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[jazz music playing]
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♪♪
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[man] Max's Kansas City,
where is that?
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Is that in Kansas?
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[rock music playing]
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♪ All right, yeah
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♪ All right
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♪ Take a tip from me and get
Ready for the big parade ♪
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♪ It's the place to be
Every night's a happy holiday ♪
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♪ The kids are jumping around
Everybody's doing loop de loop ♪
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♪ Just a making the rounds
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♪ Like a speed freak
In a telephone booth ♪
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♪ The downstairs is packed
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♪ And the groupies
Are all dressed up ♪
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♪ Upstairs the New York Dolls
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♪ Are kickin' it out
Looking tough ♪
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♪ You've got a
Personality crisis baby ♪
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♪ Down at Max's
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♪ All the boys are
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♪ All the girls are...
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[music fades]
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[buzzing]
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[rock music playing]
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People always talk about
the significance of CBGB's
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and how important
a club that was.
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Obviously, it was,
but I always liked Max's.
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[rock music playing]
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If you date punk rock
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to the New York Dolls
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and The Velvet Underground
and Suicide,
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Max's was there
well before CBGB's.
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It was a place that had
a lot of history,
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not just punk rock history but
classic rock and roll history.
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The cool thing about it,
it was the cool factor.
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It wasn't the idea of going in
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and playing
Madison Square Garden
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because we weren't
big enough to do that yet,
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and there was a lot of other
little places to play,
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but Max's was the place.
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It was the cool place.
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Max's was kind of like...
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as far as debauchery
and just, like, madness,
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it was kind of like
as outrageous as Studio 54.
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But, like, funky
and gross, and poor.
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It was always
sex and drugs at Max's.
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So even when it was
an artist hangout,
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it was all about sex and drugs.
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It was avant-garde,
it was very eclectic.
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There were artists,
there were writers,
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and there was music.
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Things could happen there.
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You go some places,
and things just don't happen.
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It was truly the greatest club,
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and I have been
through clubs everywhere.
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Max's was it.
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That was it.
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That was joy.
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You know,
what the group is wearing
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is as important as their music.
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So yeah, we're super interested
when fashion and music
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are connected
with music and fashion.
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That's what was going on.
And art.
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[woman] Culture and fashion
do not come out of nowhere.
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[tongue clicks]
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[rock music playing]
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New York is an all-night town.
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There are very few of those.
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Actually, in the United States,
most places
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close down around one or two
in the morning at the latest.
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But New York
can be open all night.
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["Sunglass City"
by The Deadbeat Poet plays]
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Mickey Ruskin was a serious man,
I would say.
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I remember him
being kind of tall,
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a little bit aloof,
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right there at the front door
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watching everyone
who was coming into Max's.
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He was very, very friendly.
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He liked me a lot.
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He came to see one of my plays,
and he loved it.
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So I could do no wrong.
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I just used to waltz in.
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Prior to the existence of Max's,
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New York was populated
with discotheques,
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with everybody dancing to
Chubby Checker records
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and the whole go-go scene.
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At that time,
there was no local band scene.
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Because you live in New York.
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Everybody comes
through New York,
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and none of the local clubs
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really had anything more than
cover bands playing for dancers.
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Once word got out
of what Max's was...
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And part of that was fostered
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by the participation of
Andy Warhol and his superstars,
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who were right
down the block, literally.
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That's when the original
members of the factory
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were going there,
- Edie Sedgwick, Taylor Mead -
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and all of those people.
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[Jimi LaLumia] So the moment
Warhol started showing up
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with his gallery of
theater and film stars
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and thereby, the in-crowd models
started showing up as well,
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at that point,
it became the talk of the town.
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Max's became the hip in place.
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[Elliott Murphy] Mickey Ruskin
was creating that atmosphere.
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He was picky,
but he had good taste.
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So the people who
he would let into the back room,
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and that we considered
regulars, I guess,
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were first the artists.
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Mickey was great because
Mickey went to every table.
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Mickey was just
one of those guys
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that everybody
accepted as being.
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It didn't matter
if they were artists.
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He was, I think,
the art aficionado.
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We never paid for anything.
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We were just there to entertain,
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but the front room was like
people like Frosty Myers,
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Win Chamberlain,
John Chamberlain.
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I mean, Max's Kansas City
certainly was not a venue.
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It was a restaurant
in the front,
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and in the back,
it was the back room.
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Max's was a place where
people who were rebellious
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on a bunch of
different levels gathered.
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[rock music playing]
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[music fades]
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[music playing on TV]
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[male narrator]
Max's Kansas City,
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a restaurant near the factory,
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is the gathering place
for New York's underground.
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Almost every evening,
Warhol's clan can be found here.
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Kansas City functions as both
an unofficial casting agency
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and a public playground.
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Everything in this world
is at the same time
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both common and pretentious.
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Individuals who, once again,
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could very well be only copies
of their real selves.
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[Penny Arcade] Before 1968
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was when Andy Warhol
was actually at Max's.
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After he was shot,
he very rarely came to Max's.
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And he was shot in 1968.
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[Elliott Murphy]
And it was smart, you know.
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There were smart people there,
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they wanted to talk,
conversation...
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Maybe you can compare it.
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The closest thing we had to
the round table of the Algonquin
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in the 20s was the back room
of Max's Kansas City.
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[Alice Cooper] It was
a great place to hang out.
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There was nobody there
trying to get your autograph
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because everybody
was bigger than you.
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[scoffs]
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[Ruby Lynn Reyner] When Max's
became really popular,
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and I mean, all these
movie stars started coming...
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Warren Beatty,
Jane Fonda came.
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And you know,
they came to the back room,
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they wanted to hang out with us.
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They told me, "Oh, you got
to meet Jane and Roger."
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She was with Roger Vadim,
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and they said Roger Vadim
had a long, skinny penis.
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And they wanted
to take as many little...
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you know, punk-type
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of little superstars in waiting
home with them.
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I practically lived there.
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I would go during the day
for the free food.
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We would tell
Mickey all the time.
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I'd say, "Mickey,
it's my birthday,"
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just so he would give us
a bottle of champagne.
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[Penny Arcade] I started going
there in the middle of 1968
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because Jackie Curtis took me,
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and Jackie Curtis
took me in the afternoon
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because there was free food.
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If it's one thing
drag queens want,
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it's free food.
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With big giant salad balls.
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We found a couple of worms
in the salad.
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[country rock music playing]
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[Alice Cooper] It was always
going to be sort of the Warhol,
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the Larry Rivers,
the New York artists.
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And then rock and roll
just came in as...
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following that in
the second wave.
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And then it was...
We just kind of took it over.
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Well, Max's did not have
live music until 1969,
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near the end of
the winter '69-'70.
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Danny Fields brought
the first bands in.
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There was no intention
to have it be a venue
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with regular performances.
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He brought in Stooges,
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Alice Cooper,
Velvet Underground.
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[Alice Cooper] Well,
I think the Warhol people
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brought in the rock.
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You know, Velvet Underground.
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And I think we were one
of the very first bands
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to play there in 1970.
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The police actually
came in and said,
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"You've got to turn it down."
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We were very loud.
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I mean, most bands went in there
and they were half acoustic,
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and half, you know...
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We were in there like The Who...
[laughs]
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...in a room
the size of a restaurant.
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[Jimi LaLumia] The Velvet
Underground are considered
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the foundational factor
for the New York rock scene,
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alongside the New York Dolls,
who followed shortly thereafter,
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also who were
headquartered at Max's
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for a good part of the time
doing shows there.
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00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,040
Velvet was something else.
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00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,160
It was a different sound.
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00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,120
So they were like
"Pushing Ahead",
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00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,440
Walk on the Wild Side.
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00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,120
That was ahead of its time.
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00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:09,720
I love the Velvet Underground.
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00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,720
I love the Warhol scene.
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00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,040
And we knew the Warhol scene
was hanging out at Max's.
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00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,840
And one of my favorite albums
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is the live album that
the Velvet Underground did
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00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,000
at Max's, live at Max's,
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00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,120
which was recorded on
some tiny little cassette
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00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,880
or machine, or little tape
reel to reel, or something.
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00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,080
But also, we loved Iggy Pop.
I loved Iggy Pop, the Stooges.
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00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,360
The Stooges played at Max's.
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00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,320
Each time it seems
to get crazier and crazier.
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00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,880
Where does it stop?
222
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,600
I don't know, probably
some kind of extreme violence.
223
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,680
There was an act at Max's
Kansas City a few weeks ago
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00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,960
- Iggy Pop is his name -
who cut himself on stage
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00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,000
and ended up with 16 stitches.
226
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,840
["Going Back to Max's Kansas
City" by Joe Sztabnik plays]
227
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,840
think Danny Fields and I
were the ones
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00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,160
that took him to the hospital.
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00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,800
[Jayne County]
Iggy had been playing at Max's.
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00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,240
And he'd been rolling
around on the glass,
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00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,560
rolling around on the glass
that was on the stage
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00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,400
and getting up and bleeding,
233
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,400
just bleeding all over
from the broken glass.
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00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,280
Iggy's on stage, and
he's rolling around on stage,
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cutting himself all over,
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and people would go,
"Oh really?
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00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:18,480
Oh really?
What else is he doing?"
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00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,760
That was the attitude at Max's.
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00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,240
"Oh, what else is he doing?"
240
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,240
[Alice Cooper] Iggy was not
a New York guy at all,
241
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,400
he was a Detroit guy.
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00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,120
And I think that's what...
243
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,040
He is animal.
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00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:34,600
He was certainly
the godfather of punk.
245
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,200
In Detroit, he'd come out
with a pair of Levi's on
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00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,480
and no shirt.
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00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,920
And I mean, he was built great.
248
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,080
I mean, the guy didn't have
an ounce of fat on him,
249
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,000
and he was a contortionist,
250
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,000
and he had this kind
of street thing.
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00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,440
Guys loved him, girls loved him.
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He was-- he had this thing.
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He was just sexual up there,
254
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,600
and from what I understand,
he was pretty well-endowed.
255
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,960
I don't have to say
what I understand.
256
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,560
If you lived in Detroit,
you saw his penis
257
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,240
as much as you saw his chest
258
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,920
because he would always
just take it out, you know.
259
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,440
[laughs]
260
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,600
[Peter Crowley]
And it wasn't until '71 or '72
261
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,440
that it became a regular venue.
262
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,840
That was when the Gaslight Cafe
in Greenwich Village
263
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,680
lost their lease,
264
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,800
and Sam Hood,
who booked the Gaslight,
265
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,640
asked Mickey, could he use
the upstairs room for bands?
266
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:33,040
And Mickey said, "OK,"
267
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,600
and that's when they began
having regular bookings.
268
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,400
[Penny Arcade] A lot of people
who worked in the music industry
269
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,640
went to Max's.
270
00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:44,440
It was an incredible
mix of people
271
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,000
because there was
a rebelliousness
272
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,120
that wasn't limited to
somebody's behavior.
273
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,360
People were
intellectually rebellious.
274
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,120
They were
gender-rebellious,
275
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,520
meaning they chose
their own gender.
276
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:02,000
[music fades]
277
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,320
[rock music playing]
278
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,800
Yeah, it was the home of--
279
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,600
it was one of the homes
of punk, really.
280
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,280
That's what it was for us.
281
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,280
Yes, the fact that
we could read about it,
282
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,720
hanging out with Bowie there,
with Lou Reed and Warhol,
283
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,000
and the whole scene going on...
