All language subtitles for [English (auto-generated)] Joy Division_ The Poster Children Of Post-Punk _ Amplified [DownSub.com]

there's a way to make an entrance

my destiny

it was now a conspiracy of witches

download veli today

in the late 1970s a band emerged who

thanks to their thrillingly unique sound

and intensely charismatic lead singer

sounded quite unlike anything that had

gone before

joy division were a manchester based

four piece a quartet of young men whose

profound influence on modern music

resonates hugely to this day

it's about suicide and it's about

darkness and it's about

death it's about emotions it's about

losing control but trying to keep

control they're actually stunning

performances i mean when you when you

actually see you and curtis moving

the way downstairs just was mesmerizing

it was such a shock

um

such uh

an electrifying experience to see this

guy who

just wasn't like any

rock star you'd seen before he wasn't

posing he wasn't

doing what he thought a front man should

do

this program is a review of joy

division's brief yet startling career

the music they made and the creative

minds that made

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

in the summer of 1976 the first

rumblings of a new musical movement were

making themselves known

britain was about to be exposed to punk

most notably via the shock tactics of

controversial young upstarts the sex

pistols

[Music]

punk would have been um

quite astonishing if you compare it um

with what else was around at the time

queen or pink floyd

or the who playing huge stadium gigs

and to see a band like that who are kind

of so

original and kind of raw and energetic

and it must have completely blown

everybody's mind really up to that point

you know rock had become quite um

sort of slick and professional and

here was this punk aesthetic kind of

absolutely

encapsulated by by the pistols and by

their whole kind of iconoclastic

attitude it really spoke to

this particular group of disaffected

fans and kind of want to be anti-stars

[Music]

it was the sex pistols gigs at the

manchester leicester free trade hall

attended by all the formative members of

joy division that really began to ignite

creative sparks

the pistons are where it's going around

the country inspiring people so they

came to manchester i think it was the

most impact they had in any city a

manchester became the second city of

punk the

twin gigs at the leicester three shade

hole

famously had quite a profound um

influence on on the people who becomes

your division the very next day had the

uh the second gig um

pete hut went out and bought a bass

guitar uh and basically started to learn

from from that point onwards but having

said that it wasn't it wasn't a

particularly great gig either been books

around it and films about it and um it

was a fairly mundane gig to be honest um

people didn't pogo as they were

portrayed in 24-hour party people

[Music]

while the gig has retained a mythical

status certain elements have been

exaggerated over the years

manchester celebrity tony wilson was

present but his then wife lindsey reid

portrayed here by shirley henderson was

not

i was at the slaughter in the dogs gig

about two weeks earlier which was

similarly punkish you know there was a

guy well tony tony remembers he was

wearing a dress

and it was definitely wild

some of it just was horrible i mean

there was i remember at the electric

circus tony on stage being having beer

chucked it all over him and

people were gobbing at him and and i was

standing at the back thinking oh you

poor thing you poor thing you know when

he came off i was going to console him

but he was elated he thought it was

fantastic but i thought it was

absolutely gross and disgusting

the sax vessel show in manchester

clearly was hugely important for the

music scene there pretty much everyone

was there who then went on to

form the kind of key manchester punk and

post-punk bands

so you have to say that it was the kind

of crucible for um for the late 70s

early 80s scene in manchester

we just caught up in all the

you know

you know

let's get playing

after seeing the pistols but when we got

together really was

about the anarchy to us

and it took a hell of a long time for us

to get

everything sorted out

and you could see all other groups sort

of coming up all the time

the influence of this gig has been known

to raise an interesting issue

joy division believed by many to be the

epitome of post punk actually came

together during the height of the

original punk phenomenon now the thing

about punk is that it was liberating but

it then almost immediately became

something that you had to escape from

it's a very different kind of punk rock

up north i don't think people want to be

just like the london scene which is

which was a certain kind of style

certain kind of sound people don't wear

those kind of clothes or play that kind

of music up here once you're into 78

punk

in its kind of pure raw form is already

sort of on the way out and the bands are

becoming more musical if you like and

they're becoming more intellectual

perhaps more cerebral and just that kind

of dole cue

leather jacket

uh safety pin thing is

is over and i suppose first

first truly post-punk band uh suited in

the banshees who who were kind of

inspired by the sex pistols to become

musicians and they did a very sort of

similar thing um to the joy division

[Music]

if you're trying to do something

different and you're not trying to play

rock music you often end up with that

kind of slightly monotonous

uh repetitive

bass lines and backing tracks that um

george business started out doing

whether your division or warsaw actually

said we are a punk band is is irrelevant

really it's just taking the energy upon

and making something out of it

an embryonic joy division started out in

manchester under the name of warsaw and

in july 1977 they recorded their first

demo tape they were kind of very raw to

begin with i think they were one of

those bands that developed there was

there was no indication at all that

something remarkable was going to happen

anyone i don't think anyone could claim

that what's distinctive about joy

division isn't immediately apparent

with what you what you hear what you

heard on stage with warsaw very very

early on you can hear the roots of

what's going to turn into joy division

but imagine you saw at the time you

probably think they were just another

two-bit local band trying to play punk

rock

warsaw's raw and explicitly punk

stylings also carried through to the

band's next incarnation

now officially re-christened as joy

division the group consisted of singer

ian curtis bassist peter hook guitarist

bernard sumner nicknamed barney and

drummer stephen morris

it was in june 1978 that they would

release their first ep

a four track collection entitled an

ideal for living

interestingly the opening track shared

the same name as their previous band

title 5012

[Music]

