All language subtitles for UNTOUCHABLE - Jimmy Savile documentary by Underground Films & Shaun Attwood The Reckoning BBC - YouTube - English

they were the police officers that came

around to his flat and leads Jimmy

Savile had Margaret Thatcher Jimmy

Savile had access to Broadmore Jimmy

Savile heard Edwina Curry Jimmy Savile

had Prince Charles Jimmy Savile had

everybody

[Music]

all of us what we call the peoples knew

what was going on

with the babies as bad as we now know it

was yeah we knew but what has been lost

is those people that could have stopped

it from happening or those people who

had knowledge about it so out of those

44 reviews not a single person has been

held to account

thank you

[Music]

thanks for watching the podcast it's

worth my sponsor Atlas VPN right now

changed my phone so that I am

registered out of America let's go with

Dallas Texas shall we

just like that I can now access

everything online that our American

friends can access whereas previously I

was blocked and we've got the best VPN

deal on the market enjoy the most

affordable online protection for just

1.83 cents a month which is just over a

pound and three months extra with 30 day

money back guarantee

protect unlimited devices Atlas VPN

protects all your devices with a single

subscription you can grab this summer

deal now because Atlas VPN premium is

just 1.83 a month plus three months

extra and with a 30-day money-back

guarantee protect your privacy and get

many benefits of Atlas VPN for the

ridiculously low price you can take this

deal by clicking the link in the video

description below on YouTube be quick as

it's a limited time offer thanks for

checking out our sponsor back to the

podcast

foreign

foreign

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

foreign

[Music]

ever come across

[Music]

people might question why we are doing

this documentary

after all Savile was exposed years ago

and his crimes were scrutinized by media

worldwide

it's common knowledge that Jimmy Savile

was a prolific

we know that there were hundreds of

victims abused over decades

this film

free from the constraints of mainstream

media is for Direct online broadcast

we have more time to reveal information

we can probe further and investigate the

darkest areas

offering viewers a full portrait of the

disgraced celebrity

over the last year we have interviewed

people with a unique insight into Savile

some were victims

Juan spoke about a friend who had

committed suicide after being abused

we spoke to journalists who highlighted

the numerous cover-ups by various

institutions

and we spoke to the man responsible for

first exposing the pedophile

the Jimmy Savile story is unique in

criminal history

now we know the facts we can reflect on

what happened

several questions still need to be

answered

surrounding the aftermath of savile's

exposure the main being

how the hell did this guy get away with

it for a lifetime

he said I reckon there's probably around

20 30 victims and I went 500 I said

there are 500 and he looked at me and he

went really and I went I could tell you

I've been doing this for a long time now

I said I reckon there's 500 victims and

of course where did we get to

500 victims

how many of shovel's victims were male

then so there were a number of mail I

don't know what that number worked out

to but there were a number that were

overwhelmingly or female

and overwhelmingly with children but

they were adult females and they were a

number of male victims his offending

Behavior was was

overwhelmingly females but what he did

do is on the occasions I think he

targeted young males because he saw that

as a power and control but not not in

the same degree at all as far as females

young victims but he does enter into a

quite

I say unique quite limited number of

offenders who cross across all the

spectrums as far as male female young

and old large majority of pedophiles

child sex offenders have a target age

group Savile wasn't like that

[Music]

it's not really about sex it really

isn't and and that's you know the case

in fact with some of the

perpetrators I talked to in prison who

don't really talk about it about the sex

they sort of uh they talk about love

they talk about needs they talk about

uh all sorts of things that are not

really about sex and I think with Jimmy

Savile uh you know there's something

kind of rather androgynous and unsexual

about him and it wasn't about sex it's

the fact that he could do this you know

yeah in interviews he always joked about

not knowing what love meant we also

spoke to Charles Halligan oh did you a

close friend and colleague from Leeds

General infirmary he told us this

he's always had enough of the ladies

um

you know once as well I say young I mean

you know the properties 16 upwards

and he's always had one it's philosophy

it will never get money because I don't

think I could stick with the person more

than three days

is he right when it comes to women

you've got a short attention span not

women know too much I'm all for girls

that don't know too much different class

to see uh

when you are single it's because of some

reason that you like being single uh

Jesus didn't find any problem with it I

don't find any problem with it a lot of

the time people say what

you're still seeing you've never got

married why didn't you get married

downstairs over the fence down here but

we don't believe that Jesus was quite a

ladies man though you are or have said

you were no no no he used to knock about

the ladies Etc in the book The Period of

time between his offending Behavior

certainly moved between the 60s all the

way up to the late 2000s so I think his

last defending was around 2007 2008

something like that and his earliest

offending in the 1960s in his his

offending didn't change that much it

became less aggressive in the latter

years he became older but in the early

years aggression

power and control were one crucial

element of his offending Behavior he was

he was a particularly nasty early

offender

I think it probably would be fair to say

that the majority of his victims were

from a vulnerable element not just in

terms of their age but because of their

their social background so perhaps they

sought out the opportunity to to spend

time away from home they didn't have

that relationship perhaps where they

spent a lot of time at home which would

take him away from being an environment

with Savile and of course Savile had

status around him quite quickly he

became this local DJ you know he CR when

you go back to his very early days he

created this this discovery club and

then that took him onto the scene in

terms of then doing

um the BBC staff and of course he became

a massive massive name and so I think

the large majority of his victims were

of that that Society where they perhaps

sort out something away from their home

life not all of them there were a lot of

people who were very you know very loved

at home and very cared for uh because

Savile didn't discriminate either way

what Savile did do of course and this is

not just savvyl this is any offender is

they're very clear in terms of their

targeting so offenders very quickly will

realize whether you are the right person

to Target they'll do certain things they

might say things they might do things

that actually test the waters in terms

of whether or not they can push the

boundaries and and therefore if they get

away with it they'll continue and of

course if they're blocked or they don't

all the response isn't what is positive

they won't do it so they'll Target them

and of course the more vulnerable you

are the more seeking you are of having

some kind of relationship whether that

be in a purely platonic way but but but

forming that kind of relationship I mean

there are people out there who

see someone on tele and think they know

him yeah you know they see that person

and automatically they have that

relationship with them and I get that

that's fine you know but I think that

way then there were people that

obviously sought Savile out because of

who he was and because of his status and

thought you know what actually he's an

opening to this and Savile did for some

not to the degree of course that others

you know Max Clifford was a classic one

you know this

um couch scenario where it offered

people opportunities to to get into

modeling or to get into television or to

get into film but Savile did that to

some

excuse me I don't want to rush this

why do you think someone like Savile got

away with it until he died versus

someone like Gary Glitter who got busted

and lots of other uh people who got

blessed just the sheer scale the fact

that he was said Jimmy Savile the fact

that he was friends with uh people in

royalty he was too big to topple

and I think that's that there's a lesson

to be learned there nobody should be too

big to topple but but uh uh you know he

he was such an important uh

part of the entertainment industry he he

knew so many people

um he was nasty you know people who had

personal dealings were saying he was

very nasty you know he was he was you

know his public Persona was not his real

Persona

um uh you know he was rich uh you know

he drove around in rolls royces and

stuff he was a do-gooder so people say

oh Jimmy so you can't believe that so he

had everything going for him to stop

this as well as the uh as we mentioned

before the lawyers uh in newspapers

would be reluctant to go from so so that

that in every respect he was in a

perfect position to do what he did

so victims fall into many different

categories often people say that

actually the more severe the offense

against people the more difficult it is

for someone to talk about it but

actually that ignores the fact that the

impact on an individual of an offense

differs depending on what has happened

to you so somebody might be raped but

they might deal with that really well

another person might be indecently

touched but their impact on them is

greater than the person that's been

raped so when you look at it in terms of

the the severity of the offense that

fails to ignore the impact of the

individual so when you're talking to

these people it is literally about

saying to them look you know these are

very difficult things that have happened

perhaps in your life but we need to be

I'd like to be able to talk about it and

by and large because of my experience

and my use to be able to deal that you

know I'm experienced in interviewing

children in adults in terms of sexual

offenses so I know exactly how to talk

to people without doing all the triggers

but crucially what you do find is that

the only way that people can move on

with their life is to deal with what's

happened in the past and that applies to

so many environments

So when you say that he knew people's

secrets

are implying that there were possibly

powerful co-conspirators in his crimes

absolutely yeah and whether they were

whether they're perceived to be as

powerful as him I'd say not I think he

was the most powerful by overwhelmingly

but there are other co-offenders with

him who offended with him no doubt about

that we got evidence compelling evidence

in relation to that and there are a

couple I think that have been prosecuted

or certainly going through that process

and there are others that have got away

with it but there's no doubt that

overwhelmingly Savile committed his

offenses on his own overwhelmingly but

there are a small number of occasions

when he committed offenses with other

people

and he knew exactly what their offenses

were and of course he had the power and

control over them so he was able then to

to bring him into his confidence and and

have that power over him the suggestion

that he was part of some pedophile

network no I mean people who've

suggested that are people who don't

understand firstly how pedophile

operates and secondly how Jimmy Savile

offended Jimmy Savile was the type of

person who could not he would not have

offended against somebody else

so he would not have offended had that

other person either not been offending

with in in the same room as him but he

was also very careful because he knew

that his world could come down very very

quickly and very few offenders commit

their offenses this idea that there are

lots and lots of pedophile Rings

operating all over the place is just not

true there are people that share lots of

other child abuse material with other

people that doesn't make them a

pedophary it just simply says it

means that they've shared with other

people their material

so the charity all raising all the

millions did he use that as a shield to

protect himself yeah I think he's so

I've quoted and I was created in the

radio times for saying this man created

some of his shows as a vehicle for his

offending behavior and I truly believe

that he did because the elements of

offending Behavior are twofold

access and opportunity right so the

access to children and the opportunity

to offend so he created the access to

Children through his vehicles through

his ability to be able to see children

spend time with children and his

opportunity was to be alone with them

because he was disrespectable individual

so he got access to children and the

opportunity and so those two key

elements of offending Behavior were

present and I believe that he created

some of those opportunities now whether

he created every opportunity in order to

offend I doubt it because people are not

bad all the time they're just bad either

a bit of the time or a lot of the time

so even in the worst individuals there

are positive traits in regards to those

people so I don't believe that that was

a Forefront of his thoughts all the time

but it obviously was a a large element

and that enabled him to offend to the

degree that he did which was at some

stage off the scale he was offending

probably every day at some stage

do you think the astronomical amount of

money raised for charity insulated him

that was another Factor uh all of it as

I say it was a do-gooder you know and uh

if you set out to be an abuser

uh you'd probably set out to do what

Jimmy Savile did wouldn't you you'd say

oh become a famous TV personality I'll

I'll do all this thing for children's

hospitals and whatever I mean he did it

all brilliantly you have to you know you

almost have to admire how clever he was

in his uh predation uh you know choosing

Children's Hospitals kind of being a a

humble Porter you know uh as we've

mentioned before kind of just gave him

access I mean he did everything right

and then having you know friends at the

the the high places

um uh you know he he he he he he thought

it out he was not stupid it's not a

coincidence

you know of all these things he did it

was all wet very well thought out just

as you know my humble care worker in a

children's home who who does it thought

it out of how do I get access to kids he

thought it out as well and he just

thought out a much higher level

now me when I stand in front of the

table and sent Peter's there and he says

you are not coming in and I'll say well

why not let's say because you're a

villain and he'll show me the debit side

and I said hung about and I'll show him

the credits I said does that mean

anything and if he said that means

nothing they're not threaten to break

his fingers uh some guy sees me as a

sinner some guy see me as a villain some

guy Stevens West every time you'll see

me as an uncle

we can't understand how people see us

but we say future is an uncle I'll try

and be a nice Uncle too I'll see you

later during his lifetime he gave Clues

as to his dark side

to a News of the World Report he said

I'm no saint I want it to be known I'm a

great Crumpet man

in 1974 a people headline told readers

why I never married

I can have my pick of 25 dollars per

night

while he was alive there were rumors

all of us what we call the peoples knew

what was going on

with the babies as bad as we now know it

was yeah we knew we all knew we knew you

go to top of the pops what you were

facing it was common knowledge but it

wasn't common knowledge in the media I

heard the rumors but I was working in an

environment that was totally male do you

really think that if I had got said to

something somebody at the BBC higher up

to me this is going on nobody took any

no they wouldn't have taken any notice

whatsoever 8 year old girls love Jimmy

Savile though don't they and of course

[Applause]

three life sentences

a spokesman said you think you know a

guy and then he goes and does something

like that

journalists and filmmakers probed

they kind of already knew the truth

when challenged he puts up a shield

and denied the rumors time and time

again

and a Gentleman never graset on ladies

as ever but we're not asking for names

we're just asking for the general

principles I mean we just want to know

if you live this summer by life of the

DJ

yeah give or take it but I mean

you know you were a gentleman doesn't

ever speak of lady well I don't know

where you come from or when I don't know

what your circles are but my circles

ladies are very interesting you don't

grass on them the Sunday Mirror and

other papers heard stories about several

over the years

victims reported their stories

but editors always chose not to run the

stories

so I was quick to threaten legal action

was Adept at playing the media

from your experience working in the

Press

do you have any knowledge of media

investigations into Savile or knowledge

of similar cases where the Press had to

sit on a story for fear of being sued

uh well we're often scared of being sued

uh and uh uh you know I did some quite

investigative stuff uh when I worked on

The Independent Newspaper

um and you know the lawyers uh uh they

don't they didn't have a final say the

editors have the final say but but you

know if the lawyers strongly counsel

against doing something uh you have to

uh accept that

with Jimmy Savile uh uh I mean yes he

was litigious and so it's difficult to

uh then actually uh go right up against

him he was very famous

uh he was uh you know quite powerful

um so I I do I

Sean I partly understand this but

actually I still wonder about it you

know that because I did even on the

independent when I was there in the in

the in the 90s there were stuff coming

up about uh Jimmy Savile and and people

people would kind of occasionally

mention it so so clearly they heard

rumors rumors about these stories

um and

you have to devote quite a lot of

resources to it I mean you you have to

for example I mean look at the uh the

Chicago sorry the Boston story of the

the priest that was then the film you

know and and you know you you then look

at that film and you see that it took

them you know a long long time to nail

that priest you know literally years

literally they had to wait till they

found a really good witness and so on so

some of it is just a lack of resources

even then I do Wonder just why nobody

quiet had the guts to do it I and I

suppose uh you know did they did they

you know were they prevented from doing

so somehow

okay let's imagine what would you know

the front page story would be very very

big you know uh Jimmy Savile in sex

scandal you know uh Witnesses blah blah

blah you know he he it would have been a

really really big story

um uh you know bigger probably than any

other

uh sex scandal story we've had he he was

he was a really powerful character uh on

the TV every you know every week or or

several times a week and

um you know it would have taken a lot of

guts to do

if I arrive at the Gates of Heaven and

send Peter says

you've been a very tricky man you can't

come in here

I'll break his thumbs

because I'm qualified to do that because

I heard the living being a wrestler and

I've never had a problem yet with

anybody who sometimes I've broke

how about that though as if there's

reasons for you going downstairs do you

have a conscience about that is there

stuff you've done that thing you think

will deny you access to the big man no

Jimmy Savile died in October 2011.

