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00:00:08,008 --> 00:00:12,534
My name is Lisa Guerrero.
Playboy, in many ways,
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00:00:12,621 --> 00:00:14,405
is the reason
I am where I am today.
3
00:00:14,536 --> 00:00:16,755
Why would you try to take
advantage of young women?
4
00:00:16,842 --> 00:00:18,540
You might have seen me
on "Inside Edition."
5
00:00:18,670 --> 00:00:20,629
Were you trying
to rip me off?
6
00:00:20,759 --> 00:00:25,025
In my early 20s, I was
a "Playboy" lingerie model.
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00:00:25,112 --> 00:00:26,765
20 years later,
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00:00:26,896 --> 00:00:29,768
I became a celebrity cover model
for "Playboy"
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00:00:29,899 --> 00:00:32,554
in January of 2006.
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00:00:32,641 --> 00:00:36,297
This series is about women
like me,
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00:00:36,384 --> 00:00:38,429
who have an association
with "Playboy"
12
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,823
but are now looking back
and questioning
13
00:00:40,910 --> 00:00:43,086
some really serious things.
14
00:00:43,173 --> 00:00:45,349
They've bravely shared
their stories,
15
00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:48,004
but the backlash has been swift.
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00:00:48,091 --> 00:00:52,487
Tonight, they'll share
the aftermath of speaking out.
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00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,410
My name is Sondra Theodore,
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00:01:02,497 --> 00:01:04,847
and I was Hef's girlfriend
in the '70s and early '80s
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00:01:04,977 --> 00:01:07,241
for five years.
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00:01:07,328 --> 00:01:12,028
It was like living a fairy tale,
and...he made me believe it,
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00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:14,683
and everybody else did, too,
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'cause I don't know if they--
they all felt like
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00:01:16,902 --> 00:01:23,300
it was a fairy tale, too,
that we were so in love.
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I would have never thought
she would speak about Hef,
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00:01:27,652 --> 00:01:30,612
'cause boy,
was she loyal to him.
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00:01:30,699 --> 00:01:36,183
Hefner--he broke me like
you would break a horse.
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00:01:36,270 --> 00:01:39,229
Hef used, uh, cocaine.
He had a drawerful of drugs.
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The drugs fueled how many people
you could get in your bed,
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00:01:42,972 --> 00:01:44,974
and all of a sudden,
there's three of us,
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00:01:45,061 --> 00:01:47,585
and three girls became five,
and it got ridiculous up there.
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He twisted my mind so much that
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00:01:51,372 --> 00:01:55,724
if I loved him, that proved
how much I loved him.
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00:01:55,811 --> 00:01:59,684
And I didn't wanna be
with those people.
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00:01:59,771 --> 00:02:02,470
He scared me a lot
at the end,
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00:02:02,557 --> 00:02:05,473
because you--you couldn't
satisfy him.
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00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,736
He had to have more and more
and more.
37
00:02:07,823 --> 00:02:11,522
You know, pretty wild.
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00:02:11,609 --> 00:02:14,308
♪
39
00:02:14,395 --> 00:02:16,571
One of the misconceptions
40
00:02:16,658 --> 00:02:18,529
that some audience members
might have...
41
00:02:18,616 --> 00:02:19,661
- Uh-huh.
- ...is, you know,
42
00:02:19,748 --> 00:02:21,489
why didn't you tell this story
earlier?
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00:02:21,576 --> 00:02:24,492
Because if I admitted it,
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00:02:24,622 --> 00:02:26,798
it made my story--
the fairy tale,
45
00:02:26,929 --> 00:02:29,061
turn into a nightmare, and--
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and so many people
counted on that fairy tale
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00:02:32,021 --> 00:02:33,327
like my own children.
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00:02:34,893 --> 00:02:37,200
thinking I had been a princess,
at thyou know?res,
49
00:02:37,287 --> 00:02:39,028
When most people break up
with somebody...
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00:02:39,115 --> 00:02:40,334
- Mm-hmm.
- ...they move on.
51
00:02:41,987 --> 00:02:43,728
They're not involved
- Thwith their families.in.
52
00:02:43,859 --> 00:02:45,861
They don't go back
for reunions.
53
00:02:45,948 --> 00:02:47,471
- Your situation was different.
- Yeah.
54
00:02:47,558 --> 00:02:51,171
Because when you
and Hef broke up,
55
00:02:51,301 --> 00:02:53,608
you continued to be part
of his life.
56
00:02:53,695 --> 00:02:56,393
Yeah. You know,
I'm not even sure how--
57
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,439
how I ended up back there,
58
00:02:58,569 --> 00:03:00,615
because it was a painful
breakup, but I did.
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00:03:00,745 --> 00:03:03,618
I ran from the bad by
60
00:03:03,705 --> 00:03:05,881
working really hard at being
normal, by getting married.
61
00:03:06,011 --> 00:03:07,622
On my wedding day,
I thought, "See?
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00:03:07,752 --> 00:03:11,147
See? I did it.
I was able to get married."
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00:03:11,234 --> 00:03:13,802
Hef came to my wedding, and he
gave me my wedding reception,
64
00:03:13,932 --> 00:03:15,369
and the pictures.
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00:03:15,456 --> 00:03:17,371
- You married one of his friends.
- Yeah.
66
00:03:17,458 --> 00:03:19,024
He was in the business.
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00:03:19,111 --> 00:03:20,287
He ended up handling a lot
of the Playmates.
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00:03:20,374 --> 00:03:23,246
He understood me
and what I'd been through.
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00:03:23,377 --> 00:03:25,205
So I didn't have
to explain myself,
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00:03:25,335 --> 00:03:27,381
and for a while,
we had a great life.
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00:03:27,468 --> 00:03:29,992
We have two beautiful children,
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00:03:30,079 --> 00:03:31,994
and forever grateful for them.
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00:03:32,081 --> 00:03:35,258
All the girlfriends came back.
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00:03:35,345 --> 00:03:37,826
We brought our children up
for Easter.
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00:03:37,956 --> 00:03:41,308
Easter was very family-oriented,
and so that really helped
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00:03:41,438 --> 00:03:43,571
make everything okay.
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00:03:43,658 --> 00:03:46,443
It was the only family we knew.
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00:03:46,530 --> 00:03:49,577
20 years
after we'd been together,
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00:03:49,664 --> 00:03:52,797
if I showed up, Hef would make
a big show of "Here she is"
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00:03:52,884 --> 00:03:56,845
and the fake,
"I'm about ready to cry."
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00:03:56,975 --> 00:03:58,455
And so you believe it.
You get sucked back into it,
82
00:03:58,586 --> 00:04:01,806
and all the bad things--
you think,
83
00:04:01,893 --> 00:04:04,592
"Well, everybody else thinks
he's okay. He's great.
84
00:04:04,722 --> 00:04:08,030
So maybe it's me."
He was that good.
85
00:04:08,117 --> 00:04:11,990
It's charm
and smoke and mirrors.
86
00:04:12,077 --> 00:04:14,384
Everybody kept it alive--
that fantasy.
87
00:04:14,515 --> 00:04:15,516
- And you bought into this.
- -I bought--
- Well, yeah--
88
00:04:15,603 --> 00:04:17,605
- Forever.
- Forever.
89
00:04:19,389 --> 00:04:20,390
you brought your kids back.
- FYou kept going back.rs,
90
00:04:22,566 --> 00:04:25,047
...with these women. You kept
in touch with them until what?
91
00:04:25,177 --> 00:04:27,441
What was the breaking point
for you where you said,
92
00:04:27,528 --> 00:04:30,966
"Enough. I'm not going to play
into this fantasy anymore"?
93
00:04:31,096 --> 00:04:32,620
It was a long journey
to get here.
94
00:04:32,750 --> 00:04:35,492
I had nobody to talk to
back then.
95
00:04:35,579 --> 00:04:37,842
And then I saw him
indoctrinating my daughter.
96
00:04:37,929 --> 00:04:39,627
Wait. What?
97
00:04:39,714 --> 00:04:42,194
Well, he never touched her,
or I would've killed him.
98
00:04:42,325 --> 00:04:44,371
But the same thing--
when she would walk in,
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00:04:44,501 --> 00:04:46,721
he singles her out
and made her feel special,
100
00:04:46,808 --> 00:04:48,026
and I'd say to him,
"You can't have her.
101
00:04:48,157 --> 00:04:49,506
Don't you touch her."
102
00:04:49,593 --> 00:04:51,813
And, um...
103
00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:56,165
[voice breaking] And...
104
00:04:56,252 --> 00:04:59,516
That's obviously
a really difficult thing
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00:04:59,647 --> 00:05:01,866
for you to remember.
- Yeah. Yeah.
106
00:05:01,997 --> 00:05:03,825
[exhales deeply]
Because if he had touched her,
107
00:05:03,955 --> 00:05:08,308
I would just have died. Um...
108
00:05:08,438 --> 00:05:11,311
You knew more than anybody
how dark...
109
00:05:11,398 --> 00:05:13,704
- Yeah.
- ...Hugh Hefner really was...
110
00:05:13,835 --> 00:05:15,184
Yeah.
111
00:05:15,271 --> 00:05:17,534
...and that there were
no boundaries.
112
00:05:17,621 --> 00:05:19,231
- Nowhere.
- Would you have been surprised
113
00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:21,277
if he would have tried
to lure your daughter in?
114
00:05:21,408 --> 00:05:25,455
He would've. He would've.
115
00:05:25,586 --> 00:05:27,588
One of the things I was
interested in asking you about
116
00:05:27,675 --> 00:05:30,808
is how your family reacted
to your story,
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00:05:30,939 --> 00:05:33,289
specifically your daughter.
118
00:05:33,420 --> 00:05:35,509
It was not easy.
It was not good.
119
00:05:35,596 --> 00:05:38,555
I'm saying these things,
and she's so confused.
120
00:05:38,642 --> 00:05:42,864
We went through many years of
I was feeling like an outcast
121
00:05:42,951 --> 00:05:45,519
from my family, because I didn't
have the support of them
122
00:05:45,606 --> 00:05:47,521
in the beginning.
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00:05:47,608 --> 00:05:48,826
They loved me
and they wanted to support me,
124
00:05:48,913 --> 00:05:50,611
but they didn't understand it.
