes Weinrich.

He's too pure.

This can be a dirty business.

He's virginally pure.
I'm not exaggerating.

Magdalena,
via Johannes Weinrich, met Carlos,

and changed lovers:

She dropped Weinrich for the boss.

They had a villa in Budapest,

it was Carlos' HQ for several years.

What does a couple talk about in bed,
what's their pillow talk

before going to sleep?

In bed, Carlos told Magdalena Kopp

that she had to do something,

because she'd been
in the group a long time,

and had never dirtied her hands.

"Go to Paris,
where we're going to strike.

"You have to go get the explosives

"and move them
to where we'll strike."

The Hungarian secret services
taped it all.

We were in the parking lot
of the Champs-Élysées.

We picked up a car which was parked
there the night before.

And when we entered the car
there were no papers in the car.

And suddenly two policemen
knocked at the window

and said "Where are your papers?".

And we had no papers.

The two ran away.

The police...

knocked down Magdalena Kopp
as she crossed the Champs Elysées.

And arrested her.
In a street further on,

Bruno Bréguet drew his gun
and aimed at the policemen.

It jammed:
He threw it away and surrendered.

I remember the arrest of
Magdalena Kopp and Bruno Bréguet,

I was on duty
when they were nabbed gun in hand.

Prosecutor

In the car they abandoned,

a bomb was found,
with a detonator.

The bomb was set to go off
that day at 10.30 PM.

He had just dumped a briefcase.

In it were found 2 grenades,

5 kilos of penthrite
and a detonation system.

That's a powerful explosive
used in France

only by the army.

But in the car due to be exploded,

were also 2 gas cylinders,
to boost the blast.

The idea was to place the bomb

in front of the Paris embassy
of an Arab country,

to explode it
and blackmail that country.

"Pay us X number of millions,

"or the next bomb
will kill many people,

"and it may even be
in your capital city."

They accepted a public defender.

Then after thinking it over,

maybe like Joan of Arc,
they heard voices,

and appointed me...

It was not clear for me, what
was his relationship with Genoud.

But all the time...

Bruno Bréguet had his
contact with Genoud.

Carlos left a letter at the French
Embassy in The Hague, saying:

"We're not your enemies.

"We have a secret deal, free them."

To Mr Gaston Deferre,
Defense Minister

"Sir, Two of our group,
MC Kopp and Bruno Bréguet..."

Signed. Carlos. My thumbprints
authenticate this letter.

Several ministers met
and one of them tells the press.

Deferre said: "Whoever did that
is responsible for any bloodshed."

Once it was public,
Deferre's position

was that Carlos would
have to make good his threat.

Cabinet of President Mitterand.

In this letter, dated late February,

the ultimatum was one month:

If they didn't get a satisfactory
answer within a month,

there'd be reprisals.

After this, I had talks
with the Interior Ministry.

They were embarrassed
and decided

to hold the trial
during the summer vacations,

that way...

during the vacations,

they'd face
less repressive prosecutors.

Bruno Bréguet
had an automatic pistol

that jammed as he was about to fire
at the policeman...

The whole case rested on that.

If he threw away his gun
because it jammed,

but intended to kill, it was murder:
He'd get at least 7 years.

But if he'd only aimed to frighten,

he'd get much less.

We had to convince the DA

that he was just carrying
a banned weapon,

he'd waved it in the air,

had pulled the trigger accidentally:

Luckily the gun jammed.

First we had to convince the DA,

then the Prosecutor,
who concurred.

Mr Jean-Louis Debré,

who was DA in this case,

now a majority leader,

and Mr Alain Marsaud,
who was the Prosecutor

now a right-wing deputy,

both agree that the orders
from up above

were not to be too tough...

It was a real perversion

of our judicial system

and not a glorious page...

It's best to tum that page fast.

29th March 1982
Expiry of Ultimatum

Train "Capitole"
5 dead, 27 injured

So many bombs were exploding,
so many people died.

And I was the reason, in fact.

Did Carlos, with
his known sympathies for the PLO

and his Syrian connections,

organize
the deadly blast Rue Marbeuf?

