All language subtitles for The.Curious.Case.of.Natalia.Grace.S01E05.720p.WEB.h264-EDITH

She's abusive!

[sighs]

[sniffs] I couldn't
[bleep] stand up
to that woman!

I could today.

I could now,
with distance and space
and clarity.

I could now.

I couldn't!

I just couldn't.

[crying]

[Jacob] Oh, no, that's just...

That's just all
I wanted to talk about,

but now I feel like a moron
because I have
my microphone on.

[Jacob] Uh, [bleep].

[interviewer]
Were you disciplined
by Kristine and Mike?

-Mmm.
-[interviewer] Okay.
Tell me about that.

Um, they didn't, like, really,
like, whup me or nothing
like that.

[interviewer] Okay.

Did anyone ever put
their hands on you?

-Um...
-[interviewer] Do you know
what that means?

Like physically, did anyone...

-No.
-[interviewer]
...physically harm you?

[Natalia speaking]

[Beth] Initially, Natalia,

in her interview
with the forensic interviewer,

with the prosecutor's office,

she's made a lot
of conflicting statements

and they are memorialized
in police reports.

Now, they whupped me,
like, you know, how, like,

sometimes, um, parents
they whup you with a belt.

They did whup me.

She literally let the boys
whup me.

-[interviewer] She let
the three boys whup you?
-Yes.

-[interviewer] Okay.
-Uh, Jacob,
he just dropped me.

-[Natalia mumbles]
-[interviewer] When you say
he just dropped you,

-what does that mean?
-Like, he literally...

[interviewer] Just... Oh,
he just dropped you?

-Yeah.
-[interviewer] So did he,
like, pick you up?

-Mmm.
-[interviewer] Okay.

[interviewer]
So when the three boys
were whupping you,

who was in the room?

Kristine, she was sitting
right on my left.

First she whupped me.
Then she had the boys,

and then Michael whupped me.

[interviewer speaking]

-[Natalia speaking]
-[interviewer] Okay.

So, so this is actually, uh,
this ties in
to one of the things I, uh...

didn't know whether or not
to talk about here.

But...

Uh, I think I decided
I will anyways.

One of Natalia's
problematic behaviors

was that
she would frequently soil,
urinate,

in places where she shouldn't.

Um...

Such as, for example,
on blankets

or on furniture,
such as a couch,

uh, or a bed.

Because
it was happening frequently,
whatever, my, uh, mother

was trying to do
to address the situation,

uh, wasn't working.

So, uh...

One solution
my mom came up with

was for me to urinate
in Natalia's bed.

She had pink blankets.

The vivid part
is just, like,
basically the action.

I remember feeling anger,
while I was doing it, like...

Like, uh,
experiencing a thought, like,

"Oh, this will,
this will show her."

Do... Do we need more
on this topic,
or are we good or...

[sighs]

She... She didn't give me
instructions, man.

Like, she didn't, like,

"Oh, let's aim that way!"

Like, I was never... [groans]

[sighs]

[Jacob] I had performed this,
uh, action of urinating
in Natalia's bed,

and, uh, yeah,
to this day I feel horrible
that I actually did that.

Uh... It's one of those things
that keeps me up at night.

Like, I , uh, kind of feel
like a Nazi following orders,
in a way.

So there is definitely guilt.

I don't think
Natalia was treated fairly.

In the unlikely scenario
that Natalia, uh,
listens to this,

and doesn't just, like,
turn it off,

I hope she understands
that I'm apologetic.

Uh... I've had a lot of time
to really... just...

think about stuff and grow up.

But... uh...

I don't know if I wish
to talk about this further.

I mean, I've gotten
a lot of stuff
off my chest, that...

I haven't really had a chance
to speak about publicly.

Yeah, I'm good.

[gulps]
Yeah, I don't think
I have anything else to add.

Jacob has relayed to me

that Kristine made
him specifically,

we're not going to talk about
anybody else...

[sighs] While I was at work,

Kristine made Jacob pee
all over Natalia's things.

Jacob's words to me,

his mom explained it to him
as, "It is therapeutic."

It is something
that a therapist
told her to be done.

Kristine told Jake
that it's okay.

And my wife made
my [bleep] 12-year-old son

pee all over Natalia's things
as a get-you-back.

