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Okay, testing.. testing...
This is, I Am the Sun.
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I'm gonna play all
of part A for you.
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00:00:06,215 --> 00:00:07,883
It starts out quiet.
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00:00:15,307 --> 00:00:16,517
And it gets more intense.
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00:00:16,808 --> 00:00:17,928
And when it's playing the...
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When it's playing that part, the whole
band's gonna be crashing on that,
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00:00:22,606 --> 00:00:23,941
so it's gonna be really intense,
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00:00:24,233 --> 00:00:25,484
and the other part's gonna...
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Where does a body end?,
actually it doesn't, does it.
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I mean, in actuality
it's quite porous
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00:00:57,224 --> 00:01:02,771
and we're completely, in a way, fluidly
interconnected with the world around us.
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00:01:03,063 --> 00:01:04,856
And we're just a
kind of temporary
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00:01:05,148 --> 00:01:08,694
agglomeration of molecules
in the shape of a human body
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that then, once we die,
dissipates into the earth
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and is fed on by
other organisms.
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And they release gasses
in the air, people breathe it.
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We're all just floating pods
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in underwater environment,
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just dissolving and
feeding on each other.
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I think it's specious to
think that our individuality is
21
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of really tremendous
great worth.
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And I'm still totally flummoxed
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at the fact that I even exist.
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It just makes no
sense to me at all
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that I'm here breathing or
that this moment right now
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just past passed and it's gone.
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00:01:47,482 --> 00:01:49,192
Where is it? Where
am I right now?
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A big question always is,
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do I really exist?
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00:02:55,842 --> 00:02:58,470
Michael is a singular creator
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00:02:58,970 --> 00:03:01,890
and I think that puts
him within a world
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00:03:03,517 --> 00:03:05,811
for which there are few members.
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00:03:24,579 --> 00:03:28,125
There's something
sacramental about Swans music.
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00:03:29,126 --> 00:03:31,920
Michael is reaching in his...
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00:03:33,505 --> 00:03:35,632
whatever this is, you know,
36
00:03:35,924 --> 00:03:38,885
in his yearning, to
make something happen.
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00:03:39,177 --> 00:03:43,682
He's reaching into the
mysterious and the sacred.
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00:03:44,182 --> 00:03:47,811
Which is what music is.
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00:03:52,816 --> 00:03:56,319
What makes Swans unique
is that Michael is the real deal.
40
00:03:57,237 --> 00:04:00,407
He's crystallizing this
vision that he has had.
41
00:04:00,699 --> 00:04:06,830
He's still able to tap into
these fundaments of life
42
00:04:07,122 --> 00:04:08,874
and very basic feelings.
43
00:04:09,166 --> 00:04:12,043
And there's a
honesty and a passion
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00:04:12,335 --> 00:04:15,630
and a realness to
what Michael's doing.
45
00:04:15,922 --> 00:04:19,217
And he does that at the
expense of everything.
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00:04:19,509 --> 00:04:23,096
And when he's in the middle
of that musical maelstrom,
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00:04:23,388 --> 00:04:27,768
that's all that matters, to
create that moment of ecstasy
48
00:04:28,059 --> 00:04:29,352
and that moment of euphoria.
49
00:04:53,460 --> 00:04:57,714
The essence of music is
regrouped one single band.
50
00:04:59,007 --> 00:05:00,300
And I feel very lucky
51
00:05:00,592 --> 00:05:04,638
to have been able to
witness this era of Swans.
52
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,453
He's a survivor.
53
00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:30,872
Sometimes you
encounter people like that,
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people that just won't give up.
55
00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:35,085
Just, knock me down,
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00:05:35,377 --> 00:05:36,697
but I'm gonna
just stand back up.
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00:05:46,638 --> 00:05:49,015
I think his self-consciousness
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00:05:49,474 --> 00:05:53,603
has just been whittled
away at over the years.
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00:05:53,895 --> 00:05:55,897
So that when you
watch him on stage,
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00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:58,316
you feel free.
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00:05:59,401 --> 00:06:02,153
Even when this
music is really dark,
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00:06:02,445 --> 00:06:04,781
or the words are really
twisted, or whatever,
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00:06:06,491 --> 00:06:09,578
watching a good performer
like Michael and a band
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00:06:09,870 --> 00:06:11,872
so beautifully locked in,
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00:06:12,163 --> 00:06:15,041
is really liberating.
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00:06:16,626 --> 00:06:18,378
It's almost shamanistic.
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He's taken on this job.
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He's just, okay, this is my job.
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00:06:27,178 --> 00:06:29,848
I'm Michael Gira, I'm a shaman.
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00:06:48,491 --> 00:06:50,952
Anybody living a life,
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00:06:51,244 --> 00:06:55,332
if they look at it with
a deep introspection,
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00:06:55,832 --> 00:06:58,251
would see their life
as a spiritual journey.
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00:06:58,710 --> 00:07:03,381
It just so happens in my case,
I leave track marks behind.
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00:07:04,007 --> 00:07:06,885
♪ I was born ♪
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00:07:07,177 --> 00:07:11,973
♪ Under a wand'rin star ♪
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00:07:12,515 --> 00:07:17,312
♪ I was born ♪
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00:07:17,604 --> 00:07:21,608
♪ Under a wand'rin star ♪
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00:07:28,406 --> 00:07:31,451
I think the first time I
actually heard about
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00:07:31,743 --> 00:07:35,872
Michael Gira in New York
was, my band, The Coachmen
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00:07:36,164 --> 00:07:39,626
and we were flyering our
posters around for our next gig,
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wherever that was.
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00:07:41,544 --> 00:07:43,463
And I remember
being inside the club
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and the rest of my band came
in and they were just furious.
84
00:07:47,342 --> 00:07:48,342
And they were like,
85
00:07:48,510 --> 00:07:51,304
"There's this guy outside,
he's a total asshole.
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00:07:51,596 --> 00:07:53,264
He's ripping down
our Coachmen flyers
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00:07:53,556 --> 00:07:55,850
because we put them
on top of their flyers.
88
00:07:56,142 --> 00:07:57,727
It's this band
called Circus Mort."
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00:07:59,521 --> 00:08:02,607
And the name Circus Mort
sort of stuck in my head
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00:08:02,899 --> 00:08:04,442
because I did see
their flyers around.
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00:08:24,963 --> 00:08:27,298
We put up posters
all over the damn city
92
00:08:27,590 --> 00:08:29,610
and worked really hard to try
and get some kind of attention
93
00:08:29,634 --> 00:08:32,053
and following, and
just played all the time.
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00:08:32,345 --> 00:08:35,181
But the music, although I
thought it was good at the time,
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00:08:35,473 --> 00:08:36,975
looking at it now,
was your kind of
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00:08:37,267 --> 00:08:39,394
slightly psychedelic
new wave music.
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00:08:39,686 --> 00:08:41,366
And I didn't know what
the hell I was doing
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00:08:41,646 --> 00:08:43,806
because the music that I
really liked wasn't like that.
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00:08:49,070 --> 00:08:51,656
We just decided that it
wasn't working, I think.
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00:08:51,948 --> 00:08:54,492
I mean, I think the last show
we did, we were all on acid
101
00:08:54,784 --> 00:08:57,245
and that was a pretty
strange experience
102
00:08:57,537 --> 00:08:59,539
and it just kind of
fizzled out, I don't know.
103
00:09:02,125 --> 00:09:05,086
So when Circus Mort
broke up, actually that night,
104
00:09:05,378 --> 00:09:07,547
at the band meeting,
Michael and I went out
105
00:09:07,839 --> 00:09:10,341
to go to a bodega
and pick up some beer.
106
00:09:11,718 --> 00:09:13,178
And on the way out to walk,
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00:09:13,470 --> 00:09:16,848
Michael asked me if I wanted
to work with him on a project.
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00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:18,308
He already had a name for it.
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00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:19,934
He said, I'm
gonna call it Swans.
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00:09:23,688 --> 00:09:25,899
I've got a couple of
different folios of stuff here
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00:09:26,191 --> 00:09:28,318
to show you of Swans.
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00:09:29,986 --> 00:09:32,197
Here's a couple
versions of that shot.
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00:09:33,281 --> 00:09:35,075
Just a few
different prints of it.
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00:09:37,494 --> 00:09:39,537
Now here's an
early Swans poster.
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00:09:39,829 --> 00:09:41,372
That's the color Xerox original.
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00:09:41,664 --> 00:09:44,417
This is the kind of poster
you'd flypaper around town,
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00:09:44,709 --> 00:09:47,253
put on all the derelict
buildings with wheat paste.
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00:09:48,046 --> 00:09:51,257
At some point I took
these pictures of Swans
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00:09:51,549 --> 00:09:53,760
in Michael's apartment
in the East Village.
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00:09:54,052 --> 00:09:55,362
These are the
ones with the noose.
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00:09:55,386 --> 00:09:57,156
Here you can see the
noose in the front of the,
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00:09:57,180 --> 00:09:58,340
that was Mike's idea I think.
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00:10:00,350 --> 00:10:02,602
Mike was a very combative
person in those days
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00:10:02,894 --> 00:10:05,230
and I think to make the
kind of music he was making,
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00:10:05,522 --> 00:10:09,317
he had to be that
way to a degree
126
00:10:09,609 --> 00:10:11,402
because it was very aggressive.
127
00:10:13,238 --> 00:10:16,199
He was really
dredging deep into this
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00:10:17,117 --> 00:10:18,910
darkness, you know?
129
00:10:19,202 --> 00:10:21,579
And it affected
his whole persona.
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00:10:28,086 --> 00:10:29,754
It was a dark
period in New York.
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00:10:30,046 --> 00:10:31,486
Mike was living
in the midst of that
132
00:10:31,631 --> 00:10:34,384
East Village war zone when
it was very a heavy time.
133
00:10:34,676 --> 00:10:36,886
Just garbage
everywhere in the streets.
134
00:10:37,178 --> 00:10:40,223
There were intense
epidemics of heroin use
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00:10:40,515 --> 00:10:44,936
and a lot of drug-related crime
and violence and break-ins.
136
00:10:47,939 --> 00:10:49,482
New York was a dangerous place.
137
00:10:49,774 --> 00:10:52,652
I got mugged... a guy
held a knife to my throat,
138
00:10:52,944 --> 00:10:54,944
pushed me against a wall,
while another guy hovered
139
00:10:54,988 --> 00:10:56,698
with a knife, and
they took my money.
140
00:10:57,532 --> 00:10:59,534
Other than almost
shitting my pants,
141
00:11:00,535 --> 00:11:02,162
it was not fun.
142
00:11:02,662 --> 00:11:05,123
And I just was so shaken
that I went back home and hid.
143
00:11:11,087 --> 00:11:14,215
How difficult it was
to make it in New York,
144
00:11:14,507 --> 00:11:15,627
to just survive in New York.
145
00:11:15,842 --> 00:11:17,802
And I think Mike's aggression
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00:11:18,094 --> 00:11:21,514
towards just what
one had to do to live,
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00:11:21,806 --> 00:11:23,850
like, in a way, you
had to debase yourself
148
00:11:24,142 --> 00:11:28,021
living in these shitty flats,
and taking some crappy job
149
00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:30,153
in order to make enough
money to pay your rent.
150
00:11:30,398 --> 00:11:35,361
I mean, I think, all of that stuff was
an affront to Mike's sensibility in a way
151
00:11:35,653 --> 00:11:37,197
and he wanted to throw it back
152
00:11:37,488 --> 00:11:41,159
in a way that he felt reflected
what he was going through
153
00:11:41,451 --> 00:11:42,660
and what he saw around him.
154
00:12:01,638 --> 00:12:04,682
Swans definitely
had their own unique,
155
00:12:04,974 --> 00:12:08,311
sort of, way of
presenting things.
156
00:12:08,853 --> 00:12:14,234
And it was very much a
product of Michael's persona
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00:12:14,525 --> 00:12:18,905
and his aesthetic
which seemed very stark.
158
00:12:22,784 --> 00:12:26,746
Swans reputation
preceded them immediately
159
00:12:27,038 --> 00:12:29,290
upon their first performances,
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00:12:29,582 --> 00:12:34,545
as one of the loudest and
heaviest, slowest bands to see,
161
00:12:34,837 --> 00:12:37,257
and absolutely uncompromising.
162
00:12:37,548 --> 00:12:39,425
And so, I had to go see Swans,
163
00:12:40,134 --> 00:12:42,720
and of course was
floored immediately.
164
00:12:43,221 --> 00:12:44,221
And in love.
165
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:50,436
Swans were just
absolutely brutal
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00:12:51,354 --> 00:12:53,314
but absolutely beautiful.
167
00:13:00,613 --> 00:13:03,491
In the midst of that sound in some
of those shows in the early days,
168
00:13:03,783 --> 00:13:05,535
it was literally like
I'm standing there
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00:13:05,827 --> 00:13:09,080
and I'm sort of body-slammed
by this sonic event.
170
00:13:09,372 --> 00:13:11,457
And it would propel
me around the stage,
171
00:13:11,749 --> 00:13:13,876
propel me into the monitors,
falling on the monitors.
172
00:13:14,836 --> 00:13:16,921
And it was just
kind about literally
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00:13:17,213 --> 00:13:19,507
an act of very positive
self-destruction,
174
00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:25,138
wanting to make
it sound as violent,
175
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:27,473
caustic and abrasive
176
00:13:27,765 --> 00:13:31,394
and emotionally
disruptive as possible
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00:13:31,686 --> 00:13:33,813
and basically having a
desire for more sound.
178
00:13:34,105 --> 00:13:35,148
More, more.
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00:13:37,692 --> 00:13:41,070
My first memory of seeing
Swans was at the Pyramid Club.
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00:13:42,155 --> 00:13:47,243
I wasn't quite prepared
for the overwhelming nature
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00:13:47,535 --> 00:13:49,787
of what Swans was all
about, I mean, at that point
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00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:53,166
it sounded like it was
really fully formed.
183
00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:54,751
It was very all-enveloping.
184
00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:02,383
That Pyramid gig,
he was just like,
185
00:14:02,675 --> 00:14:06,179
"I'm gonna come out here, I don't
care who you are, I'm gonna decimate."
186
00:14:06,721 --> 00:14:08,181
He was on it.
187
00:14:08,598 --> 00:14:11,809
Just spreading
his blood and guts
188
00:14:12,101 --> 00:14:13,421
and everything
into the audience.
189
00:14:15,229 --> 00:14:16,272
And then I went downstairs
190
00:14:16,564 --> 00:14:18,066
into the tiny little
dressing room
191
00:14:18,358 --> 00:14:20,985
and Michael was sitting there,
192
00:14:23,112 --> 00:14:24,781
his eyes like this
193
00:14:25,073 --> 00:14:28,076
and a stream of snot
coming out of his nose,
194
00:14:28,368 --> 00:14:30,703
just sort of hanging,
and just like...
195
00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:36,876
He couldn't talk. His
brain, everything was gone.
196
00:14:37,168 --> 00:14:39,504
He was just like, he had
just expended himself
197
00:14:39,796 --> 00:14:42,507
so much on stage
that he was just like...
198
00:14:43,508 --> 00:14:45,802
like he was like a feral animal
199
00:14:46,094 --> 00:14:47,637
who just came running
out of the woods
200
00:14:47,929 --> 00:14:50,431
after being chased
by a wolf or something
201
00:14:50,723 --> 00:14:52,809
and had just been attacked
and he was just like...
202
00:15:04,195 --> 00:15:07,490
Well, the tempo of it, it
was unusual in its tempo.
203
00:15:07,782 --> 00:15:09,367
It was very slow.
204
00:15:10,243 --> 00:15:11,994
I mean, it was attractive
because of that.
205
00:15:12,286 --> 00:15:13,454
It was singular.
206
00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,206
There wasn't
anything else like it.
207
00:15:15,498 --> 00:15:16,541
It was notable.
208
00:15:16,833 --> 00:15:18,376
We stood up and we took note.
209
00:15:24,298 --> 00:15:25,658
It started slowing
down naturally,
210
00:15:25,883 --> 00:15:27,510
but to give Jonathan
Kane credit,
211
00:15:27,802 --> 00:15:30,930
he played me some blues music,
212
00:15:31,305 --> 00:15:33,099
and particularly, Howlin' Wolf.
213
00:15:33,391 --> 00:15:35,768
We gonna play, Evil.
214
00:15:36,102 --> 00:15:38,438
There was a Howlin Wolf
song called Evil, and by the way,
215
00:15:38,729 --> 00:15:39,998
I'd been obsessed with that song
216
00:15:40,022 --> 00:15:41,732
since I was about 14 years old.
217
00:15:49,031 --> 00:15:52,368
I just found that to be
most amazing, sensual,
218
00:15:52,660 --> 00:15:57,832
primal groove possible,
particularly the song Evil.
219
00:16:00,168 --> 00:16:03,087
The rhythm to Evil was this
swing time, break down, it was...
220
00:16:13,806 --> 00:16:16,142
There's an early Swans
song called Blackout
221
00:16:16,934 --> 00:16:19,854
which basically, I
was playing, Evil.
222
00:16:27,236 --> 00:16:30,615
For me, creating the rhythm
in Swans was all about
223
00:16:30,907 --> 00:16:34,327
just to break it
down, slow it down
224
00:16:34,619 --> 00:16:37,872
and create a rhythm that
nobody else was doing.
225
00:16:38,164 --> 00:16:40,791
And I think we
succeeded in doing that.
226
00:16:44,712 --> 00:16:47,256
It really just was
wanting to make a sound
227
00:16:47,548 --> 00:16:49,592
that was just so overwhelming
228
00:16:49,884 --> 00:16:52,178
that it just ripped out your
229
00:16:52,929 --> 00:16:55,765
mind, your soul and
your intestines all at once.
230
00:16:56,265 --> 00:16:57,850
It's just wanting
to experience it.
231
00:17:00,478 --> 00:17:02,939
It was just the
feeling of the time
232
00:17:03,231 --> 00:17:05,399
and the feeling of my psyche
233
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,159
you know, it took a lot
of work to get people
234
00:17:08,402 --> 00:17:09,842
that could relate
to that, actually.
235
00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:23,376
I somehow started
catching things on WREK
236
00:17:23,668 --> 00:17:26,462
on this show, Conceptions, a
mysterious show late at night.
237
00:17:27,255 --> 00:17:29,590
Power for Power
from Filth came on
238
00:17:29,882 --> 00:17:32,093
I was in my mother's kitchen,
239
00:17:32,385 --> 00:17:33,886
I was making oatmeal cookies.
240
00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:35,805
And I had the radio on.
241
00:17:36,097 --> 00:17:37,723
And I was immediately
attracted to it.
242
00:17:38,015 --> 00:17:41,060
Found out that it
was this band, Swans.
243
00:17:41,352 --> 00:17:43,396
Could not find their
album anywhere.
244
00:17:45,314 --> 00:17:48,234
What really appealed to me
was that it sounded very tribal.
