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[Scott Tucker] When you're racing, it is like being in a fight.
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[engine revving]
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You're in a fight with a guided missile.
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The feeling of controllingsomething that could kill you.
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When you get it right,it's a very rewarding feeling.
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When you get it wrong, it could be fatal.
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[theme song playing]
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[grunting]
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[Tim Muir] Barney, you're on speaker.
This is Tim.
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[indistinct chatter]
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Listen, there is no attempt or thought
to scare anybody away.
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We know this process is happening.
We cannot stop it.
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That's not the intent.
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[indistinct chatter]
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[Scott] These are my prized possessions.
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They're coming and ripping them out of my museum at my house.
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It's not something that I really wantto watch or partake in.
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I think most people would understand.
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Prized possessions getting yanked
from your house.
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You sit there, want to be part of it
and watch it?
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No.
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I mean, it's fucking over.
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Why would I look out the window and make it more miserable for myself?
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If I thought it was going to take
this long to get 'em out of here,
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I would've been gone.
I would've left.
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People just don't understandit's scary, until it happens to them.
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Five years ago, Kim and I would have never thought about this.
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We have an army of attorneys.
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And said, "That would never happen.
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That would never happen.
I've never seen that."
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And here we are.
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[Kim Tucker] It's heartbreaking to himbecause those are his babies.
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I'd never buy anything
the government seized and sold.
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I wouldn't.
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I don't want to be a part of the process of the destruction of somebody's life.
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I don't care whether whatever they did
they were guilty of or not guilty of.
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I just wouldn't go there.
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To see them come and take those for something,
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and to know that they can take every penny you have,
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for a number in a box.
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That's all it was, a number in a box.
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[David Heath] I still think of him as just this guy in Kansas City
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who cooked up this scheme that probably went way beyond anything
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he had ever imagined.
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The Scott Tucker payday lending business
was illegal, from top to bottom.
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[Iona Gorecki] Scott Tucker walked away with over $400 million.
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Money taken from struggling consumers.
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[Ed Zabinski] This characterization of himas the evil godfather
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of the payday loan industry,
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racing cars on the backs of the poor
and underprivileged, is complete BS.
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[operator] Okay, I see you have a due dateon November 9th.
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Minimum amount due, $155, total due, $455.
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How can I assist you today?
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There are millions who are victims
of this predatory lending.
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[consumer] There have been at least four payments made on this account.
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I'm trying to figure outwhy the balance is $455.
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[Muir] It's not a criminal scheme, it's not a criminal enterprise.
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It's people trying to build a business.
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[operator] Each time the loan is not paidin full, you incur a new service charge.
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[consumer] That was not explained to me.
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[Chris Peterson] Scott Tucker was chargingtwo or three times the interest rates
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that the New York City
Mafia loan sharking syndicates charged.
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[Muir] Every single businesspersonin the country
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should be petrified by what happened.
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They're systematically taking apart
his life, piece by piece.
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[Paul Chessin] If you want to push the envelope,
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you got to be willing
to pay the consequences.
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[Muir] It is a criminal indictment
and we're facing a life sentence.
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Think about being buried alive.
Because that's what it feels like.
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[Walter Archer] I started truck driving in 2005.
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It's decent money.
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I'm not out here to get rich.
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Um, if I was, I'm in the wrong profession.
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I'm just interested in doing something
that I enjoy
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and being able to support my family.
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I have four kids.
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Dakota's twelve, Austin is nine, Emily is seven and Reesa is six.
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At the time, I was working in the gas and oil field
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and it was a slow period.
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I could see that I was going to be falling behind in bills.
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I did not have a savings to fall back on.
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I had seen Montel Williams' advertisement.
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Montel here, for Money Mutual.
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It's my guess you don't want
any services shut off.
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The answer, Money Mutual.
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I was looking to borrow $500.
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So I filled out the online forms
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for what I thought was going to be a short-term loan.
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When I took the $500,I was expecting to pay back $650.
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I knew $150 was a littleon the high scale,
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but I wasn't too worried
about paying it back.
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It was a relief to get the money.I knew I could get everything paid.
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The kids, you know, they'd still have heat.
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I knew that they wouldn't becold during the winter.
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Every payday, they started taking out
their payments of $75,
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and I never argued
'cause I was expecting it.
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The alarm bells started going off
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when I received a notice from the bankthat I was overdrawn.
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And when I started investigating,I discovered that OneClickCash
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had tried to take $950 out of my account
without my authorization.
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I told them they had already received several payments of $75,
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and it was then they started telling me,
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"No, those weren't payments towards repaying the loan.
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Those were loan renewal fees,"
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which was something that I knew nothing about until that phone call.
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Apparently, if I don't get
the loan paid in full,
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they charge me $75 to roll the loan over
and renew it.
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Those loan fees they weretaking out of my account,
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I thought were payments.
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In polite terms,
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they were trying to screw me over every way they could.
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In the crudest terms,
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they were trying to fuck me up the ass
without Vaseline.
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[footsteps approaching]
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[grunting]
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[man] Loan sharks, they got half the guysat the plant on the hook.
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Get behind on the interest payments
and this is what happens.
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All you guys have jobs.
What do you go to those fellas for?
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Some of us get in the hole gambling,
some guys got bills to pay.
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A lot of reasons, Joe.
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Why don't you go to banks
or legal loan companies?
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They want collateral, credit references.
We're bum risk for legit outfits.
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Borrowing and lending money
has been around for a long time,
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and it's always been
a dicey endeavor, hasn't it?
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[Chessin] Banks got out of the businessof making small, low-cost consumer loans.
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Consumers needed small loans
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and that's where the payday lending
industry developed.
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[Peterson] The industry grewlike wildfire.
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Before you know it, thousands and then tens of thousands
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of payday lending storefront shops crept up all across the country.
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In a lot of states, payday loans are perfectly legal
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provided you have the right license.
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But there were some states
that didn't allow it.
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Once the Internet came around,the lenders that wanted to do business
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in New York or other states where payday loans were illegal,
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simply just started offering them over the Internet.
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[Heath] Just the online partof payday lending
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was like a $10-billion-a-year business.
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There's a whole industry
built around poor people.
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[Peterson] The old-fashioned Mafialoan sharks had been put out of business
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by the payday lending industry.
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The average interest rate on payday loans
all across the country
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is about 450%, maybe 500%.
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Though they seem like they're small loans,
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they can become pernicious
in that they're a debt trap.
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[Gorecki] You're targeting the most vulnerable consumers out there.
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It's the peopleusually on their last dollar.
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Unfortunately, those people are usually
the most vulnerable to financial scams.
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[Peterson] We can't have people tearingdown the freeway at 200 miles an hour
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because it's dangerous.Things are gonna break.
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The same thing can happen
in people's lives
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when they borrow
at exceptionally high interest rates.
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[Zabinski] If you were barely making endsmeet and the brakes go out on your car,
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simple thing that happens to everybody,
it's 500 bucks.
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You don't have 500 bucks,
so now what do you do?
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Payday loans are widely considered unsavory
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by a large measure of the population
that will never need one.
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[reporter 1] Payday loan moguland race car driver Scott Tucker
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is well known on the racing circuit
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but his latest title is defendantin a federal indictment.
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[reporter 2] The feds sayTucker personally gained
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hundreds of millions of dollars,
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which he used to fund his racing teamand that he lives a lavish lifestyle.
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Tucker's attorney, Timothy Muir,left federal court
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and sped off in a black pickup.
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Muir's in trouble because the feds say he helped Tucker avoid federal laws
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by setting up some of Tucker's payday loan businesses
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to look like they were owned by Indian tribes.
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[Kim] Never in a million years did you
think what you were doing was a crime.
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And that you'd be arrested and the FBI
would come and bang on your door
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in front of your kids
and haul you out in handcuffs.
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I mean...
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It's like a dream, a nightmare.
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"Is this happening?
Wake me up."
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-You can't roll up in a ball, and...
-No.
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-And go into the fetal position...
-Sure.
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-Because it'd terrify your children...
-Right.
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...and you just kind of have to...
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You gotta fight.
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-Yeah, sure.
-Fight, flight or freeze. Right?
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Freeze, you're fucked.
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Flight, you're fucked.
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Fight, your only chance.
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It's a fight. It's a fight to the death.
That's what they want.
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The federal life sentence
is a death sentence.
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You just don't get the humanity of
actually getting a needle in your arm.
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You spend the rest of your fucking life,
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23 hours a day,
and maybe one hour a day you get the sun.
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That's a death sentence.
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[Scott] If we'd been out robbing banks,and we got caught,
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that'd have been an easy decision."Okay, you caught me."
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All of this hubbub over some
short-term loans over the Internet?
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Really?
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Really? [scoffs]
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[announcer] Back at Road Atlanta,we have a green flag
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at race four of the Ferrari Challenge.
