Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:35,025 --> 00:00:39,125
synced by skull
2
00:00:40,625 --> 00:00:45,754
[Peter Ludlow] "We explore,
and you call us criminals.
3
00:00:47,866 --> 00:00:51,662
We seek after knowledge,
and you call us criminals.
4
00:00:53,430 --> 00:00:56,641
We exist without skin color,
without nationality,
5
00:00:56,725 --> 00:00:59,102
without religious bias,
6
00:01:00,645 --> 00:01:02,439
and you call us criminals.
7
00:01:03,482 --> 00:01:06,777
You build atomic bombs,
you wage wars, you murder,
8
00:01:06,860 --> 00:01:08,403
cheat, and lie to us,
9
00:01:08,487 --> 00:01:10,489
and try to make us believe
it's for our own good."
10
00:01:12,699 --> 00:01:14,743
...My fellow Americans.
11
00:01:14,826 --> 00:01:16,870
"Yet we're the criminals.
12
00:01:19,247 --> 00:01:21,041
Yes, I'm a criminal.
13
00:01:21,416 --> 00:01:23,585
My crime is that of curiosity.
14
00:01:25,170 --> 00:01:27,172
My crime is that
of judging people
15
00:01:27,255 --> 00:01:30,342
by what they say and think,
not by what they look like.
16
00:01:31,301 --> 00:01:34,012
My crime is that
of outsmarting you,
17
00:01:35,013 --> 00:01:37,432
something that you'll never
forgive me for.
18
00:01:39,392 --> 00:01:42,020
I'm a hacker,
and this is my manifesto.
19
00:01:44,314 --> 00:01:48,443
You may stop this individual,
but you can't stop us all."
20
00:01:50,362 --> 00:01:53,990
That is a powerful
piece of writing, because
21
00:01:54,825 --> 00:01:57,619
it is so fundamentally
revolutionary.
22
00:01:57,702 --> 00:02:00,664
And I really like that part
in there where he says,
23
00:02:00,747 --> 00:02:02,749
"My real crime is that
of outsmarting you."
24
00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:05,127
And that's what
they really hate.
25
00:02:05,210 --> 00:02:09,172
I mean, that's why they really
hate Aaron Swartz, right?
26
00:02:09,381 --> 00:02:11,216
'Cause he's too fucking smart.
27
00:02:11,299 --> 00:02:14,845
Ed Snowden, another great
example, too fucking smart.
28
00:02:15,095 --> 00:02:20,259
[drums beating]
29
00:03:15,657 --> 00:03:18,327
[Peter Ludlow] Information
is the new gold.
30
00:03:18,535 --> 00:03:19,995
It's the new oil.
31
00:03:21,580 --> 00:03:22,873
It's like diamonds.
32
00:03:23,957 --> 00:03:25,751
It's worth trillions
of dollars,
33
00:03:26,209 --> 00:03:28,211
and if you control that,
you control wealth,
34
00:03:28,295 --> 00:03:29,671
you control power.
35
00:03:30,632 --> 00:03:32,885
You don't even have
to be an info tech company.
36
00:03:32,968 --> 00:03:35,304
You could be an oil company
for example.
37
00:03:36,638 --> 00:03:40,017
You want to control information
about climate change
38
00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:43,103
and induce the belief in people
39
00:03:43,479 --> 00:03:45,814
that climate change science
is a fraud.
40
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,567
Because if you can
control that information,
41
00:03:48,650 --> 00:03:50,652
you could save yourselves,
you know,
42
00:03:50,736 --> 00:03:53,363
billions and trillions
of dollars in regulation.
43
00:03:57,075 --> 00:03:59,077
I'll just say this,
we've been here before.
44
00:04:01,271 --> 00:04:04,732
[Tim Wu] Every new media
goes through a similar cycle.
45
00:04:05,024 --> 00:04:07,861
Where at the beginning
it's decentralized, it's open,
46
00:04:08,027 --> 00:04:09,320
it's very culturally dynamic,
47
00:04:09,404 --> 00:04:11,030
all kinds of things
are going on,
48
00:04:11,239 --> 00:04:12,782
a little chaotic,
unpredictable.
49
00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:15,994
Invariably, this is true
in film,
50
00:04:16,202 --> 00:04:18,246
true of the telephone industry,
radio industry,
51
00:04:18,329 --> 00:04:20,665
it begins to consolidate
and centralize.
52
00:04:21,583 --> 00:04:22,542
And in some ways that
53
00:04:22,625 --> 00:04:24,460
feels like a very good
development at the time,
54
00:04:25,795 --> 00:04:28,548
but then only later
do we realize what we've lost.
55
00:04:30,817 --> 00:04:33,194
[Lawrence Lessig] The Internet
has the chance to be a platform
56
00:04:34,112 --> 00:04:35,822
that enables
an extraordinary amount
57
00:04:35,905 --> 00:04:37,657
of innovation and creativity,
58
00:04:37,740 --> 00:04:42,954
and democratic organization
in a way that we've not seen
59
00:04:43,037 --> 00:04:45,248
for more than 100 years.
60
00:04:46,291 --> 00:04:48,459
Increasingly, we want
to have our own blog,
61
00:04:48,543 --> 00:04:50,795
we want to tweet
about the candidate
62
00:04:50,878 --> 00:04:53,423
and engage in arguments
about the positions
63
00:04:53,506 --> 00:04:55,508
and go out and organize
our own meet ups
64
00:04:55,591 --> 00:04:57,468
around political action.
65
00:04:57,552 --> 00:05:00,638
And that's because
the technology
has encouraged us,
66
00:05:00,805 --> 00:05:04,392
once again, to become owners
in the political process.
67
00:05:05,935 --> 00:05:09,314
We need to recognize
that the freedom here
68
00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,483
is embedded in the technology,
69
00:05:12,567 --> 00:05:15,278
and we have to protect
the technology
70
00:05:15,361 --> 00:05:17,238
if we wanna be protecting
this freedom.
71
00:05:24,996 --> 00:05:26,831
[Tim Wu] It all starts
with my mother buying
us a computer
72
00:05:26,914 --> 00:05:28,082
when we were, like,
nine years old.
73
00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:31,210
And we were like,
"This thing is cool.
74
00:05:31,294 --> 00:05:33,129
We like it. We can do
what we want with it."
75
00:05:33,755 --> 00:05:37,091
We control Lisa by pointing
to these images on the screen
76
00:05:37,175 --> 00:05:39,552
with this unique item
called a mouse.
77
00:05:40,095 --> 00:05:41,013
[Tim Wu] Fast forward.
78
00:05:41,096 --> 00:05:42,973
I worked in Silicon Valley,
first bubble.
79
00:05:43,557 --> 00:05:46,310
And I saw the way
things were going,
80
00:05:46,894 --> 00:05:48,854
and it kinda made me nervous.
81
00:05:50,147 --> 00:05:51,940
So I got into it,
I wrote a paper.
82
00:05:53,108 --> 00:05:56,361
I don't know, I had no idea
what would happen.
83
00:05:56,445 --> 00:05:58,572
I didn't really think
it would become a movement
84
00:05:58,781 --> 00:06:01,075
to try to save the...
there's sort of been a movement
85
00:06:01,158 --> 00:06:02,451
to sort of try and save
the Internet.
86
00:06:02,534 --> 00:06:05,287
I didn't self-consciously
think about being part of that.
87
00:06:05,621 --> 00:06:07,623
I just thought something
should be done.
88
00:06:08,582 --> 00:06:10,417
Like I said, I spent the last
4 years looking at the history
89
00:06:10,501 --> 00:06:11,794
of the American
information industries,
90
00:06:12,169 --> 00:06:14,922
And what you see
is a powerful tendency
91
00:06:15,297 --> 00:06:16,840
for information industries
92
00:06:16,924 --> 00:06:18,634
to give birth
to powerful monopolies.
93
00:06:19,051 --> 00:06:20,844
And we have to be
very careful
94
00:06:20,928 --> 00:06:23,472
to see that Verizon,
AT&T, Comcast
95
00:06:23,555 --> 00:06:25,099
don't end up being essentially
96
00:06:25,182 --> 00:06:26,558
the gatekeepers
of the Internet.
97
00:06:26,642 --> 00:06:28,185
That's extremely important.
98
00:06:28,352 --> 00:06:30,854
There is a abundant
opportunity
99
00:06:30,938 --> 00:06:33,482
when you run a company
that control information
100
00:06:33,732 --> 00:06:36,068
to control the minds
of people in the nation.
101
00:06:36,568 --> 00:06:40,531
[Tim Wu]
I kinda thought the Internet
was this incredible experiment
102
00:06:40,614 --> 00:06:43,283
in building a network
that anyone could be on.
103
00:06:43,367 --> 00:06:45,661
And it seemed pretty clear
to me, even at that point,
104
00:06:45,744 --> 00:06:47,496
first dot-com boom,
105
00:06:47,579 --> 00:06:50,457
that there were a lot of forces
that were interested
106
00:06:50,541 --> 00:06:53,168
in reversing the nature
of the network,
107
00:06:53,252 --> 00:06:54,962
Kinda turning it upside down,
108
00:06:55,045 --> 00:06:58,340
and making it essentially
a commercial project.
109
00:06:58,423 --> 00:07:00,467
Channels of speech being open
110
00:07:00,551 --> 00:07:02,636
and some basic commons
for speaking
111
00:07:02,719 --> 00:07:04,221
are essential to democracy,
112
00:07:04,555 --> 00:07:07,015
and when that becomes
merely a function of money,
113
00:07:07,808 --> 00:07:09,685
the republic is threatened.
114
00:07:09,810 --> 00:07:12,271
It is the thing
that the revolutionaries
115
00:07:12,354 --> 00:07:13,981
realized immediately.
116
00:07:14,064 --> 00:07:15,899
It's one of the reasons
they had the revolution
117
00:07:15,983 --> 00:07:18,944
was of the danger
of too much influence
118
00:07:19,069 --> 00:07:20,612
on money and politics,
119
00:07:20,696 --> 00:07:22,656
and we still
haven't solved the problem.
120
00:07:31,289 --> 00:07:33,666
[Peter Ludlow] I got my start
in virtual worlds.
121
00:07:33,833 --> 00:07:36,127
So, I had a virtual newspaper
122
00:07:36,210 --> 00:07:38,671
that covered events
inside of the Sims Online,
123
00:07:39,255 --> 00:07:41,215
and some of the stories, like,
124
00:07:41,382 --> 00:07:44,385
just made me really unpopular
with the game company.
125
00:07:44,719 --> 00:07:49,015
So, I had, like, one story
about these teenage boys
126
00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:52,185
that were role-playing
as cyber prostitutes,
127
00:07:52,268 --> 00:07:53,561
and they ran a cyber brothel,
128
00:07:53,644 --> 00:07:56,397
and they were cybering people
for game currency,
129
00:07:56,481 --> 00:07:58,608
which they
then sold on eBay.
130
00:07:59,317 --> 00:08:00,902
And the day after
that story came out,
131
00:08:00,985 --> 00:08:04,197
I got kicked out of...
kicked out of the Sims Online.
132
00:08:04,572 --> 00:08:07,492
And then that went viral,
of course,
133
00:08:07,575 --> 00:08:08,910
because how could it not?
134
00:08:08,993 --> 00:08:10,745
So then it went from a blog
135
00:08:10,828 --> 00:08:13,748
that was run by academics
that study virtual worlds,
136
00:08:13,831 --> 00:08:16,501
to Salon.com,
137
00:08:16,584 --> 00:08:20,213
to "The New York Times"
front page,
138
00:08:20,421 --> 00:08:23,049
and then eventually, of course,
"The Daily Show."
139
00:08:24,509 --> 00:08:30,140
[piano music playing]
140
00:08:30,523 --> 00:08:32,191
[Lawrence Lessig]
My name's Lawrence Lessig,
141
00:08:32,275 --> 00:08:35,320
and I'm a professor of law
at Harvard University,
142
00:08:35,528 --> 00:08:38,239
and I direct
the Edmond J. Safra
Center for Ethics
143
00:08:38,323 --> 00:08:39,657
at Harvard University.
144
00:08:39,741 --> 00:08:41,284
The work of the center
has been focused
145
00:08:41,367 --> 00:08:43,453
on what we call
institutional corruption,
146
00:08:43,536 --> 00:08:46,205
which is--you can think of it
as legal corruption
147
00:08:46,289 --> 00:08:47,623
rather than illegal corruption,
148
00:08:47,874 --> 00:08:49,959
so influences that undermine
149
00:08:50,043 --> 00:08:53,087
the effectiveness
of an institution.
150
00:08:53,421 --> 00:08:56,132
So, think about the way
congress funds its elections.
151
00:08:56,632 --> 00:08:58,509
Private funds
fund public elections.
152
00:08:58,593 --> 00:09:00,428
There's nothing illegal
about that.
153
00:09:00,511 --> 00:09:02,138
Indeed, it's constitutionally
protected,
154
00:09:02,221 --> 00:09:04,098
but it leads
most people to believe
155
00:09:04,182 --> 00:09:05,767
money buys results
in congress,
156
00:09:05,850 --> 00:09:07,977
and thereby weaken
public trust of congress,
157
00:09:08,061 --> 00:09:11,522
and also many people believe it
blocks the ability of congress
158
00:09:11,606 --> 00:09:13,691
to address fundamental,
important issues
159
00:09:13,775 --> 00:09:15,818
in a way that the people
would actually want,
160
00:09:15,902 --> 00:09:19,739
as opposed to a tiny slice
of the populace
161
00:09:19,822 --> 00:09:22,450
that directs
and controls elections.
162
00:09:24,043 --> 00:09:25,586
[Tim Wu]
I think as a nation,
163
00:09:25,670 --> 00:09:28,923
Americans are slightly
insensitive to the problem
164
00:09:29,006 --> 00:09:31,258
of the influence
of money on speech,
165
00:09:31,467 --> 00:09:35,971
and so I do therefore think
it is the job of government,
166
00:09:36,055 --> 00:09:38,724
or of the public,
either can be fine
167
00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:41,894
to reserve at least some
speech areas
168
00:09:41,977 --> 00:09:44,105
where it's not all about money.
169
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,774
The Internet was invented
to be that place,
170
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,318
in some ways it still is,
171
00:09:49,402 --> 00:09:51,237
but the question is whether
it can stay that place.
172
00:09:51,862 --> 00:09:55,741
It's critical that the network
continue to empower people
173
00:09:55,825 --> 00:09:59,829
to act free of government
and corporate control,
174
00:09:59,912 --> 00:10:01,747
to organize for whatever
political end
175
00:10:01,831 --> 00:10:03,165
they wanna organize to.
176
00:10:03,249 --> 00:10:05,668
That's the Internet.
That's it's architecture.
177
00:10:06,043 --> 00:10:10,214
Its end-to-end, peer-to-peer
architecture is that design.
178
00:10:10,297 --> 00:10:13,592
So, the only chance we have
in overcoming
179
00:10:13,968 --> 00:10:16,637
what I think of as this core
corruption of our government
180
00:10:16,721 --> 00:10:18,848
is through the Internet.
It's the only way.
181
00:10:18,931 --> 00:10:22,435
Now, that's not to say
that we're likely to win.
182
00:10:22,518 --> 00:10:24,019
You know, I'm not sure
what the odds are,
183
00:10:24,103 --> 00:10:26,480
and I'm not confident
the odds are good.
184
00:10:26,731 --> 00:10:28,607
But whatever the odds are,
185
00:10:28,691 --> 00:10:34,280
the odds are zero if we lose
the basic structure of the net.
186
00:10:34,697 --> 00:10:36,031
So, the Internet
is a battleground
187
00:10:36,115 --> 00:10:37,366
in this sense, right?