The explosion went off
just when the trial was due to start,

had it started on time.

Both Bruno Bréguet
and Magdalena Kopp

remained silent this morning.

Proud, smiling scornfully,
they ridicule the trial.

They didn't rise
when their names were called out,

as if they knew that Carlos
or someone would free them.

So when we arrived at the court,

Jacques told us there
was a bomb exploding.

And everybody was very
excited or nervous.

Dynamite in a train station locker.
Carlos again.

Train bomb threat.

You seem to know him well?

No, not at all.

No letters or phone calls from him?

Absolutely not.

You're not acting
on instructions from Mr Carlos?

Absolutely not.

I'm here to defend

the two prisoners,

and I won't hide the sympathy
and esteem I feel for them.

That's all.

"The truth is, Magdalena Kopp
and Bruno Bréguet will be freed.

Excepert from the pleading

"You know that, and so do they.

"They're soldiers of a noble cause

"who want to free the oppressed,

"and restore dignity
to humiliated people.

"The rest of their army
will keep striking

"until they are free.

"Your only problem is when
you free them and avoid bloodshed."

It was the truth.

Which isn't the best thing to say.

But it is: The Court
will pay heed to the truth.

Only the irresponsible press won't.
They'll write:

"That's horrible...
How can one say such things?"

Sentenced to four
years imprisonment

I had to pass my time in prison, but you
must always have something where you can

maybe have something

She had 150 visits

to be have happy for, so when
he came to visit me I was happy.

He used to go there very often.

And I didn't understand it.

In the begining, what was it all about.

Then, very soon, he would send me to buy

nice cakes, tarts.

Fruit tarts and the little
newspapers she would like.

Or some books.

And he was very looking forward,
and he was staying a long time.

And it sounded fishy
to me and I didn't like it.

But still, I would go and drive him.

I stood in line at Christmas,

as families could bring 5 kilos

of foodstuff to prisoners.

I took the orders.

I nicknamed Bruno Bréguet
"The Squirrel":

He liked candied fruit.

Magdalena Kopp was more refined:

She wanted smoked German ham,

country bread,

ice-cream...

I brought her all that,
waited in line among families,

who were amazed to see me
in the line with them.

I can admit it now.

Alcohol is forbidden in jail,

but on the ice-cream
I poured armagnac.

He was telling me all these
stories about his clients

or about some quotations of books.

So I find it a nice thing

to knit and thing about Vergès,
and make a sweater for him.

I did not make a sweater for Carlos.

He was her lawyer,

and they developed

a strong platonic relationship,
and he gave her jewellery.

And if you see Magdalena Kopp

today, she still wears
a gold ring with a small red stone

that Vergès gave her,
and a gold chain with a red stone

that he gave her.

But still there was this infatuation.

With this woman, it was brave...
"brave" under quotations.

And he likes that.
He was very attracted to her.

That is the fact.

So there must be a pattern.

It was new for Magdalena Kopp,

who'd been seen as a sex object,

for someone
to be interested in her as a person,

for a man to talk to her.

Of course, there was surely also

a sexual aspect to it.

I have here a note

about the trip
of Attorney Jacques Vergès,

to East Berlin, capital
of East Germany, Dec 20, 1982.

This document states
that representatives

Former Head of Department
XXII of the Stasi (Counterterrorism)

from the Carlos group

met Vergès (Code name "Herzog")

Who advised them how to free
their members jailed in France,

Kopp... and Brèguet,

or how to help them escape.

I read here:

"For Magdalena's escape,

"Herzog suggests
getting her to a doctor

"to check her physical
and psychological health,

"and to use this visit

"to organize Kopp's escape."

The purpose of this report

was definitely to inform superiors.

Like me, for instance,
as head of the unit.

I consider this report

as objective and true to reality.

I was able to get in contact
with many of them,

who confirmed it to me.

It wasn't a single STASI officer,

a whole department kept
the Carlos group under surveillance.

It's very well documented.

There are stacks of documents
on the Carlos group

and its relations with Vergès.

