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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
This program
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is about unsolved mysteries.
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Whenever possible, the
actual family members
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and police officials
have participated
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in recreating the events.
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What you are about to see
is not a news broadcast.
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[music playing]
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Georgia Rudolph has
been haunted by dreams
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and memories of a
young girl who lived
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at the turn of the century.
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A girl in Georgia never knew,
in a place she'd never visited.
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Amazingly, her descriptions
of the girl's life
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appear to be corroborated
by facts that she
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had no possible way of knowing.
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Could George's experiences
be evidence of reincarnation?
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Rookie police Officer,
Steve Sandlin,
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was found shot to death in the
station house where he worked.
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Some believe he stumbled on a
case of small town corruption
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and was murdered.
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We'll also profile a case
of a man called Thumper--
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an outlaw biker who travels
across the country setting up
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illegal drug laboratories to
manufacture highly addictive
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methamphetamines.
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Tonight, with your
help, Thumper may
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finally be brought to justice.
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[music playing]
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Reincarnation.
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To our ears the word
has a eerie ring.
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The dictionary
definition-- rebirth
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of the soul in a new body--
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seems a pale few
words that describes
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such an extraordinary concept.
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Much of the world believes
absolutely in reincarnation,
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but for people who don't,
the onset of dreams
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and memories that
cannot be explained
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is often very upsetting.
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That was the case for a woman
we found named Georgia Rudolf.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
For 33 years
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Georgia's mind has
conjured up visions
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of a mysterious young girl.
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In one of the most vivid
the girl was with an older
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woman, perhaps her grandmother.
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In all of Georgia's visions
neither the time nor the place
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is familiar.
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER):
There's a lot of sensation.
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I feel the cold.
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I feel the night.
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I smell the horses.
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I smell the leather.
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I can feel the girl--
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but it feels like myself--
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climbing on this carriage
and going down the road.
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And I can hear the sound
of the horse's hooves.
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I can feel the movement
of the carriage.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Georgia Rudolph
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is a 41-year-old registered
nurse living in Macon, Georgia.
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Since childhood she's been beset
by recurring mental images.
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Sometimes they appear
as dreams, or often
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as memories of an event
she has never experienced.
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER):
There never seemed
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to be a common
denominator of what
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would trigger off the memories.
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I would be sitting,
playing, or I
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would be watching TV and just--
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there would be a memory.
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As a child, I
don't think there
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was a moment that
went by that I didn't
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have either memories or dreams.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Georgia Rudolph
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was born in Columbus, Ohio.
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At the age of three,
she was placed
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in a series of foster homes.
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When she was five Georgia was
adopted and the memories began.
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[music playing]
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): As a
little girl I was different.
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I used to draw the
picture of this girl
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and I would just do stacks
after stacks, after stacks,
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of this picture.
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I've also drawn a picture
of a house since I was five,
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and then the house
would go with the girl.
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And if I didn't get her right
I would erase her or tear
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it up and start all over again.
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I knew exactly how this
girl was supposed to look.
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My whole childhood I thought I
was crazy because the drawings
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were of the girl that
I would dream about.
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And when I remember her
it's always the drawing.
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The face-- I have
always known that face.
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I've seen her two
different ages.
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One as a young woman,
18, 19 years old,
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and as a young girl--
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probably 8, 9.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
As Georgia grew older
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her impressions of the
past began to accumulate.
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Often they are no more
than a flash of an image,
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but curiously, all
the images seemed
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to come from an earlier time.
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A time around the
turn of the century.
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There were no
automobiles, or airplanes,
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but there were repeated
images of old fashioned
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sternwheels, which Georgia, in
her lifetime, had never seen.
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): It's
not like a childhood memory.
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It feels different.
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It's like taking a
picture from my mind,
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projecting it on
a screen and just
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replaying it over and over.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
A river seemed to play
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a large part Georgia's dreams.
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Another constant was a young
man dressed in a brown suit
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and wearing a Derby hat.
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Sometimes he was along.
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Sometimes her was with
a girl, and always it
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was a recurring image of
a horse drawn carriage
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on a cold winter night.
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): I kept
feeling that they were memories
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of pre-adoption that
nobody would tell me about,
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but when I found my
biological parents I found
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that the memories had
nothing to do with my life
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before I was adopted.
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When Georgia first contacted
me I felt it might be something
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like an early traumatic
childhood memory that she was
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trying to remember,
or re-experience,
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or possibly it could be
an aspect of a multiple
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personality where she
was imagining herself,
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or experiencing herself
to be someone different,
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which sometimes
happens in these cases.
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Other than that,
the reincarnation
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was probably the
last thing in my mind
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about what had happened to her.
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So we're going to go through a
procedure this evening that--
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Dr. Douglas Smith
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is deputy director
of a mental health
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center in Macon, Georgia.
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In 1984, he began
regressive hypnosis therapy
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with Georgia Rudolf.
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It is a type of analysis
that lets the patient go back
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in time under hypnosis but still
remember everything she says.
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DOUGLAS SMITH: To let
it out very slowly.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Last December,
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we asked Georgia to, once
again, undergo hypnosis
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with Dr. Smith.
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DOUGLAS SMITH:
Relaxed and at ease.
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Try to allow all the
tension to leave your body.
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): During
the first session of hypnosis,
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he asked me a question, and
referred to me as Georgia.
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I remember very
vividly, saying, I don't
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know who you're talking to.
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And he said, well if this
isn't Georgia, then who is it.
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And I remember saying, my
name is Sandra Jean Jenkins.
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DOUGLAS SMITH: And what
year were you born, Sandra?
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1895.
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DOUGLAS SMITH: Do
you have a boyfriend?
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Yes.
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Georgia seems to me, a
very down to earth person.
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She doesn't go around reading
a lot of psychic magazines
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and esoteric material.
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So I think that she's a
very stable individual.
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And it surprised me
when she came out
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with the amount of
emotion, and affect,
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and details that she
did under hypnosis.
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The sensation that I had
when I gave her name, her age,
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and said, I was
born in 1895, is one
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that I will never forget
because I felt like my head was
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going to come off of my body.
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It hurt so bad.
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DOUGLAS SMITH: Look
down at yourself
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and tell me what you look like.
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I have brown hair.
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER):
My eyes are brown.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Georgia came
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to believe that the face she had
drawn so many times as a child
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was the face of Sandra Jean
Jenkins, who was also the girl
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in her memories and dreams.
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Further therapy sessions began
to give detail to her images.
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Georgia could now
clearly see Sandra
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Jean on a stern wheeler
which apparently
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belonged to her family.
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One of the men on the boat was
the young man in the derby hat
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whom she'd seen so often.
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His name was Tommy Hicks.
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He and Sandra Jean
we're sweethearts.
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The sessions also revealed
that the two of them
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were about to be married.
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): When this
came out about Sandra Jean,
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not only did I feel I was
crazy, it scared me to death.
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It went against everything
that I have ever been
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taught as far as religion goes.
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She is very
sincere in her belief
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that she actually, subjectively,
experienced all the things
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that she has experienced in that
past life that she described.
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She's not faking or pretending.
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It is a real experience for her.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Were the images
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that had haunted Georgia
Rudolph for more than 30 years,
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evidence of reincarnation?
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When we return, Georgia
travels 500 miles from home
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and finds unexplainable
coincidences between her dreams
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and the life of
Sandra Jean Jenkins.
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For more than 30
years Georgia Rudolph
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was plagued by mystifying
impressions of a past
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she knew nothing about.
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She was afraid to admit the
possibility that she might be
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the reincarnation
of a girl named
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Sandra Jean Jenkins who lived
at the turn of the century.
