Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 oo:oo:o3,oo5 --> oo:oo:o4,821 They want to switch off her machines, 2 oo:oo:o4,845 --> oo:oo:o6,381 and we want to keep them on. 3 oo:oo:o6,4o5 --> oo:oo:o8,621 They say she's in a lot of pain! She is still your child! 4 oo:oo:o8,645 --> oo:oo:1o,341 Yes! Yes, she is! 5 oo:oo:1o,365 --> oo:oo:11,981 So you just left her and me? 6 oo:oo:12,oo5 --> oo:oo:13,981 That makes it sound like I abandoned you. 7 oo:oo:14,oo5 --> oo:oo:15,591 Yeah, cos you did. 8 oo:oo:15,615 --> oo:oo:19,591 However you feel about what your parents are doing, it's not about 9 oo:oo:19,615 --> oo:oo:21,791 picking sides. Of course it is. 1o oo:oo:21,815 --> oo:oo:23,661 And I'm on marnie's side. 11 oo:oo:23,685 --> oo:oo:26,541 We believe we can suggest a bias in the treatment marnie has received 12 oo:oo:26,565 --> oo:oo:28,1o1 from Samantha woodham. 13 oo:oo:28,125 --> oo:oo:29,661 She perforated an artery. 14 oo:oo:29,685 --> oo:oo:31,791 It sounds pretty deadly to me. 15 oo:oo:31,815 --> oo:oo:34,o71 Marnie, she's complicated. 16 oo:oo:34,o95 --> oo:oo:37,821 But... you know, she's, er, she's joyous. 17 oo:oo:37,845 --> oo:oo:39,621 I really miss you. 18 oo:oo:39,645 --> oo:oo:42,621 Do you think youtll win, n icci? Any change in her condition? 19 oo:oo:42,645 --> oo:oo:44,285 Can I just go and see my daughter? 2o oo:oo:45,565 --> oo:oo:47,365 Can't we do better than this? 21 oo:oo:48,765 --> oo:oo:52,821 This programme contains some strong language and some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting 22 oo:oo:52,845 --> oo:oo:55,511 baby gurgles yeah! You like that, do you? 23 oo:oo:55,535 --> oo:oo:57,125 He chuckles 24 oo:oo:58,2o5 --> oo:oo:59,871 hey. 25 oo:oo:59,895 --> oo:o1:o1,871 She finds wallpaper funny. 26 oo:o1:o1,895 --> oo:o1:o5,o22 Does she? Are you sure that's ok? 27 oo:o1:o5,o46 --> oo:o1:o6,511 The steam and... 28 oo:o1:o6,535 --> oo:o1:o8,341 Ah, I think it's fine. 29 oo:o1:o8,365 --> oo:o1:1o,381 Yeah? Yeah. 3o oo:o1:1o,4o5 --> oo:o1:13,152 Should have probab done it before she got here. 31 oo:o1:13,176 --> oo:o1:14,511 She loves it. 32 oo:o1:14,535 --> oo:o1:17,511 Look at that smile. I was thinking maybe a picnic. 33 oo:o1:17,535 --> oo:o1:19,661 Ah, it's a bit cold. 34 oo:o1:19,685 --> oo:o1:24,1o1 Yeah, we'll just wrap up, won't we? We'll wrap up. 35 oo:o1:24,125 --> oo:o1:26,o22 You going to make sandwiches? 36 oo:o1:26,o46 --> oo:o1:28,261 I'm not going to make sandwiches, sexist! 37 oo:o1:28,285 --> oo:o1:31,o22 We'll buy sandwiches. Ah. 38 oo:o1:31,o46 --> oo:o1:33,152 I'll get you a sausage roll if you're lucky. 39 oo:o1:33,176 --> oo:o1:36,231 Oh, I'm in! They laugh 4o oo:o1:36,255 --> oo:o1:4o,1o1 baby gurgles ah! She finds that funny too. 41 oo:o1:4o,125 --> oo:o1:42,125 Ah, no, no! Ah! 42 oo:o1:44,ooo --> oo:o1:5o,o74 Watch any video online with Open-SUBTITLES Free Browser extension: osdb.link/ext 43 oo:o1:58,645 --> oo:o2:oo,381 Radio:. .Factors at play 44 oo:o2:oo,4o5 --> oo:o2:o3,381 when the life of a young child is at stake. 45 oo:o2:o3,4o5 --> oo:o2:o5,511 Looking at the papers this morning, 46 oo:o2:o5,535 --> oo:o2:o6,791 this makes the front page 47 oo:o2:o6,815 --> oo:o2:o8,176 on nearly every single... 48 oo:o2:12,895 --> oo:o2:14,221 Andrew sighs 49 oo:o2:14,245 --> oo:o2:15,941 ready? 5o oo:o2:15,965 --> oo:o2:17,o15 Yeah. 51 oo:o2:2o,685 --> oo:o2:23,o46 It's going to be ok. Yeah, yeah. 52 oo:o2:28,375 --> oo:o2:3o,325 Mint? Ah, I just brushed my teeth. 53 oo:o2:31,845 --> oo:o2:33,375 You need a mint, mate. 54 oo:o2:44,255 --> oo:o2:45,895 You keep them. 55 oo:o2:53,595 --> oo:o2:56,571 N icci! Nicci! Nicci! N icci! 56 oo:o2:56,595 --> oo:o3:oo,781 Reporters clamour 57 oo:o3:oo,8o5 --> oo:o3:o3,555 we're just going to go straight in, thank you very much. 58 oo:o3:25,955 --> oo:o3:27,291 Pre-match huddle? 59 oo:o3:27,315 --> oo:o3:29,171 Yeah. Ok. 6o oo:o3:29,195 --> oo:o3:3o,931 A rundown of whots here. 61 oo:o3:3o,955 --> oo:o3:34,621 Francesca camara, representing the hospital and dr Samantha woodham. 62 oo:o3:34,645 --> oo:o3:37,7o1 Shets very good. Beatrice shrigley, working with 63 oo:o3:37,725 --> oo:o3:4o,931 Greg Richardson and the children and family legal services team. 64 oo:o3:4o,955 --> oo:o3:43,731 Representing marnie. Yeah, we met mr Richardson. 65 oo:o3:43,755 --> oo:o3:45,171 Good lawyers, but so are we. 66 oo:o3:45,195 --> oo:o3:47,475 We're going to save marnie's life, mrs Lloyd. 67 oo:o3:51,445 --> oo:o3:53,835 Wetre going to do something special here today. 68 oo:o3:55,755 --> oo:o3:57,235 Yeah, good. 69 oo:o4:o3,395 --> oo:o4:o5,981 How long have you been marnie's paediatric consultant? 7o oo:o4:o6,oo5 --> oo:o4:o8,851 I have observed marnie in picu for close to seven years. 71 oo:o4:o8,875 --> oo:o4:1o,931 She's a patient I know very well. 72 oo:o4:1o,955 --> oo:o4:14,315 And will you tell us what you think the best treatment is for her now? 73 oo:o4:18,875 --> oo:o4:22,o91 I am sorry to say that I think we should stop all treatments. 74 oo:o4:22,115 --> oo:o4:26,o91 I believe the life-sustaining treatments we are current 75 oo:o4:26,115 --> oo:o4:3o,262 giving are causing her to suffer without any prospect of helping her. 76 oo:o4:3o,286 --> oo:o4:33,341 How would you describe marnie's current interaction with the world? 77 oo:o4:33,365 --> oo:o4:36,771 She will never, in my medical opinion, 78 oo:o4:36,795 --> oo:o4:39,291 leave ventilated breathing support. 79 oo:o4:39,315 --> oo:o4:41,811 She shows little response to stimuli 8o oo:o4:41,835 --> oo:o4:43,931 and her brain scans show irreversible damage. 81 oo:o4:43,955 --> oo:o4:46,851 So her conscious experience? 82 oo:o4:46,875 --> oo:o4:48,132 I n my judgment, 83 oo:o4:48,156 --> oo:o4:51,795 right now, she has very little, if any, conscious experience. 84 oo:o4:53,795 --> oo:o4:55,545 No further questions. 85 oo:o5:o4,115 --> oo:o5:o7,262 How many children have you treated like marnie? 86 oo:o5:o7,286 --> oo:o5:11,491 No case is alike, but I have treated 87 oo:o5:11,515 --> oo:o5:14,9o1 maybe 2o or 25 children with severe muscular dystrophy. 