188
00:10:37,450 --> 00:10:39,452
So, it's not like
the Internet's gonna
liberate us
189
00:10:39,535 --> 00:10:41,287
or it's not like the Internet's
gonna imprison us.
190
00:10:41,370 --> 00:10:42,872
We're fighting
over the Internet.
191
00:10:43,581 --> 00:10:46,000
So this is not a time
for Republicans and Democrats
192
00:10:46,083 --> 00:10:47,877
to be sniping at each other.
193
00:10:48,043 --> 00:10:50,963
To me, we can all be
unified in our politics
194
00:10:51,046 --> 00:10:52,256
in this particular point.
195
00:10:52,339 --> 00:10:55,801
We need to find out
what the fuck is going on,
196
00:10:56,051 --> 00:10:58,679
because it's going on
sort of behind the curtain.
197
00:10:58,763 --> 00:11:00,765
You gotta pull
that curtain aside
198
00:11:00,848 --> 00:11:02,475
and understand what's going on,
199
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,310
'cause we can all agree
on this thing.
200
00:11:04,393 --> 00:11:05,811
The game is rigged.
201
00:11:05,895 --> 00:11:07,771
Let's find out
exactly how it's rigged
202
00:11:07,855 --> 00:11:09,440
and then get to
the bottom of it.
203
00:11:16,097 --> 00:11:21,227
[electronic music playing]
204
00:11:21,377 --> 00:11:22,920
[Peter Ludlow]
A hacker, to me,
205
00:11:23,004 --> 00:11:26,090
is somebody that takes
traditional technologies
206
00:11:26,173 --> 00:11:29,343
and then mixes them up
and gives them a new purpose.
207
00:11:29,719 --> 00:11:30,970
And an activist is, of course,
208
00:11:31,053 --> 00:11:32,346
someone who's like
a political activist.
209
00:11:32,430 --> 00:11:34,223
So a hacktivist is someone
210
00:11:34,307 --> 00:11:36,934
who takes technology,
re purposes it,
211
00:11:37,018 --> 00:11:40,563
and uses it for some social
or political cause.
212
00:11:45,693 --> 00:11:47,486
What we saw in the Arab Spring
213
00:11:47,570 --> 00:11:50,406
were people taking these
technologies like Twitter
214
00:11:50,489 --> 00:11:51,782
and using them in ways
215
00:11:51,866 --> 00:11:53,576
that nobody expected them
to be used.
216
00:11:53,659 --> 00:11:55,494
I mean, no one thought,
"Oh my God, Twitter,
217
00:11:55,578 --> 00:11:57,621
what a great idea
for a revolution."
218
00:11:57,955 --> 00:12:00,916
And people just said,
"This is a tool I can use,"
219
00:12:01,083 --> 00:12:03,627
and so they took it
and ran with it.
220
00:12:03,919 --> 00:12:06,630
But you say you can't stop
people from using it
221
00:12:06,714 --> 00:12:09,342
for political activism
or something.
222
00:12:09,425 --> 00:12:10,843
Oh, yes, you can.
223
00:12:10,968 --> 00:12:14,805
The Computer Fraud and Abuse
Act was written in 1985,
224
00:12:14,889 --> 00:12:17,641
shortly after the movie
"War Games" came out, right?
225
00:12:17,725 --> 00:12:22,688
People thought, "Wow, someone
could start World War III
226
00:12:22,813 --> 00:12:27,485
by dialing in on a 300-baud
modem from their Apple II,"
227
00:12:27,568 --> 00:12:29,362
or whatever he had.
228
00:12:29,445 --> 00:12:31,906
First of all, let's talk about
the Computer Fraud
and Abuse Act
229
00:12:31,989 --> 00:12:33,908
and how it easy it is
to violate it.
230
00:12:33,991 --> 00:12:35,534
It says you can't
use a computer
231
00:12:35,618 --> 00:12:37,703
for purposes
that were unintended.
232
00:12:37,787 --> 00:12:39,747
And the Holder
Justice Department
233
00:12:39,830 --> 00:12:41,665
has interpreted that to mean
234
00:12:41,749 --> 00:12:43,584
if you violate the terms
of service agreement
235
00:12:43,667 --> 00:12:45,628
for a computer program,
236
00:12:45,711 --> 00:12:48,714
you're in violation of the
Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
237
00:12:49,006 --> 00:12:50,800
I'm talking about
the little thing
238
00:12:50,883 --> 00:12:52,176
where you have to check the box
239
00:12:52,259 --> 00:12:54,053
before you can use
the software, right?
240
00:12:54,136 --> 00:12:56,847
It says, "Check this
box to say that you agree
241
00:12:56,931 --> 00:13:00,142
to the terms of service," which
you never read, none of us do,
242
00:13:00,226 --> 00:13:03,145
but you check the box 'cause
you wanna use the software.
243
00:13:03,479 --> 00:13:04,939
Well, in the fine print
244
00:13:05,022 --> 00:13:07,817
are thousands and thousands
of things that sort of
245
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:10,361
could put you in violation
of the terms of service.
246
00:13:10,945 --> 00:13:13,739
Example, "Seventeen Magazine."
247
00:13:13,823 --> 00:13:16,242
If you were to use
"Seventeen Magazine"
248
00:13:16,325 --> 00:13:18,244
and you agree to
the terms of service,
249
00:13:18,327 --> 00:13:22,706
you are agreeing that you
are at least 18 years old.
250
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:25,709
So, if you're 17 years old
251
00:13:25,793 --> 00:13:29,547
and you are reading
"Seventeen Magazine" online,
252
00:13:29,630 --> 00:13:30,965
you are a felon.
253
00:13:31,048 --> 00:13:35,094
OkCupid, Match.com, you have
to click one of these things
254
00:13:35,177 --> 00:13:36,720
before you use their service.
255
00:13:36,804 --> 00:13:38,597
And on there
it says that you agree
256
00:13:38,681 --> 00:13:41,684
that you're not gonna lie
about anything you say.
257
00:13:41,767 --> 00:13:44,812
So, if you lie about,
like, your size or whatever
258
00:13:44,895 --> 00:13:48,441
on Match.com or OkCupid,
you are a felon.
259
00:13:49,150 --> 00:13:53,237
So, the question is...
if everyone's a felon,
260
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,156
then who do we prosecute?
261
00:13:55,239 --> 00:13:57,867
And that's why
this is dangerous
262
00:13:57,950 --> 00:14:01,912
because it means a prosecutor
can pick and choose.
263
00:14:01,996 --> 00:14:04,039
So, they know
they can get you.
264
00:14:04,123 --> 00:14:07,501
They know you're in violation
of the CFAA, right?
265
00:14:07,751 --> 00:14:09,378
So all they have
to do is decide
266
00:14:09,462 --> 00:14:10,796
who's a threat to the system,
267
00:14:11,297 --> 00:14:13,382
and that's the person
they go after.
268
00:14:13,391 --> 00:14:17,821
[audience applauding]
269
00:14:19,029 --> 00:14:20,364
Thanks.
270
00:14:21,699 --> 00:14:23,826
Now that you've seen the theory
behind Creative Commons,
271
00:14:23,909 --> 00:14:25,703
it's time to show you
some of the practice.
272
00:14:25,953 --> 00:14:28,664
So, when you come to your--
come to our website, here.
273
00:14:29,832 --> 00:14:33,586
[male newscaster]
At age 14, he was blowing
people away in Silicon Valley
274
00:14:33,669 --> 00:14:34,962
with what he could do.
275
00:14:35,045 --> 00:14:36,672
Books are such
important artifacts.
276
00:14:36,755 --> 00:14:39,091
They're the kind
of repositories of knowledge
in our culture.
277
00:14:39,174 --> 00:14:40,759
Because for everything,
278
00:14:40,843 --> 00:14:43,053
there's someone who cares
a great deal about it,
279
00:14:43,304 --> 00:14:45,014
and that's what television,
that's what radio
280
00:14:45,097 --> 00:14:46,807
doesn't provide,
but the Internet does.
281
00:14:48,309 --> 00:14:49,852
[Lawrence Lessig]
I first met him
at conferences.
282
00:14:49,935 --> 00:14:53,981
His parents would chaperone him
as a 12- or 13-year-old
283
00:14:54,064 --> 00:14:56,150
to attend these
computer conferences.
284
00:14:56,775 --> 00:15:01,113
I invited him to be the core
architect of Creative Commons.
285
00:15:01,196 --> 00:15:02,823
I got to watch him grow up.
286
00:15:03,782 --> 00:15:07,336
[piano music playing]
287
00:15:07,503 --> 00:15:11,132
It was the first experience
of being a father.
288
00:15:11,882 --> 00:15:17,430
At the age of 14, he helped
co-design the RSS protocol.
289
00:15:17,513 --> 00:15:19,598
Fifteen, he was
the core architect
290
00:15:19,682 --> 00:15:22,768
for the technical
infrastructure for Creative
Commons.
291
00:15:22,852 --> 00:15:25,187
Nineteen, he began Infogami
292
00:15:25,271 --> 00:15:27,732
which eventually
merged with Reddit.
293
00:15:27,815 --> 00:15:29,275
And from the age of 20,
294
00:15:29,358 --> 00:15:32,361
he worked in a series
of incredible projects.
295
00:15:36,015 --> 00:15:38,351
[Aaron Swartz]
What we try and do
is we try and organize people
296
00:15:38,434 --> 00:15:40,728
because the Internet
really provides this chance
297
00:15:40,811 --> 00:15:43,230
to realize that you
can accomplish something.
298
00:15:44,690 --> 00:15:46,275
[Lawrence Lessig]
So Aaron was a hacker.
299
00:15:46,651 --> 00:15:50,780
What this hacking is, is
the use of technical knowledge
300
00:15:51,322 --> 00:15:52,865
to advance a public good.
301
00:15:52,948 --> 00:15:56,452
We need to celebrate
the activity of hacking.
302
00:15:57,161 --> 00:16:03,459
[gripping instrumental
music playing]
303
00:16:45,459 --> 00:16:47,169
[Aaron Swartz]
Whether you're going
after the government,
304
00:16:47,253 --> 00:16:48,796
whether you're
releasing documents
305
00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:50,923
that they have tried
to keep secret,
306
00:16:51,006 --> 00:16:52,883
whether you're telling
a reporter about, you know,
307
00:16:52,967 --> 00:16:54,677
malfeasance that's gone on.
308
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,887
The government
can't stop any of that.
309
00:16:57,054 --> 00:17:00,516
[Cory Doctorow]
In 2008, he helped liberate
a database called PACER,
310
00:17:00,599 --> 00:17:02,685
which is where all
the U.S. Court filings are.
311
00:17:02,768 --> 00:17:05,604
Aaron arranged to put
$1.5 million worth
312
00:17:05,688 --> 00:17:08,566
of American court
filings into recap,
313
00:17:08,649 --> 00:17:11,110
which everybody thought
was awesome except for the FBI,
314
00:17:11,193 --> 00:17:13,612
who opened a file on him,
they staked him out,
315
00:17:13,696 --> 00:17:15,406
they brought him in for
questioning without his lawyer.
316
00:17:15,489 --> 00:17:17,908
The next thing he did
that made headlines
317
00:17:17,992 --> 00:17:20,327
was getting involved
with a thing called JSTOR.
318
00:17:21,162 --> 00:17:23,831
[Aaron Swartz] Every time
someone has written down
a scientific paper,
319
00:17:23,914 --> 00:17:25,458
it's been scanned,
and digitized,
320
00:17:25,541 --> 00:17:26,959
and put in these collections.
321
00:17:27,168 --> 00:17:29,754
That is a legacy that
has been brought to us
322
00:17:29,837 --> 00:17:32,590
by the history of people
doing interesting work,
323
00:17:32,673 --> 00:17:34,008
the history of scientists.
324
00:17:34,133 --> 00:17:35,426
It's a legacy that
should belong
325
00:17:35,509 --> 00:17:37,511
to us as a commons,
as a people.
326
00:17:38,471 --> 00:17:41,474
Once I realized that there
were real, serious problems,
327
00:17:41,557 --> 00:17:43,893
fundamental problems,
that I could do something
to address,
328
00:17:44,018 --> 00:17:45,811
there was really no going back.
329
00:17:46,187 --> 00:17:48,773
By virtue of being students
at a major U.S. university,
330
00:17:48,856 --> 00:17:52,193
you have access to a wide
variety of scholarly journals.
331
00:17:52,651 --> 00:17:55,696
Pretty much every major
university in the United States
332
00:17:55,780 --> 00:17:57,865
pays these sort of licensing
fees to organizations
333
00:17:57,948 --> 00:18:00,284
like JSTOR and Thomson ISI
334
00:18:00,367 --> 00:18:02,828
to get access
to scholarly journals.
335
00:18:02,912 --> 00:18:04,997
And these licensing fees
are substantial,
336
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:06,624
and they're so substantial that
337
00:18:06,707 --> 00:18:08,793
people who
are studying in India,
338
00:18:08,876 --> 00:18:12,254
they're locked out from
our entire scientific legacy.
339
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,842
But you have
a key to those gates,
340
00:18:16,967 --> 00:18:20,137
and with a little bit
of shell script magic,
341
00:18:20,221 --> 00:18:22,473
you can get
those journal articles.
342
00:18:22,556 --> 00:18:24,266
Once you have a copy,
theoretically,
343
00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:26,101
you could make it
available to everyone.
344
00:18:26,936 --> 00:18:29,563
In the same way that people
did civil disobedience,
345
00:18:29,647 --> 00:18:31,482
broke the rules
for the civil rights movement,
346
00:18:31,565 --> 00:18:33,025
it's actually
a serious problem
347
00:18:33,108 --> 00:18:35,236
that the vast majority
of the planet doesn't
have access
348
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:37,404
to our accumulated
scientific knowledge,
349
00:18:37,488 --> 00:18:39,657
and I think it might be worth
breaking a couple rules
350
00:18:39,740 --> 00:18:41,242
to solve that problem.
351
00:19:01,387 --> 00:19:03,180
The Federal
Communications Commission
352
00:19:03,264 --> 00:19:06,267
has adopted new rules
on network neutrality.
353
00:19:06,350 --> 00:19:08,060
The new guidelines are designed
354
00:19:08,143 --> 00:19:09,812
to limit the control
that corporations
355
00:19:09,895 --> 00:19:12,982
such as Google and Verizon
wield over the content
356
00:19:13,065 --> 00:19:14,608
that consumers see on the web.
357
00:19:14,692 --> 00:19:17,903
Joining me now is the inventor
of the term"net neutrality,"
Tim Wu.
358
00:19:17,987 --> 00:19:20,030
He is a professor
at Columbia University.
359
00:19:20,114 --> 00:19:22,199
Pleased to have him here at
this table for the first time.
360
00:19:22,283 --> 00:19:23,409
Welcome.
361
00:19:23,492 --> 00:19:24,952
Pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
362
00:19:25,035 --> 00:19:26,579
The net neutrality vote
means what?
363
00:19:26,662 --> 00:19:29,331
What that means is it's illegal
for a carrier company,
364
00:19:29,415 --> 00:19:33,919
let's say Verizon, to block,
let's say, Hulu, or Bing,
365
00:19:34,003 --> 00:19:35,796
a site it doesn't like.
366
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,756
The carriers have to carry
all the websites.
367
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,884
That's the basic idea
of net neutrality.
368
00:19:39,967 --> 00:19:43,137
[Charlie Rose]
And was there a real threat
that they would do that?
369
00:19:43,220 --> 00:19:45,389
[Tim Wu]
What history shows
is, over time,
370
00:19:45,472 --> 00:19:48,392
eventually what was once
the young, exciting new media
371
00:19:48,475 --> 00:19:50,686
becomes increasingly
consolidated,
372
00:19:50,769 --> 00:19:52,563
increasingly closed,
373
00:19:52,646 --> 00:19:55,399
dominated by a monopolist
or an oligopoly.