245
00:17:48,859 --> 00:17:53,781
The slow chorus of
the guitar and the drums
246
00:17:54,073 --> 00:17:56,867
and the sloganeering, the
mantra, the repetitiveness
247
00:17:57,159 --> 00:17:59,912
especially at the end
when it's "Power for Power"
248
00:18:00,204 --> 00:18:02,164
"Power for Power"
249
00:18:05,626 --> 00:18:07,545
"Power for Power"
250
00:18:13,634 --> 00:18:16,429
To me, it had the kind
of processional vibe.
251
00:18:16,721 --> 00:18:18,264
It was very unusual.
252
00:18:20,725 --> 00:18:25,271
And I could not find this album
anywhere so I drove to the station
253
00:18:25,563 --> 00:18:26,563
and I
254
00:18:26,689 --> 00:18:27,690
borrowed
255
00:18:30,151 --> 00:18:31,485
the station's copy.
256
00:18:34,697 --> 00:18:36,490
Swans and Sonic Youth formed
257
00:18:36,782 --> 00:18:39,035
a really tight bond
in those early days.
258
00:18:39,744 --> 00:18:41,954
We really started out
together, we rehearsed together,
259
00:18:42,246 --> 00:18:43,326
we hung out a lot together.
260
00:18:43,748 --> 00:18:46,059
We became really good friends
and we were just bumming around.
261
00:18:46,083 --> 00:18:47,835
We had no money,
nobody had any money.
262
00:18:49,629 --> 00:18:52,965
We would spend whatever
quarters we could find
263
00:18:53,257 --> 00:18:55,551
on playing Ms. Pac
Man in these bars
264
00:18:55,843 --> 00:18:57,261
on the lower East Side.
265
00:19:01,057 --> 00:19:03,517
It really fit our brains.
266
00:19:03,809 --> 00:19:05,769
We just kept doing it,
and doing it, and doing it.
267
00:19:06,228 --> 00:19:10,107
And we kind of found
glory in our poverty.
268
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,362
I started a fanzine
just then called 'Killer'
269
00:19:14,779 --> 00:19:16,822
and I put Michael on the front
270
00:19:17,782 --> 00:19:19,367
where he's screaming
in a microphone
271
00:19:19,992 --> 00:19:21,035
'Killer' fanzine.
272
00:19:30,378 --> 00:19:31,712
Where we practiced was filled
273
00:19:32,004 --> 00:19:34,298
with amplifiers and
guitars and all that stuff.
274
00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:37,677
And the front room just had a
squalid mattress in one corner
275
00:19:37,968 --> 00:19:40,304
and maybe a hot plate to
cook on or something like that.
276
00:19:40,596 --> 00:19:44,266
But, Mike had done these
large drawings on all the walls
277
00:19:44,558 --> 00:19:47,395
and they were really
amazing drawings.
278
00:19:47,937 --> 00:19:49,438
There was creatures with huge,
279
00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:52,024
spurting penises on the walls.
280
00:19:56,821 --> 00:19:58,322
It actually looked amazing.
281
00:19:58,614 --> 00:20:00,825
When you see a
spurting penis in graffiti
282
00:20:01,117 --> 00:20:03,327
on a punk rock club
wall, it comes across as
283
00:20:03,619 --> 00:20:05,996
some kind of a juvenalia, hokum.
284
00:20:06,288 --> 00:20:07,599
And that's not the
sense I was getting
285
00:20:07,623 --> 00:20:09,500
from what Michael was doing.
286
00:20:10,626 --> 00:20:13,212
I didn't, I thought he
was actually very artful.
287
00:20:15,798 --> 00:20:17,967
The 'Bunker' became
this real factory
288
00:20:18,259 --> 00:20:20,845
of Michael Gira mind explosion.
289
00:20:27,852 --> 00:20:29,830
We weren't really getting
much love in New York City,
290
00:20:29,854 --> 00:20:32,398
Sonic Youth and
Swans, in the early '80s.
291
00:20:33,691 --> 00:20:35,484
So we decided that
we needed to play
292
00:20:35,776 --> 00:20:37,403
somewhere besides New York City.
293
00:20:37,695 --> 00:20:40,573
And it was Lee's
idea, Lee Ranaldo,
294
00:20:40,865 --> 00:20:43,868
to actually rent a van and tour.
295
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,912
And it was Michael who
296
00:20:47,204 --> 00:20:49,665
said, let's call it the
Savage Blunder Tour,
297
00:20:49,957 --> 00:20:54,003
because the idea of, we were
kind of just blundering about,
298
00:20:54,670 --> 00:20:57,173
and it was savage.
299
00:20:58,174 --> 00:21:00,009
Lee called these clubs up
300
00:21:00,301 --> 00:21:02,720
and got some commitments to play
301
00:21:03,471 --> 00:21:05,181
and so we had gigs.
302
00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:11,771
We all got into this
windowless van.
303
00:21:12,438 --> 00:21:15,524
Nothing in the back
except for our bodies,
304
00:21:15,816 --> 00:21:19,904
slave ship style, like
this, and we just took off
305
00:21:20,571 --> 00:21:23,324
and we went down and
we played in front of nobody.
306
00:21:23,616 --> 00:21:26,327
I think there's some people
in D.C. who came to see us.
307
00:21:29,663 --> 00:21:30,831
Nobody made any money.
308
00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:33,334
I mean, we were maybe
able to pay for gas,
309
00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:34,627
a donut here and there.
310
00:21:35,628 --> 00:21:38,672
But we really got to figure out
311
00:21:38,964 --> 00:21:41,759
what it was to play for people.
312
00:21:44,094 --> 00:21:45,221
We played these places
313
00:21:45,513 --> 00:21:47,324
and some of the people
who would come were like,
314
00:21:47,348 --> 00:21:49,068
young kids, who were
just like, there's some
315
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:52,144
hardcore bands from
New York in town tonight.
316
00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:54,438
And they'd come and
they wouldn't see hardcore,
317
00:21:54,730 --> 00:21:56,370
they wouldn't see,
the typical, hardcore,
318
00:21:56,482 --> 00:21:57,942
Minor Threat style band.
319
00:21:58,234 --> 00:21:59,860
They saw something
else entirely.
320
00:22:00,903 --> 00:22:02,571
But it was just as loud
321
00:22:02,863 --> 00:22:06,659
and just as hardcore as
hardcore could be, but it was us.
322
00:22:18,462 --> 00:22:20,548
We would come
out, generally first,
323
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,050
because following
Swans was not a good idea
324
00:22:23,342 --> 00:22:24,593
because they were so ferocious.
325
00:22:27,096 --> 00:22:30,057
We were both in our own
ways, pretty extreme bands.
326
00:22:30,349 --> 00:22:32,619
I mean, Sonic Youth was
playing in all these weird tunings
327
00:22:32,643 --> 00:22:34,520
and doing stuff
with our guitars,
328
00:22:34,812 --> 00:22:36,772
drumsticks and
screwdrivers under the strings
329
00:22:37,064 --> 00:22:39,275
that people hadn't seen before.
330
00:22:39,567 --> 00:22:43,362
And Swans were this
incredible high volume onslaught
331
00:22:43,654 --> 00:22:45,281
with double bass guitar,
332
00:22:45,573 --> 00:22:48,450
and people banging metal
percussion and things.
333
00:22:54,999 --> 00:22:57,293
Though we didn't really
sound anything like each other,
334
00:22:57,585 --> 00:23:01,881
we banded together just
because we needed strength.
335
00:23:02,172 --> 00:23:03,757
And being together
gave us strength.
336
00:23:13,809 --> 00:23:17,605
I was about, let's see, 22, 23.
337
00:23:18,355 --> 00:23:19,773
I'd never seen Swans.
338
00:23:20,065 --> 00:23:23,611
I had heard about Swans,
but I had never seen them.
339
00:23:24,653 --> 00:23:26,655
Harry Crosby approached
me and he said,
340
00:23:26,947 --> 00:23:30,701
"You should come and audition
for this band I'm in, Swans."
341
00:23:30,993 --> 00:23:33,370
We're looking
for a guitar player.
342
00:23:33,662 --> 00:23:36,916
Michael's instructions
were, you play low
343
00:23:37,207 --> 00:23:39,668
and then when there's
a signal you play high
344
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,296
and just, feel the music.
345
00:23:42,838 --> 00:23:45,174
I suppose I passed, I guess.
346
00:23:58,812 --> 00:24:00,272
There was personnel changes
347
00:24:00,564 --> 00:24:01,708
right from the very beginning.
348
00:24:01,732 --> 00:24:03,442
Sometimes they didn't
work out musically,
349
00:24:03,734 --> 00:24:07,529
but just as often I
probably drove them away
350
00:24:07,821 --> 00:24:09,698
because I was very dictatorial.
351
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:13,035
Even though at times I didn't
know what I really wanted,
352
00:24:13,327 --> 00:24:14,327
I just was pushing things
353
00:24:14,453 --> 00:24:16,413
to try to find out
what it was I wanted.
354
00:24:16,747 --> 00:24:18,457
Try to find this sound
355
00:24:18,749 --> 00:24:21,669
and I didn't have a very
good power of persuasion.
356
00:24:21,961 --> 00:24:24,630
I yelled a lot, drank a lot,
357
00:24:25,214 --> 00:24:27,758
and I'm sure that I was
a very abrasive person.
358
00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:29,927
That's just who
I was at the time.
359
00:24:30,219 --> 00:24:32,680
I was just this broiling mass of
360
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:36,016
rage, love, anger,
361
00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:37,475
pain,
362
00:24:39,311 --> 00:24:39,937
fear,
363
00:24:40,229 --> 00:24:42,982
all of those things, it was
all broiling around in me.
364
00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:50,572
I was at his place
365
00:24:50,864 --> 00:24:52,199
and he got a fan letter
366
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,660
from Atlanta, Georgia.
367
00:24:55,661 --> 00:24:57,454
And the person's name was Jarboe
368
00:24:57,746 --> 00:24:59,915
and it was a really
interesting fan letter
369
00:25:00,207 --> 00:25:04,253
because it was asking
kind of questions
370
00:25:04,545 --> 00:25:08,716
about Swans music and
himself that were kind of striking,
371
00:25:09,008 --> 00:25:10,676
as if this person
who wrote this letter
372
00:25:10,968 --> 00:25:14,179
was really curious
about this individual
373
00:25:14,471 --> 00:25:17,057
and was kind of
relating to this individual.
374
00:25:24,273 --> 00:25:26,483
The letter that I sent
up there to Michael
375
00:25:26,775 --> 00:25:30,029
with a cassette of work
that I had done and a photo,
376
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,657
it was introducing
what I was doing
377
00:25:33,949 --> 00:25:36,410
and what I was
interested in as an artist.
378
00:25:36,702 --> 00:25:40,581
So it was basically almost
a resume or a portfolio,
379
00:25:40,873 --> 00:25:45,044
in very avant-garde way, to
show every possible accent,
380
00:25:45,335 --> 00:25:49,339
tonality, breathy,
really a full vocabulary
381
00:25:49,631 --> 00:25:51,675
of what the voice I
could do at that time.
382
00:26:03,395 --> 00:26:06,440
So I put that on a tape
and I sent it up there
383
00:26:06,732 --> 00:26:08,692
with a hand that I
cut out of a magazine,
384
00:26:08,984 --> 00:26:11,570
with these claw
fingernails, I photocopied it.
385
00:26:11,862 --> 00:26:15,699
The hand was holding the
tape and then there was a photo
386
00:26:15,991 --> 00:26:18,077
with the person I was
doing the zine with.
387
00:26:21,413 --> 00:26:23,540
He was reading this letter to me
388
00:26:24,333 --> 00:26:26,614
and he was like, "I don't know
how to respond to this guy.
389
00:26:26,668 --> 00:26:28,754
It's almost like he wants
to meet me or something.
390
00:26:29,046 --> 00:26:30,966
I feel really kind of
nervous about this letter."
391
00:26:31,715 --> 00:26:34,968
And I was looking at it and I
was like, "That's a cool letter.
392
00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:38,324
And I was looking at the
photographs, and I was like, "Michael"
393
00:26:38,972 --> 00:26:40,849
I don't think it's this guy,
394
00:26:41,308 --> 00:26:42,643
I think it's the girl.
395
00:26:42,935 --> 00:26:46,063
I think Jarboe is
the girl, not the guy.”
396
00:26:48,524 --> 00:26:51,193
And I remember Michael,
all of a sudden go like,
397
00:26:52,027 --> 00:26:53,445
"Oh, you think so?"
398
00:26:53,987 --> 00:26:56,573
Jarboe was chosen
because you don't know,
399
00:26:56,865 --> 00:26:58,700
is that a man or
is that a woman?
400
00:26:58,992 --> 00:27:03,747
And that was the whole
point, to be completely not
401
00:27:04,665 --> 00:27:08,001
representing yourself
as a female or a male,
402
00:27:08,293 --> 00:27:10,045
just representing
yourself as an artist
403
00:27:10,337 --> 00:27:12,214
without any expectations.
404
00:27:12,881 --> 00:27:16,176
And the next thing I
knew, Jarboe was in town.
405
00:27:16,468 --> 00:27:19,221
And they were, and I
was like, oh that's the,
406
00:27:19,513 --> 00:27:20,753
and she was really interesting.
407
00:27:24,268 --> 00:27:28,605
Michael felt an openness
with me for my input
408
00:27:28,897 --> 00:27:31,150
just because we were friends
409
00:27:31,441 --> 00:27:33,652
and there was some trust there.
410
00:27:33,944 --> 00:27:37,990
And I think he was
curious about evolving.
411
00:27:41,869 --> 00:27:44,079
He invited me to
come on the tour
412
00:27:44,371 --> 00:27:47,082
and I flew over
there in a heartbeat.
413
00:27:50,836 --> 00:27:54,590
It's 1984. Zurich, Switzerland.
414
00:27:55,257 --> 00:27:57,092
I'm outside the vocal booth
415
00:27:57,384 --> 00:27:59,344
where Michael is
recording the vocals
416
00:27:59,636 --> 00:28:01,263
for the Young God E.P.
417
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:05,309
At the time in Swans,
Michael was shouting
418
00:28:05,601 --> 00:28:07,811
and screaming his words.
419
00:28:08,353 --> 00:28:11,815
I suggested he try something
new, something different.
420
00:28:12,232 --> 00:28:16,445
I really wanted to hear
him attempt to do long,
421
00:28:17,070 --> 00:28:20,115
heavy, deep in the chest notes,
422
00:28:20,407 --> 00:28:21,950
instead of just this shouting
423
00:28:22,242 --> 00:28:24,995
and the talking
and the screaming.
424
00:28:25,287 --> 00:28:28,874
Do more vocalizing, from
the singing point of view.
425
00:28:29,791 --> 00:28:32,377
And I had suggested
during a break,
426
00:28:33,128 --> 00:28:35,547
just through the
door, just try that.
427
00:28:47,434 --> 00:28:50,604
And he actually did it
and it was so exciting
428
00:28:51,188 --> 00:28:54,733
to hear him do the
long, descending note.
429
00:28:55,609 --> 00:28:58,070
And it's in evidence
on I Crawled.
430
00:29:10,249 --> 00:29:14,294
And this was really I
think a major move forward
431
00:29:14,586 --> 00:29:17,297
in my opinion
for his vocal style
432
00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:20,384
and for the way he
would approach music.
433
00:29:20,926 --> 00:29:23,345
♪ We'll ride ♪
434
00:29:29,017 --> 00:29:30,697
Jarboe taught me to
sing from your stomach.
435
00:29:31,478 --> 00:29:33,814
It was hard for me to grasp
how to sing from down here,
436
00:29:34,106 --> 00:29:35,148
rather from up here.
437
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:36,709
I would constantly lose my voice
438
00:29:36,733 --> 00:29:38,151
because I was singing from here.
439
00:29:38,443 --> 00:29:41,363
But if you push
the air up and out
440
00:29:41,655 --> 00:29:45,575
without occluding it
with your vocal chords,
441
00:29:46,410 --> 00:29:49,997
or tightening your throat, you're
less likely to lose your voice.
442
00:29:50,289 --> 00:29:51,873
And you'll have
more bellowing power,
443
00:29:52,165 --> 00:29:53,165
which of course I wanted.
444
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,338
And at the same time,
445
00:29:58,630 --> 00:30:01,216
Michael and I were developing
feelings for each other
446
00:30:01,508 --> 00:30:04,052
and developing a relationship
that was very, very intense.
447
00:30:09,766 --> 00:30:12,519
The show at The Loft in Berlin,
448
00:30:12,811 --> 00:30:15,939
he took his entire
earnings of that show
449
00:30:16,231 --> 00:30:19,860
and he bought me roses
from a street vendor in Berlin.
450
00:30:20,485 --> 00:30:23,322
And this was kind of a
powerful moment for us
451
00:30:23,613 --> 00:30:25,615
in terms of our communication
452
00:30:25,907 --> 00:30:27,451
and bonding, you know.
453
00:30:31,204 --> 00:30:34,041
♪ I'm wearing your flesh ♪
454
00:30:34,499 --> 00:30:37,002
♪ Your flesh in my face ♪
455
00:30:44,509 --> 00:30:49,431
That's the front room
and over here is the bar
456
00:30:49,723 --> 00:30:51,725
and I was actually
working at the bar.
457
00:30:52,017 --> 00:30:53,727
Actually I took them there
458
00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:57,189
and I was working at the bar,
459
00:30:57,481 --> 00:30:59,775
yes, and he got piss drunk.
460
00:31:00,442 --> 00:31:02,319
♪ You're superior ♪
461
00:31:03,528 --> 00:31:05,447
I know that I was
very, very impressed
462
00:31:05,739 --> 00:31:07,783
with the shows that
they played in Berlin,
463
00:31:08,075 --> 00:31:09,910
with Roli Mosimann
as the drummer.
464
00:31:10,243 --> 00:31:14,331
This ultra, ultra
slow and loud period.
465
00:31:15,082 --> 00:31:17,376
I liked that very much.
466
00:31:17,876 --> 00:31:20,545
♪ You're corrupt ♪
467
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:24,424
I wanted to be a part of Swans.
468
00:31:24,716 --> 00:31:27,177
I was an unstoppable force.
469
00:31:27,511 --> 00:31:31,723
I saw the future of Swans,
I saw the power of Swans,
470
00:31:32,015 --> 00:31:35,936
I mean, I really believed in
Swans and I believed in Michael
471
00:31:36,228 --> 00:31:37,562
because they were
doing something
472
00:31:37,854 --> 00:31:40,649
that nobody else was
doing, in my opinion, then.
473
00:31:44,611 --> 00:31:47,906
Rob Collins had
started a satellite label
474
00:31:48,198 --> 00:31:51,034
of Some Bizzare called K422.
475
00:31:51,493 --> 00:31:53,912
And it was Jim that
gave us a cassette of the
476
00:31:54,204 --> 00:31:55,414
Swans album, Cop.
477
00:31:56,790 --> 00:32:00,627
Swans recorded Cop pretty
soon after I had met them.
478
00:32:00,919 --> 00:32:02,421
I was friendly with
Rob and I said,
479
00:32:02,712 --> 00:32:03,797
"You gotta listen to this."
480
00:32:04,089 --> 00:32:07,129
And Jim said, "You should work with
this band, they're just incredible live."
481
00:32:07,175 --> 00:32:09,344
"This is gonna
blow your head off."