Give me a second.

[inhales deeply]

Parents that are out there...

[sniffs]

...you hear your kid
tell you something
like that...

12 years later...

I heard about this
for the first time this week.

[exhales]

You don't know how to react.

I don't know... I don't know
what Jacob needs from me
in that moment.

I tried to put my arm on him
as he was telling me

and he smacked me away.

Kristine controlled
her children,

and used them
to control Natalia.

It was all about control
and manipulation.

The Barnett's are supposed to,
like all parents,
protect their children.

Kristine put Jacob
on the frontlines.

And it makes you wonder,
what did she force
Natalia to do?

Natalia was abused
by that woman!

I was abused by that woman!

Jacob was abused
by that woman!

My other two sons are abused
by that woman
right now, today!

That woman is a controlling,
lying, manipulating woman!

We were all abused!

[crying]

[Kathy] Kristine's a monster.

One time she yelled at me

because she was standing
on a step,

on a chair,
to change a lightbulb,

and I want her
to get off the chair,

because she was pregnant
and due the next day.

And she's up on a...

Yelling because Michael
hadn't changed a lightbulb.

And I said, "Kristine,
you need to come down."

She told everybody I hit her.

And then she told me
I had to leave their house,

that I wasn't welcome
there anymore.

But the really hard part
is what this has done
to my son.

He's been raked
over the coals.

He's been treated like crap.

When... He's a...
He's a good person,

and I know
every mother is going
to say that.

But I think that
a piece of him
has been carved out

and thrown away.

So...

There's the easy definition
of sexual abuse,

which is obvious and visual.

And you can see it
and you can know it.

And then there's
what I went through.

Did she sexually abuse me
by physically violating
my body?

No, she did not.

Did she sexually abuse me
by using it as a tool?

Yes, she did.

[sighs]

So, Kristine's sexual things
to manipulate me was basically
holding it from me.

Keeping it from me.

She knew
I was attracted to her.

There were many years

that the number of times
that she permitted it
to happen

was single digits.

She never came on to me.

She never told me
I was attractive.

She's the attractive one,
I'm the ugly one.

So, invariably,

I get a wee bit addicted
to pornography.

Pornography is not going
to tell me I'm ugly.

It's not going to reject me.

So...

Kristine would use
the pornography stuff
against me.

It made it worse.

October, 2013,

I leave Canada.

We were not yet divorced
at this time,

and Kristine decides
to start using sex
as a weapon

to make me come back

and get back in role
and serve.

So she would start
sending naughty pictures
to me.

Teasing me, tempting me.

"If you just come back,
you'll get this."

Kristine was leveraging
her body, her sex,

to get what she wanted
in the divorce.

You can have this,

but give me what I want,
which is custody of the boys.

And he agrees!

[Michael] Kristine
is the walking epitome
of evil.

At first,
for a very long time,

I thought the brainwashing
was only on me.

I didn't see it
happening to anybody else.

Until I saw how my sons
had been manipulated
after divorce.

She told my kids
over and over and over
and over and over,

"Your father
is going to kill you,
I'm going to protect you."

And,
for a young developing mind...

How often do you need your mom

to repeat to you,
"Your dad is going
to kill you,"

until you start buying it?

My middle son
and my youngest son,

I've not seen them
in over eight years.

And they want nothing
to do with seeing me.

Evil. She's earned it.

She's earned
every single letter of it.
Evil.

Given the bitter divorce
between Michael and Kristine,

they really hate each other.

There's a war between them

and the criminal cases
against Michael and Kristine
are coming up.

The prosecution
had to file charges separately
against Michael and Kristine,

I suspect because Michael
told Detective Davenport

about a lot
of alleged criminal conduct
by Kristine,

and Michael's trial is first.

So was he trying
to put all the blame
on Kristine,

to escape any accountability?

Or is he motivated by revenge?

[Michael] For the first year,
after the divorce,

we were using
the one communal phone.

The one communal phone,
at that point in time,

had been set up
to automatically back up

pictures and videos.

So, every time
she takes a picture
of my sons.

It's automatically backing up
to my Dropbox account.

So I'm opening Dropbox
every day,

hoping to see my kids.

Hoping to see smiles.
Hoping to see a video.

