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1
00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,160
Number one is Michael. The others are
numbered in the order we unearthed them.
2
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,040
So Michael and remains two and three
were in grave A,
3
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,080
remains four and five were in grave B
4
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,400
and remains six and seven were in
grave C.
5
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,480
So, to reiterate, they all underwent
some form of dismemberment.
6
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,800
There are remarkably few bones missing.
7
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,520
Teeth, nails, small bones,
they're all there.
8
00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,040
Four and five are missing vertebrae
from the neck, that's all.
9
00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,960
Both decapitated, presumably to fit
into grave B, which was smaller.
10
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,480
Hacking away at the neck, you're
going to dislodge something.
11
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,360
The ropes I've put by the wrists,
that's where they were found.
12
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,720
The arms were behind the back,
presumably tied. A very unnatural
position to be in if they weren't.
13
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:22,480
Similarly, I've put the belts and
the knotted cloth next to the heads
because that's where they were found.
14
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,080
Round the head, under the chin,
tied at the top.
15
00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,520
Presumably to keep their mouths shut.
Draw your own conclusions.
16
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,040
Some had fallen away
since decomposition,
17
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,880
but they were close enough to suggest
that's what they were used for.
18
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,280
Are you all right?
19
00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:49,600
You know what the forensic
archaeologist and Denise said,
20
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,760
about how none of them were buried
at the same time? Yeah.
21
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,800
They were all buried separately.
22
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,440
Even though they're in
the same graves. Yeah.
23
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,080
We've been blithely talking,
like assuming,
24
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,000
he filled one grave up
and then moved onto the next.
25
00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,400
It doesn't make sense. You don't dig
a grave and leave it open
26
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,680
just in case you kill someone else
later.
27
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,440
Even though you know you are
going to, because you're a mad twat,
you still tidy up between jobs.
28
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,680
You just do, but that isn't everything.
29
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,280
If he did... fill each grave,
before he moved onto the next,
30
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,440
there'd be three in two of the
graves and one in the third.
31
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,280
Why? You'd fill each one up before
you dug a new one.
32
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,640
He didn't do that. Two of them
weren't full
33
00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,480
and they were all as deep
as each other, so why not?
34
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,120
What if...
35
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,880
Look, that cellar's tiny, right?
He couldn't have dug another
grave in there if he wanted to.
36
00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:39,960
Yeah. So, he rotates.
37
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,800
He kills the first victim,
he digs a grave.
38
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,400
He kills the second victim,
he digs a grave.
39
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,840
He kills the third victim,
he digs a grave.
40
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,080
He kills his fourth victim, 'Ooh shit,
where am I going to stick this one?'
41
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,720
So, thinking he's buried his victims
nice and deep, which he did,
42
00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,040
he goes back to the first grave, grave
A, thinking, 'There's room in there.'
43
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,280
Victim number five, he puts in grave B.
44
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,640
Victim number six goes in grave C.
45
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,680
Then he gets to Michael,
46
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,720
number seven, and he's
triple-stacking in grave A.
47
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,760
Which would make Michael...
48
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,360
the last victim,
at least in that cellar.
49
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,400
The point is...
50
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,160
if Michael was buried last,
it whittles our timescale down,
51
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,560
because we know exactly when Michael
was killed, so...
52
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,200
We know our victims were killed
between March 1966,
53
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,440
when the Bevans moved into that house,
54
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,040
and June 1977,
55
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,360
when Helen helped Joe bury Michael.
56
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,320
That would also mean remains three,
the one at the bottom of the grave,
57
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,520
Michael, grave A, was buried in,
was the first victim.
58
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,160
Yeah. Yeah. It would.
59
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,200
If we could work out the order
graves B and C were dug in,
60
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:50,400
we'd know the order they were
all buried in and, presumably,
the order they were killed in.
61
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,600
And grave B was the smallest. He had
to decapitate them to get them in.
62
00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,760
Which might suggest that was dug last,
because he'd left himself not so much room.
63
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,280
The whole thing is speculative
bollocks, of course.
64
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,200
Now all we still have to do is find
out who they all are.
65
00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,120
Oh, damn. Can you?
66
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,120
Denise, hi.
67
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,560
It's Gill. She's driving.
Do you want her?
68
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,760
I can. I'll tell her.
69
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,040
What? They've found human remains
under the floorboards
70
00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,280
in Eunice and Joe's bedroom.
71
00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:30,520
I want to talk to you
about the cellar again now, Joe.
72
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,040
I know I've asked you
this question before,
73
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,080
but I'm going to ask you again.
74
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,880
Can you explain to me what you used
the cellar for? Nothing.
75
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,040
Like I said, Eunice used to potter
about down there.
76
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,480
And the kids went down there
to muck about, from time to time.
77
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,680
I had no reason to go down there
myself.
78
00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:55,120
Do you recognize this key, Joe?
79
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:56,280
No.
80
00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,680
That is the key, the only key
that we've found in your house,
81
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,440
that opens the lock on the door
into the cellar.
82
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,600
So, can you explain to me, Joe,
83
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,800
if you've never been in the cellar,
84
00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:10,640
why that key has got
your fingerprints on it?
85
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:13,840
Well, I could have picked it up.
86
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,440
I could have touched it without
knowing what it was for.
87
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,560
Can you explain to me, Joe,
if you've never been in the cellar,
88
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,080
why your fingerprints are on
the inside of the cellar door?
89
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:28,840
Right, right, right.
90
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,080
Well, I say I've never been in.
91
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,920
I have been in there.
92
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,680
I mean, I never went down there
regularly.
93
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,560
For any purpose.
94
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,720
Can you explain to me, Joe,
if that's the case,
95
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,920
why your fingerprints are on both bolts
on the inside of the cellar door?
96
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,280
I've never...
97
00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,120
They're not.
98
00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:57,080
I don't know.
99
00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,520
I have not been down in that cellar,
not for years.
100
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,880
Well, fingerprints hang around
for a long time, Joe,
101
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:08,920
if nobody wipes them off.
102
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,960
You'd be surprised.
103
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,760
So can you explain to me why you
were locking yourself in the cellar,
104
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,120
however many years ago it was,
the last time that you did it?
105
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,360
Joe, why were you locking yourself
in the cellar?
106
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,400
I'm not saying I was.
107
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,320
No, Joe, I am. I'm saying that you
were locking yourself in the cellar,
108
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,640
because why else would your
fingerprints be on both bolts?
109
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,200
How could you have been doing anything
other than locking yourself in the cellar?
110
00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:41,640
Joe?
111
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,200
We also found, as I've explained
to you before,
112
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,480
in the cellar, a mattress,
a double-sized mattress.
113
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,560
I've shown you a picture
of this mattress before.
114
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,840
I'm going to show it to you again now.
115
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,440
You said that you didn't recognize it.
116
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,720
Do you still not recognize it, now
you've had time to think about it?
117
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,000
Joe, can you explain to me,
118
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,040
if you don't recognize it...
119
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,720
why it's got traces of your semen
all over it?
120
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:20,920
Joe?
121
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,320
Well...
122
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,040
What?
123
00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,080
I might have...
124
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,120
You might have what, Joe?
125
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,760
Locked myself in there... to have...
126
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:41,720
You know.
127
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,760
Now and again.
128
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,200
On the mattress?
Yeah.
129
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:54,040
OK. So, you locked yourself in the cellar
to go and masturbate on this mattress?
130
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,280
Is that what you're telling me?
Yeah.
131
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:57,920
OK, Joe.
132
00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,760
You'll appreciate,
133
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,800
given the nature of what we found
buried in the cellar,
134
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:08,640
that everything found in there has
been sent for every kind of forensic
analysis we have available to us.
135
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,680
When this mattress was analyzed,
136
00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,320
not only did we find your DNA
in the semen,
137
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,360
we also found traces of blood
on this mattress.
