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Is there a red light
that tells me it's recording?
2
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It's recording.
3
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What am I supposed to call him?
4
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Uh, let's call him...
5
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- Mark?
- Steve.
6
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- Steve?
- Or Mark.
7
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What's wrong with "Mark"?
Mark's easier. It's a four-letter word.
8
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I've started recording,
just so you know... to have the masks on.
9
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Okay.
10
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How's this?
11
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What sparked this?
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'Cause it's always kinda been there,
but...
13
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why the sudden, you know,
interest in focusing on Mark?
14
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I'm sure you've come back,
you know, to Houston and...
15
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heard stuff here and there.
16
00:01:08,541 --> 00:01:10,875
You've seen the stuff on Facebook.
Like, why now?
17
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He was a good guy.
I mean, you'd never think...
18
00:01:14,416 --> 00:01:18,958
whatever happened to him
or whatever he... did would be possible.
19
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A few months ago,
20
00:01:24,833 --> 00:01:26,583
I, along with several other people,
21
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ran across the Turkish border.
22
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I am now currently livingin the Islamic State.
23
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I saw, like,
Facebook posts that he was going...
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to join ISIS. And ever since then,
25
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I-- I just cut him off of Facebook
as well.
26
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When I found out
he was actually living there,
27
00:01:46,500 --> 00:01:48,916
the first stage of, you know,
is just denial.
28
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Like, "No way. It can't be true.
29
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It can't be one of the people
I grew up with."
30
00:01:53,041 --> 00:01:56,083
Uh, I think he just went
full throttle with that.
31
00:01:56,666 --> 00:01:59,041
The other rumor is
that he is an FBI informant.
32
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Because his conviction...
33
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was too strong.
34
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Especially in the Houston area,
there were a few converts who were...
35
00:02:07,375 --> 00:02:10,166
FBI informants.
Like, that has happened in the past.
36
00:02:10,458 --> 00:02:12,833
This is not just paranoia, right?
37
00:02:12,916 --> 00:02:14,125
This is, like, real.
38
00:02:14,458 --> 00:02:16,791
He was assigned a case,
to work this area,
39
00:02:16,875 --> 00:02:18,208
his group of friends...
40
00:02:18,875 --> 00:02:20,833
- and, uh, he flunked--
- Yeah, it sounds--
41
00:02:20,916 --> 00:02:23,166
it sounds more like that.
Yeah, it sounds more like that,
42
00:02:23,250 --> 00:02:25,166
but at the same time,
if that's true, then that sucks!
43
00:02:25,250 --> 00:02:26,666
'Cause we were his friends. Like--
44
00:02:26,750 --> 00:02:29,500
Maybe he never saw y'all as friends.
Maybe, since day one,
45
00:02:29,583 --> 00:02:32,458
you know, y'all-- y'all were a target.
Y'all were a target!
46
00:02:40,958 --> 00:02:42,875
- Moses.
- Did you see the toys?
47
00:02:44,333 --> 00:02:46,666
We'll just keep an eye
on 'em from behind you.
48
00:02:46,750 --> 00:02:48,125
- What?
- Keep moving back.
49
00:02:48,208 --> 00:02:49,041
Yeah.
50
00:02:49,125 --> 00:02:52,125
Even if he knew that this was
about him, I don't think he'd watch it.
51
00:02:53,333 --> 00:02:54,958
I just feel like he wouldn't watch it,
52
00:02:55,041 --> 00:02:57,416
'cause a lot of things don't phase him
if it's against him.
53
00:02:57,500 --> 00:02:59,333
- It's not like--
- Wouldn't matter to him.
54
00:02:59,416 --> 00:03:01,166
It's not like we have to wear
these masks
55
00:03:01,250 --> 00:03:03,208
because of something we did.
We have to wear these
56
00:03:03,291 --> 00:03:04,708
- because of what he did.
- Yeah.
57
00:03:04,791 --> 00:03:06,458
And that's important
for him to know.
58
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,541
Yeah, so if Mark saw this,
59
00:03:08,625 --> 00:03:11,416
he'd be like, "Look at these Muslims.
They're covering their faces,
60
00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:13,166
and they've done nothing wrong."
61
00:03:14,500 --> 00:03:16,333
I mean, yeah. I mean, that's the state
62
00:03:16,416 --> 00:03:17,916
- of a Muslim in this country.
