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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:02:03,263 --> 00:02:04,330 Jon. 2 00:02:35,183 --> 00:02:37,654 Do you know why we wanna talk to you, Jon? 3 00:02:39,167 --> 00:02:40,769 I don't know, 4 00:02:41,718 --> 00:02:43,277 I think so. 5 00:02:44,321 --> 00:02:46,548 Why do you think I wanna talk to you? 6 00:02:48,303 --> 00:02:49,827 About that boy. 7 00:02:50,867 --> 00:02:54,327 - Yes? - Because someone took him and killed him. 8 00:02:54,352 --> 00:02:55,466 Yes. 9 00:02:55,491 --> 00:02:58,584 It wasn't me, I never went to Bootle Strand. 10 00:02:58,803 --> 00:03:00,977 Well we're not gonna talk about that just now. 11 00:03:01,487 --> 00:03:03,939 First we're gonna talk about something else. 12 00:03:05,692 --> 00:03:07,723 Do you know what truth is, Jon? 13 00:03:08,312 --> 00:03:09,379 Yeah. 14 00:03:10,762 --> 00:03:14,274 Go on, you tell us what you think truth is. 15 00:03:16,266 --> 00:03:20,024 That you've done something and it's true. 16 00:03:21,205 --> 00:03:23,478 And what if you were telling lies? 17 00:03:27,016 --> 00:03:28,216 I don't know. 18 00:03:29,667 --> 00:03:31,664 Is telling lies wrong? 19 00:03:31,796 --> 00:03:35,754 - Yeah. - So if I said that your face is green 20 00:03:35,779 --> 00:03:38,654 and your hair is pink, would that be a lie? 21 00:03:38,983 --> 00:03:40,140 Yeah. 22 00:03:40,165 --> 00:03:43,149 Okay, so you know what a lie is. 23 00:04:18,853 --> 00:04:22,250 Robert, you've seen the pictures on TV 24 00:04:22,275 --> 00:04:25,993 showing James and the two boys who took him, haven't you? 25 00:04:26,985 --> 00:04:30,680 Yeah, it isn't me 'cause I didn't take him. 26 00:04:31,305 --> 00:04:32,709 Well there's a boy in the video 27 00:04:32,734 --> 00:04:34,838 who has a jacket just like yours. 28 00:04:35,437 --> 00:04:37,851 There's lots of jackets the same as mine. 29 00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:42,212 Well there's also a boy with a jacket like Jon's walking next to James. 30 00:04:42,624 --> 00:04:44,772 Well, he's not walking with me. 31 00:04:45,326 --> 00:04:47,256 But you were there, weren't you? 32 00:04:47,904 --> 00:04:49,953 Yeah, I was there. 33 00:04:50,154 --> 00:04:52,818 I saw him but I didn't take him. 34 00:04:56,127 --> 00:04:57,673 What was he doing? 35 00:04:57,791 --> 00:05:01,517 He was just with his mum, he had a blue coat. 36 00:05:07,329 --> 00:05:09,187 I think, Jon, you should know that Robert 37 00:05:09,212 --> 00:05:10,938 is at Walton Lane police station 38 00:05:11,212 --> 00:05:14,047 and he's told a different story of what happened on Friday. 39 00:05:14,766 --> 00:05:16,704 Robert probably told lies. 40 00:05:17,601 --> 00:05:19,716 What do you think Robert lied about? 41 00:05:20,242 --> 00:05:23,617 I don't know, you think I killed the kid? 42 00:05:23,851 --> 00:05:25,872 No, they don't think that, Jon. 43 00:05:25,897 --> 00:05:27,583 There's no need to get upset. 44 00:05:27,608 --> 00:05:29,545 No one's saying that, Jon. 45 00:05:30,209 --> 00:05:32,162 They just want to know where you've been. 46 00:05:32,318 --> 00:05:35,165 If you've been robbing all day, you should tell them. 47 00:05:35,294 --> 00:05:37,622 I never went to Bootle Strand. 48 00:05:37,763 --> 00:05:39,677 Now is that the truth or a lie? 49 00:05:39,911 --> 00:05:41,184 The truth. 50 00:05:42,294 --> 00:05:43,620 Jon told me earlier that Robert 51 00:05:43,645 --> 00:05:45,442 was going to tell all kinds of lies. 52 00:05:46,051 --> 00:05:48,442 Robbie took me to places I didn't know. 53 00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:50,323 He's frightened because he doesn't know 54 00:05:50,347 --> 00:05:52,402 all the places and Robert does. 55 00:05:54,144 --> 00:05:56,238 Was it the Bootle Strand? 