All language subtitles for Trafficked.with.Mariana.van.Zeller.S02E06.White.Supremacy.1080p.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-squalor

♪ ♪

(overlapping chatter)

(rapid gunfire)

OFFICER: Go, go, go.

MAN (over phone): In
Walmart right now, AK,

somebody's got shot.

MARIANA: The world
is under attack from
a new kind of extremism.

REPORTER (over TV): Lone wolf.

REPORTER 2 (over TV):
Lone wolf.

REPORTER 3 (over TV):
The lone wolf
threat has increased.

MARIANA: Too often,
the blame is placed
on lone wolf shooters,

but nothing could
b further from the truth.

(chanting)

DR. ERROLL: The
white supremacist threat is

at an unprecedented
level in our country,

and I'm even going
back to the 1920s when

there was a
resurgence of the clan.

MARIANA: This is a story
unlike any I've ever pursued.

ALL: USA!

MARIANA: About a
global network of
white supremacists that

traffic in terror and hate.

JAMES: That's what happens
when high civilizations permit

themselves to go colored.

(ringing)

MAN (over phone):
Pump that (bleep) open
and pull the trigger.

MARIANA: Are you
telling people to go
kill people right now?

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

MAN: Whoa, whoa, hey.

WOMAN: Turn it off, click.

MARIANA: I want to understand
how this network operates.

How it recruits,
how it radicalizes,

and why so little is
being done to stop it.

Do you think there's a,
a race war coming?

ARTHUR: I hope so.

(theme music playing)

MARIANA: August 3rd of 2019

began like any other
Saturday in El Paso, Texas.

No one in the city of 700,000

had any idea that
their hometown would

soon witness one of
the worst mass shootings

in American history.

That was the day a 21 year old
white male drove 600 miles

from his hometown in
the suburbs of Dallas to

El Paso's Walmart Supercenter.

Inside his car, he
carried a semi‐automatic
AK‐47 assault rifle.

Sometime around 10:30 am,
he pulled into a parking lot,

exited his car,
and opened fire.

WOMAN (over phone):
Run, mija, run!

(rapid gunfire)

MAN (over phone): In
Walmart right now, AK,

somebody's got shot.

(rapid gunfire)

(panting)

ADRIA: Just running,
running, running.

MARIANA: Adria Gonzalez
was inside shopping with

her mother when
the massacre started.

ADRIA: I actually told my mom,

"Stay here and let
me see what's going on
to the, in the front."

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

ADRIA: That's when I
stopped and I saw bodies,

some bodies, and, and, uh,

people bleeding, people
with blood all over them.

WOMAN (over phone): Ah, no!

(overlapping chatter)

WOMAN (over phone):
We need CPR!

(overlapping chatter)

ADRIA: I was yelling,
"There's a shooter."

And just telling
them to go get out.

(sirens blaring)

(phone line ringing)

GILBERT: I always
called my son every day,

maybe five, six times a day.

And, uh, that morning I called
and there was no answer.

MARIANA: Gilbert Anchondo's
son, Andre was inside

the Walmart that morning,

shopping with his wife
and six week old son.

GILBERT: That's one of the
things that haunt me at night.

What was going
through his mind?

How did he feel
when he encounter, uh,

the shooter and, and
he stood in front of him?

MARIANA: Oh, so,
he actually came
face‐to‐face with the shooter?

GILBERT: He came
face‐to‐face with the shooter.

MARIANA: Andre died that day,

shielding his wife and son
from the shooter's bullets.

Though his wife
succumbed to her injuries,

their baby boy survived.

GILBERT: People were
actually calling him a hero,

people that had
told us that, uh,

"Well, I'm alive
because of your son.

He pushed me to
the side and he,

he was trying to
distract the shooter."

You know, I did everything
that a parent could

do for, for, for, his child.

So, I was the
first one that, uh,

brought him into this world,
and the last one that closed

his coffin and
sent him on his way.

MARIANA: 23 people
were murdered that day,

before the shooter surrendered
to Texas law enforcement.

In custody, he admitted he
was specifically targeting

anyone who looked Latino.

(sirens blaring)

ADRIA: Why us?

What did we do to him to
have so much hate towards us?

Why?

MARIANA: What few realized
is that the El Paso shooter

was part of a movement.

A global network
of white supremacists

who operate much like
a trafficking network.

Only they're not putting
drugs in people's bodies
or guns in their hands,

they're putting violent
fantasies in their heads.

I'm on a mission to
understand how it works,

what's motivating these
young white men to commit

such extreme
and bloody attacks,

and what can be
done to stop them.

(gunshot)

CHRISTIAN: You'll
never get the truth
from a current extremist.

Their whole job
is to lie to you and

to spin things their own way.

Which is why I say,
if you want the truth,

talk to a former extremist.

MARIANA: Do you
still have the jacket?

CHRISTIAN: I
still have the jacket.

MARIANA: Wow.