482
00:32:12,055 --> 00:32:14,933
The offer was made, yes.
We want to put out your record,
483
00:32:15,225 --> 00:32:16,225
we want to record you.
484
00:32:16,476 --> 00:32:19,980
And I remember walking
through the streets of London
485
00:32:20,272 --> 00:32:23,859
after that meeting and
Michael was just on Cloud Nine.
486
00:32:24,151 --> 00:32:26,153
He had this big
smile on his face,
487
00:32:26,445 --> 00:32:28,196
he was almost
dancing on the sidewalk.
488
00:32:28,488 --> 00:32:32,617
He was so happy, cause
this was a huge, huge moment.
489
00:32:37,539 --> 00:32:39,458
We hadn't heard
anything like it really.
490
00:32:39,749 --> 00:32:43,628
It was kind of
just really exciting.
491
00:33:23,376 --> 00:33:25,795
Michael is a person I
feel that had such an
492
00:33:26,087 --> 00:33:28,548
incredible early
life filled with
493
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,427
a lot of intense experience
and intense emotion that
494
00:33:32,719 --> 00:33:35,096
if he had any musical training,
495
00:33:35,388 --> 00:33:37,432
it might have gotten
in the way of him
496
00:33:37,724 --> 00:33:41,937
accessing those emotions and
releasing those into his music.
497
00:33:44,731 --> 00:33:47,943
And so in a way, when
you listen to Swans,
498
00:33:48,235 --> 00:33:51,404
you're getting an
undistilled pipeline
499
00:33:51,696 --> 00:33:54,241
back to Michael's
psyche that is really,
500
00:33:54,533 --> 00:33:56,326
really very much his own.
501
00:34:08,088 --> 00:34:09,339
From a young age,
502
00:34:09,631 --> 00:34:12,259
I felt completely separate
from other people.
503
00:34:12,551 --> 00:34:15,679
I didn't really have
a relationship to
504
00:34:15,971 --> 00:34:17,639
society in any clear way.
505
00:34:17,931 --> 00:34:22,018
I felt self-sufficient
and also kind of
506
00:34:23,937 --> 00:34:25,855
abandoned and on
my own in the world
507
00:34:26,147 --> 00:34:30,569
and it was my place
to claw my way out of it.
508
00:34:36,366 --> 00:34:39,995
My mother, she
was a tragic alcoholic
509
00:34:40,829 --> 00:34:42,706
and didn't really
raise me in any way.
510
00:34:44,374 --> 00:34:46,126
I was a pretty messed up kid.
511
00:34:46,418 --> 00:34:48,578
I was in a lot of trouble
all the time with the police.
512
00:34:48,712 --> 00:34:51,423
I was arrested constantly
for breaking into houses
513
00:34:51,715 --> 00:34:53,758
and vandalism and taking drugs.
514
00:34:54,801 --> 00:34:57,596
I started taking a lot of
drugs at a very early age.
515
00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:59,681
When I was thirteen
516
00:35:00,265 --> 00:35:03,268
I had a big baggie
full of Sekanol on me
517
00:35:03,852 --> 00:35:06,521
and I was just falling
over and stumbling
518
00:35:06,813 --> 00:35:08,815
and someone called
the police and they came
519
00:35:09,107 --> 00:35:10,817
and they arrested me
with all those drugs.
520
00:35:11,693 --> 00:35:14,070
And that's when the
police laid down a condition
521
00:35:14,362 --> 00:35:19,034
to my mother that I could
no longer live with her
522
00:35:19,326 --> 00:35:24,122
or else I was going to go
to juvenile hall until I was 18.
523
00:35:24,873 --> 00:35:27,959
So my father, who was then living
in Germany, came out and got me.
524
00:35:28,251 --> 00:35:29,878
So then we moved to Europe.
525
00:35:32,088 --> 00:35:34,674
He took me to
Paris first with him
526
00:35:34,966 --> 00:35:36,176
and I ran away from there.
527
00:35:36,635 --> 00:35:39,179
Just feeling the call
of the wild of the times.
528
00:35:39,804 --> 00:35:43,183
I met a bunch of pretty scraggly
hippies and I went with them.
529
00:35:43,683 --> 00:35:46,061
Wildness was in
the air and I just left.
530
00:35:46,353 --> 00:35:48,688
I didn't have any sense of
who I was or what I was doing.
531
00:35:49,397 --> 00:35:51,066
We hitchhiked to Amsterdam,
532
00:35:51,650 --> 00:35:53,050
panhandling
barefoot on the streets
533
00:35:53,234 --> 00:35:55,195
and living in squats
and the whole thing.
534
00:35:55,487 --> 00:35:57,047
And the police came
and arrested us all
535
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,659
and I spent a couple
weeks in jail in Amsterdam.
536
00:36:01,660 --> 00:36:03,912
After having been to
some of these rock festivals
537
00:36:04,204 --> 00:36:06,373
where I saw some really
great music on LSD,
538
00:36:06,873 --> 00:36:10,919
I saw Amon Duul, I saw
the Art Ensemble of Chicago,
539
00:36:11,211 --> 00:36:14,381
I saw Frank Zappa,
I saw Soft Machine.
540
00:36:14,673 --> 00:36:17,258
I saw early Pink Floyd
around the Umma Gumma time.
541
00:36:24,057 --> 00:36:26,309
I remember seeing them
perform that and it was just,
542
00:36:27,477 --> 00:36:32,524
cause it's such a slow, tense
build and that scream is just...
543
00:36:35,860 --> 00:36:36,860
That's beautiful.
544
00:36:38,530 --> 00:36:42,659
I mean, it was definitely
an influence, not stylistically,
545
00:36:42,951 --> 00:36:44,953
but just in terms
of the dynamics.
546
00:36:49,374 --> 00:36:52,419
Turns out that the
police contacted my father
547
00:36:52,711 --> 00:36:54,921
cause he of course had
Interpol looking for me.
548
00:36:55,213 --> 00:36:59,259
And then we had a meeting,
my father and I, I suppose
549
00:37:00,343 --> 00:37:03,263
and the deal was that I
was going to either work
550
00:37:03,555 --> 00:37:05,724
in this factory in
Solingen, Germany.
551
00:37:06,015 --> 00:37:08,560
And I guess he figured that
would show me what's what,
552
00:37:09,310 --> 00:37:12,147
or I would go to this
Swiss boarding school.
553
00:37:12,439 --> 00:37:14,524
And so I chose the
factory, of course,
554
00:37:14,816 --> 00:37:17,861
cause he thought I'd last a
week or month or something.
555
00:37:27,871 --> 00:37:30,665
To me, this Swiss school
just seemed like prison camp.
556
00:37:31,875 --> 00:37:34,669
So the next day these
older hippies and I,
557
00:37:34,961 --> 00:37:36,421
we decided to go to Israel.
558
00:37:36,713 --> 00:37:39,924
So we hitchhiked from
Solingen down through Germany
559
00:37:40,216 --> 00:37:44,304
and through Yugoslavia
and then through, into Greece.
560
00:37:44,596 --> 00:37:46,848
And then went from
Greece over to Turkey
561
00:37:47,140 --> 00:37:48,433
and stayed in Istanbul,
562
00:37:49,309 --> 00:37:50,309
pretty penniless.
563
00:37:50,518 --> 00:37:54,272
We left Istanbul and we
went to a kibbutz in Israel
564
00:37:54,564 --> 00:37:57,150
and they had procured
a bunch of hashish
565
00:37:57,650 --> 00:38:00,278
and then hitchhiked
down to Jerusalem
566
00:38:01,154 --> 00:38:03,948
and ended up in a
hostel in Jerusalem,
567
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:06,826
and I was attempting
to sell it there,
568
00:38:07,118 --> 00:38:11,206
and the police walked in
with uzis and I was arrested.
569
00:38:13,374 --> 00:38:16,961
I ended up staying a month
and a half in the jail in Jerusalem.
570
00:38:19,339 --> 00:38:21,966
And then I subsisted in
Jerusalem by panhandling,
571
00:38:22,258 --> 00:38:24,344
and then I sold my blood.
572
00:38:24,886 --> 00:38:28,139
I went to trial and I was
given an additional month.
573
00:38:28,431 --> 00:38:32,393
It was supposed to be a juvenile
prison, but I was sent to an adult prison.
574
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,066
It was horrible and it was something that
a young boy shouldn't have experienced.
575
00:38:40,610 --> 00:38:44,239
In prison, I realized the
most important thing was time
576
00:38:44,531 --> 00:38:47,742
because anybody that's been
in jail knows that time crawls
577
00:38:48,034 --> 00:38:50,411
and there's virtually
nothing to do.
578
00:38:50,703 --> 00:38:53,373
I did read a great deal
for the first time in my life.
579
00:38:53,665 --> 00:38:55,124
And that probably
helped me a lot.
580
00:38:56,376 --> 00:39:00,713
Do you think that had any bearing on the rest of
your life, and. also maybe a sense of urgency?
581
00:39:01,381 --> 00:39:03,192
Yeah, sure, it was like
a panic to get shit done.
582
00:39:03,216 --> 00:39:05,343
To make sure that I
actually did something.
583
00:39:05,635 --> 00:39:07,355
And I still have that,
to a certain extent.
584
00:39:07,554 --> 00:39:08,680
I think we all should.
585
00:39:09,472 --> 00:39:11,641
It was the Dalai
Lama that said that
586
00:39:11,933 --> 00:39:14,227
if death was staring you
in the face at every second,
587
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:16,896
you'd be in the
correct consciousness.
588
00:39:19,274 --> 00:39:22,527
My father must have been
out of his mind with worry.
589
00:39:22,819 --> 00:39:26,447
And that's the kind
solipsism of youth.
590
00:39:27,907 --> 00:39:31,286
Once he found me, my father
sent me back to Southern California.
591
00:39:48,636 --> 00:39:50,847
I thought I was an artist
and I had found my calling.
592
00:39:51,139 --> 00:39:52,640
I was drawing constantly.
593
00:39:53,683 --> 00:39:55,768
I was kind of obsessed
with Robert Crumb
594
00:39:56,102 --> 00:39:59,105
and read somewhere
that he recommended
595
00:39:59,397 --> 00:40:01,000
drawing 50 drawings a
day, so I had notebooks
596
00:40:01,024 --> 00:40:04,694
and I would just draw
constantly, do 50 drawings a day.
597
00:40:05,236 --> 00:40:06,396
I got pretty good at drawing.
598
00:40:07,947 --> 00:40:10,575
This must have
been 77 or something.
599
00:40:10,867 --> 00:40:13,077
All these bands played just
around the corner from OTIS
600
00:40:13,369 --> 00:40:14,662
at some kind of Masonic hall
601
00:40:14,954 --> 00:40:17,624
and since I had been
listening to punk on the radio,
602
00:40:17,916 --> 00:40:19,250
I was really interested.
603
00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:25,757
That concert was just so
shambolic and so violent,
604
00:40:26,841 --> 00:40:29,052
that it just clicked with me.
605
00:40:36,476 --> 00:40:39,062
I had seen Suicide
play in Los Angeles
606
00:40:40,229 --> 00:40:43,149
and they played at a tiny
little place with no stage at all.
607
00:40:43,441 --> 00:40:46,778
So the audience was at the
same level as them performing.
608
00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:49,322
And they were typical LA,
audience, pretty closed-minded
609
00:40:49,614 --> 00:40:51,157
and couldn't deal with Suicide.
610
00:40:51,449 --> 00:40:52,700
And so they were spitting
611
00:40:52,992 --> 00:40:54,911
right in his face as
he was performing.
612
00:40:56,329 --> 00:40:59,499
And he'd just go, ah, ah, and
he'd put it in his mouth and say,
613
00:40:59,791 --> 00:41:01,834
"Oh, thank you,
thank you, thank you."
614
00:41:03,002 --> 00:41:05,004
Hit himself with the
microphone and then continue.
615
00:41:05,296 --> 00:41:07,924
And to me, that was
just utterly inspirational.
616
00:41:08,549 --> 00:41:11,010
Punk just seemed to be
saying all the right things
617
00:41:11,302 --> 00:41:14,472
which was, it kind of embraced,
618
00:41:14,806 --> 00:41:16,683
swallowed up consumer culture
619
00:41:16,975 --> 00:41:20,144
and then spit it back out at
you in a kind of mangled form.
620
00:41:24,899 --> 00:41:28,027
I remember Michael
thinking at some point
621
00:41:28,319 --> 00:41:31,823
something was gonna
happen to bands like us.
622
00:41:35,034 --> 00:41:38,246
♪ Wrap your skin ♪
623
00:41:38,538 --> 00:41:42,834
♪ Around my skin ♪
624
00:41:44,502 --> 00:41:47,213
I saw Swans
625
00:41:47,505 --> 00:41:50,967
February '86 at U.L.U.,
626
00:41:51,259 --> 00:41:52,635
and reviewed that gig,
627
00:41:52,927 --> 00:41:56,139
and that was it
for me, that was it.
628
00:41:56,431 --> 00:41:58,516
I don't mean to
speak in cliches,
629
00:41:58,808 --> 00:42:02,645
but I didn't actually
have words to describe it
630
00:42:03,771 --> 00:42:07,066
except when I had to
put it down on paper.
631
00:42:07,817 --> 00:42:11,446
And to this day, I still
don't have proper words
632
00:42:11,738 --> 00:42:13,823
to describe what
happened that night.
633
00:42:49,776 --> 00:42:54,405
It was the loudest
thing I'd ever heard.
634
00:42:54,697 --> 00:42:56,949
It was louder than Neubauten
635
00:42:57,241 --> 00:42:59,118
and Neubauten were pretty loud.
636
00:43:03,956 --> 00:43:06,834
Swans were not into
protecting your hearing
637
00:43:07,919 --> 00:43:09,921
so there you go...
638
00:43:20,181 --> 00:43:23,601
Swans really went
way past music.
639
00:43:33,319 --> 00:43:38,407
Michael and Swans at that time were
interested in finding out what sound did
640
00:43:38,991 --> 00:43:41,536
Just raw sound.
Seeing what it does.
641
00:43:41,953 --> 00:43:46,958
Almost like a gun pointing at
somebody's head. And see what happens.
642
00:43:56,342 --> 00:44:00,471
It was an almost transcendental
experience when you were hearing it.
643
00:44:10,898 --> 00:44:14,110
There weren't many people who
wanted to review a Swans record,
644
00:44:14,569 --> 00:44:16,863
or go to a Swans
gig and review it.
645
00:44:17,155 --> 00:44:18,447
In fact, hardly any.
646
00:44:19,490 --> 00:44:22,930
You could sit down and try and persuade
people, and they'd be like "No, no, you know...
647
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:25,454
You're off your nut!"
648
00:44:33,588 --> 00:44:35,590
And even if you read
the music papers,
649
00:44:35,882 --> 00:44:40,386
you had to go into very
specific, specialist shops
650
00:44:40,678 --> 00:44:43,764
to be able to actually get
a copy of those records.
651
00:45:12,877 --> 00:45:15,421
Having thought about art
a great deal, I realized that
652
00:45:15,713 --> 00:45:18,466
iconic images were
very important towards
653
00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:21,594
conveying a message,
654
00:45:21,886 --> 00:45:25,139
but the message to me
was important that it be blunt,
655
00:45:25,431 --> 00:45:28,935
but also obtuse
and hard to parse.
656
00:45:29,227 --> 00:45:32,730
I had a great affinity
for writers that wrote
657
00:45:33,022 --> 00:45:35,233
in very cold language about
658
00:45:35,524 --> 00:45:36,524
horrific events.
659
00:45:36,651 --> 00:45:40,029
And I kind of liked that idea
of having this blunt language
660
00:45:40,321 --> 00:45:42,865
but it didn't really
mean what it said.
661
00:45:43,157 --> 00:45:45,868
And that's kind of how
advertising is as well.
662
00:45:46,535 --> 00:45:48,329
You have these bold statements
663
00:45:48,621 --> 00:45:51,624
and then there's always this
tremendous amount of subtext
664
00:45:51,916 --> 00:45:56,087
that are designed to send
tendrils into your consciousness
665
00:45:56,379 --> 00:45:58,422
and lure you into their world,
666
00:45:58,714 --> 00:46:01,050
so all that kind of went into
667
00:46:01,342 --> 00:46:03,135
the use of that iconography
and those images.
668
00:46:03,761 --> 00:46:05,930
♪ Open your mouth ♪
669
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:09,725
♪ This feels good ♪
670
00:46:10,017 --> 00:46:11,936
♪ Open your mouth ♪
671
00:46:12,937 --> 00:46:14,772
♪ Here is your money ♪
672
00:46:16,315 --> 00:46:20,069
Michael, he'd always say
these really primal things like,
673
00:46:20,486 --> 00:46:22,238
"I love you", "Walk away."
674
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,451
♪ I love you ♪
675
00:46:28,661 --> 00:46:29,912
♪ I'm worthless ♪
676
00:46:31,247 --> 00:46:32,707
♪ I'm worthless ♪
677
00:46:33,582 --> 00:46:34,582
♪ I love you ♪
678
00:46:37,503 --> 00:46:41,841
Jarboe was playing keyboard
and doing backing vocals
679
00:46:42,758 --> 00:46:49,515
and wearing some sort
of see-through smock.
680
00:46:49,807 --> 00:46:51,684
And it was something else
681
00:46:52,268 --> 00:46:54,770
people didn't know
what to make of it.
682
00:46:55,062 --> 00:46:57,148
People did not know
what to make of it.
683
00:46:57,606 --> 00:46:58,983
But Jarboe was brilliant.
684
00:47:01,652 --> 00:47:03,779
I I'm sorry I
685
00:47:05,156 --> 00:47:09,327
♪ I won't do it again ♪
686
00:47:15,958 --> 00:47:19,211
Secret Weapon, and Attack Dog.
687
00:47:19,503 --> 00:47:23,883
Both expressions Michael
would use in interviews about me
688
00:47:24,175 --> 00:47:27,636
and what it meant to me
was, the unexpected element.
689
00:47:28,220 --> 00:47:32,141
I remember the first time
I opened a show singing,
690
00:47:32,433 --> 00:47:37,063
I was alone on the stage
singing to a loop on my keyboard.
691
00:47:41,025 --> 00:47:44,320
It was like being a
sacrifice, a sacrificial lamb
692
00:47:44,612 --> 00:47:46,655
and I actually
kind of enjoyed that
693
00:47:46,947 --> 00:47:50,201
because it was a way of
reflecting how strong I could be.
694
00:47:50,493 --> 00:47:54,330
And so we'd go out there
cold, alone, and open the show.
695
00:47:59,126 --> 00:48:01,545
I'd be kneeling on my knees,
696
00:48:02,338 --> 00:48:03,714
singing Blackmail.
697
00:48:04,173 --> 00:48:07,885
♪ Close your eyes ♪
698
00:48:09,095 --> 00:48:12,556
To go out there in front of
an audience, primarily male,
699
00:48:12,848 --> 00:48:16,018
that has come to be
bludgeoned with loud, heavy,
700
00:48:16,310 --> 00:48:22,149
percussive music, is a
very extreme place to be.