And just after the Wall came down
they were made public.

I don't see how
they could've been faked!

Central Prison near Paris

These notebooks,
photographed secretly by the STASI,

during a search,

clearly belonged
to Johannes Weinrich.

They've even been published since.

They were clearly diaries
for Weinrich,

who wrote about what he did,

to remind him

what had been concluded,
when and with whom.

They had in front of them,
copies of Joseph's diary.

There was FBI and there
were people from Germany.

The diary he kept, I saw...

It was siting in front of
me so I was glancing.

And looking at it...

"New name: Neda = Sonja.

"She'll act as liaison
between me and Gabriel."

New Vergès codename=Gabriel

"Gabriel arrives September 10.

"Herzog's hotel bill.

"Herzog got $3000."

It was not just the questions about Joseph,
it was more about Jacques.

What was he doing, who was he seeing.

And I tried to explain to them that
I was his chauffeur.

"Gabriel will come once a month.
(His idea)

"He'll have a cover for his visits."

In 1982, in Budapest.

It was our first meeting at my home.

We toasted with champagne.

We got on well, he's a nice guy.

So I recruited him. I said.

"Listen, you'll carry messages
to the French government."

Jacques came to see

that same year, by the end of August.

He was coming back from Africa I think.

And he made a stop in Belgrade.

So he wanted to see Joseph
and of course he saw me.

And he had an escort,
a police escort from the airport.

To wherever he was going.

One day,
I see the warden of Fresnes prison,

and I tell him:

"Magdalena Kopp will be out soon.

"Please tell me when."

One day he tells me: "Let's say,
she'll be freed next Monday."

So the following Monday,
I'm there at 8 AM

to be ready for anything,
and I see a police car tear out

with her inside.

I say to the warden: "You promised
and didn't keep your word."

He says: "When the police
come here, what can I do?"

That evening,
Magdalena Kopp calls me:

"I'm in Offenburg, in Germany,
it's close to...

"Strasbourg.

"I don't know what's going on."

I jumped on a plane to Strasbourg,
then by car to Offenburg,

where we drank champagne,
actually German fizzy wine,

to toast her liberation.

A bit later, the phone rang.

She picked it up
and a voice said: "It's me."

She knew it was Carlos.
He didn't say his name,

but she knew at once it was Carlos.

He said to her:
"Come and see me at once."

And hung up.

I had no choice.

To stay in Germany, he would
have looked for me everywhere.

I wouldn't have been safe anyplace.

I think it was logical, I had
no choice then, to go back.

And if I would not have gone back

maybe he would thinik the Germans keep me?

And he started to do
something against them?

It's quite possible, no?

I realized, if I had his child,

he'd never involve me again
in his activities,

because I was
the mother of his child.

Vergès wanted to screw her,

in that hotel
by the German border. He did.

I know it, I know everything.

Before your arrest,
how many times did you see Vergès?

5 times, 10 times?

20 times, 25 times.

Before your arrest?

Yes... I don't know how many times.
25 times in Damascus.

And the following years, up to 1991.

We last met
in Damascus in August, 1991.

Anyway,
Vergès used to come and see us.

We liked him a lot.
Even the neighbors' kids knew him.

His slanted eyes
were a curiosity in Damascus.

My little girl knew him
as her Uncle Jacques.

The neighbors' kids
in the street knew him.

"Jacques is here!"

So Carlos lived in Damascus

with Weinrich and Magdalena Kopp.

One of their rare
regular visitors in Damascus

was François Genoud.

We heard of Barbie's arrest,
in February, 1983

Arrest of Klaus Barbie
in February 1983

by the Bolivians,
and handed over to the French.

I said to my wife:
"We'll have to take care of it."

My wife,
who was getting a bit tired said:

"François, you don't know him.

"Do you really

"have to help him?"

I answered: "Elisabeth,
if we don't do it, who will?"

I phoned Vergès.

He said:
"I was just thinking about you."

So I said to him:

"When I think about a friend,
I phone him.

"How do you feel about this?"

He said: "It's very interesting."

"Would you agree
to take on his case?"

