All language subtitles for VEED-subtitles_English_Joe Rogan Experience #1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell_Joe Rogan Experience #1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell
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Two, one, boom. And we're live.
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First of all, cheers, gentlemen.
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Let's have a little bit toast. Relax.
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Bob, thank you very much for doing this.
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I really appreciate it.
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I understand that you've told
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this story many, many times.
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You've been grilled many, many times, and
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it's very stressful for you, so I
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really, really appreciate your time.
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For people who don't know the
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story, there is a documentary.
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Jeremy Corbell has a documentary out right now.
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It's called Bob Lazar.
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Area 51 and UFOs and flying saucers.
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And flying saucers.
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Bob Lazar, Area 51 and flying saucers.
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I first heard your story decades ago.
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I told you last night when we went out to dinner.
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I've seen pretty much every
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interview you've ever given.
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I've followed the story incredibly closely.
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But for people who don't know the story
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, let's give them the bullet points.
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You used to work at Area 51
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and Area 51, you went like, well, we want to be accurate.
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Area s four. S Four.
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It's about 15 miles south of Area 51. Okay.
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You worked in how would you describe it?
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I guess within the Area 51 compound.
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You can call that a subset of Area 51.
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And you got that job before that you were
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working before that, I had worked at Los Alamos. Right.
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National labs in New Mexico.
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And you were involved in what kind of work?
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Nuclear weapon development, physics.
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I mean, they do everything there.
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So how do they approach you to say, hey, Bob,
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why don't you come on out to the Nevada desert?
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Well, the way this went down was at that time,
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it was 1982, I had put a jet engine in
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my Honda and Los Alamos, put it on the front
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page of the paper, said, you know, Los Alamos, man.
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Physicist at the lab built this 200 miles an hour
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Honda jet car that I drove to work every day.
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I was known in Los Alamos, the guy with the weird
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car, and you could hear it from a mile away.
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Anyway, the day that came out on the front page of
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the paper was the day Edward Teller, the father of the
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hydrogen bomb, was giving a lecture down there at the lab.
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And we didn't have much going on that day in our group.
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And I asked if I could go down there.
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And I went down there early, and Ed Teller
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was outside leaning on a brick wall there and
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reading the front page of the paper.
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Now this is a guy out of history.
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So I introduced myself.
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Hey, I'm the guy you're reading about there.
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And we talked for a little while, and it was cool.
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Fast forward to years later.
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I had moved out to Las Vegas and had
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left Los Alamos and went on to other things.
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And I wanted to get back into the scientific community.
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I left, start other businesses and that sort of thing.
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So I sent resumes out, and one of them went out
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to Ed Teller and referenced our meeting back in the day.
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And anyway, he remembered me and gave me a
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reference, somebody to contact at E, G and G.
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And that's pretty much how it started.
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So you get a phone call or
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a letter, like, what do you get?
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Well, what did I get?
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I got a letter initially and went down for an
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interview probably a couple of times, and it was down
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at Eg and G Special Projects, which was at McCarron
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Airport at that time out in Las Vegas.
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And did they give you any sort of
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job description of what you were applying for?
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They said it was for I
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can't remember exactly what they did.
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This was a long time ago, but
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I think it was advanced propulsion or
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something like that, something relatively generic.
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And they said it's in a remote area.
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It's going to be some days on, some days off.
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And it was kind of not exactly a full time
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job, but you might have to be out there for
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two weeks at a time and take two weeks off.
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So the work schedule would be kind of broken up.
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And did this seem attractive to
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you or did it seem weird?
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No, it really wasn't weird because people that work
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at the test site, anybody that's familiar with the
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area up there, working at the nuclear test site
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or at the Tona Pot test range north of
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there, that's typically how things go.
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So you had known about it from the scientific
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community because Area 51 at that time was no,
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they didn't say anything about Area 51. Okay.
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They just said it was in a remote location, and
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you just know it was up at the test site. Right.
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But there was no mention of Area 51 at that time.
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So they've done hundreds of nuclear tests in Nevada.
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Nevada?
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That whole area was...there's giant chunks of Nevada
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there's a big piece of Nevada,
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and it's split up into different areas.
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There's a nuclear test site.
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There's area 51.
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There's the Tona Pot test range north of that.
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There's little sub areas.
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There's areas where they test chemical
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weapons and things like that.
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So it's all broken up as a gigantic test area.
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So take me back to first day on the job.
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You accept a job, they take you out there.
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Yeah, the first day really, I didn't
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really get to see a whole lot.
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The first day was essentially just paperwork.
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That's when I flew into Area 51 proper, and I left
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McCarron Airport and flew what they call the Janet flights, just
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a passenger plane from Las Vegas to Area 51.
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And it was really just going through a mountain of
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paperwork that day, from security clearances to god, it was
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like two or 3 hours of just solid paperwork.
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And that was really an uneventful first day.
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When did things get weird?
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When did you realize that?
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At what point in time did you
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say, hey, this is not normal work.
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This doesn't even seem like it's from this planet?
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I can't tell you what day that occurred on because
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so much time has gone by, the days have kind
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of fused into one, and I can't was it a
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slow burn or was there a moment of recognition?
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Well, the first inkling I had was when I came in.
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There's this facility that is at S Four.
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It's in the side of a mountain.
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And normally we had pulled in with the bus and
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gone around the front through a normal double door.
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This time that I went in, there were hanger doors open.
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I went in through the hanger door, and in the hanger
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door was the disc, the flying saucer that I worked on.
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I saw it sitting there and we walked by it.
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It had a little American flag stuck on the side.
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And I thought, oh, my God, this
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finally explains all the flying saucer stories.
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This is just an advanced fighter,
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and this is fucking hilarious, right?
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So I went by, I slid my hands alongside it.
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I got reprimanded immediately for touching the thing.
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And there was a guy, an armed guard that followed us
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in and just said, keep your eyes forward and your hands
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at your side and just walk in the door.
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So that was the first time I
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had seen anything that was weird.
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It was some time later that I was introduced
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to my lab partner, Barry, and we had some
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of the subcomponents of the craft in the lab.
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And Barry was very anxious to get a
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new lab partner, so he was very talkative
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and couldn't wait to show me different things.
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And it was in the demonstration of the
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reactor working where it caught my attention to
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where this is technology that doesn't even exist.
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So, I mean, that was the first time
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I knew that this is really something different.
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What was it what was it about this reactor
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that made you think that it didn't exist technologically?
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Well, I actually have to back up because there
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were some briefings that I read it before that
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that certainly gave me the impression that this was
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going to be a weird job.
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But this was the first hands on thing.
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This was a small reactor about the size of a hemisphere,
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about the size of a basketball on a metal plate.
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And when it was running, it produced a
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gravitational field, a gravitational field of its own.
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Now, this is something that we can't do.
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We can't produce any gravity.
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The only way we get gravity
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is from large quantities of mass.
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But there's no machine we can have that turns
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on that makes gravity like you can turn on
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an electromagnet and it makes a magnetic field.
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We can't make a gravitational field.
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Anyway, this device was producing that.
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And Barry said, almost like he was bragging, go
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ahead, try and try and touch the sphere, and
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I couldn't it pushed my hands away just like
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two, like, poles of a magnet.
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So, like, when you take two magnets and
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you're trying to press them together yeah.
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You have each other yeah.
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Kind of cushioned feeling.
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But you can't get them together.
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The closer you put them, the more they push.
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And you felt that physically? With my hand? Yeah.
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Now there's nothing that does that.
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And that immediately caught my attention,
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going, wow, this is something else.
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What was your thought like, when you felt
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that and you knew that there was nothing
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that you were aware of that could predict?
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Then that connected me to the briefings that I
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read on the first day at S four was
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that everything that I had read was apparently accurate.
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What were you reading?
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It was kind of an overview.
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This project was to back engineer the alien craft.
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And specifically, it was to try and
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back engineer and see if we can
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duplicate the technology with available materials.
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Now, to do this, they split the project
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into many different pieces for several reasons.
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They do this on all classified
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projects, so nobody has the complete
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story, but they compartmentalize everything.
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Now, we had the power and propulsion system. So what?
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The briefings they gave me were like a one
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or two page overview of some of the other
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projects that were going on on the craft.
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The only reason they do that is just in case what
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you're working on is connected intimately in some way that we
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don't know of to one of the other projects.
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You have to know their existence.
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Again, everything from metallurgy to weapon potential.
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The craft and these were all essentially very short briefings,
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but mine was just power and propulsion, and it made
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it very clear that what I read was accurate.
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So when you're reading that before you
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actually saw the reactor, what were your
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thoughts on what they were describing?
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If you knew that something like that didn't exist,
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and they're describing it in the briefings, what did
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you think you were going to see?
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I didn't know at the time.
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I mean, I was reading, I thought, is this just
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some kind of test to see if you're crazy?
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Well, not to see if I'm crazy.
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A lot of times they'll take in real high security jobs.
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I mean, they'll intentionally insert nonsense into them, whether
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it's to confuse the fact or if for someone
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was to leak it out, they would carry that
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information along and know where it came from.
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So I read through the documents, but I didn't
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know if this was part of some kind of
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test or what, or was it potentially realistic.
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I mean, I really didn't consider it being all that
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possible as far as being the actual thing that I
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was going to work on at the time.
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How did they turn it on? The reactor? Yeah.
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The reactor can be turned on or turned
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off in a lot of different ways.
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00:12:36,211 --> 00:12:40,410
The way Barry showed me, the hemisphere is removed.
256
00:12:40,411 --> 00:12:42,116
There's a small tower in the middle.
257
00:12:42,117 --> 00:12:44,302
When you put the hemisphere on, the reactor
258
00:12:44,303 --> 00:12:49,422
activates, the reactor shuts down, it's load sensing.
259
00:12:49,423 --> 00:12:52,168
So if there's no load on the
260
00:12:52,169 --> 00:12:53,672
reactor at all, it shuts down.
261
00:12:53,673 --> 00:12:57,084
When there's a load present on it, it starts up again.
262
00:12:57,085 --> 00:13:01,234
Load, meaning you can consider it an electrical load.
263
00:13:01,235 --> 00:13:06,194
So although it doesn't necessarily operate
264
00:13:06,195 --> 00:13:08,902
electrically, there's no wiring that connects
265
00:13:08,903 --> 00:13:11,190
any of the subcomponents together whatsoever.
266
00:13:11,191 --> 00:13:13,290
They just have to be in the immediate vicinity.
267
00:13:15,390 --> 00:13:20,176
The stuff is borderline magic, and that's essentially where
268
00:13:20,177 --> 00:13:23,010
we left it when I left the project.
269
00:13:23,011 --> 00:13:25,730
So there was no progress made?
270
00:13:25,731 --> 00:13:26,842
There was some progress.
271
00:13:26,843 --> 00:13:28,868
I mean, we did identify, at least we
272
00:13:28,869 --> 00:13:32,308
think, some processes and had a rough idea,
273
00:13:32,309 --> 00:13:33,976
we think, of what was going on.
274
00:13:33,977 --> 00:13:37,208
But I think this is a problem
275
00:13:37,209 --> 00:13:39,672
that they've had for a long time.
276
00:13:39,673 --> 00:13:44,872
And I was replacing somebody that Barry worked with
277
00:13:44,873 --> 00:13:46,412
prior to me, and I think there was some
278
00:13:46,413 --> 00:13:49,468
horrific accident that I didn't have a whole lot
279
00:13:49,469 --> 00:13:52,908
of information on, but Barry alluded to that.
280
00:13:52,909 --> 00:13:55,698
A horrific accident like where someone died?
281
00:13:55,699 --> 00:13:58,332
Yeah, where somebody died because they were trying to
282
00:13:58,333 --> 00:14:01,152
tamper with things or figure out how something worked.
283
00:14:01,153 --> 00:14:03,470
Yeah, the reactor in particular.
284
00:14:03,471 --> 00:14:05,870
But yet he let you touch it.
285
00:14:05,871 --> 00:14:07,552
Yeah, I think what they were trying
286
00:14:07,553 --> 00:14:09,680
to do was cut into one.
287
00:14:09,681 --> 00:14:12,484
Now, they had more than one there, and
288
00:14:12,485 --> 00:14:16,516
supposedly there was an unannounced nuclear test, and
289
00:14:16,517 --> 00:14:18,436
that's what it was at the time.
290
00:14:18,437 --> 00:14:19,818
Remember, they were still doing underground
291
00:14:19,819 --> 00:14:21,760
nuclear tests at the test site.
292
00:14:22,530 --> 00:14:24,788
But from what I understand, according to
293
00:14:24,789 --> 00:14:26,536
Barry, there was an attempt made.
294
00:14:26,537 --> 00:14:28,222
Now, this must have been a pretty desperate
295
00:14:28,223 --> 00:14:31,384
attempt because it's not a very scientific process
296
00:14:31,385 --> 00:14:34,104
to cut, you know, analyze something that way.
297
00:14:34,105 --> 00:14:36,184
But it looked like they used a plasma cutter or
298
00:14:36,185 --> 00:14:39,570
something like that to cut into an operating reactor.
299
00:14:39,571 --> 00:14:41,164
How many of these things did they have?
300
00:14:41,165 --> 00:14:43,666
They had nine craft altogether.
301
00:14:43,667 --> 00:14:46,284
I only got hands on with one of them,
302
00:14:46,285 --> 00:14:49,986
so I can't really say how the others operated.
303
00:14:49,987 --> 00:14:51,184
Did you see the other ones?
304
00:14:51,185 --> 00:14:53,952
Yeah, at one time and only one time, the
305
00:14:53,953 --> 00:14:57,152
bay doors between the hangers were all open, and
306
00:14:57,153 --> 00:14:59,100
I could see all the way through.
307
00:14:59,630 --> 00:15:02,244
And were they all exactly the same?
308
00:15:02,245 --> 00:15:05,252
No, they were all different. Different shapes? Yeah.
309
00:15:05,253 --> 00:15:08,640
But they were all from somewhere else. Yeah, absolutely.
310
00:15:09,330 --> 00:15:13,492
Now, did anyone make any attempt to explain
311
00:15:13,493 --> 00:15:17,912
or to tell you where they came from? No.
312
00:15:17,913 --> 00:15:19,656
No one is the least bit interested
313
00:15:19,657 --> 00:15:22,462
in letting everybody know all the facts.
314
00:15:22,463 --> 00:15:23,742
They want to give you the minimum
315
00:15:23,743 --> 00:15:26,446
information that's necessary to complete your task.
316
00:15:26,447 --> 00:15:28,236
So you're not getting the story
317
00:15:28,237 --> 00:15:29,756
of where they came from.
318
00:15:29,757 --> 00:15:31,788
You're not getting the story of how
319
00:15:31,789 --> 00:15:33,580
much progress other people are making.
320
00:15:33,581 --> 00:15:36,770
You just focus on the small component.
321
00:15:36,771 --> 00:15:38,518
But they gave you some indication that they've
322
00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:40,780
been working on these for a while. Yeah.
323
00:15:41,310 --> 00:15:44,540
When do you think they acquired these?
324
00:15:45,070 --> 00:15:47,230
I really couldn't say.
325
00:15:47,231 --> 00:15:49,500
I think they've been around for a while.
326
00:15:50,530 --> 00:15:53,028
So they bring you into this
327
00:15:53,029 --> 00:15:56,388
room, you see this reactor working.
328
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:59,252
You realize this is nothing that as far as,
329
00:15:59,253 --> 00:16:02,820
like, the scientific community at at current time has
330
00:16:02,821 --> 00:16:06,462
the ability to create, we still don't.
331
00:16:06,463 --> 00:16:08,728
What is your life like from that moment on?
332
00:16:08,729 --> 00:16:10,008
Is that where everything changes?
333
00:16:10,009 --> 00:16:13,816
Because I would imagine the moment you actually
334
00:16:13,817 --> 00:16:17,154
make contact with something that's extraterrestrial, whether it's
335
00:16:17,155 --> 00:16:19,228
an object or a being, something where you
336
00:16:19,229 --> 00:16:22,492
can actually absolutely be certain it's not from
337
00:16:22,493 --> 00:16:26,396
here, your whole paradigm, the whole world you
338
00:16:26,397 --> 00:16:28,300
live in, is now a different place.
339
00:16:28,301 --> 00:16:30,810
Well, this is the only time it became exciting.
340
00:16:31,630 --> 00:16:35,990
The rest of the time, it was really an ominous feeling
341
00:16:35,991 --> 00:16:39,770
being at work, but at that time, it was exciting.
342
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:43,812
Now, I knew we were on the absolute beyond actually
343
00:16:43,813 --> 00:16:47,988
beyond the cutting edge of science, and I was so
344
00:16:47,989 --> 00:16:51,760
absolutely excited to be there every single time I was.
345
00:16:53,570 --> 00:16:55,600
This was a fantastic opportunity.
346
00:16:57,990 --> 00:17:04,150
However, in short order, it began to concern me.
347
00:17:04,151 --> 00:17:07,849
We really have no idea what we're talking about.
348
00:17:07,850 --> 00:17:12,092
And the excitement kind of turned to
349
00:17:12,093 --> 00:17:15,500
dread at some point, because the amount
350
00:17:15,501 --> 00:17:19,349
of power we're dealing with is astronomical.
351
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:22,502
I mean, to affect gravity, to produce the effects
352
00:17:22,503 --> 00:17:26,656
like this equipment does, takes huge amounts of power.
353
00:17:26,657 --> 00:17:32,502
And I've given the example before of taking a small, portable
354
00:17:32,503 --> 00:17:37,028
nuclear reactor and putting it back into Victorian times with the
355
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:40,692
scientists of the time and just dropping it in a room,
356
00:17:40,693 --> 00:17:42,618
and they come and look at it and see that it's
357
00:17:42,619 --> 00:17:45,172
producing power and wonder how it works.
358
00:17:45,173 --> 00:17:48,968
So they start taking it apart, and as soon as
359
00:17:48,969 --> 00:17:50,888
they get some of the shielding off, the people are
360
00:17:50,889 --> 00:17:53,528
going to drop dead because of the radiation inside.
361
00:17:53,529 --> 00:17:57,372
Now, people have no idea that radiation even
362
00:17:57,373 --> 00:18:00,028
exists back then, but anybody that comes in
363
00:18:00,029 --> 00:18:02,386
to check on them will also drop dead.
364
00:18:02,387 --> 00:18:07,666
And there's no reason that that exact scenario
365
00:18:07,667 --> 00:18:09,904
couldn't happen with what we're dealing with.
366
00:18:09,905 --> 00:18:11,872
We have no idea how the
367
00:18:11,873 --> 00:18:14,320
physics operate within this thing.
368
00:18:14,321 --> 00:18:17,654
The power levels are, like I said, astronomical.
369
00:18:17,655 --> 00:18:19,798
It's incredibly dangerous to tinker
370
00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:21,280
with something like that.
371
00:18:21,281 --> 00:18:24,692
And in some respects, we were guinea pigs just
372
00:18:24,693 --> 00:18:26,564
try to find out how to make this thing.
373
00:18:26,565 --> 00:18:29,908
So they had had a series as far as you
374
00:18:29,909 --> 00:18:33,124
surmised, they had a series of different scientists try to
375
00:18:33,125 --> 00:18:35,348
back engineer this thing, try to figure out what this
376
00:18:35,349 --> 00:18:37,208
thing was, and they would bring in new people and,
377
00:18:37,209 --> 00:18:39,380
like, let's throw bob at it. Yeah.
378
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:42,248
I don't know how many, but I knew there
379
00:18:42,249 --> 00:18:44,552
was certainly one before me, and I knew he
380
00:18:44,553 --> 00:18:49,084
died during the analysis of the reactor itself.
381
00:18:49,085 --> 00:18:53,356
And you don't know how many have worked
382
00:18:53,357 --> 00:18:55,468
on it, and no one gave it.
383
00:18:55,469 --> 00:18:57,756
This could have been there for 50 years.
384
00:18:57,757 --> 00:18:59,420
It could have been there for five years.
385
00:18:59,421 --> 00:19:00,850
When they're giving you instructions,
386
00:19:00,851 --> 00:19:02,128
what are they saying?
387
00:19:02,129 --> 00:19:03,414
When they're giving you direction, they're
388
00:19:03,415 --> 00:19:06,048
showing you all this stuff. What are they saying?
389
00:19:06,049 --> 00:19:06,598
Specifically?
390
00:19:06,599 --> 00:19:08,208
What are they asking of you?
391
00:19:08,209 --> 00:19:11,568
Well, essentially what they ask is what I said.
392
00:19:11,569 --> 00:19:13,488
We are just to gather as much information
393
00:19:13,489 --> 00:19:15,604
as possible, find out how it operates, and
394
00:19:15,605 --> 00:19:17,140
see if we can duplicate it.
395
00:19:17,141 --> 00:19:19,412
But they never told you where it was from?
396
00:19:19,413 --> 00:19:22,820
They never let you ask questions about where it's from.
397
00:19:22,821 --> 00:19:27,256
Well, if the information I read in the briefings was
398
00:19:27,257 --> 00:19:30,232
accurate, now what I do have to say is the
399
00:19:30,233 --> 00:19:34,862
information that pertained directly to the reactor was accurate.
400
00:19:34,863 --> 00:19:41,852
What I read did jive with reality in terms
401
00:19:41,853 --> 00:19:44,860
of how in terms of how it was made,
402
00:19:44,861 --> 00:19:47,708
what we saw, how it operated, the materials, how
403
00:19:47,709 --> 00:19:54,240
it turned on, and what was discovered about it.
404
00:19:54,241 --> 00:19:54,896
I'm sorry.
405
00:19:54,897 --> 00:19:56,368
The migraine is really making it
406
00:19:56,369 --> 00:19:57,712
hard for me to think here. Sorry.
407
00:19:57,713 --> 00:19:59,958
No, we talked that before. The podcast.
408
00:19:59,959 --> 00:20:01,638
You tell everybody Bob is getting a Migraine.
409
00:20:01,639 --> 00:20:03,364
I know you're very stressed out by this, which is
410
00:20:03,365 --> 00:20:05,440
one of the reasons why I appreciate you doing this.
411
00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:08,276
Where was I already?
412
00:20:08,277 --> 00:20:09,428
We were talking, right?
413
00:20:09,429 --> 00:20:10,480
Explained it.
414
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:16,392
There was some paperwork that indicated that this
415
00:20:16,393 --> 00:20:19,060
was from the Zeta Reticuli star system.
416
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:24,150
Now, how they obtained that,
417
00:20:24,151 --> 00:20:25,976
I haven't the slightest idea.
418
00:20:25,977 --> 00:20:28,828
But it wasn't just from the Zeta Reticuli star system.
419
00:20:28,829 --> 00:20:31,356
It was what they called ZR Three.
420
00:20:31,357 --> 00:20:34,636
So it was a third planet in that star system.
421
00:20:34,637 --> 00:20:38,172
So there was no other information about it other
422
00:20:38,173 --> 00:20:40,652
than that's supposedly where the craft came from.
423
00:20:40,653 --> 00:20:42,064
Now, is that true? I don't know.
424
00:20:42,065 --> 00:20:43,328
I have no way of verifying that.
425
00:20:43,329 --> 00:20:44,448
But that was printed in the
426
00:20:44,449 --> 00:20:47,318
same materials that referenced the reactor.
427
00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:49,104
Now, I looked that stuff up when I
428
00:20:49,105 --> 00:20:53,146
went home, and Zeta Reticula is a binary
429
00:20:53,147 --> 00:20:57,044
star, two stars that orbit one another.
430
00:20:57,045 --> 00:20:59,108
And it's only visible in the southern hemisphere, and
431
00:20:59,109 --> 00:21:01,476
it's about 30 some odd light years away.
432
00:21:01,477 --> 00:21:03,108
So that's literally all the
433
00:21:03,109 --> 00:21:04,292
information I have about that.
434
00:21:04,293 --> 00:21:07,224
I don't know how they found out it came from there.
435
00:21:07,225 --> 00:21:09,992
And you also probably have some suspicions that they
436
00:21:09,993 --> 00:21:12,552
give you some disinformation, like you were talking about
437
00:21:12,553 --> 00:21:17,688
before, if you ever decided to talk about this.
438
00:21:17,689 --> 00:21:19,228
They added a bunch of nonsense to
439
00:21:19,229 --> 00:21:22,364
make whatever is factual look ridiculous, right.
440
00:21:22,365 --> 00:21:24,812
Or be able to trace it down, like, hey, this
441
00:21:24,813 --> 00:21:28,268
facts came out, and this Lazar guy said it came
442
00:21:28,269 --> 00:21:30,668
from Zeta Reticulate, so they knew it was.
443
00:21:30,669 --> 00:21:32,928
When you read Zeta Reticulate, were you
444
00:21:32,929 --> 00:21:35,104
like, what in the fuck is this?
445
00:21:35,105 --> 00:21:37,408
Well, reading all of this stuff, it
446
00:21:37,409 --> 00:21:38,752
was, what in the fuck is this?
447
00:21:38,753 --> 00:21:40,720
You're like, Why did I sign up for this?
448
00:21:40,721 --> 00:21:42,816
No, to me, this was cool.
449
00:21:42,817 --> 00:21:44,064
This was interesting.
450
00:21:44,065 --> 00:21:45,988
I was just excited to be out in a
451
00:21:45,989 --> 00:21:48,122
secure area in the middle of the desert.
452
00:21:48,123 --> 00:21:49,908
I said, this is awesome. How old are you?
453
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:53,636
At the time, I was in my 20s. Yes.
454
00:21:53,637 --> 00:21:55,892
You're probably totally geeked out.
455
00:21:55,893 --> 00:21:58,584
Oh, yeah, this was great.
456
00:21:58,585 --> 00:22:00,856
I mean, I was excited, so I didn't care.
457
00:22:00,857 --> 00:22:02,600
I'm reading through everything.
458
00:22:02,601 --> 00:22:04,254
So you read through all the Zeta Reticula
459
00:22:04,255 --> 00:22:05,820
thing, but then when you see the actual
460
00:22:05,821 --> 00:22:08,044
starship with the little American flag sticker on
461
00:22:08,045 --> 00:22:11,720
it, well, that was that later or before?
462
00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:16,716
That was before. So before.
463
00:22:16,717 --> 00:22:18,284
So you see the thing before and you
464
00:22:18,285 --> 00:22:21,648
say, oh, this is that before hard? So many years.
465
00:22:21,649 --> 00:22:24,176
Yeah, I can't either way, it doesn't matter.
466
00:22:24,177 --> 00:22:25,440
The days have fused together.
467
00:22:25,441 --> 00:22:28,870
It's so hard to separate what happened in each visit.
468
00:22:28,871 --> 00:22:30,928
Do you remember the thought process when you read that?
469
00:22:30,929 --> 00:22:33,180
It's from Zeta Reticuli? Yeah.
470
00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:36,196
It didn't hit me like a ton of bricks or anything.
471
00:22:36,197 --> 00:22:38,388
It was just like, yeah, okay.
472
00:22:38,389 --> 00:22:42,122
You think it was bullshit? I don't know. Now I don't.
473
00:22:42,123 --> 00:22:45,316
I mean, because when I read it, I hadn't verified anything,
474
00:22:45,317 --> 00:22:47,614
and this was just a bunch of stuff I was reading.
475
00:22:47,615 --> 00:22:49,384
And I thought, maybe after this, they're just
476
00:22:49,385 --> 00:22:50,680
going to give me a test and see
477
00:22:50,681 --> 00:22:53,620
what I can remember in crazy information.
478
00:22:54,550 --> 00:22:58,572
But like I said, when I finally went in with
479
00:22:58,573 --> 00:23:04,492
Barry and had hands on experience with what they were
480
00:23:04,493 --> 00:23:08,242
talking about, it got a completely different meaning.
481
00:23:08,243 --> 00:23:10,048
So there's a plate, there's this thing
482
00:23:10,049 --> 00:23:11,750
that looks like a half a basketball.
483
00:23:11,751 --> 00:23:13,984
And when it's on, you can't come anywhere near it.
484
00:23:13,985 --> 00:23:15,500
You can't touch it. Right.
485
00:23:16,590 --> 00:23:19,550
What is gravity about that?
486
00:23:19,551 --> 00:23:21,092
The concept of gravity to most people
487
00:23:21,093 --> 00:23:22,948
is gravity is bringing something towards it. Right.
488
00:23:22,949 --> 00:23:25,194
Well, I guess you would say it's antigravity.
489
00:23:25,195 --> 00:23:27,466
It's gravity shifted 180 degrees.
490
00:23:27,467 --> 00:23:31,210
It's antigravity.
491
00:23:31,211 --> 00:23:34,840
And did they have any understanding about
492
00:23:34,841 --> 00:23:37,460
what could possibly create this effect?
493
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:40,168
Did they have any areas where
494
00:23:40,169 --> 00:23:43,300
they'd like you to look into? No.
495
00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:49,548
Well, they knew there was a fuel source in
496
00:23:49,549 --> 00:23:53,884
it, and they were proficient at making it work.
497
00:23:53,885 --> 00:23:56,172
And again, my analogy to something like this
498
00:23:56,173 --> 00:23:58,268
is you can drop a motorcycle off in
499
00:23:58,269 --> 00:24:00,028
the wagon train days and just leave it
500
00:24:00,029 --> 00:24:03,280
with the keys parked outside somebody's place.
501
00:24:03,281 --> 00:24:05,408
Everybody will come around it, and they'll poke and
502
00:24:05,409 --> 00:24:07,904
prod, and eventually they'll turn the key, get it
503
00:24:07,905 --> 00:24:10,976
to start, and become proficient at riding it.
504
00:24:10,977 --> 00:24:13,632
Yeah, but they won't be able to
505
00:24:13,633 --> 00:24:15,492
understand what the hell's going on.
506
00:24:15,493 --> 00:24:16,532
They won't be able to make the
507
00:24:16,533 --> 00:24:19,044
plastic fender, much less anything else.
508
00:24:19,045 --> 00:24:21,684
And I think that's exactly the state we were at.
509
00:24:21,685 --> 00:24:24,008
We played around with the parts long enough before I
510
00:24:24,009 --> 00:24:28,232
got there where they could make the reactor operate, take
511
00:24:28,233 --> 00:24:31,460
the fuel out, and know that it makes it work.
512
00:24:32,550 --> 00:24:35,788
How exactly what was going on in the
513
00:24:35,789 --> 00:24:39,240
reactor remained a mystery at the time.
514
00:24:39,850 --> 00:24:43,532
I think we made some progress on what was going
515
00:24:43,533 --> 00:24:47,500
on inside, but I don't think anybody really knew anything.
516
00:24:47,501 --> 00:24:49,116
They could just watch what was going
517
00:24:49,117 --> 00:24:50,864
on and make note of it.
518
00:24:50,865 --> 00:24:52,304
How long were you there?
519
00:24:52,305 --> 00:24:54,496
I'd say about six months or so.
520
00:24:54,497 --> 00:24:57,790
And what progress was made while you were there?
521
00:24:57,791 --> 00:25:02,486
Well, we came up with a bunch of reasonably
522
00:25:02,487 --> 00:25:06,352
good ideas about how the reactor worked, and one
523
00:25:06,353 --> 00:25:09,284
of them was the square base of it was
524
00:25:09,285 --> 00:25:12,042
essentially like a cyclotron, which is a small particle
525
00:25:12,043 --> 00:25:15,578
accelerator, a circular one particle accelerators.
