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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,230 --> 00:00:07,956 Once negotiations broke down, 2 00:00:07,980 --> 00:00:09,740 we were left with little choice. 3 00:00:09,940 --> 00:00:11,950 The decision was made for us to insert gas 4 00:00:12,150 --> 00:00:14,870 in an effort to coerce those on the inside to come out. 5 00:00:16,910 --> 00:00:20,130 We followed protocol to a T. 6 00:00:20,330 --> 00:00:23,460 The Davidians were raining down gunfire on my men. 7 00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:25,436 It looked like Christmas out there with bullets hitting 8 00:00:25,460 --> 00:00:28,640 our tanks, and my men showed such restraint. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,760 Not a single shot was returned from the FBI. 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,600 Now with that being said, are there tactics 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,180 or decisions that you would've made differently? 12 00:00:40,430 --> 00:00:41,770 Not a one. 13 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:44,440 Not a one, huh? 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,280 This is not an assault. 15 00:00:46,390 --> 00:00:48,570 The siege is over now. 16 00:00:51,530 --> 00:00:54,740 The gas you will be smelling is a non-lethal tear gas. 17 00:00:54,940 --> 00:00:56,620 Exit the compound. 18 00:00:56,820 --> 00:00:58,260 M60 vehicle, 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:00:59,830 this combat engineering vehicle, 20 00:01:00,030 --> 00:01:01,500 uh, pumped tear gas... 21 00:01:04,790 --> 00:01:07,470 Gary, the Davidians had a death wish. 22 00:01:07,670 --> 00:01:09,510 That's not on the FBI. 23 00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:12,026 This thing was never gonna turn out any different than it did. 24 00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:13,890 If anything, we should've gone in sooner, 25 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:15,520 once we realized that negotiations 26 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:16,880 weren't yielding any results. 27 00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:18,810 - No results? - Yeah. 28 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,020 You know I seem to recall negotiating 35 people out 29 00:01:25,230 --> 00:01:27,900 of that building safely, including 21 children. 30 00:01:28,100 --> 00:01:30,530 You're acting like we rushed in. 31 00:01:30,730 --> 00:01:33,910 We waited 51 days, we gave you 51 days 32 00:01:34,110 --> 00:01:36,370 to try to talk 'em out, and you couldn't do it. 33 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,680 Why isn't anyone coming out? They should be coming out. 34 00:01:43,370 --> 00:01:44,570 No! 35 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,880 inside this building. 36 00:01:47,910 --> 00:01:49,630 Seventeen of those 95 people, children. 37 00:01:49,750 --> 00:01:50,550 Some 30... 38 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,890 - We give up. We give up. - Okay. 39 00:01:56,090 --> 00:01:57,090 Somebody help me! 40 00:01:57,130 --> 00:01:58,730 We got people down here! 41 00:01:58,930 --> 00:02:01,480 Wait! Wait! 42 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,730 You failed, you didn't do your job, so we had to do ours. 43 00:02:04,930 --> 00:02:07,070 Gentlemen, why don't we all take a break? 44 00:02:07,270 --> 00:02:08,570 Hmm? 45 00:02:08,770 --> 00:02:11,740 Give everyone a chance to cool down. 46 00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:14,700 Gary, you need to get your shit together. 47 00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:16,240 We need to come clean, Alan. 48 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,040 - Oh. - People are angry 49 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,926 about what happened in Waco, and they're scared 50 00:02:19,950 --> 00:02:23,160 because they think that we did it on purpose. 51 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,670 And we're too scared 52 00:02:25,870 --> 00:02:27,226 to tell them the truth, that they're wrong. 53 00:02:27,250 --> 00:02:29,420 It wasn't part of some master plan. 54 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:32,100 It was just a bunch of bad decisions and incompetence. 55 00:02:32,170 --> 00:02:33,930 Speak for yourself, Gary. 56 00:02:34,130 --> 00:02:35,890 Your men, they may have been incompetent. 57 00:02:36,090 --> 00:02:38,220 Mine sure weren't. 58 00:02:38,420 --> 00:02:40,270 Oh, yeah. 59 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:43,770 Well, the medal is in the mail, Mitch. 60 00:02:43,970 --> 00:02:45,786 Sunny day today. We can expect 61 00:02:45,810 --> 00:02:47,906 much, much more of the same over the next few days. 62 00:02:47,930 --> 00:02:49,786 You might wanna do some of those outdoor activities 63 00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:51,456 - you've been saving up for. - Thanks, Sammy. 64 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:52,576 Coming up next, 65 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:53,910 the trial of the Waco Five 66 00:02:54,110 --> 00:02:55,780 begins in San Antonio this week 67 00:02:55,980 --> 00:02:58,700 as a federal grand jury indicted five of the surviving 68 00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:02,040 Branch Davidians for unlawful possession of firearms, 69 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,080 and aiding in the murder of federal officers. 70 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,880 You ask me, 71 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,766 it's the FBI that should be standing trial, 72 00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:10,800 not those religious nuts. 73 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,920 Our government just went in there, 74 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,640 burned those people alive, women and children. 75 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,800 I think every ATF and FBI agent 76 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,050 at Waco should go to jail. 77 00:04:35,590 --> 00:04:37,050 - Noesner. - Yeah. 78 00:04:37,250 --> 00:04:38,550 It's been awhile. 79 00:04:38,750 --> 00:04:40,316 Oh yeah, sure has, since what? 80 00:04:40,340 --> 00:04:42,010 The, uh, Atlanta Prison Riots? 81 00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:43,686 No, I feel like I've seen you since. 82 00:04:43,710 --> 00:04:46,390 Oh, yeah? So, uh, what's on the menu today? 83 00:04:46,590 --> 00:04:49,520 Well, we got four guys wearing ex-presidents masks. 84 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,860 Oh, like that movie Point Break? 85 00:04:53,060 --> 00:04:54,610 Never said they were original. 86 00:04:54,810 --> 00:04:56,826 No, these guys have been running around all over, 87 00:04:56,850 --> 00:04:58,700 robbing banks in Oklahoma, 88 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:01,910 Arkansas, 21 in all. 89 00:05:02,110 --> 00:05:05,580 They're efficient, you know, smart, in and out, 90 seconds, 90 00:05:05,780 --> 00:05:08,290 so local authorities had had a hard time figuring out 91 00:05:08,490 --> 00:05:11,380 where they are until today when we got a last-minute tip 92 00:05:11,580 --> 00:05:14,550 that bank was gonna be their next target. 93 00:05:14,750 --> 00:05:16,476 Now, we managed to grab three of the guys, 94 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:18,970 but one of them has barricaded himself inside, 95 00:05:19,170 --> 00:05:20,550 and he has hostages. 96 00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:22,066 We feel all four of these guys are members 97 00:05:22,090 --> 00:05:23,850 of the Aryan Republican Army. 98 00:05:24,050 --> 00:05:26,680 Oh, great. Nazis. 99 00:05:31,810 --> 00:05:33,560 What? 100 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,036 Hi, my name's Gary. 101 00:05:35,060 --> 00:05:36,110 Who am I speaking with? 102 00:05:36,310 --> 00:05:38,110 People call me "Wild Bill". 