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1
00:00:11,359 --> 00:00:14,579
[bell rings]
2
00:00:14,623 --> 00:00:15,973
- With the slasher films,
3
00:00:16,016 --> 00:00:19,716
the rock stars
are the killers.
4
00:00:19,758 --> 00:00:21,498
- You don't know what pain is!
5
00:00:21,543 --> 00:00:23,153
- [screams]
- Everybody has this dark side
6
00:00:23,197 --> 00:00:25,417
that needs to be filled.
7
00:00:25,460 --> 00:00:28,250
- West used to call Freddy
the bastard stepfather
8
00:00:28,289 --> 00:00:30,069
of us all.
9
00:00:30,117 --> 00:00:32,897
- This killer that can kill you
in your dreams.
10
00:00:32,945 --> 00:00:34,815
- Candyman.
11
00:00:34,860 --> 00:00:36,730
- It doesn't get much scarier
than that.
12
00:00:36,775 --> 00:00:38,515
- Be my victim.
13
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,910
- You're never gonna
catch him.
14
00:00:39,952 --> 00:00:41,652
- Everybody's a suspect.
- [screams]
15
00:00:41,693 --> 00:00:43,003
- I think the fun of "Scream"
16
00:00:43,043 --> 00:00:44,573
is the self-awareness...
17
00:00:44,609 --> 00:00:46,479
- Oh, you wanna play
psycho killer?
18
00:00:46,524 --> 00:00:48,484
- And the deconstruction
of the horror genre.
19
00:00:48,526 --> 00:00:49,876
- [grunts]
- [screams]
20
00:00:49,919 --> 00:00:52,919
[gunshot]
- The entire audience
21
00:00:52,965 --> 00:00:55,315
jumped out of their skin.
22
00:00:55,359 --> 00:00:58,669
- In a movie,
we have a chance to...
23
00:00:58,710 --> 00:01:01,710
almost externalize
the fears that we have.
24
00:01:01,757 --> 00:01:03,797
- [screams]
25
00:01:04,977 --> 00:01:06,977
- Could I saw off my leg
if I had to?
26
00:01:07,023 --> 00:01:08,723
- We invented a whole new term.
27
00:01:08,764 --> 00:01:11,204
- Torture porn became
the cathartic release.
28
00:01:11,245 --> 00:01:12,765
- You have to work
with the dark side.
29
00:01:12,811 --> 00:01:14,421
- Horror is the only genre
30
00:01:14,465 --> 00:01:16,725
where it's flattering
if somebody says,
31
00:01:16,772 --> 00:01:17,822
"Ah, I couldn't watch
your movie.
32
00:01:17,860 --> 00:01:19,210
Had to leave."
33
00:01:19,253 --> 00:01:20,303
- [screams]
34
00:01:21,298 --> 00:01:23,078
- Oh, my God!
35
00:01:23,126 --> 00:01:24,646
- We're not allowed to be
scared anywhere in life.
36
00:01:24,693 --> 00:01:26,223
You can't be scared at work.
But for 90 minutes,
37
00:01:26,260 --> 00:01:28,830
you can be afraid
and not be a coward.
38
00:01:28,871 --> 00:01:30,131
- [screams]
39
00:01:30,177 --> 00:01:33,137
[suspenseful music]
40
00:01:33,180 --> 00:01:40,230
♪
41
00:01:49,587 --> 00:01:51,197
[chain saw revs]
42
00:01:56,072 --> 00:01:58,122
- After John Carpenter's
"Halloween"
43
00:01:58,161 --> 00:02:00,821
made box office history
in 1978,
44
00:02:00,859 --> 00:02:04,119
slasher films
ruled the screen.
45
00:02:05,342 --> 00:02:06,432
- [yelps]
46
00:02:06,474 --> 00:02:08,354
- But by 1984,
47
00:02:08,389 --> 00:02:11,169
audience fatigue
and critical backlash
48
00:02:11,218 --> 00:02:13,478
had taken hold.
49
00:02:13,524 --> 00:02:16,884
Slashers looked dead
in the water.
50
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,699
But the genre
was only sleeping.
51
00:02:19,748 --> 00:02:22,578
- I'm certainly not the first
girl to play a woman character
52
00:02:22,620 --> 00:02:25,970
who fights to the death
in a battle against a monster.
53
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,760
There will always be men
and there will always be women
54
00:02:30,802 --> 00:02:34,202
who are, you know,
forced to be that person.
55
00:02:35,459 --> 00:02:38,419
So "Nightmare on Elm Street"
is about a group of four kids,
56
00:02:38,462 --> 00:02:41,772
teenagers, who realize
57
00:02:41,813 --> 00:02:44,083
that they've all shared
the same nightmare.
58
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,210
- Eee.
- Nancy...
59
00:02:46,253 --> 00:02:48,913
you dreamed about
the same creep I did.
60
00:02:50,692 --> 00:02:52,222
- That's impossible.
61
00:02:52,259 --> 00:02:54,829
- And they don't really think
anything about it
62
00:02:54,870 --> 00:02:57,440
until each one of them,
one by one,
63
00:02:57,481 --> 00:02:59,351
starts dying in their dreams.
64
00:03:01,572 --> 00:03:02,922
- No. No. No!
65
00:03:02,965 --> 00:03:04,395
No!
66
00:03:04,445 --> 00:03:06,395
No!
[screams]
67
00:03:06,447 --> 00:03:09,357
- My character wants
to figure out,
68
00:03:09,406 --> 00:03:11,016
like, why this is happening,
69
00:03:11,060 --> 00:03:12,840
who it is that's killing them.
70
00:03:12,888 --> 00:03:16,238
And so the movie's about
Nancy's quest
71
00:03:16,283 --> 00:03:19,203
to discover Freddy Krueger
72
00:03:19,242 --> 00:03:21,332
and why he did it.
73
00:03:21,375 --> 00:03:22,845
- [growls]
74
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,769
- He did it as an act
of vengeance against
75
00:03:26,815 --> 00:03:28,245
some vigilante parents
76
00:03:28,295 --> 00:03:29,765
who killed him
in a boiler room.
77
00:03:29,818 --> 00:03:31,208
- Who are you?
78
00:03:35,127 --> 00:03:36,957
- Freddy Krueger
was a child murderer,
79
00:03:36,999 --> 00:03:39,349
and there isn't anything funny
about that.
80
00:03:39,393 --> 00:03:42,223
They kind of gloss over
that later.
81
00:03:42,265 --> 00:03:44,615
- [laughing]
82
00:03:44,659 --> 00:03:46,139
- The creation
of Freddy Krueger,
83
00:03:46,182 --> 00:03:48,182
this man who had knives
for fingers
84
00:03:48,228 --> 00:03:49,878
who would come to children
in their dreams
85
00:03:49,925 --> 00:03:51,535
and kill them,
was terrifying.
86
00:03:51,579 --> 00:03:53,059
It was just a terrifying idea.
87
00:03:53,102 --> 00:03:54,502
[eerie music]
88
00:03:54,538 --> 00:03:55,838
- [gasps]
89
00:03:55,887 --> 00:03:57,017
- I mean,
"Nightmare on Elm Street"
90
00:03:57,062 --> 00:03:59,242
is the next quantum leap
forward,
91
00:03:59,282 --> 00:04:00,722
I think, in horror.
- Yeah, definitely.
92
00:04:00,762 --> 00:04:01,892
- I mean, this killer
that can kill you
93
00:04:01,937 --> 00:04:03,457
in your dreams.
- Yeah.
94
00:04:03,504 --> 00:04:04,724
- So suddenly you have
a slasher whose arm--
95
00:04:04,766 --> 00:04:06,066
- It crosses
into the supernatural.
96
00:04:06,115 --> 00:04:07,895
It crosses into
the supernatural, yeah.
97
00:04:07,943 --> 00:04:10,033
- It is a blend
of supernatural and slashers.
98
00:04:10,075 --> 00:04:13,595
- The rules of any sort
of world don't apply.
99
00:04:13,644 --> 00:04:15,304
- Right.
- I think that's what made
100
00:04:15,342 --> 00:04:18,212
Freddy Krueger
such a unique character.
101
00:04:18,258 --> 00:04:20,298
- [shrieks]
102
00:04:20,347 --> 00:04:21,647
[screaming]
103
00:04:21,696 --> 00:04:23,086
- [growling]
104
00:04:23,132 --> 00:04:24,092
- It just took us
to a different place.
105
00:04:24,133 --> 00:04:25,133
- Yeah. Yeah.
106
00:04:25,177 --> 00:04:26,877
- [screams]
107
00:04:27,832 --> 00:04:30,442
- Wes Craven was a visionary,
I think,
108
00:04:30,487 --> 00:04:32,397
in terms of fear,
109
00:04:32,446 --> 00:04:34,966
understanding what that--
what that could be
110
00:04:35,013 --> 00:04:37,673
and maximizing that
111
00:04:37,712 --> 00:04:39,632
in these broad strokes,
112
00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:41,890
which "Nightmare
on Elm Street" has.
113
00:04:41,933 --> 00:04:43,333
- What is one
of the earliest things
114
00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:45,020
I can think of as a weapon
115
00:04:45,067 --> 00:04:47,027
that would have terrified
human beings?
116
00:04:47,069 --> 00:04:48,719
The cave bear reaching around
the corner
117
00:04:48,766 --> 00:04:50,196
with his massive mitt
118
00:04:50,246 --> 00:04:53,466
with daggers on the end
of every finger.
119
00:04:53,510 --> 00:04:55,210
That's primal.
120
00:04:55,251 --> 00:04:56,471
[metal screeches]
121
00:04:56,513 --> 00:04:58,213
Even the colors.
122
00:04:58,254 --> 00:05:01,004
I read an article on
the two most difficult colors
123
00:05:01,039 --> 00:05:04,569
for the iris--or the retina
to see next to each other
124
00:05:04,608 --> 00:05:06,608
were those two colors.
125
00:05:08,046 --> 00:05:09,736
And then finding an actor
who was brilliant
126
00:05:09,787 --> 00:05:11,487
and who could bring it to life.
127
00:05:11,528 --> 00:05:14,358
[eerie ambient music]
128
00:05:14,401 --> 00:05:16,971
- Wes used to call Freddy
the bastard stepfather
129
00:05:17,012 --> 00:05:18,752
of us all.
130
00:05:18,796 --> 00:05:21,146
But when I got the part,
131
00:05:21,190 --> 00:05:23,150
I didn't know
what I was gonna do.
132
00:05:23,192 --> 00:05:26,852
And the makeup sessions
informed
133
00:05:26,891 --> 00:05:28,551
a lot of what I did.
