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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,360 This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find upsetting and deals with suicide. 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,040 CHATTER 3 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:32,640 It's 5am, and I've joined a large crowd at Belfast's Ormeau Park 4 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,200 for the Darkness Into Light event, 5 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,800 a charity walk for those impacted by suicide and self-harm. 6 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,360 People go through dark times. 7 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,200 We all go through dark times. 8 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,960 But this is the symbolism of Darkness Into Light - 9 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,000 the darkness does pass. 10 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:55,960 Somebody wrote on one of the banners, "Hope - it means hold on. 11 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,960 "Pain ends." That's something to remember. 12 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,680 You've got to hold on. It will pass. The pain will end. 13 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,880 15 years ago, my brother Richard died by suicide. 14 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,240 It had a devastating impact on me and my family 15 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:19,040 and isn't something I've discussed publicly in great detail, until now. 16 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,080 I think suicidal death is one of the worst deaths, 17 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,480 because it's the unknown and the why. 18 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,880 I can see family members here, 19 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,200 I can see people here who have been on the road of darkness 20 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:34,800 and they've come out the other side. 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,720 It's a great thing, a yearly thing, but it's great for raising awareness 22 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,600 and letting people know it's OK, you can talk. 23 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,440 You know, you don't have to put this all onto yourself. 24 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,840 In this documentary, I'm going to tell my brother's story, 25 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,320 to share my experiences with others who've been affected 26 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,520 and explore what's being done to prevent suicide 27 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,760 here in Northern Ireland. 28 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,560 MUSIC: No More Heroes by The Stranglers 29 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,520 # Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky? # 30 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,440 These are actually Richard's old records, 31 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,440 all boxed away for many years. 32 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,720 I have not seen these since I was a child. 33 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:46,280 It's unbelievable how a record can just transport you back in time, 34 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,960 that kind of memory of a point in time in your childhood. 35 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,200 He was a huge kind of Sex Pistols, Stiff Little Fingers, 36 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,920 The Clash, The Stranglers - loved his punk, absolutely. 37 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:04,280 And, you know, I was sort of six, seven, eight, 38 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,600 being bombarded with this music... 39 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,080 LAUGHS ..all day, every day, basically! 40 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,440 You know, I'd be banging the wall, going, "Turn it down!" 41 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,600 There are a number of reasons that I wanted to make this documentary. 42 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,120 I think the first one is the fact that male suicide 43 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,880 is still so prevalent, 44 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,440 the biggest killer of men under the age of 50. 45 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,280 And when you think about that, 46 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,120 you know, when you think of all the other diseases there are out there - 47 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,280 you know, heart attack, stroke, cancer - 48 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,280 but people taking their own lives is the biggest killer, 49 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,280 and, you know, is there some way to examine that? 50 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,080 And I've always sort of felt that if you could just get people to pause 51 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,960 just for a second, an hour a week, 52 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,880 just to think about some alternative to suicide. 53 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,880 MUSIC: Alternative Ulster by Stiff Little Fingers 54 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,400 Another big reason for making the documentary 55 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,960 is about my nephew, Richard's son Finn. 56 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,000 So, he was five when Richard died and he doesn't really remember him. 57 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,040 And, I mean, we all remember him as a child, that nought-to-five, 58 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,040 and how close Richard and Finn's relationship was 59 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,880 and how much he adored him. 60 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,920 And it's so sad to hear Finn say that he doesn't remember his dad. 61 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,040 He's just got the odd little kind of snapshot. 62 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,280 He's now almost 20, 63 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:34,200 so I think it's nice to have a real sense of the person 64 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:35,480 that his dad was. 65 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,520 MUSIC GETS LOUDER 66 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,520 Turn it up, then? 67 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,440 SHE LAUGHS 68 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,560 I can just see him dancing to it! 69 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:48,840 That's so funny. 70 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,160 Definitely transports you back. 71 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,920 # They just want money We can take or leave it 72 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,040 # What we need 73 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,320 # Is an alternative Ulster. # 74 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,640 Alfie McCrory is a Belfast community worker 75 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,560 who I've known for more than 15 years. 76 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,160 Not long after my brother died, Alfie also lost his son, Alfred. 77 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:30,000 When I got that phone call that day, my whole life just caved in. 78 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,720 He comes to this bench to remember him and his other young son, 79 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,240 who died shortly after childbirth. 80 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,280 The day before Alfred died, I was driving up the Shankill 81 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:42,200 and he came out of one of the local clubs... 82 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,480 And he waved at me and says, "Hiya, Dad. See you later." 83 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,520 And that was OK and I didn't think anything of it, 84 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,600 didn't see any signs, and then I got a phone call... 85 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,200 I was over in the Ballymac Youth Club, 86 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,600 in the Lower Newtownards Road, 87 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,880 and I got a phone call to say, "You need to get to Alfred's house. 88 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,120 "The police is at it. Something's happening." 89 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,720 And I knew right away. I knew... I had a gut feeling 90 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,800 something was wrong. 91 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,840 And people say, don't they - 92 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:07,400 and you'll have heard this many times - 93 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:08,880 people who are in a dark place say, 94 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,640 "Oh, they'd be better off without me." 95 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,800 You know, "The family would be better off without me. 96 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,040 "I'm a burden." 97 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,160 I mean, it's the thing that is the biggest lie in all of this, 98 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,880 isn't it, the impact that it has? 99 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,960 Well, to me, it's a myth, because...if Alfred had 100 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,920 or is looking down on us and seen the love that was there for him, 101 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,560 and if he had took a step back, 102 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,720 or had he went out and went down the road to his mates 103 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,640 or went somewhere else and stood back for five minutes, 104 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,640 he probably would have still been here today 105 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,440 because...I keep wondering... 106 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,320 He would have been 42 now, and I keep wondering 107 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,720 what he would've been like, how many kids he would've had 108 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,200 and what kind of person he would have turned into. 109 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,560 But when that happens... 110 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,760 And I do appreciate people who get into the dark age and say, 111 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,920 "Oh, my family will be better off without me, 112 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,400 "I'm a burden to them and all." But that's... that's not true. 113 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,000 Yet, tragically, just a few months ago, 114 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,440 Alfie also lost his 13-year-old granddaughter. 115 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,480 In the two or three weeks after I lost my granddaughter, 116 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,920 I was getting phone calls from other families, 117 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,520 worried about their teenage kids, 118 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,200 boys and girls around the same age as my granddaughter. 