All language subtitles for Couples Therapy (2019) - S03E10 - 310 (1080p AMZN WEB-DL x265 Silence)_track3_[eng]

- I'm a psychoanalyst.
- - Mm-hm.

So in the kind of
work that I tend to do,

I'm hoping to bring
couples into less kind of...

blaming the other person and
more kind of looking inward.

"What about me?"

Not "What about them?"

I know why I did what I did,

but if we're gonna talk
about the issue in our marriage,

it's not gonna be
found sitting in my lap.

Christine
happened upon one of my bags,

thought she saw something...

- Can we just say it?
- Can we get to the point?

No!

Oh, okay.

Something related to sex.

Not for us.

I feel like
garbage in that moment,

because I'm like, "This
person does not want me."

What do you want?!

Like, you liberated me,
now what?!

What am I supposed to be?!

No, I didn't
because you're not with me,

because you still fight
me on all this dumb shit!

Yes, I was upset.

- Stop, let me finish.
- - No, I'm not done!

I just feel like I
just want someone different!

Fuck this!

I'm... I'm gonna stop you guys.

I'm not the right
therapist for you guys.

I mean, why don't we go in?

I don't know.

You are so nervous!

I am nervous!

Okay.

Funky upbeat music.

Gotta get in the zone.

The zone of what?

Therapy.

Whoo...

I feel like I'm gonna
throw up and shit my pants.

I'm more nervous about
what is at risk here.

I mean, I have a lot to lose.

Jacques Lacan!

Who? Oh, Lacan!

- Jacques Lacan!
- Yeah!

- Yeah!
- That's right.

I thought you said "Chaka Khan."

- No.
- I was like, "Oh! Cool!"

No, we're not
getting therapy based on the

theories of Chaka Khan.

Well, I thought...

"Jacques Lacan" sounds like
"Chaka Khan" a little bit.

Tell me something good, yeah...

That's... that's...

Tell me about your mother.

Oh my gosh...

cool theme music.

Hi.

- Hi!
- Hello, hi!

Oh my gosh!

- Hi!
- How's it goin'?

We got married really young.

Mm-hm.

- So...
- How young?

I was 21 and she was 18.

Mm-hm.

She actually turned
19 on our honeymoon.

- Uh-huh.
- Mm-hm.

Which was fun; We went to
a resort and everyone was

looking at us like,
"Kids aren't allowed here."

I know, yes.

And we were like, "What?"

- "We're actually married."
- Yes.

We, uh, got
married in a very, um,

strict religious
kind of framework.

What's...?

- Mormon.
- We were Mormon.

- I see, mm-hm.
- - Yeah.

So seven years into our
marriage is when I kind of...

Is when my faith crisis started.

It began with women's
issues in the church.

It really bothered me
that women weren't ordained.

You know, that led to me
thinking harder about,

like, historical things in the
church that really bothered me

um, you know,
polygamy being one of them...

Mm-hm.

And the overt sexism of that.

And after I left college, I
was slowly coming into political

consciousness for,
like, the first time ever.

Gradually, that just...
It was a house of cards.

How were the two of you talking
at the time about all of this?

There was a lot
of tension because,

you know, as she gradually left,

I... stayed.

And I had known a lot of
the issues of the church...

I had known them
for a long time...

And I had just kind of, like,
rationalized them away.

Mm-hm.

And she was like, "What
the hell is your problem?"

Like, what are you
doing still going?"

She kind of saw
that as a betrayal...

- of her, I think.
- In what way?

I think the church... the church
hurt her in a lot of ways.

An analogy is,
like, somebody that,

you know, does
something terrible to her.

Mm-hm.

How do I still go have lunch
with that person every Sunday?

Mm-hm.

Like, why would you do that?

For five years.

But what's your answer?

My answer is that I
couldn't leave the church for

her.

I couldn't!

Like, it was like, "No,
like, I need to do this for me",

and the more you
push and yell at me,

"the less I'm
gonna want to do it."

We just couldn't get to a place
where the fighting stopped.

What's... what's your...

Which, to me, felt like... like
I was screaming into a chasm,

trying to get you to hear me...

and, like, be with me
and, like...

side with me.

But that was a really lonely
place for me to be for a really

long time.

Yeah.

Like, for us, both of our
families have been Mormon for

- generations.
- - Yeah.

And so you can't just minimize
it to a simple faith difference.

Mm-hm.

It is... it's just
bone deep, you know?

- Yeah.
- Deeper than bone deep.