Hoping to hear their voices.

And, nearly immediately after,
I'm seeing pictures.

Pictures of her
in various states of undress,

that I know are being sent
to other people.

[Kristine]
You saw those pictures,
they were tame.

I could have been wearing
a fricking pair of shorts
in those pictures.

And you've not... And...

You don't know which ones
I sent to him,

because there were some
really, really tame ones,

and then there were the ones
that I sent to you.

-[Michael] You didn't...
-[Kristine] And why
did I send them to you?

-[sighs]
-[Kristine] Why did I send
them to you?

-Tell me the truth. You know.
-[Michael] You didn't...

[Kristine] Tell me
why I sent them to you.

[Michael]
...send me anything, Kris.

-You didn't email me
any of them.
-[Kristine] What?

[Michael] You didn't text me
any of them, you didn't
send any to me.

[Kristine]
I know that you stalk
the frick out of me.

[Michael] It was in...

-[Kristine] I know it.
-[Michael] ...Kris,
it's in my Dropbox.

[Kristine] I know
that you go on Spotify
on my computer.

-I know that you search
my internet.
-[Michael] Spotify...

Wait, wait, wait, stop.
Do you know what Spotify is?

[Kristine] I do not, no.
It's a... I don't know
what it is but...

[Michael] Spotify...
Spotify is like Pandora,
it's a music player!

Kristine was not tech-savvy.

She didn't
understand computers.

She didn't
understand technology.

She would take
pictures of herself
in lingerie

and save them there.

And this whole time
Michael is living with me
and my family and...

these are just appearing
on his computer.

And... to watch him
go through the devastation
is...

It was almost like his life
was being ripped apart
from the inside,

and not only his life
but his heart.

There has been
a lot of pain in their 15-year
broken marriage.

She has twisted, convoluted,

lied publicly, privately,
repeatedly,

over and over and over again
so she can maintain power,
money, control

over everything and everyone.

Natalia was manipulated,
brainwashed, engineered

into looking
as crazy as possible.

Summer 2012,
Marion County Court
has ruled

that Natalia is, and has been,
an adult.

A month or two
before that moment...

Kristine has taught
and rehearsed

a greeting with Natalia.

"Hi..." I...
I even have to do it
in the voice and everything.

So, let me
get me a little sip of water.

Because I can see her do it.

Because I can see her,
with her hands,
her fingers don't bend

due to one of her dysplasias,
and it's just the way it is.

"Hi, my name's Natalia.

I might look young
but I'm actually 23 years old,

and I'm dangerous.
I have tried
to kill people before."

[sighs]

This is going
to sound terrible.

I don't think
I ever witnessed her

say that greeting
to a stranger, publicly aloud.

I don't think
I was ever present

when Natalia, on her own,
met a stranger.

It was something Kristine
had taught Natalia

for when we weren't around

and Kristine couldn't warn
the people herself

that she's dangerous.

Should I have been
more of a man?

Should I have stood up
and taken control

and put my foot down? Yeah.

Take that back.

That's not being a man.
Should I have been
a different person?

Yes. Absolutely.

Was I at all,
mentally or emotionally,
capable of doing such a thing?

No.

She's abusive!

[sighs]

[sniffs] I couldn't
[bleep] stand up
to that woman!

I could today!

[heavy breathing]

I could now,
with distance and space
and clarity. I could now!

I couldn't.

[sobs] I just couldn't.

[crying]

[Melanie] When she told me
that she had tried
to kill her mom,

it's like, "Why was that?"

And I felt like either
she was coached to say that,

and those things didn't happen

and somebody was just saying,
like, "This is what...
This is what happened."

And kind of made her
believe that.

Or she was
just so far disconnected
emotionally

from what was happening.

[Michael] Abuse, in general,
is all about power.

Kristine was the one in power

at all times.

Kristine's the one in power
right now, today.

If it's true

that Kristine
was manipulating Natalia

to say things that were false

then it's really disturbing.

And it begs the question
of whether or not

this is evidence
of Stockholm syndrome,

or is it evidence that Natalia
was a child

following the orders
of her mother?

Now, that may explain

some
of Natalia's inconsistencies.

For example, Natalia admitted
trying to poison Kristine.

She just said,
"I tried to poison them,

so I had to live in the garage
for a while."

