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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:14,621 --> 00:00:18,621 www.titlovi.com 2 00:00:21,621 --> 00:00:23,790 DAVID PAULIDES: How do you put this behind you and move forward? 3 00:00:23,823 --> 00:00:27,026 That's something I ask each missing person family 4 00:00:27,060 --> 00:00:29,496 because I don't understand how you can do that. 5 00:00:29,529 --> 00:00:31,297 -I can't. -Yeah. 6 00:00:31,331 --> 00:00:34,834 I mean, you know, I want some type of closure. 7 00:00:34,868 --> 00:00:36,669 I want him to be found. 8 00:00:39,572 --> 00:00:41,841 DAVID: One of the most confusing and frustrating 9 00:00:41,875 --> 00:00:43,309 investigations by law enforcement 10 00:00:43,343 --> 00:00:45,078 is related to people who disappear 11 00:00:45,111 --> 00:00:47,147 in highly rural locations, 12 00:00:47,180 --> 00:00:51,351 forests, plains, deserts and regions with few residences. 13 00:00:52,352 --> 00:00:54,287 These cases offer no witnesses, 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,724 few clues and a strange lack of evidence. 15 00:00:57,757 --> 00:00:59,225 Where are these people? 16 00:00:59,259 --> 00:01:01,828 How did they disappear without leaving a scent trail, 17 00:01:01,861 --> 00:01:05,632 no tracks and a distinct lack of physical evidence. 18 00:01:05,665 --> 00:01:07,801 The investigators left with the distraught family 19 00:01:07,834 --> 00:01:11,204 grieving about a missing loved one, wanting them found, 20 00:01:11,237 --> 00:01:13,039 where many times the search area 21 00:01:13,072 --> 00:01:14,841 is the size of a national forest. 22 00:01:16,342 --> 00:01:17,644 My name is David Paulides. 23 00:01:17,677 --> 00:01:19,679 I'm a former San Jose police officer 24 00:01:19,712 --> 00:01:22,649 who has worked with complex and long term investigations, 25 00:01:22,682 --> 00:01:25,251 while being assigned to Vice & Intelligence, 26 00:01:25,285 --> 00:01:28,721 street crimes, SWAT, and various detective roles. 27 00:01:29,389 --> 00:01:30,590 I'm a bestselling author, 28 00:01:30,623 --> 00:01:33,693 investigating missing people in national parks, forests 29 00:01:33,726 --> 00:01:36,529 and rural locations for over 20 years. 30 00:01:36,563 --> 00:01:38,698 The investigative process has led me to interview 31 00:01:38,731 --> 00:01:41,167 incredible witnesses that tell a fantastic story 32 00:01:41,201 --> 00:01:43,436 that challenges the investigative protocols 33 00:01:43,470 --> 00:01:45,271 every detective follows. 34 00:01:45,305 --> 00:01:48,041 We are staring at unconventional possibilities 35 00:01:48,074 --> 00:01:49,776 supported by witnesses, video 36 00:01:49,809 --> 00:01:52,312 and most recently, our own government. 37 00:01:59,018 --> 00:02:02,388 The human species has been watching the Earth for thousands of years. 38 00:02:02,422 --> 00:02:04,524 Hunting, gathering and observing. 39 00:02:05,725 --> 00:02:07,794 From the moment we left our cave, 40 00:02:07,827 --> 00:02:09,128 we have looked to the skies 41 00:02:09,162 --> 00:02:10,296 in amazement and wonder 42 00:02:10,330 --> 00:02:12,432 about unidentified objects. 43 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:15,535 MAN 1: Are you recording? 44 00:02:16,236 --> 00:02:18,605 MAN 2: What's that? 45 00:02:18,638 --> 00:02:20,807 DAVID: In just the last 100-plus years, 46 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,009 we have left the ground and flown into the clouds 47 00:02:23,042 --> 00:02:25,845 with a different perspective about our life in this world. 48 00:02:29,816 --> 00:02:32,986 DAVID: We've continued to be amazed and perplexed by flying objects 49 00:02:33,019 --> 00:02:34,787 that have capabilities far beyond 50 00:02:34,821 --> 00:02:37,156 what our government says is ours. 51 00:02:37,190 --> 00:02:39,225 Are these crafts piloted by entities 52 00:02:39,259 --> 00:02:40,727 that have our best interests? 53 00:02:42,495 --> 00:02:44,531 Is our planet merely the ant farm 54 00:02:44,564 --> 00:02:47,233 for complex societies light years from Earth? 55 00:02:48,368 --> 00:02:51,704 Could it be we offer other worlds new DNA 56 00:02:51,738 --> 00:02:55,008 that's needed to refurbish their existence? 57 00:02:55,041 --> 00:02:59,846 Or are they driven by a plan that is so far beyond our capability to comprehend 58 00:02:59,879 --> 00:03:02,515 that the human mind isn't programmed to accept 59 00:03:02,549 --> 00:03:04,651 and live with the consequences? 60 00:03:04,684 --> 00:03:06,819 Join me on a fact finding journey 61 00:03:06,853 --> 00:03:08,288 that has never been disclosed. 62 00:03:08,321 --> 00:03:10,390 Keep an open mind on the possibilities 63 00:03:10,423 --> 00:03:12,191 and a warm and compassionate heart 64 00:03:12,225 --> 00:03:13,493 for the missing. 65 00:03:17,864 --> 00:03:19,933 GEORGE KNAPP: In multiple Missing 411 books, 66 00:03:19,966 --> 00:03:23,670 it looks like people are snatched out of off the ground 67 00:03:23,703 --> 00:03:25,838 and then some of them are dropped back 68 00:03:25,872 --> 00:03:27,340 into these locations. 69 00:03:27,373 --> 00:03:29,275 The little kids that are suddenly, 70 00:03:29,309 --> 00:03:30,944 miles and miles away. 71 00:03:30,977 --> 00:03:33,646 It seems like, I know you don't want to commit 72 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,150 to any particular explanation 73 00:03:37,183 --> 00:03:41,387 because you don't have enough evidence to to point at one in particular. 74 00:03:41,421 --> 00:03:42,922 But some of this stuff 75 00:03:42,956 --> 00:03:46,192 certainly ventures into the area of the paranormal 76 00:03:46,225 --> 00:03:48,428 and, uh, and one of the stories 77 00:03:48,461 --> 00:03:51,431 that I was able to break earlier this year was about Skinwalker Ranch, 78 00:03:51,464 --> 00:03:55,535 that, a program that had been created by the Pentagon 79 00:03:55,568 --> 00:03:58,204 uh, to look at UFOs 80 00:03:58,237 --> 00:04:01,174 also went much further than it studied, 81 00:04:01,207 --> 00:04:04,644 we would call paranormal events, unexplained mysteries 82 00:04:04,677 --> 00:04:07,447 at places like Skinwalker Ranch and elsewhere. 83 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,749 And earlier this year I was invited to go back 84 00:04:09,782 --> 00:04:13,753 by Senator Harry Reid to meet with two people whose names I cannot, 85 00:04:14,387 --> 00:04:15,688 cannot make public. 86 00:04:15,722 --> 00:04:17,957 One of these guys pulls me aside 87 00:04:17,991 --> 00:04:19,759 and then he said, 88 00:04:19,792 --> 00:04:21,861 "You know, we think that that guy David Paulides 89 00:04:21,894 --> 00:04:25,765 "that uh, that his mystery with these missing people 90 00:04:25,798 --> 00:04:28,134 "might be related to the phenomenon at the ranch." 91 00:04:28,868 --> 00:04:30,903 But the idea that the phenomena 92 00:04:30,937 --> 00:04:32,205 that's been seen there, 93 00:04:32,238 --> 00:04:34,073 which is sometimes playful 94 00:04:34,107 --> 00:04:35,541 and sometimes dangerous, 95 00:04:35,575 --> 00:04:38,378 might be related to yours, startled me. 96 00:04:38,411 --> 00:04:40,213 And I don't know how you react to that, 97 00:04:40,246 --> 00:04:42,682 but maybe it makes you uncomfortable 98 00:04:42,715 --> 00:04:45,418 uh, being associated with anything as weird as that, 99 00:04:45,451 --> 00:04:47,020 but your stuff's pretty weird, too. 100 00:04:47,053 --> 00:04:48,388 [RECORDER CLICK OFF] 101 00:04:50,390 --> 00:04:54,427 DAVID: So after reviewing several thousand missing person cases, 102 00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:57,697 several distinct facts started to come up. 103 00:04:57,730 --> 00:05:00,700 And I started to put piles of these reports 104 00:05:00,733 --> 00:05:02,435 in different areas of my room 105 00:05:02,468 --> 00:05:07,140 that indicated certain points of importance. 106 00:05:07,173 --> 00:05:09,842 And after a while I started to call these, "profile points". 107 00:05:09,876 --> 00:05:15,381 As an example, in 97% of the cases that I research, 108 00:05:15,415 --> 00:05:16,716 one of the profile points, 109 00:05:16,749 --> 00:05:19,185 is that canines brought to the scene 110 00:05:19,218 --> 00:05:21,688 can't pick up a scent trail. 111 00:05:21,721 --> 00:05:25,692 They bring trackers to the scene and they can't find tracks 112 00:05:25,725 --> 00:05:28,728 leaving the location that the person was last seen at. 113 00:05:28,761 --> 00:05:30,730 So the number one profile point 114 00:05:30,763 --> 00:05:33,366 in our work is lack of scent trail. 115 00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:35,535 Some of the most common profile points 116 00:05:35,568 --> 00:05:37,603 would be weather related issues, 117 00:05:37,637 --> 00:05:39,939 either just as the person disappears 118 00:05:39,972 --> 00:05:42,141 or just after they're, they're missing, 119 00:05:42,175 --> 00:05:46,012 or when the search starts, there's a weather incident 120 00:05:46,045 --> 00:05:50,750 that inhibits the searchers ability to find the individual. 121 00:05:50,783 --> 00:05:54,153 Another one is the victim's found in an area 122 00:05:54,187 --> 00:05:55,988 that was previously searched. 123 00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:58,958 Oftentimes an area will be searched 124 00:05:58,991 --> 00:06:01,027 five, six, seven times, 125 00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:03,396 and then all of a sudden when they're getting ready to pull out, 126 00:06:03,429 --> 00:06:05,198 the search and rescue says we give up, 127 00:06:05,231 --> 00:06:07,867 they find the person in the middle of the area 128 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:11,003 that had been searched many, many times. 129 00:06:11,037 --> 00:06:12,772 Oftentimes when somebody goes missing, 130 00:06:12,805 --> 00:06:15,575 they go missing in an area near water, 131 00:06:15,608 --> 00:06:18,678 or boulders or swamps and bogs. 132 00:06:18,711 --> 00:06:21,748 And once these profile points were established, 133 00:06:21,781 --> 00:06:25,985 and this is after reading thousands of reports, I started to document them. 134 00:06:26,018 --> 00:06:29,756 And say, "Okay, if these are gonna be the profile points 135 00:06:29,789 --> 00:06:32,158 "that we use moving forward, then these will be the ones 136 00:06:32,191 --> 00:06:34,927 "that we have to look for in the reports as they come in." 137 00:06:34,961 --> 00:06:39,432 This has become the overshadowing criteria 138 00:06:39,465 --> 00:06:41,501 for a Missing 411 case. 139 00:06:43,302 --> 00:06:44,837 And in this instance 140 00:06:44,871 --> 00:06:46,973 we're in Vancouver, British Columbia, 141 00:06:47,006 --> 00:06:50,109 and we are researching a case of a missing hunter, 142 00:06:50,143 --> 00:06:53,613 someone who had visited the same location, 143 00:06:53,646 --> 00:06:55,948 20 times in 20 years. 144 00:06:55,982 --> 00:06:58,951 It's a location that he and his wife have come to many times. 145 00:06:58,985 --> 00:07:02,288 In this instance, he came out alone. 146 00:07:02,321 --> 00:07:04,924 He brought his dogs, his camper, 147 00:07:04,957 --> 00:07:07,493 and his raft, to do a little fishing, 148 00:07:07,527 --> 00:07:10,797 sightseeing and just relaxing in nature. 149 00:07:10,830 --> 00:07:15,034 And he disappeared on the shores of Harrison Lake. 150 00:07:15,067 --> 00:07:19,138 And we still don't know what really happened to Ray Salmen. 151 00:07:19,172 --> 00:07:22,508 DANIELA SALMEN: Ray was an outdoor camper-hunter-fisherman. 152 00:07:22,542 --> 00:07:25,077 Grew up in the woods, northern Ontario. 153 00:07:25,111 --> 00:07:30,116 Uh, very experienced and a safe outdoorsman. 154 00:07:30,149 --> 00:07:31,984 Thirty-two years, we were married together. 155 00:07:32,018 --> 00:07:34,020 For about a year-and-a-half before that, 156 00:07:34,053 --> 00:07:36,689 he would have rather gone hunting, camping with me 157 00:07:36,722 --> 00:07:37,690 than with anyone else. 158 00:07:37,723 --> 00:07:38,925 He was always telling me that. 159 00:07:38,958 --> 00:07:41,060 But I am a fair weather camper. 160 00:07:41,093 --> 00:07:42,962 I would not have been out in the bush 161 00:07:42,995 --> 00:07:45,798 if it wasn't for Ray, Ray made it wonderful. 162 00:07:48,267 --> 00:07:51,170 JOHN MILES: At the time I met him, he was about 65. 163 00:07:52,071 --> 00:07:54,373 Just recently retired. 164 00:07:54,407 --> 00:07:56,676 He worked for Rogers Sugar in Vancouver 165 00:07:56,709 --> 00:07:59,946 as chief maintenance man. 166 00:07:59,979 --> 00:08:02,915 He was empathetic. He was concerned about 167 00:08:02,949 --> 00:08:07,587 what you felt about something, which is rare today. 168 00:08:07,620 --> 00:08:10,623 And I liked that, I enjoyed his company. 169 00:08:10,656 --> 00:08:13,559 He is the type of guy who is from the old school. 170 00:08:13,593 --> 00:08:15,261 He had this adventurous spirit. 171 00:08:15,294 --> 00:08:19,398 He had a map of British Columbia in a booklet form. 172 00:08:19,432 --> 00:08:22,835 Very seldom would I find a blank page 173 00:08:22,869 --> 00:08:26,639 part of this province that Ray hadn't visited. 174 00:08:32,745 --> 00:08:35,181 DAVID: So he drove up to Harrison Lake 175 00:08:35,214 --> 00:08:37,850 -from your home here. -DANIELA: Right. 176 00:08:37,884 --> 00:08:40,453 DAVID: In a truck with a camper? DANIELA: Right. 177 00:08:40,486 --> 00:08:42,889 And what else did he have with him? 178 00:08:42,922 --> 00:08:46,492 DANIELA: A fridge, a furnace, air conditioner, a few rifles 179 00:08:46,525 --> 00:08:48,461 and maybe a couple of pistols with him. 180 00:08:48,494 --> 00:08:51,998 And he took his Zodiac with him and a motor on the Zodiac. 181 00:08:52,031 --> 00:08:55,468 He had a complete life jacket. Good flotation device. 182 00:08:55,501 --> 00:08:56,736 So fully equipped. 183 00:08:56,769 --> 00:08:58,271 He had the two dogs, 184 00:08:58,304 --> 00:09:00,740 and if anything comes around, they would bark. 185 00:09:00,773 --> 00:09:02,775 DAVID: He'd been to the spot many times before? 186 00:09:02,808 --> 00:09:05,211 DANIELA: Many times because you can get there, 187 00:09:05,244 --> 00:09:07,780 when he was still working, he could go a Friday after work 188 00:09:07,813 --> 00:09:10,082 and get there and set up camp 189 00:09:10,116 --> 00:09:12,084 and I've been with him a couple of times. 190 00:09:12,118 --> 00:09:14,387 We've gone for a week at a time. 191 00:09:14,420 --> 00:09:16,722 DAVID: And again for clarity, he doesn't go 192 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:19,225 -and just sit at his camper all day? -No. 193 00:09:19,258 --> 00:09:22,628 DAVID: He's out going over the hillsides, walking around. 194 00:09:22,662 --> 00:09:26,732 So he's been all through the mountain sides in this area 195 00:09:26,766 --> 00:09:28,935 -many times in the past. -Correct. 196 00:09:28,968 --> 00:09:31,003 JOHN: He says, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna camp down 197 00:09:31,037 --> 00:09:33,506 "by the lake in this certain spot." 198 00:09:33,539 --> 00:09:35,207 So he says, "I gotta get going now 199 00:09:35,241 --> 00:09:37,643 "because I've got to set up camp before dark." 200 00:09:37,677 --> 00:09:39,078 That's the last time I've seen him. 201 00:09:40,613 --> 00:09:43,416 We were planning to go out of the lake 202 00:09:43,449 --> 00:09:46,218 and look for old gold mines. 203 00:09:46,252 --> 00:09:50,856 He says, "I'll come down in the Zodiac and pick you up on Monday morning." 204 00:09:50,890 --> 00:09:54,994 On Sunday afternoon, I was doing some repair work 205 00:09:55,027 --> 00:09:58,364 on a trailer up here and we heard three gunshots. 206 00:09:58,397 --> 00:10:02,001 [GUNSHOTS] 207 00:10:03,469 --> 00:10:07,039 Home alone downstairs, watching TV and the doorbell rings. 208 00:10:07,073 --> 00:10:09,675 And it was a Vancouver City police officer, 209 00:10:09,709 --> 00:10:12,545 and she was asking if Ray Salmen is home. 210 00:10:12,578 --> 00:10:14,947 So I went, "What is it? What's wrong? Why are you asking me this?" 211 00:10:14,981 --> 00:10:18,751 And she said she didn't have any information, 212 00:10:18,784 --> 00:10:20,186 and I couldn't contact Ray 213 00:10:20,219 --> 00:10:21,587 even though he had a cell phone. 214 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:25,024 There isn't any, uh, cell phone coverage at Harrison Lake. 215 00:10:25,057 --> 00:10:27,760 I think I phoned the RCMP at about five in the morning 216 00:10:27,793 --> 00:10:29,295 and they were very brief. 217 00:10:29,328 --> 00:10:31,564 They never gave me any details at the time. 218 00:10:31,597 --> 00:10:33,733 They just said he is missing. 