All language subtitles for MASTERCLASS_TIM TAN_1

And Moonji is going to give us an
interview with Tim.

So let's go.

You too.

Thank you so much for joining.

Thank you so much for having me moonji

yeah. You are very famous within the producers

world and everybody is so hyped to meet
you yeah.

So I'm just gonna start with some basic
and rather generic interview questions

for you to begin yeah so just please go
ahead and introduce yourself yeah.

Hi, I am Tim.

I actually met Moonji back really, really

early in this process.

Like Muji have known like MUJI and I have

known each other for a little while.

It's probably what was it would have

been. Maybe iconic for a spa.

So that was like three three years ago
was it two and a half years ago?

I think 3 three years ago from when you
had the song, like when we first started,

like, sharing, sharing work?
Yeah, yeah.

Which was again like introduced through
like another friend of ours and like,

yeah, it's just a whole bunch of
introductions with everyone.

So this is the perfect scenario.

So how did you start your musical journey

and how did you get into making music for
KPOP?

Ultimately, we were just actually talking
about that in our little breakout room.

But like, I think, yeah, musical journey
for me started like my my parents were

like, really loved music, but my dad had
grown up and like.

I guess like your sixties and seventies
sort of like rock phase.

So like that's I guess where it started
when I was really young.

And as I got older, it sort of turned
into like like when I was a teenager it

was like Green Day and like Fall Out Boy
and then to even like sort of like

heavier stuff in the outskirts of that
sort of scope of genres as well.

And then when I was like 18 started.

I guess like appreciating pop a lot more

and then started making pop music for the
next like 3 or so years and like moved to

because I'm from Perth in Australia, but
then I moved to Sydney like I'd be like

five years ago now.

So I moved to Sydney 1st and at the time

of making pop it was like almost what I
fully enjoyed doing but there was there's

certain limits I think at the moment with
like.

I guess like Western western pop at the
moment.

So as soon as I as soon as I properly
found K pop and and and sort of other

artists around, sort of your main ones at
the time was sort of when I started to

go, oh, this is actually something where
I can create pop music, but in ways that

are far more exciting for me.

I also have like like I've always grown

up with like a really small really small
attention span, so like.

Creating music for K Pop was always a lot
more appealing to me.

Like as soon as I discovered it, yeah.

And then from there just yeah.

The the rest of it sort of just like
disperses.

But it's it's it's so much of sort of
like creating and being like trying to be

as self aware as you can with what you're
creating and sort of like what areas to

work on and stuff like that and just
finding the right people like I think.

The most important thing for me so far
that has been there from the beginning

and hasn't changed at all is people's
energy is really important.

So if you're collaborating with someone
or you're having a conversation with

someone about working together in any
capacity, I always find that their energy

and their your gut feeling about their
like personality is really, really

important to that, if it makes any sense.

Yeah, definitely.

I can totally relate to that.

And it's, it's really amazing when like

the producers like once they find the
right click with like certain people that

they work with, the synergy that they
create is just amazing.

And yeah, it was, it was amazing to see
you create those synergies with a lot of

the writers that, you know, I've been
working with too.

So yeah, it was great to see that.

It's so important the energies just

matching together.
It's just really, really that genuine

energy that when you have with that
person, it's just really great, always a

great outcome in that, absolutely.

And if you think like we're all, I'm sure

doing this because we really enjoy it, so
finding that.

Energy is so important to continue
enjoying it yeah being and having fun

together, I think it's so important too.

And so you've had great success in

releasing a lot of great music these past
few years and in recent years a lot of

them were singles.

So do you see any significant changes in

the trend and what the labels that you
work with are?

Are looking for or what do you think the
trend is currently going for in your in

your standards?
It's interesting because I think what I

think what's really exciting and I don't
know if like this is going too far into

like other things or not, but I think tik
tok has been a huge switch up for the

last couple of years obviously post COVID
and I think tik tok but not in the sense

that tik tok music will dictate.

Music, but in the sense that because it's

because it's such a how you say it, like
an unfiltered platform, we're seeing a

lot of non-english speaking music cut
through and that's even outside of K pop,

right?
Like if you look at the last like couple

of years, do you have people like Rosalie
and like bad Bunny and stuff like that

completely dominating side by side with
artists like new jeans and stuff like

that coming through.

So I think what's really exciting is that

I think.

Pop music and like the world is kind of

changing and it's going to be like
appreciating more and more things from

sort of like other countries and
non-english speaking languages in I guess

a more universal way.

But I think that what that will then do

to tie back into sort of like K pop
trends.

I think K pop in the last two years have
always been quite boundary pushing.

So I actually think that gap will be like
become even deeper, like it'll be even

more about attempting to create something
in which people haven't heard yet.