284
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,240
And Brigitte, so-and-so,
and all the different names...
285
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:23,760
and I don't know,
all the people.
286
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,320
[Ruby Lynn Reyner]
But I remember
287
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,080
Brigitte used to pull down
her pants in the back room...
288
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,440
Or I don't think she even
pulled down her pants.
289
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,720
I think she shot Amphetamine
right through her jeans,
290
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,560
right into her butt.
291
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,640
Yeah, big shot of speed.
292
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,440
And of course, it was
a crazy place too, you know.
293
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,280
There were a lot
of drugs going on.
294
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,400
Andy Warhol, superstar,
pristine condition,
295
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,480
we used to get up on the table
and flash our tits.
296
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,040
And Alice Cooper was there.
297
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,760
Alice Cooper, I think,
must have lived there
298
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,440
because every time
I went there, I saw him.
299
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,640
[Alice Cooper] We were
kind of like the first band
300
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,000
that really put
really good hard rock
301
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,560
with a really good band
302
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,760
together with, you know,
the genderbending thing,
303
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,040
and the name, and the glamor...
304
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,040
Glamor, horror, and violence
all packed into one,
305
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,600
but the songs were good.
306
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,960
I mean, I remember looking out,
and there were all these guys.
307
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,960
I guess it was
the New York Dolls
308
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,920
that were just coming up.
309
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,920
And they watched our show,
and they understood, "Oh, OK."
310
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:31,480
And at that time, Bowie was
coming to see us in England,
311
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,600
and he came and brought
The Spiders from Mars
312
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,600
and said, "This is
what we should be doing."
313
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,800
[Louie X. Erlanger]
I saw Mick Jagger in there,
314
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,600
David Bowie, and Lou Reed.
315
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,000
A lot of different people
would go in and out of there.
316
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,120
["Magnet" by
Stony Sugarskull plays]
317
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,400
And all these people
were out every night,
318
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,800
between Max's,
319
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,600
and not far away was
Harold Black's 210 club,
320
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,720
where you could meet everybody
if you were cool enough.
321
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,480
And it was David Peel
322
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,440
and "The Pope Smokes Dope",
"Marijuana",
323
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,400
and this was radical things
for the time.
324
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,520
Yeah, you know, fearless.
325
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,120
[Lenny Kaye] All of Downtown
Manhattan was very compressed.
326
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,520
There was a sense that
the avant theatre community
327
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,160
was bleeding into
the avant music community,
328
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,800
that was bleeding into
the avant film community.
329
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,800
All of these people
gathered in the back room
330
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,640
of Max's Kansas City.
331
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,320
So Max's became
a well-known place,
332
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,840
plus it was the Warhol crowd,
so it was uber hip, ultra hip.
333
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,640
Everybody knew where it was at.
334
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,160
That wasn't like today.
335
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,359
There wasn't loud music coming
through the back room, you know.
336
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,280
And Debbie Harry
was the waitress.
337
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:10,319
The back room was her foundation
for getting started
338
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,240
by making contact
with that crowd,
339
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,240
becoming part of that crowd.
340
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,240
She was hard to miss
because she was this...
341
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,319
You know, she was this
gorgeous blonde girl,
342
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,640
and she was also
a Playboy bunny before that.
343
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,200
Max's was pre Studio 54,
344
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,480
and who they wanted to let in
and not let in.
345
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,600
I mean, there wasn't
a velvet rope outside,
346
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,240
but if you went,
347
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,960
you had to get Mickey's blessing
to kind of sit in the back room.
348
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,320
It was really crazy.
349
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:44,240
You'd walk in there,
and this table would be Bowie,
350
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,360
you know, Frank Zappa,
and da-da-da,
351
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,840
and the next table
was George Harrison
352
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,640
and da-da-da, and da-da-da.
353
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,000
I mean, every table was like...
354
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,920
You wanted to sit
at every table.
355
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,800
There was a lot
of table hopping.
356
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,720
You would go and sit
in one booth of people,
357
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,160
and you'd see other people
you knew at other booths,
358
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,000
and they would know the gossip,
"So what's happening?"
359
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:06,840
"We were sitting over there
with so and so."
360
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,920
"What's happening? Is it true
he has a little peener?"
361
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,160
"Tell us all about it.
We want to know."
362
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:13,720
"What did he say?"
363
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,760
"Is it true that he likes
to be shit on?"
364
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,040
You'd meet people in there that
you'd never thought you'd meet.
365
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,520
I really liked Andy.
366
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,120
I thought Andy was great
because he was really unique.
367
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,160
He really did want to take
pictures of everybody.
368
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,280
I don't know how many
Polaroids he took
369
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,760
of everybody in that
room that night,
370
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,520
but he did that every night.
371
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,240
Mickey took care of us.
372
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,040
Mickey did, yeah.
373
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,840
The chickpeas on the table.
374
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,880
And if somebody started
a chickpeas war,
375
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,720
then it was all out.
376
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,080
Bang! You'd get hit,
377
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,640
and you'd see somebody
on the side go, "Yeah, got you!"
378
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,000
And it might be
Elizabeth Taylor.
379
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,000
I remember going there
one night with George Harrison,
380
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,880
and one of the cool
things with him was
381
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,640
there'd be three girls
at the other end,
382
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,320
you know, on the other
side of the table.
383
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:04,160
He always carried
a little pouch of rubies,
384
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,280
and once he decided
which one he wanted to be with,
385
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,680
he would put the ruby down
in front of her.
386
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,080
And if she picked up the ruby,
that was a done deal then.
387
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,560
Well, you know, there were
nights I went in there...
388
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,280
And I knew John Lennon.
389
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:23,400
And he was always trying
to get me into politics.
390
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,840
You know, John loved politics.
391
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,000
He loved the whole,
"We can change the world."
392
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,000
I said, "John, you want
to change the world.
393
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,520
I'm just trying
to entertain them."
394
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:32,520
[laughs]
395
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,840
I remember Jane Fonda,
396
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,840
you know, sitting next to
these heroin dealers.
397
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,320
But that's what she wanted.
398
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:44,120
She wanted to be
around the lowlifes,
399
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,840
the real gritty New York scene,
400
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,000
which that's what it was.
401
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,360
I was just the kid,
402
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,240
and I would come there
with the folks and eat dinner
403
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,240
and pass out, and they'd
stay there all night.
404
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,240
Allegedly, they only
forgot me once.
405
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:58,800
[interviewer laughs]
406
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,440
That's the story that
I have heard, however.
407
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:02,760
And so, consequently,
408
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,920
I'm a second generation
Max's aficionado.
409
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,800
[rock music playing]
410
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,040
The Dolls were pure New York,
411
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,200
and they had no problem
walking around
412
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,200
in high heels and all this.
413
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,480
And I admired the fact
that they took it so far.
414
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,840
Well, there was nobody like them
at the time in New York City.
415
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,800
I mean, everything at Max's
had been more Velvet Underground
416
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,840
and all the Andy Warhol people,
417
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,800
and this was a totally
different scene.
418
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,720
This was a glam scene.
419
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,320
It was not like
the Velvet Underground.
420
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:42,760
We were hanging in the
same places, the same clubs.
421
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,160
Max's was the den
for the Dolls,
422
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,480
That was the sort of
headquarters for the Dolls.
423
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,400
And it was sort
of amateurish too.
424
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,600
It wasn't like going
to see Led Zeppelin
425
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,480
or these bands that were
really, like, professional.
426
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,640
It didn't look like
it was rehearsed.
427
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,080
It didn't look like...
It barely came together.
428
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:03,640
It was kind of like a trainwreck
in process or something.
429
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,480
So I went to see them
every week.
430
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:06,880
They had a residency.
431
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,880
And I would go there
all the time,
432
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,960
and I kept hoping that
they would get better.
433
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,080
We were playing the Coventry...
434
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,640
with KISS and the Ramones
opening up for us,
435
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,240
and people like that and stuff.
436
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,040
Moving out into the Boroughs,
437
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,840
you had the Harlots
of 42nd Street,
438
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,840
you had street punk,
the early performances of KISS.
439
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,960
You had a sense of
seeing growing
440
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,320
that would form a foundation
441
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:41,520
for a very elemental sense
of New York rock and roll.
442
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,800
The Dolls were
very much emblematic
443
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,600
of that next step
that culture takes.
444
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,440
Culture takes a next step.
445
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,160
They embodied many rock and roll
traditions within them:
446
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,200
the blues, the kind of
three-chord great hit single,
447
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,120
the sense of flash and trash,
and having a great time.
448
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,040
They were a great show band.
449
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,720
They reeked of rock stardom,
450
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,560
which meant that they were after
what we were after also.
451
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,480
In Europe, they wouldn't
be aware of the Dolls
452
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,600
and be interested
in their music.
453
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,360
In America, they couldn't
have cared less.
454
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,920
They thought they were a
bunch of druggie transvestites
455
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,000
who wore women's dresses
on stage,
456
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,440
which was not true at all.
457
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,200
A new rock group has surfaced
at Max's Kansas City
458
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,600
and created a sellout.
459
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,480
[Sylvain Sylvain] Our
first album had just come out.
460
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,880
It was just released,
and we were scheduled
461
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,680
to play Max's Kansas City
for six nights in a row.
462
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,720
We sold it out,
two shows a night.
463
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,280
And it was a small place.
464
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,120
I mean, 50 people, 60 people.
465
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,080
You know, you put
100 people in there,
466
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,040
and that's-- they're gone.
467
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,680
I saw the Dolls,
and they played Max's,
468
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,600
and I said, "You know,
I could do this.
469
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,560
I could get a band together,
I'm doing it on the stage."
470
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,920
Obviously, the biggest
foundational event
471
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,320
was when Danny Fields
decided to drag Iggy Pop
472
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,880
down to Max's one night,
where he ran into David Bowie.
473
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,760
And the Bowie-Iggy Pop
coalition, from that point,
474
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,880
became legendary,
with a series of albums
475
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,840
and working back and forth
with each other.
476
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,280
I think the most interesting
thing about Max's Kansas City
477
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,560
was it was at a time
when the rock world
478
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,200
and the art world
melded together,
479
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,120
and it was also a time
480
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,840
when the audience
wanted something new.
481
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:39,680
[rock music playing]
482
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,520
[Neon Leon]
And then you had the MIAMIS,
483
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,080
and they had a great song
484
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:47,920
which was very popular
in the underground
485
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,760
called "We Deliver".
486
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,760
Because they came up
with this thing about,
487
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,160
"OK, you call us on the phone,
and we deliver."
488
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,080
But they weren't
delivering pizza.
489
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:00,640
They had a spliff
delivery service.
490
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,960
New York in the '70s,
it was just this kind of place.
491
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,040
It was like, anything goes.
492
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,560
There were no limits.
493
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,680
A little scary too.
494
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,360
[laughs]
You know.
495
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,160
They weren't aiming
for punk rock.
496
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,280
I mean, although
they did do Suicide
497
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,840
and New York Dolls
and such,
498
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,160
they were also doing
Howlin' Wolf.
499
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,680
When Mickey had Max's, the music
upstairs was very eclectic.
500
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,480
You had folk singers.
501
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,360
I mean, you could
have Arlo Guthrie,
502
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,760
you could have
Bruce Springsteen, the Wailers,
503
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,480
John Fahey, and myself.
