Original subtitles

[Peggy]

[Grosse]

[Peggy]

[Bill] Here. We should have a little talk.

I come to see my wife

but then she weren’t here...

and I found out she was dead.

I’m Bill...

I’m a G-H-O-S-T.

[director] Mark it.

[beeping]

And action.

Think of yourselves as a jury now.

I come along to you, and I say, "A girl has levitated.

She seemed to float round the room."

You say, "Right. You’re hallucinating."

That’s the usual thing. "You’re hallucinating."

You know? "You’re going round the bend. No such thing can happen."

But...

[Robertson] What’s happening now?

[Robertson] I can’t get in. There’s a really strong force pushing the door.

What’s happening? What? What?

[children whimpering, screaming]

[distorted audio]

- [screaming, breathing heavily] - [Peggy] Janet. Janet.

- [Billy crying] - And I could see her going up

and down, up and down.

[Morris] She’s gone from that to that in a sixth of a second.

Dragged. Like this. Like-Like this.

[Grosse] She’s showing being pulled forward with her hands together.

The chair, which was standing by Janet’s bed, appears to have moved.

[Grosse] The chair’s been thrown nine feet.

[Janet] Help!

[Peggy] Now the chair gone over.

[Bill] I’m Bill Wilkinson.

I come from Durants Park graveyard.

I had an hemorrhage, and I fell asleep,

and I died in a chair in a corner downstairs.

Now, that is what I call first-class evidence.

[Gregory] Maurice Grosse seems to imagine that the often barely audible

and very noisy sound recordings, of which he plays snatches at meetings,

constitute facts that others have to disprove

if they are to challenge paranormality at Enfield.

Now can you say, "Anita Gregory"?

Come on. "Anita Gregory."

[Gregory] I have visited the house on four occasions.

Come on. Come on, try. I know it’s hard. Say, "Anita Gregory."

The extremely uncritical attitude

of Maurice Grosse and Guy Playfair

seems to me to cast doubt on their reliability

as interpreters of experience.

[Grosse] The cry that I so often hear is,

"You want to believe, so you believe."

We’re talking about assessing the evidence

because this is very, very important.

First of all, a deep, gruff, male staccato voice

coming from the child, Janet, 11 years--

[Carr] The Enfield case had been going on for about six months.

It was already very famous.

It had been reported in the media and on television.

[members chattering]

Quite a lot of people were critical of the investigations,

and I know that Maurice and Guy were certainly upset by that.

From their perspective,

they were spending all their time on this case.

And yet, here they saw these, you know, rather dry,

academic types in the SPR who were just expressing skepticism.

[Grosse] Janet didn’t even know what a poltergeist was.

How is it that she spoke in the same manner as poltergeists

were reported two centuries ago?

How does a child of 11 years old cope with this sort of voice?

- [person on TV, indistinct] - [audience cheering]

[Grosse] Janet still maintains that the only thing she feels when it talks

is a vibration in the back of her head and neck.

I’ve explained to her that she is talking in this voice,

but she maintains she is unaware of it.

I have, as yet, found no reason to disbelieve what she says.

[Grosse] We’ve seen, quite clearly, time and time again,

that the voice talks through her without any movement of her lips whatsoever.

I mean, people who should know better say, "Well, that’s ventriloquism."

Well, you produce me the ventriloquist who can talk without even a tremor

on his lips and articulate correctly.

I’d like to see it.

I mean, absolutely impossible.

I mean, if she was a ventriloquist,

she’d be world’s number one.

Mr. Ray Alan.

[audience cheering]

[Alan as Lord Charles, slurring] Thank you so much for having me.

Ladies and gentlemen, I apologize. I’ve had a couple.

[audience chuckling]

[Morris] One evening we’re at the house.

I’ve looked out the window,

and this unbelievably expensive car has pitched up outside.

This chap got out. I thought... [sighs] ..."I recognize him."

Yes, it was TV ventriloquist Ray Alan.

Ventriloquist.

What is going on? [chuckles]

[Bence] The managing editor of the Mirror sent Ray Alan round.

I can only assume the motivation was to discredit that whole saga.

I was horrified when I found out.

[Morris] He was there to work out whether it was physically possible

for Janet to make those voices.