219 00:10:33,766 --> 00:10:35,134 So I didn't know if he was 220 00:10:35,167 --> 00:10:38,604 walking with the dogs somewhere and didn't make it back. 221 00:10:38,637 --> 00:10:41,107 And as he said to me, 222 00:10:41,140 --> 00:10:43,609 "If you're injured, if you're in the woods and you're injured, 223 00:10:43,642 --> 00:10:45,478 "you wait for them to come to you. 224 00:10:45,511 --> 00:10:48,781 "Don't start trying to crawl around wasting energy if you can't. 225 00:10:48,814 --> 00:10:50,216 "They will come and they will look for you." 226 00:10:50,249 --> 00:10:52,685 And I thought, "Okay, I know what's happened now." 227 00:10:54,220 --> 00:10:56,722 ADAM PALMER: A call came in about going out to search 228 00:10:56,756 --> 00:11:00,659 for a possible missing person at this spot. 229 00:11:00,693 --> 00:11:04,163 The team knew, I was actually, I had a lot of experience in this area. 230 00:11:04,196 --> 00:11:05,998 So I was one of the first team members 231 00:11:06,032 --> 00:11:07,566 to arrive at that scene that day. 232 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,636 When we showed up, his truck and camper were right at this very spot. 233 00:11:10,669 --> 00:11:13,839 All his belongings were kind of laid out under the tarp. 234 00:11:13,873 --> 00:11:15,641 His truck and camper looked in great shape. 235 00:11:15,674 --> 00:11:20,012 The RCMP goes up, they find the truck and the camper locked. 236 00:11:20,046 --> 00:11:24,216 Dogs inside, two dogs, and nobody is around. 237 00:11:25,418 --> 00:11:27,520 If Ray went out for a hike, 238 00:11:27,553 --> 00:11:29,555 -would he take the dogs? -Definitely. 239 00:11:29,588 --> 00:11:32,124 -So he wouldn't leave them in? -Never leave the dogs in. 240 00:11:32,158 --> 00:11:34,293 This is what he's got the dogs for. 241 00:11:34,326 --> 00:11:37,830 So in your mind, why would he lock the camper door? 242 00:11:39,598 --> 00:11:41,100 Unless there was a danger to the dogs. 243 00:11:41,133 --> 00:11:44,370 But what kind of danger would be there to the dogs. 244 00:11:44,403 --> 00:11:46,505 ADAM: It was the strangest thing. 245 00:11:46,539 --> 00:11:49,809 I've never showed up to a search where we had full E.R.T members 246 00:11:49,842 --> 00:11:52,311 and there was guys with fully automatic weapons 247 00:11:52,344 --> 00:11:54,213 and I remember it very specifically 248 00:11:54,246 --> 00:11:55,681 because I've never showed up to a search 249 00:11:55,714 --> 00:11:57,149 where we're searching alongside 250 00:11:57,183 --> 00:11:59,285 the Emergency Response Team members. 251 00:12:00,586 --> 00:12:03,055 I was with the RCMP for 31 years, 252 00:12:03,089 --> 00:12:06,425 and back here where I'm from, in the Fraser Valley, 253 00:12:06,459 --> 00:12:08,894 I was here for 22 years. 254 00:12:08,928 --> 00:12:10,362 DAVID: Are you familiar with the Ray Salmen 255 00:12:10,396 --> 00:12:12,832 -disappearance on Harrison Lake? -Yes. 256 00:12:12,865 --> 00:12:17,536 DAVID: So on a disappearance of a, a missing person case, 257 00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:20,873 can you fathom in your own mind why they would send out 258 00:12:20,906 --> 00:12:23,409 an RCMP SWAT team? 259 00:12:23,442 --> 00:12:25,077 For the unanswered questions. 260 00:12:25,111 --> 00:12:27,913 Are we looking at someone who got murdered? 261 00:12:27,947 --> 00:12:30,416 Are we looking at somebody who got kidnapped? 262 00:12:30,449 --> 00:12:34,253 Or they may have a tip that nobody knows about. 263 00:12:34,286 --> 00:12:36,922 I don't know about, top-secret kind of stuff. 264 00:12:36,956 --> 00:12:38,791 I remember an officer telling me, 265 00:12:38,824 --> 00:12:41,727 kids showed up at the Agassiz RCMP detachment, 266 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,864 saying that their vehicle was shot at. 267 00:12:44,897 --> 00:12:47,299 And I remember later talking to the RCMP officer 268 00:12:47,333 --> 00:12:49,969 saying that kids reported their headlights being shot out. 269 00:12:50,002 --> 00:12:53,038 If he shot out somebody's headlights, 270 00:12:54,306 --> 00:12:57,176 and he was that good of a shot to shoot out the headlights, 271 00:12:57,209 --> 00:12:59,545 then he was probably trying 272 00:12:59,578 --> 00:13:02,815 to get attention to where he was? 273 00:13:02,848 --> 00:13:04,216 I don't know if I would shoot 274 00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:05,684 at someone's car to get attention, 275 00:13:05,718 --> 00:13:07,319 because what's going in my mind is, 276 00:13:07,353 --> 00:13:09,955 "Oh, my God, what if I accidentally hit someone?" 277 00:13:09,989 --> 00:13:12,158 Now we know Ray was a responsible hunter, 278 00:13:12,191 --> 00:13:14,293 had a license to have his guns, 279 00:13:14,326 --> 00:13:17,229 had hunted for decades, so, yeah, I am with you. 280 00:13:17,263 --> 00:13:19,832 I believe that, that is very strange behavior. 281 00:13:19,865 --> 00:13:22,434 I remember thinking, "Well that, that wouldn't have been Ray." 282 00:13:22,468 --> 00:13:24,403 Ray wouldn't be shooting, if he did anything, 283 00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:27,673 as he told me, "You shoot three times in the air for SOS." 284 00:13:27,706 --> 00:13:31,977 Now, there is more to the story than just Ray missing. 285 00:13:32,011 --> 00:13:34,513 But not knowing what. 286 00:13:34,547 --> 00:13:37,116 Right directly behind him was the grad party. 287 00:13:37,149 --> 00:13:39,685 So the party was happening up over here. 288 00:13:39,718 --> 00:13:41,687 There was estimated to be above 50, 289 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,589 50 people at that party, and there was 290 00:13:43,622 --> 00:13:46,825 a massive amount of garbage we cleaned up when we got here. 291 00:13:46,859 --> 00:13:51,463 And they didn't consider that possible evidence as well? 292 00:13:51,497 --> 00:13:54,400 Something seemed wrong, um, at that point. 293 00:13:54,433 --> 00:13:57,303 DAVID: When you hear the search and rescue persons 294 00:13:57,336 --> 00:13:59,572 rendition of what just happened, 295 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,176 I don't think in 7,000 cases 296 00:14:04,210 --> 00:14:07,379 that I've ever heard anything so strange 297 00:14:07,413 --> 00:14:11,617 as telling a search and rescue group to go pick up a grad party's 298 00:14:11,650 --> 00:14:13,352 remains of what they left 299 00:14:13,385 --> 00:14:15,421 and then, coupled with the fact that 300 00:14:15,454 --> 00:14:18,424 there were shots fired at the scene 301 00:14:18,457 --> 00:14:22,895 and they bring in a special weapons team to the area. 302 00:14:23,963 --> 00:14:26,465 But that wasn't it. 303 00:14:26,498 --> 00:14:29,568 The more you hear, the stranger this story gets. 304 00:14:29,602 --> 00:14:32,738 ADAM: We would hike for a couple hours in here and start grid searching, 305 00:14:32,771 --> 00:14:37,243 and we would just basically come back to this point then go again. 306 00:14:37,276 --> 00:14:40,279 Then we also got on ATVs, and so we had boats. 307 00:14:40,312 --> 00:14:43,315 We had two watercraft in the lake at that time, 308 00:14:43,349 --> 00:14:46,018 searching the shoreline, air support as well. 309 00:14:46,051 --> 00:14:47,453 DAVID: And I remember when I first talked to you, 310 00:14:47,486 --> 00:14:49,355 you said you were told not to go into the bush? 311 00:14:49,388 --> 00:14:50,656 On the second day, 312 00:14:50,689 --> 00:14:52,758 his belongings were found by air. 313 00:14:52,791 --> 00:14:54,693 They spotted his clothes. 314 00:14:54,727 --> 00:14:56,462 Now, this is a day, 315 00:14:56,495 --> 00:14:58,497 if not two days after the initial search. 316 00:14:58,530 --> 00:15:01,333 It wasn't even probably an hour or two after that, 317 00:15:01,367 --> 00:15:06,338 I remember the corporal, the RCMP members, still in uniform, 318 00:15:06,372 --> 00:15:10,109 coming out of the bush, saying it's unsearchable. 319 00:15:10,142 --> 00:15:13,178 We found his, his clothes. 320 00:15:13,212 --> 00:15:15,347 Um, it's not worth it to go in there. 321 00:15:15,381 --> 00:15:18,083 It's so clear because I was like, "Nothing is unsearchable." 322 00:15:18,117 --> 00:15:20,753 Why would they all of a sudden just call it that quickly? 323 00:15:20,786 --> 00:15:24,657 DAVID: I asked Adam to show me the location where Ray's clothes were found. 324 00:15:25,591 --> 00:15:27,993 Strangely, there was even a worn out 325 00:15:28,027 --> 00:15:30,562 search and rescue tag on a tree. 326 00:15:30,596 --> 00:15:34,199 ADAM: This is where his clothes were probably most likely found. 327 00:15:34,233 --> 00:15:38,003 It's very old. It's, yeah, that would be from that time period. 328 00:15:38,037 --> 00:15:42,374 DAVID: The search uncovered via helicopter 329 00:15:42,408 --> 00:15:45,344 some folded items under a log, 330 00:15:45,377 --> 00:15:49,248 and his rifle 400 yards north of his truck, 331 00:15:49,281 --> 00:15:51,383 right on the beach. 332 00:15:51,417 --> 00:15:56,155 And then over a small hill quite a distance away, 333 00:15:56,188 --> 00:15:58,424 they found his pistol laying in a meadow. 334 00:15:58,457 --> 00:16:00,959 DANIELA: They would, they would give me bits and pieces. 335 00:16:00,993 --> 00:16:02,328 They would call, they would say, 336 00:16:02,361 --> 00:16:04,430 "Oh, we found Ray's backpack under a tree." 337 00:16:04,463 --> 00:16:06,398 And then later on they told me, 338 00:16:06,432 --> 00:16:09,335 somewhere in a field they found his nine -millimeter. 339 00:16:09,368 --> 00:16:14,173 And I thought Ray would never leave a pistol anywhere. 340 00:16:14,206 --> 00:16:18,210 So you're into it a few days, they found these items, 341 00:16:18,243 --> 00:16:22,614 uh, I read that it was the feeling of the RCMP that he must be in the water. 342 00:16:22,648 --> 00:16:24,416 Is that true? 343 00:16:24,450 --> 00:16:28,487 As they were saying, "Oh, we think he must have drowned," 344 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,989 and I thought, "Well, that doesn't make any sense." 345 00:16:31,023 --> 00:16:33,392 His boat is at the campsite, 346 00:16:33,425 --> 00:16:34,993 so he wouldn't have fallen off the boat. 347 00:16:35,027 --> 00:16:36,295 And if he was on the boat, 348 00:16:36,328 --> 00:16:38,797 he would have had his life jacket on. 349 00:16:38,831 --> 00:16:40,065 The official report says, 350 00:16:40,099 --> 00:16:42,368 he was injured and got into the water 351 00:16:42,401 --> 00:16:44,703 and was trying to swim back, and that's how he drowned. 352 00:16:44,737 --> 00:16:46,739 But it was hard to believe. 353 00:16:46,772 --> 00:16:49,208 DAVID: If anybody said, "Well, he was stripping his clothes 354 00:16:49,241 --> 00:16:50,542 because he had hypothermia"? 355 00:16:50,576 --> 00:16:52,911 It wasn't raining and it was June. 356 00:16:52,945 --> 00:16:54,146 It was, it was warm 357 00:16:54,179 --> 00:16:57,916 and I was even up at 6,000-feet elevation, 358 00:16:57,950 --> 00:16:59,885 and I was in a T-shirt, sweating. 359 00:16:59,918 --> 00:17:00,886 DANIELA: They never found 360 00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:04,323 any traces of any blood, animal or human. 361 00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:05,624 They even said it was unusual 362 00:17:05,657 --> 00:17:08,293 that they had that many tracking dogs 363 00:17:08,327 --> 00:17:10,162 and never found a track. 364 00:17:10,195 --> 00:17:12,231 DAVID: Or a scent? DANIELA: Or a scent. 365 00:17:13,132 --> 00:17:14,700 DAVID: That's an important point. 366 00:17:14,733 --> 00:17:17,302 When you go from the point of the pistol, 367 00:17:18,237 --> 00:17:22,207 from the camper to the beach, 368 00:17:22,241 --> 00:17:28,380 you have an established area to start from, to go to. 369 00:17:28,414 --> 00:17:30,482 It's not like you're going blindly at this point. 370 00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:32,351 So the dogs should have been able 371 00:17:32,384 --> 00:17:35,821 to track Ray point-to-point-to-point pretty easily, 372 00:17:35,854 --> 00:17:37,423 and they didn't. 373 00:17:37,456 --> 00:17:41,326 The RCMP had a search boat, combing the shoreline. 374 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,997 Ray's wife also hired a private response team 375 00:17:45,030 --> 00:17:47,266 to come in and also search the area. 376 00:17:47,299 --> 00:17:49,101 No body was ever recovered. 377 00:17:49,134 --> 00:17:51,737 So Daniela went out with the search boat 378 00:17:51,770 --> 00:17:55,407 and actually spent hours on scene looking for her husband. 379 00:17:55,441 --> 00:17:56,942 I had arranged with the Ralston's 380 00:17:56,975 --> 00:17:59,545 to come down and search for Ray. 381 00:17:59,578 --> 00:18:01,246 DAVID: Daniela told us from the beginning 382 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,616 that she thought that the RCMP was pushing 383 00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:08,020 this probability that Ray was in the water. 384 00:18:08,053 --> 00:18:09,855 And talking to search and rescue people 385 00:18:09,888 --> 00:18:13,325 they didn't necessarily believe Ray was in the water. 386 00:18:13,358 --> 00:18:14,927 And I'm not sure if you guys were aware, 387 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,363 but they found his pistol on top of a mountain, 388 00:18:18,397 --> 00:18:20,666 not even anywhere near the water. 389 00:18:20,699 --> 00:18:23,402 -And Daniela said there is no way... - {end-italic} GENE RALSTON: Yeah. 390 00:18:23,435 --> 00:18:25,237 -...Ray would lose such a pistol. -Yeah. 391 00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:27,573 -Had you heard that? -We hadn't heard that, no. 392 00:18:27,606 --> 00:18:29,641 So it's interesting. Initially, I don't think 393 00:18:29,675 --> 00:18:34,480 they wanted to give me back his, um, guns and rifles. 394 00:18:34,513 --> 00:18:35,914 DAVID: What about the backpack? 395 00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:37,316 No, I didn't get that back. 396 00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:39,618 DAVID: Don't you think that's odd? 397 00:18:42,354 --> 00:18:45,290 They weren't there to explain themselves to me. 398 00:18:45,324 --> 00:18:48,794 DAVID: Ever be a reason to lie to the victim family? 399 00:18:48,827 --> 00:18:52,397 No, not from police, no. 400 00:18:53,932 --> 00:18:55,868 -Ever? -No, never. 401 00:18:57,302 --> 00:18:59,037 DAVID: It became blatantly obvious 402 00:18:59,071 --> 00:19:02,774 that the RCMP was withholding information from Daniela. 403 00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:05,143 Files obtained through the Freedom of Information Act 404 00:19:05,177 --> 00:19:07,246 turned up blacked out paragraphs. 405 00:19:07,279 --> 00:19:09,014 I have encountered similar issues 406 00:19:09,047 --> 00:19:10,482 through the Freedom of Information Act 407 00:19:10,516 --> 00:19:12,117 and the release of details. 408 00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:15,587 Some of the off-the-record interviews that we were doing, 409 00:19:15,621 --> 00:19:18,357 alluded to a connection to some of the local legends 410 00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:20,759 and bizarre sightings within this area. 411 00:19:20,792 --> 00:19:23,896 People that go missing or these things that happen that don't quite make sense. 412 00:19:23,929 --> 00:19:25,497 It happens in an area where 413 00:19:25,531 --> 00:19:27,633 a lot of time, there's gold or there's a history. 414 00:19:27,666 --> 00:19:29,268 There's a legacy. There's legends. 415 00:19:29,301 --> 00:19:31,336 There are stories of past occurrences. 416 00:19:31,370 --> 00:19:33,472 There's a reason why they're called sky ancestors. 417 00:19:33,505 --> 00:19:38,777 DAVID: We heard that the RCMP has a policy about UFOs? 418 00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:39,878 Yes. 419 00:19:39,912 --> 00:19:41,547 Tell us about that. 420 00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:44,583 If you get involved with the UFO investigation, 421 00:19:44,616 --> 00:19:47,219 it is, you hand that information over. 422 00:19:47,252 --> 00:19:48,987 I don't know where it goes. 423 00:19:49,021 --> 00:19:50,656 -So somebody somewhere... -Yeah. 424 00:19:50,689 --> 00:19:53,358 ...is collecting and tracking this information? 425 00:19:53,392 --> 00:19:55,994 I would say so. Yes. You have to. 426 00:19:56,995 --> 00:19:58,530 You cannot let that stuff go. 427 00:19:58,564 --> 00:20:01,533 -And they take it seriously? -Yep. Yeah. 428 00:20:01,567 --> 00:20:03,235 That information is collected, 429 00:20:03,268 --> 00:20:07,272 and wherever it goes into some secret something. 430 00:20:08,941 --> 00:20:13,078 So during the interview with the RCMP officer that was retired, 431 00:20:13,111 --> 00:20:14,880 yeah, it reminded me 432 00:20:14,913 --> 00:20:17,816 of a document that I saw several years ago. 433 00:20:17,849 --> 00:20:19,851 In March of 1960, 434 00:20:19,885 --> 00:20:22,487 the RCMP had a document 435 00:20:22,521 --> 00:20:24,856 that would have been classified as restricted, 436 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:28,026 that had to do with the Athabaskan Indians, 437 00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:33,332 seeing a UFO in the general area of where Ray Salmen disappeared. 