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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,240 But perhaps we'd better begin at the best place for stories: 2 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,320 at the beginning. 3 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,520 'Five!' 4 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,240 He was responsible for aliens attacking the world. 5 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,560 'Four!' 6 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,640 He blew the moon out of the Earth's orbit. 7 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,320 'Three!' 8 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,760 And he turned a bunch of puppets into superstars. 9 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,360 'Two!' 10 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:52,640 He was a wonderful chap. 11 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,400 One of the most honest chaps I've ever met in my whole life. 12 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:56,560 'One!' 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,960 He's a very evil... a very evil man. 14 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,440 Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Gerry Anderson. 15 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,480 APPLAUSE 16 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:42,040 One has to bear in mind 17 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,560 that I was always intensely interested in space travel. 18 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,960 I mean, I've always... 19 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,240 ..looked at the starry sky and just wondered, 20 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,200 what is out there? 21 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,920 I remember, in fact, my brother, 22 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,720 who was a Mosquito pilot during the war, 23 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,040 and I couldn't have been very old, but he came back on leave once, 24 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:14,560 and I remember very specifically that he said to me once, 25 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,280 "Assuming it were possible to fly in a straight line 26 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,600 "across the universe, 27 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,120 "you must eventually come to the end of the universe. 28 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,920 "Or the edge of the universe. 29 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:30,480 "And if so, what is beyond?" 30 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,480 Well, of course, that kind of mind-boggling question 31 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,240 really set me thinking, 32 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,480 and it's kept me going until today. 33 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,720 My father, Gerry Anderson, 34 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,320 produced 18 series and four feature films, 35 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,560 owned six Rolls-Royce motor cars, 36 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,280 had four children, across three marriages, 37 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,960 and made and lost his fortune twice over. 38 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,600 But beyond these headlines, 39 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,840 I actually know very little about the man that I call Dad. 40 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,760 What inspired him? 41 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,280 Why was he never satisfied with his work? 42 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,760 Why were his relationships so fractious? 43 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,840 I've been loaned my very own FAB 1 to make a journey of discovery, 44 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,120 visiting some of the key locations 45 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,920 and speaking to some of his closest family, friends, and colleagues, 46 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:16,960 with the hope that I will finally be able to understand what made the man 47 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,000 who, for many, made their childhoods. 48 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,800 OK, Venus? OK, Steve. 49 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,920 Right, let's go. 50 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,200 Very few people know anything about my background. 51 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,160 I don't once remember him telling me about a happy childhood experience. 52 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,880 I was in a house, an old house, living right at the top, 53 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,680 in one room, with my family. 54 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,920 He spent a lot of time drumming into me 55 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,840 how poor his family were when they grew up. 56 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,680 Down below, we had a woman, a very old lady, 57 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,080 who used to bang on the ceiling with her stick. 58 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,880 It was Neasden, it was bleak. 59 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,960 Opposite, we had a man - I can't remember his name now - 60 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,800 but he was just fresh out of jail. 61 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,200 And on the bottom floor, we had a mad artist 62 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,160 and a prostitute. 63 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:14,920 I think that Dad's climb from the poverty of childhood 64 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,000 was the most important endeavour in his life. 65 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,760 It's only right that a bloke should have ambition. 66 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:27,240 But that constant drive for success was probably quite damaging for him, 67 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,200 because in his mind, he never reached it. 68 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,720 I always feel that I have failed. 69 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,960 You know that failure cannot be tolerated. 70 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,560 I think Dad's drive to succeed 71 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,000 was probably due to the way he was brought up by his parents. 72 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,520 And, I suppose, the way that they were raised, too. 73 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,040 First of all, dealing with my grandparents on my father's side, 74 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,880 they were Jewish. 75 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,120 They came as immigrants to this country. 76 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,760 And when they arrived here, 77 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,840 the immigration people said to my grandfather, "Name?" 78 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:03,160 And he said, "Bieloglovski." 79 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:04,840 And the immigration officer said, 80 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:07,440 "I can't possibly spell that. Your name's Abrahams." 81 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,120 And so that was his name. 82 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,000 Now, on my mother's side, 83 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,120 my grandmother lived in Hackney, 84 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,640 and the family, that's on her side, 85 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,160 all grew up to be very, very Christian. 86 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,880 Now, when I say Christian, I don't mean they went to church, 87 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,320 but I mean very English. 88 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,400 It was... 89 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,240 a tough place to be, as a child, 90 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,200 between two parents locked in battle. 91 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,240 They had a lot of arguments, and it wasn't a happy marriage. 92 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,680 They should never have been married in the first place, 93 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:42,960 but there we are, they were. 94 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,880 I loved Grandpa Joe, he was a lovely man. 95 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,160 But he wasn't for Grandma Debbie. And she... 96 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,520 She was very unhappy her whole life. 97 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:59,760 My mother was kind of always saying how she hated him, 98 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,480 hated the marriage. 99 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,520 But the mixture was explosive. 100 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,960 Sometimes my father, there would be a row going on, 101 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,600 and she would say, "I'm going to bed", 102 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,280 and he would say, "No, you're not", and he would lock the door. 103 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:12,680 And I'd have to sit in a locked room for maybe three hours 104 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,880 while these two were going hammer and tongs at each other. 105 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,160 And consequently, I had just about 106 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,480 the most miserable childhood it's possible to imagine. 107 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,600 I think it's inevitable that Gerry's upbringing, 108 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,440 and the struggles he had, would feed into his work. 109 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,080 Because, you know, that's what all good creatives do. 110 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,840 They take what they know and put it into their work. 111 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:36,840 Do you remember how it all started? 112 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:39,840 I guess none of us will ever forget that day. 113 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:42,480 I was brought up, really, 114 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,000 by a mother who didn't want to be Jewish, 115 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,800 didn't want to have anything to do with the Jewish religion, 116 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,120 and by my father, who was Jewish, 117 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,040 and did want to have a lot to do with religion. 118 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,320 I think her... 119 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,400 ..her non-Jewish beliefs actually extend far beyond that. 120 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,320 Gerry's mother was unbelievably anti-Semitic. 121 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,800 One day, this was just before the war, 122 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,680 a laundry boy came to collect the laundry, 123 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,840 which was in a sheet tied up with a list on it, 124 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,920 and he took the laundry, very cheerfully, "Thank you very much", 125 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,040 and she walked back, 126 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,440 perhaps to get the money for the last week's laundry, I don't know, 127 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,480 and he said, "Hold on a minute." 128 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,560 He had seen the name Abrahams. 129 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,920 And as she was returning, he shouted out, 130 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,120 "We don't take laundry from Jews." 131 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,840 And he threw the laundry, which hit her fair and square, 132 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:36,960 and slammed the door. 133 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,600 He was teased... for having a Jewish surname. 134 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,800 I also remember at Neasden, going to school, 135 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,880 and kids dancing in a circle around me, saying "Jew boy". 136 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,360 So I think he very quickly developed feelings, as a kid, 137 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,200 that religion was a thing that only brought negativity. 138 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,640 I don't really think you'll find much, if any religion 139 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,280 in any of the shows because of that. 140 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,720 So, with the aid of my mother, I totally rebelled. 141 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,520 So she, after a considerable argument, 142 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,480 forced my father to change the family name by deed poll. 143 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,720 I remember her saying, "I always liked the name Anderson." 144 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,760 I know that name. 145 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,200 From everything I can tell, from what he said, 146 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,480 as a child, he was very close to his mum, 147 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,360 and actually, with hindsight, 148 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,280 he can see that she was quite a manipulator. 149 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,440 And she never had a kind word to say for anybody. 150 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:40,680 I grew up, rightly or wrongly, very, very much on my mother's side. 151 00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:45,200 So my father was the enemy, and I was an ally to my mother. 152 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,800 Therefore, I inherited all her ways, and I hated his ways. 153 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,760 He became a mummy's boy not because Debbie was a wonderful mother, 154 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,520 but because she set the stage 155 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:05,080 for Joe being a useless, ugly, lazy, slovenly man. 156 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,520 My mother used to humiliate him. 157 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,560 And, er... 158 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:13,640 When I was a kid, she used to say to me, jokingly, 159 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:14,840 "Come on, you ugly devil, 160 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,200 "you look more like your dad every day of the week." 161 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,160 It used to break my heart, you know. 162 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,560 Because I was brought up to think that my father was ugly. 163 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:24,800 So when she would say that to me, I used to get very upset about it. 164 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,320 Gerry's relationship with his father, 165 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,160 I think only began to heal 166 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,880 only a short time before Joe's death. 167 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,320 But it was almost too late, because he was taken ill, 168 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,440 he went into hospital, 169 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:47,400 and I believe up until the day he had his final heart attack, 170 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,160 he was still waiting on Debbie hand and foot. 171 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,040 When I arrived, 172 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,480 my mother was actually talking to a neighbour 173 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,080 about the pain she'd been having in her stomach, 174 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,400 and how she felt sick, and all the rest of it. 175 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,400 And my father came in with a tray of tea. 176 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:06,800 Tea, m'lady? 177 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,800 Tea on the lawn. 178 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,000 And he had just had a heart attack. 179 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,680 And an ambulance arrived, and he was taken to hospital. 180 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:20,520 And it was just about when Thunderbirds was due to premiere. 181 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,000 And he was in hospital, I think in Maidenhead, 182 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,480 and Gerry was so proud, 183 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,800 cos he managed to get a television set into the ward. 184 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,520 And he was semiconscious when they wheeled over a television set 185 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,120 for one of the first showings of Thunderbirds. 186 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,320 We're not really sure if he could hear it, or see it properly, 187 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,960 but we've got notes that suggest how proud Joe was 188 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,160 of what his son had achieved. 189 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,920 It was very important to Gerry 190 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,880 that Joe had seen him hit the heights, as it were. 191 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,960 Get some rest now, Dad. I'll see you tomorrow. 192 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,880 When he died, he said something to me which was incomprehensible, 193 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,920 and I said, "I can't understand." 194 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,800 And he said it again, and I said, "I can't understand." 195 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,640 And he said, "Can I have a pencil?" 196 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,240 And he... 197 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:12,800 He wrote... 198 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,480 "It all happened 199 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,480 "because..." 200 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,520 And he lapsed into unconsciousness. 201 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,400 And I, to this day, never know what it was he was going to write. 202 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,200 He must have had a terrible life. 203 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,920 Yeah, course, if I could live my time over again, 204 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,840 I would have been much closer to my father than I was. 205 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,360 Why did I wait so long? 206 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,160 Oh, John, you didn't know. 207 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,920 I just feel very sad now at the way I treated him. 208 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,400 And in fact, that's a very interesting point. 209 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,560 You will see few, if any, "mother" figures 210 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:59,000 in any of the work that Gerry did. 211 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,800 Right, Father. OK, Father. 212 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,520 Sure thing, Dad. Yeah, Father. 213 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:03,680 What's happened, Father? 