[Bence] Ray Alan was a very funny man,

but if you were choosing a team of people to gather evidence,

you wouldn’t put Ray Alan in the team.

He wouldn’t have been sympathetic.

[Morris] He took them off into a room on their own,

so no one ever knew what was said in there.

[Bence] I think the family were looked down on.

All national newspapers were skeptical, I think, of paranormal stories.

[reporters chattering]

The Mirror was under pressure.

If you want to knock it as a story, you’ll knock it.

The story was run that Ray Alan said they put on the voices themselves.

They giggled and laughed about it.

You know, they’d play tricks.

[Grosse] Friday, March the 31st.

This morning, Mrs. Hodgson phoned me

about the article in the Daily Mirror printed yesterday.

She said that Margaret was most disturbed at the accusations.

I reached the family at 12:00 noon.

Now, Janet, please come over here.

Ja-Janet, please pay attention.

Come on. Look, this is very serious.

Now, listen. Did you, Janet,

say to them that you had faked the voices?

So-- No.

No, because they didn’t ask me, and I haven’t faked ’em anyway.

How did he get that idea then? I mean, what exactly happened?

Said that he’d been up here... [stammers]

...and that you’d, uh, given them a long confession to practically everything.

Margaret. Will you come over here, Margaret dear?

What did he say to you, Margaret?

Come on, Margaret. This is terribly important.

You must tell me.

Come on, don’t worry about it. What did he say to you?

He was saying-- [stammers]

I don’t know what he was talking about.

He was just saying things I didn’t understand.

[Grosse] What was he saying? Sa--

Well, you see, words I didn’t understand.

You didn’t understand what he was saying, Margaret?

- [Margaret] No. - And so what did you say to him?

I was just daydreaming, thinking about what I need for school tomorrow.

I wasn’t listening to him at all. I was thinking what I need.

And I’m going like this all the time.

- Yeah. - Nodding, that’s all.

Okay, so you were nodding your head?

- That’s right. - Yeah.

- I was just daydreaming. [sighs] - [Grosse] I see.

Now, listen, I’m going to ask you a question.

He said that you said you and Janet had got together to fake the voices.

- Now, is that true? Yes or no? - No.

[Grosse] You definitely did not say it?

I did not say that even if I nodded.

- You definitely didn’t say it? - I didn’t say it with my own mouth, no.

- You didn’t say it with your own mouth. - No.

Do you think the voice might have said it? As far as you know--

My voice didn’t speak once while they was in here,

so I don’t know why they picked on me.

Well, listen, Mr. Grosse and I have got to know absolutely everything

- that wasn’t quite genuine, you know? - [Grosse sighs]

Otherwise, it’s gonna make a lot of m-mess in our work.

You must understand it from our point of view, you know?

That we’re trying to defend you against these people,

so we’ve got to be absolutely certain.

[Margaret] I was always a nervous child.

I was never that strong.

I always cry at a bat of an eyelid if someone said something wrong to me.

I remember approaching teenage years and being very scared and frightened.

And I couldn’t understand why this was going on

and what it could be.

And that really emotionally upset me.

Now, Margaret, have you at any time faked the voice at all?

No. Never. You absolutely never?

You have not? Yeah, I’m quite sure.

Now, do you think that Janet has ever faked the voice?

- Not that I know of, no. No. - Not that you know of.

Have you ever faked any of the physical things that have happened?

[Margaret] No.

Definitely not? Definitely not.

Not even one of them?

No. On my life.

On your life. Right. Thank you.

Why would I say it was a fake?

How could I say it was a fake? I-I can’t.

[Grosse] Come on, Margaret. I said you can go to sleep as well.

Go on then. Good girl.

[Richard] My father had three children, and we were all quite naughty.

And we played games, and he knew--

knew perfectly well when a child was playing a game.

[Grosse through recorder] No, thank you.

I don’t want you turning my tape recorder as far as...

[Richard] For someone to come along and say that everything was a game.

That, uh, Janet was the greatest ventriloquist in the world.

[inhales deeply] Uh, that she, um, was the greatest magician in the world.

Uh, that the two of these girls were so brilliant

at their deception capabilities, that they could, um-- They could fool, um,

you know, professionals in-- [stammers]

Of every standing, um, is, frankly, laughable.