And that doesn't necessarily mean like
creating a new genre or anything in that

way, but sort of being able to like
everyone here would like different

artists and different styles of music.

And I think there's, there's.

There's something really special and
exciting about being able to incorporate

small portions of that into what you do.

Like I always like a lot of my

instinctual things to do whilst I'm
creating is just like just random things

that I know that I would enjoy because I
listen to this artist that I enjoy, if

that makes any sense.

So I think, yeah, it's like putting your

own personality into it actually makes
sense for the future trend because that's

going to set.

That song apart from say something that

someone else will create entirely yeah so
like I I'm also like I'm probably not the

right person to ask with trends because
I'm also like a non believer in trying to

chase trends.

Like I'm just kind of like if everything

that you do feels different to you than
what you did two days ago, then that's

amazing. Like that's the the most important thing

because I I would I would personally get
super bored if I like worked.

On something on Monday and then on the
Tuesday, I work on the same thing.

Whereas like I love that freedom,
especially in Kpop where you can get away

with most things so long as you dress it
a certain way that's gonna be suitable

for like choreography and stuff like
that.

Yeah, yeah, I totally resonate with that
because last time on our last master

class, we were talking about trends.

And how it's really going more universal

and Kpop is going more global than ever
before because I think like the trends

are changing because like a lot of
cultures like as you said like

non-english music is breaking it through
the industry more and more and I think

we're just.
Sharing a lot of the aspects of like the

Western music, but then the western side
has also begun to get more influence with

Asian music as well.

So it's it's great that you brought that

up and I love that you said that you
don't really tie yourself into likes

being stuck into the trends because that
was one of the encouragements that we

gave to our UMC members that you know,
the trends.

It will always be there and there will
always be genres that will never die in

terms of trend, like hip hop.

But just being able to create something

that will leave the next trend is going
to be really, really more important.

And you know, just having fun and being
authentic in your music is the most

important. And I'm so happy to see you doing the

same. But you know, you're also leading the

KPOP scene right here, so.

That's that's amazing advice and I'm so

happy that you are giving out the exact
testimony that we emphasized about.

Yeah, can I ask you, I, I totally agree
with you in terms of the trend and about

like your personal way of making music
has to be inspiring to you, has to be

different. Did you start like that?

Were you always like, you know what?
I'm just going to do my own thing you

know how so how was that process because
I think a lot of us in it's like we're

we're in the very beginning stage of you
know of learning.

So what what advice would you give to
people who are like oh, I don't know what

the trend is but I'm not sure if I should
do the trend because all these people are

telling me not to do the trend because I
I said the same thing but it's some.

In some level you do have to kind of know
the trend or how kpop sounds like and all

that like yeah that's a that's a
interesting question cuz I think I was I

think I semi explained in the breakout
room that I think my transition into Kpop

was like actually relatively jarring in
the sense that like.

I was growing up, like playing in rock
bands and stuff like that.

And then I started creating pop music
with since and then that was for the

first two years, like extremely awkward
because I was so used to hear his drums,

guitar and bass.

And like in very, like specific ways that

when I first started creating even just
normal like pop music, it was like kind

of like if pop music was created by a
dude who played in a rock band sort of

thing. And then the next step further, once I

did kind of get the hang of the pop thing
like transitioning into sort of like KPOP

was again different because there's just
so many adjustments that you have to

make. So I would say like there's definitely an

element of your sort of journey that will
be I guess like what I would consider

upskilling like for example, like you
were like to to properly attribute

yourself to be able to sort of.

Exceed boundaries.

You kind of have to know how to create
the boundary in the 1st place.

Does that make sense?
So, so like, there's definitely a really,

really important part of the journey,
just creating something that you had

intended to create, like to give it.

Like say say, say you came from a

background and you felt like trap music
wasn't something that was in your comfort

zone. Or like trap music the way that it exists

in K pop sort of thing.

So you wanted to work on that and being

able to sort of like focus in on that and
I guess achieving that checkpoint for

yourself. So you know, OK, so this is this element

done so that you can then move on to the
next thing that you're working on and

slowly work on these different areas as a
producer.

Because I think especially as a kpop
producer, you kind like outside of

country music, you kind of have to be
able to do everything like even.

Even like like what blew my mind was when
I was working on the one of the hyphen

songs like how relevant I guess like
guitar was for the creation of that song

like which is just like a very like.

I would never would have thought about

that prior, like guitars being important
to K Pop sort of thing.

But yeah, pretty much you have to be able
to sort of create most genres.

And be comfortable with most genres so
you can kind of put them all together in

this like bubble of music.

Like I think K pop is so much harder to

make and perfect.

Yeah, because a lot of people, you know

they, they have been using genres
together.