214 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,960 My father is an honourable man. 215 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,080 When my mother died, I had to try to be a mother and a father to him. 216 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,440 It's not as if you had a mother to look after you, 217 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,080 so don't let me down. 218 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,160 I think the only happiness he found in his childhood 219 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,120 was with his brother. 220 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,920 This older brother was the only thing he looked up to, 221 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,440 was the only thing that almost made life worth living, I suppose. 222 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,920 Lionel Anderson was Gerry's older brother, 223 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,400 older by, I think, seven years. 224 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:39,760 Good-looking guy. 225 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,360 Gerry absolutely idolised him. 226 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,680 I think Lionel was almost godlike to him. 227 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:50,360 When the war broke out, I was 11, and he was joining up, 228 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,280 so I guess he was probably 18. 229 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,320 It wasn't really until the war that I used to see very much of him. 230 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,720 I just have very strong recollections 231 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,200 from the things he did. 232 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,280 I mean, during the Blitz, he was Light Rescue, and so he was a hero. 233 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,000 Lionel was a classic boy growing up in the '30s, 234 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,480 late '30s, early '40s. 235 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,560 Loved everything to do with aeroplanes, 236 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:15,040 loved everything to do with speed, transport. 237 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,440 The opportunity to join the Royal Air Force 238 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,520 would have been something that was massively exciting to him. 239 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,200 Debbie doted on Lionel, 240 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,920 clearly was much fonder of him than she was of Gerry. 241 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,800 You almost feel like Gerry was an afterthought. 242 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,080 So all of her focus and love, you feel, 243 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,720 is directed towards one person. 244 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,640 Gerry mentioned his brother numerous times. 245 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,040 He was very proud of his brother 246 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,000 and his contribution to the Second World War. 247 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,480 What happened was he was sent to Arizona for his training. 248 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,280 Cos you couldn't train over England, 249 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,160 you'd be shot down by German aircraft. 250 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,400 So he was sent to Arizona, to an airfield called Falcon Field. 251 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,200 He was an inveterate letter writer. 252 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,880 I'm sure Debbie read and re-read and re-read them, 253 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,400 and read them out loud to Gerry. 254 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,440 And judging from his letters, 255 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,800 he seems to have maintained 256 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,920 a much more healthy relationship with my parents than I did. 257 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,600 Nothing I can see in the letters 258 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,680 that suggests a close relationship with his father. 259 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,400 His mother, on the other hand, is a totally different relationship. 260 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,600 A very intense relationship. 261 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,720 It probably wasn't a healthy relationship. 262 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,360 I think as a role model, 263 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,960 Lionel would have been something 264 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,920 that was almost impossible for Gerry to live up to. 265 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,600 I mean, if you've got a brother who's flying an aircraft 266 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,640 over Nazi-occupied Europe every night, 267 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,880 obviously one naturally thought of him as a hero. 268 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,200 Let's face it, he was a hero. Like all of them. 269 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,240 He's quite a guy. Yeah. 270 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:50,360 And that is a thing 271 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,520 which I would hear him repeat over and over and over. 272 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,080 And he painted quite the picture of this hero pilot. 273 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,240 It felt very much 274 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,000 like he was the most positive influence in Dad's life. 275 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,560 I think it was from Lionel that he got the idea for Thunderbirds, 276 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,080 or certainly the name for Thunderbirds. 277 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,560 Obviously Lionel's having an opportunity to do things 278 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:17,200 that Gerry could only dream about, and yet his brother is achieving. 279 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,000 I mean, Hollywood came to Lionel. 280 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,200 He was at Falcon Field 281 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,080 when an American film crew, producer, turned up 282 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,640 to shoot a film, 283 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,000 and it involved some of the big actors at the time. 284 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,880 He danced with Gene Tierney when they had a party there. 285 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,960 And there was another Hollywood star called Preston Foster 286 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,040 that he wrote about. 287 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,000 All of the cadets are actually brought into the film 288 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,840 to parade, to march past, to be in group scenes, what have you, 289 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,600 and they can clearly see that they're actually in this film. 290 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,080 And the name of that film will be very familiar to everyone, 291 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,320 because the film was called Thunder Birds. 292 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,760 Cor, so that explains it! 293 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:07,360 It must have been a huge blow to him when Lionel, you know, 294 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,000 died. 295 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,760 After his squadron converted to flying the Mosquito, 296 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,560 they also changed roles, 297 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,840 and his role now was as an Intruder pilot. 298 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:23,280 And what that meant was that they flew ahead of the bomber stream 299 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,080 to shoot up German night fighter stations. 300 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:28,840 Every morning when the postman came, 301 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,160 it was just the dread of receiving the telegram. Which finally came. 302 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,680 And it was while on one of those Intruder sorties 303 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,160 that, sadly, Lionel was shot down. 304 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,080 "The Air Ministry regret to report 305 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,880 "that your son, Lionel David Anderson, 306 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,560 "failed to return from an operation over enemy territory 307 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,920 "and has been posted as missing." 308 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,880 It would have been absolutely catastrophic. 309 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,920 Because although there would have been an element of hope, 310 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,000 the reality is, though, that word "missing" 311 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,200 invariably meant "dead." 312 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,200 He didn't make it. 313 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,920 He just didn't make it. 314 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,920 My mother was a very emotional person, 315 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,960 and, er... 316 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,720 she tended to wear her heart on her sleeve. 317 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,560 I'm aware, anecdotally, 318 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,840 that Debbie is purported to have said... 319 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,240 "It should have been you. 320 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,640 "Why was it Lionel? It should have been you." 321 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,640 And I think if we add that to the fact 322 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,480 that she created nigh on a shrine for Lionel, 323 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,920 with this portrait that used to hang, 324 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,600 and she would show everyone who came around, 325 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,360 I think there's a lot of credibility to that story. 326 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:47,640 You wouldn't forget something that a parent had said to you like that. 327 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,760 Well, my brother - and I'm quite serious when I say this - 328 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,000 he really should have lived, 329 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,960 and I should have been the one that was killed. 330 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,560 And I just feel that, really, he was more suited 331 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,360 to go through this life than I was. 332 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:02,920 And I would happily have swapped places with him. 333 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,320 I think if you look back on the episodes of his shows, 334 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:13,560 you'll find that there are always strong characters who are pilots. 335 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,000 I think the action figures, with Mike Mercury, 336 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,960 with Scott, and with Virgil, to a degree, 337 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,840 I think these are all hero characters 338 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,680 who probably embody certain elements of Lionel in them. 339 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,120 You saved our lives. I'm glad we could help. 340 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:31,640 All I know is somewhere out there, 341 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,440 there's a living creature in distress. 342 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,120 I can't let that call go unanswered. 343 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:37,680 Before his death, Lionel wrote a letter home 344 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,000 in which he joked with Dad 345 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,120 about wanting him to do well in school and make lots of money, 346 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,880 so he could look after Lionel when he returned. 347 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,520 But for various reasons, that wasn't really an option for Dad. 348 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,760 I was never gonna become anything at secondary school. 349 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,280 I'd like to think I had flair, and certainly common sense, 350 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,680 but in terms of academic qualifications, 351 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,040 I was just, you know, like a barrow boy. 352 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,520 He was not a fan of school at all. 353 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,920 I don't think he took his education seriously. 354 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,080 I think his schooling had been pretty poor, 355 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,680 had been pretty broken up, because he was evacuated in the war. 356 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,800 Dragged off with Debbie with, you know, "I'm leaving Joe again" 357 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,240 and all the rest of it. 358 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,880 He had trouble reading and writing, which he later claimed was dyslexia, 359 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,520 although I think it's probably just poor education. 360 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,640 His handwriting was... not great. 361 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,640 But he always tried his best to cover for it. 362 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,680 He didn't want people to know that he was ill-educated, 363 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,320 or, you know, had trouble with reading and writing. 364 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,120 He had wanted to be a fibrous plasterer. 365 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,920 When I say plastering, this was ornamental plastering, 366 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:49,120 not plastering walls. 367 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:52,720 And I really excelled, and I was top of the class. 368 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,640 And so, obviously, I was going to become a plasterer. 369 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,680 And who uses plasterers? 370 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,840 The answer is, film studios. 371 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,400 Oh, films? 372 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,360 Oh, that must be a very exciting life. 373 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:08,400 Very soon after he started this training in plastering, 374 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,720 he was having terrible rashes and skin peeling up his forearms. 375 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,040 And it turned out it gave him dermatitis. 376 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,360 It was really horrible, and the doctor said, 377 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:20,480 "Well, it's obviously the lime and the plaster that's causing this, 378 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,120 "and there's no way that you can become a plasterer." 379 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,400 Well, I had already set my heart on studios, films. 380 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,560 I really knew nothing about it. 381 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,520 And I spent a very, very long time 382 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,920 walking around from studio to studio, 383 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,320 saying to the gate men, "Are there any jobs going?" 384 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,920 And this was obviously the start of everything. 385 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:46,040 My father, through a relative of a relative of a relative, 386 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,680 knew Sidney Bernstein, who was chairman of Granada. 387 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,400 And he managed to get me an interview with the great man. 388 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,360 And I went along, and he said, "What do you want to be?" 389 00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:00,600 And I said, "A cameraman." 390 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,480 And he said, "Well, look, everybody wants to be a cameraman. 391 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,560 "I'm going to put a date in my diary. 392 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,480 "If you come back in six months' time 393 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,160 "and tell me that you still want to become a cameraman, 394 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,960 "I will give you a job on a camera crew." 395 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,120 Dad was never hugely patient. 396 00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:19,480 What I remember very clearly is when he said "six months' time", 397 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,120 he might as well have said "45 years' time". 398 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,800 It seemed such a huge amount of time to wait. 399 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:32,000 So I came out and just dismissed him and the interview from my mind, 400 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,800 and I thought, "If I'm gonna be a cameraman, 401 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,160 "I might as well do something to do with photography." 402 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,240 So I walked into Regent Studios, on Regent Street, 403 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,720 which is a little passport studio, 404 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,240 and I was a developist. 405 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,720 He then managed to get a job 406 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:54,000 with the Ministry of Information's Colonial Film Unit. 407 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,480 And I did, as a trainee, projection, 408 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,040 and camera crew, and editing, and so on. 409 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,120 And so I decided that I would work in the cutting room. 410 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,520 And from there, I heard that there was a vacancy going 411 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,320 in Gainsborough Pictures. 412 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,880 FANFARE 413 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,880 And so that's how I really came to be 414 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,320 a member of the British film business. 415 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,560 In the late 1940s, I think 1947, 416 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,520 he was called up to the RAF. 417 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,000 The joining up of the RAF 418 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,320 was something which he had been dreading, 419 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,920 because he was such a mummy's boy. 420 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,720 When I finished my initial training, 421 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,960 we took a so-called intelligence test, 422 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,320 and I was then interviewed by the education officer, 423 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,160 and he said, 424 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,800 "Well, you have very, very low marks. 