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1
00:00:12,637 --> 00:00:14,723
(elevator humming)
2
00:00:24,107 --> 00:00:26,359
(elevator chiming)
3
00:00:37,662 --> 00:00:39,706
(elevator door opening)
4
00:00:47,672 --> 00:00:51,343
-Okay. You ready for this?
-Amanda Mustard: How can you be?
5
00:00:55,180 --> 00:00:57,140
You can do it.
6
00:01:19,037 --> 00:01:21,164
William "Bill" Flickinger:
Hello, darling.
7
00:01:24,626 --> 00:01:28,463
-Hi, how are ya?
-Hi. I'm great. How are you?
8
00:01:28,546 --> 00:01:30,215
-Hello, gorgeous.
-Amanda: Hi, Grandpa.
9
00:01:30,256 --> 00:01:31,716
-Bill: Come on in.
-Amanda: How are you doing?
10
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,511
-Bill: Good to see you, baby.
-(Amanda chuckles awkwardly)
11
00:01:36,304 --> 00:01:38,348
I'm glad you came!
12
00:01:38,390 --> 00:01:41,976
-Well, I--
-You look great, woman.
13
00:01:42,060 --> 00:01:46,481
-Eh, thanks.
-You do. You look wonderful.
14
00:01:46,523 --> 00:01:48,233
-I'm good.
-Mm.
15
00:01:48,316 --> 00:01:50,276
It's good.
(chuckles)
16
00:01:52,153 --> 00:01:53,405
(indistinct chatter)
17
00:01:53,613 --> 00:01:57,033
-Lulu, this is
my daughter, Debi.
-Hi.
18
00:01:57,075 --> 00:01:59,244
This is
my granddaughter, Amanda.
19
00:01:59,285 --> 00:02:01,371
-Nice to meet you.
-Nice to meet you.
20
00:02:01,413 --> 00:02:02,747
Hi, Doris.
21
00:02:02,997 --> 00:02:04,582
He's a wonderful person.
22
00:02:04,624 --> 00:02:06,501
-Debi: Good to hear.
-Yes, he is.
23
00:02:06,584 --> 00:02:09,754
Aw, you're sweet, Doris,
you're too nice.
24
00:02:09,838 --> 00:02:11,006
Hi, Ruby!
25
00:02:11,089 --> 00:02:12,298
Ruby:
He's a lovely man.
26
00:02:12,382 --> 00:02:15,343
-Debi: Is he?
-He is. Really nice.
27
00:02:15,427 --> 00:02:17,053
-Bill: What?
-Lorraine: I said, I saw all
28
00:02:17,095 --> 00:02:20,098
-these gorgeous young ladies
coming in here...
-Yes, his family.
29
00:02:20,181 --> 00:02:23,059
...and I walked by,
and there you are.
30
00:02:23,101 --> 00:02:26,354
I hope you are being...
a good boy.
31
00:02:26,438 --> 00:02:28,940
-(people chuckling)
-Bill: It's awful hard,
but I try.
32
00:02:28,982 --> 00:02:31,109
I-I agree, I agree.
33
00:02:31,192 --> 00:02:33,319
Bill: I know you do.
(laughs)
34
00:02:33,403 --> 00:02:36,990
-Lorraine: Have a good one.
-Okay, Lorraine, take care.
35
00:02:37,073 --> 00:02:40,160
That one has a mouth,
and she's-- (sighs)
36
00:02:40,243 --> 00:02:42,370
Takes all kinds when you're
livin' in a community,
37
00:02:42,454 --> 00:02:44,789
-ya know?
-She's so nasty to her husband.
38
00:02:44,873 --> 00:02:47,959
(light music playing)
39
00:02:54,466 --> 00:02:55,800
Of course, honey, of course.
40
00:02:55,842 --> 00:02:58,928
-Don't you
hesitate for anything.
-Amanda: Okay.
41
00:02:58,970 --> 00:03:00,472
I'm at your total disposal.
42
00:03:00,513 --> 00:03:02,474
We're just love
to have you, girl.
43
00:03:02,557 --> 00:03:05,018
-(Amanda clears throat)
-It's an honor and a privilege.
44
00:03:05,101 --> 00:03:07,062
(Amanda clears throat)
45
00:03:07,145 --> 00:03:10,815
♪♪
46
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,529
Amanda:
Now, as far as the issue
that you were accused of,
47
00:03:16,613 --> 00:03:20,909
and I just wanted
to ask if you did identify
48
00:03:20,992 --> 00:03:23,244
as having those struggles
49
00:03:23,328 --> 00:03:25,914
and, and how you
felt about that.
50
00:03:29,292 --> 00:03:31,086
-Bill:
Did I have a battle with that?
-Amanda: Mm-hmm.
51
00:03:31,169 --> 00:03:33,672
You better believe I did.
52
00:03:33,755 --> 00:03:34,547
I don't know,
53
00:03:34,631 --> 00:03:37,092
but I sure did.
Absolutely.
54
00:03:37,175 --> 00:03:38,385
And I used to fight with myself.
55
00:03:38,468 --> 00:03:42,222
I said,
"Why do you do this?
This is not right."
56
00:03:42,305 --> 00:03:45,850
I didn't want to do things
that were bad or wrong,
57
00:03:45,934 --> 00:03:50,271
but it, it, it just--
and it just seemed like
what was so strange--
58
00:03:50,355 --> 00:03:52,232
I couldn't-- I still haven't
figured that one out,
59
00:03:52,315 --> 00:03:55,652
but it seems so strange
because there were times
60
00:03:55,694 --> 00:03:58,029
that-- and I don't know
the answer to it,
61
00:03:58,113 --> 00:03:59,739
but it seemed like
62
00:03:59,823 --> 00:04:01,658
that some of these
little girls, for example,
63
00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:04,035
would almost
throw themselves at me.
64
00:04:04,077 --> 00:04:06,329
Now, that might sound
a little stupid,
65
00:04:06,413 --> 00:04:09,290
but they wanted to learn things,
and they were experimental.
66
00:04:09,374 --> 00:04:11,334
They want-- Ya know?
67
00:04:11,376 --> 00:04:15,672
And it-- to me, it was
too much of an open temptation.
68
00:04:17,048 --> 00:04:19,634
And I fell into it.
69
00:04:22,554 --> 00:04:23,972
Yeah, there was
things that happened.
70
00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:25,682
-Oh, absolutely.
-Amanda: Mm-hmm.
71
00:04:25,724 --> 00:04:29,394
We had quite
an engagement, so to speak,
72
00:04:29,477 --> 00:04:32,647
and, uh, we were
very close, sexually.
73
00:04:32,731 --> 00:04:36,651
Even though she was little...
and she loved it.
74
00:04:36,735 --> 00:04:38,695
Amanda:
Can I ask how old she was?
75
00:04:38,737 --> 00:04:42,907
Well, she started--
I think she started around
the age of 9 through 11.
76
00:04:42,991 --> 00:04:46,369
(uneasy music playing)
77
00:05:00,133 --> 00:05:03,428
(ambient nature sounds)
78
00:05:07,557 --> 00:05:10,810
-(animals chittering)
-(indistinct chatter)
79
00:05:15,023 --> 00:05:17,525
Amanda:
Uh, how 'bout
the, uh, the, the boy?
80
00:05:17,609 --> 00:05:20,570
Can he come to another elephant?
81
00:05:29,204 --> 00:05:32,457
-(cars honking)
-(ambient street noise)
82
00:05:34,167 --> 00:05:37,212
(background street noise)
83
00:05:37,295 --> 00:05:38,713
(door closes)
84
00:05:42,467 --> 00:05:44,052
(vehicle honks)
85
00:05:50,975 --> 00:05:53,019
(thunder rumbling)
86
00:05:56,773 --> 00:05:58,817
(ringback tone)
87
00:06:00,819 --> 00:06:03,071
Debi (over phone):
Hey, Amanda, it's Mom.
88
00:06:03,655 --> 00:06:06,783
If you could
give me a call back
as soon as possible.
89
00:06:06,825 --> 00:06:09,077
Grandma is not
doing well at all.
90
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,204
(thunder continues)
91
00:06:11,746 --> 00:06:14,082
Um, not sure what to expect.
92
00:06:15,750 --> 00:06:19,379
Alright, I love you.
I'll talk to you later. Bye.
93
00:06:22,340 --> 00:06:24,634
(plane engines humming)
94
00:06:25,969 --> 00:06:28,930
Bill: Well, what do ya think
about that, huh?
95
00:06:30,306 --> 00:06:33,435
There we get to see that dolly.
96
00:06:43,987 --> 00:06:45,947
Is the pain a little better?
97
00:06:46,031 --> 00:06:50,827
Okay, good. You were
really hurtin' earlier.
98
00:06:52,746 --> 00:06:56,166
My mom's life was like
one of those crystals
99
00:06:56,207 --> 00:06:57,709
that you can hang in the sun,
100
00:06:57,751 --> 00:07:00,211
and you see different facets.
101
00:07:01,463 --> 00:07:03,715
A lot of it is a mystery.
102
00:07:03,757 --> 00:07:05,884
In the few times
that I did ask her
103
00:07:05,967 --> 00:07:08,678
to tell me
the truth about things,
104
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,557
like my past,
or my dad, or whatever,
105
00:07:12,599 --> 00:07:15,560
she just got angry with me,
106
00:07:15,643 --> 00:07:18,563
and she would just say there is
no use in bringing up the past
107
00:07:18,605 --> 00:07:21,649
because it's not
gonna change what happened.
108
00:07:21,733 --> 00:07:24,194
(light music playing)
109
00:07:24,235 --> 00:07:27,072
She knew so much more
than what she ever expressed
110
00:07:27,155 --> 00:07:30,116
because she wasn't
allowed to express it.
111
00:07:32,786 --> 00:07:35,955
-(indistinct chatter)
-(machines beeping)
112
00:07:36,039 --> 00:07:38,917
♪♪
113
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,962
My dad stole
my mom's entire life.
114
00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:50,261
She left
with all of her secrets.
115
00:07:50,345 --> 00:07:51,596
She knew so much
116
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,724
and she defended him
until the day she died.
117
00:07:54,766 --> 00:07:58,436
And I feel like she had
a million and one regrets
118
00:07:58,478 --> 00:08:01,773
because she never lived
her life for herself.
119
00:08:06,611 --> 00:08:10,115
The impact that my dad
has had on our family,
120
00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:11,783
I think, is devastating,
121
00:08:11,866 --> 00:08:14,953
but we've never
talked about it.
122
00:08:15,245 --> 00:08:17,664
So we don't know the truth.
123
00:08:20,125 --> 00:08:22,085
How do you change that?
124
00:08:22,127 --> 00:08:24,212
♪♪
125
00:08:39,686 --> 00:08:42,647
It's funny when you
think about, you know,
126
00:08:42,731 --> 00:08:44,983
how Grandpa liked
the burnt cookies.
127
00:08:45,025 --> 00:08:46,860
Like, why was
he strange like that?
128
00:08:46,943 --> 00:08:48,653
Everybody else
liked the normal ones,
129
00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:50,613
but why did he like, ya know--
130
00:08:51,072 --> 00:08:56,327
ya know, just different.
He was always different.
131
00:08:56,369 --> 00:08:59,539
Amanda:
So I'm just gonna go through
some of the paperwork
132
00:08:59,622 --> 00:09:02,042
that we got from Grandma.
133
00:09:04,044 --> 00:09:06,880
There's all these papers
134
00:09:06,963 --> 00:09:10,717
from McKean County
in Bradford, Pennsylvania,
135
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,012
concerning
Dr. William Flickinger.
136
00:09:14,054 --> 00:09:15,513
Grandpa.
137
00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:19,059
Did you know
what he did in Bradford?
138
00:09:19,142 --> 00:09:22,687
Well, when I started finding out
about everything about him,
139
00:09:22,771 --> 00:09:26,066
was when I was,
uh, like, a junior.
140
00:09:26,149 --> 00:09:27,400
But what happened?
141
00:09:27,484 --> 00:09:29,527
Like, you don't know
what happened.
142
00:09:29,611 --> 00:09:32,530
No, all I remember
is coming in to school,
143
00:09:32,614 --> 00:09:35,825
and that's when
I walked down the hallway.
144
00:09:35,867 --> 00:09:38,620
Where all
the football players were
was where my locker was.
145
00:09:38,703 --> 00:09:40,914
And he had--
They started sayin'--
146
00:09:40,997 --> 00:09:42,332
They surrounded me
and they said,
147
00:09:42,374 --> 00:09:44,042
"We wanna do to you to what
148
00:09:44,125 --> 00:09:46,795
your dad did
to a-all those girls."
149
00:09:47,712 --> 00:09:51,091
And, of course, Grandma
didn't say a word of anything,
150
00:09:51,174 --> 00:09:54,052
-so it was all just--
-But even you and your brothers,
151
00:09:54,135 --> 00:09:57,222
-like, did you talk ab-- like,
"Wh-What the hell happened?"
-No.
152
00:09:57,263 --> 00:09:59,432
We never talked about anything.
153
00:09:59,808 --> 00:10:02,519
We were never allowed
to see any newspapers.
154
00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,647
I, to this day, I know nothing.
155
00:10:06,272 --> 00:10:09,150
Amanda:
I just wanna try
to line it all up,
156
00:10:09,234 --> 00:10:10,694
see what happened.
157
00:10:10,735 --> 00:10:13,279
Look at, ya know,
some of these names.
158
00:10:13,363 --> 00:10:15,031
I just-- I don't know.
159
00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:17,909
I wanna know more about
what he did up in Bradford.
160
00:10:17,951 --> 00:10:20,412
I mean, it's crazy
that you don't even know.
161
00:10:21,871 --> 00:10:25,291
(tense, energetic music playing)
162
00:10:39,305 --> 00:10:41,099
(ringback tone)
163
00:10:41,141 --> 00:10:42,642
automated voice 1 (over phone):
Thank you for calling.
164
00:10:42,726 --> 00:10:44,978
-God.
-For service, press one.
165
00:10:45,395 --> 00:10:46,646
(operator speaking)
166
00:10:46,730 --> 00:10:48,189
Hi, my name is Amanda,
167
00:10:48,273 --> 00:10:51,776
and I'm looking
for an article from the '70s.
168
00:10:51,818 --> 00:10:55,280
(official speaking)
169
00:10:55,363 --> 00:10:57,449
♪♪
170
00:10:58,616 --> 00:11:00,869
automated voice 2 (over phone):
You have reached
the Filing Office
171
00:11:00,952 --> 00:11:02,704
of the Commonwealth Court
of Pennsylvania.
172
00:11:02,787 --> 00:11:05,290
official (over phone):
That far back, I can't
make any guarantees,
173
00:11:05,331 --> 00:11:06,291
but I could take a look.
174
00:11:06,374 --> 00:11:08,460
♪♪
175
00:11:11,254 --> 00:11:13,089
Amanda:
I'm just looking
for absolutely
176
00:11:13,131 --> 00:11:15,884
any information
around this case.
177
00:11:15,967 --> 00:11:18,386
operator (over phone):
No, cannot find
case number, no.
178
00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:20,221
"Cannot find case number."
179
00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:30,982
♪♪
180
00:11:46,581 --> 00:11:48,041
My family is from Bradford,
181
00:11:48,124 --> 00:11:52,170
and there
was something terrible
that my grandfather did
182
00:11:52,253 --> 00:11:54,839
in Bradford in the '70s.
183
00:11:55,924 --> 00:11:57,759
Does the Bradford Library
184
00:11:57,842 --> 00:12:00,261
keep any records
of newspapers?
185
00:12:01,012 --> 00:12:02,305
So it is all on microfilm?
186
00:12:02,347 --> 00:12:04,808
Okay. Thank you so much
for your help.
187
00:12:07,811 --> 00:12:09,437
speaker (over phone):
Yes, William Flickinger.
188
00:12:09,521 --> 00:12:11,231
Was he a chiropractor?
189
00:12:11,314 --> 00:12:12,399
Amanda:
He was, yes.
190
00:12:12,482 --> 00:12:14,359
speaker:
Yeah, I really don't
remember much.
191
00:12:14,401 --> 00:12:16,611
This was a long time ago.
192
00:12:16,695 --> 00:12:18,947
♪♪
193
00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:33,837
In '75, he was convicted
of statutory rape
194
00:12:33,878 --> 00:12:35,755
of a 12-year-old girl.
195
00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:40,135
So, since it was his
first offense, technically,
196
00:12:40,218 --> 00:12:42,053
all he got was
two years' probation.
197
00:12:42,137 --> 00:12:44,514
He did not spend
a day in jail,
198
00:12:44,556 --> 00:12:47,517
and just up and moved
four hours away to Harrisburg
199
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,186
with a totally clean slate.
200
00:12:53,898 --> 00:12:56,568
How the fuck was
that allowed to happen?
201
00:13:00,947 --> 00:13:05,160
-(ambient street noise)
-(birds chirping)
202
00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:15,920
(yelps)
203
00:13:15,962 --> 00:13:18,757
I've always known
my grandpa was creepy,
204
00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:20,383
and that
some things happened,
205
00:13:20,425 --> 00:13:23,595
but it was so vague,
and now that I'm looking closer
206
00:13:23,678 --> 00:13:26,973
and finding
concrete rape charges
207
00:13:27,057 --> 00:13:30,226
that he managed
to kind of weasel out of,
208
00:13:30,268 --> 00:13:32,520
(stammers) it's just
scratching the surface.
209
00:13:32,604 --> 00:13:34,272
I just need to keep looking.
210
00:13:34,356 --> 00:13:36,483
Maybe I can
hold him accountable.
211
00:13:36,733 --> 00:13:38,860
He's still alive.
212
00:13:41,946 --> 00:13:45,075
I never thought that I'd
move back to Pennsylvania.
213
00:13:45,116 --> 00:13:49,120
There's a lotta pain
in my past here.
214
00:13:50,789 --> 00:13:53,917
My childhood was difficult.
215
00:13:53,958 --> 00:13:57,128
There was so much
dysfunction in my family
216
00:13:57,170 --> 00:14:01,466
and no communication about
what was really going on.
217
00:14:01,549 --> 00:14:03,468
(imitates drumroll)
218
00:14:03,551 --> 00:14:07,305
I just felt this pressure
to maintain this image
219
00:14:07,347 --> 00:14:10,809
that we were
this picture-perfect
Christian family.
220
00:14:10,892 --> 00:14:12,477
I just wanted out.
221
00:14:13,978 --> 00:14:15,814
So a week after I turned 18,
222
00:14:15,855 --> 00:14:20,110
I left my family,
my faith, the state.
223
00:14:20,151 --> 00:14:22,987
I eventually left the country.
224
00:14:23,697 --> 00:14:26,658
(singing in native dialect)
225
00:14:26,741 --> 00:14:29,828
(light music playing)
226
00:14:30,161 --> 00:14:33,456
-(honking)
-(crowd chanting)
227
00:14:34,165 --> 00:14:36,209
-(glass shatters)
-Ooh!
228
00:14:36,292 --> 00:14:37,669
(speaker yells)
229
00:14:37,752 --> 00:14:40,338
-(explosion)
-(whistling)
230
00:14:42,257 --> 00:14:46,011
Amanda:
My childhood dream was to be
an ice cream truck driver,
231
00:14:46,052 --> 00:14:50,015
uh, not a photojournalist.
(laughs)
232
00:14:50,807 --> 00:14:55,020
But I love that I get to
233
00:14:55,103 --> 00:14:57,981
make exposing the truth
about something
234
00:14:58,023 --> 00:15:00,025
a part of my job.
235
00:15:05,363 --> 00:15:07,449
♪♪
236
00:15:25,675 --> 00:15:30,221
I managed to put
enough distance between
me and my family
237
00:15:30,305 --> 00:15:33,558
to give me some
healthy perspective.
238
00:15:34,893 --> 00:15:38,438
I had this new
understanding and language
239
00:15:38,521 --> 00:15:41,066
to describe things
that, for my whole life,
240
00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:42,567
I thought were just normal.
241
00:15:42,650 --> 00:15:48,156
Like, the way that some men
treated me and my body,
242
00:15:48,239 --> 00:15:50,658
that was actually assault.
243
00:15:51,076 --> 00:15:56,039
Or my "touchy-feely" grandpa
is actually a pedophile.
244
00:15:58,291 --> 00:16:01,086
I was just starting
to reframe this all
245
00:16:01,127 --> 00:16:02,754
when my grandma died.
246
00:16:02,796 --> 00:16:07,258
And it just set me on fire.
I had so many questions.
247
00:16:08,259 --> 00:16:10,553
So when my mom asked me
to go to Florida with her
248
00:16:10,595 --> 00:16:13,973
to take my grandma's
ashes to my grandpa,
249
00:16:14,057 --> 00:16:17,310
I saw my chance to go
straight to the source.
250
00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:21,523
Bill (in video):
If you can talk to it,
and clapping your hands
251
00:16:21,606 --> 00:16:24,109
-it'll go to work. Okay?
