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1
00:00:00,165 --> 00:00:01,604
..things that made her HER.
2
00:00:02,445 --> 00:00:04,607
They want to switch
off her machines,
3
00:00:04,686 --> 00:00:06,070
and we want to keep them on.
4
00:00:06,095 --> 00:00:08,583
They say she's in a lot of
pain! She is still your child!
5
00:00:08,609 --> 00:00:10,401
Yes! Yes, she is!
6
00:00:10,426 --> 00:00:12,159
So you just left her and me?
7
00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,199
That makes it sound
like I abandoned you.
8
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,759
Yeah, cos you did.
9
00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,759
However you feel about what your
parents are doing, it's not about
10
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:21,999
picking sides.
Of course it is.
11
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,839
And I'm on Marnie's side.
12
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,759
We believe we can suggest a bias in
the treatment Marnie has received
13
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:28,319
from Samantha Woodham.
14
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:29,685
She perforated an artery.
15
00:00:29,710 --> 00:00:31,999
It sounds pretty deadly to me.
16
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,239
Marnie, she's complicated.
17
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,039
But... you know, she's,
er, she's joyous.
18
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:39,799
I really miss you.
19
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,157
Do you think you'll win, Nicci?
Any change in her condition?
20
00:00:42,181 --> 00:00:43,690
Can I just go and
see my daughter?
21
00:00:45,727 --> 00:00:47,284
Can't we do better than this?
22
00:00:48,286 --> 00:00:51,883
This programme contains some strong language and
some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting
23
00:00:51,907 --> 00:00:55,351
BABY GURGLES Yeah!
You like that, do you?
24
00:00:55,376 --> 00:00:56,976
HE CHUCKLES
25
00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,887
Hey.
26
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,079
She finds wallpaper funny.
27
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,239
Does she? Are you
sure that's OK?
28
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:06,719
The steam and...
29
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,559
Ah, I think it's fine.
30
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,559
Yeah? Yeah.
31
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,359
Should have probably done
it before she got here.
32
00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:14,679
She loves it.
33
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,719
Look at that smile. I was
thinking maybe a picnic.
34
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,839
Ah, it's a bit cold.
35
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,319
Yeah, we'll just wrap up,
won't we? We'll wrap up.
36
00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:26,199
You going to make sandwiches?
37
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,479
I'm not going to make
sandwiches, sexist!
38
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,199
We'll buy sandwiches. Ah.
39
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,319
I'll get you a sausage
roll if you're lucky.
40
00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:36,399
Oh, I'm in! THEY LAUGH
41
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,319
BABY GURGLES Ah! She
finds that funny too.
42
00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:42,320
Ah, no, no! Ah!
43
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,559
RADIO: factors at play
44
00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,599
when the life of a
young child is at stake.
45
00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,719
Looking at the
papers this morning,
46
00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:06,999
this makes the front page
47
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,360
on nearly every single...
48
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:14,439
ANDREW SIGHS
49
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,159
Ready?
50
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:17,200
Yeah.
51
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,240
It's going to be
OK. Yeah, yeah.
52
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,520
Mint? Ah, I just
brushed my teeth.
53
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,560
You need a mint, mate.
54
00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,080
You keep them.
55
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,799
Nicci! Nicci! Nicci! Nicci!
56
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,959
REPORTERS CLAMOUR
57
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,760
We're just going to go straight
in, thank you very much.
58
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:27,519
Pre-match huddle?
59
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,399
Yeah. OK.
60
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,119
A rundown of who's here.
61
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,799
Francesca Camara, representing the
hospital and Dr Samantha Woodham.
62
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,879
She's very good. Beatrice
Shrigley, working with
63
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,119
Greg Richardson and the Children
and Family Legal Services team.
64
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,959
Representing Marnie. Yeah,
we met Mr Richardson.
65
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:45,359
Good lawyers, but so are we.
66
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,680
We're going to save
Marnie's life, Mrs Lloyd.
67
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,040
We're going to do something
special here today.
68
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:57,440
Yeah, good.
69
00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,159
How long have you been
Marnie's paediatric consultant?
70
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,079
I have observed Marnie in
PICU for close to seven years.
71
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,119
She's a patient
I know very well.
72
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,520
And will you tell us what you think
the best treatment is for her now?
73
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,279
I am sorry to say that I think
we should stop all treatments.
74
00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:26,279
I believe the life-sustaining
treatments we are currently
75
00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:30,439
giving are causing her to suffer
without any prospect of helping her.
76
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,519
How would you describe Marnie's
current interaction with the world?
77
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,999
She will never, in
my medical opinion,
78
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,519
leave ventilated
breathing support.
79
00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,999
She shows little
response to stimuli
80
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,159
and her brain scans show
irreversible damage.
81
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,079
So her conscious experience?
82
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:48,319
In my judgment,
83
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,000
right now, she has very little,
if any, conscious experience.
84
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,760
No further questions.
85
00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,479
How many children have
you treated like Marnie?
86
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,679
No case is alike,
but I have treated
87
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,079
maybe 20 or 25 children with
severe muscular dystrophy.
88
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,199
How many end up in a situation
where, in your opinion,
89
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,279
treatment can no
longer be of use?