[Music]

he was seen as a National Treasure a

British eccentric with Decades of Fame

he was viewed as a hero for the millions

he raised for charity

friend of royalty and Senior politicians

Savile was knighted by the queen and the

Pope

so Savo was a friend of Margaret

Thatcher when Charles and I had marital

problems he was brought in as a marriage

guidance counselor by the Royal Family

how does a you know a guy from the north

very humble roots disc jockey

rise to such associations it's

personality Sean it it you know he he

did have a

uh you know uh I mean as I said I don't

think he was particularly funny but he

had a a certain wit about him uh

I don't think one could say Charming he

wasn't very Charming he like psychopaths

are described as Charming yeah yeah I

suppose I suppose you know uh you know

maybe he made people laugh a bit with

his stupid laugh himself and his kind of

whole you know all that kind of stuff

um and uh I didn't know that actually

that he was actually after a marriage

counselor you can't it I mean you can't

imagine anybody worse really

Princess Diana wrote that he was creepy

she found him very creepy good for her

yes I'm not surprising she got it you

know for once but as usual Princess

Diana got it better than uh Charles or

his mother uh it I mean it he

I think you maybe you have to understand

uh that

actors and people in their entertainment

industry jump a class or two don't they

I mean they might come from humble roots

but uh uh they they actually jump out

you only have to look at the Beatles who

are kind of like royalty now or Cilla

Black you know one of our great uh uh

singers uh who you know became a just a

household name and she was on all sorts

of TV programs dating programs and as

well as being a a singer that that

people in their entertainment industry

are kind of de-classe in a way they they

jump at you know we have this entrenched

class system in the UK uh that uh you

know generally people can't escape from

but the one is scary and I think this is

true in America as well that that uh you

know real stars kind of get out of of uh

of their class and so so they then

become part of the the red carpet Elite

um and that's maybe why they that you

know the royal family were being dumb

enough to work out the marital problems

of somebody who should never have

married that young woman anyway

that's another whole story but it wasn't

it wasn't an issue that could be sold by

counseling it was an issue that that

should never have taken place for the

first time because he was as we know uh

Consulting with somebody else all the

way through but um you know that's that

so I suppose it was like

a bit of kind of uh pulling uh saddle

out as a bit of a figurehead wasn't it

it was a kind of you know somebody who

was kind of very famous oh which showing

we're doing something about this

so I can understand the red carpet

effect and several Mesmerizing the

masses being on the TV all the time

to waltz into Buckingham Palace whereby

there's a royal protection police force

who would investigate you know your

background

and they would have probably been aware

of the accusations against him

why would they allow the Royals top

Royals to associate with someone who had

such claims against him yes that's a

good question I I'm may I can only think

that they didn't investigate him

sufficiently because I think if they had

they would have come across that and you

know remember he became sir Jimmy Savile

really you know so he was knighted so he

was in and out and he was in the in

Buckingham he was a friend of Prince

Charles's wasn't he I mean he actually

was a friend quote unquote you know like

that they actually uh did things

together

um you know when it was seen in public

kind of kind of together so

um uh I think he was above reproach

come on Sean if you get up there really

up there you're above reproach mate you

know you you you kind of you know

nobody's question I mean nobody would

look at David Beckham and think oh we

better check him out whether he was done

for shoplifting when he was 12 or

something you know that you you get you

get kind of you get above all that and I

think that that's what happened and the

English upper classes are are Daft

enough to be taken in by by that sort of

uh uh uh um uh kind of uh scale of you

know getting up so high that uh nobody's

gonna question you I think I think they

were taken in by that you think he was

an Illusionist yes absolutely

when he was finally exposed

his Fall From Grace shocked the world

never before someone's reputation fallen

in such a manner

he was a complex man with several sides

to his personality

he could easily flip between roles

from charity worker to famous DJ

from abuser to TV personality to all

round fixer of things

[Music]

supposedly yourself have said that you

put hundreds of girls in Planes Trains

Etc yeah surely this is a contradiction

in terms she has unreligious beliefs

well it all depends you see I'm like a

blip on the sound of life and I just do

my thing and mind my own business and do

it away and seem to be getting into

trouble for it

one did prove to be Untouchable and that

is Jimmy Savile how was he able to get

away with it for so long well Jimmy

Savile was clever because

he made sure he had friends in every

element

so Jimmy Savile had what he called his

Monday club they were the police

officers that came around to his flat in

leads Jimmy Savile had Margaret Thatcher

who tried to get him enabled I think it

was 14 times or something

every time her advisor said no

but he kept pestering her Jimmy Savile

had access to Broadmoor Jimmy Savile

heard Edwina Curry Jimmy Savile had

Prince Charles Jimmy Savile had

everybody

he found his way because he was clever

he knew that if he knew somebody in

every circuit

he'd always have a way out

he'd go well and anytime when he was

questioned by Louis faroo in that car

when they were driving in Scotland

um he was asked

um

have you you know people say things

about you so they can say whatever they

want about me he said if they say any

more I'll bring them all down and that

was and you watched you watched the

Louis faroo program I advise you to see

it and he will see him say that in the

back of the car and he was like he was

open about everything he did he was a he

just thought that he could just carry on

regardless

and people like Max Clifford enabled

these people

with their fake stories so max Clifford

would trade a story that recent program

on the BBC or Channel 4 whatever it was

I don't know why they showed it it was

pointless

said

oh you know he just he just did this and

he did that and he did no he traded X to

protect y

'all they knew that that was the game

they actually viewed it as a game

so they all work together

[Music]

there's power it's money you're talking

about the Prime Minister Margaret

Thatcher at the time she sent him a

letter but on a map giving him the

biggest ass

kissing he's ever read

Pope John Paul II

a Papal Knighthood

recommended by basil Hume

you will then have

I'm gonna bring up kirst Dharma

because roundabout

it might have been a bit later

he even apologized after several died

and said I'm sorry we didn't take the

chance now the only reason he didn't

take the chances is because he went to

Courtney was found not guilty starman's

ass is kicked he's out of a job

there you don't get his knife

but he gets United for failure

like everyone else has got that night

with people get knighted and rewarded

for failure

the people at broadball

have got rewarded for failure

they've been putting some high

high jobs

if I fell

okay

if you fell Sean

you get a big kicking over it the same

as everyone else in this one if we fail

or build up

but if you're in power and you've got

money

you will get the biggest Arch lick from

the establishment

that you've ever got

so we've seen a parallel with this

celebrity Association then we're by

Epstein had pictures of like himself

with the clintons plastered all over the

place and Savile had pictures of him

with Elvis Presley The Beatles yeah

these pictures were duplicated and and

put throughout various obvious locations

Barbara Bush

that was another one

she had um time with him

James Wilson Vincent Savile was aptly

Born on Halloween in 1926

he was one of seven children to parents

Agnes and Vince

he was the youngest child and possibly

an unplanned child born five years after

his next youngest sibling

the shovels were working class

Jimmy was a small undernourished child

and often ill

one Account Details an accident were as

an infant he fell out of a pram severing

a muscle in his neck

when the muscle refused to heal he was

left with an unusual condition whereby

he couldn't close his eyes

he slept with his eyes wide open

stirring at the ceiling

he would have spasms

doctors wanted to operate on him but his

mother wouldn't let them

eventually the infants recovered

for some time his parents had feared the

worst

[Music]

all right so a huge part of your book

Broadmoor Sinister is the Savile story

and you went and researched his entire

family upbringing did you yeah because

he had a strange medical situation

whereby his eyes wouldn't close didn't

he yeah and he was like the miracle

child that he existed you know he didn't

know that's shy I mean but his brother

he had a brother called John and another

web called Vincent unless I Grew Older

they tell me the top of stories that he

was a gifted child this is what him and

his mum who he called The Duchess were

very close Agnes

um it was about three month old that he

actually or four month old that he was

actually being pushed in a buggy and it

fell out the buggy causing substantial

injuries which resulted in several being

placed into a hospital for three months

they actually thought they were going to

illusion

um

and as time gone on he was the sort of

dream child of all the brothers and all

the sisters

he was the one that they all sort of

rallied Brown

you know lately it was that type of

special kid to them

and how do you think that played into

his psychology then

his feelings of you know invincibility

and superiority do you think that

anchors back to his miraculous survival

of his illness I think it probably

anchors back to

if you've got that child that's that

everyone rallies around it makes you

feel special yeah so then you can start

playing the game of hitting one off

against the other

this is where I think that half a travel

you know if he wants something if

someone wasn't going to give it to him

he'd ask somebody else

um he didn't pick his parents off

against each other because he didn't

have really much to do with his father I

mean his father died in if it's 1955.

he was an insurance

salesman he just went out to work and

come back as his mother

and his siblings but they all he paired

him off against each other

several lived through the Second World

War

leads wasn't bombed as badly as other

cities

he didn't evacuate and remained in the

West Yorkshire City for the entire

conflict

during this time he took an interest in

dance halls

he lost his virginity at a young age

to a young woman he had met in a dance

hall

from his own accounts he was around 13

to 15 at that time

he described the encounter as both

embarrassing and terrifying

in 1944

18 year old Jimmy Savile was conscripted

into the coal mines

he worked at three different mines in

Yorkshire

and may have remained in the pits if it

wasn't for an accident that ended that

career

a mile and a half away from the pit

bottom and two miles from the coal face

so what I did I took over closer because

a very warm down a pit took all my

clothes off unfolded them in a newspaper

and worked in the knobby right and I

saved a little bit of water in the

bottle and just before it were knocking

off time

I cleaned the hands off and cleaned my

face off right and I got back into the

pit bottom Immaculate now then nobody

but nobody ever did eight hours down a

pit and came back as Immaculate as the

set off with white shirt

they were quite convinced that I was a

witch and I never said a word and I

suddenly realized

that if you were different and he didn't

say anything about it you see it's had a

tremendous effect on people and that

stayed with me for ages and if you go to

South Carolina you'll get some of the

old miners when you say

you say

he's not what you think you know

the forces of Darkness are at work there

so that was the first time that I

realized it to be different

made a difference what was it like him

growing up wasn't a lot of like mining

activity in that region and didn't he

eventually become a miner yeah he became

what they known as a Bevan boy

um which made he couldn't fight in the

second world war so he was um scripture

down to the minds at an early age

um that didn't last very long because he

actually had an accident down in the

morning it was an explosion

that um render these back useless

um that didn't last very long at all I

mean he claims to be

um you know you're probably see him at

the center of later in life you know

with the Bevan boys and and you know and

the um remembrance Sandy

but

um that was a very short period of his

life that wasn't

something to be

you know brag about extensively I mean

you're literally a couple of months down

the mine

so was that part of his uh myth and his

Legend you know it came from such humble

roots yeah yeah he used that quite a lot

with people I mean he he played on the

um

the down schrodden bear

you know my mum's hard-working she had

to bring up seven kids

um my father went out to work hard to

support the family

well in fact he was certain insurance

broker but it was also a bookmaker as

well

so I'm coaching them times off Street

bookmakers wasn't the dumb thing

um

he spent a lot of time with his brother

Vincent had a lot of time with his

brother John

um and Vincent was to become a killer

later on life

Savile was a keen cyclist who took part

in the very first tour of Britain

he maintained an interest in Fitness

throughout his life

known for his love of running he took

part in numerous marathons over the

years

Savile started his media career as a

manager in dance halls

successful in this role he built a

strong reputation as an Innovative DJ

thank you for watching the podcast

here's a word from our sponsor

rocketmoney don't you hate it when

you've got subscriptions out there that

you don't know about taking all that

cash out of your account I recently

found out I had four Amazon Prime

subscriptions now I've got it down to

one

rocket money is a personal finance app

that finds and cancels your unwanted

subscriptions monitors your spending and

helps you lower your bills all in one

place

most people think they're spending

eighty dollars in their subscriptions

when in reality the number is closer to

two hundred dollars

when you are signed up for so many

things like streaming services you used

to watch one show or free trials for

delivery you don't use it's so easy to

lose track of what you're paying for

stop wasting money on things you don't

use cancel your unwanted subscriptions

and manage your money the easy way by

going to rocketmoney.com forward slash

Sean s-h-a-u-n that's rocketmoney.com

s-h-a-u-n rocketmoney.com Sean thanks

for supporting our sponsor link is in

the description box on YouTube back to

the podcast

after shovel sort of left the mining

industry

and recuperated

um what happened then was that uh his

brother Vincent got

Jimmy into nightclubs being a disc

jockey so that's how we got into the

night because it was for his brother

yeah right his brother is the key to a

lot of things not a lot of people know

but Vincent was a bit of a villain was

yes he was well known in the Underworld

scene

he had money

um he had power

um which I think is what Jimmy Savile

played on what kind of rackets would his

brother have been doing back then

rackets those rackets

um the nightclub game would have been

one of them as well because you can hold

a lot of it on the nightclub I mean it's

Manchester though you're talking the 50s

early 50s

um up to the 60s I mean there's a time

when you know

show booze and and just after the

war everyone's in one

all right so he gets this nightclub job

then now in the Louis Thoreau program he

talks about a situation in a nightclub

yeah and he kind of reveals that he had

some guy tied up in the basement I think

it was are you able to expand on that oh

I am I mean I I put it down to Jimmy

using his brothers Vincent's know-how

because all Jimmy was in the club at the

time was a DJ he was spinning records he

was the first one to get people up

dancing to records he was he was

and what made him popular was he drew

the crowds in then just as that started

started um what his brother suggested

was you know run night clubs

so he got Jimmy into running three

nightclubs in the Manchester area

now Jimmy said this is a bit of a power

trip because

his attitude was you come into my club

you behave

you don't behave you know if he was

known to take him downstairs he'd tie

him up and they would get a good beating

you know I mean

he played on the figure I mean his

brother

Vincent is the one that everyone was

feared of

so Jimmy used it

you know I mean he used that to

to his advantage

he never let on in like a life event it

was Vincent is the key to everything

so how did he get his lucky break then

he's lucky probably came

[Applause]

in the 60s there was a radio station

called radio Luxembourg which probably a

lot of people would have heard of

it was picked up for radio Luxembourg

and that's where he got his lucky bike

um he had hundreds of thousands of

listed all over Europe

um very popular radio slots in the

evening

and that took him for a number of years

and he was that then it eventually a BBC

got wind

um and that's how we got the radio one

job you know he

he spent many years at Luxembourg BBC

you know they will show

they pulled him in

moving into radio he became a DJ for the

BBC I'll tell you what we'll do Now

ladies and gentlemen top groups

good top the thing so how's about we

have a nice record Now by what is

definitely one of the top groups in fact

it was voted the top group in the Rhythm

and blue section this year 1967 got no

other down deep One and Only The Rolling

Stones and here they come right now in

television he hosted programs such as

top of the pops

which I'll never forget and clunk click

but his most famous show

was Jim will fix it which made him a

national icon

running for over 20 years some episodes

of the show pulled in over 30 million

viewers we got the letter from Mary Reed

from Saint Albans and she says Dear Jim

I have always had an itching to ride on

a dolphin's back I can swim very well

I'm 14 years old please could you try

and fix it for me savile's career gave

him access to Star Struck teenagers

good evening welcome another edition of

the pups lots of nice Invaders about

with us this evening are lots of nice

records we've got so what we're going to

do we're going to start off at number

nine this girl's crazy about this book

that's going to start it's number 19

it's called Coco what's the name of the

group yeah this is crazy about them he

was famous wealthy and inclined to

exploiting his fans

in the early days of his promiscuous

life he prayed on countless groupies

talking to writer and biographer Dan

Davies

Savile revealed this about his days as a

DJ

I would stand on the stage of a record

player with a thousand people in the

room for four or five hours

of the thousand people 700 were girls

if half of them can't stand you that

leaves 350 who can stand you

if half of them are not too keen on you

at all

then the other half is that's 125 people

if half of them actually don't fancy you

that leaves around 65 girls that might

want to go off with you

you don't have to be a brain surgeon to

work out that you're never going to be

short of ladies company

this story reveals a lot about how

Savile viewed women

it was all a numbers game to him

women were his sex objects

someone who knew Savile joining his

Manchester DJ days recalled how

colleagues would joke that Savile was

either going to be a huge success or end

up in prison for having sex with

underage girls

it was a sign of the times

people didn't think as they do now to

report pedophilia as a crime

don't forget as late as the 1970s

the government was giving hundreds of

thousands in Grants

to an organization known as p i e pie

the pedophile information Exchange

in today's society it is Unthinkable

that such an organization could show a

public face

times are different back then

is one of the reasons why victims

weren't so readily coming forward

it's very likely that 400 of you will be

injured in your cars tomorrow you will

be within six miles of home and doing

less than 30 and it's going to happen to

a lot of you ladies you'll be shopping

collecting the kids going to the laundry

for some of you the face you'll start

out with in the morning won't be the

same face you end up with by the evening

why let it happen Coke click it's so

simple hold the car door

hit the seat belt even if you are just

going around the corner clunk click

every trip

further evidence that mentalities were

different back then is the fact that a

woman came forward in 2012 to reveal she

had been raped by Savile age 16 in the

London hotel in 1964.