- Yeah.
63
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,208
It's to be scared.
64
00:03:19,291 --> 00:03:22,041
It's not all scared. Also because
we're not-- We can't be selfish, right?
65
00:03:22,125 --> 00:03:23,791
- We have other people depending on us.
- Yeah.
66
00:03:23,875 --> 00:03:25,958
And for us,
being in this sensitive state,
67
00:03:26,125 --> 00:03:29,041
that's selfish, man.
That's very selfish,
68
00:03:29,125 --> 00:03:32,375
knowing that you could put your friends
at risk, especially preaching this stuff.
69
00:03:32,750 --> 00:03:35,916
The things that he sends out
and things he tries to get us to do
70
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,458
are so over-the-top
71
00:03:38,041 --> 00:03:40,791
that it almost seems
like he's purposely trying to bait us
72
00:03:40,875 --> 00:03:41,750
into something.
73
00:03:42,541 --> 00:03:45,666
And that's the only reason,
I imagine, why people would think
74
00:03:45,750 --> 00:03:49,666
that he's a spy,
because, uh, it just seems so... bad.
75
00:03:49,750 --> 00:03:52,000
Right? So cliché that...
76
00:03:52,750 --> 00:03:54,000
it's almost unbelievable.
77
00:03:59,083 --> 00:04:00,666
He was my best friend.
78
00:04:01,583 --> 00:04:03,291
When I met him in middle school,
79
00:04:03,375 --> 00:04:07,166
I don't remember him having many friends,
if any at all.
80
00:04:08,916 --> 00:04:10,958
Socially, in a-- in a group,
81
00:04:11,083 --> 00:04:12,583
I-- I saw that he was an outcast.
82
00:04:12,666 --> 00:04:14,750
He knew it, and I knew it,
and everybody knew.
83
00:04:14,875 --> 00:04:16,541
I remember, one time
we were playing volleyball,
84
00:04:16,625 --> 00:04:18,625
and somebody needed something,
and he was like,
85
00:04:18,708 --> 00:04:20,083
"Here.
I'm wearing an extra pair of jeans."
86
00:04:20,291 --> 00:04:23,375
He didn't have a belt to wear,
so instead, he wore two pairs of jeans.
87
00:04:23,458 --> 00:04:26,458
It's just the weirdest thing in the world,
but Mark did Mark.
88
00:04:31,083 --> 00:04:34,541
He kinda... He stood out, though.
He was the only black guy
89
00:04:34,750 --> 00:04:37,208
in a... a group of brown people.
90
00:04:43,166 --> 00:04:45,833
When we turned 18,
we decided to try the club scene.
91
00:04:46,750 --> 00:04:49,041
And that's always fun and interesting,
uh...
92
00:04:49,125 --> 00:04:51,291
'cause Mark doesn't drink
or talk to girls.
93
00:04:51,375 --> 00:04:53,791
So I don't really know what he was doing
in the clubs with me.
94
00:04:53,875 --> 00:04:55,791
But he basically went there
to take care of me.
95
00:04:55,875 --> 00:04:57,833
I would find ways to sneak drinks,
96
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,916
and he would watch my back while I did it.
97
00:05:01,208 --> 00:05:02,416
And then, uh...
98
00:05:03,125 --> 00:05:04,083
I would try to say,
99
00:05:04,166 --> 00:05:06,833
"Hey, let's-- let's go dance
with some girls," and, uh...
100
00:05:06,916 --> 00:05:08,750
he would say,
"You know, you go ahead and dance.
101
00:05:08,833 --> 00:05:11,208
I'll just-- I'll keep an eye on you
from back here."
102
00:05:11,291 --> 00:05:12,958
He wasn't-- He wasn't a judgmental person.
103
00:05:13,041 --> 00:05:15,541
He said, you know,
"You do you, and that's fine.
104
00:05:15,958 --> 00:05:18,708
You know, I-- I do me."
And we-- we still got along.
105
00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:30,875
Looking back,
all of his troubles were with him trying
106
00:05:30,958 --> 00:05:33,458
to find somebody who he belongs with.
107
00:05:34,291 --> 00:05:36,083
And growing up in Sugar Land,
108
00:05:36,166 --> 00:05:38,041
Sugar Land was all about a melting pot.
