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00:00:03,170 --> 00:00:05,340
[Rocket] Now,
listen to this one.
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00:00:05,365 --> 00:00:09,340
"The way scum like you helps
people like David Koresh,
3
00:00:09,540 --> 00:00:12,470
I hope all your
children die of, uh..."
4
00:00:12,657 --> 00:00:13,837
sheesh.
5
00:00:13,875 --> 00:00:15,600
Okay. Let's stay
focused here, can we?
6
00:00:15,707 --> 00:00:17,600
[Doug] Why do you insist
on reading that crap?
7
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,190
In case one of these maniacs
puts a bullet in my head
8
00:00:20,215 --> 00:00:21,670
like they all say they're gonna.
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00:00:21,695 --> 00:00:23,310
Give the cops a
good place to start.
10
00:00:23,335 --> 00:00:24,990
Yeah, I'm not sure
they'd try too hard
11
00:00:25,015 --> 00:00:26,826
to solve a case of the
cop-killer defenders.
12
00:00:26,850 --> 00:00:28,536
- [Rocket] Oh, yeah.
- That's a dark thought.
13
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,000
- Well...
- Shouldn't we be getting
14
00:00:30,060 --> 00:00:31,706
- security or something?
- [Jocelyn] Don't worry.
15
00:00:31,730 --> 00:00:33,780
I'll protect you from those
big mean letter writers.
16
00:00:33,867 --> 00:00:35,330
See, guys? Nothing
to worry about.
17
00:00:35,392 --> 00:00:36,950
Jocelyn's got our backs.
18
00:00:37,150 --> 00:00:38,450
[Doug] Let's get back to it.
19
00:00:38,650 --> 00:00:40,040
[Rocket] Wait.
20
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,886
- Fan mail?
- [Dan] What do you think...
21
00:00:41,910 --> 00:00:43,290
- Really?
- Yeah.
22
00:00:43,490 --> 00:00:45,920
- [Dan] ...about that?
- "Dear fine sirs...
23
00:00:47,670 --> 00:00:50,550
I have been very..." all caps,
24
00:00:50,750 --> 00:00:54,050
"interested in your case
defending those Davidians.
25
00:00:54,250 --> 00:00:58,180
There are lots of people like me
watching to see how this goes.
26
00:00:58,380 --> 00:01:00,690
Thank you for being
such good patriots."
27
00:01:00,890 --> 00:01:03,650
[Dan] Well, this
is nice, isn't it?
28
00:01:03,850 --> 00:01:05,900
Let's see. I'm going bankrupt.
29
00:01:06,100 --> 00:01:08,030
My wife who I haven't
seen in over a month
30
00:01:08,230 --> 00:01:11,070
just filed for divorce.
I'm living in squalor.
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00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:13,530
I'm getting about three
hours of sleep every night
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00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:15,376
to fight a losing case
for a bunch of people
33
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:16,870
who don't even like me,
34
00:01:17,070 --> 00:01:20,540
but when I hear the
praises of adoring fans
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00:01:20,740 --> 00:01:22,370
like Tim McVeigh,
36
00:01:22,570 --> 00:01:24,920
makes it all worth
it, doesn't it?
37
00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,000
Now, can we get back to work?
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00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,460
Tense music plays
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00:01:44,470 --> 00:01:48,020
theme music plays
40
00:02:46,950 --> 00:02:49,340
[Pappy] You say
you love America,
41
00:02:49,540 --> 00:02:52,380
but would you die for it?
42
00:02:53,460 --> 00:02:56,430
Would you kill for it?
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00:02:56,630 --> 00:02:59,300
I mean, some things
are worth fighting for.
44
00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:00,500
[people chattering]
45
00:03:00,630 --> 00:03:02,100
[Pappy] I wanna talk today
46
00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:04,680
about making ourselves ready,
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00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,650
emotionally steeling ourselves
48
00:03:08,850 --> 00:03:11,060
for the coming war.
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00:03:12,940 --> 00:03:17,660
The war against White America!
50
00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:19,820
- [murmuring]
- [Pappy] I want you to picture
51
00:03:20,020 --> 00:03:22,790
what that's gonna
be like. Picture...
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00:03:22,990 --> 00:03:25,830
the tanks rolling up our drives,
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00:03:26,030 --> 00:03:28,250
adrenaline coursing
through your body.
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00:03:28,750 --> 00:03:32,130
I want you to picture yourself
with your gun in your hand
55
00:03:32,330 --> 00:03:34,210
- and your kids behind you.
- [baby crying]
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00:03:34,370 --> 00:03:35,896
[Pappy] And I want you
to picture that again,
57
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,180
and again, and again
58
00:03:38,380 --> 00:03:42,050
until it become real to you.
59
00:03:42,250 --> 00:03:44,310
So that when the time comes,
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00:03:44,510 --> 00:03:46,980
you won't hesitate
to pull the trigger.
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00:03:47,180 --> 00:03:49,690
[baby crying]
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00:03:49,890 --> 00:03:52,520
[Pappy] Because having the
nerve to pull the trigger
63
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,690
is precisely what...
64
00:03:54,890 --> 00:03:56,860
[whispers] His granddaddy
founded the Nazi party.
65
00:03:57,060 --> 00:03:59,086
- [Carol] No shit.
- [Pappy] ...protect our home...
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00:03:59,110 --> 00:04:00,740
I'd steer clear of 'em.
67
00:04:00,940 --> 00:04:02,700
He's not the kind of
guy you wanna mess with.
68
00:04:02,730 --> 00:04:06,620
[Pappy] ...to protect our
God-fearing way of life!
69
00:04:21,380 --> 00:04:24,510
We've heard it said that
David Koresh believed
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00:04:24,710 --> 00:04:27,060
he was preparing,
71
00:04:27,260 --> 00:04:29,970
planning for a great war.
72
00:04:31,390 --> 00:04:32,730
Did he ever express
those beliefs
73
00:04:32,930 --> 00:04:35,070
when he purchased
these guns from you?
74
00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:36,940
I didn't deal with David,
75
00:04:37,140 --> 00:04:39,440
but I was aware of
the philosophy, yes.
76
00:04:40,730 --> 00:04:42,530
Who did you deal with?
77
00:04:42,730 --> 00:04:45,320
I dealt almost exclusively
with Paul Fatta.
78
00:04:45,820 --> 00:04:49,120
And you're referring
to defendant Fatta
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00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,290
seated behind counsel over here?
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00:04:51,490 --> 00:04:52,750
[man] Yes.
81
00:04:52,950 --> 00:04:54,470
[Bill] Did Mr. Fatta
seem knowledgeable
82
00:04:54,620 --> 00:04:55,630
when it came to guns?
83
00:04:55,830 --> 00:04:57,090
[man] Inside and out.
84
00:04:57,290 --> 00:05:00,470
And how many guns did Paul Fatta
85
00:05:00,670 --> 00:05:02,050
purchase from you?
86
00:05:03,210 --> 00:05:05,050
About $90,000 worth.
87
00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:10,890
[Bill] Exhibit 103.
88
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,650
Can you tell us what this is
89
00:05:14,850 --> 00:05:16,820
and where you found it?
90
00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:19,240
We found it in the compound,
91
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:20,490
in the chapel.
92
00:05:20,690 --> 00:05:23,530
And what type of weapon is this?
93
00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:26,120
[Ranger Boak] It's
an M-16 rifle.
94
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,950
I carried one in Vietnam
95
00:05:29,150 --> 00:05:31,330
for 11 months and seven days.
96
00:05:31,530 --> 00:05:34,080
Because it's a military weapon
97
00:05:34,280 --> 00:05:35,790
built for war?
98
00:05:35,990 --> 00:05:37,070
[Ranger Boak] That's right.
99
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,260
Now, Ranger Boak,
100
00:05:39,460 --> 00:05:43,300
you've testified about finding
a lot of evidence here.
101
00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:45,140
Tell me this.
102
00:05:45,340 --> 00:05:47,580
Did you also happen to locate
the building's front doors?
103
00:05:47,670 --> 00:05:49,050
No, sir.
104
00:05:50,260 --> 00:05:51,600
Help me out here.
105
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,150
You were able to
find this BIC lighter
106
00:05:57,350 --> 00:05:59,690
but not two seven-foot doors?
107
00:05:59,890 --> 00:06:01,490
No.