701
00:48:25,486 --> 00:48:29,281
Here you are, you're offering yourself,
you're completely vulnerable to them.
702
00:48:29,573 --> 00:48:35,204
So coming out, alone, a
woman, and singing to them,
703
00:48:35,496 --> 00:48:39,041
It's like they're being set
up for what comes later.
704
00:48:39,333 --> 00:48:41,168
And I think in the
case of those days,
705
00:48:41,460 --> 00:48:44,255
before I developed my
own audience in the band,
706
00:48:44,547 --> 00:48:47,842
it made them angry, so I
had things thrown at me,
707
00:48:48,884 --> 00:48:52,972
yelling, spitting, every
insult you could possibly hurl.
708
00:48:53,264 --> 00:48:55,391
Show us your tits,
was one of them.
709
00:48:56,225 --> 00:48:59,812
And I didn't miss a note
because the attitude was like,
710
00:49:00,104 --> 00:49:03,899
you're not gonna even phase
me, I'm not gonna even react.
711
00:49:06,819 --> 00:49:09,697
Now Al [Kizys] reacted
to it in England one time.
712
00:49:09,989 --> 00:49:13,033
And I heard these cowboy
boots come stomping out
713
00:49:13,325 --> 00:49:16,245
and he came up to the edge
and started screaming at them.
714
00:49:17,413 --> 00:49:19,290
"Shut the fuck up, shut up!"
715
00:49:19,582 --> 00:49:23,461
And of course, I still
continued to sing, un-phased.
716
00:49:23,752 --> 00:49:25,796
Un-phased by Al
or by the audience.
717
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:32,803
♪ I'll be your body when
your body is broken ♪
718
00:49:34,430 --> 00:49:36,807
As a performer
you get really strong
719
00:49:37,099 --> 00:49:38,601
when you go
through stuff like that.
720
00:49:41,645 --> 00:49:45,816
Jarboe was a good foil for
working alongside his intensity.
721
00:49:46,108 --> 00:49:48,319
I think she offered
some more subtleties.
722
00:49:48,611 --> 00:49:50,696
Between them, there
was some light and shade.
723
00:49:52,740 --> 00:49:54,825
[Algis Kizys] He don't
look American, but he is.
724
00:49:57,495 --> 00:49:59,830
Whooo, look at those tongues.
725
00:50:00,998 --> 00:50:02,833
They be all hairy and pimply.
726
00:50:03,125 --> 00:50:04,210
Uh-oh, we got to go.
727
00:50:04,502 --> 00:50:06,662
[Radio] This is American Top
40, my name's Casey Kasem,
728
00:50:06,754 --> 00:50:09,757
and our countdown to the number
one song in the land continues.
729
00:50:10,049 --> 00:50:11,675
♪ Number 20 ♪
730
00:50:11,967 --> 00:50:14,845
Here's a song that hit number one
in five countries, including the U.S.
731
00:50:15,137 --> 00:50:17,139
Who's That Girl by Madonna.
732
00:51:05,312 --> 00:51:08,649
Children of God was just
like a bolt from the blue.
733
00:51:10,776 --> 00:51:14,113
Because you don't know what
to expect, what's coming next
734
00:51:14,405 --> 00:51:15,406
after...
735
00:51:16,907 --> 00:51:20,035
what had gone before. You
don't know what to expect.
736
00:51:39,138 --> 00:51:43,892
What Swans had done
up 'til then was very specific
737
00:51:44,184 --> 00:51:46,478
and then they
started branching out.
738
00:51:46,770 --> 00:51:50,024
And they thought they
could bring their ideas,
739
00:51:50,316 --> 00:51:53,611
which some people
would say were extreme,
740
00:51:53,902 --> 00:51:55,279
into the mainstream.
741
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:05,831
How different Swans music was
742
00:52:06,123 --> 00:52:08,375
compared to everything
else going on at that time.
743
00:52:10,878 --> 00:52:13,922
There's times I got
off stage in those days
744
00:52:14,214 --> 00:52:18,469
for sure I knew at
that time, on that day,
745
00:52:18,761 --> 00:52:22,264
we were the best band
in the world, for sure.
746
00:52:29,897 --> 00:52:31,649
Children of God kind
of grew organically
747
00:52:31,940 --> 00:52:33,984
out of being obsessed
with the money thing.
748
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,570
I was just thinking
about religion and sex
749
00:52:36,862 --> 00:52:38,530
actually as being
one more kind of way
750
00:52:38,822 --> 00:52:40,824
of subsuming yourself in
751
00:52:41,158 --> 00:52:43,619
an entity or ideas
outside yourself.
752
00:52:44,119 --> 00:52:46,559
Sex being the way that it's
perceived in the media and things.
753
00:52:47,665 --> 00:52:49,505
I just started writing
with that theme in mind.
754
00:52:50,501 --> 00:52:52,836
[Jimmy Swaggart] He's
coming again, he's coming again,
755
00:52:54,213 --> 00:52:56,924
I remember seeing Jimmy
Swaggart who was a great
756
00:52:57,257 --> 00:52:58,967
rock performer, actually.
757
00:52:59,343 --> 00:53:03,013
But it was Jesus that
hung upon the bloody hill
758
00:53:03,305 --> 00:53:06,266
And just being amazed at
that and seeing the power in that
759
00:53:06,558 --> 00:53:08,018
and wanting to access that idea
760
00:53:08,310 --> 00:53:10,938
with the notion of
God and religion.
761
00:53:12,398 --> 00:53:14,858
But it is a gift of God!
762
00:53:15,359 --> 00:53:19,029
I was just accessing that
language because it seemed right.
763
00:53:19,863 --> 00:53:21,365
♪ Come into me, Lord ♪
764
00:53:21,657 --> 00:53:23,242
♪ Come in now ♪
765
00:53:23,701 --> 00:53:25,786
Without really
moralizing about it.
766
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,790
Get in it and serve God and
worship Jesus with all of your heart.
767
00:53:30,457 --> 00:53:32,251
♪ Praise God ♪
768
00:53:32,793 --> 00:53:35,129
♪ Say His name out loud ♪
769
00:53:36,171 --> 00:53:39,133
♪ I am sexless ♪
770
00:53:40,175 --> 00:53:42,428
♪ And I am impure ♪
771
00:53:44,847 --> 00:53:46,390
I'm not making a
comparison to Bowie,
772
00:53:46,682 --> 00:53:49,977
but I think Michael's
got this ability to reinvent,
773
00:53:50,269 --> 00:53:53,105
change direction, he's
not afraid to mix it up.
774
00:53:53,814 --> 00:53:54,854
He's not afraid to sort of
775
00:53:55,816 --> 00:53:59,695
confront his fans with
something completely different
776
00:53:59,987 --> 00:54:03,323
and if they don't want to
go on his journey, that's fine.
777
00:54:08,746 --> 00:54:11,206
Gradually, I started to
suffer under the illusion
778
00:54:11,498 --> 00:54:12,778
that I could actually sing songs
779
00:54:12,833 --> 00:54:15,002
and I started to write
songs on acoustic guitar,
780
00:54:15,294 --> 00:54:19,381
which were tentative affairs
at best at the beginning.
781
00:54:19,673 --> 00:54:21,234
But I eventually taught
myself how to do it,
782
00:54:21,258 --> 00:54:22,968
fairly well I think.
783
00:54:43,238 --> 00:54:45,032
I remember having a
conversation with Michael
784
00:54:45,324 --> 00:54:47,075
before they made Children of God
785
00:54:47,367 --> 00:54:48,807
and he was telling
me that he wanted
786
00:54:49,077 --> 00:54:51,246
to bring in acoustic guitars
787
00:54:51,538 --> 00:54:55,417
and have more of a song-based
structure to that record.
788
00:54:55,918 --> 00:54:58,212
And I was a bit shocked
'cause I was just,
789
00:54:58,504 --> 00:54:59,671
"No, just keep it loud."
790
00:54:59,963 --> 00:55:01,563
Just keep the volume
and the intensity”.
791
00:55:07,346 --> 00:55:10,641
Hopefully, people were
able to get something
792
00:55:10,933 --> 00:55:12,184
real out of it.
793
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,480
I was consistently trying
to break through things
794
00:55:15,687 --> 00:55:17,940
and get to a place
that had a light in it.
795
00:55:21,610 --> 00:55:26,532
♪ Because I love you ♪
796
00:55:29,034 --> 00:55:34,164
♪ You can trust me now ♪
797
00:55:36,667 --> 00:55:38,227
You know, the sound
was never that loud
798
00:55:38,252 --> 00:55:41,547
just for ya-yas, it wasn't
this macho idea of anything.
799
00:55:44,299 --> 00:55:46,979
For certain things, you need certain
volume, and then stuff happens.
800
00:55:49,054 --> 00:55:50,681
There's this thing
called 'opalescence',
801
00:55:50,973 --> 00:55:53,559
which is sort of a phase
transition, you know, that happens
802
00:55:53,851 --> 00:55:55,370
and sort of gives off
this little bright light.
803
00:55:55,394 --> 00:55:56,834
That's why they
call it opalescence.
804
00:55:57,020 --> 00:55:58,373
So that's what would
happen with the sound.
805
00:55:58,397 --> 00:55:59,833
At a certain volume,
there's this phase transition
806
00:55:59,857 --> 00:56:02,109
where the sound
becomes almost liquid.
807
00:56:02,401 --> 00:56:04,561
The sound starts to dance,
it becomes this other thing.
808
00:56:04,778 --> 00:56:06,154
It's a beautiful thing to see
809
00:56:06,446 --> 00:56:07,926
and that's what we
were trying to do.
810
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,751
I remember on stage, it
was really a good feeling,
811
00:56:20,043 --> 00:56:22,004
a good atmosphere,
the sound was so good
812
00:56:22,296 --> 00:56:24,089
because it was where
it's supposed to be.
813
00:56:35,642 --> 00:56:38,645
We were so loud, we
went over the curfew
814
00:56:38,937 --> 00:56:40,314
and so they pulled the plug
815
00:56:40,606 --> 00:56:42,524
on everything but the vocal mic.
816
00:56:42,816 --> 00:56:46,820
So all the instruments were dead
817
00:56:47,571 --> 00:56:51,325
and so we just walked off
stage and Michael continued
818
00:56:51,617 --> 00:56:54,912
to shout and scream
through the microphone,
819
00:56:55,203 --> 00:56:56,622
alone on the stage.
820
00:57:02,502 --> 00:57:06,173
So I don't think that was
particularly polite that they just
821
00:57:06,465 --> 00:57:08,091
cut you off.
822
00:57:22,731 --> 00:57:27,194
I remember him coming in to
the dressing room at the end,
823
00:57:27,778 --> 00:57:29,363
just furious.
824
00:57:30,948 --> 00:57:33,951
And the press in England
didn't help by saying that,
825
00:57:34,242 --> 00:57:36,328
I never saw happen, that
people were throwing up
826
00:57:36,620 --> 00:57:38,705
because of the volume
and all this business.
827
00:57:38,997 --> 00:57:40,832
You know, it kind
of got this reputation
828
00:57:41,124 --> 00:57:44,086
that the reputation
preceded the name
829
00:57:44,378 --> 00:57:47,923
when it was just known for
nothing but bludgeoned loudness.
830
00:57:49,466 --> 00:57:51,718
And that was not the idea.
831
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:10,755
Do you find that there's a chance that you may
break through now and get some attention because
832
00:58:10,779 --> 00:58:11,979
you've been around eight years
833
00:58:12,239 --> 00:58:14,359
and still Swans are only
contained within their group.
834
00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:16,785
Well, I think that's
natural because
835
00:58:17,077 --> 00:58:17,786
what we did for so long
836
00:58:18,078 --> 00:58:19,371
wasn't exactly
837
00:58:19,663 --> 00:58:21,415
mass market potential.
838
00:58:21,707 --> 00:58:23,768
Although I was reminded by
a friend of mine just recently,
839
00:58:23,792 --> 00:58:25,979
that I never could understand
why it wasn't on the charts,
840
00:58:26,003 --> 00:58:28,046
but considering what it was,
841
00:58:28,338 --> 00:58:31,758
I don't think that was
a very realistic outlook.
842
00:58:43,770 --> 00:58:46,857
I was seduced by the
potential to actually make
843
00:58:47,149 --> 00:58:49,943
a decent living at music
and acceded to these things.
844
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:51,945
I know that I
didn't want to live in
845
00:58:52,237 --> 00:58:54,656
a dark, dungeon on Sixth
Street and Avenue B anymore.
846
00:58:55,741 --> 00:58:56,742
I think our aesthetics
847
00:58:57,034 --> 00:58:59,911
were not necessarily correct
for each other and so something
848
00:59:00,996 --> 00:59:02,914
less than stellar resulted.
849
00:59:12,466 --> 00:59:14,968
You know, God forbid a
band changes a sound.
850
00:59:15,260 --> 00:59:17,262
As a person you
change, you can't become
851
00:59:18,388 --> 00:59:21,725
a copy of yourself or a caricature
of what you're supposed to be.
852
00:59:22,017 --> 00:59:24,853
As a human being you change, your
music changes, your ideas change.
853
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:49,002
At the time I thought
it was working out.
854
00:59:49,294 --> 00:59:51,546
But it just seemed that,
that record went so far afield
855
00:59:51,838 --> 00:59:55,550
from my core or
who I am as a person.
856
00:59:56,802 --> 00:59:58,720
What I would have seen
was that as a transition
857
00:59:59,012 --> 01:00:00,722
was these song-based things
858
01:00:01,014 --> 01:00:05,268
with really cinematic and
interesting orchestrations.
859
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:07,187
And instead it turned
out these kind of
860
01:00:07,479 --> 01:00:11,358
discreet orchestrations
that were not expansive.
861
01:00:11,650 --> 01:00:14,069
And I lost control of it.
862
01:00:14,361 --> 01:00:17,447
But it's my fault that I lost
control, it lost its center.
863
01:00:21,868 --> 01:00:24,913
The gloss of Burning
World to me was the issue.
864
01:00:27,833 --> 01:00:30,377
This was a terrible,
terrible, misstep.
865
01:00:32,003 --> 01:00:33,797
The songs themselves
are fantastic.
866
01:00:34,089 --> 01:00:35,590
The songs themselves
are amazing.
867
01:00:35,882 --> 01:00:39,511
But still we weren't allowed
into the mix, you know.
868
01:00:39,970 --> 01:00:41,972
We weren't even
allowed into the studio.
869
01:00:42,722 --> 01:00:45,016
It was just too
artificial an experience.
870
01:00:51,439 --> 01:00:55,610
I think it was just kind
of a shock for the fans
871
01:00:55,902 --> 01:00:58,738
in terms of the whole
machinations of that monster.
872
01:00:59,030 --> 01:01:01,575
It was not a
positive experience.
873
01:01:04,369 --> 01:01:06,663
When I think about
The Burning World,
874
01:01:06,955 --> 01:01:09,166
I think it was an adventure
875
01:01:09,457 --> 01:01:11,710
sideways for Swans.
876
01:01:12,002 --> 01:01:16,548
So I look at it as just a very
specific record unto itself.
877
01:01:18,466 --> 01:01:22,679
I was happy that I
signed Swans then.
878
01:01:22,971 --> 01:01:25,265
I was thrilled,
and I'm still thrilled
879
01:01:25,557 --> 01:01:26,892
that I had that one document
880
01:01:27,184 --> 01:01:31,188
that is unlike any
other Swans record.
881
01:01:42,073 --> 01:01:45,744
It had some good songs on it. It has the
song God Damn The Sun on it which is
882
01:01:46,036 --> 01:01:49,664
one of the best, lyrically one of
the best songs I've ever written.
883
01:01:52,876 --> 01:01:55,670
The classic Swans
asthetic is there.
884
01:01:55,962 --> 01:01:59,966
God Damn The Sun, like if you
think of God Damn The Sun, that lyrics
885
01:02:00,926 --> 01:02:06,473
I mean, that says all about the
Swans asthetic which is this sort of
886
01:02:06,765 --> 01:02:10,560
very personal,
existential looking inside.
887
01:02:10,852 --> 01:02:13,730
It's disconnected from
the universe even...
888
01:02:14,022 --> 01:02:14,356
It's disconnected from the
universe even... "god damn
889
01:02:14,648 --> 01:02:15,666
It's disconnected from the
universe even... "god damn the sun"
890
01:02:15,690 --> 01:02:16,816
that gives us all life.
891
01:02:21,947 --> 01:02:27,077
When you sign to a major label your expectation
is that your record does really well
892
01:02:27,369 --> 01:02:30,622
and it sells in
hopefully the six figures.
893
01:02:31,539 --> 01:02:33,500
But sometimes that
just doesn't happen.
894
01:02:33,792 --> 01:02:35,168
It's about timing.
895
01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:36,711
And I think
896
01:02:37,003 --> 01:02:41,383
the timing of UNI
Records was off.
897
01:02:43,593 --> 01:02:46,263
The damage from
that just psychologically
898
01:02:46,554 --> 01:02:49,933
to me... there was
a loss of confidence.
899
01:02:51,142 --> 01:02:52,852
It always seemed to me that
900
01:02:53,144 --> 01:02:56,273
Swans were waiting
901
01:02:56,564 --> 01:02:57,941
to be accepted.
902
01:02:58,233 --> 01:03:02,570
And it had nothing to do with the
sort of material they were putting out
903
01:03:02,862 --> 01:03:05,740
because The Burning World
was a very accessible record.
904
01:03:06,783 --> 01:03:08,493
But it seemed like
905
01:03:08,868 --> 01:03:13,665
it was Sonic Youth that
were getting more attention.
906
01:03:26,386 --> 01:03:28,805
After The Burning
World was finished,
907
01:03:29,097 --> 01:03:33,518
I was left penniless as usual
at the end of the whole affair
908
01:03:33,810 --> 01:03:36,396
and had to claw my way back out.
909
01:03:37,605 --> 01:03:41,109
Somehow I stood up again and put
things together and moved forward.
910
01:03:45,071 --> 01:03:48,116
But any number of great musicians
have made really crummy music.
911
01:03:48,408 --> 01:03:50,660
I've certainly made my
share of crummy music
912
01:03:50,952 --> 01:03:53,163
with some high
points along the way.
913
01:03:53,538 --> 01:03:54,956
But that was just a failed
914
01:03:55,749 --> 01:03:58,418
avenue, like a dead end.
915
01:03:59,336 --> 01:04:03,381
I found threads in
The Burning World
916
01:04:03,673 --> 01:04:06,134
to continue that were fruitful
917
01:04:06,426 --> 01:04:10,096
to develop in the next record
918
01:04:10,388 --> 01:04:12,474
which is pretty much
how I always keep going.
919
01:04:12,766 --> 01:04:15,518
There's someting
in there that's worth
920
01:04:17,020 --> 01:04:19,481
taking and moving forward with
921
01:04:19,773 --> 01:04:23,234
and discard the rest and then
move forward with that thread.
922
01:04:24,027 --> 01:04:27,405
But I took control
of production, and
923
01:04:28,198 --> 01:04:32,535
I was listening to lots of Ennio Morricone
then at the time, and Phil Spector
924
01:04:34,871 --> 01:04:38,792
and I really wanted to
try my hand at that sort of
925
01:04:40,085 --> 01:04:41,711
uber grandiose production.
