Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:01:06,228 --> 00:01:09,898
- Reverend,
you're on duty today.
2
00:01:11,276 --> 00:01:13,611
Can you think...
just think about the man
3
00:01:13,612 --> 00:01:17,281
whom you are going to encounter
in an hour from now,
4
00:01:17,282 --> 00:01:19,951
less than an hour from now.
5
00:01:19,952 --> 00:01:26,082
- I really am going there
without any expectations.
6
00:01:26,083 --> 00:01:31,923
I'm going there to experience
what God has prepared for me,
7
00:01:31,924 --> 00:01:34,425
for him,
for all of those involved,
8
00:01:34,426 --> 00:01:38,597
and I don't
preconceive anything.
9
00:01:38,598 --> 00:01:40,098
Not today.
10
00:01:40,099 --> 00:01:43,560
I will let that happen
as it occurs,
11
00:01:43,561 --> 00:01:46,063
as time gets there.
12
00:01:46,064 --> 00:01:49,317
We have a loving, caring,
13
00:01:49,318 --> 00:01:52,320
forgiving, merciful God,
14
00:01:52,321 --> 00:01:57,159
and in time of joy
and in time of need,
15
00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,954
in time of trial
or tribulation,
16
00:01:59,955 --> 00:02:02,081
God is always there for us.
17
00:02:02,082 --> 00:02:05,085
I want to make
that presence to them.
18
00:02:05,086 --> 00:02:08,838
- And technically when he is
led to the gurney,
19
00:02:08,839 --> 00:02:10,507
what is your duty then?
20
00:02:10,508 --> 00:02:12,842
- After everything
is completed,
21
00:02:12,843 --> 00:02:14,720
as far as the preparation,
22
00:02:14,721 --> 00:02:19,225
then I walk over, and I stand
as he has allowed me to stand.
23
00:02:19,226 --> 00:02:23,272
I always ask permission
to be able to stand at his feet
24
00:02:23,273 --> 00:02:24,940
and hold his ankle,
25
00:02:24,941 --> 00:02:27,442
and I move toward
that position,
26
00:02:27,443 --> 00:02:30,112
and I place my hand
on his ankle,
27
00:02:30,113 --> 00:02:34,284
and then that's what...
what I do
28
00:02:34,285 --> 00:02:36,286
until death occurs.
29
00:02:38,122 --> 00:02:40,373
- And if there is
no family interested
30
00:02:40,374 --> 00:02:42,001
in taking care of the body,
31
00:02:42,002 --> 00:02:45,004
the condemned men would end up
right behind you?
32
00:02:45,005 --> 00:02:48,299
- Yes, they end up here
at the state cemetery,
33
00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:50,302
and they're buried
by the state.
34
00:02:51,470 --> 00:02:55,432
No names on the crosses,
only numbers.
35
00:03:00,939 --> 00:03:06,277
- Why does God allow
capital punishment?
36
00:03:09,115 --> 00:03:11,116
- I don't know the answer.
37
00:03:13,619 --> 00:03:15,912
I believe that
there's always a purpose
38
00:03:15,913 --> 00:03:19,459
why God allows
things to happen.
39
00:03:21,462 --> 00:03:25,131
God has created so many things
in this world.
40
00:03:26,426 --> 00:03:28,677
I play golf sometimes.
41
00:03:28,678 --> 00:03:31,430
I love to be on
the golf course,
42
00:03:31,431 --> 00:03:36,603
because one thing I do,
I put my phone on a silent mode.
43
00:03:36,604 --> 00:03:41,024
I go out there sometimes
by myself with no distractions,
44
00:03:41,025 --> 00:03:43,193
and I can see
the beautiful grass.
45
00:03:43,194 --> 00:03:46,364
I can see the squirrels,
from time to time, running.
46
00:03:46,365 --> 00:03:48,366
Sometimes the deer are running.
47
00:03:48,367 --> 00:03:51,160
Sometimes I look across
the golf course,
48
00:03:51,161 --> 00:03:55,290
and I see a cow or a horse,
and... and I... and I stop,
49
00:03:55,291 --> 00:03:59,836
and I acknowledge life.
50
00:03:59,837 --> 00:04:01,672
Life,
51
00:04:01,673 --> 00:04:04,092
the things
that God has created.
52
00:04:04,093 --> 00:04:07,678
- Please describe
an encounter with a squirrel.
53
00:04:07,679 --> 00:04:09,138
- An encounter with a squirrel,
54
00:04:09,139 --> 00:04:11,725
I was driving the golf cart,
and I was on the golf...
55
00:04:11,726 --> 00:04:14,728
on the cart path,
and I saw two squirrels.
56
00:04:14,729 --> 00:04:17,398
They were chasing each other,
and as I was getting closer,
57
00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:19,191
they were running across
the cart path,
58
00:04:19,192 --> 00:04:20,735
and I put on my brakes,
59
00:04:20,736 --> 00:04:22,821
and they stopped in
the middle of the cart path
60
00:04:22,822 --> 00:04:26,199
and looked at me,
and I said, "How about this?"
61
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:27,575
"If I wouldn't have stopped,
62
00:04:27,576 --> 00:04:30,162
"I could have run over
one of these squirrels.
63
00:04:30,163 --> 00:04:32,415
Their life would have ended."
64
00:04:32,416 --> 00:04:34,417
And that reminds me...
65
00:04:39,507 --> 00:04:44,094
of the many people
that I have been with
66
00:04:44,095 --> 00:04:48,057
in their last breath of life,
67
00:04:48,058 --> 00:04:54,355
and due to bad choices and
mistakes in their life, they...
68
00:04:54,356 --> 00:04:58,610
their life is taken away
in that moment.
69
00:05:00,113 --> 00:05:06,119
So life is precious,
whether it's a squirrel
70
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,955
or a human being.
71
00:05:08,956 --> 00:05:14,753
So I will sometimes meditate
on that experience.
72
00:05:14,754 --> 00:05:18,966
Make a little noise,
and the squirrels will take off
73
00:05:18,967 --> 00:05:21,093
and continue their life,
74
00:05:21,094 --> 00:05:23,013
but I cannot do that.
75
00:05:26,517 --> 00:05:29,686
For someone on the gurney,
76
00:05:29,687 --> 00:05:34,942
I cannot stop the process
for them.
77
00:05:39,364 --> 00:05:41,783
But I wish I could.
78
00:08:04,777 --> 00:08:06,235
- Good, yeah.
79
00:08:06,236 --> 00:08:07,612
You are not wired yet,
80
00:08:07,613 --> 00:08:09,864
so we have to wire you first.
81
00:08:37,771 --> 00:08:39,689
Michael Perry,
now from all of us,
82
00:08:39,690 --> 00:08:41,066
the whole team here,
83
00:08:41,067 --> 00:08:43,860
we would like to offer
our condolences.
84
00:08:44,862 --> 00:08:47,989
Your father passed away.
85
00:08:47,990 --> 00:08:49,659
- Right, on the 10th.
86
00:08:49,660 --> 00:08:51,202
My dad died 13 days ago.
87
00:08:51,203 --> 00:08:52,578
- 13 days ago.
88
00:08:52,579 --> 00:08:53,955
- Yeah, on June 10th.
89
00:08:53,956 --> 00:08:56,457
- But you will die or you are
scheduled for execution...
90
00:08:56,458 --> 00:08:57,875
- Right.
91
00:08:57,876 --> 00:08:59,878
- In only eight days.
- Yes, sir.
92
00:08:59,879 --> 00:09:01,672
- How are you doing?
93
00:09:01,673 --> 00:09:03,882
- You know... you know,
I'm a Christian, so, you know,
94
00:09:03,883 --> 00:09:05,676
I believe that, you know,
paradise awaits
95
00:09:05,677 --> 00:09:08,054
one way or the other,
so I tell people all the time,
96
00:09:08,055 --> 00:09:10,849
I'm either going home
or home, so...
97
00:09:10,850 --> 00:09:13,351
I'm either going home
to the world or home to God,
98
00:09:13,352 --> 00:09:16,229
so I... you know,
as the days get closer,
99
00:09:16,230 --> 00:09:18,858
I can feel the pressure
on my shoulders.
100
00:09:18,859 --> 00:09:21,360
They call it clinical depression
where I just start having
101
00:09:21,361 --> 00:09:24,947
less motivation to do things,
less energy.
102
00:09:24,948 --> 00:09:26,867
You get frustrated at the...
at the system.
103
00:09:26,868 --> 00:09:32,247
How can they not see, you know,
my situation is wrong?
104
00:09:32,248 --> 00:09:33,957
You know, I... I used to
write all the time
105
00:09:33,958 --> 00:09:35,460
and have a lot of energy,
106
00:09:35,461 --> 00:09:36,919
and I just don't
have it any more.
107
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,130
I just feel like
I've been beaten down.
108
00:09:39,131 --> 00:09:42,759
- I have the feeling
that destiny, in a way,
109
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,430
has dealt you
a very bad deck of cards.
110
00:09:46,431 --> 00:09:48,557
It does not exonerate you,
111
00:09:48,558 --> 00:09:51,018
and... and when I talk to you,
112
00:09:51,019 --> 00:09:54,773
it does not necessarily mean
that I have to like you,
113
00:09:54,774 --> 00:09:57,275
but I respect you,
and you are a human being,
114
00:09:57,276 --> 00:09:59,694
and I think human beings
should not be executed.
115
00:09:59,695 --> 00:10:01,154
- Mm-hmm.
- As simply as that.
116
00:10:01,155 --> 00:10:02,448
- Right.
117
00:12:27,276 --> 00:12:31,112
- Lieutenant, this looks
idyllic and safe.
118
00:12:31,113 --> 00:12:32,572
- Well, and you would
think that.
119
00:12:32,573 --> 00:12:34,407
This is a gated community,
obviously.
120
00:12:34,408 --> 00:12:38,079
The houses that are out here
are very large houses,
121
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,455
very expensive houses,
122
00:12:39,456 --> 00:12:40,915
and you would think
that this is...
123
00:12:40,916 --> 00:12:42,291
this is a very quiet area,
124
00:12:42,292 --> 00:12:47,714
and you would, I guess,
associate that with security.
125
00:12:47,715 --> 00:12:49,883
But this house right here
is actually the house
126
00:12:49,884 --> 00:12:52,637
where Sandra Stotler
was murdered.
127
00:12:52,638 --> 00:12:56,265
This is where Michael Perry
and Jason Burkett
128
00:12:56,266 --> 00:12:57,642
parked out on the street
129
00:12:57,643 --> 00:13:00,603
and went in and...
and murdered her.
130
00:13:00,604 --> 00:13:02,022
At the time that we found her,
131
00:13:02,023 --> 00:13:03,482
she was actually
baking cookies,
132
00:13:03,483 --> 00:13:04,942
and there was evidence of that.
133
00:13:04,943 --> 00:13:06,443
There was... there was
cookies out.
134
00:13:06,444 --> 00:13:08,862
There was cookie dough out.
135
00:13:08,863 --> 00:13:12,575
So she was in the process
of that when she was killed.
136
00:13:12,576 --> 00:13:16,955
- But apparently
the first plan was not murder.
137
00:13:16,956 --> 00:13:19,917
- Well, and that was something
that we were told,
138
00:13:19,918 --> 00:13:22,586
that initially the...
the boys were all...
139
00:13:22,587 --> 00:13:25,256
when I say "boys,"
Michael Perry, Jason Burkett,
140
00:13:25,257 --> 00:13:26,924
Adam Stotler,
and Jeremy Richardson...
141
00:13:26,925 --> 00:13:28,342
they were acquaintances
142
00:13:28,343 --> 00:13:30,345
through, you know,
some mutual friends.
143
00:13:30,346 --> 00:13:32,305
They weren't
really friends themselves,
144
00:13:32,306 --> 00:13:33,890
but they... they were
acquaintances,
145
00:13:33,891 --> 00:13:38,521
and what we were told was...
is that they came here
146
00:13:38,522 --> 00:13:41,858
with the intention
of trying to get Adam Stotler
147
00:13:41,859 --> 00:13:43,317
to allow them to stay the night
148
00:13:43,318 --> 00:13:45,361
by telling them they didn't have
a place to stay,
149
00:13:45,362 --> 00:13:48,115
and they were going to try
to get the keys to the car
150
00:13:48,116 --> 00:13:49,533
and steal it.
151
00:13:49,534 --> 00:13:50,951
That's what they were after,
152
00:13:50,952 --> 00:13:54,329
was the red Camaro
that was in the garage.
153
00:13:54,330 --> 00:13:56,666
Upon going to the door
and talking to the mother,
154
00:13:56,667 --> 00:13:58,960
and she said that they were out,
the boys were out,
155
00:13:58,961 --> 00:14:00,336
and so they left,
156
00:14:00,337 --> 00:14:01,880
and that's when
their plan changed,
157
00:14:01,881 --> 00:14:05,092
that they were just going to
kill her and take the car.
158
00:14:05,093 --> 00:14:07,428
So they went back up
to the door,
159
00:14:07,429 --> 00:14:09,263
and the garage was open,
160
00:14:09,264 --> 00:14:11,932
and the door going into
the house was open.
161
00:14:11,933 --> 00:14:14,352
Michael Perry,
by his own admission,
162
00:14:14,353 --> 00:14:16,688
entered that garage door
and went into the laundry room
163
00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:19,357
at the time that Jason Burkett
knocked on the front door.
164
00:14:19,358 --> 00:14:20,776
And as their truck
was out here,
165
00:14:20,777 --> 00:14:22,570
he told them
that the truck wouldn't start
166
00:14:22,571 --> 00:14:25,865
and they needed to call someone
to come and assist them.
167
00:14:25,866 --> 00:14:27,950
So she let him in the house
to use the telephone,
168
00:14:27,951 --> 00:14:29,327
and while he was doing that,
169
00:14:29,328 --> 00:14:31,287
Michael Perry stepped
out of the laundry room
170
00:14:31,288 --> 00:14:33,707
and knocked on
the back garage door,
171
00:14:33,708 --> 00:14:35,793
which made her come
and answer it,
172
00:14:35,794 --> 00:14:38,212
and he stepped out from the
laundry room from behind her,
173
00:14:38,213 --> 00:14:40,130
and that's when he shot her.
174
00:14:42,510 --> 00:14:45,428
The actual garage door itself
was open
175
00:14:45,429 --> 00:14:48,056
when our deputies
arrived on the scene.
176
00:15:51,419 --> 00:15:52,795
The master bedroom,
177
00:15:52,796 --> 00:15:54,463
which is in the back part
of the house
178
00:15:54,464 --> 00:15:56,299
behind the garage over here,
179
00:15:56,300 --> 00:15:58,801
they went in,
and they took the top bedding,
180
00:15:58,802 --> 00:16:01,471
the blanket and the...
the top sheet,
181
00:16:01,472 --> 00:16:03,807
and that's what they
wrapped her in.
182
00:16:03,808 --> 00:16:05,642
They brought her out,
put her in the truck,
183
00:16:05,643 --> 00:16:07,978
and they drove her out
to Crater Lake
184
00:16:07,979 --> 00:16:09,813
to dispose of her body.
185
00:16:12,234 --> 00:16:13,610
- And how does it happen?
186
00:16:13,611 --> 00:16:15,195
Was it drugs?
187
00:16:15,196 --> 00:16:16,988
- You know, I don't know
that there was ever
188
00:16:16,989 --> 00:16:19,157
any direct evidence
as far as, you know,
189
00:16:19,158 --> 00:16:21,160
drugs relating particularly
to this case.
190
00:16:21,161 --> 00:16:24,830
I mean, honestly, it was just...
you know, they had a car.
191
00:16:24,831 --> 00:16:27,082
You know, this lady owned a car
that they wanted,
192
00:16:27,083 --> 00:16:29,544
so, you know, it was...
193
00:16:29,545 --> 00:16:32,589
unfortunately, you know,
people died for a theft.
194
00:16:53,446 --> 00:16:54,821
Other than it being dark,
195
00:16:54,822 --> 00:16:58,201
this is pretty much
the way it was
196
00:16:58,202 --> 00:16:59,994
that night
when we came out here.
197
00:17:11,591 --> 00:17:15,387
You'll see all kinds of debris
and trash here, as I said.
198
00:17:15,388 --> 00:17:20,517
This is... was pretty commonly
used for a dumping ground.
199
00:17:20,518 --> 00:17:23,479
They've pulled lots of vehicles
out of... out of Crater Lake.
200
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,982
We've had, actually,
a few other bodies
201
00:17:25,983 --> 00:17:29,402
that we've... that we've gotten
out of Crater Lake.
202
00:17:29,403 --> 00:17:31,571
This is Crater Lake here.
203
00:17:31,572 --> 00:17:33,073
This little area right here,
204
00:17:33,074 --> 00:17:37,744
this is where the tire treads
in the dirt was actually here.
205
00:17:39,455 --> 00:17:41,582
At the time that they first
came down here,
206
00:17:41,583 --> 00:17:43,543
they actually backed up to that
207
00:17:43,544 --> 00:17:45,169
and tried to slam
on their brakes,
208
00:17:45,170 --> 00:17:47,005
hoping to eject the body
in the water,
209
00:17:47,006 --> 00:17:48,756
and that didn't work,
so, again,
210
00:17:48,757 --> 00:17:50,634
that was just something that...
that we heard.
211
00:17:50,635 --> 00:17:53,095
I don't know that that's
actually what happened,
212
00:17:53,096 --> 00:17:55,097
but you could tell from...
213
00:17:55,098 --> 00:17:57,933
there wasn't any distinct
tire wear in the ground.
214
00:17:57,934 --> 00:17:59,769
You could just tell
that a tire...
215
00:17:59,770 --> 00:18:02,605
tires had been
spinning there, so...
216
00:18:02,606 --> 00:18:04,107
So it seemed to fit the story,
217
00:18:04,108 --> 00:18:06,026
but they ended up
getting the body
218
00:18:06,027 --> 00:18:08,404
and... and carrying it out here,
219
00:18:08,405 --> 00:18:10,698
and it was just dropped
in the water.
220
00:19:19,234 --> 00:19:21,568
We didn't know when we
processed the scene here
221
00:19:21,569 --> 00:19:24,655
and when we processed
Sandra Stotler's residence,
222
00:19:24,656 --> 00:19:26,031
we still did not know
223
00:19:26,032 --> 00:19:28,033
that we had any other victims
other than her.
224
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,334
This is the gated community
of Highland Ranch.
225
00:19:36,335 --> 00:19:38,546
Inside those gates is the house
226
00:19:38,547 --> 00:19:42,341
where Sandra Stotler
was murdered.
227
00:19:42,342 --> 00:19:45,094
When Michael Perry
and Jason Burkett came back here
228
00:19:45,095 --> 00:19:47,222
to get the Camaro
that they were after,
229
00:19:47,223 --> 00:19:49,057
these gates were...
were shut and locked,
230
00:19:49,058 --> 00:19:50,767
so they didn't have access
to it,
231
00:19:50,768 --> 00:19:53,186
so they waited around
and parked
232
00:19:53,187 --> 00:19:57,650
until Adam Stotler and
Jeremy Richardson returned home,
233
00:19:57,651 --> 00:20:01,195
and that's when they got them to
come out in the woods with them
234
00:20:01,196 --> 00:20:03,865
and... and murdered them
so that they could get
235
00:20:03,866 --> 00:20:06,326
basically the clicker
to come back and get access in...
236
00:20:06,327 --> 00:20:07,703
you know, into this gate
237
00:20:07,704 --> 00:20:09,288
so that they could go back
to the house
238
00:20:09,289 --> 00:20:10,706
and take the Camaro.
239
00:20:10,707 --> 00:20:13,376
- So only because they
didn't have the code here
240
00:20:13,377 --> 00:20:15,879
and it was closed at night,
241
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,923
two more young people
had to die.
242
00:20:18,924 --> 00:20:20,592
- Yes, sir.
That's correct.
243
00:20:25,432 --> 00:20:29,268
- Lieutenant, Jason Burkett
and Michael Perry
244
00:20:29,269 --> 00:20:31,938
bragged about
what they had done.
245
00:20:31,939 --> 00:20:35,233
How clear evidence was that?
246
00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:37,152
- Well, because it came
from multiple people.
247
00:20:37,153 --> 00:20:38,528
It wasn't just one.
