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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,162 WWW.MY-SUBS.CO 1 00:01:11,783 --> 00:01:15,850 - You're gonna be all right, mate. - They're in there! Others. 2 00:01:38,623 --> 00:01:41,623 They're in there! 3 00:01:46,823 --> 00:01:49,383 Clear! Clear! 4 00:01:52,583 --> 00:01:55,543 Clear! 5 00:02:15,623 --> 00:02:19,090 This one's still alive. Get a medic! 6 00:02:28,583 --> 00:02:31,662 In this country, although we pride ourselves on our freedom of speech, 7 00:02:31,663 --> 00:02:34,223 it is not an enshrined right. 8 00:02:34,263 --> 00:02:37,733 Now, Shelby Brookes was correctly convicted 9 00:02:37,783 --> 00:02:41,582 for stirring up hatred against persons on religious grounds, 10 00:02:41,583 --> 00:02:45,703 contrary to the Public Order Act 1986, Section 29 (b), 11 00:02:45,743 --> 00:02:50,373 as inserted by the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006. 12 00:02:50,423 --> 00:02:53,893 The evidence presented at this trial 13 00:02:53,943 --> 00:02:58,223 clearly demonstrates that he intended to stir up such hatred. 14 00:02:59,223 --> 00:03:03,773 And in one particularly offensive passage, and I quote, 15 00:03:03,823 --> 00:03:06,183 "Islam is a backward religion. 16 00:03:06,223 --> 00:03:08,622 "It's highly dangerous and intolerant. 17 00:03:08,623 --> 00:03:11,703 "Everyone knows it, but we're becoming a state 18 00:03:11,743 --> 00:03:15,302 "where ordinary British people are scared to take action..." 19 00:03:15,303 --> 00:03:18,773 "...like proper citizens." Unquote. 20 00:03:18,823 --> 00:03:21,142 Now, these words may seem harmless, 21 00:03:21,143 --> 00:03:23,382 but spoken at the end of a rally in Bradford, 22 00:03:23,383 --> 00:03:26,223 they were deliberately provocative 23 00:03:26,263 --> 00:03:30,023 and led to rioting. 24 00:03:31,943 --> 00:03:35,823 I'm Sir Ian Rochester, Permanent Secretary of the DCA. 25 00:03:35,863 --> 00:03:40,493 Now, I ask you to give proper weight to the statutory protections, 26 00:03:40,543 --> 00:03:42,933 as inserted by 29 (j) of the Act. 27 00:03:42,983 --> 00:03:46,023 This guarantees that none of the provisions 28 00:03:46,063 --> 00:03:48,102 to which Sir Alan has directed Your Lordships 29 00:03:48,103 --> 00:03:52,222 can ever be interpreted in such a way as to prohibit or restrict discussion, 30 00:03:52,223 --> 00:03:55,902 criticism, ridicule or even abuse of particular religions 31 00:03:55,903 --> 00:04:00,023 or the beliefs of their adherents. 32 00:04:00,063 --> 00:04:04,063 Attacking an individual, that is a different matter. 33 00:04:04,103 --> 00:04:06,413 Shelby Brookes didn't do that. 34 00:04:06,463 --> 00:04:09,582 He has a protected right, like every other person, 35 00:04:09,583 --> 00:04:13,703 to challenge or condemn any belief system or religion. 36 00:04:13,743 --> 00:04:19,583 Despite legislation put in place to protect his right to criticise ideas, 37 00:04:19,623 --> 00:04:23,093 the police chose to be provocative in arresting him. 38 00:04:23,143 --> 00:04:29,493 So, unless and until we proscribe Mr Brookes's party, 39 00:04:29,543 --> 00:04:36,783 we must defend to our dying breath his right to speak freely, within the law, 40 00:04:36,823 --> 00:04:38,943 regardless of who that offends. 41 00:04:38,983 --> 00:04:41,343 Thank you, Mrs Mills. 42 00:04:41,383 --> 00:04:45,102 Would you defend your client's right to deny the Holocaust? 43 00:04:45,103 --> 00:04:48,383 He made such a statement on one occasion. 44 00:04:48,423 --> 00:04:53,293 As offensive as that idea is, the law must defend his right to express it. 45 00:04:53,343 --> 00:04:57,133 - The alternative is dictatorship. - Hm. 46 00:04:57,183 --> 00:05:00,183 We shall adjourn to consider ourjudgment. 47 00:05:00,223 --> 00:05:02,583 All rise. 48 00:05:08,383 --> 00:05:09,863 Good morning? 49 00:05:09,903 --> 00:05:13,342 Well, I should feel more sanguine about it if Deed wasn't on the bench. 50 00:05:13,343 --> 00:05:16,942 - Did you see the mob outside? - And why the police allow it... 51 00:05:16,943 --> 00:05:20,982 Oh, yes, the Cabinet's braced for trouble if this... if this appeal succeeds. 52 00:05:20,983 --> 00:05:22,662 Deed won't let that influence him. 53 00:05:22,663 --> 00:05:24,702 I thought he'd been sent off to The Hague. 54 00:05:24,703 --> 00:05:27,542 There's no work for him there. He's at liberty to sit back here. 55 00:05:27,543 --> 00:05:29,583 Mrs Mills, your feelings? 56 00:05:29,623 --> 00:05:31,662 I think it's shameful the Government ever brought this case. 57 00:05:31,663 --> 00:05:33,263 What else could I expect 58 00:05:33,303 --> 00:05:37,570 from that radical bunch of loonies that she's joined forces with? 59 00:05:38,503 --> 00:05:41,263 His opinions are odious, 60 00:05:41,303 --> 00:05:45,702 but in a democratic society, is it really necessary that we zip his mouth? 61 00:05:45,703 --> 00:05:49,542 Well, Article 10 of the European Convention forbids us to do so. 62 00:05:49,543 --> 00:05:52,182 Not entirely. It restricts his rights sometimes, 63 00:05:52,183 --> 00:05:56,062 for public safety and for the protection of the rights of others. 64 00:05:56,063 --> 00:05:57,503 Brookes is a racist. 65 00:05:57,543 --> 00:06:01,223 He hates blacks and Muslims and gays and Jews, 66 00:06:01,263 --> 00:06:03,302 and people with six toes, for all I know. 67 00:06:03,303 --> 00:06:05,742 And, despite the location of his speech, 68 00:06:05,743 --> 00:06:08,782 Brookes was careful to attack only the religion. 69 00:06:08,783 --> 00:06:13,103 Can we permit a religious creed to be immune from criticism 70 00:06:13,143 --> 00:06:15,053 simply because its adherents 71 00:06:15,103 --> 00:06:18,942 claim that that criticism is insulting? 72 00:06:18,943 --> 00:06:22,142 We have to try to get behind the words, Joe, to intent. 73 00:06:22,143 --> 00:06:24,222 Wasn't Islam being held up in hatred? 74 00:06:24,223 --> 00:06:30,543 There is European jurisprudence, Jersild versus Denmark 1955. 75 00:06:30,583 --> 00:06:35,533 Ajournalist was convicted of aiding and abetting racial hatred. 76 00:06:35,583 --> 00:06:38,303 He had interviewed three neo-Nazis. 77 00:06:38,343 --> 00:06:40,493 On overturning the conviction, 78 00:06:40,543 --> 00:06:45,013 the court ruled that it would seriously hamper press freedom 79 00:06:45,063 --> 00:06:47,622 were he prevented from disseminating such views. 80 00:06:47,623 --> 00:06:51,093 This still ignores Article 17. 81 00:06:51,143 --> 00:06:54,502 We can't interpret any right in the Convention in any way 82 00:06:54,503 --> 00:06:57,222 that allows Brookes to destroy any of its other rights and freedoms. 83 00:06:57,223 --> 00:06:59,343 Brookes was following the law 84 00:06:59,383 --> 00:07:03,422 by not attacking the security of the Muslims under the Convention, 85 00:07:03,423 --> 00:07:05,573 only their ideas. 86 00:07:05,623 --> 00:07:08,062 Ideas lead to physical reality, Joe, violence. 87 00:07:08,063 --> 00:07:10,422 I can't believe that Brookes wasn't aware of that. 88 00:07:10,423 --> 00:07:13,942 There's very little we can do about it under the law as it now stands. 89 00:07:13,943 --> 00:07:21,133 In a full democracy, ideas alone don't undermine anyone's peace, John. 90 00:07:21,183 --> 00:07:24,982 - Do we live in a full democracy? - That's why we need these protections. 91 00:07:24,983 --> 00:07:29,502 How would you feel if your core religious beliefs were held up for ridicule 92 00:07:29,503 --> 00:07:32,742 by somebody claiming to represent the white majority? 93 00:07:32,743 --> 00:07:35,213 I'd want the blasphemer stoned. 94 00:07:35,263 --> 00:07:38,462 We'll all be stoned if we overturn the lower court and release him. 95 00:07:38,463 --> 00:07:40,343 Now, there's a dilemma. 96 00:07:40,383 --> 00:07:43,982 Should we uphold a wrong judgment for fear of reprisals? 97 00:07:43,983 --> 00:07:46,783 I'm still not convinced it was wrong. 