374
00:19:55,566 --> 00:20:00,654
There's an important lesson in
the history of communications,
375
00:20:00,738 --> 00:20:06,702
which is that, in fact,
government likes monopolies
376
00:20:06,785 --> 00:20:09,788
because they can be used
to serve political ends.
377
00:20:11,916 --> 00:20:14,668
Now, Western Union
became perilously close
to that example.
378
00:20:14,752 --> 00:20:18,881
You had a monopolist over the
instant moving of information.
379
00:20:18,964 --> 00:20:20,716
That is the only way
to get information
380
00:20:21,467 --> 00:20:24,637
from A to B instantly,
is one company,
381
00:20:25,137 --> 00:20:27,723
and that one company happens
to think the Republican party
382
00:20:27,806 --> 00:20:29,058
should be in government
forever.
383
00:20:29,767 --> 00:20:31,393
So, it gives
an enormous advantage
384
00:20:31,477 --> 00:20:33,395
to all the Republican
candidates.
385
00:20:33,479 --> 00:20:35,773
Those situations are
some of the most dangerous
386
00:20:35,856 --> 00:20:37,691
to the democratic system.
387
00:20:38,192 --> 00:20:39,985
And it's no coincidence...
there's other reasons too,
388
00:20:40,069 --> 00:20:45,407
but the fact is you had
Republican administrations
389
00:20:45,532 --> 00:20:48,243
from Lincoln onwards,
all the way to Woodrow Wilson,
390
00:20:49,078 --> 00:20:51,330
in part on the back
of the telegraph system.
391
00:20:53,582 --> 00:20:55,334
That may seem like
a 19th-century problem.
392
00:20:55,417 --> 00:20:58,253
I think you see some
of the same problems today.
393
00:20:58,837 --> 00:21:01,048
It was clear that
the Bush Administration
394
00:21:01,465 --> 00:21:05,260
liked the increasing
concentration of AT&T
395
00:21:05,344 --> 00:21:07,137
for national security reasons.
396
00:21:10,224 --> 00:21:12,643
[George Bush]
It is in our national interest,
and it's legal.
397
00:21:12,726 --> 00:21:14,770
It's in our national interest
'cause we wanna know
398
00:21:14,853 --> 00:21:17,690
who's calling who,
from overseas into America.
399
00:21:17,773 --> 00:21:20,818
We need to know,
in order to protect the people.
400
00:21:20,901 --> 00:21:22,903
[Tim Wu]
In fact, it's often been
the case
401
00:21:22,987 --> 00:21:26,156
that the national security
parts of the government
402
00:21:26,281 --> 00:21:28,283
want there to be
a single company
403
00:21:28,367 --> 00:21:30,285
in charge of information,
404
00:21:30,452 --> 00:21:33,038
either so they can
defend against a threat
405
00:21:33,122 --> 00:21:36,834
or, more dangerously,
so they can spy on citizens.
406
00:21:39,086 --> 00:21:40,045
So, I'll say that again.
407
00:21:40,129 --> 00:21:42,965
The governments tend to
like information monopolies
408
00:21:43,507 --> 00:21:47,011
because if they can have
some control or influence
409
00:21:47,136 --> 00:21:50,222
over that information monopoly,
it increases their power.
410
00:21:50,305 --> 00:21:51,724
That is the danger.
411
00:21:52,516 --> 00:21:54,143
It's not simply a danger
412
00:21:54,226 --> 00:21:56,186
of higher prices
or bad service.
413
00:21:56,437 --> 00:21:59,064
It is a much more
fundamental danger
414
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,942
to the nature of republican
government itself,
415
00:22:02,192 --> 00:22:04,987
because if you have
an information monopolist
416
00:22:05,070 --> 00:22:07,406
who's essentially complicit
with government,
417
00:22:07,823 --> 00:22:09,158
acting hand in hand,
418
00:22:10,576 --> 00:22:13,162
it comes very close
to a Fascist system
of government.
419
00:22:18,208 --> 00:22:20,043
You once claimed
that you have an ability
420
00:22:20,127 --> 00:22:22,045
to face unpleasant facts.
421
00:22:22,129 --> 00:22:25,007
Is that what you've
demonstrated in "1984,"
422
00:22:25,090 --> 00:22:27,634
by drawing an accurate
portrait of the future?
423
00:22:28,635 --> 00:22:30,304
This is the direction the world
424
00:22:30,387 --> 00:22:32,097
is going in at
the present time.
425
00:22:32,806 --> 00:22:37,686
The moral to be drawn from this
dangerous nightmare situation
426
00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:39,396
is a simple one...
427
00:22:41,356 --> 00:22:42,524
don't let it happen.
428
00:22:42,608 --> 00:22:47,654
[funky music playing]
429
00:22:47,738 --> 00:22:49,323
[Edward Snowden] I grew up
with the understanding
430
00:22:49,406 --> 00:22:50,532
that the world I lived in
431
00:22:50,616 --> 00:22:54,119
was one where people
enjoyed a sort of freedom
432
00:22:54,203 --> 00:22:57,080
to communicate with
each other in privacy,
433
00:22:57,164 --> 00:22:59,249
without it being monitored,
without it being measured
434
00:22:59,333 --> 00:23:02,127
or analyzed
or sort of judged
435
00:23:02,336 --> 00:23:05,088
by these shadowy figures
or systems.
436
00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:10,803
d When the powers of dictators
shall be taken all away
437
00:23:11,595 --> 00:23:14,014
d There'll be smoke
on the water d
438
00:23:14,515 --> 00:23:17,100
[Edward Snowden] I joined
the intelligence community
when I was very young,
439
00:23:17,184 --> 00:23:20,646
sort of the government
as a whole.
440
00:23:20,729 --> 00:23:25,108
I enlisted in the army shortly
after the invasion of Iraq,
441
00:23:25,192 --> 00:23:28,570
and I believed in the goodness
of what we were doing.
442
00:23:28,654 --> 00:23:31,156
I believed in the nobility
of our intentions
443
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,284
to free oppressed people
overseas.
444
00:23:36,161 --> 00:23:38,121
d There'll be smoke
on the water
445
00:23:38,205 --> 00:23:40,457
d On the land,
and the sea
446
00:23:40,541 --> 00:23:45,128
d When our army and navy
overtakes the enemy
447
00:23:45,212 --> 00:23:47,339
d There'll be smoke
on the mountains
448
00:23:47,422 --> 00:23:49,800
d Where the heathen gods stay
449
00:23:49,883 --> 00:23:54,346
d And the sun that is rising
will go down on that day d
450
00:23:58,684 --> 00:24:00,811
[explosion]
451
00:24:00,894 --> 00:24:04,857
But over time, I increasingly
was exposed to true information
452
00:24:04,940 --> 00:24:08,318
that had not been
propagandized in the media.
453
00:24:09,570 --> 00:24:14,449
[radio chatter]
454
00:24:15,534 --> 00:24:18,328
We were actually involved
in misleading the public.
455
00:24:25,168 --> 00:24:29,006
The NSA specifically targets
the communications of everyone.
456
00:24:29,089 --> 00:24:31,216
It ingests them by default.
457
00:24:31,383 --> 00:24:35,012
Companies like Google,
Facebook, Apple, Microsoft,
458
00:24:35,095 --> 00:24:37,389
they all provide
the NSA direct access
459
00:24:37,472 --> 00:24:41,059
to all of the systems you use
to communicate, to store data,
460
00:24:41,226 --> 00:24:42,561
to put things in the cloud.
461
00:24:42,644 --> 00:24:46,440
I think that's a dangerous
capability for anybody to have.
462
00:24:49,401 --> 00:24:51,528
[Peter Ludlow] People say,
"If I have nothing to hide,
463
00:24:51,612 --> 00:24:53,488
"what's the worry?
I'd rather have security,
464
00:24:53,572 --> 00:24:56,074
so I'd rather have
the NSA spying on everyone."
465
00:24:56,283 --> 00:24:58,952
First of all, it's clear
that the NSA,
466
00:24:59,036 --> 00:25:00,370
by doing the spying program,
467
00:25:00,454 --> 00:25:03,790
is not providing
any extra security.
468
00:25:04,082 --> 00:25:06,501
In fact, it might be
undermining security
469
00:25:06,585 --> 00:25:09,004
because if you gather
too much information,
470
00:25:09,129 --> 00:25:12,049
you don't know what information
is valuable and what isn't.
471
00:25:12,257 --> 00:25:16,595
So, I would rather have the NSA
out there spying on terrorists
472
00:25:16,678 --> 00:25:18,597
instead of you and me,
473
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,807
because if our information
is there,
474
00:25:20,891 --> 00:25:23,936
it's just cluttering up
their desk and prohibiting them
475
00:25:24,019 --> 00:25:26,438
from getting the information
that they need.
476
00:25:27,356 --> 00:25:29,358
Now you might say,
"Oh, well, big data,
477
00:25:29,441 --> 00:25:31,568
their computer programs
solve all that."
478
00:25:31,652 --> 00:25:33,737
That's bullshit, and I'm
in a position to know.
479
00:25:33,820 --> 00:25:35,906
Unless you prepare
your data correctly,
480
00:25:35,989 --> 00:25:38,408
which is a very
meticulous process,
481
00:25:39,034 --> 00:25:41,578
data mining is not effective.
482
00:25:42,371 --> 00:25:45,207
So, the NSA can
talk about making us safe,
483
00:25:45,290 --> 00:25:47,084
but it's not doing that,
484
00:25:47,167 --> 00:25:48,919
and we need to sit
and think about
485
00:25:49,002 --> 00:25:52,089
the very real possibility
that it's making us less safe.
486
00:25:52,798 --> 00:25:57,302
Control that gets
erected for one reason,
487
00:25:57,386 --> 00:25:59,012
and maybe a good reason,
488
00:25:59,096 --> 00:26:03,058
gets deployed and exercised
for a different reason,
489
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:05,644
and not necessarily
a good reason.
490
00:26:05,852 --> 00:26:08,438
So, you know,
you build the machine
491
00:26:08,522 --> 00:26:10,148
to deal with the terrorists.
492
00:26:10,399 --> 00:26:12,401
You then have
a machine in place
493
00:26:12,526 --> 00:26:14,486
to deal with
the copyright infringers,
494
00:26:14,611 --> 00:26:16,655
and not just
the, quote, "pirates,"
495
00:26:16,738 --> 00:26:19,616
but now the people who
remix without permission.
496
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:22,744
And so you begin to build
the infrastructure of control
497
00:26:22,911 --> 00:26:24,454
into the core of the Internet,
498
00:26:24,538 --> 00:26:26,415
and it begins
to be dialed
499
00:26:26,498 --> 00:26:29,001
towards every new problem
that you describe.
500
00:26:29,084 --> 00:26:30,669
Now again,
I'm not an anarchist.
501
00:26:30,752 --> 00:26:32,629
I think the law
needs to regulate
502
00:26:32,713 --> 00:26:34,297
certain kinds of behavior,
503
00:26:34,381 --> 00:26:35,882
but we need to be sensitive
504
00:26:35,966 --> 00:26:38,969
to the way in which we build
an infrastructure for control
505
00:26:39,052 --> 00:26:40,846
that gives the government
wildly too much power
506
00:26:40,929 --> 00:26:42,472
to regulate in a context
507
00:26:42,556 --> 00:26:47,144
where liberty or innovation
is threatened.
508
00:26:56,361 --> 00:26:58,363
[female newscaster]
We begin tonight
with new developments
509
00:26:58,447 --> 00:27:00,115
in the case of Aaron Swartz.
510
00:27:00,198 --> 00:27:01,533
In a recent and closed
door hearing
511
00:27:01,616 --> 00:27:03,493
regarding the computer
fraud prosecution
512
00:27:03,577 --> 00:27:05,579
of the Internet activist,
it was revealed
513
00:27:05,662 --> 00:27:07,622
by a Justice Department
representative
514
00:27:08,081 --> 00:27:11,710
that Swartz was indeed targeted
because of his politics.
515
00:27:13,170 --> 00:27:15,714
Back in 2008, Swartz
and others laid out their views
516
00:27:15,797 --> 00:27:19,301
in a piece called the "Guerilla
Open Access Manifesto."
517
00:27:19,593 --> 00:27:21,428
The manifesto, according to
the Justice Department,
518
00:27:21,511 --> 00:27:23,388
demonstrated his intent
519
00:27:23,472 --> 00:27:26,391
in downloading content
on a large scale.
520
00:27:26,516 --> 00:27:31,563
He became a target,
a political target, okay,
521
00:27:31,646 --> 00:27:33,774
and that's why all these things
happened to him.
522
00:27:33,857 --> 00:27:38,320
There is no reasonable cause
523
00:27:38,403 --> 00:27:41,573
behind going after
a young genius like that
524
00:27:41,656 --> 00:27:42,866
in the fashion they did.
525
00:27:42,949 --> 00:27:44,242
It's political.
526
00:27:49,289 --> 00:27:54,169
[dainty instrumental
music playing]
527
00:28:04,888 --> 00:28:07,349
[Aaron Swartz]
I was at an event,
and I was talking,
528
00:28:07,432 --> 00:28:09,267
and I got introduced
to a U.S. Senator.
529
00:28:09,351 --> 00:28:12,479
And I asked him why, despite
being such a progressive,
530
00:28:12,687 --> 00:28:15,440
despite giving a speech
in favor of civil liberties,
531
00:28:15,524 --> 00:28:18,568
why he was supporting a bill
that would censor the Internet.
532
00:28:19,486 --> 00:28:21,780
And you know, that typical
politician smile he had
533
00:28:21,863 --> 00:28:23,740
suddenly faded from his face,
534
00:28:23,824 --> 00:28:27,119
and his eyes started
burning this fiery red.
535
00:28:27,202 --> 00:28:28,537
And he started shouting at me.
536
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:30,413
He said, "Those people
on the Internet,
537
00:28:30,497 --> 00:28:32,082
they think they can
get away with anything.
538
00:28:32,165 --> 00:28:34,126
They think they can
just put anything up there
539
00:28:34,209 --> 00:28:35,502
and there's nothing
we can do to stop them.
540
00:28:35,585 --> 00:28:36,878
They put up everything.
541
00:28:36,962 --> 00:28:38,880
Well, we're gonna show them.
542
00:28:38,964 --> 00:28:40,424
There's gotta be laws
on the Internet.
543
00:28:40,507 --> 00:28:42,509
It's gotta be under control.
544
00:28:43,552 --> 00:28:45,720
[Christopher Dodd]
Everyone says
they wanna shut down
545
00:28:45,804 --> 00:28:48,557
these foreign criminals
who are stealing American jobs.
546
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,392
These two bills
are designed to do that.
547
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:52,310
They've been worked out
for months.
548
00:28:52,394 --> 00:28:56,148
[Lawrence Lessig]
It was Chris Dodd's
first chance
549
00:28:56,523 --> 00:28:59,985
to demonstrate how powerful
a lobbyist he was gonna be.
550
00:29:00,068 --> 00:29:03,447
Chris Dodd, Democratic
Senator from Connecticut,
551
00:29:03,530 --> 00:29:07,826
when he retired, promised
his citizens from Connecticut
552
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:09,536
he would not become a lobbyist,
553
00:29:09,619 --> 00:29:11,663
and then turned around
and became the head
554
00:29:11,746 --> 00:29:13,373
of the Motion Picture
Association of America,
555
00:29:13,457 --> 00:29:15,333
the most powerful lobbying arm
556
00:29:15,417 --> 00:29:17,627
for the content industry
in Washington.
