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00:00:06,230 --> 00:00:07,956
Once
negotiations broke down,
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00:00:07,980 --> 00:00:09,740
we were left with little choice.
3
00:00:09,940 --> 00:00:11,950
The decision was made
for us to insert gas
4
00:00:12,150 --> 00:00:14,870
in an effort to coerce those
on the inside to come out.
5
00:00:16,910 --> 00:00:20,130
We followed protocol to a T.
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00:00:20,330 --> 00:00:23,460
The Davidians were raining
down gunfire on my men.
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00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:25,436
It looked like Christmas out
there with bullets hitting
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00:00:25,460 --> 00:00:28,640
our tanks, and my men
showed such restraint.
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00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,760
Not a single shot was
returned from the FBI.
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00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,600
Now with that being
said, are there tactics
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00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,180
or decisions that you
would've made differently?
12
00:00:40,430 --> 00:00:41,770
Not a one.
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00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:44,440
Not a one, huh?
14
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,280
This
is not an assault.
15
00:00:46,390 --> 00:00:48,570
The siege is over now.
16
00:00:51,530 --> 00:00:54,740
The gas you will be smelling
is a non-lethal tear gas.
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00:00:54,940 --> 00:00:56,620
Exit the compound.
18
00:00:56,820 --> 00:00:58,260
M60 vehicle,
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00:00:58,320 --> 00:00:59,830
this combat engineering vehicle,
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00:01:00,030 --> 00:01:01,500
uh, pumped tear gas...
21
00:01:04,790 --> 00:01:07,470
Gary, the Davidians
had a death wish.
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00:01:07,670 --> 00:01:09,510
That's not on the FBI.
23
00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:12,026
This thing was never gonna turn
out any different than it did.
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00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:13,890
If anything, we
should've gone in sooner,
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00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:15,520
once we realized
that negotiations
26
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:16,880
weren't yielding any results.
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00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:18,810
- No results?
- Yeah.
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00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,020
You know I seem to recall
negotiating 35 people out
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00:01:25,230 --> 00:01:27,900
of that building safely,
including 21 children.
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00:01:28,100 --> 00:01:30,530
You're acting like we rushed in.
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00:01:30,730 --> 00:01:33,910
We waited 51 days,
we gave you 51 days
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00:01:34,110 --> 00:01:36,370
to try to talk 'em out,
and you couldn't do it.
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00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,680
Why isn't anyone coming out?
They should be coming out.
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00:01:43,370 --> 00:01:44,570
No!
35
00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,880
inside this building.
36
00:01:47,910 --> 00:01:49,630
Seventeen of those
95 people, children.
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00:01:49,750 --> 00:01:50,550
Some 30...
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00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,890
- We give up. We give up.
- Okay.
39
00:01:56,090 --> 00:01:57,090
Somebody help me!
40
00:01:57,130 --> 00:01:58,730
We got people down here!
41
00:01:58,930 --> 00:02:01,480
Wait! Wait!
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00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,730
You failed, you didn't do your
job, so we had to do ours.
43
00:02:04,930 --> 00:02:07,070
Gentlemen, why
don't we all take a break?
44
00:02:07,270 --> 00:02:08,570
Hmm?
45
00:02:08,770 --> 00:02:11,740
Give everyone a
chance to cool down.
46
00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:14,700
Gary, you need to get
your shit together.
47
00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:16,240
We need to come clean, Alan.
48
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,040
- Oh.
- People are angry
49
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,926
about what happened in
Waco, and they're scared
50
00:02:19,950 --> 00:02:23,160
because they think that
we did it on purpose.
51
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,670
And we're too scared
52
00:02:25,870 --> 00:02:27,226
to tell them the truth,
that they're wrong.
53
00:02:27,250 --> 00:02:29,420
It wasn't part of
some master plan.
54
00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:32,100
It was just a bunch of bad
decisions and incompetence.
55
00:02:32,170 --> 00:02:33,930
Speak for
yourself, Gary.
56
00:02:34,130 --> 00:02:35,890
Your men, they may
have been incompetent.
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00:02:36,090 --> 00:02:38,220
Mine sure weren't.
58
00:02:38,420 --> 00:02:40,270
Oh, yeah.
59
00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:43,770
Well, the
medal is in the mail, Mitch.
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00:02:43,970 --> 00:02:45,786
Sunny
day today. We can expect
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00:02:45,810 --> 00:02:47,906
much, much more of the same
over the next few days.
62
00:02:47,930 --> 00:02:49,786
You might wanna do some of
those outdoor activities
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00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:51,456
- you've been saving up for.
- Thanks, Sammy.
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00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:52,576
Coming up next,
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00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:53,910
the trial of the Waco Five
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00:02:54,110 --> 00:02:55,780
begins in San Antonio this week
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00:02:55,980 --> 00:02:58,700
as a federal grand jury
indicted five of the surviving
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00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:02,040
Branch Davidians for unlawful
possession of firearms,
69
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,080
and aiding in the murder
of federal officers.
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00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,880
You ask me,
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00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,766
it's the FBI that should
be standing trial,
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00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:10,800
not those religious nuts.
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00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,920
Our government
just went in there,
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00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,640
burned those people
alive, women and children.
75
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,800
I think every
ATF and FBI agent
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00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,050
at Waco should go to jail.
77
00:04:35,590 --> 00:04:37,050
- Noesner.
- Yeah.
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00:04:37,250 --> 00:04:38,550
It's been awhile.
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00:04:38,750 --> 00:04:40,316
Oh yeah, sure
has, since what?
80
00:04:40,340 --> 00:04:42,010
The, uh, Atlanta Prison Riots?
81
00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:43,686
No, I feel like
I've seen you since.
82
00:04:43,710 --> 00:04:46,390
Oh, yeah? So, uh, what's
on the menu today?
83
00:04:46,590 --> 00:04:49,520
Well, we got four guys
wearing ex-presidents masks.
84
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,860
Oh, like that movie Point Break?
85
00:04:53,060 --> 00:04:54,610
Never said they were original.
86
00:04:54,810 --> 00:04:56,826
No, these guys have been
running around all over,
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00:04:56,850 --> 00:04:58,700
robbing banks in Oklahoma,
88
00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:01,910
Arkansas, 21 in all.
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00:05:02,110 --> 00:05:05,580
They're efficient, you know,
smart, in and out, 90 seconds,
90
00:05:05,780 --> 00:05:08,290
so local authorities had
had a hard time figuring out
91
00:05:08,490 --> 00:05:11,380
where they are until today
when we got a last-minute tip
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00:05:11,580 --> 00:05:14,550
that bank was gonna
be their next target.