125
00:05:50,698 --> 00:05:52,482
They couldn't--
They couldn't go there.
126
00:05:52,613 --> 00:05:54,745
By the end of the documentary,
they finally came around,
127
00:05:54,832 --> 00:05:56,312
when their father finally said
to my daughter,
128
00:05:56,399 --> 00:05:59,359
"Hef wasn't always a good guy.
129
00:05:59,446 --> 00:06:01,012
He did some bad things
to your mother,"
130
00:06:01,099 --> 00:06:02,927
and that was the moment
131
00:06:03,014 --> 00:06:05,669
she was able to let go
of the fairy tale, too,
132
00:06:05,756 --> 00:06:09,586
and that was really a huge,
huge breaking point for us,
133
00:06:09,673 --> 00:06:13,329
for my child to accept it.
134
00:06:13,416 --> 00:06:17,072
I wanna ask you
about the Playboy family.
135
00:06:17,159 --> 00:06:19,509
Can you describe
some of the backlash,
136
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:20,292
once you told the story?
- Yeah.
137
00:06:20,423 --> 00:06:22,207
What has that been like?
138
00:06:22,294 --> 00:06:24,122
I'm being chewed up
and spit up by my own.
139
00:06:24,253 --> 00:06:27,038
Not one of them picked up
the phone to ask me why
140
00:06:27,125 --> 00:06:29,301
I was doing this.
141
00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:32,479
They're afraid
to be shunned themselves.
142
00:06:32,566 --> 00:06:36,526
I loved a lot of those girls.
We were lifetime friends.
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00:06:36,657 --> 00:06:38,789
And to walk away from them,
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00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,793
self-exile was very hard
because that's all I knew.
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00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,621
♪
146
00:06:44,752 --> 00:06:48,103
Tell me about the first time
you went online
147
00:06:48,233 --> 00:06:49,800
and saw the reaction
to your story.
148
00:06:49,887 --> 00:06:53,630
Ugh. The warrior in me
wanted to just write back
149
00:06:53,761 --> 00:06:56,024
and say, "Are you kidding me?"
But I, you know,
150
00:06:56,154 --> 00:06:58,330
I just stopped myself.
I thought, this will play out,
151
00:06:58,461 --> 00:07:00,376
and hopefully, by the end
of the documentary,
152
00:07:00,463 --> 00:07:02,509
they will see the whole picture,
153
00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:05,033
and they'll have to come
to their own truth.
154
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,818
- And--
- And they need to respect mine,
155
00:07:07,949 --> 00:07:12,780
because nobody can tell you
your story's a lie,
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00:07:12,867 --> 00:07:16,044
because it's not their story.
Um, I'm not attacking them.
157
00:07:16,174 --> 00:07:20,440
I'm just bringing to light
another part of the reality.
158
00:07:20,527 --> 00:07:24,748
- Your identity for decades...
- Yeah.
159
00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:26,968
Was connected to--to Hugh Hefner
and this Playboy brand.
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00:07:27,055 --> 00:07:29,710
Yeah.
And to say that it was a lie,
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00:07:29,797 --> 00:07:32,452
that "I was hurt,"
that "I saw other people hurt,"
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00:07:32,539 --> 00:07:34,236
that "I saw him hurting
other people"...
163
00:07:34,323 --> 00:07:36,151
Yeah.
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00:07:36,281 --> 00:07:39,676
...that is a big, brave,
bold thing to do.
165
00:07:39,763 --> 00:07:41,504
Thank you.
166
00:07:41,591 --> 00:07:44,725
And there are some people
who support you.
167
00:07:44,812 --> 00:07:47,162
Yeah.
168
00:07:47,249 --> 00:07:50,295
Lisa Loving Barrett is somebody
you haven't seen in a while,
169
00:07:50,382 --> 00:07:52,776
and she plays an essential part
of your...
170
00:07:52,863 --> 00:07:54,256
- Story.
- ...story, really.
171
00:07:54,343 --> 00:07:55,997
- Yes. Yeah.
- And so are you ready to...
172
00:07:57,825 --> 00:07:59,000
- Yes, I am so ready.
- Here's Lisa Loving Barrett.
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00:07:59,130 --> 00:08:00,871
Oh, my God.
174
00:08:00,958 --> 00:08:04,222
- It's been a minute. [laughs]
- It's been a minute.
175
00:08:04,353 --> 00:08:05,006
I don't know if I wanna hug you
or feed you.
176
00:08:05,093 --> 00:08:09,010
[laughter]
177
00:08:09,097 --> 00:08:11,534
One of the things that I loved
about the documentary
178
00:08:11,621 --> 00:08:15,277
was how you women connected
through something
179
00:08:15,364 --> 00:08:18,062
that was a little dark, Lisa.
180
00:08:18,193 --> 00:08:20,717
What was your role there
before you met Sondra?
181
00:08:20,848 --> 00:08:23,415
I actually was working
part-time under the table,
182
00:08:23,503 --> 00:08:25,635
helping someone invite people
up for the movies
183
00:08:25,722 --> 00:08:28,812
for Fridays and Sunday evenings,
184
00:08:28,899 --> 00:08:32,642
and I did that for months
until I was introduced to Mary.
185
00:08:32,729 --> 00:08:36,080
She was ready for an assistant,
so I segued into that position.
186
00:08:36,211 --> 00:08:37,691
Hef came to me and said,
"I've hired this secretary
187
00:08:37,778 --> 00:08:41,433
that--she's your age,
and I think--
188
00:08:41,521 --> 00:08:42,696
I think you'll really like her,
and I thought
189
00:08:42,826 --> 00:08:44,959
that maybe you guys
could hang out."
190
00:08:45,089 --> 00:08:48,615
And I didn't think
that I was hired to spy on her.
191
00:08:48,702 --> 00:08:51,400
It segued into this thing
where Hef was saying,
192
00:08:51,531 --> 00:08:52,967
"What are you doing
Tuesday night?
193
00:08:53,097 --> 00:08:54,882
Why don't you and Sondra go do
something Tuesday night?"
194
00:08:54,969 --> 00:08:56,536
But he would say on Wednesdays,
195
00:08:56,666 --> 00:08:58,668
"Oh, what'd you girls do
last night?"
196
00:08:58,755 --> 00:09:02,063
It didn't feel bad to say,
"Oh, no, we had a great time"
197
00:09:02,193 --> 00:09:04,239
and kind of recant
what we had done.
198
00:09:04,326 --> 00:09:08,460
And it wasn't until it started
to feel a little bit invasive
199
00:09:08,591 --> 00:09:11,899
that I finally just had to say,
"I can't do this.
200
00:09:11,986 --> 00:09:14,684
I can't come back
and report to you."
201
00:09:14,771 --> 00:09:19,602
Was he jealous? Was he worried
that she was cheating on him?
202
00:09:19,689 --> 00:09:20,516
What do you think
he was worried about?
203
00:09:20,647 --> 00:09:23,737
All of the above. Attention.
204
00:09:23,824 --> 00:09:25,347
- Period?
- Yeah. Yeah, don't you think?
205
00:09:25,477 --> 00:09:26,957
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Yeah.
206
00:09:27,044 --> 00:09:28,916
It drove him nuts when he
thought of me having fun
207
00:09:29,046 --> 00:09:34,182
outside of his clutches,
you know?
208
00:09:34,269 --> 00:09:38,055
DiYeah. What he was doing wasg
otry to open up the timeslots.
209
00:09:38,186 --> 00:09:40,841
He had other things to do.
210
00:09:40,928 --> 00:09:43,191
Other people to do.
211
00:09:43,321 --> 00:09:46,673
And that was heartbreaking
for me, and she saw it all.
212
00:09:46,803 --> 00:09:49,110
You know, she saw the pain
that it caused me.
213
00:09:49,197 --> 00:09:50,764
She told me a great story
214
00:09:50,851 --> 00:09:52,287
I had completely forgotten about
on Thanksgiving.
215
00:09:52,374 --> 00:09:53,462
- What's the story? Tell me.
- On Thanksgiving.
216
00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:55,595
It's Thanksgiving,
and we're partying.
217
00:09:55,725 --> 00:09:58,206
We're cooking
in my little 2-bedroom,
218
00:09:58,336 --> 00:10:01,252
above-a-garage apartment.
219
00:10:01,339 --> 00:10:03,298
It's very innocent but very fun,
220
00:10:03,385 --> 00:10:07,519
and Mary called and said
Hef wanted to talk to Sondra.
221
00:10:07,607 --> 00:10:09,696
About five minutes
after you hung up from him,
222
00:10:09,783 --> 00:10:11,480
Mary called back and said,
"Hef's coming over.
223
00:10:11,611 --> 00:10:13,700
He wants to hang out
with you girls."
224
00:10:13,830 --> 00:10:17,704
He left whomever he was with
to be with me.
225
00:10:17,791 --> 00:10:22,317
So before Hef comes
a little car with a butler
226
00:10:22,404 --> 00:10:24,014
who brought in satin sheets.
- [laughs]
227
00:10:24,145 --> 00:10:26,669
He goes into my bedroom
and remakes my bed.
228
00:10:26,756 --> 00:10:28,976
- With his sheets?
- Yes.
229
00:10:29,063 --> 00:10:32,283
Yes, with these satin sheets.
So then a few minutes later,
230
00:10:32,370 --> 00:10:33,894
security knocked at the door,
231
00:10:33,981 --> 00:10:37,854
and Hef came into my bedroom
with Sondra.
232
00:10:37,985 --> 00:10:42,337
So I left, and about an hour,
Hef came back out.
233
00:10:42,424 --> 00:10:45,514
So I scurried around upstairs
and peeled her off the sheets.
234
00:10:45,645 --> 00:10:50,388
I have to say,
that just sounds so dark.
235
00:10:50,519 --> 00:10:53,000
- And it was disrespectful.
- It was all about him.
236
00:10:53,130 --> 00:10:57,352
It went
from being fun and adoring
237
00:10:57,439 --> 00:11:00,094
to being exhausting and abusive.
- Uh-huh.
238
00:11:04,446 --> 00:11:06,666
Lisa, now as you look back,
do you have any regrets
239
00:11:06,753 --> 00:11:08,145
about your participation?
240
00:11:08,276 --> 00:11:10,104
- I do not.
- No regrets?
241
00:11:10,191 --> 00:11:12,715
I do not. I have no regrets.