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Under hypnosis,
Georgia had repeatedly
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mentioned the word Marietta.
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It became clear to Georgia
that Marietta was a place.
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A place that might reveal a
connection between her dreams
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and the life Sandra
Jean Jenkins.
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Marietta, Ohio is
a city of 35,000
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located at the confluence of
the Ohio and Muskegon Rivers.
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In its heyday, at the
turn of the century,
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it was a major river port--
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because Georgia's dreams were
centered on a river and river
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boats, she went to
Marietta in 1985 hoping
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to find a record of the
people and places so
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00:12:41,528 --> 00:12:42,896
vividly etched in her memory.
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GEORGIA (VOICEOVER):
If I'm not mistaken
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it was a big, red,
brick building.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Georgia had
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00:12:47,234 --> 00:12:49,769
arranged to meet with a
reporter named Ted Bower.
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He was a lifelong resident
of the city and for 32 years
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00:12:52,940 --> 00:12:56,476
had worked for the
local newspaper.
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TED BAUER: When Georgia
arrived in Marietta I'd said,
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I'll take you around and
show you some of the places
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00:13:01,581 --> 00:13:03,483
that you've talked
about over the phone.
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00:13:03,583 --> 00:13:07,855
And She says no, I'll
show you where to go.
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00:13:07,955 --> 00:13:11,791
I couldn't believe her
knowledge of Marietta.
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00:13:11,892 --> 00:13:14,727
She knew as much or more
than some of the old timers
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knew about the town.
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GEORGIA RUDOLF: I
remember this place.
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NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Ted Bauer
was amazed when Georgia stopped
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in front of an insurance company
and suddenly began describing
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00:13:24,337 --> 00:13:26,974
the interior of an ice cream
parlor which had been there
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00:13:27,074 --> 00:13:29,910
at the turn of the century.
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00:13:30,010 --> 00:13:32,012
Incredibly the
decor she remembered
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00:13:32,112 --> 00:13:34,681
had been completely
changed in 1937--
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00:13:34,781 --> 00:13:37,517
11 years before
Georgia was born.
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I remember the tile inside.
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00:13:39,119 --> 00:13:40,753
It was like, red and white.
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00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:43,857
And it was like red,
white, red, white.
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00:13:43,957 --> 00:13:47,160
And it was tile, but it wasn't
like the tile we see today.
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TED BAUER: She described the
interior almost perfectly.
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I checked this with
the son of the man
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00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,103
who had run it for years.
245
00:13:56,203 --> 00:13:58,838
In a way it seems crazy,
but what do you do?
246
00:13:58,939 --> 00:14:02,609
She was accurate about
her descriptions.
247
00:14:02,709 --> 00:14:06,413
I was just baffled by her.
248
00:14:06,513 --> 00:14:08,681
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Ted
Bauer's curiosity was aroused.
249
00:14:08,781 --> 00:14:10,383
He began to
investigate on his own
250
00:14:10,483 --> 00:14:12,619
to see if the things
Georges seemed to remember
251
00:14:12,719 --> 00:14:14,321
could somehow have
been available to her
252
00:14:14,421 --> 00:14:15,288
in local records.
253
00:14:18,525 --> 00:14:19,859
TED BAUER: I did
a lot of research.
254
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,197
I talked to family members
of former store owners
255
00:14:24,297 --> 00:14:29,202
and I checked around
newspaper files.
256
00:14:29,302 --> 00:14:31,204
I've thought about
it many times,
257
00:14:31,304 --> 00:14:34,674
and it's possible that she
could have done some research
258
00:14:34,774 --> 00:14:36,876
or had it done for
her, but I don't know
259
00:14:36,977 --> 00:14:38,345
how that could have been done.
260
00:14:38,445 --> 00:14:41,581
It would have been
a tremendous job.
261
00:14:41,681 --> 00:14:44,451
I can't buy the
reincarnation bit, but she
262
00:14:44,551 --> 00:14:46,119
has some kind of power--
263
00:14:46,219 --> 00:14:51,458
some way of knowing what
happened in the past.
264
00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:56,329
I don't know what the power
would be, but she has it.
265
00:14:56,429 --> 00:15:04,604
When I began to understand
that I was being 100% correct,
266
00:15:04,704 --> 00:15:07,774
there was a fright, but
there was an excitement that
267
00:15:07,874 --> 00:15:11,044
was starting to build in me.
268
00:15:11,144 --> 00:15:16,449
It was like-- this
is really real.
269
00:15:16,549 --> 00:15:19,519
I really was this girl.
270
00:15:19,619 --> 00:15:25,925
And when I started finding
things that were in my memory,
271
00:15:26,026 --> 00:15:30,897
it was like having been
away and going back home.
272
00:15:36,403 --> 00:15:38,171
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Despite
her uncanny recollections,
273
00:15:38,271 --> 00:15:40,840
Georgia could find no record
of a Sandra Jean Jenkins
274
00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:45,212
in Marietta, She next
visited a small farming
275
00:15:45,312 --> 00:15:48,881
community, Newport, Ohio,
five miles to the north.
276
00:15:48,982 --> 00:15:50,817
Here too, she seems
instinctively to know
277
00:15:50,917 --> 00:15:53,886
her way around.
278
00:15:53,987 --> 00:15:56,689
GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): The first
thing I saw when entering
279
00:15:56,789 --> 00:16:00,627
Newport was a big, gray house.
280
00:16:00,727 --> 00:16:04,131
It sent chills through my body.
281
00:16:04,231 --> 00:16:07,734
It was like, this is my house.
282
00:16:07,834 --> 00:16:10,237
This is where I lived.
283
00:16:10,337 --> 00:16:20,113
I could see a room I knew that
this had been her bedroom.
284
00:16:20,213 --> 00:16:24,651
This was the house that
Sandra had lived in.
285
00:16:30,157 --> 00:16:33,493
[church bells]
286
00:16:41,734 --> 00:16:43,203
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Throughout Georgia's life
287
00:16:43,303 --> 00:16:45,305
a single dream had
always stood out,
288
00:16:45,405 --> 00:16:48,208
more perplexing and haunting
than all the others.
289
00:16:48,308 --> 00:16:50,510
In it Sandra Jean,
as a young girl,
290
00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:54,047
stands alone on the
steps of a church.
291
00:16:54,147 --> 00:16:55,948
GEORGIA (VOICEOVER):
In the dream
292
00:16:56,049 --> 00:16:59,452
I know she has to walk
exactly two blocks.
293
00:16:59,552 --> 00:17:05,792
And she's standing in
front of a cemetery.
294
00:17:05,892 --> 00:17:08,428
And there's a path that
goes off to the right
295
00:17:08,528 --> 00:17:12,999
and it curves and twists
in different directions.
296
00:17:13,100 --> 00:17:17,470
And then the path
eventually straightens out.
297
00:17:17,570 --> 00:17:21,374
And when she gets to the point
where it straightens out,
298
00:17:21,474 --> 00:17:27,046
she's on the side of a hill
looking down on a grave--
299
00:17:27,147 --> 00:17:30,317
which I know to be her
grandmother's grave,
300
00:17:30,417 --> 00:17:34,421
but I'm never able to get
the name off of the headstone
301
00:17:34,521 --> 00:17:38,591
Because it's that
point that I wake up.
302
00:17:38,691 --> 00:17:42,095
And I have had this
dream 200 or 300 times
303
00:17:42,195 --> 00:17:46,799
and always wake up
in the same place.
304
00:17:46,899 --> 00:17:53,706
[music playing]
305
00:17:53,806 --> 00:17:55,575
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): In
Newport, Georgia found
306
00:17:55,675 --> 00:17:57,244
the church from her dream.