93
00:05:14,750 --> 00:05:16,476
Now, we managed to
grab three of the guys,
94
00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:18,970
but one of them has
barricaded himself inside,
95
00:05:19,170 --> 00:05:20,550
and he has hostages.
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00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:22,066
We feel all four of
these guys are members
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00:05:22,090 --> 00:05:23,850
of the Aryan Republican Army.
98
00:05:24,050 --> 00:05:26,680
Oh, great. Nazis.
99
00:05:31,810 --> 00:05:33,560
What?
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00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,036
Hi, my name's Gary.
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00:05:35,060 --> 00:05:36,110
Who am I speaking with?
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00:05:36,310 --> 00:05:38,110
People call me "Wild Bill".
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00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:41,540
Well, Wild Bill, I'm
here to help you.
104
00:05:41,650 --> 00:05:43,296
Yeah?
Well, you can help me
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00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,410
by getting me a helicopter,
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00:05:44,610 --> 00:05:45,790
and I want it now
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00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:47,470
or I'm gonna start
killing people.
108
00:05:47,650 --> 00:05:49,636
And don't even think about
trying to come in here
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00:05:49,660 --> 00:05:51,136
because I got a pipe
bomb and I will blow
110
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:52,960
this place sky
high if you try it.
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00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,346
Let me look into
getting you that helicopter.
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00:05:54,370 --> 00:05:55,920
I'm serious!
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00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,080
I'm taking you
seriously, Wild Bill.
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00:05:58,210 --> 00:06:00,680
- Is Bomb Squad present?
- Uh-hmm.
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00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,260
Good. Keep 'em ready.
116
00:06:04,170 --> 00:06:05,856
All right. So, uh,
they're gonna need
117
00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,486
a little time getting
you that helicopter.
118
00:06:07,510 --> 00:06:09,390
- No. I want it now!
- I do, too.
119
00:06:09,590 --> 00:06:11,590
But right now, the only
available helicopter
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00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,100
is 50 miles away.
121
00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:14,786
In the meantime,
maybe you can tell me
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00:06:14,810 --> 00:06:16,400
how you got into this mess?
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00:06:17,690 --> 00:06:19,820
Yeah. I got into this mess
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00:06:20,020 --> 00:06:23,700
because somebody
has to fight back.
125
00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:26,990
You can only push people so far.
126
00:06:27,190 --> 00:06:28,620
That's very true.
127
00:07:29,050 --> 00:07:31,930
Who gave you permission
to use that thing in here?
128
00:07:32,130 --> 00:07:35,560
I'm a big boy, I gave
myself permission.
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00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,730
Machines are not allowed in
here without a court order.
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00:07:38,930 --> 00:07:41,650
Okay. Here's my court order.
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00:07:41,850 --> 00:07:43,070
Funny.
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00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:45,570
I don't see my
signature on that.
133
00:07:48,530 --> 00:07:49,870
Judge Smith.
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00:07:50,070 --> 00:07:54,080
I'm Dan Cogdell. I
represent Clive Doyle.
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00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,790
You're not defending anybody
with that thing in here.
136
00:07:56,990 --> 00:07:59,710
I want it gone by
the time we begin.
137
00:07:59,910 --> 00:08:03,050
Uh, but, Your Honor, I
have all my notes in it.
138
00:08:03,250 --> 00:08:04,686
Then I
suggest you find a way
139
00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:06,590
to get your notes out of it.
140
00:08:10,340 --> 00:08:12,720
Oh, shit.
141
00:08:19,970 --> 00:08:22,320
Baby killers!
142
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:23,940
How come they hate us so much?
143
00:08:24,140 --> 00:08:25,360
They don't even know us.
144
00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:30,030
We'll be okay...
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00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:33,200
somehow.
146
00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:41,130
You wanted
to present a motion?
147
00:08:41,870 --> 00:08:43,800
I did, Your Honor.
148
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,800
I would ask to predefine
inflammatory words.
149
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,300
Inflammatory words?
150
00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:50,800
Yes, Your Honor, we would move
151
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,640
to make certain
words inadmissible.
152
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,140
Which words would you
recommend we ban, Mr. Cogdell?
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00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:59,900
Well, for example,
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00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:02,900
we would motion to exclude
the word "compound"
155
00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:05,400
when referring to the
home at Mount Carmel,
156
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,950
as the word "compound" has
militaristic connotations.
157
00:09:08,150 --> 00:09:10,410
At this point the word
"compound" has been used
158
00:09:10,610 --> 00:09:12,870
a million times to
refer to Mount Carmel.
159
00:09:13,070 --> 00:09:15,080
But to the defendants
this was not a compound,
160
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,620
this was their home
161
00:09:16,820 --> 00:09:18,420
where they lived
and raised children,
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00:09:18,570 --> 00:09:20,346
where they had a God-given
right to practice their...
163
00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:23,000
Save it for
the trial, Mr. Cogdell.
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00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,920
Denied. Next.
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00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,516
We would like
to exclude the term
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00:09:26,540 --> 00:09:27,920
"Branch Davidians".
167
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,646
They never call
themselves by that name.
168
00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:31,090
Objection.
169
00:09:31,290 --> 00:09:32,816
If we can't call them
Branch Davidians,
170
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,606
then what are we
supposed to call them?
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00:09:34,630 --> 00:09:36,106
- Out to lunch?
- Well, I think
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00:09:36,130 --> 00:09:37,520
we can all agree that moniker
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00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,196
has been thoroughly
tarnished by the media.
174
00:09:39,220 --> 00:09:40,616
The
term "Branch Davidian"
175
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,610
was tarnished by
their own actions.
176
00:09:42,810 --> 00:09:45,020
But, Your Honor,
they are not on trial
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00:09:45,220 --> 00:09:46,650
for their religious beliefs.
178
00:09:46,850 --> 00:09:48,616
The defense used the
term "Branch Davidians"
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00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:49,640
in their own filings.
180
00:09:49,730 --> 00:09:50,820
I have a motion here filed
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00:09:51,020 --> 00:09:52,260
by Rocket Rosen of the defense.
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00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:53,820
Who's Rocket Rosen?
183
00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:56,200
I am, Your Honor.
184
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:57,200
Your name is Rocket?
185
00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,450
Yes, Your Honor.
186
00:09:58,650 --> 00:10:00,210
I was born on the 4th of July,
187
00:10:00,410 --> 00:10:02,040
so my daddy named me Rocket.
188
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,710
Well, I was born on October 26,
so my daddy named me Walter.
189
00:10:08,130 --> 00:10:10,010
- Did you file this motion?
- I did.
190
00:10:10,210 --> 00:10:12,476
- But that was a mistake.
- Motion denied.
191
00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:14,220
Next.