138
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,800
So, can you explain to me, Joe,
139
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,760
how the DNA from the blood traces
that were found on this mattress
140
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,160
match exactly the DNA of four of
the seven young male adults
141
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,800
that we found buried
under your cellar floor?
142
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,840
She's good, isn't she?
143
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,880
Well, she's trained.
144
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,000
Joe, can you explain that to me?
145
00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,000
No.
146
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,040
We got lucky with those stains.
147
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,080
A cold, dry cellar.
148
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,680
You don't get one of them every day.
149
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,720
The head and the hands are missing.
150
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,320
The body was rolled in a carpet
and wedged, very wedged,
151
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,640
sideways, between the joists.
152
00:08:56,680 --> 00:08:59,480
We'll have confirmation
from the lab tomorrow,
153
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,120
but the remains, such as they are,
are those of a young female adult.
154
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,560
Sheila.
Well, we'll see.
155
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,480
Phil Cairns' statement? Still
ploughing through the files.
156
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,000
Just you? Me and Becky.
157
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,360
Can we assign one more officer
to look for these documents?
158
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:20,360
If this statement is gone with the wind, I
want to know sooner rather than later. Sure.
159
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,480
We have had a bit of luck
this afternoon, ma'am.
160
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,720
Now we're thinking we've narrowed
down the timescale.
161
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,480
Stephen Norgrove, 17 years old,
reported missing October, 1974.
162
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,520
Way up on our grid of possibles.
163
00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:37,880
We had South Yorks Police visit
his mother, she's in Sheffield,
164
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,520
to take oral swabs,
which they've now done.
165
00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:42,360
But, what she also said,
166
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,400
was the last time she spoke to
her son was on the phone.
167
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:50,240
He'd gone to Manchester looking for work and
rang asking could she send him some money.
168
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,920
The address he gave to send
the postal order to and she's 100%,
169
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,160
it was the last time she spoke to him,
170
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,000
was in Peveril Street.
171
00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,000
Like he was lodging there.
172
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,480
Have we fast-tracked the swab? Yeah.
We should have something tomorrow.
173
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,200
Have we got his MFH file?
174
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,120
There isn't one. His name came to us
from the Missing Persons Helpline.
175
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,480
We've now traced and swabbed for DNA
or we're in the process of doing,
176
00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,120
the parents or siblings
of 211 possibles,
177
00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,920
on the new shorter grid, out of 467.
178
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:20,680
And still no matches?
179
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,280
Do we need to inform the next of kin
that it's Sheila?
180
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,080
I mean, flag it up
that it's likely to be her?
181
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:30,560
Helen?
182
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,320
Oh, God, yes, of course.
183
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:33,880
Who is...?
184
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:36,920
Can you, Janet?
185
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,200
Is she... Is... Where did Witness
Protection put her?
186
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,400
They didn't. I did. She's at
the Plaza Inn in Chadderton.
187
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,080
We're paying for it. Well, you are.
The investigation is. Good.
188
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,920
And Joe. Erm... Let's wait for
definite confirmation of her ID.
189
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,960
We'll tell him tomorrow, before you
carry on interviewing him, Rachel.
190
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,000
Good. Thank you.
191
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,680
Night night. Off you go. I know it doesn't
always feel like we're moving forward,
192
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,440
but, believe me, we are,
you're all marvelous.
193
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,320
Except the little death-wish tosser who's
been talking to the lovely journalists.
194
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,800
Nice interview, by the way.
195
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,320
Yeah? Mm.
It'll be nicer when he coughs.
196
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,920
I was waiting for you to ask him
why he...
197
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,120
What? Why he what?
198
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,760
Why he wanked on his mattress.
Oh, shut up!
199
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,800
That's attractive, Joe. But why?
200
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,040
No, really, why would you?
To make it smell better?
201
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,680
Or because you'd mistaken it
for a toilet
202
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,520
or a tissue?
203
00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:42,880
I'm not discussing it. He really
hadn't thought it through.
204
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:44,520
Well, I hadn't.
205
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,760
I mean... You're right.
Why would you?
206
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,120
Well, you wouldn't.
I mean, we wouldn't.
207
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,440
Obviously, because we're ladies.
Yeah, and we don't wank.
208
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,400
We don't fart. We don't get drunk
and we don't swear.
209
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,440
Eh, have you rung Sean?
Piss off.
210
00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,120
No. No.
211
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,120
I'm not prying. You do what you like.
But four nights?
212
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,560
He must think something, four nights,
and you don't go home.
213
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,600
He doesn't own me.
214
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,440
I want him to realize that and,
when he does, he might... bugger off.
215
00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,040
Sorry...
216
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,360
Am I all right sleeping round
at your house tonight again?
217
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:19,880
Yes.
218
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,160
I rang her twice earlier and I texted
her, but I've heard nothing back.
219
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,480
Helen?
220
00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,040
Er, no.
221
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,480
I appreciate that. Thank you.
222
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:42,680
Sorry to wake you...
223
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,240
Oops.
224
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,080
She's not back at Louise's.
225
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,120
She's definitely not checked out.
226
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,640
And you've not seen her? No.
But I've only been on since seven.
227
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,680
We're police officers.
228
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,720
You couldn't let us into her room?
229
00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,920
Thank you.
230
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:01,840
Helen? Helen...
231
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,680
Oh, shit. Rach.
232
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,720
Helen? Helen?
233
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,760
Helen, can you hear me?
234
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,800
Helen, it's Rachel and Janet.
235
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,840
Ambulance. Plaza Inn, Chadderton.
236
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:13,360
Helen?
237
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,000
I'm an off-duty police officer,
Janet Scott.
238
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,640
Can you hear me?
239
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,680
Address: 20, Clough Road, Oldham.
240
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,520
OL59JK.
241
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,560
Yeah, I've got a lady.
242
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,320
She's unconscious.
She's taken an overdose.
243
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,840
Shit.
244
00:13:32,775 --> 00:13:34,775
Oh, shit.
245
00:13:36,038 --> 00:13:36,938
Hello.
246
00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:38,390
Hi, it's me.
247
00:13:38,552 --> 00:13:40,512
Where are you?
248
00:13:40,552 --> 00:13:43,552
I had to bring somebody into
hospital, a witness, an overdose.
249
00:13:43,592 --> 00:13:47,032
So, I'm just ringing to say I may as
well stay at Janet's again tonight.
250
00:13:47,072 --> 00:13:50,312
She's here, as well. God knows what
time we're going to be here till.
251
00:13:50,352 --> 00:13:54,352
Why are you stopping at Janet's?
Because it's... It's just easier.
252
00:13:54,392 --> 00:13:58,272
Janet's house is ten minutes, a quarter
of an hour max, from our house.
253
00:13:58,312 --> 00:14:01,232
You don't know how knackered I get
on a big inquiry and -
254
00:14:01,272 --> 00:14:04,032
I need to talk to you.
What's it about?
255
00:14:04,518 --> 00:14:06,038
Us.
256
00:14:06,078 --> 00:14:07,678
This.
257
00:14:07,718 --> 00:14:09,718
Whatever's going on.
258
00:14:10,918 --> 00:14:14,798
Because... I'm... I'm struggling
here, Rachel.
259
00:14:15,878 --> 00:14:19,598
You'd rather be sleeping in
a sleeping bag in the sitting room.
260
00:14:19,638 --> 00:14:21,838
Then you're sleeping over at your...
261
00:14:21,878 --> 00:14:24,078
friend's for four days.
262
00:14:24,118 --> 00:14:25,758
OK. Right.
263
00:14:25,798 --> 00:14:27,798
We'll talk tomorrow.
264
00:14:27,838 --> 00:14:29,838
Right. Not on the phone.