504
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,160
♪♪
505
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,520
♪ Well after baby comes around
We're going downtown ♪
506
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,560
♪ And see what it is
we should know ♪
507
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,440
♪ Don't matter about the city
508
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,160
♪ Girls and boys
Are always pretty ♪
509
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,360
♪ And like leaves in the fall
They will blow ♪
510
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,520
♪ Into the place
Where there's a scene ♪
511
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,000
♪ And a screaming machine
They will go ♪
512
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,000
♪ And you can laugh
You can stare ♪
513
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,880
♪ But we're all
In the same damn show ♪
514
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,000
♪ Na-na-na-na-na
515
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,960
♪ Na-na-na-na-na
516
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,080
♪♪
517
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,840
♪ You might find yourself
In Paris ♪
518
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,400
♪ In a burning drugstore
519
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,440
♪ And Rome's Spanish steps
Are just around the corner ♪
520
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,040
♪ You can be in London
In a hard rock cafe ♪
521
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,640
♪ And Max's Kansas City
Got the same things to say ♪
522
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,320
♪ And I said, Whoa now baby
What are we doing this for? ♪
523
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,840
♪ And she says,
You better shut up ♪
524
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,480
♪ Cause you know who
Just walked in the door ♪
525
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,760
♪ Now give me something more
526
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,880
[instrumental]
527
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,560
I'm not sure, but he left
a lot of bills behind.
528
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,440
Because when I was with David
Bowie's management company,
529
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,920
I had a charge account at Max's
530
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,920
and ran up all kinds of bills,
531
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,200
and a lot of people ran up
bills, and Mickey couldn't--
532
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,360
It was all these bills
that he couldn't pay or make.
533
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,400
[Peter Crowley]
Mickey had walked away.
534
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,600
I don't think he even
declared bankruptcy,
535
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,920
and he just turned the key
and lock, and walked away.
536
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,880
While Tommy Dean was in Paris
with Laura Dean,
537
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,720
they saw in the Herald-Tribune
538
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,000
that Max's had gone
out of business,
539
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,280
so they called their lawyer
in New York and said,
540
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,800
"Go check and see what it would
take to get this place."
541
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,280
The lawyer discovered that
there was one lien, $3,500.
542
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,080
Tommy paid the electric bill,
boom, he got Max's Kansas City.
543
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:54,120
["Hangin' Out
by Elliott Murphy plays]
544
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,400
[music fades]
545
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,360
-♪ Gimme a C
-♪ C
546
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,680
-♪ Gimme a B
-♪ B
547
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,360
-♪ Gimme a G
-♪ G
548
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:03,880
-♪ Gimme a B
-♪ B
549
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,160
-♪ What's that spell?
-♪ CBGB
550
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,600
-♪ What's that smell?
-♪ CBGB
551
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,160
[Jimi LaLumia] Wayne County,
in December of 1973.
552
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,160
It was the first of the Max's
recorded artists
553
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,600
to play
Hilly's on the Bowery,
554
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,920
just as it was about
to turn into CBGB's.
555
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,800
Wayne opened that door
at that time.
556
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,000
The fabrication of television,
557
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,360
just happened to be walking
down the street one day in 1974,
558
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,280
when Hilly was
changing the sign,
559
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,560
and that's how CBGB's
was discovered?
560
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:39,680
No.
561
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,160
Oh, New York City in the mid 70s
was Danger City.
562
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,800
And I remember getting on the
train after a night of Max's,
563
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,040
and once, Clem Burke
got on the train with me
564
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,040
to sort of scope it out
and make sure everything was OK
565
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,000
because it was Danger City.
566
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,800
[Frank Infante]
The Lower East Side, back then,
567
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,320
you just went there
to cop heroin.
568
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:05,120
There was no other reason
for me to be there.
569
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,640
The rents were cheap and all,
570
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,160
but in terms of anybody else
going there, there was no point
571
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,320
in going unless
you're going to go get drugs.
572
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:14,040
And so you had
a place like CBGB's
573
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,040
that met people
574
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,280
that really didn't have any kind
of reputation or anything.
575
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,200
You could be anybody and just
go down there and get a gig.
576
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,760
At that point, CBGB's
was the only game in town.
577
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,800
82 Club had closed,
578
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,280
every other venue
for unsigned bands was dead,
579
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,680
and my friend, Mike Umbers,
turned me on to Mother's.
580
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,280
And I went up there,
and I built the stage
581
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,360
and started
putting bands in there.
582
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,480
And then when Max's reopened,
it opened as a disco.
583
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,560
And that wasn't working,
584
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,680
and the new owner asked me
if I would help him out.
585
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,200
And I said, OK,
and I just moved
586
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,640
all my Mother's operations
into Max's.
587
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,200
But Peter Crowley,
588
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,160
when he started
booking the bands at Max's,
589
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,040
it totally changed Max's.
590
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,520
It put Max's really on the map
with all those bands, you know,
591
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,280
bands like Blondie
and the Ramones playing there.
592
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,880
Peter ran Max's,
he managed Wayne County.
593
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,640
He got us.
He understood us right away.
594
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,640
Hillary never understood us.
595
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,880
CBGB's, God bless Hillary,
596
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,560
but Hillary, the whole thing
fell into his lap,
597
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,360
and I never ever,
ever got the impression
598
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,800
he knew what to do with it.
599
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,040
He didn't understand the music,
600
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,240
or he didn't understand
the Ramones or the Dead Boys.
601
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,400
I don't think
he understood any of it.
602
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,120
[Frank Infante]
And basically, it was taken over
603
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,320
by a certain bunch
of people and bands,
604
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,760
and it became the place
for all these bands to play,
605
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,480
you know, like the home spot.
606
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,440
[Peter Crowley]
It built on itself,
607
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,960
and then all these record
companies started coming down,
608
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,880
and they started to sign groups.
609
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:58,080
[rock music playing]
610
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,520
[Louie X. Erlanger]
You know, Mink DeVille...
611
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,000
I met Mink DeVille down there.
612
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,560
He really knocked me out
as a singer.
613
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,600
I heard him do
"These Arms of Mine",
614
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,280
and I just thought,
"This guy can sing anything,
615
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,520
and there's no young singers
that can sing like this."
616
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,160
He had a voice that
could go very deep
617
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,120
and also could reach up
to falsetto with no effort.
618
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,960
Willy DeVille was the coolest
guy on the scene, absolutely.
619
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,160
And you know what, the other
bands recognized it as well.
620
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,640
I remember having a conversation
with Jerry Nolan
621
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,520
and him saying,
"Watch this guy.
622
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,840
He's the epitome of cool."
623
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,000
And he was. There was nobody
like Willy DeVille.
624
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,440
[Jimi LaLumia] So Max's
developed its own lineup,
625
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,720
and CB's developed
their own lineup as well.
626
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,400
And at a certain point,
things became a bit more rigid.
627
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,800
["Junkie See, Junkie Do"
by Jimi LaLumia plays]
628
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,520
Yeah, the whole scene
really was concentrated
629
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,040
at Max's and CBGB's.
630
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,400
Some bands were Max's bands,
some bands were CBGB's bands,
631
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,200
and sometimes
there was crossover.
632
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,480
If you were going to Max's,
you were going to CB's.
633
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,880
If you were going to CB's,
you were going to Max's.
634
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,160
There was this whole thing of
like CB's bands and Max's bands.
635
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,840
But when I was in Shrapnel,
we were lucky enough
636
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,480
to play both places.
637
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,520
CB's didn't have a back room.
638
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,240
CB's had the Bowery,
you know what I mean?
639
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,720
CB's had the hotel next door,
the Bum hotel,
640
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,440
and they're throwing bottles
at us downstairs.
641
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,320
[Neon Leon]
It was a very creative place,
642
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,760
but Hilly had a dog,
643
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,760
and there was shit
all over the floor!
644
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,560
He never would clean the shit,
645
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,040
and he didn't really
clean the bathrooms.
646
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,440
So all the bathrooms
smelled like urine,
647
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,840
the floor smelled like shit,
but the music was good.
648
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,520
That was a drag because
it was a great place to be.
649
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,000
It really was.
650
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,680
[Elliott Murphy]
I played one gig at CBGB's.
651
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,800
I was not a fan of CBGB's.
652
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,280
I thought it was a dump,
you know.
653
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,360
But I liked Max's.
654
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,640
By the time Tommy Dean came in,
it was punk, and it was--
655
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,840
He was booking a lot of the
same bands who played at CBGB's.
656
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,880
But I didn't just book
local bands
657
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,040
at Max's in the beginning.
658
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,120
So I brought in Luther Allison,
659
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,320
Mongo Santamaria,
660
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,080
Discotex,
and the Sex-O-Lettes.
661
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,800
This was not working out,
662
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,320
so I stopped doing that
after a few weeks
663
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,080
and concentrated
on the New York bands
664
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,920
who would work for the door.
665
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,160
And we gave them the door,
666
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,200
whereas Hilly
gave them the door
667
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,400
after he took the Hilly tax
off the top.
668
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,240
So everybody liked
to play Max's more than CBGB's.
669
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,640
Every band was different.
670
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,120
There wasn't one kind of thing.
671
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,240
I couldn't categorize it
as just punk rock or what--
672
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,120
You couldn't really pin down
673
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,600
because all different kinds
of bands played there.
674
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,600
Max's volume two,
675
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,600
when it changed hands from
Mickey Ruskin to Tommy Dean,
676
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:01,760
was really the birth
677
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,440
of the New York underground
at that point.
678
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,600
Because prior to that, with the
exception of the New York Dolls
679
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,480
and maybe one or two
other artists,
680
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Max's was very mainstream
record label acts
681
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,960
or acts that were auditioning
for Clive Davis, primarily.
682
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,520
Clive signed Bruce Springsteen
at Max's Kansas City.
683
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,040
He signed Aerosmith
at Max's Kansas City.
684
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:35,000
[soft rock music playing]
685
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,800
One day, I'm walking down
in front of the Chelsea Hotel
686
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,200
on 23rd Street in New York.
687
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,160
Who do I see coming out
the lot is the front?
688
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,760
Malcolm McLaren.
689
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,440
He said,
"How's the Dolls, mate?",
690
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:48,680
you know, and all this.
691
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,320
And I say, ""Ah,
692
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,120
pretty fucked up, man,
we're about to break up."
693
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,760
And then that's how
we got together
694
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,440
and we started doing the whole
Red Patent Leather show.
695
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,200
[Bob Gruen] It wasn't
like he became
696
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,840
the manager of
the New York Dolls.
697
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,240
He kind of organized some shows
698
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,840
so that they would
wear his clothes.
699
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,200
What Malcolm did do
was save their lives
700
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,800
because they were so
down and out.
701
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,120
Johnny and Jerry had
pretty severe heroin habits.
702
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,679
Arthur was drinking more
than anybody had ever seen.
703
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,520
So Malcolm put Arthur
into Roosevelt Hospital,
704
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,480
into a detox unit there,
and he got Jerry and Johnny
705
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,679
into a kind of
drug detox situation
706
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:25,840
to clean them up a bit,
707
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,639
basically so that
they could play a show
708
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,960
and wear his clothes,
and publicize his outfits.
709
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,400
For me, seeing the Dolls
in that period
710
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,880
was seeing actually
an era transition.
711
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:44,480
Because you've also lost
the glam rock scene
712
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,120
that was part of New York
in the early '70s.
713
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:50,560
And it's moved over
to a club called CBGB,
714
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,960
where the style of dress
is different
715
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,480
and the attitude is different,
716
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,600
and the presentation
is different.
717
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,040
A band like Aerosmith
started out making money
718
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,440
and just kept making money,
719
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,080
and they were making
money in barrels.
