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- I went to a party, it
was like late, late 1982.
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There was local parties
in certain neighborhoods.
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They would have bands
play and charge whatever,
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five bucks to get in
and have a keg of beer
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and just come in
there and hang out
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and watch local band
play cover songs
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in the backyard
instead of in a bar
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and Chuck just
happened to be there
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and we just struck up
conversation coincidentally
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and had a lot of the
same musical influence
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and stuff like
that so me and Kam
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dropped out of
high school first,
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00:01:36,230 --> 00:01:37,663
pretty much the
same time then Chuck
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00:01:37,665 --> 00:01:39,548
dropped out a week or two later
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and then we pretty much
spent seven days a week
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in his garage.
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- Everybody heard
the music because when he
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started the band Mantas,
it started coming
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from the garage and
we were, my parents
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were trying to figure out ways
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to soundproof the garage
and everything else.
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00:02:02,756 --> 00:02:05,657
All the way up way
away you could hear,
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00:02:05,659 --> 00:02:07,793
actually you could
feel the vibrations,
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00:02:07,795 --> 00:02:09,728
the drums and stuff.
25
00:02:12,666 --> 00:02:15,134
- Chuck had a really
great infrastructure
26
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in terms of his, in
support from his mom, Jane,
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00:02:18,305 --> 00:02:21,306
and she allowed him
to follow his dream
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to be a musician no
matter where it took him.
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00:02:23,711 --> 00:02:26,445
Whether that meant
bailing him out of Canada
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00:02:26,447 --> 00:02:29,414
when things didn't work out
with the Slaughter lineup
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00:02:29,416 --> 00:02:31,583
and helping him get back home
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00:02:31,585 --> 00:02:33,719
or whether that meant
putting up people
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who were moving halfway
across the country
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to join his band
or jam with him.
35
00:02:37,725 --> 00:02:39,525
- They would pretty
much, there were times
36
00:02:39,527 --> 00:02:41,193
they would come over for dinner
37
00:02:41,195 --> 00:02:43,228
and it was always
a family dinner
38
00:02:43,230 --> 00:02:44,830
and mom would say
oh, what's going on?
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00:02:44,832 --> 00:02:46,431
Well where are you staying?
40
00:02:46,433 --> 00:02:48,267
Oh no, come stay with us.
41
00:02:48,269 --> 00:02:49,368
That kind of thing.
42
00:02:50,638 --> 00:02:53,572
- That was after my son
Frank had passed away
43
00:02:53,574 --> 00:02:55,607
so to me that was great.
44
00:02:55,609 --> 00:02:58,410
They were all about the
same age and it was great.
45
00:02:58,412 --> 00:03:00,279
They were wonderful,
wonderful kids.
46
00:03:01,415 --> 00:03:04,683
Now they're grown men
and all but back then.
47
00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:07,753
- She believed in
him as an artist
48
00:03:07,755 --> 00:03:10,322
and I think that
considering the art
49
00:03:10,324 --> 00:03:14,793
that he was writing and
performing at that time,
50
00:03:14,795 --> 00:03:16,628
that's a pretty
sizable leap of faith
51
00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:18,664
because I think most parents
52
00:03:18,666 --> 00:03:19,965
would just be like
what is this shit
53
00:03:19,967 --> 00:03:20,933
that you're doing?
54
00:03:21,969 --> 00:03:23,635
- It was never
like that with her.
55
00:03:23,637 --> 00:03:27,873
It was always complete
support and love for Chuck
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00:03:27,875 --> 00:03:29,841
and not to exclude
his dad as well.
57
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His dad probably tolerated it
58
00:03:32,780 --> 00:03:34,846
more than loved
what he was doing.
59
00:03:50,598 --> 00:03:51,930
- And we both had
a mutual friend
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00:03:51,932 --> 00:03:53,599
that went to school with me.
61
00:03:54,735 --> 00:03:56,468
One day he invited me
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00:03:56,470 --> 00:03:58,804
to come over to his house
and listen to some records.
63
00:03:58,806 --> 00:04:01,740
I went over to David's
house that afternoon
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00:04:01,742 --> 00:04:02,908
wearing my cutoff jean jacket
65
00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:05,711
and my Iron Maiden
shirt or whatever.
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00:04:05,713 --> 00:04:07,746
We each got an armful of albums
67
00:04:07,748 --> 00:04:09,781
and eventually Chuck came over
68
00:04:09,783 --> 00:04:11,717
and he's wearing his
cutoff jean jacket
69
00:04:11,719 --> 00:04:13,318
and we're all wearing
our cutoff jean jackets
70
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,287
so that was like
standard issue back then
71
00:04:15,289 --> 00:04:18,490
and on the back of
his cutoff jean jacket
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00:04:18,492 --> 00:04:20,325
he had this drawing
on the back of it
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00:04:20,327 --> 00:04:23,829
of this crazy evil
looking creature
74
00:04:23,831 --> 00:04:25,964
that said Mantas
across the top of it
75
00:04:25,966 --> 00:04:27,799
and then along the
bottom it said Florida's
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00:04:27,801 --> 00:04:29,635
original death metal band.
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00:04:29,637 --> 00:04:30,802
At that point I
hadn't heard Possessed
78
00:04:30,804 --> 00:04:32,437
but I asked him about it.
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00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:33,605
I'm like what's that
and he's like oh,
80
00:04:33,607 --> 00:04:35,274
that's my band Mantas.
81
00:04:35,276 --> 00:04:36,775
We're Florida's original
death metal band.
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00:04:36,777 --> 00:04:38,310
He said it just
like it was written
83
00:04:38,312 --> 00:04:40,812
across the bottom of the jacket
84
00:04:40,814 --> 00:04:42,914
and I was like cool,
death metal, right on.
85
00:04:42,916 --> 00:04:45,317
Haven't heard of that yet.
86
00:04:56,830 --> 00:05:00,432
- I was lucky and found
out about underground metal.
87
00:05:00,434 --> 00:05:02,768
Just by chance there
was a record shop
88
00:05:02,770 --> 00:05:04,903
that carried Metal Forces and I
89
00:05:04,905 --> 00:05:07,906
got the second issue
with Dio on the cover.
90
00:05:07,908 --> 00:05:09,374
You know the one.
91
00:05:09,376 --> 00:05:10,842
- You didn't have access
to this stuff otherwise.
92
00:05:10,844 --> 00:05:12,711
There was no other
way to get it.
93
00:05:12,713 --> 00:05:15,080
These records or these
recordings weren't in stores.
94
00:05:15,082 --> 00:05:16,748
They only really had
the major label stuff
95
00:05:16,750 --> 00:05:18,750
and maybe a couple of
independents, Metal Blade,
96
00:05:18,752 --> 00:05:20,385
the early Roadrunner stuff.
97
00:05:20,387 --> 00:05:22,921
Loudness and stuff but
there was way more out there
98
00:05:22,923 --> 00:05:26,858
and because of the groundwork
No Life Til Leather
99
00:05:26,860 --> 00:05:28,460
had created and this network
100
00:05:28,462 --> 00:05:31,596
that it had created
globally, you had a lot
101
00:05:31,598 --> 00:05:33,832
of hardcore fans.
102
00:05:33,834 --> 00:05:35,600
- And people would
have like catalogs
103
00:05:35,602 --> 00:05:37,102
of what all demos they owned.
104
00:05:38,038 --> 00:05:40,772
It could be a whole photo album
105
00:05:40,774 --> 00:05:44,576
full of just titles of
demos and live shows
106
00:05:44,578 --> 00:05:47,713
and stuff like that and just
fill up a 90 minute tape
107
00:05:47,715 --> 00:05:51,049
with however many demos or shows
you could squeeze on there.
108
00:05:51,051 --> 00:05:53,919
- And then go and scribble
out a track listing,
109
00:05:53,921 --> 00:05:58,023
find a package, get to a
post office and mail it,
110
00:05:58,025 --> 00:05:59,925
cross your fingers
that it got there
111
00:05:59,927 --> 00:06:02,861
and hope that whoever
you sent that tape to
112
00:06:02,863 --> 00:06:05,464
will be cool enough to
send you something back.
113
00:06:11,105 --> 00:06:13,705
- I didn't realize
until Frank the mailman
114
00:06:13,707 --> 00:06:16,441
said Jane, I'm a little
worried about Chuck
115
00:06:16,443 --> 00:06:17,376
and I said why.
116
00:06:17,378 --> 00:06:18,877
He said well, look at this.
117
00:06:18,879 --> 00:06:20,645
It was addressed
to Death and stuff
118
00:06:20,647 --> 00:06:24,149
and I said he's doing
all that in his room.
119
00:06:24,151 --> 00:06:27,052
- I remember that
Chuck in his bedroom
120
00:06:27,054 --> 00:06:28,920
had all of these
envelopes and he
121
00:06:28,922 --> 00:06:31,123
would be on the
phone and sometimes
122
00:06:31,125 --> 00:06:33,892
with really big phone
bills to my parents
123
00:06:33,894 --> 00:06:37,129
talking to people and
trading tapes back and forth.
124
00:06:37,131 --> 00:06:38,964
- So I thought that
was really cool
125
00:06:38,966 --> 00:06:41,099
that they were making their
own music and sharing it
126
00:06:41,101 --> 00:06:43,135
and spreading the
music and that's
127
00:06:43,137 --> 00:06:45,771
how a lot of these
bands became popular.
128
00:06:45,773 --> 00:06:47,105
- Be able to put a jam box down
129
00:06:47,107 --> 00:06:48,640
and hit record
with a tape player
130
00:06:48,642 --> 00:06:50,742
outside the garage with
a towel over top of it
131
00:06:50,744 --> 00:06:54,479
and it sounds okay to where
people can listen to it.
132
00:06:54,481 --> 00:06:56,081
- And they would play
for hours, practice
133
00:06:56,083 --> 00:06:59,584
for hours, all day
Saturday, all day Sunday.
134
00:06:59,586 --> 00:07:01,420
Basically you couldn't
go in your own house
135
00:07:01,422 --> 00:07:02,654
on Saturday and Sunday.
136
00:07:02,656 --> 00:07:05,457
- And one day he comes in,
137
00:07:05,459 --> 00:07:09,728
he had a box of cassettes
and they were Death cassettes
138
00:07:09,730 --> 00:07:12,764
and he had a stack of
t-shirts and he's like Freddy,
139
00:07:12,766 --> 00:07:13,932
would you mind?
140
00:07:13,934 --> 00:07:15,667
I wanna put my
music in your store.
141
00:07:15,669 --> 00:07:17,569
Would you mind selling
it, consign it?
142
00:07:17,571 --> 00:07:19,171
So I said yeah,
absolutely, I'd love to.
143
00:07:19,173 --> 00:07:22,874
This is like maybe
a day or two passed,
144
00:07:22,876 --> 00:07:24,910
I called Chuck and I'm like
Chuck, hey, it's Freddy
145
00:07:24,912 --> 00:07:27,512
and right away
he's like oh, dude,
146
00:07:27,514 --> 00:07:30,148
you don't wanna
carry my product.
147
00:07:30,150 --> 00:07:32,984
I said no, man, I sold
out of your cassette
148
00:07:32,986 --> 00:07:34,920
and the shirt.
149
00:07:45,065 --> 00:07:48,500
- So a friend of mine works
for a small radio station
150
00:07:48,502 --> 00:07:51,002
in our area and she
came up to me one day
151
00:07:51,004 --> 00:07:53,038
and said hey, this
guy is looking
152
00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,707
for new members for
his band called Death
153
00:07:55,709 --> 00:07:57,876
and I was just
thinking to myself
154
00:07:57,878 --> 00:07:59,945
there's no way
it's the same band
155
00:07:59,947 --> 00:08:02,614
or the same guy 'cause
I'm already into this
156
00:08:02,616 --> 00:08:04,516
so I said yeah, give
me the phone number.
157
00:08:04,518 --> 00:08:05,217
Let me call it.
158
00:08:11,758 --> 00:08:13,191
And talked on the phone.
159
00:08:13,193 --> 00:08:16,027
Try to feel things out.
160
00:08:16,029 --> 00:08:19,931
I was kind of worried because
I was only 17 at the time
161
00:08:19,933 --> 00:08:22,701
so I'm like yeah, I like
Artillery and I like Sodom,
162
00:08:22,703 --> 00:08:26,037
Slayer or whatever and
he played me some riffs.
163
00:08:26,039 --> 00:08:27,772
He's like yeah, let me
show you these riffs I got.
164
00:08:27,774 --> 00:08:30,041
It's this song called
Scream Bloody Gore.
165
00:08:30,043 --> 00:08:31,076
Well, that's a good title.
166
00:08:31,078 --> 00:08:32,077
It's to the point.
167
00:08:44,758 --> 00:08:47,926
I got the Sadus DTP
demo, Death To Posers.
168
00:08:47,928 --> 00:08:49,761
I'm like oh, okay,
a local band, cool
169
00:08:49,763 --> 00:08:51,930
and they're fucking badass.
170
00:08:51,932 --> 00:08:53,899
That tape is a screamer.
171
00:08:53,901 --> 00:08:56,001
- And the phone rings
and one of the guys
172
00:08:56,003 --> 00:08:57,068
says man, you're not
gonna believe this
173
00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:58,537
but there's a guy on the phone
174
00:08:58,539 --> 00:09:00,171
saying they play in
a band called Death.
175
00:09:01,942 --> 00:09:06,177
The name's not too serious
because it was too obvious.
176
00:09:07,314 --> 00:09:09,681
Well it was no big deal because
they said they got the demo
177
00:09:09,683 --> 00:09:12,617
and they liked it and
they wanted to hang out
178
00:09:12,619 --> 00:09:14,052
so like alright.
179
00:09:15,055 --> 00:09:17,556
Let's see what these
guys are all about.
180
00:09:17,558 --> 00:09:19,958
- The whole band Sadus
actually piled in a car
181
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,860
and they came over to my house.
182
00:09:21,862 --> 00:09:23,879
They just showed up.
183
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,897
- I met the band
Death which was two guys.
184
00:09:26,767 --> 00:09:29,968
A funny accented
guy from Florida
185
00:09:29,970 --> 00:09:33,605
and a young skinny dude that
was still in high school.
186
00:09:33,607 --> 00:09:36,141
- They all had
like matching denim vests
187
00:09:36,143 --> 00:09:38,877
or jackets and looked
like a fucking gang
188
00:09:38,879 --> 00:09:42,914
and we went and we hung out,
smoked joints or whatever.
189
00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:46,017
- And we were fans of Rush
and Maiden and everything.
190
00:09:46,019 --> 00:09:47,903
Everybody's got the big kit.
191
00:09:47,904 --> 00:09:49,788
During the day we would go
up to where they practiced
192
00:09:49,790 --> 00:09:52,624
and Chris has a big
shining white drum kit.
193
00:09:52,626 --> 00:09:55,827
John was looking at that
like man, that's great.
194
00:09:55,829 --> 00:09:57,629
Killer, you can do a
lot of stuff on that set
195
00:09:57,631 --> 00:09:59,264
and then when Death
would come over
196
00:09:59,266 --> 00:10:01,232
to our practice house
they were really
197
00:10:01,234 --> 00:10:04,269
digging our situation
and the room we had.
198
00:10:04,271 --> 00:10:06,171
The deal was made pretty easy.
199
00:10:06,173 --> 00:10:08,873
It's like Chris said
man, if you guys
200
00:10:08,875 --> 00:10:10,775
let us come here and practice
201
00:10:10,777 --> 00:10:12,310
I'll leave my kit set up.
202
00:10:12,312 --> 00:10:13,712
Told John you can play it.
203
00:10:13,714 --> 00:10:15,280
John was like oh wow, cool
204
00:10:15,282 --> 00:10:17,015
and they had all these new toys.
205
00:10:17,017 --> 00:10:19,284
- At that point,
Chuck was still living
206
00:10:19,286 --> 00:10:23,188
in Antioch with this lady
who was managing the band
207
00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:25,624
and she found this little studio
208
00:10:25,626 --> 00:10:28,693
and we rented a bass 'cause
we didn't own a bass.
209
00:10:28,695 --> 00:10:29,928
It was just me and him.
210
00:10:29,930 --> 00:10:32,097
We couldn't find band
members ironically.
211
00:10:32,099 --> 00:10:33,865
It wouldn't be
like that nowadays.
212
00:10:33,867 --> 00:10:36,334
I remember being super
happy with how it came out.
213
00:10:36,336 --> 00:10:38,303
It was pretty crushing.
214
00:10:48,982 --> 00:10:52,017
- It just evolved
out of five different demos
215
00:10:52,019 --> 00:10:56,087
until April of 86, we
recorded our fifth demo
216
00:10:56,089 --> 00:10:59,157
and we got signed finally
to Combat Records.
217
00:10:59,159 --> 00:11:01,726
- And originally they
had a series they did
218
00:11:01,728 --> 00:11:03,061
of bands that they
were kind of afraid
219
00:11:03,063 --> 00:11:06,097
to take a chance on where
they put out a record
220
00:11:06,099 --> 00:11:08,066
with a plain white sleeve
221
00:11:08,068 --> 00:11:11,670
and a camouflage
sticker on the record
222
00:11:11,672 --> 00:11:13,872
and that's what they
wanted to do, Combat,
223
00:11:13,874 --> 00:11:15,907
and somehow she talked
them into turning it
224
00:11:15,909 --> 00:11:19,144
into a proper record
deal and Combat
225
00:11:21,114 --> 00:11:23,715
trusted us to find a
studio to record in
226
00:11:23,717 --> 00:11:25,817
which turned out
to be a big mistake
227
00:11:25,819 --> 00:11:28,753
so what happened
was Chuck wanted
228
00:11:28,755 --> 00:11:32,323
to go back to Florida
and I actually went along
229
00:11:32,325 --> 00:11:35,126
and stayed for the summer of 86
230
00:11:35,128 --> 00:11:37,262
and we looked through
the phone book,
231
00:11:37,264 --> 00:11:39,130
okay, there's a
studio in Orlando
232
00:11:39,132 --> 00:11:42,067
and we talked to
a guy named Otto
233
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:44,135
and we were
explaining our vision.
234
00:11:44,137 --> 00:11:46,171
He just gave us the blank look
235
00:11:46,173 --> 00:11:48,273
like I have no idea what
you're talking about
236
00:11:48,275 --> 00:11:50,275
but I'll record your band.
237
00:11:50,277 --> 00:11:52,143
We might have just been
talking Klingon to him.
238
00:11:52,145 --> 00:11:53,344
It would have been
the same thing.
239
00:11:53,346 --> 00:11:55,113
So anyways, we start recording
240
00:11:55,115 --> 00:11:57,015
and I remember the first
thing that was weird
241
00:11:57,017 --> 00:11:59,317
is you know how you, you know,
242
00:11:59,319 --> 00:12:01,986
tone down drum heads
by putting pads
243
00:12:01,988 --> 00:12:03,855
with like tape on
'em or something,
244
00:12:03,857 --> 00:12:07,425
he stuck a fucking
Maxipad on my floor tom.
245
00:12:07,427 --> 00:12:09,761
I'm like I don't like this.
246
00:12:09,763 --> 00:12:11,012
That's not what I would do
247
00:12:11,013 --> 00:12:12,262
and now I have to
look at this thing
248
00:12:12,265 --> 00:12:14,499
every time I hit
the drum so fuck.
249
00:12:14,501 --> 00:12:17,836
So we got through
I think seven songs
250
00:12:17,838 --> 00:12:20,271
and Combat had a
listen and they said no
251
00:12:20,273 --> 00:12:22,207
so they just wrote
off that first session
252
00:12:22,209 --> 00:12:25,143
as a mistake and booked
time in Los Angeles
253
00:12:25,145 --> 00:12:28,146
with Randy Byrnes and
that was insane for us.
254
00:12:28,148 --> 00:12:31,216
Like yeah, we can work
with fucking Randy Byrnes.
255
00:12:31,218 --> 00:12:33,318
- The key to Scream
Bloody Gore
256
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,153
with Randy Byrnes.
257
00:12:35,155 --> 00:12:39,290
Randy had experience
recording heavy thrash
258
00:12:39,292 --> 00:12:42,961
so he was able to have
some kind of frame
259
00:12:42,963 --> 00:12:45,230
of reference and didn't
throw his arms up
260
00:12:45,232 --> 00:12:46,931
like what are you guys
trying to do here?
261
00:12:46,933 --> 00:12:48,533
It was like alright, this
is what you wanna do.
262
00:12:48,535 --> 00:12:49,934
Got it, let's do it.
263
00:12:49,936 --> 00:12:52,203
That made all the
difference in the world.
264
00:12:58,545 --> 00:13:02,213
♪ Now you're going to die ♪
265
00:13:15,529 --> 00:13:18,930
For what death metal
would be defined by,
266
00:13:18,932 --> 00:13:21,266
Scream Bloody Gore
is at ground zero
267
00:13:21,268 --> 00:13:22,467
because it was the first record
268
00:13:22,469 --> 00:13:25,203
that was released
on a record label
269
00:13:25,205 --> 00:13:26,371
that had a legitimate release
270
00:13:26,373 --> 00:13:28,206
because prior to
that you could not go
271
00:13:28,208 --> 00:13:31,209
into a record store and
buy a death metal record.
272
00:13:38,819 --> 00:13:39,884
- It didn't just come out.
273
00:13:39,886 --> 00:13:41,352
It kind of started.
274
00:13:41,354 --> 00:13:44,389
I know that people say
it was either Possessed,
275
00:13:44,391 --> 00:13:46,925
Seven Churches or Death,
Scream Bloody Gore
276
00:13:46,927 --> 00:13:48,493
but I listen to the performance
of Scream Bloody Gore
277
00:13:48,495 --> 00:13:50,295
in comparison to Possessed,
278
00:13:50,297 --> 00:13:52,964
I felt like Seven Churches
was kind of sloppy
279
00:13:52,966 --> 00:13:54,465
and then you hear
Scream Bloody Gore
280
00:13:54,467 --> 00:13:57,836
and it's tight and the songs
are really well produced
281
00:13:57,838 --> 00:13:58,870
and it sounds great.
282
00:14:09,482 --> 00:14:12,250
- We were sitting
in Chuck's apartment
283
00:14:12,252 --> 00:14:15,253
and the test pressings arrived
284
00:14:15,255 --> 00:14:17,121
with two pieces of
cardboard cut out
285
00:14:17,123 --> 00:14:18,289
with the vinyl in between it
286
00:14:18,291 --> 00:14:20,024
and I guess somewhere in transit
287
00:14:20,026 --> 00:14:22,093
the temperature got to
'em and they got warped.
288
00:14:22,095 --> 00:14:24,095
- I mean playable but warped.
289
00:14:26,299 --> 00:14:29,067
I thought it would
be a good idea
290
00:14:29,069 --> 00:14:32,503
to set the test
pressing out in the sun
291
00:14:32,505 --> 00:14:36,341
and let it become soft and
then kind of flatten it again.
292
00:14:36,343 --> 00:14:37,826
- And we're sitting
there, it's almost
293
00:14:37,827 --> 00:14:39,310
like waiting for a cake
to come out of the oven.