119 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,680 And I was inundated with phone calls 120 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,840 and people stopping me, even walking down the road - 121 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,040 "Can I see you a wee minute? Can you give me advice? 122 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,240 "What's the best thing to do?" 123 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,640 Nobody thinks that it'll come to their door. 124 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,360 And the biggest thing that sticks in my mind, 125 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:35,680 14 years on and even 12 weeks on, is the word, "Why?" 126 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,120 It's not how they done it or where they done it, 127 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:40,720 it's why they done it. 128 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,720 That's a question I've asked myself over the past 15 years, too - 129 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,640 a question I'll never be able to answer. 130 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,280 Richard was my big brother, four years older than me. 131 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,880 We grew up with a shared love of the news, and it's no surprise 132 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,600 we both ended up working in the media. 133 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,760 At the time of his death, he was an award-winning war photographer 134 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,400 working for The Times in London. 135 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,240 Some of the most startling images over the last 12 months 136 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,920 were mock-ups, video grabs, pictures taken by soldiers 137 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,880 and people pretending to be soldiers. 138 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,000 There have been many unforgettable pictures which have adorned 139 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,040 our newspapers in 2004. 140 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,760 But equally, there are many whose content we would like to forget. 141 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,080 He was always striving for the ultimate picture. 142 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,000 This one...of the little girl, 143 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,160 and there's a bullet hole in the glass 144 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,240 and her eye's up against the hole where the shattered glass 145 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,280 has gone through. 146 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,200 And there's one just straight afterwards of a little boy. 147 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,680 It wasn't just about the picture, 148 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:03,560 it was about the relationship with the person he was photographing. 149 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:05,200 And he was very good at that. 150 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,360 He had the charm and the wit and put people at their ease 151 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,680 and would get great stories that way as well. 152 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:15,000 So he was a proper photojournalist in that sense. 153 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,240 This photo of a young girl in Zimbabwe had a major impact 154 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,680 when it was published. 155 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:26,160 Over the years, it's had a lasting impression on me, too. 156 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,400 This girl had a very unusual skin cancer condition, 157 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,360 but she was very poor. 158 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,880 There was no medical assistance available in Zimbabwe 159 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,760 for her community. 160 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,640 And they took this picture. 161 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,080 It went on the front page of The Times, 162 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,800 but there was something about her and that story 163 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,080 that definitely affected him. 164 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,040 Richard was working in Zimbabwe when he died, 165 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,520 the remote location adding to the confusion and shock 166 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,000 at the time of his death, 167 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,000 so it's a country that's always been on my mind. 168 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,600 I suppose I'm just interested to know what it was about Zimbabwe 169 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,920 that affected him so deeply. 170 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,480 I suppose there's maybe always been a sense of restlessness in me 171 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,800 that...I don't really know what that place is like. 172 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,440 It's not somewhere I've ever visited. 173 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:21,680 And there are still people there that knew him and worked with him. 174 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:24,720 So, I just would love to have a better understanding 175 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,200 of what that was like for him. 176 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,960 When Richard died back in 2008, 177 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,040 it wasn't just his death but the manner of his death 178 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,120 that impacted our family - 179 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,400 attitudes then very different to now. 180 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,480 Draperstown was once known as the suicide capital of Mid Ulster - 181 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,280 that is, until a community group of dedicated volunteers 182 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,680 decided to do something about it. 183 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,360 And why was it important for you to get involved, Margaret? 184 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,360 It was important because I lost a son to suicide. 185 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:06,920 And... 186 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,400 ..I suppose if there would have been more help, that's... 187 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,480 ..23 come, 23 years come. 188 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,320 There was no help at all. That wasn't even talked about. 189 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:20,800 So... 190 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,800 And got to meet a lot of people 191 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,400 that were in the same boat as ourselves, so... 192 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,160 So, I've lost a cousin on both sides. 193 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,080 So, Aidan was 23 and Ronan was almost 28. 194 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,840 And the only thing that changed... 195 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,840 Ronan died in 2000, Aidan died in 2008, 196 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,680 and the only thing that changed in that time 197 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:41,080 was that people had stopped being as shocked. 198 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,040 So no help, no support, but people weren't as shocked any more, 199 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,360 people were nearly numb to it. 200 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,440 And then, like, without it... STEPS started in 2012, 201 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,400 and if it hadn't got started - and I can categorically say it - 202 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,920 my daughter tried to take her own life 203 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,480 and she wouldn't be here. She would not be here, 204 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,680 only that I knew the experience and I knew who to turn to 205 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:06,440 and I knew that she had to be watched. 206 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,120 And she's now mother to three children. 207 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,400 And what age was she, whenever that happened? She was 19. Yeah. 208 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,880 In some ways, maybe, people living in a city think 209 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,160 that you know everybody in a rural community, 210 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,360 nobody locks their door and everybody can just pop in. Yes. 211 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,720 And, again, that's the picture perfect. 212 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,160 But what goes with that is everybody can know your business. 213 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,480 SHE LAUGHS 214 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,800 So there is pros for it, in that everybody can feel connected, 215 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,600 but if you're quite a private person, 216 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,640 it can feel quite suffocating. 217 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,960 Realising that life is worth living. 218 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,160 That's really for children and for schools 219 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:46,800 and for parents, for everybody, 220 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,800 to realise that...talking about it doesn't make suicide happen. 221 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,480 It's the complete opposite. By talking about how you get help 222 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,040 before you reach the point where you think you've got nobody left 223 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,520 that can help you, that's where all the vital work comes. 224 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,280 We've had over 25,000 people through our classes. 225 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,960 Our counselling service set up in December 2016 226 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,440 because our local GP, the waiting list was one to two years. 227 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,960 And initially, we just took their waiting list, 228 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,880 and once we had it at a manageable level, 229 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,520 then we discovered that, actually, younger people was a huge issue. 230 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,400 And we've now to date seen over 620 people 231 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,920 from 48 different towns and villages. 232 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,760 We counsel the five days week and the five evenings a week 233 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,280 and we still have a waiting list. 234 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,080 What astonishes me is the huge number of people 235 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,560 that have used the counselling service, so the demand is there, 236 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,440 but you've done that yourselves, 237 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,960 just through raising money in the local community. 