720
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,240
The Dolls were like losing money
in fucking barrels.
721
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,400
And they're gonna go,
take Arthur out of rehab
722
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,280
and go down to Florida
and start a tour
723
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,040
with no roadie
and Malcolm driving.
724
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,520
But as soon as they got there,
Johnny and Jerry
725
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,360
were more interested
in feeding their heroin habit
726
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,400
than in playing any shows.
727
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,040
And they got some
of the local kids to go out
728
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,200
and try to find new heroin,
and it wasn't good enough,
729
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,040
and they wanted to come back to
New York to get some more dope.
730
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,160
But yes, I mean, it's very hard
for anybody to score,
731
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,920
especially back in 1975
in Tampa, Florida.
732
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,280
That's where we were.
733
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:40,400
Thunders and Nolan can't
score drugs down there,
734
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,160
and they said, "Well, fuck it.
We're going back to New York."
735
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,280
And David told them that
if they came back to New York,
736
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,200
if they left the tour
just because of drugs,
737
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:50,720
he didn't want to play
with them anymore.
738
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,800
[Marty Thau]
And at that point,
739
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,840
David and Syl knew
that the Dolls were over.
740
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,440
[Bob Gruen] In the end, they
were truly ahead of their time.
741
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,240
They predicted not only
the coming of punk
742
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,440
but the renaissance
of garage rock.
743
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,800
[rock music playing]
744
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,960
I think Syl had
to sell a guitar
745
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,160
in order to buy
a ticket for Malcolm
746
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,760
to get back to London.
747
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,120
[rock music playing]
748
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,240
He said to me, "Mate,
what do you want to do?
749
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,640
"I've got all these--
my wife's got all these kids
750
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,000
"hanging around the shop,
751
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,080
"and we could put
a great band together for you,"
752
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,320
and all this kind of stuff.
753
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,760
And I said, "All right,
well, let's try it."
754
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,480
And he said to me,
"Look, give me your guitar
755
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,080
and your piano, by the way, and
I'll send you a plane ticket."
756
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,600
[Marty Thau]
And he went back to London
757
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,240
with his tail between his legs,
758
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:47,040
but he learned a lot
from the downtown music makers
759
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,600
and taste makers.
760
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,640
And so he put together
the Sex Pistols,
761
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,680
which was a combination
of the Dolls attitude
762
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:00,160
and the Ramones
three-chord riff,
763
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:01,880
and Richard Hell's fashion.
764
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,760
[Sylvain Sylvain]
He loved Richard Hell.
765
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,040
He left me a suit
that I gave to Richard.
766
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,120
He took that whole--
he borrowed, man,
767
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,320
from that whole thing there
with The Police,
768
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,160
"Kill Me",
"The Blank Generation".
769
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,080
We did all this.
770
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,200
We put all this together.
771
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:20,600
This guy, this shopkeeper,
comes in,
772
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,800
and he takes all the ideas,
and he runs with it.
773
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,520
[Peter Crowley]
Malcolm claimed that
774
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,440
he invented the Sex Pistols,
yada, yada, yada.
775
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,360
That's an extreme exaggeration.
776
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,480
He did introduce
Rotten to the band,
777
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,360
but the band already existed,
778
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,840
and basically,
they created themselves.
779
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,280
[Billy Idol] Eventually,
in England, it did explode,
780
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,440
and it went kind of mega,
you know.
781
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,080
The Pistols went mega
after being on the bill grunge.
782
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,400
It just exploded.
783
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,960
[Penny Arcade]
I remember Danny Fields
784
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,160
asking me to come down to CBGB's
785
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,440
because he was
representing the Ramones.
786
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,280
I had never seen the Ramones.
787
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:58,880
And then you go in,
788
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,320
and there were these
gawky-looking creatures,
789
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,400
you know,
790
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,560
and they were all wearing
motorcycle jackets.
791
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,440
[Jay Jay French] They were
simple, but they were--
792
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:09,840
they had something.
793
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,280
You could see it.
794
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,520
There was a unification
of images,
795
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,920
a unification of playing.
796
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,680
There were all exactly
on the same page.
797
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:19,360
[Peter Crowley] When you have
the Ramones on one hand,
798
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,680
and Blondie, and Talking Heads,
799
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:27,440
lumping them together
as punk rock was a bit strange.
800
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,000
The Talking Heads were
definitely a breakthrough band.
801
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,120
The Ramones
we would go to see,
802
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,920
but the Ramones,
after a short period of time,
803
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,120
became more of a CBGB's band.
804
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,480
[Alice Cooper]
I love the Ramones
805
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,800
because the Ramones
were just street kids.
806
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,800
They didn't try
to be the Beatles.
807
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,360
They weren't trying to be this.
808
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:45,840
They were the Ramones.
809
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,360
When you heard a Ramones song,
you knew it was the Ramones.
810
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,040
When you heard a Blondie song,
you knew it was Blondie.
811
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,600
That's the important thing,
is that identity.
812
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,680
The identity was so strong.
813
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,560
To get that identity that nobody
else had was really important.
814
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,480
[Jayne County] Blondie,
815
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,720
with their radio-friendly
approach to pop singles,
816
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,680
became theband.
817
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:15,520
The group reflecting the success
of the New York rock scene.
818
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,760
No one would believe
that Blondie
819
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,920
was going to become
such a-- so big.
820
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,480
And when she became bigger,
it's like, "Oh my God,
821
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:29,000
"yeah, even Patti Smith
got a little crazy
822
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,920
when she started
getting so big."
823
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,520
I always considered Debbie
the Marilyn Monroe of punk.
824
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,560
And Patti Smith, well,
825
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,360
she's not the Marilyn Monroe
of punk, that's for sure.
826
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,360
So I DJ'ed at
Mickey Ruskin's Max's
827
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,040
and I DJ'ed at
Tommy Lane's Max's.
828
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,840
I remember Dee Dee Ramone coming
to me and in the record booth
829
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,520
and the DJ booth,
830
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,280
and saying to me,
"They're all saying we're punk.
831
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,080
We're not punk,
we're rock and roll."
832
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,200
Punk was kind of forced
on everyone.
833
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:02,760
[Penny Arcade]
People want to go on and on
834
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,720
about punk at Max's
835
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,800
as if it was some kind
of political movement
836
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,680
like it was in London.
837
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,560
In England, punk
was a political movement.
838
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,720
In New York, punk
was a bunch of people
839
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,000
trying to get a record deal.
840
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,440
[rock music playing]
841
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,880
[Jayne County] Dee Dee was going
out with this crazy girlfriend
842
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,600
who had been
with Arthur Kane before,
843
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,040
and she had tried to chop off
Arthur Kane
844
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,520
from the New York Dolls;
845
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,880
tried to chop off his stumps
so he couldn't play bass.
846
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,560
What was her name?
847
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,160
Crazy... Crazy Connie.
848
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,320
Everyone called her
Crazy Connie.
849
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,280
She was totally psychotic,
850
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,200
and that was the story
that people used to tell
851
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:57,720
about how when Dee Dee was
going up to 53rd and 3rd...
852
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,440
♪ 53rd and 3rd
853
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,080
["53rd and 3rd"
by The Ramones plays]
854
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,360
♪ Let's cruise to the shore
Get some beer ♪
855
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,280
♪ We need some more
I feel good tonight ♪
856
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,040
♪ Let's get drunk
And have a fight... ♪
857
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,080
And he came back from hustling,
858
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,920
went up to 53rd and 3rd,
859
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,160
and Connie got mad because
Connie caught him with a trick,
860
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:24,360
and she freaked out and tried
to stab Dee Dee in the cock,
861
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,760
and tried to cut his cock off.
862
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,320
And he had scars on his cock.
863
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,320
And so one night at Max's,
864
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,360
I was upstairs
in the dressing room
865
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,160
and Dee Dee came up
to go to the bathroom.
866
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,160
And he went to the bathroom,
and he turned around and said,
867
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,520
"Wayne, look at my cock,
look at my dick, look what she--
868
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:43,920
"Connie tried to chop it off.
869
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,960
Look, there's scars
all over my dick."
870
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,120
And Dee Dee was the first person
who noticed my tits
871
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,200
when I was growing--
started taking hormones
872
00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:54,680
and growing my chest.
873
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:57,160
And Dee Dee was like,
"You've got tits, Wayne.
874
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:58,640
Look you've got little tits."
875
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,880
And I said, "Yeah,
I'm going to grow tits."
876
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,440
And he said, "Oh,
don't grow 'em real big.
877
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,240
Don't grow 'em real big,
just grow a handful."
878
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,360
And he took his hands,
and he put them right there.
879
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,400
"Just grow a little.
Just a handful is enough."
880
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,840
But luckily, I didn't have
to get anything done.
881
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,000
They just grew on their own,
882
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,440
much to the disbelief
of people at Max's.
883
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:25,040
And Patti Smith, oh my God!
What a bad reaction!
884
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,560
She saw them.
885
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,640
I was walking down the street
one day and I ran into Patti.
886
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,760
And I go, "Hey Patti",
and she goes, "hey, hey.."
887
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,480
[mumbles]
...like that, you know.
888
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,360
And then she went...
889
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,160
...back like that because
she got a gander on my tits.
890
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,440
Her reaction was like,
"What's that?"
891
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,560
And then she clammed up,
so it was--
892
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,000
My tits were
very famous at Max's.
893
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,760
[Peter Crowley]
The place was pretty successful
894
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:55,920
with those bookings,
895
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:01,520
and Tommy set out immediately
to enlarge the upstairs.
896
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,560
So we ended up with a room
that would hold 200 people.
897
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,160
Well, Tommy Dean was great.
898
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,400
But basically,
you worked for Laura Dean.
899
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:11,760
She was the boss.
900
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,720
She wore the pants.
901
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:17,480
[Jayne County] You know,
during the first,
902
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,600
Max's was really--
903
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,040
The place was really
for artists
904
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,640
and for the Warhol crowd,
and people like that.
905
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,040
During the second Max's,
it was more the music.
906
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,800
It was Blondie, Ramones...
907
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,040
Patti played there, of course,
on television,
908
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,000
and all these other bands that
didn't go on to do anything
909
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,520
but they were
part of the Max's scene.
910
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,280
There were a lot of people
that hung out at Max's
911
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,120
that made Max's what it was
912
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,440
that did not go on
to be big stars,
913
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,880
but they really did make Max's.
914
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,040
One thing about Max's is
you oftentimes went on
915
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,400
very, very late, super late.
916
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:57,200
So what we were looking at in
our audience were prostitutes,
917
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:59,240
taxi drivers, Warhol,
918
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,200
superstars, junkies, writers...
919
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:06,280
whoever didn't have to wake up
like at 8 o'clock or earlier.
920
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,520
♪♪
921
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,800
♪ Some say
922
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,600
♪ That we [inaudible]
923
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,400
♪ That life is just for living
924
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,880
♪ The object only win
925
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,240
♪ Keep your head
926
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,800
♪ But I say
927
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:48,320
♪ There is no denying
928
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:52,680
♪ We all question dying
929
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,720
♪ If you can't hear the crying
930
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,040
♪ Then you're [inaudible]
931
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:07,040
[vocalizing]
932
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,440
[Sonny Vincent] We liked Max's
because you could do
933
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,160
anything you wanted to there.
934
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,240
You could be wild,
you could lay down,
935
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,480
you could jump in the audience,
you could deconstruct songs,
936
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,520
you could play songs
with bad endings,
937
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,080
play bad songs
with great endings...
