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Mickey: This week on "The Core,"
Simon Barrett,
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writer of "You're Next"
and "The Guest"
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00:01:49,196 --> 00:01:51,756
is here to tell us how he turns
the screws on his audience.
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00:01:51,807 --> 00:01:53,417
Then a criminologist tells us
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why we should fear
our own family.
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And effects master Jim Ojala
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spills the secrets
of spilling acid on my face.
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00:02:07,866 --> 00:02:09,866
From "You're Next" to
"The Guest" and "Blair Witch,"
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there are few filmmakers
that can capture the anxiety
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00:02:12,349 --> 00:02:13,789
of a Simon Barrett film.
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They start off simple --
a dinner-party,
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a heartwarming homecoming,
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00:02:17,180 --> 00:02:18,880
but something tastes off.
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You feel it rotting
in your stomach,
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00:02:20,401 --> 00:02:22,361
and just when you can't
bear it any longer,
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00:02:22,403 --> 00:02:24,363
bam! Crossbow bolt to the head.
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He fills his movies
with ominous unease,
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and he has a damn
good time doing it.
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00:02:30,889 --> 00:02:32,889
Simon's here today
to talk about tension
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with a thrilling game
of Russian Roulette
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00:02:35,590 --> 00:02:39,030
with blenders.
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00:02:39,071 --> 00:02:40,991
Sir, thank you so much
for joining me today.
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-I'm so sorry. I'm being rude.
-Oh, not at all. Not at all.
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Great to see you.
Since you're the guest,
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you go ahead and choose yours
and choose one for me.
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00:02:48,646 --> 00:02:50,076
I'm going to go straight ahead,
and why don't you
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grab that one on the end there,
'cause I like
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-a little bit of space.
-So, here's how it works.
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Seven questions,
eight blender.
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00:02:55,958 --> 00:02:58,128
We stick our hand
into our chosen blenders.
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After each question, we pick
a plug from the tangled cords
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00:03:00,658 --> 00:03:02,748
and plug her right in.
The blender spins,
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00:03:02,791 --> 00:03:04,791
and if we both still have
our digits by the end of it,
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that blender's removed.
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00:03:06,316 --> 00:03:08,486
And on we go until
one of us feels very sorry
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00:03:08,536 --> 00:03:10,406
that we ever agreed
to this stupid game.
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00:03:10,451 --> 00:03:11,801
-All right.
-All right.
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00:03:11,843 --> 00:03:14,463
So let's just talk about
how you specifically,
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00:03:14,498 --> 00:03:17,018
as a writer, build tension
into your scripts.
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00:03:19,155 --> 00:03:21,375
You know, there's, I guess,
a few things that you can do
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00:03:21,418 --> 00:03:23,118
to create tension in a film.
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00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:24,289
Character investment
is important.
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You have to care
about the character.
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We don't have
character likability.
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That's partly my fault,
and I'm sorry,
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00:03:29,165 --> 00:03:33,035
but we have other things
contributing
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to kind of the suspense
of this scenario.
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00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,780
You have to establish
fairly quickly
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00:03:37,826 --> 00:03:39,826
that either the film
will surprise you
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or that bad things
are possible in this world.
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You have to set up
the stakes.
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And then, you know, score,
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obviously, that ominous
kind of tones
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and stuff that can
cue the audience
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into not feeling that
they're in a safe space.
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00:03:52,841 --> 00:03:55,801
Blocking, you know, there's a
lot of kind of cinematic tricks,
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but also surprises. You know,
any kind of escalation
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in pacing.
If the viewers feel
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00:03:59,630 --> 00:04:01,500
like the film is moving
in a certain rhythm
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00:04:01,545 --> 00:04:03,025
and they can predict it,
it's like,
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00:04:03,068 --> 00:04:04,938
"Oh, you know, like this
amount of time happens,
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00:04:04,983 --> 00:04:06,333
and then there's
a jump scare,"
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00:04:06,376 --> 00:04:08,116
they'll get used to that
in a lot of subtle ways.
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So any kind of unexpected
ramping up of tension
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or, you know,
surprise in that regard.
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Like how I'm going
to plug this in right now.
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Jesus Christ.
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-Well, uh...
-Okay.
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We lucked out on that one,
I guess.
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Okay. So, next question
that I've got for you
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on this idea
of misdirection,
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the thing that comes
to my mind first and foremost
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is the dinner scene
at "You're Next"
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where, you know, you get
to know all these characters
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but they're fighting
with one another.
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Is that very intentional
from the beginning?
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Do you try to save
the cat immediately,
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or are you more interested
in just kind of real visceral
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kind of character
natural human acts?
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00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:44,890
You know, that's
a great question,
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'cause there's tension
between characters
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and tension
between relationships,
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and then there's tension
of, like,
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a crossbow could kill you
at any time,
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or you have your hand
in a blender.
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00:04:54,381 --> 00:04:55,641
I find a combination
of the two
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tends to be
fairly interesting.
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I can watch gore
all day long,
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00:04:59,647 --> 00:05:01,257
but show me
a scene in a movie
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00:05:01,301 --> 00:05:03,351
where a character's made
socially uncomfortable
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00:05:03,390 --> 00:05:05,780
or embarrassed, and I'll be
squirming and closing my eyes.
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00:05:05,827 --> 00:05:07,047
-Right.
-I can't take it.
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00:05:07,089 --> 00:05:08,659
So with that scene
in particular,
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00:05:08,699 --> 00:05:10,439
I was trying to get a
combination of those two things.
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It's like, let's show
a family dynamic
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that's engaging
in these different ways.
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Let's not waste the audience's
time with them.