[Margaret] Things escalated with the press quite fast.

- [typewriter keys clacking] - It was disturbing.

Papers were coming after us. They were saying different things.

Some was okay, some weren’t.

There was all different people coming in the house, and that scared me.

[Grosse] Hello?

[Bence] When the story became more well-known in the United States,

there was a lot of pressure,

and they were very fragile, this family.

[radio host]

[Grosse]

[speaks indistinctly]

[Peggy]

Something that we didn’t understand at first.

[Margaret] Before we knew it, different countries were phoning us.

[interviewer speaking French]

[interviewer speaking Dutch]

[Margaret] People from all over the world just wanted to know what was going on.

The more it escalated, the more press,

the more people wanted to come and see.

This is what they’re saying in the paper today.

- "The guttural voice... - [Peggy chuckles]

...like that of an old man, swears,

threats and growls like an animal.

’It is the voice of the devil’"--

[Bence] The Warrens were a couple of ghost hunters.

[television presenter] For those who lived through The Amityville Horror,

the emotional shock still lingers.

The Warrens have investigated many disturbed houses.

And they examined the empty house...

Whenever you got these odd things reported,

um, they would be banging on the door.

If we say that we hear voices, uh, of a supernatural nature,

such as in the Enfield home in England,

- they can’t go to the police. - [interviewer] All on a level. No baloney.

When we say somebody levitates...

[Lorraine] You’ll have to find out. - ...there’s no scientist

in the world today

who could dispute the evidence that we have

in regards to the preternatural and the supernatural

and possession of individuals.

Let’s face it. So, whatever I say is only conjecture.

When I came on this case, it was obvious to me it was genuine.

It had all the hallmarks of a poltergeist case

as soon as I walked into the house.

And of course, first thing we looked for is fraud, but I didn’t find any.

- Right. - But we certainly have had

the children motivated, apparently motivated,

- to do things against their will. - Mm-hmm.

- [Grosse] Now-- Yes, instructed. - Instructed.

Now, I believe that in lots of poltergeist cases

where people have walked in and seen children do the things, they’ve said,

- "That’s a fake. That’s a f"-- - Well, we call it oppression.

- Uh, the-- the child is oppressed. - Mmm. Being instructed--

Their thoughts are oppressed to explain something...

- [Lorraine] Mmm. - ...and immediately they are the culprit.

The inexperienced investigator will say,

- "Well, it’s all fraud." - Fraud.

[Grosse] That’s it. Good. Good. I’m delighted to hear you say this.

- We’ve seen this time and time again. - Yes, we’ve heard it many times.

- Of course not. - [Ed] We understand--

Well, I’m glad you do because I have had rather a few arguments here

with people I-I should’ve thought would know better.

Of course. But the man who will say that it is not so, Mr. Grosse,

we find to be a man who spends most of the time in the lab...

- Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. - ...and very little time in the field.

[Grosse] Psychic phenomena are elusive.

They do not conform to the dictates

of our very limited knowledge of the universe.

The hardened skeptics may dismiss the evidence out of hand,

but if anything, I’ve been over-cautious and over-careful in my approach.

[Grosse] If you’re looking at a poltergeist case,

it’s no good taking this bit and saying, "The kids played around here."

And this bit saying, "Mr. what’s-name did this

and Mrs. what’s-name"--

You gotta look at the whole area.

[SPR member] Can I ask you on the ethical front, how far are you willing to go?

You’re in this girl’s bedrooms, uh--

- [Grosse] Mmm. - You know, how far are you going here?

If you say this happened, and then someone says it didn’t,

that’s a challenge to your integrity.

[Grosse] With respect, you can pull each scene apart,

but you gotta take the whole thing collectively.

What-What-What are we looking for?

He could argue.

At the end of the day, you have got to say

whether you think it’s a genuine case or not a genuine case.

It’s as simple and as difficult as that.

And if he felt someone affronted him...

he would fight his corner.

[Grosse through recorder] I may be-- I may be too dogmatic,

but I-- All right, then you give me somebody who can speak

with their mouths closed, and I’ll give you £500. In my d--

[SPR members murmur]

Dad... [chuckles] ...was quite opinionated and quite argumentative.