938
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,440
You could experiment,
do whatever you wanted to.
939
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,120
We really felt like
we'd arrive somewhere
940
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,240
and that this was the center
of the universe for us.
941
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,400
Every night
there were genius bands.
942
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,360
I don't remember seeing
any band I didn't like.
943
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,160
[Peter Crowley] I found
The Cramps at CBGB's,
944
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,840
and they were doing
the audition night.
945
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,160
In the middle of their set,
Hilly came over and poked me,
946
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,840
and he laughed, and he said,
"You think they're serious?"
947
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,200
And I said, "I don't know
if they're serious,
948
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:00,080
but I think they're fabulous."
949
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,720
I mean, they were terrible.
950
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,800
They were so out of tune
it was painful.
951
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,600
They were crying because
they came from Ohio
952
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,440
and they expected
to be CBGB stars,
953
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,440
and here they were
being rejected.
954
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,880
And I said,
"You can come to Max's
955
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,240
"and I'll give you bookings,
956
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,920
but you got to bring
a tuning machine to my office."
957
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,960
[Phil Caivano] The other band
that I really think
958
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,280
doesn't get enough credit,
Suicide...
959
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,560
they were really
that art music,
960
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,800
didn't know what was
going to happen,
961
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,360
scary, phenomenal.
962
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:40,000
There was one time Alan got up
on stage with a cassette player
963
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,760
and played it through the PA
because Marty wasn't there.
964
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,080
Like, it's a Suicide show,
it didn't matter.
965
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,760
I call him Suicide.
966
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,560
So for me, he always
did weird shit.
967
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,600
And when Suicide played,
it could be quite an event.
968
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,280
Bottles being flung,
969
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,480
physicality,
being chased off stage.
970
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,800
[Alan Vega] [inaudible] Suicide
was [inaudible] me,
971
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,280
We both had our way.
972
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,240
And our way was democracy.
973
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,840
So in words, we only played
what was good for both of us.
974
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,920
And then the Max's Kansas City
album came out,
975
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,600
and I recorded three tracks.
976
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,680
Peter Crowley decided to take
my "Death to Disco" single
977
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:26,640
after my borrowing a paragraph
from Punk Magazine.
978
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,680
And that became a mainstay on
the Max's Kansas City jukebox.
979
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:32,680
[Sonny Vincent] The scene was
great as far as the clubs
980
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:34,880
and the music.
981
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,920
It was really inspiring,
a lot of feeling.
982
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:45,040
And a lot of the bands were
very raw, which I liked a lot.
983
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,520
I liked the rawness.
984
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,840
I liked the fact
that it wasn't fake.
985
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,640
Nobody was doing it
only for the money,
986
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,440
except perhaps
a few notable exceptions.
987
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,640
And yeah, it was great.
988
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,400
It was really great. It was
inspiring chills and thrills.
989
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,240
In high school,
I really used to go a lot.
990
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,160
I used to kind of cut class
and take a train at the city,
991
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,000
and go to 48th Street
and check out all the guitars,
992
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,400
and then I'd head down
to Max's Kansas City
993
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:17,920
and spend all night there,
994
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,160
and come home late
and get in trouble.
995
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,160
[rock music playing]
996
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,760
[crowd cheering]
997
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,880
One of the pivotal moments
in the New York rock scene
998
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:41,200
was the Dick Manitoba-
Wayne County incident at CBGB's.
999
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:44,320
After that occurred, the scene
was never quite the same.
1000
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,040
There was a real divide between
Max's Kansas City and CBGB.
1001
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,360
And that was mainly
because of the fight I had
1002
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,760
with Dick Manitoba
onstage at CBGB's.
1003
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:59,080
He was harassing me and saying
very homophobic things.
1004
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:00,960
[Jimi LaLumia] Manitoba
of the Dictators
1005
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,600
heckled Wayne County in a way
that Wayne took as menacing.
1006
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,560
[Jayne County] And then
he jumped up on stage
1007
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,000
to go to the bathroom,
but I didn't know
1008
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:09,240
he was going to the bathroom.
1009
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,040
I thought he was jumping up
onstage to hit me.
1010
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,640
He'd been yelling horrible
things at me from the audience.
1011
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,640
When he jumped up on stage,
1012
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,120
I did not wait to see
what he was going to do.
1013
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,720
I just conked him
with the mic then,
1014
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,800
and he fell off the stage
and hit his head into a table
1015
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,080
and gave himself a concussion.
1016
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,440
[bell dings]
1017
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,600
Then he proceeded to jump up
on stage again with me.
1018
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,640
[Jimi LaLumia]
They wound up on stage together,
1019
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,400
battling, fighting, punching.
1020
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,680
[Jayne County] And finally, I
had to pin him down to the floor
1021
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:39,600
and just go bam, bam, bam.
1022
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,240
There's blood everywhere,
you know.
1023
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,080
[bell dings]
1024
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:51,040
And it just turned into
a whole War and Peacescenario,
1025
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,480
which divided
the New York rock scene.
1026
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:57,680
And I think that people
at Max's were disappointed
1027
00:49:57,720 --> 00:49:59,880
because they said, "Oh my God,
1028
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:04,200
we wish that this had happened
at Max's and not CBGB's."
1029
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,520
[Phyllis Stein]
The Heartbreakers
1030
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,720
were a Max's band straight out.
1031
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,880
And part of the reason
they were a Max's band
1032
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,680
is because Max's
paid them a lot more
1033
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:18,200
than Hilly paid his bands.
1034
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:20,320
The Dolls had been a Max's band,
1035
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,400
so it was a natural progression
for the Heartbreakers.
1036
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:29,080
[rock music playing]
1037
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,840
That band basically
revolved around drugs,
1038
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,480
not as a band
but as individual members.
1039
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:45,320
[Jayne County] They brought in
a very drug-oriented audience
1040
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,920
because at one time,
people used to come to Max's
1041
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,000
to see if this is going
to be the gig at Max's,
1042
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,040
that Johnny Thunders drops dead.
1043
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,840
Eventually,
he played on it, you know.
1044
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,760
They had advertisements: "Catch
us while we're still alive."
1045
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,120
[Jayne County] They also
captured a New York sensibility.
1046
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:09,520
You know, Chinese Rocksand
that sense of dissolute abandon.
1047
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,560
[Bob Gruen] In spite of
whatever drugs he was on,
1048
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,000
he knew how to take care
of business.
1049
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,880
Of course he was
pretty slick about it.
1050
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,880
He'd have a show
at Max's scheduled,
1051
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,360
and so he'd talk Tommy, - a teen
who was the manager at Max's -
1052
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:22,920
he'd talk Tommy into
giving him an advance,
1053
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,080
and then he'd show up
on the day of the show
1054
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,440
and say there was nothing
he could do.
1055
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,120
He had pawned his guitar,
he'd run out of money,
1056
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,520
and he had the guitar
in the pawn shop
1057
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,840
and he needed more money
or he couldn't play the show.
1058
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,520
And Tommy was in a bind. If
he said no, there was no show.
1059
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,200
If he said yes,
they don't make money.
1060
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:41,040
So he's the kind of guy
that if the show sucked,
1061
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:42,280
it didn't matter.
1062
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,440
It was always exciting and cool,
1063
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,560
even if he fucked up,
and it didn't really matter.
1064
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,960
But when he was on,
and everybody was all together,
1065
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,600
obviously, it was better.
1066
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,800
Possibly some of the greatest
rock and roll music
1067
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,040
ever composed
1068
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,960
by some of the greatest,
including Jerry Nolan,
1069
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,800
who was crazier than them all.
1070
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,000
The greatest music that
you could possibly hope for,
1071
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,040
but just mismanagement,
including me,
1072
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,040
that just wrecked it up.
1073
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,200
We were all hanging
out at Max's.
1074
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,040
I mean regularly, every night,
1075
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,760
it would be Johnny,
Jerry, me, Stiv.
1076
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,360
Tommy Dean was still
supporting Johnny Thunders
1077
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,000
in a lot of ways
by giving them food
1078
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,680
and paying them advances,
and all of that kind of stuff.
1079
00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:30,200
During the Happy Hour,
there was free food,
1080
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:32,360
and a lot of the
musicians would come,
1081
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,480
and that would be their only
hot meal of the day.
1082
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:39,160
But that put 3,000 to 4,000
to $5000 in the register
1083
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,080
before I even did a soundcheck.
1084
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,080
Therefore there was
no heavy pressure on me
1085
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,160
to book for money.
1086
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,640
Well, I first went
to Max's in 1978.
1087
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,480
I was now in a group,
Generation X,
1088
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:57,960
my own punk rock group.
1089
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,360
I was actually on
a press junket in New York.
1090
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,280
Patti Smith was doing a showcase
for her album Radio Ethiopia
1091
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,960
at Max's, so who I first saw
1092
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,640
doing an incredible show
at Max's was Patti Smith.
1093
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:16,960
So it was like, "Wow."
1094
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,360
I mean, she was
a massive hero to us.
1095
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,480
And so we loved Horses,
1096
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,000
and there I was getting a sort
of a view into her new album.
1097
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,080
So Max's... there,
it was all coming true for me.
1098
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:33,960
[rock music playing]
1099
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,920
I used to hang out
at Max's all the time
1100
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,760
and CB's, and for a long time,
my old band, The Stimulators,
1101
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,520
we were almost like
the house band at Max's.
1102
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,000
We used to play there so much.
1103
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,160
Along comes Harley.
1104
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,320
12 years old, kicking
his drum kit over twice a night.
1105
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,040
And this was also two sets.
1106
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:58,080
Max's was two sets a night:
an early set and a late set.
1107
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,800
I'd go there to see
The Stimulators
1108
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,960
when I was a kid
before my band could play,
1109
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,280
and there was little Harley
playing the drums
1110
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,080
and Denise's aunt on guitar
blowing us away.
1111
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,320
We played there very often.
1112
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,960
We were beloved at Max's.
1113
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,680
And early on,
when we began,
1114
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:19,800
our set was so fast
and so invigorating.
1115
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,480
And we'd knock over the table
1116
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,960
so we could have room
to jump up and down,
1117
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,280
kind of Pogo-ing.
1118
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,240
So whenever
The Stimulators played,
1119
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,440
the staff had to take away
all the tables and chairs
1120
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,400
before we began,
or they would be destroyed.
1121
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,840
But anyway, I started playing
there around the same time
1122
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,160
that Sid was doing
all his shows there.
1123
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,000
He was living
in New York at the time.
1124
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,640
It was right after
he had left the Sex Pistols.
1125
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,960
[Jayne County] Oh yes, he used
to come to me and he'd go,
1126
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,480
"Wayne, do you think Sid is gay?
1127
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,400
"I think Sid not be gay.
1128
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,000
He can't fuck me."
1129
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:58,960
And I'm like, "You're on drugs,
you're on dope, you're on junk.
1130
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,520
He can't fuck you."
1131
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,920
The first Thursday,
Sid went over well
1132
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,480
as far as ticket sales
and all that sort of thing.
1133
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:08,960
Nancy was happy.
1134
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,560
Poor Sid was half dead.
1135
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,960
He had the flu
or something similar
1136
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,920
with a very high fever.
1137
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,840
He'd gathered a really
good set of musicians.
1138
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,880
The band was just fine.
1139
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,160
[Nick Marden] Mick Jones
jumped up in the air too much.