109
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A lot of Desis moved here,
a lot of East Asians.
110
00:05:41,708 --> 00:05:43,208
And it became incredibly diverse,
111
00:05:43,291 --> 00:05:46,083
but the African-American population
always remained low.
112
00:05:46,708 --> 00:05:49,083
There weren't any black kids at school.
113
00:05:49,666 --> 00:05:53,000
Or really have any other, you know,
black kids to relate to.
114
00:05:56,750 --> 00:05:58,500
Today someone said,
115
00:05:58,583 --> 00:06:00,541
"You're the nicest black person I've met."
116
00:06:01,666 --> 00:06:03,375
Why can't I just be a nice person?
117
00:06:04,750 --> 00:06:06,000
He couldn't wear
118
00:06:06,083 --> 00:06:08,625
what was traditionally considered
"black clothing,"
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00:06:08,833 --> 00:06:11,750
'cause he, you know--
people would say he's not real black.
120
00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:14,875
Uh, he tried the goth, emo, punk,
121
00:06:14,958 --> 00:06:17,333
you know, stuff from Hot Topic.
It didn't really work.
122
00:06:17,541 --> 00:06:19,291
Kinda just tried everything,
123
00:06:19,458 --> 00:06:21,208
you know, just throw a bunch
against the wall,
124
00:06:21,291 --> 00:06:24,166
see what sticks type of thing,
and nothing really stuck.
125
00:06:24,375 --> 00:06:27,583
Because he grew up around us,
like, he liked our culture, too.
126
00:06:34,875 --> 00:06:37,916
Our friends and I
were just debating with him, like,
127
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,458
"You're already hanging out with us
this much,
128
00:06:39,750 --> 00:06:41,666
you already believe the same things
we believe.
129
00:06:42,833 --> 00:06:45,416
Why not just say a few words,
accept the religion,
130
00:06:45,500 --> 00:06:48,166
and just pray with us
so that you're 100 % Muslim?"
131
00:06:51,291 --> 00:06:52,750
We were just hanging out in my car,
132
00:06:52,833 --> 00:06:54,541
and I told him what to say
and what to repeat,
133
00:06:55,208 --> 00:06:56,125
and he did it.
134
00:06:56,666 --> 00:06:59,375
And I was like, "Did anything change?
Do you feel any different?"
135
00:06:59,458 --> 00:07:01,791
And he was like,
"No, I feel exactly the same."
136
00:07:03,125 --> 00:07:06,041
I'm like, "That's all it is.
It's what's in your heart that counts."
137
00:07:12,625 --> 00:07:14,625
He converted at least three times.
138
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,250
Went to the Shahada,
which says you officially converted.
139
00:07:18,708 --> 00:07:21,625
And every time he converted,
he got those big group of hugs
140
00:07:21,708 --> 00:07:23,125
he gets from uncles and people.
141
00:07:24,666 --> 00:07:27,666
We-- We tried our best
to include him in everything.
142
00:07:28,208 --> 00:07:31,291
Mark still never really fit in,
even when he became a Muslim.
143
00:07:31,375 --> 00:07:33,708
He was always that "black Muslim."
144
00:07:34,291 --> 00:07:36,166
We used to call him Beyoncé.
145
00:07:36,250 --> 00:07:38,958
I remember we called him Beyoncé.
146
00:07:39,541 --> 00:07:42,375
The effortless joke.
Uh, you know, something about...
147
00:07:42,958 --> 00:07:46,791
black people and fried chicken,
or black people and watermelon.
148
00:07:47,541 --> 00:07:49,291
He would fire back with...
149
00:07:50,333 --> 00:07:54,125
you know, Pakistanis owning
convenience stores and gas stations.
150
00:07:54,791 --> 00:07:57,958
He was still a black guy
with a bunch of brown folk.
151
00:07:58,166 --> 00:08:00,625
We still had our language,
we still spoke our language.
152
00:08:00,708 --> 00:08:02,250
We did our best to keep him involved.
153
00:08:02,333 --> 00:08:04,625
I don't think we ever did, uh--
made him feel isolated.
154
00:08:04,708 --> 00:08:07,083
A Muslim is
the bottom of the barrel in this country.