425 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,520 "In fact, so low, that we can only offer you 426 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,240 "either general duties in the cookhouse..." 427 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,920 If I cooked like you, I wouldn't shout about it neither. 428 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,840 "..or military police." 429 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,880 Which says something for the military police. 430 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,920 He said, "What did you do on civvy street?" 431 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,800 And I told him I was an assistant film editor, 432 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,680 and I could see he was quite startled by that. 433 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,560 And then he offered me a so-called C-trade, 434 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,440 which allowed me to become a radiotelephone operator, 435 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,600 which I did. 436 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,520 Dad exited the RAF in 1949. 437 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,560 With good grades across the board. 438 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,280 So he must have been proud of that. 439 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:33,920 We were very fortunate, really, 440 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,680 because people who were called up for National Service 441 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,600 had to be reinstated in the job they held when they left. 442 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:47,120 And so when I came out, I was sent to Pinewood Studios. 443 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,800 And he very quickly rose through the ranks, 444 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,240 from sound editor, to assistant film editor, to film editor. 445 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,880 He also met Betty Wrightman, who he soon married. 446 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,520 And they quite quickly had Linda, first daughter, 447 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,480 and then quite soon after that, Joy, second daughter. 448 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,480 After being jettisoned from the RAF, 449 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,520 his personal life and his career seemed to be taking off. 450 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,560 After a couple of years, he found himself working for a company 451 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,320 called Polytechnic Films, where he was appointed director 452 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,360 on a series called You've Never Seen This, 453 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,400 which, ironically, was never seen. 454 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,480 And it was whilst working on that series 455 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,800 that he met his future business partner, Arthur Provis. 456 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,840 And that's how we got together, and we became very friendly. 457 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,400 And so when that ill-fated series came to an end, 458 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,880 we said, "Why don't we start our own production company?" 459 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,280 Which we did. 460 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,280 Hence AP Films, Anderson and Provis. 461 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,080 We got on very, very, well, 462 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,000 and we took with us some friends that we had met. 463 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,640 Reg Hill, brilliant man. 464 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,360 And John Read. 465 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:53,360 We started the company, and we needed a secretary. 466 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,880 And there's a very interesting thing here, 467 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,240 because we advertised for a part-time secretary. 468 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,000 When you were growing up, 469 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,640 what did you want to be when you grew up? 470 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,520 Er... I could say "famous." 471 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,720 So we put an advert in the local paper 472 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,880 for a secretary for two days a week. 473 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,080 I didn't know how to get into the film business at all, 474 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,880 and then one day, I saw an ad, you know, in a newspaper, 475 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,760 a small film company looking for a Girl Friday. 476 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,840 I thought, "Oh, I can do that." 477 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,760 And I received a call, in response to that advert, 478 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,040 from a very jolly lady, 479 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,360 who said, "Yes, I can keep you all in order, 480 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:40,280 "it sounds very interesting, and I'd love to do it." 481 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,160 And a couple of hours later, my partner, Arthur Provis, 482 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,160 received a call from Sylvia Thamm. 483 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,960 And then I got a call from them, really desperate. 484 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,000 And, er... 485 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,680 So, at the end of the day, I said, 486 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,680 "I think the lady who called me would be ideal." 487 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,960 And he said, "The lady who called me was wonderful, 488 00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:02,040 "I'm sure she'd be right." 489 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,680 And we got on very well, so we said, "Let's not argue about it," 490 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,560 so we flipped a coin, and Sylvia got the job. 491 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:14,000 Right from the word go, she meant to have Gerry. 492 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,240 And I mean, I liked her. I was very intrigued by her, 493 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,960 because she had been divorced twice, 494 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,480 and I'd never met anybody who'd been divorced even once. 495 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:21,640 And I was very naive. 496 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,240 And I have wondered, on many occasions, 497 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,560 had that coin landed the other way up, 498 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,960 things would be very different today. 499 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,800 You feeling regret? 500 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,640 No, no. Just curious. 501 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,720 The company really just sat dormant, 502 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,520 with its telephones and notepaper and filing cabinet, 503 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,680 empty filing cabinet, waiting for the phone to ring. 504 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,600 I thought, naively, that people would ring and say, 505 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,280 "Good morning, I'd like to order some films. 506 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,120 "So, we'd like one feature film, three commercials 507 00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:57,440 "and two documentaries." 508 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,520 Before you know it, Dr Beaker, you'll be filming in Hollywood. 509 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,280 Of course, that didn't happen. 510 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,760 I think we made a commercial for Little Noddy. 511 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,880 For one of the Ricicles. 512 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,320 Hello, children. It's me, Little Noddy. 513 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:11,960 We were sort of scratching around, 514 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,240 thinking, "My God, the phone's not ringing." 515 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,960 But finally, and just as we were about to close the company, 516 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,680 a woman by the name of Roberta Leigh turned up on the doorstep. 517 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,000 Who was driving a Rolls-Royce, and she had the chauffeur, 518 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,000 and she sort of swanned in 519 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,720 and announced herself, that she was a children's author. 520 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,640 And said she'd heard we'd made some puppet commercials, 521 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,920 and she'd got this idea called Twizzle, 522 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,720 and were we interested? 523 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,560 So that's basically how we met. 524 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,280 He was desperate to get a job when he came to me. 525 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,320 He'd made a Noddy commercial. 526 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,040 She was a rich lady, and a bit out of our league, really. 527 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,840 And they couldn't get started. 528 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,880 Roberta was quite difficult to deal with. 529 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,960 And we found later 530 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,040 that she was going around to all the different companies 531 00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:59,880 and getting the cheapest quote. 532 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,120 And that's how we were introduced into the world of puppetry. 533 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,280 I mean, I can't tell you how upset I was, 534 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,640 you know, to be making bloody puppet films. 535 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,600 Hey, manners, manners! 536 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,400 But they turned out to be his fortune. 537 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,040 And it was actually at that point that he started to make... 538 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,920 real technical advances, 539 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,720 because he was so embarrassed by puppets. 540 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,760 And then he got offered another puppet series. 541 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,520 Gerry Anderson, him and I were like brothers. 542 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,240 We even shared a car at one stage, when we couldn't afford two. 543 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,280 And, er... 544 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,320 He was a wonderful chap. 545 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,000 One of the most honest chaps I've ever met in my life. 546 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,360 I don't know if there was any specific moment 547 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,680 that the relationship ended. 548 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:52,800 But as time went on, that started to fray a little. 549 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,560 Not because of any fallings out. 550 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,320 Gerry says it was because he wanted to buy the place we were in 551 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,800 for some amazing amount of money, and I didn't agree with it. 552 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,840 He's convinced that was the reason. 553 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,800 I don't think that was entirely the reason. 554 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,080 Dad wanted to push forward and do bigger and better things, 555 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,280 and make more technical advances. 556 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,520 And there was a lot of risk involved in that. 557 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,640 They were two different people. 558 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,720 I was rather more careful than Gerry. Gerry would have a go. 559 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,320 And I tended to be careful. 560 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,320 And it gradually made me more and more nervous. 561 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,960 Not a bit like Gerry. He didn't want to do anything, 562 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,520 and Gerry wanted to go all in. 563 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,840 I thought we'd get ourselves into a lot of trouble. 564 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,680 When we made Four Feather Falls, 565 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,040 this is where my relationship with Sylvia developed 566 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,080 and my marriage broke up. 567 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,960 Arthur was horrified by the way Gerry was carrying on with Sylvia 568 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,560 when he had a wife and two babies. 569 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,280 And I decided to go. 570 00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:01,240 Now, I was really ill-equipped to have a serious relationship. 571 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,320 She was, and is, a very, very nice person. 572 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,960 I personally don't think that we were really suited. 573 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,840 I think when he married Mum, he hadn't matured emotionally. 574 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,520 He hadn't left home, he hadn't had girlfriends before my mum. 575 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,800 They were kind of pushed into it, 576 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,160 and it wouldn't have run a long term, 577 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,600 whatever had happened, whether he had met Sylvia or not. 578 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,800 It was doomed from the start. 579 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,760 I certainly, today, I look back, and think, "What an awful thing." 580 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:35,920 If I could replay it, 581 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,200 I certainly would never have allowed it to happen again. 582 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,720 It's too late now. 583 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,720 Yeah. 584 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,800 Too late. 585 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,240 Joy and Linda had a tough time, 586 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,600 because their parents separated when they were both quite young. 587 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,000 I never told anybody who my father was. 588 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,520 Sylvia was the new partner. 589 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,960 She was not particularly sensitive to our needs. 590 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,560 Me and my sister lived at home with Mum. 591 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,080 And we used to go and see Daddy once a fortnight. 592 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,680 He came and picked us up. 593 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,240 There's pictures of us all together as a family, 594 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,440 and it really is very constructed. 595 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,880 When Gerry's first marriage failed, he was quite young. 596 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,880 And I think probably he didn't realise 597 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,920 how badly affected the girls would be. 598 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,160 We were sitting at the tea table in the kitchen, 599 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,880 and of course, by then, we were used to him not being there. 600 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,880 And Mum said, "There's something I need to tell you. 601 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,960 "Daddy and I are going to get divorced." 602 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,240 And I said, "Why?" 603 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,040 Although it's bonkers, because he hadn't been there for ages. 604 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,000 So, Mummy said, "Well, Daddy doesn't love Mummy any more." 605 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,280 And I said, "Well, if he doesn't love Mummy, then I don't love him." 606 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,440 When we were kids, and we went to spend the weekend with Daddy, 607 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,040 I mean, the contrast was incredible. 608 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,520 Because Mum was struggling. She did three jobs. 609 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,360 She was a secretary, she was a seamstress, and she worked in a pub. 610 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,000 He was picking us up in his Roller, and she was doing three jobs. 611 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,440 And then we'd go 612 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,400 and have a completely different lifestyle for two days. 613 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,440 And, er... 614 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,040 As the years went by, we drifted apart. 615 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,000 Erm... 616 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,800 We just bec... We just became estranged, I think. 617 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,880 The great sadness is... 618 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,920 that Dad... 619 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:50,000 I don't think ever really conveyed to any of them how he truly felt. 620 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,160 He talked about it in private, to very, very few people, 621 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,080 that it was a great source of regret to him 622 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,960 that he was not able to bring those kids up. 623 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:07,120 I don't think Daddy had a very good model for happy marriages. 624 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,120 That's not what he'd experienced growing up. 625 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,200 I mean, they came back on the scene later, which was nice. 626 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,400 I was living in London and a friend of mine came over, 627 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,680 and she said to me, 628 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,480 "Did you know your dad's on at the Barbican tonight?" 629 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,280 "Why don't I take you? He's doing a book signing." 630 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:29,240 And I said, "Oh, I don't know. I haven't seen him for ages." 631 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,000 And she said, "Oh, go on. 632 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,320 "It's about time you two got together", blah, blah, blah. 633 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,720 So we went, and he did a talk, and it was really interesting. 634 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,280 Good evening. Thank you for coming along tonight. 