134
00:05:28,589 --> 00:05:31,679
They were dabbing at me
with a crusty brush
135
00:05:31,722 --> 00:05:33,862
and basting me
like a turkey
136
00:05:33,898 --> 00:05:37,208
with Vaseline so that I
picked up the light better.
137
00:05:37,249 --> 00:05:40,119
And in comes Johnny Depp
and Heather Langenkamp,
138
00:05:40,165 --> 00:05:42,295
arguably the two most
attractive young people
139
00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:44,302
in the world at that moment,
140
00:05:44,344 --> 00:05:47,784
and it got me angry and envious
of their youth and their beauty
141
00:05:47,825 --> 00:05:49,255
and the fact
that these two kids
142
00:05:49,305 --> 00:05:51,305
had their whole careers
ahead of them.
143
00:05:51,351 --> 00:05:54,701
And I went, "Wait a minute.
I can use that."
144
00:05:54,745 --> 00:05:57,135
- This is just a dream!
He isn't real!
145
00:05:57,182 --> 00:05:59,532
He isn't real!
- [roars]
146
00:05:59,576 --> 00:06:01,746
- [screaming]
- [laughing]
147
00:06:01,796 --> 00:06:03,836
- Of course, all my fights
with Freddy
148
00:06:03,885 --> 00:06:06,015
were fantastic,
and we would work on them
149
00:06:06,061 --> 00:06:07,801
for a long time.
150
00:06:07,845 --> 00:06:11,015
Once the camera was rolling,
151
00:06:11,066 --> 00:06:12,676
you know, we got into
our characters,
152
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,550
and I bashed him over the head
with a coffeepot.
153
00:06:14,591 --> 00:06:16,331
[chuckles]
154
00:06:16,376 --> 00:06:18,506
[glass shatters]
- [groans painfully]
155
00:06:18,552 --> 00:06:20,512
I think the real reason
it had
156
00:06:20,554 --> 00:06:23,864
such a massive audience
and still does
157
00:06:23,905 --> 00:06:26,725
is, every single one
of the films
158
00:06:26,777 --> 00:06:31,347
has a really strong,
well-written survivor girl.
159
00:06:31,391 --> 00:06:34,441
- Come out and show yourself,
you bastard!
160
00:06:34,481 --> 00:06:36,221
- So something
really interesting
161
00:06:36,265 --> 00:06:38,085
about Nancy Thompson
in "A Nightmare on Elm Street"
162
00:06:38,136 --> 00:06:40,486
is that it's sort of her
breaking free
163
00:06:40,530 --> 00:06:43,140
from this chain of suburbia
164
00:06:43,185 --> 00:06:45,405
being this ideal
because her family is broken.
165
00:06:45,448 --> 00:06:47,098
- Nancy.
166
00:06:47,145 --> 00:06:48,835
- I'm gonna go
and get the guy who did it.
167
00:06:49,844 --> 00:06:51,504
And I want you to be there
to arrest him
168
00:06:51,541 --> 00:06:53,201
when I bring him out, okay?
169
00:06:53,238 --> 00:06:55,588
- Just tell me who did it.
I'll go get him, baby.
170
00:06:56,764 --> 00:06:58,984
- Fred Krueger did it, Daddy.
171
00:06:59,027 --> 00:07:01,807
- Her father,
while, I think, very loving,
172
00:07:01,856 --> 00:07:03,156
is very inept.
173
00:07:03,205 --> 00:07:04,505
He refuses to believe her.
174
00:07:04,554 --> 00:07:07,084
Her mother's an alcoholic.
175
00:07:07,122 --> 00:07:09,692
She breaks free from it
by destroying the home,
176
00:07:09,733 --> 00:07:11,393
thereby destroying
Freddy Krueger,
177
00:07:11,431 --> 00:07:14,301
who came because her parents
had killed him.
178
00:07:14,346 --> 00:07:15,476
- [gasps]
179
00:07:15,522 --> 00:07:16,572
[string thwacks]
180
00:07:16,610 --> 00:07:18,660
- [screams]
181
00:07:18,699 --> 00:07:22,049
- I guess I'd say my very first
fans were young gay men.
182
00:07:22,093 --> 00:07:25,143
And they told me
that they were using Nancy
183
00:07:25,183 --> 00:07:27,623
as they faced their folks
or their parents
184
00:07:27,664 --> 00:07:31,364
or their families
in revealing their true selves.
185
00:07:31,407 --> 00:07:34,717
I take back every bit
of energy I gave you.
186
00:07:36,673 --> 00:07:38,153
You're nothing.
187
00:07:38,196 --> 00:07:40,676
And they expressed to me
that it was just, like--
188
00:07:40,721 --> 00:07:42,461
it was their Freddy, you know,
189
00:07:42,505 --> 00:07:45,415
just, like, that scary thing
that they have to face,
190
00:07:45,465 --> 00:07:47,115
that they have to fight.
191
00:07:47,162 --> 00:07:49,512
I would often listen
to all sorts of people
192
00:07:49,556 --> 00:07:51,076
talk about what
their Freddy was.
193
00:07:51,122 --> 00:07:53,432
And, I mean,
it can be anything,
194
00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:55,483
I'm telling you.
It can be anything.
195
00:07:55,518 --> 00:07:57,088
Kids who were bullied
would tell me
196
00:07:57,128 --> 00:07:59,218
that they would use the images
197
00:07:59,261 --> 00:08:00,871
of "Nightmare on Elm Street"
198
00:08:00,915 --> 00:08:03,265
to help them face bullies
in their life.
199
00:08:04,527 --> 00:08:07,787
- You think you was gonna
get away from me?
200
00:08:07,835 --> 00:08:10,395
- I know you too well now,
Freddy.
201
00:08:10,446 --> 00:08:12,536
You know, Wes Craven
probably never knew
202
00:08:12,579 --> 00:08:14,359
how many he people
he was gonna help
203
00:08:14,406 --> 00:08:18,146
by creating this Nancy-Freddy
dynamic.
204
00:08:18,193 --> 00:08:20,463
- [roaring]
205
00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:21,720
- [screams]
206
00:08:23,764 --> 00:08:25,684
- It seems to me
there were several
207
00:08:25,722 --> 00:08:27,382
peak nightmares,
208
00:08:27,419 --> 00:08:29,509
that the first one
was really terrifying,
209
00:08:29,552 --> 00:08:31,772
but there was a couple others
way downstream
210
00:08:31,815 --> 00:08:33,335
that were really satisfying
211
00:08:33,382 --> 00:08:35,732
and did interesting things
intellectually.
212
00:08:35,776 --> 00:08:37,466
- [screams]
213
00:08:37,517 --> 00:08:39,257
- There's a lot of echoes
to Kafka,
214
00:08:39,301 --> 00:08:42,041
you know, and that,
insects and other things.
215
00:08:42,086 --> 00:08:43,696
- [screaming]
216
00:08:43,740 --> 00:08:45,440
- Freddy Krueger's
pretty terrifying
217
00:08:45,481 --> 00:08:47,881
in the first
"Nightmare on Elm Street."
218
00:08:47,918 --> 00:08:49,308
- Watch this.
219
00:08:53,750 --> 00:08:55,800
- But he became
a one-line reader.
220
00:08:56,623 --> 00:08:58,713
- How's this for a wet dream?
221
00:08:58,755 --> 00:09:00,665
[laughs]
222
00:09:00,714 --> 00:09:02,114
[groans]
223
00:09:02,150 --> 00:09:04,540
- Silly, funny, like, puns
224
00:09:04,587 --> 00:09:06,627
and double entendres.
[laughs]
225
00:09:09,374 --> 00:09:10,684
- This is it, Jennifer.
226
00:09:10,724 --> 00:09:13,864
Your big break in TV.
- [screams]
227
00:09:13,901 --> 00:09:15,991
- Welcome to prime time, bitch.
228
00:09:16,033 --> 00:09:18,303
- [screams]
229
00:09:18,340 --> 00:09:20,170
- With a joke here,
a joke there,
230
00:09:20,211 --> 00:09:21,651
a wisecrack here, there,
231
00:09:21,691 --> 00:09:22,911
it makes it easier
to set them up
232
00:09:22,953 --> 00:09:24,653
for another dark sequence
233
00:09:24,694 --> 00:09:27,874
or another horrific thing
or just a cheap-thrill scare.
234
00:09:27,915 --> 00:09:30,605
- [gasps]
- Got your nose!
235
00:09:30,657 --> 00:09:32,177
Did we go too far sometimes?
Perhaps.
236
00:09:32,223 --> 00:09:33,923
And did we load it up
too much?
237
00:09:33,964 --> 00:09:36,014
Sometimes, perhaps, yeah.
238
00:09:36,053 --> 00:09:39,973
I'll get you, my pretty,
and your little soul too.
239
00:09:40,014 --> 00:09:42,104
[laughs]
240
00:09:42,146 --> 00:09:44,666
- You know, I've been,
you know,
241
00:09:44,714 --> 00:09:46,804
listening to
242
00:09:46,847 --> 00:09:49,627
what--how crowds respond
to horror
243
00:09:49,676 --> 00:09:51,936
for most of my life.
244
00:09:51,982 --> 00:09:53,722
You know, talking about
sort of--
245
00:09:53,767 --> 00:09:56,247
with the Freddy movies,
with the Freddy sequels...
246
00:09:56,291 --> 00:09:59,691
- Mm-hmm.
- How a black theater could--
247
00:09:59,729 --> 00:10:02,469
You know, the relationship
to Freddy
248
00:10:02,514 --> 00:10:04,564
is almost--is closer
than it is to the victims
249
00:10:04,604 --> 00:10:06,214
of those movies.
- Of course.
250
00:10:06,257 --> 00:10:07,647
- Right? Of course.
- You identify with Freddy.
251
00:10:07,694 --> 00:10:09,224
- He's funny.
You identify with him.
252
00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:10,830
There's--you know him.
You don't know
253
00:10:10,871 --> 00:10:12,391
these new mother[bleep]
coming to get killed.
254
00:10:12,437 --> 00:10:13,957
- Right.
- They're just sheep
255
00:10:14,004 --> 00:10:15,754
for the slaughter.
256
00:10:15,789 --> 00:10:17,699
- No!
257
00:10:17,747 --> 00:10:19,307
- By the way,
we're identifying with Freddy,
258
00:10:19,357 --> 00:10:21,007
the child murderer.
259
00:10:21,055 --> 00:10:23,795
- Yes, but black people
also love them some Jason...
260
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,450
- Yes.
- And some Michael Myers.
261
00:10:25,494 --> 00:10:26,844
- [screams]
No!