108
00:06:01,690 --> 00:06:02,730
Why not?
109
00:06:04,110 --> 00:06:06,110
It must've burned with
the rest of the building.
110
00:06:07,490 --> 00:06:10,620
Burned? Both front doors?
111
00:06:10,870 --> 00:06:12,200
[Ranger Boak] That's right.
112
00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:15,540
Uh-hmm.
113
00:06:15,740 --> 00:06:17,886
[Bill] But in the months
leading up to the ATF's arrival
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00:06:17,910 --> 00:06:19,460
at Mount Carmel,
115
00:06:19,660 --> 00:06:22,880
what did you observe
regarding their inventory?
116
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,550
We observed a dramatic increase
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00:06:24,750 --> 00:06:26,050
in their stockpile of weapons.
118
00:06:26,250 --> 00:06:29,890
So, they were buying guns
119
00:06:30,090 --> 00:06:31,520
but not selling them?
120
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:32,760
[man] Correct.
121
00:06:33,930 --> 00:06:35,810
[Dan] I only have two questions.
122
00:06:36,010 --> 00:06:38,480
In your years of
observation and research,
123
00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,440
did the Davidians ever
obtain a weapon illegally?
124
00:06:43,610 --> 00:06:44,700
Not to my knowledge.
125
00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:45,990
[Dan] Okay.
126
00:06:46,190 --> 00:06:48,240
And just one more thing.
127
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,870
In your examination
of all the evidence,
128
00:06:52,070 --> 00:06:54,230
I don't reckon you saw those
pesky missing front doors,
129
00:06:54,410 --> 00:06:55,950
did you?
130
00:06:57,540 --> 00:06:58,920
Lieutenant Caldwell,
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00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,000
could you tell us
what the Mag Bag was?
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00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,240
[Lt. Caldwell] The Mag Bag
was a small tract of land
133
00:07:04,290 --> 00:07:06,930
located on Farm Road
outside of Waco.
134
00:07:07,130 --> 00:07:09,890
It was where Mr. Koresh and
Mr. Fatta received shipments
135
00:07:10,090 --> 00:07:12,770
of weapons,
ammunition, gun parts.
136
00:07:12,970 --> 00:07:14,736
[Bill] And had you had
any previous interactions
137
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,000
with David Koresh or Paul Fatta
138
00:07:16,090 --> 00:07:17,770
that would lead
you to believe...
139
00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:20,570
- Objection! Objection! Approach?
- That was the possibility?
140
00:07:21,350 --> 00:07:22,780
Judge, this is a
transparent attempt
141
00:07:22,980 --> 00:07:24,740
to bring up my client,
Paul Fatta's past,
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00:07:24,940 --> 00:07:26,240
which is entirely out of bounds.
143
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,070
It's germane to this
case, Your Honor.
144
00:07:28,270 --> 00:07:29,910
- Okay.
- Mr. Fatta and Mr. Koresh
145
00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:32,580
both have a previous charge of
conspiracy to commit murder.
146
00:07:32,780 --> 00:07:34,370
And the fact that he
and his compatriots
147
00:07:34,570 --> 00:07:36,410
tried to kill a
man in cold blood
148
00:07:36,610 --> 00:07:39,460
absolutely informed the ATF's
decision-making process...
149
00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:41,290
You mean your
decision-making process.
150
00:07:41,490 --> 00:07:43,476
When they decided to stage a
dynamic entry into Mount Carmel.
151
00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:44,976
Paul Fatta wasn't even there
when the tanks rolled in.
152
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,476
He wasn't there a single
day of the standoff.
153
00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:47,896
It doesn't matter
if he wasn't there.
154
00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:48,936
And if Mr. Johnston
wants to prove
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00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,200
that there was some conspiracy,
156
00:07:50,340 --> 00:07:51,820
he should do it with
relevant evidence
157
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,566
and not unfounded
accusations from the '80s.
158
00:07:53,590 --> 00:07:54,606
Mr. Fatta is a
defendant in this...
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00:07:54,630 --> 00:07:55,680
Stop.
160
00:07:56,140 --> 00:07:58,270
I have already ruled
on this, Mr. Johnston.
161
00:07:58,470 --> 00:07:59,650
Yes, Your Honor.
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00:07:59,850 --> 00:08:01,150
The defendant's previous charges
163
00:08:01,350 --> 00:08:03,900
are not in the
purview of this case.
164
00:08:04,100 --> 00:08:05,100
Objection sustained.
165
00:08:05,270 --> 00:08:07,070
Thank you. Thank you.
166
00:08:07,270 --> 00:08:09,150
You can't keep all your
skeletons in the closet.
167
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,070
Neither can you, fucko.
168
00:08:15,410 --> 00:08:16,870
No further questions.
169
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:19,370
Your witness.
170
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,040
I only have one question.
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00:08:24,540 --> 00:08:26,460
You wouldn't happen to
know where the front doors
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00:08:26,660 --> 00:08:29,210
from Mount Carmel
ended up, would you?
173
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,260
No? Okay.
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00:08:33,550 --> 00:08:36,050
Dramatic music plays
175
00:08:46,270 --> 00:08:49,070
[phone ringing]
176
00:08:52,110 --> 00:08:53,740
Can I do for you, George?
177
00:08:55,490 --> 00:08:58,000
We're gonna settle this now.
178
00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,280
[Vernon] Settle what?
179
00:08:59,740 --> 00:09:01,580
[George] Who's the real prophet.
180
00:09:03,330 --> 00:09:05,500
We're gonna see who
can bring her back.
181
00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:06,920
Bring who back?
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00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:09,710
My mother.
183
00:09:11,090 --> 00:09:13,890
Your lies put her in the ground.
184
00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:15,680
I just took her out.
185
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,240
What are you talking
about, George?
186
00:09:17,380 --> 00:09:18,700
What do you mean
you took her out?
187
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,100
[George] I dug her up.
188
00:09:23,310 --> 00:09:25,900
You dug up Lois's body?
189
00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:27,230
Why would you do that?
190
00:09:29,020 --> 00:09:31,940
Whoever can raise my
momma from the dead...
191
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,490
will be the next true
prophet of Mount Carmel.
192
00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:37,490
[snickers]
193
00:09:40,330 --> 00:09:41,750
[Vernon] Sheriff,
194
00:09:41,950 --> 00:09:43,500
what do you mean you
can't do anything?
195
00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:45,710
George dug up his
own dead mother!
196
00:09:45,910 --> 00:09:48,090
- It's an abomination!
- Look, Vernon.
197
00:09:48,290 --> 00:09:50,380
I drove by Mount Carmel
after you called.
198
00:09:50,580 --> 00:09:52,050
I didn't see any dug-up bodies.
199
00:09:52,250 --> 00:09:53,680
George told me himself!
200
00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,930
Yeah, George says a
lot of crazy things.
201
00:09:56,130 --> 00:09:58,180
Unless you have actual evidence
202
00:09:58,380 --> 00:10:00,720
of corpse abuse or
some other crime,
203
00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,760
there's not much that I can do.
204
00:10:03,220 --> 00:10:05,060
Maybe the best course
of action is for y'all
205
00:10:05,260 --> 00:10:06,610
to stay away from Mount Carmel.
206
00:10:06,810 --> 00:10:08,730
Just leave George Roden be.
207
00:10:08,930 --> 00:10:11,190
He's the one that called me!
208
00:10:11,610 --> 00:10:13,570
I think he's fixing
to come after us.
209
00:10:13,770 --> 00:10:15,240
Well, then you might wanna think
210
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,320
about getting something
to defend yourself with.
211
00:10:21,990 --> 00:10:23,290
[chattering indistinctly]
212
00:10:23,490 --> 00:10:25,090
[news reporter]
Mr. Cogdell. Mr. Cogdell.
213
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,750
Do you think it's the doors
that prove who shot first?
214
00:10:27,950 --> 00:10:29,290
I do.
215
00:10:29,790 --> 00:10:32,800
But, but those doors
are also a symbol
216
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,470
for all the
questionable behavior
217
00:10:34,670 --> 00:10:36,670
the Federal government
has taken part in.
218
00:10:38,050 --> 00:10:39,970
Listen, listen.
219
00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:42,770
The ATF shows up
with more cameras
220
00:10:42,970 --> 00:10:46,270
than a Hollywood blockbuster,
but there's no footage.