635 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,320 And I was sitting right in the front row, 636 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,840 but I hadn't seen him for so long, he didn't know what I looked like. 637 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,960 So when we came out, 638 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,560 everyone was queueing up to get their books signed, 639 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,320 and when I got to the front of the queue, 640 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,040 I gave him my book, and he said, 641 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,640 "What would you like me to write in your book?" 642 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,000 And I said, "You could write, 'To Joy, love Dad.'" 643 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,640 And, erm... Which he nearly had a heart attack. 644 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,920 Dad's failure to maintain personal relationships 645 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,120 began to impact his professional life 646 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,040 almost as soon as it had started. 647 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,320 I didn't get along very well with Roberta Leigh, 648 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:19,760 and I didn't... 649 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,280 You know, in fairness, maybe she didn't like me either. 650 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,360 He's a very evil... A very evil man. 651 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,600 But I decided that we should really do our own series now. 652 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,000 Our position was precarious 653 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,000 right up until the time I met Lew Grade. 654 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,560 We were going under. 655 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,840 And we had made Four Feather Falls. 656 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,600 And I remember, 657 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,240 we sent the last completed film to Granada by post. 658 00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:52,880 And back came a cheque, the final payment. 659 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,520 And we waited for somebody from Granada to say, 660 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,600 "Well, what are you going to do next?" 661 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,920 And I haven't heard from Granada to this day! 662 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:06,000 And Gerry and Reg had come up with an idea, I think with Barry Gray, 663 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,240 about a car that could do everything. 664 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:09,600 Which was Supercar. 665 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,760 I was hoping that somebody would say, 666 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,120 "This is wonderful, how much money do you want?" 667 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,160 And of course, that didn't happen, 668 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,520 and we, again, were about to close our studio 669 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,640 when a man by the name of Connery Chappell came to see us 670 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:29,080 and said, "I know a man whose name is Lew Grade, 671 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,000 "I'm sure he would be interested." 672 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,640 And he made an appointment. 673 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,080 So Gerry went up and met with Lew Grade. 674 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,800 And I showed him the brochure, and I remember him looking at it, 675 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:45,440 and he said, "Yeah, looks good. How much is it going to cost?" 676 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,640 Let's say it was something like £3,000 an episode. 677 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,640 I remember Lew slammed the desk with his fist - 678 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,080 I mean, it frightened the living daylights out of me - 679 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,640 and he said, "I can't possibly afford that sort of money 680 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,600 "for a children's show." 681 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,600 And then I think he must have seen that I looked very frightened, 682 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,000 and so he then became very kind and said, 683 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,040 "Look, Gerry, I tell you what you do. 684 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,080 "Let me see, the time now is five o'clock. 685 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,800 "Go back to the studio, 686 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,880 "come back tomorrow and tell me you've cut that price in half, 687 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,000 "and I'll give you a contract for 26 shows." 688 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,280 Well, I was in my car, going back to Lew. 689 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,360 I had failed. We had cut a third off the budget. 690 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,000 And I went up, and I was nearly in tears. 691 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,120 I'm sure I was smelling like a polecat. 692 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,000 I hadn't shaved, been up all night. 693 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,320 And I said... 694 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,720 I said, "I'm terribly sorry, 695 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:42,400 "but there's no way we can cut it in half. 696 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,640 "But we've managed to cut off a third." 697 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,400 And Lew said, "OK, you've got a deal." 698 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,960 And on the strength of that, we went into production. 699 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,160 So, what are we waiting for? 700 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,760 This is just the start of a long, friendly relationship. 701 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,320 We were probably the dot-com company of the '60s. 702 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,160 That's what we were there. 703 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,760 Looking back, I think Gerry was the king of hardware, 704 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,400 and Sylvia was the queen of software. 705 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,120 At first, I lived with her. 706 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,280 She owned a little, tiny cottage in Bourne End, 707 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,320 and I moved in with her there. 708 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,480 And I think here, again, 709 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,200 all that would be fitting for me to say 710 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,680 is that you can't marry somebody unless there is something there. 711 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,240 I mean, you don't meet somebody 712 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:35,480 and say, "God, I hate you, will you marry me?" 713 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,200 There obviously was a time where we got on very well, 714 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,480 and I was very attracted to her. 715 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,520 The marriage... 716 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,400 started to get bumpy shortly afterwards. 717 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,720 It became progressively more bumpy. 718 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:55,480 It became stormy. 719 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,240 In the extreme. 720 00:37:57,240 --> 00:37:58,960 The storm's getting worse. 721 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,560 It has to be stressed that she has her story. This is mine. 722 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,680 Sylvia wanted to get married in Caxton Hall. 723 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,480 Which was the grand venue 724 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,480 for people who wanted to have big, grand, flashy weddings. 725 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,880 And I suppose it was the first time I had realised 726 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,320 that she was very keen on publicity. 727 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,400 Certainly, all the photographs you see of the two of them, 728 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,480 she's kind of centre stage, 729 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,800 and Gerry's looking maybe slightly embarrassed, 730 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,840 or rather that he'd be somewhere else. 731 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:41,040 Gerry was quite happy not receiving the same sort of publicity. 732 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,400 He really didn't want to be in the public eye. 733 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,320 And obviously that caused tension. 734 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,360 She was, and could have been, an incredible help to me. 735 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,600 She helped me by reading scripts. 736 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,120 I used to dictate the scripts to her. 737 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,840 On Thunderbirds, I dictated the whole script straight off. 738 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,920 From the time I can remember, 739 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,640 he had a... either an Amstrad or a Peacock computer, 740 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,200 which had a 25 MB hard drive. 741 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,080 And he would sit at it and type. 742 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,080 Gerry was a one-finger typer. 743 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,760 A slow and painful process. 744 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,640 When he was writing a script, he would quite often either dictate it 745 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,560 and I would take it down on paper, 746 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,280 or I would type it straight as he was dictating it. 747 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,640 I was just the mechanism to get it onto the paper. 748 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,520 He'd always dictated his scripts, I think. 749 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,560 And I remember to this day, we were sitting on the balcony 750 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,920 of our apartment in Albufeira, 751 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,640 and I said, "There is one more thing, 752 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,400 "right on the front, 'by Gerry and Sylvia Anderson.'" 753 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,240 A thing I've always regretted. 754 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,600 Because it wasn't by Gerry and Sylvia Anderson. 755 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,400 When it came to the nitty-gritty 756 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,440 and the sweat of scripting until the early hours, 757 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:53,920 you know, when things were wrong, 758 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,000 no, she wasn't there. 759 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,520 The way we worked, Gerry had the ideas, 760 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,040 the adventure, the Boys' Own adventure, if you like, 761 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,560 and the idea for the... 762 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,960 And later on, obviously we met with our team, 763 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,800 and they came up with ideas. 764 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,880 A husband-and-wife team, that was invented by the media. 765 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,360 There were four directors. 766 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,800 Myself, Reg Hill, Sylvia and John Read. 767 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,920 The team was four people. 768 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,840 But he was the creative force. 769 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,520 He was the one with the vision, is what we all thought. 770 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,520 I think that I've always had a sort of a storehouse 771 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,400 of unconnected ideas, 772 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,240 and if somebody says, 773 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:36,760 "Look, I want a script for a new series a week from now," 774 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,960 it's a question of getting all these latent ideas out 775 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,920 and putting them together and making a new show. 776 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,560 The idea for Thunderbirds really came to me 777 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,760 as a result of a German mine disaster 778 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,720 which happened in 1963. 779 00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:57,440 What happened was that the mine was flooded. 780 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,560 A lake over the top suddenly went straight down into the mine. 781 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,080 And there were many miners trapped in air pockets, 782 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,440 some 1,000 feet below ground. 783 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,920 And I avidly listened to the news bulletins every day 784 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,680 to hear the progress, 785 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,520 and they were finally rescued. 786 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,880 And so I started to think a rescue story would be really great. 787 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,400 Look, there are 600 people up there with about 40 minutes to live. 788 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,080 Now, you can't help them, but I believe we can. 789 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,240 If it were to be a rescue story in a science fiction setting, 790 00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:35,520 then of course we had to have some very modern aircraft. 791 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,880 And so the series, you know, was gradually formed. 792 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,280 But who should take credit for the shows 793 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,680 became increasingly unclear as time went on. 794 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,720 Dad and Sylvia's memories of the creative process seem to differ, 795 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:48,280 and remain contentious to this day. 796 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:49,440 Thunderbirds are go. 797 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,360 I was at a press conference... 798 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,160 Looks like the action's gonna start. 799 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,920 ..and everybody was yattering away, and what a noise, 800 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,440 and drinking, and all the rest of it, 801 00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,080 and I'm talking to a guy from the press, 802 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,760 and she has a very piercing voice. 803 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,800 You can hear it from a long way away. 804 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,480 And I heard her say, 805 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,080 "Well, the way it works is I sort of do all the creative work, 806 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,120 "the characters, the scripting, all the ideas, 807 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,640 "and Gerry looks after the cameras, that sort of thing." 808 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,720 Well, I could have turned around and... 809 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:18,040 Can you imagine? Can you just imagine? 810 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,160 And I can see how that would have been absolutely infuriating for him, 811 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,200 because, as far as I can tell, 812 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,560 almost every show idea 813 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,760 was inspired by something he had seen or experienced, 814 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,320 or a particular technical fascination that he had. 815 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,920 I mean, obviously any show is a huge collaborative effort, 816 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,080 and some of those contributors will have more influence than others, 817 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,120 but it's all got to start somewhere. 818 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,720 One of his great strengths was seeing the value of people 819 00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:48,920 and being able to promote them, or give them opportunities, 820 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,520 which then fed into the Gerry Anderson ethos 821 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,920 of making the best possible production. 822 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,520 He was always keen on collaboration, and he thrived on it, 823 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,080 but I think if someone were to try and take credit for his work, 824 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,280 it would have just been too much for him to bear. 825 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,640 I think that most people who are knowledgeable, 826 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,400 and who are aware of the product, 827 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,600 are aware of Sylvia's contribution. 828 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,240 I do the characterisation. 829 00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:12,120 Gerry was an expert at what he did, 830 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,160 and she was an expert at what she did. 831 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:19,200 She provided many human touches, in costume and characterisation, 832 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,240 in little touches of humour 833 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:23,680 which might not have been there otherwise. 834 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,960 Her contribution was pretty terrific. 835 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,800 And the two of them combined was a double whammy you couldn't stop. 836 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,960 But unfortunately, life, as it sometimes tends to do, 837 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,120 gets in the way, and gets up to its tricks. 838 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,560 And it didn't work out. 839 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,600 She was very talented, 840 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,920 but she was very determined about what she wanted. 841 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,240 She was very media savvy. 842 00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:54,360 She was a very, very attractive woman. 843 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,720 And she could be very, very nice. 844 00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:01,280 When they had the premiere for Thunderbirds, 845 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,520 she had a dress made for me, and it was absolutely beautiful. 846 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,080 I feel that I was really playing dressing up, really. 847 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,200 It was playing with my dolls, really. 