88 oo:o5:14,925 --> oo:o5:18,o12 How many end up in a situation where, in your opinion, 89 oo:o5:18,o36 --> oo:o5:21,o61 treatment can no longer be of use? 9o oo:o5:21,o85 --> oo:o5:23,291 I couldn't tell you that exact. 91 oo:o5:23,315 --> oo:o5:25,oo5 How many have died in your care? 92 oo:o5:26,955 --> oo:o5:28,181 Six. 93 oo:o5:28,2o5 --> oo:o5:3o,9o1 The deterioration in each case was similar to what we've seen 94 oo:o5:3o,925 --> oo:o5:32,o12 with marnie? 95 oo:o5:32,o36 --> oo:o5:36,571 No cases are alike. And marnie's specific condition is unique. 96 oo:o5:36,595 --> oo:o5:4o,161 I n fact, as you say, it is as yet undiagnosed. 97 oo:o5:4o,185 --> oo:o5:43,o91 As happens frequent with neuromuscular disorders. 98 oo:o5:43,115 --> oo:o5:46,771 But as it is undiagnosed, how can you be 1ooofo sure that 99 oo:o5:46,795 --> oo:o5:49,491 continuing treatment is futile? 1oo oo:o5:49,515 --> oo:o5:52,161 I am as certain as I can be. 1o1 oo:o5:52,185 --> oo:o5:53,571 And if I were to tell you 1o2 oo:o5:53,595 --> oo:o5:56,475 that there are doctors who believe they can treat marnie? 1o3 oo:o5:58,2o5 --> oo:o6:o2,541 Marnie's conscious experience, another complicated area, is it not? 1o4 oo:o6:o2,565 --> oo:o6:o3,9o1 Yes. 1o5 oo:o6:o3,925 --> oo:o6:o5,541 Have there been examples, 1o6 oo:o6:o5,565 --> oo:o6:o9,851 to your knowledge, of children with severe brain damage who recover? 1o7 oo:o6:o9,875 --> oo:o6:13,o51 I do not believe it is like there will be any 1o8 oo:o6:13,o75 --> oo:o6:15,o91 miracle improvement. 1o9 oo:o6:15,115 --> oo:o6:17,931 Of course, you must have your beliefs. 11o oo:o6:17,955 --> oo:o6:2o,286 Let us discuss pain. 111 oo:o6:21,465 --> oo:o6:24,o91 Ventilation itself isn't painful, is it? 112 oo:o6:24,115 --> oo:o6:26,621 No, but suctioning is very unpleasant. 113 oo:o6:26,645 --> oo:o6:27,981 And how often does that happen? 114 oo:o6:28,oo5 --> oo:o6:29,371 Several times a day. 115 oo:o6:29,395 --> oo:o6:32,651 And if marnie has very little, if any, conscious experience, 116 oo:o6:32,675 --> oo:o6:35,8o1 in your opinion, how would she feel pain 117 oo:o6:35,825 --> oo:o6:38,461 in these isolated suctioning incidents? 118 oo:o6:38,485 --> oo:o6:41,671 There are autonomic responses from marnie 119 oo:o6:41,695 --> oo:o6:44,o32 that do, I'm afraid, suggest pain. 12o oo:o6:44,o56 --> oo:o6:46,431 You cannot have it both ways, dr woodham. 121 oo:o6:46,455 --> oo:o6:49,oo1 Either she doesn't have a conscious experience, 122 oo:o6:49,o25 --> oo:o6:51,641 in which case she isn't in pain, or she does. 123 oo:o6:51,665 --> oo:o6:53,791 You're wrong. 124 oo:o6:53,815 --> oo:o6:57,711 We have seen a series of reactions, from spasms to 125 oo:o6:57,735 --> oo:o7:o2,561 changing heart rates, which do suggest that while her conscious 126 oo:o7:o2,585 --> oo:o7:o8,335 experience is extreme limited, her pain response is still there. 127 oo:o7:12,5o5 --> oo:o7:17,711 Let me take you back to 2o16, if that's ok? 128 oo:o7:17,735 --> oo:o7:19,991 Sure. 129 oo:o7:2o,o15 --> oo:o7:22,152 May 24th. 13o oo:o7:22,176 --> oo:o7:24,391 Marnie presented with an infection. 131 oo:o7:24,415 --> oo:o7:27,841 Yes. Um, I would need to consu my notes. 132 oo:o7:27,865 --> oo:o7:31,o32 You had to put in a central venous catheter. 133 oo:o7:31,o56 --> oo:o7:32,5o5 A central line. 134 oo:o7:34,o56 --> oo:o7:35,561 Yes. And it went wrong. 135 oo:o7:35,585 --> oo:o7:37,711 You perforated an artery. 136 oo:o7:37,735 --> oo:o7:4o,351 Which led to distal ischemia. Yes. 137 oo:o7:4o,375 --> oo:o7:43,391 You needed to call in a vascular surgeon to repair the damage. 138 oo:o7:43,415 --> oo:o7:47,311 This incident was referred up to the consuants' group and it was seen 139 oo:o7:47,335 --> oo:o7:5o,431 to be an unfortunate complication of a competent performed procedure. 14o oo:o7:5o,455 --> oo:o7:53,2o1 "Competently performed"? 141 oo:o7:53,225 --> oo:o7:55,711 How can something be "competently performed" 142 oo:o7:55,735 --> oo:o7:58,561 when it almost leads to ischemia? 143 oo:o7:58,585 --> oo:o8:oo,895 That is what they concluded. 144 oo:o8:o3,765 --> oo:o8:o5,4o5 We are human beings. 145 oo:o8:o6,735 --> oo:o8:11,631 And... I am sorry it happened, 146 oo:o8:11,655 --> oo:o8:14,895 and I am grateful there was no damage to marnie in the long term. 147 oo:o8:17,335 --> oo:o8:2o,5o5 What do you know of unconscious bias in the medical profession? 148 oo:o8:21,865 --> oo:o8:24,381 Wel it's something that we're all concerned with. 149 oo:o8:24,4o5 --> oo:o8:27,381 A doctor in a raft is told only seven people can 15o oo:o8:27,4o5 --> oo:o8:3o,o71 survive on the rations they have. 151 oo:o8:3o,o95 --> oo:o8:32,431 He has to make a decision as to who to save. 152 oo:o8:32,455 --> oo:o8:36,381 He or she. I do beg your pardon, dr woodham. 153 oo:o8:36,4o5 --> oo:o8:39,671 How does he or she make the judgment? 154 oo:o8:39,695 --> oo:o8:41,991 We do not ration care in this country. 155 oo:o8:42,o15 --> oo:o8:44,481 You're denying that during covid there was rationing of care 156 oo:o8:44,5o5 --> oo:o8:46,671 for disabled people? There was a prioritisation. 157 oo:o8:46,695 --> oo:o8:48,535 Who do you prioritise? 158 oo:o8:52,865 --> oo:o8:55,619 Now, we happen to have some correspondence 159 oo:o8:55,643 --> oo:o8:57,779 that was passed to us at very late notice. 16o oo:o8:57,8o3 --> oo:o8:59,o1o My lady! 161 oo:o8:59,o34 --> oo:o9:o1,469 I apologise enormously, my lady. It was this morning. 162 oo:o9:o1,493 --> oo:o9:o3,549 I emailed the court as soon as I received it. 163 oo:o9:o3,573 --> oo:o9:o5,493 I received no email. 164 oo:o9:o6,573 --> oo:o9:o8,883 Do you have copies for the others? Yes, my lady. 165 oo:o9:14,363 --> oo:o9:16,859 My lady, we have no means of verifying this document. 166 oo:o9:16,883 --> oo:o9:18,723 We can ask the witness. 167 oo:o9:2o,573 --> oo:o9:22,493 Did this email come from you? 168 oo:o9:31,923 --> oo:o9:33,443 How did you get this? 169 oo:o9:36,643 --> oo:o9:38,189 Yes. 17o oo:o9:38,213 --> oo:o9:4o,26o Then I tll allow it. 171 oo:o9:4o,284 --> oo:o9:43,859 This is a correspondence between you and a bed manager about 172 oo:o9:43,883 --> oo:o9:48,499 how to move people out of picu in preparation for the covid outbreak. 