248
00:20:38,529 --> 00:20:40,030
We got reports
from several people
249
00:20:40,031 --> 00:20:41,407
from the different hangouts
250
00:20:41,408 --> 00:20:43,367
that they had said
that they had killed people.
251
00:20:43,368 --> 00:20:45,119
That's how they got
the vehicles.
252
00:21:35,468 --> 00:21:37,010
It was pretty convincing.
253
00:21:37,011 --> 00:21:38,679
I mean, we believed it.
254
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,473
Although, again, we...
we didn't have evidence
255
00:21:41,474 --> 00:21:43,643
that we had other bodies
at the time.
256
00:21:44,895 --> 00:21:46,980
- Only after Perry confessed,
257
00:21:46,981 --> 00:21:50,733
he pointed you to the location
of the two young boys.
258
00:21:52,069 --> 00:21:53,404
- Yes, sir.
259
00:22:36,035 --> 00:22:37,494
- As soon as I found out
my mother...
260
00:22:37,495 --> 00:22:38,871
her body had been found,
261
00:22:38,872 --> 00:22:41,206
that whole week is just a blur.
262
00:22:41,207 --> 00:22:42,583
I was watching the news.
263
00:22:42,584 --> 00:22:44,126
It was Monday morning,
264
00:22:44,127 --> 00:22:47,297
and I saw helicopters flying
over Ronny's truck stop here.
265
00:22:47,298 --> 00:22:51,885
Well, we live a mile,
and I had a glimmer of hope.
266
00:22:51,886 --> 00:22:55,389
I said, "Adam got away.
He's found his way home."
267
00:22:55,390 --> 00:22:58,225
Because that's the exit you'd
get off to come to my house.
268
00:22:58,226 --> 00:22:59,727
So I told my husband.
269
00:22:59,728 --> 00:23:01,771
I said, "Get in the car.
We're going down there."
270
00:23:01,772 --> 00:23:03,314
'Cause they showed
the crime scene,
271
00:23:03,315 --> 00:23:05,067
the helicopters.
272
00:23:05,068 --> 00:23:07,235
My brother's car
was there on the news.
273
00:23:07,236 --> 00:23:08,904
So we went up
to Ronny's truck stop,
274
00:23:08,905 --> 00:23:11,657
and I saw all that stuff
on the car,
275
00:23:11,658 --> 00:23:13,409
and I'm like,
"oh, that's not Adam's car.
276
00:23:13,410 --> 00:23:15,203
He doesn't have all that stuff
on there."
277
00:23:15,204 --> 00:23:16,913
- "Stuff" meaning?
278
00:23:16,914 --> 00:23:19,457
- The stickers and the...
- "Gauge," "A.B."?
279
00:23:19,458 --> 00:23:20,875
- Yeah, I saw all that stuff.
280
00:23:20,876 --> 00:23:22,544
I was like,
"oh, that's not his car."
281
00:23:29,219 --> 00:23:31,638
You know, and then I looked at
the license plate.
282
00:23:31,639 --> 00:23:33,890
The car was riddled
with bullets,
283
00:23:33,891 --> 00:23:38,812
and they had just
chased them down
284
00:23:38,813 --> 00:23:41,440
and caught them at
the apartment complex,
285
00:23:41,441 --> 00:23:44,902
and I was kind of
trailing behind them,
286
00:23:44,903 --> 00:23:46,821
and they left to go
to the hospital,
287
00:23:46,822 --> 00:23:49,282
and they told me...
I was like, "Please tell me,"
288
00:23:49,283 --> 00:23:52,160
because Adam had been missing
now since Wednesday,
289
00:23:52,161 --> 00:23:53,620
and it was now Monday,
and I said,
290
00:23:53,621 --> 00:23:55,622
"Please tell me,
was Adam with them?"
291
00:23:55,623 --> 00:23:57,124
And they said, "Adam got shot",
292
00:23:57,125 --> 00:23:59,544
and they took him
to the hospital."
293
00:23:59,545 --> 00:24:03,506
Now, Michael Perry
is still saying he's Adam.
294
00:24:03,507 --> 00:24:05,842
He got out of jail.
He bonded out of jail.
295
00:24:17,481 --> 00:24:20,150
- Perry just had his ID.
296
00:24:20,151 --> 00:24:21,985
You believed...
- I believed he was alive.
297
00:24:21,986 --> 00:24:23,653
- Your brother was safe,
only wounded,
298
00:24:23,654 --> 00:24:26,490
because you were told
Adam was safe...
299
00:24:26,491 --> 00:24:27,867
- Was shot.
300
00:24:27,868 --> 00:24:29,452
- And shot but in hospital.
301
00:24:29,453 --> 00:24:31,829
- And I... you know,
I was like...
302
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:34,624
Thank God.
303
00:24:34,625 --> 00:24:36,126
So I started calling
the hospitals
304
00:24:36,127 --> 00:24:38,336
trying to figure out
which hospital he was at,
305
00:24:38,337 --> 00:24:40,922
and I described him,
and she's like...
306
00:24:40,923 --> 00:24:42,716
I finally got a nurse
who would talk to me,
307
00:24:42,717 --> 00:24:45,720
and she's like, "That's not
the kid that's here, ma'am."
308
00:24:45,721 --> 00:24:51,100
- But you had hopes, I mean,
substantial hopes
309
00:24:51,101 --> 00:24:53,979
that your brother Adam
was wounded but safe.
310
00:24:53,980 --> 00:24:55,355
- Yes.
- Alive.
311
00:24:55,356 --> 00:24:56,732
- Yeah.
312
00:24:56,733 --> 00:24:58,734
- And all of a sudden...
313
00:24:58,735 --> 00:25:01,404
- My world was ripped out
from underneath me.
314
00:25:03,866 --> 00:25:05,867
Everyone was gone.
315
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:12,374
I called Lieutenant Davidson,
316
00:25:12,375 --> 00:25:16,045
and he told me to come down
to the police station,
317
00:25:16,046 --> 00:25:17,588
and I told him,
318
00:25:17,589 --> 00:25:19,716
"I'm watching you on TV
right now.
319
00:25:19,717 --> 00:25:22,219
Just tell me
if that's Adam."
320
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:23,887
And he said,
"I really would like you
321
00:25:23,888 --> 00:25:26,223
to come down
to the station."
322
00:25:26,224 --> 00:25:28,184
And I said, "Just tell me."
323
00:25:28,185 --> 00:25:30,353
And he said,
"Yeah, it's Adam."
324
00:25:30,354 --> 00:25:32,021
He said, "It's Adam,"
325
00:25:32,022 --> 00:25:34,774
and my knees gave out,
326
00:25:34,775 --> 00:25:37,778
and I never knew that your knees
really went weak, you know,
327
00:25:37,779 --> 00:25:39,863
but that saying is true,
"Weak in the knees."
328
00:25:39,864 --> 00:25:41,865
My knees went weak,
and I fell to the floor.
329
00:25:51,961 --> 00:25:54,045
- This is Lindsey Lane.
330
00:25:54,046 --> 00:25:56,549
This is where we were directed
on this road
331
00:25:56,550 --> 00:25:59,176
by Michael Perry
in his confession
332
00:25:59,177 --> 00:26:01,303
that we would find
two additional bodies
333
00:26:01,304 --> 00:26:03,472
of Adam Stotler
and Jeremy Richardson.
334
00:26:08,020 --> 00:26:09,855
We came down this road,
and then we split up.
335
00:26:09,856 --> 00:26:11,231
We went to the end of the road,
336
00:26:11,232 --> 00:26:13,317
and we actually walked
back this way
337
00:26:13,318 --> 00:26:16,904
and discovered Adam's body.
338
00:26:24,664 --> 00:26:26,248
They lured them into this area
339
00:26:26,249 --> 00:26:28,542
by telling them that there was
a mutual friend of theirs
340
00:26:28,543 --> 00:26:30,878
that had gotten hurt
while they were hunting.
341
00:26:34,758 --> 00:26:37,844
This house obviously
was not here at the time.
342
00:26:37,845 --> 00:26:39,304
You can see,
as this is coming out,
343
00:26:39,305 --> 00:26:40,681
how it's coming around,
344
00:26:40,682 --> 00:26:43,183
so it's gonna be
somewhere about...
345
00:26:43,184 --> 00:26:45,019
somewhere in that concrete
is gonna be
346
00:26:45,020 --> 00:26:47,021
about where his body
was discovered.
347
00:26:56,782 --> 00:26:58,868
Once we actually
processed the scene
348
00:26:58,869 --> 00:27:00,870
and we moved the body,
once we moved the body,
349
00:27:00,871 --> 00:27:03,456
there was a cigarette butt
under it, which we collected,
350
00:27:03,457 --> 00:27:06,876
and there was also another
cigarette butt close by,
351
00:27:06,877 --> 00:27:08,462
but the one that was
under his body,
352
00:27:08,463 --> 00:27:10,797
once we submitted it
to the state lab for DNA,
353
00:27:10,798 --> 00:27:13,300
it had Michael Perry's DNA
on it.
354
00:27:13,301 --> 00:27:15,385
- Which means the body
had fallen...
355
00:27:15,386 --> 00:27:16,763
- Had fallen on the cigarette
356
00:27:16,764 --> 00:27:18,806
after it was already discarded
on the ground.
357
00:27:20,935 --> 00:27:23,269
The other body
was Jeremy Richardson.
358
00:27:23,270 --> 00:27:25,606
From where we actually
found his body,
359
00:27:25,607 --> 00:27:28,359
it was so dense with trees,
we couldn't even get into it.
360
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:30,319
I don't know
how he got into it.
361
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,863
We couldn't hardly even get into
it without taking machetes
362
00:27:32,864 --> 00:27:34,866
and... and cutting back
some of the brush.
363
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:40,080
Jeremy, he ran
for some distance
364
00:27:40,081 --> 00:27:41,498
while he was being shot at.
365
00:27:41,499 --> 00:27:42,874
I don't know if it was 'cause
366
00:27:42,875 --> 00:27:45,211
he heard the gunshots here
and got startled,
367
00:27:45,212 --> 00:27:46,879
or if Jason pointed
the shotgun at him,
368
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,881
and he realized it
before he was actually shot,
369
00:27:48,882 --> 00:27:50,549
and he took off running.
370
00:27:59,936 --> 00:28:03,940
- Charles, you lost
your brother, Jeremy.
371
00:28:03,941 --> 00:28:07,068
Do you remember the moment
when you heard about it?
372
00:28:09,697 --> 00:28:11,198
- I was in Georgia,
373
00:28:11,199 --> 00:28:13,951
and I got a phone call
from my aunt
374
00:28:13,952 --> 00:28:16,370
saying for me to call home.
375
00:28:16,371 --> 00:28:18,080
Something bad had happened.
376
00:28:19,875 --> 00:28:21,251
I tried to call.
377
00:28:21,252 --> 00:28:23,586
I didn't have no money
at the time,
378
00:28:23,587 --> 00:28:25,755
and my phone wouldn't let me
call long distance,
379
00:28:25,756 --> 00:28:29,969
so I tried to call collect,
and my grandpa hung up on me.
380
00:28:29,970 --> 00:28:31,595
He didn't want to...
381
00:28:31,596 --> 00:28:33,931
he didn't even want to pay
$2 to talk to me
382
00:28:33,932 --> 00:28:36,600
to tell me my brother was dead.
383
00:28:38,521 --> 00:28:41,565
I had to actually
get my aunt to call
384
00:28:41,566 --> 00:28:43,233
and find out what was going on,
385
00:28:43,234 --> 00:28:48,281
and then she called me back,
and my first thought was...
386
00:28:48,282 --> 00:28:50,742
just because on the phone
she says,
387
00:28:50,743 --> 00:28:52,243
"Do you know Jason Burkett?"
388
00:28:52,244 --> 00:28:53,703
I said, "Yeah."
389
00:28:53,704 --> 00:28:55,456
She said,
"Well, something's happened,
390
00:28:55,457 --> 00:28:58,667
and your brother's dead,"
and, uh...
391
00:29:12,683 --> 00:29:14,935
My... my first thought was,
you know,
392
00:29:14,936 --> 00:29:18,439
Jason was just driving,
being stupid
393
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,277
the way he normally was
and had wrecked,
394
00:29:22,278 --> 00:29:23,653
and then she told me no,
395
00:29:23,654 --> 00:29:26,740
that Jason shot my brother
over a car.
396
00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:29,993
I... I just fell out.
397
00:29:29,994 --> 00:29:31,996
I fell out.
398
00:29:34,291 --> 00:29:38,086
My uncle came
and picked me up, and, uh...
399
00:29:39,129 --> 00:29:41,632
We just went driving around.
400
00:29:41,633 --> 00:29:43,550
- And your father?
401
00:29:43,551 --> 00:29:44,927
Where was he?
402
00:29:44,928 --> 00:29:46,595
- He was in prison.
403
00:29:46,596 --> 00:29:48,430
- How serious?
404
00:29:50,267 --> 00:29:51,643
- Well, it was the first time
405
00:29:51,644 --> 00:29:55,313
he was in jail for murder,
in prison for murder.
406
00:29:55,314 --> 00:29:57,649
- Life sentence?
407
00:29:57,650 --> 00:30:00,152
- Well, no.
408
00:30:00,153 --> 00:30:03,823
He... he was doing
his 15 year sentence first,
409
00:30:03,824 --> 00:30:05,491
and then he was out
for about a year,
410
00:30:05,492 --> 00:30:08,870
and then he went
and got a life sentence,
411
00:30:08,871 --> 00:30:11,123
and he's just getting out
after that.
412
00:30:12,583 --> 00:30:15,252
- And you flew in
for the funeral?
413
00:30:15,253 --> 00:30:16,879
- Yeah, I flew in
for the funeral.
414
00:30:19,341 --> 00:30:24,345
The cops said I had jumped bond,
and the cops were there to...
415
00:30:24,346 --> 00:30:30,060
to take me to jail
over my brother's...
416
00:30:31,771 --> 00:30:34,440
Can I tell 'em
what it was for or...
417
00:30:34,441 --> 00:30:36,442
I mean, would it be okay
to tell 'em,
418
00:30:36,443 --> 00:30:38,862
you know, it was
a drug possession?
419
00:30:38,863 --> 00:30:41,364
- So you took the jail time
for your brother,
420
00:30:41,365 --> 00:30:42,740
and you were arrested?
421
00:30:42,741 --> 00:30:44,410
- Yeah, at the funeral.
422
00:30:44,411 --> 00:30:45,828
The cops came in there.
423
00:30:45,829 --> 00:30:49,999
There was six cops came in
and identified me
424
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,504
and told me they were gonna
take me to jail right then.
425
00:30:54,505 --> 00:30:56,381
I asked them, you know,
could I at least stay
426
00:30:56,382 --> 00:30:58,383
for my brother's funeral.
427
00:30:58,384 --> 00:31:00,886
- And the teardrops,
the tattoos,
428
00:31:00,887 --> 00:31:02,847
what do they signify?
429
00:31:02,848 --> 00:31:07,101
- I lost my...
my brother and my sister.
430
00:31:07,102 --> 00:31:08,477
- Brother murdered.
431
00:31:08,478 --> 00:31:10,939
Your sister,
what happened to her?
432
00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:12,524
- She was coming to my house,
433
00:31:12,525 --> 00:31:16,195
and she crossed the freeway,
434
00:31:16,196 --> 00:31:18,530
and she got ran over by a car.
435
00:31:21,202 --> 00:31:24,829
- Tell me about
your brother Jeremy.
436
00:31:24,830 --> 00:31:26,664
Can you show us?
437
00:31:35,217 --> 00:31:38,136
- Jeremy was... he was...
438
00:31:38,137 --> 00:31:40,055
he was just the golden child.
439
00:31:43,726 --> 00:31:47,063
He was a good kid,
trusted his friends.
440
00:31:52,444 --> 00:31:58,116
He would get in trouble just...
just to...
441
00:31:58,117 --> 00:32:00,077
to have that attention,
442
00:32:00,078 --> 00:32:01,870
but he wouldn't
do nothing serious.
443
00:32:01,871 --> 00:32:04,040
He would... he would never
do anything too serious.
444
00:32:04,041 --> 00:32:08,211
He got in trouble for
making people laugh, you know,
445
00:32:08,212 --> 00:32:10,630
talking during class, you know,
stuff like that.
446
00:32:10,631 --> 00:32:12,131
He was a very sociable person.
447
00:32:12,132 --> 00:32:14,718
Everybody loved him, and, uh...
448
00:32:17,055 --> 00:32:18,722
Everybody said that
I was the one
449
00:32:18,723 --> 00:32:23,603
that was supposed to be dead
before I was 21 and not Jeremy.
450
00:32:23,604 --> 00:32:24,980
- And you loved him.
451
00:32:24,981 --> 00:32:26,982
- Of course.
452
00:32:30,069 --> 00:32:32,822
He was my...
he was my best friend.
453
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:36,867
He was my best friend
growing up.
454
00:32:36,868 --> 00:32:38,536
He's all I had.
455
00:32:41,749 --> 00:32:43,333
- You took care of him.
456
00:32:46,296 --> 00:32:47,963
- I tried.
457
00:32:50,676 --> 00:32:54,762
Turns out the only thing
I did was hurt him.
458
00:32:54,763 --> 00:32:57,557
I introduced him to the people
that killed him.
459
00:33:07,069 --> 00:33:08,445
He'd tell me all the time,
460
00:33:08,446 --> 00:33:11,114
it was me and him
against the world.
461
00:33:14,327 --> 00:33:16,454
I tell my wife
the same thing now.
462
00:33:19,458 --> 00:33:21,459
It's just me and him
against the world.
463
00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:33,722
- I believe from the time
that we got the initial call
464
00:33:33,723 --> 00:33:35,767
until they were caught,
it was within a week.
465
00:33:35,768 --> 00:33:38,561
It was, I believe,
five to seven days.
466
00:33:38,562 --> 00:33:42,023
- And you arrived at the scene
where they were apprehended?
467
00:33:42,024 --> 00:33:43,484
- Yes, sir.
468
00:33:43,485 --> 00:33:45,903
- Can you describe?
469
00:33:45,904 --> 00:33:47,279
Was it mayhem?
470
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:48,781
- Yes, sir, it was.
471
00:33:48,782 --> 00:33:50,449
There was a truck stop...
472
00:33:50,450 --> 00:33:52,410
actually, the truck stop's
not there any more,
473
00:33:52,411 --> 00:33:54,579
but it was at the... kind of
the side parking lot
474
00:33:54,580 --> 00:33:55,955
of a truck stop,
475
00:33:55,956 --> 00:33:57,791
and there was
an abandoned warehouse,
476
00:33:57,792 --> 00:34:00,126
and then on the other side
of that, an apartment complex,
477
00:34:00,127 --> 00:34:03,631
so the entire scene spanned
from that parking lot
478
00:34:03,632 --> 00:34:06,133
all the way well into
the apartment complex.
479
00:34:09,221 --> 00:34:10,889
There was shotgun shells.
480
00:34:10,890 --> 00:34:13,392
There was cartridge casings
where they had exchanged fire
481
00:34:13,393 --> 00:34:15,185
with the officers
that were there.
482
00:34:15,186 --> 00:34:16,561
There was wrecked vehicles,
483
00:34:16,562 --> 00:34:19,065
and, I mean, there was
just people everywhere.
484
00:34:21,068 --> 00:34:24,028
- And the police officer
was run over?
485
00:34:24,029 --> 00:34:25,530
- Yes, sir, his leg.
486
00:34:28,410 --> 00:34:30,244
There was a vehicle
wrecked out,
487
00:34:30,245 --> 00:34:32,579
and all the glass
in the vehicle
488
00:34:32,580 --> 00:34:35,249
had shattered
from the gunshots.
489
00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:38,837
Burkett and Perry both sustained
gunshot wounds.
490
00:34:38,838 --> 00:34:42,173
I believe Jason Burkett
was shot three times,
491
00:34:42,174 --> 00:34:43,675
if I'm not mistaken,
492
00:34:43,676 --> 00:34:45,760
and I'm not really certain
about Michael Perry,
493
00:34:45,761 --> 00:34:48,389
but they... they both had wounds
from gunshots
494
00:34:48,390 --> 00:34:51,475
and obviously glass cuts
and scrapes.