526
00:25:15,579 --> 00:25:19,422
Linear particle accelerators are just a long tube,
527
00:25:19,423 --> 00:25:21,998
essentially, and they accelerate particles with high voltage
528
00:25:21,999 --> 00:25:25,118
and radio frequencies till they reach high speeds.
529
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,066
But a cyclotron does that in a small circular
530
00:25:28,067 --> 00:25:33,122
area, and there is this very heavy element fuel,
531
00:25:33,123 --> 00:25:36,770
element 115, something that wasn't on our periodic charts
532
00:25:36,771 --> 00:25:38,828
at the time, but it is now.
533
00:25:38,829 --> 00:25:39,916
It is now, yeah.
534
00:25:39,917 --> 00:25:42,310
When did it become on the periodic table?
535
00:25:42,311 --> 00:25:43,856
Now, the way the charts now,
536
00:25:43,857 --> 00:25:45,008
you know, I don't remember.
537
00:25:45,009 --> 00:25:49,424
Do you remember when they 2004, Dermstat, Germany, I
538
00:25:49,425 --> 00:25:51,318
think, is where they first fabricated four atoms.
539
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:53,382
They lasted 220 milliseconds.
540
00:25:53,383 --> 00:25:55,412
With the atoms, it's nothing. Right.
541
00:25:55,413 --> 00:25:57,812
And then it later was discovered a couple more times.
542
00:25:57,813 --> 00:25:59,140
They could fabricate it.
543
00:25:59,141 --> 00:26:01,572
Then they gave it a place then on
544
00:26:01,573 --> 00:26:04,558
the periodic chart after that, called it muscovium.
545
00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:08,500
So they told you about this stuff in 1982?
546
00:26:09,910 --> 00:26:10,440
Yeah.
547
00:26:10,441 --> 00:26:13,640
Well, we what year was this?
548
00:26:13,641 --> 00:26:16,520
It was 80, 88 and 89 when I was there.
549
00:26:16,521 --> 00:26:19,480
82 is when 82 is when you're los Alamos. I'm sorry.
550
00:26:19,481 --> 00:26:20,008
Yeah.
551
00:26:20,009 --> 00:26:21,276
So 88, 89.
552
00:26:21,277 --> 00:26:22,412
They told you about this stuff?
553
00:26:22,413 --> 00:26:25,148
So this was not like no, they didn't tell me about it.
554
00:26:25,149 --> 00:26:28,220
That's one of the things that this group came up with.
555
00:26:31,630 --> 00:26:34,496
I keep losing my train of thought with this thing.
556
00:26:34,497 --> 00:26:40,678
So this one area, this this element 115 was the fuel?
557
00:26:40,679 --> 00:26:42,330
Yeah, it was the fuel.
558
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:54,144
The the world will forgive you for having a migraine.
559
00:26:54,145 --> 00:26:55,690
It's really hard to think through.
560
00:26:55,691 --> 00:26:57,306
Can I give me a minute. Give you more.
561
00:26:57,307 --> 00:26:58,714
I just want to say what yeah, definitely.
562
00:26:58,715 --> 00:27:00,070
I was going to say one thing.
563
00:27:00,700 --> 00:27:03,326
For the last 30 years, people have just
564
00:27:03,327 --> 00:27:05,678
been on the attack on Bob, getting to
565
00:27:05,679 --> 00:27:07,934
know him, the personal effects on his life.
566
00:27:07,935 --> 00:27:09,742
It's really hard to understand unless you
567
00:27:09,743 --> 00:27:11,572
meet his family and his wife.
568
00:27:11,573 --> 00:27:13,538
I mean, this is the last thing he
569
00:27:13,539 --> 00:27:15,762
wanted to fucking do, was have to talk.
570
00:27:15,763 --> 00:27:16,962
Yeah, we should explain that.
571
00:27:16,963 --> 00:27:18,776
Jeremy, you and I had this conversation.
572
00:27:18,777 --> 00:27:20,640
I watched your documentary.
573
00:27:20,641 --> 00:27:22,978
We had this conversation, and I said,
574
00:27:22,979 --> 00:27:24,566
I have to talk to him. Yeah.
575
00:27:24,567 --> 00:27:27,660
The document there's been detractors.
576
00:27:27,661 --> 00:27:28,886
There's been a bunch of people.
577
00:27:28,887 --> 00:27:30,454
That called bullshit on many of
578
00:27:30,455 --> 00:27:31,366
the things that you've said.
579
00:27:31,367 --> 00:27:35,526
But over time, many of the things that you talked
580
00:27:35,527 --> 00:27:38,650
about, even in the 80s, have proven to be true.
581
00:27:38,651 --> 00:27:40,282
Things that people said were not
582
00:27:40,283 --> 00:27:41,818
true were proven to be true.
583
00:27:41,819 --> 00:27:44,440
Element 115 was one of them.
584
00:27:44,441 --> 00:27:45,670
Right, right.
585
00:27:46,540 --> 00:27:50,020
Element 115, the fuel they had was stable.
586
00:27:50,021 --> 00:27:51,348
In other words, it didn't decay.
587
00:27:51,349 --> 00:27:53,400
It wasn't emitting radioactivity.
588
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:59,022
When they synthesized the two or three atoms of the 115,
589
00:27:59,023 --> 00:28:02,680
it did decay, and it was not a stable element.
590
00:28:02,681 --> 00:28:04,466
So they're kind of two different things.
591
00:28:04,467 --> 00:28:06,200
But this is kind of typical.
592
00:28:06,201 --> 00:28:09,186
Elements always have, or pretty much always
593
00:28:09,187 --> 00:28:12,664
have stable isotopes and unstable isotopes.
594
00:28:12,665 --> 00:28:14,902
Like, I think Caesium has like,
595
00:28:14,903 --> 00:28:17,798
30 unstable isotopes to it.
596
00:28:17,799 --> 00:28:19,190
Well, hydrogen, for example.
597
00:28:19,191 --> 00:28:21,120
You're familiar with hydrogen gas.
598
00:28:22,340 --> 00:28:24,480
It's stable, it's not radioactive.
599
00:28:24,481 --> 00:28:25,888
But there's also two other types
600
00:28:25,889 --> 00:28:29,968
of hydrogen, deuterium and tritium.
601
00:28:29,969 --> 00:28:32,048
And deuterium isn't radioactive.
602
00:28:32,049 --> 00:28:34,474
It's another stable isotope of
603
00:28:34,475 --> 00:28:36,272
hydrogen, but tritium is radioactive.
604
00:28:36,273 --> 00:28:38,398
Now, they're all hydrogen, but they
605
00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:40,548
just have different amounts of neutrons.
606
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:43,332
So it's the same thing with other elements.
607
00:28:43,333 --> 00:28:46,468
And element 115, depending on the amount of neutrons
608
00:28:46,469 --> 00:28:52,002
it has, designates the isotope, but it's 115.
609
00:28:52,003 --> 00:28:56,738
They will continue to take or experiment and try
610
00:28:56,739 --> 00:29:00,082
and make 115 at different isotopes, and I'm sure
611
00:29:00,083 --> 00:29:02,136
eventually they'll come up with a stable version.
612
00:29:02,137 --> 00:29:04,422
But it's the stable version that has
613
00:29:04,423 --> 00:29:06,214
the properties that we're talking about.
614
00:29:06,215 --> 00:29:08,438
So they, somehow or another
615
00:29:08,439 --> 00:29:10,092
had acquired a stable version.
616
00:29:10,093 --> 00:29:11,292
Did they say that the stable
617
00:29:11,293 --> 00:29:12,860
version had come with this craft?
618
00:29:12,861 --> 00:29:14,758
It absolutely came with the graft, yeah.
619
00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:18,314
So at the time, you having a firm knowledge of
620
00:29:18,315 --> 00:29:21,178
the periodic chart and knowing what was real and what
621
00:29:21,179 --> 00:29:24,720
wasn't real, what was your reaction to having this stable
622
00:29:24,721 --> 00:29:27,476
element 115 that wasn't even supposed to exist?
623
00:29:27,477 --> 00:29:29,646
Well, everything was impossible. Right?
624
00:29:29,647 --> 00:29:31,812
I mean, down to the metal.
625
00:29:31,813 --> 00:29:34,654
I did get a chance to look
626
00:29:34,655 --> 00:29:37,348
inside the craft on only one occasion.
627
00:29:37,349 --> 00:29:41,496
And this was important because where the reactor
628
00:29:41,497 --> 00:29:44,018
sat might have been critical to how it
629
00:29:44,019 --> 00:29:47,938
operated, since everything operates without any interconnection, so
630
00:29:47,939 --> 00:29:50,888
the placement of components might be critical.
631
00:29:50,889 --> 00:29:56,902
So they allowed me to go inside and look at it again.
632
00:29:56,903 --> 00:29:58,262
I forgot where the hell I am.
633
00:29:58,263 --> 00:30:00,998
So you're going into this craft, and what
634
00:30:00,999 --> 00:30:02,886
are you thinking when you're inside of it?
635
00:30:02,887 --> 00:30:03,910
What are you seeing?
636
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:11,002
It's a very ominous feeling because first
637
00:30:11,003 --> 00:30:12,650
of all, everything is one color.
638
00:30:12,651 --> 00:30:15,242
It's like a dark pewter color, and
639
00:30:15,243 --> 00:30:17,952
there are no right angles anywhere.
640
00:30:17,953 --> 00:30:21,854
It's as if somebody took I've said this before somebody
641
00:30:21,855 --> 00:30:25,134
took a model out of and fashioned it out of
642
00:30:25,135 --> 00:30:27,742
wax and then heated it just for a short time.
643
00:30:27,743 --> 00:30:28,952
So everything melted.
644
00:30:28,953 --> 00:30:30,770
Everything looks like it's fused together.
645
00:30:30,771 --> 00:30:31,874
Everything has a radius of
646
00:30:31,875 --> 00:30:35,390
curvature where two items meet.
647
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,630
It's a really weird looking thing, but
648
00:30:42,660 --> 00:30:45,478
there was almost nothing other than a
649
00:30:45,479 --> 00:30:50,428
small foldable hatchway that that looked recognizable.
650
00:30:50,429 --> 00:30:55,052
Everything was was really unworldy depicting
651
00:30:55,053 --> 00:30:56,998
it a way to describe it.
652
00:30:56,999 --> 00:31:00,192
So you you get inside this thing and it's designed
653
00:31:00,193 --> 00:31:02,490
for something that's much smaller than a human being.
654
00:31:02,491 --> 00:31:03,994
Yeah, you can't really stand up till you
655
00:31:03,995 --> 00:31:05,178
get to the very center of it.
656
00:31:05,179 --> 00:31:06,362
And how tall are you?
657
00:31:06,363 --> 00:31:07,742
I'm 510.
658
00:31:07,743 --> 00:31:10,222
And what do you think this was designed for?
659
00:31:10,223 --> 00:31:13,500
I'd say something close to half my height. Wow.
660
00:31:13,501 --> 00:31:17,342
So these little three foot Talish creatures. Yeah.
661
00:31:17,343 --> 00:31:19,426
And the seats were small too.
662
00:31:19,427 --> 00:31:22,322
I mean, obviously it was made for
663
00:31:22,323 --> 00:31:27,506
something small, but there's nothing else.
664
00:31:27,507 --> 00:31:29,442
In there, there's just seats, the
665
00:31:29,443 --> 00:31:31,692
reactor and some of the subcomponents.
666
00:31:31,693 --> 00:31:32,988
There's no control panels.
667
00:31:32,989 --> 00:31:34,380
There's no bathroom.
668
00:31:34,381 --> 00:31:38,758
There's no decorative components or artwork or
669
00:31:38,759 --> 00:31:41,356
anything that you would recognize or trim.
670
00:31:41,357 --> 00:31:43,946
I mean, it's just a very bare bones thing.
671
00:31:43,947 --> 00:31:45,780
You're not seeing any screens.
672
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,658
Well, there are archways around it that
673
00:31:49,659 --> 00:31:53,338
are part of the superstructure, and one
674
00:31:53,339 --> 00:31:56,540
of the archways can become transparent.
675
00:31:56,541 --> 00:31:58,734
When I was in there, there was another group
676
00:31:58,735 --> 00:32:02,526
working on one of the archways, and you could
677
00:32:02,527 --> 00:32:04,974
call that a screen, more or less.
678
00:32:04,975 --> 00:32:09,742
So through that archway, it would maintain the
679
00:32:09,743 --> 00:32:13,858
solidity, the solid, whatever metal it was, but
680
00:32:13,859 --> 00:32:16,200
you could it just became transparent.
681
00:32:16,201 --> 00:32:19,346
Yeah, I saw that happen once or twice before I left.
682
00:32:19,347 --> 00:32:21,048
Did you ask any questions about what the fuck?
683
00:32:21,049 --> 00:32:23,894
No, there's no asking questions. No.
684
00:32:23,895 --> 00:32:26,748
But when you watch something become transparent
685
00:32:26,749 --> 00:32:28,214
and you realize it's still there, but
686
00:32:28,215 --> 00:32:29,702
you could now see through it. Yeah.
687
00:32:29,703 --> 00:32:32,268
I mean, no, that's not that impressive.
688
00:32:32,269 --> 00:32:34,368
We do have some liquid crystal materials
689
00:32:34,369 --> 00:32:37,872
that are like that smart glass.
690
00:32:37,873 --> 00:32:39,540
Yeah, they call it smart glass.
691
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:41,898
And I don't know if the craft is
692
00:32:41,899 --> 00:32:45,456
made of an advanced metal or a ceramic.
693
00:32:45,457 --> 00:32:47,930
It was cold to the touch, so
694
00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:50,356
I would lean more towards a metal.
695
00:32:50,357 --> 00:32:52,970
You're not allowed to ask questions? No.
696
00:32:53,740 --> 00:32:55,918
They work on the buddy system, so I
697
00:32:55,919 --> 00:32:59,260
can only exchange ideas and talk to Barry.
698
00:32:59,261 --> 00:33:03,202
Now, this really interferes with science because science is
699
00:33:03,203 --> 00:33:05,874
based on free discussion, and ideally, you get a
700
00:33:05,875 --> 00:33:08,690
bunch of guys together, exchange ideas, work on problems,
701
00:33:08,691 --> 00:33:10,498
and that's how things move forward.
702
00:33:10,499 --> 00:33:12,742
But they're so over the top
703
00:33:12,743 --> 00:33:15,814
concerned about security, they split everything
704
00:33:15,815 --> 00:33:19,360
off, and everybody becomes stagnant.
705
00:33:20,660 --> 00:33:23,702
It just destroys any of the progress you can
706
00:33:23,703 --> 00:33:26,420
make, or at least makes it go so slow.
707
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,658
I think they wind up shooting themselves in the foot,
708
00:33:29,659 --> 00:33:33,562
which is probably why they arrived at this bottleneck that
709
00:33:33,563 --> 00:33:36,448
they needed to get this madman with a jet powered
710
00:33:36,449 --> 00:33:38,426
Honda to come in and see what he could do.
711
00:33:38,427 --> 00:33:40,260
I think that was an act of desperation.
712
00:33:40,261 --> 00:33:42,158
I think they wanted someone that thinks out of
713
00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:44,238
the box, and let's just give this guy a
714
00:33:44,239 --> 00:33:48,318
try here, because they might have done this four
715
00:33:48,319 --> 00:33:51,378
more times since up to the point in time
716
00:33:51,379 --> 00:33:54,240
today, assuming they're still working on this thing.
717
00:33:54,241 --> 00:33:58,322
And when you see this craft and you're inside, was
718
00:33:58,323 --> 00:34:02,098
there any indication that there was an area that they
719
00:34:02,099 --> 00:34:04,514
would use to control it, to pilot it?
720
00:34:04,515 --> 00:34:07,060
Was there a pilot seat?
721
00:34:07,061 --> 00:34:08,300
There were three seats.
722
00:34:08,301 --> 00:34:09,702
They sat around.
723
00:34:09,703 --> 00:34:11,766
The reactor was in the dead center
724
00:34:11,767 --> 00:34:14,565
of it, and then equidistant around.
725
00:34:14,566 --> 00:34:17,889
There were three seats, and that's all.
726
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,391
They're not consoles.
727
00:34:21,392 --> 00:34:24,330
They're large rectangular objects also
728
00:34:24,331 --> 00:34:27,500
spaced equidistant around the center.
729
00:34:27,501 --> 00:34:29,492
There's nothing on them. There's no buttons.
730
00:34:29,493 --> 00:34:30,500
There's no lights.
731
00:34:30,501 --> 00:34:32,206
And they control the same color.
732
00:34:32,207 --> 00:34:34,942
Everything is the same color, different shape. Right.
733
00:34:34,943 --> 00:34:38,148
And directly underneath them, there's
734
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:40,239
three levels in the craft.
735
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:42,562
The main level is what we're talking about.
736
00:34:42,563 --> 00:34:46,487
Directly under that, those are the gravity amplifiers.
737
00:34:46,488 --> 00:34:49,688
The big rectangular objects underneath them are the gravity
738
00:34:49,689 --> 00:34:52,262
emitters that look like, for lack of a better
739
00:34:52,263 --> 00:34:54,460
word, a trash can hanging on a pipe.
740
00:34:54,461 --> 00:34:58,420
Three of those, and then the top layer.
741
00:34:58,421 --> 00:35:00,172
This is just my personal belief.
742
00:35:00,173 --> 00:35:03,686
I think that has to do with a navigation or
743
00:35:03,687 --> 00:35:08,768
their version of a computer, with some planar panels, sensor
744
00:35:08,769 --> 00:35:11,312
panels around the craft that we would call portholes.
745
00:35:11,313 --> 00:35:12,592
But they're not portholes.
746
00:35:12,593 --> 00:35:13,984
They're just black areas.
747
00:35:13,985 --> 00:35:18,718
And I think that just determines its position in space.
748
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,660
But I physically was in the center section,
749
00:35:22,661 --> 00:35:25,230
and I stuck my torso in the bottom
750
00:35:25,231 --> 00:35:26,958
section and hung upside down so I could
751
00:35:26,959 --> 00:35:30,504
see how the gravity amplifiers were positioned.
752
00:35:30,505 --> 00:35:32,990
What is roughly the size of this thing?
753
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,402
I don't remember from being there, but after all this
754
00:35:38,403 --> 00:35:41,538
stuff was over, I had John Andrews, a guy from
755
00:35:41,539 --> 00:35:45,750
the Testers Model Corporation, and we sat down and tried
756
00:35:45,751 --> 00:35:50,828
to figure out, from what I saw and known sizes
757
00:35:50,829 --> 00:35:53,920
of things, and we came up with 52ft in diameter.
758
00:35:55,380 --> 00:35:56,422
Really small. Yeah.
759
00:35:56,423 --> 00:35:59,610
So I I think that's a fair, reasonable guess.
760
00:35:59,611 --> 00:36:01,258
Now, you said there's nine of them, and you
761
00:36:01,259 --> 00:36:04,120
got a brief glimpse at the other ones.
762
00:36:04,121 --> 00:36:05,350
How are they different?
763
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:07,886
They looked completely different.
764
00:36:07,887 --> 00:36:11,502
One looked like I called a jello mold, and it looked
765
00:36:11,503 --> 00:36:14,558
like a classic jello mold with the rippled sides to it.
766
00:36:14,559 --> 00:36:21,928
One was a very flat disc, like a straw hat
767
00:36:21,929 --> 00:36:24,258
or something like that, that was sitting up on its
768
00:36:24,259 --> 00:36:27,618
edge, and the thin part of it had looked like
769
00:36:27,619 --> 00:36:31,698
a projectile had been fired through the edge of it.
770
00:36:31,699 --> 00:36:33,420
So I don't know if they were attempting
771
00:36:33,421 --> 00:36:36,108
to see if the metal could be penetrated
772
00:36:36,109 --> 00:36:39,686
or if that's where the thing came from.
773
00:36:39,687 --> 00:36:42,998
Maybe it was shot down, but that was the only one
774
00:36:42,999 --> 00:36:46,730
where I saw there was actual physical damage to it.
775
00:36:46,731 --> 00:36:49,226
And that one was roughly the same size.
776
00:36:49,227 --> 00:36:50,538
They're all they were kind of too
777
00:36:50,539 --> 00:36:54,618
far away to tell and did.
778
00:36:54,619 --> 00:36:56,954
There was several teams that were working on
779
00:36:56,955 --> 00:36:59,104
the propulsion system, so there was different teams
780
00:36:59,105 --> 00:37:01,700
that were working on these different aircrafts.
781
00:37:02,540 --> 00:37:04,040
I could only assume.
782
00:37:05,260 --> 00:37:09,236
Now, when you're sitting in this thing and you're
783
00:37:09,237 --> 00:37:14,018
looking at this otherworldly craft, your goal is to
784
00:37:14,019 --> 00:37:16,568
try to figure out how this thing functions.
785
00:37:16,569 --> 00:37:18,386
Your goal is to try to figure out how this
786
00:37:18,387 --> 00:37:22,502
reactor you would imagine they would give you more time
787
00:37:22,503 --> 00:37:24,230
than just one day to check that out.
788
00:37:24,231 --> 00:37:26,900
Oh, it wasn't one day. Right?
789
00:37:26,901 --> 00:37:29,510
Yeah, Barry was there.
790
00:37:29,511 --> 00:37:31,670
I think Barry was sleeping there.
791
00:37:31,671 --> 00:37:32,930
I'm sure they had.
792
00:37:33,620 --> 00:37:34,588
That isn't weird.
793
00:37:34,589 --> 00:37:36,358
I mean, up at the tone of Pod test range where
794
00:37:36,359 --> 00:37:40,826
they work on stealth fighters, you go, I think, three weeks
795
00:37:40,827 --> 00:37:43,498
on, one week off, and you stay up there too, so
796
00:37:43,499 --> 00:37:45,770
it's not weird to stay up at the test site. Right.
797
00:37:45,771 --> 00:37:48,852
So, yeah, I think he pretty much he acted
798
00:37:48,853 --> 00:37:50,830
like he's been up there for a long time.
799
00:37:50,831 --> 00:37:53,822
Yeah, but he's still there.
800
00:37:53,823 --> 00:37:55,396
Yeah, who knows?
801
00:37:55,397 --> 00:37:56,926
Do you have contact with this guy?
802
00:37:56,927 --> 00:37:58,926
No, I wish I did.
803
00:37:58,927 --> 00:38:03,042
I kind of thought he was going to come out after I did.
804
00:38:03,043 --> 00:38:05,870
And I think I took so much flak and
805
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,042
it's so much shit for what went on.
806
00:38:09,043 --> 00:38:11,208
I think actually I wound up helping
807
00:38:11,209 --> 00:38:14,742
security there and everybody became afraid of
808
00:38:14,743 --> 00:38:17,174
doing or saying anything after that.
809
00:38:17,175 --> 00:38:20,822
So what kind of reports did you have to give?
810
00:38:20,823 --> 00:38:22,582
So you're not making much progress, right?
811
00:38:22,583 --> 00:38:23,594
You're just trying to figure out what
812
00:38:23,595 --> 00:38:26,040
this thing is, and it seems impossible.
813
00:38:26,041 --> 00:38:27,946
Well, we didn't personally make them.
814
00:38:27,947 --> 00:38:30,778
I mean, there was never a
815
00:38:30,779 --> 00:38:33,780
lot of information that we gained.
816
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,332
The guy, you would call him our supervisor.
817
00:38:37,333 --> 00:38:39,982
His name was Dennis Mariani and
818
00:38:39,983 --> 00:38:42,238
kind of a military looking guy.
819
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,518
And he would routinely pop in during the
820
00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:48,814
day and, hey, what's going on, guys?
821
00:38:48,815 --> 00:38:51,762
And he would essentially relay any information,
822
00:38:51,763 --> 00:38:53,346
anything new we came up with.
823
00:38:53,347 --> 00:38:56,146
I mean, he was our go between where we
824
00:38:56,147 --> 00:38:58,482
presented him the information, then he took it to
825
00:38:58,483 --> 00:39:02,530
wherever they were, assembling all the data from everybody.
826
00:39:02,531 --> 00:39:04,348
Now, I assume you're working normal
827
00:39:04,349 --> 00:39:05,670
days, like an eight hour day?
828
00:39:05,671 --> 00:39:09,878
No, it was really weird that I would be
829
00:39:09,879 --> 00:39:12,646
only called in on certain times and certain days.
830
00:39:12,647 --> 00:39:15,222
And they would be weird hours too.
831
00:39:15,223 --> 00:39:17,360
Most of the time was later in the evening.
832
00:39:17,361 --> 00:39:19,168
I mean, I can get a call at 11:00
833
00:39:19,169 --> 00:39:22,420
at night and they'll say it's now 11:00.
834
00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:28,170
By 1145, you need to be at McCarran Terminal and
835
00:39:29,580 --> 00:39:32,846
we'll let you know when we have more information.
836
00:39:32,847 --> 00:39:35,102
But what did you do while you were there?
837
00:39:35,103 --> 00:39:39,742
If you're looking at this object, this reactor, and
838
00:39:39,743 --> 00:39:41,838
you can't figure out what it is or how
839
00:39:41,839 --> 00:39:43,602
it works, other than the fact that it works
840
00:39:43,603 --> 00:39:46,242
on this element that we don't even know about. Sure.
841
00:39:46,243 --> 00:39:51,698
I mean, the thing was what you do with anything.
842
00:39:51,699 --> 00:39:53,234
If you're trying to analyze it, all
843
00:39:53,235 --> 00:39:55,388
you can do is perform tests.
844
00:39:55,389 --> 00:39:57,622
And all we did is try and come up
845
00:39:57,623 --> 00:40:00,370
with every kind of test we possibly could.
846
00:40:03,460 --> 00:40:05,898
It violated a lot of what
847
00:40:05,899 --> 00:40:07,984
we thought was impossible to violate.
848
00:40:07,985 --> 00:40:09,914
I mean, one of the first laws of
849
00:40:09,915 --> 00:40:13,488
thermodynamics I mean, essentially any machine, any device
850
00:40:13,489 --> 00:40:16,336
that operates always makes extra heat.
851
00:40:16,337 --> 00:40:18,964
Nothing works at 100% efficient.
852
00:40:18,965 --> 00:40:21,582
Even the headphones you're wearing, anything that
853
00:40:21,583 --> 00:40:23,694
takes power, some of that power is
854
00:40:23,695 --> 00:40:25,348
going to be converted to heat.
855
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:26,760
And it's just wasted.
856
00:40:27,420 --> 00:40:29,262
This didn't I mean, we looked at
857
00:40:29,263 --> 00:40:31,208
back then, we had infrared cameras.
858
00:40:31,209 --> 00:40:33,074
They're different today, but back then you had to
859
00:40:33,075 --> 00:40:36,418
pour liquid nitrogen into the camera to cool the
860
00:40:36,419 --> 00:40:41,254
sensor down and get these infrared images you've seen.
861
00:40:41,255 --> 00:40:43,558
But it never got no matter what the
862
00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:46,102
load was on the reactor, it never got
863
00:40:46,103 --> 00:40:49,628
above the ambient temperature, which is impossible.
864
00:40:49,629 --> 00:40:53,808
I mean, you're pulling out huge amounts
865
00:40:53,809 --> 00:40:56,580
of power and nothing ever gets warm.
866
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,664
We tried measuring magnetic fields,
867
00:40:59,665 --> 00:41:01,226
and there was nothing there.
868
00:41:01,227 --> 00:41:04,954
So we started playing around with the emission from the
869
00:41:04,955 --> 00:41:09,102
emitters, the gravity wave itself, and saw what we could
870
00:41:09,103 --> 00:41:11,252
do with it and how it was focused.
871
00:41:11,253 --> 00:41:16,142
So we really spent all our time just trying to see
872
00:41:16,143 --> 00:41:19,454
what the stuff can do and what we can control.
873
00:41:19,455 --> 00:41:21,458
So you were seeing what it could do, but you
874
00:41:21,459 --> 00:41:23,630
couldn't ever figure out how it was doing it?
875
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:25,630
No, not really.
876
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,110
We really could only use come up with a best guess.
877
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:36,486
Now, I can't say that I could absolutely state
878
00:41:36,487 --> 00:41:40,662
for certainty or certainty how anything actually worked.
879
00:41:40,663 --> 00:41:45,866
Now, did you know at all how they were piloting it?
880
00:41:45,867 --> 00:41:49,658
Because they were doing some tests where they were
881
00:41:49,659 --> 00:41:53,072
having these things fly around in the sky.
882
00:41:53,073 --> 00:41:57,770
And this is what gets us deeper into your story, right?
883
00:42:00,860 --> 00:42:06,030
I was out there for one test, right?
884
00:42:06,031 --> 00:42:09,342
In fact, I was in with barry in the lab, and
885
00:42:09,343 --> 00:42:12,626
dennis came in and said, we're about to run a test.
886
00:42:12,627 --> 00:42:14,162
Why don't you guys come out?
887
00:42:14,163 --> 00:42:16,898
Or I think he said, barry, why don't you
888
00:42:16,899 --> 00:42:19,218
come out here and bring bob with you?
889
00:42:19,219 --> 00:42:23,254
We went out there, and the craft was already outside
890
00:42:23,255 --> 00:42:26,790
the hangar and was just preparing to lift off.
891
00:42:26,791 --> 00:42:28,876
Now, they were in communication
892
00:42:28,877 --> 00:42:30,732
with somebody in the craft.
893
00:42:30,733 --> 00:42:32,524
So there was a person in the craft?
894
00:42:32,525 --> 00:42:35,318
Yeah, there was certainly a person in there.
895
00:42:35,319 --> 00:42:37,578
Now, it's not a comfortable place to be in
896
00:42:37,579 --> 00:42:39,642
because it's small, so the guy has to be
897
00:42:39,643 --> 00:42:41,642
sitting on the floor in the middle.
898
00:42:41,643 --> 00:42:44,528
My best guess, and this is the same specific craft
899
00:42:44,529 --> 00:42:46,708
that you worked on, because that was the only craft
900
00:42:46,709 --> 00:42:48,788
that you were in, the only one that I touched
901
00:42:48,789 --> 00:42:53,732
and worked on, and it quietly lifted off the ground,
902
00:42:53,733 --> 00:42:56,382
which was incredibly impressive to see.
903
00:42:56,383 --> 00:42:58,040
Quietly or silently?
904
00:42:59,420 --> 00:43:02,650
Well, quietly, because it did.
905
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,114
It produced a little corona discharge from the bottom.
906
00:43:08,115 --> 00:43:09,826
Corona discharge is kind of a high
907
00:43:09,827 --> 00:43:12,856
voltage brush, little bluish glow discharge.
908
00:43:12,857 --> 00:43:14,088
As it was lifting off the ground,
909
00:43:14,089 --> 00:43:16,054
you can hear a slight hiss sound.
910
00:43:16,055 --> 00:43:17,718
Now, as soon as it cleared the ground, by
911
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,774
about five or 10ft, maybe even less than that,
912
00:43:20,775 --> 00:43:23,792
the hissing stopped, and the blue go disappeared.
