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1
00:00:10,140 --> 00:00:13,578
We got into talking about
these bus-kicking turtles.
2
00:00:13,622 --> 00:00:15,948
You know, the bus would be
going along Route 108, I think it was,
3
00:00:15,972 --> 00:00:18,061
between Durham
and Dover.
4
00:00:18,105 --> 00:00:20,170
Suddenly this turtle would
jump out from the side of the road,
5
00:00:20,194 --> 00:00:21,630
kick the bus
really hard
6
00:00:21,673 --> 00:00:23,806
and spin it
around on its axis,
7
00:00:23,849 --> 00:00:26,504
and you'd be heading
back the other way.
8
00:00:26,548 --> 00:00:29,768
We just got a real kick out of
talking about these bus-kicking turtles.
9
00:00:29,812 --> 00:00:32,641
We would laugh
uproariously.
10
00:00:32,684 --> 00:00:35,383
And I think that is where
the Turtles came from.
11
00:00:40,170 --> 00:00:43,739
We had no idea how big
big could be.
12
00:00:43,782 --> 00:00:47,047
I felt obligated to resist
making it a total commercial.
13
00:00:47,090 --> 00:00:48,961
Every morning,
7:00 on the dot,
14
00:00:49,005 --> 00:00:51,007
I watched every
single episode.
15
00:00:51,051 --> 00:00:52,878
They're kind of like
the cartoon Beatles.
16
00:00:52,922 --> 00:00:56,317
It's a story that really tells you
that anybody can be successful.
17
00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,406
Should it have happened?
18
00:00:58,449 --> 00:01:02,018
The odds are
infinitesimally low, but it did.
19
00:02:25,014 --> 00:02:28,844
Nothing about it was planned
beyond how do we do a 40-page comic
20
00:02:28,887 --> 00:02:30,628
and make it at least
halfway decent?
21
00:02:32,848 --> 00:02:36,417
There's too many
happy accidents.
22
00:02:41,030 --> 00:02:45,513
In 1977, you have
this really vital energy
23
00:02:45,556 --> 00:02:46,949
happening
in popular culture.
24
00:02:46,992 --> 00:02:48,274
If you want,
you can call it punk,
25
00:02:48,298 --> 00:02:49,734
you can call it
new wave.
26
00:02:49,778 --> 00:02:53,390
A lot of stuff was happening.
27
00:02:53,434 --> 00:02:56,263
I mean, we were almost at
the very end of the Cold War,
28
00:02:56,306 --> 00:02:58,961
there's a lot of
multiculturalism coming out,
29
00:03:01,224 --> 00:03:04,271
and a lot of kids who felt out of place.
30
00:03:04,314 --> 00:03:06,621
They didn't know how to
describe themselves
31
00:03:06,664 --> 00:03:08,927
and they didn't have
the kind of community
32
00:03:08,971 --> 00:03:11,800
that previous
generations have had.
33
00:03:11,843 --> 00:03:14,281
Stores like
the Silver Snail,
34
00:03:14,324 --> 00:03:17,284
a lot of comic book stores in
Berkeley and throughout North America
35
00:03:17,327 --> 00:03:19,721
really picked up
on that energy.
36
00:03:21,462 --> 00:03:23,594
Two years before I met Kevin,
37
00:03:23,638 --> 00:03:26,945
I had started this free comic
book newspaper sort of thing.
38
00:03:26,989 --> 00:03:29,600
It was actually more
like a booklet, calledScat.
39
00:03:29,644 --> 00:03:31,950
I got together with a
bunch of local cartoonists
40
00:03:31,994 --> 00:03:34,083
and we decided
to do this thing.
41
00:03:34,126 --> 00:03:36,216
It felt like Mad Magazine
in the '60s.
42
00:03:36,259 --> 00:03:38,696
It had this really
interesting satirical,
43
00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:41,743
black and white,
kind of edgy feel.
44
00:03:41,786 --> 00:03:45,442
I used to love comic books as
a kid, and loved reading them.
45
00:03:45,486 --> 00:03:47,986
Sometime around my first or second
year of high school, I think it was,
46
00:03:48,010 --> 00:03:50,099
I became aware of Jack Kirby.
47
00:03:57,498 --> 00:04:00,240
One day, riding the bus to the
job I had at the local pizza parlor,
48
00:04:00,283 --> 00:04:02,459
I found this
magazine calledScat
49
00:04:02,503 --> 00:04:04,503
put out by a bunch of
these artists in Northampton.
50
00:04:05,723 --> 00:04:07,397
With the address in hand,
I grabbed my portfolio
51
00:04:07,421 --> 00:04:08,900
and went over
to their offices
52
00:04:08,944 --> 00:04:10,337
to sell some of
my short stories,
53
00:04:10,380 --> 00:04:11,773
some of my ideas,
54
00:04:11,816 --> 00:04:13,253
because it was
kind of like-minded,
55
00:04:13,296 --> 00:04:14,689
underground artist
inspired.
56
00:04:14,732 --> 00:04:17,257
One of the guys at Scat gave him my address
57
00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:18,886
and he wrote me a letter,
a very nice letter,
58
00:04:18,910 --> 00:04:21,173
and I wrote him back
59
00:04:21,217 --> 00:04:24,264
and said, "Yeah, come on over
and we'll get together and talk
60
00:04:24,307 --> 00:04:26,178
"and show each other
our artwork and whatnot."
61
00:04:28,180 --> 00:04:30,052
I walked into
his house in Northampton,
62
00:04:30,095 --> 00:04:32,030
and the first thing I saw
was a Jack Kirby drawing.
63
00:04:32,054 --> 00:04:36,406
I had a framed
Jack Kirby pencil page
64
00:04:36,450 --> 00:04:38,800
fromThe Losers,
the DC comic,
65
00:04:38,843 --> 00:04:41,019
hanging on the wall
and he just flipped out.
66
00:04:41,063 --> 00:04:43,848
Oh, my God! I had never seen
an actual Jack Kirby original,
67
00:04:43,892 --> 00:04:45,435
having been such
a big inspiration to me.
68
00:04:45,459 --> 00:04:47,243
And that was
pretty much it.
69
00:04:47,287 --> 00:04:48,487
We hit it off
from the word go.
70
00:04:51,726 --> 00:04:54,381
We sat in the pizza
parlor in Wells, Maine
71
00:04:54,424 --> 00:04:56,426
trying to think up good
names for our business.
72
00:04:58,123 --> 00:05:00,691
I remember we wrote on the
back of a napkin or a placemat
73
00:05:00,735 --> 00:05:02,737
a list of about a dozen names,
74
00:05:02,780 --> 00:05:05,000
and Mirage seemed
75
00:05:05,043 --> 00:05:07,437
the coolest sounding and
also the most appropriate
76
00:05:07,481 --> 00:05:09,961
because it wasn't
really a studio,
77
00:05:10,005 --> 00:05:12,050
it was the two of us
sitting in our tiny living room
78
00:05:12,094 --> 00:05:15,576
with our lap boards and
our old stuffed chairs
79
00:05:15,619 --> 00:05:18,187
watching TV, goofing
around and drawing together.
80
00:05:18,230 --> 00:05:19,231
Genius at work.
81
00:05:30,199 --> 00:05:32,070
Late one night
in the studio,
82
00:05:32,114 --> 00:05:34,769
I liked to bug Pete
as much as I could,
83
00:05:34,812 --> 00:05:37,162
especially when he's
watching his favorite TV shows.
84
00:05:37,206 --> 00:05:39,817
One night, we're sitting
around watching bad TV
85
00:05:41,776 --> 00:05:42,896
and that's when it happened.
86
00:05:53,788 --> 00:05:56,399
Kevin drew a turtle
standing on its hind legs
87
00:05:56,443 --> 00:05:58,488
with nunchaku strapped
to its forearms
88
00:05:58,532 --> 00:06:00,577
and with
a bandana-style mask.
89
00:06:00,621 --> 00:06:01,728
And he showed it to me and he says,
90
00:06:01,752 --> 00:06:02,903
"Hey, this is a ninja turtle."
91
00:06:02,927 --> 00:06:04,625
And I was like, "Yeah, great."
92
00:06:04,668 --> 00:06:06,670
So I had to do
my own version
93
00:06:06,714 --> 00:06:08,074
and I changed just
a couple things.
94
00:06:09,325 --> 00:06:10,631
And of course
I had to top him,
95
00:06:10,674 --> 00:06:13,503
so I did a sketch
of four in pencil,
96
00:06:13,547 --> 00:06:16,898
and each one had different
weapons and this dramatic pose,
97
00:06:16,941 --> 00:06:19,770
and I had to put the comic
title above, "Ninja Turtle."
98
00:06:19,814 --> 00:06:21,729
He handed that
to me and I inked that.
99
00:06:21,772 --> 00:06:23,861
Sometime around
that point I suggested,
100
00:06:23,905 --> 00:06:26,081
"Why not add 'Teenage Mutant' to the name?"
101
00:06:26,124 --> 00:06:27,324
It had a kind of rhythm to it.
102
00:06:32,435 --> 00:06:34,089
"Dude, we have to
come up with a story
103
00:06:34,132 --> 00:06:35,414
"that tells how these
characters became
104
00:06:35,438 --> 00:06:36,798
"the Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles."
105
00:07:07,427 --> 00:07:10,604
We were both huge fans of the
underground publishing movement.
106
00:07:10,647 --> 00:07:13,128
You go back toZap Comix,
Robert Crumb, Kitchen Sink,
107
00:07:13,171 --> 00:07:15,739
Rip Off Press, Fabulous
Furry Freak Brothers.
108
00:07:15,783 --> 00:07:17,761
A lot of that stuff we had both
seen and enjoyed in the head shops
109
00:07:17,785 --> 00:07:19,265
and that kind of
stuff you could find.
110
00:07:20,701 --> 00:07:22,877
We realized pretty
early on in our friendship
111
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,228
that we each had strengths
that complement the other.
112
00:07:26,271 --> 00:07:29,884
I brought the layout and
the dynamic Jack Kirby-isms
113
00:07:29,927 --> 00:07:32,495
that paced out
the story this way.
114
00:07:32,539 --> 00:07:34,976
He brought a lot of great
subtle nuances to the story,
115
00:07:35,019 --> 00:07:37,674
certainly in the script, I
think more than anything else.
116
00:07:37,718 --> 00:07:41,286
And his artwork style was much
more refined, much more detailed.
117
00:07:44,681 --> 00:07:47,510
Kevin was
really good at color,
118
00:07:47,554 --> 00:07:49,053
and he had a really powerful color sense
119
00:07:49,077 --> 00:07:51,775
and I was terrible at it.
120
00:07:51,819 --> 00:07:52,926
Peter didn't do much painting.
121
00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:54,561
He did mostly
122
00:07:54,604 --> 00:07:56,127
the most amazing
line work
123
00:07:56,171 --> 00:07:58,042
and detail work
you could imagine.
124
00:07:58,086 --> 00:08:00,523
So, I did up
a couple of roughs
125
00:08:00,567 --> 00:08:02,407
and this is probably
the one I finally selected
126
00:08:02,917 --> 00:08:06,050
before we did this piece here.
127
00:08:06,094 --> 00:08:10,054
This was the first color
painting of the Turtlesdone
128
00:08:10,098 --> 00:08:11,752
back in 1984.
129
00:08:14,755 --> 00:08:18,672
We decided early on that we'd
have some of us on each page,
130
00:08:18,715 --> 00:08:20,761
whether we're penciling
or inking or whatever,
131
00:08:20,804 --> 00:08:23,415
there was a bit of
each of us on each page,
132
00:08:23,459 --> 00:08:26,375
and it got to be where we
couldn't see where I left off
133
00:08:26,418 --> 00:08:28,333
and where he started
and vice versa.
134
00:08:29,465 --> 00:08:31,989
It took us about two and a half months
135
00:08:32,033 --> 00:08:35,210
to actually complete the entire thing.
136
00:08:35,253 --> 00:08:37,647
Borrowed some money
from Kevin's uncle
137
00:08:37,691 --> 00:08:39,562
and took whatever money
we had ourselves,
138
00:08:39,606 --> 00:08:41,346
which wasn't
a whole lot,
139
00:08:41,390 --> 00:08:44,524
and managed to scrape that all
together and print 3,000 copies.
140
00:08:48,179 --> 00:08:51,139
1984,
this comic comes out
141
00:08:51,182 --> 00:08:53,750
created by these two guys
142
00:08:53,794 --> 00:08:55,839
who love all the same stuff
143
00:08:55,883 --> 00:08:59,364
but have very different perspectives.
144
00:08:59,408 --> 00:09:04,021
One of them is more outgoing,
145
00:09:04,065 --> 00:09:06,589
interested in
the violent side,
146
00:09:06,633 --> 00:09:09,113
the more emotional
side of things.
147
00:09:09,157 --> 00:09:12,856
The other one is a lot
more introverted, calmer,
148
00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:17,992
more intellectual in terms of
storytelling, in terms of art style,
149
00:09:18,035 --> 00:09:21,430
but they're both fans of
the same kinds of comics.
150
00:09:21,473 --> 00:09:23,843
One of the strange things
about that first issue of the Turtles
151
00:09:23,867 --> 00:09:28,132
is it sent a very strong
and different message.
152
00:09:28,176 --> 00:09:31,353
It didn't feel like
a mainstream comic,
153
00:09:31,396 --> 00:09:32,963
there was
something about it.
154
00:09:33,007 --> 00:09:36,097
And the fact that it was
a slightly wrong size
155
00:09:36,140 --> 00:09:39,622
also gave a slight
sense of edginess.
156
00:09:39,666 --> 00:09:44,192
It didn't feel like it was
coming from a factory.
157
00:09:44,235 --> 00:09:47,412
What that first issue
does is comment on
158
00:09:47,456 --> 00:09:48,979
everything that's going on
159
00:09:49,023 --> 00:09:52,156
in superhero comics at the time.
160
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,134
What's interesting, when
the first issue came out,
161
00:09:54,158 --> 00:09:56,552
it was dubbed as a parody
and it was, in a big way.
162
00:09:56,596 --> 00:09:59,729
It was like Dave Sim when
he started with Cerebus.
163
00:09:59,773 --> 00:10:02,210
He drew this funny little
barbarian aardvark
164
00:10:02,253 --> 00:10:04,604
that was this barbarian
drawn in the style
165
00:10:04,647 --> 00:10:06,736
of Barry Windsor-Smith
when he didConan.
166
00:10:06,780 --> 00:10:09,434
What worked withCerebus,
and we tried to capture, too,
167
00:10:09,478 --> 00:10:11,654
is thatCerebus just had a
lot of depth and character.
168
00:10:11,698 --> 00:10:14,004
Dave progressed the story
along and made it interesting,
169
00:10:14,048 --> 00:10:15,852
and that's why he kept so
many readers for 300 issues.
170
00:10:15,876 --> 00:10:18,400
And with us,
we really aped a lot of.
171
00:10:18,443 --> 00:10:20,532
Frank Miller-isms
and Daredevil-isms.
172
00:10:20,576 --> 00:10:22,491
I mean,
you look at the origin.
173
00:10:22,534 --> 00:10:24,754
The Hand inDaredevil,
we have the Foot.
174
00:10:24,798 --> 00:10:27,409
Splinter is based on Stick.
175
00:10:27,452 --> 00:10:29,193
We really pulled
some of our favorite bits
176
00:10:29,237 --> 00:10:31,282
from some of our
favorite comics
177
00:10:31,326 --> 00:10:34,634
in, what do you call it,
homage or whatever.
178
00:10:37,549 --> 00:10:40,378
So, yes, they were making
fun of the ninja trend,
179
00:10:40,422 --> 00:10:43,904
they were making fun of the
overblown Frank Miller dialogue.
180
00:10:43,947 --> 00:10:47,559
They were making fun of the
dynamic poses of Jack Kirby.
181
00:10:47,603 --> 00:10:51,563
But it was all with great love,
great heart, great affection,
182
00:10:51,607 --> 00:10:54,131
and that's one of the
reasons why the comic worked.
183
00:10:54,175 --> 00:10:56,481
It was real,
it was passionate
184
00:10:56,525 --> 00:10:58,005
and that, you know,
come on.
185
00:10:58,048 --> 00:10:59,484
That just shoots
out of the pages.
186
00:11:02,009 --> 00:11:04,141
I am often asked,
187
00:11:04,185 --> 00:11:06,424
"Why did you kill your main
villain off in the first issue?
188
00:11:06,448 --> 00:11:08,842
"That doesn't make a whole lot of sense."
189
00:11:08,885 --> 00:11:11,805
And the reason is that we never really
thought we'd be doing a second one.
190
00:11:14,891 --> 00:11:17,372
This was done
completely for fun
191
00:11:17,415 --> 00:11:19,896
and for the passion of
wanting to do comics.
192
00:11:19,940 --> 00:11:23,204
And nothing about it
was planned beyond
193
00:11:23,247 --> 00:11:25,162
how do we do a 40-page comic
194
00:11:25,206 --> 00:11:27,208
and make it at least halfway decent?
195
00:11:27,251 --> 00:11:28,992
After the first
3,000 were gone,
196
00:11:29,036 --> 00:11:30,211
there were
more orders
197
00:11:30,254 --> 00:11:31,254
and so we
printed more.
198
00:11:32,387 --> 00:11:34,737
Then we sort of
figured out, well...
199
00:11:34,781 --> 00:11:36,759
Again, because we don't have a
lot of other distracting paying work,
200
00:11:36,783 --> 00:11:38,915
it's like,
"Let's do an issue two.
201
00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:41,875
"Let's continue to tell stories
of these characters we created
202
00:11:41,918 --> 00:11:43,746
"and try to make
a living at something
203
00:11:43,790 --> 00:11:45,530
"we've both dreamed
about our entire life
204
00:11:45,574 --> 00:11:48,185
"which is to write, draw and
tell our own comic stories."
205
00:11:52,407 --> 00:11:53,756
The second issue
came out,
206
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,803
it felt like it was
aimed at people like me.
207
00:11:56,846 --> 00:11:59,719
However, in ordering
the comic
208
00:11:59,762 --> 00:12:01,895
and putting the comic
on the stands,
209
00:12:01,938 --> 00:12:05,420
you began noticing that
all kinds of people
210
00:12:05,463 --> 00:12:08,118
you wouldn't quite expect to pick
up the comic were picking it up.
211
00:12:08,162 --> 00:12:09,487
By the time we started
work on issue two,
212
00:12:09,511 --> 00:12:10,730
I was living in
Portland, Maine
213
00:12:10,773 --> 00:12:13,080
and Pete was living
in Sharon, Connecticut,
214
00:12:13,123 --> 00:12:16,431
and we'd done the pre-orders
through the distribution system
215
00:12:16,474 --> 00:12:18,912
for how many copies that
they'd want to buy for issue two,
216
00:12:18,955 --> 00:12:21,392
and the orders
came in at 15,000.
217
00:12:21,436 --> 00:12:24,961
And very quickly, by the third
or fourth issue of theTurtles,
218
00:12:25,005 --> 00:12:27,877
it was selling more than
The Avengersin the store.
219
00:12:27,921 --> 00:12:30,445
So, there was
something going on.
220
00:12:30,488 --> 00:12:33,361
In many ways, theTeenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles
221
00:12:33,404 --> 00:12:36,494
started what became then known
as the black-and-white boom.
222
00:12:36,538 --> 00:12:40,542
And by '85, '86, it was mind-boggling
how many we were selling.
223
00:12:42,979 --> 00:12:46,069
Doing the numbers on the second
issue, the first printing of that,
224
00:12:46,113 --> 00:12:48,985
back in, I think
it was, late '84
225
00:12:49,029 --> 00:12:53,685
and realizing that Kevin and I
would each make $2,000 profit.
226
00:12:53,729 --> 00:12:55,339
Pete faxed me this note
227
00:12:55,383 --> 00:12:58,734
and at 15,000 copies, total cost involved,
228
00:12:58,778 --> 00:13:01,781
we'd end up with
roughly $4,000 profit.
229
00:13:01,824 --> 00:13:04,958
And it was a great feeling to
get to that point in life when
230
00:13:08,222 --> 00:13:10,964
what you really
want to do
231
00:13:11,007 --> 00:13:13,401
turns out to be
what you need to do.
232
00:13:13,444 --> 00:13:16,186
"2,000 for you, 2,000 for me,
we do this every two months,
233
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:17,971
"we could make a living
drawing comics."
