All language subtitles for Couples Therapy (2019) - S03E16 - 316 (1080p AMZN WEB-DL x265 Silence)_track3_[eng]

Upbeat doo-wop music.

You take a little boy.

And you take a little girl.

Who got their hearts on fire.

In a wonderful world.

Hoo!

Put them all together.

Any kind of weather.

What have you got?

You've got love.

You've got love.

Now you take a starry night.

And a big yellow moon.

You've got your radio going.

With a real groovy tune.

Oh!

Put them all together.

Any kind of weather.

What have you got?

How was your trip?

Oh my gosh!

- So amazing!
- - Yeah?

- I'm beaming.
- - Aw...

It was, like, the best,
like, two and a half weeks ever.

- We had a great time.
- That's...

Wonderful.

- Yeah.
- - Yeah.

- Wonderful to hear.
- - Mm-hm.

You're bringing it with you.

- Yeah.
- - Mm-hm.

We had a lot of fun!

Like, I just feel like we
were laughing non-stop,

just, like,
seeing so much, like,

felt so lucky to have
this experience together,

and just...

I just felt like I was sitting
in the catbird seat with you.

Yeah.

That's true.

I think it's really
easy to get in your head.

Or at least I get in
my head, you know,

just thinking about whether this
partnership has a foundation of

something that is...

real?

And so it was so
nice to just, like,

be with you and to have so much
of all of that just kind of fade

away, and for it to be... for
it to be just pure experience.

Yeah.

No, I... I know
what you feel like.

Right?

I think that's why,
when we got back,

- I felt so bombarded...
- - Mm-hm.

With the pain that
we have caused each other.

Like, I'll just be in a
really good moment with her,

and I'll remember...

like, you know...

- the affair.
- Like, I'll remember that.

Mm-hm.

And there is a feeling

where I'm almost hesitant.

Hesitant to trust
something in yourself?

Hesitant to trust
something in myself...

to... trust something in her...

Mm-hm.

I guess my thing
is, like, Orna, like,

I don't know if this is
something that can heal in

me.

I wanna fix it;
Like, I wanna cure it,

you know?

So that I can fully,
like, 100 percent,

like, be all in
like I used to be.

I have some thoughts on that,
but I wanna hear both of you...

think about it.

Like, how do you work with that?

Like, all sorts of breaches
happened between the two of you.

Mm.

And how do you arrive
at some sense of trust,

I guess?

It's weird 'cause I want her
to commit to something that she,

I don't think, feels
comfortable committing to,

which is that she
won't cheat on me again.

Well, I just feel
like you keep wanting me to make

blanket promises...

forever...

like we used to.

And that doesn't
feel very fair to me,

if I'm being totally honest.

Um, it doesn't sound
very realistic to me.

I don't know.

So, I mean, this event that
happened between the two of you,

it exposed you to
all sorts of things,

right?

It exposed you to sides of
Kristi that you cannot unsee.

Yeah.

So now you know her better.

It exposed you to something
about the world and about

yourself that you
didn't know before...

which you cannot unsee.

So there's a lot of things to
kind of reorganize your view of

yourself and the world that
is, in addition to painful,

also a source of growth...

and, ultimately, love.

And that goes against this kind
of attempt to make you the same.

It's like loving the cracks.

I think, for me, like, I'm...

I'm loving Kristi's differences.

But it's hard for
me to reconcile...

- Mm-hm.
- What happened,

because I can't
believe that that Kristi...

Mm-hm.

Is this Kristi,
because if I told her,

- "This will hurt me..."
- Mm-hm.

- "This will destroy me..."
- Mm-hm.

She will do it, or she will not
put up guardrails to not do it.

- That's terrifying.
- Mm-hm.

And, like,
sometimes I think about,

like, "Could I have
an affair right now?"

On you?"

I don't think I could!

Keep going.

You couldn't because...?

Because, like, I
would feel so bad, like,

hurting you!

Mm-hm.

I have lots of
thoughts, but where are you?

It's funny to
hear you say, like...

"I could never do what you did

because of how it
would hurt you."