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00:14:43,340 --> 00:14:46,802
Right away, Scott Tuckerin that black and red number 55
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takes the lead over pole-sitter Zak Brown.
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00:14:49,638 --> 00:14:53,225
There you see some sliding from race leader Scott Tucker.
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00:14:53,309 --> 00:14:55,102
How was it on the track?
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00:14:55,185 --> 00:14:58,105
You know, it's not too bad.
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It's a little dirtier,
but overall, grip pretty good.
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00:15:02,985 --> 00:15:07,281
Standing here with Norma Tucker,
Scott's mom, and my mother.
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I want your impressions and thoughts
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00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,828
after Scott's second
straight SCCA championship.
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00:15:12,912 --> 00:15:18,208
I am so happy.
I am the happiest mother in the whole...
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probably, United States right now.
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Have you enjoyed having your friends here?
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'Cause you got
a lot of support this weekend.
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Great. Yeah.
It's like a home track for us.
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Yeah, it's great. Right, Jia?
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-And this young lady here.
-Yeah?
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00:15:29,428 --> 00:15:30,262
Um...
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-Have you had a good day watching Daddy?
-Yes.
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-You're impressed?
-Look at the camera.
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Yeah.
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[all cheering]
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[Heath] It at some point dawned on methere was this guy out there,
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who was doing everything he could possibly do
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to become a sports celebrity.
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But he had this secret world where he had
this business that nobody knew about.
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Nobody knew he was
associated with it. It was hidden...
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A shell company within a shell company
within a tribe
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and he had somehow managed for years
and years and years to get by undetected.
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00:16:10,552 --> 00:16:13,514
There was a woman in Colorado,who, in late 2004,
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had taken out over $500 in loans
from two payday lenders,
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00:16:17,267 --> 00:16:18,769
and she figured out
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that they weren't really registered
to make loans in Colorado.
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So she complained to the Attorney General.
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And the Attorney General sent a reallyroutine letter to the address on the loan,
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00:16:29,738 --> 00:16:34,660
and the address was this strip mall in Carson City, Nevada.
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I enlisted the help
of the Nevada Attorney General
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and said, "What are these PO boxes?"
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And so we found out that the president officer of both companies
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was an individual by the name of James Fontano.
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At the height of our business
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we were managers, directors or officers
for about 785 companies.
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A lot of them we didn't really know because we were contacted by attorneys
239
00:17:04,732 --> 00:17:07,901
who did not always give us the exact nature of the business,
240
00:17:07,985 --> 00:17:11,488
just that they needed a certain level
of protection and anonymity,
241
00:17:11,572 --> 00:17:15,075
and so that's what we would provide.
242
00:17:15,659 --> 00:17:18,162
[Chessin] We went back to courtwith this information.
243
00:17:18,245 --> 00:17:20,080
We said we wanted contempt citations
244
00:17:20,164 --> 00:17:23,500
and contempt proceedings brought against Mr. Fontano.
245
00:17:25,210 --> 00:17:29,506
A month later, there's this document
filed from these two Indian tribes.
246
00:17:30,591 --> 00:17:35,471
They say, "Oh, nobody in Carson City owns these payday lenders. We own them."
247
00:17:36,180 --> 00:17:38,182
[Chessin] One tribe said,"We are Cash Advance,"
248
00:17:38,265 --> 00:17:41,435
and then a different tribe said,"We are Preferred Cash."
249
00:17:41,518 --> 00:17:44,730
And you can't touch us because we're Indian tribes.
250
00:17:44,813 --> 00:17:48,400
Prior to then,
we had no indication whatsoever
251
00:17:48,484 --> 00:17:50,527
that Indian tribes were involved.
252
00:18:01,663 --> 00:18:05,834
[Heath] I went to Oklahoma to meetand talk to this Indian tribe.
253
00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:08,837
To figure out, you know,
"What's going on here?"
254
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:14,093
It was totally a rural area.
255
00:18:15,010 --> 00:18:17,638
There was, essentially,
weeds and a building.
256
00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:24,228
I walked into the office that was supposedto be this huge payday lending operation.
257
00:18:25,062 --> 00:18:26,438
It was totally dead.There was nobody in there.
258
00:18:26,522 --> 00:18:29,316
It was a receptionist and maybe a guy.
259
00:18:30,192 --> 00:18:33,028
They were very friendly to me and I explained
260
00:18:33,112 --> 00:18:35,447
I was there to talk about
the payday lending business.
261
00:18:35,531 --> 00:18:37,783
They'd have somebody
get back to me. Nobody ever did.
262
00:18:39,034 --> 00:18:41,829
I thought,"There is something really wrong here,
263
00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:44,540
and I just want to know
who's actually running this business
264
00:18:44,623 --> 00:18:45,916
and why are they lying about it?"
265
00:18:50,546 --> 00:18:53,298
[Peterson] Indian tribes have something called sovereign immunity,
266
00:18:53,382 --> 00:18:58,011
which is just to say that the state government can't sue that Indian tribe.
267
00:18:58,095 --> 00:19:00,430
So a state government doesn't have the right to bring
268
00:19:00,514 --> 00:19:03,350
an Indian tribal government into court.
269
00:19:03,433 --> 00:19:06,145
The federal government can,
but state governments can't.
270
00:19:08,021 --> 00:19:11,733
The loans were still illegal.It's just that, for a technical reason,
271
00:19:11,817 --> 00:19:13,277
the sovereign immunity doctrine
272
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:17,072
doesn't allow state governments to actually enforce their law.
273
00:19:17,156 --> 00:19:18,824
[Heath] Somebody had come up with a way
274
00:19:18,907 --> 00:19:23,203
of having a payday lending business
that wasn't subject to state law.
275
00:19:36,508 --> 00:19:38,594
[Scott] I didn't have anybodyto fall back on.
276
00:19:40,679 --> 00:19:45,392
No rich parents,
no big company, no safety net.
277
00:19:47,019 --> 00:19:50,147
So I just had to rely on myself,
make my own breaks.
278
00:19:54,943 --> 00:20:00,240
So no matter what, at the end of the day,
it's up to you.
279
00:20:00,324 --> 00:20:01,325
Nobody else.
280
00:20:05,204 --> 00:20:06,997
There was no newsletter that came out and said,
281
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,750
"Hey, this is a great business." Nothing like that.
282
00:20:09,833 --> 00:20:13,045
We saw an opportunity
and my brother Blaine and I
283
00:20:14,129 --> 00:20:15,380
decided we'd give it a try.
284
00:20:17,299 --> 00:20:19,718
This is where we started it.
285
00:20:19,801 --> 00:20:23,180
A small office, down in the basement,
in a flood zone.
286
00:20:26,391 --> 00:20:29,269
When you come and see thisand then look at the space
287
00:20:29,353 --> 00:20:31,396
where we were almost 20 years later,
288
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,191
with 1,600 employees, it kinda tells a story.
289
00:20:36,068 --> 00:20:39,488
There was a lot of risk because a lot of it was unknown.
290
00:20:39,571 --> 00:20:40,989
No road maps.
291
00:20:41,698 --> 00:20:43,742
We had a trade name, called Mister Money.
292
00:20:43,825 --> 00:20:46,286
And we liked to use the word "fast cash,"
293
00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:49,331
because it described what the product was and people understood it.
294
00:20:50,499 --> 00:20:54,086
[Muir] These type of loans were advertised by Yellow Pages
295
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:57,547
or classified ads or radio spots.
296
00:20:57,631 --> 00:20:58,882
Scott took it online.
297
00:21:01,551 --> 00:21:02,970
[Scott] It didn't really take off in the beginning.
298
00:21:03,053 --> 00:21:06,890
It was stable, but we weren't setting any records, by any means.
299
00:21:06,974 --> 00:21:08,850
One of the paradigm shifts in the business
300
00:21:08,934 --> 00:21:11,728
was being able to adapt it
to the Internet.
301
00:21:12,688 --> 00:21:16,692
I was more involved inthe technology and marketing side of it.
302
00:21:17,818 --> 00:21:23,448
Blaine, he did more of the human resource,management, employee things like that.
303
00:21:23,532 --> 00:21:28,996
He played a pivotal role in the growthand, you know, I was lucky to have him.
304
00:21:29,621 --> 00:21:33,709
[Muir] When it was operating at its peak,there was over 1,200 employees.
305
00:21:33,792 --> 00:21:37,629
Even with 1,200 people, it was a family.And that's really what Blaine did.
306
00:21:37,713 --> 00:21:40,132
Blaine knew all 1,200 and they all knew him.
307
00:21:41,174 --> 00:21:44,803
At its zenith, it would have hit
a billion dollars in annual revenue.
308
00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:54,563
[Anita Finney] It was the most loving,energetic family that just grew.
