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You know what can other brands learn from this particular case study, you know in the you know we stand for this
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People like us do stuff like this. So let's talk about the anything a logo and a brand
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Alright because companies spend way too much time on their logo. Just like people on YouTube spend way too much time on their hair
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I'm told they spend way too much time in there
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If Nike owned opened a hotel I think we would be able to guess pretty accurately what it would be like
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If Hyatt came out with sneakers
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We'd have no clue
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Because Hyatt doesn't have a brand they have a logo
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if I swap the signs on a hotel at that price point
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It couldn't tell if you were to marry it if you were a Hilton or the Hyatt the hallway the room
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I don't know. Where am I no brand
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So what it means to have a brand is?
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You've made a promise to people they have expectations. It's a shorthand
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What should I expect the next time and if that is distinct?
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You've earned something
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If it's not distinct, let's admit you make a commodity and you're trying to charge just a little bit extra for peace of mind
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The problem that Hyatt and Hilton and Mary it and the rest have his sort by price
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Because if I go online now to find a hotel, it's really simple sort by price
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Why would I pay $200 extra to go a block away? I don't
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So what's the value of a brand the value of a brand is how much extra am I paying?
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It's that time again, it feels like every year we
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Had a little you're like Santa Claus but with wisdom and insight
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Once a year you show up from like Jimmy and we have a conversation. I was looking forward to this
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I'm not gonna ask you how you got this job this time because after
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Half a dozen times, I think I know the story, but I do want to know
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About this book. I want to know I mean, I've always thought of you as the godfather of
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Marketing, you know if if Peter Drucker is you know
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old-school
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Not outdated but just like, you know, he came before he's the previous generation. I always think of Seth as the new generation
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kiss the ring and so
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Help me understand this seems to me to be like the quintessential book on marketing
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well, what's your take the thing is I don't do any consulting because I don't have the patience for it and
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What I love to do is find people I care about who are doing work that I'm proud of it gives them free advice
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How can they achieve their goals?
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Bringing their work to people who need it and what happened was after the 50th time
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I heard myself saying the same things again
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And again, I started this seminar the marketing seminar which lives online and it's not inexpensive, but it's really effective
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it's a hundred a
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seminar with
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So far six thousand six hundred people have taken it and what happens inside it is I was watching people interact
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With my lessons, but fifty lessons together and seeing how they interpreted them and watching them change and watching their work get better
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So it occurred to me, I don't know why I took so long. Oh, I know how to make books. Maybe I'll turn this
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Into a book for people who don't necessarily want to commit the time
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To being part of a seminar and one thing led to another and the book became the book that it is now
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which is yes my version of
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If advertising had never existed if David Ogilvy had never existed if the old model which was so magical
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Wasn't available because I don't think it is if I could teach marketing to someone what would I teach them?
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So there's nothing it I think the word Twitter might appear once in the whole book is not about social media
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It is not about growth rating points or even conversion
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it's about work that matters for people who care so break it down for me kind of what's
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What's the path?
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You know
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What is the method to the madness of laying out the chapters in the order that you did or?
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Does the order or not matter?
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So the order we you have to begin by undoing the marketing of marketing you have to undo
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This idea that marketing is selfish. That marketing is a scam that marketing is this short-term interruption thing
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So I spend a bunch of time on that. I wish I didn't have to but I do
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Because I'm saying to you you're a marketer and it's not an insult. It's a compliment because what marketers do is we make change happen
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Okay, which change for who?
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so the first third of the book is what marketers do is we decide who we are seeking to change who's it for and
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What's it for and I'm amazed at how often people don't even consider this they think they're making average stuff for average people
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And if they just yell at about it enough then their Kickstarter will hit 19 million dollars
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Well, yeah every once in a while I Kickstarter needs to do that
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But almost none of them do that the truly successful ones or the truly successful
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Online stores are local bakeries or the person is trying to raise money for their charity are specific
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They're not general. So the first part and then I get to this idea that culture
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Defeats everything if you've got culture at your back what you're doing is easy and you're trying to change the culture
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It's difficult. So what is culture culture is people like us do things like this? How do we break that into pieces?
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Who are the people like us? What are the things like this?
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Then I do
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A turn into something that some people think is distracting but is in fact at the core of some of the big ideas here
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which are
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Human beings make decisions based on status
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Not the status of I have a fancier car than you that's part of it
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But the status of who eats lunch first and the status of who's moving up and who is not moving up
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and what does that even mean to us that informs culture and
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then I talk about
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Affiliation versus dominance because I see that more and more everywhere. I look
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Ok, so now that we've laid that out now we can get into some of the tactics the tactics of are you a brand marketer?
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or a direct marketer because they're fundamentally different things and most people were brand marketers before the internet, but the internet
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Rings a bell and says if you're a direct marketer, this is here for you
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and then I can we round hole circle and I end with a bit of a
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Rant about is the work. We do evil. Are we responsible for it?
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and if we are responsible for it, what are we doing here with this super powerful tool and
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This tool we each have is more powerful than the assembly line was in 1925
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Partly because we all have it if you have a keyboard
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You can touch the culture. What will you do with that keyboard what we do with that camera
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Because we're not victims
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We're creators and I care very much about
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Helping people take responsibility for the change they seek to make and if it makes you a living, that's fine
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It doesn't make you a living that's a choice, but don't do it because you're making a living making a living because you're doing it
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Yeah, well said, can we go back just a second and maybe?