848 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,400 She had a way of getting round me, if she wanted to. 849 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,480 And she came into my room one day and said, very sweet about it, 850 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,680 "Gerry, can I please, please, please play Lady Penelope?" 851 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,640 I may not get another chance. Please. 852 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,320 And I said, "Well, no", because I wanted... 853 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,400 Fenella Fielding, was it? I wanted her to play the part. 854 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,360 And very often, when I disagreed with her, 855 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,400 life became very miserable as a result. 856 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,160 And when we had these sort of terrible rows, 857 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,200 she then had the capacity to maybe hold a hand out, 858 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,400 and we'd go to bed, and it would all be marvellous. 859 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,840 Eventually, I said OK. 860 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:52,960 OK, Penny. 861 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,560 He felt like, "I've already made one mistake. 862 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,600 "I don't want to make another one." 863 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,640 So I think his relationship with Sylvia 864 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,080 became one of constantly doing whatever was necessary 865 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,040 to keep her happy. 866 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,000 To keep her smiling. 867 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,520 To help her further her career. 868 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:16,120 And that was to his, I think, personal detriment, 869 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,880 and, eventually, his professional detriment as well. 870 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,120 But she was a tough cookie. 871 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,760 She was so good as the character, I forgive her everything. 872 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,800 With the marriage falling apart, 873 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,480 certainly from Dad's point of view, anyway, in the mid-'60s, 874 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,840 Sylvia broke the news to Dad that she was pregnant. 875 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,720 My immediate reaction was one of, "Oh, God, I'm trapped." 876 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:44,480 As I already was feeling that "I've had enough of this." 877 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,600 It's a boy! 878 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,520 But once Gerry Jr arrived, 879 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,560 I think he suddenly found a connection. 880 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,920 He was desperate to make up for any failures he'd made as a father 881 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,640 during his previous marriage. 882 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,160 In terms of his parenting, Dad was, of course, a workaholic, 883 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,200 so he wasn't around that much. 884 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,600 But it would be unfair to say that he didn't care. 885 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,120 He just showed it in unusual ways. 886 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,080 Like constantly worrying about his kids coming to physical harm. 887 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,360 I think maybe it's a throwback 888 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,360 to Lionel's death while he was away from home, 889 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,400 and the pain it inflicted on his parents. 890 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,680 And I think it meant that he was always concerned 891 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,680 that some harm may come to his children if they were away from him. 892 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,360 I went to him and I said, 893 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:22,880 "We're going to France." 894 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,080 And he just put the boot in 895 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,320 and started coming out with all this, 896 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,240 "Well, what if the plane door comes open?" 897 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:33,080 I said, "Well, we'll be sucked out, won't we?" 898 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,360 And those fears and anxieties were often manifested on screen, 899 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,040 like in UFO. 900 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:40,960 Dad! 901 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,760 HORN BLARES, TYRES SCREECH 902 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,800 Johnny! 903 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,200 And the lead character, Ed Straker, 904 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,760 is the head of a studio with his marriage collapsing. 905 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,880 It's Dad's art imitating Dad's life. 906 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,000 It was fine when we were all struggling, 907 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,040 but once we got there, erm, 908 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,840 there seemed to be nothing keeping us together, really. No glue. 909 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,520 And finally, 910 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,840 you know, there was total enmity between them. 911 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,120 But the enmity at the end between Gerry and Sylvia 912 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,200 was vituperative or intense. 913 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,400 The whole crew knew that it was going rotten, 914 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,320 and it was an unhappy time for everybody. 915 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,600 At the end of every feature film or television series, 916 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,080 there is an end-of-shooting party. 917 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,600 And things were so bad with Sylvia and myself 918 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,360 that when we got home, I said, 919 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,720 "Look, if you want to go to the party, that's fine, 920 00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:45,640 "but if you're gonna go, I'm not." 921 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,280 And she said, "No, I'm not going, I don't want to go. 922 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,200 "I'm not gonna spoil your evening." 923 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,000 And I said, "OK, fine." And I went to the party. 924 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,840 It was all very nice, and everyone was jolly, 925 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:56,480 and we were all drinking and happy, 926 00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,440 and then she made her appearance. She came in. 927 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,280 And I went over and said, "I thought you weren't coming?" 928 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,320 And she said, "Why, is there a law 929 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,640 "that I can't come to Pinewood Studios?" 930 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:12,240 And I got very, very steamed up. You know, very hurt. 931 00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:14,400 And when the party was over, 932 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,000 there was somebody who I knew very, very well, David Withers - 933 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,720 he was a fairly important member of ITC - 934 00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:24,360 and Sylvia said, "We're going home. Dave, do you wanna come with us?" 935 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,320 I was seething. Last thing I wanted to do 936 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,320 was have to pretend in front of people. 937 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,880 Cos I knew as soon as we got home, there'd be a blazing row. 938 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,680 So he said, "Oh, lovely." So he came back. 939 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,160 So there's Dave, Sylvia and myself. 940 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:37,600 And we were bickering. 941 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,800 And the argument became quite intense. 942 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,600 You know, a really nasty, nasty scene. 943 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,160 And Dave, who I'd known for years, 944 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,040 and I never knew that he played the piano. 945 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,360 And he went over and he lifted the piano, 946 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,240 and he started to play scales. Wonderful. 947 00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:53,920 OK, Gerry. Keep it going. 948 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,360 PIANO PLAYING, GUNFIRE 949 00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,320 And at the end of the argument, I said, 950 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,280 "That's it, I've had enough, 951 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,800 "I'm not having any more. I'm leaving." 952 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,560 That's when it was over. 953 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,000 Dad wanted to proceed with a divorce. 954 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,320 The divorce case, and then the custody case for Gerry Jr, 955 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,520 went on for, I think, six or seven years from that point. 956 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,440 The break-up of the marriage was costing dearly, 957 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,320 and I think the understanding was, I got from Gerry, 958 00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,840 that he virtually used all of his savings 959 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,160 to try and get access to Gerry Jr. 960 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,280 But when I left Sylvia, I said, 961 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,000 "Look, we divide everything exactly in half." Which we did. 962 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,400 She did her thing, and I did my thing. 963 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,400 I bought my flat outright. 964 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,880 I did it up beautifully, cos I know I'm gonna be a bachelor. 965 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,280 And then the trouble started with Gerry. 966 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,680 A legal battle to try and see my son. 967 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,880 From being a very successful person, 968 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,760 his life, I think, took a very serious downturn, 969 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,280 and he really financially struggled, 970 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,920 and lost a lot of the wealth that he had gained. 971 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,720 What happened was, for however many years, 972 00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:09,480 I was in and out of court, 973 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,560 barristers, affidavits, God knows what, 974 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,560 and she used every trick in the trade to prevent me seeing him. 975 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,600 Cos I remember him once saying, 976 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,960 "David, if she came into this room, I'd hit her." 977 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,040 He was distraught, 978 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,080 because he'd sort of lost touch 979 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,280 with his two daughters from his first marriage, 980 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,960 and he couldn't bear the thought of losing a third child, 981 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,480 especially a son, 982 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:39,280 but Gerry was the apple of his eye, so... 983 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,280 He told me that they were going to court 984 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,720 in the discussion of the divorce proceedings, 985 00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,480 and Gerry had turned up there with his lawyer, 986 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,680 and he obviously had money still to be able to afford his lawyer, 987 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,920 and was there in a suit, and very presentable. 988 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,560 And Sylvia turned up in rags. 989 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,680 I don't ever remember seeing Sylvia in old clothes. 990 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,800 She was always immaculate. 991 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,920 She was, erm, 992 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,920 dishevelled, I think is the word that Gerry used. 993 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,960 Appealing on the court 994 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:15,120 so that they would award her whatever the final award was. 995 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:20,600 He was outwitted by a smarter brain when it came to that sort of thing. 996 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:26,080 I think the one thing that I wasn't able to forgive her for 997 00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:31,960 was that she made sure that he didn't see his other son again. 998 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,280 This has been a long and tiring case for all concerned. 999 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:40,080 Finally, I got a letter from the court, I had won the case. 1000 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,240 Lay it out, I would see him every other weekend, 1001 00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:45,880 two weeks' holiday a year. 1002 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,840 So I then phoned Sylvia and said, 1003 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,280 "I would like to see Gerry this weekend." 1004 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:51,560 "Of course." 1005 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,920 I said, "Oh, good, I'll come and pick him up." 1006 00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,000 "No, no, no, I'll deliver him to you." 1007 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:57,040 "Thank you." 1008 00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,280 I woke up Saturday morning, because there was a noise on the letterbox, 1009 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,000 and I thought it was the postman. 1010 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,800 When I went to the front door, there was a letter. 1011 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,160 Let's hope it's good news. 1012 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,960 And it was from Gerry, basically saying, 1013 00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,360 "Dear Dad, I don't want to see you. I don't ever want to see you again." 1014 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,320 When I met him for the first time, after all these years, 1015 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,120 he phoned me out of the blue, and we met in a hotel, 1016 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:23,960 like on neutral ground, 1017 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,440 and he came in and said, "Oh, hello", and he sat down, 1018 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,040 and almost the first thing he said was, 1019 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,160 "You realise I didn't write that letter? 1020 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:33,680 "I was made to write it." 1021 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,240 It was almost the first thing he said. 1022 00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:37,840 Sadly, after their brief reconciliation, 1023 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,880 the relationship broke down, 1024 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,440 and Dad didn't see Gerry Jr again. 1025 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,160 People go out of their way to say, "Of course I'm not bitter. 1026 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,360 "This man came in and blew my mother's head off with a shotgun, 1027 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,160 "but I'm not bitter." You know? 1028 00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:52,960 I'm bloody bitter! 1029 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,400 Yes, I am bitter. 1030 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,560 And I don't try to cover it. You know, I think it was terrible. 1031 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,160 And I think the truth is, I hate her more every day that goes by. 1032 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,720 Nothing gets better. Nothing heals. 1033 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,360 He was very vulnerable. Very gullible. 1034 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,160 And totally lost. 1035 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,600 Yeah, he was pretty well drained of money. 1036 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,800 From the point when Lew had agreed to fund Supercar, 1037 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,840 Lew had always backed Dad, for every project. 1038 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,000 In fact, he famously got cross with Dad 1039 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,760 when Dad wasn't certain that Lew would like an upcoming idea. 1040 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,240 Which turned out to be, I think, Thunderbirds. 1041 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:33,560 And Lew said to Dad... 1042 00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,000 "Gerry, if you want to make a series about that light bulb, 1043 00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,080 "I'll back it." 1044 00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,800 By the mid-late 1970s, 1045 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,480 ATV, which had then become ITC, 1046 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,240 was a lot more corporate. It had got bigger, 1047 00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:49,640 America was involved, 1048 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:54,760 and Lew was beginning to lose his grip of ATV. 1049 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,640 He was no longer the man who could just say, 1050 00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,680 "Yeah, let's make it, I'll find the money." 1051 00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,080 Suddenly, he was under scrutiny from other people within ATV. 1052 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,920 Well, the president of Lew's company in New York phoned and said, 1053 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,760 "Lew, cancel the renewal." 1054 00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,280 And I think that meant that Lew 1055 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,840 could no longer be the yes-man that he always had been. 1056 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,200 I think he could see disaster coming down the tracks. 1057 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,640 And then that left Dad without a solid backer. 