238 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,680 You haven't had any government support up to this point. No. 239 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,560 Well, people have fundraised for us, and that's what keeps us going. 240 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,640 I feel Draperstown now own STEPS. 241 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,800 Like, STEPS, the community actually took ownership of it, 242 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,560 and that's what makes it so successful - 243 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,880 because it matters to everybody. 244 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,800 STEPS has transformed local attitudes 245 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,880 to suicide and mental health, 246 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:11,360 when 15 years ago, it was barely even talked about. 247 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,200 I can relate to that. It's difficult for families to deal with the shock, 248 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:16,840 let alone the grief. 249 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,880 I love coming up in here, just to see them all. Mmm. 250 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,320 The focus there, or the...focus about here, 251 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,600 and then just concentrating on that. Warrior ethos. Incredible. 252 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,160 I know, it's funny cos the 20 years... 253 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,360 It's the 20th anniversary now of Iraq. 254 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,800 Yeah. That was really the first big gig he did, wasn't it, really? 255 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,160 I don't know why that one always kind of strikes me. 256 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,760 Which one's that? 257 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,440 Oh, yeah. Oh, it's a very memorable photograph, 258 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,320 but it's really unusual as well. 259 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,520 Well, you notice, he was always focusing on the eyes. 260 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,920 Yeah, definitely. ..and that one there is a big example of it. Yeah. 261 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,240 And they say the eye is the mirror of the soul. Yeah. 262 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,000 So he was looking right inside people. 263 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,360 This, I think, is the main problem Richard had. 264 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,920 He had witnessed so much of man's inhumanity to man, 265 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:28,080 whether it was natural disasters like the Pakistani earthquake 266 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:33,560 or Mugabe in Zimbabwe or the carry-on in the Middle East, 267 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,120 in Afghanistan and what have you. 268 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,320 I mean, he saw the worst of human nature. 269 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,200 I'm quite convinced he was suffering from PTSD. 270 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,720 Without a shadow of a doubt. Cos I don't think anybody... Absolutely. 271 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,360 ..was aware of that. There's two things you ask yourself. 272 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,360 One is, "Why?" 273 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,440 Why did this happen? 274 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,200 Why did he do this? 275 00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:59,640 And the second is... 276 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,040 .."What if?" 277 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,680 It's 15 years, nearly, since Richard took his own life. 278 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:13,600 And in that time, I still haven't got over the shock. 279 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,440 Does it still kind of catch you that, you know, 280 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,160 that he died through suicide, by suicide? 281 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,840 Do you still have days? Oh, yes. Because it does me. 282 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,840 I definitely go and can't - still can't - quite believe it. Yeah. 283 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,520 Things that you remember and you recall 284 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,440 and you hold on to them because those are dear, 285 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,600 those are happy moments. 286 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,960 You know, there are sad moments as well 287 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,160 that you regret. 288 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,200 But you try to forget about them. 289 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,280 You know, the "What if?" and the "Why" are the two kind of questions. 290 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,440 And I suppose that's the same for anybody 291 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,120 who's lost a family member through suicide. 292 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,280 I just wonder, you know, do you ever talk to anybody about that? 293 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,360 Or how have you kind of got through the last 15 years? 294 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,000 Cos it doesn't seem that we talk about it that much. 295 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,080 We talk about HIM a lot, 296 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,240 but we don't talk about the circumstances very much. 297 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,600 No, well, I mean, I... 298 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,320 If somebody wants to talk to me, they can talk to me. 299 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,520 I haven't been known to be short of conversation, 300 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:22,960 but I leave people to get on with it and to do their own thing. 301 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,640 You know, you watch and you see and everybody seems to manage. 302 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:33,160 You all seem to be extremely stable and well-adjusted. 303 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:38,760 Finn's the one I worry about, because the trauma that he had 304 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,760 as a very young boy... 305 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,800 HE CLEARS THROAT 306 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,800 Pardon me. 307 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,360 I had to tell him, I was the one who told him about his father dying. 308 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:54,600 I mean, I still worry and I worry about him over now and still, 309 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,680 because, then, eight years later, 310 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,040 his mum dies from cancer of the pancreas. 311 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,880 You know, what has the boy got? 312 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,240 These are traumas that are very, very difficult to handle. 313 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,120 That's the really difficult thing, isn't it, 314 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:14,320 to try to kind of steer somebody who's been through all that trauma? 315 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,360 But even the little girl in the white dress, 316 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,960 you know, in the midst of the conflict and the war, 317 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,680 and that little moment... I was about to say that, you know, 318 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,440 it's bound to have affected him. 319 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,640 But he never said... He never complained. 320 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,400 He never said anything. 321 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,600 And that's the "What if?" What if he had have said, you know? I know. 322 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,120 Just a pity, a life cut off so short... Yeah. 323 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,680 ..what he could have done, what he could have been. 324 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,680 Again, what if? Yeah. 325 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,760 Something to be proud of. 326 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,840 I'm proud of it. Yeah. Me too. 327 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,200 So do you think you've got everything you need? 328 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,120 Or have you got a few bits and pieces that you'll need to get? 329 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:27,800 For...Zimbabwe? Yeah. 330 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,480 Despite everything Finn has had to deal with, he's well-grounded. 331 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,680 And in many ways, my nephew is just an average 20-year-old. 332 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,880 INDISTINCT CONVERSATION 333 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,080 And do you look at his photos much? 334 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,560 Of course. Erm... 335 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,200 I obviously go to the gallery quite a lot 336 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,520 and I see the photos there, and I like... 337 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,960 Sometimes when my friends come over, I like to show them that, 338 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,880 cos even though it's not my own work, I'm proud of it, even - 339 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,200 going, "That's my dad's work." 340 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,920 And everyone's, like, always the same thing - like, "Wow!" 341 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,600 "It's amazing." And... 342 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,040 And it's kind of shocking to be like, "Wow, that's amazing!" 343 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,280 when you're seeing photos of pain and death 344 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,800 and just...nothing really nice, 345 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,000 but it's still really powerful, you know, 346 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,240 and you can understand how great those images are. 347 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,560 Yeah, cos I always remember, particularly after he died, 348 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,000 there were a lot of people from those countries, 349 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,960 fixers and people who'd been drivers 350 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,560 and, you know, you go on those assignments and people... 351 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:31,720 You get to know people 352 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,880 and you build up really big relationships with them, 353 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,160 cos it's quite an intense experience. 