she had been a virgin at the time

finding out she was pregnant and

confronted by her parents

she disclosed who the father was

the parents contacted Savile who refused

to admit responsibility the family

arranged for the daughter to have an

legal abortion

Savile was 38 years old when this

happened

neither the girl nor her parents thought

it would have been appropriate to have

contacted the police

[Music]

dancehall goers recall Savile

disappearing with girls on many

occasions usually to his car even before

he went on stage or after

he'd return 20 minutes to an hour later

other Witnesses recall groups of girls

going to his flat day and night

Savile clearly didn't want relationships

with teenagers he could control and

manipulate and then move on

after he had had his way

it was all about the sex

nothing more

Anthony Clare who interviewed Savile for

His Radio 4 Series in the psychiatrist's

Cher recall some of the disturbing

things Savile said

several showed many of the traits of

being a psychopath

Robert Herr's checklist

device to identify Psychopaths

includes several traits we can associate

with Savile

slippery charm

a mask to conceal true self

low cunning and willingness to

manipulate

absence of normal human emotions lack of

empathy

sexual promiscuity inability to admit

mistakes fear of commitment repeated

attacks on the vulnerable

do you think to have that many victims

like Savile then to be a large-scale

psychopath like that

to have no feelings towards his victims

have you looked at his life history to

see if there's any you know nature

versus nurture I saw when he was a kid

something he banged his head and he was

he couldn't close his eyes he was like a

little baby and his eyes were open for

like six months and they thought he was

gonna die right

um the thing where his dad died from

from cancer

um have you seen any factors in his life

yeah I mean I think he had a very weird

life I mean his mother was a dominance

in his latter part of his life and even

when she died he still kept his cupboard

in the bedroom full of her clothes I I

think that that we never we will never

know what was going on in that

relationship with his mum

but I think it would be fair to say and

and people will draw their own

conclusion that it was unhealthy

at best uh but it was really really

wrong so but I don't know what else of

course took place in his relationship

he's saying there was a possibility of

incest I I leave that to people to make

their own determination there was no

evidence we never had any evidence that

told us that but I think his

relationship with his mother was a was

incredibly unhealthy for a Grove man of

his age I mean he never cooked he never

had any utensils in his house or

anything like that he didn't have any

food anything he he he he's scrounged

off everyone all the time you know you

go to a local cafe and they pay they'd

give him food he never used to pay for

anything I mean he he didn't own any of

his rolls royces and things like that or

his cars I mean he never I think he

finished two marathons all the other

marathons he got in the car and he got

driven to the end I mean the man's just

complete liar I mean he'd say he charged

three thousand pounds to turn up a fate

he'd turn up for 10 minutes and then

disappear I can't a total and utter con

working as a DJ in the 1960s Savile

often socialized with the police

until the day he died he maintained

close relationships with several

officers

in the early days did he sure the girls

around

were the police reluctant to pursue any

allegations against Savile for fear of

being brought into a prosecution

we will never know

what we do know is that Savile was a

master manipulator

I imagine he would have delighted in

corrupting and blackmailing individual

police officers

how is it possible that West Yorkshire

police

who governed savile's Hometown didn't

have a single shred of evidence against

him

by law they should have filed any

allegations made against Savile anywhere

in the country

the law requires that Regional forces

pass that information on to the local

jurisdiction

after he was exposed and various

inquiries conducted

the authorities learned that on five

separate locations serious allegations

had been made in different jurisdictions

they should have been passed on to West

Yorkshire police

sorry police told one inquiry they had

passed on allegations given to them as

recently as 2008

in their own special inquiry West

Yorkshire police of course

denied receiving any such reports

if you allow the police to investigate

themselves

what do you expect

this morning I woke up let me think yeah

I was on my own and

that is tremendous

how often do you wake up in the morning

and have to check to see whether there

is somebody on the other side

well

not very often because because what

happens I'm a pushover and if if

somebody comes and knocks on the door

and says I've lost my keys to go in

they'll say step this way and say I

thought I'd say that

not my fault like a album single fella

there's nothing wrong with it I'm prone

any laws have you none whatsoever

one of the reports West Yorkshire police

should have had in their possession was

a report by the Met police that Savile

was a regular visitor to a South London

brothel

the police records from 1964 showed that

three men were charged with living off

immoral earnings

what's notable is that absconders from

dunkroft approved School used to stay in

that house

intelligence that could have been of

huge importance

decades later during the Surrey police

investigation in 2008.

had this information been seen by Surrey

police in 2008 surely it would have

raised suspicions further

maybe they would have detected a pattern

of behavior

Savile was clearly protected by his

celebrity status

he must have felt untouchable

as the years went by

the longer he went undetected he surely

grew in confidence and was prepared to

offend again and again brazenly

attacking his victims

luckily for Savile he managed to dodge a

huge bullet in the 1960s

media sources claimed there was a

newspaper investigation into his private

life and specifically into his

preference for underage girls

they had names and plenty of evidence

unfortunately for hundreds of future

victims

the very same newspaper decided to hire

Savile as a columnist and the

investigation was killed

the editor wanted to appeal to younger

readers

had this not been the case several may

have been exposed way back in 1967.

[Music]

well I went to Stage School

and I'd been there since I was five

years of age

so during that time I did films adverts

modeling

television

plays

shows

over the years

and then I danced at school

I acted at school

we had limited education in the daytime

and we went out for auditions

uh to get parts in films

or adverts or modeling and many times

when I was out other stage schools would

be there as well other children

really the same mold so if the they were

looking for a blonde with blue eyes

there would be lots of blondes with blue

eyes

and then eventually when I was

1415 I used to go almost every week to

top of the Pops to dance there

Claire I first met when I was on an

audition

for an advert along with many other

children

I can't remember if I got it or if

Claire got it or who got it too many

years have passed for me to remember

that very first audition and then I

subsequently saw her a few times

again after auditions and then we both

got this audition and we did knitting

patterns and on the day of the

photographic session we were working

together and spent the day together and

became friendly and after that when I

used to see her on auditions we'd always

a chin wag with each other and we liked

each other and so we weren't Rivals we

didn't feel we were Rivals I was hoping

if I didn't get it then Claire would you

know and then eventually I met her at

top of the pops she was a good dancer

and she was very beautiful that's one of

the

things that stood out about Claire's

very pretty girl

um and she was funny

she also had quite a serious side

she kept a diary

and she wrote down or any of her

experiences even at auditions I would

often see her writing

I don't know what she put always in the

diary but I figured it was what was

happening to her at that given time but

she was fun to be with yeah nice a nice

girl if we'd lived near her we would

have most probably been even closer

friends

she told me she'd been adopted

and that she did have another name

um

so

those are little things that one shares

with a friend

so it was um big in its age of the pops

which it was for another 15 years after

we went there

um as for thinking it was a show to make

us famous no I I never went there on

that I went there most probably in my

mind to be a dancer

and also it's like being in a

discotheque really when you're only 15.