103 00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:41,540 Well, Wild Bill, I'm here to help you. 104 00:05:41,650 --> 00:05:43,296 Yeah? Well, you can help me 105 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,410 by getting me a helicopter, 106 00:05:44,610 --> 00:05:45,790 and I want it now 107 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:47,470 or I'm gonna start killing people. 108 00:05:47,650 --> 00:05:49,636 And don't even think about trying to come in here 109 00:05:49,660 --> 00:05:51,136 because I got a pipe bomb and I will blow 110 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:52,960 this place sky high if you try it. 111 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,346 Let me look into getting you that helicopter. 112 00:05:54,370 --> 00:05:55,920 I'm serious! 113 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,080 I'm taking you seriously, Wild Bill. 114 00:05:58,210 --> 00:06:00,680 - Is Bomb Squad present? - Uh-hmm. 115 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,260 Good. Keep 'em ready. 116 00:06:04,170 --> 00:06:05,856 All right. So, uh, they're gonna need 117 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,486 a little time getting you that helicopter. 118 00:06:07,510 --> 00:06:09,390 - No. I want it now! - I do, too. 119 00:06:09,590 --> 00:06:11,590 But right now, the only available helicopter 120 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,100 is 50 miles away. 121 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:14,786 In the meantime, maybe you can tell me 122 00:06:14,810 --> 00:06:16,400 how you got into this mess? 123 00:06:17,690 --> 00:06:19,820 Yeah. I got into this mess 124 00:06:20,020 --> 00:06:23,700 because somebody has to fight back. 125 00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:26,990 You can only push people so far. 126 00:06:27,190 --> 00:06:28,620 That's very true. 127 00:07:29,050 --> 00:07:31,930 Who gave you permission to use that thing in here? 128 00:07:32,130 --> 00:07:35,560 I'm a big boy, I gave myself permission. 129 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,730 Machines are not allowed in here without a court order. 130 00:07:38,930 --> 00:07:41,650 Okay. Here's my court order. 131 00:07:41,850 --> 00:07:43,070 Funny. 132 00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:45,570 I don't see my signature on that. 133 00:07:48,530 --> 00:07:49,870 Judge Smith. 134 00:07:50,070 --> 00:07:54,080 I'm Dan Cogdell. I represent Clive Doyle. 135 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,790 You're not defending anybody with that thing in here. 136 00:07:56,990 --> 00:07:59,710 I want it gone by the time we begin. 137 00:07:59,910 --> 00:08:03,050 Uh, but, Your Honor, I have all my notes in it. 138 00:08:03,250 --> 00:08:04,686 Then I suggest you find a way 139 00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:06,590 to get your notes out of it. 140 00:08:10,340 --> 00:08:12,720 Oh, shit. 141 00:08:19,970 --> 00:08:22,320 Baby killers! 142 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:23,940 How come they hate us so much? 143 00:08:24,140 --> 00:08:25,360 They don't even know us. 144 00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:30,030 We'll be okay... 145 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:33,200 somehow. 146 00:08:39,250 --> 00:08:41,130 You wanted to present a motion? 147 00:08:41,870 --> 00:08:43,800 I did, Your Honor. 148 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,800 I would ask to predefine inflammatory words. 149 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,300 Inflammatory words? 150 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:50,800 Yes, Your Honor, we would move 151 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,640 to make certain words inadmissible. 152 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,140 Which words would you recommend we ban, Mr. Cogdell? 153 00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:59,900 Well, for example, 154 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:02,900 we would motion to exclude the word "compound" 155 00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:05,400 when referring to the home at Mount Carmel, 156 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,950 as the word "compound" has militaristic connotations. 157 00:09:08,150 --> 00:09:10,410 At this point the word "compound" has been used 158 00:09:10,610 --> 00:09:12,870 a million times to refer to Mount Carmel. 159 00:09:13,070 --> 00:09:15,080 But to the defendants this was not a compound, 160 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,620 this was their home 161 00:09:16,820 --> 00:09:18,420 where they lived and raised children, 162 00:09:18,570 --> 00:09:20,346 where they had a God-given right to practice their... 163 00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:23,000 Save it for the trial, Mr. Cogdell. 164 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,920 Denied. Next. 165 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,516 We would like to exclude the term 166 00:09:26,540 --> 00:09:27,920 "Branch Davidians". 167 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,646 They never call themselves by that name. 168 00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:31,090 Objection. 169 00:09:31,290 --> 00:09:32,816 If we can't call them Branch Davidians, 170 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,606 then what are we supposed to call them? 171 00:09:34,630 --> 00:09:36,106 - Out to lunch? - Well, I think 172 00:09:36,130 --> 00:09:37,520 we can all agree that moniker 173 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,196 has been thoroughly tarnished by the media. 174 00:09:39,220 --> 00:09:40,616 The term "Branch Davidian" 175 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,610 was tarnished by their own actions. 176 00:09:42,810 --> 00:09:45,020 But, Your Honor, they are not on trial 177 00:09:45,220 --> 00:09:46,650 for their religious beliefs. 178 00:09:46,850 --> 00:09:48,616 The defense used the term "Branch Davidians" 179 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:49,640 in their own filings. 180 00:09:49,730 --> 00:09:50,820 I have a motion here filed 181 00:09:51,020 --> 00:09:52,260 by Rocket Rosen of the defense. 182 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:53,820 Who's Rocket Rosen? 183 00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:56,200 I am, Your Honor. 184 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:57,200 Your name is Rocket? 185 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,450 Yes, Your Honor. 186 00:09:58,650 --> 00:10:00,210 I was born on the 4th of July, 187 00:10:00,410 --> 00:10:02,040 so my daddy named me Rocket. 188 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,710 Well, I was born on October 26, so my daddy named me Walter. 189 00:10:08,130 --> 00:10:10,010 - Did you file this motion? - I did. 190 00:10:10,210 --> 00:10:12,476 - But that was a mistake. - Motion denied. 191 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:14,220 Next. 192 00:10:14,420 --> 00:10:16,220 The word "cult". 193 00:10:16,420 --> 00:10:19,060 Do they not yet realize that this was a cult? 194 00:10:19,260 --> 00:10:20,520 This was no cult. 195 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:21,890 It was a communal church 196 00:10:22,090 --> 00:10:23,730 and David Koresh was their pastor. 197 00:10:23,930 --> 00:10:26,900 Once that pastor takes 20 wives 198 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:28,940 and leads his church to mass suicide, 199 00:10:29,140 --> 00:10:31,360 I would say the word "cult" is applicable. 200 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:35,120 But the defendants are not on trial for mass suicide. 201 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,586 Nobody thinks that any one of them had anything to do 202 00:10:37,610 --> 00:10:40,370 with any fire or had multiple wives 203 00:10:40,570 --> 00:10:42,580 or took child brides or any of it. 204 00:10:42,780 --> 00:10:44,710 Using the word "cult" is an attempt 205 00:10:44,910 --> 00:10:47,290 to try our clients for another man's sins. 206 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:48,620 Motion denied. 