90
00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:23,519
I couldn't tell
you that exactly.
91
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,200
How many have died in your care?
92
00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,359
Six.
93
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,119
The deterioration in each case
was similar to what we've seen
94
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,199
with Marnie?
95
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,759
No cases are alike. And Marnie's
specific condition is unique.
96
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,359
In fact, as you say, it
is as yet undiagnosed.
97
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,279
As happens frequently with
neuromuscular disorders.
98
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:46,999
But as it is undiagnosed,
how can you be 100% sure that
99
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,719
continuing treatment is futile?
100
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,399
I am as certain as I can be.
101
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:53,759
And if I were to tell you
102
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,680
that there are doctors who
believe they can treat Marnie?
103
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,759
Marnie's conscious experience,
another complicated area, is it not?
104
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,119
Yes.
105
00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,719
Have there been examples,
106
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,039
to your knowledge, of children with
severe brain damage who recover?
107
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,279
I do not believe it is
likely there will be any
108
00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:15,279
miracle improvement.
109
00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:18,159
Of course, you must
have your beliefs.
110
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,480
Let us discuss pain.
111
00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,279
Ventilation itself
isn't painful, is it?
112
00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:26,839
No, but suctioning
is very unpleasant.
113
00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:28,199
And how often does that happen?
114
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:29,559
Several times a day.
115
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,839
And if Marnie has very little,
if any, conscious experience,
116
00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:35,999
in your opinion, how
would she feel pain
117
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,639
in these isolated
suctioning incidents?
118
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,879
There are autonomic
responses from Marnie
119
00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,199
that do, I'm afraid,
suggest pain.
120
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,599
You cannot have it
both ways, Dr Woodham.
121
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,159
Either she doesn't have
a conscious experience,
122
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,839
in which case she isn't
in pain, or she does.
123
00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:53,959
You're wrong.
124
00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,879
We have seen a series of
reactions, from spasms to
125
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,719
changing heart rates, which do
suggest that while her conscious
126
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,520
experience is extremely limited,
her pain response is still there.
127
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,919
Let me take you back
to 2016, if that's OK?
128
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,199
Sure.
129
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,359
May 24th.
130
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,559
Marnie presented
with an infection.
131
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,999
Yes. Um, I would need
to consult my notes.
132
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,239
You had to put in a
central venous catheter.
133
00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:32,680
A central line.
134
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,759
Yes. And it went wrong.
135
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,879
You perforated an artery.
136
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,519
Which led to distal
ischemia. Yes.
137
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,559
You needed to call in a vascular
surgeon to repair the damage.
138
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,479
This incident was referred up to the
consultants' group and it was seen
139
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,639
to be an unfortunate complication of
a competently performed procedure.
140
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,359
"Competently performed"?
141
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,919
How can something be
"competently performed"
142
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,759
when it almost
leads to ischemia?
143
00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,080
That is what they concluded.
144
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:05,600
We are human beings.
145
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,799
And... I am sorry it happened...
146
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,080
..and I am grateful there was no
damage to Marnie in the long term.
147
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,680
What do you know of unconscious
bias in the medical profession?
148
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,559
Well, it's something that
we're all concerned with.
149
00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,599
A doctor in a raft is
told only seven people can
150
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,239
survive on the
rations they have.
151
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,599
He has to make a decision
as to who to save.
152
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,559
He or she. I do beg
your pardon, Dr Woodham.
153
00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:39,839
How does he or she
make the judgment?
154
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,159
We do not ration
care in this country.
155
00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,639
You're denying that during Covid
there was rationing of care
156
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,879
for disabled people? There
was a prioritisation.
157
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,720
Who do you prioritise?
158
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,799
Now, we happen to have
some correspondence
159
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,999
that was passed to us
at very late notice.
160
00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,199
My Lady!
161
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,639
I apologise enormously, My
Lady. It was this morning.
162
00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,759
I emailed the court as
soon as I received it.
163
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,680
I received no email.
164
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,080
Do you have copies for
the others? Yes, My Lady.
165
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,079
My Lady, we have no means
of verifying this document.
166
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,920
We can ask the witness.
167
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,680
Did this email come from you?
168
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,640
How did you get this?
169
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,399
Yes.
170
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,439
Then I'll allow it.
171
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,039
This is a correspondence between
you and a bed manager about
172
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,719
how to move people out of PICU in
preparation for the Covid outbreak.
173
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,679
Dated February 2020.
174
00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:57,279
They ask you what they should
do about bed 16 and you reply,
175
00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,199
"Bed 16 shouldn't be there,
176
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,599
"the parents have been clinging
to hope without there being any."
177
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,999
I was expressing
a medical opinion.
178
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,200
I... regret how it sounds.
179
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,319
Do you believe that sometimes, for
patients, as a doctor, that the best
180
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,599
thing to do is to let them die?
181
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,279
That was another child and
another set of circumstances.
182
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,239
It was a busy time.
183
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:24,760
Lots of people to save?
184
00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:27,759
Yes.
185
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,519
How irritating,
then, to have a bed
186
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,079
taken up with this disabled
child which determined parents
187
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,639
are there to protect.