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delineate or clarify
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Brand marketing versus direct marketing. I think I know what you're saying to me. If I were to say it, I would say
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brand marketing or advertising
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Because to me one is a push
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Button, and the other one is a pull lever
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You know brand marketing being a pull or it's pulling people in drawing them in with a tint, you know
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trying to build attention and Trust while advertising is more about
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Getting a return on the investment and getting someone to jump through a hoop, but maybe in your own words
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Yeah, I I've that's legit, but I'd do it differently
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Yeah, because there are direct marketing ads and their brand ads. It's not the advertising that differentiates them. It's one simple thing you
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Can't measure a brand
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You can measure direct you must measure direct right Lester Wunderman who was a friend of mine is a friend of mine
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The elder statesman invented the term direct marketing was on the board of Yoyodyne
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Direct Marketing is measured marketing
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If you can measure it, you're gonna act differently because you can see what happened Tuesday and change what you do on Wednesday
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Brand marketing is a Cheetos commercial brand marketing is the Airbnb logo
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They don't you can't test their Airbnb logo every day. It's the logo
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That's part of the way you tell the story of who you are. So
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a
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Lot of individuals who don't own the company
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Like brand marketing cos can't get in trouble for a long time because no one knows if it's working and it's this magic
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Alchemy the Absolut Vodka ads in the back of the New Yorker for all those years. They didn't work. They didn't work
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They didn't work
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They didn't work and then one day you're a genius right so know very few people make an Apple Superbowl commercial that changes everything
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Generally what happens is people show up
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Put their brand in the world with or without an ad right Brad marketing is where did you put your store?
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Is it on the corner or in the middle of the block?
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You can't measure that because you can't open two stores one on the corner and one in the middle
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Direct Marketing though is the secret of Google and Facebook
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Google gets all of its revenue 100%
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from people who are buying clicks that they measure and
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the reason they make so much money is they sell the clicks for a nickle and
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If work they tell your competitors that they could buy it for six cents and so an auction takes place
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So you are making a little bit of money and Google's making a lot
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But you're still ok with it because it's better than making zero
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so as we switch to this world of Direct Marketing we have to realize
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The metrics of brand marketing aren't appropriate and vice versa
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What does that mean?
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It means if you're an individual and you're counting your facebook likes or your YouTube views you're making a big mistake
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Because you're doing direct marketing in that sense you're measuring it, but you're measuring the wrong thing
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and
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That's gonna undermine your brand because we all know
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That the best way to get a lot of clicks is to act like a porn site and left to its own devices
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If it does nothing, but optimize sooner or later direct marketing on the internet
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Races to the bottom because you're just trying to get a few clicks from a few people dumb enough to pay you something
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And my argument is we need to race to the top. So we need to use Direct Marketing when we should and
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Brand marketing the rest of the time. Yeah. I think it's a really good point, you know when?
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Back-to-school timing hits and I hear those ads
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Start pinging. Hey, you know you can get jeans that are usually 40 bucks for five bucks just for this week of time
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I'm being hit with direct marketing and that's ringing my bell the trouble with direct marketing or advertising like that is
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you know, it's can be expensive and sometimes it misses the mark and
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We're being trained to ignore it. Oh, yeah
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Yeah, I mean Lillian Vernon l.l.bean the reason you've heard of them Lands End because every time they spent 50 cents on stamps
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They made a dollar 50 in profit
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So they get it to infinity and that's the direct marketers dream get it right turn the dial
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But when we think about the marketing that makes our culture better
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It might have a little direct marketing piece to it. But mostly it's a brand marketing exercise
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It also kind of reminds me of The Tortoise and the hare, right? Yeah
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Brand marketing is the tortoises race. The hares is direct marketing or advertising
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That's right, you know it can be quick and you know
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You could spend five million dollars on a Superbowl ad and read everyone in one day
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You know, but how long do we remember that or how's that resonating? What's the risk?
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exactly
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Can you weigh in on what seems to be the quintessential?
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Brand marketing play today as we talk about it the Nike play and Colin Kaepernick
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okay, so
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There are a few things that need to be understood about Nike
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Biggest one you are not a key. I am NOT Nike. Nike is a bit of a special case
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Number two the vast majority of Nikes future and its present is overseas sales
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So they're showing up and they're saying we're not Puma. We're not a ddos. We are Nike
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Well, you don't you can't say that by pointing to your sneakers because in a blind taste test the sneakers are all the same
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Right, unless you're an elite elite athlete. It's about something else
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Well, Colin Kaepernick is a signal he's a symbol he stands for something and the other sneaker companies have been
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Afraid to stand for what Colin Kaepernick stands for so is it risky?
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Feeling to go into a divisive area of politics that I don't think should be divisive but has become divisive
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Of course, it feels risky, but it was brilliant
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It was brilliant because at the level Nike is playing now the number of ways that they can stand for something anything
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Is very small and here with just two words
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They were able to say us him we stand for something when you talk about Nike you are standing
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You're talking about standing for something, right? And
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The stock market has reflected that their market share has reflected that it's not easy for a brand to do something that singular
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What's interesting is if Seagram's had done it where?
