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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:04,372 --> 00:00:05,406 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): This program 2 00:00:05,506 --> 00:00:07,308 is about unsolved mysteries. 3 00:00:07,408 --> 00:00:09,443 Whenever possible, the actual family members 4 00:00:09,543 --> 00:00:11,345 and police officials have participated 5 00:00:11,445 --> 00:00:12,880 in recreating the events. 6 00:00:12,980 --> 00:00:15,483 What you are about to see is not a news broadcast. 7 00:00:15,583 --> 00:00:18,252 [music playing] 8 00:00:20,421 --> 00:00:22,190 Georgia Rudolph has been haunted by dreams 9 00:00:22,290 --> 00:00:23,891 and memories of a young girl who lived 10 00:00:23,991 --> 00:00:25,493 at the turn of the century. 11 00:00:25,593 --> 00:00:29,130 A girl in Georgia never knew, in a place she'd never visited. 12 00:00:29,230 --> 00:00:31,499 Amazingly, her descriptions of the girl's life 13 00:00:31,599 --> 00:00:33,501 appear to be corroborated by facts that she 14 00:00:33,601 --> 00:00:35,769 had no possible way of knowing. 15 00:00:35,869 --> 00:00:40,241 Could George's experiences be evidence of reincarnation? 16 00:00:40,341 --> 00:00:42,176 Rookie police Officer, Steve Sandlin, 17 00:00:42,276 --> 00:00:45,346 was found shot to death in the station house where he worked. 18 00:00:45,446 --> 00:00:48,482 Some believe he stumbled on a case of small town corruption 19 00:00:48,582 --> 00:00:51,018 and was murdered. 20 00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:54,188 We'll also profile a case of a man called Thumper-- 21 00:00:54,288 --> 00:00:56,890 an outlaw biker who travels across the country setting up 22 00:00:56,990 --> 00:00:59,760 illegal drug laboratories to manufacture highly addictive 23 00:00:59,860 --> 00:01:01,595 methamphetamines. 24 00:01:01,695 --> 00:01:03,631 Tonight, with your help, Thumper may 25 00:01:03,731 --> 00:01:05,699 finally be brought to justice. 26 00:01:05,799 --> 00:01:09,170 [music playing] 27 00:01:54,014 --> 00:01:55,949 Reincarnation. 28 00:01:56,049 --> 00:01:59,487 To our ears the word has a eerie ring. 29 00:01:59,587 --> 00:02:01,355 The dictionary definition-- rebirth 30 00:02:01,455 --> 00:02:03,357 of the soul in a new body-- 31 00:02:03,457 --> 00:02:05,092 seems a pale few words that describes 32 00:02:05,193 --> 00:02:07,661 such an extraordinary concept. 33 00:02:07,761 --> 00:02:11,199 Much of the world believes absolutely in reincarnation, 34 00:02:11,299 --> 00:02:13,734 but for people who don't, the onset of dreams 35 00:02:13,834 --> 00:02:15,336 and memories that cannot be explained 36 00:02:15,436 --> 00:02:17,571 is often very upsetting. 37 00:02:17,671 --> 00:02:20,608 That was the case for a woman we found named Georgia Rudolf. 38 00:02:27,381 --> 00:02:28,582 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): For 33 years 39 00:02:28,682 --> 00:02:30,351 Georgia's mind has conjured up visions 40 00:02:30,451 --> 00:02:33,587 of a mysterious young girl. 41 00:02:33,687 --> 00:02:35,789 In one of the most vivid the girl was with an older 42 00:02:35,889 --> 00:02:38,759 woman, perhaps her grandmother. 43 00:02:38,859 --> 00:02:41,495 In all of Georgia's visions neither the time nor the place 44 00:02:41,595 --> 00:02:42,396 is familiar. 45 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,002 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): There's a lot of sensation. 46 00:02:49,102 --> 00:02:51,405 I feel the cold. 47 00:02:51,505 --> 00:02:55,376 I feel the night. 48 00:02:55,476 --> 00:02:57,811 I smell the horses. 49 00:02:57,911 --> 00:03:00,714 I smell the leather. 50 00:03:00,814 --> 00:03:02,950 I can feel the girl-- 51 00:03:03,050 --> 00:03:05,519 but it feels like myself-- 52 00:03:05,619 --> 00:03:11,091 climbing on this carriage and going down the road. 53 00:03:11,191 --> 00:03:15,363 And I can hear the sound of the horse's hooves. 54 00:03:15,463 --> 00:03:19,132 I can feel the movement of the carriage. 55 00:03:28,476 --> 00:03:29,743 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Georgia Rudolph 56 00:03:29,843 --> 00:03:33,714 is a 41-year-old registered nurse living in Macon, Georgia. 57 00:03:33,814 --> 00:03:37,551 Since childhood she's been beset by recurring mental images. 58 00:03:37,651 --> 00:03:40,554 Sometimes they appear as dreams, or often 59 00:03:40,654 --> 00:03:44,592 as memories of an event she has never experienced. 60 00:03:44,692 --> 00:03:45,893 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): There never seemed 61 00:03:45,993 --> 00:03:49,129 to be a common denominator of what 62 00:03:49,229 --> 00:03:51,665 would trigger off the memories. 63 00:03:51,765 --> 00:03:53,601 I would be sitting, playing, or I 64 00:03:53,701 --> 00:03:57,104 would be watching TV and just-- 65 00:03:57,204 --> 00:04:00,073 there would be a memory. 66 00:04:00,173 --> 00:04:02,042 As a child, I don't think there 67 00:04:02,142 --> 00:04:05,546 was a moment that went by that I didn't 68 00:04:05,646 --> 00:04:11,285 have either memories or dreams. 69 00:04:11,385 --> 00:04:12,520 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Georgia Rudolph 70 00:04:12,620 --> 00:04:14,822 was born in Columbus, Ohio. 71 00:04:14,922 --> 00:04:16,357 At the age of three, she was placed 72 00:04:16,457 --> 00:04:18,359 in a series of foster homes. 73 00:04:18,459 --> 00:04:22,396 When she was five Georgia was adopted and the memories began. 74 00:04:22,496 --> 00:04:25,766 [music playing] 75 00:04:29,269 --> 00:04:33,374 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): As a little girl I was different. 76 00:04:33,474 --> 00:04:36,710 I used to draw the picture of this girl 77 00:04:36,810 --> 00:04:41,482 and I would just do stacks after stacks, after stacks, 78 00:04:41,582 --> 00:04:42,816 of this picture. 79 00:04:45,819 --> 00:04:50,223 I've also drawn a picture of a house since I was five, 80 00:04:50,324 --> 00:04:55,262 and then the house would go with the girl. 81 00:04:55,363 --> 00:04:59,266 And if I didn't get her right I would erase her or tear 82 00:04:59,367 --> 00:05:01,369 it up and start all over again. 83 00:05:01,469 --> 00:05:06,006 I knew exactly how this girl was supposed to look. 84 00:05:10,277 --> 00:05:14,815 My whole childhood I thought I was crazy because the drawings 85 00:05:14,915 --> 00:05:18,552 were of the girl that I would dream about. 86 00:05:18,652 --> 00:05:22,556 And when I remember her it's always the drawing. 87 00:05:22,656 --> 00:05:26,660 The face-- I have always known that face. 88 00:05:33,401 --> 00:05:36,069 I've seen her two different ages. 89 00:05:36,169 --> 00:05:43,110 One as a young woman, 18, 19 years old, 90 00:05:43,210 --> 00:05:46,346 and as a young girl-- 91 00:05:46,447 --> 00:05:47,948 probably 8, 9. 92 00:05:57,425 --> 00:05:58,759 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): As Georgia grew older 93 00:05:58,859 --> 00:06:01,462 her impressions of the past began to accumulate. 94 00:06:04,532 --> 00:06:08,135 Often they are no more than a flash of an image, 95 00:06:08,235 --> 00:06:10,237 but curiously, all the images seemed 96 00:06:10,337 --> 00:06:12,072 to come from an earlier time. 97 00:06:12,172 --> 00:06:16,209 A time around the turn of the century. 98 00:06:16,309 --> 00:06:18,679 There were no automobiles, or airplanes, 99 00:06:18,779 --> 00:06:21,449 but there were repeated images of old fashioned 100 00:06:21,549 --> 00:06:25,018 sternwheels, which Georgia, in her lifetime, had never seen. 101 00:06:28,722 --> 00:06:31,659 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): It's not like a childhood memory. 102 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:35,328 It feels different. 103 00:06:35,429 --> 00:06:39,933 It's like taking a picture from my mind, 104 00:06:40,033 --> 00:06:44,037 projecting it on a screen and just 105 00:06:44,137 --> 00:06:47,307 replaying it over and over. 106 00:06:58,486 --> 00:06:59,853 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): A river seemed to play 107 00:06:59,953 --> 00:07:02,823 a large part Georgia's dreams. 