56 00:05:56,263 --> 00:05:59,247 No. - You see, Robert says that he was with you 57 00:05:59,544 --> 00:06:02,042 and that you were indeed in Bootle New Strand together. 58 00:06:02,067 --> 00:06:04,151 - We wasn't. - Robert says you were. 59 00:06:04,176 --> 00:06:07,030 Yeah, we was but we never saw any kids there, 60 00:06:07,097 --> 00:06:08,580 we never robbed any kids. 61 00:06:08,605 --> 00:06:10,447 So you were in Bootle New Strand? 62 00:06:10,472 --> 00:06:11,736 Was you at Bootle Strand? 63 00:06:11,761 --> 00:06:16,072 Yeah, but we never got a kid, mum, we never got a kid. 64 00:06:16,206 --> 00:06:19,440 Mrs. Venables, would you, I must ask you not to get angry with him. 65 00:06:19,581 --> 00:06:21,813 We never got a kid, mum, we never, 66 00:06:21,838 --> 00:06:24,063 we saw those lads together, we did, 67 00:06:24,088 --> 00:06:27,172 we never got a kid, mum, mum, we never got a kid, 68 00:06:27,197 --> 00:06:30,923 you think we did, we never, mum, we never. 69 00:06:37,743 --> 00:06:39,579 I think you saw more of James 70 00:06:39,696 --> 00:06:41,242 because you wouldn't remember a blue coat 71 00:06:41,266 --> 00:06:43,273 - from a brief glance. - I never took him. 72 00:06:43,649 --> 00:06:45,225 Well, we believe that you left 73 00:06:45,250 --> 00:06:47,039 with baby James and with Jon. 74 00:06:47,476 --> 00:06:49,765 - Says who? - We say. 75 00:06:50,031 --> 00:06:52,421 No, I never left with him. 76 00:06:53,836 --> 00:06:55,914 Well, tell me what happened then. 77 00:06:56,642 --> 00:06:58,242 I never touched him. 78 00:07:00,184 --> 00:07:01,730 I never touched him. 79 00:07:02,043 --> 00:07:04,137 That's why you noticed his anorak, 80 00:07:04,598 --> 00:07:07,262 because Jon had hold of his hand, isn't that right? 81 00:07:10,428 --> 00:07:13,411 Yeah, Jon grabbed hold of the baby's hand 82 00:07:13,436 --> 00:07:15,600 and just walked around with him for a bit, 83 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:18,001 but then he let him go loose. 84 00:07:18,404 --> 00:07:20,216 Where did Jon let him go? 85 00:07:20,591 --> 00:07:21,800 By the church. 86 00:07:21,825 --> 00:07:23,495 I told Jon to take him back. 87 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:24,932 Well I have a statement from a woman 88 00:07:24,957 --> 00:07:28,344 who said she saw two boys with a baby on the reservoir. 89 00:07:28,925 --> 00:07:31,324 Now I think that's you and Jon with James. 90 00:07:33,184 --> 00:07:34,910 What happened to him? 91 00:07:35,590 --> 00:07:37,723 We just found him at the bottom of the hill. 92 00:07:37,926 --> 00:07:39,489 Did he have a fall? 93 00:07:39,605 --> 00:07:41,558 That's a bad bruise. 94 00:07:42,019 --> 00:07:43,784 He was like that when we found him. 95 00:07:43,979 --> 00:07:46,831 You'd best take him to Walton Lace Police Station, 96 00:07:46,865 --> 00:07:48,106 do you know where it is? 97 00:07:48,131 --> 00:07:50,031 Yeah, we'll bring him now. 98 00:08:03,183 --> 00:08:05,947 If you knew that I went to Bootle Strand-- 99 00:08:05,972 --> 00:08:08,118 I would have strangled you, yeah. 100 00:08:08,143 --> 00:08:11,736 And wouldn't you have thought I'd killed a kid, I never-- 101 00:08:12,228 --> 00:08:14,298 I'd never think that. 102 00:08:14,681 --> 00:08:17,899 Because, because I would have told, 103 00:08:18,032 --> 00:08:20,242 because I thought you'd think I done it. 104 00:08:21,055 --> 00:08:23,062 If I would have known all this now, Jon, 105 00:08:23,906 --> 00:08:26,603 I would have had you down the police station right away 106 00:08:27,616 --> 00:08:29,795 instead of them banging on my front door 107 00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:32,194 making a show of me in the streets. 108 00:08:32,952 --> 00:08:34,202 But I, 109 00:08:35,293 --> 00:08:37,585 I thought you'd think I killed him. 110 00:09:14,791 --> 00:09:17,520 We just found him, he was lost at the Strand. 