557
00:29:17,961 --> 00:29:20,922
And he could command
a very high price
558
00:29:21,006 --> 00:29:23,133
as the chief of the MPAA
559
00:29:23,216 --> 00:29:25,594
because people believed
he had the ability
560
00:29:25,677 --> 00:29:27,095
to deliver on the goods,
561
00:29:27,179 --> 00:29:28,930
and the goods here meant
562
00:29:29,014 --> 00:29:31,766
being able to get laws passed
through Congress.
563
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:34,019
So, he succeeded before
564
00:29:34,102 --> 00:29:36,480
the fight blew up
on the Internet.
565
00:29:36,563 --> 00:29:39,733
In getting the commitment
of all the key senators
566
00:29:39,816 --> 00:29:41,485
to get this through the Senate
567
00:29:41,568 --> 00:29:43,320
and the same kind of support
in the House,
568
00:29:43,653 --> 00:29:45,739
and it was gonna be
his victory lap.
569
00:29:45,822 --> 00:29:49,409
What content owners wanted
was a simple, efficient way
570
00:29:50,118 --> 00:29:51,870
for them to get sites
taken down.
571
00:29:52,496 --> 00:29:55,165
Now look, there are plenty
of pirate sites out there,
572
00:29:55,248 --> 00:29:56,583
and I don't support piracy.
573
00:29:56,875 --> 00:29:59,336
I'm not in favor of people
taking other people's content
574
00:29:59,419 --> 00:30:00,712
and sharing it illegally.
575
00:30:00,795 --> 00:30:03,673
But you know, you can
agree with the objective
576
00:30:03,757 --> 00:30:06,843
to deal with, quote, "piracy,"
and still not agree
577
00:30:06,927 --> 00:30:09,471
that we ought to give
to the content owners
578
00:30:09,846 --> 00:30:13,558
basically an automatic right
to go to a court
579
00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:17,729
and get the government to order
a website off of the Internet,
580
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:19,814
which is basically
what this was.
581
00:30:19,898 --> 00:30:22,067
It was the ability
to get some domain name
582
00:30:22,150 --> 00:30:25,237
removed from the DNS,
or an IP address blocked,
583
00:30:25,779 --> 00:30:28,490
and forcing people to comply
with these blocking orders
584
00:30:28,615 --> 00:30:31,826
in a procedure that didn't
give any basic due process
585
00:30:31,910 --> 00:30:33,578
to the people who
were being challenged.
586
00:30:33,995 --> 00:30:36,122
I think SOPA
is the best evidence
587
00:30:36,206 --> 00:30:38,333
that they just
have not learned yet,
588
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:42,087
and they're still waging
this evermore vicious war
589
00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:43,755
on the idea that somehow
590
00:30:43,838 --> 00:30:46,591
they're gonna bomb our kids
into compliance.
591
00:30:46,675 --> 00:30:49,594
All they're gonna do,
like every war of prohibition,
592
00:30:49,678 --> 00:30:51,763
is to bomb our kids
into radicalism,
593
00:30:51,846 --> 00:30:53,598
and they can't afford
the radicalism
594
00:30:53,682 --> 00:30:55,267
of the next generation.
595
00:30:56,810 --> 00:31:00,939
[ominous music playing]
596
00:31:05,902 --> 00:31:07,904
[Lawrence Lessig]
When you sit down,
and you take somebody's music,
597
00:31:07,988 --> 00:31:09,114
and you mix it with your video,
598
00:31:09,197 --> 00:31:10,615
and you share
it with your friends,
599
00:31:10,699 --> 00:31:12,826
that's the sort of activity
we should be celebrating,
600
00:31:12,909 --> 00:31:14,327
not regulating.
601
00:31:14,786 --> 00:31:17,247
[Aaron Swartz]
Everything has this process
of pulling things together
602
00:31:17,330 --> 00:31:18,665
and recombining them.
603
00:31:18,915 --> 00:31:21,585
What's worrying about
these sort of copyright police
604
00:31:21,668 --> 00:31:23,670
is that they wanna
prevent recombination.
605
00:31:23,753 --> 00:31:25,297
They wanna have
the law come in
606
00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:27,424
and say
recombination isn't legal.
607
00:31:27,507 --> 00:31:29,676
Congress was going
to break the Internet,
608
00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:31,469
and it just didn't care.
609
00:31:31,803 --> 00:31:37,267
[John Conyers Jr.]
And to those who say that
a bill to stop online theft
610
00:31:37,434 --> 00:31:39,060
will break the Internet,
611
00:31:39,561 --> 00:31:41,479
I'd like to point out
612
00:31:43,356 --> 00:31:47,944
that it's not likely to happen.
613
00:31:48,028 --> 00:31:49,613
[Jon Stewart]
Hey, does anyone
on these committees
614
00:31:49,696 --> 00:31:51,031
charged with regulating
the Internet
615
00:31:51,114 --> 00:31:53,617
understand how any of this
Internet stuff works?
616
00:31:53,950 --> 00:31:55,118
I'm not a nerd.
617
00:31:55,201 --> 00:31:56,369
I am not a nerd.
618
00:31:56,453 --> 00:31:57,829
I'm just not enough
of a nerd.
619
00:31:57,912 --> 00:32:00,832
Maybe we oughta ask some nerds
what this thing really does.
620
00:32:01,124 --> 00:32:03,293
Let's have a hearing,
bring in the nerds.
621
00:32:04,461 --> 00:32:05,545
Really?
622
00:32:08,548 --> 00:32:09,716
Nerds?
623
00:32:10,842 --> 00:32:12,761
You know, I think actually
the word you're looking for
624
00:32:12,844 --> 00:32:14,262
is experts.
625
00:32:14,346 --> 00:32:16,765
There was just something
about watching
626
00:32:16,848 --> 00:32:19,768
those clueless members
of Congress debate the bill,
627
00:32:19,893 --> 00:32:22,062
watching them insist they
could regulate the Internet
628
00:32:22,145 --> 00:32:24,314
and a bunch of nerds
couldn't possibly stop them.
629
00:32:24,439 --> 00:32:27,400
The Pirate Bay
is a notorious pirate site.
630
00:32:27,484 --> 00:32:30,862
Why don't you refuse
to de-index this site
631
00:32:30,945 --> 00:32:32,656
in your search results?
632
00:32:32,864 --> 00:32:35,533
[Aaron Swartz]
Those hearings
scared a lot of people.
633
00:32:35,617 --> 00:32:36,951
They saw this
wasn't the attitude
634
00:32:37,035 --> 00:32:39,037
of a thoughtful government
trying to resolve trade-offs
635
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,373
in order to best
represent its citizens.
636
00:32:41,456 --> 00:32:43,333
This was more like
the attitude of a tyrant,
637
00:32:43,416 --> 00:32:44,751
and so the citizens
fought back.
638
00:32:44,834 --> 00:32:46,711
[protester]
This is what democracy
looks like!
639
00:32:46,836 --> 00:32:49,547
This is what hypocrisy
looks like!
640
00:32:49,631 --> 00:32:53,426
[Alexis Ohanian]
This is a movement that started
organically, on the Internet,
641
00:32:53,510 --> 00:32:55,470
by American citizens.
642
00:32:55,553 --> 00:32:57,722
[Tim Wu]
The main thing I think
is interesting about SOPA
643
00:32:57,806 --> 00:32:59,057
was the strength
of the reaction,
644
00:32:59,140 --> 00:33:01,476
and it wasn't simply
the people in D.C.
645
00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:02,894
who care about
these issues,
646
00:33:02,977 --> 00:33:05,855
but it was tech people,
engineer people, young people.
647
00:33:05,939 --> 00:33:07,107
All kinds of people said,
648
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:09,234
"You know, I kinda like
the Internet the way it is,
649
00:33:09,943 --> 00:33:13,822
"And I just don't think
Hollywood's plan
650
00:33:13,905 --> 00:33:15,240
is gonna make things better."
651
00:33:15,323 --> 00:33:16,658
[electronic music playing]
652
00:33:16,741 --> 00:33:19,452
The war for the Internet
has begun.
653
00:33:20,203 --> 00:33:23,665
Hollywood is in control
of politics.
654
00:33:23,748 --> 00:33:26,793
The government
is killing innovation.
655
00:33:27,419 --> 00:33:30,380
Don't let them
get away with that.
656
00:33:30,672 --> 00:33:32,590
Everyone was thinking
of ways they could help.
657
00:33:32,674 --> 00:33:35,009
Often, really clever,
ingenious ways.
658
00:33:35,301 --> 00:33:39,013
(Jack Black)
Then these pirates come, and
they steal all our Internets.
659
00:33:41,641 --> 00:33:44,018
[Aaron Swartz]
They made infographics,
they started PACs,
660
00:33:44,102 --> 00:33:46,020
they designed ads,
they bought billboards,
661
00:33:46,104 --> 00:33:48,356
they wrote news stories,
they held meetings.
662
00:33:49,023 --> 00:33:51,735
Everybody saw it as
their responsibility to help.
663
00:33:51,818 --> 00:33:53,361
They threw themselves into it.
664
00:33:53,445 --> 00:33:54,946
They didn't stop to
ask anyone for permission.
665
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:56,656
d Let's get together
666
00:33:56,740 --> 00:33:58,700
d Let's all unite
667
00:33:58,783 --> 00:34:01,703
d Or they will
do whatever they like d
668
00:34:01,911 --> 00:34:04,956
[female newscaster]
At least 7,000 websites are
going dark tonight at midnight,
669
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:06,833
including one of the most
670
00:34:06,916 --> 00:34:08,918
heavily trafficked sites
on earth, Wikipedia,
671
00:34:09,002 --> 00:34:12,213
in what looks to be the biggest
online protest ever conducted.
672
00:34:12,297 --> 00:34:15,091
[Lawrence Lessig]
And of course, when the
fight on the Internet exploded
673
00:34:15,175 --> 00:34:16,760
and people started
being outraged
674
00:34:16,843 --> 00:34:19,220
and started organizing
so effectively
675
00:34:19,304 --> 00:34:21,890
across businesses
and non-commercial sector.
676
00:34:21,973 --> 00:34:25,518
And I think here, Wikipedia was
the most important contributor,
677
00:34:25,602 --> 00:34:27,562
because their motives
could not be questioned.
678
00:34:27,687 --> 00:34:29,898
They're not playing a game
to get bigger profits.
679
00:34:30,023 --> 00:34:32,192
They're just protecting
their opportunity
680
00:34:32,275 --> 00:34:35,111
to provide important free
information on the Internet.
681
00:34:35,195 --> 00:34:37,739
And when push came to shove,
you know,
682
00:34:37,822 --> 00:34:40,116
millions of people
summoned by Wikipedia
683
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,951
turned out to be more
powerful than Chris Dodd,
684
00:34:42,035 --> 00:34:43,828
and he was furious.
685
00:34:43,912 --> 00:34:47,248
[male newscaster]
Top lobbyist for Hollywood
exclusively told Fox
686
00:34:47,332 --> 00:34:48,917
his industry is threatening
687
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,668
to cut off money
to the president.
688
00:34:50,752 --> 00:34:52,086
Don't make the false assumption
this year
689
00:34:52,170 --> 00:34:53,755
that because we did it
in years past,
690
00:34:53,838 --> 00:34:55,048
we're gonna do it this year.
691
00:34:55,131 --> 00:34:57,091
This industry is watching
very carefully
692
00:34:57,175 --> 00:34:59,886
who's gonna stand up for them
when their job is at stake.
693
00:35:00,094 --> 00:35:03,181
[Lawrence Lessig]
Then it was like
this blatant display
694
00:35:03,264 --> 00:35:06,309
of quid pro quo
kind of threat.
695
00:35:06,392 --> 00:35:08,895
"Okay fine, you're not gonna
support our SOPA/PIPA,
696
00:35:08,978 --> 00:35:10,855
don't come to us
for campaign money."
697
00:35:10,939 --> 00:35:12,941
Now, on the one hand,
everybody in Washington knows
698
00:35:13,024 --> 00:35:14,734
that's the way things work,
699
00:35:14,818 --> 00:35:17,779
but on the other hand,
to be so blatant about it
700
00:35:17,946 --> 00:35:21,783
was really quite
outrageous and stupid
701
00:35:21,866 --> 00:35:24,202
because after he said that,
702
00:35:24,410 --> 00:35:26,621
what Senator could afford
to change his vote?
703
00:35:26,788 --> 00:35:29,249
If you do, it's obviously
you're doing it in response
704
00:35:29,332 --> 00:35:31,209
to the threat from the MPAA,
705
00:35:31,292 --> 00:35:34,003
which demonstrates
the power of the MPAA
706
00:35:34,087 --> 00:35:35,922
to force you to do something
you otherwise wouldn't do.
707
00:35:36,005 --> 00:35:37,882
It was a moment where
the industry wakes up
708
00:35:37,966 --> 00:35:41,719
to recognize that they actually
don't control the field,
709
00:35:42,136 --> 00:35:46,140
that you know,
when the giant was sleeping,
710
00:35:46,975 --> 00:35:48,810
they could get
all sorts of things through,
711
00:35:48,893 --> 00:35:50,353
but the giant has woken up.
712
00:35:51,062 --> 00:35:54,232
And every time
we can frame these issues
713
00:35:54,315 --> 00:35:56,401
in a way that
plugs in to these,
714
00:35:56,734 --> 00:35:58,069
this interest of the Internet,
715
00:35:58,152 --> 00:35:59,737
which is this
interesting libertarian
716
00:36:00,029 --> 00:36:02,907
and liberal alliance,
the Internet's gonna wake up.
717
00:36:03,116 --> 00:36:04,826
[male newscaster]
Senate support
has fallen apart.
718
00:36:04,909 --> 00:36:08,913
Now majority leader Harry Reid
has scrapped Tuesday's vote.
719
00:36:08,997 --> 00:36:11,666
In the House, similar bill,
same political problems,
720
00:36:11,833 --> 00:36:13,793
and the Speaker is urging
committee leaders
721
00:36:13,877 --> 00:36:15,336
to just work this out.
722
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,089
[Aaron Swartz]
The people rose up
723
00:36:18,172 --> 00:36:20,008
and they caused
a sea change in Washington.
724
00:36:20,174 --> 00:36:22,719
Not the press, which
refused to cover the story.
725
00:36:22,802 --> 00:36:24,637
Just coincidentally,
their parent companies
726
00:36:24,721 --> 00:36:26,723
all happened to be
lobbying for the bill.
727
00:36:26,806 --> 00:36:28,808
It was really
stopped by the people.
728
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:30,226
They killed the bill dead.
729
00:36:31,144 --> 00:36:35,231
So dead that it's kind
of hard to believe this story,
730
00:36:36,316 --> 00:36:37,901
hard to remember how close
731
00:36:37,984 --> 00:36:39,736
it all came
to actually passing.
732
00:36:39,819 --> 00:36:41,738
But it wasn't
a dream or a nightmare.
733
00:36:41,863 --> 00:36:45,033
It was all very real,
and it will happen again.
734
00:36:45,116 --> 00:36:47,577
Sure, it will have
yet another name,
735
00:36:47,660 --> 00:36:50,705
and maybe a different excuse,
but make no mistake.
736
00:36:51,456 --> 00:36:52,832
The enemies of the freedom
to connect
737
00:36:52,916 --> 00:36:54,250
have not disappeared.
738
00:36:55,001 --> 00:36:58,421
The fire in those politicians
eyes hasn't been put out.
739
00:36:59,505 --> 00:37:03,092
[Kim Dotcom]
They had an agenda
that is about
740
00:37:03,217 --> 00:37:05,470
more control over the Internet,
741
00:37:05,887 --> 00:37:08,181
and they made
a strategic decision to say,
742
00:37:08,264 --> 00:37:11,351
"Who are we going to take out
to send a strong message?"
743
00:37:11,684 --> 00:37:13,019
And I was the one.