438 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,137 And that document in essence, says that they saw something 439 00:20:39,171 --> 00:20:41,673 that we would consider today 440 00:20:41,707 --> 00:20:44,443 to be your standard cylindrical UFO. 441 00:20:47,346 --> 00:20:50,816 DANIELA: We were camping once at a place called Fire Lake, 442 00:20:50,849 --> 00:20:53,218 and we were just sitting around the campfire in the evening 443 00:20:53,251 --> 00:20:57,055 and there is a large lake, and on the other side there's a mountain. 444 00:20:57,089 --> 00:21:00,025 And there wasn't any logging going on at that mountain 445 00:21:00,058 --> 00:21:03,662 and we were sitting there and we could see a light across the lake. 446 00:21:03,695 --> 00:21:07,933 I said, "Oh, there must be logging going on there. It looks like there's a car." 447 00:21:07,966 --> 00:21:09,735 And Ray said, "That's not a car," and he goes, 448 00:21:09,768 --> 00:21:12,404 "I know for a fact there isn't any logging going there." 449 00:21:12,437 --> 00:21:14,306 He knows all the roads, all the back hills. 450 00:21:14,339 --> 00:21:15,841 He's hiked everywhere. 451 00:21:15,874 --> 00:21:18,210 But as we're looking at this light, 452 00:21:18,243 --> 00:21:19,811 it's traveling very quickly 453 00:21:19,845 --> 00:21:22,314 and doing 90 degree turns, very unusual. 454 00:21:22,347 --> 00:21:25,550 So a car in the mountains wouldn't have been traveling that way. 455 00:21:25,584 --> 00:21:27,085 And it wasn't just a flash. 456 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,054 We were sitting there watching this. 457 00:21:29,087 --> 00:21:32,991 And I remember sitting there for a good ten minutes 458 00:21:33,025 --> 00:21:35,527 watching this and almost enjoying this. 459 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,162 I thought, "This is fascinating." 460 00:21:37,195 --> 00:21:39,698 You ever seen anything strange in the skies out here? 461 00:21:41,333 --> 00:21:43,135 Well, I've been here a long time. 462 00:21:43,168 --> 00:21:46,204 When I had the cottage over there, I had some friends 463 00:21:46,238 --> 00:21:49,241 and he came up with his girlfriend. 464 00:21:49,274 --> 00:21:51,376 And they camped on the beach. 465 00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:54,346 I guess it was about 2:30 in the morning. 466 00:21:54,379 --> 00:21:55,981 They were in the tent, on the beach 467 00:21:56,014 --> 00:21:59,251 in the middle of the night, asleep. My friend said, 468 00:21:59,284 --> 00:22:02,054 "I was sleeping like that, and all of a sudden I knew there was a light. 469 00:22:02,087 --> 00:22:03,722 "It woke me up. 470 00:22:03,755 --> 00:22:07,759 "And the inside of the tent it was like daylight." 471 00:22:07,793 --> 00:22:10,996 He unzipped the door and looks outside, 472 00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:15,100 and it was like the 12 o'clock high noon, 473 00:22:15,133 --> 00:22:16,835 on the clearest day of the year, 474 00:22:16,868 --> 00:22:18,804 and he could see the beach and the water 475 00:22:18,837 --> 00:22:20,806 and all that for but he couldn't see past 476 00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:23,775 a certain area so it was lit up. 477 00:22:24,843 --> 00:22:28,180 And that clicked, you know? 478 00:22:28,213 --> 00:22:30,649 Hey, I believe what they told me 479 00:22:30,682 --> 00:22:32,851 because somebody else told me the same thing. 480 00:22:33,985 --> 00:22:37,022 As an investigator who has a very open mind, 481 00:22:38,123 --> 00:22:39,891 and absorbs all the details, 482 00:22:39,925 --> 00:22:43,729 no matter how outlandish and strange, 483 00:22:43,762 --> 00:22:46,531 I really have to put some parameters up sometimes 484 00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:49,634 about how far down the rabbit hole I'll go. 485 00:22:51,103 --> 00:22:55,173 Considering this I'd a good friend in the state of Washington 486 00:22:55,207 --> 00:22:58,176 that is really a UFO expert. 487 00:22:58,210 --> 00:22:59,711 And I wanna take it to him. 488 00:22:59,745 --> 00:23:01,279 My name is Peter Davenport. 489 00:23:01,313 --> 00:23:03,014 I'm, for the last 26 years 490 00:23:03,048 --> 00:23:06,785 I've been the director of the National UFO Reporting Center 491 00:23:06,818 --> 00:23:09,855 and that's what I do. I'm a UFO investigator. 492 00:23:09,888 --> 00:23:12,324 What is the difference between MUFON 493 00:23:12,357 --> 00:23:13,892 and what you do in your organization? 494 00:23:13,925 --> 00:23:15,694 Well, they're two separate organizations. 495 00:23:15,727 --> 00:23:17,996 MUFON is an older organization. 496 00:23:18,029 --> 00:23:21,266 And MUFON is more of an investigative body. 497 00:23:21,299 --> 00:23:23,902 It's a membership organization. 498 00:23:23,935 --> 00:23:26,271 The National UFO Reporting Center 499 00:23:26,304 --> 00:23:28,640 has one member, and that is I. 500 00:23:28,673 --> 00:23:31,076 Do you ever investigate any of the reports you get? 501 00:23:31,109 --> 00:23:32,544 Yeah, once in a while. 502 00:23:32,577 --> 00:23:34,713 I have investigated an elk abduction. 503 00:23:34,746 --> 00:23:38,517 I have investigated crop formations. 504 00:23:38,550 --> 00:23:41,086 Takes a lot of, a lot of resources 505 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:42,687 to investigate a case. 506 00:23:42,721 --> 00:23:44,556 DAVID: You brought up the elk case 507 00:23:44,589 --> 00:23:46,591 that you investigated in Washington? 508 00:23:46,625 --> 00:23:49,227 I was actually at a conference when the call came in. 509 00:23:49,261 --> 00:23:55,567 He told the story about 14 or 15 people I think it was, 510 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,203 who were out planting trees on a hillside, 511 00:23:58,236 --> 00:24:00,605 on big piece of property owned 512 00:24:00,639 --> 00:24:03,175 by a commercial logging company. 513 00:24:03,208 --> 00:24:07,345 They had seen an object approach from the East, 514 00:24:07,379 --> 00:24:10,282 and they stood there and watched it for a few seconds. 515 00:24:10,315 --> 00:24:13,952 He called the, the object to the attention of the workers, 516 00:24:13,985 --> 00:24:16,488 and they all looked up and saw it as well. 517 00:24:17,489 --> 00:24:20,826 And it flew towards a herd of elk, 518 00:24:20,859 --> 00:24:23,628 that these guys have been watching all morning long 519 00:24:23,662 --> 00:24:25,730 as they worked on a hillside. 520 00:24:25,764 --> 00:24:29,568 All the elk bolted to the northeast to heavy cover, 521 00:24:29,601 --> 00:24:31,736 except for one hapless elk. 522 00:24:32,237 --> 00:24:34,506 And the object 523 00:24:34,539 --> 00:24:36,775 lifted the elk off the ground, 524 00:24:36,808 --> 00:24:40,512 and it started moving slowly in the direction 525 00:24:40,545 --> 00:24:42,848 in which that herd of elk had gone 526 00:24:42,881 --> 00:24:46,685 and it came to a large tree, an evergreen tree 527 00:24:46,718 --> 00:24:49,754 and bumped into it, interestingly. 528 00:24:49,788 --> 00:24:52,691 And backed away from the tree. 529 00:24:52,724 --> 00:24:55,126 And then suddenly shot to the north 530 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,797 and went over the nearest ridge to the north. 531 00:24:59,631 --> 00:25:01,333 I called the individual back 532 00:25:01,366 --> 00:25:02,834 who had made the call to the hotline 533 00:25:02,868 --> 00:25:05,036 and who had left a message. 534 00:25:05,070 --> 00:25:08,006 And arranged to travel to the site. 535 00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:11,810 DAVID: Was the company that the property was on 536 00:25:11,843 --> 00:25:13,979 assisting in this research? 537 00:25:14,012 --> 00:25:18,316 They directed question to Peter Davenport. 538 00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:19,718 Let's put it that way. 539 00:25:19,751 --> 00:25:21,152 So were they interested? 540 00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:22,654 Definitely. 541 00:25:22,687 --> 00:25:25,190 What's general nationality of the workers? 542 00:25:25,223 --> 00:25:26,391 Hispanic. 543 00:25:26,424 --> 00:25:27,792 Would they speak English? 544 00:25:27,826 --> 00:25:32,430 No. Nobody really knew exactly what went on, 545 00:25:32,464 --> 00:25:36,234 until we got some good translation. 546 00:25:36,268 --> 00:25:38,904 That's when I decided we needed to get somebody 547 00:25:38,937 --> 00:25:41,940 that was one, in the UFO community 548 00:25:41,973 --> 00:25:43,808 and two, who could translate well, 549 00:25:43,842 --> 00:25:47,779 and that's when I contacted Ruben down in California, 550 00:25:47,812 --> 00:25:51,549 I had contacted uh, some of the workers 551 00:25:51,583 --> 00:25:54,619 and to arrange for us to meet 552 00:25:55,553 --> 00:25:58,023 and gain their trust too 553 00:25:58,056 --> 00:26:00,792 because these gentlemen were pretty shook up. 554 00:26:00,825 --> 00:26:04,796 I would say they were in their late 20s, early 30s. 555 00:26:05,764 --> 00:26:07,599 They were married, they have families. 556 00:26:07,632 --> 00:26:11,703 Yeah. They were responsible folks. 557 00:26:11,736 --> 00:26:14,406 The three witnesses saw this object 558 00:26:14,439 --> 00:26:18,410 slowly descending and it went toward the elk herd, 559 00:26:18,443 --> 00:26:20,478 which caused the elk to run, 560 00:26:20,512 --> 00:26:23,481 but he was able to see the object 561 00:26:23,515 --> 00:26:24,783 picking up the elk. 562 00:26:24,816 --> 00:26:26,851 It was not a big object at all. 563 00:26:26,885 --> 00:26:28,987 The witnesses emphasized 564 00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:32,691 how surprised they were at how small it was 565 00:26:32,724 --> 00:26:35,560 and still be able to lift an elk out of the forest. 566 00:26:35,593 --> 00:26:38,496 What they did was they looked at the elk, 567 00:26:38,530 --> 00:26:40,131 they looked at the craft and they said, 568 00:26:40,165 --> 00:26:42,467 "Well, okay, if the elk is this big, 569 00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:48,306 "the craft is gonna be somewhere between six and eight feet long. 570 00:26:48,340 --> 00:26:52,544 "About five feet wide with a little indentation in the back. 571 00:26:52,577 --> 00:26:54,212 "About 18 inches thick. 572 00:26:54,245 --> 00:26:58,783 "It had a red and a white stripe that weren't lights, 573 00:26:58,817 --> 00:27:03,088 "but the white stripe was like a bright enamel paint, 574 00:27:03,121 --> 00:27:05,957 "the red stripe was a duller color." 575 00:27:05,991 --> 00:27:07,826 So when the men in the group 576 00:27:07,859 --> 00:27:12,263 -saw this craft take the elk out of sight... -Yeah. 577 00:27:12,297 --> 00:27:13,999 ...what was the distance from where they were 578 00:27:14,032 --> 00:27:16,234 to where they finally saw it? 579 00:27:16,267 --> 00:27:20,872 I would say the trees where it ran into is quarter mile. 580 00:27:20,905 --> 00:27:23,708 But basically I think it became a small dot 581 00:27:23,742 --> 00:27:26,745 before it disappeared into the cloud cover. 582 00:27:27,579 --> 00:27:30,715 Down trip was silent, 583 00:27:30,749 --> 00:27:33,518 and as soon as it got over the elk, 584 00:27:33,551 --> 00:27:35,787 the elk was basically paralyzed. 585 00:27:35,820 --> 00:27:37,555 It looked like it was a statue. 586 00:27:37,589 --> 00:27:38,957 It was just stiff. 587 00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:41,059 DAVID: The distance of the elk from the craft 588 00:27:41,092 --> 00:27:43,361 -always stayed consistent? -Yes. 589 00:27:43,395 --> 00:27:47,399 How thick was the cable between the craft and the elk? 590 00:27:47,432 --> 00:27:48,733 There was no cable. 591 00:27:49,401 --> 00:27:52,771 There was nothing discernible 592 00:27:52,804 --> 00:27:55,206 that was holding the elk to the craft. 593 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,076 The movement was like, like a coin. 594 00:27:58,109 --> 00:28:00,445 Uh, it was a slow oscillation. 595 00:28:00,478 --> 00:28:06,584 It took about two-and-half seconds for it to complete a cycle, 596 00:28:06,618 --> 00:28:11,890 and it's as if, if you've ever spun a coin 597 00:28:11,923 --> 00:28:14,759 and when that coin is getting lower and lower, 598 00:28:14,793 --> 00:28:18,696 so it's almost flat and it goes around on its rim, 599 00:28:18,730 --> 00:28:20,498 that's the type of oscillation. 600 00:28:20,532 --> 00:28:23,301 What are the chances, Peter, that, that could have been 601 00:28:23,334 --> 00:28:25,470 some kind of test vehicle that our military has, 602 00:28:25,503 --> 00:28:27,806 and they were just trying out their technology? 603 00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:30,809 About as close to zero as you can get. 604 00:28:30,842 --> 00:28:33,912 -Could the craft have been a helicopter? -No. 605 00:28:33,945 --> 00:28:37,615 In your research as an investigator is that common? 606 00:28:37,649 --> 00:28:38,883 Yes, there are many times 607 00:28:38,917 --> 00:28:41,286 so in reports that we get 608 00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:43,021 uh, from witnesses. 609 00:28:43,054 --> 00:28:47,125 They'll say that they heard no noise at all. 610 00:28:47,158 --> 00:28:50,862 -Did you ever go out and try to find the elk? -We did. 611 00:28:50,895 --> 00:28:54,532 We found what we think may have been the elk. 612 00:28:54,566 --> 00:28:58,236 Uh, it was a dead creature by the time we got to it, 613 00:28:58,269 --> 00:29:01,673 but we did a cursory examination 614 00:29:01,706 --> 00:29:03,808 could find no bullet holes, 615 00:29:03,842 --> 00:29:05,543 no arrows sticking in it, 616 00:29:05,577 --> 00:29:07,579 no wounds. It had good teeth. 617 00:29:07,612 --> 00:29:08,980 It was well fed. 618 00:29:09,013 --> 00:29:12,951 We think it was a female, pregnant female elk. 619 00:29:12,984 --> 00:29:15,553 Describe the setting that you saw the elk in? 620 00:29:16,454 --> 00:29:17,989 It was beside a road, 621 00:29:18,022 --> 00:29:21,426 and it was in the valley, to the north of the valley, 622 00:29:21,459 --> 00:29:23,862 where these men were planting trees. 623 00:29:23,895 --> 00:29:25,797 It leads me to suspect, 624 00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:27,465 but I have no evidence 625 00:29:27,499 --> 00:29:33,638 that the craft flew over the ridge to the north 626 00:29:33,671 --> 00:29:35,240 of where these men were working, 627 00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:37,775 and may have dropped the elk 628 00:29:37,809 --> 00:29:39,277 or lifted off. 629 00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:41,279 DAVID: So how many days was it from the time 630 00:29:41,312 --> 00:29:44,449 that they saw the elk get pulled up by the craft 631 00:29:44,482 --> 00:29:47,418 until someone found that elk on the road? 632 00:29:47,452 --> 00:29:52,790 The elk was found before seven days had transpired. 633 00:29:52,824 --> 00:29:54,425 Does that case rank up there with you 634 00:29:54,459 --> 00:29:57,395 as far as strangeness and credibility? 635 00:29:58,930 --> 00:30:00,865 Yeah, it's a pretty strange case. 636 00:30:00,899 --> 00:30:04,269 Uh, it's not every day that witnesses see a UFO 637 00:30:04,302 --> 00:30:08,072 what we presume was a UFO, an alien spacecraft 638 00:30:08,106 --> 00:30:11,910 lift an animal off the ground and fly off with it. 639 00:30:11,943 --> 00:30:14,245 That's pretty unusual by any measure. 640 00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:16,214 Were any of them concerned that, 641 00:30:16,247 --> 00:30:18,483 "Hey, maybe one of these things could come over and take me"? 642 00:30:18,516 --> 00:30:20,552 Yeah. 643 00:30:20,585 --> 00:30:22,921 -Did they voice that concern? -Yes, they did. 644 00:30:22,954 --> 00:30:25,990 They... Some weren't quite sure if they wanted 645 00:30:26,024 --> 00:30:28,493 to go back to the woods and work again. 646 00:30:28,526 --> 00:30:32,997 Listening to his voice, and I could really see 647 00:30:34,165 --> 00:30:36,634 the actual event that's happening to him 648 00:30:36,668 --> 00:30:38,736 as he's describing it. 649 00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:40,071 And he was shook up about it. 650 00:30:40,638 --> 00:30:42,106 Was he emotional? 651 00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:44,876 From what I recall, he had a hard time sleeping 652 00:30:45,743 --> 00:30:48,813 for several days after he saw that. 653 00:30:48,846 --> 00:30:51,082 His words were whether... he thought, 654 00:30:51,115 --> 00:30:53,451 "Whether it was something prehistoric 655 00:30:53,484 --> 00:30:55,420 "or was something extraterrestrial." 656 00:30:55,453 --> 00:30:57,755 So when you heard that this elk was taken 657 00:30:57,789 --> 00:31:01,459 and you and you heard the witnesses, 658 00:31:01,492 --> 00:31:03,995 at the end of the investigation what was your belief, 659 00:31:04,028 --> 00:31:06,965 credible, incredible, borderline? 660 00:31:06,998 --> 00:31:09,367 It was credible. Everyone was credible. 661 00:31:12,437 --> 00:31:16,040 No one appeared to be wanting to... 662 00:31:16,908 --> 00:31:21,179 mmm, force a story about anything. 663 00:31:21,212 --> 00:31:23,081 It was just the opposite. 664 00:31:23,114 --> 00:31:26,918 They were reluctant, really upset them. 665 00:31:26,951 --> 00:31:29,954 They really didn't even wanna think about it. 666 00:31:29,988 --> 00:31:33,658 Did they give you any indication at all that this was fabrication? 