And then she denied it.

Did you try to put
a foreign substance
into her coffee?

-No. That's what
she told me to tell them.
-[Mark] Okay.

It sure sounds
like these statements

were things
that Natalia
didn't necessarily

want to say.

That sounds like compulsion,

like she was being forced
to say certain things.

[Beth] Everything in this case

boils down to Natalia's age.

Is she a child
or is she an adult?

Could she
really have been born in 2003?

How old
is Natalia Barnett, really?

It's clear
that the prosecution believes

Natalia was a child
when she was left alone

to fend for herself
in this apartment
in Lafayette, Indiana.

Getting her re-aged
to an adult

could have been a way
for Michael and Kristine
to protect themselves

from child neglect charges.

There are two sets,
or theories, of charges.

One is based on Natalia
being a child.

The other set of charges
is based on Natalia being
a dependent with a disability.

This is where Natalia's age
becomes extremely important.

If the prosecution can prove
that Natalia was a child,

despite her re-aging,

it should be
an open and shut case
with any jury.

[Bob] In regards to Natalia
being re-aged,

there could be
a motive factor here.

And the motive factor
could be

that whatever abuse
might have taken place,

the age makes a big difference

in how that's looked at,
legally.

[Davenport] Hey, doctor,
my name is Brandon Davenport,

I'm a detective
with the Indiana state police,

and I was trying
to get hold of you

about Natalia Barnett.

[Davenport] Yes.

So what's curious is that
this emergency petition

to re-age Natalia is based,
in large part,

on Dr. McLaren,
the family doctor,

a general practitioner.

Dr. McLaren's opinion
is apparently
what ruled the day

for the judge,
and it was enough.

This becomes a central issue
for the prosecution.

Would you agree
that the fact
that you personally believe

that Natalia is a child, that
that biases
your investigation?

I don't think
my investigation is biased.

[Mark] Okay,
so do you believe
that Natalia,

back in 2013,
do you believe she is child?

The facts suggest
that she was a child
at that time.

Actually the facts are
there's a court order

saying that she's...

[Jackie] Uh, Mr. Nicholson,
we're not going
to fight over this.

Okay.

[Jackie] He has said
that it's his opinion

the facts show
she is a child.

Is that would you said,
that it's your opinion

that the facts show
she's a child?

If you're asking me?
Sir, yes, sir.

[Beth] Natalia's age,
her birth year,

was so important
that prosecutors

and Detective Davenport
went to Ukraine.

They went there
to track down this woman,

Anna Gava,
who is, allegedly,
Natalia's biological mother,

and get a DNA sample from her.

[translator speaking]

[Davenport] So,
we came a long way
to meet you.

[translator speaking]

[Davenport] Our goal,
and I think your goal,

is we want the best
for a little girl.

So, we're going to take
this test,

to swab
the lower part of the cheek.

-[woman] Everything is done?
-[Davenport] Yes, we are.

[Beth] The DNA test
results came back,

it is a match.

She is indeed
Natalia's biological mother.

This is a huge deal,

and may put
this whole age issue
to rest.

This changes everything.

[Mark] Can you go ahead
and state your name

and spell it for the record,
please?

Natalia Barnett.

[Mark] And how old are you?

Biologically, 32... 33, sorry.

Uh...

I'm 33...

legally.

Biologically 19.

[reporter] Ukraine's president
says 30% of the country's
power stations

have been destroyed
in just over a week,

prompting residents
to restrict their use
of electricity and water.

[woman]
It's part of Moscow's campaign
to drive the nation

into the cold and dark.

[in Ukrainian]

[coughs]

[Anna clears throat]

[Anna sniffling]

[quavering]

[siren blaring distantly]

[audio distorted, cuts out]

Anna Gava was born in 1979,
which means she would have
been 10 years old

if Natalia was born in 1989,
as the courts ruled
when they re-aged her.

So there aren't
a lot of good reasons, besides
seeing pubic hair on her,

to believe she was born
any time before 2003.

Also, we know that
Michael's attorneys have
the DNA results of Anna Gava,

because they got it
in discovery in preparation
for the trial.

So they know Anna Gava
is a match for Natalia.