495
00:35:19,799 --> 00:35:22,302
- So there was a wild,
hot pursuit,
496
00:35:22,303 --> 00:35:24,929
and you were
in this wild chase.
497
00:35:24,930 --> 00:35:26,890
Did you actually open fire
at them or...
498
00:35:26,891 --> 00:35:28,266
- What had happened...
499
00:35:28,267 --> 00:35:30,226
- I don't want to be
too indiscreet, but I think...
500
00:35:30,227 --> 00:35:31,604
- Well, I can tell you.
501
00:35:31,605 --> 00:35:32,980
I can tell you.
I pled guilty.
502
00:35:32,981 --> 00:35:35,316
I've got 10 years done on
a 15 year sentence for it, so...
503
00:35:35,317 --> 00:35:37,234
- I see, yeah.
- We were asleep.
504
00:35:37,235 --> 00:35:39,153
We had been drinking
the night before.
505
00:35:39,154 --> 00:35:40,530
We were sleeping in the car
506
00:35:40,531 --> 00:35:42,199
because we couldn't
get to the motel,
507
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,201
which was on
the other side of a fence.
508
00:35:46,287 --> 00:35:48,705
I don't remember this other guy
that was in the car with us.
509
00:35:48,706 --> 00:35:50,082
I don't know
how he got with us.
510
00:35:50,083 --> 00:35:51,459
I don't know his name.
511
00:35:51,460 --> 00:35:53,169
I don't know anything
about him.
512
00:35:53,170 --> 00:35:54,754
Michael Perry and me
were drinking,
513
00:35:54,755 --> 00:35:58,258
and somehow this guy
got with us that night.
514
00:35:58,259 --> 00:36:02,721
I remember getting woke up
and getting shot in the car.
515
00:36:02,722 --> 00:36:04,097
I looked around.
516
00:36:04,098 --> 00:36:05,557
Michael Perry
wasn't next to me.
517
00:36:05,558 --> 00:36:06,976
It was some other kid
next to me,
518
00:36:06,977 --> 00:36:08,436
but Perry was in the backseat,
519
00:36:08,437 --> 00:36:11,272
and Perry tried to get
out of the car in the back,
520
00:36:11,273 --> 00:36:12,649
and then he shut the door.
521
00:36:12,650 --> 00:36:15,735
I started the truck,
and I went to flee,
522
00:36:15,736 --> 00:36:17,780
and everybody says,
"You shouldn't have ran.
523
00:36:17,781 --> 00:36:19,156
You shouldn't have ran."
524
00:36:19,157 --> 00:36:20,824
I had just been shot,
525
00:36:20,825 --> 00:36:23,327
and the only way for me
to not to get shot again
526
00:36:23,328 --> 00:36:24,996
was to get out of there,
527
00:36:24,997 --> 00:36:27,165
and I wasn't thinking clearly.
528
00:36:27,166 --> 00:36:28,583
I didn't know about a murder.
529
00:36:28,584 --> 00:36:30,418
I didn't know about
what they were looking...
530
00:36:30,419 --> 00:36:31,795
I didn't know the extent.
531
00:36:31,796 --> 00:36:33,421
I didn't even know
they knew who I was.
532
00:36:33,422 --> 00:36:36,300
And when I drove off,
533
00:36:36,301 --> 00:36:37,843
the officer was
right in front of me.
534
00:36:37,844 --> 00:36:39,262
I drove to the right,
535
00:36:39,263 --> 00:36:42,808
and he shot me through the door
right here in my arm.
536
00:36:42,809 --> 00:36:45,477
- How badly were you wounded?
537
00:36:45,478 --> 00:36:46,853
- I was shot right here.
538
00:36:46,854 --> 00:36:48,355
- Can you show it higher for me?
539
00:36:48,356 --> 00:36:50,899
- I was shot right here
in my wrist.
540
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:53,736
I was shot right here
in my hand, my finger.
541
00:36:53,737 --> 00:36:56,030
I was shot right here.
542
00:36:56,031 --> 00:36:57,865
I was shot right here,
543
00:36:57,866 --> 00:37:01,203
and I was shot right here.
544
00:37:01,204 --> 00:37:05,541
Right here, I had a piece
of the car door in my side.
545
00:37:05,542 --> 00:37:08,877
- Still lodged in your side?
546
00:37:08,878 --> 00:37:11,381
So how do you get through
a metal detector?
547
00:37:11,382 --> 00:37:13,925
- Well, it came out afterwards.
It came out.
548
00:37:13,926 --> 00:37:15,719
It did finally come out
in the jail.
549
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:19,515
Right here in my collarbone,
I had a piece of glass
550
00:37:19,516 --> 00:37:22,143
from the car door, went inside.
551
00:37:26,148 --> 00:37:28,942
I crashed into a building
because I couldn't steer.
552
00:37:28,943 --> 00:37:30,611
My blood's all in the truck.
553
00:37:30,612 --> 00:37:32,946
They said,
"Well, your DNA's on the gun."
554
00:37:32,947 --> 00:37:34,573
My DNA's on everything
in there.
555
00:37:34,574 --> 00:37:37,410
I was shot.
My DNA was on Michael Perry.
556
00:37:37,411 --> 00:37:39,912
My DNA was on every seat
in there from being shot.
557
00:37:39,913 --> 00:37:42,040
Blood went everywhere.
558
00:37:46,838 --> 00:37:50,090
Whenever I crashed,
I jumped out and ran.
559
00:37:50,091 --> 00:37:51,467
I ran.
560
00:37:51,468 --> 00:37:53,510
I ran in the building.
561
00:37:53,511 --> 00:37:55,430
There was cops
shooting at the building
562
00:37:55,431 --> 00:37:56,931
where we were crashed into.
563
00:37:56,932 --> 00:37:59,893
They were shooting
from every direction.
564
00:37:59,894 --> 00:38:04,065
The window in the back
of the building's like this.
565
00:38:04,066 --> 00:38:05,691
You can't get through it.
566
00:38:05,692 --> 00:38:08,778
I shot one time with the gun
through the window.
567
00:38:08,779 --> 00:38:10,363
I probably shouldn't
have done that,
568
00:38:10,364 --> 00:38:12,156
but I was trapped,
and I was panicking.
569
00:38:12,157 --> 00:38:13,700
I didn't know what to do.
570
00:38:13,701 --> 00:38:16,203
And when we got through there,
we ran to some apartments,
571
00:38:16,204 --> 00:38:20,415
and, you know, I... I carried Perry
half the way,
572
00:38:20,416 --> 00:38:23,586
but, I mean,
we got to the apartment.
573
00:38:23,587 --> 00:38:27,006
- You... you dealt with it
like real tough men.
574
00:38:27,007 --> 00:38:28,925
I remember reading somewhere
575
00:38:28,926 --> 00:38:31,929
that Michael Perry shouted,
"This is it.
576
00:38:31,930 --> 00:38:34,431
Put the balls at the walls,"
or something.
577
00:38:34,432 --> 00:38:37,101
"Let's bolt.
Let's fight back."
578
00:38:37,102 --> 00:38:39,436
Can you remember
something like that?
579
00:38:39,437 --> 00:38:42,107
- I remember reading that
they said, "Balls to the walls,"
580
00:38:42,108 --> 00:38:43,733
or, you know, something.
581
00:38:43,734 --> 00:38:45,110
I don't recall him saying it.
582
00:38:45,111 --> 00:38:46,486
He could have said it.
583
00:38:46,487 --> 00:38:48,697
- Too much commotion.
Too many bullets flying.
584
00:38:48,698 --> 00:38:50,908
- I didn't really understand
what was happening.
585
00:38:50,909 --> 00:38:53,244
All I knew is, where we were at,
we could not stay there.
586
00:38:53,245 --> 00:38:54,662
- Yeah.
587
00:38:54,663 --> 00:38:57,791
- And... and he was screaming,
"Balls to the walls," they say.
588
00:38:57,792 --> 00:39:00,961
- Well, um, how can I say?
589
00:39:00,962 --> 00:39:04,172
I... I don't want to go into
the details of...
590
00:39:04,173 --> 00:39:05,590
of what happened,
591
00:39:05,591 --> 00:39:10,388
but fact is that
three people were killed.
592
00:39:10,389 --> 00:39:11,806
- Mm-hmm.
593
00:39:11,807 --> 00:39:17,312
- And you deny that you were
even close to the scene or...
594
00:39:17,313 --> 00:39:18,689
how... how do you...
595
00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:20,274
- Well, there's no longer
a question.
596
00:39:20,275 --> 00:39:22,192
There's no longer a question
of my innocence.
597
00:39:22,193 --> 00:39:23,652
That's... question
is out the door.
598
00:39:23,653 --> 00:39:26,239
The question is, what is anyone
gonna do about it now?
599
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,993
I mean, a perfect example is,
you're here with these guys.
600
00:39:29,994 --> 00:39:31,828
They show up
at your hotel room in a car.
601
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:33,956
You're gonna assume that
that car is...
602
00:39:33,957 --> 00:39:35,458
you know,
these are your friends,
603
00:39:35,459 --> 00:39:37,418
so when Jason shows up
to pick me up in a car,
604
00:39:37,419 --> 00:39:38,836
I'm gonna assume it's okay.
605
00:39:38,837 --> 00:39:40,337
You get in it,
and you get arrested,
606
00:39:40,338 --> 00:39:42,924
and you come to find out he just
murdered someone from that car,
607
00:39:42,925 --> 00:39:44,593
you're gonna end up
on Texas death row.
608
00:39:44,594 --> 00:39:45,969
You're gonna end up right here
609
00:39:45,970 --> 00:39:47,554
because you trusted
one of these guys
610
00:39:47,555 --> 00:39:49,306
to show up and pick you up
in a... in a real car
611
00:39:49,307 --> 00:39:51,266
that wasn't just stolen.
612
00:39:51,267 --> 00:39:54,061
- But trusting in Jason
was a bad choice.
613
00:39:54,062 --> 00:39:56,314
- Oh, absolutely.
- I mean, let's face it.
614
00:39:56,315 --> 00:39:59,150
He was some sort of a bad apple,
and so... so were you.
615
00:39:59,151 --> 00:40:01,779
- I was homeless and starving,
so it was...
616
00:40:01,780 --> 00:40:05,199
- And using drugs and stealing.
617
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,701
- He offered me drugs.
He offered me a place to stay.
618
00:40:07,702 --> 00:40:09,996
He offered me food,
so I chose...
619
00:40:09,997 --> 00:40:11,623
I chose that,
which I shouldn't have.
620
00:40:11,624 --> 00:40:13,666
I regret it every...
every minute now.
621
00:40:13,667 --> 00:40:16,127
Cherish every minute, huh?
622
00:40:16,128 --> 00:40:17,504
Cherish every minute.
623
00:40:17,505 --> 00:40:20,299
Make the most of it because,
you know,
624
00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:22,092
they can... they can...
they can do you like me.
625
00:40:22,093 --> 00:40:23,928
Be in the wrong situation
at the wrong time,
626
00:40:23,929 --> 00:40:25,638
and there's no telling
where you end up.
627
00:40:25,639 --> 00:40:28,016
You might want to get out of
Texas as soon as possible, huh?
628
00:40:28,017 --> 00:40:29,810
They might arrest you
any... any second, huh?
629
00:41:10,355 --> 00:41:11,772
- I went over
to my buddy's house.
630
00:41:11,773 --> 00:41:14,568
There was a guy there,
and he wanted to fight me,
631
00:41:14,569 --> 00:41:20,031
and he run up on me
as I got out of the truck,
632
00:41:20,032 --> 00:41:22,285
and... and I just
kind of blew him off.
633
00:41:22,286 --> 00:41:23,661
You know what I mean?
634
00:41:23,662 --> 00:41:25,788
"Just go on, man,
go on about your business."
635
00:41:25,789 --> 00:41:28,416
And everybody said he was saying
he was gonna stab me
636
00:41:28,417 --> 00:41:30,251
when I got out of the truck.
637
00:41:30,252 --> 00:41:31,753
You know,
it kind of pissed me off,
638
00:41:31,754 --> 00:41:34,423
so I... I went back,
found the dude,
639
00:41:34,424 --> 00:41:37,926
and run up on him,
and I was taking off my shirt,
640
00:41:37,927 --> 00:41:40,763
and I threw my... threw my
shirt up like that, you know,
641
00:41:40,764 --> 00:41:42,599
and threw it up over my elbow.
642
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,101
I was gonna take it off,
and when I did that,
643
00:41:45,102 --> 00:41:47,770
he hit me right here
with a screwdriver, you know,
644
00:41:47,771 --> 00:41:50,441
a screwdriver about that long,
and it was a Phillips,
645
00:41:50,442 --> 00:41:52,610
you know, them little skinny,
long screwdrivers.
646
00:41:52,611 --> 00:41:56,614
It sunk in to the handle,
and after that, uh...
647
00:41:56,615 --> 00:41:59,200
- All the way to the handle?
- All the way to the handle.
648
00:41:59,201 --> 00:42:00,702
- How did it happen?
649
00:42:00,703 --> 00:42:04,873
- Man, it's probably,
probably about right in there.
650
00:42:04,874 --> 00:42:07,877
It went straight...
straight through under my arm,
651
00:42:07,878 --> 00:42:09,253
into my chest,
652
00:42:09,254 --> 00:42:11,672
and I never went to the hospital
or anything.
653
00:42:11,673 --> 00:42:14,091
- And what did you feel?
You felt the...
654
00:42:14,092 --> 00:42:16,595
- Yeah, just a...
I felt the... the...
655
00:42:16,596 --> 00:42:18,889
you know, the pressure of it
when it hit.
656
00:42:18,890 --> 00:42:20,265
That's all I felt,
657
00:42:20,266 --> 00:42:21,975
and I kind of jumped back
out the way,
658
00:42:21,976 --> 00:42:25,939
and... and I looked,
and my buddy threw me a knife,
659
00:42:25,940 --> 00:42:27,815
and I looked down at the knife
on the ground,
660
00:42:27,816 --> 00:42:29,192
and I was like, you know,
661
00:42:29,193 --> 00:42:31,194
I'm thinking to myself
in my head, you know,
662
00:42:31,195 --> 00:42:33,529
"I'm going home
to my kids today."
663
00:42:33,530 --> 00:42:35,366
You know, so I didn't even
pick it up,
664
00:42:35,367 --> 00:42:38,786
and then my other buddy come out
running by the yard,
665
00:42:38,787 --> 00:42:42,624
and I had to be at work
in 30 minutes.
666
00:42:42,625 --> 00:42:45,001
Matter of fact, I roof...
667
00:42:45,002 --> 00:42:49,005
I was roofing a house
with Jason's brother.
668
00:42:49,006 --> 00:42:51,508
What is it, Chris Burkett?
669
00:42:51,509 --> 00:42:53,010
And I was roofing
a house with him.
670
00:42:53,011 --> 00:42:54,679
- Chris was not in jail
at that time.
671
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,472
- Nah.
672
00:42:56,473 --> 00:42:58,057
- And you went to hospital?
673
00:42:58,058 --> 00:42:59,684
- Nah.
674
00:42:59,685 --> 00:43:01,144
They was asking me
675
00:43:01,145 --> 00:43:03,021
if I needed to go
to the hospital or anything,
676
00:43:03,022 --> 00:43:04,398
but it just...
some, like, puss
677
00:43:04,399 --> 00:43:05,941
and a little bit of blood
come out,
678
00:43:05,942 --> 00:43:08,777
and, you know,
I thought I was good.
679
00:43:08,778 --> 00:43:10,905
Evidently, I guess I am.
680
00:43:10,906 --> 00:43:12,699
So I was lucky there.
681
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:22,626
- But you have never been in...
in real trouble with the law?
682
00:43:22,627 --> 00:43:24,003
- I had a felony.
683
00:43:24,004 --> 00:43:26,380
That's the only bad...
bad one I had.
684
00:43:26,381 --> 00:43:27,757
- But you're a working man.
685
00:43:27,758 --> 00:43:29,134
- Yes, sir.
- You have a job?
686
00:43:29,135 --> 00:43:31,011
- Yeah, I ain't been in trouble
in four years.
687
00:43:31,012 --> 00:43:33,054
- Can I see your hands?
- Yeah.
688
00:43:33,055 --> 00:43:36,809
- When we shook hands,
I noticed your calluses.
689
00:43:36,810 --> 00:43:38,811
You are working...
- Yeah.
690
00:43:38,812 --> 00:43:40,813
- In a paint shop?
- Yep.
691
00:43:40,814 --> 00:43:42,481
- Cars.
- Yes, sir.
692
00:43:42,482 --> 00:43:44,483
- Solid work.
- Yes, sir.
693
00:43:44,484 --> 00:43:46,069
- And the tattoo in here?
694
00:43:46,070 --> 00:43:48,822
Can I see this?
Can you show it?
695
00:43:48,823 --> 00:43:51,825
- Bailey.
696
00:43:51,826 --> 00:43:53,952
- You had been with her
when you met Burkett?
697
00:43:53,953 --> 00:43:55,413
- Nah.
- Not yet, uh-huh.
698
00:43:55,414 --> 00:43:56,789
- No.
699
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:58,916
I've been with her
for three years,
700
00:43:58,917 --> 00:44:01,711
and I got a 17 month old baby
with her.
701
00:44:01,712 --> 00:44:04,089
- Oh, yeah.
So you are staying with her?
702
00:44:04,090 --> 00:44:05,883
- Yeah.
703
00:44:05,884 --> 00:44:07,426
- Now the tattoo is forever.
704
00:44:07,427 --> 00:44:09,261
- Yeah, it's forever.
705
00:44:09,262 --> 00:44:11,597
They just don't come off.
706
00:44:11,598 --> 00:44:16,186
- And what happens if
the relationship unravels?
707
00:44:16,187 --> 00:44:18,146
What happens to "Bailey"?
708
00:44:18,147 --> 00:44:20,482
- Guess I'm gonna have to get
"Bailey sucks" right there.
709
00:44:30,787 --> 00:44:33,455
- Can you talk about
Jason Burkett?
710
00:44:33,456 --> 00:44:35,791
How did you meet him?
How did you know him?
711
00:44:35,792 --> 00:44:38,251
What do you know about him?
712
00:44:38,252 --> 00:44:40,129
- First time I ever met him,
713
00:44:40,130 --> 00:44:42,048
seemed like a pretty cool guy,
you know?
714
00:44:42,049 --> 00:44:43,424
So we hung out,
715
00:44:43,425 --> 00:44:45,718
and I introduced him to
a few girls and everything,
716
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,473
and then we used to
go huntin' together.
717
00:44:51,643 --> 00:44:54,561
One time, he tried to kill me.
718
00:44:54,562 --> 00:44:56,730
I introduced him
to these girls,
719
00:44:56,731 --> 00:44:58,900
and her dad and him
had something going on.
720
00:44:58,901 --> 00:45:00,276
I don't know.
721
00:45:00,277 --> 00:45:02,529
Well, anyway, he thought
I wanted to get with that girl
722
00:45:02,530 --> 00:45:05,031
and come over
to another girl's house
723
00:45:05,032 --> 00:45:07,034
and rushed me with a gun.
724
00:45:07,035 --> 00:45:09,078
Well, I had this girl
tell me to come outside,
725
00:45:09,079 --> 00:45:10,830
and I was eating supper,
726
00:45:10,831 --> 00:45:12,915
and he rushed me with a gun.
727
00:45:12,916 --> 00:45:14,500
So we fought
for about 45 minutes
728
00:45:14,501 --> 00:45:18,630
with a gun to my head
in this girl's house.
729
00:45:18,631 --> 00:45:22,342
It was a .22 caliber
single-shot pistol.
730
00:45:22,343 --> 00:45:25,346
Yeah, he held... held it
to my head,
731
00:45:25,347 --> 00:45:28,349
banged me in the head with it.
732
00:45:28,350 --> 00:45:30,852
We were fighting all through
the house with the gun
733
00:45:30,853 --> 00:45:33,564
till I locked myself
in this bedroom,
734
00:45:33,565 --> 00:45:35,399
and he was gonna
kick in the door,
735
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,693
so I just opened the door
and let him in
736
00:45:37,694 --> 00:45:40,529
because I didn't want him to
tear this girl's dad's house up,
737
00:45:40,530 --> 00:45:43,116
and after that,
we started fighting again,
738
00:45:43,117 --> 00:45:45,827
and he pinned me on the bed,
and he pulled the trigger.