309
00:21:54,646 --> 00:21:57,441
It was exciting to hear people on the phone...
310
00:21:57,524 --> 00:22:02,571
You walk up and down the aislesand hear people happy to do their job.
311
00:22:02,654 --> 00:22:05,240
Caring for each other.
312
00:22:05,324 --> 00:22:12,164
It was the best place
that I have ever been in my life.
313
00:22:14,958 --> 00:22:16,918
[Scott] I mean, I loved what we did.
314
00:22:17,002 --> 00:22:21,131
Most people will say that's bullshit,
but we did a good job at it.
315
00:22:22,382 --> 00:22:26,344
If you would call one of the millions
of customers and say,
316
00:22:27,179 --> 00:22:30,140
"Why did you come back
and use this product and service?"
317
00:22:30,223 --> 00:22:32,350
And they said,
"Because it was fast, simple and easy,
318
00:22:32,434 --> 00:22:34,936
and the company did exactly
what they said they would."
319
00:22:35,020 --> 00:22:36,772
It doesn't get much better.
320
00:22:41,276 --> 00:22:44,321
You know, the old saying.
321
00:22:44,404 --> 00:22:47,074
Well, it's not,
"Careful what you wish for." That's one.
322
00:22:47,157 --> 00:22:49,826
"No good deed goes unpunished."
323
00:22:57,292 --> 00:22:59,252
[indistinct chatter]
324
00:23:08,553 --> 00:23:10,222
[Archer] OneClickCash kept calling me.
325
00:23:10,305 --> 00:23:13,475
Their attitude was, "You owe us money,
326
00:23:13,558 --> 00:23:17,479
and we're going to do anything and
everything we have to do to make you pay."
327
00:23:45,257 --> 00:23:48,802
It was infuriating.I was trying to reason with them.
328
00:23:48,885 --> 00:23:51,096
I wasn't trying to get outof paying the loan.
329
00:23:51,179 --> 00:23:53,473
I borrowed the money,I rightfully owe it back.
330
00:23:53,557 --> 00:23:58,645
But, at the same time,
I was not willing to be taken advantage of
331
00:23:58,728 --> 00:24:05,652
and borrow $500 and end up paying
$1,000, $2,000, $3,000 back.
332
00:24:05,735 --> 00:24:07,028
I wasn't going to do it.
333
00:24:07,112 --> 00:24:08,655
Because why?
334
00:24:08,738 --> 00:24:12,742
When I told them not to call back,federal communication rules state
335
00:24:12,826 --> 00:24:15,453
if I tell you to stop calling me, you have to stop.
336
00:24:15,537 --> 00:24:17,622
It was at that point they said,
337
00:24:17,706 --> 00:24:21,001
"We're with the Indian tribe.
We can do what we want."
338
00:24:24,546 --> 00:24:27,215
I don't care if you're an Indian tribe or not.
339
00:24:27,299 --> 00:24:32,053
I don't care if you're Mexican, American, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish.
340
00:24:32,137 --> 00:24:33,471
Martian.
341
00:24:34,598 --> 00:24:36,308
You need to abide by the laws
342
00:24:36,391 --> 00:24:39,644
regardless as to whether you are a nation within a nation,
343
00:24:39,728 --> 00:24:43,440
you're still in the United States
and you should follow United States law.
344
00:24:48,278 --> 00:24:49,362
[Chief Bill Follis] I'll tell you a story.
345
00:24:49,446 --> 00:24:53,158
I was sitting at home one night,phone rang and it's this lady.
346
00:24:53,241 --> 00:24:56,119
My dad borrowed $300
or something like that...
347
00:24:56,203 --> 00:24:57,245
Blah, blah, blah.
348
00:24:57,329 --> 00:24:59,956
And he's getting charged
this interest rate.
349
00:25:01,666 --> 00:25:03,126
And I says, "Just a minute."
350
00:25:03,210 --> 00:25:06,755
I says, "How did you get my name?"
351
00:25:06,838 --> 00:25:10,467
She said, "I called the police department
and asked who is chief of the Modocs."
352
00:25:10,550 --> 00:25:12,719
[chuckling] And got my number.
353
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,932
I didn't like it very well
and I told Scott about it.
354
00:25:21,311 --> 00:25:25,523
We were shipped herein the 1800s as prisoners of war.
355
00:25:25,607 --> 00:25:28,693
In fact, 1873,
if you wanna get the dates right.
356
00:25:29,736 --> 00:25:33,657
Oklahoma was a deposit areafor the tribes.
357
00:25:33,740 --> 00:25:35,283
From the east to the west.
358
00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:37,077
I'm the only Northwest tribe.
359
00:25:38,745 --> 00:25:40,956
Not only did they take our land,
360
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:44,668
but our resources and all for big business.
361
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,006
We lost our language. We lost our culture.
362
00:25:50,090 --> 00:25:53,802
The accountability
has never been established
363
00:25:53,885 --> 00:25:56,263
in the United States government
as far as I'm concerned.
364
00:26:00,016 --> 00:26:04,229
The representative from Kansas
that I knew contacted me, said,
365
00:26:04,312 --> 00:26:10,110
"I have a person that wants to talk to you
about the loan business."
366
00:26:10,777 --> 00:26:14,990
And I didn't know Scott,but he vouched for Scott.
367
00:26:15,073 --> 00:26:17,033
So that's good enough for me.
368
00:26:19,494 --> 00:26:23,415
It was his idea and he conveyed it to usand we accepted.
369
00:26:23,498 --> 00:26:24,958
It's just that simple.
370
00:26:26,084 --> 00:26:32,340
Idea was we use our sovereignty,we set it up, we get so much money
371
00:26:32,424 --> 00:26:34,426
and that satisfied me.
372
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:39,472
It was a business deal and it was a very successful business deal.
373
00:26:39,556 --> 00:26:43,435
I guess my confidence
in Scott Tucker made it work.
374
00:26:47,188 --> 00:26:48,940
Hi, how are you?
375
00:26:53,236 --> 00:26:56,698
I can say this,
it was just right up there with gaming.
376
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,040
In profitability, gaming's here,
377
00:27:05,123 --> 00:27:07,500
loan business is here,
instead of down here.
378
00:27:10,337 --> 00:27:11,463
Hi, Sheriff.
379
00:27:12,714 --> 00:27:13,715
Okay.
380
00:27:13,798 --> 00:27:16,092
We've deposited all our moneyin the banks here
381
00:27:16,176 --> 00:27:17,886
and then it goes in funds.
382
00:27:17,969 --> 00:27:21,181
We buy land, we help peoplewith their home improvements.
383
00:27:24,142 --> 00:27:27,937
Our money goes right back to the people.It's the people's money.
384
00:27:28,021 --> 00:27:31,066
It's not my money, it's the tribal people's money.
385
00:27:34,277 --> 00:27:36,237
We loan to people.
386
00:27:36,321 --> 00:27:40,241
Sure, it's high interest rate. A lot of people doesn't like that.
387
00:27:40,325 --> 00:27:44,162
But these are people that could not get money anywhere else.
388
00:27:44,245 --> 00:27:46,331
Like I say, we operated legally.
389
00:27:46,414 --> 00:27:51,753
We have not done anything illegal,
but we've been accused of it.
390
00:29:16,296 --> 00:29:19,424
[Gorecki] Scott Tucker ran AMG Services, undoubtedly.
391
00:29:19,507 --> 00:29:24,012
He was the one who brought the business
to the tribes in proposals.
392
00:29:24,095 --> 00:29:25,722
He was the one who built up the company.
393
00:29:26,556 --> 00:29:29,225
AMG's loan portfolios represented
394
00:29:29,309 --> 00:29:32,812
the highest volume payday lending operation in the United States.
395
00:29:32,896 --> 00:29:36,900
They used loan documents and disclosuresthat didn't seem to reflect
396
00:29:36,983 --> 00:29:40,111
what they were actually asking consumers to pay back.
397
00:29:40,195 --> 00:29:42,739
So after the tribal jurisdiction issue
was resolved,
398
00:29:42,822 --> 00:29:44,365
the next step was showing that
399
00:29:44,449 --> 00:29:46,409
the loan documents
were actually deceptive.
400
00:29:48,328 --> 00:29:52,582
A lot of the consumer victimswe talked to were struggling individuals.
401
00:29:52,665 --> 00:29:55,001
They were living, usually,paycheck to paycheck.
402
00:29:55,084 --> 00:29:56,419
And a lot of times, in between paychecks
403
00:29:56,503 --> 00:30:00,215
they would find themselves short
maybe $200, $300.
404
00:30:00,298 --> 00:30:03,051
And so, many of them would go online
and they'd do a search.
405
00:30:03,134 --> 00:30:04,844
They'd search for a payday loan.
406
00:30:06,721 --> 00:30:08,348
They would fill out the loan application.