913
00:43:23,793 --> 00:43:26,778
So it lifted off quietly, and then it
914
00:43:26,779 --> 00:43:30,362
hovered silently, if you want to be specific. Wow.
915
00:43:30,363 --> 00:43:32,618
So then what kind of maneuvers was
916
00:43:32,619 --> 00:43:35,742
it doing for that particular time?
917
00:43:35,743 --> 00:43:38,334
It took off, moved a little around to the
918
00:43:38,335 --> 00:43:40,650
left and right, and then sat back down.
919
00:43:42,460 --> 00:43:49,442
The craft itself, they communicated with it, because I
920
00:43:49,443 --> 00:43:54,824
saw the guy talking in a regular VHF radio
921
00:43:54,825 --> 00:43:57,682
to the person in the craft, and I even
922
00:43:57,683 --> 00:44:01,132
saw the frequency that was on the frequency counter,
923
00:44:01,133 --> 00:44:04,290
the communication, the transceiver there.
924
00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:08,118
But what's weird is he shouldn't be able
925
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:11,360
to communicate with the craft with a radio.
926
00:44:13,220 --> 00:44:15,472
The radio wave should bend around the craft.
927
00:44:15,473 --> 00:44:17,560
I mean, it it shouldn't be possible.
928
00:44:17,561 --> 00:44:20,874
Every single thing about these the craft and the
929
00:44:20,875 --> 00:44:24,858
way they operated didn't make any sense to us.
930
00:44:24,859 --> 00:44:26,266
I mean, that's something we talked
931
00:44:26,267 --> 00:44:27,818
about for a while after.
932
00:44:27,819 --> 00:44:30,244
Why should the frequency bend around the craft?
933
00:44:30,245 --> 00:44:32,862
Well, you really have to look at the way
934
00:44:32,863 --> 00:44:35,684
the gravity wave comes out of the craft.
935
00:44:35,685 --> 00:44:37,934
The reactor is in the center, and there's a
936
00:44:37,935 --> 00:44:39,966
wave guide that goes up to the top.
937
00:44:39,967 --> 00:44:42,194
There's actually a small appendage that sticks out of
938
00:44:42,195 --> 00:44:44,258
the top of the craft, and it produces a
939
00:44:44,259 --> 00:44:47,304
heart shaped gravitational distortion around the craft.
940
00:44:47,305 --> 00:44:49,298
Now, if the craft is sitting in the
941
00:44:49,299 --> 00:44:52,102
air and you walk underneath it and look
942
00:44:52,103 --> 00:44:56,060
up, you actually cannot see the craft.
943
00:44:56,061 --> 00:44:58,668
The light bends around it. You're bending.
944
00:44:58,669 --> 00:45:00,118
Gravity bends light.
945
00:45:00,119 --> 00:45:01,920
It bends radio waves.
946
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,018
It shouldn't be possible to communicate with
947
00:45:07,019 --> 00:45:08,970
a craft that has an envelope around
948
00:45:08,971 --> 00:45:11,818
it that's distorting all forms of energy.
949
00:45:11,819 --> 00:45:15,226
But they were apparently in contact with it
950
00:45:15,227 --> 00:45:18,718
somehow or another through some unexplained way that
951
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,100
they didn't bother explaining to you.
952
00:45:21,101 --> 00:45:22,238
So this thing gets up.
953
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,908
It just does some very simple maneuvers.
954
00:45:23,909 --> 00:45:27,566
Left, right, left, right, goes down and
955
00:45:27,567 --> 00:45:29,182
did they discuss this with you?
956
00:45:29,183 --> 00:45:30,686
I mean, they said they wanted you to see it.
957
00:45:30,687 --> 00:45:32,974
No, they just wanted no, they
958
00:45:32,975 --> 00:45:35,042
didn't discuss anything with me.
959
00:45:35,043 --> 00:45:37,768
It sat down, we looked around for a bit, and Barry
960
00:45:37,769 --> 00:45:39,586
said, let's go back, and we went back in the lab.
961
00:45:39,587 --> 00:45:41,330
All we got to do was see it.
962
00:45:42,740 --> 00:45:47,090
Fast forward to some months later.
963
00:45:47,620 --> 00:45:50,716
I did have the test flight schedule of the craft.
964
00:45:50,717 --> 00:45:51,878
Now, they had times they
965
00:45:51,879 --> 00:45:54,720
had designated high performance tests.
966
00:45:54,721 --> 00:45:57,178
This obviously wasn't one that
967
00:45:57,179 --> 00:45:58,922
was a high performance test.
968
00:45:58,923 --> 00:46:03,642
The high performance test goes above the mountain range, and
969
00:46:03,643 --> 00:46:05,642
they do much more radical moves with the thing.
970
00:46:05,643 --> 00:46:09,498
Look, this is a prized item, and they're not doing
971
00:46:09,499 --> 00:46:11,748
anything like taking it out of the atmosphere or flying
972
00:46:11,749 --> 00:46:13,886
around to other countries or anything like that.
973
00:46:13,887 --> 00:46:15,182
They just play with this thing
974
00:46:15,183 --> 00:46:16,570
right over the test site.
975
00:46:17,100 --> 00:46:19,922
But they were doing some radical moves with it.
976
00:46:19,923 --> 00:46:22,376
And since I had the test flight schedule,
977
00:46:22,377 --> 00:46:28,168
statistically, the amount of traffic in the surrounding
978
00:46:28,169 --> 00:46:31,512
areas on the highway was lowest on Wednesdays.
979
00:46:31,513 --> 00:46:35,206
And that's why Dennis told us that all the test
980
00:46:35,207 --> 00:46:39,302
flights occurred only on Wednesdays, because it'd be the least
981
00:46:39,303 --> 00:46:41,766
chance that anyone would see what's going on.
982
00:46:41,767 --> 00:46:45,536
And this was before the government had expanded
983
00:46:45,537 --> 00:46:49,696
the forbidden territory around Area 51 and Papus
984
00:46:49,697 --> 00:46:52,090
Lake and all that stuff, right? Yeah.
985
00:46:52,091 --> 00:46:55,690
I think that occurred after my story came out.
986
00:46:55,691 --> 00:46:58,272
Then people started going up on the mountaintops
987
00:46:58,273 --> 00:47:00,526
and trying to look down into there, and
988
00:47:00,527 --> 00:47:02,078
they kind of freaked out and then did
989
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:04,814
the land grab and pushed everybody back.
990
00:47:04,815 --> 00:47:07,326
But, yeah, I think all that occurred long
991
00:47:07,327 --> 00:47:10,850
after I'm sorry that I came out.
992
00:47:10,851 --> 00:47:14,008
So you're working there, and while you're
993
00:47:14,009 --> 00:47:16,640
working there, you're under this crazy schedule.
994
00:47:16,641 --> 00:47:20,500
Forgive me for explaining your story, but you
995
00:47:20,501 --> 00:47:22,662
would get these phone calls you would have
996
00:47:22,663 --> 00:47:27,366
to go to the airport at 11:00 p.m..
997
00:47:27,367 --> 00:47:29,158
And your wife started thinking that
998
00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:30,480
you were having an affair.
999
00:47:31,540 --> 00:47:33,578
Yeah, apparently so.
1000
00:47:33,579 --> 00:47:37,658
Now, I did give my permission to have as part
1001
00:47:37,659 --> 00:47:43,418
of the security clearance process, I gave written permission to
1002
00:47:43,419 --> 00:47:45,822
have the phones monitored and things of that sort.
1003
00:47:45,823 --> 00:47:49,982
So they weren't doing any covert stuff with
1004
00:47:49,983 --> 00:47:53,588
any queue clearance, which is civilian top secret
1005
00:47:53,589 --> 00:47:55,716
clearance or military top secret clearance.
1006
00:47:55,717 --> 00:47:59,858
They go talk to friends and places you've been,
1007
00:47:59,859 --> 00:48:02,082
make sure you're not connected to foreign countries, but,
1008
00:48:02,083 --> 00:48:05,064
you know, monitoring your phone is nothing unusual.
1009
00:48:05,065 --> 00:48:10,066
However, they insisted that, you know, you don't even
1010
00:48:10,067 --> 00:48:12,438
talk to your loved one, to your partner, to
1011
00:48:12,439 --> 00:48:14,886
your wife, whatever, about what's going on.
1012
00:48:14,887 --> 00:48:17,446
So she was essentially in the dark and
1013
00:48:17,447 --> 00:48:19,660
didn't know the phone was being monitored.
1014
00:48:19,661 --> 00:48:24,998
Well, part of the security clearance is that not
1015
00:48:24,999 --> 00:48:26,912
only do you not have any connections to foreign
1016
00:48:26,913 --> 00:48:29,274
countries and aren't a maniac, but you have to
1017
00:48:29,275 --> 00:48:31,258
have a stable home life, too.
1018
00:48:31,259 --> 00:48:32,618
Well, she started having an
1019
00:48:32,619 --> 00:48:35,120
affair with a flight instructor.
1020
00:48:35,121 --> 00:48:37,626
Now, they were monitoring this on the phone
1021
00:48:37,627 --> 00:48:39,412
and they knew it and I didn't.
1022
00:48:39,413 --> 00:48:42,318
So they stopped me coming in.
1023
00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:46,174
And their attitude at the time was, we need to
1024
00:48:46,175 --> 00:48:48,702
see how this is going to play out and if
1025
00:48:48,703 --> 00:48:50,914
Lazar is going to get a little weird or anything.
1026
00:48:50,915 --> 00:48:54,562
So let's just hold him off from
1027
00:48:54,563 --> 00:48:58,098
coming in and see what happens.
1028
00:48:58,099 --> 00:49:00,530
And they explain this to you, what was happening?
1029
00:49:00,531 --> 00:49:03,702
Well, after the fact, yeah, because time kind of went
1030
00:49:03,703 --> 00:49:07,830
on and there were guys that were following me around
1031
00:49:07,831 --> 00:49:11,228
and I started getting a little concerned, going, well, chit,
1032
00:49:11,229 --> 00:49:14,166
are they booting me out of the project?
1033
00:49:14,167 --> 00:49:17,978
And if so, they're not just going to let me hang out
1034
00:49:17,979 --> 00:49:21,146
at home and go get a new job knowing what I know.
1035
00:49:21,147 --> 00:49:24,282
So as time went on, I started getting
1036
00:49:24,283 --> 00:49:27,392
a little concerned and I took my closest
1037
00:49:27,393 --> 00:49:29,050
friends and just kind of got together.
1038
00:49:29,051 --> 00:49:33,260
I said, hey, remember that job I told you about?
1039
00:49:33,261 --> 00:49:36,884
This is what's going on and you don't
1040
00:49:36,885 --> 00:49:38,894
need to take my word for it.
1041
00:49:38,895 --> 00:49:41,298
Wednesday night, we need to all go out here.
1042
00:49:41,299 --> 00:49:42,786
I want to show you what's going on.
1043
00:49:42,787 --> 00:49:46,498
So I took everybody and we went out to
1044
00:49:46,499 --> 00:49:49,346
remember since I had the test flight schedule, and
1045
00:49:49,347 --> 00:49:52,920
went outside the base out into the desert.
1046
00:49:52,921 --> 00:49:55,916
And so everybody could see one of the high performance
1047
00:49:55,917 --> 00:49:59,894
tests and it left quite an imprint on everybody.
1048
00:49:59,895 --> 00:50:01,238
So they knew I wasn't and
1049
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,462
there's videos of these tests, right? Yeah.
1050
00:50:03,463 --> 00:50:06,118
But remember, this is in the it's in
1051
00:50:06,119 --> 00:50:09,088
the dark in the big monster size camcorder
1052
00:50:09,089 --> 00:50:11,834
and you got a bright light jumping around.
1053
00:50:11,835 --> 00:50:14,234
But yeah, I mean, we did video of
1054
00:50:14,235 --> 00:50:17,072
it, but there's no by today's standards.
1055
00:50:17,073 --> 00:50:19,374
But is your video specifically available,
1056
00:50:19,375 --> 00:50:21,022
the video that you took?
1057
00:50:21,023 --> 00:50:23,022
Well, George Knapp has it.
1058
00:50:23,023 --> 00:50:24,302
Is it online?
1059
00:50:24,303 --> 00:50:25,972
I have no idea. Jeremy?
1060
00:50:25,973 --> 00:50:27,860
Yeah, I show clips of it in my film.
1061
00:50:27,861 --> 00:50:30,830
It's online, and someone did a deep analysis of it.
1062
00:50:30,831 --> 00:50:33,538
It was interesting to take a look at how pull
1063
00:50:33,539 --> 00:50:35,458
this microphone up to your face about a fist from
1064
00:50:35,459 --> 00:50:39,586
your face to see how his video looks now.
1065
00:50:39,587 --> 00:50:41,634
But as far as video evidence, I
1066
00:50:41,635 --> 00:50:43,528
mean, we are talking 80s camphors.
1067
00:50:43,529 --> 00:50:45,942
The most important thing is the human story here.
1068
00:50:45,943 --> 00:50:48,230
Everybody that he took up there on three
1069
00:50:48,231 --> 00:50:50,838
separate occasions, they don't all like each other.
1070
00:50:50,839 --> 00:50:52,038
They don't all talk.
1071
00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:53,862
They all agree on one thing.
1072
00:50:53,863 --> 00:50:56,342
They saw something that night at the exact point
1073
00:50:56,343 --> 00:50:58,202
in time and space that Bob Lazar said.
1074
00:50:58,203 --> 00:51:02,010
And remember, this is 1715, 17 miles south of Air 51.
1075
00:51:02,011 --> 00:51:04,026
No one even knew really about Air 51.
1076
00:51:04,027 --> 00:51:05,552
We're talking Papus Lake.
1077
00:51:05,553 --> 00:51:07,658
And they all agree they saw something that
1078
00:51:07,659 --> 00:51:09,648
night they had never seen before and they've
1079
00:51:09,649 --> 00:51:11,838
never seen since right when he said it.
1080
00:51:11,839 --> 00:51:13,422
So that's one of, like, the six things
1081
00:51:13,423 --> 00:51:15,150
where I'm like, how did he know?
1082
00:51:15,151 --> 00:51:16,398
You can dismiss him.
1083
00:51:16,399 --> 00:51:18,948
I tried to dismiss it, but some things we can't
1084
00:51:18,949 --> 00:51:21,698
get around, and there's about five or six of them.
1085
00:51:21,699 --> 00:51:22,738
How did he know about those?
1086
00:51:22,739 --> 00:51:24,002
If Jamie wants to find that video
1087
00:51:24,003 --> 00:51:27,580
right now, what would he look under? Bob Lazar. UFO.
1088
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,106
S four Area 51.
1089
00:51:31,107 --> 00:51:32,278
Just kind of like that.
1090
00:51:32,279 --> 00:51:35,046
So it's like the S four UFO video.
1091
00:51:35,047 --> 00:51:37,430
Bob Lazar and a guy does an analysis, but
1092
00:51:37,431 --> 00:51:42,572
you're analyzing these 80s videos from the very beginning.
1093
00:51:42,573 --> 00:51:45,222
Bob never said, I have proof of my
1094
00:51:45,223 --> 00:51:46,618
story and I'm going to tell the world.
1095
00:51:46,619 --> 00:51:49,866
He said at the very beginning, I cannot prove my story.
1096
00:51:49,867 --> 00:51:51,818
That's not why I'm telling this.
1097
00:51:51,819 --> 00:51:53,882
George Knapp convinced him to tell
1098
00:51:53,883 --> 00:51:55,614
people, and he lived through it.
1099
00:51:55,615 --> 00:51:56,910
And I didn't believe it either
1100
00:51:56,911 --> 00:51:59,060
until I talked with George.
1101
00:51:59,061 --> 00:52:04,302
Okay, so you filmed this test flight, one
1102
00:52:04,303 --> 00:52:06,780
test flight and then you get caught.
1103
00:52:06,781 --> 00:52:09,410
Actually, it was, I think, the third time
1104
00:52:09,411 --> 00:52:12,670
because we went out there the first time.
1105
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:14,802
Everybody saw it.
1106
00:52:14,803 --> 00:52:16,706
Everybody was amazed because it did some
1107
00:52:16,707 --> 00:52:20,610
radical maneuvers and everybody had a lot
1108
00:52:20,611 --> 00:52:21,698
of maneuvers that I've seen.
1109
00:52:21,699 --> 00:52:22,750
I've seen the video.
1110
00:52:23,540 --> 00:52:25,078
I don't think there's something we
1111
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:26,806
have now that does that. No.
1112
00:52:26,807 --> 00:52:30,854
In terms of, like, a human piloted craft, I don't know.
1113
00:52:30,855 --> 00:52:33,116
Obviously what the government no, it's impossible.
1114
00:52:33,117 --> 00:52:34,502
Nothing can move like that.
1115
00:52:34,503 --> 00:52:36,042
And remember, we didn't start
1116
00:52:36,043 --> 00:52:37,860
filming from the very beginning.
1117
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,306
We were waiting for something to happen.
1118
00:52:41,307 --> 00:52:43,658
The craft took off and then came flying at
1119
00:52:43,659 --> 00:52:46,202
us, stopped, turned at a right angle, flew back,
1120
00:52:46,203 --> 00:52:49,658
and then after, it did some amazing stuff to
1121
00:52:49,659 --> 00:52:51,872
get the camera, and then we started filming.
1122
00:52:51,873 --> 00:52:53,902
So it doesn't have all of it on there.
1123
00:52:53,903 --> 00:52:55,998
It just has some the way I describe it to
1124
00:52:55,999 --> 00:52:57,486
my friends, and they said, what does this look like?
1125
00:52:57,487 --> 00:52:59,838
I said, take a laser pointer and then have
1126
00:52:59,839 --> 00:53:01,982
a wall and then move it around the wall.
1127
00:53:01,983 --> 00:53:03,538
Like, you know how it moves around the wall.
1128
00:53:03,539 --> 00:53:04,978
It doesn't seem like it has anything to
1129
00:53:04,979 --> 00:53:07,746
do with inertia or physics or it's not
1130
00:53:07,747 --> 00:53:10,008
impeded in any way by the atmosphere.
1131
00:53:10,009 --> 00:53:11,222
Yeah, that's what it looks like.
1132
00:53:11,223 --> 00:53:14,982
You're essentially separated from reality, as crazy as that
1133
00:53:14,983 --> 00:53:20,396
sounds, with being in case its own gravitational envelope,
1134
00:53:20,397 --> 00:53:22,406
inertia is not going to affect it.
1135
00:53:22,407 --> 00:53:26,848
And this is how some of those recent
1136
00:53:26,849 --> 00:53:29,424
sightings of Commander David Fraver, I'm sure you've
1137
00:53:29,425 --> 00:53:31,280
heard of the Tic TAC, UFO.
1138
00:53:31,281 --> 00:53:34,202
I mean, he describes exactly that the thing
1139
00:53:34,203 --> 00:53:36,544
operates exactly the way I was describing.
1140
00:53:36,545 --> 00:53:39,610
That's why he was interested to talk to me.
1141
00:53:40,220 --> 00:53:44,766
But we saw this, and on the way home,
1142
00:53:44,767 --> 00:53:46,638
it's like, way we got away with it, we
1143
00:53:46,639 --> 00:53:49,022
should try it again the next test flight day.
1144
00:53:49,023 --> 00:53:52,162
So this became a thing to do, and I think
1145
00:53:52,163 --> 00:53:55,880
it was on the third time that we got caught.
1146
00:53:55,881 --> 00:53:58,856
I mean, we started becoming a little careless,
1147
00:53:58,857 --> 00:54:01,010
I think we took a motorhome out there.
1148
00:54:01,700 --> 00:54:03,542
It was like the stupidest thing
1149
00:54:03,543 --> 00:54:05,708
you could possibly start tailgating.
1150
00:54:05,709 --> 00:54:07,700
Yeah, it was ridiculous.
1151
00:54:07,701 --> 00:54:09,814
Again, you're in your 20s. Yeah.
1152
00:54:09,815 --> 00:54:15,626
And what was funny was we went out there and my
1153
00:54:15,627 --> 00:54:18,298
friend Gene Huff and I were leaning on the front of
1154
00:54:18,299 --> 00:54:23,674
a vehicle, and just for some reason, we just started talking
1155
00:54:23,675 --> 00:54:28,330
shit like, well, I hope they realize that.
1156
00:54:29,420 --> 00:54:33,726
I don't remember what we were saying, but something
1157
00:54:33,727 --> 00:54:36,388
about attacking the base or something along those lines
1158
00:54:36,389 --> 00:54:40,080
and stealing the craft or something like that.
1159
00:54:40,081 --> 00:54:43,778
And then about 20ft in front of us, we see a
1160
00:54:43,779 --> 00:54:47,906
little green light fall on the ground and roll to us.
1161
00:54:47,907 --> 00:54:50,386
And unbeknownst to us now, it's pitch black.
1162
00:54:50,387 --> 00:54:52,066
You can't see your hand in front of your face.
1163
00:54:52,067 --> 00:54:54,978
There were a bunch of guards standing right out there, and
1164
00:54:54,979 --> 00:54:57,522
they had a night vision scope where they were, like, from
1165
00:54:57,523 --> 00:55:00,098
here to the wall, looking at us, listening to us, and
1166
00:55:00,099 --> 00:55:02,274
the guy dropped it, and the scope rolled over to us,
1167
00:55:02,275 --> 00:55:03,910
and you could see the green screen.
1168
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,910
We turned the lights on, and all these guys are there.
1169
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,538
So we did incredibly stupid stuff and
1170
00:55:12,539 --> 00:55:13,658
got caught, as we should have.
1171
00:55:13,659 --> 00:55:15,178
Because when they catch you and they
1172
00:55:15,179 --> 00:55:16,778
bring you in, then what happens?
1173
00:55:16,779 --> 00:55:20,334
Well, I went in for debriefing the following day.
1174
00:55:20,335 --> 00:55:22,798
I went to Indian Springs Air Force Base, which
1175
00:55:22,799 --> 00:55:26,078
is kind of a defunct base that they used
1176
00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:28,370
to use at the nuclear test site.
1177
00:55:28,371 --> 00:55:32,786
And this is when they brought out the
1178
00:55:32,787 --> 00:55:35,900
transcript of the phone call with my wife.
1179
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,394
And they sat me down and we said, you
1180
00:55:39,395 --> 00:55:41,922
know, when we meant to keep the secret, we
1181
00:55:41,923 --> 00:55:44,226
meant, you can't tell your friends, right?
1182
00:55:44,227 --> 00:55:46,742
And it's just being sarcastic and trying
1183
00:55:46,743 --> 00:55:49,760
to and then they got real serious.
1184
00:55:50,580 --> 00:55:54,218
But this is where they took the transcript out and
1185
00:55:54,219 --> 00:56:00,442
were reading me what my wife and our friend were
1186
00:56:00,443 --> 00:56:04,570
talking about, and it was a hard time.
1187
00:56:04,571 --> 00:56:06,250
So what happens from there?
1188
00:56:08,060 --> 00:56:09,102
What do they do with you?
1189
00:56:09,103 --> 00:56:10,570
Why don't they arrest you.
1190
00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:16,798
I'm not sure exactly they knew what to do, but they
1191
00:56:16,799 --> 00:56:20,558
did let me go that night, and I went home.
1192
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:22,418
And this is kind of when
1193
00:56:22,419 --> 00:56:24,594
the most stressful part started, because
1194
00:56:24,595 --> 00:56:26,818
you're realizing that you're being monitored. Yeah.
1195
00:56:26,819 --> 00:56:28,882
Now I know, not only am I being
1196
00:56:28,883 --> 00:56:31,180
monitored, but now I know I'm in trouble.
1197
00:56:31,181 --> 00:56:35,820
And it wasn't a short time after that that I contacted.
1198
00:56:35,821 --> 00:56:39,318
At that time, the only investigative reporter I had heard
1199
00:56:39,319 --> 00:56:43,638
of in Las Vegas was George Knapp and told him
1200
00:56:43,639 --> 00:56:45,498
some of the story because I had no idea what
1201
00:56:45,499 --> 00:56:47,338
the hell was going to happen at that point.
1202
00:56:47,339 --> 00:56:52,448
So George Knapp tries to dissect your story, tries
1203
00:56:52,449 --> 00:56:55,418
to find holes in it, tells it, puts it
1204
00:56:55,419 --> 00:56:57,098
online, and makes everybody aware of it.
1205
00:56:57,099 --> 00:56:58,906
And that's how I found out about it. Yeah.
1206
00:56:58,907 --> 00:57:02,718
To make a long story short, what happens yeah, to really
1207
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,182
make a long story short, what happens from there on?
1208
00:57:05,183 --> 00:57:07,684
I mean, do they contact you and say, hey, Bob,
1209
00:57:07,685 --> 00:57:09,630
it's probably a good idea if you shut up?
1210
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,266
Did they try to label you as crazy?
1211
00:57:15,267 --> 00:57:19,138
Was there boy, there were a lot
1212
00:57:19,139 --> 00:57:23,558
of things that happened between that point.
1213
00:57:23,559 --> 00:57:28,050
I'm leaving out a lot of stuff to fill in the story.
1214
00:57:28,580 --> 00:57:30,880
We'd have to go back to Los Alamos.
1215
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,114
Well, I really don't want to talk about that.
1216
00:57:35,115 --> 00:57:40,938
The top secret weapons stuff that you were working on?
1217
00:57:40,939 --> 00:57:43,030
No, I'm talking about the 115.
1218
00:57:46,220 --> 00:57:47,038
Well, I don't know.
1219
00:57:47,039 --> 00:57:48,650
I have to think about how I
1220
00:57:49,420 --> 00:57:52,650
what is the problem with this?
1221
00:57:53,740 --> 00:57:56,436
I don't want to get myself into more trouble by admitting
1222
00:57:56,437 --> 00:57:59,950
something, so I just have to dance around a couple.
1223
00:57:59,951 --> 00:58:02,372
He was rated just during the filming of the movie.
1224
00:58:02,373 --> 00:58:04,402
People thought the movie is great, by the way.
1225
00:58:04,403 --> 00:58:04,946
Thanks, John.
1226
00:58:04,947 --> 00:58:06,882
And it's on Netflix right now if
1227
00:58:06,883 --> 00:58:08,098
anybody wants to check it out.
1228
00:58:08,099 --> 00:58:10,210
And if you're one of those people like me
1229
00:58:10,211 --> 00:58:14,572
who I've always loved the idea of UFOs.
1230
00:58:14,573 --> 00:58:18,022
I became extremely weary talking to people who are
1231
00:58:18,023 --> 00:58:20,838
UFO believers and UFO fanatics because there's so many
1232
00:58:20,839 --> 00:58:22,076
of them that are full of shit.
1233
00:58:22,077 --> 00:58:25,420
And not just full of shit, they're childishly
1234
00:58:25,421 --> 00:58:28,794
delirious, like the way they talk about things.
1235
00:58:28,795 --> 00:58:29,882
I mean, there's so many people
1236
00:58:29,883 --> 00:58:32,360
that are that I'm in contact.
1237
00:58:32,361 --> 00:58:34,618
They reach me in the night and they explain to
1238
00:58:34,619 --> 00:58:37,050
me what we're doing to the ocean is wrong.
1239
00:58:37,900 --> 00:58:39,652
Okay, this is one of the reasons
1240
00:58:39,653 --> 00:58:40,846
I didn't want to do the show.
1241
00:58:40,847 --> 00:58:46,372
I'm sure it's no joke.
1242
00:58:46,373 --> 00:58:49,124
We've had people literally camp out on our front lawn.
1243
00:58:49,125 --> 00:58:54,706
And in some ways, I can relate to some of these people.
1244
00:58:54,707 --> 00:58:56,402
Maybe some of them did really have
1245
00:58:56,403 --> 00:58:58,226
some kind of experience or saw something,
1246
00:58:58,227 --> 00:59:00,210
and all their friends think they're crazy.
1247
00:59:00,211 --> 00:59:02,498
But hey, now there's this guy I heard on the
1248
00:59:02,499 --> 00:59:06,198
radio, and at least he knows I'm not full of
1249
00:59:06,199 --> 00:59:08,102
shit, so I got to talk to him.
1250
00:59:08,103 --> 00:59:11,158
And so most of the correspondence I get are
1251
00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:12,822
people trying to get a hold of me going,
1252
00:59:12,823 --> 00:59:14,634
Bob, you got to listen to me.
1253
00:59:14,635 --> 00:59:16,282
I'm coming to talk to you.
1254
00:59:16,283 --> 00:59:20,442
I'm driving from Oklahoma or whatever, but
1255
00:59:20,443 --> 00:59:22,442
some of them are just fucking bad
1256
00:59:22,443 --> 00:59:24,656
shit, crazy and they're frightening.
1257
00:59:24,657 --> 00:59:26,154
There's a lot of schizophrenics that
1258
00:59:26,155 --> 00:59:29,018
are involved in the conspiracy world.
1259
00:59:29,019 --> 00:59:30,894
There's a lot of people that have real issues.
1260
00:59:30,895 --> 00:59:33,422
Joe, it would be a disservice to your
1261
00:59:33,423 --> 00:59:36,718
audience to not say that we have to
1262
00:59:36,719 --> 00:59:38,430
look at what's going on now and understand.
1263
00:59:38,431 --> 00:59:40,642
I've heard on your show a bunch of stuff
1264
00:59:40,643 --> 00:59:43,266
about what's going on now and to not really
1265
00:59:43,267 --> 00:59:46,872
understand what's going on now, you can't see Bob's
1266
00:59:46,873 --> 00:59:49,506
story in the correct light after 30 years.
1267
00:59:49,507 --> 00:59:51,522
And at some point we should just touch
1268
00:59:51,523 --> 00:59:55,462
upon that, the biggest being that things like
1269
00:59:55,463 --> 00:59:58,038
the Tic TAC UFO case that came out.
1270
00:59:58,039 --> 01:00:00,006
I've heard people even on the show say,
1271
01:00:00,007 --> 01:00:01,884
oh, there's a glitch in the radar.
1272
01:00:01,885 --> 01:00:04,124
That's a data poor perspective.
1273
01:00:04,125 --> 01:00:06,502
You just don't know yet what's really going on.
1274
01:00:06,503 --> 01:00:08,858
Commander Fraver, I was able to get the interview with
1275
01:00:08,859 --> 01:00:11,270
him, to talk with him way before it became public.
1276
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,122
I got that from him. He saw it.
1277
01:00:14,123 --> 01:00:15,786
Other pilots saw it.
1278
01:00:15,787 --> 01:00:18,506
This is a big thing that's going on right now.
1279
01:00:18,507 --> 01:00:21,668
They had more sightings on the East Coast recently.
1280
01:00:21,669 --> 01:00:23,668
Cubes with spherical ores.
1281
01:00:23,669 --> 01:00:25,374
These are not aerodynamic, and these are the
1282
01:00:25,375 --> 01:00:27,380
people we trust to defend us on 911.
1283
01:00:27,381 --> 01:00:30,020
Commander favorite protected Los Angeles on 911.
1284
01:00:30,021 --> 01:00:33,288
So we trust them, but they're not trained observers.
