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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,550 - Night. - See you later. 2 00:00:58,390 --> 00:01:00,230 - Sorry, boss. - Rachel! Give us a second, Sam. 3 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,820 - Has Janet gone? - Yeah. 4 00:01:01,830 --> 00:01:04,120 She had a GCSE meeting at school with Elise. 5 00:01:04,380 --> 00:01:06,300 - Are you doing anything? - Just dropping this lot 6 00:01:06,310 --> 00:01:08,350 of disclosure schedules off. 7 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,065 You got anything on over the next three or four days 8 00:01:10,090 --> 00:01:12,210 you can't wriggle out of? Court appearances, anything? 9 00:01:12,290 --> 00:01:14,480 - No. - You fancy a bit of overtime? 10 00:01:15,020 --> 00:01:16,590 - Yeah. - Get that done, 11 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,690 go home, pack a bag. I'll pick you up in an hour. 12 00:01:18,710 --> 00:01:20,010 Yeah. Why, where we going? 13 00:01:20,020 --> 00:01:21,570 Cambridge. Ravenhill Prison. 14 00:01:21,580 --> 00:01:23,980 Then Bristol. North Avon! It will all become clear. 15 00:01:24,420 --> 00:01:26,800 Sammy? Yep, so bins out tomorrow night. 16 00:01:27,110 --> 00:01:29,080 Yes, I know you know that. I'm telling you 17 00:01:29,090 --> 00:01:31,610 because you have to do and because I'm not going to be there. 18 00:01:45,790 --> 00:01:47,090 Dom? 19 00:01:48,590 --> 00:01:49,890 Dom! 20 00:01:51,390 --> 00:01:53,310 Dom, I'm going away for a couple of days... 21 00:01:55,710 --> 00:01:57,260 - Shit. - Who the hell's that? 22 00:02:05,410 --> 00:02:07,240 I thought you said no-one else'd be here. 23 00:02:07,460 --> 00:02:08,760 Fuck this. 24 00:02:12,340 --> 00:02:13,760 Are you going to introduce me to your friend? 25 00:02:13,780 --> 00:02:16,240 - No, we... we were... - I want my 20 quid back. 26 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,010 Married. Are we? I don't think so, pal. 27 00:02:23,780 --> 00:02:25,250 Can you remember where the door is, or shall I show you? 28 00:02:25,260 --> 00:02:26,560 You're hurting me! 29 00:02:29,870 --> 00:02:31,800 I've got your registration number, arsehole, 30 00:02:31,810 --> 00:02:33,820 so don't think I can't find out where you live 31 00:02:33,830 --> 00:02:36,070 or every single thing there is to know about you. 32 00:02:45,890 --> 00:02:47,760 - Have you done this before? Here? - No. 33 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:49,520 No. Two things. I'm a police officer 34 00:02:49,530 --> 00:02:51,020 and you've just used my flat 35 00:02:51,050 --> 00:02:53,920 to sell sex in. Do you understand that you can't do that? 36 00:02:53,930 --> 00:02:56,110 And number two... what are you doing? 37 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,790 What you doing? 38 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,760 - Do you want me to go? - No, Dom! 39 00:03:05,770 --> 00:03:07,940 I want you to get your life back together! 40 00:03:07,950 --> 00:03:09,950 I was at a hotel, asking about kitchen jobs. 41 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,480 I was. Honest. 42 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,450 Right. OK. Look. I'm... 43 00:03:21,260 --> 00:03:23,870 I'm going away for a couple of days. So I... 44 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,660 Shit. 45 00:03:27,580 --> 00:03:29,580 I don't know what you had to do, Dom, in prison, 46 00:03:29,590 --> 00:03:31,590 to get by but this is the deal, right? 47 00:03:33,250 --> 00:03:35,150 That is in the past. You're in my world now. 48 00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:37,630 If you're short for money then... 49 00:03:37,650 --> 00:03:39,740 then you talk to me. Before you even dream 50 00:03:39,750 --> 00:03:41,670 about doing anything like that ever again, right? 51 00:03:45,270 --> 00:03:48,470 Right. I'm going to be away, so, God, I don't know... 52 00:03:49,980 --> 00:03:51,280 Can you promise me... 53 00:03:51,290 --> 00:03:52,590 Promise me... 54 00:03:53,690 --> 00:03:55,100 that you will try... 55 00:03:55,220 --> 00:03:56,520 to behave 56 00:03:57,190 --> 00:03:58,890 like you've got the sense you were born with. 57 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:00,200 Or I'll... 58 00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:02,830 I will ask you to leave, Dom. 59 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,190 Because I'll be left with no choice. 60 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,630 I just wanted to pay you back for your kitchen. 61 00:04:15,580 --> 00:04:17,280 Have you had a HIV test? 62 00:04:30,820 --> 00:04:33,210 Does the name Jeremy Leach ring any bells? 63 00:04:34,180 --> 00:04:35,480 Jeremy Leach? 64 00:04:37,540 --> 00:04:39,970 He raped and strangled three women in the West Country, 65 00:04:39,990 --> 00:04:42,780 and one in Reading. Ten years ago? 66 00:04:42,790 --> 00:04:44,150 13 years ago. 67 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,690 Sexually assaulted six women, probably twice that many. 68 00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:48,080 All across the south. But yeah, 69 00:04:48,490 --> 00:04:51,190 the court convicted him on the four he raped and strangled. 70 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,440 - So what are we... - We're going to visit him. 71 00:04:53,950 --> 00:04:55,340 Those are for you. 72 00:05:04,340 --> 00:05:05,640 Leach? 73 00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:07,570 Wasn't he a total control freak? 74 00:05:07,580 --> 00:05:10,410 Control freak, psychopath, narcissist. 75 00:05:10,420 --> 00:05:12,960 It's all in there. When he was caught, how he was caught, 76 00:05:12,970 --> 00:05:14,460 psychological reports. 77 00:05:14,650 --> 00:05:16,030 So why are we visiting him? 78 00:05:16,050 --> 00:05:19,640 Three weeks ago, just outside Bristol a woman turned up dead. 79 00:05:19,650 --> 00:05:22,440 Yasmin Heaney. She'd been raped and strangled. 80 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,450 Whoever did it used an MO almost identical to Jeremy Leach's. 81 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,680 The details of which, for obvious reasons, 82 00:05:28,690 --> 00:05:30,150 were never released to the press. 83 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:31,460 For instance... 84 00:05:31,470 --> 00:05:34,370 he used cable ties to fasten his victim's thumbs together. 85 00:05:34,380 --> 00:05:37,150 It's all in there, even the victim profile fits. 86 00:05:37,290 --> 00:05:41,120 - White, 32-year-old professional. - But it can't be him? 87 00:05:41,130 --> 00:05:43,370 It's unlikely. He's been tucked up at Her Majesty's pleasure 88 00:05:43,380 --> 00:05:44,800 for the last thirteen years. 89 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,940 He's not looking at parole till 2036, if ever. 90 00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:49,430 - So it's a copycat thing? - Yeah. 91 00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:53,700 Didn't he get convicted over a single thumb print? 92 00:05:53,710 --> 00:05:56,180 Not even that. It was a partial thumb print. 93 00:05:56,190 --> 00:05:58,220 But enough to get his DNA. 94 00:05:58,230 --> 00:05:59,550 Did you catch him? 95 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,930 It went across four forces, including the Met, 96 00:06:01,940 --> 00:06:03,790 but yes, when I worked for the NPIA. 97 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,870 Crime Faculty, as was. 98 00:06:06,250 --> 00:06:07,750 We got invited in. They were desperate, 99 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,060 they had nothing. 100 00:06:09,070 --> 00:06:10,470 He was clever. 101 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,640 Nowhere near as clever as he thought he was, of course. 102 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,850 - They never are. - So why are... 103 00:06:14,860 --> 00:06:16,950 He says he has information about Yasmin's death. 104 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:18,960 Because I went in from the Crime Faculty, 105 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:20,660 Leach doesn't know I was involved 106 00:06:20,670 --> 00:06:22,190 in the original investigation. 107 00:06:22,210 --> 00:06:23,650 My name will mean nothing to him. 108 00:06:23,660 --> 00:06:25,070 But why do you need me? 109 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,390 I squared it with the boss. 110 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,390 Can you read in a car without being sick? 111 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,080 I'd make a start. We'll hit the hotel by eleven, 112 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:34,890 then we're seeing him at nine o'clock sharp tomorrow morning. 113 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,050 I still don't know why you need me. 114 00:06:38,060 --> 00:06:40,590 I'm a Chief Inspector. I haven't done an interview in ten years! 115 00:06:40,610 --> 00:06:42,610 Don't worry, I'll be there. 