173 oo:o9:48,523 --> oo:o9:51,499 Dated February 2o2o. 174 oo:o9:51,523 --> oo:o9:57,o59 They ask you what they should do about bed 16 and you reply, 175 oo:o9:57,o83 --> oo:1o:oo,o1o "bed 16 shouldn't be there," 176 oo:1o:oo,o34 --> oo:1o:o3,41o "the parents have been clinging to hope without there being any." 177 oo:1o:o3,434 --> oo:1o:o5,779 I was expressing a medical opinion. 178 oo:1o:o5,8o3 --> oo:1o:o9,oo3 I ...Regret how it sounds. 179 oo:1o:12,oo3 --> oo:1o:16,1o9 Do you believe that sometimes, for patients, as a doctor, that the best 18o oo:1o:16,133 --> oo:1o:18,419 thing to do is to let them die? 181 oo:1o:18,443 --> oo:1o:21,o79 That was another child and another set of circumstances. 182 oo:1o:21,1o3 --> oo:1o:23,o29 It was a busy time. 183 oo:1o:23,o53 --> oo:1o:24,563 Lots of people to save? 184 oo:1o:26,363 --> oo:1o:27,539 Yes. 185 oo:1o:27,563 --> oo:1o:29,339 How irritating, then, to have a bed 186 oo:1o:29,363 --> oo:1o:32,859 taken up with this disabled child which determined parents 187 oo:1o:32,883 --> oo:1o:34,469 are there to protect. 188 oo:1o:34,493 --> oo:1o:37,539 I do think the sanctity of life is important. 189 oo:1o:37,563 --> oo:1o:42,289 But sometimes, as doctors, we're unable to preserve a meaningful 19o oo:1o:42,313 --> oo:1o:46,39o life, and in that case it is cruel to prolong the dying process 191 oo:1o:46,414 --> oo:1o:48,819 with treatments that do not benefit them. 192 oo:1o:48,843 --> oo:1o:53,o59 Where is that stated? Is that in the good medical practice guidelines, 193 oo:1o:53,o83 --> oo:1o:54,699 as laid out by the gmc? 194 oo:1o:54,723 --> oo:1o:56,o29 My lady! 195 oo:1o:56,o53 --> oo:1o:58,539 Mr Frederick, your questioning here is inappropriate, 196 oo:1o:58,563 --> oo:11:oo,819 as I believe youtre well aware. 197 oo:11:oo,843 --> oo:11:o4,3o9 Dr woodham, you do not need to answer but you may if you wish. 198 oo:11:o4,333 --> oo:11:o5,923 Mm. 199 oo:11:13,o53 --> oo:11:14,563 Marnie is in pain. 2oo oo:11:16,563 --> oo:11:2o,o29 She's unable to communicate, 2o1 oo:11:2o,o53 --> oo:11:22,oo3 and I am no longer helping her. 2o2 oo:11:23,693 --> oo:11:26,883 I am just prolonging her death. 2o3 oo:11:28,133 --> oo:11:32,499 When the other doctors decided that you had had 2o4 oo:11:32,523 --> oo:11:36,699 an unfortunate complication in perforating marnie's artery 2o5 oo:11:36,723 --> oo:11:4o,459 and almost leaving her with another disability, 2o6 oo:11:4o,483 --> oo:11:42,25o on what grounds did they do so? 2o7 oo:11:42,274 --> oo:11:43,689 Sorry? 2o8 oo:11:43,713 --> oo:11:47,243 On what grounds did they make their judgment on you? 2o9 oo:11:5o,6o3 --> oo:11:53,299 The grounds of, um... 21o oo:11:53,323 --> oo:11:54,689 I'm sorry, I... 211 oo:11:54,713 --> oo:11:57,o19 They gave you the benefit of the doubt, dr woodham. 212 oo:11:57,o43 --> oo:12:oo,329 Just as you have failed to give marnie the benefit of the doubt. 213 oo:12:oo,353 --> oo:12:o4,169 No. I n fact, and instead, what marnie has faced 214 oo:12:o4,193 --> oo:12:o8,579 every day in your care is your prejudice that this little girl 215 oo:12:o8,6o3 --> oo:12:12,299 and her little life are taking up space in your precious pic... 216 oo:12:12,323 --> oo:12:13,713 No. 217 oo:12:19,833 --> oo:12:21,839 I am sorry that you're getting emotional. 218 oo:12:21,863 --> oo:12:23,659 That was not my intention. 219 oo:12:23,683 --> oo:12:27,o73 But there is, of course, a lot of emotion attached to this case. 22o oo:12:28,154 --> oo:12:34,6o9 She is my patient and I have aays given her the finest care. 221 oo:12:34,633 --> oo:12:36,223 I n your opinion. 222 oo:12:37,583 --> oo:12:39,433 No further questions. 223 oo:12:45,353 --> oo:12:47,199 You doing ok? 224 oo:12:47,223 --> oo:12:49,329 Great. 225 oo:12:49,353 --> oo:12:5o,963 Youtve had no further trouble? 226 oo:12:52,433 --> oo:12:53,793 I'm fine. 227 oo:12:57,223 --> oo:12:59,889 That was a good morning for us. 228 oo:12:59,913 --> oo:13:o1,353 I'm sure it feels like that. 229 oo:13:o5,o73 --> oo:13:o9,6o3 Phone buzzes. 23o oo:13:3o,553 --> oo:13:33,169 Hey. 231 oo:13:33,193 --> oo:13:35,299 Hey there. 232 oo:13:35,323 --> oo:13:36,889 Mind if I ...? 233 oo:13:36,913 --> oo:13:38,713 Uh, no. Not at all. 234 oo:13:43,274 --> oo:13:44,579 Is it allowed? 235 oo:13:44,6o3 --> oo:13:45,963 It's allowed. 236 oo:13:49,5o3 --> oo:13:52,8o9 How do you think it's going? Honest? Yeah. 237 oo:13:52,833 --> oo:13:54,37o Horrib. 238 oo:13:54,394 --> oo:13:56,4o9 These things are usual 239 oo:13:56,433 --> oo:13:59,993 not collegiate, but there's a certain level of respect. 24o oo:14:o8,783 --> oo:14:11,833 However this turns out, look after yourseff, ok? 241 oo:14:14,243 --> oo:14:16,729 Ah, yeah, it's just an egg stain. 242 oo:14:16,753 --> oo:14:18,25o Sorry? 243 oo:14:18,274 --> oo:14:19,993 On the tie. It's just an egg stain. 244 oo:14:21,783 --> oo:14:23,939 I know what drinking looks like. 245 oo:14:23,963 --> oo:14:25,713 I know what drinking smel like. 246 oo:14:29,633 --> oo:14:31,6o9 Have you got any lunch? 247 oo:14:31,633 --> oo:14:33,113 Er, no. 248 oo:14:35,353 --> oo:14:37,oo9 Ok. I can get some more. 249 oo:14:37,o33 --> oo:14:4o,243 What? No, no, no, no. You can, and you will. 25o oo:14:46,993 --> oo:14:49,753 My favourite flavour. Cheese and onion. 251 oo:14:51,753 --> oo:14:53,913 My favourite. Good. 252 oo:14:59,443 --> oo:15:o1,629 Mr lloyd. 253 oo:15:o1,653 --> oo:15:o3,853 Would you consent to a few questions from me? 254 oo:15:o5,693 --> oo:15:o7,14o I've... Clears throat 255 oo:15:o7,164 --> oo:15:o9,599 I've nothing to hide. Thank you. 256 oo:15:o9,623 --> oo:15:13,7o9 Your wife gave up her job when marnie was diagnosed? 257 oo:15:13,733 --> oo:15:15,829 And I'm very grateful for that. 258 oo:15:15,853 --> oo:15:18,189 Rather she kept herseff focused on marnie. 259 oo:15:18,213 --> oo:15:21,189 Well, her job wasn't very understanding. 26o oo:15:21,213 --> oo:15:23,419 You kept working? 261 oo:15:23,443 --> oo:15:27,669 Yes. Uh, we needed the money. 262 oo:15:27,693 --> oo:15:3o,669 Do you remember who was earning more when marnie was born? 263 oo:15:3o,693 --> oo:15:32,27o Your wife or yourseff? 