-Amanda (in video): Okay.
252
00:16:24,192 --> 00:16:27,654
I was so nervous.
253
00:16:27,737 --> 00:16:30,907
-I was so, I was so
nervous doing this.
-Debi: You? I--
254
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:33,410
Oh, my gosh.
I was more nervous.
255
00:16:33,993 --> 00:16:36,121
I think I was so nervous,
I wanted to throw up.
256
00:16:36,204 --> 00:16:38,289
-Are you serious?
-Mm-hmm.
257
00:16:38,331 --> 00:16:40,625
Because I didn't know
what his reaction would be.
258
00:16:40,709 --> 00:16:43,378
I thought,
because of his anger,
I thought he would just--
259
00:16:43,461 --> 00:16:45,922
Amanda:
But he's never really
been angry with you.
260
00:16:45,964 --> 00:16:48,049
-That you've seen.
-That I've seen.
261
00:16:48,133 --> 00:16:49,300
Debi:
Mm-hmm.
262
00:16:49,342 --> 00:16:51,886
Amanda (in video):
As far as younger girls--
263
00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:54,180
Okay, this I wanna listen to.
264
00:16:54,472 --> 00:16:56,474
(in video) Slightly
hard-hitting question.
265
00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:58,935
-Oh, that's the last one.
-Bill (in video): Whew!
266
00:16:58,977 --> 00:17:01,646
Debi:
Imagine what's
goin' on in his mind.
267
00:17:01,688 --> 00:17:04,190
-Bill:
No, you're not really.
-(coughing in video)
268
00:17:04,274 --> 00:17:07,110
Amanda (in video):
As far as younger girls,
269
00:17:07,152 --> 00:17:09,279
what about the girls
in the family?
270
00:17:09,654 --> 00:17:13,700
Bill:
No, I had no problem,
no problems with any of them.
271
00:17:13,783 --> 00:17:16,536
Except one time with Debi.
272
00:17:17,203 --> 00:17:20,540
I think she was 5 or 6.
273
00:17:20,623 --> 00:17:22,375
I took a bath with her.
274
00:17:23,543 --> 00:17:25,045
I know you don't.
275
00:17:25,128 --> 00:17:26,254
And I took a bath with her,
276
00:17:26,338 --> 00:17:28,423
-and I touched her
in the bathtub.
-Oh.
277
00:17:28,506 --> 00:17:31,301
-Listen to-- Oh.
-Bill: That was
as much as it went.
278
00:17:31,343 --> 00:17:34,262
She just loved the activity.
279
00:17:34,346 --> 00:17:35,722
-It's-- I was 5.
-Bill: And, uh, so,
280
00:17:35,805 --> 00:17:38,058
consequently, she didn't feel
it was wrong and I didn't.
281
00:17:38,141 --> 00:17:39,392
-I know it was wrong...
-Oh, my God.
282
00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:40,685
Bill:
...but I didn't--
I couldn't help it
283
00:17:40,769 --> 00:17:42,270
'cause she loved it
and I loved it, so...
284
00:17:42,354 --> 00:17:44,356
-Oh, my God.
-Bill: That's as far as--
285
00:17:45,607 --> 00:17:47,484
Bill: No.
286
00:17:47,942 --> 00:17:49,235
See how much
you're learnin' today?
287
00:17:49,319 --> 00:17:51,154
That's what you get
for comin' down here.
288
00:17:51,196 --> 00:17:52,864
That's when I was like...
289
00:17:52,947 --> 00:17:54,908
-I know.
-..."We gotta go."
290
00:17:55,784 --> 00:17:57,702
Bill:
But I'm being very
forward with you.
291
00:17:57,786 --> 00:17:59,871
I'm not, I'm not hiding.
292
00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:06,628
Debi:
The earliest memory, I was,
probably, 7 or 8 years old.
293
00:18:07,003 --> 00:18:11,466
All I remember is
me laying face down
294
00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:14,177
on one of his chiropractic
adjustment tables,
295
00:18:14,219 --> 00:18:18,223
and I felt him doing
something on my back,
296
00:18:18,306 --> 00:18:22,310
and I realized
that it was his penis,
297
00:18:22,394 --> 00:18:26,022
and he was
rubbin' it on my back.
298
00:18:26,064 --> 00:18:28,650
I never thought
in a million years
299
00:18:28,733 --> 00:18:30,777
not even to tell my mom.
300
00:18:32,278 --> 00:18:37,242
I don't know.
From a child's mind...
it was normal.
301
00:18:59,723 --> 00:19:01,474
♪♪
302
00:19:01,558 --> 00:19:04,602
I think that how I was raised
303
00:19:04,644 --> 00:19:10,442
definitely has given me
a skewed view of what a marriage
304
00:19:10,525 --> 00:19:12,569
or a relationship should be.
305
00:19:12,610 --> 00:19:13,528
I was so sheltered,
306
00:19:13,611 --> 00:19:16,448
never was allowed
to really date.
307
00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:19,492
And I definitely did not see
a healthy relationship
308
00:19:19,576 --> 00:19:23,371
with my mom and my dad,
so I had nothing to go by.
309
00:19:24,456 --> 00:19:28,126
And so,
I got married at 18.
310
00:19:28,793 --> 00:19:32,380
Ended up having
my daughter, Angie, at 20,
311
00:19:32,464 --> 00:19:36,801
and it was
a very abusive relationship.
312
00:19:36,843 --> 00:19:41,806
It was almost like
jumping out of the frying pan
into the fire.
313
00:19:44,976 --> 00:19:46,311
I had no other options,
314
00:19:46,353 --> 00:19:49,314
so I moved back in
with my parents.
315
00:19:49,356 --> 00:19:51,649
We lived there
for several years.
316
00:19:52,233 --> 00:19:55,111
Because of what
I experienced in my childhood,
317
00:19:55,153 --> 00:19:57,614
I just wanted to do
the right thing.
318
00:19:58,448 --> 00:20:02,619
And I really did trust my mom.
319
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:06,373
I wanted to prove to myself
that you can love a child
320
00:20:06,456 --> 00:20:08,875
without invading them.
321
00:20:09,334 --> 00:20:11,836
I think I wanted
to prove to myself
322
00:20:11,878 --> 00:20:14,339
that I could be a good mom.
323
00:20:14,506 --> 00:20:16,257
(cooing)
324
00:20:16,675 --> 00:20:18,301
Yeah!
325
00:20:20,845 --> 00:20:23,306
-Yeah!
-(cooing)
326
00:20:24,182 --> 00:20:25,975
(laughing)
327
00:20:34,818 --> 00:20:36,861
(dog barking)
328
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:44,661
Angie:
With Mom, ya know, I feel
bad about that relationship
329
00:20:44,703 --> 00:20:47,455
because I feel like
there isn't one.
330
00:20:47,539 --> 00:20:50,750
I-I feel really bad
how everything has gotten,
331
00:20:50,834 --> 00:20:52,043
and I can't explain it.
332
00:20:52,085 --> 00:20:53,461
Amanda:
Yeah.
333
00:20:53,545 --> 00:20:55,672
I've always known that I've
had Mom on a pedestal.
334
00:20:55,714 --> 00:20:58,508
-And because I have, I have
such anxiety around it...
-Yeah.
335
00:20:58,550 --> 00:21:00,135
...like, I'll be
carrying on my day,
336
00:21:00,218 --> 00:21:01,761
-wherever I am in the world.
-Mm-hmm, yeah.
337
00:21:01,845 --> 00:21:03,555
And it'll just hit me.
338
00:21:03,596 --> 00:21:05,557
"Oh, my God...
Did Mom fall down the stairs?
339
00:21:05,598 --> 00:21:07,183
Oh, my God, nobody's there.
Oh, my God. Oh, my God."
340
00:21:07,225 --> 00:21:08,560
-And I just, like, freak out.
-Yeah.
341
00:21:08,643 --> 00:21:10,061
-Right. Yeah.
-And I'll start crying.
And be like,
342
00:21:10,145 --> 00:21:11,896
"I have to get ahold of her,
but it's, like, 3:00 a.m."
343
00:21:11,980 --> 00:21:13,982
And I'm like, "Oh, my God,
what if she died in bed?"
344
00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:15,358
-Like...
-Oh, my goodness.
345
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,527
-...that's not healthy. No.
-Yeah, that's not healthy.
346
00:21:17,569 --> 00:21:19,738
With Mom, it was, (sighs)
347
00:21:19,821 --> 00:21:21,906
it was just, like,
you'd come home from New York,
348
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:23,658
you'd come home and you'd stay.
349
00:21:23,742 --> 00:21:26,244
And, instantly,
it was like the atmosphere...
350
00:21:26,327 --> 00:21:28,371
-I had the gloves on.
-...the atmosphere changed.
351
00:21:28,413 --> 00:21:30,749
It was, um, "Amanda mode."
That's what we'd say.
352
00:21:30,790 --> 00:21:32,459
-"Amanda mode."
-Mom's in "Amanda mode."
353
00:21:32,542 --> 00:21:35,295
-Like, you guys,
it's always tense.
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
354
00:21:35,378 --> 00:21:39,299
Um, there's, like, this,
this kind of air of tension
around it of, like--
355
00:21:39,382 --> 00:21:41,092
I think it's
very passive-aggressive.
356
00:21:41,176 --> 00:21:42,427
-Oh, yeah.
-Yeah.
357
00:21:42,469 --> 00:21:45,764
Angie:
That's what I had
to do to, to survive.
358
00:21:46,431 --> 00:21:49,809
Salesta:
Oh, isn't this cozy
and nice, Bill?
359
00:21:49,893 --> 00:21:50,685
Bill: Yep.
360
00:21:50,769 --> 00:21:53,146
Amanda:
I saw some old video footage
361
00:21:53,229 --> 00:21:56,566
-of, of you when
you had the hair thing.
-Angie: Oh, yes.
362
00:21:56,608 --> 00:21:58,443
Amanda:
And, like, I remember
being like,
363
00:21:58,485 --> 00:21:59,944
(childishly)
"What's wrong
with Angie's hair?"
364
00:22:00,028 --> 00:22:02,280
-(normal)
Like, just being a stupid kid.
-(both laughing)
365
00:22:02,364 --> 00:22:04,032
It's like,
"Why is Ange bald?"
366
00:22:04,115 --> 00:22:05,784
(laughing)
367
00:22:05,825 --> 00:22:08,620
-And--
-That is so embarrassing.
368
00:22:11,956 --> 00:22:14,000
(indistinct chatter)
369
00:22:15,126 --> 00:22:17,128
Amanda:
I don't think we've ever
actually talked about that.
370
00:22:17,212 --> 00:22:19,756
Angie:
It was-- Honestly, I mean,
for you to even bring it up--
371
00:22:19,798 --> 00:22:21,132
-it's really hard.
-Amanda: I'm sorry.
372
00:22:21,216 --> 00:22:22,967
-No, no, no! (laughs)
-I'm sorry.
373
00:22:23,009 --> 00:22:24,552
No, I'm just sayin' it's,
374
00:22:24,636 --> 00:22:27,764
it's not something that--
(tearful) I'm sorry.
375
00:22:27,806 --> 00:22:29,766
-(Angie laughs)
-Amanda: It's okay, I'm sorry.
376
00:22:29,808 --> 00:22:33,228
-I can't put it back in,
though. I'm sorry.
-No, it's okay, it's okay.
377
00:22:33,311 --> 00:22:35,397
These-- This is part
of the healing, ya know?
378
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,649
-Amanda: Mm-hmm.
-(Angie sniffles)
379
00:22:37,691 --> 00:22:42,404
It was such a shameful,
embarrassing thing
380
00:22:42,487 --> 00:22:44,155
that I did,
and it was like--
381
00:22:44,239 --> 00:22:48,243
Oh, my gosh,
it made me so ugly.
382
00:22:48,326 --> 00:22:51,079
But I just hated, like--
383
00:22:51,496 --> 00:22:54,165
Ya know, it made
my self-esteem even worse.
384
00:22:54,249 --> 00:22:55,375
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
385
00:22:55,458 --> 00:22:57,877
(video game beeping)
386
00:22:59,004 --> 00:23:03,800
Part of Grandpa's video
is you in our house,
387
00:23:03,842 --> 00:23:06,177
and you're sittin'
and playin' video games,
388
00:23:06,261 --> 00:23:10,098
and he's zoomin'
in and out of your head.
389
00:23:10,181 --> 00:23:12,851
But I'm just kinda like,
"What prompted him
to do that?"
390
00:23:12,892 --> 00:23:14,686
-Angie: Yeah.
-Amanda: Yeah.
Did he know that
391
00:23:14,728 --> 00:23:18,189
-that was a sign
of what he had done?
-Angie: I'm sure.
392
00:23:18,773 --> 00:23:23,153
I don't just blame Grandpa.
I, I blame Mom as well.
393
00:23:23,194 --> 00:23:27,198
She subjected... her daughter,
394
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,451
put her right in
395
00:23:29,534 --> 00:23:31,911
with the very person
that hurt her the worst.
396
00:23:31,995 --> 00:23:33,121
Amanda:
Mom put you...
397
00:23:33,204 --> 00:23:35,498
-Put me right into-- Yeah.
-...right in Grandpa's hands.
398
00:23:35,540 --> 00:23:37,167
Like, we're gonna
live with them,
399
00:23:37,208 --> 00:23:39,044
and not only that, but
400
00:23:39,085 --> 00:23:42,964
-I'm gonna let him
and, ya know, Grandma...
-Mm-hmm.
401
00:23:43,048 --> 00:23:45,550
...watch my daughter
while I go to work,
402
00:23:45,633 --> 00:23:48,720
or go on dates, or whatever.
403
00:23:51,348 --> 00:23:53,600
Bill (in video):
Go, Angie!
404
00:23:53,683 --> 00:23:56,936
Higher... higher!
405
00:23:58,104 --> 00:23:59,230
Higher!
406
00:23:59,314 --> 00:24:00,899
Angie: Ya know,
even as sisters,
407
00:24:00,982 --> 00:24:03,193
the whole 10 years
before you were born,
408
00:24:03,234 --> 00:24:06,905
there was a lot that happened
to me that you didn't know.
409
00:24:08,281 --> 00:24:11,618
I went to visit Grandpa
and Grandma when I was 9.
410
00:24:11,701 --> 00:24:14,579
Mom flew me out there
by myself,
411
00:24:14,621 --> 00:24:17,374
and I stayed with them
for a full month
412
00:24:17,415 --> 00:24:19,250
in their motorhome.
413
00:24:19,834 --> 00:24:21,753
Stuff happened
while I was there.
414
00:24:21,795 --> 00:24:23,755
He was, like, touchy-feely.
415
00:24:23,838 --> 00:24:27,509
He'd say,
"This is just a secret thing
between you and I."
416
00:24:27,592 --> 00:24:30,762
(uneasy music playing)
417
00:24:30,804 --> 00:24:35,475
So we were traveling
from one campsite to the next,
418
00:24:35,558 --> 00:24:37,435
and we happened
to stop at a place
419
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:39,562
where they were
selling motorhomes.
420
00:24:39,604 --> 00:24:42,899
And I went into the bathroom.
421
00:24:42,941 --> 00:24:46,903
For whatever reason,
opened up the cabinet
422
00:24:46,945 --> 00:24:52,701
and there was a little,
tiny lipstick under there,
423
00:24:52,784 --> 00:24:55,370
and whatever possessed me,
424
00:24:55,453 --> 00:24:58,164
or I thought to do this,
I took the lipstick,
425
00:24:58,248 --> 00:25:04,129
and I wrote
in really big letters
across the mirror, "Sex,"
426
00:25:04,212 --> 00:25:05,755
in red lipstick.
427
00:25:08,091 --> 00:25:10,468
And went back out,
428
00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:13,555
and just stood there
like nothing happened.
429
00:25:14,556 --> 00:25:17,183
And Grandma
just pulled me aside
430
00:25:17,267 --> 00:25:21,104
and asked me if I had written
on the bathroom mirror.
431
00:25:21,146 --> 00:25:24,524
And I said, "Yep."
And that was that.
432
00:25:24,607 --> 00:25:27,402
She didn't ask me
433
00:25:27,485 --> 00:25:29,529
why I did it,
434
00:25:29,612 --> 00:25:33,825
but I felt like
I was trying to tell the world,
435
00:25:33,867 --> 00:25:35,994
and nobody was listening.
436
00:25:36,036 --> 00:25:38,121
♪♪
437
00:25:42,917 --> 00:25:47,047
Mom and Grandma knew,
they knew this was going on,
438
00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:50,133
but there was
never anything said.
439
00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,720
It was almost
as though he was protected.
440
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:56,890
I dealt with it
the same way
441
00:25:56,973 --> 00:26:00,602
that the rest of the family
was dealing with it.
442
00:26:00,685 --> 00:26:02,937
I bottled it up.
443
00:26:04,814 --> 00:26:06,900
♪♪
444
00:26:13,156 --> 00:26:16,659
♪♪
445
00:26:24,542 --> 00:26:26,795
(music fades out)
446
00:26:34,094 --> 00:26:37,722
Amanda:
I have a question for you.
If you (laughs) if you...
447
00:26:38,515 --> 00:26:42,060
have one or two words
to describe our family,
448
00:26:42,102 --> 00:26:43,895
what would they be?
449
00:26:45,021 --> 00:26:49,442
-Dysfunction-palooza.
-(both laughing)
450
00:26:49,734 --> 00:26:51,403
-Yeah.
-Hm.
451
00:26:51,486 --> 00:26:54,114
Paul Flickinger:
When I was really young,
Dad had a, a table.
452
00:26:54,197 --> 00:26:56,074
-It was like
an adjustment table...
-Mm-hmm.
453
00:26:56,157 --> 00:26:58,743
...and we picked it up
to take it out,
454
00:26:58,827 --> 00:27:02,914
and out fell
of it a toy, um...
455
00:27:03,123 --> 00:27:06,793
Like plastic dildo...
with a sock.
456
00:27:06,876 --> 00:27:09,337
That was in--
It was tucked inside a sock.
457
00:27:09,421 --> 00:27:12,799
-And I looked at it, and I knew
what it was immediately.
-Mm-hmm.
458
00:27:12,882 --> 00:27:15,927
And he just picked it up,
and put it in his pocket.
459
00:27:15,969 --> 00:27:19,806
When you grow up
in a dysfunctional
environment like that,
460
00:27:19,889 --> 00:27:21,850
you don't know th-that it is
461
00:27:21,933 --> 00:27:23,643
-because that's all you know.
-Mm-hmm.
462
00:27:23,727 --> 00:27:25,854
Like, how did you feel
when you were younger?
463
00:27:25,937 --> 00:27:27,939
-I mean, even t--
How did you manage that?
-How can ya feel?
464
00:27:28,023 --> 00:27:29,983
-I don't know how you feel.
-Hm.
465
00:27:30,066 --> 00:27:32,986
It's just like--
I guess it's like,
466
00:27:33,069 --> 00:27:35,864
"This is happening
in front of me.
467
00:27:38,533 --> 00:27:39,826
I don't know what
to do about it."
468
00:27:39,909 --> 00:27:41,786
-Yeah.
-'Cause it's not
really my place.
469
00:27:41,828 --> 00:27:45,457
-I don't know...
what it is.
-Mm-hmm.
470
00:27:46,624 --> 00:27:49,878
(uneasy music playing)
471
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:55,133
Paul:
But I felt, for a long time,
that the best thing
472
00:27:55,216 --> 00:27:57,802
that could've happened
to us, as a family,
473
00:27:58,261 --> 00:28:01,222
would've been
if we had been taken out
474
00:28:01,264 --> 00:28:04,351
by a firing squad in 1975.
475
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,607
Nothing terrible
had happened.
476
00:28:10,648 --> 00:28:12,609
We were still a unit.
477
00:28:13,068 --> 00:28:16,112
We even sang in church
as a family together.
478
00:28:16,154 --> 00:28:19,074
And after we sang,
the, the preacher took us up
479
00:28:19,157 --> 00:28:22,202
and said,
"Now look at this family."
480
00:28:22,285 --> 00:28:23,995
That was our best.
481
00:28:24,454 --> 00:28:28,917
From there,
it just obliterated to where
there's nothing left.
482
00:28:32,003 --> 00:28:34,339
Ya know, we can all
point blame at each other,
483
00:28:34,422 --> 00:28:36,174
we can all blame Dad.
484
00:28:36,841 --> 00:28:39,844
None of us would
ever dare blame Mom.
485
00:28:41,846 --> 00:28:44,808
Did Grandma ever
open up with you about it?
486
00:28:44,849 --> 00:28:46,309
About how she felt?
487
00:28:47,143 --> 00:28:49,187
♪♪
488
00:28:52,524 --> 00:28:55,860
Paul:
There was this one time
when I was real little.
489
00:28:55,902 --> 00:28:57,779
It was just
a typical night.
