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and may contain
mature subject matter.
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Viewer discretion
is advised.
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a former CIA operative,
matuBen Smith, mas,"r.
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investigates
what really crashed
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near Roswell, New Mexico,
in 1947.
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- I'm not sure I buy
that whole balloon theory.
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- Really?
- Yeah.
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Fishburne: The focus:
a mysterious journal
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found among the possessions
of Jesse Marcel,
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the first official
to arrive at the scene.
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- It was not anything
from this Earth.
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That, I'm quite sure of.
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Fishburne: A top cryptologist
believes
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it may contain coded
messages...
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- To a cryptographer,
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this indicates
a certain kind of cipher.
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Fishburne: Perhaps details
on what Marcel really saw.
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- He saw the spaceship.
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- I'm laurence Fishburne
and tonight,
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the hunt for the mysterious
journal's author continues.
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Was it a fellow officer in Jesse
Marcels tight knit group
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who knew exactly what he knew?
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Ben Smith is hot on the trail.
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Was one of these men the
author of the journal?
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Was it written
by a U.S. Army officer
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with inside information
on Roswell?
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- There are some words
and letter combinations
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I do see in agreement.
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- This man is at the nexus
of all the secrets.
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Fishburne:
And what did Jesse Marcel
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tell his own family
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years before
he ever went public?
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- He told us that they had
told him to change the story.
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Fishburne: Did an
extraterrestrial spacecraft
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crash near Roswell?
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The conclusion to
our investigation begins now.
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[dramatic music]
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪
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Former CIA investigator
Ben Smith has traveled
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to Louisiana's Gulf Coast
to visit Houma,
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the hometown of Jesse Marcel
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where he spent the last
36 years of his life.
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♪ ♪
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At ease among his own people
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in this quiet
bayou community,
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Smith believes Marcel
may have divulged details
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about the UFO crash
to family and friends.
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♪ ♪
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- There are
Mr. and Mrs. Marcel.
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- They must have liked you.
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They have smiles
on their faces.
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- I was in their book.
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She says, "You could sell
refrigerators to Eskimos,"
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because I was so persuasive in
making him talk about things.
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And she could see that
I was getting things.
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And that's him and I together.
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I have my Nicholls State
University T-shirt on, and--
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Oh, my gosh.
Such a long time ago.
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♪ ♪
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Fishburne: Linda Corley
met Marcel in 1981
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when she taped an interview
with him
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for her undergraduate
psychology course
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at Nicholls State University.
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Marcel was retired and living
with his wife, Vio.
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♪ ♪
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In 2007, she turned
her interview with Jesse
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into a book entitled
"For The Sake Of My Country."
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♪ ♪
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- I had a little
cassette-tape recorder,
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and I asked him
if it was all right.
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He said, "Sure."
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Okay. [clears throat]
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Please don't break.
Please don't break.
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- I kept asking all through
the interview,
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"Can't you tell me something
that's not in the book?"
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- [laughs]
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♪ ♪
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Fishburne: Linda is referring
to the first book
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to allege a government
cover-up at Roswell,
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called
"The Roswell Incident."
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It was written
by Charles Berlitz
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and William Moore in 1980.
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It relied heavily on the
testimony of Jesse Marcel.
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- I asked him
that a million times.
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"Can't you tell me something
that's not in the book?"
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- Yeah.
- And in the end, he did.
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♪ ♪
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Fishburne:
What Marcel told Linda
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was that his son, Jesse Jr.
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had described the debris
he'd handled inaccurately.
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Jesse Jr.,
who was 11 at the time,
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claimed he'd picked up
small support struts,
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which he called I-beams.
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- The most unusual part
of the debris that I saw
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was the I-beam fragments,
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or what I recall
as being I-beam,
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because they were very light
and very strong,
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and they had some writing
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along the inside surface
of this,
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and that was the thing
that really set this apart
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from anything
I'd ever seen before.
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♪ ♪
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- He was talking about
the symbols
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that he saw on the debris,
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and Mrs. Marcel said,
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"I think I have
Jesse Jr.'s drawing of that,"
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and he said, "Well, Jesse got
all that wrong anyway."
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- Huh.
- I had a composition book,
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and I'm like, "Well, here.
Why don't you
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draw me something?"
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The clip I want you to hear
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is of what he says
as he's drawing.
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[tape hissing]
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- He didn't seem to have doubt
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as to his memory of that.
- Right.
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- That's what he draw.
That's the original.
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- Huh.
- I said,
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"Now, will you sign it?"
And he said, "Yeah."
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I can't believe I had the
wherewithal to even say that,
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and then he signed it,
and he drew the beam,
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which you can see
is not an I-beam.
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- Yeah. It's not an I-beam.
- Yeah.
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He told me
that they were pink and purple,
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and so I wrote that,
that's my handwriting.
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- Yeah.
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- So these are some of my
beginning sketches
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from what he told me.
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- Yeah. That's something
I could never figure out.
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Are we talking about wood,
or are we talking about metal?
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- He called it wood.
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He was specific about that,
but he said it wouldn't burn.
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- How did he know
it didn't burn?
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- He tried to burn it
with a cigarette lighter.
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He said, "It felt like wood.
It looked like wood,
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"but it wouldn't burn,
so it can't be wood.
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"It has to be something
I've never seen before
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on this Earth,"
that kind of thing.
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- Uh-huh. Yeah. Hmm.
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♪ ♪
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- I asked him, "Why didn't you
save some of it?"
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- Mm-hmm.
- "Why didn't you do that?"
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I would've saved a piece of it.
- Right.
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- His choice of words
always stuck in my mind.
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"I sat on this premium
for 32 years.
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I don't want any publicity.
All I want is peace."
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He said that more than once.
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"I just want peace."
Why don't you have peace?
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He could've sat on it
for another 32 years?
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Why did he talk?
Had to have been bothering him.
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Had to have been something
he wanted to get off his chest.
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- Yeah. That's true.
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- I have three tapes
that last about four hours,
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and during that time,
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we had bonded
so close together.
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- Hmm. Yeah.
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- He says,
"You're welcome here anytime."
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Fishburne: Linda says that
when she went home,
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she couldn't stop looking at
the symbols Jesse had drawn.
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- I had studied writing
and codes and scripts
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for other things,
and I came home that night,
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and I looked up some
different ancient writings,
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and it was exactly
what he drew--
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- Mm-hmm.
- Exactly what he drew.
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Fishburne: Linda says that
what Jesse drew resembled
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a kind of shorthand
called Tironian notes
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that were first used
in Ancient Rome around 4 BC.
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She says
the symbols Jesse drew
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signify travel and flight.
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♪ ♪
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- I went back the next day.
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I was invited in cordially,
again.
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- Mm-hmm.
- And I showed him
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some of the writing.
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♪ ♪
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I mean, look. This one here,
these slashes here--
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- Mm-hmm.
- This is almost exactly
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what he drew, and there's--
- And what is Tironian?
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- There's a decipher for that.
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I went into detail about
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where this writing
could've come from.
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- Yeah.
I think I saw that, yeah.
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- And they got pretty intense
about the writing.
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I left on good terms.
"Come back anytime you want."
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- Yeah.
- And then the calls.
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He said, "Do not use
what I gave you.
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Everything is a lie."
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And the next call was, "Don't
go to the media with it."
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He was so irate on the phone.
- Okay. Yeah.
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- I can still see myself.
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"I didn't do any--
I'm not gonna do that.
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This is for school," you know?
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- Uh-huh.
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- "I'm not going
to the media with this!"
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So I never heard
from him again.
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I was crushed.
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- What do you think
caused that change?
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- Well,
I think the second visit,
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what happened
and transpired there
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is why he called
and said don't use it.
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00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:53,570
- Uh-huh.
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00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:56,600
- And the only thing that
transpired in that second visit
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00:09:56,734 --> 00:09:58,504
were photos
of the ancient writings.
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- The ancient writings,
yeah. Huh.
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00:10:01,467 --> 00:10:02,797
♪ ♪
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00:10:02,934 --> 00:10:06,074
- What if he was told
that writing means something
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00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,600
to the government or whatever,
and you shouldn't tell.
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00:10:09,734 --> 00:10:11,134
- Uh-huh.
- You know, you shouldn't
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00:10:11,266 --> 00:10:12,596
have drawn it.
- Right.
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00:10:12,734 --> 00:10:13,934
- You shouldn't have
written it, you know?
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00:10:14,066 --> 00:10:18,666
What if it was something
that was alien,
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00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,200
and he's too afraid
to let it out?
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00:10:21,333 --> 00:10:24,033
So, you know, those are
what-ifs because I don't know
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00:10:24,166 --> 00:10:26,126
what else to think
about those phone calls.
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00:10:26,266 --> 00:10:28,426
What else can I think?
216
00:10:28,567 --> 00:10:32,297
- Did he ever mention that
he was close to anyone on base,
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00:10:32,433 --> 00:10:35,733
anyone who was
especially important to him?
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00:10:35,867 --> 00:10:37,797
- He talked about Cavitt
quite a bit.
219
00:10:37,934 --> 00:10:41,074
He thought extremely
highly of Colonel Blanchard.
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00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,000
Colonel Blanchard had refused
to transfer him
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00:10:45,133 --> 00:10:46,973
three months later
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00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:51,070
and said he was more important
and needed there,
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00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,330
but somebody else
wanted him out.
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00:10:53,467 --> 00:10:55,167
- Huh.
- And he didn't care
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00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:56,570
for General Ramey.
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00:10:56,700 --> 00:11:01,100
He said General Ramey knew it
wasn't a weather balloon.
227
00:11:01,233 --> 00:11:04,333
- So do you believe
Jesse's story?
228
00:11:04,467 --> 00:11:07,727
- Yeah.
I believe Jesse believes.
229
00:11:07,867 --> 00:11:10,197
I was always a believer
that Jesse believed.
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00:11:10,333 --> 00:11:12,933
- Mm-hmm.
- Nothing stood out as phony.
231
00:11:13,066 --> 00:11:14,526
Nothing stood out as fake.
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00:11:14,667 --> 00:11:16,697
♪ ♪
233
00:11:16,834 --> 00:11:18,274
- Did you ever feel like
he had a secret
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00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:19,570
that he
wasn't sharing with you?
235
00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:22,230
- Well, he says that "I'm not
telling you everything."
236
00:11:22,367 --> 00:11:23,527
- Yeah.
- "There's still things
237
00:11:23,667 --> 00:11:25,767
I can't tell you,"
and I'm like, "Why?"
238
00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:27,430
And he says,
"For the sake of my country."
239
00:11:27,567 --> 00:11:29,127
- For the sake of his country.
- And that's why I named
240
00:11:29,266 --> 00:11:30,526
the book
"For The Sake Of My Country."
241
00:11:30,667 --> 00:11:32,167
Yeah.
- Yeah.
242
00:11:45,333 --> 00:11:47,433
♪ ♪
243
00:11:47,567 --> 00:11:48,727
Fishburne: Coming up...
244
00:11:48,867 --> 00:11:49,797
- What the [bleep]
is that thing?
245
00:11:49,934 --> 00:11:51,374
- Whoa, what is that, man?
246
00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:52,830
Fishburne: what the Pentagon
didn't want America
247
00:11:52,967 --> 00:11:55,667
to know about UFOs
but she revealed.
248
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,030
- The Pentagon had a secret
program that started in 2007.
249
00:11:59,166 --> 00:12:01,926
Fishburne: And Ben Smith gets
some news he never expected.
250
00:12:02,066 --> 00:12:05,966
- I don't see enough right now
to exclude this person
251
00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:06,970
as a candidate.
252
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:08,270
There's potential.
253
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,800
♪ ♪
254
00:12:16,767 --> 00:12:19,627
[dramatic music]
255
00:12:19,767 --> 00:12:22,367
♪ ♪
256
00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:24,230
Fishburne: Ben Smith has
just heard a taped interview
257
00:12:24,367 --> 00:12:25,467
with Jesse Marcel...
258
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,370
Fishburne: In which Marcel
says it was his duty
259
00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:33,600
to stay quiet about Roswell.
260
00:12:33,734 --> 00:12:35,974
♪ ♪
261
00:12:41,734 --> 00:12:44,404
♪ ♪
262
00:12:44,533 --> 00:12:46,473
Fishburne: Now Smith has come
to New York City
263
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,330
to better understand why
Marcel felt extreme pressure
264
00:12:49,467 --> 00:12:52,867
to keep his secret long
after he left the military.
265
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,330
♪ ♪
266
00:12:55,467 --> 00:12:56,927
- Hi, Ben.
- Hi, Leslie.
267
00:12:57,066 --> 00:12:58,996
- Come in.
- Thank you.
268
00:12:59,133 --> 00:13:00,403
Fishburne: Leslie Kean,
269
00:13:00,533 --> 00:13:02,173
author of
the bestselling book
270
00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:05,800
"UFOs: Generals, Pilots
and Government Officials
271
00:13:05,934 --> 00:13:07,274
Go on the Record,"
272
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,530
says it's risky for
members of the military
273
00:13:09,667 --> 00:13:12,427
to speak openly about UFOs.
274
00:13:12,567 --> 00:13:15,667
- For people in the military,
there is this taboo,
275
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,600
this stigma
around the topic of UFOs.
276
00:13:18,734 --> 00:13:20,634
They're afraid to talk about
it, that it might somehow
277
00:13:20,767 --> 00:13:23,427
affect their positions
and their careers.
278
00:13:23,567 --> 00:13:25,597
There's the respect
they have of their colleagues.
279
00:13:25,734 --> 00:13:27,134
They might--
somebody might think
280
00:13:27,266 --> 00:13:28,826
there's something wrong
with them.
281
00:13:28,967 --> 00:13:31,827
Those attitudes are still
there, unfortunately.
282
00:13:31,967 --> 00:13:33,597
♪ ♪
283
00:13:33,734 --> 00:13:34,934
- It sounds like
you're convinced
284
00:13:35,066 --> 00:13:37,126
there's a taboo about UFOs.
285
00:13:37,266 --> 00:13:40,626
- That stigma is a big factor
for sort of the individual
286
00:13:40,767 --> 00:13:42,667
out there who has a sighting.
287
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,600
- Mm-hmm.
- And it's also a big factor
288
00:13:44,734 --> 00:13:47,474
as to why there isn't
more research being done
289
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:48,870
by the scientific community
290
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,270
because there's no money
to fund projects
291
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,530
that involve something
that's taboo, basically.
292
00:13:55,667 --> 00:13:56,827
- Yeah.
293
00:13:56,967 --> 00:13:58,527
- But I think it's gotten
a lot better.
294
00:13:58,667 --> 00:14:02,997
I think the December 17th
"New York Times" story--2017--
295
00:14:03,133 --> 00:14:05,203
really shifted things.
296
00:14:05,333 --> 00:14:09,103
Fishburne: In December 2017,
Leslie Kean broke the story
297
00:14:09,233 --> 00:14:11,603
that the Pentagon was running
a secret program
298
00:14:11,734 --> 00:14:15,034
to investigate UFOs,
although officially,
299
00:14:15,166 --> 00:14:17,466
the military
claimed all UFO research
300
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,370
had stopped in the 1960s.
301
00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:24,330
- The Pentagon had a secret
program that started in 2007,
302
00:14:24,467 --> 00:14:26,197
but sources have told me
303
00:14:26,333 --> 00:14:30,333
that there were programs
before that.
304
00:14:30,467 --> 00:14:32,997
Fishburne: Kean uncovered
not only a top-secret program
305
00:14:33,133 --> 00:14:35,573
but actual proof
that military pilots
306
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:39,430
reported sightings of UFOs
more than once.
307
00:14:39,567 --> 00:14:40,697
- The online version
of the story,
308
00:14:40,834 --> 00:14:42,534
which is the one
that most people read,
309
00:14:42,667 --> 00:14:46,167
included two official
Department of Defense
310
00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:49,630
videos taken of objects--
unidentified objects--
311
00:14:49,767 --> 00:14:52,467
and they were cleared
for public release.
312
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,530
- This is a [bleep] drone,
bro.
313
00:14:55,667 --> 00:14:57,967
- There's a whole fleet of
them. Look on the SA.
314
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:00,600
- Those videos were
spectacular,
315
00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:02,904
and they drew a lot
of attention to the article,
316
00:15:03,033 --> 00:15:05,733
and as far as I'm aware,
this is the first time
317
00:15:05,867 --> 00:15:10,227
the actual government videos
have been released of UFOs.
318
00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:17,600
- Nickel six 110, roger.
- Oh! Got it! Woo-hoo!
319
00:15:17,734 --> 00:15:18,804
Fishburne: But Kean says that
320
00:15:18,934 --> 00:15:20,504
before the videos
were leaked,
321
00:15:20,633 --> 00:15:22,273
the pilots felt
intense pressure
322
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,130
not to reveal
what they had witnessed.
323
00:15:25,266 --> 00:15:26,466
- These are patriots.
324
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:27,970
These are people
who are responsible
325
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,330
for the lives
of American citizens,
326
00:15:30,467 --> 00:15:33,727
highly trained,
highly credible.
327
00:15:33,867 --> 00:15:35,097
When they see something,
328
00:15:35,233 --> 00:15:36,603
they're not supposed
to talk about it.
329
00:15:36,734 --> 00:15:38,774
There's nowhere for them
to report it.
330
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:41,700
It just--for me,
it borders on just
331
00:15:41,834 --> 00:15:44,304
a kind of irrationality
and disrespect.
332
00:15:44,433 --> 00:15:45,803
They struggle with this,
333
00:15:45,934 --> 00:15:47,504
and they feel that
their own government
334
00:15:47,633 --> 00:15:48,773
doesn't take them seriously.
335
00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:49,930
That's the problem.
336
00:15:50,066 --> 00:15:52,796
- Look at that thing, dude.