265
00:14:29,878 --> 00:14:31,678
I want you here.
266
00:14:31,718 --> 00:14:33,358
Right. Of course.
267
00:14:33,398 --> 00:14:35,718
I want to know what's up.
Nothing's up.
268
00:14:36,798 --> 00:14:39,638
I'm just... I'm...
I'm just not used to...
269
00:14:39,678 --> 00:14:41,158
Oh, God.
270
00:14:41,198 --> 00:14:44,198
It's fine, it's fine.
Everything is going to be fine.
271
00:14:45,278 --> 00:14:47,278
I'm just a bugger to live with.
272
00:14:47,318 --> 00:14:49,518
I know that doesn't make it any easier.
273
00:14:51,838 --> 00:14:53,638
I know I'm shit.
274
00:14:53,678 --> 00:14:58,078
I want to know what time you're gonna be
here. I can't give you a specific time.
275
00:14:58,118 --> 00:15:00,478
I want to know.
276
00:15:00,518 --> 00:15:03,238
Well, it depends on what time
Godzilla lets us go.
277
00:15:03,278 --> 00:15:04,878
So I'll text you.
278
00:15:04,918 --> 00:15:07,718
I'll let you know what a likely time
is likely to be.
279
00:15:07,758 --> 00:15:09,158
All right?
280
00:15:09,198 --> 00:15:11,918
Why don't you just come home tonight?
281
00:15:12,998 --> 00:15:16,518
After you've finished doing whatever
it is you're doing there.
282
00:15:18,798 --> 00:15:20,278
Eh?
283
00:15:21,078 --> 00:15:22,878
Yeah. All right. Fine.
284
00:15:22,918 --> 00:15:24,638
I'll be waiting.
285
00:15:24,678 --> 00:15:27,398
I've got to go, Sean.
Someone has just turned up.
286
00:15:28,558 --> 00:15:30,558
Hi, Louise. Thanks for coming.
287
00:15:30,598 --> 00:15:34,198
Is she going to be all right?
I don't think she was messing about.
288
00:15:34,238 --> 00:15:35,878
She's through there.
289
00:15:35,918 --> 00:15:37,958
My colleague, Janet, she's with her.
290
00:15:37,998 --> 00:15:40,438
She is conscious.
They're doing some blood tests
291
00:15:40,478 --> 00:15:43,478
to assess if there's any long-term
damage to the liver.
292
00:15:43,518 --> 00:15:46,398
They know what they're doing.
She's in good hands.
293
00:16:01,998 --> 00:16:04,158
Alleluia! Nice to see you.
294
00:16:04,198 --> 00:16:05,218
Whatever.
295
00:16:05,249 --> 00:16:08,029
Nice of you to pop in. Do you want
to have this conversation
296
00:16:08,086 --> 00:16:10,006
or shall I just walk out again?
297
00:16:11,166 --> 00:16:12,966
How's your witness?
298
00:16:15,454 --> 00:16:16,654
She's gonna be fine.
299
00:16:16,701 --> 00:16:18,501
I've not seen you...
300
00:16:18,541 --> 00:16:20,541
for four, five days.
301
00:16:21,341 --> 00:16:23,421
All I've had is shitty, stupid texts.
302
00:16:23,461 --> 00:16:27,461
'I've had too much to drink. I'm
stopping at Janet's.' For four nights?
303
00:16:28,701 --> 00:16:30,181
Basically...
304
00:16:32,261 --> 00:16:34,941
I'd like to know what's going on.
305
00:16:37,221 --> 00:16:38,821
OK.
306
00:16:40,941 --> 00:16:42,541
The thing is...
307
00:16:44,181 --> 00:16:45,981
This isn't working.
308
00:16:48,421 --> 00:16:50,541
And this isn't your fault.
This is...
309
00:16:51,741 --> 00:16:55,741
It's mine, it's my fault, it's all my
fault, I'm prepared to accept that.
310
00:16:55,781 --> 00:16:57,261
I'm not...
311
00:16:58,661 --> 00:17:00,261
It's not...
312
00:17:00,301 --> 00:17:02,301
I mean, it's me.
313
00:17:02,341 --> 00:17:03,941
It's all me.
314
00:17:03,981 --> 00:17:05,981
I'm nuts. I'm impossible. I just...
315
00:17:08,941 --> 00:17:10,941
I can't live like this.
316
00:17:11,941 --> 00:17:13,541
I love you to bits.
317
00:17:13,581 --> 00:17:15,781
Sean, you're brilliant, you're great.
318
00:17:15,821 --> 00:17:19,421
You're the nicest man in the world,
but I just can't do this.
319
00:17:19,461 --> 00:17:21,141
24/7.
320
00:17:21,181 --> 00:17:23,181
I thought I could, but I can't.
321
00:17:23,221 --> 00:17:25,941
No. No, I didn't think I could,
I didn't...
322
00:17:27,781 --> 00:17:30,061
I didn't think about it.
323
00:17:30,101 --> 00:17:32,101
Which I think is...
324
00:17:32,141 --> 00:17:33,741
erm...
325
00:17:33,781 --> 00:17:35,261
is...
326
00:17:38,261 --> 00:17:40,261
I can't do this.
327
00:17:46,021 --> 00:17:48,021
What...
328
00:17:48,061 --> 00:17:50,061
specifically
329
00:17:50,101 --> 00:17:52,101
is it
330
00:17:52,141 --> 00:17:54,141
you can't do?
331
00:17:59,581 --> 00:18:01,581
I want to be on my own.
332
00:18:09,221 --> 00:18:12,701
So then what happened?
Well, he was upset, obviously.
333
00:18:13,861 --> 00:18:16,661
Then he said, 'Why would you want
to do that to me?'
334
00:18:16,701 --> 00:18:18,541
This isn't about you.
335
00:18:18,581 --> 00:18:20,421
It is about me!
It's not.
336
00:18:20,461 --> 00:18:22,061
I'm here!
337
00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:25,501
I'm part of whatever's going on
inside your stupid brain!
338
00:18:25,541 --> 00:18:27,861
Because whatever you do affects me!
339
00:18:27,901 --> 00:18:29,701
I've messed up. I'm sorry.
340
00:18:29,741 --> 00:18:32,461
I should have... I'm a mess.
You deserve better.
341
00:18:32,501 --> 00:18:34,741
We've only been married five minutes.
342
00:18:34,781 --> 00:18:36,661
It's not your fault.
343
00:18:36,701 --> 00:18:40,141
I just don't get
what's going on inside your head.
344
00:18:40,181 --> 00:18:41,781
I just...
345
00:18:42,861 --> 00:18:44,661
can't do this.
346
00:18:46,861 --> 00:18:48,861
I... I gave up my flat.
347
00:18:50,861 --> 00:18:52,461
You're...
348
00:18:52,501 --> 00:18:57,061
What were you thinking walking down
the aisle, saying the vows?
349
00:18:58,301 --> 00:18:59,901
Nothing.
350
00:18:59,941 --> 00:19:01,781
All the money we've spent. Eh?
351
00:19:01,821 --> 00:19:03,621
I screwed up.
352
00:19:03,661 --> 00:19:05,661
You've screwed up.
353
00:19:07,741 --> 00:19:10,021
So... w... what do I do now?
354
00:19:10,061 --> 00:19:12,621
I don't know. Anything you like.
355
00:19:12,661 --> 00:19:14,661
What do you expect me to do now?
356
00:19:14,701 --> 00:19:16,701
Did you just say anything I like?
357
00:19:17,901 --> 00:19:21,501
I don't even know what this is about,
Rachel. I need my flat back.
358
00:19:22,541 --> 00:19:24,141
I'm sorry?
359
00:19:25,821 --> 00:19:27,821
You want me to move out?