234
00:13:18,014 --> 00:13:19,929
I literally packed up my bags
235
00:13:19,973 --> 00:13:21,907
and moved out of Portland
and moved down to Connecticut.
236
00:13:21,931 --> 00:13:24,629
We then went ahead
and finished issue two.
237
00:13:47,914 --> 00:13:50,612
You know what was cool, when
we did the first issue of the Turtles
238
00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:53,136
and we kind of knew
who the characters were,
239
00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:55,660
we knew
their personalities.
240
00:13:55,704 --> 00:14:00,187
Raphael was
loosely based on me
241
00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:02,667
and Donatello was
loosely based on Pete.
242
00:14:02,711 --> 00:14:05,714
But it was 40 pages,
243
00:14:05,757 --> 00:14:07,910
you really didn't get to know
the characters well enough.
244
00:14:07,934 --> 00:14:10,240
They were sort of
introduced.
245
00:14:10,284 --> 00:14:13,243
When we started working on
the second, third and fourth issue,
246
00:14:13,287 --> 00:14:16,116
the cool part was that we really
had to develop these characters.
247
00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:18,181
We had to know them better than
anybody, so we could write them.
248
00:14:18,205 --> 00:14:21,382
So, like any writer,
249
00:14:21,425 --> 00:14:24,776
you kind of pull from all
these influences around you.
250
00:14:24,820 --> 00:14:28,693
Your crazy Uncle Burt,
your sisters, an ex-girlfriend.
251
00:14:28,737 --> 00:14:31,218
For example, April
was designed and written
252
00:14:31,261 --> 00:14:34,090
after a girl that I had
dated in high school,
253
00:14:34,134 --> 00:14:37,659
then we got
married later and stuff.
254
00:14:37,702 --> 00:14:41,010
She was a big inspiration for
that character, at least in name,
255
00:14:41,054 --> 00:14:42,074
she didn't look
exactly like her.
256
00:14:42,098 --> 00:14:44,100
She did in later issues.
257
00:14:44,144 --> 00:14:46,886
Raphael, who was kind of
the crazy, the hothead.
258
00:14:46,929 --> 00:14:48,757
The rest of the group
think he's crazy.
259
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,499
To have Raphael meet
somebody crazier...
260
00:14:51,542 --> 00:14:54,850
So I started coming up with some ideas
261
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:58,985
for a vigilante character
that was not like...
262
00:14:59,028 --> 00:15:01,050
Most vigilante characters were
their whole family was killed,
263
00:15:01,074 --> 00:15:03,772
there was some huge,
tragic event in their life
264
00:15:03,815 --> 00:15:05,905
that got them to either
put on a suit or whatever
265
00:15:05,948 --> 00:15:08,211
and strike out
on their own
266
00:15:08,255 --> 00:15:10,518
to take justice
on the bad guys.
267
00:15:10,561 --> 00:15:12,041
So, I came up
with this guy.
268
00:15:12,085 --> 00:15:14,522
I like this name,
Casey Jones.
269
00:15:14,565 --> 00:15:16,002
He didn't have
this huge tragedy
270
00:15:16,045 --> 00:15:17,873
that affected his will
to fight bad guys,
271
00:15:17,917 --> 00:15:19,701
it was because he watched
too much bad TV.
272
00:15:19,744 --> 00:15:21,703
Pete said, "You know
what would be really funny
273
00:15:21,746 --> 00:15:23,400
"is if he had
a golf bag,
274
00:15:23,444 --> 00:15:25,402
"and in the golf bag
he not only had bats,
275
00:15:25,446 --> 00:15:26,969
"he had a golf club,
a hockey stick."
276
00:15:27,013 --> 00:15:29,711
So, he was like
an all-sports nut
277
00:15:29,754 --> 00:15:32,366
and that really made
the whole character perfect.
278
00:15:32,409 --> 00:15:34,107
One of my favorite movies around this time
279
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:35,911
was a movie called Big
Trouble in Little China,
280
00:15:35,935 --> 00:15:37,893
and I thought Kurt Russell
as Jack Burton,
281
00:15:37,937 --> 00:15:39,373
that's Casey.
282
00:15:39,416 --> 00:15:40,776
That was really
a huge inspiration.
283
00:15:47,163 --> 00:15:50,297
It was only those first few
issues that Kevin and Peter
284
00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:52,038
wrote and drew together, the two of them.
285
00:15:53,169 --> 00:15:55,389
As Ninja Turtles, the comic book,
286
00:15:55,432 --> 00:15:56,781
started getting more popular,
287
00:15:56,825 --> 00:15:59,915
they started building a studio.
288
00:16:07,009 --> 00:16:10,099
We actually needed
to be a real business,
289
00:16:10,143 --> 00:16:12,406
so we, in fact,
rented an office space.
290
00:16:12,449 --> 00:16:14,732
The comic was doing well
enough that we could afford that.
291
00:16:14,756 --> 00:16:16,081
Funny story,
Michelangelo was actually,
292
00:16:16,105 --> 00:16:17,846
a lot of him, was based
on Steve Lavigne,
293
00:16:17,889 --> 00:16:19,587
who still works
with the studio.
294
00:16:19,630 --> 00:16:21,415
I went to high school
with Steve, and he was
295
00:16:21,458 --> 00:16:23,939
the Robin Williams
of our high school.
296
00:16:23,983 --> 00:16:26,115
He always had the wrong
joke at the right time.
297
00:16:26,159 --> 00:16:28,596
Pretty soon
after school,
298
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:30,685
he got the first book out
and came back to...
299
00:16:30,728 --> 00:16:33,340
He was living out in
Western Mass here with Pete
300
00:16:33,383 --> 00:16:34,732
and came back
and asked if I was
301
00:16:34,776 --> 00:16:36,604
interested in
maybe coming on board
302
00:16:36,647 --> 00:16:38,016
and doing the lettering,
because he really hated
303
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,216
the lettering
aspect of the book.
304
00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:42,325
I was like, "Eh, I'll give it a
shot," and he taught me to letter
305
00:16:42,349 --> 00:16:44,655
and pretty soon
took that over
306
00:16:44,699 --> 00:16:46,788
and just kind of
moved my way through.
307
00:16:48,007 --> 00:16:49,921
Totally...
308
00:16:53,795 --> 00:16:55,492
Who is that boy?
309
00:16:57,016 --> 00:16:58,080
It was so weird,
I went in there
310
00:16:58,104 --> 00:16:59,366
and there were
these three guys
311
00:16:59,409 --> 00:17:01,542
kind of just
acting wacky
312
00:17:03,674 --> 00:17:06,373
and having great success at this
comic book they were publishing.
313
00:17:06,416 --> 00:17:09,071
So, I showed them my stuff,
314
00:17:09,115 --> 00:17:11,595
and I think maybe right
on the spot at that time,
315
00:17:11,639 --> 00:17:13,336
they offered me
an inking job.
316
00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:14,468
You drew that on there?
317
00:17:16,731 --> 00:17:18,776
Ryan became a real
important part of the studio,
318
00:17:18,820 --> 00:17:20,996
he was inking
Tales of the Turtles,
319
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,608
the first volume of that.
320
00:17:24,652 --> 00:17:28,264
He got heavily into
the licensing art world
321
00:17:28,308 --> 00:17:30,049
along with Steve Lavigne.
322
00:17:31,267 --> 00:17:33,139
It was one of those
fortuitous things,
323
00:17:33,182 --> 00:17:35,532
Ryan just came up to us at a
show and introduced himself.
324
00:17:35,576 --> 00:17:37,360
The early days of Mirage,
325
00:17:37,404 --> 00:17:39,710
we really had full rein
on the Turtles.
326
00:17:39,754 --> 00:17:42,148
We could think of ideas and
take it to Pete and Kevin.
327
00:17:42,191 --> 00:17:46,369
We all worked together on it
and it was really
328
00:17:46,413 --> 00:17:48,893
the best time of
my life creatively.
329
00:17:48,937 --> 00:17:50,897
This is my first lesson
in using high technology.
330
00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:54,116
And what do you
think of it, Mike?
331
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,511
I think that I'm basically a cave dweller.
332
00:17:57,554 --> 00:18:00,122
We all clicked immediately,
it was amazing.
333
00:18:00,166 --> 00:18:02,429
Every one of us,
334
00:18:02,472 --> 00:18:05,867
we were just absorbed
into the clique right away.
335
00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:08,826
It was just insane.
It was a circus every day.
336
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:12,091
Work a little bit,
play airsoft rifles,
337
00:18:12,134 --> 00:18:14,528
shoot each other,
play basketball.
338
00:18:14,571 --> 00:18:18,488
Then we'd go to lunch at
noon, come back at 2:00.
339
00:18:18,532 --> 00:18:20,447
We'd usually go shop
in the model shops.
340
00:18:23,145 --> 00:18:24,886
One of the guys
used to refer to it as,
341
00:18:24,929 --> 00:18:26,888
"We have to take
an occasional work break."
342
00:18:26,931 --> 00:18:31,240
Meaning that in between
whatever we used to do,
343
00:18:31,284 --> 00:18:34,504
throw things at each other,
airsoft gun battles in the studio,
344
00:18:35,418 --> 00:18:37,290
we'd have to remember that,
345
00:18:37,333 --> 00:18:41,120
"Oh, yeah, we have to get
that T-shirt design done."
346
00:18:41,163 --> 00:18:43,948
Or whatever it is that people
were working on at the time.
347
00:18:43,992 --> 00:18:46,560
When you think about the
guys that have assembled here
348
00:18:46,603 --> 00:18:48,518
for this purpose of
drawing the Turtles,
349
00:18:49,476 --> 00:18:52,131
it's amazing to me.
350
00:18:52,174 --> 00:18:56,439
They're Dooney and Berger,
Steve and me, Eric.
351
00:18:57,223 --> 00:18:58,876
Ryan.
352
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,184
Yeah, we've been
like a family, really.
353
00:19:02,228 --> 00:19:05,231
We've worked together, we've
played together, it's stunning to me.
354
00:19:05,274 --> 00:19:06,754
It really, I think,
is a rare
355
00:19:06,797 --> 00:19:08,557
and kind of cool thing
that Mirage did there.
356
00:19:15,023 --> 00:19:17,243
The Turtles have always
been very malleable.
357
00:19:18,766 --> 00:19:21,595
Different artists have
different takes on them,
358
00:19:21,638 --> 00:19:23,249
some more cartoony
than others,
359
00:19:24,772 --> 00:19:26,513
some more realistic
than others.
360
00:19:28,776 --> 00:19:32,301
Mike Dooney, he's
a great all-around artist,
361
00:19:32,345 --> 00:19:33,345
especially his paintings.
362
00:19:36,784 --> 00:19:40,266
And Jim's dynamic
with his layouts
363
00:19:40,309 --> 00:19:42,137
and his poses that
his characters strike.
364
00:19:46,968 --> 00:19:51,102
Eric's a fan favorite, everyone loves
his stuff, because his is real gritty,
365
00:19:51,146 --> 00:19:54,193
kind of, in a way of,
like, Kevin gritty.
366
00:19:54,236 --> 00:19:56,151
And I've always really
admired Pete's work,
367
00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:57,761
because I think
it's so polished.
368
00:19:57,805 --> 00:19:59,850
Kevin and I were incredibly happy
369
00:19:59,894 --> 00:20:01,263
with what was going on with the comic
370
00:20:01,287 --> 00:20:04,246
because it was selling really well,
371
00:20:04,290 --> 00:20:06,509
I think issue eight
was our high point,
372
00:20:06,553 --> 00:20:08,685
135,000 copies of
a black-and-white comic.
373
00:20:10,034 --> 00:20:11,993
It was really
a dream come true,
374
00:20:12,036 --> 00:20:14,125
we were doing exactly
what we wanted to do,
375
00:20:14,169 --> 00:20:16,215
drawing what we
wanted to draw
376
00:20:16,258 --> 00:20:17,694
and making
good money at it.
377
00:20:17,738 --> 00:20:19,043
Pete!
378
00:20:19,087 --> 00:20:20,087
What's that, Kev?
379
00:20:21,481 --> 00:20:23,483
See, we had a design idea here.
380
00:20:23,526 --> 00:20:25,615
See up here where it's all white,
381
00:20:25,659 --> 00:20:29,271
and this is a solid black building wall.
382
00:20:29,315 --> 00:20:32,235
I kind of got the idea that I thought
it should go all the way to the top.
383
00:20:38,193 --> 00:20:42,371
The fact that it was selling more
than The Avengers was kind of wacky,
384
00:20:42,415 --> 00:20:44,417
but to me it still
wasn't mainstream,
385
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:46,723
and it wasn't mainstream
until Surge Licensing hit
386
00:20:46,767 --> 00:20:48,203
and the Turtles
really changed
387
00:20:48,247 --> 00:20:51,293
and became more of
a mainstream product.
388
00:20:51,337 --> 00:20:53,600
That was what
really surprised me.
389
00:20:53,643 --> 00:20:55,645
When the boys decided,
"You know what,
390
00:20:55,689 --> 00:20:59,170
"we're gonna not
control this so much,
391
00:20:59,214 --> 00:21:00,781
"we're gonna
open it up
392
00:21:00,824 --> 00:21:03,523
"and we're gonna let it
be something for kids."
393
00:21:03,566 --> 00:21:06,003
That was a really
interesting decision.
394
00:21:07,091 --> 00:21:09,180
Then the Turtles
went mainstream
395
00:21:09,224 --> 00:21:10,878
in a way that nobody
could have expected.
396
00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:33,596
The fact that Mark
Freedman showed up as a fan
397
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,556
and convinced Kevin and Peter
398
00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:39,036
to let him take this chance with the toys
399
00:21:40,734 --> 00:21:42,257
was another one of these moments
400
00:21:42,301 --> 00:21:45,521
where without this one thing,
401
00:21:45,565 --> 00:21:48,785
the whole franchise
would never have existed.
402
00:21:53,486 --> 00:21:56,378
We started getting a couple calls
from licensing agents, people that said...
403
00:21:56,402 --> 00:21:57,707
We'd get this
call and be like,
404
00:21:57,751 --> 00:21:59,622
"I'm so-and-so,
I'm from New York,
405
00:21:59,666 --> 00:22:01,102
"I represent
blah, blah, blah...
406
00:22:01,145 --> 00:22:03,670
"I think that your
characters would make
407
00:22:03,713 --> 00:22:05,976
"great cartoon characters
or toy characters."
408
00:22:07,021 --> 00:22:09,110
When I first heard the words.
409
00:22:09,153 --> 00:22:11,634
"Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,"
410
00:22:11,678 --> 00:22:14,115
I jumped out of my skin.
411
00:22:14,158 --> 00:22:16,509
There was something about that name.
412
00:22:16,552 --> 00:22:18,182
We had a meeting with
a couple of these guys
413
00:22:18,206 --> 00:22:19,903
that we really weren't
that impressed with
414
00:22:19,947 --> 00:22:23,472
and until I think
415
00:22:23,516 --> 00:22:26,954
agent number five or six that called
was a guy named Mark Freedman,
416
00:22:26,997 --> 00:22:28,410
and he wanted to
come up and meet with us.
417
00:22:28,434 --> 00:22:29,913
He showed up at
our office door,
418
00:22:29,957 --> 00:22:32,176
both Peter and
I were in shorts
419
00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:34,633
and short-sleeved shirts, and
we had been re-painting the office.
420
00:22:34,657 --> 00:22:38,357
So, it was one of these
worlds in collision kind of things.
421
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,681
My suit was rented, my tie
was rented, my car was rented.
422
00:22:41,838 --> 00:22:44,406
I am absolutely camera
shy. I absolutely hate it.
423
00:22:44,450 --> 00:22:46,190
Too late, Mark.
424
00:22:46,234 --> 00:22:49,019
He starts on a spiel
where, "I want five years
425
00:22:49,063 --> 00:22:51,674
"and I want this and I want
to do blah, blah, blah..."
426
00:22:51,718 --> 00:22:53,739
And we said, "Mark, we've
been down this road before,
427
00:22:53,763 --> 00:22:55,175
"we understand
trademark and copyright,
428
00:22:55,199 --> 00:22:56,636
"and we've
protected our characters
429
00:22:56,679 --> 00:23:01,467
"and we're very happy with
the business we have now."
430
00:23:01,510 --> 00:23:04,731
I know I've gotta represent
the Turtles, this is gonna be it,
431
00:23:05,906 --> 00:23:08,909
and I would have done any deal with them.
432
00:23:08,952 --> 00:23:12,260
"We'll give you 30 days,
45 days, and you go out
433
00:23:12,303 --> 00:23:14,456
"and if you can bring back
something interesting offer-wise,
434
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:15,718
"then we'll continue
talking with you,
435
00:23:15,742 --> 00:23:17,352
"and you'll
progress from there."
436
00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:20,181
They gave me two things
as a going away present.
437
00:23:20,224 --> 00:23:24,620
One was an original first
printing of the comic
438
00:23:24,664 --> 00:23:28,407
where they wrote, "Go out
and make me $1 million or else."
439
00:23:28,450 --> 00:23:33,281
And they also gave me a 4-foot
foam rubber replica of a Turtle,
440
00:23:33,324 --> 00:23:35,631
which I knew
would really help me
441
00:23:36,850 --> 00:23:39,592
in presenting this
to various toy companies
442
00:23:39,635 --> 00:23:41,245
and broadcasters and
so on and so forth.
443
00:23:41,289 --> 00:23:43,987
I'm leaving Northampton in my rented car
444
00:23:44,031 --> 00:23:46,337
and I've got this
4-foot turtle next to me.
445
00:23:46,381 --> 00:23:50,254
I had in my hands
what I hoped would be,
446
00:23:50,298 --> 00:23:53,040
of course, no one knew, what
I hoped would be a terrific hit.
447
00:23:53,083 --> 00:23:54,955
Now the real work begins.
448
00:24:03,267 --> 00:24:06,053
I was laughed at
by a lot of people.
449
00:24:06,096 --> 00:24:08,640
I even heard secondhand that
even Disney looked at it at one point
450
00:24:08,664 --> 00:24:11,580
and thought
it was ridiculous.
451
00:24:11,624 --> 00:24:15,279
So, again, it's the classic
story of people always reject
452
00:24:15,323 --> 00:24:17,194
what they don't understand.
453
00:24:19,806 --> 00:24:23,984
Ultimately, I contacted a guy
by the name of Richard Sallis,
454
00:24:24,027 --> 00:24:26,813
who was the marketing
director at Playmates Toys.
455
00:24:26,856 --> 00:24:29,424
And I tell him, "I have a
really interesting property.
456
00:24:29,468 --> 00:24:31,208
"I've got to send
you something first."
457
00:24:31,252 --> 00:24:32,471
I call up my friend Richard,
458
00:24:32,514 --> 00:24:33,752
I said, "Richard, you get the box?"
459
00:24:33,776 --> 00:24:36,823
He said, "Yeah. What is it?"
460
00:24:36,866 --> 00:24:39,913
And Playmates
manufactured action figures
461
00:24:39,956 --> 00:24:42,481
for all kinds of companies,
including Mattel.
462
00:24:42,524 --> 00:24:44,744
But they weren't marketed
under their own name.
463
00:24:44,787 --> 00:24:46,528
So, we were interested
464
00:24:46,572 --> 00:24:48,661
in possibly getting into
the action figure business,
465
00:24:48,704 --> 00:24:50,334
but I only wanted to do it
if we could do something
466
00:24:50,358 --> 00:24:52,316
that was completely
different.
467
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:55,624
And one particular day, these
black-and-white comic books came in
468
00:24:55,668 --> 00:24:57,974
about the Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
469
00:24:58,018 --> 00:25:00,803
And Karl Aaronian, who was
the marketing guy, and myself
470
00:25:00,847 --> 00:25:02,936
were asked
to evaluate these
471
00:25:02,979 --> 00:25:04,914
and see what we thought,
if there was anything there.
472
00:25:04,938 --> 00:25:07,549
Richard Sallis, who
eventually became my boss,
473
00:25:07,593 --> 00:25:11,466
and really the key to
Turtles in many ways,
474
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:13,488
threw me a couple of the
comic books across the table
475
00:25:13,512 --> 00:25:16,558
and said, "What do you think about this?"
476
00:25:16,602 --> 00:25:19,909
And I guess I gave the right
answer, because I got hired.