1058 00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,200 Looks like I'm on my own. 1059 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,920 Once Space: 1999 finished, there was no work. 1060 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:35,200 If this is the end of one life, we have to start to build a new one. 1061 00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:39,760 In my biography, the dedication reads, 1062 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,040 "To Mary, who saved my life." 1063 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,080 And that's absolutely true. 1064 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,600 She was a gentle soul. 1065 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,200 She was nice. 1066 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,320 She wasn't assertive, or aggressive, 1067 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,720 or someone who's always got to win. 1068 00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:57,120 She didn't get caught up in his drama. 1069 00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,480 It's not uncommon for people to refer to their wives 1070 00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,560 as their better halves, and Gerry, I think, 1071 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,120 lucked out with Mary. 1072 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:04,960 She was his better half, in many respects. 1073 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,520 We used to go to a pub in Cookham. 1074 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,840 It was a pub where Arthur, the waiter, 1075 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,320 contributed his voice to Parker. 1076 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,880 And there was a very sophisticated girl standing there, 1077 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,520 and I suppose, if the truth were to be known, 1078 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,240 I used to look at her 1079 00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:25,120 and have thoughts that I can't repeat on camera. 1080 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,160 But some years later, I was sitting there, 1081 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,400 I'd left Sylvia now, 1082 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,560 and I was very lonely, 1083 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,800 and a very attractive girl came around 1084 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,600 with a big silver tray of drinks. 1085 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,480 And then I said to somebody, "Who is the girl?" 1086 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,400 And they said, "Don't be daft, 1087 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,680 "she's the girl who used to work at The King's Arms." 1088 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,120 I think he was just finishing the first series of Space: 1999, 1089 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,200 And I was working at Bray for Brian Johnson 1090 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,360 on the special effects unit. 1091 00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,160 I've never been very good with women, 1092 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,880 so I kind of went home and rehearsed how I was going to ring her, 1093 00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,040 and I made up some cock and bull story and invited her over, 1094 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,840 and that's how it all began. 1095 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,160 He had got into a position, I think, where he thought, after Sylvia, 1096 00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:11,760 he would never get married again. 1097 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,000 You don't marry the person you want to live with. 1098 00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,160 You marry the person you can't live without. 1099 00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:20,720 But Mum appears to have been the right person to change his mind. 1100 00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:24,520 When he learned that I was expecting, he was surprised. 1101 00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,240 A baby! Ooh! 1102 00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:29,800 I was horrified. 1103 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:34,360 I mean, you know, "I'll be dead before the child's grown up." 1104 00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,520 And she was very philosophical about it, and she talked me into it. 1105 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,560 And suddenly I had a family again. 1106 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:44,200 And everything returned to normal, everything was repaired, 1107 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:46,720 and life is great once more. 1108 00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:50,680 That was when Gerry was really happy, I think. 1109 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,280 'Turn around.' 1110 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,680 'Don't come any closer.' 1111 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,720 I think Mary grounded him. 1112 00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:09,640 And one thing for sure I can say 1113 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,240 is that Mary didn't marry me for my money. 1114 00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:16,520 As a matter of fact, she used to go out to work and earn money 1115 00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,200 while I was at home wearing an overcoat 1116 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,400 because the flat was so cold 1117 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,120 and we couldn't afford to put the heating on, writing a script, 1118 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:24,920 and then she would spend the whole evening 1119 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,000 typing it out and putting it into good English. 1120 00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,240 And I think that was around the time the bailiffs had been in 1121 00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,600 and confiscated some paintings. 1122 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,440 It really shows you've hit rock bottom 1123 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,400 when the bailiffs come in. 1124 00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,400 And it wasn't until, I think, we met Christopher Burr 1125 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,240 that life started to look a little bit better. 1126 00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,320 Christopher Burr was a very, very complex character. 1127 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:47,960 Very, very complicated. 1128 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,320 An utterly brilliant businessman. 1129 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,840 He, after several trips to Japan, 1130 00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:54,880 got the money together for Terrahawks. 1131 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,320 He's a miracle man. An absolute miracle man. 1132 00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:01,320 So he raised the money for the show. But it wasn't nearly enough. 1133 00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,560 And I was desperate to make it. 1134 00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,880 And it was the first stepping stone to my recovery. 1135 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,240 They weren't besties, 1136 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,120 but they worked well together. 1137 00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,040 And then, as people do, 1138 00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:15,680 Christopher suddenly, I think, 1139 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,320 got a bit bored with the film business. 1140 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:20,960 I think what brought it to an end 1141 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,960 was that Christopher bought himself a lovely house in Portugal, 1142 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,560 and he fell in love with Portugal. 1143 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:27,600 And he started to play golf. 1144 00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,160 And finally, I said to him, "I don't think we can go on." 1145 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,720 And we decided to part company amicably. 1146 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:37,080 They didn't really talk again, because Gerry had this thing 1147 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,960 of once people were out of his life, they were out. 1148 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,040 Relationships don't come about easily. 1149 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,560 Gerry wasn't above demonising people in his shows. 1150 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,280 I was aware of Roger Lefkon, 1151 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:56,320 who was part of the funding package for Space Precinct. 1152 00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:00,240 I heard that there were funding problems on Space Precinct. 1153 00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:04,240 I heard Roger's name was associated with those funding problems. 1154 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,800 And so Dad was adamant 1155 00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,960 that when they made new Captain Scarlet in 2005, 1156 00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:14,200 that the baddie, Captain Black, be given the surname Lefkon. 1157 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,680 The only thing we're both certain of is Conrad Lefkon died on Mars. 1158 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,000 The Mysterons killed him. 1159 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,920 And then, of course, there is Zelda in Terrahawks. 1160 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,880 Be quiet, you snivelling wretch! 1161 00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:31,040 Richard Gregory had told me that he was given loose instruction 1162 00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,440 to push the character in a particular direction, 1163 00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,960 which made it look not unlike Sylvia. 1164 00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,520 And being the evil character, evil demon in the show, 1165 00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,520 it was obviously a loaded sculpt. 1166 00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,000 I can leave it up to viewers of Terrahawks 1167 00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,920 to decide whether they think that's true or not. 1168 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,200 I think that had Gerry 1169 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,440 kept all his contacts and friends 1170 00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:03,000 as he moved up through his various series, 1171 01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:08,040 he would have probably done a lot better in later years. 1172 01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:11,400 To me, a relationship is the only thing that counts. 1173 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,120 And I remember he said to me, 1174 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:18,240 "Oh, John, I wish I'd seen more of you. 1175 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:23,520 "When I was busy, I was asked to lunch and everything. 1176 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,480 "Soon as I haven't any work, nobody wants to know." 1177 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:34,000 Everybody who had a friendship with Gerry formerly 1178 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,160 was somebody who was useful to him, I think. 1179 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,520 He found it very hard to make friends, 1180 01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:44,320 and I think he just, maybe in the earlier days, 1181 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:49,440 didn't see the value of maintaining good relationships with people. 1182 01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,520 If you look at Gerry's history with producers, 1183 01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,800 there's a long list of producers who worked with him. 1184 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,160 You have failed, and must pay the price. 1185 01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,040 He had a thin skin, I think, Gerry. 1186 01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,400 As with Oscar Wilde, 1187 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,680 there was a thing called The Gentle Art Of Making Enemies. 1188 01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,960 My temperament is like riding a roller-coaster. 1189 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,280 I don't think I'm the only one who'll say 1190 01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,240 that if he took against somebody, 1191 01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,800 then there'd be fireworks. He wouldn't work with them again. 1192 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,840 I remember when we were making a commercial for Toilet Duck. 1193 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,400 It was always difficult working with clients from abroad, 1194 01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,880 and certainly, our clients didn't have very good English. 1195 01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,520 And Gerry would always check with them and say, 1196 01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,160 "This is the set up, have a look through the camera, are you happy?" 1197 01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:34,920 "Yeah, yeah, everybody's happy." 1198 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,600 And so we probably spent two or three hours doing the setup. 1199 01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,160 We were running behind because it was such a complicated shot to get. 1200 01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:46,120 And eventually, we did get the shot, and Gerry was happy, 1201 01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,400 and he turned around to the advertising agency representatives 1202 01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:51,080 and said, "Are you happy?" 1203 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:52,960 And they went, "Yeah, yeah, we're happy." 1204 01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:54,960 "Are you sure?" "Yeah, yeah." 1205 01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,800 And so we started to strike the set, 1206 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,960 and then one of them turned around and said, "Oh, could we just...?" 1207 01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:02,680 And Gerry just went absolutely ballistic, 1208 01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,760 and screamed and shouted and whatever. 1209 01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,440 No bad language, but... 1210 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,360 I'm not afraid to say what I think. 1211 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,400 I'm not afraid of going into a blazing row. 1212 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,000 If that's what it takes to get the bitter out, I'll do it. 1213 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,360 I think if Gerry thought he was being creatively trodden upon, 1214 01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,600 then that would be enough, on occasion, to, 1215 01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,480 if he didn't like you, to put you on the back burner. 1216 01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,240 I think we all know 1217 01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,560 when a relationship starts to come to an end. 1218 01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,600 As Captain Scarlet finished, Gerry and I's working relationship 1219 01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,120 wasn't as good as it had been. 1220 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,280 I actually called Gerry and said to him, 1221 01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:39,120 "Listen, Gerry, I think this is a really disappointing situation. 1222 01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,160 "I don't want it to end like this, 1223 01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,280 "and I'd just like if we could maintain a friendship." 1224 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,240 And Gerry very kindly said, "Come up for lunch." 1225 01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,240 But he was a different Gerry. 1226 01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:51,960 He'd made his decision, 1227 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,000 and I wasn't gonna be a part of any future productions. 1228 01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,400 It didn't matter to him that I wasn't a friend any more. 1229 01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,000 Towards the end of his life, I think that was more likely 1230 01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:02,680 because of his dementia kicking in. 1231 01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,400 It's beyond my comprehension, the thought of retiring, 1232 01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,120 not unless some ill health forces it. 1233 01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,520 Hindsight is a wonderful thing. 1234 01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,760 None of us on the production knew that he wasn't very well. 1235 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:18,280 Looking back on it, there were clear and obvious signs. 1236 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,960 I recall around 2003, 1237 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,960 so long before there was any diagnosis, 1238 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,440 or any real sign that there was something wrong. 1239 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,240 He would forget appointments, 1240 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,880 or get them muddled, he'd get them on the wrong day. 1241 01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,560 His driving became erratic. 1242 01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,600 Dad had come into London to pick me and a friend up from Fulham 1243 01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:44,280 and drive us back home. 1244 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,760 And we were driving out on the M4, 1245 01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:51,360 and my friend Jack nudged me in the ribs 1246 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,840 and looked down at the side of the car, 1247 01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:55,800 and I looked down, 1248 01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,400 and his lane placement was really weird, 1249 01:03:58,400 --> 01:03:59,920 he was sort of... 1250 01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:01,840 Not even drifting, but just the car 1251 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:05,080 was placed slightly over the white lines, out of the lane. 1252 01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:06,760 He was a really good driver. 1253 01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,680 He was a fast driver, but he had really good reflexes. 1254 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,200 I mean, I think he really enjoyed driving. 1255 01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:15,560 And at the time, I just thought, "Oh, he's distracted", or whatever. 1256 01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,520 Looking at his GPS monitor, or thinking about something else, or... 1257 01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:26,320 But that was the start of us seeing changes in his driving ability, 1258 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,840 changes in his spatial awareness. 1259 01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:32,120 By early 2004, 1260 01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:36,120 I was seeing more strange moments in his driving. 1261 01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:38,440 Entering roundabouts in the wrong lane, 1262 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,200 having little, tiny accidents, moments, 1263 01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,600 just where he would sort of scrape his car, 1264 01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,680 little things that, at the time, you think, "Oh, he's being clumsy", 1265 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:51,440 but it all added up to starting to look a bit strange. 