1285
01:00:33,289 --> 01:00:35,682
Radar individuals see these things.
1286
01:00:35,683 --> 01:00:37,858
And the big one just to throw down so
1287
01:00:37,859 --> 01:00:39,352
we can consider a story a little differently.
1288
01:00:39,353 --> 01:00:40,518
There's more depth to it.
1289
01:00:40,519 --> 01:00:42,486
The big one is the United States
1290
01:00:42,487 --> 01:00:44,822
government has admitted that they have been
1291
01:00:44,823 --> 01:00:47,484
continuously studying the UFO phenomenon.
1292
01:00:47,485 --> 01:00:50,092
That program was called ATIP.
1293
01:00:50,093 --> 01:00:53,964
Advanced was called OSSAP.
1294
01:00:53,965 --> 01:00:55,914
That's the mother program.
1295
01:00:55,915 --> 01:00:57,642
George Knapp got that out.
1296
01:00:57,643 --> 01:00:58,698
They announced to The New York
1297
01:00:58,699 --> 01:01:01,392
Times about ATIP But OSSAP.
1298
01:01:01,393 --> 01:01:02,752
These acronyms OSSAP.
1299
01:01:02,753 --> 01:01:03,968
Advanced aerospace, weapons
1300
01:01:03,969 --> 01:01:06,080
systems, applications, program. Who cares?
1301
01:01:06,081 --> 01:01:07,434
That was the mother program.
1302
01:01:07,435 --> 01:01:09,184
So they've admitted, we didn't stop studying
1303
01:01:09,185 --> 01:01:11,582
UFOs in 1969 with Project Blue Book.
1304
01:01:11,583 --> 01:01:12,894
We don't think it's crazy.
1305
01:01:12,895 --> 01:01:15,134
We actually want to reverse engineer the technology.
1306
01:01:15,135 --> 01:01:16,574
That's why on your other show
1307
01:01:16,575 --> 01:01:18,142
you said, what's this AAV thing?
1308
01:01:18,143 --> 01:01:20,078
It's like they're making up another UFO name.
1309
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:21,586
Well, hold on. There's a reason.
1310
01:01:21,587 --> 01:01:24,658
Because in the documents, the Dia documents that
1311
01:01:24,659 --> 01:01:26,968
George Knapp released that everybody said was fake
1312
01:01:26,969 --> 01:01:29,042
till now they know is real, they call
1313
01:01:29,043 --> 01:01:33,960
them AAVs, which is Advanced Aerospace Vehicles.
1314
01:01:33,961 --> 01:01:35,446
People are getting the acronyms wrong.
1315
01:01:35,447 --> 01:01:38,518
So the reason for the terminology change is so that
1316
01:01:38,519 --> 01:01:41,196
we can mimic what we're reading in the Dia documents.
1317
01:01:41,197 --> 01:01:42,694
People can look for that now.
1318
01:01:42,695 --> 01:01:45,968
So they changed the names to get people away from UFO
1319
01:01:45,969 --> 01:01:49,594
or UAP, even, like Hillary Clinton said on air, right?
1320
01:01:49,595 --> 01:01:51,520
What are you talking about, hillary Clinton?
1321
01:01:51,521 --> 01:01:55,504
Hillary Clinton informed the public on Jimmy Kimmel.
1322
01:01:55,505 --> 01:01:56,224
Oh, Jimmy.
1323
01:01:56,225 --> 01:01:58,180
We don't call them UFOs anymore.
1324
01:01:58,181 --> 01:01:59,716
We call them UAPs.
1325
01:01:59,717 --> 01:02:02,382
Unidentified Aerial phenomenon. Right.
1326
01:02:02,383 --> 01:02:04,158
So she kind of was giving the
1327
01:02:04,159 --> 01:02:06,260
Clintons are very into the UFO topic.
1328
01:02:06,261 --> 01:02:09,134
Senator Reid, he's done a lot for
1329
01:02:09,135 --> 01:02:11,490
the subject, the study of it. Right.
1330
01:02:11,491 --> 01:02:13,314
So she informed the public so they
1331
01:02:13,315 --> 01:02:14,600
could look for the right term.
1332
01:02:14,601 --> 01:02:17,682
So these terms are important because the dia in
1333
01:02:17,683 --> 01:02:21,222
those documents, they've been calling them AAVs for quite
1334
01:02:21,223 --> 01:02:23,366
some time now, and they changed the name to
1335
01:02:23,367 --> 01:02:26,960
anomalous no, that's kind of a misnomer.
1336
01:02:27,940 --> 01:02:29,558
They always mess around with
1337
01:02:29,559 --> 01:02:31,628
things, but it's actually advanced.
1338
01:02:31,629 --> 01:02:33,606
Right, but when they're describing it in the news,
1339
01:02:33,607 --> 01:02:35,920
they were calling it anomalous totally space vehicle.
1340
01:02:35,921 --> 01:02:37,002
Totally. And that's cool.
1341
01:02:37,003 --> 01:02:40,912
They were also saying anomalous aerospace threats AAT.
1342
01:02:40,913 --> 01:02:41,242
Right.
1343
01:02:41,243 --> 01:02:43,264
Because they want the sense of a threat.
1344
01:02:43,265 --> 01:02:46,842
So my point is, if people don't know this now
1345
01:02:46,843 --> 01:02:49,434
and they think this stuff is fantasy, this part of
1346
01:02:49,435 --> 01:02:51,508
it that we're studying it, that we take it seriously,
1347
01:02:51,509 --> 01:02:54,206
we're spending money on it, and that we're getting great
1348
01:02:54,207 --> 01:02:56,852
data from visual pilots to radar.
1349
01:02:56,853 --> 01:02:58,228
That's why we know it's aerospace.
1350
01:02:58,229 --> 01:03:00,686
They dropped from 80,000ft. But guess what?
1351
01:03:00,687 --> 01:03:04,824
That's the top scope of the Spy One radar is 80,000ft.
1352
01:03:04,825 --> 01:03:06,530
So the radar system they were using,
1353
01:03:06,531 --> 01:03:08,178
it was coming from above that.
1354
01:03:08,179 --> 01:03:10,160
So my point is this.
1355
01:03:10,161 --> 01:03:13,672
If you don't understand that this is happening, you're
1356
01:03:13,673 --> 01:03:16,086
just behind the curve because you don't have the
1357
01:03:16,087 --> 01:03:19,046
information because of the stigma that you're talking about.
1358
01:03:19,047 --> 01:03:21,820
I saw you get totally upset with the UFO topic.
1359
01:03:21,821 --> 01:03:22,662
I met you first.
1360
01:03:22,663 --> 01:03:23,754
When you get totally upset with
1361
01:03:23,755 --> 01:03:25,658
the UFO topic, it's the people.
1362
01:03:25,659 --> 01:03:29,402
When you're doing your I'm sorry, man.
1363
01:03:29,403 --> 01:03:30,890
When you're doing your show,
1364
01:03:30,891 --> 01:03:33,034
the Joe Organ questions everything.
1365
01:03:33,035 --> 01:03:36,522
I could see how frustrating is trust
1366
01:03:36,523 --> 01:03:38,202
me, I have been frustrated to hell.
1367
01:03:38,203 --> 01:03:40,324
Luckily, my mentor is George Knapp, and he's taught
1368
01:03:40,325 --> 01:03:43,198
me the pitfalls as I went through it.
1369
01:03:43,199 --> 01:03:45,902
My whole point in this rant right here is
1370
01:03:45,903 --> 01:03:48,052
just that we have to now look at Bob's
1371
01:03:48,053 --> 01:03:51,844
story but knowing the facts, not someone saying it's
1372
01:03:51,845 --> 01:03:54,056
a bird, it's a plane, it's a glitch.
1373
01:03:54,057 --> 01:03:56,178
They're not and so if you don't know
1374
01:03:56,179 --> 01:03:58,082
that, you just don't have the information yet.
1375
01:03:58,083 --> 01:03:58,642
Not just that.
1376
01:03:58,643 --> 01:04:02,258
Knowing the facts as we know him in 2019, not in 1988.
1377
01:04:02,259 --> 01:04:02,910
Absolutely.
1378
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,662
So what has he said that has come true?
1379
01:04:06,663 --> 01:04:08,662
He's totally unimpressed with it. Right?
1380
01:04:08,663 --> 01:04:09,846
What has he said that's come true?
1381
01:04:09,847 --> 01:04:11,388
So I was like, Bob, they've
1382
01:04:11,389 --> 01:04:13,404
announced gravity as a wave.
1383
01:04:13,405 --> 01:04:15,404
You were right, man. You're vindicated.
1384
01:04:15,405 --> 01:04:17,018
And he looks at me and he's like, well,
1385
01:04:17,019 --> 01:04:18,538
if you think about it, Jeremy, I had like
1386
01:04:18,539 --> 01:04:22,682
a 50 50 chance he was not very impressed. Right.
1387
01:04:22,683 --> 01:04:25,104
When did they announce gravity as a wave?
1388
01:04:25,105 --> 01:04:26,618
So they detected in a
1389
01:04:26,619 --> 01:04:29,024
sense, they detected gravity waves.
1390
01:04:29,025 --> 01:04:30,440
Who is they?
1391
01:04:30,441 --> 01:04:31,422
You might know more.
1392
01:04:31,423 --> 01:04:33,294
There's two black holes that were colliding and
1393
01:04:33,295 --> 01:04:35,102
that's how they were able to detect yeah.
1394
01:04:35,103 --> 01:04:37,518
Somebody built I don't know which group it was or
1395
01:04:37,519 --> 01:04:40,322
what part of the government that's what Google's for.
1396
01:04:40,323 --> 01:04:44,408
Yeah, but they built a gigantic gravity
1397
01:04:44,409 --> 01:04:48,562
wave detector and pretty much detected did
1398
01:04:48,563 --> 01:04:50,792
there are such things as gravity waves.
1399
01:04:50,793 --> 01:04:53,576
First observation of gravitational waves.
1400
01:04:53,577 --> 01:04:56,966
It says it was in 2016. Okay.
1401
01:04:56,967 --> 01:04:59,382
The first observation of gravitational waves was made
1402
01:04:59,383 --> 01:05:02,998
on 14 September 2015, as announced by the
1403
01:05:02,999 --> 01:05:07,360
LIGO and Virgo collaborators on the 11 February
1404
01:05:07,361 --> 01:05:11,072
2016 previously, gravitational waves had only been inferred
1405
01:05:11,073 --> 01:05:14,426
indirectly via their effect on the timing of
1406
01:05:14,427 --> 01:05:16,800
pulsars in binary star systems.
1407
01:05:16,801 --> 01:05:18,600
Dun dun dum.
1408
01:05:18,601 --> 01:05:24,734
The waveform connected by both LIGO LIGO observatories matched the
1409
01:05:24,735 --> 01:05:33,426
predictions of general relativity for a gravitational wave emanating from
1410
01:05:33,427 --> 01:05:36,520
the inward I'm trying to get this from the inward
1411
01:05:36,521 --> 01:05:40,050
spiral and merger of a pair of black holes around
1412
01:05:40,051 --> 01:05:44,774
36 and 29 solar masses and the subsequent ring down
1413
01:05:44,775 --> 01:05:47,676
of the single resulting black hole.
1414
01:05:47,677 --> 01:05:50,518
Well, yeah, it's no, he was in.
1415
01:05:50,519 --> 01:05:53,228
The predominant theory was gravity
1416
01:05:53,229 --> 01:05:55,730
is produced by gravitons okay.
1417
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,496
Theoretical particles.
1418
01:05:58,497 --> 01:06:00,672
But they're not they're waves.
1419
01:06:00,673 --> 01:06:02,200
They're not particles.
1420
01:06:02,201 --> 01:06:05,408
The thought is that the way we experience gravity,
1421
01:06:05,409 --> 01:06:08,768
it's based on mass, which is why the Moon,
1422
01:06:08,769 --> 01:06:11,614
which is roughly one quarter the size of the
1423
01:06:11,615 --> 01:06:13,652
Earth, has one 6th of the Earth's gravity.
1424
01:06:13,653 --> 01:06:14,948
So there's some sort of a computation
1425
01:06:14,949 --> 01:06:16,990
you can make based on mass. Right.
1426
01:06:16,991 --> 01:06:21,668
And remember, we can observe the effects of gravity,
1427
01:06:21,669 --> 01:06:24,722
but we have no idea what it is.
1428
01:06:24,723 --> 01:06:27,202
All we can do is observe it, and we can't make it.
1429
01:06:27,203 --> 01:06:29,522
The only way you can make gravity is just putting
1430
01:06:29,523 --> 01:06:32,540
more mass together, and it's just a product of gravity.
1431
01:06:32,541 --> 01:06:35,846
But if you have a machine that makes
1432
01:06:35,847 --> 01:06:38,918
gravity, you can pretty much do anything.
1433
01:06:38,919 --> 01:06:42,140
You can affect time, you can have force fields,
1434
01:06:42,141 --> 01:06:45,552
all that stuff that's, in science fiction becomes reality
1435
01:06:45,553 --> 01:06:48,528
if you have a machine that can make gravity.
1436
01:06:48,529 --> 01:06:49,994
And what we worked on in the
1437
01:06:49,995 --> 01:06:53,104
desert was a machine that makes gravity.
1438
01:06:53,105 --> 01:06:55,598
I love your analogy of dropping off a
1439
01:06:55,599 --> 01:06:58,532
small nuclear reactor to the Victorian era.
1440
01:06:58,533 --> 01:07:01,262
I love that analogy because
1441
01:07:01,263 --> 01:07:03,236
back then, that was impossible.
1442
01:07:03,237 --> 01:07:04,940
That was magic.
1443
01:07:04,941 --> 01:07:06,910
What you're talking about here.
1444
01:07:06,911 --> 01:07:09,454
The fact that they just discovered this four
1445
01:07:09,455 --> 01:07:12,640
years ago, that this is a wave.
1446
01:07:12,641 --> 01:07:14,658
As much as we know and as impressed as
1447
01:07:14,659 --> 01:07:17,090
we are, as we should be with how much
1448
01:07:17,091 --> 01:07:20,444
more technologically advanced we are than every other creature
1449
01:07:20,445 --> 01:07:23,014
on this planet, we're still, in many ways, in
1450
01:07:23,015 --> 01:07:26,050
the adolescence of technological innovation. Absolutely.
1451
01:07:27,300 --> 01:07:29,308
If even adolescence.
1452
01:07:29,309 --> 01:07:33,430
And when you're talking about this binary star system
1453
01:07:33,431 --> 01:07:37,194
and Zeta Reticuli and who knows how much longer
1454
01:07:37,195 --> 01:07:38,954
these things have been around than us?
1455
01:07:38,955 --> 01:07:41,962
Who knows what their evolutionary cycle has been?
1456
01:07:41,963 --> 01:07:43,480
Who knows?
1457
01:07:43,481 --> 01:07:44,864
We might be talking about something that's
1458
01:07:44,865 --> 01:07:46,814
a million years more advanced than us.
1459
01:07:46,815 --> 01:07:48,890
Yeah, it could easily be.
1460
01:07:50,700 --> 01:07:52,820
Believe it or not, I'm not into UFOs.
1461
01:07:52,821 --> 01:07:54,340
I don't follow stories.
1462
01:07:54,341 --> 01:07:56,804
Or even after your experiences?
1463
01:07:56,805 --> 01:08:01,298
No, I'm fascinated with the technology, and it irks me.
1464
01:08:01,299 --> 01:08:02,872
Like, every night I go to sleep
1465
01:08:02,873 --> 01:08:08,460
that it was my own doing, essentially.
1466
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,690
That prevented me from continuing on in the project.
1467
01:08:14,100 --> 01:08:15,638
To be on that cutting edge of
1468
01:08:15,639 --> 01:08:18,774
technology is so alluring to me, right?
1469
01:08:18,775 --> 01:08:23,526
But by the same token, I don't really care
1470
01:08:23,527 --> 01:08:25,366
that there's aliens or where they come from.
1471
01:08:25,367 --> 01:08:27,258
I mean, the prize is the technology,
1472
01:08:27,259 --> 01:08:29,162
and that's what I'm fascinated by.
1473
01:08:29,163 --> 01:08:31,337
So I don't listen to UFO stories and that sort
1474
01:08:31,338 --> 01:08:35,818
of thing, but George Knapp, he's the guy that has
1475
01:08:35,819 --> 01:08:39,837
the contacts and tries to thread everything together, and what
1476
01:08:39,838 --> 01:08:42,877
he recently told me is he found, I don't know,
1477
01:08:42,878 --> 01:08:45,438
is either documentation or people that he spoke to.
1478
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,870
It's at the existence of this project,
1479
01:08:47,871 --> 01:08:49,442
the project that I was on.
1480
01:08:49,443 --> 01:08:53,362
It's something that they seem to take
1481
01:08:53,363 --> 01:08:54,993
out every eight or ten years.
1482
01:08:54,994 --> 01:08:58,993
So that's a very specific memo, and this is the
1483
01:08:58,994 --> 01:09:00,913
first time I'll be very clear with people about it.
1484
01:09:00,914 --> 01:09:03,221
It's a big topic of conversation right now.
1485
01:09:03,222 --> 01:09:05,260
It's called the Wilson memo.
1486
01:09:05,261 --> 01:09:06,566
You can look it up.
1487
01:09:06,567 --> 01:09:09,782
Admiral Wilson met with a scientist who actually
1488
01:09:09,783 --> 01:09:11,804
was featured in one of my films.
1489
01:09:11,805 --> 01:09:14,486
Everybody has been debating whether or not this
1490
01:09:14,487 --> 01:09:19,184
document of a conversation with a sitting admiral
1491
01:09:19,185 --> 01:09:21,536
at the time is a real document.
1492
01:09:21,537 --> 01:09:23,242
It's an actual conversation that happened,
1493
01:09:23,243 --> 01:09:24,874
and this document is real. Everybody wants to know.
1494
01:09:24,875 --> 01:09:27,305
The world is going crazy right now in the UFO world.
1495
01:09:27,306 --> 01:09:30,718
I'll tell you straight up right now, I'm in the position to
1496
01:09:30,719 --> 01:09:34,974
know, and it is a real document that it is real.
1497
01:09:34,975 --> 01:09:36,718
So the conversation you read in
1498
01:09:36,719 --> 01:09:39,166
that that conversation was had.
1499
01:09:39,167 --> 01:09:41,746
I can't attest to every you're not being very clear.
1500
01:09:41,747 --> 01:09:43,810
Sure, please, no problem.
1501
01:09:43,811 --> 01:09:45,761
So there was a document that is
1502
01:09:45,762 --> 01:09:47,729
circulating right now that is really big.
1503
01:09:47,730 --> 01:09:48,872
It's going around everywhere.
1504
01:09:48,873 --> 01:09:50,840
People are asking, what is this document?
1505
01:09:50,841 --> 01:09:52,870
It's called the Wilson Memo is
1506
01:09:52,871 --> 01:09:54,210
how you can find it online.
1507
01:09:54,900 --> 01:09:57,638
Or the Wilson leak. There it is. Jimmy's got it.
1508
01:09:57,639 --> 01:09:59,148
The Wilson memorandum.
1509
01:09:59,149 --> 01:10:00,348
Use of human vulnerability.
1510
01:10:00,349 --> 01:10:03,060
No, that's not it.
1511
01:10:03,061 --> 01:10:07,798
So Admiral Wilson meets with this scientist, and
1512
01:10:07,799 --> 01:10:10,250
they have this discussion, oddly enough, at special
1513
01:10:10,251 --> 01:10:11,770
Projects at E, G and G.
1514
01:10:11,771 --> 01:10:14,202
And if I remember, the document is from 2001.
1515
01:10:14,203 --> 01:10:16,330
I'm telling everybody right now it's real.
1516
01:10:16,331 --> 01:10:17,162
And we'll see.
1517
01:10:17,163 --> 01:10:18,666
My history is pretty good with, like,
1518
01:10:18,667 --> 01:10:21,134
saying if something's real or not, right? So here we go.
1519
01:10:21,135 --> 01:10:22,158
The document comes out.
1520
01:10:22,159 --> 01:10:26,318
They meet at Eg and G Special Projects in 1989.
1521
01:10:26,319 --> 01:10:28,702
They they stumble into a problem.
1522
01:10:28,703 --> 01:10:29,806
This happens.
1523
01:10:29,807 --> 01:10:32,818
They put the technology away, and then they bring
1524
01:10:32,819 --> 01:10:35,266
it back out and see if material science has
1525
01:10:35,267 --> 01:10:37,624
caught up and if they can make any progress.
1526
01:10:37,625 --> 01:10:40,306
So this document kind of talks about this process.
1527
01:10:40,307 --> 01:10:41,938
The big thing I get from it, and
1528
01:10:41,939 --> 01:10:43,596
a lot of it's vindicating to Bob.
1529
01:10:43,597 --> 01:10:45,638
And one of the things that's vindicating besides the
1530
01:10:45,639 --> 01:10:49,164
Eg and G thing is that private industry.
1531
01:10:49,165 --> 01:10:52,358
So this guy's an admiral, and he says, I
1532
01:10:52,359 --> 01:10:55,210
found out about your SAP, your special access program.
1533
01:10:55,211 --> 01:10:56,810
I need to know about it.
1534
01:10:56,811 --> 01:10:59,482
And he's going to a private part of
1535
01:10:59,483 --> 01:11:03,242
industry, and he is denied access, and he
1536
01:11:03,243 --> 01:11:05,914
says, I should be running this program.
1537
01:11:05,915 --> 01:11:08,922
And they were able to deny him access.
1538
01:11:08,923 --> 01:11:11,726
So I think the takeaway here is, check it out.
1539
01:11:11,727 --> 01:11:14,270
I'm telling you that that is an actual correct.
1540
01:11:14,271 --> 01:11:15,156
That is a leak.
1541
01:11:15,157 --> 01:11:17,134
Now, everything said in that document I
1542
01:11:17,135 --> 01:11:18,590
don't know what are you talking about?
1543
01:11:18,591 --> 01:11:20,200
What is said in that document specifically?
1544
01:11:20,201 --> 01:11:23,362
It's between a scientist and an admiral that are
1545
01:11:23,363 --> 01:11:26,130
sitting and they're having a meeting, and they're talking
1546
01:11:26,131 --> 01:11:30,002
about the search for the UFO subject, the search
1547
01:11:30,003 --> 01:11:33,638
to get special access, program access to all of
1548
01:11:33,639 --> 01:11:37,244
these different things like reverse engineering programs.
1549
01:11:37,245 --> 01:11:40,340
So in this document, they talk about it.
1550
01:11:40,341 --> 01:11:43,782
I believe that this document, that the person that went
1551
01:11:43,783 --> 01:11:46,214
was employed by Robert Bigelow, one of the guys that
1552
01:11:46,215 --> 01:11:48,266
has a couple of orbiting satellites and all that stuff.
1553
01:11:48,267 --> 01:11:48,736
Who's?
1554
01:11:48,737 --> 01:11:51,594
The guy owns Skinwalker Ranch. No, he's not.
1555
01:11:51,595 --> 01:11:54,426
He was the guy that owned Skinwalker. Okay.
1556
01:11:54,427 --> 01:11:55,338
Yeah, he used to own it.
1557
01:11:55,339 --> 01:11:57,738
There's a new owner, and I interview him for
1558
01:11:57,739 --> 01:12:00,398
my other film, but there's a new owner, and
1559
01:12:00,399 --> 01:12:02,798
you'll be hearing a lot more about that soon.
1560
01:12:02,799 --> 01:12:06,142
But there's stuff that you'll be hearing about
1561
01:12:06,143 --> 01:12:08,132
Skinwalker Ranch soon because there's a new owner.
1562
01:12:08,133 --> 01:12:10,968
Anyway, the whole point of this insertion
1563
01:12:10,969 --> 01:12:14,338
here is just that that document kind
1564
01:12:14,339 --> 01:12:16,610
of validates a lot of this idea.
1565
01:12:16,611 --> 01:12:19,272
Bob just said that they make a little progress,
1566
01:12:19,273 --> 01:12:21,586
then they can't go anywhere, they tuck it away,
1567
01:12:21,587 --> 01:12:24,166
and then they bring it back out ten years
1568
01:12:24,167 --> 01:12:26,038
later and start working on it.
1569
01:12:26,039 --> 01:12:27,388
What is the limiting factor?
1570
01:12:27,389 --> 01:12:28,534
I think Bob should speak on
1571
01:12:28,535 --> 01:12:31,238
this, but it's the material science. Yeah.
1572
01:12:31,239 --> 01:12:33,558
It's really where physics is, so
1573
01:12:33,559 --> 01:12:35,066
I can see them doing that.
1574
01:12:35,067 --> 01:12:39,162
I mean, I didn't have any information on that, but
1575
01:12:39,163 --> 01:12:43,802
I think what George uncovered is probably accurate, that we
1576
01:12:43,803 --> 01:12:46,042
try and do what we can, and once we reach
1577
01:12:46,043 --> 01:12:49,038
a roadblock on, we really can't figure it out.
1578
01:12:49,039 --> 01:12:52,446
It's just friggin wait, put the thing away, wait
1579
01:12:52,447 --> 01:12:55,486
for science to catch up, and a decade later,
1580
01:12:55,487 --> 01:12:57,406
let's take the project out again and see.
1581
01:12:57,407 --> 01:12:59,902
All right, now where can we go? But there's got to be
1582
01:12:59,903 --> 01:13:02,642
someone who remains informed, right? Oh, yeah.
1583
01:13:02,643 --> 01:13:05,576
You've got your scientists like you and Barry.
1584
01:13:05,577 --> 01:13:07,432
You got your people that you compartmentalize.
1585
01:13:07,433 --> 01:13:08,578
You got these people working. Yeah.
1586
01:13:08,579 --> 01:13:11,394
There has to be some people that know everything.
1587
01:13:11,395 --> 01:13:14,114
You've got security and then someone's going
1588
01:13:14,115 --> 01:13:15,926
to be on the outside saying, hey,
1589
01:13:15,927 --> 01:13:17,654
we need people to guard this building.
1590
01:13:17,655 --> 01:13:19,526
Don't let anybody in for ten years.
1591
01:13:19,527 --> 01:13:21,868
I think a lot of that is private industry,
1592
01:13:21,869 --> 01:13:23,302
and I think that's how they keep it.
1593
01:13:23,303 --> 01:13:24,828
Yeah, I think that's how they literally
1594
01:13:24,829 --> 01:13:27,520
because the government is just so leaky.
1595
01:13:27,521 --> 01:13:29,306
I think that's kind of what they're doing.
1596
01:13:29,307 --> 01:13:30,912
That's what the document kind of proves.
1597
01:13:30,913 --> 01:13:33,258
You just articulated that, that it
1598
01:13:33,259 --> 01:13:34,656
is in control of private industry.
1599
01:13:34,657 --> 01:13:36,164
What private industry?
1600
01:13:36,165 --> 01:13:38,478
Some aerospace company, something. I don't know.
1601
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:40,958
Yeah, the Admiral wouldn't name it
1602
01:13:40,959 --> 01:13:43,100
in the car in the conversation.
1603
01:13:43,101 --> 01:13:46,062
So they still have these
1604
01:13:46,063 --> 01:13:49,710
things supposedly, I would guess.
1605
01:13:49,711 --> 01:13:51,922
I mean, I don't have any information on have you
1606
01:13:51,923 --> 01:13:57,234
ever asked anyone that has any inkling of any idea
1607
01:13:57,235 --> 01:14:00,082
of where they got them or how they got them?
1608
01:14:00,083 --> 01:14:04,210
No, but something must have been said to me
1609
01:14:05,140 --> 01:14:09,142
from Barry, but it was just too long ago.
1610
01:14:09,143 --> 01:14:11,958
And I can't quite remember what was said, but
1611
01:14:11,959 --> 01:14:13,686
it just left a seed in my mind.
1612
01:14:13,687 --> 01:14:15,094
I think at least one of them
1613
01:14:15,095 --> 01:14:17,270
was part of an archaeological dig.
1614
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,550
So it's old.
1615
01:14:21,480 --> 01:14:23,066
At least one of them is old.
1616
01:14:23,067 --> 01:14:24,538
I don't know if it was the one I worked on,
1617
01:14:24,539 --> 01:14:28,206
but I remember something to do with an archaeological dig.
1618
01:14:28,207 --> 01:14:28,948
Whoa.
1619
01:14:28,949 --> 01:14:32,436
So that means it's not just old, it's ancient.
1620
01:14:32,437 --> 01:14:34,436
That'd be a great Steven Spielberg movie.
1621
01:14:34,437 --> 01:14:35,530
Yeah, right?
1622
01:14:37,020 --> 01:14:38,350
As all of it would.
1623
01:14:38,351 --> 01:14:39,438
Yeah, that tripped me out when he
1624
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,054
said that for the first time.
1625
01:14:41,055 --> 01:14:42,242
That's a freak out. Right?
1626
01:14:42,243 --> 01:14:44,082
There a couple of dudes with some
1627
01:14:44,083 --> 01:14:46,568
brushes looking for a Tyrannosaurus rex bone.
1628
01:14:46,569 --> 01:14:47,496
They hit metal.
1629
01:14:47,497 --> 01:14:49,106
And when did they find it?
1630
01:14:49,107 --> 01:14:50,594
That they have nine of them.
1631
01:14:50,595 --> 01:14:53,426
Well and how could we have not heard about that?
1632
01:14:53,427 --> 01:14:55,276
What about the guys with the brushes?
1633
01:14:55,277 --> 01:14:57,894
How could you uncover something like that?
1634
01:14:57,895 --> 01:14:59,654
Joe's newspaper at home does.
1635
01:14:59,655 --> 01:15:01,494
I mean, they said it on that first day.
1636
01:15:01,495 --> 01:15:02,800
Oh, you mean the roswell.
1637
01:15:03,460 --> 01:15:04,966
Yeah, I have a cover.
1638
01:15:04,967 --> 01:15:06,124
What is this here, Jamie?
1639
01:15:06,125 --> 01:15:07,638
This is the document, but I had
1640
01:15:07,639 --> 01:15:08,986
to do some digging to find it.
1641
01:15:08,987 --> 01:15:11,434
Yes, it's just kind of this is
1642
01:15:11,435 --> 01:15:12,618
where they meet at Eg and G.
1643
01:15:12,619 --> 01:15:13,808
And this is Admiral Wilson.
1644
01:15:13,809 --> 01:15:14,858
And there's a lot more coming out.
1645
01:15:14,859 --> 01:15:15,626
Now, I want to be clear.
1646
01:15:15,627 --> 01:15:17,386
George didn't put this out.
1647
01:15:17,387 --> 01:15:20,220
He didn't leak this out to anybody.
1648
01:15:20,221 --> 01:15:22,916
I can tell you how I recorded this conversation.
1649
01:15:22,917 --> 01:15:26,356
So this was an employee of at the time, Robert Bigelow.
1650
01:15:26,357 --> 01:15:28,878
And this is in 2002. Right. Do you remember when he had
1651
01:15:28,879 --> 01:15:30,644
that government contract called OSSAP?
1652
01:15:30,645 --> 01:15:32,178
The world all knows about now, and
1653
01:15:32,179 --> 01:15:34,850
he had NIDS that studied the ranch. That 22 million.