337
00:15:52,934 --> 00:15:54,434
Fishburne:
Ben Smith sees similarities
338
00:15:54,567 --> 00:15:56,097
between these events
339
00:15:56,233 --> 00:15:57,773
and what
Jesse Marcel's family
340
00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:01,700
says happened to him in 1947.
341
00:16:01,834 --> 00:16:04,904
- Jesse Marcel Sr.
told his grandchildren
342
00:16:05,033 --> 00:16:07,703
that, Fort Worth, when it was
the second press release
343
00:16:07,834 --> 00:16:11,634
with General Ramey, Jesse
was paraded into the room
344
00:16:11,767 --> 00:16:14,097
because he was the first
individual on the scene,
345
00:16:14,233 --> 00:16:17,503
and he was in the flying
saucer report the day before,
346
00:16:17,633 --> 00:16:19,173
and they put out this debris,
347
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:20,870
and Jesse told
his grandchildren
348
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,000
that that was not the debris
that he recovered.
349
00:16:23,133 --> 00:16:25,373
- But he had to pretend it was
during the press conference?
350
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,700
- He was told to shut his mouth
351
00:16:26,834 --> 00:16:28,174
and to just play along.
352
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:29,330
That was his claim.
353
00:16:29,467 --> 00:16:30,827
- Back in the day,
that was so common
354
00:16:30,967 --> 00:16:34,327
that these high-level
military people would,
355
00:16:34,467 --> 00:16:36,627
you know, know a lot
but feel they couldn't say it,
356
00:16:36,767 --> 00:16:38,797
and then they'd just go to
their graves, and that's it.
357
00:16:38,934 --> 00:16:40,234
- Yeah.
358
00:16:40,367 --> 00:16:42,197
- I have a lot of respect
for the Marcels
359
00:16:42,333 --> 00:16:43,973
and the Roswell witnesses,
absolutely.
360
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:46,970
When you see them talking
or you hear them,
361
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:48,930
they are as convincing
as anything,
362
00:16:49,066 --> 00:16:52,496
and I have no doubt
that they believe 100%
363
00:16:52,633 --> 00:16:53,503
in what they're saying.
364
00:16:53,633 --> 00:16:55,673
They're not lying or anything.
365
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,970
They had an experience.
They found something.
366
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:01,630
They believe that it is
what they say it is,
367
00:17:01,767 --> 00:17:03,627
and they are
extremely convincing.
368
00:17:03,767 --> 00:17:05,297
You absolutely have
to take it seriously,
369
00:17:05,433 --> 00:17:06,733
and I just wish
370
00:17:06,867 --> 00:17:10,597
there was more information
to prove them right.
371
00:17:10,734 --> 00:17:13,134
♪ ♪
372
00:17:13,266 --> 00:17:15,226
Fishburne: That proof could
lie hidden in the journal
373
00:17:15,367 --> 00:17:19,927
that Jesse Marcel kept among
his most prized possessions.
374
00:17:20,066 --> 00:17:21,926
So far, Smith's investigation
has proven
375
00:17:22,066 --> 00:17:23,966
that the journal
is authentic,
376
00:17:24,100 --> 00:17:26,400
dates from the time
of the Roswell incident,
377
00:17:26,533 --> 00:17:29,503
and that Marcel
is not its author.
378
00:17:29,633 --> 00:17:31,803
♪ ♪
379
00:17:31,934 --> 00:17:34,774
Smith wants to find out
who wrote the journal,
380
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:36,770
why and what it means.
381
00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:38,700
♪ ♪
382
00:17:38,834 --> 00:17:41,304
- Without intuition to find
the information,
383
00:17:41,433 --> 00:17:44,433
you're useless in journalism
or intelligence, right?
384
00:17:44,567 --> 00:17:45,967
So you gotta follow your gut
'cause that's where
385
00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:46,970
you find the best gold.
386
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:48,100
If it was easy to find,
387
00:17:48,233 --> 00:17:49,273
someone would've
found it by now.
388
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,630
- Right.
389
00:17:50,767 --> 00:17:52,197
Fishburne:
To plot his next steps,
390
00:17:52,333 --> 00:17:54,203
Smith meets
with Joe Pappalardo,
391
00:17:54,333 --> 00:17:56,903
a veteran aviation journalist
with a deep understanding
392
00:17:57,033 --> 00:18:00,603
of American military history
and the Roswell story.
393
00:18:02,934 --> 00:18:08,734
- So Craig, the cryptographer,
has some interesting insights
394
00:18:08,867 --> 00:18:10,297
that I did not pick up on,
395
00:18:10,433 --> 00:18:13,403
and right away, actually,
he picked up on some things
396
00:18:13,533 --> 00:18:15,603
that could actually
indicate code.
397
00:18:15,734 --> 00:18:17,334
Craig.
- Oh, hi.
398
00:18:17,467 --> 00:18:18,527
You must be Ben.
- That's right.
399
00:18:18,667 --> 00:18:20,267
- Good to meet you.
- You, too.
400
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:21,970
Fishburne: When Smith took
the journal to Craig Bauer,
401
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,030
one of the nation's
top code breakers,
402
00:18:24,166 --> 00:18:27,066
Bauer thought it could be
written in a home-brew code,
403
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,070
a pattern of letters or words
invented by the writer.
404
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,000
- To create something
just between friends,
405
00:18:33,133 --> 00:18:37,633
it's not that hard to make it
really hard to break.
406
00:18:37,767 --> 00:18:42,467
- This potential home-brew code
started just after Roswell.
407
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,770
In August 1947, we get this
weird kind of writing,
408
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:48,130
so whatever it is,
409
00:18:48,266 --> 00:18:50,796
it's correlated
to that strange date.
410
00:18:50,934 --> 00:18:52,774
Now, we still don't have
the author,
411
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:54,470
so we can't quite tell
what it is.
412
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:55,970
- I don't know.
Zodiac was like that,
413
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:57,330
and they broke that code,
didn't they?
414
00:18:57,467 --> 00:18:58,597
As long as it says something,
415
00:18:58,734 --> 00:19:00,934
you should be able
to be break it.
416
00:19:01,066 --> 00:19:03,326
- If someone in the 509th
wrote the journal,
417
00:19:03,467 --> 00:19:04,867
and we can identify who,
418
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,070
it might lead us
to other documents
419
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,670
that allow us
to interpret its meaning,
420
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,700
sort of like a broken locket
where you have one half
421
00:19:11,834 --> 00:19:13,004
and I have the other.
422
00:19:13,133 --> 00:19:15,373
We put them together,
and it's a treasure map.
423
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:18,330
- So who, in your estimation,
would be someone
424
00:19:18,467 --> 00:19:20,267
that we'd be interested
in hearing from at the time
425
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,170
who would give him
this journal?
426
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:26,700
- Well, as I understand, the
Roswell Army Air Force Base
427
00:19:26,834 --> 00:19:29,774
had almost 8,000 personnel
in 1947.
428
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:31,430
It's a huge base.
429
00:19:31,567 --> 00:19:32,867
But I think
it would be helpful
430
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,070
to focus my search
on the 509th group
431
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,270
and then his
counterintelligence group.
432
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,430
- That would be the kind
of person
433
00:19:39,567 --> 00:19:40,797
that would have information
434
00:19:40,934 --> 00:19:42,134
that would be
worth safeguarding,
435
00:19:42,266 --> 00:19:43,466
and they give it
to the point man
436
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,070
for the whole
Roswell incident.
437
00:19:46,233 --> 00:19:47,533
♪ ♪
438
00:19:47,667 --> 00:19:49,097
Fishburne: As the
intelligence officer
439
00:19:49,233 --> 00:19:51,333
in Roswell,
Marcel was trusted
440
00:19:51,467 --> 00:19:54,567
with the military's
most protected secrets,
441
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:56,300
and according
to his grandson,
442
00:19:56,433 --> 00:19:59,403
he stayed silent
about what he saw in 1947
443
00:19:59,533 --> 00:20:01,403
to protect his family.
444
00:20:01,533 --> 00:20:02,873
♪ ♪
445
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,870
- When my grandfather started
talking about his experience
446
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,670
with the Roswell UFO,
447
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,600
he was careful about
what he told us.
448
00:20:09,734 --> 00:20:11,074
He didn't want
to tell us something
449
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,830
that we could tell somebody
that might lead us
450
00:20:12,967 --> 00:20:16,167
into a position where
we could've felt threatened.
451
00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:17,430
♪ ♪
452
00:20:17,567 --> 00:20:18,797
Fishburne:
Part of Marcel's job
453
00:20:18,934 --> 00:20:20,604
was to share
valuable intelligence
454
00:20:20,734 --> 00:20:22,734
with an inner circle
of officers
455
00:20:22,867 --> 00:20:25,097
at the 509th bomber group.
456
00:20:25,233 --> 00:20:27,203
Smith thinks whoever wrote
the journal might have been
457
00:20:27,333 --> 00:20:29,903
sharing something valuable
with Marcel.
458
00:20:30,033 --> 00:20:31,503
♪ ♪
459
00:20:31,633 --> 00:20:34,873
- I'm hoping I can get more
handwriting samples
460
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,770
of other people
in the 509th group
461
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:40,100
to see if this might
have been passed to him
462
00:20:40,233 --> 00:20:42,433
by somebody else
within the bomber group.
463
00:20:42,567 --> 00:20:44,167
- I would suggest if they're in
the 509th
464
00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:45,500
and if they were officers,
465
00:20:45,633 --> 00:20:47,533
they may have actually served
in World War II.
466
00:20:47,667 --> 00:20:50,997
They handwrote a lot of
after-action reports.
467
00:20:51,133 --> 00:20:53,373
If they were officers, there
may be handwriting samples
468
00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:57,400
that are in old World War II
bombing records and archives,
469
00:20:57,533 --> 00:20:59,333
where they flew in from,
the bombing assessments.
470
00:20:59,467 --> 00:21:00,797
There's a lot of information.
471
00:21:00,934 --> 00:21:02,104
You might actually hit
a little trove there.
472
00:21:02,233 --> 00:21:03,503
You might not,
473
00:21:03,633 --> 00:21:04,933
but, hey, at least
it's a rock to kick over.
474
00:21:05,066 --> 00:21:06,266
- Yeah.
That's an interesting point.
475
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,430
I hadn't considered that.
476
00:21:07,567 --> 00:21:09,927
- Cracking this part
of your mystery
477
00:21:10,066 --> 00:21:11,396
is only one good search away.
478
00:21:11,533 --> 00:21:14,503
If you find out who through
a handwriting analysis,
479
00:21:14,633 --> 00:21:15,733
then you could find out
480
00:21:15,867 --> 00:21:17,567
a little bit
more of the motive why.
481
00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:21,830
♪ ♪
482
00:21:21,967 --> 00:21:23,897
Fishburne: Coming up,
Smith uncovers
483
00:21:24,033 --> 00:21:25,973
the circle of officers
in the 509th
484
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:28,470
who could've
shared Marcel's secret,
485
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:29,900
but will one of them
486
00:21:30,033 --> 00:21:32,173
match the handwriting
in the journal?
487
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:37,900
♪ ♪
488
00:21:41,567 --> 00:21:44,427
matic music]
489
00:21:44,567 --> 00:21:49,997
♪ ♪
490
00:21:50,133 --> 00:21:52,103
- I'm on my way to meet
Jennifer Naso,
491
00:21:52,233 --> 00:21:53,903
the handwriting expert.
492
00:21:54,033 --> 00:21:56,533
I have with me a number
of handwriting samples
493
00:21:56,667 --> 00:21:59,867
belonging to the people
closest to Jesse Marcel
494
00:22:00,066 --> 00:22:02,166
during the time
of the Roswell incident.
495
00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:03,800
♪ ♪
496
00:22:03,934 --> 00:22:05,934
Fishburne: Ben Smith has been
researching Jesse Marcel's
497
00:22:06,066 --> 00:22:08,266
fellow officers in the 509th.
498
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,700
He's gotten writing samples
for six individuals,
499
00:22:10,834 --> 00:22:13,734
an inner circle that
must have known details
500
00:22:13,867 --> 00:22:16,597
about what
really crashed at Roswell.
501
00:22:16,734 --> 00:22:17,974
♪ ♪
502
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:20,070
- If it didn't belong to Jesse
and he kept it
503
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,800
in his
most prized possessions,
504
00:22:21,934 --> 00:22:24,274
it had to have belonged
to somebody important to him.
505
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,570
♪ ♪
506
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:26,930
Fishburne:
Now the question is,
507
00:22:27,066 --> 00:22:29,366
does anybody's
writing match the journal?
508
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:31,300
♪ ♪
509
00:22:31,433 --> 00:22:32,703
- Hey. Come on in.
510
00:22:32,834 --> 00:22:34,774
- I'm back with more work
for you.
511
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:36,200
- Tell me what you have.
512
00:22:36,333 --> 00:22:40,633
- I took the journal
to a code breaking expert.
513
00:22:40,767 --> 00:22:42,267
First of all, he took a look
at the journal,
514
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,400
and to his eyes, a few things
immediately popped up
515
00:22:45,533 --> 00:22:48,903
that suggested there might be
some kind of code.
516
00:22:49,033 --> 00:22:50,233
Now, he ran the numbers
517
00:22:50,367 --> 00:22:54,067
and was not able to find
any coherent message.
518
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,930
- That does not correspond
to a letter.
519
00:22:56,066 --> 00:23:00,126
- So his next best guess
was that maybe there was
520
00:23:00,266 --> 00:23:04,996
some kind of encryption system
that only the author knew of.
521
00:23:05,133 --> 00:23:08,573
So that gets back to the
question, well, who wrote it?
522
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:11,230
- Who is the author?
- Who is the author?
523
00:23:11,367 --> 00:23:14,597
So I have brought a number
of handwriting samples...
524
00:23:14,734 --> 00:23:17,674
- Oh.
- From key individuals
525
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,800
at the Roswell Army
Air Force Base.
526
00:23:20,934 --> 00:23:24,674
Let me start
with Colonel Blanchard,
527
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,330
who was Jesse Marcel's
direct commanding officer
528
00:23:28,467 --> 00:23:32,427
and the head
of the 509th bomber group.
529
00:23:32,567 --> 00:23:35,667
Fishburne: In 1947, Colonel
William "Butch" Blanchard
530
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,400
was commander of the 509th
bomber group
531
00:23:38,533 --> 00:23:40,273
based at Roswell.
532
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,500
A highly decorated
World War II hero
533
00:23:42,633 --> 00:23:46,203
who had helped plan the Enola
Gay's bombing of Hiroshima,
534
00:23:46,333 --> 00:23:47,603
Blanchard was in charge
535
00:23:47,734 --> 00:23:50,434
of America's
only nuclear attack force.
536
00:23:50,567 --> 00:23:52,497
It was a job in which
he would certainly know
537
00:23:52,633 --> 00:23:54,373
about any
top-secret operation
538
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,970
involving his air base.
539
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,170
The officer
he might have been closest to
540
00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:01,230
was Jesse Marcel.
541
00:24:01,367 --> 00:24:02,997
The Blanchards
and the Marcels
542
00:24:03,133 --> 00:24:04,473
were regular bridge partners.
543
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,670
♪ ♪
544
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,700
- We have Walter Haut,
the press corps officer
545
00:24:11,834 --> 00:24:13,874
who organized
the press releases
546
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,900
and wrote the infamous
flying-saucer press release.
547
00:24:18,033 --> 00:24:20,173
Fishburne: As the base
public information officer,
548
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,830
Lieutenant Walter Haut
was ordered by Blanchard
549
00:24:22,967 --> 00:24:24,727
to draft that famous
press release
550
00:24:24,867 --> 00:24:28,167
that a flying disc
had been recovered.
551
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:30,670
In his later years,
Haut came forward to say
552
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,600
he believed Marcel had been
telling the truth
553
00:24:33,734 --> 00:24:35,204
and went so far as to say
554
00:24:35,333 --> 00:24:38,073
that he himself had glimpsed
bodies of aliens.
555
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,900
♪ ♪
556
00:24:41,033 --> 00:24:44,233
- We have Bob Shirkey.
557
00:24:44,367 --> 00:24:45,697
Fishburne:
Lieutenant Robert Shirkey
558
00:24:45,834 --> 00:24:47,704
was assistant
group operations officer
559
00:24:47,834 --> 00:24:49,504
for the 509th.
560
00:24:49,633 --> 00:24:51,873
If the debris
was extraterrestrial,
561
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,130
Shirkey would've
been in charge
562
00:24:53,266 --> 00:24:54,626
of arranging its transport
563
00:24:54,767 --> 00:24:57,127
to the Army's top-secret
research facility,
564
00:24:57,266 --> 00:24:59,526
Wright-Patterson.
565
00:24:59,667 --> 00:25:02,427
After retiring from
the military, Shirkey later
566
00:25:02,567 --> 00:25:06,567
claimed that Jesse Marcel
was telling the truth.
567
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:08,930
- And over here
we have Edwin Easley.
568
00:25:09,066 --> 00:25:11,696
Edwin Easley
was the provost marshal
569
00:25:11,834 --> 00:25:14,104
at the 509th bomber group.
570
00:25:14,233 --> 00:25:15,503
Fishburne: Major Edwin Easley
571
00:25:15,633 --> 00:25:17,273
was in charge
of base security.
572
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,970
He would've been responsible
for safeguarding the debris
573
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:21,400
and controlling
which personnel
574
00:25:21,533 --> 00:25:22,903
had access to it.
575
00:25:23,033 --> 00:25:25,573
In this capacity,
it's not unreasonable
576
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,170
to assume he knew
what the crates contained.
577
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:30,200
♪ ♪
578
00:25:30,333 --> 00:25:32,503
- He would've been responsible
for organizing
579
00:25:32,633 --> 00:25:34,303
the cleanup effort
to pull in,
580
00:25:34,433 --> 00:25:36,073
to collect the debris.