262
00:10:26,887 --> 00:10:28,407
[screaming]
263
00:10:28,453 --> 00:10:31,853
- There's something
about these--
264
00:10:31,892 --> 00:10:33,892
first of all, these characters
that don't give a [bleep]...
265
00:10:33,937 --> 00:10:35,937
- Mm-hmm.
- That are cold-blooded...
266
00:10:35,983 --> 00:10:38,203
[dramatic music]
267
00:10:38,246 --> 00:10:40,856
- That I think scratches
an itch,
268
00:10:40,901 --> 00:10:44,341
a frustrated itch,
a societally frustrated itch.
269
00:10:44,382 --> 00:10:46,252
- [screams]
270
00:10:46,297 --> 00:10:47,687
- That itch
would be scratched
271
00:10:47,734 --> 00:10:49,954
by a slasher with a hook,
272
00:10:49,997 --> 00:10:52,217
a monster driven by love
273
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:54,000
and the need to kill.
274
00:10:54,044 --> 00:10:55,664
- Be my victim.
275
00:10:59,180 --> 00:11:00,620
[eerie music]
276
00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:02,310
- Candyman.
277
00:11:02,357 --> 00:11:03,877
Candyman.
278
00:11:03,924 --> 00:11:05,844
Candyman.
279
00:11:05,882 --> 00:11:07,622
Candyman.
280
00:11:09,146 --> 00:11:11,106
- "Candyman," in a nutshell,
281
00:11:11,148 --> 00:11:13,588
is a dark love story.
282
00:11:13,629 --> 00:11:16,069
Virginia Madsen and I
were deeply in love
283
00:11:16,110 --> 00:11:17,890
in another life.
284
00:11:17,938 --> 00:11:19,718
Candyman was an artist,
285
00:11:19,766 --> 00:11:22,546
and unfortunately
her father was a racist.
286
00:11:22,594 --> 00:11:24,734
Had him lynched,
cut off his arm,
287
00:11:24,771 --> 00:11:26,341
and replaced it with a hook.
288
00:11:26,381 --> 00:11:29,731
And he was trying
to reclaim his lost love
289
00:11:29,776 --> 00:11:32,516
by getting her to honor,
you know,
290
00:11:32,561 --> 00:11:33,781
him as a mystery man.
291
00:11:33,823 --> 00:11:35,743
- [groans]
[blow lands]
292
00:11:35,782 --> 00:11:37,042
[gagging]
293
00:11:37,087 --> 00:11:38,787
- Oh! [bleep]!
294
00:11:38,828 --> 00:11:40,258
- [screaming]
295
00:11:40,308 --> 00:11:42,348
- What "Candyman" tried to do
296
00:11:42,397 --> 00:11:44,397
was using slavery
297
00:11:44,442 --> 00:11:46,622
and some of the violence
of slavery
298
00:11:46,662 --> 00:11:51,672
to explain the emergence
of this monstrous character
299
00:11:51,711 --> 00:11:53,631
who, if you say his name
300
00:11:53,669 --> 00:11:55,109
into a mirror five times--
301
00:11:55,149 --> 00:11:56,109
Dare you.
302
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:57,370
both: Candyman.
303
00:11:57,412 --> 00:11:59,762
Candyman.
Candyman.
304
00:11:59,806 --> 00:12:01,066
Candyman.
305
00:12:01,111 --> 00:12:02,771
- He comes if you just say
his name.
306
00:12:02,809 --> 00:12:04,249
- Candyman.
307
00:12:04,288 --> 00:12:06,248
- It doesn't get much scarier
than that.
308
00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:08,080
- [screams]
309
00:12:08,118 --> 00:12:09,858
- Most slasher films
start with
310
00:12:09,903 --> 00:12:12,123
a traumatic experience
that happens
311
00:12:12,166 --> 00:12:13,856
as, like, a--sort of a
312
00:12:13,907 --> 00:12:17,257
precursor to where the film
is set in modern day.
313
00:12:17,301 --> 00:12:19,651
The trauma itself serves
as a triggering effect
314
00:12:19,695 --> 00:12:23,255
for the killer
in the present time.
315
00:12:23,307 --> 00:12:25,087
What's so interesting
about that is that
316
00:12:25,135 --> 00:12:27,175
a lot of it is based
in loss and grief.
317
00:12:27,224 --> 00:12:29,364
- [gasping]
- [grunts]
318
00:12:31,359 --> 00:12:33,099
- It had a real impact
on a lot of audiences.
319
00:12:33,143 --> 00:12:35,103
Black audiences because, hey,
even though
320
00:12:35,145 --> 00:12:36,275
he's the monster...
321
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,190
- [screams]
- Believe in me.
322
00:12:39,236 --> 00:12:41,106
Be my victim.
323
00:12:41,151 --> 00:12:43,981
- We will turn out to see
blacks in a horror film.
324
00:12:46,243 --> 00:12:47,983
- It was based
on Clive Barker's book
325
00:12:48,028 --> 00:12:49,728
"The Forbidden."
326
00:12:49,769 --> 00:12:53,689
And I think what Bernard Rose,
the director and writer,
327
00:12:53,729 --> 00:12:55,339
did brilliantly
was to transpose it
328
00:12:55,383 --> 00:12:56,953
to Cabrini-Green,
329
00:12:56,993 --> 00:12:59,083
which is now gone
but was one of the most
330
00:12:59,126 --> 00:13:01,346
dangerous housing projects
in America.
331
00:13:02,825 --> 00:13:04,385
- I thought "Candyman"
was really cool
332
00:13:04,435 --> 00:13:06,045
because, you know,
you're so used to seeing
333
00:13:06,089 --> 00:13:07,309
these traditional
haunted house movies,
334
00:13:07,351 --> 00:13:08,311
and it's, like, the opposite.
335
00:13:08,352 --> 00:13:09,962
The setting is so gritty.
336
00:13:10,006 --> 00:13:12,176
[eerie ambient music]
337
00:13:12,226 --> 00:13:13,706
- I think "Candyman"
is intended more
338
00:13:13,749 --> 00:13:15,489
for a white audience.
339
00:13:15,533 --> 00:13:18,543
It's looking at kind of
the fear of the urban setting,
340
00:13:18,580 --> 00:13:21,320
and Cabrini-Green
and the sprawl
341
00:13:21,365 --> 00:13:23,625
of poverty in Chicago
342
00:13:23,672 --> 00:13:26,682
and what might
come out of that.
343
00:13:26,718 --> 00:13:28,068
[camera shutter clicks]
344
00:13:28,111 --> 00:13:29,461
♪
345
00:13:29,504 --> 00:13:31,204
- Damn it.
346
00:13:32,724 --> 00:13:34,344
- One of the brilliant things
about the film
347
00:13:34,378 --> 00:13:37,468
is that he doesn't appear
until 45 minutes into--
348
00:13:37,512 --> 00:13:38,912
into the film.
349
00:13:38,948 --> 00:13:41,688
He's spoken about.
They mytholize him.
350
00:13:41,733 --> 00:13:43,133
- Everybody's scared.
351
00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:47,519
He--he could come right through
these walls, you know.
352
00:13:47,565 --> 00:13:50,125
I-I'm scared.
353
00:13:51,787 --> 00:13:53,567
Scared for my child.
354
00:13:56,270 --> 00:13:58,880
They ain't never gonna
catch him.
355
00:13:58,925 --> 00:14:01,005
- Who?
356
00:14:01,057 --> 00:14:02,707
- Candyman.
357
00:14:02,754 --> 00:14:04,584
- I think some audiences
were troubled
358
00:14:04,626 --> 00:14:06,886
because so many of the people
he killed were black.
359
00:14:06,933 --> 00:14:08,893
So if it was
a straight revenge story,
360
00:14:08,935 --> 00:14:10,065
he would have been
killing nothing
361
00:14:10,110 --> 00:14:11,550
but white people, right?
362
00:14:11,589 --> 00:14:13,719
But the residents
of this project
363
00:14:13,765 --> 00:14:15,935
were also his victims.
364
00:14:15,985 --> 00:14:17,805
- [screaming]
[flesh tearing]
365
00:14:17,857 --> 00:14:19,637
- [grunting]
366
00:14:19,684 --> 00:14:21,164
- If you were to explain,
367
00:14:21,208 --> 00:14:23,468
"Well, it's about
this black dude who was
368
00:14:23,514 --> 00:14:26,744
"murdered for having sex
with a white lady,
369
00:14:26,778 --> 00:14:28,998
"and then he comes back
and hunts the white lady
370
00:14:29,042 --> 00:14:30,742
and lots of other people too,"
you'd be like,
371
00:14:30,782 --> 00:14:32,482
"Nah, I don't think
we're gonna make that movie."
372
00:14:32,523 --> 00:14:34,093
You know what I mean?
But somehow,
373
00:14:34,134 --> 00:14:37,054
through his level
of magnetism and charm,
374
00:14:37,093 --> 00:14:40,013
he manages
to make Candyman someone--
375
00:14:40,053 --> 00:14:42,583
I don't know if they love him,
but who they love to fear.
376
00:14:42,620 --> 00:14:44,410
♪
377
00:14:44,448 --> 00:14:45,928
- Be my victim.
378
00:14:45,972 --> 00:14:47,892
♪
379
00:14:47,930 --> 00:14:49,800
♪
380
00:14:49,845 --> 00:14:52,275
Be my victim.
381
00:14:52,326 --> 00:14:54,236
He's got a passion.
He wants what he wants.
382
00:14:54,284 --> 00:14:56,724
And this
is his unrequited love.
383
00:14:56,765 --> 00:14:58,455
This is the woman
that got away,
384
00:14:58,506 --> 00:15:00,676
the woman that he cherished,
you know?
385
00:15:00,725 --> 00:15:02,805
And it happens to be
in a horrific environment,
386
00:15:02,858 --> 00:15:06,378
but, you know,
he'd do anything for her.
387
00:15:06,427 --> 00:15:08,857
Even kill her
if they can die together.
388
00:15:08,908 --> 00:15:11,778
Your death would be a tale
to frighten children,
389
00:15:11,823 --> 00:15:14,963
to make lovers cling closer
in their rapture.
390
00:15:17,046 --> 00:15:18,786
Come with me
391
00:15:18,830 --> 00:15:20,880
and be immortal.
392
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,440
- [groans painfully]
393
00:15:22,486 --> 00:15:25,486
- I think that mixture
of terror and empathy
394
00:15:25,533 --> 00:15:26,973
is very powerful.
395
00:15:27,013 --> 00:15:28,543
Every great work
of horror fiction
396
00:15:28,579 --> 00:15:30,579
is an exercise
in extreme empathy.