ideal for living is

it it's good especially it's group but

not great musically they haven't quite

kind of found their sort of their sort

of space and their kind of rhythm i mean

they're still bashing out the rhythm in

a very conventional quickfire four-four

sort of way if that's all they'd

recorded it probably would have just

disappeared into the midst of history

like a like a hundred other kind of

post-punk eps after punk there's a lot

of questions people like what we're

going to do the music that's what people

are thinking let's go somewhere else and

people looking for different ways of

making music the whole thing about punk

would be to destroy rock and roll but

obviously that's a complete myth really

but maybe making rock and roll different

kind of ways you know not just the 12

bar at the time they wouldn't really

have sounded that special on the basis

of that it's only in hindsight that you

can see that um especially if you look

at the sort of lyrics where

curtis has kind of you know he did find

his lyrical voice in lots of ways quite

early on

and certain themes are already beginning

to develop the sound is just not

distinctive enough and

it's just too close to

you know

something like the clash the sort of

there's the standard abrasive

chunky sounding punk music

[Music]

um

[Music]

at this early stage joy division's

somewhat underwhelming output had been

overshadowed by another issue the

controversy surrounding their name

a direct reference to the 1955 novel

house of dolls joy division was a slang

term referring to groups of women forced

into prostitution by nazi concentration

camp officials curtis

in particular was

fascinated by the third reich

not as a sort of closet nazi but just in

terms of kind of

what it represented he's fascinated by

the nazis but he doesn't make him a nazi

just because he's fascinated how

ultimately depraved and revolting

um human beings can get i mean it is a

fascinating topic the whole natural

thing is very interesting but only only

because it's the ultra dark side of

humanity you could say it was quite kind

of a juvenile fascination in a way um

but the imagery was so powerful um that

these lyrics which are very very

underrated

um it kind of kind of became a metaphor

for for the sort of feelings he had he

was trying to express and it was only

later that he became sort of um

enough to sort of escape that joy

division do you know what is mr wilson

it's when the nazis uh

picked out racially pure women and uh

had sex with them yeah well joy division

that shall say

well it's a very nazi name so yeah but

it's quite cheery as well yeah

joy

yeah

i think

ian and

barney did have an interest in germany

because they grew up with air aid

shelters in the back garden and things

like that the second world war was

was still around in a sense and and and

ian loved history so there was that

interest i think i think people forget

um

in the the people who grew up in the 50s

and 60s that they were kind of force-fed

war films all these images of kind of uh

nazis in their uniforms and you know in

spitfires and hurricanes and and meshes

mitts every school boy had that sort of

fascination um uh

with the nazis and um and george vision

weren't any different hi hitler that's

better now let's see you walk

it won't work you know yes it'll work

let's see you walk

put some style into it put your hand on

your hip that's what the bloody boss

have styled slap your gloves against the

leg

it really was just a juvenile

fascination which they soon evolved from

although the band had no fascist

leanings whatsoever it could be said

that they were nevertheless playing a

dangerous game one which had the

possibility of them attracting a

right-wing following i think a lot of

right-wing people didn't attach

themselves to the bands but it wasn't

like the gigs were like nazi rallies or

anything but i've met people over the

years have been pretty like revolting

people into the right-wing thing who

have been fascinated by joy religion

fairly misunderstood what they were

saying about because the music is very

very dark they have that kind of

eastern european look of their clothes

there's always like this little rumble

of this nazi thing that goes on on and

on and on behind them all the time even

though it's completely not true in a way

they escaped that uh in in a sense that

madness a year or so later didn't you

know those factions attached themselves

to them and i don't think they ever did

to joy division in it to get any great

extent at all with a name like joy

division there was always the

possibility that you are going to

attract some sort of nazi far-right

following and those people were

certainly swirling around at the time

but there was nothing in the music that

would have attracted them i mean the

whole nature music was clearly much more

kind of somber and ruminative and it

just wasn't it was too good for nazis

you know joy division however were about

to enter the next phase of their career

in september 1978 they made their first

ever television appearance

seeing as how this is the program which

previously brought you first television

appearances from everything from the

beatles to the buzzcocks would you like

to keep our hand in and keep you

informed of the most interesting new

sounds in the west

this joy division is the most

interesting new sound we've come across

in the last six months uh they're a

manchester band with the exception of

the guitarist who comes from salvador

very important difference they're called

joy division

there was a lot of kind of weird stuff

on telly at that time more so than there

is now i mean you know there was the old

grey whistle test and um which had sort

of fairly

avant-garde stuff on it sometimes and

then you even had programs like revolver

um that the punk show

was on where you could tune in and see

the rich kids and

and the skids and all those kind of

bands that early uh grenade's appearance

was the work of tony wilson who in those

days was

a presenter who was on every single

night when you're having your teeth

everybody knew him and all the mothers

loved him and and he was kind of this

cuddly presenter and um

ian curtis famously as i've attacked him

um at rafters uh and asked him if he put

him on your friend of yours

is he going to hit me you're quite close

to me though yeah i want to be

[Music]