490
00:28:57,862 --> 00:28:59,322
And the bathroom door
was open,
491
00:28:59,364 --> 00:29:01,825
so I kind of peeked my eye
into that little crack,
492
00:29:01,866 --> 00:29:04,494
and I looked and I saw her
493
00:29:04,536 --> 00:29:06,329
standing in front
of the mirror
494
00:29:06,371 --> 00:29:08,206
with a razor blade.
495
00:29:08,248 --> 00:29:11,209
And she was just kinda
chopping at her hair,
496
00:29:11,292 --> 00:29:16,006
and crying,
and her hands were bleeding.
497
00:29:16,047 --> 00:29:18,299
So, I let the door
go open a little bit,
498
00:29:18,383 --> 00:29:20,927
and I was like,
"Mom, please don't do that."
499
00:29:21,011 --> 00:29:24,556
And she turned, and she was
shocked that I caught her,
500
00:29:24,639 --> 00:29:27,642
and she bandaged
up her fingers,
and she cleaned up,
501
00:29:27,726 --> 00:29:29,853
and she hugged me,
and...
502
00:29:29,894 --> 00:29:32,397
she felt like
she had failed us.
503
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,443
I know that that
was somethin' that
she carried with her.
504
00:29:37,777 --> 00:29:40,071
♪♪
505
00:29:47,871 --> 00:29:50,915
We're less of a family
than we've ever been.
506
00:29:51,374 --> 00:29:56,463
And God forbid
that the fallout just
continues to grow.
507
00:29:56,546 --> 00:29:58,798
♪♪
508
00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:18,193
Bill (in video):
Hello, darling.
509
00:30:19,069 --> 00:30:22,530
-Debi (in video):
Hi, how are ya?
-Bill: Hi. I'm great.
510
00:30:22,614 --> 00:30:23,823
How are you?
Hello, gorgeous.
511
00:30:23,907 --> 00:30:25,658
Bill:
Then your precious,
wonderful mother
512
00:30:25,742 --> 00:30:28,078
put this together.
513
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:29,454
So...
514
00:30:30,038 --> 00:30:32,624
-There she is.
-Debi: She was so pretty.
515
00:30:32,665 --> 00:30:35,502
Bill:
She was. She was a sweet doll.
516
00:30:35,585 --> 00:30:38,838
Amanda:
Can you share some
memories of Grandma?
517
00:30:38,922 --> 00:30:40,757
Like, how did you guys meet?
518
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:41,966
Bill:
We met at church.
519
00:30:42,008 --> 00:30:44,844
They had a Bible study
on a Wednesday night.
520
00:30:44,928 --> 00:30:46,888
We started dating,
and so, we were dating
521
00:30:46,971 --> 00:30:48,515
for about, uh, three months,
522
00:30:48,598 --> 00:30:51,184
and we--
then we got engaged.
523
00:30:52,936 --> 00:30:55,605
(film projector rattling)
524
00:30:55,647 --> 00:30:58,942
(light music playing)
525
00:31:03,863 --> 00:31:08,076
Oh, she was so precious.
I mean, so precious.
526
00:31:08,284 --> 00:31:10,704
She was great with the kids.
527
00:31:11,246 --> 00:31:13,498
She couldn't
do anything wrong.
528
00:31:14,082 --> 00:31:17,335
She was such
a marvelous, wonderful woman.
529
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:22,882
♪♪
530
00:31:24,843 --> 00:31:28,096
Amanda:
What about your life
before then?
531
00:31:28,179 --> 00:31:30,306
What was it like growing up?
532
00:31:30,348 --> 00:31:31,599
Bill: Hm.
533
00:31:32,392 --> 00:31:35,562
Well, I don't know where
I would even start with that.
534
00:31:35,645 --> 00:31:36,855
Um...
535
00:31:37,188 --> 00:31:41,192
my mom was this marvelous,
wonderful, great woman.
536
00:31:41,526 --> 00:31:43,695
She was fantastic.
537
00:31:43,737 --> 00:31:45,196
Dad,
he was always a busy guy.
538
00:31:45,238 --> 00:31:47,115
He worked at Zippo lighters.
539
00:31:47,198 --> 00:31:51,494
And, of course, he loved
the girls there, too.
540
00:31:51,536 --> 00:31:54,622
He went out with quite
a few of the women, so.
541
00:31:54,706 --> 00:31:57,000
He'd come home
with lipstick all over
his face,
542
00:31:57,042 --> 00:31:59,586
and his clothes off,
or his collars and stuff
543
00:31:59,669 --> 00:32:01,755
'cause you know darn well
he was smoochin' up
544
00:32:01,838 --> 00:32:04,382
with the women
at Zippo parties.
545
00:32:06,051 --> 00:32:07,719
Although,
Mom didn't complain any.
546
00:32:07,761 --> 00:32:11,556
If she, she did, she didn't
do it in front of me, but.
547
00:32:13,391 --> 00:32:15,727
But anyway,
that's beside the point.
548
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:17,979
He and I were not very close.
549
00:32:18,063 --> 00:32:21,232
He wanted a girl so bad,
he didn't want a boy.
550
00:32:21,274 --> 00:32:22,734
And if I did something
outta line,
551
00:32:22,776 --> 00:32:24,611
I got a beating for it.
552
00:32:24,694 --> 00:32:26,446
It was a tough time.
553
00:32:27,739 --> 00:32:30,325
Amanda:
Um... this--
554
00:32:30,408 --> 00:32:33,578
You can answer
this if you want.
I'm just curious.
555
00:32:33,661 --> 00:32:36,164
Curiosity killed the cat.
556
00:32:36,247 --> 00:32:38,875
-That's right.
-Amanda: Um...
557
00:32:38,917 --> 00:32:41,044
as you were growing up,
558
00:32:41,086 --> 00:32:44,422
did your attraction
stay with children?
559
00:32:44,464 --> 00:32:46,049
Yeah, pretty much.
560
00:32:46,091 --> 00:32:48,885
I think most of my life
it did, yes.
561
00:32:48,927 --> 00:32:51,221
♪♪
562
00:33:10,949 --> 00:33:14,452
You know, I-I just couldn't
seem to control it too much.
563
00:33:14,536 --> 00:33:16,621
It just went that way.
564
00:33:19,290 --> 00:33:23,003
(tense, energetic music playing)
565
00:33:34,305 --> 00:33:36,057
Amanda:
Was there anybody
that you ever
566
00:33:36,141 --> 00:33:37,475
felt like you could
talk to about it?
567
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:38,852
Did you ever open up?
568
00:33:38,935 --> 00:33:41,563
(sighs)
I wished I could've.
569
00:33:41,646 --> 00:33:44,274
I really did wish--
I-I wanted to talk to somebody,
570
00:33:44,315 --> 00:33:47,610
but I didn't know
who I could really talk to.
571
00:33:48,820 --> 00:33:51,072
♪♪
572
00:33:56,411 --> 00:33:58,496
The girls were
so special to me.
573
00:33:58,705 --> 00:34:02,500
The girls were always so,
so warm and nice, ya know?
574
00:34:03,418 --> 00:34:07,839
So, I was explaining to (bleep)
of how babies came about.
575
00:34:07,881 --> 00:34:10,467
And, uh, we more or less
576
00:34:10,508 --> 00:34:13,386
experimented that
at that point.
577
00:34:13,470 --> 00:34:15,513
♪♪
578
00:34:32,822 --> 00:34:35,658
And, of course, naturally,
she's a little bit--
579
00:34:35,700 --> 00:34:39,871
Uh, just... feeling with her
and so forth.
580
00:34:39,954 --> 00:34:42,582
And then she would lay
on top of me.
581
00:34:42,665 --> 00:34:44,709
♪♪
582
00:34:54,386 --> 00:34:57,639
(unsettling music playing)
583
00:35:11,027 --> 00:35:13,446
(music fades out)
584
00:35:13,738 --> 00:35:16,533
(Amanda sighs, sniffles)
585
00:35:16,574 --> 00:35:21,996
Because of all this...
I've been thinking a lot about,
586
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,290
which I-I usually don't.
587
00:35:24,374 --> 00:35:30,338
I feel like when I think about,
you know, my own experience
588
00:35:30,422 --> 00:35:33,341
being raped by--
(sniffles)
589
00:35:33,425 --> 00:35:36,386
It was around
nine years ago,
and--
590
00:35:36,428 --> 00:35:39,723
by my friend's boyfriend
at the time.
591
00:35:40,932 --> 00:35:42,934
And
592
00:35:43,018 --> 00:35:44,269
it was a mess, it was a mess.
593
00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:47,188
It was--
Took me years to even, like,
594
00:35:47,272 --> 00:35:49,858
use the "R word," and...
595
00:35:52,152 --> 00:35:54,446
(deep breath)
596
00:35:56,156 --> 00:35:59,325
I do feel like I've
dealt very well with it,
597
00:35:59,409 --> 00:36:00,952
but, occasionally,
it crops its head up,
598
00:36:01,036 --> 00:36:04,456
and what it is
for me is just that
599
00:36:05,331 --> 00:36:09,461
the guy who did it
and my friend,
who was dating him,
600
00:36:09,502 --> 00:36:13,715
who victim-blamed me
when I told her about it, um...
601
00:36:13,798 --> 00:36:17,761
It's just knowing
that they don't-- (sniffles)
602
00:36:21,973 --> 00:36:23,975
(trills lips) Fuck.
603
00:36:24,017 --> 00:36:26,478
It's just knowing that...
604
00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:29,814
they do not think that
they did anything wrong.
605
00:36:30,732 --> 00:36:33,943
What's still missing is, is
just, just that acknowledgment,
606
00:36:33,985 --> 00:36:39,157
ya know, of...
of, like, it happened,
607
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,284
ya know, from the people
that were involved.
608
00:36:41,326 --> 00:36:45,997
It, it fucking happened,
and not having that,
609
00:36:46,081 --> 00:36:48,208
it's just the gift
that keeps on giving.
610
00:36:48,291 --> 00:36:50,043
Truly. (sniffles)
611
00:36:50,126 --> 00:36:53,380
(solemn music playing)
612
00:36:57,467 --> 00:36:59,302
It feels very crystal clear
to me right now
613
00:36:59,344 --> 00:37:01,262
why I'm making this film.
614
00:37:01,346 --> 00:37:03,264
Just that acknowledgment.
615
00:37:04,099 --> 00:37:07,936
I don't think that
I'm gonna receive that closure
for my own assault,
616
00:37:08,019 --> 00:37:12,857
but if I can give that to...
the women that suffered
617
00:37:12,941 --> 00:37:15,568
at the hands
of my grandfather,
618
00:37:15,652 --> 00:37:19,155
if I can be the one
to step forward,
619
00:37:19,197 --> 00:37:20,407
and on the record, say,
620
00:37:20,490 --> 00:37:23,785
"He did this.
You can't fucking deny it."
621
00:37:23,868 --> 00:37:27,163
If it gives them
the peace of mind
of, of knowing
622
00:37:27,205 --> 00:37:30,375
that their pain
is acknowledged,
623
00:37:30,458 --> 00:37:32,293
and that the work they've
had to do over the years,
624
00:37:32,335 --> 00:37:36,297
and that weight
that they've had to carry,
(sniffles)
625
00:37:36,381 --> 00:37:38,049
is acknowledged, then...
626
00:37:38,842 --> 00:37:41,886
it's the very fuckin'
least that I can do
627
00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:45,640
as the granddaughter
of this piece of shit.
628
00:37:46,683 --> 00:37:48,435
(sniffles)
629
00:37:50,228 --> 00:37:53,481
(tense music playing)
630
00:37:57,110 --> 00:37:59,404
(music softens)
631
00:38:04,075 --> 00:38:10,540
These are letters
for people that Grandpa
may have impacted.
632
00:38:12,917 --> 00:38:15,754
"Dear Blank,
I'm writing to you
as you may have been
633
00:38:15,837 --> 00:38:18,048
"a past patient
of William Flickinger,
634
00:38:18,089 --> 00:38:19,257
"based on his paperwork.
635
00:38:19,341 --> 00:38:20,633
"I discovered
that he had abused
636
00:38:20,717 --> 00:38:22,218
"scores of girls
and young women,
637
00:38:22,302 --> 00:38:24,262
"and I'm in the process
of seeking accountability
638
00:38:24,304 --> 00:38:25,597
"for my grandfather's actions,
639
00:38:25,638 --> 00:38:27,474
"and helping those
who have been abused by him
640
00:38:27,557 --> 00:38:30,977
feel less afraid to speak out
if they so choose."
641
00:38:32,645 --> 00:38:34,439
I feel very nervous doing this.
642
00:38:34,481 --> 00:38:36,858
Just feel like
every one of these is
643
00:38:36,941 --> 00:38:40,445
dropping a little bomb
in these people's lives.
644
00:38:41,780 --> 00:38:44,616
"If this message
isn't relevant to you,
please disregard.
645
00:38:44,657 --> 00:38:47,452
"If it is relevant,
we deeply apologize
on behalf of our family
646
00:38:47,535 --> 00:38:50,955
for what he put you
or your loved ones through."
647
00:38:53,416 --> 00:38:56,086
Have you talked
to any of the people
648
00:38:56,127 --> 00:38:57,879
that you may have hurt?
649
00:38:57,962 --> 00:39:00,090
And maybe apologized?
650
00:39:00,131 --> 00:39:02,175
That has not materialized.
651
00:39:02,258 --> 00:39:04,260
Now, her brother,
652
00:39:04,302 --> 00:39:08,223
has been the instigator
to try and do that.
653
00:39:08,306 --> 00:39:09,265
Amanda:
Who?
654
00:39:09,307 --> 00:39:10,392
Paul.
655
00:39:10,892 --> 00:39:12,727
That I should go.
I should write letters,
656
00:39:12,811 --> 00:39:15,563
or I should go
and talk to these people.
657
00:39:15,647 --> 00:39:18,775
And to a point,
I can understand what
he's comin' from.
658
00:39:18,817 --> 00:39:21,820
But I haven't got
the guts to do that.
659
00:39:21,861 --> 00:39:23,822
Because if this opened up
a can of worms,
660
00:39:23,905 --> 00:39:26,950
well then, are they gonna
decide to take this to court
661
00:39:26,991 --> 00:39:30,495
and send me to prison
for the rest of my life?
662
00:39:31,413 --> 00:39:33,498
And that's what could happen.
663
00:39:33,915 --> 00:39:36,793
Amanda:
But wouldn't that
just be a consequence?
664
00:39:36,835 --> 00:39:38,920
♪♪
665
00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:53,935
♪♪
666
00:40:01,693 --> 00:40:03,570
Bonnie (over computer):
When I have...
667
00:40:03,653 --> 00:40:05,530
thoughts about
your grandfather,
668
00:40:05,613 --> 00:40:08,324
he's still that big,
bad boogeyman
669
00:40:08,366 --> 00:40:10,952
in my
childhood mind.
670
00:40:11,369 --> 00:40:14,122
This started when
I was 4 years old
671
00:40:14,205 --> 00:40:16,249
at Herd Chiropractic.
672
00:40:16,332 --> 00:40:18,835
I was, I was, I was little.
673
00:40:18,877 --> 00:40:19,669
Mm-hmm.
674
00:40:19,711 --> 00:40:23,006
So, he would see us either
675
00:40:23,048 --> 00:40:24,549
at his chiropractic office,
676
00:40:24,591 --> 00:40:28,219
which he ended up having
my mom work for him,
677
00:40:28,261 --> 00:40:30,430
which brought us in more.
678
00:40:30,805 --> 00:40:35,101
He got so comfortable
doing what he was doing to me
679
00:40:35,185 --> 00:40:38,063
that he would do it in front
of my younger siblings.
680
00:40:38,104 --> 00:40:39,064
Mm-hmm.
681
00:40:39,147 --> 00:40:40,523
And I remember the one time,
682
00:40:40,565 --> 00:40:42,859
he tried to make it seem
like it was a normal exam...
683
00:40:42,901 --> 00:40:44,235
-Mm-hmm.
-...where I had to take
684
00:40:44,319 --> 00:40:45,904
my pants down
or pull my dress up,
685
00:40:45,945 --> 00:40:47,864
and, and, um,
686
00:40:47,906 --> 00:40:49,407
I was crying,
and I was like,
687
00:40:49,491 --> 00:40:50,950
"Please, can I pull
my pants up, please?"
688
00:40:51,034 --> 00:40:53,745
-I was begging him,
just bawling.
-Mm-hmm.
689
00:40:53,828 --> 00:40:56,289
-I was so embarrassed, um...
-(deep inhale)
690
00:40:56,373 --> 00:40:58,249
So, all I remember
is looking over,
691
00:40:58,291 --> 00:40:59,417
and Matthew had come over,
692
00:40:59,501 --> 00:41:01,628
and started
beating on his leg,
693
00:41:01,711 --> 00:41:03,922
-"Leave my sister alone,
leave my sister alone!"
-Mm.
694
00:41:03,963 --> 00:41:04,798
Ya know?
695
00:41:04,881 --> 00:41:06,883
And he grabbed him
by his throat,
696
00:41:06,925 --> 00:41:10,261
picked him up,
and put him
back in the chair,
697
00:41:10,345 --> 00:41:12,472
and told him not to move.
698
00:41:14,015 --> 00:41:16,101
♪♪
699
00:41:22,315 --> 00:41:24,401
And nobody knew.
700
00:41:25,235 --> 00:41:29,656
And I'm thinking,
"My mom is in the next
room with Lois."
701
00:41:29,739 --> 00:41:31,491
-Amanda: Grandma.
-So, for a long time--
702
00:41:31,574 --> 00:41:36,413
Yeah. How can they not
bust through that door
and help me?
703
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,916
I didn't necessarily
hold a grudge against
your grandmother,
704
00:41:39,958 --> 00:41:44,254
but I was like,
"How could she not
have known?"
705
00:41:45,714 --> 00:41:49,551
Her name is not Lois.
Did you know that?
706
00:41:49,634 --> 00:41:52,512
-Bonnie: No!
-Her name is Salesta,
707
00:41:52,595 --> 00:41:54,806
and he hated her name so much
708
00:41:54,889 --> 00:41:57,058
that he had
everyone call her Lois
709
00:41:57,142 --> 00:42:00,603
and made her go by Lois.
710
00:42:00,645 --> 00:42:02,814
I'd love to say that
I'm shocked, but I'm not.
711
00:42:02,856 --> 00:42:04,983
So her name is Salesta.
(chuckles)
712
00:42:05,025 --> 00:42:08,319
-Thank you for that. Wow.
-Yeah.
713
00:42:09,988 --> 00:42:12,323
Bonnie:
After everything he did,
714
00:42:12,407 --> 00:42:16,453
not only to me,
but to so many others,
715
00:42:16,494 --> 00:42:19,998
I've realized it's not
my secret to keep.
716
00:42:20,081 --> 00:42:21,499
It was his.
717
00:42:21,541 --> 00:42:23,835
♪♪
718
00:42:26,171 --> 00:42:29,007
Everyone has always
said you have to forgive,
719
00:42:29,090 --> 00:42:30,675
forgive or you're
gonna burn in hell.
720
00:42:30,717 --> 00:42:33,553
Fuck the word "forgive."
I hate it.
721
00:42:33,636 --> 00:42:36,014
What I need to do in my life
722
00:42:36,056 --> 00:42:38,600
to get past
the emotional barriers
723
00:42:38,641 --> 00:42:42,937
that are holding me back
at 4 years old, 6 years old,
724
00:42:43,021 --> 00:42:44,856
being in a courtroom
having to face him
725
00:42:44,898 --> 00:42:47,484
while he sat there like this,
726
00:42:47,525 --> 00:42:49,778
staring at me the whole time.
727
00:42:49,861 --> 00:42:53,865
I would just love,
in my lifetime,
to hear him say,
728
00:42:54,616 --> 00:42:56,576
-"I hurt you."
-Mm-hmm.
729
00:42:56,659 --> 00:42:58,745
"And I had
no right to do that.
730
00:42:58,828 --> 00:43:01,164
And I acknowledge
that I hurt you."
731
00:43:01,206 --> 00:43:04,292
(pensive music playing)
732
00:43:26,898 --> 00:43:28,692
♪♪
733
00:43:28,733 --> 00:43:31,736
(ambient street noise)
734
00:43:36,783 --> 00:43:38,743
Amanda:
So, I've been trying
to make sense of
735
00:43:38,827 --> 00:43:40,286
a lot of things,
the timeline,
736
00:43:40,370 --> 00:43:43,331
I've even been talking
to a victim from your clinic.
737
00:43:43,415 --> 00:43:45,917
But back in 1979,
738
00:43:46,001 --> 00:43:48,420
I believe you took Bill to court
739
00:43:48,503 --> 00:43:51,089
for a lot of sexual misconduct
740
00:43:51,172 --> 00:43:54,467
that happened towards
your employees and patients.
741
00:43:54,551 --> 00:44:00,515
So, I-I'm curious
if you know why he wanted
to come here, to Harrisburg?
742
00:44:00,598 --> 00:44:02,600
I think things were
difficult for him there.