188
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,719
I do think the sanctity
of life is important.
189
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,479
But sometimes, as doctors, we're
unable to preserve a meaningful
190
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,559
life, and in that case it is
cruel to prolong the dying process
191
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,999
with treatments that
do not benefit them.
192
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,279
Where is that stated? Is that in the
good medical practice guidelines,
193
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:54,919
as laid out by the GMC?
194
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:56,199
My Lady!
195
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,759
Mr Frederick, your questioning
here is inappropriate,
196
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,999
as I believe you're well aware.
197
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,519
Dr Woodham, you do not need to
answer but you may if you wish.
198
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,120
Mm.
199
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:14,760
Marnie is in pain.
200
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,239
She's unable to communicate,
201
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,200
and I am no longer helping her.
202
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,080
I am just prolonging her death.
203
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,679
When the other doctors
decided that you had had
204
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:36,879
an unfortunate complication
in perforating Marnie's artery
205
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,679
and almost leaving her
with another disability,
206
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:42,479
on what grounds did they do so?
207
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:43,879
Sorry?
208
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,440
On what grounds did they
make their judgment on you?
209
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,519
The grounds of, um...
210
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:54,879
I'm sorry, I...
211
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,199
They gave you the benefit
of the doubt, Dr Woodham.
212
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,519
Just as you have failed to give
Marnie the benefit of the doubt.
213
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,359
No. In fact, and instead,
what Marnie has faced
214
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,759
every day in your care is your
prejudice that this little girl
215
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,519
and her little life are taking
up space in your precious PICU.
216
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:13,920
No.
217
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,079
I am sorry that you're
getting emotional.
218
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:23,839
That was not my intention.
219
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,280
But there is, of course, a lot
of emotion attached to this case.
220
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:34,839
She is my patient and I have
always given her the finest care.
221
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:36,440
In your opinion.
222
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,640
No further questions.
223
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:47,439
You doing OK?
224
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,559
Great.
225
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,160
You've had no further trouble?
226
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,000
I'm fine.
227
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,119
That was a good morning for us.
228
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,560
I'm sure it feels like that.
229
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,800
PHONE BUZZES
230
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,399
Hey.
231
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,519
Hey there.
232
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,119
Mind if I...?
233
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,920
Uh, no. Not at all.
234
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:44,799
Is it allowed?
235
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,160
It's allowed.
236
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:53,039
How do you think it's
going? Honestly? Yeah.
237
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,599
Horribly.
238
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,599
These things are usually...
239
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,200
..not collegiate, but there's
a certain level of respect.
240
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,040
However this turns out,
look after yourself, OK?
241
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,959
Ah, yeah, it's
just an egg stain.
242
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,479
Sorry?
243
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,200
On the tie. It's
just an egg stain.
244
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,159
I know what drinking looks like.
245
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:25,920
I know what drinking
smells like.
246
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,839
Have you got any lunch?
247
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:33,320
Er, no.
248
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,199
OK. I can get some more.
249
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,440
What? No, no, no, no.
You can, and you will.
250
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,960
My favourite flavour.
Cheese and onion.
251
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,120
My favourite. Good.
252
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,799
Mr Lloyd.
253
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,040
Would you consent to a
few questions from me?
254
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,319
I've... CLEARS THROAT
255
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,759
I've nothing to
hide. Thank you.
256
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,919
Your wife gave up her job
when Marnie was diagnosed?
257
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,999
And I'm very grateful for that.
258
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,359
Rather she kept herself
focused on Marnie.
259
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,399
Well, her job wasn't
very understanding.
260
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,639
You kept working?
261
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,839
Yes. Uh, we needed the money.
262
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,879
Do you remember who was earning
more when Marnie was born?
263
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,479
Your wife or yourself?
264
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,599
Er, she was.
265
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,239
So, a better economic decision
might have been for you to give up
266
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,880
your job and for your
wife to keep on going.
267
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,079
You're right.
268
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,040
Can you explain why, then, you
were the one to keep your job?
269
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,759
To be honest, the
question wasn't asked.
270
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,799
What sort of hours do
you work, Mr Lloyd?
271
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,959
9.30 till 6.00 most days.
272
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,599
And your business, accountancy,
has grown since Marnie was born?
273
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:03,799
Yes.
274
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,520
So, occasionally you have meetings
in the evenings, at weekends?
275
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,959
I... have always... um...
276
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,999
..have made a lot of
time for my family.
277
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,519
So any suggestion you've
buried yourself in work...
278
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,799
My Lady! I am not here to
represent Mr Lloyd, but as he's
279
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,599
representing himself and perhaps
unused to the court situation,
280
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,159
I do feel obliged to say
these questions do feel
281
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,999
unnecessarily intrusive.
282
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,440
Agreed.
283
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,360
Would you consider yourself
a good father, Andrew?
284
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,319
I'd hope... that I'm a good dad.
285
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,079
I don't believe this line
of questioning is fruitful.
286
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,839
I'm not going to be helped by
intrusive questions of Mr Lloyd.
287
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,439
If you have any questions
about Marnie's quality of life,
288
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,879
please ask them.
Apologies, My Lady.