744
00:37:13,645 --> 00:37:18,650
[triumphant instrumental
music playing]
745
00:37:53,184 --> 00:37:55,645
[Special Tactics Officer]
Mr. Dotcom has been shown
746
00:37:55,728 --> 00:37:59,148
the warrant to search
the property.
He acknowledges it.
747
00:37:59,607 --> 00:38:02,860
[female newscaster] The Mega
case against Megaupload
is still at a standstill.
748
00:38:03,152 --> 00:38:05,363
Prosecution says it cannot
gather enough evidence
749
00:38:05,446 --> 00:38:09,075
against Megaupload founder
Kim Dotcom in a timely matter
750
00:38:09,158 --> 00:38:11,411
because there's simply
too much on the servers.
751
00:38:11,494 --> 00:38:13,079
This comes after
a local court rule
752
00:38:13,162 --> 00:38:15,999
that the confiscation
of his fortune was illegal.
753
00:38:16,082 --> 00:38:17,792
Now, New Zealand
won't extradite Kim
754
00:38:17,875 --> 00:38:20,253
until the evidence against him
is fully accounted for.
755
00:38:20,336 --> 00:38:23,923
So, what's gonna happen to the
50 million user accounts' data
756
00:38:24,007 --> 00:38:26,843
that was shut down with
the take down of Megaupload,
757
00:38:27,010 --> 00:38:28,553
and what does this mean
for copyright battle
758
00:38:28,636 --> 00:38:30,513
and Internet freedoms
at large?
759
00:38:30,596 --> 00:38:32,473
Aaron Swartz, founder
and executive director
760
00:38:32,557 --> 00:38:35,143
of Demand Progress
joins me now.
761
00:38:35,226 --> 00:38:37,186
Do you think that this
is just the content industry
762
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:40,106
having the government
do their bidding for them?
763
00:38:40,189 --> 00:38:44,819
I mean, this did happen days
after SOPA was knocked down.
764
00:38:44,902 --> 00:38:46,696
Yeah, I mean,
there's no question
765
00:38:46,779 --> 00:38:48,740
that the content industry
is behind all of this,
766
00:38:48,823 --> 00:38:51,034
and it's ridiculous
that the government
is doing their bidding.
767
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,413
[Kim Dotcom]
It's all a game
to them, really,
768
00:38:55,496 --> 00:38:57,165
and we are all
the little puppets
769
00:38:57,248 --> 00:38:59,042
that they think
they can kick around.
770
00:38:59,125 --> 00:39:00,877
So we need to organize.
771
00:39:01,044 --> 00:39:05,173
There needs to be a movement
that identifies these things
772
00:39:05,256 --> 00:39:08,134
and fights that, not with
shutting down websites,
773
00:39:08,217 --> 00:39:10,511
but with real protests.
774
00:39:10,595 --> 00:39:14,223
Going out on the streets,
writing to politicians,
775
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:17,518
and especially,
most importantly,
776
00:39:17,602 --> 00:39:22,273
don't vote for the guys
that are against Internet
freedom.
777
00:39:22,356 --> 00:39:23,733
I'm not Aaron Swartz.
778
00:39:23,816 --> 00:39:26,152
Aaron Swartz is my hero.
He was selfless.
779
00:39:26,402 --> 00:39:29,405
He is completely
the opposite of me,
780
00:39:29,489 --> 00:39:31,657
but I mean,
he stopped SOPA.
781
00:39:32,158 --> 00:39:36,204
[Peter Ludlow]
Aaron was able to mobilize
the Internet through Reddit
782
00:39:36,287 --> 00:39:39,540
and other places,
and he shut it down.
783
00:39:40,208 --> 00:39:45,171
Now, we say, "Wow, what a hero!
Aaron, that's tremendous."
784
00:39:45,254 --> 00:39:48,966
But you think now, how many
billions of dollars were lost
785
00:39:50,468 --> 00:39:53,137
by multinational corporations
because of that?
786
00:39:54,222 --> 00:39:57,183
Okay, and how many
more billions of dollars
are gonna be lost
787
00:39:57,266 --> 00:40:00,978
when the next one comes along,
you know, when TPP comes along?
788
00:40:02,146 --> 00:40:04,315
You need to shut this kid up
789
00:40:04,690 --> 00:40:06,818
and you need to
shut him down.
790
00:40:07,527 --> 00:40:10,113
Right? And you need to do
whatever it takes to do that.
791
00:40:35,888 --> 00:40:37,014
I was in Mexico.
792
00:40:37,098 --> 00:40:39,267
I was giving a...
I just finished giving a talk,
793
00:40:39,350 --> 00:40:40,643
and I got a call
from his friend.
794
00:40:40,852 --> 00:40:42,270
That's when I learned.
795
00:40:45,648 --> 00:40:47,608
I went onto the Internet
to see if anybody had noticed,
796
00:40:47,692 --> 00:40:50,987
and had this thought,
"Well, what if nobody notices?"
797
00:40:51,070 --> 00:40:53,656
And then finally fell asleep
at about 2 in the morning,
798
00:40:55,116 --> 00:40:57,160
and I had to get up
to catch a plane at 5.
799
00:40:58,369 --> 00:41:01,831
When I got up,
I looked on the net and
it had just begun to explode.
800
00:41:03,749 --> 00:41:06,127
And I furiously
typed a blog post
801
00:41:06,210 --> 00:41:08,337
and then raced to the airport.
802
00:41:09,338 --> 00:41:11,424
And then on the flight
from Mexico to someplace,
803
00:41:11,507 --> 00:41:14,385
I don't know where it landed,
someplace in Texas I think.
804
00:41:14,468 --> 00:41:18,806
I had written another very
angry, long blog post about,
805
00:41:19,265 --> 00:41:22,143
"Improsecutor as bully"
was the title,
806
00:41:22,226 --> 00:41:24,020
which I posted when I landed.
807
00:41:24,103 --> 00:41:27,607
And you know, I think it was
the thing I've written
808
00:41:27,690 --> 00:41:29,192
that's been read
by the most people ever.
809
00:41:29,275 --> 00:41:33,529
I mean, it just became
the kind of defining frame
810
00:41:33,613 --> 00:41:35,281
for what had happened.
811
00:41:42,788 --> 00:41:47,793
Yeah, that's our government,
our kids.
812
00:41:52,465 --> 00:41:55,426
[male newscaster]
There's a profound sense of
loss tonight in Highland Park,
813
00:41:55,509 --> 00:41:58,721
Aaron Swartz's hometown,
as loved ones say good bye
814
00:41:58,804 --> 00:42:01,265
to one of the Internet's
brightest lights.
815
00:42:01,349 --> 00:42:04,518
He hadn't told me
what was going on
when we first started dating.
816
00:42:04,602 --> 00:42:06,520
All I knew was that
there was something bad
817
00:42:06,604 --> 00:42:07,521
happening in his life,
818
00:42:07,605 --> 00:42:09,732
and that I was
a good distraction from it.
819
00:42:12,693 --> 00:42:14,570
[Lawrence Lessig]
Yeah, Aaron was depressed.
820
00:42:14,654 --> 00:42:16,405
He was rationally depressed.
821
00:42:17,490 --> 00:42:19,867
You know, he was
losing everything.
822
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,081
[Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman]
The whole thing was so hard
and so stressful.
823
00:42:25,456 --> 00:42:27,708
He carried so much
of the weight of it on his own.
824
00:42:28,251 --> 00:42:30,962
He didn't wanna involve
any of his friends.
825
00:42:31,045 --> 00:42:33,965
[Lawrence Lessig]
I don't have patience
for people who wanna say,
826
00:42:34,048 --> 00:42:36,259
"Oh, this was
just a crazy person.
827
00:42:36,342 --> 00:42:38,970
This was just a person
with a psychological problem."
828
00:42:39,345 --> 00:42:42,974
This was somebody
who was pushed to the edge
829
00:42:43,266 --> 00:42:46,852
by what I think of as a kind
of bullying by our government.
830
00:42:51,691 --> 00:42:54,485
All of us think there
are a thousand things
we could have done,
831
00:42:55,569 --> 00:43:00,658
a thousand things
we could have done,
832
00:43:00,908 --> 00:43:02,868
and we have to do,
833
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:07,331
because Aaron Swartz
is now an icon and ideal.
834
00:43:08,332 --> 00:43:10,960
He is what we will
be fighting for, all of us,
835
00:43:11,836 --> 00:43:13,671
for the rest of our lives.
836
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:17,300
When we turn
armed agents of the law
837
00:43:17,383 --> 00:43:20,720
on citizens trying to increase
access to knowledge,
838
00:43:20,803 --> 00:43:22,805
we've broken the rule of law,
839
00:43:22,888 --> 00:43:25,433
we've desecrated
the temple of justice.
840
00:43:25,516 --> 00:43:28,561
Aaron Swartz
was not a criminal.
841
00:43:29,145 --> 00:43:32,440
When the U.S. Attorney told
Aaron he had to plead guilty
842
00:43:32,523 --> 00:43:36,777
to 13 felonies for attempting
to propagate knowledge
843
00:43:37,069 --> 00:43:39,405
before she'd even
consider a deal,
844
00:43:39,488 --> 00:43:41,324
that was an abuse of power,
845
00:43:41,407 --> 00:43:44,618
a misuse of the criminal
justice system.
846
00:43:45,578 --> 00:43:48,831
That was a crime
against justice.
847
00:43:53,294 --> 00:43:54,587
It doesn't change.
848
00:43:54,670 --> 00:43:56,464
No, it never changes.
849
00:43:58,382 --> 00:43:59,925
Yeah, it's always there.
850
00:44:00,009 --> 00:44:05,264
So... you know, he came to me,
and it was December 2006.
851
00:44:05,348 --> 00:44:08,559
He was in Berlin for the Chaos
Computer Conference,
852
00:44:10,186 --> 00:44:12,897
and I was in Berlin
for the year,
so he came to visit.
853
00:44:12,980 --> 00:44:16,275
And we talked for
the afternoon and evening,
854
00:44:17,860 --> 00:44:21,364
and we talked about
the issues I was working on,
855
00:44:21,447 --> 00:44:24,116
copyright issues
and the Internet issues,
856
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,410
network neutrality
was one of the issues.
857
00:44:26,786 --> 00:44:29,372
And he just--
you know, he said to me,
858
00:44:29,455 --> 00:44:33,417
"Why do you expect that you're
ever gonna win on these issues
859
00:44:33,501 --> 00:44:36,879
so long as there's this corrupt
system of our government?"
860
00:44:36,962 --> 00:44:39,298
And I said to him, "Well,
you know, it's not expertise.
861
00:44:39,382 --> 00:44:40,549
It's not my field."
862
00:44:41,092 --> 00:44:44,428
And he said, "I get that as
a professor, but as a citizen,
863
00:44:45,846 --> 00:44:47,389
how are you gonna win?"
864
00:44:47,598 --> 00:44:52,019
And it... you know, it is
that Aaron-type question
865
00:44:52,103 --> 00:44:54,688
because it's implicitly
suggesting,
866
00:44:54,772 --> 00:44:56,690
"You have a role.
It's your job."
867
00:44:56,774 --> 00:44:58,692
You know, there's not
a debate about that.
868
00:44:58,776 --> 00:45:00,528
It's just now
that we know it's your job,
869
00:45:00,611 --> 00:45:03,864
then what are you gonna do
to carry through on your work?
870
00:45:04,532 --> 00:45:07,451
And that was
very powerful with me.
871
00:45:14,125 --> 00:45:15,042
[Piers Morgan]
Breaking news.
872
00:45:15,126 --> 00:45:17,378
U.S. intelligence agencies
have been secretly operating
873
00:45:17,461 --> 00:45:21,173
a broad data mining program
that collected e-mail, photos,
874
00:45:21,257 --> 00:45:24,260
and just about everything else
from private communications
875
00:45:24,343 --> 00:45:25,886
from most Americans.
876
00:45:25,970 --> 00:45:28,264
That's according
to the Washington Post
and the Guardian.
877
00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:31,725
The Post says that Microsoft,
Yahoo, Google, Facebook, AOL,
878
00:45:31,809 --> 00:45:34,687
Skype, YouTube,
and Apple are all involved.
879
00:45:34,770 --> 00:45:36,814
Well, joining me now
is reporter Glenn Greenwald.
880
00:45:36,897 --> 00:45:38,983
Tell me briefly what
the latest development is.
881
00:45:39,066 --> 00:45:42,444
What this program enables the
National Security Agency to do
882
00:45:42,528 --> 00:45:44,822
is to reach directly
into the servers
883
00:45:44,905 --> 00:45:48,033
of the largest Internet
companies in the world,
884
00:45:48,117 --> 00:45:50,035
things that virtually
every human being
885
00:45:50,119 --> 00:45:52,454
in the Western world now uses
886
00:45:52,538 --> 00:45:53,956
to communicate
with one another,
887
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:56,834
and take whatever it is
that they want without
any checks of any kind.
888
00:45:56,917 --> 00:45:58,544
There's no courts
looking over their shoulder
889
00:45:58,627 --> 00:45:59,920
to see what they're taking,
890
00:46:00,004 --> 00:46:01,547
and they don't
even have the check
891
00:46:01,630 --> 00:46:03,424
that they have to go
to the Internet companies
892
00:46:03,507 --> 00:46:04,550
and ask for it any longer.
893
00:46:04,633 --> 00:46:06,302
They've been given
or have taken
894
00:46:06,385 --> 00:46:08,596
direct access into the pipes
895
00:46:08,679 --> 00:46:10,681
where all of these
conversations take place
896
00:46:10,806 --> 00:46:14,059
and can suck up whatever
it is that they want
at any given moment.
897
00:46:15,728 --> 00:46:19,398
[ominous music playing]
898
00:46:28,574 --> 00:46:34,205
[Edward Snowden]
I don't wanna live in a world
where everything that I say,
899
00:46:34,288 --> 00:46:35,789
everything I do,
everyone I talk to,
900
00:46:35,873 --> 00:46:38,959
every expression
of creativity or love
901
00:46:39,043 --> 00:46:41,503
or friendship is recorded.
902
00:46:42,046 --> 00:46:45,007
That's not something
I'm willing to support,
903
00:46:45,090 --> 00:46:46,425
it's not something
I'm willing to build,
904
00:46:46,508 --> 00:46:49,261
and it's not something
I'm willing to live under.
905
00:46:56,185 --> 00:46:58,395
[Dick Cheney]
Well, I'm deeply
suspicious, obviously,
906
00:46:58,479 --> 00:46:59,647
because he went to China.
907
00:46:59,730 --> 00:47:01,982
That's not a place where
you'd ordinarily wanna go
908
00:47:02,066 --> 00:47:03,901
if you're interested
in freedom.
909
00:47:03,984 --> 00:47:05,527
[male]
It's sad, right?
910
00:47:05,611 --> 00:47:07,446
We've made treason cool.
911
00:47:07,529 --> 00:47:11,450
I mean, we need to get very,
very serious about treason.
912
00:47:11,659 --> 00:47:13,661
You bring back
the death penalty.
913
00:47:15,287 --> 00:47:17,957
[Edward Snowden]
Any analyst at any time
can target anyone,
914
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,625
any selector, anywhere.
915
00:47:19,708 --> 00:47:22,670
I, sitting at my desk,
certainly had the authorities
916
00:47:22,753 --> 00:47:26,674
to wiretap anyone from you
or your accountant
917
00:47:26,757 --> 00:47:28,717
to a federal judge,
to even the president
918
00:47:28,801 --> 00:47:30,594
if I had a personal e-mail.
919
00:47:30,761 --> 00:47:33,764
Prism is about content.
920
00:47:33,847 --> 00:47:35,641
It's a program through which
921
00:47:35,724 --> 00:47:38,602
the government could
compel corporate America.