926
01:05:00,772 --> 01:05:05,693
The whole M.Q. or basis
of Swans was the idea of
927
01:05:05,985 --> 01:05:09,489
have a sense of
urgency and persistence
928
01:05:10,281 --> 01:05:12,367
you know... keep going
929
01:05:12,659 --> 01:05:17,372
There's that quote about talent...
you know, talent is everywhere
930
01:05:18,164 --> 01:05:22,919
the world will never hear from them, the
world will never see it because they don't
931
01:05:23,211 --> 01:05:25,755
leave their comfort zone
and just be persistent.
932
01:05:26,047 --> 01:05:29,259
Keep going, keep
going, sense of urgency.
933
01:05:35,265 --> 01:05:38,268
I like the way that White Light From
the Mouth of Infinity was recorded.
934
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,688
It's got a sort of
majestic precision.
935
01:05:42,981 --> 01:05:45,316
I met Kirk Cobain
while I was in Atlanta.
936
01:05:46,067 --> 01:05:47,986
And he was a big Swans
fan and he was like,
937
01:05:48,278 --> 01:05:49,988
"Ahhh Swans, I love Swans",
938
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:51,823
I gave him my only cassette of
939
01:05:52,115 --> 01:05:54,795
White Light from the Mouth of
Infinity because it had just come out.
940
01:05:58,246 --> 01:06:01,875
It's interesting from the recording
process around the White Light era.
941
01:06:02,167 --> 01:06:04,586
He was really working on
making accessible music
942
01:06:04,878 --> 01:06:08,256
He was still thinking you
know, commercial music.
943
01:06:08,548 --> 01:06:11,759
It was funny, because the music
he was making was far from it.
944
01:06:22,061 --> 01:06:22,770
White Light
945
01:06:23,062 --> 01:06:25,607
had the intensity
of the early music.
946
01:06:26,983 --> 01:06:29,235
But it had more musicality.
947
01:06:31,070 --> 01:06:33,823
I wouldn't have accrued the
knowledge necessary to make
948
01:06:34,115 --> 01:06:35,658
White Light without having
949
01:06:36,701 --> 01:06:39,537
completely fucked
up on Burning World.
950
01:06:42,165 --> 01:06:45,460
So in a way failure
is very good because
951
01:06:45,752 --> 01:06:47,128
that's how you learn.
952
01:07:05,438 --> 01:07:08,691
I write to create a
mental or experience.
953
01:07:08,983 --> 01:07:13,780
I did not sit down and say, 'Well I failed at MCA,
now I'm going to write a song called Failure...
954
01:07:24,916 --> 01:07:28,920
It's like that was within
my vocabulary as a human,
955
01:07:29,212 --> 01:07:32,590
thinking about failure / work.
956
01:07:33,716 --> 01:07:37,845
And really that song, I think
I wrote that in like an hour.
957
01:07:39,806 --> 01:07:40,974
It just came.
958
01:07:41,266 --> 01:07:46,521
♪ I've learned nothing. I
can't even elegantly bleed ♪
959
01:07:46,813 --> 01:07:53,945
♪ out the poison
blood of failure ♪
960
01:07:54,237 --> 01:08:00,952
I had this rudimentary bluesish riff
and I just wrote the words and it came.
961
01:08:05,873 --> 01:08:11,546
I was trying to steer him more into
this Americana potential that he had.
962
01:08:12,589 --> 01:08:18,761
He didn't really have the confidence in his
own voice as, say like, a country singer.
963
01:08:20,013 --> 01:08:24,809
Man, you have the potential to
be like a Ray Price or something.
964
01:08:27,687 --> 01:08:34,861
When I was fifteen years old, my
boyfriend gave me my first Swans tape.
965
01:08:35,236 --> 01:08:37,989
And like there was Swans!
966
01:08:38,281 --> 01:08:41,409
And I didn't love heavy music
967
01:08:41,701 --> 01:08:44,120
but when I heard Love of Life
968
01:08:45,079 --> 01:08:47,832
I was like, "Oh
my God, I get it"
969
01:08:48,791 --> 01:08:52,629
It's not only heavy,
aggressive music
970
01:08:52,920 --> 01:09:00,920
It's also inviting and melodic and
it's this ocean of sound and words
971
01:09:03,056 --> 01:09:07,435
and all of a sudden I could understand
wanting to listen to really loud music.
972
01:09:08,061 --> 01:09:14,651
And I remember thinking like, The Burning World and Filth
and Love of Life, sound like three totally different bands
973
01:09:14,942 --> 01:09:16,319
what's the deal here?
974
01:09:20,657 --> 01:09:24,327
To me, my ears, those
are beautiful melodic,
975
01:09:24,619 --> 01:09:27,372
dense and melody
orchestrated albums.
976
01:09:27,664 --> 01:09:30,541
Almost symphonic,
they're so orchestrated.
977
01:09:32,543 --> 01:09:36,089
Those albums have
depth to them that are new.
978
01:09:41,969 --> 01:09:48,935
You'd be hard pressed to find a band that
occupies such a vastly different sonic identity.
979
01:09:49,227 --> 01:09:50,395
Over that period of time.
980
01:09:51,145 --> 01:09:55,692
But still remains very
much kind of in and of itself.
981
01:10:10,081 --> 01:10:13,793
Drainland is the record that
actually really sticks with me.
982
01:10:15,128 --> 01:10:17,797
I remember listening to
983
01:10:18,715 --> 01:10:20,007
You See Through Me
984
01:10:20,591 --> 01:10:24,595
Listening to that recording
about his alcoholism,
985
01:10:25,388 --> 01:10:29,142
I couldn't believe that this
frightening figure like Michael,
986
01:10:29,434 --> 01:10:33,688
is willing to make
himself that vulnerable.
987
01:10:42,989 --> 01:10:45,032
The alcohol was
getting out of control.
988
01:10:49,537 --> 01:10:53,207
I got to be somewhat infamous
there in the neighborhood
989
01:10:53,499 --> 01:10:57,837
because I would get so disgusted I'd
head out the door and I'd hit every spot.
990
01:10:58,129 --> 01:11:01,883
So I'd go into the bar looking for
him to try to get him to come home
991
01:11:02,175 --> 01:11:04,177
Sometimes he'd
come home at dawn.
992
01:11:04,469 --> 01:11:07,305
So that was a big
problem all the time.
993
01:11:19,776 --> 01:11:22,153
That was just an
example of me recording,
994
01:11:22,445 --> 01:11:24,363
because I wanted
to show him later
995
01:11:25,990 --> 01:11:27,283
what he was like.
996
01:11:32,580 --> 01:11:36,542
I drank a great deal. I
drank every day for 30 years,
997
01:11:36,834 --> 01:11:39,587
and I drank copious
amounts towards the end.
998
01:12:01,484 --> 01:12:05,988
He is being shown in
a very unflattering light.
999
01:12:07,031 --> 01:12:12,328
It's not like opening up your heart, it's like
dropping your pants and taking a shit in the room.
1000
01:12:12,620 --> 01:12:16,290
It's like "Oh my...
what's wrong with you".
1001
01:12:17,375 --> 01:12:19,210
It's kind of like,
that's the thing
1002
01:12:19,502 --> 01:12:22,880
He's standing up and saying,
"I'm kind of a shitty person."
1003
01:12:23,172 --> 01:12:25,633
I don't know anyone else
who has the nerve to do that.
1004
01:12:35,476 --> 01:12:39,021
I just happen to be a human,
I'm sorry, and I just used that
1005
01:12:39,313 --> 01:12:44,610
recording because it was an
interesting moment of humanity.
1006
01:12:48,030 --> 01:12:50,992
And then I captioned
it with the phrase,
1007
01:12:51,284 --> 01:12:57,331
You See Through Me as an honor to
her that this whole thing was placed there.
1008
01:12:57,623 --> 01:13:01,502
Having shown me what I was like, not
that of course I paid any attention to it.
1009
01:13:31,574 --> 01:13:36,120
I had a call from the studio.
My mother was not doing well
1010
01:13:36,412 --> 01:13:42,293
and I was taking care of her. I had
to go at a moment's notice to drive
1011
01:13:42,585 --> 01:13:46,756
to do this vocal and then drive
back super fast because of her.
1012
01:13:47,256 --> 01:13:52,678
And my dad had a small amount of
really old whiskey in a cedar chest.
1013
01:13:52,970 --> 01:13:55,389
So I grabbed that bottle
1014
01:13:55,681 --> 01:14:00,019
and I drove really fast to where
the studio was and tore up the steps
1015
01:14:00,311 --> 01:14:03,606
and it was literally
slide in there,
1016
01:14:03,898 --> 01:14:06,192
press record, and I
opened that bottle.
1017
01:14:06,484 --> 01:14:08,694
I just shot the whole thing back
1018
01:14:08,986 --> 01:14:10,589
to find that performer.
And he left that in there
1019
01:14:10,613 --> 01:14:12,281
And he left that in there.
1020
01:14:14,575 --> 01:14:17,244
That stuff was nasty. That
was me reacting to that.
1021
01:14:17,536 --> 01:14:21,540
I had to immediately go into
character and do that ferocious vocal.
1022
01:14:57,702 --> 01:15:01,205
I knew Soundtracks for the Blind
would be the last Swans album.
1023
01:15:01,747 --> 01:15:04,166
Kind of a summing
up and an expulsion
1024
01:15:04,458 --> 01:15:06,919
of all the ideas that had
happened previously.
1025
01:15:17,847 --> 01:15:20,850
Well, I've worked
on it for 15 years, and
1026
01:15:22,435 --> 01:15:25,730
it's never really given me any
brief rewards other than the music.
1027
01:15:26,522 --> 01:15:29,900
I still want to make music, but I
just think that the name Swans itself,
1028
01:15:30,609 --> 01:15:34,488
after having been around so long
in many journalists' minds or public
1029
01:15:34,780 --> 01:15:39,535
or even in my own mind, maybe it
makes preconceptions that might limit it.
1030
01:15:39,827 --> 01:15:43,456
To me is best to just to set it
aside and go onto other things.
1031
01:15:49,295 --> 01:15:53,132
The whole history of it, the
aesthetic of, approach of it,
1032
01:15:53,424 --> 01:15:55,468
the perception
of it in the public,
1033
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,387
everything was a
straitjacket at that point to me.
1034
01:15:58,679 --> 01:16:03,392
I just thought, it was time to end
it. It just couldn't go any further.
1035
01:16:03,684 --> 01:16:06,020
I just thought, as an
artist, it was time to...
1036
01:16:06,896 --> 01:16:09,231
kill it, so I did.
1037
01:16:11,108 --> 01:16:15,488
And simultaneously I guess, Jarboe
and my relationship was deteriorating.
1038
01:16:15,863 --> 01:16:17,823
And I just felt it
was time to just
1039
01:16:19,033 --> 01:16:20,576
cut the rope.
1040
01:16:23,996 --> 01:16:29,710
People would assume, because you broke up
as a couple, the band ended and I would say,
1041
01:16:30,127 --> 01:16:32,421
"No, the opposite happened."
1042
01:16:32,713 --> 01:16:35,299
It was the death of Swans
that ended the relationship,
1043
01:16:35,591 --> 01:16:38,344
because to me,
Swans was our child
1044
01:16:38,636 --> 01:16:40,471
and I loved the
group tremendously.
1045
01:16:40,763 --> 01:16:43,099
I mean, I moved heaven and earth
1046
01:16:43,390 --> 01:16:47,144
and left an entire life
of people that loved me
1047
01:16:47,436 --> 01:16:51,649
to go live under those conditions
and to go on those tours.
1048
01:16:57,279 --> 01:16:59,949
Now that was announced to me.
1049
01:17:00,241 --> 01:17:02,868
I was not asked my
opinion of about it.
1050
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:06,247
And because of that,
I had an internal rage.
1051
01:17:16,382 --> 01:17:21,387
Soundtracks for the Blind, where you get
that incredible exploration of soundscapes.
1052
01:17:21,679 --> 01:17:25,224
To me it was always a natural
progression that that work would happen.
1053
01:17:26,475 --> 01:17:29,645
To me it felt very
much like it fit.
1054
01:17:36,235 --> 01:17:38,737
There's an asthetic
principle behind it all.
1055
01:17:49,748 --> 01:17:51,792
It's kind of Michael
experimenting
1056
01:17:52,084 --> 01:17:54,003
with different ways of
delivering the message
1057
01:17:54,295 --> 01:17:56,547
and playing with different
musical approaches.
1058
01:18:07,349 --> 01:18:11,604
I started to think about the music as
soundtracks and I started to look at it as
1059
01:18:12,062 --> 01:18:15,441
always emerging or
evolving environments
1060
01:18:15,733 --> 01:18:17,526
that may or may not
have some words in them.
1061
01:18:18,652 --> 01:18:22,114
My inspiration was to make
soundtracks but not have a film.
1062
01:18:22,406 --> 01:18:26,368
That's what every record
from White Light on has been.
1063
01:18:27,870 --> 01:18:33,125
When it comes to the production it's really
about making a soundtrack of one big experience.
1064
01:18:33,417 --> 01:18:38,130
It's more about making a sonic environment
for people to live in for an hour or two.
1065
01:18:38,589 --> 01:18:43,260
[Jarboe's mother] Today I don't have a fever.
I feel about the same as I did yesterday.
1066
01:18:44,845 --> 01:18:47,973
The personal aspect of that
album with the recordings
1067
01:18:48,265 --> 01:18:51,143
made with our family members.
1068
01:18:51,435 --> 01:18:55,648
With my mom and his
dad who was going blind
1069
01:18:55,940 --> 01:18:59,902
[Michael' dad] I
am what they call
1070
01:19:00,819 --> 01:19:02,279
legally blind
1071
01:19:05,074 --> 01:19:07,117
Our parents were dying
1072
01:19:08,744 --> 01:19:12,539
or near death,
or losing their wits
1073
01:19:15,501 --> 01:19:19,046
and made a little
homage to them.
1074
01:19:25,010 --> 01:19:30,057
You know, making it, putting it together
and getting all the source material,
1075
01:19:30,349 --> 01:19:32,184
it was very, almost like
1076
01:19:33,435 --> 01:19:36,981
I don't wanna say
diary but a slice of life
1077
01:19:37,273 --> 01:19:42,403
of what was really going
on on a deep personal level.
1078
01:19:42,695 --> 01:19:47,032
[Michael's dad] They tried seeing together
and couldn't and told me I'd lose my eyesight.
1079
01:19:48,701 --> 01:19:53,497
I just looked at all the material as
being of potentially equal importance.
1080
01:19:54,415 --> 01:19:57,710
I had tons... I had
trucks of floppy discs
1081
01:19:58,002 --> 01:20:00,504
of samples I had
made over the yearrs.
1082
01:20:01,297 --> 01:20:08,012
Those were all fodders, everything was
available to use to make this sonic picture.
1083
01:20:43,130 --> 01:20:49,595
I can hear the influence of Swans across so many
different genres and so many different bands
1084
01:20:49,887 --> 01:20:52,890
and they don't
get the props for it
1085
01:20:55,768 --> 01:20:58,979
Often in music
there's no first prize
1086
01:20:59,271 --> 01:21:03,567
You don't get the prize for being
the first person to do a particular thing
1087
01:21:03,859 --> 01:21:06,862
or among the first people
to do a particular thing.
1088
01:21:16,413 --> 01:21:20,334
I think that was the right thing
to do in his life, at that time.
1089
01:21:20,626 --> 01:21:21,626
It took a lot of guts
1090
01:21:21,710 --> 01:21:26,173
to shut that thing down, to shut
Swans down at his age, at that point.
1091
01:21:36,350 --> 01:21:40,437
It made no sense to me
after so many years of struggle
1092
01:21:40,729 --> 01:21:43,148
when I saw things
getting better.
1093
01:21:44,233 --> 01:21:45,651
Everything was getting bigger,
1094
01:21:45,943 --> 01:21:49,071
the size of the audience,
the choice of venue,
1095
01:21:49,363 --> 01:21:52,449
just everything was getting
in my opinion so much better.
1096
01:22:21,854 --> 01:22:23,730
I'm gonna miss the music.
1097
01:22:26,733 --> 01:22:30,320
Thankfully I'll keep
listening to them
1098
01:22:30,904 --> 01:22:32,364
as long as CD's last.
1099
01:23:23,373 --> 01:23:28,921
It seemed like the relationship was
dissolving every night in one way or another
1100
01:23:29,213 --> 01:23:32,132
Not necessarily on
stage but around the stage
1101
01:23:32,424 --> 01:23:36,386
during the travelling
portion, soundchecks.
1102
01:23:36,678 --> 01:23:39,348
It was a very
frought relationship.
1103
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:41,850
I liken it to being stuck in a
1104
01:23:42,142 --> 01:23:45,103
weird kind of post
modern version of
1105
01:23:45,395 --> 01:23:47,439
Who's afraid of Virginia Wolf?
1106
01:23:47,731 --> 01:23:50,817
Just being there you felt
like you were in kind of like a
1107
01:23:51,109 --> 01:23:55,072
willing participant in this
psycho drama that was happening
1108
01:23:55,364 --> 01:23:59,826
so it was a lot to be in that band at that
time when the two of them were kind of
1109
01:24:00,994 --> 01:24:03,664
going slowly into
their separate ways.
1110
01:24:36,113 --> 01:24:40,492
In the life of a performer
there are these moments
1111
01:24:40,784 --> 01:24:43,579
that are magical
and transcendent.
1112
01:24:44,538 --> 01:24:49,418
When you're so
engrossed in that moment
1113
01:24:49,710 --> 01:24:53,213
and so at one, that you know
1114
01:24:53,505 --> 01:24:56,466
that you are experiencing
1115
01:24:56,758 --> 01:25:01,054
something that you will
remember for the rest of your life.
1116
01:25:07,185 --> 01:25:13,900
The I Crawled performance, that was in my mind,
a whole theater piece of multiple characters
1117
01:25:16,862 --> 01:25:21,783
to let those come to life from
almost like a seductive breathy voice
1118
01:25:32,419 --> 01:25:34,463
into a lost little girl.
1119
01:25:44,806 --> 01:25:46,933
And then come down
hard with the beast.
1120
01:25:48,435 --> 01:25:50,979
A very, very low sub voice,
1121
01:25:52,022 --> 01:25:57,194
which is a growl y,
deep, ferocious tonality.
1122
01:25:57,486 --> 01:26:00,280
I was completely
going into that role,
1123
01:26:00,572 --> 01:26:02,132
and I was really in
a trance like state
1124
01:26:02,366 --> 01:26:05,285
where I rolled my eyes
into the back of head,
1125
01:26:05,577 --> 01:26:07,788
I had no idea I was doing that.
1126
01:26:19,925 --> 01:26:23,345
I looked forward to that
brutal growl at the end.
1127
01:26:23,637 --> 01:26:25,847
I felt very powerful doing that.
1128
01:26:29,810 --> 01:26:33,230
I knew that I could go as
far with that baby as I wanted.
1129
01:26:33,522 --> 01:26:36,066
I gave it everything I had
1130
01:26:36,358 --> 01:26:40,320
because I knew at that point there
was nothing that could stop me.