289
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,519
I'm not looking to be intrusive,
just drawing a picture
290
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,839
as to the family
dynamic, so as to
291
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,319
get a... a better sense of who might
best represent Marnie's interests.
292
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,039
Mr Frederick, I have no doubt that
everyone involved in this case
293
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,559
firmly believes that they are
294
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,280
putting Marnie's best interests
first. It's not a competition.
295
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,359
Parenting a child with Marnie's
needs must be extremely trying.
296
00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:29,959
There are difficulties
but, er...
297
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,479
..immense pleasures, too.
298
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,879
She's a beautiful girl.
299
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,560
Has the pressure
ever overwhelmed you?
300
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:40,959
Frequently.
301
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,639
There have been moments
302
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,119
when you have made mistakes
looking after her, haven't there?
303
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:50,639
The time that Marnie was left
alone with her temperature rising
304
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,440
while you were in
your garden, drinking.
305
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,799
Um...
306
00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,639
I had...
307
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,679
I had a couple of beers, sure,
308
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,639
but I had the monitor with me
and I couldn't anticipate...
309
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,800
Was it a COUPLE of beers?
310
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,240
I... Um...
311
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,159
Perhaps four or five.
312
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,040
Were there drugs involved?
313
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,119
Maybe I'd smoked some
weed. I do occasionally.
314
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,839
It doesn't impact my judgment.
315
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,799
To be clear, at that moment
she required hospitalisation.
316
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,599
I...
317
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,280
I think we've both made
mistakes, haven't we, Nicci?
318
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,959
Is this another
mistake, Mr Lloyd?
319
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,399
You're aware that if you do
this, there is no coming back?
320
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,439
Am I aware that my
daughter will be dead?
321
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,480
Yes. I'm... aware of that.
322
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,240
I don't want to make
this decision. I...
323
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:57,560
I just... um...
324
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,240
I feel obliged to.
325
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,040
No further questions.
326
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,799
Where does that
obligation come from?
327
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,760
The obligation to
make that decision?
328
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,640
I looked at her and, um...
329
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,080
..I, um...
330
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:35,839
It's a difficult thing,
watching your child in pain,
331
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,559
especially when you believe
she won't get better.
332
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,199
That is supposition on the
basis of no medical training.
333
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,279
But I have studied. My wife and
I both have. We're specialists.
334
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,279
You know, I believe one thing
and she believes another, and
335
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:53,320
I believe that hers is on the basis
of a wish that I wish I shared.
336
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,080
The obligation comes from love.
337
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,759
And if that doesn't sound...
338
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,080
Well, look, I don't
really care how it sounds.
339
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,640
No further questions.
340
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,959
Uh, I'm going to catch
the bus home, OK?
341
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,119
Oh. Well, Grandad was
going to give us a lift.
342
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,707
Er, yeah, I'm going
to catch the bus.
343
00:20:32,732 --> 00:20:34,771
Just need some space.
344
00:20:34,819 --> 00:20:36,499
OK.
345
00:20:50,369 --> 00:20:53,175
I'm so sorry this is so late
in the day. Oh, that's OK.
346
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,679
I'm just pleased to finally
be getting to talk to you.
347
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,307
I think I can help you.
348
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:00,679
Great.
349
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,559
So, what's your opinion on
what's best now, for Marnie?
350
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,244
Marnie needs time. We
need to be able to chart
351
00:21:08,269 --> 00:21:11,719
whether any recovery from the
hypoxic brain damage is possible.
352
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,222
We need to see what treatment
might be best for her condition.
353
00:21:15,247 --> 00:21:18,901
So, I say we give her that time
and get her tracheostomised
354
00:21:18,926 --> 00:21:20,520
and supported.
355
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,879
Medicine's an
observational sport.
356
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,999
Too many give up on that
observation too quickly.
357
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,159
There are many that believe
that risdiplam might have
358
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,599
an impact across a spectrum
of neuromuscular disorders.
359
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,199
Yeah, I said...
I said the same.
360
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,839
And the important thing from
the court's perspective is not
361
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,619
that such a thing is probable,
but that it's possible.
362
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,559
But you've had success
with children like Marnie?
363
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,879
Mrs Lloyd, I've had success
with all kinds of children
364
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,880
that medical science would
otherwise have discarded.
365
00:22:04,492 --> 00:22:06,011
What's in the picnic basket?
366
00:22:06,036 --> 00:22:08,648
I don't know yet,
cos it's in the shop.
367
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,680
Got it.
368
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,400
CAR ENGINE STARTS
369
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,639
You look like a fucking statue.
370
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,279
Yeah.
371
00:22:39,580 --> 00:22:40,860
You want to talk about it?
372
00:22:48,473 --> 00:22:50,153
I had...
373
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,199
I had thoughts. I had
thoughts things...
374
00:22:55,633 --> 00:22:57,607
..would be easier without her.
375
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,399
I had those thoughts.
376
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,302
Of course you did. You knew
how hard it was with me.
377
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,599
No. That's not true.
378
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,679
I loved being your big brother.
379
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,160
I quite liked being
your little brother.