98 00:07:46,823 --> 00:07:53,143 Then we must each take our own counsel and meet at a later date. 14 days? 99 00:07:57,543 --> 00:07:59,853 11 people shot in Basra 100 00:07:59,903 --> 00:08:03,222 is hardly huge in relation to the number of people killed there, Ian. 101 00:08:03,223 --> 00:08:06,982 These were civilians killed by a British soldier. Four of them were children. 102 00:08:06,983 --> 00:08:10,702 - Well, three were terrorists, surely? - That was the Army's original position. 103 00:08:10,703 --> 00:08:13,422 The Iraqi government now claims none were. 104 00:08:13,423 --> 00:08:17,022 - Huh! Well, how reliable is that? - They want the case heard in Iraq. 105 00:08:17,023 --> 00:08:20,422 Well, the PM might go along with it as part of our exit strategy. 106 00:08:20,423 --> 00:08:22,253 Pity poor Private Clark. 107 00:08:22,303 --> 00:08:24,453 Have we got an exit strategy? 108 00:08:26,183 --> 00:08:28,862 - The Army wants a court martial. - Well, they won't get it. 109 00:08:28,863 --> 00:08:33,422 Not even with the Secretary of State for Defence arguing for it in Cabinet. 110 00:08:33,423 --> 00:08:34,903 Taxi! 111 00:08:34,943 --> 00:08:37,463 Er... Garrick Club, please. 112 00:08:42,303 --> 00:08:44,293 Sir Joseph. 113 00:08:58,623 --> 00:09:02,142 - Did you recognise the woman, Joe? - Well, do you think it's serious? 114 00:09:02,143 --> 00:09:04,782 The Home Office can't treat it as anything other than serious. 115 00:09:04,783 --> 00:09:06,422 But I barely saw the woman. 116 00:09:06,423 --> 00:09:08,862 You'll all have to have round-the-clock protection. 117 00:09:08,863 --> 00:09:11,903 As long as she's got good legs! 118 00:09:11,943 --> 00:09:13,743 Ooh, yeah! 119 00:10:00,743 --> 00:10:02,943 What are Sir John's routines? 120 00:10:02,983 --> 00:10:06,302 I keep his diary quite secure. You'll have to ask him. 121 00:10:06,303 --> 00:10:08,303 This is not helping your boss. 122 00:10:08,343 --> 00:10:12,462 I'm beginning to think this is a move by the Lord Chancellor to restrict me. 123 00:10:12,463 --> 00:10:15,502 We can't take any risks. We're taking it very seriously, sir. 124 00:10:15,503 --> 00:10:17,542 It was Sir Joe Channing that was threatened. 125 00:10:17,543 --> 00:10:20,582 - Yeah, I've been assigned to your staff. - I don't think Mrs Cooper needs any help. 126 00:10:20,583 --> 00:10:23,622 I'm sure you wouldn't like it if Mrs Cooper opened a letter addressed to you, 127 00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:25,223 and it exploded. 128 00:10:25,263 --> 00:10:28,783 I wouldn't like it any better if it happened to you. 129 00:10:29,823 --> 00:10:32,622 All the while you're here, you must report to Mrs Cooper. 130 00:10:32,623 --> 00:10:34,582 - Sir, I really think... - Yes, yes, all right. 131 00:10:34,583 --> 00:10:38,717 I'm sure you're very good at what you do, but so is Mrs Cooper. 132 00:10:44,383 --> 00:10:46,382 - Is he always so difficult? - Huh! 133 00:10:46,383 --> 00:10:49,662 - I will need to know his movements. - I wish I knew them myself. 134 00:10:49,663 --> 00:10:52,862 - He has lots of girlfriends. - I wouldn't know about that. 135 00:10:52,863 --> 00:10:55,022 Is he sleeping with the barrister, Mrs Mills? 136 00:10:55,023 --> 00:10:58,662 - Is that anyone's business but his? - He could be at risk. 137 00:10:58,663 --> 00:11:02,373 Look, we have to ensure his safety without his knowing. 138 00:11:02,423 --> 00:11:05,062 He's in court on another appeal this afternoon. 139 00:11:05,063 --> 00:11:08,342 Is it likely to attract a lot of the general public? 140 00:11:08,343 --> 00:11:11,262 The status of electronic bank drafts in the law of theft? 141 00:11:11,263 --> 00:11:13,622 Yeah, they'll be queuing down The Strand(!) 142 00:11:13,623 --> 00:11:17,757 Afterwards, he's meeting Mrs Mills. They're fencing at the gym. 143 00:11:23,503 --> 00:11:28,583 I don't care how stable a trial in Baghdad makes those rag-heads look...! 144 00:11:28,623 --> 00:11:31,462 Sounds like the Secretary of State for Defence is adamant, Percy. 145 00:11:31,463 --> 00:11:33,142 Ready to punch someone, I'd say. 146 00:11:33,143 --> 00:11:35,183 ...Our boys deserve better! 147 00:11:35,223 --> 00:11:38,582 The proper course is for the Army to court-martial Private Clark. 148 00:11:38,583 --> 00:11:40,062 The Iraqis won't budge. 149 00:11:40,063 --> 00:11:43,702 We wrest the country back from a madman. 150 00:11:43,703 --> 00:11:47,742 - Now they imagine they're a democracy. - More people voted in Iraq than here. 151 00:11:47,743 --> 00:11:49,542 Well, you know the PM's view, Martin. 152 00:11:49,543 --> 00:11:52,942 It'll help stabilise Iraq if the courts are at least seen to be functioning. 153 00:11:52,943 --> 00:11:56,142 But the troops on the ground would feel they have no protection until we exit. 154 00:11:56,143 --> 00:11:59,182 The longer we delay the functioning of their administration, 155 00:11:59,183 --> 00:12:02,262 the longer that exit will take, General. 156 00:12:02,263 --> 00:12:05,662 A trial in Iraq would be seen as a sellout. 157 00:12:05,663 --> 00:12:07,997 Even more of our lads would desert. 158 00:12:08,023 --> 00:12:10,783 No-one's selling them out, Andy. 159 00:12:10,823 --> 00:12:14,023 I'll fight this one in public if necessary. 160 00:12:14,063 --> 00:12:16,130 See what the electorate thinks. 161 00:12:25,423 --> 00:12:28,222 The police tramped through my apartment today. 162 00:12:28,223 --> 00:12:30,742 Checking on security in case you visit me. 163 00:12:30,743 --> 00:12:32,653 That was a bit presumptuous. 164 00:12:33,703 --> 00:12:35,982 I think it provided them with an excuse. 165 00:12:35,983 --> 00:12:39,262 Because of my relationship with Radical Lawyers for Justice. 166 00:12:39,263 --> 00:12:42,742 The police have become an arm of government. Nobody seems to care. 167 00:12:42,743 --> 00:12:46,262 Well, you'd better start caring. You might need to rely on them for your security. 168 00:12:46,263 --> 00:12:48,733 I can't take that seriously. 169 00:12:52,061 --> 00:12:54,701 They did ask about us. 170 00:12:54,741 --> 00:12:57,301 What did you tell 'em? 171 00:12:57,341 --> 00:13:00,621 - That I can never be with you. - Why? 172 00:13:01,701 --> 00:13:04,500 What's that all about? I thought life was good. 173 00:13:04,501 --> 00:13:07,381 Yeah. It is for you, John. 174 00:13:08,901 --> 00:13:11,580 It's like you can't be touched on any level. 175 00:13:11,581 --> 00:13:13,340 Is this why you've hooked up with Radical Lawyers? 176 00:13:13,341 --> 00:13:15,571 No, that was a good offer. 177 00:13:15,621 --> 00:13:18,420 In legal circles, it's self-immolation. You could have been a judge. 178 00:13:18,421 --> 00:13:20,860 Yeah, and then I'd be unassailable too, and I don't want that. 179 00:13:20,861 --> 00:13:23,380 Jo, come on. Why are you doing this? Don't do this. 180 00:13:23,381 --> 00:13:25,860 Because I don't like the way I'm living my life, John. 181 00:13:25,861 --> 00:13:27,980 - I want to change it. - Is this helping? 182 00:13:27,981 --> 00:13:29,940 Excuse me, but who are you to question that? 183 00:13:29,941 --> 00:13:32,500 If you get close to this lot, you'll never be a judge. 184 00:13:32,501 --> 00:13:34,660 What difference could I make on the bench, anyway? 185 00:13:34,661 --> 00:13:37,460 Mm-hm? And if you're stopped from being a barrister? 186 00:13:37,461 --> 00:13:39,821 Has anyone threatened that? 187 00:13:39,861 --> 00:13:42,941 This new set is totally lopsided, 188 00:13:42,981 --> 00:13:47,061 totally political. They ignore all principles of objectivity. 189 00:13:47,101 --> 00:13:49,540 No, they believe in what they're doing, 190 00:13:49,541 --> 00:13:52,780 and that is more than can be said for most lawyers. 191 00:13:52,781 --> 00:13:56,981 Don't you use them as a stick to beat me with. 192 00:13:57,021 --> 00:13:59,661 We've got too much history for that. 193 00:13:59,701 --> 00:14:02,701 And don't you manipulate me, John. 194 00:14:04,821 --> 00:14:07,380 I can't talk to you any more. I can't reach you. 195 00:14:07,381 --> 00:14:11,771 You just... you just take a position and you don't shift. 