581
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,230
We also have Patrick Saunders.
582
00:25:40,367 --> 00:25:44,627
Patrick Saunders
was the office administrator
583
00:25:44,767 --> 00:25:46,327
for Colonel Blanchard,
584
00:25:46,467 --> 00:25:49,427
so he would've been involved
in all the record keeping
585
00:25:49,567 --> 00:25:50,997
and issuing the orders.
586
00:25:51,133 --> 00:25:53,003
♪ ♪
587
00:25:53,133 --> 00:25:54,303
Fishburne: Patrick Saunders
588
00:25:54,433 --> 00:25:56,203
was Colonel Blanchard's
top deputy.
589
00:25:56,333 --> 00:25:58,173
He had flown
37 combat missions
590
00:25:58,300 --> 00:25:59,670
in World War II
591
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,470
and had just as many medals
as his boss.
592
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,570
As Colonel Blanchard's
number two,
593
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:06,170
he would've been in the room
594
00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:08,800
when Jesse Marcel returned
from the debris field
595
00:26:08,934 --> 00:26:13,134
and debriefed the colonel.
596
00:26:13,266 --> 00:26:15,726
- If there's anybody at
the 509th bomber group
597
00:26:15,867 --> 00:26:18,867
who knows everything, it's
this guy, Patrick Saunders.
598
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,330
So if this handwriting
matched,
599
00:26:21,467 --> 00:26:23,167
it would mean everything
to the journal
600
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:27,970
because here is a man who had
access to all kinds of secrets
601
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:31,800
who may have wanted to confide
something in Jesse Marcel.
602
00:26:31,934 --> 00:26:37,304
- Okay, so we'll compare
these writings to the journal.
603
00:26:37,433 --> 00:26:39,373
So what I notice
right off the bat
604
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:40,930
with the Blanchard signature,
605
00:26:41,066 --> 00:26:43,726
that's all the writing
that we have, correct?
606
00:26:43,867 --> 00:26:45,327
- Right.
607
00:26:45,467 --> 00:26:48,797
- Just having the one signature
to compare to a extended body
608
00:26:48,934 --> 00:26:53,674
of text writing poses a big
limitation to the examination.
609
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,870
From what I see in the Patrick
Saunders writing...
610
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,100
- Mm-hmm.
- While there's a bit more
611
00:27:00,233 --> 00:27:01,373
than just one signature,
612
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:03,930
it's really just
the one sentence,
613
00:27:04,066 --> 00:27:05,726
and so the limitation
is still
614
00:27:05,867 --> 00:27:08,797
the lack of quantity
of known writing.
615
00:27:08,934 --> 00:27:11,434
- Right. Right.
- It's a bit of a blurry copy,
616
00:27:11,567 --> 00:27:14,567
and so it's hard to tell
the pen movements,
617
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:16,930
and some of the fine
and subtle features
618
00:27:17,066 --> 00:27:18,566
of the formations
of the letters
619
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:22,070
might be lost in the image
quality of that copy.
620
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,200
Looking at
the Walter Haut handwriting
621
00:27:24,333 --> 00:27:25,773
and the Bob Shirkey writing,
622
00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:30,130
this is a more extended
sample of writing,
623
00:27:30,266 --> 00:27:32,396
so there's going to be
a lot more information,
624
00:27:32,533 --> 00:27:33,973
almost characteristics
625
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,500
that I'm going to be able
to compare to the journal.
626
00:27:36,633 --> 00:27:40,073
- Even if you can provide any,
even just the slightest
627
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,200
new piece of information
on one or the other,
628
00:27:43,333 --> 00:27:47,703
it could help me eliminate
one person from the group
629
00:27:47,834 --> 00:27:49,904
closest to Jesse Marcel.
And if I have to,
630
00:27:50,033 --> 00:27:51,803
I may have to
expand the search
631
00:27:51,934 --> 00:27:53,204
and move out from there
632
00:27:53,333 --> 00:27:57,003
to identify who could've
given him this journal.
633
00:27:57,133 --> 00:27:58,533
Fishburne: Smith will leave
the journal,
634
00:27:58,667 --> 00:28:00,697
which was so precious
to Jesse Marcel,
635
00:28:00,834 --> 00:28:04,504
in Naso's hands, hoping
she can uncover its author.
636
00:28:04,633 --> 00:28:07,933
♪ ♪
637
00:28:08,066 --> 00:28:12,126
Coming up, the investigation
returns to Marcel's hometown.
638
00:28:12,266 --> 00:28:15,366
What did he tell his family
and no one else?
639
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:17,130
- He said, "There are things
640
00:28:17,266 --> 00:28:20,226
that this world
is not ready for."
641
00:28:20,367 --> 00:28:24,467
♪ ♪
642
00:28:27,867 --> 00:28:30,727
[dramatic music]
643
00:28:30,867 --> 00:28:37,827
♪ ♪
644
00:28:40,834 --> 00:28:42,074
Fishburne: As the search
645
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,630
for the journal's author
escalates,
646
00:28:43,767 --> 00:28:46,027
Ben Smith returns
to Jesse Marcel's hometown
647
00:28:46,166 --> 00:28:48,426
of Houma, Louisiana.
648
00:28:48,567 --> 00:28:50,327
Marcel's granddaughter,
Denice,
649
00:28:50,467 --> 00:28:53,567
has convinced the extended
Marcel family to divulge
650
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:55,970
some of the strange things
Jesse told them.
651
00:28:58,033 --> 00:29:01,433
- So how is everyone related
to Jesse Marcel?
652
00:29:01,567 --> 00:29:05,467
- He was my
brother-in-law's uncle.
653
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,000
- Okay.
- But I always called him
654
00:29:08,133 --> 00:29:11,933
Uncle Jesse.
- You know, we're all cousins.
655
00:29:12,066 --> 00:29:13,496
- Yeah.
[laughter]
656
00:29:13,633 --> 00:29:17,133
- My grandmother and Jesse
were brother and sister.
657
00:29:17,266 --> 00:29:18,596
- Oh, wow.
- Mm-hmm.
658
00:29:18,734 --> 00:29:21,674
- Okay, so do you remember
speaking to him a lot?
659
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,370
- Yes.
- Yeah.
660
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:27,200
- We were very close. We lived
next door to him for 10 years.
661
00:29:27,333 --> 00:29:29,803
I went over there a lot.
662
00:29:29,934 --> 00:29:31,804
Fishburne: Smith wants
to know what they know
663
00:29:31,934 --> 00:29:34,604
from the lips
of Marcel himself.
664
00:29:34,734 --> 00:29:37,404
Their memories seem clear.
665
00:29:37,533 --> 00:29:38,773
- Wallace, how old were you
666
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:41,100
when Jesse
shared his story with you?
667
00:29:41,233 --> 00:29:43,533
- I was a teenager.
- You were a teenager?
668
00:29:43,667 --> 00:29:46,427
- Uh-huh. I want to say
that it was in 1957.
669
00:29:46,567 --> 00:29:50,027
- In 1957,
just 10 years after Roswell.
670
00:29:50,166 --> 00:29:52,066
- Yeah.
- Okay.
671
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,770
- I was 12, 13 years old
or something like that.
672
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:56,100
- Yeah. Okay.
673
00:29:56,233 --> 00:29:58,773
- He told me, "Don't believe
everything
674
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:02,700
the government tells you,"
and he started telling me
675
00:30:02,834 --> 00:30:05,674
the story
about the crash in Roswell
676
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:11,430
and that they forced him
to lie about it.
677
00:30:11,567 --> 00:30:13,267
Fishburne: This means
that two decades
678
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,970
before he told the world
679
00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:17,730
an extraterrestrial
spacecraft had crashed,
680
00:30:17,867 --> 00:30:21,467
Marcel told the same story
with the same details
681
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,600
to the people he trusted.
682
00:30:23,734 --> 00:30:25,274
- What details
did he describe?
683
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,430
Did he mention
a UFO crash? Did he--
684
00:30:28,567 --> 00:30:30,367
- He did tell me
a UFO crashed.
685
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:32,000
- Okay.
- He was telling me
686
00:30:32,133 --> 00:30:35,073
about what it looked like.
687
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,130
I put two and two
together and figured,
688
00:30:37,266 --> 00:30:38,726
I think he's telling me
689
00:30:38,867 --> 00:30:41,327
that we've got people
from outer space coming here.
690
00:30:41,467 --> 00:30:43,767
- Okay, and what was
your reaction then?
691
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:45,330
What did you think?
692
00:30:45,467 --> 00:30:47,097
- Looking up
at the sky at night.
693
00:30:47,233 --> 00:30:48,603
[laughter]
694
00:30:48,734 --> 00:30:50,104
- Did you believe him?
695
00:30:50,233 --> 00:30:51,703
- Of course I believed him.
- Yeah.
696
00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:53,074
- 'Cause I don't think
Uncle Jesse
697
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,400
would've lied to anybody.
- Right.
698
00:30:55,533 --> 00:30:57,603
- He wasn't that type of man.
699
00:30:57,734 --> 00:31:00,074
- Wallace remembers
talking to Jesse.
700
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,570
I don't remember
talking to him.
701
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,070
- Okay.
- But Jesse told my dad
702
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,170
stories about
the Roswell incident.
703
00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:10,000
Fishburne: And those stories
went further
704
00:31:10,133 --> 00:31:13,973
than anything Jesse Marcel
ever said in public.
705
00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:16,170
- The thing that interested me
the most was
706
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:20,270
that Jesse
drew a picture of an alien.
707
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,000
- Jesse drew a picture
of an alien?
708
00:31:22,133 --> 00:31:25,003
- Yeah. He hand-drew a picture
of an alien.
709
00:31:25,133 --> 00:31:28,173
- Huh.
- Yeah.
710
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:34,030
- My dad lost that picture,
but later on in life, he wrote,
711
00:31:34,166 --> 00:31:38,996
"What the picture looks like
that Jesse drew for me."
712
00:31:39,133 --> 00:31:43,933
♪ ♪
713
00:31:44,066 --> 00:31:45,926
- It looked like the picture
that Jesse drew.
714
00:31:46,066 --> 00:31:47,296
- Yeah.
715
00:31:47,433 --> 00:31:49,033
- That's the first time
I'm hearing any stories
716
00:31:49,166 --> 00:31:53,296
about Jesse himself drawing
or referencing an alien.
717
00:31:53,433 --> 00:31:55,433
- I don't remember
my dad ever saying
718
00:31:55,567 --> 00:31:58,667
that Jesse saw an alien.
- Okay.
719
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,170
- Maybe somebody
told him about this.
720
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:05,200
- I--so, Wallace, do you think
721
00:32:05,333 --> 00:32:09,333
that extraterrestrials
crashed in 1947?
722
00:32:09,467 --> 00:32:10,527
- Yeah.
723
00:32:10,667 --> 00:32:14,067
- Okay.
724
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,000
Did Jesse ever tell you, June,
725
00:32:16,133 --> 00:32:18,273
about his experience
at Roswell?
726
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,900
- Yes.
- He did?
727
00:32:20,033 --> 00:32:23,333
- He did. I think probably '74
to '76, somewhere in there.
728
00:32:23,467 --> 00:32:24,527
- Okay.
729
00:32:24,667 --> 00:32:26,997
- He started talking
to me about it.
730
00:32:27,133 --> 00:32:28,803
- Mm-hmm.
- Basically what
731
00:32:28,934 --> 00:32:30,334
they're telling you, too.
732
00:32:30,467 --> 00:32:31,497
He found wreckage.
733
00:32:31,633 --> 00:32:33,903
He said
it was not of this world.
734
00:32:34,033 --> 00:32:35,903
- Mm-hmm.
- He described the metal,
735
00:32:36,033 --> 00:32:38,233
saying that you could
crumble it up in your hand,
736
00:32:38,367 --> 00:32:42,967
but it would automatically go
right back like it had memory.
737
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:44,900
- Mm-hmm. Okay.
He used the word memory?
738
00:32:45,033 --> 00:32:46,233
- Mm-hmm.
- Okay.
739
00:32:46,367 --> 00:32:49,227
- And my daughter,
who was 10 at the time,
740
00:32:49,367 --> 00:32:51,867
approached him and asked him,
741
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,500
"Uncle Jesse,
were there any bodies?"
742
00:32:55,633 --> 00:32:57,673
And he looked at her,
743
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,600
and she says his eyes kind of
glazed over, and he said,
744
00:33:01,734 --> 00:33:05,904
"There are things that
this world is not ready for."
745
00:33:06,033 --> 00:33:07,433
- That's what he told
your daughter?
746
00:33:07,567 --> 00:33:09,427
"There are things this world
is not ready for."
747
00:33:09,567 --> 00:33:11,267
- Right.
- Yeah.
748
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:12,600
Fishburne:
In front of family members,
749
00:33:12,734 --> 00:33:14,134
Jesse displayed emotions
750
00:33:14,266 --> 00:33:17,426
he kept hidden
from the outside world.
751
00:33:17,567 --> 00:33:21,227
- He seemed angry at times
about the government.
752
00:33:21,367 --> 00:33:27,897
He told us that they had
told him to change the story
753
00:33:28,033 --> 00:33:29,773
and that it was
not UFO wreckage.
754
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:32,270
It was a weather balloon.
755
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,930
I think it bothered him a lot,
756
00:33:35,066 --> 00:33:39,226
you know, that he was told
to shut up about it.
757
00:33:39,367 --> 00:33:44,267
It was a very notable event
in American history,
758
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,730
and he couldn't talk about it.
759
00:33:45,867 --> 00:33:47,597
- Right.
- You know, and it was him
760
00:33:47,734 --> 00:33:50,634
that found it,
you know, and then had to lie.
761
00:33:50,767 --> 00:33:51,597
- Right.
- You know,
762
00:33:51,734 --> 00:33:54,074
so that tore him up.
763
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,100
- Right.
- It really did.
764
00:33:57,233 --> 00:34:01,673
I think he needed
to express himself about it,
765
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,970
so back in '78, '79, he got
sort of emboldened about it
766
00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:09,930
and decided
he was going to talk.
767
00:34:10,066 --> 00:34:12,896
- Yeah, but you heard
all of these stories
768
00:34:13,033 --> 00:34:15,173
before
there was any big media...
769
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,100
- Absolutely.
- Sensation about the story.
770
00:34:18,233 --> 00:34:19,833
- Absolutely.
He was being open
771
00:34:19,967 --> 00:34:22,427
with family about it.
772
00:34:22,567 --> 00:34:25,167
- My family members
were aware of that.
773
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:28,670
It really upset him a lot
that people thought
774
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,300
that he was making it up,
you know?
775
00:34:30,433 --> 00:34:31,673
- Yeah.
- He had to kind of deal
776
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,770
with some ridicule,
and that kind of--
777
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:37,200
- Well, I know it wasn't
from our family
778
00:34:37,333 --> 00:34:38,903
that he got that from.
- Right.
779
00:34:39,033 --> 00:34:42,373
- Outsiders would ridicule him
and call him Crazy Jesse
780
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:43,870
because --
- Oh, really?
781
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,530
- Because of when they
started hearing about Roswell.
782
00:34:48,667 --> 00:34:51,497
- That must be hard for
an intelligence officer,
783
00:34:51,633 --> 00:34:55,803
a decorated veteran
to be ridiculed
784
00:34:55,934 --> 00:34:58,634
by his neighbors
and his community.
785
00:34:58,767 --> 00:34:59,827
- Yeah.
- That's--
786
00:34:59,967 --> 00:35:02,667
- I think that would've been
hard for him.
787
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:03,970
- Well, all the reports
have been lost.
788
00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:05,800
All of the original files
have been lost,
789
00:35:05,934 --> 00:35:10,234
so at this point in time,
it really is Jesse's word
790
00:35:10,367 --> 00:35:13,767
against the government's
word, right?
791
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:17,030
One part of my investigation,
and it's just a part,
792
00:35:17,166 --> 00:35:22,426
is to see can we find any proof
anywhere that this happened?
793
00:35:22,567 --> 00:35:28,697
- Yeah.
- June, did Jesse ever hint
794
00:35:28,834 --> 00:35:32,934
that he might have something
more, more information,
795
00:35:33,066 --> 00:35:36,196
more details or maybe
something hidden in his house?
796
00:35:36,333 --> 00:35:38,973
♪ ♪
797
00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:43,770
- What he told me is,
he came home to Roswell.
798
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:46,030
He had some wreckage
in his car.
799
00:35:46,166 --> 00:35:47,796
- Mm-hmm.
- He pulled it out
800
00:35:47,934 --> 00:35:51,334
and brought it inside
and showed his family.
801
00:35:51,467 --> 00:35:53,427
♪ ♪
802
00:35:53,567 --> 00:35:58,867
But what other things he
might've done, I don't know.
803
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,470
He did not ever tell me that
he had anything, you know?
804
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,030
- Okay.
805
00:36:04,166 --> 00:36:08,266
- A piece of the wreckage
or anything like that, no.
806
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,200
♪ ♪
807
00:36:11,333 --> 00:36:14,273
Fishburne: Coming up, did
Jesse Marcel keep evidence
808
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,170
of what crashed all along...
- Jesse said he had proof?
809
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:20,530
- I said, "Oh, I'd love
to see it."
810
00:36:20,667 --> 00:36:24,097
Fishburne: Hidden in his
house in Houma?