242
00:11:12,802 --> 00:11:17,764
I didn't have a-a perspective
of evil or wrongdoing
243
00:11:17,894 --> 00:11:19,461
at that point.
244
00:11:19,548 --> 00:11:22,116
Okay, but what is your response
to people today
245
00:11:22,203 --> 00:11:24,901
that say, "You worked for him.
You should have known this"?
246
00:11:24,988 --> 00:11:27,687
Well, I mean, look, it was
very homogenized then.
247
00:11:27,774 --> 00:11:29,993
It was made okay. It made--
248
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,342
It was okay for me to tell
my grandparents
249
00:11:31,429 --> 00:11:34,128
that I worked at Playboy.
250
00:11:34,215 --> 00:11:36,826
From an experience perspective,
it's easy to see it differently.
251
00:11:36,913 --> 00:11:42,614
With Sondra, I saw a hopeful
young woman in love.
252
00:11:42,702 --> 00:11:44,355
I loved him,
and I kept thinking,
253
00:11:44,442 --> 00:11:46,967
"He'll tire of this,
it'll change."
254
00:11:47,054 --> 00:11:49,883
And 'cause he was telling me,
"We'll be together forever,"
255
00:11:50,013 --> 00:11:53,625
and I was the first girl he'd
like to have a baby together.
256
00:11:53,713 --> 00:11:56,324
He didn't just walk in one day
and start doing, you know...
257
00:11:56,411 --> 00:11:57,542
- Yeah.
- ...monstrous things.
258
00:11:57,629 --> 00:11:59,849
- -It was--
- It was an evolution.
- Yeah.
259
00:11:59,936 --> 00:12:03,766
And the more she gave him,
the more he wanted...
260
00:12:03,897 --> 00:12:05,420
Yeah.
261
00:12:05,507 --> 00:12:07,422
...the more he needed,
the more he expected.
262
00:12:09,554 --> 00:12:12,819
This picture, I'm being silly.
- I'm--
- I'm happy.
263
00:12:12,906 --> 00:12:15,212
- Yeah.
- And in this picture,
264
00:12:15,299 --> 00:12:18,433
he's whispering in my ear,
isn't he?
265
00:12:18,563 --> 00:12:20,304
I wonder what he's saying.
[laughs]
266
00:12:20,435 --> 00:12:22,742
And then you look at my face
in that one.
267
00:12:22,829 --> 00:12:26,006
I'd been told to go up
and orchestrate an evening,
268
00:12:26,093 --> 00:12:30,706
and... [exhales deeply]
269
00:12:30,793 --> 00:12:35,885
Can you see it? It was like
the feeling I had every day.
270
00:12:35,972 --> 00:12:36,451
I could believe everything
was wonderful and I was happy,
271
00:12:36,538 --> 00:12:38,322
and I was in love.
272
00:12:38,409 --> 00:12:40,237
♪
273
00:12:40,324 --> 00:12:44,067
And then as
the evening approached...
274
00:12:44,154 --> 00:12:46,591
there it was.
275
00:12:46,678 --> 00:12:48,550
There was the whisper.
There was...
276
00:12:48,637 --> 00:12:51,727
his wishes
that needed to be met.
277
00:12:51,858 --> 00:12:56,210
The group sex--it was at least
five nights a week.
278
00:12:56,297 --> 00:12:58,778
They had a protocol.
279
00:12:58,865 --> 00:13:01,519
Everyone had their role
they played,
280
00:13:01,606 --> 00:13:02,912
but I wasn't in a romantic
relationship with this man.
281
00:13:02,999 --> 00:13:05,610
I was in a work relationship
with this man.
282
00:13:05,697 --> 00:13:08,831
And it isn't because I thought
I was above it all.
283
00:13:08,918 --> 00:13:10,790
It was because I knew
the parameters of my job
284
00:13:10,877 --> 00:13:13,009
that I knew was expected of me,
285
00:13:13,096 --> 00:13:17,492
and I knew
90% of it was business.
286
00:13:17,579 --> 00:13:19,755
Lisa, you were part
of the business side...
287
00:13:19,842 --> 00:13:22,105
- Yeah.
- ...of the Playboy brand.
288
00:13:22,192 --> 00:13:23,977
Can you tell me about
the really disturbing things
289
00:13:24,064 --> 00:13:26,153
that either happened to you
290
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,372
or that you noticed happened
to somebody else?
291
00:13:28,459 --> 00:13:29,721
Yeah, there were a couple
of times
292
00:13:29,809 --> 00:13:31,811
that I put myself in a position.
293
00:13:31,898 --> 00:13:35,684
When we were in the game house,
294
00:13:35,771 --> 00:13:39,949
Hef would ask me,
"Why don't you stay tonight?"
295
00:13:40,036 --> 00:13:43,083
I just told Hef that I--
I just couldn't do that.
296
00:13:43,170 --> 00:13:45,389
My daddy told me you don't
[bleep] where you eat.
297
00:13:45,476 --> 00:13:48,523
The buffer was
I wasn't a Playmate.
298
00:13:48,610 --> 00:13:51,178
I was with Mary,
and I had a job,
299
00:13:51,308 --> 00:13:54,311
and that was the easy way
for me.
300
00:13:54,398 --> 00:13:56,879
But one night, I was working,
301
00:13:57,010 --> 00:13:58,707
and Hef was still out
in the game house.
302
00:13:58,794 --> 00:14:00,883
I had a date that night.
303
00:14:00,970 --> 00:14:02,972
I wanted to go home,
but we couldn't go home
304
00:14:03,059 --> 00:14:04,408
until Hef went upstairs
for the evening.
305
00:14:04,539 --> 00:14:06,628
So while he was still
in the game house,
306
00:14:06,715 --> 00:14:09,500
I quickly ran upstairs
to the master bedroom,
307
00:14:09,587 --> 00:14:12,634
and there were other women there
that were showering
308
00:14:12,721 --> 00:14:14,941
and dressing, and I think
you were in the tub,
309
00:14:15,028 --> 00:14:17,073
and I sat on the edge
of the tub
310
00:14:17,204 --> 00:14:19,684
and hiked up my skirt
and shaved my legs.
311
00:14:19,771 --> 00:14:24,776
And unexpectedly, Hef came up
much sooner than I thought,
312
00:14:24,864 --> 00:14:28,084
and he came up behind me and...
313
00:14:28,171 --> 00:14:30,608
- [laughs] Oh, my God.
- I'm trying not to picture it.
314
00:14:30,695 --> 00:14:32,784
And he sort of squeezed
my shoulders and said,
315
00:14:32,872 --> 00:14:35,091
"Oh, my God.
You're joining us tonight?
316
00:14:35,222 --> 00:14:36,832
- Oh. [sighs]
- And I just instantly thought,
317
00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:38,921
"Oh, I put myself
in this position."
318
00:14:39,008 --> 00:14:43,056
That's where the decision
was made that
319
00:14:43,143 --> 00:14:46,015
I didn't wanna ever feel
like that again.
320
00:14:46,102 --> 00:14:49,018
I'm reading a lot
of these criticisms
321
00:14:49,105 --> 00:14:51,586
that say,
"Oh, I went to the Mansion.
322
00:14:51,673 --> 00:14:53,762
I never saw any
of that happening."
323
00:14:53,849 --> 00:14:57,200
The same people that--
that would tend to believe
324
00:14:57,287 --> 00:14:58,419
somebody in an office
or a different environment,
325
00:14:58,506 --> 00:15:01,030
but they're not believing
these women.
326
00:15:02,771 --> 00:15:04,164
- -WI don't think--
- I thinks? they're believing us,
327
00:15:04,251 --> 00:15:06,688
but they think we deserved it.
328
00:15:06,775 --> 00:15:08,908
Mm, that's really harsh, but...
329
00:15:12,476 --> 00:15:13,521
Why wouldBecause--rve that?
WhBecause Playboy's Playboy.at?
330
00:15:13,651 --> 00:15:15,958
It's sexual. It's not a convent.
What do you expect?
331
00:15:16,045 --> 00:15:18,265
I mean, I also am getting
backlash from this.
332
00:15:18,352 --> 00:15:20,484
"Why did she wait so long?
I stand by Hefner."
333
00:15:20,571 --> 00:15:22,834
And to come after us,
we didn't do the harm.
334
00:15:22,965 --> 00:15:24,401
It was done to us
335
00:15:24,488 --> 00:15:27,187
and excused the person
who did it.
336
00:15:27,274 --> 00:15:31,843
You have had two
very different experiences.
337
00:15:31,931 --> 00:15:35,064
Lisa, can you just sum up
why you decided to come forward
338
00:15:35,195 --> 00:15:38,720
and support Sondra
during this experience for her?
339
00:15:38,807 --> 00:15:41,462
- Because she is my friend.
- She asked me to.
340
00:15:41,549 --> 00:15:43,986
Every woman should have a Lisa
in their life.
341
00:15:44,073 --> 00:15:47,033
Everyone should be more
supportive of women
342
00:15:47,163 --> 00:15:47,990
and their story.
343
00:15:48,077 --> 00:15:49,949
[sniffles]
344
00:15:53,865 --> 00:15:55,606
Sondra, you were so brave
345
00:15:55,693 --> 00:15:59,001
to share so many of your
traumatic experiences with us,
346
00:15:59,088 --> 00:16:01,090
but I know that one of
the reasons you did that
347
00:16:01,177 --> 00:16:03,049
is in the hope
that other people
348
00:16:03,136 --> 00:16:05,007
would share their stories, too.
349
00:16:05,094 --> 00:16:07,575
And there's one other woman
that's joining us...
350
00:16:07,662 --> 00:16:08,663
- [sniffles]
- ...that has had
351
00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:10,360
some very similar experiences--
352
00:16:10,491 --> 00:16:12,797
Susie Krabacher.
353
00:16:12,884 --> 00:16:14,669
- Hi. [laughs]
- [gasps]
354
00:16:14,756 --> 00:16:16,758
- You're--
- You're grown up now.
355
00:16:16,845 --> 00:16:19,674
- It doesn't seem real.
- No, no, no. [laughs]
356
00:16:19,761 --> 00:16:22,242
I've only been visualizing
you guys just as you were.
357
00:16:22,329 --> 00:16:25,288
I know. You still scare me
to death, you're so pretty.