221
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:49,440
They lose power at the morgue
so no autopsies can be done.
222
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,780
Christ, they bulldozed
the whole crime scene
223
00:10:51,980 --> 00:10:54,020
and then they bleached
it for good measure.
224
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,320
This is what happens when
you have the architect
225
00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:58,520
of a government raid,
226
00:10:58,690 --> 00:11:00,950
the man who demanded the ATF
227
00:11:01,150 --> 00:11:04,410
go in with a hard entry, also
prosecuting the same case.
228
00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:06,086
[news reporter] You
saying there's some sort
229
00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:07,636
- of government cover-up?
- No, I'm just saying
230
00:11:07,660 --> 00:11:09,790
that Bill Johnston
has a vested interest
231
00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:12,750
in convicting these people,
that's for damn sure.
232
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,130
I heard you with the
press saying I'm corrupt.
233
00:11:16,330 --> 00:11:17,630
That's way out of bounds.
234
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,520
It's called zealously
defending my clients.
235
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:20,830
You can't win with the facts,
236
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,146
so you're trying
to turn this thing
237
00:11:22,170 --> 00:11:23,810
into a government cover-up,
238
00:11:24,010 --> 00:11:25,696
and you're dragging my name
through the mud to do it,
239
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,440
like I had some ulterior motive.
240
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:28,980
I sanctioned that raid
241
00:11:29,180 --> 00:11:31,480
because I was trying
to save those kids.
242
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,560
Save those kids with
a forcible entry?
243
00:11:35,060 --> 00:11:37,610
I'm doing my job the
best way I know how.
244
00:11:37,810 --> 00:11:39,490
Now, you don't
agree with it? Fine.
245
00:11:39,690 --> 00:11:41,330
But let's fight fair, Dan.
246
00:11:41,530 --> 00:11:43,160
You want me to fight fair?
247
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,870
You've got the
public, the press,
248
00:11:45,070 --> 00:11:47,040
and the United States
government behind you.
249
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,450
And all I've got is a
booth at the Polo Lounge.
250
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,500
I'm not gonna play with
one-hand tied behind my back.
251
00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:57,130
You want me to shut
up? Find those doors.
252
00:11:58,130 --> 00:11:59,300
[door closes]
253
00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:02,470
tense music plays
254
00:12:22,030 --> 00:12:23,950
Listen, when the prosecutor
starts picking fights
255
00:12:24,110 --> 00:12:25,876
with you in the hall, it means
you're doing something right.
256
00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:27,700
Hmm.
257
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:29,710
Yeah, yeah, except...
258
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:31,170
Except what?
259
00:12:31,370 --> 00:12:33,000
You've been watching
the forewoman?
260
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,200
Um...
261
00:12:35,790 --> 00:12:38,340
juror number six?
262
00:12:38,540 --> 00:12:40,220
She's the poison juror.
263
00:12:40,420 --> 00:12:42,720
I can just tell. She's
itching to say the G-word.
264
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,060
Yeah. Well, that's
why we have 11 more
265
00:12:45,260 --> 00:12:46,680
because all you need is one.
266
00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:49,730
Jocelyn, you'd acquit our
clients, wouldn't you?
267
00:12:49,930 --> 00:12:51,440
[scoffs] Hell no.
268
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:52,900
They're guilty as shit.
269
00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:54,520
Just like their defense lawyers.
270
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,570
Ow. Ow.
271
00:12:56,770 --> 00:12:58,690
Number six, she's the top dog.
272
00:12:58,890 --> 00:13:00,576
- She could sway the rest.
- Listen, don't...
273
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,860
Don't worry about number
six. I'm gonna focus on her.
274
00:13:03,070 --> 00:13:04,416
I'm gonna make her feel
like the prettiest,
275
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,740
most special juror in the world.
276
00:13:05,940 --> 00:13:07,080
[sighs]
277
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:08,750
Ask Jocelyn if I
can't sweet-talk
278
00:13:08,950 --> 00:13:10,040
the legs off a chair.
279
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,520
Dan, if you were
half as charming
280
00:13:11,570 --> 00:13:12,620
as you think you are,
281
00:13:12,820 --> 00:13:14,096
you'd be the best
lawyer on earth.
282
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,460
- Ooh.
- [Jocelyn chuckles]
283
00:13:15,660 --> 00:13:16,980
Is that flirting?
Is she flirting?
284
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,720
- No, that is not...
- Jesus, Gordon!
285
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,090
God. God! I gotta
put a bell on you.
286
00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:23,760
Think I may have
an answer for you
287
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,890
on those front doors.
288
00:13:27,090 --> 00:13:31,270
Whoa. Is this Mount Carmel?
289
00:13:31,470 --> 00:13:33,350
What is this, Gordon?
What am I looking at here?
290
00:13:33,470 --> 00:13:35,980
[Gordon] This was
taken at 3:55 p.m.,
291
00:13:36,180 --> 00:13:38,900
a couple hours after
the fire started.
292
00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:42,070
And these are FBI agents
293
00:13:42,270 --> 00:13:44,610
loading something into a truck.
294
00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:46,580
Something about the size
and shape of a door.
295
00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:48,450
Yeah, which was so
daggone important
296
00:13:48,650 --> 00:13:49,950
that they had to grab it
297
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:51,990
while the building
was still smoldering.
298
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,830
[chuckles]
299
00:13:55,030 --> 00:13:56,170
You crazy son of a bitch.
300
00:13:56,370 --> 00:13:57,870
- This is it.
- That's it.
301
00:13:58,330 --> 00:13:59,920
You think these
are the front doors
302
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:01,136
being loaded into this truck?
303
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,420
I do, Your Honor.
304
00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:04,260
- This is absurd.
- [Dan scoffs]
305
00:14:04,460 --> 00:14:05,800
That's not real evidence.
306
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,680
You can hardly see
anything in that photo.
307
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:08,986
I could say they're
loading Bigfoot
308
00:14:09,010 --> 00:14:10,270
into the back of that truck.
309
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:11,816
- It's pretty blurry, Counselor.
- Well,
310
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:13,280
uh, either way, the
fact that the FBI
311
00:14:13,470 --> 00:14:14,946
was loading anything
into the back of a U-Haul
312
00:14:14,970 --> 00:14:16,440
while a building
is still smoldering
313
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,480
is information the
jury deserves to know.
314
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,490
Your Honor, the defense
has obtained a blurry photo
315
00:14:21,690 --> 00:14:24,150
from a conspiracy theorist who
got it from who-knows-where.
316
00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:25,820
How do you know
where I got it from?
317
00:14:26,020 --> 00:14:28,200
It wasn't in discovery.
318
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,040
Are you spying on me?
319
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,370
- Judge?
- Cogdell,
320
00:14:32,570 --> 00:14:33,660
get ahold of yourself.
321
00:14:33,860 --> 00:14:35,370
Besides,
322
00:14:35,570 --> 00:14:37,290
we have our own evidence
we'd like to submit
323
00:14:37,410 --> 00:14:39,290
which will address
these ridiculous claims.
324
00:14:39,490 --> 00:14:40,550
And what's that?
325
00:14:40,750 --> 00:14:42,050
We found the door, Your Honor.
326
00:14:42,250 --> 00:14:43,250
The door? What door?
327
00:14:43,420 --> 00:14:44,670
- What door?
- Yeah.
328
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:46,520
The one you've been
asking about non-stop.
329
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:49,470
The one you claim is gonna flip
this whole case on its head.
330
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:51,680
We're bringing it in.
331
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,300
Should put your
concerns to rest.
332
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,640
Dramatic music plays
333
00:15:03,650 --> 00:15:05,530
[Bill] May it please the Court,
334
00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:07,050
the government
would like to offer
335
00:15:07,190 --> 00:15:10,110
Government Exhibit Number 728.
336
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,080
Jesus, what a showman.
337
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,080
You hear what he said earlier?
338
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,210
That a conspiracy theorist
gave us the photo?
339
00:15:18,410 --> 00:15:20,540
Do you think they've got
the Polo Lounge bugged?
340
00:15:20,740 --> 00:15:22,880
We found the door in Sector F,
341
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,050
approximately 40 feet
away from the building.
342
00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:28,390
And did you realize
it was the front door?
343
00:15:28,590 --> 00:15:29,590
[Ranger Boak] No, sir.