811
00:36:24,233 --> 00:36:27,303
♪ ♪
812
00:36:30,767 --> 00:36:33,597
[dramatic mus]
813
00:36:33,734 --> 00:36:38,434
♪ ♪
814
00:36:38,567 --> 00:36:40,267
Fishburne: After meeting
with the Marcel family
815
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,100
in Jesse's hometown of Houma,
816
00:36:42,233 --> 00:36:44,603
former CIA investigator
Ben Smith
817
00:36:44,734 --> 00:36:46,874
and Jesse's
granddaughter, Denice,
818
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,370
get the opportunity to meet
someone outside the family
819
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:52,530
who claims Jesse shared
with him
820
00:36:52,667 --> 00:36:56,127
extraordinary details
of the Roswell incident,
821
00:36:56,266 --> 00:36:59,266
secrets that might lie hidden
in the coded writing
822
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:00,830
of the mysterious journal.
823
00:37:00,967 --> 00:37:03,867
- He started off by saying,
"Look, you know,
824
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,070
this thing
that happened to me was real."
825
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,670
Fishburne:
Calvin Parker says
826
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,900
he was introduced
to Jesse Marcel
827
00:37:10,033 --> 00:37:11,673
by a mutual acquaintance.
828
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,370
- Your granddaddy said
that they staged a site away
829
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:16,830
from the actual site
830
00:37:16,967 --> 00:37:19,767
to keep the
general public away.
831
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:22,170
They took weather balloons
out to the field
832
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:24,600
and tried to distribute
little pieces around
833
00:37:24,734 --> 00:37:26,604
so people could find them.
834
00:37:26,734 --> 00:37:28,604
- That I have never heard.
835
00:37:28,734 --> 00:37:30,874
Fishburne: Parker claims
that Jesse Marcel told him
836
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,130
about an elaborate
military operation
837
00:37:33,266 --> 00:37:36,726
to retrieve alien bodies
and orchestrate a cover-up
838
00:37:36,867 --> 00:37:41,067
to make it look like a
weather balloon had crashed.
839
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,400
- The first time
he mentioned it,
840
00:37:42,533 --> 00:37:44,733
he said they was
actually bodies out.
841
00:37:44,867 --> 00:37:47,667
- He said that he saw some?
- Exactly.
842
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,230
A special unit got the bodies,
and he wasn't part of that.
843
00:37:51,367 --> 00:37:52,597
- Oh.
- But they took them back
844
00:37:52,734 --> 00:37:55,074
to the base at Roswell.
845
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,030
- And he described
all of this to you?
846
00:37:57,166 --> 00:37:58,566
- He described every bit
of it to me.
847
00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:00,230
- It's so interesting
that these are details
848
00:38:00,367 --> 00:38:01,497
that I've not heard before--
- Yeah.
849
00:38:01,633 --> 00:38:02,833
I've not heard these either.
850
00:38:02,967 --> 00:38:04,467
- That he didn't tell
Linda Corley,
851
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,500
that he didn't tell
his family members.
852
00:38:06,633 --> 00:38:08,733
- He didn't tell us, yep.
- That's pretty--
853
00:38:08,867 --> 00:38:11,727
- Well, he felt like he could
talk because I told him
854
00:38:11,867 --> 00:38:13,427
that as long as he was alive,
855
00:38:13,567 --> 00:38:17,267
I would never say
nothing about it, and I didn't.
856
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,900
To my surprise, he told me--
857
00:38:19,033 --> 00:38:24,533
He said, "I've got something
that I want to show you."
858
00:38:24,667 --> 00:38:26,797
He said, "I have evidence.
859
00:38:26,934 --> 00:38:28,974
I have proof of this."
- He has proof?
860
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:31,600
Jesse said he had proof?
861
00:38:31,734 --> 00:38:35,374
- I said, "Oh, I'd love
to see it,"
862
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,770
so he told me
there's a screwdriver
863
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:40,400
in the kitchen drawer,
go get it,
864
00:38:40,533 --> 00:38:44,403
go down to a hot-water heater
and take the top off
865
00:38:44,533 --> 00:38:46,833
and bring it up here to me.
866
00:38:46,967 --> 00:38:49,797
Fishburne: Calvin Parker
says that Marcel told him
867
00:38:49,934 --> 00:38:52,804
he'd kept pieces of debris
from the Roswell crash
868
00:38:52,934 --> 00:38:56,474
and hidden them inside
a water heater in his home.
869
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,970
- I was fixing to unscrew it.
I was going to look at these.
870
00:38:59,100 --> 00:39:01,370
- So you actually touched it
and put the screwdriver to it?
871
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:05,300
- Oh, I was ready to when
somebody showed up at the door.
872
00:39:05,433 --> 00:39:07,033
- Huh.
- Oh, my gosh.
873
00:39:07,166 --> 00:39:09,196
- I don't know who this was
knocking at the door,
874
00:39:09,333 --> 00:39:13,133
but he didn't want to talk
about it in front of him.
875
00:39:13,266 --> 00:39:14,396
- Right.
- So I didn't feel
876
00:39:14,533 --> 00:39:17,403
real welcome there,
and I got up and left.
877
00:39:17,533 --> 00:39:19,533
I was planning on coming back
the next day,
878
00:39:19,667 --> 00:39:21,567
but I had to go to work.
879
00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:26,130
I went offshore for 160 days,
and I got back,
880
00:39:26,266 --> 00:39:28,296
and I couldn't wait
to get back over and see
881
00:39:28,433 --> 00:39:30,673
and get that debris.
882
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,130
I went to the house, and I
found out he had passed away.
883
00:39:34,266 --> 00:39:37,026
It broke my heart.
884
00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:40,266
- Did your father ever talk
to you about the water heater,
885
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,670
about hiding debris
here in Houma?
886
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,500
- No. This is literally
the first time
887
00:39:44,633 --> 00:39:47,603
I've ever heard this story.
If anything, I always was told
888
00:39:47,734 --> 00:39:51,134
that my grandfather
didn't keep anything.
889
00:39:51,266 --> 00:39:54,326
Did he ever say why he had
never brought it out earlier?
890
00:39:54,467 --> 00:39:56,167
That would've helped
prove his story
891
00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:57,800
that he wasn't making it up
and is like,
892
00:39:57,934 --> 00:39:59,804
"Hey, people.
I really do have proof,"
893
00:39:59,934 --> 00:40:01,904
so I'm wondering--
I'm curious as to why
894
00:40:02,033 --> 00:40:04,633
he decided to show it
to you at that point.
895
00:40:04,767 --> 00:40:06,997
- Well, he was real loyal
to his country.
896
00:40:07,133 --> 00:40:09,373
- Right.
- He was military.
897
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:12,870
You follow orders when
the military gives you orders.
898
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,870
And I think there was
899
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,770
a reluctance there
against his conscience
900
00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:21,870
about coming out against
an order that he had had.
901
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,400
- Right.
- He told me that
902
00:40:23,533 --> 00:40:24,803
when he took this material,
903
00:40:24,934 --> 00:40:27,874
it was a real trip
for him to keep it hid,
904
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,730
but he knew that he'd never
get to see it again
905
00:40:30,867 --> 00:40:32,667
when they got to Roswell.
906
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,730
- Yeah.
- So he,
907
00:40:34,867 --> 00:40:37,067
for lack of a better word,
had to steal it--
908
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,570
- Yeah.
909
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:40,800
- From the cleanup effort.
- He stole the material, yeah.
910
00:40:40,934 --> 00:40:42,504
The man was on his deathbed.
911
00:40:42,633 --> 00:40:44,033
- Right.
- You could tell
912
00:40:44,166 --> 00:40:46,826
physically that he was having
to take something.
913
00:40:46,967 --> 00:40:48,967
- Yeah.
- But mentally, he seemed
914
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:51,470
to be intact,
he seemed to be all there.
915
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,570
- Yeah.
- He didn't wanna die
916
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:55,430
with this on his conscience.
917
00:40:55,567 --> 00:40:58,197
♪ ♪
918
00:40:58,333 --> 00:41:02,603
- From a security standpoint,
it makes sense that Jesse Sr.
919
00:41:02,734 --> 00:41:05,574
would anticipate continued
scrutiny on his family.
920
00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:07,230
- Yes.
- And that he might
921
00:41:07,367 --> 00:41:09,727
want to introduce
somebody without--
922
00:41:09,867 --> 00:41:12,497
who believes,
who we can identify with
923
00:41:12,633 --> 00:41:15,103
but without
that public presence.
924
00:41:15,233 --> 00:41:17,533
- Right.
- Someone like Calvin.
925
00:41:17,667 --> 00:41:19,527
- Right.
926
00:41:19,667 --> 00:41:22,797
♪ ♪
927
00:41:22,934 --> 00:41:25,874
- There could be some debris
left around,
928
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,870
probably right there
in that house somewhere,
929
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,570
if it's still there.
930
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:32,070
- So you think the debris
could still be at the house?
931
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,570
- I know it could be.
- Huh.
932
00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:36,730
The house is just down
the road from here, and--
933
00:41:36,867 --> 00:41:38,767
- Yeah.
There's no doubt in my mind.
934
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:41,070
- And I've been
to the debris field.
935
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,630
I've been out there searching,
936
00:41:42,767 --> 00:41:44,227
and it's hard
to find anything,
937
00:41:44,367 --> 00:41:46,927
but here actually is a fresh
lead in the investigation
938
00:41:47,066 --> 00:41:48,526
that I haven't encountered yet.
939
00:41:48,667 --> 00:41:50,027
- It could mean everything.
- Yeah, everything.
940
00:41:50,166 --> 00:41:51,496
- This is probably
the best chance
941
00:41:51,633 --> 00:41:54,273
we have of finding anything
left of that crash site.
942
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,870
- Right.
943
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,770
- Thank you for taking the
time. This has been wonderful.
944
00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:00,200
- Thank you.
It's been my pleasure.
945
00:42:00,333 --> 00:42:02,333
- Thank you very much.
- Denice, thank you.
946
00:42:02,467 --> 00:42:03,697
- Thank you.
947
00:42:03,834 --> 00:42:07,274
♪ ♪
948
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,630
- Order of business
number one is get that home
949
00:42:10,767 --> 00:42:14,197
and see what we can find.
- Yes.
950
00:42:14,333 --> 00:42:15,873
- The trickiest part
about the debris field
951
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,270
is that even if we find
a piece of metal,
952
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,970
we have no idea
how it got there.
953
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:21,000
- Right.
- So many people
954
00:42:21,133 --> 00:42:22,873
have been there over time,
955
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,330
before and after.
956
00:42:24,467 --> 00:42:27,427
It could've arrived there
in any number of ways,
957
00:42:27,567 --> 00:42:32,467
But if we something hidden on
the inside of a water heater,
958
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,070
we know your grandfather
put it there.
959
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,130
- Right.
960
00:42:36,266 --> 00:42:38,096
Fishburne: If they could find
a piece of debris
961
00:42:38,233 --> 00:42:39,673
taken from the crash site,
962
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,830
it would be
an astounding development
963
00:42:41,967 --> 00:42:44,227
in the saga of Roswell.
964
00:42:44,367 --> 00:42:45,697
♪ ♪
965
00:42:45,834 --> 00:42:47,674
Smith and Denice Marcel
966
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,900
will try to get inside
Jesse Marcel's old house,
967
00:42:51,033 --> 00:42:53,173
which is only
a short drive away.
968
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:54,470
♪ ♪
969
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,770
- Coming into this cold.
970
00:42:56,900 --> 00:42:58,000
The person doesn't know us.
971
00:42:58,133 --> 00:42:59,533
We don't know them.
- Right.
972
00:42:59,667 --> 00:43:01,867
- We just have to be
prepared for the gamut.
973
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,170
- I got you.
974
00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:06,570
- Tea and cookies versus
shotgun kind of thing.
975
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:07,930
- Okay.
- So I have no idea.
976
00:43:08,066 --> 00:43:14,996
♪ ♪
977
00:43:17,433 --> 00:43:19,503
Let's not say
that we're UFO researchers.
978
00:43:19,633 --> 00:43:21,403
- Oh, yeah. No.
- We're researching
979
00:43:21,533 --> 00:43:23,403
local family history.
- Okay.
980
00:43:23,533 --> 00:43:24,403
- You used to live
in the house.
981
00:43:24,533 --> 00:43:25,733
- Okay.
- The Marcel family,
982
00:43:25,867 --> 00:43:27,197
in particular,
983
00:43:27,333 --> 00:43:28,773
and we can get into
the UFO stuff later...
984
00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:30,130
- Okay.
- Once we feel comfortable
985
00:43:30,266 --> 00:43:31,566
that it's not gonna
put them off.
986
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:33,470
- That sounds
like a really good idea.
987
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,830
♪ ♪
988
00:43:35,967 --> 00:43:37,367
- This is the part
that makes me nervous
989
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:38,670
but also gets me excited.
990
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,770
- Yes. I know what you mean.
991
00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:48,870
♪ ♪
992
00:43:51,633 --> 00:43:56,133
- Hello.
- Hi. How are you?
993
00:43:56,266 --> 00:43:57,366
- Hello.
- All right.
994
00:43:57,500 --> 00:43:59,770
- Hi!
- Hey. I'm Ben.
995
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:01,230
- Matt.
996
00:44:01,367 --> 00:44:04,327
- Matt. Nice to meet you.
- Hi. I'm Denice.
997
00:44:04,467 --> 00:44:05,627
- Denice used to live here.
998
00:44:05,767 --> 00:44:06,897
Well, her grandfather
used to live here.
999
00:44:07,033 --> 00:44:08,733
- My grandfather
used to live here.
1000
00:44:08,867 --> 00:44:10,767
- Would you mind
if she walked me
1001
00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:12,270
through a little bit
of the property
1002
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,330
to show me where things were?
1003
00:44:14,467 --> 00:44:16,967
♪ ♪
1004
00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:19,700
Fishburne: The owner is
reluctant to let them enter,
1005
00:44:19,834 --> 00:44:21,974
and so for now,
it's impossible
1006
00:44:22,100 --> 00:44:24,130
to verify Parker's claim.
1007
00:44:24,266 --> 00:44:29,266
♪ ♪
1008
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,230
Coming up...
1009
00:44:30,367 --> 00:44:31,597
- Whatever they
hit is squished,
1010
00:44:31,734 --> 00:44:33,074
but all these are holes.
1011
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,330
Fishburne: This man claims
he has debris
1012
00:44:35,467 --> 00:44:37,067
from a UFO that crashed
1013
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,730
at nearly the same time
as Roswell
1014
00:44:39,867 --> 00:44:41,997
but 200 miles away.
1015
00:44:42,133 --> 00:44:46,073
♪ ♪
1016
00:44:49,867 --> 00:44:52,697
[dramatic mus]
1017
00:44:52,834 --> 00:44:59,704
♪ ♪
1018
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:04,170
- I am in Southern New Mexico
on my way
1019
00:45:04,300 --> 00:45:07,600
to the home
of a guy named Chuck Wade.
1020
00:45:07,734 --> 00:45:10,374
Now, Chuck Wade claims to have
a piece of debris
1021
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:14,300
recovered from a potential
UFO crash site.
1022
00:45:14,433 --> 00:45:15,903
Fishburne: Ben Smith
couldn't get access
1023
00:45:16,033 --> 00:45:17,473
to Jesse Marcel's
former house
1024
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,100
to verify
whether it contained
1025
00:45:19,233 --> 00:45:21,333
Roswell crash debris.
1026
00:45:21,467 --> 00:45:23,527
Now Smith is following up
another lead
1027
00:45:23,667 --> 00:45:25,927
and meeting
with a man named Chuck Wade,
1028
00:45:26,066 --> 00:45:28,596
who is convinced
he has UFO debris
1029
00:45:28,734 --> 00:45:31,734
from a spacecraft
that crashed in 1947.
1030
00:45:31,867 --> 00:45:38,827
♪ ♪
1031
00:45:41,767 --> 00:45:44,067
- Hey. How you doing?
- Good. How are you, Chuck?
1032
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,830
- Come on in.
1033
00:45:45,967 --> 00:45:47,267
- Did your dad have
1034
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,400
a relationship
with Mac before that July?
1035
00:45:49,533 --> 00:45:51,173
- Oh, yeah.
- If you're the guy
1036
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:53,970
that owns the bar,
everybody knows you.
1037
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:55,170
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
1038
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:59,300
Dad owned that bar
for many, many years,
1039
00:45:59,433 --> 00:46:03,673
and I just loved to be there
and listen to the stories.
1040
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,670
I was seven years old
the year
1041
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,000
that the Roswell incident
happened there next to Corona.
1042
00:46:10,133 --> 00:46:12,733
Fishburne: Chuck Wade's
father, Jesse Wade,
1043
00:46:12,867 --> 00:46:15,897
owned the bar in Corona
where rancher Mac Brazel
1044
00:46:16,033 --> 00:46:17,573
first came to show
his neighbors
1045
00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:21,000
the strange debris he'd found
while herding sheep.
1046
00:46:21,133 --> 00:46:23,673
Although it is known
as the Roswell incident,
1047
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,930
the small farming
community of Corona
1048
00:46:26,066 --> 00:46:30,066
was the closest to where
Mac found the debris.
1049
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,270
- Mac Brazel found something
that he doesn't know,
1050
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,730
and recognize at all
on the Foster Ranch,
1051
00:46:36,867 --> 00:46:39,927
so he came to Corona
and asked my father to go out
1052
00:46:40,066 --> 00:46:42,166
and see what in the world
it was,
1053
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:45,070
'cause he--Mac just
flat didn't know.
1054
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,400
But my dad was busy, and it
was just himself in the bar,
1055
00:46:49,533 --> 00:46:53,073
so Dad chose
not to close the bar.
1056
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,930
Dad regretted that,
I'm going to say, immensely.
1057
00:46:58,066 --> 00:46:59,566
He'd always say,
1058
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:02,070
"I wished I'd went with Mac
to see what was out there."
1059
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,430
- Right.
1060
00:47:04,567 --> 00:47:06,197
Fishburne:
Chuck Wade also wanted
1061
00:47:06,333 --> 00:47:08,673
to see what was out there.