360
00:19:29,741 --> 00:19:31,301
Well, I -
361
00:19:32,421 --> 00:19:35,421
Are you serious? Are you serious?
362
00:19:37,781 --> 00:19:39,781
I'm not going anywhere.
363
00:19:47,021 --> 00:19:48,621
All right.
364
00:19:51,821 --> 00:19:53,821
What are you doing?
365
00:19:53,861 --> 00:19:55,861
Where are you going?
366
00:20:02,181 --> 00:20:04,181
Where are you going?
367
00:20:04,221 --> 00:20:06,301
It's the middle of the night!
368
00:20:06,341 --> 00:20:07,941
You're mad.
369
00:20:10,821 --> 00:20:13,101
You are mad!
You do know that, don't you?
370
00:20:14,181 --> 00:20:15,781
You mad bitch!
371
00:20:17,781 --> 00:20:19,781
Gosh. Well.
372
00:20:22,301 --> 00:20:23,781
Blimey.
373
00:20:23,821 --> 00:20:25,821
Shall I go and brush my teeth? Yeah.
374
00:20:29,546 --> 00:20:33,866
She's trouble, that one, I've told
you before, and we haven't got room.
375
00:20:33,906 --> 00:20:35,906
It'll resolve itself.
376
00:20:42,506 --> 00:20:44,106
Morning.
377
00:20:44,146 --> 00:20:46,146
What's that reckoned to be?
378
00:20:46,186 --> 00:20:48,186
Rachel. She smokes like this.
379
00:20:48,226 --> 00:20:49,706
Oh.
380
00:20:49,746 --> 00:20:51,346
Does she?
381
00:20:52,186 --> 00:20:55,866
Ma'am, DC Broadhurst just called
from DHQ. They've found it.
382
00:20:55,906 --> 00:20:57,786
Phil Cairns' statement from 1977.
383
00:20:57,826 --> 00:21:00,746
And the documents from
the subsequent inquiry. Yes!
384
00:21:00,786 --> 00:21:03,826
It's interesting, though.
It's dated July 1977, so...
385
00:21:03,866 --> 00:21:05,986
He didn't report it for seven months.
386
00:21:07,066 --> 00:21:10,586
Have I got a driver outside? Ring me
as soon as you get that file.
387
00:21:17,226 --> 00:21:21,506
I can confirm that yesterday the remains of
a teenage girl were found in the property.
388
00:21:21,546 --> 00:21:23,066
And that, this morning,
389
00:21:23,106 --> 00:21:27,186
we have identified them as
the remains of Sheila Anne Bevan,
390
00:21:27,226 --> 00:21:30,746
the eldest daughter of Joseph
and Eunice Bevan.
391
00:21:30,786 --> 00:21:34,386
I can also confirm that we have now
been able to identify
392
00:21:34,426 --> 00:21:38,026
one of the young adult males found
buried in the cellar,
393
00:21:38,066 --> 00:21:40,346
as Stephen James Norgrove,
394
00:21:40,386 --> 00:21:45,586
who was 17 years old and came from
the Attercliffe area of Sheffield.
395
00:21:46,346 --> 00:21:51,866
Thank you. Is it true that Helen Bartlett
was in hospital last night and that she'd
taken an overdose?
396
00:21:51,906 --> 00:21:54,986
Find out which news organization
he's with.
397
00:21:55,026 --> 00:21:59,026
There will be a further bulletin
later on today. Thank you.
398
00:22:03,066 --> 00:22:06,586
They're fascinated with Helen,
aren't they? They want blood.
399
00:22:06,626 --> 00:22:10,546
Normally, all they want to know is if
we're any nearer charging anyone.
400
00:22:10,586 --> 00:22:12,586
I am -
I don't doubt for a second
401
00:22:12,626 --> 00:22:16,426
you're doing your best, Julie, but
you've got enough to worry about.
402
00:22:16,466 --> 00:22:20,146
I've tasked Professional Standards
to find out who this mole is.
403
00:22:20,186 --> 00:22:22,986
No-one on your team will even know
it's happening.
404
00:22:26,346 --> 00:22:27,626
Hiya.
405
00:22:27,666 --> 00:22:32,306
Tell you what, this file with Phil Cairns'
statement in it is a museum piece.
406
00:22:32,346 --> 00:22:34,106
Yeah. Well, it will be.
407
00:22:34,146 --> 00:22:36,346
It's shameful, it's appalling.
408
00:22:36,386 --> 00:22:38,386
They - we ha ha -
409
00:22:38,426 --> 00:22:41,146
visited the house,
they had a look in the cellar.
410
00:22:41,186 --> 00:22:44,066
They asked a few questions.
They 'found nothing'.
411
00:22:44,106 --> 00:22:49,226
That's it. He was treated like some sort of
deluded sexually-deviant teenage time-waster.
412
00:22:49,266 --> 00:22:51,666
That's going to have repercussions.
Yeah.
413
00:22:51,706 --> 00:22:53,506
But does it implicate Joe Bevan?
414
00:22:53,546 --> 00:22:55,706
Oh, God, yeah, and Eunice.
Very much so.
415
00:22:55,746 --> 00:22:57,426
What about Helen?
Well...
416
00:22:57,466 --> 00:22:59,146
That's interesting.
417
00:23:00,266 --> 00:23:03,066
How did she die?
It's impossible to tell.
418
00:23:04,506 --> 00:23:06,106
Was it them?
419
00:23:06,146 --> 00:23:09,106
We don't know. We've yet to link Joe,
forensically,
420
00:23:09,146 --> 00:23:10,946
either with Sheila's death
421
00:23:10,986 --> 00:23:13,986
or with the bodies that were buried
in the cellar, but -
422
00:23:14,026 --> 00:23:17,306
We have no reason to think it was
anyone else, at the moment.
423
00:23:17,346 --> 00:23:19,226
Those two girls got convicted.
424
00:23:19,266 --> 00:23:23,266
Who had pushed that old woman into
the canal in the wheelie bin.
425
00:23:23,306 --> 00:23:24,506
Yeah.
426
00:23:24,546 --> 00:23:26,546
13 and 14 years old.
427
00:23:29,106 --> 00:23:31,306
People think I know things.
428
00:23:31,346 --> 00:23:32,946
I didn't.
429
00:23:32,986 --> 00:23:34,986
I had no idea.
430
00:23:36,506 --> 00:23:38,506
Apart from Michael.
431
00:23:38,546 --> 00:23:40,746
We've had a few nasty phone calls
and...
432
00:23:40,786 --> 00:23:42,786
a parcel through the door.
433
00:23:44,826 --> 00:23:48,546
We do need to ask you some more
questions, Helen, when you feel able.
434
00:23:48,586 --> 00:23:51,346
Down at Oldham.
Can you not ask them here?
435
00:23:51,386 --> 00:23:53,626
It's an interview we'd need to record.
436
00:24:10,626 --> 00:24:14,186
Ma'am, Stephen Norgrove's mother and
brother are downstairs with the FLO.
437
00:24:14,226 --> 00:24:16,826
They've just been shown into
the family room. Thanks.
438
00:24:22,026 --> 00:24:23,826
You don't recognize him?
439
00:24:26,226 --> 00:24:29,106
His name is Stephen Norgrove.
440
00:24:29,146 --> 00:24:31,946
Steve? Steve Norgrove.
Does that ring any bells?
441
00:24:33,786 --> 00:24:38,346
He stayed at your house in 1974.
He was 17 years old.
442
00:24:40,426 --> 00:24:44,346
We know he was at your house
because his mother sent him a
postal order to your address.
443
00:24:44,386 --> 00:24:46,386
People came and went.
444
00:24:47,466 --> 00:24:49,466
It's a long time since.
445
00:24:53,066 --> 00:24:55,586
I want you to look carefully.