155
00:08:07,166 --> 00:08:08,000
Like, period.
156
00:08:08,083 --> 00:08:10,291
Like, the blacks have it better
than a Muslim.
157
00:08:10,375 --> 00:08:12,000
The whites have it better than a Muslim--
158
00:08:12,083 --> 00:08:14,375
- Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
- What you mean?
159
00:08:14,666 --> 00:08:16,500
He was the butt of the jokes,
you know?
160
00:08:16,791 --> 00:08:19,666
He was the one that was getting picked on,
and, like, he was going along with it
161
00:08:19,750 --> 00:08:20,833
at that time, but...
162
00:08:20,916 --> 00:08:23,125
over time, people start getting
more sensitive to things,
163
00:08:23,208 --> 00:08:25,750
and you just don't know where,
you know, things go wrong.
164
00:08:26,666 --> 00:08:30,708
After he accepted Islam,
he only did more good things to, uh...
165
00:08:30,791 --> 00:08:32,208
to spend more time at the masjid.
166
00:08:32,291 --> 00:08:36,583
While the cultured,
first-generation American-Muslims
167
00:08:36,666 --> 00:08:39,250
who were born and raised here
all did the bad things
168
00:08:39,333 --> 00:08:42,833
that any other high schooler would do,
Mark never did any of those things.
169
00:08:42,916 --> 00:08:45,375
He started asking questions about Islam,
170
00:08:45,583 --> 00:08:47,791
and, you know,
we tried our best to answer 'em.
171
00:08:48,541 --> 00:08:50,083
A lot of times, we didn't have the answers
172
00:08:50,166 --> 00:08:52,500
and we told him to, you know--
We told him, "Look, um,
173
00:08:52,583 --> 00:08:55,791
we don't exactly know.
You should probably seek out the answer."
174
00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:59,708
And, uh, I think that was
where things started going weird.
175
00:09:00,416 --> 00:09:02,875
Why is it that I see
176
00:09:02,958 --> 00:09:05,333
so many people born into Islam
177
00:09:05,958 --> 00:09:09,500
forming opinions and--and patterns of behavior
178
00:09:09,958 --> 00:09:11,166
outside of Islam?
179
00:09:12,750 --> 00:09:14,375
Is it out of misinformation?
180
00:09:15,791 --> 00:09:19,416
Or do people simply not careabout right between wrong?
181
00:09:30,416 --> 00:09:32,041
I think it was after college
182
00:09:32,375 --> 00:09:34,291
when we started seeing a change.
183
00:09:35,166 --> 00:09:37,750
He couldn't get a job
because he did poli-science.
184
00:09:38,125 --> 00:09:41,250
And, uh, yeah, he couldn't do it.
He-- He didn't, like--
185
00:09:41,333 --> 00:09:44,416
He didn't have the opportunity
of getting a-- a proper job.
186
00:09:45,166 --> 00:09:48,458
He finally got a job, and he left.
187
00:09:48,833 --> 00:09:51,166
He left for a good six months to a year.
188
00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:54,083
He did contract work
as a truck driver for some oil place
189
00:09:54,166 --> 00:09:57,083
in some very, uh--
Uh, white town.
190
00:09:58,583 --> 00:10:00,958
The individuals
that he dealt with
191
00:10:01,041 --> 00:10:02,500
didn't like Muslims at all.
192
00:10:04,166 --> 00:10:07,500
I think that's when it started--
started changing a little bit.
193
00:10:08,458 --> 00:10:10,708
Like, he was almost solidified
in his belief
194
00:10:10,958 --> 00:10:15,541
that, uh, the non-Muslims are the enemies
of the Muslim, right?
195
00:10:16,250 --> 00:10:18,708
And then, uh,
we have to establish a caliphate.
196
00:10:18,833 --> 00:10:20,791
He was passing out CDs
of Anwar al-Aulaqi,
197
00:10:20,875 --> 00:10:22,375
calling for Jihad, I believe.
198
00:10:22,458 --> 00:10:24,166
And people were like,
"Dude, you can't do this.
199
00:10:24,250 --> 00:10:27,083
Like, this is...
a really, really bad situation.
200
00:10:27,166 --> 00:10:29,625
You're gonna call undue attention
on these Muslims,
201
00:10:29,708 --> 00:10:32,375
and they don't want to get any attention
from the feds in any way."