um you know you're not allowed into

disco text so it was really almost the

next best thing you know

but it wasn't there because there was

famous people there because throughout

my time as a young actress I'd met many

famous people so I was not

in awe of them and I don't think Claire

would have been either in fact most

probably lots of my friends who came

with me to top of the pops it was just

some social fun after school

we just had to give our names and you

got taken through to the top of the pops

area

um obviously we're not going to dance in

our school uniform so we were allocated

an area to change

um some youngsters and certainly older

people would arrive already in their Day

evening wear dance thing but us as

children we arrived in uniform

and so we changed into hot pants or mini

skirts or mini dresses

high heels

some makeup on and because we were in a

way professional

dancers we were often put in the front

near the DJs or where the groups would

be singing so there was a lot of older

people there as well as in 1780 1920

dancing but we were sort of young school

kids of 14 15 and maybe 16 I have

we've always made to feel quite special

some girls were invited back to the

dressing rooms

I only went there once to a dressing

room and I can't remember which DJ's

dressing room it was but there was a few

uh

people in the guest room at the time

drinking

slightly

what I might consider inappropriate

behavior with with girls I only had

someone try it on with me once and I

sort of smacked their

their hand down and I made excuses to go

to the toilet and that was the only time

I ever went into a top of the pops

dressing room

I knew that what might be happening in

there isn't what I wanted to happen to

me

after the toddler pops we were invited

to go up to the bar and again names

would be left as you approach the bar so

you could go into the BBC bar where

there would be lots of executives

there would be actors from other uh

shows that are being or going on or

being filmed at top of the pops

um on at the BBC and um

you know we would be bought drinks

usually

champagne

and

I would only ever have a couple of

glasses because I still had to travel

home that evening and I certainly

wouldn't want my mother to um

see me drunk so a couple of glasses

there was there was one girl in

particular who was 16 and she was

promised

some shows on the Frankie Howard show

actually at the time and she um she

often went to the dressing room so what

she was propositioned

it may well have been to make her famous

and she was only Frankie

um

Frankie Howard show for a long time one

of his com comedy sketches she was often

in that

myself no

saw him quite a few times sometimes him

and another DJ would host top the pops

it wasn't always just a singular DJ

um

he was quite a touchy man

um

and he was certainly pick who he might

want to be near him he would certainly

say you know I'll have that girl come

over here and dance near him and things

like that so he always looked a bit

weird because of his color of his hair

at times he had half black and half

white hair he dressed in tracksuit

bottoms bit of a weirdo but you know he

was he was very famous and he was a

a charity fundraiser so he had you know

everyone knew him and he was most

probably the most famous of the DJs that

did top of the pops

I had an opinion that he was the dirty

old man

just by the touching he tended to do

around the

groups that were

him

um he wasn't an ideal man to stand next

to let's put it that way he was touchy

touchy and as I say the

um

the way that he was in his dressing room

with others that was sort of common

knowledge that he would be

um kissing touching

uh love biting one girl in particular

she often would show with Love Bites

around her neck and breast area

um so he was a bit of a dirty old man I

mean I never could really understand why

any of the young girls whether it be 15

16 or 17 would like Jimmy sample to put

his hands or mouth over you anyway I

can't imagine think worse really

he would actually

asked the floor managers

and they would come on the stage and

whisper in girl's ears to go back

to a dressing room and that could have

been not only Jimmy sample that would

have been other DJs as well at the time

well Claire was approached by a floral

manager one evening in fact she was

taken off stage

and disappeared even before top of the

pops was filmed and when she came back

for the filming of top of the pops she

told me that she was going for a drink

with one of the artists who was

appearing on top of Pops that evening

and she asked if she could stay at my

place

because her mother obviously would not

be very happy that she was 15 years of

age and

leaving top of the pops instead of going

Harem she was going for a drink with a

famous singer

and I said to her yeah you of course you

can stay

and after toddler pops

she phoned her mum and I spoke to Mrs

Calpine just to confirm that Claire

would come back to my place and then

she'll go on to school because she had a

school uniform with her obviously and

that's what I was expecting

that Claire would do that night

and then following that show I saw

Claire

go off there's a tunnel near the top of

the Pops that the artists use to go out

the back way and she was with this

famous singer and she disappeared down

the tunnel with him

um and I was waiting for her to come

back to my place by 10 or 11 o'clock and

she never turned up

and by the next morning she wasn't there

I just assumed she must have gone home

it wasn't for another couple of weeks

before I saw her again I found out what

had happened to her that evening

so I gave her that alibi not knowing I

was actually giving her an alibi because

I did think she'd come to my place

and it's only when she wasn't there

during the night I just thought I wonder

if she's gone home

when I saw her

she

um was very

Keen to tell me what had happened she

had been taken to South Kensington

to a hotel in South Kensington and had

gone into the bar with this singer

and they've had a drink

he then said he wanted to change out of

his outfit that he had worn at top the

pops and for her to come up to his suite

which she did

and from there she was given more

alcohol

dinner

and she ended up staying the night with

this famous singer and

from what she told me she had sex with

him

now I don't know if Claire had ever had

sex before

I don't know if she was a virgin

um but she had spent the night with him

and he sent her home in a taxi

um

or or to school I'm not sure the next

morning she put a uniform on and I think

went to school

well I think she had found

when she was turning

some DJs places

that she had got herself in a bit deep

I didn't really know how to get

how to get out of it

um and I told her then you know just

don't go there

but I think she's found that she was

already

on a spiral of being obliged to

meet these people

and then a few weeks on she was very

worried that I know she had missed her

period

and she was very worried that she might

be pregnant

meanwhile her mum had found her diary

when I spoke to her on the phone not I

didn't see her face to face but I spoke

to her on the phone and she was really

upset the mum now was taking matters

further

that they were going to she was going to

go to the BBC

and subsequently she went to the police

and I think Claire

was embarrassed

that things were coming out with what

she'd been doing I do think she had a

pregnancy fear at that time

and the next thing I knew she had

committed suicide

um and then it was in the news of the

world

the following week with the exploits of

this girl and her diary

very sad

Claire mcalpine's body was discovered by

her mother

lying on the floor besides an empty

bottle of sleeping pills and a red diary

she was only 15 years old

the diary revealed how she had been

sleeping with DJs she had met at top of

the pops

one had given her drugs

after the incident with the pop star I

only saw her for only to look at one

more time and then a couple of phone

calls

of chatting

but she was worried but she was I think

she was worried that it would all come

out

what was in her diary but I also think

she was quite worried that she might be

pregnant so that was maybe even more on

her mind if that had happened

she'd never had gone for the test but

she died

during that

that time that she was feeling very

vulnerable and also well her mother was

going to do

you know her mum had already gone to the

BBC I remember that I don't know if at

the time her mum went to the police at

the same time or if that was after her

death

not sure the Diaries contents

had shocked Claire's mother Vera

who had discovered it the month before

Claire had taken her own life

the news of the world reported on the

story quoting Vera as saying

some of the passages were so shocking

that I would rather not repeat them

but the police know what they said

Vera contacted both the BBC and the

police

when she contacted the BBC she demanded

to speak to someone in a senior position

only to be told that would be impossible

the BBC Shrugged off the whole matter

despite the fact that Claire had been a

regular participant on the show

they claimed to have spoken to the DJ in

question

who had denied the allegations

Case Closed you have a clear nor Vera

were contacted for the side of the story

she felt embarrassed that she had been

to people's homes and had been to this

hotel

I think it was more out of embarrassment

but

her school her friends would all be

aware that she was doing a little bit

more than just going and dancing on top

of the pop

it was my mother that saw me

next to Claire or just on on the paper

on the news of the world and my mother

marched up to my bedroom and demanded

what had I been doing at top of the pops

so I got into a big

squabble with my mother that and I was

buying them from going to top of popes

um

so I didn't see clear but we spoke and

um

and then as I say when it all came out

about her death and what subsequently

had been happening at top of the Pops

that you know eventually was told that

it was all fantasy in her mind that this

book this diary that she wrote this

these things in was all made up

I don't believe they were made up

um

and and it's a shame some other people

who didn't believe her I think her

mother believed her what was in the

diary hence why she wanted to

you know take your BBC say why are why

is it this happening to 14 15 year old

girls why are they going back to DJ's

houses why are they going to DJs

um dressing rooms and why they're going

to the BBC bar

the inquest into Claire's death

officials had branded her as a fantasist

her diary ended up at Scotland Yard we

will never be able to check its content

as conveniently it went missing

close half brother Mark claims that

Savile was one of the DJs named in the

diary former BBC DJ Tony Blackburn

denies of a meeting Claire

well it was with the Tony Blackburn

sacking

of him

saying that he had never met Claire or

didn't know of her

when I'm aware he certainly did meet her

so he was thanked from the BBC

and I just put a comment online

regarding that rightly so he should be

sacked

um

and then some journalists found that

comment and followed it up and then

the next thing I was approached with

with the original paper the news cutting

that I and Claire were in

showing us with Jimmy Savile on stage at

top of the pubs and this was in the news

the world obviously so I just made a

sort of sarki comment it's about sort of

time they've took

humor out with the BBC

which within a year he was back doing a

Saturday show and so they don't let them

go that far if you're in with the BBC I

think you've got a job there for Life by

the looks of it

well it's 50 years ago

and there will always be

a sad feeling to know that girl never

went on to a great life not whether she

would have been a dancer or an actress

but lost all the things that I gained as

in marriage family grandchildren and

also that really she was

deemed a liar a fantasist

and the perpetrators of not only Claire

have gone on to continue as in Jimmy

savile's case

for many years maybe if they're just

listened to what she had said or

believed her given her the chance one

obviously when her back was against the

wall no one was believing her you know

she committed suicide and obviously with

her mother on her case and as I say

rightly so

um it's a shame so

angry angry that she was overlooked

swept aside yes or more sad

but she couldn't have become the woman

she could have been

in May 2010 it was brought to the

attention of senior BBC executives

that Savile was Gravely sick

Nick von Barrett emailed George

entwessel to reveal that the BBC did not

have a ready-made obituary

the end of the email said

I'm not sure we would want one

I have a personal interest here

my first job in TV was on a Jimmy Savile

show

I know him well

and saw the complex and sometimes

conflicting nature of the man at first

hand

I'd feel very queasy about an obituary

I saw the real truth

so what was the real truth why didn't

Nick speak up

this is a typical example of someone in

an institution who may have seen

savile's crimes first hand

and simply turned a blind eye

how many other people saw Jimmy Savile

offend and chose to do nothing

he sexually abused people for five

decades

primarily in institutions

when he abused at hospitals it was

usually in public spaces

how many witnessed the abuse

how many fundraisers at charity events

or production staff on TV shows saw

crimes take place

that they just kept quiet about

senior BBC Executives were well aware of

the dark side of Savile

while he was still alive

I was going to Interpol in around

2011 probably to do a piece for BBC News

night on the

um images of child abuse images of what

Interpol were doing to try and identify

offenders and it was on the way either

back or there where my producer said to

me have you ever heard anything about

Savile being a pedophile I know it knows

he's a weirdo I said I wouldn't want any

wouldn't want to spend any time with the

bloke but now I've never heard that he

said well that's really interesting

because a police force either Surrey or

Sussex did investigate him for child

abuse and we're unsure what happened

with that or where it went and I said

that's really strange I said I've not

heard that I said it can't have happened

whilst I was in the force because I

would have known about it I said so it

must have happened after I left and I'm

surprised if it happened in Surrey

because I haven't heard about it I said

but I'll make some inquiries and and see

what I can find out what did you find

out well so I then made some requires

and established that actually sorry

police had investigated him I obviously

have got some very good contacts in

police forces and and especially within

Surrey because I was an ex-sary officer

and they told me yeah we did investigate

him uh the officer that told me

I was a very senior officer and he said

I can't remember what the outcome of it

was but suffice to say that we'd

investigate him and the matter didn't go

any further forward either went back and

told the producer this and this is where

it all then snowballs because he then

talks to his editor and his editor

basically said to him well that doesn't

look to me like it's a story so the

story they were after was incompetent by

police failed to do an investigation or

fail to follow it up

and he came back and said well the the

editor's not really that interested in

it it's not a story in terms of and I

said I think you're missing the point

the story is surely that he's been

interviewed in relation to child abuse

and that therefore there's an allegation

in relation to child sexual offenses

against such a status of an individual

but they didn't run with it and then I

remember talking to him and said to him

he said to me look it's dead we can't do

anything with it and I said well if

you're happy let me run with it I said

you know I'm on a different network

you're on BBC my relationship is with

ITV let me run with it and see what I do

it still needed a lot of work so those

people out there have said you know I

literally followed on with what the BBC

had that's absolutely not the case what

we had to do after that was really build

the story there were some elements in

place but probably nothing more than 10

in place we then had to build everything

else up and crucially and it was really

important is that the allegations that

the BBC we're looking at related to a

dungcraft which was a children's home in

Surrey earlier than that in the

metropolitan police area and we I was

very clear that I said you know we need

to find victims away from dunkroft and

quite simply it was is that it's very

easy for the public to be critical of

people who are in approved homes who are

in Social Services care what we needed

to do is get people away from that

environment where who are much more

likely wrongly but much more likely to

be believed in the first instance and

then we can build that up and bring in

the dumb Croft girls as well to show the

totality of what was taking place and it

was a it was a good Year's work what

were the biggest hoops

just getting on air I mean it was just

incredibly difficult getting people to

to believe you getting people to

to take that I mean this what we were

about to out

kind of the biggest status person in

British television

that they'd been and and that was

momentum so it was a huge thing for the

for ITV to do massive thing and there

was a lot of public anger towards it you

know even in the days leading up to the

programs broadcast I remember we did a

BBC Leeds did a phone him thanks for

watching our podcast is worth my sponsor

Shopify

I feel like I'm missing out because

everyone is starting a side hustle or

their own business these days and you

know what they're hearing a lot

that's the sound of another sale on

Shopify the all-in-one Commerce platform

to start run and grow your business

Shopify is the Commerce platform

revolutionizing millions of businesses

worldwide are you selling books or

events like us Shopify simplifies

selling online and in person so you can

successfully grow your business

Shopify covers all your sales channels

from a shopfront ready POS system to its

all-in-one e-commerce platform Shopify

even gets you selling across social

media marketplaces like Facebook

Instagram and Tick Tock full of the

industry leading tools ready to ignite

your growth Shopify gives you complete

control over your business and your

brand without learning new skills in

design or coding

and thanks to 24 7 help and with an

extensive Business course Library

Shopify is ready to support your success

every step of the way look there's so

many options out there to expand your

business these days and what's lovely

about Shopify is that no matter how big

you want to grow Shopify will be there

to empower you with the confidence and

control to take your business to the

next level

it's time to get serious about selling

and get Shopify today

this is possibility powered by Shopify

sign up for a one pound per month trial

period at

shopify.com.uk forward slash Sean

s-h-a-u-n or lowercase go to Shopify dot

Co dot UK slash Sean to take your

business to the next level today

shopify.com dot UK forward slash Sean

that's the word for my sponsor thanks

for watching Link in description back to

the podcast

and during that voting they were

criticizing me basically saying this guy

Mark William Summers who the hell does

he think he is Expo you know thinking

that he can expose this guy he's done so

much for charity this guy he's such a

good he's not here to defend himself and

uh and I remember listening to it and I

listened to it because I wanted to hear

if there was any one that phoned up and

said anything like he abused me and try

and get hold of them anyway nobody did I

got quite a lot of grief and I remember

they were trying to phone me all morning

we come on when he come home and I said

to my agent I'm not going on at all I

just why would I go on to to listen to

that

um and and then obviously the the

program goes out or so the news the

program goes out on the Thursday but on

the Sunday the Articles start and it was

quite interesting how the media shifted

so you could see from the Sunday to the

Tuesday by Tuesday the media were all on

my side they'd started to find victims

themselves they were believing the story

and and it then became a very much a a

momentum I mean the program went out and

I withdrew myself from the media for two

weeks and the reason I did that is

because I didn't want the story to be

about me it was never about me it was

about the victims I was the vehicle for

the story I was the person that that did

the investigation and made it happen but

it wasn't me you know whenever anybody

is

prosecuted you know when um the West

were caught you know it wasn't about the

scene investigating officer it was about

the catching of of him and that's what I

wanted Savile to be about

the BBC had the chance to expose Savile

long before ITV went ahead and did so

with the exposure documentary

less than three weeks after Seville died

a journalist from the BBC News Night

Team began working on a script

it read

when Jimmy Savile died in October Prince

Charles led the tribute to a National

Treasure

but there was a darker side to the star

of Jim will fix it

newsnite has learned that he was

investigated by police for sexual

assaults on minors

but the crown prosecution service

decided that he was too old and infirmed

to face trial

now some of the girls

who say they were assaulted by him when

they were 13 14 and 15 have talked to

newsnite

they say Savile was an evil man who

should rot in hell and that his charity

work gave him cover to get young girls

they even claim some of his abuse took

place after BBC recordings

and involved other celebrity pedophiles

who appeared on several shows such as

Gary Glitter

so the story but type behind the making

of the program was that essentially we

got to a position where the program's

ready to go and on this Saturday it's on

the Friday we'd agreed a process in

terms of giving some information to the

newspapers

so what the ITV publicity desk said

let's give it to the mail on Sunday as

an exclusive and then we'll give the

extra bits to some of the other

newspapers and I have a very good

relationship with the Sunday Mirror so I

said well I'd like to give some to the

Sunday Mirror because they're a very

good paper and I know the editor very

well and they said okay well why don't

you do a personal interview for the mail

on Sunday and we'll give everything else

to the Sunday Mirror and so I said okay

it's fine I remember on Saturday I got a

phone call from I was at my son's

football match and I got a phone call

from the reporter from the mail on

Sunday and they said we're just

finalizing this report for tomorrow can

you just tell me a little bit more so I

told them and they said well isn't there

any more and I went no there isn't

that's the story I said well you want

more and it went well it's not really

big enough and it's not this and I went

right so I thought okay and so Sunday

comes and the Sunday Mirror and the

Sunday Sunday people run the Savile

story on the front page the mail on

Sunday runs it on page five or something

like that that

and and I never forget that because I

think that's a really significant moment

in terms of of not understanding the

gravity of the story that story then ran

on the front pages for a consecutive 41

days

the Jimmy Savile story so that tells you

how massive this was not just in terms

of of the UK but internationally and

worldwide and the the aspects in terms

of of the BBC then became a big story

because of course when we were making

the program we wrote as we would do to a

right to reply we wrote to the director

General

at the time and said can we have an

interview in relation to the allegations

we've got and the information we've got

and the doctor general refused to give

us an interview and said no so and

actually furthermore went on and said we

basically we don't know anything about

this and just dismissed it out of hand

now that was their first massive failing

because what they should have done and

this is a massive learn for any

organization that's facing these

problems is they should have said listen

you know this not on my watch it's

happened a long time ago we take these

allegations really seriously we will now

launch an investigation to find out

what's gone on that's what they should

have said but they didn't they buried

their head they came up with a very

arrogant attitude and actually then that

manifests itself and just became worse

because what you ended up with was the

BBC then having to almost Go full circle

and and then kind of some kind of

acceptance to a level but the the

problem with the BBC is that it's level

it has levels of middle management and

high management and and often the people

with the information are the troops on

the ground all right and so and it

applies to all organizations but but the

BBC is particularly large so you have

the the troops I would call them on the

ground these are the people that have

the information know what's going on and

are able to tell you as a as the boss

what you should know

but what happened is that the Senior

Management and the middle management

failed to engage with the troops on the

ground so they were dealing with what

they wanted to deal with and what they

thought that they knew without knowing

the information and therefore as a

result of that their arrogance was that

they came out and gave certain

information which of course was wrong

and not true so that's where it failed I

think if you look back on the Savile

investigation if you worked in risk

management and crisis communication that

is the example of how not to do it

is there a scramble to protect the

mothership when something like this

happens there always is you know look at

baby Peter you know the the the the

chief um head of children's services

came out and said we've done nothing

wrong you know this is the biggest

problem with organizations is that when

you get something wrong hold your hand

up we failed we need to do it better we

will properly investigate what's going

on and we'll find out and we'll get to

the bottom of this when you come out

with the arrogance and say actually do

you know what we didn't do anything

wrong it's it it it will fall back on

you you will end up in time

wishing you'd never said that and that's

that's shown and repeated itself over

and over and over again and the BBC

exactly the same you know as a result of

my investigation and my program and the

impact of what it caused the director

General resigned you know I think as far

as as moments in time you know my

program was a massive moment in time but

there are two other moments which I

think are probably the biggest moments

in time which is one the director

General is resigning and Jimmy savile's

headstone being removed you know those

two moments for me I remember where I

was on both occasions one occasion I was

on the tube and the other occasion I was

coming back from an interview on the

train I remember them saying the

director generals resigned and it was

like this is just incredible and

actually he didn't need to resign if

he'd have taken the proper advice and he

had dealt with it properly he wasn't

imposed when all this went on but what

he was able to do is to deal with it and

give some kind of reassurance that the

BBC were taking this seriously

that didn't come across

why was the show pulled

the news 19 could have broken the Savile

story but they didn't

they had several testimonies

they had found clear and compelling

evidence that Savile was a pedophile

the news night journalists had a duty to

report the story

and they wanted to

Liz McKean and Marion Jones wanted to

run the story

but the higher ups didn't

some say they felt it would ruin their

plans for Shane Rich's Jim will fix it

tribute show planned for Christmas that

year

instead the BBC turned another Blind Eye

to savile's offending

and axed the news night investigation

was it to save their reputation

was it to save the Shane Richie

Christmas special

the official line from the BBC is that

News 9 editors felt there wasn't a

strong enough story

the CPS had decided to prosecute so

there was no story

Liz McKean the journalist working on the

newsnite report was furious with the

decisions uphold the program

the BBC immediately began lying

suggesting the story was about the CPS

and we'd not studied up and not about

the thing it was about

it was obvious that it would eventually

come out for no reason then others would

come forward we knew

that Mark Williams Thomas was going to

take it elsewhere with our blessing

because this was a story that needed to

be told

Nick Cohen interviewed Liz McKean for

the observer in 2015

there is a small group of powerful

people at the BBC who think it would

have been better if the truth about

Savile had never come out

and they aimed to punish the reporters

who revealed it

when the Savile story broke the BBC

tried to smear my reputation

they said they had banned the film

because Marion and I had produced shoddy

journalism

I stayed to fight them but I knew they

would make me leave in the end

McKean quit the BBC

Marion Jones was sacked

like West Yorkshire police the BBC held

their own inquiry into their conduct

regarding Savile

unsurprisingly no one has ever been held

to account for failing to report

savile's crimes

Savile was a danger to young people both

girls and boys

opportunistic and Shameless

I have identified 72 BBC victims of

Savile

of whom 34 were under the age of 16.

his youngest victim was aged eight

his abuse included eight cases of rape

the youngest victim being only 10 years

old there are still people in the BBC

there's still people in in television

worldwide and in the media who hate me

for what I've done who dislike me

because I've exposed Jimmy Savile and

subsequently exposed Max Clifford Rolf

Harris and other people you know I can't

that's their inability to deal with

things that's their failings all I can

do is hold myself true to what I believe

I've done and what I believe was the

right thing and I know that exposing

Savile not only had a huge impact on me

physically and mentally because it was a

massive thing to do but it was the right

thing to do and I know that I have saved

hundreds if not thousands of people from

either continued trauma or being abused

there was a culture of not complaining

or of raising concerns

BBC staff felt and was sometimes told

that it was not in their best interests

to pursue a complaint

loyalty to and pride in a program could

hinder the sharing of concerns

there was a reluctance to rock the boat

but this report does some of the details

are shocking one victim was told keep

your mouth shut he's a VIP that even

with plenty of material out in the

public eye which caused doubt over Jimmy

savile's character BBC bosses didn't

think to remove him from his position of

unfettered access to vulnerable young

people

in 2016 Tony Blackburn former DJ at the

BBC was fired due to evidence he'd given

at the inquiry into allegations of

sexual abuse

the former DJ was sacked due to

inconsistencies he had given in the

inquiry

I don't know if you remember an

interview years ago with John Lyden

oh Johnny Rotten yeah Johnny Rotten he

gave an interview didn't run about 1978

it was banned from the BBC because he

outed Jimmy Savile they won't put him on

top of the pups exactly

now if Johnny Rotten knows

I mean it's an intelligent man and we

don't get me wrong but if Johnny Rotten

knows and spilling the pains

you know if David likes spilling the

beans

that tells you something

you know she's

there's a major cover-ups going from the

royal family right away down to the CPS

they hide it

[Music]

we're the taxpayers where the license

payers

and for years we've been conned and

snowed by the BBC

we have sexual cover-ups from top to

bottom

how disgusting is that and the BBC knew

about it and they condoned it

and not one person Sean has been held

responsible in fact they've been

promoted they're given pensions

the BBC needs to get its ass into gear

so how complicit with the BBC in

enabling him

right I'm gonna be totally honest here

I've got stacks and notes which I'm I'm

always making notes from indoors you

know I've got my purple pen out and I'm

forever writing and

it was in 1999 that a guy called Sir

Roger Jones

decided that Jimmy Savile shall not have

entrance to the BBC ever again

he was questioned on um a program by

Mark Williams Thomas the ex-detective

yeah we've got him on this documentary

yeah

um

and Mark Williams Thomas arson question

did you know at the time

I think of a straight answer

but for him to turn around and in 1999

terminal say

no we don't want several in here

that tells you something straight away

then we go back to children in need the

reason I bring up children in need is

because someone in the BBC wanted seven

one children in need

and the highway she said no

we can't have them Uncharted children

and they never gave a reason

you know turn around and said no but you

can't have him

Ester Rance and said

and she quoted on a couple occasions

in a funny way we colluded with him

now when you have Mark Williams

on

he will tell you that

what's your funny way about we colluding

them why would you turn on and say in a

funny way

you know

it sounds like you did collude with me

you knew what was going on

a couple of years later she's starting

up childline

she said it's very painful and

distressing for who

for the people that are involved or

because you knew what was going on

we've made him into the Jimmy Savile

who was untouchable

now there's three quotes there that

Esther's come out with that tell me that

she know what was going on her husband

Desmond Wilcox he was a filmmaker at the

time but it was also in charge of the

BBC

her husband

the clothes are there

in a funny sort of way we're colluded

with them

touch it here and I finished up well

included with you

[Music]