116 00:06:59,550 --> 00:07:01,440 - Hiya. - What's happening with our Dom? 117 00:07:01,650 --> 00:07:03,450 Nothing. Why? What is happening with our Dom? 118 00:07:03,460 --> 00:07:05,420 He's saying you've chucked him out. 119 00:07:05,450 --> 00:07:06,750 - I didn't chuck him out. - Hey, 120 00:07:07,060 --> 00:07:08,690 I'm not blaming you, Rachel. 121 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,480 I haven't chucked him out. 122 00:07:10,510 --> 00:07:13,480 Right, well I can't put him up 123 00:07:13,690 --> 00:07:17,150 - cos Tony won't have it. - Alison. I haven't chucked him out. 124 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,970 We just had a bit of an argument, 125 00:07:21,180 --> 00:07:23,240 - Look, is he there now? - No, he's gone. 126 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:24,620 - Gone where? - I don't know. 127 00:07:24,730 --> 00:07:26,030 I don't think he knew himself. 128 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,370 Has he been behaving? 129 00:07:28,580 --> 00:07:30,240 He's not been drinking, or... 130 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,960 No. No. Not at all. It's one of the conditions of his license, 131 00:07:32,970 --> 00:07:34,270 not drinking, 132 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:35,780 he's really stuck to that, 133 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:38,740 it's just... 134 00:07:38,750 --> 00:07:40,050 What? 135 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,080 Look, Alison, I'm away for a couple of days. 136 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:46,880 I think I've frightened him. 137 00:07:50,630 --> 00:07:53,470 I told him he needed to get himself tested for HIV. 138 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:54,780 Why? 139 00:07:55,010 --> 00:07:56,990 He's hang on, Sammy, he's what? He's done what? 140 00:07:57,010 --> 00:07:58,610 The whore... Let's get this straight, 141 00:07:59,350 --> 00:08:02,550 the whore has kicked him, your dad, out? 142 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,960 - Why? - Because in prison. 143 00:08:04,970 --> 00:08:06,360 I think he might of... 144 00:08:07,490 --> 00:08:09,530 - like sold his assets. - Oh, no way! 145 00:08:09,550 --> 00:08:11,630 He can't keep his pants up, can he? 146 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:12,980 Right, well, there you go, eh? 147 00:08:12,990 --> 00:08:14,730 Taste of her own medicine. Bitch. 148 00:08:14,750 --> 00:08:16,110 Sold his... 149 00:08:16,810 --> 00:08:18,110 Can you work it out Alison? 150 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,000 He's bringing an overnight bag with him where? 151 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,960 I will. I'll call him but he's not homeless. 152 00:08:22,180 --> 00:08:24,430 No. No. No, Sammy. That is not happening. 153 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,220 He is not sleeping at our house. 154 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:27,550 He's got a key to my flat, 155 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,370 - so he's not homeless. - Yeah, I know he's your dad, 156 00:08:29,380 --> 00:08:30,800 but you tell him to ring me, 157 00:08:30,810 --> 00:08:32,680 I will deal with it, because he is not... 158 00:08:32,690 --> 00:08:34,580 Yeah. I'll ring him. I'll ring him now. 159 00:08:34,590 --> 00:08:37,130 No, Sammy, not even on the settee. I'm serious. 160 00:08:37,140 --> 00:08:38,960 I am not being mean, Sammy. 161 00:08:39,530 --> 00:08:40,980 - Sammy? - OK. Bye. 162 00:08:48,660 --> 00:08:51,050 - Dom? It's Rachel. - Dave. Gill. 163 00:08:51,060 --> 00:08:53,820 - Look, our Alison's just rung me. - You need to give me a ring. 164 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,440 Don't worry about what I said. 165 00:08:55,450 --> 00:08:57,320 If you wouldn't mind being so good and kind. 166 00:08:57,330 --> 00:08:59,100 Just get yourself back round to my flat. 167 00:08:59,110 --> 00:09:00,850 At your earliest convenience. 168 00:09:00,860 --> 00:09:03,240 We can talk about this properly when I get back. 169 00:09:03,450 --> 00:09:04,750 Right? 170 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:06,910 We'll sort things out. I promise. 171 00:09:07,650 --> 00:09:09,090 And will you ring me? 172 00:09:19,780 --> 00:09:23,750 How come Leach even knows about the similarities to his murders? 173 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,490 A local journalist made the connection. Yesterday. 174 00:09:26,500 --> 00:09:28,070 Who knows how, he's a journalist. 175 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,030 First person he's on the phone to is Leach's solicitor. 176 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,640 That's when the shit hit the fan. 177 00:09:32,670 --> 00:09:34,080 North Avon are pulling together 178 00:09:34,090 --> 00:09:37,320 an SIO support group which we'll be part of later tomorrow 179 00:09:37,530 --> 00:09:39,210 with some of the biggest names in the country. 180 00:09:39,220 --> 00:09:41,690 SCAS, Detectives, forensic scientists. 181 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,590 At the risk of sounding a bit thick, 182 00:09:45,150 --> 00:09:47,010 why's this such a big deal? 183 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,240 Because if someone's out there using Leach's exact MO, 184 00:09:50,250 --> 00:09:51,610 it throws doubt on his conviction. 185 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,920 It suggests it was never him in the first place, 186 00:09:54,180 --> 00:09:57,400 that the real killer is still out there which we know to be rubbish, 187 00:09:57,410 --> 00:10:00,420 but... there's a lot of people who think Leach's conviction 188 00:10:00,430 --> 00:10:02,760 is the biggest miscarriage of justice in criminal history. 189 00:10:02,770 --> 00:10:05,470 Journalists, peers, the tea and tiffin brigade. 190 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,680 Sadly, however, they're not without influence. 191 00:10:07,890 --> 00:10:11,110 If they can raise doubt and grounds for yet another appeal, 192 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,000 it's not beyond the realms of possibility 193 00:10:13,020 --> 00:10:14,630 Leach could walk. 194 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,080 So no pressure then. 195 00:10:29,490 --> 00:10:30,790 DCI Murray? 196 00:10:31,530 --> 00:10:33,780 - 'Ello 'ello. - DC Bennett, North Avon. 197 00:10:34,390 --> 00:10:35,690 This is DC Bailey. 198 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:37,000 - Rachel. - Ed. 199 00:11:50,070 --> 00:11:52,090 - Mr. Leach? - Yes, hello. 200 00:11:52,210 --> 00:11:55,190 I'm DC Bailey, this is DC Bennett. We're here at your request. 201 00:11:57,010 --> 00:11:58,400 Before we start I must tell you 202 00:11:58,410 --> 00:12:00,060 that this meeting is being recorded. 203 00:12:00,210 --> 00:12:01,510 Good. 204 00:12:02,050 --> 00:12:03,990 I must tell you that you're not under arrest 205 00:12:04,210 --> 00:12:05,780 and you don't have to say anything to us, 206 00:12:05,790 --> 00:12:07,420 but anything you do say may be used in evidence. 207 00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:08,730 I know that. 208 00:12:08,810 --> 00:12:11,640 I know that you've been advised that you can have a solicitor present, 209 00:12:11,650 --> 00:12:14,450 but I believe that you've indicated that you don't want one. 210 00:12:14,460 --> 00:12:15,910 - Is that still the case? - Yes. 211 00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:18,210 Could I ask why that is, Mr. Leach? 212 00:12:18,420 --> 00:12:22,420 I would've thought given your situation that that would be advisable. 213 00:12:25,930 --> 00:12:28,070 Is that a Manchester accent? 214 00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:31,070 What would you like to talk to us about Mr. Leach? 215 00:12:34,130 --> 00:12:36,190 I don't know how much you know about me, 216 00:12:36,420 --> 00:12:38,230 - my situation. - I'm assisting 217 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,720 the investigation into the death of Yasmin Heaney. 218 00:12:40,730 --> 00:12:43,650 You contacted the incident room at Bristol saying 219 00:12:43,660 --> 00:12:45,830 you had some information regarding that incident. 220 00:12:45,850 --> 00:12:47,310 I didn't... 221 00:12:52,130 --> 00:12:54,520 I didn't want my solicitor here because... 222 00:12:55,150 --> 00:12:56,520 he has a son. 223 00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:59,170 Alastair Jackson. 224 00:13:01,210 --> 00:13:03,910 And it's becoming increasingly apparent to me for some time 225 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,660 and now I'm utterly convinced that 226 00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:08,490 he is the man you're looking for. 227 00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:12,890 And I don't just mean for this latest attack, either. 