358
00:16:25,375 --> 00:16:26,811
- [laughter]
- Stop.
359
00:16:26,898 --> 00:16:29,597
Don't be afraid.
Don't be afraid. [laughs]
360
00:16:29,684 --> 00:16:31,860
- Hi.
- I'm so glad you're okay.
361
00:16:31,947 --> 00:16:33,470
I'm okay. I'm okay.
362
00:16:33,557 --> 00:16:34,776
I'm so glad you're okay
and strong.
363
00:16:34,863 --> 00:16:36,647
And I'm so glad you are, too.
364
00:16:36,734 --> 00:16:38,954
I was just talking
in the makeup room.
365
00:16:39,041 --> 00:16:41,957
I never could come up to you
and talk to you
366
00:16:42,088 --> 00:16:44,481
because you were so beautiful
and so intimidating
367
00:16:44,568 --> 00:16:46,222
and so perfect.
- Oh, I'm so sorry.
368
00:16:46,309 --> 00:16:49,878
No! I just... I'm so amazed
that you pulled off
369
00:16:49,965 --> 00:16:52,489
being so strong
during all of that.
370
00:16:52,576 --> 00:16:55,710
None of us had any idea.
371
00:16:55,797 --> 00:16:58,017
Yeah. I was hiding it.
372
00:16:58,104 --> 00:16:59,105
If we had only talked,
can you imagine?
373
00:16:59,192 --> 00:17:00,932
Yeah. Yeah.
374
00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:02,934
- It's been many years...
- Yeah.
375
00:17:03,022 --> 00:17:04,458
...since the two of you
have seen each other in person.
376
00:17:04,545 --> 00:17:06,155
- How many years? 20 years?
- Well, we were girls.
377
00:17:06,242 --> 00:17:08,679
- Oh, it's longer than that.
- We were girls. We--
378
00:17:08,766 --> 00:17:10,420
- 35?
- 35 years, maybe.
379
00:17:10,507 --> 00:17:12,466
- 35 years.
- BOTH: Yeah.
380
00:17:12,553 --> 00:17:14,033
Can you first tell me, Susie,
a little bit
381
00:17:14,163 --> 00:17:15,556
about what brought you
to Playboy
382
00:17:15,643 --> 00:17:19,386
and what--what your story was
back then.
383
00:17:19,473 --> 00:17:23,520
Well, I started Playboy
because I needed the money.
384
00:17:23,607 --> 00:17:27,394
I was making $3.25 an hour
at my job,
385
00:17:27,481 --> 00:17:31,180
and I was approached by
a photographer from "Playboy,"
386
00:17:31,267 --> 00:17:33,008
and you know, at first,
I said, "Yes, you know,
387
00:17:33,095 --> 00:17:35,489
this sounds great,"
but then when the offer came
388
00:17:35,619 --> 00:17:39,667
to actually go to the Mansion,
it became really real.
389
00:17:39,797 --> 00:17:43,105
I had this moment as I was
going through those gates,
390
00:17:43,192 --> 00:17:45,064
you know, I can run now.
391
00:17:45,151 --> 00:17:47,283
[laughter]
392
00:17:47,370 --> 00:17:52,767
I did believe that
what I was doing was wrong,
393
00:17:52,854 --> 00:17:54,421
but I thought, you know,
God's gonna forgive me.
394
00:17:54,508 --> 00:17:57,163
I need this opportunity,
and I'll never be able
395
00:17:57,250 --> 00:17:58,990
to make this kind of money.
396
00:17:59,121 --> 00:18:02,472
I was Playmate of the Month
of May 1983.
397
00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:05,127
I was staying
at the Playboy Mansion.
398
00:18:05,214 --> 00:18:09,088
It was all very intimidating
and really new.
399
00:18:09,175 --> 00:18:12,439
I felt safe in my room,
and that's where I stayed.
400
00:18:12,526 --> 00:18:17,400
Hef--he was telling me,
"Susie, I've heard that
401
00:18:17,487 --> 00:18:19,750
you're nervous and that you've
been staying in your room,
402
00:18:19,837 --> 00:18:23,450
but I want you to know
it's safe here."
403
00:18:23,537 --> 00:18:25,887
And I'm thinking to myself,
you know, okay,
404
00:18:25,974 --> 00:18:30,326
I've never had a strong
father figure in my life,
405
00:18:30,457 --> 00:18:32,285
and I don't know if
you knew it, but I--
406
00:18:32,372 --> 00:18:34,678
my grandfather was a pedophile.
- I did not know that.
407
00:18:34,809 --> 00:18:36,245
And I was his victim
from 4 years old...
408
00:18:36,332 --> 00:18:39,205
- Oh, my God. I'm so sorry.
- ...to 8,
409
00:18:39,292 --> 00:18:43,339
And so I'm thinking, finally
I have a grandfather figure
410
00:18:43,426 --> 00:18:46,473
that's nice and safe.
411
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,955
One day, I was talking to Hef,
and I said, "You know,
412
00:18:51,042 --> 00:18:53,871
- I just--
- I-I need to know about my future.
413
00:18:53,958 --> 00:18:56,831
Will I have to go home?
Or you know, what will I do?"
414
00:18:56,918 --> 00:19:00,008
I trusted him so much.
415
00:19:00,095 --> 00:19:03,664
He really made me feel like
he cared for me...
416
00:19:03,751 --> 00:19:06,101
- Mm-hmm.
- ...as, you know,
417
00:19:06,188 --> 00:19:07,537
as like a family member.
418
00:19:07,668 --> 00:19:09,496
You were special.
Yeah, you were special.
419
00:19:09,583 --> 00:19:12,455
So he gave me a pill.
I don't even remember
420
00:19:12,542 --> 00:19:15,719
ending my sentence,
and I woke up,
421
00:19:15,850 --> 00:19:17,982
and then, you know,
I'm coming out of it.
422
00:19:18,069 --> 00:19:20,376
I'm coming out
of what's actually happened.
423
00:19:20,463 --> 00:19:22,117
This is happening.
This is not a dream.
424
00:19:22,204 --> 00:19:25,816
This is happening. Am I--
Am I a rape victim again?
425
00:19:25,903 --> 00:19:27,949
Could this possibly
be happening?
426
00:19:28,079 --> 00:19:31,300
The next day, I said,
"I need to talk to Marilyn."
427
00:19:31,387 --> 00:19:34,869
So I went into her office,
and I just broke down.
428
00:19:34,999 --> 00:19:39,395
I was so ashamed
and felt so gross.
429
00:19:39,482 --> 00:19:42,311
All I could say is,
"He did it to me,"
430
00:19:42,398 --> 00:19:46,402
and then she said,
"Don't worry. It's okay,"
431
00:19:46,489 --> 00:19:50,885
and so I'm like, "Okay,
so it's okay. It's okay.
432
00:19:50,972 --> 00:19:54,105
It's okay. It's okay,"
433
00:19:54,236 --> 00:19:56,238
and then I went back
to the makeup room,
434
00:19:56,325 --> 00:19:59,720
and the entire time,
you're being told,
435
00:19:59,807 --> 00:20:01,722
"Well, you know, you could be
Playmate of the Year,
436
00:20:01,809 --> 00:20:05,204
and this is so important,
and the money--
437
00:20:05,334 --> 00:20:06,814
your life will be
changed forever."
438
00:20:06,901 --> 00:20:08,468
Ever, yeah. [sniffles]
439
00:20:08,555 --> 00:20:10,470
"You'll never have to worry
about money again."
440
00:20:10,557 --> 00:20:13,560
And you're, like, what?
What's gonna happen after this?
441
00:20:13,647 --> 00:20:15,649
If I'm not Playmate of the Year,
I can't go back home.
442
00:20:15,736 --> 00:20:18,042
I mean, at least I couldn't.
443
00:20:18,129 --> 00:20:19,827
I think a lot of girls did
have their family's support,
444
00:20:19,914 --> 00:20:25,136
but I had nowhere else to go.
445
00:20:25,267 --> 00:20:26,877
He was always nice
in front of other people.
446
00:20:26,964 --> 00:20:28,879
Yes, yes.
447
00:20:28,966 --> 00:20:30,838
I didn't like going
to the parties.
448
00:20:30,925 --> 00:20:33,275
Boy, did I get in trouble
for that. That lasted--
449
00:20:33,406 --> 00:20:35,190
Oh, yeah, if you didn't
socialize, ooh.
450
00:20:35,321 --> 00:20:37,453
Yeah. It's like, "Oh, well,
just go to the party.
451
00:20:37,540 --> 00:20:40,543
Have your meal."
That's not what it was.
452
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:42,241
Socialize is flirting,
older guys.
453
00:20:42,328 --> 00:20:44,025
Older men.
454
00:20:44,112 --> 00:20:45,809
Not anywhere near our age range.
455
00:20:45,940 --> 00:20:47,942
And they said
inappropriate things also.
456
00:20:48,029 --> 00:20:51,075
- They said inappropriate things.
- Touched you.
457
00:20:51,162 --> 00:20:54,296
Like, uh,
"How would you like a 36DD?"
458
00:20:54,383 --> 00:20:57,299
He wants to buy me
breast augmentation.
459
00:20:57,386 --> 00:20:59,867
- I just met the man.
- Yeah, yeah, right.
460
00:20:59,997 --> 00:21:01,999
This is unbelievable because
what you're describing
461
00:21:02,086 --> 00:21:05,438
is, uh, kind of a circle
of people
462
00:21:05,525 --> 00:21:07,178
that expected you
to be sexually available...
463
00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:09,659
- Uh-huh.
- ...for these men.
464
00:21:09,746 --> 00:21:12,183
- Is that fair to say?
- Day and night.
465
00:21:12,314 --> 00:21:16,623
So there was
this uncomfortable experience
466
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:19,103
that a lot of women
were traumatized by,
467
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:21,062
and yet if you talk about it
to each other,
468
00:21:21,149 --> 00:21:22,803
then it makes it real.
469
00:21:22,890 --> 00:21:24,718
It's a problem,
and it becomes a problem, see?
470
00:21:24,805 --> 00:21:25,588
- It becomes a problem.
- Yeah.
471
00:21:25,675 --> 00:21:28,069
Okay. What did you do instead?
472
00:21:28,156 --> 00:21:30,289
We talked about everything else.