407
00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:13,269
At the end, they were asked to check four boxes
408
00:30:13,353 --> 00:30:16,523
indicating they understood
all of the loan terms.
409
00:30:16,606 --> 00:30:20,527
Each of those four boxes correspondedto various hyperlinked documents
410
00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:21,945
they were supposed to have read.
411
00:30:22,028 --> 00:30:26,366
The loan document that sets out
the terms of the loan has a box.
412
00:30:26,449 --> 00:30:27,909
We call it the TILA box.
413
00:30:28,868 --> 00:30:31,412
It laid outhow much money you were taking out.
414
00:30:31,496 --> 00:30:35,834
So, let's take $300, for example,which was the most common loan.
415
00:30:35,917 --> 00:30:38,002
That would be the amount you're borrowing.
416
00:30:38,086 --> 00:30:42,632
It would lay out a finance charge.For $300, usually $90.
417
00:30:42,715 --> 00:30:46,678
And it would tell you the total of payments, $390.
418
00:30:46,761 --> 00:30:48,054
Then you'd accept the loan.
419
00:30:48,137 --> 00:30:50,014
The reality was very different, though.
420
00:30:51,933 --> 00:30:53,768
After two weeks, on the payday,
421
00:30:53,852 --> 00:30:57,105
the consumer would see $90come out of their account.
422
00:30:57,188 --> 00:30:59,941
And then in another two weeks, they'd see another $90 come out.
423
00:31:00,024 --> 00:31:02,527
In another two weeks, another $90.
424
00:31:02,610 --> 00:31:05,405
At that point, they've paid off $360.
425
00:31:05,488 --> 00:31:08,616
And they figure, $30 more to $390.
426
00:31:09,158 --> 00:31:12,954
On the next pay period,they'd see $140 come out.
427
00:31:13,037 --> 00:31:15,874
At which point, the consumer becomes tipped off
428
00:31:15,957 --> 00:31:19,043
that something's wrong, not right.And they call in.
429
00:31:19,127 --> 00:31:22,088
And during that call,
they would be told that
430
00:31:22,171 --> 00:31:26,426
because they didn't act
to pay the loan off
431
00:31:26,509 --> 00:31:28,595
in full on their first pay period,
432
00:31:28,678 --> 00:31:31,180
something that they had to proactively do,
433
00:31:31,264 --> 00:31:35,810
the loan simply got renewed every
two weeks, every two weeks, over and over,
434
00:31:35,894 --> 00:31:39,230
and none of the $360
that they had already paid
435
00:31:39,314 --> 00:31:41,649
was applied to their principal at all.
436
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,737
If this process were to continue to its resolution,
437
00:31:45,820 --> 00:31:47,697
the way it was structured to do,
438
00:31:47,780 --> 00:31:52,827
$300 would end up costing consumers $975 in total.
439
00:33:04,899 --> 00:33:07,360
You can hear the dismay in their voice
440
00:33:07,443 --> 00:33:10,029
when they realize
they've paid all this money
441
00:33:10,113 --> 00:33:14,993
and all of it has been in finance charges.
The principal is still there, untouched.
442
00:33:17,745 --> 00:33:20,581
[Nikhil Singhvi] The money bag documentwas one of several smoking guns
443
00:33:20,665 --> 00:33:25,211
showing the employees knew
consumers were confused.
444
00:33:25,294 --> 00:33:26,671
That they were ripping consumers off.
445
00:33:28,131 --> 00:33:29,549
[Gorecki] What it showed was
446
00:33:29,632 --> 00:33:32,927
AMG employees and managersknew how the loan worked.
447
00:33:33,011 --> 00:33:35,555
They just weren't willing to tell consumers that.
448
00:33:37,557 --> 00:33:40,852
We asked some consumers to send us their loan documents,
449
00:33:40,935 --> 00:33:42,603
to see what they said.
450
00:33:43,688 --> 00:33:45,606
And it became very clear to us,
451
00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:48,484
just from a very brief reading of the document,
452
00:33:48,568 --> 00:33:53,197
that a reasonable consumer would have absolutely no idea how this loan worked.
453
00:33:53,281 --> 00:33:54,615
The language is confusing.
454
00:33:54,699 --> 00:33:57,243
It's full of sentences that are interrupted
455
00:33:57,326 --> 00:34:02,331
by other information that's unrelated and not relevant to the loan terms.
456
00:34:02,415 --> 00:34:06,085
In court, AMG challenged our determination this was deceptive.
457
00:34:06,169 --> 00:34:08,755
And, actually, in one of their filings,
458
00:34:08,838 --> 00:34:14,093
their attorneys pulled out
specific sentences from the fine print...
459
00:34:15,470 --> 00:34:19,390
and sort of set 'em up one after another, and then told the judge,
460
00:34:19,474 --> 00:34:23,227
"Look, judge, it's very clear.The loan was clearly explained.
461
00:34:23,311 --> 00:34:26,773
Here are all the ways that we disclosed to consumers how it worked."
462
00:34:29,609 --> 00:34:32,862
A reasonable consumer wouldn't understand this language
463
00:34:32,945 --> 00:34:34,822
and a reasonable consumer
shouldn't need an attorney
464
00:34:34,906 --> 00:34:36,908
standing there right next to them,
465
00:34:36,991 --> 00:34:40,244
pointing the different places
and the order of the sentences
466
00:34:40,328 --> 00:34:42,205
to help them understand
how the loan works.
467
00:34:44,248 --> 00:34:46,042
[Scott] We didn't think the loan note was confusing.
468
00:34:46,125 --> 00:34:47,835
It was a standard industry practice.
469
00:34:47,919 --> 00:34:51,589
It'd been in the business for, you know, probably ten years.
470
00:34:52,298 --> 00:34:55,176
Customers knew the process, the renewal.
471
00:34:55,259 --> 00:34:58,429
If they didn't pay off,
they would incur more finance charges.
472
00:34:59,013 --> 00:35:01,057
The FTC loved to talk about fine print
473
00:35:01,682 --> 00:35:05,436
and conveniently ignore
all of the other communications
474
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,606
that the lenders took
to inform the consumers,
475
00:35:08,689 --> 00:35:11,275
"Here's what's gonna happen,"
and the consumers knew it.
476
00:35:12,068 --> 00:35:14,654
There were multiple e-mails,
477
00:35:14,737 --> 00:35:17,782
confirmation e-mails, payment reminder e-mails,
478
00:35:17,865 --> 00:35:22,370
explanation e-mails, that went to the consumers that explained,
479
00:35:22,453 --> 00:35:26,332
"If you did nothing, if you did not take any action,
480
00:35:26,415 --> 00:35:28,459
this loan would be renewed,
481
00:35:28,543 --> 00:35:31,337
and you would not make any payment towards principal.
482
00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:34,423
It would only pay your finance charge,
and we would renew it."
483
00:35:34,507 --> 00:35:39,637
And that model has been used
in the industry for...
484
00:35:40,638 --> 00:35:43,808
[stutters] as long as I can remember.
485
00:35:43,891 --> 00:35:46,686
What he's saying is that model,
486
00:35:46,769 --> 00:35:52,150
that was an industry standard model
used by over a hundred different lenders.
487
00:35:56,737 --> 00:35:59,907
Sure, no, I can give you some examples
on how that would work.
488
00:35:59,991 --> 00:36:03,911
When I started working there,
things started to take off for them.
489
00:36:03,995 --> 00:36:05,746
It turned into a big machine.
490
00:36:07,540 --> 00:36:13,004
It went from a tight-knit family thing to a full-on corporate atmosphere.
491
00:36:13,087 --> 00:36:14,547
We do that four times, starting...
492
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:16,966
[former employee] Scott and Blaine kept to themselves.
493
00:36:17,049 --> 00:36:20,428
Eagles fly with eagles,
494
00:36:20,511 --> 00:36:27,351
so all the top brass,
they would be amongst themselves.
495
00:36:30,271 --> 00:36:35,693
I was always told that everything that
we were doing was legal. [chuckles]
496
00:36:35,776 --> 00:36:39,864
People need payday loans to get by,
so maybe I justified it that way.
497
00:36:41,282 --> 00:36:44,410
It was toxic, at times.
498
00:36:47,246 --> 00:36:48,080
[Ivan Valdivia] All they said was...
499
00:36:48,164 --> 00:36:51,876
"Our company's owned
by an Indian tribe in Oklahoma.
500
00:36:51,959 --> 00:36:57,548
And if anybody calls and asks you
where you are, where you're located,
501
00:36:57,632 --> 00:37:00,009
you're located here in Miami, Oklahoma."
502
00:37:00,092 --> 00:37:01,510
That was in training in day one.
503
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:04,180
You couldn't use your cell phone in the building.