108 00:07:02,923 --> 00:07:05,759 Another constant was a young man dressed in a brown suit 109 00:07:05,859 --> 00:07:06,727 and wearing a Derby hat. 110 00:07:10,030 --> 00:07:11,765 Sometimes he was along. 111 00:07:11,865 --> 00:07:14,535 Sometimes her was with a girl, and always it 112 00:07:14,635 --> 00:07:17,070 was a recurring image of a horse drawn carriage 113 00:07:17,170 --> 00:07:18,338 on a cold winter night. 114 00:07:21,274 --> 00:07:24,011 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): I kept feeling that they were memories 115 00:07:24,111 --> 00:07:28,549 of pre-adoption that nobody would tell me about, 116 00:07:28,649 --> 00:07:31,051 but when I found my biological parents I found 117 00:07:31,151 --> 00:07:35,989 that the memories had nothing to do with my life 118 00:07:36,089 --> 00:07:38,158 before I was adopted. 119 00:07:38,258 --> 00:07:41,929 When Georgia first contacted me I felt it might be something 120 00:07:42,029 --> 00:07:44,732 like an early traumatic childhood memory that she was 121 00:07:44,832 --> 00:07:47,868 trying to remember, or re-experience, 122 00:07:47,968 --> 00:07:50,504 or possibly it could be an aspect of a multiple 123 00:07:50,604 --> 00:07:53,874 personality where she was imagining herself, 124 00:07:53,974 --> 00:07:56,544 or experiencing herself to be someone different, 125 00:07:56,644 --> 00:07:59,379 which sometimes happens in these cases. 126 00:07:59,479 --> 00:08:01,148 Other than that, the reincarnation 127 00:08:01,248 --> 00:08:03,050 was probably the last thing in my mind 128 00:08:03,150 --> 00:08:05,919 about what had happened to her. 129 00:08:06,019 --> 00:08:08,288 So we're going to go through a procedure this evening that-- 130 00:08:08,388 --> 00:08:09,590 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Dr. Douglas Smith 131 00:08:09,690 --> 00:08:11,258 is deputy director of a mental health 132 00:08:11,358 --> 00:08:13,026 center in Macon, Georgia. 133 00:08:13,126 --> 00:08:16,296 In 1984, he began regressive hypnosis therapy 134 00:08:16,396 --> 00:08:18,131 with Georgia Rudolf. 135 00:08:18,231 --> 00:08:20,868 It is a type of analysis that lets the patient go back 136 00:08:20,968 --> 00:08:24,337 in time under hypnosis but still remember everything she says. 137 00:08:24,437 --> 00:08:25,873 DOUGLAS SMITH: To let it out very slowly. 138 00:08:25,973 --> 00:08:27,074 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Last December, 139 00:08:27,174 --> 00:08:29,877 we asked Georgia to, once again, undergo hypnosis 140 00:08:29,977 --> 00:08:31,011 with Dr. Smith. 141 00:08:31,111 --> 00:08:33,346 DOUGLAS SMITH: Relaxed and at ease. 142 00:08:33,446 --> 00:08:35,749 Try to allow all the tension to leave your body. 143 00:08:35,849 --> 00:08:39,019 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): During the first session of hypnosis, 144 00:08:39,119 --> 00:08:44,725 he asked me a question, and referred to me as Georgia. 145 00:08:44,825 --> 00:08:48,662 I remember very vividly, saying, I don't 146 00:08:48,762 --> 00:08:52,199 know who you're talking to. 147 00:08:52,299 --> 00:08:57,204 And he said, well if this isn't Georgia, then who is it. 148 00:08:57,304 --> 00:09:04,111 And I remember saying, my name is Sandra Jean Jenkins. 149 00:09:06,747 --> 00:09:08,749 DOUGLAS SMITH: And what year were you born, Sandra? 150 00:09:08,849 --> 00:09:12,052 1895. 151 00:09:12,152 --> 00:09:13,987 DOUGLAS SMITH: Do you have a boyfriend? 152 00:09:14,087 --> 00:09:15,488 Yes. 153 00:09:15,589 --> 00:09:19,126 Georgia seems to me, a very down to earth person. 154 00:09:19,226 --> 00:09:22,329 She doesn't go around reading a lot of psychic magazines 155 00:09:22,429 --> 00:09:24,732 and esoteric material. 156 00:09:24,832 --> 00:09:27,334 So I think that she's a very stable individual. 157 00:09:27,434 --> 00:09:29,970 And it surprised me when she came out 158 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:31,939 with the amount of emotion, and affect, 159 00:09:32,039 --> 00:09:34,875 and details that she did under hypnosis. 160 00:09:34,975 --> 00:09:42,382 The sensation that I had when I gave her name, her age, 161 00:09:42,482 --> 00:09:47,587 and said, I was born in 1895, is one 162 00:09:47,688 --> 00:09:53,393 that I will never forget because I felt like my head was 163 00:09:53,493 --> 00:09:55,428 going to come off of my body. 164 00:09:55,528 --> 00:09:58,431 It hurt so bad. 165 00:09:58,531 --> 00:09:59,633 DOUGLAS SMITH: Look down at yourself 166 00:09:59,733 --> 00:10:01,902 and tell me what you look like. 167 00:10:02,002 --> 00:10:03,403 I have brown hair. 168 00:10:06,406 --> 00:10:09,142 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): My eyes are brown. 169 00:10:09,242 --> 00:10:10,543 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Georgia came 170 00:10:10,644 --> 00:10:13,513 to believe that the face she had drawn so many times as a child 171 00:10:13,613 --> 00:10:16,817 was the face of Sandra Jean Jenkins, who was also the girl 172 00:10:16,917 --> 00:10:18,118 in her memories and dreams. 173 00:10:24,124 --> 00:10:27,795 Further therapy sessions began to give detail to her images. 174 00:10:27,895 --> 00:10:29,596 Georgia could now clearly see Sandra 175 00:10:29,697 --> 00:10:31,431 Jean on a stern wheeler which apparently 176 00:10:31,531 --> 00:10:33,701 belonged to her family. 177 00:10:33,801 --> 00:10:36,670 One of the men on the boat was the young man in the derby hat 178 00:10:36,770 --> 00:10:38,638 whom she'd seen so often. 179 00:10:38,739 --> 00:10:40,708 His name was Tommy Hicks. 180 00:10:40,808 --> 00:10:42,910 He and Sandra Jean we're sweethearts. 181 00:10:43,010 --> 00:10:45,178 The sessions also revealed that the two of them 182 00:10:45,278 --> 00:10:47,614 were about to be married. 183 00:10:47,715 --> 00:10:54,587 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): When this came out about Sandra Jean, 184 00:10:54,688 --> 00:11:03,030 not only did I feel I was crazy, it scared me to death. 185 00:11:03,130 --> 00:11:07,034 It went against everything that I have ever been 186 00:11:07,134 --> 00:11:11,338 taught as far as religion goes. 187 00:11:11,438 --> 00:11:13,240 She is very sincere in her belief 188 00:11:13,340 --> 00:11:17,477 that she actually, subjectively, experienced all the things 189 00:11:17,577 --> 00:11:21,248 that she has experienced in that past life that she described. 190 00:11:21,348 --> 00:11:23,383 She's not faking or pretending. 191 00:11:23,483 --> 00:11:25,085 It is a real experience for her. 192 00:11:29,422 --> 00:11:30,590 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Were the images 193 00:11:30,690 --> 00:11:33,326 that had haunted Georgia Rudolph for more than 30 years, 194 00:11:33,426 --> 00:11:35,896 evidence of reincarnation? 195 00:11:35,996 --> 00:11:39,266 When we return, Georgia travels 500 miles from home 196 00:11:39,366 --> 00:11:42,635 and finds unexplainable coincidences between her dreams 197 00:11:42,736 --> 00:11:44,571 and the life of Sandra Jean Jenkins. 198 00:11:50,844 --> 00:11:52,946 For more than 30 years Georgia Rudolph 199 00:11:53,046 --> 00:11:55,282 was plagued by mystifying impressions of a past 200 00:11:55,382 --> 00:11:57,184 she knew nothing about. 201 00:11:57,284 --> 00:11:59,652 She was afraid to admit the possibility that she might be 202 00:11:59,753 --> 00:12:01,321 the reincarnation of a girl named 203 00:12:01,421 --> 00:12:05,092 Sandra Jean Jenkins who lived at the turn of the century. 204 00:12:05,192 --> 00:12:07,127 Under hypnosis, Georgia had repeatedly 205 00:12:07,227 --> 00:12:09,462 mentioned the word Marietta. 206 00:12:09,562 --> 00:12:12,632 It became clear to Georgia that Marietta was a place. 207 00:12:12,732 --> 00:12:16,169 A place that might reveal a connection between her dreams 208 00:12:16,269 --> 00:12:17,938 and the life Sandra Jean Jenkins. 209 00:12:20,974 --> 00:12:23,777 Marietta, Ohio is a city of 35,000 210 00:12:23,877 --> 00:12:27,881 located at the confluence of the Ohio and Muskegon Rivers. 211 00:12:27,981 --> 00:12:29,749 In its heyday, at the turn of the century, 212 00:12:29,850 --> 00:12:32,585 it was a major river port-- 213 00:12:32,685 --> 00:12:35,188 because Georgia's dreams were centered on a river and river 214 00:12:35,288 --> 00:12:39,192 boats, she went to Marietta in 1985 hoping 215 00:12:39,292 --> 00:12:41,428 to find a record of the people and places so 216 00:12:41,528 --> 00:12:42,896 vividly etched in her memory. 