He first went to see Oussedik
to ask him to defend Barbie.

Oussedik refused
because it was Barbie, and said,

"If I agreed to do it,

"I'd feel I was betraying what I did
for the Algerian revolution,

"and that's out of the question."
And he said: "Go see Vergès,

"I'm sure he'll do it very well."

Can you confirm
you're involved in Barbie's defense?

It's for TF1, French TV.

No comment.

Are you paying for his defense?

I have nothing to say on this matter.

But you're interested in this trial?

Like everybody else.

You know Vergès, Barbie's lawyer?

He's an old friend. That's all.

"Butcher of Lyons"

In Lyon they put on a real show.

They turned the main hall
into a courtroom,

to seat 700 people.

A raised courtroom
with stairs leading up to it.

The French government
built the set.

Then it was up to us,

within their set,
to improvise our play.

The court is in session.

Guards, bring in the prisoner.

No one else
could have done what he did.

He derailed a huge machine

that wanted to make Barbie's trial,
the exemplary trial

of World War II,
of the Holocaust, the Shoah...

That's fine,
but they wanted to keep out

anything that could focus

on the crimes against humanity

committed in Algeria,
sub-Saharan Africa, slavery...

It was exhilarating.

There's 39 lawyers
on the other side...

and I'm all alone.

It means each of them
is only worth a fortieth of me.

Shortly before the trial,

Roland Dumas said to me:

"I've just been hired

by a Resistance group,
what do you think?"

I answered:
"I don't fear you, but don't take it."

There'll be 30 or 40 lawyers like you,
singing the same song,

"feigning emotion that you don't feel."

"No!

"It's for human dignity!"

I say to him: "The first three,
if they're good actors,

"will be a hit."

But by the fourth or fifth,
people will be fed up with it.

But he took it on.

I ask you,
and you don't have to answer,

tell me the name
of one of those legal eagles?

A trial is magical, full of surprises.

"Never again",
we've heard that a hundred times.

But opposite me they were saying:

"What ploy will the bastard
come up with today?"

They couldn't wait to hear
the bastard's ploy.

And, being imaginative,
he found one every day.

I said: "Shit! You can't defend Barbie,
that's outrageous.

Illustrator

"You're baiting everyone."

He said: "Yes, but...",
then explained at length,

though I understood quite fast
what his aim was.

He converted me
because he's pretty smart.

He said: "I'll put the French on trial,
the use of torture in France,

"I'll relate it to the Algerian war.

"Follow the trial, you'll see."

There's not much difference

between the methods used in Algeria

and the methods
used by the Gestapo in Lyon.

People died under torture in Algeria.

I know it,
I've researched that myself.

I think Vergès is deeply anti-colonial
and always will be.

He can't stand it.

He won't let up on them,
he'll claw at them...

until France recognizes

that some of its officers
behaved like Nazi officers.

I can't stand
a man being humiliated,

even an enemy.

For a lone man to be insulted
by a lynch mob.

I was asked:
"Would you defend Hitler?"

"I said I'd even defend Bush!

"But only if he agrees
to plead guilty."

When Ayatollah Khomeini
came to power in 1978,

he got a lot of help

from the Palestinians.

The Palestinians
played an important role

in his takeover.

During the Iranian Revolution,

Ohapour Bakhtiar,
the Shah's last Prime Minister

fled Iran and settled in Paris.

Khomeini decided

that Bakhtiar
had to be killed, executed.

It was probably

a "confidential" task

that Ayatollah Khomeini gave
this fellow Naccache,

who had no talent at all
for dirty deeds.

Our attempt was a total failure:

I was wounded
and all my commandos arrested.

In a gunfight
in front of Bakhtiar's apartment,

a neighbor was killed,
a cop badly wounded.

Naccache,
was acting on Khomeini's fatwa.

Khomeini can't let him
end up in jail.

Anti-French riots
in Teheran to free "The 5 Fighters"

The Naccache affair is yet another

problem between France and Iran.

Iran is at war with Iraq,
that is backed by France,

supplying arms, planes,
training Iraqi pilots.