1062
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,370
After running his own
construction company,
1063
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:14,100
Wade has devoted
most of the last 20 years
1064
00:47:14,233 --> 00:47:15,673
to researching UFOs.
1065
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,800
♪ ♪
1066
00:47:18,934 --> 00:47:22,234
- So tell me a little bit about
some of the sites and debris
1067
00:47:22,367 --> 00:47:24,497
that you recovered.
1068
00:47:24,633 --> 00:47:28,433
I think it could inform
my investigation of Roswell.
1069
00:47:28,567 --> 00:47:32,527
- Have y'all studied the crash
on the Plains of San Agustin?
1070
00:47:32,667 --> 00:47:34,167
- No.
1071
00:47:34,300 --> 00:47:36,570
Fishburne: Wade has come to
a startling conclusion:
1072
00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:40,600
Roswell was only one
of a series of UFO crashes
1073
00:47:40,734 --> 00:47:44,574
that took place in Southern
New Mexico during that time.
1074
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:48,970
According to Wade, there were
seven UFO crashes in total.
1075
00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:53,770
Five of them occurred during
the first week of July 1947.
1076
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:58,630
- The first one here
was August 1945.
1077
00:47:58,767 --> 00:48:00,227
This one right here,
the night of the 1st
1078
00:48:00,367 --> 00:48:03,097
to the 2nd of July, 1947.
1079
00:48:03,233 --> 00:48:06,333
These three,
four, five and six
1080
00:48:06,467 --> 00:48:11,997
was about 11:00 on July
the 4th, 1947,
1081
00:48:12,133 --> 00:48:16,133
and this one up here
was in March 1948.
1082
00:48:16,266 --> 00:48:17,726
Fishburne:
Chuck Wade has a theory
1083
00:48:17,867 --> 00:48:20,467
about what caused
the spaceships to crash.
1084
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,000
- What happened, folks, is,
1085
00:48:23,133 --> 00:48:26,203
whenever they put in
Los Alamos National Laboratory,
1086
00:48:26,333 --> 00:48:30,803
they installed three major,
high-powered radars
1087
00:48:30,934 --> 00:48:33,474
to guard the skies
over Los Alamos.
1088
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,670
Fishburne: Wade, who
supervised construction
1089
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,000
of dozens of
air-traffic-control towers
1090
00:48:38,133 --> 00:48:41,703
across the U.S., believes
powerful radar signals
1091
00:48:41,834 --> 00:48:44,534
emitted from the Los Alamos
nuclear site
1092
00:48:44,667 --> 00:48:47,197
caused short circuits
in the spaceships.
1093
00:48:47,333 --> 00:48:50,773
- It electrified that craft,
and it came down in flames.
1094
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:55,800
♪ ♪
1095
00:48:55,934 --> 00:48:58,474
Fishburne: Of what he claims
are seven UFO crashes,
1096
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,200
Wade became obsessed
with one in particular,
1097
00:49:01,333 --> 00:49:04,703
which he believes crashed
on the Plains of San Agustin
1098
00:49:04,834 --> 00:49:08,304
48 hours
before the Roswell crash.
1099
00:49:08,433 --> 00:49:10,073
- New Mexico
is basically square.
1100
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:11,900
Corona is basically
1101
00:49:12,033 --> 00:49:14,773
really close
to the center of the state.
1102
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:18,200
What we call the Roswell
incident happened about
1103
00:49:18,333 --> 00:49:20,873
30 miles southeast of Corona.
1104
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,600
The Plains of San Agustin
is over here,
1105
00:49:23,734 --> 00:49:25,674
about 200 miles.
1106
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,270
♪ ♪
1107
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,170
- Chuck started going to
UFO conferences.
1108
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:33,200
One of the speakers
had discovered
1109
00:49:33,333 --> 00:49:34,603
some pieces of debris,
1110
00:49:34,734 --> 00:49:37,304
and he wanted to go
and look for more debris.
1111
00:49:37,433 --> 00:49:38,773
- Mm.
- Chuck said, well,
1112
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:40,270
he would
help him with that,
1113
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,600
and he'd get some guys
to come and help dig.
1114
00:49:43,734 --> 00:49:46,004
So they did.
1115
00:49:46,133 --> 00:49:49,373
That was in 2004.
1116
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:52,470
And they found some stuff.
1117
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,600
- I'd love to see it,
if I can.
1118
00:49:54,734 --> 00:49:58,474
- Well, I think it's right
around the corner here.
1119
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,270
Fishburne: The Wades have
several fragments.
1120
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:07,200
♪ ♪
1121
00:50:07,333 --> 00:50:10,073
- Can you tell me
what I'm looking at here?
1122
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,300
- These here is the foils.
- Mm-hmm.
1123
00:50:14,433 --> 00:50:16,333
- And then these
here have got --
1124
00:50:16,467 --> 00:50:20,027
Whatever they hit is squished,
but all these are holes.
1125
00:50:20,166 --> 00:50:22,426
- Actually, can I remove
the glass for a closer look?
1126
00:50:22,567 --> 00:50:23,897
- Sure, be glad to.
1127
00:50:24,033 --> 00:50:25,773
- And did you take this
to the government at all?
1128
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:27,900
- Not going to have any reason
to do that.
1129
00:50:28,033 --> 00:50:30,103
- Well, I'm just curious,
you know?
1130
00:50:30,233 --> 00:50:32,003
- No. I'm sure.
- If you find a UFO,
1131
00:50:32,133 --> 00:50:33,733
I don't know
what the government would say,
1132
00:50:33,867 --> 00:50:35,067
to be honest.
1133
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:36,500
- I believe they said
they didn't exist.
1134
00:50:36,633 --> 00:50:38,133
- That's true.
1135
00:50:38,266 --> 00:50:40,196
The official position is,
you know, they don't exist,
1136
00:50:40,333 --> 00:50:42,373
but things
are starting to change.
1137
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:44,370
- It's a good question, but no.
1138
00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:48,870
I avoid the government
as best as I possibly could.
1139
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,400
There is a huge, monstrous,
gigantic cover-up
1140
00:50:53,533 --> 00:50:54,903
on the Roswell incident.
1141
00:50:55,033 --> 00:50:57,933
No one in Corona was allowed--
1142
00:50:58,066 --> 00:51:02,996
they were ordered
not to talk about that crash.
1143
00:51:03,133 --> 00:51:07,003
- Yeah. There's a lot of
mistrust in the community
1144
00:51:07,133 --> 00:51:10,003
among UFO researchers
of the federal government.
1145
00:51:10,133 --> 00:51:11,273
I think a lot of it stems
1146
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,970
from the reaction
or overreaction in 1947.
1147
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:19,130
- They found something
on the Foster Ranch.
1148
00:51:19,266 --> 00:51:22,466
They didn't know what it was
or where it came from.
1149
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,800
I think Jesse Marcel
is telling the truth 100%.
1150
00:51:25,934 --> 00:51:30,134
I see no reason for him to do
other than tell the truth.
1151
00:51:30,266 --> 00:51:32,496
The Roswell incident
was from outer space,
1152
00:51:32,633 --> 00:51:33,833
and there's not a chance
1153
00:51:33,967 --> 00:51:35,597
it was a damn balloon
that we made.
1154
00:51:37,734 --> 00:51:40,704
- Now, this one is
pretty fascinating.
1155
00:51:40,834 --> 00:51:43,504
♪ ♪
1156
00:51:43,633 --> 00:51:47,133
Can I take a piece with me
to get it analyzed myself?
1157
00:51:47,266 --> 00:51:49,166
- What do you think?
1158
00:51:49,300 --> 00:51:51,300
I don't know.
It's okay with me.
1159
00:51:51,433 --> 00:51:53,033
- Do you mind if I take
this one here?
1160
00:51:53,166 --> 00:51:54,126
- Oh, sure. Sure.
1161
00:51:54,266 --> 00:51:55,926
- Yeah?
- We'd be glad to--
1162
00:51:56,066 --> 00:51:57,226
Any of them that you want,
1163
00:51:57,367 --> 00:52:00,497
we'll be glad
to take a piece off.
1164
00:52:00,633 --> 00:52:02,203
I want to know
where it came from.
1165
00:52:02,333 --> 00:52:05,203
Why is it here? Why don't they
tell us about it?
1166
00:52:05,333 --> 00:52:08,273
[saw whirring]
1167
00:52:10,133 --> 00:52:11,573
- That is pretty hard
to cut, actually.
1168
00:52:11,700 --> 00:52:13,270
- Yeah.
- It's, uh--
1169
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,400
Fishburne: Smith plans to get
this piece of metal tested
1170
00:52:15,533 --> 00:52:17,673
to see what elements
it's composed of
1171
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,370
and if there is anything
about it
1172
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:21,730
that can suggest
where it came from.
1173
00:52:21,867 --> 00:52:26,397
♪ ♪
1174
00:52:26,533 --> 00:52:27,903
Coming up...
1175
00:52:28,033 --> 00:52:29,403
- How are you doing?
- Good. How are you?
1176
00:52:29,533 --> 00:52:31,733
Fishburne: Has this seasoned
crash investigator
1177
00:52:31,867 --> 00:52:34,197
found the clue
that everyone missed?
1178
00:52:34,333 --> 00:52:36,173
- There's something
under the ground there.
1179
00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:41,730
♪ ♪
1180
00:52:45,867 --> 00:52:48,727
[dramatic music]
1181
00:52:48,867 --> 00:52:55,697
♪ ♪
1182
00:52:55,834 --> 00:52:58,004
- I'm just outside Denver,
Colorado,
1183
00:52:58,133 --> 00:53:00,073
on my way
to meet David Soucie,
1184
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,370
our crash-site expert.
1185
00:53:02,500 --> 00:53:05,570
Fishburne: David Soucie is
a former accident inspector
1186
00:53:05,700 --> 00:53:08,530
for the Federal
Aviation Administration.
1187
00:53:08,667 --> 00:53:11,897
Soucie has investigated
hundreds of crash sites,
1188
00:53:12,033 --> 00:53:14,703
so when Ben Smith took him
to the debris field
1189
00:53:14,834 --> 00:53:17,134
where Jesse Marcel first saw
what he believed
1190
00:53:17,266 --> 00:53:19,566
to be pieces
of wrecked spacecraft,
1191
00:53:19,700 --> 00:53:24,100
Soucie started
by measuring wind currents.
1192
00:53:24,233 --> 00:53:25,933
Soucie's gut reaction:
1193
00:53:26,066 --> 00:53:28,526
whatever crashed here
wasn't lightweight.
1194
00:53:28,667 --> 00:53:31,097
This contradicts
the U.S. military's story
1195
00:53:31,233 --> 00:53:33,873
that what crashed at Roswell
was a weather balloon
1196
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,270
or part of the top-secret,
1197
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,200
lighter-than-air
Project Mogul.
1198
00:53:37,333 --> 00:53:40,803
- I'm not sure I buy that
whole balloon-drag theory.
1199
00:53:40,934 --> 00:53:43,374
- Really?
1200
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:47,870
David collected all kinds
of data from the debris field:
1201
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,730
wind, geographic features,
weather.
1202
00:53:51,867 --> 00:53:54,427
I'm hoping
that he can eliminate
1203
00:53:54,567 --> 00:53:57,397
one aircraft or another.
1204
00:53:57,533 --> 00:53:58,733
Fishburne:
Smith wants David Soucie
1205
00:53:58,867 --> 00:54:00,527
to compare
his initial finding
1206
00:54:00,667 --> 00:54:02,327
with the Deep Earth analysis
1207
00:54:02,467 --> 00:54:04,667
done by
Canadian geophysicists
1208
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,500
Colin Miazga and Eric Johnson
1209
00:54:07,633 --> 00:54:10,803
when they visited the debris
field late last year.
1210
00:54:13,467 --> 00:54:16,127
Soucie has been communicating
with them online.
1211
00:54:16,266 --> 00:54:17,296
- I understand you do
1212
00:54:17,433 --> 00:54:19,033
ground-penetrative
radar, as well.
1213
00:54:19,166 --> 00:54:20,796
- Yeah. Yeah.
- Okay.
1214
00:54:20,934 --> 00:54:23,634
Fishburne: The geophysicists
used ground-penetrating radar
1215
00:54:23,767 --> 00:54:25,267
and gamma-ray technology
1216
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,870
to identify strange anomalies
in the Earth...
1217
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,370
- Look at that.
- Wow. That is interesting.
1218
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:33,800
Fishburne: A kind of scarring
that couldn't have come
1219
00:54:33,934 --> 00:54:35,834
from a deflated balloon
crash.
1220
00:54:35,967 --> 00:54:39,327
- So this is the radar.
- It doesn't make sense.
1221
00:54:39,467 --> 00:54:43,397
I can't understand
what that would be.
1222
00:54:43,533 --> 00:54:50,503
♪ ♪
1223
00:55:01,834 --> 00:55:03,274
- Hey, Ben.
- Hey, David.
1224
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:04,530
- How are you doing?
- Good. How are you?
1225
00:55:04,667 --> 00:55:05,897
- Yeah. Well, come on in.
- Oh, man.
1226
00:55:06,033 --> 00:55:08,903
I have been dying to see what
you've done with that data.
1227
00:55:09,033 --> 00:55:10,903
- Well, there's a lot
to look at, probably more
1228
00:55:11,033 --> 00:55:13,233
than you want to see.
1229
00:55:13,367 --> 00:55:14,867
The first thing
I want to start with:
1230
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,000
This is an overview of the
entire site, the entire area.
1231
00:55:18,133 --> 00:55:19,273
- Oh, wow.
1232
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,330
- That is the reported
trajectory.
1233
00:55:22,467 --> 00:55:24,527
That's where they
found the debris.
1234
00:55:24,667 --> 00:55:26,167
- Yeah.
- And then from there,
1235
00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:27,530
it spread, they said,
1236
00:55:27,667 --> 00:55:29,427
as much as a mile
in this direction off of that.
1237
00:55:29,567 --> 00:55:31,367
- Mm-hmm.
1238
00:55:31,500 --> 00:55:34,470
- A bunch of other interesting
stuff that we can get through,
1239
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,200
and now this is
what's really interesting.
1240
00:55:36,333 --> 00:55:39,433
This area really intrigues me
right down at the bottom here
1241
00:55:39,567 --> 00:55:41,267
because the gamma readings
1242
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,730
are not consistent with
the ground-penetrating radar.
1243
00:55:44,867 --> 00:55:46,367
♪ ♪
1244
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:48,000
I've never seen that before.
1245
00:55:48,133 --> 00:55:49,703
- Huh.
- It doesn't make sense me.
1246
00:55:49,834 --> 00:55:51,604
- You might have to walk me
through the actual readings.
1247
00:55:51,734 --> 00:55:53,074
- All right.
- Because I'm having
1248
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,070
a hard time visualizing it.
- Yeah. Let's do that.
1249
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,700
These red areas indicate that
the ground-penetrating radar
1250
00:55:57,834 --> 00:56:00,334
says it's extremely dense,
which is where the rocks are.
1251
00:56:00,467 --> 00:56:01,727
- Yeah.
- And that sort of thing.
1252
00:56:01,867 --> 00:56:04,627
Here's an example
of a dense area,
1253
00:56:04,767 --> 00:56:06,427
and in this dense area,
1254
00:56:06,567 --> 00:56:10,267
you would expect to see low
gamma rays because it has --
1255
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,670
It's not coming through.
It's blocking the gamma.
1256
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,230
So let's look
at that spot here.
1257
00:56:14,367 --> 00:56:16,827
Gamma rays are indicated
by yellow or green,
1258
00:56:16,967 --> 00:56:19,867
and if there's less gamma,
it's blue, and sure enough,
1259
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,430
here's this light blue
where the rocks were.
1260
00:56:21,567 --> 00:56:22,597
- Yeah.
- And then here's
1261
00:56:22,734 --> 00:56:24,004
the same thing here.
1262
00:56:24,133 --> 00:56:25,803
- It almost matches perfectly
with the GPR.
1263
00:56:25,934 --> 00:56:27,174
- Yes. You could look at
1264
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:28,700
any of these spots,
any of these blues here.
1265
00:56:28,834 --> 00:56:29,934
- Yep.
- And it aligns
1266
00:56:30,066 --> 00:56:31,696
with these reds here.
- Got it.
1267
00:56:31,834 --> 00:56:33,274
♪ ♪
1268
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:34,670
- This spot...
1269
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:36,130
♪ ♪
1270
00:56:36,266 --> 00:56:38,126
now that we're just a little
above the green line--
1271
00:56:38,266 --> 00:56:39,866
We were looking here before,
below the green line.
1272
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,130
- Right.
1273
00:56:41,266 --> 00:56:42,466
- But now above there,
that's red.
1274
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,100
Let's take a closer look
at it.
1275
00:56:44,233 --> 00:56:46,733
See all the red? All the red.
It's dense.
1276
00:56:46,867 --> 00:56:49,567
It's hard and solid,
which would block gamma.
1277
00:56:49,700 --> 00:56:51,130
- Uh-huh.
1278
00:56:51,266 --> 00:56:52,726
- So now I'm going to flip
this. I'm going to think,
1279
00:56:52,867 --> 00:56:54,527
well, we're going to find
a blue spot there.
1280
00:56:54,667 --> 00:56:57,067
But instead,
look what we find:
1281
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,670
the opposite of what
I would expect.
1282
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,270
- Right.
- And not only
1283
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,900
what I would expect, but what
we witnessed right here.
1284
00:57:03,033 --> 00:57:05,033
That was consistent
with tight compaction
1285
00:57:05,166 --> 00:57:06,296
and blocking the gammas.
1286
00:57:06,433 --> 00:57:09,433
- Yeah.
- But now it's yellow.