192
00:10:14,420 --> 00:10:16,220
The word "cult".
193
00:10:16,420 --> 00:10:19,060
Do they not yet realize
that this was a cult?
194
00:10:19,260 --> 00:10:20,520
This was no cult.
195
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:21,890
It was a communal church
196
00:10:22,090 --> 00:10:23,730
and David Koresh
was their pastor.
197
00:10:23,930 --> 00:10:26,900
Once that pastor takes 20 wives
198
00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:28,940
and leads his church
to mass suicide,
199
00:10:29,140 --> 00:10:31,360
I would say the word
"cult" is applicable.
200
00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:35,120
But the defendants are not
on trial for mass suicide.
201
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,586
Nobody thinks that any one
of them had anything to do
202
00:10:37,610 --> 00:10:40,370
with any fire or
had multiple wives
203
00:10:40,570 --> 00:10:42,580
or took child
brides or any of it.
204
00:10:42,780 --> 00:10:44,710
Using the word
"cult" is an attempt
205
00:10:44,910 --> 00:10:47,290
to try our clients for
another man's sins.
206
00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:48,620
Motion denied.
207
00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:49,740
My client Clive Doyle
208
00:10:49,830 --> 00:10:50,880
was there 15 years
209
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,880
before David Koresh's arrival.
210
00:10:55,090 --> 00:10:57,840
Rose and thorn, Karen?
211
00:10:59,340 --> 00:11:02,560
My thorn is I didn't sleep
212
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,520
very well 'cause Shari kept
stealing all the covers.
213
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,280
And rose, I got extra
oatmeal at breakfast.
214
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,610
Well, how about you, Shari?
215
00:11:13,810 --> 00:11:16,070
Rose, playing.
216
00:11:16,270 --> 00:11:17,950
Thorn, Karen.
217
00:11:20,150 --> 00:11:21,620
How about you, Dad?
218
00:11:21,820 --> 00:11:26,210
Thorn is my back's
been hurting me again.
219
00:11:26,410 --> 00:11:31,170
My rose is that I get to
spend this moment right now
220
00:11:31,370 --> 00:11:35,260
with my two favorite people
in the entire world, you two.
221
00:11:35,460 --> 00:11:37,430
I have never
wavered on this, George,
222
00:11:37,630 --> 00:11:40,810
you don't wear a sidearm
for Sabbath service.
223
00:11:41,010 --> 00:11:43,140
Why do you think you're
so special, mama?
224
00:11:43,340 --> 00:11:44,816
That you get to
make all the rules?
225
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,020
Because I am your prophet.
226
00:12:11,790 --> 00:12:13,170
Don't mind him.
227
00:12:14,380 --> 00:12:16,970
My name is Vernon Howell.
228
00:12:17,170 --> 00:12:20,760
I'm looking for the
Prophet Lois Roden.
229
00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:23,180
Come in.
230
00:12:24,970 --> 00:12:26,930
Service is starting.
231
00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:32,366
That's what you don't get.
232
00:12:32,390 --> 00:12:33,860
It's about being a patriot
233
00:12:34,060 --> 00:12:36,150
'cause this country
has lost its way.
234
00:12:36,350 --> 00:12:38,530
It's turned against the people
235
00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:40,046
who made it great
in the first place.
236
00:12:40,070 --> 00:12:41,270
So what are we supposed to do?
237
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,376
Just wait for things to change
238
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:43,660
or do we fight back?
239
00:12:43,860 --> 00:12:45,580
And in your eyes, robbing banks
240
00:12:45,780 --> 00:12:47,540
is a way of fighting back?
241
00:12:47,740 --> 00:12:50,080
No, robbing
banks was never the point.
242
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:51,660
Then what is?
243
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:55,670
Yeah. You'll see.
244
00:12:58,170 --> 00:12:59,510
Yeah, payback's coming.
245
00:12:59,710 --> 00:13:01,300
It's coming sooner
than you think.
246
00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:08,260
Look, we've been
talking now for 20 hours.
247
00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:11,560
And it seems to
me that you and I
248
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:12,826
aren't gonna agree on much.
249
00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:15,690
So maybe we could focus
250
00:13:15,890 --> 00:13:17,070
on what we do agree on.
251
00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:20,190
Yeah, like what?
252
00:13:21,650 --> 00:13:23,586
Like you and
your friends have robbed
253
00:13:23,610 --> 00:13:24,990
21 banks successfully,
254
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:26,750
nobody hurt, perfectly executed.
255
00:13:26,950 --> 00:13:28,750
No, I'm not admitting
the other banks.
256
00:13:28,950 --> 00:13:30,870
I'm not asking
you to do that.
257
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,250
But you see to the world
right now, you're a legend.
258
00:13:35,450 --> 00:13:38,170
You're Robin Hood, 22
banks and you haven't
259
00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:40,840
hurt a single person.
260
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,220
Now you'll do a few
years' time for sure.
261
00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:45,260
But then, who knows?
262
00:13:45,460 --> 00:13:47,770
Maybe you'd sell
your movie rights
263
00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:50,480
to Hollywood and go sip
margaritas on a beach.
264
00:13:52,510 --> 00:13:56,650
But the second
you take someone's life,
265
00:13:56,850 --> 00:13:59,360
you are just another murderer.
266
00:14:00,780 --> 00:14:02,820
And nobody will care
267
00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:05,620
what you have to say ever again.
268
00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:09,660
You come out of that bank and
you're gonna have options.
269
00:14:09,860 --> 00:14:13,210
You come out of that bank,
you're gonna have a future.
270
00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:16,880
You want people to hear
what you have to say,
271
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,960
then come out of the bank.
272
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,060
Don't
shoot! Unarmed! Unarmed!
273
00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:33,390
Clear!
Get down on your knees.
274
00:14:34,850 --> 00:14:36,560
Hands on your head.
275
00:14:37,770 --> 00:14:39,310
Interlace your fingers.
276
00:14:44,070 --> 00:14:46,330
Our best strategy is
going to be to convince
277
00:14:46,530 --> 00:14:49,450
the jury that David
Koresh was misunderstood.
278
00:14:49,650 --> 00:14:51,490
We need to humanize
him, make him seem less
279
00:14:51,530 --> 00:14:53,540
like the boogeyman,
more relatable.
280
00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:55,040
David Koresh was
281
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,540
an opportunistic
narcissistic piece of shit.
282
00:14:57,750 --> 00:15:00,630
We're not in the business
of defending Koresh.
283
00:15:00,830 --> 00:15:02,340
He's dead.
284
00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:03,760
Well, if that's how you feel,
285
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,266
then why'd you even
take this case?
286
00:15:05,290 --> 00:15:07,300
The issue can't
be whether or not
287
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:08,760
Koresh was the messiah.