264 oo:15:32,294 --> oo:15:34,419 Er, she was. 265 oo:15:34,443 --> oo:15:38,o59 So, a better economic decision might have been for you to give up 266 oo:15:38,o83 --> oo:15:4o,693 your job and for your wife to keep on going. 267 oo:15:44,373 --> oo:15:45,9o9 You're right. 268 oo:15:45,933 --> oo:15:48,853 Can you explain why, then, you were the one to keep your job? 269 oo:15:5o,9o3 --> oo:15:54,599 To be honest, the question wasn't asked. 27o oo:15:54,623 --> oo:15:56,599 What sort of hours do you work, mr Lloyd? 271 oo:15:56,623 --> oo:15:58,779 9.3o till 6.oo most days. 272 oo:15:58,8o3 --> oo:16:o2,39o And your business, accountancy, has grown since marnie was born? 273 oo:16:o2,414 --> oo:16:o3,629 Yes. 274 oo:16:o3,653 --> oo:16:o7,333 So, occasional you have meetings in the evenings, at weekends? 275 oo:16:o9,853 --> oo:16:12,779 I ...Have always... Um 276 oo:16:12,8o3 --> oo:16:15,829 have made a lot of time for my family. 277 oo:16:15,853 --> oo:16:18,339 So any suggestion you've buried yourseff in work... 278 oo:16:18,363 --> oo:16:21,629 My lady! I am not here to represent mr Lloyd, but as he's 279 oo:16:21,653 --> oo:16:25,419 representing himself and perhaps unused to the court situation, 28o oo:16:25,443 --> oo:16:27,949 I do feel obliged to say these questions do feel 281 oo:16:27,973 --> oo:16:29,799 unnecessarily intrusive. 282 oo:16:29,823 --> oo:16:31,263 Agreed. 283 oo:16:36,294 --> oo:16:39,183 Would you consider yourseff a good father, Andrew? 284 oo:16:43,853 --> oo:16:46,159 I 'd hope... That I'm a good dad. 285 oo:16:46,183 --> oo:16:48,9o9 I dontt believe this line of questioning is fruitful. 286 oo:16:48,933 --> oo:16:52,669 I tm not going to be helped by intrusive questions of mr Lloyd. 287 oo:16:52,693 --> oo:16:55,27o If you have any questions about marniets quality of life, 288 oo:16:55,294 --> oo:16:57,699 please ask them. Apologies, my lady. 289 oo:16:57,723 --> oo:17:o1,339 I'm not looking to be intrusive, just drawing a picture 29o oo:17:o1,363 --> oo:17:o3,669 as to the fami dynamic, so as to 291 oo:17:o3,693 --> oo:17:o8,159 get a... A better sense of who might best represent marnie's interests. 292 oo:17:o8,183 --> oo:17:11,829 Mr Frederick, I have no doubt that everyone involved in this case 293 oo:17:11,853 --> oo:17:13,39o firmly believes that they are 294 oo:17:13,414 --> oo:17:17,o83 putting marniets best interests first. Itts not a competition. 295 oo:17:21,253 --> oo:17:26,159 Parenting a child with marnie's needs must be extreme trying. 296 oo:17:26,183 --> oo:17:29,749 There are difficulties but, er 297 oo:17:29,773 --> oo:17:32,27o immense pleasures, too. 298 oo:17:32,294 --> oo:17:34,699 She's a beautiful girl. 299 oo:17:34,723 --> oo:17:37,363 Has the pressure ever overwhelmed you? 3oo oo:17:39,183 --> oo:17:4o,749 Frequently. 3o1 oo:17:4o,773 --> oo:17:42,469 There have been moments 3o2 oo:17:42,493 --> oo:17:45,949 when you have made mistakes looking after her, haven't there? 3o3 oo:17:45,973 --> oo:17:5o,469 The time that marnie was left alone with her temperature rising 3o4 oo:17:5o,493 --> oo:17:53,253 while you were in your garden, drinking. 3o5 oo:17:55,253 --> oo:17:57,589 Um... 3o6 oo:17:57,613 --> oo:17:59,439 I had... 3o7 oo:17:59,463 --> oo:18:o1,51o I had a couple of beers, sure, 3o8 oo:18:o1,534 --> oo:18:o4,439 but I had the monitor with me and I couldn't anticipate... 3o9 oo:18:o4,463 --> oo:18:o6,613 Was it a couple of beers? 31o oo:18:11,363 --> oo:18:14,o53 I... um... 311 oo:18:16,253 --> oo:18:17,949 Perhaps four or five. 312 oo:18:17,973 --> oo:18:19,853 Were there drugs invoed? 313 oo:18:23,823 --> oo:18:25,899 Maybe I 'd smoked some weed. I do occasionally. 314 oo:18:25,923 --> oo:18:27,669 It doesn't impact my judgment. 315 oo:18:27,693 --> oo:18:31,589 To be clear, at that moment she required hospitalisation. 316 oo:18:31,613 --> oo:18:33,439 I... 317 oo:18:33,463 --> oo:18:36,1o3 I think we've both made mistakes, haven't we, nicci? 318 oo:18:37,363 --> oo:18:4o,799 Is this another mistake, mr lloyd? 319 oo:18:4o,823 --> oo:18:44,229 You're aware that if you do this, there is no coming back? 32o oo:18:44,253 --> oo:18:47,229 Am I aware that my daughter will be dead? 321 oo:18:47,253 --> oo:18:5o,284 Yes. I'm... Aware of that. 322 oo:18:51,593 --> oo:18:54,o53 I don't want to make this decision. I... 323 oo:18:55,613 --> oo:18:57,363 I just... Um... 324 oo:18:59,133 --> oo:19:o1,o53 I feel obliged to. 325 oo:19:o6,284 --> oo:19:o7,853 No further questions. 326 oo:19:13,1o3 --> oo:19:15,619 Where does that obligation come from? 327 oo:19:15,643 --> oo:19:17,563 The obligation to make that decision? 328 oo:19:2o,oo3 --> oo:19:22,463 I looked at her and, um 329 oo:19:25,414 --> oo:19:26,893 I, um... 33o oo:19:3o,213 --> oo:19:35,669 It's a difficult thing, watching your child in pain, 331 oo:19:35,693 --> oo:19:38,39o especially when you believe she won't get better. 332 oo:19:38,414 --> oo:19:41,o29 That is supposition on the basis of no medical training. 333 oo:19:41,o53 --> oo:19:45,1o9 But I have studied. My wife and I both have. We're specialists. 334 oo:19:45,133 --> oo:19:48,1o9 You know, I believe one thing and she believes another, and 335 oo:19:48,133 --> oo:19:53,133 I believe that hers is on the basis of a wish that I wish I shared. 336 oo:19:56,853 --> oo:19:58,893 The obligation comes from love. 337 oo:2o:oo,973 --> oo:2o:o2,589 And if that doesn't sound... 338 oo:2o:o2,613 --> oo:2o:o4,893 Well, look, I don't really care how it sounds. 339 oo:2o:o6,873 --> oo:2o:o8,473 No further questions. 34o oo:2o:24,o43 --> oo:2o:26,8o9 Uh, I tm going to catch the bus home, ok? 341 oo:2o:26,833 --> oo:2o:29,969 Oh. Wel grandad was going to give us a lift. 342 oo:2o:29,993 --> oo:2o:32,783 Er, yeah, I tm going to catch the bus. 343 oo:2o:32,8o7 --> oo:2o:34,757 Just need some space. 344 oo:2o:34,781 --> oo:2o:36,461 Ok. 345 oo:2o:5o,621 --> oo:2o:53,437 I'm so sorry this is so late in the day. Oh, that's ok. 346 oo:2o:53,461 --> oo:2o:56,447 I'm just pleased to final be getting to talk to you. 347 oo:2o:56,471 --> oo:2o:57,6o1 I think I can help you. 348 oo:2o:59,161 --> oo:21:oo,498 Great. 