But smoothing it out especially for like
performance based music is it's a big

challenge yeah yeah no, absolutely.

Yeah, it's a definitely.

Yeah, a lot of practice and
experimentation definitely comes into

that as well.

But it's also, again like everyone

instinctually will enjoy certain things.

So like there's absolutely nothing wrong

with sort of sticking to what you really
enjoy because that's where you're like.

It's kind of like when I think back to
school, like the subjects that I

preferred I would naturally.

Put like 200 % more effort into sort of

thing. So like strengthening those areas really

well is a really good starting point
because you at least have that to work

off because it can be a wild journey to
just try and straight away do all genres.

Yeah, it's like trying to learn all
languages in the world at once.

It would just be pretty tough.

Yeah, yeah, challenge is real.

I have one last question for you and then
we'll be off to hearing your session.

So we've been telling our UMC members on
their master classes that, you know, even

if you weren't a top liner or like a
songwriter, it's really important.

To be able to envision a clear direction
of a track as if you are also the

songwriter and the top liner, and since
you are also the top liner, you are also

songwriter and the top liner.

So what advice, or maybe like your own

experience, can you share about how to
build up a track by envisioning what kind

of top lines or song it would after all
you know, become or?

What kind of inspirations you get when
you try to build a track on envisioning a

full song?
Yeah, well, there's different approaches.

That's a really good question actually,
because there's definitely a system in my

head, but I've never like, put that
system into words before.

But like, I'll try.

So yeah, depending on.

What your, I guess like music theory
background is in terms of like how much

awareness of I guess like scribed music
you have sort of thing.

The way that I usually approach it is
that different groups have different

vocal ranges.
So like different.

Like for example if I'm working on
something for say like a boy group whose

top note that they can sort of hit is
between E to F.

Finding something like starting off in a
key in which either the tonic note or

like your third or fifth hits, those sort
of like sweet spots are really helpful

because what what will tend to happen if
you sort of if you just go from scratch.

There's usually like a four like a four
key like difficulty range that like for

me as a top liner where if I received
like a boy Group One and it's like.

Say like a flat minor even like that
would be fairly challenging for me

because it's in a weirdly awkward spot to
find like sweet spots for so like, and

that's just like honestly, even without
the theory.

So This is why I wanted to bring that up,
because even without the theory, we all

create things obviously for mini and from
like keyboards in front of us or guitars,

whichever respective instruments are.

If you just go and listen to not even

just the specific artists that you're
catering to, but other other other

artists who have similar vocal ranges and
see and just listen to like what key the

song's in and then also find out the
relationship in like the chorus notes

there to give you an example, like like
there'll be some mid tempo songs that

won't require you to belt the top end of
the key, right?

So that makes that key.

Like a different thing to think about

than say like a like a full dance track
where the the vocals are really high, so

you kind of just have to think about and
get used to.

And again, this is like the fun part,
right?

Because you get to just like listen to
music and be like, oh, all of like these

three songs are in this key and these
three songs are in this key.

And these are the vocal relationships
with the keys, if that makes sense.

Because the moment you understand that
you're when you do pass it on to a top

liner. You're at least giving them tracks with

like I guess the right cordal structures
to give them the sweet spots to help them

benefit your track.

Because at the end of the day, the point

of those collaborations is having a top
liner sort of bring your track to life

and and having your track bring the
eventual top line to life as well.

Like that's kind of like the point of
that back and forth relationship.

That's amazing advice.

That is so practical, yeah.

And so it would always, you always, you
usually work on based on like a specific

target, right, because of the leads that
you receive.

And just having that specific target and
listening through their release music and

what keys the artists are comfortable in,
that becomes a really good motivation and

a starting point for you, right?
Absolutely yeah, there's always.

Again, like it's definitely gotten to a
point where like at the moment for me

anyway, like I tend to like when when
leads come in, like I tend to just like

look at the lead and find what the common
what what what things in common all the

different reference songs have and find.

I guess almost like my own references

where I'm like, oh, this actually would
be really cool for this sort of thing as

opposed because I'm like.

Lead culture is interesting because lead

culture is like if if the label is
sending out a lead of three songs for

that artist, they're most likely going to
receive 500 versions of these three songs

so so I guess like again this is kind of
goes into the personality thing that I

was mentioning before like where if
you're able to implement your musical

tastes into hybrid being what the lead is
asking for, that's really, really helpful

because it automatically sort of.

Divides what you create with, I guess

what they'll likely be sent.

But always when creating there is a

target artist, so that's where sort of
like the keys and stuff like that come

from. That's a really good advice, amazing

advice really honestly.

Like even before, like even before

actually starting a session, like, I'll
just sit there for like at least an hour

just listening to.

Songs and putting them into a little

playlist that are like similar to the
references that I think, because I think

the references are always trying to ask
you for something.