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Mattress firm had done it or some other advertise. It wouldn't worked because they didn't have the DNA
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To match it. It would have been stopped
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This wasn't a stunt that people who knew Nike said, of course, it was very natural for them to do that. Yeah, you're right
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They've they've been seeding the market from the beginning, you know from youth sports although an eye
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and and they've also been
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you know the disrupter if you want to use that buzzy word in their industry trying to do stuff differently and
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Shake-up. Yeah when you and I were kids sneakers cost eight dollars, right? So as a
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citizen I am thrilled that they've given this brave individual a platform to speak his mind as a
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marketer a brand marketer
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I look at that and say
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If this is what the people at Nike truly believe is this is where they are going and it's a non
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Cynical act on their part. I have to applaud it because the kind of person that
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is
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decrying this
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Psychographically
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Isn't their core audience. It's not what they look like. How old they are their income?
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it's what they believe and they tend to not be an early adopter of fashion that
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Person, well Nike is selling to the early adopter of fashion by the time their shoes are at Payless
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They're not making any money at that end of the curve
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They make money at the front of the curve and the front of the curve the early adopters
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There are people who are playing with new ideas in the culture
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They're not people who are trying to preserve old ideas in the culture
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Let's talk about what could could go wrong or could have gone wrong and maybe if we try this on another brand?
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You know what can other brands learn from this particular case study, you know in the you know, we stand for this
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People like us do stuff like this. So let's talk about the anything a logo and a brand
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Alright because companies spend way too much time on their logo. Just like people on YouTube spend way too much time on their hair
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I'm told they spend way too much time in there
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If Nike owned opened a hotel I think we would be able to guess pretty accurately what it would be like
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If Hyatt came out with sneakers
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We'd have no clue
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Because Hyatt doesn't have a brand they have a logo
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if I swap the signs on a hotel at that price point
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It couldn't tell if you were to marry it to Hilton or the Hyatt the hallway the room. I don't know
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Where am I no brand?
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So what it means to have a brand is?
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You've made a promise to people they have
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Expectations it's a shorthand. What should I expect the next time and if that is distinct?
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You've earned something
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If it's not distinct, let's admit you make a commodity and you're trying to charge just a little bit extra for peace of mind
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The problem that Hyatt and Hilton and Mary it and the rest have his sort by price
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Because if I go online now to find a hotel, it's really simple sort by price
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Why would I pay two hundred dollars extra to go a block away? I don't
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So what's the value of a brand the value of a brand is how much extra am I paying?
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above
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the substitute and if I'm not paying extra, you don't have a brand so when we think about
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What brands ought to do to move forward the most important thing is to not worry about your slogan your spokesperson
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They're wrapping. It's to worry about the substance
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work that matters for people who care find the people who care the smallest viable group you can live with
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And figure out how to give them work that matters
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So if we compare if we're stung the hotel thing there are hotels these new chains of mini boutique hotels
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That charge double
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What a Hayat might charge for less
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But it's only less by the Hyatt measure it's way more
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by the measure of someone who
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Cares about with the people in the lobby look like who cares about how hip it feels to walk into the bar
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They're investing not in. Oh you get a room with three power outlets. They're investing in throwing a party in a place
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Where you also can sleep while you're on the road?
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Those hotels have a brand and those hotels are some that some people pay extra for but almost no one in the scheme of things
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Yeah, can we talk a little bit about?
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Demographic versus psychographic. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, okay, so they're only used to be demographics
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The only thing a marketer could pay attention
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What kind of car do you drive? How old are you? What's your income? You could buy all of those things for mailing this company?
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But once the internet showed up particularly Google but mostly Facebook we could say
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This is for people who like that
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This is for people who dream of that. This is for people who believe this. Those are psychographics
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It doesn't matter what your skin color is. It doesn't matter what your income is. It's what's your narrative inside?
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So going forward the old-school marketer still talks about demographics
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They're wasting their time what we need to understand is in every zip code
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There are people of almost every psychographic perception
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And what we have to do is brand marketers to say it's for you and it's not for you
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I didn't separate you because of who your parents were
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I
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Separated you because of what you believe and what you dream of if you want to switch what you dream and what you believe of
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It might be for you. So I guy walk by the Supreme store. I see these people are idiots
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Good because it's not for me. It's for them. Perfect. I like that. I like that a lot. So
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You know search engines and social media websites are collecting data on us whether we know it or not whether we like it or not
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but if so if I'm a marketer and I've got and I'm trying to build a brand then how do I
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how do I find out who my audience is because I think sometimes
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We think it's one audience exactly. We might be completely missing the mark exactly. Okay, so let's start with the data collection thing
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Every time I go to Amazon
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they rearrange the whole store for me and
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Every time I go to a regular bookstore, I am frustrated because they don't
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It but like what is what are the cat books?
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I don't like cats every time you know, I'm coming just take all the cat books out of the store
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They don't do that for me Amazon does so when this is done properly
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People are happy it's being done because it's being done for them not to them when it's done improperly
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It's when you get a phone call from your credit card company and they say we noticed you've been going to
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A lot of singles bars and strip clubs. Here's a coupon for free venereal disease testing
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You don't want that phone call because you didn't ask for that engagement with them, right? So it's not about privacy
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It's about being surprised
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Okay. So now we go to serve some people
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I'll begin by saying I don't think you have any business being a marketer
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Unless you have empathy for the people you are seeking to serve
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So what do I mean by empathy? I mean
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You don't know what I know. You don't want what I want. You don't believe what I believe
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Here I made this it might be for you
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now the best way to begin as an amateur marketer is to
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Start with people who believe what you believe and want what you want great. Do you know who those people are?