922
00:47:38,686 --> 00:47:41,647
It could sort of deputize
corporate America
923
00:47:41,730 --> 00:47:44,858
to do its dirty work
for the NSA.
924
00:47:44,942 --> 00:47:49,363
The NSA's own slides
refer to it as direct access.
925
00:47:49,738 --> 00:47:50,948
But the bottom line is
926
00:47:51,031 --> 00:47:54,243
when we talk about
how this information is given,
927
00:47:55,077 --> 00:47:58,289
it's coming from
the companies themselves.
928
00:48:03,919 --> 00:48:05,879
[Tim Wu]
You imagine a partnership
with Facebook
929
00:48:05,963 --> 00:48:07,881
and the federal government.
930
00:48:07,965 --> 00:48:11,677
Facebook could do a lot that
would be like
intelligence work.
931
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,847
They know a lot about us,
and so this is the problem
932
00:48:14,930 --> 00:48:16,974
of overly-concentrated
private power
933
00:48:17,057 --> 00:48:21,103
is it becomes an instrument
of government action.
934
00:48:21,478 --> 00:48:24,231
You don't have to have done
anything wrong.
935
00:48:24,398 --> 00:48:26,066
You simply have to eventually
936
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:29,653
fall under suspicion from
somebody, even by a wrong call,
937
00:48:29,737 --> 00:48:32,614
and then they can use
the system to go back in time
938
00:48:32,698 --> 00:48:34,992
and scrutinize every decision
you've ever made.
939
00:48:35,075 --> 00:48:36,535
I think he's a traitor.
940
00:48:36,618 --> 00:48:38,829
[Edward Snowden]
Every friend you've ever
discussed something with.
941
00:48:38,912 --> 00:48:40,372
He's a traitor.
942
00:48:40,456 --> 00:48:43,584
And paint anyone
in the context of a wrongdoer.
943
00:48:43,667 --> 00:48:45,627
No, I don't think Mr. Snowden
was a patriot.
944
00:48:45,794 --> 00:48:47,504
I think what we have
in Edward Snowden
945
00:48:47,588 --> 00:48:49,590
is just a narcissistic
young man.
946
00:48:49,673 --> 00:48:52,176
He is not a patriot.
He is not a hero.
947
00:48:52,259 --> 00:48:55,054
It is literally,
not figuratively,
948
00:48:55,137 --> 00:48:57,848
literally gut-wrenching
to see this happen
949
00:48:57,931 --> 00:49:01,602
because of the huge,
grave damage
950
00:49:01,685 --> 00:49:04,938
it does to our
intelligence capabilities.
951
00:49:05,022 --> 00:49:08,650
If I had just wanted
to harm the U.S., you know,
952
00:49:09,902 --> 00:49:13,530
you could shut down
the surveillance system
in an afternoon.
953
00:49:13,655 --> 00:49:15,532
[interviewer]
You do not dispute
that Edward Snowden
954
00:49:15,616 --> 00:49:17,284
has broken the law, do you?
955
00:49:17,368 --> 00:49:19,661
No, I think he's very clear
about the fact that he did it
956
00:49:19,745 --> 00:49:21,955
because his conscience
compelled him to do so,
957
00:49:22,039 --> 00:49:24,458
just like Daniel Ellsberg did
50 years ago.
958
00:49:24,541 --> 00:49:26,210
When he released
the Pentagon Papers,
959
00:49:26,293 --> 00:49:28,087
and also admits
that he broke the law.
960
00:49:28,170 --> 00:49:29,713
I think the question,
though is
961
00:49:29,797 --> 00:49:31,840
how can he be
charged with espionage?
962
00:49:31,924 --> 00:49:33,717
He didn't work for
a foreign government.
963
00:49:33,801 --> 00:49:35,135
He could have
sold this information
964
00:49:35,219 --> 00:49:37,221
for millions of dollars
and enriched himself.
965
00:49:37,304 --> 00:49:38,847
He didn't do any of that other.
966
00:49:38,931 --> 00:49:40,349
He stepped forward,
967
00:49:40,432 --> 00:49:42,351
and as we want people to do
in a democracy,
968
00:49:42,434 --> 00:49:44,311
as a government official,
learned of wrong doing
969
00:49:44,395 --> 00:49:46,772
and exposed it so we could
have a democratic debate
970
00:49:46,855 --> 00:49:48,190
about the spying system.
971
00:49:48,273 --> 00:49:50,567
Do we really wanna put people
like that in prison for life
972
00:49:50,943 --> 00:49:53,612
When all they're doing
is telling us as citizens
973
00:49:53,695 --> 00:49:56,156
what our political officials
are doing in the dark?
974
00:49:58,033 --> 00:50:00,744
[female newscaster]
Edward Snowden,
the man who told the world
975
00:50:00,828 --> 00:50:02,913
about the federal government's
sweeping top secret
976
00:50:02,996 --> 00:50:04,832
domestic spying program
977
00:50:04,915 --> 00:50:07,584
is on the move
as we speak this morning.
978
00:50:08,919 --> 00:50:11,547
[Edward Snowden]
If they wanna get you,
they'll get you in time.
979
00:50:11,630 --> 00:50:13,465
But at the same time,
980
00:50:13,549 --> 00:50:16,260
you have to make
a determination about
what it is
981
00:50:16,343 --> 00:50:17,302
that's important to you.
982
00:50:17,386 --> 00:50:19,096
[male newscaster]
Officials in Hong Kong
say Snowden,
983
00:50:19,179 --> 00:50:20,472
who's been charged
with espionage
984
00:50:20,556 --> 00:50:22,766
by the U.S. Government,
boarded a plane overnight.
985
00:50:22,850 --> 00:50:24,184
He will soon land in Russia,
986
00:50:24,268 --> 00:50:26,478
and this morning,
the group WikiLeaks
987
00:50:26,562 --> 00:50:28,939
claims to be helping
Snowden get away.
988
00:50:29,022 --> 00:50:31,567
It's been a stunning
turn of events here today.
989
00:50:31,650 --> 00:50:35,404
Edward Snowden, the man
wanted on charges of espionage,
990
00:50:35,529 --> 00:50:39,158
suddenly out of the country,
managing to board a flight
991
00:50:39,241 --> 00:50:41,618
from Hong Kong to,
we believe, Russia.
992
00:50:41,702 --> 00:50:43,245
[male 2] There was
no way to arrest him,
993
00:50:43,328 --> 00:50:44,705
according to the Hong Kong
authorities,
994
00:50:44,788 --> 00:50:47,374
and, quote, "No legal basis
to restrict Mr. Snowden
995
00:50:47,458 --> 00:50:48,876
from leaving Hong Kong."
996
00:50:48,959 --> 00:50:50,878
So, is there any pressure
the United States can bring
997
00:50:50,961 --> 00:50:52,880
to bear on the Russians,
with whom we already have
998
00:50:52,963 --> 00:50:54,798
an icy relationship,
999
00:50:54,882 --> 00:50:56,884
to stop him from
carrying out this itinerary?
1000
00:50:56,967 --> 00:50:58,302
[George] We're running
this down right now,
1001
00:50:58,385 --> 00:51:00,387
but apparently though, there's
nothing The United States
can do
1002
00:51:00,471 --> 00:51:02,806
as long as Snowden
remains in that airport,
1003
00:51:02,890 --> 00:51:05,851
if he lands in Moscow
in transit to Cuba.
1004
00:51:05,934 --> 00:51:09,313
Apparently he's booked on a
2 pm. flight tomorrow to Cuba,
1005
00:51:09,396 --> 00:51:11,523
and some reports
that he would then go on,
1006
00:51:11,607 --> 00:51:13,192
as you said to Venezuela.
1007
00:51:13,275 --> 00:51:15,110
[female newscaster]
People are wondering
how was this man
1008
00:51:15,194 --> 00:51:16,695
able to outmaneuver
the U.S.,
1009
00:51:16,778 --> 00:51:19,406
the top spy agency
in the world, not once
but now twice,
1010
00:51:19,490 --> 00:51:20,365
if we can't even locate him.
1011
00:51:20,449 --> 00:51:23,452
That is the big question.
He was accessing
all of this information
1012
00:51:23,535 --> 00:51:25,954
from Booz Allen in Hawaii,
1013
00:51:26,038 --> 00:51:28,624
and the alarm bells
didn't go off in a way
1014
00:51:28,707 --> 00:51:31,752
that he could be stopped before
he slipped out of the country,
1015
00:51:31,919 --> 00:51:34,254
into Hong Kong,
and now on his way to Moscow.
1016
00:51:39,259 --> 00:51:41,803
[male newscaster]
Mr. Snowden has indeed
arrived in Moscow.
1017
00:51:41,887 --> 00:51:45,015
It was completely unexpected.
1018
00:51:45,098 --> 00:51:47,893
I have not called
President Putin personally,
1019
00:51:47,976 --> 00:51:50,229
and the reason is because
I shouldn't have to.
1020
00:51:52,105 --> 00:51:53,815
No, I'm not gonna be
scrambling jets
1021
00:51:53,899 --> 00:51:57,903
to get a 29-year-old... hacker
1022
00:51:57,986 --> 00:52:00,322
[air traffic controller]
Bravo 001, do you need
any assistance upon landing?
1023
00:52:00,405 --> 00:52:03,909
[pilot] No, we need to land
because we are not...
1024
00:52:03,992 --> 00:52:06,203
we cannot get
a correct indication.
1025
00:52:06,328 --> 00:52:08,038
Evo Morales,
Bolivia's leader,
1026
00:52:08,121 --> 00:52:10,040
was forced to spend
the night in Vienna
1027
00:52:10,123 --> 00:52:11,875
after his plane was rerouted.
1028
00:52:11,959 --> 00:52:13,919
Bolivian officials say
it all stemmed from a rumor
1029
00:52:14,002 --> 00:52:17,673
that Snowden had
hitched a ride from Russia
1030
00:52:17,756 --> 00:52:19,091
on the president's jet.
1031
00:52:19,883 --> 00:52:22,719
[male newscaster]
Edward Snowden, we are told,
has now walked free,
1032
00:52:22,803 --> 00:52:24,137
and actually crossed
the immigration zone
1033
00:52:24,221 --> 00:52:26,890
and entered Russia officially.
1034
00:52:27,683 --> 00:52:30,561
[Peter Ludlow]
He saw that if he just
continued to let things happen
1035
00:52:30,644 --> 00:52:32,437
as they were happening,
1036
00:52:32,521 --> 00:52:34,731
this policy would
go on unchecked,
1037
00:52:35,315 --> 00:52:38,819
And he was gonna have to
go against his supervisors,
1038
00:52:38,902 --> 00:52:41,738
he was gonna have to break
organizational protocol,
1039
00:52:41,822 --> 00:52:45,576
and he did it because
he could not participate
1040
00:52:45,659 --> 00:52:48,870
in a system that was
doing something evil.
1041
00:52:49,788 --> 00:52:53,083
[Edward Snowden]
When I really came to
struggle with these issues,
1042
00:52:53,166 --> 00:52:54,585
I thought to myself,
1043
00:52:54,668 --> 00:52:57,713
"How can I do this
in the most responsible way
1044
00:52:57,796 --> 00:53:00,549
that maximizes
the public benefit,
1045
00:53:01,174 --> 00:53:02,884
while minimizing the risks?"
1046
00:53:03,969 --> 00:53:07,598
Out of going to Congress
when there was no laws,
1047
00:53:07,681 --> 00:53:10,892
there were no legal protections
for a private employee,
1048
00:53:10,976 --> 00:53:13,437
a contractor in intelligence
like myself,
1049
00:53:14,187 --> 00:53:16,481
there was a risk
that I would be buried
1050
00:53:16,565 --> 00:53:17,691
along with the information,
1051
00:53:17,774 --> 00:53:19,526
and the public
would never find out.
1052
00:53:19,776 --> 00:53:22,696
But the First Amendment
of the United States
Constitution
1053
00:53:22,779 --> 00:53:26,241
guarantees us
a free press for a reason,
1054
00:53:26,742 --> 00:53:29,328
and that's to enable
an adversarial press
1055
00:53:29,911 --> 00:53:32,831
to challenge the government
to have a dialogue and debate
1056
00:53:32,914 --> 00:53:35,459
about how we can
inform the public
1057
00:53:35,542 --> 00:53:38,337
about matters
of vital importance
1058
00:53:39,296 --> 00:53:41,965
without putting our
national security at risk.
1059
00:53:45,010 --> 00:53:47,929
[Lawrence Lessig]
The whole way
to think about security
1060
00:53:48,013 --> 00:53:49,890
in the big data world
is different.
1061
00:53:49,973 --> 00:53:52,267
You know, we use to have
government surveillance
1062
00:53:52,517 --> 00:53:53,894
that was episodic.
1063
00:53:54,269 --> 00:53:56,813
First, physical invasions
episodically.
1064
00:53:56,897 --> 00:53:58,899
You know, the police
would break into your house
1065
00:53:58,982 --> 00:54:00,108
and search for something.
1066
00:54:00,651 --> 00:54:03,612
And then virtual invasions
that were episodic.
1067
00:54:03,695 --> 00:54:04,988
They would tap your phone.
1068
00:54:05,072 --> 00:54:06,239
But because it was episodic,
1069
00:54:06,323 --> 00:54:08,158
the legal system was pretty
good at handling it
1070
00:54:08,241 --> 00:54:10,744
because every time
you wanted to intervene,
1071
00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:14,206
the question was
did you have enough evidence
1072
00:54:14,289 --> 00:54:17,542
to justify that breach
of somebody's privacy?
1073
00:54:18,543 --> 00:54:20,295
But the architecture
of information now
1074
00:54:20,379 --> 00:54:22,172
is persistent surveillance.
1075
00:54:22,255 --> 00:54:24,049
There's always surveillance,
1076
00:54:24,132 --> 00:54:26,718
constant data gathered
in every single point.
1077
00:54:27,844 --> 00:54:29,346
And in that world,
1078
00:54:30,347 --> 00:54:32,307
the issue isn't so much
whether there's surveillance
1079
00:54:32,391 --> 00:54:34,476
the issue is
what are the restrictions
1080
00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:38,105
on how you use the data
you have collected,
1081
00:54:38,188 --> 00:54:41,024
and how do we have confidence
in those restrictions
1082
00:54:41,108 --> 00:54:43,568
or confidence that those
restrictions are being
respected?
1083
00:54:44,486 --> 00:54:47,072
And that's gonna require
a different way of thinking
1084
00:54:47,155 --> 00:54:48,740
about protection,
1085
00:54:49,408 --> 00:54:51,368
and it's not...
1086
00:54:51,451 --> 00:54:53,912
it's completely obvious
that we're nowhere close
1087
00:54:53,995 --> 00:54:55,622
to working that part out.
1088
00:54:58,792 --> 00:55:01,169
[Edward Snowden]
To see officials
testifying under oath
1089
00:55:01,253 --> 00:55:02,838
that there have been no abuses,
1090
00:55:02,921 --> 00:55:05,757
that there have been no
violations of the NSA's rules,
1091
00:55:06,591 --> 00:55:08,927
when we knew
this story was coming.
1092
00:55:09,386 --> 00:55:14,099
Does the NSA collect
any type of data at all
1093
00:55:14,182 --> 00:55:17,018
on millions or hundreds
of millions of Americans?
1094
00:55:18,311 --> 00:55:19,813
No sir.
1095
00:55:20,355 --> 00:55:21,481
It does not?
1096
00:55:22,733 --> 00:55:24,151
Not wittingly.
1097
00:55:24,609 --> 00:55:28,655
The NSA lied about
the existence of this tool.
1098
00:55:29,156 --> 00:55:32,951
So, I responded in what
I thought was
the most truthful,
1099
00:55:33,034 --> 00:55:36,163
or least untruthful manner,
by saying no.