So... so, regarding, uh,
the... the woman
in the Ukraine...

that supposedly is...
is her mom,
or any of that stuff,

I don't know
the truth of anything.

And that is... that is
the God's honest truth.
I don't know.

And this is where my...
if my attorney
were hanging out with me,

he would jump in and say
some attorney things.

And he would say something
about due process,
and inspecting the evidence,

and researching
the validity of such things.

I've never met her,
I've never been
to the Ukraine,

I didn't conduct any test,
I've done none
of these things.

Is it somebody that I was
present for during any kind
of screening? No.

Has... has the...
has this information

been validated in
a court of law,

and been made official
that yes, this is all legit?
No.

I have this test submitted
by a prosecutor

who has a... a... a...
a reason to want
to win their case.

[newscaster] The
Tippecanoe County
Superior Court judge

sided with
the defense's argument

that Natalia's age
cannot be part of this case.

A judge ruled years ago
that Natalia was an adult

when this series of events
took place.

For that reason,
no one can portray her
as a child.

A big setback
for the prosecution.

[Beth] Despite
this DNA evidence

that Anna Gava
is Natalia's
biological mother,

the court ruling
that Natalia's age was not
gonna be relitigated

at this criminal trial
is a huge blow
to the prosecution.

All of the witnesses
were prepared to testify
about Natalia's age,

and now they're being muzzled,
and silenced.

I am attorney Mark Nicholson
for Kristine Barnett.

Jackie Starbuck,
deputy prosecuting attorney.

Attorney Terrance Kinnard,
representing, um,
Michael Barnett.

Now, you have
evaluated Natalia.
Is that correct?

-Um, I did...
I treated her, back...
-Treat... treat...

...2010, I believe.

You know that Natalia
is not a child?

When I saw her,
her growth plates were open,

so she was not an adult
when I saw her.

She has been legally declared
an adult.

Not at the time of treatment,
just so we're clear.

By time of treatment,
she was not legally an adult.

She came in, and I was told
that she was six.

It's not me that's saying it,
Doctor, with all due respect.
It's the court--

-[Joseph's audio garbled]
-[Mark] Well, sir,
let me finish, please.

Let me finish.
It is the court order
that gave her a date of birth.

And the point I'm trying
to get across to you is,

that when you testify,
and the prosecution tell you

there's not gonna be
any testimony of you

trying to tell the jury that,
"Well, when I saw her,
she was a child."

What I am telling you is...

X-rays don't lie.

Your growth plates
are not open, sir.

-Once you--
-But, Doctor, you understand

that we can't talk about that
at trial, right?

So I'm to refer to her
as an adult?

Uh... a... a person.

So we're not really interested
in the truth,
what we're interested in,

is what was legally
put out there?

I don't appreciate you saying

that we're not interested
in the truth.

-Because I am interested
in truth.
-Okay.

-There's been a lot of lies
that have been going on.
-Hold up, hold up, hold up.

-We are not going
to argue about--
-Stop, stop.

-I'm not arguing.
What I'm telling him is...
-[Jackie] Okay. But...

-but, basically...
-...he will... he will not...
he will not disrespect me,

and say that I am
not interested in the truth.

-Okay. Look...
-You know what I'm saying?

Because, you know,
because he...

-he just said that, well,
"We're not...
-[Joseph's audio muted]

-...interested in the truth."
-Um, Mr. Michaelson, can we...
can we get back to the point?

Her birth date, Doctor,
is September 4th, 1989.

[Michael] We are
at the attorney's office,
and it is game time.

We're here for court prep.

Uh, we have my three attorneys
waiting on the fourth floor,

uh, for us to go in
and figure out
exactly what the game plan is.

I wish I could tell you
what comes after trial.

I have zero idea or control
of what my life will hold,

what my future will be like,
none.

But when we go upstairs,
you're gonna see,

uh, I've got three
full-time attorneys

working on this case,
and only this case, 24-7.

We've got Riley. Riley is
a new attorney on the case.

Kind of the... the new kid.
He's sharp, he's skilled.

He's bringing in something
a little extra
that we hadn't seen before.

Then I've got Vincent Scott.

Vince is calm, to help
the jury understand,

and see, plainly and clearly,
the lies.

Then I get to the leader.

Got my attorney and savior,

-Terrance Kinnard, on my side.
-Let's do this.