288
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,390
If that's our case,
then they win,
289
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:13,140
because guess what?
290
00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:14,560
He wasn't.
291
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,860
Our case has to
be about the fact
292
00:15:17,060 --> 00:15:18,650
the United States government
293
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:21,190
raided these people's
home without cause.
294
00:15:21,390 --> 00:15:23,950
And it was their
overreach, their hubris
295
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:27,120
that led to the deaths of 76
people including 17 children.
296
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,200
And in America, you
don't get to do that
297
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,676
because, if they can do
what they did to our clients
298
00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:33,710
and get away with it,
it'll give everyone
299
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:36,460
with a badge and a gun from
a Wackenhut security guard
300
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:38,540
to Janet Reno the authority
301
00:15:38,740 --> 00:15:40,210
to do whatever they want,
302
00:15:40,410 --> 00:15:41,410
to whomever they want,
303
00:15:41,580 --> 00:15:43,130
however they want.
304
00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:46,550
And that's the argument
we need to make.
305
00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:48,390
- Amen.
- Yeah.
306
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:52,310
What in the hell is
that asshole doing here?
307
00:15:52,510 --> 00:15:54,030
You get lost,
Johnston, or are you,
308
00:15:54,180 --> 00:15:56,230
uh, here to beg for mercy?
309
00:15:56,430 --> 00:16:00,440
Neither. I've got
an offer for you.
310
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,690
They're offering 15 years
with the possibility of parole.
311
00:16:03,890 --> 00:16:06,740
What would I have to do
if I did take the deal?
312
00:16:06,940 --> 00:16:09,240
You'd have to plead
guilty and then testify
313
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,870
against the other
members of your group.
314
00:16:12,070 --> 00:16:14,200
No, wait, wait, wait.
315
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,840
Before you close
your mind to it,
316
00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:17,550
you should know
that they've offered
317
00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:19,420
the same deal to
all five of you.
318
00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:21,710
If you don't take it,
you face the possibility
319
00:16:21,910 --> 00:16:23,500
of life without parole.
320
00:16:24,750 --> 00:16:27,260
But I didn't do anything.
321
00:16:27,460 --> 00:16:30,350
Clive, unfortunately,
that doesn't matter.
322
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:32,260
It's a conspiracy charge.
323
00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:35,390
If any single one of
you is found guilty,
324
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:37,730
then you're all guilty.
325
00:16:37,930 --> 00:16:40,940
If any one of you pulled
the trigger of a gun,
326
00:16:41,140 --> 00:16:43,110
then you all pulled the trigger.
327
00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:45,280
You're gonna rise
and fall together.
328
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,780
You got until opening
statements to decide
329
00:16:47,980 --> 00:16:50,530
and then the deal's
off the table.
330
00:16:52,030 --> 00:16:54,370
Here is
what is going to happen.
331
00:16:54,570 --> 00:16:56,790
Instead of arguing
about this juror
332
00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:58,250
or that juror,
333
00:16:58,450 --> 00:17:01,040
going back and
forth, you, then you.
334
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,800
I am gonna save us
a whole lot of time
335
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,470
and the American taxpayer
336
00:17:06,670 --> 00:17:08,630
a lot of money and help
pick the jury myself.
337
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:09,760
So you can all relax.
338
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:11,640
Objection, Your Honor.
339
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:13,810
You can't object to
me. I'm the judge.
340
00:17:14,010 --> 00:17:15,850
Well, then, uh, exception.
341
00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:18,350
Noted.
342
00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:23,390
Can he do that?
343
00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:30,530
How do you feel about
people who join a cult?
344
00:17:30,730 --> 00:17:31,780
Objection.
345
00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:34,990
Exception, Your Hon... shit.
346
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:36,296
How do you feel
347
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,960
about people who join
348
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,420
extremist religious groups?
349
00:17:40,620 --> 00:17:43,170
I do have negative
feelings towards people
350
00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:47,010
who abuse children if
that's what you're asking.
351
00:17:47,210 --> 00:17:48,930
Or people who give
their sense of choice
352
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,340
over to false prophets.
353
00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:53,180
You can stay.
354
00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:55,680
So, Clive, how'd
you come to be here?
355
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,230
My mom and I heard some
of Lois's teachings,
356
00:17:58,430 --> 00:18:00,680
so we followed that
message all the way here.
357
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,440
That was 15 years ago.
358
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:04,946
All the
way from Australia?
359
00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:07,030
I don't think I'll ever leave.
360
00:18:07,230 --> 00:18:08,690
Wow.
361
00:18:10,780 --> 00:18:13,450
How about you? What
brought you here?
362
00:18:13,650 --> 00:18:14,900
Me?
363
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,080
Well, I learned to read
by reading the Bible.
364
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,670
I can't see so well, you
know, all the letters
365
00:18:21,870 --> 00:18:24,840
get mixed up and stuff, so I
have trouble reading books,
366
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,960
but the Bible.
367
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,500
Man, I could just sit
and read it like magic.
368
00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:32,800
And you know what struck me?
369
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,350
Huh.
370
00:18:35,550 --> 00:18:38,180
I mean, for years, I asked
anyone who might know,
371
00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:40,560
"Hey, what happened to
all those old prophets?
372
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,310
Are there any still living now?
373
00:18:42,510 --> 00:18:45,060
Or did they all get stuck
here in this old book?"
374
00:18:45,260 --> 00:18:46,730
And they'd say, "Quiet, boy.
375
00:18:46,930 --> 00:18:48,206
Sit down and listen to
what we're teachin'."
376
00:18:49,940 --> 00:18:51,916
But nobody could
answer that one question.
377
00:18:51,940 --> 00:18:54,410
So I turned to God
and I asked Him,
378
00:18:54,610 --> 00:18:58,910
"Please, if there's a prophet,
please lead me there."
379
00:19:00,490 --> 00:19:02,540
Then three days later,
out of the blue,
380
00:19:02,740 --> 00:19:04,506
my grandma tells me about
some prophet out here
381
00:19:04,530 --> 00:19:06,330
on the plains of Waco.
382
00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:08,340
Her name was Lois Roden,
383
00:19:08,540 --> 00:19:10,630
and she lived at a place
called Mount Carmel.
384
00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:15,340
Went to my room,
packed my stuff,
385
00:19:15,540 --> 00:19:17,130
got here as fast as I could.
386
00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:22,510
That's... like a miracle.
387
00:19:24,020 --> 00:19:27,190
Yeah, that's what I thought too.
388
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,700
Did they offer you
all the plea deal too?