202
00:10:32,458 --> 00:10:34,833
So once that happened,
I think he was kicked out.
203
00:10:35,041 --> 00:10:36,458
He hated everything
that was happening
204
00:10:36,541 --> 00:10:38,208
to the Muslims all over the world.
205
00:10:38,333 --> 00:10:44,708
Um, and he blamed, I guess, the Muslims
who were having fun more than they should.
206
00:10:45,208 --> 00:10:48,958
I remember walking into Kroger's
in Sweetwater,
207
00:10:49,958 --> 00:10:52,541
and I saw him... stocking.
208
00:10:52,625 --> 00:10:54,875
And he had, like,
a huge beard at that time.
209
00:10:55,333 --> 00:10:57,375
I was like, "What's up with the beard?"
This, that, the other,
210
00:10:57,458 --> 00:10:59,250
and he's like, "You know...
211
00:10:59,666 --> 00:11:02,375
You guys don't know the religion right.
You just...
212
00:11:02,791 --> 00:11:06,375
You-- You don't know anything.
You just-- You're by birth."
213
00:11:06,458 --> 00:11:09,041
He goes on to say that,
"You guys are coconut Muslims.
214
00:11:09,125 --> 00:11:11,458
You know, you justify
your Western society,
215
00:11:11,541 --> 00:11:13,916
you know, to-- to-- to fit in with Islam.
216
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,875
Right?
But you're not gonna do the opposite.
217
00:11:15,958 --> 00:11:17,750
You're not gonna take your Islam
and, you know,
218
00:11:17,833 --> 00:11:19,375
justify it into your own life."
219
00:11:20,958 --> 00:11:24,083
It's a very sad moment when you goto the masjid for Friday prayers,
220
00:11:24,916 --> 00:11:27,416
and you see people sellingbeard trimmers outside.
221
00:11:28,958 --> 00:11:30,875
Why do Muslim men wear shorts?
222
00:11:31,208 --> 00:11:33,750
No one wants to see their private parts.
223
00:11:35,250 --> 00:11:36,708
American Muslims,
224
00:11:36,791 --> 00:11:38,833
you have done a great jobat staying silent
225
00:11:38,916 --> 00:11:42,041
as your government killedand pillaged people in Africa,
226
00:11:42,125 --> 00:11:43,958
the Middle East, and Asia.
227
00:11:45,083 --> 00:11:47,875
He's happy American soldiers
are coming home in body bags.
228
00:11:47,958 --> 00:11:50,500
He would alhamdulillah,
and, uh, hopefully--
229
00:11:50,583 --> 00:11:51,458
And, uh, you know,
230
00:11:51,541 --> 00:11:54,791
"Let's keep praying for the destruction
of anybody who stands in our path."
231
00:11:55,208 --> 00:11:59,166
He sees the brothers and sisters
over here living nice and comfortably,
232
00:11:59,250 --> 00:12:02,250
not really being able to care
for the people over there
233
00:12:02,333 --> 00:12:04,583
that are being hurt,
that are being killed.
234
00:12:04,666 --> 00:12:06,666
When you tell me
that he converts to Islam,
235
00:12:06,750 --> 00:12:08,750
"Bam, now I feel bad...
...about people."
236
00:12:08,833 --> 00:12:10,833
Just to show people how-- how strong,
how I believe.
237
00:12:10,916 --> 00:12:12,833
That-- That's not--
That seems more immature,
238
00:12:12,916 --> 00:12:14,000
and that seems even selfish.
239
00:12:14,083 --> 00:12:17,125
You are over here living comfortable,
living cushy
240
00:12:17,250 --> 00:12:21,916
with, you know, your schools,
and your, uh, degrees, and your jobs,
241
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,708
and, you know, this whole, you know, life.
242
00:12:24,791 --> 00:12:26,541
You almost sound like him right now.
243
00:12:26,625 --> 00:12:28,750
You almost sound like--
like this is us versus them.
244
00:12:28,833 --> 00:12:31,541
You're doing what the--
what the Sith do, talking absolutes.
245
00:12:31,625 --> 00:12:33,625
He's putting himself in their shoes.
246
00:12:33,708 --> 00:12:36,750
That's why he's getting...
angry and upset.