477
00:25:19,953 --> 00:25:22,738
And we both independently
fell in love with them
478
00:25:22,782 --> 00:25:24,218
and thought in
their current form,
479
00:25:24,261 --> 00:25:26,263
they're a little
too adult for kids,
480
00:25:26,307 --> 00:25:29,658
but in a different form, the
essence of what they were all about
481
00:25:29,702 --> 00:25:31,573
would be perfect
for an action figure line.
482
00:25:31,617 --> 00:25:33,053
The more we worked with it,
483
00:25:33,096 --> 00:25:35,403
the more we had tangible
things in our hands,
484
00:25:35,446 --> 00:25:38,101
the more we decided this
was gonna be really big.
485
00:25:38,145 --> 00:25:40,321
And being the
over-promoter that I am,
486
00:25:40,364 --> 00:25:41,516
I told everyone
in the company,
487
00:25:41,540 --> 00:25:43,454
"On Friday,
you're gonna see
488
00:25:43,498 --> 00:25:45,171
"the best product line
you've ever seen in your life,
489
00:25:45,195 --> 00:25:47,197
"it's gonna change
the face of Playmates Toys."
490
00:25:47,241 --> 00:25:49,156
So everyone came.
491
00:25:49,199 --> 00:25:50,679
We sat around
this big table,
492
00:25:50,723 --> 00:25:52,725
and Karl and I proceeded
493
00:25:52,768 --> 00:25:55,007
to tell the story of the Turtles
and show these products,
494
00:25:55,031 --> 00:25:57,120
and we were so into it,
we weren't even really
495
00:25:57,164 --> 00:25:59,427
watching the reaction
of the crowd,
496
00:25:59,470 --> 00:26:01,995
which wasn't
particularly good.
497
00:26:04,998 --> 00:26:07,522
I remember sitting in
my office with Karl,
498
00:26:07,566 --> 00:26:09,785
and we were
polishing up our resumes.
499
00:26:09,829 --> 00:26:11,850
Just basically we gotta get out
of here, because we just had...
500
00:26:11,874 --> 00:26:13,397
We just wasted
three months
501
00:26:13,441 --> 00:26:15,182
and the company's
not that happy with us.
502
00:26:15,225 --> 00:26:17,314
And in comes
Richard Sallis,
503
00:26:17,358 --> 00:26:19,055
who was the
head of marketing,
504
00:26:19,099 --> 00:26:22,581
and he said, "Hey, guys, I
really loved the Turtles on Friday.
505
00:26:22,624 --> 00:26:24,064
"That was great.
Great product line."
506
00:26:26,106 --> 00:26:28,891
And we were just silent,
and I said, "Mr. Sallis,
507
00:26:28,935 --> 00:26:30,501
"it would be awfully
great of you
508
00:26:30,545 --> 00:26:32,329
"if you had said
something in the meeting,
509
00:26:32,373 --> 00:26:34,201
"we needed a little bit
of support there."
510
00:26:34,244 --> 00:26:35,613
And he goes, "No,
you lost the crowd,
511
00:26:35,637 --> 00:26:37,726
"the crowd was
against you,
512
00:26:37,770 --> 00:26:39,772
"but it's not the end.
It's never quite the end."
513
00:26:44,951 --> 00:26:47,040
The comic wasn't reaching
a broad enough audience.
514
00:26:47,083 --> 00:26:50,304
So, we knew before
we could sell a single toy,
515
00:26:50,347 --> 00:26:54,438
we had to produce the
backstory in animation.
516
00:26:54,482 --> 00:26:56,658
We had to tell the story through television
517
00:26:56,702 --> 00:26:57,702
and bring it to the kids.
518
00:27:05,101 --> 00:27:08,583
It was 1985 or '86
519
00:27:08,627 --> 00:27:10,803
when an advertising agency
520
00:27:10,846 --> 00:27:14,850
named Sachs Finley
came to me with a comic book
521
00:27:14,894 --> 00:27:17,418
and put it down on the table in front of me
522
00:27:17,461 --> 00:27:20,769
and said, "Fred, can you
make a TV show out of this?"
523
00:27:20,813 --> 00:27:22,510
First I kept staring
at the title,
524
00:27:22,553 --> 00:27:24,251
and I thought,
"This is cool."
525
00:27:24,294 --> 00:27:26,296
And I said, "Well, I'll look at it,
526
00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:28,255
"but I think it's safe to say
527
00:27:28,298 --> 00:27:30,823
"I can make a TV program
of just about anything."
528
00:27:30,866 --> 00:27:32,426
They went to a writer
named Chuck Lorre.
529
00:27:33,956 --> 00:27:38,221
Chuck Lorre created
Grace Under Fire,
530
00:27:38,265 --> 00:27:41,007
Big Bang Theory,
Two and a Half Men.
531
00:27:41,050 --> 00:27:46,273
He's the most successful
sitcom guy probably of all time.
532
00:27:46,316 --> 00:27:49,798
At that time,
he was doing animation
533
00:27:49,842 --> 00:27:53,236
and he was already
moving into sitcoms,
534
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,412
and he just didn't
have the time to do it.
535
00:27:55,456 --> 00:27:57,676
He said,
"But I know this guy
536
00:27:57,719 --> 00:27:59,460
"who would be
perfect for it."
537
00:27:59,503 --> 00:28:03,507
And working with the writer, David Wise,
538
00:28:03,551 --> 00:28:06,685
who was, in my opinion, what really set
539
00:28:08,382 --> 00:28:10,645
the keystone of the whole franchise.
540
00:28:10,689 --> 00:28:13,561
He said,
"I'm calling because
541
00:28:13,604 --> 00:28:15,694
"we're going to be
doing this new show."
542
00:28:17,304 --> 00:28:20,350
And with great embarrassment in his voice
543
00:28:20,394 --> 00:28:27,270
he said, "It's sort of about
teenagers and mutants."
544
00:28:27,314 --> 00:28:29,925
And I said, "Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles?"
545
00:28:29,969 --> 00:28:33,624
And you could
hear him
546
00:28:33,668 --> 00:28:36,062
fall over backwards at
the other end of the line.
547
00:28:36,105 --> 00:28:38,238
You could hear the back
of his head hit the floor,
548
00:28:38,281 --> 00:28:40,129
when he picked himself up,
he said, "You've heard of it?"
549
00:28:40,153 --> 00:28:42,285
I said, "I have the first
five issues of the comic."
550
00:28:42,329 --> 00:28:46,376
So, very cleverly, while Playmates
Toys was designing these toys
551
00:28:46,420 --> 00:28:49,075
to be made from
the comic book,
552
00:28:49,118 --> 00:28:51,642
we were making the TV show.
553
00:28:51,686 --> 00:28:53,775
It's
such a genius title,
554
00:28:53,819 --> 00:28:56,517
it's such a genius concept.
555
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,476
If we do it right,
it could be a hit.
556
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,653
And so really, especially
those first five episodes
557
00:29:02,697 --> 00:29:06,005
that set the table for
everything else that followed
558
00:29:06,048 --> 00:29:08,747
was a collaborative
effort between Playmates
559
00:29:08,790 --> 00:29:11,401
and Fred and everybody else.
560
00:29:11,445 --> 00:29:13,926
Playmates Toys.
561
00:29:13,969 --> 00:29:16,624
Playmates Toys flew
us out to California
562
00:29:16,667 --> 00:29:19,148
and started discussing
the Turtles as toys.
563
00:29:20,541 --> 00:29:22,108
Added into the mix
shortly thereafter
564
00:29:22,151 --> 00:29:23,631
was Turtles as
an animated series,
565
00:29:23,674 --> 00:29:27,678
and even in those days,
you're talking '86, '87,
566
00:29:27,722 --> 00:29:29,439
you still had to have
this partnership between
567
00:29:29,463 --> 00:29:32,292
the animation and toy companies
as commercial exploitation
568
00:29:32,335 --> 00:29:34,009
and get the thing out there
so everybody makes money.
569
00:29:34,033 --> 00:29:35,991
This is very neat.
570
00:29:36,035 --> 00:29:38,080
It's pretty nutty.
571
00:29:39,603 --> 00:29:41,562
Let's talk first about action figures.
572
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:47,481
In December of 1986,
573
00:29:47,524 --> 00:29:51,877
we signed our first license
with Playmates Toys.
574
00:29:54,096 --> 00:29:55,924
Kevin called and says,
"Get over here,
575
00:29:55,968 --> 00:29:57,665
"we got big news."
576
00:29:57,708 --> 00:30:00,537
So, Jim and I hopped
in the car and went over,
577
00:30:00,581 --> 00:30:03,541
and they said Playmates had accepted
the Turtles and they were gonna do it.
578
00:30:05,978 --> 00:30:07,936
And it was just great,
it was just amazing.
579
00:30:11,505 --> 00:30:13,681
Yeah! Yeah!
580
00:30:13,724 --> 00:30:17,206
Mom goes, "This is
my dream come true."
581
00:30:17,250 --> 00:30:19,643
It was a surreal
moment to think
582
00:30:21,428 --> 00:30:24,518
less than three years
583
00:30:24,561 --> 00:30:27,347
after we scraped
together the money
584
00:30:27,390 --> 00:30:30,480
to publish this first issue
of the Turtle comic,
585
00:30:30,524 --> 00:30:34,049
we were gonna have
a TV show and a toy line.
586
00:30:34,093 --> 00:30:36,225
Ladies and gentlemen,
587
00:30:36,269 --> 00:30:38,880
this is for the Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
588
00:30:38,924 --> 00:30:40,621
Wait a minute, is it on?
589
00:30:47,671 --> 00:30:49,325
We should do
a massive toast.
590
00:31:12,914 --> 00:31:15,874
In the early iterations
of our product line,
591
00:31:15,917 --> 00:31:17,745
we had a lot of
things that we were
592
00:31:17,788 --> 00:31:19,442
looking at and
struggling with.
593
00:31:19,486 --> 00:31:22,663
We thought we would
take everyone who would be
594
00:31:22,706 --> 00:31:25,013
a recognizable kind of
character in New York City,
595
00:31:25,057 --> 00:31:27,059
a fireman,
policeman, baker,
596
00:31:27,102 --> 00:31:29,017
most of them
were bad guys,
597
00:31:29,061 --> 00:31:31,802
and they had weapons
relating to their profession.
598
00:31:36,155 --> 00:31:38,287
Powerfully spring-loaded
leg right here,
599
00:31:38,331 --> 00:31:40,420
you'd cock it back
600
00:31:40,463 --> 00:31:42,964
and then you got your trigger in
the back, and you aim this thing.
601
00:31:42,988 --> 00:31:44,380
And Kevin and Peter
had to look
602
00:31:44,424 --> 00:31:46,817
at all these things about
these crazy bakers
603
00:31:46,861 --> 00:31:49,995
that had pizza throwing
devices and all this stuff.
604
00:31:50,038 --> 00:31:54,477
There's an aspect of this
character that disturbs me,
605
00:31:54,521 --> 00:31:57,828
and it's sort of related to what
we were talking about earlier
606
00:31:57,872 --> 00:32:02,398
about drifting over into
the really silly stupid realm.
607
00:32:02,442 --> 00:32:05,097
Yeah, too beyond. Too much.
608
00:32:06,272 --> 00:32:08,404
We did some goofier things,
609
00:32:08,448 --> 00:32:11,799
and even the figures themselves,
610
00:32:11,842 --> 00:32:14,845
quite frankly, were
probably too ambitious,
611
00:32:14,889 --> 00:32:17,718
because we had sculpted
figures that were huge,
612
00:32:17,761 --> 00:32:20,547
and some of the bad guys were muscle-bound
613
00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:23,724
and probably would have
been a $10 figure in 1988.
614
00:32:25,813 --> 00:32:27,771
You have to go
as far as you can
615
00:32:27,815 --> 00:32:30,383
and iterate as much
as you can
616
00:32:30,426 --> 00:32:31,993
and then
pull it back in.
617
00:32:32,037 --> 00:32:33,995
If you start narrow focused,
you'll stay there,
618
00:32:34,039 --> 00:32:35,779
so we blew it out
as big as we could.
619
00:32:37,042 --> 00:32:39,522
The key for playsets
in those days
620
00:32:39,566 --> 00:32:42,308
is let the playset be
a character as well.
621
00:32:42,351 --> 00:32:45,964
So if you remember Snake
Mountain and Castle Grayskull
622
00:32:46,007 --> 00:32:48,227
and all these things,
they had characters to them.
623
00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:50,031
So, we were even struggling
with what would the Turtle...
624
00:32:50,055 --> 00:32:52,318
Would there be something
built into the walls
625
00:32:52,361 --> 00:32:55,234
of the Turtles' lair
in the sewer
626
00:32:55,277 --> 00:32:59,020
that would be a character that
could also talk and be part of it?
627
00:32:59,064 --> 00:33:01,370
But I think what happened
628
00:33:01,414 --> 00:33:03,894
is Bill Carlson felt like
that looked like a deity.
629
00:33:03,938 --> 00:33:06,897
He said there'll be no
deities in the Playmates line,
630
00:33:06,941 --> 00:33:09,161
so we had to
cancel that out,
631
00:33:09,204 --> 00:33:11,206
and it didn't hurt anything
to get rid of it
632
00:33:11,250 --> 00:33:12,729
because it really
didn't need that.
633
00:33:12,773 --> 00:33:15,732
That was just a place
for them to hang out
634
00:33:15,776 --> 00:33:18,126
and it made it
less complicated
635
00:33:18,170 --> 00:33:20,302
to explain what that
character was anyway.
636
00:33:20,346 --> 00:33:22,870
Like anything else, we
retrenched and said, "Okay,
637
00:33:22,913 --> 00:33:25,699
"let's dial it back
a couple of notches
638
00:33:25,742 --> 00:33:29,007
"and let's try to make this
a little more realistic."
639
00:33:29,050 --> 00:33:32,793
So, it meant making the
figures somewhat smaller.
640
00:33:34,882 --> 00:33:36,405
This to me is like
the perfect size.
641
00:33:36,449 --> 00:33:37,537
Is that
the size you want?
642
00:33:37,580 --> 00:33:38,364
That's the size we're going for.
643
00:33:38,407 --> 00:33:39,974
I love it.
644
00:33:40,018 --> 00:33:42,063
Three and a half inches
was the scale we picked,
645
00:33:42,107 --> 00:33:43,282
and that's small,
646
00:33:43,325 --> 00:33:45,458
that would be
the size of a G.I. Joe,
647
00:33:45,501 --> 00:33:48,069
but with the bulk of the
Turtles, they looked bigger.
648
00:33:48,113 --> 00:33:49,897
And then that
scale worked with
649
00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:52,639
all kinds of vehicles
that we could create.
650
00:33:52,682 --> 00:33:55,859
We put the essence of
the Turtle into every product,
651
00:33:55,903 --> 00:33:59,254
so the van had
the turtle shell top
652
00:33:59,298 --> 00:34:02,388
and the helicopter had
that grimacing face,
653
00:34:02,431 --> 00:34:05,086
and we just had turtle essence
in all of the stuff that they had.
654
00:34:05,130 --> 00:34:08,437
The Turtles' lair playset
and the Technodrome
655
00:34:08,481 --> 00:34:11,049
were these golden opportunities
656
00:34:11,092 --> 00:34:14,313
to put everything in its correct context.
657
00:34:14,356 --> 00:34:16,880
They were almost legendary
among my friends.
658
00:34:20,406 --> 00:34:23,148
I basically wanted a
mobile villain's headquarters.
659
00:34:23,191 --> 00:34:25,237
So I had the idea of this
big giant thing on wheels,
660
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,762
and I said,
"It's this huge globe,
661
00:34:28,805 --> 00:34:31,721
"it's like a world, it's like
a Death Star on wheels."
662
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:34,898
So, that's what
the design did.
663
00:34:34,942 --> 00:34:36,117
What I didn't say was,
664
00:34:36,161 --> 00:34:38,119
"It had a big
eyeball on top."
665
00:34:38,163 --> 00:34:40,339
That wasn't my idea,
that was a design idea.
666
00:34:40,382 --> 00:34:43,385
My physical contribution just
on the action figures alone,
667
00:34:43,429 --> 00:34:45,692
taking one that
was already posed out
668
00:34:45,735 --> 00:34:49,043
and deciding to cut that up
as a posed figure.
669
00:34:49,087 --> 00:34:52,525
Not with the arms straight
down and the legs straight out,
670
00:34:52,568 --> 00:34:57,617
and cut the limbs and bias the
forearms and put the ball sockets in,
671
00:34:57,660 --> 00:35:01,664
and actually realized that that
makes a better figure than one that was
672
00:35:01,708 --> 00:35:03,492
traditionally
before that.
673
00:35:03,536 --> 00:35:04,928
They were all
straight up and down
674
00:35:04,972 --> 00:35:06,930
and you put the
pose on them.
675
00:35:06,974 --> 00:35:11,065
Well, we started with the first
size study that Steve Varner did
676
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:13,720
and actually made the
articulation based on that.
677
00:35:13,763 --> 00:35:16,592
He just had the black-and-white
comic book, that's all he had.
678
00:35:16,636 --> 00:35:19,160
He just showed me the
comic book and it was really
679
00:35:19,204 --> 00:35:23,773
up to me to come up
with my version of it.
680
00:35:23,817 --> 00:35:27,037
And to begin with, at
least on these first ones,
681
00:35:27,081 --> 00:35:29,214
there were no
drawings involved,
682
00:35:29,257 --> 00:35:31,085
I just did it in 3D.
683
00:35:31,129 --> 00:35:33,696
I just kind of went,
684
00:35:33,740 --> 00:35:36,743
"Okay, well, this is what I would
do to make it the way I like it."
685
00:35:36,786 --> 00:35:39,267
The only
differences, really,
686
00:35:39,311 --> 00:35:43,793
is that first one that we
did had a tail, which we lost.
687
00:35:43,837 --> 00:35:47,057
But other than that, it just
pretty much stayed the same.
688
00:35:47,101 --> 00:35:50,278
There was a lot of focus on the
fact that they were in the sewer.
689
00:35:50,322 --> 00:35:51,975
And what's in the sewer,
you know?
690
00:35:52,019 --> 00:35:55,631
Nasty, ugly, stinky stuff,
691
00:35:55,675 --> 00:35:59,461
and how can we play that up,
but in a nice clean way
692
00:35:59,505 --> 00:36:02,464
for consumption?
Not literally, hopefully.
693
00:36:02,508 --> 00:36:04,988
Most toy guys would realize from day one
694
00:36:05,032 --> 00:36:09,254
that you've gotta sell
multiple characters, figures,
695
00:36:09,297 --> 00:36:12,300
and if they look identical or similar,
696
00:36:12,344 --> 00:36:13,997
that's gonna be tough to do.
697
00:36:14,041 --> 00:36:15,932
That's probably the only
limitation of Turtles I can think of.
698
00:36:15,956 --> 00:36:17,194
It's perfect in every other respect,
699
00:36:17,218 --> 00:36:18,654
it's unique, it's exciting,
700
00:36:18,698 --> 00:36:20,613
is that a Turtle's a Turtle.
701
00:36:20,656 --> 00:36:22,267
So, from day one, I think he realized,
702
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:23,572
even in the graphic novels
703
00:36:23,616 --> 00:36:25,705
where they all had red bandanas,
704
00:36:25,748 --> 00:36:28,925
that there had to be more
differentiation of the Turtles.
705
00:36:28,969 --> 00:36:30,449
If you have
four characters,
706
00:36:30,492 --> 00:36:32,494
especially four characters
who look alike,
707
00:36:32,538 --> 00:36:34,627
you want to give them
distinct personalities.
708
00:36:34,670 --> 00:36:36,846
In the comic, the only way
you could tell them apart
709
00:36:36,890 --> 00:36:40,110
was by what weapon
they were carrying.
710
00:36:40,154 --> 00:36:43,766
Now, that ended up being done
with color more than anything else.
711
00:36:43,810 --> 00:36:48,336
So, the bandana colors, the
pad colors and the skin colors.
712
00:36:48,380 --> 00:36:51,296
And then the added initial
on the belt buckle
713
00:36:51,339 --> 00:36:53,254
was just a way
to reinforce that.
714
00:36:53,298 --> 00:36:55,256
The whole idea
was that you could
715
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:56,668
immediately tell the
difference between the Turtles
716
00:36:56,692 --> 00:36:59,129
by looking at the figures,
717
00:36:59,173 --> 00:37:00,773
whether they were in the package or not.