307
00:17:57,344 --> 00:17:59,779
Perhaps now she could
discover the identity
308
00:17:59,879 --> 00:18:01,614
of Sandra Jean's grandmother.
309
00:18:04,651 --> 00:18:06,486
GEORGIA (VOICEOVER):
It frightened me.
310
00:18:06,586 --> 00:18:10,490
Everything I found
frightened me more
311
00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:15,628
because I still
didn't want to believe
312
00:18:15,728 --> 00:18:17,164
that this was reincarnation--
313
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:26,072
but I walked the two blocks that
I knew I had walked in my dream
314
00:18:26,173 --> 00:18:30,042
and I found myself
in the cemetery.
315
00:18:30,143 --> 00:18:35,382
And I started walking this
path and as I walked it,
316
00:18:35,482 --> 00:18:37,750
it began to dawn on me--
317
00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:42,522
this is the path in my dreams.
318
00:18:42,622 --> 00:18:51,331
I can remember my heart
and the feeling in my body.
319
00:18:51,431 --> 00:18:54,367
I mean, it was just
total excitement
320
00:18:54,467 --> 00:18:58,471
because I knew when I
reached the end of that path,
321
00:18:58,571 --> 00:19:02,008
I was going to be standing over
the grave that I had dreamt
322
00:19:02,108 --> 00:19:05,912
about over, and over, and over.
323
00:19:06,012 --> 00:19:09,048
And when I stopped
where the dream stops,
324
00:19:09,148 --> 00:19:13,019
I was looking down
on the grave that I
325
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:22,529
knew to be my grandmother's
and it said Mary Bevan Greene.
326
00:19:22,629 --> 00:19:24,964
And I finally got a name.
327
00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:34,307
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
The gravestone
328
00:19:34,407 --> 00:19:38,478
provided the missing link to the
house Georgia had seen earlier.
329
00:19:38,578 --> 00:19:40,913
At the turn of the century,
this house had been
330
00:19:41,013 --> 00:19:43,716
the home of the Green family.
331
00:19:43,816 --> 00:19:46,286
Moreover, the Greene's had
owned a fleet of stern wheelers
332
00:19:46,386 --> 00:19:50,223
which operated up and
down the Ohio River.
333
00:19:50,323 --> 00:19:53,526
Now, the story of Sandra
Jean Jenkins and Tommy Hicks
334
00:19:53,626 --> 00:19:56,329
came into sharper focus.
335
00:19:56,429 --> 00:19:58,765
DOUGLAS SMITH: I want you
to allow yourself to go back
336
00:19:58,865 --> 00:20:01,501
a little bit further now
and feel safe and secure
337
00:20:01,601 --> 00:20:03,303
in talking to me.
338
00:20:03,403 --> 00:20:06,339
I'm going to ask you a question.
339
00:20:06,439 --> 00:20:08,708
What happened to Tom?
340
00:20:08,808 --> 00:20:11,143
Tommy.
341
00:20:11,244 --> 00:20:13,580
DOUGLAS SMITH: Where are you?
342
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:14,547
I'm in my room.
343
00:20:19,386 --> 00:20:20,353
DOUGLAS SMITH: What's happening?
344
00:20:23,756 --> 00:20:24,657
Is Tommy gone?
345
00:20:24,757 --> 00:20:27,394
Yes.
346
00:20:27,494 --> 00:20:28,895
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Under hypnosis, Georgia
347
00:20:28,995 --> 00:20:32,932
recalled that in 1914, just days
before Sandra Jean and Tommy
348
00:20:33,032 --> 00:20:35,335
were to be married,
he was swept overboard
349
00:20:35,435 --> 00:20:37,837
in a storm on the Ohio River.
350
00:20:37,937 --> 00:20:40,172
His body was never found.
351
00:20:40,273 --> 00:20:42,008
Sandra Jean Jenkins
was left alone--
352
00:20:42,108 --> 00:20:43,876
and to her family's dismay--
353
00:20:43,976 --> 00:20:46,245
pregnant, with
Tommy Hicks's child.
354
00:20:48,915 --> 00:20:49,716
Tommy's gone.
355
00:20:52,685 --> 00:20:56,889
I don't want to be here.
356
00:20:56,989 --> 00:20:58,558
Mama will never forgive me.
357
00:21:07,467 --> 00:21:10,036
DOUGLAS SMITH: What is it she
won't ever forgive you for?
358
00:21:10,136 --> 00:21:12,004
My baby.
359
00:21:12,104 --> 00:21:14,474
[music playing]
360
00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:33,092
DOUGLAS SMITH: I want you
to move forward in time.
361
00:21:33,192 --> 00:21:36,262
You are now at the river
and I want you to describe
362
00:21:36,363 --> 00:21:38,264
to me what you did then.
363
00:21:38,365 --> 00:21:44,637
GEORGIA RUDOLF: I
take my locket off
364
00:21:44,737 --> 00:21:52,278
and I slide into
the water at a walk.
365
00:21:52,379 --> 00:21:53,245
And I walk.
366
00:22:03,122 --> 00:22:05,392
DOUGLAS SMITH: Where
are you buried?
367
00:22:05,492 --> 00:22:10,129
They put me up on a
hill close to the family
368
00:22:10,229 --> 00:22:12,499
but not with the family.
369
00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:13,866
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Georgia is convinced
370
00:22:13,966 --> 00:22:16,302
that because Sandra
Jean took her own life,
371
00:22:16,403 --> 00:22:18,070
she was buried in
an unmarked grave
372
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:21,608
just a few feet away
from Mary Bevan Greene.
373
00:22:21,708 --> 00:22:25,211
Georgia had said under hypnosis
that from Sandra Jean's grave
374
00:22:25,311 --> 00:22:28,314
you could see an angel
with one arm upraised.
375
00:22:28,415 --> 00:22:30,817
When she looked south
from Mary Greene's grave,
376
00:22:30,917 --> 00:22:33,420
Georgia saw the
statue of an angel--
377
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,021
its right arm extended upward.
378
00:22:38,691 --> 00:22:42,094
Georgia's discoveries in
Ohio do seem convincing,
379
00:22:42,194 --> 00:22:44,831
but is there any real proof
that Sandra Jean Jenkins
380
00:22:44,931 --> 00:22:47,767
or Tommy Hicks ever existed?
381
00:22:47,867 --> 00:22:50,002
Birth and death records
were a haphazard affair
382
00:22:50,102 --> 00:22:52,539
around the turn of
the century and so far
383
00:22:52,639 --> 00:22:55,307
neither of their exact
names had been found,
384
00:22:55,408 --> 00:22:59,512
but there does seem to be a
record of Tommy's parents.
385
00:22:59,612 --> 00:23:01,047
GEORGIA (VOICEOVER):
When I was under hypnosis
386
00:23:01,147 --> 00:23:06,886
I had said that Tom's parents'
names were Tom and Jenny Hicks.
387
00:23:06,986 --> 00:23:11,424
The only proof that I
have that Tommy existed
388
00:23:11,524 --> 00:23:17,063
was that in 1906 there is a
farm registered to Tom and Jenny
389
00:23:17,163 --> 00:23:21,200
Hicks in Newport, Ohio.
390
00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:22,802
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Georgia also located
391
00:23:22,902 --> 00:23:24,403
the Greene family's
nearest living
392
00:23:24,504 --> 00:23:26,405
relatives who
provided her with what
393
00:23:26,506 --> 00:23:28,641
Georgia believes is
evidence that Sandra
394
00:23:28,741 --> 00:23:31,644
Jean Jenkins actually existed.