389
00:19:43,870 --> 00:19:45,310
My lawyer told me
the worst thing
390
00:19:45,450 --> 00:19:46,676
that could happen
is someone else
391
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:48,210
taking the deal if I don't.
392
00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:54,630
Man, the government wants
their pound of flesh
393
00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:56,220
and they're gonna get it
394
00:19:56,420 --> 00:19:58,066
if we don't stay strong
and stick together.
395
00:19:58,090 --> 00:19:59,810
Look around this room.
396
00:20:00,010 --> 00:20:02,640
Do you expect anyone is
actually going to think
397
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,390
Clive shot federal
agents in cold blood?
398
00:20:06,430 --> 00:20:08,150
Or Ruth?
399
00:20:08,350 --> 00:20:10,570
It doesn't matter
what they think.
400
00:20:10,770 --> 00:20:13,070
If they think any of us
did it, then we all did it.
401
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:14,650
I wasn't even there.
402
00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:18,410
Do you think any of
this is about truth?
403
00:20:18,610 --> 00:20:20,660
Or fairness? Or justice?
Because it's not.
404
00:20:20,860 --> 00:20:22,580
It is about anger.
405
00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:26,500
They are gonna roll over
us no matter what we do.
406
00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:27,886
So we may as well
get through this
407
00:20:27,910 --> 00:20:30,290
with our dignity intact.
408
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,670
The government can make up
whatever story they want
409
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:37,130
about what happened
inside Mount Carmel,
410
00:20:37,330 --> 00:20:39,470
but no one knows what you did
411
00:20:39,670 --> 00:20:41,850
or didn't do behind
closed doors,
412
00:20:42,050 --> 00:20:44,980
nobody but the
people in this room.
413
00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:47,140
So if we stay united
414
00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:49,730
and refute their story, then...
415
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,020
maybe we have a chance.
416
00:21:17,670 --> 00:21:19,460
Oh, shit.
417
00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:26,060
Hey, Dusty, mind if I pick
your brain about something?
418
00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:28,640
I was looking at
Wild Bill's file.
419
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,736
Why? We already
put him in jail.
420
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,230
Well, Wild Bill and his friends
successfully robbed 21 banks.
421
00:21:34,430 --> 00:21:35,610
But in their files,
422
00:21:35,810 --> 00:21:36,916
it doesn't seem as
though they made
423
00:21:36,940 --> 00:21:39,400
any conspicuous purchases.
424
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,910
That, combined with his
comment about "payback,"
425
00:21:42,110 --> 00:21:43,580
it was bugging me
426
00:21:43,780 --> 00:21:45,216
and I wanted to make sure
I wasn't missing anything.
427
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,870
So I took a closer
look and I found this.
428
00:21:49,070 --> 00:21:50,410
What am I looking at?
429
00:21:51,370 --> 00:21:52,960
You see that flag?
430
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,420
That's the same flag they
flew over at Mount Carmel.
431
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:58,800
David Koresh
designed it himself.
432
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,380
Huh.
433
00:22:00,580 --> 00:22:04,300
Did Wild Bill have some
connection to Waco?
434
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:06,100
I doubt it.
435
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:09,100
The flag is probably used
more as a recruitment tool
436
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:11,850
to fire people up.
437
00:22:12,050 --> 00:22:14,440
Any sense
where that photo was taken?
438
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,020
It doesn't say in the file.
439
00:22:17,730 --> 00:22:19,360
It looks like Elohim City to me.
440
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,030
It's a town of sorts.
441
00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:24,570
Started in the early '70s by
a group of former Mennonites,
442
00:22:24,770 --> 00:22:26,930
which gave birth to the
Christian Identity movement,
443
00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:28,250
which is, basically...
444
00:22:28,450 --> 00:22:29,546
Christianity for
White Supremacists.
445
00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:31,210
Uh-hmm.
446
00:22:31,410 --> 00:22:33,386
We'd need a serious warrant and
a small army to go in there.
447
00:22:33,410 --> 00:22:35,806
Something which, after Waco, I
don't think any of our bosses
448
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:37,540
would be willing to
take a chance on.
449
00:22:42,090 --> 00:22:44,670
Clive Doyle,
you have a visitor.
450
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,140
Let's go.
451
00:22:52,930 --> 00:22:54,310
Some of the other families
452
00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:56,150
mentioned something
about a plea deal?
453
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,200
It's true. They've offered one.
454
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,530
I'm not sure I'm gonna
take the deal, Karen.
455
00:23:07,410 --> 00:23:08,450
Why not?
456
00:23:10,990 --> 00:23:13,960
Because they want us to
say it was our fault.
457
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,160
And it wasn't.
458
00:23:15,330 --> 00:23:17,160
Just get out, Dad.
459
00:23:18,790 --> 00:23:22,760
Shari's gone, everything's gone.
460
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,180
How much more do you feel
like you have to suffer?
461
00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:27,760
I loved David too,
but it's over!
462
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:28,960
I need my father back.
463
00:23:29,050 --> 00:23:30,640
I know, but...
464
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,100
You've already lost, Dad.
465
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,680
There's no more
point in fighting it.
466
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,770
Anne...
467
00:23:42,650 --> 00:23:44,530
she needs her grandfather.
468
00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:48,110
What?
469
00:23:49,660 --> 00:23:52,620
Really?
470
00:23:58,710 --> 00:24:00,500
There's your rose.
471
00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:03,550
Is it?
472
00:24:28,860 --> 00:24:30,700
It's 15
years of loyalty,
473
00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:33,750
15 years of putting my life
on the line and then for what?
474
00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:35,160
For what?
475
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:36,596
Hey, hey, get your
hands off me, man.
476
00:24:36,620 --> 00:24:37,830
Get off me.
477
00:24:45,210 --> 00:24:47,170
- Weren't you...
- Yeah.
478
00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:49,890
Yeah, yeah, we've met.
479
00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:51,380
Right.
480
00:24:56,220 --> 00:24:57,720
Do you wanna get a drink?
481
00:24:59,020 --> 00:25:00,190
On the fire ants?
482
00:25:00,390 --> 00:25:02,860
On the goddamn fire ants.
483
00:25:03,060 --> 00:25:05,240
Oh, Jesus.
484
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,536
I mean, why anybody would
build their heaven on earth
485
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,150
on top of a goddamn fire
ant hill is just beyond me.
486
00:25:14,570 --> 00:25:15,966
So, come on, why'd...
why did you...
487
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:17,370
Why did you ask me here?
488
00:25:17,570 --> 00:25:19,750
Come on, I know it wasn't
to talk about fire ants.
489
00:25:22,290 --> 00:25:24,420
Because my wife thinks
I should talk to someone
490
00:25:24,620 --> 00:25:25,710
and, uh...