344
00:15:29,750 --> 00:15:31,010
It was located so far away
345
00:15:31,210 --> 00:15:32,430
from the front of the building
346
00:15:32,630 --> 00:15:35,430
we classified it as a
piece of scrap metal.
347
00:15:35,630 --> 00:15:37,390
And when did you come to realize
348
00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:39,100
that it was the front door?
349
00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:41,730
When we re-canvassed the
evidence warehouse yesterday
350
00:15:41,930 --> 00:15:44,030
at your urging and found it.
351
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:47,070
Now, does this door
352
00:15:47,270 --> 00:15:49,700
appear to have any
bullet holes in it?
353
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:51,110
[Ranger Boak] No, sir.
354
00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:53,910
So there is nothing here
355
00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:56,750
that contradicts any of
the earlier ATF testimony
356
00:15:56,950 --> 00:15:59,750
stating that the
Davidians fired first?
357
00:15:59,950 --> 00:16:02,380
No.
358
00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:04,750
Were you aware that
the cult compound
359
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,476
- originally had two front doors?
- [Ranger Boak] Yes.
360
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:07,940
We re-canvassed for
that one as well,
361
00:16:08,130 --> 00:16:11,010
but didn't find it,
which wasn't surprising.
362
00:16:12,170 --> 00:16:13,340
Why not?
363
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,560
It was still attached
to the building.
364
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,060
It melted when the
building burned.
365
00:16:18,260 --> 00:16:19,560
Objection. Speculation.
366
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:20,946
The witness has no
first-hand knowledge
367
00:16:20,970 --> 00:16:22,770
that the other door melted.
368
00:16:22,970 --> 00:16:25,230
Uh-hmm. Sustained.
369
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:26,430
[Bill] All right.
370
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:27,990
Ranger Boak,
371
00:16:28,190 --> 00:16:31,110
why do you believe the
other front door melted?
372
00:16:31,310 --> 00:16:34,450
Because the doors were
aluminum with foam cores.
373
00:16:34,650 --> 00:16:36,050
And it was subjected
to temperatures
374
00:16:36,110 --> 00:16:38,120
in excess of 1300
degrees Fahrenheit
375
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:39,660
during the fire.
376
00:16:39,870 --> 00:16:42,080
Aluminum melts at 1200.
377
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,750
And why didn't this door melt?
378
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,040
You see those marks?
379
00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:50,670
They're from the
treads of a tank.
380
00:16:51,090 --> 00:16:53,510
And when the tanks penetrated
the compound entryway,
381
00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:55,640
we believe the door got
caught in the treads
382
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,770
and was dragged to the
place that we found it.
383
00:16:57,970 --> 00:16:59,310
Well clear of the fire.
384
00:16:59,510 --> 00:17:00,946
[whispers] Could you go
get something for me?
385
00:17:00,970 --> 00:17:02,690
Now, Ranger Boak,
386
00:17:02,890 --> 00:17:07,100
you didn't realize that
this was a door initially.
387
00:17:08,270 --> 00:17:10,990
Is that common, to
miscategorize evidence?
388
00:17:11,190 --> 00:17:13,990
It's not common but it happens,
389
00:17:14,190 --> 00:17:16,700
particularly if there's a
large volume of evidence.
390
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:21,330
Final question, were you
and the Texas Rangers
391
00:17:21,530 --> 00:17:23,670
part of a massive conspiracy
392
00:17:23,870 --> 00:17:27,250
headed by the Federal
government to hide this door?
393
00:17:30,130 --> 00:17:31,880
I reckon not, sir.
394
00:17:35,130 --> 00:17:36,430
[Bill] No further questions.
395
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:40,430
[Vernon] Sheriff said
we needed proof of, um,
396
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:43,730
what'd he call it?
397
00:17:43,930 --> 00:17:45,480
- Corpse abuse.
- Corpse abuse
398
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,690
in order to do
anything about it.
399
00:17:47,890 --> 00:17:49,690
Well...
400
00:17:49,890 --> 00:17:51,570
what if we gave him some proof?
401
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:54,610
Like a picture?
402
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,990
We can't just go to Mount
Carmel and snap a picture.
403
00:18:00,490 --> 00:18:02,210
George carries around an Uzi.
404
00:18:02,410 --> 00:18:03,500
He's...
405
00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:05,830
He's crazy.
406
00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:07,340
I mean, you heard the Sheriff,
407
00:18:07,540 --> 00:18:09,460
he said we might need
to arm ourselves.
408
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,260
So what if we did?
409
00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:13,550
All right.
410
00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:15,890
We'll take, uh,
five of the Rugers
411
00:18:16,090 --> 00:18:19,180
and, uh, throw in some
of them camo suits too.
412
00:18:19,380 --> 00:18:20,380
You got it.
413
00:18:23,010 --> 00:18:26,140
[truck engine revving]
414
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:38,320
We're here.
415
00:18:45,660 --> 00:18:47,920
All right.
416
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,420
Everybody stay quiet
and stay close.
417
00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:52,880
We're just getting a few
photos and then getting out.
418
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,080
All right?
419
00:18:54,250 --> 00:18:57,840
Tense music plays
420
00:19:02,220 --> 00:19:03,680
[Vernon] Okay. Come on.
421
00:19:32,750 --> 00:19:34,590
[panting]
422
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:58,780
[gasps]
423
00:19:58,980 --> 00:20:00,320
- [panting]
- [camera clicks]
424
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,660
[George] Vernon!
425
00:20:01,860 --> 00:20:03,990
Suspenseful music plays
426
00:20:04,190 --> 00:20:04,950
No. No, George.
427
00:20:05,150 --> 00:20:06,870
[gunshots]
428
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,560
- [man] Go, go, go!
- [Paul panting]
429
00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:12,340
[George] You're trespassing!
430
00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:14,000
Sneaking around my property!
431
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,010
- [panting]
- [gunshots]
432
00:20:16,210 --> 00:20:18,920
suspenseful music plays
433
00:20:53,370 --> 00:20:54,610
- George, no!
- [gun ratchets]
434
00:20:54,740 --> 00:20:55,740
- [gunshot]
- Ah!
435
00:20:55,910 --> 00:20:57,630
Oh! Oh!
436
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,590
[groaning]
437
00:21:00,790 --> 00:21:02,050
You all right?
438
00:21:02,250 --> 00:21:03,720
Guess you got to
learn how to shoot.
439
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,010
Won't be the last time we
got to defend ourselves.
440
00:21:07,970 --> 00:21:11,020
Suspenseful music plays
441
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,520
[sirens blaring]
442
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:19,650
Beast is coming.
443
00:21:26,410 --> 00:21:27,820
[deputy sheriff]
Drop your weapons!
444
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:30,620
On the ground!
445
00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:33,370
[indistinct radio chatter]
446
00:21:44,090 --> 00:21:47,600
ATF agents testified
447
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,140
that the Davidians shot first
448
00:21:50,340 --> 00:21:52,440
and that those shots...
449
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,980
went through the front doors.
450
00:21:56,180 --> 00:21:58,780
But the Davidians have
stated that it was the ATF
451
00:21:58,980 --> 00:22:01,900
who shot at them through
those same doors.
452
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,410
But this door has no bullet
holes in it, correct?
453
00:22:06,610 --> 00:22:08,120
Not that I see.
454
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,400
So it must be the other
door, the still-missing door,
455
00:22:10,490 --> 00:22:12,466
that was shot through and
it would be the other door
456
00:22:12,490 --> 00:22:16,040
that would prove which
side was telling the truth.
457
00:22:16,910 --> 00:22:19,170
Yes. It... it appears that way.
458
00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:23,760
Well, that's bad luck, isn't it?
459
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,960
[clears throat]
460
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,380
Uh, a moment, Judge.
461
00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:34,390
- Oh... shit.
- That's all I could find.
462
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:37,980
So, you believe the
other door melted.
463
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:39,366
- [Ranger Boak] Yes.
- Because it was made
464
00:22:39,390 --> 00:22:40,400
of aluminum.
465
00:22:41,810 --> 00:22:43,110
That's what I said.
466
00:22:43,310 --> 00:22:46,160
And those guns right
there didn't melt
467
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:47,620
because they're made of steel,
468
00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:49,330
which has a much
higher melting point?
469
00:22:49,530 --> 00:22:51,830
[Ranger Boak] Yes.