380
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:36,200
MUSIC: Animal Nitrate by Suede
381
00:23:36,763 --> 00:23:38,817
Er, right now it isn't,
but drug use changes
382
00:23:38,842 --> 00:23:39,768
all the time.
383
00:23:39,793 --> 00:23:41,999
We're not here to guess as to
what treatments might work.
384
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,719
I agree. Please refrain from
guesswork, Dr Pankerman.
385
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,239
We're here to establish facts.
386
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,839
My point is not that
a cure is available,
387
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,971
my point is that it
might be available.
388
00:23:51,996 --> 00:23:55,475
We will investigate and
make cases for treatments.
389
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,500
And while we do so,
we'll keep Marnie alive.
390
00:24:00,313 --> 00:24:01,961
No further questions.
391
00:24:07,528 --> 00:24:10,047
Talk me through your
qualifications in PICU.
392
00:24:10,072 --> 00:24:11,399
15 years qualified.
393
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,319
I'm an attending physician
that works mainly in neurology.
394
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:15,959
Sorry, you misunderstand me.
395
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,843
I know it's another country's
medical system, so it's complicated,
396
00:24:19,868 --> 00:24:24,762
but paediatric medicine, what
is your specialism there?
397
00:24:24,787 --> 00:24:29,306
Unlike Dr Woodham, who is a
generalist, I'm a neurologist.
398
00:24:29,331 --> 00:24:31,010
I work with all ages.
399
00:24:31,035 --> 00:24:32,714
I can understand the brain.
400
00:24:32,739 --> 00:24:34,498
Have you examined
Marnie's brain?
401
00:24:34,523 --> 00:24:36,159
I haven't been to
examine her face-to-face
402
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,719
but I have looked at the scans.
403
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,289
So this is just an opinion
based on no direct examination?
404
00:24:42,314 --> 00:24:46,399
Your medical system has prevented
me from examining Marnie.
405
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,999
As such, my opinion
is provisional.
406
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,382
It is far from categoric but I
do think the possibility exists.
407
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,599
To be clear to the court, a second
opinion was sought and given.
408
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,199
The consultant asked a friend
of hers from a neighbouring
409
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,839
hospital to examine the girl.
410
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,999
Unsurprisingly, she agreed
with the consultant.
411
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,759
Are you claiming that
Professor Bradbury
412
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,359
has not complied with
her duty to the court?
413
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:10,799
That's an extremely
serious allegation to make.
414
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,679
What is your evidence for it?
415
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,879
No, I'm not saying that,
I'm just saying that often
416
00:25:16,106 --> 00:25:19,135
colleagues support each other.
417
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,599
Tell me, you have appeared in
other proceedings concerning
418
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,879
medical treatment for
minors, have you not?
419
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,444
Yes. How many cases where
there is a decision to be made
420
00:25:28,469 --> 00:25:30,508
about the future
care of a child?
421
00:25:30,533 --> 00:25:32,359
I don't know, maybe three.
422
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,559
Well, this was just a
simple Google search.
423
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,959
We found evidence of you
contributing to seven trials
424
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,439
on this basis. Why
do you think that is?
425
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,759
I'm happy to help.
426
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,159
To go against the establishment.
Not many are, in my profession.
427
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,119
A bit of aggression from
them helps us, to be honest.
428
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,799
What did you recommend,
429
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,600
in all those cases,
for the child involved?
430
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,395
Have you ever recommended
that ventilation should cease?
431
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,320
No.
432
00:26:07,740 --> 00:26:09,580
I found evidence
they should live.
433
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:13,460
No further questions.
434
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,362
KATIE: Hey.
435
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,279
I followed you.
436
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,079
Oh.
437
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,159
Well, that's kids for you.
438
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,759
One day they don't want to know,
439
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,879
next day they're
following you to church.
440
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,279
Go ahead, Mum. Pray.
I'm just... just here.
441
00:27:16,766 --> 00:27:18,126
No, it's OK.
442
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,039
Maybe you'll have a thunderbolt
moment and start believing in God.
443
00:27:23,140 --> 00:27:26,841
Yeah? Maybe I can be saved.
444
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,879
You know they're only doing what
they need to do to win this?
445
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,199
Yeah, I understand that.
446
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,799
I mean, what they're doing,
they're... Dad doesn't...
447
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,360
Mum... that's not my problem.
448
00:27:42,039 --> 00:27:44,307
Was he the best they could do?
449
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,359
SHE SIGHS
450
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,080
I thought...
451
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,879
Would you trust him with Marnie?
452
00:28:01,893 --> 00:28:03,453
No.
453
00:28:10,539 --> 00:28:12,887
I don't think she'd want this.
454
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,319
Sorry.
455
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,960
I don't.
456
00:28:21,706 --> 00:28:23,226
You're a brave girl.
457
00:28:24,646 --> 00:28:26,246
You're always so brave.
458
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,079
Mrs Lloyd,
459
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,136
tell me why you oppose the
hospital in this action.
460
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,199
Because I believe my
daughter should live.
461
00:28:42,366 --> 00:28:44,314
Even though she's in pain?
462
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,679
I don't believe that.
463
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,239
You've seen the reports.
You've been present
464
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,740
at Marnie being suctioned,
where it's claimed a clear pain
465
00:28:52,765 --> 00:28:54,164
response has been present.