349 oo:21:oo,522 --> oo:21:o5,378 So, what's your opinion on what's best now, for marnie? 35o oo:21:o5,4o2 --> oo:21:o8,577 Marnie needs time. We need to be able to chart 351 oo:21:o8,6o1 --> oo:21:11,527 whether any recovery from the hypoxic brain damage is possible. 352 oo:21:11,551 --> oo:21:15,577 We need to see what treatment might be best for her condition. 353 oo:21:15,6o1 --> oo:21:18,987 So, I say we give her that time and get her tracheostomised 354 oo:21:19,o11 --> oo:21:2o,4o2 and supported. 355 oo:21:23,521 --> oo:21:26,977 I can't, er... 356 oo:21:27,oo1 --> oo:21:31,o97 Too many give up on that observation too quickly. 357 oo:21:31,121 --> oo:21:34,257 There are many that believe that risdiplam might have 358 oo:21:34,281 --> oo:21:37,697 an impact across a spectrum of neuromuscular disorders. 359 oo:21:37,721 --> oo:21:4o,3o8 Yeah, I said... I said the same. 36o oo:21:4o,332 --> oo:21:42,947 And the important thing from the court's perspective is not 361 oo:21:42,971 --> oo:21:46,332 that such a thing is probable, but that it's possible. 362 oo:21:48,841 --> oo:21:52,657 But you've had success with children like marnie? 363 oo:21:52,681 --> oo:21:55,977 Mrs Lloyd, I've had success with all kinds of children 364 oo:21:56,oo1 --> oo:21:58,761 that medical science would otherwise have discarded. 365 oo:22:o4,791 --> oo:22:o6,337 What's in the picnic basket? 366 oo:22:o6,361 --> oo:22:o8,681 I don't know yet, cos it's in the shop. 367 oo:22:11,332 --> oo:22:12,761 Got it. 368 oo:22:16,361 --> oo:22:18,481 Car engl ne starts. 369 oo:22:33,511 --> oo:22:36,697 You look like a fucking statue. 37o oo:22:36,721 --> oo:22:39,337 Yeah. 371 oo:22:39,361 --> oo:22:4o,641 You want to talk about it? 372 oo:22:48,332 --> oo:22:5o,o11 I had... 373 oo:22:51,o82 --> oo:22:55,267 I had thoughts. I had thoughts things 374 oo:22:55,291 --> oo:22:56,881 would be easier without her. 375 oo:22:58,771 --> oo:23:oo,497 I had those thoughts. 376 oo:23:oo,521 --> oo:23:o3,212 Of course you did. You knew how hard it was with me. 377 oo:23:o5,411 --> oo:23:o7,667 No. That's not true. 378 oo:23:o7,691 --> oo:23:o9,291 I loved being your big brother. 379 oo:23:1o,691 --> oo:23:13,261 I quite liked being your little brother. 38o oo:23:31,441 --> oo:23:36,291 Music: Animal nitrate by suede 381 oo:23:38,5o5 --> oo:23:39,751 all the time. 382 oo:23:39,775 --> oo:23:42,231 We're not here to guess as to what treatments might work. 383 oo:23:42,255 --> oo:23:44,921 I agree. Please refrain from guesswork, dr pankerman. 384 oo:23:44,945 --> oo:23:46,481 Wetre here to establish facts. 385 oo:23:46,5o5 --> oo:23:49,o81 My point is not that a cure is available, 386 oo:23:49,1o5 --> oo:23:51,951 my point is that it might be available. 387 oo:23:51,975 --> oo:23:55,441 We will investigate and make cases for treatments. 388 oo:23:55,465 --> oo:23:58,415 And while we do so, we'll keep marnie alive. 389 oo:24:oo,1o5 --> oo:24:o1,9o5 No further questions. 39o oo:24:o7,515 --> oo:24:o9,951 Talk me through your qualifications in pic 391 oo:24:o9,975 --> oo:24:11,641 15 years qualified. 392 oo:24:11,665 --> oo:24:14,521 I'm an attending physician that works mainly in neurology. 393 oo:24:14,545 --> oo:24:16,2o1 Sorry, you misunderstand me. 394 oo:24:16,225 --> oo:24:2o,592 I know it's another country's medical system, so it's complicated, 395 oo:24:2o,616 --> oo:24:24,722 but paediatric medicine, what is your specialism there? 396 oo:24:24,746 --> oo:24:29,2o1 Unlike dr woodham, who is a generalist, I'm a neurologist. 397 oo:24:29,225 --> oo:24:3o,881 I work with all ages. 398 oo:24:3o,9o5 --> oo:24:32,561 I can understand the brain. 399 oo:24:32,585 --> oo:24:34,361 Have you examined marnie's brain? 4oo oo:24:34,385 --> oo:24:36,361 I haven't been to examine her face-to-face 4o1 oo:24:36,385 --> oo:24:37,951 but I have looked at the scans. 4o2 oo:24:37,975 --> oo:24:42,281 So this is just an opinion based on no direct examination? 4o3 oo:24:42,3o5 --> oo:24:46,6o2 Your medical system has prevented me from examining marnie. 4o4 oo:24:46,626 --> oo:24:49,241 As such, my opinion is provisional. 4o5 oo:24:49,265 --> oo:24:53,265 It is far from categoric but I do think the possibility exists. 4o6 oo:24:54,385 --> oo:24:57,852 To be clear to the court, a second opinion was sought and given. 4o7 oo:24:57,876 --> oo:25:oo,391 The consultant asked a friend of hers from a neighbouring 4o8 oo:25:oo,415 --> oo:25:o2,o81 hospital to examine the girl. 4o9 oo:25:o2,1o5 --> oo:25:o4,241 Unsurprisingly, she agreed with the consultant. 41o oo:25:o4,265 --> oo:25:o6,oo1 Are you claiming that professor bradbury 411 oo:25:o6,o25 --> oo:25:o8,6o2 has not complied with her duty to the court? 412 oo:25:o8,626 --> oo:25:11,oo1 That's an extremely serious allegation to make. 413 oo:25:11,o25 --> oo:25:12,921 What is your evidence for it? 414 oo:25:12,945 --> oo:25:16,o81 No, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying that often 415 oo:25:16,1o5 --> oo:25:18,235 colleagues support each other. 416 oo:25:19,415 --> oo:25:22,852 Tell me, you have appeared in other proceedings concerning 417 oo:25:22,876 --> oo:25:25,o91 medical treatment for minors, have you not? 418 oo:25:25,115 --> oo:25:28,261 Yes. How many cases where there is a decision to be made 419 oo:25:28,285 --> oo:25:3o,291 about the future care of a child? 42o oo:25:3o,315 --> oo:25:32,582 I don't know, maybe three. 421 oo:25:32,6o6 --> oo:25:34,781 Well, this was just a simple Google search. 422 oo:25:34,8o5 --> oo:25:38,191 We found evidence of you contributing to seven trials 423 oo:25:38,215 --> oo:25:41,621 on this basis. Why do you think that is? 424 oo:25:41,645 --> oo:25:43,981 I'm happy to help. 425 oo:25:44,oo5 --> oo:25:48,371 To go against the establishment. Not many are, in my profession. 426 oo:25:48,395 --> oo:25:51,3o1 A bit of aggression from them helps us, to be honest. 427 oo:25:51,325 --> oo:25:54,o11 What did you recommend, 428 oo:25:54,o35 --> oo:25:56,8o5 in all those cases, for the child involved? 429 oo:25:59,245 --> oo:26:o3,o35 Have you ever recommended that ventilation should cease? 