196 00:14:11,821 --> 00:14:14,541 A bomb is probably all that'll move you. 197 00:15:16,781 --> 00:15:18,821 It is an outrage. 198 00:15:18,861 --> 00:15:20,620 The British are denying us justice 199 00:15:20,621 --> 00:15:24,088 by refusing to allow us to try Private Clark in Iraq. 200 00:15:24,101 --> 00:15:26,740 Instead, they are insisting on The Hague. 201 00:15:26,741 --> 00:15:28,780 Yeah, I've been following the public row 202 00:15:28,781 --> 00:15:30,900 between the British PM and the Army Minister. 203 00:15:30,901 --> 00:15:33,540 This soldier must be tried on Iraqi soil. 204 00:15:33,541 --> 00:15:37,980 That might be risky, Mr Ambassador. It suggests you want a lynch party. 205 00:15:37,981 --> 00:15:40,051 We want only justice. 206 00:15:40,101 --> 00:15:44,140 But The Hague is the perfect venue. Politically sophisticated. 207 00:15:44,141 --> 00:15:49,061 Yes, but can the International Criminal Court deliverjustice for Iraq? 208 00:15:49,101 --> 00:15:53,651 I will prosecute personally. Let's talk to Claude Previn. 209 00:15:53,701 --> 00:15:56,781 It is still a trial in English for the English. 210 00:15:56,821 --> 00:16:02,341 Given France's consistent opposition to the war, you need have no concerns. 211 00:16:02,381 --> 00:16:07,661 Iraq must make a formal request under the Statute of Rome, Article 13. 212 00:16:09,101 --> 00:16:12,140 We would like this case, monsieur. N'est-ce pas, Marie? 213 00:16:12,141 --> 00:16:15,100 We would make sure the soldier was found guilty. 214 00:16:15,101 --> 00:16:17,140 The consequences of their illegal war. 215 00:16:17,141 --> 00:16:19,820 - Claude? - If only we could fight that battle. 216 00:16:19,821 --> 00:16:22,581 I will talk... to our Justice Minister. 217 00:16:22,621 --> 00:16:24,060 As far as the Army's concerned, 218 00:16:24,061 --> 00:16:26,660 the International Criminal Court is little better than Iraq. 219 00:16:26,661 --> 00:16:28,061 Hardly, General. 220 00:16:28,101 --> 00:16:30,540 The soldiers on the ground won't notice any difference. 221 00:16:30,541 --> 00:16:33,020 And how many more desertions can we sustain? 222 00:16:33,021 --> 00:16:35,251 3,000 to date. 223 00:16:35,301 --> 00:16:39,540 It's out of our hands now. We are official signatories to the ICC, after all. 224 00:16:39,541 --> 00:16:41,260 Some means must be found to block this. 225 00:16:41,261 --> 00:16:44,620 If we don't, soldiers who don't go AWOL will avoid taking action 226 00:16:44,621 --> 00:16:46,620 for fear of being made a political football. 227 00:16:46,621 --> 00:16:49,661 This is part of our exit strategy. 228 00:16:49,701 --> 00:16:53,011 What exit strategy? 229 00:16:54,301 --> 00:16:58,901 Well, I, er... I suppose we must get out sooner rather than later. 230 00:17:00,021 --> 00:17:03,900 Then we must pre-empt a trial at The Hague and try him by court martial. 231 00:17:03,901 --> 00:17:06,420 Well, that would cause an international incident. 232 00:17:06,421 --> 00:17:09,101 There might be a simpler solution. 233 00:17:09,141 --> 00:17:13,340 Private Clark's mental state could mean that he's unfit for trial. 234 00:17:13,341 --> 00:17:16,021 Now, that's a possibility, General. 235 00:17:16,061 --> 00:17:20,328 Not much honour there. Anyway, our trick cyclists say he's sound. 236 00:17:23,381 --> 00:17:25,981 Right. I'll report back. 237 00:17:29,101 --> 00:17:31,091 Gentlemen. 238 00:17:35,701 --> 00:17:39,491 How much of a sacrificial lamb is this soldier, Alan? 239 00:17:39,541 --> 00:17:43,420 Well, I suppose we could withdraw HMG's consent to the trial, 240 00:17:43,421 --> 00:17:46,460 although the PM's inclined to take it on the chin. 241 00:17:46,461 --> 00:17:49,221 It's Private Clark in the dock, not HMG. 242 00:17:49,261 --> 00:17:51,580 Well, it puts clear blue water between us and the US. 243 00:17:51,581 --> 00:17:55,940 It shows that the British don't shy away from international justice. 244 00:17:55,941 --> 00:18:01,941 If Deed was on the panel, swimming our way, so much the better. 245 00:18:01,981 --> 00:18:05,861 How to get Deed to swim other than against the tide, Alan? 246 00:18:08,061 --> 00:18:11,531 Your name's been put forward for the trial panel. 247 00:18:11,581 --> 00:18:13,900 The Government feels it should be represented. 248 00:18:13,901 --> 00:18:16,180 I don't represent the Government, Ian. 249 00:18:16,181 --> 00:18:19,651 His Honour Judge Previn is resisting your inclusion. 250 00:18:19,701 --> 00:18:22,100 He hasn't got much trial experience. 251 00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:25,220 Do any of them? They'll make up the deficiency by time-wasting. 252 00:18:25,221 --> 00:18:27,660 Oh, no, that means a year or more, Ian. 253 00:18:27,661 --> 00:18:30,180 I'd really rather one of the otherjudges did it. 254 00:18:30,181 --> 00:18:36,821 I think there's a move afoot to sacrifice Private Clark to our exit strategy. 255 00:18:36,861 --> 00:18:38,300 Which is what, exactly? 256 00:18:38,301 --> 00:18:40,101 I'm not privy to it, John, 257 00:18:40,141 --> 00:18:42,780 but I think it involves an English judge 258 00:18:42,781 --> 00:18:46,941 helping to deliverjustice by finding Private Clark guilty. 259 00:18:46,981 --> 00:18:48,811 And if he's not guilty? 260 00:18:48,861 --> 00:18:51,328 It's a small price to pay, it's felt, 261 00:18:51,341 --> 00:18:54,541 for saving the lives of British soldiers in Iraq. 262 00:20:11,341 --> 00:20:17,131 John, please go before I say something I might regret. 263 00:20:19,661 --> 00:20:21,651 Just go. 264 00:20:24,701 --> 00:20:26,661 Go! 265 00:20:30,341 --> 00:20:34,731 I can't do the case in The Hague. Deed's on the trial panel. 266 00:20:34,781 --> 00:20:39,781 - That's madness, Jo. - We had a relationship, Simon. 267 00:20:39,821 --> 00:20:42,060 Well, then, play him to our advantage. 268 00:20:42,061 --> 00:20:46,301 Think about it, Jo. It's like a gift to Dave Clark's defence. 269 00:21:23,941 --> 00:21:25,380 - Goedendag. - Goedendag. 270 00:21:25,381 --> 00:21:27,821 I'm Dr Pavely. I have a reservation. 271 00:21:27,861 --> 00:21:30,331 Ah, yes, Dr Pavely. 272 00:21:30,381 --> 00:21:33,301 If you could fill out the registration. 273 00:21:35,821 --> 00:21:38,101 Shall I unpack, Judge? 274 00:21:39,501 --> 00:21:43,060 - This trial's reckoned to last a year. - Are we staying? 275 00:21:43,061 --> 00:21:45,340 Well, from what I've read so far, we could do it in three weeks. 276 00:21:45,341 --> 00:21:46,741 I'll unpack, then. 277 00:21:46,781 --> 00:21:48,620 Marie Madsen, chief prosecutor of the ICC. 278 00:21:48,621 --> 00:21:50,955 Excuse me! Mr Justice Deed is busy! 279 00:21:50,967 --> 00:21:54,517 - She's here now, Coop. - So much for security! 280 00:21:54,567 --> 00:21:58,117 I don't think there's much danger in Ms Madsen. 281 00:21:58,167 --> 00:22:01,957 You look older than your reputation led me to expect. 282 00:22:02,007 --> 00:22:03,687 Touché. 283 00:22:05,758 --> 00:22:09,638 - Do you fence? - Games are a waste of time. 284 00:22:09,678 --> 00:22:12,638 It's mental discipline, like yoga. 285 00:22:12,678 --> 00:22:15,148 - You do yoga? - No, I'm too lazy. 286 00:22:15,198 --> 00:22:18,157 Have you read the papers in the Private Clark case? 287 00:22:18,158 --> 00:22:20,758 There is a lot to read. 288 00:22:20,798 --> 00:22:23,918 Well, we have a drink later and talk, yes? 289 00:22:23,958 --> 00:22:28,748 Is it quite proper? The chief prosecutor and one of the trial judges? 290 00:22:28,798 --> 00:22:31,757 Ourjoint concern is the achievement of justice. 291 00:22:31,758 --> 00:22:34,597 I thought that you presented your evidence, the defence theirs, 292 00:22:34,598 --> 00:22:36,958 and the judges decide. 293 00:22:36,998 --> 00:22:39,037 Article 54 (1 ) says my task is to investigate 294 00:22:39,038 --> 00:22:42,238 both incriminating and exonerating circumstances. 