1140
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:24,680
[laughs]
1141
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:28,040
Other than that, they were a
good, solid rock and roll band,
1142
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,000
Mick Jones, Killer Kane,
and Jerry Nolan playing drums.
1143
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:32,400
What a fantastic band!
1144
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,640
And he sang.
He did his best.
1145
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,720
I mean, it was a lot
of criticism that people had,
1146
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,400
that they were shit
and everything.
1147
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,240
I thought it was great.
1148
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,040
You know, it's rock and roll,
it's not perfection.
1149
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,320
I loved when Sid sang.
1150
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,160
♪♪
1151
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,360
♪ I create a lot of problems
But now I'm really gonna try ♪
1152
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,880
♪ Been in a messy situation
1153
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,560
♪ And for you it's been no fun
1154
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,280
♪ But if we're
Getting down to favors ♪
1155
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,440
♪ Then honey you can do me one
1156
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,320
♪ But take a chance on me
1157
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,840
♪ Take a chance on me
1158
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,400
♪ Take a chance on me
1159
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:23,960
♪ Take a chance on me, yeah
1160
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,280
[instrumental]
1161
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,520
♪ Well I know
I'm just a junkie ♪
1162
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,000
♪ And I can't make it
off the floor ♪
1163
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,560
♪ But all that
Really doesn't matter ♪
1164
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,320
♪ Because with you
I'm something more ♪
1165
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,480
♪ It's just a little
Complicated ♪
1166
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,560
♪ And everything they say
Is true ♪
1167
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,960
[rock music playing]
1168
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,360
[Neon Leon] The death knell
for the scene, I think,
1169
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,040
was Sid and Nancy's deaths,
1170
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,240
and it brought
a kind of attention to it
1171
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:18,160
that wasn't really
necessary to the scene.
1172
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,720
It wasn't really safe in here.
1173
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:26,640
The blitz incident
took place in 1978,
1174
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:30,680
when a lot of bad things were
happening all over the scene.
1175
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,840
[Denise Mercedes] Johnny Blitz
got attacked and stabbed,
1176
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:35,400
and that was really bad.
1177
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,400
I mean, that kind of changed
the feeling of, like...
1178
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,320
punks and musicians
walking down the street
1179
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,240
and feeling that
you could get attacked
1180
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,760
because of the way you dressed
or the way you looked.
1181
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,760
[Sonny Vincent] I think
it was threatening to people,
1182
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,560
to the extent--
more than we realized.
1183
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,760
We'd walk down the street
and people would say,
1184
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,520
"Where the fuck you going?
To a Halloween party?"
1185
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,840
Or, you know, "Look at
that crazy motherfucker."
1186
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,440
[Denise Mercedes] It's funny
because when I think back
1187
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,400
to the whole punk scene
in New York,
1188
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:09,680
and CBGB's, and Max's,
1189
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,800
and you really think
about the different bands,
1190
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,520
I would say that
the Heartbreakers,
1191
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:20,080
and the Voidoids,
and even the Sex Pistols,
1192
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,600
I would say, were not tough.
1193
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,280
They were not
macho kind of guys.
1194
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,360
But the Dead Boys
were legitimately tough.
1195
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,520
They were from Cleveland.
They were from Youngstown.
1196
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,160
They were scrappy.
1197
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:34,800
They would mouth off to people.
1198
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,240
Even Stiv, as tiny as he was,
1199
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,680
wouldn't hesitate to get
into a fight with somebody.
1200
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,920
[rock music playing]
1201
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:46,800
We played with
the Talking Heads,
1202
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,080
we played with Iggy,
we played with the Ramones...
1203
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:54,240
You know, I got friendly
with the Ramones and Johnny.
1204
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:55,720
Especially Johnny.
1205
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,960
♪ Well everyone suffered
For weeks and for weeks ♪
1206
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:04,520
♪ When the telephone building
Burnt down ♪
1207
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,640
♪ Well, there were
Many lonely days ♪
1208
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,720
♪ When I just didn't speak
1209
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,560
♪ Well over on my side of town
1210
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,360
♪ Well over on my side of town
1211
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:27,160
♪ It's just like
when the circus is around ♪
1212
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:33,960
♪ You see the clowns
They're nodding out on downs ♪
1213
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,800
♪ And the junkies
Are making dead sounds ♪
1214
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:39,880
[vocalizing]
1215
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:44,200
♪ And I'm Ruby
From the wrong side of town ♪
1216
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:49,960
♪ And I'm a girl
With both feet on the ground ♪
1217
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:56,520
♪ I always thrive
while others just survive ♪
1218
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,560
♪ I'm Ruby
From the wrong side of town ♪
1219
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,160
[Jesse Malin] I tried
to sneak in a few times
1220
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,080
and in those days, they didn't
really hit you too hard
1221
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:09,960
if you were underage; 11, 12.
1222
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,360
It wasn't like it became
where they had IDs.
1223
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:13,440
But I tried to sneak in.
1224
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,000
I had no money,
and I had, I don't know,
1225
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,360
like a fifth of whiskey
or something on me,
1226
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:19,800
or some small...
I don't know what I had.
1227
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,320
And they threw me
down the stairs.
1228
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:22,600
The bouncers were really tough.
1229
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:24,480
And I just went
right down those stairs.
1230
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,600
Jesse, he was too young, man.
1231
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:31,280
Can't be throwing a little kid
down the damn stairs.
1232
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,560
Shoot.
1233
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:34,960
[Ruby Lynn Reyner]
In the beginning,
1234
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:36,960
it was like hanging out,
1235
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,760
and the people were interacting
with each other,
1236
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,000
and we were creating.
1237
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,240
Plus, I kind of,
at the same time,
1238
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,400
was introduced
to shooting amphetamine.
1239
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:53,280
And then it became
kind of a criminal element.
1240
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,480
It was like the speed...
1241
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,840
It got dark.
It became very dark.
1242
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,000
People would offer us
drugs as kids,
1243
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:04,480
and you could see
that so much of this
1244
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,800
was going on in bathrooms.
1245
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:10,080
And I also was noticing that,
at the time, that men and women
1246
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,000
would go into
the same bathroom together,
1247
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:13,160
and nobody bothered them.
1248
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:14,560
It was like-- that was normal.
1249
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,880
If one bathroom was full,
they'd just go on to another.
1250
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,400
You had men in the ladies room
all the time,
1251
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,360
and ladies going into
the men's restroom.
1252
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,000
The bathrooms that matches
were integrated.
1253
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,640
[Donna Destri] They weren't like
the bathrooms at CBGB's,
1254
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,880
where you took your life
in your hands.
1255
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,680
I mean, I would never go
to the bathrooms at CBGB's.
1256
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:40,520
That was just like bacteria
to the n-th degree.
1257
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,160
Max's were clean at least.
1258
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,920
There was some sex going on
in the bathrooms, I'm sure.
1259
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,600
There's the famous story
of Eric Emerson having sex
1260
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,480
in the bathrooms at Max's, so...
1261
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,320
I don't know
about that personally.
1262
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,280
[laughs]
1263
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,400
[Ruby Lynn Reyner] He used
to take girls into the bathroom
1264
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,520
and have sex with them.
1265
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:08,200
He asked me one time,
"Do you want to have my child?"
1266
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:13,680
[Louie X. Erlanger] Sex was
rampant in the bathrooms,
1267
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,200
as well as,
you go into a stall
1268
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:21,200
and you hear a lot of sniffing
in the stall next to you.
1269
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,240
[Harley Flanagan] It wasn't
like a bunch of rich people
1270
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:24,360
sniffing blow.
1271
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,400
It was a bunch of total
scumbag, crazy,
1272
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:34,520
punk rock, junkie, prostitute,
fucking messes.
1273
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,480
And here, my 12-year-old ass
is running around,
1274
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:41,160
hitting people up for quarters
for the pinball machine, yeah.
1275
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:43,120
"Do you have any quaaludes?"
1276
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,040
"Uh... No I'm on speed tonight."
1277
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:52,920
It was such
an extraordinary place,
1278
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,280
where you never know
who you would run into
1279
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:57,920
or see,
1280
01:02:57,960 --> 01:02:59,240
or who would perform.
1281
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,480
Everybody from Wayne County...
1282
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:05,040
Where else would you see
someone like Wayne County?
1283
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,920
Well, Jayne is, you know...
How can I shock you?
1284
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:10,880
And how many different ways?
1285
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,880
Fabulous.
Fabulous performer.
1286
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,960
Every couple of months,
I would play Max's.
1287
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,520
But when I moved to England,
I would come back and play
1288
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,120
like one night there,
and it would be a big night,
1289
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,440
because I'd been away
in England for six whole months.
1290
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:25,840
People would come to see me,
1291
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,160
there'd be lines
around the block.
1292
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,000
You know, lines around the block
at Max's Kansas City.
1293
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:32,760
"Come see us," you know.
1294
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,200
♪ The New York Dolls
Are kicking it out ♪
1295
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:37,040
♪ And looking it up
1296
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,080
♪ You've got
A personality crisis, baby ♪
1297
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,840
♪ Down at Max's
1298
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:46,920
♪ All the boys are
1299
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,520
♪ And all the girls are
1300
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:54,080
♪ All the kids are
They're down at Max's ♪
1301
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,120
♪ Blondie's all in a buzz
1302
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:04,920
♪ She's on the cover
Of the New York Rocker ♪
1303
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,800
♪ Dee Dee Ramone
Strips his bass to the bone ♪
1304
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,600
♪ He's a blitzkrieg
Blitzkrieg, blitzkrieg bopper ♪
1305
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:12,480
♪ The Heartbreakers
Are going to give you ♪
1306
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:15,360
♪ A taste of going steady
With Pirate Love ♪
1307
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,680
♪ You'd better watch it
'Cause the Electric Chairs ♪
1308
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:20,280
♪ Are gonna fry your brain
1309
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,360
♪ Come on, boys!
1310
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:23,760
♪ The downstairs is packed
1311
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,400
♪ And the groupies
Are all dressed up ♪
1312
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,280
♪ Upstairs the New York Dolls
1313
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,400
♪ Are kicking it out
And looking it up ♪
1314
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,440
♪ Bad girls
Just looking for a kiss ♪
1315
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:39,520
♪ Down at Max's
1316
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,520
♪ All the boys are
1317
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,360
♪ And all the girls are
1318
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,600
♪ All the kids are...
1319
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,440
[Jimi LaLumia] Years later,
I heard the various stories
1320
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:59,000
about money being manufactured
in the basement.
1321
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:03,080
I always said,
"I never heard that."
1322
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:04,720
Because if I did,
1323
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,800
I would probably have asked
for some of the gig money
1324
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,080
that we sometimes didn't get.
1325
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:18,440
[Peter Crowley] He and Laura,
again, they were in Paris.
1326
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,080
They have all their
brilliant ideas in Paris.
1327
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,000
And they noticed
that French money
1328
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:28,760
is different sizes for
the different denominations.
1329
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,720
And they noticed that American
money is all the same size.
1330
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,480
And the biggest problem
for counterfeiters in America,
1331
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,840
at that time, was getting
a hold of the correct paper.
1332
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:42,360
So they got home
1333
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,440
and Laura started working
with various bleaches
1334
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:46,840
and things like that,
1335
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,360
and she figured out
how to bleach out a $1 bill
1336
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,160
without destroying it.
1337
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,680
At the same time,
Xerox came out
1338
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,680
with a new color copier
that was so precise
1339
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,640
it could do the very
fine lines in money.
1340
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,120
So they started
bleaching out those ones
1341
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:06,720
and printing the hundreds.