228 00:13:14,290 --> 00:13:15,620 Desmond Jackson 229 00:13:16,190 --> 00:13:17,950 approached me after I'd been convicted, 230 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:19,280 several lawyers did, knowing that 231 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:21,400 I'd been poorly served by the man 232 00:13:21,410 --> 00:13:23,160 who'd originally represented me in court, 233 00:13:23,170 --> 00:13:26,450 knowing that I had been the victim of a miscarriage of justice. 234 00:13:27,230 --> 00:13:29,560 I know you don't believe that, but... 235 00:13:29,790 --> 00:13:32,200 I took him on, Desmond Jackson, 236 00:13:32,210 --> 00:13:34,890 because he seemed the most keen 237 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,070 as well as being the most able. 238 00:13:39,090 --> 00:13:40,620 I now have reason to believe 239 00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:43,650 that he had ulterior motives in approaching me, 240 00:13:43,660 --> 00:13:44,960 motives that... 241 00:13:45,070 --> 00:13:48,460 were to do with contriving to keep me inside prison, 242 00:13:49,570 --> 00:13:52,350 once I'd been blamed for what his son had done. 243 00:13:54,330 --> 00:13:57,390 And what grounds have you got for making this allegation, Mr. Leach? 244 00:13:58,090 --> 00:13:59,990 After I was convicted, 245 00:14:01,090 --> 00:14:04,030 Alastair Jackson appeared to become obsessed with me. 246 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,740 He wrote to me incessantly, 247 00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:07,810 he even requested to visit me, 248 00:14:07,820 --> 00:14:09,550 which I allowed him do... twice. 249 00:14:09,890 --> 00:14:14,190 At the time, you see, I regarded him as a supporter. 250 00:14:15,290 --> 00:14:17,540 But looking back I realize now that 251 00:14:17,790 --> 00:14:20,310 it wasn't me he was obsessed with. 252 00:14:21,290 --> 00:14:22,670 He was obsessed with the women 253 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,090 I was accused of having murdered. 254 00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:28,550 He certainly knew far more about them than I ever did. 255 00:14:30,130 --> 00:14:31,460 I now believe... 256 00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:33,560 from what he said... 257 00:14:34,930 --> 00:14:36,810 that he knew them. 258 00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:39,770 All of them, personally. 259 00:14:40,650 --> 00:14:42,700 Well, don't you think that's significant? 260 00:14:44,330 --> 00:14:46,450 Isn't it true that most murder victims 261 00:14:46,460 --> 00:14:48,020 are killed by people they know? 262 00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:52,640 I'd never met this man until sometime after his father offered to help me, 263 00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:56,550 and yet it would appear that he knew personally the four women 264 00:14:56,570 --> 00:14:59,290 I was convicted of having murdered. I didn't. 265 00:15:00,170 --> 00:15:01,730 So you're saying that your solicitor... 266 00:15:02,770 --> 00:15:04,530 Desmond Jackson... 267 00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:06,940 is fully aware of what his son... 268 00:15:06,990 --> 00:15:10,120 may have done and is helping to cover it up? 269 00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:11,850 Yes. 270 00:15:14,410 --> 00:15:16,120 Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. 271 00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:19,230 Can you prove any of the things that you're saying? 272 00:15:19,790 --> 00:15:24,750 Well, I imagine I could, yes, if I wasn't stuck in here. 273 00:15:28,490 --> 00:15:31,750 He knew Yasmin Heaney, too. 274 00:15:32,850 --> 00:15:36,690 He mentioned her a number of times in letters to me. 275 00:15:38,530 --> 00:15:40,770 - Would you like to see? - Yeah. 276 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:49,470 I've made copies. 277 00:15:50,270 --> 00:15:51,570 OK. 278 00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:55,920 When did you realize this... 279 00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:58,390 about Alastair Jackson? 280 00:15:58,410 --> 00:16:00,570 When I heard about Yasmin Heaney. 281 00:16:02,930 --> 00:16:05,610 It'd been staring me in the face. 282 00:16:06,090 --> 00:16:07,390 For years... 283 00:16:09,250 --> 00:16:10,720 and then the penny dropped. 284 00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:14,790 Is there anything else you'd like to say to me, Mr. Leach? 285 00:16:16,810 --> 00:16:18,710 I shouldn't be in here. 286 00:16:21,290 --> 00:16:24,360 We have picked Alastair Jackson up, by the way. Twice. 287 00:16:24,390 --> 00:16:27,610 Yeah. I read that in the information pack. 288 00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:29,030 He did know Yasmin Heaney. 289 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,610 He spent rather too much time in the library where she works. 290 00:16:32,370 --> 00:16:34,220 You making your way down to Bristol now, ma'am? 291 00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:35,530 That's the plan! 292 00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:38,000 Are you all right? 293 00:16:38,070 --> 00:16:39,650 I hate these places. 294 00:16:40,030 --> 00:16:42,040 I appreciate that not all will have had chance to 295 00:16:42,050 --> 00:16:44,580 read the handouts in any depth, ladies and gentlemen, 296 00:16:44,590 --> 00:16:47,100 so whilst our victim Yasmin 297 00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:49,480 is a main line of inquiry, 298 00:16:49,490 --> 00:16:50,800 the nature of the attack, 299 00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:52,550 the fact that it resembles the Leach murders 300 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,070 of 13 years ago, have lead us 301 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,350 to focus primarily on two main lines of investigation. 302 00:16:58,050 --> 00:17:00,450 People who had access to confidential information 303 00:17:00,460 --> 00:17:02,110 during the original investigation 304 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,080 that's the lawyers, police officers, jury 305 00:17:05,170 --> 00:17:08,750 and people who had access to Leach when he was inside prison. 306 00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:11,640 Of the people we've identified as being most interesting, 307 00:17:11,650 --> 00:17:13,980 perhaps the most significant at this moment 308 00:17:14,010 --> 00:17:15,630 is Alastair Jackson. 309 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,390 Now, Jackson is unemployed, 310 00:17:18,070 --> 00:17:21,060 misfit, obsessed with Leach. 311 00:17:21,830 --> 00:17:23,390 An apparent supporter of Leach. 312 00:17:23,410 --> 00:17:26,420 He visited him on two occasions inside prison. 313 00:17:26,430 --> 00:17:29,570 His father, oddly enough, is Leach's solicitor, 314 00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:32,650 so Jackson may have had had access to confidential information 315 00:17:32,660 --> 00:17:36,170 right there in his parents home at the time of the original investigation. 316 00:17:36,290 --> 00:17:37,780 His alibi 317 00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:39,950 at the time that Yasmin went missing 318 00:17:40,370 --> 00:17:43,010 turned out to be an elaborate pack of lies... 319 00:17:43,050 --> 00:17:45,450 But still no arrest. 320 00:17:46,050 --> 00:17:48,070 DCI Murray came across from the Crime Faculty 321 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,360 to help us with the original investigation 322 00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:53,630 and she has in fact spoken to Leach this very morning 323 00:17:54,110 --> 00:17:56,930 at his request inside Ravenhill Prison. 324 00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:59,450 He himself is pointing the finger at Jackson. 325 00:17:59,460 --> 00:18:01,600 And not just for Yasmin's murder either. 326 00:18:01,610 --> 00:18:04,210 Leach is suggesting that Jackson was responsible 327 00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:07,200 for the murders he was sent down for 13 years ago. 328 00:18:07,650 --> 00:18:09,150 I hope you don't mind me saying, 329 00:18:09,410 --> 00:18:12,150 but if you're seriously considering Alastair Jackson for Yasmin, 330 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,620 we're opening a can of worms, 331 00:18:13,630 --> 00:18:16,710 and one which Leach will exploit to the hilt, 332 00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:18,900 and frankly, in my book, 333 00:18:18,910 --> 00:18:20,720 the fact that Leach is pointing the finger 334 00:18:20,730 --> 00:18:23,320 at Jackson is practically grounds to rule him out. 335 00:18:36,330 --> 00:18:38,090 Isn't there like a really screaming flaw 336 00:18:38,190 --> 00:18:40,210 in the whole basis of the investigation? 337 00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:42,150 Is there? 338 00:18:43,410 --> 00:18:44,710 - What? - Well, 339 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,390 their two lines of inquiry 340 00:18:46,410 --> 00:18:48,360 and the way that you're talking 341 00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:51,380 are based entirely on the assumption that 342 00:18:51,390 --> 00:18:53,190 that Leach is guilty of the original crimes. 