743
00:44:02,684 --> 00:44:04,769
I think he was
having difficulty there.
744
00:44:04,853 --> 00:44:06,396
-Amanda: Up in Bradford?
-Yes.
745
00:44:06,438 --> 00:44:08,898
Amanda:
Okay, but you-- they--
there wasn't any information
746
00:44:08,940 --> 00:44:11,151
about the, the nature
of what was going on?
747
00:44:11,234 --> 00:44:13,236
Not at that-- Well...
748
00:44:14,571 --> 00:44:16,823
(Barbara clears throat)
749
00:44:18,783 --> 00:44:20,827
I may have
contacted his pastor,
750
00:44:20,910 --> 00:44:23,288
and there may have been
that, you know, "Be cautious,"
751
00:44:23,371 --> 00:44:24,664
and things like that around.
752
00:44:24,748 --> 00:44:26,207
-There was a warning.
-Yeah, I think there was
753
00:44:26,291 --> 00:44:28,877
a warning given to us that
there could be some problem,
754
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,796
but I... I may have
just brushed that aside,
755
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,007
and, and said I'd be careful.
756
00:44:34,090 --> 00:44:36,551
-We were deceived to believe.
-Well, well--
757
00:44:36,634 --> 00:44:38,803
-We, we were deceived.
-We, we had thought--
Before he came down,
758
00:44:38,845 --> 00:44:41,181
we had thought he turned,
you know, new leaf, that he--
759
00:44:41,264 --> 00:44:44,100
-We didn't, didn't know that--
-I didn't know what happened
up there.
760
00:44:44,142 --> 00:44:46,019
Did you know what happened?
I didn't know.
761
00:44:46,102 --> 00:44:47,854
No, we knew there
was problems, that's all.
762
00:44:47,937 --> 00:44:49,606
Well, I didn't know
what the problems were.
763
00:44:49,647 --> 00:44:51,941
I was ignorant to that fact.
764
00:44:52,317 --> 00:44:53,234
But if I would've known,
765
00:44:53,318 --> 00:44:55,153
he would've never
been in our office.
766
00:44:55,236 --> 00:44:56,029
Ever.
767
00:44:56,112 --> 00:44:58,448
Amanda:
When did you first recognize
768
00:44:58,490 --> 00:45:00,200
that something was wrong?
769
00:45:00,283 --> 00:45:03,787
Jack Herd:
Well, apparently, a, a young
girl had come into the office.
770
00:45:03,828 --> 00:45:05,997
This girl was 13 years old.
771
00:45:06,039 --> 00:45:08,708
And he asked,
he says, "Come on back,
I'll check your spine."
772
00:45:08,792 --> 00:45:11,169
And he had her take
her blouse off and her bra off.
773
00:45:11,252 --> 00:45:13,880
It was another patient, too,
I thought was involved.
774
00:45:13,963 --> 00:45:15,298
Jack:
Well, we're talkin'
about this right now.
775
00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:17,550
But I thought it was
another patient was involved
776
00:45:17,634 --> 00:45:20,261
who-- that really
made you so upset.
777
00:45:20,345 --> 00:45:24,516
I don't know,
but then just shortly after
that time, Barb and I,
778
00:45:24,557 --> 00:45:28,228
we had a housekeeper,
and, uh, she was with the kids.
779
00:45:28,311 --> 00:45:31,314
She went down the basement,
and Bill was laying on top
780
00:45:31,356 --> 00:45:32,816
of our 12-year-old girl.
781
00:45:32,857 --> 00:45:37,195
-I just couldn't sleep.
I was so angry...
-Jack: Oh, well, absolutely.
782
00:45:37,237 --> 00:45:39,864
...that there could be
a possibility that somebody
783
00:45:39,948 --> 00:45:41,866
would harm one of my children,
784
00:45:41,908 --> 00:45:45,620
or, or destroy our good name.
785
00:45:45,704 --> 00:45:47,163
It really made me angry.
786
00:45:47,205 --> 00:45:50,667
(fast-paced,
tense music playing)
787
00:45:51,251 --> 00:45:54,045
I called an attorney,
and he came in,
and brought Bill in,
788
00:45:54,087 --> 00:45:56,214
and we terminated him
right then.
789
00:45:56,256 --> 00:45:59,217
-It probably was the next day.
-Oh, no, on the spot.
790
00:46:01,386 --> 00:46:05,557
Jack:
And then filed a complaint
with the Chiropractic Board.
791
00:46:05,598 --> 00:46:07,225
And they had a hearing,
792
00:46:07,267 --> 00:46:10,687
and he had many, many people
come and defend him at that.
793
00:46:10,729 --> 00:46:12,731
That caused a lot of
tension between...
794
00:46:12,814 --> 00:46:15,233
-Our friends.
-Jack: ...our family
and our friends like that.
795
00:46:15,316 --> 00:46:17,902
Yeah, we weren't
trying to destroy this man.
796
00:46:17,944 --> 00:46:20,238
He was destroying himself.
797
00:46:20,321 --> 00:46:22,407
♪♪
798
00:46:23,408 --> 00:46:26,369
Jack:
They did take his license
at that point.
799
00:46:29,122 --> 00:46:30,790
Barbara Herd:
And then life went on,
800
00:46:30,874 --> 00:46:33,001
except emotionally
getting over it.
801
00:46:33,084 --> 00:46:35,086
I came to the place
where I said--
802
00:46:35,170 --> 00:46:37,297
I just-- I told God,
"I give it to you.
803
00:46:37,380 --> 00:46:40,383
Lord, I-I can't carry it.
It's too heavy for me."
804
00:46:42,510 --> 00:46:44,637
Amanda:
So he lost his license,
but he did not go to prison.
805
00:46:44,721 --> 00:46:49,059
What do you guys think would've
been the ideal situation?
806
00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:52,395
-(Barbara chuckles)
-Jack: Well, I don't know, uh...
807
00:46:52,437 --> 00:46:55,273
Prison. I don't, I don't--
I d-- I simply don't know.
808
00:46:55,315 --> 00:46:58,443
My baser nature is I wanted
to get a gun and shoot him.
809
00:46:58,485 --> 00:47:00,111
(laughs)
810
00:47:00,153 --> 00:47:02,238
♪♪
811
00:47:04,574 --> 00:47:07,619
Amanda:
The case with the Herds
was one of a few
812
00:47:07,660 --> 00:47:09,329
that he was involved with.
813
00:47:09,621 --> 00:47:14,209
And ultimately,
none of them resulted
in anything
814
00:47:14,292 --> 00:47:18,004
that would leave
a mark on his record.
815
00:47:18,088 --> 00:47:21,841
It just feels like
the whole system failed.
816
00:47:22,342 --> 00:47:26,304
There was nothing to stop him
from crossing state lines
817
00:47:26,388 --> 00:47:29,349
and getting
a completely fresh start.
818
00:47:31,601 --> 00:47:33,436
And that's what he did.
819
00:47:33,478 --> 00:47:36,523
Him and Grandma
packed their lives into an RV
820
00:47:36,606 --> 00:47:40,318
and they left the whole mess
that he made behind.
821
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,446
(folk music playing)
822
00:47:46,241 --> 00:47:47,826
(music cuts out)
823
00:47:48,743 --> 00:47:52,497
Bill (in video):
Cleveland, Ohio,
on this first day of March.
824
00:47:53,164 --> 00:47:55,667
Tulsa, Oklahoma,
this beautiful state.
825
00:47:55,709 --> 00:47:58,044
We're gettin' ready to go
to work here in Charlotte
826
00:47:58,128 --> 00:48:00,672
at the, uh, Craft Show.
827
00:48:00,755 --> 00:48:04,467
(music playing,
crowd chatter in video)
828
00:48:08,596 --> 00:48:12,100
Samples of what you can do
with the Punch Connection.
829
00:48:12,183 --> 00:48:14,019
vendor:
Come on in to the counter,
and we'll give you
830
00:48:14,060 --> 00:48:15,854
the $10
gourmet waffle cutter.
831
00:48:15,937 --> 00:48:17,230
Take home
as many as you like.
832
00:48:17,313 --> 00:48:21,067
You could use
cabbage, carrots, celery.
833
00:48:21,484 --> 00:48:23,236
Look, you're on TV.
834
00:48:25,697 --> 00:48:27,240
Isn't that neat?
835
00:48:27,615 --> 00:48:31,119
Now, if you take this
same bagging process,
836
00:48:31,202 --> 00:48:33,329
and we use it in our freezer.
837
00:48:33,371 --> 00:48:36,374
Amanda:
They became
traveling salesmen.
838
00:48:36,416 --> 00:48:38,668
They went from one
state to another,
839
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:40,462
living in different
campgrounds.
840
00:48:40,545 --> 00:48:42,964
And they were selling
vacuum sealers
841
00:48:43,048 --> 00:48:45,550
and rubber stamps
at local trade shows.
842
00:48:45,633 --> 00:48:48,178
And that's pretty much
all that we would know
843
00:48:48,219 --> 00:48:51,056
about Grandpa
from those years,
844
00:48:51,139 --> 00:48:55,393
if he hadn't brought
his video camera with him.
845
00:48:58,938 --> 00:49:02,400
Uh-oh, you girls are on
"Candid Camera."
846
00:49:04,361 --> 00:49:06,863
Bill:
Turn around and be
a star for me.
847
00:49:06,905 --> 00:49:10,950
(light, uneasy music playing)
848
00:49:23,129 --> 00:49:24,714
Bill: It isn't every day
we get to have
849
00:49:24,756 --> 00:49:26,132
movie stars in our midst.
850
00:49:26,216 --> 00:49:28,760
Oh, I'm not no movie star.
851
00:49:33,932 --> 00:49:35,266
speaker: She really wants
you to tape her,
852
00:49:35,308 --> 00:49:37,268
but she won't act like it.
853
00:49:37,644 --> 00:49:39,646
young girl:
Don't, no.
854
00:49:39,729 --> 00:49:41,981
♪♪
855
00:49:56,788 --> 00:49:58,289
No, there's more.
856
00:49:58,373 --> 00:50:00,625
♪♪
857
00:50:00,667 --> 00:50:02,127
Will you get that off!
858
00:50:05,463 --> 00:50:07,757
speaker: See?
You're scarin' her.
859
00:50:08,383 --> 00:50:11,052
Come back to see us
at the Craft Show.
860
00:50:11,136 --> 00:50:12,721
We're here.
861
00:50:13,847 --> 00:50:14,806
Um...
862
00:50:14,889 --> 00:50:16,391
(static)
863
00:50:16,474 --> 00:50:18,643
♪♪
864
00:50:21,187 --> 00:50:23,440
Amanda:
When I watch these tapes,
865
00:50:23,481 --> 00:50:26,651
I see a man
with a serious problem
866
00:50:26,693 --> 00:50:29,446
who knows that he's
not gonna get caught,
867
00:50:29,487 --> 00:50:31,614
and I can't help
but feel like
868
00:50:31,656 --> 00:50:35,326
if there had just been
some way for him to get help,
869
00:50:35,368 --> 00:50:39,664
how much of all of this
could've been prevented?
870
00:50:41,666 --> 00:50:42,459
Oh!
871
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:44,836
Amanda:
But he just kept going
872
00:50:44,878 --> 00:50:49,174
until the early '90s
when they landed in Florida,
873
00:50:49,215 --> 00:50:52,677
and moved in next door
to a kid named Christine.
874
00:50:58,475 --> 00:51:00,310
Christine (over phone):
So, I do have a question.
875
00:51:00,352 --> 00:51:02,604
And, and I-I feel like
I should be able
876
00:51:02,687 --> 00:51:05,231
-to ask this question.
-Amanda: Okay.
877
00:51:05,315 --> 00:51:10,737
Christine: I want to know
how you found me.
878
00:51:11,154 --> 00:51:13,031
Oh, of course, so my--
879
00:51:13,073 --> 00:51:15,909
It was all in
my grandfather's paperwork.
880
00:51:15,992 --> 00:51:18,870
Christine:
Okay. 'Cause, you know,
there's always that fear
881
00:51:18,953 --> 00:51:20,413
that you put somebody in jail
882
00:51:20,497 --> 00:51:22,624
and their family
wants to retaliate.
883
00:51:22,707 --> 00:51:24,459
-Debi: Oh, my gosh.
-Of course, there is not
884
00:51:24,542 --> 00:51:28,588
a single person in my family
that would, would defend him.
885
00:51:28,672 --> 00:51:30,840
-Debi: Absolutely.
-Christine: Okay.
886
00:51:30,924 --> 00:51:32,509
The day of the incident
he told me,
887
00:51:32,550 --> 00:51:35,136
"You can trust me.
I'm a doctor."
888
00:51:35,220 --> 00:51:38,223
-Oh, my God.
-Christine:
That's how he got me.
889
00:51:38,306 --> 00:51:43,645
I remember, all of a sudden,
I'm down on the ground.
890
00:51:44,062 --> 00:51:45,397
There he is on top of me.
891
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,524
He was like,
"If you tell anybody,
892
00:51:47,565 --> 00:51:51,778
-I will kill your parents."
-Oh, my God.
893
00:51:51,861 --> 00:51:55,031
Christine:
And I flipped out,
and I kicked him,
894
00:51:55,073 --> 00:51:57,075
and I pushed him off of me.
895
00:51:57,117 --> 00:51:58,535
And I grabbed my bike,
896
00:51:58,576 --> 00:52:01,538
and I came back
into the trailer park.
897
00:52:01,955 --> 00:52:06,209
And so, I took measures,
and my parents took measures,
898
00:52:06,251 --> 00:52:10,463
and we went through court,
and they found him guilty.
899
00:52:10,547 --> 00:52:14,050
You know, it was,
it was pretty dramatic
being on the stand,
900
00:52:14,092 --> 00:52:16,094
but, you know,
I was so worried that
901
00:52:16,136 --> 00:52:17,971
if he did that to me
902
00:52:18,054 --> 00:52:20,265
would he do it
to somebody else?
903
00:52:20,807 --> 00:52:24,978
(deep breath)
Oh, I mean, I-I--
Thank you for sharing that.
904
00:52:25,061 --> 00:52:26,980
And I am--
I'm just so sorry.
905
00:52:27,063 --> 00:52:32,277
I do want to say
how incredibly proud I am
that you, you did that
906
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,739
because there were
dozens and dozens
907
00:52:35,780 --> 00:52:38,158
-over many, many years.
-Christine: Jesus Christ.
908
00:52:38,241 --> 00:52:40,785
Amanda:
And he did not go
to prison until '92.
909
00:52:40,827 --> 00:52:44,873
-So for that, we have you
to thank, and your courage.
-Debi: Mm-hmm.
910
00:52:44,956 --> 00:52:49,419
Christine:
So, he never served
any prison until--
911
00:52:49,461 --> 00:52:50,879
Until you.
912
00:52:53,340 --> 00:52:55,633
(Christine chokes up)
913
00:52:57,635 --> 00:53:01,639
Christine:
I didn't even know
he hurt so many people.
914
00:53:03,058 --> 00:53:05,935
And I didn't want him
to do that to anybody else.
915
00:53:05,977 --> 00:53:07,437
Like, I--
916
00:53:07,479 --> 00:53:09,773
(tearful)
Hoo, sorry.
917
00:53:12,317 --> 00:53:13,526
Can I talk
to your mom for a sec?
918
00:53:13,610 --> 00:53:15,695
Oh, sure.
I'm right here, go 'head.
919
00:53:15,779 --> 00:53:17,155
Christine:
Hey.
920
00:53:17,614 --> 00:53:20,367
-How are you doing
through this?
-(both laugh)
921
00:53:20,450 --> 00:53:22,535
Well, you know,
it's so interesting.
922
00:53:22,619 --> 00:53:24,913
-I have learned that...
-Christine: Right.
923
00:53:24,996 --> 00:53:26,748
...um, you can't
change the past.
924
00:53:26,831 --> 00:53:29,334
All you can do is
change your future.
925
00:53:29,584 --> 00:53:33,421
And I can't change what
either of my parents did,
926
00:53:33,505 --> 00:53:36,800
but I have children, ya know,
that are all adults now,
927
00:53:36,841 --> 00:53:42,347
and I...
tried to protect them
at all levels.
928
00:53:43,848 --> 00:53:45,517
I was constantly watching him,
929
00:53:45,558 --> 00:53:48,687
and making sure
that my kids were safe.
930
00:53:48,728 --> 00:53:51,022
When I knew that they
were coming around,
931
00:53:51,064 --> 00:53:53,733
I was watching him
like a hawk.
932
00:53:53,817 --> 00:53:56,361
♪♪
933
00:54:09,290 --> 00:54:11,418
Angie:
When Grandpa did go to prison,
934
00:54:12,293 --> 00:54:15,588
I can remember how she told me.
935
00:54:16,256 --> 00:54:20,427
So, Mom had just come
in my room and said,
936
00:54:20,510 --> 00:54:22,387
um, "I wanna talk
to you about somethin'.
937
00:54:22,470 --> 00:54:23,555
"Did-- I just wanted
to let you know
938
00:54:23,638 --> 00:54:25,515
"that Grandpa
went to prison
939
00:54:25,557 --> 00:54:29,227
for," I think she did say,
"molesting a little girl."
940
00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:30,687
And through clenched teeth,
941
00:54:30,729 --> 00:54:32,439
'cause she really didn't
wanna get the words out,
942
00:54:32,522 --> 00:54:35,025
I could tell... she said,
943
00:54:35,066 --> 00:54:36,776
"Did he ever do
anything to you?"
944
00:54:36,860 --> 00:54:40,280
And I never turned around.
I just said, "Mm-hmm."
945
00:54:40,905 --> 00:54:45,035
And she turned around
and left the room.
946
00:54:45,076 --> 00:54:46,327
There wasn't even a hug.
947
00:54:46,411 --> 00:54:49,122
To this day, there's still
948
00:54:49,205 --> 00:54:51,624
not been
a conversation about that.
949
00:54:51,708 --> 00:54:54,502
-That's super painful.
-Yeah.
950
00:54:55,378 --> 00:54:56,504
Is that Grandpa?
951
00:54:56,588 --> 00:54:58,006
-Amanda: That is Grandpa.
-Angie: Wow.
952
00:54:58,089 --> 00:54:59,215
Amanda:
This date is in prison.
953
00:54:59,257 --> 00:55:01,217
That's '94.
954
00:55:01,259 --> 00:55:02,844
I don't know about this one.
955
00:55:02,927 --> 00:55:05,930
He did get out early.
I think two and a half years
956
00:55:06,014 --> 00:55:07,599
-into the four-and-a-half-year
sentence.
-Oh.
957
00:55:07,682 --> 00:55:09,768
-Amanda:
He got off on good behavior.
-Mm-hmm.
958
00:55:09,809 --> 00:55:11,853
Amanda:
The chaplain was like,
"Oh, this is such
959
00:55:11,936 --> 00:55:14,064
a trustworthy man of God."
960
00:55:14,105 --> 00:55:17,275
And then,
him and Grandma just
961
00:55:17,317 --> 00:55:19,402
bounced around Florida
for 20 years.
962
00:55:19,611 --> 00:55:22,614
I just cannot even
wrap my head around
963
00:55:22,655 --> 00:55:26,618
-what she dealt with every day.
-Yeah. Yeah.
964
00:55:27,786 --> 00:55:29,537
Amanda:
There is a letter
she sent to you
965
00:55:29,621 --> 00:55:31,831
as soon as Grandpa
went to prison.
966
00:55:31,915 --> 00:55:34,876
(clears throat)
It gets me every time.
967
00:55:35,835 --> 00:55:38,463
"Dear Angie,
Thank you for your lovely
letter and pictures.
968
00:55:38,505 --> 00:55:40,548
"After three weeks,
it was possible for Grandpa
969
00:55:40,632 --> 00:55:42,842
"to receive his in prison.
He likes it.
970
00:55:43,009 --> 00:55:46,596
"He calls prison the 'big fish,'
just like Jonah.
971
00:55:46,638 --> 00:55:48,723
"He's in there
because of his disobedience.
972
00:55:48,807 --> 00:55:50,642
"He is now
crying out like Jonah
973
00:55:50,684 --> 00:55:52,852
"to be delivered
from the belly of hell.
974
00:55:52,936 --> 00:55:56,648
"And he is asking us
to forgive him, too.
975
00:55:56,731 --> 00:55:59,275
(Amanda sighs)
976
00:55:59,317 --> 00:56:01,653
(tearful)
"As for me, I'm sorry, too.
977
00:56:01,695 --> 00:56:04,823
"Even though I've been
aware of this addiction
for a long time,
978
00:56:04,906 --> 00:56:08,535
"and promised God
I would face it squarely
979
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:11,246
"when it raised its ugly head,
980
00:56:11,329 --> 00:56:13,623
"I have failed miserably
in that department.
981
00:56:13,665 --> 00:56:16,459
"I have found the ugly
addiction never sleeps,
982
00:56:16,501 --> 00:56:18,128
"and I require sleep.