1654
01:15:34,851 --> 01:15:36,178
Everybody is saying it was for
1655
01:15:36,179 --> 01:15:40,480
ATIP advanced aerospace threat identification program.
1656
01:15:40,481 --> 01:15:43,640
The $22 million was for OSAP.
1657
01:15:43,641 --> 01:15:45,436
That was pushed through through Congress.
1658
01:15:45,437 --> 01:15:46,886
Three Congressmen. Right.
1659
01:15:46,887 --> 01:15:48,092
An astronaut.
1660
01:15:48,093 --> 01:15:49,590
It was pushed through.
1661
01:15:49,591 --> 01:15:51,750
And that's what that $22 million.
1662
01:15:51,751 --> 01:15:53,078
By the way, they spend more money on
1663
01:15:53,079 --> 01:15:55,116
Viagra every year than they do studying UFOs.
1664
01:15:55,117 --> 01:15:56,698
If it was just this program, which I think is
1665
01:15:56,699 --> 01:15:59,088
funny, they made a lot more money from Viagra.
1666
01:15:59,089 --> 01:16:00,480
They probably do UFOs.
1667
01:16:00,481 --> 01:16:02,432
Well, you never know how it seeds into population.
1668
01:16:02,433 --> 01:16:05,642
But anyway, this program this is
1669
01:16:05,643 --> 01:16:07,130
what was the mother program.
1670
01:16:07,131 --> 01:16:09,422
So it got the 22 million, and
1671
01:16:09,423 --> 01:16:11,268
really, it was to study skinwalker ranch.
1672
01:16:11,269 --> 01:16:13,662
Oddly enough, that 22 million all
1673
01:16:13,663 --> 01:16:15,428
was inspired by the phenomenon.
1674
01:16:15,429 --> 01:16:17,166
They were seen at skinwalker ranch because
1675
01:16:17,167 --> 01:16:20,766
the scientists, they're seeing vehicles come through
1676
01:16:20,767 --> 01:16:22,904
like a space in the sky.
1677
01:16:22,905 --> 01:16:23,906
Yeah, we went there.
1678
01:16:23,907 --> 01:16:25,352
I went there with Duncan.
1679
01:16:25,353 --> 01:16:28,264
We interviewed a bunch of people that seemed
1680
01:16:28,265 --> 01:16:29,928
full of shit, but a couple that didn't.
1681
01:16:29,929 --> 01:16:32,424
It's very interesting. Totally.
1682
01:16:32,425 --> 01:16:34,742
But if you look, I spent a lot of time in the area.
1683
01:16:34,743 --> 01:16:36,108
I'm not talking about those stories.
1684
01:16:36,109 --> 01:16:38,278
I'm saying there were scientists hired by the
1685
01:16:38,279 --> 01:16:41,068
government right through bigelow to study the ranch
1686
01:16:41,069 --> 01:16:44,180
because they thought it was important and whatever.
1687
01:16:44,181 --> 01:16:46,890
The point is that 22 million was to study that.
1688
01:16:46,891 --> 01:16:48,618
Then we have ATIP, which is like an
1689
01:16:48,619 --> 01:16:51,338
auxiliary kind of program of military sightings, like
1690
01:16:51,339 --> 01:16:53,242
Commander Fravers and that sort of thing.
1691
01:16:53,243 --> 01:16:56,170
This document is just one of those things
1692
01:16:56,171 --> 01:16:58,814
that has now come forward that through the
1693
01:16:58,815 --> 01:17:01,198
Bigelow studies, it was government funded, and then
1694
01:17:01,199 --> 01:17:04,308
it was personally funded and then government funded.
1695
01:17:04,309 --> 01:17:07,108
It's just one of those things that kind of shakes
1696
01:17:07,109 --> 01:17:10,194
you because you got this military guy who can't get
1697
01:17:10,195 --> 01:17:14,728
access because of the private industry that's holding these non
1698
01:17:14,729 --> 01:17:17,618
terrestrial materials that they can't study it.
1699
01:17:17,619 --> 01:17:19,842
So that's the claim right now.
1700
01:17:19,843 --> 01:17:20,822
Give it some time.
1701
01:17:20,823 --> 01:17:22,854
Let people dig more into this.
1702
01:17:22,855 --> 01:17:24,710
It's fascinating, man.
1703
01:17:24,711 --> 01:17:32,438
So you are essentially you're kicked out, right?
1704
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:33,926
You're out of this program.
1705
01:17:33,927 --> 01:17:36,544
You can't work with these crafts anymore,
1706
01:17:36,545 --> 01:17:39,936
and do they give you any threats?
1707
01:17:39,937 --> 01:17:43,754
Do they tell you what you have to do from here on out?
1708
01:17:43,755 --> 01:17:50,062
Yeah, the way it ended was I told George Knapp all this
1709
01:17:50,063 --> 01:17:53,892
stuff, and he said, well, let's just get it on tape.
1710
01:17:53,893 --> 01:17:55,278
Should something happen, at least we
1711
01:17:55,279 --> 01:17:56,638
have a record of it.
1712
01:17:56,639 --> 01:18:01,378
And I don't remember what the impetus was, but at
1713
01:18:01,379 --> 01:18:04,590
some point, George wanted to air it, and he said,
1714
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:08,418
you make the call on it, and look, if at
1715
01:18:08,419 --> 01:18:12,066
any point you change your mind, we won't air it.
1716
01:18:12,067 --> 01:18:14,472
And it came down to the day where George
1717
01:18:14,473 --> 01:18:16,086
wants to put it on the 05:00 news.
1718
01:18:16,087 --> 01:18:17,526
He said, this is important stuff.
1719
01:18:17,527 --> 01:18:19,014
People have to know about it.
1720
01:18:19,015 --> 01:18:20,822
And I thought it was too.
1721
01:18:20,823 --> 01:18:22,300
I thought it's kind of a crime.
1722
01:18:22,301 --> 01:18:24,858
I know you got to keep the technology secret, but
1723
01:18:24,859 --> 01:18:28,106
you can't not tell everybody that this stuff is going
1724
01:18:28,107 --> 01:18:32,096
on, that we have actual hardware from another civilization.
1725
01:18:32,097 --> 01:18:34,986
It's a big fucking deal, probably
1726
01:18:34,987 --> 01:18:36,890
the biggest one there ever was.
1727
01:18:36,891 --> 01:18:42,478
And George said, today's the day we got to put
1728
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:44,510
it on the news, or something to that effect.
1729
01:18:44,511 --> 01:18:47,662
And when it came right down to the time to air it,
1730
01:18:47,663 --> 01:18:51,666
I changed my mind, and I said, we're not doing it.
1731
01:18:51,667 --> 01:18:54,786
And that's what turned into the famous wrestling match
1732
01:18:54,787 --> 01:18:57,192
between me and George trying to get the tape,
1733
01:18:57,193 --> 01:18:59,874
but he won because he was a bigger guy.
1734
01:18:59,875 --> 01:19:01,496
So you actually physically wrestled?
1735
01:19:01,497 --> 01:19:03,682
Well, I think it was more of a pulling match.
1736
01:19:03,683 --> 01:19:05,468
I don't think we ever hit the ground.
1737
01:19:05,469 --> 01:19:07,734
But he got the tape, he put it in
1738
01:19:07,735 --> 01:19:10,182
the player, and boom, 05:00 news was on.
1739
01:19:10,183 --> 01:19:13,046
And then I got a call after that,
1740
01:19:13,047 --> 01:19:14,812
and they said it was from Dennis.
1741
01:19:14,813 --> 01:19:16,374
They said, do you have any idea what
1742
01:19:16,375 --> 01:19:17,738
we're going to do to you now?
1743
01:19:17,739 --> 01:19:18,906
And he hung up the phone.
1744
01:19:18,907 --> 01:19:21,510
That was the last communication I had with him.
1745
01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:25,082
And what has happened to you since then?
1746
01:19:25,083 --> 01:19:31,480
After that, a lot of people I've known
1747
01:19:32,460 --> 01:19:36,670
either were audited by the IRS people, had
1748
01:19:36,671 --> 01:19:39,246
anybody I know that had clearances that worked
1749
01:19:39,247 --> 01:19:42,264
in secure programs had the clearances pulled.
1750
01:19:42,265 --> 01:19:47,192
One of them, one of mine that Jeremy knows.
1751
01:19:47,193 --> 01:19:48,418
He's going on camera with me.
1752
01:19:48,419 --> 01:19:49,874
Soon he'll tell the story now that
1753
01:19:49,875 --> 01:19:51,490
he's out of work up there.
1754
01:19:51,491 --> 01:19:54,284
He was working up at the Tonal Pot test range waiting
1755
01:19:54,285 --> 01:19:57,810
for his clearance to come through, and they pulled that.
1756
01:19:59,140 --> 01:20:00,662
It's like if they can't get the
1757
01:20:00,663 --> 01:20:03,718
person that's involved, they just create a
1758
01:20:03,719 --> 01:20:06,282
problem for everybody that surrounds them.
1759
01:20:06,283 --> 01:20:08,842
And so, I mean, the way it turns out, it
1760
01:20:08,843 --> 01:20:11,888
hurt a lot of people's lives that I was connected
1761
01:20:11,889 --> 01:20:16,170
to, and that's an effective way of shutting someone up.
1762
01:20:16,171 --> 01:20:18,398
Did you feel that by coming forward and
1763
01:20:18,399 --> 01:20:20,814
going public, they couldn't just snuff you out?
1764
01:20:20,815 --> 01:20:22,270
I mean, that's what I was told.
1765
01:20:22,271 --> 01:20:25,764
And George and everybody said that it's
1766
01:20:25,765 --> 01:20:27,678
public, no one will touch you.
1767
01:20:27,679 --> 01:20:30,670
And I fell for it.
1768
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:35,426
You wish you didn't. Yeah.
1769
01:20:35,427 --> 01:20:38,098
Sometimes when it's just overstressed and
1770
01:20:38,099 --> 01:20:39,528
people are camping on your lawn.
1771
01:20:39,529 --> 01:20:41,458
Yeah, but this is going to
1772
01:20:41,459 --> 01:20:43,442
make things worse, doing this.
1773
01:20:43,443 --> 01:20:45,540
No, this is going to make things better.
1774
01:20:45,541 --> 01:20:47,158
I was trying to tell them, how
1775
01:20:47,159 --> 01:20:48,870
is this going to make things better?
1776
01:20:48,871 --> 01:20:51,398
Because you're getting a real chance to explain yourself in
1777
01:20:51,399 --> 01:20:55,674
a way that's going to make people who not only
1778
01:20:55,675 --> 01:20:59,882
work in the government, people that are police officers and
1779
01:20:59,883 --> 01:21:04,058
firefighters and first responders and doctors and scientists, they're going
1780
01:21:04,059 --> 01:21:11,822
to empathize, empathize and empathize with what it must be
1781
01:21:11,823 --> 01:21:14,574
like to be a person like you in your 20s,
1782
01:21:14,575 --> 01:21:19,950
who gets thrust into this world unknowingly and confronted with
1783
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:24,776
one of the most, if not the most important, discovery
1784
01:21:24,777 --> 01:21:27,032
in the history of human beings.
1785
01:21:27,033 --> 01:21:29,560
The big question are we alone?
1786
01:21:29,561 --> 01:21:31,138
It's the number one question.
1787
01:21:31,139 --> 01:21:32,630
There's two questions, right?
1788
01:21:32,631 --> 01:21:34,860
What happens when we die, and are we alone?
1789
01:21:34,861 --> 01:21:37,190
Those are the two big questions, right?
1790
01:21:37,191 --> 01:21:41,164
And if we're not alone and someone knows we're
1791
01:21:41,165 --> 01:21:44,428
not alone, and these some people who know we're
1792
01:21:44,429 --> 01:21:48,362
not alone, are these bungling sort of.
1793
01:21:48,363 --> 01:21:51,018
Even if they weren't, it's a crime that
1794
01:21:51,019 --> 01:21:52,874
they're not telling the rest of us.
1795
01:21:52,875 --> 01:21:54,202
But I mean, I don't mean
1796
01:21:54,203 --> 01:21:55,728
bungling in terms they're incompetent.
1797
01:21:55,729 --> 01:21:57,588
I mean, they can't be competent.
1798
01:21:57,589 --> 01:21:59,582
It seems to me, to what you're describing, that
1799
01:21:59,583 --> 01:22:01,982
no one can be competent with this technology.
1800
01:22:01,983 --> 01:22:06,692
Like the Victorian era scholars analyzing
1801
01:22:06,693 --> 01:22:08,772
some sort of a nuclear reactor.
1802
01:22:08,773 --> 01:22:09,838
There's no way.
1803
01:22:09,839 --> 01:22:10,958
Why do you think beyond that?
1804
01:22:10,959 --> 01:22:12,142
Why do you think they're not telling us?
1805
01:22:12,143 --> 01:22:13,218
Let's just make an assumption that
1806
01:22:13,219 --> 01:22:14,818
this is true right now.
1807
01:22:14,819 --> 01:22:17,448
Why do you think that they're not telling
1808
01:22:17,449 --> 01:22:19,026
us that our government doesn't tell us.
1809
01:22:19,027 --> 01:22:19,810
What's your best?
1810
01:22:19,811 --> 01:22:22,818
Well, let me put it into what you do.
1811
01:22:22,819 --> 01:22:25,618
If I'm the president, okay, and I get
1812
01:22:25,619 --> 01:22:27,350
this information, what do I do with this?
1813
01:22:27,351 --> 01:22:28,038
What do I do with this?
1814
01:22:28,039 --> 01:22:29,542
There's something that we don't know.
1815
01:22:29,543 --> 01:22:31,126
There's something we don't understand.
1816
01:22:31,127 --> 01:22:32,886
There's something that came from another world.
1817
01:22:32,887 --> 01:22:35,206
We got it tucked away in the mountains, and
1818
01:22:35,207 --> 01:22:36,682
I just wanted you guys to know about it.
1819
01:22:36,683 --> 01:22:37,632
Hey, sleep tight.
1820
01:22:37,633 --> 01:22:39,216
Hey, American Auto is on tonight.
1821
01:22:39,217 --> 01:22:40,666
Who do you think is going to win? Yeah.
1822
01:22:40,667 --> 01:22:41,940
Who's going to win? America.
1823
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:46,864
One is uncertainty, and the other one is what Bob
1824
01:22:46,865 --> 01:22:49,712
and I have talked about a lot, absolutely not knowing
1825
01:22:49,713 --> 01:22:51,818
what to tell people because you don't really understand it
1826
01:22:51,819 --> 01:22:53,898
yourself, even though you've got what do you say?
1827
01:22:53,899 --> 01:22:54,970
You want to run a government.
1828
01:22:54,971 --> 01:22:56,768
You want to get people to pay their taxes.
1829
01:22:56,769 --> 01:22:58,882
But there's something else. Yeah. What do you say?
1830
01:22:58,883 --> 01:23:01,266
So you have these objects fine. With impunity. Right.
1831
01:23:01,267 --> 01:23:02,770
And you have something else.
1832
01:23:02,771 --> 01:23:04,658
Well, not only that, what can you say?
1833
01:23:04,659 --> 01:23:06,082
Like, how much do you really know?
1834
01:23:06,083 --> 01:23:07,746
I think it's mainly the technology.
1835
01:23:07,747 --> 01:23:09,778
They just want to keep the technology
1836
01:23:09,779 --> 01:23:13,900
secret because whoever gets this wins. Dude.
1837
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:18,332
You control the where you literally become invincible.
1838
01:23:18,333 --> 01:23:20,998
Once you master the technology, you
1839
01:23:20,999 --> 01:23:23,354
cannot penetrate a field like that.
1840
01:23:23,355 --> 01:23:25,632
So I imagine I know it's all science
1841
01:23:25,633 --> 01:23:28,010
fiction, but science fiction turns into science fact.
1842
01:23:28,011 --> 01:23:30,848
If you have real force fields
1843
01:23:30,849 --> 01:23:35,466
around aircraft and battleships, you win.
1844
01:23:35,467 --> 01:23:37,614
You can force your will upon anybody.
1845
01:23:37,615 --> 01:23:40,910
And like I said, there's so much more to this story.
1846
01:23:40,911 --> 01:23:44,062
When I was first there, there
1847
01:23:44,063 --> 01:23:46,780
were Russian scientists at S Four.
1848
01:23:46,781 --> 01:23:48,414
This was early on in the project.
1849
01:23:48,415 --> 01:23:50,388
So this was before Operation Paperclip
1850
01:23:50,389 --> 01:23:51,790
became public as well, right?
1851
01:23:51,791 --> 01:23:52,996
I would imagine.
1852
01:23:52,997 --> 01:23:54,802
I don't know what the dates were. When was that?
1853
01:23:54,803 --> 01:23:58,498
When did that was that 98, I think. 98? Yeah.
1854
01:23:58,499 --> 01:23:59,922
I don't know the dates on it.
1855
01:23:59,923 --> 01:24:02,328
Roughly ten years later, operation Paperclip
1856
01:24:02,329 --> 01:24:04,098
becomes Freedom of Information Act.
1857
01:24:04,099 --> 01:24:05,756
We said about Russia, not Germany.
1858
01:24:05,757 --> 01:24:07,276
He said about Russian scientists.
1859
01:24:07,277 --> 01:24:09,238
Yeah, but I mean, Russian scientists, a
1860
01:24:09,239 --> 01:24:10,764
lot of them came from Germany.
1861
01:24:10,765 --> 01:24:13,078
A lot of those rocket scientists that work
1862
01:24:13,079 --> 01:24:16,746
with NASA, they all came from Nazi scientists. Got it.
1863
01:24:16,747 --> 01:24:18,778
The Russians got some of them. I just know.
1864
01:24:18,779 --> 01:24:21,824
And at some point, there was intense cooperation
1865
01:24:21,825 --> 01:24:25,152
with Russia, even exchanging some ideas on nuclear
1866
01:24:25,153 --> 01:24:28,042
weapons and EMP tests, and some things we
1867
01:24:28,043 --> 01:24:29,646
would never have discussed with them.
1868
01:24:29,647 --> 01:24:32,702
But at the same time, it was in the late 80s.
1869
01:24:32,703 --> 01:24:35,118
They were involved and actually in the
1870
01:24:35,119 --> 01:24:37,534
area at S Four with us.
1871
01:24:37,535 --> 01:24:38,734
And you got to communicate with
1872
01:24:38,735 --> 01:24:39,726
these guys, or you saw them.
1873
01:24:39,727 --> 01:24:41,330
No, I knew they were there.
1874
01:24:41,331 --> 01:24:44,018
Barry would talk about the commies that were there.
1875
01:24:44,019 --> 01:24:45,260
Yeah, the commies.
1876
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:48,168
That was back when they were the commies.
1877
01:24:48,169 --> 01:24:49,580
They were real commies.
1878
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:55,158
And at some point, it wasn't our group, but
1879
01:24:55,159 --> 01:24:58,902
at some point, there was a big discovery made.
1880
01:24:58,903 --> 01:25:01,158
And this did not happen when I was there.
1881
01:25:01,159 --> 01:25:03,846
It happened in between my trips to there and
1882
01:25:03,847 --> 01:25:06,982
after that, apparently, they decided it was just too
1883
01:25:06,983 --> 01:25:09,146
cool to share with anybody, and the Russians were
1884
01:25:09,147 --> 01:25:11,290
never allowed back on the base after that.
1885
01:25:11,291 --> 01:25:13,258
But you don't know what that discovery was? No.
1886
01:25:13,259 --> 01:25:14,602
Like I said, it wasn't my group.
1887
01:25:14,603 --> 01:25:18,380
So one of the other groups really found out something.
1888
01:25:18,381 --> 01:25:21,854
But in typical American fashion, it
1889
01:25:21,855 --> 01:25:23,358
was, all right, this is ours. You guys.
1890
01:25:23,359 --> 01:25:24,366
Get the hell out of here.
1891
01:25:24,367 --> 01:25:26,766
Was there any inkling that any
1892
01:25:26,767 --> 01:25:29,580
other government had something similar?
1893
01:25:29,581 --> 01:25:31,666
No, nothing that I had heard.
1894
01:25:31,667 --> 01:25:33,218
See, that was the thing that always freaked me
1895
01:25:33,219 --> 01:25:37,218
out, was why, if something was so superior to
1896
01:25:37,219 --> 01:25:40,216
human beings, it's almost like visiting an ant colony.
1897
01:25:40,217 --> 01:25:41,432
Like, why would you go to the queen?
1898
01:25:41,433 --> 01:25:43,586
I don't give a fuck who the Queen is. I'm a human.
1899
01:25:43,587 --> 01:25:45,308
I'm so superior to you ants.
1900
01:25:45,309 --> 01:25:47,100
I don't care who you have running your hive.
1901
01:25:47,101 --> 01:25:48,518
I'm just going to study it.
1902
01:25:48,519 --> 01:25:50,582
I think it's who got it? Who got it.
1903
01:25:50,583 --> 01:25:53,788
Look at the rocket technology in Germany.
1904
01:25:53,789 --> 01:25:55,350
But they got nine of them.
1905
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:58,410
Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me either.
1906
01:25:58,411 --> 01:26:01,242
So they were either in the same area
1907
01:26:01,243 --> 01:26:04,842
or one had clues to where others were.
1908
01:26:04,843 --> 01:26:06,186
I mean, I don't know.
1909
01:26:06,187 --> 01:26:07,886
You have to fill that in there. But you're right.
1910
01:26:07,887 --> 01:26:09,130
I mean, nine of them?
1911
01:26:09,660 --> 01:26:12,820
It's a big dig if it was archaeological.
1912
01:26:12,821 --> 01:26:16,116
Well, one of the more recent recent sightings
1913
01:26:16,117 --> 01:26:18,942
and these discussions that have been coming out
1914
01:26:18,943 --> 01:26:21,592
recently from Air Force pilots and Navy pilots,
1915
01:26:21,593 --> 01:26:23,138
they've been talking about things happening in the
1916
01:26:23,139 --> 01:26:27,682
ocean and that something literally goes into the
1917
01:26:27,683 --> 01:26:29,608
water or something maybe below the surface.
1918
01:26:29,609 --> 01:26:30,386
Thinking about water.
1919
01:26:30,387 --> 01:26:32,370
2004 Tic TAC nimitz case.
1920
01:26:32,371 --> 01:26:34,054
So that's when George Knapp and I broke on
1921
01:26:34,055 --> 01:26:35,622
the radio twice before the New York Times.
1922
01:26:35,623 --> 01:26:36,950
So I know this one really well.
1923
01:26:36,951 --> 01:26:39,052
Commander Fraver and those pilots.
1924
01:26:39,053 --> 01:26:43,540
There was a disturbance on the surface of the water.
1925
01:26:43,541 --> 01:26:46,262
Commander Fraver visually saw what looked
1926
01:26:46,263 --> 01:26:48,922
like similar to across some object.
1927
01:26:48,923 --> 01:26:50,928
So it's like as if you have some coral
1928
01:26:50,929 --> 01:26:53,098
under the water and you've got it's breaking over.
1929
01:26:53,099 --> 01:26:53,530
Right.
1930
01:26:53,531 --> 01:26:56,816
The Tic TAC is doing this crazy maneuver that defies.
1931
01:26:56,817 --> 01:26:58,330
It's a gravity propelled system.
1932
01:26:58,331 --> 01:27:00,446
They saw it in the sky before they saw in the water.
1933
01:27:00,447 --> 01:27:01,022
Right? Yeah.
1934
01:27:01,023 --> 01:27:03,758
So there were radar that was picking these
1935
01:27:03,759 --> 01:27:05,998
things coming down from 80,000ft and dropping to
1936
01:27:05,999 --> 01:27:07,982
50ft in less than a second.
1937
01:27:07,983 --> 01:27:09,566
This is it, Jamie. What is it?
1938
01:27:09,567 --> 01:27:10,862
This is actually on the news today.
1939
01:27:10,863 --> 01:27:11,672
There was a briefing.
1940
01:27:11,673 --> 01:27:13,688
So a lot of people get this confused.
1941
01:27:13,689 --> 01:27:15,070
Not this one then, either.
1942
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:17,176
That is called the gimbal.
1943
01:27:17,177 --> 01:27:20,194
So there's three videos released by the Pentagon that
1944
01:27:20,195 --> 01:27:22,750
are all actual play and keep the volume off. Okay.
1945
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:26,246
I would really just pay attention to the source videos.
1946
01:27:26,247 --> 01:27:27,718
So you've got the Tic TAC, which
1947
01:27:27,719 --> 01:27:30,054
is this object that Commander Fraver saw.
1948
01:27:30,055 --> 01:27:32,764
Another pilot filmed it with a FLIR pod,
1949
01:27:32,765 --> 01:27:34,842
and it goes but this one, you see,
1950
01:27:34,843 --> 01:27:36,666
is really important to Bob's story.
1951
01:27:36,667 --> 01:27:40,208
The Gimbal craft, it's been recently analyzed.
1952
01:27:40,209 --> 01:27:41,216
It's FLIR.
1953
01:27:41,217 --> 01:27:44,842
Not only does it's definitive that it's not
1954
01:27:44,843 --> 01:27:48,254
conventional anything by its movements, but there's a
1955
01:27:48,255 --> 01:27:52,164
pocket of cold air around a propulsion source.
1956
01:27:52,165 --> 01:27:54,052
So this object, by the way, sat
1957
01:27:54,053 --> 01:27:56,910
stationary for days, if not weeks.
1958
01:27:56,911 --> 01:27:58,462
It sat stationary? Yeah.
1959
01:27:58,463 --> 01:28:01,268
They found it 11 hours later, and they were saying, there's
1960
01:28:01,269 --> 01:28:04,002
no way this thing using that kind of energy to go
1961
01:28:04,003 --> 01:28:06,578
that fast could just hover the amount of time.
1962
01:28:06,579 --> 01:28:08,162
And by the way, you're seeing a very
1963
01:28:08,163 --> 01:28:10,194
small part of what happened that day.
1964
01:28:10,195 --> 01:28:12,280
This object was not alone.
1965
01:28:12,281 --> 01:28:15,926
And so, hopefully, that information comes out and we can
1966
01:28:15,927 --> 01:28:17,654
I mean, I wish we had video of it.
1967
01:28:17,655 --> 01:28:19,590
I'm sure we'd all want to see it.
1968
01:28:19,591 --> 01:28:20,988
But that's called the gimbal.
1969
01:28:20,989 --> 01:28:23,030
That was East Coast, right?
1970
01:28:23,031 --> 01:28:24,210
2015.
1971
01:28:24,900 --> 01:28:26,358
West coast, 2004.
1972
01:28:26,359 --> 01:28:29,274
Was the Tic TAC the disturbance on the water?
1973
01:28:29,275 --> 01:28:31,562
Commander Fraver believes there was something under
1974
01:28:31,563 --> 01:28:33,648
that water that was causing that disturbance.
1975
01:28:33,649 --> 01:28:35,946
When the Tic TAC was coming around to doing it
1976
01:28:35,947 --> 01:28:39,662
within the people that are studying this, they're thinking maybe
1977
01:28:39,663 --> 01:28:42,484
the Tic TAC system was causing the disturbance.
1978
01:28:42,485 --> 01:28:44,020
But the USO.
1979
01:28:44,021 --> 01:28:49,262
Unidentified Submerged Object that he visually saw the whole
1980
01:28:49,263 --> 01:28:51,704
interesting thing about that is I would love Bob
1981
01:28:51,705 --> 01:28:54,178
to describe it is why it doesn't matter if
1982
01:28:54,179 --> 01:28:58,050
these craft are in space, air, or water.
1983
01:28:58,051 --> 01:28:58,802
Why doesn't it matter?
1984
01:28:58,803 --> 01:29:00,904
I love when he talks about this shit.
1985
01:29:00,905 --> 01:29:03,298
Well, first of all, Commander Fraver was the F
1986
01:29:03,299 --> 01:29:06,358
18 pilot off the Nemets that was sent out
1987
01:29:06,359 --> 01:29:08,214
to find out what this stuff is.
1988
01:29:08,215 --> 01:29:10,454
And it wasn't just I got a
1989
01:29:10,455 --> 01:29:12,268
chance to talk to him recently.
1990
01:29:12,269 --> 01:29:14,652
And it wasn't just a radar image.
1991
01:29:14,653 --> 01:29:17,866
I mean, Commander Fraver had eyes on it for over
1992
01:29:17,867 --> 01:29:21,738
five minutes watching this thing, as four other pilots did.
1993
01:29:21,739 --> 01:29:23,786
So this wasn't a radar blip or anything.
1994
01:29:23,787 --> 01:29:25,902
I mean, these guys were watching this thing.
1995
01:29:25,903 --> 01:29:30,570
But one of the things, I think, in the Gimbal video,
1996
01:29:31,820 --> 01:29:37,262
the way the craft that we worked on flies is it
1997
01:29:37,263 --> 01:29:42,542
doesn't fly like conventional aircraft does, and it doesn't fly like
1998
01:29:42,543 --> 01:29:45,720
a flying saucer would or in a 1950s movie.
1999
01:29:45,721 --> 01:29:47,762
It flies belly first.
2000
01:29:47,763 --> 01:29:49,586
I mean, it may set down
2001
01:29:49,587 --> 01:29:52,492
conventionally, but it always rotates.
2002
01:29:52,493 --> 01:29:54,748
It does a roll maneuver, puts its belly
2003
01:29:54,749 --> 01:29:57,540
towards the target, and then moves away.
2004
01:29:57,541 --> 01:30:00,850
Car flying with the wheels forward, right?
2005
01:30:01,540 --> 01:30:04,198
I mean, it may land on the wheels, but at
2006
01:30:04,199 --> 01:30:07,322
some point when it wants to leave, flips up points
2007
01:30:07,323 --> 01:30:09,146
the wheels where it wants to go and takes off.
2008
01:30:09,147 --> 01:30:11,402
And the Gimbal video, you can see
2009
01:30:11,403 --> 01:30:13,344
the craft do the roll maneuver.
2010
01:30:13,345 --> 01:30:15,450
And it's really interesting.
2011
01:30:15,451 --> 01:30:17,728
It behaves exactly like the craft
2012
01:30:17,729 --> 01:30:19,966
that I worked on so much.
2013
01:30:19,967 --> 01:30:22,116
Like, we have different shaped aircraft
2014
01:30:22,117 --> 01:30:24,116
and fighter jets and cars.
2015
01:30:24,117 --> 01:30:27,214
They probably have different shapes of these
2016
01:30:27,215 --> 01:30:31,314
objects that operate under similar principles, right?
2017
01:30:31,315 --> 01:30:33,528
But they all have the same. Power source.
2018
01:30:33,529 --> 01:30:34,632
They all have the same power source.
2019
01:30:34,633 --> 01:30:37,870
And we're also dealing with if you think about
2020
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:43,068
the laws of technological progression, you think of Moore's
2021
01:30:43,069 --> 01:30:46,380
Law and you think of how things accelerate.
2022
01:30:46,381 --> 01:30:48,924
You've got to think that if this civilization
2023
01:30:48,925 --> 01:30:51,308
is who knows how many years more advanced
2024
01:30:51,309 --> 01:30:54,940
than we are, if not even years, we're
2025
01:30:54,941 --> 01:30:57,178
thinking about in terms of conventional terms. Right.