111 00:09:18,002 --> 00:09:20,223 We're bringing him to the police station now. 112 00:09:20,439 --> 00:09:22,135 If you found him by the Strand, 113 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,769 why didn't you bring him to the police station by the Strand? 114 00:09:25,331 --> 00:09:28,987 We were bringing him to Walton Lane Police Station. 115 00:09:29,823 --> 00:09:33,729 Well, you've come an awfully long way from the Strand to Walton Lane Police Station. 116 00:09:33,932 --> 00:09:36,182 Well, that's where the man directed us. 117 00:09:36,274 --> 00:09:37,640 Where do you live? 118 00:09:38,674 --> 00:09:40,892 The police station is on the way home. 119 00:09:41,674 --> 00:09:43,308 Are you all right? 120 00:09:46,906 --> 00:09:49,054 We'll bring him to the police station. 121 00:09:50,195 --> 00:09:51,858 Would you mind looking after my little girl 122 00:09:51,882 --> 00:09:53,413 while I take him to the station? 123 00:09:53,538 --> 00:09:56,626 Oh, my dog doesn't like children, 124 00:09:56,858 --> 00:09:59,128 he's afraid of them, sorry. 125 00:09:59,764 --> 00:10:02,398 Okay, boys, do you know which way you're going? 126 00:10:02,509 --> 00:10:04,201 Yeah, we know. 127 00:10:06,899 --> 00:10:09,072 Are you sure you know the way? 128 00:10:09,097 --> 00:10:11,063 I'll go that way, missus. 129 00:10:24,043 --> 00:10:26,629 So, you did leave with James then? 130 00:10:27,434 --> 00:10:29,870 Yeah, we went to the Strand 131 00:10:29,895 --> 00:10:31,361 and we picked up little James up. 132 00:10:31,386 --> 00:10:33,660 Well, he, Jon did. 133 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,285 Right. 134 00:10:35,613 --> 00:10:38,144 Then we took him down and left him on the How. 135 00:10:38,245 --> 00:10:39,511 On the How? 136 00:10:40,003 --> 00:10:41,251 By the railway. 137 00:10:41,276 --> 00:10:43,111 Why did you leave James there? 138 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,134 'Cause if we took him to the police station, 139 00:10:45,158 --> 00:10:49,509 then we'd have to go inside. He wasn't crying anymore, he was just looking around, 140 00:10:49,892 --> 00:10:51,647 he'd only had a graze. 141 00:10:52,657 --> 00:10:54,508 Now, would you have left baby Ben, 142 00:10:54,633 --> 00:10:56,867 your brother there, if he was two? 143 00:10:57,593 --> 00:10:59,695 No, 'cause he's my brother. 144 00:11:00,211 --> 00:11:02,132 And would you have left a similar boy? 145 00:11:02,499 --> 00:11:05,742 He's not, though, he's not any relation to us. 146 00:11:07,021 --> 00:11:09,029 Mum, is Jon getting asked this? 147 00:11:10,373 --> 00:11:12,887 Robert says that you took James by the hand 148 00:11:12,912 --> 00:11:14,810 and led him out out to the Strand shops. 149 00:11:14,943 --> 00:11:17,708 - We never, we never-- - No, not we, 150 00:11:17,865 --> 00:11:19,847 Robert is saying that you took him by the hand. 151 00:11:19,872 --> 00:11:23,153 - We never. - Not Robert, you did it. 152 00:11:23,178 --> 00:11:25,504 - I never. - Well, why would Robert say that about you? 153 00:11:25,529 --> 00:11:26,527 He's a liar! 154 00:11:26,552 --> 00:11:28,981 - All right, come on love, you tell them the truth. - I never took him 155 00:11:29,005 --> 00:11:31,654 by the hand, I never even touched the baby. 156 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:34,090 - Jon, are you all right to carry on? - Yeah. 157 00:11:34,115 --> 00:11:35,691 Jon, look at me. 158 00:11:36,458 --> 00:11:39,495 If you want to stop at anytime, you just say so. 159 00:11:39,887 --> 00:11:41,573 You need to tell the truth, Jon, 160 00:11:41,598 --> 00:11:43,543 because you keep telling us stories. 161 00:11:43,568 --> 00:11:45,291 I never got the boy. 162 00:11:45,316 --> 00:11:47,987 Well, if you never got the boy, tell us what happened. 