295 00:22:43,589 --> 00:22:46,256 You should not hear this case, Sir John. 296 00:22:46,518 --> 00:22:48,428 Until later. 297 00:22:56,758 --> 00:22:59,518 She's a forceful lady. 298 00:22:59,558 --> 00:23:01,628 Bit of a madam, if you ask me. 299 00:23:01,678 --> 00:23:05,878 She has a reputation for getting drunk with the trial judges. 300 00:23:21,078 --> 00:23:23,838 Oh, I'm a police officer. 301 00:23:23,878 --> 00:23:25,868 Oh. 302 00:23:26,958 --> 00:23:29,318 So, is, er... 303 00:23:29,358 --> 00:23:32,158 is your policewoman a lesbian? 304 00:23:34,358 --> 00:23:38,477 You have a reputation for getting too close to the trial judges. 305 00:23:38,478 --> 00:23:41,158 You have a reputation for interfering. 306 00:23:41,198 --> 00:23:44,428 Isn't that how European courts work? 307 00:23:44,478 --> 00:23:47,037 The evidence points to Private Clark's guilt. 308 00:23:47,038 --> 00:23:49,677 His defence team would say it points to lack of legal guilt. 309 00:23:49,678 --> 00:23:53,677 - You're familiar with his defence team? - My statement didn't imply that. 310 00:23:53,678 --> 00:23:55,745 Do you have sex with Mrs Mills? 311 00:23:57,038 --> 00:23:59,718 You get right to it, don't you? 312 00:23:59,758 --> 00:24:02,068 Ah, you don't deny it. 313 00:24:02,118 --> 00:24:05,238 Am I being cross-examined? 314 00:24:05,278 --> 00:24:10,758 - Oh, how can she defend this man? - I'm not running the defence. 315 00:24:10,798 --> 00:24:15,588 - It's for us to interrogate him. - With his defence team. 316 00:24:17,798 --> 00:24:21,917 When I heard you might be on this panel, I was sure I wouldn't like you. 317 00:24:21,918 --> 00:24:25,228 Hm. Now you've changed your mind, have you? 318 00:24:25,278 --> 00:24:28,588 You are frank, forthright. 319 00:24:29,638 --> 00:24:34,905 I can't stand men who don't know what they want, nor how to get it when they do. 320 00:24:37,918 --> 00:24:40,038 Would you like to make love? 321 00:24:40,078 --> 00:24:42,758 I think that would be very nice. 322 00:24:42,798 --> 00:24:45,718 Oh, this is good. 323 00:24:45,758 --> 00:24:50,277 But at this point I must reveal I'm from the News Of The World and leave. 324 00:24:50,278 --> 00:24:51,918 This is a joke? 325 00:24:51,958 --> 00:24:55,038 Yeah, it's... it's more a cultural difference. 326 00:24:55,078 --> 00:24:57,917 - I thought you knew what you wanted. - Yes, I'll regret it all my life. 327 00:24:57,918 --> 00:25:00,798 Yes... 328 00:25:00,838 --> 00:25:04,068 ...I think you will. 329 00:25:06,678 --> 00:25:08,668 Sir John? 330 00:25:11,638 --> 00:25:14,108 Nick of time. 331 00:25:25,518 --> 00:25:28,385 Are they going to find me guilty, Mrs Mills? 332 00:25:29,398 --> 00:25:32,438 - Are they? - We think our case is good. 333 00:25:32,478 --> 00:25:36,318 Dave, I want you to bring your mother into court. 334 00:25:37,838 --> 00:25:41,228 No. She's not well. She can't. 335 00:25:41,278 --> 00:25:43,717 They'll hear how you helped look after her when you were growing up. 336 00:25:43,718 --> 00:25:45,637 They'll see her in her wheelchair. 337 00:25:45,638 --> 00:25:49,238 I don't want her to hear about those children. 338 00:25:49,278 --> 00:25:51,718 No, it... it'll kill her. 339 00:25:52,758 --> 00:25:55,518 Please don't make her come here. 340 00:26:17,518 --> 00:26:19,278 I wish I could do that. 341 00:26:19,318 --> 00:26:21,148 Excuse me? 342 00:26:21,198 --> 00:26:23,877 Do you know the fable of the hare and the tortoise? 343 00:26:23,878 --> 00:26:25,708 I'm sure it ends badly. 344 00:26:25,758 --> 00:26:29,148 - Well... - She's a guest at our hotel. 345 00:26:29,198 --> 00:26:31,798 They must be giving her different food. 346 00:26:44,758 --> 00:26:46,398 Hi. 347 00:26:46,438 --> 00:26:48,748 I wanted this to be informal. 348 00:26:48,798 --> 00:26:51,188 Not country to country. 349 00:26:51,238 --> 00:26:55,028 You require me to step down. Marie Madsen told me. 350 00:26:55,078 --> 00:26:57,677 The Iraqis do not wish an English judge to be on the panel. 351 00:26:57,678 --> 00:26:59,748 No, of course not. 352 00:26:59,798 --> 00:27:03,277 The is a most prominent case, monsieur. We must accommodate them. 353 00:27:03,278 --> 00:27:05,317 Well, because of its prominence, we shouldn't. 354 00:27:05,318 --> 00:27:08,717 How could the British continue in Iraq if we gave in to their demands? 355 00:27:08,718 --> 00:27:11,877 The British shouldn't be in Iraq. Nor the Americans. 356 00:27:11,878 --> 00:27:16,038 The UK has a commitment, to help stabilise things. 357 00:27:16,078 --> 00:27:18,517 Can they ever be stable under an occupying power? 358 00:27:18,518 --> 00:27:21,557 - Will it ever be stable without? - With anyone else's help, yes. 359 00:27:21,558 --> 00:27:24,028 - Is France helping? - Naturellement. 360 00:27:24,078 --> 00:27:26,228 Working behind the scenes. 361 00:27:26,278 --> 00:27:28,238 Naturellement. 362 00:27:29,518 --> 00:27:33,317 You'll find my trial experience helpful in moving things along. 363 00:27:33,318 --> 00:27:35,708 These cases take time, monsieur. 364 00:27:35,758 --> 00:27:39,277 Too much time is being wasted. We could do this in three weeks. 365 00:27:39,278 --> 00:27:42,358 I am the trial president, monsieur. 366 00:27:45,678 --> 00:27:48,718 Mrs Mills, Judge. 367 00:27:48,758 --> 00:27:51,037 - Coop... - I know, Judge, some tea. 368 00:27:51,038 --> 00:27:53,398 No, I haven't come for tea. 369 00:27:55,798 --> 00:27:57,717 You're on the panel hearing Private Clark. 370 00:27:57,718 --> 00:27:59,637 Somebody doesn't want me to be. 371 00:27:59,638 --> 00:28:02,558 Good. Neither do I. I want you to step down. 372 00:28:04,518 --> 00:28:08,038 Britain has to be represented. 373 00:28:08,078 --> 00:28:10,677 Since when have you become the Government's hack? 374 00:28:10,678 --> 00:28:12,588 That's not the issue. 375 00:28:12,638 --> 00:28:15,277 Nor will I allow your new chums to make it so. 376 00:28:15,278 --> 00:28:17,157 It's our Government who should be on trial. 377 00:28:17,158 --> 00:28:19,797 Taking that line will damage your career. 378 00:28:19,798 --> 00:28:24,037 My career's just fine, thank you. I'd sooner not be part of the Establishment. 379 00:28:24,038 --> 00:28:27,277 - Like it or not, Jo, you are. - I'm increasingly ashamed to be British. 380 00:28:27,278 --> 00:28:31,212 Joining Jumping Jack Flash's set's not going to help, is it? 381 00:28:33,758 --> 00:28:35,357 I want you to think about what I've asked. 382 00:28:35,358 --> 00:28:38,438 Yeah, yeah. What defence are you running? 383 00:28:38,478 --> 00:28:41,945 Going after the Government will not help your client. 384 00:28:45,638 --> 00:28:47,557 Claude says you refuse to step down. 385 00:28:47,558 --> 00:28:49,957 - I'm sorry, Sir John. - It's all right, she's harmless. 386 00:28:49,958 --> 00:28:53,357 Pah! Islamic terrorists are harmless compared to me! 387 00:28:53,358 --> 00:28:57,878 It's fine. Marie Madsen, Jo Mills. Prosecution, meet the defence. 388 00:28:57,918 --> 00:29:01,758 Ah, Mrs Mills. I know about you. 389 00:29:01,798 --> 00:29:05,357 You will step down from this case, Sir John. It's essential. 390 00:29:05,358 --> 00:29:08,517 - Persuade him, Mrs Mills. - I don't have that sort of influence. 391 00:29:08,518 --> 00:29:10,958 Then leave. I'll talk to him. 392 00:29:10,998 --> 00:29:14,837 In England, the prosecution and the defence see the trial judge together. 393 00:29:14,838 --> 00:29:17,228 This is The Hague, Mrs Mills. 394 00:29:17,278 --> 00:29:21,438 Mm. Where it seems you need little law to get by. 395 00:29:23,278 --> 00:29:25,268 What did she mean? 396 00:29:25,318 --> 00:29:27,957 No matter how differently you do things here, I won't see you without the defence. 397 00:29:27,958 --> 00:29:31,357 - Because of your relationship? - I don't answer to you, Marie. 398 00:29:31,358 --> 00:29:35,117 You must withdraw when you have a relationship with an advocate. 399 00:29:35,118 --> 00:29:36,557 You have a relationship with Previn. 400 00:29:36,558 --> 00:29:39,317 You're in and out of his room like a fiddler's elbow. 