it makes you sort of

for a quest to sell it you could be you

feel as though you're involved

yeah because I mean at the end of the

day I mean if you're young You're

vulnerable okay if you're a 14 year old

girl or 16 year old girl going to the

top of the pops and you're standing next

to the white head

um

uh face to the baby say who's who's

probably

if I get in with him you're not I mean

he's gonna make me a star you know I'm

gonna end up making a lot of money and

in reality you're gonna end up making

Shadow because all this guy wants you

for is a quick fling and a fiddle get

you out of the door and if you're shiny

think I'm gonna ruin your life he said

he's going to ruin your I mean the

amount of times he said it to people I'm

gonna ruin your life

thank you

as several got older his Allure as a

celebrity DJ started to fade no longer

did groupies swarm around him as they

had done during his Manchester Mecca

dancehall days

so did Savile turn to hospital patience

finding them a captive audience with

plenty of vulnerable victims

40 years ago June Thornton was a patient

at Leeds General Infirmary

she says she saw the TV and Radio Star

molest a brain damaged girl a memory

that has haunted her Jimmy Savile come

to a young lady sat in a chair

unfortunately this lady I think had

brain damage because she just sat there

and

he

kissed her

and I thought he was a visitor coming to

see her

and

he started rubbing his hands down her

arms

and then I don't know of a nice way to

put it but

he molested her he helped himself and

she just sat there and couldn't do

anything about it

and I've lived with that now for 40

years

he volunteered at Leeds General

infirmary in stock Mandeville

he was also heavily involved in

Broadmoor and to a lesser degree at

rampton in Nottinghamshire

so we did some work around Broadmoor in

the second series second program we did

which was the Savile update and part of

that we interviewed Edwina Curry who

I've got to know really well now she's

very nice and she was

um to one of the ministers there and she

gave the responsibility to Savile to be

chair of this task force to go in and

look at Broadmoor and to see whether or

not it needed Improvement and Broadmoor

was that mentally ill people so yeah so

Broadmore is one of the top security

prisons it's a mental mental prison it's

a hospital in essence really it's a

hospital but the most dangerous are

there so the craze Peter Sutcliffe uh

yeah the most dangerous people in

society who are in essence untreatable

are in Broadmoor or one of the other

institutions around that so they give a

set of keys two

Savile in order to be on this task force

now what Edwina told Edwina Curry told

us is that she was aware that he was

using his power and influence around his

role there and that might be to the

degree that he would find out about

staff certain doing certain things and

then he would have power and control

over them so they wouldn't say anything

but we interviewed Witnesses victims

from there who'd been in the care system

in terms of being in in Broadmoor and

there's one lady that gave us an account

which was truly horrific so in those

days the female Ward would have about

bars kind of like old dormitories

private schools so the bars would be

alongside each other and she was taking

a bath one day and she remembers having

this bath and Savile just stood in the

background just wandering around between

the girls and she talks about one

occasion when he then took her into a

one of the rooms and indecently

assaulted her but Savile had free reign

around there I mean we interviewed Alan

franey who was the general manager there

at the time Who was appointed appointed

as a direct result of Savile so Savile

took this task force role and they

wanted a new general manager and franey

who had no experience in the mental

health system no experience experience

in the prison system he'd come from

hospital and was simply a friend of

saviles was a given this post and then

Savile take he comes into post and

several is actually already there I

remember interviewing franey and said to

him so what role did you give him and he

said well he already had a role at the

place and I said yeah well what role was

that he said assistant entertainment's

manager I said well what did that

involve he went well I'm not really sure

I said you're the general manager you're

the boss how did you not know what this

bloke was doing I said he had a set of

keys he said well yeah he only had a set

of keys he didn't have a set of keys to

bedrooms I said he had a set of keys to

every way might not have been the room

the bedrooms but he had a set of keys to

go wherever he wanted well I mean we

heard some horrific stories about what

he did there is no doubt that he prayed

on those individuals within the prison

set prison Network at Broadmoor he had a

free reign I mean there was staff that

called us who were there at the time who

hated him hated him with a Vengeance

because he effectively thought that he

was the boss he could come and go he

could do what he want he ignored things

I mean the keys for example you have to

hang the keys up at the end of every

shift he didn't he took the keys with

him you know protocol broken all the

time so he got away with that

working at these institutions had many

benefits for Savile

Not only would he have access to new

victims

the publicity would boost his Fame

and cast him in a favorable light

throwing people off the scent man what

work was he doing at Leeds General

Hospital

there was a guy called freiny

who was a good friend of Jimmy saviles

who was in charge of Leeds General

Hospital

and what finally done was some

Jimmy

you know got involved with franey and

and what eventually happened was that he

made his way to Leeds Hospital

put himself forward for volunteering as

a porter

now the first early recorded case

that Savile was involved in was in 1955.

just before he went to ladies General

Hospital

so he's in the um least General he's put

himself forward for his Port as well

he's then not only doing the port of

role he's doing the radio at the

hospital as well so he's getting himself

well known in two different areas there

he's making himself out to be something

you know he's trying he's spreading the

word but

and then it becomes tricky

you know I mean this is where the 1957

they say that some of the Leeds General

Hospital

stuff started

in 1977 a 12 year old girl went into

stock Mandeville hospitals over tonsils

removed

for some reason she was put on a

geriatric Ward separated from other

children

in a disclosure taken during operation

yew tree

the women described how she had become

bored

and wandered off the ward where she had

encounters several who was volunteering

as a porter

he began chatting to the girl and soon

led her off into an empty TV room where

he raped her

he left the girl in the TV room

she recalls being in shock

and unable to understand what had

happened

when she returned to the ward she

encountered a nurse and told her your

Porter just hurt me

the nurse asked were and the girl unsure

of what to say simply pointed to the

area of her vagina

the nurse responded

don't say anything I'll get in trouble

the woman recalled returning to her bed

confused

but she knew what had happened was wrong

she wrote down a message

to the doctor your Porter hurt me please

ring my dad

she added her address and telephone

number and signed the paper

she then posted the paper into a red

letterbox in a corridor

she believed the paper would go to the

doctors at the hospital

later that night Sal returned to the

girl's bed and sexually assaulted her

again

when the second attack ended

the girl said she witnessed several walk

over to the bed of an elderly patient

and then proceed to jump on top of her

lying face down

as he did the girl heard a nurse shout

out

you shouldn't be in here Jimmy

[Music]

the girl saw Savile get off the lady and

leave the ward

the next day she wrote another letter to

report the attacks

and again she posted it in the same

letterbox

years later

watching TV

the girl recognized her attacker

she couldn't understand why the porter

from the hospital was on TV

here is a word from today's sponsor aura

if you Google someone you can find out

all kinds of personal information about

them this information is accessible

because of data brokers who profit by

selling your information to robocallers

telemarketers spammers you can use my

link https dot dot

forward slash forward slash aura.com

Aura is a u r a forward slash Sean

Atwood

s-h-a-u-n-a-t-t wood to try two weeks

for free and see how many data Brokers

are sharing your info also linked in my

description box on this YouTube version

or scan the QR code on the screen

Aura also monitors your emails and

passwords to see if they were involved

in the data breach and exposed on the

dark web and gives you the

recommendations on what to do Aura has

almost every Internet safety tool you'll

ever need all inside one app

it's shocking that Savile attacked his

victims so brazenly

it's also disturbing that his behavior

was known to staff

how many Hospital workers witnessed

Jimmy Savile abusing patients

how many knew of his dark side

the fact that they said nothing and

turned a blind eye is Despicable

had total run of Broadmoor Hospital

he had a house on the um

just outside the walls

yeah design Caravan inside the walls

he could come and go if she's pleased

what went on in those small trees of

publicly only lives to the imagination

of people of age

horror stories

but then you've got Leeds General

Petworth Hospital

stunt Mandeville Hospital

where he had his own room

and he called it the kennel

he had the run of the whole Hospital

oh it's Jimmy you know what I mean

always oh I don't know about his Jimmy

just let him get on with it

after several was outed stock Mandeville

denied knowing about any allegations

about the DJ

there was

one 14 year old at Broadmoor that went

squealing or squirting rightfully so

the waters and nurses that was told to

as Jimmy Savile forget about it

there were eight cases that brought more

in total

there were 40 hospitals that this guy

managed to get into from children's

hospitals

the numerous

numerous accounts of how he could have

been caught

and to top it off his home his own

is embarrassed her

chairman uh the Mirror newspaper well we

know we did it

that is his own barrister

that was going to defend him in one case

because the mirror outed him a long time

before he died and they were told to

drop it because it's Jimmy Savile you

won't get any you know and he's

embarrassed to turn around and said

we can't touch him we know he did it but

we can't touch him

part of the reason Savile got away with

it was because he was such a master

manipulator

he was a fixer of things who groomed

whole institutions

worming his way in with staff from top

to bottom

from managers and chairmen to lowly

Porters

he helped people get top jobs and

promotions he bought staff presents and

allowed them to take holidays in his

Caravan

what was Edwina Curry's role in all this

oh

funny story me and Christopher had a

chat on the way up in the car and he met

a way to carry on a couple of occasions

and

chairman told me a few stories about her

um quite a loose

I won't use the words but

anyway Edwina Curry was in charge of

um Department of Health because bear in

mind Broadmoor did not have uh didn't

come apart a partly in its just till

2002. it was under the department of

Edwina Curry

in uh

in those years

had encouraged

the people at Baltimore the Savile

should be in charge

the A lady who's running help

running the country and she's now put a

lunatic inside in charge of an asylum

he's got a set of gold keys

he comes and goes and says please he has

a massive

place your Caravan in the ground

he gets his gold

plated Rolls Royce service by the

mechanics there not just that

he's Hustler mobile home it's called The

Hustler

serviced at Broadmoor all I never knows

is everyone and Edwina Curry

blindsided as well as Thatcher

blindsided by this

out alone and

psychopath

to run

a psychiatric hospital

ish

you could say you know it's another one

of his sweet shops

because that's the impression I get

several only use these as sweet shops

and

you've got to remember a hop from

Portmore then they'll pop up to Petworth

then they'll go over to strike manifil

then they go down to Bristol it pop up

to Liverpool or Manchester

there's 40 hospitals

that this man

have been known to tour around

and have his way

Savile got his way no matter what nobody

DARE stand in his way

he was sometimes called The Godfather

at one time he was probably the most

well-connected man in Britain

having useful Connections In Media

Health politics and Royal circles

people knew about his powerful

connections and were probably reminded

about this if they challenged him

if he could get someone hired to the top

job at Broadmoor how easy would it have

been to get someone sacked from a low

position

he was on the government task force to

restructure Broadmoor

he had the keys to the whole place he

bragged he ran the hospital he bragged

the police officers in 2008 that he

owned stock Mandeville Hospital

staff weren't on side with Jimmy

then they were worried of him and would

tolerate his behavior for fear of

reprisals

reports from Health institutions in the

wake of the Scandal accepted the

perceptions of his power and influence

were a powerful incentive to discourage

complaints

Sabal raised Millions for Stoke

Mandeville Hospital in buckinghamshire

but here too stories are emerging of

nurses telling children to pretend to be

asleep to avoid his attentions

the trust that runs Stoke Mandeville

today said it was shocked by the

allegations and was supporting the

police investigation

when the reports came in there were 60

allegations of abuse at Leeds General

Infirmary 11 at Stoke Mandeville and 10

at Broadmoor

the crimes at Health institutions took

place between 1962 and 2009.

were victims aged between five

to 75 years old

in Leeds there were three cases of rape

surprisingly most of the offenses

occurred in public places

simply unbelievable that all this abuse

went on on that scale over decades

a one saw a thing

what Freedom of Information Acts have

you tried to utilize to get information

on Savile and Broadmoor

well we already knew the answers Boris

and I but I thought well let's give

Broadmoor all the NHS a fair crack at

the whip we we knew what the answers

were

so I sent Broadmoor foi request

Now by law they should have responded to

say they got it within 12 days

a maximum

got about a month or so to come back and

say we can either help you we can't help

you or there will be a fee this is the

Foy cross this is this is British

government law

not a peep

I rare we did it again after two months

nothing

I rang the hospital nobody wouldn't

answer and eventually got hold of a

security guard who gave me a telephone

number

yes sir I think I've got somebody for

you I spoke to this woman

she said I'll pass that on to our legal

advisors thank you Christopher thank you

very much for contact we'll do

everything we can to help you nothing

eventually I on my third foi request I I

actually sent a copy to uh Matt Hancock

um the health secretary because this is

this was this this refusal to answer

these things it is under his watch

nothing but the next day

the NHS attorneys emailed me

oh well we're not part of the NHS as

such the hospital we are it is the NHS

and we we are NHS

and then I wrote back and said well

that's legal because

you know

are you telling me that

brought my hospital is not a public

institution and they're not responsible

for the free platform

and they come back with another little

and we already knew the answers

so you see the cover-up

constantly covering up

how many nurses are told the managers

about savile's behavior and we're told

to shut up

in the 1970s a nurse did in fact contact

Thames Valley police

to inform them of savile's inappropriate

behavior at stock Mandeville

I told the detective that staff at the

hospital were unhappy with Savile

the detective then took the complaint to

a senior officer who brushed it away

Jimmy was too high profile

[Music]

one victim had been assaulted recalled

trying to tell a group of nurses

about being molested by Savile

it's moments after the attack took place

as soon as she mentioned his name

the nurses laughed and walked away

Savile acted with impunity and he knew

it

but he was almost at will to walk ground

and touch sexually assault the females

within there with any repo without any

repercussions because no none of those

people would ever be believed because of

course they were there because they were

incarcerated so their voice was never

heard so Savile had total free reign and

there was one girl we interviewed and

the impact on her when she gave us her

account had changed her life you know

she changed her life she she gave one

account when she was quite young she

went there I think about

19 something like that and she gave us

an account when she was on her period

and she she didn't really know what she

was doing it was quite an early she was

in a very distressed State and Savile

just stood there watched her and then

later today indecently assaulted her and

he's and the way she gave us the account

was just like there was no sense of of

caring anyway at all he literally didn't

care

and in terms of access to more trees now

we do know that he spent a lot of time

or quite a bit of time particularly in

the hospital in Leeds I think it was

being a a porter

he would go in at weekends evenings and

he would take patients down to the

mortuary did that give him access to the

mortuary to victims yes it did there is

no evidence

actual evidence that exists other than

anecdotal evidence that he sexually

abused anybody that was dead so my focus

in terms of Savile is about evidence so

if you tell me something until such time

as I have that referenced by somebody

else or I can can validate it by

somebody else telling me either not

connected or because the times link up

and everything like that then what

you're telling me is information but

it's not intelligence it's not something

of evidential value so in terms of that

what I would say is that I saw nothing

that supported

the accounts and they were limited that

he had had sex with dead people and I'm

not quite sure why he would because he

spent so much time wanting to have sex

with people who were or sexual contact

with people who are alive I'm not quite

sure why I'd want to do it with anyone's

dead that's a very different type of

offending Behavior how rare are

necrophiliacs and what would have shaped

Savile into that kind of behavior would

it be a big bomb with something wrong

with his brain or would have been

factors that happened throughout his

life

I think Boris summed it all up uh in a

very matter-of-fact sort of way he's not

a professor he's you know he's a

Londoner and he he said it as it is and

with necrophilia uh basically

especially a pedophile

uh he's got a young child or a a woman a

young woman or a man in case of Dharma

is helpless

it's completely and and now we've got to

remember that

uh Savile was a control freak he was in

extreme narcissist he was a control seat

it's a sexual predator

and so if he saw a young girl was laying

on a mortuary slab or was a woman on a

mortuary slab

it's like again as Borah said a sweet

shop the mortuaries became sweet shops

for him

it was known to have access to corpses

it is known that he had

um

necrophilia you know I mean is he did

double on that this is the allegations

of the necrophilia going back to the

Leeds General Hospital period yeah

yeah it's not just leads there are many

other hospitals light and tight but at

least General seem to be around him and

Frankie had a very good partnership

which had come to like later on but

um

Franny is another influence in his life

what do you think made him have this

fetish for Corpses

I'm no expert yeah I could not show you

that I mean it's um

is it a power trip you know somebody's

dead they're on a slab you know I mean

it's I don't have questions if I could

describe it if

you you know if someone was

I'm here you're not I'm gonna take you

know I mean this I can't understand what

made him go through that

I wouldn't be able to work it out

it's beyond people's comprehension isn't

it because it's yeah bizarre

now I've interviewed over 30 of the

worst serial killers in the world

the very worst

cannibals necrophiliacs

the worst in prisons around the world

and

when we know that Jimmy Savile was going

into the mortuaries and hospitals

shutting the door

dimming the lights

pulling the corpse out of a cupboard

lying on a slab

and having sex with it

you're in the Realms of Jeffrey Dahmer

Douglas Clark the sunset slower I've

interviewed

who wanted to open up a mortar and have

sex

with the Dead with a girl that was at

one time dating Kenneth Bianchi the

Hillside Strangler you've got Dennis

Nielsen the London gay guy that was

killing and having sex with dead bodies

if you had a Stephen King horror movie

even he could not imagine

this long blonde-haired man gloating his

eyes coming out on stalks smoking a big

fat cigar sidling into a mortuary and

playing with dead children

in one Hospital Great Ormond Street a

dying child was touched inappropriately

[Music]

what do you think about Jimmy Savile

being given access to Broadmoor yeah

it's just insane absolutely blows my

mind because uh now or and in the recent

past in the last five ten years the

security of Broadmoor is really high so

every time I went in as a even the

regular members and staff even the

consultant psychiatrist who were there

every day they had to go through an

airport level of security to get in and

get out every time

um and there's really lengthy background

checks it's not too dissimilar to

working in a prison so you know once you

apply for your job and you get the job

there's another at least four or five

months of them doing security vetting so

that's what happens now for staff to get

into Broadmoor so taking that into

context somebody who's not even a staff

member to be given his own Keys he's a

celebrity I just I I can't understand it

cannot fathom

114 crimes were recorded across 28

police forces offenses occurred in 13

hospitals including a hospice here we

have a very special unique unit patient

in bed and for every figure a very

personal trauma for every figure someone

asking why

Caroline Moore was molested by Savile at

Stoke Mandeville Hospital when she was

13. why were they missed opportunities

why was the man not prosecuted

why did these people not do their job

properly

why when they were

even hints of

um maybes

that maybe Jimmy Savile was doing this

or maybe Jimmy Savile was doing that why

was this not looked into thoroughly

there and then clearly the obvious

conclusion is that people must have been

aware

[Music]