i think that the most one of the most

resting things that you see is is when

he does the kind of the epileptic

butterfly dance the trap butterfly dance

it was that dance i think that most of

the caught most people's eye most

british browns don't do very much do

they just kind of stand there and stay

at the floor of course the punk bands

have been great because it didn't you

know those there's like a really great

aggression great energy bounds but

here's something very very different

yet joy division's appearance here would

only mark the beginning of their

relationship with presenter tony wilson

in the months that followed they were to

become an integral part of his new

business idea a manchester-based record

label

it was also around that time that tony

wilson started to think about

trying to fight his way back into the

record industry and carry on meeting

these people that he got to know um so

the idea of the label sort of came to

you at the right time

funding the first recording via an

inheritance from his mother tony wilson

had embarked on the long and twisting

saga that the world would come to know

as factory records

the initial release a factory sample was

to feature two new joy division tracks

glass and digital

[Music]

is

[Music]

digital and glass they're very kind of

post punky words in a way and there's a

sort of very sort of terse nerve

equality to those those tracks that you

can really see in getting away from the

sun or sort of rough hume punkish sort

of beginnings at first they're trying to

just just be able to play and get a

stage or play something just play

anything and now now they think wait a

minute we actually got our own sound

here let's pursue this let's see what

the logical conclusion of this is and

the starter hit that kind of uh groove

there they went in the studio um with

martian hallett who they knew because he

produced the guscox spiral scratch other

than that they didn't really know much

about him and he didn't really know much

about them but hamlet changed the sound

profoundly they are the first instance

of of hannah as it were kind of

superimposing

his musical style his his vision of

sound on joy division with joy division

he changed this rolling rock drumming

sound to eclipse disco be which

completely changed added intensities to

the sound the band hated it at the time

they they wanted to go down the rock

route but hannah was absolutely

insistent on this

i mean virtually a pop song i mean

there's almost like a nursery rhyme

element to it it was probably the first

thing they did where people

stood up and thought

actually there's something very deeply

kind of intelligent and original going

on here

as well as exposing joy division to a

much larger audience the factory sample

also ensured that tony wilson was

carving a reputation for himself and his

label as one of the most important

figureheads of the manchester and

post-punk music scene

it pains me deeply to say it but i mean

tony wilson he was kind of a visionary

in a sort of you know bumbling

egotistical

uh twatish fashion

he was he was a visionary and a driving

force and he had a

and still does a kind of rapacious uh

intellect and

uh and he i mean factory records

i made manchester you could be the best

band in the world but if you're going

around wiggins somewhere nobody's heard

you it's pointless you know but with

tony wilson he could couch from a

certain kind of way he could say to

people listen to this band

it's and he could explain to people in

their kind of terms you can spread to

all the media people and the terms they

can understand you have to take the

overview you have to see the bigger

picture and how joy division fitted into

what factory meant you have to see

how important

how tony wilson kind of got

ian curtis and understood ian curtis and

and understood that he was something

very different and unique that i'm not

sure anyone else would have got tony

actually has it has had a vision then

that i think

i've only realized now i mean he knew

that ian for instance was you know some

like jim morrison character

touch me

don't play with

[Music]