343 00:18:53,210 --> 00:18:54,510 Thank you. 344 00:18:54,820 --> 00:18:56,390 It's not an assumption. 345 00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:58,410 He is guilty. 346 00:18:59,010 --> 00:19:00,310 Yeah. But... 347 00:19:01,050 --> 00:19:03,300 - What if he isn't? - But, he is. 348 00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:06,340 Yeah, but if he isn't, then the whole thing's skewed. 349 00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:09,760 Rachel Bailey. Gill Murray. We've got reservations. 350 00:19:10,030 --> 00:19:12,390 Yeah, but he is. So it isn't. 351 00:19:12,430 --> 00:19:14,150 Fill these forms out, please. 352 00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:16,170 I feel like... 353 00:19:16,750 --> 00:19:18,610 you're not hearing what I'm saying. 354 00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:20,500 You've read your ringbinders. 355 00:19:20,550 --> 00:19:23,660 It was Leach's DNA at the scene. 356 00:19:24,090 --> 00:19:25,570 His thumb print 357 00:19:25,890 --> 00:19:28,300 on the pendant of Catherine Maloney's necklace, 358 00:19:28,410 --> 00:19:30,550 pressed so hard it was embedded into her skin 359 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,820 and at the time he couldn't account 360 00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:35,570 for how else his dabs could have got on it, even if he came up 361 00:19:35,580 --> 00:19:37,710 with some convoluted rubbish about it afterwards. 362 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,520 - Yeah, but... - His delivery schedule 363 00:19:39,730 --> 00:19:43,510 put him at or near all the murders. 364 00:19:43,650 --> 00:19:45,080 We even had a witness who ID'd him 365 00:19:45,090 --> 00:19:47,030 in the area of one of them. 366 00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:49,370 All right, forget it. 367 00:19:49,380 --> 00:19:51,580 Do you think he's a bit too good looking to be a killer? 368 00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:54,450 Did you ever seen a photo of Ted Bundy? 369 00:19:54,550 --> 00:19:56,230 Think he was a bit too good looking as well 370 00:19:56,490 --> 00:19:58,660 to have raped and murdered 34 women? 371 00:19:59,170 --> 00:20:00,670 I didn't believe him, 372 00:20:00,890 --> 00:20:02,410 but I didn't not believe him either. 373 00:20:02,670 --> 00:20:05,870 Rachel! Are you serious? You'd let that man out? 374 00:20:05,970 --> 00:20:07,950 No! No. 375 00:20:08,730 --> 00:20:11,290 Well, yeah, if he's not guilty. 376 00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:12,890 - Oh, God. - What? 377 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:15,550 Bandits at two. Julian McAndrew... 378 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,200 writes for The Guardian and The New Statesman, 379 00:20:17,210 --> 00:20:19,410 one of Leach's staunchest dickhead supporters. 380 00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:21,685 - That was quick. - It's volatile, I told you. Don't look. 381 00:20:21,710 --> 00:20:25,380 I can almost understand them not getting it, but you? 382 00:20:25,530 --> 00:20:27,420 You used to work in the sex crimes unit. 383 00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:29,160 You know rape isn't about sex. 384 00:20:29,170 --> 00:20:31,760 It's about power and control and humiliation. 385 00:20:31,770 --> 00:20:33,190 He's a sick fuck, 386 00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:35,270 and he can hide it better than your average Herbert 387 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,130 because he's clever, clever enough 388 00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:39,750 to make someone like you doubt forensic evidence. 389 00:20:40,210 --> 00:20:42,900 Room 703 and Room 522. 390 00:20:43,150 --> 00:20:44,750 - Enjoy your stay, ladies. - Thank you. 391 00:20:45,150 --> 00:20:46,450 All we have to do, well, 392 00:20:46,460 --> 00:20:48,240 all North Avon have to do is find out 393 00:20:48,250 --> 00:20:50,150 who killed Yasmin, and prove it fast, 394 00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:51,900 before people like McAndrew 395 00:20:51,910 --> 00:20:53,550 manage to turn it into something it isn't. 396 00:20:54,090 --> 00:20:56,050 We know who killed the others, Rachel, 397 00:20:56,450 --> 00:20:57,750 it was that nice man you spoke to 398 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,110 this morning at HMP Ravenhill. 399 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:00,540 Well, all the same. I think we... 400 00:21:01,010 --> 00:21:03,030 I think they ought to look very closely 401 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,580 - at Jackson again. - I agree with you 402 00:21:04,590 --> 00:21:06,400 cos I think Leach is trying to set Jackson up, which... 403 00:21:06,410 --> 00:21:07,710 which... 404 00:21:09,450 --> 00:21:10,750 means he's involved. 405 00:21:10,940 --> 00:21:12,340 It's not just someone who's copying him. 406 00:21:12,350 --> 00:21:14,060 It's someone he's conspired with, 407 00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:16,940 someone he's consciously inculcated with his... 408 00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:19,330 And he's arrogant enough to think he 409 00:21:19,340 --> 00:21:20,900 can point us in the wrong direction. 410 00:21:21,070 --> 00:21:23,050 Stick your bag in your room, back here in five minutes, 411 00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:24,530 we're going to the incident room. 412 00:21:33,850 --> 00:21:35,150 Ed! 413 00:21:35,890 --> 00:21:38,080 - Hello, ma'am. - Where's Mr. Wallis? 414 00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:39,750 He's driven over to Abbots Leigh. 415 00:21:42,050 --> 00:21:43,350 Another girl's turned up. 416 00:21:43,770 --> 00:21:45,070 Same. 417 00:21:45,630 --> 00:21:46,930 Cable ties. 418 00:21:55,550 --> 00:21:57,110 Yeah. It makes sense. 419 00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:58,770 I mean, it was always a possibility of course 420 00:21:58,780 --> 00:22:01,510 that Leach was behind the whole thing, yeah but... 421 00:22:02,430 --> 00:22:04,300 does it actually change the investigation? 422 00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:05,610 If we accept that he's pulling the strings? 423 00:22:05,620 --> 00:22:07,390 No, no, of course it doesn't, but again 424 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,350 it points the finger away from Jackson, 425 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:11,610 given that he was so keen to implicate him. 426 00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:14,800 Look, Gill. I don't want it to be Jackson any more than you do. 427 00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:19,190 I know what kind of unhelpful frenzy this could set off in the media. 428 00:22:19,310 --> 00:22:21,310 But we have got to keep an open mind. 429 00:22:21,410 --> 00:22:25,290 Yeah. Course. But this is someone who is inside with him. 430 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:27,930 This is not a visitor, certainly not Jackson. 431 00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:30,360 This is someone not unlike himself. 432 00:22:30,670 --> 00:22:32,350 This is someone who is capable of doing that. 433 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:36,120 Even a copycat killing, you don't go from nought to 90 in 10 seconds. 434 00:22:36,130 --> 00:22:37,920 Jackson's got no criminal record. 435 00:22:38,030 --> 00:22:40,660 You and I both know that whoever did this has got previous. 436 00:22:40,670 --> 00:22:43,170 Jackson hasn't even got a speeding ticket 437 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,070 cos he doesn't drive! So 438 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,970 how's he got that body out here? 439 00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:49,260 You're absolutely right. 440 00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:53,900 So what haven't I done, Gill? 441 00:22:53,910 --> 00:22:56,850 Could I ask how you're prioritizing interviewing 442 00:22:56,860 --> 00:22:59,360 and eliminating the people Leach has been inside with? 443 00:22:59,370 --> 00:23:01,740 I mean, prisoners not wardens and visitors. 444 00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:03,180 Yeah, well, initially we're looking at people 445 00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:05,480 who he's close to in the last five years, 446 00:23:05,850 --> 00:23:09,020 people he spent time with who were released in the last year. 447 00:23:09,030 --> 00:23:12,020 I think you should be prioritizing your sexually-motivated killers. 448 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,670 Going back the whole 13 years, 449 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,740 however brief their exposure to him. 450 00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:17,060 Well, that was discussed, but... 451 00:23:17,070 --> 00:23:19,660 I hope you don't mind, but I rang the clinical psychologist 452 00:23:19,670 --> 00:23:21,660 I work with in Manchester, Martin Hines. 