207 00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:49,740 My client Clive Doyle 208 00:10:49,830 --> 00:10:50,880 was there 15 years 209 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,880 before David Koresh's arrival. 210 00:10:55,090 --> 00:10:57,840 Rose and thorn, Karen? 211 00:10:59,340 --> 00:11:02,560 My thorn is I didn't sleep 212 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,520 very well 'cause Shari kept stealing all the covers. 213 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,280 And rose, I got extra oatmeal at breakfast. 214 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,610 Well, how about you, Shari? 215 00:11:13,810 --> 00:11:16,070 Rose, playing. 216 00:11:16,270 --> 00:11:17,950 Thorn, Karen. 217 00:11:20,150 --> 00:11:21,620 How about you, Dad? 218 00:11:21,820 --> 00:11:26,210 Thorn is my back's been hurting me again. 219 00:11:26,410 --> 00:11:31,170 My rose is that I get to spend this moment right now 220 00:11:31,370 --> 00:11:35,260 with my two favorite people in the entire world, you two. 221 00:11:35,460 --> 00:11:37,430 I have never wavered on this, George, 222 00:11:37,630 --> 00:11:40,810 you don't wear a sidearm for Sabbath service. 223 00:11:41,010 --> 00:11:43,140 Why do you think you're so special, mama? 224 00:11:43,340 --> 00:11:44,816 That you get to make all the rules? 225 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,020 Because I am your prophet. 226 00:12:11,790 --> 00:12:13,170 Don't mind him. 227 00:12:14,380 --> 00:12:16,970 My name is Vernon Howell. 228 00:12:17,170 --> 00:12:20,760 I'm looking for the Prophet Lois Roden. 229 00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:23,180 Come in. 230 00:12:24,970 --> 00:12:26,930 Service is starting. 231 00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:32,366 That's what you don't get. 232 00:12:32,390 --> 00:12:33,860 It's about being a patriot 233 00:12:34,060 --> 00:12:36,150 'cause this country has lost its way. 234 00:12:36,350 --> 00:12:38,530 It's turned against the people 235 00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:40,046 who made it great in the first place. 236 00:12:40,070 --> 00:12:41,270 So what are we supposed to do? 237 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,376 Just wait for things to change 238 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:43,660 or do we fight back? 239 00:12:43,860 --> 00:12:45,580 And in your eyes, robbing banks 240 00:12:45,780 --> 00:12:47,540 is a way of fighting back? 241 00:12:47,740 --> 00:12:50,080 No, robbing banks was never the point. 242 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:51,660 Then what is? 243 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:55,670 Yeah. You'll see. 244 00:12:58,170 --> 00:12:59,510 Yeah, payback's coming. 245 00:12:59,710 --> 00:13:01,300 It's coming sooner than you think. 246 00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:08,260 Look, we've been talking now for 20 hours. 247 00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:11,560 And it seems to me that you and I 248 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:12,826 aren't gonna agree on much. 249 00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:15,690 So maybe we could focus 250 00:13:15,890 --> 00:13:17,070 on what we do agree on. 251 00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:20,190 Yeah, like what? 252 00:13:21,650 --> 00:13:23,586 Like you and your friends have robbed 253 00:13:23,610 --> 00:13:24,990 21 banks successfully, 254 00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:26,750 nobody hurt, perfectly executed. 255 00:13:26,950 --> 00:13:28,750 No, I'm not admitting the other banks. 256 00:13:28,950 --> 00:13:30,870 I'm not asking you to do that. 257 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,250 But you see to the world right now, you're a legend. 258 00:13:35,450 --> 00:13:38,170 You're Robin Hood, 22 banks and you haven't 259 00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:40,840 hurt a single person. 260 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,220 Now you'll do a few years' time for sure. 261 00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:45,260 But then, who knows? 262 00:13:45,460 --> 00:13:47,770 Maybe you'd sell your movie rights 263 00:13:47,970 --> 00:13:50,480 to Hollywood and go sip margaritas on a beach. 264 00:13:52,510 --> 00:13:56,650 But the second you take someone's life, 265 00:13:56,850 --> 00:13:59,360 you are just another murderer. 266 00:14:00,780 --> 00:14:02,820 And nobody will care 267 00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:05,620 what you have to say ever again. 268 00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:09,660 You come out of that bank and you're gonna have options. 269 00:14:09,860 --> 00:14:13,210 You come out of that bank, you're gonna have a future. 270 00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:16,880 You want people to hear what you have to say, 271 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,960 then come out of the bank. 272 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,060 Don't shoot! Unarmed! Unarmed! 273 00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:33,390 Clear! Get down on your knees. 274 00:14:34,850 --> 00:14:36,560 Hands on your head. 275 00:14:37,770 --> 00:14:39,310 Interlace your fingers. 276 00:14:44,070 --> 00:14:46,330 Our best strategy is going to be to convince 277 00:14:46,530 --> 00:14:49,450 the jury that David Koresh was misunderstood. 278 00:14:49,650 --> 00:14:51,490 We need to humanize him, make him seem less 279 00:14:51,530 --> 00:14:53,540 like the boogeyman, more relatable. 280 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:55,040 David Koresh was 281 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,540 an opportunistic narcissistic piece of shit. 282 00:14:57,750 --> 00:15:00,630 We're not in the business of defending Koresh. 283 00:15:00,830 --> 00:15:02,340 He's dead. 284 00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:03,760 Well, if that's how you feel, 285 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,266 then why'd you even take this case? 286 00:15:05,290 --> 00:15:07,300 The issue can't be whether or not 287 00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:08,760 Koresh was the messiah. 288 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,390 If that's our case, then they win, 289 00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:13,140 because guess what? 290 00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:14,560 He wasn't. 291 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,860 Our case has to be about the fact 292 00:15:17,060 --> 00:15:18,650 the United States government 293 00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:21,190 raided these people's home without cause. 294 00:15:21,390 --> 00:15:23,950 And it was their overreach, their hubris 295 00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:27,120 that led to the deaths of 76 people including 17 children. 296 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,200 And in America, you don't get to do that 297 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,676 because, if they can do what they did to our clients 298 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:33,710 and get away with it, it'll give everyone 299 00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:36,460 with a badge and a gun from a Wackenhut security guard 300 00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:38,540 to Janet Reno the authority 301 00:15:38,740 --> 00:15:40,210 to do whatever they want, 302 00:15:40,410 --> 00:15:41,410 to whomever they want, 303 00:15:41,580 --> 00:15:43,130 however they want. 304 00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:46,550 And that's the argument we need to make. 305 00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:48,390 - Amen. - Yeah. 306 00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:52,310 What in the hell is that asshole doing here? 307 00:15:52,510 --> 00:15:54,030 You get lost, Johnston, or are you, 308 00:15:54,180 --> 00:15:56,230 uh, here to beg for mercy? 