CHRISTIAN: So, this was CASH,
Chicago Area Skin Heads which

was that first American, uh,

neo‐Nazi group.

And then on the back.

MARIANA: Final Solution, oh.

CHRISTIAN: Final Solution was
my band name with the 88 which

is kind of shorthand, uh,

for the 8th letter
of the alphabet, HH,

which stands for Heil Hitler.

MARIANA: What was
the Final Solution?

CHRISTIAN: Well,
the Final Solution in

my mind was, uh,
the same thing that was

in Hitler's mind, uh,

and that was the
extermination of the Jews.

That was the
ultimate solution.

MARIANA: From
the age of 14 to 22,

Christian Picciolini
helped build

America's first neo‐Nazi
skinhead organization.

But today, he has devoted
his life to helping people

disengage from the
same extremist groups
he used to belong to.

CHRISTIAN: What I see when
I look at those pictures

is not a tough guy.

Uh, I see
a very, uh, insecure.

MARIANA: Hmm.

CHRISTIAN: Um, low self‐esteem

and broken young man.

And I think it's important for
people to understand that what

draws people to
those movements,

hate movements, is not
the ideology initially.

Nobody is born to hate.

It's something that we learn.

And for me, I was searching
for an identity, a community.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.
CHRISTIAN: And a purpose.

MARIANA: Christian was
ripe for radicalization.

And on a street
corner in 1987,

he was approached by
a skinhead leader and

recruited on the spot.

CHRISTIAN: That man
told me that I mattered.

Nobody had ever
told me that before.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: And I
bought into the ideas.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: That they
put into my head because

it made me feel powerful.

SONYA (over TV):
With me today,
Chris Picciolini,

19 years old, director
of the Illinois chapter

of the Northern
Hammer Skinheads.

CHRISTIAN (over TV):
Well, I believe we're
warriors today and

we're fighting for a great
cause which is the white race.

CHRISTIAN: I noticed my
life changed immediately.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: I went from
somebody who was had been

bullied to now
somebody who was feared.

MARIANA: Christian describes
his radicalization as a

descent into a community
of like‐minded individuals.

They consumed a potent mix of
race‐based conspiracy theories

and misinformation that
fueled their anger and

justified their attacks.

I wonder how that
radicalization process

compares to today.

♪ Damn, I'm so old ♪

♪ Just call me a shrink ♪♪

CHRISTIAN: In my day,
it was very face‐to‐face,

but what's happened now,
is the internet has kind of

become that digital alley that
I was recruited in except it's

an all you can eat,
24 hour hate buffet.

And there are millions and
millions of young people like

I was at 14 years old.

MARIANA: What about
the El Paso shooter?

CHRISTIAN: The whole idea
of a lone wolf is a misnomer.

Uh, while there are
white supremacists who
may never, in real life,

meet another
white supremacist.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: That doesn't
mean they're not connected.

MARIANA: The internet is a
technological game changer

amplifying lies and
weaponizing propaganda

like never before.

Extremists are
flooding social media
and encrypted chat forums,

creating an alternate
universe of imaginary threats,

where lies become truth, and
conspiracy becomes reality.

As of May 2021, Facebook
banned 250 groups linked

to white supremacy.

Often what starts as
edgy memes that target
young men on platforms

like Reddit, Twitter,

and others, quickly spirals
into more extreme content.

The El Paso shooter,

for example, wrote
that he was inspired by
a manifesto posted online

by a shooter in New Zealand
who live‐streamed himself

murdering 51 Muslims.

Called "The
Great Replacement,"

this manifesto
justified the killings as
a defense of white culture

from the
existential threat posed

by Muslims, minorities,
and immigrants.

The fact that these
white genocide fears have been

debunked time and again over
centuries means little online.

Within the echo
chamber of the movement,

the New Zealand shooter's
manifesto is revered and

used to
indoctrinate new recruits.

All too often,
that's how it works.

The speed of
online radicalization helps

explain why race‐based
attacks are on the rise.

As Christian said,

"Nobody is born to hate,

it's learned."

MOLLIE: By every metric,
white supremacy extremism is

the greatest terrorism
threat to the United States.

Far greater than the threat
posed by organizations like

Al Qaeda or ISIS.

MARIANA: Do you think we're
taking this threat seriously?

MOLLIE: No, this
threat is not taken, um,

as serious, uh,
as it needs to be.

MARIANA: Mollie Saltskog is
a senior intelligence analyst

for the Soufan Group
and an expert on

the rising extremism
threat in America.

She tells me that in
the 20 years since 9/11,

white supremacists
have committed nearly

three times as many
attacks on U. S. soil

as Islamic extremists.

MOLLIE: We've seen
how white supremacy
extremist groups here in the

United States are sharing
Al Qaeda manuals online,

on how to build bombs,
on how to recruit.

They are organizing in the
similar ways that Al Qaeda was

organizing in the
years leading up to 9/11.

DR. ERROLL: The policy
has always followed what

I call the Other.