504
00:37:04,263 --> 00:37:06,766
You'd have to use your cell phonein the parking lot.
505
00:37:06,849 --> 00:37:08,059
Now, looking back,
506
00:37:08,142 --> 00:37:12,146
they didn't want to have pictures
of their facility taken at all,
507
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:14,273
'cause we weren't supposed to be
in Kansas.
508
00:37:15,942 --> 00:37:18,194
I didn't think we were doing anything wrong.
509
00:37:18,277 --> 00:37:21,405
I didn't think they were trying
to hide anything, but obviously they were.
510
00:37:55,314 --> 00:37:57,817
AMG Services tried very hard
to make it look
511
00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:00,027
like they were a tribally run business.
512
00:38:01,028 --> 00:38:03,698
Really, nothing was happening on tribal land.
513
00:38:03,781 --> 00:38:06,200
It was all done in Overland Park, Kansas.
514
00:38:07,243 --> 00:38:09,370
The three tribesthat they were working with
515
00:38:09,453 --> 00:38:11,706
were in Oklahoma and Nebraska.
516
00:38:11,789 --> 00:38:14,750
And so when consumers called in
to talk about their loans,
517
00:38:15,334 --> 00:38:19,839
representatives were told to pretendthat they were in Oklahoma or Nebraska.
518
00:38:19,922 --> 00:38:21,924
As a way of making small talk with consumers,
519
00:38:22,008 --> 00:38:26,345
the managers would e-mail around a daily weather report for the two states
520
00:38:26,429 --> 00:38:27,513
because they said,
521
00:38:27,596 --> 00:38:30,099
"Let's make sure you have
the right weather to talk about."
522
00:38:34,478 --> 00:38:39,692
I mean, that was an operational decision
made by a manager.
523
00:38:39,775 --> 00:38:42,945
And there was only one of them
that did that.
524
00:38:43,029 --> 00:38:49,035
And we're not really familiar with
how many people they said that to,
525
00:38:49,118 --> 00:38:50,911
what the protocol on that was,
526
00:38:50,995 --> 00:38:53,914
but it was something
that we weren't aware of.
527
00:38:53,998 --> 00:38:56,292
They weren't my employees.
528
00:38:56,375 --> 00:38:59,587
The employees that work for me
work on the software program
529
00:38:59,670 --> 00:39:02,089
and the platform.
530
00:39:02,173 --> 00:39:08,012
But they were all employed,
for the most part,
531
00:39:08,095 --> 00:39:12,308
by one or more of the tribes.
532
00:39:12,391 --> 00:39:14,310
They worked for the tribes themselves.
533
00:39:14,393 --> 00:39:18,731
It was their business,
their power and their control.
534
00:39:23,486 --> 00:39:25,613
[Singhvi] We had so much other evidence that
535
00:39:25,696 --> 00:39:28,199
this appearance of a tribal operation
was a façade.
536
00:39:41,837 --> 00:39:44,298
[Gorecki] Carolyn Williamsused to be an employee
537
00:39:44,382 --> 00:39:46,467
of one of the tribes, the Miami tribe.
538
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:51,972
She worked for Don Brady, who, on paper,was listed as CEO of AMG Services.
539
00:39:52,056 --> 00:39:55,309
In reality,
he really didn't do much at all.
540
00:39:56,018 --> 00:39:58,479
Carolyn became increasingly uncomfortable
541
00:39:58,562 --> 00:40:00,564
with the types of things they were talking about
542
00:40:00,648 --> 00:40:05,361
and so she began to make a few recordings
of her conversations with Don Brady.
543
00:40:34,807 --> 00:40:38,060
[Gorecki] Her recordings and testimony were key in showing
544
00:40:38,144 --> 00:40:41,397
that, really, Scott Tucker was the one who was in charge.
545
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,151
He was the one running the show.
Really, he was the key person,
546
00:40:45,234 --> 00:40:48,320
the key actor
in this entire business operation.
547
00:40:48,904 --> 00:40:52,283
[Singhvi] Employees were quizzed on the top management of the company,
548
00:40:52,366 --> 00:40:55,453
and the correct answers were Scott Tucker and Blaine Tucker.
549
00:40:55,536 --> 00:40:58,789
Norma Tucker, their mother, shows up on the payroll.
550
00:40:58,873 --> 00:41:03,169
Kim Tucker was also on the payroll,but her involvement in our case
551
00:41:03,252 --> 00:41:06,589
was basically as the beneficiary of $19 million in cash
552
00:41:06,672 --> 00:41:10,259
that Scott Tucker basically bundled from the tribal accounts
553
00:41:10,342 --> 00:41:12,761
and sent over to her.
554
00:41:12,845 --> 00:41:15,139
[Gorecki] In fact,the tribes were deriving
555
00:41:15,222 --> 00:41:18,767
only 1% of gross collected revenue
from these companies.
556
00:41:18,851 --> 00:41:22,563
99% of those revenues were going
to Scott Tucker and his companies.
557
00:41:22,646 --> 00:41:25,816
The tribal accounts
were practically his piggy bank.
558
00:41:33,824 --> 00:41:36,118
[Zabinski] I got a call from one of Scott's assistants, who said,
559
00:41:36,202 --> 00:41:38,787
"Hey, my boss wants to go race cars.
560
00:41:38,871 --> 00:41:40,831
He's ordered a car
and he's looking for a coach."
561
00:41:43,542 --> 00:41:46,045
And I said, "How much experience
does your boss have?"
562
00:41:46,128 --> 00:41:48,714
They said, "He doesn't have
any experience."
563
00:41:50,549 --> 00:41:53,969
You look at it on the surface, you've never driven a race car,
564
00:41:54,053 --> 00:41:57,473
you're gonna go buy a $300,000 car with 500 horsepower
565
00:41:58,265 --> 00:42:00,309
and go figure it out.
566
00:42:00,392 --> 00:42:01,560
And he wasn't a natural.
567
00:42:03,812 --> 00:42:05,397
I love Scott, but he's not burdened
568
00:42:05,481 --> 00:42:09,276
with a great deal of natural ability when it comes to driving race cars.
569
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,405
He had to work harder, I think, than anybody else.
570
00:42:14,365 --> 00:42:18,452
And now he's a fantastic driver.
Really, really a top driver.
571
00:42:20,496 --> 00:42:23,123
Most guys that are determined to race the Ferrari Challenge
572
00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:25,626
have enough fundingthat it's not a big deal for them
573
00:42:25,709 --> 00:42:28,462
to afford to go racing,'cause it's an expensive endeavor,
574
00:42:28,546 --> 00:42:29,880
as you might imagine.
575
00:42:32,383 --> 00:42:35,386
I honestly don't know how many full-time employees there were.
576
00:42:35,469 --> 00:42:37,721
But I know it was an army of humanity.
577
00:42:38,847 --> 00:42:40,975
And we were unstoppable.
578
00:42:41,058 --> 00:42:41,976
[all cheering]
579
00:42:42,059 --> 00:42:44,353
Nobody on our team gave a shit
how Scott made his money.
580
00:42:44,436 --> 00:42:45,271
We didn't really care.
581
00:42:52,486 --> 00:42:54,822
He's a really shy guy.
582
00:42:54,905 --> 00:42:57,700
He didn't do any of this to get any attention.
583
00:42:57,783 --> 00:43:01,453
As we started to move up in the sport, and get to where we were racing
584
00:43:01,537 --> 00:43:05,958
on television and more in the public eye,
it was a vulnerability for him.
585
00:43:08,544 --> 00:43:11,255
For endurance racing,
he was in fact a celebrity.
586
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,091
He was very conscious of his image.
587
00:43:15,509 --> 00:43:18,554
He had a reporter who followed him around
588
00:43:18,637 --> 00:43:21,390
and asked him questions
and posted the videos on YouTube.
589
00:43:21,473 --> 00:43:23,809
Is it difficult to adjust
when that happens?
590
00:43:23,892 --> 00:43:28,147
You gotta get a couple laps in you to...
Yeah, you get acclimated to it.
591
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:30,816
[Heath] That was some employee of hiswho was doing it
592
00:43:30,899 --> 00:43:32,568
and acting as a reporter.
593
00:43:33,277 --> 00:43:35,237
He had a documentary made,
594
00:43:35,321 --> 00:43:40,034
and then he had a glowing profile
done on him in the Wall Street Journal.
595
00:43:40,618 --> 00:43:41,827
It was really weird.
596
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:44,705
Given his background, given what he did for a living,
597
00:43:44,788 --> 00:43:47,499
it struck me as very odd
that he would want to become a celebrity.
598
00:43:48,834 --> 00:43:51,086
[Zabinski] He is only guiltyof being smart or...
599
00:43:51,170 --> 00:43:55,424
Actually, you know what?
He's also guilty of being clever.
600
00:43:55,507 --> 00:43:57,301
And clever pisses people off.