354 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:37,680 And getting so many letters. 355 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,160 You know, Grandma and Grandad got so many letters from people 356 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,960 just saying how much fun he was and how... 357 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,960 And is that...? What's that like for you, 358 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,280 when you hear people talk about him like that? 359 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,880 I mean, it's nice to know that he had an effect on people. 360 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,360 It's a bit... 361 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,680 ..bad, though, that I didn't get to see what that was like, you know? 362 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,120 Cos I missed out on having my dad there, 363 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:09,120 and everyone that knows about him and has told me about him, 364 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,040 there's loads of stories - I mean, countless, 365 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:12,960 and they're all funny ones, 366 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,000 or "He did this, he did that" - and I'm thinking, like, 367 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,800 "I missed out on that." 368 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,240 And...so it's nice to know that they do all have these things, 369 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,080 but it's a little bit... 370 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,480 ..thinking about it more as, like, "Well, I could have had that too, 371 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,360 "but I don't have any stories like that that I could tell." 372 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:31,160 I wish I could. 373 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,040 And is that annoying sometimes? 374 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,840 Do you want people not to tell...? You know, do you sort of think, 375 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,520 you know, "Stop telling me those stories"? 376 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,120 Cos I think probably from even a family point of view, 377 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,480 you tend to talk about people who are no longer with us 378 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,800 because you want to keep their memory alive... Of course. ..but then you don't have that. 379 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,720 We probably got more of that, or we obviously got more of that, 380 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,280 than you did. Well... 381 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,080 It's more that... 382 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,840 I'd like to contribute sometimes, and I can't. 383 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,480 You know? And the stories I do have are the same ones, 384 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,840 and it's just like recycling them over and over. 385 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,400 It's like... I don't know. 386 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,520 And it's nice to hear the stories, 387 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,040 cos it gives me more of an insight to the man who my father was. 388 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,080 But... 389 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:19,640 ..it is upsetting that I can't contribute to those conversations 390 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,840 and give my own stories. 391 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,840 For his own reasons, Finn is making the trip with me to Zimbabwe. 392 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,280 Is there anything about the trip that you're worried about 393 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,400 or feel a bit apprehensive about? 394 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,200 I'm... I'm really curious. 395 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,240 I hope I can, in some way, find a connection 396 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,240 and get a better understanding of him, 397 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,640 just so I can feel a bit more closer to him. 398 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,960 It'd be nice cos, I mean, it's been a long time, like, so... 399 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,000 And it's not been easy over those times, 400 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:59,760 but I'd like to know more of who he was and see what he saw. 401 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,840 PHONE RINGS 402 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,920 CCIS. Tom speaking. 403 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,080 Yeah. How are you getting on tonight? 404 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:24,920 OK. 405 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,680 Is there anything in particular going on that's making you feel like that, or...? 406 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,720 Outside of Belfast, the north-west has one of the highest suicide rates 407 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,680 in Northern Ireland. 408 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,000 The city's Community Crisis Intervention Service 409 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,040 is literally a lifeline for people in distress, 410 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,200 dealing with almost 1,700 cases a year. 411 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,800 Sometimes when people are in that moment of suicide, 412 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,120 they can't remember about their relatives, their friends, 413 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:55,480 everybody that cares about them. They can't see the bigger picture. 414 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,000 And that's very important in that initial moment, to make that link. 415 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,880 What sort of age ranges have you seen? 416 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,600 SIGHS 417 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,600 It just depends. 418 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,080 In different areas, it just... 419 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,800 There's just pockets of different things. 420 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,840 So, children to pensioners - is that what you're saying? Yeah. 421 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,520 PHONE RINGS 422 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,280 CCIS. Tom speaking. 423 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,000 Hey. How's it going? 424 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,720 Do you think... Is that the most important thing - to listen? 425 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:25,960 100%, yeah. 426 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,560 But it's all about, you know, taking people 427 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,680 one individual at a time and trying to do your best 428 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,800 to let them see that there's more to life 429 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,840 than the things that are holding them back. 430 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,400 And what's your plan for this evening? 431 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,520 You have one? 432 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,120 There's all different techniques for them to know 433 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:48,640 that you're listening to them, 434 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:53,000 but I think sometimes the biggest thing is just having somebody 435 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,760 at the end of the phone to hear their story. 436 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,440 It can be tricky. It just depends, cos you're kind of risk assessing 437 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,640 while they're on the phone. 438 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:02,760 Yeah. 439 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:05,920 Are you working tomorrow? 440 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,200 No? OK. 441 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,280 It's about distraction as well. 442 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,280 They just need distracted for 15, 20 minutes 443 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,960 from what's going on in their own mind. 444 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,200 And sometimes that distraction can be all that they need to do 445 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,600 to make them feel a wee bit better. 446 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,920 And if you want to maybe give us a wee ring back, you know, 447 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,160 we're here to 12. 448 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,280 OK. You know how to ring us, 449 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,840 and if you want to give us a ring back, we'll be here. 450 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,880 I'm here all weekend, OK? 451 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,080 All right. Take care of yourself and maybe talk to you later. Bye. 452 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,400 That was remarkable, really, Tom, 453 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,640 to kind of listen in to that side of the conversation. 454 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,920 Your voice was very low. It was very calm. 455 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,640 You said very little, but you were quite specific about 456 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,120 just trying to keep the person focused on something and... 457 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:17,960 Everybody's different. 458 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,120 And...you tend to find a pace with them. 459 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:23,640 That's it. 460 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,280 You know, if somebody's got a lot going on or is saying a lot, 461 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,640 you just have to listen and make sure that, you know, 462 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,280 when they do maybe take a break, 463 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,760 that you have got all the sort of main points, 464 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,640 maybe recite them back to them 465 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,120 to make sure that you're on the same page... Mm-hm. 466 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:42,960 ..and what it is that you think they're looking for from the call, 467 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,880 or what do you think that they maybe need to do? 468 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,400 The thing that struck me most, though, was that you were listening. 469 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,800 It's the nature of the role, to listen. 470 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:57,360 It's the most important thing you can do. 471 00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,600 And it can be life-saving. 472 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,800 Yeah, 100%. 