Think about it.
446
00:24:59,226 --> 00:25:01,826
We also know he was at your house
at some stage,
447
00:25:01,866 --> 00:25:04,586
because we found his body
buried in your cellar.
448
00:25:06,626 --> 00:25:08,266
I'd like to see him.
449
00:25:08,306 --> 00:25:10,706
What you need to understand, Irene,
450
00:25:10,746 --> 00:25:12,746
is that what we found
451
00:25:12,786 --> 00:25:14,586
are remains.
452
00:25:15,626 --> 00:25:17,826
I saw Stephen yesterday morning and...
453
00:25:18,906 --> 00:25:21,626
We say remains, rather than a body,
when we've...
454
00:25:21,666 --> 00:25:23,786
essentially, we've found a skeleton.
455
00:25:23,826 --> 00:25:25,626
I know that, love.
456
00:25:25,666 --> 00:25:27,746
I still want to see him.
457
00:25:27,786 --> 00:25:29,946
Of course you do.
458
00:25:29,986 --> 00:25:32,826
I'm showing you another photograph
now, Joe.
459
00:25:32,866 --> 00:25:34,866
Do you recognize this lad?
460
00:25:37,706 --> 00:25:40,186
This photograph was taken in 1976.
461
00:25:40,226 --> 00:25:42,346
His name is Phil Cairns.
462
00:25:42,386 --> 00:25:44,986
Does that mean anything to you?
Philip Cairns?
463
00:25:47,066 --> 00:25:49,666
Well, Mr. Cairns came in to see us
a few days ago.
464
00:25:49,706 --> 00:25:51,386
He says you do know him.
465
00:25:53,306 --> 00:25:56,986
Do you remember meeting him one
evening near Piccadilly station?
466
00:25:57,026 --> 00:26:00,226
It was cold, it was January,
there was snow on the ground.
467
00:26:00,266 --> 00:26:02,266
It was 1977.
468
00:26:04,066 --> 00:26:06,786
Do you remember inviting him
back to your house?
469
00:26:07,866 --> 00:26:09,666
He had no money, nowhere to go
470
00:26:09,706 --> 00:26:13,146
and you offered him a bed
for a night and a bite to eat.
471
00:26:13,186 --> 00:26:15,186
Do you remember that?
472
00:26:19,066 --> 00:26:21,066
How would you respond, Joe,
473
00:26:21,106 --> 00:26:24,306
if I told you that Mr. Cairns,
five days ago, came in here
474
00:26:24,346 --> 00:26:27,146
and told us that you
and your wife tied him up,
475
00:26:27,186 --> 00:26:30,746
fastened a belt round his head,
gagged him, stripped him naked
476
00:26:30,786 --> 00:26:34,066
and sexually assaulted him
over a period of several days?
477
00:26:34,106 --> 00:26:36,666
He's a liar.
I'm sorry?
478
00:26:36,706 --> 00:26:38,706
He's a liar.
479
00:26:40,346 --> 00:26:42,346
Are you all right, Joe?
480
00:26:45,026 --> 00:26:47,026
Has something upset you?
481
00:26:48,946 --> 00:26:50,946
What is it, Joe, that's upset you?
482
00:26:57,146 --> 00:26:58,986
Perhaps we should take a break.
483
00:27:02,106 --> 00:27:04,586
No. I'd like to know
what has upset Joe.
484
00:27:05,346 --> 00:27:10,546
He's elderly, he's tired, he's ill,
he's upset about Sheila.
485
00:27:10,586 --> 00:27:12,986
I think he needs to take a break.
486
00:27:18,066 --> 00:27:19,666
Yeah. Sure.
487
00:27:25,744 --> 00:27:27,544
You should have pushed him.
Yeah.
488
00:27:27,642 --> 00:27:30,522
I'm not criticizing you.
No. I know. You're right.
489
00:27:30,562 --> 00:27:34,082
It's your call. Essentially, we've
got him. We haven't got him.
490
00:27:34,122 --> 00:27:36,722
It's all circumstantial,
even the mattress.
491
00:27:36,762 --> 00:27:40,482
We've got two eyewitness statements.
It's fine. From 40 years ago.
492
00:27:40,522 --> 00:27:42,922
We've got a piss-head and a flake.
493
00:27:42,996 --> 00:27:44,476
No.
494
00:27:44,516 --> 00:27:46,116
It isn't fine.
495
00:27:46,156 --> 00:27:49,556
I'm sorry. I shouldn't - Look, I'm
having a bad time with Sean.
496
00:27:49,596 --> 00:27:51,076
Right.
497
00:27:51,116 --> 00:27:53,116
So I don't mess up interviews.
498
00:27:53,285 --> 00:27:55,565
I'm not saying you did, Rachel.
No, I am.
499
00:27:55,605 --> 00:27:57,205
I'm saying it.
500
00:27:58,285 --> 00:28:00,285
That wasn't an excuse.
501
00:28:00,325 --> 00:28:02,125
About Sean. I just...
502
00:28:02,165 --> 00:28:04,165
I just thought I'd mention it. OK.
503
00:28:06,925 --> 00:28:10,525
There are discrepancies. It's not
clear to me, from that statement,
504
00:28:10,565 --> 00:28:13,565
that he's implicating anyone other
than Joe and Eunice.
505
00:28:13,605 --> 00:28:17,445
He implicated Helen so unequivocally
when you interviewed him,
506
00:28:17,485 --> 00:28:21,125
he even named her, but he could have
got that from a newspaper.
507
00:28:21,165 --> 00:28:22,765
Here, it's vague.
508
00:28:22,805 --> 00:28:25,485
He mentions hearing
children's voices. Once.
509
00:28:25,525 --> 00:28:27,725
Not even necessarily in the same room.
510
00:28:27,765 --> 00:28:30,765
He didn't see them. How could he?
He was blindfolded.
511
00:28:30,805 --> 00:28:33,525
He's misremembered it.
She's coming in, Helen.
512
00:28:33,565 --> 00:28:35,565
She's following us on.
Good.
513
00:28:35,605 --> 00:28:37,845
A fascinating bit about how he escaped.
514
00:28:37,885 --> 00:28:41,285
Let's see what she has to say,
both about what's in here
515
00:28:41,325 --> 00:28:43,605
and what Phil Cairns told us
four days ago.
516
00:28:43,645 --> 00:28:46,645
Rachel needs a copy of all this,
as well. How's it going?
517
00:28:46,685 --> 00:28:48,405
I'm just giving him half an hour.
518
00:28:48,445 --> 00:28:52,845
He got very upset when we
kicked off by arresting him.
Kind of went downhill from there.
519
00:28:52,885 --> 00:28:54,885
Upset? He's a psychopath.
Get over it.
520
00:28:54,925 --> 00:28:56,765
Yeah, I know. I just...
521
00:28:56,805 --> 00:28:59,525
It seemed appropriate.
Your call.
522
00:28:59,565 --> 00:29:02,845
Phil Cairns' statement,
will you make her a copy? Sure.
523
00:29:08,965 --> 00:29:10,765
Any developments?
524
00:29:12,045 --> 00:29:14,045
He's pranged his patrol car.
525
00:29:14,085 --> 00:29:15,885
He texted me.
526
00:29:15,925 --> 00:29:17,925
Cos, obviously, that's my fault.
527
00:29:17,965 --> 00:29:20,965
Telepathic kinesis.
Is there no end to your talents?
528
00:29:21,005 --> 00:29:24,045
You're missing the action, kids.
DNA match on two more bodies.
529
00:29:24,085 --> 00:29:27,365
Oh, Helen Bartlett and her mousey
little girlfriend have turned up.
530
00:29:27,405 --> 00:29:31,965
I think I'd be bothering with
prostitutes and overdosing if I had
to sleep with that every night.