739
00:45:45,828 --> 00:45:47,412
- Where did the bullet go?
740
00:45:47,413 --> 00:45:49,914
- Nah, it misfired,
741
00:45:49,915 --> 00:45:51,542
because the bullet
come out the gun,
742
00:45:51,543 --> 00:45:54,753
and you could tell on
a 22 bullet, there's like...
743
00:45:54,754 --> 00:45:57,089
it's just that round,
flat piece on the bottom.
744
00:45:57,090 --> 00:45:58,924
Well, if the firing pin
ain't long enough,
745
00:45:58,925 --> 00:46:02,596
it don't hit it, and...
and it don't... it won't go off,
746
00:46:02,597 --> 00:46:06,933
but it hit it, but I don't know
why it didn't go off.
747
00:46:06,934 --> 00:46:08,810
- You were lucky.
- Yeah.
748
00:46:08,811 --> 00:46:10,396
- Very lucky.
749
00:46:10,397 --> 00:46:11,898
- Yeah, I kind of
blacked out there.
750
00:46:15,027 --> 00:46:19,031
But, yeah, real lucky.
751
00:46:19,032 --> 00:46:21,533
And then him killing
those people, man,
752
00:46:21,534 --> 00:46:23,535
I feel sorry
for their families.
753
00:46:30,586 --> 00:46:33,796
Me and my friend Big Justin
was up at the bar one time,
754
00:46:33,797 --> 00:46:37,843
and he come up there with these
new cars, him and Perry,
755
00:46:37,844 --> 00:46:39,220
and we're like, "Man",
756
00:46:39,221 --> 00:46:40,971
where'd y'all get
these new cars at?"
757
00:46:40,972 --> 00:46:42,723
He's like,
"oh, we was holding hands"...
758
00:46:42,724 --> 00:46:44,099
him and Perry was holding hands
759
00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:47,187
and scratched off
a lottery ticket together
760
00:46:47,188 --> 00:46:49,314
and won them two cars.
761
00:46:49,315 --> 00:46:51,107
Well, me and my buddy
knew it wasn't right,
762
00:46:51,108 --> 00:46:53,276
because they're both felons,
you know what I mean?
763
00:46:53,277 --> 00:46:54,654
Ain't nobody gonna sell them...
764
00:46:54,655 --> 00:46:56,656
ain't neither one
got a driver's license,
765
00:46:56,657 --> 00:47:00,159
so, you know, and... and the cars
were, like, fully loaded,
766
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,830
CD's, skateboards,
and stuff like that in there,
767
00:47:03,831 --> 00:47:07,751
and so we knew something...
something was up with it,
768
00:47:07,752 --> 00:47:11,380
and he started giving people
joy rides up at the bar.
769
00:47:17,012 --> 00:47:19,597
- Jason and Michael
came up to the bar
770
00:47:19,598 --> 00:47:22,309
to show off two new vehicles
that they had purchased,
771
00:47:22,310 --> 00:47:27,106
and at first, we...
nobody really understood.
772
00:47:27,107 --> 00:47:29,858
They explained that they had
purchased a lottery ticket,
773
00:47:29,859 --> 00:47:32,237
and that's how they got
the money to buy the cars,
774
00:47:32,238 --> 00:47:36,199
and at that time, it started
getting a little weird.
775
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,537
- What didn't sound right
about this?
776
00:47:39,538 --> 00:47:42,248
- The amount of
the lottery ticket was $4,000.
777
00:47:42,249 --> 00:47:44,208
They said they cashed it
in a gas station.
778
00:47:44,209 --> 00:47:47,253
That doesn't usually happen.
779
00:47:47,254 --> 00:47:49,089
The vehicles themselves
didn't look like
780
00:47:49,090 --> 00:47:50,465
they just came off a car lot.
781
00:47:50,466 --> 00:47:51,842
- You drove these cars?
782
00:47:51,843 --> 00:47:53,677
- I rode in them.
I didn't drive them.
783
00:47:53,678 --> 00:47:55,178
Yeah, they...
Jason and Michael
784
00:47:55,179 --> 00:47:57,180
were kind of giving everybody
test drives,
785
00:47:57,181 --> 00:48:00,852
and I rode in both vehicles.
786
00:48:03,731 --> 00:48:05,815
The... the red Camaro,
when I rode in it,
787
00:48:05,816 --> 00:48:08,277
they were showing off guns.
788
00:48:08,278 --> 00:48:09,695
There was a 12 gauge shotgun,
789
00:48:09,696 --> 00:48:11,280
and I don't remember
the other one,
790
00:48:11,281 --> 00:48:14,950
but I did see 'em in the trunk
of the red Camaro that night.
791
00:48:14,951 --> 00:48:18,496
From what I heard, rumors,
you know, they were into...
792
00:48:18,497 --> 00:48:21,791
initially planning on stealing
a car of my roommate
793
00:48:21,792 --> 00:48:23,168
at the house I was staying at,
794
00:48:23,169 --> 00:48:24,628
and that scared
the hell out of me,
795
00:48:24,629 --> 00:48:26,005
'cause that could've been me.
796
00:48:26,006 --> 00:48:27,715
You know, if he would've
decided to come
797
00:48:27,716 --> 00:48:30,217
and get the car in my driveway,
where would I be?
798
00:48:31,011 --> 00:48:33,472
I've... I've managed
to block it.
799
00:48:33,473 --> 00:48:36,141
I've managed to try
to not deal with it
800
00:48:36,142 --> 00:48:38,310
and not think about it.
801
00:48:43,067 --> 00:48:47,904
I guess being in the situations
that I've been in,
802
00:48:47,905 --> 00:48:49,906
just from being employed
at that bar,
803
00:48:49,907 --> 00:48:54,745
I have seen so many awful things
that I don't deal with them.
804
00:48:54,746 --> 00:48:56,789
I just kind of put them back.
805
00:48:58,500 --> 00:49:01,044
- Did Jason brag about crimes?
806
00:49:01,045 --> 00:49:03,838
- He never bragged to me
and my buddy Big Justin.
807
00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:05,507
We didn't even know
what had happened,
808
00:49:05,508 --> 00:49:09,595
and they was... they come got us
from Justin's house,
809
00:49:09,596 --> 00:49:11,931
the police did,
and they took us up there,
810
00:49:11,932 --> 00:49:14,141
and they was like,
"Y'all read the paper?"
811
00:49:14,142 --> 00:49:16,852
And I told 'em, well,
I couldn't read,
812
00:49:16,853 --> 00:49:18,772
and then they didn't
believe me,
813
00:49:18,773 --> 00:49:21,233
and they looked at my record
and found out I can't read,
814
00:49:21,234 --> 00:49:24,069
and then, so they read
the paper to me,
815
00:49:24,070 --> 00:49:26,696
and they told me
what they had done.
816
00:49:26,697 --> 00:49:28,074
- Mm-hmm.
817
00:49:28,075 --> 00:49:29,450
Do you read now?
818
00:49:29,451 --> 00:49:30,993
- Oh, yeah.
819
00:49:30,994 --> 00:49:34,038
- So late, you started to learn
how to read.
820
00:49:34,039 --> 00:49:35,540
- Yeah, I learned how to read.
821
00:49:35,541 --> 00:49:36,917
- Wonderful, yes?
822
00:49:36,918 --> 00:49:39,378
I find this
a great achievement.
823
00:49:39,379 --> 00:49:42,339
- Yeah, it is awesome.
824
00:49:42,340 --> 00:49:44,299
- You are much more
connected now.
825
00:49:44,300 --> 00:49:47,137
- Yeah.
826
00:49:47,138 --> 00:49:49,681
- How does it feel
not to be able to read?
827
00:49:49,682 --> 00:49:51,724
You have to be much smarter
than the others
828
00:49:51,725 --> 00:49:53,143
to understand the world anyway.
829
00:49:53,144 --> 00:49:54,812
- Yeah.
830
00:49:54,813 --> 00:49:57,648
It's... it's kind of tough
out there when you can't read,
831
00:49:57,649 --> 00:49:59,817
but, I mean,
'cause they ain't always have
832
00:49:59,818 --> 00:50:01,652
somebody gonna read it for you.
833
00:50:03,823 --> 00:50:07,117
But, I mean,
I learned how to read in jail
834
00:50:07,118 --> 00:50:10,829
so I could write letters
and read the letters,
835
00:50:10,830 --> 00:50:15,168
and other than that,
I don't plan on going back,
836
00:50:15,169 --> 00:50:18,504
but I'm glad I learned
how to read there.
837
00:50:18,505 --> 00:50:21,007
- And you are doing good now?
- Oh, yeah.
838
00:50:21,008 --> 00:50:23,302
Staying busy at the paint
and body shop.
839
00:50:23,303 --> 00:50:25,304
- Reading?
- Oh, yeah.
840
00:50:25,305 --> 00:50:26,805
- Writing?
841
00:50:26,806 --> 00:50:28,891
- Not much writing.
842
00:50:28,892 --> 00:50:30,350
A lot of sanding.
843
00:50:34,148 --> 00:50:38,234
- I'm interested in your
relationship with Michael Perry.
844
00:50:38,235 --> 00:50:39,862
How did you two meet?
845
00:50:39,863 --> 00:50:41,489
How does this thing happen?
846
00:50:41,490 --> 00:50:47,161
- In 2000,
I had a girlfriend in 2000.
847
00:50:47,162 --> 00:50:50,040
She had a friend named Miranda.
848
00:50:50,041 --> 00:50:51,708
I ended up going to jail,
849
00:50:51,709 --> 00:50:54,252
and Miranda, I seen her
on the side of the road
850
00:50:54,253 --> 00:50:56,755
arguing with Michael Perry,
and I said...
851
00:50:56,756 --> 00:50:58,716
I pulled over, and I asked her
what was going on,
852
00:50:58,717 --> 00:51:00,384
and she said,
"He's living in my trunk,
853
00:51:00,385 --> 00:51:01,761
"and I can't get him...
854
00:51:01,762 --> 00:51:03,429
"you know, he can't live there
no more.
855
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:04,805
"My dad's seen him.
856
00:51:04,806 --> 00:51:06,642
"My dad got in a fight with him
this morning.
857
00:51:06,643 --> 00:51:08,018
He can't live there."
858
00:51:08,019 --> 00:51:09,561
So he was living
in the trunk of a car,
859
00:51:09,562 --> 00:51:11,563
and I said, "Well, I don't know
what to tell you."
860
00:51:11,564 --> 00:51:13,273
And she asked me,
"Can he live with you?"
861
00:51:13,274 --> 00:51:14,650
And at that moment, I told her,
862
00:51:14,651 --> 00:51:16,486
"No, he can't live with me."
863
00:51:16,487 --> 00:51:19,030
And then, I looked at him,
and she's, like, sad and crying,
864
00:51:19,031 --> 00:51:22,408
and she said, "Please, let him
live with you just for a month."
865
00:51:22,409 --> 00:51:24,537
This was when we were living
in the camper trailer,
866
00:51:24,538 --> 00:51:26,914
and I told him,
"You can live with us.
867
00:51:26,915 --> 00:51:30,501
Get your stuff, put it
in my truck, and come home."
868
00:51:30,502 --> 00:51:35,465
And from that day on,
I fed him, gave him money,
869
00:51:35,466 --> 00:51:36,841
took care of him.
870
00:51:36,842 --> 00:51:40,095
He was like a...
like a little brother,
871
00:51:40,096 --> 00:51:42,055
kid brother
that was pushed on you,
872
00:51:42,056 --> 00:51:45,184
and... and when they... he's older
than me by a few months,
873
00:51:45,185 --> 00:51:47,311
but I had to take care of him
because he had nothing.
874
00:51:47,312 --> 00:51:49,063
He had nobody.
875
00:51:49,064 --> 00:51:51,567
Little did I know he had
a very supportive family.
876
00:51:51,568 --> 00:51:54,236
His mom and dad
were both supportive.
877
00:51:54,237 --> 00:51:55,779
He just didn't want
to follow rules.
878
00:51:55,780 --> 00:51:58,031
He was just like me
and didn't want to follow rules,
879
00:51:58,032 --> 00:51:59,950
and that's why he ended up
living with me,
880
00:51:59,951 --> 00:52:02,704
'cause they said,
"Work and you can live with us."
881
00:52:02,705 --> 00:52:04,539
He didn't want to work.
882
00:52:04,540 --> 00:52:08,918
- And you were sent on a
outward Bound trip into Florida.
883
00:52:08,919 --> 00:52:10,546
What happened?
What was that, yeah?
884
00:52:10,547 --> 00:52:12,381
- Well, you know,
I'm a city boy at heart,
885
00:52:12,382 --> 00:52:13,799
you know what I'm saying?
886
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,551
I'm really not into
the nature and bugs
887
00:52:15,552 --> 00:52:17,886
and... and the weather
and, you know.
888
00:52:17,887 --> 00:52:22,142
So, you know, when... they sent me
on a two week canoe trip.
889
00:52:22,143 --> 00:52:23,810
- Which sounds wonderful
for me, but...
890
00:52:23,811 --> 00:52:25,604
- Yeah, you know, you know,
I like to canoe,
891
00:52:25,605 --> 00:52:26,980
but what it...
what was...
892
00:52:26,981 --> 00:52:28,524
It wasn't the canoeing
that was bad.
893
00:52:28,525 --> 00:52:30,067
It was that it was
in the Everglades.
894
00:52:30,068 --> 00:52:31,986
I mean, we're seeing alligators
everywhere.
895
00:52:31,987 --> 00:52:33,362
Now, my question is...
896
00:52:33,363 --> 00:52:35,323
and I didn't even realize that
until I got here...
897
00:52:35,324 --> 00:52:36,867
what happened
if I would've fell out
898
00:52:36,868 --> 00:52:38,243
and got eaten by an alligator?
899
00:52:38,244 --> 00:52:39,745
Who would've been responsible?
900
00:52:39,746 --> 00:52:41,830
You know, did my parents sign
some type of waiver?
901
00:52:41,831 --> 00:52:43,749
Because there was
alligators everywhere.
902
00:52:43,750 --> 00:52:45,752
- Well, a young man of 13,
you better watch out
903
00:52:45,753 --> 00:52:47,545
and... and handle
the alligators well, yes.
904
00:52:47,546 --> 00:52:48,921
- Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
905
00:52:48,922 --> 00:52:50,506
- But what happened then?
You didn't...
906
00:52:50,507 --> 00:52:52,800
- Well, I think it was on
the third or fourth day.
907
00:52:52,801 --> 00:52:56,639
We would canoe until, like,
nighttime and pull in.
908
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,350
I guess they had certain
designations marked,
909
00:52:59,351 --> 00:53:01,310
and sometimes we'd pull in,
like, at midnight.
910
00:53:01,311 --> 00:53:03,688
There's bugs... you can reach out
and grab a handful of bugs,
911
00:53:03,689 --> 00:53:05,357
and then they'd want us
to cook dinner,
912
00:53:05,358 --> 00:53:07,067
and, you know, I'm like,
"Man, I can't."
913
00:53:07,068 --> 00:53:08,735
And one of the things
of the program was
914
00:53:08,736 --> 00:53:10,403
to teach you immediate...
915
00:53:10,404 --> 00:53:12,657
you know, every action
there's a... there's a reaction,
916
00:53:12,658 --> 00:53:14,617
so immediate consequences
to your decisions,
917
00:53:14,618 --> 00:53:16,202
and one of the things
I learned is that
918
00:53:16,203 --> 00:53:17,912
if I don't pay attention
to the lessons...
919
00:53:17,913 --> 00:53:19,413
we had these bags
for our property,
920
00:53:19,414 --> 00:53:22,000
and you had to seal them right,
or they wouldn't be waterproof.
921
00:53:22,001 --> 00:53:23,960
Well, I didn't listen,
and it fell in the water,
922
00:53:23,961 --> 00:53:26,129
and all my stuff got wet,
so I didn't have my own tent.
923
00:53:26,130 --> 00:53:27,798
I didn't have no
toilet paper any more,
924
00:53:27,799 --> 00:53:29,174
and I didn't like that.
925
00:53:29,175 --> 00:53:31,177
So basically, I... I was
my typical stubborn self,
926
00:53:31,178 --> 00:53:32,553
and I told them, "You know what?"
927
00:53:32,554 --> 00:53:34,305
I ain't doing this no more.
Take me home."
928
00:53:34,306 --> 00:53:36,265
- But you were not attacked
by alligators, but...
929
00:53:36,266 --> 00:53:38,059
- No, we were attacked
by monkeys, though.
930
00:53:38,060 --> 00:53:39,436
- By monkeys.
What happened?
931
00:53:39,437 --> 00:53:41,522
- Absolutely, monkeys
were jumping from one side
932
00:53:41,523 --> 00:53:42,940
to the trees
on the side we were at
933
00:53:42,941 --> 00:53:44,483
and come... trying
to come over there,
934
00:53:44,484 --> 00:53:47,277
and they couldn't figure out
where the monkeys came from,
935
00:53:47,946 --> 00:53:50,156
but there was
a whole bunch of them,
936
00:53:50,157 --> 00:53:51,658
a whole bunch.
937
00:53:51,659 --> 00:53:53,076
I wanted to get out
and get one,
938
00:53:53,077 --> 00:53:55,286
but they said
they have diseases, right?
939
00:54:29,367 --> 00:54:31,368
- So best... case scenario,
940
00:54:31,369 --> 00:54:34,748
if you are granted parole
in 2041,
941
00:54:34,749 --> 00:54:37,667
how old would you be then?
942
00:54:37,668 --> 00:54:39,169
Does this ever occur to you?
943
00:54:39,170 --> 00:54:40,712
Do you want to think about it?
944
00:54:40,713 --> 00:54:43,924
- I'll be 59, 60.
945
00:54:43,925 --> 00:54:45,301
I was 19.
946
00:54:45,302 --> 00:54:47,136
I have to do 40 years from 19,
947
00:54:47,137 --> 00:54:51,391
which will be 59 years old.
948
00:54:51,392 --> 00:54:52,726
Long time.
949
00:54:55,688 --> 00:54:58,857
- When it came to the phase
after your trial was over,
950
00:54:58,858 --> 00:55:03,237
for punishment phase,
your father showed up in court.
951
00:55:04,531 --> 00:55:06,282
Can you describe the scene?
952
00:55:07,910 --> 00:55:09,369
- I knew he was coming,
953
00:55:09,370 --> 00:55:11,955
and I knew what he was gonna
testify to,
954
00:55:11,956 --> 00:55:14,541
but to hear him testify,
it's like...
955
00:55:14,542 --> 00:55:16,418
I was born with neuroblastomas.
956
00:55:16,419 --> 00:55:19,464
I... I had 18 surgeries
by the time I was five,
957
00:55:19,465 --> 00:55:21,925
and I... I don't know
a lot about it
958
00:55:21,926 --> 00:55:25,845
because it's something
that I try to shy away from.
959
00:55:25,846 --> 00:55:28,432
I knew he was gonna testify
to my raising,
960
00:55:28,433 --> 00:55:30,726
and I was a...
in pain all the time,
961
00:55:30,727 --> 00:55:32,937
and he'd watch me cry to sleep,
and...
962
00:55:34,648 --> 00:55:36,983
It was difficult,
because I seen him cry.
963
00:55:36,984 --> 00:55:38,568
I mean, if you ever see my dad,
964
00:55:38,569 --> 00:55:42,906
he's 6'6 ", 6'7", 300 pounds,
big old guy, tattooed.
965
00:55:42,907 --> 00:55:44,741
- And they brought him
in from... from prison.
966
00:55:44,742 --> 00:55:46,118
- He came in from prison.
967
00:55:46,119 --> 00:55:48,287
- Is he still incarcerated?
968
00:55:48,288 --> 00:55:50,790
- He's right across the street
on Ellis Unit.
969
00:55:52,793 --> 00:55:55,003
- Mr. Burkett,
how are you doing?
970
00:55:55,004 --> 00:55:57,130
- Just... I'm doing fine.
971
00:55:57,131 --> 00:55:58,632
Doing fine.
Little sick.
972
00:55:58,633 --> 00:56:00,634
- How fine?
- Little bit sick.
973
00:56:00,635 --> 00:56:02,594
- Mm-hmm.
974
00:56:02,595 --> 00:56:05,014
You are in here
for how many years?