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00:05:17,055 --> 00:05:19,745
Let's try to get them across
in a funny, quick way,
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00:05:19,797 --> 00:05:21,927
and then
from that point on,
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when the crossbows are flying
through the windows,
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we'll kind of know who's who
and what they stand for.
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I have a bit of comedic
license, you know,
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when you're trying
to do something that's funny.
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So I utilized it,
and I was like,
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"These characters
are ridiculous,
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and you'll know who they are
in a few sentences."
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00:05:34,812 --> 00:05:36,732
Right. I want to expand
on comedic license,
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00:05:36,771 --> 00:05:38,381
but I feel like we have
to do one of these,
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so get rocking and rolling.
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-That's the game.
-Okay.
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00:05:50,175 --> 00:05:51,605
Comedy and horror
are interesting,
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and they're both
about timing.
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00:05:53,222 --> 00:05:55,492
And so what draws you
to this idea
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of making something
really terrifying or violent
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but also kind of funny
and awkward at the same time?
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00:06:00,447 --> 00:06:03,007
I think if a film
is relentlessly
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just trying to be scary,
it actually becomes,
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-in a certain way, oppressive.
-Mm-hmm.
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00:06:06,366 --> 00:06:09,236
And I, myself,
am not a funny person.
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00:06:09,281 --> 00:06:10,941
I don't enjoy humor.
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00:06:10,979 --> 00:06:14,419
My main claim to fame is,
I've never laughed or smiled.
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But I do find that there's
a certain degree of absurdism
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inherent in a lot
of horror scenarios,
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where if the characters don't
take a moment and acknowledge
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that it almost
feels unreal.
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00:06:25,297 --> 00:06:27,037
Like, I'm not saying if I was
being chased through a house
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by a maniac with an ax,
I'd stop and just be like,
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-"This is just so weird."
-Right.
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00:06:31,129 --> 00:06:33,179
But I would probably
have that micro-thought
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at a certain moment
of just like,
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"Oh, this is, just, like,
so perfect that I would die
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in this, like,
absurd horror movie way."
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Showing the audience
that element,
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even if it's not totally real
to the real-life experience
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of being terrorized,
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gives the audience
their reality on screen,
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and it makes them like and root
for the characters more.
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Right.
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Liquidated, all right.
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That was a little close.
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00:07:06,295 --> 00:07:07,815
I don't want
to fan-boy out too much
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about the way
that you write,
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but I think that you have
this incredible ability
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00:07:11,692 --> 00:07:13,612
of your movies
really ratchet up,
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and they don't blow
their loads too early.
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A lot of big movies
you're sitting there watching,
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the best scene happens
45 minutes into the film.
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You know, and so what's
your kind of, like, process
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of finding that new way
to just keep on
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ratcheting everything up?
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If your biggest scare
is a half hour in,
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people are going to leave
the movie feeling deflated.
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So one of the things I do
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is I always write
my last scene first.
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I don't tend to outline
or do treatments,
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but I know what
I'm building to,
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and I can think about
kind of
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what that escalation is
throughout every scene.
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And if a scene isn't kind of
getting me closer to that,
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then I know I should
cut it out of the movie.
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Are there any particular
techniques that you would use
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to build to something like
the big fun house finale
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-at the end of "The Guest"?
-For "The Guest,"
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it's a tricky thing. People are
very into the family dynamic,
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and then once he actually
starts killing people,
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00:07:58,260 --> 00:08:00,000
we lose some viewers,
'cause they want Dan
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00:08:00,044 --> 00:08:01,664
-to kind of be the hero.
-Right.
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00:08:01,698 --> 00:08:03,528
But we knew that wasn't
the trajectory of the film,
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and so it's just about kind of
earning that in a character way.
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00:08:05,528 --> 00:08:07,138
And then once
I kind of realized
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what the tone of those
scenes was going to be,
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I was able to kind of
be like, "Okay.
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This is going to be the tone
of the final third of this film.
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Some people might not like it,
but I'm into it.
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Let's figure out the right kind
of 90 degree turn into this."
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Mm-hmm.
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00:08:18,149 --> 00:08:19,149
You're up.
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00:08:25,287 --> 00:08:27,507
We should look at some clips
or something that kind of
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illustrate the stuff we've been
talking about, right? Like --
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00:08:30,031 --> 00:08:32,251
But you were right there.
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00:08:32,294 --> 00:08:34,914
All right.
Let's check it out.
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You're sheltering enemies
of the state, are you not?
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00:08:49,659 --> 00:08:51,009
Yes.
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00:08:53,489 --> 00:08:55,189
You're sheltering them
underneath your floorboards,
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00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:56,540
aren't you?
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00:09:00,148 --> 00:09:01,798
Yes.
187
00:09:01,845 --> 00:09:03,585
Why don't you tell me about
the tension in this scene?
188
00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:07,590
Tarantino is so remarkably good
at these interminable scenes
189
00:09:07,634 --> 00:09:10,774
that should not work
and only do in his films.
190
00:09:10,811 --> 00:09:15,251
Only he can pull off just
this endless scene of dialogue
191
00:09:15,293 --> 00:09:17,123
that's so inherently
fascinating.
192
00:09:17,165 --> 00:09:18,645
We know what
the stakes are here.
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00:09:18,688 --> 00:09:22,388
He establishes them beautifully
with this camera move.
194
00:09:22,431 --> 00:09:24,611
It's like he's literally
referencing that Truffaut,
195
00:09:24,651 --> 00:09:26,351
Hitchcock conversation
about suspense.
196
00:09:26,391 --> 00:09:27,611
-Right. Yeah.
-It's like he's literally
197
00:09:27,654 --> 00:09:29,184
showing you the bomb
under the table.
198
00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:31,350
-The bomb under the table.
-I just find this kind
199
00:09:31,396 --> 00:09:35,046
of dialogue-driven suspense
really fascinating.