473
00:21:32,291 --> 00:21:35,250
You never really talked
about what happened in there.
474
00:21:35,381 --> 00:21:38,253
Susie, you wrote about
your experience 25 years later
475
00:21:38,340 --> 00:21:40,386
in your memoir.
476
00:21:40,516 --> 00:21:41,996
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
477
00:21:42,083 --> 00:21:44,128
This is important.
478
00:21:44,215 --> 00:21:48,785
Sondra, you heard
that Susie wrote a book.
479
00:21:48,872 --> 00:21:50,309
It helped me...
480
00:21:50,396 --> 00:21:51,527
- Really?
- ...come to terms
481
00:21:51,614 --> 00:21:53,355
with what I had, yeah.
482
00:21:53,442 --> 00:21:54,443
And you hadn't talked
before then.
483
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:57,228
Yeah. Yeah.-So you had no idea...
484
00:21:57,316 --> 00:21:58,404
- None.
- ...Susie, that you were
485
00:21:58,491 --> 00:21:59,796
the catalyst...
- No!
486
00:21:59,883 --> 00:22:01,407
...for Sondra deciding
to come forward.
487
00:22:01,494 --> 00:22:03,322
- No, and...
- My God. [laughs]
488
00:22:03,409 --> 00:22:04,671
It was one of the--
one of the things
489
00:22:04,758 --> 00:22:06,586
that just triggered me,
490
00:22:06,673 --> 00:22:10,067
- and, uh, I just--
- I didn't want the girls to think
491
00:22:10,154 --> 00:22:12,069
that I was condoning
these things.
492
00:22:12,156 --> 00:22:16,335
Um...it's still a phenomenon
to me that
493
00:22:16,422 --> 00:22:18,815
the very girls that we know
were involved
494
00:22:18,902 --> 00:22:23,429
in this kind of activity
will not, um,
495
00:22:23,516 --> 00:22:25,474
hold him accountable for it.
496
00:22:25,561 --> 00:22:28,608
But the thing is, it was not
that we got ourself
497
00:22:28,695 --> 00:22:30,261
completely into it.
498
00:22:30,349 --> 00:22:31,611
We thought
we were doing something
499
00:22:31,698 --> 00:22:35,266
that would better our lives.
500
00:22:35,397 --> 00:22:37,834
I felt like this was--
this was it for me.
501
00:22:37,921 --> 00:22:39,880
I have such a huge amount
of empathy
502
00:22:39,967 --> 00:22:41,490
because it could have been me.
- I went to--
- I went to--
503
00:22:41,577 --> 00:22:43,187
Could've been anybody.
504
00:22:43,274 --> 00:22:45,015
I went to the Mansion
when I was 20.
505
00:22:49,237 --> 00:22:50,717
One of the amazing parts
of doing this special
506
00:22:50,804 --> 00:22:53,197
is hearing the feedback
from people
507
00:22:53,328 --> 00:22:54,982
that have seen Sondra's story,
508
00:22:55,112 --> 00:22:57,288
and, Audrey, you're somebody
that came forward
509
00:22:57,376 --> 00:22:58,594
with your own story.
510
00:22:58,725 --> 00:23:00,117
So can you tell me
a little bit about
511
00:23:00,248 --> 00:23:01,684
what brought you to Playboy
to begin with?
512
00:23:01,771 --> 00:23:05,035
Well, when I was younger,
I wanted to model.
513
00:23:05,122 --> 00:23:09,126
So everyone told me
I was not tall enough.
514
00:23:09,257 --> 00:23:10,998
So I thought, hmm,
well, maybe "Playboy."
515
00:23:11,085 --> 00:23:14,436
And I sent my pictures in
when I turned 18,
516
00:23:14,523 --> 00:23:17,483
and they sent me a letter
accepting me,
517
00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:19,528
and I was thrilled.
518
00:23:19,615 --> 00:23:23,793
I flew out to the Mansion,
got to stay in the guest house
519
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,056
and meet Hef.
520
00:23:26,143 --> 00:23:28,929
So you were a teenager.
Did it feel safe to be with him?
521
00:23:29,016 --> 00:23:31,148
- Yeah, very.
- You felt safe?
522
00:23:31,279 --> 00:23:33,194
Yeah. He was married,
number one.
523
00:23:33,281 --> 00:23:36,110
He was married to Kimberley
at the time,
524
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,200
and I read it in an article.
525
00:23:39,330 --> 00:23:41,507
He had plenty of women,
but through his marriages,
526
00:23:41,594 --> 00:23:43,683
he was always faithful.
527
00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:46,076
I do.
528
00:23:46,163 --> 00:23:49,950
As you reached into the '90s,
it was a big, big change.
529
00:23:50,037 --> 00:23:53,083
Kimberley was the lady
of the house,
530
00:23:53,170 --> 00:23:54,998
and the partying kinda ended.
531
00:23:55,129 --> 00:23:56,173
Kimberley's presence
was definitely known
532
00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:58,001
around the Mansion.
533
00:23:58,088 --> 00:24:00,526
Hef did not hit
on any of the Playmates.
534
00:24:00,613 --> 00:24:03,790
As far as talking to him,
535
00:24:03,877 --> 00:24:05,922
we were told that's a good way
to get yourself blacklisted
536
00:24:06,009 --> 00:24:08,359
from the Mansion.
537
00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:09,883
You know, if he--if we saw him
coming one way,
538
00:24:10,013 --> 00:24:11,711
we'd go the other way.
539
00:24:11,798 --> 00:24:16,150
So it's 1994. You came out
to shoot for "Playboy."
540
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,804
- Mm-hmm.
- What you thought would be
541
00:24:17,891 --> 00:24:19,762
potentially a centerfold.
542
00:24:19,893 --> 00:24:21,938
- Yes.
- And then what happened?
543
00:24:22,025 --> 00:24:26,595
We did shoot for a day or two,
544
00:24:26,726 --> 00:24:29,468
and Kimberley wasn't there.
She was skiing.
545
00:24:29,555 --> 00:24:31,295
- Hef, though, was there.
- Yeah.
546
00:24:31,382 --> 00:24:32,949
- Okay.
- I spoke with him.
547
00:24:33,036 --> 00:24:36,387
Um, that's when he invited me
to his room.
548
00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:38,651
He said,
"I have some photos of you
549
00:24:38,781 --> 00:24:41,654
you might wanna take a look at."
550
00:24:41,784 --> 00:24:42,829
Everybody left,
and I was sitting
551
00:24:42,916 --> 00:24:44,570
at the bottom of the stairs
552
00:24:44,657 --> 00:24:47,442
deciding whether or not
if I should go upstairs.
553
00:24:47,529 --> 00:24:50,271
But then I'm thinking,
554
00:24:50,401 --> 00:24:52,491
you only live once.
This is my opportunity.
555
00:24:52,578 --> 00:24:55,885
This is my chance
to make connections
556
00:24:56,016 --> 00:24:59,846
and get out there
and go in my career and...
557
00:24:59,976 --> 00:25:06,156
I had no thoughts in my mind
that anything would happen.
558
00:25:06,243 --> 00:25:07,810
So you decided to go upstairs.
559
00:25:07,897 --> 00:25:09,986
What happened?
560
00:25:10,073 --> 00:25:13,250
He showed me the pictures of me.
561
00:25:13,337 --> 00:25:15,688
They were right there
by the door,
562
00:25:15,775 --> 00:25:18,342
and then immediately,
he walked me over to the bed,
563
00:25:18,429 --> 00:25:21,215
and I sat down.
564
00:25:21,302 --> 00:25:23,434
He was to the right of me,
565
00:25:23,565 --> 00:25:26,220
and he pulled out a joint
to split it,
566
00:25:26,350 --> 00:25:30,006
and now I'm starting
to get speechless.
567
00:25:30,093 --> 00:25:32,443
I'm not talking. I'm like, what?
This is all happening so fast.
568
00:25:32,574 --> 00:25:33,706
- Yeah.
- -What's--
- And he gave it to me,
569
00:25:33,793 --> 00:25:36,012
and then he's pulling down
his pants,
570
00:25:36,099 --> 00:25:39,929
- and I-I just started--
- I froze.
571
00:25:40,016 --> 00:25:44,281
And...he got on top of me.
572
00:25:44,412 --> 00:25:45,848
[whispers] I'm sorry.
573
00:25:45,935 --> 00:25:49,983
And, um, I just froze.
574
00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:52,768
Did he have sex with you
without your consent?
575
00:25:52,855 --> 00:25:54,553
Yes, he did.
I didn't say anything.
576
00:25:54,683 --> 00:25:56,032
I didn't give him permission.
577
00:25:56,163 --> 00:25:58,208
What was I gonna do?
578
00:25:58,295 --> 00:25:59,949
If I said no, would he
have stopped? I don't know.
579
00:26:00,036 --> 00:26:02,604
- I just--
- But no. He wouldn't have.
580
00:26:02,735 --> 00:26:05,564
I laid there,
and when he was done,
581
00:26:05,651 --> 00:26:09,655
he walked me down
to the guest house.
582
00:26:09,742 --> 00:26:10,917
I didn't know what to think
that night.
583
00:26:11,047 --> 00:26:13,441
- I just--
- I cried myself to sleep.
584
00:26:13,528 --> 00:26:15,356
So, you know,
this isn't a fairy tale.
585
00:26:15,443 --> 00:26:17,184
This isn't what I signed up for.
586
00:26:17,271 --> 00:26:19,708
What are you feeling right now,
Sondra?
587
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:22,058
Lots of girls have ambitions.
Many have ambitions.
588
00:26:22,145 --> 00:26:24,321
If that's what she was thinking,
589
00:26:24,408 --> 00:26:26,933
it didn't give him the right
to do what he did.
590
00:26:27,063 --> 00:26:29,718
The next day, I had a shoot,
591
00:26:29,805 --> 00:26:31,372
and I couldn't move.
I didn't get out of the bed.
592
00:26:31,459 --> 00:26:34,505
And I-I didn't go,
and the makeup artist, Missy,
593
00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:36,856
came at the time
and to check on me,
594
00:26:36,943 --> 00:26:39,293
and I said, "I just don't--
I just don't feel
595
00:26:39,380 --> 00:26:41,774
I wanna do this right now,"
596
00:26:41,861 --> 00:26:44,080
And they said, "Okay,"
and then they flew me home.