531
00:29:33,605 --> 00:29:34,805
Joke.
532
00:29:36,165 --> 00:29:37,805
Dodson's looking for you.
533
00:29:48,165 --> 00:29:52,565
Joe Bevan's solicitor is asking to speak
to the Senior Investigating Officer.
534
00:29:53,965 --> 00:29:56,965
No, that's me. Yes, I know, ma'am,
I was just...
535
00:29:57,005 --> 00:29:59,205
Do you know what it's about?
536
00:29:59,245 --> 00:30:00,725
No.
537
00:30:01,805 --> 00:30:05,805
I'm Julie Dodson.
This is DCI Murray. Superintendent.
538
00:30:10,485 --> 00:30:13,085
My client has indicated
he wants to confess
539
00:30:13,125 --> 00:30:16,725
to the murders of the boys, men,
you found buried in the cellar.
540
00:30:16,765 --> 00:30:18,765
He's written down what he believes
541
00:30:18,805 --> 00:30:23,325
are the names of the five remaining
victims you discovered down there.
542
00:30:23,365 --> 00:30:27,725
He also wants to make it clear, however,
that he did not kill Sheila, his daughter.
543
00:30:27,765 --> 00:30:30,485
He knows nothing about what happened
to her.
544
00:30:30,525 --> 00:30:35,445
And that he was coerced and brainwashed into
committing the crimes by his wife, Eunice.
545
00:30:37,125 --> 00:30:40,005
Is he prepared to make a statement
to DC Bailey? Yes.
546
00:30:40,045 --> 00:30:41,765
Now?
Yes.
547
00:30:43,805 --> 00:30:46,205
He's called Phil Cairns.
548
00:30:46,245 --> 00:30:48,045
Philip Cairns.
549
00:30:48,085 --> 00:30:51,725
You'd have been twelve at the time
that he visited your house
550
00:30:51,765 --> 00:30:54,365
in Peveril Street,
in the January of 1977.
551
00:30:54,405 --> 00:30:56,005
OK.
552
00:30:56,045 --> 00:30:58,245
He was homeless. He had no money.
553
00:30:58,285 --> 00:31:01,245
Joe, your dad, picked him up
near Piccadilly station
554
00:31:01,285 --> 00:31:03,925
and offered him food and shelter
at your house.
555
00:31:04,845 --> 00:31:06,605
Was that normal at your house?
556
00:31:07,685 --> 00:31:09,485
People... lads...
557
00:31:09,525 --> 00:31:11,245
came and went.
558
00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:14,245
I don't remember any of their names.
559
00:31:14,285 --> 00:31:17,885
I told you, they never stayed long
and I never bothered with them.
560
00:31:17,925 --> 00:31:20,125
How would you react, Helen,
if I told you
561
00:31:20,165 --> 00:31:23,405
that Phil is telling us,
and this is partially corroborated
562
00:31:23,445 --> 00:31:26,925
by a statement that he made to
the police shortly after the event,
563
00:31:26,965 --> 00:31:29,325
that he was plied with drink
by your parents
564
00:31:29,365 --> 00:31:32,965
and, when he woke up, he'd been
stripped naked, bound and gagged,
565
00:31:33,005 --> 00:31:37,005
and was sexually assaulted over
several days in a darkened room
566
00:31:37,045 --> 00:31:40,365
and, during that time,
he heard children's voices?
567
00:31:46,205 --> 00:31:48,205
There was an incident.
568
00:31:48,245 --> 00:31:49,845
Go on.
569
00:31:51,165 --> 00:31:53,765
People... came there.
570
00:31:53,805 --> 00:31:56,005
We knew that. For sex.
571
00:31:58,165 --> 00:32:00,165
There was always people.
572
00:32:00,205 --> 00:32:03,805
People paid for all sorts of stuff,
all the time.
573
00:32:08,325 --> 00:32:10,325
But, yeah.
574
00:32:10,365 --> 00:32:12,365
It could have been him.
575
00:32:12,405 --> 00:32:14,205
What could?
576
00:32:16,725 --> 00:32:18,525
One night...
577
00:32:18,565 --> 00:32:20,565
Right? ...we were in bed.
578
00:32:21,645 --> 00:32:23,125
And...
579
00:32:23,165 --> 00:32:25,885
Julie said, 'There's something
in the cellar.'
580
00:32:25,925 --> 00:32:27,925
And I... erm...
581
00:32:30,005 --> 00:32:32,525
We were kids. It could have been
when you said.
582
00:32:33,845 --> 00:32:35,845
Anyway she said...
583
00:32:38,925 --> 00:32:40,925
'It's making noises.'
584
00:32:43,165 --> 00:32:45,165
She wanted to go and see.
585
00:32:45,205 --> 00:32:47,005
I didn't.
586
00:32:49,845 --> 00:32:51,965
She'd found out where he kept the key.
587
00:32:53,045 --> 00:32:54,645
My dad...
588
00:32:54,685 --> 00:32:57,085
He didn't know we knew.
It was in a tin.
589
00:32:58,605 --> 00:33:01,005
On a shelf, under the sink,
in the kitchen.
590
00:33:03,325 --> 00:33:05,405
We weren't allowed down there. Ever.
591
00:33:08,765 --> 00:33:10,765
Anyway, they were both drunk.
592
00:33:10,805 --> 00:33:12,805
Pissed up to their eyeballs.
593
00:33:14,165 --> 00:33:16,165
Crashed out in the sitting room.
594
00:33:19,165 --> 00:33:21,165
We got this key.
595
00:33:22,765 --> 00:33:24,765
And we went down...
596
00:33:24,805 --> 00:33:26,805
into the cellar.
597
00:33:28,085 --> 00:33:30,685
We heard him... whimpering.
598
00:33:31,965 --> 00:33:33,965
It was a man.
599
00:33:35,485 --> 00:33:37,485
Like an animal. It was...
600
00:33:40,165 --> 00:33:42,165
No clothes on.
601
00:33:42,205 --> 00:33:44,205
We knew they did...
602
00:33:44,245 --> 00:33:46,245
bloody weird stuff, but this was...
603
00:33:47,325 --> 00:33:50,325
He was... dirty, like he'd been
there...
604
00:33:54,165 --> 00:33:56,165
We ran back upstairs.
605
00:33:57,245 --> 00:33:59,245
But we couldn't sleep, it was...
606
00:34:03,965 --> 00:34:05,965
And then...
607
00:34:06,005 --> 00:34:08,005
a bit later...
608
00:34:09,685 --> 00:34:11,685
She went and got a knife.
609
00:34:12,765 --> 00:34:14,765
Out of the kitchen.
610
00:34:14,805 --> 00:34:16,405
Julie.
611
00:34:17,485 --> 00:34:19,485
And we went back down there.
612
00:34:20,565 --> 00:34:22,565
I... stood on the stairs.
613
00:34:22,605 --> 00:34:26,245
The cellar stairs. I was frightened,
I couldn't go any further.
614
00:34:26,285 --> 00:34:29,885
I was frightened my dad would find
us and lock us in with him.
615
00:34:29,925 --> 00:34:31,925
She cut the rope.
616
00:34:31,965 --> 00:34:33,565
Julie.
617
00:34:33,605 --> 00:34:37,605
The rope that was tying his hands
behind his back and his legs...
618
00:34:37,645 --> 00:34:39,445
were tied, too,
619
00:34:39,485 --> 00:34:41,485
but then he started...
620
00:34:42,565 --> 00:34:45,685
flailing around, trying to get
this thing off his face.
621
00:34:45,725 --> 00:34:47,325
And...
622
00:34:48,645 --> 00:34:51,125
We ran. We ran.
We ran back upstairs.
623
00:34:51,165 --> 00:34:52,765
I...