453 00:23:21,970 --> 00:23:24,800 He says this could be someone Leach met in the toilets 454 00:23:24,810 --> 00:23:27,040 for five minutes once a week ten years ago. 455 00:23:27,050 --> 00:23:29,380 He'll have avoided being noticed with this person 456 00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:31,490 because he's got too much in common with him. 457 00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:34,080 He's persistently maintained his innocence, so 458 00:23:34,090 --> 00:23:36,570 so publicly this person would be anathema to him. 459 00:23:36,580 --> 00:23:39,680 Privately though, this is someone he'll have identified 460 00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:43,680 really quickly, then cultivated, then avoided being seen with. 461 00:23:43,690 --> 00:23:46,090 He'll have promised him something, God knows what, 462 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:49,160 a spree together if ever he helps him get out, 463 00:23:49,170 --> 00:23:51,970 not money, that wouldn't motivate this sort of sick bugger. 464 00:23:51,980 --> 00:23:53,950 And he's so controlled, Leach, 465 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,940 this could be someone who was released three or four years ago, 466 00:23:56,950 --> 00:24:00,010 waiting for Leach to give him the nod at just the right moment... 467 00:24:00,070 --> 00:24:01,370 With exactly the right victim. 468 00:24:01,380 --> 00:24:03,590 Leach knew that Jackson knew Yasmin Heaney. 469 00:24:03,630 --> 00:24:06,010 He mentioned her in the letters that he wrote to Leach, 470 00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:09,220 Jackson did, and she fitted the victim profile. 471 00:24:09,730 --> 00:24:12,070 Well, a couple of the lads did a comprehensive list of everybody 472 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,930 that Leach was exposed to inside prison going back the whole 13 years. 473 00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:16,360 Do you want to have look at it, 474 00:24:16,770 --> 00:24:18,750 - suggest a new strategy? - Sure. 475 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,390 Have you identified her? 476 00:24:21,090 --> 00:24:22,860 There was a 30-year-old woman reported missing 477 00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:24,210 in Bristol last week... 478 00:24:24,450 --> 00:24:25,910 Jodie Winterbourne. 479 00:24:26,410 --> 00:24:27,710 30, 480 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,020 five foot eight, 481 00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:30,630 short dark hair. 482 00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:33,770 She's ticking a lot of boxes. 483 00:24:37,070 --> 00:24:38,690 Dark brown hair, five foot eight. 484 00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:40,910 What about it? 485 00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:42,490 I fit the victim profile, 486 00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:44,100 that's why you asked me to interview him. 487 00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:47,250 Yeah. I thought he'd fall for you though, not the other way round. 488 00:24:48,150 --> 00:24:49,650 - That's unethical. - Sue me. 489 00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:51,760 It didn't occur to me in fact. 490 00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:53,780 You were the first Tier 3 I bumped into. 491 00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:55,880 I asked where Janet was, if you remember. 492 00:24:57,070 --> 00:24:58,370 So is this what you used to do? 493 00:24:58,490 --> 00:25:00,560 Drop into other forces, tell 'em what to do? 494 00:25:00,770 --> 00:25:03,480 You don't tell people what to do. You advise them. 495 00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:05,650 I advised on eight jobs in one week once. 496 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,580 - What, murders? - Yep. 497 00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:09,720 Still, it's swings and roundabouts, isn't it? 498 00:25:09,730 --> 00:25:11,030 If I hadn't given it up 499 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,420 I'd never have met you and Kevin. 500 00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:23,010 So he's been in four prisons, 501 00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:24,510 had 58 cell moves. 502 00:25:24,550 --> 00:25:28,130 That's a total of 3,426 inmates 503 00:25:28,140 --> 00:25:29,550 he's potentially come into contact 504 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:30,860 with over 13 years. 505 00:25:31,270 --> 00:25:32,650 Let's start with a list of those 506 00:25:32,660 --> 00:25:34,350 convicted of murder and of rape. 507 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:35,900 - Thank you. - OK. 508 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,550 Then a list of those just convicted of murder, 509 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,010 cos, let's faces, how many times 510 00:25:40,020 --> 00:25:41,460 have we had someone who's raped and murdered, 511 00:25:41,470 --> 00:25:43,780 but the CPS only push on the murder charge? 512 00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:45,810 - Tell me about it. - Then, third... 513 00:25:45,820 --> 00:25:47,640 a list of those convicted of just rape. 514 00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:49,260 Cool. Yep. 515 00:25:49,290 --> 00:25:50,730 Ma'am, is it all right if I... 516 00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:52,370 - make a call? - Yeah. Course. 517 00:25:57,450 --> 00:25:58,750 Dom? 518 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,420 - Hiya. - Where are you? 519 00:26:01,170 --> 00:26:02,470 Your house. 520 00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:04,410 Where have you been? 521 00:26:05,460 --> 00:26:06,860 Nowhere just here. 522 00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:09,590 Me and Alison have both been trying to get hold of you. 523 00:26:10,290 --> 00:26:11,810 I know, I'm sorry. 524 00:26:14,270 --> 00:26:15,720 You all right? 525 00:26:17,630 --> 00:26:18,930 Yep. 526 00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:21,610 I've been worried about you. 527 00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:24,890 Sorry. 528 00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:27,670 Are you eating properly? 529 00:26:28,180 --> 00:26:29,480 Yep. 530 00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:30,810 What've you had today? 531 00:26:32,270 --> 00:26:33,570 Toast. 532 00:26:37,390 --> 00:26:38,690 Listen, Dom... 533 00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:42,690 I love you. 534 00:26:44,010 --> 00:26:46,250 I don't want you to be embarrassed about what's happened. 535 00:26:47,870 --> 00:26:51,120 I just want you to move on and get your life back together. 536 00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:53,290 Yeah. 537 00:26:54,530 --> 00:26:57,640 Some of the most horrendous, violent murders 538 00:26:57,650 --> 00:26:59,530 I've ever seen have involved gay men 539 00:26:59,550 --> 00:27:02,670 with other men in exactly that situation like you were in. 540 00:27:05,180 --> 00:27:06,970 I'm sorry if you think... 541 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,920 Look, I wasn't over-reacting. Believe me, I wasn't. 542 00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:15,770 OK. 543 00:27:16,510 --> 00:27:19,070 We'll work everything out, all right? 544 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,790 We will, I promise. 545 00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:25,910 I want you to buy some fresh fruit and veg 546 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,380 with that money I left you, right? 547 00:27:29,980 --> 00:27:33,370 - Dom? - Yep. Yep. 548 00:27:33,910 --> 00:27:37,520 All right I've got to go, but I'll be back soon. Soon as I can. 549 00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:40,230 Yep. 550 00:27:42,190 --> 00:27:44,770 I'll see you. See you. 551 00:28:01,730 --> 00:28:04,690 42 killers also convicted of rape, now released. 552 00:28:04,790 --> 00:28:06,620 Most of them are elderly, past it. 553 00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:09,770 12 under the age of 60. The youngest is 38. 554 00:28:10,180 --> 00:28:12,090 We need the crime scene photos 555 00:28:12,130 --> 00:28:15,080 of the murders that each of those 12 were originally convicted of. 556 00:28:15,090 --> 00:28:17,030 - Yep. - And we need to compare them... 557 00:28:17,050 --> 00:28:19,010 - Ed? - Listening. 558 00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:21,010 With the crime scenes from the present two murders... 559 00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:23,870 Yasmin's and this latest one Jodie if it is Jodie... 