395
00:23:31,744 --> 00:23:32,745
GEORGIA (VOICEOVER):
They brought
396
00:23:32,845 --> 00:23:39,051
out a picture taken in 1908.
397
00:23:39,151 --> 00:23:42,655
It's a family reunion picture.
398
00:23:42,755 --> 00:23:47,494
And the girl that
I call Sandra--
399
00:23:47,594 --> 00:23:51,097
that I have drawn
my entire life--
400
00:23:51,197 --> 00:23:55,134
is standing in that picture.
401
00:23:55,234 --> 00:24:02,308
It's all family, but no
one knows who this girl is.
402
00:24:02,408 --> 00:24:08,481
There was a statement made
by a member of the family--
403
00:24:08,581 --> 00:24:12,184
I don't know this girl's
name, but I know she
404
00:24:12,284 --> 00:24:13,686
drowned out back of the house.
405
00:24:17,123 --> 00:24:18,591
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): In
the family photograph,
406
00:24:18,691 --> 00:24:21,360
a girl from Georgia's dream
seemed to be standing slightly
407
00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:24,096
apart from those around her.
408
00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:28,100
The photograph is accompanied
by a complete roster of names.
409
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,804
Every person is identified
except the girl Georgia
410
00:24:31,904 --> 00:24:33,405
recognized as Sandra Jean.
411
00:24:37,143 --> 00:24:38,410
DOUGLAS SMITH:
Almost every culture,
412
00:24:38,511 --> 00:24:41,781
at one time or another, has
had a belief in reincarnation.
413
00:24:41,881 --> 00:24:45,317
Sometimes I think, in fact,
that it's a metaphor for man's
414
00:24:45,417 --> 00:24:48,788
anger over the brevity of life.
415
00:24:48,888 --> 00:24:50,557
In terms of whether
reincarnation
416
00:24:50,657 --> 00:24:53,626
is a real fact or nor--
417
00:24:53,726 --> 00:24:56,228
as a scientist I don't know.
418
00:24:56,328 --> 00:24:57,396
I want proof.
419
00:24:57,496 --> 00:25:00,967
I'm a doubter, but
as a human being
420
00:25:01,067 --> 00:25:04,203
I would love to have
it be the truth.
421
00:25:04,303 --> 00:25:09,542
I believe that
reincarnation is real,
422
00:25:09,642 --> 00:25:14,346
but I'm not sure what
reincarnation is.
423
00:25:14,446 --> 00:25:19,151
I know there's something to it.
424
00:25:19,251 --> 00:25:22,388
GEORGIA (VOICEOVER): I have
had an experience that a lot
425
00:25:22,488 --> 00:25:23,656
of people don't get to have.
426
00:25:26,826 --> 00:25:35,968
My logic oftentimes will
tell me, no this isn't real,
427
00:25:36,068 --> 00:25:40,339
but my hearth tells
me, yes it is.
428
00:25:43,643 --> 00:25:44,744
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Could the saga
429
00:25:44,844 --> 00:25:47,113
of Sandra Jean Jenkins
simply be the product
430
00:25:47,213 --> 00:25:49,515
of an overactive imagination?
431
00:25:49,616 --> 00:25:53,085
Could it in fact be a
reincarnation experience--
432
00:25:53,185 --> 00:25:55,755
the legitimate memory of
a life Georgia Rudolph
433
00:25:55,855 --> 00:25:59,091
lived at the turn
of the century,
434
00:25:59,191 --> 00:26:00,827
or could it be something else?
435
00:26:00,927 --> 00:26:04,230
Something we can neither
define, nor understand?
436
00:26:04,330 --> 00:26:07,166
[music playing]
437
00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:17,309
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): When we
return a tragic story of Steve
438
00:26:17,409 --> 00:26:20,346
Sandlin a rookie police
officer who, some believe,
439
00:26:20,446 --> 00:26:23,049
may have been killed because he
knew too much about corruption
440
00:26:23,149 --> 00:26:26,085
in a small New Mexico town.
441
00:26:26,185 --> 00:26:29,088
[music playing]
442
00:26:34,827 --> 00:26:36,528
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Everybody
who knew Steve Sandlin
443
00:26:36,629 --> 00:26:38,931
said he was born to be a cop.
444
00:26:39,031 --> 00:26:41,934
His father was a career law
enforcement officer and even
445
00:26:42,034 --> 00:26:43,970
as a child Steve
planned on following
446
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:47,006
in his father's footsteps.
447
00:26:47,106 --> 00:26:48,440
TOM SANDLIN: Because
I was a policeman,
448
00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:50,710
Stevie grew up seeing a uniform.
449
00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:51,978
He liked it.
450
00:26:52,078 --> 00:26:55,281
He used to wear my helmet,
wear my motorcycle boots.
451
00:26:55,381 --> 00:26:59,551
He'd go around the house all
day dressed up like a cop.
452
00:26:59,652 --> 00:27:01,654
Steve wanted to
be a police officer
453
00:27:01,754 --> 00:27:08,260
and nothing was going
to do until he did it.
454
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:09,595
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
In March of 1988
455
00:27:09,696 --> 00:27:12,464
when he was 21 years old,
Steve announced to his family
456
00:27:12,564 --> 00:27:14,967
that he had been accepted as a
member of the Mountainair, New
457
00:27:15,067 --> 00:27:17,336
Mexico Police Department.
458
00:27:17,436 --> 00:27:19,371
Mountain Air four, 10-8.
459
00:27:19,471 --> 00:27:22,074
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): But in the
early evening on May 7, 1988,
460
00:27:22,174 --> 00:27:24,777
while Steve was working
alone in the police station,
461
00:27:24,877 --> 00:27:26,779
his dream came to a violent--
462
00:27:26,879 --> 00:27:30,616
and still unexplained-- end.
463
00:27:30,717 --> 00:27:32,985
I can't recall the exact
wording by the individual
464
00:27:33,085 --> 00:27:34,887
that notified us,
but when we arrived
465
00:27:34,987 --> 00:27:37,089
he mentioned
something about Steve
466
00:27:37,189 --> 00:27:39,191
upstairs, a gun, and blood.
467
00:27:39,291 --> 00:27:41,227
And he didn't know if it was
a joke, or real, or what.
468
00:27:45,698 --> 00:27:47,266
DAVID CARSON (VOICEOVER):
We had our weapons drawn.
469
00:27:47,366 --> 00:27:49,736
We weren't sure what
we were walking into.
470
00:27:49,836 --> 00:27:53,039
And I went to Steve and I
remember saying to him hang on,
471
00:27:53,139 --> 00:27:54,406
Steve.
- Steve, hang on.
472
00:27:54,506 --> 00:27:55,775
Get him rolling, Gary.
473
00:27:55,875 --> 00:27:57,676
DAVID CARSON (VOICEOVER): And
asked him what had happened.
474
00:27:57,777 --> 00:27:59,145
Mountainair two,
[inaudible] your request.
475
00:27:59,245 --> 00:28:00,312
Officer down.
476
00:28:00,412 --> 00:28:01,447
DAVID CARSON (VOICEOVER):
He was unresponsive.
477
00:28:01,547 --> 00:28:03,449
He was breathing, but he
never did say anything.
478
00:28:07,787 --> 00:28:11,090
We immediately called emergency
services-- ambulance personnel.
479
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:14,761
And they immediately started
their life saving operation
480
00:28:14,861 --> 00:28:16,929
to try and save
the officer's life.
481
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:18,464
He was still alive at that time.
482
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,635
They were in the process
of trying to start an IV
483
00:28:23,736 --> 00:28:25,738
and shortly thereafter,
Officer Sandlin expired
484
00:28:25,838 --> 00:28:29,275
and he was pronounced dead by
the doctor here at the scene.
