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hi this is justin colletti of sonic
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scoop thanks for joining me for this
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week's episode of the sonic scoop
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podcast and today i'm going to be giving
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you my three big
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key takeaways from a awesome mixcon
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masterclass that just went down
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with two dudes who are major forces in
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the world of film score composing
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and composing for games and tv shows
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jake jackson award-winning film score
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mixer and christian henson
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who is an award-winning film score
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composer they've worked on
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major games tv shows movies things like
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star wars loki black mirror
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doctor who they've worked with a bunch
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of artists as well i believe jake has
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worked with the likes of
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boney bear nick cave laura pussini
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christians worked with
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artists from bands like massive attack
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and blur and the list just goes on and
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on
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but the master class they gave us was
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really about
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working with sample libraries and
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working with live recorded instruments
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and kind of making those two things
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blend together so for anyone out there
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who's either
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working in the scoring world or relies
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heavily on orchestral sample libraries
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or just
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occasionally uses them in their work i
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think there's some great insights in
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this one that we're going to go into in
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some detail today
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of course for the long version we've got
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an hour plus mixed mixcon presentation
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definitely want to check that out right
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here on our youtube channel
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but if you want the quick cliff notes
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version you're going to get right now in
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podcast format
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from me i was able to kind of go in
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there and distill quickly down
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some of i think the core takeaways big
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quick shout out and thanks to our
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sponsors spitfire audio both christian
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and jake
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have made sample libraries for those
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guys you gotta check out them at
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spitfireaudio.com making some of the
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best libraries out there
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also a big shout out and thanks to
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soundtoys one of my favorite makers of
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creative
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mixing effects and you'll see jake
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jackson use some of their stuff on the
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mix
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even their crystallizer and some
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interesting effects that you might not
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expect
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to see in an orchestral mix as well as
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fabfilter also
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sponsoring this month and fabfilter
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again shows up in jake jackson's mixes
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is actually probably
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the primary eq i saw him use and i want
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to
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give you some of the insights i got
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about using eq in the orchestral
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and film score context from jake jackson
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and watching the way he works
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all right let's dive right into it so
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big takeaway
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number one that came up more than once
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is that jake has worked with bands
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mixing for bands and like conventional
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pop rock
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idiom right and he's also done extensive
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work in the film score world
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and he'd be one of the first to tell you
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that these are two entirely different
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animals
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and the mix approach and mix process is
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very much different
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one of the things that came up is a lot
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of the kind of mixing tricks that we're
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aware of and used to and know in the
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context of
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working with traditional pop and rock
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and hip hop whatever
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electronic multi-tracks don't apply
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to film score mixing and orchestral
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mixing
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a lot of the things you might expect to
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do to really kind of
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go in and carve out areas so you can fit
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all these puzzle pieces together doesn't
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or at least shouldn't happen
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in the orchestral scoring and film score
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world
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most of the time and we'll talk about
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some key exceptions to that
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but the eq that jake is doing is pretty
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minimal
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the biggest thing is they're selecting
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the right sounds
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from the instrument libraries to begin
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with and then once they've created
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a full demo that honestly christian's
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demo that he created just by himself
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using nothing but like the spitfire
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audio libraries to compose the track
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sounded pretty darn good and sounded
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better than a lot of scores right off
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the bat
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but then they went to famous air studios
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in london
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and tracked a multi-piece orchestra to
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go over that demo
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and basically blended that demo together
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with the new
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string sections they captured and in
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that context
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you're getting great sounds in a great
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space recorded going in
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and you're selecting the right sample
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sounds for the mood you want to evoke
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and you're not necessarily going in and
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doing the
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puzzle pieces of eq to reshape things
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you're not going in and doing
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radical compression the most common
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effect that's used there
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is something like reverb and we'll talk
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about jake's approach to reverb
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but for jake the mix in this context is
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a lot more
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about just balancing things the mixing
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part of mixing