470
00:22:52,030 --> 00:22:54,120
So if the other door
was made of steel,
471
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:55,700
would it have melted?
472
00:22:56,910 --> 00:22:58,250
No.
473
00:22:58,790 --> 00:23:01,750
[Dan] Yet that door
seems awfully heavy.
474
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,340
Well, I mean, my daddy
was a contractor.
475
00:23:05,540 --> 00:23:07,800
Uh, I'd help him demo houses.
476
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,520
We pulled down a lot
of aluminum doors.
477
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:11,560
I could carry one under one arm.
478
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,560
Sure didn't take three
men to pick one up.
479
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,350
I... I couldn't speak to that.
480
00:23:17,550 --> 00:23:20,390
[Dan] Well, then let me
ask you this, Ranger Boak.
481
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:23,820
Is aluminum magnetic?
482
00:23:24,020 --> 00:23:25,530
Objection!
483
00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:29,160
Ranger Boak is a lay
witness, not a metals expert.
484
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:31,410
I'll allow it.
485
00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:33,540
No, it's not magnetic.
486
00:23:33,740 --> 00:23:35,870
How about steel?
487
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:38,040
I believe so, yes.
488
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,880
So this refrigerator magnet,
489
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,960
would it stick to aluminum?
490
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:45,840
Um, no, it... it wouldn't.
491
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,010
Tense music plays
492
00:24:08,980 --> 00:24:11,820
[people murmuring]
493
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:18,370
Do you still believe this
door is made of aluminum?
494
00:24:23,250 --> 00:24:26,670
No, sir, it looks
to be made of steel.
495
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,930
And if this door
is made of steel,
496
00:24:29,130 --> 00:24:30,970
wouldn't it stand to
reason that the other door
497
00:24:31,130 --> 00:24:34,640
it was attached to was
also made of steel?
498
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:41,680
The witness needs
to respond verbally.
499
00:24:43,890 --> 00:24:45,020
Yes.
500
00:24:46,060 --> 00:24:47,940
So then, Ranger Boak,
501
00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:49,730
I'll ask you again...
502
00:24:51,570 --> 00:24:53,530
where is the missing door?
503
00:25:11,050 --> 00:25:14,090
[phone buttons clacking]
504
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,890
[phone ringing]
505
00:25:29,610 --> 00:25:30,780
Oh, hey.
506
00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:32,820
Do you... do you need the phone?
507
00:25:33,020 --> 00:25:34,660
Because I can wait,
it's not urgent.
508
00:25:34,860 --> 00:25:36,030
[Gary on phone] Hello?
509
00:25:38,570 --> 00:25:39,740
No, go ahead.
510
00:25:41,450 --> 00:25:44,290
[Gary] Hello? Hello?
511
00:25:44,490 --> 00:25:45,710
Hey, Daddy.
512
00:25:45,910 --> 00:25:47,170
Oh, Carol.
513
00:25:47,370 --> 00:25:48,690
Oh, it's so good
to hear from you.
514
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:50,840
- Are you safe?
- [Carol] Yeah, yeah.
515
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,470
I, I just wanted
you to know that,
516
00:25:52,670 --> 00:25:54,340
that I made it to my
friend's place okay.
517
00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:56,760
You know, I didn't... I
didn't want you to worry.
518
00:25:56,970 --> 00:26:00,220
Yeah, that's good to hear
because I was worried.
519
00:26:00,430 --> 00:26:02,260
Your mom and I
were both worried.
520
00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:05,560
When do you think
we'll see you again?
521
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,360
[Carol] Uh, it's hard
to say, you know,
522
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,366
but I... but I should go
because there's someone
523
00:26:09,390 --> 00:26:10,830
waiting on the phone,
so I, you know,
524
00:26:11,020 --> 00:26:12,700
I just didn't want you
to think I got lost.
525
00:26:12,850 --> 00:26:14,410
[Gary] Well, hey,
thanks for calling.
526
00:26:14,610 --> 00:26:15,700
You called...
527
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:17,780
- [dial tone]
- Hmm.
528
00:26:21,030 --> 00:26:23,080
Ah, that was Carol.
529
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,750
She's still in play.
530
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:28,000
You sure she's just not looking
to get more candy money?
531
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:31,550
What's your name?
532
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:33,220
I don't know you.
533
00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:36,220
[Gary] Woo. Good girl.
You taught her well.
534
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:39,430
Okay, kiddo, we're gonna
get you to daycare.
535
00:26:42,180 --> 00:26:45,770
[Dan] Government has charged
my clients with conspiracy.
536
00:26:45,970 --> 00:26:49,400
They claim that Paul Fatta
was a blood merchant,
537
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,030
the architect of
some violent plot
538
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:55,240
when he was just a man
trying to run a business.
539
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,740
But after what we saw today
I can't help but wonder
540
00:26:57,940 --> 00:26:59,870
if it's the government
who shouldn't be answering
541
00:27:00,070 --> 00:27:01,160
for their actions,
542
00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:04,290
if it's the government
who is conspiring against
543
00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:07,540
my clients, whose
only crime was leading
544
00:27:07,740 --> 00:27:10,290
a life the government
didn't agree with.
545
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:16,090
And now that same government
refuses to take responsibility
546
00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:18,090
for its actions, and in
fact is willing to do
547
00:27:18,290 --> 00:27:21,060
whatever it takes
to cover it up,
548
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:24,430
even if it means
hurting innocent people.
549
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:28,100
But that malfeasance,
that arrogance
550
00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,820
has dangerous consequences
551
00:27:31,020 --> 00:27:32,020
for my clients
552
00:27:32,180 --> 00:27:33,980
and for the rest
of this country.
553
00:27:34,770 --> 00:27:36,400
Lori Rae?
554
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,786
You're on the Waco jury, right?
555
00:27:37,810 --> 00:27:38,810
What?
556
00:27:38,940 --> 00:27:42,160
No, I don't wanna talk.
557
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:43,950
The Constitution of
the United States
558
00:27:44,150 --> 00:27:45,740
gives jurors great powers.
559
00:27:47,410 --> 00:27:49,200
I'm here to inform
you of your choices.
560
00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:56,300
[Lori Rae] Please, leave!
561
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:58,000
Please!
562
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,100
I'm calling the police!
563
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:06,350
You can make the right choice.
564
00:28:06,550 --> 00:28:08,140
- [pounds on wall]
- Please!
565
00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:11,350
Suspenseful music plays
566
00:28:12,770 --> 00:28:14,530
[breathes heavily]
567
00:28:14,730 --> 00:28:16,060
[mail slot clatters]
568
00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:35,170
Before we get started, I
wanna make you all aware
569
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,510
of something,
570
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:38,270
five of our jurors
had letters delivered
571
00:28:38,370 --> 00:28:41,840
to their homes this weekend
by a group called FIJA,
572
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,310
the Fully Informed
Jury Association.
573
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:47,020
Pamphlets claim
574
00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:48,986
the rules of the court
don't apply to the jury
575
00:28:49,010 --> 00:28:51,520
and they can make up whatever
verdict they see fit.
576
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,020
- To the jurors' homes?
- Yes.
577
00:28:53,220 --> 00:28:55,820
One of the jurors,
juror number six,
578
00:28:56,020 --> 00:28:57,860
said she was
practically accosted.
579
00:28:58,060 --> 00:29:00,070
She's pretty shaken up about it.
580
00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:05,530
Any of you all familiar
with this group?
581
00:29:05,740 --> 00:29:06,940
Are you asking us, Your Honor?
582
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:08,370
I'm asking everyone.
583
00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:10,210
It just seems like
the implication
584
00:29:10,410 --> 00:29:12,710
is that the defense
might benefit from this.
585
00:29:12,910 --> 00:29:14,346
I think you're reading
into my question.
586
00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:16,050
I'm not implying
anything, counselor.
587
00:29:16,250 --> 00:29:19,220
I'm just concerned that
if-if the jury thinks
588
00:29:19,420 --> 00:29:20,720
these people are aligned with...
589
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,566
I will tell the jury
they have nothing to do
590
00:29:22,590 --> 00:29:24,050
with anyone involved
in the trial.
591
00:29:24,250 --> 00:29:25,930
That would be much
appreciated. Thank you.
592
00:29:26,130 --> 00:29:28,680
So long as they believe
they can remain impartial.