485
00:28:32,344 --> 00:28:33,712
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Steve Sandlin had only
486
00:28:33,813 --> 00:28:35,514
been on the force eight weeks.
487
00:28:35,614 --> 00:28:37,884
His gun and was
found by his side.
488
00:28:37,984 --> 00:28:39,952
Authorities believe that
the fatal bullet may have
489
00:28:40,052 --> 00:28:42,154
been fired from his own weapon.
490
00:28:42,254 --> 00:28:43,622
The cause of death
was, at first,
491
00:28:43,722 --> 00:28:49,628
thought to be accidental or
a suicide, but some disagree.
492
00:28:49,728 --> 00:28:51,297
We all know--
493
00:28:51,397 --> 00:28:53,565
those of us who knew Steve--
494
00:28:53,665 --> 00:28:58,838
know that there is no way that
it could have been a suicide,
495
00:28:58,938 --> 00:29:01,941
or even an accidental shooting.
496
00:29:02,041 --> 00:29:04,343
We believe Steve was
murdered and we believe there
497
00:29:04,443 --> 00:29:08,380
was a conspiracy to do so.
498
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,951
I think someone killed
Steve Sandlin intentionally.
499
00:29:12,051 --> 00:29:14,453
I say that because there is no
evidence that it was suicide.
500
00:29:14,553 --> 00:29:16,455
There is no evidence
it was accidental.
501
00:29:16,555 --> 00:29:18,825
And there's very
strong, persuasive
502
00:29:18,925 --> 00:29:21,928
evidence that he was
murdered and that his murder
503
00:29:22,028 --> 00:29:24,864
was planned.
504
00:29:24,964 --> 00:29:26,966
The death of Steve
Sandlin has touched
505
00:29:27,066 --> 00:29:28,434
off a controversy
that has reached
506
00:29:28,534 --> 00:29:30,736
beyond his grieving family.
507
00:29:30,837 --> 00:29:32,471
To date, one Assistant
Attorney General
508
00:29:32,571 --> 00:29:33,940
has resigned over this case.
509
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,976
Another, James Scarantino,
has been fired,
510
00:29:37,076 --> 00:29:38,978
but perhaps the most
disturbing allegation
511
00:29:39,078 --> 00:29:41,780
are those who believe that
not only was Steve murdered,
512
00:29:41,881 --> 00:29:43,315
but that his
killer's identity has
513
00:29:43,415 --> 00:29:48,921
been deliberately covered up
by law enforcement officials.
514
00:29:49,021 --> 00:29:50,022
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Mountainair
515
00:29:50,122 --> 00:29:52,258
is an isolated
community located 80
516
00:29:52,358 --> 00:29:54,326
miles southeast of Albuquerque.
517
00:29:54,426 --> 00:29:55,995
Despite the fact
that the area's known
518
00:29:56,095 --> 00:29:58,730
to be a center for the
cultivation of marijuana,
519
00:29:58,831 --> 00:30:03,635
the town's police department
consisted of only four men.
520
00:30:03,735 --> 00:30:06,572
When Steve Sandlin began working
for the police department
521
00:30:06,672 --> 00:30:08,707
he was enthusiastic
about his new job
522
00:30:08,807 --> 00:30:11,677
and often to worked
during his off hours.
523
00:30:11,777 --> 00:30:15,047
Stevie really enjoyed
the job at first.
524
00:30:15,147 --> 00:30:18,417
He's laugh and talk about
it-- everything that he did.
525
00:30:18,517 --> 00:30:21,888
However, toward the last, his
attitude started changing.
526
00:30:21,988 --> 00:30:24,056
I don't know exactly
what the change was.
527
00:30:24,156 --> 00:30:26,192
Steve just started saying
that things weren't
528
00:30:26,292 --> 00:30:28,294
like he thought they would be.
529
00:30:28,394 --> 00:30:29,228
Something was wrong.
530
00:30:31,864 --> 00:30:33,665
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): The
afternoon of Steve's death, May
531
00:30:33,765 --> 00:30:36,368
7, he had returned to
the empty police station
532
00:30:36,468 --> 00:30:39,405
after a disagreement with
Chief Carson over some traffic
533
00:30:39,505 --> 00:30:41,908
tickets he had written.
534
00:30:42,008 --> 00:30:45,177
DAVID CARSON: What I told Steve
was, Steve, slow down, son.
535
00:30:45,277 --> 00:30:46,712
You can't catch everybody.
536
00:30:46,812 --> 00:30:48,147
That's not your role.
537
00:30:48,247 --> 00:30:49,615
We don't want you to burn out.
538
00:30:49,715 --> 00:30:52,084
We don't want you working
16 or 18 hours a day.
539
00:30:52,184 --> 00:30:53,852
Just take it easy.
540
00:30:53,953 --> 00:30:57,356
And he seemed a little
down about that.
541
00:30:57,456 --> 00:30:58,290
He wasn't chewed out.
542
00:30:58,390 --> 00:31:00,993
It was just a conversation.
543
00:31:01,093 --> 00:31:02,528
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
By 7 o'clock,
544
00:31:02,628 --> 00:31:04,630
Steve was alone at
the station and spoke
545
00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:07,066
with his girlfriend
Michelle in nearby Bosque
546
00:31:07,166 --> 00:31:08,935
Farms, New Mexico.
547
00:31:09,035 --> 00:31:10,369
We were making
plans for the next day
548
00:31:10,469 --> 00:31:13,105
and he said that Chief
Carson yelled at him
549
00:31:13,205 --> 00:31:15,174
and told him to go
back into the station.
550
00:31:15,274 --> 00:31:16,308
So he was kind of
mad about that.
551
00:31:16,408 --> 00:31:17,843
And he said if they want
him to be a security
552
00:31:17,944 --> 00:31:19,711
guard that he would
sit up to the station
553
00:31:19,811 --> 00:31:22,414
and be a security guard.
554
00:31:22,514 --> 00:31:25,684
And while I was talking to him
I heard the a lady's voice come
555
00:31:25,784 --> 00:31:27,920
in and he muffled the phone.
556
00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:29,922
And I couldn't
hear what was said,
557
00:31:30,022 --> 00:31:31,357
but it sounded like
he was getting loud
558
00:31:31,457 --> 00:31:34,026
and she was yelling at him.
559
00:31:34,126 --> 00:31:36,228
And he said it was no big
deal and he said he had to go.
560
00:31:41,233 --> 00:31:42,734
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Approximately 45 minutes
561
00:31:42,834 --> 00:31:45,804
later at 7:45, Chief
Carson received
562
00:31:45,904 --> 00:31:48,807
word that Steve had been shot.
563
00:31:48,907 --> 00:31:51,043
DAVID CARSON: I saw no
evidence of any confrontation
564
00:31:51,143 --> 00:31:52,578
where there were shots fired.
565
00:31:52,678 --> 00:31:54,613
Nothing.
566
00:31:54,713 --> 00:31:57,316
And from an average
person's point of view
567
00:31:57,416 --> 00:32:00,786
it was, apparently, a suicide.
568
00:32:00,886 --> 00:32:03,822
Oh, there is no way.
569
00:32:03,922 --> 00:32:05,124
Steve loved life.
570
00:32:05,224 --> 00:32:08,794
He was happy, he was doing
what he always wanted to do.
571
00:32:08,894 --> 00:32:11,297
That was not--
that was not Steve.
572
00:32:11,397 --> 00:32:12,431
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Chief Carson
573
00:32:12,531 --> 00:32:15,034
believes that if Steve's
death wasn't a suicide,
574
00:32:15,134 --> 00:32:17,736
then it was accidental.