1100
00:55:36,329 --> 00:55:40,584
[Rand Paul]
Mr. Clapper lied in Congress,
in defiance of the law,
1101
00:55:40,667 --> 00:55:42,335
in the name of security.
1102
00:55:42,419 --> 00:55:45,130
Mr. Snowden told the truth
in the name of privacy.
1103
00:55:45,630 --> 00:55:47,716
Mr. Snowden
hasn't lied to anyone.
1104
00:55:48,216 --> 00:55:50,218
He did break his oath
of office,
1105
00:55:50,302 --> 00:55:53,054
but part of his oath of office
is to the Constitution.
1106
00:55:53,555 --> 00:55:57,350
[female newscaster]
After all of this,
are you as amazed as I am
1107
00:55:57,642 --> 00:55:59,936
that with all of this dragnet,
1108
00:56:00,312 --> 00:56:03,482
somehow the Boston Marathon
bomber got through,
1109
00:56:03,565 --> 00:56:06,985
that Tamerlan Tsarnaev,
who had plenty of indicators
1110
00:56:07,068 --> 00:56:10,238
that he may be up to no good
on the Internet and elsewhere,
1111
00:56:10,322 --> 00:56:11,990
got through this dragnet?
1112
00:56:12,073 --> 00:56:13,867
The more information
they collect
1113
00:56:13,950 --> 00:56:16,369
about innocent Americans,
the less able they are
1114
00:56:16,453 --> 00:56:18,830
to actually prevent
terrorist attacks,
1115
00:56:18,914 --> 00:56:21,082
because at some point,
it becomes counter-productive.
1116
00:56:21,166 --> 00:56:23,001
They have so much information,
1117
00:56:23,084 --> 00:56:24,586
that they don't even
know what they have anymore
1118
00:56:24,669 --> 00:56:25,962
and they can't put it together.
1119
00:56:26,046 --> 00:56:28,507
Remember that the 9/11
commission made clear
1120
00:56:28,590 --> 00:56:29,925
that The United States
government
1121
00:56:30,008 --> 00:56:33,094
had in its possession enough
evidence to have alerted it
1122
00:56:33,178 --> 00:56:36,097
to the existence
of the 9/11 attack
1123
00:56:36,181 --> 00:56:38,475
and simply never, in its words,
connected the dots.
1124
00:56:38,558 --> 00:56:40,018
The problem was never
that they weren't
1125
00:56:40,101 --> 00:56:41,394
collecting enough information.
1126
00:56:41,478 --> 00:56:43,855
The problem is that they just
don't know what they have,
1127
00:56:43,939 --> 00:56:46,650
and the more they become
obsessed with sweeping up
1128
00:56:46,733 --> 00:56:49,945
billions of conversational
data point every day
1129
00:56:50,028 --> 00:56:52,322
and expanding
that surveillance net,
1130
00:56:52,405 --> 00:56:54,991
the less able they're gonna be
to achieve
1131
00:56:55,075 --> 00:56:57,744
what the ostensible
purpose of this program is,
1132
00:56:57,828 --> 00:56:59,996
which is to stop things like
the Boston Marathon killing,
1133
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:01,748
which they utterly
failed to do.
1134
00:57:05,877 --> 00:57:07,212
[Peter Ludlow]
People always ask me,
1135
00:57:07,295 --> 00:57:09,089
"Is Ed Snowden
a hero or a traitor?"
1136
00:57:09,172 --> 00:57:12,050
The real question is,
is what he did right or wrong?
1137
00:57:12,843 --> 00:57:14,094
Forget about whether
he's a hero.
1138
00:57:14,469 --> 00:57:16,346
It shouldn't even be
considered heroic.
1139
00:57:16,429 --> 00:57:18,181
It should be considered
his duty.
1140
00:57:18,557 --> 00:57:21,852
He has a duty to uphold
the Constitution
of the United States.
1141
00:57:22,102 --> 00:57:24,563
He has a duty
to fellow citizens
1142
00:57:24,646 --> 00:57:26,231
to see that they're
not enslaved
1143
00:57:26,314 --> 00:57:30,819
and they're not become part
of like a 1984 dystopia.
1144
00:57:31,319 --> 00:57:32,654
I don't consider him a hero.
1145
00:57:32,737 --> 00:57:35,824
I just consider him
as a guy who, on that day,
1146
00:57:35,991 --> 00:57:37,659
did what he
was supposed to do.
1147
00:57:38,243 --> 00:57:40,453
Good for him for that.
You know, for the same reason,
1148
00:57:40,537 --> 00:57:42,831
I'm not gonna call
Aaron Swartz a hero.
1149
00:57:42,914 --> 00:57:46,209
I'm gonna say he did
what he ought to do.
1150
00:57:50,505 --> 00:57:53,967
They're different forces
in these two fields, you know?
1151
00:57:54,593 --> 00:57:58,346
Aaron was in the minefield
of copyright,
1152
00:58:00,182 --> 00:58:04,352
and the pressure to be extreme
in the minefield of copyright
1153
00:58:05,854 --> 00:58:08,648
comes, in my view, from
the extraordinary influence
1154
00:58:08,732 --> 00:58:10,317
that these industries have,
1155
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,444
especially on
the Democratic Party.
1156
00:58:13,778 --> 00:58:16,489
So, you know, as much as
Obama tried to set himself up
1157
00:58:16,573 --> 00:58:18,074
as the Internet President,
1158
00:58:18,158 --> 00:58:20,410
as the person who understood
the free culture movement,
1159
00:58:20,660 --> 00:58:25,790
got the openness and the
necessity for information
to flow freely,
1160
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,086
From the very beginning,
his administration was
1161
00:58:30,921 --> 00:58:36,384
totally aligned with the most
extreme copyright positions.
1162
00:58:37,802 --> 00:58:42,390
So, they were not gonna
show any mercy
1163
00:58:42,766 --> 00:58:44,643
in a case which
implicated copyright.
1164
00:58:46,895 --> 00:58:49,481
But in the Edward Snowden
context, it's a different kind
1165
00:58:49,564 --> 00:58:51,233
monster that's driving it.
1166
00:58:51,316 --> 00:58:54,986
It's this, you know,
national security fight
1167
00:58:56,238 --> 00:58:58,782
of a "War on Terror"-like
monster.
1168
00:59:00,659 --> 00:59:04,788
And Obama has
a very strong desire
1169
00:59:04,871 --> 00:59:07,540
to appear as tough
as he possibly can,
1170
00:59:07,624 --> 00:59:09,834
especially to the military,
1171
00:59:11,586 --> 00:59:16,383
and so here too,
we will not show any mercy.
1172
00:59:16,466 --> 00:59:18,468
We will be as tough
as we possibly can.
1173
00:59:19,511 --> 00:59:21,721
[Tim Wu] It's very easy
to scare the public,
1174
00:59:23,390 --> 00:59:25,433
particularly when it's
something like the Internet,
1175
00:59:25,517 --> 00:59:27,185
cyber security,
some kind of danger
1176
00:59:27,269 --> 00:59:29,104
that people don't really
understand very well.
1177
00:59:30,355 --> 00:59:33,275
And I think a responsible
approach
1178
00:59:33,358 --> 00:59:34,359
is not to scare the public,
1179
00:59:34,442 --> 00:59:36,444
but to be honest
about the threat.
1180
00:59:36,528 --> 00:59:39,072
Most of what the Internet
connects to
1181
00:59:39,155 --> 00:59:41,283
is not what we would call
critical infrastructure.
1182
00:59:41,366 --> 00:59:43,159
Let's say my web page
or something.
1183
00:59:43,243 --> 00:59:46,413
If a terrorist wants
to take over my web page,
they're welcome to it.
1184
00:59:46,496 --> 00:59:48,873
I mean, not really, but
I'm just saying that, you know,
1185
00:59:48,957 --> 00:59:51,126
it's not gonna
cause a danger.
1186
00:59:52,711 --> 00:59:55,422
The Internet's
decentralized nature
1187
00:59:55,505 --> 00:59:58,883
has been an incredible
buttress against cyber threats,
1188
00:59:59,009 --> 01:00:01,052
and it's one of the reasons
you haven't seen
1189
01:00:01,553 --> 01:00:04,139
all kinds of terrible
things happen.
1190
01:00:05,890 --> 01:00:08,810
[Peter Ludlow]
There are many, many true
threats to us in this world,
1191
01:00:08,893 --> 01:00:11,563
from fracking,
environmental damage,
1192
01:00:11,646 --> 01:00:13,481
thousands of people dying from
1193
01:00:13,565 --> 01:00:15,483
pollutants, thousands,
millions,
1194
01:00:15,692 --> 01:00:18,903
You have over
50,000 people a year
1195
01:00:18,987 --> 01:00:21,448
dying from work
related illness.
1196
01:00:21,573 --> 01:00:23,491
All right, if you add in
the number of people
1197
01:00:23,575 --> 01:00:25,368
that die in workplace
accidents,
1198
01:00:25,452 --> 01:00:29,080
that's what, over 54,000
people a year dying
1199
01:00:29,789 --> 01:00:32,292
because of workplace
accidents or illness.
1200
01:00:33,585 --> 01:00:37,672
Now, if you break that down
to, like, how many per day
1201
01:00:37,756 --> 01:00:39,132
or how many per hour,
1202
01:00:39,591 --> 01:00:42,052
basically what you're
getting is the equivalent
1203
01:00:42,135 --> 01:00:47,182
of a Boston Marathon bombing
every half hour of every day
1204
01:00:48,433 --> 01:00:50,101
of every week
of every year.
1205
01:00:52,228 --> 01:00:54,230
So here's the optic.
1206
01:00:54,314 --> 01:00:57,567
You've got this situation
in the Boston Marathon bombing
1207
01:00:57,650 --> 01:01:00,695
where a number of people
died in the explosion,
1208
01:01:01,112 --> 01:01:02,739
and it was a terrible thing.
1209
01:01:04,449 --> 01:01:08,328
And you know, we went in,
and we, like, seized houses,
1210
01:01:08,411 --> 01:01:10,872
and we caught
these people, et cetera.
1211
01:01:11,539 --> 01:01:14,876
But then meanwhile,
2 days later,
1212
01:01:14,959 --> 01:01:17,462
a fertilizer plant blows up in
Texas,
1213
01:01:18,713 --> 01:01:20,757
killing more people.
1214
01:01:21,549 --> 01:01:24,177
And in the beginning,
we're like, "Oh my God,
what if it's terrorism?"
1215
01:01:24,260 --> 01:01:26,679
And then we find out,
"Well, it's probably
an accident,"
1216
01:01:26,763 --> 01:01:28,306
and then no one cares.
1217
01:01:28,890 --> 01:01:32,936
Well, no one cares, but it
doesn't matter if it's, like,
1218
01:01:33,019 --> 01:01:35,897
terrorist did it or corporate
malfeasance did it.
1219
01:01:36,147 --> 01:01:38,066
People are still just as dead.
1220
01:01:38,733 --> 01:01:40,318
Or take West Virginia.
1221
01:01:40,402 --> 01:01:42,612
There's this huge leak
of toxic chemicals
1222
01:01:43,029 --> 01:01:46,658
and 300,000 people
are left without water.
1223
01:01:48,201 --> 01:01:50,370
Poisoned the water
of 300,000 people.
1224
01:01:50,453 --> 01:01:52,372
Now, what if terrorists
had done that?
1225
01:01:52,622 --> 01:01:54,082
We would be freaking out,
1226
01:01:54,582 --> 01:01:56,876
but because it was
a corporation that did it
1227
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:00,839
through its malfeasance
and ineptitude, no one cares.
1228
01:02:01,756 --> 01:02:03,675
So, what's going on?
1229
01:02:03,758 --> 01:02:06,386
The problem is that
we're fearing the wrong things.
1230
01:02:06,469 --> 01:02:08,805
We're not fearing the things
that we ought to.
1231
01:02:08,888 --> 01:02:10,432
Or, forget about fear.
1232
01:02:10,515 --> 01:02:12,434
We're just obsessed
with the wrong things.
1233
01:02:13,059 --> 01:02:16,479
[Lawrence Lessig]
We've seen an incredible
rise of crony capitalism
1234
01:02:16,563 --> 01:02:18,356
in The United States
government,
1235
01:02:18,481 --> 01:02:21,568
which is corrupting
the government
and corrupting capitalism.
1236
01:02:21,651 --> 01:02:23,653
It's again this sense
that business and government
1237
01:02:23,736 --> 01:02:28,241
needs to be in bed together
and benefit each other.
1238
01:02:28,324 --> 01:02:31,369
Business benefits government,
not in the old criminal way,
1239
01:02:31,494 --> 01:02:32,787
they don't bribe people,
1240
01:02:32,871 --> 01:02:34,831
but by providing
the necessary thing
1241
01:02:34,914 --> 01:02:37,792
that congressmen need
to survive, money.
1242
01:02:38,543 --> 01:02:41,963
And in that relationship,
we once again are having this
1243
01:02:42,380 --> 01:02:45,467
stagnated economic development
1244
01:02:45,592 --> 01:02:48,386
because economies that
are in bed with governments
1245
01:02:48,470 --> 01:02:50,722
are economies that are about
protecting themselves,
1246
01:02:50,805 --> 01:02:52,599
not about competition.
1247
01:02:52,724 --> 01:02:55,643
So, we need a similar
progressive movement.
1248
01:02:55,810 --> 01:02:57,604
In fact, I believe
there's such a thing
1249
01:02:57,687 --> 01:02:59,856
as successful social movements
1250
01:02:59,939 --> 01:03:01,816
to save something
that people care about.
1251
01:03:01,900 --> 01:03:03,485
I'll give you
a couple examples.
1252
01:03:03,568 --> 01:03:05,111
Downtown New York.
1253
01:03:05,195 --> 01:03:06,779
There was a plan in the '50's
1254
01:03:06,863 --> 01:03:09,616
to make all of Downtown
New York freeways.
1255
01:03:09,699 --> 01:03:12,494
They were like,
"West Village, SoHo,
1256
01:03:12,577 --> 01:03:15,079
"you know, old buildings,
who needs 'em?
1257
01:03:15,830 --> 01:03:18,500
What we need to do
is just get new freeways."
1258
01:03:18,583 --> 01:03:21,169
I mean, these plans are
crazy, Robert Moses's plans.
1259
01:03:21,753 --> 01:03:24,506
But they say if you had
a plan now to try to plow over
1260
01:03:24,631 --> 01:03:27,342
the West Village or SoHo,
it would not happen.
1261
01:03:27,592 --> 01:03:29,385
Similarly, I think
with the National Parks,
1262
01:03:29,469 --> 01:03:31,387
we've had a successful
movement.
1263
01:03:31,471 --> 01:03:33,181
There was a time
in this country
1264
01:03:33,264 --> 01:03:36,184
where people just didn't think
about this is worth saving.
1265
01:03:36,434 --> 01:03:39,896
When they thought
about nature, they thought,
"Well, how do we make money?
1266
01:03:39,979 --> 01:03:41,773
And if we don't make
money, who cares?"
1267
01:03:41,856 --> 01:03:43,441
This conception
that the environment
1268
01:03:43,525 --> 01:03:45,568
was something
you would save, just...
1269
01:03:46,110 --> 01:03:47,487
If you'd said that,
1270
01:03:47,654 --> 01:03:49,239
people wouldn't know
what you're talking about.
1271
01:03:49,322 --> 01:03:50,698
It didn't make any sense.
1272
01:03:50,782 --> 01:03:52,492
It really took
a change in consciousness
1273
01:03:52,575 --> 01:03:55,870
to have an awareness
of the importance
of the environment.
1274
01:03:55,954 --> 01:03:57,622
That's the same way
people felt when you
1275
01:03:57,705 --> 01:03:59,916
talked about net neutrality
for the first time.