in 1994 two former dunkroft girls went

to the Sunday Mirror to give their

account of being assaulted by Savile in

the 70s the paper decided not to pursue

the story for fear of costly legal

action

14 years later former pupils from the

approved school gave testimonies that

led to the first exposure of savile's

dark side

one former dunkruff girl speaking in the

aftermath of savile's exposure explained

he did it in such a way that he could

always cover himself

you knew it was your word against his

and your word would never be believed he

manipulated situations

we were vulnerable and in need of love

and attention

so for the people watching that then

doncroft's school girls was a

uh it was in Surrey in this County

wasn't it and what what kind of girls

ended up there and what happened to The

Runaways

the chart because it ended up there will

be the ones that ended up in court with

orders you know we're taking away from

your parents you're not going to school

you know bunking your your shoplifting

you're doing whatever

so this was what I'll say is the

equivalent of a male approved School

they were placed it for a reason for

education

um Jimmy and his brother John

um

claimed that girls were sending Jimmy

letters fan letters this is saying so to

be some sort of rules that you use

so he wrote to the headmistress at the

time

said solo I'm getting letters from girls

would you like me to come and visit

that was easy

then he's in the situation of he's got a

sweet shop to play

this is I'll put it bluntly this is what

you know it is to Jimmy it's a sweet

shop I've got all this to play with

it wasn't until later

about 2011 that two of them actually

come forward

and claimed that he raped him

his brother did as well so there was

about seven or eight cases

but over time it was brushed under the

carpet because you bear in mind you've

got someone at an approved school that's

gone out and committed fifth

then you've got Jimmy who's uh public

figure spins records for a living

fontelli

who you're gonna believe

you're going to believe someone is in

the wrong

or you're going to believe Jimmy who's

who's butted up to be some kind of

demigod

in the 1970s several was a regular

visitor to Hort de la Garen in Jersey

six weeks ago police in Jersey started

the grimmest of work digging up the

Cellars in a children's home it was in

response to accounts by former residents

that they'd been locked up mistreated

and abused there Jersey's police admit

victims of sexual abuse at this former

Children's Home have been trying to get

authorities to listen to them for years

the lead investigator Lenny Harper says

the evidence of their suffering is

beyond doubt

there are allegations of Care Home kids

getting pimped out from that era

do you have any information about Savile

being a participant in that shadow

Savile was what I'll call the Kingpin he

was the person that would be sitting at

the top and

and I wanted a boy so let's go to

Seville he can supply

um a boy of whatever age or white girl

or whatever age

and it was known and it is known that

several

pimped out youngsters

um

he

um

I mean well you've got to take into

account as well as if you're a young

ladder or a young girl when you see

Jimmy Savile always famous here's my

roots are fine

okay I could promise you the world and

all the rest of it and all of a sudden

they're around the back butt wiping you

know what I mean

um

yeah he was prolific

so David I many years ago said that

Savile got away with his crimes and had

access to such powerful yeah people and

Royal people because he was a procurer

so that that ties into exactly what you

just said you think the David was

correct and that yeah I think David I

mean I'm I'm not gonna I'll be honest

I'm sorry I'm not a lover of David quite

like some things he said are right some

things are pretend to disagree with but

this time he spot on

or several unique case or were there

many sexual predators targeting the Kerr

homes back then

oh they were they were there was a whole

uh host of people who I mean that

you know I think there's several hundred

Predators have been actually uh jailed

and God knows how many others there were

so I mean it was it was it was

it was widespread

um

there are some links between some of

them but as I suggest I don't think it's

all about pedophile rings I think it's

more about kind of uh individuals

targeting these homes and then uh and

then maybe linking up sometimes

um uh with each other it was difficult

to find institutions that hadn't had

some sort of record of of uh abuse you

know that that the more you you you

found them all uh

uh there there were cases that that

would uh come I mean certainly the

police investigations that I listed my

book

um you know resulted in lots and lots of

prosecutions and lots of those were

successful of course sometimes you just

couldn't get the prosecutions uh to be

successful you didn't have enough

evidence or whatever but they did

prosecute a lot of people so in the

1970s if a child reported abuse

could you give us a step-by-step account

of what would happen next well that the

problem with that is who would they

report it to

um and who would be likely to to believe

them

and I do think that it would have been

very difficult for a 14 year old child

in a children's home to walk into a

police station and say

that you know so and so has abused me I

just think that uh

uh they would have said uh yes laddy

uh that's all very well but uh it's your

word against his and um you know be a

good lad and um uh go back home you know

I think it's interesting that that

almost whatever institution you name

this sort of stuff went on whether it's

Sports whether it's uh you know various

other Leisure you know scouts or

whatever uh whether it's uh children's

homes uh whether it's kind of schools uh

you know boarding schools you know all

these institutions kind of have had

you know we could spend all day talking

about stories from all those

institutions

[Music]

so my general service story is this

he

used to come to children's homes and

give children's homes gifts yeah yeah

yeah

so so

it's 19 it's 19.

65

yeah yeah yeah yeah my mom's had a

breakdown we've gone into care

I didn't remember I only remember when I

got the the subject access report yeah

that it turned out to be wouldn't Vail

children's child Assessment Center

in 1980 in the 80s it was closed down as

part of operation k

operation care was a police operation

there was 29 arrests

about 13 people went to prison for

physical and sexual abuse on children a

year right that was in the 80s

I was dead in the 60s

the copper

that got my child files fast read them

first who's doing it historic because I

made an aesthetic allegation

he comes in he says Stephen I've read

your chart files

he goes under heroine

he said that how I want to read he said

to me you've got

two brothers and two sisters he says all

your eldest siblings wise

and the Earth

if I have a kid with a white baby he

looks white yeah with a white girl looks

wise that's my color my dad's full black

yeah right right so they look white

they went into foster homes

yeah me and my sister because of because

we were dog yeah right and it's it's

it's rivers of blood speech time and

um Enoch Powell time yeah yeah

they could they couldn't Foster us so

December said a Victorian hellhole

here right in the 60s he came yeah yeah

um he gave me the financing with the

yellow ladder and a bell on it yeah

right and he tried to fill me up yeah he

tried to free me up but

um I just whacked him automatically

whacked him in the face and a hard

plastic ladder caught him on his eye

which stopped him

now

I was moved from the home on the 23rd of

December which is the day before

Christmas Eve who gets moved this is the

questions that I I wanted to ask in the

course why does a kid get moved

when everywhere is closed down whenever

he was starting the Christmas break

you're right I got moved because of that

incident yeah it's nowhere in the

paperwork but I was there and he was

there a year right and the police

officer I've got the emails from the

police officer he said if he was alive

today with what you said and what we

know about him we charge him yeah yeah

we charge him that was enough for me

yeah right because

they're pivotal things pivotal things in

my childhood the change that changed me

from a decent kid yeah into a beast

you're right because I then had no trust

of adults he gave right I've been

getting whipped and Kate and Wyatt

you're right

and I liked myself

I I like dogs you get two dogs

yeah yeah and you beat some beats and

beat one dog in your eyes and you beat

him beat the other dog

two things happened with the dog every

time you go near the dog it lifts its

leg and starts pissing yeah yeah right

because it's terrified but every time

you come near it it tries to bite your

leg off yeah and then it ends up a

junkyard dog I ended up a junkyard dog

that's what that's what I ended up so

I know what's happened to me and I know

why I am the way I am I know I know

exactly what was done to me and why I'm

the way I am

it was only a bit later that uh a bit

later than after Jim will fix it in fact

you know that I and when I was a

journalist on The Independent Newspaper

and stuff that I I began to I I did kind

of hear rumors we all heard rumors I

mean all of us journalists heard rumors

about Jimmy said well that is kind of

slightly shocking but it is true that

you know we we were

there were a lot of suspicions about him

and about you know certain other people

uh that uh you know they were up to uh

no good

[Music]

Jimmy Savile win speech I'm in 1972 And

I remember being in the dormitories and

looking out and seeing these Sunshine

coaches were a link to Jimmy Savile now

the only way I can explain to you

about beach home to me Beacham was like

a sweet shop to a pedophile so Jimmy

Savile would have been at home

in his element

with children being able to do what he

could do

in terms of Jeffrey Banner bouncing him

off the knee he's done that in so many

times in gym a fix where he had children

on his lap and stuff like that that

reminds me of the same of what Jeffrey

Banner did to me

and he was in Beacham in 1970 that's the

only record that I know at the same time

I left

I wasn't there when Jimmy Savile was

there but he was in Beach I mean 1972.

but it is with the benefit of hindsight

but when you watch particularly top of

the pops which is Big Pop show uh that

that went out once a week with all the

latest hits and stuff in years and years

how different presenters every week and

and Jimmy Savile would be there and you

know he always had his arm around some

young woman or some boy there's a video

on YouTube on top of the pop so he's got

his hand up a Girl Scout yeah number one

time still some of savile's behavior was

in the open Dame Janet says the lady in

distress here on the left later

complained about being groped on top of

the pops and her sexual assault wasn't

taken seriously it is extraordinary that

it was never properly challenged and and

there were certain people in the BBC who

did either know about it or had were the

source of complaints about him and and

didn't didn't do anything

but it does I think it demonstrates all

the same things that happen in the

children's homes that I wrote about that

that you know he was in a position of

power he um

certainly did things like visit

Children's Hospitals that were

deliberately kind of to give it not

because he was a nice bloke being a you

know I mean he worked as a as a as a

porter in in hospitals deliberately

which gave him lots of access to

patients on their own picking up their

old Cups of Tea and stuff and and it was

a perfect kind of design I mean it was

absolutely the same as you know a care

home worker getting getting a job in a

children's home uh to have access to

kids it was it was all kind of a

completely uh deliberate the youngest

child abused by Savile was eight

offenses occurred in 14 different

schools he would access schools through

the vehicle of the Jim will fix it

program and it's that Cult of celebrity

that he exploited to get himself into

the positions children's letters that's

how we got into these schools yes but

that's what the victims had been telling

us there was just not a culture of kids

being being believed in a way that is

completely different 50 years on and and

I can't emphasize that uh enough that

that nowadays we would just you know the

kid would much more likely be listened

to not always not kind of 100

uh uh you know sometimes not reflecting

that seriously to what goes on and so on

but by and large uh it would be a

different story

[Music]

in 1963 two boys aged 11 and 14 appeared

in Salford Juvenile Court

they pled guilty to stealing a watch

from savile's flat

the 11 year old was fined and the older

boy was given two years probation

nobody knows whether they broke into the

flats or had been invited by its owner

after several was exposed a joint report

by the Met police and the nspcc

recorded that up to a dozen people had

made allegations of sexual assault by

the pedophile during the early 60s

wanted being a 10 year old boy who'd

spotted Savile outside a hotel

and had asked for an autograph

he had been raped

another report was of a male victim from

Cheshire

would tried to report being raped by

Savile in 63.

at the police station he was told to

forget it and to move on

is there a threshold

of an amount of victims and matching

details that the police need

to prosecute

similar answer is no but of course the

stronger the evidence the greater the

weight of the prosecution and the

likelihood of a successful conviction

crime prosecution service has to go

through certain elements in terms of of

being an acceptable lever to bring a

charge and one of those of course is

that they have a reasonable likelihood

of a successful prosecution so the

stronger the evidence the better and in

terms of victims so what you want to do

in terms of victims is you want to get

some similarity between their accounts

in other words they're both settle

they're all saying that this is how they

groomed me this is what they did to me

this is what they said to me this is how

they behaved you also want to get some

similarity between the manner in which

that they were communicated with they

were contacted with perhaps the

locations they've been to what's really

important is to also get some

Independence between victims so that

they don't all know each other they

haven't communicated with each other

there's no no um suggestion that there's

a collusion between what they're saying

and of course the more victims you can

possibly get so when we investigated

Savile we started from a point of one

victim we then got to five victims and I

remember saying to the network when that

when we showed them five victims they

said well keep going and I said to I

said to the lawyer for how long how how

many victims do you want before we are

in a position to do this story and he

came back and said that's a very

interesting question I don't know how

much the channel wants and I said well

listen you know it's I've only got an

hour I can tell us tell a story and

that's my program is an hour

we can't do them Justice if we have any

more than five victims and what I'm not

going to do is go and get more victims

that I can't tell their story for

because that's a massive impact you know

I take great care in the people that I

work with and when I do go and speak to

people I want to interview them what you

don't want to do is bring all this

trauma up and then not deal with it

so so there was a there's a real

responsibility we have as program makers

and so when we got those five victims I

remember there was a concern whether

they wanted they thought that was enough

but they didn't come back and said

actually do you know what that is enough

and the the the the similarities between

the manner of the offending Behavior the

similarities between the way that he

conducted himself with them and the

types of offenses were so common there

was a Common Thread through his

offending behavior that

he It could only be him as being

responsible

Savile clearly cultivated close

relationships with cops throughout his

life

from his days as a DJ in Manchester and

London right through to his Friday

morning Club socials

which continued until his death

did the officers in Manchester in the

early days enjoy the company of his

groupies

it wasn't uncommon for the police to be

entertained by Savile that is flat in

Salford

if he applied them with teenagers what

would they do for him in return

so in total you have so so after our

program we had 440 450 people came

forward to make allegations and that

resulted in 214 crimes recorded and

those crimes are in other words people

have come forward and said we were raped

we were touched by him so that resulted

in 214 separate crimes and what they

established is that that was between a

period of 1955 and 2009 so that's a

shocking period of time and they

established that there were seven

separate occasions

where or seven separate victims where

the police had information which could

have resulted potentially in an

investigation and I'll take you through

them so the first one is 1964. so there

is a piece of intelligence that sits in

the metropolitan police files where

doncroft girls were going to a flat in

the metropolitan police area and they

were associating with a convicted sex

offender and Savile was connected at

that address right so as a result of

that that intelligence went into the

police system in 1964 but nothing

happened with it so if you take it in

its simplistic form the very first time

that people knew that Jimmy Savile was

connected to the sexual abuse of

children was 1964.

and then there was an anonymous letter

in 1995. now this Anonymous letter is

absolutely crucial and if you it's worth

reading the anonymous letter if you

haven't already done it it sits in with

the hmic

um report that letter was written by an

anonymous anonymous person who clearly

knew both Savile and one of his victims

and what that person said is that this

individual is incredibly powerful he

will attack anybody who has a go at him

he has the influence and the power of

politicians and the royalty behind him

and he has had to change his telephone

number because a child that he's been

abusing a young rent boy is the phrase

that they used to use in those days but

are basically a child who he would have

been sexually abusing was trying to

blackmail him and he changed his number

it then went on to say from the the

writer of the letter is that you have

the powers at New Scotland Yard to

properly investigate this

I've done my bit I've told you about

what I know and it was quite detailed in

the letter it's now up to you that

letter

the police did nothing with there was

clearly information in that letter which

could have been followed up none more so

than simply establishing whether or not

there was a criminal offenses against

Savile in terms of allegations being

made but nothing was done about that

that letters simply went nowhere

um

and then there was in 1963

a report so this so those are formal

reports that sit within the documents

Then There are a separate report that

have been found through intelligence

documents and that was in 1963 a man

goes into a Cheshire police station to

make a report of rape naming Savile

the Cheshire police officer tells him to

go home

and move on forget about it astonishing

so you have a victim of sex abuse goes

to police station and gets told to go

home and forget about it that was a sign

of the times that's what happened in

those 1960s 70 periods of time

um in ninth again in 1963 a

man and a woman who'd been to one of the

Productions of I think it top of the

pops or something he the girl he goes to

the police station at Vine Street police

station and Metropolitan Police area and

says my girlfriend was sexually abused

by Savile whilst at the studio and the

police officer says do you know how

serious it is to make allegations like

that you could get yourself arrested go

away

he leaves

and then 1980

there's a victim that comes forward to

the Metropolitan Police who says that

she was sexually abused by Savile in his

campervan now none of that goes anywhere

so you've got three separate allegations

two and 63 one in 80. you've got a

letter in 1960 sorry a letter in 1995

you've got the report intelligence

report in 1964. so this is all

pre-1990. it's up to 1980 but then the

most significant things happen in 2000

so in 2003

another person makes an allegation that

she was sexually abused Atop The pops

nothing happened in relation to that and

then the two significant ones which is

in 2007 and 2008 so in 2007 three

victims come forward to sorry place and

say they were sexually abused by Savile

and then in 2008 a single victim comes

forward and said they were abused by

Savile that led to the investigation

that of course we all know about now but

what it does very clearly tell you is

that prior to our story in 2012 which

obviously broke it their police were

fully aware of savile's offending

Behavior albeit in silos so not all that

information had been shared across

different police forces but had they

have made the necessary inquiries they

could have done it and what it does

highlight and it the the reports are

critical what it does highlight is the

incompetence of the 2007 Surrey police

investigation which was

totally incompetent

in the aftermath of the Savile scandal

hundreds of victims came forward to tell

their story

quite a few stated they had gone to the

police to report assaults but no action

was ever taken

two women claimed to have made

complaints about several to police in

London and merseyside

[Music]

in both cases no further action had been

taken

we will never know if the women were

exaggerating their claims

of the police neglected to pursue an

investigation into Savile

what about the allegations that the

police who attended his lunch is

Jimmy Savile had access to so many

teenage girls who were like kind of like

groupie category back then that he was

supplying these girls to the cops who

were attending his lunches

okay with like the disappear into rooms

in his house with these girls yeah I

mean if you read I mean Jimmy Savile had

a few nephews and niches and one of his

nephews

um turned up at Jimmy's house one day

and it was noticed

by him that there was other young boys

and girls there of a minor age and there

were people in higher power places that

were actually there at the time

um

he managed somehow to be ushered out

and is set on camera that Eno back in

the 50s and 60s that

he was a sexual predator

he was grooming young girls boys

far back then with the police

it's the same as the um

uh

have excuse me the the woman who was in

the 80s who had the

the whole house

um

in America no it was in the it was over

here she actually does a film about her

personal services was the name of the

film

and she had the police and everyone in

their backhand because the place you're

at it as well

so you don't know if there were officers

there that are at it

obviously because he was supplying

Money Talks

Jimmy's Big there's power

we can gain access to anything we want

it could be drugs it it just snowballs

it snowballs

we do know for a fact that one former

dunkrop pupil did go to the police in

2007.