And what I've tried to
convey to you before

is space for the idea that
maybe it wasn't about you.

Like, it was not
about you at all.

I've told you before that I
wasn't even thinking of you.

And for me, that
experience was, like,

so powerful because that was

really the only time...

in my life where I can
look back and say, like...

"Only I owned
myself in that moment."

Like, questions of...

duty or culture

or marriage

or identity...

As a woman, as a wife,
as whatever...

Like, all just...

were obliterated.

And so it's hard to talk
about that with you, though,

because...

how can something that
was so healing for me

be the thing that
hurt you the most?

But I think there's something
else that Brock seems to be

asking for... I don't know...

-
- Which is not an explanation...

but concern.

Like, yes, I do have
concern for...

Like, I don't... I just,
like, don't know!

It just feels like he just wants
to just beat me with this for

- the rest of my life!
- - Mm.

It feels like he just wants
to control the relationship...

- That's not...
- With this!

That's not what I want.

What are you looking for?

What has Kristi not...

given you?

Like, I almost feel
like I don't have...

like, as much... like, she
has more power than me...

Mm-hm.

Because she has
proven that she can, like...

She can, like, completely
forget about me in a moment...

Mm-hm.

- And do something for her...
- - Mm-hm.

And I ca... I don't
feel like I can do that.

Yeah.

You don't have
that kind of power.

- No.
- Right.

And that bothers me!

It's not even
like we share power.

Mm-hm.

I feel like I have less power.

Even, like, one time
when I asked you, like,

"Hey, like, I'd like
to explore, like,"

other ways of, like, you know,

doing our relationship,"
and it was like,

- "No, we're not."
- Mm-hm.

And since I don't have the
power to go do it on my own...

Mm-hm.

I am left at her mercy
for when she decides,

- "I need this for myself..."
- Mm-hm.

"Like...

- "Brock, compartment, boom."
- Mm-hm.

- And then I come back.
- - Yeah.

- Yeah.
- -

That's the
difference between you.

I know!

- I know that!
- - Mm-hm.

But it's like...

as you're saying to me, like,

"Well, that's it,
you're different"...

Mm-hm.

I wanna yell back, like,
"Well, what if I'm not?!"

Like, what if I'm stuck?!

"What if I'm just trapped?!"

quirky electronic music.

One of the
things that gets couples through

impasses the most is the
capacity of people to be

- accountable.
- - Right.

To hold up to the
responsibility for what they

have done.

At the same time, it's
excruciating for people to stand

in the space... I mean, we call
it "the space of being the bad"

- "object."
- Yeah.

Of being the person
who has harmed someone else.

It's an awful feeling

to stand in front of your
partner and really say,

"I've hurt you."

I still feel like I...

am questioning Sean's...

- movements.
- - Mm-hm.

Um, uh, you know,
who he's talking to,

emails, phone conversations,
and I don't know...

And this is in
reference to Sean's infidelity?

Yes.

For instance, he went on a
long bike ride for his birthday.

That was one of his
birthday gifts to himself.

Mm-hm.

And I felt myself thinking,

"Where is he at?"

Did he stop off somewhere?

"Is he meeting up
with someone else?"

Mm-hm.

Like, stuff like
that just, you know,

for some reason... I
know you're... you're kinda,

like, rolling your
eyes, I'm sure...

I'm not rolling my eyes,
I'm... I'm just... I'm listening,

'cause I understand what
triggers it and I get that I

earned this treatment
with my past behavior,

but...

I'm... like, babe, my
location settings are on.

If you wanna check my fitness...

Well, before we talk about
possible solutions,

you were saying, "I recognize
why you'd feel this way."

Yeah!

I'm... I get it!

I earned this scrutiny.

And if it's gonna
take me six months,

six years...

six lifetimes to prove to
you that I'm trustworthy,

I will continue to
hold myself accountable.

But I don't wanna keep
talking about it because...

it hurts!

Say something
about how it hurts.

I hurt my wife
thinking that I had a pass.

And it almost cost me my family.

Mm-hm.