1131
01:26:56,545 --> 01:27:02,008
The end was an homage to Michael,
referencing his voice on that song,
1132
01:27:02,300 --> 01:27:05,220
and going into the sub voice
deep, deep down in my chest.
1133
01:27:08,390 --> 01:27:10,642
This was my way of showing love
1134
01:27:11,143 --> 01:27:15,313
to the band that I loved.
1135
01:27:27,576 --> 01:27:35,000
It was poignant beyond description to be playing
to these huge, for us, audiences around the world,
1136
01:27:36,001 --> 01:27:39,796
but it was the last, it was the
end, and we knew it was ending.
1137
01:27:40,088 --> 01:27:42,257
For me, I cried on
stage a couple of times,
1138
01:27:42,549 --> 01:27:46,762
it was just sort of a bitter
moment, bitter and sweet of course.
1139
01:27:51,558 --> 01:27:55,479
It was the end and I didn't really know
what the hell was going to happen next.
1140
01:29:33,159 --> 01:29:37,080
At the very last performance
that Swans did at the Astoria
1141
01:29:38,707 --> 01:29:42,502
there was this extraordinary
moment at the end of the concert
1142
01:29:42,794 --> 01:29:46,882
when he actually
came out onto the stage
1143
01:29:47,173 --> 01:29:49,342
and he was completely naked.
1144
01:29:50,510 --> 01:29:55,849
It was to be a goodbye in a sense,
but a very powerful one, at that.
1145
01:29:56,308 --> 01:30:00,020
I thank you for your kind attention.
We leave you now forever. Goodbye.
1146
01:30:02,272 --> 01:30:04,983
I thought of Swans as a failure.
1147
01:30:07,027 --> 01:30:08,486
I thought I'd failed.
1148
01:30:40,977 --> 01:30:43,229
For those who are
wondering who I am,
1149
01:30:46,608 --> 01:30:48,610
I am no one.
1150
01:30:51,196 --> 01:30:54,449
I used to have this band
called Swans in New York,
1151
01:31:02,123 --> 01:31:07,087
but general attrition took
its course. That disbanded.
1152
01:31:09,464 --> 01:31:12,384
Now, I have a group
called Angels of Light.
1153
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:42,747
Michael, on the Young God site, blogs that he's just
been listening to this album by Devendra Banhart.
1154
01:31:43,039 --> 01:31:45,434
That was the first time I think
my name had been on the internet
1155
01:31:45,458 --> 01:31:47,419
I mean, I thought
"F♪♪k, I made it"
1156
01:31:47,711 --> 01:31:48,795
This is crazy!
1157
01:31:50,005 --> 01:31:52,924
He wrote me a letter
and he just said "Hey
1158
01:31:53,216 --> 01:31:56,136
do you wanna put
out this record?"
1159
01:31:57,345 --> 01:31:58,930
It changed my life.
1160
01:32:00,557 --> 01:32:04,352
I was so into Angels of light and
I was so into Michael as a writer
1161
01:32:04,644 --> 01:32:07,355
and so into at that point
already loving Swans
1162
01:32:15,697 --> 01:32:20,368
The songs would be based on the lyrics
and the basic acoustic guitar performance,
1163
01:32:20,660 --> 01:32:23,747
and that was a huge challenge
to me which made it interesting.
1164
01:32:24,039 --> 01:32:28,877
For me coming from the history of Swans
that was a huge challenge, so I pushed that.
1165
01:32:30,086 --> 01:32:35,508
The credo or the agenda was
always the song had to be good,
1166
01:32:36,009 --> 01:32:40,013
just played by me on acoustic guitar
and singing. It had to be good that way,
1167
01:32:40,305 --> 01:32:44,642
it should not require
anything else besides that
1168
01:32:44,934 --> 01:32:48,063
to be convincing and
hopefully powerful.
1169
01:32:49,189 --> 01:32:52,609
That's where it started and
then I orchestrated on top of that.
1170
01:33:09,709 --> 01:33:15,006
Angels of Light unfortunately was a failure
in terms of reaching a large amount of people.
1171
01:33:35,693 --> 01:33:39,572
[Jarboe] He never wanted to be
a romantic hero or be worshipped.
1172
01:33:40,865 --> 01:33:43,243
This is going [back] to
the whole punk attitude.
1173
01:33:43,535 --> 01:33:45,161
Refuse to be put on a pedestal.
1174
01:33:45,453 --> 01:33:47,413
Refuse to be a star.
1175
01:33:49,707 --> 01:33:54,129
Michael called in the end of 2008 one
day out of the blue and it was just like,
1176
01:33:54,420 --> 01:33:59,175
"Hey, Todd, I'm writing
songs and they're kind of angry.
1177
01:33:59,467 --> 01:34:02,220
I haven't written any angry
songs like this in a long time
1178
01:34:02,512 --> 01:34:05,598
and I'm actually thinking
about calling it Swans again."
1179
01:34:11,354 --> 01:34:13,690
I guess I viewed
it as a last gasp,
1180
01:34:13,982 --> 01:34:15,733
the last chance to do this
1181
01:34:16,025 --> 01:34:19,529
and I wanted it to be as
forward-thinking and as challenging
1182
01:34:19,821 --> 01:34:23,074
to both myself and the
audience as possible
1183
01:34:23,366 --> 01:34:27,829
and to lead us to a place we didn't
expect to go musically at that moment,
1184
01:34:29,122 --> 01:34:31,416
but try to do it
in a way that is
1185
01:34:32,208 --> 01:34:35,753
in the moment and not
nostalgic, for God's sake.
1186
01:34:37,088 --> 01:34:39,048
I think Swans
needed to come back.
1187
01:34:40,300 --> 01:34:42,969
They had unfinished business.
1188
01:34:44,220 --> 01:34:48,266
Michael staked absolutely
everything on a fresh roll of the dice,
1189
01:34:49,017 --> 01:34:51,311
on a complete creative gamble.
1190
01:35:20,298 --> 01:35:23,843
I was very nervous, but for someone
who has had a lot of disappointments,
1191
01:35:24,135 --> 01:35:27,013
I was fully prepared to
tank and fail completely,
1192
01:35:27,472 --> 01:35:29,599
and so because I
was prepared for that,
1193
01:35:29,974 --> 01:35:32,769
the potential for catastrophe
did not have as much weight.
1194
01:35:33,061 --> 01:35:36,189
So, when it started
to become successful,
1195
01:35:36,481 --> 01:35:38,191
I had no expectations for that,
1196
01:35:38,483 --> 01:35:40,860
but when it started to become
successful, it was wonderful,
1197
01:35:41,152 --> 01:35:43,363
and I just appreciate it
1198
01:35:44,030 --> 01:35:46,491
and don't count
on that ever, at all.
1199
01:35:50,203 --> 01:35:52,163
I think Michael
has done something
1200
01:35:52,455 --> 01:35:54,666
which very, very few artists do,
1201
01:35:54,958 --> 01:35:59,087
which is that he has
continued to stay true to himself.
1202
01:36:08,554 --> 01:36:11,641
It's a spiritual journey
from the early 1980s to now.
1203
01:36:12,850 --> 01:36:14,602
It's a pure sound,
1204
01:36:15,311 --> 01:36:18,147
and the purity of what
he's doing is just like really,
1205
01:36:18,439 --> 01:36:21,067
I don't know whether
it's healing or what it is,
1206
01:36:21,359 --> 01:36:22,799
but you know, there's
something there
1207
01:36:23,486 --> 01:36:25,280
that's not available
anywhere else.
1208
01:36:35,415 --> 01:36:37,333
When I saw the Swans
play for the first time,
1209
01:36:37,625 --> 01:36:40,169
it was at the Bowery
Ballroom and I'll never forget it,
1210
01:36:40,461 --> 01:36:43,464
because usually before a
band starts there's this sort of,
1211
01:36:43,756 --> 01:36:45,925
pre-show mix tape
that they have playing
1212
01:36:46,217 --> 01:36:46,718
or something like this
1213
01:36:47,010 --> 01:36:48,650
that people are just
kind of mingling to,
1214
01:36:49,095 --> 01:36:52,140
but Swans, they just
had a tone playing,
1215
01:36:52,432 --> 01:36:54,767
and it was just a
really loud tone.
1216
01:36:59,856 --> 01:37:02,317
So, instead of being
able to sort of talk over
1217
01:37:02,608 --> 01:37:04,277
and mingle with
whoever you're next to,
1218
01:37:04,652 --> 01:37:07,030
you just were immediately,
you know, slightly brainwashed
1219
01:37:07,322 --> 01:37:08,906
and just by playing that tone,
1220
01:37:09,198 --> 01:37:12,452
they took that venue and they
made it theirs, like immediately.
1221
01:37:12,744 --> 01:37:14,680
And so everybody was
just blissed out on this tone,
1222
01:37:14,704 --> 01:37:16,748
and everybody was
like, yes, this is Swans.
1223
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:18,416
I'll never forget it.
1224
01:37:22,837 --> 01:37:24,380
Okay, it's time to go.
1225
01:37:30,762 --> 01:37:35,767
I just thought that before I died, I
wanted to experience the kind of
1226
01:37:36,059 --> 01:37:40,021
maelstrom, the swirling
tornado of sound again.
1227
01:37:40,313 --> 01:37:42,231
I wanted to be inside
that sound again.
1228
01:37:55,870 --> 01:38:00,666
I remember seeing the Swans
show at Alexandra Palace
1229
01:38:01,084 --> 01:38:03,378
and I remember
thinking after that, that's it,
1230
01:38:03,669 --> 01:38:07,382
I'm going home, I've
seen what I need to see.
1231
01:38:17,558 --> 01:38:20,812
When I listen to Swans,
especially when I see them live,
1232
01:38:21,521 --> 01:38:23,564
I feel like I'm seeing the
whole history of music
1233
01:38:23,856 --> 01:38:25,233
being replayed in front of me.
1234
01:38:25,983 --> 01:38:27,423
It's not about what
they're playing.
1235
01:38:27,652 --> 01:38:29,487
It's just a feeling I have.
1236
01:38:45,002 --> 01:38:47,713
Alexandra Palace,
Gira kind of looked like
1237
01:38:48,005 --> 01:38:49,424
he was in a trance.
1238
01:38:49,715 --> 01:38:54,429
He just kind of started
crying like a baby,
1239
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:57,515
and at first people
were kind of sniggering.
1240
01:39:05,106 --> 01:39:06,399
There was no music,
1241
01:39:06,732 --> 01:39:08,484
and it was becoming
really uncomfortable
1242
01:39:08,776 --> 01:39:11,237
and then you noticed that
people stopped laughing.
1243
01:39:11,529 --> 01:39:13,889
They weren't smiling, they
were just like, what is he doing?
1244
01:39:14,115 --> 01:39:16,033
And suddenly this kind of cry
1245
01:39:16,325 --> 01:39:19,078
developed into
just like a scream.
1246
01:39:20,997 --> 01:39:23,082
Like this kind of
human scream of agony.
1247
01:39:32,133 --> 01:39:33,968
And then just the
song kicked in.
1248
01:39:38,764 --> 01:39:42,685
That was so bizarre,
and so moving, you know?
1249
01:39:42,977 --> 01:39:45,271
I've never see a band do
anything like that before.
1250
01:40:24,310 --> 01:40:26,062
Performance is important to me.
1251
01:40:26,354 --> 01:40:30,149
I like the fact of
music being a struggle,
1252
01:40:30,942 --> 01:40:33,819
being a physical
commitment to make it happen,
1253
01:40:34,403 --> 01:40:36,781
trying to figure out
how to make something
1254
01:40:37,865 --> 01:40:41,160
undeniable happen, just
through your own physical energy.
1255
01:40:46,999 --> 01:40:51,295
To me, just being in there
and just expelling sweat
1256
01:40:51,587 --> 01:40:54,090
and just feeling
your body torn down
1257
01:40:54,382 --> 01:40:58,803
as the music's happening,
it's kind of like penitential.
1258
01:40:59,095 --> 01:41:00,555
It feels right.
1259
01:41:05,601 --> 01:41:08,354
It's basically music
that you want to play,
1260
01:41:08,646 --> 01:41:10,815
you want to write,
but you never dare do,
1261
01:41:11,107 --> 01:41:12,817
because in order
to achieve that,
1262
01:41:13,109 --> 01:41:17,238
you need to have to
lived beyond consensus,
1263
01:41:17,530 --> 01:41:21,033
lived beyond expectations,
you're absolutely mature
1264
01:41:21,325 --> 01:41:25,413
and you are ready to express
yourself with no compromise.
1265
01:41:34,005 --> 01:41:37,550
[Norman Westberg] I had no idea that
Swans would have these kind of legs.
1266
01:41:38,718 --> 01:41:41,762
I felt that back in the day
we were doing something...
1267
01:41:42,597 --> 01:41:43,597
right.
1268
01:41:44,015 --> 01:41:45,474
You know, making a stand.
1269
01:41:45,933 --> 01:41:47,685
I felt it was important.
1270
01:42:00,948 --> 01:42:04,660
Michael's not a normal person. I
mean, to have that kind of drive.
1271
01:42:05,244 --> 01:42:06,495
You're not a normal person.
1272
01:42:32,647 --> 01:42:34,857
Michael, he's always had zero
1273
01:42:35,149 --> 01:42:38,069
tolerance for anything
that will get in the way of
1274
01:42:38,361 --> 01:42:41,113
him being able to do this.
1275
01:42:42,073 --> 01:42:44,659
Michael's always
whipping the sound
1276
01:42:44,950 --> 01:42:48,746
into a fury and into
an ecstatic release
1277
01:42:49,246 --> 01:42:53,125
of which, as an audience
member, I had to surrender to
1278
01:42:53,417 --> 01:42:57,004
or it would have been too
intense and probably driven me out.
1279
01:43:00,257 --> 01:43:01,842
That music is not for the weak.
1280
01:43:21,028 --> 01:43:23,322
It is about surrendering
to the sound,
1281
01:43:23,614 --> 01:43:26,200
because it's like, why fight it?
1282
01:43:26,492 --> 01:43:28,812
You can't fight it, you know,
just like, surrender instead.
1283
01:43:48,723 --> 01:43:54,061
The music becomes like a
vortex that sucs you in and
1284
01:43:54,770 --> 01:43:57,106
it doesn't let you go
until the music stops.
1285
01:43:59,608 --> 01:44:03,696
You become an animal
that consists of all of us
1286
01:44:03,988 --> 01:44:05,364
You could call it a beast.
1287
01:44:24,759 --> 01:44:26,260
There are moments
during a Swans show
1288
01:44:26,552 --> 01:44:28,596
that you're wrapped
up in that ecstasy.
1289
01:44:29,930 --> 01:44:31,557
The stage becomes
hallowed ground.
1290
01:44:31,849 --> 01:44:35,895
For a very brief moment, it
becomes a spiritual ceremony.
1291
01:44:37,730 --> 01:44:40,941
It's Michael shocking
us into presence.
1292
01:44:41,233 --> 01:44:44,069
I've seen him go into
these trance-like states,
1293
01:44:44,361 --> 01:44:45,441
where he's punching himself
1294
01:44:45,488 --> 01:44:47,656
and slapping himself
and hitting himself,
1295
01:44:49,325 --> 01:44:51,410
and he's doing that to
shake himself out of himself.
1296
01:44:51,702 --> 01:44:53,222
He's doing that to
get out of the way.
1297
01:45:06,592 --> 01:45:13,849
Behind that initial, very male and
aggressive and some of the brutality of Swans
1298
01:45:14,141 --> 01:45:17,478
there's something very very
sensitive, very very beautiful
1299
01:45:18,854 --> 01:45:20,397
and very very feminine.
1300
01:45:21,607 --> 01:45:23,609
Michael always
1301
01:45:24,944 --> 01:45:27,029
making a play for transcendence.
1302
01:45:27,321 --> 01:45:30,783
Reaching for divinity
reaching for peace.
1303
01:45:31,075 --> 01:45:33,661
I think it really is Michael
reaching for peace.
1304
01:45:33,953 --> 01:45:36,831
And you can see
it in the live shows
1305
01:45:37,915 --> 01:45:40,417
That's where the
shamanic quality of his
1306
01:45:40,709 --> 01:45:42,127
performing comes into play.
1307
01:45:42,419 --> 01:45:45,381
He's trying to claw
his way into heaven.
1308
01:45:49,677 --> 01:45:51,387
It's like self-immolation.
1309
01:45:51,679 --> 01:45:53,389
He's trying to
light himself on fire,
1310
01:45:53,681 --> 01:46:00,229
to just be free of the bondage
of this sack of fucking flesh.
1311
01:46:03,107 --> 01:46:04,775
It's a beautiful thing to see.
1312
01:46:19,582 --> 01:46:23,669
I've thought about
why that volume
1313
01:46:23,961 --> 01:46:29,592
two and a half hour bludgeoning
is so cathartic for people
1314
01:46:30,968 --> 01:46:34,138
and that I think
gets into the realm of
1315
01:46:34,430 --> 01:46:40,227
neuroscience that I am
not qualified to speak about.
1316
01:47:15,930 --> 01:47:18,849
Swans now, it's a minimalist
symphony orchestra
1317
01:47:19,141 --> 01:47:24,229
that happens to use amplified
instruments and goes to 132 dB.
1318
01:47:24,813 --> 01:47:31,820
That volume is part of what allows
what we do to transcend just music.
1319
01:47:36,367 --> 01:47:40,579
Michael wants to build the
mountain as big as he can make it.
1320
01:47:41,288 --> 01:47:43,874
It's not a wall of sound,
it's a mountain of sound.
1321
01:47:44,166 --> 01:47:47,711
It's a mountain range, it's
like Mount Everest of sound.
1322
01:47:57,388 --> 01:48:02,101
Swans, they are so massive but also
minimalistic in the way they compose music
1323
01:48:02,393 --> 01:48:06,647
using the same chords
over and over and over again
1324
01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:12,236
but it always grows into
something unpredicted and unknown
1325
01:48:17,157 --> 01:48:20,577
and the sound keeps changing all
the time so you have to be very present
1326
01:48:20,869 --> 01:48:24,456
and you have to get into
this meditative state of mind
1327
01:48:24,748 --> 01:48:27,167
and just be absorbed.
1328
01:48:34,675 --> 01:48:36,035
Much of the material
does not have
1329
01:48:36,176 --> 01:48:38,012
a time structure
or rhythm, even,
1330
01:48:38,595 --> 01:48:41,056
is that it's necessary
for me to conduct
1331
01:48:42,641 --> 01:48:43,976
the waves of sound.
1332
01:48:44,435 --> 01:48:46,979
So, I've discovered that if I
use my arms and my body,
1333
01:48:47,271 --> 01:48:48,915
it's almost like I'm
playing an instrument,
1334
01:48:48,939 --> 01:48:50,524
but it's five other people.
1335
01:48:50,816 --> 01:48:54,028
I can move it, like a classical
music conductor would
1336
01:48:54,319 --> 01:48:57,364
move the dynamics of
the sound, with my body.