200
00:09:35,096 --> 00:09:38,056
I, myself, don't know
that I have the talent
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00:09:38,099 --> 00:09:39,709
to to achieve it,
202
00:09:39,753 --> 00:09:42,103
but that's why I like
going to see Tarantino.
203
00:09:45,672 --> 00:09:48,152
-May I approach?
-No!
204
00:09:48,196 --> 00:09:50,456
No. I'm going to throw it.
205
00:09:50,502 --> 00:09:52,682
Careful.
It was a gift.
206
00:09:59,816 --> 00:10:01,296
-They're killing us.
-Keep the gun!
207
00:10:01,339 --> 00:10:02,819
-No!
-All right.
208
00:10:02,863 --> 00:10:04,653
So this next clip, obviously,
is "Green Room."
209
00:10:04,691 --> 00:10:07,221
And so tell me why you think
that this one is, like,
210
00:10:07,258 --> 00:10:08,698
a perfect sense of tension.
211
00:10:08,738 --> 00:10:13,308
"Green Room" is probably
the only film in years
212
00:10:13,351 --> 00:10:15,921
that's made me
yell out loud in a theater.
213
00:10:15,963 --> 00:10:18,183
Once you've seen what's happened
to Anton Yelchin's arm...
214
00:10:18,226 --> 00:10:19,786
Yeah....and you've seen Imogen Poots,
215
00:10:19,836 --> 00:10:21,616
like, slit a guy's belly open...Right.
216
00:10:21,664 --> 00:10:23,494
...you just completely
have no idea
217
00:10:23,535 --> 00:10:24,885
what the movie's
going to do next.
218
00:10:24,928 --> 00:10:28,498
You know, it's not playing
by normal horror movie
219
00:10:28,540 --> 00:10:30,850
or thriller rules.
And of course, he's a musician,
220
00:10:30,891 --> 00:10:32,851
and so, you know,
that's, like, extra awful.
221
00:10:32,893 --> 00:10:34,423
He'll never play,
I don't know, the bass
222
00:10:34,459 --> 00:10:35,679
or whatever he plays again.
223
00:10:40,161 --> 00:10:42,641
Catherine, I'm going
to get you out of there,
224
00:10:42,685 --> 00:10:44,465
but right now,
you listen to me.
225
00:10:44,513 --> 00:10:46,863
I've got to leave this room.
I'll be right back.
226
00:10:46,907 --> 00:10:50,517
Catherine:
No! Don't you leave me here,
you fucking bitch! No!
227
00:10:50,562 --> 00:10:52,562
The classic
"Silence of the Lambs."
228
00:10:52,608 --> 00:10:54,828
Tell me about this one,
why this one resonates.
229
00:10:54,871 --> 00:10:57,481
So I imagine you probably
share my affinity
230
00:10:57,526 --> 00:11:00,746
for, like, A-list
kind of high-art cinema,
231
00:11:00,790 --> 00:11:03,400
and it's this shot right here
that references low
232
00:11:03,445 --> 00:11:05,445
or, you know,
so-called B movie cinema.
233
00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:08,020
You know, Jonathan Demme said
that Roger Corman told him
234
00:11:08,058 --> 00:11:09,968
at some point that
the scariest shot in cinema
235
00:11:10,017 --> 00:11:11,797
is a hand-held shot
approaching a closed door.
236
00:11:11,845 --> 00:11:13,235
-Right.
-So when he set out
237
00:11:13,281 --> 00:11:15,111
to make this thriller,
he put that shot in there.
238
00:11:15,152 --> 00:11:17,812
This entire sequence just has
such a great dynamic.
239
00:11:40,612 --> 00:11:42,532
It'll be a lot easier with that.
240
00:11:42,571 --> 00:11:45,141
Simon: This is a somewhat
different kind of suspense
241
00:11:45,182 --> 00:11:47,232
from some of the previous stuff,
where, like, in "Green Room"
242
00:11:47,271 --> 00:11:49,671
you're legitimately very
concerned for the characters.
243
00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:52,489
Same in "Inglourious Basterds"
and "Silence of the Lambs."
244
00:11:52,537 --> 00:11:55,497
This, I'm not
so much concerned.
245
00:11:55,540 --> 00:11:57,370
-I'm just very interested.
-Yeah.
246
00:11:57,412 --> 00:11:59,982
It's almost the inverse
of the "Inglourious Basterds"
247
00:12:00,023 --> 00:12:01,763
in certain ways, where
there's almost no dialogue.
248
00:12:01,808 --> 00:12:03,588
Right.It's just them
staring at each other
249
00:12:03,635 --> 00:12:06,285
while this amazing
Ennio Morricone score plays,
250
00:12:06,334 --> 00:12:09,644
which is, of course, some of
the best music of all time.
251
00:12:09,685 --> 00:12:10,985
These three guys
have been building up
252
00:12:11,034 --> 00:12:13,124
to a confrontation
now for 2 1/2 hours.
253
00:12:13,167 --> 00:12:15,597
Right.Their characters are so iconic
and interesting,
254
00:12:15,647 --> 00:12:17,647
and the actors are
doing such incredible,
255
00:12:17,693 --> 00:12:19,303
career-defining
performances
256
00:12:19,347 --> 00:12:22,647
that you just end up
being glued to the screen.
257
00:12:26,876 --> 00:12:28,136
Fuck!
258
00:12:33,535 --> 00:12:35,795
It's not even hot,
you dumb bitch!
259
00:12:35,842 --> 00:12:38,192
Mickey:
So, yeah. Tell me a little bit
about this and the tension.
260
00:12:38,235 --> 00:12:40,105
Simon: When I was writing
the script, you know, I --
261
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:42,940
This really bothered some people
on the IMDb message boards,
262
00:12:42,979 --> 00:12:45,329
as you can imagine, but it was
a creative choice for them
263
00:12:45,373 --> 00:12:46,903
to not ever have any guns.