294
00:14:39,312 --> 00:14:41,312
Finally we just put
it on the turntable.
295
00:14:41,314 --> 00:14:42,480
I remember he put
the needle on it
296
00:14:42,482 --> 00:14:45,450
and the waves, the
lumps in the vinyl
297
00:14:45,452 --> 00:14:47,252
are going by and
the needle's flying.
298
00:14:47,254 --> 00:14:49,354
A couple times it got
thrown off the record.
299
00:14:49,356 --> 00:14:52,290
- It just turned
into this thing.
300
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,293
and it was completely
unplayable then.
301
00:14:55,295 --> 00:14:57,295
- That was a major thing.
302
00:14:57,297 --> 00:15:00,098
I'm on vinyl.
303
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:02,300
I'm 18, this is
an accomplishment.
304
00:15:02,302 --> 00:15:03,968
- And I think they
only gave us one
305
00:15:03,970 --> 00:15:05,403
because Chuck was living with me
306
00:15:05,405 --> 00:15:06,671
and I fucking ruined it.
307
00:15:16,049 --> 00:15:17,582
- Steve
did learn the set
308
00:15:17,584 --> 00:15:20,652
and we jammed with him
in the Sadus jam room.
309
00:15:20,654 --> 00:15:22,120
- And we
had plans for shows.
310
00:15:22,122 --> 00:15:24,055
We even were starting
to draw the flyers
311
00:15:24,057 --> 00:15:25,590
with the Death and Sadus logo.
312
00:15:25,592 --> 00:15:27,325
- We had the set ready
to go and all that
313
00:15:27,327 --> 00:15:28,593
and then Chuck
said hey, I'm gonna
314
00:15:28,595 --> 00:15:31,329
go back to Florida
and visit my folks
315
00:15:31,331 --> 00:15:33,364
and whatever, go
home for a while,
316
00:15:33,366 --> 00:15:35,433
and so some time went by.
317
00:15:35,435 --> 00:15:36,534
Well actually I
think quite a bit
318
00:15:36,536 --> 00:15:38,236
of time went by,
like a few months
319
00:15:38,238 --> 00:15:41,439
because I filled in with
a band called Desecration
320
00:15:41,441 --> 00:15:44,042
for a while 'cause I
didn't wanna get involved
321
00:15:44,044 --> 00:15:45,977
in another full time
band 'cause as far
322
00:15:45,979 --> 00:15:48,212
as I was concerned I
could be in Death still
323
00:15:48,214 --> 00:15:50,048
and then Chuck
finally said hey dude,
324
00:15:50,050 --> 00:15:51,316
I'm here to stay.
325
00:15:51,318 --> 00:15:53,151
I don't wanna come
back to California
326
00:15:54,087 --> 00:15:57,088
and so I was bummed.
327
00:15:57,090 --> 00:16:00,558
I'm like oh, that
sucks but okay.
328
00:16:01,461 --> 00:16:03,461
He's like well, if you
wanna come move out here
329
00:16:03,463 --> 00:16:05,730
we'll just keep on it and
get some other members
330
00:16:05,732 --> 00:16:09,467
and just keep moving forward.
331
00:16:12,505 --> 00:16:15,206
- Massacre did a
tour of the east coast.
332
00:16:15,208 --> 00:16:17,375
We came home from
that tour and--
333
00:16:17,377 --> 00:16:19,477
- We were supposed open
for Megadeth and Overkill
334
00:16:19,479 --> 00:16:22,313
at the armory in Tampa
and we got to the show
335
00:16:22,315 --> 00:16:25,083
and we're told we
weren't gonna play.
336
00:16:25,085 --> 00:16:26,684
- Megadeth's management had
one of their other bands
337
00:16:26,686 --> 00:16:29,487
come in, Massacre was
kicked off the bill.
338
00:16:29,489 --> 00:16:32,490
Well at that same show some guy
339
00:16:32,492 --> 00:16:35,460
came up to Rick, said
hey, Chuck's in town.
340
00:16:35,462 --> 00:16:38,463
He moved back to Orlando.
341
00:16:38,464 --> 00:16:41,465
So a few days after that Rick,
he went to Chuck's house.
342
00:16:41,468 --> 00:16:42,500
- Without calling
him or anything
343
00:16:42,502 --> 00:16:44,102
showed up at the guy's house.
344
00:16:44,104 --> 00:16:46,137
He doesn't have a
freaking clue why I'm here
345
00:16:46,139 --> 00:16:49,540
so I just said hey, man,
this is what's going on.
346
00:16:49,542 --> 00:16:51,576
If you have any
interest give me a call.
347
00:16:51,578 --> 00:16:54,045
So he called me
the next day and I
348
00:16:54,047 --> 00:16:56,347
called Bill and Terry and
they were really excited.
349
00:16:56,349 --> 00:16:59,117
- We learned a few songs and
we got together and jammed.
350
00:16:59,119 --> 00:17:00,518
It had been literally
three or four weeks
351
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,253
that we were together.
352
00:17:02,255 --> 00:17:04,422
The first show was at
Milwaukee Metal Fest.
353
00:17:04,424 --> 00:17:06,491
I remember actually
on the flight
354
00:17:06,493 --> 00:17:09,227
going to Milwaukee
going over each song
355
00:17:10,597 --> 00:17:14,032
because that's how fresh
the songs were in my mind.
356
00:17:28,681 --> 00:17:30,381
- The United States back then,
357
00:17:30,383 --> 00:17:33,284
they really didn't have
these three day festivals
358
00:17:33,286 --> 00:17:35,620
and Death was one of
the bands on there
359
00:17:35,622 --> 00:17:38,322
and they were I guess somewhere
360
00:17:38,324 --> 00:17:40,358
like in the afternoon.
361
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:41,759
- I remember being
in the McDonald's
362
00:17:41,761 --> 00:17:43,628
next door to the
Eagles Auditorium
363
00:17:43,630 --> 00:17:45,296
which was where
this place was at
364
00:17:45,298 --> 00:17:47,832
and these kids were talking
about the Mutilation demo.
365
00:17:47,834 --> 00:17:49,534
These kids, they
were just normal kids
366
00:17:49,536 --> 00:17:51,202
just like me and they were like,
367
00:17:51,204 --> 00:17:52,504
they couldn't wait to see Death
368
00:17:52,505 --> 00:17:53,805
and they were talking
about the Mutilation demo.
369
00:17:53,807 --> 00:17:55,506
- Jack had been in
contact with someone
370
00:17:55,508 --> 00:17:57,842
at Combat who said
we have this new act
371
00:17:57,844 --> 00:18:00,211
and their record had only
been out a short time.
372
00:18:00,213 --> 00:18:03,481
I heard the record
literally just one
373
00:18:03,483 --> 00:18:06,250
or two songs and didn't
pay much attention to it
374
00:18:06,252 --> 00:18:08,553
so I stood in front of the stage
375
00:18:08,555 --> 00:18:11,422
and I watched all these
other standard thrash
376
00:18:11,424 --> 00:18:14,125
and metal bands play
377
00:18:14,127 --> 00:18:15,393
and then when Death came on
378
00:18:15,395 --> 00:18:17,829
there was sort of
an anticipation.
379
00:18:17,831 --> 00:18:19,197
- And I remember
when Death played,
380
00:18:19,199 --> 00:18:20,465
one thing I remember about Chuck
381
00:18:20,467 --> 00:18:22,633
was just he would
kind of stand kind
382
00:18:22,635 --> 00:18:24,735
of stiff, kind of
still and when he'd
383
00:18:24,737 --> 00:18:26,337
open his mouth for one
of this big screams
384
00:18:26,339 --> 00:18:27,572
his tongue would
stick out a little bit
385
00:18:27,574 --> 00:18:30,274
and he'd just omit this like--
386
00:18:41,488 --> 00:18:43,788
- So I was back
stage meeting people,
387
00:18:43,790 --> 00:18:45,690
talking to people
and I eventually
388
00:18:45,692 --> 00:18:47,525
made my way over and
introduced myself,
389
00:18:47,527 --> 00:18:49,660
said my name is Eric Greif,
390
00:18:49,662 --> 00:18:51,696
I'm a manager promoter dude
391
00:18:51,698 --> 00:18:53,698
and I live here in Milwaukee.
392
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:55,366
He had a card that
said Death on it
393
00:18:55,368 --> 00:18:59,137
and had an address
for giving out
394
00:18:59,139 --> 00:19:01,239
to people that he
tape traded with
395
00:19:01,241 --> 00:19:05,476
and I got in contact with him
396
00:19:05,478 --> 00:19:07,345
and that was like
their first real tour
397
00:19:07,347 --> 00:19:08,880
where they came up that far,
398
00:19:08,882 --> 00:19:11,549
had played shows on the
way in, on the way back.
399
00:19:13,686 --> 00:19:15,620
- Started rehearsing
more and more
400
00:19:15,622 --> 00:19:17,588
after that Milwaukee Metal Fest
401
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:18,856
and when word came down that we
402
00:19:18,858 --> 00:19:20,424
had a tour lined up we'd already
403
00:19:20,426 --> 00:19:22,660
started writing
new songs and Chuck
404
00:19:22,662 --> 00:19:24,495
was presenting the
songs at practice.
405
00:19:24,497 --> 00:19:26,330
Hey, check out these riffs.
406
00:19:26,332 --> 00:19:27,565
A couple of songs
Chuck had already
407
00:19:27,567 --> 00:19:31,502
completely mapped out,
had 'em already written.
408
00:19:31,504 --> 00:19:33,671
He would just play and Bill
would put beats to 'em.
409
00:19:33,673 --> 00:19:35,840
We actually started
playing a few
410
00:19:35,842 --> 00:19:40,478
of the songs from Leprosy on
the Scream Bloody Gore tour
411
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,581
we did, we'd already had
two or three of those songs.
412
00:19:50,757 --> 00:19:53,457
- I got a call from Dan saying
I got this record to do.
413
00:19:53,459 --> 00:19:55,593
They call it death metal,
it's the band Death
414
00:19:55,595 --> 00:19:58,262
and Scott, your assistant,
he'd do the record with me
415
00:19:58,264 --> 00:19:59,597
'cause I always worked with Dan
416
00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:01,332
with Savatage and
stuff like that
417
00:20:01,334 --> 00:20:03,467
and then I also went and Scott
418
00:20:03,469 --> 00:20:05,736
asked me, you help me
set the mix up right
419
00:20:05,738 --> 00:20:07,905
so I went in and started the mix
420
00:20:07,907 --> 00:20:09,473
but for me, Chuck
and I were just
421
00:20:09,475 --> 00:20:11,242
telling jokes to each
other while I was doing it,
422
00:20:11,244 --> 00:20:12,710
then Scott had to do
all the hard work.
423
00:20:12,712 --> 00:20:15,446
- And when I heard the
final mix at the time,
424
00:20:15,448 --> 00:20:17,248
I heard, I thought
it was amazing.
425
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:18,749
Now when I listen back to it
426
00:20:18,751 --> 00:20:21,285
the drums are a hair loud,
blah blah blah, whatever
427
00:20:21,287 --> 00:20:22,720
but I thought at the time it
428
00:20:22,722 --> 00:20:24,822
was just the most amazing
thing I'd ever heard in my life
429
00:20:24,824 --> 00:20:26,958
but it was my first
time in a studio.
430
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,426
It was all new to me.
431
00:20:28,428 --> 00:20:29,727
The other guys had
been to the studio
432
00:20:29,729 --> 00:20:31,729
recording an album or demos.
433
00:20:32,999 --> 00:20:34,765
I had Scott Byrnes
staring at me.
434
00:20:34,767 --> 00:20:37,568
Rick, Chuck, Bill looking at me.
435
00:20:37,570 --> 00:20:38,436
The producer looking at me.
436
00:20:38,438 --> 00:20:39,937
It's like come on.
437
00:20:41,574 --> 00:20:43,507
- He was a nervous wreck.
438
00:20:43,509 --> 00:20:44,675
It's not like he
can't play the songs.
439
00:20:44,677 --> 00:20:46,644
He played 'em on tour.
440
00:20:49,682 --> 00:20:50,648
Play 'em at rehearsal.
441
00:20:50,649 --> 00:20:51,615
- I was kind of thrown
in the fire on that
442
00:20:52,752 --> 00:20:54,952
and I basically had
an anxiety attack,
443
00:20:54,954 --> 00:20:56,454
panic attack at the studio
444
00:20:56,456 --> 00:20:58,689
so I just asked Chuck, hey dude,
445
00:20:58,691 --> 00:21:02,393
to save time and money
can you do the bass
446
00:21:02,395 --> 00:21:04,428
and at the time there
was no problem at all.
447
00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:05,997
Nothing was even
said about it really.
448
00:21:05,999 --> 00:21:07,431
Chuck's like yeah dude.
449
00:21:07,433 --> 00:21:08,599
I did the bass on
Scream Bloody Gore.
450
00:21:08,601 --> 00:21:09,834
It's no problem.
451
00:21:18,044 --> 00:21:20,678
- I was living in the
dorms at the time,
452
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,913
University of Iowa,
and my roommate
453
00:21:22,915 --> 00:21:25,683
and my dorm partners,
the other guys
454
00:21:25,685 --> 00:21:27,852
who lived in the
hall, pretty used
455
00:21:27,854 --> 00:21:30,755
to the metal that I
would play fairly loudly
456
00:21:30,757 --> 00:21:32,456
at the time throughout the day
457
00:21:32,458 --> 00:21:33,691
and I remember getting Leprosy
458
00:21:33,693 --> 00:21:35,593
and playing it full blast
459
00:21:35,595 --> 00:21:37,595
and just it made people aghast.
460
00:21:37,597 --> 00:21:38,529
What is this music?
461
00:21:38,531 --> 00:21:40,731
It just was so obscene to ears
462
00:21:40,733 --> 00:21:42,600
that had never heard
anything like it.
463
00:21:59,719 --> 00:22:01,786
- What really kind of hit in 88
464
00:22:01,788 --> 00:22:03,788
is the grindcore movement.
465
00:22:03,790 --> 00:22:06,424
Like Napalm Death released
their second record,
466
00:22:06,426 --> 00:22:08,559
Carcass releases
their first record.
467
00:22:08,561 --> 00:22:12,596
Earache continues to grow
and crank out records.
468
00:22:12,598 --> 00:22:13,898
- All that stuff was
starting to bubble
469
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:15,533
in the underground.
470
00:22:15,535 --> 00:22:18,469
So Leprosy came in and seemed
to have a few more peers
471
00:22:18,471 --> 00:22:22,340
in its weird little
extreme world.
472
00:22:22,342 --> 00:22:23,541
Productions were
getting slicker.
473
00:22:23,543 --> 00:22:24,775
Slayer had South of Heaven.
474
00:22:24,777 --> 00:22:26,911
Metallica came out
with Injustice For All.
475
00:22:26,913 --> 00:22:28,379
Voivod were maturing.
476
00:22:28,381 --> 00:22:29,847
First Sanctuary album.
477
00:22:29,849 --> 00:22:31,549
Fates Warning No Exit came out.
478
00:22:31,551 --> 00:22:32,917
That was a pretty big
album at the time.
479
00:22:32,919 --> 00:22:34,352
They're very dry.
480
00:22:34,354 --> 00:22:36,921
They're very sort
of clean albums.
481
00:22:36,923 --> 00:22:41,058
Leprosy was still just
total ferocity and brutality
482
00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:44,362
and dirt but yet it was
being conveyed really well,
483
00:22:44,364 --> 00:22:45,996
the recording was really great.
484
00:22:47,133 --> 00:22:50,701
- When he was writing
he had hooks in mind.
485
00:22:50,703 --> 00:22:54,739
Even as early back as Pull
the Plug or Born Dead.
486
00:22:54,741 --> 00:22:58,376
Remember the vocals,
you remember the riff
487
00:22:58,378 --> 00:23:00,044
but you remember the hook.
488
00:23:00,046 --> 00:23:01,812
There were choruses
in those songs
489
00:23:01,814 --> 00:23:04,882
that people came back to
and at the end of the day
490
00:23:04,884 --> 00:23:07,017
in spite of all the
early brutality,
491
00:23:07,019 --> 00:23:09,820
in spite of all the
later progressiveness
492
00:23:09,822 --> 00:23:13,491
I think at its core he just
wanted to write good songs.
493
00:23:13,493 --> 00:23:18,429
- It was just super heavy but
also technical but catchy.
494
00:23:18,431 --> 00:23:21,866
It was memorable and I
think that's what Chuck
495
00:23:21,868 --> 00:23:24,502
took from all of the
bands that he admired
496
00:23:24,504 --> 00:23:27,805
is lot of these bands that
he really looked up to
497
00:23:27,807 --> 00:23:30,741
and loved to listen to, they
just wrote really good songs
498
00:23:30,743 --> 00:23:33,744
and really catchy songs and you
499
00:23:33,746 --> 00:23:35,546
can be the heaviest
band in the world
500
00:23:35,548 --> 00:23:36,914
but you can still write a hook
501
00:23:36,916 --> 00:23:38,949
and write a catchy song.
502
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,873
- 'Cause we didn't have a
booking agent at the time.
503
00:24:02,875 --> 00:24:04,575
Scott, who was a
good friend of ours
504
00:24:04,577 --> 00:24:05,943
that actually
worked at the label
505
00:24:05,945 --> 00:24:08,913
and he's like hey, there's
a tour if you want it.
506
00:24:08,915 --> 00:24:10,748
It's you guys and Dark Angel.
507
00:24:10,750 --> 00:24:13,184
- So two of the five acts
that were in the video
508
00:24:13,186 --> 00:24:14,919
would tour together
and it sounded
509
00:24:14,921 --> 00:24:16,921
like a great idea on paper.
510
00:24:16,923 --> 00:24:21,559
- Combat, our record label,
they mentioned to Death,
511
00:24:21,561 --> 00:24:24,862
to Chuck or somebody,
that it's equal billing
512
00:24:24,864 --> 00:24:29,834
meaning that in the
ads, on the posters,
513
00:24:29,836 --> 00:24:31,669
on the gig fliers, you're
gonna have Dark Angel
514
00:24:31,671 --> 00:24:33,070
and you're gonna have
Death right next to it.
515
00:24:33,072 --> 00:24:34,572
Equal billing.
516
00:24:34,574 --> 00:24:37,041
That does not mean
co-headlining.
517
00:24:39,011 --> 00:24:40,811
We started butting
heads over it.
518
00:24:46,619 --> 00:24:47,952
- The wording was
just simply that Death
519
00:24:47,954 --> 00:24:49,987
would be billed at
the same percentage
520
00:24:49,989 --> 00:24:52,122
of space or whatever.
521
00:24:52,124 --> 00:24:54,058
Clearly Dark Angel
was more well known
522
00:24:54,060 --> 00:24:58,028
than Death and had an album
out more than Death did.
523
00:24:58,030 --> 00:25:01,265
It was implied that Dark Angel
really was the headliner.
524
00:25:01,267 --> 00:25:03,501
- You know, to me
I'm like whatever.
525
00:25:03,503 --> 00:25:05,669
We're on tour
promoting our album.
526
00:25:05,671 --> 00:25:08,038
Sure enough, somewhere
around Milwaukee
527
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,208
or Utah or somewhere,
that was it.
528
00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:15,112
- I just remember an
incident over drum risers
529
00:25:15,114 --> 00:25:17,615
and they wanted Bill
to set up in front
530
00:25:17,617 --> 00:25:20,184
of the riser and Gene
to set up on the riser
531
00:25:20,186 --> 00:25:22,019
and everyone was
rolling their eyes.
532
00:25:22,021 --> 00:25:26,257
- His demands were starting
to get rather cockamamie.
533
00:25:26,259 --> 00:25:29,960
When Chuck, probably
for the 10th time,
534
00:25:29,962 --> 00:25:31,879
said we're leaving the tour,
535
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,797
this time our tour
manager said go ahead.
536
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:35,900
If you don't wanna be here
we don't wanna keep you here.
537
00:25:35,902 --> 00:25:38,769
- So they turned around
from wherever they were,
538
00:25:39,839 --> 00:25:43,007
Buttville, Montana,
whatever, and went home.
539
00:25:50,583 --> 00:25:52,049
- Again, first time in Europe
540
00:25:52,051 --> 00:25:56,287
which seemed like we all
wanted to go to Europe so bad
541
00:25:56,289 --> 00:25:58,055
and we got there,
just seemed like
542
00:25:58,057 --> 00:25:59,924
it was just an
alien world to us.
543
00:25:59,926 --> 00:26:00,958
Equipment was in one van.
544
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,593
We were in another
van traveling.
545
00:26:02,595 --> 00:26:06,130
- I think the van was driven
by the promoter's wife
546
00:26:06,132 --> 00:26:07,698
and he would just
get on the phone
547
00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:11,268
and be like I'm gonna die.
548
00:26:11,270 --> 00:26:13,037
- We got hotels every
night which whatever,
549
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:15,172
we were sleeping,
there was no problem
550
00:26:15,174 --> 00:26:18,976
but after about halfway
through that tour,
551
00:26:18,978 --> 00:26:20,978
again, Chuck's like
I've had enough of this
552
00:26:20,980 --> 00:26:23,981
so we quit the
tour and came home.
553
00:26:24,984 --> 00:26:28,152
- Yeah, that was
kind of the pattern
554
00:26:28,154 --> 00:26:30,054
was when I was in
Milwaukee trying
555
00:26:30,056 --> 00:26:32,156
to run things for
Death in my office
556
00:26:33,926 --> 00:26:35,993
a lot of the time I
felt like I needed
557
00:26:35,995 --> 00:26:37,661
to physically be there.
558
00:26:39,699 --> 00:26:41,966
- They would rehearse
in Chuck's mom's garage
559
00:26:41,968 --> 00:26:43,734
in Altamont Springs
and that was three
560
00:26:43,736 --> 00:26:45,169
and a half hour drive.
561
00:26:45,171 --> 00:26:49,106
We would load into my
Wagoneer and go to his house,
562
00:26:49,108 --> 00:26:50,808
watch the band rehearse.
563
00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:52,876
- Right until then,
before Rick was released
564
00:26:52,878 --> 00:26:54,745
from the band we
actually started working
565
00:26:54,747 --> 00:26:57,114
on one of the songs that
was on Spiritual Healing,
566
00:26:57,116 --> 00:26:58,949
I think it may have been
the song Spiritual Healing.
567
00:26:58,951 --> 00:27:01,118
- Legion of Doom, which
was one of our first songs,
568
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,921
other than we had a
song called Mantas,
569
00:27:03,923 --> 00:27:07,291
Legion of Doom riff was
on Spiritual Healing.
570
00:27:22,108 --> 00:27:25,175
- I was on the road
coming from New York
571
00:27:25,177 --> 00:27:27,144
heading back to Milwaukee
572
00:27:27,146 --> 00:27:29,113
but I didn't go the
normal way that I would
573
00:27:29,115 --> 00:27:31,281
which was south
of the great lakes
574
00:27:31,283 --> 00:27:34,051
and straight across
on the interstate,
575
00:27:34,053 --> 00:27:36,020
I actually went through Toronto
576
00:27:36,022 --> 00:27:39,289
because I wanted to go
to the Relativity office
577
00:27:39,291 --> 00:27:43,160
and it was in Toronto
that I was at a payphone
578
00:27:43,162 --> 00:27:44,662
and talked to Chuck and Chuck
579
00:27:44,664 --> 00:27:46,230
said I've been thinking about it
580
00:27:46,232 --> 00:27:51,101
and I wanna get rid of Rick
and so I phoned Rick right away
581
00:27:51,103 --> 00:27:52,436
from that same phone.