1337
01:49:05,873 --> 01:49:07,332
Those are things I do naturally
1338
01:49:07,624 --> 01:49:10,377
because the music kind of
forces me to do those things,
1339
01:49:10,669 --> 01:49:11,669
and so I do them.
1340
01:49:12,171 --> 01:49:15,090
To me it's all
about just atomizing
1341
01:49:15,382 --> 01:49:17,760
and having the music
just completely erase you
1342
01:49:19,011 --> 01:49:21,430
for a brief moment of ecstasy.
1343
01:49:31,315 --> 01:49:33,400
They demand so
much of an audience.
1344
01:49:33,692 --> 01:49:36,111
They demand a
complete submission.
1345
01:49:37,738 --> 01:49:41,075
Michael as a
performer really forces
1346
01:49:41,366 --> 01:49:43,243
everybody in the room into a
1347
01:49:43,827 --> 01:49:45,496
eviscerated space
1348
01:49:45,788 --> 01:49:46,914
where time and
1349
01:49:48,082 --> 01:49:53,295
space itself becomes so
irrelevant to the experience.
1350
01:49:57,508 --> 01:50:00,803
Michael has suffered
trauma when he was younger,
1351
01:50:01,470 --> 01:50:05,265
physical, spiritual,
psychological,
1352
01:50:05,808 --> 01:50:08,268
and I think if you
look at the arc
1353
01:50:08,560 --> 01:50:12,272
that his songwriting and
music-making career has taken,
1354
01:50:12,564 --> 01:50:14,691
it goes through various stages,
1355
01:50:15,150 --> 01:50:16,944
almost like the stages of grief,
1356
01:50:17,236 --> 01:50:19,655
but I would say these
are like the stages of...
1357
01:50:20,614 --> 01:50:21,614
existentialism.
1358
01:50:24,243 --> 01:50:27,538
You start off with trauma
can induce this idea that
1359
01:50:27,830 --> 01:50:29,623
life is random,
1360
01:50:29,915 --> 01:50:32,793
it is violent and
it has no purpose.
1361
01:50:33,293 --> 01:50:35,671
And often horrific things happen
1362
01:50:35,963 --> 01:50:38,841
to people who are innocent
or have done nothing wrong
1363
01:50:40,843 --> 01:50:44,680
and it can take a lifetime to
reconcile yourself to this fact
1364
01:50:45,264 --> 01:50:50,686
and I think you can trace almost
like a history or time scale of how
1365
01:50:50,978 --> 01:50:55,482
you deal with existential
trauma over the case of a lifetime.
1366
01:50:56,275 --> 01:51:01,655
And now what I think you've
got in the autumn of their career
1367
01:51:01,947 --> 01:51:05,742
is something that's closer
to almost like Zen Buddism
1368
01:51:06,535 --> 01:51:09,288
You've got an
acceptance of like, yeah
1369
01:51:09,580 --> 01:51:13,959
life is random, it is
violent, and terrible things
1370
01:51:14,251 --> 01:51:18,005
kind of happen to people
who don't deserve it, or also
1371
01:51:18,755 --> 01:51:22,676
an acceptance of this fact
and an ability to celebrate it.
1372
01:51:24,178 --> 01:51:27,181
At the core of it now is a
celebration of life, I think,
1373
01:51:27,472 --> 01:51:29,183
and the possibility of love,
1374
01:51:29,474 --> 01:51:32,144
where you'd be
hard-pressed to find that
1375
01:51:32,436 --> 01:51:35,480
in Swans' early
music, though, I think.
1376
01:51:41,403 --> 01:51:43,655
Michael's creating a world
1377
01:51:44,072 --> 01:51:46,366
that takes you
outside of yourself.
1378
01:51:48,827 --> 01:51:52,289
You're transcending
yourself and your body
1379
01:51:52,581 --> 01:51:55,250
and the music
takes on a dimension
1380
01:51:57,169 --> 01:52:00,297
and I don't think it's any
accident that it has that dimension
1381
01:52:00,589 --> 01:52:04,801
with the volume, with
adding that dimension of feel
1382
01:52:05,093 --> 01:52:10,140
hitting you so loud, you actually
feel that resonating through your body
1383
01:52:11,141 --> 01:52:14,937
The music is so
physical, so circular.
1384
01:52:15,229 --> 01:52:16,939
You fall into it.
1385
01:52:17,856 --> 01:52:21,443
It's not there, it's all around
you and you're falling into it.
1386
01:52:21,944 --> 01:52:25,113
Definitely, that's
the very heart of it.
1387
01:52:42,714 --> 01:52:45,717
We know we're making
something that's strong
1388
01:52:46,009 --> 01:52:47,803
and has truth in it,
1389
01:52:48,095 --> 01:52:51,014
and then seeing
an audience actually
1390
01:52:51,306 --> 01:52:54,434
receive that 'SonicTruth',
to quote Thurston [Moore],
1391
01:52:54,726 --> 01:52:56,353
seeing it going
into their psyches
1392
01:52:56,645 --> 01:53:00,023
and having them
really feel the kind of joy
1393
01:53:00,315 --> 01:53:02,359
that we experience
while were playing it,
1394
01:53:02,651 --> 01:53:04,361
is so incredibly rewarding.
1395
01:54:49,174 --> 01:54:51,426
Picture a snake moving along,
1396
01:54:51,718 --> 01:54:54,638
it's just, that's the music,
the snake just moves along
1397
01:54:54,930 --> 01:54:56,973
and finds new ground as it goes,
1398
01:54:57,265 --> 01:54:58,600
and that's how it's developed,
1399
01:54:58,892 --> 01:55:01,603
but it's just allowing
yourself to be enveloped
1400
01:55:02,938 --> 01:55:06,691
by the sound and just letting
the sound push you forward.
1401
01:55:39,975 --> 01:55:43,812
I'm scared, make me
not scared, Charles.
1402
01:55:44,104 --> 01:55:46,064
My children need this
to be a good record.
1403
01:55:47,732 --> 01:55:50,360
It's on you, my children's
welfare is on you.
1404
01:56:16,011 --> 01:56:18,847
With each chord change,
with the same tuning,
1405
01:56:19,139 --> 01:56:20,974
so at the beginning...
1406
01:56:21,766 --> 01:56:24,436
♪ Glittering hands ♪
1407
01:56:42,329 --> 01:56:45,540
Michael is not really a musician
1408
01:56:45,832 --> 01:56:47,876
in the way that I
think about a musician.
1409
01:56:48,168 --> 01:56:51,671
He's like a curator of noise,
or sound, or something.
1410
01:56:55,175 --> 01:56:56,676
The music is the
sound of the id.
1411
01:56:57,010 --> 01:56:58,762
This is what Swans
is all about to me.
1412
01:56:59,262 --> 01:57:00,931
It's something...
1413
01:57:01,765 --> 01:57:07,020
that can't be attained in words, is what he's
looking for, and therein lies the challenge.
1414
01:57:07,521 --> 01:57:10,649
It's a feeling and the only
way to understand that feeling
1415
01:57:10,941 --> 01:57:12,984
is to try to get
inside of his head.
1416
01:57:13,568 --> 01:57:16,571
But that to me is exactly
what makes Swans work.
1417
01:57:16,863 --> 01:57:18,240
He surrounds himself with these
1418
01:57:18,532 --> 01:57:22,327
intellectual musicians that
he beats to a bloody pulp.
1419
01:57:29,292 --> 01:57:30,335
It's just D-A-D
1420
01:57:31,461 --> 01:57:32,461
Right?
1421
01:57:33,171 --> 01:57:35,507
Low D, then A
1422
01:57:37,425 --> 01:57:38,552
then a high D
1423
01:58:05,745 --> 01:58:10,959
Thor, try dealing that last
downbeat on the big drum too,
1424
01:58:11,251 --> 01:58:14,254
so itf'd be...
da-da-dun dun — dun
1425
01:58:14,546 --> 01:58:20,760
Michael is not a fearless
human, but he is a fearless artist.
1426
01:58:21,052 --> 01:58:26,182
Michael is more like
a big picture visionary
1427
01:58:26,474 --> 01:58:33,565
with just a strange world view that
comes across in everything that is Swans.
1428
01:58:44,075 --> 01:58:45,160
It's hard.
1429
01:58:46,745 --> 01:58:49,122
These are some
lyrics that I wrote
1430
01:58:49,414 --> 01:58:50,814
when I was sitting
at my typewriter
1431
01:58:51,041 --> 01:58:53,084
in my rehearsal space in 1982
1432
01:58:53,376 --> 01:58:55,062
and Sonic Youth asked
me if they can use them
1433
01:58:55,086 --> 01:58:57,297
and I said, sure. It's
called World Looks Red.
1434
01:58:57,589 --> 01:58:59,132
It was a popular song they did.
1435
01:58:59,424 --> 01:59:00,842
It's on Confusion
is Sex, I think.
1436
01:59:01,635 --> 01:59:04,721
I haven't looked at them or
thought about them in years
1437
01:59:05,013 --> 01:59:08,475
that I was playing this
song, I'm gonna use them on.
1438
01:59:08,767 --> 01:59:10,518
I thought geez, I'll
just use those words.
1439
01:59:58,775 --> 02:00:00,461
Let's start with you
coming in before I sing,
1440
02:00:00,485 --> 02:00:01,945
doing what you just ended with.
1441
02:00:02,237 --> 02:00:04,948
It needs something else, it
just sounds, again, like Samba,
1442
02:00:05,240 --> 02:00:07,742
and I'm this close
to just ditching it.
1443
02:00:08,034 --> 02:00:10,203
I'm playing the, naturally
I would play the G
1444
02:00:10,495 --> 02:00:13,498
in the break there,
my part is in between.
1445
02:00:18,169 --> 02:00:22,006
Norman, I think you did,
when we played it yesterday,
1446
02:00:22,298 --> 02:00:24,759
I believe that you did
that strumming like that,
1447
02:00:25,051 --> 02:00:29,013
a little more often, I think that
added a lot of tension, which I like.
1448
02:00:30,557 --> 02:00:32,308
Yeah, that's the part I liked.
1449
02:00:34,769 --> 02:00:36,414
So, let's try to see
if we get in the song.
1450
02:00:36,438 --> 02:00:38,690
Otherwise, we're just
gonna ditch the song.
1451
02:01:19,022 --> 02:01:22,025
Working with him has challenges.
1452
02:01:22,317 --> 02:01:24,736
It's hard to understand
him sometimes, you know,
1453
02:01:25,028 --> 02:01:26,946
I guess the hardest
part is really like
1454
02:01:27,238 --> 02:01:29,574
just the communication,
misunderstandings
1455
02:01:29,866 --> 02:01:32,327
and the little details
and the nuances
1456
02:01:32,619 --> 02:01:37,582
that make it difficult to
communicate such weird concepts.
1457
02:01:37,874 --> 02:01:39,794
He just says conceptually
what he wants you to do
1458
02:01:40,084 --> 02:01:42,545
and it can be difficult,
and he can get frustrated
1459
02:01:42,837 --> 02:01:44,717
and everybody can get
frustrated in the process.
1460
02:01:49,969 --> 02:01:51,971
- Start lower.
- I know, I did.
1461
02:01:52,263 --> 02:01:53,263
- That's your lowest E?
1462
02:01:53,473 --> 02:01:54,974
- That's my, what
do you mean by low?
1463
02:01:55,266 --> 02:01:56,935
- Lower.
- I start lower?
1464
02:01:57,227 --> 02:01:58,394
On this final E.
1465
02:01:58,686 --> 02:01:59,771
That's my higher E.
1466
02:02:00,063 --> 02:02:02,816
You start lower on the final E.
1467
02:02:03,107 --> 02:02:04,960
- You do, you do.
- You said the opposite yesterday.
1468
02:02:04,984 --> 02:02:07,320
No, 'cause it needs to
go somewhere, start lower.
1469
02:02:07,695 --> 02:02:08,738
- Ready?
- I need...
1470
02:02:09,030 --> 02:02:10,424
- Ready, one...
- I need to understand.
1471
02:02:10,448 --> 02:02:12,134
- I need to understand.
- This is what you did.
1472
02:02:12,158 --> 02:02:13,598
I'm just confused,
explain it to me.
1473
02:02:13,743 --> 02:02:15,453
Go down the neck,
play your lowest E.
1474
02:02:16,454 --> 02:02:18,516
Right, that's where your
chord was, somewhere like that,
1475
02:02:18,540 --> 02:02:19,780
and you had a chord down there.
1476
02:02:19,916 --> 02:02:21,956
And then you do that for
a bit then you go up higher
1477
02:02:22,043 --> 02:02:23,395
"cause we're staying
on this chord now."
1478
02:02:23,419 --> 02:02:24,480
That's right, I went
to the high chord...
1479
02:02:24,504 --> 02:02:25,588
- Okay.
- Wait, wait, wait.
1480
02:02:25,880 --> 02:02:27,465
No, it's fine,
whatever you want.
1481
02:02:29,384 --> 02:02:32,220
It's fine, I'm not arguing
with you, do what you want.
1482
02:02:32,512 --> 02:02:34,031
Okay, let's just go
without him, ready?
1483
02:02:34,055 --> 02:02:35,223
No, no.
1484
02:02:36,724 --> 02:02:38,804
He'll be back in a minute,
he'll be back in a minute.
1485
02:02:39,894 --> 02:02:41,688
We gotta get this
straightened out.
1486
02:02:41,980 --> 02:02:44,566
What? What am I supposed
to say, that's the case!
1487
02:02:46,067 --> 02:02:49,404
I think I could've
explained it to him.
1488
02:02:59,622 --> 02:03:01,791
I get caught up in the
heat of the moment
1489
02:03:02,083 --> 02:03:03,643
and it's almost like
yelling, you know,
1490
02:03:03,710 --> 02:03:05,003
arguing with family members.
1491
02:03:06,462 --> 02:03:11,384
Michael doesn't compromise,
with us, as the band too.
1492
02:03:11,676 --> 02:03:13,928
He doesn't let things pass.
1493
02:03:14,345 --> 02:03:15,930
If there's something
that bothers him,
1494
02:03:16,222 --> 02:03:18,474
he voices it and it gets fixed
1495
02:03:19,017 --> 02:03:21,769
because we're all
adults here, we'll fix it.
1496
02:03:33,364 --> 02:03:34,532
That's the best yet.
1497
02:03:35,366 --> 02:03:36,844
I don't want you to
ever lose that feel.
1498
02:03:36,868 --> 02:03:38,286
That's totally
fucking righteous.
1499
02:03:39,871 --> 02:03:41,915
It sounds sonically great, too.
1500
02:03:42,707 --> 02:03:45,126
Michael sometimes has
a reputation as being...
1501
02:03:45,835 --> 02:03:47,086
difficult.
1502
02:03:47,378 --> 02:03:50,715
Oh, he's very difficult,
but you know, this is,
1503
02:03:51,007 --> 02:03:52,926
I learned this through
working with Nick Cave,
1504
02:03:53,217 --> 02:03:54,761
or The Cramps or
Jeffrey Lee Pierce.
1505
02:03:56,179 --> 02:03:57,764
All of these people
I've worked with,
1506
02:03:58,056 --> 02:04:00,058
and Michael is one
person I've worked with,
1507
02:04:00,558 --> 02:04:04,062
they share this
very admirable trait
1508
02:04:04,354 --> 02:04:07,565
of defending their
vision above all.
1509
02:04:08,775 --> 02:04:11,069
There's just no
room for compromise.
1510
02:04:11,361 --> 02:04:12,695
It's a life's work.
1511
02:04:12,987 --> 02:04:14,572
Stay on the E.
1512
02:04:14,864 --> 02:04:18,368
Add a little eh-eh
in the Es, okay?
1513
02:04:19,243 --> 02:04:20,244
Better feel.
1514
02:04:20,536 --> 02:04:23,581
You could pare it down
even a little more, just drama.
1515
02:04:23,873 --> 02:04:25,473
You were playing
more dramatically, too.
1516
02:04:25,625 --> 02:04:27,665
Then, come in after all
that thing is what it needs.
1517
02:04:56,447 --> 02:04:59,075
We do this thing
before all of our shows
1518
02:04:59,367 --> 02:05:04,247
where all six of us hug each
member before we go on,
1519
02:05:04,539 --> 02:05:07,333
and it's a huge
important part of the show
1520
02:05:07,625 --> 02:05:09,145
because sometimes
when you're touring,
1521
02:05:09,377 --> 02:05:11,921
the day is just
miserable and boring
1522
02:05:12,213 --> 02:05:15,091
and maybe you're getting
on each other's nerves a bit,
1523
02:05:15,383 --> 02:05:17,802
but then there's that
hug right before the show,
1524
02:05:18,428 --> 02:05:19,721
and it's like, remember,
1525
02:05:20,013 --> 02:05:22,974
we're here to do this
thing for these people.
1526
02:05:23,266 --> 02:05:27,687
And it's good, important
work, you know.
1527
02:05:28,604 --> 02:05:32,442
Swans have always been
an epic sounding band.
1528
02:05:34,694 --> 02:05:40,908
And now finally the music
has literally an epic form.
1529
02:05:42,618 --> 02:05:48,374
They're big pieces
with lots of layers.
1530
02:06:09,353 --> 02:06:11,773
It is ear-damagingly loud.
1531
02:06:12,982 --> 02:06:15,693
On stage it is, doing
it every night, yes.
1532
02:06:16,235 --> 02:06:18,488
That's another
reason to wind it down.
1533
02:06:19,822 --> 02:06:21,824
I'd like to hear my
children's voices.
1534
02:06:24,494 --> 02:06:26,120
Michael wants to
stand in the middle
1535
02:06:26,412 --> 02:06:28,122
of the maelstrom of the sound
1536
02:06:29,332 --> 02:06:32,877
and I don't know how
he's done that for so long
1537
02:06:33,169 --> 02:06:34,354
and still has any hearing left
1538
02:06:34,378 --> 02:06:35,538
because I have hearing damage
1539
02:06:35,671 --> 02:06:39,092
and I can't handle
loud volume for too long.
1540
02:06:39,383 --> 02:06:42,512
There's these operations they
can do now for ear damage.
1541
02:06:42,804 --> 02:06:45,014
They replace every little hair.
1542
02:06:45,640 --> 02:06:47,767
I would like it, my
hearing's fucked.
1543
02:06:48,059 --> 02:06:49,685
[JG Thirlwell] Do
you have tinnitus?
1544
02:06:50,686 --> 02:06:51,771
I'm beyond it.
1545
02:06:53,397 --> 02:06:55,108
But did you ever have tinnitus?
1546
02:06:55,775 --> 02:06:57,735
Not until this
version of this band.
1547
02:06:58,027 --> 02:07:01,572
Yeah, because you know you can
have hearing loss without tinnitus
1548
02:07:02,198 --> 02:07:03,616
Oh, I have tremendous
hearing loss.
1549
02:07:04,492 --> 02:07:06,744
Every once in a while, I
get the musical note thing.
1550
02:07:07,662 --> 02:07:10,289
But generally, it's like
the waves of the sea,
1551
02:07:10,581 --> 02:07:11,581
it's just
1552
02:07:12,083 --> 02:07:14,168
If I'm in silence,
it's like just...