466
00:28:54,189 --> 00:28:55,548
I've never seen that pain.
467
00:28:55,573 --> 00:28:58,257
My Lady... If I'd
have seen that pain...
468
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,595
..we wouldn't be here now.
469
00:29:00,620 --> 00:29:03,281
I believe we can allow
Mrs Lloyd to have her own
470
00:29:03,306 --> 00:29:04,599
version of events, counsel.
471
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,320
Why do you think the
hospital disagrees with you?
472
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,520
Um...
473
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,121
Er, that's a big question.
474
00:29:22,146 --> 00:29:23,546
Take your time.
475
00:29:26,852 --> 00:29:28,972
I can't... um...
476
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:37,868
I can't tell you the amount of
times that you are encouraged,
477
00:29:37,893 --> 00:29:39,988
as a parent of a disabled child,
478
00:29:40,013 --> 00:29:41,413
to just...
479
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,039
..to just give up.
480
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,799
We had it all through
this... pandemic.
481
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,639
I had friends told that their
kids wouldn't get machines.
482
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,951
And I always knew I had to keep
Marnie safe because if she did get
483
00:29:58,976 --> 00:30:04,610
the damn thing, I didn't know that
she would survive it because...
484
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,775
..I didn't know that she
would get the help...
485
00:30:09,553 --> 00:30:10,993
..to survive.
486
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,439
And then we made it out
the other side and...
487
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,960
..and suddenly...
488
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,982
My point is that, um...
489
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,570
..people say that they care
about disabled people, but...
490
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,859
..always, all the time...
491
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,040
..I see different.
492
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,279
Marnie's my, er...
493
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:49,054
Marnie's my beautiful child and
it's an honour to be her mother.
494
00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:52,229
So I've learned to
put my shoulder down.
495
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,120
I just put my shoulder
down and I just...
496
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,400
..I just keep charging.
497
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,480
Ready?
498
00:31:43,113 --> 00:31:44,931
You know what you used
to say to me any time
499
00:31:44,956 --> 00:31:48,246
I had something
difficult to do? No.
500
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,799
Mum would tell me to try
to be brave. You told me
501
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,639
I didn't need to try,
I was already brave.
502
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,479
Well, I'm not you.
503
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,159
You want me to come?
504
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,888
You don't like crowds.
505
00:31:59,913 --> 00:32:02,115
I will, though,
if you want me to.
506
00:32:05,706 --> 00:32:07,426
I can do this on my own.
507
00:32:37,940 --> 00:32:39,820
Are you all right? Yeah.
508
00:32:43,738 --> 00:32:45,626
Hi. Hi.
509
00:32:45,651 --> 00:32:47,701
I like the smart threads.
510
00:32:47,726 --> 00:32:48,766
New?
511
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,914
Yeah, well... ish.
512
00:32:52,439 --> 00:32:54,439
We're here for you both.
513
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,480
Yeah. Well, we better go in.
514
00:33:19,092 --> 00:33:20,612
All rise.
515
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,279
These cases are
clearly never easy.
516
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,025
This case particularly so.
517
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,919
I recognise that the strong
presumption in favour
518
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,159
of a course of action
that will prolong life
519
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,199
is not an irrebuttable one.
520
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,669
It reflects the position that
life, as precious as it is,
521
00:33:58,694 --> 00:34:00,599
cannot be, and
indeed should not be
522
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,866
preserved at all costs in the
face of its natural conclusion.
523
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,319
But equally I recognise that
524
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,599
Marnie Lloyd is clearly
an exceptional, bright,
525
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,599
happy and well-loved child.
526
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,839
And it is plain from Dr Woodham's
evidence, and the evidence
527
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,039
given by Mr and Mrs Lloyd,
that Marnie's parents have been
528
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,639
doughty defenders of their
daughter's best interests
529
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,183
over many years, to
her undoubted benefit.
530
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,439
The position
adopted by Mrs Lloyd
531
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,675
before the court is
eminently reasonable
532
00:34:35,700 --> 00:34:38,415
and wholly understandable.
533
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:43,039
It represents a continuation
of the love and dedication
534
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,751
that she and her family have shown
to Marnie throughout her life.
535
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:54,775
This is a case of huge complication
and immense difficulty.
536
00:34:55,024 --> 00:34:57,943
I'm going to break my
thinking into four areas.
537
00:34:57,968 --> 00:35:01,227
HE BREATHES RAGGEDLY So we
begin with the evidence...
538
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,479
It's a panic attack. It'll pass.
539
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,319
GASPING: It's just a
panic attack. It'll pass.
540
00:35:20,653 --> 00:35:22,232
I've had them before.
541
00:35:22,999 --> 00:35:24,291
Is he all right?
It's all right.
542
00:35:24,316 --> 00:35:27,739
He's just having a panic attack.
He's had them before. Thank you.
543
00:35:27,873 --> 00:35:29,627
ANDREW SOBS
544
00:35:29,652 --> 00:35:33,295
All right. Deep
breaths, come on.
545
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,639
You're OK. It's all right.
546
00:35:35,664 --> 00:35:38,023
And so, for all those reasons,
547
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,599
I will make the declaration
sought by the hospital...