401 00:29:39,318 --> 00:29:41,758 This is not an affair. 402 00:29:41,798 --> 00:29:44,157 What, you simply get drunk in his room, do you? 403 00:29:44,158 --> 00:29:46,077 - Where did you hear that? - Maybe you should step down. 404 00:29:46,078 --> 00:29:50,468 Never! I'm going to send this British soldier to prison. 405 00:30:02,598 --> 00:30:05,557 This is getting to be a habit, the hare passing the tortoise. 406 00:30:05,558 --> 00:30:08,958 - The tortoise wins in the end. - Only in the fable. 407 00:30:15,798 --> 00:30:17,997 Will you be here after your AIDS conference? 408 00:30:17,998 --> 00:30:20,278 No, I have to go to Switzerland. 409 00:30:20,318 --> 00:30:23,118 Where you run up and down mountains? 410 00:30:26,078 --> 00:30:30,868 How about a more leisurely bike ride around the city? 411 00:30:30,918 --> 00:30:33,958 - I have to do some work. - Oh, yeah. 412 00:30:33,998 --> 00:30:36,278 That'll be our epitaph, won't it? 413 00:30:36,318 --> 00:30:39,357 Putting life on hold while we wait for work to stop. 414 00:30:39,358 --> 00:30:41,588 Yes. It's a modern disease. 415 00:30:41,638 --> 00:30:44,278 How about that bike ride, then? 416 00:30:45,638 --> 00:30:48,028 No, I really do have to work. 417 00:30:49,518 --> 00:30:53,357 - How about dinner, then? - You really are very persistent, Mr Deed. 418 00:30:53,358 --> 00:30:55,718 Well... 419 00:30:55,758 --> 00:30:58,558 I do try. 420 00:31:00,558 --> 00:31:03,358 La cour se lève. 421 00:31:10,358 --> 00:31:15,038 Cour Pénale Internationale. L'audience est ouverte à dix heures. 422 00:31:15,078 --> 00:31:16,718 Good day to everyone. 423 00:31:16,758 --> 00:31:19,878 I would like to start 424 00:31:19,918 --> 00:31:24,358 by asking the defendant about conditions in detention. 425 00:31:24,398 --> 00:31:28,078 He has any complaints? He is receiving the correct food? 426 00:31:28,118 --> 00:31:30,478 He is, Your Honour. No complaints. 427 00:31:30,518 --> 00:31:34,358 Can we read out the charge to the accused? 428 00:31:34,398 --> 00:31:36,717 May it please Your Honour, before this is read, 429 00:31:36,718 --> 00:31:41,037 I must challenge the propriety of Sir John Deed to sit on this panel. 430 00:31:41,038 --> 00:31:42,438 On what grounds? 431 00:31:42,478 --> 00:31:45,345 He has a relationship with the defence lead. 432 00:31:45,358 --> 00:31:46,997 You are presenting evidence? 433 00:31:46,998 --> 00:31:51,918 I would like to examine His Honour Sir John and Mrs Mills on this point. 434 00:31:52,958 --> 00:31:57,717 Well, I would suggest my chambers, but there is always a need for transparency. 435 00:31:57,718 --> 00:32:01,397 Not to proceed will raise the spectre of bias in this important case. 436 00:32:01,398 --> 00:32:06,348 Sir John and Madame Mills, would you submit to examination? 437 00:32:06,398 --> 00:32:08,958 This is wholly prejudicial. 438 00:32:10,758 --> 00:32:13,598 This trial cannot be subject to bias. 439 00:32:14,918 --> 00:32:18,677 Madame, do you have any relationship with any judge on this panel? 440 00:32:18,678 --> 00:32:23,038 I know Mr Justice Deed. I fenced with him only last week. 441 00:32:23,078 --> 00:32:25,317 Your Honour, this is to favour her client. 442 00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:30,478 - Does Sir John wish to comment? - Not in open court, no. 443 00:32:30,518 --> 00:32:33,585 Under our constitution, we demand transparency. 444 00:32:35,678 --> 00:32:41,078 Is there a relationship likely to prejudice this trial? 445 00:32:41,118 --> 00:32:43,718 No, there is not. 446 00:32:43,758 --> 00:32:47,118 Then we should be mindful of Article 67, 447 00:32:47,158 --> 00:32:51,558 which guarantees the defendant the right to choose his own counsel. 448 00:32:53,078 --> 00:32:55,998 May we continue reading out the charge? 449 00:32:56,038 --> 00:32:57,957 Would your honour hear a further argument? 450 00:32:57,958 --> 00:33:00,238 Regrettably, no. 451 00:33:00,278 --> 00:33:02,078 I have ruled. 452 00:33:08,758 --> 00:33:11,478 David Patrick Clark, 453 00:33:11,518 --> 00:33:15,118 you are charged with the war crime of wilful killing, 454 00:33:15,158 --> 00:33:20,318 contrary to the Rome Statute, Article 8, 2 (b), 455 00:33:20,358 --> 00:33:23,092 that on November 11th last at around 5pm, 456 00:33:23,118 --> 00:33:28,558 in the context of and associated with an international armed conflict, 457 00:33:28,598 --> 00:33:35,158 you did cause the death by shooting of Asheer Al-Abul, aged four years, 458 00:33:35,198 --> 00:33:37,237 a person you knew to be protected 459 00:33:37,238 --> 00:33:43,758 under the provisions of the Geneva Convention of 12th August 1949. 460 00:33:43,798 --> 00:33:47,277 You are further charged with the war crimes of murder, 461 00:33:47,278 --> 00:33:49,998 contrary to Article 8, 2 (c), 462 00:33:50,038 --> 00:33:55,158 in that you did murder civilians taking no part in the hostilities. 463 00:33:55,198 --> 00:33:59,118 Namely, Maliki Al-Jamil, aged seven, 464 00:33:59,158 --> 00:34:01,308 Eisa Ali Nasser, nine years old, 465 00:34:01,358 --> 00:34:04,638 Ziyal Ataie, 466 00:34:04,678 --> 00:34:06,588 Amira Hakim, 467 00:34:06,638 --> 00:34:08,598 Hussein Husseini, 468 00:34:08,638 --> 00:34:10,158 Sadia Al-Rahman, 469 00:34:10,198 --> 00:34:12,028 Mohammed Rufi, 470 00:34:12,078 --> 00:34:14,308 Qasim Al-Assam, 471 00:34:14,358 --> 00:34:16,478 Murtaza Nazah. 472 00:34:17,798 --> 00:34:22,038 How do you plead, guilty or not guilty? 473 00:34:23,878 --> 00:34:25,948 Not guilty, sir. 474 00:34:25,998 --> 00:34:28,838 Sit down, monsieur. 475 00:34:28,878 --> 00:34:30,598 Madame Mills. 476 00:34:32,518 --> 00:34:34,997 In support of Private Clark's defence, we have sought 477 00:34:34,998 --> 00:34:37,477 hospital records from the Iraqi authority. 478 00:34:37,478 --> 00:34:42,478 These relate to the man that Private Clark rescued and who died in his arms. 479 00:34:42,518 --> 00:34:45,558 These records aren't forthcoming. 480 00:34:45,598 --> 00:34:47,038 You know they exist? 481 00:34:47,078 --> 00:34:49,477 We believe so, based on evidence from the defendant. 482 00:34:49,478 --> 00:34:50,757 You did request them? 483 00:34:50,758 --> 00:34:54,468 We did. Not having them is prejudicial to the defence. 484 00:34:54,518 --> 00:34:55,757 But you knew the trial date. 485 00:34:55,758 --> 00:35:00,148 The prosecution could use its considerable powers under Article 54 486 00:35:00,198 --> 00:35:06,678 to investigate with the Iraq authority just why these papers aren't forthcoming. 487 00:35:07,798 --> 00:35:09,708 The man is a fiction. 488 00:35:09,758 --> 00:35:11,718 There are no papers. 489 00:35:11,758 --> 00:35:14,117 I would like you to investigate further and report back. 490 00:35:14,118 --> 00:35:16,318 This is a matter for the defence. 491 00:35:16,358 --> 00:35:19,797 I'm not here to scout for data to exonerate the accused. 492 00:35:19,798 --> 00:35:23,117 Your statutory obligation is to establish the truth. 493 00:35:23,118 --> 00:35:25,508 I want those hospital papers. 494 00:35:25,558 --> 00:35:28,677 I'm sure Mrs Mills will provide the details for you. 495 00:35:28,678 --> 00:35:32,148 - I'm obliged, My Lord. - Wrong form, Mrs Mills. 496 00:35:32,198 --> 00:35:33,798 Your Honour. 497 00:35:33,838 --> 00:35:35,828 Can we proceed? 498 00:35:37,118 --> 00:35:40,957 I'd first like to enquire about the defendant's mental state. 499 00:35:40,958 --> 00:35:44,268 Er... no. The prisoner was declared fit for trial. 500 00:35:44,318 --> 00:35:46,397 Yes, I read the Army psychiatrists' reports. 501 00:35:46,398 --> 00:35:48,397 Are there any independent reports? 502 00:35:48,398 --> 00:35:53,465 How many psychies must a man have to see before they can call him quite sane? 503 00:35:53,998 --> 00:35:56,438 British Army psychiatrists. 504 00:35:56,478 --> 00:35:59,812 - No less qualified. - The prosecution has a point. 