1287
00:57:09,567 --> 00:57:11,867
- The highest.
- Not only is it high,
1288
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,100
it is the highest right there.
1289
00:57:15,233 --> 00:57:17,633
♪ ♪
1290
00:57:17,767 --> 00:57:20,527
- It's something that--
It doesn't make sense to me.
1291
00:57:20,667 --> 00:57:23,027
- Have you ever seen that
in a wreck that you--
1292
00:57:23,166 --> 00:57:24,596
- No. No. I have not.
1293
00:57:24,734 --> 00:57:26,704
I've not seen this before.
There's something there.
1294
00:57:26,834 --> 00:57:29,804
There's something unique about
this spot above the green line.
1295
00:57:29,934 --> 00:57:31,074
As an accident investigator
1296
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,070
and what I've been doing
my entire life,
1297
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:34,830
there's something
under the ground there.
1298
00:57:34,967 --> 00:57:36,397
There's something
making these changes,
1299
00:57:36,533 --> 00:57:38,433
these readings different.
1300
00:57:38,567 --> 00:57:41,467
- So what could make
that kind of contrast,
1301
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,800
the high density
with high radiation?
1302
00:57:43,934 --> 00:57:45,034
- The only thing I can think of
1303
00:57:45,166 --> 00:57:47,126
is that
in ground-penetrating radar,
1304
00:57:47,266 --> 00:57:50,666
a rubber or polyethylene
and rubber...
1305
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,000
- Uh-huh.
- Can create that illusion
1306
00:57:53,133 --> 00:57:55,173
of high density.
1307
00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:57,970
But it would also allow gamma
to come up through it
1308
00:57:58,100 --> 00:58:01,030
because it's not going
to block the gamma rays.
1309
00:58:01,166 --> 00:58:02,926
Fishburne:
After analyzing the data,
1310
00:58:03,066 --> 00:58:06,026
David Soucie can no longer
rule out the possibility
1311
00:58:06,166 --> 00:58:09,896
that it was a Mogul balloon
that went down at Roswell.
1312
00:58:10,033 --> 00:58:11,603
- So, I mean, a Mogul balloon
1313
00:58:11,734 --> 00:58:13,374
was made of something
like neoprene.
1314
00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:16,200
- Exactly, so to me,
that explains it.
1315
00:58:16,333 --> 00:58:18,273
To me, that is what
I would be looking for.
1316
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,970
That's the assumption
I would make
1317
00:58:20,100 --> 00:58:22,170
and go out
and try to find that.
1318
00:58:22,300 --> 00:58:24,900
Fishburne: Soucie admits
that his analysis is just
1319
00:58:25,033 --> 00:58:26,873
an educated guess,
1320
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,800
and even that is based
on a 1995 government report
1321
00:58:30,934 --> 00:58:33,404
which provided
no physical evidence
1322
00:58:33,533 --> 00:58:38,773
but asserted that a Mogul
balloon crashed at Roswell,
1323
00:58:38,900 --> 00:58:40,400
a report millions
of Americans
1324
00:58:40,533 --> 00:58:42,233
still don't believe.
1325
00:58:42,367 --> 00:58:45,767
- [chanting] Hey, hey, UFOs,
people have the right to know!
1326
00:58:45,900 --> 00:58:48,270
- If this group of 100
demonstrators is correct,
1327
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,100
the U.S. government
is covering up
1328
00:58:50,233 --> 00:58:52,803
the most important secret
of all time:
1329
00:58:52,934 --> 00:58:58,274
alien beings who have made
contact with Earthlings.
1330
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,400
- They said, "Well, what
about the bodies?"
1331
00:59:00,533 --> 00:59:02,973
How could so many people
have come forward and say,
1332
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:05,530
"Well, when I was a kid, I saw
this, and I saw these bodies,
1333
00:59:05,667 --> 00:59:07,767
"and I saw this stuff,
and some Air Force guys
1334
00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:09,830
came out and picked up stuff
in the desert."
1335
00:59:09,967 --> 00:59:12,627
How do we explain that?
1336
00:59:12,767 --> 00:59:15,467
Fishburne: At that infamous
1997 press conference,
1337
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,500
where the Air Force
doubled down on its claim
1338
00:59:17,633 --> 00:59:20,473
that what crashed at Roswell
was a Mogul balloon,
1339
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,070
it also issued
a remarkable second report
1340
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:27,330
that some believe undermined
its entire explanation.
1341
00:59:27,467 --> 00:59:28,997
♪ ♪
1342
00:59:29,133 --> 00:59:31,273
- We're confident
once the report is out
1343
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,100
and digested by the public,
1344
00:59:33,233 --> 00:59:36,533
that this will be the final
word on the Roswell incident.
1345
00:59:37,934 --> 00:59:39,074
Fishburne: This second report
1346
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:40,730
offered
what the Air Force hoped
1347
00:59:40,867 --> 00:59:44,097
was a logical explanation
to appease those Americans
1348
00:59:44,233 --> 00:59:45,773
who found
alleged eyewitness stories
1349
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:51,270
about aliens at Roswell both
believable and compelling.
1350
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,370
- Bodies observed
in the New Mexico desert
1351
00:59:53,500 --> 00:59:56,600
were probably test dummies
that were carried aloft
1352
00:59:56,734 --> 00:59:59,174
by U.S. Air Force
high-altitude balloons
1353
00:59:59,300 --> 01:00:00,630
for scientific research.
1354
01:00:02,867 --> 01:00:05,467
- Additional research
uncovered information
1355
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,830
which explained some of
the claims of alien bodies
1356
01:00:08,967 --> 01:00:12,267
associated with
the Roswell incident.
1357
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,430
Fishburne: The second report,
called "Case Solved,"
1358
01:00:15,567 --> 01:00:16,897
was accompanied
by a short film
1359
01:00:17,033 --> 01:00:18,333
produced by the Air Force.
1360
01:00:18,467 --> 01:00:19,997
♪ ♪
1361
01:00:20,133 --> 01:00:22,433
- The project's
main objective
1362
01:00:22,567 --> 01:00:23,997
was to study methods
1363
01:00:24,133 --> 01:00:27,033
for returning a pilot
or astronaut safely to Earth
1364
01:00:27,166 --> 01:00:29,696
by parachute
if forced to eject
1365
01:00:29,834 --> 01:00:32,434
at extremely high altitudes.
1366
01:00:32,567 --> 01:00:37,427
For these tests, dummies were
transported up to 98,000 feet
1367
01:00:37,567 --> 01:00:41,297
by high-altitude balloons.
1368
01:00:41,433 --> 01:00:42,633
Fishburne:
The Air Force contended
1369
01:00:42,767 --> 01:00:43,997
that anyone who thought
they'd seen
1370
01:00:44,133 --> 01:00:46,203
the military
recovering alien bodies
1371
01:00:46,333 --> 01:00:48,273
were actually witnessing
exercises
1372
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,130
that involved dropping
anthropomorphic dummies
1373
01:00:51,266 --> 01:00:52,866
from high-altitude balloons.
1374
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,800
♪ ♪
1375
01:00:54,934 --> 01:00:57,534
- Many of the dummies landed
outside the confines
1376
01:00:57,667 --> 01:00:59,127
of military reservation
1377
01:00:59,266 --> 01:01:03,226
and were regularly observed
by local civilians.
1378
01:01:03,367 --> 01:01:06,527
Critical examination
of alleged alien sightings
1379
01:01:06,667 --> 01:01:09,097
consistently match
the physical characteristics
1380
01:01:09,233 --> 01:01:10,533
of these dummies,
1381
01:01:10,667 --> 01:01:13,227
as well as where
and how they were used.
1382
01:01:13,367 --> 01:01:15,327
♪ ♪
1383
01:01:15,467 --> 01:01:18,597
- I think it's logical to
assume that the people there
1384
01:01:18,734 --> 01:01:22,104
saw Air Force ambulances
come out.
1385
01:01:22,233 --> 01:01:23,433
They saw gurneys come out.
1386
01:01:23,567 --> 01:01:24,897
They saw body bags come out
1387
01:01:25,033 --> 01:01:26,373
because the dummies were put
into body bags
1388
01:01:26,500 --> 01:01:29,030
to protect them, and when you
put all that stuff
1389
01:01:29,166 --> 01:01:30,166
together and spin it,
1390
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:31,730
you'll find that
it fits perfectly
1391
01:01:31,867 --> 01:01:35,467
with many of the occurrences
in Roswell during that era.
1392
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:40,000
♪ ♪
1393
01:01:40,133 --> 01:01:41,433
Fishburne:
At the press conference,
1394
01:01:41,567 --> 01:01:43,567
the problem with the
Air Force's explanation
1395
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:45,700
was obvious to reporters.
1396
01:01:45,834 --> 01:01:50,004
Its dummy-drop exercises
didn't take place in 1947.
1397
01:01:50,133 --> 01:01:53,203
They only started
in the early 1950s.
1398
01:01:53,333 --> 01:01:55,933
- They're talking about 1947,
but you're talking
1399
01:01:56,066 --> 01:01:59,866
about dummies used in the
'50s, almost a decade later.
1400
01:02:00,066 --> 01:02:02,126
- Well, I'm afraid
that's the problem
1401
01:02:02,266 --> 01:02:04,896
that we have
with time compression.
1402
01:02:05,033 --> 01:02:06,603
I don't know what they saw
in '47,
1403
01:02:06,734 --> 01:02:10,574
but I'm quite sure
it probably was Project Mogul.
1404
01:02:10,700 --> 01:02:12,970
Fishburne: UFO author and
researcher Don Schmitt
1405
01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:15,670
believes the Air Force
was disrespectful,
1406
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,470
writing off
alleged eyewitnesses
1407
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,600
as having aging
and faulty memories.
1408
01:02:20,734 --> 01:02:23,504
- "Oh, it's time compression."
1409
01:02:23,633 --> 01:02:27,233
New malady, not even
in the medical books,
1410
01:02:27,367 --> 01:02:29,267
created by the Pentagon.
1411
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,900
"The older you get, you start
to not only compress the years
1412
01:02:33,033 --> 01:02:36,633
but also the decades."
But the problem with that:
1413
01:02:36,767 --> 01:02:39,627
All the personnel
who were here in '47,
1414
01:02:39,767 --> 01:02:42,767
who were involved
were no longer here in '52,
1415
01:02:42,900 --> 01:02:46,530
so how could they be mistaking
wooden crash dummies in '52
1416
01:02:46,667 --> 01:02:48,167
if they weren't even here?
1417
01:02:48,300 --> 01:02:50,300
- Colonel, let me just go back
one more time.
1418
01:02:50,433 --> 01:02:52,003
You say that this is
case closed,
1419
01:02:52,133 --> 01:02:53,233
and people
should now believe it,
1420
01:02:53,367 --> 01:02:55,097
but with the major hole,
though:
1421
01:02:55,233 --> 01:02:57,403
You're saying that they're
wrong about the date.
1422
01:02:57,533 --> 01:02:59,303
What explanation
can you give them
1423
01:02:59,433 --> 01:03:00,973
other than just saying,
1424
01:03:01,100 --> 01:03:04,000
"Well, we just think they're
just mistaken by six years?"
1425
01:03:04,133 --> 01:03:05,633
- I have no other explanation.
1426
01:03:05,767 --> 01:03:07,467
I'm sorry. I just--
I have no other explanation.
1427
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,530
I'm looking at the facts
as we have studied them,
1428
01:03:10,667 --> 01:03:11,867
and I have no other explanation
1429
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,070
of that
but what I've already given.
1430
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:14,300
- But how--
- Yes, sir?
1431
01:03:14,433 --> 01:03:15,903
- Would that
make it case closed?
1432
01:03:16,033 --> 01:03:19,003
- Because we've reviewed
all the relevant information,
1433
01:03:19,133 --> 01:03:21,333
and we have finished this, and
we're not going to revisit it.
1434
01:03:21,467 --> 01:03:23,397
- How do you know
that you're not being used?
1435
01:03:23,533 --> 01:03:25,673
How do you know
that you know the full story?
1436
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,270
[laughter]
1437
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,730
You're confident that
you're not part of any cover-up
1438
01:03:29,867 --> 01:03:31,867
wittingly or unwittingly.
1439
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,600
- I'm totally confident,
but I think Colonel Weaver--
1440
01:03:34,734 --> 01:03:37,274
you might have seen him
on TV earlier--said it best.
1441
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,700
We can't even
keep single secrets.
1442
01:03:39,834 --> 01:03:42,474
How could we have a conspiracy
or a cover-up?
1443
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:43,830
- Well, it happened in 1953.
1444
01:03:43,967 --> 01:03:47,397
How could anybody mess
that up from 1947?
1445
01:03:47,533 --> 01:03:49,533
People's memories
fade over time.
1446
01:03:49,667 --> 01:03:51,967
- We think that this answers
lots of questions,
1447
01:03:52,100 --> 01:03:55,030
and it answers them
logically and with integrity.
1448
01:03:55,166 --> 01:04:01,766
♪ ♪
1449
01:04:01,900 --> 01:04:06,030
Fishburne: Coming up, closing
in on who wrote the journal.
1450
01:04:06,166 --> 01:04:09,626
Could it be this man,
a highly decorated war hero?
1451
01:04:09,767 --> 01:04:11,627
- There are some words
and letter combinations
1452
01:04:11,767 --> 01:04:14,667
I do see in agreement.
There is potential.
1453
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,570
♪ ♪
1454
01:04:22,433 --> 01:04:25,273
[dramatic music]
1455
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:32,070
♪ ♪
1456
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,100
- I'm excited to hear
about your findings.
1457
01:04:35,233 --> 01:04:39,273
- So there are two styles
of uppercase Ws
1458
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,630
that I noticed in the journal.
1459
01:04:42,767 --> 01:04:45,427
Fishburne: Ben Smith is with
forensic handwriting expert
1460
01:04:45,567 --> 01:04:48,997
Jennifer Naso, who has been
analyzing writing samples
1461
01:04:49,133 --> 01:04:52,703
from some of the officers
in the 509th bomber group.
1462
01:04:52,834 --> 01:04:55,134
She is checking to see
if they could've written
1463
01:04:55,266 --> 01:04:58,026
the puzzling journal that
belonged to their colleague,
1464
01:04:58,166 --> 01:05:00,966
Jesse Marcel.
1465
01:05:01,100 --> 01:05:02,600
Colonel William Blanchard,
1466
01:05:02,734 --> 01:05:04,704
commander
of the Roswell Air Base,
1467
01:05:04,834 --> 01:05:06,174
would certainly
have known
1468
01:05:06,300 --> 01:05:09,970
about any top secret
operation in his sector.
1469
01:05:10,100 --> 01:05:13,330
- When we look at
the Blanchard,
1470
01:05:13,467 --> 01:05:15,927
there are some
dissimilarities,
1471
01:05:16,066 --> 01:05:19,126
but it's really not
a whole lot to go on.
1472
01:05:19,266 --> 01:05:21,226
- So your professional judgment
would be,
1473
01:05:21,367 --> 01:05:24,867
there's not enough data yet to
confirm one way or the other.
1474
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,670
- Right. There would be
no conclusion
1475
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,100
as to whether or not
he authored the journal
1476
01:05:29,233 --> 01:05:31,673
based on just the one
signature that we have.
1477
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,030
- Right.
1478
01:05:33,166 --> 01:05:34,996
- So in the Walter Haut
handwriting,
1479
01:05:35,133 --> 01:05:36,603
I noticed that's
what we would call
1480
01:05:36,734 --> 01:05:39,604
a combination style
of writing.
1481
01:05:39,734 --> 01:05:41,074
Fishburne:
Lieutenant Walter Haut
1482
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,070
was the public information
officer for the 509th,
1483
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,130
who was ordered
by Colonel Blanchard
1484
01:05:46,266 --> 01:05:48,196
to draft that famous
press release
1485
01:05:48,333 --> 01:05:50,573
that a flying disc
had been recovered.
1486
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:53,900
- Where it's not all cursive,
it's all not hand-printing,
1487
01:05:54,033 --> 01:05:58,003
so some letters have connecting
strokes while others do not.
1488
01:05:58,133 --> 01:06:00,303
Right away, that's a difference
between what I see
1489
01:06:00,433 --> 01:06:03,573
in the all-cursive
writing of the journal,
1490
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:06,930
so here is the word "and"
in the journal.
1491
01:06:07,066 --> 01:06:08,766
See the formation of the A--
- Yeah.
1492
01:06:08,900 --> 01:06:12,430
- How it starts up
around 2:00
1493
01:06:12,567 --> 01:06:15,627
and then comes counterclockwise
and forms this other loop.
1494
01:06:15,767 --> 01:06:20,497
When we look at the "and" in
the Walter Haut handwriting--
1495
01:06:20,633 --> 01:06:25,233
- Oh, totally different.
So already, I get the sense
1496
01:06:25,367 --> 01:06:28,167
that this journal
was not written by Walter Haut.
1497
01:06:28,300 --> 01:06:32,130
- The characteristics
that I'm noting thus far
1498
01:06:32,266 --> 01:06:35,066
are not similar to what
I'm seeing in the journal.
1499
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:36,730
- Yeah.
1500
01:06:36,867 --> 01:06:39,397
- The next sample would be
1501
01:06:39,533 --> 01:06:40,973
Robert Shirkey.
- Yeah.
1502
01:06:41,100 --> 01:06:42,400
Fishburne:
Lieutenant Robert Shirkey
1503
01:06:42,533 --> 01:06:45,733
was assistant operations
officer for the 509th.
1504
01:06:45,867 --> 01:06:48,897
He also said Jesse Marcel
was telling the truth
1505
01:06:49,033 --> 01:06:52,603
and claimed he'd seen
debris flown out of Roswell
1506
01:06:52,734 --> 01:06:56,104
and believed it was
extraterrestrial.