You just gotta figure out what that like
what it is that they're actually looking

for based on what they've given you.

That is the main, the fun part because

yeah, I mean I work with a lot of writers
and.

Just deciphering the leads is really
actually difficult and it is because I

think it's more because of like a it's
like a cultural issue too.

So there is this specific, it's not even
a genre, but there's this mood that like

this culture the the Korean culture
really likes and it's called, it's just

an example, but it's called like
Tongyang.

And, you know, there is just no one word
in English that can fully describe the

essence of this meaning.

And it's it's basically if you turn it

into English, it's gonna be refreshing.

But it's not just refreshing.

It's like pure refreshing.

Yeah, it, it's so it has the.

It's a mix of like coolness, pure,
energetic, clean.

It's like paradise.

And you know it's just it's just like a

mix of all these and and that's when you
put in the word fresh but that's when the

word fresh kind of adds to that essence
of like that pure clean, energetic,

powerful. But it needs to be like really angelic

almost and but it needs to sound cool at
the same time.

So there's this like this vibe this is
one word.

And it they use it for a lot of the
concepts for a lot of the boy groups

especially in like the summertime and and
it's it's when they put that word in the

leads like Tonya and then if we if the
the translators have translated into we

want a refreshing pop it's just doesn't
through in the in the lead deciphery for

foreign writers it's so hard for them to
get the the to grass the essence of it

so. I had once like sent our trainee members

when they were actually working on that
kind of genre.

I sent them a 2 hour playlist on YouTube
that fully just has that Tony Yang songs

in it like for two hours.

And I had them listen to every single

song before they work on the the song on
top lining.

So it's actually a really, really great
advice and a really, really good method

before you guys start working on a track
based on just.

One or two reference songs.

So whenever we post up on the song

challenges, we always emphasize, don't
ever just start your song with like a

like a similar vibe of the first
reference song that's that's listed on

the references.
It's just that's just not what the labels

want and just listening to your
perspective of like really.

Merging yourself into the artist music
and all the reference musics, reference

musics just just almost like like
spreading out like a spider web like you

is is not just what it's here but you see
like what's other relevant sounds are you

know can work together and to adapt that
and then make it into your own.

Just really great advice that I think the
UFC members really needed to hear.

So thank you.

Yeah, thank you absolutely i think like a

legitimate example, actually like a
practical example to give you guys an

example of sort of I guess this in
practice.

There was a lead in February that was
asking for like my hair by Ariana Grande.

And like a yeah, a song by this artist
named Hope Tyler, who's a UK r and b,

artists really, really cool.

And I think like one more reference and

sort of, well, that's what they were
asking for.

And then by I guess, like assessing that
and and figuring out what the common

denominators are in those songs.

I was like, well then if I, if I like put

into a playlist sort of like kill Bill by
scissor.

I like you by post Malone and ain't shit
by doja cat.

I'm somewhere in the ballpark, but it's
like something else.

It's not the same as the lead, and
they're either gonna like that or they're

not gonna like that.

But it means that you haven't sent them

one of the other 500 carbon copies of my
hair by Ariana Grande, like.

And yeah, you just gotta figure out what
it is that you're like, even you wanna

make out of out of that lead, if that
makes sense.

That's amazing.

Thank you, Tim.

That was a great interview time and I
think we can move on to your session now

yay awesome yeah introduce the song that
you'll be showcasing and you can go ahead

and screen share.

Yeah, awesome.

So I ended up running with, actually
ended up running with Cheshire, so yay, I

thought that would be.

Probably the one that makes the most

sense. Do I have to?

No, I don't have to click share sound, do
I?

No, I think everybody knows that.

So can you see everything?

Yes yes lovely.

So Papi asked me about this before he

asked me if everything I work on is
disorganized and.

Like I said, I said to both Moonjie and
puppy that usually no like everything

else in my house is a complete atrocity.

But like you just there's only so many

times you can create a song and not know
where anything is before you start to

organize things.
So I guess like the first thing is I'll

collapse all of this right?
And essentially so I have a template that

will start with.

These here if I ever need to use them,

which I never use them.

They're just nice colors to look at now,

but there's a drum folder always on Q
base, a base folder, instruments folder,

effects folder, and a vocal folder.

The vocal folder by default has the

arrangement the way that my brain has
processed them, that's you don't

necessarily have to do that, but this is
super easy because it means that anytime

I'm loading anything in like a like an
effect sample or a drum sample, it just

goes straight into the folder.

Therefore slightly already organized and

color-coded if that makes any sense.

And then the bass and instruments folder

usually has like 3 to 4 bass MIDI tracks
with like an eight oh eight going like a

more serum sort of bass.

And then one of like the Arturia basses.