she reported several's historic

offending to Surrey police who did

conduct an investigation

albeits a highly incompetent one

this investigation started a series of

events that would eventually lead to the

exposure of the celebrity sex offender

sorry please registered Savile as a

suspect

and this file was added to the police

computer system for dealing with serious

crimes

they also made contact with West

Yorkshire police where Savile was

resident

to check if there were any Intelligence

on him

the information was not passed on for

several months

a dozen ex students from dunkroft were

spoken to

things moved forward when a second

victim confirmed Saville's abuse

Surrey police were dealing with a tricky

situation

they knew he had expensive lawyers

they knew the backlash that would engulf

them if things went wrong

also the victims were aware of savile's

power and influence

and both women were reluctant to give

any evidence

they didn't realize it at the time but

by giving evidence

other victims would have found

the courage to come forward

we have seen this happen with similar

cases involving powerful people like

Harvey Weinstein

or Bill Cosby

multiple victims coming together would

have made a stronger case

in savile's case hundreds would have

come forward

it was a massive Mistake by Surrey

police not to realize that point

so you mentioned the Royal protection

and political protection that he had

when I read Princess Diana on Words of

the book she talks about when she's

having trouble with Charles Savills

brought in as like a marriage guidance

counselor how does someone who just was

a DJ from the north poor background

enter

the highest level of Royal circles

without some background check and you

know isn't this doesn't MI5 MI6 look at

these guys anyone who goes in there or

the Royal protection please look at

anyone who's going to go in there and

see their entire history and filter

people like this out so

um I mean there's lots of issues there

but in terms of why he ended up becoming

a bit of a confidant for Prince Charles

so the Duke of Edinburgh uh personally

asked Savile if he would give some

guidance to Prince Charles in relation

to his into his relationship with Lady

Diana now of course if you look at that

on the outside you might go okay that's

fair enough but then look about Jimmy

Savile Jimmy Savile had never had a

former formal relationship with anybody

he was single he was weird at best he

had had previous allegations made

against him now of course I'm not

suggesting and there's no evidence that

the Duke of Edinburgh knew anything

about that he just simply saw him as

this this Larger than Life character and

thought that he might be useful for

giving some guidance to Prince Charles

and of course when you are a royal and

particularly more so then than it is now

your circle of confidence is really

small you really don't know who to trust

so you you have a limited number of

people to whom you can share things with

and they obviously felt confident that

Savile was a safe Pair of Hands into in

order to tell and of course Savile kept

thousands of secrets so yes he was in

one sense a very safe Pair of Hands but

of course the secrets that he kept

primarily were for his own benefit and

also in relation to his own offending so

you can see why he got involved in that

why did MI5 why did the

um

monarchy not know about his offending

Behavior again what we don't know and

it's never been never been as any of the

reports is the totality of who knew what

within the government organizations and

particularly with the honors Etc who

knew what about Savile Savile had an

individual who was promoting him in

every element within Whitehall as far as

getting him to the honors area I mean he

was decorated in every element He was a

Papal Knight he was Sir ob-e he was the

lot I don't think there was anything

else he didn't have so he had backing

within Whitehall here backing within

government and I think as a result of

that and because of his status this was

a man who was elevated to a status of of

effective almost royalty royalty within

television anyway

um that made him Untouchable and I think

what it also had meant is that people

didn't ask questions they took it as a

given that he was okay without saying

but is he is this the right person that

we want

ultimately in 2009 the crown prosecution

service killed the investigation by

making the decision not to go ahead with

the case

a CPS lawyer recommended the police

should make contact with Savile to

inform him about the allegations

the senior officer on the case wrote to

Savile and received a phone call

from Jimmy himself

what's interesting is that Savile stated

that he had a West Yorkshire inspector

who usually deals with this sort of

thing

the inspector in question contacted

Surrey police shortly after

and told his counterpart that Savile was

a personal friend

he also revealed that several got so

many of these types of complaints

sorry police found these comments highly

unusual and requested information on any

allegations against several

as they wanted to build their own

intelligence picture

West Yorkshire police still didn't

forward anything

months passed and Surrey police had to

formally request to interview Savile

under caution

Arrangements were made to conduct the

interview at stock Mandeville

on 1st of October 2009

of course Savile dominated the interview

the two female officers from Surrey

police set the tone by asking if it was

okay to call Savile Jimmy

for the entire interview they deferred

to the famous pedophile who regaled the

officers with Tales of his fundraising

and television work

one of the officers put the three

allegations to Savile two relating to

dunkroft one to stoke Mandeville

Savile flatly denied each allegation as

they were read out

he was not pressed on any of his answers

and he turned the tables by warning of

the expensive lawyers he employed who

could take a case to the old bayley

if things were to go any further

revealingly he talked about his close

connections with West Yorkshire police

stating

we Showbiz people get accused of just

about everything

that's why I have up in Yorkshire a

collection of senior police persons who

come to see me socially

but I give them all my weirdo letters

and they take them back to the station

so that was that then sorry police had

allegations from three different women

saying that he had sexually assaulted

them in the past

Jimmy Savile said this was simply not

true

sorry please then wrote letters of the

three accusers to inform them of the

outcome of the case

operation ornament was closed

what's shocking is that nothing was

followed up

[Music]

the officers simply took savil's denial

and left it there

his word was more powerful

than the testimonies of three accusers

before operation utree Theresa May

Home Secretary at the time commissioned

the review by hmic to establish

which police forces received reports and

or allegations in respect of Jimmy

Savile

all 43 police forces in England and

Wales were involved in the 2013 report

records showed only five allegations of

sexual assault by Jimmy Savile between

1955 and 2009 had been recorded by

police forces

three forces had in fact investigated

Savile in his lifetime the Met

2003 sorry

2007-2009 Sussex 2008.

any Intelligence on travel from any

police force in the country

should have been given to West Yorkshire

police where Savile resided

yet they claim to know nothing about his

dark side

hmic concluded its report by stating

that

police officers in West Yorkshire may

have been inappropriately close to

Seville

this shows negligence on a grand scale

possibly worse

did certain individuals cover up for

Savile

now we'll never know

what we do know is that Intelligence on

server wasn't shared amongst police

forces

and if it was shared with West Yorkshire

police those records vanished

did someone high up in that Force

intercept reports and Intelligence on

behalf of Savile

possibly

West Yorkshire police cleared themselves

of any blame in the Hall of fur when

they investigated themselves in the wake

of the Scandal

Operation new green was merely an

exercise in damage limitation and blame

shifting

yet retired officers from and others who

spoke anonymously offered a different

picture

and apparently if a complaint came in

about him across the country it was

reported to his home jurisdiction yeah

and there was one cop in charge of

receiving those incoming complaints and

that was a cop that attended his weekly

lunches yeah yeah ish you couldn't you

could not make this up I mean it Jimmy

uh from the start he had everyone eating

out of his hand he was

literally I probably guarantee you shown

that if he was sitting in front of you

you could be taken in by him

you know you're talking about a man that

was knighted by the Pope that had a sure

KGB

um he ain't even had to State himself

being an honorary Admiral for the Navy

he had a Green Beret from the Royal

Marines this is the extent of this guy

um put himself out there you're not

going to argue with someone who's

who's that way you know I mean and there

was it's Money Talks I mean I do believe

that it was money that talks with that

that police officer because you've got

bear in mind them particular times

backhanders

we've all seen a TV programs we all know

the stories about the back end as to

people in the in the Met place if shall

we please show it in a Hampshire you

know you name it it's backhander so it

was that culture at the time it's money

and he was friends with Fat Joe he was

friends with Prince Charles and on and

on it went didn't it

one told newspapers that

there wasn't a Cuppa in Leeds who didn't

know Savile was a pervert

there was talk of Investigation into

Savile in the 80s no records were kept

again we'll never know the truth

what role did his weekly luncheon for

the police

play in him being able to get away with

more and more things

power

I mean

with with the place you you have got a

situation where they are got to be 100

percent

that they are going to get a conviction

with this guy

whether it's a CPS or the place they've

got to be 100 because if it goes to

court

and he's found not guilty

the people that's brought the charges

are going to look stupid their careers

are going to go down the pain

but this guy's got power and money

he's a money-making machine

he's Jimmy Savile he is the person who

are on the radio it can't be Jimmy he's

too innocent you know I mean

it's the same as well well Ferris it

couldn't be him he's too innocent

he pulled them all over the place his

eyes it pulled them all over politicians

always

big time I mean you you're talking

from 1950

to

uh sorry 1950s say to 1998.

Jimmy Savile

was a sexual predator

a letter dated 13th of July 1998 was

sent to the vice squad at Scotland Yard

he read

I Supply Here information which if

looked into by one of your officers

will yield a secret life not unlike that

of

name redacted

I cannot give you my name as I am too

closely involved and do not wish to be

in the Limelight

the letter describe savile's

homosexuality

spoke of him being involved with a rent

boy who had been given savile's number

in Leeds

the telephone number had been changed

after several had

received threatening calls from the rent

boy

who was going to the press and exposing

his pedophilia

if he did not give him more money

the letter continued

he thinks he is Untouchable because of

the people he mixes with

it concluded

when Jimmy Savile Falls and sooner or

later he will

a lot of well-known personalities

and past politicians will fall with him

the letter was forwarded to the Mets

organized crime pedophile unit as well

as West Yorkshire police

who of course later lost it

nothing was followed up

how easy would it have been to actually

check if Savile had in fact changed his

telephone number isn't blackmail worth

investigating

wasn't it worth digging deeper to find

out if in fact Savile was a practicing

pedophile

the officer who initially took the

anonymous letters spoken out

and revealed that he did in fact send a

copy to West Yorkshire police

he also revealed that it was common

knowledge among his colleagues that

Jimmy Savile was a pedophile

he believed that one of his colleagues

had been investigating Savile in 1989

the Jimmy Savile case is unique in so

many ways

[Music]

he was an odd and highly complex

character whom the masses loved

he was part of our culture synonymous

with radio one top of the pops and Jim

will fix it which I grew up on

we celebrated his celebrity

[Music]

we repeated his catchphrases like now

then now then

we laughed when comedians did

impressions of him

[Music]

from humble beginnings he reached the

highest levels of society

[Music]

he was brought in as a marriage guidance

counselor when Prince Charles and Diana

were having trouble

it's one thing to assume that

he conned Prince Charles into helping

him and Princess Diana to helping him

and on and on it goes

but why on Earth would the royal family

bring Jimmy Savile in as a marriage

guidance counselor

for Prince Star Princess Diane Charles

wouldn't you have to have security

clearance and Trust at the highest level

you know as well as right though Sean

I've worked in some secure places and my

background is check flowering and our

Main Chick part I mean mum and dad your

nan and Grande he goes back years upon

years and they will pull you to bits

left right and Center

now the horrific thing for me is is that

Jimmy Savile had his own room in

Clarence House

now Prince Charles and Lady Diana

trusted him as well as

um the queen

as well as

the other known Andrew who's uh

currently under investigation but he had

his own flat

and the power that he had

was he could shake

Prince Charles and Lady Diana's staff

which he has done

they trusted him to the extent that they

could sit down and have a conversation

about their marriage

he was seen as by them as well a demigod

no Jimmy can't do no wrong

you know I mean it's

it's horrific to think that that man was

around the children

or around the Future King

you know I mean there's there's no story

there that suggests anything went on but

if given a chance

do you think that there's a degree of

looking the other way because if Prince

Charles's Mentor was Lord mountbatten

yeah yeah who had a history of that

activity

do you think there's like an

acceptability Factor

whereby it's not that's a big deal to

them I mean if they've done the

background checks on him and they've

discovered this stuff I'm gonna say in

them days I mean what you what we've got

to understand is we're living in an age

now where nothing is acceptable

okay and it should never been acceptable

anyway but you're going back to a time

in the 70s when

you know somebody on top of the pots

will touch somebody's legal backside or

whatever have you seen the clip of

Savile doing that I've seen it many

times many a times I've seen you see

them on Jim will fix it when he got his

arms around the girls and you can see

where the ants are going and

but it

it you're talking about the 70s 60s

when women were

slightly different to what they are now

they wasn't expected

you know they expect you to keep quiet

um not just shovel you're talking about

as you rightly say Lord mountbatten

there's history on a royal family of

certain things going on you could go

back to Jack the Ripper

you know I was a partnerable family

involved in that

there's a lot of Secrets there hidden

that we'll never know about

Thatcher you know they will

they whether Prince Charles knew what

was going on I don't know I can't answer

that and I can't answer whether princess

do I don't know you know I mean they

just see

a mask

and what was hidden behind the marsh was

was quite horrific

do you think that the Royals should have

done more uh exercise more scrutiny of

his background rather than allow him to

access the highest level of their

circles

I can tell you this that if you try to

get into a category a prison today

you will have the most stringent

Security checks done

and then you still might not gain

right

you're telling me that Prince Charles

with the MI5 and MI6 in his own security

staff and owned security team and you've

got Princess Di and she's got her

Entourage and you've got the queen and

all this mixing about and not one single

one of them had the brains and the wits

to think let's do an in-tech Security

check on Mr Savo before we let him in

here let alone him with a hundred jars

of this royal family but no they didn't

and that comes back

about Batten and and it's it's almost as

if it's like

oh don't worry about it

that's the big question for British

Society how did he get away with it

six Decades of abuse and there are

numerous examples from across the

country and indeed within his own family

of where children

spoke out tried to tell people in

Authority about what happened but I

think we were all taken in you could say

he groomed a nation

but eventually

we learned about his dark side

he had fooled the entire nation

it took decades to realize how just a

prolific sex offender he had been

he preyed on everybody Dead or Alive

what do you mean by that

well he he liked visiting the morgue

is that yeah

um it's been reported on many occasions

he loved visiting the morgue what would

he do in the morgue

terrible things supposedly but um but he

did Terrible Things to poor there were

victims who

complained who'd been suffering in

hospitals he'd got cancer he'd abused

them he didn't care a Young Old Man

Woman

girl

he was he was unique in that sense

because he was

you know Jeffrey Epstein liked

young girls

Jimmy Savile just liked anything

the role he had cut out for himself in

life had given him ample opportunity to

repeat offend

over time he gained confidence

increasingly got away with it and became

more brazen

he acted with impunity

with powerful Connections in politics

royalty Health institutions and the

police he became untouchable

[Music]