1507
01:06:56,233 --> 01:06:57,733
- So here we have
the word "July"...
1508
01:06:57,867 --> 01:07:00,527
- Mm-hmm.
- In the journal,
1509
01:07:00,667 --> 01:07:03,967
and just note the formation
of the uppercase J.
1510
01:07:04,100 --> 01:07:05,330
- Uh-huh.
1511
01:07:05,467 --> 01:07:08,797
- Here in the word "July,"
look at the formation
1512
01:07:08,934 --> 01:07:11,574
of the J compared
to the known writing...
1513
01:07:11,700 --> 01:07:13,830
- Mm-hmm.
- And the questioned.
1514
01:07:13,967 --> 01:07:17,827
- So already, again, I see a
deliberate contrast in strokes
1515
01:07:17,967 --> 01:07:22,797
that they start to pop as
different handwriting styles.
1516
01:07:22,934 --> 01:07:26,634
- And what we're looking for
is a pattern of writing,
1517
01:07:26,767 --> 01:07:30,167
and when Easley
creates this drag stroke--
1518
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:32,530
- "Being," yeah.
- "Being," it's a long,
1519
01:07:32,667 --> 01:07:35,797
exaggerated drag stroke.
1520
01:07:35,934 --> 01:07:37,104
Fishburne:
Major Edwin Easley
1521
01:07:37,233 --> 01:07:39,003
was in charge
of base security.
1522
01:07:39,133 --> 01:07:41,703
He would've been responsible
for safeguarding the debris
1523
01:07:41,834 --> 01:07:44,374
and controlling which
personnel had access to it.
1524
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:46,470
♪ ♪
1525
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,300
- And you see that again.
You see that repeated
1526
01:07:48,433 --> 01:07:51,433
throughout the known writing,
whereas in the journal,
1527
01:07:51,567 --> 01:07:55,797
you just have the I-dot
above the letter,
1528
01:07:55,934 --> 01:07:58,034
so you do have
some dissimilarities
1529
01:07:58,166 --> 01:08:00,266
in this writing sample,
as well.
1530
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,130
- Shoot. Well, that leaves us
Patrick Saunders.
1531
01:08:04,266 --> 01:08:06,096
Fishburne: Patrick Saunders
was Colonel Blanchard's
1532
01:08:06,233 --> 01:08:09,373
number two,
his top deputy.
1533
01:08:09,500 --> 01:08:11,270
He would've been in the room
when Jesse Marcel
1534
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:12,900
returned from
the debris field
1535
01:08:13,033 --> 01:08:16,073
to brief the commander.
1536
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,270
- There are some words
and letter combinations
1537
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:20,200
I do see in agreement,
1538
01:08:20,333 --> 01:08:22,033
so one of the words in common
between the question
1539
01:08:22,166 --> 01:08:24,226
and the known
is the word "anything."
1540
01:08:24,367 --> 01:08:27,197
And if you look at the
writing in the journal...
1541
01:08:27,333 --> 01:08:28,633
- Right.
- There is a pen lift
1542
01:08:28,767 --> 01:08:31,697
after the Y,
in between the Y and the T,
1543
01:08:31,834 --> 01:08:33,874
and you see that again here.
1544
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,770
- Right.
- The Y terminates and then--
1545
01:08:36,900 --> 01:08:39,800
- That's pretty distinctive.
- The same thing here,
1546
01:08:39,934 --> 01:08:42,204
and in the known writing--
- Wow!
1547
01:08:42,333 --> 01:08:44,633
- We do see that
combination, as well,
1548
01:08:44,767 --> 01:08:46,927
where that pen lifts
between the Y and the T.
1549
01:08:47,066 --> 01:08:48,266
- Yeah.
- I would describe that
1550
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:50,070
as more of
a general characteristic.
1551
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:51,970
- Okay.
- But right now,
1552
01:08:52,100 --> 01:08:53,600
it is a similarity.
- Huh.
1553
01:08:53,734 --> 01:08:55,574
♪ ♪
1554
01:08:55,700 --> 01:08:57,730
- Also, when you look
at the letter formations,
1555
01:08:57,867 --> 01:09:02,897
the termination of the Y
in all three "anythings"
1556
01:09:03,033 --> 01:09:04,873
in the journal
terminates downward.
1557
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,970
There is no upward-move
formation.
1558
01:09:08,100 --> 01:09:10,470
It terminates downward.
1559
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,630
If you look at the height
ratios between the T and the H,
1560
01:09:13,767 --> 01:09:16,997
here you see the H
is much taller than the T,
1561
01:09:17,133 --> 01:09:18,803
and you see that
throughout the questions.
1562
01:09:18,934 --> 01:09:21,374
The H and the T,
1563
01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:23,600
and you also see that the H
in the known's
1564
01:09:23,734 --> 01:09:27,704
is also taller than the T.
- Okay.
1565
01:09:27,834 --> 01:09:29,974
- So do you see enough
then to exclude this
1566
01:09:30,100 --> 01:09:34,000
as a candidate,
or is it still a viable option?
1567
01:09:34,133 --> 01:09:38,073
- I don't see enough right now
to exclude this person
1568
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:39,470
as a candidate.
1569
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,300
Of all the samples,
1570
01:09:41,433 --> 01:09:45,133
with the Pat Saunders one,
there's potential.
1571
01:09:45,266 --> 01:09:47,996
- This man is at the nexus
of all the secrets.
1572
01:09:48,133 --> 01:09:50,673
Because Patrick Saunders
would've touched
1573
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,630
every document,
overhead every phone call,
1574
01:09:53,767 --> 01:09:56,227
would've seen everything
Colonel Blanchard's seen,
1575
01:09:56,367 --> 01:09:59,027
and if he is the author
of the journal,
1576
01:09:59,166 --> 01:10:00,826
then I really think
we're onto something.
1577
01:10:00,967 --> 01:10:03,667
♪ ♪
1578
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:05,330
Fishburne: Coming up,
1579
01:10:05,467 --> 01:10:08,027
did Patrick Saunders
organize a cover-up?
1580
01:10:08,166 --> 01:10:11,426
- He just mentioned that
he changed the serial numbers,
1581
01:10:11,567 --> 01:10:13,867
and he destroyed
files about it.
1582
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,600
- Really?
1583
01:10:15,734 --> 01:10:17,704
Fishburne: What did he tell
his family about Roswell?
1584
01:10:17,834 --> 01:10:19,174
- Do you think he was
protecting you
1585
01:10:19,300 --> 01:10:22,830
from the secrets that he knew?
- Absolutely.
1586
01:10:22,967 --> 01:10:27,097
♪ ♪
1587
01:10:30,467 --> 01:10:33,327
tic music]
1588
01:10:33,467 --> 01:10:37,927
♪ ♪
1589
01:10:38,066 --> 01:10:39,966
Fishburne: He was the base
commander's number two,
1590
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:41,670
his right-hand man,
1591
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,900
but who is Patrick Saunders?
1592
01:10:45,033 --> 01:10:47,473
What was his role
in the Roswell incident?
1593
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,770
What did he believe?
And if he wrote the journal
1594
01:10:50,900 --> 01:10:53,900
Jesse Marcel
kept close for decades,
1595
01:10:54,033 --> 01:10:57,473
what secrets did
the two men share?
1596
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:58,900
Investigator Ben Smith
1597
01:10:59,033 --> 01:11:02,873
has tracked down two of
Saunders' five children.
1598
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:04,900
- So you were three years old
in 1947,
1599
01:11:05,033 --> 01:11:07,203
and you were living
in Roswell at the time?
1600
01:11:07,333 --> 01:11:11,473
- Yes. We were living
in Roswell on base.
1601
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,370
- On base?
- Yes.
1602
01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:17,900
We lived there
until about 1950.
1603
01:11:18,033 --> 01:11:19,403
♪ ♪
1604
01:11:19,533 --> 01:11:22,703
- And can you tell me a
little bit about your father?
1605
01:11:22,834 --> 01:11:26,704
- Well, my dad
was a very proud officer.
1606
01:11:26,834 --> 01:11:32,534
He was a very personable man,
and while he could be serious,
1607
01:11:32,667 --> 01:11:36,167
he could also be lots of fun
to be with.
1608
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:37,930
- Can you tell me
a little bit about his role
1609
01:11:38,066 --> 01:11:40,296
at Roswell
Army Air Force Base?
1610
01:11:40,433 --> 01:11:44,833
- He was in charge
of assigning the troops
1611
01:11:44,967 --> 01:11:49,967
to the cleanup effort
at the crash site.
1612
01:11:50,100 --> 01:11:51,830
- He was involved
in the first meeting
1613
01:11:51,967 --> 01:11:57,127
they had after the crash
with Colonel Blanchard.
1614
01:11:57,266 --> 01:11:59,496
- And what was your reaction
when you first found out
1615
01:11:59,633 --> 01:12:01,273
about your dad's role
1616
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:05,930
at the Roswell Army
Air Force Base at this time?
1617
01:12:06,066 --> 01:12:10,096
- You know, I wasn't
even born when it happened.
1618
01:12:10,233 --> 01:12:14,073
Years later, I hear my
sisters asking him questions
1619
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:15,630
and things like that,
1620
01:12:15,767 --> 01:12:19,427
but I just thought everybody's
dad was cool like that.
1621
01:12:19,567 --> 01:12:22,567
[both laugh]
1622
01:12:23,767 --> 01:12:25,267
♪ ♪
1623
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,230
- Do you know if he ever saw
or handled the debris
1624
01:12:28,367 --> 01:12:30,397
or any intelligence
reports
1625
01:12:30,533 --> 01:12:33,073
about descriptions
of the debris?
1626
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:37,770
- He said he knew it wasn't
a weather balloon.
1627
01:12:37,900 --> 01:12:39,100
- So your father said
1628
01:12:39,233 --> 01:12:40,803
it was definitely
not a weather balloon?
1629
01:12:40,934 --> 01:12:43,604
- Absolutely. That's one of
the things I remember him
1630
01:12:43,734 --> 01:12:45,874
telling me more than once
1631
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:47,630
and that he knew
about weather balloons
1632
01:12:47,767 --> 01:12:52,427
because he dealt with them
with spying over Russia.
1633
01:12:52,567 --> 01:12:55,997
He did tell me that
the debris helped to develop
1634
01:12:56,133 --> 01:12:58,273
the stealth jet fighter
1635
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,170
and that there was
a similarity
1636
01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:01,600
between the jet fighter
1637
01:13:01,734 --> 01:13:04,604
and the thing
that crashed at Roswell.
1638
01:13:04,734 --> 01:13:06,174
- That is fascinating.
1639
01:13:06,300 --> 01:13:08,970
♪ ♪
1640
01:13:09,100 --> 01:13:10,330
Fishburne:
Patrick Saunders' daughter
1641
01:13:10,467 --> 01:13:12,567
says her father gave her
a well-known book
1642
01:13:12,700 --> 01:13:14,930
about the Roswell incident
1643
01:13:15,066 --> 01:13:17,466
and wrote comments
in the margins.
1644
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,870
- He wrote down page numbers,
1645
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,800
and then he
highlighted sentences
1646
01:13:21,934 --> 01:13:25,274
that he thought
were very important.
1647
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:29,570
On page 142, he highlighted,
"Patrick Saunders was a major
1648
01:13:29,700 --> 01:13:31,730
"and assigned
as the base adjutant.
1649
01:13:31,867 --> 01:13:35,167
"His job would've required
him accomplish paperwork
1650
01:13:35,300 --> 01:13:37,670
"surrounding the assigning
of the troops
1651
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:39,630
to clean up the debris."
1652
01:13:39,767 --> 01:13:40,827
- Did he ever share any names
1653
01:13:40,967 --> 01:13:42,597
about
who might have cleaned it up?
1654
01:13:42,734 --> 01:13:46,974
- No. He just mentioned that
he changed the serial numbers,
1655
01:13:47,100 --> 01:13:52,200
and he changed files
or destroyed files about it.
1656
01:13:52,333 --> 01:13:54,333
- Really?
- Mm-hmm.
1657
01:13:54,467 --> 01:13:57,797
- So your father, in some ways,
was involved then
1658
01:13:57,934 --> 01:13:59,404
with the cover-up--
- Yes.
1659
01:13:59,533 --> 01:14:01,203
- And changing the serial
numbers of the soldiers--
1660
01:14:01,333 --> 01:14:03,173
- Of the men who cleaned
up the debris.
1661
01:14:03,300 --> 01:14:06,500
- Wow. And he also
destroyed files.
1662
01:14:06,633 --> 01:14:08,773
- Mm-hmm.
- Huh.
1663
01:14:08,900 --> 01:14:10,600
- Or changed them.
1664
01:14:10,734 --> 01:14:13,504
♪ ♪
1665
01:14:13,633 --> 01:14:17,303
- A key figure to the whole
question: Jesse Marcel Sr.
1666
01:14:17,433 --> 01:14:18,773
did confirm there was
a cover-up,
1667
01:14:18,900 --> 01:14:20,700
that he was not holding
the actual debris
1668
01:14:20,834 --> 01:14:23,974
in the original press photo.
1669
01:14:24,100 --> 01:14:26,670
- Yes. He was concerned
about Major Marcel
1670
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:28,900
and the things
that he was saying.
1671
01:14:29,033 --> 01:14:31,473
He didn't say
he shouldn't have said them.
1672
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:33,830
He just showed--
1673
01:14:33,967 --> 01:14:37,097
voiced concern about talking
about these things.
1674
01:14:37,233 --> 01:14:39,673
♪ ♪
1675
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,070
- You know,
Jesse Marcel
1676
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,200
seemed
a little bit distraught
1677
01:14:44,333 --> 01:14:46,403
by the fact that he had to
retain this secret
1678
01:14:46,533 --> 01:14:49,873
and lie to the public
for the good of his country,
1679
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,400
what he believed
was important
1680
01:14:51,533 --> 01:14:53,173
to national security.
1681
01:14:53,300 --> 01:14:56,430
Did you ever get a sense that
your father was disturbed
1682
01:14:56,567 --> 01:14:58,397
by the official
government line
1683
01:14:58,533 --> 01:15:01,573
about what was
recovered there?
1684
01:15:01,700 --> 01:15:03,370
- I think it was hard for him
1685
01:15:03,500 --> 01:15:06,900
to keep the secrets
that he knew.
1686
01:15:07,033 --> 01:15:09,433
Even if other people
were talking about them
1687
01:15:09,567 --> 01:15:11,527
and writing books about it,
1688
01:15:11,667 --> 01:15:14,497
I think
he struggled with that.
1689
01:15:14,633 --> 01:15:19,873
- He took his role as
officer in the Air Force
1690
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,230
and ensuring national
security--
1691
01:15:22,367 --> 01:15:24,027
he took that very seriously.
1692
01:15:24,166 --> 01:15:25,766
♪ ♪
1693
01:15:25,900 --> 01:15:29,170
So, yeah,
he did what he had to do
1694
01:15:29,300 --> 01:15:35,170
and was instructed to do
and made no apologies.
1695
01:15:35,300 --> 01:15:38,400
♪ ♪
1696
01:15:38,533 --> 01:15:41,103
- You know, we were warned
not to talk about Roswell
1697
01:15:41,233 --> 01:15:44,103
outside the family,
1698
01:15:44,233 --> 01:15:48,773
and we generally
didn't talk about it.
1699
01:15:48,900 --> 01:15:50,570
This is the first time
1700
01:15:50,700 --> 01:15:54,970
I've really talked to people
about what he said.
1701
01:15:55,100 --> 01:15:57,130
- Some of the threats
that others have described
1702
01:15:57,266 --> 01:15:59,296
were pretty intimidating,
1703
01:15:59,433 --> 01:16:01,033
right,
threats to your career,
1704
01:16:01,166 --> 01:16:02,626
threats to your safety,
1705
01:16:02,767 --> 01:16:04,927
threats to your legacy
and perhaps even--
1706
01:16:05,066 --> 01:16:10,326
- Your entire family, your
entire family was at risk.
1707
01:16:10,467 --> 01:16:12,127
- So do you think he was
protecting you
1708
01:16:12,266 --> 01:16:15,166
from the secrets that he knew?
1709
01:16:15,300 --> 01:16:16,630
- Absolutely.
1710
01:16:16,767 --> 01:16:18,897
♪ ♪
1711
01:16:19,033 --> 01:16:21,973
- He said that the world
wasn't ready to know the truth
1712
01:16:22,100 --> 01:16:24,630
about what happened at Roswell,
1713
01:16:24,767 --> 01:16:27,697
and I asked him what he meant
by that, and he said,
1714
01:16:27,834 --> 01:16:31,974
"Well, it would cause
social upheaval and problems."
1715
01:16:32,100 --> 01:16:33,700
- Why?
- They weren't sure
1716
01:16:33,834 --> 01:16:38,774
whether the beings
were friendly or not.
1717
01:16:38,900 --> 01:16:40,530
Fishburne:
By the term "beings,"
1718
01:16:40,667 --> 01:16:41,967
she said she
understood her dad
1719
01:16:42,100 --> 01:16:44,500
was referring
to extraterrestrials,
1720
01:16:44,633 --> 01:16:47,033
the aliens who had
sent the spaceship
1721
01:16:47,166 --> 01:16:49,996
that crashed
at Roswell to Earth.
1722
01:16:50,133 --> 01:16:51,533
- Knowing your dad,
1723
01:16:51,667 --> 01:16:56,497
what do you think happened
at Roswell in 1947?
1724
01:16:56,633 --> 01:17:01,833
- Knowing my dad, if it was
nothing or a weather balloon,
1725
01:17:01,967 --> 01:17:06,797
he would've just said what it
was, and let's move on.