- Intergenerationally bone deep.
- - Yeah, yeah, uh-huh.

Makes it hard to leave.

- Yeah.
- Mm-hm.

But that, like, kind of
ended when I left the church and

there was this period of
really great connection.

And now, we're in a
place where our marriage

is kind of foundationless,

and so we're kind of
just having to rebuild

and see if... if our
partnership is what we want.

You know?

What... you... you
gonna say something?

No, I'm listening to you.

Oh.

- You look upset.
- - Yeah.

It's just...

It sucks to...

to just now... Brock is... what?

You're turning 37, I'm
turning 34 this year.

Yeah.

For the first time in
our lives to be asking,

"What does love mean to us?"

What do we want out
of our relationship?

What does
partnership look like to us?

"Who are we?"

Like, it sucks to
have to do that.

Mm-hm.

It feels like an unnatural
just progression of things to,

like, make the decision to
get married and to have to,

like, leave a cult and
then do all of this?!

It's like you have to
do it all backwards!

You feel robbed.

Yeah!

I grieve; I really do feel
like so much was taken from me

of my life, and now, I'm
having to start from scratch

with the pieces of an old life
that wasn't authentic to me.

Moody synth music.

This is so cute.

Are we supposed to go in?

I don't know.

Are we supposed to sit?

I don't know.

Huh.

Knock.

- Hello!
- - Hi.

How are you?

We weren't sure if we
were supposed to walk in.

Yeah, of course! Welcome.

Oh, hi, sweetness, hello!

- How are you?
- I'm Orna.

- Hello, Orna, I'm Josh.
- Lovely to meet you.

Oh, wait.

It's lovely to
meet you; Natasha.

- Natasha.
- - Nice to meet you.

- And?
- - Josh.

Josh.

Come in.

I guess if I was
to sum up why we're here,

um, we just recently
had a little baby boy.

Mm-hm.

And our, uh, emotional and
physical intimacy for a while

has taken a tank.

Um...

and I think that pretty
much sums it up on my part.

So what happened
with your intimacy?

- Sexually, like what...
- It doesn't exist.

And have the two of you talked
about it and tried to...

problem solve around it or...?

Not until very recently,
where we've literally...

Through the
recommendation of both of our

- individual therapists...
- - Yeah.

- Scheduled sex.
- - Right.

We did it.

Right?

We tried.

We went on a date.

We didn't do it
on the date time.

Just to... and why not
on the day of the date?

We were like...

- Not "we."
- Okay, I...

Don't include me in that, yo.

We had a, uh, babysitter, and
then we got home and then we

were tired.

- Like, it was our first time...
- I wasn't tired.

- I was.
- - Okay.

Yeah.

- I was.
- - Okay.

Sorry.

So...

But you're saying soon after...?

And then we did do it,
like, a few days later!

It was awkward, like you said.

That was the exact
word you used.

I don't remember
calling the sex "awkward."

I don't remember saying that.

Maybe that
wasn't the adjective you used...

But what's your understanding
of what's going on there?

So I went through this period
where I refused to even try

anymore.

I was so resigned; Like,
does she even get any of that

- energy from me anymore...
- Because you were rejected?

Because I was like,
"It's making me feel bad."

Yeah, I started to blame
myself for the... I was like,

"Is it my performance?

Is it how I look? Is it..."

You know, all these narratives
I was playing in my head,

it was so unhealthy.

And I was very honest
with her and I was like,

"Like, this is taking
a huge toll on me."

Mm-hm.

And I just got
back, "I'm sorry."

That's all I got back!

You know what I mean?

What... so, hold on.

So what would you add to that?

I know if I say, "Well, hey, I'm
not feeling great about myself,"

that's not a one-time,
like, this week sort of thing,

so it feels shitty to
talk about all the time.

Like, "Hey, I'm not
really feeling it because..."

I don't like me."

Like, I feel like that's...

You feel like that's...?

That's a
really tough place to go.

- In yourself?
- Yeah.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

What's the "Oh my God?"

I'm just, like,

getting emotional about it.

It sucks!

It fuckin' sucks but...

I also suppress those
feelings because I'm like,

"I know you feel shitty too!"

But sharing that is,
like... it's difficult.

- It's...
- What's...

bothering you?

Um, when I met him, I was, like,

in this, like, most...

confident time in my life.

Um...

I was a really young mom, so
I had my daughter when I was,

like, 18.

So I was a mom for, like, all
of those years when you're,

like, you know, in college and
partying and doing all those fun

things.

And so it wasn't until I was
much later in my 20s that I was,

like, you know, able to
just explore who I was.