983
00:56:18,169 --> 00:56:19,421
"And it is very sneaky.
984
00:56:19,504 --> 00:56:22,757
"And there are many times
I'm not smart enough.
985
00:56:23,174 --> 00:56:24,676
"Then both you
and your mom write me
986
00:56:24,718 --> 00:56:26,678
"such beautiful letters
and cards saying,
987
00:56:26,761 --> 00:56:29,806
"'We miss you. We love you.
Please come home.'
988
00:56:29,848 --> 00:56:33,018
"And I think, 'Why?'
I'm a big part of this failure.
989
00:56:34,436 --> 00:56:36,479
"Oh, Angie, please forgive me.
990
00:56:36,521 --> 00:56:39,399
I do love you, honey.
Grandma."
991
00:56:41,359 --> 00:56:44,112
-(sighs)
-That's, that's really sad.
992
00:56:44,195 --> 00:56:46,865
-Do you remember this?
-No.
993
00:56:46,906 --> 00:56:48,199
(Amanda sniffles)
994
00:56:48,283 --> 00:56:51,661
So, it is confirmation
that she knew
995
00:56:51,703 --> 00:56:53,913
that I did go through that.
996
00:57:01,046 --> 00:57:03,131
♪♪
997
00:57:08,762 --> 00:57:10,555
(static)
998
00:57:18,730 --> 00:57:20,982
Debi:
My mom just constantly
999
00:57:21,066 --> 00:57:24,694
tried to smooth things over
all the time in her mind.
1000
00:57:25,403 --> 00:57:30,700
Just... wish things away
or pray 'em away.
1001
00:57:32,452 --> 00:57:35,163
I know that she couldn't
have been happy, at all,
1002
00:57:35,246 --> 00:57:37,040
living with my dad.
1003
00:57:37,082 --> 00:57:40,126
But growing up religious,
1004
00:57:40,210 --> 00:57:43,254
doesn't matter what kind
of abuse you go through,
1005
00:57:43,338 --> 00:57:44,756
divorce wasn't an option.
1006
00:57:44,798 --> 00:57:48,176
And, especially, back then.
You just-- You didn't do it.
1007
00:57:48,259 --> 00:57:50,261
"Until death do us part."
1008
00:57:53,181 --> 00:57:56,017
In 2012, I flew to Florida,
1009
00:57:56,101 --> 00:57:58,603
and when I got there,
1010
00:57:58,687 --> 00:58:02,148
she had lost between
30 and 40 pounds.
1011
00:58:02,232 --> 00:58:06,778
And I just told her, I said,
"I see what it's doing to you."
1012
00:58:06,820 --> 00:58:10,615
And I said,
"This is the last time
I'm gonna ask you."
1013
00:58:10,699 --> 00:58:13,993
I said,
"Will you come back with me?"
1014
00:58:14,077 --> 00:58:16,955
When she said,
"Okay, I'll do it,"
1015
00:58:17,038 --> 00:58:20,125
I started
planning in my mind,
1016
00:58:20,166 --> 00:58:23,837
"How do I get her outta here
without him killing us?"
1017
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,964
♪♪
1018
00:58:27,674 --> 00:58:29,592
I am like, "Okay, Mom.
1019
00:58:29,634 --> 00:58:31,219
"We are gonna get
far enough away
1020
00:58:31,302 --> 00:58:32,804
"that he's not gonna find us.
1021
00:58:32,846 --> 00:58:35,807
I'm gonna get everything
packed in the car."
1022
00:58:38,601 --> 00:58:41,271
We were about
a half an hour away,
1023
00:58:41,312 --> 00:58:43,565
and my dad called.
1024
00:58:43,648 --> 00:58:47,652
She, she looked at it,
and she goes, "It's him."
1025
00:58:49,154 --> 00:58:54,200
I could hear him yelling,
and he said, "Where are you?!
1026
00:58:54,284 --> 00:58:56,828
You are the worst daughter!"
1027
00:58:56,870 --> 00:59:01,958
How could I possibly
steal her away from him?
1028
00:59:02,625 --> 00:59:06,796
I just thought,
"We gotta get as far away
from here as we can."
1029
00:59:06,838 --> 00:59:08,715
♪♪
1030
00:59:09,299 --> 00:59:14,637
It was an 18-hour drive
back to Pennsylvania.
1031
00:59:14,929 --> 00:59:18,266
It was the beginning
of the rest of her life.
1032
00:59:18,350 --> 00:59:20,185
♪♪
1033
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,032
I finally got her hooked up
with my doctor.
1034
00:59:34,115 --> 00:59:37,535
She was diagnosed
with colon cancer.
1035
00:59:38,328 --> 00:59:42,290
She ended up living
a little over two more years.
1036
00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:47,921
It was very sad.
I feel like she was such
1037
00:59:48,004 --> 00:59:50,757
a smart, intelligent,
beautiful woman
1038
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,967
that had wasted her time
1039
00:59:53,051 --> 00:59:57,389
on someone that has destroyed
so many people's lives.
1040
00:59:57,430 --> 01:00:00,725
(melancholy music plays)
1041
01:00:05,939 --> 01:00:09,401
(tense, unsettling
music playing)
1042
01:00:16,574 --> 01:00:18,827
(ringback tone)
1043
01:00:19,411 --> 01:00:20,745
Amanda (over phone):
Hey, Bonnie.
1044
01:00:20,787 --> 01:00:22,414
Bonnie (over phone):
Hi, Amanda.
1045
01:00:24,124 --> 01:00:26,793
You had mentioned
you're back in Harrisburg,
1046
01:00:26,876 --> 01:00:29,254
and then I thought
the only eyes that
1047
01:00:29,295 --> 01:00:33,049
I've ever seen Harrisburg,
Pennsylvania, through
1048
01:00:33,091 --> 01:00:36,261
are with my
3-to-6-year-old eyes.
1049
01:00:36,302 --> 01:00:39,806
I want to go
to Herd Chiropractic Clinic,
1050
01:00:39,889 --> 01:00:43,309
and I just wanna be
heard and understood.
1051
01:00:44,060 --> 01:00:48,023
And I want to stand
in that driveway as an adult,
1052
01:00:48,106 --> 01:00:50,567
and know that nobody
can drag me in there.
1053
01:00:50,608 --> 01:00:54,654
And that way,
it'll be permanently
imprinted in my brain
1054
01:00:54,738 --> 01:00:56,781
that I'm safe now.
1055
01:00:56,823 --> 01:00:59,284
Amanda (over phone):
I am 100% here for that.
1056
01:00:59,367 --> 01:01:01,119
Absolutely.
1057
01:01:02,662 --> 01:01:04,956
(quiet chatter)
1058
01:01:05,290 --> 01:01:08,376
(anxious music playing)
1059
01:01:18,053 --> 01:01:22,307
-How you feelin'?
-Bonnie: I'm feeling nervous.
1060
01:01:22,349 --> 01:01:24,601
It's so strange being back here.
1061
01:01:24,642 --> 01:01:26,603
I've avoided it for so long.
1062
01:01:27,437 --> 01:01:31,524
-Like, deliberately
avoided coming back here.
-You're doin' it. Mm-hmm.
1063
01:01:31,608 --> 01:01:33,151
It's this white
building right here.
1064
01:01:33,234 --> 01:01:34,402
-Bonnie: Here on the corner?
-Yep.
1065
01:01:34,486 --> 01:01:35,612
Bonnie:
Okay.
1066
01:01:35,653 --> 01:01:37,947
♪♪
1067
01:01:44,537 --> 01:01:46,206
I need to breathe.
1068
01:01:46,289 --> 01:01:49,334
(tense music playing)
1069
01:01:51,169 --> 01:01:53,213
(deep breathing)
1070
01:02:02,514 --> 01:02:04,766
(music stops abruptly)
1071
01:02:06,267 --> 01:02:09,020
(ambient street noise)
1072
01:02:14,984 --> 01:02:17,237
(distant siren wails)
1073
01:02:18,405 --> 01:02:21,074
(Bonnie sniffles, groans)
1074
01:02:21,157 --> 01:02:23,535
(Bonnie exhales)
1075
01:02:23,618 --> 01:02:25,870
Oh, my goodness.
1076
01:02:33,336 --> 01:02:35,088
(sniffling)
1077
01:02:48,685 --> 01:02:51,104
(office phone ringing)
1078
01:02:52,188 --> 01:02:54,190
This is different.
1079
01:02:54,232 --> 01:02:56,317
(indistinct chatter)
1080
01:03:07,412 --> 01:03:09,873
Just being in this building
1081
01:03:11,916 --> 01:03:14,878
makes me feel sick
to my stomach.
1082
01:03:18,006 --> 01:03:19,966
I need to breathe.
1083
01:03:20,467 --> 01:03:22,260
Oh, my God.
1084
01:03:31,436 --> 01:03:33,813
-Jack: Come on in here, kids.
Have a seat, okay?
-Amanda: Thanks so much.
1085
01:03:33,897 --> 01:03:35,565
-Bonnie: Yeah.
-Amanda: Thanks so much.
1086
01:03:35,607 --> 01:03:38,193
We got a lotta flack
down here, uh,
1087
01:03:38,276 --> 01:03:42,614
from people that Bill had,
uh, relationships with.
1088
01:03:43,114 --> 01:03:47,952
Between Bill and Lois's
house and here,
1089
01:03:47,994 --> 01:03:52,040
those were the two places
he would abuse me.
1090
01:03:52,123 --> 01:03:56,378
And it-it's taken me
a little over 40 years now
1091
01:03:56,461 --> 01:04:00,340
to come back to these places
and face them as an adult.
1092
01:04:00,423 --> 01:04:02,133
The Bible says that
1093
01:04:02,175 --> 01:04:05,929
we're forgiven
to the same degree we forgive.
1094
01:04:07,347 --> 01:04:09,933
It's God's love that
c-- allows us to forgive
1095
01:04:09,974 --> 01:04:13,395
and h-helps us to forgive
those that have abused us.
1096
01:04:13,478 --> 01:04:16,106
Bonnie:
I think that's what I struggle
with is thinking that
1097
01:04:16,147 --> 01:04:17,982
if I'm going to forgive someone
1098
01:04:18,066 --> 01:04:20,068
that, no,
I'm not going to forget,
1099
01:04:20,151 --> 01:04:23,905
and, no, I'm not going
to just immediately let it go.
1100
01:04:23,988 --> 01:04:25,990
It's, it's hard
to forgive someone who
1101
01:04:26,074 --> 01:04:27,659
doesn't ask for forgiveness,
1102
01:04:27,742 --> 01:04:31,538
or... think that
they did anything wrong.
1103
01:04:31,621 --> 01:04:33,039
You know?
1104
01:04:36,001 --> 01:04:38,044
Jack:
Yeah, you're never
gonna forget it.
1105
01:04:38,128 --> 01:04:40,880
I mean, that's--
I mean, that's, th-that's life.
1106
01:04:40,964 --> 01:04:43,216
We understand that, yeah.
1107
01:04:45,427 --> 01:04:47,679
And, and we wanna pray
with you before we leave
1108
01:04:47,721 --> 01:04:49,848
-just for-- Yes.
-Amanda: Yeah?
1109
01:04:49,889 --> 01:04:53,435
-Barbara: Absolutely.
-Okay.
1110
01:04:53,518 --> 01:04:55,478
Jack:
Pray, Barb, you pray
for 'em, honey. Pray.
1111
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,355
Barbara:
Lord, we come into
your presence of praise
1112
01:04:57,439 --> 01:04:59,774
and into accordance
with thanksgiving.
1113
01:04:59,858 --> 01:05:01,943
Knowing that you're
the Lord, our God,
1114
01:05:02,027 --> 01:05:03,778
and you do all things well.
1115
01:05:03,862 --> 01:05:06,656
You heal our mind,
you heal our body,
you heal our spirit.
1116
01:05:06,698 --> 01:05:08,950
-Yes, you're
the healer, Lord. Yes.
-I ask Lord Jesus
1117
01:05:09,034 --> 01:05:10,577
that you will take my sister,
1118
01:05:10,660 --> 01:05:12,328
-and you'll pour your love...
-Jack: Yes, Lord Jesus.
1119
01:05:12,370 --> 01:05:14,664
-...and your love, love, love...
-Jack: Yes, yes, Jesus, yes.
1120
01:05:14,706 --> 01:05:17,709
-...into her mind,
body, and spirit.
-Jack: Yes.
1121
01:05:17,792 --> 01:05:20,837
-Yes, Lord.
-Let there be a release,
1122
01:05:20,879 --> 01:05:22,547
and a power of forgiveness
1123
01:05:22,630 --> 01:05:26,009
that will set her free totally
in her whole being.
1124
01:05:26,051 --> 01:05:28,595
-While we bless your name, Lord,
we know you're the God...
-Jack: We bless you.
1125
01:05:28,678 --> 01:05:30,430
-Thank you.
You are the healer, Lord.
-...of the now...
1126
01:05:30,513 --> 01:05:32,307
-Jack: Yep.
-...and the God of our future,
1127
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:34,934
and you take care of us,
and we bless your name.
1128
01:05:35,018 --> 01:05:36,144
Thank you
for your healing, Lord,
1129
01:05:36,227 --> 01:05:38,229
for your healing power
in our sister.
1130
01:05:38,271 --> 01:05:40,065
Just fill her heart,
fill her spirit, Lord,
1131
01:05:40,106 --> 01:05:42,233
we pray in the name
of the Lord Jesus Christ.
1132
01:05:42,275 --> 01:05:45,153
Filling you
with love, forgiveness,
1133
01:05:45,236 --> 01:05:47,530
and healing
in Jesus's mighty name.
1134
01:05:47,572 --> 01:05:49,032
Amen.
1135
01:05:49,616 --> 01:05:51,576
(birds chirping)
1136
01:05:51,659 --> 01:05:54,412
(ambient street noise)
1137
01:05:57,874 --> 01:06:00,460
-Amanda: How ya feelin'?
-Sick.
1138
01:06:04,923 --> 01:06:07,217
(Bonnie chokes up)
1139
01:06:08,551 --> 01:06:10,595
(deep breathing)
1140
01:06:15,684 --> 01:06:16,935
(softly)
Yeah.
1141
01:06:17,143 --> 01:06:18,978
Amanda:
Do you want a hug
or you want some space?
1142
01:06:19,062 --> 01:06:21,648
-(softly) Space.
-Okay, that's fine.
1143
01:06:27,278 --> 01:06:29,364
♪♪
1144
01:06:49,134 --> 01:06:52,637
Amanda:
Do you feel like God
has forgiven you?
1145
01:06:52,679 --> 01:06:57,434
Absolutely, because there's
no sin that can't be forgiven.
1146
01:06:57,475 --> 01:07:00,228
Except blasphemy
of the Holy Spirit.
1147
01:07:02,355 --> 01:07:05,233
You can be forgiven
no matter what you've done.
1148
01:07:05,275 --> 01:07:07,360
♪♪
1149
01:07:10,864 --> 01:07:13,658
(ambient nature sounds)
1150
01:07:19,456 --> 01:07:21,499
♪♪
1151
01:07:23,668 --> 01:07:25,670
-(answering machine beeps)
-Bill (on voicemail):
Hi, Debi.
1152
01:07:25,754 --> 01:07:28,006
I'm tryin' to reach ya, honey.
1153
01:07:28,048 --> 01:07:30,383
Daddy loves his daughter.
1154
01:07:30,675 --> 01:07:32,635
You're so precious.
1155
01:07:35,096 --> 01:07:40,560
-(answering machine beeps)
-Um, so, everything has gotten
so screwed up down here.
1156
01:07:41,019 --> 01:07:43,813
I'm not doin' too good
right now, and...
1157
01:07:44,147 --> 01:07:47,650
I'll just explain it to you
when I get a chance.
1158
01:07:48,193 --> 01:07:51,196
I'm, I'm waitin' for ya.
Thank you.
1159
01:07:52,864 --> 01:07:56,368
-(answering machine beeps)
-Hey, Deb, I've been
missin' you, honey,
1160
01:07:56,409 --> 01:07:59,204
and you don't seem
to pick up anymore.
1161
01:07:59,287 --> 01:08:01,539
I guess you don't
like me anymore.
1162
01:08:03,792 --> 01:08:06,127
Tomorrow, of course,
as you know, I have dialysis,
1163
01:08:06,211 --> 01:08:10,340
and... now I have to have
a fistula put in my arm.
1164
01:08:10,382 --> 01:08:14,010
I have a catheter
in my shoulder right now.
1165
01:08:14,928 --> 01:08:18,556
So at any rate,
I just want you
to keep me in prayer,
1166
01:08:18,598 --> 01:08:21,893
but ya know what's goin' on
with your old Pappy.
1167
01:08:23,895 --> 01:08:27,315
-(ringback tone)
-Amanda (over phone):
Hey, Mom.
1168
01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:28,983
Debi (over phone):
Hi, honey.
1169
01:08:29,067 --> 01:08:30,777
Amanda:
Okay, so you were saying--
1170
01:08:30,860 --> 01:08:34,781
Debi:
He definitely
has declined a lot.
1171
01:08:34,864 --> 01:08:38,493
He just sounded
very confused,
very weak, so.
1172
01:08:38,576 --> 01:08:42,330
Amanda:
How do you feel
knowin' he's fallin' apart?
1173
01:08:42,664 --> 01:08:45,458
Debi:
I don't know. I, I guess,
1174
01:08:45,542 --> 01:08:48,378
you know, even though
he's a horrible, awful person,
1175
01:08:48,420 --> 01:08:50,338
I still know him as my dad.
1176
01:08:50,422 --> 01:08:53,341
As messed up as he was.
You know?
1177
01:08:54,009 --> 01:08:56,720
-(answering machine beeps)
-Bill: All I get is this
darn voicemail thing.
1178
01:08:56,761 --> 01:08:57,804
I hate that thing.
1179
01:08:57,887 --> 01:09:00,098
Are you in a position
where you can call me?
1180
01:09:00,181 --> 01:09:01,766
Very important.
1181
01:09:01,933 --> 01:09:04,394
-(answering machine beeps)
-I don't understand this.
1182
01:09:04,436 --> 01:09:06,938
Why are you avoiding me?
1183
01:09:07,147 --> 01:09:11,609
-(answering machine beeps)
-I'm not your enemy,
I'm your dad.
1184
01:09:11,901 --> 01:09:13,653
I'd just as soon be dead.
1185
01:09:13,737 --> 01:09:15,071
That'd be the best
thing in the world
1186
01:09:15,113 --> 01:09:16,448
if it happened to me.
1187
01:09:16,489 --> 01:09:17,949
Maybe you'd agree
with that, too.
1188
01:09:17,991 --> 01:09:19,826
I don't know.
1189
01:09:19,909 --> 01:09:21,286
And I love ya.
1190
01:09:21,578 --> 01:09:24,831
Give me a call
back tonight, please.
1191
01:09:26,916 --> 01:09:30,337
Uh, it's, it's been
three days of hell,
that's all I can say.
1192
01:09:30,420 --> 01:09:34,883
Constant phone calls and texts,
and harassment, and oh, my gosh.
1193
01:09:34,966 --> 01:09:37,927
He needs somebody to manage
1194
01:09:37,969 --> 01:09:40,305
-him right now.
-Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1195
01:09:42,015 --> 01:09:44,351
Debi (over phone):
He's saying he's
frantically moving,
1196
01:09:44,434 --> 01:09:46,269
and, "I'm just
too old to do this."
1197
01:09:46,311 --> 01:09:48,730
And I could just tell
he wasn't telling me anything
1198
01:09:48,813 --> 01:09:52,025
and, and I said,
"Okay, Dad, what's goin' on?"
1199
01:09:52,442 --> 01:09:53,985
He says, "Well"--
1200
01:09:54,069 --> 01:09:57,405
He goes,
"Remember those young twins
that I was talkin' about?"
1201
01:09:57,489 --> 01:09:59,157
-Amanda (over phone): Oh, no.
-Debi: Yeah.
1202
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:04,162
He said, you know,
"They aren't feeling
comfortable that I'm here."
1203
01:10:04,204 --> 01:10:06,623
And I knew
he wasn't lyin' to me.
1204
01:10:06,664 --> 01:10:08,875
So, I called
the manager of the place,
1205
01:10:08,958 --> 01:10:11,419
and he told me that,
"Your father has been
1206
01:10:11,503 --> 01:10:13,380
touching them
inappropriately,"
1207
01:10:13,463 --> 01:10:16,508
but, again, nobody
wants to press charges.
1208
01:10:16,591 --> 01:10:18,843
They just want him to move.
1209
01:10:18,927 --> 01:10:20,679
Amanda:
That exact reason is why
1210
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,182
he's gotten away with this
for his entire life.
1211
01:10:24,224 --> 01:10:26,518
♪♪
1212
01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:46,037
We're gonna go down
1213
01:10:46,121 --> 01:10:47,622
and see Grandpa
for the last time.
1214
01:10:47,706 --> 01:10:51,710
He is not doing-- Very poor
in his health, um,
1215
01:10:51,751 --> 01:10:53,044
in his final days.