The other ethnicity,
the other religion,

the other nationality.

9/11 made it easy.

We could focus on
Islam and jihadis.

MARIANA: Professor, author,
and former FBI special agent,

Doctor Erroll Southers
has dedicated his life to

combating violent extremists.

DR. ERROLL: America
has two problems.

Number one, we don't
want to believe that
Americans can be terrorists.

And second, they definitely
don't want to use the T word

if it's a white male.

When you hear about
the El Paso shooter,

nobody wants to talk about him
being ideologically motivated.

We pivot away from that.

Must have been a lone wolf,

must have had
some mental health issues,

because it's more
comfortable for us.

Now, America's denial
is just incredible.

MARIANA: What
Southers is diagnosing
is a national blind spot,

an inability for a
country founded by and still

largely run by white people to
recognize the very real threat

of white supremacy extremism.

Mollie, which groups
in particular, sort of,

worry you the most?

MOLLIE: The groups
that need to provoke, um,

a race war to build
their white ethno‐state.

MARIANA: This is
who I want to find.

The groups
pushing for a race war.

The terrorists that the U. S.

has been so reluctant
to label terrorists.

ARTHUR: If you
have an invasion
coming into your country,

you don't politely
ask the people invading
to leave, you kill them.

♪ ♪

MARIANA: Over the last
several years, the U. S.

has seen an increase in
racially motivated violence.

Many called these
lone wolf attacks,

but nothing could be
further from the truth.

JAMES: Well, if you're gonna
be on the side of history,

that's what happens when
high civilizations permit

themselves to go colored.

MARIANA: I'm in Denver to
meet one of the men pulling

the strings of this movement.

JAMES: We're called haters
and who in their right mind

can love what's going
on in this country today?

MARIANA: James Mason has been
pushing conspiracies about

white genocide for
more than five decades.

BOB (over TV):
You do want to bring
about violent revolution.

JAMES (over TV): It's
going to happen on its own.

BOB (over TV): No, no,
that's cute, that's cute.

JAMES (over TV): No
one can, no one can stop it.

No one.

MARIANA: In 1986, Mason tried
to help this revolution along.

He published Siege,

a kind of white
supremacist bible that

calls for terror attacks
just like Al Qaeda and ISIS.

So, are you concerned at
all that your writings and

your words can inspire
people to do horrific things?

JAMES: If it's going
to produce something,

if it's a proper target,

then it isn't, in my opinion,

even a murder.

MARIANA: Mason had fallen
into obscurity for decades,

but in 2015, a new
generation of extremists

inspired by Mason's ideas

created the
Atomwaffen Division.

Its members have plotted a
variety of terror attacks,

including targeting a nuclear
power plant in Florida.

They now have
cells in at least
three different countries

and are linked to five murders

in the United States.

So, you wouldn't take
offense if I asked you

if you consider
yourself a terrorist?

ARTHUR: I don't
consider myself a terrorist.

Now, is that something I would
be opposed to if I thought it

would help us take
power in the United States?

No.

MARIANA: By day, Arthur
is a 28 year old salesman,

but he's also

the Colorado cell leader for
the National Socialist Order,

the latest rebranding of
the Atomwaffen Division.

How did you find
your neo‐Nazi beliefs?

ARTHUR: I was
looking for a worldview,

for an ideology to explain why
things were going so haywire.

MARIANA: What, in the world,
were you seeing going haywire?

What wasn't working?

ARTHUR: I mean, everything.

Political discord.

Racial discord.

People being so alienated.

Shootings.

Drug addiction.

I felt that there must be
something that could stop

all of this from happening.

MARIANA: It's striking how
similar Arthur's story is

to Christian's,
roughly 30 years earlier.

CHRISTIAN: I was searching for
three really important things.

I was searching
for an identity,

a community, and a purpose.

MARIANA: Arthur found the
answers he was looking for

online on a now
defunct neo‐Nazi message board

known as Iron March.

The Southern Poverty
Law Center reports that

the forum is
linked to murders and

terrorism across
multiple countries.

Iron March is where Arthur
connected with fellow fascists

and was first introduced to
the writings of James Mason.

What are your thoughts
on the New Zealand shooter?

ARTHUR: I think the only
thing that he did wrong was

that he didn't kill more.

MARIANA: That is such
a horrific thing to say.

I mean, I, do
you do, do you, uh,

is it, is it for
the shock value that
you say these things?

ARTHUR: Not for
shock value at all.

If you have an invasion
coming into your country,

you don't politely ask the
people invading to leave.

You kill them.

(tv static)

MARIANA: Arthur and the
National Socialist Order are

now creating videos
to radicalize others.

How many people do you
think have seen this video?

ARTHUR: Thousands I'm sure.

MARIANA: Isn't this a
clear incitement of violence?

ARTHUR: Oh, I mean, maybe.

I, I wouldn't necessarily.

MARIANA: Oh, maybe? Maybe?

ARTHUR: Necessarily.