582
00:27:52,438 --> 00:27:53,771
- Eric had given me a call.
583
00:27:53,773 --> 00:27:55,272
I was in New Jersey at the time.
584
00:27:59,111 --> 00:28:01,195
Chuck called me
first and asked me
585
00:28:01,196 --> 00:28:03,280
if I had my guitar and
I lied and I said yes
586
00:28:03,282 --> 00:28:05,849
but I didn't because I knew
why he was asking me that.
587
00:28:05,851 --> 00:28:08,819
I'm out, hanging out, I'm not
practicing, this and that.
588
00:28:08,821 --> 00:28:11,255
- Rick was very gentlemanly.
589
00:28:11,257 --> 00:28:14,692
It was almost as if he knew
the call was gonna come.
590
00:28:14,694 --> 00:28:17,161
Now I don't know if
he sensed that Chuck
591
00:28:17,163 --> 00:28:18,462
was going in a new direction.
592
00:28:18,464 --> 00:28:20,130
- I assumed that's
why I was let go
593
00:28:20,132 --> 00:28:22,299
'cause I know he was looking
to broaden his horizons
594
00:28:22,301 --> 00:28:25,235
and it was his
thing so I have no,
595
00:28:25,237 --> 00:28:26,904
I'm not gonna fight the guy.
596
00:28:26,906 --> 00:28:28,472
It's not gonna help me stay
in the band any better.
597
00:28:28,474 --> 00:28:32,743
- For Chuck, I think his
vision was always evolving
598
00:28:32,745 --> 00:28:36,046
and part of the problem
was that the people
599
00:28:36,048 --> 00:28:40,284
that he needed to
execute it at one point
600
00:28:40,286 --> 00:28:43,120
in the band aren't
the same people
601
00:28:43,122 --> 00:28:44,755
that he needs to
execute that vision
602
00:28:44,757 --> 00:28:46,290
at another point in the band.
603
00:28:58,003 --> 00:29:01,305
- And so we had
this tour of Mexico
604
00:29:01,307 --> 00:29:03,140
that we had to do and we were
605
00:29:03,142 --> 00:29:05,142
without a second guitar player.
606
00:29:05,144 --> 00:29:07,377
- So we had been going up there
607
00:29:07,379 --> 00:29:09,246
so there was this
kind of relationship
608
00:29:09,248 --> 00:29:11,148
and he knew we had
a certain ability
609
00:29:11,150 --> 00:29:12,450
on our instruments.
610
00:29:12,451 --> 00:29:13,751
He could see that
we were very serious
611
00:29:13,753 --> 00:29:15,986
about practicing our
instruments and getting better
612
00:29:15,988 --> 00:29:18,789
and so Paul was the first call
613
00:29:18,791 --> 00:29:20,290
when they were having problems.
614
00:29:26,265 --> 00:29:28,232
- I met Paul and he
had to learn the songs
615
00:29:28,234 --> 00:29:29,967
and all of that.
616
00:29:29,969 --> 00:29:31,468
I sat next to him on the plane
617
00:29:32,805 --> 00:29:35,506
going to Mexico City
and the entire time
618
00:29:35,508 --> 00:29:37,341
I was trying to convince
him to join Death
619
00:29:37,343 --> 00:29:38,375
but he would not do it.
620
00:29:38,377 --> 00:29:39,309
He said no.
621
00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:41,512
He said I've got Cynic.
622
00:29:41,514 --> 00:29:42,546
I had to respect that.
623
00:29:42,548 --> 00:29:44,481
I just had to finally give up
624
00:29:44,483 --> 00:29:46,483
and then when we
had the pandemonium
625
00:29:46,485 --> 00:29:50,354
at the tour of kind
of death mania,
626
00:29:50,356 --> 00:29:51,956
I would have thought
that that would
627
00:29:51,957 --> 00:29:53,557
have been enough for anybody
to wanna join the band
628
00:29:53,559 --> 00:29:56,293
and he had a record deal,
he would have just walked in
629
00:29:56,295 --> 00:29:58,162
but he just said no.
630
00:29:59,265 --> 00:30:00,898
We had to go to plan B.
631
00:30:12,244 --> 00:30:15,012
- I had met
James at a club in Tampa
632
00:30:15,014 --> 00:30:19,249
so when time came to try to
look for another guitar player
633
00:30:19,251 --> 00:30:20,250
I recommended James.
634
00:30:20,252 --> 00:30:21,485
I knew he was a shredder.
635
00:30:21,487 --> 00:30:25,823
- James has a very
keen sense of melody
636
00:30:25,825 --> 00:30:27,291
in terms of guitar solos.
637
00:30:27,293 --> 00:30:29,627
There really wasn't anybody else
638
00:30:29,628 --> 00:30:31,962
who played like James on death
metal records to that point.
639
00:30:31,964 --> 00:30:35,999
He just had like this great feel
640
00:30:36,001 --> 00:30:37,868
for how a solo should be.
641
00:30:37,870 --> 00:30:39,503
- And it really
worked for where Death
642
00:30:39,505 --> 00:30:42,139
was going with the new material.
643
00:30:42,141 --> 00:30:45,209
So this was the right guy to
bring on at the right time.
644
00:30:56,255 --> 00:30:58,989
- The first taste
of Death that I got
645
00:30:58,991 --> 00:31:01,291
would have been 1990, it would
have been Spiritual Healing.
646
00:31:01,293 --> 00:31:05,229
I was 15 then and I was
a fan of heavy metal.
647
00:31:05,231 --> 00:31:07,364
I liked stuff like
Metallica or Iron Maiden
648
00:31:07,366 --> 00:31:10,334
or Def Leppard or whatever
and I had a friend of mine
649
00:31:10,336 --> 00:31:13,036
who was infinitely more
adventurous than I was
650
00:31:13,038 --> 00:31:16,306
and he acquired
Spiritual Healing
651
00:31:16,308 --> 00:31:19,910
and Beneath the Remains and
he basically played them
652
00:31:19,912 --> 00:31:22,112
for me and I recoiled in horror.
653
00:31:22,114 --> 00:31:23,513
I was just like I
don't know how anybody
654
00:31:23,515 --> 00:31:24,348
can be into this.
655
00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:26,283
This is crazy.
656
00:31:26,285 --> 00:31:28,218
You really like this?
657
00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:33,090
And so I retreated to
Injustice for All or whatever.
658
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:40,264
♪ Altering the future ♪
659
00:31:45,404 --> 00:31:48,272
- And Spiritual Healing was
just a little bit less heralded
660
00:31:48,274 --> 00:31:50,207
because it was the third one.
661
00:31:50,209 --> 00:31:51,475
It wasn't anything new anymore
662
00:31:51,477 --> 00:31:54,411
yet he was still taking
it into new areas.
663
00:31:54,413 --> 00:31:57,314
It was just as
powerful, I think,
664
00:31:57,316 --> 00:31:59,316
as the first two
albums lyrically
665
00:31:59,318 --> 00:32:02,319
because it was horror
but it was real horror.
666
00:32:02,321 --> 00:32:03,553
It was stuff that was
actually happening
667
00:32:03,555 --> 00:32:05,989
and these awful things.
668
00:32:05,991 --> 00:32:09,426
- Death is a band that I
can put my personal outlook
669
00:32:09,428 --> 00:32:11,695
on certain things in life into
670
00:32:11,697 --> 00:32:13,363
and I think it means a lot more
671
00:32:13,365 --> 00:32:14,665
when you're singing about
something other people
672
00:32:14,667 --> 00:32:15,933
can relate to.
673
00:32:15,935 --> 00:32:17,367
That's why you don't hear Death
674
00:32:17,369 --> 00:32:20,971
singing about demons flying down
675
00:32:20,973 --> 00:32:24,474
and plucking nuns
from the Earth.
676
00:32:24,476 --> 00:32:26,360
That's idiotic.
677
00:32:26,361 --> 00:32:28,245
That's putting a
limit on people's--
678
00:32:28,247 --> 00:32:30,414
- So I think Pull the Plug
might have been the gateway
679
00:32:30,416 --> 00:32:32,516
to what happened on
Spiritual Healing
680
00:32:32,518 --> 00:32:33,951
because Pull the
Plug you can look at
681
00:32:33,953 --> 00:32:37,654
as maybe him wondering
about assisted suicide
682
00:32:37,656 --> 00:32:41,558
or being kept alive artificially
683
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,494
and that obviously has
real life connotations.
684
00:32:45,664 --> 00:32:47,431
♪ A way to freedom ♪
685
00:32:47,433 --> 00:32:52,235
♪ People are stupid
enough to believe it ♪
686
00:32:58,077 --> 00:33:00,978
- James and Chuck
started clashing a bit.
687
00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:03,013
I think it was just
egos a little bit.
688
00:33:03,015 --> 00:33:04,448
James is a good friend of mine
689
00:33:04,450 --> 00:33:07,985
but he was a bit
quirky and at times
690
00:33:07,987 --> 00:33:10,053
it might rub people raw.
691
00:33:10,055 --> 00:33:11,521
It had been building up
between him and Chuck
692
00:33:14,626 --> 00:33:15,942
that whole tour.
693
00:33:15,943 --> 00:33:17,259
Chuck just snapped
and said that's it.
694
00:33:17,262 --> 00:33:18,662
You're out of the band.
695
00:33:18,664 --> 00:33:21,298
Unfortunately James rode home
696
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:23,400
with one of the opening
bands that was stationed,
697
00:33:23,402 --> 00:33:24,634
they stayed with
us the whole time.
698
00:33:24,636 --> 00:33:27,504
We didn't fly home,
we stayed on the tour.
699
00:33:27,506 --> 00:33:30,607
We came home for a couple months
700
00:33:31,744 --> 00:33:35,278
and we actually started
writing songs for Human
701
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,580
and we were to go Europe.
702
00:33:36,582 --> 00:33:38,415
Walt
was our sound man.
703
00:33:38,417 --> 00:33:40,517
We'd been doing it for
years, he'd run sound for us.
704
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:41,518
Call him up, said hey.
705
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,420
We're fixing to do a tour.
706
00:33:43,422 --> 00:33:45,422
We need a lead guitar player.
707
00:33:45,424 --> 00:33:47,374
Are you interested?
708
00:33:47,375 --> 00:33:49,325
He said yes so Walt
drove from Texas,
709
00:33:49,328 --> 00:33:50,761
he stopped by Chuck's house.
710
00:33:53,532 --> 00:33:55,532
Mercyful Fate was blasting
through the stereo.
711
00:33:55,534 --> 00:33:57,034
Someone was vacuuming.
712
00:33:57,036 --> 00:33:59,102
Walt's knocking on the
door, no one's answering.
713
00:33:59,104 --> 00:34:01,171
He sees someone peek
out of the blinds
714
00:34:01,173 --> 00:34:02,172
then the music turns off
715
00:34:02,174 --> 00:34:04,508
but no one would
answer the door.
716
00:34:04,510 --> 00:34:07,511
So he calls me, hey,
what's up with Chuck?
717
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,247
He won't open the door.
718
00:34:10,249 --> 00:34:12,082
I said come to my house.
719
00:34:12,084 --> 00:34:15,085
There's a bunch
of crap going on.
720
00:34:15,087 --> 00:34:19,189
- He really dreaded
getting on the plane
721
00:34:19,191 --> 00:34:21,658
and going to Europe
and he was also
722
00:34:21,660 --> 00:34:24,061
going through a
period of fatigue
723
00:34:24,063 --> 00:34:26,696
with keeping a
personal life going.
724
00:34:27,666 --> 00:34:30,467
His pets, his family,
his girlfriend
725
00:34:30,469 --> 00:34:34,504
and at that point in time
we were in a litigation
726
00:34:34,506 --> 00:34:36,239
with each other.
727
00:34:36,241 --> 00:34:38,208
- He never said anything to
us about what was going on.
728
00:34:38,210 --> 00:34:40,544
It seemed like
everything was alright
729
00:34:40,546 --> 00:34:43,780
but the thing with
Chuck is, was,
730
00:34:45,084 --> 00:34:47,617
if he turns his
back on something,
731
00:34:47,619 --> 00:34:49,619
over time it will go away.
732
00:34:49,621 --> 00:34:51,822
A couple tours had been
canceled in the past.
733
00:34:51,824 --> 00:34:53,223
The same thing.
734
00:34:53,225 --> 00:34:55,158
Cancel the tour, lay
low for a couple months
735
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,560
and then everything smooths out.
736
00:34:56,562 --> 00:34:57,861
But we had signed
contracts and we
737
00:34:57,863 --> 00:34:59,629
had all this stuff
laid out already.
738
00:34:59,631 --> 00:35:00,730
Merch was already made.
739
00:35:01,834 --> 00:35:04,434
Techs were already
hired from creator,
740
00:35:04,436 --> 00:35:05,702
there's a lot on the line.
741
00:35:05,704 --> 00:35:07,170
So I called the booking agent,
742
00:35:07,172 --> 00:35:09,506
the booking agent
called Chuck's mom,
743
00:35:09,508 --> 00:35:11,308
she was Chuck's
power of attorney
744
00:35:11,310 --> 00:35:13,276
and basically what we worked out
745
00:35:13,278 --> 00:35:16,113
stated that Chuck
wasn't going to Europe
746
00:35:16,115 --> 00:35:18,315
for the tour, he didn't
want any part of it.
747
00:35:18,317 --> 00:35:19,716
He wasn't gonna be
held responsible for it
748
00:35:19,718 --> 00:35:22,719
so me, Bill and Walt
drove to Orlando
749
00:35:23,689 --> 00:35:26,423
and Chuck had signed the paper,
750
00:35:26,425 --> 00:35:28,458
we signed the paper,
everyone got a copy
751
00:35:28,460 --> 00:35:29,860
and that was that.
752
00:35:29,861 --> 00:35:31,261
- And so they left
and they got Louis
753
00:35:31,263 --> 00:35:35,298
and they got Walter
and then I got the call
754
00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:36,700
from my lawyer.
755
00:35:36,702 --> 00:35:39,336
You're never gonna guess
who just called me.
756
00:35:39,338 --> 00:35:40,770
- Look, they were young
757
00:35:42,574 --> 00:35:46,376
and I think that
everybody had their points
758
00:35:46,378 --> 00:35:47,611
and everybody had
their feelings.
759
00:35:47,613 --> 00:35:50,514
At first Chuck
was angry about it
760
00:35:50,516 --> 00:35:53,550
but I think as the days wore on
761
00:35:53,552 --> 00:35:56,553
I think that he
was more thoughtful
762
00:35:56,555 --> 00:35:58,388
and pensive about it and then
763
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:59,923
it turned into,
instead of anger,
764
00:35:59,925 --> 00:36:02,659
more of a sadness about it.
765
00:36:02,661 --> 00:36:04,628
- You know, Death touring
and I'm in Florida.
766
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:09,699
It's just really
incredible concept
767
00:36:10,769 --> 00:36:12,869
and it depressed
me at certain times
768
00:36:12,871 --> 00:36:14,571
and I tried to get
over there at one point
769
00:36:14,573 --> 00:36:16,940
and it's just not a
very good situation.
770
00:36:16,942 --> 00:36:20,677
There's a lot bad things
going on out there
771
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:23,580
as far as feelings
towards me in general
772
00:36:23,582 --> 00:36:27,851
and so I didn't make it
out there unfortunately.
773
00:36:27,853 --> 00:36:29,886
I wanted to but never did.
774
00:36:29,888 --> 00:36:31,588
- About three or four
weeks into the tour
775
00:36:31,590 --> 00:36:34,391
Chuck called the
booking agent, TCI,
776
00:36:34,393 --> 00:36:37,260
that was in New
York, represented us
777
00:36:37,262 --> 00:36:40,764
and told him his head was
a little more clear now
778
00:36:40,766 --> 00:36:42,566
and he felt like he
could go on tour.
779
00:36:42,568 --> 00:36:44,434
He wanted to be
part of the tour.
780
00:36:44,436 --> 00:36:47,604
Mitch from
TCI told him dude,
781
00:36:47,606 --> 00:36:48,705
you can not go, no.
782
00:36:49,708 --> 00:36:50,941
Yeah.
783
00:36:50,943 --> 00:36:51,942
He couldn't understand that.
784
00:36:51,944 --> 00:36:53,543
That's my band.
785
00:36:53,545 --> 00:36:56,680
He's like well contractually,
through the label,
786
00:36:56,682 --> 00:36:58,915
there are two thirds of the
band over there right now.
787
00:36:58,917 --> 00:37:00,884
I mean that's just the way it is
788
00:37:00,886 --> 00:37:04,721
and Creator don't
want you over there
789
00:37:04,723 --> 00:37:06,723
just 'cause of what happened.
790
00:37:06,725 --> 00:37:08,925
- I was with Bill and
Terry for quite a while
791
00:37:08,927 --> 00:37:11,695
and we were definitely more
than just band members,
792
00:37:11,697 --> 00:37:14,297
we were best friends so
that's also another factor
793
00:37:14,299 --> 00:37:16,866
that's really a drag
when you lose members,
794
00:37:16,868 --> 00:37:18,635
sometimes friendship
is involved.
795
00:37:18,637 --> 00:37:19,769
- And we knew at that point
796
00:37:19,771 --> 00:37:21,271
when we did that tour that okay,
797
00:37:21,273 --> 00:37:22,772
we're not in Death anymore.
798
00:37:22,774 --> 00:37:26,476
We're fulfilling this tour,
this contract and all this
799
00:37:26,478 --> 00:37:30,313
as Death but we knew
that when we came home
800
00:37:30,315 --> 00:37:33,350
obviously that was it but
if he had just talked to us
801
00:37:33,352 --> 00:37:36,419
we would have talked to him
802
00:37:36,421 --> 00:37:37,721
and maybe we could try
to work something out.
803
00:37:42,561 --> 00:37:44,461
- I wanna just
keep moving forward
804
00:37:44,463 --> 00:37:46,796
and then have a record
each time around
805
00:37:46,798 --> 00:37:51,701
where people could say
wow, that's a lot different
806
00:37:51,703 --> 00:37:53,970
in a way from your last
album but still be the same.
807
00:37:53,972 --> 00:37:55,405
You know what I mean?
808
00:37:55,407 --> 00:37:56,973
Have a fresh approach
but at the same time
809
00:37:56,975 --> 00:37:58,708
have it where
someone can put it on
810
00:37:58,710 --> 00:38:01,544
and they can say that's Death
811
00:38:01,546 --> 00:38:03,280
except a lot better.
812
00:38:04,616 --> 00:38:07,050
- Therefore you're not getting
the same Death album twice
813
00:38:07,052 --> 00:38:09,853
and you never did
and he continued
814
00:38:09,855 --> 00:38:11,755
on this kind of path.
815
00:38:11,757 --> 00:38:13,857
That path led to
a lot of fall outs
816
00:38:13,859 --> 00:38:16,426
with musicians he
was working with
817
00:38:16,428 --> 00:38:18,862
and he got a reputation for
being difficult to work with.
818
00:38:18,864 --> 00:38:22,599
I think it was more just
having this solid creative eye,
819
00:38:22,601 --> 00:38:24,934
this vision that
was not gonna waiver
820
00:38:24,936 --> 00:38:27,771
for anybody or
anything and that's
821
00:38:27,773 --> 00:38:29,873
how you get to a
record like Human.
822
00:38:29,875 --> 00:38:31,841
- So when Sadus,
we were actually
823
00:38:31,843 --> 00:38:33,343
sharing a bus with Obituary
824
00:38:34,413 --> 00:38:37,681
and we were both support
bands for Sepultura,
825
00:38:37,683 --> 00:38:38,882
this was November of 1990
826
00:38:38,884 --> 00:38:41,584
and we came through
Florida and Chuck
827
00:38:41,586 --> 00:38:43,486
came to town to the
venue in Orlando early
828
00:38:43,488 --> 00:38:46,089
in the day and invited all
four Sadus guys to the place
829
00:38:46,091 --> 00:38:48,792
and we just went, killed the day
830
00:38:48,794 --> 00:38:51,828
just hanging out watching
watchtower videos on his TV,
831
00:38:51,830 --> 00:38:54,864
made some good food and
just hung out there.
832
00:38:54,866 --> 00:38:58,401
He had told us that some
previous guys had kind of,
833
00:38:58,403 --> 00:38:59,869
they had a falling out
and they went on tour
834
00:38:59,871 --> 00:39:01,504
without him under the name Death
835
00:39:01,506 --> 00:39:03,740
and he was ready
to just start over
836
00:39:03,742 --> 00:39:05,575
with a completely new lineup.
837
00:39:05,577 --> 00:39:08,378
- Well at the moment I'm
working on new material.
838
00:39:08,380 --> 00:39:10,947
Got half the record
down right now.
839
00:39:10,949 --> 00:39:13,650
I got friends of mine
from the band Cynic.
840
00:39:13,652 --> 00:39:15,785
The drummer Sean and
guitar player Paul
841
00:39:15,787 --> 00:39:17,954
are helping me out, rehearsing.
842
00:39:17,956 --> 00:39:19,656
They're gonna help
me out in the studio
843
00:39:19,658 --> 00:39:21,524
so it's really great.
844
00:39:21,526 --> 00:39:23,526
- And then I guess when
he started having problems
845
00:39:23,528 --> 00:39:26,029
with his lineup,
I'm not even really
846
00:39:26,031 --> 00:39:28,565
exactly sure what
the reason was,
847
00:39:29,735 --> 00:39:31,534
he asked Paul if
he thought that I
848
00:39:31,536 --> 00:39:34,471
would be interested
in doing the record
849
00:39:34,473 --> 00:39:37,841
so when A, I got
the call from Chuck
850
00:39:37,843 --> 00:39:39,843
and was like of course and then
851
00:39:39,845 --> 00:39:41,111
it was gonna be like well, is he
852
00:39:41,113 --> 00:39:42,779
gonna want me to, it's
gonna be interesting.
853
00:39:42,781 --> 00:39:44,013
What is he gonna want?
854
00:39:44,015 --> 00:39:45,782
- And so to me that
was exciting news.
855
00:39:45,784 --> 00:39:47,851
I'm a friend of Chuck,
fan of his music.
856
00:39:47,853 --> 00:39:50,520
I'm a fan of Cynic and
I'm picturing this union
857
00:39:50,522 --> 00:39:54,691
and as the tour progresses we
get up to Milwaukee I think
858
00:39:54,693 --> 00:39:57,827
and was part of
this Milwaukee Metal Fest.
859
00:39:57,829 --> 00:40:00,430
- And the headliner
was Sepultura
860
00:40:00,432 --> 00:40:02,599
and then Obituary
was on that tour
861
00:40:02,601 --> 00:40:03,867
and then of course Sadus
862
00:40:03,869 --> 00:40:09,906
and Steve just walked in
and I just said hey hippy.