So it's a painful
topic to talk about,

and we keep going back
to it, and it's like...

you trying to put a
dagger back in my chest?

Are you trying to put me
on... on edge about it again?

But how am I putting you on
edge about something you did?

Babe...

again...

it's a wound that I caused you.

Right, so I have a wound.

So how... how are you bleeding...

When the topic comes up?

Because every time you
wanna bring this subject up,

it's like you're trying to cut
me again and make it about that.

I have not satisfied your itch.

Meaning it brings up
feelings of inadequacy in you?

Yeah, it's like
what do I need to do?!

Is that what you're saying?

Like, what do I need to do?!

But you're getting
away from feelings.

It would be helpful to
know it in words of feelings.

It's a sinking, shitty feeling.

It's like, "Oh, let's talk
about how I hurt you again."

- Of inadequacy?
- How I'm shitty.

How I did a shitty thing.

It makes you feel
bad about yourself?

- Yeah!
- Oh, oh, okay.

Like, I had no
intentions of hurting you!

But I caused you
this great pain,

- and now I gotta...
- Sean...

- Relive it.
- Sean, it's...

Again, it's kind
of circling around,

but I think what
you're trying to say,

to Erica and to me, that
it makes you feel bad about

yourself.

Absolutely.

That's helpful to know...
Using the words to describe

the actual feeling.

Me and feelings aren't
something that are...

easy to discuss.

Right, but I don't
know if you're noticing,

when you talk about
your actual feelings...

- Mm-hm.
- It's really helpful.

Yeah.

- He's saying more now...
- Yeah.

About where he
lives with words that...

- Connect to feelings.
- Add up, yeah.

But you had... I think one of
the reasons that this could

happen is that your
attitude towards him changed.

Yeah.

I would say I did a bunch of
attempts to invite him out,

and some of the things worked
and a lot of the things didn't

work.

- Mm-hm.
- - Yeah.

And there was some moment
in the session where she was

saying, "How is it possible that
you're now being hurt when I'm"

the one you cheated on?!"

Right, yeah, "I'm the one with
the wound and you're bleeding."

- Yeah, yeah.
- "How are you bleeding?"

- Yeah.
- But it's totally possible!

Wait, but what... in
this case, you mean?

He feels so
failed, and so guilty,

and so... screwed somehow

that he really hurts!

I believe that he really hurts.

- Don't you?
- - Yeah.

Ethereal ambient music.

He wants to think
about himself as a good person.

Erica was asking him to
experience himself as hurtful.

For Sean, it's a wound
that evokes shame

and self-loathing.

I mean, it could be
related to ways in which he has,

over his lifetime,
felt not good enough.

- Let's talk about work.
- Mm-hm.

From what I understand,
Erica, you've been...

doubting Sean's
commitment to working,

based on what you've seen,

and you, Sean, it sounds to me
like you have responded to that

doubt by not sharing
a lot of information

because of what feels like
an undermining response.

I mean, if I get a job offer
and it's not a great fit for me,

I'm not like, "Hey,
this was presented to me."

- Mm-hm.
- Why not?

That would be...
That's a total win.

That's an accomplishment.

It's not a total win and an
accomplishment if it's not

something that I can take
and utilize for our success.

Is that because the two of you
have different opinions about

what is most
important right now?

I realize that I have
this very small window to

give my daughter as much time,
as much instruction,

as much energy to
prepare her for the world,

whereas Erica's kind of
resentful and mad at me for

getting to do that.

- Mm-hm.
- Mm-hm.

But at the same time, you've
been career-driven for a long

time, and those
successes mean a lot to you.

It's all I've ever had!

But that's what I'm
saying; I recognize that in you!

Me, on the other hand, all I've
ever had or all I've ever been

focused on is caring about
the people that I love

and that are important to me.

When you're talking, what
do you see on Erica's face?

I... see... doubt and concern.

Mm-hm.

How does that affect you, this
kind of facial expression of

doubt?

The same thing my mom did.

Oh.

Also doubting?

It was always,
"You can do better."

- Mm-hm.
- So...

So how do you
think it affected you?

I mean, it sucks!