247
00:12:36,875 --> 00:12:39,083
So, in that sense, like,
I do agree with him.
248
00:12:39,375 --> 00:12:42,166
You know, somebody needs to step up
and do something.
249
00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:45,833
Because the world is just watching
these people get basically pummeled
250
00:12:45,916 --> 00:12:46,833
into the ground.
251
00:12:51,916 --> 00:12:56,208
I still felt like this guy is legit
in what he's saying.
252
00:12:56,291 --> 00:12:57,833
He's just not articulating it properly,
253
00:12:57,916 --> 00:13:00,791
because the audience
that he's catering to has just,
254
00:13:00,875 --> 00:13:03,708
you know, embraced Western culture.
255
00:13:03,958 --> 00:13:06,875
The suburban Desi, the Sugar Land Desi,
256
00:13:06,958 --> 00:13:09,958
he's tryin' to be as American as possible.
257
00:13:13,250 --> 00:13:16,125
With everything
that was being said bad about...
258
00:13:16,291 --> 00:13:19,166
Muslims on the-- on the news
and on the Internet,
259
00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:20,666
I guess everyone wanted to say,
260
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:22,666
"Hey, look,
I'm not like that type of Muslim.
261
00:13:22,750 --> 00:13:24,250
I'm not like Osama Bin Laden.
262
00:13:24,333 --> 00:13:26,583
You know, I'm...
I'm born and raised here in America.
263
00:13:26,666 --> 00:13:27,708
I'm different."
264
00:13:28,291 --> 00:13:30,250
You know,
I was told, "Don't go paintballing,
265
00:13:30,333 --> 00:13:33,583
at least until things cool down."
Any other activity like that,
266
00:13:33,666 --> 00:13:35,625
that could be construed
as a militant activity,
267
00:13:35,708 --> 00:13:37,583
we were told to stay away from,
for your own good.
268
00:13:37,666 --> 00:13:39,250
You don't wanna get on the hook
for that.
269
00:13:39,333 --> 00:13:41,333
Like, after 9/11, I remember...
270
00:13:41,708 --> 00:13:45,083
I had all these, like, T-shirts.
Like, I had, like, a-- an MSA,
271
00:13:45,166 --> 00:13:47,375
Muslim Students Association, shirts.
272
00:13:47,625 --> 00:13:50,083
Uh, my mom was, like, not cool with that.
273
00:13:50,166 --> 00:13:53,375
One day, she threw them all away.
'Cause she was like,
274
00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:56,958
"I don't want you wearing these,
and I don't want people to, like, know...
275
00:13:57,083 --> 00:13:58,500
you're a part of this community,"
276
00:13:58,583 --> 00:14:00,958
because she was afraid
that I would be targeted.
277
00:14:13,875 --> 00:14:15,541
American Muslims,
278
00:14:15,625 --> 00:14:17,333
please wake up.
279
00:14:17,416 --> 00:14:18,833
If the kafir
280
00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:20,000
truly feared the Muslims...
281
00:14:20,083 --> 00:14:22,416
...they would not be killing us globally.
282
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,250
The fact they don't fear us
283
00:14:25,333 --> 00:14:27,333
is why they keep shedding our blood.
284
00:14:27,875 --> 00:14:30,750
It is obligatory for Muslims in Iraq
285
00:14:30,833 --> 00:14:31,958
and Afghanistan
286
00:14:32,333 --> 00:14:33,666
to engage in jihad.
287
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:38,416
How the fuck is he getting away
with this shit?
288
00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:40,500
He was on Facebook posting
for how many months?
289
00:14:40,583 --> 00:14:43,250
That's why there's
two sides to what I believe in.
290
00:14:43,333 --> 00:14:44,416
- Right.
- And you can make
291
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:45,833
really strong arguments for both sides.
292
00:14:45,916 --> 00:14:47,208
- For both sides.
- Very strong.
293
00:14:47,583 --> 00:14:49,166
Mark got away with murder.
294
00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:51,958
If anybody said what--
the shit that Mark said--
295
00:14:52,041 --> 00:14:53,166
If we said, yeah.
296
00:14:53,250 --> 00:14:56,583
Yeah. If any brown person
with a Muslim name
297
00:14:56,958 --> 00:15:00,541
said the shit Mark said,
we would be locked up doing life.