863
00:40:10,142 --> 00:40:12,175
- Congratulations, you're gonna
be on the next Death record
864
00:40:12,177 --> 00:40:13,843
or something, I'm like what?
865
00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:16,413
So I think I found a
payphone and called Chuck
866
00:40:16,415 --> 00:40:17,981
and he goes oh yeah,
I was gonna ask you.
867
00:40:34,065 --> 00:40:36,833
- He had worked on
some of the Human songs
868
00:40:36,835 --> 00:40:39,969
with Terry, they had a split,
869
00:40:39,971 --> 00:40:43,740
so some of the material was
already written and recorded
870
00:40:43,742 --> 00:40:46,109
like demos of these songs.
871
00:40:46,111 --> 00:40:50,180
So to give these songs
to these jazzy cats
872
00:40:50,182 --> 00:40:54,184
from Miami was
incredible because it
873
00:40:54,186 --> 00:40:58,688
came together in a way
that was totally fresh.
874
00:40:58,690 --> 00:40:59,722
Look at that leap.
875
00:41:09,868 --> 00:41:11,901
- Chuck was advancing to a point
876
00:41:11,903 --> 00:41:13,903
where he needed guys
like Sean Reinert
877
00:41:13,905 --> 00:41:17,106
who and
Mahavishnu Orchestra
878
00:41:17,108 --> 00:41:18,942
and all these kind
of fusion bands.
879
00:41:18,944 --> 00:41:20,143
They understood that language.
880
00:41:20,145 --> 00:41:22,145
They were studying that
stuff and they were
881
00:41:22,147 --> 00:41:23,780
well into death metal as well.
882
00:41:23,782 --> 00:41:26,115
- I think what Human
became was because
883
00:41:26,117 --> 00:41:27,884
of the players themselves,
884
00:41:27,886 --> 00:41:29,619
is the style of the playing,
885
00:41:29,621 --> 00:41:31,821
is that Reinert is
all over the place
886
00:41:31,823 --> 00:41:33,122
so no matter what he would have
887
00:41:33,124 --> 00:41:35,592
been presented a song that Bill
888
00:41:35,594 --> 00:41:38,928
had done Bill's way and
then he just said okay,
889
00:41:38,930 --> 00:41:40,497
well this is how I play.
890
00:41:52,711 --> 00:41:54,511
- That was the point
of him bringing a guy
891
00:41:54,513 --> 00:41:57,547
like Sean Reinert who,
Cynic's already way different
892
00:41:58,683 --> 00:42:00,917
than a lot of the,
you know, Obituary,
893
00:42:00,919 --> 00:42:03,720
Deicide, Morbid
Angel, bands that
894
00:42:03,722 --> 00:42:05,221
were really established.
895
00:42:05,223 --> 00:42:06,990
He was looking for a departure
896
00:42:06,992 --> 00:42:08,591
so he was looking for musicians
897
00:42:08,593 --> 00:42:09,826
that would bring
a different angle.
898
00:42:09,828 --> 00:42:11,528
Obviously it comes
in with context
899
00:42:11,530 --> 00:42:12,929
of what Death is
supposed to sound like.
900
00:42:12,931 --> 00:42:15,798
We're not gonna go in there
and play something ridiculous
901
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,568
but as long as it
didn't stray too much
902
00:42:18,570 --> 00:42:20,837
from the heaviness
and the aggressiveness
903
00:42:20,839 --> 00:42:24,307
that Death should be, of
course all the little nuances
904
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:27,110
on each instrument
were up to us.
905
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:35,585
- I was so nervous.
906
00:42:35,587 --> 00:42:38,087
I was so nervous, it
was my first real life,
907
00:42:38,089 --> 00:42:41,057
legitimate record
recording session.
908
00:42:41,059 --> 00:42:44,627
I just remember losing
sleep the week before that
909
00:42:44,629 --> 00:42:46,229
and we had been rehearsing this.
910
00:42:46,231 --> 00:42:47,964
We had cut demos.
911
00:42:47,966 --> 00:42:49,799
- We came pretty
prepared for Human.
912
00:42:49,801 --> 00:42:52,201
We had some time.
913
00:42:52,203 --> 00:42:54,170
We used the Cynic
warehouse down in Miami
914
00:42:54,172 --> 00:42:56,573
to work out Chuck's
ideas and even
915
00:42:56,575 --> 00:42:59,008
add our own ideas so
we came pretty prepared
916
00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:00,710
so it was easy going.
917
00:43:00,712 --> 00:43:03,012
- We got in, we got
tones in one day
918
00:43:03,014 --> 00:43:05,748
and I finished that record
in like two and a half days
919
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:07,951
and we had like
eight days for drums
920
00:43:07,953 --> 00:43:11,688
and we were left with like
six days left with drums
921
00:43:11,690 --> 00:43:13,890
on the schedule
and they were like.
922
00:43:13,892 --> 00:43:15,592
So we wrote Cosmic Sea.
923
00:43:15,594 --> 00:43:17,093
We had worked on Vacant Planets
924
00:43:17,095 --> 00:43:19,829
but we had written that
in the rehearsal room.
925
00:43:19,831 --> 00:43:22,131
We wrote Cosmic
Sea in the studio.
926
00:43:33,945 --> 00:43:38,014
I've always been writing my
material without a bass player
927
00:43:38,016 --> 00:43:40,049
in some way or some form.
928
00:43:40,051 --> 00:43:43,953
So with me and Giorgio,
we were just going for it.
929
00:43:43,955 --> 00:43:45,188
We were just breaking shit down.
930
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:47,390
Oh, we can do this here,
we can do this here.
931
00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:50,126
- That was easy
with Sean because he
932
00:43:51,363 --> 00:43:53,296
had a completely
different approach to it.
933
00:43:53,298 --> 00:43:56,232
He was playing the
beat but it was almost
934
00:43:56,234 --> 00:43:58,368
like polyrhythmic to
what the riffs were
935
00:43:58,370 --> 00:44:00,036
and so that opens
up this huge gap
936
00:44:00,038 --> 00:44:01,971
between the guitar riff
and the drums for the bass
937
00:44:01,973 --> 00:44:04,307
to just cruise back and
forth between everything,
938
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:06,776
between the melody
and the rhythm.
939
00:44:06,778 --> 00:44:08,978
- We spent quite a
considerable amount
940
00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:10,880
of time on that stuff
so it was a little bit
941
00:44:10,882 --> 00:44:13,349
of a disappointment
when the mixes came out
942
00:44:13,351 --> 00:44:15,284
and it was kind of buried.
943
00:44:15,286 --> 00:44:16,686
'Cause there was a lot of stuff
944
00:44:16,688 --> 00:44:18,688
that was matched
up with me and him,
945
00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:20,256
you know what I mean.
946
00:44:49,187 --> 00:44:50,920
- I think that had an influence
947
00:44:50,922 --> 00:44:53,389
on other people starting
to play at the time
948
00:44:53,391 --> 00:44:55,158
and it made them wanna stretch
949
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,061
and become Sean
Reinerts on the drums
950
00:44:58,063 --> 00:45:01,164
or be a Stevie Giorgio
and be very fluent
951
00:45:01,166 --> 00:45:04,167
and he brought almost
a jazz fusion element
952
00:45:04,169 --> 00:45:06,736
into the playing that really
kind of fit with metal.
953
00:45:06,738 --> 00:45:08,337
It's got a flow
that I think spoke
954
00:45:08,339 --> 00:45:10,239
to a lot of metal fans.
955
00:45:10,241 --> 00:45:13,176
I think you had an
immediate outgrowth
956
00:45:13,178 --> 00:45:16,145
of a lot of musicians and bands
957
00:45:16,147 --> 00:45:18,815
forming in the wake of Human.
958
00:45:18,817 --> 00:45:20,450
None of the other Death albums
959
00:45:20,452 --> 00:45:23,286
really sparked
that kind of desire
960
00:45:23,288 --> 00:45:25,888
or that ambition to
play in that way.
961
00:45:40,371 --> 00:45:41,804
- Because there were
other death metal records
962
00:45:41,806 --> 00:45:42,739
that I picked up first.
963
00:45:42,741 --> 00:45:44,774
Like Cause of Death by Obituary
964
00:45:44,776 --> 00:45:46,008
is the first death metal record
965
00:45:46,010 --> 00:45:49,162
that I seriously got.
966
00:45:49,163 --> 00:45:52,315
It was pure death metal that
just changed things for me
967
00:45:52,317 --> 00:45:54,150
and then it was a
few months later,
968
00:45:54,152 --> 00:45:56,152
I ended up getting Death, Human.
969
00:45:56,154 --> 00:45:57,286
That was the first Death record
970
00:45:57,288 --> 00:45:58,821
that connected with
me 'cause again,
971
00:45:58,823 --> 00:46:00,289
I'm 16 at the time.
972
00:46:00,291 --> 00:46:03,226
Death metal is just blowing up.
973
00:46:03,228 --> 00:46:05,862
- When I first heard
Human, kind of saw,
974
00:46:05,864 --> 00:46:08,264
like back then it was
in a sense
975
00:46:08,266 --> 00:46:09,532
so when I first saw the artwork
976
00:46:09,534 --> 00:46:12,101
in comparison to stuff
like Cannibal Corpse,
977
00:46:12,103 --> 00:46:15,538
Tomb of the Mutilated, it's ...
978
00:46:30,288 --> 00:46:32,355
It's just more far
out there and it's one
979
00:46:32,357 --> 00:46:33,422
of the things that
I really loved
980
00:46:33,424 --> 00:46:35,391
about that record
at that time too
981
00:46:35,393 --> 00:46:39,462
'cause you'll have like Morbid
Angel, Blessed Are The Sick
982
00:46:39,464 --> 00:46:43,065
and then there's Human where
it's just really kind of like,
983
00:46:43,067 --> 00:46:46,235
at the time it was different.
984
00:46:46,237 --> 00:46:49,872
- When you brought in
Sean and Paul and Steve
985
00:46:49,874 --> 00:46:51,507
they had so many
different backgrounds
986
00:46:51,509 --> 00:46:54,177
between the three of
them, musical interests
987
00:46:54,179 --> 00:46:57,230
and musical tastes.
988
00:46:57,231 --> 00:47:00,282
It still had that basic
raw aggression in it.
989
00:47:01,386 --> 00:47:04,320
There was just so
more to it I think.
990
00:47:04,322 --> 00:47:06,289
You know what I mean,
so many more textures.
991
00:47:06,291 --> 00:47:08,491
- Something like Human
seems more extreme
992
00:47:08,493 --> 00:47:11,861
to me than Spiritual
Healing or even Leprosy
993
00:47:11,863 --> 00:47:14,330
even though technically
it's less barbaric
994
00:47:14,332 --> 00:47:15,998
and not nearly as heavy
995
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,467
in that old school
traditional sense
996
00:47:18,469 --> 00:47:21,003
but this idea of pushing stuff
997
00:47:21,005 --> 00:47:22,839
and stuff being more--
998
00:47:51,002 --> 00:47:52,185
That's what resonated with me
999
00:47:52,186 --> 00:47:53,369
and that was something
that was like this
1000
00:47:53,371 --> 00:47:55,104
is different, this is
something that I'm into
1001
00:47:55,106 --> 00:47:57,073
and from there on
I was just like,
1002
00:47:58,476 --> 00:48:01,410
I was a full on Death
fan from that moment on.
1003
00:48:10,622 --> 00:48:12,989
- It changed a lot of people's
conception of death metal.
1004
00:48:12,991 --> 00:48:15,157
It made them understand
that it could be expanded
1005
00:48:15,159 --> 00:48:17,460
and played around
with quite a bit
1006
00:48:17,462 --> 00:48:19,595
and new influence would
be brought into it
1007
00:48:19,597 --> 00:48:21,130
and not watered
down necessarily.
1008
00:48:21,132 --> 00:48:22,565
Still very much a
death metal record.
1009
00:48:22,567 --> 00:48:27,103
It's just a very, it's
kind of death metal
1010
00:48:27,105 --> 00:48:28,371
operating on a higher level.
1011
00:48:35,947 --> 00:48:37,446
- Death metal kind of involved
1012
00:48:37,448 --> 00:48:41,250
from this weird little
thing in the late 80s
1013
00:48:41,252 --> 00:48:46,322
to by around 1991,
1992, this movement
1014
00:48:47,425 --> 00:48:48,925
that had multiple
bands that were
1015
00:48:48,926 --> 00:48:50,426
selling hundreds of
thousands of records.
1016
00:48:50,428 --> 00:48:54,397
There were real media outlets
1017
00:48:54,399 --> 00:48:59,468
like even MTV
covering these bands,
1018
00:49:00,271 --> 00:49:01,320
like getting real attention.
1019
00:49:01,321 --> 00:49:02,370
- So we just, like
everybody else,
1020
00:49:02,373 --> 00:49:04,540
thought we have to do a video.
1021
00:49:04,542 --> 00:49:06,042
This is important to us now
1022
00:49:06,044 --> 00:49:07,677
and we went to
Relativity and we just
1023
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:09,445
said we need a video.
1024
00:49:09,447 --> 00:49:11,280
That's what's
happening right now.
1025
00:49:11,282 --> 00:49:16,352
- I distinctly
remember being like 16
1026
00:49:17,555 --> 00:49:20,556
sitting in my bedroom and
having an old VHS cassette
1027
00:49:23,261 --> 00:49:27,129
in my VCR waiting when
the Triple Thrash Threat
1028
00:49:27,365 --> 00:49:29,432
would start to hit record
1029
00:49:29,434 --> 00:49:32,101
so I could get this
four minute video
1030
00:49:32,103 --> 00:49:33,469
of Death somewhere.
1031
00:49:34,305 --> 00:49:35,638
You hope maybe they're
gonna play it this week
1032
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,306
so you'd sit there
and try to get it
1033
00:49:37,308 --> 00:49:38,574
but I know that I certainly
1034
00:49:38,576 --> 00:49:41,444
was not the only person
who saw that video.
1035
00:49:41,446 --> 00:49:45,581
It really kind of exposed
them to a wider audience.
1036
00:50:21,419 --> 00:50:23,452
- The idea of turning
on the television
1037
00:50:23,454 --> 00:50:25,621
and seeing yourself
was just so far removed
1038
00:50:25,623 --> 00:50:28,591
from our brain, like we
couldn't even imagine
1039
00:50:28,593 --> 00:50:32,361
that the band Death
would be on TV
1040
00:50:32,363 --> 00:50:36,465
and Headbanger's Ball was
the really only opportunity
1041
00:50:36,467 --> 00:50:39,435
by that time for metal to,
1042
00:50:39,437 --> 00:50:42,071
this is even before
Beavis and Butthead.
1043
00:50:42,073 --> 00:50:44,106
It's just, this was it.
1044
00:50:47,612 --> 00:50:52,648
♪ That creates its destruction ♪
1045
00:50:55,153 --> 00:51:00,156
♪ Lies ♪
1046
00:51:01,292 --> 00:51:03,626
♪ Right before your very eyes ♪
1047
00:51:03,628 --> 00:51:05,528
♪ A reflection of the mistakes ♪
1048
00:51:05,530 --> 00:51:08,364
♪ To the end you will deny ♪
1049
00:51:08,366 --> 00:51:12,568
♪ Your part in the
demise of a life ♪
1050
00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:17,139
- I knew the director because I
1051
00:51:17,141 --> 00:51:18,674
was managing a
band called London
1052
00:51:20,511 --> 00:51:24,113
from Los Angeles and
we had done a video
1053
00:51:24,115 --> 00:51:26,415
for one of their songs
and this guy Dave Bellino
1054
00:51:26,417 --> 00:51:29,151
had been the director
and I liked his work
1055
00:51:29,153 --> 00:51:30,686
so I just said would
you do this one
1056
00:51:30,688 --> 00:51:32,154
and he just said yeah.
1057
00:51:33,324 --> 00:51:36,592
- A one camera
shoot, one camera.
1058
00:51:36,594 --> 00:51:38,594
So I played that song
something like 30 times
1059
00:51:38,596 --> 00:51:42,665
and of course I have to
at least move most of it.
1060
00:51:44,669 --> 00:51:47,670
- Well actually, in a video
situation such as this,
1061
00:51:47,672 --> 00:51:48,871
this is how we do it now.
1062
00:51:48,873 --> 00:51:50,473
I don't know about .
1063
00:51:52,143 --> 00:51:56,612
We just run through the
song about 30 or 40 times,
1064
00:51:56,614 --> 00:52:00,649
do individual, we call
'em iso's, isolations.
1065
00:52:20,738 --> 00:52:23,639
- I was living in Kansas
when I was growing up
1066
00:52:23,641 --> 00:52:26,609
and I saw the video for
Lack of Comprehension
1067
00:52:26,611 --> 00:52:28,644
on Headbanger's Ball.
1068
00:52:28,646 --> 00:52:31,780
I was just totally blown away
especially by Sean Reinert.
1069
00:52:31,782 --> 00:52:34,617
There was a shot where
he's playing like this
1070
00:52:34,619 --> 00:52:35,885
and he looks like an octopus
1071
00:52:35,887 --> 00:52:37,820
playing this crazy drum pattern.
1072
00:52:37,822 --> 00:52:40,656
I was like whoa,
what the heck is that
1073
00:52:41,792 --> 00:52:44,727
and for me, being a
drummer, it sounded
1074
00:52:44,729 --> 00:52:49,498
like Neil Pert crossed
with Pete Sandoval.
1075
00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:51,233
It was just the craziest thing.
1076
00:52:55,540 --> 00:52:57,873
♪ Right before your very eyes ♪
1077
00:52:57,875 --> 00:53:00,543
♪ A reflection of the mistakes ♪
1078
00:53:00,545 --> 00:53:02,912
♪ To the end you will deny ♪
1079
00:53:02,914 --> 00:53:08,184
♪ Your part in the
demise of a life ♪
1080
00:53:10,421 --> 00:53:15,491
♪ Lack of comprehension ♪
1081
00:53:16,327 --> 00:53:20,429
♪ Thriving on your cliche ♪
1082
00:53:20,431 --> 00:53:24,433
♪ Compelled by self-resentment ♪
1083
00:53:26,771 --> 00:53:28,404
- Oh my god!
1084
00:53:32,310 --> 00:53:36,645
- But what became striking
was the European metal press
1085
00:53:36,647 --> 00:53:39,782
writing about the
fact that Chuck
1086
00:53:39,784 --> 00:53:44,687
had an inability to
follow through with tours
1087
00:53:44,689 --> 00:53:47,323
and that became a problem.
1088
00:53:47,325 --> 00:53:48,891
- I think maybe we get
the inconvenient stuff
1089
00:53:48,893 --> 00:53:51,760
out of the way first, yeah?
1090
00:53:51,762 --> 00:53:55,598
Let's talk about the
European disaster.
1091
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,567
So why didn't you
make it to Europe?
1092
00:53:58,569 --> 00:54:00,369
What is the reason behind it?
1093
00:54:00,371 --> 00:54:01,670
- They knew that he had bailed
1094
00:54:01,672 --> 00:54:04,740
towards the end of a tour and so
1095
00:54:04,742 --> 00:54:09,311
were thinking this guy
doesn't wanna be out there
1096
00:54:09,313 --> 00:54:11,547
and now there's another
tour with Kreator
1097
00:54:11,549 --> 00:54:13,515
and rumors were that Chuck
1098
00:54:13,517 --> 00:54:17,319
wasn't gonna show and
then when he didn't show,
1099
00:54:17,321 --> 00:54:18,821
that was it.
1100
00:54:18,823 --> 00:54:21,724
It was very difficult going
back to Europe with Human.
1101
00:54:21,726 --> 00:54:24,727
Nobody believed that it
was gonna occur, really.
1102
00:54:24,729 --> 00:54:27,796
- And all I can do is
say I'm looking forward
1103
00:54:27,798 --> 00:54:29,832
to making it to Europe finally
1104
00:54:29,834 --> 00:54:34,336
and I hope people show
up and support the music
1105
00:54:34,338 --> 00:54:36,605
and you know, that's about it.
1106
00:54:37,675 --> 00:54:39,775
- You know that a lot of people
1107
00:54:39,777 --> 00:54:42,311
are fed up with
the band right now.
1108
00:54:42,313 --> 00:54:44,513
Lot of Germany, there's a
lot of people pissed off
1109
00:54:44,515 --> 00:54:46,615
so you gotta win
'em back somehow.
1110
00:54:46,617 --> 00:54:50,486
So will this band make
it to Europe at last?
1111
00:54:50,488 --> 00:54:51,387
You sure?
1112
00:54:55,059 --> 00:54:57,493
What if not, what if not?
1113
00:54:58,863 --> 00:55:00,929
- Come back in another
life as an acorn
1114
00:55:01,999 --> 00:55:04,600
and that would suck, seriously.
1115
00:55:04,602 --> 00:55:07,436
- And I said to him okay, so
how do you wanna work this
1116
00:55:07,438 --> 00:55:08,570
and he said well I would like
1117
00:55:08,572 --> 00:55:10,472
to buy everybody
new instruments.
1118
00:55:10,474 --> 00:55:12,875
We'll use the equipment
for the North American tour
1119
00:55:12,877 --> 00:55:14,677
and then we'll ship it
to Europe and use it.
1120
00:55:14,679 --> 00:55:15,644
I'm like what?
1121
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:17,746
Why do you wanna ship it?
1122
00:55:17,748 --> 00:55:19,615
Because it's our equipment and I
1123
00:55:19,617 --> 00:55:21,517
wanna work with my own stuff
1124
00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:23,819
and we'll get transformers
so they can be plugged in
1125
00:55:23,821 --> 00:55:24,953
and what am I supposed to say?
1126
00:55:24,955 --> 00:55:27,556
I just alright,
it's gonna be crazy
1127
00:55:27,558 --> 00:55:29,491
and so because we
had nothing left
1128
00:55:29,493 --> 00:55:31,794
I had to do a deal
so that the bus
1129
00:55:31,796 --> 00:55:35,097
would be fronted by
the British promoter
1130
00:55:35,099 --> 00:55:38,767
who had the British dates so
he would do it at the end.
1131
00:55:44,608 --> 00:55:46,475
- And you know, Paul
and I's first tour,
1132
00:55:46,477 --> 00:55:48,744
we got the bus, the whole thing.
1133
00:55:48,746 --> 00:55:52,348
We've driven vans and RVs
and we were just loving it
1134
00:55:52,350 --> 00:55:54,750
and back then, man,
your tours were long.
1135
00:55:54,752 --> 00:55:56,885
They were like two
months at a time.
1136
00:55:56,887 --> 00:55:58,787
- By then Chuck was
growing really homesick.
1137
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:59,888
It would have been two weeks out
1138
00:55:59,890 --> 00:56:02,558
and he really wanted to go home
1139
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:07,096
and then we got sick.