i had no idea about that i mean the

factory example to me was just um a

frippery really you know a creative

fun thing to do but i didn't think we'd

even get the money back

i was surprised when we did

joy divisions are sent to stardom

continued when in early 1979 they

featured on the cover of the new musical

express in a photo shoot which further

helped to cultivate the public's image

of a moody and disaffected band

in truth however many have pointed out

the contrast between this image and the

reality the joy division was simply a

group of friends who enjoyed making

music

one of one of the remarkable things

about geodivision was how impossible it

was to square their image with the with

their actual characters

and indeed square the music with the

characters because they never ever seem

to blend oh they didn't seem morose and

depressing at all they were they were a

bag of laughs

you know laughing and joking all the

time and playing tricks and

you know that's how they were you go and

send them out of cotman rehearsal very

very very early on um and watched some

quite intense rehearsal in little peter

street in manchester and um

then they go to the pub and they'd be

they'd be talking about football and the

usual things like ganga it was like live

being with a road gang you know there

was nothing remotely pretentious about

them

i don't like i think it's

a heavy metal thing now they weren't

educated particularly well they weren't

well read they

they were just your average ganga lads

yeah somehow when they picked up the

guitar something else happened

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

ah

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

they were learning very very fast and

they're obviously brighter than the

educational system of giving them credit

for to be honest with you

this contrast also gives rise to another

theory the joy division was simply

unconsciously reflecting and channeling

the modern world around them

well there is a theory that all music is

channeled and i mean i think i

personally believe that a lot of it is

you know some of the words and things

can't come from some other place don't

they but it was it was a dark period

that you know facts just got in you know

we thought there's going to be a nuclear

war and the world was going to get

destroyed i mean it's a dark generation

really you know people have dark

thoughts and and even though maybe i

don't think joy of vision ever set out

to be spoken with that kind of feeling

but somehow unnervingly they kind of uh

twigged on that thing that people had

the sense of like you know economic

policies of thatcherism actually

physically ravaging your kind of

immediate environment it was palpable

where there is discord may we bring

harmony where there is error may we

bring truth where there is doubt may we

bring faith and where there is despair

may we bring hope like if you were to go

and talk about all of that to your

division at the time they'd just say

piss off you know

do with us and they'd be right in a

sense because they weren't really

concerned with monetarism and what was

happening in iran but that is one of the

reasons why joe division resonates it's

the times of the context they arose from

it seemed quite colorful and modern at

the time it's an odd thing now you think

of it in black and white as you think of

your division black and white so i think

it did colour them uh it certainly

caught a lot of those post punk bands

and joy division went along with people

like the pop group and pill and those

sort of groups who were sort of emerging

from a punk sound and found found kind

of a kind of a dark sound from which to

emerge i think that's first thing

their sound now far more thoroughly

developed it was in may of 1979 the joy

division released their first album

unknown pleasures

now widely regarded as an experimental

masterpiece the lp nevertheless opened

with a relatively straightforward track

entitled disorder

[Music]

it's a pop song it really is a pop song

and kind of very difficult to play if

you picked up a few times trying to do

what bernie's doing even though it's

very very simple it's very very

difficult to do well they were capable

of

writing

music that that would have worked in a

stadium you know that had that kind of

fist pumping adrenalizing quality and

disorder certainly has that from the

get-go

[Applause]

musically they've established what

what's specifically postponed the stamps

are sort of new space you know they're

operating in a sort of

a spacier dimension it's just just a

fantastically exciting and even

danceable

track that just um

announces that joy division are here and

stand back and

prepare prepare yourselves

[Music]

then you know i don't think joy of sit

there thinking let's make this record

it's going to mess with people's heads

you know they're not worth thinking

let's break the boundaries of music they

just

they want to make a great rock and roll

record yes they have this kind of really

off-the-wall production to it and they

have this kind of weird dark aura which

other bands didn't have at the time but

i don't think they were deliberately

trying to set out to make this record

that was just going to completely like

do people's heads and you know they want

people to like the record as well

despite this opener it's only really on

the next track day of the lords that the

ambience of unknown pleasures really

begins to take shape

[Applause]

[Music]

is

[Music]

[Music]

day of the lords is

by joy division standards quite

overwrought i think a little

heavy-handed shall we say i mean i think

it's sort of great on its own terms it's

a bit closer to the kind of theatrics of

of

the doors than to

a lot of um

a lot of ian curtis's stuff

like a lot of georgian taxes covered by

this kind of cold

film of anxiety sweat and it was what

people were feeling at the time i mean

lots of very young people i didn't think

they were going to live more than six

months not because we were feeling

suicidal because you thought that the

bomb was going to drop

[Music]

where we'll live

[Music]

the recording of this and the other

tracks would mark something of a turning

point for joy division

far from the chaotic noise of their

scatter shot live shows the band could

now clearly hear what the others were

doing ian curtis's prophetic doom laden

lyrics were now clear and

decipherable more violent his hand

cracks the chair

[Music]

moves on reaction then slumps and

despair

[Music]

[Applause]

trapped in a cage

[Music]

in unknown pleasures

he was given like a palette really i

mean it was his first time in his life

that

he could actually get his ideas across

um i think it's a little bit frustrated

that no one was really listening um you

know maybe that's part of it because i

don't think anybody was really i think

ian's lyrics came from

a very troubled

and private person i you know i think he

probably hid

that side of himself from his band

members in the general public you know

maybe not to his his wife or his his

family

i think that the band

they were probably aware that they were

producing something really kind of

dark and gothic and

and disturbing in some ways

[Music]