And then the instruments folder just has
20 like blank MIDI tracks.

So that I can sort of get in there, yeah?
wow. Yeah, yeah.

Could you?
We would love to hear the, the track

first maybe maybe up to like first course
and then if you could like break it down

and tell us like how you started the idea
and stuff, that would be great.

Yeah, absolutely, I will.

Do you want it with vocals or without

vocals?
With vocals would be great awesome.

Oh my gosh, guys, sorry.

You get to listen to this.

This is this is a huge privilege wow
thank you for doing this.

Not gonna lie, the MVP for this, for this
demo is actually one of the

collaborators, Josephine, who had sent
through this vocal stem for I guess the

pretty much the hawk of the song is still
my favorite thing in the world.

Like, she's like, like there's just so
much personality and what she had done.

Yeah, which is so cool wow so that was
that was an example.

That was like a no that was local
processing.

Yeah, that was Josephine wow she's just,
I don't know yeah she's just got like a

little bit of distortion in the lower
layers, but it's pretty.

It's pretty just her.

Like there's another one down here that

I'll. Somewhere, yeah, here.

Then I'll show you later as well.

That is just wild.

Like, yeah.

So her personality really cuts through

there, so I'll play it.

Don't ever change me.

I don't wait.

No, don't.

I don't need safety.

Answer my own bait.

Torture you for fun.

And I ain't got a safe place.

I'll be howling.

I feel so powerful in my body.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My world.

That's where I want to be called cash.

Shaking up my mind, you know.

Oh, wait, hold on.

Are you guys hearing this?

Like a three?
Yeah so that's how that song goes.

It's all heard it, right?
Everybody's OK good.

Ok. I got scared there.

Second now cuz some people didn't get

listened to.
Link, all right?

No but but people heard it yeah i think
everybody heard it right yeah.

Yeah, yeah wow so surprise.

I see the name Taylor Parks in the focus

and I love her music so wow.

I didn't know she participated well

actually. So that's this is what.

So I've got this these two tracks here
disabled for the time being because I'd

like to show that's probably like one.

I'm like if if I if if everyone can walk

away with this like piece of knowledge by
the end of the session that I'm I'm very

very happy.
But I I'll wait.

I'll wait for that.

That'll come in a second because this I

think, yeah, that that's going to again
double down on like how important your

personality is.
Like, I think like there's going to be a

plethora of knowledge for everyone to
create music at the end of the day.

And I think all of you are going to be
able to do that with however much time

you put into it sort of thing.

But the one thing that no one can sort of

put into you is yourself, like, very
strange concept to think about, but like.

How your instincts operate and sort of
like the decision making process that you

make is, is always going to just be you
that that's always going to be like your

biggest advantage if that makes any
sense.

So I'll just go through I guess like
little bit by little bit of this.

So the session got drums, bass
instruments, affects all the vocals,

anything. Production wise in Gray is what I had

imported from because there was
additional production on this song from

Justin Reinstein, who's amazing and he
absolutely killed it.

So anything that's actually grayed out in
the instruments related section is is all

from Justin.

So I have him to thank for that stuff

yeah how, what would you like to see
first?

Can you please share how you started the
idea how how?

What was it that started the inspiration
to write this?

So the way that?
Honestly, the way the song would have

started. I wonder if I've deleted those things or

if I kept let me just re import a couple
of the less positive things about this.

Again, I don't know.

I don't know how many of you use Cubase,

but Cubase is.

Amazing for this stuff.

That's right.

It's gonna be Elijah.

Let's convert, bro.

We'll be there.

Yeah, absolutely.

What's Elijah currently on?

All right, I'm one of, like, the three
people in the world who use Reaper.

All right.

Q Best is a good transition point from

Reaper, actually.
No, it's QAS is a good transition point

for anyone.
If anyone's in for a new door, it's got

to be QAS yeah so essentially I yeah, I
don't think I'll be able to find that

thing because I think I've completely,
like, it's somewhere in the cloud now.

But what I would have started with there
was a, I think one piano track that I had

then copied the midis over to create like
a left hand, right hand only because

there's a.
A little bit of a bounce, I guess to the

part. So I wanted to be able to separate, I

guess like volume wise, specifically what
they were doing.

So I'll just mute the ones that are in
the song.

So you started with a piano idea yeah so
this actually started off the song.

It's funny because I think at the end of
the day.

Like different songs require different
treatment of the elements that are there,

right?
Like for example if you're working on

something for say NCT working without the
central, sort of like the central like

grabby hook thing.

Like for example like the wisp of the

flute. In sticker sort of thing, or like working

with that, without that stuff it's really
hard to create an NCT song.