575
00:32:17,836 --> 00:32:19,071
DAVID CARSON: There
was information
576
00:32:19,171 --> 00:32:21,974
that came to us that he was
prone to play with his gun.
577
00:32:22,074 --> 00:32:24,010
I can see the
possibility that perhaps
578
00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:26,645
he was playing with his gun.
579
00:32:26,745 --> 00:32:31,150
And I think that, that probably
is the strongest possibility
580
00:32:31,250 --> 00:32:33,752
in Steve Sandlin's death.
581
00:32:33,852 --> 00:32:36,922
The possibility of it
going off is tremendous.
582
00:32:37,023 --> 00:32:39,691
Maybe a few years ago
Steve would have played
583
00:32:39,791 --> 00:32:42,028
with a weapon, but
I don't believe
584
00:32:42,128 --> 00:32:45,497
he would have played with
it in this particular stage
585
00:32:45,597 --> 00:32:47,766
of his life.
586
00:32:47,866 --> 00:32:49,368
Let's look at
the gunshot wound.
587
00:32:49,468 --> 00:32:50,936
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): The
results of the Steve's
588
00:32:51,037 --> 00:32:52,371
autopsy were inconclusive.
589
00:32:52,471 --> 00:32:53,772
Some believe that
the gun may have
590
00:32:53,872 --> 00:32:56,208
been as much as two feet
away from Steve's head
591
00:32:56,308 --> 00:32:57,509
when it was fired--
592
00:32:57,609 --> 00:33:00,646
an unusual distance for
a self-inflicted wound.
593
00:33:00,746 --> 00:33:03,049
Secondly, there were
only insignificant traces
594
00:33:03,149 --> 00:33:04,916
of gun powder found
on Steve's hand--
595
00:33:05,017 --> 00:33:09,088
an unusually small amount if
Steve had fired the fatal shot.
596
00:33:09,188 --> 00:33:12,258
Despite this information,
the Attorney General's Office
597
00:33:12,358 --> 00:33:14,893
refused to rule out suicide.
598
00:33:14,993 --> 00:33:17,329
dissatisfied, Steve's
family conducted
599
00:33:17,429 --> 00:33:19,698
their own investigation.
600
00:33:19,798 --> 00:33:22,000
I feel that
Steven was murdered.
601
00:33:22,101 --> 00:33:24,170
I feel that he was
murdered because he
602
00:33:24,270 --> 00:33:26,472
knew too much about something.
603
00:33:26,572 --> 00:33:29,608
Steve's death was a homicide.
604
00:33:29,708 --> 00:33:33,645
I think they killed him to
keep him quiet of something
605
00:33:33,745 --> 00:33:36,948
he may have known that was
going on down in Mountainair.
606
00:33:42,054 --> 00:33:43,089
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
The family's
607
00:33:43,189 --> 00:33:45,357
investigation uncovered
one possible motive
608
00:33:45,457 --> 00:33:48,060
for Steve's murder.
609
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,995
After only a few
weeks of active duty
610
00:33:50,096 --> 00:33:52,698
Steve had begun to patrol
alone and would sometimes
611
00:33:52,798 --> 00:33:56,068
wait outside local bars in order
to apprehend drunk drivers.
612
00:34:00,406 --> 00:34:03,475
Sir, I'm going to need to see
your driver's license, please.
613
00:34:03,575 --> 00:34:05,111
Sir, you're going to have
to step out of the car.
614
00:34:05,211 --> 00:34:09,081
Put your left hand outside and
open the door from the outside.
615
00:34:09,181 --> 00:34:10,316
Come out.
616
00:34:10,416 --> 00:34:11,450
Shut the door.
617
00:34:11,550 --> 00:34:12,851
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): On
the night of April 11,
618
00:34:12,951 --> 00:34:16,288
just one month before his death,
Steve arrested a local resident
619
00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:18,357
and made an important discovery.
620
00:34:22,361 --> 00:34:24,696
Is this yours?
621
00:34:24,796 --> 00:34:25,831
Sir, I'm placing
you under arrest
622
00:34:25,931 --> 00:34:26,765
for possession of marijuana.
623
00:34:26,865 --> 00:34:28,300
Put your hands on the car.
624
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:29,201
On the car.
625
00:34:29,301 --> 00:34:31,337
Spread your legs.
626
00:34:31,437 --> 00:34:32,638
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
The following day
627
00:34:32,738 --> 00:34:33,739
a warrant was obtained.
628
00:34:33,839 --> 00:34:36,708
The man's home was searched.
629
00:34:36,808 --> 00:34:40,011
54 pounds of marijuana was
discovered, with a street
630
00:34:40,112 --> 00:34:47,085
value of close to $100,000.
631
00:34:47,186 --> 00:34:50,622
Within days of the arrest,
Steve received death threats.
632
00:34:50,722 --> 00:34:52,724
Alarmed, he refused
to sleep at his home.
633
00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:01,500
There were number
of deaths threats.
634
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,169
I didn't dismiss them.
635
00:35:03,269 --> 00:35:05,837
However, it wasn't
possible to trace
636
00:35:05,937 --> 00:35:07,506
these threats-- the
mysterious phone
637
00:35:07,606 --> 00:35:08,840
calls, these kind of things.
638
00:35:08,940 --> 00:35:12,010
We we're all familiar with
these type of threats,
639
00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:13,879
especially after we started
arresting drug dealers
640
00:35:13,979 --> 00:35:17,316
and so forth they
became more amplified.
641
00:35:17,416 --> 00:35:19,017
So how long have you
been with the Mountainair--
642
00:35:19,117 --> 00:35:20,319
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
During this time,
643
00:35:20,419 --> 00:35:21,720
the New Mexico
Attorney General's
644
00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:24,690
Office was investigating reports
that the Mountainair police had
645
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:26,725
carelessly handled evidence.
646
00:35:26,825 --> 00:35:29,228
Steve had been questioned
by investigators the day
647
00:35:29,328 --> 00:35:30,629
before his death.
648
00:35:30,729 --> 00:35:33,365
The last time I
spoke to Steven, Steven
649
00:35:33,465 --> 00:35:34,800
indicated that
there was something
650
00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:38,036
going on that he did not agree
with down in Mountainair.
651
00:35:38,136 --> 00:35:42,073
He asked me what would
I do in that situation
652
00:35:42,174 --> 00:35:44,343
and I basically told
him to tell the truth.
653
00:35:48,347 --> 00:35:49,515
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
After his death,
654
00:35:49,615 --> 00:35:52,251
Steve's house had been
searched by the authorities.
655
00:35:52,351 --> 00:35:54,653
Three days later his family
arrived in the Mountainair
656
00:35:54,753 --> 00:35:58,757
to collect his belongings.
657
00:35:58,857 --> 00:36:00,392
These bowls are really pretty.
658
00:36:00,492 --> 00:36:03,195
Do you know where he
got them Michelle.
659
00:36:03,295 --> 00:36:05,130
EILEEN SANDLIN: Michelle
and I were in the kitchen
660
00:36:05,231 --> 00:36:06,398
and she opened a drawer.
661
00:36:09,201 --> 00:36:11,036
Ed, Ed, come here.
662
00:36:11,136 --> 00:36:12,471
EILEEN SANDLIN: What
we found in the drawer
663
00:36:12,571 --> 00:36:16,174
were several bags of marijuana.
664
00:36:16,275 --> 00:36:18,877
And Ed looked at us
and said, they've
665
00:36:18,977 --> 00:36:20,279
already searched this house.
666
00:36:20,379 --> 00:36:21,913
What's this stuff doing here?