217 00:12:42,996 --> 00:12:44,231 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): If I'm not mistaken 218 00:12:44,331 --> 00:12:45,933 it was a big, red, brick building. 219 00:12:46,033 --> 00:12:47,134 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Georgia had 220 00:12:47,234 --> 00:12:49,769 arranged to meet with a reporter named Ted Bower. 221 00:12:49,870 --> 00:12:52,840 He was a lifelong resident of the city and for 32 years 222 00:12:52,940 --> 00:12:56,476 had worked for the local newspaper. 223 00:12:56,576 --> 00:12:59,079 TED BAUER: When Georgia arrived in Marietta I'd said, 224 00:12:59,179 --> 00:13:01,481 I'll take you around and show you some of the places 225 00:13:01,581 --> 00:13:03,483 that you've talked about over the phone. 226 00:13:03,583 --> 00:13:07,855 And She says no, I'll show you where to go. 227 00:13:07,955 --> 00:13:11,791 I couldn't believe her knowledge of Marietta. 228 00:13:11,892 --> 00:13:14,727 She knew as much or more than some of the old timers 229 00:13:14,828 --> 00:13:17,264 knew about the town. 230 00:13:17,364 --> 00:13:19,332 GEORGIA RUDOLF: I remember this place. 231 00:13:19,432 --> 00:13:21,434 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Ted Bauer was amazed when Georgia stopped 232 00:13:21,534 --> 00:13:24,237 in front of an insurance company and suddenly began describing 233 00:13:24,337 --> 00:13:26,974 the interior of an ice cream parlor which had been there 234 00:13:27,074 --> 00:13:29,910 at the turn of the century. 235 00:13:30,010 --> 00:13:32,012 Incredibly the decor she remembered 236 00:13:32,112 --> 00:13:34,681 had been completely changed in 1937-- 237 00:13:34,781 --> 00:13:37,517 11 years before Georgia was born. 238 00:13:37,617 --> 00:13:39,019 I remember the tile inside. 239 00:13:39,119 --> 00:13:40,753 It was like, red and white. 240 00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:43,857 And it was like red, white, red, white. 241 00:13:43,957 --> 00:13:47,160 And it was tile, but it wasn't like the tile we see today. 242 00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:51,398 TED BAUER: She described the interior almost perfectly. 243 00:13:51,498 --> 00:13:53,300 I checked this with the son of the man 244 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,103 who had run it for years. 245 00:13:56,203 --> 00:13:58,838 In a way it seems crazy, but what do you do? 246 00:13:58,939 --> 00:14:02,609 She was accurate about her descriptions. 247 00:14:02,709 --> 00:14:06,413 I was just baffled by her. 248 00:14:06,513 --> 00:14:08,681 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Ted Bauer's curiosity was aroused. 249 00:14:08,781 --> 00:14:10,383 He began to investigate on his own 250 00:14:10,483 --> 00:14:12,619 to see if the things Georges seemed to remember 251 00:14:12,719 --> 00:14:14,321 could somehow have been available to her 252 00:14:14,421 --> 00:14:15,288 in local records. 253 00:14:18,525 --> 00:14:19,859 TED BAUER: I did a lot of research. 254 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,197 I talked to family members of former store owners 255 00:14:24,297 --> 00:14:29,202 and I checked around newspaper files. 256 00:14:29,302 --> 00:14:31,204 I've thought about it many times, 257 00:14:31,304 --> 00:14:34,674 and it's possible that she could have done some research 258 00:14:34,774 --> 00:14:36,876 or had it done for her, but I don't know 259 00:14:36,977 --> 00:14:38,345 how that could have been done. 260 00:14:38,445 --> 00:14:41,581 It would have been a tremendous job. 261 00:14:41,681 --> 00:14:44,451 I can't buy the reincarnation bit, but she 262 00:14:44,551 --> 00:14:46,119 has some kind of power-- 263 00:14:46,219 --> 00:14:51,458 some way of knowing what happened in the past. 264 00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:56,329 I don't know what the power would be, but she has it. 265 00:14:56,429 --> 00:15:04,604 When I began to understand that I was being 100% correct, 266 00:15:04,704 --> 00:15:07,774 there was a fright, but there was an excitement that 267 00:15:07,874 --> 00:15:11,044 was starting to build in me. 268 00:15:11,144 --> 00:15:16,449 It was like-- this is really real. 269 00:15:16,549 --> 00:15:19,519 I really was this girl. 270 00:15:19,619 --> 00:15:25,925 And when I started finding things that were in my memory, 271 00:15:26,026 --> 00:15:30,897 it was like having been away and going back home. 272 00:15:36,403 --> 00:15:38,171 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Despite her uncanny recollections, 273 00:15:38,271 --> 00:15:40,840 Georgia could find no record of a Sandra Jean Jenkins 274 00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:45,212 in Marietta, She next visited a small farming 275 00:15:45,312 --> 00:15:48,881 community, Newport, Ohio, five miles to the north. 276 00:15:48,982 --> 00:15:50,817 Here too, she seems instinctively to know 277 00:15:50,917 --> 00:15:53,886 her way around. 278 00:15:53,987 --> 00:15:56,689 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): The first thing I saw when entering 279 00:15:56,789 --> 00:16:00,627 Newport was a big, gray house. 280 00:16:00,727 --> 00:16:04,131 It sent chills through my body. 281 00:16:04,231 --> 00:16:07,734 It was like, this is my house. 282 00:16:07,834 --> 00:16:10,237 This is where I lived. 283 00:16:10,337 --> 00:16:20,113 I could see a room I knew that this had been her bedroom. 284 00:16:20,213 --> 00:16:24,651 This was the house that Sandra had lived in. 285 00:16:30,157 --> 00:16:33,493 [church bells] 286 00:16:41,734 --> 00:16:43,203 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Throughout Georgia's life 287 00:16:43,303 --> 00:16:45,305 a single dream had always stood out, 288 00:16:45,405 --> 00:16:48,208 more perplexing and haunting than all the others. 289 00:16:48,308 --> 00:16:50,510 In it Sandra Jean, as a young girl, 290 00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:54,047 stands alone on the steps of a church. 291 00:16:54,147 --> 00:16:55,948 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): In the dream 292 00:16:56,049 --> 00:16:59,452 I know she has to walk exactly two blocks. 293 00:16:59,552 --> 00:17:05,792 And she's standing in front of a cemetery. 294 00:17:05,892 --> 00:17:08,428 And there's a path that goes off to the right 295 00:17:08,528 --> 00:17:12,999 and it curves and twists in different directions. 296 00:17:13,100 --> 00:17:17,470 And then the path eventually straightens out. 297 00:17:17,570 --> 00:17:21,374 And when she gets to the point where it straightens out, 298 00:17:21,474 --> 00:17:27,046 she's on the side of a hill looking down on a grave-- 299 00:17:27,147 --> 00:17:30,317 which I know to be her grandmother's grave, 300 00:17:30,417 --> 00:17:34,421 but I'm never able to get the name off of the headstone 301 00:17:34,521 --> 00:17:38,591 Because it's that point that I wake up. 302 00:17:38,691 --> 00:17:42,095 And I have had this dream 200 or 300 times 303 00:17:42,195 --> 00:17:46,799 and always wake up in the same place. 304 00:17:46,899 --> 00:17:53,706 [music playing] 305 00:17:53,806 --> 00:17:55,575 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): In Newport, Georgia found 306 00:17:55,675 --> 00:17:57,244 the church from her dream. 307 00:17:57,344 --> 00:17:59,779 Perhaps now she could discover the identity 308 00:17:59,879 --> 00:18:01,614 of Sandra Jean's grandmother. 309 00:18:04,651 --> 00:18:06,486 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): It frightened me. 310 00:18:06,586 --> 00:18:10,490 Everything I found frightened me more 311 00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:15,628 because I still didn't want to believe 312 00:18:15,728 --> 00:18:17,164 that this was reincarnation-- 313 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:26,072 but I walked the two blocks that I knew I had walked in my dream 314 00:18:26,173 --> 00:18:30,042 and I found myself in the cemetery. 