[Grosse] I’ve offered £1,000 to anybody who can produce a girl

under similar circumstances, and it’s never been taken up.

[Richard] He’s confident, he’s tenacious, and he’s pugnacious.

Undaunted. Single-minded.

All right, time is, uh, ten o’clock.

[Grosse hums]

[Grosse sighs]

What’s that for?

[Janet mumbling]

As far as I can see,

the tape is absolutely, completely sealed over her mouth.

Now, just a minute, before we do anything else, Janet,

try and say, "Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do."

[Janet mumbles]

- Try. - [Peggy] Just try.

[mumbles]

- Why can’t you do it? - [mumbles]

’Cause the plaster is sticking your lips together?

Right. And that’s why I used this particular type of plaster.

[Grosse] No, she can breathe through her mouth all right.

[Grosse through headphones] We’re going to try and record the voice.

Are you there, Bill?

Bill, can’t you talk when Janet’s got her mouth taped up?

[mumbles]

Janet, don’t you say anything. Just let him talk.

Come on, Bill. Come on. What have you got to say for yourself?

- I’m-I’m facing the wall now, like you-- - [Bill growls]

- What’s that? What did you say? - [Bill growls]

Listen, can you-- can you say something clearly to me?

Can you say to me, "Shut the door"?

[Bill growls]

[Grosse] No, that’s not very good.

You can do better than that. Say it.

[Bill] Shut the door.

[Grosse] Oh, that was good. Okay, say something else.

What else can you say?

Say, "Hello, Mr. Grosse."

[Bill] Hello, Mr. Grosse.

[Grosse] Well, that’s impossible, isn’t it?

That is fantastic. The voice was pretty clear there.

So, I’m going to try something else now.

- Right, take the water into your mouth. - [Peggy, Margaret chattering]

I want to see how much water you take, all right?

Now hold that amount of water in your mouth, all right? Right.

Now, off we go again.

I challenge you to talk.

Come on. I’m waiting for you.

[exhaling sharply]

What’s the matter? What does that mean?

You can’t do it, hey? I’m surprised. I thought you could do it.

[exhales sharply]

What’d you say? You can? Well, do it then.

[Paul] I remember feeling uncomfortable...

but as a kid, you don’t know what’s going on.

Say, "Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do."

Or something else. I don’t mind what you say.

Anything you like, but I want proper words.

Bill. Bill, you know that you’re famous, don’t you?

You’re very famous now.

[echoing] Will you say a sentence for me? Come on now.

I say that you can’t talk when Janet’s got her mouth full of water.

Go-- Go on then. I’m wondering if you can say it now. Come on.

Bill. Bill.

[Janet chokes]

[Bill] Daisy. Daisy.

- [coughing] - [Grosse] Janet.

No. Janet, why didn’t you spit the water out until I told you?

- [Janet] You always-- - No, I-I don’t want you to do anything

until I tell you.

You spat the water out too soon.

- [Janet] He made me. - I know he made you do it.

I know he made you do it, but you mustn’t do it--

You must wait until I get in. You--

I can’t help it.

[Grosse] Janet, please try and cooperate with me, all right?

- Mmm. - [Grosse] You did very, very well then.

You did very well indeed, and so did he.

He did very well.

[Paul] I’m not gonna go with hindsight.

I’m saying at the time, to me, it was real.

In a field where deception and self-deception

are the rule.

A field where the imagination may, in fact,

play an active and creative part

in producing that which is being investigated.

How does one justify a claim to knowledge?

To reasonable belief?

What degree of certainty is it reasonable to demand?

[Blackmore] The SPR was full of people who were hunting for phenomena

to prove psychic things happen,

without being really interested in how we could understand the phenomena

in-in other ways.

Anita Gregory was very intelligent.

And she valued openness and honesty,

and listening to the evidence in science.

[Janet screaming]

[Janet cries]

[Grosse] Right, back into bed.

[thuds]

- She’s on the bed this time. - [Janet crying]

- [gasps] You didn’t get that? - Stop where you are. Oh.

Uh, Anita Gregory. Hi.

[Grosse] Go on, in-in you go. In you go.