548
00:35:41,628 --> 00:35:43,548
NICCI GASPS, SOBS
549
00:35:43,573 --> 00:35:46,751
that the continuation of
life-sustaining treatment
550
00:35:46,776 --> 00:35:50,575
is not in Marnie's
best interests.
551
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,949
NICCI SOBS
552
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:02,900
INDISTINCT CHATTER
553
00:36:04,374 --> 00:36:07,279
We'll sort it with Derek and talk
about a potential appeal. Derek?
554
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,218
Yes, absolutely.
555
00:36:09,243 --> 00:36:11,442
Look, it's hard
now, I know, but...
556
00:36:11,467 --> 00:36:14,787
INDISTINCT CHATTER
557
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,720
Can we go? Let's just go.
558
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,200
HE EXHALES
559
00:37:20,566 --> 00:37:22,223
DOORBELL
560
00:37:26,819 --> 00:37:28,339
No, I'll get it.
561
00:37:32,869 --> 00:37:35,468
Hello. Hi, Tom.
562
00:37:35,493 --> 00:37:37,093
Is, um...?
563
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,639
Hello. Hi.
564
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,740
I was just... writing to you.
565
00:37:45,765 --> 00:37:47,175
Saying what?
566
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,039
Sh... shall I leave?
567
00:37:50,349 --> 00:37:53,308
Well, no. We'll just...
We'll go for a walk.
568
00:37:53,333 --> 00:37:55,157
I always like a walk.
569
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,919
All right? Yeah.
570
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,200
OK.
571
00:38:09,966 --> 00:38:11,846
They want me to appeal.
572
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,719
Of course they do.
573
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:17,079
I shouldn't have told
them about your drinking.
574
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,279
I'm ashamed that I did that.
I should... You needed to win.
575
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,639
You-you were...
576
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,888
You ARE an excellent dad.
577
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,599
I'm not saying you're
right, and I'm not...
578
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,000
But I'm...
579
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,245
But I'm-I'm stopping it.
580
00:38:42,553 --> 00:38:44,273
You're sure?
581
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:39,960
Morning!
582
00:39:42,272 --> 00:39:44,591
This is an unexpected bounty.
583
00:39:44,616 --> 00:39:47,359
Yeah, well, they're mostly
ones you've sold us.
584
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,399
What's brought this on?
585
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,742
Um, well, you won't be
seeing us again for a while.
586
00:39:54,633 --> 00:39:56,873
She's a smasher, your Marnie.
587
00:40:21,053 --> 00:40:23,278
I don't want her to die here.
588
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,319
Um...
589
00:40:28,658 --> 00:40:32,639
I'm afraid, as I
understand it, she has to.
590
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,599
Oh.
591
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,959
I, um... I asked the same thing,
592
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,439
back at the beginning, I asked
whether we could, you know,
593
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,092
get her home, and I was told
that she'd die in the ambulance.
594
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,345
Right.
595
00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:52,269
What they have said is once they've
turned off all the machines and,
596
00:40:52,294 --> 00:40:55,079
you know, let her... go...
597
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,199
..um...
598
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,529
..they can put her in
an ambulance for us
599
00:40:59,554 --> 00:41:03,284
and we can get her home
then and put her to bed.
600
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,519
She'd be, er...
601
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,159
She'd be dead.
602
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:18,160
Or, um, well, we could explore
the, um... the transplant option.
603
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:20,880
Right.
604
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,839
What do you think?
605
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,852
I decided I'd leave
that question to you.
606
00:41:30,012 --> 00:41:31,132
Oh.
607
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,239
Well, thank you
for researching it
608
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:40,494
but... I want us
to decide together.
609
00:41:41,353 --> 00:41:43,057
Yeah. Um...
610
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,159
I mean, I genuinely...
611
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,776
I'm not sure on this. Um...
612
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,319
I think Marnie
would quite like to
613
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,560
be back in her own bed...
614
00:41:59,632 --> 00:42:01,112
..and, um...
615
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,679
..and I think Marnie would quite
like to be useful, you know,
616
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,360
to other people.
617
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,247
Katie?
618
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:13,679
Me?
619
00:42:13,913 --> 00:42:15,473
Yes, please.
620
00:42:17,879 --> 00:42:19,439
Um...
621
00:42:21,586 --> 00:42:23,030
I think...
622
00:42:27,073 --> 00:42:29,264
I think transplant.
623
00:42:32,273 --> 00:42:35,193
Could they do it quickly? They
could make that happen, yeah.
624
00:42:41,766 --> 00:42:43,846
Well, let's make it happen.
625
00:43:26,406 --> 00:43:27,846
Will we hear it?
626
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:31,799
Will we hear it when she dies?
627
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,083
There might be some breathing.
628
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,399
But will it sound
like she's in pain?
629
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:38,879
That's unlikely.
630
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,159
Chances are she'll just pass.
631
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,606
Can we call it dying? Not
letting go or passing on, just...
632
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,439
..just dying.
633
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,119
With the morphine she's on,
634
00:43:51,453 --> 00:43:53,888
I don't believe
she'll feel any pain.