505 00:35:59,838 --> 00:36:01,077 Yes, they work for the Army. 506 00:36:01,078 --> 00:36:05,198 Work cultures affect the minds of us all, even psychiatrists. 507 00:36:05,238 --> 00:36:07,917 The whole of the British Army is mad, being in Iraq. 508 00:36:07,918 --> 00:36:11,557 Mrs Mills, was the defendant examined by any other psychiatrists? 509 00:36:11,558 --> 00:36:14,277 He was independently examined four times. 510 00:36:14,278 --> 00:36:17,079 The reports are on your screens at tab ten. 511 00:36:21,398 --> 00:36:25,597 - Will you be calling these psychiatrists? - Er... I will not. 512 00:36:25,598 --> 00:36:29,438 In which case, I'd like to examine the Army psychiatrists. 513 00:36:29,478 --> 00:36:30,878 For what purpose? 514 00:36:30,918 --> 00:36:35,078 I want to be satisfied as to the mental state of the defendant. 515 00:36:35,118 --> 00:36:37,348 It isn't disputed by anyone. 516 00:36:37,398 --> 00:36:41,758 I find myself agreeing with the defence. On this point. 517 00:36:48,198 --> 00:36:50,837 - We have no other option. - No, obviously. 518 00:36:50,838 --> 00:36:53,878 We will withdraw to discuss. 519 00:36:53,918 --> 00:36:56,278 La cour se lève. 520 00:37:03,278 --> 00:37:06,988 He's always so infuriating? 521 00:37:07,038 --> 00:37:08,948 You ain't seen nothing. 522 00:37:11,518 --> 00:37:13,508 Relax, Dave. 523 00:37:15,598 --> 00:37:18,597 - Would you wait outside? - He's got to be guarded, miss. 524 00:37:18,598 --> 00:37:20,358 Yes. But outside. 525 00:37:20,398 --> 00:37:22,317 No, miss. He needs guarding at all times. 526 00:37:22,318 --> 00:37:24,837 Just leave. We need to speak to Private Clark alone. 527 00:37:24,838 --> 00:37:26,277 - It's orders. - No, get out! 528 00:37:26,278 --> 00:37:29,157 Simon, tell the judges the guards are preventing our client 529 00:37:29,158 --> 00:37:32,092 from mounting his defence. We can't continue. 530 00:37:34,238 --> 00:37:36,198 Fine. 531 00:37:37,238 --> 00:37:39,228 I'll tell them. 532 00:37:43,158 --> 00:37:46,838 You want to punch these guys, they're so stupid! 533 00:37:46,878 --> 00:37:48,948 They're quite friendly, really. 534 00:37:48,998 --> 00:37:53,198 Regardless, your defence is yours until it's given in court. 535 00:37:53,238 --> 00:37:56,038 I'm not mad, Mrs Mills. 536 00:37:56,078 --> 00:37:59,077 Dave, this is a ploy to stop us going to trial. 537 00:37:59,078 --> 00:38:01,957 - I don't think John... - He is a British judge, Jo, 538 00:38:01,958 --> 00:38:03,597 working for the Government. 539 00:38:03,598 --> 00:38:07,357 - Why is he asking if I'm mad? - To try to stop the trial. 540 00:38:07,358 --> 00:38:09,237 He's trying to be fair to you. 541 00:38:09,238 --> 00:38:11,517 They were terrorists I shot. I know they were. 542 00:38:11,518 --> 00:38:15,197 But unfortunately, Dave, your only witness died in your arms. 543 00:38:15,198 --> 00:38:16,677 No-one believes he existed. 544 00:38:16,678 --> 00:38:19,148 - He was never found. - He was there. 545 00:38:19,198 --> 00:38:21,397 Someone's hiding those hospital records. 546 00:38:21,398 --> 00:38:23,597 Can you stop the psychiatrists saying I'm mad? 547 00:38:23,598 --> 00:38:27,437 - Is that what they're going to say? - I'm not mad, Mrs Mills. 548 00:38:27,438 --> 00:38:29,038 I'm not. 549 00:38:29,078 --> 00:38:32,197 Does psychiatry not obscure the waters of criminal trials? 550 00:38:32,198 --> 00:38:36,038 - Is this what you wish, monsieur? - You know differently. 551 00:38:36,078 --> 00:38:38,718 I can order this not to happen. 552 00:38:41,798 --> 00:38:44,558 Then we'll fall out publicly. 553 00:38:44,598 --> 00:38:48,438 Your government is in a most unhappy place. 554 00:38:48,478 --> 00:38:52,597 The Iraqis want this atrocity condemned, and your army is in need of protection. 555 00:38:52,598 --> 00:38:55,438 Madness is a convenient escape. 556 00:38:55,478 --> 00:38:58,678 The psychiatrists may confirm he's not mad. 557 00:38:58,718 --> 00:39:00,477 My concern is to be convinced 558 00:39:00,478 --> 00:39:04,077 that Clark was in control of his mind when he shot those people. 559 00:39:04,078 --> 00:39:06,518 Otherwise, the trial cannot proceed. 560 00:39:12,118 --> 00:39:15,757 This could mean the British Army escaping without punishment. 561 00:39:15,758 --> 00:39:17,825 Is this Judge Deed's intention? 562 00:39:17,838 --> 00:39:21,077 I can think of no other reason to examine the psychiatrists. 563 00:39:21,078 --> 00:39:25,078 Deed wanted to shorten the trial time, not extend it. 564 00:39:25,118 --> 00:39:28,478 Then I will ask our Foreign Minister 565 00:39:28,518 --> 00:39:31,277 to complain to the United Nations about Judge Deed. 566 00:39:31,278 --> 00:39:34,038 Perhaps we can remove him. 567 00:39:34,078 --> 00:39:36,228 We can hope. 568 00:39:46,678 --> 00:39:50,598 - Is Deed helping us, Alan? - For once, he appears to be. 569 00:39:50,638 --> 00:39:56,037 He would help us by denying Mrs Mills and her cronies their international platform. 570 00:39:56,038 --> 00:40:00,158 We plan to separate Mrs Mills from her loony friends... 571 00:40:01,158 --> 00:40:03,468 ...and undermine their case. 572 00:40:03,518 --> 00:40:05,078 That'll delay things. 573 00:40:05,118 --> 00:40:07,957 I had no idea he'd try to shorten the trial time. 574 00:40:07,958 --> 00:40:10,188 Your medics could help, 575 00:40:10,238 --> 00:40:14,117 if the Army were to reconsider its position on Private Clark's mental state. 576 00:40:14,118 --> 00:40:16,797 And how would that help the situation in Basra? 577 00:40:16,798 --> 00:40:19,477 A speedy resolution will benefit everyone. 578 00:40:19,478 --> 00:40:21,838 Yes, I suppose. 579 00:40:21,878 --> 00:40:26,238 Our boys are having a difficult time. 580 00:40:30,438 --> 00:40:34,038 But your way so frequently prevails, Marie. 581 00:40:34,078 --> 00:40:37,918 This is such an important trial for you, Claude. 582 00:40:37,958 --> 00:40:41,478 We must not allow ourselves to be embarrassed. 583 00:40:41,518 --> 00:40:43,677 Monsieur Deed is right to seek records 584 00:40:43,678 --> 00:40:46,397 that may have come detached from that dead witness. 585 00:40:46,398 --> 00:40:50,398 How? Iraq is in chaos, Claude, the result of invading forces. 586 00:40:50,438 --> 00:40:53,398 Then he will insist on the psychiatrists. 587 00:40:57,038 --> 00:40:58,758 Claude. 588 00:40:59,758 --> 00:41:02,398 There is, um... 589 00:41:02,438 --> 00:41:05,588 something I must tell you about Deed. 590 00:41:05,638 --> 00:41:07,038 It's messy. 591 00:41:07,078 --> 00:41:09,918 Then you'd better come to my chambers. 592 00:41:14,598 --> 00:41:16,237 Your taxi is waiting, Doctor. 593 00:41:16,238 --> 00:41:19,077 Can you give this to Sir John Deed for me, please? 594 00:41:19,078 --> 00:41:21,118 - Thank you. - Thank you. 595 00:41:29,038 --> 00:41:32,957 Answer me, monsieur. Are you still sexually pressuring Marie Madsen? 596 00:41:32,958 --> 00:41:35,518 Oh, please! 597 00:41:35,558 --> 00:41:38,478 - Monsieur? - This is all nonsense. 598 00:41:38,518 --> 00:41:40,908 You find women troublesome, no? 599 00:41:40,958 --> 00:41:42,948 But I love them! 600 00:41:45,518 --> 00:41:48,157 - You have such a reputation. - Evidence, Claude. 601 00:41:48,158 --> 00:41:50,118 Marie is very beautiful, no? 602 00:41:50,158 --> 00:41:53,757 She should try using a little less sex and a little more law. 603 00:41:53,758 --> 00:41:57,038 I will examine those psychiatrists. 604 00:41:58,198 --> 00:42:02,517 In any dangerous situation, the normal response is fight or flight. 605 00:42:02,518 --> 00:42:05,078 This is what adrenaline does for us. 606 00:42:05,118 --> 00:42:08,158 In soldiers, the urge to flee is suppressed, 607 00:42:08,198 --> 00:42:11,278 both by training and by peer-group pressure. 608 00:42:11,318 --> 00:42:12,918 Soldiers are not normal? 609 00:42:12,958 --> 00:42:16,517 If you accept the norm as not unquestioningly submitting to discipline, 610 00:42:16,518 --> 00:42:19,078 or subjecting oneself to danger. 611 00:42:19,118 --> 00:42:22,237 Does Private Clark need to subject himself to danger? 