667 00:31:33,691 --> 00:31:34,826 No, David. 668 00:31:34,859 --> 00:31:36,961 I would stake my reputation. 669 00:31:36,995 --> 00:31:38,930 No, they were telling the truth. 670 00:31:40,031 --> 00:31:41,899 DAVID: After the interview, I received a call 671 00:31:41,933 --> 00:31:44,636 from Robert Fairfax regarding the dead elk. 672 00:31:45,937 --> 00:31:48,706 -Hey, Robert. -Hi, Dave. 673 00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:52,410 I'm calling back because when we did the interview of... 674 00:31:52,443 --> 00:31:55,179 there's a couple of things I forgot to add. 675 00:31:55,213 --> 00:31:58,683 I did meet with a representative of the company. 676 00:31:58,716 --> 00:32:03,254 When Peter and I initially went down to find the elk, 677 00:32:03,288 --> 00:32:05,390 it had a chronic wasting disease, 678 00:32:05,423 --> 00:32:10,128 prion disease, that affects the brain 679 00:32:10,161 --> 00:32:16,701 and they had been finding quite a few elks, dead elks in the area. 680 00:32:18,002 --> 00:32:21,939 So in the 1980s, in the UK, 681 00:32:21,973 --> 00:32:25,343 there was something called, "mad cow disease". 682 00:32:25,376 --> 00:32:28,513 It's a prion disease, and it infected cows. 683 00:32:28,546 --> 00:32:33,384 In the UK, they initially said that these animals 684 00:32:33,418 --> 00:32:37,722 couldn't transmit the disease to people. 685 00:32:37,755 --> 00:32:39,223 And they said not to worry. 686 00:32:39,257 --> 00:32:41,926 But it ended up transferring to people 687 00:32:41,959 --> 00:32:43,861 and it killed hundreds. 688 00:32:43,895 --> 00:32:47,765 And the UK ended up slaughtering over four-million cattle 689 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:51,336 because of this prion disease that we know as mad cow. 690 00:32:51,369 --> 00:32:54,639 In the U.S. there's something that's come about, 691 00:32:54,672 --> 00:32:57,308 where chronic wasting disease 692 00:32:57,342 --> 00:33:02,313 is now infecting deer, moose, elk, cervids, 693 00:33:02,347 --> 00:33:06,284 and this disease has spread across the U.S. 694 00:33:06,317 --> 00:33:10,621 and it centered on Colorado and Wyoming. 695 00:33:10,655 --> 00:33:15,727 This disease is fatal 100% of the time to all cervids. 696 00:33:19,263 --> 00:33:22,500 The state governments of each of the 50 states 697 00:33:22,533 --> 00:33:27,705 have told hunters to get their animals tested 698 00:33:27,739 --> 00:33:30,541 and not to eat the meat of an infected animal. 699 00:33:30,575 --> 00:33:34,612 And they've never stated yet that this can transfer to human. 700 00:33:34,645 --> 00:33:38,983 But it's consistent in that it says, "Don't eat the animal." 701 00:33:39,016 --> 00:33:45,390 Chronic wasting disease, seems to be something that is out of control. 702 00:33:45,423 --> 00:33:49,293 State and federal governments don't have an answer on how to control it. 703 00:33:49,327 --> 00:33:51,262 And right now it seems as though 704 00:33:51,295 --> 00:33:53,398 there's some type of monitoring 705 00:33:53,431 --> 00:33:59,670 going on across the U.S. of these infected animals. 706 00:34:00,538 --> 00:34:02,807 DAVID: In Washington, Peter Davenport 707 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,412 identified one case and attributed it to CWD. 708 00:34:07,445 --> 00:34:10,848 Now he identified a case in the state of Idaho, 709 00:34:10,882 --> 00:34:14,485 involving hunters, that is equally as unusual. 710 00:34:16,154 --> 00:34:17,588 Hi, I'm Chris Bales, 711 00:34:17,622 --> 00:34:22,260 and I have a little incident that I ran into 712 00:34:22,293 --> 00:34:25,430 on September 27th, the year 2000. 713 00:34:25,463 --> 00:34:29,033 Um, something that most people 714 00:34:29,066 --> 00:34:32,370 would never ever see or believe. 715 00:34:33,404 --> 00:34:37,041 We were in the middle of Idaho, 716 00:34:37,074 --> 00:34:39,944 out in a pretty remote area. 717 00:34:39,977 --> 00:34:41,245 DAVID: Who were you with? 718 00:34:41,279 --> 00:34:44,282 Um, I was with my brother Mark, 719 00:34:44,315 --> 00:34:46,517 and a friend of ours, 720 00:34:46,551 --> 00:34:52,423 through construction, Rob and then his dad was with us. 721 00:34:52,457 --> 00:34:54,959 DAVID: Describe the spot where you were camping? 722 00:34:54,992 --> 00:34:56,561 Hard to get down in, and then when you 723 00:34:56,594 --> 00:34:58,496 get down in, it was pretty tight. 724 00:34:58,529 --> 00:35:03,334 Um, steep canyon and tall timber. 725 00:35:03,367 --> 00:35:06,504 And it was kind of a dark, dark hole down in there. 726 00:35:06,537 --> 00:35:08,206 DAVID: And had you been to the spot before? 727 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,541 We had. We've been there for several years. 728 00:35:10,575 --> 00:35:13,144 -So you knew it well? -We knew it well, yeah. 729 00:35:13,177 --> 00:35:15,046 CHRIS: We had some mules 730 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:21,319 to hopefully, usually pack an animal out that we harvested. 731 00:35:21,352 --> 00:35:23,754 Described the day 732 00:35:23,788 --> 00:35:26,457 and how it started on this specific incident? 733 00:35:26,491 --> 00:35:29,227 We would start early, I mean, like four in the morning. 734 00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:31,596 Drive to a spot and then hike for 735 00:35:31,629 --> 00:35:33,931 maybe an hour or two in the dark. 736 00:35:33,965 --> 00:35:36,467 CHRIS BALE: Work our way around, spotted elk, 737 00:35:36,501 --> 00:35:40,438 trying to follow the elk and look at some high lakes 738 00:35:40,471 --> 00:35:42,807 that we'd never seen before and never got up in there. 739 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,944 We'd try and get back to the vehicles just before dark. 740 00:35:46,978 --> 00:35:49,247 On this day, you guys come back, 741 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,849 you fix some dinner, explain what happened then? 742 00:35:51,883 --> 00:35:53,618 I had finished my supper 743 00:35:54,318 --> 00:35:56,821 and went out to take a whiz 744 00:35:56,854 --> 00:36:01,092 and was starting back to the trailer, 745 00:36:01,125 --> 00:36:03,294 and Chris came out. 746 00:36:03,327 --> 00:36:07,798 I was, I don't know, maybe 15-feet from the trailer. 747 00:36:07,832 --> 00:36:11,969 And when I stepped down, obviously your head goes up. 748 00:36:12,003 --> 00:36:17,275 The light went across, hit on something that's right there, 749 00:36:17,308 --> 00:36:20,545 and instant, instantly 750 00:36:20,578 --> 00:36:23,814 that it was something that I didn't comprehend, 751 00:36:23,848 --> 00:36:25,016 whatsoever. 752 00:36:25,049 --> 00:36:27,318 When I saw that, 753 00:36:27,351 --> 00:36:30,054 that's when I, you know, went down on my knees. 754 00:36:30,087 --> 00:36:34,325 I just kind of turned to my right, went down on my knees. 755 00:36:34,358 --> 00:36:39,063 Chris looks up and just goes Holy-- 756 00:36:39,096 --> 00:36:41,365 Shit. Holy shit! Holy shit! 757 00:36:41,399 --> 00:36:43,267 You guys have got to see this. 758 00:36:43,301 --> 00:36:46,571 I look up and I see what he's looking at. 759 00:36:46,604 --> 00:36:50,241 CHRIS: And I mean, I was quivering. I yelled. 760 00:36:50,274 --> 00:36:53,077 I was yelling basically at the top of my voice. 761 00:36:53,110 --> 00:36:57,915 Mark came out of the trailer, and he said that, you know, 762 00:36:57,949 --> 00:37:02,153 he heard my voice and he'd never heard me sound that way before. 763 00:37:02,186 --> 00:37:06,757 He runs out and I just point up, up above. 764 00:37:06,791 --> 00:37:11,629 It was huge. It was like a football field. 765 00:37:11,662 --> 00:37:16,233 Hundred feet, direction, direction, triangular shape. 766 00:37:16,267 --> 00:37:22,673 So how far was the bottom of that craft from you in your estimate? 767 00:37:22,707 --> 00:37:29,146 I would say 80-feet plus or minus somewhere near above us. 768 00:37:29,180 --> 00:37:30,948 Rivets? Canals? 769 00:37:30,982 --> 00:37:33,417 No, that was, that was one of the things that, 770 00:37:33,451 --> 00:37:36,087 I am in construction, I like detail. 771 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,590 Um, I was looking at that and that the detail just... 772 00:37:39,624 --> 00:37:45,429 I couldn't believe, you know, there's, there's no seams, no rivets, no joints. 773 00:37:45,463 --> 00:37:49,667 It's all just one perfect surface in that. 774 00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:53,437 You could just tell it was perfect in every way. 775 00:37:53,471 --> 00:37:57,908 The thing that got me the most was how close it was... 776 00:37:59,410 --> 00:38:01,045 and no noise. 777 00:38:01,078 --> 00:38:02,213 Nothing. 778 00:38:02,246 --> 00:38:06,517 No prop voice. No... breeze. 779 00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:11,956 No exhaust, nothing you could smell. 780 00:38:13,257 --> 00:38:15,259 Zero. 781 00:38:15,292 --> 00:38:17,595 And it was a calm night. No wind. 782 00:38:17,628 --> 00:38:19,530 By that time, it's starting to move up 783 00:38:19,563 --> 00:38:23,567 and Mark and Rob both grabbed their binoculars 784 00:38:23,601 --> 00:38:26,504 and we just watched it just float... 785 00:38:26,537 --> 00:38:31,475 up the draw, just slowly, no noise. 786 00:38:31,509 --> 00:38:34,412 Um, animals didn't make noise. 787 00:38:34,445 --> 00:38:37,748 Those mules never made a sound, 788 00:38:37,782 --> 00:38:40,785 and they never made any motion. 789 00:38:40,818 --> 00:38:43,454 I mean, they, like, nothing was going on. 790 00:38:43,487 --> 00:38:47,058 We weren't making any noise, just kind of in awe 791 00:38:47,091 --> 00:38:49,960 of what's going on and not knowing what it is. 792 00:38:49,994 --> 00:38:52,129 I'm thinking, "Man, that's sure no airplane." 793 00:38:53,497 --> 00:38:56,367 We actually took pieces of paper 794 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,037 and drew up our own pictures 795 00:39:00,071 --> 00:39:03,007 and wrote down information. 796 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,912 So, Chris, I came across this. Did you draw that? 797 00:39:07,945 --> 00:39:09,080 I did draw this. 798 00:39:09,113 --> 00:39:10,481 Is that what it looked like? 799 00:39:10,514 --> 00:39:13,651 That's as similar as what I could come up with. 800 00:39:13,684 --> 00:39:15,953 What were the black dots outside the craft? 801 00:39:15,986 --> 00:39:18,322 Don't know. I just remember seeing them. 802 00:39:18,355 --> 00:39:22,159 Um, didn't seem like there was anything, um... 803 00:39:22,193 --> 00:39:29,366 And was the red dot painted or did it glow like the white? 804 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,836 It glowed like the white disc. 805 00:39:31,869 --> 00:39:34,605 Did the white lights also protrude from the bottom? 806 00:39:34,638 --> 00:39:37,842 Uh, it looked like maybe they were semi-domed. 807 00:39:37,875 --> 00:39:43,447 But it was not really pronounced like the drawing. 808 00:39:43,481 --> 00:39:49,386 You know, you draw that, it was more of white fog, 809 00:39:49,420 --> 00:39:52,556 um, circle, not really unique, 810 00:39:52,590 --> 00:39:55,793 sharp edges or fine detail. 811 00:39:56,961 --> 00:39:59,096 DAVID: Could it have been watching Rob? 812 00:39:59,130 --> 00:40:01,298 Could he have been a target for abduction 813 00:40:01,332 --> 00:40:03,234 and Chris coming out of the trailer, 814 00:40:03,267 --> 00:40:05,202 thwarted that abduction? 815 00:40:05,236 --> 00:40:08,472 Triangular craft like this have been seen around the world, 816 00:40:08,506 --> 00:40:12,676 including, most recently by our own U.S. Military pilots. 817 00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:14,979 That night, did you stay in camp? 818 00:40:15,813 --> 00:40:16,947 Tried to, 819 00:40:16,981 --> 00:40:19,984 but just couldn't bring myself to do it. 820 00:40:20,017 --> 00:40:22,920 Did you get to know anybody else who lived in that general area 821 00:40:22,953 --> 00:40:24,822 and asked them if they'd seen something like this? 822 00:40:24,855 --> 00:40:28,225 There was people that we knew that were in the area. 823 00:40:28,259 --> 00:40:31,095 So Mark kind of hedged on, 824 00:40:31,128 --> 00:40:36,500 "Have you guys ever seen anything kind of different, 825 00:40:36,534 --> 00:40:40,371 "you know, at some point or anything like that out in the valley?" 826 00:40:40,404 --> 00:40:44,241 And so little conversation about it. 827 00:40:44,275 --> 00:40:46,710 I just, we were standing, you know, on the dirt road 828 00:40:46,744 --> 00:40:51,415 and I put the toe of my boot down and said, "Well, did you see something like this?" 829 00:40:51,448 --> 00:40:52,950 And started to draw 830 00:40:52,983 --> 00:40:56,287 a triangle with my boot in the dirt 831 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,090 and I drew a straight line and the guy standing next to me 832 00:41:00,124 --> 00:41:02,660 took his foot and pushed my foot away 833 00:41:02,693 --> 00:41:06,197 and he finished my drawing for me on that. 834 00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:09,733 And that was, there was nothing said or anything 835 00:41:09,767 --> 00:41:12,269 but that he finished my drawing. 836 00:41:12,303 --> 00:41:14,705 DAVID: Is that some sort of validation for you? 837 00:41:14,738 --> 00:41:16,841 Um, well, it made me feel like, 838 00:41:16,874 --> 00:41:21,478 "Yeah, okay. Other people have noticed this." 839 00:41:21,512 --> 00:41:26,550 And so yeah, I guess it's a validation. 840 00:41:27,451 --> 00:41:28,886 So it did affect you? 841 00:41:29,653 --> 00:41:30,921 Oh, it did. 842 00:41:32,957 --> 00:41:35,826 I guess, I'm vacillating maybe. 843 00:41:35,860 --> 00:41:40,898 Since that night in 2000, anywhere that you've been out, 844 00:41:40,931 --> 00:41:45,069 -have you seen other unidentified things in the sky? -No. 845 00:41:45,102 --> 00:41:46,237 How about Mark and Rob? 846 00:41:46,270 --> 00:41:47,805 No, the same thing, you know, 847 00:41:47,838 --> 00:41:51,675 never really seen anything that even... 848 00:41:52,409 --> 00:41:54,712 would have guessed at it. 849 00:41:54,745 --> 00:41:57,815 So, Rob, there's gonna be people that watch this, 850 00:41:57,848 --> 00:41:59,984 and they're gonna say, "I don't believe it," 851 00:42:00,017 --> 00:42:02,052 you know, "It didn't happen," and all that, 852 00:42:02,086 --> 00:42:04,388 -these guys-- -And I would be one of them. 853 00:42:04,421 --> 00:42:06,991 -You'd be one of them? -[LAUGHS] Yeah. 854 00:42:07,024 --> 00:42:09,193 So if you saw this story, you wouldn't believe these guys? 855 00:42:10,227 --> 00:42:12,863 Well, I'm skeptical. 856 00:42:14,064 --> 00:42:15,566 But I saw it. 857 00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,502 And how many times have you gone back to that same site since? 858 00:42:18,535 --> 00:42:20,371 -The exact site? -Yeah. 859 00:42:20,404 --> 00:42:21,705 Never. 860 00:42:25,242 --> 00:42:29,046 When we talk about the triangle UFO sighting by the hunters, 861 00:42:30,714 --> 00:42:37,521 I didn't realize at the time but its location on a map 862 00:42:37,554 --> 00:42:42,192 coincides with the first documentary I did 863 00:42:42,226 --> 00:42:47,197 called Missing 411 that involved the disappearance of DeOrr Kunz. 864 00:42:47,231 --> 00:42:51,802 When I look at the map... directly east, 865 00:42:53,003 --> 00:42:55,673 of the sighting of the triangle by the hunters, 866 00:42:57,007 --> 00:43:00,244 is the exact location that DeOrr disappeared. 867 00:43:01,845 --> 00:43:04,949 Now when you think about the vastness of the wilderness, 868 00:43:04,982 --> 00:43:07,851 what are the chances that these two incidents 869 00:43:07,885 --> 00:43:10,788 happened in such a close proximity to one another? 870 00:43:12,756 --> 00:43:15,793 But also looking at the map and my case files, 871 00:43:16,660 --> 00:43:18,028 it also coincides 872 00:43:18,062 --> 00:43:21,332 with the disappearance of Ray Jones. 873 00:43:21,365 --> 00:43:27,805 Now Ray was a 39-year-old service station owner in Salmon, 874 00:43:27,838 --> 00:43:30,741 who disappeared 53 years ago 875 00:43:30,774 --> 00:43:35,079 on a hunting expedition with friends. 876 00:43:35,112 --> 00:43:38,115 They separated, Ray disappeared, 877 00:43:39,183 --> 00:43:42,820 and for 53 years he wasn't found. 878 00:43:44,488 --> 00:43:47,391 Now a group of hunters 879 00:43:47,424 --> 00:43:53,197 that saw this, the triangular UFO, their dad actually knew Ray. 880 00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:56,967 And so every time they went out, and hunted this area, 881 00:43:57,001 --> 00:44:00,037 they said that they were looking for Ray as well. 882 00:44:00,070 --> 00:44:04,174 He wasn't found and then he's found this year 883 00:44:04,208 --> 00:44:06,343 at the bottom of a boulder field 884 00:44:06,377 --> 00:44:08,846 in an area that had been previously searched 885 00:44:08,879 --> 00:44:10,347 dozens of times. 886 00:44:11,448 --> 00:44:12,883 Suddenly he's found there. 