1276
01:03:59,999 --> 01:04:02,877
It's just like,
"Well, what do you mean
the structure of the network?
1277
01:04:02,961 --> 01:04:06,047
I don't get it."
You know, it's just
wires and so forth."
1278
01:04:06,130 --> 01:04:09,676
And so I think today,
we're going through a same
kind of consciousness shift
1279
01:04:10,510 --> 01:04:15,139
with respect to how information
is controlled in society
1280
01:04:15,848 --> 01:04:17,892
that we underwent with
the environmental movement
1281
01:04:17,976 --> 01:04:19,477
in the 20th century.
1282
01:04:21,396 --> 01:04:22,564
Through the '60's
1283
01:04:22,647 --> 01:04:26,025
there were all these really
great shifts in consciousness.
1284
01:04:26,109 --> 01:04:28,695
We had a shift
in consciousness about race.
1285
01:04:28,778 --> 01:04:31,614
We had a shift in consciousness
about women's rights.
1286
01:04:32,115 --> 01:04:33,908
I mean, dramatic,
very dramatic.
1287
01:04:33,992 --> 01:04:36,494
We had a shift in consciousness
about the environment.
1288
01:04:37,745 --> 01:04:42,458
These things come in waves
of about every 50 years or so.
1289
01:04:42,792 --> 01:04:45,545
The last one we had
was in the '60s,
1290
01:04:45,712 --> 01:04:49,132
sort of peaking around
'67, '68,
1291
01:04:49,507 --> 01:04:51,134
where basically the whole world
1292
01:04:51,301 --> 01:04:54,679
kind of had a raising
of consciousness as it were.
1293
01:04:55,513 --> 01:04:58,641
And you get these,
in sort of like 1917.
1294
01:04:58,725 --> 01:05:01,603
If you go back, it about
a cycle of every 50 years.
1295
01:05:02,353 --> 01:05:05,607
So, 1848, 1776.
1296
01:05:06,190 --> 01:05:09,819
And I suspect that we're just
1297
01:05:09,902 --> 01:05:11,988
in the beginning stages
of this.
1298
01:05:12,905 --> 01:05:17,619
[applauding]
1299
01:05:18,369 --> 01:05:20,204
This is my friend,
Aaron Swartz.
1300
01:05:20,496 --> 01:05:22,582
Aaron came to me
with a question.
1301
01:05:22,665 --> 01:05:26,044
Then he said,
"So, how are you ever...
1302
01:05:27,170 --> 01:05:29,339
gonna solve the problems
you're talking about?"
1303
01:05:29,422 --> 01:05:30,965
"Copyright policy,
Internet policy.
1304
01:05:31,049 --> 01:05:33,051
"How are you gonna ever
address those problems
1305
01:05:34,093 --> 01:05:36,804
"So long as there's
this fundamental corruption
1306
01:05:37,555 --> 01:05:38,890
in the way
our government works?"
1307
01:05:39,182 --> 01:05:41,726
He was saying to me,
"You have got to get a clue,
1308
01:05:41,809 --> 01:05:43,311
"because there is a flaw
1309
01:05:43,394 --> 01:05:46,814
at the core
of the operating system
of this democracy."
1310
01:05:49,108 --> 01:05:52,445
I loved that boy
like I love my son,
1311
01:05:56,949 --> 01:05:58,368
but we failed him.
1312
01:06:00,787 --> 01:06:04,666
And I love my country,
and I'm not gonna fail that.
1313
01:06:05,333 --> 01:06:06,668
I'm not gonna fail that.
1314
01:06:06,751 --> 01:06:08,378
That sense of hope,
1315
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,714
we're gonna hold
and we're gonna fight for,
1316
01:06:11,798 --> 01:06:14,676
however impossible
this battle looks.
1317
01:06:15,968 --> 01:06:16,803
So...
1318
01:06:19,639 --> 01:06:21,516
may the ideals of one boy
1319
01:06:23,142 --> 01:06:27,605
unite one nation
behind one critical idea
1320
01:06:27,689 --> 01:06:29,732
that we are one people,
1321
01:06:29,899 --> 01:06:33,653
we are the people
who were promised a government,
1322
01:06:33,736 --> 01:06:36,239
a government that was promised
to be dependent
1323
01:06:36,322 --> 01:06:38,116
upon the people alone.
1324
01:06:38,199 --> 01:06:39,575
The people.
1325
01:06:39,701 --> 01:06:43,955
May you join this movement,
not because this is your field,
1326
01:06:45,498 --> 01:06:49,127
but because if you are,
you are a citizen.
1327
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:52,547
Aaron asked me that.
1328
01:06:54,841 --> 01:06:56,175
Now I've asked you.
1329
01:07:08,813 --> 01:07:10,815
[Charlie Chaplin]
We all want to help
one another.
1330
01:07:10,898 --> 01:07:12,275
Human beings are like that.
1331
01:07:12,358 --> 01:07:15,403
We want to live
by each other's happiness,
not by each other's misery.
1332
01:07:15,778 --> 01:07:17,572
In this world,
there is room for everyone
1333
01:07:17,655 --> 01:07:20,533
and the good earth is rich
and can provide for everyone.
1334
01:07:20,742 --> 01:07:22,994
The way of life
can be free and beautiful,
1335
01:07:23,786 --> 01:07:25,288
but we have lost the way.
1336
01:07:25,955 --> 01:07:27,957
Greed has poisoned men's souls,
1337
01:07:28,750 --> 01:07:30,835
has barricaded
the world with hate,
1338
01:07:30,918 --> 01:07:32,920
has goose-stepped us
into misery and bloodshed.
1339
01:07:33,796 --> 01:07:36,799
We have developed speed,
but we have shut ourselves in.
1340
01:07:36,883 --> 01:07:39,677
Machinery that gives
abundance has left us in want.
1341
01:07:39,761 --> 01:07:41,637
Our knowledge
has made us cynical.
1342
01:07:41,721 --> 01:07:43,598
Our cleverness,
hard and unkind.
1343
01:07:43,848 --> 01:07:46,100
We think too much
and feel too little.
1344
01:07:46,601 --> 01:07:48,936
More than machinery,
we need humanity.
1345
01:07:49,228 --> 01:07:52,064
More than cleverness, we
need kindness and gentleness.
1346
01:07:52,607 --> 01:07:53,900
Without these qualities,
1347
01:07:53,983 --> 01:07:56,611
life will be violent
and all will be lost.
1348
01:07:56,736 --> 01:07:58,112
The airplane and the radio
1349
01:07:58,196 --> 01:07:59,572
have brought
us closer together.
1350
01:07:59,655 --> 01:08:00,990
The very nature
of these inventions
1351
01:08:01,073 --> 01:08:02,617
cries out for
the goodness in men,
1352
01:08:02,700 --> 01:08:04,494
cries out
for universal brotherhood,
1353
01:08:04,577 --> 01:08:06,037
for the unity of us all.
1354
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,539
Even now my voice is reaching
millions throughout the world,
1355
01:08:09,123 --> 01:08:11,501
millions of despairing men,
women, and children,
1356
01:08:11,793 --> 01:08:14,170
victims of a system
that makes men torture
1357
01:08:14,337 --> 01:08:16,088
and imprison innocent people.
1358
01:08:17,006 --> 01:08:19,967
To those who can hear me,
I say, do not despair.
1359
01:08:20,218 --> 01:08:23,304
The misery that is now upon us
is but the passing of greed,
1360
01:08:23,429 --> 01:08:26,641
the bitterness of men who fear
the way of human progress.
1361
01:08:27,099 --> 01:08:30,102
The hate of men will pass,
and dictators die,
1362
01:08:30,186 --> 01:08:31,896
and the power
they took from the people
1363
01:08:31,979 --> 01:08:33,856
will return to the people.
1364
01:08:33,981 --> 01:08:37,193
And so long as men die,
liberty will never perish.
1365
01:08:37,401 --> 01:08:41,113
Soldiers, don't give yourselves
to brutes, men who despise you,
1366
01:08:41,197 --> 01:08:43,699
enslave you,
who regiment your lives,
1367
01:08:43,783 --> 01:08:45,868
tell you what to do,
what to think, or what to feel,
1368
01:08:45,952 --> 01:08:48,120
who drill you, diet you,
treat you like cattle,
1369
01:08:48,204 --> 01:08:49,956
use you as cannon fodder.
1370
01:08:50,039 --> 01:08:52,625
Don't give yourselves
to these unnatural men,
1371
01:08:52,708 --> 01:08:55,878
machine men with machine minds
and machine hearts.
1372
01:08:55,962 --> 01:08:58,673
You are not machines.
You are not cattle.
1373
01:08:58,756 --> 01:09:00,049
You are men!
1374
01:09:00,132 --> 01:09:01,759
You have the love of humanity
in your hearts.
1375
01:09:01,843 --> 01:09:03,177
You don't hate.
1376
01:09:03,261 --> 01:09:06,264
Only the unloved hate,
the unloved and the unnatural.
1377
01:09:06,347 --> 01:09:08,558
Soldiers, don't fight
for slavery,
1378
01:09:08,641 --> 01:09:09,976
fight for liberty.
1379
01:09:10,059 --> 01:09:11,978
In the 17th chapter
of St. Luke it is written,
1380
01:09:12,061 --> 01:09:13,437
"The Kingdom of God
is within man,"
1381
01:09:13,521 --> 01:09:15,189
not one man
nor a group of men,
1382
01:09:15,273 --> 01:09:17,024
but in all men, in you.
1383
01:09:17,108 --> 01:09:20,236
You, the people have the power,
the power to create machines,
1384
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:21,737
the power to create happiness.
1385
01:09:21,821 --> 01:09:23,614
You, the people, have the power
1386
01:09:23,698 --> 01:09:25,157
to make this life free
and beautiful.
1387
01:09:25,241 --> 01:09:28,202
Then, in the name of democracy,
let us use that power.
1388
01:09:28,411 --> 01:09:32,206
Let us fight for a new world,
a decent world
1389
01:09:32,290 --> 01:09:34,083
that will give men
a chance to work,
1390
01:09:34,166 --> 01:09:36,878
that will give youth
the future,
and old age a security.
1391
01:09:36,961 --> 01:09:39,380
By the promise of these things,
brutes have risen to power,
1392
01:09:39,463 --> 01:09:40,882
but they lie.
1393
01:09:40,965 --> 01:09:42,425
They do not
fulfill their promise.
1394
01:09:42,508 --> 01:09:43,718
They never will.
1395
01:09:43,801 --> 01:09:46,387
Now, let us fight
to fulfill that promise.
1396
01:09:46,804 --> 01:09:49,056
Let us fight
to free the world,
1397
01:09:49,140 --> 01:09:50,808
to do away with
national barriers,
1398
01:09:50,892 --> 01:09:54,395
to do away with greed,
with hate and intolerance.
1399
01:09:54,478 --> 01:09:56,439
Let us fight
for a world of reason,
1400
01:09:56,522 --> 01:09:58,941
A world where
science and progress
1401
01:09:59,025 --> 01:10:01,068
will lead to all men's
happiness.
1402
01:10:01,152 --> 01:10:05,489
Soldiers, in the name
of democracy, let us all unite!
1403
01:10:11,412 --> 01:10:14,165
[Edward Snowden]
America is a fundamentally
good country.
1404
01:10:14,248 --> 01:10:16,125
We have good people
with good values
1405
01:10:16,208 --> 01:10:18,044
who want to do the right thing.
1406
01:10:18,127 --> 01:10:20,880
But the structures
of power that exist
1407
01:10:20,963 --> 01:10:22,757
are working to their own ends.
1408
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:24,300
The greatest fear
that I have
1409
01:10:24,383 --> 01:10:27,011
regarding the outcome
1410
01:10:28,596 --> 01:10:30,973
for America
of these disclosures
1411
01:10:31,057 --> 01:10:32,391
is that nothing will change.
1412
01:10:32,475 --> 01:10:36,354
They won't be willing
to take the risks necessary
1413
01:10:36,437 --> 01:10:40,232
to stand up
and fight to change things.
1414
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:42,944
[Tim Wu]
I'm not a fatalist.
1415
01:10:43,027 --> 01:10:45,988
I think that the future's
actually in our hands.
1416
01:10:46,072 --> 01:10:47,782
You know, the people of
The United States can say,
1417
01:10:47,865 --> 01:10:51,035
"We like information to be
a little more disaggregated,
1418
01:10:51,118 --> 01:10:52,620
a little more random,
1419
01:10:53,287 --> 01:10:55,873
a little more possible
to get anything you want,"
1420
01:10:55,957 --> 01:10:57,750
as opposed to
what's being fed to you.
1421
01:10:57,833 --> 01:11:00,378
And if we like that system,
we can defend it.
1422
01:11:01,045 --> 01:11:02,964
[Lawrence Lessig]
The fight has to be to protect
1423
01:11:03,047 --> 01:11:04,924
the architecture
of the Internet,
1424
01:11:05,216 --> 01:11:09,387
to embed and secure
the values that we care about.
1425
01:11:10,846 --> 01:11:13,432
[Peter Ludlow]
Well, we have a lot of
strategies for doing that.
1426
01:11:13,516 --> 01:11:16,143
I write little articles
in the "New York Times."
1427
01:11:16,227 --> 01:11:18,229
You make documentaries.
1428
01:11:18,396 --> 01:11:20,189
Other people
make documentaries.
1429
01:11:20,272 --> 01:11:21,607
We talk to our friends.
1430
01:11:21,691 --> 01:11:23,985
We're gonna go to a bar
and talk about it later.
1431
01:11:24,068 --> 01:11:25,611
We're gonna call our parents,
1432
01:11:25,695 --> 01:11:28,322
we're gonna
tell them about it, right?
1433
01:11:28,614 --> 01:11:30,491
And we're gonna need leaders.
1434
01:11:30,574 --> 01:11:32,785
We're gonna need
another Aaron Swartz.
1435
01:11:33,077 --> 01:11:35,037
We're gonna need
lots of Aaron Swartz's
1436
01:11:35,121 --> 01:11:37,081
to get this to work, right?
1437
01:11:37,289 --> 01:11:39,291
But then here's
the final point,
1438
01:11:40,251 --> 01:11:43,462
if it's really true that
you're not doing anything
1439
01:11:43,629 --> 01:11:46,340
to scare the power structure,
1440
01:11:46,674 --> 01:11:48,843
if it's really true
that you're not doing anything
1441
01:11:48,926 --> 01:11:52,054
to make the
power structure nervous,
1442
01:11:52,138 --> 01:11:53,848
and so why should you care,
1443
01:11:54,056 --> 01:11:56,475
why the fuck
aren't you doing something?
1444
01:11:57,309 --> 01:11:59,895
Why are you living
like a slave,
1445
01:11:59,979 --> 01:12:02,815
letting these people
control the wealth,
1446
01:12:02,898 --> 01:12:06,277
consolidate wealth,
poison your water,
1447
01:12:06,527 --> 01:12:09,947
poison your air,
treat you like shit,
1448
01:12:10,322 --> 01:12:12,533
treat your parents like shit?
1449
01:12:12,616 --> 01:12:14,577
Why are you letting
that happen?
1450
01:12:16,162 --> 01:12:18,456
So if you tell me you have
nothing to worry about,
1451
01:12:18,539 --> 01:12:21,083
then I wanna say shame on you,
1452
01:12:21,167 --> 01:12:22,960
'cause you should
have something to worry about.
1453
01:12:23,044 --> 01:12:24,211
You should be out there doing
1454
01:12:24,295 --> 01:12:26,130
something to change
this system.
1455
01:12:26,380 --> 01:12:31,594
[Heroic instrumental
music playing]
1456
01:13:19,975 --> 01:13:25,773
[heroic instrumental continues]
112076
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.