1140
00:56:07,098 --> 00:56:08,597
- And we were all sharing a bus
1141
00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:11,133
and they were a French
band and they all smoked
1142
00:56:11,135 --> 00:56:13,135
and our bus driver smoked
1143
00:56:13,137 --> 00:56:15,704
so we were traveling literally
1144
00:56:15,706 --> 00:56:20,776
in just a 40 foot fucking
second hand smoke capsule.
1145
00:56:22,646 --> 00:56:25,748
- And Reinert collapses.
1146
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:27,183
He gets very, very sick.
1147
00:56:27,184 --> 00:56:28,617
Has to be brought
to the hospital.
1148
00:56:29,754 --> 00:56:32,054
Then I, being a diabetic
and not paying attention
1149
00:56:32,056 --> 00:56:34,490
to my health, I got sick.
1150
00:56:34,492 --> 00:56:35,824
- Then Eric had to
go to a hospital
1151
00:56:35,826 --> 00:56:37,826
and then that's
when it fell apart.
1152
00:56:39,029 --> 00:56:42,498
- So I stayed and the idea
was I would keep in touch
1153
00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:45,868
by phone for the venues.
1154
00:56:45,870 --> 00:56:48,404
Something happened when
Chuck got to Germany
1155
00:56:49,507 --> 00:56:52,808
where he flipped his
lid about the promoter
1156
00:56:52,810 --> 00:56:54,109
and something
related to the gigs
1157
00:56:54,111 --> 00:56:56,912
and by then, of course,
he was at wits end
1158
00:56:56,914 --> 00:56:58,013
because he did not
wanna be
1159
00:56:58,015 --> 00:56:59,982
and the next thing
I know I'm fired
1160
00:56:59,984 --> 00:57:03,419
for not being by his
side and he's quit
1161
00:57:03,421 --> 00:57:04,520
and the tour is over.
1162
00:57:12,963 --> 00:57:16,064
- I remember
threatening Chuck
1163
00:57:16,066 --> 00:57:20,903
with lawsuits and
it was definitely,
1164
00:57:20,905 --> 00:57:23,806
it was just a weird
situation because we
1165
00:57:23,808 --> 00:57:27,109
were totally caught in
the middle of that thing,
1166
00:57:27,111 --> 00:57:28,544
you know what I mean?
1167
00:57:28,546 --> 00:57:30,946
- And because the
bus was put up,
1168
00:57:30,948 --> 00:57:33,582
the money for that was put
up by the British promoter
1169
00:57:33,584 --> 00:57:35,451
who hadn't had his shows yet,
1170
00:57:35,453 --> 00:57:37,186
they were at the
end of the tour,
1171
00:57:37,188 --> 00:57:40,622
he flipped out because
he lost all this money
1172
00:57:40,624 --> 00:57:43,025
so he put a lien on the gear.
1173
00:57:43,027 --> 00:57:45,694
- Our gear got
taken so my drums,
1174
00:57:45,696 --> 00:57:50,766
Paul's guitar amps and Mike
and all that shit
1175
00:57:51,735 --> 00:57:52,968
were held hostage and
we were now signed
1176
00:57:52,970 --> 00:57:56,538
and supposed to write
and record a record
1177
00:57:56,540 --> 00:58:00,042
and it took us like nine
months to get our gear back.
1178
00:58:00,044 --> 00:58:03,145
- And he gathered
the guys together
1179
00:58:03,147 --> 00:58:05,247
and somehow they made
it back to London
1180
00:58:05,249 --> 00:58:06,682
for the flights back home
1181
00:58:06,684 --> 00:58:10,219
because of course the
flights were from London
1182
00:58:10,221 --> 00:58:13,622
two months later so they
had to negotiate their way
1183
00:58:13,624 --> 00:58:14,823
to get back on their plane.
1184
00:58:14,825 --> 00:58:16,592
- Then it was Chuck saying Eric
1185
00:58:16,594 --> 00:58:19,261
and Eric saying Chuck
and the bus company
1186
00:58:19,263 --> 00:58:23,098
saying the entity
Death then that's
1187
00:58:23,100 --> 00:58:27,135
where everybody, it kind of
turned into Lord of the Flies.
1188
00:58:27,137 --> 00:58:28,170
You know what I mean, everybody
1189
00:58:28,172 --> 00:58:29,838
just didn't know who to trust
1190
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,175
and it turned into this
whole weird situation.
1191
00:58:33,177 --> 00:58:35,811
- Well we cut it off two
weeks early actually.
1192
00:58:35,813 --> 00:58:37,746
We did six weeks of touring
1193
00:58:37,748 --> 00:58:40,716
and then the financial
part of things
1194
00:58:40,718 --> 00:58:45,087
completely fell
apart due to people
1195
00:58:45,089 --> 00:58:49,091
mismanaging our funds,
things not being paid,
1196
00:58:49,093 --> 00:58:52,060
a lot of things, it was
a nightmare financially.
1197
00:58:52,062 --> 00:58:53,195
Tour wise it was great.
1198
00:58:53,197 --> 00:58:54,596
The audiences were great.
1199
00:58:54,598 --> 00:58:58,100
People really, they
accepted things
1200
00:58:58,102 --> 00:59:00,168
and it was fantastic
on that level
1201
00:59:00,170 --> 00:59:01,570
but financially
it was a disaster
1202
00:59:01,572 --> 00:59:04,740
and you can not
tour without funds.
1203
00:59:04,742 --> 00:59:06,108
We do not make millions.
1204
00:59:06,110 --> 00:59:09,311
This is not a big, big,
big money making thing.
1205
00:59:09,313 --> 00:59:11,747
- Any notion of us
sitting at a table
1206
00:59:11,749 --> 00:59:14,283
and having a discussion
before the tour
1207
00:59:14,285 --> 00:59:18,654
about what we need to do
if you want all your gear
1208
00:59:18,656 --> 00:59:22,724
sent to Europe and not,
we don't just rent stuff,
1209
00:59:22,726 --> 00:59:26,228
all of that went down
the drain and someone
1210
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:28,230
had to be blamed and so he just,
1211
00:59:28,232 --> 00:59:30,265
it was very convenient
to blame the manager.
1212
00:59:30,267 --> 00:59:33,969
- I never had any resolution
with Chuck unfortunately
1213
00:59:33,971 --> 00:59:38,040
and I never really had
a big fallout with Chuck
1214
00:59:38,042 --> 00:59:39,775
interestingly enough.
1215
00:59:39,777 --> 00:59:41,009
I never got the phone call.
1216
00:59:41,011 --> 00:59:42,644
I got a phone call
from Steve DiGiorgio
1217
00:59:42,646 --> 00:59:45,113
saying hey dude, we're
in the studio right now
1218
00:59:45,115 --> 00:59:46,949
and Gene's playing drums.
1219
00:59:46,951 --> 00:59:48,684
The only thing I'm upset about
1220
00:59:48,686 --> 00:59:50,752
is just not the communication.
1221
00:59:50,754 --> 00:59:53,088
Hearing it from
somebody, from somebody
1222
00:59:53,090 --> 00:59:55,691
when they're in the
studio, just like really?
1223
00:59:55,693 --> 00:59:57,326
Just call me, dude.
1224
00:59:57,328 --> 00:59:59,127
I understand.
1225
00:59:59,129 --> 01:00:01,863
You have a timeline,
you're a professional.
1226
01:00:01,865 --> 01:00:03,865
This is how you're living.
1227
01:00:03,867 --> 01:00:05,000
I'm not gonna be angry.
1228
01:00:05,002 --> 01:00:08,303
I'll be disappointed but anyway,
1229
01:00:08,305 --> 01:00:10,973
that's a whole other
part of that thing.
1230
01:00:12,009 --> 01:00:16,778
went on to do their band
1231
01:00:16,780 --> 01:00:18,947
which they still had
together at the time
1232
01:00:18,949 --> 01:00:20,749
when they're helping me out
1233
01:00:20,751 --> 01:00:22,884
and so they're doing
their thing now
1234
01:00:22,886 --> 01:00:25,053
and that and then I needed
1235
01:00:25,055 --> 01:00:26,855
to start looking for new people
1236
01:00:26,857 --> 01:00:28,390
and luckily that
wasn't any problem.
1237
01:00:28,392 --> 01:00:31,093
I lucked out and
got a hold of Gene
1238
01:00:31,095 --> 01:00:33,328
formerly of Dark Angel
and called him up
1239
01:00:33,330 --> 01:00:36,331
and he's into jamming out.
1240
01:00:36,333 --> 01:00:38,400
- That was rather strange.
1241
01:00:38,402 --> 01:00:40,769
I was in the process
of leaving Dark Angel
1242
01:00:40,771 --> 01:00:42,904
when I got a call from
one morning
1243
01:00:42,906 --> 01:00:45,707
saying hey man, Chuck
is looking for a drummer
1244
01:00:45,709 --> 01:00:48,010
and I talked to Chuck earlier
1245
01:00:48,012 --> 01:00:49,411
and I brought your name up.
1246
01:00:49,413 --> 01:00:51,680
Whatever happened I
called Chuck a day later
1247
01:00:51,682 --> 01:00:54,282
or whatever and I said hey man,
1248
01:00:54,284 --> 01:00:56,952
called me and
said that you're looking.
1249
01:00:56,954 --> 01:00:58,153
He's like yeah,
are you interested
1250
01:00:58,155 --> 01:01:00,689
and it was completely
just like we
1251
01:01:00,691 --> 01:01:03,792
picked up our last
awesome conversation.
1252
01:01:03,794 --> 01:01:05,127
We just kind of picked
it up from there
1253
01:01:05,129 --> 01:01:09,131
and everything was great
and within a couple
1254
01:01:09,133 --> 01:01:11,133
of weeks or a month
I was in Florida
1255
01:01:11,135 --> 01:01:13,435
and we were rehearsing in
his mom's garage at that time
1256
01:01:13,437 --> 01:01:16,938
and Scott came up from Tampa
1257
01:01:16,940 --> 01:01:20,075
and he bought Chuck
a little four track.
1258
01:01:20,077 --> 01:01:22,077
Just like hey, you're not gonna
1259
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:26,181
record your demos on a
ghetto blaster again.
1260
01:01:27,051 --> 01:01:29,552
Taught us how to work it.
1261
01:01:29,553 --> 01:01:32,054
- And then to top
it off I got Steve back
1262
01:01:32,056 --> 01:01:33,288
jamming again.
1263
01:01:33,290 --> 01:01:35,123
He's taking time
from Sadus right now
1264
01:01:35,125 --> 01:01:37,159
who are still
together hanging out
1265
01:01:38,162 --> 01:01:40,328
and so it's been fantastic
1266
01:01:40,330 --> 01:01:42,698
and we got Andy LaRocque
from King Diamond
1267
01:01:42,700 --> 01:01:44,866
to come down and
do some lead work.
1268
01:01:46,103 --> 01:01:48,870
- It was just Andy LaRocque
from King Diamond coming in.
1269
01:01:48,872 --> 01:01:52,040
This is the man and Chuck
had picked the songs
1270
01:01:52,042 --> 01:01:53,909
he wanted Andy's
solos on but instead
1271
01:01:53,911 --> 01:01:55,143
of sending him the whole song
1272
01:01:55,145 --> 01:01:56,178
he just recorded
the little segments
1273
01:01:56,180 --> 01:01:58,013
where the solos go.
1274
01:01:58,015 --> 01:01:59,347
So Andy said he
received this tape,
1275
01:01:59,349 --> 01:02:01,116
it was just these
little blurbs of music
1276
01:02:01,118 --> 01:02:04,986
and he was kinda, it
wasn't really locked in.
1277
01:02:04,988 --> 01:02:06,254
He was out of context.
1278
01:02:06,256 --> 01:02:08,290
He didn't have the
vibe of the song.
1279
01:02:08,292 --> 01:02:09,825
He didn't know the move.
1280
01:02:09,827 --> 01:02:10,959
He just had these little parts.
1281
01:02:10,961 --> 01:02:12,194
Chuck was like
here's where you play
1282
01:02:12,196 --> 01:02:14,296
and Andy's like
I'm not feeling it.
1283
01:02:16,033 --> 01:02:18,200
He had showed up and
said yeah, I listened
1284
01:02:18,202 --> 01:02:20,969
to the tape but I didn't
really listen to it.
1285
01:02:20,971 --> 01:02:23,004
I didn't sit down
and analyze it.
1286
01:02:23,006 --> 01:02:24,272
I didn't really
prepare something
1287
01:02:24,274 --> 01:02:26,174
and Scott was like
oh no, here we go.
1288
01:02:26,176 --> 01:02:29,077
This guy comes all
the way in from Sweden
1289
01:02:29,079 --> 01:02:31,246
and he's just, and
he was only scheduled
1290
01:02:31,248 --> 01:02:32,414
for a couple days really.
1291
01:02:32,416 --> 01:02:34,082
He's like how are we
gonna get this done?
1292
01:02:34,084 --> 01:02:35,317
This is brutal.
1293
01:02:35,319 --> 01:02:37,119
We're gonna have to
start from square one.
1294
01:02:37,121 --> 01:02:38,821
Andy just looked
over at me and Chuck
1295
01:02:38,822 --> 01:02:40,522
and shrugged and said
don't worry about it, guys.
1296
01:02:40,524 --> 01:02:41,890
It'll be okay.
1297
01:02:41,892 --> 01:02:43,892
Just push record,
we'll see what happens.
1298
01:02:43,894 --> 01:02:45,293
This guy takes a big
sigh, alright, here we go.
1299
01:02:45,295 --> 01:02:46,495
Hits record, boom.
1300
01:02:46,497 --> 01:02:48,363
Andy lets something rip.
1301
01:03:34,278 --> 01:03:36,378
Me and Chuck are just
hair standing up,
1302
01:03:36,380 --> 01:03:39,080
goose bumping up watching
this guy in action.
1303
01:03:39,082 --> 01:03:41,116
We get to the end of
it and Andy's like,
1304
01:03:41,118 --> 01:03:43,318
kind of laugh like oh well,
I'm just getting warmed up.
1305
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:44,953
Give me another run through.
1306
01:03:44,955 --> 01:03:46,188
Let me do something
for real and Scott
1307
01:03:46,190 --> 01:03:47,856
goes hold on, let me set
you up another track.
1308
01:03:47,858 --> 01:03:49,291
I'm keeping that.
1309
01:03:49,293 --> 01:03:52,260
I don't know if he
really prepared at home
1310
01:03:52,262 --> 01:03:53,495
and just kind of played it off
1311
01:03:53,497 --> 01:03:55,330
or if that's just what
comes out of that guy
1312
01:03:55,332 --> 01:03:57,265
but whatever it
was, it was awesome
1313
01:03:57,267 --> 01:03:58,600
'cause he was
knocking his solos out
1314
01:03:58,602 --> 01:04:02,237
and not only just playing
a cool melodic solo passage
1315
01:04:02,239 --> 01:04:04,306
with very, very few takes
1316
01:04:04,308 --> 01:04:05,841
but as soon as he
would finish a take
1317
01:04:05,843 --> 01:04:07,375
and we all got the
nod around the room
1318
01:04:07,377 --> 01:04:09,277
like that's it, that's it,
he would say roll it back
1319
01:04:09,279 --> 01:04:11,079
to the top and give
me another track
1320
01:04:11,081 --> 01:04:12,414
and he would double it.
1321
01:04:12,416 --> 01:04:14,950
Note for note,
inflection for inflection
1322
01:04:14,952 --> 01:04:18,153
and was just nailing
what he just did
1323
01:04:18,155 --> 01:04:20,088
in a harmony
position or something
1324
01:04:20,090 --> 01:04:22,057
and it was like holy crap.
1325
01:04:22,058 --> 01:04:24,025
- I don't ever try to
control what people play.
1326
01:04:24,027 --> 01:04:26,261
I just say come
in and let loose,
1327
01:04:26,263 --> 01:04:28,930
let the metal flow and
that's exactly what happened
1328
01:04:28,932 --> 01:04:30,298
and it's great to be
able to get people
1329
01:04:30,300 --> 01:04:31,600
that you know, that
you're friends with
1330
01:04:31,602 --> 01:04:34,936
and that are really
professionals,
1331
01:04:34,938 --> 01:04:37,339
strong at what they do and
have their own identity
1332
01:04:37,341 --> 01:04:39,875
and that is crucial
in any type of music.
1333
01:04:39,877 --> 01:04:41,509
You have to have your own style
1334
01:04:41,511 --> 01:04:44,112
whether you play
piano or whatever.
1335
01:04:44,114 --> 01:04:46,014
- He had made it clear
during the recordings,
1336
01:04:46,016 --> 01:04:47,449
I think he even made
it official one day.
1337
01:04:47,451 --> 01:04:48,700
We just went out for lunch.
1338
01:04:48,701 --> 01:04:49,950
- It was something
like hey, we've
1339
01:04:49,953 --> 01:04:52,420
been offered a two
or three week run
1340
01:04:52,422 --> 01:04:55,924
over in Europe and might
you be available for it?
1341
01:04:55,926 --> 01:04:57,626
It's a festival thing
that we're headlining.
1342
01:04:57,628 --> 01:05:00,095
- We weren't expected
to in the recording
1343
01:05:00,097 --> 01:05:02,464
to go out live but
he said you know,
1344
01:05:02,466 --> 01:05:04,132
I'd really like to
have you guys there.
1345
01:05:04,134 --> 01:05:05,433
Are you willing to do it?
1346
01:05:06,570 --> 01:05:08,570
And we just looked at
each other like hell yeah.
1347
01:05:08,572 --> 01:05:11,940
Go out and play this material
we just helped you invent.
1348
01:05:11,942 --> 01:05:13,174
That would be great.
1349
01:05:13,176 --> 01:05:15,343
- Death will always
remain a growing band
1350
01:05:15,345 --> 01:05:17,996
'cause I think
there's definitely
1351
01:05:17,997 --> 01:05:20,648
too much of a limit being
put on death metal right now
1352
01:05:20,651 --> 01:05:25,921
with this big rise
in Satanic stuff
1353
01:05:27,291 --> 01:05:30,959
and just brutal lyrics for
the sake of being brutal
1354
01:05:32,062 --> 01:05:33,228
rather than putting
some thought into
1355
01:05:33,230 --> 01:05:34,529
and trying to
conquer what people
1356
01:05:34,531 --> 01:05:37,365
already think of heavy
metal and death metal
1357
01:05:37,367 --> 01:05:39,200
or hard rock in general.
1358
01:05:40,337 --> 01:05:43,171
I feel like I won't
put a limit on this
1359
01:05:43,173 --> 01:05:47,475
and I wanna keep continuing
to grow as a musician
1360
01:05:47,477 --> 01:05:49,711
and as a person
in life and to try
1361
01:05:49,713 --> 01:05:54,182
to put into the music
what I learn, so to speak.
1362
01:05:54,184 --> 01:05:57,652
- I think he made it
clear that the scene,
1363
01:05:57,654 --> 01:05:59,955
the death metal scene
in and of itself
1364
01:05:59,957 --> 01:06:03,658
was for a lot of people
kind of a limiting box
1365
01:06:03,660 --> 01:06:04,559
to be in.
1366
01:06:06,096 --> 01:06:07,495
It was always be more
extreme, be more extreme.
1367
01:06:07,497 --> 01:06:10,398
Be brutal, be this, do
the sickest stuff ever
1368
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,267
and I think he didn't
wanna do that anymore
1369
01:06:12,269 --> 01:06:16,471
and I think he realized
that where do you go?
1370
01:06:16,473 --> 01:06:20,408
You can't just keep pounding out
1371
01:06:20,410 --> 01:06:23,378
those kinds of
lyrics all the time
1372
01:06:23,380 --> 01:06:25,680
and if you're not, if
your heart isn't in it
1373
01:06:25,682 --> 01:06:28,750
you don't wanna fake
your way through it
1374
01:06:28,752 --> 01:06:34,022
so for him, I feel like
it would be pretty natural
1375
01:06:34,624 --> 01:06:36,424
for him to react negatively
1376
01:06:36,426 --> 01:06:40,729
to the idea that he was
just a death metal guy
1377
01:06:42,065 --> 01:06:44,599
and you saw him
do that, obviously
1378
01:06:44,601 --> 01:06:46,601
he said it in
interviews at the time
1379
01:06:46,603 --> 01:06:49,637
but he would kind of go
against the grain I think
1380
01:06:51,308 --> 01:06:53,708
in really I think fun ways
1381
01:06:53,710 --> 01:06:56,011
especially with like the
t-shirts that he wore.
1382
01:06:56,013 --> 01:06:58,613
That shirt that he wore in a
Headbanger's Ball interview
1383
01:06:58,615 --> 01:07:02,117
where he's got the cats,
the little kitties on them.
1384
01:07:02,119 --> 01:07:03,718
Like stuff like that
was always like,
1385
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:05,120
nobody else would do that.
1386
01:07:05,122 --> 01:07:06,588
Nobody else had the
balls to do that
1387
01:07:06,590 --> 01:07:09,524
and it was just
basically, it was fun
1388
01:07:11,461 --> 01:07:14,529
but I think it was also
kind of a fuck you.
1389
01:07:15,432 --> 01:07:19,234
You don't have to be
this brutal all the time
1390
01:07:19,236 --> 01:07:20,919
and what is the point of it
1391
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:22,603
and really, are we all really
this brutal all the time?
1392
01:07:22,606 --> 01:07:24,339
Is this really how life is?
1393
01:07:24,341 --> 01:07:26,541
- Now on the other
hand, Death went out
1394
01:07:26,543 --> 01:07:31,312
and what appears to be like
a pretty high budget video.
1395
01:07:31,314 --> 01:07:33,515
- Actually, it's very budgeted.
1396
01:07:33,517 --> 01:07:35,183
- Where did you film the video?
1397
01:07:35,185 --> 01:07:37,585
- We filmed it actually,
part of it was outside
1398
01:07:37,587 --> 01:07:41,423
in Natural Springs in
Florida and the other half
1399
01:07:41,425 --> 01:07:43,425
was shot two hours
away in some warehouse
1400
01:07:43,427 --> 01:07:45,827
in the middle of tornado land.
1401
01:07:45,829 --> 01:07:47,462
- 'Cause looking at the video
1402
01:07:47,464 --> 01:07:49,197
it looks like it was in some
rain forest or something.
1403
01:07:49,199 --> 01:07:50,532
You went and spent
all the money on it
1404
01:07:50,534 --> 01:07:52,551
and it's a nice video.
1405
01:07:52,552 --> 01:07:54,569
- Thank you, we're very
happy with how it turned out.
1406
01:07:54,571 --> 01:07:55,537
Definitely.
1407
01:07:58,575 --> 01:08:00,475
♪ Do you feel what I feel ♪
1408
01:08:00,477 --> 01:08:02,510
- Ew, is this a joke?
1409
01:08:02,512 --> 01:08:03,678
- Yeah, yeah.
1410
01:08:04,514 --> 01:08:06,514
I think this is
supposed to be funny.
1411
01:08:08,452 --> 01:08:10,852
- Hey, check
it out, it's Jeremy.
1412
01:08:10,854 --> 01:08:12,620
- Yeah,
he's still running.
1413
01:08:13,523 --> 01:08:14,656
- Who would have
guessed that they
1414
01:08:14,658 --> 01:08:16,825
would be cultural pacemakers?