So in terms of like order, if you're
working on something like that, finding

that effective thing that runs I guess
through most of the song is super, super

important. Whereas with stuff like itsy and stuff

like twice and artists like like that, I
always find it's easier to find.

A mood and sort of like what your chords
are doing and what's voicing your chords

in this specific song first.

Like something more melodic or chordy,

right?
Yeah, something to give you like like the

harmony of your song, I guess.

I hope this isn't loud, but that's jyp's

fault. He's just, he's just too into that stuff.

He just loves his melodies yeah yeah so
I've got like a left hand piano that's

doing if I just not like that and go
through.

Sorry, that opens in the other window of
my computer.

Let me drag that across.

There you go.

So this is like.

So realistically the so they're

essentially doing like one piano part,
but like having the ability to separate

them specifically to sort of get the
right balance of of bounce was really

handy for this one in particular.

So it's together they're just.

Yeah, so that's like the piano part, the
main riff one.

It's really interesting because
apparently I didn't want to do it with

the right hand, and I've only just
noticed it now.

Oh no, there we go.

So I always like to do things like this,

right?
Like most people playing piano are going

to hit the keys at a different time, and
it's really funny.

Even like the more you listen to piano
parts in songs and learning, I guess how

pianos are played, sort of thing helps
sort of deliver something that is less

mechanical, which is really important.

I think. Again, like K Pop is, is, is, is

a genre full of like, liveliness and full
of energy and sort of being able to like

articulate things in that way.

It's really.

It takes a little while cuz I don't like
doing there's like an automated way that

you can do it in most doors but it
doesn't.

So you didn't play it you you.

No I can't play piano.

I grew up playing guitar and guitars.

My like instrument.

No, I was gonna say you you sound like a
piano player the way you played it.

The way you've like placed those nose.

But like wow, that's crazy.

No I I literally like I can I can play
you chords on a piano.

If you ask for the chord and I have one
second to think about it.

I can't play a part sort of thing.

Definitely know the core progressions

like because of your guitar playing right
yeah so and and and with the piano side

like I know my way around the keyboard,
but I can't.

I don't have the same what is it it's
like like for guitar for me at this point

is like a reflex.

Like yeah there's no thought that's going

into it that's i'm so far away from that
with piano.

But one day.

One day.

So because I don't play, my job is
extremely hard because I have to actually

create these discrepancies.

But if you don't play piano, then I would

say it's worth creating these
discrepancies and just sort of, I guess,

like learning.
Because ballads, you're going to want to

have more separation.

And then with pop songs you're going to

want to have like less separation and
stuff like that and finding creative ways

of doing that as well.

What makes it any piano that you need?

Just let me know.

I'm totally down bro.

I'm glad.

I'm glad I know that cuz that would save

me. That would save me so much time.

And then like that piano also exists
through the pre chorus.

Ending on the diminished chord that leads
into like the sixth minor chord of

whatever the chorus is.

It's like a habit that I need to start

getting out of.

I just I I got I've got myself in that

habit a lot and I and it's so hard to
want to hear anything else in the pre

chorus so true like the altered secondary
dominant 5 right.

Yeah exactly into the one yeah exactly
yeah going into yeah going into your one

or or your six depending on how you
that's the other thing like my the way

that I think about key centers now is so
broken because everything is major to me

in the sense that like if I like.

If I like, I don't work in the minor key

center in the circle of this.

Like I work in in major in the sense that

like say if the songs in C major, it's a
minor to me because it's in the six, if

that makes sense.

So I'm always thinking like the six is

your resolve, which is very, very broken.

Don't let it get to that point.

But then yeah.

And then it kind of just, yeah, kind of

just continues doing its thing.

In terms what else would be interesting

in this, you know, I would love to see
how you've layered different sounds to

that piano.
Like you know all the other instruments

that you you've filled with like the bass
and the drums in the verse section yeah

well this is, this is a really unique
scenario I think because there's not a

lot of.
Like that piano carries a lot of what's

going on.
And then at different stages, different

things got added to, sort of like, this
is again one of my favorite things,

right?
So Josephine had a vocal stack here in

the second verse that I'll mute.

But it kind of goes like this, like a

two, like a three.

I've got them all.

Look at me.

I feel so free.

You don't know what I need.

You only find a girl like me so.

Okay, actually that's probably a good
point to note.

I like playing around with I think.

I think something that I had learned

maybe like three years ago that I've
really tried to sort of like really

embody is some like finding a way to
remove things is a lot easier than

finding a way to add.

Sorry, is a lot better than trying to.

Add things all the time.

So like if you start off with say that's

why I I like to start with choruses
because I guess when you when you sort of

start with your destination you can work
backwards from there as opposed to

starting with like a verse that's here
and then having to incrementally try and

top it each time.

So like for example this second verse is

literally it starts off with the eight oh
eight the, hook sample and the just the

left hand of the piano.