1342
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,960
And they figured out how to pass
them without getting caught.
1343
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,920
They would go to Atlantic City
and buy chips.
1344
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:18,640
He was relatively adept
at gambling, so at one time,
1345
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,360
he could make money playing
poker and that sort of thing.
1346
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:26,480
By 1881, he wasn't
so good at it anymore.
1347
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,240
It was the influence
of the White Lady that...
1348
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,760
Well, that got him involved
in doing all this crazy shit
1349
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:33,480
in the first place,
1350
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,960
and then also
threw off his skill.
1351
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:38,800
So anyway, here he was,
1352
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,520
printing away money,
printing away money.
1353
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:42,040
He made two mistakes.
1354
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:46,440
First mistake was, he paid the
electric bill with bad money.
1355
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:52,000
Around 1980, a vice president
from Con Ed came to Max's
1356
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,960
and said, "So Tommy,
we'll take your check,
1357
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,400
but we won't take
your cash anymore."
1358
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,880
If I was in Tommy's shoes
at that time,
1359
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:02,440
that would tell me it's time
to get out of the business,
1360
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:07,120
to stop, because if
the Con Ed people can catch me,
1361
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:11,200
how far behind can
the Treasury Department be?
1362
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:18,880
[rock music playing]
1363
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,680
The rise of what we now know
as New York hardcore
1364
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,520
starts with the Bad Brains'
first shows in New York.
1365
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:34,440
And the Bad Brains
had played Max's
1366
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,680
when they hadn't quite yet
made the break yet,
1367
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:40,640
when they were still
kind of a punk band.
1368
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,560
[Dr. Know] That shit
was punk rock.
1369
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,160
[laughs]
1370
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,120
We had something to do with that
1371
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:50,360
because it was the message
1372
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,760
and the music,
1373
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:57,120
and then the speed.
1374
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:00,280
We saw that a lot of people
believed in us
1375
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,120
and supported us,
1376
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,360
and kept on coming,
and coming, and coming.
1377
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:09,840
And eventually,
the kids would sell out.
1378
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:11,240
[Jesse Malin] Max's,
at that point,
1379
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,040
became the foundation
1380
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,160
for the early,
early versions of hardcore,
1381
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,200
along with CBGB's, which
was having hardcore matinees.
1382
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,520
But Peter was booking them
at nighttime.
1383
01:08:22,559 --> 01:08:25,520
[Jimi LaLumia] Glenn Danzig
gives full hosannas
1384
01:08:25,559 --> 01:08:26,840
to Max's and to Crowley
1385
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:32,680
for allowing the misfits
to cut their teeth at Max's.
1386
01:08:32,719 --> 01:08:34,080
[Steven Bush]
So in some ways,
1387
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:35,920
you could say that
the whole hardcore,
1388
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:39,840
New York hardcore scene,
really starts at Max's.
1389
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:41,319
And it's very true.
1390
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,920
The final days of Max's was
the earliest days of hardcore.
1391
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:47,200
And the hardcore scene
was beginning in New York,
1392
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,319
and my band, Heart Attack,
put out a record, God is dead.
1393
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,040
And I was going
to junior high school,
1394
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,680
but all my friends in
the Boroughs were making bands.
1395
01:08:54,719 --> 01:08:57,200
Before CBGB's would do
the hardcore matinees,
1396
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:58,800
Max's was accepting it.
1397
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:00,880
[hardcore music playing]
1398
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:04,479
[applause]
1399
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,280
[rock music playing]
1400
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:19,880
[Billy Idol] When I actually
came to live in New York,
1401
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,880
in March of '81,
I did hang out at Max's.
1402
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,520
After a few months
of living there,
1403
01:09:26,559 --> 01:09:28,000
I gradually met
Steve Stevens,
1404
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:29,800
and we started to put
a band together.
1405
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:31,319
We had a drummer,
Steve Missal.
1406
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,639
When he said,
"Tonight I'm playing,
1407
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:35,960
"it's the closing night
of Max's.
1408
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,719
Max's is closing, I'm in one
of the bands they're playing,"
1409
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:44,200
I said, "Can we jump up and
play before or after you play,
1410
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:45,719
or something, or before you?"
1411
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,800
And he said, "We could get up
and play a couple of tunes."
1412
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:52,160
[Billy Idol] And we played
Dancing With Myself.
1413
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,240
We played about
four or five songs.
1414
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,440
And I could see
the minute that we got on
1415
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:01,840
people going,
"Fuck, it's Billy Idol."
1416
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,160
There I was on the stage,
1417
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:07,480
where people like Alan Vega
and Martin Rev of Suicide
1418
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:08,800
had been on that stage.
1419
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:10,800
A lot of my heroes,
the music I loved
1420
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,880
that came out of New York
had been on that stage.
1421
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,880
It was my way of saying "thanks"
by getting up there
1422
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:17,639
and doing this jump up,
and sort of, in a way,
1423
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:19,920
cementing myself a little bit
1424
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,920
in with the Max's history,
in a way.
1425
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,480
So I knew, man,
this is the last night.
1426
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:27,719
And it did,
it shut the next day.
1427
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:31,160
That was, I believe,
the last show of the--
1428
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:34,920
before Max's closed,
and it was our first show.
1429
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,080
You'd go from CB's to Max's,
1430
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,080
it didn't really matter
who was playing.
1431
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:41,920
You just went anyway,
1432
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,400
especially if they
let you in for free.
1433
01:10:44,440 --> 01:10:49,360
And Peter Crowley was nice
enough to let me in for free.
1434
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:51,880
Because Birdland
played there a lot,
1435
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,200
and the Rattlers
played there a lot.
1436
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,200
The Rattlers was actually
the very last band
1437
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,559
to play on the stage at Max's.
1438
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,440
And I think that's
a huge honor,
1439
01:11:01,480 --> 01:11:04,480
because Max's does not get
enough acknowledgment
1440
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:08,080
for all the bands
that broke out of there.
1441
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,520
[Donna Destri]
My friend Dorothy, one night,
1442
01:11:14,559 --> 01:11:18,200
fell asleep upstairs
under a booth.
1443
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:20,240
OK, she was really wasted,
1444
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:23,360
and she fell asleep,
and she came walking down,
1445
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,840
early in the morning, while they
were still counting the money.
1446
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,440
And I was asleep in the car,
waiting for Michael,
1447
01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:32,600
and she said--
she walked down the steps
1448
01:11:32,639 --> 01:11:35,280
and all of a sudden,
all the guns went up.
1449
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:40,120
So, yeah, they were doing
something shady, come on.
1450
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:41,920
[laughs]
1451
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:43,840
[Peter Crowley] Second mistake,
1452
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,719
which brought down
the whole house of cards:
1453
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:50,920
Laura went to the gift shop
in Atlantic City,
1454
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:54,639
bought a purse,
and paid with a bad 100.
1455
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:58,280
And they remembered
who passed that bad 100,
1456
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:00,120
and she got arrested,
1457
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,000
and they were going
to prosecute her.
1458
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:05,520
Tommy went to the
prosecuting attorney and said,
1459
01:12:05,559 --> 01:12:09,280
"If you let her go
with no charges,
1460
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:12,880
I'll plead guilty to whatever
you want me to plead guilty to."
1461
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:17,280
So he went away to the country
club prison for four years
1462
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:18,639
in the 80s,
1463
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:22,480
and the sad part is while
he was in there, Laura died.
1464
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,960
In '81, the final blow to Max's
1465
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:30,160
was he needed money
1466
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:34,520
to pay back the guys
in Atlantic City.
1467
01:12:34,559 --> 01:12:36,680
And you have to pay them.
1468
01:12:36,719 --> 01:12:39,360
And the only way he could
get that kind of money,
1469
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:42,559
in legitimate money,
was to sell the building.
1470
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:45,600
I had made him
so much money in the 70s
1471
01:12:45,639 --> 01:12:48,480
that he was able to buy
the Max's building.
1472
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,040
And he owned it outright,
no mortgage or anything.
1473
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:54,080
The woman who owned
the office building next door
1474
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:58,000
wanted desperately
to have Max's gone
1475
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:00,200
because of
the broken glass, vomit,
1476
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,760
and whatever that was there
every morning.
1477
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:04,480
And so Tommy went
to her and said,
1478
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,240
"If you give me
a million dollars,
1479
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,880
I'll give you the business
and the building."
1480
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,280
And she said, "OK."
1481
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:15,960
He peeled off a million,
he went and paid off
1482
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:19,360
the boys in Atlantic City.
1483
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,760
And that was the end
of Max's Kansas City
1484
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,280
and put me in the street.
1485
01:13:28,639 --> 01:13:31,320
[rock music playing]
1486
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:35,000
[Jimi LaLumia] Max's does not
get the due that it's deserved.
1487
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:38,600
Max's closed
at the dawn of the 80s.
1488
01:13:38,639 --> 01:13:40,639
CBGB'S remained open.
1489
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,840
Hilly stayed in business
for another 20 years
1490
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:49,160
and was able to stay
in the public eye,
1491
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:52,320
whereas Max's died
in the end of '81.
1492
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:57,120
By default, CBGB's
became the punk place
1493
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:58,960
for the MTV generation.
1494
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,639
Max's unfortunately
was cut out of that equation.
1495
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:04,080
[Denise Mercedes]
Max's was very unique
1496
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,600
because it allowed
the diversity of acts,
1497
01:14:07,639 --> 01:14:09,840
of humans, to come together,
1498
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,280
no matter what you
were trying to do.
1499
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:17,320
We had the platform and the
ability to experiment on stage,
1500
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:20,719
bring our best,
see what happened.
1501
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:25,160
And we were all there:
gay, straight, Asian, Black,
1502
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:27,680
Hispanic, White...
Who wasn't there?
1503
01:14:27,719 --> 01:14:29,840
We were all there,
1504
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:31,760
kicking ass
on that fucking stage.
1505
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,680
[Sonny Vincent] We had
some managers back then
1506
01:14:33,719 --> 01:14:35,880
and they said, "Oh, Sonny, drink
this before you go on stage,
1507
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:37,200
it'll cut the edge."
1508
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:38,960
Well, after a while,
I was really cutting the edge.
1509
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,880
And I told Gene, "Oh, we're not
going to play the first song.
1510
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:43,200
Let's start with
the second song."
1511
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:44,360
And I told the drummer, Gregory,
1512
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:46,200
"We're not going
to play the first song,
1513
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:47,680
let's start with
the third song."
1514
01:14:47,719 --> 01:14:49,400
And then I started
with the eighth song,
1515
01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:51,639
and there was this din of noise,
and the audience loved it,
1516
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,360
and I was going,
"Wow, this is so great.
1517
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:54,960
I can do what I want."
1518
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:56,200
[Harley Flanagan]
I'll tell you man,
1519
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:57,880
Max's was a really crazy place.
1520
01:14:57,920 --> 01:14:59,840
You can only imagine
what it was like for me.
1521
01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:03,760
I was 12, and you got people
like Johnny Thunders
1522
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,320
stumbling down the steps
from the dressing room
1523
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:09,200
with, like, a syringe
hanging out of his arm,
1524
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:12,160
and talking about,
"Are we on yet?"
1525
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:13,680
I mean, total debauchery.
1526
01:15:13,719 --> 01:15:14,960
[Nick Marden]
Crazy people there,
1527
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,280
crazier people,
or flashier people,
1528
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:21,080
or on other nights,
it was just the regular people.
1529
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:25,080
Which, for the Max's crew,
that could be anybody.