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becomes the most essential and important
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part
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and a lot of what he's dealing with is
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what should be featured and when
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which elements should be brought forward
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a little closer to the listener and
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sound a little bit more edgy
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which one should be pushed a little
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further back in the soundscape
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how can we get the thing to sound wide
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without losing focus
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so so much of what he's doing is with
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level
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balance pan and then
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reverb sends and there's just a couple
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of reverbs in here i mean there's
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actually 24 reverbs but they're the same
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two or so reverbs again and again and
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we'll get into that in a little bit
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in just a second some more detail there
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but
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his use of eq really speaks to this
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approach where
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a lot of the time he's going in there
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and trying to make things
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just sound a little prettier a little
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bit more impressive a little bit
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better using eq and he'll often do
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one or two bell cuts or boost and you
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see this happen again
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and again and again he grabs his
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fabfilter pro-q
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eq and he finds a spot
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say in the upper mid-range on strings
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that might need to be softened
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he remarked that in a lot of sample
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libraries there's a little bit of extra
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brightness in strings in the
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2 to 3k region that gives them a little
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bit more edge than you might
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want if you compare that to real
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finished film scores that are
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recorded on the scoring stage so often
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go in some of those sounds and dip
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in that area say 2 or 3k
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and then there might be a corresponding
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boost down lower in the frequency
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spectrum
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so he might have a little cut between 1
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and 3 db and a little boost down bottom
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between
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1 and 3 db and he's looking to
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enhance the overall sound and this is
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very different
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advice than you'll likely be given from
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advanced mixers
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in the pop and rock world and the hip
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hop world in the edm world where it's
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like hey sometimes you need to reshape
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things dramatically
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and don't even listen to these things in
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solo and if you do boost some cuts of
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5 and 6 db that could be okay
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it's not always necessary sometimes you
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don't want to touch anything with eq but
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it could potentially be okay
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to make the puzzle pieces fit together
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to give everything the separation it
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needs
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but here in the orchestral context the
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goal is not
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necessarily separation the goal
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again and again christian brings up is
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to make all these players
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sound like they're in the same room
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together that's the aesthetic that
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christian
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the composer is going for and that's the
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aesthetic that jake is looking for in
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the mix
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and that's what you'll hear in a lot of
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really impressive film
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scores how to make these people feel
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like they're in the same
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room together acting almost as a
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singular instrument with lots of
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different parts within its personality
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so it's a little bit different than
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the traditional rock and pop context
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that a lot of
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new mixers might be used to so
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the eq often gentle and often two
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corresponding boosts and cuts i talked
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about
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him often using bells fairly wide
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and it could be the opposite what i just
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said so in another
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particular instrument he dipped that
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same 2 to 3k area
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but then above it lifted up the high
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frequency
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kind of reshaping that area in
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yet another sound he found a little bit
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of a high mid-range boost to bring out
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and then did a corresponding little cut
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in the low end
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using the frequency analyzer in the
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pro-q exactly the way it recommended to
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first
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by ear say which area do i want to cut
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oh it's probably somewhere
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here between 100 and 200 and now i'm
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just going to double check my frequency
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analyzer so i can zero in on the exact
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frequency
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again doing fairly broad boosts and cuts
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bell filter fairly wide and you just saw
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that approach come up again and again
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and only on a very very
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minor group of things like mandolin here
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and there you'd see
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extreme low frequency roll-offs but
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often that kind of thing wasn't
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happening
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now another thing that's a little bit
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different is the use of reverb here
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there were something like you know close
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to 100 or so ish
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tracks on this session and there ended
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up being 24 different reverbs that
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sounds like a lot right
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but those 24 reverbs are actually there
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just so he can more easily
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make stems in the mix because they
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ultimately want to send stemmed out
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versions to the
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final mix for the the final
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film mix so that in case there's a line
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of dialogue that's getting lost they
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could just pull down the percussion or
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just pull down the strings
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or whatever it is rather than
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necessarily having to pull up and down