1266 01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:52,640 And within a year of that, 1267 01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:54,800 he was starting to have real problems driving. 1268 01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,080 Again, which, at the time... 1269 01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,680 It seems ridiculous now, but you brush them off, 1270 01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:01,920 and you say, "Oh, he's stressed", or, "He's tired." 1271 01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:07,760 He would get lost on a simple journey between home and Pinewood. 1272 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,520 Which, you know, was his second home. 1273 01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:15,720 He'd been coming to Pinewood for probably 50 years by that point. 1274 01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,960 So, one time he came to Pinewood to have lunch with me, 1275 01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,800 and he'd got back into his car and taken four hours to get home. 1276 01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,560 I was about to call the police to report him missing. 1277 01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:28,200 And you would think, at that point, that your natural response would be, 1278 01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,560 "OK, we've got to get this checked out", but even then... 1279 01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,920 Because he was so insistent that he was absolutely fine, 1280 01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:37,480 and there was no problem, 1281 01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:43,120 you would just sort of go, "Oh, OK, we'll agree with you, in that case." 1282 01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:48,960 I can't remember the exact incident that catalysed me into action. 1283 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:56,000 But I think I remember watching a documentary about Terry Pratchett, 1284 01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,320 who had recently been diagnosed 1285 01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,800 with a very specific form of dementia called PCA. 1286 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:04,080 And in that documentary, 1287 01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:09,920 I think Terry talked about confusing the phone for the TV remote. 1288 01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:14,800 And I thought, "I've seen Dad do that." 1289 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:16,880 I rung him, and every time I rung him, 1290 01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,360 he picked up the phone and he said, "Hello," 1291 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,480 and I said, "Hello, Daddy, it's Joy." 1292 01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,360 And he put the phone down. 1293 01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,240 And I thought, "That's really strange, 1294 01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:27,640 "I don't think we've had an argument or anything." 1295 01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,880 So I tried again and again, and every time, it was the same. 1296 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,200 So I just stopped ringing. 1297 01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,040 I just thought, "I think we've got to do something about this." 1298 01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:41,480 And so I suggested that I go and speak to Dad's GP, 1299 01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:45,920 and I would explain to her that I was worried about his behaviour 1300 01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:49,040 and I thought there was something going on, maybe dementia-related, 1301 01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,520 and that could she approach this very delicately? 1302 01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,480 She couldn't possibly tell him that I'd been in to see her, 1303 01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,360 because he'd be really upset by that, and she assured me 1304 01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,720 she would handle it professionally and carefully. 1305 01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,880 I explained this all very, very carefully, 1306 01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:04,600 and she agreed a course of action. 1307 01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,720 Dad was due in for a diabetes screening, 1308 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:11,320 because he lived with diabetes for a long time, 1309 01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:15,560 and he went in to see her for his appointment, sat down, 1310 01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:17,360 and the first thing she said was, 1311 01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,240 "Mr Anderson, your son's been to see me, 1312 01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,040 "and he thinks there's something wrong with your brain." 1313 01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,880 He just hit the roof. 1314 01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,400 I mean, to him, 1315 01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:33,400 this was the ultimate act of disloyalty against him. 1316 01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:37,880 He said, in a moment, "I understand why you did what you did, 1317 01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:41,960 "but what you've done is the kiss of death for my career." 1318 01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,240 I don't think he would speak to me for about two weeks. 1319 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,720 Anyway, he eventually agreed to having a few more tests, 1320 01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:51,600 and a dementia diagnosis was confirmed. 1321 01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,120 There is a particular drawing that one does 1322 01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,160 as part of a neuropsychological battery of testing, 1323 01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,120 which is to draw a clock face. 1324 01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,960 And to draw a particular time on it. 1325 01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,360 And I think that was the thing that made him realise 1326 01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:09,560 that he was actually living with Alzheimer's disease. 1327 01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:15,200 It's deeply unpleasant for the person living with dementia, 1328 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,720 but one could argue it's even worse for those around them. 1329 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:20,760 Sometimes I had to phone Jamie and say, 1330 01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,680 "If you don't come home and have your father for half a day, 1331 01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:27,480 "I'm gonna knife him." I mean, it was that bad. 1332 01:08:27,480 --> 01:08:30,240 And anybody who's lived with somebody with dementia 1333 01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:32,400 will tell you the same thing. 1334 01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:34,040 It changes the way you think. 1335 01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:37,360 It changes the way you act towards people you know and love. 1336 01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,360 And Dad would often lash out 1337 01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:43,040 and say extremely hurtful and unpleasant things. 1338 01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:47,360 It was very tough. I mean, any carer will tell you, 1339 01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,880 because you do slip into the role of carer, 1340 01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,840 and you become, at best, grey, at worst, invisible. 1341 01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:55,720 There's little assistance. 1342 01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,360 I tried several times to get somebody to come in 1343 01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:00,400 to sit with him, or maybe take him out, 1344 01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,520 and he didn't like them, didn't want them. 1345 01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,680 I mean, she did an incredible job. 1346 01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:08,600 She was his 24/7 carer for over two years. 1347 01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:12,960 There was a point at which he had accepted the diagnosis, 1348 01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:14,800 and... 1349 01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:19,320 we were sat chatting, and he said, "Well, I don't know, 1350 01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,520 "I don't see what the point of having a diagnosis is, 1351 01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:23,560 "because what are they gonna do?" 1352 01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,760 And I... I just chanced it and said, 1353 01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:28,720 "The other thing you could do now that you've got a diagnosis 1354 01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:32,200 "is you could try and maybe raise awareness about it. 1355 01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:36,760 "You could talk publicly about it, and it might do some good." 1356 01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:38,920 And I thought, "There's no way he's gonna do this, 1357 01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,480 "because he's already complaining about the fact 1358 01:09:41,480 --> 01:09:42,920 "that it's ended his career", 1359 01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:46,160 and coming out about having Alzheimer's disease 1360 01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:50,240 was absolutely the last nail in the coffin for his career. 1361 01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,680 But he, remarkably, said, 1362 01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:57,480 "Hmm, I think I'd like to have a chat with somebody about that." 1363 01:09:57,480 --> 01:10:02,480 One day, I got a call, I think it was about spring, 2012, from Jamie, 1364 01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:07,720 introducing himself, and saying who he was, and who his father was. 1365 01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,000 Gerry himself was very aware 1366 01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:12,760 that, being a figure in the public realm, 1367 01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:16,800 that once he'd made a formal announcement about his dementia, 1368 01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,280 that could be a positive force for good. 1369 01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,760 It was fairly unusual to get a call like that, 1370 01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,680 of someone of that calibre, and that worldwide recognition, 1371 01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:27,600 to want to do something for others. 1372 01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:31,720 And I particularly found it very heart-warming, and very humbling. 1373 01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:34,440 After having chats with Jamie and the family, 1374 01:10:34,440 --> 01:10:37,680 we decided that Gerry could really support us 1375 01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,840 in promoting one of our campaigns, 1376 01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:43,040 which is an ongoing campaign called Memory Walk. 1377 01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:48,800 He agreed to start the Alzheimer's Society Memory Walk 1378 01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:53,000 at Battersea, in London. It's their flagship event. 1379 01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:56,520 And he was starting it alongside Carey Mulligan 1380 01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,680 and Mat Whitecross, the director. 1381 01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,720 And the morning of, I was staying at home, 1382 01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:06,680 and it was supposed to be me driving him up to London for this event, 1383 01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,640 and I think it was the last public event that he did, 1384 01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:11,920 because he was deteriorating so fast. 1385 01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,240 And I went upstairs, and I opened the door, 1386 01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:18,000 and he was still in bed, and he stared at me and said, 1387 01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,880 "What are you doing in here... after what you've done?!" 1388 01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:24,840 And I said, "What have I done, Dad? What's happened?" 1389 01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:27,080 And he said, "You've moved the door. 1390 01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:30,160 "I could have fallen down the stairs because you've moved the door." 1391 01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,440 And then he said, "And who sent those children up?" 1392 01:11:33,440 --> 01:11:35,600 "What children?" 1393 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:38,680 "There were children dancing around my bed, singing." 1394 01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:40,440 And it's only been quite recently, 1395 01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:42,600 when we've been looking back at his life, 1396 01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:46,880 that it suddenly occurred to me that that was a relived memory 1397 01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,400 of one of the strongest recollections he had 1398 01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:53,360 of his experience of anti-Semitism. 1399 01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:56,560 Which was a bunch of kids dancing around him, 1400 01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:00,480 taunting him at school, calling him "Jew boy." 1401 01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:02,920 And knowing how bad he'd been, I thought, 1402 01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:07,080 "There's no way he's gonna be able to do this start." 1403 01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:09,080 Because he's got to make a speech. 1404 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:13,400 When he arrived, he was actually on great form. 1405 01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:16,320 He had a lot of... There was a lot of love in the crowd. 1406 01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:21,200 There was over 1,000 people there. I think 2,000 people there. 1407 01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,560 And loads of them, of course, were Thunderbirds fans, 1408 01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:28,120 so they were delighted to see Gerry there. 1409 01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:30,880 And he responded so well to that. 1410 01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:35,480 He kind of shone in the spotlight. 1411 01:12:35,480 --> 01:12:40,520 He gave a five-minute hilarious speech. 1412 01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:43,880 The public perception of dementia changed hugely 1413 01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,200 thanks to Gerry Anderson's involvement. 1414 01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:48,960 I think that Memory Walk, or that year's Memory Walk, 1415 01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,800 raised over £1 million for Alzheimer's Society. 1416 01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:55,200 Which they have directly attributed to him. 1417 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:58,360 It made me really proud, actually, 1418 01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:03,080 because he was such a private man, who got so easily embarrassed, 1419 01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,760 I felt very forgiving, actually. 1420 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,160 I just thought, "Well, good on you, Dad, 1421 01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:10,320 "that you've been prepared to do this." 1422 01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:13,120 Because, in a sense, for somebody like him, 1423 01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:16,600 losing control was like the ultimate humiliation. 1424 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,960 When he was in quite late stages of Alzheimer's disease, 1425 01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,400 I realised he was forgetting my name. 1426 01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,520 And I would say, "Hello, Dad, it's Jamie." 1427 01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:32,400 And the recognition of that, and the meaning of that was fading. 1428 01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,160 And then, one day, I was... 1429 01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:36,480 I think, actually, we were doing an interview 1430 01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:41,440 for a morning programme, about Alzheimer's disease, 1431 01:13:41,440 --> 01:13:43,880 and he said to the crew, 1432 01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:47,600 "Well, if you need anything, my big brother's over there." 1433 01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,480 And he pointed at me. 1434 01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,440 And... At the time, I just thought, 1435 01:13:53,440 --> 01:13:58,040 "Oh, this is a moment of confusion, and he'll get over it." 1436 01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:00,120 But from that moment forward, 1437 01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:03,000 he only referred to me as his big brother. 1438 01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:04,920 I actually felt quite touched by that. 1439 01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:09,120 I said to Jamie, "That's a real compliment, 1440 01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,360 "because, you know, if he's mixing you up with Lionel, 1441 01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:14,640 "Lionel was very, very special, 1442 01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:16,800 "so he knows you're very special, 1443 01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,360 "even if he can't get your name right." 1444 01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:23,200 From the time that Dad got his diagnosis, he always said, 1445 01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:27,960 "The moment I am not safe at home, I want to go into care." 1446 01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:31,520 He had more and more hallucinations about the space he was living in, 1447 01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:34,120 and he got more and more confused about where he could go. 1448 01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:38,960 And it was getting to the point when we thought, "He is days away 1449 01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,480 "from potentially stepping out across the top step 1450 01:14:41,480 --> 01:14:43,000 "and falling down the stairs." 1451 01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:47,440 So Mum and I agreed that it was time that he needed to go into care. 1452 01:14:47,440 --> 01:14:49,760 Because, you know, she and I were both at home full time, 1453 01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:52,440 and we couldn't cope and give him everything he needed 1454 01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:53,760 to keep him safe and well. 1455 01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:57,640 It was horrendous, because he didn't really understand what was going on. 1456 01:14:57,640 --> 01:14:58,840 So we took him up to the room, 1457 01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:00,880 took all of his stuff up there, got him settled, 1458 01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:04,080 and he just kept saying, "Well, I'm not staying here, am I?" 1459 01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,680 There was a real sense of separation anxiety. 