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Can you imagine them start there?
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You will find some people in that segment because you made it for you, right?
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So if you love to surf and to be on social media than inventing the hero camera
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Probably a good idea because you knew what it's like to be one of those people
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but
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Sony should have invented to hear our camera and they didn't
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Because there wasn't a professional market around the scene who said I don't surf I don't want to be on social media
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but I could imagine what that would be like and
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So we begin with that we begin by asserting what a group
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Who believes a thing might want to do how do you do that?
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Well, you can learn a lot by noticing you can learn a lot by thing. Why is there a line at the supreme store?
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Why are people buying pokeballs right why are people doing this? Why are people doing that and those people? Who do that?
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They're also doing this which has nothing to do with that
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but they're all doing it is because they're all doing it or because there's something those things have in common a feeling and
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So what our job is as marketers is to suss out that feeling make an assertion and then present it to those people
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Not spend a lot of time in focus groups because people don't know what they want. They just know what they dream
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So is your recommendation then you know?
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Let's say I am
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The GM right and and I'm looking just to create this product. Would you recommend then?
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seeking out someone who has expertise in that area and bringing them on the team is like a
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Consultant or full-time hire or should we all just eat drink and breathe
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that subculture, you know for the next year and figure it out like
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You know when I was
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Building Yoyodyne. We were hiring a lot of people
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So we took out a full-page ad in The New York Times
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Which was super fun to do and 500 people showed up and we interviewed them in groups
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It was really cool
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And we sat around the table the groups of eight and the question I asked the group of eight is working together
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There was no Google that no smart phones working together
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Figure out how many gas stations there are in the United States?
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And what would happen around that table? Every time two people would say I'll take notes
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two people would say
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Whatever anyone else suggested no, that's wrong. We don't know the answer
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Two people would say not much of anything and then two people would lead this conversation
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It's really fascinating and you can guess who I hired
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But every once in a while
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Someone would say I don't know. I don't have a car
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And that was really frustrating to me. It wasn't a question of how many guest agents. Have you seen in your life?
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it was
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Figure out how to be wrong on the way to being right how to make this series of assertions about where to go. So
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When you think about the people who built I don't know dropbox dropbox
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was built to solve a personal need
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That's great as far as it goes, but if you want to be a professional marketer
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You got to do it again for somebody else's need
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And the way you do that is by gaining the empathy to imagine what it is to be in their shoes
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Don't have to be a woman to make pantyhose. You just have to be empathic
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Let's shift gears and talk a little bit about mission driven companies. I
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mean, it's been a
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slow burn so TOMS shoes and Warby Parker and you know
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These are some of the standout kind of cliche case studies. We talk about all the time
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But mission driven or Purpose Driven or maybe what you're saying work that matters?
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Maybe they're one in the same
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how do we how do we get there and if we're not thinking about this should we and
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If we should then how should we reframe or re?
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Configure what we've already got going
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well, I
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think the words matter so I mean
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I've known you for about almost ten years. Now, you are running a mission-driven organization. I know what your mission is and you have
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kept - your mission
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through thick and thin
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That doesn't mean you are giving shoes to kids in Rwanda
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It means you seek to make change you are changing
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group of people who do work with leverage
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You can visualize who those people are and the people who aren't those people you're not trying to change them
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you have a mission the medium could change you could stop using video and switch to podcasting, but your mission would be
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Consistent and so I begin there which is too often. We get hung up by reverse engineering our mission
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We say I'm making money doing X, so I will come up with a phrase that will let me keep doing X
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That's not what you or I are talking about
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When I think about someone like Blake at TOMS shoes
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Blake wanted to have a business that made money
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But also cared very much about the footprint that he was leaving behind. No pun intended with Tom's and
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So then yes, they can make coffee and they can make sunglasses and they can make the other things that they've tried to make
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Because it's not about shoes
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It's how do I get an early adopter of fashionista? Who wants a story?
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She can tell her friends to be able to buy a product. That's gonna have a better
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Positive impact on the world than the one she's currently buying
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That's the mission back to psychographic exactly and you know
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So Warby Parker, they don't make a big deal of the fact that every time you pair by a pair of glasses
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They give one away. That's not why they want you to buy a pair of glasses
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what they've said is
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For the kind of person who has better taste than they have a bank account right more desire to impress then they have cash
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how do we use the Delta between
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What luxottica would charge for these glasses and what we would charge for these glasses to create?
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convenience and a vibe of fitting in alright because it's interesting if you couple things I could say about war be
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Before war be open retail stores
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They didn't know a what a retail store would look like that would work for them and be where to put it
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So what they did was they bought a school bus and they outfitted the school bus
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like a store and
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then they would go on social media and say the store will be here and they would park the bus in different places and
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Any place the bus did well, that's where they knew a store would do
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Well like a food truck right, but it was brewing because it wasn't a food truck just to be a food truck
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it was intended to be a test of the store direct marketing thinking there a direct marketing company, but the other thing that's interesting is
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the cost to Warby to have 10 times as many glasses as they have would be zero to have every you know,
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They don't sell these I'm glad because I'm the only one who has them, but they could sell these why don't they?