612 00:42:22,238 --> 00:42:24,397 That tendency exists in most soldiers. 613 00:42:24,398 --> 00:42:28,948 Private Clark comes from a very protected background. 614 00:42:28,998 --> 00:42:33,717 His mother is an invalid and was confined to a wheelchair soon after his birth. 615 00:42:33,718 --> 00:42:35,797 His older sisters are her carers 616 00:42:35,798 --> 00:42:39,997 and brought up Private Clark after his father deserted the family. 617 00:42:39,998 --> 00:42:43,878 He has a greater need for danger than most. 618 00:42:43,918 --> 00:42:47,477 Does that predispose him to a low threshold of self-control? 619 00:42:47,478 --> 00:42:49,518 In my opinion, yes. 620 00:42:49,558 --> 00:42:55,025 In your opinion, was he beyond reasonable self-control at the time of the shooting? 621 00:42:58,598 --> 00:43:03,148 On re-examining the hours of interviews, I'd say he was. 622 00:43:07,318 --> 00:43:08,638 Thank you. 623 00:43:11,878 --> 00:43:14,348 Hi. 312, please. 624 00:43:14,398 --> 00:43:17,518 Thank you. 625 00:43:17,558 --> 00:43:21,268 - Dr Pavely left this for you, sir. - Thanks. 626 00:43:25,478 --> 00:43:28,545 - Is she coming back? - She's kept her room on. 627 00:43:31,958 --> 00:43:35,092 See if you can get Dr Pavely's number, will you? 628 00:43:37,958 --> 00:43:40,428 La cour se lève. 629 00:43:46,518 --> 00:43:48,668 Madame Mills. 630 00:43:49,998 --> 00:43:53,957 In your original opinion, along with that of Doctors Denman and Smith, 631 00:43:53,958 --> 00:43:58,398 you thought he was "reasoning and therefore responsible". 632 00:43:58,438 --> 00:44:00,877 Madame, you appear to be working against your client. 633 00:44:00,878 --> 00:44:03,438 No, these are his instructions. 634 00:44:03,478 --> 00:44:07,838 He won't accept he was in shock and therefore not responsible. 635 00:44:08,918 --> 00:44:11,997 When the Government puts a young soldier in the position 636 00:44:11,998 --> 00:44:14,678 that Private Clark was put in, 637 00:44:14,718 --> 00:44:19,958 even with all his training, he is still subject to human error in extremis. 638 00:44:19,998 --> 00:44:22,677 He found himself in the most desperate, terrifying situation, 639 00:44:22,678 --> 00:44:26,518 with only a fraction of a second to respond. 640 00:44:26,558 --> 00:44:32,348 He believes that in killing terrorists as he did, he exercised properjudgment. 641 00:44:32,398 --> 00:44:34,877 His colonel agreed with that, initially. 642 00:44:34,878 --> 00:44:37,478 I have a copy of Colonel Roth's report. 643 00:44:46,598 --> 00:44:48,797 How was this obtained, Mrs Mills? 644 00:44:48,798 --> 00:44:51,477 It was sent to me anonymously from Brigade Headquarters. 645 00:44:51,478 --> 00:44:53,717 - The sender is unknown? - Regrettably. 646 00:44:53,718 --> 00:44:57,797 Perhaps the prosecution can use its considerable investigatory powers 647 00:44:57,798 --> 00:44:59,678 to identify the sender. 648 00:44:59,718 --> 00:45:01,708 Resume, Madame Mills. 649 00:45:01,758 --> 00:45:05,957 Dr Froad, are psychiatric disorders prevalent in the soldiers serving in Iraq? 650 00:45:05,958 --> 00:45:08,357 They appear wherever soldiers wage war. 651 00:45:08,358 --> 00:45:13,518 - Particularly so in Iraq? - There are stress problems. 652 00:45:13,558 --> 00:45:17,478 Isn't it true that out of a force of approximately 8,000, 653 00:45:17,518 --> 00:45:22,518 over 1,500 have been sent home suffering psychiatric disorders? 654 00:45:24,078 --> 00:45:26,278 There is a lot of stress. 655 00:45:26,318 --> 00:45:29,358 Is that a yes or a no, Doctor? 656 00:45:29,398 --> 00:45:31,228 Yes. 657 00:45:31,278 --> 00:45:34,957 Was Private Clark sent home suffering with a psychiatric condition 658 00:45:34,958 --> 00:45:37,318 two months before the shootings, 659 00:45:37,358 --> 00:45:40,425 but then declared fit for active service again? 660 00:45:43,758 --> 00:45:45,748 Mistakenly, in my opinion. 661 00:45:46,798 --> 00:45:50,197 But your original opinion when you saw him back in Iraq 662 00:45:50,198 --> 00:45:53,065 had been that he was fit for active service. 663 00:45:54,478 --> 00:45:58,478 It was, but on reflection, I was wrong in that. 664 00:45:59,478 --> 00:46:03,028 Has pressure been put on you to change that opinion? 665 00:46:04,078 --> 00:46:06,612 - We did a longer examination. - I see. 666 00:46:07,758 --> 00:46:09,158 Doctor. 667 00:46:09,198 --> 00:46:12,908 Are you now saying that Private Clark was so stressed 668 00:46:12,958 --> 00:46:15,917 that he wasn't responsible for these killings? 669 00:46:15,918 --> 00:46:21,708 I am saying his actions were simply a reflex. We say he was "automated". 670 00:46:21,758 --> 00:46:23,718 - No controlling mind. - No! 671 00:46:23,758 --> 00:46:25,828 No, that's not right. 672 00:46:28,638 --> 00:46:31,117 Sir Joseph Channing's clerk rang, Judge. 673 00:46:31,118 --> 00:46:34,237 She's looking for a date to review the Shelby Brookes appeal. 674 00:46:34,238 --> 00:46:35,917 What's our timetable here? 675 00:46:35,918 --> 00:46:39,317 Well, Judge Previn has to go to Paris tomorrow, so tomorrow's possible. 676 00:46:39,318 --> 00:46:40,718 OK, fine. 677 00:46:49,358 --> 00:46:53,238 I somehow feel we're letting Private Clark down, badly. 678 00:46:56,198 --> 00:46:59,478 He's very unhappy about those psychiatrists. 679 00:47:01,558 --> 00:47:04,788 A guilty plea would be more honourable, sir. 680 00:47:06,878 --> 00:47:08,868 Yeah. 681 00:47:23,838 --> 00:47:25,917 I can't go along with quashing this conviction. 682 00:47:25,918 --> 00:47:29,997 The man was at a political rally being deliberately provocative. 683 00:47:29,998 --> 00:47:32,717 Urging people to "take action like proper citizens"?! 684 00:47:32,718 --> 00:47:35,318 It was rather vague. 685 00:47:35,358 --> 00:47:38,197 Brookes was careful to avoid concrete threats, 686 00:47:38,198 --> 00:47:41,718 while exercising his democratic right to argue 687 00:47:41,758 --> 00:47:44,277 that Mohammed was backward and primitive. 688 00:47:44,278 --> 00:47:45,717 Who's to say he's not right, 689 00:47:45,718 --> 00:47:49,998 when one considers how Islam treats women and homosexuals? 690 00:47:50,038 --> 00:47:51,557 That's hardly relevant, anyway, 691 00:47:51,558 --> 00:47:54,597 as much the same could be said of Roman Catholicism or Judaism. 692 00:47:54,598 --> 00:47:57,878 The mens rea in this offence is intention. 693 00:47:57,918 --> 00:48:00,718 A conviction must be based on proof 694 00:48:00,758 --> 00:48:05,678 that Brookes deliberately intended to incite hatred against religion. 695 00:48:05,718 --> 00:48:08,477 Yes, intention is very difficult to define in law, 696 00:48:08,478 --> 00:48:10,517 but I'm of the view that that was his intention. 697 00:48:10,518 --> 00:48:13,557 No. That's where the original trial judge went wrong. 698 00:48:13,558 --> 00:48:17,158 He failed to allow the jury to consider this 699 00:48:17,198 --> 00:48:20,637 as something primarily subjective, as the law requires. 700 00:48:20,638 --> 00:48:22,468 Not that I blame him. 701 00:48:22,518 --> 00:48:25,277 I mean, the legislation is the usual bugger's muddle nowadays. 702 00:48:25,278 --> 00:48:27,677 I'm with Monty on this. 703 00:48:27,678 --> 00:48:29,317 No-one was being attacked in the speech 704 00:48:29,318 --> 00:48:33,478 or reviled for being something he cannot change, like his race. 705 00:48:33,518 --> 00:48:37,678 But criticism of his ideas and religion must be allowed, 706 00:48:37,718 --> 00:48:40,757 even if those criticisms are harsh and aggressive. 707 00:48:40,758 --> 00:48:46,198 I mean, we can lampoon Roman Catholicism without fear of death threats. 708 00:48:46,238 --> 00:48:51,918 No, Section 29 (j) of the Public Order Act makes clear 709 00:48:51,958 --> 00:48:56,078 that it was not intended to prohibit religious criticism, 710 00:48:56,118 --> 00:49:00,318 or even the expression of abuse or insults. 