And then I met him, and
he's super confident,

super intelligent man, and...

that rubbed off on me,

and it felt good,
it felt really good,

and it sort of reassured
how I felt about myself.

Mm-hm.

And then, like,
the closer we get,

I'm like, "Maybe
I'm not the, like",

super confident, you know,
interesting person that I

"thought I was," because that
was something I was trying on.

Mm-hm.

And, like, when I
see "us" as a couple,

I'm like, "Wow, you bring, like,
all the... you bring all the good"

shit, and I'm just, like..."

I feel like a
sidekick, you know?

Just, like, here for the ride.

How is it for you...

to hear Natasha say
what she's saying?

You know, it doesn't... it
doesn't make sense to me,

because I see so many
amazing things about her.

My life has gotten exponentially
better since I've been with you.

So for me, I don't...

I don't understand
why she feels that way,

but I understand
that she does...

- Mm-hm.
- And I wish I could help.

Cool funky music.

- Hi!
- Hello!

Hi!

So...

- How... how do we get started?
- -I don't know!

Tell me!

Okay, um, so we are here,
uh, because Nadine has...

We... we need to
transition into polyamory,

and Nadine is
oriented as polyamorous...

Sorry, "we need to?"

Well, not "need to."

Well, there is a need in the
sense of our relationship...

will not continue if we don't.

Um...

there's a lot of love
in the relationship, of course,

but I think we need to get
to a place where we are

both comfortable in a
relationship dynamic that works

for both of us.

I'm kind of tempted
to break it down immediately;

- I'm, like, jumping right in.
- Please!

Please, go, go, yeah.

So I'm just curious
about this use of "need to."

Mm-hm.

It sounds like the hope
is that it will solve something,

but what will it solve?

Why does the
relationship "need it?"

So, through time, I've
always admired couples that were

non-monogamous, and I've always
just been drawn to it and felt

like that was more
authentic to who I was.

Mm-hm.

Now, that's taken a long time
for me to be able to even admit

that to myself, to
admit it to a partner,

and even if I knew
it on some level,

when we first met, I was so
taken by her that I was...

Like, my knee-jerk
reaction always is to, like,

hide, suppress for
whatever person or love or

whatever thing.

And then, I had, um...

mushrooms... I had
taken... I had had a psychedelic

experience that kind of, um...

I met Little Nadine.

- In that journey?
- In that experience.

Uh-huh.

And I realized she was so
sad and in so much pain,

and...

and I feel like I was
awakened to myself,

and then it, like,
shifted everything for me.

And from that
moment forward, um,

I was, like, on a
mission of, like,

truth and liberation
for myself, you know?

Because I realized... I
didn't even know I was gay.

Like, it took me a long time.

I know, I know!

I know.

So I was so repressed,
like, you cannot imagine.

Um, sorry, I'm just catching up
to the way you process things.

You're talking about
difficult things and laughing.

- So bring me...
- This is my coping.

But you're both doing that.

Yeah, I have a
healthy sense of humor,

and I think I
needed it growing up,

so I think it's something that
we use as a tool between us.

I would also say that some
things are kind of funny in

terms of...

Yeah!

Like, how much we overreact.

We met once, and
Nadine was like,

"I have every intention to be
in a relationship with you..."

Oh my God, I hate
when you say that.

I was like, "Whoa!"

I truly believe
there's something kind of divine

between us.

Christine was the first,
like, woman that I had,

like, romantic... like, a
desire for a relationship,

- like that kind of future.
- - Mm-hm.

There was just a space, for
the first time in my life,

- of, like, unconditional love.
- Mm-hm.

And in that unconditional love,
I felt free enough to...

- come forth.
- Mm-hm.

But starting
polyamory, to sustain myself,

to have a relationship, this is
something that I think needs to

- happen for myself.
- - Mm-hm.

What about you, Christine?

Well, ideologically, I'm in
full support of polyamory;

I think it's
delicious and amazing.

But three months
into our relationship,

she was like, "I
think we need to open."

Like, I don't really think
there's anything you can do."

And I go into the bathroom,
I get into a fetal position,

- I'm, like, hyperventilating...
- Wailing.

I feel like I'm blacking out.

I almost don't
remember all of it.

Yeah, I was just...

so devastated.

I was like, "I'm
not good enough",

I'm inadequate."

But the reason I
was open to open:

I have a lot of big aspirations.

Like, I feel like
I have a calling.

What is your calling?

So, my family's
from the Middle East.

Where?