163 00:11:48,393 --> 00:11:49,592 Was it Robert? 164 00:11:51,723 --> 00:11:56,340 - You're nodding your head. - Yeah, he left him in the road. 165 00:11:57,098 --> 00:11:58,854 Right, well, let's go back to the Strand. 166 00:11:58,879 --> 00:12:01,350 No, I never touched a boy, mum, I never. 167 00:12:01,375 --> 00:12:02,441 Okay. 168 00:12:04,947 --> 00:12:06,789 Come here, son, all right, come on, come on. 169 00:12:07,041 --> 00:12:09,414 - Oh God, no. - Settle yourself down. 170 00:12:09,439 --> 00:12:11,790 I can't, I never touched him. 171 00:12:12,173 --> 00:12:14,071 Sit down, go to your mum. 172 00:12:14,096 --> 00:12:16,845 All right, all right, you're going to get me crying now, look. 173 00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:21,005 - I never, mum. - I know you wouldn't, I know you wouldn't do that to a boy. 174 00:12:22,072 --> 00:12:26,087 All right, well, why don't you tell us what happened, Jon? 175 00:12:26,377 --> 00:12:27,810 I left Robert on his own. 176 00:12:28,368 --> 00:12:31,211 Tell me the truth, now Jon, please. 177 00:12:31,236 --> 00:12:32,646 I never killed him, mum, 178 00:12:32,671 --> 00:12:35,249 we took him and left the canal, mum, that's all. 179 00:12:35,484 --> 00:12:37,632 He left him at the canal, by the Strand? 180 00:12:37,657 --> 00:12:38,702 Yeah. 181 00:12:38,727 --> 00:12:40,218 Where did you find the boy in the Strand? 182 00:12:40,242 --> 00:12:43,241 I don't know, he was just walking around on his own. 183 00:12:43,266 --> 00:12:46,101 I never killed him, mum, I never killed him, mum, 184 00:12:46,126 --> 00:12:47,373 I wouldn't hurt a baby. 185 00:12:47,398 --> 00:12:48,858 I know you wouldn't hurt a baby. 186 00:12:48,883 --> 00:12:51,999 I wanna go home, I've already told you what I know. 187 00:12:52,358 --> 00:12:55,475 You're gonna put me in jail, I never, mum! 188 00:12:56,858 --> 00:13:00,193 I never, I never, I never, I never, I never, I never. 189 00:13:08,646 --> 00:13:11,200 You see, Robert, if James was bleeding 190 00:13:11,614 --> 00:13:13,910 and we find his blood on your clothes or Jon's, 191 00:13:14,285 --> 00:13:16,485 then we'd know that you were there when he was bleeding. 192 00:13:16,778 --> 00:13:18,996 But how would you know it was baby James' blood? 193 00:13:19,285 --> 00:13:21,567 We'd know because we have his body. 194 00:13:21,833 --> 00:13:22,934 Where? 195 00:13:23,121 --> 00:13:24,777 Well, it doesn't matter where, 196 00:13:25,347 --> 00:13:27,527 he's probably been to the hospital first. 197 00:13:27,552 --> 00:13:28,699 Why? 198 00:13:29,230 --> 00:13:32,167 To take blood from his arm like they did with you. 199 00:13:32,558 --> 00:13:35,362 They've taken him to try get him alive again? 200 00:13:35,939 --> 00:13:37,040 No. 201 00:13:37,441 --> 00:13:39,846 No, they can't do that. 202 00:13:41,327 --> 00:13:43,101 I was told he got chopped in half, 203 00:13:43,452 --> 00:13:46,061 well, he couldn't come alive again, could he, 204 00:13:46,339 --> 00:13:48,170 if he'd been chopped in half? 205 00:13:51,726 --> 00:13:54,764 The blood might be mine 'cause I was bleeding from a cut. 206 00:13:55,734 --> 00:13:58,701 Well, you couldn't do that with your shoe 207 00:13:59,124 --> 00:14:01,476 and the blood has been found on your shoe. 208 00:14:04,309 --> 00:14:06,209 I never murdered him. 209 00:14:07,215 --> 00:14:09,946 You're just trying to say that I murdered him. 210 00:14:10,394 --> 00:14:12,515 Why aren't you doing this to Jon? 211 00:14:12,688 --> 00:14:15,786 Ask Jon, I never touched him. 212 00:14:52,569 --> 00:14:53,756 Jon, 213 00:14:54,693 --> 00:14:57,204 your dad and I want to say something to you 214 00:14:58,245 --> 00:15:00,487 and it's important, all right? 215 00:15:00,772 --> 00:15:02,011 Okay. 216 00:15:02,925 --> 00:15:04,745 We want you to know that 217 00:15:05,484 --> 00:15:08,815 we love you, very, very much. 218 00:15:10,474 --> 00:15:12,008 More than anything. 