2026
01:30:57,179 --> 01:31:00,346
The way we look at the world, they might
2027
01:31:00,347 --> 01:31:03,792
be just superior in terms of their intellect.
2028
01:31:03,793 --> 01:31:04,746
They've got to be.
2029
01:31:04,747 --> 01:31:06,478
Maybe we don't know. Right.
2030
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:11,726
Well, the only reason I say that is because, look,
2031
01:31:11,727 --> 01:31:15,614
everyone doesn't necessarily start at a steam engine and go
2032
01:31:15,615 --> 01:31:19,588
to an internal combustion engine and then electric power, nuclear
2033
01:31:19,589 --> 01:31:22,170
power and go up the ladder that we can.
2034
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:26,114
If the stuff is true about the origin and
2035
01:31:26,115 --> 01:31:28,760
the binary star system and they have heavier elements
2036
01:31:28,761 --> 01:31:31,832
that we don't have, and this element stable, element
2037
01:31:31,833 --> 01:31:35,542
115 is a naturally occurring material, maybe that's the
2038
01:31:35,543 --> 01:31:37,894
first thing they started experimenting with.
2039
01:31:37,895 --> 01:31:39,926
And the version of their steam engine, their
2040
01:31:39,927 --> 01:31:43,606
first product was something that operated like this.
2041
01:31:43,607 --> 01:31:46,762
And actually when they came to Earth to look around or
2042
01:31:46,763 --> 01:31:49,306
whatever, they were amazed at the stuff we were doing.
2043
01:31:49,307 --> 01:31:51,168
These guys burned stuff and squirted
2044
01:31:51,169 --> 01:31:53,270
out the back to go forward. Right.
2045
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:55,818
Who says they follow any kind
2046
01:31:55,819 --> 01:31:57,754
of normal progression like that?
2047
01:31:57,755 --> 01:32:00,378
My thought was if you went back to
2048
01:32:00,379 --> 01:32:04,142
the then you went from 1400 to 1500.
2049
01:32:04,143 --> 01:32:04,958
You're not going to see that
2050
01:32:04,959 --> 01:32:07,100
much of a difference technologically.
2051
01:32:07,101 --> 01:32:10,888
If you go from 2000 to 3000, I assume
2052
01:32:10,889 --> 01:32:12,866
there's going to be a radical change, right?
2053
01:32:12,867 --> 01:32:15,790
Well, yeah, the delta, the rate of change
2054
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:20,306
is magnificently higher than it used to be. Right.
2055
01:32:20,307 --> 01:32:23,718
So if you think about what they had in
2056
01:32:23,719 --> 01:32:26,518
1988 and you think about what they probably have
2057
01:32:26,519 --> 01:32:32,748
in 2019, just logically seems like they would advance.
2058
01:32:32,749 --> 01:32:33,402
I would think.
2059
01:32:33,403 --> 01:32:38,600
So the only question is, are they living?
2060
01:32:38,601 --> 01:32:40,314
Is that a living thing in
2061
01:32:40,315 --> 01:32:42,570
terms of like a biological thing?
2062
01:32:42,571 --> 01:32:46,208
Or are they some sort of an artificially created
2063
01:32:46,209 --> 01:32:48,510
creation like we are working on right now?
2064
01:32:48,511 --> 01:32:51,604
We're in the middle of working on artificial reality.
2065
01:32:51,605 --> 01:32:53,236
Artificial beings, sentient
2066
01:32:53,237 --> 01:32:55,220
beings, artificial intelligence.
2067
01:32:55,221 --> 01:32:57,054
There's silicon based life forms that
2068
01:32:57,055 --> 01:32:58,462
they're essentially trying to create.
2069
01:32:58,463 --> 01:32:59,508
Boston Dynamic.
2070
01:32:59,509 --> 01:33:02,952
Or was it Boston Dynamics at the company? Robots.
2071
01:33:02,953 --> 01:33:05,042
Yeah, you can make machines out of flesh. Right.
2072
01:33:05,043 --> 01:33:08,194
So cyborg or cybernetic organism is just that.
2073
01:33:08,195 --> 01:33:09,826
That's what a lot of people think those like
2074
01:33:09,827 --> 01:33:13,058
gray things are that people call the grays is
2075
01:33:13,059 --> 01:33:16,492
like they were like they're machines printed from flesh.
2076
01:33:16,493 --> 01:33:18,150
So what you're saying is like not
2077
01:33:18,151 --> 01:33:20,534
they could just be synthetic life.
2078
01:33:20,535 --> 01:33:23,388
They don't even need to be machines?
2079
01:33:23,389 --> 01:33:24,828
Well, they seem to have no sex
2080
01:33:24,829 --> 01:33:26,362
organs the way they're described by people
2081
01:33:26,363 --> 01:33:27,802
that have had interactions with them.
2082
01:33:27,803 --> 01:33:29,200
Assuming these people aren't liars
2083
01:33:29,201 --> 01:33:31,594
or crazy or whatever. Right.
2084
01:33:31,595 --> 01:33:34,170
They have no sex organs and that
2085
01:33:34,171 --> 01:33:36,192
they don't seem to have any muscle.
2086
01:33:36,193 --> 01:33:38,276
They're just almost like a frame,
2087
01:33:38,277 --> 01:33:40,100
and they have enormous heads.
2088
01:33:40,101 --> 01:33:44,260
I mean, if you look at Australia Pithecus
2089
01:33:44,261 --> 01:33:47,118
or depictions of ancient hominids, and then you
2090
01:33:47,119 --> 01:33:48,798
go to human beings, one of the things
2091
01:33:48,799 --> 01:33:50,856
you see is bigger heads and weaker bodies.
2092
01:33:50,857 --> 01:33:52,498
Well, you see a clear progression of
2093
01:33:52,499 --> 01:33:55,682
evolution, too, where something like that.
2094
01:33:55,683 --> 01:33:59,138
I would lean towards synthetic organism because it looks
2095
01:33:59,139 --> 01:34:01,128
like it was made for a specific task.
2096
01:34:01,129 --> 01:34:02,988
There was no reproductive organs.
2097
01:34:02,989 --> 01:34:04,598
So, I mean, that almost kind of
2098
01:34:04,599 --> 01:34:08,102
leaves out any kind of physical evolution. Right?
2099
01:34:08,103 --> 01:34:09,798
Well, that's also our bottleneck, right?
2100
01:34:09,799 --> 01:34:12,604
Our bottleneck is our biological imperative.
2101
01:34:12,605 --> 01:34:16,762
The need to breed emotions, fear, anxiety, all
2102
01:34:16,763 --> 01:34:19,610
these different things that exist in order to
2103
01:34:19,611 --> 01:34:22,768
force us into making sure we reproduce.
2104
01:34:22,769 --> 01:34:23,990
I mean, that's essentially what it is.
2105
01:34:23,991 --> 01:34:27,370
There are human reward systems that aren't necessary once
2106
01:34:27,371 --> 01:34:29,182
they can figure out a way to make some
2107
01:34:29,183 --> 01:34:32,478
sort of sentient artificial life, some sort of thing
2108
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:35,438
that doesn't have these biological limitations that we have.
2109
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:37,422
By the way, these craft, all these different
2110
01:34:37,423 --> 01:34:39,044
kinds have been reported because it was confusing.
2111
01:34:39,045 --> 01:34:40,334
I always thought of flying saucers. What?
2112
01:34:40,335 --> 01:34:43,154
I heard Bob Lazar talk about flying saucer. Right.
2113
01:34:43,155 --> 01:34:44,514
But if you look back in history,
2114
01:34:44,515 --> 01:34:47,192
people have always reported the weirdest shapes.
2115
01:34:47,193 --> 01:34:49,288
Like, none of them are alike.
2116
01:34:49,289 --> 01:34:51,592
There are the saucers, but you got cigar shaped,
2117
01:34:51,593 --> 01:34:55,254
you got the top hat shaped, you have orbs. Why?
2118
01:34:55,255 --> 01:34:57,372
Maybe they're serving different purposes.
2119
01:34:57,373 --> 01:34:58,518
They're doing different things, like
2120
01:34:58,519 --> 01:35:00,188
we'd use different tools.
2121
01:35:00,189 --> 01:35:01,494
And I want to be clear.
2122
01:35:01,495 --> 01:35:03,718
The reason I know that memo is real is
2123
01:35:03,719 --> 01:35:06,092
because I spent a lot of time with Dr. Edgar Mitchell.
2124
01:35:06,093 --> 01:35:07,802
Six man to walk on the moon, last
2125
01:35:07,803 --> 01:35:10,314
guy to film him before he died. Right?
2126
01:35:10,315 --> 01:35:11,322
That's how I know.
2127
01:35:11,323 --> 01:35:12,842
I don't want any journalists thinking
2128
01:35:12,843 --> 01:35:13,866
I got it from anywhere else.
2129
01:35:13,867 --> 01:35:14,986
I know because of Dr.
2130
01:35:14,987 --> 01:35:16,686
Mitchell, and he said the same thing.
2131
01:35:16,687 --> 01:35:20,520
Maybe these things are performing different tasks.
2132
01:35:22,460 --> 01:35:24,702
If you think about what an alien is in terms
2133
01:35:24,703 --> 01:35:28,658
of the sort of iconic image of an alien, like
2134
01:35:28,659 --> 01:35:33,720
the Steven Spielberg closing cows are the third kind alien.
2135
01:35:33,721 --> 01:35:37,160
They seem like what we'd assume
2136
01:35:37,161 --> 01:35:39,714
a human being would eventually become. Right?
2137
01:35:39,715 --> 01:35:41,944
And if these things are tiny, human beings
2138
01:35:41,945 --> 01:35:43,302
are smaller than they've ever been before.
2139
01:35:43,303 --> 01:35:44,726
They're weaker than they've ever been before.
2140
01:35:44,727 --> 01:35:46,124
And there seems to be a trend
2141
01:35:46,125 --> 01:35:48,630
in that direction, and this trend seems
2142
01:35:48,631 --> 01:35:52,540
to be amplified by our technological progression.
2143
01:35:52,541 --> 01:35:55,798
There are a lack of need for muscle strength and
2144
01:35:55,799 --> 01:35:58,778
our lack of need for violence, and we're moving in
2145
01:35:58,779 --> 01:36:01,098
a society to try to get away from all the
2146
01:36:01,099 --> 01:36:03,898
things that we think are abhorrent about human beings and
2147
01:36:03,899 --> 01:36:05,678
the terrible behaviors that we have.
2148
01:36:05,679 --> 01:36:09,902
If we one day do give birth to some
2149
01:36:09,903 --> 01:36:14,980
sort of an artificial being, like Marshall McLuhan's quote,
2150
01:36:14,981 --> 01:36:17,850
we are the sex organs of the machine world.
2151
01:36:18,380 --> 01:36:20,750
That one day we okay, I'll buy that.
2152
01:36:20,751 --> 01:36:22,216
Yeah, McLuhan was brilliant.
2153
01:36:22,217 --> 01:36:24,194
And that quote has always been one
2154
01:36:24,195 --> 01:36:26,002
of my favorites because okay, what are
2155
01:36:26,003 --> 01:36:29,096
we doing when we're constantly technologically innovating?
2156
01:36:29,097 --> 01:36:31,986
We're constantly looking for faster cars, better
2157
01:36:31,987 --> 01:36:35,158
computers, bigger screens, faster, more resolution, more
2158
01:36:35,159 --> 01:36:37,228
pixels, more this, more that, higher bandwidth,
2159
01:36:37,229 --> 01:36:39,446
five G, ten G. What are we doing?
2160
01:36:39,447 --> 01:36:41,140
We're moving into this.
2161
01:36:41,141 --> 01:36:44,214
If you just follow it objectively, stand back.
2162
01:36:44,215 --> 01:36:46,838
Don't attach yourself or your civilization, your culture to
2163
01:36:46,839 --> 01:36:48,138
it and look at it what it is.
2164
01:36:48,139 --> 01:36:53,168
We're moving 100% towards technological innovation.
2165
01:36:53,169 --> 01:36:55,658
If you looked at this species from afar and
2166
01:36:55,659 --> 01:36:56,874
if you weren't a part of it, you would
2167
01:36:56,875 --> 01:36:58,394
say, well, what does this species do?
2168
01:36:58,395 --> 01:37:00,426
Oh, they make things. They make things better.
2169
01:37:00,427 --> 01:37:02,608
Every year, beehives are the same fucking
2170
01:37:02,609 --> 01:37:04,090
thing that you see ten years ago.
2171
01:37:04,091 --> 01:37:06,458
You go by, you see a beehive. It's amazing. It's cool.
2172
01:37:06,459 --> 01:37:07,802
But they're the same fucking thing.
2173
01:37:07,803 --> 01:37:09,816
They figured out how to do it. They make a beehive.
2174
01:37:09,817 --> 01:37:11,074
Right? We don't do that.
2175
01:37:11,075 --> 01:37:12,146
We make better things.
2176
01:37:12,147 --> 01:37:13,608
What would you do constantly?
2177
01:37:13,609 --> 01:37:15,058
And at some point, I think that
2178
01:37:15,059 --> 01:37:17,186
technology is going to fuse with us. Yes.
2179
01:37:17,187 --> 01:37:19,026
And we're going to become it's already happening.
2180
01:37:19,027 --> 01:37:20,258
Elon Musk talked about it on
2181
01:37:20,259 --> 01:37:21,784
my podcast, that we are cyborgs.
2182
01:37:21,785 --> 01:37:23,634
You just carry it in your pocket. It's a phone.
2183
01:37:23,635 --> 01:37:25,270
It answers any question you want.
2184
01:37:25,271 --> 01:37:26,198
You can talk to it.
2185
01:37:26,199 --> 01:37:27,404
It'll give you the answers.
2186
01:37:27,405 --> 01:37:29,020
The answers instantaneously.
2187
01:37:29,021 --> 01:37:30,294
It navigates you.
2188
01:37:30,295 --> 01:37:31,798
It has all your phone numbers in it.
2189
01:37:31,799 --> 01:37:33,702
It has all your contacts. You can get a hold of people.
2190
01:37:33,703 --> 01:37:35,206
People are listening to you through it.
2191
01:37:35,207 --> 01:37:36,826
It's connecting us in ways even
2192
01:37:36,827 --> 01:37:39,274
involuntarily Haptics, that kind of thing.
2193
01:37:39,275 --> 01:37:40,592
It's also getting on your wrist.
2194
01:37:40,593 --> 01:37:42,080
How many people have eye watches?
2195
01:37:42,081 --> 01:37:43,962
Apple watches, right?
2196
01:37:43,963 --> 01:37:46,298
And that's only because we can't integrate them yet.
2197
01:37:46,299 --> 01:37:48,762
But, you know, that point is coming. 100%. Yeah.
2198
01:37:48,763 --> 01:37:50,398
I didn't joke about it last night, but
2199
01:37:50,399 --> 01:37:51,598
I have a bit about it that I
2200
01:37:51,599 --> 01:37:54,942
do about the integration between humans and technology.
2201
01:37:54,943 --> 01:37:56,094
What would you do if you
2202
01:37:56,095 --> 01:37:58,190
were a hyper intelligence, right?
2203
01:37:58,191 --> 01:38:00,798
Would you do the work yourself, or would you create some
2204
01:38:00,799 --> 01:38:03,426
cool things called like, humans to do it for you?
2205
01:38:03,427 --> 01:38:05,794
Would you create things that are cybernetic organisms to
2206
01:38:05,795 --> 01:38:07,986
come in with machines and do it for you?
2207
01:38:07,987 --> 01:38:09,522
If you were a hyper intelligence that
2208
01:38:09,523 --> 01:38:11,864
has kind of changed, like you've described.
2209
01:38:11,865 --> 01:38:13,894
You'd probably create workers, right?
2210
01:38:13,895 --> 01:38:16,028
Well, that's a vast conspiracy theory.
2211
01:38:16,029 --> 01:38:17,574
I'm not talking about conspiracy, but it
2212
01:38:17,575 --> 01:38:18,492
is a kind of a conspiracy.
2213
01:38:18,493 --> 01:38:19,510
I'm asking you.
2214
01:38:19,511 --> 01:38:22,406
Well, I don't think it's necessarily that.
2215
01:38:22,407 --> 01:38:24,278
I mean, you could look at it that way, but that
2216
01:38:24,279 --> 01:38:26,358
is the way a conspiracy theorist would look at it.
2217
01:38:26,359 --> 01:38:27,418
The way I would look at it is like
2218
01:38:27,419 --> 01:38:31,088
there's obviously a progression going on, a biological progression.
2219
01:38:31,089 --> 01:38:33,514
There's some sort of an integration with technology.
2220
01:38:33,515 --> 01:38:35,216
There's some sort of imperative,
2221
01:38:35,217 --> 01:38:37,552
this need for technological innovation.
2222
01:38:37,553 --> 01:38:38,640
It's inescapable.
2223
01:38:38,641 --> 01:38:39,674
Everyone has it.
2224
01:38:39,675 --> 01:38:41,838
And I think it's attached to materialism in some
2225
01:38:41,839 --> 01:38:44,430
sort of a strange way, because so many people
2226
01:38:44,431 --> 01:38:46,398
work so hard to get new things.
2227
01:38:46,399 --> 01:38:48,958
And like, God, that seems so illogical and preposterous and
2228
01:38:48,959 --> 01:38:50,994
it makes people unhappy and depression's on the rise, but
2229
01:38:50,995 --> 01:38:53,490
nobody seems to be able to stop it. Why is that?
2230
01:38:53,491 --> 01:38:57,912
Well, maybe it's because we are the electronic
2231
01:38:57,913 --> 01:39:00,600
caterpillars that give birth to the butterfly.
2232
01:39:00,601 --> 01:39:01,950
Maybe that's what we're doing.
2233
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:04,946
What our job is to do is to make
2234
01:39:04,947 --> 01:39:07,030
some sort of a cocoon, and we don't even
2235
01:39:07,031 --> 01:39:09,126
know we're doing it while we're doing it.
2236
01:39:09,127 --> 01:39:10,614
Do you think a caterpillar is where like,
2237
01:39:10,615 --> 01:39:12,710
hey, caterpillar, what are you doing, man?
2238
01:39:12,711 --> 01:39:14,262
I'm doing my thing. It's my job.
2239
01:39:14,263 --> 01:39:15,148
I have to make a cocoon.
2240
01:39:15,149 --> 01:39:16,124
Then I'm going to come with a butter.
2241
01:39:16,125 --> 01:39:17,936
This could be a natural part of evolution.
2242
01:39:17,937 --> 01:39:19,162
It could be that we're just
2243
01:39:19,163 --> 01:39:20,570
supposed to do this exactly.
2244
01:39:20,571 --> 01:39:22,298
And make the jump to some
2245
01:39:22,299 --> 01:39:24,730
sort of mechanized right, yeah.
2246
01:39:24,731 --> 01:39:27,262
Non biological an orangutan that
2247
01:39:27,263 --> 01:39:30,220
is fishing with a spear.
2248
01:39:30,221 --> 01:39:33,960
No, they've figured out how to fish with spears.
2249
01:39:34,620 --> 01:39:38,804
There's primatologists without somebody showing
2250
01:39:38,805 --> 01:39:39,636
them how to fish.
2251
01:39:39,637 --> 01:39:42,642
No, they've imitated human beings doing it, and now
2252
01:39:42,643 --> 01:39:44,600
they do it, but they do it independently.
2253
01:39:44,601 --> 01:39:47,464
They're not trained orangutans they're wild orangutan.
2254
01:39:47,465 --> 01:39:48,270
Look at that.
2255
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:50,312
There's a wild orangutan.
2256
01:39:50,313 --> 01:39:51,324
That's impressive.
2257
01:39:51,325 --> 01:39:52,364
Very impressive.
2258
01:39:52,365 --> 01:39:54,774
Well, there's these primatologists, I
2259
01:39:54,775 --> 01:39:56,092
guess you would call them. Primatologists.
2260
01:39:56,093 --> 01:39:58,902
That's the term that's a great biologist biologists that
2261
01:39:58,903 --> 01:40:03,318
believe that monkeys and chimps and some of the
2262
01:40:03,319 --> 01:40:06,042
great apes are moving into the Stone Age, that
2263
01:40:06,043 --> 01:40:07,978
they've currently entered the Stone Age.
2264
01:40:07,979 --> 01:40:10,890
Like they're not staying what they were
2265
01:40:10,891 --> 01:40:13,770
100,000 years ago or 500,000 years ago.
2266
01:40:13,771 --> 01:40:16,768
But they're actively using tools and they're experimenting
2267
01:40:16,769 --> 01:40:19,540
with different ways to use those tools.
2268
01:40:19,541 --> 01:40:21,604
And then they're making tools out of stone, they're
2269
01:40:21,605 --> 01:40:24,590
making tools out of sticks and they're using them.
2270
01:40:24,591 --> 01:40:27,902
Well, this might just be what happens.
2271
01:40:27,903 --> 01:40:29,690
This might just be what happens.
2272
01:40:32,060 --> 01:40:33,950
Why the fuck are we work so hard?
2273
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:36,562
I was driving to La this morning.
2274
01:40:36,563 --> 01:40:38,178
I had a doctor's appointment, so I was
2275
01:40:38,179 --> 01:40:40,226
on the 405 at eight in the morning.
2276
01:40:40,227 --> 01:40:41,602
But Jesus Christ.
2277
01:40:41,603 --> 01:40:42,882
This is so crazy.
2278
01:40:42,883 --> 01:40:44,684
When you're in the 405 in La at 08:00
2279
01:40:44,685 --> 01:40:47,260
in the morning, you see literally a million cars,
2280
01:40:47,261 --> 01:40:49,606
and it's just everywhere you go, it's people.
2281
01:40:49,607 --> 01:40:53,180
And also, I'm in a Tesla, so I have it on autopilot.
2282
01:40:53,181 --> 01:40:55,708
So I'm there sitting, I'm listening to a podcast.
2283
01:40:55,709 --> 01:40:57,312
I barely have my hand on the wheel.
2284
01:40:57,313 --> 01:40:58,400
I'm not touching shit.
2285
01:40:58,401 --> 01:41:00,218
This car is driving me along.
2286
01:41:00,219 --> 01:41:03,242
I'm not even doing anything, I'm just hanging out.
2287
01:41:03,243 --> 01:41:04,698
It's so much less stressful, by
2288
01:41:04,699 --> 01:41:06,122
the way, to do that way. Right.
2289
01:41:06,123 --> 01:41:08,282
So it encourages you to innovate, it
2290
01:41:08,283 --> 01:41:11,006
encourages you to embrace this new technology.
2291
01:41:11,007 --> 01:41:12,430
I got this giant screen.
2292
01:41:12,431 --> 01:41:14,590
It's showing me the navigation in front of me.
2293
01:41:14,591 --> 01:41:16,820
Oh, I'll be there five minutes early. Excellent.
2294
01:41:16,821 --> 01:41:19,716
And I'm listening to a podcast wirelessly.
2295
01:41:19,717 --> 01:41:22,158
It's Bluetooth streaming from my phone.
2296
01:41:22,159 --> 01:41:24,978
And I pulled that podcast, which came out today out
2297
01:41:24,979 --> 01:41:27,474
of the fucking sky, and I'm listening to it and
2298
01:41:27,475 --> 01:41:30,056
I'm all comfortable in my nice little car, just driving
2299
01:41:30,057 --> 01:41:31,410
on my way to the doctor's office.
2300
01:41:31,411 --> 01:41:33,314
This is irresistible stuff. Yeah.
2301
01:41:33,315 --> 01:41:35,926
Different than your walkman back in the day.
2302
01:41:35,927 --> 01:41:37,004
Irresistible.
2303
01:41:37,005 --> 01:41:38,012
It is irresistible.
2304
01:41:38,013 --> 01:41:40,508
It's frighteningly. Irresistible. But is it frightening?
2305
01:41:40,509 --> 01:41:42,022
I mean, if you were a monkey, right?
2306
01:41:42,023 --> 01:41:45,404
If you were an Australia pithecus, would you go, man, I don't
2307
01:41:45,405 --> 01:41:47,562
want to fucking be a person and live in a house.
2308
01:41:47,563 --> 01:41:48,480
That's bullshit.
2309
01:41:48,481 --> 01:41:50,464
I like just swinging around on trees.
2310
01:41:50,465 --> 01:41:52,192
I like running from jaguars.
2311
01:41:52,193 --> 01:41:53,722
This is life, guys.
2312
01:41:53,723 --> 01:41:55,264
Life is running from crocodiles.
2313
01:41:55,265 --> 01:41:56,608
It's not living in a fucking suburban.
2314
01:41:56,609 --> 01:41:58,490
No, there's probably some that are like that.
2315
01:41:58,491 --> 01:41:59,946
Yeah, I don't think so.
2316
01:41:59,947 --> 01:42:02,670
I think when it comes, we're going to embrace it.
2317
01:42:02,671 --> 01:42:04,238
We're going to embrace it the same way you
2318
01:42:04,239 --> 01:42:07,060
embrace cell phones, the same way you embrace television.
2319
01:42:07,061 --> 01:42:08,244
There's going to be a few holdouts.
2320
01:42:08,245 --> 01:42:10,090
I don't even have an email address, man.
2321
01:42:10,620 --> 01:42:12,222
There's a few and far between the
2322
01:42:12,223 --> 01:42:14,168
good luck with that, fuck face. Go. Move to the woods.
2323
01:42:14,169 --> 01:42:15,048
Ted Kaczynski.
2324
01:42:15,049 --> 01:42:16,114
Yeah, I was just going to
2325
01:42:16,115 --> 01:42:18,770
throw Ted ted Kaczynski was right.
2326
01:42:18,771 --> 01:42:20,002
This is something that I think about
2327
01:42:20,003 --> 01:42:21,666
sometimes when I get really high.
2328
01:42:21,667 --> 01:42:23,906
That Ted Kaczynski was a part
2329
01:42:23,907 --> 01:42:25,708
of the Harvard LSD Studies.
2330
01:42:25,709 --> 01:42:26,700
This has been proven.
2331
01:42:26,701 --> 01:42:28,748
Ted Kaczynski, they cooked his fucking
2332
01:42:28,749 --> 01:42:30,412
brain when he was at Harvard.
2333
01:42:30,413 --> 01:42:32,044
And then when he went over to Berkeley and became
2334
01:42:32,045 --> 01:42:34,518
a professor, his goal was to make enough money so
2335
01:42:34,519 --> 01:42:37,338
that he could implement this program and live in the
2336
01:42:37,339 --> 01:42:40,314
woods and then write his manifesto and start killing people
2337
01:42:40,315 --> 01:42:42,890
that were involved in propagating technology.
2338
01:42:42,891 --> 01:42:46,858
He was expunged from the Harvard logs, by the way.
2339
01:42:46,859 --> 01:42:48,922
This is something my friend just called me about.
2340
01:42:48,923 --> 01:42:52,238
So there's, like, this private library, and they used
2341
01:42:52,239 --> 01:42:54,478
to print people's names whenever they were part of
2342
01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:56,452
a university, and he was one of a handful
2343
01:42:56,453 --> 01:42:58,958
of people that were expunged from it.
2344
01:42:58,959 --> 01:43:01,778
I want to jump back to the one thing, joe, I
2345
01:43:01,779 --> 01:43:04,540
want to be very careful with that word conspiracy theorist.
2346
01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:06,178
What I was saying to you
2347
01:43:06,179 --> 01:43:09,752
was, we TerraForm our Earth, right? We TerraForm.
2348
01:43:09,753 --> 01:43:10,872
We change the environment.
2349
01:43:10,873 --> 01:43:12,520
We do all this innovation.
2350
01:43:12,521 --> 01:43:14,514
What is stopping us from thinking
2351
01:43:14,515 --> 01:43:16,822
that that's not being done? I'm not saying it is.
2352
01:43:16,823 --> 01:43:19,302
I'm saying what's stopping us from thinking that that's being
2353
01:43:19,303 --> 01:43:22,550
done on a much bigger level, on a cosmic level.
2354
01:43:22,551 --> 01:43:24,988
You mean like aliens coming down, doing that to humans?
2355
01:43:24,989 --> 01:43:27,126
Well, I'm I'm telling you that there is something here.
2356
01:43:27,127 --> 01:43:28,774
That's there's a fact, you know,
2357
01:43:28,775 --> 01:43:31,002
there's something there are craft. They're here.
2358
01:43:31,003 --> 01:43:32,490
They're not ours. They're here.
2359
01:43:32,491 --> 01:43:35,370
So the question is, what is that about?
2360
01:43:35,371 --> 01:43:36,618
And I'm just looking at what we
2361
01:43:36,619 --> 01:43:39,180
do with what you're describing with technology.
2362
01:43:39,181 --> 01:43:41,822
I think it's much more likely that the same
2363
01:43:41,823 --> 01:43:44,958
way we observe chimps and we observe that they
2364
01:43:44,959 --> 01:43:47,172
are now in the Stone Age, that they're observing
2365
01:43:47,173 --> 01:43:49,214
us, and that they're recognizing that there is a
2366
01:43:49,215 --> 01:43:52,322
pattern, that there's steps that happen.
2367
01:43:52,323 --> 01:43:54,792
I mean, Carl Sagan talked about the different levels
2368
01:43:54,793 --> 01:43:58,146
of civilization, and if we don't get past certain
2369
01:43:58,147 --> 01:44:00,562
levels, we're never going to reach this.
2370
01:44:00,563 --> 01:44:01,772
We're in type one civilization.
2371
01:44:01,773 --> 01:44:02,870
We're going to stay type zero.
2372
01:44:02,871 --> 01:44:07,084
Well, we're in this warring polluting pillaging.
2373
01:44:07,085 --> 01:44:08,800
We're awesome civilizations.
2374
01:44:09,540 --> 01:44:11,014
Well, we're awesome in a lot of
2375
01:44:11,015 --> 01:44:13,078
ways, but in that way we're not.
2376
01:44:13,079 --> 01:44:16,278
Yeah, we're children that have immense power that we
2377
01:44:16,279 --> 01:44:18,698
didn't really the other thing is you're using the
2378
01:44:18,699 --> 01:44:21,786
immense power that other people have created, right?
2379
01:44:21,787 --> 01:44:23,162
I mean, even when you're driving a car
2380
01:44:23,163 --> 01:44:25,040
and you're stomping on the gas, like, whoo.
2381
01:44:25,041 --> 01:44:26,942
You didn't invent the fucking engine.
2382
01:44:26,943 --> 01:44:28,356
You didn't invent tires.
2383
01:44:28,357 --> 01:44:31,444
There's all these things that were involved in the creation
2384
01:44:31,445 --> 01:44:36,548
of this thing that is really outside of your grasp
2385
01:44:36,549 --> 01:44:39,058
of understanding, but yet you have the ability to use
2386
01:44:39,059 --> 01:44:40,584
it like a person with a gun.
2387
01:44:40,585 --> 01:44:42,546
I'm just going to bang, bang, bang people.
2388
01:44:42,547 --> 01:44:43,848
You didn't invent a gun.