397
00:15:32,105 --> 00:15:35,145
It's about falling in love
with characters
398
00:15:35,195 --> 00:15:37,545
and then staying with them
as they endure the worst.
399
00:15:37,588 --> 00:15:40,588
- [screams]
400
00:15:40,635 --> 00:15:42,715
No!
- And he's an iconic monster.
401
00:15:42,767 --> 00:15:45,117
He had bees
coming out of his mouth.
402
00:15:45,161 --> 00:15:47,081
He had bees all over his face.
403
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,990
- [screams]
404
00:15:49,035 --> 00:15:51,645
- We used over 100,000 bees
on that set.
405
00:15:51,689 --> 00:15:53,559
It was all practicals,
which is--you know,
406
00:15:53,604 --> 00:15:55,914
totally makes a difference.
407
00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:59,565
I think I got maybe 26 stings
408
00:15:59,610 --> 00:16:01,050
altogether,
but they were
409
00:16:01,090 --> 00:16:04,010
an essential part to...
410
00:16:04,050 --> 00:16:06,970
creating the terror
for the situation.
411
00:16:08,184 --> 00:16:09,534
You know,
what happens to a ghost
412
00:16:09,577 --> 00:16:11,317
if he's still living flesh?
413
00:16:11,361 --> 00:16:13,231
Will he be inhabited
by maggots?
414
00:16:13,276 --> 00:16:15,576
Well, then we chose bees
'cause...
415
00:16:15,626 --> 00:16:17,016
they're just that--you know,
416
00:16:17,063 --> 00:16:19,023
every kid is afraid
of a bee sting.
417
00:16:21,241 --> 00:16:23,421
- You know, there's nothing
ambiguous about horror.
418
00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:25,590
Horror is an engine.
419
00:16:25,636 --> 00:16:27,986
It's like
a great white shark.
420
00:16:28,030 --> 00:16:31,120
It has a purpose,
something it wants to do.
421
00:16:31,164 --> 00:16:32,864
It wants to scare you.
422
00:16:32,904 --> 00:16:35,694
And in that way,
that lack of ambiguity
423
00:16:35,733 --> 00:16:38,083
is really freeing
as a filmmaker
424
00:16:38,127 --> 00:16:40,387
'cause you know
what you're trying to do.
425
00:16:40,434 --> 00:16:41,914
[mob chanting angrily]
426
00:16:41,957 --> 00:16:44,307
- Help! Help me!
427
00:16:44,351 --> 00:16:46,011
- It's a beautiful thing
to play with,
428
00:16:46,048 --> 00:16:48,488
and it's even more beautiful
thing when it works.
429
00:16:48,529 --> 00:16:50,659
- [screams]
430
00:16:50,705 --> 00:16:52,315
- Candyman is an icon,
431
00:16:52,359 --> 00:16:55,139
one of the great
supernatural monsters.
432
00:16:55,188 --> 00:16:59,238
But the masked serial killer
was ready to make a comeback
433
00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:01,019
with a postmodern twist.
434
00:17:07,069 --> 00:17:09,509
- Slashers kind of go away
for a while.
435
00:17:09,550 --> 00:17:10,860
Like, once we're sort of
out of weapons...
436
00:17:10,899 --> 00:17:11,939
[chain saw revs]
437
00:17:12,857 --> 00:17:15,157
- [groans painfully]
438
00:17:15,208 --> 00:17:17,208
- I think the public starts
to get bored of it.
439
00:17:17,253 --> 00:17:19,473
- Well, there were so--
and there were so many sequels.
440
00:17:22,563 --> 00:17:24,353
And they were always
diminishing returns.
441
00:17:24,391 --> 00:17:26,391
- Exactly, and they were never
about being scary.
442
00:17:26,436 --> 00:17:27,956
And then "Scream" comes along.
443
00:17:28,003 --> 00:17:30,963
[dramatic music]
444
00:17:31,006 --> 00:17:38,056
♪
445
00:17:38,709 --> 00:17:39,929
- [grunts]
446
00:17:39,971 --> 00:17:42,021
[eerie ambient music]
447
00:17:42,061 --> 00:17:43,801
- My whole goal
when writing "Scream" was,
448
00:17:43,845 --> 00:17:47,495
I wanted a horror movie
to sort of
449
00:17:47,544 --> 00:17:49,814
live and breathe
in a time
450
00:17:49,851 --> 00:17:51,771
where the other horror movies
existed.
451
00:17:51,809 --> 00:17:55,159
- If you were the only suspect
in a senseless bloodbath...
452
00:17:55,204 --> 00:17:57,344
would you be standing
in the horror section?
453
00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:58,770
- Kevin was smart enough
to make it
454
00:17:58,816 --> 00:17:59,986
not about the filmmakers
and the actors
455
00:18:00,035 --> 00:18:01,645
but about the audience.
456
00:18:01,689 --> 00:18:03,649
- "Scream" is the story
of Sidney Prescott.
457
00:18:03,691 --> 00:18:05,391
And it's one year after
458
00:18:05,432 --> 00:18:07,782
the horrific murder
of her mother.
459
00:18:07,825 --> 00:18:09,475
Just when she's about to have
460
00:18:09,523 --> 00:18:11,263
some semblance
of her normal life,
461
00:18:11,307 --> 00:18:13,047
just when she's starting
to trust again
462
00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:14,922
and she's starting
to date again
463
00:18:14,963 --> 00:18:17,103
and she's got her boyfriend,
464
00:18:17,139 --> 00:18:18,659
on the anniversary
of her mother's death,
465
00:18:18,706 --> 00:18:20,136
murders start occurring
466
00:18:20,186 --> 00:18:22,006
as it looks like perhaps
someone takes their love
467
00:18:22,057 --> 00:18:23,447
of scary movies too far.
468
00:18:23,493 --> 00:18:25,673
- [screaming]
469
00:18:26,496 --> 00:18:28,886
- And they start using
horror movie lingo
470
00:18:28,933 --> 00:18:30,893
as a way to stalk
and kill victims.
471
00:18:30,935 --> 00:18:32,755
- You never told me your name.
472
00:18:32,807 --> 00:18:34,417
- Why do you want to know
my name?
473
00:18:34,461 --> 00:18:36,421
- 'Cause I want to know
who I'm looking at.
474
00:18:37,986 --> 00:18:39,636
- What did you say?
475
00:18:39,683 --> 00:18:42,163
- The opening of "Scream"
is so iconic at this point.
476
00:18:42,208 --> 00:18:44,208
And it's so masterfully done.
477
00:18:44,253 --> 00:18:46,603
That is Wes Craven
at the height of his career.
478
00:18:46,647 --> 00:18:48,687
- It happens. Take it easy.
479
00:18:51,347 --> 00:18:53,127
[telephone rings]
480
00:18:53,175 --> 00:18:55,955
- The thing about Wes Craven
is that the scary stuff
481
00:18:56,004 --> 00:18:57,704
comes instinctive to him.
482
00:18:57,745 --> 00:18:59,745
And I think he has
a really great eye
483
00:18:59,790 --> 00:19:02,840
and a sensibility to stage it
and to craft it.
484
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,880
The tracking shots
behind Drew Barrymore
485
00:19:05,927 --> 00:19:07,837
as she just sort of walks
through this very--
486
00:19:07,885 --> 00:19:10,755
this shadowed house and she
moves in and out of light,
487
00:19:10,801 --> 00:19:12,411
it beautifully sets the pace.
488
00:19:12,455 --> 00:19:14,015
You know,
when to dutch the angle,
489
00:19:14,065 --> 00:19:15,885
when to--you know,
when to pull back,
490
00:19:15,937 --> 00:19:17,847
when to go wide,
when to go close.
491
00:19:20,159 --> 00:19:21,599
- The interesting thing
about that is,
492
00:19:21,638 --> 00:19:23,508
you have--
at that time, certainly--
493
00:19:23,553 --> 00:19:26,253
your most famous cast member
494
00:19:26,295 --> 00:19:27,775
dying right away.
495
00:19:27,818 --> 00:19:29,558
So it really sort of tells
an audience,
496
00:19:29,603 --> 00:19:33,083
"You have no idea
what to expect."
497
00:19:33,128 --> 00:19:34,738
When I auditioned for it,
498
00:19:34,782 --> 00:19:37,392
there were two
very different scenes.
499
00:19:37,437 --> 00:19:39,607
There was one of this loving,
caring boyfriend,
500
00:19:39,656 --> 00:19:42,176
and then there was one
of this psychopath.
501
00:19:42,224 --> 00:19:44,234
[eerie ambient music]
502
00:19:44,270 --> 00:19:46,270
We all go a little mad
sometimes.
503
00:19:46,315 --> 00:19:47,965
- No, Billy!
- Oh, [bleep].
504
00:19:48,012 --> 00:19:49,192
[gunshot]
- [screams]
505
00:19:49,231 --> 00:19:51,321
- Wes really wanted
to see
506
00:19:51,364 --> 00:19:54,064
somebody who could--
who could convincingly play
507
00:19:54,105 --> 00:19:55,535
both sides of that.
508
00:19:56,717 --> 00:19:58,197
- [crying]
509
00:20:01,287 --> 00:20:02,937
- Billy's the killer.
510
00:20:02,984 --> 00:20:04,864
And you got to believe fully
that he's the killer
511
00:20:04,899 --> 00:20:06,989
so much so that you go,
"Oh, there's no way
512
00:20:07,031 --> 00:20:08,211
he's the killer."
513
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:11,859
- I wanted to sort of take
the genre, rip it apart,
514
00:20:11,906 --> 00:20:13,076
open it up.
515
00:20:13,124 --> 00:20:14,264
- There's a formula to it,
516
00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:16,040
a very simple formula.
517
00:20:16,084 --> 00:20:17,784
Everybody's a suspect.
518
00:20:17,825 --> 00:20:19,735
- When you talk about
the tone of "Scream,"
519
00:20:19,783 --> 00:20:21,613
I think what
he's so successful at
520
00:20:21,655 --> 00:20:25,265
is balancing that horror comedy
that we don't see so often
521
00:20:25,311 --> 00:20:26,441
pulled off very well.
522
00:20:26,486 --> 00:20:27,916
- Damn little [...].
523
00:20:27,965 --> 00:20:29,745
- What'd you call me?
524
00:20:29,793 --> 00:20:31,363
Huh?
- Not you, Fred.
525
00:20:31,404 --> 00:20:33,324
- I was quite against it
at the time.
526
00:20:33,362 --> 00:20:36,022
I thought, "Wow, I thought
I was in a documentary
527
00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:37,150
"about a serial killer
528
00:20:37,192 --> 00:20:38,852
"and they're playing this,
529
00:20:38,889 --> 00:20:40,369
you know, for laughs."