491
00:25:27,250 --> 00:25:28,550
there aren't a lot of people
492
00:25:28,750 --> 00:25:30,760
who know what it was
like to be there.
493
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,470
You have regrets?
494
00:25:33,670 --> 00:25:36,640
I just keep wondering if
I did this differently
495
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,480
or if I said that differently,
496
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,200
then maybe things could've
turned out different, you know.
497
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:43,390
Yeah, I do that too.
498
00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:47,900
And then there are times that
I wonder if you were just...
499
00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:51,410
just damned from the start.
500
00:25:51,610 --> 00:25:53,050
We weren't damned
from the start.
501
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:55,450
We damned ourselves
through our own stupidity.
502
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,950
Mmm.
503
00:25:58,150 --> 00:26:00,120
What do you know
about Elohim City?
504
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,080
I know they're a bunch
of racist assholes,
505
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,556
but other than that, you
know, it's not my department,
506
00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:07,920
so I don't really
pay attention to it.
507
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,880
But this man from Elohim
City, he was so angry.
508
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,720
Uh-hmm.
509
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,930
And I just keep
thinking about the...
510
00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:18,640
people protesting at
the barricades at Waco
511
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,770
and I just feel this...
512
00:26:23,890 --> 00:26:27,440
this undercurrent
of rage in America.
513
00:26:30,980 --> 00:26:33,870
And I think we helped
create the monster
514
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:35,860
we're trying to stop.
515
00:26:43,660 --> 00:26:46,210
Look, I know someone working
the Elohim City case.
516
00:26:46,410 --> 00:26:48,670
And, uh, I might be
able to set you up.
517
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:57,470
This is blasphemy!
518
00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:00,520
I won't stand for it.
519
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,020
I speak the truth.
520
00:27:02,220 --> 00:27:03,650
God handles the consequences.
521
00:27:03,850 --> 00:27:07,270
George, the Holy
Spirit is feminine.
522
00:27:07,470 --> 00:27:09,610
We live in a male
dominated society
523
00:27:09,810 --> 00:27:12,280
and it has resulted in a
male dominated translation
524
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,820
of the Bible.
525
00:27:14,020 --> 00:27:17,280
There is the Father,
there is the Son,
526
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,910
and the Holy Spirit is mother.
527
00:27:20,530 --> 00:27:21,870
Lois is right.
528
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:25,830
What did you just say?
529
00:27:27,290 --> 00:27:29,210
I said, "Lois is right."
530
00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:30,960
I never saw it before
531
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,300
but she's mentioned all
over the Old Testament.
532
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:35,050
Proverbs 31:25,
533
00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:36,856
"She is clothed with
strength and dignity,
534
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,970
and she laughs without
fear of the future."
535
00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:40,430
Proverbs 31:10,
536
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:42,106
"She is far more
precious than jewels."
537
00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:43,600
Psalms 46:5,
538
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,120
"God is in the midst of her;
she shall not be moved."
539
00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:48,190
- Quiet!
- Proverbs 31:26,
540
00:27:48,390 --> 00:27:50,190
"She opens her
mouth with wisdom,
541
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:53,190
and the teaching of
kindness is on her tongue."
542
00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:56,070
Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22.
543
00:27:56,270 --> 00:27:57,916
There are dozens of
examples in the Bible
544
00:27:57,940 --> 00:28:00,740
where the Holy Spirit
is referred to as "she".
545
00:28:00,940 --> 00:28:03,100
I mean, George, are you
saying the Bible is wrong?
546
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,790
No.
547
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:08,590
Of course, I'm not saying
the Bible is wrong.
548
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:32,530
Probably won't get you laid,
549
00:28:32,730 --> 00:28:34,520
but it'll make you
look more respectable.
550
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:41,490
Have you decided
on the plea deal?
551
00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:44,000
This is your last
chance to take it.
552
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,080
You should be
more careful with George.
553
00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:51,790
He can be pretty mean.
554
00:28:53,790 --> 00:28:56,300
I'm not worried about
old George Roden.
555
00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:58,140
He's not the first
bully I dealt with.
556
00:28:58,210 --> 00:29:00,720
I'm sure he won't be the last.
557
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,810
"So do not fear,
for I am with you.
558
00:29:03,010 --> 00:29:05,140
Do not be dismayed,
for I am your God.
559
00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:07,690
I will strengthen you
and I will help you.
560
00:29:07,890 --> 00:29:10,900
I will uphold you with
my righteous right hand."
561
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,270
Isaiah said that.
562
00:29:13,470 --> 00:29:15,530
You can go hide all your life,
563
00:29:15,730 --> 00:29:17,200
but then the whole world
564
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,950
winds up getting run by the
George Rodens everywhere.
565
00:29:20,150 --> 00:29:21,620
That's no way to
please the Lord.
566
00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:22,910
No.
567
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:24,790
You gotta show that faith.
568
00:29:24,990 --> 00:29:26,790
You got to show
it by standing up,
569
00:29:26,990 --> 00:29:29,830
by doing what's right,
570
00:29:30,030 --> 00:29:31,466
regardless of what
all them bullies
571
00:29:31,490 --> 00:29:33,170
tell you what they
think you should do.
572
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:36,766
It's just that
George is sick in the head.
573
00:29:36,790 --> 00:29:38,220
He's... he's violent.
574
00:29:38,420 --> 00:29:40,510
You don't understand
what he's capable of.
575
00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:55,310
He doesn't know what
I'm capable of either.
576
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,360
I'm stronger than they realize.
577
00:30:02,150 --> 00:30:05,200
And so are you, Clive Doyle.
578
00:30:09,370 --> 00:30:11,160
I don't give in to bullies.
579
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:16,710
It's our job to do what's right.
580
00:30:16,910 --> 00:30:19,210
And it's God's job
to sort out the rest.
581
00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:24,050
Okay, then let's
go give 'em hell.
582
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:52,296
So, I've
just had breakfast
583
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:53,920
with defendant Schroeder,
584
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,266
and she's going to be playing
for the home team now,
585
00:30:56,290 --> 00:30:58,880
so get some statements
over...
586
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,800
But I just wanted to
let you know for now.
587
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,840
Good
morning, by the way.
588
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,440
Kathy Schroeder just flipped.
589
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:15,730
She took the plea deal
590
00:31:15,930 --> 00:31:18,150
and she's turning
state's witness.
591
00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:20,150
Kathy's going to
testify against us?
592
00:31:20,350 --> 00:31:21,350
Yeah.
593
00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:32,910
Now this is
a simple story...
594
00:31:33,790 --> 00:31:35,620
with two clear sides.
595
00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:38,880
The government agents
596
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,040
who went in to serve a
legal search warrant...