315 00:18:30,143 --> 00:18:35,382 And I started walking this path and as I walked it, 316 00:18:35,482 --> 00:18:37,750 it began to dawn on me-- 317 00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:42,522 this is the path in my dreams. 318 00:18:42,622 --> 00:18:51,331 I can remember my heart and the feeling in my body. 319 00:18:51,431 --> 00:18:54,367 I mean, it was just total excitement 320 00:18:54,467 --> 00:18:58,471 because I knew when I reached the end of that path, 321 00:18:58,571 --> 00:19:02,008 I was going to be standing over the grave that I had dreamt 322 00:19:02,108 --> 00:19:05,912 about over, and over, and over. 323 00:19:06,012 --> 00:19:09,048 And when I stopped where the dream stops, 324 00:19:09,148 --> 00:19:13,019 I was looking down on the grave that I 325 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:22,529 knew to be my grandmother's and it said Mary Bevan Greene. 326 00:19:22,629 --> 00:19:24,964 And I finally got a name. 327 00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:34,307 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): The gravestone 328 00:19:34,407 --> 00:19:38,478 provided the missing link to the house Georgia had seen earlier. 329 00:19:38,578 --> 00:19:40,913 At the turn of the century, this house had been 330 00:19:41,013 --> 00:19:43,716 the home of the Green family. 331 00:19:43,816 --> 00:19:46,286 Moreover, the Greene's had owned a fleet of stern wheelers 332 00:19:46,386 --> 00:19:50,223 which operated up and down the Ohio River. 333 00:19:50,323 --> 00:19:53,526 Now, the story of Sandra Jean Jenkins and Tommy Hicks 334 00:19:53,626 --> 00:19:56,329 came into sharper focus. 335 00:19:56,429 --> 00:19:58,765 DOUGLAS SMITH: I want you to allow yourself to go back 336 00:19:58,865 --> 00:20:01,501 a little bit further now and feel safe and secure 337 00:20:01,601 --> 00:20:03,303 in talking to me. 338 00:20:03,403 --> 00:20:06,339 I'm going to ask you a question. 339 00:20:06,439 --> 00:20:08,708 What happened to Tom? 340 00:20:08,808 --> 00:20:11,143 Tommy. 341 00:20:11,244 --> 00:20:13,580 DOUGLAS SMITH: Where are you? 342 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:14,547 I'm in my room. 343 00:20:19,386 --> 00:20:20,353 DOUGLAS SMITH: What's happening? 344 00:20:23,756 --> 00:20:24,657 Is Tommy gone? 345 00:20:24,757 --> 00:20:27,394 Yes. 346 00:20:27,494 --> 00:20:28,895 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Under hypnosis, Georgia 347 00:20:28,995 --> 00:20:32,932 recalled that in 1914, just days before Sandra Jean and Tommy 348 00:20:33,032 --> 00:20:35,335 were to be married, he was swept overboard 349 00:20:35,435 --> 00:20:37,837 in a storm on the Ohio River. 350 00:20:37,937 --> 00:20:40,172 His body was never found. 351 00:20:40,273 --> 00:20:42,008 Sandra Jean Jenkins was left alone-- 352 00:20:42,108 --> 00:20:43,876 and to her family's dismay-- 353 00:20:43,976 --> 00:20:46,245 pregnant, with Tommy Hicks's child. 354 00:20:48,915 --> 00:20:49,716 Tommy's gone. 355 00:20:52,685 --> 00:20:56,889 I don't want to be here. 356 00:20:56,989 --> 00:20:58,558 Mama will never forgive me. 357 00:21:07,467 --> 00:21:10,036 DOUGLAS SMITH: What is it she won't ever forgive you for? 358 00:21:10,136 --> 00:21:12,004 My baby. 359 00:21:12,104 --> 00:21:14,474 [music playing] 360 00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:33,092 DOUGLAS SMITH: I want you to move forward in time. 361 00:21:33,192 --> 00:21:36,262 You are now at the river and I want you to describe 362 00:21:36,363 --> 00:21:38,264 to me what you did then. 363 00:21:38,365 --> 00:21:44,637 GEORGIA RUDOLF: I take my locket off 364 00:21:44,737 --> 00:21:52,278 and I slide into the water at a walk. 365 00:21:52,379 --> 00:21:53,245 And I walk. 366 00:22:03,122 --> 00:22:05,392 DOUGLAS SMITH: Where are you buried? 367 00:22:05,492 --> 00:22:10,129 They put me up on a hill close to the family 368 00:22:10,229 --> 00:22:12,499 but not with the family. 369 00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:13,866 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Georgia is convinced 370 00:22:13,966 --> 00:22:16,302 that because Sandra Jean took her own life, 371 00:22:16,403 --> 00:22:18,070 she was buried in an unmarked grave 372 00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:21,608 just a few feet away from Mary Bevan Greene. 373 00:22:21,708 --> 00:22:25,211 Georgia had said under hypnosis that from Sandra Jean's grave 374 00:22:25,311 --> 00:22:28,314 you could see an angel with one arm upraised. 375 00:22:28,415 --> 00:22:30,817 When she looked south from Mary Greene's grave, 376 00:22:30,917 --> 00:22:33,420 Georgia saw the statue of an angel-- 377 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,021 its right arm extended upward. 378 00:22:38,691 --> 00:22:42,094 Georgia's discoveries in Ohio do seem convincing, 379 00:22:42,194 --> 00:22:44,831 but is there any real proof that Sandra Jean Jenkins 380 00:22:44,931 --> 00:22:47,767 or Tommy Hicks ever existed? 381 00:22:47,867 --> 00:22:50,002 Birth and death records were a haphazard affair 382 00:22:50,102 --> 00:22:52,539 around the turn of the century and so far 383 00:22:52,639 --> 00:22:55,307 neither of their exact names had been found, 384 00:22:55,408 --> 00:22:59,512 but there does seem to be a record of Tommy's parents. 385 00:22:59,612 --> 00:23:01,047 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): When I was under hypnosis 386 00:23:01,147 --> 00:23:06,886 I had said that Tom's parents' names were Tom and Jenny Hicks. 387 00:23:06,986 --> 00:23:11,424 The only proof that I have that Tommy existed 388 00:23:11,524 --> 00:23:17,063 was that in 1906 there is a farm registered to Tom and Jenny 389 00:23:17,163 --> 00:23:21,200 Hicks in Newport, Ohio. 390 00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:22,802 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Georgia also located 391 00:23:22,902 --> 00:23:24,403 the Greene family's nearest living 392 00:23:24,504 --> 00:23:26,405 relatives who provided her with what 393 00:23:26,506 --> 00:23:28,641 Georgia believes is evidence that Sandra 394 00:23:28,741 --> 00:23:31,644 Jean Jenkins actually existed. 395 00:23:31,744 --> 00:23:32,745 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): They brought 396 00:23:32,845 --> 00:23:39,051 out a picture taken in 1908. 397 00:23:39,151 --> 00:23:42,655 It's a family reunion picture. 398 00:23:42,755 --> 00:23:47,494 And the girl that I call Sandra-- 399 00:23:47,594 --> 00:23:51,097 that I have drawn my entire life-- 400 00:23:51,197 --> 00:23:55,134 is standing in that picture. 401 00:23:55,234 --> 00:24:02,308 It's all family, but no one knows who this girl is. 402 00:24:02,408 --> 00:24:08,481 There was a statement made by a member of the family-- 403 00:24:08,581 --> 00:24:12,184 I don't know this girl's name, but I know she 404 00:24:12,284 --> 00:24:13,686 drowned out back of the house. 405 00:24:17,123 --> 00:24:18,591 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): In the family photograph, 406 00:24:18,691 --> 00:24:21,360 a girl from Georgia's dream seemed to be standing slightly 407 00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:24,096 apart from those around her. 408 00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:28,100 The photograph is accompanied by a complete roster of names. 409 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,804 Every person is identified except the girl Georgia 410 00:24:31,904 --> 00:24:33,405 recognized as Sandra Jean. 411 00:24:37,143 --> 00:24:38,410 DOUGLAS SMITH: Almost every culture, 412 00:24:38,511 --> 00:24:41,781 at one time or another, has had a belief in reincarnation. 413 00:24:41,881 --> 00:24:45,317 Sometimes I think, in fact, that it's a metaphor for man's 414 00:24:45,417 --> 00:24:48,788 anger over the brevity of life. 415 00:24:48,888 --> 00:24:50,557 In terms of whether reincarnation 416 00:24:50,657 --> 00:24:53,626 is a real fact or nor-- 417 00:24:53,726 --> 00:24:56,228 as a scientist I don't know. 418 00:24:56,328 --> 00:24:57,396 I want proof. 419 00:24:57,496 --> 00:25:00,967 I'm a doubter, but as a human being 420 00:25:01,067 --> 00:25:04,203 I would love to have it be the truth. 