We're from the West
Bank of Palestine.

You're from the West Bank?

- Mm-hm.
- Mm-hm.

Where are they
from in the West Bank?

Uh, we're from a
city called Ramallah,

which is the de facto
Palestinian capital.

Both my parents were
born in Jerusalem.

Yeah.

- You know I'm Israeli.
- Yes.

- Yeah.
- Mm-hm.

- I know Ramallah.
- - Yeah.

Oh! Have you ever been?

- No.
- - Oh, okay.

Well, next time,
you should come visit.

- Okay.
- It's a really wonderful place.

Okay, I might have to go
through some brutal checkpoints

- but, uh, yeah.
- - Yeah.

Um, so we moved
there when I was three,

and we lived through
an uprising there.

Then we came back here, and I
think that really shaped me,

and seeing what it's like not to
have privilege when I'm living

in the West Bank under
military occupation,

and so I feel an obligation to
take my privilege here and to

recreate a world where all of us
can live with the same dignity

- and respect.
- Mm-hm.

So I wanna do global health.

I plan to work in war
zones, and not in war zones,

and everywhere.

I don't expect a partner to drop
everything and follow me around,

so I thought of
open out of necessity,

- not out of desire.
- - Mm-hm.

And, um, when it's out of
desire, it hurts my feelings.

Mm-hm.

And so, I think I'm trying to
figure out are these the growing

pains of shifting into a
different relationship dynamic?

Is it the natural
discomfort of doing polyamory?

Or is this something that just
isn't going to work between us

as a couple?

Mm-hm.

Glittering synth music

Nadine is the one that
first pushed them into exploring

non-monogamy.

Mm-hm.

It's, like, part
of their generation;

- They're, like...
- Yeah.

They're exploring, like...

all aspects of what
it means to be queer.

- And not only queer, to be...
- - Young and...

To kind of...

queer the traditional
format of what a couple is.

You know, these old-time
heteronormative structures,

there's a great loss of faith in
that in the younger generations;

They've kind of seen through it.

But some of these structures,
like the structure of marriage,

are there to reflect certain
anxieties that we all have,

like who's gonna
take care of us?

How do we get to
feel safe in the world?

If you're not relying on,
like, a long-standing tradition,

you have to
invent something new.

I mean, some people ask,
"Are we truly monogamous?"

Do we wanna be monogamous?

Are we allowed to love other
people and still have a primary

"lover?"

All these things are
big, philosophical,

existential questions about
what does it mean to be in a

relationship?

Uplifting electronic music.

Hello!

- Hello.
- Hello.

Hey.

My marriage, my life, my family,

- I'm probably, like, 80/20.
- - What?

80/20 that my family is awesome,

I love my family, it's
everything that I want.

And then there's the 20
percent that is just dysfunct;

There's some stuff that we
need to work on, right?

Mm-hm.

I, for whatever reason, tend
to focus on the 20 percent.

So what I definitely
need help with is...

getting out of that
20 percent space.

Mm-hm.

So, uh...

Well, let's get
into it immediately.

Sean has cheated on me,

- multiple times...
- Oh.

Throughout our marriage.

And this has hit
a head last year.

So this has been
going on since 2016.

But you did not know?

I had n... I... oblivious.

So I am beyond enraged.

And I guess I try to then
tap into my 80 percent,

but I'm off track.

Big time.

What would be "on track?"

I guess to be a
loving, supportive wife.

Can you put a voodoo spell on me
to extract it from my brain or...

Or a mantra?

Like "Let's pretend
it never happened" or...?

I don't... I
don't... I don't know.

Interesting.

So the problem is that
you're not managing to...

erase this piece of information?

Is it?

Um, I mean, you and I have
complete and totally difference

of opinions about...

my activities in
the first place,

because for me, Erica and I
are... we're sexual people,

and we've been open and
experimenting sexually.

Meaning you have
an open marriage?

We don't have an open
marriage, we've had plenty of

conversations that would
lead me to believe that,

you know, what I did wasn't...

It was kind of no harm, no foul.

I was in Colombia.

I was telling her how much
I missed her and how much I

desired her physically.

Her response was, "I thought you
would have taken care of that"

"already," because we're in a
country where you could go right

down the street and find
somebody for 40 dollars to...

But he took it as
that, versus masturbation.

You hired a woman to be in the
home for a certain situation.

Erica, we're not
talking about that.

- So, but...
- We're just not,

because it's like you're...
You're trying to portray this

in some situation where
you're setting out to...

But you don't want Erica
to talk about something?