560 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,620 - Yep... - starting with those 561 00:28:25,630 --> 00:28:27,420 who now live geographically closest 562 00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:30,170 because every one of these twisted sods should be out on a license. 563 00:28:30,270 --> 00:28:32,150 They'll have a parole officer to report to, 564 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,430 so chances are it's not someone who's in Edinburgh. 565 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:35,910 - Yep. - There's another thing 566 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,190 I want you to do. I want you to compare 567 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,400 the photos of Yasmin's murder and Jodie's murder with each other 568 00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:44,550 and then compare those with the four Leach was convicted of. 569 00:28:44,590 --> 00:28:47,170 And this time I want you to look at the differences 570 00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:49,140 as well as the similarities. 571 00:28:49,150 --> 00:28:51,770 I think they've focused on the similarities too much. 572 00:28:51,780 --> 00:28:54,390 I want you to look at what this new bloke's brought to the party 573 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,290 that's nothing to do with Leach's MO. 574 00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:58,920 Something all of his own from his previous offences 575 00:28:58,950 --> 00:29:01,630 that's seeped through, something he's probably not aware of himself. 576 00:29:02,180 --> 00:29:03,480 Right. 577 00:29:34,750 --> 00:29:37,110 You've got four men in your force area 578 00:29:37,150 --> 00:29:38,890 who could be the person we're looking for. 579 00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:42,320 Three of them are registered with their probation officers here in Bristol, 580 00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:45,110 but there's another one, a fella called Philip Martin Hibbert... 581 00:29:46,730 --> 00:29:49,110 who's registered at an address in Yeovil. 582 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,730 He murdered two women 15 years ago, raped 'em as well, 583 00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:54,040 but he was never charged with that. 584 00:29:54,050 --> 00:29:55,910 He was released 18 months since. 585 00:29:56,370 --> 00:29:58,370 The other three are John James Wilkes, 586 00:29:58,380 --> 00:30:00,260 registered at an address in St Paul's, 587 00:30:00,770 --> 00:30:02,630 sexually assaulted three women in Lincolnshire, 588 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:03,940 - none of whom died. - But 589 00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:06,020 But one of whom the police believed he'd left for dead, 590 00:30:06,030 --> 00:30:07,910 so it was an attempted murder rather than a murder. 591 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,780 He was released four years ago, originally sent down in 1997. 592 00:30:11,790 --> 00:30:14,930 Hassan Abuzein, registered an address Knowle West, 593 00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:16,250 sent down 1995, raped 594 00:30:16,260 --> 00:30:18,150 and murdered his niece in Southall, London. 595 00:30:18,770 --> 00:30:20,950 Released from Ravenhill six months ago. 596 00:30:21,150 --> 00:30:24,510 Ashley Robert Boyall, ex-army, registered address Easton, 597 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,510 released two-and-a-half years ago. Served 15 years 598 00:30:26,820 --> 00:30:28,240 for murdering two sex workers. 599 00:30:28,250 --> 00:30:30,560 That was in... Kettering. 600 00:30:30,570 --> 00:30:34,230 We can widen the net obviously if this doesn't give us what we're looking for. 601 00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:36,310 But I asked Rachel to look at the differences 602 00:30:36,430 --> 00:30:39,250 between Leach's original crime scenes and the present ones 603 00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:40,560 to see if there was any seepage, 604 00:30:40,570 --> 00:30:42,030 things that didn't fit in with Leach 605 00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:44,890 but which did correspond to the MO of these men. 606 00:30:44,910 --> 00:30:47,770 We think this one, the first one, Hibbert, 607 00:30:48,180 --> 00:30:49,690 could be the man you're looking for. 608 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:51,890 - Show him. - Well, that's Yasmin Heaney 609 00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:53,750 and that's Jodie, last night, yeah? 610 00:30:54,350 --> 00:30:57,960 That's Heather Price and that's Jane Reid, Hibbert's victims. 611 00:31:02,910 --> 00:31:05,130 He dragged them all there by their arms. 612 00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:07,700 Which suggests they were already dead when he took 'em there. 613 00:31:07,710 --> 00:31:10,490 Leach didn't do that, he killed his victims at the scene. 614 00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:12,690 There are a few more details pointing at Hibbert, 615 00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:15,060 - which we can go through if you like. - Sorry. 616 00:31:15,910 --> 00:31:17,470 Hello. Rick Wallis. 617 00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:20,250 Yep. 618 00:31:21,710 --> 00:31:23,010 OK, thank you. 619 00:31:23,020 --> 00:31:24,590 Thank you. Bye now. Bye. 620 00:31:25,550 --> 00:31:26,850 That was the lab. 621 00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:31,830 Alastair Jackson's DNA on a cigarette butt we found 622 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,700 at last night's crime scene. 623 00:31:37,940 --> 00:31:40,830 I'm just asking before you race in and make an arrest which, 624 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,260 if you believe that's the right thing to do, that's your call. 625 00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:44,940 But I'm asking you to consider this... 626 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,060 we've been working on the theory that 627 00:31:47,070 --> 00:31:48,660 Leach is setting Jackson up, 628 00:31:48,670 --> 00:31:51,610 working with an accomplice, who is capable of rape and murder. 629 00:31:51,620 --> 00:31:53,630 I'm pretty certain that same person 630 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,180 would be more than capable of planting a fag butt too. 631 00:31:56,340 --> 00:31:59,360 I suggest that someone in Jackson's orbit 632 00:31:59,370 --> 00:32:00,670 has watched him smoke a fag 633 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,440 then picked it up when he's stubbed it out. 634 00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:03,780 Who does he hang around with? 635 00:32:04,060 --> 00:32:06,300 Jackson? No-one. 636 00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:09,850 I told you, he's an oddity, he's a loner. 637 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,690 Someone, anyone. Where does he go, what does he do? 638 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,560 We know he liked going in the library where Yasmin worked. 639 00:32:16,450 --> 00:32:19,310 Well, the only thing was the man who wasn't there. 640 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,430 - Who? - The man who doesn't exist. 641 00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:24,050 - Who? - Dunno. He didn't exist. 642 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,960 Yeah. Jackson's alibi. 643 00:32:25,970 --> 00:32:27,850 He said that when Yasmin was being attacked, 644 00:32:27,860 --> 00:32:29,680 he was with some fella called Tim Smith 645 00:32:29,690 --> 00:32:32,230 who he said worked for Burton's builders' supplies 646 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,380 on St Bude's Road, and who lived in a flat in Frome, 647 00:32:35,390 --> 00:32:38,780 and who he said he got very drunk with on the night in question. 648 00:32:39,420 --> 00:32:40,720 So drunk in fact, that he could 649 00:32:40,730 --> 00:32:42,660 remember almost nothing the next day. 650 00:32:42,670 --> 00:32:43,970 We had it checked out. 651 00:32:44,270 --> 00:32:45,670 We checked it out thoroughly, I mean 652 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,440 we checked every Tim Smith in our force area, 653 00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:50,570 and in the surrounding four force areas, and nothing. 654 00:32:50,580 --> 00:32:51,880 So where did Jackson go to with this 655 00:32:51,890 --> 00:32:53,190 Tim Smith to get drunk then? 656 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,720 Well, he said they drank at home, Jackson's home. 657 00:32:55,740 --> 00:32:57,040 There were no witnesses so no-one's 658 00:32:57,050 --> 00:32:59,020 seen or heard of this Tim Smith. 659 00:32:59,810 --> 00:33:01,630 He did invent it, so... 660 00:33:02,060 --> 00:33:04,720 it makes you wonder why would you make something up if you've got nothing to hide? 661 00:33:04,730 --> 00:33:06,520 But you don't think Jackson was off his face. 662 00:33:06,530 --> 00:33:08,750 The whole thing is a crap attempt at an alibi? 