597
00:31:43,460 --> 00:31:47,300
and the Branch Davidians,
led by David Koresh,
598
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:51,680
who adhered to a
philosophy of death.
599
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,190
A philosophy that led Koresh
600
00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:57,060
to train his people for battle
601
00:31:57,260 --> 00:31:58,730
and arm them for war,
602
00:31:58,930 --> 00:32:02,320
so that when those agents
approached Mount Carmel
603
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,660
to do their legal duty,
604
00:32:05,860 --> 00:32:09,700
the defendants laid in wait
with guns in their hands.
605
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:12,290
And when the agents
got close enough,
606
00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:15,040
the Branch Davidians
opened fire,
607
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,380
murdering four federal officers
608
00:32:18,580 --> 00:32:20,380
in cold blood.
609
00:32:20,580 --> 00:32:22,790
These men and women
aren't killers.
610
00:32:24,340 --> 00:32:25,710
They're victims.
611
00:32:28,090 --> 00:32:32,470
First, they were
victimized by David Koresh,
612
00:32:32,670 --> 00:32:36,810
a charismatic con man
who brainwashed them
613
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,730
into believing he was
a messiah on earth.
614
00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:52,410
And then they were
victimized by the ATF,
615
00:32:53,530 --> 00:32:55,870
who led an unnecessary
616
00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:58,120
ill-advised assault
on their home
617
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,380
that left 76 of their
friends and family,
618
00:33:01,580 --> 00:33:04,380
and even their children, dead.
619
00:33:04,580 --> 00:33:06,436
You're making
us look like sheep,
620
00:33:06,460 --> 00:33:08,130
like we just blindly
followed David
621
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:09,800
with no minds of our own.
622
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,856
This isn't the strategy
we talked about before.
623
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,260
We weren't brainwashed.
624
00:33:13,460 --> 00:33:15,560
We were defending
something real.
625
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:16,890
We all believed in
626
00:33:17,090 --> 00:33:18,196
because we saw it
with our own eyes.
627
00:33:18,220 --> 00:33:21,270
My husband was shot dead
628
00:33:21,470 --> 00:33:22,770
and ripped to pieces
629
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:25,610
by a government tank
because of those beliefs.
630
00:33:25,810 --> 00:33:27,780
It's not just the four
of us on trial here.
631
00:33:27,980 --> 00:33:31,950
When you say that what
we believe in is stupid,
632
00:33:32,150 --> 00:33:34,040
you're saying that the
people that we loved
633
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,200
who burned in that
building died for nothing.
634
00:33:37,410 --> 00:33:39,420
I don't give a rat's
ass about your religion.
635
00:33:39,620 --> 00:33:42,040
And frankly, I don't even
care if you look sane.
636
00:33:43,670 --> 00:33:46,630
All I care about is
keeping you out of jail.
637
00:33:46,830 --> 00:33:48,210
That's my only focus here.
638
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,970
And our defense
tactics have to change,
639
00:33:52,170 --> 00:33:54,340
because Kathy Schroeder
flipped on you.
640
00:33:56,050 --> 00:33:58,100
Before, you were
all a united front,
641
00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:01,020
whatever the prosecutor said
happened at Mount Carmel,
642
00:34:01,220 --> 00:34:03,020
was speculation.
643
00:34:03,220 --> 00:34:06,320
Now, one of your own is going
to corroborate their claims.
644
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,900
Kathy is gonna tell the jury
that she passed out guns
645
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:11,140
to each and every one
of you during the siege.
646
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:13,200
I wasn't even there.
647
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,530
Well, then she's gonna
say you bought the guns,
648
00:34:15,740 --> 00:34:17,676
make you into an arms
dealer with a death wish.
649
00:34:17,700 --> 00:34:21,830
She's gonna turn the rest of
you into an army out for blood.
650
00:34:22,030 --> 00:34:26,130
So if-if we can't say
you never held a gun,
651
00:34:26,330 --> 00:34:28,090
we have to make the jury believe
652
00:34:28,290 --> 00:34:30,760
that you had no choice
but to pick one up.
653
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,010
You had no choice but
to protect yourselves,
654
00:34:34,210 --> 00:34:37,260
because David Koresh
conditioned you
655
00:34:37,470 --> 00:34:39,180
to do whatever he said,
656
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:41,980
and the government charged in
trying to kill your children.
657
00:34:42,140 --> 00:34:44,520
But we didn't just do
whatever he told us to do.
658
00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:46,400
- We-we made choices.
- Yeah, look,
659
00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:48,610
you can be as pissed as
you want at me in here,
660
00:34:48,810 --> 00:34:50,320
but when we're in
that courtroom,
661
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,490
you need to sit there, and
you need to look sorry.
662
00:34:54,690 --> 00:34:56,580
You need to stop
shaking your head
663
00:34:56,780 --> 00:34:59,450
and-and stop glowering
at the prosecutors.
664
00:34:59,650 --> 00:35:03,170
And you, you need
to wear a dress.
665
00:35:03,370 --> 00:35:05,630
Yeah, something that
makes you look softer
666
00:35:05,830 --> 00:35:07,250
and more vulnerable.
667
00:35:07,450 --> 00:35:08,670
I don't wear dresses.
668
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:10,390
Well, then
we'll get you one.
669
00:35:10,540 --> 00:35:12,220
But you need to start
doing your part.
670
00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:15,090
You need to start
acting like the victim.
671
00:35:17,340 --> 00:35:19,800
You need to be
honest about who you are.
672
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,850
Proverbs speaks to this,
673
00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:24,770
calling for insight,
674
00:35:24,970 --> 00:35:28,440
not being afraid
to ask for help,
675
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,980
so that we can better
understand ourselves.
676
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,700
Vernon, what are
you struggling with?
677
00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:38,240
How can we help you?
678
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:45,080
I struggle with my own desires,
679
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,580
which I feel so
strong sometimes.
680
00:35:48,670 --> 00:35:50,420
What kind of desires?
681
00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:53,670
Pleasure of the flesh.
682
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,850
Sometimes it's so strong,
683
00:35:58,050 --> 00:36:00,470
I have to relieve that
pressure several times a day.
684
00:36:00,670 --> 00:36:01,670
Oh!
685
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:04,350
It's okay. It's okay.
686
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:06,560
You should feel
comfortable to share.
687
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,270
You shouldn't feel embarrassed.
688
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:10,350
I never said I was embarrassed.
689
00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:15,820
Everyone has their
own struggles.
690
00:36:16,940 --> 00:36:19,240
No temptation has overtaken you
691
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,990
that is not common to man.
692
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:23,870
God is faithful.
693
00:36:24,070 --> 00:36:26,546
He will not let you be tempted
beyond your ability, but...