718
00:37:03,656 --> 00:37:05,440
And when you
have groups of four,
719
00:37:05,484 --> 00:37:08,095
there's sort of
a classic archetype four.
720
00:37:08,138 --> 00:37:09,290
And there's
a reason for that,
721
00:37:09,314 --> 00:37:10,837
because it's
kind of like
722
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,276
spirit, mind, body,
left foot, I don't know.
723
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:16,600
If you just looked
at the comics,
724
00:37:16,625 --> 00:37:18,627
at our drawings
of the Turtles,
725
00:37:18,671 --> 00:37:20,692
you couldn't tell one from the
other, except for the weapon.
726
00:37:20,716 --> 00:37:22,805
You couldn't say
one's the leader, right?
727
00:37:22,849 --> 00:37:25,852
But everyone
who reads it,
728
00:37:25,895 --> 00:37:27,873
all these little kids, they
know Leonardo's the leader,
729
00:37:27,897 --> 00:37:29,769
they know Raphael's
the crazy one,
730
00:37:29,812 --> 00:37:31,684
they know Michelangelo
is the goofy one,
731
00:37:31,727 --> 00:37:34,121
they know Donatello
is the serious one.Right.
732
00:37:34,164 --> 00:37:37,080
And I think once the kids
start getting into the stories,
733
00:37:37,124 --> 00:37:40,693
and especially if the
animation is gonna be on TV,
734
00:37:40,736 --> 00:37:43,652
and they're gonna be
absorbing these kinds of stories
735
00:37:43,696 --> 00:37:46,481
and the toys will feed
into the TV and vice versa.
736
00:37:46,525 --> 00:37:48,242
And I really thought, "What
will work for these guys
737
00:37:48,266 --> 00:37:51,007
"and what will work for
making a TV series?"
738
00:37:51,051 --> 00:37:53,662
Well, you need a leader,
he would be the most
739
00:37:53,706 --> 00:37:56,012
into the martial arts, and
the lore of the martial arts
740
00:37:56,056 --> 00:37:58,319
and the tradition
and the training.
741
00:37:58,363 --> 00:38:01,844
You need the science guy,
the gadget guy,
742
00:38:01,888 --> 00:38:04,978
theMacGyver guy, and that
obviously became Donatello.
743
00:38:05,021 --> 00:38:07,154
You need a sarcastic one,
and that became Raphael.
744
00:38:07,197 --> 00:38:09,678
You need somebody
745
00:38:09,722 --> 00:38:13,682
who really embodies
the teenageness
746
00:38:13,726 --> 00:38:16,642
of the fact that
these are teenagers,
747
00:38:16,685 --> 00:38:18,818
and who embodies
that spirit of fun
748
00:38:18,861 --> 00:38:21,821
and that is gonna
be Michelangelo.
749
00:38:21,864 --> 00:38:24,824
And I will tell you that my
original idea with Michelangelo
750
00:38:24,867 --> 00:38:28,610
was to make him
kind of street.
751
00:38:28,654 --> 00:38:31,265
And, in fact, you will
notice the very first line
752
00:38:31,309 --> 00:38:33,441
spoken by a Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtle
753
00:38:33,485 --> 00:38:36,183
in the first episode
754
00:38:36,226 --> 00:38:39,491
of Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtlesis what?
755
00:38:39,534 --> 00:38:41,449
Chill out, homeboy.
756
00:38:41,493 --> 00:38:44,060
It was a modest, focused toy line.
757
00:38:44,104 --> 00:38:46,236
A half-dozen assortments,
758
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,283
10 figures, and
that was about it.
759
00:38:49,327 --> 00:38:51,894
Toys "R" Us loved it,
thought it was super fresh
760
00:38:51,938 --> 00:38:54,462
and were very excited
about it and said
761
00:38:54,506 --> 00:38:56,812
that they would take
a major position on it,
762
00:38:56,856 --> 00:38:59,075
and we started
moving forward.
763
00:38:59,119 --> 00:39:03,079
So, the TV show first aired late '87
764
00:39:03,123 --> 00:39:04,733
between Christmas and New Year's.
765
00:39:04,777 --> 00:39:06,344
And the ratings were great.
766
00:39:19,531 --> 00:39:21,663
The very first Playmates.
767
00:39:21,707 --> 00:39:24,013
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle action figures
768
00:39:24,057 --> 00:39:26,799
hit the shelves
and they sold out.
769
00:39:26,842 --> 00:39:29,212
Your kids are gonna be real
familiar with these characters soon,
770
00:39:29,236 --> 00:39:31,673
the cartoon show debuted
just last weekend
771
00:39:31,717 --> 00:39:34,720
on almost 200
stations nationwide.
772
00:39:34,763 --> 00:39:36,417
For an adult,
as you can imagine,
773
00:39:36,461 --> 00:39:38,941
the whole idea seems,
well...
774
00:39:38,985 --> 00:39:41,030
Pretty radical.
775
00:39:41,074 --> 00:39:43,685
They keep on adding
good guys and bad guys.
776
00:39:43,729 --> 00:39:45,992
At such a frenzied pace
777
00:39:46,035 --> 00:39:48,255
that you wonder how the
workers in this Chinese factory
778
00:39:48,298 --> 00:39:50,431
can keep up
with the demand.
779
00:39:50,475 --> 00:39:52,390
Guess what, they can't.
780
00:39:58,657 --> 00:40:01,790
So as we laughingly said, the first night
781
00:40:01,834 --> 00:40:05,838
of the TV shows being on the air,
782
00:40:05,881 --> 00:40:08,362
we heard all those trucks rustling out
783
00:40:08,406 --> 00:40:10,930
and all of the toys going
out to all the markets there.
784
00:40:10,973 --> 00:40:13,628
So, that's where it became
the biggest hit ever.
785
00:40:13,672 --> 00:40:15,978
And when it actually
appeared inTV Guide,
786
00:40:16,022 --> 00:40:18,198
and the shows aired
787
00:40:18,241 --> 00:40:19,697
and the ratings were good, and
we're sitting in our living rooms
788
00:40:19,721 --> 00:40:21,897
and watching these,
it's like, "Oh, my God,
789
00:40:21,941 --> 00:40:23,725
"it's really happening.
This is amazing!"
790
00:40:23,769 --> 00:40:26,989
I recall it being slightly
surreal, because
791
00:40:28,338 --> 00:40:31,254
we had done this thing
just for fun.
792
00:40:33,256 --> 00:40:36,738
And it really kind of
took on a life of its own.
793
00:40:38,784 --> 00:40:40,394
Playmates was delighted about it,
794
00:40:40,438 --> 00:40:42,614
so I was delighted after.
795
00:40:42,657 --> 00:40:43,678
So, I waited
a couple of weeks,
796
00:40:43,702 --> 00:40:45,486
then I contacted them again.
797
00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:48,010
I said,
"When do we do more?"
798
00:40:48,054 --> 00:40:49,925
And they said, "That's it.
There is no more."
799
00:40:51,536 --> 00:40:53,015
From Playmates.
800
00:40:55,191 --> 00:40:56,715
And I said, "What?
801
00:40:56,758 --> 00:40:58,325
"I mean, we got a big hit here."
802
00:40:58,368 --> 00:41:00,458
He says, "No, we're satisfied."
803
00:41:00,501 --> 00:41:03,199
Playmates, Richard Sallis, had indicated,
804
00:41:03,243 --> 00:41:06,202
"We did so well, we did so many million."
805
00:41:06,246 --> 00:41:09,205
I forget the number, but it
was something like 25 million.
806
00:41:09,249 --> 00:41:12,687
All right! Now we can
relax, catch some boob tube
807
00:41:12,731 --> 00:41:14,926
and forget about all that
weirdness we just went through.
808
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:16,648
And I said, "Well, who's got the rights?"
809
00:41:16,691 --> 00:41:18,563
He says, "Well, we
had the rights to the five
810
00:41:18,606 --> 00:41:21,653
"to produce and distribute.
811
00:41:21,696 --> 00:41:25,134
"So, you'd have to speak
to Mark Freedman of Surge."
812
00:41:25,178 --> 00:41:27,441
And I said, "Mark,
what'll it take to get this?"
813
00:41:27,485 --> 00:41:28,810
And he said,
"What did you want to do?"
814
00:41:28,834 --> 00:41:29,898
And I said, "Well, I
want to do more of them."
815
00:41:29,922 --> 00:41:31,401
And he liked that idea,
816
00:41:31,445 --> 00:41:33,795
and so we came to some conclusion,
817
00:41:33,839 --> 00:41:35,971
some idea that
I would get the rights.
818
00:41:39,671 --> 00:41:44,589
And the first assignment we
got from CBS involving the Turtles
819
00:41:44,632 --> 00:41:47,505
was an order for 26,
which was extraordinary
820
00:41:47,548 --> 00:41:50,333
because they usually tested the waters.
821
00:41:50,377 --> 00:41:52,553
But the waters were already tested,
822
00:41:52,597 --> 00:41:54,990
the Turtles were out there,
they were a raving success.
823
00:41:55,034 --> 00:41:58,080
The Turtles turned out to be
the saviors of the city.
824
00:41:58,124 --> 00:42:00,866
They're, like,
totally rad, man.
825
00:42:00,909 --> 00:42:04,260
Yeah, I want to be
a turtle when I grow up.
826
00:42:04,304 --> 00:42:06,872
But who are they?
Where did they come from?
827
00:42:06,915 --> 00:42:09,831
It's a complete mystery.
828
00:42:09,875 --> 00:42:13,052
And with Turtleson five days a
week on the CBS, came on Saturday,
829
00:42:13,095 --> 00:42:15,010
we're on six days a week,
830
00:42:15,054 --> 00:42:18,100
and for a couple of heartbeats or so
831
00:42:18,144 --> 00:42:21,060
there was something happening on Sunday.
832
00:42:21,103 --> 00:42:23,105
They were on seven days a week.
833
00:42:23,149 --> 00:42:26,979
We were turning out a show
every seven weeks.
834
00:42:27,022 --> 00:42:28,371
Six to seven weeks.
835
00:42:28,415 --> 00:42:31,810
A show turning
out to go overseas.
836
00:42:31,853 --> 00:42:35,291
And they would have an
additional six weeks to do something.
837
00:42:35,335 --> 00:42:39,557
So, within a 13-week cycle,
we'd have from beginning,
838
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,951
from the recording, to a
finished product, edited, delivered.
839
00:42:44,257 --> 00:42:47,129
It was fun to be
associated with it.
840
00:42:47,173 --> 00:42:49,871
But there was no place to really
go out and have bragging rights,
841
00:42:51,656 --> 00:42:54,484
to go out and sit in a bar
and say, "Do you know that
842
00:42:54,528 --> 00:42:56,748
"I'm the guy that's putting
this show together?"
843
00:42:58,184 --> 00:43:00,752
In the first episode,
I contrived a scene
844
00:43:00,795 --> 00:43:03,145
where Michelangelo
has to surf.
845
00:43:03,189 --> 00:43:05,060
They're in a building
that's being flooded,
846
00:43:05,104 --> 00:43:08,150
and there's a file cabinet that
goes over and he jumps on it,
847
00:43:08,194 --> 00:43:11,197
and I remembered
fromPeanuts
848
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:13,503
in around '64 or '65,
849
00:43:13,547 --> 00:43:17,203
Schulz did a sequence
where Snoopy is surfing
850
00:43:17,246 --> 00:43:19,771
and he goes, "Cowabunga!"
851
00:43:19,814 --> 00:43:21,381
That's where I got it from.
852
00:43:21,424 --> 00:43:23,644
Cowabunga!
853
00:43:23,688 --> 00:43:27,126
When Fred heard the recording
session, he said, "You know what,
854
00:43:27,169 --> 00:43:29,049
"that 'Cowabunga' really
works as a catchphrase,
855
00:43:30,825 --> 00:43:33,654
"let's use it again."
And I went, "Yeah."
856
00:43:33,698 --> 00:43:35,501
And so the next time, in the next
episode he's going, "Cowabunga."
857
00:43:35,525 --> 00:43:37,527
And then they're going,
"Cowabunga, dude."
858
00:43:37,571 --> 00:43:39,486
It's like "cowabunga"
and "dude."
859
00:43:39,529 --> 00:43:41,449
Putting them together,
that was my genius, folks.
860
00:43:43,838 --> 00:43:45,710
Cowabunga!
861
00:43:47,015 --> 00:43:49,452
The teenager needed
to be in there,
862
00:43:49,496 --> 00:43:50,691
and I thought, "Well,
what do teenagers do?"
863
00:43:50,715 --> 00:43:53,108
They eat pizza,
they watch videos.
864
00:43:53,152 --> 00:43:56,764
Fred quickly had the idea they
should put funny stuff on the pizzas.
865
00:43:56,808 --> 00:43:58,505
Who had the pepperoni
and ice cream?
866
00:43:58,548 --> 00:44:00,638
I want some of the jelly
beans and mushrooms!
867
00:44:00,681 --> 00:44:03,336
I mean, it was a contest
to figure out what kind of
868
00:44:05,512 --> 00:44:09,777
bubblegum, gefilte fish,
caviar, matzo balls.
869
00:44:09,821 --> 00:44:13,302
These characters, Rocksteady and Bebop
870
00:44:13,346 --> 00:44:16,871
were designed
initially by Playmates,
871
00:44:16,915 --> 00:44:19,178
so they were brought into
the show immediately.
872
00:44:19,221 --> 00:44:21,267
We had no qualms
about them.
873
00:44:21,310 --> 00:44:24,357
These are some ideas we
have for mutant characters,
874
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,228
or I should say Pete has.
875
00:44:26,272 --> 00:44:27,926
Now, this is cool.
876
00:44:27,969 --> 00:44:30,711
This is very neat!
877
00:44:30,755 --> 00:44:35,194
This is a good one.
This is a punk warthog
878
00:44:35,237 --> 00:44:37,152
with snot gun, I believe,
879
00:44:37,196 --> 00:44:39,111
or something similar.
880
00:44:39,154 --> 00:44:41,461
But after a while, they
started developing some other
881
00:44:41,504 --> 00:44:44,290
elements that became very complicated.
882
00:44:44,333 --> 00:44:45,493
Here's our famous Turtle Van.
883
00:44:46,814 --> 00:44:48,337
That's a little
complicated to draw.
884
00:44:52,951 --> 00:44:55,388
These are some
of the acetates.
885
00:44:55,431 --> 00:44:59,653
As I think by now, everybody
knows that these acetates are
886
00:44:59,697 --> 00:45:03,483
tracings of the drawing
and then painted on the back.
887
00:45:03,526 --> 00:45:05,790
And in animation,
unlike live action scripts
888
00:45:05,833 --> 00:45:08,749
where you generally
just write in master shots,
889
00:45:08,793 --> 00:45:11,621
and if there's a fight scene,
basically you say, "They fight,"
890
00:45:11,665 --> 00:45:14,320
unless there's
plot stuff going on.
891
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,758
In animation,
you break it down into shots
892
00:45:17,802 --> 00:45:20,413
and they don't
necessarily follow that,
893
00:45:20,456 --> 00:45:22,496
but it's to give them an
idea of where you're going.
894
00:45:26,854 --> 00:45:28,726
And we look
to you to start.
895
00:45:28,769 --> 00:45:30,728
You go first.Always.
896
00:45:30,771 --> 00:45:31,990
I'm like
Senator Foghorn.
897
00:45:32,033 --> 00:45:33,793
Let's look to the guy
with the biggest mouth.
898
00:45:35,167 --> 00:45:36,690
Are you rolling?
899
00:45:36,734 --> 00:45:39,040
My first encounter
with the Turtles
900
00:45:39,084 --> 00:45:41,042
was a call
from my agent.
901
00:45:41,086 --> 00:45:42,454
I mean, it was really nothing, no big deal.
902
00:45:42,478 --> 00:45:45,351
I mean, it was great to get a show.
903
00:45:45,394 --> 00:45:48,876
My agent called me and said,
"You have an audition for a show
904
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:50,811
"called Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles." I said, "What?"
905
00:45:50,835 --> 00:45:53,098
Stu, the director,
came in and he said,
906
00:45:53,141 --> 00:45:54,423
"You guys are not
gonna believe this,
907
00:45:54,447 --> 00:45:56,231
"I'm gonna be directing
this new show,
908
00:45:56,275 --> 00:45:58,843
"and I want to
bring you guys in on it,
909
00:45:58,886 --> 00:46:00,975
"but look at this."
And he opens his bag
910
00:46:01,019 --> 00:46:04,326
and he pulls out a copy of
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
911
00:46:04,370 --> 00:46:05,763
One of the original comics.
912
00:46:05,806 --> 00:46:07,242
Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles?
913
00:46:07,286 --> 00:46:08,940
Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles? What?
914
00:46:08,983 --> 00:46:12,030
It was just the mix,
it was the chemistry.
915
00:46:12,073 --> 00:46:13,771
Everyone had to
have chemistry,
916
00:46:13,814 --> 00:46:15,642
but particularly
the four of us
917
00:46:15,685 --> 00:46:18,166
had to really
feel like roommates.
918
00:46:18,210 --> 00:46:21,387
Yeah, we don't get
many humans down here.
919
00:46:21,430 --> 00:46:24,346
Tonight I dine
on turtle soup.
920
00:46:26,305 --> 00:46:28,437
I remember the first
session when I came in,
921
00:46:28,481 --> 00:46:29,850
and from the very
first session that I met
922
00:46:29,874 --> 00:46:31,274
all these people,
and it was just...
923
00:46:32,615 --> 00:46:35,793
It was a party, it was a joy.
It was a joy.
924
00:46:35,836 --> 00:46:38,143
Originally, when
we first started doing it,
925
00:46:38,186 --> 00:46:40,145
they didn't know whether Towney or I,
926
00:46:41,886 --> 00:46:43,844
who was gonna be Leonardo
927
00:46:43,888 --> 00:46:46,847
and who was gonna be Michelangelo.
928
00:46:46,891 --> 00:46:51,243
We were supposed to then
switch back and they never did.
929
00:46:51,286 --> 00:46:54,289
They sort of wanted the surfer
dude, kind of valley guy stuff,
930
00:46:54,333 --> 00:46:57,945
and the only thing I could think
about at the time was Sean Penn
931
00:46:57,989 --> 00:47:00,121
in Fast Times at
Ridgemont High.
932
00:47:00,165 --> 00:47:03,081
And so I kind
of drew upon that
933
00:47:03,124 --> 00:47:05,126
and did a bit of
my version of that.
934
00:47:05,170 --> 00:47:07,737
Let's show them the
Turtles know how to party!
935
00:47:07,781 --> 00:47:08,956
We've gotta practice!
936
00:47:10,479 --> 00:47:12,351
That was pretty much...
937
00:47:12,394 --> 00:47:14,832
I felt like the Professor
in Gilligan's Island.
938
00:47:14,875 --> 00:47:16,659
Well, no matter
how it happened,
939
00:47:16,703 --> 00:47:18,139
it's up to us
to do something!
940
00:47:20,054 --> 00:47:23,623
And he said, "Just kind of
be yourself with Donatello."
941
00:47:23,666 --> 00:47:25,190
So, I was.
I mean, I just...
942
00:47:25,233 --> 00:47:27,018
This is my voice
943
00:47:27,061 --> 00:47:28,430
and I just kind of
pitched it up here.
944
00:47:28,454 --> 00:47:30,282
Welcome aboard
the Turtle Blimp!
945
00:47:30,325 --> 00:47:32,327
It's almost
Shakespearean,
946
00:47:32,371 --> 00:47:33,851
it's almost
over the top
947
00:47:33,894 --> 00:47:36,114
and Shakespearean,
in that sense.
948
00:47:36,157 --> 00:47:37,942
The same way I would do this, I would go,
949
00:47:37,985 --> 00:47:40,509
"Mislike me not
for my complexion
950
00:47:40,553 --> 00:47:42,250
"the shadow of
the burnished sun,
951
00:47:42,294 --> 00:47:44,296
"to whom I am a neighbor
and near born."
952
00:47:44,339 --> 00:47:48,039
Killers!
953
00:47:48,082 --> 00:47:50,737
That's quite a brain
you've got, Krang!
954
00:47:50,780 --> 00:47:55,916
Of course it is,
it's all I've got.
955
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,572
Underneath, secretly, I was
playing a Jewish mother, with Krang.
956
00:47:59,615 --> 00:48:01,574
This is what I get,
957
00:48:01,617 --> 00:48:04,751
I shouldn't expect
anything else.