624
00:34:52,805 --> 00:34:54,805
dropped the torch.
625
00:34:54,845 --> 00:34:58,165
We left the door open, because
we wanted him to run, too.
626
00:35:02,325 --> 00:35:04,325
Was that him?
627
00:35:04,365 --> 00:35:08,485
That would tie in with his description
of how he managed to get away. Yes.
628
00:35:10,165 --> 00:35:11,965
Is that...
629
00:35:13,125 --> 00:35:15,925
what he did to the ones
you've found buried?
630
00:35:15,965 --> 00:35:18,765
There is some evidence
that's what happened.
631
00:35:18,805 --> 00:35:20,605
Oh, my God.
632
00:35:22,885 --> 00:35:24,885
But not Michael? That wasn't...
633
00:35:24,925 --> 00:35:26,925
That was an accident.
634
00:35:26,965 --> 00:35:30,965
I'm afraid there's evidence that is
what happened to Michael
635
00:35:31,005 --> 00:35:33,845
and... that it wasn't an accident.
636
00:35:33,885 --> 00:35:35,685
Oh, God.
637
00:35:35,725 --> 00:35:37,525
The bastard.
638
00:35:38,965 --> 00:35:41,765
I didn't know he'd done that
to other people.
639
00:35:45,125 --> 00:35:47,125
What about Sheila?
640
00:35:49,125 --> 00:35:53,605
Of course the most shocking thing is not what
they saw, it's the fact that they saw it.
641
00:35:53,645 --> 00:35:57,565
She might be adamant that she had no idea
other people were buried down there.
642
00:35:57,605 --> 00:36:00,405
Even if we've got no evidence
to contradict that,
643
00:36:00,445 --> 00:36:06,325
the fact remains that, as an adult,
she knew someone had been
imprisoned and sexually tortured down there
644
00:36:06,365 --> 00:36:09,125
and that her brother had been killed
and buried.
645
00:36:09,165 --> 00:36:14,165
As an adult, anyone in their
right mind, must realize they
have an obligation to tell the police.
646
00:36:14,205 --> 00:36:17,605
Not legally. Morally. Yeah, well,
that's not our bag, is it?
647
00:36:17,645 --> 00:36:20,525
No-one else died after Michael.
We don't know that.
648
00:36:20,565 --> 00:36:24,445
All we know is no-one else was buried in
the cellar. That's not the point, anyway.
649
00:36:24,485 --> 00:36:28,645
If she'd said something sooner, Irene
Norgrove and all these other parents,
650
00:36:28,685 --> 00:36:32,725
people you're going to have some
pretty distressing conversations with,
651
00:36:32,765 --> 00:36:35,445
would have been able to move on
by now, years ago.
652
00:36:35,485 --> 00:36:38,965
But the fact also remains that she
did come forward. Eventually.
653
00:36:39,005 --> 00:36:42,805
Voluntarily. Selflessly. Look what's
happened to her since she did.
654
00:36:42,845 --> 00:36:46,045
People want blood.
They've put shit through her door.
655
00:36:47,765 --> 00:36:50,365
Do you think he did murder
other people?
656
00:36:50,405 --> 00:36:53,205
It's odd for someone like that
to just stop.
657
00:36:53,245 --> 00:36:55,285
Er, Rob!
Ma'am?
658
00:36:55,325 --> 00:36:57,245
Briefing room, please, ten minutes.
659
00:36:57,285 --> 00:37:00,285
We've all earned a decent night's
sleep after this breakthrough.
660
00:37:00,325 --> 00:37:03,605
Still going to ask the CPS to drop
the unlawful burial charges?
661
00:37:03,645 --> 00:37:05,845
They won't.
I've had the conversation.
662
00:37:05,885 --> 00:37:09,085
The only thing I can do is
fast-track it and ask for leniency.
663
00:37:10,165 --> 00:37:14,405
I'm not convinced he didn't murder Sheila.
I don't think any of us are. Are we?
664
00:37:14,445 --> 00:37:18,005
He's playing games. Well, yeah,
of course he is, he's a psychopath.
665
00:37:18,045 --> 00:37:21,365
So, essentially, he's blaming Eunice
for everything.
666
00:37:21,405 --> 00:37:26,005
I did remind him that, initially,
he blamed Eunice and Helen
and Julie for Michael's death.
667
00:37:26,045 --> 00:37:27,325
But...
668
00:37:27,365 --> 00:37:29,365
Well, this is what we're wondering.
669
00:37:29,405 --> 00:37:32,205
He knows we've got irrefutable
forensic evidence
670
00:37:32,245 --> 00:37:34,245
against him on Eunice, right.
671
00:37:34,285 --> 00:37:36,685
So, if he can blame Eunice
for everything,
672
00:37:36,725 --> 00:37:41,045
coercing him, forcing him, brainwashing
him, whatever, into doing things,
673
00:37:41,085 --> 00:37:46,205
then, A, he can claim diminished
responsibility for murdering the
seven boys in the cellar
674
00:37:46,245 --> 00:37:50,165
and, B, he can claim the same when he
goes to court for murdering Eunice.
675
00:37:50,205 --> 00:37:54,245
He can claim he ended the life of
this woman who bullied him for years,
676
00:37:54,285 --> 00:37:57,725
this woman who was evil enough
to murder her own daughter.
677
00:37:57,765 --> 00:37:59,365
Who would believe him?
678
00:37:59,405 --> 00:38:03,125
A jury. A doddery little old man.
A bleeding-hearts-brigade jury.
679
00:38:03,165 --> 00:38:06,245
We've got to wait for something
from the lab on Sheila.
680
00:38:06,285 --> 00:38:08,285
What if there isn't anything?
681
00:38:09,725 --> 00:38:11,205
Right!
682
00:38:11,245 --> 00:38:14,725
Well done. There's a drink waiting
for everyone over the road.
683
00:38:17,485 --> 00:38:19,045
What do you want?
684
00:38:19,085 --> 00:38:21,085
Lager?
No. Bitter. Two bitters.
685
00:38:22,245 --> 00:38:24,045
Rachel!
686
00:38:31,219 --> 00:38:34,139
This had better be good.
Bringing my bloody mother?
687
00:38:34,179 --> 00:38:36,779
I didn't bring her. She was here.
I didn't want her here.
688
00:38:36,819 --> 00:38:39,219
You just turned up and she was
already here? Yeah.
689
00:38:39,259 --> 00:38:40,859
I don't believe you.
690
00:38:40,899 --> 00:38:42,899
Well, whatever, it's irrelevant.
691
00:38:42,939 --> 00:38:45,339
I'm not stopping.
I just wanted to say...
692
00:38:46,859 --> 00:38:48,499
I know you're mad.
693
00:38:48,539 --> 00:38:50,899
You are mad, but...
694
00:38:52,339 --> 00:38:54,819
Look, I'm not prepared to accept
695
00:38:54,859 --> 00:39:00,059
that this can possibly have gone so
wrong so quickly, because it hasn't.
696
00:39:01,579 --> 00:39:05,299
It's all in your head. You're feeling
trapped and you don't need to.
697
00:39:07,299 --> 00:39:09,299
And when you realize that...
698
00:39:11,219 --> 00:39:13,219
then you know where I'll be.
699
00:39:16,099 --> 00:39:18,099
Just... call me.
700
00:39:30,659 --> 00:39:32,659
Evening, cowboy. What...?
701
00:39:33,739 --> 00:39:35,739
What are you doing here?
702
00:39:35,779 --> 00:39:37,779
Nothing. I was just...
703
00:39:38,779 --> 00:39:42,219
Well, I pop in now and again.
It's the only time I get to see...
704
00:39:42,259 --> 00:39:44,059
Fanny Alice.
705
00:39:44,099 --> 00:39:45,779
Yeah. Is it?