So it's like, oh God damn, like a two.

Like a three.

I've got them all.

Look at me.

I feel so free.

You don't know what I need.

And then that way, like different things

can come in and out, sort of cute things.

So it's just like, it's literally just

that. It's very minimal, but it's so full.

And the left hand comes back in.

But my favorite part of this section is,

so Josephine had sent through this like,
vocal thing and you'll feel it now the

second time around wow.

And it's just, it's just stuff like that

where with the original track that was
never, that was never there.

And then like your collaborator sends you
this ridiculous stack of vocals and

you're like, cool, that's like half the
job done.

It's like when you have one of those
sections, it's like.

You don't want to add too many
instruments, you know you want those

vocals to shine, absolutely.

And honestly, like honestly, one of my

advice is to anyone in here who might not
sing or or might not be a top liner

themselves. Befriend people who sing.

Because I think probably the the biggest
learning curve for most producers for

KPOP specifically and probably like the
most.

Unforgiving part of the journey is is
recording vocals and being able to

present the vocals in a way that sounds
like the song's done.

I know that in a lot of Western my
experience with like like American Music

and and like Australian music and stuff
like that.

In terms of the demo creating process,
there's always this like demo phase in in

the Western world where it's like, oh,
here's the song demo and here are the

demo vocals and all this sort of stuff.

Demos in Korea are like this is the

finished song.
Please send it to me sort of thing like

it's a very different yeah.

And it's really it's it's the hardest

part because it makes everything takes so
much longer and and and consume so much

more of your energy.

But it's just something to get used to

because it's at the moment you're relying
on like am I yelling?

I'm i'm really not used to headphones no
no no.

Your voice sounds great right now.

So yeah, the moment you're relying on

like an A and R's like imagination,
you're doing yourself like a disservice.

So like if you sing great, record
yourself as much as you can and sort of

learn to to work with vocals as much as
you can.

If you don't sing, find singer friends
who will like to come to the studio and

record vocal ideas for you because it's
like it's really handy and it's I think

for for producers who don't sing, it's
it's hard to get that practice in.

Again, I was like lucky because like I
was in a band and I I got into recording

music by recording my band.

And like, that was the whole point of it

at the start of the journey.

But I know that, yeah, from Piers and

stuff like that.

I think everyone wishes they had that

singing friend that you can almost turn
on like a plugin yeah so stuff like that.

Because the the collaboration part is
like Super, Super, super important.

Drum wise, like it's actually, which is
really funny because drum is so simple,

but it's so simple yeah and it's not,
this is not a common thing.

So I'm, I do apologize in the sense that
it's probably a more minimal session than

usual. Is that my?

Some songs started playing on my Spotify.

I have no idea how or why.

I'm so sorry.

Yeah, so this, this, this arrangement is

like fairly straightforward, but there's
like the main kick drum.

So I've got this anything drum wise that
I have for for the kick that has a D next

to it.

In my head it's just a side chain track

so it's literally just like a zeroed out.

Sending to other instruments to create

space, which I'll get to in a second as
well.

Interesting, yeah.

But there's basically a kick drum, which

is super foreign to me now.

Like, I don't know what the last song I

would have worked on that would have had
that, because this demo was made March

2022 March last year.

So even this for me is like a trip back

into memory lane of sorts.

Pre Chorus is interesting because Justin

added some like drum rolls that were
really cool, so I'd remove some stuff to

fit space in again.

Try to keep in check whilst you're adding

elements to appropriately.

Also remove elements to let the things

you're adding really come to life because
there's this like marching drum thing

that like Justin Reinstein had sent my
way.

Which in context to the rest of the song
felt really cool.

So I sort of like removed all the other
stuff from the the pre chorus to make

space with that.

Because if not, yeah, it's just that rim

shot wow and then like.

There's stuff here as well, so it's just

archerious keys sort of backing out the
piano by this time.

So they sort of work really well together
actually.

That's the huge thing that was in there
as well, these plucks, you know, it seems

like you really like, or at least for
this song at least the the snare sounds

really like organic, like authentic
sounding samples instead of like hard

hitting ones yeah.

Is that like one of your kind of like

trademark thing or is it just something
that you felt for this song?

I think like I think in in nine months
time you'll you'll find out.

But like I think it's getting so much
worse.

Like I keep, I keep going to like
different like cash.

So Cashmere has a lot of a lot of samples
and I would recommend is actually going

through samples that aren't snares and
making them stare sonically.

Yeah, so like precautions and yeah it's
become this like weird.

Bad addiction thing where it's like
literally finding like different, like

whether it be like tribal hits or like
wood blocks, cowbells, like in the last I

would say two months alone.

There's some like weird things that now

take place as stares.