530
00:20:40,413 --> 00:20:42,633
[metal groans]
531
00:20:42,676 --> 00:20:44,196
- Wes found the right balance
and the tone
532
00:20:44,243 --> 00:20:45,683
through the editorial process,
533
00:20:45,722 --> 00:20:47,252
but I do remember
we were like,
534
00:20:47,289 --> 00:20:49,069
"Should he be falling down
that much?"
535
00:20:49,117 --> 00:20:52,027
He's kind of, like,
the clumsiest killer alive.
536
00:20:52,076 --> 00:20:53,596
And we were always
worried about
537
00:20:53,643 --> 00:20:54,733
that skirt he was wearing,
you know,
538
00:20:54,775 --> 00:20:55,855
how silly that would look.
539
00:20:55,906 --> 00:20:58,206
But it all seemed to work out.
540
00:20:58,257 --> 00:21:01,127
- Yeah, at the beginning,
they wanted me to come meet
541
00:21:01,172 --> 00:21:03,312
for Skeet's role, Billy.
542
00:21:03,349 --> 00:21:04,479
- I didn't do anything.
543
00:21:04,524 --> 00:21:06,004
- Do you wish to give up
your right
544
00:21:06,047 --> 00:21:07,657
to speak to an attorney
and have him present...
545
00:21:07,701 --> 00:21:10,271
But the role of Dewey,
I thought it was so funny.
546
00:21:10,312 --> 00:21:11,492
He was written as, like,
547
00:21:11,531 --> 00:21:14,451
this big, buff, like,
meathead.
548
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:16,280
And I was like,
"I think I could bring
549
00:21:16,318 --> 00:21:18,928
a different meathead
quality to it."
550
00:21:18,973 --> 00:21:20,983
- People treat me like
551
00:21:21,018 --> 00:21:23,928
I'm the antichrist
of television journalism.
552
00:21:23,978 --> 00:21:25,328
- I don't think
you're that bad.
553
00:21:25,371 --> 00:21:26,681
- No?
554
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:27,760
- My favorite part
about working
555
00:21:27,808 --> 00:21:28,978
on the "Scream" movies
556
00:21:29,026 --> 00:21:31,676
was working with Wes Craven.
557
00:21:31,725 --> 00:21:33,675
You meet few people
in this world that are--
558
00:21:33,727 --> 00:21:36,687
turn out to be your heroes,
like, living heroes.
559
00:21:36,730 --> 00:21:39,080
And he held himself
like a professor.
560
00:21:39,123 --> 00:21:41,263
He was a really
intelligent guy.
561
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:44,690
But he'd say things like,
"Well, that was horrible.
562
00:21:44,738 --> 00:21:46,258
You wanna try it again?"
563
00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:47,955
- You really have to respect
your audience.
564
00:21:48,002 --> 00:21:51,012
You have to know these kids
are damn smart, you know?
565
00:21:51,048 --> 00:21:52,698
The wonderful thing
about the "Scream" series
566
00:21:52,746 --> 00:21:54,786
was that Kevin Williamson
567
00:21:54,835 --> 00:21:56,355
said, "Yeah, I've seen
all the movies too,
568
00:21:56,402 --> 00:21:57,582
"and let's talk about them,
but this is not
569
00:21:57,620 --> 00:21:59,100
like that," you know?
570
00:21:59,143 --> 00:22:00,623
- Help me, please.
I'm at Stu Macher's house
571
00:22:00,667 --> 00:22:03,097
on Turner Lane.
It's 261 Turner Lane.
572
00:22:03,147 --> 00:22:04,887
Please, he's gonna try
and kill me.
573
00:22:04,932 --> 00:22:06,192
- [yells]
574
00:22:06,237 --> 00:22:08,497
- These movies get a bad rap
575
00:22:08,544 --> 00:22:10,814
for sort of being antifeminist
and misogynistic
576
00:22:10,851 --> 00:22:12,681
because they are, you know?
577
00:22:12,722 --> 00:22:15,332
And--and--and--
or they have been.
578
00:22:15,377 --> 00:22:17,207
You know, what's great
about genre today is,
579
00:22:17,248 --> 00:22:18,548
we can change all of that.
580
00:22:18,598 --> 00:22:20,638
We don't have to sort of
adhere to,
581
00:22:20,687 --> 00:22:22,077
you know, the rules.
582
00:22:22,123 --> 00:22:24,473
In the '70s and '80s,
583
00:22:24,517 --> 00:22:26,867
if a girl had sex, she--
584
00:22:26,910 --> 00:22:28,390
the rule was,
she had to die.
585
00:22:28,434 --> 00:22:30,264
- There are certain rules
586
00:22:30,305 --> 00:22:31,825
that one must abide by
587
00:22:31,872 --> 00:22:33,962
in order to successfully
survive a horror movie.
588
00:22:34,004 --> 00:22:37,794
For instance, number one,
you can never have sex.
589
00:22:37,834 --> 00:22:39,844
[all booing]
590
00:22:41,098 --> 00:22:42,398
- We allowed her to have sex.
591
00:22:42,448 --> 00:22:45,098
So you're almost ensuring
she's gonna die.
592
00:22:46,277 --> 00:22:47,317
But not in this movie.
593
00:22:47,366 --> 00:22:48,366
- [screams painfully]
594
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:52,940
- Right up to
the very, very end
595
00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:54,070
where she's like,
this is the moment
596
00:22:54,111 --> 00:22:55,291
where the killer...
597
00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:56,590
- Comes back to life
598
00:22:56,636 --> 00:22:58,156
for one last scare.
599
00:22:58,202 --> 00:22:59,292
- And she just ain't
gonna have it.
600
00:22:59,334 --> 00:23:01,344
- [gasps]
[gunshot]
601
00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:03,080
- It was just another way
602
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,430
to dismiss those old notions
of the final girl
603
00:23:05,471 --> 00:23:07,121
and so that we can move
our heroine
604
00:23:07,168 --> 00:23:08,428
into sort of a new place.
605
00:23:08,474 --> 00:23:10,694
- Not in my movie.
606
00:23:10,737 --> 00:23:12,647
- Horror gets a visceral
reaction out of people.
607
00:23:12,695 --> 00:23:14,565
And it's always...
608
00:23:14,610 --> 00:23:17,660
looked down upon by critics
to this day.
609
00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:19,310
It astounds me.
610
00:23:19,354 --> 00:23:23,584
Horror starts from kind of
a minus 25 position
611
00:23:23,619 --> 00:23:25,839
and has to claw its way
upwards.
612
00:23:25,882 --> 00:23:29,452
It's fun to turn that
on its head.
613
00:23:29,495 --> 00:23:31,235
I think where
that anarchistic sense
614
00:23:31,279 --> 00:23:33,189
of wanting people
to burn the theater down
615
00:23:33,237 --> 00:23:35,407
comes from wanting
to show people,
616
00:23:35,457 --> 00:23:37,457
like,
what horror can really do.
617
00:23:37,503 --> 00:23:39,333
- Good evening, Clarice.
618
00:23:39,374 --> 00:23:41,124
- If you hate us
and you think we're bad,
619
00:23:41,158 --> 00:23:43,288
then I'm really
gonna go for it.
620
00:23:43,334 --> 00:23:46,034
- [screams]
- [groaning painfully]
621
00:23:49,602 --> 00:23:52,172
- A census taker
once tried to test me.
622
00:23:52,213 --> 00:23:55,523
I ate his liver
with some fava beans
623
00:23:55,564 --> 00:23:58,874
and a nice Chianti.
624
00:23:58,915 --> 00:24:00,475
[slurping]
625
00:24:00,526 --> 00:24:04,006
- "Silence of the Lambs"
is a perfect film.
626
00:24:04,051 --> 00:24:08,361
It kind of shirked
the in-your-face
627
00:24:08,403 --> 00:24:11,493
occasionally vulgarities
of the horror genre
628
00:24:11,537 --> 00:24:15,497
and painted them
with a much finer brush
629
00:24:15,541 --> 00:24:20,071
that made it a story
that was about being human
630
00:24:20,110 --> 00:24:22,290
as opposed to a story
that was
631
00:24:22,330 --> 00:24:24,770
about the horrors
of the world.
632
00:24:24,811 --> 00:24:27,681
- What is your worst memory
of childhood?
633
00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:31,250
- Death of my father.
634
00:24:31,295 --> 00:24:33,375
- Horror is a ghetto
as far as
635
00:24:33,428 --> 00:24:35,078
the film industry is concerned,
636
00:24:35,125 --> 00:24:37,995
but "Silence of the Lambs"
changed everything.
637
00:24:38,041 --> 00:24:40,831
It suddenly was not only
big box office
638
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:44,180
and not only horrific
but respected.
639
00:24:44,221 --> 00:24:46,351
You have
Sir Anthony Hopkins...
640
00:24:46,397 --> 00:24:48,877
- I'll help you catch him,
Clarice.
641
00:24:48,922 --> 00:24:53,062
- You had Jonathan Demme,
a great, admired director,
642
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:57,930
dipping their toes
into really unsavory material
643
00:24:57,974 --> 00:25:00,284
but done in such
a highly polished
644
00:25:00,324 --> 00:25:02,944
and Hollywood style
that you could not
645
00:25:02,979 --> 00:25:06,899
deny the power of it
and the intelligence of it.
646
00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:08,550
- There's things we need
to do for her.
647
00:25:08,594 --> 00:25:10,384
I know that y'all
brought her this far
648
00:25:10,421 --> 00:25:12,341
and that her folks would
thank you if they could
649
00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:15,820
for your--for your kindness
and your sensitivity.
650
00:25:15,862 --> 00:25:18,082
Now, please, go on now.
Let us take care of her.
651
00:25:19,605 --> 00:25:21,035
Go on now.
652
00:25:21,084 --> 00:25:23,134
- I think,
with "Silence of the Lambs,"
653
00:25:23,173 --> 00:25:25,573
having a fantastic
female protagonist
654
00:25:25,611 --> 00:25:28,181
that is brought to life
by Jodie Foster
655
00:25:28,222 --> 00:25:30,662
gave it a life
that allowed people
656
00:25:30,703 --> 00:25:32,753
who do not appreciate
the horror genre
657
00:25:32,792 --> 00:25:34,792
to appreciate
that performance.
658
00:25:34,837 --> 00:25:37,537
And that performance
was the introduction
659
00:25:37,579 --> 00:25:39,489
for a lot of people who are
uncomfortable with horror
660
00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:41,708
to actually step back
and enjoy it.