309 00:15:56,430 --> 00:16:00,440 Neither. I've got an offer for you. 310 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,690 They're offering 15 years with the possibility of parole. 311 00:16:03,890 --> 00:16:06,740 What would I have to do if I did take the deal? 312 00:16:06,940 --> 00:16:09,240 You'd have to plead guilty and then testify 313 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,870 against the other members of your group. 314 00:16:12,070 --> 00:16:14,200 No, wait, wait, wait. 315 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,840 Before you close your mind to it, 316 00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:17,550 you should know that they've offered 317 00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:19,420 the same deal to all five of you. 318 00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:21,710 If you don't take it, you face the possibility 319 00:16:21,910 --> 00:16:23,500 of life without parole. 320 00:16:24,750 --> 00:16:27,260 But I didn't do anything. 321 00:16:27,460 --> 00:16:30,350 Clive, unfortunately, that doesn't matter. 322 00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:32,260 It's a conspiracy charge. 323 00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:35,390 If any single one of you is found guilty, 324 00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:37,730 then you're all guilty. 325 00:16:37,930 --> 00:16:40,940 If any one of you pulled the trigger of a gun, 326 00:16:41,140 --> 00:16:43,110 then you all pulled the trigger. 327 00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:45,280 You're gonna rise and fall together. 328 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,780 You got until opening statements to decide 329 00:16:47,980 --> 00:16:50,530 and then the deal's off the table. 330 00:16:52,030 --> 00:16:54,370 Here is what is going to happen. 331 00:16:54,570 --> 00:16:56,790 Instead of arguing about this juror 332 00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:58,250 or that juror, 333 00:16:58,450 --> 00:17:01,040 going back and forth, you, then you. 334 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,800 I am gonna save us a whole lot of time 335 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,470 and the American taxpayer 336 00:17:06,670 --> 00:17:08,630 a lot of money and help pick the jury myself. 337 00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:09,760 So you can all relax. 338 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:11,640 Objection, Your Honor. 339 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:13,810 You can't object to me. I'm the judge. 340 00:17:14,010 --> 00:17:15,850 Well, then, uh, exception. 341 00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:18,350 Noted. 342 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:23,390 Can he do that? 343 00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:30,530 How do you feel about people who join a cult? 344 00:17:30,730 --> 00:17:31,780 Objection. 345 00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:34,990 Exception, Your Hon... shit. 346 00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:36,296 How do you feel 347 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,960 about people who join 348 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,420 extremist religious groups? 349 00:17:40,620 --> 00:17:43,170 I do have negative feelings towards people 350 00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:47,010 who abuse children if that's what you're asking. 351 00:17:47,210 --> 00:17:48,930 Or people who give their sense of choice 352 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,340 over to false prophets. 353 00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:53,180 You can stay. 354 00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:55,680 So, Clive, how'd you come to be here? 355 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,230 My mom and I heard some of Lois's teachings, 356 00:17:58,430 --> 00:18:00,680 so we followed that message all the way here. 357 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,440 That was 15 years ago. 358 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:04,946 All the way from Australia? 359 00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:07,030 I don't think I'll ever leave. 360 00:18:07,230 --> 00:18:08,690 Wow. 361 00:18:10,780 --> 00:18:13,450 How about you? What brought you here? 362 00:18:13,650 --> 00:18:14,900 Me? 363 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,080 Well, I learned to read by reading the Bible. 364 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,670 I can't see so well, you know, all the letters 365 00:18:21,870 --> 00:18:24,840 get mixed up and stuff, so I have trouble reading books, 366 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,960 but the Bible. 367 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,500 Man, I could just sit and read it like magic. 368 00:18:31,550 --> 00:18:32,800 And you know what struck me? 369 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,350 Huh. 370 00:18:35,550 --> 00:18:38,180 I mean, for years, I asked anyone who might know, 371 00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:40,560 "Hey, what happened to all those old prophets? 372 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,310 Are there any still living now? 373 00:18:42,510 --> 00:18:45,060 Or did they all get stuck here in this old book?" 374 00:18:45,260 --> 00:18:46,730 And they'd say, "Quiet, boy. 375 00:18:46,930 --> 00:18:48,206 Sit down and listen to what we're teachin'." 376 00:18:49,940 --> 00:18:51,916 But nobody could answer that one question. 377 00:18:51,940 --> 00:18:54,410 So I turned to God and I asked Him, 378 00:18:54,610 --> 00:18:58,910 "Please, if there's a prophet, please lead me there." 379 00:19:00,490 --> 00:19:02,540 Then three days later, out of the blue, 380 00:19:02,740 --> 00:19:04,506 my grandma tells me about some prophet out here 381 00:19:04,530 --> 00:19:06,330 on the plains of Waco. 382 00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:08,340 Her name was Lois Roden, 383 00:19:08,540 --> 00:19:10,630 and she lived at a place called Mount Carmel. 384 00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:15,340 Went to my room, packed my stuff, 385 00:19:15,540 --> 00:19:17,130 got here as fast as I could. 386 00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:22,510 That's... like a miracle. 387 00:19:24,020 --> 00:19:27,190 Yeah, that's what I thought too. 388 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,700 Did they offer you all the plea deal too? 389 00:19:43,870 --> 00:19:45,310 My lawyer told me the worst thing 390 00:19:45,450 --> 00:19:46,676 that could happen is someone else 391 00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:48,210 taking the deal if I don't. 392 00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:54,630 Man, the government wants their pound of flesh 393 00:19:54,830 --> 00:19:56,220 and they're gonna get it 394 00:19:56,420 --> 00:19:58,066 if we don't stay strong and stick together. 395 00:19:58,090 --> 00:19:59,810 Look around this room. 396 00:20:00,010 --> 00:20:02,640 Do you expect anyone is actually going to think 397 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,390 Clive shot federal agents in cold blood? 398 00:20:06,430 --> 00:20:08,150 Or Ruth? 399 00:20:08,350 --> 00:20:10,570 It doesn't matter what they think. 400 00:20:10,770 --> 00:20:13,070 If they think any of us did it, then we all did it. 401 00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:14,650 I wasn't even there. 402 00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:18,410 Do you think any of this is about truth? 