1415
01:08:16,827 --> 01:08:18,693
Like if you got
Beavis and Butthead
1416
01:08:18,695 --> 01:08:21,396
to comment on your video, you
1417
01:08:21,398 --> 01:08:23,531
were getting a lot
of extra eyes on it
1418
01:08:23,533 --> 01:08:25,767
in primetime television
because like it or not,
1419
01:08:25,769 --> 01:08:27,235
the Headbanger's Ball audience
1420
01:08:27,237 --> 01:08:29,871
was still pretty limited
to midnight to two a.m.
1421
01:08:29,873 --> 01:08:31,606
on the east coast
on a Saturday night.
1422
01:08:31,608 --> 01:08:34,676
Anybody who stayed up was
already indoctrinated.
1423
01:08:34,678 --> 01:08:36,211
You were already into this shit
1424
01:08:36,213 --> 01:08:37,679
and were waiting for it.
1425
01:08:37,681 --> 01:08:39,514
IF you're watching
Beavis and Butthead
1426
01:08:39,516 --> 01:08:43,351
and you got hit with 40
seconds of a Death video,
1427
01:08:43,353 --> 01:08:47,222
that could hit anybody
at any point in time.
1428
01:08:49,192 --> 01:08:50,892
- Was it spawned out
of a love for the music
1429
01:08:50,894 --> 01:08:52,594
that was being played?
1430
01:08:52,596 --> 01:08:54,896
I don't know but things
everyone apart
1431
01:08:54,898 --> 01:08:57,432
no matter how good the music is.
1432
01:08:57,434 --> 01:08:58,700
I mean White Zombie, Crowbar.
1433
01:08:58,702 --> 01:09:00,902
I mean Crowbar are one
of my favorites bands
1434
01:09:00,904 --> 01:09:04,539
apart
but I mean it then
1435
01:09:04,541 --> 01:09:06,174
becomes a part of the mainstream
1436
01:09:06,176 --> 01:09:07,876
when you have such
a popular show
1437
01:09:07,878 --> 01:09:10,512
like Beavis and Butthead
featuring Death.
1438
01:09:10,514 --> 01:09:12,614
- And the fact that
Chuck's only real job
1439
01:09:12,616 --> 01:09:15,884
was in a Del Taco when
he was a teenager.
1440
01:09:15,886 --> 01:09:17,318
I think that's classic.
1441
01:09:21,525 --> 01:09:24,392
- I think saw this
dude in Burger World once.
1442
01:09:25,795 --> 01:09:27,795
- I'd like
two tacos please
1443
01:09:29,432 --> 01:09:31,232
and a small order of fries!
1444
01:09:35,572 --> 01:09:37,205
- That was pretty good, Beavis.
1445
01:09:38,642 --> 01:09:40,742
You suck almost as
much as this dude.
1446
01:10:15,745 --> 01:10:18,713
- We heard the stories
of the previous cycles
1447
01:10:18,715 --> 01:10:22,550
and I think me and Gene
had kind of committed
1448
01:10:22,552 --> 01:10:26,854
to each other to
kind of preempt that
1449
01:10:26,856 --> 01:10:28,356
as much as we could.
1450
01:10:28,358 --> 01:10:30,809
Like whatever was in our power
1451
01:10:30,810 --> 01:10:33,261
just as Chuck's buddy but I
think there were a few times
1452
01:10:33,263 --> 01:10:35,563
that some stressful
moment would come up,
1453
01:10:35,565 --> 01:10:37,232
I don't know if Chuck
was having family issues
1454
01:10:37,234 --> 01:10:38,800
at home or maybe
there was some kind
1455
01:10:38,802 --> 01:10:40,335
of bullshit with management.
1456
01:10:40,337 --> 01:10:42,604
Whatever the fact, when
he would get that tense
1457
01:10:42,606 --> 01:10:46,774
kind of irritated
like almost ready
1458
01:10:46,776 --> 01:10:49,277
to do something,
whatever that may be,
1459
01:10:49,279 --> 01:10:51,746
me and Gene would step
in with a calm voice
1460
01:10:51,748 --> 01:10:54,549
and just assure we're
there, we wanna finish.
1461
01:10:54,551 --> 01:10:57,385
We wanna trudge on
and I think sometimes
1462
01:10:57,387 --> 01:10:59,454
it pulled Chuck back
in 'cause we were able
1463
01:10:59,456 --> 01:11:01,789
to finish all the
dates and everything.
1464
01:11:01,791 --> 01:11:04,692
- Individual Thought
Patterns was an angry record.
1465
01:11:04,694 --> 01:11:07,662
Angry lyrically
because he was just,
1466
01:11:07,664 --> 01:11:09,697
that was how he got
out his aggression
1467
01:11:09,699 --> 01:11:12,667
at a very volatile time for him,
1468
01:11:13,870 --> 01:11:17,805
at a time when we were at
odds with our partnership.
1469
01:11:17,807 --> 01:11:19,474
- A lot
of the new lyrics
1470
01:11:19,476 --> 01:11:23,778
reflect that what comes around
goes around type attitude.
1471
01:11:23,780 --> 01:11:25,313
I am set in my ways.
1472
01:11:25,315 --> 01:11:27,615
I'm going to continue
doing what I do.
1473
01:11:27,617 --> 01:11:31,319
It's what I enjoy and what
I know best how to do.
1474
01:11:31,321 --> 01:11:33,021
If I didn't do this I
don't know what I'd do.
1475
01:11:33,023 --> 01:11:34,522
Maybe I'd be a cook.
1476
01:11:34,524 --> 01:11:36,291
I like cooking.
1477
01:11:36,293 --> 01:11:37,692
That's pretty limited.
1478
01:12:10,894 --> 01:12:12,861
- He put a lot of meaning.
1479
01:12:12,862 --> 01:12:14,829
There was some stuff if
you read between the lines.
1480
01:12:14,831 --> 01:12:17,899
It was a way for him
to express himself
1481
01:12:17,901 --> 01:12:20,001
and he was honest about stuff
1482
01:12:20,003 --> 01:12:23,438
but he was a whole lot
bigger than his music.
1483
01:12:24,808 --> 01:12:26,341
- It's obvious he
was a complex guy.
1484
01:12:26,343 --> 01:12:27,475
Everybody knows that.
1485
01:12:29,846 --> 01:12:32,513
It wasn't like he was
personally attacking people.
1486
01:12:32,515 --> 01:12:33,848
It wasn't like that.
1487
01:12:33,850 --> 01:12:36,684
- He was wound a little
tighter than most people
1488
01:12:36,686 --> 01:12:39,787
so I think sometimes when
those stress issues came up,
1489
01:12:40,657 --> 01:12:42,423
he was right on his last coil
1490
01:12:42,425 --> 01:12:45,727
and it just got to him
so we would see times
1491
01:12:45,729 --> 01:12:47,061
where he would
drift into that mode
1492
01:12:47,063 --> 01:12:52,133
but I think a combination
of having maybe guys
1493
01:12:53,436 --> 01:12:54,569
that were determined
like me and Gene,
1494
01:12:54,571 --> 01:12:58,906
trying to bring an air of
calm to the environment
1495
01:12:58,908 --> 01:13:02,677
plus I think Chuck
was maturing too.
1496
01:13:02,679 --> 01:13:03,878
We were all getting older.
1497
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:07,582
I think he was able to
control himself too.
1498
01:13:07,584 --> 01:13:10,885
It just seemed to go a
little smoother that year.
1499
01:13:25,101 --> 01:13:27,402
When Symbolic songs
were being written
1500
01:13:27,404 --> 01:13:29,570
I was gonna be in
the lineup for that
1501
01:13:29,572 --> 01:13:30,838
and I was called to Florida
1502
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,141
to work on the new song
ideas with him and Gene.
1503
01:13:33,143 --> 01:13:35,777
- Yeah, I essentially
moved into Chuck's place
1504
01:13:35,779 --> 01:13:39,914
for a long time, him,
myself and Steve DiGiorgio.
1505
01:13:39,916 --> 01:13:42,049
We had an eight
track recorder now
1506
01:13:42,051 --> 01:13:43,684
which was still
not a lot of tracks
1507
01:13:43,686 --> 01:13:46,754
but I remember we,
there was no way
1508
01:13:46,756 --> 01:13:48,990
we were gonna get
the decent drum sound
1509
01:13:48,992 --> 01:13:51,592
to make demos, it just
wasn't gonna happen
1510
01:13:51,594 --> 01:13:53,895
so we would work out
the songs, we'd play 'em
1511
01:13:53,897 --> 01:13:55,563
and I had my drum
machine with me
1512
01:13:55,565 --> 01:13:57,865
but what I did was I just
took my drum machine.
1513
01:13:57,867 --> 01:13:59,801
Everything that we'd
play in the afternoon
1514
01:13:59,803 --> 01:14:02,036
I'd spend hours at
night replicating
1515
01:14:02,038 --> 01:14:03,438
on the drum machine.
1516
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:04,772
Then we'd have a
great sounding demo
1517
01:14:04,774 --> 01:14:07,642
where I'm the drum machine.
1518
01:14:07,644 --> 01:14:09,811
I'm playing exactly
what I'm playing live.
1519
01:14:17,987 --> 01:14:19,954
- And I recorded the
demo version of the song
1520
01:14:19,956 --> 01:14:22,557
and then my first
kid was being born
1521
01:14:22,559 --> 01:14:25,893
and Chuck was in a really
determined busy mode
1522
01:14:25,895 --> 01:14:27,128
and I wasn't able
to commit the time
1523
01:14:27,130 --> 01:14:28,996
so I wasn't able
to finish Symbolic.
1524
01:14:33,169 --> 01:14:36,571
- I can only speak to the
guy that I knew really well
1525
01:14:36,573 --> 01:14:38,940
and I know the guy I worked with
1526
01:14:38,942 --> 01:14:40,641
was really fun to be around
1527
01:14:40,643 --> 01:14:43,878
and really
artistically creative.
1528
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:45,413
It was our first record together
1529
01:14:45,414 --> 01:14:46,947
but we had known each
other for probably seven
1530
01:14:46,950 --> 01:14:48,683
or eight years before that
1531
01:14:48,685 --> 01:14:49,851
'cause he'd been
working with Scott
1532
01:14:49,853 --> 01:14:50,952
so we'd see each
other in hallways,
1533
01:14:50,954 --> 01:14:52,854
go out to lunch and hang out.
1534
01:14:52,856 --> 01:14:55,089
When he first came to me to
say would you do the record
1535
01:14:55,091 --> 01:14:57,892
I said if you
really wanna do this
1536
01:14:57,894 --> 01:14:58,826
let's do it right.
1537
01:14:58,828 --> 01:15:01,062
Let's leave no stone unturned.
1538
01:15:01,064 --> 01:15:02,797
So he was very excited
about doing it.
1539
01:15:02,799 --> 01:15:05,500
He had no intrepidations
about doing it.
1540
01:15:05,502 --> 01:15:08,169
He just wanted to make
sure that we didn't
1541
01:15:08,171 --> 01:15:10,905
just say okay,
that's good enough.
1542
01:15:10,907 --> 01:15:13,508
It was always no,
is that good enough?
1543
01:15:13,510 --> 01:15:14,742
Yes, that's good enough.
1544
01:15:14,744 --> 01:15:16,177
Okay, let's try harder,
let's do it even more
1545
01:15:16,179 --> 01:15:20,014
and Chuck really wanting
to make a big step forward
1546
01:15:20,016 --> 01:15:21,883
on the record all
at the same time
1547
01:15:21,885 --> 01:15:25,286
and he kind of wanted to break
his own mold a little bit.
1548
01:15:25,288 --> 01:15:26,988
- There was no hiatus going on.
1549
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:28,990
There just wasn't a
lot of live activity.
1550
01:15:28,992 --> 01:15:31,959
I know there was Voodoo
Club and then Voodoo Cult
1551
01:15:31,961 --> 01:15:33,694
but I didn't know that
Chuck was like yeah,
1552
01:15:33,696 --> 01:15:35,897
I did some project some guy.
1553
01:15:35,899 --> 01:15:37,098
- , he
did produce a lot
1554
01:15:37,100 --> 01:15:39,133
of the early Century
Media records
1555
01:15:39,135 --> 01:15:40,735
and he was also .
1556
01:15:41,804 --> 01:15:43,237
I think that was
his project mostly.
1557
01:15:43,239 --> 01:15:46,240
It was kind of this
early super group.
1558
01:15:46,242 --> 01:15:48,609
You didn't have a lot of metal
super groups at that time
1559
01:15:48,611 --> 01:15:50,011
and that was one
of the first ones
1560
01:15:50,013 --> 01:15:52,079
but it didn't have a US release,
1561
01:15:52,081 --> 01:15:53,281
I don't believe it did.
1562
01:15:54,183 --> 01:15:55,616
You can only get
it on import here
1563
01:15:55,618 --> 01:15:56,984
and it just didn't do that well
1564
01:15:56,986 --> 01:15:58,185
and I remember listening to it
1565
01:15:58,187 --> 01:16:00,121
and thinking that's too bad.
1566
01:16:00,123 --> 01:16:01,622
All these great
guys on one record
1567
01:16:01,624 --> 01:16:03,291
and it's just not that great.
1568
01:16:03,293 --> 01:16:06,694
- When I eventually did end
up getting a call from him
1569
01:16:06,696 --> 01:16:09,063
to see if I would be
interested in auditioning
1570
01:16:11,701 --> 01:16:12,967
we remembered that day,
remembered that afternoon.
1571
01:16:12,969 --> 01:16:14,902
We actually had a mutual friend.
1572
01:16:14,904 --> 01:16:17,204
John worked at this
store called Guitars Plus
1573
01:16:17,206 --> 01:16:18,940
which was in downtown Orlando
1574
01:16:20,076 --> 01:16:22,076
and he just called my
house and left a message.
1575
01:16:22,078 --> 01:16:23,344
Bobby, pick up the phone.
1576
01:16:23,346 --> 01:16:24,845
Bobby, pick up the phone.
1577
01:16:26,049 --> 01:16:29,850
God damn it, Bobby,
why aren't you home?
1578
01:16:30,954 --> 01:16:34,589
- So we kind of had that
guitar spot still open
1579
01:16:34,591 --> 01:16:36,190
which we were looking
for a permanent player
1580
01:16:36,192 --> 01:16:38,926
and we found Bobby Koelble.
1581
01:16:38,928 --> 01:16:40,995
He's an excellent guitar player
1582
01:16:40,997 --> 01:16:43,831
and he plays really
from his heart and soul
1583
01:16:43,833 --> 01:16:45,232
which is very important.
1584
01:16:45,234 --> 01:16:47,301
We need to keep things
running smoothly
1585
01:16:47,303 --> 01:16:49,670
and we need to have the
right people in the band
1586
01:16:49,672 --> 01:16:52,640
and this I feel is a
very good band right now.
1587
01:16:52,642 --> 01:16:53,874
It's excellent.
1588
01:16:53,876 --> 01:16:55,943
- So I got home and
I heard it, I'm like.
1589
01:16:55,945 --> 01:16:57,945
Obviously I called him back.
1590
01:16:57,947 --> 01:16:59,313
He's like dude, do you
remember that afternoon
1591
01:16:59,315 --> 01:17:01,148
at Dave's place and
I was like yeah man,
1592
01:17:01,150 --> 01:17:02,350
I remember that.
1593
01:17:02,352 --> 01:17:03,784
He was like yeah, that
was awesome right?
1594
01:17:03,786 --> 01:17:05,052
And I was like yeah, cool.
1595
01:17:11,194 --> 01:17:15,162
- For Symbolic, Chuck's
riffs were starting
1596
01:17:15,164 --> 01:17:20,234
to really explore his
love of 80s power metal.
1597
01:17:21,037 --> 01:17:23,938
It's like he went back 10 years
1598
01:17:23,940 --> 01:17:26,941
and really started
letting his metal flow.
1599
01:17:26,943 --> 01:17:29,276
- And he wanted to
really inject more
1600
01:17:29,278 --> 01:17:31,345
of a melodic content
into death metal
1601
01:17:31,347 --> 01:17:35,116
which is somewhat of a
dichotomy there, right,
1602
01:17:35,118 --> 01:17:36,817
but he really wanted to do it
1603
01:17:36,819 --> 01:17:39,353
so if you listen to
Symbolic and listen
1604
01:17:39,354 --> 01:17:41,888
for the guitar parts,
there's a giant leap forward
1605
01:17:41,891 --> 01:17:45,760
to my year in the melody
content of the guitar parts.
1606
01:17:45,762 --> 01:17:47,161
- Maybe again
some of that was through
1607
01:17:47,163 --> 01:17:51,132
that appreciation for more
power metal structures
1608
01:17:51,134 --> 01:17:53,000
and vocals and things like that.
1609
01:17:53,002 --> 01:17:55,403
He was able to take
those influences
1610
01:17:55,405 --> 01:17:57,038
and translate them
into something
1611
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:58,205
not necessarily more commercial
1612
01:17:58,207 --> 01:18:01,275
but something more
relatable to .
1613
01:18:02,845 --> 01:18:06,213
- I think there's a chunky
sort of heavier direct element
1614
01:18:06,215 --> 01:18:09,116
to Symbolic that we hadn't
heard since Spiritual really.
1615
01:18:10,086 --> 01:18:11,986
I think Chuck started
to bring in some
1616
01:18:11,988 --> 01:18:14,088
of the riffs, bring in
some of the arrangements.
1617
01:18:14,090 --> 01:18:16,057
Make it maybe a
little more memorable.
1618
01:18:16,059 --> 01:18:17,992
- I think that just
came from his influence
1619
01:18:17,994 --> 01:18:20,928
of listening to more
mainstream metal acts
1620
01:18:20,930 --> 01:18:22,547
or even hard rock acts.
1621
01:18:22,548 --> 01:18:24,165
It's well known that he
was a fan of Queensryche
1622
01:18:24,167 --> 01:18:25,399
and all kinds of
different bands.
1623
01:18:25,401 --> 01:18:28,269
He wasn't just a
brutal metal guy,
1624
01:18:28,271 --> 01:18:29,704
only listen to brutal music.
1625
01:18:29,706 --> 01:18:31,939
It was far from it,
you know what I mean?
1626
01:18:31,941 --> 01:18:34,008
But he brought some
of those elements
1627
01:18:34,010 --> 01:18:35,710
but he did it his own way.
1628
01:18:35,712 --> 01:18:38,179
I think the song structure
certainly on Symbolic
1629
01:18:40,116 --> 01:18:43,984
had more metal in it and
not so much brutality
1630
01:18:43,986 --> 01:18:46,153
although it's still brutal
but in a different way,
1631
01:18:46,155 --> 01:18:47,488
you know what I mean?
1632
01:18:47,489 --> 01:18:48,822
Almost even the way
he sang the songs,
1633
01:18:48,825 --> 01:18:50,491
you could almost, he seemed
1634
01:18:50,493 --> 01:18:52,293
to pronounce the
words more clear.
1635
01:18:56,199 --> 01:18:58,299
- There's a stealthy melodic
content to his vocals.
1636
01:18:58,301 --> 01:19:01,135
He wanted to take
melodies and go.
1637
01:19:01,137 --> 01:19:03,237
He wanted to really
drive that direction.
1638
01:19:03,239 --> 01:19:05,039
How do you put more
melody into his music?
1639
01:19:05,041 --> 01:19:06,207
You can't do it
with the guitars.
1640
01:19:06,209 --> 01:19:07,408
He's already really,
really melodic
1641
01:19:07,410 --> 01:19:09,143
so the vocals is the next piece
1642
01:19:09,145 --> 01:19:11,045
and then I heard him sing
and I'm like oh my god,
1643
01:19:11,047 --> 01:19:13,280
you can sing, you're
great at doing this.
1644
01:19:13,282 --> 01:19:15,416
You could sing any
kind of metal stuff
1645
01:19:15,418 --> 01:19:17,151
and he said yeah,
but I don't like
1646
01:19:17,153 --> 01:19:18,152
to sing when I'm playing guitar
1647
01:19:18,154 --> 01:19:19,353
so I have to have a singer.
1648
01:19:19,355 --> 01:19:22,123
I still wish I could
have recorded Chuck
1649
01:19:22,125 --> 01:19:23,524
actually doing the
vocals through it
1650
01:19:23,525 --> 01:19:24,924
and had like another
version of the record
1651
01:19:24,927 --> 01:19:26,193
but that would never go.
1652
01:19:29,532 --> 01:19:31,332
- I think that the
last couple records
1653
01:19:31,334 --> 01:19:35,302
in particular, Symbolic and
The Sound of Perseverance
1654
01:19:35,304 --> 01:19:38,773
were records that I
think they were lost
1655
01:19:38,775 --> 01:19:41,175
to a generation of
early death metal fans
1656
01:19:41,177 --> 01:19:43,878
and I think people
only kinda began
1657
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,347
to rediscover them
as time went on.
1658
01:19:46,349 --> 01:19:48,449
- Because he clearly
he wasn't kind of
1659
01:19:50,887 --> 01:19:53,320
doing the usual
death metal thing.
1660
01:19:53,322 --> 01:19:55,022
He wasn't sticking
to the stereotype.
1661
01:19:55,024 --> 01:19:57,191
He wasn't playing with all the
usual tropes of death metal.
1662
01:19:57,193 --> 01:20:00,327
He was always moving
forward and I think
1663
01:20:00,329 --> 01:20:02,196
by the time Symbolic
had come out
1664
01:20:02,198 --> 01:20:06,333
there really wasn't
that much great
1665
01:20:06,335 --> 01:20:08,002
happening in death
metal at the time anyway
1666
01:20:08,004 --> 01:20:10,504
so naturally he would wanna
distance himself a little bit
1667
01:20:10,506 --> 01:20:14,175
from that and again,
Chuck just wanted Death
1668
01:20:14,177 --> 01:20:17,244
to be a really really
super heavy metal band
1669
01:20:17,246 --> 01:20:20,147
and that's it,
nothing more or less.
1670
01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:23,284
It's just that he was
ensnared by his band's name
1671
01:20:23,286 --> 01:20:26,086
and his band's logo and you
can't get away from that.
1672
01:20:26,088 --> 01:20:28,189
- It's a pretty brutal
name definitely.
1673
01:20:28,191 --> 01:20:30,925
At the time I wanted
something extreme,
1674
01:20:30,927 --> 01:20:34,361
something brutal, shocking
to go along with the music
1675
01:20:34,363 --> 01:20:37,331
and now I would probably
call it something different
1676
01:20:37,333 --> 01:20:39,166
but it's kind of stuck with us.
1677
01:20:39,168 --> 01:20:41,569
I think the name Death
only hinders the band
1678
01:20:41,571 --> 01:20:43,137
to a certain point
but at the same time
1679
01:20:43,139 --> 01:20:45,372
people really dig
it and hopefully
1680
01:20:45,374 --> 01:20:47,625
they just take it as a name
1681
01:20:47,626 --> 01:20:49,877
describing the sound
that we started with.
1682
01:20:49,879 --> 01:20:53,347
- If you had a Jeff
Tate type vocalist,
1683
01:20:53,349 --> 01:20:57,017
a vocalist that would
grasp the invisible orange,
1684
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:00,888
Chuck, that was Chuck's
action right there.