661
00:25:41,757 --> 00:25:44,057
[mysterious music]
662
00:25:44,107 --> 00:25:46,497
- Jonathan mentioned to me
663
00:25:46,545 --> 00:25:48,155
that perhaps
664
00:25:48,198 --> 00:25:50,198
the Clarice Starling character,
665
00:25:50,244 --> 00:25:52,294
the Jodie Foster character,
666
00:25:52,333 --> 00:25:56,163
was in a way so central
to the nature of the film
667
00:25:56,206 --> 00:25:59,336
that the music could reflect
her character
668
00:25:59,383 --> 00:26:02,873
and be a point of view
through her eyes.
669
00:26:02,909 --> 00:26:05,869
[suspenseful music]
670
00:26:05,912 --> 00:26:12,962
♪
671
00:26:13,528 --> 00:26:15,878
Generally, that type of film
672
00:26:15,922 --> 00:26:19,492
might have focused more
on the monster,
673
00:26:19,534 --> 00:26:21,544
the Lecter character,
and I think,
674
00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:24,320
by switching that up
in that film,
675
00:26:24,365 --> 00:26:27,455
it humanized the story in a way
676
00:26:27,498 --> 00:26:30,108
that, I think, broadened
the appeal of it.
677
00:26:30,153 --> 00:26:31,983
♪
678
00:26:32,025 --> 00:26:34,285
- Senator Martin.
679
00:26:34,331 --> 00:26:36,861
Dr. Hannibal Lecter.
680
00:26:36,899 --> 00:26:39,079
♪
681
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,209
- I mean, Anthony Hopkins,
my God,
682
00:26:41,251 --> 00:26:42,561
what an iconic performance.
683
00:26:42,601 --> 00:26:43,951
- [screams]
684
00:26:43,993 --> 00:26:46,783
[blows thudding]
685
00:26:46,822 --> 00:26:49,782
[soaring classical music]
686
00:26:49,825 --> 00:26:52,125
♪
687
00:26:52,175 --> 00:26:56,655
- Hannibal Lecter
is the most terrifying villain
688
00:26:56,702 --> 00:26:58,442
ever put on-screen,
689
00:26:58,486 --> 00:27:01,786
and he is in that film
for about 14 minutes.
690
00:27:01,837 --> 00:27:03,967
He's barely in it at all.
691
00:27:04,013 --> 00:27:06,583
- [gasping painfully]
692
00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:11,105
[classical piano music
playing]
693
00:27:11,151 --> 00:27:14,981
- We only see slightly more
of him than we see
694
00:27:15,024 --> 00:27:17,334
of the shark in "Jaws."
695
00:27:17,374 --> 00:27:19,904
[suspenseful music]
696
00:27:19,942 --> 00:27:23,212
And both pictures sort of
bring home the idea
697
00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:25,030
that what we can't see
is scarier
698
00:27:25,078 --> 00:27:26,558
than what we can.
699
00:27:26,601 --> 00:27:28,171
And that's tremendously
effective.
700
00:27:28,211 --> 00:27:31,911
- [panicked breathing]
701
00:27:31,954 --> 00:27:33,564
- There are
these moments where
702
00:27:33,608 --> 00:27:34,908
something plays different
for white people
703
00:27:34,957 --> 00:27:36,607
than it does for black people.
704
00:27:36,655 --> 00:27:38,345
Hannibal Lecter,
he's a psychopath.
705
00:27:38,395 --> 00:27:40,395
He's a white psychopath,
706
00:27:40,441 --> 00:27:44,621
but for some reason it's, like,
"Yo, that mother[bleep] cold."
707
00:27:44,663 --> 00:27:46,143
- [screams]
708
00:27:46,186 --> 00:27:47,446
- "This mother[bleep]
eating a face?
709
00:27:47,491 --> 00:27:49,101
"Oh.
710
00:27:49,145 --> 00:27:50,485
"That's [bleep] right there.
711
00:27:50,538 --> 00:27:51,838
"That [bleep]
is Hannibal Lecter.
712
00:27:51,887 --> 00:27:53,717
"That's my [bleep]
right there.
713
00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:57,069
"That's--if I'm anybody
in this movie, I'm him.
714
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:59,070
"I'm not the [bleep]
who got his face eaten.
715
00:27:59,112 --> 00:28:00,422
I'm Hannibal Lecter."
716
00:28:00,461 --> 00:28:02,771
- What became of your lamb,
Clarice?
717
00:28:03,856 --> 00:28:05,726
- It came out in February,
718
00:28:05,771 --> 00:28:08,731
and it played right through
the year.
719
00:28:08,774 --> 00:28:10,344
It was one of those films
that just
720
00:28:10,384 --> 00:28:12,564
gathered momentum
week by week.
721
00:28:12,603 --> 00:28:15,223
And it won five Oscars.
722
00:28:15,258 --> 00:28:16,738
- When "Silence of the Lambs"
723
00:28:16,782 --> 00:28:18,612
was nominated
for Best Picture,
724
00:28:18,653 --> 00:28:21,263
nobody wanted
to call it a horror film.
725
00:28:21,308 --> 00:28:23,568
You know, all the press
stayed away from the fact
726
00:28:23,614 --> 00:28:25,884
that "Silence of the Lambs"
is really a horror film.
727
00:28:25,921 --> 00:28:27,271
It's a slasher film.
728
00:28:27,314 --> 00:28:28,754
- Uh, get in the truck.
729
00:28:28,794 --> 00:28:31,754
And I want to push it
all the way up.
730
00:28:31,797 --> 00:28:33,537
I really appreciate this.
731
00:28:33,581 --> 00:28:35,411
- But a slasher film
as Best Picture?
732
00:28:35,452 --> 00:28:37,412
No, can't do that.
733
00:28:37,454 --> 00:28:40,634
It was an example
of what can be done
734
00:28:40,675 --> 00:28:44,715
with the genre
when it's done just right.
735
00:28:44,766 --> 00:28:47,676
- Hey--hey, are you
about a size 14?
736
00:28:47,726 --> 00:28:49,506
- Sorry?
[blow lands]
737
00:28:49,553 --> 00:28:51,253
[gasps painfully]
738
00:28:53,949 --> 00:28:55,389
- What is that people love
about going
739
00:28:55,429 --> 00:28:56,779
to see horror movies?
740
00:28:56,822 --> 00:28:58,482
- I think what
we love about it
741
00:28:58,519 --> 00:28:59,649
and what the average person
loves about it,
742
00:28:59,694 --> 00:29:01,354
I think, is different.
743
00:29:02,653 --> 00:29:04,393
We'd see a
"Texas Chainsaw Massacre,"
744
00:29:04,438 --> 00:29:06,268
"Dawn of the Dead,"
I go, "I wanna live there.
745
00:29:06,309 --> 00:29:07,789
I wanna live
inside this movie."
746
00:29:07,833 --> 00:29:09,703
- "I want to re-create this
in my house."
747
00:29:09,748 --> 00:29:11,528
- And essentially we did
do that, right?
748
00:29:11,575 --> 00:29:12,785
- Right. Yeah.
749
00:29:12,838 --> 00:29:13,838
- But I think,
for the average person,
750
00:29:13,882 --> 00:29:15,542
it's like, you can
751
00:29:15,579 --> 00:29:17,889
safely experience
something demented.
752
00:29:17,930 --> 00:29:21,240
- It's also coming to grips
with our own mortality.
753
00:29:21,281 --> 00:29:23,111
Maybe there's
some weird catharsis
754
00:29:23,152 --> 00:29:25,942
of, like, "Okay, well,
thank God my death
755
00:29:25,981 --> 00:29:29,201
"could never nearly be as bad
as what I just saw,
756
00:29:29,245 --> 00:29:30,855
"so maybe it's not so bad.
757
00:29:30,899 --> 00:29:33,209
Maybe I'm just gonna
fall asleep..."
758
00:29:33,249 --> 00:29:35,949
- I think it's all dealing
with the fear of death.
759
00:29:35,991 --> 00:29:37,731
After 9/11,
760
00:29:37,776 --> 00:29:40,866
fear escalated to nearly
unbearable levels.
761
00:29:40,909 --> 00:29:42,389
- [gasping]
762
00:29:42,432 --> 00:29:44,302
- And that fear
was reflected in movies
763
00:29:44,347 --> 00:29:47,047
that dared us
not to turn away.
764
00:29:48,787 --> 00:29:50,437
- I want to play a game.
765
00:29:54,009 --> 00:29:55,969
- People always ask me,
766
00:29:56,011 --> 00:29:57,361
"How do you make
a horror film scary?"
767
00:29:57,404 --> 00:29:58,884
And I think that
the only common thread
768
00:29:58,927 --> 00:30:01,357
that I've found is when
769
00:30:01,408 --> 00:30:03,368
the filmmaker, the director,
770
00:30:03,410 --> 00:30:05,370
is truly terrified
by the subject matter.
771
00:30:05,412 --> 00:30:08,812
- [gasping, coughing]
772
00:30:08,850 --> 00:30:10,850
- You can tell when other
people are phoning in
773
00:30:10,896 --> 00:30:12,546
and trying to imitate a genre.
774
00:30:12,593 --> 00:30:15,383
And you can tell
when someone loves it.
775
00:30:16,902 --> 00:30:19,212
- I met James Wan
at film school.
776
00:30:19,252 --> 00:30:20,952
We both loved horror movies.
777
00:30:20,993 --> 00:30:23,393
We were both obsessed
with "The Evil Dead"
778
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:25,040
and Dario Argento
779
00:30:25,084 --> 00:30:26,694
and "The Shining"
and all the rest of it.
780
00:30:26,737 --> 00:30:28,647
We realized we should team up
781
00:30:28,696 --> 00:30:30,916
and try to make a movie
with our own money.
782
00:30:30,959 --> 00:30:32,739
And so we figured out
that the cheapest thing
783
00:30:32,787 --> 00:30:35,697
we could do would be
two actors in one room.
784
00:30:35,746 --> 00:30:37,916
Finally, we hit upon
the idea for "Saw."
785
00:30:37,966 --> 00:30:40,656
[electricity surging]
- Ahh.
786
00:30:42,405 --> 00:30:45,495
- "Saw" is about two men
who wake up
787
00:30:45,539 --> 00:30:49,109
chained to the wall
in this dilapidated,
788
00:30:49,151 --> 00:30:51,681
dirty bathroom, basically.
789
00:30:51,719 --> 00:30:53,979
They don't know
how they got there.
790
00:30:54,026 --> 00:30:56,456
But lying between them
is a dead body.
791
00:30:58,987 --> 00:31:01,687
And they find out
that they've been put there
792
00:31:01,729 --> 00:31:04,299
by a sadistic serial killer
793
00:31:04,340 --> 00:31:08,340
who forces people to play games
for their lives.