421 00:25:04,303 --> 00:25:09,542 I believe that reincarnation is real, 422 00:25:09,642 --> 00:25:14,346 but I'm not sure what reincarnation is. 423 00:25:14,446 --> 00:25:19,151 I know there's something to it. 424 00:25:19,251 --> 00:25:22,388 GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): I have had an experience that a lot 425 00:25:22,488 --> 00:25:23,656 of people don't get to have. 426 00:25:26,826 --> 00:25:35,968 My logic oftentimes will tell me, no this isn't real, 427 00:25:36,068 --> 00:25:40,339 but my hearth tells me, yes it is. 428 00:25:43,643 --> 00:25:44,744 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Could the saga 429 00:25:44,844 --> 00:25:47,113 of Sandra Jean Jenkins simply be the product 430 00:25:47,213 --> 00:25:49,515 of an overactive imagination? 431 00:25:49,616 --> 00:25:53,085 Could it in fact be a reincarnation experience-- 432 00:25:53,185 --> 00:25:55,755 the legitimate memory of a life Georgia Rudolph 433 00:25:55,855 --> 00:25:59,091 lived at the turn of the century, 434 00:25:59,191 --> 00:26:00,827 or could it be something else? 435 00:26:00,927 --> 00:26:04,230 Something we can neither define, nor understand? 436 00:26:04,330 --> 00:26:07,166 [music playing] 437 00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:17,309 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): When we return a tragic story of Steve 438 00:26:17,409 --> 00:26:20,346 Sandlin a rookie police officer who, some believe, 439 00:26:20,446 --> 00:26:23,049 may have been killed because he knew too much about corruption 440 00:26:23,149 --> 00:26:26,085 in a small New Mexico town. 441 00:26:26,185 --> 00:26:29,088 [music playing] 442 00:26:34,827 --> 00:26:36,528 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Everybody who knew Steve Sandlin 443 00:26:36,629 --> 00:26:38,931 said he was born to be a cop. 444 00:26:39,031 --> 00:26:41,934 His father was a career law enforcement officer and even 445 00:26:42,034 --> 00:26:43,970 as a child Steve planned on following 446 00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:47,006 in his father's footsteps. 447 00:26:47,106 --> 00:26:48,440 TOM SANDLIN: Because I was a policeman, 448 00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:50,710 Stevie grew up seeing a uniform. 449 00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:51,978 He liked it. 450 00:26:52,078 --> 00:26:55,281 He used to wear my helmet, wear my motorcycle boots. 451 00:26:55,381 --> 00:26:59,551 He'd go around the house all day dressed up like a cop. 452 00:26:59,652 --> 00:27:01,654 Steve wanted to be a police officer 453 00:27:01,754 --> 00:27:08,260 and nothing was going to do until he did it. 454 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:09,595 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): In March of 1988 455 00:27:09,696 --> 00:27:12,464 when he was 21 years old, Steve announced to his family 456 00:27:12,564 --> 00:27:14,967 that he had been accepted as a member of the Mountainair, New 457 00:27:15,067 --> 00:27:17,336 Mexico Police Department. 458 00:27:17,436 --> 00:27:19,371 Mountain Air four, 10-8. 459 00:27:19,471 --> 00:27:22,074 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): But in the early evening on May 7, 1988, 460 00:27:22,174 --> 00:27:24,777 while Steve was working alone in the police station, 461 00:27:24,877 --> 00:27:26,779 his dream came to a violent-- 462 00:27:26,879 --> 00:27:30,616 and still unexplained-- end. 463 00:27:30,717 --> 00:27:32,985 I can't recall the exact wording by the individual 464 00:27:33,085 --> 00:27:34,887 that notified us, but when we arrived 465 00:27:34,987 --> 00:27:37,089 he mentioned something about Steve 466 00:27:37,189 --> 00:27:39,191 upstairs, a gun, and blood. 467 00:27:39,291 --> 00:27:41,227 And he didn't know if it was a joke, or real, or what. 468 00:27:45,698 --> 00:27:47,266 DAVID CARSON (VOICEOVER): We had our weapons drawn. 469 00:27:47,366 --> 00:27:49,736 We weren't sure what we were walking into. 470 00:27:49,836 --> 00:27:53,039 And I went to Steve and I remember saying to him hang on, 471 00:27:53,139 --> 00:27:54,406 Steve. - Steve, hang on. 472 00:27:54,506 --> 00:27:55,775 Get him rolling, Gary. 473 00:27:55,875 --> 00:27:57,676 DAVID CARSON (VOICEOVER): And asked him what had happened. 474 00:27:57,777 --> 00:27:59,145 Mountainair two, [inaudible] your request. 475 00:27:59,245 --> 00:28:00,312 Officer down. 476 00:28:00,412 --> 00:28:01,447 DAVID CARSON (VOICEOVER): He was unresponsive. 477 00:28:01,547 --> 00:28:03,449 He was breathing, but he never did say anything. 478 00:28:07,787 --> 00:28:11,090 We immediately called emergency services-- ambulance personnel. 479 00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:14,761 And they immediately started their life saving operation 480 00:28:14,861 --> 00:28:16,929 to try and save the officer's life. 481 00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:18,464 He was still alive at that time. 482 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,635 They were in the process of trying to start an IV 483 00:28:23,736 --> 00:28:25,738 and shortly thereafter, Officer Sandlin expired 484 00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:29,275 and he was pronounced dead by the doctor here at the scene. 485 00:28:32,344 --> 00:28:33,712 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Steve Sandlin had only 486 00:28:33,813 --> 00:28:35,514 been on the force eight weeks. 487 00:28:35,614 --> 00:28:37,884 His gun and was found by his side. 488 00:28:37,984 --> 00:28:39,952 Authorities believe that the fatal bullet may have 489 00:28:40,052 --> 00:28:42,154 been fired from his own weapon. 490 00:28:42,254 --> 00:28:43,622 The cause of death was, at first, 491 00:28:43,722 --> 00:28:49,628 thought to be accidental or a suicide, but some disagree. 492 00:28:49,728 --> 00:28:51,297 We all know-- 493 00:28:51,397 --> 00:28:53,565 those of us who knew Steve-- 494 00:28:53,665 --> 00:28:58,838 know that there is no way that it could have been a suicide, 495 00:28:58,938 --> 00:29:01,941 or even an accidental shooting. 496 00:29:02,041 --> 00:29:04,343 We believe Steve was murdered and we believe there 497 00:29:04,443 --> 00:29:08,380 was a conspiracy to do so. 498 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,951 I think someone killed Steve Sandlin intentionally. 499 00:29:12,051 --> 00:29:14,453 I say that because there is no evidence that it was suicide. 500 00:29:14,553 --> 00:29:16,455 There is no evidence it was accidental. 501 00:29:16,555 --> 00:29:18,825 And there's very strong, persuasive 502 00:29:18,925 --> 00:29:21,928 evidence that he was murdered and that his murder 503 00:29:22,028 --> 00:29:24,864 was planned. 504 00:29:24,964 --> 00:29:26,966 The death of Steve Sandlin has touched 505 00:29:27,066 --> 00:29:28,434 off a controversy that has reached 506 00:29:28,534 --> 00:29:30,736 beyond his grieving family. 507 00:29:30,837 --> 00:29:32,471 To date, one Assistant Attorney General 508 00:29:32,571 --> 00:29:33,940 has resigned over this case. 509 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,976 Another, James Scarantino, has been fired, 510 00:29:37,076 --> 00:29:38,978 but perhaps the most disturbing allegation 511 00:29:39,078 --> 00:29:41,780 are those who believe that not only was Steve murdered, 512 00:29:41,881 --> 00:29:43,315 but that his killer's identity has 513 00:29:43,415 --> 00:29:48,921 been deliberately covered up by law enforcement officials. 514 00:29:49,021 --> 00:29:50,022 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Mountainair 515 00:29:50,122 --> 00:29:52,258 is an isolated community located 80 516 00:29:52,358 --> 00:29:54,326 miles southeast of Albuquerque. 517 00:29:54,426 --> 00:29:55,995 Despite the fact that the area's known 518 00:29:56,095 --> 00:29:58,730 to be a center for the cultivation of marijuana, 519 00:29:58,831 --> 00:30:03,635 the town's police department consisted of only four men. 520 00:30:03,735 --> 00:30:06,572 When Steve Sandlin began working for the police department 521 00:30:06,672 --> 00:30:08,707 he was enthusiastic about his new job 522 00:30:08,807 --> 00:30:11,677 and often to worked during his off hours. 523 00:30:11,777 --> 00:30:15,047 Stevie really enjoyed the job at first. 