887 00:44:14,551 --> 00:44:17,287 And when you map these three incidents, 888 00:44:18,822 --> 00:44:22,393 you have a very neat triangle. 889 00:44:24,028 --> 00:44:31,502 Which, weirdly, coincides with the shape of the triangle 890 00:44:31,535 --> 00:44:33,771 that was drawn by the hunters. 891 00:44:45,816 --> 00:44:48,452 Are there any new major developments in the case? 892 00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:54,091 Not really. 893 00:44:54,124 --> 00:44:56,427 -Has DeOrr been found? -No. 894 00:44:57,728 --> 00:44:59,363 Are there any named suspects? 895 00:45:01,198 --> 00:45:03,067 Not at this time. 896 00:45:04,768 --> 00:45:07,071 When an investigation starts to push the limits 897 00:45:07,104 --> 00:45:09,673 of standard everyday police protocol, 898 00:45:09,706 --> 00:45:11,241 I start to look for professionals 899 00:45:11,275 --> 00:45:13,143 on the outside that could assist me. 900 00:45:13,811 --> 00:45:15,913 I'm someone who's not 901 00:45:15,946 --> 00:45:18,415 so stubborn as to admit what I don't know. 902 00:45:18,882 --> 00:45:20,551 And at this point, 903 00:45:20,584 --> 00:45:22,219 I looked for professional help 904 00:45:22,252 --> 00:45:26,490 in the name of retired FBI agent John DeSouza. 905 00:45:26,523 --> 00:45:27,958 My name is John DeSouza. 906 00:45:27,991 --> 00:45:31,295 I was an FBI special agent for 25 years. 907 00:45:31,328 --> 00:45:35,132 I've worked all types of cases counterterrorism, 908 00:45:35,165 --> 00:45:38,068 uh, violent crimes, paranormal cases as well. 909 00:45:38,102 --> 00:45:40,771 And I am pretty well known for that sort of thing. 910 00:45:40,804 --> 00:45:42,306 Now, your background to me is interesting 911 00:45:42,339 --> 00:45:46,510 because you've worked a variety of criminal cases. 912 00:45:46,543 --> 00:45:48,479 I worked on the Unabomber case. 913 00:45:48,512 --> 00:45:53,383 I worked on 1994 World Trade Center bombing. 914 00:45:53,417 --> 00:45:55,252 DAVID: The biggest case you ever worked? 915 00:45:55,285 --> 00:45:56,954 JOHN: It would have to be 9/11. 916 00:45:56,987 --> 00:45:58,722 John, how many times have you testified 917 00:45:58,755 --> 00:46:01,992 in front of the in front of a U.S. Court for a U.S. attorney? 918 00:46:02,025 --> 00:46:04,228 Maybe like 100 times. 919 00:46:04,261 --> 00:46:05,896 And how many times has the court decided 920 00:46:05,929 --> 00:46:07,631 that you're an expert in a certain area? 921 00:46:07,664 --> 00:46:09,333 Probably every time I've testified. 922 00:46:09,366 --> 00:46:11,001 I can't think of anybody 923 00:46:11,034 --> 00:46:14,705 who's in a position more to tell the truth, 924 00:46:14,738 --> 00:46:18,075 and with great things to risk than you. 925 00:46:18,108 --> 00:46:19,676 No. No. 926 00:46:19,710 --> 00:46:22,079 I've had agents in the past say, 927 00:46:22,112 --> 00:46:25,349 "Well, Dave, if there is a series of events 928 00:46:26,049 --> 00:46:28,485 "that all kind of line up... 929 00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:32,589 "similar to what you have written about," meaning me, 930 00:46:32,623 --> 00:46:37,728 "then those agents could be forwarding those reports to a profiling unit, 931 00:46:37,761 --> 00:46:41,198 "and they're putting the pieces together to see if there's connections." 932 00:46:41,231 --> 00:46:43,066 Exactly. Yeah, it's true, too. 933 00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:45,969 So who would be directing those agents? 934 00:46:46,003 --> 00:46:52,776 That could be Washington, it could be profiler unit of Behavioral Sciences Unit. 935 00:46:52,809 --> 00:46:58,348 Are there subject matter experts on UFOs, aliens, abductions? 936 00:46:58,382 --> 00:47:02,686 Well, that's what I was while I was during the, in the FBI. 937 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,022 And what was your conclusion in general 938 00:47:05,055 --> 00:47:07,624 about these people that claim abductions 939 00:47:07,658 --> 00:47:09,326 and disappear and come back? 940 00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:12,329 We report on the ones that we talk about, 941 00:47:12,362 --> 00:47:14,431 um, those are real. 942 00:47:14,464 --> 00:47:19,336 And I do believe that they are connected 943 00:47:19,369 --> 00:47:25,209 to extra dimensional beings, beings that come from outside of our reality. 944 00:47:25,242 --> 00:47:27,377 In many, many of my stories... 945 00:47:28,145 --> 00:47:31,181 uh, families in the woods... 946 00:47:31,215 --> 00:47:32,916 children are right next to them... 947 00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:35,385 Everything's fine. 948 00:47:35,419 --> 00:47:39,056 They turn around one second and the kid's gone. 949 00:47:39,089 --> 00:47:40,724 They're not anywhere to be found, 950 00:47:40,757 --> 00:47:42,226 and the statement from the parents 951 00:47:42,259 --> 00:47:44,328 is, "They were right there, 952 00:47:44,361 --> 00:47:46,430 "and then the next second, they're gone." 953 00:47:46,463 --> 00:47:48,131 Now, if that is true, 954 00:47:48,165 --> 00:47:50,500 that really does answer a conundrum about 955 00:47:50,534 --> 00:47:53,870 -how they can disappear and nobody can realize it? -Right. 956 00:47:53,904 --> 00:47:58,375 Time period is so short that their disappearance 957 00:47:58,408 --> 00:48:02,813 is not possible in a purely physical world. 958 00:48:02,846 --> 00:48:06,316 So when you investigated something like this, 959 00:48:06,350 --> 00:48:08,151 were you ever questioned later on 960 00:48:08,185 --> 00:48:10,921 by other departments or other agencies? 961 00:48:13,757 --> 00:48:15,892 No, not by other agencies, no. 962 00:48:15,926 --> 00:48:17,961 Departments? 963 00:48:17,995 --> 00:48:21,498 No. They don't want to know this sort of thing 964 00:48:21,531 --> 00:48:26,536 as much as... as much as they can avoid the knowledge of this. No. 965 00:48:26,570 --> 00:48:27,804 Long time ago, 966 00:48:27,838 --> 00:48:29,873 this is back when I was a policeman, 967 00:48:29,906 --> 00:48:31,541 and there were some FBI guys 968 00:48:31,575 --> 00:48:34,144 that were working a case on something else. 969 00:48:34,177 --> 00:48:35,746 We were talking about, 970 00:48:35,779 --> 00:48:38,348 I don't even think it was anything spooky or paranormal, 971 00:48:38,382 --> 00:48:42,052 but it was something unrelated and the agent said, 972 00:48:42,085 --> 00:48:46,857 "Dave, our government will never acknowledge what they can't control." 973 00:48:46,890 --> 00:48:49,059 And I always remembered that statement. 974 00:48:49,092 --> 00:48:52,095 -Do you believe that? -Yeah, that's absolutely true. 975 00:48:52,129 --> 00:48:55,365 They can't acknowledge it if they can't control it, 976 00:48:55,399 --> 00:48:59,136 or even if they think they can't control it. 977 00:49:01,505 --> 00:49:03,674 Wow. What can I say? 978 00:49:03,707 --> 00:49:09,980 John DeSouza fits your typical model of an FBI agent, 979 00:49:10,013 --> 00:49:11,381 and I've dealt with several 980 00:49:11,415 --> 00:49:13,483 during my years in law enforcement. 981 00:49:13,517 --> 00:49:17,254 Ultra-credible, tons of experience, 982 00:49:17,287 --> 00:49:20,457 a stand-up guy who is speaking the truth. 983 00:49:21,391 --> 00:49:24,728 And during my time sitting in his office, 984 00:49:25,929 --> 00:49:30,233 you probably couldn't tell, but I was in stunned silence 985 00:49:30,267 --> 00:49:35,272 just listening to how he laid out the groundwork 986 00:49:35,305 --> 00:49:38,241 for so many issues related to our work. 987 00:49:38,275 --> 00:49:42,379 And he brought instant credibility 988 00:49:42,412 --> 00:49:44,014 to an arena 989 00:49:44,047 --> 00:49:46,450 where a lot of people don't even wanna address. 990 00:49:47,584 --> 00:49:49,519 John's statement 991 00:49:49,553 --> 00:49:56,993 about parallel dimensions, his overview of missing people 992 00:49:57,027 --> 00:49:59,062 and his statement about our work, 993 00:50:00,030 --> 00:50:04,101 all fell right in line with the 1,500 people 994 00:50:04,134 --> 00:50:06,670 I've documented in the last 12 years. 995 00:50:07,871 --> 00:50:10,173 But that brings up a one of the cases 996 00:50:10,207 --> 00:50:13,543 that has continually sat in the back of my mind. 997 00:50:13,577 --> 00:50:15,312 That's the incident of the disappearance 998 00:50:15,345 --> 00:50:17,447 of Reinhard Kirchner in Arizona. 999 00:50:19,182 --> 00:50:20,517 So this is the spot. 1000 00:50:20,550 --> 00:50:22,486 In April 2007, 1001 00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:25,522 Reinhard Kirchner made his way from Germany. 1002 00:50:26,156 --> 00:50:28,225 He was a physicist. 1003 00:50:28,258 --> 00:50:30,694 He drove his rented camper truck here, 1004 00:50:30,727 --> 00:50:34,431 parked it and started to hike. 1005 00:50:34,464 --> 00:50:37,634 He'd been here before, and he liked it. 1006 00:50:37,667 --> 00:50:41,605 Reinhard didn't make his meeting with his girlfriend 1007 00:50:41,638 --> 00:50:46,009 at Las Vegas McCarran Airport, she called search and rescue. 1008 00:50:46,042 --> 00:50:51,314 Eventually found his truck parked here on Navajo property. 1009 00:50:51,348 --> 00:50:55,619 Started to search several days. They found nothing. 1010 00:50:55,652 --> 00:50:59,823 They know that he took his camera and took a small backpack 1011 00:50:59,856 --> 00:51:01,358 and he walked into oblivion. 1012 00:51:02,993 --> 00:51:04,594 Interesting part of the case was 1013 00:51:04,628 --> 00:51:07,464 while the Sheriff was at his truck, 1014 00:51:08,298 --> 00:51:10,000 there were some local ranchers 1015 00:51:10,033 --> 00:51:11,401 that walked up and talked to him, 1016 00:51:11,435 --> 00:51:13,270 and these people said that 1017 00:51:13,303 --> 00:51:14,905 during the time Reinhard was gone, 1018 00:51:14,938 --> 00:51:19,843 they had seen unusual lights in the sky here. 1019 00:51:19,876 --> 00:51:23,647 And what is important about that to me as a law enforcement person, 1020 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,617 is that they put that in the report as credible. 1021 00:51:27,651 --> 00:51:30,153 His girlfriend eventually flew home to Germany. 1022 00:51:30,187 --> 00:51:34,391 It's been over a decade, Reinhard and his property has never been found. 1023 00:51:34,424 --> 00:51:36,927 What compelled Reinhard to this location? 1024 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,228 The case remains open, 1025 00:51:38,261 --> 00:51:40,964 and we may never find the answers. 1026 00:51:40,997 --> 00:51:44,067 There is one particular case where credibility and evidence merge 1027 00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:48,238 in one of the most bizarre cases I've ever investigated. 1028 00:51:48,271 --> 00:51:50,073 One where the hunter reappeared with a story 1029 00:51:50,106 --> 00:51:52,409 that tested the limits of believability 1030 00:51:52,442 --> 00:51:54,544 yet captured my imagination 1031 00:51:54,578 --> 00:51:57,280 and strangely physical evidence. 1032 00:51:58,915 --> 00:52:00,450 My name is Carl Higdon. 1033 00:52:01,718 --> 00:52:05,255 And this is to talk about an incident 1034 00:52:05,288 --> 00:52:08,725 that happened in 1974. 1035 00:52:10,827 --> 00:52:12,395 I told my wife that, 1036 00:52:12,429 --> 00:52:14,931 I'm gonna go south and go hunting. 1037 00:52:14,965 --> 00:52:18,101 DAVID: What percentage of the time that he went out hunting 1038 00:52:18,134 --> 00:52:19,703 did you go with him? 1039 00:52:19,736 --> 00:52:21,204 MARJORIE: Always. 1040 00:52:21,238 --> 00:52:23,673 -Except this time? -Yes. 1041 00:52:23,707 --> 00:52:27,744 Carl and I are together, mostly 24/7. 1042 00:52:27,777 --> 00:52:30,547 So on October 25th, '74... 1043 00:52:30,580 --> 00:52:33,283 He went, he went out by himself completely. 1044 00:52:33,316 --> 00:52:35,185 DAVID: And was that a rare occasion? 1045 00:52:35,218 --> 00:52:36,586 MARJORIE: Yes, very rare. 1046 00:52:37,487 --> 00:52:40,624 So that area where this happened, 1047 00:52:40,657 --> 00:52:42,626 had you ever been there before? 1048 00:52:43,159 --> 00:52:44,561 No. 1049 00:52:44,594 --> 00:52:46,696 Describe the best you can where this happened at, 1050 00:52:46,730 --> 00:52:51,234 -which forest were you in? -Medicine Bow National Forest. 1051 00:52:52,068 --> 00:52:55,438 The area that this happened in, 1052 00:52:55,472 --> 00:52:58,842 was back to the north, right at the edge of the forest. 1053 00:53:00,577 --> 00:53:04,614 So I got inside the national forest. 1054 00:53:04,648 --> 00:53:08,752 I walked down maybe three-quarter of a mile. 1055 00:53:09,886 --> 00:53:11,588 I had seen five elk. 1056 00:53:12,822 --> 00:53:14,224 They didn't move. 1057 00:53:14,991 --> 00:53:16,793 There was another strange thing. 1058 00:53:16,826 --> 00:53:18,428 They what? Say that again? 1059 00:53:18,461 --> 00:53:19,663 They didn't move. 1060 00:53:20,430 --> 00:53:21,865 They just sat there. 1061 00:53:22,966 --> 00:53:28,438 Carl entered the woods, lined up on a series of elk. 1062 00:53:28,471 --> 00:53:31,207 He even said that the elk weren't moving, 1063 00:53:31,241 --> 00:53:34,010 leveled his rifle at the animals, 1064 00:53:34,044 --> 00:53:35,111 pulled the trigger. 1065 00:53:35,145 --> 00:53:36,913 He says his gun went off. 1066 00:53:38,281 --> 00:53:41,251 The bullet came out the end of the barrel 1067 00:53:41,284 --> 00:53:44,688 and hit some type of invisible force field 1068 00:53:45,355 --> 00:53:46,790 and dropped to the ground. 1069 00:53:48,124 --> 00:53:49,960 That bullet was recovered by Carl 1070 00:53:49,993 --> 00:53:53,530 and later analyzed, and it did hit something, 1071 00:53:54,197 --> 00:53:56,600 what, we don't know. 1072 00:53:56,633 --> 00:54:01,571 But the unusual nature of the travel of that ammunition 1073 00:54:01,605 --> 00:54:05,275 is so odd that I've never heard of it 1074 00:54:05,308 --> 00:54:07,777 in any type of research before. 1075 00:54:07,811 --> 00:54:10,513 You're standing there. You shot the rifle. 1076 00:54:10,547 --> 00:54:14,084 You're turning and you see the craft. 1077 00:54:14,117 --> 00:54:17,420 Give me as much detail as you can on that craft, Carl. 1078 00:54:18,855 --> 00:54:22,559 Well, it was like looking at a piece of glass. 1079 00:54:24,527 --> 00:54:27,063 Only it had motors around it. 1080 00:54:28,898 --> 00:54:31,701 I couldn't figure out what it was to start with. 1081 00:54:31,735 --> 00:54:34,504 So when you're looking at the at the cube, 1082 00:54:34,537 --> 00:54:37,407 can you see through it and see forest behind it? 1083 00:54:37,641 --> 00:54:39,042 Yes. 1084 00:54:39,075 --> 00:54:41,378 Was there anything in the cube? 1085 00:54:41,411 --> 00:54:43,113 Not that I could see. 1086 00:54:43,146 --> 00:54:48,018 So it was just like a glass square on four sides, 1087 00:54:48,051 --> 00:54:51,788 seven foot-by-five foot with nothing inside it, 1088 00:54:51,821 --> 00:54:53,490 and you can kind of see through it. 1089 00:54:53,523 --> 00:54:54,858 CARL: Right. 1090 00:54:54,891 --> 00:54:57,193 What did you think when you first saw it? 1091 00:54:57,227 --> 00:54:59,796 [LAUGHS] I didn't know. 1092 00:54:59,829 --> 00:55:05,902 I just kinda stared at it because it was unusual. 1093 00:55:05,935 --> 00:55:12,375 Then this guy showed up and asked me if I was hungry. 1094 00:55:13,209 --> 00:55:15,078 Told him, "Yeah." 1095 00:55:15,111 --> 00:55:20,517 So this packet of four pills drifted over to me, 1096 00:55:20,550 --> 00:55:23,420 just like it was thrown at me. 1097 00:55:25,955 --> 00:55:28,124 I took one. 1098 00:55:28,158 --> 00:55:34,664 Next thing I know I was in this cubicle, but it looked a lot nearer. 1099 00:55:35,699 --> 00:55:37,701 There's five elk behind me. 1100 00:55:37,734 --> 00:55:39,703 I said, "You got my elk." 1101 00:55:41,204 --> 00:55:43,406 He just looked at me and shrugged. 1102 00:55:44,541 --> 00:55:46,643 Told me that his name was Ausso... 1103 00:55:48,745 --> 00:55:51,815 and they were down here to get food. 1104 00:55:53,583 --> 00:55:55,652 I said, "You guys always come down?" 1105 00:55:55,685 --> 00:55:59,489 He said, "Yeah. We come down every so often. 1106 00:55:59,522 --> 00:56:03,960 "We get elk, deer from here. 1107 00:56:03,993 --> 00:56:08,998 "And go the ocean and get fish and take it back." 1108 00:56:09,032 --> 00:56:12,502 MARJORIE: This is the drawing that Carl drew in the hospital. 1109 00:56:12,535 --> 00:56:15,905 And the, the being had a, like a hand, 1110 00:56:15,939 --> 00:56:19,409 that was a cone and no hand here, 1111 00:56:19,442 --> 00:56:21,144 and his hair was like straw. 1112 00:56:23,046 --> 00:56:25,648 -And-- -DAVID: So this is a very descriptive drawing. 1113 00:56:25,682 --> 00:56:27,951 What are these little things? 1114 00:56:27,984 --> 00:56:30,153 MARJORIE: Um, this is kind of an apron, 1115 00:56:30,186 --> 00:56:34,824 and it shows where the uh, kind of where the land is, 1116 00:56:34,858 --> 00:56:36,059 in his planet. 1117 00:56:36,092 --> 00:56:38,628 Did he-- Did Ausso seem to have a personality? 1118 00:56:40,864 --> 00:56:41,865 He seemed to. 1119 00:56:42,966 --> 00:56:44,067 Like... 1120 00:56:46,002 --> 00:56:49,672 When he talked to me, his lips never moved. 