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because
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We'll be saying people like us wear glasses like these
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You don't have that many choices and so you can't screw up
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There's only 20 or 30 looks to look to choose from that's exactly how many the slightly insecure
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fashion-forward glasses shopper wants to look at and
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Wore B's bet is that they can sell that person a new pair of glasses every three to six months
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Whereas if it was looks odd, okay, you can't afford right. So again, the psychographic is what's baked in
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Warby isn't busy running ads of people who live in foreign lands who don't have glasses. That's not their story
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That's not the story that resonates with the people they seek to serve
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Yeah, and if I can add to that, I think that they use a user experience company exactly
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So it's one of the smoothest user experiences I've ever had on the West super-convenient down respect
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Yeah, and it's quick and and they have a Zappos Amazon like, you know customer service return policy. There's lots of things going for them
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That's awesome
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How about the the white space?
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I like to talk about the white space, you know things that we're missing in marketing what our marketers missing
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I mean if you're a career marketer, you've done it all and
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You know, I've been on the client side. I you know, I worked for a big company
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we had a big P&L and I did everything radio and TV and
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billboards and I took over the internet and spent gobs of money, but like
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What what don't I know about right now that I'm missing well, I think the two biggest things are connected number one
387
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Your factor isn't worth much anymore
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It used to be worth everything so you had to defend the factory
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You got to say this is what we know how to make so this is what we sell
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but now
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Everything's a click away so you can sell anything you want. So don't come at this as the customers wrong
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I have this briefcase full of stuff. This is what I have to sell. It's how can I solve this person's problem?
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How can I market with them instead of at them and the second thing is attention used to be cheap. I
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Think about it the phrase CPM
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Damn doesn't stand for a million. It stands for a thousand
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I'm not sure why cause per thousand we're buying people's lives a thousand at a time for pocket change and
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00:31:30,201 --> 00:31:37,811
Since it's so cheap what the hell put a talking bear up do this interrupt this crazy, Eddy, whatever it's cheap
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We'll just try something else tomorrow
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and now it's not
400
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Like all of a sudden now, it's not now
401
00:31:44,922 --> 00:31:49,692
It's really expensive a thousand two fans ten thousand true fans
402
00:31:50,182 --> 00:31:54,701
It's enough to build a whole company a hundred thousand, true fans. You're all it's a homerun
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00:31:55,221 --> 00:31:56,902
100 thousand, that's it
404
00:31:56,902 --> 00:31:59,081
so the mindset of oh
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I don't have to just show up arrogantly saying I insist I can show up and listen and assert and
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00:32:07,732 --> 00:32:11,832
Everyone is not the goal cannot be the goal someone so
407
00:32:12,792 --> 00:32:17,971
How is then that helped you with your marketing channels, you know
408
00:32:17,971 --> 00:32:24,901
You've got these products or services whether it's the LT MBA or the the marketing seminars that what we're calling it
409
00:32:24,902 --> 00:32:31,861
Yes marque semenovka or your podcasts akimbo or your ongoing blog or new books?
410
00:32:31,992 --> 00:32:33,992
So I got super lucky
411
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because I decided I
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Didn't want more
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00:32:38,292 --> 00:32:41,731
I'm looking over your shoulder. And Tom Peters book is on you right over your shoulder
414
00:32:41,832 --> 00:32:48,151
And I talked to Tom he was my hero. I actually met him in 1983 when I was 23 years old and
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I
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Was on stage he was coming on
417
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After we were doing our tech check
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I was holding my three-year-old because he had come down with me for the weekend and
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At the time tom was doing between 90 and 105 speeches a year. I
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Have a picture of him sleeping on a park bench in Siberia to the Siberian Airport. I said Tom
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What how did you like what and he said I used to be able to do a great Tom Peters invitation
422
00:33:20,492 --> 00:33:21,702
I can't do it anymore
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00:33:21,702 --> 00:33:27,271
He said I had no choice. I have no choice. This is what I do. So it's like a shark
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it's like what he does and
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00:33:29,142 --> 00:33:35,401
I looked at that and I said I don't want more I don't want what Tom's got. I don't want the biggest blog
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I don't wanna have the number one best-selling book. I am NOT interested in whatever I would have to do to get more I
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Am happy with enough to do it for the people
428
00:33:45,792 --> 00:33:49,292
Who want me to do it with them because I made that decision
429
00:33:49,332 --> 00:33:53,821
I was able to stumble on this idea of the smallest viable audience. So
430
00:33:54,582 --> 00:34:00,301
The all 10 be a which is one of the most successful program of its kind has had three thousand graduates
431
00:34:00,642 --> 00:34:02,372
That's all three thousand
432
00:34:02,372 --> 00:34:08,851
So yes, it's many times bigger than Stanford Business School, but no, it's not three hundred thousand fine
433
00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:16,050
The marking seminar. My blog is read by I guess like a million people six thousand. I've taken the marketing seminar
434
00:34:16,112 --> 00:34:22,741
Could I have goosed it to sixty thousand of course I could but that I wouldn't be me and so my posture has been
435
00:34:23,232 --> 00:34:27,142
Don't level up on staff don't level up on spend
436
00:34:27,722 --> 00:34:34,162
Put all of it into better not more because if you can make better and afford to make better because you have true fans
437
00:34:34,742 --> 00:34:36,951
maybe they'll tell their friends and
438
00:34:37,472 --> 00:34:39,862
maybe you can do this work and
439
00:34:40,411 --> 00:34:42,530
doing this work is my privilege and
440
00:34:43,081 --> 00:34:49,940
So I'm totally fine. If it's not for you great, please don't come I have there's no squeeze play
441
00:34:50,331 --> 00:34:55,881
There's no lowering the price for 12 hours metabolic why I don't need to do that don't want
442
00:34:56,581 --> 00:35:00,862
Well, and that's how you've built your brand. So I guess the follow-up question to that is
443
00:35:01,472 --> 00:35:08,482
How can we use what should be our guiding principles, you know, is it our personal value system as a quality of life?