Terrance and I
have really gotten close.

He truly feels like family.

He feels like a friend.

I'm 100% behind you.

I absolutely believe
you're innocent.

I don't have to tell you this,
'cause you already know,
the stakes are high.

You can't predict
what 12 people in a room
will do.

And neither can I.

These men have dedicated
their lives to saving me.

I'm up against the impossible,
but I can do it.

[Terrance] The state
of Indiana
versus Michael Barnett.

-Mmm-hmm.
-[Terrance] This trial
is about you.

We're not defending
Kristine Barnett.

So, no part of our case
will we attempt to, uh,
pave the road for her.

We will not use
the name "Kristine" in trial.

Well, we know
their overall message

-is gonna be
abandonment, right?
-[Michael] Mmm-hmm.

[Terrance] The word
"adoption" can't be used.

In this case, you know,
it's kinda crazy,

'cause everybody's expecting
this to be about
this crazy adoption.

But it's not.

-It's not.
-This case is about
an allegation of neglect.

If the jury looks at Natalia,
and her physical stature,
they'll know she's an adult.

But even as an adult,
they say,

"But still, how can parents
leave someone

so tiny by themselves?"

-Well, that's--
-And if a jury believes
that one thing,

they can find that
you've abandoned a person
that... that's in need.

They can convict.

-[Riley] In that order?
-Here's the deal. We can't
use the word "adult."

-I don't know the [bleep] why.
-You can't
use the word "child."

[Terrance] Can't...
Well, we don't wanna use
the word "child."

-What is Natalia to you?
-She is my daughter.

She's legally
my adopted daughter.

-Your 21-year-old daughter?
-Yeah, look it. These...

-Thank you.
-...[bleep] graduates, man.

-They impress me.
-That's what it is.

-[Terrance] Yes.
-[chuckling] Yes.

We're gonna say,
"Did you abandon

-your 22-year-old daughter,"
right?
-[Michael] No.

That's... that's gonna
be the phrase to counter
that she's not a child,

"She's an adult,"
without using the phrase.

In terms of like,
an ideal jury,
I know it's hard to predict...

-[whistles]
-...but what are we
looking for?

People that like me.

-Um, and that's hard.
-[Vincent chuckles]

Uh, ideal jury?

I would want...

educated,
middle-class jurors.

So you're gonna have
a very conservative mix.

-You want to be
relatable to them.
-[Michael] Yes, sir.

Facial expression
and demeanor? Smile.

[Terrance] A little less.
There you go.

Don't overexpress yourself,
because it...

it can come off as weird,
or creepy, or detached.

So, as I'm sitting there,
facial expression-wise.

So obviously not a hap...
super happy smile. I'm not...

-[Terrance] No. No.
-Not happy to be in court.

Um, it's also not... [sighs]

-I'm not mad, I'm not upset.
-[Terrance] No.

It's just
the truth of the matter.

I'm an innocent person

-being reviewed
and judged, so...
-[Vincent] Right.

[Terrance] Yeah.
And, the elephant in the room,
you know,

-whether or not
Michael's taking the stand.
-[Vincent] Mmm-hmm.

[Terrance] All that's
gonna depend on what we need
to get out that's not there.

This is
the [bleep] Super Bowl.

Our goal is, we're gonna win.

-[Michael] You're gonna go
whoop somebody's ass.
-[Terrance chuckles]

[Michael] I know you got this.

-I love you, man.
-[Michael and Terrance laugh]

-[Terrance] All right.
-All right.

-See you tomorrow.
-Take it easy, Mike.

-Bye, fellas.
-All righty.

-See you tomorrow.
-[Michael] Bye, guys.

[Terrance] The one thing
I'd be worried about
with Mike?

He wears his heart
on his sleeve.

As lawyers,
it's the scariest time,
because it's like,

what if I [bleep],
what if I [bleep] up?

If he gets convicted
of this crime,

I have every expectation
he would have to do
prison time.

And in Indiana,
with a Level 3 felony,

he's looking at
16 years in prison.

So, as much as I gotta
be strong, and give
the rah-rah speech to him,

internally,
I'm [bleep] terrified.

Because I know
he's not the kind of guy

that could do well
if he had to go to prison.

The battle begins.