1685
01:21:00,890 --> 01:21:03,490
He would complain
constantly about like,
1686
01:21:03,492 --> 01:21:05,626
I wish I didn't have
to sing on this music.
1687
01:21:05,628 --> 01:21:07,428
I wish I had a real
singer doing this
1688
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:09,396
because then I'd
be really happy.
1689
01:21:09,398 --> 01:21:11,398
- But it wouldn't be Death.
1690
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:14,335
Roadrunner would flip, right,
1691
01:21:14,337 --> 01:21:17,605
if suddenly Chuck sang
and Chuck could sing.
1692
01:21:17,607 --> 01:21:19,306
They would've
flipped because they
1693
01:21:19,308 --> 01:21:22,543
were expecting Death and the
fans were expecting Death
1694
01:21:22,545 --> 01:21:25,112
so what the heck is
Chuck supposed to do?
1695
01:21:26,449 --> 01:21:30,150
So in his mind he invented
Control Denied at that point.
1696
01:21:30,152 --> 01:21:32,019
- I was gonna be more
of a melodic project
1697
01:21:32,021 --> 01:21:34,622
with him just playing guitar
with a different singer
1698
01:21:34,624 --> 01:21:36,423
and he was just kinda like dude,
1699
01:21:36,425 --> 01:21:38,959
I don't wanna deal
with this anymore.
1700
01:21:38,961 --> 01:21:40,928
- He just wanted to
do something bigger.
1701
01:21:40,930 --> 01:21:43,197
He felt like the
death metal thing
1702
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:46,433
had kinda been done
really, really well
1703
01:21:46,435 --> 01:21:49,336
by him and other guys up to that
1704
01:21:49,338 --> 01:21:52,406
and he wanted to say
let's do the next thing.
1705
01:21:52,408 --> 01:21:54,442
Let's go farther.
1706
01:21:54,443 --> 01:21:56,477
- I don't know if
that's something a
lot of people realize
1707
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:59,480
but yeah, Death was
actually over as a band
1708
01:21:59,482 --> 01:22:01,015
after the Symbolic tours.
1709
01:22:02,118 --> 01:22:04,451
At that point in time,
Chuck's relationship
1710
01:22:04,453 --> 01:22:07,388
with Roadrunner had
pretty much gone south.
1711
01:22:07,390 --> 01:22:11,158
- People were getting boxed in.
1712
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:14,094
It became like really,
really a stiff genre
1713
01:22:14,096 --> 01:22:18,132
which is exactly backwards
from the way it got invented.
1714
01:22:18,134 --> 01:22:20,501
The original death metal
stuff was let's be outrageous,
1715
01:22:20,503 --> 01:22:23,337
do new stuff, be
totally different
1716
01:22:23,339 --> 01:22:26,040
and then a few years
later, be totally different
1717
01:22:26,042 --> 01:22:28,309
as long as it's exactly this
and just one little thing.
1718
01:22:28,311 --> 01:22:29,443
Don't go outside of that.
1719
01:22:30,713 --> 01:22:33,013
You don't say that
to Chuck Schuldiner.
1720
01:22:33,015 --> 01:22:34,481
Don't do a thing different
1721
01:22:34,483 --> 01:22:37,351
would not work too
well with Chuck.
1722
01:22:37,353 --> 01:22:42,423
♪ This is not a test of power ♪
1723
01:22:43,125 --> 01:22:47,661
♪ This is not a game ♪
1724
01:22:47,663 --> 01:22:51,999
♪ To be lost or won,
let justice be done ♪
1725
01:22:52,001 --> 01:22:57,037
- We were in Europe for
about probably maybe five
1726
01:22:58,174 --> 01:22:59,440
or six weeks or so,
maybe four weeks,
1727
01:22:59,442 --> 01:23:04,144
and Symbolic was just
coming out at that time
1728
01:23:05,214 --> 01:23:09,616
I remember after or
during, after one show,
1729
01:23:10,486 --> 01:23:13,454
we got the latest
whatever huge magazine
1730
01:23:13,456 --> 01:23:15,522
in Europe it was,
the back cover
1731
01:23:15,524 --> 01:23:20,361
was a Symbolic ad and
it had four other albums
1732
01:23:20,363 --> 01:23:22,463
from four different
death metal bands
1733
01:23:22,465 --> 01:23:24,498
and this is when Chuck
was really trying
1734
01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:27,368
to get away from that
tag, just flat out.
1735
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:29,169
It's what he was trying to do.
1736
01:23:29,171 --> 01:23:30,504
He didn't wanna be
called death metal
1737
01:23:30,506 --> 01:23:33,140
and he called the
record label screaming,
1738
01:23:33,142 --> 01:23:35,409
raging at 'em, I told
you not to do this,
1739
01:23:35,411 --> 01:23:37,177
I told you not to
do this, fuck you,
1740
01:23:37,179 --> 01:23:39,313
I would rather break up my band
1741
01:23:39,315 --> 01:23:41,115
than work for you anymore.
1742
01:23:41,117 --> 01:23:46,186
Then a few days later
I had done something
1743
01:23:46,789 --> 01:23:48,555
to piss him off and I had really
1744
01:23:48,557 --> 01:23:50,524
never done anything
to piss him off before
1745
01:23:50,526 --> 01:23:53,527
but he got pissed
at this and then
1746
01:23:53,529 --> 01:23:55,195
the last 10 days of the tour
1747
01:23:55,197 --> 01:23:58,165
were just absolute misery.
1748
01:23:59,568 --> 01:24:01,602
- We were touring with the
English band Benediction
1749
01:24:01,604 --> 01:24:03,437
and we had a night
off from the tour
1750
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:05,439
but Benediction had
a gig that night.
1751
01:24:05,441 --> 01:24:06,673
It was somewhere in Germany
1752
01:24:06,675 --> 01:24:08,475
and so we ended up
going to the gig
1753
01:24:08,477 --> 01:24:10,177
and we just parked outside
1754
01:24:10,179 --> 01:24:12,179
but we didn't do the gig,
Benediction did the gig.
1755
01:24:12,181 --> 01:24:13,447
So anyway, Benediction
was like oh,
1756
01:24:13,449 --> 01:24:15,049
you gotta come up
and play a song.
1757
01:24:15,051 --> 01:24:16,250
You gotta come up
and play a song.
1758
01:24:16,252 --> 01:24:17,584
It's like alright,
well whatever.
1759
01:24:17,586 --> 01:24:18,819
We'll see what happens.
1760
01:24:18,821 --> 01:24:22,222
Anyway, Chuck stayed on the bus.
1761
01:24:22,224 --> 01:24:24,425
Bryan, bass player
Bryan, Gene and I
1762
01:24:24,427 --> 01:24:26,527
ended up going inside and
checking out the Benediction gig
1763
01:24:26,529 --> 01:24:28,729
and there were like five people
in there in the audience.
1764
01:24:28,731 --> 01:24:30,597
There was nobody there.
1765
01:24:30,599 --> 01:24:32,499
There was like
literally five fans
1766
01:24:32,501 --> 01:24:33,434
standing in front of the stage
1767
01:24:33,436 --> 01:24:34,368
and then other beside from that
1768
01:24:34,370 --> 01:24:36,203
it was just staff of the place.
1769
01:24:36,205 --> 01:24:38,405
So we're just kicking back
having a couple of beers,
1770
01:24:38,407 --> 01:24:40,507
watching the show
and all of a sudden
1771
01:24:40,509 --> 01:24:42,676
Benediction's like we're
gonna have some musicians
1772
01:24:42,678 --> 01:24:44,511
in Death come up
and play a song.
1773
01:24:44,513 --> 01:24:45,712
Me and Brian are
just kind of looking
1774
01:24:45,714 --> 01:24:47,614
at each other like okay,
what's gonna happen?
1775
01:24:47,616 --> 01:24:49,716
And Gene started
getting up on stage.
1776
01:24:49,718 --> 01:24:51,618
It's like okay,
I guess we're on.
1777
01:24:51,620 --> 01:24:54,655
So we went up and
we got up there,
1778
01:24:54,657 --> 01:24:57,591
we're standing around, we
didn't know what to play.
1779
01:24:57,593 --> 01:24:58,525
We're just kind
of standing there
1780
01:24:58,527 --> 01:25:00,561
looking at each other.
1781
01:25:00,563 --> 01:25:02,563
What are we gonna do,
what are we gonna do?
1782
01:25:02,565 --> 01:25:03,764
Well come on,
Gene's like come on,
1783
01:25:03,766 --> 01:25:05,365
let's play something.
1784
01:25:05,367 --> 01:25:06,567
What are we gonna do?
1785
01:25:06,569 --> 01:25:09,136
Okay, Chuck's
nowhere to be found.
1786
01:25:09,138 --> 01:25:12,473
Let's play Zombie
Ritual in front
1787
01:25:12,475 --> 01:25:13,640
of these five German fans
1788
01:25:14,677 --> 01:25:16,643
and our sound guy Paul happened
1789
01:25:16,645 --> 01:25:19,580
to be hanging out there
and who's gonna sing it?
1790
01:25:19,582 --> 01:25:21,248
I don't know, who's
gonna sing it?
1791
01:25:21,250 --> 01:25:23,417
Paul, can you sing Zombie Ritual
1792
01:25:23,419 --> 01:25:25,686
and Paul's kind of like
well, okay I guess.
1793
01:25:25,688 --> 01:25:27,354
So he got up there,
grabbed the mic
1794
01:25:27,356 --> 01:25:29,623
and we plowed
through Zombie Ritual
1795
01:25:29,625 --> 01:25:30,691
and Paul was up
there singing it,
1796
01:25:30,693 --> 01:25:33,460
just kind of having fun with it.
1797
01:25:33,462 --> 01:25:34,728
Anyway, we did it
and that was that.
1798
01:25:34,730 --> 01:25:35,796
We all thought it was harmless.
1799
01:25:35,798 --> 01:25:37,231
Well Chuck found out about it
1800
01:25:37,233 --> 01:25:38,699
and he wasn't very
happy about it.
1801
01:25:38,701 --> 01:25:40,534
The next day he kind
of sat us all down.
1802
01:25:40,536 --> 01:25:42,636
He's like you know what,
that was really not cool
1803
01:25:42,638 --> 01:25:45,205
and disrespectful and basically,
1804
01:25:45,207 --> 01:25:47,508
you shouldn't have done that.
1805
01:25:48,377 --> 01:25:50,544
Very strongly worded
1806
01:25:50,546 --> 01:25:54,281
and no one else
really said anything
1807
01:25:54,283 --> 01:25:56,483
so I just for whatever reason,
1808
01:25:56,485 --> 01:25:57,885
I decided to speak
up, I'm like Chuck,
1809
01:25:57,887 --> 01:25:59,386
we really didn't
mean anything by it.
1810
01:25:59,388 --> 01:26:00,587
It really wasn't
that big of a deal.
1811
01:26:00,589 --> 01:26:02,556
There was no one in the club.
1812
01:26:02,558 --> 01:26:05,192
And he's like you
know what, man?
1813
01:26:05,895 --> 01:26:07,594
You're conjuring a dick.
1814
01:26:08,664 --> 01:26:10,648
I'll never forget that phrase.
1815
01:26:10,649 --> 01:26:12,633
It echoes in my head all
the time ever since then.
1816
01:26:12,635 --> 01:26:13,934
You're conjuring a dick.
1817
01:26:15,204 --> 01:26:16,703
I set you up, I take
care of you guys
1818
01:26:16,705 --> 01:26:19,640
and you go out and you
disrespect me and my music.
1819
01:26:19,642 --> 01:26:21,642
You're conjuring a dick.
1820
01:26:21,644 --> 01:26:23,944
- That last 10 days were
just, they weren't fun.
1821
01:26:23,946 --> 01:26:25,846
They were a real
challenge to get through.
1822
01:26:25,848 --> 01:26:28,248
We got through it
and that's the thing.
1823
01:26:28,250 --> 01:26:29,716
When Chuck broke up the band,
1824
01:26:29,718 --> 01:26:32,686
when he said this is it,
we're done after this
1825
01:26:32,688 --> 01:26:34,421
I was like now I
don't have to quit
1826
01:26:34,423 --> 01:26:35,756
'cause I was quitting
after Symbolic
1827
01:26:35,758 --> 01:26:37,791
because we had started working
1828
01:26:37,793 --> 01:26:41,195
on what was gonna become
The Sound of Perseverance
1829
01:26:41,197 --> 01:26:45,766
and I wasn't super
satisfied myself
1830
01:26:45,768 --> 01:26:47,701
with the direction
things were going.
1831
01:26:47,703 --> 01:26:49,236
I was dreading it
because I was like man,
1832
01:26:49,238 --> 01:26:50,737
I'm really gonna let him down.
1833
01:26:50,739 --> 01:26:52,706
He's probably happy to have
a relatively solid lineup
1834
01:26:52,708 --> 01:26:54,208
together and
probably thinks this
1835
01:26:54,210 --> 01:26:55,609
is gonna go on for a long time
1836
01:26:55,611 --> 01:26:58,212
and he told me something like
1837
01:26:59,515 --> 01:27:01,748
they had prepared all
these Control Denied demos.
1838
01:27:01,750 --> 01:27:03,717
They had the lineup,
they had the logo.
1839
01:27:03,719 --> 01:27:05,669
It was a full band.
1840
01:27:05,670 --> 01:27:07,620
They were ready to move
on to the next step.
1841
01:27:07,623 --> 01:27:09,723
That was to get a budget
from a record company,
1842
01:27:09,725 --> 01:27:13,560
get signed and do
it the real way.
1843
01:27:13,562 --> 01:27:16,296
- The labels didn't wanna gamble
1844
01:27:16,298 --> 01:27:17,764
with Control Denied.
1845
01:27:17,766 --> 01:27:19,866
They didn't wanna gamble
with him changing the name,
1846
01:27:19,868 --> 01:27:22,469
changing the plan because Death
1847
01:27:22,471 --> 01:27:25,606
was an established thing
1848
01:27:25,608 --> 01:27:28,642
and they wanted to
invest in something
1849
01:27:28,644 --> 01:27:30,344
that they knew was more solid
1850
01:27:30,346 --> 01:27:32,746
and they had a better idea
of what he was gonna do.
1851
01:27:33,649 --> 01:27:35,315
- Signs was Nuclear Blast.
1852
01:27:35,317 --> 01:27:36,250
They're the savior.
1853
01:27:36,252 --> 01:27:38,318
They're gonna be so fantastic.
1854
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:39,620
They're my new label.
1855
01:27:40,723 --> 01:27:42,689
But they said we'll do
a Control Denied record
1856
01:27:42,691 --> 01:27:44,691
but we want one
more Death record.
1857
01:27:44,693 --> 01:27:49,763
- In other words, Bite
the Pain, Spirit Crusher,
1858
01:27:50,666 --> 01:27:53,400
Story To Tell, Voice of the Soul
1859
01:27:53,402 --> 01:27:55,802
and a Moment of
Clarity, all five
1860
01:27:55,804 --> 01:27:59,273
were originally
Control Denied songs.
1861
01:28:00,943 --> 01:28:03,744
We had recorded those
as demo versions.
1862
01:28:03,746 --> 01:28:05,512
Chuck had put some clean vocals
1863
01:28:05,514 --> 01:28:07,547
on a couple of those and we
1864
01:28:07,549 --> 01:28:09,916
were auditioning different
singers with those.
1865
01:28:30,406 --> 01:28:32,706
- When I got to
Metal Maniacs in 97
1866
01:28:32,708 --> 01:28:35,575
as a fan of Chuck and Death,
1867
01:28:35,577 --> 01:28:36,843
I had nothing to do with him
1868
01:28:38,414 --> 01:28:43,483
and then suddenly Borivoj
Krgin, he now runs Blabbermouth,
1869
01:28:44,853 --> 01:28:46,653
he was the news columnist
for Maniacs at the time.
1870
01:28:47,890 --> 01:28:49,690
He wrote something
about Control Denied
1871
01:28:49,692 --> 01:28:51,058
that Chuck didn't like.
1872
01:28:51,060 --> 01:28:53,794
It sort of intimated
that Control Denied
1873
01:28:53,796 --> 01:28:55,696
was being put on ice
because he couldn't
1874
01:28:55,698 --> 01:28:58,398
find a record deal and
he was reviving Death
1875
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:00,567
and he even intimated that Death
1876
01:29:00,568 --> 01:29:02,735
was gonna be using some of
these Control Denied riffs
1877
01:29:04,006 --> 01:29:06,440
and Borivoj and
Chuck's relationship
1878
01:29:06,442 --> 01:29:08,875
up to that point had been a
little bit strained already
1879
01:29:08,877 --> 01:29:10,844
so Chuck took that
very personally,
1880
01:29:10,846 --> 01:29:13,580
though Borivoj was slagging him
1881
01:29:13,582 --> 01:29:16,783
or making, kind of cutting
him down a little bit
1882
01:29:17,753 --> 01:29:18,885
and I got the heat on that
1883
01:29:18,887 --> 01:29:20,554
because I printed
what Borivoj said
1884
01:29:20,556 --> 01:29:21,822
without checking with Chuck
1885
01:29:21,824 --> 01:29:23,523
and Chuck came to me directly,
1886
01:29:23,525 --> 01:29:25,592
I think I got a call
one day, it was Chuck,
1887
01:29:25,594 --> 01:29:27,527
before caller ID or whatever
1888
01:29:27,529 --> 01:29:30,731
and we talked and by the
end of the conversation
1889
01:29:30,733 --> 01:29:32,065
he understood that I'm
totally on his side,
1890
01:29:32,067 --> 01:29:35,869
I'm a total fan and
that I don't think,
1891
01:29:35,871 --> 01:29:37,604
I tried to tell him that I don't
1892
01:29:37,606 --> 01:29:39,906
think Borivoj wrote
anything all that negative.
1893
01:29:39,908 --> 01:29:41,775
He was just reporting.
1894
01:29:41,777 --> 01:29:43,410
- But since those
songs were complete
1895
01:29:43,412 --> 01:29:44,878
and it was a last minute deal
1896
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:48,382
because they wanted to
push for that album,
1897
01:29:48,384 --> 01:29:49,616
for another Death album,
1898
01:29:49,618 --> 01:29:52,686
they wanted us to go do
that Dynamo festival,
1899
01:29:52,688 --> 01:29:54,621
headline with Pantera.
1900
01:29:54,623 --> 01:29:56,423
- And when I heard
that I was like,
1901
01:29:57,726 --> 01:30:00,527
it can't even be real
because the Dynamo festival
1902
01:30:00,529 --> 01:30:03,497
is massive and Dynamo
is the third live show
1903
01:30:03,499 --> 01:30:05,432
I'd ever played with the band
1904
01:30:05,434 --> 01:30:07,801
and it's in front of
about 40000 people.
1905
01:30:56,752 --> 01:30:59,986
- So we didn't even really
get much opportunity
1906
01:30:59,988 --> 01:31:02,622
to really even rehearse
for that whole first leg
1907
01:31:02,624 --> 01:31:03,824
of that tour.
1908
01:31:03,826 --> 01:31:05,926
The lineup started
getting a lot tighter
1909
01:31:05,928 --> 01:31:07,761
near the end of
it, around the time
1910
01:31:07,763 --> 01:31:09,029
where it got to
Chile and the shows
1911
01:31:09,031 --> 01:31:10,464
were getting a lot better
1912
01:31:10,466 --> 01:31:12,966
because we were a lot
tighter as a group.
1913
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:36,590
- It wasn't too long after
we finished the American tour
1914
01:31:36,592 --> 01:31:39,309
for Sound of
Perseverance that we
1915
01:31:39,310 --> 01:31:42,027
started working on recording
the Control Denied album
1916
01:31:42,030 --> 01:31:45,665
and I helped Chuck
move from his house
1917
01:31:45,667 --> 01:31:47,000
in Orlando out to his farmhouse,
1918
01:31:47,002 --> 01:31:48,935
we're at his home studio
1919
01:31:48,937 --> 01:31:52,939
and we're moving some heavy
cabinets and things like that
1920
01:31:52,941 --> 01:31:57,777
and I kind of remember
a little bit after that,
1921
01:31:57,779 --> 01:32:00,146
he had some soreness and--
1922
01:32:00,148 --> 01:32:03,683
- I thought he was stressed out.
1923
01:32:03,685 --> 01:32:05,819
We talked about
it a lot and both
1924
01:32:05,821 --> 01:32:07,754
of us thought that the
issues he was having,
1925
01:32:07,756 --> 01:32:09,122
the tension he was
feeling in his neck
1926
01:32:09,124 --> 01:32:11,691
and stuff was
because of tension.
1927
01:32:11,693 --> 01:32:12,926
- He told me early on.
1928
01:32:12,928 --> 01:32:15,028
He told me when he had
like a pain in his neck
1929
01:32:15,030 --> 01:32:16,730
or something, he said that,
1930
01:32:16,732 --> 01:32:18,565
he had asked me if I was
familiar with acupuncture
1931
01:32:18,567 --> 01:32:20,667
and I was like no,
I have no idea.
1932
01:32:20,669 --> 01:32:22,769
He said he was going
to a chiropractor
1933
01:32:22,771 --> 01:32:24,538
to fix a pain in his neck,
it wasn't doing anything.
1934
01:32:24,540 --> 01:32:27,073
- I can't remember
what they did for him.
1935
01:32:27,075 --> 01:32:28,608
They probably made
some adjustments
1936
01:32:28,610 --> 01:32:30,644
which didn't help him obviously.
1937
01:32:30,646 --> 01:32:32,045
Then he went to an acupuncturist
1938
01:32:32,047 --> 01:32:35,615
and from what I understand
she put one needle
1939
01:32:35,617 --> 01:32:37,717
in the back of his
neck and went like this
1940
01:32:37,719 --> 01:32:39,185
and said go get an MRI.
1941
01:32:43,125 --> 01:32:46,126
- It was on his birthday
1942
01:32:47,162 --> 01:32:51,131
and the doctor told him
he had a brain tumor.
1943
01:32:51,133 --> 01:32:54,167
Yeah, I remember that day
like it was yesterday.
1944
01:32:55,137 --> 01:32:56,736
- And he picked me up
early from high school
1945
01:32:56,738 --> 01:33:00,073
which was strange and
it was my grandfather
1946
01:33:00,075 --> 01:33:03,009
and Chuck in Chuck's van,
my grandfather was driving
1947
01:33:03,011 --> 01:33:05,712
and Chuck said I got some
bad news, I'm really sick.
1948
01:33:06,782 --> 01:33:11,084
- And I remember kind
of being horrified
1949
01:33:11,086 --> 01:33:16,156
because I had just not
even given a thought
1950
01:33:17,159 --> 01:33:18,158
to something like that.
1951
01:33:19,795 --> 01:33:21,861
- You don't even
know how to respond
1952
01:33:21,863 --> 01:33:23,296
or react when your best friend
1953
01:33:23,298 --> 01:33:25,599
tells you that they have cancer.
1954
01:33:25,601 --> 01:33:27,067
It was just devastating.