403 00:20:18,610 --> 00:20:20,660 Or fairness? Or justice? Because it's not. 404 00:20:20,860 --> 00:20:22,580 It is about anger. 405 00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:26,500 They are gonna roll over us no matter what we do. 406 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:27,886 So we may as well get through this 407 00:20:27,910 --> 00:20:30,290 with our dignity intact. 408 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,670 The government can make up whatever story they want 409 00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:37,130 about what happened inside Mount Carmel, 410 00:20:37,330 --> 00:20:39,470 but no one knows what you did 411 00:20:39,670 --> 00:20:41,850 or didn't do behind closed doors, 412 00:20:42,050 --> 00:20:44,980 nobody but the people in this room. 413 00:20:45,180 --> 00:20:47,140 So if we stay united 414 00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:49,730 and refute their story, then... 415 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,020 maybe we have a chance. 416 00:21:17,670 --> 00:21:19,460 Oh, shit. 417 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:26,060 Hey, Dusty, mind if I pick your brain about something? 418 00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:28,640 I was looking at Wild Bill's file. 419 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,736 Why? We already put him in jail. 420 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,230 Well, Wild Bill and his friends successfully robbed 21 banks. 421 00:21:34,430 --> 00:21:35,610 But in their files, 422 00:21:35,810 --> 00:21:36,916 it doesn't seem as though they made 423 00:21:36,940 --> 00:21:39,400 any conspicuous purchases. 424 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,910 That, combined with his comment about "payback," 425 00:21:42,110 --> 00:21:43,580 it was bugging me 426 00:21:43,780 --> 00:21:45,216 and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. 427 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,870 So I took a closer look and I found this. 428 00:21:49,070 --> 00:21:50,410 What am I looking at? 429 00:21:51,370 --> 00:21:52,960 You see that flag? 430 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,420 That's the same flag they flew over at Mount Carmel. 431 00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:58,800 David Koresh designed it himself. 432 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,380 Huh. 433 00:22:00,580 --> 00:22:04,300 Did Wild Bill have some connection to Waco? 434 00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:06,100 I doubt it. 435 00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:09,100 The flag is probably used more as a recruitment tool 436 00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:11,850 to fire people up. 437 00:22:12,050 --> 00:22:14,440 Any sense where that photo was taken? 438 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,020 It doesn't say in the file. 439 00:22:17,730 --> 00:22:19,360 It looks like Elohim City to me. 440 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,030 It's a town of sorts. 441 00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:24,570 Started in the early '70s by a group of former Mennonites, 442 00:22:24,770 --> 00:22:26,930 which gave birth to the Christian Identity movement, 443 00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:28,250 which is, basically... 444 00:22:28,450 --> 00:22:29,546 Christianity for White Supremacists. 445 00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:31,210 Uh-hmm. 446 00:22:31,410 --> 00:22:33,386 We'd need a serious warrant and a small army to go in there. 447 00:22:33,410 --> 00:22:35,806 Something which, after Waco, I don't think any of our bosses 448 00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:37,540 would be willing to take a chance on. 449 00:22:42,090 --> 00:22:44,670 Clive Doyle, you have a visitor. 450 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,140 Let's go. 451 00:22:52,930 --> 00:22:54,310 Some of the other families 452 00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:56,150 mentioned something about a plea deal? 453 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,200 It's true. They've offered one. 454 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,530 I'm not sure I'm gonna take the deal, Karen. 455 00:23:07,410 --> 00:23:08,450 Why not? 456 00:23:10,990 --> 00:23:13,960 Because they want us to say it was our fault. 457 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,160 And it wasn't. 458 00:23:15,330 --> 00:23:17,160 Just get out, Dad. 459 00:23:18,790 --> 00:23:22,760 Shari's gone, everything's gone. 460 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,180 How much more do you feel like you have to suffer? 461 00:23:25,380 --> 00:23:27,760 I loved David too, but it's over! 462 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:28,960 I need my father back. 463 00:23:29,050 --> 00:23:30,640 I know, but... 464 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,100 You've already lost, Dad. 465 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,680 There's no more point in fighting it. 466 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,770 Anne... 467 00:23:42,650 --> 00:23:44,530 she needs her grandfather. 468 00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:48,110 What? 469 00:23:49,660 --> 00:23:52,620 Really? 470 00:23:58,710 --> 00:24:00,500 There's your rose. 471 00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:03,550 Is it? 472 00:24:28,860 --> 00:24:30,700 It's 15 years of loyalty, 473 00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:33,750 15 years of putting my life on the line and then for what? 474 00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:35,160 For what? 475 00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:36,596 Hey, hey, get your hands off me, man. 476 00:24:36,620 --> 00:24:37,830 Get off me. 477 00:24:45,210 --> 00:24:47,170 - Weren't you... - Yeah. 478 00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:49,890 Yeah, yeah, we've met. 479 00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:51,380 Right. 480 00:24:56,220 --> 00:24:57,720 Do you wanna get a drink? 481 00:24:59,020 --> 00:25:00,190 On the fire ants? 482 00:25:00,390 --> 00:25:02,860 On the goddamn fire ants. 483 00:25:03,060 --> 00:25:05,240 Oh, Jesus. 484 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,536 I mean, why anybody would build their heaven on earth 485 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,150 on top of a goddamn fire ant hill is just beyond me. 486 00:25:14,570 --> 00:25:15,966 So, come on, why'd... why did you... 487 00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:17,370 Why did you ask me here? 488 00:25:17,570 --> 00:25:19,750 Come on, I know it wasn't to talk about fire ants. 489 00:25:22,290 --> 00:25:24,420 Because my wife thinks I should talk to someone 490 00:25:24,620 --> 00:25:25,710 and, uh... 491 00:25:27,250 --> 00:25:28,550 there aren't a lot of people 492 00:25:28,750 --> 00:25:30,760 who know what it was like to be there. 493 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,470 You have regrets? 494 00:25:33,670 --> 00:25:36,640 I just keep wondering if I did this differently 495 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,480 or if I said that differently, 496 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,200 then maybe things could've turned out different, you know. 497 00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:43,390 Yeah, I do that too. 498 00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:47,900 And then there are times that I wonder if you were just... 499 00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:51,410 just damned from the start. 500 00:25:51,610 --> 00:25:53,050 We weren't damned from the start. 501 00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:55,450 We damned ourselves through our own stupidity. 