he would have scraps of paper with

lyrics written on and he would come up

with a line or something and the weird

thing was it almost bend the music

around the lyric now whether this was a

one of them i don't know but that's what

they did in front of me um and it was

driven by peter hook's

bead hooks bass which was so high it was

almost you know it wasn't even a base it

was bizarre and um and he would follow

ian's lyric line with it and it kind of

drive a song and that happened a couple

occasions most people in bands don't

really listen to what the singer's

singing about they're not really that

interested you know they get their own

parts down

and they're just i mean hockey's just

probably in the studio getting his bass

sound as good as it is and and barney's

just constantly guitar and they did then

when ian was doing singing they'd all go

down the pull probably that's that's

probably the way it is you know and they

know he's singing about heavy stuff but

they don't really totally understand i

mean i mean intellectually they couldn't

understand what he's singing about but i

think that they're not interested they

know it sounds really good and it's got

a real kind of value and it fits without

their music ian was was one of the lads

so he was capable of being as laddish as

hooky

but then he was off like writing these

extraordinary

lyrics it was not only the lyrics that

were becoming more defined the rest of

the instrumentation was clearly evolving

too

you've got peter hook who's playing this

kind of bass in this very sort of

low-slung way and he's having to carry

the sort of the burden of the melody a

lot of the time much as in real life he

felt like he was the one sort of

practical one you know the sort of the

ox the anchor who had to do a lot of the

kind of practical heavy work within the

band hooky couldn't play guitar she

played bass but he's a very forceful

person so he's not going to play bass in

the background and influenced by like jj

benelli stranglers he pushed the bass up

front and he's he played a very

belligerent macho style but at the same

time hockey's got a very sensitive side

to him barney was a really interesting

guitar player he had a very interesting

kind of style a lot of his um kind of

lead rhythm just chugging along and this

kind of weird kind of tone as well it

wasn't like big power calls like most of

punk bands was it was kind of kind of

middly kind of like almost dead sound

it's kind of sound it sounds like he's

played through the worst equipment but

somehow he sounded really good

especially on those pleasures where

where where his place in the mix is

really makes really interesting his

guitar contributions are like sort of

acid splashes strewn about you know

within the songs

um then with stephen morris he brings

rhythmically he brings a certain sort of

lightness um

you know he's he's he's drumming he

tends to sort of comprise these very

sort of cyclical patterns

um very similar to the sort of thing

that jackie lieberstein did in the

german group can

[Music]

these continual leaps forward however

cannot be ascribed purely to the band

joy division had recorded unknown

pleasures with producer martin hannit

who was determined to continue his

development of their sound whether the

group liked it or not

an approach particularly noticeable on

tracks such as insight

[Music]

yes your dream's always there

[Music]

one of my hannah's tricks is to separate

the music to separate the instruments

and also separate the musicians um

physically

which sounds really funny buddy but he

he

he had this thing about recording one at

a time and not having anyone else in

that control room i seem to remember the

band whenever in the control room it it

was always you know

i mean me and tony would sit in there

martin would be there with chris nagel

and the band would be playing pool

downstairs or something they'd ask him

stuff and it just he said off you

know because

you know he he was making his record

they were merely the musicians who were

doing that it's like he was a factory

owner and they were they were the kind

of drones

[Applause]

[Music]

[Music]

you wear it very well what you wear it

very well to play like a

musician

trick

i can only imagine that they expected to

hear something that was a bit closer to

the stooges and the velvet underground

or the mc5 or something they wanted more

of that kind of

guitar attack and really it's to ma to

martin hannitz credit that that he saw

that um

there was a way of producing this band

that make made them sound like some sort

of dystopian disco if you have a

production aesthetic it's going to make

a record

kind of more exciting i think or give it

extra dimensions that you wouldn't if

you just try to

record a band

just as they sound in a room

i mean i think the real templates are

that some of the crowd rock bands

some of the noi records for example and

i think some of eno's records to me

that's that is

pointing the big finger towards joy

division

[Music]

another song which hannah molded into

something new and one of joy division's

best known moments was she's lost

control

perhaps the closest that ian curtis ever

got to musically portraying the effects

of his often debilitating epileptic

conditions

[Music]

yes it's really unusual musically

unusual and again it's it's kind of uh

peter hook's playing the bass like it's

the kind of main melodic instrument

which is quite interesting

i think it's the the the most instantly

powerful track on the on on the album

it's not my favorite track on the album

by any any means but um

it

on first listen and second listen that

is the track that stood out

there's no doubt about that really

mainly because of that diving bass which

is um

so it's a remarkable thing to hear for

the first time it it creates this

extraordinary kind of equation between

the

um sort of spasmodic

effects of an epileptic fit and

the kinds of

dancing that ian curtis would do on

stage and particularly to that track

[Applause]

[Applause]

someone i spoke to called alan why is he

thinks that

ian was actually drumming himself up

into an epileptic hit with the dance

with the dancing and and of course the

strobe light certainly didn't help i

don't know about that i don't know i

mean i think it was just part of who ian

was and pot and who he was remains

actually

a bit of a mystery

[Music]

thinking about something

it can actually show it as well

[Music]

curtis is obviously from a very early

age quite

a disturbed individual to then

have that

upset with an illness like epilepsy

must have created in his own head a very

kind of strange situation people thought

it was ian curtis probably hinting at

his epilepsy but he always claimed he

was about because he used to work in an

epileptic unit in macclesfield and he

claims about a girl there with epilepsy

in fact this one when he finally got

epilepsy himself it's what created the

fear and the panic for him because he's

seen like really extreme bad cases of

epilepsy in max field and he thought

that was his fate it had a huge effect

on on ian personally and i think he

possibly felt that

he couldn't see how he could go on with

it

because the fits were increasing and

you know he was having them on stage

more and more or towards the end of the

set

so i i think possibly he wondered how he

could go on with it

following she's lost control on the

album is shadowplay a song which fuses

elements of gothic rock heavy metal and

punk demonstrating just how difficult to

categorize joy division could be

[Music]

to the center of the city where a road

shadow player was probably the most

influential track that joel division

recorded actually because it's the it's

the one song that you can hear right

across the border i think from from it's

fair to say from that sound um

as i said well but gang's like pop group

gang of four pill skitch ability all

those people um um half society shadow

played strange as a guiding influence i

think it was i mean it's uh

it's a very easy it's very easy and

accessible track and um it's atmospheric

without being too too deep really the

the line about acting out your own death

i mean it still sends a chill down my

spine because

even saying those words

i mean it's something that's something

really

powerful and dark

and disturbing and fascinating and

alluring about that track i mean it's an

absolutely fantastic piece of music

[Music]

on the floor

[Music]