MARIANA: The,
it's three steps,
and the third is act,

and its people shooting
at the other people.

ARTHUR: Well, I mean, we
didn't ever tell anybody

to go out and do this act.

Maybe we implied it, but
we didn't ever tell anybody

to go out and do something.

MARIANA: Despite
these obvious threats,
the U. S. government has

yet to label
groups like the NSO as

domestic terror organizations.

Even though, they are
mirroring the strategies of

Al Qaeda and ISIS,
and not just online.

REPORTER (over TV): Three
teenage girls in our community

accused of trying
to travel to Syria in
an effort to join ISIS.

REPORTER 2 (over TV):
Many of them attracted
to join the terrorist army

through slick propaganda
on social media websites.

MARIANA: I remember
the outrage when the
American public learned

that dozens of
Muslims from the U. S.

had flown to Syria
and Iraq to join ISIS.

Now, American
white supremacists are

heading overseas to
gain combat experience

that they can use
when they return home.

(rapid gunfire)

DR. ERROLL: This is a
transnational movement,

we are seeing similar patterns
in other countries that have

the same problem,
same demographic,

many American groups
now are traveling,

overseas for training,
and to connect.

MARIANA: I asked Mason
what he can confirm.

JAMES: There were some, uh,

Atomwaffen people who
went over to the Ukraine,

who went through
some of their training.

And they came back with
some pretty glowing reports.

And I was, I
was delighted, just,

just delighted.

MARIANA: Who are those people
who came back from Ukraine?

JAMES: They were, um,
they were Americans, yes.

MARIANA: Can you
tell me their names?

JAMES: Are you kidding?

(laughs)

I could, but I won't.

(laughs)

MARIANA: All my research
points to Ukraine as well.

It's gained a reputation
as a major hub for the global

white supremacy movement.

(chanting)

I've traveled 6,000 miles
to Eastern Europe

to understand why.

And to see if I can find any
Americans who have been drawn

to this brand of
racial extremism.

MAN (over PA): Hail Nazis!

(chanting)

MAN (over PA): Hail Nazis!

♪ ♪

MARIANA: The importance
of Ukraine to the global

white supremacy movement
can be traced back to 2014.

REPORTER (over TV):
Ukraine's military is on
high alert this morning.

Thousands of Russian ground
and naval forces occupy

the Crimean Peninsula.

The Ukrainian military
is mobilizing troops and

calling on Army Reservists to
report for duty immediately.

MARIANA: Ukraine's
military was overwhelmed,

so volunteer militias
stepped in to fight.

Some of these militias
believed in racist and

neo‐Nazi ideologies.

But with a country
desperate to defend itself,

the Ukrainian government
made a devil's bargain.

They armed these militias,

paid them, and
ultimately legitimized them.

Extremist members
recruited other extremists

from around the world
to come join the battle,

including some Americans.

Ukraine became their training
grounds in preparation for

a race war back home.

EMILE: There was definitely a
draw of men that were coming

here to fight because
access was quite easy.

A lot of them went
to the Nazi groups,

to the extremist
groups and guys who,

with little
military experience,

were turning up in Kiev, and
within days being in a trench.

MARIANA: Right.

EMILE: With an AK‐47 shooting
at Russian separatists.

(rapid gunfire)

And no one really
knows what they're up to.

No one knows what
skills they're learning,

what they've
actually been doing.

MARIANA: Emile Ghessen
served 12 years in the

British military as a
Royal Marine Commando before

becoming a
full‐time journalist.

In 2016, he traveled to
Ukraine's front lines to

document the influx of
these foreign fighters.

Do you think it's dangerous to
have so many of them out there

in the world dispersed
with all this training?

EMILE: I see some of
these guys learn weapons and

bomb tactics, and
no one's vetting them.

It's lawless.

All it takes is one guy to
carry out a terrorist attack.

And especially, in
certain countries,

like the
United States of America,

where access to
weapons is quite easy.

MARIANA: Days
before my arrival,

Ukrainian state security

deported two
American extremists

who allegedly created
this new Atomwaffen video.

(speaking in native language)

EMILE: Crazy,
it's dangerous, isn't it?

MARIANA: It's
incredibly dangerous.

Only months earlier,

Ukrainian intelligence
arrested another extremist,

who was allegedly
selling translated copies of

the New Zealand
shooter's manifesto.

The same manifesto
that inspired the
shooter in El Paso.

Can you tell me what happened
the day you were arrested?

MARIANA: Russian,
Alexander Skatchkov eagerly

enlisted in Ukraine's
far right militias in 2014.

He's currently out
on bail, awaiting trial.

So, what I read in the
American media was that

law enforcement here found a
network of neo‐Nazis that were

selling this book and they
were stockpiling weapons.

Were you part of this network?

MARIANA: How did you get it?

ALEXANDER: Uh...

MARIANA: Skatchkov
didn't come alone.

He brought his
attorney with him.