1216
01:10:53,086 --> 01:10:56,589
I just picked up
a letter from my sister
that she wrote him.
1217
01:10:56,756 --> 01:11:00,051
So, if there's anything
you wanted me to say to him.
1218
01:11:00,135 --> 01:11:02,846
Bonnie (over computer):
I would love for you
to tell him
1219
01:11:02,887 --> 01:11:05,557
that his sick perversion,
1220
01:11:05,598 --> 01:11:07,892
to get off for a few minutes,
1221
01:11:07,976 --> 01:11:11,521
took the spirit and the life
out of a 4-year-old girl.
1222
01:11:11,604 --> 01:11:12,564
Amanda: Hm.
1223
01:11:16,234 --> 01:11:18,486
♪♪
1224
01:11:31,958 --> 01:11:34,044
♪♪
1225
01:11:41,718 --> 01:11:43,386
-Debi: Alright, I'd slow down.
-Amanda: Yeah.
1226
01:11:43,428 --> 01:11:45,430
Alright, it's here, yeah?
1227
01:11:47,766 --> 01:11:49,017
Okay.
1228
01:11:56,983 --> 01:11:59,069
(nurse laughs)
1229
01:12:02,447 --> 01:12:05,950
(Debi and nurse speaking)
1230
01:12:12,874 --> 01:12:15,377
resident:
How much longer
is it before dinner?
1231
01:12:15,460 --> 01:12:16,920
nurse:
One more hour.
1232
01:12:16,961 --> 01:12:19,339
-(indistinct)
-Yes.
1233
01:12:19,422 --> 01:12:22,842
-Bill: Hello!
-nurse: Hi, honey, it's me.
1234
01:12:23,593 --> 01:12:26,846
Can you hang up the phone?
It's something important.
1235
01:12:27,931 --> 01:12:30,392
(Debi takes deep breath)
1236
01:12:30,475 --> 01:12:32,727
(indistinct chatter)
1237
01:12:38,483 --> 01:12:40,151
Debi:
Hi, Dad.
1238
01:12:40,235 --> 01:12:43,863
(gasps)
I don't believe it.
1239
01:12:43,947 --> 01:12:47,784
Hello there, sweet--
Hi, girls, how are ya?
1240
01:12:47,826 --> 01:12:50,286
-Debi: How are you, Dad?
-Oh, I'm very good.
1241
01:12:50,328 --> 01:12:52,330
I've got a lotta pain
in my side today,
1242
01:12:52,372 --> 01:12:53,832
-but otherwise I'm okay.
-Amanda (softly): Sorry.
1243
01:12:53,915 --> 01:12:57,502
-Hi, Grandpa. Hi.
-Bill: Hi. Hi, sweetheart.
Oh, my gosh.
1244
01:12:57,544 --> 01:12:59,004
Debi:
Are you alright?
1245
01:12:59,045 --> 01:13:01,339
I'm okay. Thanks, honey.
1246
01:13:01,506 --> 01:13:04,801
-(Amanda chuckles)
-Appreciate you, baby.
1247
01:13:08,805 --> 01:13:10,640
We didn't mean to shock
ya too much.
1248
01:13:10,682 --> 01:13:12,475
No, it's wonderful. Thank you.
1249
01:13:12,517 --> 01:13:14,686
Wasn't sure if you'd
remember who I was.
1250
01:13:14,728 --> 01:13:16,563
-Of course!
-(Debi chuckles)
1251
01:13:16,646 --> 01:13:20,233
How could I ever forget
you or her? Either one.
1252
01:13:20,775 --> 01:13:22,569
-But.
-Debi: So, but tomorrow,
1253
01:13:22,652 --> 01:13:24,362
we can call it
a hang-out day,
1254
01:13:24,404 --> 01:13:27,198
-if you have the energy.
-Bill: Sounds good.
1255
01:13:28,324 --> 01:13:31,077
-(car door shuts)
-(car beeping)
1256
01:13:32,579 --> 01:13:35,415
Amanda:
Okay.
1257
01:13:35,498 --> 01:13:38,001
-Debi: (sighs) Oh--
-What do you think of the place?
1258
01:13:38,043 --> 01:13:39,169
It is really bad.
1259
01:13:39,210 --> 01:13:44,424
He's not lying when
he said it was a dump. (laughs)
1260
01:13:44,507 --> 01:13:47,093
But, ya know what,
it's this or prison.
1261
01:13:47,177 --> 01:13:49,095
-Yeah.
-Pick your worst.
1262
01:13:49,179 --> 01:13:52,140
-You know?
-Amanda: I'd prefer
prison for him.
1263
01:13:54,309 --> 01:13:56,561
(bird cawing)
1264
01:14:06,404 --> 01:14:08,573
You almost ready, Manny?
1265
01:14:08,615 --> 01:14:10,075
Amanda:
Yeah.
1266
01:14:19,209 --> 01:14:20,960
(sighs)
1267
01:14:28,051 --> 01:14:29,594
(Amanda clears throat)
1268
01:14:30,345 --> 01:14:32,722
It's crazy thinkin'...
1269
01:14:32,764 --> 01:14:35,475
how long I've thought
about doing this,
1270
01:14:35,558 --> 01:14:38,436
and it's just weird 'cause it's,
like, today's that day.
1271
01:14:38,728 --> 01:14:41,564
-Today is, is the day
ya say somethin'.
-Yeah.
1272
01:14:41,606 --> 01:14:43,608
(siren blaring)
1273
01:14:43,650 --> 01:14:45,985
(blinker clicking)
1274
01:14:46,069 --> 01:14:48,488
(deep breath)
1275
01:14:57,706 --> 01:14:59,958
I'm nervous but I feel...
1276
01:15:02,085 --> 01:15:03,503
ready.
1277
01:15:04,796 --> 01:15:07,757
Just plow through
the discomfort here.
1278
01:15:19,978 --> 01:15:22,522
So this is all that they
said that you have left.
1279
01:15:22,605 --> 01:15:24,524
Oh, my God, that's a lie.
1280
01:15:24,607 --> 01:15:26,276
Amanda:
So there's some pictures here.
1281
01:15:26,317 --> 01:15:27,986
So we have
pictures of Grandma,
1282
01:15:28,028 --> 01:15:32,741
-and Ange, your kids.
-Yep, yep, yep. Yep.
1283
01:15:32,824 --> 01:15:35,326
Amanda:
Who's that?
1284
01:15:35,368 --> 01:15:37,328
You know,
I don't know who that is.
1285
01:15:37,370 --> 01:15:40,957
-I'm not sure.
-Oh, I see, Dad,
I see your diabetes.
1286
01:15:40,999 --> 01:15:43,501
-Mm-hmm. Look at this.
-Amanda: Look at this.
1287
01:15:43,543 --> 01:15:46,338
Peanut butter M&M's,
cookies.
1288
01:15:46,421 --> 01:15:47,881
Bill:
Yeah, I have to carry snacks
1289
01:15:47,964 --> 01:15:51,468
because we don't get
enough to eat in this place.
1290
01:15:51,509 --> 01:15:54,054
Debi:
Alright, Dad, this is gonna
be on your top shelf.
1291
01:15:54,137 --> 01:15:55,889
You, you really don't.
1292
01:15:56,681 --> 01:15:58,641
-Amanda: Okay.
-Alright.
1293
01:15:58,683 --> 01:15:59,934
Amanda:
Alright. Ya good?
1294
01:16:00,018 --> 01:16:01,770
-You can stay there.
-Debi: No, stay. Sit down, Dad.
1295
01:16:01,853 --> 01:16:02,812
No, I--
No, no, no, no, no, no.
1296
01:16:02,854 --> 01:16:04,022
That's not what
I'm after right now.
1297
01:16:04,064 --> 01:16:05,357
-Debi: What do you need?
-Amanda: Okay.
1298
01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:06,608
My telephone over there.
1299
01:16:06,691 --> 01:16:08,360
Oh, we see it's
charged, charged.
1300
01:16:08,401 --> 01:16:09,819
Bill:
Yeah, just pull the cord.
1301
01:16:10,195 --> 01:16:15,283
But I gotta have-- must have
a picture of that lady, too.
1302
01:16:15,367 --> 01:16:17,410
cameraperson (nervously):
Uh, I'll stay on this side
1303
01:16:17,494 --> 01:16:19,204
-of the camera.
-(chuckling)
1304
01:16:19,287 --> 01:16:22,707
Bill:
It isn't every day that
we get a movie star in here.
1305
01:16:22,791 --> 01:16:23,708
Oh.
1306
01:16:23,792 --> 01:16:25,543
-I'm so glad to meet you.
-(camera clicking)
1307
01:16:25,627 --> 01:16:27,712
And so glad you came.
1308
01:16:28,046 --> 01:16:31,925
Amanda:
Alright. Now, do you mind if
we take some pictures outside?
1309
01:16:32,008 --> 01:16:33,301
-No.
-Okay.
1310
01:16:33,385 --> 01:16:34,844
Bill:
(groans) Oh, my goodness.
1311
01:16:34,886 --> 01:16:36,554
I just have to go--
kinda go slow.
1312
01:16:36,638 --> 01:16:39,224
Well, go slow, Dad.
That's fine.
1313
01:16:39,891 --> 01:16:41,059
Where are we lookin'?
1314
01:16:41,101 --> 01:16:43,228
-Amanda: Just towards me.
-(Bill mumbling)
1315
01:16:43,269 --> 01:16:44,729
-Amanda: One, two...
-What?
1316
01:16:44,813 --> 01:16:47,065
-Amanda: ...three.
-Never mind.
1317
01:16:49,067 --> 01:16:52,779
-Amanda: One, two, three.
-(camera clicks)
1318
01:16:52,862 --> 01:16:55,198
Debi:
I can't believe he said
I look like your mother.
1319
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:56,616
(laughter)
1320
01:16:56,700 --> 01:16:58,743
-Bill: No, ya look great, honey.
-Debi: Uh-huh.
1321
01:16:58,785 --> 01:17:01,663
-You really do. I'm serious.
-Yeah, whatever.
1322
01:17:01,746 --> 01:17:03,581
Amanda:
You do look great
right now, Mom.
1323
01:17:03,623 --> 01:17:05,875
You do, honey.
You're, you're terrific.
1324
01:17:05,917 --> 01:17:07,252
If you only knew
what I've been through.
1325
01:17:07,293 --> 01:17:09,254
Amanda:
Alright, will ya look up
at her for a second?
1326
01:17:09,337 --> 01:17:12,257
-So what have you been through?
-(camera clicks)
1327
01:17:12,298 --> 01:17:14,968
Amanda:
Up at her. Whoop.
Can ya get that far?
1328
01:17:15,051 --> 01:17:16,845
-(Amanda chuckles)
-I think can.
1329
01:17:17,554 --> 01:17:19,681
Amanda:
Alright, great.
1330
01:17:19,764 --> 01:17:21,474
Now what time is, uh, dinner?
1331
01:17:21,558 --> 01:17:26,062
-Five, right?
-At five o'clock if--
I don't know. I--
1332
01:17:26,104 --> 01:17:28,356
-Okay.
-A lotta times,
I don't even try to eat.
1333
01:17:28,440 --> 01:17:32,027
-I know, but you need
to, Dad, if you can.
-Thank you, Mama.
1334
01:17:32,110 --> 01:17:34,529
-Stop calling me your mother.
-(Bill laughs)
1335
01:17:34,612 --> 01:17:36,489
-Amanda: Okay.
-I knew that'd get to her.
1336
01:17:36,573 --> 01:17:39,034
-Debi: Good God.
-Amanda: Now, there's, um,
1337
01:17:39,117 --> 01:17:40,869
there's somethin' I just
wanna ask you real quick.
1338
01:17:40,952 --> 01:17:43,455
Do you wanna,
do you wanna say bye?
1339
01:17:43,538 --> 01:17:45,498
-cameraperson: Okay. Yeah.
-Okay.
1340
01:17:45,582 --> 01:17:46,708
cameraperson:
I'm gonna-- She just--
1341
01:17:46,791 --> 01:17:47,792
I'm gonna go to the car.
1342
01:17:47,876 --> 01:17:48,835
It was very nice to meet you.
1343
01:17:48,918 --> 01:17:50,045
Bill:
Oh, it's a pleasure.
1344
01:17:50,128 --> 01:17:52,297
You're absolutely gorgeous,
by the way.
1345
01:17:52,339 --> 01:17:54,924
-cameraperson: Thank you.
-Bill: So, I thank you.
1346
01:17:54,966 --> 01:17:57,635
I'm blessed to have
you down here.
1347
01:17:57,719 --> 01:17:59,429
-cameraperson: Bye.
-Bill: Where ya goin'?
1348
01:17:59,471 --> 01:18:01,056
Amanda:
She's goin' to the car.
1349
01:18:01,139 --> 01:18:02,891
-We have to talk
to you about somethin'.
-Bill: No! Come on back here.
1350
01:18:02,974 --> 01:18:04,100
Debi:
No, Dad, it's alright,
it's alright.
1351
01:18:04,142 --> 01:18:05,518
She's gotta get
her stuff ready to go.
1352
01:18:05,602 --> 01:18:08,229
Bill:
I just wanted to get
a picture of her, though.
1353
01:18:09,647 --> 01:18:10,982
Amanda:
Now,
1354
01:18:11,066 --> 01:18:12,692
I'm gonna put this down.
I just wanted us
1355
01:18:12,776 --> 01:18:13,985
-to be able to...
-Here, I'll hold it, hon.
1356
01:18:14,069 --> 01:18:15,111
-I'll hold it.
-...to have a minute.
1357
01:18:15,153 --> 01:18:18,073
Um, oh, I'm gettin'
a picture taken.
1358
01:18:18,156 --> 01:18:22,118
-Debi: Good deal.
-Amanda: Alright, so I just
wanted to--
1359
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:25,789
-Oh, God, I'm gonna cry.
-Debi: Don't cry.
1360
01:18:25,830 --> 01:18:28,124
(Amanda crying)
1361
01:18:28,750 --> 01:18:31,252
(Bill speaking)
1362
01:18:36,091 --> 01:18:38,134
Grandpa, I just need you
to listen to me for a second.
1363
01:18:38,176 --> 01:18:40,512
-I'm listening.
-There are two people
1364
01:18:40,595 --> 01:18:43,056
that... sent me--
1365
01:18:43,139 --> 01:18:45,475
Can you do this?
(sniffles) I'm sorry.
1366
01:18:45,517 --> 01:18:48,186
There is...
two people that,
1367
01:18:48,269 --> 01:18:50,939
you know, we always want
wholeness between people,
1368
01:18:51,022 --> 01:18:54,734
and they asked us to send you
some mess-- a message,
1369
01:18:54,818 --> 01:18:57,570
and we want you
to hear it, okay?
1370
01:18:58,029 --> 01:19:01,324
Um... because we want
everybody to be whole
1371
01:19:01,366 --> 01:19:04,327
in this dysfunctional stuff
that we go through.
1372
01:19:04,369 --> 01:19:07,247
So, we just want ya
to listen to this, okay?
1373
01:19:07,330 --> 01:19:09,207
-I'm all ears.
-Okay.
1374
01:19:09,290 --> 01:19:13,044
So, the first one...
is from Ange.
1375
01:19:13,336 --> 01:19:16,131
She sent you
an audio message
to listen to.
1376
01:19:16,715 --> 01:19:18,133
Okay.
1377
01:19:18,299 --> 01:19:19,676
I hope you can hear it.
1378
01:19:19,884 --> 01:19:22,053
Angie (on recording):
Grandpa, I wanna start off
by telling you
1379
01:19:22,095 --> 01:19:23,763
that I love you dearly
and I'm thankful
1380
01:19:23,847 --> 01:19:25,807
to have you as my grandpa.
1381
01:19:25,890 --> 01:19:27,892
I suffered
many years of my life
1382
01:19:27,976 --> 01:19:30,020
by the trauma
I endured as a child
1383
01:19:30,061 --> 01:19:32,397
moving into your home
with my mom
1384
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:34,899
where I was
subjected to sexual abuse
1385
01:19:34,941 --> 01:19:36,776
for many years at your hand.
1386
01:19:36,860 --> 01:19:39,362
I've learned to push
everything under the carpet,
1387
01:19:39,404 --> 01:19:41,072
just like the family did.
1388
01:19:41,114 --> 01:19:44,367
I do not want to hold anger
and bitterness in my heart,
1389
01:19:44,409 --> 01:19:48,079
and I pray you get
your life right with God
before it's too late.
1390
01:19:48,121 --> 01:19:50,582
Love,
your granddaughter,
Angie.
1391
01:19:52,500 --> 01:19:54,419
Amanda:
Can you stand here?
1392
01:19:55,754 --> 01:19:57,047
Bill:
Thank you.
1393
01:19:57,088 --> 01:20:00,383
-What are your thoughts
on that, Dad?
-Well.
1394
01:20:07,932 --> 01:20:10,518
Do you wanna say anything
in response to Ange?
1395
01:20:10,602 --> 01:20:12,103
I can send her back a message.
1396
01:20:12,145 --> 01:20:13,938
Yeah, 'cause
we wanted to s-- you to,
1397
01:20:13,980 --> 01:20:15,732
ya know,
send messages to people
1398
01:20:15,774 --> 01:20:17,609
like we're sending
a message to you,
1399
01:20:17,692 --> 01:20:19,944
so what would you--
1400
01:20:20,028 --> 01:20:22,989
Do you wanna
say something to her?
1401
01:20:25,325 --> 01:20:26,951
Amanda:
Okay.
1402
01:20:29,496 --> 01:20:32,374
Hello, Angie.
This is Grandpa.
1403
01:20:32,665 --> 01:20:37,629
Hey, um, that, that was quite
a message you sent me,
1404
01:20:37,712 --> 01:20:40,090
and I appreciate it,
and I thank you,
1405
01:20:40,131 --> 01:20:44,135
and I, uh, am deeply sorry
for all the different things
1406
01:20:44,177 --> 01:20:47,639
that happened in my life,
in your life,
1407
01:20:47,722 --> 01:20:50,642
and, and, and, and your mom,
1408
01:20:50,725 --> 01:20:53,478
and, uh, it was not
done purposely,
1409
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,607
but yet, these things
do happen sometimes.
1410
01:20:57,649 --> 01:21:00,235
Sometimes,
we do stupid things,
1411
01:21:00,318 --> 01:21:05,699
and I, I have to admit that
I was many times very stupid.
1412
01:21:05,782 --> 01:21:08,743
So, thank you
for leveling with me.
1413
01:21:08,827 --> 01:21:10,829
It's wonderful.
God bless you, honey,
1414
01:21:10,912 --> 01:21:14,916
and I believe we're
gonna walk the streets
of glory together one day.
1415
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,669
Amanda:
Okay, um,
1416
01:21:17,711 --> 01:21:22,882
I-I, I do have,
I have one more. Sorry.
1417
01:21:23,508 --> 01:21:26,678
Now this is from a woman
named Bonnie Dillard.
1418
01:21:26,761 --> 01:21:29,014
(Amanda chokes up)
1419
01:21:36,104 --> 01:21:37,647
Can I at least--
You don't have to say anything,
1420
01:21:37,689 --> 01:21:38,857
but it's important.
1421
01:21:38,898 --> 01:21:40,900
She asked--
She reached out to our family.
1422
01:21:40,984 --> 01:21:42,360
Well, how 'bout if you walk away
1423
01:21:42,402 --> 01:21:44,237
-and I'll let him
listen to-- Okay?
-I can walk away.
1424
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,072
Would you like me to walk away?
1425
01:21:46,156 --> 01:21:50,910
I'll, I'll let you just hear it.
You and I. Okay?
1426
01:21:50,994 --> 01:21:55,123
Alright, it's just for healing
for them, Dad. Okay?
1427
01:21:56,374 --> 01:21:57,584
Debi:
Alright.
1428
01:21:58,793 --> 01:22:01,046
Alright.
(sniffles)
1429
01:22:01,171 --> 01:22:02,547
Alright.
1430
01:22:04,591 --> 01:22:07,761
Bonnie (on recording):
He, he, he did what
he did to get off
1431
01:22:07,844 --> 01:22:10,055
for a few minutes...
1432
01:22:10,138 --> 01:22:12,390
but what I don't
think he knows
1433
01:22:12,432 --> 01:22:16,853
is that he took...
the life,
1434
01:22:16,895 --> 01:22:19,647
the spirit
of this little girl
1435
01:22:19,731 --> 01:22:22,859
that affected
that little girl
for the rest of her life.
1436
01:22:22,901 --> 01:22:26,071
And he didn't have
the right to take that.
1437
01:22:27,781 --> 01:22:33,495
It wasn't his to take.
It was, it was soul-crushing.
1438
01:22:33,578 --> 01:22:36,539
(solemn music playing)
1439
01:22:36,581 --> 01:22:40,418
(Debi takes deep breath)
1440
01:22:40,502 --> 01:22:44,297
So, I don't know.