219 00:15:13,224 --> 00:15:15,978 And nothing is going to change that, okay? 220 00:15:16,761 --> 00:15:18,300 - Okay. - So... 221 00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:21,407 What I'm trying to say, Jon, 222 00:15:21,432 --> 00:15:26,289 is that no matter what happens, no matter what you've done, 223 00:15:26,314 --> 00:15:29,458 even if it's really, really bad, 224 00:15:31,291 --> 00:15:34,134 we'll always love you, you know that, don't you? 225 00:15:34,159 --> 00:15:35,225 Yeah. 226 00:15:36,978 --> 00:15:39,134 We'll always love you, Jon. 227 00:15:40,666 --> 00:15:42,611 But you've got to tell the truth. 228 00:15:44,082 --> 00:15:45,253 Mum. 229 00:15:51,308 --> 00:15:53,660 Mum, I wanted to tell you. 230 00:15:59,326 --> 00:16:00,857 I did kill him. 231 00:16:26,704 --> 00:16:28,314 What about his mum? 232 00:16:29,656 --> 00:16:31,579 Will you tell her I'm sorry? 233 00:16:37,683 --> 00:16:39,753 Where did you find James? 234 00:16:41,379 --> 00:16:42,679 At the butcher's. 235 00:16:43,175 --> 00:16:45,206 And whose idea was it to take him? 236 00:16:46,542 --> 00:16:49,651 Mine, then it was Robert's idea to kill him. 237 00:16:51,475 --> 00:16:53,162 Why did you want to take him? 238 00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:57,913 I just said to Robert, is that boy lost or something? 239 00:16:58,458 --> 00:17:00,723 We were looking around for his mum for a bit, 240 00:17:01,809 --> 00:17:05,371 but then we got fed up and we went outside to the canal. 241 00:17:07,212 --> 00:17:10,587 Come on, baby, come on, let's look at the water, come on. 242 00:17:10,612 --> 00:17:12,045 Let's push him in. 243 00:17:15,068 --> 00:17:18,209 Then Robert picked him up and threw him on the floor, 244 00:17:18,521 --> 00:17:20,942 and that's how he got the bump on his head. 245 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,864 - Was he crying then? - Yeah. 246 00:17:31,614 --> 00:17:35,020 We ran away but then we came back 247 00:17:35,731 --> 00:17:38,004 and he was already walking up to us. 248 00:17:57,254 --> 00:17:59,135 I'm sick of having my little brother, 249 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,855 I have him from school all the time. 250 00:18:01,199 --> 00:18:04,128 I'm gonna tell my mum I ain't gonna mind him no more. 251 00:18:06,607 --> 00:18:07,674 Come on. 252 00:18:41,619 --> 00:18:43,705 We got to the middle of the bridge 253 00:18:44,557 --> 00:18:46,604 and Robert opened the paint tin, 254 00:18:47,184 --> 00:18:48,395 and then 255 00:18:50,108 --> 00:18:52,426 he threw it in James' face. 256 00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:56,615 I can't tell you anything else. 257 00:18:57,505 --> 00:18:58,572 Why? 258 00:19:00,550 --> 00:19:02,589 'Cause that's the worst bit. 259 00:19:05,775 --> 00:19:08,416 Okay, right, 260 00:19:09,424 --> 00:19:11,280 I know that's the worst bit, 261 00:19:12,009 --> 00:19:14,328 but you know what you did and if you try hard, 262 00:19:14,353 --> 00:19:15,818 you'll be able to tell us. 263 00:19:16,242 --> 00:19:18,531 Just have a little rest, think about it 264 00:19:18,556 --> 00:19:20,462 and just tell us what happened. 265 00:19:22,335 --> 00:19:24,226 We took him on the railway 266 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,164 and started throwing bricks at him. 267 00:19:27,530 --> 00:19:28,663 Who did? 268 00:19:29,614 --> 00:19:30,747 Robbie. 269 00:19:32,786 --> 00:19:35,538 He just said, he said, "Stand there 270 00:19:36,051 --> 00:19:38,442 "and we'll get you a plaster or something." 