1955
01:33:29,237 --> 01:33:32,706
- They went into the studio to
do the Control Denied record
1956
01:33:32,708 --> 01:33:36,009
and apparently it was
kind of a bad session
1957
01:33:36,011 --> 01:33:38,011
and he called me and he
made a cassette copy,
1958
01:33:38,013 --> 01:33:41,314
mailed it to me and said
will you play on the album?
1959
01:33:41,316 --> 01:33:43,617
So I called him, I
said sure, I'd love to
1960
01:33:43,619 --> 01:33:45,018
'cause I keep
getting called back
1961
01:33:45,020 --> 01:33:47,654
and when he sent me that tape,
1962
01:33:47,656 --> 01:33:49,723
I told him I'd like to
listen to it for a few weeks
1963
01:33:49,725 --> 01:33:52,859
and absorb it and
really get into it
1964
01:33:52,861 --> 01:33:55,195
and he's like no, I need
you to come tomorrow.
1965
01:33:55,197 --> 01:33:57,764
This is already overdue
so we don't have any time
1966
01:33:57,766 --> 01:33:59,165
to spare, you need to get here
1967
01:33:59,167 --> 01:34:00,200
and just get it recorded.
1968
01:34:00,202 --> 01:34:03,136
And so I said okay,
well I'll come straight
1969
01:34:03,138 --> 01:34:05,805
to your house, we'll
just go over everything.
1970
01:34:05,807 --> 01:34:07,941
Just push play, sit
there and jam with it
1971
01:34:07,943 --> 01:34:09,209
and I'll just learn it.
1972
01:34:09,211 --> 01:34:13,046
I'll just crash course,
learn as fast as I can.
1973
01:34:13,048 --> 01:34:13,947
He says okay.
1974
01:34:15,384 --> 01:34:17,651
The next day comes
and he calls me
1975
01:34:17,653 --> 01:34:19,152
and he says you all set to come?
1976
01:34:19,154 --> 01:34:20,153
I said yep.
1977
01:34:20,155 --> 01:34:21,521
He goes well I tell you what,
1978
01:34:21,522 --> 01:34:22,888
I'm not gonna be here
when you get here.
1979
01:34:22,891 --> 01:34:25,258
I need to go to New
York for radiation.
1980
01:34:25,260 --> 01:34:30,030
Whoa, okay, that's
heavy in two places.
1981
01:34:30,032 --> 01:34:31,331
Obviously the first
one being wow,
1982
01:34:31,333 --> 01:34:33,333
you're going to get
radiation but then
1983
01:34:33,335 --> 01:34:35,168
I said what am I gonna do?
1984
01:34:36,238 --> 01:34:38,004
I heard this stuff
like a day ago
1985
01:34:38,006 --> 01:34:40,740
and I need to record
all eight songs.
1986
01:34:40,742 --> 01:34:43,109
So he says well Shannon
will help you out.
1987
01:34:43,111 --> 01:34:44,377
Okay.
1988
01:34:44,379 --> 01:34:47,280
- It happened fairly fast.
1989
01:34:47,282 --> 01:34:49,282
By the time we
finished the album
1990
01:34:52,087 --> 01:34:54,821
he was already in New York
1991
01:34:54,823 --> 01:34:57,257
when Steve flew here
and I was showing Steve
1992
01:34:57,259 --> 01:34:59,225
all of the songs and
we went over there
1993
01:34:59,227 --> 01:35:00,927
to do his bass tracks.
1994
01:35:02,264 --> 01:35:05,031
At that point Chuck was
actually in New York at NYU
1995
01:35:05,867 --> 01:35:07,200
being operated on.
1996
01:35:11,873 --> 01:35:16,943
♪ Painting pictures of
what we would like to see ♪
1997
01:35:26,121 --> 01:35:30,323
♪ The vision is
taking judge of him ♪
1998
01:35:35,230 --> 01:35:37,363
- Me and Jim, we would
take a couple minute break
1999
01:35:37,365 --> 01:35:38,798
from playing, we'd sit
there and we'd just
2000
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:40,133
go this is unbelievable.
2001
01:35:40,135 --> 01:35:42,802
We had his number where
he was staying up there
2002
01:35:42,804 --> 01:35:45,205
and we talked to him
several times every day
2003
01:35:45,207 --> 01:35:47,140
and played him parts of songs
2004
01:35:47,142 --> 01:35:48,775
for him to kind of approve
2005
01:35:48,777 --> 01:35:50,210
and make sure we were
on the right track
2006
01:35:50,212 --> 01:35:52,378
and so we called
him on the phone
2007
01:35:52,380 --> 01:35:55,815
and held the phone up
to the studio monitor
2008
01:35:55,817 --> 01:35:57,050
and just let the song roll
2009
01:35:57,052 --> 01:35:58,485
and me and Jim were
looking at each other
2010
01:35:58,487 --> 01:36:01,254
like kind of remembering
how we finished up laughing,
2011
01:36:01,256 --> 01:36:03,990
like it's cool, remember,
ah, remember that?
2012
01:36:03,992 --> 01:36:06,426
And so after the song's
over go to the phone
2013
01:36:06,428 --> 01:36:10,396
and Florida to New York,
a little bit long distance
2014
01:36:10,398 --> 01:36:11,865
so I hear this
.
2015
01:36:13,468 --> 01:36:14,901
I thought we lost the connection
2016
01:36:14,903 --> 01:36:16,369
'cause I had held the
phone for the whole four
2017
01:36:16,371 --> 01:36:18,538
or five minutes,
however long the song is
2018
01:36:18,540 --> 01:36:20,507
so maybe at some
point we got cut off.
2019
01:36:21,476 --> 01:36:22,842
Chuck, are you there?
2020
01:36:23,979 --> 01:36:26,546
And I here this kind
of choked up voice.
2021
01:36:26,548 --> 01:36:27,447
Yeah, I'm here.
2022
01:36:28,483 --> 01:36:29,816
What happened?
2023
01:36:29,818 --> 01:36:31,818
Nothing, I was
listening to the song.
2024
01:36:31,820 --> 01:36:33,253
I said oh, you
didn't say nothing.
2025
01:36:33,255 --> 01:36:34,821
I thought you left off.
2026
01:36:34,823 --> 01:36:37,190
He goes, then I could hear him.
2027
01:36:37,192 --> 01:36:39,392
It sounded kind of like he
was sobbing a little bit.
2028
01:36:39,394 --> 01:36:40,794
What's the matter, man?
2029
01:36:40,795 --> 01:36:42,195
He goes that was the
best get well card
2030
01:36:42,197 --> 01:36:44,281
I've ever heard in my life.
2031
01:36:44,282 --> 01:36:46,366
And I just, right then give
the phone right to Jim.
2032
01:36:46,368 --> 01:36:47,400
I was like I'm out.
2033
01:36:48,370 --> 01:36:51,104
I had to just compose myself
2034
01:36:51,106 --> 01:36:52,305
'cause he was up there.
2035
01:36:53,208 --> 01:36:55,074
He's used to being
part of the session
2036
01:36:55,076 --> 01:36:56,409
and I told him,
I said first time
2037
01:36:56,411 --> 01:36:58,278
in my life I've
ever been in Florida
2038
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:00,246
without him there,
the first time,
2039
01:37:00,248 --> 01:37:02,482
and not only was
I just in Florida
2040
01:37:02,484 --> 01:37:04,083
but I was working on his record
2041
01:37:04,085 --> 01:37:06,286
and he wasn't there
like he always is
2042
01:37:06,288 --> 01:37:08,488
and to hear him react
like that, I was just ...
2043
01:37:09,591 --> 01:37:11,291
♪ When it's all said and done ♪
2044
01:37:11,293 --> 01:37:15,361
♪ What is left to really say ♪
2045
01:37:15,363 --> 01:37:20,433
♪ To be one turns to none
now we are just yesterday ♪
2046
01:37:36,618 --> 01:37:38,284
- I just felt terrible.
2047
01:37:38,286 --> 01:37:40,420
This is my friend
that's in trouble,
2048
01:37:40,422 --> 01:37:43,356
really bad trouble,
and it's getting worse
2049
01:37:43,358 --> 01:37:45,325
and I really would
like him to know,
2050
01:37:47,996 --> 01:37:48,862
I'm sorry.
2051
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:53,299
I would really like him to know
2052
01:37:53,301 --> 01:37:55,368
how important he was
to me as a human being.
2053
01:38:06,014 --> 01:38:08,581
- It was weird because
he just always assured us
2054
01:38:08,583 --> 01:38:10,450
that even though something scary
2055
01:38:10,452 --> 01:38:11,918
and serious was going on,
2056
01:38:11,920 --> 01:38:13,186
he always kind of
had this assurance
2057
01:38:13,188 --> 01:38:15,555
that it was okay, he was
gonna go get it treated.
2058
01:38:15,557 --> 01:38:18,391
- And he actually did start
getting better after that
2059
01:38:18,393 --> 01:38:20,093
and that's when
we started working
2060
01:38:20,095 --> 01:38:23,930
on this follow,
the second record.
2061
01:38:25,333 --> 01:38:28,468
- So much time had gone by
from the recording of it,
2062
01:38:28,470 --> 01:38:31,471
the patching of the
bass tracks and all that
2063
01:38:31,473 --> 01:38:34,207
that he was busy
writing and he was ready
2064
01:38:34,209 --> 01:38:35,675
for the next album right away
2065
01:38:35,677 --> 01:38:38,578
'cause I had recorded
bass in the middle of 99
2066
01:38:38,580 --> 01:38:43,549
and by the next year, he
had all kinds of new stuff
2067
01:38:43,551 --> 01:38:47,086
and he was working on
it extensively with
Richard Christie.
2068
01:38:47,088 --> 01:38:50,390
- I remember
rehearsing and Chuck
2069
01:38:50,392 --> 01:38:52,592
writing the second
Control Denied album
2070
01:38:52,594 --> 01:38:57,096
and I just remember
us being so excited
2071
01:38:57,098 --> 01:38:59,399
for this second album and Chuck
2072
01:38:59,401 --> 01:39:00,500
was so proud of the music.
2073
01:39:00,502 --> 01:39:02,101
We were so well-rehearsed.
2074
01:39:02,103 --> 01:39:05,104
I went in there and we
did the drums in one day
2075
01:39:06,141 --> 01:39:09,142
and I remember Jim
Morris too looking at me
2076
01:39:09,144 --> 01:39:12,679
and looking at Chuck and he
was like what's going on here?
2077
01:39:12,681 --> 01:39:17,050
He was like, it was such
crazy, unique, innovative music
2078
01:39:17,052 --> 01:39:20,420
that Jim Morris just didn't
know what to think of it.
2079
01:39:21,489 --> 01:39:24,691
- And all of a sudden
it hit him again.
2080
01:39:27,629 --> 01:39:32,465
With this album, When
Man and Machine Collide,
2081
01:39:32,467 --> 01:39:35,468
he had taken home
those for that reason.
2082
01:39:35,470 --> 01:39:38,371
He had taken home
Richard's drum tracks
2083
01:39:38,373 --> 01:39:41,607
and put 'em on a
little eight track
2084
01:39:41,609 --> 01:39:44,544
digital hard disc
recorder so that he
2085
01:39:44,546 --> 01:39:46,212
could work on it at
home and he wouldn't
2086
01:39:46,214 --> 01:39:47,613
be sitting there at Morris Sound
2087
01:39:47,615 --> 01:39:49,749
where time is money.
2088
01:39:49,751 --> 01:39:52,585
Of course that's
what led to us having
2089
01:39:52,587 --> 01:39:54,654
to extract all this
stuff from that machine
2090
01:39:54,656 --> 01:39:56,723
and all the other issues
we've run into since
2091
01:39:56,725 --> 01:39:59,392
but that was the primary reason
2092
01:39:59,394 --> 01:40:04,464
is because he knew that
he didn't have the stamina
2093
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:08,434
or the endurance to play
through the whole thing
2094
01:40:08,436 --> 01:40:10,103
and do it in a timely fashion
2095
01:40:10,105 --> 01:40:12,238
so he just wanted
to bring it home.
2096
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:15,341
- There's a possibility
of finishing an album.
2097
01:40:16,511 --> 01:40:19,412
The amount of work that
would have to go into it
2098
01:40:19,414 --> 01:40:22,615
is tremendous to do it right
2099
01:40:23,685 --> 01:40:26,419
which is what Chuck
told me had to be done.
2100
01:40:27,555 --> 01:40:30,023
My last conversation
on the phone with Chuck
2101
01:40:31,159 --> 01:40:33,359
was I want you to
finish the record
2102
01:40:33,361 --> 01:40:36,462
if you can but don't fuck it up.
2103
01:40:36,464 --> 01:40:38,498
If you can't do a
good job don't do it.
2104
01:40:48,043 --> 01:40:52,678
- So at that point,
I don't think we ever
2105
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:54,547
really came close.
2106
01:40:54,549 --> 01:40:57,350
There was a brief
moment where we
2107
01:40:57,352 --> 01:40:58,718
had considered going to Italy
2108
01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:00,586
and opening up for Metallica
2109
01:41:00,588 --> 01:41:02,088
at the God's of Rock Festival
2110
01:41:02,090 --> 01:41:03,322
which would have
been the biggest show
2111
01:41:03,324 --> 01:41:06,359
that Death had
ever done and Chuck
2112
01:41:06,361 --> 01:41:09,629
literally waited until
about the last week
2113
01:41:09,631 --> 01:41:12,765
before canceling to
see if he could do it
2114
01:41:12,767 --> 01:41:15,334
'cause he was having
problems with his left arm.
2115
01:41:15,336 --> 01:41:18,071
His whole left side was just,
2116
01:41:19,174 --> 01:41:21,507
he had no control
of his motor skills
2117
01:41:21,509 --> 01:41:23,743
so he couldn't
really count on it
2118
01:41:23,745 --> 01:41:28,815
and we rehearsed quite a
bit to strengthen him up
2119
01:41:29,250 --> 01:41:31,851
but he would have good days
and he would have bad days.
2120
01:41:35,390 --> 01:41:37,523
- Chuck's a fighter and Chuck
2121
01:41:37,525 --> 01:41:40,226
had a really positive
attitude about it.
2122
01:41:41,529 --> 01:41:42,762
I can't imagine how scary it is
2123
01:41:42,764 --> 01:41:44,697
to go through
something like that
2124
01:41:45,633 --> 01:41:48,234
and Chuck has the
greatest family
2125
01:41:48,236 --> 01:41:49,602
that anybody could ever ask for.
2126
01:41:49,604 --> 01:41:51,771
They were always there with him
2127
01:41:51,773 --> 01:41:54,574
and encouraging him and
they were like you know,
2128
01:41:54,576 --> 01:41:56,609
we're gonna do
whatever it takes.
2129
01:41:57,512 --> 01:41:58,778
- I was constantly on the phone
2130
01:41:58,780 --> 01:42:00,513
trying to find new doctors
and we would travel
2131
01:42:00,515 --> 01:42:02,682
and when one doctor
would say no,
2132
01:42:02,684 --> 01:42:04,884
we don't have anything,
that just meant to me
2133
01:42:04,886 --> 01:42:07,420
that they didn't
know what to do.
2134
01:42:07,422 --> 01:42:08,688
There must be somebody.
2135
01:42:08,690 --> 01:42:10,223
In my mind there
had to be somebody
2136
01:42:10,225 --> 01:42:11,691
that knew what to do and Chuck
2137
01:42:11,693 --> 01:42:14,193
told me I feel like I'm standing
2138
01:42:14,195 --> 01:42:16,896
at the edge of a cliff
with one foot off
2139
01:42:18,533 --> 01:42:20,399
and when he said
that to me I knew
2140
01:42:20,401 --> 01:42:22,468
we just have to try everything.
2141
01:42:28,610 --> 01:42:31,611
- I ended up calling him.
2142
01:42:31,613 --> 01:42:33,212
He was already like really sick
2143
01:42:34,582 --> 01:42:38,885
and so I called him up on
the phone just to say hi
2144
01:42:39,888 --> 01:42:41,354
and he sounded
terrible on the phone.
2145
01:42:41,356 --> 01:42:42,588
It was really kind
of heart breaking
2146
01:42:42,590 --> 01:42:43,723
but we talked for
a couple minutes
2147
01:42:43,725 --> 01:42:45,324
and that was about
all he could do
2148
01:42:45,326 --> 01:42:47,493
'cause he was really
pretty zonked out
2149
01:42:47,495 --> 01:42:49,729
with everything
that was going on
2150
01:42:49,731 --> 01:42:50,930
and I remember telling
him for some reason
2151
01:42:50,932 --> 01:42:52,665
about the new Voivod album.
2152
01:42:52,667 --> 01:42:54,500
I'm like dude, you've
gotta hear the new Voivod.
2153
01:42:54,502 --> 01:42:55,334
It's insane.
2154
01:42:55,336 --> 01:42:56,802
He's like oh yeah, cool.
2155
01:42:59,774 --> 01:43:01,440
Yeah.
2156
01:43:01,442 --> 01:43:03,843
We did have this thing
from Make Them Die Slowly
2157
01:43:03,845 --> 01:43:08,381
where one of the
cannibals goes
2158
01:43:08,383 --> 01:43:09,482
and the other one
goes
2159
01:43:09,484 --> 01:43:10,683
and so we got one of those in
2160
01:43:10,685 --> 01:43:11,751
in that last conversation.
2161
01:43:11,753 --> 01:43:13,719
It was kind of a weak
2162
01:43:13,721 --> 01:43:15,254
but he still did it.
2163
01:43:15,256 --> 01:43:16,589
I was like alright,
that's cool man.
2164
01:43:16,591 --> 01:43:18,491
And that was the
last time we talked.
2165
01:43:20,628 --> 01:43:23,262
- And they did one
more hail Mary pass
2166
01:43:24,599 --> 01:43:28,668
and that was there was a drug
2167
01:43:28,670 --> 01:43:30,836
and it was still at
an experimental stage
2168
01:43:30,838 --> 01:43:33,439
and they really didn't know
about dosing at the time
2169
01:43:33,441 --> 01:43:37,543
and they agreed to take the risk
2170
01:43:37,545 --> 01:43:39,979
as a last ditch effort
to save his life.
2171
01:43:42,217 --> 01:43:43,683
- So when we got back to Florida
2172
01:43:45,253 --> 01:43:46,786
he could barely walk and we
went right into a hospital
2173
01:43:46,788 --> 01:43:48,788
and then I showed him the
pretty little pamphlet
2174
01:43:48,790 --> 01:43:50,456
they gave me with the
pretty flower on it
2175
01:43:50,458 --> 01:43:52,858
and they were like
oh god, it's a child.
2176
01:43:54,929 --> 01:43:58,931
♪ The fragile art of existence ♪
2177
01:44:13,381 --> 01:44:16,549
- Nobody could blame anybody
because at that point
2178
01:44:16,551 --> 01:44:17,683
working with this
drug was really
2179
01:44:17,685 --> 01:44:22,755
the only possibility,
as remote as it was
2180
01:44:24,559 --> 01:44:29,629
and I think that when they
knew that it was over,
2181
01:44:30,698 --> 01:44:32,465
I think they decided
to take him home
2182
01:44:33,868 --> 01:44:35,735
and they took him back to Citrus
2183
01:44:37,338 --> 01:44:39,939
and he passed away
within an hour
2184
01:44:39,941 --> 01:44:42,041
of being at home.
2185
01:44:57,959 --> 01:45:02,962
♪ What should have been,
what should have been ♪
2186
01:45:32,760 --> 01:45:34,360
- That band was just,
as far as I'm concerned,
2187
01:45:34,362 --> 01:45:36,495
was responsible for expanding,
2188
01:45:36,497 --> 01:45:39,799
breaking out of that closed box
2189
01:45:39,801 --> 01:45:41,600
'cause death metal
had to be, again,
2190
01:45:41,602 --> 01:45:43,069
had to be brutal all the time
2191
01:45:43,071 --> 01:45:46,105
and I think Chuck is largely
responsible for that,
2192
01:45:46,107 --> 01:45:49,408
of having the balls to
want to do something
2193
01:45:49,410 --> 01:45:51,444
that he wanted to
do and not conform
2194
01:45:51,446 --> 01:45:53,346
to whatever everybody
else thought he should be,
2195
01:45:53,348 --> 01:45:54,613
you know what I mean?
2196
01:45:54,615 --> 01:45:57,683
And that is a testament
to a true musician
2197
01:45:57,685 --> 01:46:00,653
and somebody who
follows his own path
2198
01:46:00,655 --> 01:46:03,489
and not caters to what
he thinks other people
2199
01:46:03,491 --> 01:46:05,658
should think Death should be
2200
01:46:05,660 --> 01:46:08,361
or you should be like this
or you should play, you know.
2201
01:46:08,363 --> 01:46:09,829
- And somewhere there's
a lesson in there
2202
01:46:09,831 --> 01:46:10,763
for all of us.
2203
01:46:10,765 --> 01:46:12,131
Keep wanting to do better
2204
01:46:12,133 --> 01:46:13,966
because you never
know when you're not
2205
01:46:13,968 --> 01:46:16,836
gonna have a chance to do
anything else ever again.
2206
01:46:16,838 --> 01:46:19,505
He is a great example of growth.
2207
01:46:19,507 --> 01:46:22,875
If you wanna know the guy,
listen to the guitar playing
2208
01:46:24,379 --> 01:46:25,945
'cause that's him talking
to you right there.
2209
01:46:25,947 --> 01:46:27,513
That was the guy.
2210
01:46:27,515 --> 01:46:29,148
To me, the best musicians
I've worked with
2211
01:46:29,150 --> 01:46:31,884
are the ones where you
hear them in the notes.
2212
01:46:31,886 --> 01:46:33,986
You hear them and I think that's
2213
01:46:33,988 --> 01:46:36,622
where you get the real
personality of the player.
2214
01:46:39,894 --> 01:46:44,964
♪ When you think of me in
your multidimensional mind ♪
2215
01:46:51,439 --> 01:46:56,509
♪ Try and wash the evil
from your mind and open it ♪
2216
01:47:04,419 --> 01:47:06,886
♪ When you taste the truth ♪
2217
01:47:06,888 --> 01:47:10,556
♪ You will see like
others before me to you ♪
2218
01:47:10,558 --> 01:47:15,628
♪ I am past, a story to tell ♪
2219
01:47:16,931 --> 01:47:19,899
♪ You will see like
others before me to you ♪
2220
01:47:19,901 --> 01:47:23,936
♪ I am now past ♪
2221
01:47:23,938 --> 01:47:26,539
♪ I am past ♪
2222
01:47:33,047 --> 01:47:35,548
- Look, if you
like certain styles
2223
01:47:35,550 --> 01:47:37,016
of death metal or
if you're partial
2224
01:47:37,018 --> 01:47:38,784
to the early brutal
stuff and you don't
2225
01:47:38,786 --> 01:47:42,588
really care about
progressive stuff, fine,
2226
01:47:42,590 --> 01:47:45,991
but to say Death wasn't
a death metal band
2227
01:47:45,993 --> 01:47:47,460
up until the end is just silly.
173886
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