264
00:12:46,940 --> 00:12:49,550
But it was also trying to find,
like, creative weapons.
265
00:12:49,594 --> 00:12:51,474
Right.You know, stuff that people
wouldn't necessarily think of,
266
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:53,209
do the kind of
"Home Alone" thing.
267
00:12:53,250 --> 00:12:55,170
I mean, obviously, this one was
very influenced by "Home Alone."
268
00:12:55,209 --> 00:12:57,209
I don't just want to see
someone get chased with, like,
269
00:12:57,254 --> 00:12:59,564
a gun or an ax or something
that I've seen before.
270
00:12:59,604 --> 00:13:02,264
I need to find, like, a creative
thing to do with those things.Yeah.
271
00:13:02,303 --> 00:13:03,783
And here's the blender gag,
272
00:13:03,826 --> 00:13:05,606
that, you know, that when
I wrote it in the script,
273
00:13:05,654 --> 00:13:07,874
I was just like, this seems
achievable on a budget.
274
00:13:07,917 --> 00:13:10,267
In any scenario, it's like,
"Okay. That could be goofy."
275
00:13:10,311 --> 00:13:13,621
But it is actually pretty brutal
and hard core of a blender gag.
276
00:13:13,662 --> 00:13:15,102
Well, I mean,
the movie has a tone
277
00:13:15,142 --> 00:13:16,972
that allows you to accept
something like this.
278
00:13:17,013 --> 00:13:18,713
I think this would be
a pretty inefficient way
279
00:13:18,754 --> 00:13:20,104
to actually kill someone.
280
00:13:20,147 --> 00:13:22,017
You guys pretty much
nailed the originality.
281
00:13:22,062 --> 00:13:24,852
It's so awesome.
282
00:13:24,891 --> 00:13:26,071
All right.
Well...
283
00:13:31,854 --> 00:13:33,294
This game's
getting close.
284
00:13:35,336 --> 00:13:37,816
So, I want to ask about
Simon Barrett pre-success.
285
00:13:37,860 --> 00:13:40,780
How do you do that? How do you
find ways to make movies
286
00:13:40,820 --> 00:13:43,080
when no one will return
your phone calls?
287
00:13:43,126 --> 00:13:45,646
I feel like as person who
graduated from film school,
288
00:13:45,694 --> 00:13:47,654
it's very hypocritical for me
to say what I want to say,
289
00:13:47,696 --> 00:13:49,046
which is don'tgo to film school.
Right. Don't.
290
00:13:49,089 --> 00:13:50,609
It's a complete waste
of time and money.
291
00:13:50,655 --> 00:13:53,265
The first film I got made
292
00:13:53,310 --> 00:13:56,180
was because a gentleman who had
acted in my student films,
293
00:13:56,226 --> 00:13:58,136
and I'd acted
in a couple of his,
294
00:13:58,185 --> 00:14:00,445
ended up working
in some capacity
295
00:14:00,491 --> 00:14:02,801
for the head of a company
that was making movies for Sony.
296
00:14:02,842 --> 00:14:04,452
And that's how I got
"Dead Birds" made.
297
00:14:04,495 --> 00:14:05,925
So if I hadn't gone
to film school,
298
00:14:05,975 --> 00:14:07,845
-none of that would've happened.
-Sure. Totally.
299
00:14:07,890 --> 00:14:09,070
Would I still be
making movies?
300
00:14:09,109 --> 00:14:11,069
Would I have an even
awesomer career?
301
00:14:11,111 --> 00:14:14,291
Would I, you know, be, like,
wielding an Oscar in each hand
302
00:14:14,331 --> 00:14:16,331
right now
instead of a blender in one?
303
00:14:16,377 --> 00:14:17,807
I don't know.
But I suspect not.
304
00:14:17,857 --> 00:14:19,077
Well, film school,
unfortunately,
305
00:14:19,119 --> 00:14:23,079
cannot save you now.
So, you're up.
306
00:14:23,123 --> 00:14:26,133
Four.
307
00:14:26,169 --> 00:14:27,479
Those odds --
308
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,530
-That was another --
-Well,
309
00:14:37,572 --> 00:14:39,662
you know what,
let's just ratchet this up,
310
00:14:39,704 --> 00:14:43,104
because there's nothing I love
more than a big, juicy climax.
311
00:14:45,319 --> 00:14:47,189
But why don't we talk
about your philosophy
312
00:14:47,234 --> 00:14:49,024
for the climax of a film?
313
00:14:53,370 --> 00:14:55,850
Well, I mean, again, it really
depends on the type of film
314
00:14:55,895 --> 00:14:57,415
you're trying to make.
315
00:14:57,461 --> 00:14:59,511
But I do feel like
the good climax
316
00:14:59,550 --> 00:15:03,120
to a movie both
simultaneously delivers
317
00:15:03,163 --> 00:15:06,123
on everything the audience would
want from that type of film.
318
00:15:06,166 --> 00:15:07,466
So if you're making
a horror movie,
319
00:15:07,515 --> 00:15:09,255
then it's, like,
the scariest series
320
00:15:09,299 --> 00:15:11,209
of sequences,
321
00:15:11,258 --> 00:15:12,958
you know, the most
perilous set pieces.
322
00:15:12,999 --> 00:15:14,999
And if you're making comedy,
it's the funniest.
323
00:15:15,044 --> 00:15:18,534
But it also should subvert
the viewers' expectations.