2389
01:44:43,849 --> 01:44:50,290
So without the intellect to craft and engineer and
2390
01:44:50,291 --> 01:44:53,218
manifest these creations, you just have access to them
2391
01:44:53,219 --> 01:44:55,078
because you have paper or you have bitcoin or
2392
01:44:55,079 --> 01:44:56,934
you have whatever the fuck you're using using a
2393
01:44:56,935 --> 01:45:01,148
credit card now, you have almost no responsibility.
2394
01:45:01,149 --> 01:45:03,478
You could just flippantly use these things.
2395
01:45:03,479 --> 01:45:07,642
Which is why we were very childlike in our
2396
01:45:07,643 --> 01:45:11,440
actions, because we haven't had to earn the responsibility.
2397
01:45:11,441 --> 01:45:13,610
We haven't had to earn these things
2398
01:45:13,611 --> 01:45:15,146
that we've been able to have.
2399
01:45:15,147 --> 01:45:17,562
And you've only been able to have them because other
2400
01:45:17,563 --> 01:45:21,918
people have innovated and spent ungodly amounts of time and
2401
01:45:21,919 --> 01:45:24,414
effort and focus in the lab to create these things.
2402
01:45:24,415 --> 01:45:26,222
And then they've all put them together.
2403
01:45:26,223 --> 01:45:28,686
And then what's the reason to put them together?
2404
01:45:28,687 --> 01:45:29,396
To profit.
2405
01:45:29,397 --> 01:45:30,868
Well, what's the reason to profit?
2406
01:45:30,869 --> 01:45:31,598
Why are you doing this?
2407
01:45:31,599 --> 01:45:33,810
So you can buy more things. What are we doing?
2408
01:45:33,811 --> 01:45:34,626
What are we doing?
2409
01:45:34,627 --> 01:45:36,978
We're making better things. That's what we do.
2410
01:45:36,979 --> 01:45:37,570
That's all.
2411
01:45:37,571 --> 01:45:39,410
That's all we do is make better things.
2412
01:45:39,411 --> 01:45:41,448
Why the fuck do we need oil? Why do we need oil?
2413
01:45:41,449 --> 01:45:43,778
Why can't we just burn wood and stay home?
2414
01:45:43,779 --> 01:45:46,780
Why can't we grow chickens and food in the backyard?
2415
01:45:46,781 --> 01:45:47,478
Why can't we do it?
2416
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:49,366
Well, we fucking can. We certainly can.
2417
01:45:49,367 --> 01:45:50,598
People do do it, but we
2418
01:45:50,599 --> 01:45:53,084
decide to make that almost impossible.
2419
01:45:53,085 --> 01:45:55,110
Our preferred way of living is to stuff
2420
01:45:55,111 --> 01:45:57,274
everyone into a very small area where no
2421
01:45:57,275 --> 01:45:59,120
one grows anything other than weed.
2422
01:45:59,121 --> 01:46:00,554
This is what La is.
2423
01:46:00,555 --> 01:46:04,016
La is 20 million people with hard surfaces.
2424
01:46:04,017 --> 01:46:05,818
As many hard surfaces as you can.
2425
01:46:05,819 --> 01:46:08,448
Boy, if you got an acre backyard in La. Holy shit.
2426
01:46:08,449 --> 01:46:10,398
Look at all that grain. This is amazing.
2427
01:46:10,399 --> 01:46:12,894
Well, no, that's the fucking Earth coming
2428
01:46:12,895 --> 01:46:15,838
through this weird sort of creation that
2429
01:46:15,839 --> 01:46:17,028
we've put on top of the Earth.
2430
01:46:17,029 --> 01:46:19,358
But the goal is like New York City.
2431
01:46:19,359 --> 01:46:21,074
There's none of it right.
2432
01:46:21,075 --> 01:46:22,418
You got Central Park, and they
2433
01:46:22,419 --> 01:46:25,042
just got human shit stacked up.
2434
01:46:25,043 --> 01:46:26,258
No one's growing anything.
2435
01:46:26,259 --> 01:46:27,954
And then constant work.
2436
01:46:27,955 --> 01:46:29,378
Everyone's up early.
2437
01:46:29,379 --> 01:46:30,800
Go, go.
2438
01:46:30,801 --> 01:46:33,238
Innovate progress, make that money so
2439
01:46:33,239 --> 01:46:34,582
you can buy more things.
2440
01:46:34,583 --> 01:46:36,492
And every year, hey, Apple,
2441
01:46:36,493 --> 01:46:37,910
where's this fucking new phone?
2442
01:46:37,911 --> 01:46:40,918
As if your phone isn't good enough, your
2443
01:46:40,919 --> 01:46:43,846
phone's taking pictures and videos and people are
2444
01:46:43,847 --> 01:46:46,038
calling you and you got applications to tell
2445
01:46:46,039 --> 01:46:48,426
you which way the wind's blowing. It's not good enough.
2446
01:46:48,427 --> 01:46:50,938
A blink of an eye, it's all gone, though.
2447
01:46:50,939 --> 01:46:52,506
That like 10,000 years.
2448
01:46:52,507 --> 01:46:53,722
And the Hoover Dam goes,
2449
01:46:53,723 --> 01:46:56,048
or whatever Mount Rushmore disintegrates.
2450
01:46:56,049 --> 01:46:58,346
So it's amazing because we have created that
2451
01:46:58,347 --> 01:47:00,158
and everything's trying to spring up through that.
2452
01:47:00,159 --> 01:47:03,326
We keep it maintenance down, but we're a blink man.
2453
01:47:03,327 --> 01:47:04,436
Something hits.
2454
01:47:04,437 --> 01:47:06,046
But we don't think that way.
2455
01:47:06,047 --> 01:47:07,998
You think in terms of your own life, right?
2456
01:47:07,999 --> 01:47:10,386
You think in terms of what you want and what you need.
2457
01:47:10,387 --> 01:47:15,112
Right now, we are, in many ways, this combination
2458
01:47:15,113 --> 01:47:20,210
of this weird, primitive, ape like thing with the
2459
01:47:20,211 --> 01:47:23,778
ability to calculate and manipulate our world and our
2460
01:47:23,779 --> 01:47:25,516
environment that makes us wholly unique.
2461
01:47:25,517 --> 01:47:28,828
On top of that, with existential angst and fear.
2462
01:47:28,829 --> 01:47:29,638
So what do you do with that?
2463
01:47:29,639 --> 01:47:32,188
We fucking water it down with antidepressants.
2464
01:47:32,189 --> 01:47:33,398
Give these fucking people some
2465
01:47:33,399 --> 01:47:34,790
shit that keeps them moving.
2466
01:47:34,791 --> 01:47:36,006
They're worried about the future.
2467
01:47:36,007 --> 01:47:37,946
They're trying to figure out what reality is.
2468
01:47:37,947 --> 01:47:40,544
You're on a goddamn convertible spaceship, spending
2469
01:47:40,545 --> 01:47:43,344
1000 miles an hour hurling through infinity.
2470
01:47:43,345 --> 01:47:44,842
There's no meaning to this thing.
2471
01:47:44,843 --> 01:47:47,374
Just keep making shit, keep making stuff.
2472
01:47:47,375 --> 01:47:49,614
And then one day they're going to be able to
2473
01:47:49,615 --> 01:47:52,782
hit that switch and this life will be born out
2474
01:47:52,783 --> 01:47:57,006
of innovation and thinking and progress and technology.
2475
01:47:57,007 --> 01:48:00,258
And more than likely, it's probably going to be what
2476
01:48:00,259 --> 01:48:04,568
we're seeing that these things are that you're observing.
2477
01:48:04,569 --> 01:48:07,208
I'm not observing them, but yeah, someone's observing.
2478
01:48:07,209 --> 01:48:09,218
Are you implying that they're us?
2479
01:48:09,219 --> 01:48:11,830
I don't think they are us, but I think they are.
2480
01:48:11,831 --> 01:48:15,782
What happens when things keep going? It's not us.
2481
01:48:15,783 --> 01:48:17,638
Just like we're not monkeys, right?
2482
01:48:17,639 --> 01:48:19,228
I'm not a chimp.
2483
01:48:19,229 --> 01:48:20,326
That'd be cool.
2484
01:48:20,327 --> 01:48:21,334
They're from here.
2485
01:48:21,335 --> 01:48:22,422
Is your idea?
2486
01:48:22,423 --> 01:48:24,630
No, that this is what happens
2487
01:48:24,631 --> 01:48:26,668
all over the universe, right? Yeah, totally.
2488
01:48:26,669 --> 01:48:27,466
This is what happened.
2489
01:48:27,467 --> 01:48:28,634
Look, here's the thing.
2490
01:48:28,635 --> 01:48:30,660
I went to see Brian Cox's.
2491
01:48:31,320 --> 01:48:35,082
He has this amazing live show with Robin Ins
2492
01:48:35,083 --> 01:48:39,924
where they have these Led screens, these huge screens
2493
01:48:39,925 --> 01:48:42,948
with high resolution depictions of the cosmos.
2494
01:48:42,949 --> 01:48:46,702
And one of the most mind blowing things was he
2495
01:48:46,703 --> 01:48:50,002
has this large scale image of the universe and it
2496
01:48:50,003 --> 01:48:52,898
shows all the individual galaxies of the universe, and it
2497
01:48:52,899 --> 01:48:56,392
just keeps moving through all these galaxies in three dimensions.
2498
01:48:56,393 --> 01:48:58,200
And it's fucking incredible.
2499
01:48:58,201 --> 01:49:01,750
But what's stunning is the relative uniformity of it.
2500
01:49:01,751 --> 01:49:06,668
Even at me, you're obviously looking at an incredibly
2501
01:49:06,669 --> 01:49:10,118
small depiction of something that's immensely large, like a
2502
01:49:10,119 --> 01:49:11,852
galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars.
2503
01:49:11,853 --> 01:49:14,022
You're seeing it as this little dot, but this
2504
01:49:14,023 --> 01:49:18,266
little dot that's flying through space surrounded by other
2505
01:49:18,267 --> 01:49:22,458
little darts with very similarly spaced distances. Yeah.
2506
01:49:22,459 --> 01:49:23,140
Homage.
2507
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:27,338
So, Mike, if we see uniformity in that form, in
2508
01:49:27,339 --> 01:49:30,756
terms of the distance between galaxies, so many galaxies.
2509
01:49:30,757 --> 01:49:31,694
It's so similar.
2510
01:49:31,695 --> 01:49:33,998
They might vary slightly and that slightly might
2511
01:49:33,999 --> 01:49:36,380
be hundreds of millions of light years. Right?
2512
01:49:36,381 --> 01:49:38,628
But there's so much uniformity.
2513
01:49:38,629 --> 01:49:40,158
Why would we not assume that
2514
01:49:40,159 --> 01:49:42,744
that uniformity exists pretty much everywhere?
2515
01:49:42,745 --> 01:49:44,114
And that all these things that
2516
01:49:44,115 --> 01:49:45,474
you're seeing that are so similar.
2517
01:49:45,475 --> 01:49:47,848
You do see binary star systems.
2518
01:49:47,849 --> 01:49:49,842
You do see single star systems like Star.
2519
01:49:49,843 --> 01:49:52,658
But there's also some speculation that Earth and that our
2520
01:49:52,659 --> 01:49:55,718
solar system one time was a binary star system. Right?
2521
01:49:55,719 --> 01:49:58,566
I mean, that's one of the speculations about that
2522
01:49:58,567 --> 01:50:00,934
object that they find outside the Kuiper belt that
2523
01:50:00,935 --> 01:50:02,508
the thing is ten times larger than Earth.
2524
01:50:02,509 --> 01:50:03,510
They think it might have been at
2525
01:50:03,511 --> 01:50:04,906
one point in time, a star.
2526
01:50:04,907 --> 01:50:08,458
But this uniformity that you see, why wouldn't we
2527
01:50:08,459 --> 01:50:13,424
think that has its same implications biologically, that there's
2528
01:50:13,425 --> 01:50:16,026
some sort of a biological uniformity and that this
2529
01:50:16,027 --> 01:50:19,480
happens given the right sets of circumstances.
2530
01:50:19,481 --> 01:50:21,118
You should tell them some of the stuff that
2531
01:50:21,119 --> 01:50:23,262
you've read that you don't know is true.
2532
01:50:23,263 --> 01:50:24,942
I mean, if the stuff was
2533
01:50:24,943 --> 01:50:28,158
true about the propulsion stuff anyway.
2534
01:50:28,159 --> 01:50:30,830
Well, what have you read what you saw too?
2535
01:50:31,520 --> 01:50:32,830
What are you talking about?
2536
01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:35,500
Spill the beans, Bob.
2537
01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:37,634
I got to poke the bear here.
2538
01:50:37,635 --> 01:50:39,070
Get some more liquor in you.
2539
01:50:44,100 --> 01:50:47,100
Again, the only thing I could verify
2540
01:50:47,101 --> 01:50:49,330
was what I had my hands on.
2541
01:50:51,300 --> 01:50:53,612
There was talk of weapon systems,
2542
01:50:53,613 --> 01:50:55,264
that there were different projects.
2543
01:50:55,265 --> 01:50:57,994
Project Galileo, Project Sidekick was supposed to
2544
01:50:57,995 --> 01:51:00,180
be weapon applications of the craft.
2545
01:51:00,920 --> 01:51:03,754
Project Looking Glass had to do with time,
2546
01:51:03,755 --> 01:51:05,776
any effects of time in the craft.
2547
01:51:05,777 --> 01:51:08,446
Now, I don't think we're not talking about
2548
01:51:08,447 --> 01:51:10,900
making a time machine like in science fiction,
2549
01:51:10,901 --> 01:51:14,772
but we're talking about small distortions, intentional distortions
2550
01:51:14,773 --> 01:51:17,690
of time and how that can be used.
2551
01:51:20,780 --> 01:51:22,530
Well, it was part of a weapon program.
2552
01:51:22,531 --> 01:51:24,018
How are you informed in this?
2553
01:51:24,019 --> 01:51:25,362
These, again, were just those
2554
01:51:25,363 --> 01:51:27,058
small briefings that I read.
2555
01:51:27,059 --> 01:51:29,826
But again, I don't really like to talk about
2556
01:51:29,827 --> 01:51:31,938
those because I don't have any information on them.
2557
01:51:31,939 --> 01:51:34,088
And it was just small briefings.
2558
01:51:34,089 --> 01:51:36,534
But you told Commander Fraver that what he saw
2559
01:51:36,535 --> 01:51:39,478
might have been a time dilation in that.
2560
01:51:39,479 --> 01:51:40,774
Well, it could be because
2561
01:51:40,775 --> 01:51:43,376
gravity affects time spacetime.
2562
01:51:43,377 --> 01:51:44,698
I'm sure you've heard of that.
2563
01:51:44,699 --> 01:51:50,602
And what Commander Fraver saw as he was in the F
2564
01:51:50,603 --> 01:51:55,328
18 approaching it, he said he described it as a ping
2565
01:51:55,329 --> 01:51:57,492
pong ball in a cup and shaking it back and forth.
2566
01:51:57,493 --> 01:51:59,102
It was moving that fast.
2567
01:51:59,103 --> 01:52:01,902
Now, obviously, if there's anything inside there,
2568
01:52:01,903 --> 01:52:03,966
it's going to be battered to hell.
2569
01:52:03,967 --> 01:52:08,562
But my point was that, well, one of two things.
2570
01:52:08,563 --> 01:52:11,266
Either there's a gravitational envelope in there
2571
01:52:11,267 --> 01:52:16,002
which negates any inertia effects, or you
2572
01:52:16,003 --> 01:52:18,910
are seeing through a gravity distortion field.
2573
01:52:19,440 --> 01:52:23,464
So just like you're looking at a hot highway
2574
01:52:23,465 --> 01:52:27,606
and you see an optical distortion going through there,
2575
01:52:27,607 --> 01:52:29,388
well, the same thing happens in gravity.
2576
01:52:29,389 --> 01:52:31,702
And the craft may not actually be moving like that.
2577
01:52:31,703 --> 01:52:34,950
It may just look like it because you
2578
01:52:34,951 --> 01:52:37,562
can only see it through the field, so
2579
01:52:37,563 --> 01:52:40,144
it may be making much more gentle moves.
2580
01:52:40,145 --> 01:52:42,458
I'm not saying that's it but it
2581
01:52:42,459 --> 01:52:44,282
has to be one of the two.
2582
01:52:44,283 --> 01:52:46,922
And the thing shows up 60 miles away.
2583
01:52:46,923 --> 01:52:51,348
They noticed it on radar 60 seconds after it left commander
2584
01:52:51,349 --> 01:52:53,838
Fraver, but it was at his cap point, which is the
2585
01:52:53,839 --> 01:52:57,726
next point he was destined to go to, 60 miles away.
2586
01:52:57,727 --> 01:53:00,392
And in 60 seconds on radar,
2587
01:53:00,393 --> 01:53:03,362
the same object ends up there.
2588
01:53:03,363 --> 01:53:05,266
So it's going a mile a second.
2589
01:53:05,267 --> 01:53:09,656
No, I think the radar just picked it up in 60 seconds.
2590
01:53:09,657 --> 01:53:11,590
Yeah, it could have been there instantly, but
2591
01:53:11,591 --> 01:53:14,588
yeah, we don't know the cycles time. Nobody knows.
2592
01:53:14,589 --> 01:53:15,494
That's the whole thing.
2593
01:53:15,495 --> 01:53:17,840
So it cycles like radar cycles.
2594
01:53:18,580 --> 01:53:22,268
It doesn't sweep, but I mean, it's a planar
2595
01:53:22,269 --> 01:53:26,108
array, so it just scans around at random places
2596
01:53:26,109 --> 01:53:28,362
that's the spy one does the really cool it
2597
01:53:28,363 --> 01:53:31,034
doesn't do the whole loop anymore. Right.
2598
01:53:31,035 --> 01:53:33,856
The point is, though, that the craft moved
2599
01:53:33,857 --> 01:53:37,262
to his next location before he knew where
2600
01:53:37,263 --> 01:53:39,246
his next location was going to be.
2601
01:53:39,247 --> 01:53:44,724
Jesus, that's well documented.
2602
01:53:44,725 --> 01:53:48,754
So that's a pretty shocking piece of information.
2603
01:53:48,755 --> 01:53:50,434
What's fascinating to me, too, is that you
2604
01:53:50,435 --> 01:53:55,378
were discussing the way this reactor worked and
2605
01:53:55,379 --> 01:53:58,000
that these things were not really connected.
2606
01:53:58,001 --> 01:54:00,376
No, nothing is connected.
2607
01:54:00,377 --> 01:54:03,010
There's no wiring at all.
2608
01:54:04,820 --> 01:54:06,406
That freaks me the fuck out.
2609
01:54:06,407 --> 01:54:07,940
Charge your iPhone.
2610
01:54:07,941 --> 01:54:13,612
Wireless electromagnetic.
2611
01:54:13,613 --> 01:54:14,924
Yeah, I know, again, but that's
2612
01:54:14,925 --> 01:54:17,878
just simple electromagnetic magnetic induction. Right?
2613
01:54:17,879 --> 01:54:19,376
But I mean, tesla, the scientist
2614
01:54:19,377 --> 01:54:21,450
had this concept of right.
2615
01:54:21,451 --> 01:54:22,554
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
2616
01:54:22,555 --> 01:54:23,738
I mean, for other people that don't know what
2617
01:54:23,739 --> 01:54:27,338
we're saying, he wanted to send wireless electricity through
2618
01:54:27,339 --> 01:54:29,248
the sky, and westinghouse was like, get the fuck
2619
01:54:29,249 --> 01:54:31,342
out of here, with that when anybody could just
2620
01:54:31,343 --> 01:54:33,332
pull electricity out of the sky meter.
2621
01:54:33,333 --> 01:54:35,214
Yeah, they couldn't we had to talk in the
2622
01:54:35,215 --> 01:54:36,910
car right over I'm trying to chill him out.
2623
01:54:36,911 --> 01:54:39,268
We're talking about tesla and how he couldn't
2624
01:54:39,269 --> 01:54:40,962
be metered and how it all went down.
2625
01:54:40,963 --> 01:54:42,670
So it's funny you bring it up. Yeah.
2626
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:47,624
Who knows what would have happened in terms of innovation
2627
01:54:47,625 --> 01:54:49,874
had he been allowed to go forward with that?
2628
01:54:49,875 --> 01:54:53,398
Well, we probably wouldn't have computers, you think?
2629
01:54:53,399 --> 01:54:54,940
Yeah, I'm pretty positive.
2630
01:54:54,941 --> 01:54:56,956
I mean, forget about microelectronics.
2631
01:54:56,957 --> 01:54:59,228
Well, this is dumping huge amounts
2632
01:54:59,229 --> 01:55:01,062
of electromagnetic energy in the air.
2633
01:55:01,063 --> 01:55:03,798
And yeah, we'd be able to wirelessly turn on
2634
01:55:03,799 --> 01:55:07,920
our lights, but there'd be no radio communication.
2635
01:55:07,921 --> 01:55:09,306
The interference would be something
2636
01:55:09,307 --> 01:55:10,864
we could would be overwhelming.
2637
01:55:10,865 --> 01:55:13,610
It would induce electric currents in anything
2638
01:55:13,611 --> 01:55:14,938
with a small wire on it.
2639
01:55:14,939 --> 01:55:18,020
So integrated circuits, transistors would be disintegrated
2640
01:55:18,021 --> 01:55:21,300
before they were even tested for operation.
2641
01:55:21,301 --> 01:55:24,510
So it would destroy us up.
2642
01:55:24,511 --> 01:55:27,438
Yeah, it would have stopped us dead. It'd be great.
2643
01:55:27,439 --> 01:55:29,358
You can turn lighters on and heaters from
2644
01:55:29,359 --> 01:55:30,868
all over the place with no wires.
2645
01:55:30,869 --> 01:55:33,016
But it would stop modern electronics.
2646
01:55:33,017 --> 01:55:34,962
And if we became dependent on it, it would
2647
01:55:34,963 --> 01:55:37,752
almost be like our dependence on fossil fuels.
2648
01:55:37,753 --> 01:55:39,778
Although it's destructive, it's very difficult for
2649
01:55:39,779 --> 01:55:41,600
us to get off the nipple.
2650
01:55:41,601 --> 01:55:43,378
It would have changed the course of how we
2651
01:55:43,379 --> 01:55:45,382
developed, which is so interesting when you talk about
2652
01:55:45,383 --> 01:55:48,102
if a civilization of the star system didn't even
2653
01:55:48,103 --> 01:55:50,678
start with fossil fuels, they had 115 naturally on
2654
01:55:50,679 --> 01:55:52,006
their planet, and they're like, Cool.
2655
01:55:52,007 --> 01:55:53,498
Antigravity is pretty awesome.
2656
01:55:53,499 --> 01:55:54,634
Well, the fact that they I think
2657
01:55:54,635 --> 01:55:58,040
it's important that that actually happened. Yeah.
2658
01:55:58,041 --> 01:56:01,002
It might have been stopped in its tracks for a reason.
2659
01:56:01,003 --> 01:56:01,860
Whoa.
2660
01:56:05,580 --> 01:56:07,518
I think it's incredibly difficult for us
2661
01:56:07,519 --> 01:56:10,772
to imagine technological progression under another timeline
2662
01:56:10,773 --> 01:56:12,548
other than the one that we've experienced.
2663
01:56:12,549 --> 01:56:13,850
Yeah, that's difficult.
2664
01:56:14,460 --> 01:56:18,398
If we imagine what this alien race must have
2665
01:56:18,399 --> 01:56:23,010
been like god, just to be able to see
2666
01:56:23,011 --> 01:56:26,328
something obviously, we've seen it in different life forms.
2667
01:56:26,329 --> 01:56:26,498
Right.
2668
01:56:26,499 --> 01:56:28,440
Like, we see the life of certain beetles
2669
01:56:28,441 --> 01:56:30,808
in comparison to the life of certain fish.
2670
01:56:30,809 --> 01:56:34,572
Very different existence, very different life cycles.
2671
01:56:34,573 --> 01:56:35,340
Octopus.
2672
01:56:35,341 --> 01:56:36,748
Yeah, octopus.
2673
01:56:36,749 --> 01:56:38,918
We see all these different variables in terms of
2674
01:56:38,919 --> 01:56:41,798
biological entities on Earth, but we don't see it
2675
01:56:41,799 --> 01:56:44,534
in terms of technological innovation, as we're the only
2676
01:56:44,535 --> 01:56:47,036
one that's intelligent that can innovate.
2677
01:56:47,037 --> 01:56:49,680
We have intelligent creatures, but they're in the ocean.
2678
01:56:49,681 --> 01:56:50,858
The only other thing that are like
2679
01:56:50,859 --> 01:56:52,816
us are dolphins and orcas and whales.
2680
01:56:52,817 --> 01:56:53,818
And they don't have the
2681
01:56:53,819 --> 01:56:55,392
ability to manipulate their environment.
2682
01:56:55,393 --> 01:56:58,832
And subsequently, because they don't have the ability to manipulate
2683
01:56:58,833 --> 01:57:01,444
their environment, we put them in fish tanks, and we're,
2684
01:57:01,445 --> 01:57:03,530
like, get in the tank, do some tricks. Right.
2685
01:57:04,060 --> 01:57:06,718
The only thing he saw in the craft if we
2686
01:57:06,719 --> 01:57:09,838
were considering Bob's story, the only thing that he saw
2687
01:57:09,839 --> 01:57:12,098
in the craft that he related to that looked like
2688
01:57:12,099 --> 01:57:14,728
a human could make was this honeycomb hatch.
2689
01:57:14,729 --> 01:57:16,514
And I always love that because you're, like,
2690
01:57:16,515 --> 01:57:19,704
obsessed with this thing that you could recognize.
2691
01:57:19,705 --> 01:57:22,118
Yeah, I only focus on that because it was
2692
01:57:22,119 --> 01:57:25,190
the one thing that I understood how it worked.
2693
01:57:25,191 --> 01:57:25,782
What was it?
2694
01:57:25,783 --> 01:57:28,694
And it was the access to the level below.
2695
01:57:28,695 --> 01:57:35,420
And it was well, if you take a six pack of beer
2696
01:57:35,421 --> 01:57:39,072
and you take out the cardboard dividers, set it on the table,
2697
01:57:39,073 --> 01:57:42,938
you can put a lot of pressure on the top, but if
2698
01:57:42,939 --> 01:57:45,632
you push it from the sides, it collapses flat.
2699
01:57:45,633 --> 01:57:48,516
So it was something like that in a honeycomb shape
2700
01:57:48,517 --> 01:57:52,638
that was essentially some sort of sheet metal, and you
2701
01:57:52,639 --> 01:57:54,894
could walk on that in the upper layer, but if
2702
01:57:54,895 --> 01:57:57,828
you took the corner, stuck your finger in and pushed,
2703
01:57:57,829 --> 01:58:01,140
it collapsed and made an entryway.
2704
01:58:01,141 --> 01:58:02,654
So I thought that was a really
2705
01:58:02,655 --> 01:58:04,546
unique I'd never seen that before.
2706
01:58:04,547 --> 01:58:05,874
And it was the only thing in the
2707
01:58:05,875 --> 01:58:07,538
craft that made absolute sense to me.
2708
01:58:07,539 --> 01:58:09,826
I said, we can make that, and
2709
01:58:09,827 --> 01:58:11,320
all that is is a hatchway.
2710
01:58:11,321 --> 01:58:14,428
Was there any discussion about the materials
2711
01:58:14,429 --> 01:58:16,236
that were used to make the craft?
2712
01:58:16,237 --> 01:58:18,022
I'm sure there was, but that was the
2713
01:58:18,023 --> 01:58:20,374
metallurgy division had nothing to do with us.
2714
01:58:20,375 --> 01:58:22,422
So you never got not.
2715
01:58:22,423 --> 01:58:23,612
Even the slightest briefing.
2716
01:58:23,613 --> 01:58:26,760
I don't even know if it was metal or it was ceramic.
2717
01:58:26,761 --> 01:58:30,280
I think there's a fine line between the two.
2718
01:58:30,281 --> 01:58:32,938
Now, one of the things that's happened to you
2719
01:58:32,939 --> 01:58:36,836
that has allowed people to discredit you was there's
2720
01:58:36,837 --> 01:58:39,572
obviously been some sort of an effort to erase
2721
01:58:39,573 --> 01:58:44,116
your past, some sort of an effort to erase
2722
01:58:44,117 --> 01:58:48,340
your education history, your employment history at Los Almos.
2723
01:58:48,341 --> 01:58:50,638
In fact, the only way your employment history was
2724
01:58:50,639 --> 01:58:52,702
proven at Los Almos is someone got a list
2725
01:58:52,703 --> 01:58:56,178
of directory of the employees from the past and
2726
01:58:56,179 --> 01:58:57,954
read into it, and you were on that list.
2727
01:58:57,955 --> 01:58:59,458
So it proved that you worked there even though
2728
01:58:59,459 --> 01:59:00,658
people were trying to deny it and they were
2729
01:59:00,659 --> 01:59:02,184
trying to use that as a way to discredit
2730
01:59:02,185 --> 01:59:03,868
you, that you never did work at Los Alamos.
2731
01:59:03,869 --> 01:59:05,520
You weren't really a scientist.
2732
01:59:06,980 --> 01:59:08,694
What was that like to experience?
2733
01:59:08,695 --> 01:59:11,318
I mean, of course, we're talking about the 1980s, the
2734
01:59:11,319 --> 01:59:14,920
1990s, when you could get away with something like that.
2735
01:59:14,921 --> 01:59:15,578
Yeah.
2736
01:59:15,579 --> 01:59:19,402
Obviously there are a lot less
2737
01:59:19,403 --> 01:59:21,082
records on computers at that time.
2738
01:59:21,083 --> 01:59:23,002
It was still file cabinets and
2739
01:59:23,003 --> 01:59:25,792
folders, but yeah, that was frightening.
2740
01:59:25,793 --> 01:59:30,062
That was one of the first things I think
2741
01:59:30,063 --> 01:59:32,606
George Knapp was the first one that uncovered that.
2742
01:59:32,607 --> 01:59:35,640
I mean, he saw my birth certificate disappear.
2743
01:59:36,220 --> 01:59:37,806
It disappeared. Yeah.
2744
01:59:37,807 --> 01:59:38,942
There was no record of your being
2745
01:59:38,943 --> 01:59:40,910
yeah, there was no record of that.
2746
01:59:42,240 --> 01:59:43,842
His mom tells me about that.
2747
01:59:43,843 --> 01:59:46,160
Like, it was frightening for her.
2748
01:59:46,161 --> 01:59:48,210
He's got a real family, he's a real person.
2749
01:59:48,211 --> 01:59:49,810
It's frightening for her.
2750
01:59:49,811 --> 01:59:52,536
But the Los Alamos thing really surprised
2751
01:59:52,537 --> 01:59:54,892
me and that they were so adamant
2752
01:59:54,893 --> 01:59:56,518
that, no, this guy never worked here.
2753
01:59:56,519 --> 01:59:57,452
Don't be ridiculous.
2754
01:59:57,453 --> 01:59:59,958
And George went back and forth for I
2755
01:59:59,959 --> 02:00:01,750
got the letters on the wall months.