Saw with your eyes, she was right on the bed that time.

Billy, I don’t want any more crying.

[Janet] God, I was pulled out that time.

- Were you there when she was-- - Yes. Yes.

Janet, how do you feel this time?

Is it doing the same to you this time as it does before?

- [Janet] Yeah. - Tell them how it gets hold of you.

It pulls you up by the hands?

Does it feel as if it’s holding you all the way

- when you go through the air? - [Janet] Yes.

- Yes. Yes. - [Grosse] Are you sure?

[Janet]

What about the blankets?

- What does it do about those? - What do you mean about them?

[Gregory] Well, uh, they push you back quite a bit, don’t they?

Mmm.

Does it push them along with you?

[Janet] Nah.

[Bill] Get out. You old slut.

That old cow, I don’t like her.

[Grosse] Who’s that?

[Bill] Anita Gregory.

[Grosse] Why don’t you like her?

[Bill] ’Cause she don’t believe me.

She will when I pull her pants down.

[Blackmore] I think it is not at all surprising

that when Anita went there,

much less happened than when Maurice was there.

If you ask me what a poltergeist is... [inhales sharply]

...I-- [stammers, exclaims]

I-I don’t know, a collection of phenomena

driven by, usually, a family situation.

I mean, there’s usually children involved, not always.

Um, there’s usually all kinds of tensions and things going on.

[Gregory] The trouble is that this sort of case

is an unwholesome and painful mixture

of personal and social pathology...

[typewriter bell dings]

...play-acting, group interaction,

self-deception, trickery, ego-tripping,

and conceivably, some authentic paranormality.

The real problem is disentangling them.

[knocking]

[knocking]

- I saw you banging on the floor, Janet. - [Janet] I didn’t.

[Grosse] I saw you.

- I saw you bang. - [Janet] I didn’t bang.

[Grosse] I saw you bang.

I didn’t bang.

I saw you bang.

You may not have known you banged,

but I know you banged ’cause I saw you.

- All right? - No, I’m not all right.

[Grosse] Control yourself. Control yourself.

- I can’t control myself. - [Grosse] Or control it.

Control it to stop you banging.

[Janet] I’m not gonna control.

- Huh? - I’m not gonna control it.

- It’s not my fault. - It is if you don’t control it.

I can’t!

Can’t what?

Can’t say.

[whispers] All right.

[Bill] Silly old sod.

[Bill through recorder] Silly old sod. Fucking old bastard.

[Grosse] I’ve often wondered how many paranormal cases

have failed to be recognized

because the investigator saw a childish prank?

[Grosse through recorder] Did anybody touch this tape recorder?

- [Janet] No. - [Peggy] Nope.

[Grosse] I personally would be surprised if the children from time to time

had not attempted to copy events.

[through recorder] Will you all close your eyes

and go to sleep now, please. Stop looking for things.

The more you look for things, the more they’re gonna happen.

[Grosse] Because they’re so boisterous at the moment,

I’m ignoring all present phenomena as evidence.

[overlapping chatter, through recorder]

[Roz] I was definitely, um, on the alert.

I didn’t automatically believe everything.

But then I didn’t automatically dismiss it.

- [Grosse] Did you just write this? - [Bill] What?

[Roz] Janet used to say, "it’s doing this," "it’s doing that."

- [Grosse] Did you just write it? - You couldn’t tell

whether some of it was coming from the conscious or unconscious minds

of Janet and-and Margaret. You just couldn’t tell.

[Janet muttering, sobbing]

[Peggy] What’s the matter?

[sobbing]

- [Peggy] Tell me. - [breathing shakily]

[Janet] I don’t wanna sleep in here.

Do you know why that is, ’cause she’s being watched.

[Janet] I wanna get out of here!

[cries]

[sobbing] I wanna get out of here.

[Grosse] What’s the matter with Janet?

[Peggy] She said she’s gonna kill someone in a minute.

Excuse me, Janet. Excuse me, Janet. Come out, Janet.

As it happens, there’s one knife missing downstairs.

- Janet. [shushes] - [Janet mutters]

[Grosse] I can’t hear what you’re saying, darling.

No good talking like that. Now, tell me what you’re saying.

[Janet] I don’t wanna sleep in here.