597
00:26:44,167 --> 00:26:46,474
Did you tell anybody that
this had just happened to you?
598
00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:48,389
No.
599
00:26:48,476 --> 00:26:50,478
I-I didn't know what to think.
I was scared.
600
00:26:50,565 --> 00:26:51,914
I thought I was gonna get
in trouble.
601
00:26:52,045 --> 00:26:53,960
- Yeah.
- His house, his power,
602
00:26:55,614 --> 00:26:56,702
She should've known better,
his enterprright?d be quiet--
603
00:26:56,789 --> 00:27:00,183
Right. So I had to just
shut my mouth and go home,
604
00:27:00,270 --> 00:27:03,099
and I did, and then I got
a letter in the mail--
605
00:27:03,186 --> 00:27:04,971
a termination letter.
606
00:27:09,628 --> 00:27:11,804
There was a moment,
wasn't there,
607
00:27:11,891 --> 00:27:14,328
where Kimberley,
his wife at the time,
608
00:27:14,415 --> 00:27:16,852
reached out to you?
- She did.
609
00:27:16,939 --> 00:27:18,419
What happened?
610
00:27:18,506 --> 00:27:20,813
She called my house phone,
and she's like,
611
00:27:20,943 --> 00:27:25,382
"Um, I heard that you were up
in the room with Hugh,"
612
00:27:25,513 --> 00:27:27,428
and she asked me
if I went up there willingly
613
00:27:27,558 --> 00:27:30,649
or did he invite me?
614
00:27:30,736 --> 00:27:33,390
Yeah, of course he invited me,
but I didn't tell her that.
615
00:27:33,521 --> 00:27:35,479
I didn't wanna get him
in trouble.
616
00:27:35,566 --> 00:27:36,524
- I didn't wanna get him--
- You didn't wanna get the man
617
00:27:36,655 --> 00:27:38,569
that raped you in trouble?
- Yeah. Yeah.
618
00:27:38,657 --> 00:27:41,311
I mean, that is so crazy.
619
00:27:41,398 --> 00:27:44,401
He didn't care about me or...
620
00:27:44,488 --> 00:27:46,186
what happened to me,
621
00:27:46,273 --> 00:27:48,188
and I was protecting him.
622
00:27:48,275 --> 00:27:50,407
After this happened to you,
623
00:27:50,494 --> 00:27:52,714
did you ever see Hugh Hefner
again?
624
00:27:52,801 --> 00:27:55,935
No. That was it.
I was thrown away,
625
00:27:56,022 --> 00:27:58,285
and I shut my mouth.
626
00:27:58,372 --> 00:28:02,637
Can you describe
how that experience back then
627
00:28:02,768 --> 00:28:06,032
changed your life
and your image of yourself?
628
00:28:06,162 --> 00:28:08,077
It does change you,
especially the way
629
00:28:08,208 --> 00:28:11,820
you allow men to treat you sexually.
630
00:28:11,907 --> 00:28:15,694
And it took me a long time
to figure it all out.
631
00:28:15,824 --> 00:28:19,262
Never let a man
ever disrespected me.
632
00:28:19,349 --> 00:28:21,874
He altered your destiny
for your life.
633
00:28:21,961 --> 00:28:24,703
He altered it,
and not in a good way.
634
00:28:27,706 --> 00:28:30,404
Audrey, can you tell me
what it was like for you
635
00:28:30,491 --> 00:28:32,667
to try to track down Sondra?
636
00:28:32,754 --> 00:28:36,453
It was just divine intervention.
637
00:28:36,584 --> 00:28:39,108
A friend of mine said,
638
00:28:39,195 --> 00:28:41,632
"Audrey, they're doing something
about Playboy,"
639
00:28:41,763 --> 00:28:43,939
and then I saw her,
and I was like, oh, my God.
640
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:47,247
This could be the chance
that I get to...
641
00:28:47,334 --> 00:28:49,162
- Yes.
- ...to tell what he did to me.
642
00:28:49,249 --> 00:28:51,555
- Yeah.
- I just said,
643
00:28:51,686 --> 00:28:53,514
"I have to talk to her. I have
to tell her what happened.
644
00:28:53,601 --> 00:28:55,516
She needs to hear this."
645
00:28:55,603 --> 00:28:58,693
Sondra, what did it feel like
the moment
646
00:28:58,780 --> 00:29:01,174
that you got that phone message?
647
00:29:01,261 --> 00:29:03,872
It was a voicemail I got,
and listening to it,
648
00:29:04,003 --> 00:29:05,961
I was stunned. It was like
649
00:29:06,048 --> 00:29:06,919
the air had been sucked
out of me,
650
00:29:07,006 --> 00:29:08,268
and--and I was shaking.
651
00:29:08,355 --> 00:29:10,226
I called her immediately,
652
00:29:10,357 --> 00:29:13,403
and she just started talking,
and she told me the story,
653
00:29:13,490 --> 00:29:15,754
and... [sniffles] and I told her
it wasn't her fault,
654
00:29:15,841 --> 00:29:19,583
and she started crying,
and then I started crying.
655
00:29:19,670 --> 00:29:21,672
- It--
- It touched me so deeply.
656
00:29:21,803 --> 00:29:24,110
The whole reason why
I came forward
657
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,894
was being brought to me
and showing me
658
00:29:26,025 --> 00:29:28,114
that I was doing
the right thing.
659
00:29:28,244 --> 00:29:31,900
You just believed me instantly,
and that just felt so rewarding.
660
00:29:31,987 --> 00:29:35,295
Deep, deep, deep in my soul,
I was just... [sighs deeply]
661
00:29:35,382 --> 00:29:37,645
Sondra, you start the show.
662
00:29:37,732 --> 00:29:40,039
One of the very first things
you say
663
00:29:40,126 --> 00:29:42,432
in the very first episode while
you're getting miked up is...
664
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:44,130
I'm not doing this
for 15 minutes of fame.
665
00:29:44,260 --> 00:29:45,784
I mean, who would wanna
throw themselves
666
00:29:45,871 --> 00:29:47,829
under the train for that?
667
00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:50,614
And you're kind of making fun
of it 'cause you're not here...
668
00:29:50,701 --> 00:29:52,660
- No.
- ...for publicity.
669
00:29:52,747 --> 00:29:54,357
- No.
- You're not here for publicity.
670
00:29:54,444 --> 00:29:56,055
No, freedom.
671
00:29:56,142 --> 00:29:57,317
- Freedom.
- Freedom.
672
00:29:57,404 --> 00:29:58,274
- Yeah.
- What does that mean?
673
00:29:58,405 --> 00:29:59,798
Freedom from keeping
674
00:29:59,928 --> 00:30:02,583
such a dirty secret inside
for so long.
675
00:30:02,713 --> 00:30:05,804
Freedom for everyone out there
who is having to...
676
00:30:05,891 --> 00:30:07,283
- Yeah.
- ...to just stop and speak up
677
00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:09,764
and say no and--and...
678
00:30:09,851 --> 00:30:12,158
And say, "You're not getting
away with this."
679
00:30:12,245 --> 00:30:14,203
Whether you're dead or not,
680
00:30:14,290 --> 00:30:16,205
you're not getting away
with this.
681
00:30:16,292 --> 00:30:17,859
You were part of a sisterhood,
as you called it,
682
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:20,862
with the other Playmates.
- [sniffles] Yeah.
683
00:30:20,949 --> 00:30:24,387
Do you think it's possible that
you're now starting a movement
684
00:30:24,474 --> 00:30:26,650
with a new sisterhood?
- Well, I hope so.
685
00:30:26,737 --> 00:30:29,262
Women coming together for women
and holding each other up,
686
00:30:29,349 --> 00:30:32,178
whether it's the good times
or the bad times.
687
00:30:32,308 --> 00:30:35,181
I can't even imagine
how strong you are
688
00:30:35,268 --> 00:30:37,923
and how brave you are and...
689
00:30:38,053 --> 00:30:40,229
- See? [laughs]
- I endured one night of it.
690
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,536
- You endured years of it.
- [sniffles] Yeah.
691
00:30:42,666 --> 00:30:45,278
I-I can't even imagine
what that
692
00:30:45,365 --> 00:30:47,933
would do to you mentally
and--and spiritually.
693
00:30:48,063 --> 00:30:50,457
Yeah. Thank you.
694
00:30:50,587 --> 00:30:54,200
I wish I had the courage to say
something a long time ago.
695
00:30:54,287 --> 00:30:56,202
You have the courage today.
696
00:30:56,289 --> 00:30:57,725
- Yeah. Yeah.
- I do. I do.
697
00:31:03,296 --> 00:31:04,863
Here we are, left with these
stories from these women,
698
00:31:04,993 --> 00:31:06,734
and what do we do with it now?
699
00:31:06,821 --> 00:31:08,823
And we wanted to bring
somebody onboard
700
00:31:08,910 --> 00:31:12,261
that can give us some insight,
and that's Dr. Kate Balestrieri,
701
00:31:12,348 --> 00:31:15,308
and I wanna ask you first,
Dr. Kate,
702
00:31:15,395 --> 00:31:17,397
there's a real...confusion
for a lot of us
703
00:31:17,484 --> 00:31:19,355
that were part
of the Playboy family
704
00:31:19,442 --> 00:31:23,490
because we feel on one hand
that we're proud
705
00:31:23,577 --> 00:31:25,231
of being able to powerful
in our femininity...
706
00:31:25,318 --> 00:31:27,189
- Yeah.
- ...and our sexuality
707
00:31:27,276 --> 00:31:28,669
and take control of that.
- Yeah.
708
00:31:28,756 --> 00:31:30,497
But the other part,
especially after watching
709
00:31:30,584 --> 00:31:34,544
what has transpired
over the last 10 weeks--
710
00:31:34,631 --> 00:31:37,330
there's a part of me that feels
really awful about it.
711
00:31:37,417 --> 00:31:41,029
In reality, human beings
are incredibly messy,
712
00:31:41,116 --> 00:31:43,249
and we're complicated
and we're dimensional,
713
00:31:43,379 --> 00:31:46,643
so there's room for there to be
really positive aspects
714
00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:49,472
of anyone's experience there,
as well as really
715
00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:52,562
terrifying and really horrifying
experiences and elements of it,
716
00:31:52,649 --> 00:31:55,696
because if they were all bad,
people would have left.