while lyrically you know curtis doesn't

sort of stray very far from his kind of

particular territory musically it does

there isn't there is that almost that

kind of inherent underlying element of

mcchismo enjoy division that desire to

rock out there was a vivacity of outdoor

division i think that's one of the

things that comes out even in a song

like shadow play

the atmosphere of unknown pleasures was

reflected perfectly by the cover artwork

a peter savile piece depicting a

radiograph of a dying star

it's one of the most iconic sleaze of

all time is peter saviles and known

pleasures cover i mean it's his favorite

piece of artwork he's ever done for

himself and he's done some great stuff

but it's just an absolutely awesome

cover they were really getting away from

um rock and roll as sort of phony

romance i think they were one of the

first bands to kind of use minimalist

sort of artwork

in a very very stylish way

i remember sort of never seeing anything

like it before i didn't really

understand what was going on and i

certainly didn't understand sort of his

uh influences

but it was it was kind of all very new

and exciting

unknown pleasures received widespread

critical acclaim upon release

the band however were not feeling so

jubilant

the increasing severity of ian curtis's

epilepsy meant that they had to call a

temporary halt on public appearances

they would next be heard from in october

with the inclusion of a new track on

compilation ercom2

auto suggestion would see them further

embracing an electronic aesthetic

[Music]

is

[Music]

foreign

all of a sudden the band were talking

about dub techniques which is very very

low fi and they were just experimenting

in the studio and they were evolving on

a daily basis with uh unbelievable speed

in a few months they're moving further

away from a more traditional rock based

sound

and they're looking something a bit more

experimental a bit more rhythm based and

um

yeah maybe even touch the craft work

with the keyboards coming in and craft

always been a very big influence in

manchester i mean the most unlikely

people here are really into craft work

[Music]

[Music]

see dry

[Music]

that the whole electro pop thing hadn't

happened yet um so i

you know they're always sort of

musically

uh innovative

and um you know and not always

necessarily you know succeeding

innovation seemed like everything but to

an extent perhaps the detriment of the

song to some extent because suddenly

became like a a big scramble for sound

techniques which was which was part of

what post punk was about because these

people had picked up guitars during the

punk gear and they finally learned to

play them and they were moving another

stage the experimentation of auto

suggestion would be followed by a track

which seemed to revert to joy division's

punk based roots their next single

transmission

[Music]

[Music]

transmission was uh was a step backwards

but then again every single thing they

recorded was everything recorded was

russia because they were six months

ahead of what they're recording and they

were frustrated by this because the

stuff they were doing in the in in in

rehearsals was was a different league to

the stuff that they were recording they

had to catch up somehow it's important

to remember that they could just rock

out with with the best of them but it's

also like a dance record and it

obviously culminates in the whole kind

of refrain of you know dance dance dance

in a sense it it it is actually one of

the most energized songs i mean it

contains as near and all be in a very

heavily qualified way it contains as

news you get to a sort of positive

sentiment

[Music]

it was quite um

extraordinary i mean

when they played it on uh something else

which was the bbc2 kind of youth program

um

i i think that's probably

the largest audience they they ever had

in terms of a television audience

[Music]

joy division entered 1980 by heading out

on a european tour

as with before they would have to cancel

several dates due to curtis's

deteriorating health the next recorded

material would arrive in march in the

form of one of their best known songs a

kaleidoscopic sonic leap entitled

atmosphere

[Music]

atmosphere is among the most beautiful

things that uh joy division and hanet

created together and um

to me you know one of the

major influences on martin hannah as a

producer obviously is phil spector

as sort of filtered through

you know

kraut rock and eno the the very

rhythm of it is is harks back to the

great suspected girl group records

and then that kind of shimmering

cascading sort of waterfall thing

also i think kind of takes you back to

that era

[Music]

[Applause]

oh

thank you

[Applause]

[Music]

it has this wonderfully sort of

wonderfully awfully sort of elegant

feeling about it with the um synthesizer

sort of fanning out like a peacock's

tail if you've got like a very strident

sound where'd you go next and this they

found their escape routes here they've

found a sound

that was a lot

less in your face but had this same kind

of emotional power to it i think

atmosphere it has to be said it's one of

those songs that you kind of can't can't

forget the first time you heard it you

know a strange sort of sensation went

through you when you when you heard

those chimes um which to this day makes

them you know i think everyone would

agree it makes you feel kind of takes

you to a slightly different place

[Music]

if atmosphere is held as one of joy

division's finest moments their next

single would be the one which has since

launched itself into the mainstream

consciousness

an instantly recognizable pop melody by

the name of love will tear us apart

to have written those kind of lyrics

and

you know it's so sort of tender and it's

so kind of like sorrowful and it's so

sort of heartfelt

yet written in a very

in a very kind of poetic

way in hindsight many have taken this to

be curtis's most personal song drawing

parallels between the lyrics and the

turmoil he was feeling at the time due

to an extra-marital affair

ian curtis was going through emotional

stress at the time um he met a belgian

girl

he was being he was torn between

between deborah his wife and anik the

belgian girl he was torn between life at

home with deborah and his daughter and

life as a rock star

all these kind of things you can build

into that song i think people can very

easily

uh side with the wife

and another and i don't blame them you

know she had she had a young baby and

it must have been terrifically hard but

but i think ganig has been unfairly

treated as well i don't think enough has

been said about how difficult it was for

him to handle that he didn't handle it

very well at all and he couldn't speak

about it very

clearly but i think it was a

big reason

why he killed himself i think he felt

extraordinarily

guilty and confused about what he really

wanted and

so

that song is all about that for me

[Music]

people talked about um

sinatra

in a level terrorist apart

his voice and it had that quality i mean

it was very enchanting and

and spellbinding

and uh

it had the effect that you felt you were

being imparted with wisdom

even if you run don't

worry about me

[Music]

i'll get along

forget about me

be

happy

my love

[Music]