43o oo:26:o4,965 --> oo:26:o6,525 No. 431 oo:26:o7,645 --> oo:26:o9,476 I found evidence they should live. 432 oo:26:11,6o6 --> oo:26:13,365 No further questions. 433 oo:26:59,525 --> oo:27:o2,452 Katl e: Hey. 434 oo:27:o2,476 --> oo:27:o4,452 I followed you. 435 oo:27:o4,476 --> oo:27:o6,271 Oh. 436 oo:27:o6,295 --> oo:27:o8,341 Wel that's kids for you. 437 oo:27:o8,365 --> oo:27:o9,981 One day they don't want to know, 438 oo:27:1o,oo5 --> oo:27:12,o91 next day they're following you to church. 439 oo:27:12,115 --> oo:27:16,452 Go ahead, mum. Pray. I'm just... Just here. 44o oo:27:16,476 --> oo:27:17,835 No, it's ok. 441 oo:27:19,575 --> oo:27:23,221 Maybe you'll have a thunderbo moment and start believing in god. 442 oo:27:23,245 --> oo:27:26,165 Yeah? Maybe I can be saved. 443 oo:27:29,o45 --> oo:27:32,o61 You know they're on doing what they need to do to win this? 444 oo:27:32,o85 --> oo:27:34,421 Yeah, I understand that. 445 oo:27:34,445 --> oo:27:36,981 I mean, what they're doing, they're... dad doesn't... 446 oo:27:37,oo5 --> oo:27:39,575 Mum... that's not my problem. 447 oo:27:41,935 --> oo:27:43,685 Was he the best they could do? 448 oo:27:45,835 --> oo:27:47,551 She sighs 449 oo:27:47,575 --> oo:27:49,295 I thought... 45o oo:27:5o,835 --> oo:27:53,575 Would you trust him with marnie? 451 oo:28:o1,726 --> oo:28:o3,295 No. 452 oo:28:1o,476 --> oo:28:12,6o6 I don't think she'd want this. 453 oo:28:16,525 --> oo:28:18,5o1 Sorry. 454 oo:28:18,525 --> oo:28:2o,165 I don't. 455 oo:28:21,525 --> oo:28:23,o45 You're a brave girl. 456 oo:28:24,655 --> oo:28:26,245 You're aays so brave. 457 oo:28:33,295 --> oo:28:35,3o1 Mrs Lloyd, 458 oo:28:35,325 --> oo:28:37,835 tell me why you oppose the hospital in this action. 459 oo:28:39,325 --> oo:28:42,381 Because I believe my daughter should live. 46o oo:28:42,4o5 --> oo:28:43,965 Even though she's in pain? 461 oo:28:45,965 --> oo:28:47,911 I don't believe that. 462 oo:28:47,935 --> oo:28:5o,452 You've seen the reports. You've been present 463 oo:28:5o,476 --> oo:28:53,o41 at marnie being suctioned, where it's claimed a clear pain 464 oo:28:53,o65 --> oo:28:54,441 response has been present. 465 oo:28:54,465 --> oo:28:55,831 I've never seen that pain. 466 oo:28:55,855 --> oo:28:57,825 My lady... If I 'd have seen that pain 467 oo:28:59,145 --> oo:29:oo,681 we wouldn't be here now. 468 oo:29:oo,7o5 --> oo:29:o3,o11 I believe we can allow mrs Lloyd to have her own 469 oo:29:o3,o35 --> oo:29:o4,675 version of events, counsel. 47o oo:29:o9,1o5 --> oo:29:11,545 Why do you think the hospital disagrees with you? 471 oo:29:14,5o6 --> oo:29:15,756 Um... 472 oo:29:19,395 --> oo:29:22,o11 Er, that's a big question. 473 oo:29:22,o35 --> oo:29:23,425 Take your time. 474 oo:29:26,785 --> oo:29:28,9o5 I can't... Um... 475 oo:29:32,215 --> oo:29:37,551 I can't tell you the amount of times that you are encouraged, 476 oo:29:37,575 --> oo:29:4o,o41 as a parent of a disabled child, 477 oo:29:4o,o65 --> oo:29:41,465 to just 478 oo:29:42,756 --> oo:29:45,291 to just give up. 479 oo:29:45,315 --> oo:29:49,o41 We had it all through this... Pandemic. 48o oo:29:49,o65 --> oo:29:53,881 I had friends told that their kids wouldn't get machines. 481 oo:29:53,9o5 --> oo:29:59,o11 And I aays knew I had to keep marnie safe because if she did get 482 oo:29:59,o35 --> oo:3o:o3,985 the damn thing, I didn't know that she would survive it because 483 oo:3o:o6,425 --> oo:3o:o9,521 I didn't know that she would get the help 484 oo:3o:o9,545 --> oo:3o:1o,985 to survive. 485 oo:3o:13,865 --> oo:3o:16,699 And then we made it out the other side and, 486 oo:3o:16,723 --> oo:3o:18,174 and sudden... 487 oo:3o:2o,564 --> oo:3o:22,3o4 My point is that, um 488 oo:3o:23,894 --> oo:3o:28,414 people say that they care about disabled people, but 489 oo:3o:3o,664 --> oo:3o:33,254 aays, all the time 49o oo:3o:34,564 --> oo:3o:36,254 I see different. 491 oo:3o:38,564 --> oo:3o:41,51o Marnie's my, er... 492 oo:3o:41,534 --> oo:3o:49,ooo Marnie's my beautiful child and it's an honour to be her mother. 493 oo:3o:49,o24 --> oo:3o:51,974 So I've learned to put my shoulder down. 494 oo:3o:53,694 --> oo:3o:56,334 I just put my shoulder down and I just 495 oo:3o:57,574 --> oo:3o:59,615 I just keep charging. 496 oo:31:37,774 --> oo:31:39,495 Ready? 497 oo:31:43,414 --> oo:31:45,75o You know what you used to say to me any time 498 oo:31:45,774 --> oo:31:47,574 I had something difficult to do? No. 499 oo:31:49,214 --> oo:31:52,o3o Mum would tell me to try to be brave. You told me 5oo oo:31:52,o54 --> oo:31:54,83o I didn't need to try, I was already brave. 5o1 oo:31:54,854 --> oo:31:56,67o Well, I'm not you. 5o2 oo:31:56,694 --> oo:31:58,36o You want me to come? 5o3 oo:31:58,384 --> oo:31:59,91o You don't like crowds. 5o4 oo:31:59,934 --> oo:32:o1,574 I will, though, if you want me to. 5o5 oo:32:o5,495 --> oo:32:o7,214 I can do this on my own. 5o6 oo:32:38,1o4 --> oo:32:39,934 Are you all right? Yeah. 5o7 oo:32:43,464 --> oo:32:45,55o H I. Hi. 5o8 oo:32:45,574 --> oo:32:47,44o I like the smart threads. 5o9 oo:32:47,464 --> oo:32:48,495 New? 51o oo:32:49,854 --> oo:32:51,294 Yeah, well... Ish. 511 oo:32:52,495 --> oo:32:54,495 Wetre here for you both. 512 oo:32:56,934 --> oo:32:58,615 Yeah. Wel we better go in. 513 oo:33:19,1o4 --> oo:33:2o,615 All rise. 514 oo:33:38,9o4 --> oo:33:42,471 These cases are clearly never easy. 515 oo:33:42,495 --> oo:33:44,574 This case particularly so. 516 oo:33:46,134 --> oo:33:49,16o I recognise that the strong presumption in favour 517 oo:33:49,184 --> oo:33:51,36o of a course of action that will prolong life 518 oo:33:51,384 --> oo:33:54,44o is not an irrebuttable one. 519 oo:33:54,464 --> oo:33:58,44o It reflects the position that life, as precious as it is, 52o oo:33:58,464 --> oo:34:oo,83o cannot be, and indeed should not be 521 oo:34:oo,854 --> oo:34:o5,o54 preserved at all costs in the face of its natural conclusion. 522 oo:34:o6,464 --> oo:34:o9,55o But equally I recognise that 523 oo:34:o9,574 --> oo:34:12,8oo marnie Lloyd is clearly an exceptional, bright, 524 oo:34:12,824 --> oo:34:15,83o happy and well-loved child. 