975
00:56:05,015 --> 00:56:06,432
- 40.
976
00:56:06,433 --> 00:56:08,017
- 40 years.
- Yes, sir.
977
00:56:08,018 --> 00:56:09,811
- Eight felony counts,
is that correct?
978
00:56:09,812 --> 00:56:12,231
- Yes, sir.
- That's pretty serious.
979
00:56:12,232 --> 00:56:13,732
- Yes, sir.
980
00:56:13,733 --> 00:56:17,736
- And you spent some time before
this 40 year sentence in jail.
981
00:56:17,737 --> 00:56:19,113
Is that correct?
982
00:56:19,114 --> 00:56:20,489
- Yes, sir.
- Yeah.
983
00:56:20,490 --> 00:56:22,993
- I've been in prison
five times.
984
00:56:22,994 --> 00:56:25,245
- How many years already?
985
00:56:25,246 --> 00:56:27,205
- A 2 year sentence,
a 5 year sentence,
986
00:56:27,206 --> 00:56:30,459
a 30 year sentence,
and then this 40.
987
00:56:30,460 --> 00:56:32,461
- That's a lot.
- Yes, sir.
988
00:56:32,462 --> 00:56:34,672
- What went wrong?
989
00:56:34,673 --> 00:56:37,008
- Drugs and alcohol.
990
00:56:37,009 --> 00:56:38,551
- Can you explain?
991
00:56:38,552 --> 00:56:43,056
- Well, I started using drugs
when I was about 13,
992
00:56:43,057 --> 00:56:45,601
drinking and drugging,
and, uh...
993
00:56:47,020 --> 00:56:49,856
Selling and manufacturing.
994
00:56:49,857 --> 00:56:52,358
Some stealing and burglarizing
going along with it
995
00:56:52,359 --> 00:56:53,985
to sup... support the habit
996
00:56:53,986 --> 00:56:57,990
and always end up
back in prison.
997
00:56:57,991 --> 00:57:02,077
- There's one significant moment
when Jason, your son,
998
00:57:02,078 --> 00:57:05,247
was found guilty
for capital murder...
999
00:57:05,248 --> 00:57:07,626
- Yes.
- And triple homicide.
1000
00:57:07,627 --> 00:57:10,587
During the sentencing phase,
you appeared in court.
1001
00:57:10,588 --> 00:57:14,341
Can you describe what you said
to the jury?
1002
00:57:17,638 --> 00:57:21,557
- Well...
1003
00:57:21,558 --> 00:57:24,728
I explained to 'em
what prison life was about,
1004
00:57:24,729 --> 00:57:27,397
and I explained...
I explained to 'em
1005
00:57:27,398 --> 00:57:30,192
that I didn't think killing him
1006
00:57:30,193 --> 00:57:35,531
was gonna bring back those
people or really, you know,
1007
00:57:35,532 --> 00:57:38,910
do anything to correct
what happened,
1008
00:57:38,911 --> 00:57:43,165
and I asked
the jury to, you know,
1009
00:57:43,166 --> 00:57:45,960
"Please, you know,
don't kill my son."
1010
00:57:45,961 --> 00:57:47,336
I asked 'em.
1011
00:57:47,337 --> 00:57:49,713
I said just,
"Please, don't kill my son."
1012
00:57:49,714 --> 00:57:52,717
He never had a chance.
1013
00:57:52,718 --> 00:57:54,302
He didn't have a father.
1014
00:57:54,303 --> 00:57:57,263
I told 'em that, you know,
he did... I was never there,
1015
00:57:57,264 --> 00:57:59,432
and his mother was a, you know,
single mother
1016
00:57:59,433 --> 00:58:01,310
with four children,
1017
00:58:01,311 --> 00:58:04,188
and... and she had handicaps.
1018
00:58:04,189 --> 00:58:06,691
She... she's on disability.
1019
00:58:06,692 --> 00:58:09,486
Most of that time,
she was living on disability,
1020
00:58:09,487 --> 00:58:11,905
and so they...
they really didn't...
1021
00:58:11,906 --> 00:58:14,324
they lived off food stamps,
1022
00:58:14,325 --> 00:58:17,619
and, you know, HUD housing
and that type of thing,
1023
00:58:17,620 --> 00:58:21,332
and... and he...
he really...
1024
00:58:21,333 --> 00:58:26,129
he really had a real poor life
growing up.
1025
00:58:27,966 --> 00:58:30,092
I just asked 'em
not to kill my son.
1026
00:58:30,093 --> 00:58:31,468
It wasn't his fault.
1027
00:58:31,469 --> 00:58:33,429
I... it... I wished I could...
1028
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:35,931
I wish that I could
take the time, his time.
1029
00:58:35,932 --> 00:58:39,769
I wish I could, 'cause I feel
like that it's my fault.
1030
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:42,147
I... I... really do.
1031
00:58:42,148 --> 00:58:44,482
I feel like it's...
1032
00:58:44,483 --> 00:58:46,610
I'm as much at fault as he is,
1033
00:58:46,611 --> 00:58:48,279
'cause if I'd have been there,
1034
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,072
it, quite possibly, maybe not,
1035
00:58:50,073 --> 00:58:52,074
but... but it might possibly
have been different.
1036
00:58:52,075 --> 00:58:54,327
He'd have had a better chance.
1037
00:58:54,328 --> 00:58:56,830
You know, he'd have
a whole lot better chance,
1038
00:58:56,831 --> 00:58:59,499
if I'd have been there
helping his mother raise him,
1039
00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:01,376
but I wasn't.
1040
00:59:01,377 --> 00:59:03,588
The jury got up to leave,
1041
00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:06,174
and the door was right here
to my right,
1042
00:59:06,175 --> 00:59:09,510
and as the door closed
behind them,
1043
00:59:09,511 --> 00:59:11,637
I heard two ladies break down.
1044
00:59:11,638 --> 00:59:13,682
I'm... I'm real emotional,
1045
00:59:13,683 --> 00:59:16,185
and I'm crying
through the whole thing,
1046
00:59:16,186 --> 00:59:19,354
but as they went through
that door, and the door closed,
1047
00:59:19,355 --> 00:59:23,193
I heard two ladies
break down crying.
1048
00:59:23,194 --> 00:59:27,864
They broke down,
and then the...
1049
00:59:27,865 --> 00:59:30,868
when it... it was all over
and his lawyer come told me,
1050
00:59:30,869 --> 00:59:33,370
he said...
I remember the... his words.
1051
00:59:33,371 --> 00:59:35,956
He said, "You got him."
1052
00:59:35,957 --> 00:59:37,333
- You saved a life.
1053
00:59:37,334 --> 00:59:38,751
- He said... he said,
"You got him."
1054
00:59:38,752 --> 00:59:40,545
I said,
"What do you mean?"
1055
00:59:40,546 --> 00:59:42,589
He said, "You got him."
1056
00:59:42,590 --> 00:59:44,466
And that's where I...
that's what saved...
1057
00:59:44,467 --> 00:59:45,842
there was two votes.
1058
00:59:45,843 --> 00:59:49,347
It was ten to two,
and there was two votes
1059
00:59:49,348 --> 00:59:52,892
that voted not to kill him,
1060
00:59:52,893 --> 00:59:57,397
and I think those were the
two ladies right there that...
1061
00:59:57,398 --> 01:00:01,527
they're the ones
that saved his life.
1062
01:00:01,528 --> 01:00:03,987
- But you can be proud
of this moment.
1063
01:00:03,988 --> 01:00:05,739
- Yeah.
1064
01:00:08,619 --> 01:00:10,829
I had some help too.
1065
01:00:10,830 --> 01:00:12,372
God helped me.
1066
01:00:12,373 --> 01:00:13,790
He did.
1067
01:00:13,791 --> 01:00:16,085
I asked God to help me,
and I think He did.
1068
01:00:19,714 --> 01:00:23,425
I didn't deserve
any help for him.
1069
01:00:23,426 --> 01:00:25,428
He may not deserve the help,
1070
01:00:25,429 --> 01:00:29,474
but we got it
from some place, so...
1071
01:00:35,149 --> 01:00:36,858
- The hardest part
was to look at him
1072
01:00:36,859 --> 01:00:38,234
and for him to look at me,
1073
01:00:38,235 --> 01:00:39,735
and I seen that he was sincere,
1074
01:00:39,736 --> 01:00:41,487
that he really was sorry for,
you know,
1075
01:00:41,488 --> 01:00:43,490
what he had done throughout
my whole childhood,
1076
01:00:43,491 --> 01:00:44,867
and he had been in prison.
1077
01:00:44,868 --> 01:00:46,451
I don't blame him for it,
1078
01:00:46,452 --> 01:00:48,287
but I seen right there
that he understood
1079
01:00:48,288 --> 01:00:50,789
that it did affect us,
and I cried that one day,
1080
01:00:50,790 --> 01:00:52,667
that was it, through the...
the whole trial.
1081
01:00:52,668 --> 01:00:54,252
Even after conviction,
1082
01:00:54,253 --> 01:00:57,964
the only thing that hurt me
was my... my dad testifying.
1083
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,636
- Whenever I went back
and testified,
1084
01:01:02,637 --> 01:01:04,763
his brother went back
and testified too.
1085
01:01:04,764 --> 01:01:06,807
His brother was in...
in prison, Chris,
1086
01:01:06,808 --> 01:01:10,979
and... and we,
me and Chris went...
1087
01:01:10,980 --> 01:01:13,648
came back to
the diagnostics together,
1088
01:01:13,649 --> 01:01:15,650
and then...
and I'm embarrassed,
1089
01:01:15,651 --> 01:01:19,989
but all of three of us,
we had Thanksgiving together,
1090
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:24,869
me and Chris and Jason over
at the diagnostics unit.
1091
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:28,415
You know, and they, uh...
1092
01:01:30,543 --> 01:01:31,919
They think that's kind of cool,
1093
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,213
but as a father, I thought
that was pretty embarrassing
1094
01:01:34,214 --> 01:01:36,299
to be sitting there
in prison with my sons.
1095
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:39,177
- All of them incarcerated.
- Yes, sir.
1096
01:01:39,178 --> 01:01:42,305
And then me and Jason went on
over to the next place together,
1097
01:01:42,306 --> 01:01:44,307
handcuffed together in the bus,
1098
01:01:44,308 --> 01:01:46,143
and that's something that
I never in my life
1099
01:01:46,144 --> 01:01:49,355
would ever dreamed... dreamed of
that would've happened,
1100
01:01:49,356 --> 01:01:53,525
that that same little baby
that was...
1101
01:01:53,526 --> 01:01:57,322
We had to hold him down to
take bone marrow tests out of,
1102
01:01:57,323 --> 01:01:59,324
the same little 6 pound baby.
1103
01:01:59,325 --> 01:02:03,496
- Describe the feeling to me
when you are handcuffed together
1104
01:02:03,497 --> 01:02:07,041
with your own son
in the same bus.
1105
01:02:07,042 --> 01:02:08,459
Can you describe that?
1106
01:02:08,460 --> 01:02:11,170
- No, not really.
It... it's, uh...
1107
01:02:11,171 --> 01:02:13,423
- Try to describe it for us.
1108
01:02:16,135 --> 01:02:18,929
Well, I don't know.
1109
01:02:18,930 --> 01:02:20,889
I just felt like
a total failure,
1110
01:02:20,890 --> 01:02:23,184
total failure as a father.
1111
01:02:23,185 --> 01:02:24,936
- And you could feel his hand,
can't you?
1112
01:02:24,937 --> 01:02:26,562
- Yes.
1113
01:02:26,563 --> 01:02:29,357
Yeah, we were handcuffed to
this hand and his right hand,
1114
01:02:29,358 --> 01:02:33,570
and we were sitting there,
and... and I was just...
1115
01:02:33,571 --> 01:02:35,197
it was just total failure.
1116
01:02:35,198 --> 01:02:37,157
That's what I felt like.
1117
01:02:37,158 --> 01:02:39,911
I felt like crap, you know,
1118
01:02:39,912 --> 01:02:41,579
and I used a different word
to the jury,
1119
01:02:41,580 --> 01:02:43,498
and... and... and that's...
1120
01:02:43,499 --> 01:02:45,417
and that's what I meant.
1121
01:02:45,418 --> 01:02:47,752
You know, he had trash for a...
for a father,
1122
01:02:47,753 --> 01:02:50,881
and... and then here I was
sitting with my baby son
1123
01:02:50,882 --> 01:02:55,052
on a prison bus,
and, I mean, I don't think it...
1124
01:02:55,053 --> 01:02:58,598
I don't think it gets much
lower than that, you know?
1125
01:02:58,599 --> 01:03:01,560
It just don't.
1126
01:03:01,561 --> 01:03:04,396
Knowing me or him,
neither one'll ever, you know,
1127
01:03:04,397 --> 01:03:08,192
get out again.
1128
01:03:08,193 --> 01:03:11,946
I just got a three year set
off again
1129
01:03:11,947 --> 01:03:14,282
about a week ago, so...
1130
01:03:14,283 --> 01:03:18,454
We'll never... me or him
will never get out again.
1131
01:03:18,455 --> 01:03:20,122
- And will he ever
get out again?
1132
01:03:20,123 --> 01:03:21,957
- I don't think so.
1133
01:03:21,958 --> 01:03:23,959
He comes up for parole
the first time in...
1134
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:27,297
in 1942 for the first time.
1135
01:03:27,298 --> 01:03:29,799
- 40 years
after his conviction.
1136
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,801
- Yes, sir, 1941.
I'm sorry.
1137
01:03:31,802 --> 01:03:33,804
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
1138
01:03:33,805 --> 01:03:37,224
- Yeah, 2041.
You're a century back.
1139
01:03:37,225 --> 01:03:38,809
- Yes.
- Behind.
1140
01:03:38,810 --> 01:03:41,771
- 19 yeah, 2041.
I'm sorry.
1141
01:03:41,772 --> 01:03:44,066
- Well, it doesn't matter.
It's time must be.
1142
01:03:44,067 --> 01:03:45,484
- A long time.
1143
01:03:45,485 --> 01:03:48,278
- Time is probably different
for you in here.
1144
01:03:48,279 --> 01:03:50,405
- Yes, sir.
1145
01:04:46,177 --> 01:04:47,553
- This is actually the vehicle
1146
01:04:47,554 --> 01:04:50,013
that was in Sandra Stotler's
garage.
1147
01:04:50,014 --> 01:04:51,390
This was the vehicle
1148
01:04:51,391 --> 01:04:56,729
that Michael Perry and
Jason Burkett was... was after.
1149
01:04:56,730 --> 01:04:58,815
Three people died for this car,
1150
01:04:58,816 --> 01:05:00,525
a car that was
in their possession
1151
01:05:00,526 --> 01:05:04,029
for less than
72 hours, I believe.
1152
01:05:06,074 --> 01:05:07,575
Within a couple of years,
1153
01:05:07,576 --> 01:05:09,452
I mean, this vehicle
was just trashed,
1154
01:05:09,453 --> 01:05:10,828
the inside of it,
1155
01:05:10,829 --> 01:05:12,914
because there was actually
a tree that had rooted
1156
01:05:12,915 --> 01:05:14,624
and had come up through
the center of it,
1157
01:05:14,625 --> 01:05:16,001
and it tore the floorboard up,
1158
01:05:16,002 --> 01:05:20,589
and whenever we actually had
to move it over to this lot,
1159
01:05:20,590 --> 01:05:22,925
it was a little bit difficult
because of that.
1160
01:05:22,926 --> 01:05:24,677
- A tree grew inside of it.
1161
01:05:24,678 --> 01:05:27,221
- A tree grew up
from the bottom up into...
1162
01:05:27,222 --> 01:05:28,556
up into the car.
1163
01:05:33,730 --> 01:05:36,565
- Why did they die?
1164
01:05:36,566 --> 01:05:39,944
- I ask myself that question
every day.
1165
01:05:39,945 --> 01:05:44,240
I mean, for a vehicle?
1166
01:05:44,241 --> 01:05:47,243
You know, I... I don't know.
1167
01:05:47,244 --> 01:05:48,621
I don't know.
1168
01:05:48,622 --> 01:05:50,831
People die every day over
giving people a dirty look
1169
01:05:50,832 --> 01:05:53,250
or, you know, $2.
1170
01:05:53,251 --> 01:05:55,961
People rob each other,
and I don't know.
1171
01:05:55,962 --> 01:05:57,422
I don't know why they died,
1172
01:05:57,423 --> 01:06:00,217
the greed of these two boys.
1173
01:06:00,218 --> 01:06:01,635
I don't know.
1174
01:06:01,636 --> 01:06:03,303
I don't...
I don't have an answer.
1175
01:06:03,304 --> 01:06:07,391
- Can you speak about
the family of victims?
1176
01:06:08,852 --> 01:06:12,396
Nobody seems
to address that side.
1177
01:06:13,982 --> 01:06:15,400
- I... I don't...
1178
01:06:15,401 --> 01:06:17,569
- How do you live
with all this?
1179
01:06:17,570 --> 01:06:19,655
I didn't for a while.
1180
01:06:19,656 --> 01:06:21,073
I'm starting to live again,
1181
01:06:21,074 --> 01:06:26,120
but basically I just shut down.
1182
01:06:26,121 --> 01:06:31,543
Montgomery County has
a victims assistance program,
1183
01:06:31,544 --> 01:06:35,005
but when you... when your whole
family's ripped from you,
1184
01:06:35,006 --> 01:06:37,758
you... you know, you're kind of
like, what's the point?
1185
01:06:37,759 --> 01:06:39,343
What's the point
of living any more?
1186
01:06:39,344 --> 01:06:41,053
I don't have a family
to share it with.
1187
01:06:41,054 --> 01:06:42,806
And I know I have to live
for my children,
1188
01:06:42,807 --> 01:06:44,182
to raise my children.
1189
01:06:44,183 --> 01:06:46,017
I don't want them to have
a miserable life
1190
01:06:46,018 --> 01:06:49,729
or have a depressed mother
all the time.
1191
01:06:49,730 --> 01:06:53,901
But for about four years,
I didn't go anywhere.
1192
01:06:53,902 --> 01:06:56,988
I stayed in the house,
1193
01:06:56,989 --> 01:06:58,406
took the phone out of the home.
1194
01:06:58,407 --> 01:06:59,782
I don't like to talk to people.
1195
01:06:59,783 --> 01:07:02,494
I figure, if I don't
get close to anybody,
1196
01:07:02,495 --> 01:07:04,288
I don't... you know,
I won't get hurt again.
1197
01:07:04,289 --> 01:07:05,956
I don't know.
1198
01:07:05,957 --> 01:07:08,709
I just...
I just shut down, really.
1199
01:07:08,710 --> 01:07:11,212
My grandmother shut down.
1200
01:07:11,213 --> 01:07:16,759
Our... our lives are...
are empty, very empty.
1201
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,387
Very empty.
1202
01:07:23,476 --> 01:07:24,893
That's Adam.
1203
01:07:24,894 --> 01:07:27,397
That was his six...
he was 16 there.
1204
01:07:27,398 --> 01:07:29,858
That was his last
school picture.
1205
01:07:43,248 --> 01:07:46,335
My brother, my brother
was my best friend.
1206
01:07:46,336 --> 01:07:50,922
He was...
he was only 16.
1207
01:07:50,923 --> 01:07:53,425
It is true that he is not
my real brother.
1208
01:07:53,426 --> 01:07:56,304
My sister was...
got pregnant when she was 16,
1209
01:07:56,305 --> 01:07:58,514
and my parents adopted him,
1210
01:07:58,515 --> 01:08:01,559
and they were actually
out of town the day he was born,
1211
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,438
so I was the first one
to hold him,
1212
01:08:04,439 --> 01:08:07,524
and I just... I had this feeling
his whole life
1213
01:08:07,525 --> 01:08:09,234
that something
was gonna happen to him,
1214
01:08:09,235 --> 01:08:11,487
and I remember calling my mother
and saying, you know,
1215
01:08:11,488 --> 01:08:12,989
"What's Adam doing?
Where's Adam?"
1216
01:08:12,990 --> 01:08:15,075
You need to make sure...
y'all just moved up to ohio.
1217
01:08:15,076 --> 01:08:16,910
"You need to make sure
you're watching him."
1218
01:08:16,911 --> 01:08:18,912
And my mom was like,
"I've raised five children.