1553
02:07:14,460 --> 02:07:15,460
Oh, so you do have that.
1554
02:07:22,802 --> 02:07:26,264
We had a great bonding moment
the last time they came to Atlanta
1555
02:07:26,556 --> 02:07:28,766
about everything that
was going on in his life.
1556
02:07:29,183 --> 02:07:33,980
We began to reattach as friends
and really have the connection again.
1557
02:07:41,445 --> 02:07:45,366
For Michael to ask me to come
and to sing Blood On My Hands,
1558
02:07:45,658 --> 02:07:48,870
it was a very healing
moment for me, so it was
1559
02:07:49,162 --> 02:07:51,956
a very very important gesture.
1560
02:08:01,424 --> 02:08:04,886
I had a tremendous
spiritual bond
1561
02:08:05,178 --> 02:08:07,889
and downright love
affair with Swans.
1562
02:08:15,396 --> 02:08:17,732
It was something that you've
given so much of your heart to
1563
02:08:18,024 --> 02:08:20,943
and you've worked so
hard in for so many years.
1564
02:08:21,235 --> 02:08:24,572
Like you kind of feel
invested in an intimate way
1565
02:08:24,864 --> 02:08:26,741
like your spirit
is connected to it.
1566
02:08:29,452 --> 02:08:33,122
And of course I consider
all those guys brothers.
1567
02:08:36,375 --> 02:08:41,380
I understood every millisecond of what
was happening up there as an architecture.
1568
02:08:41,672 --> 02:08:46,093
I understood it and it felt weird
to not be part of it. It felt weird.
1569
02:09:22,672 --> 02:09:25,341
At the end, the way
they finish the shows,
1570
02:09:25,633 --> 02:09:27,402
they all come to the
front of the stage and bow
1571
02:09:27,426 --> 02:09:28,844
and they're all
smiling and happy.
1572
02:09:29,512 --> 02:09:31,722
You really feel they've
gone through a battle
1573
02:09:32,014 --> 02:09:34,094
and they come out of it
and they've done brilliantly.
1574
02:09:34,141 --> 02:09:36,394
And they stand there and
they're smiling on stage,
1575
02:09:36,686 --> 02:09:38,086
they feel they've
done a day's work
1576
02:09:38,271 --> 02:09:39,271
And I love that.
1577
02:09:42,984 --> 02:09:45,611
A lot of groups would just do
feedback and walk off stage.
1578
02:09:45,903 --> 02:09:47,023
It all makes it very special
1579
02:09:47,280 --> 02:09:50,908
because he's so intense on
stage, it's so 'other' onstage.
1580
02:09:51,200 --> 02:09:53,286
And then Michael goes
straight to the merch stand
1581
02:09:53,577 --> 02:09:55,121
and starts interacting
with the fans,
1582
02:09:55,454 --> 02:09:56,454
which I think is great.
1583
02:09:57,748 --> 02:09:59,500
I suffer from anxiety
1584
02:09:59,792 --> 02:10:01,961
and tonight shifted
something for me.
1585
02:10:02,253 --> 02:10:03,533
- Oh good.
- Thank you very much.
1586
02:10:03,754 --> 02:10:04,755
I'm glad it's positive.
1587
02:10:07,967 --> 02:10:10,344
It's like fuel to me when
someone comes up to me
1588
02:10:10,636 --> 02:10:11,716
and tells me that the music
1589
02:10:11,971 --> 02:10:13,331
has helped them
through hard times
1590
02:10:13,597 --> 02:10:15,349
or that they found
something true in it
1591
02:10:15,641 --> 02:10:18,561
and how much it means to
them, that's incredibly rewarding.
1592
02:10:18,853 --> 02:10:22,189
It's fortifying to know that
I'm not doing it in a void
1593
02:10:22,481 --> 02:10:25,234
and that it actually has
had an effect on people.
1594
02:10:36,954 --> 02:10:40,499
It's so sick how the way people get
sucked up into the whole celebrity thing.
1595
02:10:40,791 --> 02:10:44,670
What a stupid way to look at existence, you
know, you have this short period on earth
1596
02:10:44,962 --> 02:10:46,690
and you're going to
wasted it thinking you're
1597
02:10:46,714 --> 02:10:48,841
some big deal. It's just stupid.
1598
02:10:49,133 --> 02:10:53,054
So people, they care about the music,
they pay to come see it, they buy things.
1599
02:10:53,346 --> 02:10:55,222
I think it's important
to meet them.
1600
02:10:55,514 --> 02:10:57,266
Find out what they're about.
1601
02:10:57,975 --> 02:11:00,335
Hello, I'm really unprepared,
I don't have anything to sign.
1602
02:11:00,519 --> 02:11:01,788
Oh, I'll be happy
to sign on that, yes.
1603
02:11:01,812 --> 02:11:03,022
It's my ticket.
1604
02:11:05,983 --> 02:11:07,526
Thank you for being here.
1605
02:11:17,328 --> 02:11:18,954
To Be Kind blew my mind
1606
02:11:19,246 --> 02:11:20,998
and it's changed the
way I listen to music.
1607
02:11:22,083 --> 02:11:28,214
The way it's so brutal and vicious and hard
to listen to, but the emotions are so raw.
1608
02:11:30,132 --> 02:11:32,343
It feels bigger than
you are in a sense.
1609
02:11:32,885 --> 02:11:35,679
Something about
it is kind of moving
1610
02:11:35,971 --> 02:11:39,350
in a weird sort of
transcendental way.
1611
02:11:39,642 --> 02:11:44,146
When I listen to it I don't feel
like I'm in control whatsoever
1612
02:11:44,438 --> 02:11:47,566
or I know what's going to happen even
though I know the songs a million times
1613
02:11:47,858 --> 02:11:50,653
and it feels kind of
like leaving my body.
1614
02:12:09,505 --> 02:12:11,173
Can you sign the
back of my shirt?
1615
02:12:25,771 --> 02:12:28,023
Tonight, you really
moved me to tears.
1616
02:12:28,899 --> 02:12:30,192
Thank you, just, thank you.
1617
02:12:38,784 --> 02:12:39,827
How old are you?
1618
02:12:44,081 --> 02:12:45,166
It's all there.
1619
02:12:52,256 --> 02:12:54,550
It was an amazing
show. Thank you so much.
1620
02:12:54,842 --> 02:12:56,122
Thank you. Where'd you get this.
1621
02:12:56,260 --> 02:13:01,348
The sound is just amazing.
Mindblowing stuff. Absolutely brilliant.
1622
02:13:03,601 --> 02:13:04,601
Yeah, first show.
1623
02:13:04,977 --> 02:13:09,398
It just completely blew me away
like nothing I'd ever heard before.
1624
02:13:09,732 --> 02:13:12,234
Hey, you got a bootleg
shirt on, take it off.
1625
02:13:15,279 --> 02:13:17,740
It's fantastic that
some of these kids
1626
02:13:18,032 --> 02:13:21,327
are the children of people
that went to the shows.
1627
02:13:22,286 --> 02:13:25,789
It's definitely the I word,
legacy, I mean it definitely is.
1628
02:13:31,086 --> 02:13:32,379
[Michael] For your dad?
1629
02:13:54,777 --> 02:13:56,445
Thank you for the concert.
1630
02:13:56,737 --> 02:13:57,321
Sorry about my voice.
1631
02:13:57,613 --> 02:13:59,073
No, it was really good.
1632
02:13:59,365 --> 02:14:01,325
And the song from
your wife point of view,
1633
02:14:01,617 --> 02:14:03,994
- I cried and it's amazing.
- Oh, good.
1634
02:14:06,413 --> 02:14:07,831
I don't know, I
cannot express it.
1635
02:14:08,123 --> 02:14:10,668
But it was really good, so thank you very much.
- Thank you.
1636
02:14:43,867 --> 02:14:46,078
Seeing Michael again
after all these years
1637
02:14:46,370 --> 02:14:48,497
was seeing like, my brother.
1638
02:14:51,333 --> 02:14:53,002
- How's it going?
- I'm good, how are you?
1639
02:14:53,294 --> 02:14:54,837
Great to see you.
1640
02:14:55,129 --> 02:14:56,714
Historic occasion.
1641
02:14:57,965 --> 02:15:00,509
There's very few
people I know in my life,
1642
02:15:00,801 --> 02:15:04,263
that I can just sort of like
see after 10 years or so
1643
02:15:04,680 --> 02:15:07,057
and it's like, not
a day has passed.
1644
02:15:07,349 --> 02:15:08,892
You alright?
1645
02:15:11,061 --> 02:15:12,354
Michael's certainly like that,
1646
02:15:12,646 --> 02:15:14,046
and it's been
longer than 10 years.
1647
02:15:14,940 --> 02:15:17,693
I mean, he's still got his band. I
don't have Sonic Youth anymore.
1648
02:15:19,445 --> 02:15:21,238
Oh, he's making
huge statements now.
1649
02:15:21,739 --> 02:15:25,576
And Swans, their concerts
are complete experiences.
1650
02:15:27,411 --> 02:15:30,497
Are you ready, we're gonna do a
collaboration on I Wanna Be Your Dog
1651
02:15:30,789 --> 02:15:31,789
You wanna do that?
1652
02:15:31,957 --> 02:15:33,637
I'll play the bass,
even though I can't...
1653
02:16:12,081 --> 02:16:15,084
To see Swans being
so accepted right now,
1654
02:16:15,376 --> 02:16:16,669
that's really great for him.
1655
02:16:24,259 --> 02:16:27,054
And this place is
completely sold out
1656
02:16:28,389 --> 02:16:31,517
and everybody's
is standing there
1657
02:16:31,809 --> 02:16:34,395
and they're listening
and they're all loving it.
1658
02:17:10,055 --> 02:17:12,558
For Michael to experience
that in that part of his life,
1659
02:17:12,850 --> 02:17:17,938
finally, is such a
glorification of being an artist.
1660
02:18:04,193 --> 02:18:05,694
Thurston Moore!
1661
02:18:07,279 --> 02:18:10,824
I was so happy and I
was so proud that he was
1662
02:18:11,575 --> 02:18:13,368
able to be there and doing that.
1663
02:18:45,901 --> 02:18:50,697
I think Michael stands
in the pantehon of
1664
02:18:51,198 --> 02:18:52,783
committed
1665
02:18:54,785 --> 02:18:55,785
artists.
1666
02:18:55,994 --> 02:18:56,995
Artistes!
1667
02:18:57,287 --> 02:19:01,166
Here was a guy who had a vision
and he was not fucking around.
1668
02:19:01,458 --> 02:19:04,044
He did it and then he kept
doing it and he kept doing it,
1669
02:19:04,336 --> 02:19:07,047
and he unflaggingly
committed himself
1670
02:19:07,339 --> 02:19:10,926
to his muse and his inspiration.
1671
02:19:13,053 --> 02:19:15,764
He's had a huge
impact on a lot of artists.
1672
02:19:16,056 --> 02:19:17,516
That's what matters.
1673
02:19:19,935 --> 02:19:21,270
I always thought that history
1674
02:19:21,562 --> 02:19:23,021
would be very kind to the Swans
1675
02:19:23,313 --> 02:19:26,733
because their output
has always had
1676
02:19:27,025 --> 02:19:30,279
an honesty to it,
and a real mastery
1677
02:19:30,696 --> 02:19:34,741
and an artistic vision
that is so unique
1678
02:19:35,033 --> 02:19:37,870
and impossible
to imitate really.
1679
02:19:38,161 --> 02:19:40,622
So they carved for themselves
1680
02:19:40,914 --> 02:19:46,962
the hard way, a very, very
definitive, artistic niche.
1681
02:19:47,254 --> 02:19:51,258
And it will always be, I
think, a really fertile well
1682
02:19:51,550 --> 02:19:54,469
of artistic content
for people to return to,
1683
02:19:55,137 --> 02:19:57,139
in 20 years and 50 years
1684
02:19:57,514 --> 02:20:01,852
because of its integrity
and purity and mastery.
1685
02:20:18,952 --> 02:20:23,373
There always has to
be a next, an evolution.
1686
02:20:24,041 --> 02:20:27,794
As an artist, you're always gonna
push until you fall over the edge,
1687
02:20:28,879 --> 02:20:31,423
so maybe Michael just
hasn't found the edge yet.
1688
02:20:46,355 --> 02:20:49,149
I felt like as a group,
as these six people,
1689
02:20:49,441 --> 02:20:51,610
that we have kind of
reached the pinnacle,
1690
02:20:51,902 --> 02:20:53,362
the top of what we can do.
1691
02:20:53,946 --> 02:20:56,531
Anything else
would be starting to
1692
02:20:56,823 --> 02:20:58,325
eat your own
fingers or your hand.
1693
02:21:04,498 --> 02:21:07,501
It's just time to
breathe a different air.
1694
02:21:09,920 --> 02:21:12,047
But we'll see you again.
1695
02:21:17,636 --> 02:21:21,223
It's incredibly spirited
of Michael to call time
1696
02:21:21,515 --> 02:21:24,351
on this iteration of Swans.
1697
02:21:25,060 --> 02:21:26,770
When it's still building
1698
02:21:27,062 --> 02:21:31,024
and people now have
very much a love for it,
1699
02:21:31,316 --> 02:21:36,113
and he can play to very large
audiences around the world.
1700
02:21:40,367 --> 02:21:42,369
I think he's once again
1701
02:21:42,661 --> 02:21:47,040
doing the true
artistic thing of saying,
1702
02:21:47,666 --> 02:21:49,835
this feels like it's
about to get comfortable
1703
02:21:50,127 --> 02:21:51,586
and comfort doesn't
equal good art
1704
02:21:51,878 --> 02:21:54,089
and now I'm gonna
scrap it and start again.
1705
02:22:26,496 --> 02:22:27,914
The last one...
1706
02:22:32,169 --> 02:22:35,547
- Thor.
- Such a pleasure and an honor.
1707
02:22:39,801 --> 02:22:40,886
You big galoot!
1708
02:28:29,859 --> 02:28:33,738
I arrived from [Republic
of] Georgia from Tblisi
1709
02:28:34,030 --> 02:28:36,658
to New York City,
especially for Swans concert.
1710
02:28:36,950 --> 02:28:38,701
I came from Tempe, Arizona.
1711
02:28:38,993 --> 02:28:41,079
I came from Providence,
Rhode Island.
1712
02:28:41,371 --> 02:28:43,415
So, tonight I came
from Montreal.
1713
02:28:43,706 --> 02:28:47,252
My son Joshua and I came
from Vermont to see Swans.
1714
02:28:47,669 --> 02:28:49,546
Love of Life was the
first album, I think,
1715
02:28:49,838 --> 02:28:52,757
I listened to by them and I
was just really into it, yeah.
1716
02:28:53,049 --> 02:28:54,634
I flew in from Mexico City.
1717
02:28:54,926 --> 02:28:57,011
From Latvia, from Riga.
1718
02:28:57,303 --> 02:28:58,388
I came from Denmark.
1719
02:28:58,680 --> 02:29:00,265
I come from Sweden.
1720
02:29:00,557 --> 02:29:02,100
I came from Tulsa,
Oklahoma today
1721
02:29:02,392 --> 02:29:04,102
to see Swans for the first time.
1722
02:29:04,477 --> 02:29:09,649
I'm 13 years old, I've
been a fan since late 2016.
1723
02:29:09,941 --> 02:29:11,985
To Be Kind was my first listen.
1724
02:29:12,277 --> 02:29:13,862
My dad is also a Swans fan.
1725
02:29:14,154 --> 02:29:15,905
I got him into Swans, actually.
1726
02:29:16,823 --> 02:29:19,075
So, this was extremely
important to me.
1727
02:29:19,367 --> 02:29:22,370
Swans is very
special band for me
1728
02:29:23,746 --> 02:29:29,085
It's really emotional because
it's Swans last shows.
1729
02:29:29,377 --> 02:29:30,962
Friends of mine
came here from Paris..
1730
02:29:31,254 --> 02:29:34,215
And yeah, it's a
big deal for people.
1731
02:30:31,689 --> 02:30:34,442
With some kind of quite
stunning ups and downs,
1732
02:30:34,734 --> 02:30:36,194
they've had the kind of career
1733
02:30:36,486 --> 02:30:39,572
and dogged self-belief
1734
02:30:39,864 --> 02:30:41,824
and self-determination
1735
02:30:42,116 --> 02:30:47,413
that will make them an
enduring name in music.
1736
02:30:47,705 --> 02:30:51,960
I think it's a name that will
only kind of grow in time.
1737
02:31:54,063 --> 02:31:56,816
I want the music
to continue to exist.
1738
02:31:57,108 --> 02:31:59,152
I think it's a positive force.
1739
02:32:00,236 --> 02:32:02,947
It's definitely an act
of love, I've realized,
1740
02:32:03,239 --> 02:32:05,325
so that's a good force
to have in the world.
1741
02:32:05,617 --> 02:32:08,119
And meeting people
who experience it
1742
02:32:08,411 --> 02:32:10,997
and get something true from it
1743
02:32:12,540 --> 02:32:14,167
is a huge reward for me.
1744
02:32:16,878 --> 02:32:18,921
To feel like I've
done and am doing
1745
02:32:19,213 --> 02:32:21,341
something
worthwhile with my life.
1746
02:32:48,701 --> 02:32:52,914
I think I called Michael
last year in a drunken state.
1747
02:32:53,206 --> 02:32:54,332
Not him, I was drunk.
1748
02:32:55,166 --> 02:32:57,669
I told him that I
still consider him
1749
02:32:57,960 --> 02:33:00,880
a fellow traveler on
the same strange path.
1750
02:33:18,981 --> 02:33:21,651
Unless you're making
something, creating something,
1751
02:33:21,943 --> 02:33:25,029
you can't be
actualized or whole or,
1752
02:33:25,321 --> 02:33:28,449
kind of, have a sense of being
in your skin or in your body
1753
02:33:28,741 --> 02:33:31,828
unless you're doing it,
you just have to keep on.
1754
02:33:32,995 --> 02:33:36,290
Some people might say it's a
compulsion, but it's your DNA.
1755
02:34:22,837 --> 02:34:27,383
I can't see why he would stop now. You
carry on till the bitter end, till you drop.
1756
02:34:27,675 --> 02:34:29,427
You drop and that's it.
1757
02:34:29,719 --> 02:34:31,179
You've had it.
1758
02:35:14,347 --> 02:35:17,350
Yeah, Michael Gira will never
stop until a Samsonite shaped
1759
02:35:17,642 --> 02:35:21,229
tombstone rests six
feet above his head.
1760
02:35:37,745 --> 02:35:40,665
I have to work, you
gotta keep working.
1761
02:35:41,207 --> 02:35:45,461
A person's life is consumed
largely by the work they do.
1762
02:35:46,128 --> 02:35:49,841
And if you're tenacious
enough and fortunate,
1763
02:35:50,883 --> 02:35:53,344
you can figure out a
way to, at least, subsist
1764
02:35:53,636 --> 02:35:56,514
on doing the thing that
you were put on earth to do.
1765
02:36:04,105 --> 02:36:05,815
I mean, giving up is
not an option anyway.
1766
02:36:06,858 --> 02:36:08,317
What else am I gonna do?
146073
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