271 00:19:39,106 --> 00:19:42,856 Then he lifted this brick up and threw it in his face. 272 00:19:44,441 --> 00:19:46,282 You've denied a lot of things, Robert, 273 00:19:46,331 --> 00:19:47,850 and then admitted them. 274 00:19:47,987 --> 00:19:49,766 We were right about those things, 275 00:19:49,791 --> 00:19:51,587 and we're right about this as well. 276 00:19:51,712 --> 00:19:53,970 Yeah, well, I didn't kill him. 277 00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:57,593 If you just tell them the truth, this will all be over in a few minutes. 278 00:19:57,759 --> 00:19:59,548 Jon threw a brick in his face. 279 00:19:59,694 --> 00:20:00,960 Why? 280 00:20:01,182 --> 00:20:02,358 I don't know. 281 00:20:02,764 --> 00:20:05,248 Right, we're getting there, aren't we? 282 00:20:06,170 --> 00:20:07,693 We're getting to the truth now. 283 00:20:08,217 --> 00:20:10,676 Yeah, well, I'm gonna end up getting all the blame 284 00:20:10,701 --> 00:20:12,160 'cause I've got blood on me. 285 00:20:12,185 --> 00:20:14,497 What happened after Jon threw the brick? 286 00:20:14,997 --> 00:20:16,527 The brick hit him in his face 287 00:20:16,552 --> 00:20:18,044 and he fell over on the floor. 288 00:20:18,277 --> 00:20:20,112 Why the hell didn't you just leave? 289 00:20:20,137 --> 00:20:22,402 I did, after that I ran. 290 00:20:22,853 --> 00:20:24,504 I left Jon on his own. 291 00:20:24,989 --> 00:20:28,106 - What was the baby doing? - He was just on the floor crying. 292 00:20:28,954 --> 00:20:30,692 Was he awake or asleep? 293 00:20:31,105 --> 00:20:32,495 What do you mean? 294 00:20:32,726 --> 00:20:34,425 Like was he asleep, or? 295 00:20:34,566 --> 00:20:36,065 He was awake. 296 00:20:37,535 --> 00:20:39,137 Then Robbie said, 297 00:20:39,982 --> 00:20:42,947 "Pick up a brick and throw it." 298 00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:44,669 But I just, 299 00:20:46,432 --> 00:20:48,315 I threw it on the floor. 300 00:20:49,745 --> 00:20:54,883 I missed it on purpose 'cause I didn't wanna hurt him. 301 00:20:55,698 --> 00:20:59,416 But then Robbie picked up the same brick and threw it again. 302 00:21:00,377 --> 00:21:03,926 I don't think that you've told us the full truth. 303 00:21:04,009 --> 00:21:05,500 That's all I seen. 304 00:21:05,525 --> 00:21:07,250 We already know about things that happened 305 00:21:07,275 --> 00:21:09,131 and it doesn't explain a lot of things. 306 00:21:09,156 --> 00:21:10,898 And you were there, like, and seen me? 307 00:21:11,171 --> 00:21:14,538 No, but we can tell what happened from his injuries. 308 00:21:15,163 --> 00:21:18,040 Why would I take flowers over to the baby if I killed him? 309 00:21:18,655 --> 00:21:22,044 I know the truth, I believe I know the truth. 310 00:21:22,155 --> 00:21:23,950 So do I, I was there. 311 00:21:23,975 --> 00:21:25,959 - That's right. - You weren't. 312 00:21:28,544 --> 00:21:31,552 Then Robbie threw about 10 bricks. 313 00:21:32,365 --> 00:21:34,497 I only threw six or five, 314 00:21:35,607 --> 00:21:38,794 but I missed James and hit him in the arm 315 00:21:40,302 --> 00:21:42,450 because I never meant to hit him in the arm, 316 00:21:43,262 --> 00:21:45,802 I wanted to get the brick to the side of him, 317 00:21:45,827 --> 00:21:47,160 Was he bleeding? 318 00:21:47,790 --> 00:21:49,023 All over. 319 00:21:51,808 --> 00:21:53,300 It's all our family, 320 00:21:53,487 --> 00:21:55,377 it's always our family that gets the blame. 321 00:21:55,549 --> 00:21:57,634 Your family might've got blamed in the past, 322 00:21:57,931 --> 00:21:59,758 but on this occasion, we're right, aren't we? 323 00:21:59,783 --> 00:22:02,017 No, 'cause I never touched him. 324 00:22:02,447 --> 00:22:04,173 Tell us what happened then. 325 00:22:04,572 --> 00:22:06,072 Jon threw another brick. 326 00:22:06,142 --> 00:22:07,712 Where did that hit him? 327 00:22:07,737 --> 00:22:09,103 On there. 