He's in the room,
advising his client,

but refused
permission for his face
or his voice to be recorded.

MARIANA: What's happening?

MARIANA: Okay, got it.

Skatchkov's lawyer advises
him to say it's his hobby to

collect right‐wing literature.

So, what do you think of
the New Zealand shooter?

(laughs)

ALEXANDER: No.

MARIANA: The New Zealand
manifesto doesn't label
immigrants as newcomers.

It calls them invaders.

And it's clear
in the manifesto,

how white people should
deal with these invaders.

Do you know that this
manifesto has been used, um,

in other parts of the world,

including in
the United States,

to inspire other mass murders?

MARIANA: And that's the
temptation for extremists

around the world.

The desire to be a
part of a global movement
to assert white dominance.

Are you a Nazi?

(laughs)

Your T‐shirt, um, has
a lot of Nazi symbols.

MARIANA: And is
that a person doing

the Hitler salute
in the middle?

(laughs)

MARIANA: None of
this is a coincidence.

Despite the efforts of
the government to combat it,

Ukraine is clearly
home to a thriving
white supremacist underworld.

One that's lured more than
a few American extremists.

And thankfully, through Emile,

it looks like I
may have found one.

He tells us to meet him on a
corner near a Metro station.

So, he hasn't even
given you a coffee shop,

or a bar, or an actual
location for us to meet?

EMILE: Uh, they'll give
you a rendezvous point and

then they'll
come physically to,
sort of watch you.

To see what you're up to.

MARIANA: Oh, wow, okay.

EMILE: Make sure you're
not with anyone else, um.

Do reconnaissance of
the area and then come in.

MARIANA: I'm heading
to meet one of Ukraine's
most infamous veterans.

A former U. S. soldier
named Caig Lang.

EMILE: He's a bit
of a Ukrainian hero.

They love him here
because he was here from

the original
outbreak of the war.

He's been in the trenches,
but he doesn't really like

to talk to journalists
or anyone from the media.

MARIANA: Lang served
six years in the U. S. Army

before being
discharged for going AWOL and

threatening to
kill his then wife.

CRAIG (over TV): I came
to Ukraine to come and
help the Ukrainian people.

MARIANA: In 2015, he headed to
Ukraine to join Right Sector,

a volunteer militia with
an extremist reputation.

So, Lang was
actually recruiting
Americans to come here?

EMILE: A lot of
the guys, volunteers
for the United States

and Europe, who are coming
over here would contact Lang

and then he was
there facilitating them get,

to get to the front line quite
easy with the Right Sector.

MARIANA: So, it was,
sort of, a, a

Nazi organization or
associated with Nazis?

EMILE: So, yeah.

I wouldn't say all the
volunteers were Nazis,

but they're guilty
by association really.

MARIANA: So, what is he
doing in Ukraine right now?

EMILE: He's wanted
by the American FBI.

MARIANA: Lang may be a
hero to some in Ukraine,

but back in the States,
he's wanted for murder.

In 2018, Lang and an
accomplice were accused of

gunning down a
husband and wife during
a robbery in Florida.

He then fled back to Ukraine
to evade American authorities.

Are you concerned
that you're bringing in

a journalist
without telling him?

EMILE: He might feel
like I've tricked him.

MARIANA: Right,
that's what I mean.

EMILE: And done a runaround,
and then he might actually go

into panic mode thinking
that you're linked to the FBI.

So, I think we need
to be a bit, quite cautious.

MARIANA: So, you
guys stay in the car.

We're about a block away.

(bell ringing)

MARIANA: At a cafe,
next to the Metro station,

the American fugitive
finally shows up with

his Ukrainian fiancée
and their baby.

Just sitting across
from someone like Lang
proves Emile's warning,

that American extremists
are out here and that

no one knows
what they'll do next.

Lang is suspicious
about what I want and

who I'm working for.

He decides he doesn't
want to go on camera.

He thought that it
was sort of a setup.

EMILE: Hmm.

MARIANA: That the FBI
was trying to snatch him.

EMILE: I think the
thing with him as well.

He thinks anyone,
like yourself,

American could be a setup.

Even that you're saying you
work for National Geographic.

MARIANA: National Geographic.

EMILE: He still thinks
that you potentially
could be working with,

he thinks you're working
for the Russians actually.

And it just goes
to show that, that, uh,

that these guys are living
this life of where they're

so scared that anyone
can pick them up because

they are living
on the edge as such.

MARIANA: But Craig Lang is
not the only American whose

beliefs have
brought him to Ukraine.

This 2018 footage is from an
MMA event here in Kyiv hosted

by one of the country's most
notorious far‐right militias.

The event brought together
white supremacist from

across Europe and the U. S.

One of the featured
fighters was this man,

American Robert Rundo.

An infamous figure in
white supremacist circles

who's been on the run
from American authorities.

In fact, I heard rumors that
he might still be in Kyiv,

but I end up
tracking him down,

600 miles south of here.

MAN: Come on.