324
00:15:18,569 --> 00:15:21,219
I think a good ending
almost always contains
325
00:15:21,268 --> 00:15:23,138
an element of surprise,
'cause what you want
326
00:15:23,183 --> 00:15:24,713
is that ending that
gives you what you want,
327
00:15:24,749 --> 00:15:26,619
but in a way that you
couldn't have ever expected.
328
00:15:26,664 --> 00:15:28,234
Totally, and, you know,
to be honest,
329
00:15:28,275 --> 00:15:30,275
I did not expect it
to get to this point,
330
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,240
so...why don't you
just do it?
331
00:15:34,281 --> 00:15:35,941
All right.
This is it.
332
00:16:00,220 --> 00:16:02,050
Aah! My writing hand!
333
00:16:04,093 --> 00:16:05,363
Oh, why?!
334
00:16:20,544 --> 00:16:23,034
I'm going to be honest with you.
My face didn't actually melt,
335
00:16:23,069 --> 00:16:25,289
all thanks
to effects master Jim Ojala.
336
00:16:25,332 --> 00:16:28,472
Why don't you tell us how you
did these insane gore effects?
337
00:16:28,509 --> 00:16:30,249
Well, for your effect,
338
00:16:30,293 --> 00:16:33,603
we started out with
simple antacid tablets.
339
00:16:33,644 --> 00:16:35,174
-Mm-hmm.
-You can actually crush
340
00:16:35,211 --> 00:16:37,041
antacid tablets
into a powder
341
00:16:37,083 --> 00:16:40,303
and we went ahead did, like,
sore makeup on you.
342
00:16:40,347 --> 00:16:43,307
Mm-hmm.So you looked kind of, like,
bruised and irritated.
343
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:46,350
And then we powder the antacid
tablets into your face,
344
00:16:46,396 --> 00:16:47,786
and then you
spritz it with water,
345
00:16:47,832 --> 00:16:49,232
and boom, your face
starts bubbling.
346
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:50,879
-Right.
-So that's stage one.
347
00:16:50,922 --> 00:16:54,542
And then stage two,
we go into gelatin, basically.
348
00:16:54,578 --> 00:16:56,318
You tint it up
with the cream makeup,
349
00:16:56,363 --> 00:16:57,633
so it's like a skin tone,
350
00:16:57,668 --> 00:16:59,448
and then you can put
that on your face
351
00:16:59,496 --> 00:17:02,236
and start doing a buildup so it
looks like all bubbly and gross.
352
00:17:02,282 --> 00:17:03,812
And then you create
the dimension.
353
00:17:03,848 --> 00:17:05,628
Then put in your sores
and all that stuff.
354
00:17:05,676 --> 00:17:07,196
And what is all this?
Are these your tests?
355
00:17:07,243 --> 00:17:09,123
Yeah. And then these are
Pros-Aide Transfers.
356
00:17:09,158 --> 00:17:12,068
These are basically, like,
sculptures of boils
357
00:17:12,118 --> 00:17:15,078
that we put on you, as well,
to kind of give extra dimension,
358
00:17:15,121 --> 00:17:17,081
and then we sculpted
the gelatin on top of that,
359
00:17:17,123 --> 00:17:19,263
just so you have different
textures and stuff like that.
360
00:17:19,299 --> 00:17:21,259
And then loose hair is
always just really gross.
361
00:17:21,301 --> 00:17:23,091
-Right.
-So we figure if you're melting
362
00:17:23,129 --> 00:17:26,219
from sulfuric acid, your hair's
coming out, everything.
363
00:17:26,262 --> 00:17:27,832
So we mat your hair down
364
00:17:27,872 --> 00:17:30,142
so you've got, like, bald spots
showing up,
365
00:17:30,179 --> 00:17:33,569
and then this is, like, just is
stringing down in the gelatin.
366
00:17:33,617 --> 00:17:35,917
So that's why I'm going to find,
like, loose hair in places
367
00:17:35,967 --> 00:17:38,487
for the next month or so, right?Yeah. Exactly.
368
00:17:38,535 --> 00:17:40,795
-Every nook and cranny. Yes.
-Every nook and cranny.
369
00:17:40,842 --> 00:17:43,802
And then for the final,
to just really go extreme,
370
00:17:43,845 --> 00:17:45,755
and to be able to do it
fairly quickly,
371
00:17:45,803 --> 00:17:47,373
we made a silicone
burn mask.
372
00:17:47,414 --> 00:17:49,114
And so is this a custom-made
mask? You made it --
373
00:17:49,155 --> 00:17:51,235
Yes. It's kind of like the same
technique as gelatin...
374
00:17:51,287 --> 00:17:52,507
-Cool.
-...where you stretch, like,
375
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:54,249
a sock, over a head form
376
00:17:54,290 --> 00:17:56,250
and then just start
gooping on silicone,
377
00:17:56,292 --> 00:17:59,122
and as it sets, you stretch it
and make it look nasty.
378
00:17:59,165 --> 00:18:00,685
And then you put on
all the burn
379
00:18:00,731 --> 00:18:01,951
and the teeth
and all that stuff.
380
00:18:01,993 --> 00:18:04,743
-Yeah. Yeah.
-Okay. And three.
381
00:18:04,779 --> 00:18:08,089
Two. One.
382
00:18:08,130 --> 00:18:09,480
How about the hand
in the blender,
383
00:18:09,523 --> 00:18:12,183
which, you know,
is both disgusting
384
00:18:12,221 --> 00:18:13,571
and also very splattery?
385
00:18:13,614 --> 00:18:16,274
For that, we had Simon
put his hand in,
386
00:18:16,312 --> 00:18:18,012
and you got all
the great lead-up,
387
00:18:18,053 --> 00:18:19,883
and then, so we can actually
see, like, a close-up
388
00:18:19,924 --> 00:18:21,364
of something
physically happening
389
00:18:21,404 --> 00:18:22,974
-to the skin...