958
00:48:04,794 --> 00:48:07,797
You know?
They never knew, but it was funny.
959
00:48:07,841 --> 00:48:11,323
I in turn named them after my
favorite Renaissance painters.
960
00:48:11,366 --> 00:48:16,415
They wanted him to sound
like a very learned man.
961
00:48:17,938 --> 00:48:19,722
The sensei, the teacher.
962
00:48:19,766 --> 00:48:21,115
It's news!
963
00:48:22,856 --> 00:48:25,903
Wait, come back
with my hiding place!
964
00:48:25,946 --> 00:48:27,905
And when I had to do Vernon,
965
00:48:27,948 --> 00:48:30,081
I wanted to get as far
away from that as possible,
966
00:48:30,124 --> 00:48:34,346
so I got into a little
bit of a higher register.
967
00:48:34,389 --> 00:48:38,828
April, come on, let me do
something, let me get some credit.
968
00:48:38,872 --> 00:48:41,005
I came in one day and they
said, "You're doing Bebop."
969
00:48:41,048 --> 00:48:43,311
I'm real good
at video games.
970
00:48:43,355 --> 00:48:46,184
I had to make it really low.
971
00:48:46,227 --> 00:48:47,837
I did Rocksteady,
972
00:48:47,881 --> 00:48:50,318
and I just made him like a big, dumb kid.
973
00:48:50,362 --> 00:48:53,147
Third floor,
lingerie.
974
00:48:53,191 --> 00:48:56,107
And that is how
they became
975
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:59,327
the Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles.
976
00:48:59,371 --> 00:49:01,199
Cowabunga, dudes!
977
00:49:04,202 --> 00:49:06,117
Hiya!
978
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:07,683
I am Donatello.
979
00:49:11,513 --> 00:49:13,472
I'm Shredder.
980
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:19,217
This is April O'Neil, Channel 6 News.
981
00:49:19,260 --> 00:49:21,847
You should have seen some of the
outtakes, these people are insane.
982
00:49:21,871 --> 00:49:23,482
This man is crazy.
983
00:49:23,525 --> 00:49:25,484
Rule the universe!
984
00:49:25,527 --> 00:49:27,965
They're all crazy.
Him, all of them together.
985
00:49:28,008 --> 00:49:30,402
It was a pleasure
being Splinter.
986
00:49:30,445 --> 00:49:33,013
I've always been Donatello,
even before I turned green.
987
00:49:34,449 --> 00:49:36,843
Wait until the world
gets an eyeful of this!
988
00:49:40,107 --> 00:49:43,632
The five-part miniseries airs
989
00:49:43,676 --> 00:49:47,549
and all of a sudden it's like a
little tremor before an earthquake.
990
00:49:47,593 --> 00:49:49,899
We could just sense that
991
00:49:49,943 --> 00:49:52,946
kids were watching it, and they liked it.
992
00:49:52,990 --> 00:49:56,994
There was something going
on, it was almost electric.
993
00:49:57,037 --> 00:49:59,822
Today's hot new heroes
994
00:49:59,866 --> 00:50:02,390
are the Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles.
995
00:50:05,959 --> 00:50:08,266
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
996
00:50:08,309 --> 00:50:10,181
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
997
00:50:10,224 --> 00:50:11,791
The Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
998
00:50:11,834 --> 00:50:14,359
The crazy crime-fighting
Ninja Turtles.
999
00:50:14,402 --> 00:50:16,926
These heroes on the half
shell are now in the top 20
1000
00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:19,016
best-selling toys
in the country.
1001
00:50:19,059 --> 00:50:21,019
Your sons love those
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1002
00:50:21,061 --> 00:50:22,454
They do,
it's an amazing story.
1003
00:50:22,497 --> 00:50:24,238
Even adults
like them too!
1004
00:50:24,282 --> 00:50:25,935
Gentlemen,
it's history in the making.
1005
00:50:25,979 --> 00:50:27,459
Where you at? Aim that way.
1006
00:50:27,502 --> 00:50:28,851
Okay,
you're gonna narrate.
1007
00:50:28,895 --> 00:50:30,495
I'm gonna narrate.
History in the making.
1008
00:50:36,381 --> 00:50:39,079
And almost any parent of
young children can tell you
1009
00:50:39,123 --> 00:50:41,647
this is an idea whose time
has come to the silver screen.
1010
00:51:03,799 --> 00:51:07,629
It starts with a gentleman
by the name of Gary Propper,
1011
00:51:07,673 --> 00:51:11,024
who was the road manager
for the comedian, Gallagher.
1012
00:51:11,068 --> 00:51:13,331
And he found the first
graphic comic book,
1013
00:51:14,941 --> 00:51:18,771
and Gary Propper's manager
and Kim Dawson
1014
00:51:18,814 --> 00:51:21,643
used to direct Gallagher's
Showtime specials.
1015
00:51:21,687 --> 00:51:26,257
Kim was a pretty experienced
director of those shows
1016
00:51:26,300 --> 00:51:28,781
and knew a lot
about television,
1017
00:51:28,824 --> 00:51:31,610
but didn't really
have a lot of
1018
00:51:31,653 --> 00:51:33,873
influence or friends
directly
1019
00:51:33,916 --> 00:51:35,831
in the motion picture
industries.
1020
00:51:35,875 --> 00:51:38,530
Listen, Golden Harvest is
so right for this
1021
00:51:38,573 --> 00:51:41,837
because Golden Harvest did
the Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee films.
1022
00:51:41,881 --> 00:51:43,337
And they had
the best martial art guys
1023
00:51:43,361 --> 00:51:44,840
in the world,
which everybody knows.
1024
00:51:44,884 --> 00:51:47,669
And I went to
Tom Gray, my boss,
1025
00:51:47,713 --> 00:51:49,715
who looked at me
like I was smoking dope.
1026
00:51:49,758 --> 00:51:53,806
I said, "Bobby, I'm not
even interested in that title."
1027
00:51:53,849 --> 00:51:56,461
You know, "Why would I
even be interested in that?"
1028
00:51:56,504 --> 00:51:59,159
And he said, "Well,
it's gonna be big!"
1029
00:51:59,203 --> 00:52:02,162
I went, wallpapered
Hollywood for,
1030
00:52:02,206 --> 00:52:03,816
off and on,
three months
1031
00:52:03,859 --> 00:52:05,513
pitching it to everybody,
1032
00:52:05,557 --> 00:52:08,647
who also thought I was
on massive doses of drugs.
1033
00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:11,954
I'd go in and pitch it,
and they'd go, "Turtles?"
1034
00:52:11,998 --> 00:52:15,044
He said, "Well, would you do me a
favor and have a meeting with Kim,
1035
00:52:15,088 --> 00:52:17,525
"at least tell Kim why you
don't want to do it and whatever."
1036
00:52:17,569 --> 00:52:20,485
And I was more
interested in the food
1037
00:52:20,528 --> 00:52:23,966
than I was in listening to
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1038
00:52:24,010 --> 00:52:25,838
As I was pushing
out of the booth,
1039
00:52:25,881 --> 00:52:27,840
I took one of
the magazines,
1040
00:52:27,883 --> 00:52:30,103
and I looked at it
and I had an epiphany.
1041
00:52:30,147 --> 00:52:32,192
I suddenly got it.
I said, "Wait a minute,
1042
00:52:33,541 --> 00:52:37,241
"this is nothing more than
our Chinese stuntmen.
1043
00:52:37,284 --> 00:52:39,982
"We're the best kung fu
makers in the world.
1044
00:52:40,026 --> 00:52:43,464
"We put four of our
best stuntmen in suits
1045
00:52:43,508 --> 00:52:45,945
"and we shoot
this in Hong Kong,
1046
00:52:45,988 --> 00:52:48,208
"we can make
a movie like this!"
1047
00:52:48,252 --> 00:52:51,255
We talked about doing a live action movie
1048
00:52:51,298 --> 00:52:54,823
using animatronic Turtle figures.
1049
00:52:54,867 --> 00:52:57,652
I remember talking on the
telephone with Raymond Chow,
1050
00:52:57,696 --> 00:52:59,804
and he said, "What do you think
you could make the movie for?"
1051
00:52:59,828 --> 00:53:01,656
And I said, "I think
we can probably do it
1052
00:53:01,700 --> 00:53:03,441
"around two and a half,
three million
1053
00:53:03,484 --> 00:53:06,748
"if we do all of it in
Hong Kong at the studios."
1054
00:53:06,792 --> 00:53:09,403
The initial writer
they brought us,
1055
00:53:09,447 --> 00:53:11,536
Peter and I
completely freaked out.
1056
00:53:11,579 --> 00:53:13,379
Trying to figure out
how are we gonna get this
1057
00:53:13,407 --> 00:53:15,627
stereotypical
Hollywood kind of guy
1058
00:53:15,670 --> 00:53:18,891
to understand our
characters and the importance
1059
00:53:18,934 --> 00:53:20,806
because a lot of pressure
was on us now.
1060
00:53:20,849 --> 00:53:22,610
Fortunately, Golden Harvest
hired this director,
1061
00:53:22,634 --> 00:53:24,375
his name was Steve Barron.
1062
00:53:24,418 --> 00:53:28,292
I had seen a reel that he did
with Michael Jackson and a-ha,
1063
00:53:28,335 --> 00:53:29,704
and I knew he was
working rotoscopes
1064
00:53:29,728 --> 00:53:31,469
and all these
kind of techniques,
1065
00:53:31,512 --> 00:53:33,862
and I really liked
what he was about.
1066
00:53:33,906 --> 00:53:35,995
Golden Harvest
had had a script written
1067
00:53:36,038 --> 00:53:38,345
and they'd come away from
1068
00:53:38,389 --> 00:53:40,695
the original material,
which a lot of movies do.
1069
00:53:40,739 --> 00:53:42,175
They come away
from the book
1070
00:53:42,219 --> 00:53:44,873
and they think
because it's a film,
1071
00:53:44,917 --> 00:53:49,269
you've gotta come up with the
scenes that work in film, so called.
1072
00:53:49,313 --> 00:53:51,967
And I felt that a lot of these
scenes that were in the comic books,
1073
00:53:52,011 --> 00:53:55,057
the original few
book volumes
1074
00:53:55,101 --> 00:53:56,842
were great movie scenes.
1075
00:53:56,885 --> 00:53:59,888
We had discovered
a young writer
1076
00:53:59,932 --> 00:54:02,587
who was writing for Wonder
Years, called Todd Langen.
1077
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:05,633
So, I brought him in
and we actually sat in L.A.
1078
00:54:05,677 --> 00:54:08,984
at the Mondrian Hotel
for two months,
1079
00:54:09,028 --> 00:54:13,293
and we locked the door,
and I had all the comic books,
1080
00:54:13,337 --> 00:54:16,078
and I ripped out all the pages
that I just felt were movie scenes.
1081
00:54:19,821 --> 00:54:21,519
It was gonna take
six months to prepare
1082
00:54:22,737 --> 00:54:26,045
all of those uniforms,
the props,
1083
00:54:26,088 --> 00:54:29,266
everything ready to
shoot on time in July,
1084
00:54:29,309 --> 00:54:32,312
and I didn't have the money,
so I gambled.
1085
00:54:32,356 --> 00:54:35,315
I was emotionally committed,
but I didn't have the guts
1086
00:54:35,359 --> 00:54:38,405
to go back and say,
"I think this is not three,
1087
00:54:38,449 --> 00:54:41,539
"it's looking more
like seven or eight."
1088
00:54:44,498 --> 00:54:48,633
These are the original
1089
00:54:48,676 --> 00:54:52,419
ideas for that sewer, which actually...
1090
00:54:52,463 --> 00:54:56,684
When I finally talked
it over with the director
1091
00:54:56,728 --> 00:54:58,947
and producer,
they didn't change very much.
1092
00:55:00,775 --> 00:55:04,213
Well, texture gives you
atmosphere,
1093
00:55:04,257 --> 00:55:09,131
especially this disused pumping
station down in the sewers,
1094
00:55:09,175 --> 00:55:12,265
which was their home.
1095
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:17,009
And the very first sketch I
did of their home was this one.
1096
00:55:17,052 --> 00:55:20,404
They collect stuff
that comes down the tunnel,
1097
00:55:20,447 --> 00:55:24,799
they wander about finding
all kinds of interesting things.
1098
00:55:24,843 --> 00:55:27,802
So, it was
creating an environment,
1099
00:55:27,846 --> 00:55:29,761
because there was
a big battle in the sewer,
1100
00:55:29,804 --> 00:55:31,806
and they lived
in the sewer
1101
00:55:31,850 --> 00:55:34,940
and so much of the action
happened there.
1102
00:55:34,983 --> 00:55:39,466
We built all this out of fiberglass
to stand up to the stresses
1103
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:42,295
and had actual water
pumping through it.
1104
00:55:45,124 --> 00:55:47,344
We really lucked out on that first movie
1105
00:55:49,433 --> 00:55:51,260
for two main reasons,
1106
00:55:51,304 --> 00:55:54,089
Steve Barron, the director, and Jim Henson.
1107
00:55:54,133 --> 00:55:57,441
Steve Barron, very creative guy,
1108
00:55:57,484 --> 00:55:59,007
had a real good vision,
1109
00:55:59,051 --> 00:56:02,446
solid idea of what he wanted to do
1110
00:56:02,489 --> 00:56:05,753
within the fairly limited
budget he had to work with.
1111
00:56:05,797 --> 00:56:09,757
And Jim Henson, fantastic talent.
1112
00:56:09,801 --> 00:56:13,805
We really got lucky to be able
to get him to do the creatures,
1113
00:56:13,848 --> 00:56:14,980
and he nearly
didn't do it,
1114
00:56:15,023 --> 00:56:16,634
because he was really
not happy with,
1115
00:56:16,677 --> 00:56:20,159
early on,
the violence in it,
1116
00:56:20,202 --> 00:56:23,641
in relation to his Muppets
and his fan base.
1117
00:56:23,684 --> 00:56:27,122
It was something very risky
for him to put his name to.
1118
00:56:27,166 --> 00:56:31,257
He'd had not a lot of
contact with the film,
1119
00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:33,140
although he and Steve
Barron were good friends,
1120
00:56:34,303 --> 00:56:37,089
and obviously he and I were
father and son,
1121
00:56:37,132 --> 00:56:41,093
so he stayed in touch
with the film in a large way.
1122
00:56:41,136 --> 00:56:43,138
At one point,
he was concerned that
1123
00:56:43,182 --> 00:56:45,402
there wasn't enough money
to finish the film,
1124
00:56:45,445 --> 00:56:47,534
and I think he was trying
to help with that,
1125
00:56:47,578 --> 00:56:50,102
because it was
made on a very low budget.
1126
00:56:50,145 --> 00:56:51,886
I started having
second thoughts
1127
00:56:51,930 --> 00:56:53,627
about doing it as
a Hong Kong movie,
1128
00:56:53,671 --> 00:56:57,239
but I was somewhat afraid
to go back to Hong Kong
1129
00:56:57,283 --> 00:56:59,285
and tell them that
I needed more money.
1130
00:56:59,328 --> 00:57:00,939
Playmates were
telling me that
1131
00:57:00,982 --> 00:57:02,897
Christmas was gonna be
huge for the toys in '89,
1132
00:57:04,290 --> 00:57:07,032
and so I felt confident
that I'll sell the film.
1133
00:57:07,075 --> 00:57:09,295
I just took a risk,
I took a gamble.
1134
00:57:09,338 --> 00:57:12,907
And then I went to the
marketplace and I got killed!
1135
00:57:14,082 --> 00:57:16,433
Nobody wanted the movie.
1136
00:57:16,476 --> 00:57:19,479
At the same time we'd been
seeing all the design concepts
1137
00:57:19,523 --> 00:57:22,308
that Jim Henson's Creature
Shop had been doing in London.
1138
00:57:22,351 --> 00:57:25,833
Building, sculpting the heads
and the bodies of the costumes,
1139
00:57:25,877 --> 00:57:29,924
and sending us video tapes of
the tests of the people wearing them.
1140
00:57:29,968 --> 00:57:33,580
There was also a thing where
we needed to test quite a lot of
1141
00:57:34,886 --> 00:57:38,977
stages of the
Turtles in London.
1142
00:57:39,020 --> 00:57:41,980
So, we thought we'd get
one guy from London,
1143
00:57:42,023 --> 00:57:45,636
and so we could constantly
use him to test the first prototype.
1144
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:47,768
So, I had maybe
180 grand in cash
1145
00:57:49,509 --> 00:57:51,337
and I got
an $8 million budget,
1146
00:57:51,380 --> 00:57:53,252
pay or play with Henson.
1147
00:57:53,295 --> 00:57:55,384
And the deal that
I thought I had
1148
00:57:55,428 --> 00:57:56,536
that would have
saved all of this
1149
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,213
has just died.
1150
00:57:58,257 --> 00:58:00,128
I said, "Raymond,
I need $6 million."
1151
00:58:01,826 --> 00:58:04,742
He said, "Tom,
we don't have $6 million!"
1152
00:58:04,785 --> 00:58:07,484
"I don't know if we'll make
money, but I'm so convinced
1153
00:58:08,876 --> 00:58:11,183
"that if you give me
the money, we'll open
1154
00:58:11,226 --> 00:58:12,619
"and we'll get
our investment back.
1155
00:58:12,663 --> 00:58:14,055
"At least that."
1156
00:58:14,099 --> 00:58:17,058
And it was a pause
and he said, "Okay,
1157
00:58:18,886 --> 00:58:20,540
"I'll go find it."
1158
00:58:20,584 --> 00:58:22,499
Okay, so now what?
1159
00:58:23,456 --> 00:58:25,893
Now what? Now what?
1160
00:58:25,937 --> 00:58:28,374
The first thing was
1161
00:58:28,417 --> 00:58:31,595
we needed the main,
the principal Turtles
1162
00:58:31,638 --> 00:58:35,990
and the characters to be cast
who were gonna be inside the suits.
1163
00:58:36,034 --> 00:58:39,907
So, I went and I did what I call
my Full Tilt Bozo performance.
1164
00:58:39,951 --> 00:58:42,823
Spinning around and jumping
around and doing my lines.
1165
00:58:42,867 --> 00:58:44,758
And then I finished with a big
flourish and a roundhouse kick
1166
00:58:44,782 --> 00:58:46,102
and put my foot through the wall.
1167
00:58:46,958 --> 00:58:49,874
So, there I was with
my foot stuck in the wall,
1168
00:58:49,917 --> 00:58:52,006
and thank God he laughed
1169
00:58:52,050 --> 00:58:54,550
and he said, "Anyone who would put
that much energy into the performance
1170
00:58:54,574 --> 00:58:56,141
"deserves to be one of my Turtles."
1171
00:58:56,184 --> 00:58:58,056
And he asked me to be Michelangelo.
1172
00:58:58,099 --> 00:59:01,363
It was a very sweet,
lovely script and silly,
1173
00:59:01,407 --> 00:59:03,540
and I'm silly,
1174
00:59:03,583 --> 00:59:06,412
and working with turtles, like, why not?
1175
00:59:06,455 --> 00:59:09,502
Seemed like a good
idea and I was up for it.
1176
00:59:09,546 --> 00:59:13,288
And anything that's got Jim
Henson's name attached to it.
1177
00:59:14,855 --> 00:59:17,292
Went in, I actually met Steve Barron,
1178
00:59:17,336 --> 00:59:19,904
the director,
the first audition
1179
00:59:19,947 --> 00:59:22,123
and, from what I remember,
maybe the only audition.
1180
00:59:22,167 --> 00:59:23,951
It was one of
the easiest experiences.
1181
00:59:23,995 --> 00:59:26,345
And we just
talked about punk rock
1182
00:59:26,388 --> 00:59:29,870
and the Sex Pistols and
things like that, and I got it.
1183
00:59:29,914 --> 00:59:33,744
And I got to wear Sid Vicious
T-shirts throughout the whole thing,
1184
00:59:33,787 --> 00:59:35,702
so I was really
into that at that time.
1185
00:59:35,746 --> 00:59:37,530
Thirty-six,
take seven.
1186
00:59:37,574 --> 00:59:40,098
Ready, and action!
1187
00:59:40,141 --> 00:59:42,056
We were
awesome, bros!
1188
00:59:42,100 --> 00:59:44,319
So, I was the
puppeteer captain,
1189
00:59:44,363 --> 00:59:48,976
and then once the film
started shooting...