[Applause]

to be honest with you if i never heard

that song again it'd be it's too soon

because it's so played at the time and

subsequently it's been so played to

death love all terrorists as part is one

of those songs in that like stairway to

heaven or

smells like teen spirit which has just

become

detached from its original context and

it and it's it's become a sort of

untouchable it is a really pretty pop

song it's a really great pop song and

it's their only top 20 hit and for most

people it's a song they know by joy

division without knowing the whole story

of the band or the situation or where

ian cursed his head was at the time of

written

with their partially abandoned tour over

with joy division stepped back into the

studio with martin hannett to begin work

on their second album closer released in

august 1980 after curtis's death would

be the result

the contrast to unknown pleasures was

immediate

while the previous album had opened with

the relatively simple disorder closer

began with a dense sprawling epic

entitled the atrocity exhibition

[Music]

[Music]

the trusty exhibition is a very strange

open there's no doubt about that with

all kinds of things going on in there

and almost kind of rocking beats and

things going on she just didn't expect

at the time it shows you how

how they could afford to experiment at

time i think that they already knew they

were a great band and and they were

destined to do great things this is

really good this is a sign of a band

that's really pushing pushing hearts

[Applause]

[Music]

[Music]

the track is also a good indicator of

where curtis's literary influences lay

taking its title from a novel by

transgressive fiction writer j.g ballard

ballard like william burras was was

clearly a major influence on

on curtis um

as a writer of sort of

dystopian

futurism really far away

[Music]

probably the one track that would that

contains clues of where george is you

might have gone after closer i think you

can hear that in the trusty exhibition

which is a long long way from unknown

pleasures as far as you could possibly

get i think

the unconventional rhythm of atrocity

exhibition is followed on the album by

the more accessible yet heavily

synthesized isolation

[Music]

every day

[Music]

isolation on one level is quite it's

quite danceable it's quite such a synthy

um

quite poppy almost and yet you know

here's ian curtis singing about

um you know profound

loneliness it's it's almost

tongue-in-cheek that that song you feel

isolation

despite the synthesized sound isolation

remains a good example of how little joy

division's essentially timeless work has

stated

they have dated well because people

aren't really making those kind of

records anymore i think isolation is a

is a great example of that but also i

think it's because when people

made electronic music and quite often at

that time

um

it sort of it it wasn't all it was a

little gesture to do and it quite often

denoted a sort of anxiety about the

future nowadays when people use

synthesizing records you know we're in

the future now and this is what we do

and it's much more routine isn't it

doesn't signify as much so i think for

that reason tracks like isolation really

do stand up you can instantly hear that

80s stuff anywhere and it sounds great

in a nostalgic way geologists don't

sound nostalgic it still sounds fresh i

mean isolation sounds as fresh as it did

then i think any record that's got like

a really genuinely powerful emotional

kick to it could never go out of date

because those feelings ian curtis was

was uh singing about our feelings that

people have now will have 100 years time

as the album progresses the development

of the band and their relationship with

hanet is reflected in a good deal of the

innovative sounds they were creating

[Music]

it doesn't sound like a punk album

sounds like a brand new album for the

80s

i think a lot of bands in the 80s just

took their whole sound from that record

it just sounded hauntingly beautiful

i remember the first time we heard it

as a piece

and i couldn't believe but unfortunately

at time with the um with with the

suicide attempt at the end of may when

in fact driving to the hospital to visit

him

we played because the cassette of for

the first time in the car you know in

its entirety

and

i just thought it sounded amazing

[Music]

close is a very dense album

much far more dense than

unknown pleasures and

certainly more accomplished in in terms

of music musicality and

hannah's recording techniques is the

complete joy division album

in terms of like the execution

musically literally in terms of the

production there's an emotive heart to

closer that um it's probably

unparalleled i know i can't think of

anything

anywhere near that

the culmination of this development can

be heard clearly on the track 24 hours a

song which many see is joy division's

defining artistic moments

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

march every moon

when you're looking at joy division in

their more sort of

anthemic surging powerful mode then 24

hours is you know is is right up there

in the kind of top five there's a sense

musically and lyrically of curtis sort

of crawling to the precipice and then

finally you know there's nothing there

at all it's so intense i just think it's

um absolutely thrilling

um so yes you have to say it's one of

their real peaks

[Music]