MARIANA: In Belgrade, Serbia.

MAN: Come on. Come on!

MARIANA: Finally, an
American willing to talk.

♪ ♪

(panting)

MARIANA: Would you say
you're a white supremacist?

ROBERT: No, I would say
I'm a white nationalist,

100% though.

Big difference.

You know, when you
say white supremacists,

you make it sound
like all I want to do
is step on other people.

When I say I'm a
white nationalist,

it's just that I want a
better future for my people.

Yeah, I say some stuff that's
a little edgy or whatever,

but am I killing people?

Am I doing anything like this,

am I promoting to kill?

No.

MARIANA: Sure,
but you still have
Nazi tattoos in your body.

ROBERT: Well, I
went to prison,

you know, so, you know.

MARIANA: I asked you because
I don't think you were even

trying to hide
the fact, right?

ROBERT: I don't hide the fact.
MARIANA: I mean.

ROBERT: No, I'm an,
I'm a white nationalist.

I'm, for sure,
I'm a nationalist,
you know, what can I say?

Well, maybe you
should look at, like,

the product that,
of the environment I
grew in before, like,

you guys want to
demonize me and make me this.

(boat horn wailing)

MARIANA: Robert Rundo's
odyssey began in

Queens, New York, where
he grew up in a rough,

working class neighborhood.

As a teenager, he
joined a local gang and

in 2009 went to
prison for three years

for stabbing a
rival member of MS‐13.

(shouting)

But Rundo captured
national attention in 2017.

MAN: (bleep).

REPORTER (over TV):
That's Robert Rundo
beating a counter protester.

REPORTER 2 (over TV):
The FBI says Rundo is
a founding member of

a white supremacy
extremist group,

headquartered in
Southern California

known as RAM.

ROBERT (over phone):
If anyone wants to know,

this is what we're about,
it's Rise Above Movement.

MARIANA: Rundo tells me
RAM promoted clean living and

self‐pride for white youth,
but the truth is they also

denounced immigration and the
very idea of multiculturalism

by spreading racist and
anti‐Semitic propaganda

on social media.

When RAM started showing
up at political rallies,

violently clashing
with protestors,

the FBI got involved.

Some members were arrested
and faced criminal charges

that were
eventually dismissed.

Rundo is facing his
own criminal charges of
inciting a riot and yet

remains in Europe in hiding.

I know you consider
yourself a nationalist.

Do you consider
yourself a racist as well?

ROBERT: I'm a
race‐realist, sure.

Like, I, I, I, you know,

I understand that
we're all different.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.
ROBERT: That's fine.

I don't think there's
anything wrong with that.

MARIANA: I think 99% of the
population out there would

have an issue with
being called a racist and

you're just,
you're embracing it?

ROBERT: Uh, I
don't really talk
about other races, really.

I just want to see
the best for my people.

Rise Above Movement
was about us.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.
ROBERT: Just for us.

MARIANA: So, why do you
think they came after you?

ROBERT: Because we
did something appealing.

We don't look like you're,

what the media
likes to portray.

We look like we could
be in the mainstream.

And you'd be surprised how
many people share our views

and stuff like this.

MARIANA: Rundo is
slippery about his end goals,

but his brand of
white supremacy sounds

different than the
masked extremists and
the neo‐Nazis I've met.

When you speak to
James Mason, for example,

he's proud of being a Nazi,
but then when you speak to

somebody like Rundo
he uses these words that
are much more palatable.

Now, who do you
think is more dangerous?

CHRISTIAN: I think
that Rundo and Mason
speak to different audiences.

MARIANA: Right.

CHRISTIAN: But
the goal is the same.

But outside, the suits that

they wear are
much different...

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.
CHRISTIAN: Right?

I think somebody
like Rundo is dangerous

because he can go
after the middle.

The middle is
the recruiting pool.

MAN: Ready? Let's roll.

ROBERT: What's going on guys?

Rob Rundo here with the
guidelines to Rise Project.

Uh, another
weekly video update.

MARIANA: And that's
exactly what Rundo is doing.

He's continuing to build
an online following around

the shared sense
of white resentment.

ROBERT (over phone): Your
skin is your uniform, man.

You don't need to
be super explicit.

You don't need to be edgy.

Trust me.

They'll, they'll
hate you regardless.

MAN: Come on, come on.

MARIANA: Rundo's
strategy might be working.

I wasn't the only American
from Southern California

spending time
with Rundo in Serbia.

(grunting)

MARIANA: His sparring partner
flew here from San Diego

inspired by
Rundo's presence online.

MAN: Good.

ROBERT: Last in the gas tank.

MARIANA: What do
you think of RAM?

MAN: I think that RAM is, uh,

one of the most
inspirational things in the
American Nationalist scene.

You know, I only have positive
things to say about Rob.

MARIANA: On the spectrum of
right‐wing extremist groups,

Rundo is like a gateway drug.

He calls his white supremacy,
white nationalism and

disguises his racism as pride.