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all the music
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so they're sending a final mix of stems
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it has the
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reverb baked into them so really for
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convenience more than anything
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there's 20 something different reverb
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tracks
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but they're really relying on
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predominantly two reverbs
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that are stacked together there
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is a convolutional reverb in this case
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is the altiverb reverb
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and there is also an algorithmic reverb
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and those two reverbs layered together
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both christian and jake found that they
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sound a little bit more
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natural to them in the respect that you
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don't hear the specific character
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of either one of these reverbs and
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basically everything in the entire mix
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was sent to those
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two reverbs so that they could feel like
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they're in the same room together
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there was also one third reverb that was
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crazy long and had about a 10 second
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tail on it
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and that was really used more for
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special effects and special instances
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00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,440
sparingly here and there so your primary
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stack of two reverbs that were filling
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in each other's holes the convolutional
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reverb
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and the algorithmic reverb stacked on
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top of each other
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kind of medium longish and then a super
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long
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effective reverb that was used for
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particular
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specific elements and
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that gets me into yet another big idea
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00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,680
from this which is that
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there are certain elements where
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all the things i just said go out the
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window a little bit
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00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,120
so in this particular mix there was like
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a prepared piano
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where i think christian had molested and
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00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,720
destroyed mutilated
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some poor old piano that's about to be
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thrown away with you know nails and
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screws and saw blades and things
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and for an instrument like that they
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00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,040
weren't afraid to use things like delays
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00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,680
like the super long reverb maybe doing a
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00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:03,519
little bit more eq and a little bit more
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00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:05,360
processing than you'd otherwise see
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00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,519
there was a synth in there where jake
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wasn't afraid to go in and add a chorus
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00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:10,720
pedal to it
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so there are more synthetic elements
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00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:14,320
even in this
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00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,320
context where you can take a more
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00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:17,839
synthetic approach
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00:11:17,839 --> 00:11:19,519
and then there's the more natural
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sounding elements where they took
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00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:24,000
a very very natural sounding approach so
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00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,440
i think we've gotten to a bunch of ideas
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00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,040
that are ready that's kind of almost
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00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,000
three and the last big thing that was an
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00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:30,480
interesting
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00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,480
takeaway here is just the way they work
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00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:33,680
as far as
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00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,079
client revisions and mixing with or
360
00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:37,680
without the client
361
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:40,640
and both christian and jake prefer to
362
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:41,279
mix
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00:11:41,279 --> 00:11:44,640
without the client there in the room in
364
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,240
this case i'm referring to
365
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,880
christian the composer as the client
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00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:49,760
even though they
367
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,600
both of them had yet another client the
368
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:52,800
end director
369
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,880
but you know in the jake christian
370
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,959
relationship the composer christian is
371
00:11:56,959 --> 00:11:59,279
kind of the client to jake the mixer
372
00:11:59,279 --> 00:12:02,320
and christian really prefer to
373
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,200
start off in the morning listening to
374
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,880
some stuff and going over notes with
375
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,120
jake and then letting jake do his thing
376
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,600
and then coming back later for the same
377
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:12,959
kind of process rather than
378
00:12:12,959 --> 00:12:15,440
being there with him the whole time and
379
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,120
i've got to say
380
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,120
i would generally agree that this is a
381
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:20,639
better approach to
382
00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:22,800
having the client in the chair in the
383
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,000
room with you all the time
384
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,920
unless they're someone who's really
385
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,680
super interested in mixing themselves
386
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:29,600
but honestly sometimes those are the
387
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:30,959
worst people to have in the room with
388
00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:31,519
you
389
00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:34,079
and sometimes the biggest benefit that
390
00:12:34,079 --> 00:12:34,720
that end
391
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,279
client or producer or decider is going
392
00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:38,399
to offer
393
00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:40,240
is the benefit of them coming in with
394
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,240
fresh ears listening to things from a
395
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:43,760
big picture perspective
396
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,040
and talking about the few basic core
397
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,880
important things that need to change
398
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,000
instead of getting in there and
399
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,040
micromanaging
400
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,880
so you can have one person who's kind of
401
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,680
zoomed out and one person who's kind of
402
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,240
zoomed in and jake also talks about how
403
00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,920
having christian the composer
404
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,639
come in on occasion and listen to the
405
00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:02,959
stuff
406
00:13:02,959 --> 00:13:05,200
with him and just give notes helps him
407
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,160
zoom out
408
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,240
and christian really recommends doing
409