601
00:43:58,636 --> 00:44:01,889
He attributes the whole idea of the Indian gaming thing
602
00:44:01,972 --> 00:44:05,309
to something that I taught him, which is "race the rulebook."
603
00:44:06,518 --> 00:44:08,270
If I'm racing in a series,
604
00:44:08,354 --> 00:44:12,816
and there's a rulebook that's this thick
for guys with white drivers
605
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:17,279
and there's a rulebook that's thick
for guys with Native American drivers,
606
00:44:17,363 --> 00:44:20,449
I'm gonna start hiring
Native American drivers, man.
607
00:44:20,532 --> 00:44:23,577
Because this is the way to go.
It's easier. It'll be simpler.
608
00:44:23,661 --> 00:44:25,245
[tires screeching]
609
00:44:27,206 --> 00:44:29,833
I don't think he was trying to
hide anything from the government.
610
00:44:29,917 --> 00:44:31,126
I think he was just racing.
611
00:45:06,078 --> 00:45:07,287
[Gorecki] The payday lending business
612
00:45:07,371 --> 00:45:11,041
was an incredibly profitable business for Scott Tucker.
613
00:45:12,668 --> 00:45:16,922
He made at least $400 million from this business.
614
00:45:18,590 --> 00:45:22,010
A lot of which was routed
to his racing business,
615
00:45:22,094 --> 00:45:24,054
to his shell corporations,
616
00:45:24,138 --> 00:45:27,891
to buying expensive vehicles like Ferraris and Porsches,
617
00:45:27,975 --> 00:45:32,146
to the $8 million Aspen house
that he bought for himself and his wife.
618
00:45:32,229 --> 00:45:33,355
He also had a private jet,
619
00:45:33,439 --> 00:45:38,152
so lots of money on jet travel, vacations, you name it.
620
00:45:39,445 --> 00:45:42,322
All of this was funded
with consumer funds, consumer money.
621
00:45:46,535 --> 00:45:48,537
[Singhvi] This happened to 1.5 million people
622
00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:52,624
and it caused $1.3 billion dollars in damage.
623
00:45:52,708 --> 00:45:54,543
Those are astronomical numbers,
624
00:45:54,626 --> 00:45:56,962
but they cause you
to lose perspective sometimes.
625
00:45:57,045 --> 00:46:00,090
That those are
1.5 million individual stories
626
00:46:00,174 --> 00:46:02,843
of people who were living
paycheck to paycheck.
627
00:46:02,926 --> 00:46:03,760
They were struggling.
628
00:46:06,054 --> 00:46:09,892
[Gorecki] It wasn't just about enforcingthe law, which we always want to do,
629
00:46:09,975 --> 00:46:12,686
but it was getting justice for these consumers
630
00:46:12,769 --> 00:46:14,521
and getting refunds for them.
631
00:46:14,605 --> 00:46:17,441
It's hard to read through
so many complaints
632
00:46:17,524 --> 00:46:19,610
and listen to so many consumer calls,
633
00:46:19,693 --> 00:46:24,323
and not be moved by the misery
and the hardship
634
00:46:24,406 --> 00:46:26,617
these companies imposed on consumers.
635
00:46:28,368 --> 00:46:29,870
[operator] How can I help you today?
636
00:46:29,953 --> 00:46:34,041
[consumer] I owed $500 in October
637
00:46:34,124 --> 00:46:37,419
and my balance is $650,
638
00:46:37,503 --> 00:46:41,840
and they've been taking money out of my account.
639
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,762
[operators and consumers
speaking indistinctly]
640
00:47:07,115 --> 00:47:10,536
[Gorecki] The court agreed with our 1.3 billion calculation
641
00:47:10,619 --> 00:47:12,204
and awarded that.
642
00:47:13,497 --> 00:47:15,624
I believe the $1.3 billion
643
00:47:15,707 --> 00:47:19,670
was the largest litigated judgment
that the FTC has ever obtained.
644
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,222
[Peterson] The Federal Trade Commission won a very large judgment,
645
00:47:30,305 --> 00:47:31,807
over a billion dollars.
646
00:47:33,475 --> 00:47:37,813
That strikes me as an appropriate measure of the amount of harm
647
00:47:37,896 --> 00:47:41,358
associated with the illegal practices
in these lending transactions.
648
00:47:46,321 --> 00:47:49,658
[Scott] Does it piss me off?
Fuck, yeah, it pisses me off.
649
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:56,665
Fucking take it.
I don't give a fuck about it.
650
00:47:56,748 --> 00:47:59,084
I could give two... fuck it.
Two... fuck it.
651
00:47:59,167 --> 00:48:00,877
Sure, give it to 'em.
652
00:48:00,961 --> 00:48:02,629
Okay with that.
653
00:48:02,713 --> 00:48:04,965
Hey, we'll do that. Fucking take it.
654
00:48:05,048 --> 00:48:07,426
I don't give a fuck about that thing.
655
00:48:22,024 --> 00:48:25,193
[Heath] It was clearthat the business was crashing down,
656
00:48:25,277 --> 00:48:27,279
and they would have to pay back all this money.
657
00:48:27,362 --> 00:48:32,784
And then Blaine Tucker
was found in a car in a shopping mall,
658
00:48:32,868 --> 00:48:37,831
I think in Kansas City or Overland Park,
and apparently he'd killed himself.
659
00:48:42,711 --> 00:48:45,005
[Zabinski] Blaine's gone.He doesn't exist anymore.
660
00:48:45,088 --> 00:48:47,591
I loved Blaine.
I thought he was a terrific guy.
661
00:48:47,674 --> 00:48:49,092
I blame the government for that.
662
00:48:51,762 --> 00:48:55,932
In a very real sense, the actions of the government have caused a death.
663
00:48:56,016 --> 00:48:59,061
In my view, they've killed somebody.
664
00:49:02,481 --> 00:49:07,277
[Scott] Blaine was... You know, this was devastating to him.
665
00:49:07,361 --> 00:49:08,904
All of this.
666
00:49:08,987 --> 00:49:11,490
We were proud of what we built,
667
00:49:11,573 --> 00:49:16,328
and we thought we did the best we could, the right way we could.
668
00:49:17,371 --> 00:49:23,502
The amount of pressure that these
government agencies can put on you,
669
00:49:23,585 --> 00:49:26,004
it's unfathomable.
670
00:49:27,089 --> 00:49:31,218
For them to come in and just, I mean, kneecap you.
671
00:49:32,094 --> 00:49:36,515
That's just starts.I mean, it was devastating.
672
00:49:37,307 --> 00:49:39,434
He was my best friend.
673
00:49:39,518 --> 00:49:41,353
[sniffling]
674
00:49:59,454 --> 00:50:03,625
And we worked together for so long.
675
00:50:03,709 --> 00:50:05,877
Um, yeah, it's...
676
00:50:06,670 --> 00:50:07,754
[clicks tongue]
677
00:50:11,049 --> 00:50:12,300
[sniffles]
678
00:50:12,384 --> 00:50:15,971
Tough time.
And, you know, how it happened.
679
00:50:22,185 --> 00:50:23,603
[sniffles]
680
00:50:27,858 --> 00:50:29,317
[clicks tongue and inhales sharply]
681
00:50:29,401 --> 00:50:33,113
You know, I'm the one
who had to go identify him.
682
00:50:33,196 --> 00:50:34,865
[breathing shakily]
683
00:50:44,708 --> 00:50:47,127
And I'm the one who had to go tell my mom.
684
00:50:58,764 --> 00:51:00,974
[sniffles and sighs]
685
00:51:24,331 --> 00:51:25,832
[Muir] I find the FTC's playbook
686
00:51:25,916 --> 00:51:29,920
just fundamentally repulsive and repugnant to due process of law.
687
00:51:30,003 --> 00:51:32,214
And every businessperson in this country
688
00:51:32,297 --> 00:51:33,924
should be petrified by what happened.
689
00:51:37,427 --> 00:51:40,263
[Kim] Because I'm married to Scott,
690
00:51:40,347 --> 00:51:44,267
in the government's eyes, it seems to me I...
691
00:51:45,602 --> 00:51:48,730
just might as well be him.
692
00:51:52,984 --> 00:51:59,407
They can just say,"Everything she has, we get."
693
00:52:01,535 --> 00:52:06,081
I'm not allowed to have a credit card. I'm not allowed to use a debit card.
694
00:52:06,164 --> 00:52:10,877
I'm not allowed to make a loan.
I couldn't buy a car if I want to.
695
00:52:14,714 --> 00:52:17,926
Friends and family are paying our bills.
696
00:52:18,802 --> 00:52:21,429
So it's... it's...
697
00:52:23,056 --> 00:52:24,683
it's rough.