It's a soft pitch,
tailored for the mainstream.

ROBERT: I think there's a
strong nationalist movement

happening everywhere.

People want to
be heard, you know,

and eventually they'll look
for alternatives to be heard.

MARIANA: Increasingly, it
seems those alternatives in

the U. S. are not
overtly hateful.

You see, the white supremacy
movement learned from the

backlash to the 2017
Unite The Right rally
in Charlottesville.

No one wants to be seen
publicly as a racist.

The movement still depends on
the same misinformation and

conspiracy theories
like the Great Replacement,

but their hate
has been laundered.

Their pitch, reframed.

Now, it's not about
attacking immigrants,

or Blacks, or Jews, it's
about defending white culture.

We see it with
Rundo and back home,

we see it with groups
like the Proud Boys.

ALL: Proud boys.

(cheering)

♪ ♪

(car horns honking)

(cheering)

ENRIQUE: We're not
looking for trouble.

We just want to
wave our flags and

we want to send our message.

We don't ask you
what color you are or

what religion you are.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

ENRIQUE: Or what
your culture is.

It doesn't matter to us.

The tenets are
what matters to us and
that you believe that,

you know, Western civilization
is the best civilization.

MARIANA: This
is Enrique Tarrio,

leader of "The Proud Boys."

An all‐male political
organization that claims to

defend Western culture.

Like Rundo, the group
claims not to be racist,

but many members wear symbols
and use gestures associated

with white supremacy.

Proud Boys from all across
the country have descended on

Portland today to organize a
protest and they've given me

unique backstage access.

One of the worries about the
presence of the Proud Boys

here is just that it increases
the chance of violence, right?

ENRIQUE: Hmm.

MARIANA: Of
confrontations that turn
violent which has happened.

JOE (over speaker): It
echoes around the world that

we love this
(bleep) country and

we're never gonna
(bleep) back down,

and we're going to stand
up to anybody that tries
to (bleep) with us, roger?

Let's do this.

(cheering)

MARIANA: Joe Biggs is
another leader of the group.

He's an army veteran
who fought in

the 82nd Airborne in
Iraq and Afghanistan.

JOE (over speaker):
I (bleep) fought overseas...

MAN: Thank you for service!

JOE (over speaker):
For years and years.

MAN 2: Yeah.

JOE (over speaker): I
didn't fight for Florida.

I fought for the
United States of America.

That means every city in this
country is my (bleep) city and

your city, and your city.

(cheering)

ALL: USA. USA. USA.

MARIANA: The Proud Boys formed
in 2016 to push back against

political correctness
and what they allege is

the white‐guilt agenda

of the left.

They now claim as many as
12,000 members nationwide,

who believe Western
civilization is under siege

and that the media
is part of the problem.

(shouting)

MARIANA: They saw a journalist
that they believe is from CNN,

basically mob mentality,
kicking that journalist out.

But this is what
happens in events like this.

You know, they can say this
is peaceful all they want,

but this is what we've
been seeing happening again,

and again, and again.

Moments later, we
become the target.

MARIANA: Hey, hey, hey.
MAN: Whoa, whoa, hey.

MARIANA: Hey, hey, hey, hey.
MAN: Hey, hey, hey, come on.

We're...

Get the (bleep) out of here.

CHRISTIAN: By
their own definition
the Proud Boys are a

Western chauvinist
organization.

And, uh, and if
you take away the,

the wrapping paper
of those flowery words,

Western chauvinist means
European power, right?

Or white power.

You know, they don't
look like white supremacists

or neo‐Nazis, but they've
done a good job of shielding

who they truly are
and even in some cases,

having members
who are not white,
be part of their group.

MARIANA: Including
their own leader.

CHRISTIAN: Including,
including their now leader.

Right.

DR. ERROLL: We call him their
"one not‐white guy," so okay.

These groups are really
good at appealing to the
guy and girl next door.

They start
asking those questions.

"Do you feel like
you're losing your country?

Do you have that job?

Did you get that car?

Are you buying that home?

You know why you're not?

Because of them.

It's because of them.

There's no grey area here,
you're either for them,

or for us, and yourself."

MAN: Bring it in.
Bring it in tight.

One, two, three.

DR. ERROLL: Now, once
that starts to take hold,

you've got this, what I call,
enabling community.

(cheering)

MARIANA: This is the slippery
slope of radicalization.

As the anger intensifies,
as the lies and hate spread,

and mix with other ideologies,

the possibility of extreme
violence becomes very real.

And on January 6th, 2021, we
witnessed what happens when

groups like the Proud Boys
and others are mobilized.

And the anger, lies,
and conspiracies move from

the digital world
into the real one.

(shouting)

♪ ♪

(shouting)

MAN: They're
climbing up the wall!

(cheering)

(shouting)

MARIANA: Like most Americans,
I was horrified by the attack

on our nation's capital by a
mob of right‐wing extremists.