Why not, Janet?

I’m being watched all the time.

Who’s watching you?

- [sobbing continues] - Who’s watching you?

- [Janet] I will fucking kill him. - [Grosse shushes]

Here, stop swearing.

Janet, turn round and let me look at you, come on.

Come on, get your head up. Come on.

Nobody’s watching you and nobody’s blaming you.

Goodness me, Janet, you’ve known me long enough now.

Nobody’s blaming you at all.

Being where?

Now listen. Well, because it’s using you,

you’re the only one who can try and stop it doing this. All right?

I’m trying to make it so that it doesn’t worry you all the time,

that’s what I’m trying to do.

And it’s a very hard job, Janet, I’m trying to do.

I know it’s very nasty for you as well.

It’s very nasty for your mum, it’s very nasty for Margaret and Billy.

Do you understand that? I’m doing it to help you, Janet.

[clicks tongue]

[Janet through recorder] Mom. [crying]

[Peggy] Christ! What’s the matter?

[Peggy] What’s the matter?

[Janet] I can’t tell you.

- [crying continues] - [child Margaret] Sit down, sit down.

[Margaret] I remember being very, very scared for Janet, you know. [mumbles]

- [Janet] I can’t tell you! - [child Margaret] Just tell us.

[child Janet crying, speaks indistinctly]

When the things was happening, I didn’t understand fully what was going on.

And then we had questions at school.

Children coming after Janet.

Some kids coming round the house shouting outside the window.

Uh, pointing at us in the streets,

some calling Janet possessed, some calling me a witch.

"Ghosty, are you in there?" and run off and all that.

I get very tearful over it, even now and I get very upset.

- [interviewer] There was nowhere-- - [gasps] To run.

’Cause inside you’ve... [stammers] ...experienced all this,

I wasn’t getting...

in my mind, anywhere away from it.

[Peggy] Can you tell Mr. Grosse what you actually saw, Janet?

You said you saw a face on the wall.

[Grosse] Okay, what sort of face?

A man’s face.

- [Grosse] Can you describe it? - Yeah.

- He had gray hair. - [Grosse] Yeah?

- And he was all wrinkled. - Mmm.

And he had brown eyes.

Is it the sort of face you’d seen before? Have you seen him before?

No.

[Bill] Bill wants to come now.

Turn around.

[screams]

[Grosse] Try not to be frightened by it.

- Some of the-- You have-- - I’m not frightened for myself.

No, you’re frightened for Janet, and I appreciate that.

Myself. I’m more frightened for Janet.

Margaret said to me the other day,

and then she said there’s something wrong with Janet.

She’s very peculiar lately.

Janet’s full of hate.

And this is her when she’s on her own. I’ll show you.

She never does it when anyone’s here.

Continually.

Mrs. Hodgson is sitting on the, uh, settee.

She’s rocking backwards and forwards and rubbing her hands round and round.

- This is Janet. She’s like this. - Yes, I’ve seen Janet do that.

- I’ve seen Janet do that. - Yeah.

[Peggy] She did say to me the other week,

she said "this thing, this thing" she kept saying.

She knows there’s something there.

[screams]

[Pincott] "In the evening I went to Enfield

by the Piccadilly line and 1-0-7 bus.

Maurice Grosse, Guy Playfair and David Robertson were there.

The talking poltergeist, in quotes, was much improved. Very fluent."

[Pincott] Bill, can David-- David Robertson come in? Can he come in?

[Bill groans] Yeah.

The girls were getting still quite a lot of disturbances at night,

being thrown out of bed, that kind of thing.

[whispering indistinctly]

And the voice was very strong at that time.

[Bill] David, come in.

Hello, Davey boy.

Hello. - Hello.

Can I turn around to face you?

No, you’ll scare me.

I want you to tell me something.

Go on then.

[Bill] I wanna know about periods for girls.

Would you like to talk with someone else?

[Bill] No, you. You’re a boy, you’ll know.

- When you earl-earlier on-- - Don’t change the subject!

I wanna talk about periods!

Being dirty, why can’t you stop being dirty?

[Robertson] Do you want to take over? Come on, it’s all right.

- [Pincott] All right, I will, if you want. - Great.