1190
00:59:49,020 --> 00:59:50,761
So, I had to find
the performers
1191
00:59:50,804 --> 00:59:53,807
and develop the hand
controls with everybody,
1192
00:59:53,851 --> 00:59:57,115
and then once
the film started shooting,
1193
00:59:57,158 --> 01:00:00,074
I handed that function
over to Kevin Clash.
1194
01:00:00,118 --> 01:00:02,642
I had
another role withNinja
1195
01:00:02,686 --> 01:00:05,253
where I was kind of the
puppet captain for the movie.
1196
01:00:05,297 --> 01:00:10,215
So, I was the one who had to
go to Steve and say, "Listen,
1197
01:00:10,258 --> 01:00:12,609
"Raphael's not gonna
work, his head is not working,
1198
01:00:14,654 --> 01:00:17,483
"and we have no idea when
it's gonna be up and running."
1199
01:00:17,526 --> 01:00:19,877
And they would
lose their mind.
1200
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,401
With Steve Barron, who
started talking to me about
1201
01:00:22,444 --> 01:00:24,098
how we could
do these Turtles,
1202
01:00:25,796 --> 01:00:28,276
it was really important
to him that, if possible,
1203
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,670
there was no wires
going to the characters,
1204
01:00:30,714 --> 01:00:33,064
no cables going
to the characters.
1205
01:00:33,107 --> 01:00:35,632
I even remember
we had a test sheet
1206
01:00:35,675 --> 01:00:39,244
that showed the character had to
be able to do a forward handspring
1207
01:00:39,287 --> 01:00:42,464
then a flip and then drop
through a manhole cover,
1208
01:00:42,508 --> 01:00:44,684
was what his litmus was.
1209
01:00:44,728 --> 01:00:46,773
He wanted it to be
able to do that move
1210
01:00:46,817 --> 01:00:48,819
and still also be
an animated character.
1211
01:00:48,862 --> 01:00:51,691
They were seriously
challenged in those suits.
1212
01:00:51,735 --> 01:00:55,173
There were times where
1213
01:00:55,216 --> 01:00:58,176
you would have to rip a head
off and give them some oxygen.
1214
01:00:58,219 --> 01:01:01,353
I really felt like,
"I better do my job fast
1215
01:01:01,396 --> 01:01:04,225
"because this guy's gotta
get that suit off now!"
1216
01:01:04,269 --> 01:01:06,575
I remember Leif getting
sick inside one of the heads,
1217
01:01:06,619 --> 01:01:08,099
which was very interesting.
1218
01:01:08,142 --> 01:01:10,182
It was like, "I'm gonna
be..." And it was too late.
1219
01:01:11,755 --> 01:01:14,148
The whole rig
weighed about 70 pounds.
1220
01:01:14,192 --> 01:01:16,847
So, between that and the
fact that we were suddenly
1221
01:01:16,890 --> 01:01:19,173
thrown into the midst of these
things where you could only see out of
1222
01:01:19,197 --> 01:01:21,808
two little tiny holes in
the front of the head,
1223
01:01:21,852 --> 01:01:23,157
it got a little hairy at times.
1224
01:01:23,201 --> 01:01:25,507
It was very difficult
to get out of their suits.
1225
01:01:25,551 --> 01:01:28,249
They had... All of
the cables and everything
1226
01:01:28,293 --> 01:01:30,425
went down the back of their necks.
1227
01:01:30,469 --> 01:01:32,471
So, they would be
able to take the head off,
1228
01:01:32,514 --> 01:01:33,970
but they couldn't
take it totally off,
1229
01:01:33,994 --> 01:01:35,537
they would have to
put it off to the side.
1230
01:01:35,561 --> 01:01:37,781
And all of the servos
and all the mechanisms
1231
01:01:37,824 --> 01:01:39,739
were actually inside
of the back of the shell.
1232
01:01:39,783 --> 01:01:42,394
Then we built
these wooden horses
1233
01:01:42,437 --> 01:01:45,092
that we'd put
around the set.
1234
01:01:45,136 --> 01:01:49,096
So that the best way to rest
this 65 pounds on your back
1235
01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:52,360
was to lean forward in a certain
position, which they sort of...
1236
01:01:54,058 --> 01:01:56,625
They found that position,
built these wooden horses
1237
01:01:56,669 --> 01:01:58,932
and so they'd sit
on them on the set.
1238
01:01:58,976 --> 01:02:03,850
So, 11:00 at night in
South Carolina somewhere,
1239
01:02:03,894 --> 01:02:07,593
and these four turtles would
be dead on these horses
1240
01:02:07,636 --> 01:02:08,812
in the middle
of the fields,
1241
01:02:08,855 --> 01:02:11,771
and it was
a very eerie image.
1242
01:02:11,815 --> 01:02:14,905
Any times that there were
any kind of animatronics
1243
01:02:14,948 --> 01:02:17,821
where there was any
dialogue going on,
1244
01:02:17,864 --> 01:02:20,780
you'd have the hero suits,
1245
01:02:20,824 --> 01:02:22,913
and they would be
doing their thing.
1246
01:02:22,956 --> 01:02:25,654
And then anytime that there
was any kind of fight sequence,
1247
01:02:25,698 --> 01:02:27,091
then that's when
we would step in.
1248
01:02:28,745 --> 01:02:31,008
Initially,
nobody was sure
1249
01:02:31,051 --> 01:02:33,097
what the second unit
was gonna shoot.
1250
01:02:33,140 --> 01:02:36,100
Steve thought he wanted to
just give me some sequences,
1251
01:02:36,143 --> 01:02:37,754
like flashback sequences,
1252
01:02:37,797 --> 01:02:39,799
to just let me shoot
and have fun with.
1253
01:02:39,843 --> 01:02:43,585
Then he found he had
to shoot the drama,
1254
01:02:43,629 --> 01:02:48,286
and couldn't shoot the fights
often, to stay on schedule.
1255
01:02:48,329 --> 01:02:50,046
So then I had to start
shooting fight sequences,
1256
01:02:50,070 --> 01:02:52,246
which was
a lot of fun for me,
1257
01:02:52,290 --> 01:02:54,379
which was not at all what
I was expecting going in.
1258
01:02:54,422 --> 01:02:56,163
Although I had
been involved
1259
01:02:56,207 --> 01:02:58,185
with the creation of the
characters right from the beginning
1260
01:02:58,209 --> 01:03:00,080
and knew they had
to be able to fight.
1261
01:03:00,124 --> 01:03:02,256
So I had been
working with stuntmen
1262
01:03:02,300 --> 01:03:04,104
all the way through the
preparation of the film.
1263
01:03:04,128 --> 01:03:07,566
Normal film speed
is 24 frames a second,
1264
01:03:07,609 --> 01:03:10,656
and the Turtles were
cumbersome and a bit slow,
1265
01:03:10,699 --> 01:03:13,877
and I wanted to have them
1266
01:03:15,487 --> 01:03:17,968
believably able to
use those muscles.
1267
01:03:18,011 --> 01:03:20,318
So, we shot a lot of it
at 23 frames per second,
1268
01:03:20,361 --> 01:03:21,667
even the dialogue stuff,
1269
01:03:21,710 --> 01:03:23,103
which was
kind of unusual.
1270
01:03:23,147 --> 01:03:25,279
I don't think it had
been done before.
1271
01:03:25,323 --> 01:03:28,282
And that would just... Only
one twenty-fourth of a second,
1272
01:03:28,326 --> 01:03:30,521
but it would just sharpen
up their movements a little bit.
1273
01:03:30,545 --> 01:03:32,286
So, when you'd
see them on set,
1274
01:03:32,330 --> 01:03:34,611
they'd be a tiny bit slower
than when we got them on film.
1275
01:03:36,073 --> 01:03:38,553
And then we'd use 22
and 23 for the ninja fights,
1276
01:03:38,597 --> 01:03:41,121
which is very common
in Hong Kong, anyway.
1277
01:03:41,165 --> 01:03:42,949
I tell you, the technology was a challenge.
1278
01:03:44,646 --> 01:03:46,605
When you talk to some of the puppeteers
1279
01:03:46,648 --> 01:03:48,929
who actually had to program
those heads of those Turtles,
1280
01:03:51,088 --> 01:03:54,221
they would program all of
these different expressions
1281
01:03:54,265 --> 01:03:56,920
and different things they
would want the Turtles to do,
1282
01:03:56,963 --> 01:03:59,183
and the next morning,
everything would have crashed
1283
01:03:59,226 --> 01:04:00,943
and they would have
to start all over again.
1284
01:04:00,967 --> 01:04:02,447
It was very frustrating,
1285
01:04:02,490 --> 01:04:04,492
because it was very primitive at the time.
1286
01:04:04,536 --> 01:04:07,104
We were shooting very close
to the Wilmington airport,
1287
01:04:07,147 --> 01:04:08,975
and every time
the guys set up for a shot,
1288
01:04:09,019 --> 01:04:10,455
the Turtles wouldn't react
1289
01:04:10,498 --> 01:04:12,085
or they would react
when we're not ready,
1290
01:04:12,109 --> 01:04:13,893
and we suddenly
figured out
1291
01:04:13,937 --> 01:04:15,677
that the interference
from the radar...
1292
01:04:17,462 --> 01:04:20,247
We had to go on
a military frequency
1293
01:04:20,291 --> 01:04:21,596
because
the commercial frequency
1294
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:23,337
was too close to
our own frequency
1295
01:04:23,381 --> 01:04:25,774
for the radio waves.
1296
01:04:25,818 --> 01:04:28,255
We had to figure out
all these things going on.
1297
01:04:28,299 --> 01:04:31,563
We used to have something we
called Major Turtle Breakdown, MTB.
1298
01:04:31,606 --> 01:04:33,521
Sometimes you'd see a Turtle,
1299
01:04:33,565 --> 01:04:35,610
suddenly a jaw
would drop
1300
01:04:35,654 --> 01:04:37,830
or an eyeball would go
off in a weird direction,
1301
01:04:37,874 --> 01:04:39,179
and something would happen,
1302
01:04:39,223 --> 01:04:40,877
so you wouldn't have them there.
1303
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,967
So, I got used to
working with, if necessary,
1304
01:04:44,010 --> 01:04:46,752
a paper plate on
a C-stand or nobody.
1305
01:04:46,795 --> 01:04:48,058
Where's Raphael?
1306
01:04:50,321 --> 01:04:52,627
Hmm? MAN: Cut it.
1307
01:04:52,671 --> 01:04:55,369
Then they would always
say, "Okay, we'll shoot the rat."
1308
01:04:55,413 --> 01:04:56,849
Because the rat was hardwired,
1309
01:04:56,893 --> 01:04:58,764
it wasn't fully radio-controlled.
1310
01:05:00,548 --> 01:05:02,724
Um, I'd like to do
that again, if I could.
1311
01:05:04,335 --> 01:05:07,642
The truth is Splinter took
a close-up much easier
1312
01:05:07,686 --> 01:05:11,081
because we weren't trying to
hide a person inside of Splinter.
1313
01:05:11,124 --> 01:05:13,083
Splinter was
a hand puppet,
1314
01:05:13,126 --> 01:05:15,086
so all the interior of
the mouth was really there.
1315
01:05:15,128 --> 01:05:18,392
The Turtles were tough
because the actors inside
1316
01:05:18,436 --> 01:05:23,180
were looking through
holes in the actual head.
1317
01:05:23,223 --> 01:05:26,792
If the mouth was open, they could
see a little bit through the mouth,
1318
01:05:26,835 --> 01:05:29,229
but the truth is if you
put a lot of lights on,
1319
01:05:29,273 --> 01:05:31,101
the camera would be
able to see right inside
1320
01:05:31,144 --> 01:05:34,060
and see that there was
a person in there.
1321
01:05:34,104 --> 01:05:36,149
When I was a kid, I
watched very dark fairy tales
1322
01:05:36,193 --> 01:05:39,457
and read dark
Grimm's Tales,
1323
01:05:39,500 --> 01:05:44,027
and even though you'd
find them a bit spooky,
1324
01:05:44,070 --> 01:05:48,553
that was the most exciting
thing and engaging stuff.
1325
01:05:48,596 --> 01:05:51,512
That was a controversial
decision, to say the least,
1326
01:05:51,556 --> 01:05:54,167
in the making of the film.
1327
01:05:54,211 --> 01:05:57,257
I think there was a lot of
concern from the studio
1328
01:05:58,432 --> 01:06:00,913
about how dark
the film was.
1329
01:06:01,696 --> 01:06:02,871
Steve had
1330
01:06:05,396 --> 01:06:07,354
unbelievable vision for this movie,
1331
01:06:07,398 --> 01:06:10,096
I mean, unbelievable.
1332
01:06:10,140 --> 01:06:13,012
He really didn't want anybody
to really "see them" see them.
1333
01:06:14,796 --> 01:06:16,796
That was a whole thing
at the beginning, as far as
1334
01:06:18,626 --> 01:06:21,978
not letting the audience,
but teasing the audience.
1335
01:06:22,021 --> 01:06:23,980
He really made you
feel like you were
1336
01:06:24,023 --> 01:06:25,633
in a sewer with
these four turtles.
1337
01:06:32,205 --> 01:06:34,294
You all right, ma'am?
APRIL: Yeah, I'm fine.
1338
01:06:34,338 --> 01:06:36,905
In hindsight, I know that
was the right decision,
1339
01:06:36,949 --> 01:06:40,126
that Steve thought, "I'm
gonna keep the film moody
1340
01:06:40,170 --> 01:06:42,781
"and contrasty and dark,
1341
01:06:42,824 --> 01:06:44,522
"and that's gonna
help me to allow
1342
01:06:44,565 --> 01:06:46,611
"the cameras to get
a little bit closer."
1343
01:06:46,654 --> 01:06:49,570
I felt, "Let's just
really try
1344
01:06:49,614 --> 01:06:51,070
"and get into these eyes
of these creatures."
1345
01:06:51,094 --> 01:06:52,617
Even though
they weren't real,
1346
01:06:52,660 --> 01:06:54,880
and even though everybody
was worried about that.
1347
01:06:54,923 --> 01:06:57,448
There's a big scene
with Splinter and Raphael,
1348
01:06:57,491 --> 01:06:59,624
and it moves from
one to the other,
1349
01:06:59,667 --> 01:07:02,105
and nobody had been
that close to an animatronic
1350
01:07:02,148 --> 01:07:04,324
in animatronic history,
I don't think.
1351
01:07:06,022 --> 01:07:08,328
I am here.
1352
01:07:09,721 --> 01:07:11,331
My son.
1353
01:07:11,375 --> 01:07:16,510
The darkness gave the film
a gritty credibility
1354
01:07:16,554 --> 01:07:19,513
that I think is the difference
between it making $20 million
1355
01:07:19,557 --> 01:07:22,168
and it making way
over $100 million,
1356
01:07:22,212 --> 01:07:24,083
and in the end, God knows,
$500 million.
1357
01:07:24,127 --> 01:07:26,390
It was fortunate that,
1358
01:07:26,433 --> 01:07:29,132
I think most of the
guys at the studio here,
1359
01:07:29,175 --> 01:07:31,917
Jim Lawson, Steve Lavigne,
and Ryan Brown,
1360
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,224
Mike Dooney, Eric Talbot,
1361
01:07:34,267 --> 01:07:36,052
were all able to
go down to the set,
1362
01:07:36,095 --> 01:07:38,054
because it was
in North Carolina
1363
01:07:38,097 --> 01:07:39,925
at the old Carolco studios.
1364
01:07:42,667 --> 01:07:45,452
And we were all able to
walk around on their backlot,
1365
01:07:45,496 --> 01:07:47,802
where most of the
street scenes were filmed.
1366
01:07:47,846 --> 01:07:50,109
It was a trip.
1367
01:07:50,153 --> 01:07:53,199
I don't think any of us had
ever been on a movie set before.
1368
01:07:53,243 --> 01:07:56,898
There, 20 yards away,
20 feet away,
1369
01:07:56,942 --> 01:07:59,205
was some of the Turtles
in full costume,
1370
01:07:59,249 --> 01:08:01,294
in the stunt costumes,
1371
01:08:01,338 --> 01:08:03,142
playing around, one was
playing around with a Mexican hat.
1372
01:08:03,166 --> 01:08:06,386
And it really... You
froze dead in your tracks
1373
01:08:06,430 --> 01:08:09,737
because it was night,
it was live,
1374
01:08:09,781 --> 01:08:12,479
and it was a real Ninja
Turtle, you believed.
1375
01:08:12,523 --> 01:08:14,963
It's like, "There they are and
they're alive and they're real.
1376
01:08:16,918 --> 01:08:19,114
"This is amazing. This is
amazing on every possible level."
1377
01:08:19,138 --> 01:08:21,749
It was virtually stunning.
1378
01:08:25,710 --> 01:08:28,147
It's a very
exciting moment in history.
1379
01:08:28,191 --> 01:08:29,511
Hopefully
history's in the making.
1380
01:08:31,977 --> 01:08:33,413
All right,
show them the production.
1381
01:08:39,593 --> 01:08:42,988
It's like they reached into
my brain and Kevin's brain
1382
01:08:43,031 --> 01:08:45,271
and pulled out what we felt
these Turtles should look like,
1383
01:08:45,295 --> 01:08:46,905
and then they did it.
1384
01:08:46,948 --> 01:08:49,951
In foam, latex
and acrylic paint
1385
01:08:49,995 --> 01:08:51,127
and bits of leather.
1386
01:08:52,563 --> 01:08:54,565
They just did it.
1387
01:08:54,608 --> 01:08:57,524
Steve Barron, I think, just
because he wanted to be nice
1388
01:08:57,568 --> 01:08:59,831
or maybe he thought we
would be great in the parts,
1389
01:09:01,702 --> 01:09:05,097
asked Kevin and me
if we would like to be
1390
01:09:05,141 --> 01:09:07,926
in the background of a scene
as garbage men.
1391
01:09:07,969 --> 01:09:10,885
And I'm not really comfortable
with doing those kinds of things,
1392
01:09:10,929 --> 01:09:12,626
so I said,
"Thanks, but no."
1393
01:09:12,670 --> 01:09:14,367
But Kevin was up for it.
1394
01:09:14,411 --> 01:09:16,848
I seem to recall
that at a certain point,
1395
01:09:16,891 --> 01:09:20,199
you can kind of see
this blurry dark shape
1396
01:09:20,243 --> 01:09:22,854
moving across the screen
behind one of the Turtles
1397
01:09:22,897 --> 01:09:24,857
way off in the distance,
and I think that's Kevin.
1398
01:09:30,514 --> 01:09:33,604
When you see
a film being shot,
1399
01:09:33,647 --> 01:09:35,954
you only see
little snippets,
1400
01:09:35,997 --> 01:09:39,131
you see some dailies,
just short segments,
1401
01:09:39,175 --> 01:09:42,352
you don't see the vision of the
filmmaker put together on film,
1402
01:09:42,395 --> 01:09:44,180
so it's very,
very hard to judge.
1403
01:09:44,223 --> 01:09:46,965
Now the film is together
1404
01:09:47,008 --> 01:09:50,098
and Tom Gray calls me and
says, "I want to show you the film."
1405
01:09:50,142 --> 01:09:54,233
It was Tom Gray, it was
myself, Mark Freedman,
1406
01:09:54,277 --> 01:09:56,714
Peter Laird, Kevin Eastman,
1407
01:09:56,757 --> 01:09:59,499
there may have been one or two
other people from Mirage Studios,
1408
01:09:59,543 --> 01:10:01,632
and we're in a theater without children,
1409
01:10:01,675 --> 01:10:04,330
and we see the film
with no audience reaction,
1410
01:10:06,027 --> 01:10:09,248
and we start to shake, we get scared.
1411
01:10:09,292 --> 01:10:12,425
We're not sure if we like it,
we're not sure if it's good,
1412
01:10:12,469 --> 01:10:14,906
we start doubting ourselves,
we start thinking about it,
1413
01:10:14,949 --> 01:10:16,473
second guessing, you name it.
1414
01:10:17,691 --> 01:10:18,691
We're scared.
1415
01:10:32,358 --> 01:10:34,273
People were cheering
this trailer.
1416
01:10:34,317 --> 01:10:38,625
And these weren't
necessarily little kids as well.
1417
01:10:38,669 --> 01:10:41,411
They were just people who
thought this looked great.