635
00:43:58,526 --> 00:44:01,128
Have you got anything
you want to say to her?
636
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,880
I think she knows how I feel.
637
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,120
I love you, Marnie.
638
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,359
I love you, too.
639
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,250
I love you so much.
640
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,599
I've got something
I want to say.
641
00:44:21,786 --> 00:44:22,826
OK.
642
00:44:31,173 --> 00:44:35,013
KATIE WHISPERS
643
00:44:53,979 --> 00:44:55,485
Are you ready?
644
00:44:56,944 --> 00:44:59,086
Are the transplant team ready?
645
00:44:59,111 --> 00:45:00,146
Yes.
646
00:45:00,171 --> 00:45:03,159
Um, so, um... what will happen?
647
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,239
Once we've taken out
the breathing tube,
648
00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:08,399
we'll let her breathe on her
own. She may take a few breaths.
649
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,295
You will have a little
time to hold her.
650
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:16,439
Then her heart will slow
and then it will stop.
651
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,994
When that happens, we need to
get her next door, straight away.
652
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,826
OK.
653
00:45:30,306 --> 00:45:32,350
Then I-I think we're ready.
654
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,200
OK.
655
00:45:52,786 --> 00:45:57,226
SOFT BEEPING
656
00:46:05,686 --> 00:46:08,606
SNIFFLING
657
00:46:29,706 --> 00:46:31,346
There we go.
658
00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:34,940
There we go, lamb.
659
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,322
Goodnight. Sleep tight.
660
00:46:46,526 --> 00:46:48,766
I love you. I love
you. I love you.
661
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,919
Was that the wrong thing to say?
662
00:46:56,165 --> 00:46:57,958
No.
663
00:48:14,813 --> 00:48:16,453
LIGHTER IGNITES
664
00:48:23,613 --> 00:48:25,110
Well, I'll, um...
665
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:27,760
Get in the van.
666
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,365
I don't know where we're going
but we're going there together.
667
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,244
Right? I agree with her.
668
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,799
OK. Thanks.
669
00:49:06,413 --> 00:49:10,037
I'm going to miss
her... so much.
670
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,382
You know I will too, right?
671
00:49:16,433 --> 00:49:19,216
You even thinking you
need to say that just...
672
00:49:20,259 --> 00:49:22,711
..makes me feel like
such an arsehole.
673
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,876
We made her happy and...
674
00:49:27,266 --> 00:49:29,026
..and that's...
675
00:49:32,293 --> 00:49:35,536
Well, she made us happy,
too. She really did.
676
00:49:45,913 --> 00:49:47,913
REAR DOOR OPENS
677
00:49:53,659 --> 00:49:55,379
So, where to?
678
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,759
I could be hungry.
679
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,118
You could? Mm. Well,
that's shocking.
680
00:50:02,143 --> 00:50:04,349
That's a great idea. Um...
681
00:50:04,374 --> 00:50:06,973
..the Italian place
by the library?
682
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:08,719
Yeah. Good.
683
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:10,639
Music? You want some music?
684
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,919
Oh. I, er...
685
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,057
Your dongle, it's,
uh... it's busted.
686
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,627
You broke my dongle?
687
00:50:19,027 --> 00:50:22,634
Yeah. Yeah, I snapped it.
I snapped it in anger.
688
00:50:22,659 --> 00:50:24,159
Well, shall I sing
something, then?
689
00:50:24,184 --> 00:50:25,464
KATIE CHUCKLES
690
00:50:26,333 --> 00:50:29,975
Uh... I've got my music.
691
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,912
Oh, she's got her music.
692
00:50:33,486 --> 00:50:35,987
Let's hear it,
then. All right.
693
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:43,720
MUSIC: 20/20 by Rimon
694
00:50:49,352 --> 00:50:51,431
♪ Whoa, whoa Woo, ooh
695
00:50:51,456 --> 00:50:55,175
♪ Whoa, whoa Woo, ooh, ooh
696
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,520
♪ Whoa, hmm
697
00:51:01,336 --> 00:51:06,975
♪ I see your sunlight through
the window, it's magic, uh
698
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:12,359
♪ My thoughts and body were
just caught by this traffic, uh
699
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:17,919
♪ You watched time pass while
I kept myself distracted, uh
700
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:22,839
♪ Will you forgive now
that I'm paying attention?
701
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:28,719
♪ Uh, I see your sunlight through
the window, it's magic, uh
702
00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:34,119
♪ My thoughts and body were
just caught by this traffic, uh
703
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,039
♪ Where did our time go?
704
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,959
♪ Encounters beautiful
705
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:47,960
♪ Only you are the one to
break the shackles of my burden
706
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:53,879
♪ Are the one to show
me glory in the moment
707
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,519
♪ Cannot pay you back
708
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,279
♪ Even if I could, I can
only fall on my knees
709
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,319
♪ Show my gratitude
for your deeds
710
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,399
♪ I see your sunlight through
711
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,559
♪ The window, it's magic, uh
712
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,079
♪ My thoughts and body were just
713
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,199
♪ Caught by this traffic, uh
714
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,159
♪ You watched time pass while
715
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,320
♪ I kept myself distracted. ♪
50017
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