663 00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:10,120 That's what we were left with, yeah. 664 00:33:10,130 --> 00:33:12,170 What else did he say about the man who doesn't exist? 665 00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:14,480 How recently had he got to know him? 666 00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:15,800 Recent. 667 00:33:15,810 --> 00:33:18,070 Well, what if Tim Smith does exist? 668 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,610 Only he's not called Tim Smith. 669 00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:23,100 And he sat with Jackson, let him drink himself stupid and 670 00:33:23,970 --> 00:33:26,810 left him rat-arsed, incapable, alone, 671 00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:28,270 and then he went off and committed the murder. 672 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,130 So how about sticking Hibbert in a pre-arrest vim's ID parade 673 00:33:32,140 --> 00:33:34,920 and seeing if Jackson recognizes Hibbert but as Tim Smith. 674 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,360 Is it all right if I call you Alastair, Mr. Jackson? 675 00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:43,420 You can call me what you like. 676 00:33:43,850 --> 00:33:45,360 You probably will anyway. 677 00:33:46,110 --> 00:33:47,530 We just wanted to have a little bit 678 00:33:47,540 --> 00:33:49,130 of a talk with you about your friend. 679 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,260 The one you told us about... Tim Smith. 680 00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:54,810 Have you seen him at all recently? 681 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,140 No. 682 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,490 What we were wondering, Alastair, is... 683 00:34:02,180 --> 00:34:04,770 do you think if we showed you some photographs 684 00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:07,110 that you might be able to recognize him? 685 00:34:07,650 --> 00:34:09,370 Yes, I imagine so. 686 00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:13,680 Why? Have you found him? 687 00:34:13,980 --> 00:34:15,830 We think we might be getting close. 688 00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:17,850 OK, 689 00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:20,230 I'm just going to ask you a few questions. 690 00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:21,800 First question might seem a bit odd 691 00:34:21,810 --> 00:34:24,700 but I will explain to you at the end why I'm asking. 692 00:34:25,380 --> 00:34:26,680 You told us 693 00:34:27,090 --> 00:34:29,320 that you and Mr. Smith 694 00:34:29,350 --> 00:34:31,270 went back to your house and had a few drinks. 695 00:34:31,300 --> 00:34:33,190 I thought you didn't believe me. 696 00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:35,900 About Tim Smith. 697 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:39,660 You said he stayed a while, chatting. 698 00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:43,730 Yes. He did. 699 00:34:44,690 --> 00:34:47,190 Now, I know you told us 700 00:34:47,220 --> 00:34:49,420 you don't remember much about what happened later. 701 00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:50,730 But... 702 00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:55,010 if we were to come round to your house with you... 703 00:34:56,060 --> 00:34:58,610 do you think you might be able to point to anything 704 00:34:58,620 --> 00:35:00,860 he might have touched while he was there? 705 00:35:02,180 --> 00:35:04,320 He went through some of my CDs. 706 00:35:04,350 --> 00:35:05,680 Is that any good? 707 00:35:07,140 --> 00:35:10,080 Yes, I think that would be spot on. 708 00:35:10,110 --> 00:35:11,650 You see if we can get his fingerprints... 709 00:35:11,660 --> 00:35:13,090 In fact the glass he drank out of 710 00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:15,220 is probably still on the floor somewhere. 711 00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:16,920 Nice. 712 00:35:18,060 --> 00:35:20,420 And are you anywhere nearer catching the killer? 713 00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:23,810 Because you know what's being said, 714 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,270 don't you? In the press. 715 00:35:28,380 --> 00:35:30,860 That whoever is murdering these women 716 00:35:31,070 --> 00:35:33,920 could've been the killer 13 years ago. 717 00:35:34,650 --> 00:35:36,500 My father and I have been saying for years 718 00:35:36,510 --> 00:35:38,440 that Jeremy Leach is an innocent man. 719 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,960 And he's been talking so highly of you, pal. 720 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,320 Would you like to come this way please, Mr. Jackson? 721 00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:48,510 Hello. Rick Wallis. 722 00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:51,990 Yep. He's identified Him. 723 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,570 Jackson's identified Hibbert! Let's pick him up! 724 00:35:57,460 --> 00:35:58,760 Well done. 725 00:35:58,770 --> 00:36:01,210 You stick with me kid, I'll get you into a fight. 726 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:15,950 Yeah, hold on! 727 00:36:21,410 --> 00:36:22,710 Fuck. 728 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,440 - Hello. - I fell asleep. 729 00:36:26,450 --> 00:36:28,830 You did right. Can I come in? 730 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:31,660 Yeah, 731 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,500 I was just packing. 732 00:36:35,610 --> 00:36:37,440 I've just had a phone call. 733 00:36:38,340 --> 00:36:39,690 It's bad news. 734 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:42,480 - Our Dom. - Who's Dom? 735 00:36:44,020 --> 00:36:45,320 No, not Dom. 736 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,810 I had a phone call from the CPS in Manchester. 737 00:36:50,060 --> 00:36:52,010 They're dropping the attempted murder charge 738 00:36:52,020 --> 00:36:53,540 against Nick Savage. 739 00:36:55,370 --> 00:36:57,180 I know. I know. It's... 740 00:36:58,090 --> 00:37:00,600 Unbelievable doesn't even start to cover it. 741 00:37:01,930 --> 00:37:03,470 Well, so what are they charging him with? 742 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,570 Nothing. They're say there's insufficient, 743 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:06,880 They're saying there's no evidence. 744 00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:09,230 They're saying legally there isn't a case. 745 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,450 - So he's gonna walk? - Well, 746 00:37:11,460 --> 00:37:12,890 he'll never work as a barrister again 747 00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:14,780 because of his relationship with that juror, 748 00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:17,250 and I'm assuming his marriage is stuffed, but 749 00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:20,590 - yes, that's the upshot at the minute. - He knows where I live. 750 00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:23,095 I'd be very surprised if he tried anything like that again. 751 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,500 He's got keys to my flat. 752 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,000 Change the locks. 753 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,220 Are you all right? 754 00:37:29,540 --> 00:37:31,010 Stupid question. 755 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:35,040 Do you want the less bad news? 756 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,980 I don't know. Do I? 757 00:37:40,190 --> 00:37:42,740 They picked Hibbert up. Two hours ago. 758 00:37:42,750 --> 00:37:44,320 They found his phone, 759 00:37:44,350 --> 00:37:47,100 they found a few other things that could link him to Leach. 760 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,070 Anyway, he's confessed, he's confessing. 761 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,130 He's talking right now, 762 00:37:52,140 --> 00:37:55,130 mostly about Leach about how Leach coached him, 763 00:37:55,140 --> 00:37:57,170 the things he told him he'd done. 764 00:37:57,180 --> 00:38:00,430 The point is. Rick Wallis wants us to talk to Leach again 765 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,210 to put it to him that Hibbert's making these allegations. 766 00:38:03,260 --> 00:38:06,250 They've only got us for another 24 hours. I said we would. 767 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,740 - What do you think? - Yeah. 768 00:38:11,780 --> 00:38:13,360 Dom's my brother, by the way. 769 00:38:13,420 --> 00:38:15,240 He was at my birthday thing. 770 00:38:15,340 --> 00:38:16,950 He probably didn't speak to you. 771 00:38:20,170 --> 00:38:21,750 I was thinking about that pig... 772 00:38:22,020 --> 00:38:23,320 Savage. 