1530
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:26,520
[Phil Caivano]
I think in a lot of ways,
1531
01:15:26,559 --> 01:15:29,400
Max's was more important
than CBGB's,
1532
01:15:29,440 --> 01:15:32,719
because of the lineage
of the history of it.
1533
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,639
It was all, like,
this line that went back
1534
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:37,200
to the Velvet Underground,
1535
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:40,639
and that was the club that
I had in my brain,
1536
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:43,880
from the magazines,
from the stories,
1537
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:47,240
from records, from songs,
1538
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,760
from print.
1539
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,320
That's why it was
so important to me,
1540
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:53,800
and that's why
I loved it so much.
1541
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:55,639
[Alice Cooper]
Back at Max's Kansas City,
1542
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:58,040
there were a million ideas
launched back there,
1543
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,240
in that back, because
there was so much creativity
1544
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:02,480
in that room back there.
1545
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:04,280
Remember this,
1546
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,800
if you forget everything else.
1547
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:11,320
They were all stoned,
all the time.
1548
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:14,480
And this is the Clash
and the Sex Pistols,
1549
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:19,600
and Sid, and Malcolm,
and me, and Susie.
1550
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:21,880
Everyone.
1551
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:25,360
David Bowie, Gene Pitney,
to Mick Jagger--
1552
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,880
Mick Jagger, the Rolling Stones.
1553
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,400
Wherever they were,
they were all high
1554
01:16:30,440 --> 01:16:32,360
all the time.
1555
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:33,639
Everyone was high.
1556
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:35,840
No one was straight ever.
1557
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,240
[rock music playing]
1558
01:16:47,639 --> 01:16:50,120
[Elliott Murphy]
So Max's was really, for me...
1559
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:52,360
You know, there's the whole
art side of Max's too,
1560
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,480
and the Andy Warhol side,
1561
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,160
but from the music side,
1562
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:58,520
Max's played
a very important part
1563
01:16:58,559 --> 01:17:00,880
in the Golden Age of music.
1564
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:05,120
And I'm very grateful
to both Mickey Ruskin
1565
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:07,920
and Tommy Dean for all the...
1566
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:12,520
for how much attention
they paid to that, you know.
1567
01:17:12,559 --> 01:17:15,639
[Alice Cooper] I was having
the most fun I've ever had
1568
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:19,280
and being-- it was part
of the Alice Cooper thing.
1569
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:20,800
It helped me create.
1570
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:24,160
Max's Kansas City helped me
create a lot of things.
1571
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:27,400
[Jayne County]
The legacy of Max's lives on.
1572
01:17:27,440 --> 01:17:31,680
In one way or another,
Max's legacy lives on.
1573
01:17:31,719 --> 01:17:33,680
It'll never die, really,
1574
01:17:33,719 --> 01:17:35,880
because Max's, it's like--
1575
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:41,400
it's like Paris was in the 20s,
or Berlin was in the 30s,
1576
01:17:41,440 --> 01:17:43,480
or England was in the 60s.
1577
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:47,360
Max's in the 70s was,
like, famous.
1578
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:50,280
It's going to be
always remembered.
1579
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:54,639
It's going to be written about
and filmed about always.
1580
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:56,440
[Harley Flanagan] I'm up
on stage playing, and I'm like,
1581
01:17:56,480 --> 01:18:00,719
"Give me a Coke! Get me a Coke,"
meaning a Coca-Cola,
1582
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:05,200
and half the crowd thought I was
yelling "Coke" like cocaine.
1583
01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:07,080
I mean, this is
the fucking mentality
1584
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,800
of how depraved this shit was.
1585
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:11,800
[Jesse Malin]
The thing about Max's II for us
1586
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:14,280
was kids could play there,
or even go to shows there.
1587
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:16,240
You felt like you were
really part of history.
1588
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:18,559
You'd seen it in the magazines,
you knew the iconic ad
1589
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:20,280
that was in the paper,
that strip ad.
1590
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:22,440
To see your name in it,
in the Village Voice,
1591
01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:23,840
it really meant something.
1592
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:25,920
It felt like you were
part of something.
1593
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,760
[Ruby Lynn Reyner]
I, like-- Mr. T used to say,
1594
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:32,840
"I pity the poor fools that
don't have Max's Kansas City."
1595
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:37,280
Because Max's Kansas City was
a once in a lifetime experience.
1596
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,719
[Steven Bush] You're asking why
all these really cool shows
1597
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:43,120
of soon-to-be stars
were happening there,
1598
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:46,719
and there's your answer:
it really was the place to be.
1599
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,200
[Nick Marden]
There would be an energy there.
1600
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:51,440
And some nights
it would be a bummer energy,
1601
01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:53,960
it'd be like real
heavy junky energy.
1602
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:57,120
Other nights it would be
this weird aggro energy.
1603
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:58,840
Other nights, it would be
a mellow thing.
1604
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,680
But there was always
something percolating there,
1605
01:19:01,719 --> 01:19:03,880
as opposed to other places,
where you'd just sit down
1606
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:05,800
and drink and leave.
1607
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:07,880
[Harley Flanagan]
A lot of good times, though.
1608
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:10,559
I saw some great
fucking bands at Max's.
1609
01:19:11,440 --> 01:19:14,320
And it was really cool to...
1610
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:18,960
I should say, it isreally cool
to have played there.
1611
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,480
It was a great piece
in New York history.
1612
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:26,040
[Denise Mercedes] Without
Peter Crowley, without Max's,
1613
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:28,600
I can't imagine what
the New York music scene,
1614
01:19:28,639 --> 01:19:31,240
what the music world
would have lost.
1615
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,600
That was my first gig
in America, really.
1616
01:19:33,639 --> 01:19:36,320
It was at Max's Kansas City
on their last night.
1617
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:39,400
[Alice Cooper]
It's an era gone by.
1618
01:19:39,440 --> 01:19:41,280
It's a place that's gone by.
1619
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:44,960
And it will always be a place
that's almost like...
1620
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,880
Everybody wanted to
at least be there once.
1621
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:51,040
You know, they go,
1622
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:52,840
"That must have been
spectacular!"
1623
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:54,320
And I go, "It was."
1624
01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:00,280
["Leave My Pussy Alone" by Jayne
County and Jimi LaLumia plays]
1625
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,559
♪ In the name of science
There's nothing you won't do ♪
1626
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,920
♪ You think you have the right
But it's wrong ♪
1627
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:10,559
♪ You know that's true
1628
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:13,280
♪ Killing, scarring, torturing
The ones that can't fight back ♪
1629
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,120
♪ We'll do their fighting
For them ♪
1630
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:16,800
♪ You'll get a big payback
1631
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:20,240
♪ Keep your hands off my pussy
Don't you mess with my pussy ♪
1632
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,840
♪ Just leave my pussy alone
1633
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,320
♪ Not tonight with my pussy
1634
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:29,559
♪ It ain't right with my pussy
Just leave my pussy alone ♪
1635
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:35,680
♪ Yeah
Leave my pussy alone ♪
1636
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:40,600
♪ In the name of profit
You're monsters on the loose ♪
1637
01:20:40,639 --> 01:20:42,760
♪ You've crossed the line
Too many times ♪
1638
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:44,360
♪ Your neck is in the noose
1639
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,320
♪ You slash their throats
You stab their eyes ♪
1640
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:47,920
♪ You lead them to their doom
1641
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:50,840
♪ Just so that some old bitch
Gets to test a new perfume ♪
1642
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:52,920
♪ So keep your hands
Off my pussy ♪
1643
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:57,400
♪ Don't you mess with my pussy
Just leave my pussy alone ♪
1644
01:20:57,440 --> 01:20:59,800
♪ Don't you stare at my pussy
1645
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:03,680
♪ Don't you dare with my pussy
Just leave my pussy alone ♪
1646
01:21:03,719 --> 01:21:08,360
[instrumental]
1647
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:14,960
♪ In the name of justice
We're knocking down your door ♪
1648
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,080
♪ We'll chain ourselves
We'll paint ourselves ♪
1649
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:18,559
♪ We'll nail you to the floor
1650
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:20,280
♪ We'll spray paint
All your furs ♪
1651
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,120
♪ We'll boycott
All your stores ♪
1652
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:25,080
♪ Until you get the message
We won't take this anymore ♪
1653
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:27,120
♪ So keep your hands
off my pussy ♪
1654
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:31,360
♪ Don't you mess with my pussy
Just leave my pussy alone ♪
1655
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:33,719
♪ Not tonight with my pussy
1656
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:38,280
♪ It ain't right with my pussy
Just leave my pussy alone ♪
1657
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:40,719
♪ So keep your hands
Off my pussy ♪
1658
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:45,240
♪ Don't you mess with my pussy
Just leave my pussy alone ♪
1659
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:47,600
♪ Don't you stare at my pussy
1660
01:21:47,639 --> 01:21:52,160
♪ Don't you dare with my pussy
Just leave my pussy alone ♪
1661
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:57,480
♪ Yeah, pick on somebody
Your own species ♪
1662
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:10,360
["Max's Kansas City"
by The Electric Chairs plays]
1663
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:29,760
♪ Take a tip from me
1664
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,800
♪ And get ready
For the big parade ♪
1665
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:37,160
♪ It's the place to be
1666
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:40,320
♪ Every night's
A happy holiday ♪
1667
01:22:42,440 --> 01:22:47,160
♪ The kids are jumping around
Everybody's doing loop de loop ♪
1668
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:51,840
♪ Just a making the rounds
1669
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:55,360
♪ Like a speed freak
In a telephone booth ♪
1670
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:59,240
♪ The downstairs is packed
1671
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:02,240
♪ And the groupies
Are all dressed up ♪
1672
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:07,160
♪ Upstairs the New York Dolls
1673
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:11,200
♪ Are kickin' it out
Looking tough ♪
1674
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:14,520
♪ You've got a
Personality crisis, baby ♪
1675
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:18,559
♪ Down at Max's
1676
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,600
♪ Max's Kansas City
1677
01:23:20,639 --> 01:23:24,040
-♪ All the boys are
-♪ At Max's Kansas City
1678
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:27,760
-♪ All the girls are
-♪ At Max's Kansas City
1679
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:30,960
-♪ All the kids are
-♪ At Max's Kansas City
1680
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:33,600
♪ Down at Max's
1681
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:38,280
♪ I see Patti Smith
1682
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:41,840
♪ She's the Stagger Lee
Of rock 'n' roll ♪
1683
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:45,920
♪ She threw a seven and eleven
1684
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:49,320
♪ And she always knows
Which parts to hold ♪
1685
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,719
♪ And I see Lou Reed
And Iggy Pop ♪
1686
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:57,400
♪ There just to get
Higher and higher ♪
1687
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:00,480
♪ Go get them boys
One more drink ♪
1688
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:03,880
♪ And they're going to set
The place on fire ♪
1689
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:05,559
♪ Go get 'em boys
1690
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,840
♪ The downstairs is packed
1691
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:10,880
♪ And the groupies
Are all dressed up ♪
1692
01:24:12,719 --> 01:24:15,400
♪ Upstairs the New York Dolls
1693
01:24:15,440 --> 01:24:19,360
♪ Are kickin' it out
Looking tough ♪
1694
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:24,040
♪ Bad girls just a lookin'
For a kiss ♪
1695
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:29,120
-♪ Down at Max's
-♪ Max's Kansas City
1696
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:33,040
-♪ All the boys are
-♪ At Max's Kansas City
126785
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