706
00:39:45,819 --> 00:39:48,419
What are you drinking?
No, no, I'm fine.
707
00:39:49,619 --> 00:39:51,939
You couldn't lend me a few quid,
could you?
708
00:39:51,979 --> 00:39:53,699
How do you mean?
709
00:39:53,739 --> 00:39:55,339
For a drink.
710
00:39:55,379 --> 00:39:56,819
Say...
711
00:39:57,579 --> 00:39:59,139
40 quid?
712
00:39:59,179 --> 00:40:01,459
40 quid?
For a taxi.
713
00:40:01,499 --> 00:40:03,019
You know.
714
00:40:03,059 --> 00:40:04,539
Later.
715
00:40:04,579 --> 00:40:06,699
Oh, well, I would, but -
716
00:40:06,739 --> 00:40:08,739
Ey, do you remember that night?
717
00:40:08,779 --> 00:40:10,379
Yeah.
718
00:40:11,499 --> 00:40:14,299
God, that bitch of a son of a bitch
of a policewoman!
719
00:40:14,339 --> 00:40:16,419
She's just standing just over there.
720
00:40:16,459 --> 00:40:21,179
So if you could just see your way to
lending me a few bob, then, Pete...
721
00:40:21,219 --> 00:40:23,699
I'll... hit the road.
722
00:40:29,259 --> 00:40:31,059
Right. Right.
723
00:40:35,259 --> 00:40:37,659
There's 30 quid.
That's all I've got on me.
724
00:40:37,699 --> 00:40:39,539
Ta.
725
00:40:39,579 --> 00:40:41,579
How are you keeping, anyway?
726
00:40:41,619 --> 00:40:43,219
Yeah, good.
727
00:40:43,259 --> 00:40:46,979
Right. Well, I'll be loving you
and leaving you, then.
728
00:40:47,979 --> 00:40:49,459
Yeah.
729
00:40:57,299 --> 00:40:59,299
Come to Daddy, you little sod.
730
00:41:02,899 --> 00:41:05,059
Do you want a lift home?
731
00:41:05,099 --> 00:41:06,659
Hello, love!
732
00:41:11,979 --> 00:41:13,979
I'm driving you home.
733
00:41:22,819 --> 00:41:24,819
She's got him!
734
00:41:26,299 --> 00:41:27,859
We got him.
735
00:41:27,899 --> 00:41:30,139
She got him.
What? Just now.
736
00:41:30,179 --> 00:41:33,579
What's up. Oh, it was poetry.
You could not have invented it.
737
00:41:33,619 --> 00:41:35,859
Just one of those moments.
Where's Mrs. Dodson?
738
00:41:35,899 --> 00:41:37,459
What happened?
We've got him.
739
00:41:37,499 --> 00:41:40,339
She's with Karen Zalinski.
He did that thing. What thing?
740
00:41:40,379 --> 00:41:42,179
That stupid thing.
741
00:41:42,219 --> 00:41:45,139
It's a mystery to me
how she could have done that.
742
00:41:45,179 --> 00:41:47,379
Butchered her own daughter.
743
00:41:48,619 --> 00:41:51,259
I said, 'How do you mean, Joe,
butchered?'
744
00:41:51,299 --> 00:41:53,699
And he said, 'Cutting her head off.'
745
00:41:53,739 --> 00:41:57,539
So, I said, 'Well, I never told you
that anyone cut her head off, Joe.'
746
00:41:57,579 --> 00:42:00,939
And then that look, that thing
that goes across their eyes.
747
00:42:00,979 --> 00:42:04,099
When they realize they've just put
their foot right in it
748
00:42:04,139 --> 00:42:07,099
and you've got them and they know
they're going down forever.
749
00:42:07,139 --> 00:42:10,659
That's when he called me...
It rhymes with stunt, runt, brunt.
750
00:42:10,699 --> 00:42:13,139
Let this be a lesson to you all.
751
00:42:13,179 --> 00:42:17,819
Psychopaths, clever, but never
as bloody clever as they like to
think they are. Well done, kid.
752
00:42:17,859 --> 00:42:20,939
I did nothing. I was in the right
place at the right time.
753
00:42:22,139 --> 00:42:23,859
Which makes a change.
754
00:42:39,419 --> 00:42:41,419
What's odd is that he ever stopped.
755
00:42:41,459 --> 00:42:44,779
Or appeared to. That's what we
couldn't work out yesterday.
756
00:42:44,819 --> 00:42:46,819
No. It's not that odd.
No, it is.
757
00:42:46,859 --> 00:42:50,899
Psychopaths. They just carry on
pushing the envelope, taking risks.
758
00:42:50,939 --> 00:42:55,219
That's generally how they end up
making a mistake. They get complacent.
759
00:42:55,259 --> 00:42:59,219
Who have you been having that
conversation with? Dodson. Gill. Pete.
760
00:43:00,059 --> 00:43:01,259
What?
761
00:43:01,299 --> 00:43:04,499
He was beaten up in October 1977,
like really badly.
762
00:43:04,539 --> 00:43:09,259
I read his medical records. God,
I'm amazed that nobody else has.
763
00:43:09,299 --> 00:43:11,019
He was hospitalized.
764
00:43:11,059 --> 00:43:14,779
Fractured skull, fractured pelvis,
a broken arm, broken nose,
765
00:43:14,819 --> 00:43:16,619
mashed-up scrotum.
766
00:43:16,659 --> 00:43:19,739
I mean, someone kicked the shit out
of him - literally.
767
00:43:19,779 --> 00:43:21,939
I'd like to think it was Phil Cairns.
768
00:43:21,979 --> 00:43:24,779
Only I don't want to embarrass him
by asking him.
769
00:43:24,819 --> 00:43:26,819
You're so clever, aren't you?
770
00:43:26,859 --> 00:43:29,739
I'm telling you,
you'll be calling me ma'am one day.
771
00:43:29,779 --> 00:43:33,619
You're going to have to pass your
sergeant's exams first, though, eh.
772
00:43:33,659 --> 00:43:34,939
Oh!
773
00:43:34,979 --> 00:43:37,299
You're so funny, Janet.
Yep.
774
00:43:39,819 --> 00:43:42,499
I tell you what, I'm not looking
forward to this.
775
00:43:46,939 --> 00:43:48,339
Hello.
776
00:43:48,379 --> 00:43:50,979
Louise, it's Janet and Rachel
from the MMP.
777
00:43:51,019 --> 00:43:52,619
Can we come in?
778
00:43:55,099 --> 00:43:56,699
Helen.
779
00:43:57,779 --> 00:43:59,779
How are you feeling?
I'm all right.
780
00:44:01,259 --> 00:44:03,259
Do you want to sit down?
781
00:44:04,339 --> 00:44:05,939
Why?
782
00:44:07,859 --> 00:44:09,659
I'm sorry to have to tell you
783
00:44:09,699 --> 00:44:13,459
that you are being formally charged
with preventing a lawful burial.
784
00:44:13,499 --> 00:44:15,099
But...
785
00:44:15,139 --> 00:44:16,939
No. Hang on.
786
00:44:16,979 --> 00:44:19,379
We had an understanding.
We had a deal.
787
00:44:19,419 --> 00:44:21,659
I know. I'm sorry.
We did what we could.
788
00:44:21,699 --> 00:44:24,619
I did explain that we couldn't make
any guarantees.
789
00:44:24,659 --> 00:44:27,659
It's a decision that's been taken
over our heads.
790
00:44:31,939 --> 00:44:34,059
Do you want to get your coat?
Fuck you.
791
00:44:35,339 --> 00:44:37,339
No. I mean, really.
792
00:44:37,379 --> 00:44:39,579
Fuck you!
Helen! Helen!
793
00:44:43,179 --> 00:44:44,659
OK.
61951
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