298
00:15:01,458 --> 00:15:02,708
Openly talked about jihad
299
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,541
on, you know, online, on the Internet,
300
00:15:06,208 --> 00:15:08,833
on YouTube, on social media, right?
301
00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:13,125
In high school and during college,
there was none of that.
302
00:15:13,208 --> 00:15:16,750
But then, all of a sudden,
this huge change, post-graduation.
303
00:15:19,458 --> 00:15:21,583
It's not out of this world
to believe that...
304
00:15:22,833 --> 00:15:25,208
that a convert,
somebody who converted to Islam,
305
00:15:25,833 --> 00:15:27,750
was found out to be an FBI informant.
306
00:15:28,416 --> 00:15:30,375
A lot of people
were just kind of shocked
307
00:15:30,458 --> 00:15:33,375
at the fact that, you know... um...
308
00:15:33,583 --> 00:15:37,208
FBI agents had been embedded so firmly
in the Houston Muslim community.
309
00:15:37,416 --> 00:15:39,666
An FBI car would be parked
outside of my house
310
00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:41,541
because my brother was at madrassa.
311
00:15:41,625 --> 00:15:45,583
And we'd know that we were getting,
you know, tracked.
312
00:15:46,166 --> 00:15:47,166
Always happens.
313
00:15:47,625 --> 00:15:50,458
Mom and Dad is ex-military. Right?
314
00:15:51,541 --> 00:15:53,666
None of this is going on
before graduation.
315
00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:56,333
Post-graduation, Mom and Dad is like,
316
00:15:56,833 --> 00:15:58,708
"You know what? Our baby needs a job."
317
00:15:58,791 --> 00:16:02,208
Get him up there to DC,
do some training for six, seven months,
318
00:16:03,125 --> 00:16:04,916
send him back down here as a mole,
319
00:16:05,583 --> 00:16:07,125
and, uh... uh, get to work.
320
00:16:13,833 --> 00:16:16,666
Mark, on his Facebook,
checks into Turkey.
321
00:16:17,291 --> 00:16:18,625
And that's when I'm like...
322
00:16:19,750 --> 00:16:21,541
- "Fuck." I was like...
- "What?"
323
00:16:21,625 --> 00:16:24,416
I went around telling everybody,
'cause Turkey, at that time,
324
00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:27,416
was known as, like,
this portal into ISIS, right?
325
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,625
So, a couple weeks passed by,
and bam, there it is.
326
00:16:30,708 --> 00:16:33,875
I wake up this one morning,
and there's a fucking big ass message.
327
00:16:33,958 --> 00:16:35,083
And I get this huge hard-on
328
00:16:35,166 --> 00:16:36,750
'cause I'm about to read it.
329
00:16:38,750 --> 00:16:41,250
I am now currently livingin the Islamic State.
330
00:16:42,291 --> 00:16:44,583
I'm sure some people want to knowwhat life is like here,
331
00:16:44,666 --> 00:16:46,500
so I'll tell you honestly.
332
00:16:47,458 --> 00:16:49,958
So, he was open about himself being
in Syria.
333
00:16:50,041 --> 00:16:53,083
He gave, like, a full-on, thorough,
Yelp-type review about ISIS.
334
00:16:53,583 --> 00:16:54,458
Food.
335
00:16:54,583 --> 00:16:56,333
You won't find Chinese takeaway,
336
00:16:56,541 --> 00:16:58,041
Mexican, or sushi.
337
00:16:58,125 --> 00:17:00,125
Cell phones.Cell phones are available here.
338
00:17:00,458 --> 00:17:03,541
However, all service has been banneddue to American drones.
339
00:17:03,708 --> 00:17:05,916
Slavery. Slaves do exist here.
340
00:17:06,458 --> 00:17:08,083
I personally haven't seen any.
341
00:17:08,291 --> 00:17:09,208
Television.
342
00:17:09,291 --> 00:17:11,208
The Islamic State allows television.
343
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,375
Two out of ten for this shit.
344
00:17:13,458 --> 00:17:15,416
Four out of five for this bullshit.
345
00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:17,541
You know,
Internet, fuckin' zero out of ten.
346
00:17:17,625 --> 00:17:19,458
So it was very like Mark complaints.