698
00:52:26,268 --> 00:52:30,063
Exactly how they go about the process of taking a house,
699
00:52:30,146 --> 00:52:32,816
I don't know, but they do it all the time.
700
00:52:35,443 --> 00:52:39,990
[Scott] I'm not Wells Fargo.I'm not Citibank. I'm not Deutsche Bank.
701
00:52:40,073 --> 00:52:41,783
I'm not Bank of America.
702
00:52:41,867 --> 00:52:44,494
I'm just a business guy from Kansas City.
703
00:52:44,578 --> 00:52:48,623
And I get hit with a $1.266 billion judgment.
704
00:52:50,166 --> 00:52:51,877
It's devastating.
705
00:52:52,586 --> 00:52:54,421
And that's what they wanted.
706
00:52:56,381 --> 00:53:00,635
They liquidate everything you have to try to pay the judgment.
707
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,430
How do you live?How do you support your family?
708
00:53:03,513 --> 00:53:06,850
And you don't have a bank account. You don't have any businesses.
709
00:53:06,933 --> 00:53:10,395
You don't have anything anymore.
Pretty tough situation.
710
00:53:25,619 --> 00:53:27,704
[Zabinski] Yeah, I bet no one ever in the history of America
711
00:53:27,787 --> 00:53:30,999
has ever been as aggressively prosecuted as Scott Tucker
712
00:53:31,082 --> 00:53:33,293
for something that's legal.
713
00:53:33,376 --> 00:53:35,378
And yet, still, it never stops.
714
00:53:38,465 --> 00:53:40,926
[Peterson] Eventually,the Justice Department started to notice
715
00:53:41,009 --> 00:53:44,596
that these lenders were violating not just state-interstate limitations,
716
00:53:44,679 --> 00:53:47,933
but also the federal government's
racketeering statute.
717
00:53:49,976 --> 00:53:52,687
This statute was originally adopted
718
00:53:52,771 --> 00:53:57,692
to try and deal with the Mafia,
loan sharks, and gambling rackets
719
00:53:57,776 --> 00:54:00,695
and, you know, extortion rackets.
720
00:54:04,324 --> 00:54:06,576
[Scott] We figured the FTCwas our big battle.
721
00:54:07,786 --> 00:54:12,457
But on a Wednesday morning, in February of '16,
722
00:54:13,124 --> 00:54:19,798
a full FBI SWAT team came to my house
and basically stormed in.
723
00:54:20,382 --> 00:54:23,885
There's a big knock on the door
and I can see from here.
724
00:54:23,969 --> 00:54:26,179
So I rush over there and I look down,
725
00:54:26,805 --> 00:54:28,723
and it's a man just folded arms,
726
00:54:28,807 --> 00:54:30,850
bulletproof vest, and a pistol in his hand.
727
00:54:30,934 --> 00:54:34,312
And I run back in my room because,
728
00:54:34,396 --> 00:54:37,941
"What's going on?
Please, God, no one get hurt."
729
00:54:39,651 --> 00:54:43,238
[Kim] My understanding is thatthe FBI doesn't come and get you
730
00:54:43,321 --> 00:54:45,657
unless they think you're going to flee
731
00:54:45,740 --> 00:54:48,034
or you're about to commit a crime.
732
00:54:48,118 --> 00:54:52,288
And Scott was on his exercise bike in the basement,
733
00:54:52,372 --> 00:54:55,625
where he is every day, seven days a week.
734
00:54:55,709 --> 00:54:58,294
So that was all about the show,
735
00:54:58,378 --> 00:55:02,048
and intimidation, and embarrassment
and humiliation.
736
00:55:02,132 --> 00:55:05,385
And that's part of their MO.
737
00:55:08,346 --> 00:55:12,434
[Scott] They take me out of herein handcuffs, put me in a car.
738
00:55:12,517 --> 00:55:16,563
You would have thought
that El Chapo was here.
739
00:55:19,607 --> 00:55:21,568
[Muir] Scott's wife had called me
740
00:55:21,651 --> 00:55:24,738
and said, "The FBI is here.They've arrested Scott."
741
00:55:24,821 --> 00:55:26,614
I'm trying to assess the situation.
742
00:55:26,698 --> 00:55:30,285
And while I was doing that,
bang on the door.
743
00:55:32,537 --> 00:55:34,622
Twelve to fifteen agents,
744
00:55:34,706 --> 00:55:38,668
all dressed in tactical gear, bulletproof vests on, guns drawn,
745
00:55:38,752 --> 00:55:42,005
and a tactical shotgun put in my front window
746
00:55:42,088 --> 00:55:43,173
in front of my little girls.
747
00:55:45,008 --> 00:55:47,969
Immediately, I tell my wife,
"Get the girls upstairs,"
748
00:55:48,053 --> 00:55:51,639
and walked outside and was arrested,
handcuffed and put in a car.
749
00:55:55,310 --> 00:55:59,355
If you want to arrest me, fine.I clearly can't stop you.
750
00:55:59,439 --> 00:56:03,109
But do you need to come with a SWAT team
and tactical shotguns
751
00:56:03,193 --> 00:56:04,569
at 7:00 in the morning,
752
00:56:04,652 --> 00:56:09,240
when you know I have little girls
and we're on our way to school?
753
00:56:12,911 --> 00:56:15,288
[Follis] We had eight or ninereal good years
754
00:56:15,371 --> 00:56:19,584
until the federal government steps in and stops everything.
755
00:56:19,667 --> 00:56:22,253
If you want me to name the culprit, I will.
756
00:56:22,337 --> 00:56:24,297
Southern District of New York.
757
00:56:25,507 --> 00:56:29,052
The Southern District have got a world of power.
758
00:56:29,636 --> 00:56:33,264
And they are like we are.
They're sovereign.
759
00:56:34,474 --> 00:56:37,519
They can't be touched by anybody.
760
00:56:39,562 --> 00:56:41,940
They threatened to sue us.
761
00:56:42,023 --> 00:56:45,568
They threatened to indict us.They've threatened everything.
762
00:56:46,945 --> 00:56:50,740
When you're threatened by the federal government, you go to war.
763
00:56:51,324 --> 00:56:55,703
Just like my tribe did in...
Back in the 1800s.
764
00:56:57,997 --> 00:57:01,126
If you bow down to them, they're gonna run over you.
765
00:57:03,795 --> 00:57:07,340
And I was advised by my attorneys in New York to get out.
766
00:57:07,423 --> 00:57:11,261
Do not continue business.But I didn't...
767
00:57:12,178 --> 00:57:15,056
because we hadn't done anything wrong.
768
00:57:15,140 --> 00:57:18,893
It's a legal business.
If it was illegal, I wouldn't do it.
769
00:57:18,977 --> 00:57:20,562
Hello, folks.
770
00:57:20,645 --> 00:57:25,066
The federal government knocked us out,but we're still in the loan business.
771
00:57:26,484 --> 00:57:30,321
It's a small drop in the bucket,what we got now,
772
00:57:30,405 --> 00:57:32,323
but we're building it back.
773
00:57:34,117 --> 00:57:35,994
[Muir] We are facing RICO,
774
00:57:36,953 --> 00:57:40,540
a racketeering act that Congress
passed primarily for Mafia.
775
00:57:41,166 --> 00:57:42,917
We have charges of wire fraud.
776
00:57:43,001 --> 00:57:47,797
We have charges of money launderingand we have TILA criminal charges.
777
00:57:47,881 --> 00:57:49,632
It is a criminal indictment
778
00:57:49,716 --> 00:57:54,012
and because of the financial harm
alleged in that indictment,
779
00:57:54,095 --> 00:57:57,432
that is effectively
a life sentence for us.
780
00:58:09,402 --> 00:58:11,863
[Scott] I'm sure they wanted to make an example of me.
781
00:58:11,946 --> 00:58:14,741
They wanted to destroy me financially.
782
00:58:14,824 --> 00:58:18,161
But it even gets better.All of the money that I had
783
00:58:18,244 --> 00:58:21,539
in my attorney's trust accounts for my criminal defense,
784
00:58:21,623 --> 00:58:24,876
they took that, too.And would not release it.
785
00:58:24,959 --> 00:58:30,840
And the judge in New York was forced
to give me a court-appointed attorney.
786
00:58:33,384 --> 00:58:36,888
They said, "Come in and plea to what we put on the table.
787
00:58:36,971 --> 00:58:39,057
If not,we'll add these additional charges.
788
00:58:39,140 --> 00:58:41,434
You're going to prison for the rest of your life."
789
00:58:46,731 --> 00:58:50,860
[Muir] I don't want an acquittal.I don't want one holdout.
790
00:58:50,944 --> 00:58:53,613
I need to find a way to explain to my little girls
791
00:58:53,696 --> 00:58:57,450
why those people came to our home, handcuffed me and stuffed me in a car.