-Right.
390
00:18:23,014 --> 00:18:24,934
...we made a nice
gelatin hand
391
00:18:24,973 --> 00:18:27,983
where from here
all the way to here,
392
00:18:28,019 --> 00:18:29,889
is filled with blood.
And then it's sealed off
393
00:18:29,934 --> 00:18:32,154
so it can't leak out
until you puncture it.
394
00:18:32,198 --> 00:18:35,158
So then you put that in,
and then once those blades
395
00:18:35,201 --> 00:18:36,811
start tearing
at these fingers,
396
00:18:36,854 --> 00:18:38,514
-it just rips everything apart.
-Wow.
397
00:18:38,552 --> 00:18:41,252
So you can get that quick second
of something really badass
398
00:18:41,294 --> 00:18:42,694
happening on camera.
399
00:18:42,730 --> 00:18:45,430
Then you cut to the wide
or medium of Simon,
400
00:18:45,472 --> 00:18:47,562
which, he's got tubes,
401
00:18:47,604 --> 00:18:52,484
one tube with a little bit of
foam, connected to each finger.
402
00:18:52,522 --> 00:18:55,612
And then we made this little,
like, custom silicone piece
403
00:18:55,656 --> 00:18:57,696
for the top of his knuckles.
404
00:18:57,745 --> 00:19:00,265
And then once it's blended and
painted to look like his skin,
405
00:19:00,313 --> 00:19:02,273
it looks like --
Well, when it's spraying blood,
406
00:19:02,315 --> 00:19:04,485
it looks like his damn fingers
are cut off, you know?
407
00:19:04,534 --> 00:19:06,284
And if you want the crazy amount
of pressure
408
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:08,629
that we had coming out
of your hand...
409
00:19:08,669 --> 00:19:10,979
Yeah....you can get, like,
fire extinguishers
410
00:19:11,019 --> 00:19:12,889
that are specifically
made for water,
411
00:19:12,934 --> 00:19:15,554
and then you can pressurize
them up to 100 psi.
412
00:19:15,589 --> 00:19:16,849
-Right.
-And, boom,
413
00:19:16,894 --> 00:19:18,464
you go as hard
as you want with it.
414
00:19:18,505 --> 00:19:20,985
And so wherever you spray the
blood, that's up to the actor.
415
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:22,249
-Exactly.
-You really went for it.
416
00:19:22,291 --> 00:19:23,991
-You had great direction.
-Yeah. Yeah.
417
00:19:24,032 --> 00:19:26,602
Yeah.
I regret it tremendously.
418
00:19:26,643 --> 00:19:29,043
Eagle-eyed viewers will note
the continuity error.
419
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,390
I lost my left hand.
That's a right hand.
420
00:19:31,431 --> 00:19:33,651
-Oh, that's an alternative.
-Oh, yeah. Okay.
421
00:19:33,694 --> 00:19:35,264
You know, the funny thing is,
you know,
422
00:19:35,304 --> 00:19:37,004
the whole blender gag
in "You're Next"
423
00:19:37,045 --> 00:19:39,265
that we're riffing on where
that person gets a blender
424
00:19:39,308 --> 00:19:40,608
shoved into their head,
425
00:19:40,657 --> 00:19:42,357
you know, the only reason
I even wrote that
426
00:19:42,398 --> 00:19:44,838
is 'cause it was a special
effect that I felt like no one
427
00:19:44,879 --> 00:19:46,749
could tell me
it was impossible to do,
428
00:19:46,794 --> 00:19:48,364
because I knew a little bit
about blood tubing...
429
00:19:48,404 --> 00:19:49,934
-Right.
-...and fake smoke and stuff.
430
00:19:49,971 --> 00:19:51,541
And I was like, this is
something we can achieve.
431
00:19:51,581 --> 00:19:52,931
-Yeah. Totally.
-That will work.
432
00:19:52,974 --> 00:19:54,244
That will work,
and it will look good,
433
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,020
and it won't ruin
our shooting day.
434
00:19:56,064 --> 00:19:57,544
-Right. Absolutely.
-Yeah, and it was --
435
00:19:57,587 --> 00:20:00,587
Blender stuff is, you know,
it's horrifying...
436
00:20:00,634 --> 00:20:02,034
-Yeah.
-...but achievable.
437
00:20:02,070 --> 00:20:03,590
It gives you a lot of room
to wire stuff.
438
00:20:03,637 --> 00:20:05,597
Well, it's smart, 'cause
you're in a confined space,
439
00:20:05,639 --> 00:20:07,379
so it's not just like
it's all over the place.
440
00:20:07,423 --> 00:20:09,343
Well, thank you, Simon,
for giving us an awesome lesson
441
00:20:09,382 --> 00:20:11,602
on tension. Thank you, Jim,
for making us look so fucked up.
442
00:20:11,645 --> 00:20:13,725
And come with me.
I got something to show you.
443
00:20:22,090 --> 00:20:24,480
Simon's movies are fun.
They're suspenseful.
444
00:20:24,527 --> 00:20:28,137
They're scary as hell partly
because they're also not real,
445
00:20:28,183 --> 00:20:29,363
but they play on
real-world fears,
446
00:20:29,402 --> 00:20:31,192
and that's why they hook us.
447
00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:33,800
Who better to tell us exactly
what we need to be afraid of
448
00:20:33,841 --> 00:20:36,671
than a renowned criminologist,
Dr. Bill Sanders?
449
00:20:36,713 --> 00:20:38,853
-How are you, sir?
-Very well, thank you.
450
00:20:38,889 --> 00:20:40,459
So, I watch a lot
of horror movies
451
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,850
which basically makes me afraid
of pretty much everything.
452
00:20:43,894 --> 00:20:47,124
And so what is the thing that
I should be the most afraid of?