524 00:30:15,147 --> 00:30:18,417 He's laugh and talk about it-- everything that he did. 525 00:30:18,517 --> 00:30:21,888 However, toward the last, his attitude started changing. 526 00:30:21,988 --> 00:30:24,056 I don't know exactly what the change was. 527 00:30:24,156 --> 00:30:26,192 Steve just started saying that things weren't 528 00:30:26,292 --> 00:30:28,294 like he thought they would be. 529 00:30:28,394 --> 00:30:29,228 Something was wrong. 530 00:30:31,864 --> 00:30:33,665 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): The afternoon of Steve's death, May 531 00:30:33,765 --> 00:30:36,368 7, he had returned to the empty police station 532 00:30:36,468 --> 00:30:39,405 after a disagreement with Chief Carson over some traffic 533 00:30:39,505 --> 00:30:41,908 tickets he had written. 534 00:30:42,008 --> 00:30:45,177 DAVID CARSON: What I told Steve was, Steve, slow down, son. 535 00:30:45,277 --> 00:30:46,712 You can't catch everybody. 536 00:30:46,812 --> 00:30:48,147 That's not your role. 537 00:30:48,247 --> 00:30:49,615 We don't want you to burn out. 538 00:30:49,715 --> 00:30:52,084 We don't want you working 16 or 18 hours a day. 539 00:30:52,184 --> 00:30:53,852 Just take it easy. 540 00:30:53,953 --> 00:30:57,356 And he seemed a little down about that. 541 00:30:57,456 --> 00:30:58,290 He wasn't chewed out. 542 00:30:58,390 --> 00:31:00,993 It was just a conversation. 543 00:31:01,093 --> 00:31:02,528 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): By 7 o'clock, 544 00:31:02,628 --> 00:31:04,630 Steve was alone at the station and spoke 545 00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:07,066 with his girlfriend Michelle in nearby Bosque 546 00:31:07,166 --> 00:31:08,935 Farms, New Mexico. 547 00:31:09,035 --> 00:31:10,369 We were making plans for the next day 548 00:31:10,469 --> 00:31:13,105 and he said that Chief Carson yelled at him 549 00:31:13,205 --> 00:31:15,174 and told him to go back into the station. 550 00:31:15,274 --> 00:31:16,308 So he was kind of mad about that. 551 00:31:16,408 --> 00:31:17,843 And he said if they want him to be a security 552 00:31:17,944 --> 00:31:19,711 guard that he would sit up to the station 553 00:31:19,811 --> 00:31:22,414 and be a security guard. 554 00:31:22,514 --> 00:31:25,684 And while I was talking to him I heard the a lady's voice come 555 00:31:25,784 --> 00:31:27,920 in and he muffled the phone. 556 00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:29,922 And I couldn't hear what was said, 557 00:31:30,022 --> 00:31:31,357 but it sounded like he was getting loud 558 00:31:31,457 --> 00:31:34,026 and she was yelling at him. 559 00:31:34,126 --> 00:31:36,228 And he said it was no big deal and he said he had to go. 560 00:31:41,233 --> 00:31:42,734 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Approximately 45 minutes 561 00:31:42,834 --> 00:31:45,804 later at 7:45, Chief Carson received 562 00:31:45,904 --> 00:31:48,807 word that Steve had been shot. 563 00:31:48,907 --> 00:31:51,043 DAVID CARSON: I saw no evidence of any confrontation 564 00:31:51,143 --> 00:31:52,578 where there were shots fired. 565 00:31:52,678 --> 00:31:54,613 Nothing. 566 00:31:54,713 --> 00:31:57,316 And from an average person's point of view 567 00:31:57,416 --> 00:32:00,786 it was, apparently, a suicide. 568 00:32:00,886 --> 00:32:03,822 Oh, there is no way. 569 00:32:03,922 --> 00:32:05,124 Steve loved life. 570 00:32:05,224 --> 00:32:08,794 He was happy, he was doing what he always wanted to do. 571 00:32:08,894 --> 00:32:11,297 That was not-- that was not Steve. 572 00:32:11,397 --> 00:32:12,431 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Chief Carson 573 00:32:12,531 --> 00:32:15,034 believes that if Steve's death wasn't a suicide, 574 00:32:15,134 --> 00:32:17,736 then it was accidental. 575 00:32:17,836 --> 00:32:19,071 DAVID CARSON: There was information 576 00:32:19,171 --> 00:32:21,974 that came to us that he was prone to play with his gun. 577 00:32:22,074 --> 00:32:24,010 I can see the possibility that perhaps 578 00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:26,645 he was playing with his gun. 579 00:32:26,745 --> 00:32:31,150 And I think that, that probably is the strongest possibility 580 00:32:31,250 --> 00:32:33,752 in Steve Sandlin's death. 581 00:32:33,852 --> 00:32:36,922 The possibility of it going off is tremendous. 582 00:32:37,023 --> 00:32:39,691 Maybe a few years ago Steve would have played 583 00:32:39,791 --> 00:32:42,028 with a weapon, but I don't believe 584 00:32:42,128 --> 00:32:45,497 he would have played with it in this particular stage 585 00:32:45,597 --> 00:32:47,766 of his life. 586 00:32:47,866 --> 00:32:49,368 Let's look at the gunshot wound. 587 00:32:49,468 --> 00:32:50,936 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): The results of the Steve's 588 00:32:51,037 --> 00:32:52,371 autopsy were inconclusive. 589 00:32:52,471 --> 00:32:53,772 Some believe that the gun may have 590 00:32:53,872 --> 00:32:56,208 been as much as two feet away from Steve's head 591 00:32:56,308 --> 00:32:57,509 when it was fired-- 592 00:32:57,609 --> 00:33:00,646 an unusual distance for a self-inflicted wound. 593 00:33:00,746 --> 00:33:03,049 Secondly, there were only insignificant traces 594 00:33:03,149 --> 00:33:04,916 of gun powder found on Steve's hand-- 595 00:33:05,017 --> 00:33:09,088 an unusually small amount if Steve had fired the fatal shot. 596 00:33:09,188 --> 00:33:12,258 Despite this information, the Attorney General's Office 597 00:33:12,358 --> 00:33:14,893 refused to rule out suicide. 598 00:33:14,993 --> 00:33:17,329 dissatisfied, Steve's family conducted 599 00:33:17,429 --> 00:33:19,698 their own investigation. 600 00:33:19,798 --> 00:33:22,000 I feel that Steven was murdered. 601 00:33:22,101 --> 00:33:24,170 I feel that he was murdered because he 602 00:33:24,270 --> 00:33:26,472 knew too much about something. 603 00:33:26,572 --> 00:33:29,608 Steve's death was a homicide. 604 00:33:29,708 --> 00:33:33,645 I think they killed him to keep him quiet of something 605 00:33:33,745 --> 00:33:36,948 he may have known that was going on down in Mountainair. 606 00:33:42,054 --> 00:33:43,089 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): The family's 607 00:33:43,189 --> 00:33:45,357 investigation uncovered one possible motive 608 00:33:45,457 --> 00:33:48,060 for Steve's murder. 609 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,995 After only a few weeks of active duty 610 00:33:50,096 --> 00:33:52,698 Steve had begun to patrol alone and would sometimes 611 00:33:52,798 --> 00:33:56,068 wait outside local bars in order to apprehend drunk drivers. 612 00:34:00,406 --> 00:34:03,475 Sir, I'm going to need to see your driver's license, please. 613 00:34:03,575 --> 00:34:05,111 Sir, you're going to have to step out of the car. 614 00:34:05,211 --> 00:34:09,081 Put your left hand outside and open the door from the outside. 615 00:34:09,181 --> 00:34:10,316 Come out. 616 00:34:10,416 --> 00:34:11,450 Shut the door. 617 00:34:11,550 --> 00:34:12,851 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): On the night of April 11, 618 00:34:12,951 --> 00:34:16,288 just one month before his death, Steve arrested a local resident 619 00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:18,357 and made an important discovery. 620 00:34:22,361 --> 00:34:24,696 Is this yours? 621 00:34:24,796 --> 00:34:25,831 Sir, I'm placing you under arrest 622 00:34:25,931 --> 00:34:26,765 for possession of marijuana. 623 00:34:26,865 --> 00:34:28,300 Put your hands on the car. 624 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:29,201 On the car. 625 00:34:29,301 --> 00:34:31,337 Spread your legs. 626 00:34:31,437 --> 00:34:32,638 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): The following day 627 00:34:32,738 --> 00:34:33,739 a warrant was obtained. 628 00:34:33,839 --> 00:34:36,708 The man's home was searched. 629 00:34:36,808 --> 00:34:40,011 54 pounds of marijuana was discovered, with a street 630 00:34:40,112 --> 00:34:47,085 value of close to $100,000. 631 00:34:47,186 --> 00:34:50,622 Within days of the arrest, Steve received death threats. 632 00:34:50,722 --> 00:34:52,724 Alarmed, he refused to sleep at his home. 633 00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:01,500 There were number of deaths threats. 