so I think the biggest problem about

Savo is that Savile we know about

Samuel's offending we know about that

very well we know about his impact on

society

but what has been lost is those people

that could have stopped it from

happening or those people who had

knowledge about it so out of those 44

reviews not a single person has been

held to account everybody has managed to

to evade any level of real

responsibility

and I don't think that's right and I'm

not about blaming people

but when we make mistakes and when we

get things wrong I believe we have to be

accountable and particularly when we're

in positions of responsibility so if you

are a police officer and your job is to

investigate a crime

if you fail to do that properly then you

need to be held to account for that so

when Savile was interviewed in 2007 by

sorry place he was interviewed at Stoke

Mandeville Hospital of where he had a

bed not his house at his Stoke

Mandeville Hospital he interviewed he

did that interview on his terms when he

wanted it where he wanted it

Surrey police did not advise Stoke

Mandeville Hospital of allegations three

separate sexual abuse allegations

against him he was working at the

hospital he had an access hospital and

he had access to vulnerable people young

children at Stoke Mandeville yet he's

being investigated for his indeed sexual

assaults on three people and they didn't

bother telling State Mandeville total

failure he they didn't tell Thames

Valley police of whose Force area it was

didn't tell them that and the interview

itself provided Vital Information that

had the police officers bothered to

follow up on would have shown Savile to

be lying but they just simply took what

he told them as being true dismissed

everything else the allegations against

him and did no investigations so that

and he led the investigator he led the

interview

and in a way

I didn't have I don't have a problem

with him leading the interview per se

because I quite like that sometimes

because I like to give the interviewer

the the person being interviewed the

feeling that they're very comfortable

and lull them into a full sense of of

feeling that they can say what they want

because by and large when people feel

really comfortable they talk

rather than yeah rather than feeling

under pressure so my invest my

interviewing techniques for the very

first interview was always to allow you

to talk you know if if it was the other

way around I'd literally be probing you

on lots of things but I'd be letting you

talk loads if I was after stuff from you

and so that's fine I don't mind them

doing that but they would have been a

second interview where I'd have come

back to you and said well what about

this what about this they followed up on

none of that but those officers

weren't nothing happened to them you

know so and that's not just that the BBC

I mean the Dame Janet Smith did the

review for Jack for BBC I mean I

so I am responsible for expanding Jimmy

Savile I have more knowledge about Jimmy

Savile than probably anybody else

perhaps not so much now because lots of

other people have done work around it

but certainly at the time they launched

this this review and um and I see a

piece in the BBC News basically saying

we're looking for anybody that has

information about Jimmy Savon and I wait

and think oh well someone will contact

me from the inquiry nobody does so I

wrote to Dame Janet Smith's team and

said do you not want to interview me and

they came back and said well we don't

know if you've got anything relevant to

tell us

and I had I went well that's up to you

to decide isn't it I said but you won't

know unless you ask me anyway so they

did ask me to go along so I went along

sat there with Dame Janet Smith with her

lawyers I didn't like the female lawyer

she was very arrogant but Dame Janet

Smith and I said to her listen before we

start

I said I'm you are very you're eminent

that's absolutely fine but I'll tell you

the truth here I've investigated this

man for a long time I'm very good at

what I do I have a you know a very good

track record to sit there and say to me

you don't know what I've got you don't

think I've got anything to say without

even asking me what it is is your first

failing and secondly why would you not

go to the person that starts all this

off I said I've never done an

investigation where I haven't spoken to

as many people as possible to give me

that piece of information anyway I got

to the end of it and she did Apologize

she said look I'm sorry we got that

wrong

so fair play to her

Savile manipulated and cajoled the

environment himself

what we should not forget is that others

who are still alive were complicit in

enabling this monster

several may be dead but we have learned

that there are many people

who got away with enabling his behavior

remember the nurse who told the 12 year

old girl who'd been raped to remain

quiet

otherwise she might lose her job

remember Claire McAlpine and how the BBC

Senior Management

had refused to allow her mother

to speak to anybody about how her 15

year old daughter had been raped

remember the West Yorkshire Police

Inspector who'd received all of the

documents about Savile only to have them

mysteriously and conveniently disappear

not only did Savile get away with it but

all of his enablers have got away

scot-free unpunished

the people complicit in savile's

Behavior don't feel some guilt

then they must be Psychopaths

this man was very very odd

and he was excused because

and nobody

dared not excuse him you know Esther

Ransom why didn't she say anything you

know there are many people out there

who could have asked questions but

because of this man being some

National Treasure I mean there's even a

video of him on top of the pops on

YouTube right now where he just puts his

hand

a skirt of anybody yeah and she jumps so

you know why did the BBC protect this

predator

um because they created the monster and

they didn't want to destroy them if they

destroyed their their Cash Cow then it

would look very stupid on them

I mean I'm going to be honest with you

when you look at these inquiries and

I've seen 148 page report on board more

and the first 10 pages is this is

appendix value appendix speech like 10

pages of nothing

and then he gets down to the last 10

pages of

well at the time

um

we were lived in a different era

we could

get away with touching

someone at the backside

they actually turn around and basically

said

well it's acceptable

no one's ever been brought to account

for it which is why we pull and just

brush it under the carpet I mean me and

Christopher well Christopher

has put in

FY reports to Baltimore hospital

on every occasion they've fob this off

you know they've come back and said uh

uh NHS or the NHS

LHS no no we're two different we're the

NHS or NHS

so all they do is the reports do nothing

you know you know I'm if I can find a

report that's going to turn around and

tell me like but there's 40 hospitals

that he

went Mound each hospital has got 100 odd

page report

the BBC

funded by the likes of me you you

and yeah

I've just

yeah we'll just do a report keep on

Suite and hide it because that's how

they do

governments are saying they've hired it

they won't come forward and turn around

and declare they made a mistake

Baltimore won't come declared I made a

mistake BBC would definitely not but

they will expect you to pay their money

what do you do in the Caravan

anybody win the Amazon

[Applause]

now it's much more

transparent because of social media I

think the world has changed because

frankly

information spreads quicker

so

back then he

he could just go oh talk to my friend

Prince Charles or he could have gone

well talk to my friend Edwina Curry or

talk to my friend Margaret Thatcher or

he could have named talk to my friend

the policeman

and that's how he was able he he was a

he was a genius in some ways because

Evil Genius but that man had

a monstrous brain and he obviously had a

he just he probably didn't even care

what he was doing by the end he just

just wanted to do it for the sake of it

he power company it's just he was a

fairly evil man who was enabled by

people just looking the other way

214 crimes were recorded across 28

police forces offenses occurred in 13

hospitals including a hospice and

Justice serves itself in many forms

Justice is not just about a element of

punitive effect and of course in

savile's case he was dead by the time I

started investigating him so there was

no punitive element but Justice by being

believed for so many people simply being

heard and being believed in terms of

what you're saying has the most amazing

effect on people

we all know what is right and wrong you

know some of the stuff that came out

after Savile was people turning around

and saying yeah but in those days that

was okay I've seen that let's be very

clear is it wasn't okay it has always

been wrong to sexually touch somebody

without their consent or when they were

a child that hasn't changed that's been

there for years and years decades and

Decades of decades so anybody who comes

home and said it was okay Society didn't

used to do anything about it I didn't

make it right Society has now done

something about it and that's absolutely

right and so it should because those

people that were offended against didn't

have a voice they weren't able to be

listened to now we listen to them that's

absolutely right so when somebody gets

away with something somebody does

something wrong we have choices we all

have life choices and if you take the

wrong choice

then you take the consequences

and I think

that the problem with Savile

was everyone was terrified of him

because he used to threaten to sue

people and they were all the same all

the signs looked like they were there

didn't they I mean at Louis the ruined

if you were he almost had him on the

rails you know

um

and

uh

I think

it's a sign of the times wasn't it I

mean so many things

um that sort of went on over that time

period where people just seemed to turn

a blind eye

um are quite extraordinary I still

shiver

when I look at that footage of um Savile

with um

uh oh God you know the guy who was the

um leader of the pack

uh the other Peter Farley was um

you've seen that footage of them both on

top of the parts yeah I've not no is it

on YouTube yeah it just makes you shut

it but then you kind of I don't know do

we all expressly in our heads

will not want to believe that that kind

of thing

goes on you know it's it's you know

there's there's part I think there's

part of human nature that I mean I met

Jimmy Savile you've met him I met him

yeah what was that like well you know

he's like big into running and he used

to and I had a disabled brother and I

was pushing my brother around the

serpentine with my granny and we were

doing a sponsored run and up comes Jimmy

Savile

and I guess I would have been quite and

he's perfectly seemed perfectly nice and

I thought he was the best guy and he was

Jimmy Savile fixes it for everybody and

he seemed like this great guy and I was

just left with this great impression I'm

sure that most people if you weren't

being abused by Jimmy Savile had that

impression of him but it really took

um Mark Williams Thomas to to basically

forensically

go through the cases and find a pattern

of behavior

and it just goes to show because how

many victims he had and it you know it

took a documentary

to find it was only like five victims

that he produced to start with who the

patterns with behavior were so similar

that eventually but even then it was

only after he died

and I just wonder if he was still alive

you know whether that would have yet

come out because it it's you know the

the rules and regulations about putting

something like that on the Telly and

saying this guy is effectively you've

got to you've got to jump some real

hurdles to do that

but when you are a young person and

you're you're forming your understanding

of life because every child is a blank

canvas we learn from our environment we

learn from what's around us so if we're

seeing things that the sexualizing women

if we're seeing things which are showing

us that that's acceptable

you know if you're in an environment at

home where there's domestic abuse

it's the norm where sexuality is

something that's that's open needs

discussed or shown or whatever swearing

all of that lot it becomes the norm drug

taking becomes the norm and this is what

ends up happening of course is children

then follow that path into adulthood and

that early days of offending Behavior

bearing in mind offending now could be

anything from 10 to 11 up to the late

teens that is why that bracket of

offending behavior is so huge because

that's still the learning element once

you get to your 20s and 30s you start to

realize that's wrong but of course you

don't know because of the environment

that is why as a society and as parents

we have such a massive duty to make sure

that our children are brought up in the

right way and not exposed to things that

will influence their decision making

do you think that without your

documentary on several it wouldn't have

been as exposed as it was yeah you

played a key role I mean if if we hadn't

evicted Savile I

so had if Newsnight had been able to get

theirs off the ground

it I do not believe it would have would

have caused the Ricochet the impact that

ours did at all because they had a

completely different story so that's the

first thing and I think had we not have

got Savile off the ground then I don't

think we'd be where we are now now I

can't say that with certainly because

other things might have happened

somebody else might have happened but if

the impact of Savile I mean Savile led

to Max Clifford being arrested and

prosecuted Ralph Harris being arrested

and prosecuted uh the

um it's a knockout guy Stuart Hall being

arrested and prosecuted and not just

those people who are in the public eye

but hundreds hundreds of other people up

and down the country where victims came

forward and spoke about now often we

don't talk about those people because

they're not in the public eye but there

are Savile led to

thousands of people being saved hundreds

of offenders being arrested just in the

space of of of a one-hour program a 47

minute program with adverts so I think

it was a there was a piece written in

the guardian the following day saying

that you know this is a never had

television defined a moment anymore and

I think it's true I think if you look

back in terms of some of the coverage

and some of the stuff that's that's been

talked about I think that's 47 minutes

of television

has probably been

in the last 10 20 30 40 decades one of

the biggest changing moments and of

course there's been other important

moments of course there has but in terms

of changing attitudes

changing public opinion I don't think

there's been a program that's done and

I'm incredibly proud to be part of that

and and yeah it was hard work I mean I I

I've never really talked in detail of

how hard it was and some of the Hoops we

had to jump through to get it broadcast

but it was hard you know these these

people are going oh you know you you

made a program you put it out I tell you

what that making that program and

getting it to air

was the hardest thing that I've ever

done and will ever do I'm sure in the

rest of my life

Jimmy Savile couldn't have existed

now because there would have been some

person on the internet saying no no no

no no no

and eventually somebody would have to

listen

um I don't think he could have got away

with it in this era but back then he had

the police he had royalty he had

politicians he had

business people we had

BBC and everything

it's very likely that 400 of you will be

injured in your cars tomorrow you will

be within six miles of home and doing

less than 30 and it's going to happen to

a lot of you ladies you'll be shopping

collecting the kids going to the

laundrette for some of you the face

you'll start out with in the morning

won't be the same face you end up with

by the evening

it's it's horrific to think

the 50 odd years

that this man

had free wine

of the government

the NHS

the

BBC whoever respected in 1940 because

they were the voice of the British

people

and well respected by other people

that you managed to walk into every Walk

of Life

and destroy

thousands of people

life's is beyond me

I I could probably sit and talk

throughout about this man and

you know my special subjects are brought

more

than this but this guy right in the

chapter about Savile let's just opened

up probably the biggest can of worms

that I've come across

you know without uh immediate coverage

without uh the Readiness of some

newspapers to to go down that line

and importantly enough to report stories

that then kind of get other people

coming forward

uh and I worry about this because

uh

uh you know the resources for media

investigations are much less these days

um you know newspapers are are dying

they've been replaced by the internet uh

there are some investigative websites on

the internet but you know they're fairly

poorly resourced I think one big loss in

the UK and in the US is the sort of good

local newspaper which which keeps an eye

on things where the reporters go to the

local uh Council meetings and so on and

find out what's going on and they have

contacts and then all that's gone that's

just gone I mean the uh so uh one of the

important aspects of that is if you hear

of somebody uh or or some case of abuse

in some home somewhere that might then

other people read about it and then come

forward and so on and that's much less

likely to happen today so uh

you know the media is much diminished in

this regard and that the media is an

important part of the safeguarding of uh

the kids and and these institutions and

and unfortunately uh

um you know because of uh the the

internet because of newspaper sales

declining because of uh they no longer

have advertising in the newspapers and

so on

um we see much much less uh uh potential

for those stories to come to light the

report is called giving victims a voice

in fact they have shouted it's the

figures that reveal the depth of

depravity that Jimmy Savile stooped to

during his 54 years of abuse his

youngest victim was eight the oldest 47

they were abused in schools in hospitals

and in Television Studios yeah I welcome

programs like yours that keep this uh in

the public eye because it's all too easy

to think that this is this is just an

awful experience we should forget it's

all in the past and whatever it's not

and we have to stop it I I do think

there's less of it now because of in you

know the institutions the better able to

to withstand this but nevertheless we

have to be vigilant

the effect of Savile the effect of

exposing Savile has changed people's

lives and and I I don't think I'll do

anything I do a lot of things all the

time but I don't think I'll do anything

that will have such a massive impact you

know through my life as a police officer

through my life now as an investigative

reporter I help people I change people's

lives because I give them some uh some

justice some closure

but nothing to the degree that exposing

Jimmy Savile did that brought it the

Savile effect changed people's attitude

around the world for child abuse it

changed authorities positions it made a

massive difference and and I for that

you know I'm I'm incredibly proud

to have been involved with that I'm

incredibly lucky that I had that

opportunity and yeah there are I suppose

three people that made that happen which

was my producer Leslie Gardner my

assistant producer Rebecca Hogarth and

Alex Gardner who was my exact producer

without those three people by my side we

would never have got this broadcast

one could talk a long time about why you

believe in God but to encapsulate it I

believe in God because if nothing else

it's a good Gamble

if we went through a lot of thinking

that when we die we rot and that's it

gone finito uh that's all right but it's

much nicer to go through life

with a faith thinking that maybe when we

die we go on to even a better life than

this

who knows

[Music]

so just remember this

it wasn't the police that exposed Savile

it was a journalist

that's why the media is so important

especially the alternative media because

look at how mainstream covered this up

when the authorities fail to do their

job the media should hold them to

account

if we take one thing from this

documentary

and it's part of our mission statement

on this channel is that victims need to

be taken seriously and the voices must

be heard

the more we understand the nature of

abuse

the more we can put in place measures to

tackle the problem

we absolutely cannot allow another

psychopath

like Jimmy Savile to run wild spreading

his evil ever again

[Music]

thank you

foreign

[Music]

what is it about a tough guy that

fascinates us imagine I'm hearing that

I'm thinking I'm not going down today if

I go down today here I'm dead we're

bringing you the very best of our

interviews with Britain's hardest men

they made the mistake

of bringing

Billy Cubs iron bars and knives to a

gunfight no rules fights A bash Stephen

the devil French and my best friend wow

man

over two hours of terrifying Tales of

punch-ups stabbings that's what I'm

saying that well you you do people long

enough don't get enough rope chain

themselves attempted murders an

exceptional all-round hardness

this film is available through rent or

own on Amazon or Vimeo plus the first 30

customers to order this film

get a 30 discount on any Vimeo order

click the link below to see if you're

one of the lucky ones

this film will drop your jaw like a

punch from the Hard Men we talk to

so why not order your copy today

really

this podcast is sponsored by gadfly

press we are proud to announce the

publication of Britain's number one Art

Forger Max brandit the life of a cheeky

faker

and from the back cover blurb Max the

forger is an artist and gentleman whose

colorful lifestyle has spanned over 70

years

he has lived under the strict regime of

bernardo's children's homes being an

elephant Handler in the circus lived

rough busted his way from Brighton to

Bombay sold his fakes up and down the

country dined with dukes socialized with

celebrities associated with gangsters

served time in prison and donated tens

of thousands of Charity and through it

all he has never stopped smiling and

loving life and missing his mum quote

from the book Mr brandirt I do not see

you as a malicious criminal side of the

judge but why oh why do you continue to

use your god-given talent in this way

I just can't help myself your honor it's

like an addiction I grinned available

worldwide on Amazon Link in the

description box below this video thank

you for supporting our sponsor