453
00:20:47,158 --> 00:20:48,858
The person you should
be most afraid of
454
00:20:48,899 --> 00:20:50,859
is the one sitting right next
to you watching that film.
455
00:20:50,901 --> 00:20:53,821
Horror movies depict
a deranged killer,
456
00:20:53,861 --> 00:20:55,521
a lunatic, often.
457
00:20:55,558 --> 00:20:57,598
It's much more mundane
in real life.
458
00:20:57,647 --> 00:21:00,687
It's someone you know,
particularly if you're married
459
00:21:00,737 --> 00:21:02,697
or have a boyfriend,
girlfriend.
460
00:21:02,739 --> 00:21:05,129
That's usually the number-one
suspect in all homicides.
461
00:21:05,176 --> 00:21:08,136
If not that, a friend,
a family member.
462
00:21:08,179 --> 00:21:10,049
Bottom line,
it's someone you know.
463
00:21:10,094 --> 00:21:12,014
Jesus.
Well, that's comforting.
464
00:21:12,053 --> 00:21:13,623
From an experts'
perspective,
465
00:21:13,663 --> 00:21:16,453
what do most
horror films get wrong?
466
00:21:16,492 --> 00:21:19,802
The planning involved
is not so extensive.
467
00:21:19,843 --> 00:21:21,283
Murders just come,
468
00:21:21,323 --> 00:21:23,633
happen in the spur of
the moment out of anger.
469
00:21:23,673 --> 00:21:26,763
The individual just lashes out
and kills someone.
470
00:21:26,807 --> 00:21:31,327
Another thing they get wrong
is how clean the homicides are,
471
00:21:31,377 --> 00:21:34,947
or as if they know exactly
in the body where to hit.
472
00:21:34,989 --> 00:21:36,429
You know, they're going
to slice their neck,
473
00:21:36,469 --> 00:21:38,429
and then they just
bleed out peacefully.
474
00:21:38,471 --> 00:21:40,601
Or they just get shot
in the right place,
475
00:21:40,647 --> 00:21:42,337
and shot only once
or twice.
476
00:21:42,388 --> 00:21:46,438
Real-life homicides are often
characterized by overkill,
477
00:21:46,479 --> 00:21:50,219
whereby they are stabbed
well beyond the necessary --
478
00:21:50,265 --> 00:21:51,915
necessity that
would cause death,
479
00:21:51,962 --> 00:21:54,792
and/or they are killed
in various ways.
480
00:21:54,835 --> 00:21:57,355
So they are shot,
then they are stabbed,
481
00:21:57,403 --> 00:21:58,883
and then they are burned.
482
00:21:58,926 --> 00:22:02,576
So it is, again, within that
emotional overdrive,
483
00:22:02,625 --> 00:22:05,625
base, you know, fear,
tension, righteousness,
484
00:22:05,672 --> 00:22:07,592
the adrenaline
the body produces,
485
00:22:07,630 --> 00:22:09,760
the frenzied attack.
486
00:22:09,806 --> 00:22:11,416
It's far from clean.
487
00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:13,980
What are the major societal
factors that would result
488
00:22:14,028 --> 00:22:17,118
in someone committing a homicide
or something like that?
489
00:22:17,161 --> 00:22:20,341
One of the main predictors
of being both a victim
490
00:22:20,382 --> 00:22:22,952
and a perpetrator of homicide
is being a male.
491
00:22:22,993 --> 00:22:25,953
Another one is age.
It is young people.
492
00:22:25,996 --> 00:22:28,776
So, as we age, you know,
get out of 20s and 30s,
493
00:22:28,825 --> 00:22:30,215
we actually are
less susceptible
494
00:22:30,261 --> 00:22:32,001
at being both a victim
and perpetrator.
495
00:22:32,046 --> 00:22:34,786
But if you want to know
the master variable, like,
496
00:22:34,831 --> 00:22:38,101
this out of all the variables
consistently indicate
497
00:22:38,139 --> 00:22:40,619
to be the strongest,
it would be poverty.
498
00:22:40,663 --> 00:22:43,973
And even amongst poverty, so
amongst poor areas, what's that?
499
00:22:44,014 --> 00:22:46,024
It would be absolute
depravation.
500
00:22:46,060 --> 00:22:49,190
So who, in the poor areas,
is most deprived
501
00:22:49,237 --> 00:22:51,757
or concentrations
of that deprivation,
502
00:22:51,805 --> 00:22:53,275
that is where you'll have
503
00:22:53,328 --> 00:22:55,288
the strongest correlations
with homicide.
504
00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:59,200
So, finally, how do you
get away with murder?
505
00:22:59,247 --> 00:23:00,597
I would like to know that
506
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,160
because of a script
that I'm...writing.
507
00:23:03,207 --> 00:23:05,247
Just go kill someone randomly
you've never seen before
508
00:23:05,296 --> 00:23:07,336
on the street.
509
00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:09,166
And just run
as fast as I can?
510
00:23:09,213 --> 00:23:10,823
Well, as I have
indicated earlier,
511
00:23:10,867 --> 00:23:12,427
homicides are most
likely to occur
512
00:23:12,478 --> 00:23:14,218
amongst people
who know one another.
513
00:23:14,262 --> 00:23:17,002
So the number-one suspect
in the homicide,
514
00:23:17,047 --> 00:23:19,487
the detectives are thinking,
"Someone this guy knows."
515
00:23:19,528 --> 00:23:21,968
The detective is not
going to be thinking,
516
00:23:22,009 --> 00:23:24,189
"Oh, this is some random guy
who just walked by
517
00:23:24,228 --> 00:23:25,528
and happened to stab,
or shoot,
518
00:23:25,578 --> 00:23:27,748
or whatever,
this individual right there."