794
00:31:08,388 --> 00:31:12,168
- John Kramer is
a mechanical engineer.
795
00:31:12,218 --> 00:31:14,308
He's an architect.
796
00:31:14,350 --> 00:31:16,610
He is somewhat
of a philosopher.
797
00:31:16,657 --> 00:31:20,617
He is a master at prosthetics,
798
00:31:20,661 --> 00:31:23,361
a bit of a magician of sorts,
799
00:31:23,403 --> 00:31:27,673
And with John, what you see
is often not what you get.
800
00:31:27,711 --> 00:31:30,801
- Whoever brought us here
could have killed us by now.
801
00:31:30,845 --> 00:31:32,925
But they didn't.
802
00:31:32,978 --> 00:31:34,848
They must want something
from us.
803
00:31:34,893 --> 00:31:36,683
- You got Leigh over here,
804
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,720
and you got Carry Elwes
over here,
805
00:31:38,766 --> 00:31:40,286
and you got this guy
in the middle
806
00:31:40,333 --> 00:31:42,513
and this strength
and this silence.
807
00:31:42,552 --> 00:31:46,302
But I always felt
his centralness to this story.
808
00:31:47,209 --> 00:31:48,209
- [muffled gasp]
809
00:31:49,124 --> 00:31:50,564
- The way that I see Jigsaw
810
00:31:50,604 --> 00:31:53,614
is kind of the Zen master
of sadism.
811
00:31:53,650 --> 00:31:55,740
- Hello, Amanda.
812
00:31:55,783 --> 00:31:56,963
You don't know me,
813
00:31:57,002 --> 00:31:59,702
but I know you.
814
00:31:59,743 --> 00:32:01,443
I want to play a game.
815
00:32:01,484 --> 00:32:03,184
- His mission, of course,
is to
816
00:32:03,225 --> 00:32:07,525
help people to see
the value of life.
817
00:32:07,577 --> 00:32:10,407
And whether we think
his methods are appropriate
818
00:32:10,450 --> 00:32:12,230
or not, that's a different
story altogether.
819
00:32:12,278 --> 00:32:13,538
- My family!
820
00:32:13,583 --> 00:32:15,413
- [screams]
[gunshot]
821
00:32:15,455 --> 00:32:18,145
- There was something
about watching human behavior
822
00:32:18,197 --> 00:32:20,327
in extreme circumstances
in "Saw,"
823
00:32:20,373 --> 00:32:21,943
and I think--
and I thought to myself,
824
00:32:21,983 --> 00:32:24,333
"Well, could I saw off my leg
if I had to?
825
00:32:24,377 --> 00:32:26,247
"Would I do it?
How would I do it?
826
00:32:26,292 --> 00:32:27,732
Could I do it?"
827
00:32:27,771 --> 00:32:30,301
- [grunting painfully]
828
00:32:30,339 --> 00:32:31,599
- [screaming]
829
00:32:31,645 --> 00:32:33,125
When you don't have
a big star
830
00:32:33,168 --> 00:32:35,298
in the lead role
and you don't have the money
831
00:32:35,344 --> 00:32:36,784
for special effects,
832
00:32:36,824 --> 00:32:38,654
the only thing you have
going for you
833
00:32:38,695 --> 00:32:41,255
is that question,
"What's gonna happen next?"
834
00:32:41,307 --> 00:32:43,527
What are you doing?
835
00:32:43,570 --> 00:32:47,660
Both James and I always loved
really great...
836
00:32:47,704 --> 00:32:49,974
twist endings
that made you go back
837
00:32:50,011 --> 00:32:52,271
and reexamine the movie.
838
00:32:52,318 --> 00:32:54,538
We really thought
we had something good.
839
00:32:54,581 --> 00:32:58,371
- I think I was there
about 12 or 13 days,
840
00:32:58,411 --> 00:33:01,721
Lying in this pool of blood
on the bathroom floor.
841
00:33:01,762 --> 00:33:05,592
You're quite convinced
that he's where he is,
842
00:33:05,635 --> 00:33:08,935
and you forget about it
in some way.
843
00:33:10,249 --> 00:33:12,469
- The biggest reaction
that I think
844
00:33:12,512 --> 00:33:15,042
I've had in my career
was the ending of "Saw,"
845
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,910
that ending when he stands up
off the floor.
846
00:33:17,952 --> 00:33:20,042
- Which is one of the reasons
why I did the film,
847
00:33:20,085 --> 00:33:22,995
'cause I thought it would be
a remarkable moment.
848
00:33:23,044 --> 00:33:26,404
It was worth doing
just for that moment.
849
00:33:26,439 --> 00:33:28,749
- And to actually physically
see people lose their mind
850
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:30,569
and yell at the screen...
851
00:33:30,617 --> 00:33:32,447
I mean, people would just be
shouting, like, "No way!
852
00:33:32,488 --> 00:33:34,138
No way!"
853
00:33:34,186 --> 00:33:36,006
So that was the best feeling,
854
00:33:36,057 --> 00:33:38,277
you know, we could have
ever had.
855
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,840
[tense music]
856
00:33:39,887 --> 00:33:43,797
- The last thing he says
before he closes the door
857
00:33:43,847 --> 00:33:45,587
to leave, he says,
"Some people..."
858
00:33:45,632 --> 00:33:48,812
Are so ungrateful
to be alive.
859
00:33:50,158 --> 00:33:52,118
But not you.
860
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,340
Not anymore.
861
00:33:54,380 --> 00:33:55,510
- [screams]
862
00:33:55,555 --> 00:33:57,945
- Game over.
- [screams]
863
00:33:57,992 --> 00:33:59,342
[screams]
864
00:33:59,385 --> 00:34:02,075
To me, "Saw"
is that original film,
865
00:34:02,127 --> 00:34:04,257
and then all the other movies,
they sit over here,
866
00:34:04,303 --> 00:34:07,483
and then the original film,
to me, sits on its own.
867
00:34:10,178 --> 00:34:12,348
- The later "Saws," yeah,
they became more--
868
00:34:12,398 --> 00:34:14,438
more about the torture,
but really they were
869
00:34:14,487 --> 00:34:16,877
torture about people
who deserved it.
870
00:34:16,924 --> 00:34:18,804
The "Saw" movies,
it's the bad guys
871
00:34:18,839 --> 00:34:20,409
who are being tortured.
872
00:34:20,449 --> 00:34:22,279
- According to your policy,
873
00:34:22,321 --> 00:34:25,541
your secretary
is older and weaker
874
00:34:25,585 --> 00:34:29,195
and therefore less worthy
to survive.
875
00:34:29,241 --> 00:34:31,241
- By, I think it was "Saw 6,"
876
00:34:31,286 --> 00:34:34,766
where they're going
after insurance companies
877
00:34:34,811 --> 00:34:38,121
that have denied people
their claims, and--
878
00:34:38,163 --> 00:34:40,083
I don't know--
maybe they kind of deserve it
879
00:34:40,121 --> 00:34:41,951
in the world of that movie.
880
00:34:41,992 --> 00:34:43,342
- [screams]
881
00:34:43,385 --> 00:34:45,685
- I've had skateboarders,
12-year-olds,
882
00:34:45,735 --> 00:34:48,035
come up to me,
groups of them, and say,
883
00:34:48,086 --> 00:34:49,696
"Yeah, we love those movies."
884
00:34:49,739 --> 00:34:51,869
You have one minute
to pull the fishhook
885
00:34:51,915 --> 00:34:55,085
from her stomach
and unlock her device.
886
00:34:55,136 --> 00:34:57,436
And I say, "Yeah, really?
Why? Why do you love 'em?"
887
00:34:57,486 --> 00:34:59,266
And they say, "Because...
888
00:34:59,314 --> 00:35:01,144
they teach you stuff."
889
00:35:01,186 --> 00:35:02,966
I said, "Like what?"
890
00:35:03,013 --> 00:35:05,103
They say, "Well, like, to--
that you need
891
00:35:05,146 --> 00:35:06,666
to appreciate your life."
892
00:35:06,713 --> 00:35:09,113
- [screaming]
- No!
893
00:35:09,150 --> 00:35:11,020
- And they're not talking
about the traps.
894
00:35:11,065 --> 00:35:12,675
They're not talking
about the blood.
895
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,899
They're talking about concepts
896
00:35:14,938 --> 00:35:17,898
that resonate in the film.
897
00:35:17,941 --> 00:35:21,511
[all gasping]
898
00:35:21,554 --> 00:35:24,564
So when you get
this little germ
899
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,780
of an idea, of a thought,
900
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:28,950
when it's surrounded
by that kind of intensity,
901
00:35:28,996 --> 00:35:32,646
it makes the germ resonate
in a certain way.
902
00:35:32,695 --> 00:35:36,525
[bone cracking]
- [screaming]
903
00:35:36,569 --> 00:35:39,749
- One of the issues with
the "Saw" movies--
904
00:35:39,789 --> 00:35:41,489
and you can take it
however you want--
905
00:35:41,530 --> 00:35:44,100
is the fact that we invented
a whole new term,
906
00:35:44,142 --> 00:35:45,402
"torture porn."
907
00:35:48,146 --> 00:35:50,056
[gears grinding]
908
00:35:50,104 --> 00:35:51,544
- [gasping]
909
00:35:52,541 --> 00:35:55,761
- But we invented it
at the very same time
910
00:35:55,805 --> 00:35:58,415
America, as a nation,
911
00:35:58,460 --> 00:36:00,590
was under world indictment
912
00:36:00,636 --> 00:36:02,986
for actually torturing people.
913
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:05,990
[dramatic music]
914
00:36:06,033 --> 00:36:13,003
♪
915
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,130
- The torture porn cycle
of horror films
916
00:36:16,174 --> 00:36:20,224
is strongly linked
to the height of what
917
00:36:20,265 --> 00:36:22,565
George W. Bush termed
the War on Terror.
918
00:36:22,615 --> 00:36:24,135
- This crusade.
919
00:36:26,401 --> 00:36:28,491
- Use any means
at our disposal.
920
00:36:28,534 --> 00:36:31,104
- This war on terrorism.
921
00:36:31,145 --> 00:36:32,535
♪
922
00:36:32,581 --> 00:36:34,241
- The torture porn cycle
is kind of
923
00:36:34,279 --> 00:36:36,019
the cycle of the extreme
horror movie,
924
00:36:36,063 --> 00:36:38,073
the "can you not look away?"
925
00:36:38,108 --> 00:36:40,848
- [screaming]
926
00:36:40,894 --> 00:36:43,294
- "Can you believe how far
they're taking this?