444
00:35:08,672 --> 00:35:13,881
What can be the compass to know how to build our brand because you've you said you got lucky
445
00:35:13,882 --> 00:35:15,922
I mean, I don't know about that. I mean it seems
446
00:35:16,832 --> 00:35:21,112
Like it was pretty calculated and very strategic, but you went and I've gone down this path
447
00:35:21,752 --> 00:35:26,602
And I'm sure there's been some twists and turns whatnot. But how can then the rest of us?
448
00:35:28,862 --> 00:35:30,682
Create the compass. What is our compass?
449
00:35:30,682 --> 00:35:37,461
Well, I think you got to tell yourself the truth and it's so like author so many authors have been to see me
450
00:35:37,462 --> 00:35:41,002
I love authors. So what's your goal? I want to make change happen
451
00:35:41,312 --> 00:35:43,791
So do you care about being in the New York Times bestseller list?
452
00:35:43,832 --> 00:35:47,271
Well, yeah, I need to because then they'll help me make change ever really
453
00:35:47,822 --> 00:35:51,021
Really because I could tell you how to be on the New York Times bestseller list
454
00:35:51,152 --> 00:35:54,231
but you have to trade this this and this for it and
455
00:35:55,352 --> 00:35:57,092
many of them do
456
00:35:57,092 --> 00:36:04,791
Because they're not actually keeping track of what got them started. They're using other people's metrics to do their work and
457
00:36:05,972 --> 00:36:07,402
That's as bad as having a boss
458
00:36:07,402 --> 00:36:13,581
It's worse because now you're in this cycle so we know how to double your the number of Twitter users
459
00:36:13,582 --> 00:36:19,521
We know how to make sure that there's more of this or more that and you justify but you know
460
00:36:19,522 --> 00:36:22,701
I have to make my editor happy and I have to do this and it no you don't
461
00:36:23,282 --> 00:36:29,422
What you need to do is get clear about who's it for and what's it for and if you are clear
462
00:36:29,882 --> 00:36:32,061
Like Howard Schultz was clear. He said I
463
00:36:32,732 --> 00:36:35,961
Need America to drink better coffee
464
00:36:36,752 --> 00:36:38,752
Well, that's your mission
465
00:36:38,881 --> 00:36:44,751
Then yes, you need 19,000 Starbucks. Yes, you need to serve things throughout the day in the night
466
00:36:44,792 --> 00:36:50,211
Yes, you have to be ok with you know still quest off because you can't figure out how you get the supply chain, right?
467
00:36:50,252 --> 00:36:54,322
That's all comes with I want all of America to drink better coffee
468
00:36:56,042 --> 00:37:00,471
But on the other hand, there's a guy who's got, you know, four coffee shops in New York City
469
00:37:00,692 --> 00:37:05,212
He says I want to make better coffee period for people who want it
470
00:37:05,762 --> 00:37:10,191
He works with people he cares about his cashflow is positive
471
00:37:10,232 --> 00:37:16,012
he does the craft he wants to do and it's not someone else's agenda because he's not a public company and doesn't want to be
472
00:37:16,381 --> 00:37:18,381
So both are available
473
00:37:18,722 --> 00:37:24,921
But be consistent and the mistake that happens is someone has four little coffee shops
474
00:37:24,922 --> 00:37:26,572
They say that that's what they want to do
475
00:37:26,572 --> 00:37:33,171
But then they keep compromising so they can have 18 coffee shops that are now pretty sucky. I don't know why you did that
476
00:37:33,992 --> 00:37:37,042
well zooming out then I mean it sounds like and
477
00:37:38,042 --> 00:37:42,622
I love this idea of business being so personal it sounds like to be
478
00:37:43,141 --> 00:37:48,201
The quintessential brand marketer, it really has to start right here has to start with us
479
00:37:48,202 --> 00:37:53,812
We have to be clear about what we really want. So Phil Knight is saying, you know, we want to be the company
480
00:37:54,452 --> 00:37:57,171
the brand that stands up for
481
00:37:57,932 --> 00:38:01,042
People that is on the right set of history that does the right thing
482
00:38:02,192 --> 00:38:05,782
So I'm sure he knows profits and I'm sure he did some math
483
00:38:06,092 --> 00:38:13,161
I'm sure it's not all altruistic. But those are the types of like value based decisions. We're making right the quality of life
484
00:38:13,161 --> 00:38:18,981
How much time we want to spend at home versus traveling a hundred days out of the year? Yeah, well
485
00:38:20,641 --> 00:38:27,681
Whatever job you do whether you're a brand marketer or an accountant, I hope at some point you said what's in here?