347
00:17:20,541 --> 00:17:22,708
But it-- it-- it's just, you know...
348
00:17:23,625 --> 00:17:25,458
It's sad, sad to see where he is.
349
00:17:25,541 --> 00:17:27,916
Sad to see what's happened to him,
if it's true.
350
00:17:28,250 --> 00:17:31,875
If he's an FBI informant,
then at least he got a job.
351
00:17:32,208 --> 00:17:33,625
I go back and forth.
352
00:17:34,166 --> 00:17:36,250
I-- I think a part of me thinks he did.
353
00:17:36,833 --> 00:17:39,375
Uh, now. Like, at this point--
if you ask me tomorrow,
354
00:17:39,458 --> 00:17:42,083
I'll probably be like,
"Nah, he's an FBI informant."
355
00:17:43,083 --> 00:17:45,708
I would 100 % rather have him be an agent
356
00:17:46,416 --> 00:17:47,583
than to be radicalized.
357
00:17:48,333 --> 00:17:51,416
Because it is--
it is more heartbreaking for me...
358
00:17:51,916 --> 00:17:53,000
to believe...
359
00:17:53,666 --> 00:17:55,000
to know that he, uh...
360
00:17:55,666 --> 00:17:57,791
that he really believes the things
that he says.
361
00:17:57,875 --> 00:18:01,250
That, to me, is more heartbreaking
than for him to be an agent
362
00:18:01,833 --> 00:18:03,000
tryin' to, you know...
363
00:18:03,083 --> 00:18:05,583
Or being an informant,
tryin' to save his own ass.
364
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:07,458
That, to me, is not as heartbreaking
365
00:18:07,541 --> 00:18:10,208
as it is to know
that he actually believes the bullshit
366
00:18:10,291 --> 00:18:11,291
that he preaches.
367
00:18:46,666 --> 00:18:49,541
You know, I-- I feel like...
like I let him down.
368
00:18:50,333 --> 00:18:51,875
That I'm somewhat responsible.
369
00:18:53,916 --> 00:18:55,875
Because, like I was saying earlier,
it's that...
370
00:18:55,958 --> 00:18:58,541
you know, he asked us
these questions about Islam.
371
00:18:58,625 --> 00:19:00,666
And if I could have just answered
those questions for him,
372
00:19:00,750 --> 00:19:01,833
even if I didn't have the answers,
373
00:19:01,916 --> 00:19:04,541
if I could have guided him
to the right sources...
374
00:19:05,458 --> 00:19:06,458
he wouldn't be this way.
375
00:19:10,875 --> 00:19:13,333
He would say, "Hey, why is--
Why does the Koran say this?"
376
00:19:13,416 --> 00:19:14,458
Or, "Why does the Koran say that?"
377
00:19:14,541 --> 00:19:17,208
And we'd say, "I don't fucking know,
you know? Go look it up."
378
00:19:18,625 --> 00:19:21,416
And I feel like that's--
that's where everything went wrong.
379
00:19:23,583 --> 00:19:26,208
That if I could have just either
answered those questions for him,
380
00:19:26,291 --> 00:19:29,250
or if I didn't have the answers, taken him
to somebody who did have the answers,
381
00:19:29,875 --> 00:19:33,666
maybe he'd still be with us...
one of us, today.
382
00:19:36,416 --> 00:19:38,791
Has anyone here prepared
for the possibility
383
00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:41,750
that he may not even be alive
at this point?
384
00:19:42,041 --> 00:19:45,708
That's what-- More and more,
that-- that question plagues me more than,
385
00:19:45,791 --> 00:19:49,083
"Oh, was he a spy?
Or was he... was he really radicalized?
386
00:19:49,166 --> 00:19:51,375
Did he do this on purpose,
or is it just what happened?
387
00:19:51,458 --> 00:19:54,083
Is it a mental thing?"
That, I think about that far less
388
00:19:54,166 --> 00:19:56,416
than I actually think about the--
the idea that,
389
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,375
"Is this guy--"
390
00:19:58,458 --> 00:20:00,375
- "Has he passed? Is he dead?"
- Well--
391
00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:02,208
I'm pretty sure--
I'm assuming--
392
00:20:02,291 --> 00:20:04,666
That's something I struggle with
more than anything else.
32988
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