1219
01:08:18,913 --> 01:08:20,288
I can take care of him."
1220
01:08:20,289 --> 01:08:22,708
And when he hit 16,
I knew he was... he was good.
1221
01:08:22,709 --> 01:08:24,085
He was safe.
He was a man.
1222
01:08:24,086 --> 01:08:26,003
He'd be able to
take care of himself now.
1223
01:08:27,089 --> 01:08:28,547
He was such a great kid.
1224
01:08:28,548 --> 01:08:31,593
He was in love for
the first time in his life.
1225
01:08:40,312 --> 01:08:47,485
And, um, one... one thing
that sticks out for me,
1226
01:08:47,486 --> 01:08:50,155
my mom always protected me.
1227
01:08:50,156 --> 01:08:53,659
One thing that I remember,
1228
01:08:53,660 --> 01:08:56,161
I was supposed to get married.
1229
01:08:56,162 --> 01:08:59,332
Well, I did get married
September 16, 1995,
1230
01:08:59,333 --> 01:09:02,335
but my dad, Mel,
he was a preacher,
1231
01:09:02,336 --> 01:09:05,130
and he was supposed
to marry me and Kenneth.
1232
01:09:05,131 --> 01:09:07,299
He died six months
before the wedding.
1233
01:09:07,300 --> 01:09:12,221
He was hit by a train,
him and my older brother
1234
01:09:12,222 --> 01:09:13,889
and the family dog.
1235
01:09:13,890 --> 01:09:18,645
And so we got... I refused
to get married in a church,
1236
01:09:18,646 --> 01:09:20,981
so we got married on the boat
in Lake Conroe.
1237
01:09:20,982 --> 01:09:22,899
Right as I was
walking out the...
1238
01:09:22,900 --> 01:09:25,319
walking out the door
to go down the aisle,
1239
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:29,657
my mother pinned my dad's
wedding ring inside my dress
1240
01:09:29,658 --> 01:09:31,033
right over my heart,
1241
01:09:31,034 --> 01:09:33,954
and she said, "I didn't want
your dad to miss this."
1242
01:09:33,955 --> 01:09:35,956
And, you know, that just...
1243
01:09:38,001 --> 01:09:39,376
- You loved her.
1244
01:09:39,377 --> 01:09:42,380
- Yes, and I know she was
in so much pain that day,
1245
01:09:42,381 --> 01:09:46,634
but she hid it
because I was so happy.
1246
01:09:46,635 --> 01:09:49,554
She hid her pain for me,
1247
01:09:49,555 --> 01:09:52,933
and, you know, she... she just
made it through the day.
1248
01:09:54,895 --> 01:09:57,897
I just miss 'em a lot.
1249
01:09:57,898 --> 01:10:02,277
Our family's just so incomplete,
so incomplete.
1250
01:10:05,907 --> 01:10:08,241
You know, sometimes my kids
will ask me things,
1251
01:10:08,242 --> 01:10:09,702
and I'll go, "I don't know."
1252
01:10:09,703 --> 01:10:11,204
I wonder what my mo...".
1253
01:10:11,205 --> 01:10:13,748
You know, there's things
at all times of day and night
1254
01:10:13,749 --> 01:10:15,666
I want to call and ask her.
1255
01:10:15,667 --> 01:10:20,047
It took me forever to realize
she was really gone
1256
01:10:20,048 --> 01:10:22,591
'cause I would want to pick up
the phone and call her.
1257
01:10:22,592 --> 01:10:26,261
- Is this why you
got rid of the phone?
1258
01:10:26,262 --> 01:10:33,603
- Yes, I... I did not want
another phone call
1259
01:10:33,604 --> 01:10:37,441
telling me somebody else
in my family had died.
1260
01:10:38,860 --> 01:10:40,653
I couldn't handle
those phone calls any more.
1261
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:44,991
I couldn't handle 'em any more,
1262
01:10:44,992 --> 01:10:48,745
so I just cut myself off
from the world.
1263
01:10:50,873 --> 01:10:53,083
I can't... I can't
have a phone on.
1264
01:10:53,084 --> 01:10:55,044
I just don't like to hear
the phone ring any more
1265
01:10:55,045 --> 01:10:57,755
'cause all it ever brought me
was bad news.
1266
01:10:57,756 --> 01:10:59,257
- The worst.
- The worst.
1267
01:10:59,258 --> 01:11:01,801
- Not just bad, yeah.
1268
01:11:01,802 --> 01:11:03,804
You had to... to face it.
1269
01:11:03,805 --> 01:11:06,056
- Yeah.
1270
01:11:06,057 --> 01:11:07,808
Well, you know,
it's just, I mean,
1271
01:11:07,809 --> 01:11:13,314
not only did I lose my mother
and my father and my brother
1272
01:11:13,315 --> 01:11:15,149
to tragic circumstances.
1273
01:11:15,150 --> 01:11:16,818
I mean, my grandfather
had a stroke.
1274
01:11:16,819 --> 01:11:18,194
My uncle hung himself.
1275
01:11:18,195 --> 01:11:20,990
My other uncle
had a heroin overdose.
1276
01:11:20,991 --> 01:11:24,368
My stepbrother shot himself
'cause he had pancreatic cancer.
1277
01:11:24,369 --> 01:11:26,662
My real father died
in his sleep.
1278
01:11:26,663 --> 01:11:29,123
All this was in six years,
a six year period.
1279
01:11:29,124 --> 01:11:32,252
I lost everyone in my family,
everybody.
1280
01:12:18,179 --> 01:12:20,597
- Mr. Burkett,
if you close the eyes
1281
01:12:20,598 --> 01:12:23,558
and you think about
a different life
1282
01:12:23,559 --> 01:12:27,021
and it could start all over,
1283
01:12:27,022 --> 01:12:30,483
how would you raise
the children?
1284
01:12:30,484 --> 01:12:32,401
- Well...
1285
01:12:35,281 --> 01:12:38,825
It's hard to answer something
that you've never done,
1286
01:12:38,826 --> 01:12:40,911
and, you know, embarrassing...
1287
01:12:40,912 --> 01:12:42,789
it's embarrassing to say that,
1288
01:12:42,790 --> 01:12:45,041
but... but I know when...
I would like...
1289
01:12:45,042 --> 01:12:50,213
I would like to them have...
1290
01:12:50,214 --> 01:12:52,758
I had a scholarship
to the University of Texas
1291
01:12:52,759 --> 01:12:55,719
in 1973, in football,
1292
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,554
and I quit school
in my senior year,
1293
01:12:57,555 --> 01:13:01,393
quit football and quit school
and lost that,
1294
01:13:01,394 --> 01:13:04,479
and I wish I could go back
to right there.
1295
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:06,147
- Yes, go back to right there.
1296
01:13:06,148 --> 01:13:07,774
Now you have the children.
1297
01:13:07,775 --> 01:13:11,862
- Then I have the children,
and... and I would had...
1298
01:13:11,863 --> 01:13:14,907
I would have done
everything in my power
1299
01:13:14,908 --> 01:13:19,287
to... to help them finish school
like I didn't.
1300
01:13:19,288 --> 01:13:21,581
You always tell them,
"Don't be like me."
1301
01:13:21,582 --> 01:13:23,125
Well, I wished...
1302
01:13:23,126 --> 01:13:25,627
I wished I would've been
something they could've been,
1303
01:13:25,628 --> 01:13:27,839
and I wish they could've
finished school.
1304
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,133
I wish we could've played
baseball like I did
1305
01:13:30,134 --> 01:13:32,802
when I was little,
in Little League.
1306
01:13:32,803 --> 01:13:34,637
I wish that we could've
played baseball.
1307
01:13:34,638 --> 01:13:37,266
Two of them did
for, like, one time.
1308
01:13:37,267 --> 01:13:39,685
I wish we could've
played baseball,
1309
01:13:39,686 --> 01:13:42,187
and I wished I could've went
to their football games.
1310
01:13:44,232 --> 01:13:47,736
And I raised a steer in...
in school for FFA.
1311
01:13:47,737 --> 01:13:49,279
I wish they could've did that.
1312
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:50,655
We lived in the country.
1313
01:13:50,656 --> 01:13:53,616
That's what I wish
we could go back, all of us,
1314
01:13:53,617 --> 01:13:57,246
and... and... and go to school,
school events.
1315
01:13:57,247 --> 01:13:58,622
I got to watch one of my sons
1316
01:13:58,623 --> 01:14:00,708
play the horn
one time in school,
1317
01:14:00,709 --> 01:14:03,295
and... and that's the stuff
that I remember.
1318
01:14:03,296 --> 01:14:04,963
That's the good stuff,
1319
01:14:04,964 --> 01:14:07,382
and this all
wouldn't have happened.
1320
01:14:39,544 --> 01:14:41,045
- I want to say this
on the record.
1321
01:14:41,046 --> 01:14:43,047
I'm not saying that my husband
was a Boy Scout.
1322
01:14:43,048 --> 01:14:45,674
I'm not saying that
Jason Burkett did absolutely...
1323
01:14:45,675 --> 01:14:47,886
had no knowledge
and was, like, selling cookies
1324
01:14:47,887 --> 01:14:51,890
or raising money for camp
when that happened.
1325
01:14:51,891 --> 01:14:58,397
I'm saying that Jason did not
kill one, two, or three people.
1326
01:14:58,398 --> 01:15:02,902
Sandra, Jeremy, and Adam
were not killed by Jason.
1327
01:15:02,903 --> 01:15:07,282
- And you asked your husband...
1328
01:15:07,283 --> 01:15:09,785
you asked Jason point blank,
1329
01:15:09,786 --> 01:15:11,620
"Can you tell me what...
what happened?"
1330
01:15:11,621 --> 01:15:14,248
because you wanted
to make sure.
1331
01:15:14,249 --> 01:15:16,251
What did you ask him?
1332
01:15:16,252 --> 01:15:18,253
- I've asked Jason
multiple times
1333
01:15:18,254 --> 01:15:20,463
to tell me everything
that I need to know.
1334
01:15:20,464 --> 01:15:21,840
I said, "Jason..."
1335
01:15:21,841 --> 01:15:23,550
Jason doesn't have
a whole lot of money,
1336
01:15:23,551 --> 01:15:25,094
so we do most of his stuff
pro se,
1337
01:15:25,095 --> 01:15:27,930
which is where we file it
ourselves,
1338
01:15:27,931 --> 01:15:32,059
and me and his father have
pretty much done his appeal,
1339
01:15:32,060 --> 01:15:34,104
and I always ask him,
1340
01:15:34,105 --> 01:15:36,523
"I need to know
everything you can tell me
1341
01:15:36,524 --> 01:15:38,191
to help you get home,"
1342
01:15:38,192 --> 01:15:40,443
and that's basically
how we start our conversations,
1343
01:15:40,444 --> 01:15:45,032
and Jason will recall things,
and, you know, more and more,
1344
01:15:45,033 --> 01:15:47,118
it's, like, been a snowball
that I've picked up
1345
01:15:47,119 --> 01:15:48,744
exactly what I think happened.
1346
01:15:48,745 --> 01:15:50,121
- Yeah.
1347
01:15:50,122 --> 01:15:52,166
And you are told
he was innocent.
1348
01:15:52,167 --> 01:15:53,667
- Yes.
1349
01:15:53,668 --> 01:15:55,419
- And you do believe him.
1350
01:15:55,420 --> 01:15:57,838
- I do believe him.
1351
01:15:57,839 --> 01:16:01,801
I... like I said, I believe
that Jason had involvement.
1352
01:16:01,802 --> 01:16:04,512
I don't believe
he killed three people.
1353
01:16:05,890 --> 01:16:07,473
I wrote Jason
for maybe two years
1354
01:16:07,474 --> 01:16:09,101
before I went to meet him,
1355
01:16:09,102 --> 01:16:11,812
because really I could do most
of the stuff through the mail,
1356
01:16:11,813 --> 01:16:13,814
and one day
I was talking to his mother,
1357
01:16:13,815 --> 01:16:16,442
and she said something
to the effect of,
1358
01:16:16,443 --> 01:16:18,570
"You'll never guess what Jason
said to me today,"
1359
01:16:18,571 --> 01:16:19,988
and I said, "What?"
1360
01:16:19,989 --> 01:16:24,117
And she said, "He told me
that he was in love with you."
1361
01:16:24,118 --> 01:16:27,788
And I said, "That's crazy."
1362
01:16:27,789 --> 01:16:30,583
And I remember, to give you,
like, the pre-story,
1363
01:16:30,584 --> 01:16:32,418
I was with my best friend,
and when I hung up,
1364
01:16:32,419 --> 01:16:34,253
I said to my best friend...
her name's Kat...
1365
01:16:34,254 --> 01:16:38,091
I was like, "Kat, Jason
Burkett's in love with me."
1366
01:16:38,092 --> 01:16:39,843
She goes,
"That's probably pretty good
1367
01:16:39,844 --> 01:16:41,511
'cause you're
in love with him too."
1368
01:16:41,512 --> 01:16:43,472
And I said,
"What are you talking about?
1369
01:16:43,473 --> 01:16:44,933
"Don't be an idiot," you know?
1370
01:16:44,934 --> 01:16:47,352
And she said,
"Dude, when is the last time
1371
01:16:47,353 --> 01:16:48,811
"you've been on a date?
1372
01:16:48,812 --> 01:16:51,189
"When was the last time you
haven't spent a Saturday night
1373
01:16:51,190 --> 01:16:53,524
with Jason Burkett's
court paperwork?"
1374
01:16:53,525 --> 01:16:55,653
I was like,
"Hey, that's not nice."
1375
01:16:55,654 --> 01:16:57,071
But I ended up driving...
1376
01:16:57,072 --> 01:16:58,489
I lived in Nebraska
at the time.
1377
01:16:58,490 --> 01:17:01,450
I ended up driving from omaha
to Abilene
1378
01:17:01,451 --> 01:17:04,204
because I wanted him
to tell me himself,
1379
01:17:04,205 --> 01:17:05,747
and he was at
the Robertson Unit.
1380
01:17:05,748 --> 01:17:07,540
- You were two days
and two nights driving?
1381
01:17:07,541 --> 01:17:09,000
- Yes.
1382
01:17:09,001 --> 01:17:12,505
I drove it...
it seemed, like, endless too.
1383
01:17:12,506 --> 01:17:13,881
I drove, and I got there,
1384
01:17:13,882 --> 01:17:15,299
and I remember,
I just asked him.
1385
01:17:15,300 --> 01:17:16,884
Like, that was the first thing
I said.
1386
01:17:16,885 --> 01:17:19,220
I was like, "Hi, we've never
seen each other in our lives",
1387
01:17:19,221 --> 01:17:20,596
"but hi.
1388
01:17:20,597 --> 01:17:22,474
Your mom told me
that you're in love with me."
1389
01:17:22,475 --> 01:17:23,850
But I didn't say it.
1390
01:17:23,851 --> 01:17:25,227
I wanted to be coy, so I said,
1391
01:17:25,228 --> 01:17:27,396
"Your mom told me you told her
something in a visit."
1392
01:17:27,397 --> 01:17:29,022
I said, "What...
what did you tell her?"
1393
01:17:29,023 --> 01:17:30,900
And he said,
"I need stamps?"
1394
01:17:30,901 --> 01:17:32,735
And I was like,
"I wouldn't be in Abilene
1395
01:17:32,736 --> 01:17:34,404
"because you need
stamps, right?
1396
01:17:34,405 --> 01:17:36,239
What are you...
don't play games with me."
1397
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:38,074
And he goes,
"oh, that part where I said
1398
01:17:38,075 --> 01:17:40,077
I was in love with you?"
1399
01:17:40,078 --> 01:17:42,246
And then I dropped the phone
because I was nervous,
1400
01:17:42,247 --> 01:17:43,622
and I didn't know what to say,
1401
01:17:43,623 --> 01:17:45,541
and I kind of fumbled
through that whole visit
1402
01:17:45,542 --> 01:17:47,711
because I didn't immediately go,
"I love you too."
1403
01:17:47,712 --> 01:17:49,713
It wasn't, you know,
like a movie.
1404
01:17:49,714 --> 01:17:51,131
I was very nervous.
1405
01:17:51,132 --> 01:17:54,467
I'm not that girl that
falls in love with an inmate.
1406
01:17:54,468 --> 01:17:57,596
And I was like, okay,
I'm just gonna be cool with it,
1407
01:17:57,597 --> 01:18:01,267
and then when I left,
the day I met Jason,
1408
01:18:01,268 --> 01:18:02,810
there was a rainbow,
and I'm not...
1409
01:18:02,811 --> 01:18:04,312
This is true.
It's in our letters.
1410
01:18:04,313 --> 01:18:06,189
There was a rainbow
that went from one gate...
1411
01:18:06,190 --> 01:18:09,609
side of the gate
to the other side of the gate,
1412
01:18:09,610 --> 01:18:13,071
and I thought that was the most
miraculous sign that this is...
1413
01:18:13,072 --> 01:18:14,949
this is the boy
that I'm supposed to be with
1414
01:18:14,950 --> 01:18:16,534
and this is...
he is innocent,
1415
01:18:16,535 --> 01:18:20,455
because how many times
do you see a whole rainbow?
1416
01:18:20,456 --> 01:18:24,460
And we saw a whole rainbow,
and my friend was with me.
1417
01:18:24,461 --> 01:18:26,712
He saw the rainbow too.
I have a witness.
1418
01:18:26,713 --> 01:18:28,088
And when Jason...
1419
01:18:28,089 --> 01:18:30,507
when I got home,
I had a letter waiting for me,
1420
01:18:30,508 --> 01:18:32,593
and he said,
"Did you see the rainbow?"
1421
01:18:32,594 --> 01:18:35,305
- At the gates of the prison.
1422
01:18:35,306 --> 01:18:37,474
- It went from one side,
my side on the outside,
1423
01:18:37,475 --> 01:18:39,726
to the inside to him.
1424
01:18:56,287 --> 01:18:58,455
- I believe in me,
you know, I know what...
1425
01:18:58,456 --> 01:19:00,708
I know what happened
back in 2001.
1426
01:19:00,709 --> 01:19:02,210
I know that I wasn't
a part of it,
1427
01:19:02,211 --> 01:19:04,587
and I believe strongly in...
in my faith,
1428
01:19:04,588 --> 01:19:06,130
in my attorneys,
and in the outcome,
1429
01:19:06,131 --> 01:19:08,466
but at the same time, I don't
even recognize these walls.
1430
01:19:08,467 --> 01:19:09,843
I don't pay attention to this,
1431
01:19:09,844 --> 01:19:11,804
because if you do,
you're gonna lose your mind.
1432
01:19:11,805 --> 01:19:14,264
You're gonna... you're gonna go...
you're gonna lose your mind.
1433
01:19:14,265 --> 01:19:16,683
Recently, another guy just
killed himself the other day,
1434
01:19:16,684 --> 01:19:19,187
and he left a note saying that,
1435
01:19:19,188 --> 01:19:21,147
"Y'all have to live around
all this craziness,
1436
01:19:21,148 --> 01:19:22,690
and I'm gone,"
1437
01:19:22,691 --> 01:19:24,526
and that's because
he was focusing on it,
1438
01:19:24,527 --> 01:19:25,902
but I don't.
1439
01:19:25,903 --> 01:19:27,279
I don't focus on it.
1440
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,157
You know, I just...
I just distract myself.
1441
01:19:30,158 --> 01:19:31,575
I stay busy.
I work on my case.
1442
01:19:31,576 --> 01:19:33,285
I have a great family,
1443
01:19:33,286 --> 01:19:35,162
a lot of supporters
that help me,
1444
01:19:35,163 --> 01:19:37,082
so I have enough distractions.
1445
01:19:37,083 --> 01:19:38,792
If I didn't have
enough distractions,
1446
01:19:38,793 --> 01:19:41,586
I might be in
a different position.
1447
01:19:41,587 --> 01:19:45,425
- How does time occur to you now
in your situation?
1448
01:19:45,426 --> 01:19:48,219
- Wow, that's a...
that's a good...
1449
01:19:48,220 --> 01:19:50,346
it... it really varies,
but, you know,
1450
01:19:50,347 --> 01:19:51,848
because, I'll...
like, I'll forget.