It sucks to never
feel like you're enough.

Mm-hm.

So I've learned to
expect people to doubt me,

and I don't care!

And because I don't
give it any energy,

it doesn't bother me in the
way it probably did when I was

little.

Um, I would assume that you
probably are more affected than

you're aware of,

so let's try to tap
into that a little more.

I mean...

my mom was dealing with
the tale of two kids.

- There was me, the dyslexic one.
- Although very intelligent and

did very well in school up
until my dyslexia became...

the forefront issue.

Something as simple as me
not liking to read out loud...

Mm-hm.

Turned into my
mom holding me back,

even though I was
excelling in everything else.

And then by the time I was in
high school and my mom was sick

with cancer and I had
adult responsibilities,

it made me that much more
disconnected from people in my

- own age demographic, so...
- Yeah.

I've had to be
responsible, mature,

and an adult, but
at the same time,

treated like a child who
doesn't know how to take care of

themself.

Mm-hm.

So I have learned a long time
ago that the expectation is that

I'm somehow gonna fuck up.

Yeah.

Yeah, often, kids with
dyslexia, that's their plight.

- Mm-hm.
- Yeah.

So...

So you're saying that there's
kind of already a longstanding

gap between the outside
world and your experience...

Mm-hm.

That ultimately translates
into a style of communication

that keeps people away from you,

that keeps them at
a certain distance.

I mean...

You're not telling them
exactly what's going on.

I mean...

So one of the things that is
happening between the two of you

is that Erica is producing this
kind of doubt that you're so

- used to...
- Mm-hm.

You're saying
there's a life history of this,

and you're putting
up the deflectors,

but the deflectors, what they're
doing is they're promoting

people... Erica, sometimes me...

- Mm-hm.
- To doubt you...

Mm-hm.

Because you're not saying
what's actually going on,

and then you feel doubted...

and you put up deflectors,
and then Erica is like,

"What's goin' on?"

I mean, I learned a long
time ago that it's not about me.

I'm misunderstanding
how that's relevant.

- Yeah, what does that...
- Life!

It's not always gonna be
about... it's not about me!

People aren't always
gonna be concerned about me.

Is that a deflector
you're putting up right now?

It's not a deflector,
it's just my sense of reality.

I think she works very hard
at trying to understand me,

but even when I'm, like, saying,
"This doesn't work for me,"

it doesn't change the
way she goes about things.

Mm-hm.

It's "Let me keep trying to get
you to see it my way so that it"

- "can work for both of us."
- Mm-hm.

But you're saying that some of
the attempts to "understand" you

are not attempts
to understand you,

they're attempts
to influence you?

- Yes.
- - Got it.

So maybe that's good
feedback for you...

Mm.

About when you're trying to
just understand what Sean is

saying and when you're
having actually an attempt to

influence.

I don't think I
interpreted it as an influence

- until you said it.
- Mm-hm.

So I, now, will have to...

really conscientiously figure
out how to speak to you...

- Mm-hm.
- So I don't have that type of...

- vibe.
- I think that the...

If the two of you can figure
out a way to speak where you're

- offering more understanding...
- Mm-hm.

And you're putting more honest
communication on the table...

Not...

circling around but direct...

At least the communication
is about the real thing.

That okay?

I'm saying to you
I'm pretty direct.

No, that is not true.

- Thank you; It's not.
- Okay.

That is not true.

You both have to be a lot
clearer about what you're doing

with your speech.

Okay.

Heartwarming synth music.

So I got
your book recommendations.

Mm-hm.

And they were very lovely,
and I started one of the books.

Which one?

'Your Body's Not an Apology.'

Mm-hm.

I turned it on, and literally,
about three minutes into the

book, I'm driving this morning,

and I was like,
"I'm not gonna cry.

Like, I'm
totally not gonna cry."

What was...?

I think it was, like,
explaining the importance of,

like, uh, radical self-love.

You know, like, "I
love me regardless... ".

- Unconditionally.
- - Exactly.

And I was
thinking and I was like,

"Do I have that?"