711 00:49:00,358 --> 00:49:02,037 The conclusion's the same, Joe. 712 00:49:02,038 --> 00:49:04,188 Think about it, John. 713 00:49:07,398 --> 00:49:09,788 All rise. 714 00:49:25,078 --> 00:49:28,038 It is the view of this court 715 00:49:28,078 --> 00:49:34,108 that the judge at Mr Brookes's original trial failed to direct the jury 716 00:49:34,158 --> 00:49:38,677 to the protections provided in Section 29 (j) of the Public Order Act. 717 00:49:38,678 --> 00:49:41,958 The wording is very clear. 718 00:49:41,998 --> 00:49:48,398 It specifically allows the expression of, and let me quote ipsissima verba, 719 00:49:48,438 --> 00:49:54,518 "dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions, 720 00:49:54,558 --> 00:49:59,028 "or the beliefs or practices of the adherents." 721 00:49:59,078 --> 00:50:03,838 Now, there is, in a free society, an important difference between that 722 00:50:03,878 --> 00:50:10,678 and the intentional stirring-up of hatred against people on religious grounds. 723 00:50:10,718 --> 00:50:16,958 That difference was not made clear adequately to the jury. 724 00:50:16,998 --> 00:50:20,148 Therefore, we quash the conviction. 725 00:50:20,198 --> 00:50:24,828 The appellant may be released. 726 00:50:24,878 --> 00:50:28,878 We shall rise whilst the public gallery is cleared. 727 00:50:38,438 --> 00:50:40,717 Isn't there a London contact for Dr Pavely? 728 00:50:40,718 --> 00:50:43,237 - Only the number the hotel has. - It's never switched on. 729 00:50:43,238 --> 00:50:46,039 I could check some other sources, Sir John. 730 00:51:07,678 --> 00:51:11,718 - What happened yesterday? - Last-minute changes. 731 00:51:11,758 --> 00:51:14,148 - I had no contact. - No. 732 00:51:14,198 --> 00:51:16,758 - Do you have them? - Of course. 733 00:51:16,798 --> 00:51:19,158 So small, it only kills the target. 734 00:51:19,198 --> 00:51:22,348 They'll trip as soon as the box is opened. 735 00:51:22,398 --> 00:51:25,118 Fat old men love chocolate. 736 00:51:31,478 --> 00:51:33,997 You've made excellent contact with our enemy. 737 00:51:33,998 --> 00:51:36,358 I was happy to do this for you. 738 00:51:36,398 --> 00:51:39,708 Your impeccable credentials weren't questioned. 739 00:51:39,758 --> 00:51:42,558 He seems such a reasonable man. 740 00:51:42,598 --> 00:51:45,397 That's how treacherously deceptive Western justice is. 741 00:51:45,398 --> 00:51:46,798 Hm. 742 00:51:46,838 --> 00:51:49,918 They smile while they kill your brothers. 743 00:51:49,958 --> 00:51:53,108 - Has something happened to my brothers? - No. 744 00:51:53,158 --> 00:51:54,988 Contact has been made. 745 00:51:55,038 --> 00:51:58,718 They are training in Afghanistan with the mujaheddin. 746 00:52:01,198 --> 00:52:05,518 Their cause is just, sister. But we can bring them back for you. 747 00:52:05,558 --> 00:52:08,692 First, there's something else we require of you. 748 00:52:30,358 --> 00:52:32,558 Hello, Dave. 749 00:52:36,118 --> 00:52:37,518 How are you? 750 00:52:37,558 --> 00:52:40,837 - Margaret, how did you get...? - As part of your defence team. 751 00:52:40,838 --> 00:52:43,838 Mark wanted to have a word. 752 00:52:45,078 --> 00:52:48,158 - They treating you right? - Can't complain. 753 00:52:50,438 --> 00:52:53,318 No, you were never a complainer. 754 00:52:54,598 --> 00:52:57,068 We all admired you for that. 755 00:52:59,398 --> 00:53:01,628 How's things with the rags? 756 00:53:01,678 --> 00:53:04,198 Bad and getting worse. 757 00:53:05,198 --> 00:53:08,908 The plan by the British Army and the British Government 758 00:53:08,958 --> 00:53:15,438 is to undermine Private Clark's defence and so deny him his day in court. 759 00:53:15,478 --> 00:53:22,118 They are trying to recategorise Private Clark as mad so he can't stand trial. 760 00:53:22,158 --> 00:53:25,997 It is members of the British Government who should be tried as war criminals, 761 00:53:25,998 --> 00:53:28,308 not Private Clark. 762 00:53:28,358 --> 00:53:35,038 Our Government should be on trial for persisting in this illegal war. 763 00:53:35,078 --> 00:53:38,758 - A war which, I might add... - What is going on? 764 00:53:38,798 --> 00:53:41,357 How will this help our client? We'll be reported to the Bar Council. 765 00:53:41,358 --> 00:53:43,357 It cuts the ground from under them, Jo. 766 00:53:43,358 --> 00:53:46,908 ...nor the international community as a whole. 767 00:53:46,958 --> 00:53:49,717 Do you realise what your cronies have done? 768 00:53:49,718 --> 00:53:52,028 I think it was justified. 769 00:53:52,078 --> 00:53:54,077 Are you as warped as they are? 770 00:53:54,078 --> 00:53:56,717 You're the leader, you're going to have to take the rap. 771 00:53:56,718 --> 00:53:58,797 You will get reported to the Bar Council. 772 00:53:58,798 --> 00:54:01,077 It's just another way for the Government to put pressure on us. 773 00:54:01,078 --> 00:54:03,837 Listen to you! You're even beginning to sound like them. 774 00:54:03,838 --> 00:54:06,798 - You're out to stop this trial. - No. 775 00:54:06,838 --> 00:54:08,958 Defect of mind. 776 00:54:08,998 --> 00:54:12,517 If he went not guilty on failure to appreciate unlawfulness, 777 00:54:12,518 --> 00:54:13,919 he might have walked. 778 00:54:13,958 --> 00:54:17,508 He was sound when he was sent back to Iraq. 779 00:54:18,558 --> 00:54:22,077 - I was just trying to help you. - We want our day in court. 780 00:54:22,078 --> 00:54:25,197 Are you out to score political points or help your client? 781 00:54:25,198 --> 00:54:27,588 That is pretty cheap. 782 00:54:27,638 --> 00:54:32,838 You may not like me joining this set, but we never compromise our clients. 783 00:54:32,878 --> 00:54:36,798 Their interests and your client's don't coincide. 784 00:54:36,838 --> 00:54:39,228 They coincide exactly. 785 00:54:39,278 --> 00:54:42,037 Private Clark was sent to do a job he was trained for. 786 00:54:42,038 --> 00:54:43,477 He made a judgment call 787 00:54:43,478 --> 00:54:46,917 that doesn't accord with the shifting sands of the Government's war policy. 788 00:54:46,918 --> 00:54:48,517 That does not make him guilty. 789 00:54:48,518 --> 00:54:53,388 He emptied a whole magazine into a group of civilians, including children. 790 00:54:53,438 --> 00:54:55,917 - 30 bullets. - Mm-hm. In four seconds. 791 00:54:55,918 --> 00:54:57,877 Well, that's hardly a split-second decision. 792 00:54:57,878 --> 00:55:01,597 But children made objects of war can kill as easily as their parents can. 793 00:55:01,598 --> 00:55:03,828 No, that argument's unwinnable. 794 00:55:03,878 --> 00:55:06,478 Well, it would be before a jury. 795 00:55:07,798 --> 00:55:09,838 Defect of mind. 796 00:55:09,878 --> 00:55:13,318 The court could request you to enter that plea. 797 00:55:13,358 --> 00:55:17,477 That would make my client a scapegoat and get your employers off the hook. 798 00:55:17,478 --> 00:55:22,998 The Government does not employ me. Why would I support such a position? 799 00:55:23,038 --> 00:55:25,478 Yes, John... 800 00:55:25,518 --> 00:55:27,508 why would you? 801 00:55:36,318 --> 00:55:38,317 - That seemed rather tense... - Sorry. 802 00:55:38,318 --> 00:55:42,919 No, it's all right, it's all right, she's here now. Well, you're back. 803 00:55:42,958 --> 00:55:44,158 Uh-huh. 804 00:55:44,198 --> 00:55:46,197 I tried calling you. How long are you back for? 805 00:55:46,198 --> 00:55:48,999 Until I get the AIDS conference organised. 806 00:55:49,038 --> 00:55:53,397 We need the pharmaceutical companies to donate more drugs. Urgently, you know? 807 00:55:53,398 --> 00:55:56,838 Yep. You better try blackmail. 808 00:55:56,878 --> 00:55:59,477 Remembering to stay just the side of what's legal. 809 00:55:59,478 --> 00:56:02,558 Oh, yes, where is that? Huh? 810 00:56:02,598 --> 00:56:06,265 Well, we could have dinner and work out precisely where. 811 00:56:06,878 --> 00:56:09,188 Is that work... 812 00:56:09,238 --> 00:56:11,468 or social? 813 00:56:11,518 --> 00:56:13,798 It's whatever we decide it is. 814 00:57:15,478 --> 00:57:17,758 Aah! 68453

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