502 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,950 Mmm. 503 00:25:58,150 --> 00:26:00,120 What do you know about Elohim City? 504 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,080 I know they're a bunch of racist assholes, 505 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,556 but other than that, you know, it's not my department, 506 00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:07,920 so I don't really pay attention to it. 507 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,880 But this man from Elohim City, he was so angry. 508 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,720 Uh-hmm. 509 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,930 And I just keep thinking about the... 510 00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:18,640 people protesting at the barricades at Waco 511 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,770 and I just feel this... 512 00:26:23,890 --> 00:26:27,440 this undercurrent of rage in America. 513 00:26:30,980 --> 00:26:33,870 And I think we helped create the monster 514 00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:35,860 we're trying to stop. 515 00:26:43,660 --> 00:26:46,210 Look, I know someone working the Elohim City case. 516 00:26:46,410 --> 00:26:48,670 And, uh, I might be able to set you up. 517 00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:57,470 This is blasphemy! 518 00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:00,520 I won't stand for it. 519 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,020 I speak the truth. 520 00:27:02,220 --> 00:27:03,650 God handles the consequences. 521 00:27:03,850 --> 00:27:07,270 George, the Holy Spirit is feminine. 522 00:27:07,470 --> 00:27:09,610 We live in a male dominated society 523 00:27:09,810 --> 00:27:12,280 and it has resulted in a male dominated translation 524 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,820 of the Bible. 525 00:27:14,020 --> 00:27:17,280 There is the Father, there is the Son, 526 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,910 and the Holy Spirit is mother. 527 00:27:20,530 --> 00:27:21,870 Lois is right. 528 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:25,830 What did you just say? 529 00:27:27,290 --> 00:27:29,210 I said, "Lois is right." 530 00:27:29,410 --> 00:27:30,960 I never saw it before 531 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,300 but she's mentioned all over the Old Testament. 532 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:35,050 Proverbs 31:25, 533 00:27:35,250 --> 00:27:36,856 "She is clothed with strength and dignity, 534 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,970 and she laughs without fear of the future." 535 00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:40,430 Proverbs 31:10, 536 00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:42,106 "She is far more precious than jewels." 537 00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:43,600 Psalms 46:5, 538 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,120 "God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved." 539 00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:48,190 - Quiet! - Proverbs 31:26, 540 00:27:48,390 --> 00:27:50,190 "She opens her mouth with wisdom, 541 00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:53,190 and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue." 542 00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:56,070 Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22. 543 00:27:56,270 --> 00:27:57,916 There are dozens of examples in the Bible 544 00:27:57,940 --> 00:28:00,740 where the Holy Spirit is referred to as "she". 545 00:28:00,940 --> 00:28:03,100 I mean, George, are you saying the Bible is wrong? 546 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,790 No. 547 00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:08,590 Of course, I'm not saying the Bible is wrong. 548 00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:32,530 Probably won't get you laid, 549 00:28:32,730 --> 00:28:34,520 but it'll make you look more respectable. 550 00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:41,490 Have you decided on the plea deal? 551 00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:44,000 This is your last chance to take it. 552 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,080 You should be more careful with George. 553 00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:51,790 He can be pretty mean. 554 00:28:53,790 --> 00:28:56,300 I'm not worried about old George Roden. 555 00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:58,140 He's not the first bully I dealt with. 556 00:28:58,210 --> 00:29:00,720 I'm sure he won't be the last. 557 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,810 "So do not fear, for I am with you. 558 00:29:03,010 --> 00:29:05,140 Do not be dismayed, for I am your God. 559 00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:07,690 I will strengthen you and I will help you. 560 00:29:07,890 --> 00:29:10,900 I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." 561 00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,270 Isaiah said that. 562 00:29:13,470 --> 00:29:15,530 You can go hide all your life, 563 00:29:15,730 --> 00:29:17,200 but then the whole world 564 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,950 winds up getting run by the George Rodens everywhere. 565 00:29:20,150 --> 00:29:21,620 That's no way to please the Lord. 566 00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:22,910 No. 567 00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:24,790 You gotta show that faith. 568 00:29:24,990 --> 00:29:26,790 You got to show it by standing up, 569 00:29:26,990 --> 00:29:29,830 by doing what's right, 570 00:29:30,030 --> 00:29:31,466 regardless of what all them bullies 571 00:29:31,490 --> 00:29:33,170 tell you what they think you should do. 572 00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:36,766 It's just that George is sick in the head. 573 00:29:36,790 --> 00:29:38,220 He's... he's violent. 574 00:29:38,420 --> 00:29:40,510 You don't understand what he's capable of. 575 00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:55,310 He doesn't know what I'm capable of either. 576 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,360 I'm stronger than they realize. 577 00:30:02,150 --> 00:30:05,200 And so are you, Clive Doyle. 578 00:30:09,370 --> 00:30:11,160 I don't give in to bullies. 579 00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:16,710 It's our job to do what's right. 580 00:30:16,910 --> 00:30:19,210 And it's God's job to sort out the rest. 581 00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:24,050 Okay, then let's go give 'em hell. 582 00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:52,296 So, I've just had breakfast 583 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:53,920 with defendant Schroeder, 584 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,266 and she's going to be playing for the home team now, 585 00:30:56,290 --> 00:30:58,880 so get some statements over... 586 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,800 But I just wanted to let you know for now. 587 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,840 Good morning, by the way. 588 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,440 Kathy Schroeder just flipped. 589 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:15,730 She took the plea deal 590 00:31:15,930 --> 00:31:18,150 and she's turning state's witness. 591 00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:20,150 Kathy's going to testify against us? 592 00:31:20,350 --> 00:31:21,350 Yeah. 593 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:32,910 Now this is a simple story... 594 00:31:33,790 --> 00:31:35,620 with two clear sides. 595 00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:38,880 The government agents 596 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,040 who went in to serve a legal search warrant... 597 00:31:43,460 --> 00:31:47,300 and the Branch Davidians, led by David Koresh, 598 00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:51,680 who adhered to a philosophy of death. 