927
00:36:43,331 --> 00:36:45,641
Can you handle it?"
928
00:36:45,681 --> 00:36:46,811
- [screaming]
929
00:36:46,856 --> 00:36:48,416
- And I think it really kind of
930
00:36:48,467 --> 00:36:50,427
was crystallized with "Hostel."
931
00:36:52,384 --> 00:36:53,784
A lot of people say
it started with "Saw."
932
00:36:53,820 --> 00:36:55,260
I think the original "Saw"
933
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:57,740
plays more as
a thriller horror movie
934
00:36:57,780 --> 00:36:59,260
than a torture porn movie.
935
00:36:59,304 --> 00:37:01,574
[chain saw revs]
936
00:37:01,610 --> 00:37:03,400
- Hostel becomes
a little bit more
937
00:37:03,438 --> 00:37:05,958
of the "how much can you stand
to watch?"
938
00:37:10,706 --> 00:37:13,006
- When we started making
our movies,
939
00:37:13,056 --> 00:37:14,926
the term "torture porn"
came out.
940
00:37:14,971 --> 00:37:16,841
- I'll credit--
I'll give you that one.
941
00:37:16,886 --> 00:37:18,186
[laughter]
942
00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:19,626
- All right,
I'll take that one.
943
00:37:19,672 --> 00:37:21,282
[chain saw revs]
944
00:37:21,326 --> 00:37:23,276
- [screaming]
945
00:37:23,328 --> 00:37:24,888
- One of the things
about torture porn
946
00:37:24,938 --> 00:37:28,028
is that we are no longer afraid
of bogeymen.
947
00:37:28,071 --> 00:37:30,901
Michael and Jason
and those characters
948
00:37:30,944 --> 00:37:32,864
lost a certain currency.
949
00:37:32,902 --> 00:37:35,732
And what really strikes fear,
950
00:37:35,775 --> 00:37:38,035
particularly in
the United States
951
00:37:38,081 --> 00:37:40,691
in a post-9/11 moment,
is other people.
952
00:37:40,736 --> 00:37:43,216
Other people are frightening.
953
00:37:43,261 --> 00:37:45,261
- You're not going?
954
00:37:45,306 --> 00:37:46,956
- I've seen this show.
955
00:37:47,003 --> 00:37:49,793
- The "Hostel" franchise
speaks truth to power
956
00:37:49,832 --> 00:37:52,662
and presents Americans
in the way
957
00:37:52,705 --> 00:37:55,835
that the world perceives us.
958
00:37:55,882 --> 00:37:59,192
- The whole first section
of the film...
959
00:37:59,233 --> 00:38:03,323
it's kind of done like
a teen sex comedy, right?
960
00:38:03,368 --> 00:38:05,808
Like, before it gets
into the horrific scenes,
961
00:38:05,848 --> 00:38:08,548
we see Paxton, Josh,
and their friend Oli
962
00:38:08,590 --> 00:38:10,330
in Amsterdam.
963
00:38:10,375 --> 00:38:12,855
And they're just there
to party and smoke pot
964
00:38:12,899 --> 00:38:15,679
and especially,
in a very extended sequence,
965
00:38:15,728 --> 00:38:18,078
have sex with prostitutes.
966
00:38:18,121 --> 00:38:20,781
It invokes this whole
kind of privilege
967
00:38:20,820 --> 00:38:24,650
of paying to do something
to somebody else.
968
00:38:24,693 --> 00:38:27,003
- But it's just like
everyone's out for themselves.
969
00:38:27,043 --> 00:38:28,443
You're not meeting friends.
970
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:29,830
You're meeting someone
who could be the person
971
00:38:29,872 --> 00:38:33,012
that's gonna kill
and rape and murder you.
972
00:38:33,049 --> 00:38:34,179
- You're very patient.
973
00:38:34,224 --> 00:38:35,924
I don't--I don't remember--
974
00:38:35,965 --> 00:38:38,135
- It was 45 minutes.
- Yeah, you go 45 minutes.
975
00:38:38,185 --> 00:38:39,395
- Then we kill
our first character.
976
00:38:39,447 --> 00:38:43,187
- In that time, you are
977
00:38:43,233 --> 00:38:46,983
allowing us to identify
with the soon-to-be victims,
978
00:38:47,020 --> 00:38:49,540
but you're also
subtlety allowing us
979
00:38:49,588 --> 00:38:52,548
to hate them in a weird way.
- Mm-hmm.
980
00:38:52,591 --> 00:38:54,161
- 'Cause they're being
kind of rude--
981
00:38:54,201 --> 00:38:55,901
they're being so American.
982
00:38:55,942 --> 00:38:58,552
So by the time
you get to the killing,
983
00:38:58,597 --> 00:39:00,287
we're half identifying
with the killer,
984
00:39:00,338 --> 00:39:02,598
half identifying with
the victim, and I think
985
00:39:02,644 --> 00:39:05,914
that part of it is the
weirdest thing about horror.
986
00:39:05,952 --> 00:39:09,002
Like, we need to be able
to identify
987
00:39:09,042 --> 00:39:11,742
with that dark side of us
that maybe wants
988
00:39:11,784 --> 00:39:13,664
to kill somebody sometimes.
989
00:39:13,699 --> 00:39:15,569
- I am an American.
I got rights.
990
00:39:15,614 --> 00:39:17,184
- Get the [bleep] out!
991
00:39:17,224 --> 00:39:19,404
- What I think is important
and interesting
992
00:39:19,444 --> 00:39:23,104
about "Hostel" is that
it doesn't allow the viewer
993
00:39:23,143 --> 00:39:26,233
to feel that sense
that the American
994
00:39:26,276 --> 00:39:31,756
is exempt from implication
in the War on Terror
995
00:39:31,804 --> 00:39:33,594
and in the use of torture.
996
00:39:33,632 --> 00:39:34,982
- Who are you?
997
00:39:35,024 --> 00:39:36,944
What the--
where the [bleep] am I?
998
00:39:36,983 --> 00:39:38,643
- I guess it's kind of like
a pushback kind of?
999
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,380
- Mm-hmm.
- Like, oh, you think
1000
00:39:40,421 --> 00:39:42,291
you rule the world?
You don't.
1001
00:39:42,336 --> 00:39:45,026
- The first extended scene
of torture that we have
1002
00:39:45,078 --> 00:39:46,778
is of this kind of privileged,
1003
00:39:46,819 --> 00:39:49,259
young, white American male.
1004
00:39:49,299 --> 00:39:52,609
And we see his body
kind of taken away
1005
00:39:52,651 --> 00:39:55,521
secretively to this
foreign torture center
1006
00:39:55,567 --> 00:39:58,567
and tortured in an act
that reminds us
1007
00:39:58,613 --> 00:40:01,053
of the extraordinary
rendition program.
1008
00:40:01,094 --> 00:40:02,234
[drill whirs]
- No!
1009
00:40:02,269 --> 00:40:03,659
[screams]
1010
00:40:03,705 --> 00:40:05,575
- And the viewer identifying
with Josh,
1011
00:40:05,620 --> 00:40:07,140
you know,
is forced in a position
1012
00:40:07,187 --> 00:40:09,147
of having to imagine themselves
1013
00:40:09,189 --> 00:40:11,059
as being subject to torture.
1014
00:40:11,104 --> 00:40:13,454
[flesh tearing]
- [screaming]
1015
00:40:13,498 --> 00:40:14,928
- There are people that,
you know,
1016
00:40:14,977 --> 00:40:16,717
watch torture videos.
1017
00:40:16,762 --> 00:40:17,982
And you pay a certain amount,
1018
00:40:18,024 --> 00:40:20,164
and you can become
Mr. Director.
1019
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,460
And the fact that that exists
1020
00:40:22,507 --> 00:40:25,377
internationally
in much poorer countries
1021
00:40:25,423 --> 00:40:27,603
where, you know,
maybe the parents have died
1022
00:40:27,642 --> 00:40:29,122
and the kids are easier
to get,
1023
00:40:29,165 --> 00:40:31,515
it's a really
disgusting quality
1024
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:33,079
that exists in humanity
1025
00:40:33,126 --> 00:40:34,556
that we don't even want
to talk about.
1026
00:40:34,606 --> 00:40:36,906
And I think that's why
we just got a little peek
1027
00:40:36,956 --> 00:40:38,736
of a window into it
in "Hostel."
1028
00:40:38,784 --> 00:40:41,834
And it was too much
for most people to accept.
1029
00:40:41,874 --> 00:40:44,224
- The real world
is much scarier than anything
1030
00:40:44,267 --> 00:40:48,577
that Eli Roth or Stephen King
could come up with.
1031
00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:51,060
It's a really disturbing,
sick, violent world
1032
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:53,150
we live in.
Horror films reflect that.
1033
00:40:53,189 --> 00:40:55,499
And horror films
are a way of people
1034
00:40:55,540 --> 00:40:58,540
coming to terms with
the violence in society,
1035
00:40:58,586 --> 00:41:00,406
trying to deal with it
and trying to,
1036
00:41:00,458 --> 00:41:02,548
you know,
escape it a lot of ways.
1037
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,550
- We're not allowed to be
scared anywhere in life.
1038
00:41:06,594 --> 00:41:09,034
I hear from soldiers
on military bases
1039
00:41:09,075 --> 00:41:10,465
that were watching "Hostel"
1040
00:41:10,511 --> 00:41:12,081
and watching my films
and screaming.
1041
00:41:12,121 --> 00:41:13,561
And, like,
they're dealing with death,
1042
00:41:13,601 --> 00:41:15,471
but they're not allowed
to be afraid.
1043
00:41:15,516 --> 00:41:18,036
But for 90 minutes, you can
be afraid and not be a coward.
1044
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:23,180
More than any other monster
in horror,
1045
00:41:23,219 --> 00:41:25,399
the slasher taps
into our primal fear
1046
00:41:25,439 --> 00:41:27,139
of the predator.
1047
00:41:27,180 --> 00:41:28,830
And when that predator
comes in human form,
1048
00:41:28,877 --> 00:41:30,787
you have to wonder...
1049
00:41:30,836 --> 00:41:32,746
[suspenseful music]
1050
00:41:32,794 --> 00:41:35,144
"Will I be
the resourceful survivor..."
1051
00:41:35,188 --> 00:41:42,238
♪
1052
00:41:43,936 --> 00:41:46,366
"Or just another kill?"
1053
00:41:46,416 --> 00:41:48,376
- He's gone.
1054
00:41:48,418 --> 00:41:50,288
- [screams]
1055
00:41:52,988 --> 00:41:54,028
- [yells]
72069
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