694
00:36:26,570 --> 00:36:27,830
But with that temptation,
695
00:36:28,030 --> 00:36:29,870
He will also provide
the way of escape.
696
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:33,260
Corinthians 10:13.
697
00:36:33,460 --> 00:36:35,930
But when that temptation
comes over me,
698
00:36:36,130 --> 00:36:39,430
I wonder if she's ever known
loving hands on her body,
699
00:36:39,630 --> 00:36:42,140
if she's ever felt true pleasure
700
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:46,140
and I'm overcome...
701
00:36:46,340 --> 00:36:50,100
with desire until I feel
like I might go mad.
702
00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:55,780
You were, uh...
703
00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:57,780
You were pretty
honest at Bible study.
704
00:36:57,940 --> 00:37:00,030
I promised myself
that when I came here,
705
00:37:00,230 --> 00:37:02,070
I wouldn't hold back
any bit of myself...
706
00:37:03,490 --> 00:37:05,080
even those little ugly parts
707
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,561
that I'd rather sometimes
just sweep under the rug.
708
00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:12,790
I... I felt the same
way when I came here.
709
00:37:14,250 --> 00:37:16,250
Like I wanted to
give all of myself.
710
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,420
Kindred spirits, I guess.
711
00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:26,500
- Looks good over here.
- Oh, do you need me?
712
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,440
Not just yet.
713
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,600
Actually, uh, I just came
over to talk to Vernon.
714
00:37:33,940 --> 00:37:36,490
Uh, Vernon,
715
00:37:36,690 --> 00:37:40,200
I'm getting ready to go on
my yearly trip to Israel.
716
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,870
And I think you
should join me...
717
00:37:43,070 --> 00:37:44,070
to study.
718
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,600
Nothing would give
me more pleasure
719
00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:56,880
than learning right
from your hands.
720
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,050
Good.
721
00:38:00,460 --> 00:38:01,970
That's settled then.
722
00:38:02,170 --> 00:38:04,050
Dramatic music plays
723
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:30,920
Hi. Uh, excuse
me. Are you Angie?
724
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,210
Jacob sent me.
725
00:38:32,410 --> 00:38:33,540
- Oh, yes.
- Yeah.
726
00:38:33,740 --> 00:38:34,740
- Gary?
- Right.
727
00:38:34,830 --> 00:38:35,830
- Okay. Hi.
- Yeah.
728
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,800
So you drew the
short straw, huh?
729
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,050
Yeah. Our informant's
name is Carol Howe.
730
00:38:41,250 --> 00:38:44,050
And, um, we didn't know
how seriously to take her
731
00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:47,600
because she's not the most
reliable-seeming informant.
732
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,680
Uh-hmm.
733
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,560
How'd she wind up
here in the hospital?
734
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,900
Did they find out she was
informing and hurt her?
735
00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:55,560
Actually, kind of the opposite.
736
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,196
No, Wild Bill actually
beat her up pretty bad
737
00:38:57,220 --> 00:38:58,580
- before the robbery...
- Uh-hmm.
738
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,520
And she got pissed,
so she tipped us off
739
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,950
- as a way to get revenge.
- Mmm.
740
00:39:03,150 --> 00:39:05,240
She's not a big
fan of authority,
741
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,740
to say the least, and,
uh, she's a bit erratic.
742
00:39:08,940 --> 00:39:10,250
How so?
743
00:39:10,450 --> 00:39:13,370
God damn it! Come on!
744
00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:17,170
TV signal's shit in here, Angie.
745
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,170
Hey there, Carol. I'm Gary.
746
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,510
How's Wild Bill?
747
00:39:25,710 --> 00:39:27,260
Did he ask about me?
748
00:39:27,460 --> 00:39:29,100
He lawyered
up pretty quickly,
749
00:39:29,170 --> 00:39:31,560
so I honestly don't know
what he's asking about.
750
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,560
- Is he doing okay?
- Yeah,
751
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,560
for someone who's gonna spend
ten to twenty years in prison.
752
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,940
I didn't mean to get
him locked up that long.
753
00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:41,536
But that asshole shouldn't have
laid his hands on me like that.
754
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,230
You don't mess
with a lady's face!
755
00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:45,240
That's right.
756
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,240
That's right.
757
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:47,440
Uh-hmm.
758
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:51,410
So Wild Bill had
made some allusions
759
00:39:51,610 --> 00:39:54,250
to some kind of payback
against the government.
760
00:39:54,450 --> 00:39:57,170
Did he ever speak to you
about anything like that?
761
00:39:57,370 --> 00:39:59,500
Gary?
762
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:01,590
I ain't some kind of narc.
763
00:40:01,790 --> 00:40:04,340
I'm just a person who's sick
of her boyfriend's shit.
764
00:40:04,540 --> 00:40:05,800
Yeah, fair enough.
765
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,970
But, uh, I'd say
there's a difference
766
00:40:08,170 --> 00:40:10,140
between being a narc
and saving the lives
767
00:40:10,340 --> 00:40:12,140
of innocent people.
768
00:40:14,890 --> 00:40:16,600
Ain't nobody innocent.
769
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:19,600
Really?
770
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,700
Well, what about Elohim City?
Did you hear anyone there...
771
00:40:25,900 --> 00:40:29,280
speak about some sort
of planned payback?
772
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:35,830
I don't know about Elohim City.
773
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,390
Come on, Carol,
this is important.
774
00:40:48,590 --> 00:40:50,470
I'm trying to keep
people from getting hurt.
775
00:40:57,850 --> 00:40:58,850
Dammit.
776
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:01,960
I don't... the
people you're asking
777
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:03,440
about at Elohim City,
778
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,480
they didn't really
talk to me much, okay?
779
00:41:07,150 --> 00:41:09,431
And I never heard anything
specific about anything,
780
00:41:09,610 --> 00:41:11,490
but I will tell you...
781
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,006
they talk a lot about
how the government
782
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:16,370
has turned on them.
783
00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:22,920
They talk about
a holy war that's coming.
784
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,760
And they're gonna be
on the frontlines.
785
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,430
But that's nothing on its own.
786
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:31,220
You know, I know plenty of
people who talk like that.
787
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,600
But the thing about
Elohim City is,
788
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,560
it's full of people who
tend to mean what they say.
789
00:41:41,730 --> 00:41:43,730
What does
that mean exactly?
790
00:41:46,770 --> 00:41:48,570
It means if payback is coming,
791
00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:50,810
then I would guess it's
gonna come from there.
792
00:41:56,570 --> 00:41:57,660
Yeah.
793
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,570
Nowhere
to run to, uh, uh
794
00:42:27,770 --> 00:42:32,740
Nowhere to hide58833
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