Do you wanna say
anything to her?
1441
01:22:45,465 --> 01:22:47,133
Okay. Alright.
1442
01:22:47,217 --> 01:22:49,844
Is there anybody else
you wanna send a message to?
1443
01:22:49,928 --> 01:22:52,263
(bleep), Paul, anybody?
1444
01:22:52,305 --> 01:22:53,598
Nobody?
1445
01:22:53,682 --> 01:22:54,557
-Not really.
-Amanda: Okay.
1446
01:22:54,599 --> 01:22:56,518
She'll get your walker
and I'll take you.
1447
01:22:56,601 --> 01:22:58,645
Yeah, I'll be right back.
1448
01:22:59,729 --> 01:23:01,981
♪♪
1449
01:23:07,737 --> 01:23:09,864
(Bill groaning)
1450
01:23:09,948 --> 01:23:11,241
Get him there,
and I'll be right back.
1451
01:23:11,282 --> 01:23:13,868
Okay. Alright, Grandpa,
I'm gonna give ya a hug.
1452
01:23:13,952 --> 01:23:15,954
Bill:
Oh, you still want to?
1453
01:23:16,037 --> 01:23:18,081
-Yep.
-Bill: Thank you.
1454
01:23:18,123 --> 01:23:19,958
Debi:
Dad, do you need--
have your wallet,
1455
01:23:20,041 --> 01:23:21,918
all of that with you?
I know you--
1456
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:23,962
-Bill: Yes, I do.
-Okay. Alright.
1457
01:23:24,004 --> 01:23:25,130
-Let's go.
-Amanda: Alright.
1458
01:23:25,213 --> 01:23:26,548
Debi: Alright.
I'll be right back to the car.
1459
01:23:26,589 --> 01:23:28,049
Amanda:
Okay, I'll see ya.
1460
01:23:31,052 --> 01:23:33,304
♪♪
1461
01:23:39,644 --> 01:23:43,314
Bill:
I still have to answer
to an almighty God.
1462
01:23:44,107 --> 01:23:47,152
And I have to stand
before him one day,
1463
01:23:47,819 --> 01:23:51,031
and I'm not gonna be able
to lie to him whatsoever
1464
01:23:51,114 --> 01:23:53,366
because he knows everything.
1465
01:23:57,162 --> 01:23:59,664
-(car beeping)
-(car door shuts)
1466
01:23:59,706 --> 01:24:01,332
(sighs)
1467
01:24:02,876 --> 01:24:04,669
(crying)
1468
01:24:05,253 --> 01:24:08,214
I did not expect
that to be so hard.
1469
01:24:10,008 --> 01:24:11,968
Oh, God.
1470
01:24:12,010 --> 01:24:14,304
♪♪
1471
01:24:24,647 --> 01:24:29,778
nurse: Mr. William,
open your beautiful eyes.
1472
01:24:31,196 --> 01:24:33,531
Bill:
And no matter what
we've done in the past
1473
01:24:33,573 --> 01:24:35,450
as we come to Him
and we repent
1474
01:24:35,533 --> 01:24:37,744
asking Him
for that forgiveness,
1475
01:24:37,827 --> 01:24:39,954
Christ will forgive.
1476
01:24:40,038 --> 01:24:42,957
No matter how awful
we have been.
1477
01:24:43,667 --> 01:24:48,129
And we're bound
for Heaven then, definitely.
1478
01:24:50,882 --> 01:24:52,676
(machine beeps)
1479
01:24:59,265 --> 01:25:02,227
(ambient street noise)
1480
01:25:11,236 --> 01:25:13,571
Amanda:
Yeah, let's do
the small one first.
1481
01:25:13,655 --> 01:25:15,907
(straining)
Let me put this over here.
1482
01:25:16,074 --> 01:25:18,201
This is all
that's left of Grandpa.
1483
01:25:18,243 --> 01:25:19,452
(sighs) Scissors.
1484
01:25:19,536 --> 01:25:22,080
(sing-songy)
♪ Scissor, scissor, scissors ♪
1485
01:25:22,122 --> 01:25:24,082
Okay, let's do this.
1486
01:25:24,165 --> 01:25:27,252
-Alright.
-World's worst unboxing video.
1487
01:25:35,010 --> 01:25:36,886
Debi:
Oh, wow.
1488
01:25:37,721 --> 01:25:38,763
Hm.
1489
01:25:43,351 --> 01:25:45,478
-Amanda:
Little picture of Grandma.
-That's shocking.
1490
01:25:45,562 --> 01:25:47,230
Amanda:
Oh, my God, this is so creepy.
1491
01:25:47,272 --> 01:25:48,273
Debi:
Well, who is it?
1492
01:25:48,314 --> 01:25:49,899
(sighs)
Just an empty wallet
1493
01:25:49,941 --> 01:25:53,695
and... pictures of this woman.
1494
01:25:54,863 --> 01:25:56,239
This is weird.
1495
01:25:56,281 --> 01:25:58,450
It is very weird.
1496
01:26:00,035 --> 01:26:02,495
What do you do
with these things?
1497
01:26:02,787 --> 01:26:05,915
We have to be careful,
we don't-- Oh, my gosh. Gross.
1498
01:26:05,957 --> 01:26:08,877
Is this one
of his matching outfits?
1499
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,296
-Hello.
-(chuckles) Hello, yellow.
1500
01:26:11,379 --> 01:26:13,631
-Hello.
-(Debi chuckles)
1501
01:26:17,469 --> 01:26:22,307
Oh, here's a brand-new coat.
Never wore. Is it his or...?
1502
01:26:25,310 --> 01:26:28,355
-It is nice. (laughs)
-I told you!
1503
01:26:28,438 --> 01:26:30,273
-Oh no!
-I can so see you--
1504
01:26:30,315 --> 01:26:32,150
Oh, conflicted.
1505
01:26:32,233 --> 01:26:36,488
(chuckles) How cozy is that
when you go to New York?
1506
01:26:36,529 --> 01:26:38,156
-Conflicted.
-Conflicted.
1507
01:26:38,198 --> 01:26:39,366
Conflicted.
1508
01:26:39,657 --> 01:26:42,452
Let's just put
this one to the side.
1509
01:26:44,037 --> 01:26:46,498
(camera clicking)
1510
01:26:50,502 --> 01:26:53,963
-(laughs) I can't.
-(both laughing)
1511
01:26:55,090 --> 01:26:57,342
(laughing)
I'm sorry.
1512
01:26:59,386 --> 01:27:03,807
We need some laughter
in all this hideousness.
(laughs)
1513
01:27:04,015 --> 01:27:08,687
-You just sitting amongst--
-I know, smelly clothes.
1514
01:27:08,770 --> 01:27:10,397
(Amanda laughs)
1515
01:27:10,689 --> 01:27:14,526
I don't know.
Like, is there something
wrong with us?
1516
01:27:15,694 --> 01:27:17,278
That we laugh?
1517
01:27:18,655 --> 01:27:23,159
-Hm, that's
an interesting question.
-(both chuckling)
1518
01:27:23,201 --> 01:27:26,496
-I don't know.
-(Amanda clears throat)
1519
01:27:26,538 --> 01:27:28,123
It's not a nervous laugh,
1520
01:27:28,206 --> 01:27:33,128
I think it's more
of a... a relief kinda.
1521
01:27:33,420 --> 01:27:35,547
And it's just kinda strange.
1522
01:27:35,630 --> 01:27:38,133
After all we've been through
all those years with him,
1523
01:27:38,216 --> 01:27:40,343
and... this is it.
1524
01:27:40,385 --> 01:27:43,388
You know, it's freeing,
1525
01:27:43,471 --> 01:27:47,642
but it's also just
very strange, so.
1526
01:27:47,726 --> 01:27:50,687
-Mm-mm.
-(Amanda clears throat)
1527
01:27:52,731 --> 01:27:53,940
(camera clicks)
1528
01:27:54,232 --> 01:27:57,235
Amanda:
Well, you certainly know
that he had no taste in clothes.
1529
01:27:57,277 --> 01:27:59,112
-(Amanda chuckles)
-Debi: Oh, yeah. Knew that.
1530
01:27:59,195 --> 01:28:01,114
Same with my mom.
1531
01:28:01,656 --> 01:28:04,325
I do find myself dressing
like her sometimes now.
1532
01:28:04,409 --> 01:28:06,369
I didn't wanna say anything.
1533
01:28:06,411 --> 01:28:08,705
(both laughing)
1534
01:28:08,788 --> 01:28:11,875
(uneasy music playing)
1535
01:28:21,426 --> 01:28:23,011
Amanda:
Okay.
1536
01:28:25,638 --> 01:28:27,724
♪♪
1537
01:28:31,102 --> 01:28:33,563
(FaceTime ringing)
1538
01:28:35,065 --> 01:28:38,109
-Hello.
-Hello!
1539
01:28:38,151 --> 01:28:41,279
Well, I am calling
with good news
1540
01:28:41,363 --> 01:28:45,784
that he passed away last week.
1541
01:28:45,825 --> 01:28:48,828
And then it was,
like, a, a frantic rush
1542
01:28:48,912 --> 01:28:51,206
to just get his body
donated to science
1543
01:28:51,289 --> 01:28:53,541
so nobody had
to deal with it.
1544
01:28:53,833 --> 01:28:55,960
-Wow.
-Yeah.
1545
01:28:56,044 --> 01:28:57,128
No funeral, no nothin'.
1546
01:28:57,212 --> 01:28:59,881
It's just--
People just want to move on.
1547
01:28:59,964 --> 01:29:01,508
-Interesting.
-Yeah.
1548
01:29:01,591 --> 01:29:04,344
Well, how are you feelin'?
1549
01:29:04,427 --> 01:29:06,304
-About this?
-Mm-hmm.
1550
01:29:07,097 --> 01:29:10,642
Ya know, there's the apology
that will never come.
1551
01:29:11,267 --> 01:29:13,645
I don't think
it would've come anyway.
1552
01:29:13,687 --> 01:29:17,482
I feel like he can't ever
hurt anyone else ever again.
1553
01:29:17,524 --> 01:29:18,858
Amanda:
Mm-hmm.
1554
01:29:18,942 --> 01:29:20,360
Um...
1555
01:29:23,530 --> 01:29:27,158
I mean, I'm happy...
I'm happy.
1556
01:29:28,076 --> 01:29:30,412
Are you okay?
I mean, I know he's
your grandfather.
1557
01:29:30,495 --> 01:29:32,414
I'm really sorry.
1558
01:29:32,539 --> 01:29:38,378
Um, yeah. No, I-I'm o--
I'm obviously okay with it.
1559
01:29:38,461 --> 01:29:41,047
But I've been having, like,
back-and-forth feelings
1560
01:29:41,131 --> 01:29:42,716
of just, like, a lot of anger
1561
01:29:42,799 --> 01:29:45,760
because I think there's
still accountability to be had
1562
01:29:45,844 --> 01:29:48,513
and continuing
to, to just talk about it.
1563
01:29:48,596 --> 01:29:51,433
And I feel very, like,
firm in what I'm doing
1564
01:29:51,516 --> 01:29:54,894
and that I should be
talking about this, so.
1565
01:29:55,687 --> 01:29:59,816
You know, it, it feels like
a lot of responsibility,
1566
01:29:59,858 --> 01:30:02,902
you know, like,
trudgin' up people's stuff,
1567
01:30:02,986 --> 01:30:06,698
but I also feel like
by not talking about it
1568
01:30:06,781 --> 01:30:08,700
is giving him what he wants...
1569
01:30:08,783 --> 01:30:10,660
-Bonnie: Mm-hmm.
-...you know?
1570
01:30:12,871 --> 01:30:16,458
And I feel like, if anything,
I want that silence to stop
1571
01:30:16,541 --> 01:30:18,376
in my family here.
1572
01:30:18,418 --> 01:30:20,712
♪♪
1573
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:28,428
Debi:
You can go straight, baby,
it's a lot quicker.
1574
01:30:28,511 --> 01:30:30,472
-Amanda: Yeah?
-Debi: Mm-hmm.
1575
01:30:33,224 --> 01:30:34,893
Amanda:
Are you nervous at all or no?
1576
01:30:34,976 --> 01:30:36,061
Debi: No.
1577
01:30:37,103 --> 01:30:38,688
Why would I be?
1578
01:30:39,230 --> 01:30:43,193
Amanda:
I mean, I think that there
are some things that Ange...
1579
01:30:43,943 --> 01:30:48,948
is holding in around this
that you guys could,
1580
01:30:49,032 --> 01:30:50,784
could talk about.
1581
01:30:52,660 --> 01:30:55,622
I don't want...
to be like Grandma
1582
01:30:55,705 --> 01:30:58,833
and die with any
secrets or regrets.
1583
01:30:58,917 --> 01:31:05,173
Yeah. Yeah, it's just,
for you guys to heal,
1584
01:31:05,256 --> 01:31:09,719
I think you're really
gonna have to listen to her.
1585
01:31:15,767 --> 01:31:18,311
Alright, here we go.
(sighs)
1586
01:31:18,395 --> 01:31:21,356
-Hi, puppers! Alright.
-Debi: Hi, Roscoe!
1587
01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:23,566
-(dogs barking)
-Hi, Roo. Hi, hon.
1588
01:31:23,608 --> 01:31:26,069
(indistinct chatter)
1589
01:31:26,945 --> 01:31:28,113
(laughter)
1590
01:31:28,154 --> 01:31:29,698
Amanda:
That should be okay.
1591
01:31:29,781 --> 01:31:31,199
Manny, here's your coffee.
1592
01:31:31,241 --> 01:31:33,243
Well, there is one,
and here's one.
1593
01:31:33,284 --> 01:31:35,036
-They're both the same.
-Angie: Amanda,
do you need sugar?
1594
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,081
-Debi: And there's milk.
-Um, no, I'm okay.
1595
01:31:43,878 --> 01:31:45,922
I get stressed
going through this footage
1596
01:31:45,964 --> 01:31:47,966
because it's, like,
there's so much of it,
1597
01:31:48,008 --> 01:31:49,300
and, like, I--
1598
01:31:49,384 --> 01:31:51,636
(fast-forwarding footage)
1599
01:31:54,597 --> 01:31:57,434
Amanda (on computer):
As far as younger girls,
1600
01:31:57,475 --> 01:31:59,310
what about the girls
in the family?
1601
01:31:59,394 --> 01:32:00,979
Oh, God, it's just nauseating.
1602
01:32:01,021 --> 01:32:03,815
Even just hear--
starting to hear it.
1603
01:32:03,857 --> 01:32:05,483
Amanda (in video):
And then, Ange,
1604
01:32:05,525 --> 01:32:06,985
anything with Ange?
1605
01:32:07,068 --> 01:32:09,112
Bill (on computer):
The only thing
I can remember--
1606
01:32:09,154 --> 01:32:10,113
Nothin' that I remember--
1607
01:32:10,155 --> 01:32:12,032
I was only--
One time I was with Angie
1608
01:32:12,115 --> 01:32:14,409
that I recall.
1609
01:32:14,492 --> 01:32:17,412
Um... she was gonna--
1610
01:32:17,495 --> 01:32:22,000
Uh, her mom was comin' over
and she was leavin' Angie,
1611
01:32:22,083 --> 01:32:27,255
and, uh... she wanted
to go to the bathroom.
1612
01:32:27,339 --> 01:32:30,258
So, I went in with her,
1613
01:32:30,342 --> 01:32:35,180
and I sat down on the potty
without my clothes on.
1614
01:32:35,263 --> 01:32:39,768
And she took her panties off,
and she sat on my lap,
1615
01:32:39,851 --> 01:32:42,103
and I rubbed her a little bit.
1616
01:32:43,521 --> 01:32:45,273
And that was the--
that was it.
1617
01:32:45,357 --> 01:32:49,110
But, lo and behold,
at that particular moment,
1618
01:32:49,194 --> 01:32:50,945
her mom came home.
1619
01:32:51,029 --> 01:32:54,616
And that's when--
And she went out then
t-to her mom.
1620
01:32:54,699 --> 01:32:58,787
That was the only thing
that ever took place
that I am aware of.
1621
01:32:58,870 --> 01:33:00,538
Unless I was dreaming,
but that's the only thing--
1622
01:33:00,622 --> 01:33:04,709
See that is the only time
I remember, ever.
1623
01:33:05,085 --> 01:33:07,545
Bill (in video):
Nothing ever happened
with you.
1624
01:33:07,587 --> 01:33:10,799
Well... I feel that,
and this isn't something
1625
01:33:10,882 --> 01:33:13,385
I've ever wanted to say,
1626
01:33:13,426 --> 01:33:14,844
but--
1627
01:33:15,470 --> 01:33:20,642
(sighs) Okay, so,
half of this issue
(nervous laugh)
1628
01:33:20,725 --> 01:33:24,354
(tearful)
is because I was placed in it.
1629
01:33:24,396 --> 01:33:26,856
-Okay?
-Amanda: Let me get the tissues.
1630
01:33:27,065 --> 01:33:29,109
(Angie crying)
1631
01:33:31,194 --> 01:33:34,030
And the thing is,
is I'm healed
of this part of it,
1632
01:33:34,114 --> 01:33:36,991
but half of this issue
1633
01:33:37,075 --> 01:33:41,913
is not knowing
why I was willingly
put into something
1634
01:33:41,955 --> 01:33:44,874
-that you knew
somebody did this.
-Debi: Mm-hmm.
1635
01:33:44,916 --> 01:33:48,586
(sniffles)
So, those are my only
current issues with it.
1636
01:33:48,628 --> 01:33:51,798
It's not that
1637
01:33:51,881 --> 01:33:54,009
any of this happened,
I mean, yeah, that's not good.
1638
01:33:54,092 --> 01:33:57,012
But... I feel like
I'm past that.
1639
01:33:57,095 --> 01:34:00,015
I know all that's wrong,
I've been healed of it--
1640
01:34:00,098 --> 01:34:01,766
Oh, thank you.
You found tissue-- (laughs)
1641
01:34:01,808 --> 01:34:03,935
Amanda:
(laughs) I don't know
where the tissues are.
1642
01:34:04,019 --> 01:34:06,354
Angie:
(coughs) Excuse me.
1643
01:34:06,438 --> 01:34:08,189
(sniffling)
1644
01:34:08,273 --> 01:34:12,777
But I feel that
a lot of our relationship
1645
01:34:12,819 --> 01:34:16,114
is based off of just
a mistrust there
1646
01:34:16,197 --> 01:34:21,453
because of not feelin'
like I understand
1647
01:34:21,494 --> 01:34:24,080
why I would've been
put in that,
1648
01:34:24,122 --> 01:34:29,127
and never had
an avenue to talk about it.
1649
01:34:29,210 --> 01:34:35,175
So, to hear you, like, just talk
about it so casually sometimes,
1650
01:34:35,258 --> 01:34:39,095
I had, like,
a hair issue or somethin'.
1651
01:34:39,137 --> 01:34:42,515
That was my way
of internalizing that,
1652
01:34:42,599 --> 01:34:46,019
and just...
taking it out on myself
1653
01:34:46,102 --> 01:34:49,898
because there was nobody
that was w-willing to listen,
1654
01:34:49,981 --> 01:34:53,151
or cared to listen,
or bring it up.
1655
01:34:54,235 --> 01:34:58,198
And I had no one to talk to.
(crying)
1656
01:35:02,410 --> 01:35:03,787
Alright, from my end,
1657
01:35:03,828 --> 01:35:06,998
you know, and I'm sorry
that anything happened,
1658
01:35:07,082 --> 01:35:10,126
whether... I knew it or not...
1659
01:35:10,168 --> 01:35:13,838
-Angie: Mm-hmm.
-...because I honestly
remember the one time.
1660
01:35:14,255 --> 01:35:16,758
All that I was going
through with the divorce,
1661
01:35:16,841 --> 01:35:18,510
I had nowhere else to go.
1662
01:35:18,593 --> 01:35:21,805
I didn't have a job.
I had to find a job.
1663
01:35:21,846 --> 01:35:24,891
And that's when Grandma said,
"Well, you can stay here."
1664
01:35:24,974 --> 01:35:27,852
And I remember talking
to her and saying,
1665
01:35:27,936 --> 01:35:30,855
"You promise me you
will take care of Ange?"
1666
01:35:31,022 --> 01:35:34,609
I knew that Grandma loved you,
1667
01:35:34,693 --> 01:35:37,570
and that she would,
hopefully, protect you.
1668
01:35:37,654 --> 01:35:42,075
I didn't know
all that was going on.
1669
01:35:42,158 --> 01:35:47,288
To me, it's, it's
a whole, like, circle around
1670
01:35:47,372 --> 01:35:49,207
because it's,
"Well, I had to go through this.
1671
01:35:49,249 --> 01:35:51,042
I had this.
I had this bad stuff."
1672
01:35:51,084 --> 01:35:53,128
You know, is what
I always hear from you.