1418
01:10:46,067 --> 01:10:47,547
We get to the movie theater
1419
01:10:47,591 --> 01:10:50,202
about 45 minutes before the first showing
1420
01:10:50,246 --> 01:10:53,510
on a Friday night in March of 1990,
1421
01:10:54,467 --> 01:10:56,339
and we're first on line,
1422
01:10:56,382 --> 01:10:59,472
I looked behind me and I don't see anybody.
1423
01:10:59,516 --> 01:11:01,213
I said, "Well,
isn't that special?"
1424
01:11:01,257 --> 01:11:03,955
And within 15 minutes,
1425
01:11:03,998 --> 01:11:07,088
people show up
and the line grows
1426
01:11:07,132 --> 01:11:09,265
out the movie theater,
around the block.
1427
01:11:12,311 --> 01:11:13,573
Ya!
1428
01:11:13,617 --> 01:11:16,228
I love being a turtle!
1429
01:11:16,272 --> 01:11:18,491
When the credits rolled
1430
01:11:18,535 --> 01:11:23,975
and the audience erupted
in applause and cheers,
1431
01:11:24,018 --> 01:11:27,239
I think I grabbed onto
my wife Renee and I said,
1432
01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:30,416
"I'm not sure what this
is, but it sure feels good."
1433
01:11:30,460 --> 01:11:33,854
We opened at 25 million,
or 26 million.
1434
01:11:34,855 --> 01:11:36,770
Broke all single records,
1435
01:11:36,814 --> 01:11:38,598
non-holiday playing time,
1436
01:11:38,642 --> 01:11:40,687
in the history
of the business.
1437
01:11:40,731 --> 01:11:43,342
That Monday morning after
we opened on the record week,
1438
01:11:43,386 --> 01:11:47,564
every single studio guy
that had seen the film
1439
01:11:47,607 --> 01:11:51,132
and passed on it in the
year and a half prior to that
1440
01:11:51,176 --> 01:11:55,441
called me, all wishing me
congratulations, everything.
1441
01:11:55,485 --> 01:11:59,053
"I wish we had seen it.
God, how did you know?"
1442
01:11:59,097 --> 01:12:02,274
All that and, "Oh, by the
way, can we have the sequel?"
1443
01:12:02,318 --> 01:12:04,363
And I said, "Fellas,
1444
01:12:04,407 --> 01:12:06,583
"the sequel stays
with the believers
1445
01:12:06,626 --> 01:12:07,746
"and that's
New Line Cinema."
1446
01:12:09,150 --> 01:12:11,849
Cowabunga!
1447
01:12:13,111 --> 01:12:16,593
I went out to dinner with Jim after that
1448
01:12:16,636 --> 01:12:19,509
and we drove past a movie theater,
1449
01:12:19,552 --> 01:12:24,644
and there were lines of
kids with the whole outfits on.
1450
01:12:24,688 --> 01:12:27,865
And we actually saw
one of the ushers come out,
1451
01:12:27,908 --> 01:12:30,868
and at a certain point
he had to tell them
1452
01:12:30,911 --> 01:12:32,957
that they weren't
gonna get in.
1453
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,221
And, man, we saw the emotion
that happened down that line.
1454
01:12:36,264 --> 01:12:38,310
Jim and I watched it
1455
01:12:38,354 --> 01:12:42,096
and he said, "Wow, this
movie's a big, big hit."
1456
01:12:42,140 --> 01:12:46,492
So, yeah, that was the
last film that he was on.
1457
01:12:46,536 --> 01:12:48,929
I was glad that he
was around to see
1458
01:12:48,973 --> 01:12:50,670
the success of
Ninja Turtles also.
1459
01:12:54,848 --> 01:12:58,504
From my point of view,
it's very humbling
1460
01:13:00,071 --> 01:13:02,639
that people would,
after all these 20 years,
1461
01:13:02,682 --> 01:13:06,860
that they would still be into
something that we helped create.
1462
01:13:06,904 --> 01:13:10,211
All the hard work, all of
the people that said no,
1463
01:13:12,562 --> 01:13:16,392
it just went out the door.
We did it, we made it.
1464
01:13:16,435 --> 01:13:18,394
Coolest part is that
on camera they worked,
1465
01:13:18,437 --> 01:13:21,179
you believed
they were real.
1466
01:13:21,222 --> 01:13:23,355
I cannot sit here
and honestly say
1467
01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:25,357
there is anything
I would change
1468
01:13:25,401 --> 01:13:26,601
about them to
make them better.
1469
01:13:40,851 --> 01:13:43,506
I remember watching that
movie kind of religiously,
1470
01:13:43,549 --> 01:13:46,900
almost every day.
The first one, anyways.
1471
01:13:50,164 --> 01:13:52,645
Going to bed or
before I went to bed,
1472
01:13:52,689 --> 01:13:54,928
it wouldn't feel right if I didn't
watch that movie at the time.
1473
01:13:54,952 --> 01:13:56,997
I don't know
what that was,
1474
01:13:57,041 --> 01:13:58,497
but it definitely had
an impact on me.
1475
01:13:58,521 --> 01:14:00,000
I do remember the feeling of
1476
01:14:00,044 --> 01:14:02,084
the first time I heard the
theme song, which was...
1477
01:14:03,874 --> 01:14:06,311
At that moment, I just
kind of instantly knew
1478
01:14:06,354 --> 01:14:08,574
that it was gonna be a lifetime investment.
1479
01:14:08,618 --> 01:14:10,489
The great thing about
the Turtles was that
1480
01:14:10,533 --> 01:14:14,014
they were so unbelievably
huge when I was growing up
1481
01:14:14,058 --> 01:14:15,973
that you had to
be a Turtle fan.
1482
01:14:16,016 --> 01:14:18,454
There was the Thundercats and He-Man toys,
1483
01:14:18,497 --> 01:14:20,717
but then there's this one
green toy that stood out,
1484
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,894
this one toy that was so different.
1485
01:14:23,937 --> 01:14:26,897
I remember just even
the typography of it,
1486
01:14:26,940 --> 01:14:29,484
the fact that it was made from
the shells was always really cool.
1487
01:14:29,508 --> 01:14:32,468
I was really into toys like
He-Man and all that stuff.
1488
01:14:34,121 --> 01:14:35,185
I saw these toys
and I was like,
1489
01:14:35,209 --> 01:14:36,646
"What is this?
I don't get it."
1490
01:14:36,689 --> 01:14:38,822
You know, "Do they like
pizza or something?"
1491
01:14:38,865 --> 01:14:40,519
It just didn't make
any sense or whatever.
1492
01:14:40,563 --> 01:14:41,912
So, I got Donatello
1493
01:14:41,955 --> 01:14:45,045
not really knowing the
context of what it was,
1494
01:14:45,089 --> 01:14:47,178
of what he belonged to
or whatever.
1495
01:14:47,221 --> 01:14:49,528
And then other kids
in school
1496
01:14:49,572 --> 01:14:51,138
would be like,
"Oh, you have Donatello!"
1497
01:14:51,182 --> 01:14:53,706
And they have Leo or
somebody and they go together.
1498
01:14:53,750 --> 01:14:55,578
If I were to be
a world leader,
1499
01:14:55,621 --> 01:14:57,405
then I would
definitely have to say
1500
01:14:57,449 --> 01:14:59,625
that being a kid and
growing up with Ninja Turtles
1501
01:14:59,669 --> 01:15:01,801
definitely affected the
way I view the world.
1502
01:15:03,803 --> 01:15:05,370
We would have
a bunch of discussions
1503
01:15:05,413 --> 01:15:07,981
with our agent, Mark
Freedman, of longevity,
1504
01:15:08,025 --> 01:15:11,245
and he always said, "Look,
kids, it's gonna be intro year,
1505
01:15:11,289 --> 01:15:13,378
"the banner year, and then
the discount bin year.
1506
01:15:13,421 --> 01:15:16,076
"Three years tops for
any successful toy item
1507
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:17,991
"and then you're
done and gone."
1508
01:15:18,035 --> 01:15:20,211
Usually if a toy line,
especially action figures,
1509
01:15:20,254 --> 01:15:23,301
if they can last three years,
that's fantastic.
1510
01:15:23,344 --> 01:15:26,522
A three year life cycle is
really good for this industry.
1511
01:15:26,565 --> 01:15:28,848
The percentages of a successful
product are probably one in 10,
1512
01:15:28,872 --> 01:15:30,047
so it's very low.
1513
01:15:41,754 --> 01:15:43,394
Without a doubt,
Turtles affected my life.
1514
01:15:44,322 --> 01:15:45,682
I was obsessed with Ninja Turtles!
1515
01:15:47,151 --> 01:15:48,345
Everybody wanted
to be the Turtles.
1516
01:15:48,369 --> 01:15:50,633
Everybody was
either Mikey, Leo,
1517
01:15:50,676 --> 01:15:54,201
the geek, Donnie, or the
badass wannabe, Raphael.
1518
01:15:54,245 --> 01:15:56,987
Somebody could set a Barbie
doll in front of me and a Ninja Turtle,
1519
01:15:57,030 --> 01:15:58,573
and I was just drawn
to the Ninja Turtle.
1520
01:15:58,597 --> 01:16:00,207
I think it was the action.
1521
01:16:00,251 --> 01:16:02,775
You see something, especially in a group,
1522
01:16:02,819 --> 01:16:05,952
you just can't help but to
just be like, "Oh, my God,
1523
01:16:05,996 --> 01:16:07,626
"I want to be this one,
I want to be that one!"
1524
01:16:07,650 --> 01:16:09,347
It was just real to me.
1525
01:16:09,390 --> 01:16:12,916
I don't know anybody my age
who wasn't crazy about the Turtles.
1526
01:16:12,959 --> 01:16:16,397
Every school had almost every
class filled with Ninja Turtle fans.
1527
01:16:16,441 --> 01:16:17,573
I like Michelangelo.
1528
01:16:17,616 --> 01:16:18,791
Leonardo.
1529
01:16:18,835 --> 01:16:19,966
Raphael.
1530
01:16:20,010 --> 01:16:20,967
Donatello.
1531
01:16:21,011 --> 01:16:22,969
Mikey.
1532
01:16:23,013 --> 01:16:24,817
I remember walking
downstairs Christmas morning
1533
01:16:24,841 --> 01:16:26,451
and I got Leonardo.
1534
01:16:26,494 --> 01:16:28,414
It's really like everything
that kids would want.
1535
01:16:28,540 --> 01:16:30,368
And I like the Turtles,
1536
01:16:30,411 --> 01:16:33,806
but the most best
is Splinter.
1537
01:16:33,850 --> 01:16:36,156
So, I made this Turtle
Van out of a shoe box,
1538
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:38,028
and that shoe box
came with me everywhere.
1539
01:16:38,071 --> 01:16:40,639
Around that time,
it was my life.
1540
01:16:40,683 --> 01:16:45,209
They at one point had Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles Valentine's Day valentines.
1541
01:16:45,252 --> 01:16:47,472
Come on,
that's a no-brainer.
1542
01:16:47,515 --> 01:16:49,735
I gave you the
"Cowabunga, dude" one.
1543
01:16:49,779 --> 01:16:52,216
But it pretty much
took over the world.
1544
01:16:52,259 --> 01:16:55,523
And I think a lot of kids
who grew up with it
1545
01:16:55,567 --> 01:16:57,787
know exactly what
I'm talking about.
1546
01:16:57,830 --> 01:17:00,354
Now we're becoming
successful in Canada,
1547
01:17:00,398 --> 01:17:02,487
now we're becoming
successful in Mexico,
1548
01:17:02,530 --> 01:17:05,795
now it's theTortues Ninjas
in France.
1549
01:17:10,495 --> 01:17:12,062
And then we're doing...
1550
01:17:12,105 --> 01:17:13,716
The name has
to be changed to.
1551
01:17:13,759 --> 01:17:16,849
"Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles"
in the UK
1552
01:17:16,893 --> 01:17:18,677
because they've
outlawed "Ninja."
1553
01:17:18,721 --> 01:17:19,801
It's still
successful there.
1554
01:17:27,294 --> 01:17:31,647
Rock, dudes!
We did it, we won!
1555
01:17:31,690 --> 01:17:33,170
It was kind of
thrown out that,
1556
01:17:33,213 --> 01:17:35,607
"If you guys want to try
to come up with some ideas,
1557
01:17:35,651 --> 01:17:37,522
"you can send
them to Playmates,
1558
01:17:37,565 --> 01:17:40,699
"and if they get used,
that's cool."
1559
01:17:40,743 --> 01:17:43,920
Probably the toy I'm most
famous known for is Rat King.
1560
01:17:43,963 --> 01:17:47,271
They took Leatherhead, Ray
Fillet, the cockroach, Scumbug,
1561
01:17:47,314 --> 01:17:49,273
Wyrm, Mondo Gecko,
1562
01:17:49,316 --> 01:17:52,319
toy Antrax was created by
Mike Dooney and Dan Berger,
1563
01:17:52,363 --> 01:17:54,757
and then the Canadian
Royal Mounted Police Moose,
1564
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:56,933
and that's the one
they picked, obviously,
1565
01:17:56,976 --> 01:17:58,978
because that
makes the most sense,
1566
01:17:59,022 --> 01:18:01,067
it's more than a
basketball-playing giraffe, or...
1567
01:18:01,111 --> 01:18:02,895
I did an elephant, too.
1568
01:18:02,939 --> 01:18:04,549
Well, the elephant's
a witch doctor,
1569
01:18:04,592 --> 01:18:05,831
so I don't know if
that's politically correct,
1570
01:18:05,855 --> 01:18:08,031
but at the time
it was accepted.
1571
01:18:08,074 --> 01:18:11,643
I did Sergeant Bananas and
Wingnut from Screwloose.
1572
01:18:11,687 --> 01:18:13,645
It was almost a rule
1573
01:18:13,689 --> 01:18:15,560
that you could not
have a character
1574
01:18:15,603 --> 01:18:18,650
with two arms the same
or two legs the same.
1575
01:18:18,694 --> 01:18:22,175
One of them would
have to be a toilet plunger
1576
01:18:22,219 --> 01:18:25,918
or a robot leg
or a tentacle,
1577
01:18:25,962 --> 01:18:28,225
and it was cool!
1578
01:18:28,268 --> 01:18:32,098
They did some really amazingly
creative sculpts and designs
1579
01:18:32,142 --> 01:18:33,491
and paint jobs
and stuff.
1580
01:18:33,534 --> 01:18:35,754
Mutagen Man.
1581
01:18:35,798 --> 01:18:39,279
Actually, I think I did the
preliminary design for that.
1582
01:18:39,323 --> 01:18:41,978
Turtles have been kind of
the Barbie of action figures.
1583
01:18:42,021 --> 01:18:44,763
You can apply almost anything to Turtles.
1584
01:18:44,807 --> 01:18:47,984
Playmates decided nothing
sells better than a Turtle,
1585
01:18:48,027 --> 01:18:50,427
so they were starting to
concentrate on just Turtle variants.
1586
01:18:50,464 --> 01:18:52,640
I submitted
a lot of stuff,
1587
01:18:52,684 --> 01:18:54,773
a lot of really
bad stuff.
1588
01:18:54,817 --> 01:18:58,603
I had this line of mutant
people, like a plumber.
1589
01:18:58,646 --> 01:19:01,911
I had Motorhead,
which was a mutant cabbie,
1590
01:19:01,954 --> 01:19:04,870
a traffic cop who had
a stoplight for a head.
1591
01:19:12,225 --> 01:19:14,227
Also, can we talk
for a second,
1592
01:19:14,271 --> 01:19:15,968
about to blow
your minds,
1593
01:19:16,012 --> 01:19:18,275
about the video game.
1594
01:19:18,318 --> 01:19:20,407
There's a couple tiers
of the video game.
1595
01:19:20,451 --> 01:19:22,366
There's the original game,
the Nintendo game
1596
01:19:22,409 --> 01:19:24,803
that was in the movieWizard,
that was impossible.
1597
01:19:24,847 --> 01:19:26,762
It is the hardest game.
1598
01:19:26,805 --> 01:19:30,113
But the arcade
four-player beat 'em up.
1599
01:19:30,156 --> 01:19:35,553
That video game is almost,
in its own category,
1600
01:19:35,596 --> 01:19:39,078
bigger thanTeenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles were in their category.
1601
01:19:39,122 --> 01:19:41,733
That video game was special
in its own right, you know?
1602
01:19:41,777 --> 01:19:43,189
I remember playing people and I was like,
1603
01:19:43,213 --> 01:19:45,824
"I have to be Donatello,
that's my guy."
1604
01:19:45,868 --> 01:19:49,001
Not because of
his skills,
1605
01:19:49,045 --> 01:19:51,830
but because that was the guy
that I related to the most.
1606
01:19:51,874 --> 01:19:54,224
Turtles in Time
at the arcade.
1607
01:19:54,267 --> 01:19:56,835
$20, and we were so close to beating it.
1608
01:19:56,879 --> 01:19:59,205
We ran out of money, and that
was our allowance of five weeks.
1609
01:19:59,229 --> 01:20:01,492
Man, back in the day,
you had to pump money in...
1610
01:20:01,535 --> 01:20:04,016
So, produced through the
studio, the Archie Comics...
1611
01:20:04,060 --> 01:20:06,453
Steve Murphy
wrote a lot of those,
1612
01:20:06,497 --> 01:20:08,736
Ken Mitchroney and a lot
of the guys drew all that stuff.
1613
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:11,110
We produced it in house and
published through Archie.
1614
01:20:11,154 --> 01:20:13,156
Pete and Kevin said,
1615
01:20:13,199 --> 01:20:15,399
"Do whatever you want with
the Archie book," and we did.
1616
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:17,421
I had some ideas
I wanted to do
1617
01:20:17,464 --> 01:20:19,249
and no one else
wanted to do it.
1618
01:20:19,292 --> 01:20:20,511
I think Mike
Dooney had done
1619
01:20:20,554 --> 01:20:23,253
an adaption of
the Murakami-Wolf show.
1620
01:20:23,296 --> 01:20:25,690
So, I was actually
watching it on TV at home,
1621
01:20:25,733 --> 01:20:28,388
we didn't even have a
VHS of it or whatever.
1622
01:20:28,432 --> 01:20:30,521
I was watching it on TV
and I had the storyboards,
1623
01:20:30,564 --> 01:20:32,305
so I would
draw it that way.
1624
01:20:32,349 --> 01:20:35,004
And I felt that there was some
other things we could do with it
1625
01:20:35,047 --> 01:20:37,528
if Pete and Kevin
agreed with me,
1626
01:20:37,571 --> 01:20:40,574
and I talked to them and they
said, "Yeah, that'd be great."
1627
01:20:40,618 --> 01:20:42,968
Then I talked to
Murph and wondered
1628
01:20:43,012 --> 01:20:46,929
if he'd partner up with me,
because I couldn't write it.
1629
01:20:46,972 --> 01:20:48,756
If something in the book
1630
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:52,369
influenced someone
to maybe recycle
1631
01:20:52,412 --> 01:20:54,632
or make the world
a better place,
1632
01:20:54,675 --> 01:20:56,329
I think it's all
for the better.
1633
01:20:56,373 --> 01:20:58,505
They were just goofy
and strange enough
1634
01:20:58,549 --> 01:21:01,857
to where you can do a
lot of things with them,
1635
01:21:01,900 --> 01:21:04,555
and that's one of the things
that makes them so popular,
1636
01:21:04,598 --> 01:21:06,209
they can go to
an alien world,
1637
01:21:06,252 --> 01:21:08,864
they can run around
downtown New York.
1638
01:21:08,907 --> 01:21:11,954
You can just use them
in different situations,
1639
01:21:11,997 --> 01:21:14,043
and it always just seems to work.
1640
01:21:14,086 --> 01:21:16,045
We also produced live entertainment.
1641
01:21:16,088 --> 01:21:19,700
In fact, we opened up
on Radio City Music Hall.
1642
01:21:19,744 --> 01:21:24,531
You couldn't stage a play,
so to speak, for little kids,
1643
01:21:24,575 --> 01:21:28,753
so instead they had the
Turtles become rock stars.
1644
01:21:28,796 --> 01:21:31,190
The day of the opening,
the Turtles were just above
1645
01:21:31,234 --> 01:21:33,801
the Radio City Music Hall marquee,
1646
01:21:33,845 --> 01:21:36,326
and they were performing
one of their songs live,
1647
01:21:36,369 --> 01:21:38,154
and it was a terrific show.