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,200
this in
410
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,320
this context i believe he's talking
411
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,399
about you know maybe once a day
412
00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:13,519
first thing in the morning to kind of
413
00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:16,320
check in on the latest batch of mixes
414
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,639
rather than having jake go through the
415
00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:19,600
entire mix
416
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,000
the entire you know two hours worth of
417
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,519
score material
418
00:13:23,519 --> 00:13:26,160
mix all of that and then give it back to
419
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,760
christian for notes
420
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,760
they took a different approach which was
421
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,880
let's mix the first
422
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,399
handful of cues i'll just mix them to
423
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:34,560
the best of my ability me jake the mixer
424
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:36,000
and now that i'm done with that
425
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,600
christian come on in give me your
426
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,320
feedback
427
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:39,920
tell me for going in the right direction
428
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,920
with this give me your notes on it
429
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,560
let's perfect these first few cues great
430
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,399
now i can use that as an overall
431
00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:47,839
template and idea for
432
00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:49,920
your taste where we want to go and now
433
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,199
i'll go through the next
434
00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:53,519
you know half dozen or so cues and we'll
435
00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:54,639
check back on that one
436
00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:56,320
and hopefully as the process goes on
437
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:57,839
there's fewer and fewer notes
438
00:13:57,839 --> 00:13:59,920
and i found a process like that to work
439
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,760
exceptionally well for me these days in
440
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:02,480
mastering
441
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,120
where when i'm mastering a album for a
442
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:05,760
client
443
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,440
sometimes i really love if we have the
444
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,560
time to just work on one track together
445
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,360
really get that one shining very well
446
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,120
kind of go back and forth a little bit
447
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,440
on it and let that track then set the
448
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,040
template for the rest of the record
449
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,120
and that can be a decent way to work
450
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,880
when time allows for it
451
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,160
and in mixing in standard context
452
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,639
of more popular music that same kind of
453
00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:30,160
approach can work really well
454
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:31,680
rather than mixing the entire album and
455
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,600
then getting feedback starting with a
456
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,480
track or two
457
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,320
getting the feedback on those and then
458
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,720
using that feedback to fold into the
459
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,880
rest of the mix process
460
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,160
well i hope those were some decent
461
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,839
insights for you i really implore you if
462
00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:44,560
you have the
463
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,720
hour to check it out the full length
464
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,639
mixcon masterclass from these two it's
465
00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:48,880
an
466
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,440
absolutely beautiful and a little bit
467
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,440
kind of terrifying suspenseful
468
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,680
score from christian hanson and a great
469
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:56,639
mix from
470
00:14:56,639 --> 00:14:58,560
jake jackson you'll hear the before and
471
00:14:58,560 --> 00:14:59,839
after and although
472
00:14:59,839 --> 00:15:02,720
i'm a big proponent of you know it not
473
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,320
all being about little choices and
474
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:05,760
mixing and sometimes you got to look for
475
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,600
the big wins and the big changes that
476
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,360
are really going to make a difference
477
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,600
man i've got to say jake in this mix
478
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:12,639
does so many
479
00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:14,880
little things that really do add up over
480
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,440
time to a kind of final layer of polish
481
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:18,079
without
482
00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:20,240
any one of those changes he's making
483
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,000
really being a big win
484
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,160
this is one of those things where it's
485
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:25,279
that final
486
00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:28,079
painstaking sanding of just smoothing
487
00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:30,079
out an edge here and enhancing a detail
488
00:15:30,079 --> 00:15:30,720
there
489
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,560
and really great to see him work in that
490
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,240
style and it really did turn into
491
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,800
a stunning thing one last thing i'd say
492
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:37,759
is that
493
00:15:37,759 --> 00:15:40,079
in this particular cinematic mix jake
494
00:15:40,079 --> 00:15:42,560
wasn't afraid to lean a little bit hard
495
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,279
on the
496
00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:45,759
close mics there were close mics on each
497
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:46,480
one of
498
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,720
the live recorded instruments and he
499
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,240
actually leaned a little bit heavier
500
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:51,440
into those to give things a little bit
501
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:51,920
more of an
502
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,120
up front and maybe slightly aggressive
503
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,600
feel i guess you'd say because of the
504
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,279
suspenseful nature of this particular
505
00:15:59,279 --> 00:15:59,759
score
506
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,639
and he wasn't afraid to pan pretty wide
507
00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:03,519
on those strings
508
00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:05,680
either and it really brings out a lot of
509
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,040
beautiful detail
510
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,360
into it i hope you enjoy this one
511
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,120
definitely check it out in full length
512
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,040
over at the sonic scoop youtube channel
513
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,440
that sonicscoop.com youtube video or if
514
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,560
you're here on the youtube channel
515
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,680
already it's probably just going to be
516
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:18,079
up
517
00:16:18,079 --> 00:16:19,600
somewhere on the screen you can click on
518
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all that good stuff remember to enter
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at spitfireaudio.com big thanks also to
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making really great both creative and
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check them out over at fabfilter.com
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last but not least if you want some free
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you called the five habits of every
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want to check out that presentation
556
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get that for free over at sonicsgoop.com
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or if you want a primer on mastering you
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of course we got the full-length courses
571
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,440
that come with a money-back guarantee
572
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,039
people love them you got to check out
573
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:01,200
mixing breakthroughs now and it's 2.0
574
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:02,480
iteration and
575
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,320
mastering demystified where i tell you
576
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,080
everything that i know about mastering
577
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:07,280
to get you started
578
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,760
and mastering yourself all right thanks
579
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:10,880
again for hanging out with me this has
580
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,600
been justin clitty of sonic scoop
581
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:20,880
see you next time38326
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