473 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,640 It is life-saving. It's been proven to do it. 474 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,400 You know, we know for a fact the amount of people that, 475 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,440 you know, we've supported throughout the years, 476 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,560 other organisations throughout this region, 477 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,440 and it... it is life-saving. That's a fact. 478 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,720 Leave them going off the call 479 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,520 feeling as if they got what they wanted, 480 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,440 they got to help or the support that they needed 481 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,800 that they maybe weren't going to get anywhere else. 482 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,920 And also that if they do need to phone back, 483 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,240 that you can take another call. Yeah. 484 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,640 Yeah. 485 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,000 And, Sarah, is that import... 486 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,000 PHONE RINGS 487 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,280 CCIS. Tom speaking. 488 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,400 I think I found it pretty intense, actually, 489 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,400 watching and hearing how they handled the calls 490 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:59,480 and how quiet and calm and gentle they were with people who phoned in 491 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,640 and just how good they are at what they do. 492 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,120 And I just wonder, for all those people that were in crisis, 493 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,520 the people that phone in to this nondescript building in Derry, 494 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,800 what would happen if there weren't people here listening? 495 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,320 Richard was lucky to work alongside some of the best 496 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,840 and most respected foreign reporters. 497 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,320 I've kept in touch with some of them over the years, 498 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,400 but I've never sat down with them to discuss Richard's death 499 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,440 and how it impacted them. 500 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,520 Tara! Hello! How are you? 501 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,560 Great to see you. So good to see you. Come in. 502 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:47,840 Thanks a million. 503 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:58,320 This was... Oh, gosh! ..in 2007, and we had gone out to Zimbabwe. 504 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:03,200 It was in a terrible, terrible economic mess. 505 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,800 He was fantastic to work with. 506 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,040 First of all, he was a great photographer. 507 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:14,120 Secondly, he had this extraordinary ability to connect with people, 508 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,520 with whoever he was photographing, which was really useful for me 509 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,360 because he had this ability to put people at ease. 510 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,760 We were in Somalia, which was a pretty dicey place to be. 511 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,960 The Islamic Courts had just taken over, 512 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,480 and they have this militant wing called the Shabab 513 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,840 who are real fundamentalists. 514 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,840 And we went out to one of their training camps - 515 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,200 I mean, now, you wouldn't dare do this because, you know, 516 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:40,360 they're a bit like Isis, 517 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,200 they would as soon cut your head off as look at you - 518 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,680 and we end up playing a football game against them, 519 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,680 Richard's instigation. 520 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,920 That's what he did. He just made friends with people, disarmed them. 521 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,800 I was just thinking that 522 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:03,600 one of his better known photos is of that young al-Shabab soldier 523 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,680 staring down the barrel of a gun. 524 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,880 Do you know the one I mean? Yeah, yeah, I know exactly. 525 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,200 And that was a classic Richard. 526 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,160 You know, to be able to connect in the way he did 527 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:18,600 with a young militant Islamist fundamentalist soldier 528 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,360 and get him to pose like that, it was extraordinary. 529 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,240 You don't think when you see the photo of what went into it. 530 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,560 Really, he had to win his confidence and his cooperation. 531 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,040 Yeah, trust... It was a great talent. 532 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,000 One other thing, though, is he did get very close to the people 533 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,040 we were photographing, people we were writing about. 534 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,480 You know, I think he felt their pain. 535 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,440 And clearly, in the case of Sarudzai Gumbo, he felt their pain. 536 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,920 Sarudzai, the young girl in Zimbabwe in that photo. 537 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,400 Over the years, I've longed to know more about her. 538 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,800 Took the hat off, and we saw this, which was a six-year-old girl 539 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,320 with lesions all over her head. 540 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,880 I mean, she was in a terrible way. She could barely open her eyes. 541 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,200 And her name was Sarudzai Gumbo. 542 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,000 Both parents were HIV-positive. 543 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,360 Sarudzai was HIV-positive. 544 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,120 They had no money for medicine, barely any money for food, 545 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,360 and she was clearly dying. 546 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,640 So we ran this story - 547 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,440 "Portrait of Zimbabwe", the face of Mugabe's Zimbabwe - 548 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,360 and it had a huge impact back here. 549 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,000 The paper's readers were so shocked by the image, 550 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,640 they sent in money to help with her care. 551 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:49,840 We went back that December, so nine months later, 552 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,120 and we found Sarudzai... 553 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,520 In fact, I can show you. 554 00:31:54,520 --> 00:32:00,800 We found her in a hospital which had been abandoned... 555 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,320 ..by her doctors, by the doctors and nurses, 556 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:08,760 because they weren't being paid. 557 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:14,120 We found her sitting in this side room, forgotten, neglected. 558 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,160 She hadn't been washed. 559 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,200 She was in an even worse state than before. 560 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,280 No-one was looking after her. 561 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,280 And Richard brought her these, if you can see, two teddy bears, 562 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,560 which she just embraced. 563 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:36,560 And we literally picked her up and walked her out of the hospital. 564 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,040 And no-one stopped us. There was no-one there to stop us. 565 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:45,080 And we managed to get her admitted to a private clinic. 566 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,120 And that's where we left her. 567 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,440 She was cleaned up. She was getting fed properly. 568 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,200 She was being looked after and loved. 569 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,640 But it was too late. She... 570 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,800 She died a few days later. 571 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,320 Such a waste! She didn't have to die. 572 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,000 You know, I still feel bad that we were unable to save her. 573 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,120 You can't just walk away from something like that. 574 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:14,840 And that was what Richard was so good at. 575 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,960 You know, he never... He never forgot these people. 576 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,280 He... He would stay in touch. 577 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,040 He cared about them - you could argue too much. 578 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,280 Quite hard for you, doing this, is it? 579 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,600 Yeah, no, it's funny, cos I sort of have a sense of... 580 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,160 I think it's just because I've just turned my head into work mode, 581 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,560 so I've gone into work mode - cos I felt that last week as well. 582 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,160 So... Maybe you're doing what Richard did. 583 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,560 LAUGHS 584 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:44,560 I know! 585 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,680 You're treating it objectively... Yeah. 586 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,600 ..in a way that he rarely could. Yeah. 587 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,720 I mean, I was... I was telling a friend for the first time 588 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,040 about the documentary yesterday who was very close to Richard, 589 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,000 and she immediately welled up and started to cry. 590 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,280 And I was telling her in such a kind of matter of fact way, 591 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,720 I thought, "Gosh!" I've obviously thought about this so much 592 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,840 and, you know, considered the film and all that goes along with it, 593 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,360 but I think, you know, you can forget that the ripple effect 594 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,960 of what happened and so many people, cos I'm sure there are days 595 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,280 that it still catches you and you think about it. 596 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,200 Well, it's the thing about suicide, isn't it? You always feel guilty. 