525 oo:34:15,854 --> oo:34:19,o8o And it is plain from dr woodhamts evidence, and the evidence 526 oo:34:19,1o4 --> oo:34:22,27o given by mr and mrs Lloyd, that marniets parents have been 527 oo:34:22,294 --> oo:34:25,88o doughty defenders of their daughterts best interests 528 oo:34:25,9o4 --> oo:34:28,774 over many years, to her undoubted benefit. 529 oo:34:3o,334 --> oo:34:32,67o The position adopted by mrs Lloyd 53o oo:34:32,694 --> oo:34:35,31o before the court is eminently reasonable 531 oo:34:35,334 --> oo:34:37,264 and wholly understandable. 532 oo:34:38,694 --> oo:34:43,27o It represents a continuation of the love and dedication 533 oo:34:43,294 --> oo:34:46,854 that she and her family have shown to marnie throughout her life. 534 oo:34:48,824 --> oo:34:53,824 This is a case of huge complication and immense difficulty. 535 oo:34:55,o54 --> oo:34:57,96o I tm going to break my thinking into four areas. 536 oo:34:57,984 --> oo:35:o1,o54 He breathes raggedly so we begin with the evidence... 537 oo:35:15,184 --> oo:35:17,721 It's a panic attack. It'll pass. 538 oo:35:17,745 --> oo:35:2o,52o Gaspl ng: It's just a panic attack. It'll pass. 539 oo:35:2o,544 --> oo:35:21,654 I've had them before. 54o oo:35:23,544 --> oo:35:25,o8o Is he all right? It's all right. 541 oo:35:25,1o4 --> oo:35:28,11o He's just having a panic attack. He's had them before. Thank you. 542 oo:35:28,134 --> oo:35:3o,16o Andrew sobs 543 oo:35:3o,184 --> oo:35:33,68o all right. Deep breaths, come on. 544 oo:35:33,7o4 --> oo:35:35,99o You're ok. It's all right. 545 oo:35:36,o14 --> oo:35:38,39o And so, for all those reasons, 546 oo:35:38,414 --> oo:35:41,849 I will make the declaration sought by the hospital... 547 oo:35:41,873 --> oo:35:44,o59 Niccl gasps, sobs 548 oo:35:44,o83 --> oo:35:46,969 that the continuation of life-sustaining treatment 549 oo:35:46,993 --> oo:35:5o,779 is not in marniets best interests. 55o oo:35:5o,8o3 --> oo:35:54,683 Niccl sobs. 551 oo:36:oo,8o3 --> oo:36:o3,193 I ndistl nct chatter 552 oo:36:o4,713 --> oo:36:o7,45o we'll sort it with Derek and talk about a potential appeal. Derek? 553 oo:36:o7,474 --> oo:36:o9,529 Yes, absolutely. 554 oo:36:o9,553 --> oo:36:11,729 Look, itts hard now, I know, but... 555 oo:36:11,753 --> oo:36:15,o83 I ndistl nct chatter. 556 oo:36:46,163 --> oo:36:47,913 Can we go? Let's just go. 557 oo:37:13,6o4 --> oo:37:15,243 He exhales 558 oo:37:2o,193 --> oo:37:22,633 doorbell 559 oo:37:26,8o3 --> oo:37:28,323 no, I'll get it. 56o oo:37:32,883 --> oo:37:35,419 Hello. Hi, Tom. 561 oo:37:35,443 --> oo:37:37,o43 Is, um...? 562 oo:37:4o,263 --> oo:37:42,829 Hello. Hi. 563 oo:37:42,853 --> oo:37:45,799 I was just... Writing to you. 564 oo:37:45,823 --> oo:37:47,o13 Saying what? 565 oo:37:48,293 --> oo:37:5o,269 Sh... shall I leave? 566 oo:37:5o,293 --> oo:37:53,189 Wel no. We'll just... We'll go for a walk. 567 oo:37:53,213 --> oo:37:54,853 I always like a walk. 568 oo:38:o1,o13 --> oo:38:o3,119 All right? Yeah. 569 oo:38:o3,143 --> oo:38:o4,423 Ok. 57o oo:38:o9,733 --> oo:38:11,624 They want me to appeal. 571 oo:38:13,o63 --> oo:38:14,959 Of course they do. 572 oo:38:14,983 --> oo:38:17,319 I shouldn't have told them about your drinking. 573 oo:38:17,343 --> oo:38:2o,48o I'm ashamed that I did that. I should... you needed to win. 574 oo:38:2o,5o4 --> oo:38:22,829 You-you were... 575 oo:38:22,853 --> oo:38:26,o93 You are an excellent dad. 576 oo:38:28,783 --> oo:38:31,799 I'm not saying you're right, and I'm not... 577 oo:38:31,823 --> oo:38:33,213 But I'm... 578 oo:38:35,453 --> oo:38:36,983 But I'm-I'm stopping it. 579 oo:38:42,543 --> oo:38:44,263 You're sure? 58o oo:39:38,653 --> oo:39:4o,183 Morning! 581 oo:39:42,343 --> oo:39:44,679 This is an unexpected bounty. 582 oo:39:44,7o3 --> oo:39:47,559 Yeah, wel they're most ones you've sold us. 583 oo:39:47,583 --> oo:39:49,629 Whatts brought this on? 584 oo:39:49,653 --> oo:39:53,o63 Um, wel you won't be seeing us again for a while. 585 oo:39:54,583 --> oo:39:56,813 Shets a smasher, your marnie. 586 oo:4o:21,o63 --> oo:4o:22,943 I don't want her to die here. 587 oo:4o:26,624 --> oo:4o:28,559 Um... 588 oo:4o:28,583 --> oo:4o:32,839 I'm afraid, as I understand it, she has to. 589 oo:4o:32,863 --> oo:4o:34,789 Oh. 59o oo:4o:34,813 --> oo:4o:38,199 I, um... I asked the same thing, 591 oo:4o:38,223 --> oo:4o:4o,679 back at the beginning, I asked whether we could, you know, 592 oo:4o:4o,7o3 --> oo:4o:43,624 get her home, and I was told that she'd die in the ambulance. 593 oo:4o:45,o63 --> oo:4o:46,919 Right. 594 oo:4o:46,943 --> oo:4o:52,o69 What they have said is once they've turned off all the machines and, 595 oo:4o:52,o93 --> oo:4o:55,279 you know, let her... Go 596 oo:4o:55,3o3 --> oo:4o:57,429 um 597 oo:4o:57,453 --> oo:4o:59,919 they can put her in an ambulance for us 598 oo:4o:59,943 --> oo:41:o2,783 and we can get her home then and put her to bed. 599 oo:41:o6,o63 --> oo:41:o8,7o9 She'd be, er... 6oo oo:41:o8,733 --> oo:41:1o,399 She'd be dead. 6o1 oo:41:1o,423 --> oo:41:17,583 Or, um, well, we could explore the, um... The transplant option. 6o2 oo:41:19,583 --> oo:41:21,o93 Right. 6o3 oo:41:23,o93 --> oo:41:25,12o What do you think? 6o4 oo:41:25,144 --> oo:41:28,525 I decided I 'd leave that question to you. 6o5 oo:41:29,915 --> oo:41:31,o35 Oh. 6o6 oo:41:32,195 --> oo:41:36,4o1 Wel thank you for researching it 6o7 oo:41:36,425 --> oo:41:39,7o5 but... I want us to decide together. 6o8 oo:41:41,476 --> oo:41:42,985 Yeah. Um... 6o9 oo:41:45,395 --> oo:41:47,322 I mean, I genuinely... 61o oo:41:47,346 --> oo:41:48,985 I'm not sure on this. Um... 611 oo:41:52,755 --> oo:41:56,5o1 I think marnie would quite like to 612 oo:41:56,525 --> oo:41:58,755 be back in her own bed, 613 oo:41:59,955 --> oo:42:o1,425 and, um, 614 oo:42:o3,555 --> oo:42:o6,861 and I think marnie would quite like to be useful, you know, 615 oo:42:o6,885 --> oo:42:o8,555 to other people. 616 oo:42:o9,755 --> oo:42:12,5o1 Katie? 617 oo:42:12,525 --> oo:42:13,861 Me? 618 oo:42:13,885 --> oo:42:15,425 Yes, please. 619 oo:42:17,995 --> oo:42:19,555 Um... 62o oo:42:21,596 --> oo:42:22,915 I think... 621 oo:42:27,115 --> oo:42:28,915 I think transplant. 