717
00:31:55,826 --> 00:31:56,915
- Yeah.
- Right?
718
00:31:58,829 --> 00:32:01,441
sit there and take that
- over and over and over againt
719
00:32:01,528 --> 00:32:03,878
if there weren't
some positive aspects
720
00:32:03,965 --> 00:32:05,488
to being a part of this world.
721
00:32:05,619 --> 00:32:08,317
You know, it's easy for people
to judge
722
00:32:08,404 --> 00:32:09,492
when you're not
in that situation.
723
00:32:09,579 --> 00:32:11,407
Yeah.
724
00:32:11,494 --> 00:32:16,151
I wanna understand why people
would hear these stories
725
00:32:16,238 --> 00:32:17,936
and either not believe
the stories,
726
00:32:18,023 --> 00:32:22,679
or believe the stories and
still choose to be critical.
727
00:32:22,810 --> 00:32:25,595
Let's get to a tweet
from Cooper Hefner.
728
00:32:25,682 --> 00:32:27,206
And for those that don't know,
729
00:32:27,293 --> 00:32:30,209
Cooper Hefner is Hugh Hefner's
son with Kimberley.
730
00:32:30,339 --> 00:32:35,344
So, um, here's what he had
to say on Twitter.
731
00:32:35,431 --> 00:32:37,738
"Some may not approve
of the life my dad chose,
732
00:32:37,825 --> 00:32:39,783
but my father was not a liar.
733
00:32:39,870 --> 00:32:42,134
However unconventional,
734
00:32:42,221 --> 00:32:45,006
he was sincere in his approach
and lived honestly.
735
00:32:45,093 --> 00:32:47,617
He was generous in nature
and cared deeply for people.
736
00:32:47,704 --> 00:32:49,402
These salacious stories
737
00:32:49,489 --> 00:32:54,711
are a case study
of regret becoming revenge."
738
00:32:54,842 --> 00:32:58,672
I... [sighs] He was not in bed
with us.
739
00:32:58,759 --> 00:33:00,674
He has no idea
what he's talking about.
740
00:33:00,761 --> 00:33:02,719
He wasn't there.
741
00:33:02,850 --> 00:33:08,464
What happened to me was not,
um, generous, kind.
742
00:33:08,595 --> 00:33:10,771
- No.
- It was nothing but evil.
743
00:33:10,858 --> 00:33:12,816
Yeah.
744
00:33:12,947 --> 00:33:14,731
Here's one of my favorites,
745
00:33:14,818 --> 00:33:16,342
and I've seen this a bunch online.
746
00:33:16,429 --> 00:33:17,691
"Hef never did anything bad
to me."
747
00:33:17,821 --> 00:33:19,345
Yeah.
748
00:33:19,475 --> 00:33:23,653
And to me, that is
a strange argument.
749
00:33:23,740 --> 00:33:27,396
Just because somebody never
did anything bad to you,
750
00:33:27,483 --> 00:33:30,182
doesn't mean he didn't do
something bad to her.
751
00:33:30,269 --> 00:33:33,489
- He targeted vulnerable women.
- Mm-hmm.
752
00:33:33,576 --> 00:33:37,058
It was almost like he found
a niche in your armor somehow
753
00:33:37,145 --> 00:33:38,625
to put upon you.
- Yeah, well, yeah,
754
00:33:38,712 --> 00:33:41,323
we were easy to control,
easy to manipulate.
755
00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:44,674
There's a document referred
to now as "the Manifesto"--
756
00:33:44,761 --> 00:33:48,287
the Hefner Manifesto--
that is referred to
757
00:33:48,374 --> 00:33:52,595
by a lot of side commentators
about this show.
758
00:33:52,682 --> 00:33:57,948
"The girl next door should smell
like soap and be like a bunny."
759
00:33:58,036 --> 00:34:01,039
"When you feel like
caressing it, playing with it,
760
00:34:01,126 --> 00:34:03,258
the girl resembles a bunny."
761
00:34:03,389 --> 00:34:06,174
"The sex that we fight for
is innocent sex.
762
00:34:06,305 --> 00:34:08,437
Anybody can join."
763
00:34:08,524 --> 00:34:09,612
"Consider the girl
we made popular--
764
00:34:09,699 --> 00:34:11,049
the Playmate of the Month.
765
00:34:11,136 --> 00:34:12,789
She is never sophisticated,
766
00:34:12,876 --> 00:34:15,749
the girl you cannot
really have."
767
00:34:15,879 --> 00:34:19,970
"She is
a young, healthy, simple girl.
768
00:34:20,058 --> 00:34:22,843
The girl next door."
769
00:34:22,930 --> 00:34:24,279
"We are not interested
770
00:34:24,366 --> 00:34:26,325
in the mysterious,
difficult woman."
771
00:34:26,412 --> 00:34:29,023
"The Playboy girl has no lace,
no underwear.
772
00:34:29,110 --> 00:34:34,898
She's naked, well washed
with soap and water...
773
00:34:34,985 --> 00:34:38,772
and she's happy."
774
00:34:38,859 --> 00:34:41,296
And it's why he chose
certain girls.
775
00:34:41,427 --> 00:34:44,038
If you're too difficult
and too much trouble...
776
00:34:44,125 --> 00:34:45,822
- You're out of there.
- ...you're out of there.
777
00:34:45,953 --> 00:34:47,868
Why do you think that was,
Dr. Kate?
778
00:34:47,955 --> 00:34:50,392
Majority of predators, again,
are not going to go into their--
779
00:34:50,479 --> 00:34:53,830
their party and start being
abusive in front of people,
780
00:34:53,917 --> 00:34:56,659
because they need
to maintain this image
781
00:34:56,746 --> 00:35:01,186
of being the trustworthy, safe,
smart, kind, empowering host.
782
00:35:01,273 --> 00:35:02,361
The women who have come forward
with these stories
783
00:35:02,491 --> 00:35:05,233
were very, very young,
784
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,105
and there's a naivete
that comes with that
785
00:35:07,192 --> 00:35:09,716
no matter how old a soul
you might be.
786
00:35:09,803 --> 00:35:12,327
Predators--they don't come
with a bulletin board that says,
787
00:35:12,458 --> 00:35:14,024
"Here's how I'm gonna hurt you."
- Yeah.
788
00:35:14,112 --> 00:35:17,071
They go out of their way
to convince you
789
00:35:17,158 --> 00:35:19,900
that they are safe and that
there's a special bond here.
790
00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:21,858
Here's another one.
791
00:35:21,945 --> 00:35:26,080
Why didn't these women
report these abuses earlier?
792
00:35:26,211 --> 00:35:31,129
I didn't want people to look
at me and think, "You did what?"
793
00:35:31,259 --> 00:35:33,131
[stammers] I didn't want--
I didn't want them to look at me
794
00:35:33,218 --> 00:35:34,871
and think that I was dirty.
795
00:35:35,002 --> 00:35:37,396
They fear they're
not going to be believed,
796
00:35:37,483 --> 00:35:39,920
which was the case
for many of the women
797
00:35:40,007 --> 00:35:41,748
who have talked about it now,
798
00:35:41,835 --> 00:35:43,663
and they do feel like
they were at fault
799
00:35:43,793 --> 00:35:45,447
or somehow brought it upon themselves,
800
00:35:45,534 --> 00:35:47,710
which is absolutely not true,
801
00:35:47,797 --> 00:35:50,148
but that's how many predators
make them feel.
802
00:35:50,278 --> 00:35:53,716
One of the interesting things
as we've seen the journey
803
00:35:53,803 --> 00:35:55,588
of so many of these women
who have come forward,
804
00:35:55,675 --> 00:35:57,416
women have experienced
these buried memories.
805
00:35:57,503 --> 00:35:59,244
Mm-hmm.
806
00:35:59,331 --> 00:36:01,246
Repression is our number one
defense mechanism,
807
00:36:01,333 --> 00:36:02,899
so when things are scary,
808
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:06,816
our mind works overtime
to keep them out of view,
809
00:36:06,903 --> 00:36:08,905
and as we see different things
810
00:36:09,036 --> 00:36:10,820
that remind us
of that experience,
811
00:36:10,907 --> 00:36:12,474
sometime those memories
812
00:36:12,561 --> 00:36:15,390
can come flooding back
really intrusively,
813
00:36:15,477 --> 00:36:17,392
um, and they can be overwhelming.
814
00:36:17,523 --> 00:36:20,743
In my case, this bothers me
to this day.
815
00:36:20,830 --> 00:36:23,181
Occasionally, I would get
a letter from a woman.
816
00:36:23,268 --> 00:36:25,400
I don't know if you ever got
the wives writing you letters,
817
00:36:25,487 --> 00:36:28,273
saying things like, "You know,
my husband just thinks
818
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,145
you're the most beautiful woman
in the world,
819
00:36:31,232 --> 00:36:33,669
and you know, could you give me
any kind of tips?
820
00:36:33,756 --> 00:36:36,063
Because, you know,
I wanna look like you."
821
00:36:36,194 --> 00:36:38,631
I'm like, "Okay,
you wanna look like me?
822
00:36:38,718 --> 00:36:42,374
Then hire a lighting specialist,
get, um, someone
823
00:36:42,461 --> 00:36:44,680
that can spend three hours
on makeup,
824
00:36:44,811 --> 00:36:48,380
spend $10,000 on a photographer.
You'll look just like me."
825
00:36:50,077 --> 00:36:53,167
You never saw yourself look
of so pretty.ion.
826
00:36:53,254 --> 00:36:55,778
It wasn't like people snapped
six pictures,
827
00:36:55,909 --> 00:36:57,345
and those six pictures ended up
in the magazines.
828
00:36:57,432 --> 00:36:59,739
- [laughs] No.
- No.
829
00:36:59,869 --> 00:37:01,262
I remember adding up
the rolls of film,
830
00:37:01,349 --> 00:37:04,831
and I came up
with 3,000 pictures
831
00:37:04,918 --> 00:37:07,399
for my centerfold.
832
00:37:07,486 --> 00:37:09,227
Of all of those images
that you shot,
833
00:37:09,314 --> 00:37:11,751
where did the rest
of those images go
834
00:37:11,838 --> 00:37:13,187
that didn't go in "Playboy"?