328 00:22:09,222 --> 00:22:10,369 What happened then? 329 00:22:10,394 --> 00:22:13,480 Then he hit him again with a big metal thing that had holes in it. 330 00:22:13,683 --> 00:22:15,386 Where did he hit him with that? 331 00:22:15,753 --> 00:22:18,839 In the head, he just went like that and hit him. 332 00:22:20,653 --> 00:22:22,442 He hit him with the bar 333 00:22:22,981 --> 00:22:24,957 and I think he was knocked out. 334 00:22:25,387 --> 00:22:28,644 Then we threw a few bricks at him and we ran away. 335 00:22:29,246 --> 00:22:30,813 Why did you run away? 336 00:22:31,183 --> 00:22:32,710 I don't know, 337 00:22:33,104 --> 00:22:34,950 I just said to Robert, 338 00:22:35,667 --> 00:22:37,901 don't you think we've done enough now? 339 00:22:39,153 --> 00:22:41,056 Were you angry with James? 340 00:22:41,513 --> 00:22:44,903 No, I didn't really want to hurt him. 341 00:22:45,817 --> 00:22:47,534 I didn't want to hurt him or nothing, 342 00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:51,300 'cause I didn't want to hurt him with strong things, 343 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,168 only, like, light things. 344 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,442 So, you only wanted to hurt him a little bit. 345 00:23:00,516 --> 00:23:02,266 Answer the question. 346 00:23:03,655 --> 00:23:05,827 Why did you want to hurt him a little bit? 347 00:23:08,007 --> 00:23:11,585 I mean, I didn't want to hurt him, really, 348 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,561 Robert probably, 349 00:23:16,233 --> 00:23:18,803 Robbie was probably doing it for fun or something, 350 00:23:18,928 --> 00:23:20,858 'cause he was laughing his head off. 351 00:23:21,772 --> 00:23:24,533 Why did, why did he do all this? 352 00:23:24,693 --> 00:23:26,107 Why did Jon do all this? 353 00:23:26,209 --> 00:23:28,443 I don't know, that's what I don't know. 354 00:23:28,709 --> 00:23:30,894 I don't believe, Robert, that you just stood idly by 355 00:23:30,919 --> 00:23:32,771 while Jon did all those things. 356 00:23:33,214 --> 00:23:34,761 I was trying to pull Jon back. 357 00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:37,355 Job has admitted to throwing stones, things like that, 358 00:23:37,636 --> 00:23:39,815 but he's also blaming you on a lot of things. 359 00:23:40,167 --> 00:23:42,151 I don't think Jon did everything. 360 00:23:42,214 --> 00:23:44,130 Yeah, well, I never. 361 00:23:44,155 --> 00:23:45,356 I think you hit him. 362 00:23:45,381 --> 00:23:46,709 Well, that's what you think. 363 00:23:46,734 --> 00:23:49,443 There's only one person here that knows the whole truth. 364 00:23:49,468 --> 00:23:52,194 I know, and I've just said it all. 365 00:23:52,437 --> 00:23:55,858 I know I never hit him so I've got nothing to bother about. 366 00:23:58,018 --> 00:23:59,401 I can't, 367 00:24:01,057 --> 00:24:03,198 I can't sit through any more of this. 368 00:24:05,958 --> 00:24:08,668 Did either of you take James' clothes off? 369 00:24:10,193 --> 00:24:13,107 Robert pulled his pants off and his undies 370 00:24:13,857 --> 00:24:15,818 and I pulled his shoes off. 371 00:24:18,750 --> 00:24:19,950 Why? 372 00:24:21,797 --> 00:24:25,461 I don't know why, it was last week, I keep forgetting. 373 00:24:26,935 --> 00:24:28,598 I don't any more now, dad. 374 00:24:28,856 --> 00:24:31,066 He's asking me too hard questions. 375 00:25:12,337 --> 00:25:13,586 Why would I want to kill a baby 376 00:25:13,611 --> 00:25:15,298 when I've got a baby of my own? 377 00:25:15,759 --> 00:25:19,469 If I wanted to kill a baby, I'd kill my own, wouldn't I? 378 00:25:19,993 --> 00:25:22,985 Well, you said your own baby is family, didn't you? 379 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,499 What do you mean? 380 00:25:24,524 --> 00:25:26,092 Well, that's what you said. 381 00:25:26,117 --> 00:25:27,881 I know he's my family, I'm not stupid. 