634 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,169 I didn't dismiss them. 635 00:35:03,269 --> 00:35:05,837 However, it wasn't possible to trace 636 00:35:05,937 --> 00:35:07,506 these threats-- the mysterious phone 637 00:35:07,606 --> 00:35:08,840 calls, these kind of things. 638 00:35:08,940 --> 00:35:12,010 We we're all familiar with these type of threats, 639 00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:13,879 especially after we started arresting drug dealers 640 00:35:13,979 --> 00:35:17,316 and so forth they became more amplified. 641 00:35:17,416 --> 00:35:19,017 So how long have you been with the Mountainair-- 642 00:35:19,117 --> 00:35:20,319 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): During this time, 643 00:35:20,419 --> 00:35:21,720 the New Mexico Attorney General's 644 00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:24,690 Office was investigating reports that the Mountainair police had 645 00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:26,725 carelessly handled evidence. 646 00:35:26,825 --> 00:35:29,228 Steve had been questioned by investigators the day 647 00:35:29,328 --> 00:35:30,629 before his death. 648 00:35:30,729 --> 00:35:33,365 The last time I spoke to Steven, Steven 649 00:35:33,465 --> 00:35:34,800 indicated that there was something 650 00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:38,036 going on that he did not agree with down in Mountainair. 651 00:35:38,136 --> 00:35:42,073 He asked me what would I do in that situation 652 00:35:42,174 --> 00:35:44,343 and I basically told him to tell the truth. 653 00:35:48,347 --> 00:35:49,515 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): After his death, 654 00:35:49,615 --> 00:35:52,251 Steve's house had been searched by the authorities. 655 00:35:52,351 --> 00:35:54,653 Three days later his family arrived in the Mountainair 656 00:35:54,753 --> 00:35:58,757 to collect his belongings. 657 00:35:58,857 --> 00:36:00,392 These bowls are really pretty. 658 00:36:00,492 --> 00:36:03,195 Do you know where he got them Michelle. 659 00:36:03,295 --> 00:36:05,130 EILEEN SANDLIN: Michelle and I were in the kitchen 660 00:36:05,231 --> 00:36:06,398 and she opened a drawer. 661 00:36:09,201 --> 00:36:11,036 Ed, Ed, come here. 662 00:36:11,136 --> 00:36:12,471 EILEEN SANDLIN: What we found in the drawer 663 00:36:12,571 --> 00:36:16,174 were several bags of marijuana. 664 00:36:16,275 --> 00:36:18,877 And Ed looked at us and said, they've 665 00:36:18,977 --> 00:36:20,279 already searched this house. 666 00:36:20,379 --> 00:36:21,913 What's this stuff doing here? 667 00:36:22,013 --> 00:36:26,151 He said they couldn't possibly have missed this. 668 00:36:26,252 --> 00:36:27,185 And they couldn't have. 669 00:36:27,286 --> 00:36:28,754 You just open the door and there was. 670 00:36:28,854 --> 00:36:30,155 It wasn't hidden. 671 00:36:30,256 --> 00:36:33,659 It wasn't disguised in any way. 672 00:36:33,759 --> 00:36:37,028 It was just there. 673 00:36:37,128 --> 00:36:39,431 The only reason that I could think 674 00:36:39,531 --> 00:36:43,369 of it being there was someone had made an attempt to make 675 00:36:43,469 --> 00:36:45,103 Officer Sandlin look bad-- 676 00:36:45,203 --> 00:36:48,173 or possibly, the police department look bad, but I'm 677 00:36:48,274 --> 00:36:49,975 convinced that the evidence-- 678 00:36:50,075 --> 00:36:51,710 that marijuana-- was planted there 679 00:36:51,810 --> 00:36:54,446 after Steve Sandlin's death. 680 00:36:54,546 --> 00:36:55,781 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Steve always 681 00:36:55,881 --> 00:36:58,850 recorded his traffic stops on a small cassette recorder. 682 00:36:58,950 --> 00:37:00,819 In her search, Steve's mother discovered 683 00:37:00,919 --> 00:37:03,355 that all of these mini cassettes were missing. 684 00:37:03,455 --> 00:37:04,856 What happened to these potentially 685 00:37:04,956 --> 00:37:06,292 incriminating cassettes? 686 00:37:06,392 --> 00:37:08,927 And who put the marijuana inside Steve's home? 687 00:37:11,863 --> 00:37:15,267 This whole case is like a big spider web. 688 00:37:15,367 --> 00:37:18,036 It just-- and it has tentacles. 689 00:37:18,136 --> 00:37:23,909 You go one direction and there's five more places to look. 690 00:37:24,009 --> 00:37:28,046 Several witnesses were found who stated that they saw 691 00:37:28,146 --> 00:37:32,384 Chief Carson parked, or outside the Mountainair 692 00:37:32,484 --> 00:37:38,056 Police Department between 7:15 and 7:25, or thereabouts. 693 00:37:38,156 --> 00:37:41,092 We're not talking one, two, but several people 694 00:37:41,192 --> 00:37:43,995 place him there at that time. 695 00:37:44,095 --> 00:37:46,732 Anyone who would make the statement officially 696 00:37:46,832 --> 00:37:51,069 that I was in the area, or here at the police station, any time 697 00:37:51,169 --> 00:37:54,973 between 7 and 7:30 is a liar. 698 00:37:55,073 --> 00:37:56,342 I was in the company-- 699 00:37:56,442 --> 00:38:01,046 and it's very easy to analyze where I was-- in the company 700 00:38:01,146 --> 00:38:03,615 of 200 to 300 people at a public function 701 00:38:03,715 --> 00:38:04,716 at the Mountainair High School. 702 00:38:04,816 --> 00:38:06,017 And there are a number of people that I 703 00:38:06,117 --> 00:38:08,086 was there with and spoke with that can 704 00:38:08,186 --> 00:38:09,921 place me there at that time. 705 00:38:12,223 --> 00:38:14,025 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): There are many disturbing questions 706 00:38:14,125 --> 00:38:15,661 involved in this case. 707 00:38:15,761 --> 00:38:17,829 If Steve was murdered, why was he killed 708 00:38:17,929 --> 00:38:19,965 inside the police station? 709 00:38:20,065 --> 00:38:22,033 Why was marijuana discovered in his house 710 00:38:22,133 --> 00:38:24,235 after a thorough police search? 711 00:38:24,336 --> 00:38:26,738 And perhaps most importantly, do Steve's 712 00:38:26,838 --> 00:38:28,340 fellow officers know more than they 713 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:29,841 are telling about his death. 714 00:38:33,545 --> 00:38:35,814 When I was offered the opportunity-- 715 00:38:35,914 --> 00:38:38,316 when I had the opportunity, I did 716 00:38:38,417 --> 00:38:41,186 agree to take a lie detector test for the Federal 717 00:38:41,286 --> 00:38:43,021 Bureau of Investigation. 718 00:38:43,121 --> 00:38:44,923 Their questions about the Sandlin death 719 00:38:45,023 --> 00:38:47,759 were very specific. 720 00:38:47,859 --> 00:38:49,260 I was more than happy to do that-- to get 721 00:38:49,361 --> 00:38:51,830 the opportunity to do it. 722 00:38:51,930 --> 00:38:53,365 I spoke with Director Nelson-- 723 00:38:53,465 --> 00:38:56,802 with the Special Agent in charge, Nelson in Albuquerque. 724 00:38:56,902 --> 00:39:01,973 After that polygraph was given and his official statement was 725 00:39:02,073 --> 00:39:04,009 that the Federal Bureau of Investigation 726 00:39:04,109 --> 00:39:06,344 has no reason to believe there was any attempt to deceive 727 00:39:06,445 --> 00:39:09,948 them on my part whatsoever. 728 00:39:10,048 --> 00:39:11,817 I don't know if it's cronyism. 729 00:39:11,917 --> 00:39:14,586 I don't know if there's other people involved. 730 00:39:14,686 --> 00:39:17,723 I don't know-- and no one's telling us. 731 00:39:20,959 --> 00:39:24,763 That's the main frustration, is that there are things that we 732 00:39:24,863 --> 00:39:27,599 know and can't understand why things 733 00:39:27,699 --> 00:39:29,134 are not being done about them. 734 00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:36,141 If there's anyone-- anyone at all-- 735 00:39:36,241 --> 00:39:38,910 who has any information we would be 736 00:39:39,010 --> 00:39:44,049 so eternally grateful to know that so that we 737 00:39:44,149 --> 00:39:47,252 can put our son to rest. 738 00:39:47,352 --> 00:39:48,754 [music playing] 739 00:40:07,906 --> 00:40:09,475 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Today one of the front lines 740 00:40:09,575 --> 00:40:12,077 on the war on drugs is inside illicit laboratories 741 00:40:12,177 --> 00:40:14,312 such as this. 742 00:40:14,412 --> 00:40:16,114 Using commonly available chemicals, 743 00:40:16,214 --> 00:40:18,083 the operators of these small mobile labs 744 00:40:18,183 --> 00:40:20,819 manufacture the highly addictive methamphetamines known 745 00:40:20,919 --> 00:40:22,721 as Meth, crank, or crystal. 