597 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,120 You know, the people you leave behind feel guilty. 598 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,480 You feel you should have spotted it, you should have known. 599 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,760 But you can't. Yeah. 600 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,960 And, you know, we're no different than anybody else 601 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,440 who's lost someone through suicide. 602 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,240 But as I say, you sort of almost have to not go down that avenue 603 00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:41,000 because you would drive yourself... I know. ..insane, 604 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,320 and the what-ifs and the whys and the... 605 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,080 It's... You know, you have to kind of not think along those lines. 606 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,240 I think finding out a little bit more about the assignments 607 00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:00,720 and the stories and the connection that Richard had with Zimbabwe, 608 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:04,160 and obviously the impact that particularly that little girl had 609 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,840 on both him and Martin, 610 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,320 it kind of makes me want to explore a little bit more. 611 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,080 Zimbabwe for me has only ever meant one thing. 612 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,040 Every time I hear it mentioned, every time I read it in a newspaper, 613 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,880 I can only think of my brother dying there. 614 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,280 So I'm hoping the trip will change that, 615 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,640 but I'm naturally anxious about the impact on me and on Finn. 616 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,800 It has not been a decision that we've reached easily or lightly. 617 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,520 I've thought long and hard over many months 618 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,520 about whether it's a good idea. 619 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,800 And I think maybe even two years ago, 620 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,400 when he was 18 and just finishing school 621 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,320 and finishing his A-levels, that wouldn't have been the right time. 622 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,400 But I think he's had a little bit more time 623 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,480 and a little less pressure from education, if you like, on him 624 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,600 that he's started to think a little bit more about his dad 625 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,720 and what he did, what his job was, the places that he travelled, 626 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:14,760 and he hasn't really travelled that much in the last number of years 627 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,120 since his mum died... 628 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,960 ..so I think that's quite a good opportunity 629 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,520 to share that experience with him, 630 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,000 so I feel really lucky and privileged in that way. 631 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,280 ARCHIVE: In what was once one of the richest countries in Africa, 632 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,040 people are dying for want of food, medicine, water, everything. 633 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,800 And if they complain, they're beaten. 634 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,120 In 2000, President Mugabe's regime had implemented 635 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,960 a brutal land reform policy. 636 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,120 Marred by violence, it forced many to leave the country. 637 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,360 By 2008, 80% of the population was unemployed, 638 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,640 starvation was widespread, the economy was in ruins. 639 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,800 Inflation was at a staggering 100,000%. 640 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,600 It's little wonder Richard visited here many times 641 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,320 to report on a country in turmoil. 642 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,440 Things have improved since 2008, but not by much. 643 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,840 It's an election year, so tensions are running high. 644 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,280 Foreign journalists are unwelcome, so we have travelled as tourists. 645 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,160 On his very last assignment, Richard spent time with Ben Freeth, 646 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,400 a high-profile critic of Mugabe 647 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,640 and a target for harassment and abduction. 648 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,440 There's no farmers able to farm, and we've got total anarchy, 649 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,760 we've got lawlessness. 650 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,400 Our farm workers get beaten, some of them with fractured skulls, 651 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,360 some of them with broken feet. 652 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,360 Hello there! Hello, Tara. 653 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,240 Oh, so nice to meet you. We've heard so much about you. Finn. 654 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,840 Yeah. Yeah. This is Richard's son, Finn. 655 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,720 Hiya. Nice to meet you. Finn, lovely to meet you. 656 00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:37,320 I've never met Ben before, 657 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,520 and he was one of the last people to see Richard alive. 658 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,400 We had total chaos in the land. 659 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:49,600 You know, we had people just getting beaten up, homes being invaded. 660 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,400 You know, we couldn't defend ourselves in any way. 661 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,040 The police weren't able to defend us. 662 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,360 And in fact, they were orchestrating it all. 663 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,920 And then we got abducted and tortured. 664 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,440 And it was... It was a really tough time. 665 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,120 And your brother stayed with us a little bit, 666 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,560 and then he went and stayed with some friends of mine 667 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,320 cos we didn't want him to be staying too long at each place, 668 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,720 because otherwise the secret police would have caught up with him. 669 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,000 He came to us on a Sunday... 670 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:27,720 ..and my wife, Laura, cooked a roast chicken and we had a Sunday roast, 671 00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:30,640 with roast potatoes and all the trimmings and everything, 672 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,280 and we had a great conversation. 673 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:39,520 And then I can remember sitting outside on the veranda 674 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,120 and then, you know, our kids were mad keen on rugby and stuff 675 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,640 and he was teaching them how to play rugby. 676 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:52,840 And he was...you know, playing and I was watching - 677 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,240 you know, cos I'd been really badly beaten up 678 00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:57,800 a couple of weeks before. 679 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,600 And so I had a bandage and I had a fractured skull 680 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,680 and things like that, and I was longing to join in... 681 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:05,920 THEY LAUGH 682 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,640 ..but I knew that I wasn't in a fit state to do so. 683 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,760 But, yeah, your dad was out there and just having such fun, you know? 684 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,320 And yesterday, I spoke to Lena Creamer, 685 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,640 who he was staying with the night before, and... 686 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,800 And he had written in the visitor's book that morning. 687 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,760 I just got... She sent a photograph of it. 688 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:33,800 Erm... 689 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,960 I'm myself getting quite emotional. 690 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,560 Erm... So that's your dad's writing. 691 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,760 And he wrote in the visitor's book... 692 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,240 "Richard Mills. 693 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:55,040 "Bertie and Lena, many thanks for letting us see 694 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,720 "a very special part of Zimbabwe. 695 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:03,520 "Your hospitality has been fantastic and very much appreciated. 696 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:08,800 "I hope someday to meet you and your family and friends 697 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,240 "at a braai..." So, a braii is a barbecue. 698 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:16,480 "..over a braii when times are better and... 699 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,920 "..we have better stories to share. Stay safe. 700 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,600 "God bless." 701 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,120 That was probably the last thing he ever wrote. 702 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:29,960 You know, it's amazing. 