And I think what
made me cry was that,

was I just like,
"I don't think so."

Mm-hm.

And then I brought
it back to these sessions.

I was like, "If I
can radically love me",

then I can allow Josh
to radically love me."

So that was my... that was
my epiphany this morning.

Wonderful!

That's a good one!

Thanks.

So...

Where are you, listening?

It's nice, yeah!

Initially, like, what I
wanted to speak about was,

like, I just feel like that she
wasn't committing to some of the

things that she said
she would commit to...

You know, some of, like, the
intimacy or the being close to

each other stuff... and
hearing that helps me to...

not excuse it but to...

understand that her process is
not what I think her process is.

Her process is what
it is for herself.

But there is a process.

Your fear is that
there's no process.

My fear is
that it's stagnant water.

I think a huge thing is, like, I
came in here looking for our sex

life to change.

She's still not initiating.

So although I can recognize
these positive moments,

it doesn't negate the
fact that I'm a human being,

and that I'm having
feelings that are negative.

What's your...

emotional response?

Um, I think that
there's... I don't know,

I don't... I don't
have a word for it,

but there's something
in there that's, like...

I don't know if it's the
way he's saying it or something

that's like...

Like, I feel like things are
happening in our relationship,

and you're kind of like,

"Yeah, that's awesome,
that's regular-degular."

That's not what I
said at all, though.

I completely acknowledged how
what you expressed here today

was important...
To me and to you.

I'm saying that this
is still important,

and I wanna make sure that
that is on... that is there!

So if you don't
want me to bring...

Hold on, Josh.

So what's your response?

Josh is
bringing up my shortcomings,

- right?
- - Mm-hm.

And so it's like I'm...

I feel like I don't bring
that energy to him, right?

In that way.

What is the essence of
the criticism you hear?

It's just not enough!

When he's like, "I just wanna
be... I wanna be more physically"

intimate, I want to
be these things,"

if I'm not, every
week, making progress,

is he gonna be like, "Oh,
well, this all was for nothing?"

- Like, "We failed?"
- Mm-hm.

Wh... what does that mean?

So you're stuck and paralyzed by

the weight of Josh's
disappointment?

Yeah, I guess.

And I guess the other
side of it is that Josh is...

paralyzed by the
weight of your...

not engaging in
the realm of agency.

- Yeah, inaction.
- - Yeah.

And it... what it seems like
to me is that the option is...

"So then, Natasha, it's on you!"

And so I'm like,
"If it is on me..."

those wins have to be the wins
that I would feel important...

- "That are important..."
- Mm-hm.

"Have to be just as
important to you!"

What does that look like?

What does it look like for
me to come in here today

and celebrate... for you, right?

'Cause...

I think I did, but I didn't.

I think what
happens is there's a way..

In which you're
coming across as...

maybe something like, "It's
great that you're doing the"

work...

"but the real important
thing is not happening."

Yeah.

- There we go!
- Yeah.

And that is... demoralizing.

I can understand how it
comes across that way.

I can understand that.

Like, I
understand the urgency as well!

I don't know how to do both.

- Like...
- I think it's my business.

I don't know how to...

I think that Orna said
something really important,

and that I have to
learn to be better at that,

because it's important, period.

What you went through
is important, period.

And my feelings don't
affect the importance of that.

And I think me saying "But,"
it kind of impeded upon that,

and that was
unfair, so I'm sorry.

And my feelings are my
feelings, and they exist,

but it doesn't change the fact
that I'm unbelievably happy,

- and that I love you very much.
- - Me too.

And that the work that
you're doing is important to me,

and it's important
to us and our family,

and I can't wait to
watch you do more of that,

and to be there and support
you in all of those moments.

Really!

I'm not crying!

I love you.

I feel like I felt ego leave me.

Mm-hm.

It hurt.

- It was an exorcism.
- -

twinkling synth music.

He's getting
increasingly able to

calm himself enough to give
her the space she needs.

It was extraordinary to see
it kind of just happen!

Yeah, yeah.

Um, and then, so interesting to
see how that completely shifted

the dynamic between them.

It was real progress.