(cheering)

MARIANA: What shocked
me even more was that

I personally knew
one of the attackers.

JOE: Who's (bleep) ready?

(cheering)

MARIANA: It was only weeks
earlier that I spent time with

Joe Biggs and listened
to him as he passionately
defended law and order

and peaceful protests.

Now, he's been arrested under
suspicion that he helped plan

the violent attempt to
overthrow our democracy.

DR. ERROLL: We knew
something was going to
happen on January 6th.

The intelligence
was overwhelming.

They expected 20,000 people.

People were going to be armed.

They were going to
target members of Congress.

MARIANA: Yet,
despite all these warnings

the federal
response to Washington's
Black Lives Matter protest

six months earlier was
significantly stronger.

DR. ERROLL: At
the end of the day,

it comes down to race.

Race is the 800 pound
gorilla in the room.

MARIANA: Even if the
capitol riot wasn't only
plotted by white supremacists,

it's playing
perfectly into their hands.

Re‐energizing the same old
myths about white genocide.

JAMES: The whites in this
country know it in their,

the depths of their soul that
they are being sold out and

that they are
losing their country.

MARIANA: Do you think
violence is justified?

JAMES: Yes, you
can do two things.

You can give it up,
lay down, roll over,

or you can fight.

ARTHUR: Once white voters
realize that their party

can't win anymore,
they're going to start
looking for alternatives.

And if they really
want another solution,

they will
eventually come to us.

MARIANA: It wasn't
just America's extremists

who felt this way.

White supremacists
around the world let out

a collective cheer
on social media.

Even Robert Rundo weighed in.

It seems to me like
there's a fire spreading.

Do you think it's
too late to stop this?

MOLLIE: It is not too late.

(screaming)

The threat looks different
than it did two decades ago

and we need to adapt our
security apparatus to be able

to counter this threat.

MARIANA: For 20 years, Islamic
extremists groups have been

designated foreign
terrorist organizations

by the U. S. government.

This designation
gives American law
enforcement agents a

far greater ability to
monitor their communications

and prosecute these groups
for what they are, terrorists.

If Arthur and the NSO
were Muslim extremists,

this video would be illegal.

The FBI would be
knocking on Arthur's door

and potentially
putting him in jail.

But right now, there is no
federal statute that labels

white supremacists groups
as domestic terrorists.

CHRISTOPHER: That attack, that
siege was criminal behavior,

plain and simple, and
it's behavior that we,

the FBI, view as
domestic terrorism.

It's got no place.

MARIANA: In testimony,
before Congress, FBI Director

Christopher Wray
made a point of saying that

his agency takes the
domestic terror threat as

seriously as it
takes ISIS or Al Qaeda,

but he also said this.

CHRISTOPHER: As
I've said many times,

we do not
investigate ideology,

but we focus on
acts of violence,

and violations of federal law.

MARIANA: If
that's the threshold,
white supremacy extremists

have plenty of
room to operate.

They can spread their hate,

they can recruit,
and radicalize.

And until they do
something illegal,

like shoot up a Walmart,

they are free
to live among us,

festering until they pop.

For me, you sort of represent
that light at the end of

the tunnel because you are
somebody that was radicalized

and then managed
to get out of it.

CHRISTIAN: We were taught that
the world was hostile to us

and what I eventually saw.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: Uh, was that
the world was nothing like

what I had been sold
for those eight years.

MARIANA: Christian explains
that his own de‐radicalization

took place at
the record store
he owned at the time.

CHRISTIAN: And it was the
first time I had meaningful

interactions with
people who were Jewish,

who were Black, who were gay.

Uh, and because I wanted
to be a good businessperson,

when they were in my store.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: Uh,
I bit my tongue.

And then, over time, uh,
it started to win over,

the fact that I had more
respect for the people that

I had hated.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: Than I did
with the people I had
surrounded myself with.

MARIANA: Since then, he's
helped hundreds of people
disengage from extremism.

CHRISTIAN: I would say I
get at least one request

for help a day.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.
CHRISTIAN: Sometimes multiple.

Text messages,
social media messages,

phone calls, people find
me from all over the world.

And if I can change...

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

CHRISTIAN: I know that
other people can too.

GILBERT: I don't think the
proper way of handling things

by killing each other.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

GILBERT: Or, or saying,
"I'm better than you."

And boom.

What makes you
better than other,
other human beings?

We're all equal in God's eyes.

I guess that's
the way I see it.

MARIANA: Mm‐hmm.

Before I said goodbye,

Gilbert Anchondo
pulled me aside.

He told me he's
forgiven his son's killer,

but not what's inside him.

And what's inside
him is still out there.

Radicalizing and recruiting.

DR. ERROLL: It's like
any other form of terrorism,

you will never eliminate it.

The metric of success
in dealing with this

domestic terrorism
is can we contain it?

The good news about that
is we know who they are.

The hoods and the
robes have come off,
and we have to respond.

Captioned by
Cotter Media Group.