1451
01:19:51,849 --> 01:19:53,224
I'll literally forget,
1452
01:19:53,225 --> 01:19:54,643
and then I'll look at
my calendar
1453
01:19:54,644 --> 01:19:56,270
or I'll hear someone
say something,
1454
01:19:56,271 --> 01:19:57,646
and I'm like, "Man."
1455
01:19:57,647 --> 01:19:59,731
And I'll sit back,
and I'll just stare at the wall,
1456
01:19:59,732 --> 01:20:01,316
and I'll be like,
"Man, eight days,
1457
01:20:01,317 --> 01:20:04,446
seven days, six days,"
or whatever, and it's like...
1458
01:20:04,447 --> 01:20:06,614
it's just... I must not be
comprehending the fact
1459
01:20:06,615 --> 01:20:08,408
that it's that close,
because, you know,
1460
01:20:08,409 --> 01:20:10,243
it's hard for me to say,
you know what...
1461
01:20:10,244 --> 01:20:12,413
like, I talk to people,
"You know, in eight days,
1462
01:20:12,414 --> 01:20:14,081
these people
want to murder me,"
1463
01:20:14,082 --> 01:20:16,750
and it's just something that,
it's hard for me to...
1464
01:20:16,751 --> 01:20:18,169
hard for me to believe
1465
01:20:18,170 --> 01:20:20,922
that the state of Texas wants
to murder me in eight days.
1466
01:20:23,593 --> 01:20:25,343
- And worst case scenario,
1467
01:20:25,344 --> 01:20:29,306
you know exactly what is
going to happen on July 1st?
1468
01:20:29,307 --> 01:20:31,851
- Yeah, the execution.
Mm-hmm.
1469
01:20:31,852 --> 01:20:33,978
- You will be transported
to Huntsville?
1470
01:20:33,979 --> 01:20:36,564
- Right, the Walls Unit.
- That's a death house?
1471
01:20:36,565 --> 01:20:37,940
- Yes, sir.
1472
01:20:37,941 --> 01:20:41,445
- And you will be checked
by a medical examiner?
1473
01:20:41,446 --> 01:20:44,406
- I don't... no, no medical people
can be involved.
1474
01:20:44,407 --> 01:20:45,991
- I think they...
they have to check you
1475
01:20:45,992 --> 01:20:47,827
that you are fit
to be executed.
1476
01:20:47,828 --> 01:20:50,330
- I've never heard that,
but it might be.
1477
01:20:50,331 --> 01:20:52,040
- I think it's
one of these absurdities.
1478
01:20:52,041 --> 01:20:53,625
If you are unconscious,
for example,
1479
01:20:53,626 --> 01:20:55,001
you cannot be executed.
1480
01:20:55,002 --> 01:20:56,377
- Oh, yeah?
1481
01:20:56,378 --> 01:20:58,088
- Or if you are stark mad
or something...
1482
01:20:58,089 --> 01:20:59,882
- Yeah, yeah.
- They would not execute you.
1483
01:20:59,883 --> 01:21:01,258
- Yeah, that is true.
1484
01:21:01,259 --> 01:21:03,344
- Or if you are bleeding
from a gunshot wound,
1485
01:21:03,345 --> 01:21:07,349
they would not put you
onto the gurney.
1486
01:21:07,350 --> 01:21:09,351
- Right.
1487
01:21:09,352 --> 01:21:11,353
They got to treat me first
and then kill me, huh?
1488
01:21:11,354 --> 01:21:13,855
- Probably, yes.
1489
01:21:13,856 --> 01:21:17,360
That's... that's kind of crazy
to think about, right?
1490
01:21:21,448 --> 01:21:23,449
Yeah, I just... I just can't
allow myself to think.
1491
01:21:23,450 --> 01:21:25,494
I can't even picture myself
laying on a gurney,
1492
01:21:25,495 --> 01:21:28,914
but if it happens,
I'll have to deal with it, huh?
1493
01:21:28,915 --> 01:21:30,666
You know, I'll have to
deal with it,
1494
01:21:30,667 --> 01:21:33,878
and I'll be able to watch over
my mom from heaven
1495
01:21:33,879 --> 01:21:36,005
with a clear conscience
and be at peace.
1496
01:21:36,006 --> 01:21:37,840
You know, like I said,
for a long time,
1497
01:21:37,841 --> 01:21:39,259
my life has been unhappy,
1498
01:21:39,260 --> 01:21:43,013
so finally I can find me
some peace, huh?
1499
01:21:43,223 --> 01:21:44,765
- And you are
at peace with yourself.
1500
01:21:44,766 --> 01:21:46,141
- Now.
1501
01:21:46,142 --> 01:21:47,560
- Mm-hmm.
Took a long time.
1502
01:21:47,561 --> 01:21:49,395
- Yes, absolutely did.
1503
01:21:49,396 --> 01:21:52,107
Took a long time
to realize what a man was.
1504
01:21:52,108 --> 01:21:53,775
I was out there
acting like a child.
1505
01:21:53,776 --> 01:21:56,069
I acted like a child
when I got in here at first,
1506
01:21:56,070 --> 01:22:00,408
but I'm confident in...
in who I am now.
1507
01:22:04,204 --> 01:22:07,331
- Michael Perry,
I wish you all the best.
1508
01:22:07,332 --> 01:22:09,793
- Yes, thank you.
1509
01:22:09,794 --> 01:22:11,545
I don't know
what's gonna happen, huh?
1510
01:22:11,546 --> 01:22:14,256
We're gonna see.
We're gonna find out.
1511
01:22:14,257 --> 01:22:16,091
I'll find out on Monday.
1512
01:22:37,366 --> 01:22:39,784
- They knew
what I was telling them
1513
01:22:39,785 --> 01:22:41,786
was gonna be the truth.
1514
01:22:41,787 --> 01:22:45,499
I mean, I'm not gonna
tell you anything that...
1515
01:22:45,500 --> 01:22:48,502
I'm gonna tell you everything
that's gonna happen back here.
1516
01:22:48,503 --> 01:22:51,380
At 4:00, a guy's
gonna come in here,
1517
01:22:51,381 --> 01:22:54,134
and they're gonna
fingerprint you.
1518
01:22:54,135 --> 01:22:56,261
Shortly after that,
1519
01:22:56,262 --> 01:22:59,264
we're gonna allow you
to take a shower,
1520
01:22:59,265 --> 01:23:01,933
and then we're gonna put you
in free world clothes,
1521
01:23:01,934 --> 01:23:04,437
let you... let you dress
in free world clothes.
1522
01:23:04,438 --> 01:23:07,982
Free world clothes would be
clothes you and I would wear.
1523
01:23:07,983 --> 01:23:13,155
5:00, 6:00, whatever your... your
request for the last meal,
1524
01:23:13,156 --> 01:23:14,865
they'll bring it in,
1525
01:23:14,866 --> 01:23:18,827
and you'll sit there
and eat your last meal.
1526
01:23:18,828 --> 01:23:22,624
During that time, if you need
anything else, just ask.
1527
01:23:22,625 --> 01:23:26,461
You know, you need
some more juice, punch,
1528
01:23:26,462 --> 01:23:30,299
or whatever else
we got back here, just ask.
1529
01:23:30,300 --> 01:23:32,843
You know, and they...
you know,
1530
01:23:32,844 --> 01:23:35,429
sometimes we get
strange requests.
1531
01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:38,182
You know, within reason,
I'm gonna get it for you.
1532
01:23:38,183 --> 01:23:40,185
- Give me one
of those requests.
1533
01:23:40,186 --> 01:23:42,354
- Oh, one was,
1534
01:23:42,355 --> 01:23:44,523
"Man, I'd sure like to
smoke a doobie right now."
1535
01:23:44,524 --> 01:23:48,653
Well, that's not gonna happen,
you know.
1536
01:23:49,822 --> 01:23:51,781
The guy with the key,
he opens the door,
1537
01:23:51,782 --> 01:23:53,157
swings the door open.
1538
01:23:53,158 --> 01:23:55,284
There's another
correctional officer behind him
1539
01:23:55,285 --> 01:23:57,413
and another one behind me.
1540
01:23:57,414 --> 01:24:00,541
So soon as he does,
he follows me in,
1541
01:24:00,542 --> 01:24:02,334
and then the other
correctional officers
1542
01:24:02,335 --> 01:24:03,877
follow right in behind him.
1543
01:24:03,878 --> 01:24:06,381
So there'll be two in front of...
in front of the inmate,
1544
01:24:06,382 --> 01:24:08,550
and then the other three
right behind him.
1545
01:24:08,551 --> 01:24:10,260
I tell him jump up
on the gurney,
1546
01:24:10,261 --> 01:24:11,678
which then I automatic...
1547
01:24:11,679 --> 01:24:14,890
- It's only a few steps
from the cell.
1548
01:24:14,891 --> 01:24:20,646
- I would say no more than
ten steps, if that much.
1549
01:24:23,191 --> 01:24:25,068
I would immediately
go around to the gurney
1550
01:24:25,069 --> 01:24:28,071
'cause I always took care
of the left leg.
1551
01:24:28,072 --> 01:24:31,283
So soon as he laid down,
I took care of the left leg.
1552
01:24:31,284 --> 01:24:33,703
The other person
who was in front with me
1553
01:24:33,704 --> 01:24:35,329
would take care of the right.
1554
01:24:35,330 --> 01:24:38,082
The... the three
that fell in behind,
1555
01:24:38,083 --> 01:24:41,127
one would take care
of the... the right arm.
1556
01:24:41,128 --> 01:24:43,964
The other one would take care
of the left arm,
1557
01:24:43,965 --> 01:24:47,926
and the other one would be there
in case the inmate,
1558
01:24:47,927 --> 01:24:49,928
once he lays down,
1559
01:24:49,929 --> 01:24:52,557
if he had a response
to try to get back up,
1560
01:24:52,558 --> 01:24:56,144
his job was to hold...
to hold his shoulders down.
1561
01:24:56,145 --> 01:24:57,562
You know, you're not...
1562
01:24:57,563 --> 01:24:59,815
once you're up there,
you're up there, you know.
1563
01:25:01,318 --> 01:25:02,693
Within that time,
1564
01:25:02,694 --> 01:25:04,779
us four people
would have him done.
1565
01:25:04,780 --> 01:25:06,697
Probably within about
15 seconds,
1566
01:25:06,698 --> 01:25:09,659
he'd be strapped down
that quick,
1567
01:25:09,660 --> 01:25:11,787
'cause we all knew
exactly where our straps were
1568
01:25:11,788 --> 01:25:13,538
and what we were
supposed to do.
1569
01:25:13,539 --> 01:25:17,710
The time.
Do... do a process.
1570
01:25:17,711 --> 01:25:19,378
We trained on it.
1571
01:25:21,507 --> 01:25:23,633
It's the last time
you're gonna see...
1572
01:25:23,634 --> 01:25:26,427
I'm gonna see him
with his eyes open,
1573
01:25:26,428 --> 01:25:28,055
because after
the execution's done
1574
01:25:28,056 --> 01:25:30,182
and the process went
1575
01:25:30,183 --> 01:25:32,518
and then... then they call
the doctor in
1576
01:25:32,519 --> 01:25:36,189
to pronounce him dead,
1577
01:25:36,190 --> 01:25:37,816
then everybody leaves.
1578
01:25:37,817 --> 01:25:41,319
My job begins again 'cause
I have to go back in there,
1579
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:44,280
and that's... that's all...
1580
01:25:44,281 --> 01:25:46,450
also kind of difficult
1581
01:25:46,451 --> 01:25:51,747
because here you sit with this
individual eight or ten hours,
1582
01:25:51,748 --> 01:25:54,292
all day long,
1583
01:25:54,293 --> 01:25:57,254
and now the last thing
you're doing
1584
01:25:57,255 --> 01:26:00,340
is removing those straps.
1585
01:26:00,341 --> 01:26:01,883
The straps have to be removed
1586
01:26:01,884 --> 01:26:05,555
and put him on another gurney
for the funeral home.
1587
01:26:05,556 --> 01:26:07,557
And then, you thought...
1588
01:26:07,558 --> 01:26:09,767
you didn't think about
none of this
1589
01:26:09,768 --> 01:26:12,771
while you're doing this,
the procedure.
1590
01:26:12,772 --> 01:26:16,567
You know, none of this, you're...
you don't keep...
1591
01:26:16,568 --> 01:26:18,735
you don't put those emotions
out there.
1592
01:26:18,736 --> 01:26:24,450
Do you... you do the job
and go home.
1593
01:26:24,451 --> 01:26:29,080
- You did how many executions,
roughly?
1594
01:26:29,081 --> 01:26:32,835
- It was over 125, 120.
1595
01:26:32,836 --> 01:26:34,545
It was somewhere over 120.
1596
01:26:34,546 --> 01:26:36,046
It was a bunch.
1597
01:26:36,047 --> 01:26:38,508
We got to the point to where,
especially after I...
1598
01:26:38,509 --> 01:26:41,887
I think I promoted to captain
in '90.
1599
01:26:41,888 --> 01:26:45,307
We were doing two a week,
1600
01:26:45,308 --> 01:26:48,477
and that was getting tiresome.
1601
01:26:48,478 --> 01:26:50,855
- And what happened to you then?
1602
01:26:52,482 --> 01:26:57,988
I... back when they...
1603
01:26:57,989 --> 01:27:00,282
when they brought in
Karla Faye,
1604
01:27:00,283 --> 01:27:02,534
I stayed back there with her.
1605
01:27:02,535 --> 01:27:07,540
Now, definitely that was
the first female
1606
01:27:07,541 --> 01:27:10,376
that we were fixing to execute.
1607
01:27:10,377 --> 01:27:14,047
I remember one thing
so vividly,
1608
01:27:14,048 --> 01:27:16,884
that it was an hour before,
1609
01:27:16,885 --> 01:27:18,260
and I was standing there,
1610
01:27:18,261 --> 01:27:19,929
and the chaplain
was standing there,
1611
01:27:19,930 --> 01:27:21,472
and she looked at me,
and she goes,
1612
01:27:21,473 --> 01:27:25,477
"Thank you, Captain Allen,
for everything you've done."
1613
01:27:25,478 --> 01:27:27,312
I said, "You're welcome."
1614
01:27:27,313 --> 01:27:30,106
You know, that's all
I could say, you know.
1615
01:27:30,107 --> 01:27:31,858
What else can...
what else am I gonna say?
1616
01:27:31,859 --> 01:27:37,239
What, "I'm fixin' to strap
you down in another hour"?
1617
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:38,824
Which we went...
1618
01:27:38,825 --> 01:27:41,912
procedure and everything went
just the way it was supposed to.
1619
01:27:41,913 --> 01:27:44,247
You know,
she was pronounced dead.
1620
01:27:44,248 --> 01:27:46,041
I went back in there,
and I took the gurn...
1621
01:27:46,042 --> 01:27:47,501
took the straps off,
1622
01:27:47,502 --> 01:27:49,461
put her, you know,
on the gurney and that stuff.
1623
01:27:49,462 --> 01:27:52,215
We locked everything up,
went about our business,
1624
01:27:52,216 --> 01:27:55,134
and... and everything
was fine.
1625
01:27:55,135 --> 01:27:56,803
I had a little shop
in the back.
1626
01:27:56,804 --> 01:27:59,932
It was 6:00, and the news
come on over the radio,
1627
01:27:59,933 --> 01:28:01,350
and it started again,
1628
01:28:01,351 --> 01:28:06,981
and for some reason,
just out of the blue,
1629
01:28:06,982 --> 01:28:12,821
hearing it, it triggered me
seeing her hurt,
1630
01:28:12,822 --> 01:28:14,197
and I just started shaking.
1631
01:28:14,198 --> 01:28:16,616
I don't know what's wrong,
and then, it was...
1632
01:28:16,617 --> 01:28:18,035
- How badly did you shake?
1633
01:28:18,036 --> 01:28:20,579
- It was... it was...
it was a shake.
1634
01:28:20,580 --> 01:28:21,956
It was a shake.
1635
01:28:21,957 --> 01:28:24,583
Like, I couldn't...
why am I shaking?
1636
01:28:24,584 --> 01:28:25,960
And then I could see my...
1637
01:28:25,961 --> 01:28:30,340
I was sweating and in tears.
1638
01:28:30,341 --> 01:28:33,802
All of a sudden,
man, this... this is hurtin'.
1639
01:28:33,803 --> 01:28:36,514
I remembered her...
this was two days afterwards.
1640
01:28:36,515 --> 01:28:38,641
I remembered her execution.
1641
01:28:38,642 --> 01:28:40,518
Hers wasn't no different
than anybody else,
1642
01:28:40,519 --> 01:28:43,896
but it was hers,
1643
01:28:43,897 --> 01:28:49,611
and then I started actually
visualizing the other inmates
1644
01:28:49,612 --> 01:28:54,367
as... you asked me, "Did you look
in their eyes when they're"...
1645
01:28:54,368 --> 01:28:56,036
I could see 'em.
1646
01:28:56,037 --> 01:28:59,622
I could actually see 'em
in their holding cell again,
1647
01:28:59,623 --> 01:29:02,376
you know,
one right after another,
1648
01:29:02,377 --> 01:29:07,840
and it seemed like
there was just...
1649
01:29:07,841 --> 01:29:09,592
My wife goes,
"What's wrong with you?"
1650
01:29:09,593 --> 01:29:11,052
And I don't know.
1651
01:29:11,053 --> 01:29:13,263
I need to talk to somebody.
1652
01:29:13,264 --> 01:29:15,974
And the first person I could
think of to call was Carroll,
1653
01:29:15,975 --> 01:29:17,726
Chaplain Pickett,
1654
01:29:17,727 --> 01:29:19,144
and he come over to the house,
1655
01:29:19,145 --> 01:29:24,067
and we sat on that old swing,
and I started coming down,
1656
01:29:24,068 --> 01:29:25,902
and I... he says,
"What's wrong?"
1657
01:29:25,903 --> 01:29:27,570
And I told him,
1658
01:29:27,571 --> 01:29:29,323
and then I looked at Carroll,
and I said,
1659
01:29:29,324 --> 01:29:31,366
"I can't do it no more.
1660
01:29:31,367 --> 01:29:34,244
"That's it.
I'm... I'm done.
1661
01:29:34,245 --> 01:29:38,917
I can't... I can't
go back there any more."
1662
01:29:38,918 --> 01:29:42,796
- Could it be that you thought
that this was not yourself
1663
01:29:42,797 --> 01:29:48,052
but maybe it was
your real self that moment?
1664
01:29:48,053 --> 01:29:49,929
- That's a good possibility.
1665
01:29:51,932 --> 01:29:53,516
- What's really
deep inside of you...
1666
01:29:53,517 --> 01:29:54,892
- Yes.
1667
01:29:54,893 --> 01:29:57,687
- Came out.
1668
01:29:57,688 --> 01:30:00,023
- That's a good...
that's very...
1669
01:30:00,024 --> 01:30:03,068
I mean, that's...
I mean, from that point on,
1670
01:30:03,069 --> 01:30:07,573
I mean, I've had
a different outlook in life.
1671
01:30:07,574 --> 01:30:10,451
If executions was the law,
1672
01:30:10,452 --> 01:30:13,663
then I was gonna make sure
that it was done professionally,
1673
01:30:13,664 --> 01:30:15,833
with integrity.
1674
01:30:15,834 --> 01:30:22,297
After Karla... and I was
pro capital punishment.
1675
01:30:22,298 --> 01:30:24,801
After Karla Faye
and after all this,
1676
01:30:24,802 --> 01:30:27,262
until this day,
11 years later...
1677
01:30:29,140 --> 01:30:32,100
No, sir.
1678
01:30:32,101 --> 01:30:34,770
I don't... nobody has the right
to take another life.
1679
01:30:34,771 --> 01:30:39,441
I don't care if it's the law.
1680
01:30:39,442 --> 01:30:42,612
And it's so easy
to change the law.
1681
01:31:05,346 --> 01:31:07,806
- I... I don't want to sound, um...
1682
01:31:09,185 --> 01:31:12,979
Like a evil person or...
1683
01:31:12,980 --> 01:31:14,731
but I am so glad
I went to the execution.
1684
01:31:14,732 --> 01:31:16,149
I really am.
1685
01:31:16,150 --> 01:31:19,528
I fought with my...
with myself about going.
1686
01:31:19,529 --> 01:31:23,657
I reserved this... the seat
so I could be there,
1687
01:31:23,658 --> 01:31:25,743
but I'm glad I went.