France had received
from the Shah of Iran

at the end of his reign,

a huge sum
of around a billion dollars

to set up a nuclear industrial project.

Iran wants that money back.

France says: "The Shah lent it to us,
we won't repay Khomeini."

But Iran needs this money
to fund the war.

In a way,

our diplomacy
had declared war on Iran

and didn't know it.

But Iran was very aware of it,

and was the victim
of these operations.

It wanted to get a message across.

Eiffel Tower bomb!

Champs Elysées bomb!
Bookstore bomb!

"The bookstore was us, too."

Bomb in FNAC store!
4 blasts in 3 days

"Free Naccache and Garbidjian fast."

Bullet Train bomb!

"The Bullet Train
will be the first of a new series."

Starting in February, March,

there was a big wave of attacks,

committed and claimed
by a new organization

supporting Arab political prisoners,

demanding the liberation of 3 people

with very different profiles,
at least for 2 of them:

Anis Naccache, Iranian-backed.

Received life sentence.
Defense Attorney:

Garbidjian,
formerly with Waddi Haddad.

Who is a member of the secret
Armenian Liberation Army.

And Georges lbrahim Abdallah,

a former Waddi Haddad

commando member,

who created
the Lebanese Revolutionary Army,

and killed U.S. And Israeli diplomats.

We, in Government Security,
couldn't believe a single organization

had been formed
to demand these liberations.

I realized that these 3 characters,

whose liberation
the organizations demanded,

and who were all serving
life sentences,

hadn't been in contact with anyone.

Judge Marsaud tried, I say,
to use extreme measures,

threatening Abdallah

with being sent on a "wood chore",
ie executed.

Without warning me,
he was moved from the Fleury prison

to the Santé prison.

But...

prisons have leaks.

A guard phoned me to say:

"Your client is in the Santé prison."

Abdallah was negotiating with us,

or we were negotiating with him,

so he could phone Beirut

and tell his brothers,

who were suspected
of perpetrating the attacks,

and tell his brothers,

that he opposed being freed
by this kind of action.

Things were going quite well,

except that there was a leak,

most probably
by a guard in the Santé prison,

who let him know
that Vergès was on his case,

and concerned about his treatment.

From then on, it's true

that Abdallah's attitude
changed completely

and he clammed up,
as he had for years,

knowing that Vergès
was on his case.

Why was the last attack
on Sept 17?

Because they'd run out of explosives.

They had no more explosives.

Arrested terrorists
linked to Iran

If we'd known that,
we'd have told Naccache:

"Get on the phone
to Hezbollah or the mullahs."

But we didn't know
Iran was behind it.

So to us Naccache was just in it,

almost by accident.

I started making political statements,

like backing Khomeini's fatwa
on Salman Rushdie.

I had ideas

about the position
of Muslims in Europe.

All we wanted

was to get Naccache
out of France fast.

But that point of view

wasn't shared by...

President Mitterrand was against it.

During those ten years,
much had changed,

there were new Islamic movements,
resistance movements.

They all felt

that I was a symbol,
and had to be freed from jail.

He wrote me
asking me to go see him.

I went, and he said then:

"Attorney,
I'm serving a life sentence.

"So far I haven't been
on a hunger strike.

"But now,
it looks like France and Iran

"will settle their nuclear differences.

"If they reach an agreement,
I'll be forgotten.

"I'll be a minor item.

"I want to be part
of that agreement.

"So I'm going on a hunger strike

"and need you as my lawyer."

When he visited me
the first time in jail,

he asked me about my childhood,
why I was a militant, etc.

I told him:

"I went on my first demonstration
aged 7. It was for Djamila Bouhired."

He smiled, and said:

"I was Djamila's lawyer
and husband for a while."

We became friends

and I saw we were on
the same political wavelength,

that he could make
the needed statements

to the media on my behalf

on why I'd taken this step.

He lost 27 kilos,
he now weighs 48 kilos.

Tomorrow
he'll be put on a drip feed for 4 days.

So his state is alarming.