[Janet] He’s being a bit dirty now.

[Pincott] Oh, so we heard it, yeah.

Why do girls have periods?

Let me see if I can explain.

You probably know that um, inside little girls, uh--

Big girls.

Or big girls, yes.

There is a little egg and it comes out--

Ou-out of a certain part of the body.

And, um, this happens every month.

And you can’t keep these eggs there permanently because they go stale.

So what you have to do is to provide a new one every month.

Does that help about the periods?

Why...

Do...

[Hugh] Why do what?

Men...

[Robertson] Why do men what?

[Bill] Wear...

Those things?

What things?

What-What things?

[Pincott] What things, Bill?

Those things.

[Pincott] What do they look like?

What do you mean clothes?

[Bill] No.

What then?

[Bill] Plastic things.

[Pincott] Plastic things?

[Bill] In bed with a woman.

Aah, yes. Well, that’s-- that’s fairly simple.

[Grosse] Is my tape going? The one on the wall.

Yes. Righto.

[Pincott] Don’t go away, will you?

We’ll do our best to answer.

[Blackmore] They were mostly men who did these investigations.

And I think they didn’t take

enough account of the psychology of children.

[Bill] How do girls have babies?

Now never mind about babies. Will you forget about sex?

Is there anything else you want to know? There must be something else.

Well, I’ll tell you what, I’ll ask you a question.

Bill? Bill, stop bouncing on the bed, Bill. Come on, Bill. Pack it up.

On the whole, women then, especially talking that long ago,

when-when most children were looked after mostly by their mothers,

and most mothers didn’t work,

and most women would have been much more familiar with ’kids play’

and why and what they’re like and so on.

Pack it up. All right, all right, all right, okay.

- Okay, Bill. [speaks indistinctly] - [Blackmore] And these were

well-educated male scientists with very little experience of young kids.

Not realizing that that was relevant.

[Playfair] You know that there are people

who consider that you don’t exist at all,

you’re simply a fragment of Janet’s subconscious.

What do you think of that sort of theory?

[Bill] What do you mean?

Well, as we know, people have a consciousness

and some people think that people like you

are, in fact, part of the consciousness of, in this case, Janet.

Are you Janet?

[Janet] There was always a feeling like,

before anything really sort of surfaced properly, I think, you know?

Yeah, looking back, yeah.

It was like there was something there, but you couldn’t explain it.

And I was at that age where you’re just finding yourself.

Mum and Dad had divorced.

I’d left primary school and I was starting secondary school.

And that is an unsettling time.

It is difficult to work out who you are then.

And then when you were at school, you think "what am I going home to?

I don’t know where I wanna be."

You just feel so confused in what’s gonna happen when I do get home.

I felt used and possessed.

The voice was using me.

It was a feeling like it was behind me.

And it was like a-a gruff-- Very gruff deep voice.

Horrible experience.

[child Janet screaming]

[Grosse] Janet, tell me what’s the matter.

- [screaming, straining] - [Peggy] Janet.

[Grosse] Tell me what’s the matter.

- [Peggy] Janet? - [Grosse] Listen to me.

- No, it’s only me, it’s only me. - [Peggy] Janet.

[Grosse] I think she’s angry.

[screaming, straining continues]

[Janet] Now when I saw-- Go over in my mind the things that did happen,

it makes me go cold.

And it was like a-a force.

[Grosse] It’s all right,

[Peggy] We need a doctor.

[screaming]

[Margaret] Janet was totally in a different place. It was frightening.

- And one evening we couldn’t get her back. - [screaming, mumbles]

[Grosse] Yes?

[Janet] Get off me! [crying]

- Who-- Who do you want? - Graham.

- Graham’s here. He’s here. - [Janet breathing heavily, whimpering]

[Morris] She was thrashing about, and she was gonna hurt herself.

[Peggy] Christ.

- [Morris shushes] - Steady. Steady.

Steady on. Steady on. There’s a good girl. There’s a good girl.

[Margaret] Maurice was doing everything he could,

- and my mum was crying. I was scared. - [screams]

[Janet]

Yes, Daddy’s here.

[grunts, groans]

[Grosse] I-- We’re here. We’re here.

We are-- I’m here.