835
00:37:13,318 --> 00:37:15,494
- Who knows? I--
- I know.
836
00:37:15,581 --> 00:37:16,495
Do you?
837
00:37:16,625 --> 00:37:19,237
- You don't know?
- No.
838
00:37:19,367 --> 00:37:21,500
They're on dirty porn sites.
839
00:37:21,587 --> 00:37:23,110
♪
840
00:37:28,028 --> 00:37:29,943
After significant
financial losses,
841
00:37:30,030 --> 00:37:32,946
in 2011, Playboy Enterprises
sold Playboy assets
842
00:37:33,033 --> 00:37:35,514
to a company called MindGeek,
843
00:37:35,601 --> 00:37:39,039
and since then,
a lot of former Playmates
844
00:37:39,126 --> 00:37:43,957
have seen their explicit images
on porn sites--
845
00:37:44,044 --> 00:37:48,788
places that they never believed
their images would end up.
846
00:37:48,875 --> 00:37:52,313
What you're telling me is that
you're not in control
847
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,880
of those images.
- Oh, no, not at all,
848
00:37:54,010 --> 00:37:56,186
and--and no woman deserves
to be on a porn site
849
00:37:56,274 --> 00:37:58,058
unless she wants to be.
850
00:37:58,145 --> 00:37:59,973
I can see you're so upset, Susie.
851
00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:02,845
Well, this is
very new information.
852
00:38:02,976 --> 00:38:05,544
- I'm sorry. I thought you knew.
- I didn't.
853
00:38:05,631 --> 00:38:08,416
- This is news to me.
- Our images are used.
854
00:38:08,547 --> 00:38:12,986
We are used as carnival barkers
to lure people in.
855
00:38:13,073 --> 00:38:15,467
There are images, and our names
are on these sites,
856
00:38:15,597 --> 00:38:17,556
and it looks like
we're endorsing this.
857
00:38:17,643 --> 00:38:19,558
What?
858
00:38:19,645 --> 00:38:21,211
They've not only sold
our beautiful images.
859
00:38:21,299 --> 00:38:23,344
They sold our outtakes.
860
00:38:23,475 --> 00:38:25,215
What?!
861
00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:27,000
Why are the outtakes
so different
862
00:38:27,130 --> 00:38:29,785
than what ends up
in the magazine?
863
00:38:29,872 --> 00:38:32,484
Why would you be okay
with being nude in the magazine
864
00:38:32,614 --> 00:38:36,488
but not okay with these outtakes
being out there in the internet?
865
00:38:36,618 --> 00:38:38,751
- They're graphic.
- They're graphic.
866
00:38:38,881 --> 00:38:41,536
Uh, I was told that my pictures
were being revered as art.
867
00:38:41,667 --> 00:38:43,495
Yeah.
868
00:38:43,582 --> 00:38:46,062
This is your private,
most intimate part of yourself,
869
00:38:46,149 --> 00:38:48,282
and to have that
violated like that,
870
00:38:48,369 --> 00:38:52,199
our images being soiled
and our legacies...
871
00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:53,418
Did you have a lawyer with you, Susie,
872
00:38:53,505 --> 00:38:54,984
when you signed a contract?
- No!
873
00:38:55,071 --> 00:38:58,248
First of all, what 19-year-oldcan afford a lawyer?
874
00:38:58,379 --> 00:39:00,294
- Yeah.
- I was in the makeup chair,
875
00:39:00,425 --> 00:39:02,427
and I was handed something
saying, "Sign this."
876
00:39:02,514 --> 00:39:04,559
Yep. Yep.
877
00:39:04,646 --> 00:39:07,519
- I didn't--
- I didn't even have the--the time to read it.
878
00:39:07,606 --> 00:39:10,348
You had your clothes off.
You were about ready to go on.
879
00:39:10,435 --> 00:39:12,915
- You're--
- You're nervous, and they stuff it to you like...
880
00:39:13,002 --> 00:39:14,700
- Yep.
- ...like they're handing you
881
00:39:14,787 --> 00:39:16,919
a birthday card that everybody's
signing for the boss.
882
00:39:17,006 --> 00:39:18,530
And you signed it,
and it was gone,
883
00:39:18,617 --> 00:39:21,315
and you never saw it again.
884
00:39:21,446 --> 00:39:23,056
They may have had
the legal right to do this,
885
00:39:23,143 --> 00:39:25,101
but they don't--
morally, it is so wrong.
886
00:39:25,232 --> 00:39:26,929
♪
887
00:39:27,016 --> 00:39:30,585
His promise was to always
protect us and keep us
888
00:39:30,672 --> 00:39:34,546
within the framework
of Girl Next Door.
889
00:39:34,633 --> 00:39:39,507
He lied. The Playboy contract
gave Hefner and Playboy
890
00:39:39,638 --> 00:39:42,684
the right to use the photos
and the filming
891
00:39:42,771 --> 00:39:47,341
in any media that he saw fit.
892
00:39:47,428 --> 00:39:49,343
HEFNER: Much of what began
with the magazine
893
00:39:49,474 --> 00:39:51,258
has expanded now
to the internet.
894
00:39:51,389 --> 00:39:53,565
It's just a tremendous,
exciting time.
895
00:39:53,695 --> 00:39:55,784
My name is attached
to every porn site
896
00:39:55,915 --> 00:39:57,307
you can imagine.
897
00:39:57,395 --> 00:39:59,614
That's bull[bleep].
898
00:39:59,745 --> 00:40:02,835
They just opened the floodgates
and let 'em go.
899
00:40:02,922 --> 00:40:06,882
And Hef didn't respect
his girlfriends' photos either.
900
00:40:06,969 --> 00:40:09,363
Even Hefner's private party
photos have somehow leaked.
901
00:40:09,494 --> 00:40:11,626
When you would go out with Hef,
902
00:40:11,713 --> 00:40:13,933
he's taking all kinds of
naked pictures of these women,
903
00:40:14,063 --> 00:40:16,414
when we're wasted
out of our minds,
904
00:40:16,501 --> 00:40:19,547
and he would print out, like,
eight copies
905
00:40:19,678 --> 00:40:21,244
for him and all the women.
906
00:40:21,331 --> 00:40:23,856
You would pass them around.
It's just gross.
907
00:40:23,943 --> 00:40:26,162
There was just this mountain
of revenge porn
908
00:40:26,249 --> 00:40:28,208
just waiting to come out.
909
00:40:28,295 --> 00:40:31,907
After Holly's episode,
Hefner's widow Crystal wrote,
910
00:40:31,994 --> 00:40:34,083
"I found thousands of those
disposable camera photos
911
00:40:34,214 --> 00:40:35,998
you are talking about, Holly.
912
00:40:36,085 --> 00:40:38,218
I immediately ripped them up
and destroyed
913
00:40:38,305 --> 00:40:41,047
every single one of them
for you
914
00:40:41,134 --> 00:40:42,918
and the countless other women
in them.
915
00:40:43,005 --> 00:40:44,311
They're gone."
916
00:40:44,442 --> 00:40:46,574
What do you want women
at home right now
917
00:40:46,705 --> 00:40:50,665
that are sharing
these experiences to do next?
918
00:40:50,752 --> 00:40:52,972
Well, first of all, I want them
to know it's not their fault.
919
00:40:53,102 --> 00:40:55,844
It's not their fault.
It's his.
920
00:40:55,975 --> 00:40:59,674
And, uh, I hope
that they come forward,
921
00:40:59,805 --> 00:41:01,067
because united,
we can make a difference.
922
00:41:01,154 --> 00:41:02,547
- That's right.
- We can make a difference.
923
00:41:02,677 --> 00:41:04,679
I mean, there's just a few of us
right now...
924
00:41:04,766 --> 00:41:05,811
- Mm-hmm.
- ...that are talking openly
925
00:41:05,898 --> 00:41:09,684
about really embarrassing stuff.-Yeah.
926
00:41:09,815 --> 00:41:12,295
Audrey said that she didn't want
to let Hugh Hefner
927
00:41:12,382 --> 00:41:13,819
get away with it.
- Yeah. Yeah.
928
00:41:13,949 --> 00:41:14,950
- That's why she's here.
- Uh-huh.
929
00:41:16,256 --> 00:41:17,997
- Oh, yeah,]
- Doethat's exactly right.ou?
930
00:41:18,127 --> 00:41:19,520
He cannot get away with this.
931
00:41:19,651 --> 00:41:21,827
You don't want
the next generation
932
00:41:21,914 --> 00:41:23,263
of young women to think that
that was okay and he was okay.
933
00:41:23,393 --> 00:41:25,004
Yeah, and so they'll fall
for the next guy...
934
00:41:25,091 --> 00:41:26,396
- Mm-hmm.
- ...who gives them these lines
935
00:41:26,484 --> 00:41:30,575
and you start saying,
"No, this isn't right."
936
00:41:30,662 --> 00:41:35,580
that's watching this and--
and give a final message?
937
00:41:35,667 --> 00:41:38,278
It's time for them to stand up
for their daughters
938
00:41:38,365 --> 00:41:40,715
so that it won't happen to them.
939
00:41:40,802 --> 00:41:43,631
They need to, uh,
take their power back,
940
00:41:43,718 --> 00:41:47,679
I think in order to become fully
who they were supposed to be.
941
00:41:47,809 --> 00:41:51,160
We really need to stop
idolizing a man
942
00:41:51,247 --> 00:41:55,295
who I can tell you was a rapist.
943
00:41:55,382 --> 00:41:56,644
I don't need it to sign
any legal documents.
944
00:41:56,775 --> 00:41:58,690
That's my testimony.
945
00:41:58,777 --> 00:42:01,562
We're not the bad guys here.
946
00:42:01,649 --> 00:42:03,433
We didn't do these awful things.
He did.
947
00:42:03,521 --> 00:42:06,524
We're not rewriting history.
We're just writing it.
948
00:42:06,611 --> 00:42:08,395
- Yeah.
- And we're never been allowed
949
00:42:08,482 --> 00:42:10,440
to tell our story,
and it's our time.
950
00:42:10,528 --> 00:42:12,051
♪
951
00:42:12,138 --> 00:42:14,053
We are strong.
952
00:42:14,140 --> 00:42:15,271
[laughter]
953
00:42:15,358 --> 00:42:17,230
♪
71899
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