746 00:40:25,356 --> 00:40:27,793 Tonight police need your help arresting one of the most 747 00:40:27,893 --> 00:40:29,995 notorious of these Meth cooks. 748 00:40:30,095 --> 00:40:31,463 According to investigators he has 749 00:40:31,563 --> 00:40:34,165 masterminded the construction of methamphetamine labs 750 00:40:34,265 --> 00:40:35,166 across the country. 751 00:40:38,103 --> 00:40:40,338 KURT BARTHEL: His normal mode of operation 752 00:40:40,438 --> 00:40:43,742 would be to have any one of his cronies set up a lab for him-- 753 00:40:43,842 --> 00:40:45,511 just basically have all the chemicals 754 00:40:45,611 --> 00:40:49,247 and all the necessities on hand so when he shows up 755 00:40:49,347 --> 00:40:53,118 he would not have to do any manual labor type operations. 756 00:40:53,218 --> 00:40:54,720 He just gets right to the cook and gets it done, 757 00:40:54,820 --> 00:40:59,190 and gets out of the area and takes his rewards with him. 758 00:40:59,290 --> 00:41:00,291 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): 34-Year-old 759 00:41:00,391 --> 00:41:03,061 Jonathan John Brown, also known as Thumper, 760 00:41:03,161 --> 00:41:04,863 is a charter member of a motorcycle 761 00:41:04,963 --> 00:41:06,832 gang known as the Hessians. 762 00:41:06,932 --> 00:41:08,567 Currently he is a federal fugitive 763 00:41:08,667 --> 00:41:10,836 with outstanding warrants in California, 764 00:41:10,936 --> 00:41:12,137 Tennessee, and Oregon. 765 00:41:19,611 --> 00:41:23,248 Brown managed to elude detection until November of 1987, 766 00:41:23,348 --> 00:41:26,251 when after a lengthy stakeout he was tracked to one of his labs 767 00:41:26,351 --> 00:41:28,086 near Lancaster, California. 768 00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:32,658 HENRY COSTALES: On this particular day 769 00:41:32,758 --> 00:41:36,261 we observed Jonathan John Brown carrying six, five 770 00:41:36,361 --> 00:41:38,163 gallon containers of acetone. 771 00:41:38,263 --> 00:41:40,065 He had about 30 gallons of acetone-- which 772 00:41:40,165 --> 00:41:42,100 is quite a sizable amount. 773 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,936 And by the fact that he had such a sizable quantity 774 00:41:45,036 --> 00:41:50,676 would indicate to us that this was a sizable Meth lab. 775 00:41:50,776 --> 00:41:52,544 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): As Brown pulled away in his truck 776 00:41:52,644 --> 00:41:55,914 the police closed in. 777 00:41:56,014 --> 00:41:57,348 Out of the car. 778 00:41:57,448 --> 00:41:58,316 Hands on the roof. 779 00:41:58,416 --> 00:41:59,284 Move faster. 780 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,824 HENRY COSTALES (VOICEOVER): He told us that the acetone belong 781 00:42:05,924 --> 00:42:09,561 to another subject and that he was merely 782 00:42:09,661 --> 00:42:13,131 delivering the chemicals. 783 00:42:13,231 --> 00:42:14,866 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Thumper was arrested and booked 784 00:42:14,966 --> 00:42:17,335 temporarily on charges stemming from his possession 785 00:42:17,435 --> 00:42:19,104 of a small amount of methamphetamine 786 00:42:19,204 --> 00:42:21,840 and for some outstanding traffic citations. 787 00:42:27,278 --> 00:42:29,581 After his arrest a search warrant was obtained 788 00:42:29,681 --> 00:42:32,684 and police discovered a sizable clandestine methamphetamine 789 00:42:32,784 --> 00:42:36,454 laboratory, but by the time more serious charges could be filed, 790 00:42:36,554 --> 00:42:38,389 Thumper had been freed on bond. 791 00:42:38,489 --> 00:42:39,290 Be careful. 792 00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:40,859 Don't touch anything. 793 00:42:40,959 --> 00:42:43,762 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): He then vanished. 794 00:42:43,862 --> 00:42:45,631 HENRY COSTALES (VOICEOVER): Methamphetamine on a street, 795 00:42:45,731 --> 00:42:49,234 coming directly from a lab, would sell for approximately 796 00:42:49,334 --> 00:42:52,704 $10,000 a pound. 797 00:42:52,804 --> 00:42:55,907 They could have very easily produced anywhere 798 00:42:56,007 --> 00:42:57,508 in the neighborhood from 50 to 100 799 00:42:57,609 --> 00:43:00,211 pounds of methamphetamine finished product 800 00:43:00,311 --> 00:43:01,112 from this location. 801 00:43:03,782 --> 00:43:04,916 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Police estimated 802 00:43:05,016 --> 00:43:07,485 that with the chemicals on hand with this crude lab 803 00:43:07,585 --> 00:43:09,254 could have manufactured amphetamines 804 00:43:09,354 --> 00:43:11,522 with a street value of between one and 1 805 00:43:11,623 --> 00:43:12,691 and 1/2 million dollars. 806 00:43:19,264 --> 00:43:23,068 February of 1988, Thumper had managed to elude police 807 00:43:23,168 --> 00:43:24,970 when an informant told investigators 808 00:43:25,070 --> 00:43:26,805 that he was hiding out at a remote drug 809 00:43:26,905 --> 00:43:28,106 lab near Medford, Oregon. 810 00:43:30,709 --> 00:43:32,978 We were not exactly sure what we were 811 00:43:33,078 --> 00:43:34,846 going to find in the house. 812 00:43:34,946 --> 00:43:38,549 We had intelligence that there was a good deal of weaponry 813 00:43:38,650 --> 00:43:41,619 in the house and that these people were to be 814 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:43,054 considered quite dangerous. 815 00:43:47,826 --> 00:43:51,462 Immediately upon forcing the door open with the door ram, 816 00:43:51,562 --> 00:43:55,033 the entering team received gunfire from inside. 817 00:43:55,133 --> 00:43:56,534 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Two police were wounded 818 00:43:56,634 --> 00:43:58,003 and one Hessian was killed. 819 00:44:02,373 --> 00:44:04,209 The battle ended when police threw 820 00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:05,711 tear gas into the premises. 821 00:44:05,811 --> 00:44:07,578 The people in the house surrendered. 822 00:44:11,516 --> 00:44:13,785 When the officer searched the property 823 00:44:13,885 --> 00:44:19,691 they found various drugs and a crude lab, but no Thumper. 824 00:44:19,791 --> 00:44:21,893 KURT BARTHEL: In conducting interviews with the neighbors, 825 00:44:21,993 --> 00:44:24,295 I was able to find out that Thumper was 826 00:44:24,395 --> 00:44:27,465 a regular on the premises that stayed there quite 827 00:44:27,565 --> 00:44:30,802 often and normally for long periods of time 828 00:44:30,902 --> 00:44:33,138 and was there as early as one day prior to the raid, 829 00:44:33,238 --> 00:44:35,040 and that if the raid would have been done one day earlier 830 00:44:35,140 --> 00:44:37,843 we would have captured him too. 831 00:44:37,943 --> 00:44:39,010 NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Brown travels 832 00:44:39,110 --> 00:44:41,079 alone and has helped set up his illicit labs 833 00:44:41,179 --> 00:44:42,447 across the country. 834 00:44:42,547 --> 00:44:44,349 He keeps a low profile, but seldom 835 00:44:44,449 --> 00:44:48,019 goes anywhere without his large, Neapolitan, bull, mastiff dog. 836 00:44:51,723 --> 00:44:53,624 Jonathan John Brown is six feet in height 837 00:44:53,725 --> 00:44:55,693 and weighs 190 pounds. 838 00:44:55,794 --> 00:44:59,230 He has a pockmarked complexion, and brown hair, and brown eyes. 839 00:44:59,330 --> 00:45:03,334 He also supports several distinctive tattoos. 840 00:45:03,434 --> 00:45:06,071 Both arms feature in an iron cross behind a skull 841 00:45:06,171 --> 00:45:08,173 with a knife through it and one on his chest 842 00:45:08,273 --> 00:45:10,809 reads Hessians a West Coast. 843 00:45:10,909 --> 00:45:12,744 [music playing] 844 00:45:28,459 --> 00:45:32,130 Join me next week for another edition of Unsolved Mysteries. 845 00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:35,466 [music playing] 67237

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