[shushes] [screaming]

All right, all right. Nobody’s--

Yes, yes. All right, it’s all right.

Nobody’s hurting-- Nobody is hurting you, Janet. Nobody is hurting you.

[Peggy] That’s the impression she’s giving me. That she’s being hurt.

[Morris] The doctor was called and he ended up giving her a tranquilizer

which he said would knock out a horse.

[screaming] You’re hurting me.

You’re hurting me. You’re hurting me. [crying]

I just remember the doctor being there and giving her this shot and it--

it didn’t work. It was horrible.

[Janet screams]

Yeah, she calmed down eventually.

[Janet crying]

[Grosse] All right. Yes. All right.

[Grosse] If anybody should ask me if I was frightened

in the course of my investigations,

I would definitely say "yes" to this phenomenon of apparent possession.

Especially when it is accompanied by a show of violence

that verges on the self-destructive.

The first time I saw this at Enfield, I was really scared.

Not for myself, but for what might happen to that child.

[indistinct chattering]

[doctor] Who’s that-- Who’s that child--

[Grosse] It’s Janet. Now, here you are. Janet, Janet Hodgson.

[Morris] Later, I’m downstairs. I heard a crash from upstairs.

First person in there was John Burcombe, her uncle.

And there’s a big old radio.

And Janet is up on top of the whole-- of the whole thing,

lying-lying across it.

Asleep or just coming round.

[Playfair]

- I mean he’s-- - [Janet] Maurice cared about us.

[Playfair]

[Janet] He did come to try and help

but he probably never experienced anything on this scale before.

Everything had gone, normality and normal life.

Because of what was happening.

That’s the only thing. Well, I mean, you have to make it-- [stammers]

Do-Do what we can to try and stop it.

And if that fails, the only way that never fails is to--

is to split up, you know, because then only one of you can get it.

Um, I should think probably it would be Janet.

[Peggy] She seems to be more susceptible

because she was more susceptible than Margaret to begin with I think.

- Oh, much more. - Definitely.

Yes, this just won’t stop.

We just have to use drastic methods, you know?

It’s gonna be a bit rough on everybody.

It gets a bit dicey.

It means separating the family, you know.

It’s the only way.

[Peggy] I’ll be honest with you,

I don’t think this is gonna stop.

I think it’s just gonna go on, and on, and on.

We will have to separate the children, this is my opinion.

Yeah, but where do we go?

Well, if it won’t stop, you would have to be taken to a special home.

What sticks out in me mind now, in my-my later years, is my mum.

She did what she could, but it wasn’t easy for her.

Mum and Dad weren’t together anymore.

The upset of me brother Johnny going away to school.

Poor Johnny.

There was only a year between me and him.

Mum would-wouldn’t really say too much about the problem.

But I know he was quite a handful

and I think they thought it would be best if he went away.

And then the family s-sort of split up.

You know there was six of us and then suddenly there was, like,

just Mum and the three of us.

Now, you know, she had to make a choice

for me to go into a children’s home.

[Grosse] The time is now ten past nine and this is Peggy Nottingham.

And she’s just going to tell about Mrs. Hodgson coming into her house

this morning and how she felt.

She’s really gone through a lot, ain’t she?

- [Grosse] Mmm. - She really has.

And I think she’s put up with a lot.

Too much for anyone.

She just sat there and broke down.

And she said, "I got up this morning

and I see some tablets in the cupboard, bottle of tablets,"

she said, "and I got hold of them in me hand

and I thought of the children."

she said, otherwise, she said, "If it hadn’t been for my children,"

she said, "I would have took the lot of them."

I always find it’s always the bad things that stick in your mind.

Strangest part about it, I can always remember the bad things

more than anything else.

Johnny going away was the biggest heartbreak of the lot,

I’ll never forget that day.

Ooh, you don’t know what a wrench it is.

A seven-year-old child, going away like that.

[stammers] I can see him now on that coach.

I’ll never forget that.

I don’t know, I never thought we’d wind up like we are,

a really broken family.

[Janet] For me, it was like,

"Oh, my God, where am I gonna land, you know?"

"What’s going to happen to me?"

"Am I gonna be left alone after this, you know?"

["This Angry Silence" playing]