486
00:38:27,682 --> 00:38:30,411
I don't think we need to be altruistic
487
00:38:30,411 --> 00:38:36,951
But I think we need to be some true istic meaning we are true to some people for some people
488
00:38:37,532 --> 00:38:40,161
They can't believe how great this thing
489
00:38:40,161 --> 00:38:47,271
We made is for some people they would cross the street to get it and if I go down the list of modern brands
490
00:38:48,182 --> 00:38:52,272
That is true all of them. So Procter & Gamble
491
00:38:53,002 --> 00:38:57,581
Unilever brands not so much because they own shelf space and they own
492
00:38:57,922 --> 00:39:03,131
Acres of TV the TV's getting too expensive they could probably hold on in the shelf space for a while to come
493
00:39:03,532 --> 00:39:05,532
But that's not most of us
494
00:39:05,661 --> 00:39:12,070
most of us are not seeing they're saying crystal like crystal like Crystal Light because the fact is there aren't that many people who are
495
00:39:12,291 --> 00:39:14,771
bound up in the story of Crystal Light
496
00:39:15,801 --> 00:39:21,011
But if you wanted to build an important new brand if you want to grow the brand
497
00:39:21,012 --> 00:39:25,691
You've got you can't use the old technique because we know it doesn't work anymore
498
00:39:26,361 --> 00:39:31,840
And so what can you do to make a bigger impact which is you can be some twisted you can be obsessed with
499
00:39:32,032 --> 00:39:34,032
some people and
500
00:39:34,131 --> 00:39:36,641
Make them so happy to hear from you that
501
00:39:36,801 --> 00:39:41,531
They open your email that they call you on the phone that they wait in line to see you at the booth that they tell
502
00:39:41,532 --> 00:39:44,741
Their friends and tell their friends and tell their friends that begins with someone
503
00:39:44,841 --> 00:39:49,601
Caring enough to have the grit to say we're gonna make good stuff not lousy stuff
504
00:39:50,121 --> 00:39:52,901
So how is it being back and sort of traditional publishing?
505
00:39:53,212 --> 00:39:59,141
You know back to sort of blocking and tackling making books like you've done in the past. Yeah, so of course, I'm a hypocrite
506
00:39:59,141 --> 00:40:00,291
I have
507
00:40:00,291 --> 00:40:02,351
Repeatedly said it's my last book
508
00:40:02,351 --> 00:40:08,560
I've repeatedly said the publishing industry is so crippled by the shift that I have to
509
00:40:09,801 --> 00:40:15,071
Respect the people in it, but politely decline but here I am back with my friends at penguin portfolio
510
00:40:15,202 --> 00:40:22,901
The first reason is because as the seminar developed I realized I needed a book and I know how to publish my own books
511
00:40:23,182 --> 00:40:30,821
but when I thought about the mechanics of that I realized I needed a team of people who would do it justice and
512
00:40:31,581 --> 00:40:33,232
These were the best people
513
00:40:33,232 --> 00:40:37,901
But I couldn't help myself. So the other thing that we did which we haven't announced at all
514
00:40:38,242 --> 00:40:41,171
Which is we're going to talk about after the book comes out is I actually made
515
00:40:41,692 --> 00:40:46,901
19 extra covers for the book. Okay, and here's a couple of them
516
00:40:47,212 --> 00:40:53,081
Can't show them to you in too much detail because it's sort of a secret but what we're going to do
517
00:40:54,032 --> 00:40:57,421
like my creative director and I did them all ourselves all
518
00:40:58,182 --> 00:41:04,861
18 of these covers. So there's like an alternate cover like in a magazine like you write Sports Illustrated does exactly several different athletes
519
00:41:04,932 --> 00:41:10,982
Right same magazine different cover. So what's gonna happen is if you buy an 8 pack of the book from
520
00:41:12,012 --> 00:41:15,391
800 CEO Reed who I'm working with. They're gonna put in the 8 pack
521
00:41:16,002 --> 00:41:21,542
Eight of these covers. You don't know which 8 you're gonna get collect and trade them kind of thing plus like
522
00:41:22,092 --> 00:41:24,092
800 or $1000 worth of
523
00:41:24,822 --> 00:41:30,181
free slots or discounted slot discounted slots in the videos from the seminar
524
00:41:30,432 --> 00:41:37,952
So you get all this juicy stuff for the cost of the 8 books and I got to tell you after the book was done
525
00:41:38,891 --> 00:41:43,651
Yeah, because you could there's lead times and publishing. So now you like you have all this energy, but the books done
526
00:41:44,202 --> 00:41:46,562
so it was months of work to
527
00:41:46,842 --> 00:41:52,321
Make the envelope and the custom covers and the flip side of the posters and I loved that
528
00:41:52,322 --> 00:42:00,181
I was just such joy because I'm only making 2,000 of them and I knew that only 2,000 people are gonna touch this
529
00:42:00,732 --> 00:42:03,032
but that made it even better because it was like
530
00:42:03,032 --> 00:42:08,851
Okay, we get to roll up our sleeves and be craftsmen to celebrate this other thing we're doing
531
00:42:09,401 --> 00:42:13,021
So we didn't announce it in advance because we don't want people to just wait for it
532
00:42:13,391 --> 00:42:19,801
But it's gonna come out right after the book launches. That's so cool. You are the master of creating scarcity
533
00:42:20,442 --> 00:42:24,181
You you love this idea, right? Yeah, I love it because it creates value
534
00:42:24,611 --> 00:42:29,311
yeah, it does, you know limited time or there's I'm only making 10 of these or
535
00:42:29,861 --> 00:42:31,861
Yeah, it does right so part of it is
536
00:42:32,141 --> 00:42:38,701
Tension, which is what we know is before anyone says, yes, they get like this in any field you
537
00:42:39,341 --> 00:42:46,171
have to as a marketer willingly dance with that tension because you're creating it right and
538
00:42:46,812 --> 00:42:49,051
Then on top of it scarcity creates value
539
00:42:49,212 --> 00:42:54,062
but what it does for me is the Creator is it lets me off the hook from infinity and
540
00:42:54,341 --> 00:42:57,511
Infinity has never been my friend because if you are
541
00:42:58,302 --> 00:43:00,601
Making YouTube videos and you get a million
542
00:43:01,542 --> 00:43:03,542
Visits you say well, why didn't I get two million?