1673
01:35:53,211 --> 01:35:54,421
But it's--
1674
01:35:54,879 --> 01:35:57,549
No matter what
my stuff I went through,
1675
01:35:57,590 --> 01:35:59,551
it's never as big as what
1676
01:35:59,634 --> 01:36:02,053
you've had to go
through as a mom.
1677
01:36:02,095 --> 01:36:06,016
I haven't ever had, like,
a mom that has wanted to care.
1678
01:36:06,057 --> 01:36:08,393
It's more about
what you went through.
1679
01:36:12,230 --> 01:36:15,483
I don't really have
an answer. I don't.
1680
01:36:15,567 --> 01:36:19,738
I believed
that after that one time
that I confronted him
1681
01:36:19,779 --> 01:36:21,781
that he would've
never done it again.
1682
01:36:22,073 --> 01:36:24,909
And that was truly my belief.
1683
01:36:26,578 --> 01:36:29,831
(tense music playing)
1684
01:36:40,842 --> 01:36:43,094
♪♪
1685
01:36:45,180 --> 01:36:49,851
(sighs) So, this morning,
we were supposed to go
over to my mom's
1686
01:36:49,934 --> 01:36:52,604
to just do some
basic interview questions,
1687
01:36:52,645 --> 01:36:54,606
and--
1688
01:36:56,107 --> 01:37:00,445
I mean, I could tell that there
was some tension yesterday,
1689
01:37:00,528 --> 01:37:05,825
and she just sent me a message
canceling the interview,
1690
01:37:05,909 --> 01:37:10,955
which is a...
an understatement.
1691
01:37:10,997 --> 01:37:13,458
"With the false accusations
and how you feel about me,
1692
01:37:13,541 --> 01:37:16,252
"and what you think I feel
about Ange is not true.
1693
01:37:16,294 --> 01:37:18,380
"You both keep expecting
apologies out of me
1694
01:37:18,463 --> 01:37:21,299
"for things that you think
I have been wrong in.
1695
01:37:21,341 --> 01:37:25,011
"I will defend myself
at all costs when I know
it is not true.
1696
01:37:25,095 --> 01:37:28,890
God knows what I've put up with
in my life. No more."
1697
01:37:29,766 --> 01:37:32,018
(ringback tone)
1698
01:37:35,772 --> 01:37:37,774
Hi, Mom, got your message.
1699
01:37:37,816 --> 01:37:39,693
Happy to talk
through this with you,
1700
01:37:39,776 --> 01:37:44,197
uh, so if you could call me back
when you can, I'd appreciate it.
1701
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:45,865
Thanks.
1702
01:37:47,325 --> 01:37:50,286
I definitely didn't
see this coming,
1703
01:37:50,328 --> 01:37:56,501
but I would like to not have
my relationship with my mom end.
1704
01:38:04,843 --> 01:38:07,137
(gusty winds)
1705
01:38:15,687 --> 01:38:19,816
Debi (over phone):
I-I'm just sick
and tired of conflict,
1706
01:38:19,858 --> 01:38:24,487
sick and tired
of never meeting up
to the expectations.
1707
01:38:24,529 --> 01:38:29,367
I have bent over backwards
for everyone in this family.
1708
01:38:30,535 --> 01:38:31,911
No matter how much pain,
1709
01:38:31,995 --> 01:38:34,914
no matter how much
discomfort it's caused me.
1710
01:38:34,998 --> 01:38:39,753
So, I'm sorry...
but I can't do it anymore.
1711
01:38:40,670 --> 01:38:44,341
Amanda (over phone):
I'm, I'm very sorry
that it's come to that.
1712
01:38:44,382 --> 01:38:48,386
I feel like I've been
pushing more and more
1713
01:38:49,846 --> 01:38:54,601
because I thought
that it was...
1714
01:38:55,477 --> 01:38:59,522
helping to paint
a better picture for you
to know what to do.
1715
01:38:59,564 --> 01:39:02,817
If you know a bit more
about how Angie's feeling,
1716
01:39:02,901 --> 01:39:05,111
then you might know
how to respond.
1717
01:39:05,528 --> 01:39:09,616
-I've--
-Debi: Do you understand that
I do know what she feels?
1718
01:39:09,699 --> 01:39:13,036
-Because been there, done it.
-Uh, it's--
1719
01:39:13,953 --> 01:39:16,247
♪♪
1720
01:39:20,377 --> 01:39:24,214
Debi:
I feel... like
you're all adults.
1721
01:39:24,255 --> 01:39:26,257
I've ruined enough
of your life.
1722
01:39:26,341 --> 01:39:30,637
I just slip out slowly,
everybody's happy.
1723
01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:32,764
-Everybody can do
what they want...
-Amanda: That's not true.
1724
01:39:32,847 --> 01:39:35,934
Debi:
...crazy mom's not there.
That's how I feel.
1725
01:39:35,975 --> 01:39:38,269
Amanda:
That's not how I feel at all,
1726
01:39:38,311 --> 01:39:42,774
and it's not how
Ange feels in any way.
1727
01:39:42,857 --> 01:39:45,276
We love you.
You're our mom.
1728
01:39:48,446 --> 01:39:51,282
Debi:
I love you guys, but...
1729
01:39:51,700 --> 01:39:54,786
when... I keep getting...
1730
01:39:55,120 --> 01:39:59,374
the accusatory things where...
1731
01:39:59,874 --> 01:40:03,837
it doesn't matter what I say,
it doesn't matter what I do.
1732
01:40:04,337 --> 01:40:07,007
It makes me feel
like the very best thing
1733
01:40:07,090 --> 01:40:09,050
is just packin' everything up,
1734
01:40:09,134 --> 01:40:12,512
and just never talkin'
to anybody again
1735
01:40:12,595 --> 01:40:16,766
because I've messed up
everybody's lives so much.
1736
01:40:16,808 --> 01:40:19,102
♪♪
1737
01:40:35,285 --> 01:40:37,954
Amanda:
If I am sharing
my perspective of things,
1738
01:40:37,996 --> 01:40:39,456
I don't want you to feel
like that's an attack
1739
01:40:39,497 --> 01:40:42,000
because I think the one thing
that we've learned here
1740
01:40:42,042 --> 01:40:43,668
is that...
1741
01:40:44,878 --> 01:40:47,672
truth has multiple perspectives.
1742
01:40:47,714 --> 01:40:51,009
But I also want to stay open
to what each other are saying...
1743
01:40:51,092 --> 01:40:53,345
-Mm-hmm.
-...to possibly learn
something new.
1744
01:40:53,386 --> 01:40:56,598
I'm, like, not here
to attack, or judge,
or anything.
1745
01:40:57,390 --> 01:41:00,518
I'm not going to spend
my time and effort
1746
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:03,772
-when I know what is true.
-Mm-hmm.
1747
01:41:03,855 --> 01:41:08,193
-And I'm being blamed
for something that's not true.
-Can we talk about that, though?
1748
01:41:08,276 --> 01:41:10,278
'Cause I just wanna understand
what you're talking about.
1749
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:14,449
What do you feel has--
that has been said
about you is untrue?
1750
01:41:14,532 --> 01:41:19,746
There are things that have
been said about me that
1751
01:41:19,829 --> 01:41:22,457
um, that did not happen.
1752
01:41:22,540 --> 01:41:24,501
Can you tell me
specifically, though?
1753
01:41:24,542 --> 01:41:28,880
It's about many things that--
Okay, say somebody, uh, says--
1754
01:41:28,922 --> 01:41:33,843
Is-- But is-- Are--
I think the most
relevant example
1755
01:41:33,885 --> 01:41:37,180
is, like, that Ange was abused.
1756
01:41:38,765 --> 01:41:41,184
Do you feel any responsibility
1757
01:41:41,643 --> 01:41:46,064
for, not just that incident,
but all of the incidences
1758
01:41:46,147 --> 01:41:48,692
that Ange was abused
living with him?
1759
01:41:48,733 --> 01:41:52,195
Do you feel any responsibility
for h-- that having happened?
1760
01:41:52,237 --> 01:41:54,614
Of course, I feel responsible
because she's my kid
1761
01:41:54,698 --> 01:41:57,617
and I've always
wanted to protect her.
1762
01:41:57,701 --> 01:42:00,286
Yes, but then, again,
1763
01:42:01,037 --> 01:42:03,581
it was like I was guaranteed
1764
01:42:03,665 --> 01:42:07,419
that Grandma was gonna
not let her out of her sight.
1765
01:42:07,502 --> 01:42:11,548
And so, I trusted her.
I trusted her word.
1766
01:42:11,589 --> 01:42:14,426
But I-- in that conversation,
did both of you acknowledge
1767
01:42:14,467 --> 01:42:17,345
that you know
that Grandpa does this?
1768
01:42:17,429 --> 01:42:20,098
No, she did not
ever acknowledge it.
1769
01:42:20,140 --> 01:42:21,933
-Mm-hmm.
-And I'm angry at myself
1770
01:42:22,017 --> 01:42:24,728
that I didn't...
1771
01:42:24,769 --> 01:42:27,647
like, f-- kinda force her
to talk about it.
1772
01:42:28,273 --> 01:42:31,234
All along, I've known
that she's had to have known.
1773
01:42:31,276 --> 01:42:33,862
Um, how could you have
all these court hearings
1774
01:42:33,945 --> 01:42:36,156
and all the things and not know?
1775
01:42:36,448 --> 01:42:41,119
She knew, and I know that,
you know, at a certain point,
1776
01:42:41,161 --> 01:42:44,956
she realized, like,
she is... implicated.
1777
01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:46,166
She chose a side.
1778
01:42:46,249 --> 01:42:49,502
She chose to protect him
instead of her kids.
1779
01:42:49,586 --> 01:42:51,921
But we all need to take
responsibility for our role
1780
01:42:51,963 --> 01:42:54,215
in what Grandpa was able to do.
1781
01:42:55,091 --> 01:42:59,387
We have been driven to be
more angry with each other
and not Grandpa
1782
01:42:59,471 --> 01:43:01,514
when Grandpa is the reason...
1783
01:43:01,598 --> 01:43:04,642
-Mm-hmm.
-...for all of this tension,
all of the division.
1784
01:43:04,726 --> 01:43:07,145
I just want people
to be angry at him.
1785
01:43:07,187 --> 01:43:09,606
That's an unforgiveness
on your part.
1786
01:43:09,856 --> 01:43:13,651
There's a reconciling day
(chuckles) for every person
1787
01:43:13,693 --> 01:43:17,947
for what they've done
and unforgiveness is a huge one.
1788
01:43:17,989 --> 01:43:20,075
If we don't forgive somebody,
1789
01:43:20,158 --> 01:43:22,035
uh, we're held
accountable for that, too.
1790
01:43:22,118 --> 01:43:24,537
-So, I just--
-But how can you forgive
1791
01:43:24,621 --> 01:43:26,164
when nothing was done about it,
1792
01:43:26,247 --> 01:43:28,500
and he just kind of died...
1793
01:43:28,583 --> 01:43:30,794
and just managed
to get away with it.
1794
01:43:30,835 --> 01:43:33,630
If you stay angry
and can't forgive somebody,
1795
01:43:33,672 --> 01:43:35,674
you're drinkin'
the poison yourself.
1796
01:43:35,715 --> 01:43:37,634
But the act of being
angry is saying,
1797
01:43:37,676 --> 01:43:39,386
"You know what?
I'm not gonna feel that way.
1798
01:43:39,469 --> 01:43:41,763
"Fuck that.
This isn't my fault,
this is your fault.
1799
01:43:41,846 --> 01:43:44,182
And you need to be
held accountable for this."
1800
01:43:44,265 --> 01:43:46,101
You've gotta let go.
1801
01:43:46,351 --> 01:43:48,311
And that's where I'm at.
1802
01:43:49,020 --> 01:43:51,231
This last leg of my life,
1803
01:43:51,314 --> 01:43:56,194
uh, I-I just want to agree
to disagree with people,
1804
01:43:56,277 --> 01:43:58,113
and just love 'em
where they're at
1805
01:43:58,154 --> 01:44:02,409
because you cannot change
where they're at.
1806
01:44:02,492 --> 01:44:05,161
Amanda:
I do understand wanting
to move forward,
1807
01:44:05,203 --> 01:44:10,083
but healing, to me,
is you have to talk
about the hard stuff
1808
01:44:10,166 --> 01:44:12,585
if you want to move past it.
1809
01:44:15,630 --> 01:44:17,090
(sighs)
1810
01:44:17,173 --> 01:44:20,427
(light music playing)
1811
01:44:29,978 --> 01:44:32,063
(birds chirping)
1812
01:44:36,067 --> 01:44:39,738
Amanda:
I think the bizarre thing
that's happening right now
1813
01:44:39,821 --> 01:44:45,243
is my mom is leaving
for the first time in her life.
1814
01:44:45,285 --> 01:44:47,162
She has bought an RV,
1815
01:44:47,245 --> 01:44:50,874
which is something
that runs in the family,
1816
01:44:50,915 --> 01:44:55,754
and is planning on leaving
Pennsylvania for the first time,
1817
01:44:55,837 --> 01:44:59,090
and, yeah, she's just
not gonna be here.
1818
01:44:59,257 --> 01:45:02,552
(solemn music playing)
1819
01:45:06,639 --> 01:45:10,769
Now that she's leaving,
it's just kind of like,
"We tried."
1820
01:45:10,852 --> 01:45:14,314
And I just have to do
what's best for myself.
1821
01:45:18,401 --> 01:45:20,153
"Dear Mom,
1822
01:45:20,236 --> 01:45:21,488
"we've gone months
without talking,
1823
01:45:21,571 --> 01:45:22,697
"and have had
countless fights.
1824
01:45:22,781 --> 01:45:23,948
"Moments where
I wasn't sure
1825
01:45:23,990 --> 01:45:25,241
"we'd ever speak again.
1826
01:45:25,283 --> 01:45:26,618
"Banging our heads
against the wall
1827
01:45:26,659 --> 01:45:29,287
"to try and feel
understood by each other.
1828
01:45:29,371 --> 01:45:32,415
"Even though
there are many ways
we will never see eye-to-eye,
1829
01:45:32,457 --> 01:45:34,167
"I have such immense
respect for you
1830
01:45:34,250 --> 01:45:37,796
for where
you've gotten in life,
despite all the odds."
1831
01:45:37,837 --> 01:45:39,964
(deep breath)
1832
01:45:42,175 --> 01:45:44,302
I feel like she
can't give to us...
1833
01:45:44,344 --> 01:45:47,222
-Amanda: Mm-hmm.
-...what she herself doesn't
know to do for herself.
1834
01:45:47,305 --> 01:45:51,142
She's doing what
she has always done.
1835
01:45:51,393 --> 01:45:53,311
Amanda:
We just have to keep
moving forward.
1836
01:45:53,395 --> 01:45:57,148
-As much of a shitstorm
as all this is, you know.
-(Angie laughing)
1837
01:45:57,190 --> 01:46:00,985
Mom's doin' better than Grandma,
you're doin' better than Mom,
1838
01:46:01,069 --> 01:46:03,780
-and your kids are
gonna do better than you.
-Right.
1839
01:46:04,531 --> 01:46:09,494
It makes me very excited
and very proud that...
1840
01:46:10,245 --> 01:46:12,330
I chose a different way,
1841
01:46:12,956 --> 01:46:15,583
that my girls won't
have to walk through.
1842
01:46:17,002 --> 01:46:19,921
You know, and hopefully,
it propels them to be
1843
01:46:20,005 --> 01:46:22,298
better versions
of themselves, earlier,
1844
01:46:22,340 --> 01:46:26,136
where I had to walk
through a lot of crap
to become...
1845
01:46:26,177 --> 01:46:27,804
the best me.
1846
01:46:28,805 --> 01:46:30,557
(child laughing)
1847
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:33,893
(light music playing)
1848
01:46:40,525 --> 01:46:42,652
Amanda:
"I don't regret holding
you accountable
1849
01:46:42,694 --> 01:46:44,446
"for letting Ange down.
1850
01:46:44,487 --> 01:46:46,740
"But I also understand
that living in survival mode
1851
01:46:46,823 --> 01:46:49,534
"when you don't even know
how to protect yourself
1852
01:46:49,576 --> 01:46:51,411
"is a reality that's
hard to explain,
1853
01:46:51,494 --> 01:46:53,121
"but that so many
can relate to.
1854
01:46:53,204 --> 01:46:56,166
(tearful)
"Many people do not survive
the abuse you have,
1855
01:46:56,207 --> 01:46:59,085
"let alone survive facing it.
1856
01:47:00,962 --> 01:47:04,090
"I'm so sorry that you
were abused by your dad,
1857
01:47:04,174 --> 01:47:06,426
"and that your mom looked on.
1858
01:47:07,719 --> 01:47:09,304
"It must've been very lonely,
1859
01:47:09,387 --> 01:47:10,513
"and while it
wasn't your fault,
1860
01:47:10,555 --> 01:47:11,931
"it breaks my heart
1861
01:47:12,015 --> 01:47:13,933
"to imagine the shame
that you felt.
1862
01:47:14,017 --> 01:47:16,353
"And now that
is what makes me angry.
1863
01:47:16,394 --> 01:47:17,896
(sniffles)
1864
01:47:17,979 --> 01:47:19,939
♪♪
1865
01:47:21,107 --> 01:47:22,734
"You deserved better.
1866
01:47:22,817 --> 01:47:25,945
"You deserved to be heard
and to be seen
1867
01:47:26,029 --> 01:47:29,824
"and to feel safe and
protected by your parents.
1868
01:47:31,076 --> 01:47:33,745
"It would take us longer
than we'll ever be alive
1869
01:47:33,787 --> 01:47:35,663
"to ever fully
understand the ways
1870
01:47:35,747 --> 01:47:37,999
"we've each been shaped
by Grandpa's abuse.
1871
01:47:38,083 --> 01:47:40,460
"But it's my hope,
that with space, time,
1872
01:47:40,543 --> 01:47:44,214
"and individual commitment
to unpacking who this
has made each of us,
1873
01:47:44,255 --> 01:47:48,426
"that the gap
between us will all
be able to slowly close.
1874
01:47:48,843 --> 01:47:50,762
"I am honored
to have you as my mom,
1875
01:47:50,804 --> 01:47:53,306
"and to have taken
this journey with you
1876
01:47:53,390 --> 01:47:55,392
"as long
as we could together.
1877
01:47:55,433 --> 01:47:57,602
"And I hope that
in this next chapter,
1878
01:47:57,644 --> 01:48:00,939
you're able to find
the peace you deserve."
1879
01:48:02,023 --> 01:48:04,275
♪♪
1880
01:48:20,166 --> 01:48:22,252
♪♪
1881
01:48:28,425 --> 01:48:30,677
(starts engine)
1882
01:48:42,981 --> 01:48:45,025
♪♪
1883
01:48:50,071 --> 01:48:52,407
I felt like
a big breath of fresh air
1884
01:48:52,490 --> 01:48:54,576
when I got off the phone
with her last night.
1885
01:48:54,659 --> 01:48:56,995
I always was thinkin',
"I'm just gonna have to be okay
1886
01:48:57,037 --> 01:49:01,750
with her not acknowledging,
you know, my pain."
1887
01:49:01,833 --> 01:49:05,754
So, um, I didn't know
that she ever would.
1888
01:49:05,837 --> 01:49:09,007
So, that was really good
that, ya know, that, that piece
1889
01:49:09,090 --> 01:49:12,844
feels, like, kinda
completed this for me.
1890
01:49:13,094 --> 01:49:16,556
-Ugh!
-So that's really good.
(laughs)
1891
01:49:17,932 --> 01:49:21,269
-I love it!
-(Angie laughs)
1892
01:49:29,819 --> 01:49:34,032
Going back
to Harrisburg was, like,
the beginning of my--
1893
01:49:34,115 --> 01:49:36,993
I don't know if you wanna call
it a journey or processing,
1894
01:49:37,035 --> 01:49:40,830
but, like, it took
everything in me that I had
1895
01:49:40,872 --> 01:49:43,166
to go back
to the Herd Clinic.
1896
01:49:43,208 --> 01:49:45,502
Sorry, my daughter's
trying to reach me.
1897
01:49:45,543 --> 01:49:48,254
She's nine-and-a-half
months pregnant.
1898
01:49:48,338 --> 01:49:50,090
Do you,
do you mind if I just--
1899
01:49:50,173 --> 01:49:52,550
I just wanna make sure
that we're good
1900
01:49:52,592 --> 01:49:54,594
-because if she's like,
"I'm in labor."
-Yes.
1901
01:49:54,678 --> 01:49:56,805
Okay.
Go have a grandbaby.
1902
01:49:56,888 --> 01:49:57,972
(laughs)
1903
01:49:58,056 --> 01:50:00,100
♪♪
1904
01:50:26,501 --> 01:50:28,753
♪♪
1905
01:50:43,518 --> 01:50:45,770
♪♪
1906
01:50:55,530 --> 01:50:57,782
♪♪
1907
01:51:13,548 --> 01:51:15,800
♪♪
147062
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