If she wants to talk
about her feelings,

by all means!

But we're, like... what, are
we talking about particulars?

- No!
- - Why not?

What's the problem with
letting it unfold here so I can

understand what the two of
you are struggling with?

Every time we get
into an argument,

the catalyst is her wanting
to talk about it some more.

And after two and a half months
of her making accusations of me

cheating and cheating and
cheating and cheating and

cheating, and me responding,
"I'm not cheating on you,

I'm not having an affair on
you, there is nobody else"...

He made me feel
like I was crazy.

Mm-hm.

- So then, she said...
- In my feeling.

"I feel like
you're gaslighting me."

And then she asked me
the appropriate question,

"Have you ever
stepped out on me?"

And I said, "Yes."

But there's nobody that I've
been involved with in New York.

City or anything like that.

It was literally
in other countries.

- No, well...
- Or other states.

I'm sorry, I'm
not understanding.

For my activities...

I was in different states
or different countries.

I was being
selfish, I was doin' me,

and did what I did.

And then, like, that's it.

Like, that's all I get.

- That's... and it's done.
- - Mm-hm.

There's not more to it!

Well, I guess I have
to ask how the two of you

think of monogamy, loyalty...

What is your actual belief?

I do not care what Erica
does when I am not around.

What I don't know
will not piss me off.

So your mentality is...

- I've been cheated on.
- - It's...

But is that even cheating?

You're saying you want an open
marriage as long as it's "Don't"

ask, don't tell?"

I've been cheated on, but
what I'm saying is that...

you can't be
everything for everybody.

Okay, but I'm asking you more
specifically what are your views

on monogamy, open marriage...?

What I'm saying is I
live for my happiness.

That's still very abstract.

Okay, so...

So it's really hard
to get what you're actually

thinking.

And maybe you're not clear.

My views are that
people who are in my life are in

my life because
they make me happy.

And as far as...

I'm sorry, Sean, let's...

I'm so confused.

Do you know that you're being...

I think monogamy is a farce.

You think what?

I think monogamy is a farce; I
think it's something that too

- many people try to use...
- Okay, so say that.

As a control
mechanism over their partner.

I think if you
love your partner,

you want them to be happy.

And I want you to be happy.

I'll answer the
monogamy question.

- Yeah, what are your...?
- So I grew up in the Midwest.

Monogamy's always been
what should be applied.

But I've always historically
been turned on by so many

different people, why would I
want to pigeonhole myself with

one person when I
can have a plethora.

Now, I did meet Sean, and
I met a man that I said,

"You know what?"

He's intimate and sexy, he's
very open and willing to do

experimental stuff and
step out of the box.

- "I want all this to myself."
- Mm-hm.

So monogamy to me
is, yes, I want Sean.

Now, we have had
threesomes before...

Mm-hm.

With different women, but those
encounters have been discussed

and agreed upon.

So what would you
be comfortable with?

As far as, like, him
stepping out on his own?

- Mm-hm.
- I wouldn't.

Okay.

It just makes me very furious.

You were that angry and
that controlling before,

so what's different?

Like...

But Erica is
saying she did not sign up for

non-monogamy.

She's angry, upset,
betrayed by what you've done.

Mm-hm.

What's your reaction?

It seems like your
reaction is "Eh!"

Mm-hm.

My reaction isn't "Eh,"
my reaction is that...

That's what you're conveying.

You sound utterly dismissive.

Utterly.

I'm saying that these behaviors
that she's assigning blame

existed long before she had
any knowledge of my activities.

His rhetoric has
the form of gaslighting

all the time.

I mean, literally,
he says things like,

"Well, she didn't ask
the right question."

She asked if I'm
having an affair.

"I wasn't having an affair."

Uh-huh, "I just fucked someone."

Yeah.

And then he said, "Well, it
was in a different state!"

- Literally.
- Literally!

Yeah.

I'm like, "I don't know
what universe I'm in right now."

I was like, "What's
your view on monogamy?"

He's like, "I wanna be happy."

- Great, me too.
- - Yeah.

I can't, like, get
any straight answer from him.

It was like madness.

Do you get the feeling
that he knows what he's doing?

Or he's just in an automatic
strategy of evasion...

He's just getting out of the way
of something that's gonna catch

him?

It wasn't clear; I was
very confused and frustrated.

Yeah.

But I feel like I'm
in a certain kind of dilemma.

How do you conduct therapy
when people are not committed to

- truth and honesty?
- Right, absolutely.

I don't know what to do!

Funky music