703 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,680 That was...that morning, that was that Sunday morning 704 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,920 before he came to have a lunch with us. 705 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,320 It must've been hard for you growing up... 706 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,560 Yeah. I found out that he died 707 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,120 a while after he actually had passed away. My grandad told me. 708 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,600 But it wasn't until I was maybe nine or ten 709 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,880 that my mum told me that he took his own life, 710 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,960 and that was almost like being told he died over again. 711 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,920 It hurt a lot. 712 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,240 And what went through your head? 713 00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:03,240 I just... I couldn't believe it because, I mean, at the time, 714 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:06,880 I was young and I just thought, what had I done? You know? 715 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,440 So... You blamed yourself? Partly. 716 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,000 It pains me cos I always wanted to have a dad. Sure. 717 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,920 And, I mean, my mum did a great job of playing the role 718 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,080 of my dad as well. 719 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,560 But... 720 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,440 No, it's annoying because so many kids do grow up without dads, 721 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,200 and it's... 722 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,800 I don't know, it's just... 723 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,680 It'd be nice to know what it was like, to have that growing up. Yeah. 724 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,240 And I think your dad had a heart for things. 725 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:42,720 People were able to relate to the work that he did, 726 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:46,360 and that, at the end of the day, is, 727 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,440 you know, one of the most important things in life - you know, 728 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,320 to have a heart for each other. 729 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,000 You know, that is... That's what life's about, really, isn't it? 730 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,720 You know? And your dad had that heart. 731 00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:01,360 THEY LAUGH 732 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,040 But isn't it great that you've been able to come out here... 733 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,120 Oh, 100%. ..with Tara and just...? 734 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,360 I've always wanted to come out to Zimbabwe, to see what he saw, 735 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,160 especially in his final days. 736 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,440 And I know he had such a love for Zimbabwe, and I can see why. 737 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,400 I mean, it's a beautiful country and I want to come back again. 738 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,360 I'd love to come see it... I'd like to come see it 739 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,400 hopefully when there are better days, to come see Zimbabwe. 740 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,880 Yeah, well, you can... 741 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,480 You can come in your dad's stead and have a braii. 742 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,240 THEY LAUGH 743 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,240 Exactly. Have a braii! Yeah. 744 00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:33,240 I like the beers here as well, so... THEY LAUGH 745 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,800 You're obviously a true Irishman. THEY LAUGH 746 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,720 Finn and I are travelling to the remote village of Karonga, 747 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,280 the birthplace and final resting place of the girl 748 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,640 in the photo, Sarudzai. 749 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,520 We're meeting a close friend of Richard's 750 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,320 who helped with this story. 751 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,280 Hello! Hello. 752 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,080 It's so nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Oh, I'll give a hug. 753 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,680 And this is Finn. Hiya. Hey! Nice to meet you. 754 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:45,240 SHE CRIES 755 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,200 Thank you. Thank you. 756 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,920 Are you OK? Yeah. 757 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,800 Thank you so much for coming and meeting us, Tressie. You're welcome. 758 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:10,880 We're really, really... 759 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,960 We've heard so much about you. And it's lovely to meet you. 760 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,600 Does he remind you of Richard? Yes. 761 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,840 You can see the resemblance? Yes. The resemblance in the height. 762 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,760 Yeah, yeah. 763 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,760 THEY LAUGH 764 00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,400 Very same personalities too. Yes, yes. 765 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,400 The difference is the earrings. 766 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,440 THEY LAUGH 767 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,920 Yeah, he didn't... Richard didn't have those. Yeah, yeah, yeah! 768 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,560 What do you remember about him? 769 00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:43,240 I do remember Richard... 770 00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:46,760 ..of his kindness. 771 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:47,920 He was so sweet. 772 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,760 Very kind, very loving. 773 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,680 Yeah. He loved it here. He loved it. Yes. 774 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,840 Yeah, he loved people. He loved people. He loved everyone. 775 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,560 But it was difficult, challenging times as well. 776 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,560 He was here when things were very tough. 777 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,200 Yes, he was there in 2008. Yeah. It was very tough. 778 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,080 But he was here, working with us. 779 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,200 It was hard to find out what had happened, I would imagine? 780 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,440 It was painful. Yeah. It was. 781 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,120 It was a surprise, because Father Winter came to my house 782 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:30,000 and started praying before he read us the message. 783 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,200 And I said, "What?! I was with him last night." 784 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,880 I have to be emotional because I didn't see him, 785 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,440 he loves his son... 786 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,440 THEY LAUGH 787 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,240 Oh, yeah, yeah, he loved his son. 788 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:44,800 There's no doubt about that. Always... Yes. 789 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,920 I pray for him every day. 790 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,080 Oh, my goodness. 791 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,640 Thank you for doing that. That's so lovely. 792 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,640 Cos he covered so many conflicts in so many different countries, 793 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,960 but her story was the one that definitely impacted him most. 794 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,440 Yes, yes, yes... 795 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,680 That's the graveyard for...the auntie. 796 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,920 Oh, the auntie? OK. Yes, they share the name. 797 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,240 But this is the little girl? This is for Sarudzai. Oh... 798 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,000 SINGING 799 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,440 Been nice meeting everyone that have known my dad, even 15 years on. 800 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,600 Like, seeing how Ben was getting choked up reading that letter, 801 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,400 and then when Tressie first saw me, and it's just like she latched on 802 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,080 and didn't let go. It felt so natural. 803 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,160 Once we spoke to Tressie and Ben, I was completely taken aback 804 00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:00,840 by their reaction. 805 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,000 And I think there are two ways of looking at that. 806 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,280 One is that he made a real impact on them. 807 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,120 But also, I suppose, after it happened, 808 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,840 it was probably such a shock to them. 809 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,680 They probably remember it in as much detail as we do, 810 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,840 but they've never had an outlet for that. 811 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,800 So, that was probably the first time they had had to express 812 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,600 some of the grief that they felt 15 years ago. 813 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,800 And for it to be so quick and instant, really, with both of them, 814 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,280 that's... that'll never leave me. I'll always take that away. 815 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,480 SINGING 816 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,080 It was refreshing. 817 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:40,480 It meant a lot. 818 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,600 And I could tell that it was... It was more than just, 819 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,080 you know, a guy who went over to take photos. 820 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,040 It was someone who really made a connection with these people. 821 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,240 It was... Oh, it was quite beautiful, really. 822 00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:55,280 SINGING 823 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,640 I had to do this trip, and I think if I didn't, I'd be 824 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,920 almost a bit cowardly. This is something that... 825 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,280 It was almost like a rite of passage, almost. I had to come here. 826 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,840 I felt so disconnected from him my whole kind of life 827 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,400 because I was young. 