2756
02:00:01,751 --> 02:00:03,312
I mean, it was ridiculous.
2757
02:00:03,313 --> 02:00:05,562
But fortunately, somebody came up with
2758
02:00:05,563 --> 02:00:08,360
a 1982 phone book directory.
2759
02:00:08,361 --> 02:00:14,330
And also, originally, I told you when I worked there,
2760
02:00:14,331 --> 02:00:16,394
I was on the front page of the paper.
2761
02:00:16,395 --> 02:00:18,884
So they were still able to archive,
2762
02:00:18,885 --> 02:00:20,292
bring that back from the archives.
2763
02:00:20,293 --> 02:00:22,868
And Bob Lazar, a physicist working here at Los
2764
02:00:22,869 --> 02:00:25,902
Alamo, so there was at least something there.
2765
02:00:25,903 --> 02:00:29,614
But somehow George came up with the phone directory, and
2766
02:00:29,615 --> 02:00:33,880
then Bob took George with cameras into Los Alamos.
2767
02:00:33,881 --> 02:00:34,642
Oh, yeah.
2768
02:00:34,643 --> 02:00:37,426
So we flew out there and I said, look, come on in.
2769
02:00:37,427 --> 02:00:38,690
I'll show you where I worked.
2770
02:00:38,691 --> 02:00:40,226
We'll go in, we'll meet people.
2771
02:00:40,227 --> 02:00:45,394
And George went with me, navigate the place. Oh, yeah.
2772
02:00:45,395 --> 02:00:46,430
Met people.
2773
02:00:47,040 --> 02:00:51,356
Los Alamos was also the place where they had the machine
2774
02:00:51,357 --> 02:00:54,764
that was able to read the size of your digits.
2775
02:00:54,765 --> 02:00:57,530
No, that was s four. That was s four.
2776
02:00:57,531 --> 02:00:59,030
And explain that.
2777
02:01:00,200 --> 02:01:02,458
Now, this was back in the this is
2778
02:01:02,459 --> 02:01:04,544
back in the 80s where when you discussed
2779
02:01:04,545 --> 02:01:06,868
this, people are like, this doesn't even exist.
2780
02:01:06,869 --> 02:01:08,542
Yeah, okay, what was it?
2781
02:01:08,543 --> 02:01:11,908
It was a way this is before fingerprint scanners
2782
02:01:11,909 --> 02:01:18,286
and any high resolution scanner at that time.
2783
02:01:18,287 --> 02:01:21,518
So what it was was a device that had a little
2784
02:01:21,519 --> 02:01:24,578
picture of a hand on a glass plate with pins in
2785
02:01:24,579 --> 02:01:27,058
it so you could jam your hand in there and there
2786
02:01:27,059 --> 02:01:29,720
was a bright light above it and a sensor underneath.
2787
02:01:29,721 --> 02:01:32,326
And when you put your hand in there, the light
2788
02:01:32,327 --> 02:01:34,998
would turn on and it would measure the bones in
2789
02:01:34,999 --> 02:01:38,636
your finger because the light shone through your bones.
2790
02:01:38,637 --> 02:01:43,158
And apparently the length of the bones in your
2791
02:01:43,159 --> 02:01:46,172
fingers are extremely unique and easy to measure.
2792
02:01:46,173 --> 02:01:47,718
And they use that.
2793
02:01:47,719 --> 02:01:49,402
When you put your hands on there, the light
2794
02:01:49,403 --> 02:01:51,306
would turn on and your badge would pop out.
2795
02:01:51,307 --> 02:01:53,642
There's it right there. Oh, there it is. That's it.
2796
02:01:53,643 --> 02:01:56,538
And I tried to describe this to people and they
2797
02:01:56,539 --> 02:01:59,706
said, that is the most ridiculous thing we've ever heard.
2798
02:01:59,707 --> 02:02:03,518
And I said, hey, my badge came out of that thing.
2799
02:02:03,519 --> 02:02:06,164
I put my hand on it, badge popped out and that's
2800
02:02:06,165 --> 02:02:08,490
how I could open the doors and get into S Four.
2801
02:02:10,060 --> 02:02:11,662
And everybody discredited that.
2802
02:02:11,663 --> 02:02:13,768
They said it was bullshit, it was science fiction.
2803
02:02:13,769 --> 02:02:14,392
And Jeremy.
2804
02:02:14,393 --> 02:02:16,000
You found this?
2805
02:02:16,001 --> 02:02:17,282
I found it through a good
2806
02:02:17,283 --> 02:02:19,048
friend of mine named Tyler Rogueway.
2807
02:02:19,049 --> 02:02:20,834
And he had some good sources inside of
2808
02:02:20,835 --> 02:02:23,618
Area 52 where they also used these for
2809
02:02:23,619 --> 02:02:26,098
the stealth program right around that time.
2810
02:02:26,099 --> 02:02:27,458
So now I've got all these people that
2811
02:02:27,459 --> 02:02:30,866
worked within who said only if you're in
2812
02:02:30,867 --> 02:02:32,864
certain programs would we use this technology knowledge.
2813
02:02:32,865 --> 02:02:33,802
It was kind of shit, actually.
2814
02:02:33,803 --> 02:02:36,112
They didn't keep it for very long beginning of biometrics,
2815
02:02:36,113 --> 02:02:38,064
so I was able to reveal it in my film.
2816
02:02:38,065 --> 02:02:40,682
I kept my mouth shut until I showed it to
2817
02:02:40,683 --> 02:02:43,002
Bob in the movie is the first time he saw
2818
02:02:43,003 --> 02:02:44,832
it was how you see it in the documentary.
2819
02:02:44,833 --> 02:02:46,704
That's his genuine reaction. I'm getting goosebumps.
2820
02:02:46,705 --> 02:02:48,522
That was a great idea, the way you did it.
2821
02:02:48,523 --> 02:02:50,010
Thank you, man. Because you know what? Guess what?
2822
02:02:50,011 --> 02:02:52,288
I'm actually trying to see if he's telling the truth.
2823
02:02:52,289 --> 02:02:54,266
That's how I started. That's how I started.
2824
02:02:54,267 --> 02:02:56,618
So it was really cool to see that you get to see it.
2825
02:02:56,619 --> 02:02:58,680
His actual reaction.
2826
02:02:58,681 --> 02:03:00,882
Has that been verified by other people?
2827
02:03:00,883 --> 02:03:03,570
Yeah, so to me it has.
2828
02:03:03,571 --> 02:03:06,584
Personally, I get emails every day and people are telling
2829
02:03:06,585 --> 02:03:08,482
me where these are used and how they're used.
2830
02:03:08,483 --> 02:03:09,874
And semi photos, I got a lot
2831
02:03:09,875 --> 02:03:11,122
of photos of identity mats now.
2832
02:03:11,123 --> 02:03:12,338
Well, how they were used. Right?
2833
02:03:12,339 --> 02:03:13,974
They're not how they were used.
2834
02:03:13,975 --> 02:03:17,286
Yeah, but the most recent one was way
2835
02:03:17,287 --> 02:03:18,886
more recent than I thought, in another country.
2836
02:03:18,887 --> 02:03:21,430
But yeah, that technology was used.
2837
02:03:21,431 --> 02:03:27,238
So what's so funny is that this technology, even in the
2838
02:03:27,239 --> 02:03:29,978
area 52 where they'd use them for Tonapa, one of the
2839
02:03:29,979 --> 02:03:32,538
guys who will go on camera with me, he will do
2840
02:03:32,539 --> 02:03:35,114
an interview with me, he was a technician for one of
2841
02:03:35,115 --> 02:03:37,930
these and he hated them because they were really bad.
2842
02:03:37,931 --> 02:03:39,978
They always broke down and never and
2843
02:03:39,979 --> 02:03:41,326
he was a technician for him.
2844
02:03:41,327 --> 02:03:44,318
Now he won't tell me where if he worked at Area 52.
2845
02:03:44,319 --> 02:03:46,052
So it was probably Tona paw.
2846
02:03:46,053 --> 02:03:47,966
It's very separated, even on the base.
2847
02:03:47,967 --> 02:03:50,834
But yeah, so there was that
2848
02:03:50,835 --> 02:03:53,906
there is your education record.
2849
02:03:53,907 --> 02:03:56,510
That was also, like what happened with that?
2850
02:03:57,680 --> 02:03:59,550
Well, that disappeared also.
2851
02:04:02,740 --> 02:04:05,490
I've never gone anywhere for education.
2852
02:04:06,740 --> 02:04:08,972
I never attended any classes at Caltech.
2853
02:04:08,973 --> 02:04:10,800
I never attended anything at MIT.
2854
02:04:11,700 --> 02:04:14,076
You did attend classes in those places?
2855
02:04:14,077 --> 02:04:15,772
I did attend classes in those places.
2856
02:04:15,773 --> 02:04:18,170
Do you know anybody that you went to school with?
2857
02:04:18,171 --> 02:04:19,114
Yes, I do.
2858
02:04:19,115 --> 02:04:20,778
And have they verified that they
2859
02:04:20,779 --> 02:04:21,562
went to school with you?
2860
02:04:21,563 --> 02:04:25,354
Well, I gave Jeremy some names, but yeah, the reason
2861
02:04:25,355 --> 02:04:29,294
I don't say these names publicly is because every single
2862
02:04:29,295 --> 02:04:32,132
time I mention a name, somebody gets injured.
2863
02:04:32,133 --> 02:04:33,886
You don't want to be of course.
2864
02:04:33,887 --> 02:04:35,770
Yeah, of course.
2865
02:04:36,460 --> 02:04:39,074
But what is that experience like seeing
2866
02:04:39,075 --> 02:04:42,872
your birth certificate erased, seeing your employment?
2867
02:04:42,873 --> 02:04:44,280
Well, it's frightening.
2868
02:04:44,281 --> 02:04:45,608
It's absolutely frightening.
2869
02:04:45,609 --> 02:04:47,848
It's also the fuel that the debunkers
2870
02:04:47,849 --> 02:04:50,168
use, the so called air quote, skeptics.
2871
02:04:50,169 --> 02:04:51,848
I don't like the term skeptics.
2872
02:04:51,849 --> 02:04:53,122
I'm going to say this publicly because
2873
02:04:53,123 --> 02:04:54,604
I really only said this privately.
2874
02:04:54,605 --> 02:04:56,758
I think it's a sloppy, lazy way to
2875
02:04:56,759 --> 02:05:00,100
look at things, to just be a skeptic.
2876
02:05:00,101 --> 02:05:03,888
I want people to be objective, and I think there's
2877
02:05:03,889 --> 02:05:06,442
a lot of things you should be skeptical of.
2878
02:05:06,443 --> 02:05:09,546
I think you should look at things and
2879
02:05:09,547 --> 02:05:13,728
look at things from a hardline science perspective.
2880
02:05:13,729 --> 02:05:15,088
You should be objective.
2881
02:05:15,089 --> 02:05:17,098
But the idea of skeptics, the problem with
2882
02:05:17,099 --> 02:05:18,794
that is you're always looking for things to
2883
02:05:18,795 --> 02:05:21,258
be bullshit, and I think that's dangerous because
2884
02:05:21,259 --> 02:05:22,788
I think some things aren't bullshit.
2885
02:05:22,789 --> 02:05:23,828
It's confirmation bias.
2886
02:05:23,829 --> 02:05:25,806
On the other end, you're just deciding to take a square
2887
02:05:25,807 --> 02:05:27,710
thing and put it in a round hole no matter what.
2888
02:05:27,711 --> 02:05:29,438
And I find a lot of them to be
2889
02:05:29,439 --> 02:05:32,164
lazy, a lot of them to be lazy thinkers
2890
02:05:32,165 --> 02:05:34,594
because they're always putting it into that box.
2891
02:05:34,595 --> 02:05:38,072
Instead of going instead of just separating
2892
02:05:38,073 --> 02:05:40,418
their ego, they're playing a game, and
2893
02:05:40,419 --> 02:05:42,072
the game is calling bullshit.
2894
02:05:42,073 --> 02:05:44,162
I want to call bullshit, and I'm going to line
2895
02:05:44,163 --> 02:05:46,294
up all these reasons why it's bullshit, and I'm going
2896
02:05:46,295 --> 02:05:49,340
to ignore anything that might be contrary to that definition.
2897
02:05:49,341 --> 02:05:51,110
Yeah, that does every time I'm thinking
2898
02:05:51,111 --> 02:05:53,302
I'm going to catch him in something. All along.
2899
02:05:53,303 --> 02:05:55,628
This process I found Dr. Crangle.
2900
02:05:55,629 --> 02:05:57,270
He came forward and said, I was in security
2901
02:05:57,271 --> 02:06:00,048
briefings with Bob Lazar, the physicist at Los Anamos.
2902
02:06:00,049 --> 02:06:01,434
He went on the record with me.
2903
02:06:01,435 --> 02:06:03,258
Now, the other people I talked with, why
2904
02:06:03,259 --> 02:06:04,778
won't they go on the record with me?
2905
02:06:04,779 --> 02:06:06,390
Because they're still working there.
2906
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:08,926
So that's the difference. Right.
2907
02:06:08,927 --> 02:06:10,334
What can the public have?
2908
02:06:10,335 --> 02:06:11,982
Or even if they're not working there,
2909
02:06:11,983 --> 02:06:13,742
they want to live their lives.
2910
02:06:13,743 --> 02:06:15,678
Obviously, people have seen what's happened to
2911
02:06:15,679 --> 02:06:19,138
you, Mike Bigpin, after 30 years. Yeah.
2912
02:06:19,139 --> 02:06:21,282
Really, if you look at all the
2913
02:06:21,283 --> 02:06:27,560
information on concerning my accounts, that's verifiable.
2914
02:06:27,561 --> 02:06:31,000
It can't possibly be a bullshit story anymore.
2915
02:06:31,001 --> 02:06:33,230
It's really way past that point.
2916
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:35,654
That was my Fig pen is I
2917
02:06:35,655 --> 02:06:37,810
mean, how could I possibly know?
2918
02:06:38,980 --> 02:06:42,278
So Mike Figpen was the guy that did
2919
02:06:42,279 --> 02:06:44,748
the security clearances to go to the Bait.
2920
02:06:44,749 --> 02:06:45,994
One of the guys that was and this is a
2921
02:06:45,995 --> 02:06:49,030
guy that you work with, he said he did. Right.
2922
02:06:50,360 --> 02:06:51,642
George didn't believe him.
2923
02:06:51,643 --> 02:06:54,378
George put him through four polygraph tests. Right?
2924
02:06:54,379 --> 02:06:56,880
He tried to see, man, this is a big risk.
2925
02:06:56,881 --> 02:06:58,714
It sounds interesting, but let's see
2926
02:06:58,715 --> 02:06:59,920
if he's telling the truth.
2927
02:06:59,921 --> 02:07:01,998
One of the things was Bob said
2928
02:07:01,999 --> 02:07:03,044
there was a guy named Mike Figpen.
2929
02:07:03,045 --> 02:07:04,894
He did security clearances for the base.
2930
02:07:04,895 --> 02:07:06,382
And that's a weird name.
2931
02:07:06,383 --> 02:07:07,450
It's very specific.
2932
02:07:07,980 --> 02:07:11,668
For 30 years, George found this guy in this weird
2933
02:07:11,669 --> 02:07:14,196
department that he didn't even know it was Mike Figin.
2934
02:07:14,197 --> 02:07:15,138
The guy wouldn't talk to me.
2935
02:07:15,139 --> 02:07:17,010
Ghosted him, totally ghost him for 30 years.
2936
02:07:17,011 --> 02:07:18,904
Used Facebook and Google image
2937
02:07:18,905 --> 02:07:20,290
match through his children.
2938
02:07:20,291 --> 02:07:23,058
I was able to find him after 30 years, and
2939
02:07:23,059 --> 02:07:24,902
I talked to him three times on the phone.
2940
02:07:24,903 --> 02:07:26,220
He lives on the east coast.
2941
02:07:26,221 --> 02:07:28,262
He almost went on camera with me.
2942
02:07:28,263 --> 02:07:30,188
Confirmed that he did security clearances
2943
02:07:30,189 --> 02:07:31,846
for the base in 1989.
2944
02:07:31,847 --> 02:07:34,044
Confirmed he remembers Bob Lazar.
2945
02:07:34,045 --> 02:07:36,268
And what you don't know is there's a handwritten
2946
02:07:36,269 --> 02:07:39,754
note that a friend of yours has from Mike. What?
2947
02:07:39,755 --> 02:07:40,554
I know I'm going to give it
2948
02:07:40,555 --> 02:07:42,202
to you later, but that is real.
2949
02:07:42,203 --> 02:07:44,650
That is actual handwritten note. That says what?
2950
02:07:44,651 --> 02:07:45,910
This is new to me.
2951
02:07:50,380 --> 02:07:53,438
When they do security clearances, they go through all
2952
02:07:53,439 --> 02:07:55,310
your friends and family go to your friends. Yeah.
2953
02:07:55,311 --> 02:07:56,852
So this is to Bob.
2954
02:07:56,853 --> 02:07:59,118
And I had people come to me for
2955
02:07:59,119 --> 02:08:00,724
a friend of mine that's serving, and they're
2956
02:08:00,725 --> 02:08:01,918
doing a security clearance for him.
2957
02:08:01,919 --> 02:08:05,074
And even though I'm like the UFO guy, they did the
2958
02:08:05,075 --> 02:08:07,922
FBI come and visit my house and make sure that they
2959
02:08:07,923 --> 02:08:10,754
talk about my friend, and they lift a little card.
2960
02:08:10,755 --> 02:08:12,658
And when my wife told him to get away because he
2961
02:08:12,659 --> 02:08:14,482
didn't know who they were, they left a little card.
2962
02:08:14,483 --> 02:08:15,288
It's super cute.
2963
02:08:15,289 --> 02:08:17,666
Now, back then, it was a handwritten note, and
2964
02:08:17,667 --> 02:08:19,448
his friend has it for him that you haven't
2965
02:08:19,449 --> 02:08:22,680
seen in, oh, my God, two decades.
2966
02:08:22,681 --> 02:08:24,138
So if you're listening, how come
2967
02:08:24,139 --> 02:08:27,258
you're telling what is this card?
2968
02:08:27,259 --> 02:08:29,984
It's just a little handwritten note with Mike Figpin's
2969
02:08:29,985 --> 02:08:33,754
signature card, like a postcard, like a piece of
2970
02:08:33,755 --> 02:08:35,898
paper that he left on the door saying when
2971
02:08:35,899 --> 02:08:38,250
Bob gets back, or whatever it says on it.
2972
02:08:38,251 --> 02:08:40,042
So it's just another little funny thing.
2973
02:08:40,043 --> 02:08:42,132
I found the guy, he does the security clearances.
2974
02:08:42,133 --> 02:08:43,678
He admitted to me he did it, and he
2975
02:08:43,679 --> 02:08:45,678
admitted to me he was dodging George Knapp, because
2976
02:08:45,679 --> 02:08:48,862
when George said his name on the news, he
2977
02:08:48,863 --> 02:08:51,118
dropped his fork into his steak or into his
2978
02:08:51,119 --> 02:08:53,352
potatoes or whatever, and he's looking at his wife.
2979
02:08:53,353 --> 02:08:54,296
He was in trouble.
2980
02:08:54,297 --> 02:08:55,778
His name's never supposed to be out there.
2981
02:08:55,779 --> 02:08:57,570
Like, it's just a security clearance guy,
2982
02:08:57,571 --> 02:09:00,072
but you don't want national attention associated
2983
02:09:00,073 --> 02:09:01,842
with anything Bob has to say.
2984
02:09:01,843 --> 02:09:04,322
But anyway, this unique name bob said
2985
02:09:04,323 --> 02:09:06,108
for 30 years, and the guy ghosted
2986
02:09:06,109 --> 02:09:08,204
George Knapp george could prove he existed.
2987
02:09:08,205 --> 02:09:09,542
He actually talked to me, man.
2988
02:09:09,543 --> 02:09:10,790
He talked to me three times.
2989
02:09:10,791 --> 02:09:12,838
He almost went on camera with me.
2990
02:09:12,839 --> 02:09:15,706
It's just crazy what happens after 30 years.
2991
02:09:15,707 --> 02:09:16,880
You just get more info.
2992
02:09:16,881 --> 02:09:20,202
Well, that's one of the reasons why when you
2993
02:09:20,203 --> 02:09:23,498
and me and Jeremy and George Knapp had that
2994
02:09:23,499 --> 02:09:27,342
conversation on the phone, I said, I think what
2995
02:09:27,343 --> 02:09:31,580
we can do with this podcast is important.
2996
02:09:31,581 --> 02:09:32,718
I really do.
2997
02:09:32,719 --> 02:09:36,206
I think it's important for people to hear this from
2998
02:09:36,207 --> 02:09:42,110
you in a very clear, just very concise way.
2999
02:09:43,120 --> 02:09:46,728
And if you examine all the information that you've
3000
02:09:46,729 --> 02:09:49,202
said today, if you look at all the things
3001
02:09:49,203 --> 02:09:51,238
that the detractors have said, if you look at
3002
02:09:51,239 --> 02:09:54,582
all of the new, recent evidence that's coming out
3003
02:09:54,583 --> 02:09:58,198
and all these really high level people in the
3004
02:09:58,199 --> 02:10:00,770
military and the government that are discussing this.
3005
02:10:01,300 --> 02:10:06,342
It gives you far more credibility than you would
3006
02:10:06,343 --> 02:10:10,186
have had in the 19 when this came out. Fuck yes.
3007
02:10:10,187 --> 02:10:12,218
You can't ignore his story just
3008
02:10:12,219 --> 02:10:13,856
because you don't like it anymore.
3009
02:10:13,857 --> 02:10:15,482
That's why I thought it was important that you come
3010
02:10:15,483 --> 02:10:18,986
out and refresh the world's memory and let people know.
3011
02:10:18,987 --> 02:10:21,988
And like I said, I want to say I'm a fan of yours,
3012
02:10:21,989 --> 02:10:24,308
but I guess I'm a fan of yours as a human being, I'm
3013
02:10:24,309 --> 02:10:27,156
a fan of yours, but I've been following you for decades.
3014
02:10:27,157 --> 02:10:30,072
I've been following the story for decades. No kidding.
3015
02:10:30,073 --> 02:10:31,592
I have VHS tape, Bob.
3016
02:10:31,593 --> 02:10:33,218
Like a lot of the world has.
3017
02:10:33,219 --> 02:10:34,482
Yeah, it's crazy.
3018
02:10:34,483 --> 02:10:38,226
Well, anybody that has any sort of vested interest
3019
02:10:38,227 --> 02:10:43,842
or just even just a fascination with UFOs has
3020
02:10:43,843 --> 02:10:47,654
followed your story because there's no one else.
3021
02:10:47,655 --> 02:10:49,302
There's no one else that comes for this.
3022
02:10:49,303 --> 02:10:50,518
Some guy who said, I
3023
02:10:50,519 --> 02:10:51,708
worked underground with the aliens.
3024
02:10:51,709 --> 02:10:52,582
They shot my hand off.
3025
02:10:52,583 --> 02:10:54,620
Like, there's a bunch of wacky dudes.
3026
02:10:54,621 --> 02:10:56,028
They're underground, there's bases.
3027
02:10:56,029 --> 02:10:57,568
They're shooting lasers through the earth's crust,
3028
02:10:57,569 --> 02:10:59,264
and they move them at light speed.
3029
02:10:59,265 --> 02:11:00,698
There's a lot of those guys.
3030
02:11:00,699 --> 02:11:02,730
They seem schizophrenic. They seem crazy.
3031
02:11:02,731 --> 02:11:04,842
They might even be disinformation agents.
3032
02:11:04,843 --> 02:11:06,938
They might be people that are designed to
3033
02:11:06,939 --> 02:11:09,758
muddy the waters, which for sure has happened.
3034
02:11:09,759 --> 02:11:11,966
People are coming forward, though, now. It's amazing.
3035
02:11:11,967 --> 02:11:13,908
And by doing this, what you're doing, you're providing
3036
02:11:13,909 --> 02:11:16,414
an opportunity for Bob to tell his story.
3037
02:11:16,415 --> 02:11:18,734
Believe it or not, he can tell his story.
3038
02:11:18,735 --> 02:11:21,646
It's amazing because more people will come forward
3039
02:11:21,647 --> 02:11:24,760
now that are involved with these projects.
3040
02:11:24,761 --> 02:11:26,306
They'll come forward to you, to me.
3041
02:11:26,307 --> 02:11:27,170
They're coming forward.
3042
02:11:27,171 --> 02:11:28,482
And so what you've done here is
3043
02:11:28,483 --> 02:11:30,594
provide that opportunity if they need it.
3044
02:11:30,595 --> 02:11:31,346
And it's amazing.
3045
02:11:31,347 --> 02:11:33,730
I just want to say, Bob, just don't come forward to me.
3046
02:11:33,731 --> 02:11:35,600
No, don't come forward to Bob.
3047
02:11:36,820 --> 02:11:39,478
Why were you freaking nauseous at the
3048
02:11:39,479 --> 02:11:42,740
beginning of this, like, so upset?
3049
02:11:42,741 --> 02:11:43,724
Why did you have a migraine?
3050
02:11:43,725 --> 02:11:45,238
Because that started off so hard my God.
3051
02:11:45,239 --> 02:11:46,246
I was sitting here like, did this?
3052
02:11:46,247 --> 02:11:47,578
Why are you asking him why?
3053
02:11:47,579 --> 02:11:49,136
Because obvious anxiety.
3054
02:11:49,137 --> 02:11:50,266
The guy's gone through 30
3055
02:11:50,267 --> 02:11:51,728
fucking years of being persecuted.
3056
02:11:51,729 --> 02:11:53,540
I just want to raise his birth certificate.
3057
02:11:54,600 --> 02:11:56,250
I want to hear him say I want them.
3058
02:11:56,251 --> 02:11:57,610
Why do I have to say that?
3059
02:11:58,700 --> 02:11:59,566
I step out.
3060
02:11:59,567 --> 02:12:00,730
Okay, settle down.
3061
02:12:02,620 --> 02:12:04,494
Yeah, well, I get it.
3062
02:12:04,495 --> 02:12:05,694
It was hard for you to get
3063
02:12:05,695 --> 02:12:07,770
him here, and I appreciate for us.
3064
02:12:09,580 --> 02:12:12,702
What really annoys me are the people that think you
3065
02:12:12,703 --> 02:12:14,514
guys just came up with the story to make a
3066
02:12:14,515 --> 02:12:16,952
bunch of money or get a bunch of attention.
3067
02:12:16,953 --> 02:12:17,938
That's a good point.
3068
02:12:17,939 --> 02:12:18,946
Please explain that.
3069
02:12:18,947 --> 02:12:21,798
First of all, I don't get any money out of this at all.
3070
02:12:21,799 --> 02:12:24,364
And I didn't even let you guys buy plane
3071
02:12:24,365 --> 02:12:26,486
tickets for me to come out here or anything.
3072
02:12:26,487 --> 02:12:28,396
I mean, anytime.
3073
02:12:28,397 --> 02:12:34,640
When Jeremy previewed, I guess the movie up in Michigan,
3074
02:12:35,300 --> 02:12:38,138
it brought in, like, a couple of made sure that
3075
02:12:38,139 --> 02:12:42,128
$2,000 went to science programs at the local high schools.
3076
02:12:42,129 --> 02:12:43,450
There dirty money.
3077
02:12:43,451 --> 02:12:44,458
I don't want to touch it.
3078
02:12:44,459 --> 02:12:46,026
I don't take any money from this stuff.
3079
02:12:46,027 --> 02:12:51,076
And as far as attention, I hate fucking attention.
3080
02:12:51,077 --> 02:12:53,054
I don't like being on shows.
3081
02:12:53,055 --> 02:12:55,438
I just want to kind of hide in the corner and do my
3082
02:12:55,439 --> 02:12:58,494
own thing so that I got enough hugs when I was a kid.
3083
02:12:58,495 --> 02:12:58,910
Okay?
3084
02:12:58,911 --> 02:13:00,664
I don't need any attention.
3085
02:13:00,665 --> 02:13:01,870
So, no.
3086
02:13:02,880 --> 02:13:05,682
If you think somehow we came up with this thing,
3087
02:13:05,683 --> 02:13:08,066
then you got to tell me why we did it.
3088
02:13:08,067 --> 02:13:10,802
Well, you've done a great job of making sure
3089
02:13:10,803 --> 02:13:12,674
you have your bases covered in that regard, that
3090
02:13:12,675 --> 02:13:14,374
you haven't profited off of this, and like you
3091
02:13:14,375 --> 02:13:16,342
said, that you have donated whatever money that came
3092
02:13:16,343 --> 02:13:18,640
your way to science programs.
3093
02:13:19,380 --> 02:13:23,090
It doesn't make any sense any other way.
3094
02:13:24,260 --> 02:13:27,498
What I've gotten out of here is what I thought I was
3095
02:13:27,499 --> 02:13:29,312
going to get out of here when I watched the documentary.
3096
02:13:29,313 --> 02:13:31,802
That what you're saying makes sense.
3097
02:13:31,803 --> 02:13:34,202
It doesn't make sense that it's bullshit that
3098
02:13:34,203 --> 02:13:36,074
happened exactly like I said it did.
3099
02:13:36,075 --> 02:13:37,770
Joe, I believe you.
3100
02:13:38,620 --> 02:13:41,450
In closing, is there anything else you'd like to say?
3101
02:13:42,940 --> 02:13:44,846
No, I can't think of anything other than
3102
02:13:44,847 --> 02:13:47,370
really don't come and try to visit me.
3103
02:13:48,940 --> 02:13:52,914
Well, I know that you have paid a huge personal
3104
02:13:52,915 --> 02:13:56,146
cost to get this information out, and, I mean, maybe
3105
02:13:56,147 --> 02:13:58,258
you didn't understand what that cost would have been when
3106
02:13:58,259 --> 02:14:01,602
you first initially came forward with the story, but over
3107
02:14:01,603 --> 02:14:04,610
the past 30 years, it's been immense. It's been great.
3108
02:14:04,611 --> 02:14:06,598
And I just want to thank you for that
3109
02:14:06,599 --> 02:14:08,678
and thank you for all these people that would
3110
02:14:08,679 --> 02:14:11,030
not have gotten this information and would not have
3111
02:14:11,031 --> 02:14:14,572
really had this story any other way. Oh, thanks, Joe.
3112
02:14:14,573 --> 02:14:15,430
Thank you.
3113
02:14:15,431 --> 02:14:16,576
And thank you, Jeremy.
3114
02:14:16,577 --> 02:14:17,968
And one more time, the documentary
3115
02:14:17,969 --> 02:14:19,754
is available on Netflix right now.
3116
02:14:19,755 --> 02:14:21,616
Yeah, it's called Bob lazar.
3117
02:14:21,617 --> 02:14:23,696
Area 51 and flying saucers.
3118
02:14:23,697 --> 02:14:26,150
All right, that's it, folks. Good night.
3119
02:14:30,280 --> 02:14:31,322
Yeah, you did.
3120
02:14:31,323 --> 02:14:44,330
It's our channel.
237434
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