1121 00:56:49,706 --> 00:56:52,709 I mean, it was back and forth. 1122 00:56:55,011 --> 00:56:56,079 But... 1123 00:56:58,581 --> 00:57:00,383 He seemed like he knew a lot. 1124 00:57:00,416 --> 00:57:03,987 -What color was his suit? -Black. 1125 00:57:04,020 --> 00:57:05,221 DAVID: Black. 1126 00:57:05,255 --> 00:57:07,724 The entire suit was black? 1127 00:57:07,757 --> 00:57:12,262 MARJORIE: Completely black because our sun burns them. 1128 00:57:12,862 --> 00:57:14,564 So they have to wear black 1129 00:57:14,597 --> 00:57:19,002 and they wear like, uh, like a scuba diver's suit. 1130 00:57:19,035 --> 00:57:20,904 Covers them completely. 1131 00:57:20,937 --> 00:57:23,139 Did Carl ever say if he only had one hand 1132 00:57:23,173 --> 00:57:25,775 -and didn't draw the second? -Mm-hmm. Yes. 1133 00:57:25,809 --> 00:57:27,944 He did not have another hand here. 1134 00:57:27,977 --> 00:57:30,079 But he had like a cone over here. 1135 00:57:30,113 --> 00:57:33,483 Carl ever have an opinion if this was a male or a female? 1136 00:57:33,516 --> 00:57:37,220 -Uh, oh, he figures it was a male. -A male. 1137 00:57:37,253 --> 00:57:41,891 And then this is uh picture of the, um, the craft. 1138 00:57:42,692 --> 00:57:44,694 And this was the controls. 1139 00:57:44,727 --> 00:57:50,033 This is where Ausso sat and this is where Carl sat. 1140 00:57:50,066 --> 00:57:54,671 And there was still five elk in here also. 1141 00:57:54,704 --> 00:57:56,806 And when we lifted off... 1142 00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:02,145 and then I could see it looked like a ball... down below. 1143 00:58:03,379 --> 00:58:05,215 I figured it was the Earth. 1144 00:58:05,248 --> 00:58:06,516 I didn't know. 1145 00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:07,851 And he was taken to some place that could 1146 00:58:07,884 --> 00:58:09,686 best be described as another planet. 1147 00:58:09,719 --> 00:58:11,087 It took him behind a screen 1148 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,557 and eventually said, "We don't need you. 1149 00:58:14,591 --> 00:58:16,192 "You don't fit what we need." 1150 00:58:16,226 --> 00:58:18,862 The implication to Carl being is that he had a vasectomy 1151 00:58:18,895 --> 00:58:22,565 and they needed somebody that was 100-percent fertile. 1152 00:58:22,599 --> 00:58:26,369 CARL: I said, "What? I got to go home?" 1153 00:58:26,402 --> 00:58:29,906 And he said, "Don't worry. Somebody'll come get you," 1154 00:58:29,939 --> 00:58:36,045 and dropped me off and I hit side of this hill and rolled down it. 1155 00:58:36,646 --> 00:58:38,982 This is a critical point. 1156 00:58:39,015 --> 00:58:41,918 When Carl explained that he was dropped, 1157 00:58:41,951 --> 00:58:45,288 I have investigated hundreds of cases 1158 00:58:45,321 --> 00:58:47,290 with unusual circumstances 1159 00:58:47,323 --> 00:58:51,194 that show that someone was dropped into that location. 1160 00:58:51,227 --> 00:58:54,731 This isn't something that's normally talked about in investigations. 1161 00:58:54,764 --> 00:58:56,599 A lot of times it's just pushed off 1162 00:58:56,633 --> 00:58:58,801 as happenstance and an accident 1163 00:58:58,835 --> 00:59:01,304 that the person fell into the place. 1164 00:59:01,337 --> 00:59:04,908 There's much more to this and Carl has explained it. 1165 00:59:04,941 --> 00:59:09,012 It was after I got off work, I felt the need to go to him. 1166 00:59:09,045 --> 00:59:13,516 I felt that he needed me, that I had to go help him. 1167 00:59:13,549 --> 00:59:17,453 DAVID: So you get out there, you have the sheriff there 1168 00:59:17,487 --> 00:59:20,056 and everyone's looking. 1169 00:59:20,089 --> 00:59:23,259 You're sitting on the hill, and you eventually get told 1170 00:59:23,293 --> 00:59:25,028 -that they found Carl? -Mm-hmm. 1171 00:59:25,061 --> 00:59:27,830 The Deputy Sheriff got out of the pickup, 1172 00:59:28,564 --> 00:59:30,767 crouched down with his gun, 1173 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,169 ready to shoot Carl if he had to 1174 00:59:33,202 --> 00:59:37,106 because we did not know, what, what was going on? 1175 00:59:37,140 --> 00:59:40,610 So, so from visually looking at Carl then, 1176 00:59:42,011 --> 00:59:44,013 did he even seem like it was your husband? 1177 00:59:44,047 --> 00:59:47,850 Uh, he kept looking out through the windshield 1178 00:59:47,884 --> 00:59:51,587 and saying, "My elk, my elk, They took my elk. 1179 00:59:51,621 --> 00:59:53,623 "They took my elk." 1180 00:59:53,656 --> 00:59:55,224 Who did you think, "they" were? 1181 00:59:55,258 --> 00:59:57,627 I had no idea what he was even talking about. 1182 00:59:57,660 --> 01:00:00,964 -DAVID: So at the hospital, they do a full examination? -Mm-hmm. 1183 01:00:00,997 --> 01:00:04,400 They checked him over with a fine-tooth comb. 1184 01:00:04,434 --> 01:00:08,037 First, they wanted to know if he was on any drugs. 1185 01:00:08,071 --> 01:00:09,639 He was not. 1186 01:00:09,672 --> 01:00:13,076 And when I ask him, the Dr. Tongco, 1187 01:00:13,109 --> 01:00:16,245 about, about the spots on his lungs, 1188 01:00:16,279 --> 01:00:18,748 he said, "What spots? There are no spots." 1189 01:00:18,781 --> 01:00:21,985 And in the X-ray, they found that his lungs were completely clear, 1190 01:00:22,018 --> 01:00:25,188 which was highly suspicious and unusual 1191 01:00:25,221 --> 01:00:28,424 because Carl had tuberculosis scars on his lungs. 1192 01:00:28,458 --> 01:00:32,795 So something happened while he was gone that cleared that up. 1193 01:00:32,829 --> 01:00:34,097 At the time, did you think that 1194 01:00:34,130 --> 01:00:36,499 maybe something happened on that ship 1195 01:00:36,532 --> 01:00:38,368 that they made you pure and clean? 1196 01:00:41,137 --> 01:00:44,807 No, I think it was, when I was behind the screen up there 1197 01:00:45,708 --> 01:00:49,312 because that's what he said, 1198 01:00:49,345 --> 01:00:52,281 "You're not what we want. We'll take you back." 1199 01:00:53,249 --> 01:00:58,021 And I figured it was because of my vasectomy. 1200 01:00:58,054 --> 01:00:59,722 But I'm not sure of that. 1201 01:01:00,723 --> 01:01:03,426 DAVID: If it was because of the vasectomy, 1202 01:01:03,459 --> 01:01:06,462 was the insinuation that if you didn't have one, 1203 01:01:06,496 --> 01:01:07,997 you weren't coming back? 1204 01:01:09,098 --> 01:01:10,767 [LAUGHING] 1205 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,336 That's what I gathered. 1206 01:01:13,369 --> 01:01:17,907 So Carl insinuates that the entities didn't want him 1207 01:01:17,940 --> 01:01:21,811 because his reproductive system wasn't intact. 1208 01:01:23,413 --> 01:01:25,982 Now, if it was, 1209 01:01:26,015 --> 01:01:29,285 we probably wouldn't even be talking about this story. 1210 01:01:32,021 --> 01:01:33,523 DAVID: So I read a name 1211 01:01:33,556 --> 01:01:36,192 and you can explain this to me, Dr. Leo Sprinkle. 1212 01:01:36,225 --> 01:01:38,728 How did he come into the picture and what did he do? 1213 01:01:38,761 --> 01:01:40,430 MARJORIE: He was a psychologist, 1214 01:01:40,463 --> 01:01:44,133 and he was with the University of Wyoming. 1215 01:01:44,167 --> 01:01:50,139 And he studies UFO-people, contactees. 1216 01:01:50,173 --> 01:01:53,142 He could not say that he actually believed him. 1217 01:01:53,176 --> 01:01:55,111 But he couldn't say that he did not. 1218 01:01:55,144 --> 01:01:57,346 Carl took a lie detector test. 1219 01:01:57,380 --> 01:02:00,850 In fact, he took, I don't know, three or four of them. 1220 01:02:00,883 --> 01:02:02,485 What were the results of those? 1221 01:02:02,518 --> 01:02:04,954 MARJORIE: He's telling the truth as he believes. 1222 01:02:06,756 --> 01:02:09,192 CHRIS: I don't know what other people think. 1223 01:02:11,427 --> 01:02:14,797 But if they don't believe it, they don't have to. 1224 01:02:17,233 --> 01:02:19,202 I mean, everybody got their own opinion. 1225 01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:22,238 I know what happened to me. 1226 01:02:26,976 --> 01:02:28,478 I'm Richard Beckwith. 1227 01:02:28,511 --> 01:02:31,547 I am the city attorney for the city of Rock Springs. 1228 01:02:31,581 --> 01:02:35,284 I'm also the state director for the Mutual UFO Network 1229 01:02:35,318 --> 01:02:37,286 and I have been a practicing attorney 1230 01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,222 for the last 26 years. 1231 01:02:39,255 --> 01:02:41,891 Can you give us a general overview of what MUFON does? 1232 01:02:41,924 --> 01:02:44,594 We are a worldwide or global organization 1233 01:02:44,627 --> 01:02:48,397 dedicated to the study of UFOs for the benefit of humanity. 1234 01:02:48,431 --> 01:02:51,300 And I'd like to think that that is exactly what we do. 1235 01:02:51,334 --> 01:02:55,471 An incident that I interviewed, the victim about 1236 01:02:55,505 --> 01:02:57,707 was a man named Carl Higdon. 1237 01:02:57,740 --> 01:02:59,308 I do remember that taking place. 1238 01:02:59,342 --> 01:03:01,377 I think I was 14 years old when it happened. 1239 01:03:01,410 --> 01:03:02,945 I'd like to know your thoughts about it. 1240 01:03:02,979 --> 01:03:04,180 Well, first of all, I don't, 1241 01:03:04,213 --> 01:03:06,082 I don't think that Carl was lying. 1242 01:03:06,115 --> 01:03:08,951 I know Dr Sprinkle very well, Dr. Leo Sprinkle. 1243 01:03:08,985 --> 01:03:12,989 He investigated that case and did some hypnosis, 1244 01:03:13,022 --> 01:03:15,024 some regressive hypnosis with Mr. Higdon, 1245 01:03:15,057 --> 01:03:19,495 and his impression of the case was that Mr. Higdon was telling the truth, 1246 01:03:19,529 --> 01:03:21,831 or at least what he believed to be the truth. 1247 01:03:21,864 --> 01:03:25,801 So some of the things about that case to me reeked of credibility. 1248 01:03:25,835 --> 01:03:31,240 He had lung congestion and scarring on his lungs before the incident. 1249 01:03:31,908 --> 01:03:34,177 And subsequent to it... 1250 01:03:34,210 --> 01:03:36,179 -His lungs were clear. -RICHARD: Yeah. 1251 01:03:36,212 --> 01:03:40,049 DAVID: And then the issue about the bullet 1252 01:03:40,082 --> 01:03:42,451 coming out of the gun and stopping after hitting something 1253 01:03:42,485 --> 01:03:45,321 -and being recovered and even analyzed... -Right. Yeah. 1254 01:03:46,022 --> 01:03:47,423 They did examine the bullet 1255 01:03:47,456 --> 01:03:50,126 and find that it had struck something 1256 01:03:50,159 --> 01:03:52,828 and something really hard. 1257 01:03:52,862 --> 01:03:55,665 It has these physiological characteristics 1258 01:03:55,698 --> 01:03:57,533 that are just unexplained. 1259 01:03:57,567 --> 01:04:00,169 DAVID: So in your experience and in your readings 1260 01:04:00,203 --> 01:04:02,038 of people who have been abducted, 1261 01:04:03,005 --> 01:04:04,840 how does the Higdon case compare 1262 01:04:04,874 --> 01:04:07,810 as far as the physical evidence? 1263 01:04:07,843 --> 01:04:14,584 Most abduction cases don't really involve a lot of physical evidence. 1264 01:04:14,617 --> 01:04:16,686 We have the Higdon incident, 1265 01:04:16,719 --> 01:04:18,854 a hunter, 1266 01:04:18,888 --> 01:04:22,992 German surname, hunting elk by himself, 1267 01:04:23,025 --> 01:04:24,527 claims he has been abducted. 1268 01:04:25,795 --> 01:04:29,398 In that same general area, just last year, 1269 01:04:29,432 --> 01:04:32,568 there was a guy named Mark Strittmater, you know about that case? 1270 01:04:32,602 --> 01:04:34,070 RICHARD: A couple of different things 1271 01:04:34,103 --> 01:04:35,905 that I find interesting about that case is that 1272 01:04:35,938 --> 01:04:38,741 you've got an individual that's the same age, 1273 01:04:38,774 --> 01:04:40,409 approximately as Mr. Higdon, 1274 01:04:40,443 --> 01:04:43,312 also about the same time of year. 1275 01:04:43,346 --> 01:04:47,850 Mr. Higdon's incident took place on October 25th 1974, 1276 01:04:47,883 --> 01:04:52,755 and Mr. Strittmater went missing on October 19th, 1277 01:04:52,788 --> 01:04:58,794 of 2019, almost 35 years exactly to the day 1278 01:04:58,828 --> 01:05:01,230 in a relatively similar location. 1279 01:05:03,132 --> 01:05:05,568 DAVID: So we're on Forest Road 801... 1280 01:05:06,202 --> 01:05:10,006 And we are in the area 1281 01:05:10,039 --> 01:05:13,309 where Mark Strittmater was coming 1282 01:05:13,342 --> 01:05:16,245 to go elk hunting on October 19th, 2019 1283 01:05:16,279 --> 01:05:18,281 in the Medicine Bow National Forest. 1284 01:05:19,315 --> 01:05:23,119 In about 200 yards before Forest Road 830, 1285 01:05:23,152 --> 01:05:26,355 he pulls to the side of the road for some reason, 1286 01:05:26,389 --> 01:05:28,257 and there's some theories behind, 1287 01:05:28,291 --> 01:05:31,060 maybe he was pulling over because he saw 1288 01:05:31,093 --> 01:05:32,495 one of his hunting targets, 1289 01:05:32,528 --> 01:05:36,098 big bull across the road, deer, who knows? 1290 01:05:36,132 --> 01:05:38,267 But he pulls to the side of the road 1291 01:05:38,301 --> 01:05:41,637 stops, gets out of his vehicle, 1292 01:05:41,671 --> 01:05:44,006 and he takes a light coat, 1293 01:05:45,041 --> 01:05:48,277 a light day pack leaves his big pack in the car, 1294 01:05:49,111 --> 01:05:51,113 leaves his keys in the vehicle, 1295 01:05:51,814 --> 01:05:53,049 and he gets out. 1296 01:05:54,517 --> 01:05:57,453 Off camera, the search and rescue person told me 1297 01:05:57,486 --> 01:06:03,192 that Mark was a 15-year veteran outfitter, 1298 01:06:03,225 --> 01:06:05,294 for Big-Game in this area. 1299 01:06:05,328 --> 01:06:08,464 So he knew the outdoors super well. 1300 01:06:08,497 --> 01:06:09,732 He knew how to track 1301 01:06:09,765 --> 01:06:12,735 and he knew elk didn't walk in a straight line. 1302 01:06:12,768 --> 01:06:14,637 Elk take off and they wander. 1303 01:06:14,670 --> 01:06:18,341 So to think that Mark is more than a mile, 1304 01:06:18,374 --> 01:06:21,344 two miles from here, chasing an elk, doesn't make a lot of sense. 1305 01:06:21,977 --> 01:06:23,245 My name is Kim Meese. 1306 01:06:23,279 --> 01:06:24,814 I was girlfriend of Mark Strittmater 1307 01:06:24,847 --> 01:06:26,115 when he went missing. 1308 01:06:26,148 --> 01:06:27,383 In your view what-- 1309 01:06:27,416 --> 01:06:29,285 Wait, what made Mark special? 1310 01:06:29,318 --> 01:06:32,154 He was just a giving person. 1311 01:06:33,322 --> 01:06:35,825 So how comfortable was he in the woods? 1312 01:06:35,858 --> 01:06:37,793 Oh, he grew up in the woods. 1313 01:06:37,827 --> 01:06:42,298 He started hunting as soon as he could, 12, 13 years old. 1314 01:06:42,331 --> 01:06:44,367 -He knew what he was doing. -Oh, yeah. 1315 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,169 In the area that he went missing from, 1316 01:06:47,203 --> 01:06:49,271 where I found his truck at, 1317 01:06:49,305 --> 01:06:51,574 we never hunted that area. 1318 01:06:51,607 --> 01:06:53,209 But that morning that he had went out 1319 01:06:53,242 --> 01:06:56,045 on the 19th that he went missing, 1320 01:06:56,078 --> 01:06:58,347 I had already made plans to come to Rawlins 1321 01:06:59,048 --> 01:07:01,283 to watch my grandkids. 1322 01:07:01,317 --> 01:07:03,652 And he knew that there was a snowstorm coming in 1323 01:07:03,686 --> 01:07:05,588 and I was worried about him. 1324 01:07:05,621 --> 01:07:09,325 And, uh, he tried calling and sent me a text 1325 01:07:09,358 --> 01:07:14,697 and said that he had missed an elk and that he was done. 1326 01:07:14,730 --> 01:07:17,666 So I assumed he was coming back to Saratoga, 1327 01:07:17,700 --> 01:07:22,271 which is a 40-minute drive from where we hunt from. 1328 01:07:22,304 --> 01:07:24,407 So I hung out around the house for a little bit 1329 01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,510 and he never showed up and I left, 1330 01:07:27,543 --> 01:07:30,446 and I was trying to get hold of him that night 1331 01:07:30,479 --> 01:07:32,615 to make sure he made it back before the snow hit 1332 01:07:32,648 --> 01:07:37,353 and trying to call and text and texts weren't delivered. 1333 01:07:37,386 --> 01:07:40,256 Phone calls are going directly to voicemail. 1334 01:07:40,289 --> 01:07:43,759 I hauled ass up there, looking for the truck. 1335 01:07:43,793 --> 01:07:46,762 And then when I got to that intersection, I looked to my left, 1336 01:07:46,796 --> 01:07:49,231 and that's where I saw the pickup was sitting. 1337 01:07:50,132 --> 01:07:51,667 Explain how it was sitting? 1338 01:07:51,700 --> 01:07:56,505 It was on the east side of the road facing north. 1339 01:07:57,807 --> 01:08:01,277 -Did it look like he parked it there? -Yeah. 1340 01:08:01,310 --> 01:08:03,712 -Did it look out of place to you at all? -Yeah. Yeah. 1341 01:08:03,746 --> 01:08:05,114 -It did? -It did. 1342 01:08:05,147 --> 01:08:08,918 And when I got to it, like I said it had snowed 1343 01:08:08,951 --> 01:08:14,557 and I had to clean off probably 12, 15 inches of snow just to get into it. 1344 01:08:14,590 --> 01:08:19,995 And when we would hunt, we always left our key in our gas tank, 1345 01:08:20,029 --> 01:08:22,665 so I was able to get in the truck, 1346 01:08:22,698 --> 01:08:27,036 and that's when I found his phone and cigarettes, his medication. 