1460 01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,840 And, er... He came to the door of the room, 1461 01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:12,840 and the nurse was outside, 1462 01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:15,760 and she said, "Hello, Mr Anderson, how are you settling in?" 1463 01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:17,120 And he sort of looked at her 1464 01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,560 and said, "I'm not settling in, I'm not staying." 1465 01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,000 And she said, "Well, would you like to meet your neighbour?" 1466 01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:25,920 I said, "That'll be nice, Dad, let's meet your neighbour." 1467 01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,520 An elderly lady came to the door, and the nurse said, 1468 01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:30,680 "Mr Anderson, this is your neighbour. 1469 01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,080 "Her name's Sylvia." 1470 01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:34,880 And even now, saying it, 1471 01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:37,880 I can feel my heart leaping into my mouth, because I just thought, 1472 01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:41,200 "This is terrible, this could not be worse. How is he gonna react?" 1473 01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,760 And sort of everything went in slow motion, 1474 01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:47,440 and after a couple of seconds, he reached out and said, 1475 01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:51,480 "Oh, hello, nice to meet you," and shook her hand. 1476 01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,120 And it was in that moment that I knew for sure 1477 01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,760 that he was no longer Dad, really. 1478 01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:03,520 And they say to you, "Don't come and visit for ten days. 1479 01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,160 "Let the... Let the person settle in." 1480 01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:07,720 You go back after ten days, 1481 01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:09,760 and the person doesn't know you any more. 1482 01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:16,680 It wasn't just Mum that he'd forgotten by that stage. 1483 01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,320 He couldn't remember any of the shows that he'd made. 1484 01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:21,800 Not one. 1485 01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:24,520 And he'd been given a Parker puppet by a fan 1486 01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,880 that I took to the care home to try and comfort him, but... 1487 01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,600 Even that meant nothing to him. 1488 01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:34,360 We had a, er... We had Christmas Day at Mum's. 1489 01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:39,240 And he had really declined very, very quickly 1490 01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:41,480 once he'd gone into the home, I mean... 1491 01:16:41,480 --> 01:16:44,960 You know, memories of where was home and who was Mary. 1492 01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:46,600 All these things had gone. 1493 01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:51,400 Erm, they thought that we had maybe four or five days to go. 1494 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,280 Because I knew that the end was coming, 1495 01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,520 I decided that on Boxing Day morning that I would drive home, 1496 01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,160 get a load of overnight stuff 1497 01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:01,240 and then come back and live at Mum's, because... 1498 01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:04,000 I wanted to be around. 1499 01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:06,320 So, we were driving... 1500 01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:07,400 Erm... 1501 01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:11,040 And my phone rang. And I thought, "Oh, no." 1502 01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:14,320 So I pulled over and answered it. 1503 01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:16,360 And that was the home, to say that he'd passed away. 1504 01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:17,720 Erm... 1505 01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:26,840 It was about two hours before I would've gone back. 1506 01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:37,320 When we knew what he knew, that he didn't have that long to go, 1507 01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:40,760 I said, "Now, we need to talk about funeral." 1508 01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,920 "We'll do something nice and small, and..." 1509 01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:46,320 "I don't want a small funeral! 1510 01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,520 "I want a huge funeral!" 1511 01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,720 So that's what he had. SHE CHUCKLES 1512 01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:53,960 Dying on Boxing Day... 1513 01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:56,880 er, was, was great for that. 1514 01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:58,720 So, he got a huge amount of news coverage, 1515 01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:00,560 and all the way through, I was just thinking, 1516 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:01,960 "God, he really timed this well, 1517 01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,320 "because this is exactly what he would've wanted." 1518 01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,040 And so much positivity. You know, people... 1519 01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,120 People tweeting me and tweeting stuff about him, 1520 01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:12,720 and, you know, I think somebody tweeted 1521 01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,040 that a light had gone out in the universe. 1522 01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:16,880 People saying, erm... 1523 01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:21,280 "You made my childhood very special." 1524 01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,280 Which was very gratifying. 1525 01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,560 What else do you do for Gerry Anderson's funeral, 1526 01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:31,360 other than get a life-size FAB 1 pink Rolls-Royce 1527 01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:33,280 to pull up at the funeral? 1528 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,680 His funeral was amazing. 1529 01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:38,360 People came from all over the place. Came from all over the world. 1530 01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:41,440 We managed to get all the kids together in the same place. 1531 01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:44,600 They all came to the funeral. It brought us all together. 1532 01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:47,640 And, er, I was really chuffed 1533 01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:50,280 that Gerry Jr agreed to be a pallbearer. 1534 01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:52,680 And then we had a sort of get-together, 1535 01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:55,520 and actually, it was quite strange, especially reflecting on it now, 1536 01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,920 just how many people there were. 1537 01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:01,800 As we've discovered, he did not necessarily maintain 1538 01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:04,320 personal professional relationships that well, 1539 01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,400 and yet, hundreds and hundreds of people turned up. 1540 01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:14,000 As part of his ongoing relationship with Alzheimer's Society 1541 01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:18,760 and Alzheimer's Research, he had pre-donated his brain. 1542 01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:23,120 We were ardently campaigning to a particular project 1543 01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:26,120 to forward research into dementia, and it was called, 1544 01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,680 and it is called Brains for Dementia Research. 1545 01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:30,960 I got a call from the family, erm, 1546 01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,520 and I was told that he would be very happy 1547 01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:37,200 to have his brain left in a bucket for research. 1548 01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:38,560 It shows the man's humour. 1549 01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,080 I think Mum and I held onto his ashes for nearly a year 1550 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:43,360 before really deciding what to do. 1551 01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:46,440 And then, one day, we just chatted and said... 1552 01:19:46,440 --> 01:19:48,640 "Do you know, these should really go to Pinewood. 1553 01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:50,560 "That's where he belongs." 1554 01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:54,480 So, Mum and I and Joy and Linda came down. 1555 01:19:54,480 --> 01:20:00,200 I think, er, Gerry Jr had gone back to his home by then in Tasmania, 1556 01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:04,080 and we just had a nice, private 15 minutes. 1557 01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:08,280 We were gonna pour the ashes into the lake from the bridge, 1558 01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:10,480 but it was a bit windy and that wasn't going to work, 1559 01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:12,600 so I just went down by the lakeside 1560 01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:15,520 while Mum and my two sisters stood on the bridge, while I... 1561 01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,080 ..poured his ashes into the lake. 1562 01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:22,640 It's a beautiful place, and it's nice to have somewhere that is... 1563 01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:26,840 despite its surroundings, it's sort of unique to him. 1564 01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:29,000 So there's... Yeah, there was nowhere better. 1565 01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:33,920 People like that don't come along very often, 1566 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:38,440 who established a whole new genre in entertainment 1567 01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:42,200 which is loved, universally, 1568 01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:44,360 by everybody. 1569 01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:49,400 You know, whenever I'm asked about Thunderbirds, 1570 01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:51,200 people's eyes light up. 1571 01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:55,280 He didn't deserve to have such a terrible end. 1572 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:05,280 When I left Mum's house, 1573 01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:09,560 I set off on a journey of several hundred miles 1574 01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:13,520 to come to a place that... 1575 01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,160 has become more and more apparent 1576 01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:20,560 that is the site of so much of Dad's inspiration. 1577 01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:25,800 It's the place where one incident happened 1578 01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:28,320 that changed his life forever 1579 01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:31,840 and set him on a path of creation, 1580 01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:33,480 trying to become a success, 1581 01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:36,360 trying to make something of his life. 1582 01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:41,560 And after many, many hundreds of miles, and many hours of driving, 1583 01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:44,440 we are about to arrive... 1584 01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:47,760 at that place, in Arnhem, in the Netherlands. 1585 01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:21,280 "The Queen and I offer you our heartfelt sympathy 1586 01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:23,560 "in your great sorrow. 1587 01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:27,560 "We pray that your country's gratitude for a life so nobly given 1588 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,480 "in its service may bring you some measure of consolation." 1589 01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:35,720 But I suspect that was of little comfort to them. 1590 01:22:38,440 --> 01:22:43,360 I started this journey not really fully understanding Dad. Erm... 1591 01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:45,240 Understanding some things about him 1592 01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:48,920 and feeling like I had an inkling of what motivated him 1593 01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:51,360 and why he did what he did and why he behaved the way he did. 1594 01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,160 If it wasn't for Lionel first asking that question 1595 01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:56,720 about what's at the edge of the universe, 1596 01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,280 and it wasn't for his time in Light Rescue, 1597 01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:01,560 his time as a hero pilot, 1598 01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:04,720 a template for nearly every leading character in Dad's shows, 1599 01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,520 and without Lionel's brush with Hollywood, 1600 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:10,560 then Dad's life might've taken a very different path. 1601 01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:16,160 But really, I think nothing affected him more in Lionel's life 1602 01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:17,960 than Lionel's death. 1603 01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:20,880 Not only did his death inspire him 1604 01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:26,120 to create utopian worlds that were devoid of religion and war, 1605 01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:29,320 Lionel was an idol that he tried to live up to, 1606 01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:31,520 but he never felt that he succeeded. 1607 01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:36,560 But I think it instilled in him the need to be successful 1608 01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:39,080 and to try and make his parents proud of him. 1609 01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:42,520 That's in spite of Debbie telling him 1610 01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,040 that he should've been killed instead of his brother. 1611 01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:49,200 Dad would've done anything to make his parents proud, 1612 01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:52,240 even though it was most likely their dysfunctional marriage 1613 01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:55,280 that led him to being unable to deal with conflicts, 1614 01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:57,360 be they professional or personal. 1615 01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:01,680 His parents' failings would see Dad 1616 01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:04,520 try to create his perfect childhood on screen, 1617 01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:09,560 filled with money and toys and gadgets. 1618 01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:12,560 But no mothers and only strong fathers. 1619 01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:17,120 Without all these hidden childhood influences, 1620 01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,760 his creations would likely never have existed. 1621 01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:25,000 So having started this journey not really... 1622 01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:26,840 knowing Dad at all... 1623 01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:31,760 ..I feel like I can now say that I, I do know him. 1624 01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:35,840 Possibly better than he knew himself. 1625 01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,720 So, here... 1626 01:24:56,720 --> 01:25:00,640 at the final resting place of the most influential figure 1627 01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:02,920 in Dad's life... 1628 01:25:02,920 --> 01:25:05,840 is the best place for my journey of discovery 1629 01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:07,840 to come to an end. 1630 01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:11,920 I don't think I've got the kind of mind 1631 01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:13,680 that worries about being remembered. 1632 01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:17,680 But I suppose I'd like to think people said that he was a nice guy, 1633 01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:20,720 and I think I would like people to say that 1634 01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:24,360 he was a very responsible person with the films that he made. 1635 01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:28,360 That he did not encourage people to shoot Grandma through the head, 1636 01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:30,760 and didn't encourage drug-taking, 1637 01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:33,280 and hopefully brought a lot of good quality, 1638 01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:35,360 wholesome entertainment for kids. 1639 01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:37,480 I had a friend who would describe somebody 1640 01:25:37,480 --> 01:25:39,560 and say, "He was a very human being." 1641 01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:40,720 I think it's nice, 1642 01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:43,200 and perhaps that's something I'd like to be described as. 1643 01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:03,000 If you could say anything to Gerry today, 1644 01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:04,480 what would you say? 1645 01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:09,640 HE SNIFFLES 1646 01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:15,560 I just... 1647 01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:17,240 HE SNIFFLES 1648 01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:21,280 Erm... 1649 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:22,840 Gosh. 1650 01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:26,560 What would I say? 1651 01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:29,080 I'd have just wanted to say "Thank you" to him. 1652 01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:30,640 "Thank you for the excitement." 1653 01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:34,200 I think simply that he was appreciated. 1654 01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,960 I'm really glad that you met somebody 1655 01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:41,240 that you were able to be happy with for the rest of your life. 1656 01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:43,640 I'd want him to know that... 1657 01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:44,920 Oh, God. Stop it. 1658 01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,160 I want him to know that I forgive him for everything. 1659 01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:01,040 And I think just that he should've been beyond satisfied 1660 01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:02,800 with his success. 1661 01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,200 A big, loud, roaring "thank you". 1662 01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:13,440 Er, I'm not the only one that cried on the day he died, I'm sure. 1663 01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:19,440 Well, we did nearly, just over 30 years married, 1664 01:27:19,440 --> 01:27:21,760 and they said it would never last. 1665 01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:24,240 There we are, proved them wrong. SHE CHUCKLES 1666 01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:34,120 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com138792

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