593
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,390
- Let's get started.
- Thank you.
594
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:33,810
[door opens]
595
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:48,216
[Bill] Your Honor,
the government calls
596
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,160
Kathy Schroeder to the stand.
597
00:29:57,330 --> 00:29:59,800
So you were a member
of this group,
598
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,460
a Branch Davidian?
599
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,760
[Kathy] I was. Yes.
600
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,680
[Bill] This must be
very hard for you
601
00:30:07,090 --> 00:30:09,510
to testify against
your own people.
602
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,940
[Kathy] Yeah, it is.
603
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:16,770
[Bill] When the ATF
arrived on February 28th
604
00:30:16,970 --> 00:30:19,110
to serve their warrant,
605
00:30:19,310 --> 00:30:20,900
and a gunfight erupted,
606
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:23,650
were you tasked with
any kind of job?
607
00:30:23,850 --> 00:30:24,950
Yes.
608
00:30:25,150 --> 00:30:26,490
[grunts]
609
00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:28,450
I was the one who made
sure that everybody
610
00:30:28,650 --> 00:30:30,830
had a gun and made
sure that everybody
611
00:30:31,030 --> 00:30:33,410
had the right ammunition
to go with it.
612
00:30:33,610 --> 00:30:35,006
- No! They're gonna kill you.
- [Kathy] Why?
613
00:30:35,030 --> 00:30:36,346
- I don't care!
- Give me that gun!
614
00:30:36,370 --> 00:30:38,170
Give me that gun!
615
00:30:38,370 --> 00:30:41,130
[Bill] And why were you
entrusted with this job?
616
00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:42,750
I'd been in the Air Force.
617
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,710
So it was like a
military exercise?
618
00:30:46,090 --> 00:30:48,140
[Kathy] It was something
we'd trained for.
619
00:30:48,340 --> 00:30:50,470
[Bill] And the people
that you were passing out
620
00:30:50,670 --> 00:30:53,100
these weapons to,
did they take them
621
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:55,660
- with the intent to use them?
- Objection. Speculation.
622
00:30:55,850 --> 00:30:57,650
[Bill] I'll rephrase.
623
00:30:57,850 --> 00:31:00,320
Was it your understanding that
the weapons would be used?
624
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:01,980
Absolutely.
625
00:31:02,180 --> 00:31:03,980
And are some of the
people that you passed out
626
00:31:04,150 --> 00:31:06,570
these weapons to here today?
627
00:31:07,780 --> 00:31:09,200
Yes.
628
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,490
[Bill] Let's get specific.
629
00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:13,000
During the raid,
630
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,290
did you have any contact
with Ruth Riddle?
631
00:31:17,490 --> 00:31:20,380
[Kathy] I gave Ruth
a gun and nine mags.
632
00:31:20,580 --> 00:31:22,750
[Bill] Can you
identify Ruth Riddle?
633
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,420
I'm sorry, Ruth.
634
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,970
[Bill] Let the record
show that Mrs. Schroeder
635
00:31:30,170 --> 00:31:32,050
has identified Ruth Riddle.
636
00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:35,980
What contact did you
have with Clive Doyle
637
00:31:36,180 --> 00:31:37,560
concerning firearms?
638
00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:41,230
I gave Clive the .308.
639
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:43,770
[Bill] Can you
identify Clive Doyle?
640
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,910
Did you have any contact
with Livingstone Fagan
641
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:52,700
concerning firearms?
642
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:54,740
[Kathy] Livingstone was
already carrying an AK,
643
00:31:54,860 --> 00:31:56,870
so I just made sure he had ammo.
644
00:31:57,070 --> 00:31:59,830
Did you have any
contact with Paul Fatta
645
00:32:00,030 --> 00:32:01,880
concerning firearms?
646
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,630
[Kathy] Not on the
day of the raid,
647
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,290
but he purchased the guns.
648
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:11,050
[Bill] So David Koresh
649
00:32:11,250 --> 00:32:13,890
instructed you to hand out
650
00:32:14,090 --> 00:32:16,600
the weapons Paul Fatta purchased
651
00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:19,060
to these defendants?
652
00:32:19,260 --> 00:32:20,260
[Kathy] Yes.
653
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,400
We all had guns. You
get it? We all had guns.
654
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,070
We all... we all
knew what was coming.
655
00:32:28,270 --> 00:32:30,410
David always said, "If
you can't kill for God,
656
00:32:30,610 --> 00:32:32,450
you can't die for God."
657
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:35,870
And was David Koresh
willing to die?
658
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:37,790
[Kathy] Of course.
659
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:39,290
We all were.
660
00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:42,830
We were the army of God.
661
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:47,920
Even, even David's name,
662
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,380
David Koresh,
663
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:51,800
that means "Beloved Death."
664
00:32:55,180 --> 00:32:58,100
So... when David Koresh
665
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:02,100
believed he was dying
from his gunshot wounds,
666
00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:05,190
was there a plan
in case he died?
667
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,780
We were supposed to carry David
668
00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:12,150
out the front door
on a stretcher.
669
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,200
If he wasn't dead yet,
670
00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:20,540
we were gonna shoot
him in the head.
671
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:25,330
And then we were supposed to
open fire on the FBI agents.
672
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,590
And why would you
want to do that?
673
00:33:32,090 --> 00:33:33,720
[sighs]
674
00:33:35,050 --> 00:33:37,180
To-to-to...
675
00:33:39,140 --> 00:33:41,600
to draw their fire. [sniffles]
676
00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:44,890
So they'd kill us all.
677
00:33:49,310 --> 00:33:52,570
See, you had to
know the real David.
678
00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:55,240
He was never gonna surrender.
679
00:33:57,950 --> 00:34:00,330
[whimpers] Sorry.
680
00:34:00,530 --> 00:34:02,910
He was never gonna let us go.
681
00:34:05,790 --> 00:34:07,960
[Bill] And how
did you know that?
682
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,250
[Kathy] Because...
683
00:34:11,670 --> 00:34:13,800
he'd conditioned us.
684
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,390
Oh, he did.
685
00:34:21,140 --> 00:34:22,640
[crying]
686
00:34:23,810 --> 00:34:26,400
He conditioned us for years
687
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,360
to believe that we were headed
688
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,360
for an armed
showdown with the...
689
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,200
With the forces of the Beast.
690
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,030
[Bill] The Beast?
691
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:38,030
From the Book of Revelation.
692
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:40,040
So,
693
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:43,500
when the ATF arrived
at your door,
694
00:34:43,700 --> 00:34:46,040
you believed they
were those forces?
695
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:48,410
And you were ready for battle.
696
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,290
Yeah, we were.
697
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,510
[Bill] And you were
conditioned to believe
698
00:34:59,050 --> 00:35:02,760
that it would be a
battle to the death?
699
00:35:04,850 --> 00:35:05,970
Yes.
700
00:35:06,270 --> 00:35:10,690
[Bill] So, no matter
what the government did,
701
00:35:10,890 --> 00:35:14,360
no matter how many chances
they gave the Branch Davidians
702
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,980
to come out of Mount Carmel,
703
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,150
you weren't coming out alive?
704
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:26,460
No.
705
00:35:26,660 --> 00:35:29,660
Dramatic music plays
706
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:40,380
[Terry] It's not
too late, you know.
707
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:43,680
We could pick a different place.
708
00:35:44,350 --> 00:35:47,350
Bet most of those kids
never even heard of Waco.
709
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:51,980
We kill a bunch of kids,
710
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:55,360
who's to say we're any
better than the ATF?
711
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:59,780
- [phone ringing]
- Yeah. Hello?
712
00:35:59,980 --> 00:36:01,910
[Alan] Gary, Sanborn here.
713
00:36:02,110 --> 00:36:03,790
Oh hey, Alan, what's up?
714
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:06,290
[Alan] I need you on a
plane in a couple hours.
715
00:36:06,490 --> 00:36:09,420
I passed off the negotiations
team to Hendricks.
716
00:36:09,620 --> 00:36:11,630
It's not a negotiation.
717
00:36:11,830 --> 00:36:14,300
I need you in Texas ASAP.
718
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:17,880
You're being called to testify
in the Waco trial tomorrow.
719
00:36:20,050 --> 00:36:22,470
[sighs] What? The...
720
00:36:22,670 --> 00:36:25,470
the prosecution
wants me to testify?