599 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,190 A philosophy that led Koresh 600 00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:57,060 to train his people for battle 601 00:31:57,260 --> 00:31:58,730 and arm them for war, 602 00:31:58,930 --> 00:32:02,320 so that when those agents approached Mount Carmel 603 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,660 to do their legal duty, 604 00:32:05,860 --> 00:32:09,700 the defendants laid in wait with guns in their hands. 605 00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:12,290 And when the agents got close enough, 606 00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:15,040 the Branch Davidians opened fire, 607 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,380 murdering four federal officers 608 00:32:18,580 --> 00:32:20,380 in cold blood. 609 00:32:20,580 --> 00:32:22,790 These men and women aren't killers. 610 00:32:24,340 --> 00:32:25,710 They're victims. 611 00:32:28,090 --> 00:32:32,470 First, they were victimized by David Koresh, 612 00:32:32,670 --> 00:32:36,810 a charismatic con man who brainwashed them 613 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,730 into believing he was a messiah on earth. 614 00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:52,410 And then they were victimized by the ATF, 615 00:32:53,530 --> 00:32:55,870 who led an unnecessary 616 00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:58,120 ill-advised assault on their home 617 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,380 that left 76 of their friends and family, 618 00:33:01,580 --> 00:33:04,380 and even their children, dead. 619 00:33:04,580 --> 00:33:06,436 You're making us look like sheep, 620 00:33:06,460 --> 00:33:08,130 like we just blindly followed David 621 00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:09,800 with no minds of our own. 622 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,856 This isn't the strategy we talked about before. 623 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,260 We weren't brainwashed. 624 00:33:13,460 --> 00:33:15,560 We were defending something real. 625 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:16,890 We all believed in 626 00:33:17,090 --> 00:33:18,196 because we saw it with our own eyes. 627 00:33:18,220 --> 00:33:21,270 My husband was shot dead 628 00:33:21,470 --> 00:33:22,770 and ripped to pieces 629 00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:25,610 by a government tank because of those beliefs. 630 00:33:25,810 --> 00:33:27,780 It's not just the four of us on trial here. 631 00:33:27,980 --> 00:33:31,950 When you say that what we believe in is stupid, 632 00:33:32,150 --> 00:33:34,040 you're saying that the people that we loved 633 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,200 who burned in that building died for nothing. 634 00:33:37,410 --> 00:33:39,420 I don't give a rat's ass about your religion. 635 00:33:39,620 --> 00:33:42,040 And frankly, I don't even care if you look sane. 636 00:33:43,670 --> 00:33:46,630 All I care about is keeping you out of jail. 637 00:33:46,830 --> 00:33:48,210 That's my only focus here. 638 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,970 And our defense tactics have to change, 639 00:33:52,170 --> 00:33:54,340 because Kathy Schroeder flipped on you. 640 00:33:56,050 --> 00:33:58,100 Before, you were all a united front, 641 00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:01,020 whatever the prosecutor said happened at Mount Carmel, 642 00:34:01,220 --> 00:34:03,020 was speculation. 643 00:34:03,220 --> 00:34:06,320 Now, one of your own is going to corroborate their claims. 644 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,900 Kathy is gonna tell the jury that she passed out guns 645 00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:11,140 to each and every one of you during the siege. 646 00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:13,200 I wasn't even there. 647 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,530 Well, then she's gonna say you bought the guns, 648 00:34:15,740 --> 00:34:17,676 make you into an arms dealer with a death wish. 649 00:34:17,700 --> 00:34:21,830 She's gonna turn the rest of you into an army out for blood. 650 00:34:22,030 --> 00:34:26,130 So if-if we can't say you never held a gun, 651 00:34:26,330 --> 00:34:28,090 we have to make the jury believe 652 00:34:28,290 --> 00:34:30,760 that you had no choice but to pick one up. 653 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,010 You had no choice but to protect yourselves, 654 00:34:34,210 --> 00:34:37,260 because David Koresh conditioned you 655 00:34:37,470 --> 00:34:39,180 to do whatever he said, 656 00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:41,980 and the government charged in trying to kill your children. 657 00:34:42,140 --> 00:34:44,520 But we didn't just do whatever he told us to do. 658 00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:46,400 - We-we made choices. - Yeah, look, 659 00:34:46,470 --> 00:34:48,610 you can be as pissed as you want at me in here, 660 00:34:48,810 --> 00:34:50,320 but when we're in that courtroom, 661 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,490 you need to sit there, and you need to look sorry. 662 00:34:54,690 --> 00:34:56,580 You need to stop shaking your head 663 00:34:56,780 --> 00:34:59,450 and-and stop glowering at the prosecutors. 664 00:34:59,650 --> 00:35:03,170 And you, you need to wear a dress. 665 00:35:03,370 --> 00:35:05,630 Yeah, something that makes you look softer 666 00:35:05,830 --> 00:35:07,250 and more vulnerable. 667 00:35:07,450 --> 00:35:08,670 I don't wear dresses. 668 00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:10,390 Well, then we'll get you one. 669 00:35:10,540 --> 00:35:12,220 But you need to start doing your part. 670 00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:15,090 You need to start acting like the victim. 671 00:35:17,340 --> 00:35:19,800 You need to be honest about who you are. 672 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,850 Proverbs speaks to this, 673 00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:24,770 calling for insight, 674 00:35:24,970 --> 00:35:28,440 not being afraid to ask for help, 675 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,980 so that we can better understand ourselves. 676 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,700 Vernon, what are you struggling with? 677 00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:38,240 How can we help you? 678 00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:45,080 I struggle with my own desires, 679 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,580 which I feel so strong sometimes. 680 00:35:48,670 --> 00:35:50,420 What kind of desires? 681 00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:53,670 Pleasure of the flesh. 682 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,850 Sometimes it's so strong, 683 00:35:58,050 --> 00:36:00,470 I have to relieve that pressure several times a day. 684 00:36:00,670 --> 00:36:01,670 Oh! 685 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:04,350 It's okay. It's okay. 686 00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:06,560 You should feel comfortable to share. 687 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,270 You shouldn't feel embarrassed. 688 00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:10,350 I never said I was embarrassed. 689 00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:15,820 Everyone has their own struggles. 690 00:36:16,940 --> 00:36:19,240 No temptation has overtaken you 691 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,990 that is not common to man. 692 00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:23,870 God is faithful. 693 00:36:24,070 --> 00:36:26,546 He will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but... 694 00:36:26,570 --> 00:36:27,830 But with that temptation, 695 00:36:28,030 --> 00:36:29,870 He will also provide the way of escape. 696 00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:33,260 Corinthians 10:13. 