1648
01:21:38,197 --> 01:21:41,722
And that show
went on the road,
1649
01:21:43,507 --> 01:21:45,901
and the Turtles appeared
live across the country
1650
01:21:45,944 --> 01:21:48,555
in venues everywhere
and internationally as well.
1651
01:21:48,599 --> 01:21:51,471
The summer after my
sophomore year of college,
1652
01:21:51,515 --> 01:21:52,579
a friend of mine
was working
1653
01:21:52,603 --> 01:21:54,822
at a theater company
as an intern.
1654
01:21:54,866 --> 01:21:57,913
Todd Holoubek ran into a
State rehearsal and said,
1655
01:21:57,956 --> 01:22:00,396
"Does anybody here want to be
a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle?"
1656
01:22:02,308 --> 01:22:05,148
I'd heard the name Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtle, I thought it was funny,
1657
01:22:05,181 --> 01:22:06,878
I didn't really know what it was.
1658
01:22:06,922 --> 01:22:09,011
I think everybody in the group said yes.
1659
01:22:09,054 --> 01:22:11,927
So, we went to this
rock and roll office.
1660
01:22:14,016 --> 01:22:16,801
A guy named Steven Leber
ran this office.
1661
01:22:16,844 --> 01:22:19,369
So, they needed
anybody who could go out
1662
01:22:19,412 --> 01:22:23,025
and put on the costumes
and do the advance work.
1663
01:22:23,068 --> 01:22:27,029
So, you would travel
one city ahead of the tour
1664
01:22:27,072 --> 01:22:29,031
and do promotion.
1665
01:22:29,074 --> 01:22:31,294
They were producing
a rock and roll Turtle tour
1666
01:22:32,730 --> 01:22:34,471
called the Coming Out
of Our Shells Tour.
1667
01:22:34,514 --> 01:22:36,429
And the songs
that they were singing
1668
01:22:36,473 --> 01:22:40,259
were on this big giant show
at Radio City Music Hall,
1669
01:22:40,303 --> 01:22:44,002
which had sold out a four-week
run at Radio City Music Hall.
1670
01:22:44,046 --> 01:22:47,745
So, it was this big show and
Broadway dancers were in the outfits.
1671
01:22:55,579 --> 01:22:59,670
And on the subway home,
my friend Ben is going,
1672
01:22:59,713 --> 01:23:01,933
"You know, it would be
kind of cool to sort of
1673
01:23:01,977 --> 01:23:05,502
"get paid to travel the
country and be a turtle."
1674
01:23:05,545 --> 01:23:08,026
And I'm like, "Yeah, it would
be kind of cool to do that."
1675
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:10,048
And by the end of the subway
ride, we had convinced ourselves
1676
01:23:10,072 --> 01:23:11,682
that we were gonna
drop out of school
1677
01:23:11,725 --> 01:23:13,225
and become Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1678
01:23:13,249 --> 01:23:14,467
And that's what we did.
1679
01:23:14,511 --> 01:23:17,514
So, it's this vinyl suit
1680
01:23:17,557 --> 01:23:21,039
with big rubbery attachments
1681
01:23:21,083 --> 01:23:24,608
and a hard plastic shell
and the robotic head,
1682
01:23:24,651 --> 01:23:28,090
which is filled with
servos and whirring gear
1683
01:23:28,133 --> 01:23:30,657
and electronics, and the eyes
open and the mouth moves
1684
01:23:30,701 --> 01:23:33,051
and you control it
with a remote control.
1685
01:23:33,095 --> 01:23:36,620
Me and Mike Black both did
an appearance as the Turtles
1686
01:23:36,663 --> 01:23:42,060
at a pizza restaurant
somewhere in Juarez, Mexico.
1687
01:23:42,104 --> 01:23:44,541
They were doing
a show in Texas,
1688
01:23:44,584 --> 01:23:47,022
but we were gonna go into
Mexico in Juarez to promote it.
1689
01:23:49,198 --> 01:23:51,176
And the idea was we were
gonna go to this ice cream store
1690
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:53,680
and greet kids at an ice
cream store and wave,
1691
01:23:53,724 --> 01:23:58,250
but when we showed up, there
were thousands of kids there.
1692
01:23:58,294 --> 01:24:01,210
And there was no crowd control,
1693
01:24:01,253 --> 01:24:02,950
there was no cops,
1694
01:24:02,994 --> 01:24:05,475
it was just this sea of people.
1695
01:24:05,518 --> 01:24:08,304
And we went up on the roof of this thing
1696
01:24:08,347 --> 01:24:10,436
and it was like Saigon.
1697
01:24:11,959 --> 01:24:15,050
We were up on the
roof in these turtle outfits
1698
01:24:15,093 --> 01:24:19,054
as a sea of Mexican children were just...
1699
01:24:19,097 --> 01:24:22,622
And we had pizza to throw
down at them and T-shirts.
1700
01:24:22,666 --> 01:24:24,339
I'll never forget looking
through this turtle mask
1701
01:24:24,363 --> 01:24:26,583
at these
thousands of kids
1702
01:24:26,626 --> 01:24:29,412
just massed
outside this store
1703
01:24:29,455 --> 01:24:30,587
cheering and waving,
1704
01:24:30,630 --> 01:24:32,067
and we're dancing.
1705
01:24:33,894 --> 01:24:36,419
It was kind of a profound
moment, because
1706
01:24:36,462 --> 01:24:39,248
it brought home not only the
phenomenon of the Turtles,
1707
01:24:39,291 --> 01:24:41,313
but there was also something
sort of larger and sadder
1708
01:24:41,337 --> 01:24:42,903
about the state
of our world
1709
01:24:42,947 --> 01:24:45,602
in seeing
all these poor kids
1710
01:24:45,645 --> 01:24:47,212
who were
just as caught up
1711
01:24:47,256 --> 01:24:48,450
as their American
counterparts in this thing,
1712
01:24:48,474 --> 01:24:50,563
but had no access to it,
1713
01:24:50,607 --> 01:24:52,609
in the way that their
American counterparts did.
1714
01:24:52,652 --> 01:24:55,220
It was kind of a bummer,
but the ice cream was good.
1715
01:25:01,879 --> 01:25:04,751
We were afraid that
this was a one-off.
1716
01:25:04,795 --> 01:25:06,927
Obviously, so was New Line,
so was everybody.
1717
01:25:06,971 --> 01:25:09,060
The whole industry said,
1718
01:25:09,104 --> 01:25:10,627
"It's a one-off,
it's Cabbage Patch,
1719
01:25:10,670 --> 01:25:13,151
"it will never
be another one."
1720
01:25:13,195 --> 01:25:15,022
So we rushed,
1721
01:25:15,066 --> 01:25:17,286
we came up with a concept.
1722
01:25:17,329 --> 01:25:19,636
We got that thing shot and
on the screen in one year.
1723
01:25:19,679 --> 01:25:20,724
That's pretty amazing.
1724
01:25:20,767 --> 01:25:22,595
And then we decided,
1725
01:25:22,639 --> 01:25:25,685
"Let's air it out
for a year. Let's...
1726
01:25:25,729 --> 01:25:28,340
"It's got muscle in it."
1727
01:25:28,384 --> 01:25:32,823
It did from 134 to 82,
that's not too bad.
1728
01:25:32,866 --> 01:25:34,129
So, when we did
the third movie,
1729
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,829
we tried to make it more
towards the first movie,
1730
01:25:38,872 --> 01:25:41,745
which had a bit more of an
edge and a bit more of an epic feel
1731
01:25:41,788 --> 01:25:44,008
and the back to Japan
storyline.
1732
01:25:44,051 --> 01:25:45,966
The first movie
I see as a huge step forward,
1733
01:25:46,010 --> 01:25:48,012
maybe even a huge leap forward,
1734
01:25:48,055 --> 01:25:51,450
and the second movie
was a huge step backwards,
1735
01:25:51,494 --> 01:25:54,323
so we kind of ended up in
square one with the third movie.
1736
01:25:58,240 --> 01:25:59,502
It's really
hard to describe,
1737
01:25:59,545 --> 01:26:00,865
even when
you're going through it,
1738
01:26:00,894 --> 01:26:03,070
when you're in
the middle of it.
1739
01:26:03,114 --> 01:26:05,353
I remember the biggest effect it
had on probably both Peter and I
1740
01:26:05,377 --> 01:26:09,468
was that we went from guys
that got into the business
1741
01:26:09,512 --> 01:26:11,352
to write and draw comics,
tell our own stories.
1742
01:26:11,383 --> 01:26:15,474
In, say, 1986, '87,
1743
01:26:15,518 --> 01:26:17,607
we were still drawing
roughly 90% of the time,
1744
01:26:17,650 --> 01:26:19,565
80% to 90% of the time,
1745
01:26:19,609 --> 01:26:22,177
and then handling business
10% to 20% of the time,
1746
01:26:22,220 --> 01:26:25,092
and then the following year,
it was a complete reversal.
1747
01:26:25,136 --> 01:26:27,486
Kevin and I, we had
kind of been growing apart
1748
01:26:28,661 --> 01:26:31,011
as friends and also business people.
1749
01:26:31,055 --> 01:26:32,796
He actually moved out to the west coast,
1750
01:26:34,276 --> 01:26:35,668
I think, in the early '90s.
1751
01:26:36,278 --> 01:26:38,149
At that time, I had
1752
01:26:38,193 --> 01:26:40,020
a number of other
creative things that I had.
1753
01:26:40,064 --> 01:26:41,631
I ownedHeavy
Metal Magazine
1754
01:26:41,674 --> 01:26:43,217
and we were producing
a new movie there.
1755
01:26:43,241 --> 01:26:44,547
And we
ended up realizing,
1756
01:26:44,590 --> 01:26:46,133
I think both of us came to the conclusion
1757
01:26:46,157 --> 01:26:48,812
that you can't really run
a partnership this way.
1758
01:26:48,855 --> 01:26:52,163
We'd already gone 10 years,
or at least seven years
1759
01:26:52,207 --> 01:26:54,513
beyond where they thought
it was going to go.
1760
01:26:56,559 --> 01:26:59,431
I'm grateful for every
single one of those years
1761
01:26:59,475 --> 01:27:00,867
and experiences,
1762
01:27:00,911 --> 01:27:02,869
so I signed over
creative control to Peter.
1763
01:27:07,178 --> 01:27:11,095
Back in 2001, I started
up the Turtle comic again,
1764
01:27:11,138 --> 01:27:14,011
really doing it myself
except for the penciling,
1765
01:27:14,054 --> 01:27:15,926
which Jim Lawson did.
1766
01:27:15,969 --> 01:27:19,886
I was plotting it, writing
it, lettering it, toning it,
1767
01:27:19,930 --> 01:27:22,933
doing some inking
on the first few issues.
1768
01:27:22,976 --> 01:27:25,805
And I was really having
a whole lot of fun with it,
1769
01:27:25,849 --> 01:27:30,114
and I thought, "This is great,
because I'm able to pick up
1770
01:27:30,157 --> 01:27:33,204
"about 10 years after the last
time I did a regularTurtle book."
1771
01:27:33,248 --> 01:27:36,468
And although it did appeal
to a bunch of people,
1772
01:27:36,512 --> 01:27:40,080
I also started getting a lot
of people commenting that,
1773
01:27:40,124 --> 01:27:44,259
"Jeez, I really liked the old
Eastman/Laird ones a lot better."
1774
01:27:44,302 --> 01:27:48,306
And I think that the problem
1775
01:27:48,350 --> 01:27:49,742
that people were having with it
1776
01:27:49,786 --> 01:27:52,876
actually relates to something,
1777
01:27:52,919 --> 01:27:54,791
one of those fortuitous circumstances
1778
01:27:54,834 --> 01:27:56,358
that comes along every so often
1779
01:27:58,229 --> 01:28:02,015
where two people of
largely different personalities
1780
01:28:03,974 --> 01:28:06,455
can get together and
work together on something
1781
01:28:06,498 --> 01:28:09,762
and the whole is greater
than the sum of its parts.
1782
01:28:09,806 --> 01:28:12,156
It's actually one of the
things I kind of regret,
1783
01:28:12,199 --> 01:28:14,332
about the fact that
Kevin and I have not
1784
01:28:14,376 --> 01:28:16,508
been so close
over the years,
1785
01:28:16,552 --> 01:28:20,077
because he and I went through
this together and no one else did.
1786
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,340
And I'm sure
there are things
1787
01:28:22,384 --> 01:28:24,690
that he would say to me
or I would say to him
1788
01:28:24,734 --> 01:28:26,823
that would spark some memory in our heads,
1789
01:28:26,866 --> 01:28:30,609
like, "Oh, yeah, I remember when
that kind of goofy thing happened."
1790
01:28:30,653 --> 01:28:31,958
Pete! LAIRD:
What's that, Kev?
1791
01:28:33,699 --> 01:28:35,788
See, we had
a design idea here.
1792
01:28:35,832 --> 01:28:37,660
See up here where
it's all white...
1793
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:42,969
My favorite Turtle
has always been Donatello,
1794
01:28:43,013 --> 01:28:45,320
because he's the
pacifist of the group.
1795
01:28:45,363 --> 01:28:47,887
Kevin's favorite
Turtle is Raphael,
1796
01:28:47,931 --> 01:28:50,760
probably the most
aggressive of the Turtles.
1797
01:28:50,803 --> 01:28:53,328
And I think it was the combination
of those two approaches
1798
01:28:53,371 --> 01:28:56,113
that really made those early
issues something special.
1799
01:28:59,508 --> 01:29:02,032
So, it's been two and a
half decades for the Turtles,
1800
01:29:02,075 --> 01:29:04,600
so we've seen lots
of generations of
1801
01:29:04,643 --> 01:29:06,950
five to 11-year-olds
come through,
1802
01:29:06,993 --> 01:29:10,257
but they all react
similarly
1803
01:29:10,301 --> 01:29:12,381
when it comes to the Turtles,
so there's something...
1804
01:29:14,436 --> 01:29:17,743
The core of the Turtles
is appealing to kids.
1805
01:29:17,787 --> 01:29:20,790
But now we're seeing
parents, especially dads
1806
01:29:20,833 --> 01:29:22,444
coming up
with their son,
1807
01:29:22,487 --> 01:29:25,098
and the son's three
or four years old,
1808
01:29:25,142 --> 01:29:27,623
and the dad's like,
"I loved the series,
1809
01:29:27,666 --> 01:29:29,165
"the original Turtles,
when I was a kid,
1810
01:29:29,189 --> 01:29:31,714
"and now my son has
found it on his own."
1811
01:29:40,462 --> 01:29:42,768
The sale of
the Turtle property
1812
01:29:42,812 --> 01:29:46,250
was something that had been
considered for a long time,
1813
01:29:46,293 --> 01:29:49,862
and then in October of 2009,
we signed some papers
1814
01:29:49,906 --> 01:29:52,517
and got some checks
and that was it.
1815
01:30:04,268 --> 01:30:06,333
We're walking down the toy
aisle, the action figure aisle,
1816
01:30:06,357 --> 01:30:09,229
and this mother's kind of dragging
this kid out of the aisle going,
1817
01:30:09,273 --> 01:30:12,798
and the kid's pitching a fit
going, "Mommy, please!"
1818
01:30:12,842 --> 01:30:15,758
And just as we're getting
there, the mom was like,
1819
01:30:15,801 --> 01:30:17,499
"No, no, no,
I'm not buying you
1820
01:30:17,542 --> 01:30:18,911
"one of those
stupid Ninja Turtles,"
1821
01:30:18,935 --> 01:30:20,458
and went off.
1822
01:30:20,502 --> 01:30:22,547
And Peter and I looked at
each other and went like,
1823
01:30:22,591 --> 01:30:25,245
"Holy, what did we do?"
1824
01:30:25,289 --> 01:30:27,291
These characters were as real,
1825
01:30:27,334 --> 01:30:29,424
and are as real, even today,
1826
01:30:29,467 --> 01:30:31,121
for so many people,
1827
01:30:31,164 --> 01:30:33,253
because it just touched so many lives.
1828
01:30:33,297 --> 01:30:35,647
The Turtles is a great
story from that standpoint,
1829
01:30:35,691 --> 01:30:38,998
it's a story of two guys
that borrowed money
1830
01:30:39,042 --> 01:30:42,698
and had a dream and
took a comic book to press.
1831
01:30:42,741 --> 01:30:46,136
It's lightning in a jar, it really is,
1832
01:30:46,179 --> 01:30:49,531
and you can't create that on purpose,
1833
01:30:49,574 --> 01:30:52,359
you just got to do it from your heart.
1834
01:30:52,403 --> 01:30:55,145
To put it in perspective, the peak year
1835
01:30:55,188 --> 01:30:59,932
we shipped 100 million
units of figures and vehicles.
1836
01:30:59,976 --> 01:31:02,369
Which I would guess that
1837
01:31:02,413 --> 01:31:04,154
that is the biggest single year
1838
01:31:04,197 --> 01:31:07,636
that any action figure
line has ever experienced.
1839
01:31:07,679 --> 01:31:11,509
If nothing else ever is said
about this franchise is that
1840
01:31:11,553 --> 01:31:14,033
it changed so many people's lives,
1841
01:31:14,077 --> 01:31:17,341
and at this point in life, it's all good.
1842
01:31:17,384 --> 01:31:19,952
Certainly when we got the
job originally, none of us,
1843
01:31:19,996 --> 01:31:21,930
and I'm sure you've heard this
from everybody else on the show,
1844
01:31:21,954 --> 01:31:25,523
nobody knew that we'd be here
talking about it a generation later.
1845
01:31:25,567 --> 01:31:29,701
There is something about that central
concept of the Turtles that is timeless.
1846
01:31:29,745 --> 01:31:33,096
Four outsiders brought
together under a mentor,
1847
01:31:33,139 --> 01:31:34,532
living in this world
1848
01:31:34,576 --> 01:31:36,534
and trying to
make their way,
1849
01:31:36,578 --> 01:31:40,016
it's a fabulous sort of
parable for adolescence.
1850
01:31:40,059 --> 01:31:44,237
Even The Avengersare
big on the movie screen,
1851
01:31:44,281 --> 01:31:47,153
but the Turtles also had a TV show
1852
01:31:47,197 --> 01:31:49,547
that was on every day, that kids watched,
1853
01:31:49,591 --> 01:31:54,030
they had three movies out,
they had an album and a tour.
1854
01:31:54,073 --> 01:31:59,078
So, if The Avengersalso had
songs about being Avengers,
1855
01:31:59,122 --> 01:32:03,082
and were going on tour
on stage as The Avengers,
1856
01:32:03,126 --> 01:32:05,650
there's no comparison.
1857
01:32:05,694 --> 01:32:07,802
I do think that there's
something just built in the core
1858
01:32:07,826 --> 01:32:10,873
of these four green guys
1859
01:32:10,916 --> 01:32:14,311
that is endearing forever.
1860
01:32:14,354 --> 01:32:18,358
How I was working in a
lobster restaurant in Maine,
1861
01:32:18,402 --> 01:32:20,752
met a waitress
that I really liked,
1862
01:32:20,796 --> 01:32:21,971
we fell in love,
1863
01:32:22,014 --> 01:32:23,973
she was going to
school in Amherst,
1864
01:32:24,016 --> 01:32:26,845
I moved with her
to Amherst,
1865
01:32:26,889 --> 01:32:31,197
happened to have a
getting-by job at a pizza place,
1866
01:32:31,241 --> 01:32:32,392
just happened to be
on the bus
1867
01:32:32,416 --> 01:32:33,785
on the right day,
at the right time,
1868
01:32:33,809 --> 01:32:36,115
to find this magazine
that somebody left behind
1869
01:32:36,159 --> 01:32:39,162
that made me pursue
my career goal
1870
01:32:39,205 --> 01:32:40,903
of wanting to write
and draw comic books
1871
01:32:40,946 --> 01:32:42,968
to this place in Northampton,
which led me to Peter.
1872
01:32:42,992 --> 01:32:46,125
What if that person who
had that Scatmagazine
1873
01:32:46,169 --> 01:32:47,866
hadn't dropped it on the floor of that bus
1874
01:32:47,910 --> 01:32:49,910
that Kevin was taking from
Amherst to Northampton?
1875
01:32:50,869 --> 01:32:51,977
It would never have happened.
1876
01:32:52,001 --> 01:32:53,001
There's too many...
1877
01:32:54,525 --> 01:32:56,179
Too many
happy accidents.
153115
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