We waited and when...

we saw it was legally feasible,

Roland Dumas and I
went to see the President.

"Now's the time to do it,

"and immediately! We can't lose...

"We should expel this guy."

So President Mitterrand
pardoned us,

though all 5 of us had life sentences,

and we got out after 10 years.

It was a political solution.

Nice holidays!

A year later, Schaper
Bakhtiar was murdered by

three men on behalf of
the Iranian government.

Naccache was the first prisoner

who clearly said he was part
of a revolutionary Islamism.

It was the first step

of Islam-inspired terrorism
in a western country.

We were the first
to have to deal with it,

long before the Americans,
British or Spaniards.

Carlos' error in France

was killing 3 undercover cops.
They never forget that.

Carlos was kidnapped in Sudan.

We know Carlos and Vergès
knew each other well,

for a long time,
and when he was arrested,

Carlos said he was his lawyer.

When the judge
tried to reach Vergès,

he couldn't reach him all day.

So Carlos then appointed Oussedik.

Tigrane & Oussedik's Lawyers

Oussedik filed a kidnapping complaint.

Carlos agreed to it,
and signed the complaint.

But later he told us
that he withdrew it,

claiming it was too soon.

It would irk Pasqua,
the Interior Minister.

Vergès said he'd negotiate
with Pasqua,

and to drop the complaint.

You betrayed me...

He's a traitor.

I always thought
he was on our side,

that he was a Communist at heart.

That's a betrayal.

And as a lawyer, he can't do that.

Oussedik was furious.

At Vergès,

who advised...

Carlos to drop the kidnapping
complaint against France,

and its secret service,
for kidnapping him in Sudan.

He's furious,
doesn't understand Vergès' position.

So he starts asking questions,
looking around...

Oussedik starts to inquire...

Vergès. His real links to Carlos.

Vergès was Carlos' link
to France in 1982

Prison visit to Carlos three
days after imprisonment.

A new visit yesterday for Carlos.

Jacques Vergès told him

that he, Vergès,
has been accused of complicity.

He laughs a lot.
He said: "Soon you'll be inside."

"I'll get out,
and bring you oranges."

Judge Bruguière has new evidence
on Vergès and Carlos

Judge Bruguière
wants you off the case,

then to charge you,
to indict you.

They're trying,

with documents they say
they got from the STASI,

to throw me off balance.
I await that very calmly.

If they hope to get rid of me
on this case by indicting me,

they won't succeed.
I'll be in the dock, with Carlos,

and I'll certainly talk.

- Are you part of Carlos' network?
- Of course not.

- You'd swear to it?
- Of course I would.

You'd swear it in a law court?

Of course.

You spoke to Carlos
before he came back?

- No.
- Never?

- You had no news?
- No.

- Never?
- Never.

Even on trips you made.
Nothing at all?

- Since how long?
- Since forever.

Since forever?

You weren't in Eastern bloc countries
to see Carlos' deputy?

Never. The STASI claim that,
but it's a lie.

Even if I saw Carlos, it's my right.

Carlos was my client
for a few months. He isn't anymore.

Professional rules forbid me
to talk of him.

Jacques Vergès was never
prosecuted again for the Carlos affair.

Carlos lives in Clairvaux
prison. He expects to be acquitted

and dismissed by Judge
Bruguiere after the conclusion of

the pending cases against him
in connection with the attacks

in Rue Marbeuf, St Charles
station and the Capitole train.

Magdalena Kopp lives with her daughter
in her hometown, not far from her mother.

Annis Maccache lives and
works in Iran and Lebanon.

Johannes Weinrich is
alive in a German prison.

Klaus Croissant worked with the Stasi. He died
in 2002 after living in Germany for 20 years.

Djamila Bouhired lives in Algiers and continues to
refuse all political functions, honors and interviews.

"Omar killed me"

We lawyers

have a big advantage over doctors.

We can tell someone:
"I don't want to defend you."

But if we agree to do it,
this trust compels us

to fight tooth and nail to defend him,

and use all every legal device
there is.

But we must never
cross that white line,

or else...

we become vulnerable.