697 00:36:33,460 --> 00:36:35,930 But when that temptation comes over me, 698 00:36:36,130 --> 00:36:39,430 I wonder if she's ever known loving hands on her body, 699 00:36:39,630 --> 00:36:42,140 if she's ever felt true pleasure 700 00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:46,140 and I'm overcome... 701 00:36:46,340 --> 00:36:50,100 with desire until I feel like I might go mad. 702 00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:55,780 You were, uh... 703 00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:57,780 You were pretty honest at Bible study. 704 00:36:57,940 --> 00:37:00,030 I promised myself that when I came here, 705 00:37:00,230 --> 00:37:02,070 I wouldn't hold back any bit of myself... 706 00:37:03,490 --> 00:37:05,080 even those little ugly parts 707 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,561 that I'd rather sometimes just sweep under the rug. 708 00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:12,790 I... I felt the same way when I came here. 709 00:37:14,250 --> 00:37:16,250 Like I wanted to give all of myself. 710 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,420 Kindred spirits, I guess. 711 00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:26,500 - Looks good over here. - Oh, do you need me? 712 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,440 Not just yet. 713 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,600 Actually, uh, I just came over to talk to Vernon. 714 00:37:33,940 --> 00:37:36,490 Uh, Vernon, 715 00:37:36,690 --> 00:37:40,200 I'm getting ready to go on my yearly trip to Israel. 716 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,870 And I think you should join me... 717 00:37:43,070 --> 00:37:44,070 to study. 718 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,600 Nothing would give me more pleasure 719 00:37:54,660 --> 00:37:56,880 than learning right from your hands. 720 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,050 Good. 721 00:38:00,460 --> 00:38:01,970 That's settled then. 722 00:38:02,170 --> 00:38:04,050 Dramatic music plays 723 00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:30,920 Hi. Uh, excuse me. Are you Angie? 724 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,210 Jacob sent me. 725 00:38:32,410 --> 00:38:33,540 - Oh, yes. - Yeah. 726 00:38:33,740 --> 00:38:34,740 - Gary? - Right. 727 00:38:34,830 --> 00:38:35,830 - Okay. Hi. - Yeah. 728 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,800 So you drew the short straw, huh? 729 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,050 Yeah. Our informant's name is Carol Howe. 730 00:38:41,250 --> 00:38:44,050 And, um, we didn't know how seriously to take her 731 00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:47,600 because she's not the most reliable-seeming informant. 732 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,680 Uh-hmm. 733 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,560 How'd she wind up here in the hospital? 734 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,900 Did they find out she was informing and hurt her? 735 00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:55,560 Actually, kind of the opposite. 736 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,196 No, Wild Bill actually beat her up pretty bad 737 00:38:57,220 --> 00:38:58,580 - before the robbery... - Uh-hmm. 738 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,520 And she got pissed, so she tipped us off 739 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,950 - as a way to get revenge. - Mmm. 740 00:39:03,150 --> 00:39:05,240 She's not a big fan of authority, 741 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,740 to say the least, and, uh, she's a bit erratic. 742 00:39:08,940 --> 00:39:10,250 How so? 743 00:39:10,450 --> 00:39:13,370 God damn it! Come on! 744 00:39:14,910 --> 00:39:17,170 TV signal's shit in here, Angie. 745 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,170 Hey there, Carol. I'm Gary. 746 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,510 How's Wild Bill? 747 00:39:25,710 --> 00:39:27,260 Did he ask about me? 748 00:39:27,460 --> 00:39:29,100 He lawyered up pretty quickly, 749 00:39:29,170 --> 00:39:31,560 so I honestly don't know what he's asking about. 750 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,560 - Is he doing okay? - Yeah, 751 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,560 for someone who's gonna spend ten to twenty years in prison. 752 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,940 I didn't mean to get him locked up that long. 753 00:39:39,140 --> 00:39:41,536 But that asshole shouldn't have laid his hands on me like that. 754 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,230 You don't mess with a lady's face! 755 00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:45,240 That's right. 756 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,240 That's right. 757 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:47,440 Uh-hmm. 758 00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:51,410 So Wild Bill had made some allusions 759 00:39:51,610 --> 00:39:54,250 to some kind of payback against the government. 760 00:39:54,450 --> 00:39:57,170 Did he ever speak to you about anything like that? 761 00:39:57,370 --> 00:39:59,500 Gary? 762 00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:01,590 I ain't some kind of narc. 763 00:40:01,790 --> 00:40:04,340 I'm just a person who's sick of her boyfriend's shit. 764 00:40:04,540 --> 00:40:05,800 Yeah, fair enough. 765 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,970 But, uh, I'd say there's a difference 766 00:40:08,170 --> 00:40:10,140 between being a narc and saving the lives 767 00:40:10,340 --> 00:40:12,140 of innocent people. 768 00:40:14,890 --> 00:40:16,600 Ain't nobody innocent. 769 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:19,600 Really? 770 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,700 Well, what about Elohim City? Did you hear anyone there... 771 00:40:25,900 --> 00:40:29,280 speak about some sort of planned payback? 772 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:35,830 I don't know about Elohim City. 773 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,390 Come on, Carol, this is important. 774 00:40:48,590 --> 00:40:50,470 I'm trying to keep people from getting hurt. 775 00:40:57,850 --> 00:40:58,850 Dammit. 776 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:01,960 I don't... the people you're asking 777 00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:03,440 about at Elohim City, 778 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,480 they didn't really talk to me much, okay? 779 00:41:07,150 --> 00:41:09,431 And I never heard anything specific about anything, 780 00:41:09,610 --> 00:41:11,490 but I will tell you... 781 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,006 they talk a lot about how the government 782 00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:16,370 has turned on them. 783 00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:22,920 They talk about a holy war that's coming. 784 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,760 And they're gonna be on the frontlines. 785 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,430 But that's nothing on its own. 786 00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:31,220 You know, I know plenty of people who talk like that. 787 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,600 But the thing about Elohim City is, 788 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,560 it's full of people who tend to mean what they say. 789 00:41:41,730 --> 00:41:43,730 What does that mean exactly? 790 00:41:46,770 --> 00:41:48,570 It means if payback is coming, 791 00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:50,810 then I would guess it's gonna come from there. 792 00:41:56,570 --> 00:41:57,660 Yeah. 793 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,570 Nowhere to run to, uh, uh 794 00:42:27,770 --> 00:42:32,740 Nowhere to hide58833

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