773 00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:26,220 You wouldn't really want endless details 774 00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:29,220 about your private life dragged through the court, would you? 775 00:38:29,780 --> 00:38:31,580 Cos you know damned well that's what'd happen, 776 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,850 if the CPS had pressed charges against him. 777 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,180 You know what I really can't get over 778 00:38:38,490 --> 00:38:40,430 is that I trusted him. 779 00:38:41,020 --> 00:38:43,950 I loved him. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. 780 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:45,980 Yeah. Well. 781 00:38:47,290 --> 00:38:49,290 Some people are very plausible, aren't they? 782 00:38:50,420 --> 00:38:52,050 Yeah but how do you know? 783 00:38:52,090 --> 00:38:53,590 How can you see through 'em? 784 00:38:54,420 --> 00:38:56,120 Like this Leach bastard. 785 00:38:57,420 --> 00:39:00,180 - I did, I fell for it. - You can't always. 786 00:39:01,860 --> 00:39:03,730 Look at the bugger I married. 787 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,330 It's not just instinct. It's experience. 788 00:39:09,820 --> 00:39:13,690 I think a large part of instinct is experience. 789 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,260 So, you know, 790 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,110 I don't think we should give up on your rosy future just yet. 791 00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:21,730 Well, I sometimes think I'm shit at this job. 792 00:39:21,940 --> 00:39:23,880 Hey! If you're fishing for compliments lady, 793 00:39:23,890 --> 00:39:25,840 you're talking to the wrong small-minded bitch. 794 00:39:28,660 --> 00:39:30,560 Why didn't I know you had a brother? 795 00:39:32,780 --> 00:39:34,520 Because he's a bit of black sheep 796 00:39:34,530 --> 00:39:37,320 in a family of black sheep so that's going some. 797 00:39:38,140 --> 00:39:39,530 What's he done? 798 00:39:39,980 --> 00:39:41,280 Dom... 799 00:39:41,290 --> 00:39:43,010 What hadn't he done? 800 00:39:44,580 --> 00:39:46,620 No, he's just staying with me at the minute 801 00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:48,180 because he's a bit down on his luck 802 00:39:48,190 --> 00:39:50,580 and because he's got nowhere else to go. 803 00:39:59,420 --> 00:40:01,430 Have you arrested Alastair Jackson? 804 00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:04,080 No, Mr. Leach. We haven't. 805 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,220 We charged a man called Philip Martin Hibbert 806 00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:09,540 with the murders of Yasmin Heaney and Jodie Winterbourne. 807 00:40:10,570 --> 00:40:11,870 Do you know him? 808 00:40:11,890 --> 00:40:13,190 Phillip Martin Hibbert? 809 00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:16,170 Yes, yes. He... was in Durham 810 00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:18,380 at the same time I was, on the same wing, briefly. Why? 811 00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:20,900 Could you describe the sort of contact you had with him 812 00:40:21,250 --> 00:40:23,180 - in Durham? - None. 813 00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:25,750 And have you had any contact with him since he was released? 814 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,330 Well, no, of course not. Why would I? 815 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:30,060 Hibbert is telling us that you and he 816 00:40:30,070 --> 00:40:32,250 became very close in Durham. 817 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,280 Well, that's not true. 818 00:40:34,420 --> 00:40:36,310 That you had an understanding, 819 00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:38,010 an agreement. 820 00:40:39,980 --> 00:40:41,280 Hibbert was an odd, 821 00:40:41,290 --> 00:40:43,120 unpleasant kind of... 822 00:40:43,180 --> 00:40:45,570 just not the sort of person I would associate with. 823 00:40:45,810 --> 00:40:47,520 That's not what he says. 824 00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:49,610 If he's implying anything about me, 825 00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:50,920 then he's... 826 00:40:52,190 --> 00:40:53,980 he's delusional. 827 00:41:03,940 --> 00:41:05,780 Do you know when Janet got stabbed? 828 00:41:08,820 --> 00:41:10,420 I fell apart. You didn't. 829 00:41:11,060 --> 00:41:14,580 I just stood there shaking, babbling. 830 00:41:15,950 --> 00:41:17,550 I'd only known her for 12 months. 831 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,280 You'd known her nearly 20 years, yet... 832 00:41:20,450 --> 00:41:22,620 it was me that was falling to bits. 833 00:41:22,650 --> 00:41:25,380 If I hadn't been there you'd have done everything I did. 834 00:41:26,780 --> 00:41:29,350 You had the luxury of falling apart 835 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,610 because you knew I wouldn't. 836 00:41:32,380 --> 00:41:34,690 You'd have coped, if you'd had to. 837 00:41:36,260 --> 00:41:38,170 I went home and cried my eyes out, 838 00:41:38,180 --> 00:41:40,270 but there was no way I was gonna do that there 839 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,470 then in front of you lot. 840 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:44,650 Plus. I remember thinking, 841 00:41:45,690 --> 00:41:47,520 if this is the last thing I ever do for Janet 842 00:41:47,530 --> 00:41:49,510 for Janet, and I hope to God it isn't, 843 00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:51,370 I'm going to do it properly. 844 00:41:51,710 --> 00:41:53,870 That's where your head would've been if it'd had to be. 845 00:41:54,620 --> 00:41:56,770 And the fact that you beat yourself up about stuff so much 846 00:41:56,780 --> 00:41:58,220 tells me how keen you are to 847 00:41:59,180 --> 00:42:01,020 learn and get things right. 848 00:42:02,060 --> 00:42:03,360 You're good. 849 00:42:04,180 --> 00:42:05,770 And one day, you'll be very good. 850 00:42:06,220 --> 00:42:07,520 All right? 851 00:42:09,370 --> 00:42:11,930 I made a really bad decision once. 852 00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:16,020 What? 853 00:42:17,220 --> 00:42:19,220 It was when Sammy was four. 854 00:42:21,110 --> 00:42:24,000 I realized way back then that Dave was mucking about 855 00:42:24,010 --> 00:42:25,480 with another woman and I... 856 00:42:28,180 --> 00:42:30,360 buried my head in the sand. 857 00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:33,390 I was in love with the man... 858 00:42:34,140 --> 00:42:36,720 I wanted him to be not the man he clearly was, 859 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,230 and I ignored it. 860 00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:41,640 For ten years. 861 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,780 Pretended it wasn't happening. 862 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,260 And if I'd had the guts 863 00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:47,460 to deal with it then 864 00:42:47,490 --> 00:42:49,480 instead of later when I had to, 865 00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:51,010 when he went off with... 866 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,050 Everything would've been so much better for Sammy, 867 00:42:54,060 --> 00:42:57,450 but for me as well because I'd have got myself organized 868 00:42:57,460 --> 00:43:00,230 so I didn't have to stop working at the Faculty. 869 00:43:00,860 --> 00:43:03,420 I was good at that job, Rachel, I loved it. 870 00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:05,390 I know I was born for it, and... 871 00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:09,550 I'd almost forgotten how much till these last few days. 872 00:43:13,460 --> 00:43:15,830 I'd forgotten how alive it made me feel. 873 00:43:33,580 --> 00:43:36,490 - Have you heard the news? - Very pretty. 874 00:43:37,820 --> 00:43:40,830 So don't you think that is like a confession? 875 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,140 Not exactly. 876 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:44,980 Someone like Leach, 877 00:43:45,580 --> 00:43:48,500 a control freak, being in prison's agony. 878 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:50,620 For all the usual reasons, but on top of that, 879 00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:52,690 you've got no control over anything. 880 00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:54,480 What time you eat, what time you sleep, 881 00:43:54,490 --> 00:43:55,960 when you speak to other people. 882 00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:58,400 He's done that because death 883 00:43:58,410 --> 00:44:00,080 is the only bit of control he had left. 884 00:44:00,090 --> 00:44:02,840 After we took away his little carefully-planned pipe dream, 885 00:44:02,850 --> 00:44:04,930 that's all. But, you know, 886 00:44:05,550 --> 00:44:06,850 who cares? 887 00:44:08,660 --> 00:44:09,960 Well done. 68084

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