721
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:27,720
[Alan] No, the defense does.
722
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:31,440
- The defense? Why?
- [Alan] I don't know.
723
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,020
Maybe they caught wind
of your little meltdown
724
00:36:34,220 --> 00:36:35,940
with the DOJ,
where you said Waco
725
00:36:36,140 --> 00:36:37,530
was all the government's fault.
726
00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:38,996
[Gary] That's not what I said.
727
00:36:39,020 --> 00:36:40,660
Well, either way,
728
00:36:40,860 --> 00:36:43,120
they want you on
the stand tomorrow.
729
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,540
[inhales deeply]
Jesus. No, I... no, no.
730
00:36:46,740 --> 00:36:48,160
I don't have time
for that, Alan.
731
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,830
Can you make it go away?
732
00:36:50,030 --> 00:36:51,306
[Alan] No, I cannot.
It's a Federal subpoena.
733
00:36:51,330 --> 00:36:54,000
I... This is bad timing, Alan.
734
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,800
I just got a CI
into Elohim City.
735
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,290
What?
736
00:36:59,420 --> 00:37:01,010
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
737
00:37:01,210 --> 00:37:03,510
Who the hell gave you clearance
to send a CI in there?
738
00:37:03,710 --> 00:37:05,220
I sure as hell didn't, Gary.
739
00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:07,020
If that unauthorized
CI turns up dead,
740
00:37:07,220 --> 00:37:08,730
your career is over.
741
00:37:08,930 --> 00:37:10,020
I realize that.
742
00:37:10,220 --> 00:37:11,580
That's why I can't
leave right now.
743
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:13,120
[Alan] I don't
like you testifying
744
00:37:13,220 --> 00:37:15,150
any more than you do.
745
00:37:15,350 --> 00:37:18,570
You go down there and you show
that you know how to play ball.
746
00:37:18,770 --> 00:37:20,740
If you want support
out there in Oklahoma,
747
00:37:20,940 --> 00:37:23,740
then you're gonna have to show
us that you are a team player.
748
00:37:23,940 --> 00:37:25,780
[line cuts]
749
00:37:26,990 --> 00:37:29,500
[sighs]
750
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:31,710
Are you stupid?
751
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:34,670
You had no right to do
this without talking to us.
752
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:36,386
This right here is how
you lose our whole case.
753
00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:39,920
I'm sorry. Were you
in there just now?
754
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,260
Because Kathy Schroeder
just destroyed us.
755
00:37:43,460 --> 00:37:46,350
Look, our whole case is
built on self-defense,
756
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:49,390
on the idea that the government
attacked the Davidians.
757
00:37:49,590 --> 00:37:51,470
But the jury is not gonna
give a shit about that
758
00:37:51,590 --> 00:37:53,630
if they think the Davidians
already had a death wish
759
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,270
and were gonna kill
themselves no matter what.
760
00:37:56,690 --> 00:38:00,570
So our job, our
most important job,
761
00:38:00,770 --> 00:38:03,410
is to show the jury
that our clients
762
00:38:03,610 --> 00:38:07,160
were actual people,
people who wanted to live.
763
00:38:07,570 --> 00:38:10,790
And that the choices
the ATF and the FBI made
764
00:38:10,990 --> 00:38:13,620
are what resulted in
all those people dying.
765
00:38:13,820 --> 00:38:16,040
We could put their
friends on the stand...
766
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:17,750
- [Dan] No, no.
- Their family.
767
00:38:17,950 --> 00:38:21,050
Come on. Somebody's mama
ain't gonna convince the jury.
768
00:38:21,250 --> 00:38:23,260
But if we can get a badge
up there and he says
769
00:38:23,460 --> 00:38:26,170
that these were real people,
people who wanted to live...
770
00:38:28,430 --> 00:38:30,100
then we're cooking with gas.
771
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:32,810
So, just to be clear,
you're gonna put
772
00:38:33,010 --> 00:38:36,100
a professional
negotiator on the stand
773
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:38,190
and hope you can
get him to crack?
774
00:38:39,770 --> 00:38:41,320
It's a Hail Mary at best.
775
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,110
Well, we need a Hail Mary
776
00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:47,360
and we need it to
connect or we lose.
777
00:38:59,420 --> 00:39:02,500
[engine roaring]
778
00:39:04,590 --> 00:39:08,300
I am so tired of people
spreading lies about David,
779
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:10,760
especially when the lies are
coming from one of our own.
780
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,200
How could she say those things?
781
00:39:12,340 --> 00:39:14,600
That we wanted this to happen?
782
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,980
We wanted all the
people we love to die?
783
00:39:17,180 --> 00:39:18,480
- It's insane.
- Uh-hmm.
784
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,060
It's like letting
Judas write the Gospel.
785
00:39:23,110 --> 00:39:24,900
I'm gonna testify.
786
00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:29,370
Your lawyer is
letting you speak?
787
00:39:29,570 --> 00:39:31,250
- Mine won't let me.
- Neither will mine.
788
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:32,830
I don't care.
789
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:35,210
I have a legal right to
testify if I want to.
790
00:39:35,410 --> 00:39:38,540
- We all do.
- Uh, she's right.
791
00:39:38,740 --> 00:39:41,000
It doesn't matter that
the lawyers said no.
792
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,550
Legally, they can't stop us.
793
00:39:42,750 --> 00:39:44,340
And our lawyers are
not listening to us.
794
00:39:44,540 --> 00:39:46,510
No one is listening to us.
795
00:39:46,710 --> 00:39:48,260
So we have to make them listen.
796
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,300
I don't know.
797
00:39:52,970 --> 00:39:54,980
We are good people.
798
00:39:55,180 --> 00:39:56,890
Someone needs to say it.
799
00:39:57,430 --> 00:40:00,600
We're not monsters.
David's not a monster.
800
00:40:00,980 --> 00:40:03,650
The jury needs to hear
that David would never do
801
00:40:03,850 --> 00:40:05,440
anything to hurt us.
802
00:40:07,780 --> 00:40:09,150
He loved us.
803
00:40:11,610 --> 00:40:13,540
- Someone should say something.
- Uh-hmm.
804
00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:16,740
Dramatic music plays
805
00:40:34,340 --> 00:40:37,270
[Vernon grunts]
806
00:40:37,470 --> 00:40:38,470
[sighs]
807
00:40:40,350 --> 00:40:41,900
Hey, mama.
808
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:43,730
What the hell were you thinking,
809
00:40:43,930 --> 00:40:45,770
shooting at George
Roden like that?
810
00:40:46,310 --> 00:40:49,200
- Well, they let me go.
- And if they didn't?
811
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,416
If they kept you in jail, you
think these friends of yours
812
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,620
would still be there
when you got out?
813
00:40:53,820 --> 00:40:57,250
- God told me that...
- Oh, don't give me that crap!
814
00:40:57,450 --> 00:40:59,040
They might buy this
whole messiah thing
815
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:00,756
you've been feeding
them, but I remember
816
00:41:00,780 --> 00:41:02,096
when you were still
pissing your bed.
817
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,120
Stop!
818
00:41:05,710 --> 00:41:08,840
[panting]
819
00:41:11,710 --> 00:41:13,800
God speaks to me!
820
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,680
- Vernon?
- [Vernon] He didn't choose you!
821
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,310
He didn't choose Grandma!
822
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:18,810
He chose me!
823
00:41:19,010 --> 00:41:20,100
Me!
824
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:22,560
- Vernon!
- [Vernon] Not anymore.
825
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,270
You gave me that name.
826
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:26,550
But God's got bigger plans
for me than you could ever
827
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:27,610
even thought of!
828
00:41:27,810 --> 00:41:29,110
Just get in the car.
829
00:41:29,310 --> 00:41:31,490
[sighs] God's given
me a new name.
830
00:41:31,690 --> 00:41:33,120
David Koresh.
831
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:34,920
From now on, you will
call me by my name!
832
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:37,620
I will call you by
your given name!
833
00:41:37,820 --> 00:41:39,120
Your real name!
834
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,500
David Koresh is my real name!
835
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:44,840
Or do you think you
know better than God?
836
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,840
And is it God then who told you
837
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,300
to impregnate Rachel's
little sister?
838
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:50,970
What is she, 14?
839
00:41:51,170 --> 00:41:53,640
[scoffs] You were
14 when you had me!