519
00:23:27,797 --> 00:23:31,577
So by engaging in that
uncommon pattern of behavior,
520
00:23:31,627 --> 00:23:33,847
you are less likely
to get caught
521
00:23:33,890 --> 00:23:35,540
and/or get away with murder.
522
00:23:35,588 --> 00:23:38,028
Well, Dr. Sanders, I can't say
that this helped alleviate
523
00:23:38,068 --> 00:23:41,158
any of my preexisting anxieties,
but it really was fascinating,
524
00:23:41,202 --> 00:23:43,122
and thank you so much
for being on the show.
525
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,690
Thanks for having me.
526
00:23:53,997 --> 00:23:56,217
Dude, we had Simon Barrett on
today,
527
00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:58,050
and it was intense.
528
00:23:58,088 --> 00:23:59,388
I saw.
529
00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:00,738
Already?
530
00:24:03,964 --> 00:24:05,754
Here. Take this.
531
00:24:09,752 --> 00:24:12,632
There are other weird video
stores I can go to, you know?
532
00:24:16,455 --> 00:24:17,925
Take it. Some on.
This whole meta thing's
533
00:24:17,978 --> 00:24:19,888
really fucking with my head.
534
00:24:22,069 --> 00:24:24,589
I'm fucking with you.
535
00:24:24,637 --> 00:24:28,027
All right.
Tension.
536
00:24:28,075 --> 00:24:30,335
Got some crazy
tense movies for you.
537
00:24:32,993 --> 00:24:34,783
You ever think about moving
a little bit closer
538
00:24:34,821 --> 00:24:38,561
-to civilization?
-Nope.
539
00:24:38,607 --> 00:24:40,697
-Want your spine tingled?
-Every day.
540
00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:42,180
First up, we've got
"Willow Creek"
541
00:24:42,219 --> 00:24:44,089
from director
Bobcat Goldthwait.
542
00:24:44,134 --> 00:24:45,834
He makes a movie
about Bigfoot.
543
00:24:45,875 --> 00:24:49,915
At one point, two characters
in one tent and nowhere to look
544
00:24:49,966 --> 00:24:51,786
but directly into
their terrified eyes
545
00:24:51,838 --> 00:24:53,398
wondering what's outside.
546
00:24:57,408 --> 00:24:58,978
No!
547
00:24:59,019 --> 00:25:00,589
Next up, we got "The Reef."
548
00:25:00,629 --> 00:25:03,279
Not dissimilar, except you're
not stuck inside a tent,
549
00:25:03,327 --> 00:25:05,197
you're out in the open sea,
a couple of people,
550
00:25:05,242 --> 00:25:06,982
and sharks all around them.
551
00:25:07,027 --> 00:25:09,457
-Do they get turned into chum?
-I'm not going to tell you.
552
00:25:09,508 --> 00:25:11,338
We got "Take Shelter"
from Jeff Nichols,
553
00:25:11,379 --> 00:25:12,949
starring Michael Shannon.
554
00:25:12,989 --> 00:25:14,859
He's getting premonitions
of the end of the world, right?
555
00:25:14,904 --> 00:25:16,654
The whole time,
he's paranoid.
556
00:25:16,689 --> 00:25:18,429
He's wondering
if he's going insane.
557
00:25:18,473 --> 00:25:20,003
When he has to tell
his entire community,
558
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,650
it's one of the most
uncomfortable sequences
559
00:25:21,694 --> 00:25:22,744
on Shudder.
560
00:25:22,782 --> 00:25:23,912
Does the end
of the world happen?
561
00:25:23,957 --> 00:25:25,347
I'm not going to tell you.
562
00:25:25,393 --> 00:25:28,613
Next up, we have a Shudder
exclusive, "We Go On."
563
00:25:28,657 --> 00:25:30,397
This is one of my favorite
modern haunters.
564
00:25:30,441 --> 00:25:32,621
I'd like to offer $30,000
to the first person
565
00:25:32,661 --> 00:25:34,971
that can show me definitive
proof of life after death.
566
00:25:35,011 --> 00:25:38,151
A man terrified of death
and dying to know
567
00:25:38,188 --> 00:25:39,668
whether there's
an afterlife.
568
00:25:39,712 --> 00:25:41,672
When he finds out
ghosts are real,
569
00:25:41,714 --> 00:25:43,894
it'll upend
your whole night.
570
00:25:43,933 --> 00:25:45,333
That sounds
very unsettling.
571
00:25:49,983 --> 00:25:53,553
One of our favorite contemporary
slashers, "Lake Bodom."
572
00:25:53,595 --> 00:25:56,415
At one point, two of
the characters realize
573
00:25:56,467 --> 00:25:58,207
that the key
they need to a car
574
00:25:58,252 --> 00:26:02,172
is in the pocket of a dead body
at the bottom of said lake.
575
00:26:02,212 --> 00:26:03,652
Is she going to make it back up?Is she?
576
00:26:03,692 --> 00:26:05,562
You're going to have
to watch to find out.
577
00:26:05,607 --> 00:26:07,737
Thank you so much, Sam.
I got some watching to do.
578
00:26:07,783 --> 00:26:09,483
Hey, don't drop
those tapes.
579
00:26:09,524 --> 00:26:11,704
They are on-air masters.
580
00:26:11,744 --> 00:26:13,184
I will be very careful.
581
00:26:13,223 --> 00:26:16,493
-Thank you.
-Until next time.
582
00:26:18,533 --> 00:26:20,193
That'll do it for "The Core."
583
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:23,280
Thank you so much again to titan
of tension Simon Barrett.
584
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,760
And I don't know
about you, but now,
585
00:26:25,801 --> 00:26:28,111
I'm going to do something
that always relaxes me.
45018
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