828 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,160 But, no, it has been an emotional journey, 829 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:46,120 but I know that I needed to do this and I'm glad I have done it now. 830 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,040 I think meeting the people that he met, 831 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,160 I think coming here and kind of seeing what it's like 832 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:02,920 and just having... 833 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,320 Just having a better understanding... 834 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,120 ..but still really wishing he hadn't ever come. 835 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,400 And I suppose it's just to say to people, just don't do it. 836 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,840 Just take a minute. Take a minute. 837 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,800 Talk to somebody. Lift the phone. 838 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:33,120 Go... You know, go make a cup of tea, a cup of coffee. 839 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,320 Just do something. Take a minute, 840 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,080 and don't do it, because... 841 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,760 ..the impact on everybody, particularly Finn - 842 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,840 you know, anybody that has children, don't think 843 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,640 that they'll be better off for you because they absolutely won't. 844 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,080 That is just a lie. That is just not true. 845 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,760 And I don't know how we kind of get to the stage 846 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,440 where that message gets across. 847 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,880 If this helps somebody, I hope somebody listens. I really do. 848 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,680 It's a pretty unbelievable end to an unbelievable trip. 849 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,880 That's an understatement! This is out of this world. 850 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,800 It's jaw-dropping, this view. 851 00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:31,360 And do you think we kind of set out what you hoped to achieve 852 00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,080 and connect more with your dad? 853 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,480 Oh, 100%, yeah. 854 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:36,520 This is... 855 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,400 ..probably the best experience I've had in my life. 856 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,840 And I certainly feel closer to my dad now. 857 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,000 I needed this. 858 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,000 I love you, sweetheart. Love you, too. 859 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,840 Across Northern Ireland, suicide rates remain stubbornly high. 860 00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,800 For the past 14 years, 861 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,520 Alfie has run a Facebook site offering help and support 862 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,240 for those in crisis. 863 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:25,880 He's done it anonymously - 864 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,320 one man's efforts to make a difference. 865 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,960 The two of us have been through the same bereavement 866 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:33,840 of losing loved ones. 867 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,120 And I keep asking... People keep asking me, 868 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,680 "How does other people deal with it?" 869 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,640 How do you deal with it? 870 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,440 I know, but I suppose it's... 871 00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,120 I mean, you know, my career is asking people 872 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,840 questions about things like that. 873 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,760 You know, I talked to you after Alfred died, 874 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,880 and I suppose it's a bit of, if I'm expecting people to do that, 875 00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,320 I should be able to answer those questions as well, 876 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,120 and I think that was the motivation. 877 00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,520 You know, your motivation has been the Facebook page 878 00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:06,720 and to talk to people and help people. 879 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:09,880 And I've probably been very quiet about it, 880 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,800 particularly while my children were young and while my nephew was young. 881 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,680 But I suppose now that they're all kind of growing up a bit, 882 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,720 it feels the right time to look at it 883 00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:24,680 and just to see, is there anything else that I can do? 884 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,120 Is there something you can do? Is there something we can do? 885 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,320 But on a personal view between the two of us 886 00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,600 and living through it, it's... you're still a human being, 887 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:33,960 you still have the feeling. 888 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,200 I still go through the emotions of Alfred, 889 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,360 which I'm going through now with my granddaughter. 890 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,800 Every time you would go to a door and ask about a suicide, 891 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:47,960 it's bound to bring emotions back about your loved one that you lost. 892 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:52,440 But I think it's... You know, when I heard about your granddaughter, 893 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,280 it just knocked me for six, you know - 894 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,560 the thought of you having to go through that again 895 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,120 with such a young child. 896 00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,800 And every time... You know, I have friends who have lost people 897 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,840 through suicide, you know, around the time that my brother died 898 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,040 and since, and every time, just - you must be the same - 899 00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,440 it just gets you right in the pit of your stomach, cos you know 900 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,560 what's ahead and what's facing them and how difficult it is. 901 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:25,240 My whole motivation is - and I'll say it again, like a broken record - 902 00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:27,680 I don't want any family to go down the road 903 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,600 that your family and my family have went down. 904 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,800 Alfred's not coming back. But if I stop somebody going where Alfred is, 905 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,440 it'll make me feel as if I've done something for someone. 906 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,400 Hello! Come on in. 907 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,400 It's 15 years since Richard died, and we have decided to host 908 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,800 an exhibition of his work for some family and friends. 909 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,320 I think that could go... These are the top maybes. 910 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,400 Oh, really? I like that one. So do I. 911 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,000 What one is he talking about? Let me see the ones you're taking away! 912 00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,480 Oi! Let me see the ones you're taking away. 913 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,760 Oh, that has to go in. That's the newest. 914 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,760 Despite everything we've been through, I feel fortunate 915 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,440 that I've been able to learn more about my brother 916 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,480 all these years after his death. 917 00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,600 And I'm grateful that Finn has been able to do the same. 918 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:24,440 I appreciate not every family is in the same position. 919 00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:25,880 Happy? Yep. 920 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,760 Such a kind of cross-section of all the people involved in our lives 921 00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,280 that have kind of come here tonight and shared something, 922 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,440 and it does feel like the first time we've been able 923 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:04,360 to celebrate his life and his work. And to do that with Finn here, 924 00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,000 front and centre, you know, he has this big network 925 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,480 that's connected to his dad, it's just been... 926 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,120 it's just been really lovely. 927 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,880 If he was still with us, he'd still be out there 928 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:19,280 taking all these images. 929 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:20,960 Nothing ever changes. 930 00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,520 We never learn. And Richard captured all of that brilliantly. 931 00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,680 And we look at that human suffering, 932 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:30,040 and yet it goes on and it will continue to go on. 933 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:34,600 And I have a funny feeling that's maybe what affected Richard as well, 934 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,400 that he knew, "Nothing's gonna change." 935 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,000 For men over here anyway, you know, it happens too often. 936 00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,880 I mean, losing a father or mother at a young age is terrible. 937 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,240 And if it's down to something that we can prevent - 938 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,640 like mental health purposes, which we can prevent - 939 00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,960 we need to do everything that we can to prevent it. 940 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:04,360 You know, I don't want another child to have the kind of pain 941 00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:08,240 that I did growing up, because it's no way to grow up, you know? 128167

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