840
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,260
[Bonnie] And I
remember what it felt
841
00:41:55,460 --> 00:41:57,640
like to be a 14-year-old mother.
842
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,600
You know how that felt?
843
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,220
Like I was too young!
844
00:42:03,930 --> 00:42:07,650
[panting]
845
00:42:07,850 --> 00:42:11,320
I follow where God leads
846
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,030
and if you can't get
with the program, then...
847
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:16,310
Well, then you'll never see
these grandkids of yours.
848
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,490
How does that sound to
you? Is that what you want?
849
00:42:18,690 --> 00:42:21,370
And they'll ask me, "Daddy,
why don't I have a grandma?"
850
00:42:21,570 --> 00:42:23,730
And I'll say, "Oh, you do
have one out there somewhere,
851
00:42:23,870 --> 00:42:27,250
but she always had to know
best, better than God."
852
00:42:29,290 --> 00:42:31,470
Some souls just can't
be led to the spirit,
853
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:34,420
no matter how hard you
scream and shout at them.
854
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,680
Fine.
855
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,930
Just get back in the car.
856
00:42:45,470 --> 00:42:47,890
Get back in the car what?
857
00:42:50,270 --> 00:42:52,480
Get back in the car, please.
858
00:42:58,820 --> 00:43:02,070
Get back in the
car please, David.
859
00:43:03,830 --> 00:43:05,386
[crowd chanting] They're
coming for your guns!
860
00:43:05,410 --> 00:43:06,830
They're coming for your kids!
861
00:43:07,030 --> 00:43:08,420
They're coming for your guns!
862
00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:09,880
They're coming for your kids!
863
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,420
They're coming for your guns!
864
00:43:11,620 --> 00:43:13,090
They're coming for your kids!
865
00:43:13,290 --> 00:43:14,670
They're coming for your guns!
866
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,220
They're coming for your kids!
867
00:43:16,420 --> 00:43:17,720
They're coming for your guns!
868
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,260
They're coming for your kids!
869
00:43:19,460 --> 00:43:20,890
They're coming for your guns!
870
00:43:21,090 --> 00:43:22,430
They're coming for your kids!
871
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:24,390
They're coming for your guns!
872
00:43:24,590 --> 00:43:26,066
- They're coming for your kids!
- [Gary] Is it always like this?
873
00:43:26,090 --> 00:43:27,520
Been a circus since day one.
874
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:29,440
I've been telling them
we need more support,
875
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,400
especially after one of the
jurors was followed home.
876
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,160
- What?
- These guys are coming here
877
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:35,520
from all over the country.
878
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,370
[device beeps]
879
00:43:53,420 --> 00:43:56,880
So, you gonna ask Noesner
about the missing door?
880
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,670
Yeah, probably.
881
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,430
Hey, where is everyone?
882
00:44:01,630 --> 00:44:03,930
[Rocket] Hmm, maybe
the bus is late.
883
00:44:04,130 --> 00:44:05,510
[Dan] Oh, shit. Now what?
884
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,270
What's up?
885
00:44:09,470 --> 00:44:12,110
It seems we got a bit of
a mutiny on our hands.
886
00:44:12,310 --> 00:44:15,780
You're denying us our
constitutional rights.
887
00:44:15,980 --> 00:44:18,570
We have a 6th Amendment
right to self-representation,
888
00:44:18,770 --> 00:44:20,120
and you're denying
us that right.
889
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:21,830
Is this about testifying again?
890
00:44:22,030 --> 00:44:24,370
This is about
speaking the truth!
891
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:27,250
We're, we're good people, and
we just want the chance...
892
00:44:27,450 --> 00:44:28,790
Clive, we've talked about this.
893
00:44:28,990 --> 00:44:30,710
There's no way in hell
you're gonna testify.
894
00:44:30,780 --> 00:44:32,000
[overlapping chatter]
895
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,420
[Clive] We already
have an opinion on...
896
00:44:34,620 --> 00:44:37,170
[Dan] All right.
Stop. Stop! Stop!
897
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,800
[whistles]
898
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,300
You wanna testify?
899
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:44,060
You should know what
it's gonna be like.
900
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,310
Mr. Fagan, you were a follower
of David Koresh, correct?
901
00:44:48,510 --> 00:44:50,310
- Yes.
- [Dan] Did you believe him
902
00:44:50,510 --> 00:44:52,480
when he said the end
times were coming?
903
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:53,980
[Livingstone] Yes.
904
00:44:54,180 --> 00:44:56,060
Is that why you were
preparing for battle?
905
00:44:57,570 --> 00:44:59,690
A spiritual battle.
906
00:44:59,980 --> 00:45:03,070
And were people gonna die
in this spiritual battle?
907
00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:05,200
Yes.
908
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,450
Mr. Fagan, have you
ever shot anyone?
909
00:45:09,950 --> 00:45:13,040
Mr. Fagan, you swore on a
Bible to tell the truth.
910
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:15,500
Now, I'll ask you again.
Have you ever shot anyone?
911
00:45:15,700 --> 00:45:17,510
- Dan...
- No, no, no. They wanna do this.
912
00:45:17,710 --> 00:45:21,090
Mr. Fatta, in 1988, you
were in a gun battle?
913
00:45:22,590 --> 00:45:24,470
[scoffs] Yes.
914
00:45:24,670 --> 00:45:26,180
[Dan] A battle led
by David Koresh,
915
00:45:26,380 --> 00:45:28,560
for which you were
both arrested.
916
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,720
What crime were
you charged with?
917
00:45:32,180 --> 00:45:34,900
- Attempted murder.
- Attempted murder!
918
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,530
You were prepared to kill
for Mr. Koresh, weren't you?
919
00:45:37,730 --> 00:45:39,530
Because you would do
anything Mr. Koresh said.
920
00:45:39,730 --> 00:45:40,740
It wasn't like that.
921
00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:42,660
We made our own choices.
922
00:45:42,860 --> 00:45:45,330
So you had free will?
923
00:45:45,530 --> 00:45:48,160
- Yes.
- And what about you, Mr. Doyle,
924
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,000
- were you brainwashed?
- No.
925
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,640
So you made your
own choices as well?
926
00:45:51,700 --> 00:45:53,250
- Yes.
- So you chose to let
927
00:45:53,450 --> 00:45:56,580
your 12-year-old daughter
marry a 30-year-old man?
928
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,380
You don't understand...
929
00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:03,896
- [Dan] And what about you?
- What we...
930
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:04,936
[Dan] You knew
what was going on.
931
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,220
Did you say anything?
932
00:46:06,420 --> 00:46:08,180
You have to know the Bible.
933
00:46:08,380 --> 00:46:10,640
What about you? Did
you say anything?
934
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,230
Did you? Or maybe
you didn't care
935
00:46:14,430 --> 00:46:16,150
because you had a son
instead of a daughter.
936
00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:17,260
That's not fair!
937
00:46:17,390 --> 00:46:18,900
You are all complicit.
938
00:46:19,100 --> 00:46:21,360
You all saw, you knew, and
you didn't say anything.
939
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:22,800
Do you know what the legal term
940
00:46:22,940 --> 00:46:24,360
for these marriages
of David's is?
941
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:25,700
It's rape.
942
00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:27,780
It wasn't rape!
943
00:46:27,980 --> 00:46:28,980
It wasn't even sexual!
944
00:46:29,110 --> 00:46:30,120
David married them
945
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:31,620
in order to have children!
946
00:46:31,820 --> 00:46:34,370
Is that why he married
a ten-year-old girl,
947
00:46:34,570 --> 00:46:36,540
because she was so fertile?
948
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,630
You are not guilty of the
crime you've been accused of.
949
00:46:44,830 --> 00:46:47,220
And what the government
did at Mount Carmel
950
00:46:47,420 --> 00:46:49,220
is an abomination.
951
00:46:51,180 --> 00:46:52,930
But you're not innocent either.
952
00:46:53,130 --> 00:46:55,270
And if you get up
there to testify,
953
00:46:55,470 --> 00:46:57,890
that's all anybody
will be left with.
954
00:47:11,870 --> 00:47:13,370
[sighs]
955
00:47:14,540 --> 00:47:17,580
dramatic music plays
956
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,430
[singer] Everybody
wants to go to heaven
957
00:47:32,430 --> 00:47:35,930
Everybody wants to go to heaven
70138
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