1726
01:17:06,934 --> 01:17:08,874
- Do you feel like
he had answers
1727
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,330
to who these
possible beings were,
1728
01:17:11,467 --> 01:17:14,367
where they came from
and what they wanted?
1729
01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:17,270
- I think he was full
of questions about them.
1730
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:19,270
♪ ♪
1731
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,230
I don't think he had come up
with all the answers
1732
01:17:22,367 --> 01:17:24,997
about what
they found at Roswell.
1733
01:17:25,133 --> 01:17:30,573
♪ ♪
1734
01:17:30,700 --> 01:17:34,070
Fishburne: Coming up, how
close has Ben Smith come
1735
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:35,600
to unlocking the secrets
1736
01:17:35,734 --> 01:17:38,204
of what really happened
at Roswell?
1737
01:17:38,333 --> 01:17:45,803
♪ ♪
1738
01:17:45,934 --> 01:17:48,804
[dramatic music]
1739
01:17:48,934 --> 01:17:55,904
♪ ♪
1740
01:17:57,467 --> 01:17:59,567
- I think a guy by the name
of Patrick Saunders
1741
01:17:59,700 --> 01:18:00,770
could've written
this journal.
1742
01:18:00,900 --> 01:18:02,270
- Wow.
- That actually got me
1743
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:04,170
pretty excited.
- That is interesting
1744
01:18:04,300 --> 01:18:05,930
because
it's a whole new person
1745
01:18:06,066 --> 01:18:07,726
to take a very close look at.
1746
01:18:07,867 --> 01:18:10,297
That opens up a whole other
sort of avenue, doesn't it?
1747
01:18:10,433 --> 01:18:11,933
- It really does.
1748
01:18:12,066 --> 01:18:12,966
Fishburne:
The real possibility
1749
01:18:13,100 --> 01:18:14,570
that one of Jesse Marcel's
1750
01:18:14,700 --> 01:18:17,630
fellow officers in the 509th,
Patrick Saunders,
1751
01:18:17,767 --> 01:18:20,797
wrote the journal that was
in Marcel's possession
1752
01:18:20,934 --> 01:18:24,834
is an incredible twist
in Ben Smith's investigation
1753
01:18:24,967 --> 01:18:26,967
of what happened at Roswell.
1754
01:18:27,100 --> 01:18:29,800
Now Smith wants to go
over the results
1755
01:18:29,934 --> 01:18:32,574
of his investigation
with Joe Pappalardo,
1756
01:18:32,700 --> 01:18:34,030
the veteran
aviation journalist
1757
01:18:34,166 --> 01:18:36,966
he has been consulting
with from the start.
1758
01:18:37,100 --> 01:18:39,430
- No explanation is going
to be complete
1759
01:18:39,567 --> 01:18:41,727
without a physical component,
probably.
1760
01:18:41,867 --> 01:18:43,427
Please tell me
you found a spaceship.
1761
01:18:43,567 --> 01:18:45,427
- Oh, dude,
I wish I could tell you
1762
01:18:45,567 --> 01:18:47,397
that I came back
with the smoking gun
1763
01:18:47,533 --> 01:18:49,603
to prove that it's definitely
a Mogul balloon
1764
01:18:49,734 --> 01:18:53,104
or it's definitely
an extraterrestrial spacecraft.
1765
01:18:53,233 --> 01:18:55,933
I haven't found anything
definitive either way,
1766
01:18:56,066 --> 01:18:58,326
and that is frustrating.
1767
01:18:58,467 --> 01:19:00,397
- Well, if it was easy,
it would be cracked by now,
1768
01:19:00,533 --> 01:19:04,703
so I'm eager to hear what
you actually have uncovered.
1769
01:19:04,834 --> 01:19:06,334
- Chuck Wade claimed that
he had a piece
1770
01:19:06,467 --> 01:19:08,467
of alien spacecraft.
1771
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,570
The lab unfortunately
could not find anything
1772
01:19:11,700 --> 01:19:13,530
extraterrestrial
about the metal.
1773
01:19:13,667 --> 01:19:15,067
For me,
it doesn't really impact
1774
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:16,500
the Roswell question
either way.
1775
01:19:16,633 --> 01:19:18,633
It was collected on
the Plains of San Agustin
1776
01:19:18,767 --> 01:19:21,527
some distance away,
except that it's a knock
1777
01:19:21,667 --> 01:19:25,067
against the established
evidence of ufologists.
1778
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:27,030
- So in terms of the probable
crash site,
1779
01:19:27,166 --> 01:19:29,966
I knew you were gonna bring
some pretty cool technology
1780
01:19:30,100 --> 01:19:31,430
to investigate that.
1781
01:19:31,567 --> 01:19:32,767
Did you find anything
that would lead you
1782
01:19:32,900 --> 01:19:34,500
to think that something
happened there?
1783
01:19:34,633 --> 01:19:36,833
- We found a pretty strange
magnetic signature
1784
01:19:36,967 --> 01:19:38,397
close to
what would've been described
1785
01:19:38,533 --> 01:19:40,973
as the impact identified
by witness accounts.
1786
01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:45,300
We took some soil samples,
but we couldn't actually find
1787
01:19:45,433 --> 01:19:48,473
when or why
this anomaly was created.
1788
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:51,870
We haven't found any evidence
that definitively proves
1789
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:54,000
something extraterrestrial
crashed here.
1790
01:19:54,133 --> 01:19:56,803
- Did you find anything
that would indicate
1791
01:19:56,934 --> 01:19:58,504
that something else crashed?
1792
01:19:58,633 --> 01:20:01,403
- To the south of the
established debris field,
1793
01:20:01,533 --> 01:20:03,373
the FAA
crash-site investigator
1794
01:20:03,500 --> 01:20:06,430
found a strange contrast
in data,
1795
01:20:06,567 --> 01:20:08,167
that we don't know
what it means.
1796
01:20:08,300 --> 01:20:09,830
It's not metal because
our magnetometer
1797
01:20:09,967 --> 01:20:12,127
didn't pick up any metal.
1798
01:20:12,266 --> 01:20:13,596
There might be something
1799
01:20:13,734 --> 01:20:16,904
that could be some kind
of plastic or neoprene layer.
1800
01:20:17,033 --> 01:20:20,133
- That would buttress
that argument
1801
01:20:20,266 --> 01:20:21,466
that a balloon crashed there,
1802
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:23,500
and here is an actual
physical remain from it.
1803
01:20:23,633 --> 01:20:25,833
That would be about
as close to a smoking gun
1804
01:20:25,967 --> 01:20:27,527
as something who doesn't
believe in UFOs,
1805
01:20:27,667 --> 01:20:30,367
like myself, would cling
to desperately, probably.
1806
01:20:30,500 --> 01:20:34,630
- Yeah. Well, a lot of the
facts are fuzzy still,
1807
01:20:34,767 --> 01:20:37,997
and I'm still trying to piece
the puzzle together,
1808
01:20:38,133 --> 01:20:40,133
but I feel confident
that the government lied
1809
01:20:40,266 --> 01:20:41,466
to the American people
1810
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:43,530
about what it collected
at that debris field.
1811
01:20:43,667 --> 01:20:47,667
There were others like Jesse
in that unit at the 509th group
1812
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:49,270
who had some of the same ideas.
1813
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:52,700
I've spent a lot of time now
with the Marcel family,
1814
01:20:52,834 --> 01:20:54,274
and I think at the very least,
1815
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:56,230
what they wanted
was vindication.
1816
01:20:56,367 --> 01:20:58,167
♪ ♪
1817
01:20:58,300 --> 01:21:00,070
Fishburne: Jesse Marcel's
three grandchildren
1818
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,400
have been eagerly
awaiting the results
1819
01:21:02,533 --> 01:21:04,033
of Ben Smith's investigation
1820
01:21:04,166 --> 01:21:06,526
and want to know
what he has found out
1821
01:21:06,667 --> 01:21:08,927
about the strange journal.
1822
01:21:09,066 --> 01:21:10,366
- Thank you, guys,
for making
1823
01:21:10,500 --> 01:21:12,300
yourselves
available to chat with me.
1824
01:21:12,433 --> 01:21:13,703
I wanted to circle back
with you
1825
01:21:13,834 --> 01:21:16,074
and share some interesting
turns in the case
1826
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:18,770
and some unexpected surprises.
1827
01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:20,370
There's one thing
that's still missing
1828
01:21:20,500 --> 01:21:22,270
from this investigation,
and that's evidence.
1829
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,230
- I mean, there's a piece
out there somewhere.
1830
01:21:25,367 --> 01:21:26,627
- Well, we didn't
find anything yet.
1831
01:21:26,767 --> 01:21:27,967
- Sure.
- Jesse, you were there
1832
01:21:28,100 --> 01:21:29,170
with me in Pennsylvania
1833
01:21:29,300 --> 01:21:31,400
when we went
to the codebreaker.
1834
01:21:31,533 --> 01:21:34,533
Without the key,
the other half of the puzzle,
1835
01:21:34,667 --> 01:21:36,867
we can't crack
that home-brew code,
1836
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:41,730
so what's left is to keep
looking for that other half,
1837
01:21:41,867 --> 01:21:44,297
but that makes
an interesting challenge
1838
01:21:44,433 --> 01:21:47,403
because we didn't know
who wrote it.
1839
01:21:47,533 --> 01:21:50,403
I refocused my efforts back
on the inner circle
1840
01:21:50,533 --> 01:21:53,303
at the 509th group
to see if I could identify
1841
01:21:53,433 --> 01:21:55,833
who might have
written the journal.
1842
01:21:55,967 --> 01:21:58,397
I collected a few more
handwriting samples.
1843
01:21:58,533 --> 01:22:02,503
There was one individual
who actually,
1844
01:22:02,633 --> 01:22:04,933
with the short sample
that we had,
1845
01:22:05,066 --> 01:22:08,466
matched to some degree
that we couldn't rule it out.
1846
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:10,470
- Ooh, interesting.
1847
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:14,530
- This would've been the base
adjutant at the 509th group--
1848
01:22:14,667 --> 01:22:17,267
- Okay.
- The second-in-command,
1849
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:18,770
a guy named Patrick Saunders.
1850
01:22:18,900 --> 01:22:21,270
He was really close
with Colonel Blanchard,
1851
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:22,970
so close, in fact,
1852
01:22:23,100 --> 01:22:26,000
that Colonel Blanchard was
his best man at his wedding.
1853
01:22:26,133 --> 01:22:27,833
- Oh, wow.
1854
01:22:27,967 --> 01:22:29,497
- For me as an
intelligence officer,
1855
01:22:29,633 --> 01:22:32,403
if I'm looking for somebody
with access to information,
1856
01:22:32,533 --> 01:22:34,103
this guy
is as close as it gets.
1857
01:22:34,233 --> 01:22:36,503
- Wow.
- That's very exciting.
1858
01:22:38,834 --> 01:22:41,874
- Did your grandfather ever
mention that name to you?
1859
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,330
- I don't recall that name
coming from him.
1860
01:22:44,467 --> 01:22:47,127
- Obviously, they had
a relationship for Grandpa
1861
01:22:47,266 --> 01:22:49,596
to have ended up
with that journal.
1862
01:22:49,734 --> 01:22:53,334
- I was able to track down
his children.
1863
01:22:53,467 --> 01:22:54,997
A lot of the things
Patrick Saunders
1864
01:22:55,133 --> 01:22:58,673
told his children matched
what Jesse Sr.
1865
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:03,030
told you three, that it was
something not of this world.
1866
01:23:03,166 --> 01:23:06,366
And there was a cover-up.
- No kidding.
1867
01:23:06,500 --> 01:23:09,200
- And he even mentioned that
he was directly responsible
1868
01:23:09,333 --> 01:23:14,503
for organizing the cover-up
by changing the names
1869
01:23:14,633 --> 01:23:16,073
and the personnel records
of people
1870
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:18,470
involved in the cleanup effort
at the debris field.
1871
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,000
- Oh, my gosh.
1872
01:23:20,133 --> 01:23:22,073
- Another echo in Patrick
Saunders' story with his family
1873
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:26,030
is he said almost the exact
same things verbatim:
1874
01:23:26,166 --> 01:23:28,666
"The world isn't ready
for this kind of information."
1875
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:29,900
- Oh, yeah.
1876
01:23:30,033 --> 01:23:31,903
- And, Denice, you were
with me in Houma.
1877
01:23:32,033 --> 01:23:33,503
Your cousin mentioned
the same thing.
1878
01:23:33,633 --> 01:23:37,733
- Yep, exact same words.
- His eyes kind of glazed over,
1879
01:23:37,867 --> 01:23:39,197
and he said,
1880
01:23:39,333 --> 01:23:42,173
"There are things that
this world is not ready for."
1881
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:45,670
- I wonder if they discussed
it to come up with almost,
1882
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,000
like, the same terminology.
1883
01:23:48,133 --> 01:23:50,873
This is just so completely
amazing. [laughs]
1884
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:52,400
- I think you're closer
to the truth
1885
01:23:52,533 --> 01:23:54,933
now than we've ever been
or anybody's ever been.
1886
01:23:55,066 --> 01:23:56,396
- Sounds like it.
1887
01:23:56,533 --> 01:23:59,833
- Another interesting comment
Patrick Saunders made
1888
01:23:59,967 --> 01:24:02,797
was actually about Jesse Sr.
1889
01:24:02,934 --> 01:24:05,934
He thought that Jesse
had gone too far,
1890
01:24:06,066 --> 01:24:07,496
that he had said
something he shouldn't.
1891
01:24:07,633 --> 01:24:09,173
He had told
the public too much.
1892
01:24:09,300 --> 01:24:11,830
- When Grandpa came out
in 1978
1893
01:24:11,967 --> 01:24:13,867
and told the story
about what had happened,
1894
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:16,630
I wonder if that worried him
a little bit
1895
01:24:16,767 --> 01:24:18,067
because I know
it would worry me
1896
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:19,570
if I was trying
to keep something covered up,
1897
01:24:19,700 --> 01:24:21,570
and this man just came out
and said,
1898
01:24:21,700 --> 01:24:24,600
"No. What everybody saw
wasn't something from here."
1899
01:24:24,734 --> 01:24:26,304
- Yeah. The duty to keep quiet
1900
01:24:26,433 --> 01:24:27,973
is a pretty powerful
commitment.
1901
01:24:28,100 --> 01:24:30,330
- I think he was courageous
for coming out and telling it
1902
01:24:30,467 --> 01:24:32,597
because he was going
against the protocol.
1903
01:24:32,734 --> 01:24:34,234
He felt that
everybody deserved
1904
01:24:34,367 --> 01:24:35,897
to know what the truth was
1905
01:24:36,033 --> 01:24:38,403
and that the cover-up
needed to end.
1906
01:24:38,533 --> 01:24:39,703
- Mm-hmm.
1907
01:24:39,834 --> 01:24:42,534
♪ ♪
1908
01:24:42,667 --> 01:24:44,727
You know, we started
this journey together
1909
01:24:44,867 --> 01:24:47,497
trying to figure out
the journal
1910
01:24:47,633 --> 01:24:49,103
and to prove with evidence
1911
01:24:49,233 --> 01:24:51,133
that your grandfather
was telling the truth.
1912
01:24:51,266 --> 01:24:54,766
Now, we didn't quite get
to either of those ends.
1913
01:24:54,900 --> 01:24:56,670
How do you feel about
this investigation,
1914
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,230
and what does it tell you
about your grandfather?
1915
01:24:59,367 --> 01:25:01,397
- If anything, you've added
1916
01:25:01,533 --> 01:25:03,803
more credibility
to those stories,
1917
01:25:03,934 --> 01:25:06,234
and I think we're
getting closer than ever
1918
01:25:06,367 --> 01:25:08,167
to resolving this.
1919
01:25:08,300 --> 01:25:09,530
- I'll just echo that.
1920
01:25:09,667 --> 01:25:13,867
I think that everything
that you've come across
1921
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:17,070
has actually more or less
confirmed for me
1922
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:20,330
that Grandpa and our dad
were telling us the truth
1923
01:25:20,467 --> 01:25:21,997
and that they did want
everybody to know
1924
01:25:22,133 --> 01:25:23,903
what really did happen.
1925
01:25:24,033 --> 01:25:26,133
- I looked at the journal
recently, and I found a quote
1926
01:25:26,266 --> 01:25:28,396
that really captures
sort of the investigation,
1927
01:25:28,533 --> 01:25:29,833
and the quote was,
1928
01:25:29,967 --> 01:25:32,667
"Keep your eye on the doughnut
and not the hole."
1929
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:35,600
If we just focus
on the lack of evidence,
1930
01:25:35,734 --> 01:25:38,134
the hole in the center,
1931
01:25:38,266 --> 01:25:41,596
we miss all the evidence
that we have found.
1932
01:25:41,734 --> 01:25:47,034
I think that this journal
has more secrets to give,
1933
01:25:47,166 --> 01:25:51,796
more evidence to point me to
than what I've found so far,
1934
01:25:51,934 --> 01:25:54,934
and I'm reluctant
to simply put it away.
1935
01:25:55,066 --> 01:26:00,626
♪ ♪
1936
01:26:00,767 --> 01:26:02,197
Fishburne:
To some, Jesse Marcel
1937
01:26:02,333 --> 01:26:05,003
is a courageous truth sayer.
1938
01:26:05,133 --> 01:26:07,773
To others, a man
who let his imagination
1939
01:26:07,900 --> 01:26:09,830
get the best of him.
1940
01:26:09,967 --> 01:26:11,927
Either way, he believed
1941
01:26:12,066 --> 01:26:15,426
he'd witnessed
an extraordinary event,
1942
01:26:15,567 --> 01:26:17,667
and he was not alone.
1943
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:19,770
I'm Laurence Fishburne,
1944
01:26:19,900 --> 01:26:24,430
thank you for watching
"History's Greatest Mysteries".
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