667
00:36:22,013 --> 00:36:26,151
He said they couldn't
possibly have missed this.
668
00:36:26,252 --> 00:36:27,185
And they couldn't have.
669
00:36:27,286 --> 00:36:28,754
You just open the
door and there was.
670
00:36:28,854 --> 00:36:30,155
It wasn't hidden.
671
00:36:30,256 --> 00:36:33,659
It wasn't disguised in any way.
672
00:36:33,759 --> 00:36:37,028
It was just there.
673
00:36:37,128 --> 00:36:39,431
The only reason
that I could think
674
00:36:39,531 --> 00:36:43,369
of it being there was someone
had made an attempt to make
675
00:36:43,469 --> 00:36:45,103
Officer Sandlin look bad--
676
00:36:45,203 --> 00:36:48,173
or possibly, the police
department look bad, but I'm
677
00:36:48,274 --> 00:36:49,975
convinced that the evidence--
678
00:36:50,075 --> 00:36:51,710
that marijuana--
was planted there
679
00:36:51,810 --> 00:36:54,446
after Steve Sandlin's death.
680
00:36:54,546 --> 00:36:55,781
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Steve always
681
00:36:55,881 --> 00:36:58,850
recorded his traffic stops
on a small cassette recorder.
682
00:36:58,950 --> 00:37:00,819
In her search, Steve's
mother discovered
683
00:37:00,919 --> 00:37:03,355
that all of these mini
cassettes were missing.
684
00:37:03,455 --> 00:37:04,856
What happened to
these potentially
685
00:37:04,956 --> 00:37:06,292
incriminating cassettes?
686
00:37:06,392 --> 00:37:08,927
And who put the marijuana
inside Steve's home?
687
00:37:11,863 --> 00:37:15,267
This whole case is
like a big spider web.
688
00:37:15,367 --> 00:37:18,036
It just-- and it has tentacles.
689
00:37:18,136 --> 00:37:23,909
You go one direction and there's
five more places to look.
690
00:37:24,009 --> 00:37:28,046
Several witnesses were
found who stated that they saw
691
00:37:28,146 --> 00:37:32,384
Chief Carson parked, or
outside the Mountainair
692
00:37:32,484 --> 00:37:38,056
Police Department between
7:15 and 7:25, or thereabouts.
693
00:37:38,156 --> 00:37:41,092
We're not talking one,
two, but several people
694
00:37:41,192 --> 00:37:43,995
place him there at that time.
695
00:37:44,095 --> 00:37:46,732
Anyone who would make
the statement officially
696
00:37:46,832 --> 00:37:51,069
that I was in the area, or here
at the police station, any time
697
00:37:51,169 --> 00:37:54,973
between 7 and 7:30 is a liar.
698
00:37:55,073 --> 00:37:56,342
I was in the company--
699
00:37:56,442 --> 00:38:01,046
and it's very easy to analyze
where I was-- in the company
700
00:38:01,146 --> 00:38:03,615
of 200 to 300 people
at a public function
701
00:38:03,715 --> 00:38:04,716
at the Mountainair High School.
702
00:38:04,816 --> 00:38:06,017
And there are a number
of people that I
703
00:38:06,117 --> 00:38:08,086
was there with and
spoke with that can
704
00:38:08,186 --> 00:38:09,921
place me there at that time.
705
00:38:12,223 --> 00:38:14,025
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): There
are many disturbing questions
706
00:38:14,125 --> 00:38:15,661
involved in this case.
707
00:38:15,761 --> 00:38:17,829
If Steve was murdered,
why was he killed
708
00:38:17,929 --> 00:38:19,965
inside the police station?
709
00:38:20,065 --> 00:38:22,033
Why was marijuana
discovered in his house
710
00:38:22,133 --> 00:38:24,235
after a thorough police search?
711
00:38:24,336 --> 00:38:26,738
And perhaps most
importantly, do Steve's
712
00:38:26,838 --> 00:38:28,340
fellow officers
know more than they
713
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:29,841
are telling about his death.
714
00:38:33,545 --> 00:38:35,814
When I was offered
the opportunity--
715
00:38:35,914 --> 00:38:38,316
when I had the
opportunity, I did
716
00:38:38,417 --> 00:38:41,186
agree to take a lie detector
test for the Federal
717
00:38:41,286 --> 00:38:43,021
Bureau of Investigation.
718
00:38:43,121 --> 00:38:44,923
Their questions about
the Sandlin death
719
00:38:45,023 --> 00:38:47,759
were very specific.
720
00:38:47,859 --> 00:38:49,260
I was more than happy
to do that-- to get
721
00:38:49,361 --> 00:38:51,830
the opportunity to do it.
722
00:38:51,930 --> 00:38:53,365
I spoke with Director Nelson--
723
00:38:53,465 --> 00:38:56,802
with the Special Agent in
charge, Nelson in Albuquerque.
724
00:38:56,902 --> 00:39:01,973
After that polygraph was given
and his official statement was
725
00:39:02,073 --> 00:39:04,009
that the Federal
Bureau of Investigation
726
00:39:04,109 --> 00:39:06,344
has no reason to believe there
was any attempt to deceive
727
00:39:06,445 --> 00:39:09,948
them on my part whatsoever.
728
00:39:10,048 --> 00:39:11,817
I don't know if it's cronyism.
729
00:39:11,917 --> 00:39:14,586
I don't know if there's
other people involved.
730
00:39:14,686 --> 00:39:17,723
I don't know-- and
no one's telling us.
731
00:39:20,959 --> 00:39:24,763
That's the main frustration, is
that there are things that we
732
00:39:24,863 --> 00:39:27,599
know and can't
understand why things
733
00:39:27,699 --> 00:39:29,134
are not being done about them.
734
00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:36,141
If there's anyone--
anyone at all--
735
00:39:36,241 --> 00:39:38,910
who has any
information we would be
736
00:39:39,010 --> 00:39:44,049
so eternally grateful
to know that so that we
737
00:39:44,149 --> 00:39:47,252
can put our son to rest.
738
00:39:47,352 --> 00:39:48,754
[music playing]
739
00:40:07,906 --> 00:40:09,475
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Today
one of the front lines
740
00:40:09,575 --> 00:40:12,077
on the war on drugs is
inside illicit laboratories
741
00:40:12,177 --> 00:40:14,312
such as this.
742
00:40:14,412 --> 00:40:16,114
Using commonly
available chemicals,
743
00:40:16,214 --> 00:40:18,083
the operators of these
small mobile labs
744
00:40:18,183 --> 00:40:20,819
manufacture the highly
addictive methamphetamines known
745
00:40:20,919 --> 00:40:22,721
as Meth, crank, or crystal.
746
00:40:25,356 --> 00:40:27,793
Tonight police need your help
arresting one of the most
747
00:40:27,893 --> 00:40:29,995
notorious of these Meth cooks.
748
00:40:30,095 --> 00:40:31,463
According to
investigators he has
749
00:40:31,563 --> 00:40:34,165
masterminded the construction
of methamphetamine labs
750
00:40:34,265 --> 00:40:35,166
across the country.
751
00:40:38,103 --> 00:40:40,338
KURT BARTHEL: His
normal mode of operation
752
00:40:40,438 --> 00:40:43,742
would be to have any one of his
cronies set up a lab for him--
753
00:40:43,842 --> 00:40:45,511
just basically have
all the chemicals
754
00:40:45,611 --> 00:40:49,247
and all the necessities on
hand so when he shows up
755
00:40:49,347 --> 00:40:53,118
he would not have to do any
manual labor type operations.
756
00:40:53,218 --> 00:40:54,720
He just gets right to the
cook and gets it done,
757
00:40:54,820 --> 00:40:59,190
and gets out of the area and
takes his rewards with him.