1347 01:08:27,069 --> 01:08:30,506 The only thing that was missing was him and his pack and gun. 1348 01:08:30,539 --> 01:08:33,709 So when he texted you last, what did it say? 1349 01:08:33,742 --> 01:08:37,313 The last text it says, I got it at 11 o'clock 1350 01:08:37,346 --> 01:08:38,781 says... [READING] 1351 01:08:52,261 --> 01:08:56,532 So from that, it kind of sounded like he was done? 1352 01:08:56,565 --> 01:08:58,467 Yeah, and that's what I assumed 1353 01:08:58,501 --> 01:09:00,703 that maybe he was coming back to town. 1354 01:09:00,736 --> 01:09:03,906 You find the truck, you can't find him? 1355 01:09:03,939 --> 01:09:07,343 Do you look around at all? Or do you just call Sheriff? 1356 01:09:07,376 --> 01:09:09,778 No, I walked around the area, 1357 01:09:09,812 --> 01:09:12,915 just to see if I could see any tracks or anything. 1358 01:09:13,782 --> 01:09:15,417 And I didn't see anything. 1359 01:09:16,151 --> 01:09:18,654 So I came back to Saratoga 1360 01:09:18,687 --> 01:09:20,890 and called the sheriff's deputy. 1361 01:09:20,923 --> 01:09:23,692 So right off the bat we came in. 1362 01:09:23,726 --> 01:09:25,027 The first day we came in 1363 01:09:25,060 --> 01:09:26,262 with a whole bunch of ground pounders 1364 01:09:26,295 --> 01:09:28,397 and we just went shoulder-to-shoulder 1365 01:09:28,430 --> 01:09:29,932 and walked timber. 1366 01:09:29,965 --> 01:09:31,800 And then we went around and picked a different spot 1367 01:09:31,834 --> 01:09:34,503 near the truck and chose a different direction 1368 01:09:34,537 --> 01:09:36,405 and started pounding more timber. 1369 01:09:36,438 --> 01:09:39,942 DAVID: That initial search, how many days did it last? 1370 01:09:39,975 --> 01:09:44,713 The first time around, I think, was seven days, if I'm not mistaken. 1371 01:09:44,747 --> 01:09:48,017 It's like I said, we were gone for the first two days of it, 1372 01:09:48,050 --> 01:09:52,254 then we got back, we took off and looked for him, 1373 01:09:52,288 --> 01:09:54,690 and I think total I had five days in it. 1374 01:09:54,723 --> 01:09:57,359 And was there a subsequent effort to find? 1375 01:09:57,393 --> 01:10:01,463 We did go back the spring, um, we spent a full day 1376 01:10:01,497 --> 01:10:05,768 with quite a few resources out and three different dog teams. 1377 01:10:05,801 --> 01:10:08,571 Did your canines hit on any scent anywhere? 1378 01:10:08,604 --> 01:10:10,339 BRYCE: I never had a hit. 1379 01:10:10,372 --> 01:10:12,408 How odd is it not to pick up any scent? 1380 01:10:14,043 --> 01:10:15,544 Very. 1381 01:10:15,578 --> 01:10:16,912 As much ground as we covered 1382 01:10:16,946 --> 01:10:20,249 in as many different wind patterns as we hit, 1383 01:10:20,282 --> 01:10:22,851 you would think, you know, law of averages, 1384 01:10:22,885 --> 01:10:24,787 you'd at least get a head turn out of it. 1385 01:10:24,820 --> 01:10:26,655 Just somebody should at least tripped over him. 1386 01:10:26,689 --> 01:10:28,457 The amount of people we've had out 1387 01:10:28,490 --> 01:10:30,626 and we flew drones in the canyon. 1388 01:10:30,659 --> 01:10:33,929 Well, three of the canyons, we flew drones in them. 1389 01:10:33,963 --> 01:10:35,764 DAVID: Did you have any other kind of air support? 1390 01:10:35,798 --> 01:10:37,399 BRYCE: We did. We had Civil Air. 1391 01:10:37,433 --> 01:10:39,201 The last fall we had Civil Air in 1392 01:10:39,234 --> 01:10:41,604 and they flew over forest for a couple days. 1393 01:10:41,637 --> 01:10:44,406 Was there any evidence anywhere of animal predation? 1394 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:46,675 You know what I saw? 1395 01:10:47,209 --> 01:10:48,577 We tracked one bear 1396 01:10:48,611 --> 01:10:51,847 to see what he was, where he was gonna go. 1397 01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:55,985 But the only other thing I noticed is we never had birds during that search. 1398 01:10:56,018 --> 01:10:58,587 DAVID: And birds are an indicator of? BRYCE: A body. 1399 01:10:59,622 --> 01:11:01,357 You can kind of hone in on to it. 1400 01:11:01,390 --> 01:11:02,291 -BRYCE: Yeah. -By the birds. 1401 01:11:02,324 --> 01:11:04,059 BRYCE: Yeah, and I mean, I run dogs. 1402 01:11:04,093 --> 01:11:06,195 I'm a firm believer in dogs, but at the same time, 1403 01:11:06,228 --> 01:11:07,663 if the birds already have eyes on him, 1404 01:11:07,696 --> 01:11:09,031 that makes it a lot easier. 1405 01:11:09,665 --> 01:11:11,500 And how odd was this search? 1406 01:11:13,202 --> 01:11:14,870 Very. To not... 1407 01:11:15,704 --> 01:11:17,740 Most people have kind of a pattern. 1408 01:11:17,773 --> 01:11:21,810 I mean, if you're out hunting and you see an elk, 1409 01:11:21,844 --> 01:11:24,346 you know, run across the road, you're probably gonna go 1410 01:11:24,380 --> 01:11:25,781 find a spot to actually park, 1411 01:11:25,814 --> 01:11:28,017 not just pull to the edge of the road and jump out. 1412 01:11:28,050 --> 01:11:31,053 How difficult would it be for someone to be lost in there? 1413 01:11:33,489 --> 01:11:35,858 If you really wanted out, everything around here, 1414 01:11:35,891 --> 01:11:38,027 you just walk downhill until you find a road. 1415 01:11:38,060 --> 01:11:39,928 DAVID: And you'll eventually hit a road? BRYCE: Eventually. 1416 01:11:39,962 --> 01:11:41,730 You might have to cross private property. 1417 01:11:41,764 --> 01:11:43,699 But if you're worried about dying in the middle of it, 1418 01:11:43,732 --> 01:11:44,833 who cares? 1419 01:11:44,867 --> 01:11:47,336 DAVID: So in talking to the search and rescue people, 1420 01:11:48,037 --> 01:11:49,838 I asked them, I said so, 1421 01:11:49,872 --> 01:11:51,807 "Was there anything odd about this?" 1422 01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,276 -"The whole thing was odd." -Yeah. 1423 01:11:54,310 --> 01:11:57,446 -So they said that the canines didn't pick up a scent. -No. 1424 01:11:58,514 --> 01:12:00,516 They didn't see any tracks. 1425 01:12:00,549 --> 01:12:02,951 -They never recovered any of his property. -Mm-mm. 1426 01:12:04,186 --> 01:12:05,421 The weather changed the next day, 1427 01:12:05,454 --> 01:12:07,656 and if Mark knew the weather was changing, 1428 01:12:07,690 --> 01:12:09,591 -he wouldn't stay out there? -No. 1429 01:12:10,526 --> 01:12:13,696 At what point did you tell yourself, 1430 01:12:15,364 --> 01:12:16,965 "Hey, Mark may not be coming back"? 1431 01:12:19,401 --> 01:12:21,970 After they got done searching, 1432 01:12:22,004 --> 01:12:27,042 they just said, "You know, it's, it doesn't look good." 1433 01:12:27,076 --> 01:12:31,680 DAVID: A lot of people said a lot of strange things about this case, 1434 01:12:31,714 --> 01:12:35,617 and in your time with Mark out there, 1435 01:12:35,651 --> 01:12:37,720 did you guys ever experience anything weird? 1436 01:12:38,721 --> 01:12:41,023 -As far as-- -Anything weird? 1437 01:12:42,324 --> 01:12:46,361 He was out hunting deer with a rifle, 1438 01:12:46,395 --> 01:12:49,164 and he swore he saw a UFO out there. 1439 01:12:49,198 --> 01:12:52,367 He was coming out from hunting, 1440 01:12:52,401 --> 01:12:55,738 and he's, just happened to look up, and saw it, 1441 01:12:55,771 --> 01:12:58,607 like he said, it was just like hovering, following him, 1442 01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:00,709 and it freaked him out. 1443 01:13:00,743 --> 01:13:04,146 And he tried to look at it through his binoculars, 1444 01:13:04,179 --> 01:13:05,514 but it was getting dark. 1445 01:13:06,482 --> 01:13:09,551 And it... So he, it scared him. 1446 01:13:09,585 --> 01:13:11,353 What it looked like to him? 1447 01:13:11,386 --> 01:13:13,856 He said it was just like a black... 1448 01:13:13,889 --> 01:13:16,725 I believe it was just black, it was just hovering. 1449 01:13:17,526 --> 01:13:19,094 -And it scared him? -Yeah. 1450 01:13:19,128 --> 01:13:21,697 Because it was like it was following him out. 1451 01:13:22,364 --> 01:13:23,599 Another odd question. 1452 01:13:24,199 --> 01:13:25,601 Did Mark have a vasectomy? 1453 01:13:26,335 --> 01:13:28,036 A vasectomy? No. 1454 01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:29,638 DAVID: He didn't. 1455 01:13:29,671 --> 01:13:31,673 Did he say how long he saw this thing? 1456 01:13:33,408 --> 01:13:35,377 He said it was just following him, 1457 01:13:35,410 --> 01:13:38,013 but minutes, like, disappeared. 1458 01:13:38,046 --> 01:13:40,048 What did you think when you heard that? 1459 01:13:40,082 --> 01:13:43,085 Kind of freaked me out because he was freaked out. 1460 01:13:43,118 --> 01:13:45,921 -DAVID: And he was a pretty calm guy? -Mm-hmm. 1461 01:13:45,954 --> 01:13:48,423 And would he be the kind of person ever make up stories like that? 1462 01:13:48,457 --> 01:13:49,758 No. 1463 01:13:49,792 --> 01:13:53,595 -So when you heard that from him believability a 100%? -Mm-hmm. 1464 01:13:54,663 --> 01:13:56,465 That's crossed my mind, too. 1465 01:13:56,498 --> 01:13:58,901 After he told me that story, 1466 01:13:58,934 --> 01:14:01,837 maybe there was something out there. 1467 01:14:01,870 --> 01:14:04,640 -So how many years were you guys together, 13? -Thirteen. 1468 01:14:05,774 --> 01:14:08,377 And when he disappeared, 1469 01:14:08,410 --> 01:14:11,647 how would you describe your relationship that previous week? 1470 01:14:12,381 --> 01:14:14,283 Um, normal. 1471 01:14:14,316 --> 01:14:15,484 -DAVID: Normal? -Yeah. 1472 01:14:15,517 --> 01:14:17,052 And how did Mark get along with your kids? 1473 01:14:18,253 --> 01:14:19,421 Fine. 1474 01:14:19,454 --> 01:14:20,956 How did Marley take this? 1475 01:14:20,989 --> 01:14:25,227 Oh, she's... having a rough time. 1476 01:14:29,331 --> 01:14:31,800 And when you sit and you talk to Marley about it, 1477 01:14:31,834 --> 01:14:33,535 what do you guys talk about? 1478 01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:41,510 She's just sad that he's not here anymore. 1479 01:14:43,178 --> 01:14:45,147 Yeah, she took it hard, 1480 01:14:45,180 --> 01:14:46,615 and finally... 1481 01:14:47,749 --> 01:14:50,552 she just kept asking me after he left, 1482 01:14:51,587 --> 01:14:53,021 if he was coming back? 1483 01:14:55,123 --> 01:14:57,526 It's hard for me to talk to her about it. 1484 01:15:02,965 --> 01:15:04,633 So the million dollar question, 1485 01:15:04,666 --> 01:15:06,168 what happened to Mark Strittmater? 1486 01:15:07,703 --> 01:15:09,204 That same question can be applied 1487 01:15:09,238 --> 01:15:12,241 to the thousands of other cases I've investigated, 1488 01:15:13,508 --> 01:15:15,544 that follow the same profile points, 1489 01:15:16,211 --> 01:15:17,279 we've discussed here. 1490 01:15:20,749 --> 01:15:22,317 Families don't have answers. 1491 01:15:23,285 --> 01:15:25,120 We move on to the next case, 1492 01:15:26,588 --> 01:15:29,191 and it's something that follows me every day. 1493 01:15:31,460 --> 01:15:34,930 I have great empathy for the families that are left behind. 1494 01:15:41,870 --> 01:15:43,238 I've always been of the opinion 1495 01:15:43,272 --> 01:15:47,643 that there aren't such a thing as coincidences. 1496 01:15:47,676 --> 01:15:50,679 Just east of where Carl disappeared, 1497 01:15:50,712 --> 01:15:53,081 there was another man, named Gustafson, 1498 01:15:53,115 --> 01:15:57,119 and he was from Minnesota, another elk hunter, 1499 01:15:57,152 --> 01:15:59,888 and he also disappeared and was never found. 1500 01:15:59,922 --> 01:16:02,124 Now he was older. He was in his 70s, 1501 01:16:02,157 --> 01:16:04,293 also in Medicine Bow. 1502 01:16:04,326 --> 01:16:08,964 But those, those three cases were in geographical proximity to one another. 1503 01:16:12,167 --> 01:16:14,303 Well, we're in the Medicine Bow National Forest, 1504 01:16:14,336 --> 01:16:17,072 about 20 miles due east 1505 01:16:17,105 --> 01:16:20,542 of where the Higdon and Strittmater case happened. 1506 01:16:20,575 --> 01:16:22,744 Same forest, different location, 1507 01:16:22,778 --> 01:16:27,249 right above 8,000, 9,000 feet high up. 1508 01:16:27,282 --> 01:16:31,453 And this is the location that Charles Gustafson 1509 01:16:31,486 --> 01:16:36,191 a 72-year-old man from Minnesota, came out with his family. 1510 01:16:36,224 --> 01:16:41,830 And on October 11th in 2006, split up from his family, 1511 01:16:41,863 --> 01:16:43,765 and they decided to hunt different areas. 1512 01:16:44,533 --> 01:16:46,668 Gustafson went off for the day. 1513 01:16:46,702 --> 01:16:48,704 He didn't come back that night. 1514 01:16:48,737 --> 01:16:51,006 His family members got concerned. 1515 01:16:51,039 --> 01:16:54,242 He was carrying a Trailside GPS. 1516 01:16:54,276 --> 01:16:55,644 He had a compass. 1517 01:16:55,677 --> 01:16:57,212 He had food. He had water. 1518 01:16:57,245 --> 01:16:59,614 The interesting part about this gentleman 1519 01:16:59,648 --> 01:17:02,784 is he had survival training in the military. 1520 01:17:03,485 --> 01:17:04,920 And so he knew how to, 1521 01:17:04,953 --> 01:17:07,122 how to live out here in the wilderness. 1522 01:17:07,155 --> 01:17:10,892 To think that he got out here and he got lost, 1523 01:17:10,926 --> 01:17:12,894 kind of difficult to understand. 1524 01:17:15,764 --> 01:17:17,366 My name is Jerry Colson. 1525 01:17:17,399 --> 01:17:21,036 I'm the retired sheriff of Carbon County, Wyoming. 1526 01:17:21,069 --> 01:17:24,639 And in 2006, when Charles Gustafson was here 1527 01:17:24,673 --> 01:17:27,776 elk hunting in October of that year, he went missing. 1528 01:17:27,809 --> 01:17:29,945 I was a sheriff at that time. 1529 01:17:29,978 --> 01:17:32,347 So in the articles, it said that he was camped with, 1530 01:17:32,381 --> 01:17:34,683 I think a nephew and some other relatives, 1531 01:17:34,716 --> 01:17:39,721 -near Forest Road 111 and 129, is that kind of ring, right? -Correct. 1532 01:17:39,755 --> 01:17:41,123 DAVID: I had also heard that he had been 1533 01:17:41,156 --> 01:17:42,791 to this area many times in the past? 1534 01:17:42,824 --> 01:17:44,126 Yeah, according to family members, 1535 01:17:44,159 --> 01:17:46,428 they hunt this area pretty regular. 1536 01:17:46,461 --> 01:17:49,865 And what kind of resources would you pull for something like this? 1537 01:17:49,898 --> 01:17:52,534 Four-wheel drive and searchers on foot, 1538 01:17:52,567 --> 01:17:55,137 requested a helicopter out of Warren Air Force Base 1539 01:17:55,170 --> 01:17:57,472 in Cheyenne, military helicopter. 1540 01:17:57,506 --> 01:17:59,174 And we would use Civil Air Patrol. 1541 01:17:59,207 --> 01:18:01,410 So we go, you know, air search. 1542 01:18:01,443 --> 01:18:05,347 And we eventually had searchers on horseback too. 1543 01:18:05,380 --> 01:18:08,050 Brought in some canines, um, 1544 01:18:08,083 --> 01:18:09,985 both cadaver and search dogs. 1545 01:18:10,018 --> 01:18:11,820 As the time went on, we went with cadaver. 1546 01:18:11,853 --> 01:18:14,723 Did any dog pick up a scent trail? 1547 01:18:14,756 --> 01:18:17,392 No, nothing that led to Mr. Gustafson. 1548 01:18:17,426 --> 01:18:20,595 -You searched for what? A week? -About six days. 1549 01:18:20,629 --> 01:18:22,064 I had to call it off about the sixth day 1550 01:18:22,097 --> 01:18:22,931 because of the weather coming in. 1551 01:18:22,964 --> 01:18:24,633 The helicopters were there until 1552 01:18:24,666 --> 01:18:26,034 it started snowing and they had to go. 1553 01:18:26,068 --> 01:18:28,637 The unusual nature of being lost in the woods 1554 01:18:28,670 --> 01:18:31,273 and not found, is that unusual? 1555 01:18:31,306 --> 01:18:33,875 It's not unusual for people to become lost in the woods. 1556 01:18:33,909 --> 01:18:36,111 It is unusual and not commonplace 1557 01:18:36,144 --> 01:18:38,613 for us not to find within a day or two. 1558 01:18:38,647 --> 01:18:44,052 People who watch this will say, "Oh, you know, maybe this was a case of animal predation." 1559 01:18:44,086 --> 01:18:45,987 What would you say to that? 1560 01:18:46,021 --> 01:18:47,355 I mean, we have bears. 1561 01:18:47,389 --> 01:18:49,324 I can tell you the whole time I was sheriff 1562 01:18:49,357 --> 01:18:52,060 and I worked at sheriff's office for 39 years, 1563 01:18:52,094 --> 01:18:55,163 I never remember anybody being attacked by a bear. 1564 01:18:55,197 --> 01:18:59,568 How long was it before anybody found anything related to him? 1565 01:18:59,601 --> 01:19:00,435 There were some fishermen 1566 01:19:00,469 --> 01:19:03,171 down there in Rock Creek canyon, 1567 01:19:03,205 --> 01:19:04,473 and they were just walking along, 1568 01:19:04,506 --> 01:19:06,041 with everyone else saying, "Look over there," 1569 01:19:06,074 --> 01:19:08,443 and there's this rifle sitting in the fork of a tree, 1570 01:19:08,477 --> 01:19:11,346 leaning in the fork of a tree right by the creek. 1571 01:19:11,379 --> 01:19:12,814 So they picked it up and brought it out 1572 01:19:12,848 --> 01:19:14,349 and turned it over and we got it 1573 01:19:14,382 --> 01:19:16,751 and confirmed to the family it was his rifle. 