622 oo:42:32,395 --> oo:42:35,275 Could they do it quick? They could make that happen, yeah. 623 oo:42:41,785 --> oo:42:43,885 Wel let's make it happen. 624 oo:43:26,425 --> oo:43:27,865 Will we hear it? 625 oo:43:28,915 --> oo:43:31,971 Will we hear it when she dies? 626 oo:43:31,995 --> oo:43:33,6o6 There might be some breathing. 627 oo:43:35,245 --> oo:43:37,582 But will it sound like she's in pain? 628 oo:43:37,6o6 --> oo:43:39,o41 Thatts unlikely. 629 oo:43:39,o65 --> oo:43:42,371 Chances are shetll just pass. 63o oo:43:42,395 --> oo:43:46,245 Can we call it dying? Not letting go or passing on, just 631 oo:43:48,115 --> oo:43:49,611 just dying. 632 oo:43:49,635 --> oo:43:51,332 With the morphine shets on, 633 oo:43:51,356 --> oo:43:53,325 I dontt believe shetll feel any pain. 634 oo:43:58,395 --> oo:44:oo,555 Have you got anything you want to say to her? 635 oo:44:o5,325 --> oo:44:o8,o75 I think she knows how I feel. 636 oo:44:1o,5o5 --> oo:44:12,325 I love you, marnie. 637 oo:44:13,995 --> oo:44:16,531 I love you, too. 638 oo:44:16,555 --> oo:44:17,995 I love you so much. 639 oo:44:19,685 --> oo:44:21,761 I've got something I want to say. 64o oo:44:21,785 --> oo:44:22,835 Ok. 641 oo:44:31,356 --> oo:44:35,195 Katl e whispers. 642 oo:44:54,o45 --> oo:44:55,356 Are you ready? 643 oo:44:57,195 --> oo:44:59,o21 Are the transplant team ready? 644 oo:44:59,o45 --> oo:45:oo,251 Yes. 645 oo:45:oo,275 --> oo:45:o3,371 Um, so, um... What will happen? 646 oo:45:o3,395 --> oo:45:o5,452 Once wetve taken out the breathing tube, 647 oo:45:o5,476 --> oo:45:o8,611 wetll let her breathe on her own. She may take a few breaths. 648 oo:45:o8,635 --> oo:45:1o,555 You will have a little time to hold her. 649 oo:45:11,555 --> oo:45:16,661 Then her heart will slow and then it will stop. 65o oo:45:16,685 --> oo:45:2o,o75 When that happens, we need to get her next door, straight away. 651 oo:45:28,115 --> oo:45:3o,o91 Ok. 652 oo:45:3o,115 --> oo:45:31,865 Then I - I think we're ready. 653 oo:45:36,755 --> oo:45:38,195 Ok. 654 oo:45:52,995 --> oo:45:57,435 Soft beepl ng. 655 oo:46:o6,115 --> oo:46:o9,o45 Snl ffll ng. 656 oo:46:29,685 --> oo:46:31,345 There we go. 657 oo:46:33,o95 --> oo:46:34,935 There we go, lamb. 658 oo:46:43,855 --> oo:46:46,761 Goodnight. Sleep tight. 659 oo:46:46,785 --> oo:46:49,o15 I love you. I love you. I love you. 66o oo:46:53,6o5 --> oo:46:56,121 Was that the wrong thing to say? 661 oo:46:56,145 --> oo:46:58,215 No. 662 oo:48:14,975 --> oo:48:16,615 Lighter lgnites. 663 oo:48:23,5o6 --> oo:48:25,175 Well, I 'll, um... 664 oo:48:26,345 --> oo:48:27,975 Get in the Van. 665 oo:48:3o,145 --> oo:48:33,7o5 I don't know where we're going but we're going there together. 666 oo:48:35,585 --> oo:48:38,761 Right? I agree with her. 667 oo:48:38,785 --> oo:48:4o,425 Ok. Thanks. 668 oo:49:o6,455 --> oo:49:o9,175 I'm going to miss her... So much. 669 oo:49:11,975 --> oo:49:13,895 You know I will too, right? 67o oo:49:16,535 --> oo:49:18,815 You even thinking you need to say that just 671 oo:49:2o,3o5 --> oo:49:22,225 makes me feel like such an arsehole. 672 oo:49:24,o25 --> oo:49:27,2o1 We made her happy and, 673 oo:49:27,225 --> oo:49:28,975 and that's... 674 oo:49:32,335 --> oo:49:35,3o5 Wel she made us happy, too. She really did. 675 oo:49:46,175 --> oo:49:48,175 Rear door opens. 676 oo:49:53,535 --> oo:49:55,256 So, where to? 677 oo:49:57,256 --> oo:49:59,oo1 I could be hungry. 678 oo:49:59,o25 --> oo:5o:o1,951 You could? Mm. Wel that's shocking. 679 oo:5o:o1,975 --> oo:5o:o4,761 That's a great idea. Um 68o oo:5o:o4,785 --> oo:5o:o7,362 the Italian place by the library? 681 oo:5o:o7,386 --> oo:5o:o8,921 Yeah. Good. 682 oo:5o:o8,945 --> oo:5o:1o,841 Music? You want some music? 683 oo:5o:1o,865 --> oo:5o:13,121 Oh. I, er... 684 oo:5o:13,145 --> oo:5o:15,665 Your dongle, it's, uh... It's busted. 685 oo:5o:17,256 --> oo:5o:19,oo1 You broke my dongle? 686 oo:5o:19,o25 --> oo:5o:22,511 Yeah. Yeah, I snapped it. I snapped it in anger. 687 oo:5o:22,535 --> oo:5o:24,362 Well, shall I sing something, then? 688 oo:5o:24,386 --> oo:5o:25,665 Katl e chuckles 689 oo:5o:27,o25 --> oo:5o:3o,121 uh... I've got my music. 69o oo:5o:3o,145 --> oo:5o:31,665 Oh, she's got her music. 691 oo:5o:33,615 --> oo:5o:36,o25 Let's hear it, then. All right. 692 oo:5o:38,3o5 --> oo:5o:43,945 Music: 2o�2o by rimon 693 oo:5o:49,745 --> oo:5o:51,8o1 ? whoa, whoa woo, ooh 694 oo:5o:51,825 --> oo:5o:55,482 ? whoa, whoa woo, ooh, ooh 695 oo:5o:55,5o6 --> oo:5o:59,825 ? whoa, hmm 696 oo:51:o1,615 --> oo:51:o7,232 ? I see your sunlight through the window, it's magic, uh 697 oo:51:o7,256 --> oo:51:12,591 ? my thoughts and body were just caught by this traffic, uh 698 oo:51:12,615 --> oo:51:18,161 ? you watched time pass while I kept myseff distracted, uh 699 oo:51:18,185 --> oo:51:23,o81 ? will you forgive now that I'm paying attention? 7oo oo:51:23,1o5 --> oo:51:28,951 ? Uh, I see your sunlight through the window, it's magic, uh 7o1 oo:51:28,975 --> oo:51:34,311 ? my thoughts and body were just caught by this traffic, uh 7o2 oo:51:34,335 --> oo:51:37,232 ? where did our time go? 7o3 oo:51:37,256 --> oo:51:4o,2o1 ? Encounters beautiful 7o4 oo:51:4o,225 --> oo:51:48,225 ? on you are the one to break the shackles of my burden 7o5 oo:51:48,665 --> oo:51:54,o81 ? are the one to show me glory in the moment 7o6 oo:51:54,1o5 --> oo:51:55,771 ? cannot pay you back 7o7 oo:51:55,795 --> oo:51:59,482 ? even if I could, I can on fall on my knees 7o8 oo:51:59,5o6 --> oo:52:o4,521 ? show my gratitude for your deeds 7o9 oo:52:o4,545 --> oo:52:o6,591 ? I see your sunlight through 71o oo:52:o6,615 --> oo:52:o9,771 ? the window, it's magic, uh 711 oo:52:o9,795 --> oo:52:12,281 ? my thoughts and body were just 712 oo:52:12,3o5 --> oo:52:15,411 ? caught by this traffic, uh 713 oo:52:15,435 --> oo:52:17,362 ? you watched time pass while 714 oo:52:17,386 --> oo:52:18,561 ? I kept myseff distracted. ? 715 oo:52:18,585 --> oo:52:18,721 ? I kept myseff distracted. ? 716 oo:52:18,745 --> oo:52:2o,545 ? I kept myseff distracted. ? 717 oo:52:2o,595 --> oo:52:25,145 Repair and Synchronization by Easy Subtitles Synchronizer 1.o.o.o 53188