For me like this is fairly tame, but like

I'll show you like I guess what you would
have been referring to.

That's a great idea.

Yeah, there's this.

So there's so much, because a lot of them
flam as well, right?

So you get like 2 transients and you get
that like nice, like almost like cluck,

sort of like thing that you wouldn't
normally get out of, just like a normal

stare unless you flam the snare.

But yeah, like this one's just like a rim

shot. And then the rest of it stacks in.

That's also probably what you're talking
about, where that actually sounds like

the top of it.

That's the one really.

Like, yeah.

So it's literally just that yeah.

But yeah, no, this is fairly like snarry
for.

Yeah, the last two months have been wild
where it's like, I've just found a whole

bunch of just like, other objects that
aren't snares.

That I've just decided that now, snares,
that is a really good idea because, like,

you're always gonna come up with
something really different.

It's not gonna sound like snare, you
know, because a lot of times, like, I

spent so much time trying to make a
unique snare sound or trying to find a

unique snare sound.

And then you're like, play it after like

12 hours and like, oh, it's not that
unique.

It's still just the snare, you know?
Well, exactly like.

There's like, I think we've gotten to a
point now where snares are always going

to be snares and you'll always have A use
for snares like you'll always be able to

use them.
So anything like hip hoppy or anything

like super track sounding or anything
that feels experimental, not using a

snare automatically creates that divide
between that and yeah it's it's fun to

use that tip.

That's yeah, that's really valuable tip.

And then there's this one.

Yeah, cool.

So the main base in the chorus actually
is a mixture of, which would have been, I

would recommend arturia a lot because
arturia gives you a lot of because I

think like serum and stuff like that is a
really amazing for very specific things.

But there's a it's very easy to end up.

Being like really, really electronic the

whole time sort of thing, whereas a lot
of the arturia stuff gives you a really

diverse range of I guess like warmer
sounding analog, yeah, soft sense and

then so with the arturia stuff you're
able to sort of get like a bit more of a

broken timber.
Like you can you can literally hear the

chorus over the ground noise from it's
like noise simulation man.

I used to use arteria like 10 years ago
and I stopped using it.

But wow, I would I would revisit dude
like totally like most of my bases now

are coming out of the mini in arteria
that or like if you for anyone who uses

uad, uad have a really really good mini
one as well which.

Which one do you like to use for bass in
arterial?

Cuz there's a whole collection of the
different sin sounds.

The, the one I most commonly use out of
arterial for bass at the moment is the

the mini, which is kind of like it's the
the the mood.

Yeah yeah yeah simulation and there's a
lot like I'll show you this one.

Actually I keep forgetting that the midis
are still here, so let me.

Open and solo that.

That's loud.

That means yeah let's not do that to
everyone.

Yeah, so essentially I can't actually use
my shortcuts so I never use shortcuts.

So I would heavily recommend using
shortcuts and learning your shortcuts cuz

it makes life a lot easier.

I put in number pads for me.

Oh, that's super one through 8.

That's super.

Really helpful.

I'm just gonna move this zoomy thing over

here because I can't actually see my
toolbar at all.

There we go.

That's better.

All right.

So that's essentially that synth.

Oh, you tweaked quite a bit.

So this was actually the Juno.

So I was wrong yeah.

Where's the Juno gone?

Sorry i tried to do this thing where I
could have the zoom screen open at the

same time as the Cubase screen, but this
it's just causing a whole bunch of

problems rather than helping anything.

Yeah, there we go.

So this is what this is, a habit that I'm
into.

I'm not sure if it's actually helpful or
not, or if it's not helpful at all, but

like. Every time I am like, I play around with

a preset of some sort and create like I
guess like a new sound out of it.

I'll always do a save as and put TT next
to it.

That's that's my name.

And that way I could like I can always

find things that I've used before and
then further alter them if I need, but it

just makes it really easy.

But yeah, that's like basically that

sound. Tt Sound Bank, that's the one we need.

So that essentially turned into this
right.

Which has a bunch of Q based distortion
on it.

But the reason being actually is yeah
this is I'm just gonna if you give me a

SEC I'm just gonna switch so that
everything's on one screen.

So that everyone can properly see the
plugins and stuff.

Cuz I'm getting to that point.

How many screens do you use?

Honestly I usually have the like 1 screen
going, but I've got like the external

monitor but it's just doing a bigger
version of what's already there I guess.

So in this scenario I tried to separate
them thinking that would be easier, but

now everything's just loading up on a
completely different screen.

So you'll just have to give me a moment.

Sorry, I use 4 screens.

It's definitely overkill, but I use every
single one of them yeah wow, that is

crazy. 4 screens is wild to me.

Let me.

I'm gonna do a new share of the desktop

now.