382 00:25:27,906 --> 00:25:29,616 I don't even know what you're going on about. 383 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,757 When James' body was found, 384 00:25:32,241 --> 00:25:34,600 his bottom clothing had been removed. 385 00:25:35,568 --> 00:25:37,529 Can you tell us why that is? 386 00:25:37,554 --> 00:25:40,841 - No. - Did you start playing with him? 387 00:25:41,433 --> 00:25:42,598 With who? 388 00:25:43,543 --> 00:25:45,152 With James' bottom. 389 00:25:45,358 --> 00:25:46,691 No. 390 00:25:46,716 --> 00:25:47,980 Are you sure now? 391 00:25:48,222 --> 00:25:50,379 Yeah, I'm not a pervert, you know? 392 00:25:50,472 --> 00:25:53,464 Jon says it was you who pulled off his pants and his underpants. 393 00:25:53,722 --> 00:25:55,970 So in other words, you're taking what Jon says 394 00:25:55,995 --> 00:25:58,384 and just ignoring me, so I'll ignore you. 395 00:25:58,409 --> 00:26:00,776 There was an injury to James' mouth. 396 00:26:02,295 --> 00:26:03,777 Do you know anything about that? 397 00:26:03,802 --> 00:26:06,295 No, I'm not answering any more. 398 00:26:07,471 --> 00:26:10,306 I think there's still some things you haven't told us, Jon. 399 00:26:11,267 --> 00:26:14,353 The batteries, why were the batteries there? 400 00:26:15,742 --> 00:26:16,778 I don't know. 401 00:26:16,803 --> 00:26:18,238 I think you do know, Jon. 402 00:26:18,263 --> 00:26:20,723 I never put them there, Robert just threw them. 403 00:26:20,748 --> 00:26:22,660 It was a little bit more than throwing them. 404 00:26:22,685 --> 00:26:25,490 I don't know, I don't know, dad. 405 00:26:25,826 --> 00:26:28,732 Jon, is it horrible what happened to the batteries? 406 00:26:28,911 --> 00:26:31,769 I don't know anything about what Robert did with the batteries. 407 00:26:31,794 --> 00:26:32,964 Why are you crying then? 408 00:26:32,989 --> 00:26:36,917 Because you'll blame it on me, that I had them, I don't know about the batteries, 409 00:26:36,942 --> 00:26:38,807 I don't know, I don't know. 410 00:26:38,832 --> 00:26:40,978 Hey, hey, don't go to punch your dad. 411 00:26:41,003 --> 00:26:42,994 My dad thinks I know and I don't. 412 00:26:43,019 --> 00:26:46,206 You're saying I do and I don't, I only know he got killed. 413 00:26:46,231 --> 00:26:47,731 Calm down, Jon. 414 00:26:48,925 --> 00:26:50,860 Can you tell us what happened to James' mouth? 415 00:26:50,885 --> 00:26:53,196 I don't know, I never saw nothing. 416 00:26:53,221 --> 00:26:54,899 Jon, you've got to admit to yourself 417 00:26:54,924 --> 00:26:56,930 but you saw everything that happened there 418 00:26:56,955 --> 00:26:58,665 because you were a part of it. 419 00:26:58,690 --> 00:26:59,773 No, I never. 420 00:26:59,798 --> 00:27:01,874 So you can't say you didn't see. 421 00:27:01,899 --> 00:27:04,539 No, I want my mum, please, I never. 422 00:27:04,859 --> 00:27:07,115 Please, I don't know, make it stop, dad, 423 00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:08,974 please, make it stop, make it stop, 424 00:27:08,999 --> 00:27:11,812 make it stop, make it stop, make it stop! 425 00:27:31,295 --> 00:27:33,139 We're gonna take a drive, Jon. 426 00:27:33,428 --> 00:27:37,085 We'll start at the Strand and you can show us the route you took from there. 427 00:28:41,314 --> 00:28:43,204 Look, that's us. 428 00:28:45,598 --> 00:28:47,200 There's a lot of those around. 429 00:28:47,225 --> 00:28:49,725 You don't need them now, do you? 430 00:28:53,118 --> 00:28:55,271 How come my picture is in black and white, 431 00:28:55,296 --> 00:28:57,016 and Robert's isn't? 432 00:29:00,493 --> 00:29:02,149 Don't know, Jon. 433 00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:17,171 Was that a train going past? 434 00:29:18,237 --> 00:29:21,417 - Yeah. - I know all them trains. 32283

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