792
00:58:58,326 --> 00:59:01,162
And the only way I get that
is a "Not guilty."
793
00:59:04,332 --> 00:59:08,419
You want to have a policy debate about payday lending? Let's have it.
794
00:59:08,503 --> 00:59:11,005
You want to discuss whether or not
795
00:59:11,089 --> 00:59:13,424
you think tribes exercising their sovereignty
796
00:59:13,508 --> 00:59:15,885
can engage in this or that business?
797
00:59:15,969 --> 00:59:17,345
Let's have it.
798
00:59:17,428 --> 00:59:21,766
But when you want to legislate through federal criminal prosecutions,
799
00:59:21,849 --> 00:59:23,601
fuck you.
800
00:59:23,685 --> 00:59:26,854
That I'm not gonna tolerate.
Now I'm pissed.
801
00:59:27,522 --> 00:59:30,108
And I will turn this around and shove it up their ass.
802
00:59:32,068 --> 00:59:33,987
[tires screeching]
803
00:59:34,070 --> 00:59:35,154
It's a rigged game.
804
00:59:44,122 --> 00:59:46,249
[Jia] "All of my Father.
805
00:59:46,332 --> 00:59:49,419
All of my father's problems
were solved by boxes.
806
00:59:49,502 --> 00:59:52,005
When the dog barked, he put it in a box.
807
00:59:52,088 --> 00:59:55,133
When he had something broken,
he put it in a box. And when his..."
808
00:59:55,216 --> 00:59:57,176
[clears throat] Sorry.
809
00:59:57,260 --> 00:59:59,971
"And when his brother jumped off
a six-story building,
810
01:00:00,054 --> 01:00:01,973
he ended up putting him in a box, too.
811
01:00:02,056 --> 01:00:03,891
That broke my heart.
812
01:00:03,975 --> 01:00:06,644
All of my father disappeared
when he was arrested.
813
01:00:06,728 --> 01:00:09,272
All of my father is in a box
and he never comes out.
814
01:00:09,355 --> 01:00:11,107
God, why won't he come out?
815
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:12,358
I've not seen his face in a year,
816
01:00:12,442 --> 01:00:14,736
and yet the circles
under his sleepless eyes
817
01:00:14,819 --> 01:00:18,364
and his bone bare body I can see.
818
01:00:18,448 --> 01:00:19,574
He's a good man.
819
01:00:19,657 --> 01:00:23,453
I swear, he's a good man.
He's a good man."
820
01:00:26,205 --> 01:00:32,795
He was a great businessman,but reputation is everything.
821
01:00:32,879 --> 01:00:35,673
And so that's gone. His business is gone.
822
01:00:35,757 --> 01:00:40,803
He'll be seen as a loser
in the eyes of everyone else.
823
01:00:40,887 --> 01:00:43,640
I mean, of course he'll still be my father
824
01:00:43,723 --> 01:00:48,269
and I'll still love him and be proud
of him, no matter what happens.
825
01:00:48,353 --> 01:00:49,812
'Cause he fought and I know he fought.
826
01:00:50,563 --> 01:00:54,108
But they're not gonna be the same parents.
827
01:00:54,192 --> 01:00:55,860
[Scott] I know when you're hungry,
you're hungry.
828
01:00:55,943 --> 01:00:56,778
Yeah.
829
01:00:56,861 --> 01:00:59,155
When you said you want
some meat to eat, I said...
830
01:00:59,238 --> 01:01:02,867
[Jia] There'll be friends who have read those one-sided stories
831
01:01:02,950 --> 01:01:07,330
and they'll say, "Oh, don't worry. I know you're not like your father."
832
01:01:07,413 --> 01:01:10,416
I'll say, "Yeah, I'm like my father."I'm gonna defend that.
833
01:01:10,500 --> 01:01:13,419
Of course, there'll be some doubt
in your mind,
834
01:01:13,503 --> 01:01:18,716
but I don't think it's ever been
strong enough for me to believe it.
835
01:01:19,759 --> 01:01:20,843
Uh...
836
01:01:21,427 --> 01:01:25,723
I'm pretty confident
in my father's innocence.
837
01:01:25,807 --> 01:01:27,308
My testimony meant something.
838
01:01:28,851 --> 01:01:30,561
He's an innocent man.
839
01:01:39,946 --> 01:01:41,781
[Archer] If I was in a roomwith Scott Tucker,
840
01:01:41,864 --> 01:01:47,662
I would tell him that there are millions that you probably put in a position
841
01:01:47,745 --> 01:01:51,082
where, at least temporarily, they were homeless.
842
01:01:52,875 --> 01:01:56,129
Or they did without electricity.
843
01:01:57,213 --> 01:02:01,676
Or their water, sewageor garbage was turned off.
844
01:02:01,759 --> 01:02:05,555
Maybe they did without food
for a while so the kids could eat.
845
01:02:08,766 --> 01:02:13,855
Your greed put them in a very bad position.
846
01:02:13,938 --> 01:02:15,189
[inaudible]
847
01:02:17,483 --> 01:02:21,362
And you need to stand up and take accountability
848
01:02:21,446 --> 01:02:25,408
for what you have done
and publicly apologize.
849
01:02:27,076 --> 01:02:30,955
[Jesse Moss] So this is the FTC's
smoking gun. The money bag document.
850
01:02:32,165 --> 01:02:37,420
I don't even know what to say. This...
I wasn't involved in any of these things.
851
01:02:38,337 --> 01:02:41,215
Uh, somebody put a money bag on here.
852
01:02:41,299 --> 01:02:45,636
I mean, I don't even know
how to comment to it.
853
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:51,058
I mean, you know, it was a training...
training document.
854
01:02:51,142 --> 01:02:52,393
And, uh...
855
01:02:54,145 --> 01:02:57,523
I mean...
That's what I guess the trainer does.
856
01:03:16,542 --> 01:03:18,252
[man] Get ready to stop. Easy, easy...
857
01:03:18,336 --> 01:03:21,631
[Chessin] When it comes toprotecting consumers,
858
01:03:21,714 --> 01:03:28,221
in certain aspects, the free market model
starts to break down.
859
01:03:30,181 --> 01:03:34,477
And when you have people who are so financially desperate
860
01:03:35,353 --> 01:03:41,400
that they will suffer almost anything
861
01:03:41,484 --> 01:03:44,070
to be able to put food on their table,
862
01:03:44,862 --> 01:03:49,450
that is where
those who are less scrupulous
863
01:03:49,534 --> 01:03:52,119
can come in and take advantage.
864
01:03:55,373 --> 01:03:58,334
[Heath] It was conceived to break the law.
865
01:04:00,253 --> 01:04:02,713
It was a $2 billion business, and they...
866
01:04:02,797 --> 01:04:05,675
It was set up to get around state lending laws.
867
01:04:08,219 --> 01:04:10,680
It's clear to me that he's a con man.
868
01:04:13,307 --> 01:04:16,394
I don't know how a person lives with that.
869
01:04:17,436 --> 01:04:22,441
That they make money by essentially taking money from poor people.
870
01:04:23,401 --> 01:04:25,736
And living the high life.
871
01:04:26,904 --> 01:04:29,282
[Moss] Your critics throw around
this term, predatory lending.
872
01:04:29,365 --> 01:04:30,992
-Okay.
-[Moss] Are you a predator?
873
01:04:31,075 --> 01:04:32,368
Am I a predator?
874
01:04:33,828 --> 01:04:34,662
No.
875
01:04:36,497 --> 01:04:41,419
I mean, it's just a business.
There was a demand,
876
01:04:41,502 --> 01:04:47,174
consumer, and you know,
the business was built around that.
877
01:04:47,258 --> 01:04:49,552
Do you think you're a moral person?
878
01:04:52,430 --> 01:04:54,181
I'm a businessperson.
879
01:04:57,435 --> 01:05:02,773
If Scott Tucker were to be found guilty
in a criminal court and sent to prison,
880
01:05:02,857 --> 01:05:05,818
I don't think there's a prison term
long enough
881
01:05:05,902 --> 01:05:08,237
that would be suitable, in my opinion.
882
01:05:14,410 --> 01:05:17,872
[Peterson] Is it gonna be the Wild Westwhere people can be deceived,
883
01:05:17,955 --> 01:05:19,373
and products don't work for folks?
884
01:05:26,380 --> 01:05:30,843
Or should we have somebody that's watching out for consumers
885
01:05:30,927 --> 01:05:33,554
and have products that work for themand help them,
886
01:05:33,638 --> 01:05:36,974
as opposed to traps and tricks
887
01:05:37,058 --> 01:05:41,604
that lead people into disappointment
and despair?
888
01:05:45,441 --> 01:05:47,568
We have a choice as a society.
889
01:06:10,841 --> 01:06:12,843
[music playing]
82984
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