[Music]

it's not hugely melodic but it's still

entrancing

um and i think that kind of summed up

what they were doing with that album i

mean

there aren't pop songs on that album but

what there is on there is is very very

kind of um

uh compelling

as a posthumous release for curtis

closer has since been shrouded in an air

of finality something which is further

reinforced by peter savile's album cover

the band turned up at his studio in in

london

and basically said to him what you know

any ideas for the new sleeve for closer

savile had didn't have no ideas

whatsoever he'd be but he had been

looking at a magazine that day

um which featured some some beautiful

photographs of um a graveyard in italy

these tombstone images that he that he

put in front of the band and showed them

the band and they they edged towards it

and all of them nodded their heads and

went perfect for closer perfect

including again curtis

nobody really knows what was going

through and curtis's mind at that point

um because that album came out after his

death of course after his suicide um and

it was only like a couple of days after

when sabil realized that there was a

tombstone going to appear on the cover

of closer you look at the cover of the

album and it just says closer and you

see the kind of mausoleum and genoa and

the photograph then to me it really is

about

it just as it's you talking about

something you think about moving closer

to death i think sam was very very good

at current sleeves at catching music

even though he'd never actually heard

the records you know he obviously seen

your division early on then he knew what

they're about but he never actually

heard the albums he just made the

artwork

before closer was officially released

the band had been given two weeks in

early may to prepare for an upcoming

american tour

while this idea excited the other band

members ian curtis now becoming

gradually more unbalanced found the

notion profoundly upsetting

i think he was fed up with the idea of

being a rock star and i think part of

him

had decided that this would be his last

record with joy division i'm telling you

now straight up we're going to talk

america nice one you serious

i just told you straight up i gotta talk

america

well actually you're in knocking shots

and i'm in five stars

really fine i think we did better i

can't see joy division

making it in america really no

i mean there's something so

quintessentially english and european

about joy division you know

but

there's nothing that's american about

them despite the influences of lou reed

and iggy pop and so forth on curtis

you know it's more lou reed in berlin

and iggy pop and berlin and david bowie

in berlin on may 18 1980 curtis was

alone in his house

he reportedly watched werner herzog

stroidsec and then listened to iggy pops

the idiot

he then went into the kitchen and hanged

himself

ian's death shocked me completely and i

didn't think that

it was going to end with that i thought

it was just beginning

rock and roll is all about being young

and leaving the beautiful corpse etc

which is which is completely bollocks

actually you know it's there's nothing

wrong with getting older and gets some

wisdom you know and

and in curtsy's great hero iggy pop is

probably doing some of the best gigs

he's ever done his whole career and the

guy's in his 60 i mean to me that's the

ultimate act of rock and roll but

rebellion i don't think he was

fascinated with the idea of dying young

i think he believed that he would and he

meant he mentioned it um not just to

debbie but also to his his family his

his mother

and sister knew about it as well

you know he would just say thing not in

a doomy way but he'd say you know i

won't be around this guy was on the edge

of death and he knew it when he was

making those records and that's

you cannot deny that adds a certain sort

of edge to everything you know

everything jewelry vision did there is

something pernicious in it i think

there's a huge investment in the western

world in

self-destructive young men we need to

have these tragedies acted out for us

you know

because

we want to imagine what it must be like

without average without actually having

to do it ourselves

despite the devastation caused by

curtis's death the remaining band

members refused to give up their musical

inclinations and in a remarkable show of

defiance it would not be long before

they were touring and recording again

joy division along with new member

jillian gilbert had now become new order

one of the most influential electronic

bands of the last 20

playing years singing live with blue

monday

[Applause]

[Music]

they were very young you know they were

kids really and one of their

best friends

killed himself i mean that's pretty bad

um

how were they going to react i don't

know i mean

getting on with it was was probably the

best thing

to do

and probably anything they could do i

was ready to cave in and completely give

up i mean i just thought i forget it now

you know

this is the absolute worst you don't

carry on with anything when something

like this has happened

but um but they did and they they

actually uh performed a gig quite soon

afterwards but i think it was about five

weeks afterwards

how does it feel

when you treat me

like you do

there's a sort of melancholy

there even in the shiniest sort of

electro pop stuff they did

there's this sort of essential mancunian

melancholy that that i that just gets me

you can still hear a lot of echoes of

joy division in yours i mean you put

blue monday on yeah it feels like a

dance floor in the middle there's that

bass line it's still there that little

echo on it i thought i was mistaken

and i thought i'd heard you speak

tell me how

do i feel

tell me now when you saw the early new

order gigs they weren't massively

different from the latest joy division

gigs apart from the fact that there's

one very charismatic person not on the

stage but there's a music music wise

that is it's a continuation i mean

they're writing the music aren't they so

the continuation is there already even

with the phenomenal success of new order

ian curtis's spectacular cultural legacy

has never been forgotten inspiring

legions of new bands artists writers and

even in some part at least high-profile

movie productions

hi i'm tony wilson and this is the

trailer for 24-hour party people

it's the incredible but true story of

the man behind the scene that defined a

decade

this is not about sex drugs and rock and

roll

although they aren't in 2006 if you're

looking for the the influence and legacy

of joe division then it's kind of

everywhere um

whole sway the bands in britain

from the killers the editors snow patrol

you can go on forever

[Music]

show you can sing about very dark very

intellectual kind of subjects uh in a

very kind of poetic way but make it into

great rock and roll as well at the same

time so you can it can work as a great

rock and roll song but it can work as a

great piece of poetry as well i think

maybe maybe that's sarah great's lasting

legacy i think there's something very

very special about ian

as a person

you know i think i think he really

really was a special guy

[Music]

you