1688
01:31:25,744 --> 01:31:27,120
I'm really glad I went.
1689
01:31:27,121 --> 01:31:29,664
It... it really
did something to me.
1690
01:31:29,665 --> 01:31:34,169
- Yeah.
What did it do?
1691
01:31:34,170 --> 01:31:35,671
- I don't...
I don't know what...
1692
01:31:35,672 --> 01:31:38,466
I don't know what happened,
1693
01:31:38,467 --> 01:31:41,010
but I...
immediately after the execution,
1694
01:31:41,011 --> 01:31:43,179
I felt like a...
1695
01:31:43,180 --> 01:31:46,475
that saying,
a huge weight had been lifted.
1696
01:31:46,476 --> 01:31:49,144
I actually could take
a deep breath.
1697
01:31:49,145 --> 01:31:54,442
My heart didn't ache as much.
1698
01:31:54,443 --> 01:31:55,818
I remember walking in
1699
01:31:55,819 --> 01:31:58,863
and thinking,
"This looks like a boy."
1700
01:31:58,864 --> 01:32:01,074
I had built this huge monster,
1701
01:32:01,075 --> 01:32:07,414
evil, you know,
murdering monster in my head,
1702
01:32:07,415 --> 01:32:09,333
and he was just a boy.
1703
01:32:10,961 --> 01:32:13,213
He was just a boy
laying on that gurney.
1704
01:32:22,432 --> 01:32:26,143
When I walked in,
he looked at me,
1705
01:32:26,144 --> 01:32:28,688
and he looked away,
and he did a double take.
1706
01:32:28,689 --> 01:32:30,899
Same thing Jason Burkett
did in court.
1707
01:32:30,900 --> 01:32:32,317
I look like my mom.
1708
01:32:32,318 --> 01:32:34,194
I look a lot like my mother.
1709
01:32:35,488 --> 01:32:37,572
- And what did he say?
1710
01:32:37,573 --> 01:32:39,242
- He forgave us.
1711
01:32:39,243 --> 01:32:41,619
He forgave us.
1712
01:32:41,620 --> 01:32:42,996
Yeah.
1713
01:32:42,997 --> 01:32:44,831
And I was upset
when I walked in.
1714
01:32:44,832 --> 01:32:46,708
I was crying.
1715
01:32:46,709 --> 01:32:48,585
You know, our whole...
my whole family,
1716
01:32:48,586 --> 01:32:51,588
we didn't want to see
someone die, you know.
1717
01:32:51,589 --> 01:32:54,591
No one should have to do...
go through that,
1718
01:32:54,592 --> 01:32:57,971
but we were there for my mother,
you know, and my brother,
1719
01:32:57,972 --> 01:33:01,016
and we were crying,
and when he said he forgave us...
1720
01:33:01,017 --> 01:33:02,392
- For what?
1721
01:33:02,393 --> 01:33:04,602
- For the atrocity
brought against him.
1722
01:33:14,907 --> 01:33:18,744
And then he said
he's ready to go.
1723
01:33:18,745 --> 01:33:21,580
I heard his mother cry,
1724
01:33:21,581 --> 01:33:25,918
and they gave him
the injection.
1725
01:33:25,919 --> 01:33:30,923
He gasped for air four times.
1726
01:33:43,773 --> 01:33:45,565
I watched his shirt thump,
1727
01:33:45,566 --> 01:33:47,942
you know, his heart
beating on his shirt.
1728
01:33:47,943 --> 01:33:52,239
I watched it till it stopped,
and it stopped at 6:14.
1729
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:55,117
One tear fell down his eye,
one tear.
1730
01:33:56,661 --> 01:33:59,873
And he was gone,
and it was over.
1731
01:34:05,963 --> 01:34:08,341
- And the prospect of someone
1732
01:34:08,342 --> 01:34:11,302
who is gonna be locked away
for life without parole,
1733
01:34:11,303 --> 01:34:12,762
would that satisfy...
1734
01:34:12,763 --> 01:34:14,222
- Definitely.
- Yes.
1735
01:34:14,223 --> 01:34:15,640
- Definitely.
1736
01:34:15,641 --> 01:34:20,229
- So it would be definitely
an alternative,
1737
01:34:20,230 --> 01:34:23,440
because death penalty sounds
a little bit too much
1738
01:34:23,441 --> 01:34:26,151
like old Testament,
the wrath of God.
1739
01:34:26,152 --> 01:34:27,529
- An eye for an eye.
1740
01:34:27,530 --> 01:34:31,199
- Jesus probably would not
have been an advocate of...
1741
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:32,659
- Probably not.
1742
01:34:32,660 --> 01:34:34,994
Probably not.
1743
01:34:34,995 --> 01:34:38,499
But some people
just don't deserve to live.
1744
01:34:41,378 --> 01:34:43,629
- Can I say something?
- Please.
1745
01:34:43,630 --> 01:34:45,715
- I know on July the 1st
is when they...
1746
01:34:45,716 --> 01:34:49,886
they executed Michael,
1747
01:34:49,887 --> 01:34:53,516
and... and I knew Michael
pretty well.
1748
01:34:53,517 --> 01:34:54,892
- Yeah.
1749
01:34:54,893 --> 01:34:56,269
- And I kept up with...
1750
01:34:56,270 --> 01:34:58,938
I have every kind of clipping
and website thing
1751
01:34:58,939 --> 01:35:00,690
I have on him and Jason.
1752
01:35:00,691 --> 01:35:03,026
I have, like, a whole
locker box full.
1753
01:35:03,027 --> 01:35:06,363
So I know as much about him
as anybody,
1754
01:35:06,364 --> 01:35:09,700
and Michael was just...
just like Jason.
1755
01:35:09,701 --> 01:35:11,828
They were both young,
1756
01:35:11,829 --> 01:35:14,789
and whatever they did
or didn't do, I don't know.
1757
01:35:14,790 --> 01:35:18,293
I was not there,
but Michael was just a...
1758
01:35:18,294 --> 01:35:24,091
was just a young... a young kid,
and I know he...
1759
01:35:24,092 --> 01:35:27,720
I know when they executed him,
I know how he...
1760
01:35:27,721 --> 01:35:32,017
I know his last words
and everything else,
1761
01:35:32,018 --> 01:35:38,274
and I know,
by executing Michael,
1762
01:35:38,275 --> 01:35:41,110
I don't think it brought
any of those people back,
1763
01:35:41,111 --> 01:35:43,404
and I don't think
it deterred anything.
1764
01:35:43,405 --> 01:35:45,615
I... I don't think it deterred
anybody out there.
1765
01:35:45,616 --> 01:35:49,244
As much publicized as it was,
it did not deter anything,
1766
01:35:49,245 --> 01:35:51,663
and I really do not believe
that it solved anything
1767
01:35:51,664 --> 01:35:56,001
by taking another life,
and it hurt me.
1768
01:35:56,002 --> 01:35:58,254
When it come time
for his execution,
1769
01:35:58,255 --> 01:36:01,216
I knew it was gonna be
about 6:00,
1770
01:36:01,217 --> 01:36:03,718
usually a few minutes
after 6:00 P.M.,
1771
01:36:03,719 --> 01:36:08,349
and I was on my knees
at my bunk for Michael,
1772
01:36:08,350 --> 01:36:10,768
praying for Michael,
1773
01:36:10,769 --> 01:36:14,272
and a feeling come over me
1774
01:36:14,273 --> 01:36:17,400
right about ten...
five or ten minutes after 6:00,
1775
01:36:17,401 --> 01:36:20,070
a feeling come over me
that's hard...
1776
01:36:20,071 --> 01:36:21,655
very, very hard to explain.
1777
01:36:21,656 --> 01:36:25,326
It was like I felt the loss of...
1778
01:36:25,327 --> 01:36:28,454
of what used to be
my son's best friend.
1779
01:36:28,455 --> 01:36:30,831
I felt...
I felt that.
1780
01:36:30,832 --> 01:36:34,419
I felt that pain
whenever they killed him.
1781
01:36:36,923 --> 01:36:38,298
But I just wish those fam...
1782
01:36:38,299 --> 01:36:40,133
the family members
would know that,
1783
01:36:40,134 --> 01:36:44,347
how much that I... I hurt
for their loss.
1784
01:36:44,348 --> 01:36:46,641
That's very important,
and Michael never, never...
1785
01:36:46,642 --> 01:36:48,059
that's what upset them,
1786
01:36:48,060 --> 01:36:50,938
'cause Michael never tried
to reach out to 'em.
1787
01:36:50,939 --> 01:36:53,023
I wished I could
and say I'm sorry.
1788
01:36:53,024 --> 01:36:54,275
- Yeah.
1789
01:38:04,854 --> 01:38:06,980
Melyssa, let me address
one thing.
1790
01:38:06,981 --> 01:38:09,733
Among death row inmates,
1791
01:38:09,734 --> 01:38:14,530
there's such a phenomenon
like death row groupies,
1792
01:38:14,531 --> 01:38:20,036
the same way rock stars
have groupies,
1793
01:38:20,037 --> 01:38:21,872
and you have seen women
like that.
1794
01:38:21,873 --> 01:38:23,874
- I have seen women like that,
in fairness.
1795
01:38:23,875 --> 01:38:26,377
I've also seen women who are
married to death row inmates
1796
01:38:26,378 --> 01:38:29,422
in truly committed
relationships
1797
01:38:29,423 --> 01:38:32,050
that I believe
are not disingenuous
1798
01:38:32,051 --> 01:38:34,552
and I believe
come from their heart.
1799
01:38:34,553 --> 01:38:36,888
You know, some people are just
supposed to be together,
1800
01:38:36,889 --> 01:38:39,934
whether there's a cage
and lawman between you.
1801
01:38:39,935 --> 01:38:41,352
I believe that.
1802
01:38:41,353 --> 01:38:42,728
I mean, I do believe that
1803
01:38:42,729 --> 01:38:44,897
there's a fair amount of women
who want attention,
1804
01:38:44,898 --> 01:38:48,610
who want media coverage,
who seek out infamous men.
1805
01:38:48,611 --> 01:38:51,071
I mean, like Scott Peterson
gets a hundred letters a day
1806
01:38:51,072 --> 01:38:52,447
on death row in California.
1807
01:38:52,448 --> 01:38:53,824
That's ridiculous.
1808
01:38:53,825 --> 01:38:55,242
- He murdered
his pregnant wife.
1809
01:38:55,243 --> 01:38:56,619
- Yes.
1810
01:38:56,620 --> 01:38:58,913
- Is that correct, that case?
Yeah, a good... looking man.
1811
01:38:58,914 --> 01:39:00,289
- Good looking man.
1812
01:39:00,290 --> 01:39:05,129
- However, Jason
is not an ugly man either.
1813
01:39:05,130 --> 01:39:07,256
Describe him to us, please.
1814
01:39:07,257 --> 01:39:09,842
- Like, physically?
- Yes.
1815
01:39:09,843 --> 01:39:12,344
You only have touched his hand.
1816
01:39:12,345 --> 01:39:14,305
Describe his hands to us.
1817
01:39:17,143 --> 01:39:18,643
- They're a lot bigger
than mine.
1818
01:39:18,644 --> 01:39:21,104
I'll start there.
I have really tiny hands.
1819
01:39:21,105 --> 01:39:23,774
He always... Jason,
he holds hands funny,
1820
01:39:23,775 --> 01:39:26,235
and he always holds my hand
kind of like that
1821
01:39:26,236 --> 01:39:30,197
as opposed to intertwined,
so he holds on to me,
1822
01:39:30,198 --> 01:39:32,868
and I just know
that his hands are massive,
1823
01:39:32,869 --> 01:39:35,871
because he wears
a ring size 11.
1824
01:39:35,872 --> 01:39:39,332
Our wedding rings,
it's an 111/2,
1825
01:39:39,333 --> 01:39:43,337
and I wear a 4,
so he can totally cup my hand.
1826
01:39:47,301 --> 01:39:49,635
- Were you allowed
to touch each other?
1827
01:39:49,636 --> 01:39:51,263
Hug each other?
1828
01:39:51,264 --> 01:39:52,931
Exchange rings?
1829
01:39:52,932 --> 01:39:56,310
- No.
1830
01:39:56,311 --> 01:39:58,437
I still can't get a ring.
1831
01:39:58,438 --> 01:40:02,025
- And you were separated
by a glass wall or...
1832
01:40:02,026 --> 01:40:03,818
- Just like this right here,
1833
01:40:03,819 --> 01:40:05,528
except for we had a phone,
1834
01:40:05,529 --> 01:40:09,241
and it was solid right here,
solid glass.
1835
01:40:09,242 --> 01:40:12,495
- But when she comes for visits,
are you allowed to hug her?
1836
01:40:12,496 --> 01:40:14,079
- I am now.
1837
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:16,040
After we married,
I'm allowed to hug her.
1838
01:40:16,041 --> 01:40:19,503
I'm allowed to give her a kiss
before and after visit.
1839
01:40:19,504 --> 01:40:21,379
We're allowed to hold hands
on the table
1840
01:40:21,380 --> 01:40:23,006
and have contact and speak.
1841
01:40:23,007 --> 01:40:26,511
- But of course... of course
with a guard present.
1842
01:40:26,512 --> 01:40:29,347
- As close as you are to me.
1843
01:40:29,348 --> 01:40:31,224
- And you would like
to have children.
1844
01:40:31,225 --> 01:40:32,600
- Yes, sir.
1845
01:40:32,601 --> 01:40:34,811
- How would that happen?
1846
01:40:34,812 --> 01:40:37,189
How... what sort of option
is there?
1847
01:40:37,190 --> 01:40:39,399
- I want 50 children.
She wants 2.
1848
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:42,236
So, I mean,
we have to work on this.
1849
01:40:42,237 --> 01:40:45,490
I want children
for different reasons.
1850
01:40:45,491 --> 01:40:48,785
I want children with her
specifically because I love her.
1851
01:40:48,786 --> 01:40:50,286
I want to be with her.
1852
01:40:50,287 --> 01:40:55,709
I want to give her something
that she'll always have with me.
1853
01:40:55,710 --> 01:40:57,753
- I'm under the impression
seeing you now
1854
01:40:57,754 --> 01:41:02,217
that you became pregnant
only a few days
1855
01:41:02,218 --> 01:41:06,054
after we met your husband.
1856
01:41:06,055 --> 01:41:08,765
- You guys met him
on the 18th of october?
1857
01:41:08,766 --> 01:41:10,600
- I think so, yeah,
something like that.
1858
01:41:10,601 --> 01:41:13,229
- Yeah, I believe my baby
was made
1859
01:41:13,230 --> 01:41:16,274
on the 23rd of october,
approximately.
1860
01:41:16,275 --> 01:41:17,775
- Right after
we saw your husband.
1861
01:41:17,776 --> 01:41:21,113
- 23rd or 24th.
1862
01:41:21,114 --> 01:41:24,116
- You went into action.
1863
01:41:24,117 --> 01:41:28,245
So to speak.
1864
01:41:28,246 --> 01:41:32,208
- And the father of the baby
is your husband.
1865
01:41:32,209 --> 01:41:34,752
- Legally, will be Jason, yes.
1866
01:41:34,753 --> 01:41:38,048
- And it is Jason biologically,
legally...
1867
01:41:38,049 --> 01:41:40,968
- I can't say that.
- In every single sense.
1868
01:41:40,969 --> 01:41:45,723
Since you are not allowed
to do more than touching hands,
1869
01:41:45,724 --> 01:41:49,060
how do you become pregnant?
1870
01:41:49,061 --> 01:41:50,604
There's a mystery.
1871
01:41:50,605 --> 01:41:52,606
- Yeah, it's kind of a mystery.
1872
01:41:52,607 --> 01:41:55,442
There's people involved
that I don't want to mention.
1873
01:41:55,443 --> 01:41:59,280
- No, we would not
imply anyone,
1874
01:41:59,281 --> 01:42:02,283
but I have to speculate.
1875
01:42:02,284 --> 01:42:08,165
Is there such a thing like
contraband entering prisons,
1876
01:42:08,166 --> 01:42:13,378
like, let's say, drugs,
cell phones, illegal messages,
1877
01:42:13,379 --> 01:42:16,716
there seems to be something
the other way round,
1878
01:42:16,717 --> 01:42:21,054
contraband from the prison
to the outside,
1879
01:42:21,055 --> 01:42:23,182
and you became pregnant.
1880
01:42:23,183 --> 01:42:24,558
- Well, we...
1881
01:42:24,559 --> 01:42:26,018
- Can we formulate it
like this?
1882
01:42:26,019 --> 01:42:30,522
- We... we prefer to say that
I was artificially inseminated.
1883
01:42:42,746 --> 01:42:46,415
- Do you have a name
for the boy?
1884
01:42:46,416 --> 01:42:48,751
- Well, we've...
we came up with Easton.
1885
01:42:48,752 --> 01:42:51,505
Easton Aaron.
1886
01:42:51,506 --> 01:42:53,507
- Can you show us?
I think there's a face.
1887
01:42:53,508 --> 01:42:56,176
Can you point it out?
- It's right there.
1888
01:42:56,177 --> 01:42:59,514
If you actually can see it
close enough,
1889
01:42:59,515 --> 01:43:02,475
you can tell my baby
has my strong jaw.
1890
01:43:16,032 --> 01:43:18,201
You live on
through your children,
1891
01:43:18,202 --> 01:43:20,370
and the love
that you put into them
1892
01:43:20,371 --> 01:43:22,455
projects to the world.
1893
01:43:22,456 --> 01:43:23,832
My parents are both gone,
1894
01:43:23,833 --> 01:43:25,500
and I had this big hole
in my heart,
1895
01:43:25,501 --> 01:43:28,546
and I realized
that what you do is,
1896
01:43:28,547 --> 01:43:32,508
you take all of that love,
and you give it back.
1897
01:43:34,386 --> 01:43:36,930
I mean, nothing else matters.
1898
01:44:07,923 --> 01:44:11,969
- I actually have this shirt
tacked up on my wall.
1899
01:44:11,970 --> 01:44:14,764
- Can I see the shirt?
Can you turn it around?
1900
01:44:19,561 --> 01:44:24,024
- I just make sure...
and somebody told me about the...
1901
01:44:24,025 --> 01:44:26,193
the live your dash,
1902
01:44:26,194 --> 01:44:29,572
and that's really,
after all this...
1903
01:44:29,573 --> 01:44:31,491
that I went through
and quit and everything,
1904
01:44:31,492 --> 01:44:35,244
then I heard the story
telling me live your dash.
1905
01:44:35,245 --> 01:44:37,705
How do you... how are you gonna
live your dash?
1906
01:44:37,706 --> 01:44:39,083
And I didn't understand.
1907
01:44:39,084 --> 01:44:40,667
"What are you
talking about 'dash'?"
1908
01:44:40,668 --> 01:44:43,087
It's on your tombstone.
1909
01:44:43,088 --> 01:44:45,214
You got your birth date,
1910
01:44:45,215 --> 01:44:47,383
and you got the day
that you decease,
1911
01:44:47,384 --> 01:44:49,219
and you got that little dash
in the middle.
1912
01:44:49,220 --> 01:44:51,805
That's your life right there.
1913
01:44:51,806 --> 01:44:54,140
That's your...
that's everything between
1914
01:44:54,141 --> 01:44:56,477
from the time you was born
from the time you die.
1915
01:44:56,478 --> 01:44:58,604
How are you gonna
live your dash?
1916
01:44:58,605 --> 01:45:00,731
And that's where I'm at now.
1917
01:45:00,732 --> 01:45:05,487
I'm gonna live my dash
and make sure that everything,
1918
01:45:05,488 --> 01:45:09,908
try to make everything right
for the family, everybody.
1919
01:45:09,909 --> 01:45:14,539
Hold still and watch the birds.
1920
01:45:14,540 --> 01:45:17,917
And you know, once you
get up into your life like that
1921
01:45:17,918 --> 01:45:20,795
and once you feel good
about your life,
1922
01:45:20,796 --> 01:45:25,217
you under... you do start watching
what the birds do, you know,
1923
01:45:25,218 --> 01:45:27,386
what the ducks are doing,
like, the hummingbirds.
1924
01:45:27,387 --> 01:45:29,680
Wow, there's so many of them.
139492
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.