543
00:43:03,732 --> 00:43:08,852
Why didn't I get four million and what I get satisfaction out of the same
544
00:43:08,852 --> 00:43:14,491
Sorry so that cuz now I know I couldn't have gotten any more cuz I don't have anymore. It makes me
545
00:43:15,102 --> 00:43:21,001
Emotionally more connected to the work than having to say, this is for everyone and I need six billion
546
00:43:22,901 --> 00:43:24,901
Somehow that makes a lot of sense
547
00:43:25,512 --> 00:43:31,621
Can I get a little bit personal too and just ask you? You know, I know you always say when I ask you
548
00:43:31,621 --> 00:43:36,001
So what's next you know next is what I'm working on right now. This is what I'm most interested in
549
00:43:36,612 --> 00:43:37,752
You know
550
00:43:37,752 --> 00:43:41,131
I've been there and I've done that that's fine. But like at some point
551
00:43:42,852 --> 00:43:45,602
Share a little bit of the Seth dream with us
552
00:43:45,641 --> 00:43:53,491
Like are you I mean we're out here sort of, you know, upstate, you know up up the traffic halfway to sing-sing prison. Yeah
553
00:43:54,512 --> 00:43:55,422
is
554
00:43:55,422 --> 00:44:00,661
the goal to like retire in Italy at some point or like you're gonna have this, you know,
555
00:44:00,792 --> 00:44:07,441
Seth part two and you're gonna be some gourmet chef or create a chocolate factory like what are some of the
556
00:44:07,842 --> 00:44:10,201
What are some of the dreams and aspirations that you've got?
557
00:44:11,082 --> 00:44:15,751
You know, I won the dream and aspiration Lottery a long time ago
558
00:44:15,792 --> 00:44:19,741
So if I wanted to live in Italy I could live in Italy and the internet makes it even easier
559
00:44:20,742 --> 00:44:24,481
I almost started top elite company. I was four days away from it
560
00:44:25,002 --> 00:44:26,802
when I
561
00:44:26,802 --> 00:44:31,802
Tasted rogue chocolate I met Sean asked a nosy I said, I can't make chocolate better than rogue
562
00:44:31,802 --> 00:44:33,762
And I can't be a better person than Sean
563
00:44:33,762 --> 00:44:38,161
So all it would be as a marketing project and I'm already doing marketing project. Let these guys
564
00:44:38,682 --> 00:44:40,682
sell chocolate
565
00:44:42,161 --> 00:44:48,301
Every once in a while I play with the idea of starting a significant entity a software company or something like that because I see
566
00:44:48,852 --> 00:44:51,721
The niches in the market but more and more
567
00:44:51,722 --> 00:44:57,961
I'll just call somebody up some CEO of the public companies they used to go through this so I don't have to
568
00:44:59,682 --> 00:45:03,151
Have that conversation today, I hope that works, but the
569
00:45:04,391 --> 00:45:06,391
essence of it is this
570
00:45:06,672 --> 00:45:11,282
For someone who's lucky enough to be able to do almost anything. He wants this is what I want to do
571
00:45:11,282 --> 00:45:15,721
I want to be a teacher. I want to be somebody who helps turn on lights and
572
00:45:16,242 --> 00:45:21,341
helps people not everybody some people see things that they can't unsee and
573
00:45:21,952 --> 00:45:26,712
It's always in the service. How do I make this place?
574
00:45:26,712 --> 00:45:30,462
I'd rather live with my kids than it was yesterday
575
00:45:31,252 --> 00:45:38,591
Because if we could all figure out how to do that that positive cycle, I think that's what makes culture matter
576
00:45:39,141 --> 00:45:44,501
So yeah tomorrow morning. I will wake up and I've done what I'm supposed to do for my publisher
577
00:45:44,502 --> 00:45:49,871
I'm off the hook, and I haven't written anything new and I'm not building a new course right now
578
00:45:49,871 --> 00:45:54,401
I've got the courses we run because they work and I want to run them again
579
00:45:54,502 --> 00:45:59,381
And I've got the team of people in 40 countries who worked with me on various projects
580
00:45:59,381 --> 00:46:01,991
And I trust them and I love them and I want to do it again
581
00:46:03,022 --> 00:46:05,022
but
582
00:46:05,091 --> 00:46:09,161
It would be very hard for me to stop doing this right now I
583
00:46:10,042 --> 00:46:12,042
Gave up. The airplanes has been
584
00:46:12,351 --> 00:46:15,340
Hard, but I've mostly done it now. I'm down to one a month
585
00:46:15,952 --> 00:46:20,952
But other than that everything else about what I do is a privilege our true privilege
586
00:46:28,592 --> 00:46:30,592
You
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