1574 01:19:16,785 --> 01:19:19,154 Was anything else found in that immediate area? 1575 01:19:19,187 --> 01:19:20,055 Myself and some other searchers, 1576 01:19:20,088 --> 01:19:22,023 we went down to the right of that area 1577 01:19:22,057 --> 01:19:23,758 where everything was found. 1578 01:19:23,792 --> 01:19:28,363 I actually sat down on the side of the hill there by the creek. 1579 01:19:28,396 --> 01:19:29,965 I looked over at about ten-foot from me, 1580 01:19:29,998 --> 01:19:31,733 here's this fanny pack. 1581 01:19:31,766 --> 01:19:33,235 It had a water bottle, I remember that. 1582 01:19:33,268 --> 01:19:35,937 So it turned out to be Charlie's fanny pack. 1583 01:19:35,971 --> 01:19:37,939 So was any of his clothing or shoes 1584 01:19:37,973 --> 01:19:39,374 -or any of that found? -Never. Nothing. 1585 01:19:39,407 --> 01:19:42,410 Other than his fanny pack and rifle. That's all that's been found. 1586 01:19:44,379 --> 01:19:51,219 So we have Charles' disappearance in northern Medicine Bow. 1587 01:19:51,253 --> 01:19:54,189 We have the Strittmater disappearance, 1588 01:19:54,222 --> 01:19:57,225 just southwest of where Charles disappeared. 1589 01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:01,463 We also have the Higdon disappearance. 1590 01:20:01,496 --> 01:20:06,268 On the northwest sector of Cheyenne is Warren Air Force Base. 1591 01:20:06,301 --> 01:20:09,905 And this is the location that did the air support 1592 01:20:09,938 --> 01:20:13,108 on the disappearances we marked here. 1593 01:20:13,141 --> 01:20:16,077 Surprisingly, I found some documents 1594 01:20:16,711 --> 01:20:20,348 about UFOs being observed 1595 01:20:20,382 --> 01:20:24,352 by on-duty Air Force personnel at Warren. 1596 01:20:28,690 --> 01:20:31,026 All three men have German heritage. 1597 01:20:31,059 --> 01:20:33,428 All three men, elk hunters. 1598 01:20:33,461 --> 01:20:37,399 I had to ask myself, are there other hunters 1599 01:20:37,432 --> 01:20:41,436 missing from this region that matched that profile? 1600 01:20:41,469 --> 01:20:45,006 Are there any hunters that have gone missing in recent times, 1601 01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:48,043 that kind of match the profile of these other guys? 1602 01:20:48,076 --> 01:20:50,245 Yeah, a guy named Terry Meador 1603 01:20:50,278 --> 01:20:52,214 who was a teacher here in Rock Springs, 1604 01:20:52,247 --> 01:20:54,683 I actually knew him, and he was a teacher 1605 01:20:54,716 --> 01:20:56,051 when I was in high school. 1606 01:20:56,084 --> 01:20:57,686 And he came up missing 1607 01:20:57,719 --> 01:21:00,222 when he had gone out to go hunting. 1608 01:21:00,255 --> 01:21:01,957 DAVID: And the area that he was in, 1609 01:21:01,990 --> 01:21:03,992 can you kind of explain it to us? 1610 01:21:04,025 --> 01:21:06,561 Well, it's very typical of southwest Wyoming. 1611 01:21:06,595 --> 01:21:09,364 It's sagebrush, prairie. 1612 01:21:09,397 --> 01:21:13,301 Uh, it's what we call high desert, isolated. 1613 01:21:13,335 --> 01:21:15,470 -DAVID: Not a lot of cover? -No. 1614 01:21:15,503 --> 01:21:17,239 So where could he go? 1615 01:21:17,272 --> 01:21:19,407 He'd have to crawl into a hole. 1616 01:21:19,441 --> 01:21:21,309 -DAVID: And there are not a lot of holes there? -No. 1617 01:21:21,343 --> 01:21:24,412 -Not a lot of caves. -I mean, it's open desert. 1618 01:21:24,446 --> 01:21:27,716 Anything out there in the middle of the desert that could hurt him? 1619 01:21:27,749 --> 01:21:30,785 On occasion we've had a wolf or two. 1620 01:21:30,819 --> 01:21:35,257 I can't think of any large predatory animals that would be able to, 1621 01:21:35,290 --> 01:21:38,326 you know, take a human being and drag them off somewhere. 1622 01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:40,195 What would be your thinking on that? 1623 01:21:40,228 --> 01:21:41,429 I suppose we could say that 1624 01:21:41,463 --> 01:21:43,531 there's a possibility he was abducted. 1625 01:21:43,565 --> 01:21:46,201 Uh, but there's no evidence of that. 1626 01:21:46,234 --> 01:21:47,969 All we know is that he was there 1627 01:21:48,003 --> 01:21:49,571 and then he's not there anymore. 1628 01:21:49,604 --> 01:21:52,540 DAVID: This is in the middle-of-nowhere desert. 1629 01:21:52,574 --> 01:21:55,844 And his truck was stuck in a ditch. 1630 01:21:55,877 --> 01:21:58,179 And they searched for a week and they never found him. 1631 01:21:59,581 --> 01:22:04,452 Do you see any, any convening of the facts, 1632 01:22:04,486 --> 01:22:08,290 any assimilation that you could make between all of these guys? 1633 01:22:08,323 --> 01:22:10,091 One of the big similarities, of course is 1634 01:22:10,125 --> 01:22:11,960 that they're all by themselves 1635 01:22:11,993 --> 01:22:14,162 and they're all elk hunting. 1636 01:22:14,195 --> 01:22:15,830 With the exception of Mr. Meador, 1637 01:22:15,864 --> 01:22:17,465 they're all about the same age. 1638 01:22:17,499 --> 01:22:22,270 In your time as monitoring MUFON activity in Wyoming, 1639 01:22:22,304 --> 01:22:25,006 have you ever heard of anything similar to this? 1640 01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,309 We have the cases involving Pat McGuire, 1641 01:22:27,342 --> 01:22:32,747 who owned a ranch over in the eastern part of Wyoming, 1642 01:22:32,781 --> 01:22:38,453 and he had a series of incidents I guess you could say involving UFOs 1643 01:22:38,486 --> 01:22:41,056 and I was fortunate enough to be able to sit in 1644 01:22:41,089 --> 01:22:44,125 on one of the regressive hypnosis sessions. 1645 01:22:44,159 --> 01:22:47,696 And he had some experiences. 1646 01:22:47,729 --> 01:22:49,597 And he was allegedly told 1647 01:22:49,631 --> 01:22:54,569 by a race of alien beings that he was to build a well, 1648 01:22:54,602 --> 01:22:59,908 to dig a well on this location in or near Wheatland, Wyoming. 1649 01:22:59,941 --> 01:23:01,609 He took that very seriously. 1650 01:23:01,643 --> 01:23:04,946 He actually went out and bought himself a tank 1651 01:23:04,979 --> 01:23:06,414 and he got the motor off it 1652 01:23:06,448 --> 01:23:08,917 to pump the water out of this well. 1653 01:23:08,950 --> 01:23:12,387 But he had geologists, and all these other folks tell him that he was crazy 1654 01:23:12,420 --> 01:23:15,023 for wanting to put the well where he wanted to put it, 1655 01:23:15,056 --> 01:23:17,792 because it was just a solid slab of rock. 1656 01:23:17,826 --> 01:23:20,061 And there was no way he was ever gonna get any water. 1657 01:23:20,095 --> 01:23:22,397 But he insisted that the aliens 1658 01:23:22,430 --> 01:23:24,132 had told him that there was water there 1659 01:23:24,165 --> 01:23:26,167 and by God, he was gonna dig that well. 1660 01:23:26,201 --> 01:23:27,969 -And he did. -Boy. 1661 01:23:28,002 --> 01:23:31,806 DAVID: And you just said something that is huge to me. 1662 01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:35,577 So in the United States, we have 64 geographical clusters 1663 01:23:35,610 --> 01:23:38,313 of missing people that fit our profile points. 1664 01:23:38,947 --> 01:23:40,515 As unusual as it sounds, 1665 01:23:40,548 --> 01:23:43,518 right down the middle of the United States, 1666 01:23:43,551 --> 01:23:47,155 there is an area where there are no disappearances. 1667 01:23:47,188 --> 01:23:52,093 Several months ago, I got an email from somebody who worked for the government. 1668 01:23:53,361 --> 01:23:56,731 And he said, "Dave, that area of the U.S. 1669 01:23:56,765 --> 01:24:00,668 "corresponds to a area, 1670 01:24:00,702 --> 01:24:04,439 "which has been described by the U.S. Geological Survey, 1671 01:24:04,472 --> 01:24:08,276 "as an underground water area. 1672 01:24:08,309 --> 01:24:10,979 "It's called the Ogallala Aquifer." 1673 01:24:11,012 --> 01:24:16,418 He says, "You should see if it corresponds with your profile now." 1674 01:24:16,451 --> 01:24:21,756 What we did is we overlay that on top of our cluster map. 1675 01:24:23,124 --> 01:24:26,561 It's almost a near match, which is interesting. 1676 01:24:27,662 --> 01:24:32,233 Because of my background with MUFON and UFOs, 1677 01:24:32,267 --> 01:24:36,638 I also know about underwater submerged objects. 1678 01:24:38,573 --> 01:24:41,810 And those are essentially just UFOs that have gone to water. 1679 01:24:43,745 --> 01:24:45,647 And if there was a way 1680 01:24:46,648 --> 01:24:50,285 to keep yourself hidden, 1681 01:24:50,318 --> 01:24:53,655 yet make yourself apparent at certain times, 1682 01:24:53,688 --> 01:24:59,360 it would be by using the aquifer in going out through Wyoming. 1683 01:24:59,394 --> 01:25:02,664 And when you think about the McGuire incident, 1684 01:25:02,697 --> 01:25:05,467 and the ability of the UFOs to go through the aquifer 1685 01:25:05,500 --> 01:25:08,269 and up out of his well if they watered 1686 01:25:08,303 --> 01:25:11,339 and then their proximity in southwest Wyoming 1687 01:25:11,372 --> 01:25:13,675 to all the incidents we've talked about, 1688 01:25:14,843 --> 01:25:18,079 again it's another one of those coincidence 1689 01:25:18,112 --> 01:25:19,347 that you can't ignore. 1690 01:25:22,684 --> 01:25:25,253 The Ogallala Aquifer, that covers 1691 01:25:25,286 --> 01:25:28,957 almost the exact area where nobody is missing! 1692 01:25:28,990 --> 01:25:31,459 And I put it in the back of my mind. I didn't think much about it. 1693 01:25:31,493 --> 01:25:35,697 But, damn, you saying that this person digs a well 1694 01:25:35,730 --> 01:25:38,032 and it's an offshoot from the Ogallala 1695 01:25:38,066 --> 01:25:39,367 and the aliens told him to do it. 1696 01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:40,935 -Yeah. -That's weird. 1697 01:25:40,969 --> 01:25:43,104 Now what's really weird is they tell him to do it 1698 01:25:43,137 --> 01:25:45,507 and all the geologists and all those guys 1699 01:25:45,540 --> 01:25:47,208 tell him that there's nothing there. 1700 01:25:47,242 --> 01:25:49,344 He's crazy for doing, and he digs the well anyway 1701 01:25:49,377 --> 01:25:52,046 and taps in and finds the water. 1702 01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:54,549 So the crazy guy was right. 1703 01:25:54,582 --> 01:25:57,452 Now, did the aliens tell him to dig the well? 1704 01:25:57,485 --> 01:25:59,220 I don't know, Pat said... 1705 01:25:59,254 --> 01:26:02,290 He certainly believe that the aliens told him to dig the well. 1706 01:26:02,323 --> 01:26:06,361 The reason for the digging of the well 1707 01:26:06,394 --> 01:26:09,364 was so that in the event 1708 01:26:09,397 --> 01:26:12,567 that there was a a global cataclysm, 1709 01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:16,538 that there would be a fresh source of water for the inhabitants 1710 01:26:16,571 --> 01:26:19,507 of that location when it took place. 1711 01:26:19,541 --> 01:26:21,676 DAVID: Let's put all of this into perspective. 1712 01:26:21,709 --> 01:26:24,379 If we plot the locations of the Wyoming cluster 1713 01:26:24,412 --> 01:26:25,980 of missing hunters on a map, 1714 01:26:27,382 --> 01:26:29,083 this coincides with the spread 1715 01:26:29,117 --> 01:26:32,353 of chronic wasting disease throughout southeast Wyoming. 1716 01:26:33,454 --> 01:26:35,623 Chronic wasting disease is decimating 1717 01:26:35,657 --> 01:26:38,826 the elk and deer populations in this region. 1718 01:26:38,860 --> 01:26:41,496 All of the missing and abducted men were elk hunters, 1719 01:26:41,529 --> 01:26:43,932 and all of them disappeared in close proximity 1720 01:26:43,965 --> 01:26:47,702 to Warren Air Force Base, where numerous UFO sightings 1721 01:26:47,735 --> 01:26:51,606 have incredibly documented by government officials. 1722 01:26:51,639 --> 01:26:55,410 We know from the Higdon and the elk abduction cases 1723 01:26:55,443 --> 01:26:57,312 that these beings, whoever they are, 1724 01:26:57,345 --> 01:26:59,647 are interested in North American elk. 1725 01:26:59,681 --> 01:27:02,016 We can hypothesize that perhaps these beings 1726 01:27:02,050 --> 01:27:04,118 are monitoring our elk population 1727 01:27:04,152 --> 01:27:09,457 for what is possibly the worst wildlife disaster in North America. 1728 01:27:09,490 --> 01:27:13,027 Just northeast of this cluster is Pat McGuire's ranch, 1729 01:27:13,061 --> 01:27:16,698 where the beings told him to dig a well for water, 1730 01:27:16,731 --> 01:27:20,635 that miraculously was fed by the Ogallala Aquifer. 1731 01:27:20,668 --> 01:27:23,771 There are no clusters of missing around this property. 1732 01:27:23,805 --> 01:27:25,773 Nor are there clusters of missing 1733 01:27:25,807 --> 01:27:27,875 in the main body of the aquifer. 1734 01:27:29,110 --> 01:27:32,614 All the victims in this incident were elk hunting. 1735 01:27:33,314 --> 01:27:34,949 Each was alone. 1736 01:27:34,983 --> 01:27:39,187 Two of the hunters in Wyoming observed a UFO. 1737 01:27:39,220 --> 01:27:41,656 Canines could never pick up a scent. 1738 01:27:41,689 --> 01:27:45,593 A UFO in Washington was observed taking an elk. 1739 01:27:45,627 --> 01:27:49,664 Carl Higdon observed elk on a UFO. 1740 01:27:50,531 --> 01:27:52,967 Only one victim was ever found. 1741 01:27:53,001 --> 01:27:55,703 That was Carl Higdon who believed he was returned 1742 01:27:55,737 --> 01:27:57,672 because he had a vasectomy. 1743 01:27:58,706 --> 01:28:01,843 Let's not forget the first missing person case. 1744 01:28:01,876 --> 01:28:05,146 Ray Salmen from Harrison Lake, British Columbia. 1745 01:28:05,179 --> 01:28:06,648 Ray and his wife had seen UFOs 1746 01:28:06,681 --> 01:28:08,750 in the British Columbia forest in the past. 1747 01:28:09,350 --> 01:28:10,752 Ray was a hunter. 1748 01:28:10,785 --> 01:28:12,286 He was German. 1749 01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:15,223 He was camped adjacent to a lake. 1750 01:28:15,256 --> 01:28:17,392 Canines never picked up a scent. 1751 01:28:17,425 --> 01:28:20,428 His clothes and rifle were found on a beach. 1752 01:28:20,461 --> 01:28:22,930 He disappeared, was never found. 1753 01:28:22,964 --> 01:28:27,635 It's another incident that is an exact match to the Wyoming cases. 1754 01:28:27,669 --> 01:28:34,142 As incredible as it sounds, you have to start wondering what is happening here. 1755 01:28:34,175 --> 01:28:35,543 There's nowhere to turn 1756 01:28:35,576 --> 01:28:38,513 and I don't think we left many stones unturned. 1757 01:28:38,546 --> 01:28:42,517 DAVID: Frustration and fear turns to anger, anger to loss of hope. 1758 01:28:42,550 --> 01:28:45,553 As an investigator, you do your due diligence. 1759 01:28:45,586 --> 01:28:48,356 If you can't provide closure in a traditional sense, 1760 01:28:48,389 --> 01:28:49,957 and the incredible or paranormal 1761 01:28:49,991 --> 01:28:52,360 may be tied to the disappearance, 1762 01:28:52,393 --> 01:28:53,995 how do you explain that to a grieving family 1763 01:28:54,028 --> 01:28:56,097 that we might be dealing with something 1764 01:28:56,130 --> 01:28:59,801 that is just beyond the normal and the extreme 1765 01:28:59,834 --> 01:29:02,036 that leads to unknown consequences? 1766 01:29:03,604 --> 01:29:06,140 It puts me in a difficult situation. 1767 01:29:06,174 --> 01:29:08,109 Puts you in a difficult situation. 1768 01:29:08,142 --> 01:29:11,612 When you have families that are missing a loved one, 1769 01:29:11,646 --> 01:29:14,549 -I can't go tell them this. -Exactly. Exactly. 1770 01:29:14,582 --> 01:29:16,651 -Who's gonna believe me? -Yeah. 1771 01:29:16,684 --> 01:29:22,190 Um, yeah, you can't because it's... it's unprovable. 1772 01:29:22,223 --> 01:29:25,660 It's a purely in a physical world, 1773 01:29:25,693 --> 01:29:28,463 it's just not provable. 1774 01:29:28,496 --> 01:29:29,997 DAVID: Yet eyewitnesses' reports 1775 01:29:30,031 --> 01:29:32,066 of unexplained events in the skies 1776 01:29:32,100 --> 01:29:34,001 are increasing exponentially. 1777 01:29:34,035 --> 01:29:36,804 DAVID: How many calls do you think you get a year? 1778 01:29:36,838 --> 01:29:42,810 Uh, I would say between 30 and 100 per day, typically. 1779 01:29:42,844 --> 01:29:45,780 So saying rough around figures 1780 01:29:45,813 --> 01:29:49,484 somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 calls a year. 1781 01:29:49,517 --> 01:29:50,952 DAVID: And the conviction and credibility 1782 01:29:50,985 --> 01:29:52,587 of those who have witnessed them 1783 01:29:52,620 --> 01:29:55,056 is unnerving, to say the least. 1784 01:29:55,089 --> 01:29:58,392 Believe it or not, I just know what I saw. 1785 01:29:58,426 --> 01:30:01,763 A lot of truths are really experiential. 1786 01:30:01,796 --> 01:30:04,332 DAVID: Elk hunters of German heritage are being taken 1787 01:30:04,365 --> 01:30:07,401 in specific regions in North America. 1788 01:30:07,435 --> 01:30:10,738 Witnesses corroborate bizarre occurrences in the sky, 1789 01:30:10,772 --> 01:30:13,508 directly related to these incidents. 1790 01:30:13,541 --> 01:30:17,078 What's left are the words of those who have lost so much 1791 01:30:17,111 --> 01:30:19,614 and those who returned to share their stories. 1792 01:30:22,614 --> 01:30:26,614 Preuzeto sa www.titlovi.com 145489

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