758
00:40:59,290 --> 00:41:00,291
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
34-Year-old
759
00:41:00,391 --> 00:41:03,061
Jonathan John Brown,
also known as Thumper,
760
00:41:03,161 --> 00:41:04,863
is a charter member
of a motorcycle
761
00:41:04,963 --> 00:41:06,832
gang known as the Hessians.
762
00:41:06,932 --> 00:41:08,567
Currently he is a
federal fugitive
763
00:41:08,667 --> 00:41:10,836
with outstanding
warrants in California,
764
00:41:10,936 --> 00:41:12,137
Tennessee, and Oregon.
765
00:41:19,611 --> 00:41:23,248
Brown managed to elude detection
until November of 1987,
766
00:41:23,348 --> 00:41:26,251
when after a lengthy stakeout he
was tracked to one of his labs
767
00:41:26,351 --> 00:41:28,086
near Lancaster, California.
768
00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:32,658
HENRY COSTALES: On
this particular day
769
00:41:32,758 --> 00:41:36,261
we observed Jonathan John
Brown carrying six, five
770
00:41:36,361 --> 00:41:38,163
gallon containers of acetone.
771
00:41:38,263 --> 00:41:40,065
He had about 30 gallons
of acetone-- which
772
00:41:40,165 --> 00:41:42,100
is quite a sizable amount.
773
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,936
And by the fact that he
had such a sizable quantity
774
00:41:45,036 --> 00:41:50,676
would indicate to us that
this was a sizable Meth lab.
775
00:41:50,776 --> 00:41:52,544
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): As
Brown pulled away in his truck
776
00:41:52,644 --> 00:41:55,914
the police closed in.
777
00:41:56,014 --> 00:41:57,348
Out of the car.
778
00:41:57,448 --> 00:41:58,316
Hands on the roof.
779
00:41:58,416 --> 00:41:59,284
Move faster.
780
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,824
HENRY COSTALES (VOICEOVER): He
told us that the acetone belong
781
00:42:05,924 --> 00:42:09,561
to another subject
and that he was merely
782
00:42:09,661 --> 00:42:13,131
delivering the chemicals.
783
00:42:13,231 --> 00:42:14,866
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER): Thumper
was arrested and booked
784
00:42:14,966 --> 00:42:17,335
temporarily on charges
stemming from his possession
785
00:42:17,435 --> 00:42:19,104
of a small amount
of methamphetamine
786
00:42:19,204 --> 00:42:21,840
and for some outstanding
traffic citations.
787
00:42:27,278 --> 00:42:29,581
After his arrest a search
warrant was obtained
788
00:42:29,681 --> 00:42:32,684
and police discovered a sizable
clandestine methamphetamine
789
00:42:32,784 --> 00:42:36,454
laboratory, but by the time more
serious charges could be filed,
790
00:42:36,554 --> 00:42:38,389
Thumper had been freed on bond.
791
00:42:38,489 --> 00:42:39,290
Be careful.
792
00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:40,859
Don't touch anything.
793
00:42:40,959 --> 00:42:43,762
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
He then vanished.
794
00:42:43,862 --> 00:42:45,631
HENRY COSTALES (VOICEOVER):
Methamphetamine on a street,
795
00:42:45,731 --> 00:42:49,234
coming directly from a lab,
would sell for approximately
796
00:42:49,334 --> 00:42:52,704
$10,000 a pound.
797
00:42:52,804 --> 00:42:55,907
They could have very
easily produced anywhere
798
00:42:56,007 --> 00:42:57,508
in the neighborhood
from 50 to 100
799
00:42:57,609 --> 00:43:00,211
pounds of methamphetamine
finished product
800
00:43:00,311 --> 00:43:01,112
from this location.
801
00:43:03,782 --> 00:43:04,916
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Police estimated
802
00:43:05,016 --> 00:43:07,485
that with the chemicals on
hand with this crude lab
803
00:43:07,585 --> 00:43:09,254
could have manufactured
amphetamines
804
00:43:09,354 --> 00:43:11,522
with a street value
of between one and 1
805
00:43:11,623 --> 00:43:12,691
and 1/2 million dollars.
806
00:43:19,264 --> 00:43:23,068
February of 1988, Thumper
had managed to elude police
807
00:43:23,168 --> 00:43:24,970
when an informant
told investigators
808
00:43:25,070 --> 00:43:26,805
that he was hiding
out at a remote drug
809
00:43:26,905 --> 00:43:28,106
lab near Medford, Oregon.
810
00:43:30,709 --> 00:43:32,978
We were not exactly
sure what we were
811
00:43:33,078 --> 00:43:34,846
going to find in the house.
812
00:43:34,946 --> 00:43:38,549
We had intelligence that there
was a good deal of weaponry
813
00:43:38,650 --> 00:43:41,619
in the house and that
these people were to be
814
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:43,054
considered quite dangerous.
815
00:43:47,826 --> 00:43:51,462
Immediately upon forcing the
door open with the door ram,
816
00:43:51,562 --> 00:43:55,033
the entering team received
gunfire from inside.
817
00:43:55,133 --> 00:43:56,534
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Two police were wounded
818
00:43:56,634 --> 00:43:58,003
and one Hessian was killed.
819
00:44:02,373 --> 00:44:04,209
The battle ended
when police threw
820
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:05,711
tear gas into the premises.
821
00:44:05,811 --> 00:44:07,578
The people in the
house surrendered.
822
00:44:11,516 --> 00:44:13,785
When the officer
searched the property
823
00:44:13,885 --> 00:44:19,691
they found various drugs and
a crude lab, but no Thumper.
824
00:44:19,791 --> 00:44:21,893
KURT BARTHEL: In conducting
interviews with the neighbors,
825
00:44:21,993 --> 00:44:24,295
I was able to find
out that Thumper was
826
00:44:24,395 --> 00:44:27,465
a regular on the premises
that stayed there quite
827
00:44:27,565 --> 00:44:30,802
often and normally for
long periods of time
828
00:44:30,902 --> 00:44:33,138
and was there as early as
one day prior to the raid,
829
00:44:33,238 --> 00:44:35,040
and that if the raid would
have been done one day earlier
830
00:44:35,140 --> 00:44:37,843
we would have captured him too.
831
00:44:37,943 --> 00:44:39,010
NARRATOR (VOICEOVER):
Brown travels
832
00:44:39,110 --> 00:44:41,079
alone and has helped
set up his illicit labs
833
00:44:41,179 --> 00:44:42,447
across the country.
834
00:44:42,547 --> 00:44:44,349
He keeps a low
profile, but seldom
835
00:44:44,449 --> 00:44:48,019
goes anywhere without his large,
Neapolitan, bull, mastiff dog.
836
00:44:51,723 --> 00:44:53,624
Jonathan John Brown
is six feet in height
837
00:44:53,725 --> 00:44:55,693
and weighs 190 pounds.
838
00:44:55,794 --> 00:44:59,230
He has a pockmarked complexion,
and brown hair, and brown eyes.
839
00:44:59,330 --> 00:45:03,334
He also supports several
distinctive tattoos.
840
00:45:03,434 --> 00:45:06,071
Both arms feature in an
iron cross behind a skull
841
00:45:06,171 --> 00:45:08,173
with a knife through
it and one on his chest
842
00:45:08,273 --> 00:45:10,809
reads Hessians a West Coast.
843
00:45:10,909 --> 00:45:12,744
[music playing]
844
00:45:28,459 --> 00:45:32,130
Join me next week for another
edition of Unsolved Mysteries.
845
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:35,466
[music playing]
67237
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